which is but a short section or Chap er doth not charge Luther with this opinion of heretikes not to be burned but the Donatists whose fansie is renewed againe in the Anabaptists and Libertines As for Luther Contra Latomum deincendiariis handleth not this controuersie at all but onelie expostulateth with the deuines of Louane which burned his bookes without examination or Conuiction of them out of the word of God Manie men haue complained and that moste iustlie of the crueltie of the Papists in burning as heretikes the true saints martyrs and members of the Church whose faith and religion they were neuer hable to conuince of heresie by the authoritie of gods word But that no blasphemer or obstinate heretike maintaining blasphemie against the expresse and manifest trueth of God is to be punished by death I am persuaded he can bring no booke or author of any accompt that so holdeth Fourthlie he addeth that Luther by onelie scripture found the sacramentaries to be heretikes D. Fulk by the same scripture findeth that both parties are good Catholikes But as Luther erred in his opinion of the sacrament so he was ouer rash in condemning those whome he calleth sacramentaries neuerthelesse seing he erred of ignorance and inconsiderate zeale he hath found mercie with God and is not to be adiudged as a blasphemous heretike For neither the error he maintained is blasphemie in it selfe neither did he hold it contrarie to his knowledge but as he was ignorantlie persuaded with zeale of trueth though deceiued with error How Doctor Fulke prooueth this not onelie by scripture but also by example of auncient fathers erring in like cases and yet not to be condemned for heretikes you maie reade in the place by this answerer quoted and in his confutation of Popish quarrels His last example is of manie things which Master Whitgift doth defend against Thomas Cartwright to be lawfull by scripture as Bishops Dcanes Archdeacons officialls holy daies and an hundreth more which in Geneua are holden to be flat conirarie to the scripture There are manie things lawfull by scripture which yet are not necessarie to be vsed The forme of external gouernment and discipline of the Church is not so expreslie set downe in holie scriptures but that euetie particulare Church hath libertie and must of necessitie appoint manie things for order decencie and gouernment which are not in expresse termes conteined in the scriptures euen as god shall giue them grace to see what is moste expedient according to the difference of times places and persons for the building vp of the Church in trueth and loue Wherefore although the Church of Geneua in the forme of outward regiment rites and discipline differing from the Church of England do not vse the same things that we do yet it followeth not that they holde them to be flat contrarie to the scripture neither is our answerer hable soundlie to prooue that he doth so boldlie asseuere To proceede he telleth vs what aduantage herctikes haue by onelie scripture they make them-selues therebie iudges of Doctors Councels histories presidentes cusiomes prescriptions yea of the bookes of scripture sense it selfe reseruing al interpretation to them-selues But this is nothing so for howsoeuerheretikes take vppon them to control al things according to their fantasie yet haue they noe aduantage by onelie scripture but therebie maie be are confounded when they come to examination tri all And as for the professors of the Gospell which acknowledge the scriprure to be sufficiente to teach all thinges needful to be knownevnto saluation although they are by god him selfe made Iudges of the spirits of al men by exacting them vnto the trial of the word of god which is the onelie certaine rule of truth yet doe they not by priuate authoritie iudge of Councells doctors fathers customs c. But by that charge which is laide vpon them to iudge cōdemne euen the Angels from heauen if they should bring anie other Gospell then that which the Apostles haue preached without al arrogancie or insolencie against the Angels Councels Doctors Fathers whatsoeuer but in giuing god the glorie to be onely true al men to be liers no Angel to be credited except they speake by the spirite of God of whose speach we haue no certaine demonstration but in the holie scriptures whatsoeuer is agreeable vnto them The discerning of the bookes of scripture of the true sense of them is also committed vnto the Church the faithful members thereof that doutful bookes be iudged by those that without doubt are indited by the holy ghost deliuered to the Church by faithfull witnesses instruments of the holy ghost to be of soueraigne and perpetual authority in the Church and so are knowne and taken of the true Church from time to time in such sorte that although the same truth maie be found in other bookes yet as Saint Augustine saith they are not of the same authoritie because there is not such certentie of trueth As for the sense and interpretation of the holie scriptures it must be taken out of the scriptures them-selues which are alwaies the best and surest interpretation of them-selues in all points necessarie to be knowne with the aide of the gift of tongues the gift of knowledge the gift of interpretation in them that haue labored in finding out the sense thereof according to the analogie of faith which is comprehended in the scriptures and that in places so plaine and euident as they neede no interpretation and therefore cannot be wrested by damnable heretikes without great impudencie and against their owne conscience for which cause Saint Paul willeth an heretike after the first second admonition to be auoided as one who though he will not acknowledge the truth yet he is condemned in his owne conscience and sinneth vnto eternall damnation Wherefore Councells Fathers Doctors customs examples are by vs admitted but not hand ouer head without distinction but such so farre forth as they be true and faithful interpreters of the scripture by matters and places plaine certenly knowne opening matters places obscure and vnknowne Which is the office of an expounder not to determine by his owne authority of anothers meaning whereof as among men euetie man is the best in terpreter of his owne so is the holy ghost of him-selfe in the scriptures by him inspired of whose meaning where they be hard to be vnderstood no man can be certaine but either by his own plaine wordes or by plaine necessary conclusion out of his plaine words Now touching the Papists whome our answerer saith to be restrained from chopping and changing affirming and denying at their pleasures because they binde them-selues to other things beside the scriptures to which they giue souereigne authoritie as to councells auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primatiue Church with the like the matter is farre otherwise For whatsoeuer they prate of the soueraigntie of
of the canonicall scripture which was receiued by Christ and his Apostles and the primitiue Church long after them But the Papists adde of their owne authoritie to the holie canon and therefore as much are they subiect to gods curse as if they did take away Neither doth Luther discredit or deface the whol epistle of Saint Iames as you saie although in comparison of some other bookes of scripture by a similitude he maketh it farre inferior to them What Doctor Fulke and Master Whitaker haue written the one of the booke of Maccaebees the other of Tobie they haue sufficientlie maintained in their replies whereunto I remit the reader and for Master Charkes reuiling of Iudith to the reporte of the disputation in which your impudent slaunder is confuted Where you conclude that no man in the world euer spake more reuerentlie of holie scripture then Iesuites do you ouer reach very much as you do very often They which teach that the holyscripture is sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation speake more reuerently then the Iesuits whichdeny the sufficiency of the scripture for the instru ction of the Church Last of al the Censure ridiculously charged M. Charke with fraudulent translation of this worde Immaculata when he alledgeth this text psal 19. as oppo sit to your nose of waxe The law of the Lord is perfect out of the original tongue the best translations from which the greek in sense dessenteth not not out of the olde latine translation Now you trifle to no purpose about the Hebrew Greeke Latine termes which to those that are but me anelie learned are well enough knowne what they signifie And first if you should graunt al that M. Chark said you thinke he had gained nothing For you also confes that the law of the Lord is perfect but not in that sense wherein M. Chark vsech it to wit that because the law of the Lord is perfect therefore the scripture cannot be wrested And afterward when you haue tolde vs that these wordes vnde filed irreprehensible and perfect which answer the latine greeke and Hebrue wordes 〈◊〉 not much in sense for whatsoeuer is irreprehensible and vnspotted may also be called perfect you conclude that this doth not prooue the scriptures to be perfect in sense in such sort as it maie not be wrested or peruerted You say true but it is false that Master Chark maketh anie such illation as you charge him For thus he inferreth the lawe of God is perfect ergo it cannot be wrested as a nose of wax or as his owne wordes are the scripture is perfect and manteineth her perfection against all corruptions as a right line sheweth it selfe bewraieth that which is crooked The lawe of a wise man as hath beene said before may be so perfect as it cannot be wrested like a nose of waxe into anie sense that the wrester wil imagine but that his vaine cauillation shall be odious and ridiculous to al men Much rather is the lawe of God so perfect as though all the deuilles in hell should breake their braines to wrest and peruertit yet can they neuer wrest it like a nose of wax to euerie side or shape but that the perfect sense of the scripture remaineth ful constant and manifest to them that haue the spirit of God yea euen to them that will iudge but indifferentlie according to right reason By the waie you charge Master Charke with railing and inueighing against your olde translation and with running he careth not whether forging he careth not what and reprehending he careth not whome yet in all that discourse he hath no more wordes of it but these your olde translation doth goe alone In which wordes what rayling running forging reprehending inueihing may be conteined let ihe wiser sort iudge and fooles learne to be wiser But where he saith that the best translations differ from the olde translation you aske what best or better or other good latine translation hath he then the olde As though none might be good but your olde translation I perceaue you would not acknowledge any good of them that were set forth by Munster Leo Iude or anie other professed protestant yet what saie you to the translation of Vatablus a famous and learned reader of Paris How dare you condemne the translation of Pagnine of the olde testament and Erasmus of the new testament as naught which the Pope allowed as good Finallie what exceptions can you take to the translation of Isidorus Clarius censured and approoued by the deputies of the Councell of Trent maie none of these be good better or best but that your olde translation hath the prerogatiue in goodnes in all degrees that it leaueth all other behinde it as nought O waightie censure of a wise Papist But let vs see wherein the excellencie of the olde translation doth consist as you suppose First you saie it was in vse in Gods Church aboue 13. hundred yeares past as maie be seene by the citations of the fathers which liued then But euen those verie citations doe prooue the contrarie at the least that it was not in generall vse in the latine Church Saint Augustine in the place by you quoted for the bowe of heretikes where your translation hath in obscuro did reade in obscura luna and standeth much vpon exposition of the darke moone Yea throughout the wholl Psalter whosoeuer wil compare the text which Saint Augustine vsed with your olde translation shall finde great difference betweene them But this your olde translation you tell vs was afterward oueruewed and corrected by Saint Ierome we know verie well that Saint Ierome did oueruew and correct a certaine auncient translation of the septuaginta that was vfed in his time But how are you hable to prooue that this your vulgar translation is the same either corrected or vncorrected For it appeareth by the citations of diuerse of the latine Church which liued after Saint Ierome that they vsed an other text then this translation euen vntill the daies of Bernard When you saie that this your olde translati on was highlie commended by Saint Augustine you make such a shameles 〈◊〉 as you obiect without shame to M. Charke when he saith that the Septuaginta agree with the hebrue in signification of the word perfecte for they saie irreprehensible which must needes be perfect but so is not your latine 〈◊〉 vnspotted or vndefiled which you your selfe in your censure do egerlie contend to be differing from perfection You name the translation of Erasmus and Luther of which the one translated onelie the new testament which Leo. 10. and Clemens 7. did both allow the other translated not the Bible at all in latine except perhappes some partes vpon which he wrote commentaries Here your Printer will make vs beleeue that you were remooued with a writ de remouendo so as you could proceede no further but now there is a writ de renouando sued against you if you
euen in that sermon you quote requiring confession of secret faultes to be made onelie to God and not to men Sed confunderis erubescis peccata tua effari Atqui oportebat maximè apud homines ea dicere inuulgare Confusio enim est peccare non est confusio confiteri peccata nunc autem neque necessariùm presentibus testibus confusio confiteri Cogitatione fiat delictorum exquisitio absque teste sit hoc iudicium Solus te Deus confitentem videat Deus qui non exprobat peccata tua sed soluit peccata propter confusionem Nunquid sic grauaris retrocedis verùm ego scio quòd conscientia non sustinet sua delicta But thou art ashamed and abashed to vtter thy sinnes Yet thou oughtest moste of all to declare and publish them before men For it is ashame to sinne it is no shame to confesse thy sinnes But now it is neither necessarie to confesse in the presence of witnesses Let examination of thine offences be made in thought let this iudgement be without a witnesse let god only see thee making thy confession god which casteth not thy sinnes in thy teeth but too seth thy sinnes for thy shame what and arte thou greeued to doe so much and goest backe yet I know shy conscience cānot abide her owne offences These wordes a man would thinke should be plaine enough against the necessitie of auricular confession but that you haue found out a moste impudent interpretation of them to saie that by confessing to God he meaneth the close consistory of the priests iudgement who occupieth the seate of God and of this exposition the Master of the sentences should be author other schoolemen should be approouers Verelie whosoeuer inuented it or whosoeuer haue alowed it Chrysostome crieth out plainly that it is not his meaning which requireth the examination to be in thought alone and the iudgement without witnes which cannot be if the priest doe heare it And although he count it greater perfection to make open confession before men yet he denieth it to be necessarie Again in his commentarie vpon the Epistle to the Hebrews Cap. 12. Hom. 30. more plainlie after he hath exhorted men to count all their sinnes seuerally before God and to make an hartie confession of our vnworthines he addeth Non 〈◊〉 tibi vt te prodas in publicum neque vt te a pud alios accuses sed obedire te volo Prophetae dicenti reuela domino taunt viam Ante Deum ergo confitere peccata apud verum iudicem cum oratione delicta tua pronuncia non lingua sed conscientiae tuae memoria tunc demum spera misericordiam te posse consequt sihabueris in mente peccata tua contiuuò nunquam malum aduersus proximum in corde retinebis I say not to thee that thou oughtest to bewraie thy selfe abroad nor that thou shouldest accuse thy selfe before other men But I will haue thee obey the Prophet saying open thy wait before the Lorde Confesse thy sinnes therefore before God prononnce thy offences before the true iudge with praier not with thy tongue but with rememberance of thy conscience and then hope that thou maist obteine mercie if thou shalt haue thy sinnes in minde continuallie thou shalt neuer reieine euill in thy heart against thy neighbour We must confesse our selues before the consistorie of that true iudge where we neede not to pronounce with our tongue but in our constience our sinfull state which is not the close consistorie of popish shrift where without the tongue the priest can know nothing Yet again the same Doctor vpon the 50. Psal. Hom. 2. writeth moste plainlie Pecoata tua dictio vt deleas illa si confunderis elicui dicere quia peccasti dicito eaquotide in anima tuas non dico vt confiter 〈◊〉 seruo tuo vt exprobret dicito deo qui curateoe Haec enim si non dixeris ignorat ea Deus nunquid à te vultea 〈◊〉 Cùm faciehas ea practo erat cùm admitteres 〈◊〉 are non erubuisti confiteri erubescis dicito in 〈◊〉 vs in illa requiem habeas dicito ingemiscens lachrimans Declare thy sinnes that thou maiest 〈◊〉 them out if thou be ashamed to declare to any that thou hast sinned declare them dailie in thine owne soule I doe not saie that thou oughtest to confesse them to thy fellow seruent that he may cast thee in the teeth declare them to God which doth heale them For if thou shalt not declare them is God ignorant of them Or would he know them by thee when thou didest them he was present when thou didest commit them he knew Thou waste not ashamed to sinne and art thou ashamed to confesse declare thy sinnes in this life that thou maist haue rest in that life declare them groning and weeping With what conscience could the Master of the sentences first or any man after him wrest these words of Chrysostome to so contrarie a meaning But what durst they not doe which had giuen ouer them selues whollie to mainteine the corrupt customes of the Romish Church how concrarie soeuer they were either to the holie scriptures or to the testimonies of the auncient Doctors But you haue an inuincible argument to prooue plainlie that his onelie purpose was to bring men to confession and penance sacramentall you meane to Popish shrift For there he chargeth them saie you that they did not wcepe nor lament nor confesse their sinnes which he could not doe rightlie if those thinges were onelie inwardlie in cogitation and heart to be done For how could he knowthat they did not make confession Yes Master Allen beeing their pastour and ouerseer of their soules he might know by their outward sinfull and carelesse conuersation that they did not weepe nor lament nor confesse their sinnes before God For if they did dailie examine themselues as he chargeth them they would not haue bene so loose in life as they were and therefore you haue not so much as obscurelie prooued your purpose lest of al that it was Chrysostomes onelie purpose to driue his people to shrift which if it had beene a necessarie institution of Christ as you holde he would not haue beene so daintie for any offence of the weake as you make him to cal men vnto it vpon necessitie of saluation He that feared not openlie to reprehend the Empresse would he haue beene afraide of the peoples displeasure No no Master Allen Gods institution necessarie to saluation maie not be concealed though heauen and earth should runne together about the publishing thereof ALLEN But whosoeuer list see the moste assured and vndoubted meaning of this holie Father touching confession to apriest whereon I stand the longer because our aduersaries would picke quarells with Gods Church vpon certeine particles of his sentence let him read the second and third booke of the dignitie of priesthoode where he doth not onelie attribute more dignitie to that order then
Thus saith he in sense FVLKE This Nicephorus is too late a Greeke writer that we should approoue his iudgement for the necessitie or perpetuall practise of auricular confession Againe there is nothing but a fragment of an Epistle remaining by which we cannot thoroughlie gather what his iudgement was But this is manifest in him that men ought no more to confesse them selues to an vnlearned man then in sicknes to take counsell of one that is ignorant in phisike Againe he saith not as you report that once al men came confessed their sinnes to Bishopes But he gathered vpon the commission graunted to Bishoppes by those wordes which were spoken to Peter whatsoeuer thou shalt binde shal be bound and whatsoeuer thou shalt loose shal be loosed that olim omnes oportehat ad ipsos pontifices accedere suaque illis occulta prodere sic vel reconciliationem vel repudium ferre Ignoro autem quî factum sit cur haec minùs obseruentur quamuis existmem pontifices negocij taedio frequentique 〈◊〉 turbulentia defatigatos id operae ad Monachos transmisisse eos scilicet qui verè probati sint aliisque valeant esse vtiles nihil enim tale inexpertis indoctis permiserunt In times past it behoued all men to come to the bishoppes them selues to vtter their secretes vnto them and so to receiue either reconciliation or refusall But I am ignorant how it is come to passe that these thinges are not obserued although I thinke that the Bishoppes being wearied by the tediousnes of the busines and the often troublesomenes of the multitude haue set ouer that labour to the monkes namelie those that are trulie appooued and are able to be profitable vnto other for to vnexpert and vnlearned men they haue permitted no such thing In this writer there is nothing but his owne collection and coniecture which is not sufficient to 〈◊〉 mens consciences with a necessity of confessing all their secret sinnes to a Bishoppe or Monke and lest of all to an ignorant and vnlearned priest such as are and haue bene the moste rife and readie confessors among the papists ALLEN These therfore and manie other do testifie for their Church in what solemne vse sacramentall confession hath euer beene Wherein we haue the lesse need to stand long seeing the same Historie that our aduersaries doe sometime alledge plainlie reporteth not onelie in the Church of Constantinople but also in the West Churches and namelie at Rome alwaies since Nouatus the Heretikes false opinion touching penance rose a vertuous Priest sadde secret and wise was appointed to heare the sinnes of all men and was called the Pnitentiarie then as he and the like of that office he called yet We call them Confessours and of olde in Greeke they were named Spirituall Masters or Fathers as we now terme them in our Mother tongue Ghostlie Fathers also Quisecundùm vniuscuiusque culpam indicebant mulctans Who saith Sozomenus according to euerie mans fault prescribed due penance Which penance though it were often openlie done by the confessours appointment yet the sinnes were not knowne for which the penance was preseribed For the confession was secret or auricular as we call it now as is plaine by the historie else the Priest of that office should not haue beene charged with secrecie and silence though the confession sometimes was also open where the penitents deuotion or desire so required as it maie be yet For it is no matter for the substance of the sacrament whether it be publike or priuate And it is the condiscending to the peoples weakenesse that that should be so secret generallie which often in olde time hath beene open And yet I think no man was euer compelled by anie precept of the Church to confesse in the publike face of the Church his sinnes that were committed secretlie Though in Leo the greathis daies there was a custome not allowable that men were forced to giue vp a libell openlie of all their sinnes Which rigorous custome the said holie father afterward abrogated Neuerthelesse the penance was of olde often publike the forme whereof appeareth in Saint Ambrose in Tertullian who both haue written seuerall bookes De poenitentia in Saint Augustine in sundrie places and in this present Historie of Sozomenus And long after their daies there were called Poenitentes Penitents which were barred from the holie communion the secrets soueraigne holie of the blessed mysteries of the Masse so long as their prescribed penance indured besides fasting almes and other like penalties inioyed And especially in Lent time there were of these deuout publike penitentes as appeereth by diuerse orders of the seruice in the Church appointed agreeing to them who lightly were separated till the celebrating of the Lords supper passion in the holie daies next before Easter Whereof yet in most Churches there remaineth a small signe by discipline giuen to the people with roddes on the same daies But now these manie yeares the peoples feablenes considered there is no publike penance giuen nor receiued in the Sacrament much lesse open confession made of anie secret crimes the Church being well assured that this auricular confession sullie answereth Christes institution and agreeth also with the often practise of the Primitiue Church herein though the heretikes and some of their faulters as Beatus Rhenanus or who else soeuer wrot the preface that commonlie 〈◊〉 annexed to Tertullian denie the same And truly seeing their wanton pleasure is not to beare secret confession I dare saie they can much lesse awaie with publike penance or confession which is a thousand times more burdenous FVLKE There hath hitherto no ancient writer bin brought to testifie the necessitie of confession of secret sinnes nor that there is anie sacrament whereof such confession should be part The storie before remembred testifieth of the abolishing of such confession in the Church of Constantinople but that there was anie such Priest or confession vsed in the Church of Rome it maketh no mention but onelie sheweth that they which did open penance which was for open offences for which they were excommunicated were enioyned an exercise or triall after the performance whereof they were receiued into the Church againe As you thinke that no man for his sinnes committed secretlie was compelled to make confession in the publike face of the Church so doe I thinke that no man in those auncient and better times was euer compelled to make anie confession open or secret of all his secret faultes committed in thought word and deede The publike penance mentioned in Tertullian Ambrose Augustine was for publike offences The ridiculous discipline giuen with rodds in the popish Church by the verie name therof declareth that it is a mockery of the old discipline no signe of anie sacrament of confession And therfore as yet nothing is brought to prooue auricular confessing of secret sinnes to be a necessary institution of Christ or agreeable with the practise
him for neither Saint Paull Saint Cyprian nor the councell of Nice graunted such pardons to such persons and for such causes as he doth therefore he followeth not their example but his owne presumption Yet let vs see how this argument is fortified First the paine prescribed by law he maie release because he is the principall executor of the law But who will allow him anie such principalitie in the Church that is no member of the same Secondlie he maie remit the pennance enioyned by the Priest because he is superiour to all piestes which is nothing but a miserable begging of that which is in controuersie The like is to be said of his changing of penance whereby he challengeth the like authority Although his changing of sharpe pe nance into easie paiment doth bewray what is the end of such permutation money is intended whatsoeuer is pretended Vrbanus the 2. in the councell of Claremounte exhorting men of al nations to the warre of Ierusalem began that release of penance for seruing in that cause which his successours afterward haue vsed as a gaie and gainfull pretense when they were disposed to enrich their coffers and mantaine their priuate quarrels ALLEN The like they do also often to set forward other workes of charitie to the benefit of Gods people as for the relieuing of Hospitals of Churches of high waies and such like Sometimes againe they extende their power which Christ gaue them to edifie his Church and increase religion and deuotion in the people as when thy giue pardon for so manie daies to such as shall receiue the blessed Sacrament faste and praie that heresie maie cease in the Church that the enemies of Christianitie maie not preuaile that infidels Iewes and heretikes maie be conuerted and Schismatikes knit them-selues obedientlie to the fellowship of Chistes folde So doth the Pope for the encrease of zelous deuotion and aduancing Gods honour giue daies of remission or full pardon to such as shall vsuallie haue meditations of Christes passion and death by certaine holie praiers appointed or by visiting places in which there be seene some liuelie sieppes memories and expresse tokens of Christe miraculous workes or his Saintes Thus to helpe vp the dulnesse of praying and seruing God in our daies he geueth grace and pardon to such as shall freauent the Churches at the times of their dedication or on certaine principall Feastes there either to be confessed and receiue the 〈◊〉 sacrament or els to ioyne in praier and deuotion with other the faithful people that thither at those daies haue principall recourse Hereof we haue example not onelie in the storie of the institution of the solemne Feast of Corpus Christi but also in the great generall councell holden at Laterane For this cause also and the like maintenance of holie praier by which the Church of God moste standeth hath he mercifully with singular wisdome giuen a pardon of certaine daies or years to such as should deuoutlie occupie such beades books or praiers in all which things orderlie giuen reuerentlie receiued I see not what can be reprehended of anie but such as are offended with all workes and waies of mercie charitie and deuotion The power and iurisdiction is prooued lawfull the causes why he should exercise his authoritie herein be verie vrgent Gods honour with the peoples commodite exceeding well respected all thinges here do edify and nothing at all destroy all things do stande by good reason nothing can be reprooued either with rea son or good religion FVLKE You tell vs what the Pope doth but neither by what authoritic of the holie scriptures nor by what example of the holie auncient Church He could neuer sit in the Temple of God boasting him-selfe to be God except he had some religious colour to blinde the eies of the world which submitteth vnto his antichiristan power And yet all the world knoweth that monie obtained for hospitalles Churches beades bookes and such baggage all the pardons in a manner that haue beene graunted As for the pretense of setting forward the workes of charitie fasting praing c. is not onelie hypocriticall but also wicked For neither men muste be hired to the workes of charitie and other Christian exercises by pardon of their punishments but exhorted and charged for the loue of God and vpon their duties neither should a sale be made of that which ought to be freelie graunted if the Church had such authoritie For freely saith he you haue receiued therefore freely you ought to giue Therefore though you cannot see in this filthy nundination what is to be reprehended we can see nothing that can be defended where neither the power is proued lawfull nor the causes reasonable nor the end godlie whatsoeuer is pretended nor meanes by the worde of God or example of the Pimitiue Church allowable That not onelie the penance enioyned in the sacrament otherwise by canonicall correction but also such paine as God him selfe prouideth for sinne may be released by the Popes Pardons and that Purgatorie paines may especiallie be preuented by the same remissions THE 7. CHAP. ALLEN BVt now because some may by course of our matter looke that I should declare whether the Popes Pardons may release any whit of that paine which God himselfe putteth the penttent vnto after his sinnes be forgiuen I must somewhat stand hereupon the cause is weightie and much misliked of our aduersaries and some other perchance to that see not so farre into the matter as they should doe before they giue anie iudgement thereof That the gouernours of the Church should remit Canonicall correction and priuse satisfaction with the bonde of penance either enioyned or els which by the lawes spirituall might be enioyned manie will confesse But that their power should reach to the remitting of that paine which Gods hand hath laied vpon the offender of temporall correction that they vnderstand not Truely for this they must be instructed first that the temporall punishment which God taketh on sinners that be penitent though it standeth by the law of nature aud was practized of the laws of nature and was practized of God himselfe before anie mans lawes were made for puuishment of sinnes yet now it riseth prin cipallie vpon lack of punishing of our selues or the accomplishing of such penance as the Church of God prescribeth For if the Church punish her childrens faults by sharpe discipline doubtles it satisficeth Gods righteousnesse and he will not punish bis in id ipsum twise for one fault or if man earnestlie and sufficientlie iudge him-selfe God hath promised by S. Paul that he will not iudge him also that is to saie that he will not correct him with more heauie discipline of this life or the life to come for that signifieth this word iudicare as the Apostle him-selfe doth interpret it Then it followeth that the bond of anie temporall punishment to be inflicted by God him-selfe doth not now binde man otherwise then for the
homini Christtano indulgentia potest dari qui firmiter credat Papam posse dare se posserecipere habeat charitatem in affectu vt sit verè contritus confessus Of the parte of him that receiueth ae pardon it is required that he haue faith in vnderstanding because a pardon cannot be giuen but to a Christian man which steadfastlie beleeueth that the Pope is able to giue and he able to receiue and that he haue charitie in affection that he be truelie contrite and confessed More then this beside the fulfilling of the cause for which the pardon was graunted he doth not require In so much that he alloweth that a man maie receiue a pardon for his father and mother whether they be liuing or dead if the Pope doe so applie his pardon that he which will goe ouer the sea or to S. Iames in his fathers or mothers name shall inioie it for them and the receiuer doth performe as much for them The iust cause of graunt in the giuers is determined by the glosse aforesaid to be the honour of God and the exaltation of faith by such profitable workes as are expressed and required in the pardons as pilgrimage saying of such a praier giuing to such a fraternitie c. in which not the quantitie but the kinde of the worke is to be considered so that for a verie small worke maruelous large pardon maie be graunted if it please the Pope to whome the dispensation of the treasure of the Church is principallie committed for Bishops which are able to giue but fortie daies out of that treasure are but pettie baylies whome if you will accuse for lauishing the treasure in graunting of ouer large pardons you break the Canon lawe which telleth you that you must not call him to an account for his doings ALLEN Neuertheles the causes of giuing indulgencies may be more or lesse reasonable according to the state and varietie of thinges which to the wisdome of Gods Vicar in earth is best seene whome Christ so ruleth in that case that he maie be most beneficiall to his holie houshold in so much that it is not to be doubted but in these daies and in this great contempt of deuout and religious exercises the moouing onely of the people to prayer to holie peregrinations to the obedience of the Church may be a sufficient cause why there should be to praiers said vpon bookes beads or sanctified creatures for such purpose annexed great remission For looke what thinges be moste condemned of heretikes those things must Christian men be induced to reuerence with moste singular zeale religion Neither can there be anie thing in the worlde so necessarie for vs christian men of these times that be so voide of good workes as by deuotion and entire zeale to ioyne with our elders that in the holy communion of Sainctes we may be partakers of their vertuous deedes And that is the verie ende of all the Popes Pardons to make vs in our lake of satisfaction for our sinnes felowes and coparteners of the abundance that was in Christ first and then by him in our holy brethren departed before vs. FVLKE Throughout this chapter hitherto you haue disputed against the power of the Pope and the force of his pardons now it is time for you to coie him againe and to raise vp his pardons which you haue pressed downe so lowe Now the wisdome of Gods vicar is sufficient to iudge the causes of giuing indulgences and Christ so ruleth him in that case that he maie be moste beneficiall to his houshold in so much that it is not to be doubted but in these daies the Popes large pardons for litle workes may be of great force Then belike your former discourse serueth not for these daies that men muste fulfill their penance if they maie notwithstanding anie pardon that a pardon doth not remit anie good worke inioyned in penance that if a man lack power to fulfill this penance he must supplie it with other workes counteruailable or els the Popes pardons shall not be beneficiall to them at all or nothing so much as they seeme to sound But why saie you that in these daies Christ ruleth his Vicar in this case that he maie be most beneficiall to his holie houshold Hath not Christ as great care of his holy houshold the Church in all times and in all cases as in these daies and in this case Yes verilie But Christ hath not alwaies and in all cases ruled the Pope as it might be moste beneficiall to his Church for then his key of iurisdiction should neuer haue erred nor his life bene wicked to the great hurte and shame of his Church that I speake not of his criors in doctrine which you will not graunt as you doe the other Therfore it followeth that the Pope is not Christes vicar in earth appointed for the most benefite of his Church Your principle that thinges which heretikes doe hate must be moste reuerenced is false For nothing is to be esteemed more then the nature of the thing requireth whether it be loued or hated of heretikes The Anabaptists hate the wearing of armour it followeth not therefore that the wearing of armour should be counted a religious thing or more reuerenced then as a lawfull vsage and sometimes necessarie among Christians The verie end of the Popes pardons is well known to be the maintenance of the Popes pride and couetousnes the pretended end is wicked blasphemous derogating from the sacrifice of Christs death which is a full satisfaction and purging of all our sins the participation wherof is through faith wrought in our hearts by the spirite of God and not by the Popes application or coupling of anie Saintes merites with the onelie and omnisufficient sacrifice of Christ. ALLEN Vpon all which it is verie plaine that euerie man can not beneficiallie receiue the fruite of a Pardon this at least being requisite in euery man that listeth to attaine benefite thereby that he be in state of grace aud in earnest intent to continue in the knot of Christ his Church with loue and liking of the holie workes of his Christian brethren and accomplishing at least that small worke which commonlie now is ioyned to the Pardon for increase of Christian deuotion The continuance of which deuotion that more and more decaieth maketh the Pardons to be more common at this daie of late yeares then they were in the primitiue Church when moste men in the spring of Christian religion and feruour of faith sought to satisfie exactlie the debt of the penance or else which was a common case then recompensed it by Martyrdom though S. Gregorie the first of that name more then nine hundered yeare since in the ordering of the slations at Rome is knowne to haue giuen Pardons for yeares or daies in like forme as now is vsed And cleare it is that the thing it selfe being found lamfull no Protestant aliue can euer be able
FAVLTES ESCAPED IN THE first Booke Pag. 2. lin 37. Wylie 15. 11. vainelie 62. 21. renforce 64. 35. come 65. 8. the. 82. 8. runneth forth almost into ouer great 90. in the marg ad illumin 91. 4. soone 103. 28. immortall 111. 16. litterallie 118. 13. textes 33. as expreslie 124. 33. left 126. 13. one of other 130. 24. Spanianum 156. 32. without confusion 169. 26. brandes 177. 29. which with 184. 15. learned 186. 5. contra 206. 37. put out that 212. 8. hic 29. fiat hoc 215. 22. 〈◊〉 228. 1. is 237. 28. some 239. 17. haue 240. 30. a thought yet raueth 256. 8. dare not 274. 21. greatest fault 279. 31. Pacianus 280. 10. quotations 282 5. remaineth 299. read the 9. line before the 8. 309. 22 Ioh. 1. 321. 18. He faith 324. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 333. 8. de gen ad Lit. 336. 17. de Sp. S. 30. it is 36. not whatsoeuer 337. 36. suppose 351. 3. euer 352. in the marg cont 3. in margine 353. 37. is the. FAVLTES ESCAPED IN THE second booke Pa. 4. l. 2. to 7. 19. disorder 22. 9. euer 41. 12. to God 13. put out to 44. 33. to the. 49. 34. in the marg put out Allen. 37. where 103. 16. For. 114 8. Matthie 115. 1. thisplace 128. 23. the. 138. 2. expound 158. 6. grounded 173. 30. at hand 177. 24. strong ones 184. 2. by himselfe or by his saints and therefore remission ofsinnes by himselfe 186. 15. saide 201. 35. of mutuall offence 212. 5. but from 222. 1. as 〈◊〉 35. eordes 251. 36 Christes 311. 2. demurre 314. 3. that 〈◊〉 ters 17. Monkes 324. 28. delegaui 325. 33. put out 〈◊〉 334. 14. both 341. 1. halfe 35. deemed 342. 26. no 〈◊〉 345. 13. consortatiues 346. 33. false 350. 29. to the. 366. 27. 〈◊〉 30. I. 369 28. prostant 398. 15. mony 483. 30. put out not 521. 34 the marg 1. Ioh. 5. 529 2. and figures In the answere to Prarine p. put out the note in the marg TO THE READER AGainst this Popish and trayterous defense of the proude Censures giuen vpon Master Charkes and M. Hanmers bookes there hath bene alreadie set forth an answere conteining a maintenaunce of the creditte of those excellent Ministers and Elders of Gods Church which this malitious slaunderer hath sought to deface for staie of the simple reader till Master Charkes booke come forth There hath also bene printed and set forth by Doctor Fulke a briefe confutation of sundrie cauills and quarrel vttered by diuerse Papists against his writinges and speciallie by this Censurer in this his booke of defense whereby some parte of his vnhonest dealing is displayed to the discredite of this defender and to the shame of all Papists Neuerthelesse vnderstanding that Master Charke is not minded 〈◊〉 set forth his answere although he haue it 〈◊〉 written before this defender hath 〈◊〉 his wholl booke as he promiseth I haue thought it not amisse to write a shorte treatis for the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the matters of doctrine especially which are in controuersie betweene M. Charke and the Censurer either omitting or but breiflie touching the points handled more at large in the two 〈◊〉 books Neither do I thinke M. Charkes staying to be misliked for diuerse causes First to auoyd confusion which might ensue if the defender should replic vpon his answere to the first parte before the confutation of the second parte were finished published Secondlie to auoyd misunderstanding for that diuerse pointes touched in the first parte may be more at large and otherwise handled in the latter parte vpon vew whereof Master Charke would change his answere And last of all lest replying and reioyning vpon the first parte might be occasion that the latter parte should neuer be handled For which reasons and some other perhaps better knowne vnto him-selfe indifferent readers may gather that it is expedient for him to staie vntill he see the wholl charge of the aduersarie and then more orderly and seasonablie he may publish his answere altogeather But now to the purpose taken inhande Three tall fellowes step forth vpon this bulwarke of defense the Corrector of the printe the setter forth of the booke and the graunde Captaine defender himselfe The Corrector commeth forth with his parte to stoppe a gappe or emptie place of a page with the reall 〈◊〉 of a nowne Heretike and that presuming as he 〈◊〉 without the authors knowledge to wise a man belike to be made priuie of such gramaticall trifles But whereas he weeneth that by reading his authors treatise a man shall see the moste points verified in Master Charke and his companions he is fouly beguiled For there is no wise man but seeth all the pointes of his newlie deuised declension throughly verified in his author and his Complices who hath shewed himselfe to be not in one but in all cases a proude maleperte Lyar and an obstinate seditious Atheist 〈◊〉 hereunto an impudent heretike and a malitious traytor And if any man be so simple that he cannot yet perfectlie be holde all these pointes in his owne treatise yet in the answeres and confutations thereof he that will not acknowledge them to be verified in him is like to proue a nowne of the same declension with him Thus the Owlie Corrector hauing shotte his bolte out of the bulwarke which by euil happe of a contrarie winde is caried backe against him selfe and his owne freinds retireth into a corner and doth no more appeare sauing that some notes of his negligence here and there bewraying him do declare that this was not the first time that he was ouerseene in his life that he should haue done his Master better seruise if he had imploied the time he spent in deuising this grammatication in being occupied more diligentlie about his office of Correction The setter forth of this booke hath the next place who writing an epistle to Master Charke minister as he termeth him and as he is indeede of the Church of god in England vnder colour of expostulation of some particuler matters concerning the person of M. Charke taketh occasion to be a setter forth not onelie of a seditious slaunderous booke against the Church but also of moste spitefull accusations against the prince and Magistrates of the realme a sin the particuler vew of this epistle shall moste manifestlie appeare First therefore he excuseth the long delaie of setting forth this defense of the Censure which hath beene deferred more moneths then the Censure was daies in writing vpon such cause as is easie to iudge and speciallie to Master Charke which for the moste parte is priuie to the same The meaning is that the author is so quicke a dispatcher of his matters partely by meanes of the weakenes of our cause partelie by singuler dexteritie of his owne wit and learning that hauing finished his Censure in eight or nine daies space at the moste he coulde also in like proportionable time haue
forth against our Souereigne Lady Queene Elizabeth and yet because they doe most plainelie conuince him of the same horrible crime where of he was condemned I will here set downe the same as it is testified in the booke of execution of Papists for treason and not for religion Facultates concessae PP Roberto Personio Edmundo Campiano pro Anglia die 14. Aprilis 1580. PEtatur à summo domino nostro explicatio Bullae declaratoriae per Pium Quintum contra Elizabetham ei adhaerentes quam Catholici cupiunt intelligi hoc modo vt obliges semper illam haereticos Catholicos verò nullo modo obliget rebus sic siantibus sed tum demum quando publica eiusdem Bullae executio fieri poterit The answere to this and many other faculties by them required is this Has praedictas gratias concessit summus Pontifex patri Roberto Personio Edmundo Campià no in Angliam profecturis die 14. Aprilis 1580. praesente patre Oliuerio Manarco assistente Which is thus much in English Faculties to the two fathers Robert Persons and Edmund Campian for England the. 14. daie of Aprill 1580. LEt it be desired of our most holy Lord the explication of the Bull declaratory made by Pius the fift against Elizabeth and such as doe adhere vnto her which Bull the Catholikes desire to be vnderstood in this manner that the same Bull shall alwaies binde her and the heretikes but the Catholikes it shall by noe meanes binde as matters doe now stande but hereafter when publike execution of that Bull may bee made The highest Pontiff or Pope graunted these fore saide graces to father Robert Persons and Edmund Campian who are now to take their iourneyes into England the 14. day of Aprill 1580. Being present the father Oliuerius Manarcus assistant These things knowne considered it is euident that none but as honest a man as Campian could write that Campian was made away by cruell death without any shew or shadow of particuler crime committed by him against Prince or countrey or that Campian suffering for such horrible treason is a Martyr of Christ or that he and his fellowes died moste constant pure and innocent martyrs of their Lord and Master Iesus Christ. But for that Master Charke in person followed Campian to his execution as a conqueror of his aduersarie with bigge lookes sterne countenance proude wordes and merciles behauiour the author of the Censure was mooued to resume his answere as well for the honour of Christs martyr as for declaration of what value he is in reason learning and weight of argument by writing which is so feirce and violent upon Gods saints in death and torments so pompous in gate and speach vnto the people c. Here are many greeuous accusations but no proofe at all but the common reporte and that of trayterous Papists for no honest man will charge Master Charke with these crimes If he followed Campian it was not to insulte vpon his miserie but to exhort him to repentance What bigge lookes or stearne countenance he could put on in that time and case I cannot conceiue I hope all men that know his face will testifie that he looked then no otherwise then he doth at all times except commiseration of the damnable state of those obstinate traytors and heretikes did cause some tokens of heauines to appeare in his countenance What his proude wordes and mercilesse behauiour was in what pointe he shewed him selfe so feirce and violent vpon those trayterous heretikes in death and torments when you can declare but in three wordes you shall receiue an answere In the meane time you may not thinke that with any reasonable man it is sufficient for you to accuse him of pride in wordes and crueltie in behauiour when you bring no example nor proofe thereof And sure I am what wordes of his soeuer then vsed you may wrest to make a shewe of pride you are hable to alledge no action wherein you may declare his vnmercifulnes feircenes or violence As for his pompous gate and speach which you note in the last place I doubt not but all they which know him do laugh to heare you obiect it to him as also that you note him afterwarde to weare gorgeous apparrell and therein to haue excelled Campian His valew in reasoning learning and weight of arguments in writing what they are and how to be esteemed albeit his friendes know already yet I hope his aduersaries also shall in their conscience acknowledge especiallie after the smoke of your authors cauils be driuen away by the cleare light of trueth As for the disturbance thorough searchers and persecuters that you complaine of which caused your author to breake of in the middest is but a shift of descant For as your author whatsoeuer he be is still hidden so in his hiding place he may goe through if it please him or if he be weary of his enterprise he may take his ease without controlement For the extremitie of the time is not such though you whine neuer so much but if he can abstaine from vndermyning the state he may enioy more rest then an heretike deserueth to haue or then Papists in time and places of their gouernement wil afforde vnto true Catholikes But you saith the setter forth hauing gotten the starte before vs in the fauour of our Prince you follow the same with such vehemency and streightnes as you allow vs no one 〈◊〉 either of curtesie or humanity or of reasonable indifferency First marke how manerly he speaketh of our princes fauour as a matter not bestowed by iudgement but gotten by starte of that party that first steppeth vnto her Secondly how hyporbolically he describeth our vehemency no one iot of curtesie humanitic reasonable indifferencie Why sir who are you with whome we deal so streightly for whome we make search so diligently and punish so extreamely A wholl hundred of Papists and more be daylie in our sight dwell in their houses and suffer not so much as the lest ordinarie punishent which is appointed by law for them which come not to Church They be temporall men you will say Read the booke entituled the execution for treason c. and you shall finde a number of your cleargy men vsed with all curtesie and humanity that maie be shewed to men of a contrary religion It remaineth then that you are some rebeilious Iesuits or seminary priests which are sent hither by the Pope and his Antichristian adhaerents to alienate the princes subiects mindes yea to steal away their hearts from obedience of their Lawfull Soueraigne that you might by such meanes prepare a waie the soner for the publike execution of that blasphemous bul of Pius Quintus And would you wandring about with such intents and practises haue curtesie and gentlenes shewed you And yet when you are apprehended there is no duety of humanity denied you You haue the due triall of law and many times the deserued execution is forborne
be read of euerie man amonge you with your confutations And Doctor Windham then saide that no wise state would suffer it Neuerthe lesse our state God be thanked vpon conscience of trueth on our side hath with no lesse wisedome then good successe alwaies permitted your bookes with our answers to them to be read of all men to iudge indifferentlie so they conteine nothing but question of religion and not shamefull diffamations and inuectiues against the prince and the state of gouernement which matters deserue to be answered with an axe or an halter rather then with penne and paper But to permitte your bookes vnconfuted to haue free passage althoughe they passe with an hundred times lesse daunger then ours maie doe among you as you require it were neither wisedome godlines equitie nor reason AN OVERTHROVVE OF THE ANSVVERE TO Master Charkes preface touching Discerning of Spirites M. Chark beside the matter in question c. IF this answerer beside the matter in question had not made manie vnnecessarie and vnpertinent digressions the substance of his answere might haue bene contained almoste in as fewe lines as nowe it filleth leaues The triall of the Spirites which Saint Iohn requireth that is by the kinde of doctrine in teaching Christ and not the qualitie of the teachers Master Charke desireth the aduersaries refuse allowing nothing finallie but the onelie and falselie named title of the Catholike Church of Rome for them-selues and accusations of the persons some perhapes true some vtterlie false against vs. To this practize so manie popish treatises and this especiallie in hand doe giue testimonie This is the summe of Master Charkes preface Nowe commeth our answerer and because he had manie by-quarrels to deliuer he taketh occasion to vtter them in this place though litle or nothing pertaining to the direct confutation of Master Charkes preface First he chargeth Master Charke to saie that the Papists refuse Saint Iohns triall which is false for their bookes are extant wherebie they haue called to triall all sectaries of our time among whome he nameth Munster and Stancarus against whome I neuer heard what Papists haue exercised their style especiallie Stancarus holding one principle comming verie neare to their position of Christs priesthood to be onelie according to his manhood as Stancarus taught that Christ was a mediatour onelie after his humanitie but reade their bookes who shall and he must needes confesse Master Charkes saying to bee true For first or last they draw all triall to Rome and not to examine which doctrine giueth al glorie to God by Iesus Christ our onelie Sauiour which is the scope of Saint Iohns triall But if wee had not desired triall of Spirites saith he wee would not haue laboured so much to obteine the same of our aduersaries in free printing preaching or disputation You speake of great labor which none of vs euer heard that you tooke except it were in spreading a fewe coppies of Campians seditious libell not to the end of triall of spirites for discerning of trueth but to the stirring vp of mens bodies and mindes to treason and rebellion as the like labors by the like messengers tooke effect and make manifest demonstration in Ireland But if free printing preaching and disputation be a goodway for discerning of Spirites that Christ maie be knowne from Antichrist whie doe not you Papists graunt the same in Spaine Italie and other countreis thrall to the Popes tirannie yet assaulted by the doctrine of the gospell as by the power of Christ against Antichrist if it be not a good waie as it seemeth you thinke because you take it not your selues how can you saie that you require in those places this triall of spirites No no it is an other triall of the sharpest swordes that you meane when you require such triall of Spirites You adde further of the aduenturing of your liues in comming and offering the same to vs at home with so vnequall conditions on your side as you haue done and dailie doe for the triall of trueth There is no daunger of life among vs in offering the triall of Spirites according to Saint Iohns rule but in seeking to auerte the Queenes subiects from their duetifull obedience vnto her Maiestie to make a waie for the execution of the Popes moste blasphemous and traiterous Bull and this hath procured moste iuste and necessarie execution of some fewe of you and not as you slaunder iustice that offering to trie the truth hath obtained nothing hitherto but offence accusations extreame rackings and cruell death Againe these inequall conditions these daily offers these manie petitions and supplications that you speake of whoe hath made to whome haue they bene offered when were they presented where were they seene or heard by whome were they refused except Campians ridiculous challenge be all in all with you But what will a Papist spare to affirme that he maie make falsehood haue some likly shape of truth yet being admitted that you offer trial it must be seene whoe doe offer best meanes of triall And here you will endeuour to shew that all meanes of triall which Master Charke and his fellowes will seeme to allow in worde For they offer none in deede are neither sure possible nor euident but meere shifts to auoide all triall and that your selues do offer all the best and surest waies of triall that euer weere vsedin the Church for discerning an hereticall spirit from a Catholike Your indeuour is great but your abilitie is small for you shall neuer be able to demonstrate either the one or the other howsoeuer with vaine sophistications and wrested authorities you seeke to dasell the eies of the simple Let vs heare therefore howe you beginne The onelie meanes of triall you say which Master Charke will seeme to allowe is the scripture But this is a shift common to all heretikes especiallie of our time First you slaunder Master Charke in saying that he alloweth the scripture to be the onelie meanes of triall of spirites whereof he speaketh not at all in this preface but of triall of spirites by the doctrine of Christ which is moste plainlie and certenlie set forth in the holie scriptures and therefore by the holie scriptures the doctrine maie best and moste certenlie be tried and iudged But that Master Charke by referring him selfe to the holie scriptures onelie as suffiâ—â—â—n and â—â—le to decide all controuersies of Religion doth denie or exclude all other meanes of 〈◊〉 whereby the true meaning of the scripture may be knowne it is impâ—dent he affirmed without either proofe or likelihood of truth as hereafter more plainlie will appeare Saint Augustine as though he were an enimie of conâ—â—â—â—ing heresies by the authoritie of the scriptures onelie is quoted in the margent de nupt Concup lib 2. cap. 31 whose words are these Non est miâ—â—am si Pelagiani dicta nostra in sensus 〈◊〉 volunt detoâ—quere conaâ—tur quando de scripturis sanctis non vbi obscurè
her not doth better Whereof we inferre that virginitie is more acceptable and meritorious before God then mariage although mariage be holie No saie our adversaries Saint Paull meaneth onelie that he doth better before men and in respect of worldlie commmodities but not before God If you aske him which of his aduersaries doe saie so he is not able to name one for in truth we neuer saide so not thinke so But that which he saith they doe infer vpon the text that virginitie is more meritorious before God the mariage we doe vtterlie denie and we saie furthet that all the Papists in the world shal neuer be able by lawfull and true arguments to infer so much vpon these wordes of the text or to iustifie this kinde of inferring virginitie is better before God ergo it is more meritorious for the antecedent which we graunt doth not prooue the conclusion which we denie Therefore when out of the circumstances of the text he prooueth that virginitie is better in respect of God as a more excellent gift of God he taketh more paines then he needeth For we confesse as much that he that ioyneth not his virgin doth better not onelie in respecte of worldlie commodities or before men but also that shee maie be holie before the Lord in bodie and spirit c. then he that ioyneth her in mariage but that he doth better in respect of merite reward in the life to come as the answerer saith it doth not follow thereof I meane for the merite As for the reward which God bestoweth of his meere mercie doth not prooue anie merite or desert of the partie rewarded For he which vseth the gift of God well by the power and strength which he hath of God shall of Gods goodnesse not misse of his reward but he cannot therebie claime reward of dutie or of merit neither doth the text alleadged by him prooue any such thing Some Eunuchs haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen therefore they haue deserued the kingdome of heauen therebie Such licentious kinde of inferring will not onelie make poperie to stand if it were lawfull but also might be able to iustifie all heresies that euer were by scripture But bring these illations or inferrings to the iudgement seate of Logicke and they will easilie appeare to be voluntarie glosles and not true expositions or necessarie collections Yet these new doctors saith our answerer doe contemne and 〈◊〉 all authoritie antiquitie wit learning sanctitie of our forefathers and of all men yea of their owne new doctors and masters when they come to be contrarie to any new deuise or later fansie of theirs Because we may not receiue euerie interpretation or opinion of euerie of the fathers he maketh this hideous outcrie against vs. And yet we are alwaies readie to shew and haue often performed the same that in the most and greatest controuersies the auncient Doctors are against them verie cleere on our side Therefore it is an impudent slaunder that we reiect or contemne all authoritie antiquitie witte c. of our forefathers as it is a ridiculous argument that he bringeth of our dissent from our late doctors and masters as he termeth them because we follow not the error of Luther about the reall presence and the vse of Images as for the number of the sacraments and bookes of the Bible we holde with Luther in his last iudgement when he was best instructed in those cases The order of seruice is free for euerie Church to vse diuerselie as maie serue best for edification The popish Churches haue diuers vses of seruice as Sarum Yorke Bangor Hereford in England they had how manie then diuers orders abroade But Caluine he saith is reiected about the head of the Church in England which is a manifest vntrueth for Caluin is euen of the same iudgement concerning the Princes authoritie in causes ouer persons Ecclesiasticall as is euident in his Institutions that we are in England onelie he misliked the terme supreme heade as offensiue though not euill as it was vnderstood of the godlie and that terme is forborne in England for the same cause and another of supreme gouernour vsed which signifyeth as much as was ment by the other when it was rightlie vnderstoode As for the gouernment of the Church in Geneua Caluine did neuer binde all other Churches to vse the same what other pointes are reiected in Beza he hath no leisure to tell vs. But that all the Churches of the Protestants as he calleth vs in Europe do agree in the chiefe and principall articles of Religion the Harmonie of their confessions latelie set forth in print doth giue ful moste sufficient testimonie Ceremonies and for me of externall gouernment were neuer in gods Church accounted necessarie to be all one in euerie particular Church And some men maie haue their priuat opinions sometime perhapes vntrue yet retaining the vnitie of faith in the chiefe grounds and foundation of Religion with them that dissent from them either iustlie or vniustlie Wherefore our answerers finall conclusion doth not followe that Protestants will haue onelie that to be taken for trueth which they last agree vpon and their wordes must be the one ie proofe thereof whereas the worlde can testifye that the holie scripture is our ground and from thence we challenge the best proofe not refusing any other lawful proofes that wil stand with the iudgement of holie scripture where it is most plaine and easie to be vnderstoode euen without anie interpretations The bookes of the scripture we receiue which the Church of God among the Iewes before Christ and the moste auncient Church of the Gentiles since Christ hath receiued and allowed the sense we take euen out of the same bookes and bring no foreine sense vnto them all writtings of men olde and new we examine according to the same praising God for such helpe as we haue by his giftes in them to vnderstand his word yet leauing to them without reproch such things as proceeded from them selues without the warrant of that worde and this haue all true Catholikes alwaies done and no heretike is able to doe albeit he woulde professe neuer so much to doe To the former slaunders our answerer will haue vs adioyne this that our aduersaries saith he notwithstanding all request sute offer or humble petition that we can make will come to no publike disputation or other indifferent and lawfull iudgement but doe persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer the same Touching anie lawful request sute or humble petition made in due manner to them that haue authoritie to graunt I neuer hard of anie onelie the seditious challenge of Campian is all the request sute offer and humble petition that he is able to prooue was euer made by them for anie such matter before the publishing of this answere of his As for them that persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer disputation which he calleth
their aduetsaries it is well knowne that Master Charke and the ministers of the Church are none such neither haue they anie such authoritie It remaineth then that he accounteth the Prince her councell magistrates and ministers of Iustice his aduersaries who indeede haue good cause so to be not onelie in respect of their heresyes but also in regard of their manifolde and almoste infinite practises of treason against the Prince and realme for which some of them haue suffered moste iustlie and not for offering of disputation as this traiterous heretike euerie where moste slaunderouslie doth avowe But nowe for their partes he saith they offere the best surest and easiest meanes that can be deuised or that haue bene vsed in Gods Churches for triall and they are manie in number The first is the bookes of Scripture receiued vpon the credit of the auncient Church of which we are content saith he to accept for canonicall and allowe all those and none other which antiquitie in Christendome hath agreed vpon But this is false for to omit that they receiue for canonicall such as the Church of God before Christ neuer receiued they receiue also such as the greatest and best antiquitie in Christendome receiued not as the Church in Origens time witnesse Eusebius more then the Church of Rome receiued in Saint Ieromes witnesse Ierome himselfe prologo Galeato and Ruffinus in Expossymb more then the Councell of Laodicea did receiue for canonicall as is manifest by the 59. canon The second way of trial is the expresse plaine words of Scripture wherein they must needs be farre superior for what one expresse plaine text haue they saith he in anie one point or article against vs which we doe not acknowledge liberallie as they doe and as the wordes doe lie yes we haue manie but a fewe shal serue for example God saith Exod. 20. Thou shalt not make to thy selse anie grauen image c. thou shalt not fall down to thē nor worship them Againe Matt. 4. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onelie shalt thou serue Which are moste plaine expresse and manifest against worshipping of Images and other creatures in anie vse of Religion Christ saith drinke ye all of this they be expresse and manifest wordes against the popish sacriledge of the cuppe The 14. to the Corinthians the first Epistle is expresse and plaine against publike praiers homilies lessons in a straunge vnknowne tongue 1. Tim. 4. in expresse and plaine wordes the spirite pronunceth the forbidding of marriage and meates to be the doctrine of deuilles And Heb. 13. Mariage is honourable in all men And 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. a Bishop Elder or Deacon must be the husband of one wife beside a great number more But the papists saith our answerer haue infinit texts against vs which we cannot admit without glosses and fond interpretations of our owne A bolde speach as alwaies he vseth but it shall alwaies be founde that if we doe in anie text departe from the grammaticall sense there is necessarie cause why as if it be a figuratiue spcach which is tried either by circumstances of the same place or by other texts of scriptures for the most parte hath the iudgement of the most auncient writers agreing with our interpretation But the most of these examples he bringeth haue nothing in shewe that the expresle wordes of scripture are with them or against vs but by their fonde false vnreasonable collections and such as they can neuer conclude in lawful true syllogismes as for example We haue it saith he for the supremacie expresselie saide to Peter that signifieth arocke vpon this rock will I builde my Church We answere that we might followe the interpretation of the most auncient and approoued fathers that the rocke here spoken of is Christ whom Peter confessed but graunting them that they could neuer euict we confesse that the Church is builded vpon the foundation of Peter the Apostle but not vpon him alone or more principallie then vpon all the Apostles who are all rockes or stones vpon whose foundation as also vpon the foundation of the Prophets the Church of Christ is builded Neither is it possible to prooue the supremacie of the Pope out of those wordes of scripture or anie other But they haue further expresselie touching the Apostles he that is great among you let him be as the younger Luk. 22. We haue no where there is none greater then other among you Neither do we holde that none ought to be greater then other among vs but that the greatest among the ministers ought to be seruant of all the rest and that none ought to exercise Dominion ouer the Lordes inheritaunce yet the primacie of order we graunt euen among the Apostles according to which Iames was president of the Councell at Ierusalem Peter the cheife Aposlle of the circumcision Paull of the gentiles all which will not serue one whit to maintaine the popish tiranny For Paul was nothing inferiour to the highest Apostles But for the reall presence they haue expreslie This is my bodie we haue no where this is the signe of my bodie Neither doe we denie the sacrament to be the bodie of Christ neither doe we affirme that it is a bare signe But that this is a figuratiue speach we haue expreslie This cuppe is the newe Testament in my blood and as expreslie the Apostle speaking of the same sacrament the rocke was Christ which prooueth that it must be vnderstoode in a sigue and after a spirituall manner and so doe al the olde Doctors interpretit as hath beene often shewed We haue expreslie saith he The bread that I will giue you is my flesh Iohn 6. they haue nowhere It is but the signe of my flesh And we confesse as much for we neuer saide that the signe of Christs flesh was crucified for vs but his verie naturall bodie which he promiseth in that text to giue for the life of the world which by faith and the spirit of God is made the spirituall foode of all the elect children of God and without eating of which none can be saued Ioh. 6. 53. But they haue expresly A man is iustified by works and not by faith onelie Iames. 2. we haue no where a man is iustified by faith alone no nor that he is iustified by faith without workes talking of workes that followe faith First we confesse the text that a man is iustified by workes As Abraham was when he offered his sonne and as Rahab was when she receiued the spies that is a man is declared to be iust in the sight of men For Abraham was iustified before God by faith before he offered his sonne whome God did not trie to enforme himselfe but to declare vnto men by the fruites of obedience that Abraham was a iust man euen so by faith the harlot Rahab perished not with the vnbeleeuers when the receiued the spies in peace but by receiuing
doth not he ouerthrow of all Christian commmon wealthes Luthers short answere to this is Hoc non de ciuilibus legibus sed de Ecclesiasticis dixi est sententi a Pauli Coll. 2. This I speake not of ciuill lawes but of Ecclesiasticall lawes and it is the sentence of Saint Paul Coll. 2. What foundation now doth he ouerthrow or teach of any Christian common wealth when he speaketh of the freedome of conscience from all constitutions of men These be the great monsters of impiety which cut the sinewes of al vertue do open the high way to all dissolution Wil you neuer be ashamed to slaunder their doctrine which you are not hable to confute But now for the bodelie and sensible conference of Luther with the deuill you wonder with what face Master Charke can denie it we wonder with what mouth you can affirme it That the Tygurines giue testimonie of it is a lie as I haue shewed before And the wholl discourse of Luthers wordes shall make manifest that his confession is onelie of a spirituall fight in minde no bodelie conference as Master Charke answered at the first His wordes in his booke de missa priuata vnctione sacerdotum are these Sed forsitan agnoscatis quà m firmis nitatur columnis vestra causa si in horam incidatis tentationum Eg o coram vobis reuerendis sanctis patribus confessionem faciam date mihi absolutionem bonam quae vobis opto quà m minimum noceat Contigit me semel sub mediam noctem subitò expergefieri Ibi Satan mecum caepit eiusmodi disputationem Audi inquit Luthere doctor per docte nostietiam te quindecim annis celebrasse missas priuatas quotidie Quià si tales missae horrenda essent idololatria c But peraduenture you may acknowledge vpon how sure pillers your cause leaneth if you fall into the howre of tentation I will make my confession before you reuerend holy fathers giue me good absolutition which I wish may hurt you least It happened that once I waked sodainlie about midnight There Satan began this disputation with me Hearken saith he thou verie wel learned Doctor Luther c. thou knowest also that thou hast saide the priuate Masse by the space of 15. yeares almost euerie daie what if such priuate Masses were horrible idolatrie c These words are manifest that Luther speaketh of a spirituall temptation such as euen good men are subiect vnto in which Sathan obiecteth vnto the conscience of men such things wherein they haue offended God moste greeuouslie The atguments that the deuill layeth against him are not so much against the Masse as against Luthers sinne to bring him in dispaire for saying masse being a sinfull man as appeereth by these wordes which he attributeth to the deuill Prome vbi scriptum est quód homo impius incredulus possit assistere altari Christi 〈◊〉 ac conficere infide Ecclesiae vbi iussit ac praecepit hoc deus Bring forth where it is written that an vngodly man an vnbeeleeuer may stand at the altar of Christ and consecrate and make the sacrament in the faith of the Church where hath God bidden or commaunded this For Luther had defended him-selfe and sought to quiet his conscience because he was an annointed priest because he celebrated in the faith of the Church although he was vnworthie in respect of the weakenes of his owne faith the multitude of his sinnes But this you clippe as your note booke serued you which was not of your owne gleaning Agè prome vbi scriptum est vbiiussit aut praecepit hoc Deus Goe to now shew me where the masse is written in scripture where hath God commaunded it and scoffe at the Protestants fashion of disputation and conclude that Luther not beeing able to answere finallie yelded to banish the masse vpon the deuills appointment which is a tale of a tubbe for there is no such conclusion but that Luther by faith in the merites of Christ ouercame this temptation For after his conflict described thus he proceedeth Hîc respondebunt mihi sanctissimi patres hîc ride bunt dicent tune es doctor ille celebris non nosti respondere Diabolo An ignoras Diabolis esse mendacem papè vestro merito vobis gratias ingentes ago pro tam suaui consolatione in re tanta Has tres voculas Diabolus est mendax ignorassem ego 〈◊〉 nisi monuissetis vos eximij theologotati Si papista essem omnium tentationum ruà is quem securum 〈◊〉 Satan negligeres vt ipsos negligit indulgentes suis cupiditatibus c. etiam talis gigas essem contra absentem hostem alacer fortis Sed si vobis sustinendi essentictus Diaboli audiendae disputationes non diu essetis cantilenam de Ecclesia veteri recepto more cantaturi equidem satis video in Dauid reliquis Prophetis qu à m grauiter luctentur ingemiscunt in his certaminibus similibus contra diabolum horribilem impetum eius Et Christus ipse quamuis sine peccato propter nos in quantis lachrimis in quibus angustiis agonizauit in his agonibus contra satanam Vrget enim in immensum corda nec 〈◊〉 niss repulsus verbo dei Et ego planè persuasus sum Emser um Oecolampadium similes his ictibus horribilib quassatio nib subitò extinctos esse Nec n. humanum cor horrer dum hunc ineffabilem impetum nisi deus illi adsit perferre potest Satan enim in 〈◊〉 oculi repente totam mentem terr oribus ac te nebris adobruit si nihil quà m hominem inermem verbo no instructum inuenit quasi digitulo totum 〈◊〉 Verum qui dem hoc est quód mendax sit sed eius mendacia non sunt simplicis artificis sed longè callidiora instructiora ad fallendum quà m humanus captus assequi possit Ipse sic adoritur vt apprehendat aliquam solidam veritatem quae negarinon possit atque eam adeo callidè versutè vrget acuit adeo speciose fucat suum mendacium vt fallat velcautissimos c. vtî cogitatio illa quae Iudae cor percussit vera Tradidi sanguinem iustum hoc Iudasnegare non poteratised hoc erat mendacium ergo est desperandum de gratia Dei Et tamen diabolus hoc mendacium hanc cogitationem tam violenter vrsit vt Iudas eam vincere non possit sed desperaret Proinde bone frater domine papista non mentitur Satan quando accusat aut vrget magnitudinem peccati ibi enim habet duos inconuincibiles graues testes legem dei nostram propriam conscientiam Non possum negare quòdreus summortis damnationis c. Sed ibi mentitur Satan quando vltrà vrget vt desperem de gratia Sicut Cain dicebat maius est peccatum meum c. Et ibi tum opus est in
the Lordes daie Here you cauill that there is no mention of Saturdaie or sondaie much lesse of celebration of either and least of all of the changeing of the Sabbath into an other daie But if it please your Censurship are you ignorant what day of the weeke is called dies Dominicus the Lordsday whether saturdaie or sondaie if it be sondaie as al professors of Christes name confesse here is as much mention thereof as is needfull for the daie into which the change is made Or if that be not sufficient you maie haue further Act. 20. 7. 1. Cor. 16. 2. And whie is the first of the Sabbath called the Lordes daie but in respect of the celebration there of in honour of the redemption of the world by Christ For otherwise all daies of the weeke are the Lordes daies in respect of their creation Thirdlie seeing the Lordes daie was one daie in the weeke vsed for the assemblie of the Church for their spirituall exercises of Religion it is certaine that the change of the Iewish Sabbath was made into that daie except you would be so waywatd to saie there were two daies in euerie weeke appointed by God to be celebrated whereas the lawe of God requireth but one and giueth libertie of bodelie exercise in sixe daies So that the change of the Sabbath daie is sufficientlie prooued out of the Scripture into the Lordes daie The sixt point is about foure Gospells and the Epistle to the Romanes which Master Charke saith to be prooued out of the scripture but yet he quoteth no place of scripture where onelie he saith the inscription expresseth the names of the writers But what a mocker is this you saie Are the bare names of the Apostles sufficient to prooue that they were written by them who can prooue by scripture that these names are not counterfet as in the Epistle to the Laodiceans in the Gospells of Bartholomew and Thomas c. But abide you sir your question hath two branches the one that the 4. Go spells are true Gospells the other that the epistle to the Romanes was written by Saint Paul and not that to the Laodiceans To the former it is answered that they are prooued by other vndoubted bookes of the scripture both of the olde testament and the new secing they declare that to be fullfilled of Christ which was spoken in the lawe in the Prophetes and in the Psalmes To the other it is answered that admitting the Epistle to the Romanes to be scripture the inscription of his name is sufficient to prooue that it was written by Saint Paull And so of therest Although the name of the writer is not materiall vnto saluation when the booke is receiued to be Canonicall as diuers bookes of scripture are receiued whose writer is vnknowne That Epistle which is called to the Laodicians is not receiued and therefore the inscription is vnsufficient as the Gospelles of Bartholomew and Thomas and such like which are knowne to be countefet by the dissent they haue from the other canonicall scriptures Whereas you require one place of Scripture to prooue all the foure Gospelles to be canonicall you declare your wrangling and wayward spirit But name you anie one point of Doctrine writen in anie of those foure Gospells and the same shall be aduouched by other textes of scripture and so maie eucrie point conteined in them if neede were But you affirme that Origen saith he reiecteth the Gospell of Saint Thomas onelie for that the tradition of the Church receiued it not Which is false He saith he hath read the Gospell after Thomas after Mathias and manie other Sed in his omnibus nihil aliud probamus niss quod Ecclesia idest quatuor tantùm euangelia recipienda But in all these we allowe nothing els but that which the Church alloweth that is that onelie foure Gospells are to be receiued In these wordes he affirmeth that he approoueth the iudgment of the Church he saith not that the iudgement or traditions of the Church was the onelie cause whie he reiected those Gospells for he said before they were receiued of heretikes and wherefore but in maintenance of their heresie which is contrarie to the holie scriptures That all counterfet Go spells were reiected by the Church it is confessed but the Church had this iudgement of discretion confirmed by the canonical scriptures against which Epiphanius saith nothing But when Faustus the Manichie denied the Gospell of Saint Mathew saie you saith not S. Augustine Mathaei Euangelium probatum aduersus Faustum Manichaeum per traditionem The Gospell of Mathew was alleged against Faustus the Manichie by tradition August lib. 28. Cont. Faust. c. 2. If you aske me I saie no he hath no such wordes Yet doth he auouch the Gospell of Saint Mathew in that Chapter by testimonie of the Church from the Apostles by continuall succession euen vnto his time against the Maniches but in far other words then you haue set downe in steed of Saint Augustines wordes by which the reader maie once against perceiue how impudentlie and ignorantlie you ailedge whatsoeuer the note booke which was neuer of your own gatheriug because you vnderstood it not did minister vnto you For these are the wordes of the collector of your notes not of S. Augustine Maie not the papists haue great ioie of such a Cenfure defender Yet you triumph like a Iustie champion and aske what can be more euident then all this to prooue our opinion of the necessitie of tradition to confound the fonde madnes of this poore Minister Alas poore defender what waightie euidencethou hast brought to prooue the necessity of tradition which prooueth thee to be a blind beggerlie yet a bolde brocher of other mens notes which thou vnderstandest not thy selfe The seuenth doctrine which is required to be prooued out of the scripture is that God the father begat his sonne onelie by vnderstanding him-selfe Here Master Charke in steede of these darke wordes out of Thomas how the father begat the sonne wisheth cleare and perfect wordes in so high a mysterie which you saie are plaine and vsuall to those which haue studied any thing in diuinitie As though there were no diuinitie in the holie scriptures and so many of the auncient fathers which haue neither this question nor these wordes but that al diuinity were included in the brest of Thomas Aquinas and such doctors as he was That he quoteth a place or two of the scripture to prooue that Christ was the onelie begotten sonne of God you make smal account of seeing the question is of the māner how this generation maybe which the Church de fendeth against the aduersaries And here you insult against M. chark as ignorant in those high points of diuinitie whereas Catholiks know what the Church hath determined herein against heretikes and infidels as though either of both cared for the Churches determination if the one were not vanquished by scripture the other by right reason
peece of Gods worde and traditions are an other peece and this peece must be added to that or els it is not a perfect or sufficient instruction of itselfe for Gods Church The comparison you make of ioyning S. Lukes Gospell to that of Saint Matthew or Saint Paules epistles to them both to resemble your patching of traditions to the written word of God is both odious and vnlike and without begging the wholl matter in question gaineth nothing For the adding of the writings of one Euangelist to another or of an Apostle to the Euangelistes is but the heaping of heauenlie treasure to the further inriching of the Church in all light of spirituall knowledge so the accession of the bookes of the new testament is as it were the vnfolding or laying open of the same diuine riches that was perfectlie contayned in the olde testament for the saluation of all Gods elect that liued vnder that discipline But your traditions as you maintaine them argue an insufficiencie of the holie scriptures which allso you confesse your selfe and are not a more plaine or plentifull application of the mysteries comprehended in them Therefore though you can for manners sake otherwhile forbeare odious speeches aginst the dignitie of holie scriptures yet euen that odious conclusion gathered by Gotuisus must needes follow of your doctrine concerning the insufficiencie of scriptures and the necessitie of traditions That your traditions are Gods word and of equall authoritie with the scriptures you promise to shew more largelie in the twelft article together with certaine meanes how to know and discerne the same Sed haec in dicm minitave Parmeno You haue taken a pretie pause of three yeares long since you were interrupted as you 〈◊〉 in the end by a writte de remouendo But the daie will come that shall paie for all Whether anie cause or matter hath beene ministred by you of odious speeches against the dignitie of holie scriptures Mastet Charke declareth by one example out of Hosius which with all the rest that he saith you omit to answer as trifling speech to litle purpose So whatsoeuer by anie colour of reason you can not auoid by your censorious authoritie you maie contemne and passe ouer But his conclusion seemeth worthie the answer which he maketh in these wordes To conclude it is a great iniquitie to adde traditions or your vnwritten verities to the written word of God whereunto no man maie adde because nothing is wanting from which no man maie take because nothing is superfluous But to him that addeth shall the curses written in the booke be added for euer Against this conclusiō you note in the margent great iniquitie to adde one veritie to another or to beleeue two verities together A fine ieste but a grosse begging of the wholl cause For who shal graunt that your vnwritten vereties be truth and not falsehood falselie by you termed verities vnwritten There is no veritie of matters necessarie to be knowne vnto saluation which is not written in the holie scriptures that are hable to make vs wise vnto saluation But good Lord what a sturre you keepe because M. Chatk noteth in the margent Apoc. 22. ask how this place is alledged against you c. As though that which is true of one booke yea of euery booke of the scripture maie not iustlie be verefied of the wholl bodie and boke of the the Bible Because adding to the word of god argueth imperfection in the word of god Your stale obiection of Saint Iohns Gospell written after the Reuelation is alreadie answered For al bookes of scripture that haue beene written since the fiue bookes of Moses are no addition to the word of God but a more cleere explication of the 〈◊〉 first com mitted to writing by inspiration of God Neither do they teach an other waie of saluation then Moses did but set forth the same more plainlie by demonstration by examples of Gods iustice and his mercie by threatenings by exhortations by explication of his promises by shewing the accomplishment and the manner of perfourmance of them in Christ and his Church And this they do moste absolutelie sufficiently and plentifully to the saluation of Gods people These things saith S. Iohn are written that you should beleeue that Iesus is Christ the sonne of God and that beleeuing you maie haue euerlasting life in his name Here you maie as well cauill that not onelie the Gospell of Saint Iohn or the miracles written in the same is necessarie to be beleeued vnto saluation but all the rest of the scripture also foolishlie opposing thinges that are no waie repugnant but the one including the other For the beleeuing of Saint Iohns Gospell doth not exclude but include all other bookes and partes of holie scripture which teach the same meane of saluation or any thing thereto pertaining But how holdeth this argument saie you no man maie adde to the booke of Apocalips ergo no man maie beleeue a tradition of Christ or his Apostles Maie we not as well saie ergo we maie not beleeue the actes of the Apostles No sir for we make our argument in this man ner No man maie adde to the booke of the Apocalips much lesse may anie man adde to the wholl Bible of the olde and new testament And consequentlie there are no traditions of Christ and his Apostles to be credited as needefull to saluation which are not contained in the holy scriptures Thus we alledge scriptures and thus we argue vppon them not as it pleaseth you to deseant vpon our allegations and to dissigure our arguments But it is lamentable you saie to see the 〈◊〉 dealings of these men in matters of such importance It is verie true vnderstanding you and your complices to be the men that vse such fleightes in 〈◊〉 waightie causes As for our doctrine is plaine without any seame that the scriptures are sufficient to saluation therfore al tradition besides them are 〈◊〉 to that purpose But let vs see who 〈◊〉 sleightes by your iudgement First you aske Master Charke what he 〈◊〉 by adding Who doth adde Or in what sense as though his meaning and sense of adding were not manifest as also his accusation that the I suites the Papistes do adde to the word of God their traditions a necessarie to saluation yet not expressed or contained in the word of God But if God saie you left anie doctrine by tradition vnto the Church and our ancetours haue deliuered the same vuto vs especiallie those of the 〈◊〉 Church what shall we do in this case Shall we refuse it It seemeth dangerous and I see no reason The question is not whether we should refuse anie thing that God hath left but whether God hath left anie such tradition to be beleeued vnto salua tion which is not contained in the holie scriptures But if our ancetours of the primitiue Church haue deliuered anie such tradition vnwritten as left by Christ what shall we doe you
For at this daie the Bishops that be throughout all Christendome how rose they to that roome The Church calleth them fathers and yet shee did beget them and she placed them in that roome of their fathers Non ergo reputes desertam quia non vides Petrum quòd non vides Paulum quòd non vides illos per quos nataes de prole tua tibi creuit paternitas pra patribus tuis natisunt tibi filij constitues eos principes super omnem terram Do not therefore think thy selfe desolate because thou hast not Paull because thou hast them not now present by whome thou wast borne of thy owne issue fatherhood is growne to thee and for thy fathers thou hast brought forth sonnes them shalt thou make the rulers ouer al the earth Thus much out of Saint Augustine By whome you maie perceaue the great prouidence of God that euerlastinglie vpholdeth the ordinance of his sonne Christ Iesus as well now by the children borne from time to time in the Churches lap as before in the spring of our faith by the Apostles sent and appointed in person by Christ him-selfe FVLKE I suppose the title of your booke will admonish you not to restraine this office onelie to Bishops which so often you haue made common to all priestes For Gregory also in the same homyly nameth often times all pastours of the Church to whome the power of binding and loosing doth appertaine which are many other beside Bishops Moreouer inueighing against the ignorance and vnworthines of them that occupied such places which take vpon them to loose where God doth binde and binde where God doth loose he concludeth that then the absolution of the gouernours of the Chuch is true when it followeth the will of the eternall Iudge By which saying and more to the like effect in that place he declareth his iudgement of the kinde of power or authoritie which the Church hath that it is not absolute but subiect vuto the will of God and is an expressing of Gods forgiuenes or retaining not a proper forgiuing or retaining The saying of Saint Augustine prooueth in deede a continuance of the ministery of the Apostles in the office of Bishops but hereof it followeth not that onelie Bishops as they are distinct from priestes haue this power for not onelie Bishops be the children of the Church but all faithfull men to whome the inheritance of the world is like wise appointed ALLEN And here you must know that not onelie Bishops who succeede the Apostles in all kinde of power and regiment but also all other inferiour Priestes to be compted with them as successors in ministring diuerse sacraments as baptisme penance the reuerend Sacrament of the Aultar and such like but looke what power either Apostle or Bishop hath in remission of sinnes in consecrating Christes bodie in baptizing the same hath the wholl order of holie Priesthood by the right of their order and maie practize the same vpon such as be subiect vnto them in all causes not exempted for reasonable causes by such as haue further iurisdiction ouer the people Wherof I will not now talke particularlie the learned of that order know the limits of their charge and commission better then I can instruct them and the simpler sort must seeke for knowledge of their duetie by the holie Canons of Councels and decrees of Bishops made for that purpose I can not now stand thereon meaning at this present onelie to defend the holie order and challenge for it such right as the scripture and Chistes owne word giueth which in this contempt of vertue and religion is moste necessarie for all men to consider FVLKE There is no power or authoritie graunted by our sauiour Christ to preach the word of God or to minister anie sacrament but the same is common to euerie one of the Pastoures of the Church and not onelie lawfull but also necessarie for them to exercise in their seuerall charges Wherefore that ministering of some sacraments is permitted to them and of other denied them it is beside the word of god Againe the word of god that giueth them general power whose sinnes soeuer whatsoeuer you shal bind or loose is directlie against al exempted cases which sauor of nothing but of Antichristian tyrannie As for the cannons of Counceles and decrees of Bishoppes whether you send the simple to learne the limites of their charge can not restraine that Christ hath enlarged and therefore if your meaning were as your wordes professe to defend the holie order and challenge for it such right as the scripture and Christes owne worde geueth you would enueigh against the pride and ambition of the Pope other prelates that exempt anie cases from the Priests power and authoritie which the holie scripture and the expresse wordsof our sauiour Christ doth in such ample manner graunt vnto them ALLEN Therefore vpon our large discourses for this last point I now deduct the particulars to this summe which maie stand for a certaine marke as well for the good to discerne the trueth as for the aduersaries to shoote at whiles they liue Alpower and euery iurisdiction or right of Christs Church remaineth as amplie and in as full force and strength at this daie and shall till the worlds end so continue as they were by Christ graunted first in the persons of the Apostles or other instituted But the power of remission of sinnes was giuen properlie and in expresse termes to the Apostles Ergo the same remaineth still in Gods Church Whereupon it is so cleare that the Priestes at this day haue as ful power to forgiue sins as the Apostles had And this argument of the continuance of all offices and righte of the Church is the moste plainest and readiest waie not onelie to helpe our cause now taken in hand but vtterlie to improoue all false doctrines and detestable practises of heretikes For they must here be examined diligentlie what common wealth that is what Church that is in which Christ doth prescrue the gouernment giuen to the Apostles where it is that the power not onely os making but also of practizing al sacraments hath continued still what companie of Christian people that is wherein the Apostles Doctors preachers ministers through the perpetuall assistance of Gods spirit be continued for the building vp of Christes bodie which is the number of faithful people What Church that is which bringeth forth from time to time sonnes to occupy the romes of their fathers before them It is not good reader the pelting packe of Protestants It is not I saie and they knowe it is not their petie congregations that hath till this daie continued the succession of Blshoppes by whome the world as Saint Augustine saith is ruled as by the Apostles and first Fathers of Religion Surely our mother the Church hath hene long baren if for her Fathers the Apostles who died so long since she neuer brought forth children til now to occupie their roomes and
Christes owne person Which prouing and iudging of mans selfe to be meant by the diligent dif cussing of our consciences sinnes and misdeedes by contrition and confession of them to our ghostlie Father the practise of the Church doth most plainlie prooue which neuer suffered any greeuous sinner to communicat before he had called him selfe to a reckning of his sinnes before the minister of God and so iudged him selfe that he receiue not to his damnation that which to euery worthy person is his life and saluation Whereof S. Augustine or the authour of the booke de Ecclesiasticis dogmatibus set forth with his name giueth vs good notice for his time Quem mortalia crimina post Baptismum commissa premunt hortor priùs publica poenitentia satisfacere ita sacerdotis iudicio reconciliatum communioni sociari si vult non ad iudicium condemnationem sui Eucharistiam percipere sed secreta satisfactione solui mortalia crimina non negamus I exhorte euerie man saith this holie doctour that is burdened after his baptisme with mortall sinne to satisfie for the same by publique penance and to be reconciled by the priests iudgement to be restored to the communion of saints if he meane to receiue the holy Sacrament not to his iudgement and condemnation And I denie not in this case but deadly sinnes may be remitted by secret satisfaction Thus he By whose wordes you see in what a damnahle state men now of daies stand seeing that whosoeuer receiueth the sacrament of Christes bodie and blood before he be reconciled by a priestes sentence and assoiled of his sinnes he doth receiue it to his euerlasting damnation Vnto whose iudgement I ioyne Saint Cyprian in this same matter complainig verie earnestly vpon certaine Conuersies in his daies that would aduenture vpon Christes bodie and blood ante exomologesim factam criminis ante purgatam conscientiam sacrificio manu sacerdotis Before their sinnes be confessed and their consciences purged by sacrifice and the Priests hand Al these thinges might be at large declared and confirmed farther by the iudgement of mostauncient Fathers but because I haue bene verie long and enough alreadie maie seeme to be said for such as by reason will be satisfied a great deale more then anie Protestant will answere vnto and also the scriptures them selues giuing the Priest so plaine power of binding and retaining as wel as of remitting and loosing will do more with these that haue charged themselues with the beleefe of nothing that is not in expresse writing of Gods word then the vniforme consent of all ages and the moste notable persons in the same In respect of their humor therefore I will not saie much more for this point then I haue said onely my meaning now is for the Catholikes comfort to repeat a few such euident sentences out of moste authentique authors by whom we take a 〈◊〉 not onely of their meaninges which is much for the matter but especiallie of the Churches practise in all ages and moste countries christened since the Apostles time which I account the moste surest waie to touch trie truth by that by the example of al our forefathers euery man may willingly learne to submit him selfe to the sentence of such as God hath made the iudges of his soule and sinnes FVLKE Yf Saint Poul had meant Popish shrift he could and would haue said Submit your selues to the examination iudgement of the Priest and not as he hath said Let a man trie him selfe Iudge your selues brèthren Yf auricular confession be necessarie vnder paine of damnation for euerie one that receiueth the sacrament of Christes bodie and bloode immediately before it many thousandes of your priests which saie masse euerie daie without shriuing themselues are in a damnable case I or there passeth no day of mans life without some deadelie sinne if not in deede not word yet at the least in thought but that you popish hypocrites by your distinction of veniall sinnes flatter your selues to be cleare when you are moste foull and filthie but the perpetuall practize of the Church you saie prooueth the necessitie of auricular confession whereof you take witnes the author of the booke de Ecclesiasticis dogmatibus for his time which you doe honestly not to father vpon Saint Augustine being a man of much later time lesse learning and more corruption of doctrine but you do fraudulentlie cut of his saying in the waste because that which followeth declareth plainlie that either he meaneth not of mortall sinnes as the Popish Church now doth holde or else his opinion for secret satisfaction is farre differing from that you would haue men weene that he meaneth namely such as you vse to inioine in your confession fiue Ladies Psalters fiue fridaies fast fiue pence groates or shillings to so many poore men in remembrance of the 5. wounds and such like stuffe but these authors wordes require another manner of satisfaction Sed secreta satisfactione solui mortalia crimina non negamus sed mutato prius secularihabitu confesso religionis studio per vitae correctionem iugi immò perpetuo luctu miserante Deo it a duntaxat vt contraria pro his quae poenitet 〈◊〉 eucharistiam omnibus dominic is diebus supplex submissus vsque ad mortem percipiat Poenitentia vera est penitenda non admittere admissa deflere Satisfactio paenitentiae est causas peccatorum excidere nec eorum suggestionibus aditum indulgere But also that by secret satisfaction mortall crimes may be loosed we doe not denie but so that the secular habite be first changed and the studie of religion confessed by amendment of life and by continuall yea perpetuall sorow God being mercifull so onelie that he doe the contrarie things to those for which he doth penance and humblie and lowlie receiue the Euchariste euerie sondaie to his dying day It is true repentance not to committe things to be repented and to bewaile such as are committed The satisfaction of repentance is to cut of the causes of sinnes and to yeald no entrie vnto their suggestions Wherefore it is plaine that in this writers time there was no auricular confession but an open confession and publike penance for open and hainous offences and that none was admitted to secret satisfaction except he changed his habite became a Monke performed other conditions by him required by which it is manifest that the iudgement of this writer though corrupt yet is contrarie to the practize of the popish Church at this daie But Saint Cyprian is a better witnes I trow for the necessitie of auricular cōfession of secret sins sauing that he speaketh of them that had openlie fallen to Idolatrie and without open confession of their fault and publike satisfaction of the Church by some vndiscreete pastours were admitted to the Lordes table describing them he saith Mortiferos Idolorum cibos adhuc pene ructantes exhalantibus etiamnum
courage you shall cast him into the waues together with your selues Vnderstād what Christ saith of the Iewes Vpon the chaire of Moses the Scribes and Pharisies did sit do ye all things whatsoeuer they shall saie to you Now we must not saie the priestes are set vpon the chaire of Moses but vpon the chaire of Christ for they haue receiued his doctrine wherefore Paul saith we are embassadours for Chist as though Christ did exhore by vs Doe ye not se that all men are subiect to the Princes of the worlde and that often times the worse in birthe life and wisdome are preferred before the better Neuerthelesse men consider the reuerence of the Prince that hath preferred them not the persons whatsoeuer they be so that if man appoint one ouer vs there is so great feare if God haue appointed anie man we despise him 〈◊〉 on him and vexe him with innumerable contumelies and whereas we are forbidden to iudge our breethren we whet our tongues against the priests Of what excuse are these thinges worthie when we se not a beame in our owne eye and iudge so seuerelse a mote in our neighbours eye Doest thou not know that thou prescribest to thy selfe a more heauie iudgement when thou so iudgest another This I saie not that I allowe vnworthie persons to be taken into the priestes office but hauing compassion and weeping For they are not therefore to be iudged by their subiects although they liue euillie and vitiouslie But if thou looke well to thy selfe thou shalt not affend end in anie'thing that is committed to them For if he made an Asse to speake and gaue spirituall blessinges by a southsayer and wrought in a dumbe mouth and the vncleane tongue of Balaam for the stumbling Iewes much more for you that be faithfull although the priests be naught God shall persorme all thinges by them and send his holie spirite for a pure minde doeth not therefore loose his purenes but grace worketh all things for all are yours saith he whether it be Paule or Apollo or Cephas For whatsoeuer the priest goeth about it is the gift of God alone and when he exerciseth mans wisdome his grace appeereth lesse Neither doe I saie this that we might liue more slouthfullie but least while they that are set ouer you liue slouthfullie you that are committed to them should at anie time procure euill to your selues And what speak I of the Priest Neither an Angell nor an Archangell can bring anie thing to passe in those thinges which are giuen by God But the father the sonne and the holie ghost doeth all things The priest giueth his tongue and his handes for it is not iust that for malice of an other man they that come to our saluation should be offended All which thinges considered let vs both seare God and greatlie reuerence his priestes that honour being giuen both to our workes and to them we maie receiue great reward of God by the grace and goodnes of our Lorde Iesus Christ to whome with the father and the holie ghost be glorie for euer and euer Amen These wordes of Chrisostome declare that the ministration of the worde and of the sacraments in which the Priest lendeth his tongue and his handes are not defiled by the euill life of the Priest so he sit in the chaire of Christ preach the doctrine receiued by him confirming the same by the sacrament of his institution But of the popish sacrament of penance or auricular confession they speake nothing at all Contrariwise they shewe by what meanes the Priestes doe execute the authoritie graunted them in remission of sinnes namelie in the whole office of their ministerie consisting principallie in preaching and ministring the sacraments not in giuing priuate absolution onelie or principallie ALLEN But to leaue him and fall to other of great antiquitie and learning whose iudgements also will prooue not onelie for the trueth of his doctrine but also which is much more for the vniformitie of this open Ceremonie which the Church of olde vsed and therefore in the like trueth of thinges yet keepeth Theodoritus therefore a Greeke author also doth plainelie insinuate not onelie the whole sacrameut but euen this Ceremonie of laying on handes in the acte of absolution Sunt medicabilia saith he etiam quae post baptismum fiunt vulnera medicabilia autem non 〈◊〉 olim per solam fidem data remissione sed per multas lachrymas fletus iciunium orationem laborem facti peccati quantitate moderatum Quienim non sic affecti sunt eos nec admittere quidem didicimus nee diuina sunt manu impertienda Nolite inquit dare sanctum canibus nec margaritas porcis The woundes which are made euen after Baptisme be to be healed marie they cannot be remedied as before in Baptisme by remission obteyned by onelie faith but they must nowe be cured by teares and weeping by fasting and praying and by penance measured after the quantitie and nature of the fault For whosoeuer be not so qualified we haue not learned to receiue them to grace neither be the holie giftes to be bestowed vpon them by our hand Giue not saieth he holie thinges to dogges nor precious stones to swine Thus doth Theodoritus allude also to our manner yet vsed in the sacrament where remission is giuen by the priestes worde and hand For which cause Saint Aogustine calleth this sacrament of reconciliation sometimes Imposition of hands as he doth other sacraments moe also where the priests by this externall Ceremonie of laying on of handes vse to giue grace FVLKE Theodoret which liued so long after confession was abrogated by Nectarius in the Greeke Church speaketh nothing for it but that repentance muste best be testified by manie teares weeping fasting and praier and such like labour moderated according to the quantitie of the sinne committed otherwise they are not to be admitted into the Church nor to be made partakers of the holie communion So that he speaketh of them that for grieuous sinnes are excommunicated whoe are not to be receiued but vpon their hartie repentance nor the diuine mysteries to be deliuered vnto them Wherefore there is no allusion in his wordes vnto the popish manner of absolution with the worde and hande For he speaketh of admission and deliuerie with the hande Which must be vnderstoode of them that were excluded and debarred from receiuing which are accounted dogges and hogges For I hope you account not all sinners for dogges and hogges before they be shriuen if they be not by the sword of excommunication cut of from the Church But Saint Augustine as you saie calleth this your sacrament Imposition of handes If you meane the place De bapt contr Donatistas lib. quinto cap 20. Because there is no eight booke whereunto your margent sendeth vs he speaketh in deede of them on whome handes are laide which maie be them that are confirmed or ordained to the ministerie of the Church as
the least they disdaine to submit themselues to the Priests whom God hath giuen power vnto to discearne the cleane from the vncleane But I would thou shouldest not beguile thy selfe by false perswasion or some respect of shame that thou hast to confesse vnto the priest who is Gods Vicare For I tell thee thou must vnder his iudgement whome God doth not disdaine to constitute his Vicegerent But this Doctour made a wholl worke of penance and the waies of recouerie of Christian mans fall after Baptisme by the Priests iudgement and sacrament of Confession Of the which bookes if any man list doubt yet let him be assured that they be both auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies whosoeuer made them And our cause is so much more holpen because not onelie Saint Austine who is plaine in these matters vpon Saint Matthwes Gospel and els where as it is declared alreadie but also other of great antiquitie confirme the same and plainly confound the pride of our daies in which men are not somuch ashamed of their sinnes as they be disdainefull to confesse their sinnes vnto a poore priest though he iustlie accupie the verie iudgement seat of God FVLKE You doe wiselie to deuorce vpon his meaning when you haue not his wordes to warrant you For so you maie blinde the eyes of the ignorant to beleeue that you haue som farther intelligence of meaning then can appeare euen by the words that you haue cited out of him For the 〈◊〉 of condemnation is not by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against them which are ashamed to confes their faults to men if they amend them before god but against them that flie the knowledge and iudgement of men and yet doe not repent before God And therefore he saith si ea confiteri aut emendare noluerirt if they will not confesse them or amende them and againe si in maio suo permanserint if they shall continue in their euill But if they will amend their faultes and not continue in sinne he dare promise them forgiuenes and life euerlasting as is declared in the last section But now you charge vs with Saint Agustines authoritie and yet you will not abide by it that it is Saint Augastines authoritie wherein you deale more sincerely then Papists are commonlie wont to doe to acknowledge that these bookes you vouch are not admitted for Saint Augustines authoritie Among so many great and large volumes as are certeinlie knowne and generally receiued to be of Saint Augustines writing where you can finde nothing but these bookes of vncerteine credit to mainteine the necessitie of auricular confession the indifferent reader may well gather how litle ground your purpose cā finde in that age of S. Austins For that you haue declared alreadie out of S. Austine vpon S. Matthewes Gospel ells where how plaine it is for these matters let the reader iudge by that I haue answered in those seuerall places But as touching the bookes de visitatione 〈◊〉 being one of the two treatises that you cite as it is certaine that it was not of S. Austines writing so hath it no similitude with the doctrine of his time or with the stile of anie learned or auncient father The Censure of Erasmus vpon these bookes is this Sermo locutulei nec docti nec diserti Quid habuerunt vel frontis vel mentis qui talia scripta nobis obtruserunt nomine Augustini c. These bookes are the speach of a pratler neither learned nor eloquent What shame or wit had they which haue thrust vpon vs such writings vnder the name of S. Augustine Yet you dare assure vs that they be auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies But the reasons of your assurance you spare to shewe giuing vs nothing but your bare word which is sufficient among vnlearned and sottish Papists whose ignorance you knewe would accept whatsoeuer you brought and therefore were carles what all the learned of the contrarie parte might iudge of your impudent and shameles assertions Concerning the other whole worke of penance which you affirme that this doctour made although it were graunted that Saint Augustine was author of that worke of repentance as it shall be easilie graunted that if not Saint Augustine yet some other auncient and learned father was the writer of them neuertheles there is nothing in them by which you are able to prooue the matter in controuersie namelie the necessitie of confession of all mortall sinnes to a Priest And therefore albeit you set a good face vpon the matter you haue neuer a sentence to set downe out of those bookes that is able to giue but onely a glosse or colour to your Popish confession For if you had you woulde not haue beene silent in setting forth the sentence of another beside Saint Augustine as you saie and as I thinke of great antiquitie who against them that be impenitent and neither acknowledge their sinnes vnfainedlie before God nor studie to amend and reforme their wicked life writeth vehementlie shewing three kindes of repentance one before baptisme in them that are of yeares another after baptisme which is dailie sorowing for our infirmities in saying the Lordes prayer the third of heinous and notorious sinnes offensiue to the Church of them that are excommunicated and are not to be receiued without open confession and signes of humilitie But the necessitie of confessing all thinges to a poore priest iustlie occupying the verie iudgement seate of God there is no word in either of those two bookes De medicina poenitentiae de vtilitate poenitentiae ALLEN And Saint Ambrose these mens auncient somewhat did knowe this practise so well and allow it that he did sit in his owne person on confession as Paulinus doth recorde whose behauiour in that diuine office that all Priestes maie perceiue and all the people note I will report Quotie scunque illi aliquis ob percipiendam poenitentiam lapsus suos confessus esset it a flebat vt ilium flere compellerat Causas autem criminum quas illi confitebaniur nulli nisi Domino soli apud quens intercedebat loquebatur bonum relinquens exemplum posteris sacerdotibus vt intercessores apud Deum sin magis quà m accusatores apud homines That is to saie So often as anie man came vnto him to confesse his faultes and receiue penance he so wept that he made the Penitent to weepe also But the faults themselues which they confessed he vttered to no man but to God alone to whome for their sinnes he made sute leauing a blessed example to all Priestes of the posteritie to account themselues rather as intercessours to God for sinnes then accusers of men before the worlde for their sinne This saieth Paulinus of Saint Ambrose whereby at once we see the iudgement of them both for our matter FVLKE The iudgement of Saint Ambrose concerning the necessitie of popish thrift or auricular confession we haue
heard before out of his owne writinges Neither doth Paulinus testifie anie other thing of him nor any other thing then might be said of Luther and Caluin whoe were no friendes of Papisticall confession For if anie man did confesse vnto them his offences that he might shew himselfe truelie penitent and receiue comfort and counsell for his amendment no doubt but those holie men were greatlie grieued at his fall which mooued the offendour to greater sorow for his sinne and yet those faultes as were discouered to them being such as might with duetie to God and the state be concealed they would neuer vtter to aniebodie What would this make to prooue that they saie on confessions like popish Priestes and required all men vnder paine of damnation to confesse vnto them their secret deadlie sinnes as pop sh Priests doe But popish prelates disdaine to doe that which they faine Saint Ambrose to haue done Manie of them being such for their knoweledge as you might rather seeke water out of a pumise stone then the doctrine of comfort out of their mouthes and for their liues and conuersations such as deserue if there were anie hope of amendment in them to stand in the Church among open penitents rather than to sit in the chaires of gouernment and iudgement ouer other men Wherefore by this citation we neither see the iudgement of Paulinus nor of saint Ambrose for your matter of the necessitie of auricular confession For that secret confession maie be made in some case we denie not but that it is necessarie to be made of all deadlie sinnes that man can remember you haue not yet prooued ALLEN But to go forward Saint Cyprians meaning is so plaine for confession of sinnnes that he prescribeth the verie thoughtes of man that be sinnefull and damnable to be vttered vnto the Priestes praising them that vpon onelie intent and purpose of committing idolatrie hoc ipsum apud sacerdotes Dei dolenter simpliciter confitebantur did simplie and sorowfullie make confession thereof to the Priests of God And now that we are for the practise and proofe hereof at S. Cyprian which is high in Gods Church we neede not staie here though we be farre enough paste our aduersaries account in such cases that laie it downe at I ateran Councell a whole thousand yeares shorte of those daies I will not much speak of Tertullian whome Saint Cyprian calleth Master his wholl booke writen of penance doth make altogether for this sacrament and for confession to be made to Gods Priestes which he calleth exomologesin prosternendi atque humiliandi hominis disciplinam and amongst other things pertaining to the act of confession and penance which then was much more publike and seuere then it is now he reckeneth this to be one Presbiteris aduolui to be humblie laid at the Priests fecte where he also resembleth a man that is lothe to confesse his inwarde faultes to him that hauing a filthie botch in the secret partes of his bodie had rather let it 〈◊〉 vp the member then for foolish shamefastnes vtter the griefe to his surgeane FVLKE You slaunder Saint Cyprian greatlie to make him be so plaine of your meaning that he perscribeth the verie thoughts of man that be sinneful and damnable to be vttered vnto the priests although he praise them that vpon onelie intent and purpose of committing Idolattie did sorowfullie and simplie confesse the same before the priests of God His wordes are these Denique quando fide maiore timore meliore sunt qui quamuis nullo sacrificij aut libelli facinore constricti quoniam tamen de hoc vel cogitauerūt hoc ipsum apud sacerdotes dei dolenter simpliciter 〈◊〉 exomologesin conscientiae faciunt animi sui pondus exponunt salutarem medelam paruis licet modicis vulneribus exquirunt scientes scriptum esse Deus non deridetur Finallie seeing they are both of greater faith and better feare which although they be guiltie of no wicked fact of sacrifice or libell yet because they haue so much as thought of such a matter they sorowfullie and simplie confesse the same before the Priests of God they make confession of their conscience they declare the burthen of their minde they seeke for wholsome medicine although for small and litle woundes knowing that it is writen God is not mocked What prescription is in these wordes of anie necessitie of confession of all the sinnefull thoughts of men his meaning is that they shewe them selues more faithfull and to feare God better which voluntarilie when there is no necessitie offer themselues to open repentance For their onelie purpose of sacrificing to the better quieting of their conscience then they which being polluted with libells as they called them by which they professed to paie monie that they might not be compelied to sacrifice to Idolls yet would not acknoweledge that they were in anie faulte which was necessarie for them to doe before they could be admitted into the congregation And therefore you haue neither practize nor proofe of the necessitie of auricular confession in Cyprians time which was 1000. yeares before the Lateran Councell which decreed the necessitie thereof That you will not speake much of Tertullian it is because you haue litle yea nothing at all in him to vpholde your purpose His booke de Poenitentia is well knowen to be written of open penance for such as were to be baptized or els had openlie fallen with offence of the Church but as for your popish sacrament of penance or confession before the priests otherwise then before the whole Church you haue nothing in that booke and therefore among other thinges pertaning to that seuere discipline of publike repentance where he reckeneth Presbyteris aduolui to be one he addeth immediatelie arie dei adgeniculari omnibus fratribus legationes deprecationis sue 〈◊〉 And to kneele before the altars of God to require all the brethren to praie for them And immediately it followeth haec omnia exomologesis vt poenitentiam commender All these things confession requireth to set forth repentance And as touching him that refuseth this discipline for shamefastenes his wordes are these Plerosque tamen hoc opus vt publicationem sui aut suffugere aut de die in diem differre praesumo pudoris magis memores quà m salutis velut illi qui in partibus verecundioribus corporis contracta vexatione conscteniam medentium vitant ita cum rubescentia sua pereunt Yet I suppose that many doe either eschew or defer from day to daie this worke as a defamation of themselues being more mindeful of shamefastnes then of their health as those men which hauing gotten a vexation in the secret partes of their bodie do auoide to haue it knowne to them that should heale it so perish with their shamefastnes This saying doeth not prooue the necessitie of confession of all our sinnes so often as we fall but the necessitie of open
communicat both functions at once and gaue the Magistrates of the Church not onlie by preaching to threaten or exhort men to vertue or promise them release of their sinnes by only faith as men haue now plained the waie to heauen but also by force of their regiment to giue great penance as we haue prooued greatpardon againe as to their wisdomes and for the Churches edifying may seeme most conuenient Of this great power of Christ communicated to his Apostles we haue practize as well for punishing sinners as pardoning them For vpon this soueraigne iurisdiction it rose that the Apostles mightelie ministred iustice vpon offendours as well by afflicting their bodies with enioyned long fasies and large almoses as by excommunicaton other meanes Which thing whsoeuer well weigheth in the manifolde examples of Gods worde they shall not wonder that the holie Bishops of Christs Church may giue a pardon of penance enioyned For by this authoritie did S. Peter who first receiued the keies of iurisdictiō power ouer the Church kil both Ananias and Saphira his wife which is as great a bodilie punishment for sinne as may be By this authoritie did he excommunicate Simon the Sorcerer by this power did S. Paull offer to reuenge disobedience by this did he threaten tocome to the faithfull with a rodde of discipline By this he prescribed to Timothie whom he consecrated Bishop how he should heare accusations and behaue himselfe in rebuking sinne correction of diuerse states By this power did he mightely deliuer vp some to Sathan and bodelie vexation By this power did he strike blinde Elimas the witch and released him at his pleasure againe FVLKE That the ministers of the Church haue authoritie not onelie to preach the worde of life moste comfortablie to al penitent sinners and moste terribly to all reproba tes and impenitent persons but also to exercise discipline of correction vpon offendours and to release the same vpon hope and apparance of their amendment it is at all times and in all places by vs willinglie confessed and acknowledged Wherefore this discourse is altogether needelesse but that you muste interlace some trueth not denied among so manie vnpropable and vnreasonable propositions that of no wise men will euer be graunted The waie to heauen is no other wise plained by vs in promising men release of their sinnes by faith onelie then it was by Saint Paul Rom. 4. and before him by Dauid psal 32. That the Apostles ministred iustice vpon offenders as well by afflicting their bodies with enioyned long fastes large almes as by excommunication and other meanes when you prooue it out of the scriptures we will yeelde vnto you We finde they did excommunicate and that they exhorted men to fasting and almes but that they enioyned any prescript fastes or almes such we finde not And yet we doubt not but they esteemed fasting praying and sorowing for sinnes almes and other Godlie exercises to be fruites of true repentance in beholding of which they were mooued to receiue againe into the Church such as for their offences were iustlie cast out Neither did Saint Peter by the same keies of iurisdiction as you call them kill Ananias and his wife by which he did excommunicate Simon the sorcerer if that denuntiation of Gods iudgement maie be called an excommunication Neither did Peter properlie kil Ananias who was stryken immediatelie of God for lying against the holie ghost neither hath anie successour of his authoritie to kill mens bodies howsoeuer you would insinuate that your Antichrist the Pope haththe power of both the swords to slaie mens bodies with the one as he murdereth their soules with his pestilent heresies That the Apostles deliuered some to Satan to be vexed in their bodies it prooueth no ordinarie iurisdiction of punishing mens bodies for that it was onelie a miraculous power they had which goeth not by succession vnto their posteritie like as the example of Saint Paul striking Elimas with blindnes can not be drawne to discipline which is practized onelie vpon the members of the Church whereof that Sorcerer was neuer anie parte neither did Saint Paull release him at his pleasure but at the time appointed by God ALLEN By this power haue holie Bishops excommunicated mightie Emperours suspended manie from the sacraments disgraded diuers spirituall men from their functions interdicted wholl Realmes and to be short by this power hath the Church of God prescribed a due punishment for euerie deadlie sinne iustlie respecting the greeuousnes thereof and continuance therein As we maie see in the penitentiall booke of I heodotus and Bede the cannons whereof be translated into the booke of decrees which is the 15. intituled De poenitent And namelie in the most auncient Councell of Ancyre which was holden well neare 1300. yeares since in the most pure time of Christian religion when I trow our aduersaries dare not saie that the faith was corrupted There the Priests and deacons that relented in persecution were suspended from the executing of their seuerall functions Such as supt in the temples of Idols and sacrificed to false Gods were charged beside absteining from the sa craments with 3. yeares penance those that committed brutish sinnes vnnatural should do 25. years penance for adultery 7 yeares penance for women that destroied their birth 10. years for murtherers 7. if it be not voluntarie if it be wilfull til the endof mans life for superstitious southsaiers or dreame readers or sorcerers and witches fiue yeares Finallie for rape 10. yeares were prescribed The like were made for diuers crimes in the councell of Nice But it is inough that we know though the eternall paines deserued by dcadlie sinnes be forgiuen with the sinnes them-selues and yet there remaineth for the satisfying of Gods iustice some temporall scourge to preuent which the Church enioyneth paine for faults remitted that both Gods mercie be followed in the remission of their sinnes and his iustice partlie answered in the punishment of the same the which debt of deserued paine being not here fulfilied or released it must in another world be answered FVLKE By power receaued from Christ holie Bishops haue practized christian discipline in excommunicating euen Emperours and great estates separating from the sacraments and displasing of ecclesiasticall persons from their functions But I neuer read that anie holie Bishop did interdict wholl realmes but onelie Antichrist of Rome Victor of olde time did take vpon him to excommunicate all the Churches of the East for not celebrating of the feast of Easter as he did but he was counter maunded and reprooued by his fellow Bishops not onelie of the East but euen of the West which agreed not with him in that ceremonie as by Ireneus Bishop of Lions in Fraunce and other That the Church of great antiquity prescribed a certaine time of punish ment for euery kinde of heinous sinne it was partly to reforme the facility of
proofe or authoritie you doe so confidentlie affirme ALLEN And yet I talke not now of taking or deliuering anle man out of Purgatory so much sooner as so many daies release doth import when he is in it alreadie but I meane as I often saie for the simples sake of him that is yet aliue and in the Churches iurisdiction and therefore may haue by the keies of the Church a pardon of his dets either all or part to preuent the paines of Purgatorie or discharge the debt thereof before that terrible daie come when it shal be actuallie required And in this sense vndoubtedly are the great number of yeares daies to be taken which be exceeding necessarie to procure mercie in these euil times wherein we may behold the pitifulwaste of Christian workes euerie where and litle penance to be done no not of the better sort of Christan people As for the other disobedient children that euerie way laugh their mother to scorne whether she vse sextritie of discipline or lenitie in remission they haue no part neither of the Churches blessing nor of the holy workes of Saintes nor of Gods owne peace and pardon Our Lord giue them the grace of repentance that they may haue a tast either of the Churcher discipline or of her mercy and lensty FVLKE You talke and meane that men should make haste while they are aliue to take their pardons whereof perhapes you are a proctor or pettie marchant vnder the Pope not regarding so much what the Popes iurisdiction is ouer poore soules in Purgatorie as how to get monie out of liuing mens purses for pardons and dispensations to mantaine you in your traiterous popery Your complaint of litle penance done is vaine hypocritical seeing you your selfe by mantaining of pardons are occasion that none at all need to be done of them that haue mony to paie for them God open the eies of the simple if it be his will to see your treacherie and either giue you true repentance orels that which your treasons heresies hypocrisie haue long agoe deserued It is prooued as wel by sundry examples of the old law as by Christs one often fact his Apostles that inioyned or deserued punishment may be released by the gouernours of the Church in their pardons THE 9. CHAP. ALLEN Some may here maruel perchance that such power should be giuen to mortall men as to remit such great portion of penance as by iustice ought to be enioyned or such a number of yeares as are appointed for satisfaction correction of former misdeeds thereby to remooue from the partie the heauy hand of god prepared for iudgement who would not wonder much hereat if they considered that the debt of hell paines and eternity of punishment which incomparablie exceedeth manie thousand yeares might by the Priestes office and alwaies is in the due execution of the sacrament of penance fully remooued from the partie penitent And where mercy putteth away deserued damnation there may much lesse force of grace turne awaie the punishment of Purgatorie being not transitorie and equivalent onelie to the penance of a number of yeares prescribed In which case if the Church of God should haue no preheminence now after the incarnation of Christ since which time the waiet of mercie towardes mankinde must needs be much enlarged our state gouernment should be much inferiour to the regiment and to the priesthood of the old law which trulie did in al things but as a shadow and figure resemble the Maiesty of our Churches prcheminence especiallie there where mercy grace were to be shewed which came by Christ Iesus Behold then some sleppe of this most excellent power giuen to our chiefe Priestes in the persons of Moses and Aaron whoe are noted in the booke of Exodus and Numbers meruelouslie to haue procured Gods mercie and sometimes by force of sacrifice praier and singular zeale to hauereleased some great portion of the paines and punishment which God himselfe by his owne mouth and determination had laied vpon the people With what meruelous confidence of his office and pitie of the afflicted sort did one of them crie out vnto god to holde his hand and pardon the people after they had deserued se great punishment for worspiping the golden Idoll of the Calfe in the wildernes Lord saith Moses this people hath committed an horrible sinne and they haue erected golden Gods Forgiue them this sinne Lord or ells if thou wilt not dash me out of thy booke to which thou hast written This gouernour and this priest praied not after a common sort for pardon of the peoples punishment but he claimeth it wish confidence and in a manner requireth it as by his iurisdiction and office Such was the force of praier and priesthood before Christs spirituall souer aignitie was honoured in the worlde otherwise then in a figure And yet god in a manner was at that point with them then that he would pardon punish at their pleasures For when the sinne was exceeding greeuous he maketh as it were meanes to Moses that he should not stay him nor his anger from punishing of the offendors Let me alone Moses saith our Lord suffer me to be angrie FVLKE Men may iustly maruell that you professing methode doe set the Cart before the horse and frame of your building the roofe before the foundation but if they consider that this way you take is of more force to confounde a simple witte then to teach a matter plainlie they maie cease to maruell and acknowledge that the compasse of your cause whereof you speake in the beginning will abide none other order But to the matter and argument of this Chapter it hath bin answered before that in the discipline of the Church the gouernours thereof haue power vpon good consideration and triall of the offenders repentance and not otherwise at their pleasure to release enioyned time of repentance which was enioyned for none other end so much as to bring the party to repentanes and thereof to assure or satisfie the Church But as the discipline of the Church militant serueth for the onelie time of her warfare in this life so the gouernors of the Church haue no authoritie either to inioyne or to release out of the compas of this life And therefore this power of binding loosing vpon earth cannot be extended to anie purgatorie paines or rather pickpurse after this life and consequentlie it can be no shadowe to couer the filthie and blasohemous nundination and chaffering of the Popes pardons for thousands and hundreth thousands of yeares What authority the ministers of the Church haue in remitting sinnes hath beene handled sufficientlie before They are Gods messengers to declare his forgiuenes to them that trulie repent and so they are to release the bande of discipline in open offenders where the fruites of repentance doe appeare Your argument that the priesthood in the new law is of more power to purchase mercie then in the
conuenient that the release of deserued penance should be had of euerie inferior priest lest the discipline of the church should so become contemptible the release thereof being made common to so manie And it is the high prouidence of God that the waie to remit 〈◊〉 allie sinnes which is of necessarie to our saluation should be neere vs in euerie place and by the common ministers of the Church at al times to be obtained where the remission of the Churches discipline being more necessarie to be fulfilled and neuer or verie seldome necessarie to be whollie released should not be so easely obtained but hardlie had at the handes of a sex and them of excellent authoritie and reuerence in Gods Church FVLKE Throughout this booke he therto you haue ioyned the Bishops with the Pope in graunting of indulgencies as though their power in pardoning had beene somewhat proportionable vnto his But now you beginne to shake them of and it will appeere plainelie that hetherto you haue concealed how litle a peece of pardoning power is allotted to bishops and infinit authoritie left with the Pope wherem either the popish councell of Laterane too much abased the bishoppes or else the Pope too much hath aduanced his practize But in the argument of the Chapter you doe well and honestlie confesse that the scripture prescribeth nothing of the lawful ministers of these remissions by the same reasō you should confesse that the scripture prescribeth nothing of such kinde of remissions For God neuer graunteth anie power or authoritie but he appointeth also who shall be the laufull exercisers and executors of the same And if simple priests as you cal them haue authoritie to inioyne penance which is to binde by the plaine wordes of Christ they haue authoritie also to remit which is to loose But the iurisdiction and externall regimens of the Church you saie agreeth not to them which haue no further iurisdiction but in the secret court of mans conscience Let that be as you saie yet it were reason that as farre as their iurisdiction extendeth they should remitte and loose in the secret Court of mans conscience where they did binde although they gaue no publike pardons Neither can the vsage of anie auncient time be alledged against this that I saie nor the prescriptions of the auncient Canons which were made and practized of publike penance openlie inioyned in which the inferior priestes were prohibited to reconcile or remit without the knowledge of the Bishoppe But as there was no penance priuatlie inioyned by Priestes so there was no prohibition that it should not priuatlie be remitted of them by whome it was appointed The reasons that you alledge of the inconuenience of releasing of penance by euery inferior Priest are of no valewe for the discipline of the Church should be no more contemptible in releasing of tempor all penance then in releasing of eternall 〈◊〉 which power you allow to euerie hedge Priest Againe the punishment of so manie thousand yeares in purgatorie should not with such difficultie be obtained if either crueltie or couetuousnes in the Pope did not prohibit Where you saie the Church discipline is neuer or seldome to be wholy released you reprooue the Popes often Iubilies and dailie plenarie Pardons graunted of course to anie man that will buy them ALLEN And not onely that but also the nature of the act of pardoning doth wholie chalenge this function of the higher Magistrates of Christes common wealth For it standeth not onelie vpon the remission of debt but also vpon recompence of reparing againe the band thereof by the common treasure of the whole housholde of the faithfull which can not be by reason despensed and bestowed vpon anie man that lacked by any but such as are principall stewardes and rulers of some whole portion of the said familie as Bishoppes lawfullie succeeding the Apostles are known in this case to haue receiued the keies of Christs kingdome and the dispensing of his holy mysteries and therefore maie instly dispose the treasure of Christ and his Saintes satisfactions to the benefit of the faithfull in whose lardge cures it can no otherwise be thought but there be the merits of diuers holy and blessed men laied vp in store before God for the releefe of their brethren which maie be disposed at the Blshoppes wisdome to such namelie as be of his owne charge and regiment But of particular parishes it cannot be certaine that there should alwaies be some sufficiencie of aboundant satisfactions to remaine without decaie for the continuall bestowing vpon some of the said small circuit and that is it which the schoole diuines saie In particulari Ecolesta merita non sunt indeficientia merites of Sainctes be not vnspendable in particular Churches But the communion of Saintes being the generall benefit of the wholl common wealth of Christes Church continueth for euer by the aboundance of manie holy workes which may satisfie for other mens sinnes according to the disposition of such as be the gouernours and guiders of our soules that the ouerplus and aboundance of one sort maie euer releeue the lackes of an other sort as S. Paull speaketh in the like matter FVLKE The next argument to prooue that priestes cannot pardon is because the disposition of the treasure out of which the paiment goeth by reason pertaineth to none but to such as are principall stewardes and rulers of some wholl portion of the familie as bishoppes c. But are not priestes also stewards and rulers of their owne parishes which are also wholl portions of the familie and consist of many partes Whie maie they not then be dispensers of that vnknowne treasure you speake of You answer that in the large cures of bishoppes it cannot otherwise be thought but there be the merites of diuerse holy and blessed men laid vp in store to be bestowed by the Bishop to such as be of his own regiment but merites of Saints be not vnspendable in particular Churches Marke this reason well for hereof it followeth that the super abundance of Christes satisfaction which you make to be the ground of this imaginarie treasure is not of force of it selfe without the helpe of the merites of saints Secondlie the communion of Saints whereupon you would ground another parte of this treasure of satisfaction being limited by diocesses and not by parishes leeseth the nature of a communion which extendeth it selfe vnto al vnto whome it is common For if the merit of Christ were sufficient to ground a pardon vpon the priest in his parish beeing a steward of Christes satisfaction might graunt a pardon but because he lacketh perhapes the merites of Saints he maie not presume so much vppon Christes satisfaction alone Againe if the merites of Saints were founded vpon the communion of saints why should not the merits of the saints of the wholl diocesse yea of the whole world be auaileable and appliable to euerie man of euerie parish by the particular gouerner and guider of the
building But as it was last inuented for none of the auncient Church for a thousand yeares and more euer heard of it so you haue done well to thrust it vnto the last end of your booke And first you beginne with an obiection vpon your owne ground that for answering of Gods iustice there remaineth a temporall paine after sinne remitted But because the obiection is such as you are neuer able to answer so well your principles of popery hang one vpon another you couer the hardest point and will not let it appeare namelie that Gods iustice requireth punishment of the partie him selfe that offended for satisfying his iustice which was not satisfied by the death and obedience of Christ which if it be true then can there be no remission by any other meanes sauing the iustice of God but by the parties owne suffering Yet let vs see how you auoid the obiection io fauourablie set downe for your seife to answer you saie that Gods iustice is otherwise satisfied by the aboundant satisfactiō made by Christ vpon the crosse and by the merites of his saints If this be true then is the other principle false that Gods iustice requireth temporall punishment of the partie for the recompence of Christs satisfaction and saints merites is not the parties owne punishment wherefore as in the obiection you runne from Christes most perfect satisfaction so in the answere you runne from the obiection which is no answer or satisfaction The scripture is plaine that the blood of Christ purgeth vs from all sinne and Christ by one oblation hath made perfect for euer those that are sanctified he hath once entred into the holie place by his owne blood and found eternall redemption The satisfaction for sinne the purging of vnrightcousnes the perfecting of the saints and euerlasting redemption can abide no reseruation of punishment either temporall or eternall in which the iustice of god is throughlie answered by the obedience and suffering of Christ whose stripes hauing healed vs there remaineth no suffering of our part for satisfying of his iustice And you confesse that there is a sufficient value in the suffering of Christ for the taking awaie of all temporall punishment if it be well applied by the Pope So that Christes redemption was but a power of redeeming and not an act of redemption a power depending vpon the will of man to applie according to his pleasure as you were wount to speake and not according to Gods determination and eternal election And so you robbe Christ of the effect of his death passion by which he obteined eternal redemptiō for al gods elect to enrich the pope with a treasure infinit and vnspendable for that word youlent me before which he might bestow and dispense at his pleasure But let vs a litle enter into your storehouse see what tresure there is and how you came by it First you tell vs of the infinite abilitie and the inestimable valew of euerie drop of Christes bloode c. to satisfie all debt due for all sinne and al paine for the same and yet you alow to the act and effect of his bloodie sacrifice the value but of halfe a drop denying the same to haue satisfied Gods iustice for temporall paine all the rest you claime for the treasure of the Popish Church which dreame was neuer hard of before the Iubilie graunted by Boneface the 8. in the glosse wherof it was first deuised where it is saied that pardons are founded vpon the merits of Christ and taken out of it Passio namque Christi excessiua fuit vnde excessus vocatur in Luca vbi dicitur quod in transfiguratione Christi apparuerunt Moses Elias cùm eo dicebans excessum quem completurus erat in Ierusalem vnica enim guita sanguinis tam preciost suffecisset pro redemptione totiu mundi Nam propter coniunctionem humanitatis cùm diuinitate 〈◊〉 passio Christi perpessa pro redemptione nostra habebat precium infinitum Noluit autem Christus quod excessus isie frustra fuisset quod de nihilo nobis 〈◊〉 sed volait quod esset Thesaurus Ecclesiae per suum vicarium Ro pontificem pro fidelibus loco tempore dispensandus dispensatur autem cum eis indulgentiae conceduntur For the passion of Christ was excessiue whereof also in Saint Luke it is called an excesse where it is said that in the transfiguration of Christ appeered Moses and Elias with him and they spake of the excesse which he should fullfil at Ierusalem For one drop of so precious blood might haue sufficed for the redemption of the wholl worlde For because of the coniunction of the humanity with the diuinitie neuer so small a suffering of Christ suffered for our redemption had an infinit price But Christ would not that this excesse should be in vaine and that it should serve vs for nothing but he would that it should be the treasure of the Church to be bestowed by his vicar the Bishop of Rome in time and place for the faithfull and it is bestowed when pardons are graunted to thē Marke vpon what text this treasure is grounded and how clarkely it is expounded Moses and Elias talked with Christ of his departure out of this life which he should finish at Ierusalem this departure being termed in the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Latine excessum this Doctor interpreteth to be an excesse or superfluitie of the passion of Christ the ouerplus whereof lest it should be in vaine and serue for nothing is made the treasure of the Church to be dispensed by the pope But who wil graunt such excesse or superfluitie of the passion of Christ as you imagine or that neuer so small a suffering of Christ had beene sufficient for the redemption of the wholl worlde which if it were graunted seeing Christ from his infancie snffered many things for vs euerie one of them might haue beene our redemption and so the sacrifice of Christs death was vnnecessarie for our redemption So that his blood shed in his circumcision and much more in his scourging crowning with thorne had bin infinitely more thē enough although he had not suffered death and shed his blood on the crosse Againe as it doth moste excellentlie set forth the iustice and mercie of God to the euerlasting comfort of the faithfull that Christ by his obedience and suffering did moste perfectlie satisfie the one and moste plentifullie purchase the other to the eternall redemption and euerlasting felicitie of all Gods elect so it is against the iustice of god that he should require that his sonne should suffer infinitlie more then was needeful to answere his iustice work a perfect redēption as this glossary dreame of the Popish Churches treasure doth imagine Neither doth the argument of the coniunction of the humanitie with the diuinitie prooue anie such matter But if that were graunted by what scripture is the infinite ouerplus made a treasure of
the head of the house But if he will saie this other man was no frier then he must shewe what he was whoe was the testator what fraude Luther and his Prior vsed to deceiue him and bring good proofe thereof or els who is bound to beleeue him But to goe forward other estate or degree or Apostleshippe he knoweth not that Luther had anie what then was not this sufficient calling for him that was a Doctor of the Popish Church to preach against the abuses and errors thereof and when his doctrine and conclusions were vndoubtedly agreeable to the holie scriptures might he not iustlie affirme that they were from heauen And that he was sent from heauen to teach the Germanes the trueth of the Gospell which of long time had beene hidden from them For that he was their first Apostle or that before his daies they neuer had any true religion or Christian doctrine he neuer said Neither did he make more account of himselfe then of Saint Augustine and all other Fathers of the Church although in the booke quoted by Frarine he preferreth that doctrine which is agreeable to the holie scriptures before the iudgement of Augustine and all men that euer were As for the familiar conference and talke with the Deuill which Frarine affirmeth that he reporieth of himselfe And that Cocleus and al his enemies doe gnaw so much vpon to prooue that he was set on by the Deuil to gainesaie the masse Is nothing but a ridiculous cauill For Luther speaketh of a spirituall conflict that he had with Sathan for saying masse so long which at length he acknowledged to be blasphemous against the death of Christ. Not of any bodelie appeerance of the Deuill or familiar talke with him as the malice of the Papists doe expound him Next Luther our Orator will examine Caluins vocation Caluine saith he was borne at Nouiodunum in Picardie What of that He was banished from his countrie for his wicked behauiour That is false For he liued in his countrie in good credit both of learning and honestie till the crueltie of the Papists caused him to seeke the libertie and profession of religion abroad which he could not haue at home That he was the veriest vnthrist naughtiest varlet of all his companions when he was in his countrie is an impudent slaunder for at Orleans he red the lawe lecture oftentimes in the place of Petrus Stella the publike reader and was so well accounted both for his learning and vertue that the degree of Doctorship in that facultie with full consent of all the teachers was offered him without anie expences as one that had verie well deserued of the vniuersitie Afterward at Paris he set forth that notable commentary of his of Seneca de Clementia He was of great familiaritie with Nicolaus Copus Rector of the vniuersitie of Paris and in good credit with the Queene of Nauarre sister vnto King Frauncis He had conference with Iacobus Faber Stapulensis in Aquitanes and after he had set forth that worthie booke of his called Psychopanuchia at Orleans against them which taught that the soules departed doe sleepe vntill the resurrection without sense of good or euill he came to the Citie of Basill This course of his life as it is written in his storie with much more to this effect doth witnes that he was euen from his youth a man indued with singuler modestie temperance and godlines whatsoeuer his aduersaries without all proofe or shewe of truth are not ashamed to inuent and brute against him When he was at Basill he did not hide his head as the slaunderer saieth but desired in deed to be priuate that he might better applie his studies and especiallie the Hebrew tongue But such was his excellencie that he could not be hid from the principall learned men of that vniuersitie and so litle was he hid that there he first set forth his Institution dedicated to King Frauncis Our declaimer saith that from Basile he passed to Strasburg and there began to shew his head and preach to the Runnagats But that is false for from Basill he went into Italie to visit the Duchesse of Ferrara from whence he returned into Fraunce where hauing set all his affaires in order he brought away his onely brother AntonieCaluine intending to settle him selfe either at Basill or at Strasburg But al other passages being stopt he was forced to trauaile thorough Sauoye and comming to Geneua onely to visite Farellus and Viretus by whose zealous earnest labours Popery being banished and the Church there reformed he was staied by the terrible obtestation of Farellus and by the Presbyterie and Magistrates chosen to be a teacher and intepreter of the Scriptures in that Church But that he put out the deputie of the citie expelled the Bishops and Popish cleargie reigned there like a conquerour by the law of ireason and force of armes as Frarine saieth it is a moste impudent lie though an hundred Lindanes had sworne that it was true For the Bishoppe with his Popish cleargie was departed out of the citie and the Religion reformed by publike authoritie receiued long time before Caluines first arriuall thether Of like trueth it is that Beza in his baudie and filthie epigrames as it pleaseth Frarine to call them farre passeth the wanton Pagan Poetes Martiall and Tibullus For in the moste licentious of these epigrames first condemned by Beza himselfe there is not one word of obscenitie although they were made in a fained argument after the immitation of those Poets And if they had bin as full of baudie tearmes and matters as Martiall himselfe Yet so long as Beza cōtinued in popery where they were freely printed selde they were catholike enough What should I speake saith he of Bernardinus Ochinus the preacher of Polygamie Verelie there is no cause why he should speake of him seeing both the man and the doctrine are detested in our Churches and by our writings confuted He nameth also Bernard Rotman and Iohn of Leyd authors of the Anabaptisticall sedition at Monster as though wee had any thing to doe with them Yes saith he they conquered the field against the Lutheranes by pretence of scripture onelie as Rotman before vanquished the Papists The storie is written who list to reade wherein may be found they vsed other craftes beside force of armes then pretence of scripture onelie to compasse their diuelish attempts And what if they had vsed the pretence of scripture onelie as the diuel did in tempting our sauiour Christ was the scripture onelie of lesse force to confute their false pretence then when it was vsed by our Sauiour Christ against the Deuill He telleth vs of Hosiander reprooued of vs for heresie of Carolostadius who thorough folly madnes became a ploughnian The names also of Peter Martyr Illiricus Musculus Farellus Viretus and Bucer a gainst whom he hath nothing to say besides I know not what Marote Malote And that these should vsurpe