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A13773 Positions lately held by the L. Du Perron, Bishop of Eureux, against the sufficiency and perfection of the scriptures maintaning the necessitie and authoritie of vnwritten traditions. Verie learnedly answered and confuted by D. Daniell Tillenus, Professor of Diuinitie in the Vniuersitie of Sedan. VVith a defence of the sufficiency and perfection of the holy scriptures by the same author. Faithfully translated. Tilenus, Daniel, 1563-1633.; Du Perron, Jacques Davy, 1556-1618. Discours sur l'autorité.; Tilenus, Daniel, 1563-1633. Defence of the sufficiency and perfection of the holy scripture. aut 1606 (1606) STC 24071; ESTC S101997 143,995 256

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the first Author thereof vnlesse the Bishop of Eureux being a Courtier had rather giue the glorie of it to a Lady to that Nunne of Leige who had first this reuelation that the Church that the pretended head of the church who let himselfe be gouerned by a new reuelation or by an olde Nunne hath erred and caused all them to erre that haue receiued of him this new Ceremonie this new Diuine worship this new meanes yea ground of Saluation and of blessednes 〈◊〉 1.2 which consisteth in the remission of sinnes Or else that the Church afore that time that had doone nothing of it beleeued nothing nor heard of it for the space of twelue hundred yeares after Christ hath erred as well in that which it did as in that which it beleeued at least wise touching this point of the Eucharist which it honoured not after the manner set downe in the third booke of the ceremonies of the Romish Church of which māner he that will confer it with the ceremonies sometimes obserued by the heathen in honour of Isis of the Syrian Goddesse of Diana of the Persians fire c. shall finde out the true originall of it and an antiquitie more auncient than any Apostolke Tradition is These are the ragges wherwith our Gaboanites doe ordinarily decke their Antiquitie which their owne writers freely confesse witnesse Cardinall Baronius who saith That it was to good purpose ordained that the ceremonies or seruices which belonged to the Pagan superstition Annal. tom 2. ad● chr 200. shold be sanctified by the worship of the true God for to bee employed in the worship of the true 〈◊〉 Religion Now the Bishop of Eureux insteed of continuing his reply to my answere touching the foure pointes that we holde with them of the Romish Church which are the truth of the Baptisme of little Children that of the Baptisme of Heretickes the proceeding of the holye Ghost from the Father from the Sonne and the translation of the feast of the Sabaoth day to Sunday which Articles hee had alleadged as not hauing anye ground in Scripture instead I say of answering to my reasons by which I shewed the contrarie hee goeth no further and after hee had consumed wel nigh foure yeares in seeking replyes to the three or foure first leaues of my booke hee leaueth the matter in question and taketh another course finding it an easier worke to cause to bee written out by one of his Acolythes or Parasites many places of the Fathers all alreadie gathered and aranged in Bellarmine Baronius and others vppon the seauen pointes aboue quoted which it pleased him to choose then to seeke in his owne braine new cauilations that hee might ridde himselfe of so many sound proofes drawne foorth of the Scripture which shewe the perfection and sufficiency of the same in that which is necessarie for vs to beleeue touching these foure pointes alleadged by him rather for to prooue his own imperfection and vnsufficiencie then that of the Scripture And although it were no more difficult for me then for him to choose out of the same fathers to oppose as long a list of places wholy incompatible and vnreconcileable with them he produceth as aboue I haue done on like occasions and to shewe besides that the di●simili●tude that there is between some things which particular persons in the time of the aunciēt church obserued in all liberty as indifferent and with the Church of Rome commaūdeth exacteth at this day with an extream cruelty Between those things that the one did by forme of remēbrance acknowledgement with the other doth for merit and for works of supererogation I could shew the B. of Eureux his mallice in disguising the intention of the Fathers in mixing and confounding their Historicall recitalles with their Doctrines Customes with Lawes vndiscreete deuotions and manifest superstitions whereof they complained with diuine institutions The sufferance and conuenience of the Church with the approbation of the same Though it were I say easie for me to shewe all these thinges Notwithstanding seeing it were out of the center of my subiect I will not imitate that my selfe which I blame in my aduersarie who as well heere as else where sheweth that hee hath no other drift nor recourse then to obscure the principall by a thicke darke cloud of incidents in the gathering whereof he very well practiseth that which Iraeneus saith of the Gnostickes of his time 〈◊〉 c. 2. who taking the places of Scripture heere and there and wresting them for to giue colour to their blasphemies his holy Father compareth them to those that after they had vndone and dissolued the figure of a King made all of Precious Stones would make of the same Stones the figure of a Dogge or a Fox for to make men beleeue that it was the same figure of the King made by the first workeman Or to those who making Centons or mingle mangle of many matters culled out of Homers verses vppon a Subject that the Poet neuer dreamed of would perswade the jgnorant that Homer himselfe treated of that Subiect Whereas he saith that the instances whereupon wee contended the first day wee saw each other were the same whereof he frameth these seauen common places wherwith he filleth his Book I answer that it is false for of all the pointes that hee treateh there was spoken onely of Prayer for the dead and that by occasion of the Lady who had newly lost her husband was fully disposed to receiue his impressions Whereupon as I said after some other reasons that this custome of praying for the dead had neither example nor commaundement nor promise in Scripture we were straightwaies carried on general different of the sufficiencie or vnsufficiencie of the scripture as himself confesseth The Instance whereupon wee moste contended the first and second day of our conference was the Popes supremacie which I maintained to bee recent and new and by no meanes could bee deriued from the Apostles nor prooued by the Fathers in the forme and manner as at this day we see it during which disputation it hapned that the Bishoppe of Eureux for to shew the contrary alleadged S. Gregorie who saith Epist ● Epist 6 I knowe not what Bishoppe is not subiect to the Apostolicall seate Thereupon I required him to proceed with that which followed for he had the book open before him read therin this sentēce so well that not being able to excuse himselfe from finishing out the place which he would haue cut off he was cōstrained to ad these words which immediately follow Whē there is no fault that requireth it to wit this subiectiō to the censures all Bishops are equall according to the reason of humilitie As I noted to the standers by this ingenious Eclypse He replyed that there was no fraud seeing that none of that made against him I answered that thereby it would follow that hee who was a Bishop was equal to