and to stop the aduersaries mouth that hee maie haue no thing further to replie I haue according to Tertullians rule endevored to make truth to vse all her strength I haue taken time conuenient to levie such troupes and bands that I maie not need to doubt of the victorie compare these places togither and tell mee whether they bee not plaine contradictorie to handle questions positiuelie and brieflie And to treate of them so fullie and in such exquisite manner that to the verie aduersarie nothing should be left to replie there he wrote that hee tooke convenient leasure to leavie such troupes and bandes that hee needed not to doubt of victory here having seene his said troupes and bands harassed and defeated hee is of another mind and vpon better advise acknowledgeth that his former furniture was slender and that hee handled the matter but superficiallie whether of these should the good Reader beleeue both hee cannot being so contrarie the one to the other yet being one and the same great Doctor that hath sett downe both in print and recomended both to his reader he may hap to stagger which of them he is to take for true M. Abbot so highlie magnified there his vttermost endevor to discusse those matters plentifullie and exactly that he left to himself here no colour for this poore excuse which he cometh in withall of handling these questions positiuely well if the maister of the worke himself surveying it better ouer vpon my aduertisment do thinke his former arguments and answeres which then he tooke to bee compleate and insoluble to bee both slender and feeble I make no doubt but that the discreet reader will doe him so much honor and credit as to follow his iudgmeÌ„t therin and to esteeme no better of them then hee himself doth that fauoureth them most and should know them best surelie mee thinkes it must needes be a sufficient wrning to anie man to beware how hee beleeueth him who doth not beleeue himself in his former writings Now to that bigge bragge of his that hee hath in a brief advertisment trowneed mee terribly like a Saturnian frowning angrie scholemaister scourged me accordinglie God bee thanked his words be but wind for the poore scholler so piteously whipped by him feeles no paine at all But what meant hee to hide that Cholericke pamphlet of his written in more hast belike then good speede in such a corner that a man must ride to the latter end of the third part of his long tedious bookes ere he can find it out well sith it hath pleased him to range it in that place so farr out of the waie he cannot bee offended that I do not answere it till I come thither in the meane season let the iudicious reader take a scantling by this my answere vnto his worke of longer meditation how easilie that short pamphlett written both in hast and in passion maie bee answered M. AB BVT in that reproofe of his verie litle it is that hee hath said for iustifying what hee himself had before written not being able in deed to defend any one pointe therof onelie hee found some what to cavill concerning my debating of the name Catholike and the comparison I made betwixt the old and new Roman church and therof as touching the matter in substance he hath framed his booke W. B. VVhat he should saie or doe that dealeth with such a shameles writer I assure thee good Reader I do not well know my booke is extant and in manie mens hands as he cannot bee ignorant Let them all or whosoeuer els pleaseth to reade it be iudges betwene vs whether from the verie preface vnto the end of my booâ—â— I doe any thing els then pleade in iustification of what I had before written putting downe word by word first what exception M. Abbot had taken against the same then answering directlie to euery pointe and parcell therof must he not then if any grace be left in him blush at these his words that I said very little for iustifieing what I had before written where more is saied to that very purpose I think then hee wil be well able to answere these seaven yeeres he that in the Entrie of his booke sticketh not to tell such grosse tales what credit doth he deserue in the residue he confesseth that I said something of the namâ— Catholike and of his comparison betwene the old and new Roman church which is true but when he signifieth that therof in substance my whole booke was framed he goeth about to deceiue and that very grosly for besides sundrie other matters I treated of these very three points in particuler which M. Abbot pretends to be most pertinent to his purpose To wit the first that Saint Paule both in his Epistle to the Romanes and in the rest doth teach most branches of the Romane doctrine which is handled from the page of my booke 134. vnto 149. The secoÌ„d that so did also some of the most holie best learned ancient Bishops of Rome froÌ„ p. 149. vnto p. 219. And as plainly against the third point I declared that not so much as one heresie condeÌ„ned of old is by the moderne church of Rome reviued or countenanced but that the protestants do in expresse tearmes revive boulster out and vphold manie old rotten errours and heresies recorded and condemned for such by the most sound sincere and Iuditiouse witnesses of the primitiue church S. Augustin Sainct Ambrose Sainct Hierome S. Epiphanius and others see the page 251. and manie after all which being to bee found most certain and true with a wett finger as they saie by turning onlie to the places quoted the reader if he haue any care to find out the truth and to avoid errors will I hope take notice at the length of M. Abbots most palpable and notorious leasings who would make him beleeve that there were nothing of substaÌ„ce in my booke of anie of those matters R. ABBOT TO this therfore I haue addressed my description of the ancient Roman Catholike forbearing that more orderlie course which I had intended for the performance of this worke and chosing rather to follow him step by step as formerlie I haue done onlie beginning where he cometh to the purpose and leaving all his vagaries and affected discourses to hee more briefly touched in the end of all W. B. YOV may here discouer why M. Abbot was bold to straine a point and to saie that I only touched the name Catholike and that comparison that hee forsooth addressing an answere thervnto might be taken to haue if not proceeded orderly yet to haue spoken to the purpose directly But it being euident and cleare that I handled as well those other three pointes and in the same order as he propounded them everie vnderstanding man may perceaue that his purpose was rather to shift from orderly proceeding and to thrust out some such stuffe as he had ready for the present to entertaine his favorable
Etenim cum hinc ob consilij maturitatem longam maximarum rerum experientiam prope Regem ad maxima Reipub. negotia peragenda sedere compellimini illinc vero propter senilem infirmitatem amplissimam vestram prouinciam peragrare quomodo se quisque suo in munere gerat perlustrare non possetis adiutorem vobis elegistis nobilissimum Dominum D. Franciscum de Harlay virum omnium virtutum laude florentem qui ex illustri ortus familia inter magnates sanè si voluisset spleÌ„dide viuere potuisset sed ab ineunte aetate saeculi pompis nuncium remittens in altissimarum rerum contemplationem mentem suam tanto studio tantaque ingenij foelicitate intendit vt non in Latinis modo Graecis literis sed in omni scientiarum genere tam miros breui tempore fecerit progressus vt inter grauissimos Theologos Parisienses iuuenis summa cum laude professus sit qui rerum etiam occultarum cognitioni raram quandam prudentiam coniungens ad res magnas sacras eximiè gerendas admodum habeatur idoneus Hic talis ac tantus iuuenis vestram sustinens personam ac grauiore vestro illustratus consilio gregem vestâ—um vigilantissimè inspiciet omnia quae ab boni Pontificis munus spectare intelligit prudentissime administrabit Quum igitur prouinciam nobis proximam ab Illustrissima D. vestra adeo omni ex parte excellenter gubernari perspexerimus mirum videri non debet si nos qui omni proprij Episcopi auxilio penitus destituimur ad tanti Archiepiscopi patrocinium confugiamus Itaque humillimè ab Illustrissima vestra Amplitudine petimus vt in suam nos clientelam benigne admittere libellum hunc perpetui nostri erga Illustrissimam D. vestram obsequij quasi arrhabonem recipere dignetur Deumque Opt. Max. quotidie rogabimus vt Illustrissimam D. vestram ecclesiae suae quam diutissime incolumem conseruet Parisiis xxi Nouembris Anno Domini 1614. AN ANSVVERE VNTO M R ABBOTS EPISTLE DEDICAtorie GOOD Christian reader I being prisoner by the gatehouse in westminster when Mr. R. Abbots last booke intituled the true ancient Roman Catholike came forth against mee was you may be sure wel inough looked vnto for writing then any replie Since my enlargement I was a long time occupied partlye in flanders partlye in Paris about ordinary busines well knowen to many so that I had small respite to reade ouer that which M. Abbots had written against mee At leÌ„gth coming to haue better leasure albeit I haue neuer since bin free from the same care and not willing to spend my spare time idly but to set in haÌ„d with some peece of worke I was by my graue and vnderstanding frinds advised to begin with a confutation of the same booke as coming forth latest and being indeed the only booke wich M. Abbot had labored in defence of himself against mee I at my louing frinds instaÌ„ce perusing ouer that booke more diligentlie found it fuller of words tauntes and cauills thaÌ„ of weightie and sound matter and would therfore rather haue made choise of some other booke of more importance not making anie great reckning of his vntrue imputations and bitter speeches against my self bicause the most honorable prelates of the primitiue Church and best deserving Doctors whose bookes I am not Worthie to carrie after them writing against bitter and broadmouthed Heretikes never lightlie escaped better cheape for what these mild hornets wanted in sound reasonnig that they were wont to supplie in foule railing My kind frinds replied that how litle account soeuer I made of mine owne interest yet M. Abbot being now growen a maÌ„ of name and chosen for the divinitie reader in the famous vniuersitie of Oxford that ought not to bee contemned which hee and his frinds deemed worthie the print Besides he pretendeth it to bee a peece of great price long premeditated and esteemed by him a mater worthie a large treatise and therfore not to bee lett passe as a thing of naught without an answer whervpon in part and withall to iustifie that in my booke which hee catcheth at as least iustifiable belike for he doth not answere it orderlie as it lieth though it were but a litle one but picketh out certen parcelles I in fine resolued to examine brieflie the weight and worth of that his booke which hee surnameth à counterproofe not vnproperlie bicause hee doth in it verie often hunt the counter as they say that is rather runne vp and downe forward and backward turne this waie and that waie verie idly and impertinently then fall to any serious proofe or pursue the points in questioÌ„ directlie Notwithstanding I will not deale with M. Abbot after such a hafting and abrupt manner as hee doth with mee by cutting of at the first clapp fowerscore eight pages of my small discourse without amy word of auswere therunto mangling also the middle of it and leauing out a great part of the latter end but will begin with him at his Epistle Dedicatory and thenceforth prosecute it orderlie as it lies not omitting by the way anie matter of moment though I meane not to sett downe his whole text word by word bicause that would cost mee more the printing then it is worth by agreat deale And wee here in banishment haue not so much spare monie but the summe and substance of all hee handleth shal bee sincerely related as the iudicious and vpright Reader if hee please to conferre this my answere with that his booke shall easilie perceiue Having in few words shewed the reasons that moued mee to vndergoe this worke and the method that I meane to obserue therin without anie further preface I will presentlie come to M. Abbots Epistle Dedicatorie in the first entrie wherof hee seemes to plaie the triuant and for want either of iudgment or of fitter inuention to fall into a faultie Exordium by the skilfull in that art called Commune comon which his aduerse party maie as well if not better vse against himselfe then hee doth against his aduersarie Neither needes it anie other answer but a plaine returne of the same wordes with a verie little alteration Let vs trie whether M. Abbots proeme proposed against vs will not in the iudgement of an indifferent Reader serue for vs against them Thus it begmneth Mr. Abbots text turned against his ovvne partie MOST gratious and renowmed prince such is the malice and furie of Antichrist and his army of priestes as Gregorie calleth theÌ„ in oppugning the Religion and faith of Christ Greg lib. 4. Ep. 38. as giueth cause to vs that fight for Christ to stand continuallie vpon our guard and to be readie still in armes to entertaine the assaultes that are made continuallie against vs. W. B. THE first staffe of this wartier like sentence bicause it hath in it the names of Antichrist and Priests maie at the first blush seeme to some protestantes to hitt vs but
for whether the church of Rome bee the Catholike church or no the faith which his Majestie embraceth cannot bee Catholike vnles it bee that which either hath been or now is spred ouer all the world therfore no man can deny but that it had been a more direct and speedie course to have proved their owne church to bee Catholike then to goe about to disprove the church of Rome to bee Catholike for let vs suppose that which M. Abbot would have though it bee most vntrue that the church of Rome were not the Catholike church Doth it thervpoÌ„ follow that the church of England is Catholike nothing lesse for there have been and are manie erring no Catholike congregations by the consent of all men different and dissenting from the church of Rome as for example were of old the Arrians the Donatists Macedonians and att this time bee the Trinitarians Anabaptists and such like supposing then the church of Rome not to bee Catholike and that the English church doth not agree with the said church may it not neverthelesse bee some other erronious congregation that is faâ—r enough of froÌ„ being Catholike there being in the world so manie other of that bad marke and stampe It must needes then follow that M. Abbot beginning with the church of Rome neither tooke a speedie and direct nor yet a sure course to prove his maiesties faith to bee Catholike M. Abbot in his owne excuse saith that to prove his maiesties faith to bee Catholike he must needes declare what the Catholike church was bicause of the Catholike church it is that the faith is called the Catholike faith This I admitt for good doctrine and do desire the Reader to beare it well in mind that the Catholike faith must needes bee sought for in the Catholike church and cannot be found out before wee haue the Catholike church to teach it vs. because as M. Abbot affirmeth heere of the Catholike church it is that the faith is called the Catholike faith well go on good Sir I grant that you did well to declare what was the Catholike faith and what was the Catholike church too But having declared what was the Catholike church and faith why did you not go in haÌ„d to proue your English faith that his maiestie maintaineth or your English church which hee vpholdeth to bee that same true Catholick church To saie that that stumbling blocke to witt that the church of Rome was the Catholike church was first to be removed out of the way will not serve the turne for that was not necessary when as the other if it had been true might haue been performed by it self without any mention made of the church of Rome And if your fingers itched to haue a fling at the church of Rome would it not haue been more seemly and decent first to haue confirmed your owne faith to bee Catholike which you tooke in hand then having layed that fouÌ„dation to haue declared that the faith of Rome was not Catholike wherfore I did neither idly nor preposterously as you write require so much att your hands but verie preposterously do you proceede and beyond all measure extravagantly that having spoken somewhat to declare what the Catholike church was and that the church of Rome was not that Catholike church do afterwards run through seaven or eight questions more and make an end of your booke too before you come to take one chapter to prove that your English church is the Catholike church or that your English faith is the Catholike faith Is not this to forgett your self in the highest degree that is possible to institute a treatise to prove his maiesties faith to bee Catholike and to professe in the beginning of it that to find out the Catholike faith wee must first find out the Catholike church which being soone found out and agreed vpon to bee that which is spredd over all the world after wardes in all the ensuing discourse not to haue one chapter to prove the English church or faith to bee spred all the world over was not this vtterly to leese himself and to leave his reader as it were in the middle of a maze Pervse gentle reader the contents of all the chapters of M. Abbots booke which bee fowreteene in number thou shalt not find one of them so much as pretend to prove directly the faith of England to have been dilated into all countries the first is that the church of Rome doth vainely pretend to bee the Catholike church the second consisteth of a comparison betweene the Papists and the Donatists the third is about the Papists abuse of the name Catholike the fourth that the church before Christ was a part of the Catholike church and that the old and new testament do not differ in substance of faith The fift that religion cannot satly bee grounded vpon the example of fathers and forefathers the sixth that the reasons of popery are not vrgent and forcible The seventh of the florishing and best state of the church of Rome and of the fulnes of doctrine contayned in Saint Pauls Epistle to the Romanes of Idolatry in worstipping of Saints The eighth of iustification before God The ninth of iustification before man The tenth that eternall life cannot bee purchased by meritt The eleaventh the first motion of concupiscence is sinne The twelfth that the spirit giues witnes to the faithfull that they bee the sonnes of God The 13. that good workes are not meritorious of life to come The 14. that the Epistles of Saint Paul are loosely alleaged by the papists lo here is the end of the booke and as a man may well saie finis ante principium a conclusion of the worke before he begin to handle the principall point in question to witt whether that faith which his Maiestie embraceth bee the Catholike faith that is whether at any time it hath been receiued in all Christian countries so that in one word this booke of M. Abbots may bee answered with a nihil dicit as our comÌ„on lawiers tearme it that is hee hath said iust nothing to that which hee vndertooke to performe therin for having taken in hand to prove that the faith of the English congregation is Catholike and consequently that it hath been vniversally planted in all nations now to let that stand a cooling and to argue that the church of Rome is not the Catholike church but rather Donasticall and that it abuseth the name Catholike that the church in old father Abrahams daies was a part of the Catholike church and such other impertinent questions was it not rather as one maie say to lead a wild Goose chase and to wander vp and downe very strangelie then to speake to the point of the question propounded And albeit it draw some what neerer the matter to go about to proue the Protestants doctrine to be more conformable vnto the old and new Testament then the doctrine of the Catholiks yet that is a severall distinct question
it were he granteth that it is in deed a thing greatly to be observed yet that he may not seeme therby to be driven to a dumb blank he saies That it is as greatly to be noted that the sentence of no bishop of Rome was anciently holden sufficient for the deciding of a question of faith except the same were confirmed by a generall councell which his assertion is not true as I will presently prove after I haue disproued his seely proofe therof which is Leo epist 61. Idem Epist 61. that Leo the great doth make mention of an Epistle of his against the heresy of Eutiches sent to be confirmed by the vniuersall assent of the whole Synode Item he nameth certain other writings of his as having the confirmation of the generall councell added thervnto And that he sent Deputies vnto the generall councell of Ephesus by sentence in common to decree with the rest what should bee pleasing to god Is not this a poore proof out of the fact of one pope to gather a common law for all popes one pope forsooth had some sentences of his cōfirmed by a generall coūcell therfore neither he nor any other could giue any sētēce availeable vnles it were confirmed by a generall councell what an absurd paralogisme is this true it is that popes do commonly when there is any generall councell called send their legates thither to bee the presidents of the councell and vse to deliuer to them their owne opinions also in manner of instructions partly to direct the councell and in part also that they may be more maturely and thorowly discussed and ratified by the same councell not that they could not many times sufficiently otherwise with the assistance of their owne learned councell at home or of some one province define what were to bee beleeued and holden but for that matters so fully sifted and debated as they are in a generall councell may with more facility and fuller applause be receiued of all persons through the whole world And namely of them that haue been deceiued by heretikes who do generally seeke to make the sea of Rome so odious to their followers that they will not like of any thing that comes from Rome alone be it never so true and cleere For the sake of such abused soules specially there needs the Assembly of generall councells though the Popes sentence without them were neuer so well assured To that alleaged here by M. Abbot out of the councels of Chalcedon and Africk answer was made before Now that many heresies haue been extinguished by the popes of Rome with the aid of provinciall councels without the helpe of any generall is most manifest to them that are conversant in the ancient histories of the church and therfore M. Abbot who affirmes the contrary doth nothing els than bewray his great ignorance in antiquity Their error that thaught those who were baptised of heretikes to be rebaptised by Catholiks August l. 5 de baptismo co donat c. 23. was by Pope Stephen the first condemned and without anie generall councell repressed So was the novatian heresie by pope Cornelius as may be gathered out of Eusebius Euseb li. 6. hist ca. 35. The heretike Iovinianus with his adherents were condemned by Siritius and the Clergy of Rome in these words we following the Apostles commaundemēt who holdeth them accursed that preach otherwise then wee had receiued by common consent Siricius apud Ambrosium Epistola 6. Vnde Apostoli secuti praeceptum quia aliter quam accepimus annunciabant Iouinianus Auxentius c. diuinae sententia nostro iudicio in perpetuum damnati extra Ecclesiam remaneant haue condemned and cast out of the church Iovinianus and his companions And writing vnto S. Ambrose and the church of Millan doth say that wee doubt not but your holines will obserue our decree To which S. Ambrose assembled in councell with diuers other Bishops doth give this answere Ibidem Epistola 7. Recognouimus literis sanctitatis tuae boni Pastoris excubias qui fideliter commissam tibi ianuam serues pia solicitudine Christi ouile custodias dignus quem oues domini audiant sequantur et versus finem Itaque Iouinianum Auxentium c. quos sanctitas tua damnauit scias apud nos quoque secundum iudicium tuum esse damnatos That Siricius as a good pastor of Christs fold had done worthily and desired him to assure himself that Iovinianus with his cōplices whom his holines had condemned stood also according to his iudgment condemned with them which S. Austin also intimateth in his second booke of retractation the 22. chapter when he saith Aug. lib. 2. retract ca 22. Huic monstro Iouiniano sancta Ecclesia quae ibi est scilicet Romana fidelissime ac fortissime restitit That monster Iovinianus was by the church of Rome withstood most faithfully and most valiantlie The Pelagian heresie was spred all the world ouer and yet by the Popes of Rome Innocentius the first and Zozimus with the assistance of some provinciall councells without calling any generall councell it was condemned all the world ouer Aug. epist 157. as witnesseth the most faithfull Register of Antiquity Saint Austin in these words That new heresie against the grace of Christ Cuius haeresis vel auctores vel certe acerrimi notissimique suasores cum Pelagius Celestius extitissent Conciliorum Episcopalium vigilantia in adiutorio Saluatoris qui suam tuetur Ecclesiam etiam à duobus venerabilibus Antistitibus Apostolica sedis Papa Innocentio Papa Zozimo nisi correcti etiam egerint poenitentiam toto Christiano orbe damnati sunt De quibus exempla recentium literarum siue quae specialiter ad Asros siue qua vniuersaliter ad omnes Episcopos de memorata sede manarunt vobis curauimus mitti where of Pelagius and Celestius were the Authors or most sharpe defenders by the vigilancie of Episcopall councels in the helpe of our Saviour who doth preserue his church and by two most reverēd prelats of the Apostolicall sea Pope Innocentius and Pope Zozimus are condemned all the Christian world ouer vnles they amend and do penance The Donatists in Africa were finally repressed by Gregorie the great Pope of Rome as it is recorded in his life The instances of these heresies of the Donatists Pelagians Iovinians Novatians and old Anabaptists to omit many others who haue been condemned by the sentence of the Bishops of Rome for heretikes and so taken at length all the world ouer without any decree of generall councell are more then sufficient to cōfront and confound M. Abbots bare annotation as naked and destitute of truth as it is of proof to wit That it was greatly to be obserued that the sentence of no Bishop of Rome was anciently holden sufficient for deciding of a question of faith except the same were confirmed by a generall councell which if he would haue any man