partly vnderstode both by Capâ—â—â—â— letters written to comfort a ministre off Geneua then Wrestling for yt as by Bezas wordes which particularly note one or two partes therof Nether can disagreemeÌ„t of the fauourers thereoff in interpretation of some place signification of some word alteration off some circumstance yf any be hinder this no more then diuers pictures off one face hauing al the same great and principal drawghts can hinder vs from acknowledging the same visage in them al albeit one be more coningly drawn then other haue more liuely and orient couloures then other haue one smal line more or les then other Onles peraduenture men wil be so vnaduised to denie the doctrine off the Gospell to be the same professed at Geneua at Zurick at Witemberg because the professors had in some smaller points their seueral Iudgements Another principall kinde off artillery wherwith the D. leueleth at this wal off church discipline is â—haccusation off Anabaptistry This also as may appeare is taken from the Papistes For when the persequuting off the churche in Fraunce where together with the doctrine this discipline was established was misliked off the Almanes the French to appease them said there vvere none so cruelly handled but Anabaptists and troublesome felovves vvhich vvould ouerthrovv not religion onely but the vvhole order off the commeÌ„ vvealth And althowgh the D. hath in this behalf trauailed mightily and gathered as yt were a heape off stones to throw at vs yet for feare off being conuincted off so manifest vntrwthes he dare not throw one but priuilie and as yt were vnder hand saying he will not accuse any he will not condemne any that is he will forsothe not flea vs him self but hould our legs while other flea vs But he shal neuer so escape the iudgemement off god For yf he were giltie which kept their garments that cast the stones how much more shall he that put stones in their handes althowgh yf we were suche we owght so to be noted that others might take heed off suche detestable heretikes All which false surmises with diuers others of Donatism Papism puratanism We might with one sentence off the holy man Iob haue refuted For so are they not onely vntrw but for the moste parte without al colour of trwth that taking our aduersaries boke off accusations vpon our shoulders and applying them vnto our heades that al might read and see them wee might as off a crovvne or robe haue receiued commendation by them Howbeit because there was some daunger least the D. lofty titles and glittering estate might ether seduce som simple ones or vtterly carie away those whose mindes were forestalled with some preiudice against the cause we maintein I thowght good once at large aÌ„d peece by peece to lay forth the vnworthines of his accusations Now I see there is no end of his vnhonest charges I meane not by further answer in poursuit off his oulde or auoiding his nwe ether weary my selfe or the reader For seing the vntrwth off them is in the eies and eares off all why shoulde I trauaile to stop his Throate which as an open sepulchre off vntrw sumises wil as seemeth neuer with any reasonable answer be filled vp And that yow may haue a taste off his equitie note I beseche yow his answers vnto our defence This is wel said if vnfained These glorious wordes are but mistes to blind the eies off the simple The Anabaptistes would saie the like Verely if they say so they shall deteste them selues with all their wicked phantasies and gyue as sounde a Confession of the trwth as the Doctor can make any But let vs imagin him selfe accused off all these pointes which he surmiseth of vs I would gladly know what he would answer Let him conceiue his purgation as effectually and in as good wordes as he can make al the protestations he can offer him self to what examination he can how easie ys yt for his aduersarie with the same equitie he vseth towardes vs to dashe al. This is wel said but it is fained there was neuer heretike which to hide bis poison pretended not some colour off truth c. And by the grace off God we are as far yea further also as shall appeare from al pointes off Anabaptisme then he But saith he let the like effectes proceding of like causes and in like maner iudge the likelihoode betweene the Anabaptistes and them Truly yf he proue the causes like the controuersie is at an â—â—de And if the searche off the trwth had bene his marke here he would haue begon where the triall is certaine and not off the effectes Which allthowgh they be falsly surmised yet some are suche as maie ensue albeit after another sorte aswell the preaching off the trwth as the publishing off falshood And surely if the Anabaptistes when they rose in Germany had met with suche confuters yt is very like that they now put to flight would haue occupied the greatest part off it But the godlie mynisters assured of a good cawse prouoked to most solemn disputations where all seyng their vanities might learne to deteste them and them selues made to vnderstand their folies might be stricken with shame which might bringe repentance This they did by example off the Godlie learned in times past and off Augustine namely Who prouoketh the Donatistes and Manichies to Disputation in the hearing off all his church This cause therfore if yt should not preuaile by force off trwthe yt must gaine throwghe the indirecte meanes and cowardly fight off the Answerer so far from procuring this trial that he accuseth me as desirous of popular praise because refusing his priuat confeâ—rence as he some where hath affirmed I onely put him in minde of a disputacion Wherto also perteineth that he counteth yt Anabaptistical that this ys propounded in places where the gospell hath bene alredy planted As if there were a fitter place to propounde the Discipline then vvhere the doctrine hathe allredie beene receiued where shoulde the vvall be fitlier made then where the citie is before builded Where the diche caste but where the Orcheyarde is alreadie planted Yf yt had bene preached where was ignorance or small knowledge of the gospell the would haue taken great aduantage for that they might so haue abused the blindnes of their heares to cause them beleue that which those that haue their eyes open could not be brought vnto Now they preache in places vvhere the gospell was planted he will make that also serue for a stepp for his accusation to clime vp by So that howsoeuer we behaue our selues what commoditie off circumstance soeuer we haue the D. hathe suche an engine that he can not onely cause yt not to serue for vs but also make against vs For sure I am no place could haue bene les suspected then London and Cambridge two off the highest hills in all the realme from whence bothe the sounde off yt might
and by the expresse mouthe off God I see not what man coulde put him owte off yt withowte the same authoritie whiche put him in Laste off all it is verie probable that vvhere yt is saide in an other place that Moses stood vp and praied for Aaron then Moses receiued answere what shoulde be doone withe Aaron towchinge his continuance in the ministerie Where yowr glosse in the ende supposeth contrarietie seinge yt settethe downe none I haue not to answere yt may be the A. lawghed vvhen he vvrote that vvherby he requireth sincere dealing in the scriptures For if this be sitting in his mouthe vvhich corrupteth in a manner all he toucheth vvhy should not also a light housewiffe talke of the chastitie off a graue matrone The nexte diuis belonging vnto the 6. Tract off vnpreaching ministers shall there God vvilling be answered Off election off Ministers vn voices or other consente off the people Chap. 4. pag. 155. IF Chrysostome had had anie thinge to saie towching the election off Deacons he shoulde haue spokē vvhen tyme was and when that place was handled Yet for answere the reader maye vnderstand that Chrysost in that place makethe comparison betwen the election in the firste off the Actes and this and sheweth howe the Apostels did otherwise there then here For there they chose two vvhiche they set vpp before the churche So that vvhen Chrysost saithe the Apostels myght haue chosen the deacons yt may be he meaneth they might haue chosen them as they did the two Mathias and Barsabas In whiche choise I haue shewed the consente off the people was required Yff there were but this place whiche the D. citeth I woulde stande vpon this answer but considering that Chrys in another place affirmeth that Peter might haue chosen him selfe which I would not kepe from the knowledge off the reader I will not denie but that Chrysost might haue heere the meaning the D. supposeth Wherto as I can by no meanes agree vpon the reasons both before and after alledged so the D. is not helped For when Chryso commendeth Peter that he did all thinges by the aduise off the churche nothing off his ovvne autoritie nothing vvith dominion When he addeth also that the same was to auoide contention and that nether he nor the reste off the Apostles should be thovvght to chuse off fauour he declareth sufficiently that there is no bishop of that ether authoritie or holines off life vvhich in making the election without consente of the church dooth not bothe laie him selfe and his ministery open to suspiciō of parcialitle and giue occasion off pernicious debates in the churche He shoulde also vnderstande that this proportion is vneuen and that if yt were granted whiche he desyrethe yet he is not where he woulde be For iff it were lawfull for the Apostels indued with extraordinarie giftes off discretion off spirites to chuse yt foloweth not therfore that one Bishopp may doo so And because yt was lawfull for the 12. Apostels to chuse them withe whome they were dailie conuersante therfore it is lawfull for one bishoppe to chuse those whiche he neuer see nor knewe before Before I goo any further yt is to be obserued that althowghe the Ans holde owte in the defense off this cawse off election by the Bishope certeine wordes of learned mē racked from their meaninge and contrarie to the continual practise off the authors yet the trwthe is that as this assertion is the Papistes and Papistes againste the Protestantes so all his principall bothe argumentes and solutions haue bene worde for worde ministred vnto him owte off the bokes off the ranckeste enemyes off the trwthe Yff the reader will see this question diducted at large betwene the catholikes and the papistes let hym reade Hosius and Phigius in thes bokes which I haue noted I will onely note the places whēce the Ans argumētes are fetched with his startinge holes vvherwithe he vvoulde abuse the worlde And firste off all Marsilius a Catholike whome the lorde had stirred vpp to mainteine the trwthe off the Gospell Aboute the time off Pope Iohn the 12. disputinge againste the sole election off the bishope vsethe this reason whiche wee haue heere in hande namelie that forasmuche as the churche chose here Deacons as it appearethe in the Actes therfore yt owghte muche more chuse her mynisters This reason Phigius as the D derideth no more hable to answer yt then he The manifeste wordes off the texte are that Paule and Barnabas ordeined elders by voces neither is there any learned and godlie man browghte or as Iam perswaded can be browghte that euer denied that the churches were in election off their ministers ioyned with Paul and Barn. That Zuingl saithe some were called to the ministerie off the worde by the Apostels onely what is yt to proue that Paule and Barnabas did here in this place ordeine myinisters withowte the voices off the churche yt is well therfore M Zuing. hath expressed whiche the D. hathe vnfaithfully holden backe who translatinge whole pages to no purpose coulde not here aforde vs one poore sentence off the lengthe off two lines The other halfe off the sentence is this As saithe he vvhen by the decree off the Apostels Peter and Iohn vvere sente vnto Samaria Marcke I beseche yow what manner of election this was The Apostels chose two but suche as were approued mynisters before what is this to proue that the byshope maie chuse those whiche were neuer approued or chosen vnto the ministrie The Apostels chose them to goe an embassage whiche shoulde be ended in a fewe daies and what is that to proue that a bishoppe maie chuse to a perpetuall function The Apostels did yt withowte the consente off that churche vnto whiche that matter did not belonge what is that to proue that the bishope maie chuse a minister withowte the consente off that churche whiche that election dothe concerne for that electiō belonged not vnto the churche of Ierusalem where they were if yt had there is no doubte but the Apostels woulde not haue doon yt withowte the cōsente therof I leue here to speake of the difference of bishop and Apostel off twelue and one whiche beinge obserued in the former section needeth no rehersall And as this maketh nothinge for the election off the bishope so yt maketh against that for the whiche this place is browghte For iff maister Zuing. had bene off that iudgemente that Paule and Barnabas did by them selues chuse withowte the churche he woulde likely haue browghte that example cōsideringe that this can not be properly called any election to the Mynistrie whiche was off those which were ministers before But that yow may yet better knowe the D. vnfaithfull dealinge ioined with shameles bouldnes off alledging authoritice I will set downe Maister Zwinglius iudgemente in this cause which he vttereth in diuers places off that booke owte off whiche the D. hathe alledged this but most manifestly within les
For where in his former assertion although not in wordes yet in deed he vtterly condemned the wisedome off God ordeining pastors and Doctors for continuall functions in the church of whom there is no vse if simple reading be as effectuall as preaching that being wrung owt off his handes in that he is compelled to confesse greater efficacy off preaching towardes the vnlearned yet rather thē all this cobweb should be vnweaued he maketh the ministery off preaching voide towardes the learned Wheras the scripture doth not onely generally but particularly and expresly shut vp the saluation off the learned in the meanes off preaching as off the vnlearned But this is a peece off the doctorall diuinity of some in Camebridge which to excuse their shamefull contempt off preaching and to make them a pillow to sleepe on or to pane them an alley to bowle in during sermons in the afternoone shame not to alledge that they cā profit as much in reading the scriptures or an homily owt off Chrysostome in their study as by hearing a sermon in the church Vnto the example off the Eumuche vvhich reading the scripture belieued not vntill he heard Philip preach he answereth that he vnderstood yt not and that he speaketh off an vnderstanding reader Which although it be vntrue the wordes off his former booke being generall withowt so much as the least signification off exception yet it is nothing worth For the cause why he could not vnderstand yt is there assigned for that he had no teacher to shew him the way Wherby followeth not which the Papistes conclude off this place that the people owght not to read the scriptures seing the Eunuch which both knew and confessed that he could not vnderstand withowt a guide exercised him self diligently in reading off them but this followeth that a man can not ordinarily not onely come to saluacion but not so much as to a sufficient knowledge off it withowt preaching Where off infinite examples he saith one is as few as may be yt appeareth this one was to muche for him to answer Now for all the false accusations off ioyning with papistes in despising off reading the scripture c. once heare yowr one proces that yt is yow that strengh then their handes For as in popery by committing the office off preaching especially vnto the beggerly friers and by declaring it more honorable for the bishop to reade a masse then to preach a sermon they set reading in the head and preaching in the taile so yow making simple reading as profitable as preaching hasten after them and if yow keepe the same pase yow haue begon it will not be long or euer yow ouertake them The D. hauing before made simple readers equall with preaching pastors in that he holdeth simple reading as effectuall as preaching heere in making bare reading better then preaching preferreth the readers aboue the preachers But in this later absurdity first as before he woulde make Musculus his pack-horse and therfore brawleth becawse I laied it not vpon Musc so princely is the D. that he would haue his faultes whipped vppon an other mans skin but at least I should haue deuided it between them As if I were matched with Musculus but the truth is that he maketh not for him For he compareth the profit taken of symple reading and off a sermon made of him which endeuoreth to make a glorious shew off eloquence and learning rather then to apply him self to the capacity off the simple which is nothing to that in hand where good reading is cōpared with good preaching And therfore it is ridiculous the D. bringeth of bitter inuectiues and contentious sermons c. compared with orderly reading For in this comparison it were not hard to proue which is blasphemy that yt is better to reade a peece off Lyuy then the bookes off the kinges namely if Lyuy be simply red and the other with interlining and mixture off popishe interpretation If one defending this would for maintenance off his comparison bring this escape would not all men hisse at him this is his refuge also to salue that he saied off homilies red better then sermons preached His other instance off a papist carying preiudice against all preachers and therfore not moued once by their doctrine in which notwithstanding after by reading he is established is insufficient for if the Lord by his vertue shewed throwgh preaching doo conuert men vttenly peruerted and at enmity with all truth and consequently with the ministers theroff how much more will he therby conuert papistes which by doubting whether the gospell be truth or their superstitions haue ground or no cary not that enmyty the other doo which haue no such entrance Then yow muste vnderstand that as in the Sacramētes the Lord doth not alwaies at the same tyme they are ministred worcke by his spirit but chooseth the time that seemeth good to his wisedome so yt is in preaching wherby yt cometh to passe that the spirit of God worcking faith at the time of reading wrought it not by that meanes onely but vsed therunto the help off preaching which went before For as greene wood laied vpō fire and her with many strong blastes as laste set on fire and flaming with one and that a soft blaste is not to be be saied chiefly set on fire with the soft blaste because it wēt immediatly before euen so the word off God blowen by preaching and after sensibly burning in the hearres of the hearers by the meanes off reading immediatly gone before is not so muche to be ascribed vnto reading as preaching Considering that so it might comme to passe which is absurd that contemplacion off the creatures should profit more then reading For wheras the Lord hath seth the print off the moste off his promises and other doctrines in the creatures for example off his fatherly care off prouiding al thinges necessary for his in the prouision for birdes off the ayer and rich array off the lilies off the field yt may comme to passe that that doctrine knowen by meanes off preaching and lying as yt were dead in the heart may after by sight and earnest vewe off the thinges them selues be quickened yet none off iudgement will say that the beholding off the creatures wrrowght more in this then preaching Howbeit if the cases he putteth in this point were true yet he is inexcusable thes plaisters comming a ye are and a half after the wound giuen by such straunge speach which owght to haue gone with yt if peraduenture they might althowgh not heale yet somewhat hide the lothsome rawnes Hytherto perteineth that which he hath disorderly put pag. 176. where he saith that the reading off Saint Paules epistles did the Romanes more good thē preaching which is cōtrary to S. Paules meaning who sheweth that he could not haue the like fruice off his ministery towardes them as off other nations because he was letted to comme and preach vnto
be the easilest caried into all other places and which abounding with knowledge off the gospell were fittest to iudge off the goodnes off the cause Wherin I doubte not but the good hande off Gods direction and the example off the Apostells haue bene considered who that they might haue fuller sheues off the seed of their doctrine preased to the chief and moother cities making their accompte that the mother being won the daughters round abowte vvould be easilier intreated And althowghe yt come to often to pas that there is some Amazias or high preist nere the courte which vseth both his eies to watche that none come thether to disquiet his vnlawfull possession yet forsomuche as it is as impossible to pull the winges off the winde that yt should not blow or shut the windowes off the heauens that they should not raine as to stop that trwth which God in his holy worde hath breathed and doeth raine by the clowdes off his mynistery I dowbt not but the voice off yt is come to the highest and shall haue that fruict in time which God hath disposed off Yf yt should not yet euery faithfull mynister is detter vnto his flocke off the whole trwth learned owt off the worde off God aswell for reioicing their heartes in encrease of knowledg as that therby they might bewail their synnes for want off yt and forthwith be stirred to continuall praier that God would encline the Princes heart and off others in autoritie to gyue yt that defence which apperteineth Nether doe we therefore call vpon the examination off our doctrine as thowgh we feared least our behauiour should be examined or as if yt resembled the Anabaptistes maner of liuing but that I might shew how disorderly the D. goeth to worck For althowgh before the Lord we and I for my part especially as myserable synners hang down our heades and couer our faces yet our behauiour throwgh his grace towching that surmised of vs ys such as we nothing fear but with all indifferent iudgement yt conteineth plentifull remedy against the sting off all suche slaunderous tonges Wise Physicions when the desease is vnknown seeke yt by owtward tokens off pulse vrine c. Yf we had nourished any night or corner doctrine which we whispering in the eares of certeine woulde not haue had come owt of the doores of our priuat houses yt should haue bene accounted to him for wisdom by signes and coniectures to haue inquired into our couert opinions But now seing we haue Fanckly and openly published our iudgementes and as yt were on the Faire and Market daies proclaimed them offering them in scholes in churches by preaching by writing not onely to the tast off the commen people but to the examination of the best learned after al this to inquire by signes and tokens is to seek his aduersary whiche standeth hard by to call for him which is present And yt is as if one to know what iudgement an other is of had rather take his mark by the colour of his coat or tag of his point then by his speache or hand writing And if it were the good will off God I would for this matter he had a window to look into our consciences To make and ende of answer to these surmises whatsoeuer is proper ether to the heresie off Papistes Anabaptistes Donatists or puritanes that wee vtterly condemne vnto the bottomles pit off hell But if amongest the filth of their herises there may be found any good thing as yt were a grain off good corn in a great deal of darnell that wee willingly receiue not as theiree but as the Iues did the holy Arke from the Philistines wherof they were vniust owners For herein yt is trw that is said the sheep must not lay dovvn her fel becavvse she seeth the vvolf somtim clothed vvith yt yea yt may come to pas that the Synaguog off Satan may haue some one thing aâ— somtime with more conuenience then the trw and Catholike churche off Christ Such was the ceremonie off powring water once onely vpon the childe in baptisme vsed with vs and in the moste reformed churches which in some age was vsed onely by those off the Eunomian heresy As for the Answerer let him remember that the iust Iudge liueth before whome if he doe not speedelie repent one day notwithstanding his gloses I accuse none I apply yt to none he muste houlde vp his hand with Satan the Prince off the accusers off the children off God wherunto I doubt not but his own conscience is his Apparitor and hath giuen him summonce And thus much for answer vnto the D. generall partly accusations and partly surmises against the fauourers off the church discipline now propounded There folow particular charges against the autors off the admonition and against me Those against them haue bene answered and the answers so far forth as they touche the cause are in this boke mainteined sauing certein new charges Wherein I dowbt not but they will take yt in good part that I vse silence seing that some of the smaller thinges are such as lie not in my knowledg and some so manifestly vntrw that they need not fear any credit to be gyuen vnto them the D. him selfe as I thinck not belieuing them Of his accusations against me because some haue eie aswel to the speakers as to the thinges spoken I trust yt shall not be greuous yf I answer somthing Especially when in this preface beside other thinges I purpose God willing to Synk nigh half his later book For if one would make suruey off reproches vntrw surmises and false accusations wherwith he hath frawght yt beside a nwe lode which he hath charged the second edition off his first boke with he should I suppose finde nigh one half spent in those wares Wherin he dealeth with me as certein beastes which pursued cast forth behinde them an vntollerable sauour therby to affray their hunters from further chasing them In deed they are very vnpleasant but the good sauour off the trwth and off honest behauiour in thinges he accuseth me off hath by the grace off God so comforted all the senses off my minde that he hath not escaped by this pollicie Some off his accusations touche the cause but the most part touche yt not Off this later kynd one sort are off my maner of liuing â–ª albeit he count yt a childishe kinde off confuting that one should leaue the cause and take him self to the person Here my ministerie is diuerslie accused as that I did not seke for the ordre off priesthood as it is called for that is that he meaneth I should haue done by othe or els departed the Colledge The answer hereto is longer then this treatise may embrace which I am readie to exhibit before him to whom it belongeth because I am prouoked I humbly desire him to receiue the cause But in a word yt ys a meer cauill For the meaning off
the statute off the howse is to prouide that men should not turne their studies to other professions off law c but that there should be to furnish the Colledge off a numbre off preachers off which I was one as sone as I entred Nether was there any dutie of mynisterie which the Colledg could require off me that I was not inabled to doo according to the lawes of the churche off England by vertue off that mynisterie which I had receiued So that the law yt self as that whose meaning was fulfilled euen with my entrie did not require yt Also the corruption off the law or at the least off his interpretation binding men to beg a ministery and therby after a sorte to testifie off them selues that they befit for yt might after knowledg that I owght not to beg it iustly kepe me back By how muche more I were worthie to be condemned if as he accuseth I had ambitiously desired to be the Queenes maiesties diuinitie reader for which I neuer opened lip Yf I had how knoweth he I did yt ambitiously who maketh yt lawful to aske yt So that onles he know my hart my laboring for it yf any had bene is iustified by his diuinity The life I answer to an other not vnlife that I earnestly desired the degree off doctorship Wherin beside that I moued nothing but yelded onely to the request off certein frindes I had before my grace propounded in the scholes the aduise off more than a dosen learned ministers Who considering that I had the office off a Doctorin the vniuersitie were off opinion that for the good they estemed might be done therby I might swalow the fond and idle ceremonies which accompanie yt His fourth is that I haue forsaken the ministerie wherunto I answer as I haue for them whom he likewise chargeth His fift that I my selfe preaching before here and there where I thowght good now condemne yt in others the answer whereof is partly page 45. line 17. off his and partly page 41. line 20. off my boke The last that I refused his conference which is vntrwe For beside that I answered that yt was meet the doctrine I had taught openly shoulde be defended openly and beside that also I went to two off the vniuersitie Doctors to be conferred with I offered my self to his priuat conference which althowgh he had promised yet vnder pretence that I was as he said vncorrigible he would not performe The truth is he offered priuat conference by writing but hauing before experience off his vnfaithfulnes many waies I refused yt And thus muche to his accusations towching as well my comming to and goyng from the ministerie as also off my behauiour in yt Of the most wheroff there are diuers witnesses and off all the Lord him self bothe witnes and iudge whose presence in this defence I set before myne eies Vnles peraduenture that also may seem to appertein hether that by defence off this cause I woulde chuse my selfe the place off my mynistery Wherof I lay euill foundations which teache that no man may place him self but wait for his calling especially when by his doctrine I may feed in euerie pasture and lightlie grasing or taking the vppermost of one streight way goo to an other In the other part of my life after he had thrust me out of the Colledge he accuseth me for going vp and downe doing no good and liuing at other mēs tables that I was not idle I suppose he knoweth to well Whether well occupied or no let it be iudged I liued in deed at other mens tables hauing no hous nor wife of myne own but not without their desire ād with smal delight of mine for feare of euil tonges And althowgh I were not able to requite yt yet towardes some I went abowte yt instructing their children partely in the principles off religion partly in other learning His other accusations beside the cause are off my maner off writing The matter is blamed for that as he saith yt consisteth wholy of other mens notes and collections and that I haue scarce red one off the autors which I haue alledged yea and that I also contēne them namely maister Nowels Catechism And for the forme It is blamed as vndutifull towardes the Archbishops bishops c. namely the Bishop of Salisbury and himselfe especially That off contempt off M. Nowels and other mens workes I detest as intollerable arrogancie The other wherin the question is off great reading I let pas For yf he be learned and I not haue read them all and I scarce one it will easely appear to the learned beside that as I haue said it towcheth not the cause Onely I admonish that he doe yt hereafter with better ground For notwitstanding it is like he hunteth me with moe howndes then I him yet beside those places I confes my selfe to haue receiued he noteth not many and that excepted off Ierome mistaken for Musculus not one trewlie Let vs therfore come to the forme Where in my behauiour towardes the bishop of Salisbury I would gladly know of him what wordes he could haue prescribed me wherby I might more modestly haue dissented from him So that vnles the simple defence of the cause be misbehauiour I am well assured there is no dutie broken For my speches off the Archbishops c. generally yf all should be taken either in this or the former book against their persons which I speak against their offices his accusation should not be altogither vntrew But as condemning these offices or their corruptions I make no conscience to speake contemptuously off them so diuers off the persons which beare them both for their learning ād proof of godlines shewed in times past I will not cease to reuerence vntil which I hope wil not be by open enimitie against a knowne trwth their own consciēces shall think them selues vnworthy And this to an indifferent reader shal suffice for towardes the D. I haue no remedie which expoundeth all duetifull sayinges counterfaict humilitie glorious and Smooth wordes to get credit My dewtie towardes him is accused diuersly of vnbrotherhood vnfaithfulnes wante of good will made heinous by circumstance of periury and vnthankfulnes Wherein I wil not answer that I vsed not you as maister because yow vsed not me as felow but ask yow wherin this breache off duetie consisteth Yf Iowe yow fidelitie Iowe yt more vnto the lorde yf good will the trwth must be preferred yf the master of Trinitie Colledg be a frend the trwth is more Yf yow a brother the trwth owght to be brother sister mother and al. Against what part off trw fidelitie ys yt to reproue him openly by writing which had openly by writing spoken euill off that which I was and am perswaded to be the euerlasting trwth off God and reuiled those which mainteined yt Against what poinct off good will to haue shewed him
treatise off the apparel I haue passed by the causes vvherof assigned by me if they shall not be approued by those to vvhose iudgemeÌ„t I submit my selfe vpon significatioÌ„ off their minde in that behalf I vvill resume yt again in that place vvhere I shall handle the conuenience and inconuenience off the ceremonies off the church vnto vvhich place I vvish I had reserued the most part off that Tractat vvhich in my book ys the first The learned reader I desire that vvhere â— confute some thinges vnvvorthy in his iudgement to be mentioned he vvould gyue that to those that are not so vvel aduaunced Althovvgh I confes that off a nomber off them the consultation vvhether any vvere so rude as not to perceiue them vvithovvt helpe stood me in more then the confutation The reader that vnvvillingly readeth the controuersies betvvene those off the same profession in doctrine I trust shall not lose his trauail if he desire to be confirmed against the errors off the papistes the same in many places vvith the Ansvverers Off all I desire both learned and others that they vvould support my vveaknes vvheresoeuer and in vvhat sort so euer yt shall appear seing I trust it shall be manifest vnto them that in a good cause I haue laboured also to kepe a good conscience For better vnderstanding of the book after yovv are a litle entred yovv shall vvhere I remembred yt finde the doctor althovvgh not alvvaies in so many vvordes â–ª yet in the same sense in a smaller letter the testimonies and that alledged out off my former book and admonition being in a greater Sometimes throvvgh his to muche fondnes and repetition I put onely a vvord or tvvo to gyue the reader to vnderstand that I vvander not vvithovvt an aduersary referring him for further knovvledge vnto his ovvn book vvhen I refer yovv for any place ether of my former or els off both his a fevv excepted in the beginning I folovv his later book vvhere all these bookes be Of faultes escaped in the printing some are suche as ether ouerthrovv the vvhole sense corrupt yt or that othervvise may greatly hinder yovv VVhich I haue set apart from the rest desiring yovv to vouchsafe to correct them especially vvith your pen considering that yt is but a small labor to yovv in one book vvhich vvould haue bene infinite to me in all Fare vvel gentle reader and if thovv take any profit off my labors remember me in thy praiers vnto the lord for his assistance in the rest off my life and namely for that vvhich remaineth of ansvver vnto the D. book The faultes most necessary to be corrected Page 15. lin 8. put owt priestes and. and l. 14. put owt either priestes or pag. 31. lin 26. read is not asword pag. 57. lin 11. read with the contrary of that sentence pag. 66. lin 22. put owt against pag. 84. stat R flat pag 152. lin 9. put owt suche pag. 164. lin â–ª 26. yet R. yea pag. 170. lin 31. for the second inuisible R. visible pag. 173. lin 31 R. faithfulnes pag. 191. lin 23. in the margent R. 2. Coun. pag. 211. li. 8. put owt they pag. 252. lin 26. for decree R. they decreed pag. 261 lin 20. pastors R. people pa 266. lin 32. R. for if the. pa. 273. lin 34. in certein copies For those alledged Titus to proue Timothy and read those alledged to proue that Timothy and Titus did pag. 296. lin 26. R. Euangelistes and pastors pag. 368. li. 16. giftes R. vices pag. 390. li. 16 put owt but. pag. 402. lin 16. R. inconuenient pag. 440 lin 5. this R. there is pag. 441. li. 9. put for as where as and lin 12. R. and in not pag. 443. lin 2. obteined R. obserued pa. 499. lin 22 after the word before ad yt appointeth pag. 516. lin 19. for bishops R. elders pag. 553. li. 2. put out belike suche as ours Other faultes vvhich may somevvhat stay the Reader Page 9. line 6. put owt and pag. 11. li. 15. saith R. faith page 18. li. 35. one read owne page 19 li. 25 R procedeth page 21. li. 19. R. Vincentius page 23. li. 6. they R. there page 31. li. 2. R. spake page 33. in the margent put owt Ierome Tom. 3. praeface in Iob. page 37. li. 11. R. bouldnes page 41. li. 5. R. suspition page 42. li. 21. R. not to come page 46. in the margent R. implicita pa. 46. li. 30. R. members page 49. l. 14. for R. of page 50. li 21. R. magnifie pa. 51. li. 11. there al R the real page 52. li. 29. put owt the page 53 li. 9. R. that a man li. 11. R. and not onely page 55. li. 36. R â–ª herewith page 61. li. 25. diuis 7. R. 5 page 64. li. 28. R not note pag. 77. li. 18. R. Ancyran li. 21. put owt is page 94. li. 16. R. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 page 96. li. 31. R. remnantes page 106. li. 4. R. snatcher page 108. li. 35. this R. thus page 112. li. 18. R. tel me now page 116. li. 19. put owt yet page 131. li. 26. R. poore page 133. li 26. R self pa. 145 li. 8. R. answerer li. 8. be R. he page 146. li. 24. R. soundnes of doctrine page 148. l. 36. R. not page 151. li. 6. R. gift l. 29. R. abilitie page 194. l. 8. put owt the figure of twelue page 211. li. 23. M. R maister page 225. li. 20. R. I haue page 233. li. 3. if R. yt page 234 li. 35. in the magent R. â—75 page 238. li. 13. R. was then page 247. li. 8 R. the whole page 265. li. 19. R. fauouring page 259. li. 24. R. yow might page 281. li. 15 put owt and page 293 li. 20. R ministery page 302. li. 11. R title page 316. li. 13. he R. be li. 7. R. moste page 334. li. 37. R. with page 337. li. 18. R. yt is in an page 341. li. 29. be R. he page 351. li. 35. R. are in the li. 36 are R. of page 364 li 30 R seauen yeare page 373. l 21. R. reading li. 28. R. dealing page 380. li 24 in the margent R. 572. page 394. li. 13 yt R. yet page 405. li. 29. R. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 page 457 li 36 for the second there R. his page 460. li. 32 R. in that page 478. li 20. R. for him page 485. li. 12. R. weigh page 492 li. 1. put owt which page 494. li. 18. R. title page 504. li. 24. R. chew wordes page 503. li. 12. 17 29. 33. R Sozomene page 508 â–ª li. 29. R. fondly page 534 li. 29. R. had said page 536. li. 1. R. doen page 562. li. 34 R. peece page 565. li. 29 their R. other li. 33. for other R. their page 566. l. 16 R. with page 570. li. 9. in the margent R. aduersus page 581. li. 30 R. scambling page 585. li 8 is R as The ansvver vnto the doctors praeface entitled to
abowt to make men beleue that I haue some thinge that I would not haue men vnderstand And althoughe he confesse he vnderstand it not yet he reprehendeth it and so it commeth to him which S. Iude chargethe the false teachers withe in his tyme that he speaketh euill off that he knoweth not He asketh here for examples and they stick still in his throate vnswalowed and vndigested whiche the admonition gaue him when he hathe ouercome those then let him aske for more examples And wheras he ascribethe as a great absurditie to vs that we make the order off chusinge the minister before the eldershipp and gouernment be established somewhat diuerse from that which is before putting this florishe vppon it that we allowe off all thinges owt off order thoughe against our owne order so it be against common order I will not goo abowte to confute that here or to shew what good cause there is off this diuersitie it being sufficiently declared in that booke whiche togither withe the right forme off gouernment commaunded owt off the worde off god notethe the disorders off our churche onelie I will aske M. D. whether the consecration as it is called off the Archbishops and Bishopps at the first entrie off the Queenes maiestie vvas the same altogither vvithe that vvhiche hathe bene sithens And iff there were a difference betwene that and this then in this great desire off his to stricke he care not how nor after What sorte his strooke is fallen vppon him selffe and vpon those whom he vndertaketh to defend That the wordes off the admonition haue not that sense which is here ascribed vnto yt I haue shewed in the proper place neither will I touche it here althoughe the A. set it twentie tymes before me Yff he haue any thing to saye against that whiche I haue said there it shall be considered Althoughe here the D. was taken eueÌ„ in the verie acte of false coyninge yet he shameth not to denie yt and withe that bloudnes and foreheade that he is readie also to accuse him that taketh him withe the manner He biddeth me peruse more diligentlie the wordes off M. Bullingar I haue perused them and set them downe first in latin and then in Englishe and iff I haue not turned them truelye shew wherin I haue faulted and iff they be truelie turned then I demaunde againe where these wordes be founde in any of those leaues of Bullinger whiche yow quote That they could not teache truelie because they had great liuinges Yow saye they be word for word there shew but the same sense or meaninge that is to saye that this off M. Bullingers that the Anabaptistes said they could not teache the truthe vvhiche had any liuinge is all one withe that whiche yow haue set downe that they can not teache the truthe which haue great liuinges And iff yow can not shew it your falsification remaineth increased withe the open facing of an vntruthe In deede if yow can put owt all men eyes aÌ„d take away froÌ„ vs our senses and all light off grammer and off the knowledge off signification and proprietie off wordes it will not be impossible for yow withe suche confident speaches as yow vse to make vs beleue that all is turned vpside downe and that the earth hangeth ouer our heades and the heauens are vnderneath our feete but yow deceiue your selffe if yow thincke that yovve can beare downe the truthe so or that yow can hide falshoode by adding another vnto yt wherby it is made bigger and more easie to be sene then before The place added owt off M. Zuinglius Ecclesiastes maketh nothing to the saluinge off your falshoode and how farre our men as it pleasethe yow to call them are farre from all suche sayinges I haue before declared Yff yow shew as yow saye that I do giue to litle vnto the magistrate I will confesse my faulte and confesse my felse detter vnto yow for yt As for the cleanelines off my termes which I vse they are not so foule as the thinges wherunto they are applied and the prophet Malachy and S. Paule vsed them in honester matters then these are so that iff the phrase off the Apostles and Prophetes be manerly enoughe there is lesse godlinesse in yow which in me houe thus accused them off inciuilitie Vnto the nexte section pag. 40. I answere not To the 44. sect pag. 41. I graunt the corruptions off the churche of England to be suche that man in absteininge from the pollutions theroff owght not so seuer him selfe from those open assemblies wherein the eternall worde off the Lorde God is preached and the Sacramentes administred althoughe not in that puritie which they owght to be But I saye againe that the name off conuenticles is to light and conteÌ„ptuous for those meetiÌ„ges For here in is to be coÌ„sidered for what cause they departed Which was not for the mis likinge off any thinge which Christ ordeyned but throughe the mislike off that which Antechrist had browght in not as the Anabaptistes did and the D. surmiseth they did for that they iudged them selues pure and others vnpure but that they feared that their presence where suche corruptions were should be allowance or confirmation off them not so muche forthe hatred off the estate off the churche off England as forthe loue that they had to a better nor so muche for the hatred off the Ministers whiche were vniustly set ouer them as for the loue off those which were vnlawfullie by the Bishoppes taken from them Thedorete declareth how the Catholikes which mainteined the faithe of the Nicenc councell throughe affectioÌ„ to their teachers deuided and seuered them selues into seuerall coÌ„paines will the. A. faie that all their meetinges were conuenticles iff he do he speakethe farre otherwise off them then Theodorete and yet that diuision continued 86. yeares And iff this be off no authoritie whith yow yet I would gladlie vnderstande what yow vvill answere to the sentence off M. Caluin which yow haue alleadged your selffe pag. â—1 where he saithe This honor is meete to be giueÌ„ to the vvorde off god and to the Sacramentes that vvhersoeuer vve see the vvorde off God truelie preached and the Sacraments vvithovvt superstition Ministred there vve maye conclude vvithovvt all controuersie the church to be Iff this meeting withe some disorder be the church off god how is it a conuenticle Besides that it ought to haue bene considered off yow whether they continued in that diuision and whether being taught and shewed their error they did obstinatelie perseuer according to whiche circunstance that off Augustine owght to be expounded for not euerie one which departethe for any cause whatsoeuer from that vvhiche is the churche off God by and by is to be accoumpted no membre of the churche For seing that heresie is more heynous then a scisme and yet heresie dothe not cut a man from the churche onlesse he remaine obstinate muche lesse can a scisme cause forthwith
at large Vnto the fowre nexte sections I answer nothing sauing that where in the seconde secâ— pa. 5â— he saith that master Caluin in his booke against the Anabaptistes affirmethe that the churche as towching the external pollicie can not be perfecte I doo assure my selffe that as in other places so heere he hathe vntrewly saide off Maister Caluin And yt cannot bâ— vnknowne but in Moses and the Apostlâ—â— times ther was a perfecte patruÌ„ of the owtwarde gouernernment off the churches bothe giuen off the lorde and receiued off the churches neither can there be any parte of the owtwarde gouernement off the churche assigned by the answerer which draweth any suche impossibilitie withe yt as he imagineth And iff he saye that ther were faultes committed againste those perfecte patrones that is not to the purpose For the faultes off particular persons doo no more ouerthrowe the perfection off the gouernment whiche was receiued then the faultes off the officers in our churche againste the lawes theroff are to be imputed vnto the lawes them selues wherby that gouernment standeth And as for the examples off the churches off Corinthe and Galatia whiche he alledgeth they rather make against him For that disorder whiche the Apostle chargeth them withe being a slyding backe and falling awaye from that estate wherin they were firste off all set by the Apostell argueth that there was a time when the contrarie off those disorders had place in their churches In the nexte section he alledgeth diuers examples to proue that enemies one withe another conspire against the trewthe whiche no man do which and where I shewed that the churches friÌ„des may doo some thiÌ„ges which some of the churches enemies doo against him whiche in that the admonitors doo certaine thinges with the Papiste and Anabaptistes woulde giue to vnderstande that they are conspired with theÌ„ he answerethe that the admonitors conspire withe the enemies off the churche in thinges whiche are againste the churche which is a manifest begging off that whiche is in controuersie Towching that which I sayde he hathe tawght that there is no commaundement in the scripture to put heretikes to deathe althowghe he denie that euer he did so yet beside that he mainteineth the same in the seconde treatise where he leaueth yt in the libertie off the magistrate whether he will doo yt or no and reiecteth all the lawes off God prouided in that behalfe as Iewis he there be moo witnesses off this then his bare deniall is hable to beare downe to whose knowledge I wil so reporte me in this behalfe that if they confirme not the same I refuse not to beare the blame off that reporte where he saieth there is no cause that he shoulde be better thought of emonge the papistes which teache and practise the contrarie althoughe the Papistes abuse this doctrine to the horrible murther off the church yet the doctrine is the doctrine off god and not the Papistes and yow by staying the course off yt nourishe them to the daye off slawghter and shedding off the bloude off the sainctes off god vvhich is their feaste and vvhiche they so greatly delight in and longe after In althat which foloweth vnto the first tractate vvhich beginneeth page 62. there is nothing worthe the answere And as for that whole tractate because yt perteineth to the question off lordeshipp and dominion off the Archebishopps ouer the bishops and off the Bishopps ouer the reste off the Ministers yt shall be referred to the beginning off the 8. Tractate where the answerer shall receiue his replie What authoritie the churche hathe in making off orders Chapter 1. pag. 77. THe playster vvherwithe the answerer woulde heale his vnskilfulnes in the expounding off tollerating in the churche by these wordes placing in the churche will not cleane For to let pas the meanig off the admonition whiche he shoulde haue shewed iff he mainteine his answer by yt and not as he doothe contrary to all lawe of disputation bid me proue that their meaning was not so as he supposeth I saie to let that pas yt appeareth by bis plaine vvordes that this exposition was not framed in regarde off the meaning off the admonition but for that he knew not what difference there was betwene placinge in the churche and tollerating in the churche For himselffe coÌ„fesseth that this is the principall grounde of their booke that those thinges onely shoulde be placed in the churche whiche the lorde himself in his worde comÌ„aundethe and ascribing this iudgemeÌ„t vnto them he afterwarde expoundeth that to be asmuche as if they shoulde haue saide that nothing shulde be tolerated c. yff this be their principall grounde that nothing be placed c as the A. confessethe and placing in the churche is not the same that tollerating in the churche as he doothe also confesse yt must folowe that the principall grounde off the admonition was not as he saithe that nothing shoulde be tollerated in the churche not commaunded by the worde And his wordes doo discharge the admonition off any suche assertion For in that he saithe that their meaning was so farr as he coulde gather that nothing shoulde be placed c. yt is manifeste that in saying nowe that they mente that nothinge shoulde be tolerated c. he chargeth them farther then he was then hable to gather off their booke Afterwarde he chargethe me withe an vnaduised and a popishe assertion for that I say that many thinges are commaunded in the scripture vvhich are not expressed in yt He neded not to haue trauailed far to haue seene how far I am from poperie in in this pointe iff he woulde haue but considered the wordes which folowe in the same diuision that god hathe set before vs in his vvorde a perfect patrone off his churche But I was at leaste ouerseene in this kind off speache Alas iff he woulde vnderstande his grammer and acknowledge that which simple scholers off the gramÌ„er schoole doo well knowe that their is difference betweene expressed and conteined betweene expressed and included betweene expressed and implied betweene expressed and gathered He woulde neuer haue troubled the reader with suche folies And as for that which I set downe I did yt vppon Good groundes For who is there which knoweth not that thes thinges that there is one essence and three persons in the godheade that there is in our Sauiour Christe one parson and two natures are not expressed but onely conteined in the worde off God And iff proofe must be had off thinges which is to greate shame for one that cariethe the title off a diuine to be ignorant off let the answerer know that lerned diuines speake afte this sorte Their wordes be thes Off the father of the Sonne and holy ghoste there is one nature one essence and thre persons In Christ our lorde there be tvvo natures and one person and many other thinges vvhich the catholike churche doothe receiue rather layde oute by the interpretation
examination be necessary for a deacon yt is muche more necessary for the minister againste that he saide that the fixt off the Actes coulde not serue to proue any thinge touching the ministers election because yt was off deacons he answerethe not but passethe by quietly and maketh no wordes But his other sayinge that there is no mention made off any tryall he holdethe still for good askinge me what one worde off tryall is there I answere that albeit there be not this worde trie yet ther is that which wayeth as muche for the greake worde loke ovvte can not be seuered from a triall And if S. Luke had but vsed the symple verbe which in our tounge signifieth consider yet that off yt selffe had force to haue leade the chusers to a tryall off them which were to be chosen nowe vsinge the compounde thereby he laide vppon them a greater necessitie and a more carefull diligence off triall off them Where iff the Aposteles had not mente herby to haue called the church to a diligente serche and tryall off those which were to bee choosen they woulde haue contented them selues to haue saide take from emongest you c. And althoughe the whole churche had knowledge off those which were the fittest to be chosen to that office which is bothe vnlike and almoste impossible seinge there were certeine thowsandes off late added vnto the churche yet euen those which are well knoweÌ„ vnto vs when they be to be chosen vnto suche great charges are to be inquired into a freshe For that knowledge off a man whiche is sufficiente for vs to liue with him in priuate societie and common course off life is not enoughe to promote him to suche a dignity in the churche and that experience off one vppon confidence wheroff wee durste truste him with our weightiest affaires is not sufficiente thereupon to commit vnto him the lordes matters So that consideringe the weighte off an ecclesiasticall office the manifolde creuisses off mans dissimulation with the dullnes off our sighte to espie them there can be no feare off too muche triall eueÌ„ off those whiche we thinke we knowe already And therfore allthoughe the whole churche had knowledge off those which were apte for that office yet the Apostels admonition off diligent considering whome they chose which coulde not be withowt tryall was not owte off time Againe that the Apostels giue in charge vnto the churche that they shoulde chose suche as had testimonie off there good behauiour perteineth to the examination for the churche in seking testimonie off there good conuersation tried them what they where And vnles this be tryall towching the conuersation off him which is to be chosen minister in the churche of England there is no tryall at all considering that the triall which is had is by the testimonie off certeine So I conclude that this place off the actes makinge for the examination off the Deacon is muche more stronge for the examination of the minister To the nexte section I answere not Diuis 4. What is in the begining off the boke because you set it not downe and I haue not the boke to see I will leaue to euery one to consider Howbeit the wordes which I alledge owte off yt where speaking to the Archedeacons he saithe Take heede that the persons vvhom you presente vnto vs be apre and meerâ— c. declare that the bishope passethe his election vppon the only examination off his Archedeacon But yt makethe no great matter howe many examine seinge the election and ordination hangeth only vppon the Bishoppes pleasure And he partly seinge that all the matter standeth in the courteousie off the Bishoppe and partly as yt semeth willinge that that gowlfe shoulde swallowe vpp all other mens interrestes in this election setteth him selfe to proue yt And where as I alledged that yt is not safe in so vveightie a mater to coÌ„mit that to the powre of one vvhich may be vvith lesse daunger doone by many he goeth abowt to proue that the bishoppe is off all other fittest for that matter Wherin obserue that the D. is quyte goone from the cause For the question is not whether he be off others most fytt but vvhether yt be fytt that he alone shoulde doe it So that if he will haue it a reasone againste the cause this yt is The bishoppe is more hable then any one to make a good examination therfore more hable to make yt then a great sorte more hable to make yt then any one therfore more hable to make yt alone then when he hath other ioyned with him Which is all one as iff he shoulde haue saide The righte hande is more apte to doe thinges then the lefte therfore yt is better they be doone by yt alone then with the helpe off the lefte I doe not here take exception againste the longe experience in thes thinges which he saithe the bishoppe hathe yet he cannot haue it at his first orderiÌ„ge of ministers aÌ„d others mighte haue yt as wel as he if the examinatioÌ„ were as well permitted vnto theÌ„ as vnto him I medell not also with the bishopes either sounde learning or ruled affections which what they be in some is well knowen what theye maye be consideringe that they be not tied to the rochet yt is easie to be considered Let him be as well experienced learned affected as suche a bishopp maie be yet hath he wonne nothinge by all this but that the bishopp owght not to be shute oute in this examination Where he saithe Surely if any one man or mo be voyd off such affefections and thought meet to haue such matters committed vnto him yt is the Bishopp yt had bene good he had assured that Surely with some reason otherwise yt must as yt is be holden for an vnshamfaste begging of that which is denied And off the same sorte is that which followeth that if he be worthie the office off a bishope he maie safely be credited with al thinges incideÌ„t vnto the same for this is that which lieth between vs whether yt be incident to the office off a bishoppe to haue thonely examination off those which are chosen to the ministerie Which yff I coulde geue you I woulde to be ridd off thes importunat askinges Yâ— followethe not because ciuill matters whiche touche the commoditie off this liffe maie be committed to one therfore ecclesiasticall also whiche concerne the liffe to come maie be so hazarded Nay for so muche as maÌ„s insighte into ciuille affaires and iudgement in them is sharper then in matters perteininge to the churche it is cleare that there ye more helpe required in thes then in the other Besides that when as princes by takinge counsailes vnto them in their weightie affaires off the whole realme and for better deciding off priuate mens causes appoincte whole beâ—ches off Iustices standing off fiue or sixe they doo sufficiently declare therby howe they haue the Iudgement off one be he neuer so wise
some reason and will yow cast yt awaie with a worde But the order of trying his gifte off expounding is good and for the moste parte necessarie For althowghe yt may be perceiued by questioning shortly with him what his vnderstanding is in the misterie off Christ yet his vtterance disposition and memorie giftes necessarie for a minister can not be tried but by suche a profe or by long acquaintaunce with him which can be seldome betwene the ordeiners and him that is to be ordeined And iff in well ordered cities ther is no man admitted to set vpp in any mysterie onlesse he haue offered to the Maisters off the companie some worke for a masterpeece and declaration that he hathe skil in that he will open his shop for how muche more in the ministerie off God owght it to be prouided that before he be allowed to worke in the great misterie off our saluation and laye hand to the framyng of the siluer vessels of the church off God the maisters off the companie especially whiche are the Elders off the church being best able to iudge owght to haue triall how he handleth the goulden hammer off the word off God. But if M. D. which at other times loseth the corde off lawfull vocation will here to pinche me vvith all girde it so streight I answere that neither he which is to be admitted doth it withowt vocation being therunto called by those whiche haue to doo in the electiō nether doo they admit him withowt warrant of the word of god For the lord in com̄aunding to take a sufficient triall of his abitilie ād that precisely before he be admitted doth in that commaundement include all thinges that pertaine therto For as vvhen any peace off grownd is giuen vnto one ther is also a waye to come vnto it graunted withall althowghe the same be not mentioned so the lord in giuing to his church power to trie his ministers can not by any meanes bethowght to haue hedged vp the way which leadeth neerest vnto that triall And beside the reason heroff owt off the word off God ioyned with the practise off diuerse churches We haue plaine examples in the scripture as I haue shewed in my former booke And how dothe not the A. here condemne manifestly the exercise of common place vsed in the vniuersities wherin younge men that they might he better prepared for the ministerie do interprete in there courses the scriptures which haue no admittance or ordination vnto the ministerie I will let yow passe heere with this contrarietie with yowr selffe that yow graunt to euery minister the rule off his flock whiche deni it so stoutlie in other places where yow giue it to the Bishops and Archbishops If yow had found suche a one in me yow would haue made suche hue and crie sufficient to haue raised a whole countrey But I will not presse your contrarieties but wher they be pregnant And so I leaue it to the iudgement off the indifferent reader how well the answerer hathe mainteined the wantes off the booke which were by me in this behalffe assigned Their wordes are to be seene my replie and your answer let the world iudge what forehead there is in him which saith they condemne all as euill and as vnlearned lest I spend moe wordes in prouinge that it is light at noone daies There is more likelehoode that for want of iust triall they might be thowght to denie a lawfull callinge to those which are admitted by the common order But it followeth not theroff that they saie there are none lawfullie admitted for the cause before alledged And it is vnreasonable yow should charge them vvith that vvhich I vvrite or vvith that the second admonition vvriteth Touching the nombre off sufficient ministers in Fraunce I wrote that vvhich I receiued wether it be trew or no it may easely be knowen of those vvhich vvill enquire off it Take yow good leaue to speake all good off the vniuersitie it shal be my recreation after your importunate barkinges yt is my dailie praier it may goo well with her and althowghe I be from her yet I caried some of her boweles vvith me so that whether there be in her either iust cause of ioye or sorowe I haue them in com̄on with her I can take no exceptiō vnto yowr 450. vniuersitie preachers not hauīg the register of the vniuersitie but yow did warely saie knowē preachers and not godly preachers for some of those haue troubled the vniuersitie and other places with popishe leauen of pargatorie free will ād Abrahams besome cut owt by a larger measure then euer our sauiour Christ taught But to le◠the corruption off some and the inhabilitie off other some with the so rare preachinge off certeine that as at the appearinge off a comete or blasinge starr or some other notable change in the heauens so at their preaching there may be feare off some calamitie to come to let all those goe to helpe to make vp this garlond off 450. yow owght not haue forgotten to subducte those which are taken awaie by death those vvhich are thrust owt off the ministerie and musled by the bishops those which are mued in cloisters those which beside the necessarie vse off the vniuersitie remaine there and those vvhich hauing charges in the countrey lurke there These being subducted excepte the accomptes doo rise better then yow shew I feare me that I may cut of from the numbre of 2000. hable ministers in the whole church of Englād which I assigned before as many as yow take from that nombre which I reported to be in Fraunce And alas what are these fiue loues and 2. fishes to so many thowsand churches So that if yow had not doone it at vnwares and had not had an other ende then is false owt we should haue had to thāke yow for this leuie of ministers vvhich the vniuersity hathe bred as that which strēgtheneth the fewnes off hable ministers which I assigned M. D. hand is still on his halfepennie and as Plautus Euclio he suspecteth euery man for his treasure and by putting his hand so often to the sore vvhen he is not touched he declareth plainely vvhat is the greife The feare of spoile off the churches goodes is not vvithowt cause But there was no cause to suspecte it in the Innes off court which off their yearly exhibitions giuen to mainteine there studies haue erected vp three diuinitie lectures more for any thing I know then all the bishops haue doone Therfore yow euill requite this liberalitie with such suspitions Yf the Centurion deserued praise for building a Synagoge and is cōmended by the holie Gost to all posteritie for his liberalitie in prouidinge a place for the preachinge off the word then they for there liberalitie in prouidinge for the minister him selfe deserued a better gratulation then this Yf they had throwen in somewhat into the Corban and botomlesse bagge it should haue bene counted to them for
voice off the vvhole brother hood and by the iudgemente off those bishopps vvhich vvere presente and vvhich had vvritten vnto yovv off him c. Thus therforey may be reasoned that was the ordinance off God vvhiche Cyp. taught to haue bene practised by thos examples for he stil coupleth them together withe his doctrine giuē before and groūded owte of the booke of nūbers But he taught that in thes examples the people were not onely presente at the choise but also gaue their voices therfore it was Gods ordinance not onely that that the people shoulde be presente but also that they shoulde chuse And here yt is againe to be obserued that this is another off the popishe shiftes for vnto Luther whiche alledgeth that the people owghte to chuse there minister leste the churche shoulde despise or hathe him vvhich is thruste vppon it vvhilest it mighte not haue him whom yt desyred Pighius answereth that the meaninge off those wordes be that the people shoulde be presente and beare witnes and the same answer is made by other Papistes to other testimonies which are browghte This by the waie that it maie be knowen from whence the Ans prouision comethe Nowe to procede Where he saithe that the people had no voices in Eleazars election I aske him howe he prouethe that If he answer because it is not mentioned in the scripture he hathe answered hym selfe more then twentie times when he saieth that it is an euill argumente to reason negatiuely off the scriptures Let him now take this answer That there was no like necessitie off examininge Eleazars ministrie by voices as ther is off other ecclesiasticall electione forsomuche as he was chosen by the voice off God whiche coulde not be deceiued But Cyprian did well see that if the lorde vvoulde not haue the iudgemente off the churche passed by in those which he him selfe had chosen by his voice from heauen muche les vvoulde he haue any minister thruste vpon the churche againste her will in elections vvhich are made by men withowte suche speciall direction Nowe as this interpretation off the A. is directly againste the wordes off Cyprian directly againste his meaninge shewed forthe by practise and examples so dothe yt directly ouerthrowe the whole scope vvhiche Cyprian alledgeth those wordes for which is that he mighte therby vvithdrawe the churches from communicatinge with the ministerie of those vvhiche had fallen seinge they mighte bothe put them owte and chuse other in their places For if he mente the churche shoulde stande by to see vvho vvere chosen and to obiecte againste him if neede required albeit not thus muche was euer obserued of our bishops tel me who are they Cyprian mēt shoulde chuse magistrate there was none The eldershippe the D. dare not saie for he trembleth at the verie name of it I dare saie his meaninge is to gratifie the bishoppe withe this morsell but yt will choke him if he swallowe yt Yt is the porcion off a nomber and therfore if it coulde be caried from the churche It muste come vnto the bishops that dwell rounde abowte that churche where the election is to be made And if the election and depriuation by Cyprians minde be in their handes howe hathe the people powre to chuse and refuse For if they woulde they coulde neither depriue the presente incumbente nor depriuinge him chuse another Anye off thes thinges ouerthroweth Cyprians drifte and armeth the people withe replies againste his exhortacion namelie that they communicated withe their poluted minister becawse yt is not in them to depose him but in the Bishoppes rounde abowte yt is not in them to chuse another but in the Bishopps Therfore his reprehension and exhortation shoulde haue beene directed againste the bishopps and not againste them And so it is manifeste both by the wordes and whole drifte off Cyprian that his iudgemente was that by the ordinance off God in Ecclesiasticall elections the consente and iugemente off the churche is necessarie The Cuckoe is heere come againe for looke the D. booke and yow shal see ether the same wordes or at leste the same matter withowte any addition Which are heere in the 1. 2. 3. 4. sect off this diuis In the 164. and 165. pag. sect 1. 2. Yow haue yt set before yow almoste all againe This is not Colewortes twise but thrise sodden Yt behoueth that he imagine a great famine of learned writinges that dare thus abuse the cares and leysure off his reader Touching the variety of Electiōs which he citeth out of M. Caluin onles as vnnatural weomen doo their children conceiued in adultry he purpose to make awaie withe his cause I knowe not what he shulde meane to offer yt thus into the handes off her enemies For he writeth thus in that place alledged In oulde tyme ther vvas none receiued not so muche as in to the nomber off clerkes vvithovvte the consente off the people so that Cyprian doothe diligentlie excuse him selfe that he had appoincted Autelius a reader vvithovvte aduise off the churche And so rehersing Cyprians wordes after he addethe But becavvse in those smaller exercises there vvas no greate danger for that both they vvere in dailie tryall and the function vvas not greate the consente off the people ceased to be asked And by those small exercises yt muste needes be he meaneth the Acoluthes the Exorcistes and the Readers whiche maie appeare to haue beene in Cyprians tyme by his Epistles And maie yet better appeare wheras Maister Caluin shewinge the cause why the people was not so carefull in that behalfe off retaininge their righte saithe For there vvas none made subdeacon vvhich vnder that seueritie off discipline that vvas then had not gyuen longe experience off him selffe in the clerkshipp and after he vvas tried in the subdeaconshippe he vvas made deacon So that yt is manifeste that by the order off Clerkes there he meaneth those whiche were vnder the degree of a subdeacon He saith also that aftervvardes the people did permitte the iudgemente and choise off other orders likevvise vnto the bishope and elders excepte the bishoppricke or vvhē any nevve elders vvere appoincted where firste yt makethe directly againste yow that in times paste not so muche as a poore Exorciste or reader was chosen withowte the consente off the people Secondly that he saithe Cyprian did excuse him selfe vnto the people that he had chosen Aurelius implyinge therby that althowghe he had some reason to leade him to doo so yet he was in the peoples daunger Thirdly that yt was the peoples righte in that they permitted this powre vnto others Fourthly that this righte was giuē to the elders ād not to the bishop alone as yowe woulde haue yt Laste of all that bothe the choise of the bishoppe and elder remained in the powre off the people Wherfore yow vntrwly reporte when yow saie that the people committed the choise vnto the bishopes and elders excepte yt were in the election off the bishoppe
if Maister W. answer be good are auoided vvith a floute that they be a mandatum owte off the bookes off Leuiticus and Nombers that they carie vs to Iudaisme c. Yt is vvell the D. hath not to doo vvith the Anabaptistes For he is like enowgh to betraie that cawse vvhich hauinge so sure groundes in the scripture ▪ is here by him laied open to their mockerie For he saith that the 28. off S. Matthew is a generall grounde to proue the baptisme off Children When our Sauiour Christe speaketh there onely off those vvhich vvere off discretion as appeareth by that he biddeth them baptise those whom they haue made scolers off Christe by their doctrine And therfore for so much as the Apostels coulde not teache children nor coulde not make them disciples by teachinge before their baptisme yt is manifeste that he speaketh not there off childrens baptisme And this might he haue learned for his vse in the same booke off Zuinglius oute of which he hath taken so manie thinges to no pourpose And it is not onely Maister Zuinglius answer but other learned mennes vvhich haue had to doo vvith that secte As for the promise alledged that god is our God and the God of our seede albeit that bee the grounde wherupon the holy sacramentè off Baptisme is ministred vnto infantes yet yt is not sufficiente vvithout addinge the commaundement off God touchinge the circumcision off yonge children For iff the lorde hauinge gyuen that promise vnto Abraham had commaunded no circumcision at all or had onely commaunded yt to be gyuen to those off discretion yt had not bene lawfull for Abraham to haue circumcised his infantes yet they shoulde haue remained vnder the promes So that vvhether Yow vvill or no wee muste come to reason from circumcision vnto baptisme Neither is that yow alledge of Circumcision to haue beene a figure off baptisme sufficient to deliuer yow oute off the nettes vvherwith yow snare yowr selfe For albeit yt bee a figure off baptisme yet yt is aceremonie and a principall parte off the ceremoniall lawe and yowr answer is generall againste all reasoninge from the ceremoniall lawe vnto that which is established vnder the gospell Therfore I vpholde still that yovvr ansvveres here and in other places tende to spoile vs off diuers pillers and principall buttresses off our religion Where he saithe he condemnethe not other churches which haue appoincted other orders of electing pastors I reporte me to thè reader whether the wordes be generall and vvhether the reasons he alledgeth for that purpose be likwise Nether can the D. shewe any reason why in Geneua vvhy in vvhole Dominions in Germanie Why in Scotlande in Fraunce also in the tyme off their peace this order off election by the consente off the people shoulde bee good and pernitious in England Which notwithstandinge owghte to haue bene shewed if there be anie I expounded the worde ovvght as reason vvheroff the lawe is founded and experience vvhich is often times the interpreter off the lawe tawgte me to shewe that vvhere the consente off all can not bee had ▪ there the thinge shoulde passe by the moste parte of those which haue intereste And where yow affirme that lawiers doo saie that that sentence is to bee vnderstanded of compartners or iointe tenantes in some howse or possession and not off the interest off bodies politike I am well contente they be interpreters of the lawe which they professe and therfore iff that be shewed me I will reste in that interpretation But the reason assigned that it seldome commeth to pas that they will all consente semethe not so stronge consideringe that there is not so great violence doone vnto the wordes off the lawe which may not be founde in other places if by the worde all the moste parte be vnderstanded Especially when allthowghe all doo not agree yet all haue had free voice in that matter And where yow saie that euen that lawe admitteth diuers exceptions that is not materiall For I laie not so muche weighte of this sentence as thowghe the cause should rise and fall vvith it I mente that as much credite mighte growe vnto the cause by this as by a prouerbe which is trewe For the moste part off which kinde off reasons not onely orators but the scripture yt selfe diuers times vseth And therfore if I gaine by this lawe that the ordinarie choise off ministers owght to be by the people I hath at I loked for But yt is to be obserued that where the A founde faulte vvith me for mitigatinge the necessitie off the worde ought by this exception if it maie be he notwithstandinge alledgeth fowre exceptions wherby the necessitie which he saithe that worde importeth is quite ouerthrowne And if those condicions be trewe then be like I did well vnderstande the worde ought the vnderstandinge wheroff he can not aforde me Yt is well you be no lawier For yowe that are so liberall off a dinners talke as to tell vs off Many together and Many senerally with so many exceptions to so smale pourpose if yow had beene studied that waies woulde haue troubled vs all for then yt is like vvee shoulde haue had alwaies Cesar for Christe and Paule the lawier for Saint Paule the Apostell But marke vvhat a trymme waie he hathe founde to proue that the whole parishe chuseth when the bishopp onely chusethe that they are willinge to haue hym whom they are compelled whether they vvill or no to receiue Yea and not onely that but that euery minister is chosen by the whole realme that is to saie by those which neuer sawe him nor heard off him But hath he forgotten firste that it is our controuersie whether the parliament haue doon well in establishing off suche an order off makinge ministers and whether this egge off the bishoppes election laied in propery could by the sitting vppon off the Parliament although neuer so godly leese the poysoned nature it had before If that bee not agreed this deuise that the people chuse when the bishop be-because yt was so ordeined by all estates serueth not This libertie as hathe bene shewed is a peece off the liberties which Christ hath purchased vnto his churches by the sheddinge off his precious bloud wherin they owght to haue stood and which is no more lawfull for them to alienate or set ouer to others then to giue awaie the inheritance of the kingdome of heauen wherunto this is annexed Moreouer we speake off an electiō wherin consente is to be gyuen as ofte as the church is destitute off a minister and he off consente ones gyuen for euer We off an election which is passed by all the howsholders off euery church he off that vvhich vvas passed by a fewe burgeses in the vvhole realme We off a free election and he off an election wherin yt is by yowr leaue againste yowr will. Now the Papistes may clap their handes for againste all the argumentes that Maister
haue vsed the authorie off the Centuries to the vtter reiection off the canon off the councell off Laodicea I vsed yt onely to bringe the canon into suspicion whether yt vvere made then or no. If I had had the booke before me yow might well thinke I would not haue doone my selfe that wrong As for the Canon I haue shewed bothe by the conference off other councels and authoritie of Caluin and Beza that yt can not be vnderstanded to seclude the people from the election but tendeth onely to the directing of them by the foreiudgemente of the elders And wheras to the authoritie off Calu. which I allege owt of the Actes he opposeth his authoritie in the Institutiōs besides that faulte vvhich he reprocheth me with off opposinge the authors vnto them selues the vntruth off it is shewed in the former place neither can the A. haue excuse off his moste vnfaithfull dealing For as well in the edition he foloweth as in the later this iudgement touching the canon is not once but twise set downe not simply but with confirmacion off the decree off Leo the firste and that in the same section owt off which he hath fetched thes wordes If he will stil speake against the sonne and denie that which he doth so plainly affirme touching the vse off the churches election onely in the Apostel◠times and times off persequution I can doo no more but leaue it to the iudgement off the reader referring him to the places vvhere he saith that this election endured vnto Cyprians times and to his whole disputation wherby he goeth aboute to proue that this election can by no means be conuenient for the prosperitie off the gospell The exception he maketh againste the peace off the church in the time off Constantine because Maxentius and Lycinius persequuted yt is nothing to the purpose For Albeit the churches vnder them were in persequution yet those vnder Constantine were quiet And euen vnder Licinius the church vvas at quiet for a time For Constantine and Lycinius made a moste perfecte and full decree for the peace off the church and by their letters sente to Maximinus vvhich vvas then the persequutor in the East procured peace there So that the peace was generall throwgh the churches And althowgh that peace was in certein partes broken of yet yt appeareth that both Lycinius Maxentius and Maximinus being taken awaie Constantine obtained dominiō ouer the whole empire and pourchased peace vnto the whole church When the Nicene Councell alloweth not off the election off the clergie vnles the person chosen be both worthy and likewise chosen by the people can there be any plainer wordes inuented to confirme that I haue set downe And vvhere he vvould darken so cleare a light by wordes vvhich saie that those thinges belonged peculiarly to Aegypte and to the church of Alexandria as if this order off election by the church vvere not holden good in other places he dooth but as a man which hath made shipwracke snatcheth at euery thing he can laye holde off at all aduenture For Ariu◠heresie bearing sway in those partes draue the councell to enter into certaine peculiar considerations off them but that the election off the church was a peculiar thinge vnto those prouinces yt is too absurde For what wisdome off the councell shoulde yt be to permitte that vnto the people in those places which were moste corrupte with Arianisme yf other places of the worlde vvhich vvere sounder then they had not that priuiledge And if the foresaied wordes cause this condition so that the people chuse to be a peculiar thing vnto those places then yt followeth that thother condition vvhich is ioined vvith yt was likewise that he vvhich vvas chosen should be meet to be chosen vvhich no man that hath not loste his senses vvill euer saie So that wee still haue the councell off Nice confirming absolutly the election off the church As for Grineus he maketh nothing to this matter for the right off the clergie shutteth not owt the churches The wordes off the tripartite storie are as I haue alledged and the wordes of Theodoret haue nothing to the contrarie onely the D. must saie something Thouching the next diuision I leaue yt to be iudged whether I haue shewed that vvhich the A. saith I haue not It is neuer a whit the better althowgh those yow alledge and all the world should allow of that sentence yow bring forth vnder Ambroses credit I vsed no contempte towardes Ambrose nether haue I so much as reiected him onely that sentence as blasphemns against the gouernment off the Apostels Idetested and yt owght to haue bene mainteined by confutation off reasones I alledged and not by bare autoritie For yf that had bene enoughe to wype awaie that place I had a great deale more manifester againste yt then yow be hable to alledge for yt For of that place off Ambrose Caluin writeth thus As for those thinges vvhich are redde in the cōmentaries off Ambrose they are too childis he and vnvvorthy of Ambr. And yow doo but coulor this matter vvith the names off Georgius c. Which what they saye I reporte me to those that haue the bookes to see assured notwithstanding that if they had any thing for yow yow woulde haue made them speake If yow would haue doone symply yow should haue named Pighius who proueth diuersitie of gouernmēt off the church as yow doo by this counterfaite place of Amb. As for the shifte wherwith the D. Would helpe it that yt was permitted to al mē to preach and minister the sacramentes but not withowt a calling yt is spoken witthowt reason For what needed there or howe can there be a calling when all were vsed to the seruice of the ministrie Seing that calling is a seperatiō from other by electiō and electiō is choise of some with leuinge off other some And the churche of Christe is a bodie standing off manie members and not all an eie or any other one mēber And for that there were manie in the time off the Apostles vvhich had not ether knowledge or dexteritie to teach yt can not be saide vvithout making the Apostles Authors of horrible confusion that they called all men to the ministerie off the vvorde and sacramentes That vvhich is browght owt off Bull. and Sleidan is but filling vpp of paper For they condemne not the Anabaptistes because they chose their ministers but that they excluded the authoritie of the magistrate Your reproches heere are answered I gaue yow as readie a waie to finde those testimonies as I had giuen me If yow tooke yt owte off Musculus yowr selfe then mighte haue noted the place if yow had yt of others yow should haue named yowr collector as I did mine Heere is occasion taken to repeate and translate a great deale owt of Musculus but nothing to purpose For I denie not but that he is off Iudgement that a man
by this meanes from the maiestie off the scriptures and making them dâ—â—â—e c. amplified in the next diuis by asking why the scriptures were then written with other suche too too idle questions which I am ashamed to defile my penne with is vnworthy the name of a reason As yf in that reading maketh meÌ„ fitter to heare the word preached and to seeke after yt in that yt helpeth to nourish faith engrended in that it confirmeth a man in the doctrine preached when by reading he perceiueth yt to be as the preacher tawght in that it renueth the memory off that was preached which otherwise would decay I say as if in thes respectes and such like the profit off reading and committing the word to writing were not singular and inestimable beside that it is not denied but the Lord may extraordinarily gyue faith by reading onely although the order which God hath put is to saue by folishenes as it is esteemed off preaching beside also that yt is absurd that the D. asketh why els the gospell should be writter as yf there were no other cause of writing off it then that it should be simply redd or as though the principall cawse was not â–ª that yt should be preached But to retourne to the D. exposition First it ouerthroweth the argument off the Apostle For the Iewes offended that he and other preached to the GeÌ„tils prouing first that the inuocation off the name of God perteineth vnto them he concludeth therupon that preaching vnto them was lawfull considering that they could not otherwise come to call vpon the name off God where by the D. expositioÌ„ the Iewes might haue excepted that his mynistery towardes them was not therby iustified forasmuch as they might come to inuocation by reading onely withowt his and others ministery off preaching Furthermore the Apostle S. Paul affirming in plaine wordes that the preaching he speaketh off can not be made but by him vvhich is sent yt is first manifest that reading priuately is cleane shut owt from being conteined vnder this preaching For faith comming onely by that preaching aÌ„d that preaching onely lawfull by the sending of God and publicke calling it followeth that except he will say that the scripture may not be redd priuately onles a man be publikely called therunto that both priuate reading of the scripture can no be conteined vnder the Apostles word of preaching and that faith onles by extraordinary worcke of God can not be engendred by priuate reading Forasmuch as it is engeÌ„dred only by that preaching vnder which priuate reading is not conteined And so goeth to the ground one peece off the D. assertion Now if priuate reading onely can not ordinarily engender faith I would know how publike reading onely can doo yt Beside that when publike reading may be by a simple reader which hath no other charge in the church and off whom this solemne fending can not be vnderstanded yt followeth that faith can not by publike reading onely be engendred Forasmuch as he being none off those sent his reading can not be that preaching by which faith is engendred I say that a reader onely can not be off those sent the Apostle speaketh off not onely because he hath regard vnto the ministeries off the word appointed by God but also for that the place off Esaie owt off which he proueth that faith cometh not but by preaching will by no meanes suffer to cary the word preacher vnto a simple reader For beside that it were friuolous to refer the lifting vp off the voice off those preachers wherunto the Prophet exhorteth vnto a loude reading which is vnderstanded of earnestnes and diligence in preaching that voice he speaketh off is the voice off the churches vvatchmen â–ª which title when yt can not agree vnto a simple reader that hath no further charge then to reade in a booke according to the prescript off others yt is manifest that a simple reader can not be conteined vnder S. Paules preacher seing he can not be conteined vnder Esaies which is the same with S. Paules For when the title off vvatchman draweth a continuall care and circumspection ouer those he watcheth and the reader for any thing his office requireth may occupy him self in any worldly busines sauing onely the time off his reading yt is cleare that he is no church watchman Nay the reading mynisters which haue charge off sowles committed vnto them can be none off this order of watcheman seing they can not onely not see the ennemy a far of but not hard by much les discry him yt perteining to an instructed pastor which according to the circumstance off the inuasion knoweth to apply his watche word Now seing simple reading nether priuate nor publicke can be conteined vnder the preaching S. Paul speaketh off Rom. 10. which is an interpretation and laying open the scriptures by a publike mynister apt and autorised therunto yt followeth that faith which the Apostle teacheth no otherwise to come but by that preaching cometh not ordinarily by symple reading I omit heere that the Apostle vseth to expresse this preaching both by crying and telling good nevves wheroff when yt can not be shewed owt off scripture or as I am perswaded owt of any other autor that ether of them much les both together is vsed for simple reading yt followeth that simple reading can not be vnderstanded by the word preaching To proue that bare reading ingendreth faith he citeth Iohn 5. repeted pag. 574. 2. Timo. 3. whereto perteine Math. 7. Act. 17. 1. Iohn 4. Gal. 1. disorderly placed pag. 717. but to no pourpose For when our Sauiour biddeth the Iewes search the scriptures he referreth them by that search to iudge off the doctrine he had preached before which proueth no fruict off reading when there is no preaching beside that it will be hard for him to refer the word search to reading onely as if one could not search the scriptures when he attendeth to them alledged in sermons yea he is confuted by the place him selfe hath alledged Where he would proue that the scripture red in respect off making the hearers more apte to discerne off preaching is better then preached for when the Apostle teacheth the Galatians to hould them accursed which preache other doctrine then they had receiued by his preaching he dooth flatly make his preaching the rule to examin other preachings by The place off Tim. being as I haue shewed off the proper duties off the minister off the word in preaching making no manner off mention off reading is alledged withowt all iudgement Hether refer Bucers Testimony in his former diuision which maketh for that set downe in this For Bucer setting him self to commend reading in the churche saith twise bare or onely reading confirmeth in the knovvledge off the Doctrine which necessarily presupposeth a knowledge foreplaced or euer yt can be confirmed by reading onely Where as if he might it is to be thowght he would haue
signification should be followed for part of the writers of canonicall bookes as of Iosue Iudges Sam. Chron. Kinges c. are vnknowen To that wherin the booke is charged for lifting vp of diuers cha of the Apocrypha to be red as extra ordinary lessons vppon feast daies vvherin there are greatest assemblies some chap. off canonicall scripture being not red at all he answereth not a word but leaueth it to speake for it self Seing then the scripture precisely forbiddeth to ordeine a pastor not fit to teach and bare reading off homilies is conuenient off holy scriptures insufficient to saue the people by which are the cruches wherewith the D. would vphould this lame ministery it followeth together with the shamefull absurdities off reading to be preaching to be as good yea better then preaching that vnpreaching pastors as the pestilence off the church owght to be throwen owt Now I retourne backe to the 7. Tract off Ministers apparell wherunto albeit I was determined as may appeare to reply yet considering after that this cawse hath bene so fully debated both by bookes in print and other treatises written in the handes of as many as desire after them considering also that the D. second answer beside false accusations as that men haue learned off me and my parteners to esteme the surplis c. corrupt in them selues c. open facing downe off thinges in knowledge off all men as that none are hindred one iot from comming to the gospell by prescript apparell bare affirmacions withowt proofe as that no minister making conscience off wearing thapparell will rather weare it moued by example off other then by the law which commaundeth it almost continuall reasoning not to the matter which he cowardly dissembleth as that Prophetes which were extraordinary ministers had an extraordinary apparell which is not denied which traine taken at the beginning is followed to the end triumphes in his owne shame â—â— appeareth in the place off Salomons Ecclesiastes I say beside thes considering that he hath almost nothing at all not before answered and that he hath not fetched from any treasury off good learning but as taken vp by the highe way sideâ— and considering that we haue this question with very few him the Papistes or those which haue already cast an eye vnto the papistes onely excepted with whom to trauaill in this point before their other gale be purged were to heale the skinne and leaue the bones still broken all thes things considered with that that it may better appeare we take not these thinges for the greatest matter we coÌ„plaine of I thowght good to tread this treatise vnder my foot and to saue some good howres which might be lost in vnripping this beggery That I saie off hauing this question with very few him c. excepted I meane in that where he saith the surplis square cap and tippet be most conuenient decent and comely others in whom there is any loue off the truth confesse it a weed vnmeet for a minister of the gospell which not able to root owt they are for certeine causes content to beare with And althowgh destitute off answer he plie his matter with accusatioÌ„s of disobedieÌ„ce and conteÌ„pt of magistrate yet I doubt not but with all indifferent our open and simple profession off the necessitie off higher powers and off the honour and humble submission to Her Maiestie and all magistrates vnderneth her ether in doing thinges commaunded or patiently suffring for that which we can not with good conscieÌ„ce doo shall be sufficient defense especially seing that euen in this matter off apparell it is confessed that obedience owght to be giuen where the commaundement is with iniury to the ministery As for the D. ether error or flattery that in thinges indifferent commaunded by the Magistrate we owght not to haue such regard to the offense off the weake but that if all should be offended that is to say perish and make shipwracke off conscience for that is the offense which S. Paul and we after him speake off yet we owght to doo that which is commaunded the Magistrate being therby lifted aboue the Lord we vtterly condemne Considering it being a flat commaundement off the holy gost that we absteine from thinges in their owne nature indifferent if the weake brother should be offended no autoritie ether off church or commen wealth can make yt voide And where the magistrates commaunding and owr obedience vnto him owght to be squared owt first by the loue off God then off men our brethren especially this new carpenter as one that frameth his squire according to his tymber and not his timber according to the squire will make our obedience to the cyuill Magistrate the rule off the loue off God and our brethren So that in steed that he should teach that we may obey no further vnto the magistrate then the same wil agree with the glory off God and saluation off our brethren he teacheth that in thinges off their owne nature indifferent we must haue no further regard nether to saluacion off our bethren nor to the glory off God which in neglect of their saluacion is troden vnder food then will agree with doing that the magistrate commaundeth But I am gone further then I thowght seing there caÌ„ hardly be any so symple which perceiueth not easely both the fondnes and absurdity off his answers in this question The replie to the D. 8. Tract off Archbishopes and Bishopes Vnto the firste and seconde diuision being beside the question I answer nothing Before I come to the thirde forsomuche as the place off the Euangelistes which is before is generall and striketh at all the loftie and swelling titles off the ministrie I will set it here downe in the foreward off the reasons browghte againste the names off Archbishopes c. as that which speaking againste all the smoky names muste nedes comprehende thes In the D. answer therfore wherby he goeth aboute to proue that thes wordes gratious or bountifull Lordes make nothing againste the great names and magnifical titles off the ministers this is the firste that Saint Marke and Muthewe haue no wordes bearing any suche sense Wherunto I answer that as yt is a generall rule almoste throwghowte the scripture that repetitions are not withowt some vsury and increase so in the writinges of the EuaÌ„gelistes yt is to be obserued almost euery where And therfore yt owghte not to haue bene strange if other Euangelistes speaking off the autoritie onely S. Luke added also touching the titles Secondly he answereth this clawse yt shall not be so vvith yovv is not referred vnto those wordes are called bountifull and benefyciall but vnto ambition and tyraÌ„nical dominioÌ„ onely wherunto I answer firste that forsomuch as the things there affirmed of the Ministers and the worde off gracious Lordes is as well affirmed off kinges as the worde off bearinge dominion therfore those wordes yt shall not be so
by that Beza writeth vpon thes wordes he gaue all these vvhich belieued in him this dignitie or prerogatiue that they should be called the children off God. Now what this dignitie and preeminence was may easely be seen by that the bishop of Rome hauing preeminence or dignitie ouer the bishop off Constantinopel Alexandria c. had nothing therby more then they sauing onely the first place in their meetinges Seing therfore thes wordes translated to haue power signifie nothing but to haue honour which consisted onely in hauing the highest place by thes wordes off the Councell groweth nothing to the Metropolitan but onely to sit in the highest place at meetinges This may also appeare by the same h Councell where yt is said that if there rise disorder in any churche vvhich is not compounded it ovvght to be decided at the prouinciall Councell which was therfore to be houlden twife euery yeare in which faultes vvere to be corrected not by the Metropolitane but by the bishops together And becawse the Councell here referreth vs to that accoustomed before yt is to be considered what that was so far as we haue testimonie The bishops assembled at Nice browght their quarrels one against an other and offred them to the Emperour which they would not haue doon at least so generally if there had bene any such order taken off referring their debates to the Metropolitan The Emperour likewise receiuing their bils and answering that it perteined not vnto him to decide those matters sendeth them not to their Metropolitanes to be iudged but adiourneth them to the iudgement off god Yet yf there had bene any suche autoritie ecclesiasticall off the Metropolitanes the Emperour as he was very religious in those obseruations would not by all likelihood haue failed in that Likewise writing ioyntly to Alexander bishop and Arius Elder off Alexandria amongeste other thinges he saith it vvas not meet they should rule so great a people being deuided amōge them selues Where it is to be obserued that howsoeuer thes wordes so great a people be taken whether for the churche off Alexandria or for all Agipt c. the Bishop gouerned not alone but by cōsent and aduise of the Elders of that church Then if the Ans will refer this gouernement to the whole countreis off Aegypt Lybia c. and take it in that signification he doth for bearing dominion and commaunding the rest not the bishop onely but euery Elder off Alexandria had commaundement not onely ouer the Elders but ouer the bishops them selues off other churches Which if it be absurd that whereoff it followeth must be likewise This is all that I finde the Nicene Councell gyueth to the Metropolitan aboue the rest how litle it is and how small a part off that the Answ presumeth let the reader iudge That he owght to be no bishop which is made withowt consent off his Metropolitan is a very seely prerogatiue seing yt was the order of the church in those times that all the bishops off the Prouince shoulde be at the making off a Bishop And as the election off the people was voide if the Metropolitane were not at it so was it also if there were not three bishops at the least present Let vs see now whether the practise of the Metropolitanship will fall owt any more fanourable for this pretended iurisdiction Athanasius foloweth on whom the D. woulde fasten this archbishopricke firste because Ischaras submitted him selfe vnto him by lettres As if euery one which hath offended an other doothe by his submission acknowledge him an archbishop whom he hathe offended and as if Ischaras owght not to haue doone as muche vnto any bishop in the Prouince yf he had belonged vnto his parishe as he did vnto that of Athanasius Secondly becawse Arsenius and those off his diocese wrote lettres off submission vnto Athanasius The print off the diocese is so deeply set in the D. heade that what soeuer he meeteth with he turnethe into yt For there is there no mention off diocese but off a citie As for the submission he maketh yt is not to Athanasius but vnto the ecclesiastisticall canons onely he acknowledgeth him Metropolitane and that withowt his sentence he will make no Ecclesiasticall decree perteining vnto the churche which we denie not For we confesse that there were then Metropolitanes and as Arsenius coulde not make anie decree to wching the whole churche in the prouince no more coulde Athanasius withowte Arsenius as hath bene before owt off the former booke declared But that he was subiecte vnto Athanasius there ys not a worde the cleane contrary is to be plainly seene For Arsenius in his fare well writeth thus vve and those vvith vs salute the vvhole companie off sacred men vvhich are in thy iurisdiction by which wordes he manifestly exempteth him selfe frō the iurisdiction off Athanasius Wherupon yt muste folowe that the office off Metropolitaneship in those daies implied no subiection nor autoritie to commaunde ouer other bishops in his prouince And Athanasius in calling the bishops there his fellovv ministres often times declareth in what place he had them not as subiects but as his fellowes And that the A. escape not with that Popishe shifte that Athanasius therby did declare his humilitie yt is to be seene in that booke that the other bishops doo more then half a dosen times call him their felovve mynister barely withowte other title Now if Athanasins not off right but off his greate humilitie called him self their felowe mynister yet the other bishops in so calling him when they were subiecte vnto him and at his commaundement are to be charged not only as voide off Christian humilitie but also as forgetfull euen off all commen ciuilitie and good manners That added off Athanasius visiting off Mariotes and the Prouinces there as they are called perteineth nothing vnto this question for there were no bishops in that place and what he did in that behalfe did not as Archbishop but as Bishop that territory belonging vnto Alexandria And not onely Archbishops but bishops yea Elders visited the parishes off other bishops As for that the parishes in the territory off Mariotes had neuer◠bishop but belonged vnto Athanasius beside that I haue shewed that corruptions had greatly preuailed at that time it is to be obserued that it is there put as a strange thing and vnwonted that one bishop should haue so large grownd For vnles that be the autors ende there was no cause why he shoulde haue vsed that kinde off speach Which may better appeare forsomuche as Socrates speaking off this storie interlaceth the same sentence when as speaking off the places off bishops els where he neuer mentioneth any such thing The canons off Arles Councell off that attributed vnto the Apostles and of Antioch follow The first hath nothing not graunted and serueth for filling onely The second supposed of the Apostles ys the same with that of Antioch That off