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A71013 Origo protestantium, or, An answer to a popish manuscript (of N.N.'s.) that would fain make the Protestant Catholick religion bear date at the very time when the Roman popish commenced in the world wherein Protestancy is demonstrated to be elder than popery : to which is added, a Jesuits letter with the answer thereunto annexed / by John Shaw ... Shaw, John, 1614-1689.; N. N. 1677 (1677) Wing S3032C; ESTC R20039 119,193 138

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547. n. 29. three Chapters so requiring Commanded the Holy men assembled to protract (t) Inst Ep. ad Synod Collat. 1. p. 520. the time no longer in expectation of the Popes presence but to debate and deliver a speedy Judgment upon the Controversy depending before them which they readily submitted to and accordingly did discuss and (v) Ibid. Coll. 2. p. 524. determine the matter without the Popes Placet and contrary to his good liking and (w) Baron Ann. 553. n. 212. affections 2. The practice not only of Heathen and Jewish Kings do confirm this but of Christian also who have challenged and exercised this Power as their Original Right derived to them from God The first famously known Christian Emperour Constantine the Great said to his Bishops You are the Bishops of those things within the Church but I am appointed of God to be Bishop of those things without the Church meaning thereby that the oversight of the external Government of things belonging to the Church was by God committed to him as the administration of Holy things of God within the Church was deputed to them (x) Cited in the Book De vera differentia written An. 1634. King Edgar in an Oration to the Clergy required them to make a Reformation by a conjunction of his and their Power committing the whole affair to so many Bishops as he then nominated Charles the Great convocated the Bishops to him to Counsel him how Gods Law should be recovered and in the Preface of the Capitulary wrote thus to the Clergy of his Empire We have sent our Deputies to you c. Let no man censure this as a Presumption to correct what is amiss c. For we have read in the Book of Kings how Josiah restored the Service of God in the Kingdom which he had given him Maximilian in Ann. 1512. Declared though he of his clemency had tolerated the Pope and the Clergy as his Father Frederick had done yet it appertained to his Duty that Religion decay not that the Worship and (y) Abbot Vrspreg Grth. Grat. Easc Whereupon he with Lewis the twelfth of France and some Cardinals called a Council at Pisa and cited the Pope in it Onupher in vit Julii secundi Service of God be not diminished 3. It is the Duty of Soveraign Princes to do as Josiah did by the directions of faithful men though the majority of the Priests express their unwillingness and averseness For many Kings have been severely reproved for not reforming the Idolatrous abuses of Gods Worship in their Reigns which would never have been done unless they in Duty had been obliged to do it and obliged they could not have been unless God had settled a Power in them to do it of which because there is no revocation or limitation in the Gospel therefore the first Grant and Commission standeth good for the Gospel doth not destroy the Law but perfect it 4. Ad hominem did not Queen Mary in her huddled reduction of Popery exercise this Power Did she not introduce the Popish form of Solemn Mass which was then abolished by standing Laws Did not she to drive on her design imprison one Archbishop displace two and deprive eight Bishops Did not she with the consent of a sorry Convention which she called five dayes after her Coronation repeal some Statutes made by Henry then eighth and others by Edward the sixth Sir Henry Spelman in his larger History of Tithes c. 29. p. 170. tells us he had heard there was but twenty persons to give their voice with the Bill and yet carried it Did not she for a colour when the work was done some few dayes after call a Convocation which she soon after dissolved by her peremptory Mandate but not a word of this from our cunning Origenist because it was done for the advancement of the Catholick Cause Popish Princes may do what they like in order to the Good old Cause and never be checked or censured for it but Protestant Sovereigns must be bound up till the Popes License or a Vote in Convocation loose them 5. Although Synods be the most prudential and safe way to determine Church-matters yet without them Gods Worship may be Reformed and the Catholick Doctrine restored In the case of the Catholicks and Arrians Nazianzen ad Procopium complained he saw no good end of Councils certainly in those where Faction prevailed and Votes passed not by weight but number Not that he thought so absolutely and Universally but pro hic nunc in respect of the Times and Persons assembled For he knew if a Council had been called when the Arrians were the overruling party in the Church the Catholicks would be overpowered by multiplicity of Votes yet for all this He and other Catholicks did endeavour the suppression of Arrianism 6. Neither in such times and cases must the business be delayed till a General Council be summoned especially when he who pretends to have the sole Power of calling it and the parties called are aforehand agreed by Clandestine correspondencies they will do nothing towards a Reformation but either obstruct or baffle it Henry the eighth said well A General Council would do well where all may speak their Judgments but it cannot be called a General Council where they only are heard who are resolved to be on the Popes side in all matters and where the same men are Plantiffs Defendants Advocates and Judges Hist Conc. Trid. Angl. fol. 85. 7. Supposing there wanted a formal Synodical concurrence in this Transaction of Edward the sixth there was in effect that which to all intents and purposes is equivalent viz. a General submission and conformity to the Provisional Injunctions and Acts ef Parliament by the Clergy 8. There was a Synod to carry on this matter in Edward the sixths time for though the first Edition of the Liturgy was only framed by the advice and suffrage of Bishops and elected Divines which yet was afterwards revised and compleated with the addition of a form of Making and Consecrating Bishops Priests and Deacons but whether the Synod then in being composed and formed it or passed their Power which is more probable for the forming of it to the selected persons appointed by the King and so may properly enough be said to have done it because by those to whom they had consigned their Authority I shall not pretend to determine yet this may be safely resolved on a Synod there was which appears from the statute-Statute-Book which makes mention of a Subsidy of six Shillings in the Pound granted by the Clergy unto the King 2 3 Edw. 6. and it is notoriously known such a Grant in those times passed not without a Convocation and it is certain mention was made of a Synod 1 Mariae held in King Edwards days and Mr. Philpot a member of the Convocation 1 Mar. maintained the Catechism exemplified in the Common-Prayer Book to be Synodical upon this account that the Convocation in King Edward's time had
Papal Dispensation SECT VII N. N. I Have spoken both with Catholicks and Protestants that remember near 80 years and acknowledg that so long they have heard the Nags-Head Story related as an undoubted Truth SECT VII J.S. DOughtily argued from the authority of the Common People who as they do not at all understand the matter so they as little concern themselves in such affairs and what they have take all on trust to conclude an undoubted Truth But if this will pass then the Papists were guilty of the Barbarous Murther of our late Glorious and Pious King though I am perswaded many of them abhorred the Fact and the Plot leading thereto because it hath been reported that they did devise and forward the Fact and when the villanous Act was done much rejoyced at it This Argument at the best is a Topick from vulgar Fame which as the Lawyers speak is praesumptie levis temeraria and so no proof in Law SECT VII N. N. THE Queens Dispensation seems to acknowledg it which Mr. Mason is willing to shadow with a distinction The Queen saith he did but dispence with the Trespass against her own Laws not essential points of Ordination but only accidental not in Substance but in Circumstance But if the Consecration was at Lambeth and according to the form of Edward the sixth what need was there of any Dispensation especially given not in conditional but in absolute termes since both Substance and Circumstance had been according to the Protestant Law SECT VII J S. THis is N. N's best seeming Argument but the best is it seems but so For 1. Dispensations are granted ex abundanti and in majorem cautelam even at the Court of Rome though the work it self be exactly performed sometimes they are used to obviate sleeping defects oft for better security and to prevent Mistakes and Cavils as in this Queens time it happened in another case for she passed a Bill for the restitution of Archbishop Cranmer's Children who needed none in strictness for their Father was not Condemned for Treason as some surmised but as Mr. Harding confesseth fol. 574. for Heresy which taints not the Blood nor makes any forfeiture of Estate yet because the Archbishop had formerly been accused for High-Treason the Act was useful to make sure work 2. He pretends the Dispensation respected Archbishop Parkers Consecration which is a mistake for it concerned only his Confirmation which was eight days before on December 19. 1559. 3. He suggests It was given not in conditional but c. This is False for the words are Si quid c. If any thing c. which heretofore hath always been taken for a conditional term SECT VIII N. N. BIshop Bonner excepted against his Indictment because the Oath of Supremacy was said to be tendered to him by Robert Horn Bishop or Winchester who was by no Law Bishop and thereupon had no Authority to tender him the Oath and upon his Plea was never more troubled any further See his Case Abridgment of Dier's Reports 7 Eliz. p. 234. SECT VIII J.S. 1. IF Bishop Bonner or N. N. by no Law mean the Law of Christ neither the Judges nor Jury could take Cognizance of it if they conceive the Law of the Realm which his reference only respected they might if the matter had been tried 2. The ground of Bishop Bonners Plea was that King Edward's form was not sufficiently received which by the way supposeth Dr. Horne was Consecrated by it by the Statute 1 Eliz. which a Friend to the Cause the Author to the Anker p. 4. and with him his Superiours who approved his Book hath acknowledged it was saying Queen Elizabeth renewed the Form of Common-Prayer Book much like that in King Edwards time and so hath N. N. his own dear self more than once and more fully 3. The Exceptions against this Indictment shew only that Bishop Bonner was put to a desperate shift for three of his Exceptions to this Indictment were excepted against and over-ruled by all the Court this indeed which was last which he kept for a reserve though it failed him too was allowed with a restriction and upon conditional terms which proves nothing till the supposition be validly asserted viz. That if the truth of the matter were so indeed that he was not Consecrated by King Edwards Rite he might Plead it and the Jury Try it which Resolution was according to Law But it never came to any issue for the Parliament cleared his Consecration and so stopped further Proceedings this being made good that he was legally Consecrated by the highest publick Judgment should stand good with N. N. and his Colleagues because he once but falsly pleaded an Inferiour publick Judgment for his own purpose and the credit of his Narrators 4. He alledgeth a reason for the goodness of Bishop Bonner's Exceptions for if it signifies not this it is impertinently inserted he was never troubled any further Most absurd for it is usual with Higher-Powers not to trouble those any further whom they have secured unless N. N. be as bloody as Bishop Bonner and his Comrades were who thought it was nothing to imprison those who refused Obedience to their Orders unless they burned them with Fire and Faggot Protestants are not so merciless and cruel as Papists and such was the Clemency of the then Higher-Powers which N. N. had he been ingenuous would have commended that they thought that Bishop Bonner being deprived and imprisoned for his Obstinacy greater severity was more than needful and would rather argue Revenge than Justice But whatsoever N. N. thinks some men in the world think that deprivation and continued imprisonment is trouble enough and would be thankful in such cases they were troubled no further SECT IX N. N. BUT to salve this sore Mr. Mason that quick-sighted Gentleman hath spied out Authentick Records which for fifty odd years lay in a Saint-Solitude invisible to Mr. Jewel Mr. Horne and others of those times who were severely taxed for the Nullity and Illegality of their Orders For questionless if any such had appeared in their days they would not have lost so great advantage by concealing them when the producing of them would have much foiled their Enemies if not absolutely routed them Mr. Fulk denies ordinary Calling to be always necessary which he would not have done if he had known the Records which if they had been authentical and extant would have saved him from that desperate shift SECT IX J. S. 1. THE Records were not hung out of the Registers Office as Haberdashers and Milleners do their Wares and so did not appear but when the Office was open at usual times or perhaps upon a sudden emergent at other times any who had a desire might with the usual Fee and perhaps without have seen them and so they did appear they were not concealed 2. Many Records by this account lie in a Saint-solitude for more than fifty years ten times told over as hereafter
passed their Authority to certain Persons Deputed by the King to make Spiritual Laws * Fox Act. Mon. So that though nothing appears apud Acta because perhaps not so carefully registred or not at all because it was the Personal Act of their Deputies or in that primo Mariae which is likely enough expunged and destroyed yet a Synod there was to carry on this work upon the foregoing Reasons to which may be added what Bishop Jewel def Apol. fol. 520 affirms which Mr. Harding (a) Scoffing at it as a small obscure meeting of a few Calvivinists Def. Apol. fol. 521. which Bishop Jewel farther avers Defen Apol. fol. 645. could not deny We have not done saith he what we have done altogether without Bishops or a Council the matter hath been treated in open Parliament with long Consultation and before a notable Synod and Convocation Having premised thus much the less shall be said to N. N's exceptions and reports and nothing at all to his angry scurrilous malicious invectives and expressions 1. Edward the sixth was a Child c. This is a close reflection on his incompetency to act in that kind but N. N. might have considered that Kings in the eye of the English Laws are never Minors and that though he was a Child in years yet not so in understanding for during the time of his Reign he kept a most exact judicious Journal of all the most principal (b) Haywards Ed. 6. affairs of State and his abilities were so great far beyond his years that he could encounter Gardan and disputed his new devised Paradoxes with so much acuteness and strength of Reason that Cardan reported his parts to be miraculous And as to his Knowledg in matters of Religion his Answer formerly related to the Romish Rebels sufficiently shews he was no Candidate thereof but a solid understanding Christian But if his being a Child be so great an offence to the Romish tender Consciences why should not their Universal Monarch's being a Child work the same effect in them Such they have had Benedict the ninth was a Lad almost ten years old John the eleventh a stripling and a Bastard to boot which one of their stout sticklers grants and makes a pleasant Phanatick (c) A. D. Soc. Jes in his Reply to Dr. White p. 289. Sect. to the seventh Apology for their youth viz. in these words The young years of our Bishops cannot be a hinderance to debar them of being Infallible Pastors and Universal Monarchs in the Church since out of the Mouth of Babes our Lord can work his own praise neither is Ignorance want of Learning or Discretion any lett when by the mouth of an Ass God can instruct a Prophet 2. They did vary as he runs on and so were in confusion The Antecedent is beggarly without proof and the consequence is naught every variation in judgment and opinion doth not infer or imply Confusion The members of the Trent-Assembly in far more and more importing Doctrines did vary almost at every turn yet I presume this man of confidence will not adventure to conclude that all was there in a Confusion But King Edwards Doctors did not vary for they were perfectly agreed and took an effectual course to prevent discord and confusion For 3. The Common-Prayer Book was not obstructed but generally and Religiously observed For in 1 Edw. 6. it was Authorized by Proclamation recommended to the Bishops by special Letters from the Lords of the Privy Council to see it practised and in 2. Edw. 6. a penalty was imposed by Act of Parliament on such as should deprave or neglect the use thereof if any disturbance therein it proceeded from the Popish party and their Preachers which occasioned a Proclamation to be issued out to silence them 4. He relates every one might Preach what he pleased c. This is false for a Proclamation was published none should Preach unless he were Licensed 5. Hugh Latimer saith he was in great esteem c. If so then probably the Common People would have sided with him for the Common-Prayer Book which he so highly esteemed that he judged all those who condemned it to be Factious and Seditious as in particular he charged Thomas Lord Seymour upon that account 6. He tells us the Common People took Armes c. Surely not those who so much respected Hugh Latimer they were some who affected Popery that is no news such should prove Rebels when they dare he might have spared this to save the Credit of his Old Religion This practice is sufficient to prove them no true Roman Catholicks for the Old Religion taught Subjects Submission and Suffering for Religion and forbad Resistance and Rebellion and taking up Arms against their lawful Sovereign 7. He supposeth Edward the sixth's Reformation could not be perfected c. In good time by the same reason Queen Mary's reduction of Popery could much less be perfected for she lived but five years 1. He presents his grand remarkable in this Kings time c. But he is so reserved and wary as not to specify the year of his Reign if he means 1 Edw. as is most probable he misseth one of the number for thirteen were appointed this is a pardonable mistake That which follows is a down-right Calumny as hath been sufficiently proved for those seven men had a real respect to the Judgment of the Christian World and Practice of the Catholick Church If he pitch on 2 3 Edw. 6. then 32 persons were nominated to examine Ecclesiastical Lawes viz. such as concerned the Jurisdiction and Rights of the Church in foro externo which indeed were but so many Regulators of the Canon-Law If he relate to 6 Edw. 6. only eight persons were named in the Kings Letters Patents with a power to call into their Assistance whom they pleased But this is remarkable that when N. N. lays claim to all the Christian World many General Councils and all the Fathers for their Matter and Form of Sacraments and their Sacrifice of the Mass he is then fallen into the braving humour of his old Thrasonical Bragadochio Colleagues Testor omnes patres omnia Concilia c. No less than all was the nothing Brag of Father Campian but the Author of the Apologetical Epistle published Ann. 1601 goes far beyond him in this swelling ranting ventosity That Faith which I defend is taught in all the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures and all ancient Glosses and Scholies on their Latine and Greek by all the learned Fathers Historians Antiquaries and Monuments by all Synods Councils Laws Parliaments Canons and Decrees of Popes of Emperours and Kings by all Martyrs and Confessors and Schools by all Friends and Enemies even Mahumetans Jews Pagans and Infidels all former Hereticks and Schismaticks All these he had carefully and with diligence studied and considered them this is a right Don Glorioso But somewhat is still behind his Faith is approved by all the
which as (n) Alias Turcelline l. de 6 7 8 Synodis p. 65. Turrian relates is extant in the Vatican and it is very probable for Pope Leo seventy years after (o) Conc. Chalc. Act. 16. p. 136 137. Leo Ep. 53 54. Car. p. 201. by his Legates in the Council of Chalcedon opposed it though to no purpose for his resistance was not valued either by the Council or the Judges who indeed contemned it These two Popes then did withstand it but Caran adds That the Church of Rome would not by any means receive it though welfare a little touch of Ingenuity for the peace of the Church which it seems highly esteemed it it was not contradicted which in effect imports thus much The Popes and Church of Rome were so cunning as to dissemble their spight against this Council and that Act especially but durst not shew their teeth for fear of the Emperour For the proof of this relation he refers to Innocent the third and St. Gregory the great whom he cites truly for though in one Epistle he professeth to (p) Lib. 2. Ep. 24. embrace that Council as one of the four Evangelists and testifieth that the Church of (q) Ibid. Ep. 10. Rome then owned it yet in another Epistle he (r) Lib. 6. Ep. 31. confesseth that until his time or age wherein he lived that Council and the Acts and Canons thereof were not entertained by the Roman Church so that for the space of two hundred years and upwards for that Council convened Ann. 381. and Gregory flourished Ann. 600. it was opposed and rejected as far as in safe Policy it could be done by the Church of Rome but notwithstanding this opposition the Catholick Church still reputed it a lawful General Council and all the Acts and Canons thereof to be obligatory and occasionally practised according to them which is next to be demonstrated For by warranty of that Canon in this Council which so perplexed the Roman Church Anatolius Patriarch of Constantinople in the right of his Sec did take place before and above the Patriarchs of Alexandria (s) In the Council of Chalc. Act. 1. Conc. Chalc. p. 8. Synod Ann. 553. Coll. 1. and Antioch and so did Eutychius in the fifth Synod Ann. 553. And when it was reported to the Fathers of Chalcedon that Flavianus Patriarch of Constantinople in the reprobated Council of Ephesus neglected himself sitting below the Patriarchs of Antioch and Jerusalem they were much offended saying in great zeal Why did not Flavianus sit in his proper place that was next to the Bishop of Rome or his Legates By authority of this Canon which so troubled the Popes Patience St. Chrysostom when he was Bishop of Constantinople (v) Conc. Chalc. Act. 11. in fine Soz. l. 8. c. 6. saith 14. in Ann. 400. Pallad in vit Chrys deposed fifteen Bishops in Asia the lesser and ordained and settled others in their Sees and Dignities and in Ann. 400 the same St. Chrysostom celebrated a Council at Ephesus to which he called all the Asian Bishops who readily attended him After this Justinian the Emperour commanded all the Canons of this Council which the Popes would if they durst have publickly rejected Dipticis inseri praedicari to be Recorded in the Eclesiastical Books Rolls or Registeries and publickly to be read in all Churches in token of their (w) Novel c. 1 2. Vniversal Approbation But albeit both Law and Usage the best Interpreter of Law concur for the proof of this Conclusion yet the cry still goes O the Mother O the Mother Church of Rome which is hotly pursued by the Bigots set on by the Boutefeu's of the Tribe This hath made a great clutter and bustle in the world which yet hath nothing in it but folly and disingenuity and impudence for can any man in his right Wits who is not tainted either in his Intellectuals or Morals ever hearken to such a Perswasion so contrary to all Records Divine and Human The Scriptures make Jerusalem the Mother-Church Gal. 4.16 But Jerusalem which is above or the New Jerusalem as it is stiled Revel 21.2 and the Holy Jerusalem ver 10 whose wall had twelve Foundations and in them the names of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb which is Mother of us all Christians Believers of the Gospel where the Church of Christ was first planted by the Apostles and St. Peter Preached his first Sermon and begot many to the Faith and from whence they all departed after to execute their Apostolical Commission For this Jerusalem is not that which shall be but that in which the House of God shall be built with a Glorious building and all Nations shall turn and fear the Lord God truly and bury their Idols so shall all Nations praise the Lord and as old Tobit instructed his Son Tobit 14 5 6 7 as it is here allegorically expressed for that City was a Type of the Christian Church Psal 48.2 and 122.3 Isa 31.5 In the Old Testament it was foretold to be the Mother-Church of Christianity Out of Sion shall go forth the Law of Faith as it is universally Interpreted and the Word of the Lord the Gospel from Jerusalem Isa 2.3 Mic. 4.2 And in the New Testament the Prophecy is accomplished and verified where it is plainly declared that Repentance and Remission of Sins should be Preached in Christs Name among all Nations beginning at Jerusalem c. Luke 24.47 48 49. Act. 1.8 and fully compleated Act. 2. per tot So for Human evidences the first General Council at Constantinople is clear which expresly owneth Jerusalem for the Mother of all Churches to which Tert. (x) Cap. 20. which Pam. thus Gloseth this is the first from which the Church all the World over is disseminated so Hier. Interprets that of Isa 2. and this is the Mother Church from whence the Faith came to us as the same Tert. lib. 4. adver Marc. Rome is but one of the Sister Churches which yet are Mothers in their Precincts Id. ib. de praec c. 36. may be added in his Book de Prescr The Church was first founded at Jerusalem as the Seminary of the Churches all the World over and ex abundanti even in St. Bernard's time when the Church of Rome had exceeded her limits yet had she not the reputation of Vniversal Mother nor the Honour of Lady Mother at least in his judgment for thus he writ to (y) Lib. 4. de Consid Tom. 2. p. 141. tit L. Edit Venet. Pope Eugenius Above all things consider that the Holy Roman Church over which thou art placed by God is a Mother of Churches some not all and so every Apostolical Church is as well as Rome not a Lady or Mistriss of any and thou thy self not a Lord of Bishops but one of them It is true St. Cyprian saith Rome is the or rather a principal Church from whence the unity of Priesthood first began but this signifies nothing