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book_n	church_n	holy_a	rome_n	1,832	5	6.4271	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A04250	A remonstrance of the most gratious King Iames I. King of Great Britaine, France, and Ireland, defender of the faith, &c. For the right of kings, and the independance of their crownes. Against an oration of the most illustrious Card. of Perron, pronounced in the chamber of the third estate. Ian. 15. 1615. Translated out of his Maiesties French copie.; Declaration du serenissime Roy Jaques I. Roy de la Grand' Bretaigne France et Irlande, defenseur de la foy. English	James I, King of England, 1566-1625.; Betts, Richard, 1552-1619.	1616 (1616)	STC 14369; ESTC S107609	113,081	306

of leprosie and an heretike hath some affinitie with a leper But may not his Quoniam be as fitly applyed to any contagious inueterate vice of the minde beside heresie His warning-peice therefore is discharged to purpose whereby he notifies that hee pretendeth to handle nothing with resolution For indeed vpon so weake arguments a resolution is but ill-fauouredly and weakely grounded His bulwarks thus beaten downe let vs now viewe the strength of our owne First hee makes vs to fortifie on this manner They that are for the negatiue doe alleadge the authoritie of S. Paul Let euery soule bee subiect vnto the higher powers For whosoeuer resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God And likewise that of S. Peter Submit your selues whether it be vnto the King as vnto the superiour or vnto gouernours c. Vpon these passages and the like they inferre that obedience is due to Kings by the Lawe of God and not dispensable by any spirituall or temporall authoritie Thus he brings vs in with our first weapon But here the very cheife sinew and strength of our argument he doth wittingly balke and of purpose conceale To wit That all the Emperours of whom the said holy Apostles haue made any mention in their diuine Epistles were professed enemies to Christ Pagans Infidels fearefull and bloody Tyrants to whom notwithstanding euery soule and therefore the Bishop of Rome for one is commaunded to submit himselfe and to professe subiection Thus much Chrysostome hath expressely taught in his Hom. 23. vpon the Epistle to the Romanes The Apostle giues this commandement vnto all euen to Priests also and cloistered Monkes not onely to secular be thou an Apostle an Euangelist a Prophet c. Besides it is here worthy to be noted that howsoeuer the Apostles rule is generall and therefore bindeth all the faithfull in equal bands yet is it particularly directly and of purpose addressed to the Church of Rome by S. Paul as by one who in the spirit of an Apostle did foresee that rebellion against Princes was to rise and spring from the city of Rome Now in case the Head of that Church by warrant of any priuiledge contained in the most holy Register of Gods holy word is exempted from the binding power of this generall precept or rule did it not become his Lordship to shew by the booke that it is a booke case and to lay it forth before that honourable assembly who no doubt expected waited to heare when it might fal from his learned lips But in stead of any such authenticall and canonicall confirmation hee flyeth to a sleight shift and with a cauill is bold to affirme the foundation laid by those of our side doth no way touch the knot of the controuersie Let vs heare him speake Jt is not in controuersie whether obedience bee due to Kings by Gods Lawe so long as they are Kings or acknowledged for Kings but our point controuerted is whether by Gods Lawe it bee required that hee who hath beene once recognised and receiued for King by the bodie of Estates can at any time bee taken and reputed as no King that is to say can doe no manner of act whereby hee may loose his right and so cease to be saluted King This answer of the L. Cardinal is the rare deuise euasion and starting hole of the Iesuites In whose eares of delicate and tender touch King-killing soundeth very harsh but forsooth to vn-king a King first and then to giue him the stabbe that is a point of iust and true descant For to kill a King once vn-king'd by deposition is not killing of a King For the present I haue one of that Iesuiticall Order in prison who hath face enough to speak this language of Ashdod and to maintaine this doctrine of the Iesuites Colledges The L. Cardinal harps vpon the same string He can like subiection and obedience to the King whilest hee sitteth King but his Holinesse must haue all power and giue order withall to hoyst him out of his Royall seate I therefore now answer that in very deed the former passages of S. Paul and S. Peter should come nothing neere the question if the state of the question were such as he brings it made and forged in his owne shop But certes the state of the question is not whether a King may doe some act by reason whereof hee may fall from his right or may not any longer be acknowledged for King For all our contention is concerning the Popes power to vn-authorize Princes whereas in the question framed and fitted by the L. Card. not a word of the Pope For were it graunted and agreed on both sides that a King by election might fall from his Kingdome yet still the knot of the question would hold whether he can bee dispossessed of his Regall authority by any power in the Pope and whether the Pope hath such fulnesse of power to strip a King of those Royall robes rights and reuenues of the Crowne which were neuer giuen him by the Pope as also by what authority of holy Scripture the Pope is able to beare out himselfe in this power and to make it good But here the L. Cardinal stoutly saith in his owne defence by way of reioynder As one text hath Let euery soule be subiect vnto the higher powers in like manner an other text hath Obey your Prelates and be subiect vnto your Pastors for they watch ouer your soules as men that shall giue an accompt for your soules This reason is void of reason and makes against himselfe For may not Prelates be obeyed and honoured without Kings be deposed If Prelates preach the doctrine of the Gospell will they in the pulpit stirre vp subiects to rebell against Kings Moreouer whereas the vniuersal Church in these daies is diuided into so many discrepant parts that now Prelates neither do nor can draw all one way is it not exceeding hard keeping our obedience towards God to honour them all at once with due obedience Nay is not here offered vnto me a dart out of the L. Cardinals armorie to cast at himselfe For as God chargeth all men with obedience to Kings and yet from that commaundement of God the Lord Cardinal would not haue it inferred that Kings haue power to degrade Ecclesiasticall Prelates euen so God giueth charge to obey Prelates yet doth it not followe from hence that Prelates haue power to depose Kings These two degrees of obedience agree well together and are each of them bounded with peculiar and proper limits But for so much as in this point we haue on our side the whole auncient Church which albeit she liued and groned for many ages together vnder heathen Emperours heretikes and persecuters did neuer so much as whisper a word about rebelling and falling from their Soueraigne Lords and was neuer by any mortall creature freed from the oath of allegiance to the Emperour the Cardinal is not vnwilling to graunt that ancient

Kingdom thinks himselfe in little safetie so long as he shall of his courtesy suffer his disseised predecessor to draw his breath And say that some Princes after their fall from their Thrones haue escaped both point and edge of the Tyrants weapon yet haue they wandred like miserable fugitiues in forraine countryes or else haue beene condemned like captiues to perpetuall imprisonment at home a thousand-fold worse and more lamentable then death it selfe Dyonisius the Tyrant of Syracusa from a great King in Sicilie turn'd School-master in Corinth It was the onely calling kind of life that as he thought bearing some resemblance of rule and gouernment might recreate his mind as an image or picture of his former Soueraigntie ouer men This Dyonisius was the onely man to my knowledge that had a humour to laugh after the losse of a Kingdome and in the state of a Pedant or gouernour of children merily to ieast and to scorne his former state and condition of a King In this my Kingdome of England sundry Kings haue seen the walls as it were of their Princely fortresse dismantled razed and beaten downe By name Edward and Richard both II. and Henrie VI. all which Kings were most cruelly murdered in prison In the raigne of Edward III. by act of Parliament whosoeuer shal imagine that is the very word of the Statute or machinate the Kings death are declared guilty of rebellion and high treason The learned Iudges of the Land grounding vpon this law of Edward the third haue euer since reputed and iudged them traytors according to Law that haue dared onely to whisper or talke softly between the teeth of deposing the King For they count it a cleare case that no Crowne can be taken from a Kings head without losse of Head and Crowne together sooner or later The L. Cardinall therefore in this most weighty and serious point doth meerely dally and flowt after a sort when he tels vs The Church doth not intermeddle with releasing of subiects and knocking off their yrons of obedience but onely before the Ecclesiasticall tribunall seate and that besides this double censure of absolution to subiects and excommunication to the Prince the Church imposeth none other penaltie Vnder pretence of which two censures so far is the Church as the L. Cardinal pretendeth from consenting that any man so censured should be touched for his life that shee vtterly abhorreth all murder whatsoeuer but especially all sudden and vnprepenced murders for feare of casting away both body and soule which often in sudden murders goe both one way It hath been made manifest before that all such proscription and setting forth of Kings to port-sale hath alwaies for the traine thereof either some violent and bloody death or some other mischiefe more intolerable then death it selfe What are we the better that parricides of Kings are neither set on nor approoued by the Church in their abhominable actions when she layeth such plots and taketh such courses as necessarily doe inferre the cutting of their throates In the next place be it noted that his Lordship against all reason reckons the absoluing of subiects from the oath of allegiance in the ranke of penalties awarded and enioyned before the Ecclesiasticall tribunall seate For this penaltie is not Ecclesiasticall but Ciuill and consequently not triable in Ecclesiasticall Courts without vsurping vpon the ciuill Magistrate But I wonder with what face the Lord Cardinall can say the Church neuer consenteth to any practise against his life whome she hath once chastised with seuere censures For can his Lordship be ignorant what is written by Pope Vrbanus Can. Excommunicatorum We take them not in any wise to be man-slayers who in a certain heate of zeale towards the Catholike Church their Mother shall happen to kill an excomunicate person More if the Pope doth not approoue and like the practise of King-killing wherefore hath not his Holinesse imposed some seuere censure vpon the booke of Mariana the Iesuite by whome parricides are commended nay highly extolled when his Holines hath been pleased to take the paines to censure and call in some other of Mariana's bookes Againe wherefore did his Holines aduise himselfe to censure the decree of the Court of Parliament in Paris against Iohn Chastell Wherefore did he suffer Garnet and Oldcorne my powder-miners both by bookes and pictures vendible vnder his nose in Rome to be inrowled in the Canon of holy Martyrs And when he saw two great Kings murdered one after an other wherfore by some publike declaration did not his Holinesse testifie to all Christendome his inward sense and true apprehension of so great misfortune as all Europe had iust cause to lament on the behalfe of France Wherefore did not his Holinesse publish some Lawe or Pontificiall decree to prouide for the securitie of Kings in time to come True it is that he censured Becanus his booke But wherefore That by a captious and sleight censure he might preuent a more exact and rigorous decree of the Sorbon Schoole For the Popes checke to Becanus was onely a generall censure and touch without any particular specification of matter touching the life of Kings About some two moneths after the said book was printed againe with a dedication to the Popes Nuntio in Germany yet without any alteration saue onely of two articles containing the absolute power of the people ouer Kings In recompence and for a counterchecke whereof three or fowre articles were inserted into the said book touching the Popes power ouer Kings articlcs no lesse wicked and iniurious to Regall rights nay more iniurious then any of the other clauses whereof iust cause of exception and complaint had been giuen before If I would collect and heape vp examples of auncient Emperours as of Henrie IV. whos 's dead corps felt the rage and fury of the Pope or of Frederic 2. against whome the Pope was not ashamed to whet and kindle the Sultane or of Queen Elizabeth our Predecessour of glorious memorie whose life was diuers times assaulted by priuie murderers expressely dispatched from Rome for that holy seruice if I would gather vp other examples of the same stampe which I haue laid forth in my Apology for the oth of allegiance I could make it more cleare then day-light how farre the L. Cardinals words are discrepant from the truth where his Lordship out of most rare confidence is bold to avowe That neuer any Pope went so farre as to giue consent or counsell for the desperate murdering of Princes That which already hath beene alleadged may suffice to conuince his Lordship I meane that his Holinesse by deposing of Kings doth lead them directly to their graues and tombes The Cardinal himselfe seemeth to take some notice hereof The Church as he speaketh abhorreth sudden and vnprepensed murders aboue the rest Doth not his Lordship in this phrase of speech acknowledge that murders committed by open force are not so much disavowed or disclaimed by the Church A little

to turne subiect vnto Charlemayne Let me see but one Towne that Charlemayne recouered from the Greeke Emperours by his right and title to his Empire in the West No the Greeke Emperours had taken their farwell of the West Empire long before And therefore to nick this vpon the tallie of Pope Leo his Acts that hee tooke away the West from the Greeke Emperour it is euen as if one should say that in this age the Pope takes the Dukedome of Milan from the French Kings or the citie of Rome from the Emperours of Germany because their predecessors in former ages had beene right Lords and gouernours of them both It is one of the Popes ordinary and solemne practises to take away much after the manner of his giuing For as he giueth what he hath not in his right and power to giue or bestoweth vpon others what is alreadie their owne euen so he taketh away from Kings and Emperors the possessions which they haue not in present hold and possession After this manner he takes the West from the Greeke Emperours when they hold nothing in the West and lay no claime to any citie or towne of the West Empire And what shall we call this way of depriuation but spoyling a naked man of his garments and killing a man alreadie dead True it is the Imperiall Crowne was then set on Charlemaynes head by Leo the Pope did Leo therefore giue him the Empire No more then a Bishop that crownes a King at his Royall and solemne consecration doth giue him the Kingdome For shal the Pope himselfe take the Popedome from the Bishop of Ostia as of his gift because the crowning of the Pope is an office of long time peculiar to the Ostian Bishop It was the custome of Emperours to be crowned Kings of Italy by the hands of the Archbishop of Milan did he therefore giue the kingdome of Italy to the said Emperours And to returne vnto Charlemayne If the Pope had conueied the Empire to him by free and gratious donation the Pope doubtlesse in the solemnity of his coronation would neuer haue performed vnto his owne creature an Emperour of his owne making the duties of adoration as Ado that liued in the same age hath left it on record After the solemne praises ended saith Ado the cheife Bishop honoured him with adoration according to the custome of auncient Princes The same is likewise put downe by Auentine in the 4. booke of his Annals of Bauaria The like by the President Fauchet in his antiquities and by Mons. Petau Councellor in the Court of Parliament at Paris in his preface before the Chronicles of Eusebius Hierome and Sigebert It was therefore the people of Rome that called this Charles the Great vnto the Imperiall dignitie and cast on him the title of Empeerour So testifieth Sigebert vpon the yeere 801. All the Romanes with one generall voice and consent ring out acclamations of Imperiall praises to the Emperour they crowne him by the hands of Leo the Pope they giue him the style of Caesar and Augustus Marianus Scotus hath as much in effect Charles was then called Augustus by the Romanes And so Platina After the solemne seruice Leo declareth and proclameth Charles Emperour according to the publike decree and generall request of the people of Rome Aventine and Sigonius in his 4. booke of the Kingdome of Italie witnes the same Neuerthelesse to gratifie the L. Cardinall Suppose Pope Leo dispossessed the Greeke Emperours of the West Empire What was the cause what infamous act had they done what prophane and irreligious crime had they committed Nicephorus and Irene who raigned in the Greeke Empire in Charlemaynes time were not reputed by the Pope or taken for heretikes How then The L. Cardinall helpeth at a pinch and putteth vs in minde that Constantine and Leo predecessors to the said Emperours had beene poysoned with heresie and stained with persecution Here then behold an Orthodoxe Prince deposed For what cause for heresie forsooth not in himselfe but in some of his predecessors long before An admirable case For I am of a contrary minde that he was worthy of double honour in restoring and setting vp the truth againe which vnder his predecessors had indured oppression and suffered persecution Doubtlesse Pope Siluester was greatly ouerseene and plaied not well the Pope when he winked at Constantine the Great and cast him not downe from his Imperiall Throne for the strange infidelitie and paganisme of Diocletian of Maximian and Maxentius whome Constantine succeeded in the Empire From this example the L. of Perron passeth to Fulke Archbishop of Reims by whome Charles the Simple was threatned with Excommunication and refusing to continue any longer in the fidelity and allegiance of a subiect To what purpose is this example For who can be ignorant that all ages haue brought forth turbulent and stirring spirits men altogether forgetfull of respect and obseruance towards their Kings especially when the world finds them shallow and simple-witted like vnto this Prince But in this example where is there so much as one word of the Pope or the deposing of Kings Here the L. Cardinall chops in the example of Philip 1. King of France but mangled and strangely disguised as hereafter shall be shewed At last he leadeth vs to Gregory VII surnamed Hildebrand the scourge of Emperours the firebrand of warre the scorne of his age This Pope after he had in the spirit of pride and in the very height of all audaciousnesse thundred the sentence of excommunication and deposition against the Emperour Henry 4. after he had enterprised this act without all precedent example after hee had filled all Europe with blood this Pope I say sunke downe vnder the weight of his affaires and died as a fugitiue at Salerne ouerwhelmed with discontent and sorrowe of heart Here lying at the point of giuing vp the ghoast calling vnto him as it is in Sigebert a certaine Cardinall whome hee much fauoured He confesseth to God and Saint Peter and the whole Church that he had beene greatly defectiue in the Pastor all charge cōmitted to his care and that by the Deuills instigation he had kindled the fire of Gods wrath and hatred against mankind Then he sent his Confessor to the Emperour and to the whole Church to pray for his pardon because hee perceiued that his life was at an end Likewise Cardinal Benno that liued in the said Gregories time doth testifie That so soone as he was risen out of his Chaire to excommunicate the Emperour from his Cathedrall seate by the will of God the said Cathedrall seate new made of strong board or plancke did cracke and cleaue into many peices or parts to manifest how great and terrible schismes had beene sowed against the Church of Christ by an excommunication of so dangerous consequence pronounced by the man that had sit Iudge therein Now to bring and alleadge the example of such a

Churches vnder a Prince of contrary religion And if things without life or soule are with lesse danger left in an heretikes hands why then shall not an hereticall King with more facilitie and lesse danger keep his Crown his Royall charge his lands his customes his imposts c. For will any man except he bee out of his wits affirme these things to haue any life or soule Or why shall it be counted follie to leaue a sword in the hand of a mad Bedlam Is not a sword also without life and soule For my part I should rather be of this minde that possession of things without reason is more dangerous and pernicious in the hands of an euill Master then the possession of things indued with life and reason For things without life lacke both reason and iudgement how to exempt and free themselues from being instruments in euill and wicked actions from beeing emploied to vngodly and abhominable vses I will not deny that an hereticall Prince is a plague a pernicious and mortal sicknes to the soules of his subiects But a breach made by one mischiefe must not be filled vp with a greater inconuenience An errour must not be shocked and shouldered with disloialtie nor heresie with periurie nor impietie with sedition and armed rebellion against God and the King God who vseth to try and to schoole his Church will neuer forsake his Church nor hath need to protect his Church by any proditorious and prodigious practises of perfidious Christians For hee makes his Church to be like the burning bush In the middest of the fire and flames of persecutions he will prouide that she shall not bee consumed because he standeth in the midst of his Church And suppose there may bee some iust cause for the French to play the rebels against their King yet will it not follow that such rebellious motions are to be raised by the bellowes of the Romane Bishop to whose Pastorall charge and office it is nothing proper to intermeddle in the ciuill affaires of forraine Kingdomes Here is the summe and substance of the L. Cardinals whole discourse touching his pretence of the second inconuenience Which discourse he hath closed with a remarkeable confession to wit that neither by the authoritie of holy Scripture nor by the testimony and verdict of the Primitiue Church there hath beene any full decision of this question In regard whereof he falleth into admiration that Lay-people haue gone so farre in audaciousnesse as to labour that a doubtfull doctrine might for euer passe currant and be taken for a newe article of faith What a shame what a reproach is this how full of scandall for so his Lordship is pleased to cry out This breakes into the seueralls and inclosures of the Church this lets in whole herds of heresies to grase in her green and sweet pastures On the other side without any such Rhetoricall outcries I simply affirme It is a reproach a scandall a crime of rebellion for a subiect hauing his full charge and loade of benefits in the newe spring of his Kings tender age his King-fathers blood yet reeking and vpon the point of an addresse for a double match with Spaine in so honourable an assembly to seek the thraldome of his Kings Crown to play the captious in cauilling about causes of his Kings deposing to giue his former life the lie with shame enough in his olde age and to make himselfe a common by-word vnder the name of a Problematicall Martyr one that offers himselfe to fagot and fire for a point of doctrine but problematically handled that is distrustfully and onely by way of doubtfull and questionable discourse yea for a point of doctrine in which the French as he pretendeth are permitted to thwart and crosse his Holines in iudgement prouided they speake in it as in a point not certaine and necessary but onely doubtfull and probable The third Jnconvenience examined THE third Inconuenience pretended by the L. Cardinall to growe by admitting this Article of the third Estate is flourished in these colours It would breede and bring forth an open and vnauoideable schism against his Holinesse and the rest of the whole Ecclesiasticall bodie For thereby the doctrine long approoued and ratified by the Pope and the rest of the Church should now be taxed and condemned of impious and most detestable consequence yea the Pope and the Church euen in faith and in points of saluation should be reputed and beleeued to be erroniously perswaded Hereupon his Lordship giues himselfe a large scope of the raines to frame his elegant amplifications against schismes and schismatikes Now to mount so high and to flie in such place vpon the wings of amplification for this Inconuenience what is it else but magnifically to report and imagine a mischeife by many degrees greater then the mischeife is The L. Cardinal is in a great error if he make himselfe beleeue that other nations wil make a rent or separation from the communion of the French because the French stand to it tooth and nayle that French Crownes are not liable or obnoxious to Papall deposition howsoeuer there is no schisme that importeth not separation of communion The most illustrious Republike of Venice hath imbarked herselfe in this quarrell against his Holinesse hath played her prize and carried away the weapons with great honour Doth she notwithstanding her triumph in the cause forbeare to participate with all her neighbors in the same Sacraments doth she liue in schisme with all the rest of the Romane Church No such matter When the L. Cardinal himselfe not many yeeres past maintained the Kings cause and stood honourably for the Kings right against the Popes Temporall vsurpations did he then take other Churches to be schismaticall or the rotten members of Antechrist Beleeue it who list I beleeue my Creed Nay his Lordship telleth vs himselfe a little after that his Holinesse giues the French free scope to maintaine either the affirmatiue or negatiue of this question And will his Holinesse hold them schismatikes that dissent from his opinion and iudgement in a subiect or cause esteemed problematicall Farre be it from his Holinesse The King of Spaine reputed the Popes right arme neuer gaue the Pope cause by any act or other declaration to conceiue that hee acknowledged himselfe deposeable by the Pope for heresie or Tyrannie or stupidity But beeing well assured the Pope standeth in greater feare of his arme then he doth of the Popes head and shoulders he neuer troubles his owne head about our question More when the booke of Cardinall Baronius was come forth in which booke the Kingdome of Naples is decryed and publiquely discredited like false money touching the qualitie of a Kingdome and attributed to the King of Spain not as true proprietary thereof but onely as an Estate held in fee of the Romane Church the King made no bones to condemne and to banish the said booke out of his dominions The holy Father was contented