the reprehension of my vehement speache doo fal into the selfe same Vehemencie Whose wordes are these M. Iewel M. Ievv blameth my vehemencie of speache him selfe being also no lesse vehement Pag. 94. Beholde your owne wordes so many so vaine so bitter so firie so furious al together in one place Are not these your owne wordes Are not these as vehemeÌ„t as you could deuise Wil you finde faulte with me for that you vse your selfe If vehement speache be to be vsed when the matter requireth why blame you me If not why doo you so often vse it Whether you and Luther doo vse it iustly for the zeale of Goddes glorie aske that of them that wrote the Confession of the Churche of Zurich Your owne frendes the Ministers of that congregation doo set forth Luther for his outragious and filthy railing against them in his colours and speake of him as of a very vile felow and paie him home againe with as good as he brought Reade the booke and ye shal finde it to be true Howbeit I could sende you to many other bookes of your brethren fraught with muche more vile stuffe of railing then that litle booke conteineth with al whiche you are better acquainted then I am The Confutation of the Apologie The seconde parte the 2. Chapter Confut fo 44. b Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe aâ— other waie bicause Christe is head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie Menne be called heades in as muche as they be in steede of Christ and vnder Christ after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians for if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it 2. Cor. 2. for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe And in an other place 2. Cor. 5. We are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in few 〈◊〉 vvhat sense Christe is named the Head of the Churche and in vvhat sense the Pope is so named according to inwarde influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is the head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christ and in steede of Christ is head of the same Iewel Pag. 94. To the matter ye saie that touching the influence of grace Christe onely is the head of the Churche but touching direction and gouernemeÌ„t the Pope only as the head Al this is but your ovvne tale M. Harding ye speake it onely of your selfe other authoritie of Scripture or Doctour you bringe vs none Harding Dogge eloquence proued no vnwoonted terme and how the Pope is Head of the Churche To the mater ye saie And truly wel said of you The .7 Chapt For hitherto you haue not directed your talke to the mater but to the person of your Aduersarie with whom you shew your selfe greuously offended for calling the Currish and snarling vtterance of Luther Dogge eloquence And whereas you would faine draw the same to the preiudice of my modestie I trust you that are so great a Rhetorician and so wel seene in poetes Fables wil iudge so muche the better of me for so muche as Quintilian that modeste and graue Oratour and Ouide also no Poete Satyrical thought suche phrase of speache not vnmeete for the countenance of modestie and humanitie that they bare in the worlde For if you remember Canina Eloquentia QuintiliaÌ„ lib. 12. c. 9 Ouid. in Ibin is Quintilians worde calle it dogge eloquence dogged eloqueÌ„ce or dogges eloquence or how soeuer otherwise it please you to terme it And Ouid saith Latrâ—◠〈◊〉 in toro verba canina foro If for the vse of this auncient terme I seeme to passe the boundes of modestie specially attributing it vnto Luther whose heretical and Deuilish vtterance is coÌ„monly in deede farre worse then the barking of any Dogge or the hissing of any Serpent what wil you saie of the Scolding of your hote brother M. Calfhil But now that after muche idle and impertinent talke you are come to the mater what saie you that is worth the hearing M. Iewels foule falsifying of my vvordes Thus you saie Ye saie that touching the influence of Grace Christe onely is the Head of the Churche I graunt I say so in deede Go ye forth and make no lye but touching direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Yea sir Where saie I so You should haue caused your printer to haue falsified that senteÌ„ce of mine that at your owne pleasure the simplest of your owne poore Fauourers who take al for the Gospel that you saie or write might not in your owne booke espie your shamelesse lying For euen there notwithstanding your coÌ„mon falsifyinges other where 's and also there they maie finde my saying otherwise reported It is an euident argument that myne owne wordes were to true for you to confute sith that you thought it necessarie least you should seme ouercome to alter and change them for other wordes of your own which being false to the vnlearned reader I might seeme to speake fondly and besides al truth For how is it likely I should saie that touching Direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Your fetche was to bring your vnlearned fauourers by whom you are magnified to beleeue that from the Direction and gouernement of the Church I excluded Christe and the holy Ghoste the spirite of truth Which God forbid I should doo Now the true wordes of my Confutation in this place are these Defence Pag. 92. whiche the Reader maie see also in the booke of your Defence although very much mangled and falsified of set purpose to thintent the force of truth by me opened should not be seene as by view of my booke it maie clearely appeare Where thus I saie For Head and Spouse alone he is of his kingdom in one respecte not alone in an other respect * Confut. fol. 44. a. left out by M. Ie. For a cleare declaration whereof it is to be vnderstanded that being of a Head maie be considered after two waies The being of a Head considered tvvo vvaies either according to the inward influence so as the vertue and power of mouing and of sense is deriued from the head vnto the other members or according to outward gouernment right so as a man is directed in his outward actes according to the sight and other senses AccordiÌ„g to it ward influence of grace Christe onely is Head of the Churche In respect of outvvard gouernement the name of Head is attributed to others beside Christe which haue their roote in the head Now the inwarde influence of grace is not of any other but of Christe only Bicause Christes manhood onely hath power to iustifie for that the same only is ioyned personally to the Godhead * According to this inward influence of Grace Christ properly and only is Head of his mystical body the Church But as touching
should chalenge that name vnto him These thinges are at large proued and set forth bothe by me in my Answer Ansvver to your Chalenge Artic. 4. fol. 90. b. Returne Artic. 4. and by M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes against you M. Iewel where you shal finde that S. Gregorie did exercise his iurisdiction ouer al the Bishops in the worlde in case they failed in any thing and tooke him selfe to haue cure and charge of them al not as a King and Tyrant but as a brother yea rather a seruant to al. Gregor Lib. 7. Epist 64. For he confesseth euery Bishop to be his equal so long as he sinneth not or as longe as his Church suffereth not some defecte And in that case he supplieth al negligences and al defectes and prouideth for al Churches in Asia in Europa and in Aphrica as his Epistles doo fully declare The whiche if I were disposed here ambitiously to blase as M. Iewelles custome is I might write out the effecte of twelue great bookes of S. Gregories epistles whiche doo fully proue these my sayinges But for so muche as that is already donne sufficiently let this one sentence serue for al. S. Gregorie saith of his owne Church of Rome The Apostolike See Head of al churches Gregor li. 11. epist 54. Apostolica Sedes omnium Ecclesiarum Caput est The Apostolike See is the Head of al Churches This being so let vs now consider that M. Iewel doth not only mislike with the name of Vniuersal Bishop as not becoÌ„ming the Bishop of Constantinople because he was of lower degree then the Bishop of Rome nor only as vnseemely also for the Bishop of Rome bicause it conteineth a proude and ambitious brag and a meaning that may be taken in euil sense for which cause no Bishop of Rome euer vsed that name Defence pag. 118. but also he misliketh with me for saying that the name of Vniuersal Bishop in a right sense is no proude name in respect of him to whom it belongeth By a right sense I meane that sense which S. Gregorie allowed and that whiche the fourth general Councel allowed Yea farther M. Iewel saith that some Popes would haue had Ibidem and ambitiously laboured for the title of Vniuersal Bisshop and againe that the Councel of Carthage forbad the Pope of Rome to be called the Vniuersal Bisshop Al these thinges are false and fond as now it shal be proued Gregor li. 4. epist 32 ad Mauricium IteÌ„ eodeÌ„ lib. epist 36. ad Eulogium Anastasium Item codem lib. epist 38. ad Iohannem CoÌ„stantinop Gregor li. 4. epist 36 Tâ—e name of Vniuersal Bishop offered to Popâ— Leo by the Councel of Chalcedon The name of Vniuersal 8. in vvhat sense agreable to the â—ope Firste S. Gregorie witnesseth that the fourthe Councel offered the name of Vniuersal Bishop to Pope Leo â–ª Therefore saie I there is a good meaning in that name whiche the See of Rome maie laufully vse For it is not to be thought that the fourth Vniuersal Councel assembled out of the whole worlde wherein were six hundred thirty and six Bishops would haue offered that name vnto the Pope whiche by no meanes could be verified of him S. Gregories wordes are these written to Eulogius and Anastasius the two patriarches of Alexandria and of Antioche Sicut veneranda vestra sanctitas nouit vni per sanctam Chalcedonensem synodum Pontifici sedis Apostolicae cui Deo disponente deseruio hoc Vniuersitatis nomen oblatum est As your Reuerend holines knoweth this name of Vniuersalitie or of Vniuersal Bishop was offered by the holy Councel of Chalcedon to the only Bishop of the Apostolike See wherein I serue by the disposition of God If then that name of Vniuersalitie was offered to the Pope and onely to him how can it be iustified that the said name may in no sense be agreeable vnto the Pope of Rome If it may be agreeable vnto the Pope in any sense it is in this bicause he is the chiefe of al Bishops who by office hath care of the whole Churche For the name of Vniuersal must needes haue respecte to the Whole Churche And in that only sense did the Fathers of that Councel of Chalcedon offer that name to the Pope bicause they knew that thing dignitie and office to be in the Pope for that he is S. Peters Successour whiche cause also is expressed in S. Gregorie Gregor lib 4. epist 32. Certè nomen Vniuersalis Episcopi pro beati Petri Apostolorum Principis honore per venerandam Chalcedonensem SynoduÌ„ Romano Pontifici oblatum est Soothly the name of Vniuersal Bishop was offered by the reuerend Councel of Chalcedon to the Bishop of Rome for the honour of S. Peter the Prince of the Apostles Marke M. Iewel he saith not that it was offered bicause Rome was the Emperial Citie That had ben a heathnish respecte but it was offered for the honour of S. Peter If it may then be vsed in a good sense only of that Bishop who is the Successour of S. Peter M. Iewel hath vniustly reproued me That no Pope vsed the title of Vniuersal Bishop Gregor li. 4. epis 32 Now to the second point that no Pope vsed the same title So saith S. Gregorie in the same place Nullus corum vnquam hoc singularitatis vocabulum assumpsit nec vti consensit ne dum priuatum aliquid daretur vni honore debito Sacerdotes priuarentur vniuersi None of the Bishops of Rome hath taken this name of Singularitie vpon him nor did consent to vse it lest whiles some peculiar thing should be geuen to one al Priestes or Bishops together should be depriued of their due honour This modestie was then in Popes for six hundred yeres together But this man here saith Iewel Pag. 118. VVherfore then did their Successours that folovved aftervvard so ambitiously labour to geate the same Harding They laboured not for it nor vsed it any time afterward as their style in al ages til this day doth witnesse For the Bishoppes of Rome doth not write them selues Vniuersal Bishops The Popes stile Seruus seruoruÌ„ Dei but eche one Seruum Seruorum Dei the Seruant of Goddes Seruantes And that style was of purpose taken and reteined of them to checke thereby the pride of the Bishop of Constantinople who neuer leaft his proude name of Vniuersal til the Turcke was sent ouer him to chasten bothe him for his Shisme and al that defended or obeied him in despite of the Bishop of Rome And that you bring out of Platina proueth not that any Pope euer called him selfe Vniuersal Bishop but when the Bishops of Rome sawe that the Bishops of Constantinople would needes by force keepe and vse that arrogant name Bonifacius 3. then Bonifacius the third intending to stay that together with that name the right of the See Apostolike should not be lost and passe away to the See of Constantinople then I
it Of the povver of Priesthod He that listeth to see more of the necessitie of Confession maie resorte to M. Allens learned booke of the lawful power of Priesthod to remitte sinnes The fifth booke conteineth a Detection of M. Iewelles errours lies sclaunders c. touching the Marriages of Priestes and Votaries the Canonical Scriptures the Sacramentes and other pointes of Doctrine The wordes of the Apolagie In the Defence 2. parte ca. 8. Diuision 1. Pag. 163. VVe saie that Matrimonie is holy and honourable in al sortes and states of personnes as in the Patriarkes in the Prophetes in the Apostles in the holy Martyrs in the Ministers of the Churche and in Bishoppes and that it is an honest and lavvful thing as Chrysostom saith for a man liuing in matrimonie to take vpō him therevvith the dignitie of a Bishop Confutation fol. 73. b. Matrimonie is holy and honorable in al persons and an vndefyled bedde as sayth S. Paule Hebre. 13. Yet is it not lawful for them to marye whiche either haue by deliberate vowe dedicated almaner their chastitie vnto God or haue receiued holy order For the vowed be forbidden mariage by expresse word of God Those that haue taken holy orders by tradition of the Apostles and auncient ordinaunce of the Church Touching the first the Scripture is plaine bicause a vowe is to be performed Psal 75. Vouete reddite Domino Deo vestro Vowe ye and paye or render that ye vowe to your Lorde God Christ also sayeth in the gospel Matt. 19. there be some eunuches that haue made them selues eunuches for the kingdome of heauens sake He that can take let him take Vovve-breakers in vvhat danger they stād 1. Tim. 5. Againe S. Paul speaking of young widowes which haue vowed and promised chastitie sayeth that when they waxe wanton against Christ they wil mary hauing damnation bicause they haue broken their first faith Whether these scriptures perteine hereto and be thus to be vnderstanded we referre vs to the primitiue Church and to al the holy Fathers * Frō starre to starre leafte out of M Ievels booke VVhat the Fathers haue iudged of mariages after vovv of chastitie De bono viduitatis Whosoeuer haue thus vowed chastitie or by receiuing holy orders haue bound them selues to the bond of cōtinencie to the same by auncient constitution of the Church annexed if afterward presuming to marye excuse the satisfying of their carnal lust with the name of wedlocke be they men be they women they liue in a damnable state and be worse then Aduouterers * Suche mariages or rather slydinges and falles frō the holier Chastitie that is vowed to God S. Augustine doubteth not but they be worse then aduowtries S. Cyprian calleth this case plaine incest S. Basile accompteth the mariages of vailed Virgins to be void of no force and facrilegious She that hath dispoused her selfe to our Lorde sayeth S. Basile is not free lib. de virginitate For her husband is not dead that she may mary to whom she list And whiles her immortal husband lyueth she shal be called an aduoutresse whiche for lustes of the flesh hath brought a mortal man into our Lordes chamber * Leaft out by M. Iev The case is like in the man And whereas such persons with deliberate vowe purposed to consecrat them selues to our Lord only maides by virginitie widowes by chastitie of widowehod priestes by single life and continencie they may not with good conscience marye bicause the lust of the flesh foloweth not that former purpose but draweth the soule to her vices from that whereto it is bounde For what so euer is the worke sayeth S. Basile before whiche reason and lawe goeth not in the mynde the same is of the conscience noted for vnlawful Of al such after many wordes vttered in reproufe of their lewdnes he concludeth that they folow not wedlocke but aduoutrie But for proufe that vowed persons may not marye it were not hard to alleage so muche out of the fathers as would fil a volume * Clerkes boūde to cōtinēcie Li. 1. c. 11 Paphutius Li. 1. c. 23. Touching the second the Apostles forbidde those that come single to the Clergie to marye except such as remaine in the inferiour orders and procede not to the greater as we find in their canons Can. 25. Paphnutius as Socrates and Sozomenus record in their Ecclesiastical storie said at the Nicene Councel that it was an old tradition of the Church that such as come to the degree or order of Priesthod single should not marye wiues And this is that holy Bishop Paphnutius whom these Euangelical vowe-breakers pretend to be their proctour for their vnlawful mariages * Leaft out by M. Iev Siritius and Innocentius vver not the first ordeiners of clerkes cōtinēcie Neither Pope Siritius and Innocentius the first who liued long aboue a thousand yeres past were the first makers of the lawe that forbiddeth Priestes to marie but declaring that the same was of olde time ordeined and vsed of the Church they condemne the disorders against the same committed * Reade who list the epistle of Siritius ad Himerium Tarraconensem cap. 7. the second epistle of Innocentius to Victricius Bishop of Roen cap. 9. and his third epistle to Exuperius B. of Tolouse cap. 1. and weighing wel these places he shal perceiue that these holy Popes forbad the ministers of the Church the vse of wedlocke by the same reason by which the priestes of Moses lawe were forbidden to come within their owne houses in the time when their course came to serue in the holy ministeries By the same reason also by whiche S. Paule required maried folke for a time to forbeare the vse of their wiues 1. Cor. 7. that they might attend praying The place of S. Chrysostome alleaged by this Defender wel considered Ansvver to Chrysostoms place disproueth no part of the Catholike doctrine in this hehalfe but condemneth both the doctrine and common practise of his companions these newe fleshly Gospellers His wordes be these vpon the saying of S. Paule In 1. cap. ad Tit. homil 2. that a Bishop ought to be without crime the husband of one wife The Apostle sayeth he stoppeth the mouthes of Heretikes which condemne mariage shewing that it is not an vncleane thing but so reuerent that with the same a man may ascend to the holy throne or seate he meant the state of a Bishop and herewith he chastiseth and restraineth the vnchast persons Tvvise married may not be Bishops ād vvhy Secōd mariages lauful yet open to accusations Leaft out by M. Iev not permitting thē who haue twise maried to atteine such a rome For whereas he kepeth no beneuolēce toward his wife deceased how can he be a good gouernour Yea what greuous accusations shal not he be subiect vnto daily For ye al knowe right wel that albeit by the lawes the secōd mariages be permitted yet that
of God Traditions c. The second Chapter Ievvel Pag. 193. In prooem in prouer Salomon Touching the booke of the Machabees vve saie nothing but that vve finde in S. Hierome S. Augustine and they holy fathers S. Hierom saith the Church receiueth them not emong the Canonical allovved scriptures Harding The bookes of the Machabees canonical emonge the faithful S. Hierome speaketh of such Canonical Scriptures of the olde Testament as the very Iewes allowed for Canonical Such in deede the bookes of the Machabees are not But why haue you not alleged S. Augustines wordes as wel as S. Hieromes Certainely bicause they condemne you For if yee said al that of the bookes of the Machabees which S. Augustine saith you would allowe them for Canonical Scriptures amonge faithful Christians August de De Ciuitat Dei lib. 18. ca. â—6 He saith Machabaeorum libros non Iudaei sed Ecclesia pro Canonicis habet As for the bookes of the Machabees not the Iewes but the Church accoÌ„pteth them for Canonical Hereunto I maiâ— adde but M. Iewel and his Companions accompte not the bookes of the Machabees for Canonical 〈◊〉 theâ—â—in they are of the Iewes Synagog and not of the Church of Christ Now see good Reader â–ª 〈…〉 be made when he said as thou findest noted in the mâ—rgeâ— of his booke Pag. 191. that he would denie no more then S. Austine S. Hierom and other Fathers haue â—enied If you say ye deny not the bookes of the Machabees â–ª 〈◊〉 â—eproue you praying for the dead which is so sufficiâ—â—â—y proued by those bookes Soothly if you allow the one you must allow the other Ievvel Pag. 193. S. Iames epistle Eusebius saith S. Iames Epistle vvas vvritten by some other and not by S. Iames VVe must vnderstand saith Eusebius that it is a bastard epistle Harding You haue abused Eusebius For he leaueth not there but goeth forward shewing what he ment by his word li. 2. c. 23. li. 2. c. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whiche you turne is a bastard But Ruffinus more ciuilly translated it à noÌ„nullis non recipitur The epistle is not receiued of some men And Eusebius him selfe addeth Nos tameÌ„ scinius etiaÌ„ istas cuÌ„ caeteris publicè aplerisque fuisse Ecclesiis receptas Yet we know that S. Iames and S. Iudes Epistles with the rest haue ben publikely receiued of most Churches wherby we learne that Eusebius meaÌ„t by the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 asmuch to say as it is accompted of some men not to be S. Iames owne Touching his owne iudgement he sheweth him selfe to be of the opinion that it is S. Iames epistle Of some he coÌ„fesseth by those wordes that it was doubted of Therfore you haue reported Eusebius vntruly making him to pronounce negatiuely of the epistle which directly he hath not don Iewel S. Hierome saith It is said that the Epistle of S. Iames vvas set forth by some other man vnder his name Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Harding I graunte But S. Hierom had said before those wordes which you allege Vnam tantum scripsit Epistolam quae de septem Catholicis est He wrote onely one epistle which is one of the seuen Canonical Epistles Hiero. iâ— catalogâ— Ecclesi script Againe after the wordes by you alleged it followeth that the said epistle in processe of time hath obteined authoritie Ievvel 194. VVe Lutherans and Zuinglians agree throughly together in the vvhole substance of the Religion of Christe Harding I perceiue the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud is no substantial point with you and yet he that receiueth it vnworthily 1. Cor. 11. receiueth his damnation And he can not receiue it worthily who beleeueth amisse of it But either the Lutherans or the Zuinglians or bothe beleeue amisse thereof bicause in that behalfe they â—eache cleane contrary doctrine Therefore either both as the truth is or one of those two sectes as them selues must confesse receiueth alwaies vnworthily and consequently they must confesse that one of the two sectes is vtterly damned without any hope of saluation And certainely the Zuinglians as also the Caluinistes are the worse bicause they beleeue Goddes word lesse in some degree then Luther taught and go further from the literal sense of his Gospel 1. Timo. 3. and from the beleefe of the Church which is the piller of truthe Iewel 194. The Church is not God nor is able of her selfe to make or alter any article of the faith Harding Esai 59. Ioan. 14. But she is the spouse of God and to her he hath promised both his wordes and his spirite to remaine with her for euer And therefore she is the chiefe witnes of al the articles of the faith Wherefore seing you hearâ— not her witnesse you ought to be vnto vs as an Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publican Iewel Isai 8. Esaie saith to the lavv rather and to the testimonie If they ansvver not according to this vvorde they shal haue no Morning light Harding Iere. 31. Hebre. 8. This lawe is written also in our hartes as Ieremie and S. Paul doo witnesse And the successours of the Apostles geue also a testimonie of Christe no lesse Ioan. 15. then Christe said the Apostles should doo Therefore the lawe and testimonie whereunto Esaie calleth is as wel that which is written in faithful mennes hartes and which is witnessed in the Church as that which is written in the olde and new Testament Iewel Pag. 194. M. Harding saith further If quietnesse of Conscience comme of the vvorde of God onely then had Abel no more quietnesse of conscience then vvicked restlesse Cain c. VVho vvould thinke that M. Harding bearing suche a countenance of Diuinitie vvould thus goe about to deceiue him false vvith a pointe of Sophistrie Harding Who would thinke that M. Iewel being pressed with a point whereunto he is not hable to make answere would not thus go about to deceiue his vnlearned Reader with a point of Sophistrie I praie thee reader take the paines to peruse what the Apologie saith what I haue said in my CoÌ„futation and what M. Iewel bringeth in the Defence touching this matter I desire no more but that thou read it and then iudge as thou seest cause It is an easy matter for M. Iewel when he hath made me to speake what he listeth to frame an answere accordingly But I must alwaies warne the reader not to beleue M. Iewel when so euer he reporteth either my wordes or any other mannes M. Ievv shifteth him selfe from Scripture to Goddes vvorde but to repaire to the Original Fot seldom is he founde cleere of the crime of falsifying And here he entwiteth me of Sophistrie wheras in deede he vseth the grossest sleight of Sophistrie him selfe He conueigheth him selfe from the Canonical Scriptures to Goddes worde Now I spake of the Scriptures and he answereth of Goddes worde Defence pag 191. Whereas it is said in the Apologie that
his quotations to be in my said two Bookes whiche are not there in deede altogether in that order and meaning as he vntruly hath alleged them I proue his dealing herein partely to be agreable to his other false demeanour and partely that good and iust causes there were why I should writing against him vse suche order of language Furthermore bicause he woulde the great and manifolde Vntruthes with whiche I charged him to seeme no Vntruthes at al but that al is the Gospel what so euer commeth from his Mouthe and whereas for proufe thereof he hath set forth a View of his Vntruthes the least of al that he could espie by me noted against him and pretendeth to iustifie the same his least Vntruthes in the said View I haue made an answere to that View of Vntruthes and there doo shewe manifestly specially in the chiefe pointes where errour is most perilous that he was truely and iustly charged with those Vntruthes and that for ought he hath yet said in Defence of them he remaineth stil chargeable with the same as before This muche I haue perfourmed in the first Booke After this in foure bookes folowing I detecte his Errours Lies Cauilles shiftes Sclaunders and sundrie vntrue matters founde in the firste and seconde parte of his Defence And in respecte thereof I cal the Treatie A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. At length hauing tried by very certaine experience and exacte view of the whole Booke that there was no ende of lying what place so euer in reading my eie lighted vppon I thought it most profitable and most agreable with my profession to let passe thinges of smal importance the handeling of whiche serued him specially to scoffe to vtter vile matter againste the Churche and to fil vp his Booke in tended at the beginning to be made greate and to treate of the Articles of Doctrine in defence of the Truthe and to confute what he hath brought to the contrarie Among whiche Articles of doctrine of some I haue treated briefly as being alreadie treated of in my Confutation and otherwheres of some at good length and with more diligence as of Succession and of the vnlawful Marriages of Priestes and al other Votaries wherein he is very large and copious of Doctours sayinges of al sortes but vtterly destitute of any one saying that maketh cleerely for his parte In the ende I doo most euidently disproue and refel what he was hable to bring for Defence of two pointes which he is not ashamed to affirme seming to me the one very false the other very sclaunderous The first is as he auoucheth them that matters of faith and Ecclesiastical causes are to be iudged by the Ciuile Magistrate The other is that the Papistes haue taught that simple Fornication is no sinne How weake proufes he bringeth for the one and for the other and yet how shamelesly he goeth about to prooue them by conference of bothe our Treaties it shal appeare Withal there I haue added a Comparison of Errours in mistaking names of menne bookes Chapters c. with whiche M. Iewel chargeth me and I him Matters let passe vvith treating vvhereof the Defence is grovven to a Huge Volume Thus haue I declared in fewe the Summe as it were and Order of this Treatie As for sundrie other matters as of forged Scriptures of the doctrine of Deuilles so he calleth the forbidding of Priestes Monkes Friers and Nunnes to marrie of the fruites of single life whereof he laith out great stoare of filthy sayinges of S. Iames Epistle whether it be Canonical Scripture of sundrie ancient Traditions now growen out of vse of the Fourmes and Accidentes whereat he scoffeth like a Vice plaier of the number of the Sacraments of the Churche which we defende to be seuen he affirmeth to be but two or els so many as the thinges be vnto which the name of Sacrament is by any Writer applied which are very many of the Faith of Infantes of their new found Imaginatiue Faith or rather phantastical Imaginatiō that eateth the bodie and drinketh the bloud of Christ of the Popes Dispensations of dissensions among the Fathers of Nominales and Reales of Thomistes and Scotistes of diuersitie of religious persons Apparel wherein he saith they put great holinesse of the variance betwen the Lutherās and the Zuinglians of the fable of Dame Iohane the woman Pope of the Marble Image lying in the high way at Rome of the stoole of easement of Porphyrie stoane at Lateran of Athenes and Rome whether they were Vniuersities in the time this Dame Iohane is feyned to haue liued in of the vicious life of Petrus Aloisius Duke of Parma and Placentia of Iohn Diazius death of the slaughter of the Boures of Germanie that tooke weapons against the nobilitie there prouoked by the preaching of Luther and his scholers of Constantines Donation of Poison ministred in the Sacrament as he reporteth feined fables for stories of great soothe of the abomination of desolation of the state of the Church of Rome of Antichrist of the mistaking of Cardinal Hosius of their pretensed burning of the Scriptures of S. Augustine the Apostle of the English Nation that he was a wicked man of Priestes keeping of Concubines of Images of Latine Praiers and Churche Seruice of Comparison of learning betwene the Catholiques and the Protestantes of Rome whether it be Babylon of summoning of Councelles of the Stewes in Rome whereof gladly he vttereth muche talke of kissing the Popes foote of the Popes hurling of Franciscus Daldulus fast tied in chaines vnder his table there to gnaw boanes with his Dogges of the Popes Bridle and Stirop to be holden by Princes of Pope Hildebrandes surmised wicked deedes as they fable of the Popes treadding on the Emperours necke of the Pope whether he be euer holy of the Popes Exactions of the Cheast in the Popes bosom whether the Pope be God of the Popes power feined to be ouer Angels whether the Pope can commit Simonie whether the Pope be King of Kinges whether the Pope be aboue general Councels whether the Pope maie erre or no whether the Pope be a Kinge Of these and of a great many moe suche matters whereof some be lothesom some be fabulous vaine and friuolous some be false sclaunderous and spiteful some blasphemous some alreadie sufficiently treated of briefly al tending vnto the contempt of the Catholique Religion as M. Iewel handleth them in which matters he hath vttered the stoare of his learning Of these I saie I haue said nothing much disaduantaging my selfe thereby and the common cause which I defend for so much as in the making vp of his great Booke with heaping together these ministerly matters he hath vttered as he doth euery where els good stoare of most euident and grosse Lies of which his owne frendes and best fauourers in case thei were detected would be ashamed These forenamed be the thinges which I haue briefly handled and these other and
Reader how he keepeth him selfe a luffe of from the point with what stuffe he filleth certaine leaues of his Booke how he starreth from Doctour to Doctour how he confoundeth him selfe and the Reader and though he bring neuer so much out of other Writers yet commeth not at al to the point directly First Pag. 165. he laboureth to discredite the holy Ancient Fathers as menne that haue not dealte indifferently herein but haue gonne to farre either in the auancing of Virginitie or in the disgracing of lawful Matrimonie Before he entreth his Allegations whereof that whole Treatie standeth he putteth foorth twoo sayinges the one of Origen the other of S. Hierome in reproufe of them that condemned Matrimonie And yet euen there immediatly after he allegeth them both for condemners of Matrimonie Then he laith foorth the stoare of his Allegations whereby he would haue it appeare Tertulliā alleged by M. Ievvel against the Churche in that for vvhiche he is condēned of the Churche that certaine Ancient Writers had an euil opinion of Matrimonie There he allegeth two sayinges of Tertullian in exhortatione ad castitatem whiche Booke he wrote against the Churche as S. Hierome saith and therefore it is condemned of the Churche for whiche cause he should not haue alleged him then twoo sayinges out of the Authour of the imperfite worke vppon S. Matthew vnder the name of S. Chrysostome which also is a worke ful of heresies Item certaine sayinges out of S. Hierome writing against Iouinian and Heluidius Againe sayinges out of Athenagoras S. Hierome Gregorie Nazianzen and Origen by whiche he beareth the Reader in hande they haue condemned the seconde Marriages of Widowers and Widowes After this he reckeneth vp so manie Priestes Pag. 166. and Bishops as he hath read of to haue benne married menne who in deede were married before they receiued holy Orders and not otherwise There Palea Palea that is to say the Chaffe that is set out in Gratian concerning Priestes and Bishops that were many Popes Fathers a very fonde fabulous tale is admitted to the place of a great Doctor yet by him much falsified Pag. 167. and altered from that he found in Gratians booke There also beside the report of Aeneas Syluius whiche him selfe recanted and of Polydore Vergil a man of our time and in these matters of smal credite he sticketh not to praie helpe of one Fabian a late seely Chronicler of London and with his woorshipful testimonie forsooth would faine prooue his mater that is to saie with a maine Lie that Bishoppes and Priestes lyued a thousand yeres together with their Wiues no lawe being to the contrarie Nowe were al these thinges true according to the purporte of M. Iewelles doctrine as for the more parte they are very false and the Doctours by him corrupted and very vntruly reported what should they make for his purpose I meane for the point it selfe of this Controuersie which is that it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie or after holy Orders receiued For I trow M. Iewel wil not vse this simple kind of Logique Certaine ancient Writers condemned Matrimonie which is vtterly false in respecte of al others by M Iewel here named excepte Tertullian that condemned the seconde Marriages whom the Churche for the same reiecteth Item certaine learned and holy menne in the Primitiue Churche were made Priestes and Bisshoppes after they had benne married Ergo it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie and after holy Orders taken As this reason is fonde and litle worth so al the sayinges of Writers whiche he hath heaped together hitherto serue him to no purpose but to increase the bulke of his Booke After al this feeling him selfe pressed with the force of the Vowe which being aduisedly made is of necessitie to be performed as I prooued in my Confutation to keepe him selfe stil a luffe of from the point of the Question he taketh a newe waie saying that the Priestes in England were neuer Votaries Touching this matter whether the Priestes of England were Votaries or no F◠290. ◠I referre the Reader vnto the first Chapter of the fifth booke of this Treatie Howsoeuer it be by this answer M. Iewel fleeth from the point as farre as he fled before For the Question is whether Priestes in general that haue made a Vowe of Chastitie maie marrie and he answereth that Priestes of England be not Votaries Which answer serueth as aptly in this case as if a question being demaūded of him whether Heretikes are to be burned he would answer we the Superintendentes of England and our Ministers be no heretiques From this he conueigheth him selfe to certaine common places and bringeth in a Huge number of Doctours sayinges tending to this meaning in effect that Chastitie is hard to keepe that it is the gifte of God that God geueth it not to al that it is to be counselled but not commaunded that a man consider wel of what strength he is and if he see him selfe not hable to perfourme the preceptes of Virginitie that rather then he fal into the dungeon of deadly sinne he take a wife and vse the remedie ordeined against incontinencie Al which sayinges we graunt be true and are to be vnderstanded of them whiche be free and haue not bounde them selues by deliberate Vowe to conteine To be shorte it were a very tedious thing here to reherse how he ronneth from Doctour to Doctour how he craueth stuffing of the Canonistes and Schoolemen whom God wote he litle esteemeth how he writeth out their sentences and therewith filleth vp his Booke As for the ancient Doctours sayinges that folow after al this they are spoken some against the perfourmance of wicked Vowes some serue for admonition that certaine maie be suffred to marrie who hauing made onely a simple Vowe either can not or wil not conteine and that the Marriages of suche personnes ought to stand for good and not to be dissolued some importe rebuke of filthy life and exhortation to Chastitie some be written against them that either vtterly condemned the state of Matrimonie or willed Priestes and Deacons in the Primitiue Churche to be compelled to forsake the companie of their lawful Wiues whiche they had married before they receiued holy Orders Thus he writeth out other mennes sayinges without order or discretiō skippeth from one matter to an other and emptieth as it were the stoare of his Notebookes into this Defence and when he hath shuffled in al he proueth nothing directly but onely bringeth the Reader to a Confusion and commeth not at al to the discussion of the point that we staie vpon whiche in this matter of Priestes Marriages is that to marrie it is not lawful after deliberate Vowe of chastitie made nor after holy Orders receiued What colourable argumentes or testimonies he bringeth to proue the affirmatiue Infrà lib. 5 Cap. 2 in this Treatie Reader thou shalt see them cleerely confuted Likewise to shew
thee an other example hauing taken vpon him to proue Defence Pag. 157. that the Canonistes haue taught the people that Fornication betwen single folke is no sinne it is a worlde to see what a doo he maketh what a number of Allegations he hudleth together and when he hath vttered al his stoare he is as farre from proufe of that he tooke in hand to proue as he was before he beganne So that in effecte nothing thereby is done but onely malice shewed and incke and paper spent First to make a great shewe Defence 360. and to increase his Volume for to what other purpose I see not he telleth vs of certaine beastly sayinges of Aetius the olde Heretique and of Prodicus the heathen philosopher as though the Canonistes were to be blamed for the faultes of the Heretiques and Infidelles of olde time Nexte he bringeth in Laurentius Valla the Grammarian whose saying though it be not needeful here to reherse for the reuerence of chaste eares yet it maie with a conuenient interpretation be honestly defended Then Richardus de Sancto Victore a late Schooleman and Socrates the Historiographer are haled in to geue their verdite and though they tel vs of the corrupte iudgement of certaine that made litle accompte in conscience of Fornication and whooredome yet that the Popes Canonistes taught the people that simple Fornication is no sinne thereof they speake not one word Which bicause M. Iewel him selfe perceiued right wel he preuēted that he feared would be obiected and after that number of impertinent allegations M. Ievvelles But. commeth in as his manner is with his But saying But ye wil saie al this hitherto perteineth nothing vnto the Canonistes To whom answere maie be returned that so it is in deed and whereas he knew it him selfe what meant he neuerthelesse to put it in but to increase the heape of his Volume After this he pretendeth to come to the very point and to hit the naile on the head as they saie And there he taketh aduantage of a Decree of the first Toletane Councel falsly reported in Gratian by the ouersight of the printer in an olde Copie many other Copies being true whiche aduantage neuerthelesse eftsones there he forgoeth confessing the Copie to be false Yet al must in to fil vp the great booke Then he goeth to the true Copie and either by ignorance he mistaketh the place or by malice falsifieth the sense dissembling that the worde Concubina Cōcubina is oftentimes taken in good parte to witte for a woman vsed in al respectes like a Wife and with the intent and affection of wedlocke before the Marriage be openly solemnized This shal be better perceiued by reading that I haue said hereof Lib. 5. cap. 15. From that Councel whiche was holden long before any of the Canonistes whom so fowly he sclaundereth wrote letter he goeth to peake in his Gloses the Gloses I meane vpon Otho whom like an vnskilful lawier he maketh one with Otho bonus and vpon the Decrees of Gratian. The one Gloselie falsifieth by leauing out a worde of chiefe importance the other of purpose he misconstrueth the rest that he allegeth out of an other Glose and out of one Petrus Rauennas a Canoniste is true and perteineth nothing to the wicked doctrine whereof he accuseth the Canonistes From the Gloses he starteth to S. Augustine in Enchiridio ad Laurentium Defence 361. And out of him he taketh a sentence vtterly to no purpose but to fil vp the paper From S. Augustine to the Councel of Basile then to Erasmus in Enchiridio militis Christiani belying them bothe From Erasmus he crepeth to Iacobus de Valentia Iacob de Valentia in Psal 118 saying of Iewes Saracenes and certaine il Christian menne that to excuse their detestable life they affirme simple Fornication to be lawful But what is this to the Canonistes From this Iacobus the Spaniard of Valentia he conueieth him selfe to Alexander of Hales the English man and from him to Antonius of Florence the Italian But at their handes he findeth no more reliefe then he founde at the others By Antonius it is roported onely that their errour is confuted who saie that simple Fornication is no sinne In Alexander there is nothing founde but onely a saying pretended to be S. Ambroses whiche maketh nothing to the purpose neither is it at al being vttered in suche wordes to be found in S. Ambrose At length he endeth this matter with a falsified saying of S. Augustine making that holy Father as vntruly he reporteth his tale to saie that he can not tel whether that kinde of Fornication whiche single menne committe with single womenne be forbidden or no. Whiche were it true that S. Augustine so said as in deede he saith it not but speaketh otherwise as here the reader shal finde by me declared yet by that the sclaunder vttered against the Canonistes is not iustified This muche haue I here noted for examples sake to the intent thou maist vnderstand Reader what order he keepeth commonly in his writing and whereof it commeth that his bookes rise to suche a huge quantitie And as he hath donne in these two matters so hath he donne in the reste very fewe excepted The same would I here by sundrie other mo euident examples shewe were it not ouer long Certainely this is not to answer a Booke it is not learnedly to replie it is not directly to confute a Booke It is onely an ostentation of much reading it is a copying out of common places laid vp in Notebookes it is to render wordes for reasons and heapes of impertinent sentences of what so euer Writers for apte testimonies of the ancient Fathers Briefly it is not an orderly disproufe of the doctrine that the Church hath hitherto holden For who so wil consider of it with right iudgement shal finde our proufes to stande vnshaken and my former Booke to remaine a sufficient Confutatiō not only of the Apologie but also of the pretensed Defence it selfe That it maie truly be said there was a Confutation of the Defence made before the Defence it selfe was printed For if the pointes of my former Booke be wel weighed and considered of they wil to the learned seeme a sufficient answer to what so euer he bringeth For trial hereof I referre me to the answere whiche here I haue made vnto his View of Vntruthes The View of M. Ievvels Vntruthes Among whiche Vntruthes thou shalt finde few noted out of the Apologie so by him discharged but that in respect of my Confutation notwithstanding his Defence he maie seeme stil to stand chargeable no lesse then before If he can no better discharge him selfe of suche Vntruthes which he him selfe hath chosen out of the whole heape as the least and easiest for him to defende and in iustification of which he had greatest cōfidence it maie soone be iudged how vnlike it is that he shal be hable to discharge him selfe of those
others whiche he thought best to conceele and dissemble One thing good Reader it behoueth thee much to be warned of in case thou desire to stande an vpright vmpeere betwen M. Iewel and me Vpon what places so euer thou shalt happen to light in which he shal seeme to haue any good aduantage against me or against the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche passe not them ouer lightly weigh wel both our groundes examine both our allegations truste not to ought that is laid forth by either of vs presently but resort to the Bookes whence euery thing is taken Doing so thou shalt most certainely perceiue whether of vs both vseth more truth Doubtlesse in such places thou shalt seldō it were much so saie neuer find him to allege the wordes whereby he pretēdeth any colour of aduantage without some false sleight or other If thou desire to vnderstand this by some examples consider I praie thee what great a doo he maketh about the name of Vniuersal Bishop Vniuersal Bishop As he handleth that matter if a man wil beleeue him al thinges seeme to be plaine on his side Defence 120. The Coūcel of Carthage saith he decreed by expresse wordes that the Bishop of Rome should not be called the Vniuersal Bishop And behold Reader the confidēce that he hath in this cause which he sheweth with these wordes speaking vnto me This you saie is forged and falsified and is no part of that Conucel For indifferēt trial both of the truth ād of the falshed herein I besech you behold the very wordes of the Councel euen as they are alleged by your owne Doctour Gratian. These they are Prima Sedi◠Episcopus c. Let not the Bishoppe of any of the first Sees be called the Prince of Priestes Dist 99. Primae or the highest Priest or by any like name but onely the Bishoppe of the first See But let not the Bishoppe of Rome him selfe be called the Vniuersal Bishoppe c. Now M. Harding compare our wordes and the Councelles wordes together We saie none otherwise but as the Councel saith The Bishop of Rome him selfe ought not to be called the vniuersal Bishop Herein we doo neither adde nor minis he but reporte the wordes plainely as we finde them If you had lookte better on your booke and would haue tried this matter as you saie by your learning ye might wel haue reserued these vnciuile reproches of falshed to your selfe and haue spared your crying of shame vpō this Defender Here is muche a doo as thou feest Reader and al standeth vpon falshed as I said at the first in my Confutation We striue not for the name of Vniuersal Bishop neither hath the Pope Challenged that title Yet these menne haue neuer donne with Vniuersal Bishop The whole matter is soone answered These wordes vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Concil Carthag 3 Cap. 26. The Bishop of Rome ought not to be called the vniuersal Bishop these wordes I saie be not the wordes of the thirde Councel of Carthage nor in the Greeke nor in the Latine but the wordes of Gratian and they stande for the Summe of that parte of the distinction whiche there foloweth And thereof M. Iewel was not ignorant as it appeareth by his owne wordes in the same place Howbeit were it true that Gratian had ignorantly added them to the Councel as wordes of the Coūcel what learned man trusteth Gratian a man not greatly trusted in respect of sundrie his allegations when it is easy to see the Original For this I referre the Reader to the 39. Chapter of the third Booke of this Treatie fol. 184. b. Perusing that I haue answered to this point there thou shalt fully vnderstand how falsly M. Iewel hath dealte therein and how litle cause he had so to triumphe For neither hath the Councel any suche woordes at al nor speaketh it there so much as one worde of the Bishop of Rome nor hath Gratian put those wordes as a testimonie of the Councel but as the Summe of that parte of the 99. Distinction which immediatly foloweth As wel might M. Iewel haue said that those other wordes there placed vnde Pelagius secundus omnibus Episcopis had ben the wordes of that Councel He that knoweth Gratians manner of writing can not but either laugh at M. Iewelles ignorance or maruaile at his impudencie To proue that it is lawful for a man to marrie a wife being in holy Orders The example of Eupsychius he allegeth the example of one Eupsychius who was a Laie Gentleman of Caesaria the chiefe Citie in Cappadocia and in a time of persecution suffred Martyrdom soone after that he had benne married Now most falsly he corrupteth the reporter of the Storie and maketh this Eupsychius a Bishop that it might appeare to the ignorant that one had married a wife after he had benne made a Bishop which would haue serued our married Superintendentes purpose gaily For yet after so many yeres searche they can not bring vs forth so much as one cleare example of the ancient Churche that euer there was any Bishop or Priest married after that degree and holy Order taken With such vncleane conueiance their vncleane treacherie is defended Defence 176. Cassio li. 6. cap. 14. His wordes be these Cassiodorus writeth thus In illo tempore ferunt Martyrio vitam finisse Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum ducta nuper vxore dum adhuc quasi sponsus esse videretur At that time they saie Eupsychius the Bishoppe of Caesaria died in Martyrdome hauing married a wife a litle before being yet in manner a newe married man Beholde Reader the falshod of this man First contrarie to his custome elswhere he leaueth the Greeke fonteine where this Storie was First written and goeth to the riuer of the olde translation in many places not most exactly answering the Greeke And why did he so Forsooth bicause if he had alleged Sozomenus the Greeke writer his falshod had benne fowly bewraied For he nameth this Eupsychius expressely Eupsychius a laie-man by M. Iewels forgerie made a Bishop to proue the Mariages of Priestes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as much to saie Eupsychius one of the Lordes or one of the Nobilitie of the Citie of Caesaria in Cappadocia Then bicause the Tripartite Storie of Cassiodorus setting foorth hath not so expressely that he was a nobleman of Caesaria M. Iewel was so bolde as to falsifie the place and to putte in of his owne this woorde Episcopum to helpe his matter and so corrupting his authour maketh him to cal him Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum Eupsychius the Bishoppe of Caesaria Thus he taketh vpon him to make him a Bishoppe who was a Laie man as wel a Bishoppe as he him selfe is that it might appeare to the vnlearned that a Bisshoppe married a wife after he was Bisshoppe Fol. 302. 318. See what I haue said hereto in this Treatie where I answer his false stuffe touching
Priestes marriages Lib. 5. Cap. 1. Fol. 302. Speaking against the number of the seuen Sacramentes of the Churche Defence 213. Apocal. 5.8.7.1 to bring the Catholique Doctrine in contempte thus he saith As for the reasons that they of M. Hardinges side haue brought vs for proufe hereof they are too childish to be remembred For thus they saie The Booke in the Apocalyps hath seuen seales The seuen Angels there haue seuen Trumpettes Christ hath in his right hande seuen starres Christe walketh in the middes of seuen golden Candlestickes Zacha. 3. Exod. 37. Zacharie saw seuen eies vpon a stone There were seuen Candelstickes in the Tabernacle Ergo saie they there must needes be iuste seuen Sacramentes in the Churche of God If this were true In Compendio Theologiae wee might be somewhat ashamed of our Doctours I graunte Neither can this Reason seeme but weake and feeble But what if al this be false Then are our Doctours not touched then maie their reasons be thought substantial and M. Iewel a vaine Iangler that thus stuffeth his greate Booke with Lies Peruse the place Reader In CoÌ„pendio Theologia lib. 6. cap. 5. that by his quotation he directeth thee vnto and thou shalt finde him like him selfe as he is euery where a false Minister For Compendium Theologiae whiche he allegeth hath farre otherwise It saith not there muste needes be iuste seuen Sacramentes in the Churche bicause seuen Seales seuen Trumpettes seuen Starres seuen Candlestickes seuen Eies be thus spoken of in the Scripture but it saith expressely Sacramenta figurata sunt in septem Signaculis The Sacramentes were figured or foresignified in the seuen Seales in the seuen Starres c. That the number of those thinges is made a reason or cause of the number of the Sacramentes it is M. Iewels Lie it is not the saying of him that wrote Compendium Defence 361. 8 Augustine fouly and dangerously falfied by M. Ievvel Hauing taken vpon him to proue that the Doctours of the Canon Lawe haue taught the people that Fornication betwen Singlefolke is no sinne among a huge heape of sayinges taken out of writers of sundrie sortes whereof not so much as one affirmeth it he bringeth in this saying pretending it to be S. Augustine in Quaestion in Exod. quaest 20. Illa Fornicatio quam faciunt qui vxores non habent cum foeminis quae viros non habent an prohibita inueniri possit ignoro That kinde of Fornication which Single menne commit with single womenne whether it be forbidden or no I can not tel By this sentence as it is here set forth S. Augustine is set to schoole and made to confesse whiche he would neuer haue confessed whiles he liued that he could not tel whether Fornication that is committed betwene single folcke were forbidden or no whereby he should seeme to geue great libertie to single personnes to folow the filthy lustes of their flesh And here which is to be noted whereas the reste of the sentence is printed in the smal letter in which the Doctours testimonies be coÌ„monly set out these wordes in Latine Fornicatio an prohibita inueniri possit ignoro and these English wordes Fornication whether it be forbidden or no I can not tel are printed in a farre greater letter that they should readily appeare to the eie and be readde of al menne as if he were desirous as the Deuil him selfe is that al were persuaded that Fornication among single persons were no sinne Which doctrine there and in certaine other places of that Booke by sundrie colourable sayinges of Writers he seemeth to labour to persuade But the true saying of S. Augustine and the meaning of the same is farre otherwise For thus he saith not in Quaest in Exod. quaest 20. as the place by M. Iewel is falsly quoted but in Quaestionum super Exodum lib. 2. quaest 71. Sed si non omnis Fornicatio etiam Moechia dici potest vbi sit in Decalogo prohibita illa fornicatio quam faciunt viri qui vxores non habent cum foeminis quae maritos non habent vtrum inueniri possit ignoro As muche to saie But if it be so that al Fornication maie not be called also Moechia Aduouterie where that Fornication which menne commit that haue no wiues with womenne that haue no husbandes is forbidden in the Table of the ten Commaundementes whether it maie be founde or no I can not tel S. Augustine saith not simply he knew not whether simple Fornication were forbidden or no he knewe wel it was forbidden But if it were once denied that al Fornication were signified by the woorde and name of Moechia whiche properly is Aduouterie which worde is expressed in the ten Commaundementes the contrarie whereof he prooueth in that place very learnedly in this case and not otherwise he acknowlegeth him selfe not to knowe where the Fornication that is committed betwen single personnes maie be found forbidden where not generally but in Decalogo in the ten Commaundementes And this is the only point wherein S. Augustine confesseth his ignorance Howbeit in the same place he sheweth that vnder the name of Moechia al manner Fornication is comprised and that therefore in the tenne Commaundementes it is forbidden no lesse then Aduoutâ—riâ— as I haue at large declared in this Treatie Lib. 5. Cap. 15. where M. Iewels falsehood is further detected But what meane I to laie foorth places by M. Iewel falsified and corrupted If I woulde make profession thereof I ought to laie foorth his whole booke new printed For of such stuffe the whole consisteth One place bicause therein he thought to touche mine honestie I can not let passe Thus it is Consider Reader hovv far suche a false forger is to be trusted Hauing in my Confutation reprooued the Lady A.B. for turning these wordes out of Fulgentius formam serui and formam Dei asmuch to say the fourme of a feruaunt and the fourme of God into Manhed and Godhed wherby a false meaning is conueighed in against the true presence of Christes bodie in the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter least I should haue seemed ouer sharpe in rebuking a woman whereas in deede for a Doctor of Diuinitie to confute a woman I thought it no great Conquest after certaine other wordes of reprouse Confutation Fol. 41.2 thus I say Whether I maie without breache of courtesie charge her with so heinous a crime or no I doubte Perhappes as shee passeth the bondes of womanlie state in presuming to medle so farre in these perillouse matters c so maie I seeme to forgete courtesie thus roughly to blame so softe a creature Defence fol. 89. Nowe commeth me in this Master of Defence and for the loue of his good Ladie laieth busily about him driueth very fiercely at me though his strokes light not on me and like a kinde harted Louer saieth very much in her praise and not a litle to my dispraise that shee forsooth is a Ladie of
greeue the harte not onely of his Aduersarie but also of any other godly man with scorneful flowtes in thinges of greatest holinesse But Christian Reader we striue not for the Garland of that game we go not about to trie maisteries of suche witte or of humaine learning Our strife is about the Truthe The waie to shewe it and proue it whiche he him selfe by open Chalenge hath offred his Doctrine to be tried by is by laying forth the plaine Scriptures the examples of the Primitiue Church the testimonies of the General Councelles and ancient Fathers Of these who hath so great stoare saith a frende of his as M. Iewel Who euer sawe the margent of any Booke so beset with cotations as his Bookes are This were a great euidence of the Truthe on his side if the matter were alwaies tried by what so euer multitude of writers sayinges But what if the number of his testimonies be quite beside the purpose Seemeth he not then very shamelesse Is he not then farre to blame so to abuse the plaine and wel meaning Readers It shal be said perhappes in his excuse He seeth the negligence of menne he coÌ„sidered that fewe or none examine our writinges And therefore he thinketh he shal seeme to saie muche though in deede nothing be said that perteineth to the pointes presently handled And where a thing is to be done and the same for want of habilitie can not be done there it seemeth good policie to geue the assaie and to make shewe as if it could be donne or were donne It is knowen how flatterers make resemblance of frendship how Hypocrites geue forthe tokens of holinesse the intended Bankroute of good truste and credite the craking Coward of stoute courage Beggers oftentimes of welth Queanes of womanly honestie and chast demeanour Right so M. Iewel feeling him selfe destitute of the Truthe and impugning the Truthe and professing to deliuer vnto the worlde a new Truthe that is to saie a heape of olde Vntruthes busily set forth of late yeres by Luther Zuinglius Caluine Beza and the reste and by Wiklefe Hus Waldenses and others their predecessours in former times laboureth with al his witte and cunning to iustifie it calling it by the name of Goddes pure worde the Gospel and the sincere Truthe that whereas he is not hable to perfourme his intent in deed yet he might seeme to make it good with wordes Touching the life of the Clergie wel maie I confesse that M. Iewel hath somewhat to saie out of certaine writers how true I knowe not whereto I shal hardly be hable to make answer in ful defence of certaine personnes But as touching the Doctrine that the Catholike Churche holdeth at this daie and hath alwaies holden I auouche boldly as by sundrie our bookes it hath now ben clearely proued and they vnderstand so much that doo thoroughly examine the reasons authorities and proufes of both partes that he is not hable to bring so muche as one sentence out of any allowed writer that may not easily be refelled And bicause he knoweth that in pointes of Doctrine the force of Truth is clearely on our side he would faine traine me from matters of Doctrine wherein he hath smal hope of victorie or of acquitting him selfe with euen hande vnto matters of life and other bye thinges whereof what so euer be beleeued therein is no great danger touching our Saluation As for example what cracke is there made in the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche if the Nominales and the Reales if the Thomistes and Scotistes dissent about pointes Logical or Metaphysical or perhappes also about the paringes of some Scholastical pointes of Diuinitie What if some light beleeuing writers haue sadly and in ernest made mention of one Ioane a woman Pope deceiued by Martinus Polonus Martinus Polonus a man of smal credite who moued with olde wiues tales first committed that fable to writing What if some later writers haue vttered their phantasies whiche they dreamed thereof vpon occasion of an olde Marble Stone hauing in it a woman with a ladde standing by her engraued What if a fewe menne that helde with certaine euil Emperours whiche could not abide to be reuoked from their vnlawful lustes by the Pope for the time being haue written and reported il of a fewe Popes What if Iohannes Casa wrote some vnchaste Italian Sonettes and Rymes in his yewth though for filthinesse not comparable to suche as be extant of Bezaes making the Apostle of the Frenche Huguenotes What if Petrus Aloisius whom Paulus Tertius the Pope loued so tenderly were a vicious man What if Iohn Diazius the Spaniard were vnnaturally murdered by Alphonsus Diazius his brother that liued at Rome What if Luther wrote against the furious vproares of the Boures in Germanie when he sawe they were sure to be ouerthrowen by the Nobilitie there whom notwithstanding he had before by Thomas Muncer his scholer stirred to take weapons against their Lordes that he might laie some good colour vpon that he had il begonne What if some haue written though not without contradiction of others that Poison was ministred in the blessed Sacrament What if a Pope shewed him selfe cruel and without pitie in suffering Frances Dandulus the Venetians Ambassadour to lie vnder his table like a dogge whiles he was at diner What if Popes haue suffered great Princes and Monarkes to kisse their feete to holde their Stiroppes to leade their horses by the Bridle Wâ—at if Gregorie the seuenth otherwise called Hildebrande whom many graue Writers reporte to haue benne a man of great vertue and an excellent good gouernour of the Church be of some Writers of that age who flattered the Emperour then being that Popes mortal enemie accompted an il man What if Pope Alexander vsed Frederike the Emperour more proudly then became a man of his calling What if Constantines Donation can not be most sufficiently proued by record of antiquitie What if certaine Emperours and other Princes for great causes haue ben remoued froÌ„ their estates by the Popes authoritie What if the Gloser vpon Gratian and certaine other Canonistes haue immoderately magnified the Pope and to extol his power haue vsed some termes vndiscretely which neuerthelesse by fauorable interpretation maie be iustified What if the Popes at certaine times either for negligence cared not or for the wrechednesse of mannes il inclination could not or for great considerations would not vtterly purge the Citie of Rome of Courtesanes and Brodel houses What if the life of many Priestes Bishoppes Cardinals yea of some Popes also hath iustly deserued to be reproued Once to conclude what if al sortes of olde Bookes being raked out of dusty corners Schoolemen Summistes Glosers vaine Chroniclers Legendes writers of Dreames and Visions and suche Riffe raffe and menne for the purpose being set a worke to peruse them in the same be founde a fewe fonde pointes of Doctrine certaine loose Conclusions many seely Tales not worth the telling and some lewd faultes of
Religious personnes and others of the Clergie detected What if I saie al these and many other suche thinges were graunted of whiche we are persuaded that some are true the more parte is false muche is so written as it maie be defended no lesse then impugned What great inconuenience what preiudice to our Faith can ensue of al this Must the Catholike and ancient Doctrine of the Churche for these pointes be founde vntrue Must this now needes be made a good Argument Some of their liues were sinneful Ergo their Doctrine was false Truely these be the matters with the enlarging whereof his Defence hath risen to so huge a quantitie About whiche I haue not thought it needeful to bestow muche labour partly bicause in most of those pointes my Confutation of the Apologie yet standeth vnrefelled partly also bicause it liked me not to emploie good houres in so friuolous and vnfruitful a trauaile but chiefly bicause what so euer be said by M. Iewel touching these thinges either on the one side or on the other it importeth no disprouse of the Catholique doctrine in any Article whiche specially I haue taken in hande to mainteine Howbeit the thinges he bringeth in to deface the Churche must needes with wise menne in this case beare smal credite being considered vpon whose authorities and reportes they be auouched The Catholikes can not be greatly moued with suche thinges as are written in preiudice of the Churche either by them whose Bookes be of suspected faith and therefore condemned by the Church as Auentinus and Beno de vita Hildebrandi or haue ben corrupted of late yeres by the Lutheranes of Germanie as Vrspergensis In Indice librorum prohibitorum Antonius de Rosellis Polydorus Vergilius de Inuentoribus rerum Paschasius and others or who haue benne muche inclined to innouations in Religion and fauoured the Procedinges of Luther and his disciples as Erasmus Cornelius Agrippa Carion Lorichius Cassander and suche others or who be knowen to be manifest Heretiques and professed enemies of the Churche as Gaspar Hedio the Author of Paralipomena added to Vrspergensis Anselmus Rid Vergerius Sleidan Illyricus Fabritius Montanus Iacobus Andreae and many suche others al whiche M. Iewel allegeth against the Churche the Popes and the Clergie boldely as if they were Doctours of sufficient authoritie and sound credite against whom specially in these matters no exception might be taken As there is no cause why we shoulde greatly esteeme any thing spoken by these either against the manners of the Clergie or against the Ceremonies and customes of the Churche or against any parte of the Catholique Doctrine bicause in iudgement the bare worde of the Accuser or of him that otherwise is an il willer beareth smal credite against any man So touching the doctrine of Faith we feare not what so euer M. Iewel allegeth against vs out of the Schoolemenne Canonistes of al sortes Summistes and Glosers out of the Cardinalles and those other learned and graue menne appointed by Paulus Tertius to geue information of thinges in the state of the Churche to be refourmed and out of the Bisshoppes speaking their mindes freely in the late Councel of Trent For we are wel assured how so euer M. Iewel telleth their tales for them they helde and mainteined the doctrine which we professe in euery condition What so euer therefore he bringeth out of them bearing any sound of wordes against the Catholike Faith as very litle it is that to that effecte he can bring though with heapes of their sayinges he hath filled his great Volume the same is either by heate of Disputation or by waie of Obiection against the Truthe after the Scholastical manner for the better opening of the Truthe or by vehemencie of zele or perhappes by humaine ouersight vttered otherwise then by them is determined in their Conclusions whereof the taking of aduantage is vndue and ouer captious or by some sleight of M. Iewel falsified and corrupted or to saie the least by vntrue cōstruction wrested to a sense by the Authour neuer intended How so euer it be they shew them selues either very blinde of iudgement or very contentious wranglers or very vaine Ianglers that allege the wordes of any Writer against the Catholique doctrine whose whole course of life shewed him to be Catholique Which is tolde vs by S. Augustine as a moste certaine rule whereby to vnderstand mennes wordes in matter of Religion And therefore thus he crieth out vpon the blindenesse of such men among whom M. Iewel maie take him selfe annumbred that wil not vnderstād mens wordes by their dedes Aug. contra Epist Parme. li. 3. cap. 4. Incredibilis est coecitas hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tāta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorū factorūque patesceret vsqueadeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt cōmemorent sancta Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis Prophetarū quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarū The blindnesse of men is inoredible and certainely I wote not how I might make one beleeue that there were such frowardnesse in men onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so faste shut vp that they allege the testimonies of the holy Scripture and doo not behold in the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded Wherefore seing the farre greater parte of M. Iewels Defence consisteth of their sayinges heaped together of whom some were either them selues or their workes being vntruly set forth after their death of suspect faith some found to fauour heretikes some professed heretikes some contrariwise knowen by publike profession of their life to be perfite Catholikes making litle accompt what they of the one side saie as being of no credite specially in matter of Faith and not doubting but these of the other side meant wel and godly how so euer their wordes by M. Iewel be abused corrupted and misconstrued in consideratiō thereof good Reader I iudged a short Treatie might suffice in this case shorte I meane in comparison of that Huge Volume fraught with so much voide impertinent and superfluous stuffe Otherwise it is longer I am wel assured then he shal euer be hable aptly truly and directly to confute I saie not but he maie do eftsones as he hath twise already donne that is to saie gather together a huge number of sayinges out of al sortes of Writers and printing this Treatie withal sende vs forth an other great booke conteining much stuffe to litle purpose and not once touching the very precise pointes wherein he is charged with foule errours and falshed But to come directly to the pointes by me thoroughly refelled and with good proufes to iustifie the same keeping him selfe in from idle ranging abroad in matters not denied or otherwise impertinent this is that I affirme he shal neuer be hable to perfourme though he write againe as muche as
esse Papam esse coire in vnum possent c. Non enim credo aliquem esse adeo Impudentem Papae Assentatorem vt ei tribuere hoc velit vt nec errare nec in Interpretatione Sacrarum literarum hâ—llucinâ—ri possit We doubte not whether one man maie be a Pope and an Heretique both together For I beleeue there is none so shamelesse a flatterer of the Pope that wil saie * I saie it not read my wordes again as you saie M. Harding The Pope can neuer erre nor be deceiued in the exposition of the Scriptures This very saying M. Iewel bringeth in likewise against the Popes in the Defence pag 615. vnder the name of Alphonsus with the same Cotation And after that he hath rehersed the wordes thus he pipeth him selfe vp the triumphe against Hosius in despite of the Popes as if he had gotten of me a worthy and glorious conqueste Here M. Harding your owne principal Doctour Alphonsus calleth al them that mainteine your Doctrine and saie as you saie the shamelesse flatterers of the Pope But I saie on the other side here M. Iewel It pitieth me to see you so vaine a man and it is some paine also with litle profite for me stil to tel you one tale that al standeth vpon false grownde that you builde I had neede to be wel seene in Copia Verborum to be furnished with diuersitie of termes that I might by some change of speache ease the griefe of the Readers eares who must alwaies heare this muche at my hande that M. Iewel lyeth Looke Reader and peruse my woordes aboue rehersed and thou shalt see I saie not that the Pope can not erre nor be deceiued in the exposition of the Scriptures I saie he maie erre by personal errour in his owne priuate iudgement as a man and as a particular Doctor in his owne opinion But that he erreth or euer erred in publique iudgement in definitiue sentence and determinations touching matters of Faith that I vtterly denie VVho be they whoÌ„ AlphoÌ„sus in this case calleth Flatterers Alphonsus would them to be accompted flatterers who wil needes saie that the Pope can not erre or be deceiued in any case whiche neither I nor any learned Catholique man euer said You doo vs wrong therefore with your vncourteous language M. Iewel and belie Alphonsus faining him to call vs shamelesse Flatterers whiche he neuer meant It had benne your part to shewe where or when any Pope euer defined any false and erroneous doctrine to be receiued and beleeued of the Church Excepte ye shew vs this whiche we are sure ye can neuer shew ye maie spare such idle talke whereof ye haue great stoare whereby in many places of your bookes ye go about to proue that sundrie Popes haue erred Item in the place aforesaid Iewel That he is alvvaies vndoubtedly possessed of Gods holy Spiritâ— Confut. Fol. 285. a. Harding Not alwaies M. Iewel I saie it not I know and denie not but it maie wel be proued that some Popes haue in sundrie their Actes and Deedes lacked the direction of the Spirite of God as MeÌ„ne but not in Publique Decrees touching the necessarie doctrine of Faith In the place noted by your Cotation thus I saie Confut. 285. a. Sapient 8. Gods wisedom as the scripture faith disposeth al thinges sweetly and in one instant forseeth the ende and meanes that be necessary to the ende If he promise any man life euerlasting withal he geueth him grace also to doo good deedes whereby to obteine the same Whom he hath glorified saith S. Paule them he hath iustified Rom. 8. and called Matth. 16 Luc. 22. So whereas he hath by force of his praier made to the Father promised to Peter and for the saftie of the Church to euery Peters Successour that his faith shal not faile and therefore hath willed him to confirme his brethren that is to remoue al doubtes and errours froÌ„ them we are assured he wil geue him such witte diligence learning and vnderstanding as this Firmnesse and Infallibilitie of Faith and Confirming of Brethren requireth See further Reader what I saie in that place To this and to the rest said in that place M. Iewels chiefe maÌ„ner of answering Defence pag. 612. M. Iewel maketh answer in his pretensed Defence after his common manner with these graue and learned notes Sadly and Sagely and muche to the purpose Item Vntruthe fonde and childish c. Item O worthy graue reasons Neither answereth he the matter only by such marginal notes but also otherwise at ful where he furnisheth vs out two long leaues ful of trumperies pretended to be piked out of obscure and late writers Alphonsus de Castro M. Iewels doctours and the same for the more parte vtterly belied Beatus Rhenanus Legenda aurea Fasciculus rerum sciendarum Iohannes Stella Hulderikes forged Epistle Erasmus Annotations the disallowed Councel of Basil the Appendix or lable of the Councel of Constance whiche he fowly falsifieth reporting that of Iohn 22. whiche was said of Iohn 23. the vsurper also out of Vesellus the Glose vpon Gratian one Iohn of Paris Heruaeus Gerson Hostiensis the Canoniste Aeneas Syluius in that booke whiche he him selfe reuoked and recanted Petrarkes Rymes Lyra â—aldas Pâ—aâ—ina Iouerius Hermannus Gigas Iohannes Camoâ—ensis alleged by Cornelius Agrippa Iohn of Sarisburie Hermannus Rid an Heretique Cornelius Agrippa litle better in his booke of vanitie and of such litle worth late petie Doctours When he coÌ„meth to answer the pointe it selfe which standeth in the force of Christes praier made vnto the Father for the Firmnesse of S. Peters and his successours Faith thus he frameth his answer ful sadly I warrant you and like a godly Minister If the Pope should erre Defence pag. 614. saith he â—r be in heresie M. Ievv feareth not to vse his floutes speaking of Christ him selfe he might 〈…〉 in an Action of Couenant and require him to performe his promise Suche Flowtes and Scoffes becomme the Ennemies of Christes Churche and thereof this felowe serueth him selfe when learning faileth One great aduantage he hath ouer me he wil be sure to make moe lyes then I shall haue liste or thinke it labour worth to answere God be thanked he can not shewe any Pope that euer lacked the spirite of God in setting foorth any publike Decree touching any pointe of Faith to be holden of Christian people Item in the place aforesaid Iewel That at the Popes only hand vve must learne to knovv the vvil of God Confut. 324. Harding I saie not that we must learne to know the will of God at his hande onely That were a fonde doctrine For we may and doo learne our faith and what is the wil of God at the handes of others as of our Parentes our Frendes our Pastours our Curates our Ghostely Fathers our Preachers and our Bishoppes In the place by M. Iewel reprehended vpon occasion of the Apologie where the
man knoweth not what is meant by this words Apostata it may here be said that Apostata is he that forsaketh either the faith whiche in Baptisme he promised to keepe or that Rule and Order of Religious life whiche by solemne vow and open protestation at his entrie into Religion he promised to leade his life in Of the first sorte Iulianus that wicked Emperour and Porphyrius are examples So are the great Soldans Mammaluches and many of the great Turkes Ianizaires Of the second sorte be suche Moonkes and Friers and al other whatsoeuer Religious that foresake their habite willingly departe out of their Cloister and returne vnto the order of secular personnes Of whiche sorte there be mo seene abroad in the world at these daies then euer were in our Forefathers time If I cal these Apostates I cal them by that common name by whiche al the worlde hath euer called them And therefore the offence is very smal if it be any at al. Verely it is no greater then to cal them Theeues that for Theafte be hanged at Tyborn As touching the other terme Loose Loose whereas sithence the Apostles time vppon Deuotion many bereued them selues of their owne libertie and for Gods sake bounde them selues by solemne Vow to a straight and hard order of life and this sweete Gospel of yours setteth suche at libertie teacheth them to breake their promise made to God to caste of the yoke of Chastitie and to solace them selues with their Yokefellowes for so they cal their Strompettes to forsake the Vowe of Voluntarie Pouertie and to enioye al the worldlywelth they can procure and to shake of the yoke of al Obedience and to be vnder no rule but the rule of this Gospel that is to say to keepe what rule they liste this being so what great sinne was it to cal them Loose Speake we wel when of brute beastes breaking out of a pounde stable ropes fetters chaines or from the bridle we say they are brokeâ—â—â—ose 〈…〉 â—e accompâ—â—d il speache 〈◊〉 we say of Mâ—nâ—â—â— â—nd â—riers that â—oÌ„ne out or their Cloisters take Qâ—eanes vnder the name of holy wedlocke breake al vowes and al order that they be loose What bandes be stronger to binde man with al before God and in conscience then voluntarie Promises then Othes then solemne Vowes Who so euer maketh no conscience to breake these bandes if he be not a Loose man I know not whom we may cal a loose man And if such a one be a Loose man why may he not be so called specially that others may so the rather be fraid from the like contempte of God The founder of your Gospel Martin Luther was an Austen Frier neuerthelesse he married the waÌ„ton NuÌ„ne of Nymick in Saxonie Peter Martyr your great Rabbin was a Regular Chanon of the Order of S. Augustine He married at Strasburg Dame Katerine a loose Nunne Peter Martyr and dame Katerine the NuÌ„ne his vvife Oecolam padius Bucer a Dominican Pellican a FranciscaÌ„ Castalio a Carthusian Hooper Barlovv DounhaÌ„ Skory Barkley that ranne out of her Cloister at Metz in Lorraine Shal it be an vnciuile parte to cal them loose Apostates The Birgittine frier Oecolampadius the Patriarke of your felowes the Sacramentaries brake his vowe fled from his Religion married a wife saue the honour of true wedlock so did Bucer ablacke Frier so did Conrade Pellican a gray Frier so did Castalio a moonke Cartusian And for good manners sake shal we be afraid to cal them loose Apostates As for Mooncke Hooper the vsurper of Worceter and Gloueâ—ter Barlow of Chichester Frier or Chanon or bothe as I heare say Sir Downham of Westchester the Bonhome of Asheridge Frier Skory of Hereforde al married and the two olde good Fathers Frier Barkley of Bathe and Welles and Frier Couerdal Couerdal the Quondam of Exceter which after the death of their olde wiues haue of late yoked them selues againe to two yong wemen for their comforte in age forbearing to speake any worse worde of them bicause they be your very frendes may I not be so bolde as to cal them loose Apostates TOuching other bitter wordes gathered by you out of my writinges into your Rolle Huguenotes of France Gues of the lovv Countrie though your EuaÌ„gelical Brethern the Huguenotes of Fraunce and Scotland and the Gues of the low Countrie that haue robbed and spoiled so many Churches so many Monasteries NoÌ„neries and other places and haue burnt so many thousandes of faire bookes with the Libraries and coÌ„mitted so many horrible outrages I may not least I seme vncourteous cal them Theeues Churcherobbers the Deuils ministers Satans broode scholers of Satans schoole Caluinistes Satanistes Deuilish Rable Turkish Huguenotes c. For these be vnciuile and vnmannerly wordes saith M. Iewel and it is a great offence to vse them Though Frier Luther were taught of the Deuil in a night conference as he †See the Preface before my last Reioinder tovvard the ende confesseth him selfe to abandon the Masse and to worke al the spite he could against the most blessed Sacrifice of the Churche yet for ciuilities sake he may not be called the Nouice of the Deuil nor his Folowers the Ennemies of the Sacrifice neither may that be called the Deuils Schoole were the Deuil Luthers schoolemaster neuer so muche What Turkish wickednes hath proceeded out of this Doctrine who seeth not yet by M. Iewel it is beside good manner to cal it Turkish Doctrine The Professours of this doctrine and specially M. Iewel him selfe doo omitte no occasion yea they seeke al occasions they can to reuele and blase abroade vnto the worlde Chams broode the Defaultes and imperfections of the Catholiques without whiche menne liue not and chiefly if perhappes some Abuses haue creapte into some particular Churches they make muche of a litle folowing therein the facte of Cham Gen. 9. who reueled the nakednes of his Father Noe. This notwithstanding it is noted in M. Iewels Rolle of my sharpe woordes for a greuous offence that I cal such personnes Chams broode Who euer wrote so filthily and so bawdelike as Frier Bale Bale that Irishe Prelate of Oserie The harte can not be cleane whose eares can abide to heare such vncleane woordes Yet forsooth bicause he alwaies railed at the Catholike Churche and at the Clergie therof and wrought so mightily in the vineyard of their lorde that is to say in despite of the Pope and of al auncient order and religion it is skored vp by M. Iewel for a bitter speache that I called him Bawdy Bale geuing warning by that terme to al chaste hartes to refraine the reading of suche vnchast and filthy bookes That it was no great offence to cal M. Iewel him selfe a Lyer a Falsifier a Boaster a Scoffer AS for your selfe M. Iewel who euer was so vaine so foolish so insolent so cockish so mad as to make such a Chalenge to al learned men a liue And now how vnhable
charged and of whiche he hath not yet discharged him selfe The 4. Chapter AFter his heape of sharpe wordes partly forged by him selfe partly called out of my writinges and laid together as it were in a Table whiche seeme to him and to his brethren so muche irksome how muche their conscience is gilty he setteth forth in an other Table as it were certaine Vntruthes to the number of 31. whiche he founde among many moe noted against him in my first Reioinder and in my Confutation of the Apologie This Table he calleth M. Ievvels intent in setting forth the Vievv of his Vntruthes A Viewe of Vntruthes His intent and meaning is by the View of these fewe Vntruthes which he hath chosen out as the leaste among the whole number to purchase him selfe a Defence or at least waie some excuse for the reste For faine would he al menne to be persuaded that the reste noted by me and by others who haue confuted his errours and detected his manifold falshoode are of no greater weight then these are What and how great the reste are they maie see who liste to reade our bookes in which they be truly set forth How vnhable he is to iustifie them it shal appeare by that he hath said in the Viewe For if he be not hable to discharge him selfe of these one and thirty the leaste how shal he be hable to acquitte him self of a thousand and moe of greater weight scoared vp against him by those that haue written but vpoÌ„ fiue of his six and twentie Articles First 〈◊〉 layeth forth .15 Vntruthes which among many moe in my Râ—ioinder I noted against him out of his Replie to the first Article The first nyne he is driuen to acknowledge For he hath said nothing in their defence If he wil saie they be but smal Vntruthes and therefore not worthy of any thing to be said of them it may be replied they are too great to be vttered so neare together M. Ievvel is rife of Vntruthes in the very beginniÌ„g of his Replie For the first six Vntruthes be within the compasse of 12. lines in the beginning of his Replie It were strange that six great Vntruthes should be vttered within so fewe lines in the beginning of a booke For them that can not defende a matter but with great lyes it is the beste policie to beginne with smaller lyes For elles they should marre altogether This circumstance considered Vntruthes must needes seeme bothe many and great Briefly the whole fifteen Vntruthes noted out of the Replie be founde in his first Diuision that is to saie within lesse then thrise fifteen lines It were very il lucke if they should be proued al to be great and weightie Vntruthes in the first entrie of the booke and that within so litle space There was neuer any Writer so vaine or false The. 10. Vntruth Beno and VspergeÌ„sis parcially holding with the Emperour not to be beleeued against Gregorie the. 7. that sowed Vntruthes so thicke specially in the beginning of a Treatie The first nyne then being confessed to be Vntruthes vndischargeable let vs see how substancially he dischargeth him selfe of the six other It is reported saith he of Pope Hildebrand so he calleth Gregorie the seuenth that he wrought Necromancie and Sorcerie This noted I for an Vntruth saying it is not reported by any graue and true writer but by them that flattered the Emperour of that time To this he maketh a Replie This storie saith he is largely set out by Beno and Vrspergensis These be they whose witnesse I refused before as being the Emperours flatterers and bearing malice to the Pope and therfore ouer parcial to beare credite in that case Gregorie the seuenth How farre this worthy man Gregorie the seuenth was from exercising Necromancie or Sorcerie and from other vices it is largely declared by the best writers of stories of that age namely by Marianus Scotus by Lambertus Schafuaburgensis and Leo Hostiensis and specially by Otho Frisingensis and of late by Platina and Onuphrius Panuinus Furthermore Beno can not beare great credite with vs as he that is condemned by Ecclesiastical censure Vrspergensis set out by MelanchthoÌ„ only The. 11. Vntruth As for Vrspergensis he is worthily suspected to be corrupted by your felowes of Germanie among whom he was set out in printe by Philip MelanchthoÌ„ and not els Item Henrie the Emperour was poisoned in the Communion breade saith M. Iewel Vntruthe say I He was not poisoned but died otherwise For proufe he replieth and allegeth Vrspergensis Likewise Auentinus and besides Baptista Ignatius the writer of Supplementum Chronicorum Rauisius Textor the GraÌ„marian and Carion writers of our time and some of them of litle credite Neither in suche a case maketh the nuÌ„ber of writers any ArgumeÌ„t of truthe For the afterwriters being deceiued by the Vntruthe of the first writer be they neuer so many in number caÌ„not make true Henrie of Luxemburg hovv he dyed Lib. 8. that whiche was vntruly reported at the first Touching the Death of this Emperour who was Henrie of Luxemburg Paulus Aemylius a graue and a learned man who hath examined this mater to the vttermost writeth that he died of a sickenes whiche he fel into at Bonconuento in the territorie of Siena in Tuskane being come thither from Pisa The same writeth * In scholijs in Platinam Onophrius That he should be poisoned in receiuing the Sacrament by meanes of a Dominican Frier Cornelius Cornepolita seemeth to esteme it for a fable or to make the best of it for a matter of a heare saie By that which * In Chronographia The .12 Vntruth Victors Death Nauclerus writeth therof it appeareth to be no better then a fained tale Item Pope victor was poisoned in the Chalice saith M. Iewel This noted I for an Vntruth and said he died otherwise To this he replieth and for his saying allegeth Martinus Polonus that vaine fabler the first author of the fabulous Popedom of Pope Ioan the woman he nameth certaine other of our age some being as very enemies to the Catholike Church as he him selfe is namely Anselmus Rid Anselmus Rid. a ProtestaÌ„t of Berna whom we beleue in such a mater no more then we beleue M. Iewel For such menne be very ready to set out in bookes any thing wherby the estimatioÌ„ of our diuine Mysteries may be impaired in the iudgement of light heads be it neuer so vntrue Concerning Pope Victors death VinceÌ„tius Vincentius BellouaceÌ„ as good an Author as Martinus Polonus and a man of muche greater learning writeth that he died of a Dysenterie and so Platina reciteth In these three Vntruthes M. Iewel hath some colour of a defence bicause the writers of the Stories doo varie And he liketh that report best that is most fabulous and vaine and teÌ„deth to the coÌ„tempt of the Pope and of the blessed Sacrament Suche stuffe is precious in his sight Thus it is cleare that he
vndoubted To this one argument M. Iewel you shal neuer be hable to answere truely and directly You adde yet farther Christe wil be euermore with his Churche yea though the whole Churche of Rome conspire against him It is true M. Iewel And therefore this being a matter impossible that the whole Churche of Rome should be hable to deface Christes Gospel or to defeate Christ of his promise it must needes folow that where you say the Pope hath blinded the whole worlde you haue said most vntruly and haue auouched that thing which by your owne confession in this place was not possible to be done Againe seing that though the whole Churche of Rome conspired against Christe yet Christe wil be euermore with his Churche and these many hundred yeres Christ hath had no other Churche then the Churche of Rome for the Pope you say hath blinded the whole worlde and D. Luther began to publish the Gospel a general darkenesse going before it must needes folowe that the same Church of Rome was the true Church of Christ that the said Church neuer coÌ„spired against Christ that the Pope neuer blinded nor was euer hable to blinde the whole worlde briefely that the same whiche you cal blindnesse was good sight and that which you cal darkenesse was cleare light Verely either so must it be or Christes promise must faile Of the which promise of Christ and of a number of other sayinges in the Psalmes in the Prophetes and in the Gospel affirming and confirming the same it hath ben largely and sufficiently treated in the foresaid Treatise intituled The Fortresse of our first Faith annexed to the Historie of venerable Bede of late translated into Englishe If you M. Iewel or any of your fellowes wil auoide this argument that proueth a knowen continuance of Christes Church answer to the first parte of that booke If you can not auoide that one Argument your newe doctrine is plainely proued to be false and heretical and the Faith of our Forefathers is plainely proued to be the Faith of the true and onely Catholike Churche of Christe in earth You pretende as if ye had aduantage for that I spake but of a thousand yeres For thus you inferre Iewel ibidem Pag. 32. But vvhy do you so much abate your reckening VVhy make you not vp your ful accompte of fifteene hundred three skore and sixe yeres as ye vvere vvont to doo Ye haue here liberally and of your selfe quite striken of fiue hundred three skore and sixe yeres Harding That we haue not striken of the first fiue hundred yeres as M. Iewel cauilleth You say vntruly M. Iewel The. 8. Chapt. I haue not striken of the first fiue hundred yeres c. But I and others doo God be praised defende and mainteine the Catholique Faithe no lesse by the Doctours and witnesses of the first fiue hundred yeres then by the Doctours and Witnesses of these last thousand yeres Yea Sir it is wel knowen to them that haue perused bothe our labours that you allege moe writers of these later ages by ten to one then either we doo of the same or your selfe doo of the first fiue hundred yeres It is wel knowen our writinges are confirmed with the authoritie of the Fathers of the firste fiue hundred yeres We allege very seldome the writers of these later ages condescending herein to your infirmities whiche through weakenes of Faith doo reiecte these later Fathers as too yonge and require to be persuaded onely by the Doctours and Councelles of the first sixe hundred yeres And herein we doo willingly omitte the greate aduantage whiche we might haue if we should presse you with the Writers of these later ages This is wel knowen M. Iewel to al that knowe any thing in matters of these common controuersies We haue Gods holy name be blessed largely and aboundantly prooued the Reall Presence the Sacrifice of the Masse the Popes Primacie the vse of Images the Confession of sinnes to the Prieste the Inuocation of Saintes the Praying for the dead the Churche seruice in the two learned tongues Greeke and Latine and such other matters by you nowe brought into Controuersie we haue sufficiently prooued them I saye by the Doctours and Councels of the first sixe hundred yeres wittingly and willingly a very fewe places excepted absteining from the Writers of these last thousand yeres not bicause we refuse them or contemne them but bicause ye refuse them that we might seeme to vse the better meanes to persuade you whose couersion we seeke and labour for You say therefore vntruly that I haue liberally of my selfe quite striken of fiue hundred yeres c. The cause why I named but these last thousand yeres your selfe I am sure are not ignorant of But so it liked you to dallye and to answer a most earnest and important question with trifling toyes cauilles and wranglinges It was your exception M. Iewel and prescription of the first sixe hundred yeres It was your lewde contempte of these later ages It was your blasphemous assertion condemning the Churche of Christe so many hundred yeres of Idolatrie superstition and palpable darckenes which made me to chalenge you with Christes promise for the Continuance of his Churche these last thousand yeres If you denie this to be your opinion of the last thousand yeres beside your prescription insinuating no lesse of the nine hundred beside your former wordes of Luthers first publishing of the Gospel for so you terme your wicked Heresies your owne wordes in this place doo signifie no lesse For thus you saie euen in this page Iewel Verely in the iudgement of the Godly fiue hundred of those first yeres are more vvorthe then the vvhole thousand yeres that folovved aftervvarde Harding This comparison is odious The commendatioÌ„ of the first fiue hundred yeres in comparison of the later ages and litle becommeth a ChristiaÌ„ maÌ„ If you speake of learning and vertue though the comparison be odious yet is it more tolerable For learning and vertue may seeme to haue excelled more in those former ages then in these later specially vertue and holines of life when as the bloude that Chriâ—â— shed for redemption of the worlde seemed to mennâ—â— hartes yet fresh and warme as in a place S. Augustine writeth And therefore those tymes brought foorth moe Martyrs As touching learning it muste also be confessed that moe Doctours in both tongues then excelled The north partes of the world coÌ„uerted in these later ages This without preiudice to the learned Bishoppes and Godly people of Christendom in so longe a time afterwarde might perhappes to the commendation of Antiquitie be graunted Howbeit it is not vnknowen to the learned that in these later thousand yeres the Northe partes of the worlde being many large and sauage Countries haue benne brought to the faith of Christe many Bishoppes and Monkes of excellent learning and of great perfection of life haue flourished many Martyrs also haue suffred as al histories and Chronographies doo
to the General Councelles thinke good to make menne beleue that the General Councels haue yeelded to you Pride and humilitie maketh a cleare difference betwen the citie of God and the citie of the Deuil Iewel Pag. 43. VVhere you saie that Bishoppes onely haue Sentence definitiue in the Councel ye seeme vvillingly and vvithout cause to reporte vntruthe VVheÌ„ he vvrote that he vvas neither Pius secundus nor Pope but a priuate maÌ„ Aeneas Syluius de gestis CoÌ„cilij ConstaÌ„t lib. 1. False traÌ„slatioÌ„ Apparet in this place signifieth not it is plaine but it appeareth IohaÌ„ Gerson Quae veritates credendae Corol. 4. The 13. Chapt. For Pius Secundus * being him selfe a Pope vvould haue tolde you the contrarie These be his vvordes Apparet alios quam Episcopos in Concilijs habuisse vocem decidentem * It is plaine that certaine others beside Bishoppes had voice definitiue in the Councelles Likevvise Iohn Gerson Etiam ad laicos hoc potest extendi plus aliquando quà m ad multos Clericorum This priuiledge of geuing sentence in Councel maie be extended euen vnto the laie sorte yea and that oftentimes better then vnto many priestes Harding That in Councelles Bishoppes onely haue sentence definitiue the obiections of Pius 2. and Gerson answered Neither willingly nor without cause nor vntruth Not willingly For I came to speake of this point by occasion of your Apologie complaning that you had no audience in the General Councel at Trente Not without cause For that being true as I shal anone proue it to be true that onâ—ly Bishoppes haue Sentence definitiue in the Councel ye being no Bishoppes at al for geuing SenteÌ„ce definitiue there is no place for you which greueth you ful sore For faine would ye once sitte in General CouÌ„cel as the Masters and Superintendentes of al Christendome Not Vntruthe For it is euident by the auncient practise of the primitiue Churche that in al Councelles Only Bishops at Councels subscribe definitiuely only Bishoppes haue subscribed definitiuely The tenour of al General Councelles yet extant is a cleare witnesse hereof to al that can or wil peruse them And though a Negatiue be harde to proue yet this Negatiue that none but Bishoppes should subscribe in Councelles is plainely proued in the Auncient great General Councel of Châ—â—â—don Where it is openly â—â—ouchâ—d first of the Bishopâ—â— them selues Act. 1. Pag. 745. thus â— Synodus Episcoporum est non Cleriâ—â—â— A Synode or Councel is of Bishoppes not of the inâ—â—riour Clergie or of Priestes as alwaies you turne the worde Then of one Martinus Presbyter a Priest thus Non est meum subscribere bid Pag. 775. EpiscoporuÌ„ tantùm est It is not my part to subscribe It belongeth only to Bishoppes But M. Iewel wil proue the contrarie and that others beside Bishoppes had sentence definitiue But by whom Forsoth by Aeneas Syluius and Iohn Gerson both very late writers and not yet of two hundred yeres auncientie Such newe litle worth stuffe he that requireth vs to proue al thinges by the writers of the first 600. yeres bringeth against the Auncient practise of the primitiue Churche And yet he belieth his Authours most shamâ—lesly See Reader hovv many vntrue partes Mâ—l plaieth in one pore litle sentence For first he saith that Pius Secundus being him selfe a Pope telleth vs the contrarie whiche is vtterly false For when he wrote that booke he was Aeneas Syluius Piccolomineus not Pius Secundus He was then â— priuate man not a Pope And being Pope he recanted that hâ— had done in the pretensed Councel of Basile and that he had written thereof and certaine other errours which before he had published Bulla recantationis Pij Papa 2. Tom. 4. Concil pag. 503. and written to the derogation of the See Apostolike and of the Clergie Neither was this tolde by Aeneas Syluius as a thing of his owne iudgement and of his owne vtterance but as a thing in that Synode said by Cardinalis Arelatensis whose priuatâ— opinion that was and the same vttered he with that libertie which is graunted to al menne admitted to Councels in whiche they are permitted freely to speake what they thinke And therefore in debating of dâ—ubteful matters they speake thinges contrarie one against an other And this saying of the Cardinal of Arles was in that CouÌ„cel controlled and gainesaid by other menne of great lerning and iudgement as by Panormitanus Ludouicus and others there mentioned So that it is no better auctoritie then a thing that is spoken in heate of disputation against the truth for the better discussion of the truth In alleging then your Doctor you haue committed fiue vntruthes First he neuer wrote any suche booke as you name to witte De Gestis Concilij ConstaÌ„tiensis but de Gestis Concilij Basiliensis Secondly when he wrote it Vide Aene Syl. de Gestis CoÌ„cil Basil li. 1. pa. 27 he was not Pius Secundus Pope as you saie he was but Aeneas Syluius Piccolomineus a priuate man Thirdly it is not the saying of Aeneas him selfe but of the Cardinal of Arles Fourthly you haue added of your owne to his sentence these wordes in Concilijs which are not in your Author Neither spake he that of other Councelles then of the Apostles Councel meÌ„cioned in the Actes Fifthly you corrupte your Doctor by false translation For Apparet doth not alwaies signifie it is plaine as you haue translated it but it seemeth or appeareth And many thinges appeare that be not plaine nor true as this it selfe is one Of a thing that is plaine to saie it appeareth were preiudicial to the truth Whether these vntrue partes haue proceded of Rhetorical policie called otherwise lying for aduantage to make the most of your Author you could or of mere ignorance for that you neuer saw the place your selfe but trusted other mennes vntrue eies therein or els of a certaine dispositioÌ„ proper to your humour that nothing can passe your fingers without some false sleight or other I leaue it to be considered of others Geâ—son impudently be lyed and falsified by M. Iewel As for Iohn Gerson you deale as falsly with him as with Aeneas Syluius and to speake plainely though as you would haue it sâ—me vncourteously you vtterly belie him In the place by you allege Gerson speaking of verities that are so of necessitie to be beleeued Gerson Quae veritates credendae Corâ—llario 4 that otherwise a man can not be saued sheweth that one man is bounde vnder paine of heresie to holde some pointes with certaine and expresse faith and thereof in no wise to doubt whereof an other man for a time without blame maie be in doubte This doth he there declare by a threefolde example As a diuine saith he or a professour of diuinitie exercised in the holy scriptures is bound expressely to holde and not to doubte at al of many thinges of which a simple and an vnlearned man being required might with
receiued of the Apostles Howe muche more stronger is that we saie now we folowe that which the Custome of the Church hath euermore holden whiche al this reasoning to and fro hath not ben able to plucke out of mens hartes and last of al which a ful General Councel hath confirmed So highly esteemed S. Augustine those things August li. 2. de Baptisme cap. 9. which M. Iewel of al other maketh lest accompt of And againe he saieth Concilia posteriora prioribus apud posterâ—s praepâ—nuntur Later CouÌ„cels preferred before the former for what cause The posteritie preferreth the Later Councelles before the Former Not as though the later should be contrarie to the former but bicause in the later CouÌ„cels the Church is alwaies better instructed through the contradictions of heretikes by occasion whereof matters are more exactely searched discussed and more clearely opened Like as the flint stoanes being knokte harde together fier flieth out and corne the more ye fifte it the purer it is tried so truthe by our aduersaries Contradictions is beaten out and doubteful pointes by long discussion and search are made plaine and cleare Therefore againe he saith Ibidem .li. 2. cap. 3. Ipsa plenaria Concilia saepe priora posterioribus emendantur cúm aliquo experimento rerum aperitur quod clausum erat cognoscitur quod latebat The very former general Councells are oftentimes corrected by the later Councells when as by some trial of maâ—â—er that thing is opened whiche before was close shut vp and that is knowen whiche before laie hid Yeâ— and this is the chiefe and best fruite The benefit and fruite of heresies August in Psal 54. super versum Diuisi sunt prae ira c. that heresies bring vnto the Churche as the same S. Augustine otherwhere declareth where he saith The matter of the blessed Trinitie was neuer wel discussed vntil the Arianâ— barked against it The Sacrament of Penaunce was neuer throughly handled vntil the Nouatians beganne to withstande it Neither the cause of Baptisme was wel discussed vntil the rebaptizing Donatistes arose and troubled the Churche Thus M. Iewel if you geue eare vnto S. Augustine whose example you seeme to claime by you shal learne of him not to refuse and renounce the authoritie of General Councels but to obey them and to yeeld dew reuerence vnto them yea though they be later and as you cal them new Truth draue M. Iewel to iustifie al our Doctrine wherein he dissenteth from vs. The 21. Chap. This oddes therefore remaineth betwen you and vs that our doctrine yea euery pointe thereof in cotrouersie now is by your owne confession approued by the later General Councelles and so we defende no doctrine of our owne nor mainteine any prophane Nouelties of our owne deuise but we folowe Saluberrimam authoritatem the most holesome and sounde authoritie as S. Augustine termeth it of General Councels that is to saie we folowe the voice of the whole bodie of Christes Churche most truely represented in Councelles the voice of Christes spouse yea the voice of Christe him selfe speaking to vs by his Churche and so speaking that he willeth him whiche heareth not the Churche to be accompted for a Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publicane Contrariewise your Doctrine M. Iewel is not only not authorized in General Councelles but also is clearely condemned by the same as for example that one maie serue in steede of many the General Councel of Laterane condemneth your Sacramentarie heresie Yet we thanke not you but the truthe that you haue this muche confessed for vs. And as S. Augustine said of the Donatistes so we saie most truely of you Vt illa omnia vel loquendo vel legendo pro causa nostra promerent atque propalarent Aug. contra Donatist post collat ca. 34. veritas eos torsit non charitas inuitauit That the Donatistes shoulde vtter and bring forthe either by talke or by allegation out of a booke al those thinges for behoofe of our matter the truth forced them it was not any charitie that inuited them The truthe I saie M. Iewel not any loue you beare to our cause forced you to confesse that there is none of our errours so you terme sundry weightie pointes of the Catholike Faith that by some of the late Councelles hath not benne confirmed We take that you geue vs right gladly in asmuch as it declareth you to be conuinced by witnesse of your owne mouthe For if the pointes of Faith and Religion wherein ye dissent from vs be approued and confirmed by authoritie of the Churche in General Councelles who seeth not what a good staffe we haue to leane vnto And who is that Christian man whiche wil not humbly beleue the same The Thirde Booke conteineth a Detection of certaine Lies Cauilles Sclaunders c. vttered by M. Iewel in the second parte of his pretensed Defence Iewel Pag. 88. VVhere ye fantasie that the Bodie of Christe in the Sacramente hath in it selfe neither Fourme nor Proportion nor Limitation of place nor Distinction of partes S. Augustine telleth you Spatia locorum tolle c. Take awaie from Bodies Limitation of place and the Bodies wil be no where Augu. ad DardanuÌ„ epist 57. And bicause they be nowhere they wil be nothing Take awaie from Bodies the qualities of Bodies there wil be no place for them to be in and therefore the same Bodies muste needes be no Bodies at al. Hereof vve maie conclude that the Bodie of Christe vvhich you haue imagined to be contiened grosly and carnally in the Sacrament for as much as by your ovvne confession it hath neither Qualitie nor Quantitie nor Fourme nor place nor proportiâ—â— of Bodie therefore by S. Augustines doctrine it is no Bodie Harding Answer to the Obiection made out of S. Augustine to Dardanus against the real presence of Christes Bodie in the Blessed Sacrament The. 1. Chapt. THE great confidence you haue in S. Augustines two sayinges in his 57. Epistle to Dardanus may much better serue your turne to skirmish with Brentius a Master of youres Brentius the autor of the heresie of the Vbi quetaries and a graund Captaine emong the Lutherans who spareth not by publique write to teache the world that Christes Humanitie is euerie where as his Diuinitie is then against the Catholique doctrine of Christes Bodily presence in the Blessed Sacrament wherein no suche errour is allowed that Christes humanitie should be euery where with his Godhead but it is auouched that Christe by his omnipotent power doth make his Bodie present in as many places as the Blessed Sacrament is duely Natural qualities suspeÌ„ded from Bodies by Goddes special povver Exod. 3. Daniel 3. Exod. 14. and rightly consecrated You are not ignorant M. Iewel but that you know that God by his special power hath suspended from diuers sortes of Bodies sundrie natural Qualities as he did suspende the action of burning from the Fire as wel in the
the outward gouernment the being of a Head is common to Christe with others For in this respecte certaine others maie be called Headdes of the Church as in Amos the prophete the great states be called the Heades of the people So the Scripture speaketh of King Saul When thou were a litle one in thine owne eyes thou wast made Head emong the tribes of Israel So Dauid saith of him selfe he hath made me Head of Nations Amos. 6. 1. Reg. 15. Psal 17. Headship in respect of gouernement diuers in Christ and in menne * Left out by M. Ievvel In this sense the name of Head is attributed to princes and gouernours And yet not altogether so as to Christ First forasmuche as Christe is Head of al those that perteine to the Churche according to euery place euery time and euery state But menne are called Heades in regard of certaine special places as Bishoppes be called heades of their Churches Or in respect of a determinat time as the Pope is Head of the whole Church during the time of that calling And according to a determinate state euen so as menne be in the state of this mortal life for further stretcheth not this humanie Headship Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe an other waie bicause Christe is Head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie * Menne be called Headdes in asmuch as they be in steed of Christe and vnder Christe after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians 2. Cor. 2. For if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe and in an other place we are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe 2. Cor. 5. euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in fewe according to inward influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is Head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christe and in steede of Christe is Head of the same These be my wordes there M. Iewel To whiche bicause you had nothing to saie you answer by your accustomed arte of mangling hewing awaie what liked you not by falsifying them and by putting in your owne selfe wordes in place of myne that teache the truthe And at length you fal to skoffing at my Logique making fonde and peeuish Argumentes of your owne forging bearing the simple reader in hande they are mine whiche God knoweth I neuer made nor no wise man elles For they are suche as of al that peruse your writinges you maie be knowen by them as a Begger is by his patched cloke or rather as a Vise is knowen by his Babul The greatest thing you saie is that al is myne owne tale that I tel and that I bring in no Scripture nor Doctour To this I answere Were it true that you saie as my Booke it selfe prooueth it false yet in this case my Yea hytherto is as good as your Nay and better too bicause it standeth with the vniforme Doctrine of the Churche Be it I allege no Authoritie of Scripture or Doctour to prooue the Pope Head bicause I am not yet comme to the place where I minde to prooue it Yet my case standeth as good as youres that bring neither Scripture nor Doctour to the contrarie If it had pleased you ye might haue founde bothe Doctours and Scriptures more The Rock of the Churche then you would gladly heare of in M. D. Sanders booke entitled the Rocke of the Church written for that behalfe and in M. Sapletons Returne written against your so many grosse Vntruthes and errours The Returne of Vntruths You crake muche of your great skil in Logique in comparison of other mennes ignorance searche out I praie you emong your rules of Logique whether Distinctio multiplicis in quaestione positi the Distinction of a worde that hath diuers significations placed in a controuersie ought not to goe before the disputation of the controuersie If it ought then haue I done rightly and orderly in that I made a Distinction of the terme Head before I entred to proue the Pope to be Head and you ignorantly and disorderly in calling vppon me to doo two thinges together against al good order of nature reason and learning or to doo the later before I had ended the former Testimonies auouching the Pope to be head of the Churche Peter the chiefe mēber of the Churche Gregor li. 4. epis 38. Now bicause you be so hasty to haue some Doctour to proue that the Pope is Head somewhat to satisfie your hasty humour the Authoritie of S. Gregorie afterwarde alleged by your selfe maie suffice any wise man who calleth S. Peter the chiefe member of the Church which the Pope succeding in that right of Peter is al one with that we saie the Pope is Head in gouernment vnder Christe What difference I praie you can your wisedome put betwixte the chiefe member and a Head vnder an other or in the steede of an other Chrysost in Matth. homil 55. It is your happe alwaie to allege Doctours to your owne Confusion S. Chrysostome also witnesseth that Peter was such a Head saying of him Ecclesia Pastor Caput Piscator homo The fisherman by whom he meaneth Peter is the shepehearde and head of the Churche Againe he saith in an other place Quod si quis percontaretur Chrysost in Ioan. Hom. 87. quo modo Iacobus Sedem Hierosolymis acceperit responderem hunc totius orbis magistrum praeposuisse In case any man would demaunde of me this question how Iames came to haue the See at Ierusalem I would answere him that this Peter the Maister of the whole worlde made him Bishop there Lo Peter Maister of the vvhole vvorlde he calleth Peter the Maister of the whole worlde by whiche worde what elles signifieth he but that he was the Head touching spiritual gouernment of the whole worlde He saith furthermore and that most plainely in an other place Ieremiam Genti vni pater Chrysost Hom. 55. in Matth. hunc autem vniuerso terrarum orbi praeposuit God the Father made Ieremie the Head and Gouernour ouer one nation onely that was the nation of the Iewes but as for this man Peter made hed of the vvhole vvorlde by Christ to wit Peter Christe made him Head and Gouernour ouer the whole worlde Are you contented now Verely I haue folowed your minde willingly And if ye require mo the like testimonies of me I remitte you to the Answer Ansvver I made vnto your Chalenge Art 4. fol. 9. b. c. where you shal finde that maie satisfie any learned man touching this pointe Neither are you hable to auoide the plaine force of those testimonies for al the great a doo you haue made in your huge Replie Iewel Pag. 94. Ye saie S. Paule saith If I forgaue any thing for your sakes 2. Cor. 2. I forgaue it in the personne
of the matter laie in any one of them But for that natural reason should partely declare to the ignorant who are not hable to conceiue deeper Argumentes that the Order whiche our Sauiour leafte in his Churche the same to be ruled by one general Head doth so sensibly sticke in euery mannes conceite that vnderstandeth the force of any good natural reason that you or any of your felowes with any heapes of impertinent sentences of al sortes of Writers with whiche you fournish vs out bookes of great bulke shal neuer be hable to prooue the contrarie Disorder not 〈◊〉 reasons M. Iewel take them as my selfe haue sette 〈…〉 marke what force they are of when they be linked in one Then ouerthrowe them if you can I am assured you can not The other three reasons to the which you say ye answered in your Replie are so by M. Stapleton returned vpon you againe and your whole answere reprooued that the worlde now seeth what smal worship ye haue wonne thereby I would aduise you to beginne againe and labour for a more sufficient answere elles you may be sure that menne wel geue you ouer for one that promiseth much and perfourmeth nothing Iewel Pag. 100. I graunt Dissension and quarelles be the sooner ended vvhen al thinges be put ouer to one man so that the same man maie liue for euer and stil continue in one minde and neuer alter Harding M. Iewel alloweth no one man to be ruler except he may liue for euer and continue in one minde which is fonde Liue for euer what a blinde answere is this The .11 Chapt. I praie you Sir did Moyses when he had the gouernement of the people of Israel make an ende of no Dissensions and quarelles emong them I weene you wil say yeas And yet he liued not emonge them for euer pardy Did not Iosue so Did not Samuel Did not Dauid Did not Salomon and others Yet I trowe you wil not say they liued for euer Doth not euery Prince dailie within his owne Realme so Euery Bisshop within his owne Diocese the Archebishop within his owne Prouince And yet ye knowe they liue not for euer Heard euer any man a fonder answere made then this The first foure General Councelles ended diuers matters of contention and yet they that were there liued not for euer For very shame cal backe this vnsauery answere againe or at least put it out of your booke at your nexte Impression if the first finde good vtterance and lye not vpon you handes Iewel Ibidem And stil continevv in one minde and neuer alter Harding That is the very cause perhappes why Archeheretiques can make an ende of no Dissension bicause their mindes doo daily 2. Tim. 3. and hourely alter as S. Paule saieth of certaine curious wemenne that were alwaies learning alwaies talking and babling of Scripture and neuer drawing to any good ende neuer atteining to the knowledge of truthe Princes bounde by M. Ievvel to continue stil in one minde You haue bounde Kinges and Princes very hard to continew stil in one minde and neuer to alter so that if one haue cause to warre against the other after warre once entred they may neuer intreate of peace They muste continew stil in one minde and neuer alter They muste keepe so precise and so holesome a diet that they maie liue for euer If they make any statute that is good and necessarie to be kepte for some one time perhappes for the space of v. or vj. yeres afterwarde when the Continuance of suche statutes shal be founde to breede greate disorder and inconuenience to the Realme it shal not be lawful for them to repeale them bicause M. Iewel hath bounde them to continew in the minde they were and neuer to alter For if they once alter how so euer and wherein so euer it be dissensions and quarelles saith he can not by them be appeased and ended and therefore good gouernment shal faile Iewel Pag. 100. But oftentimes one Pope is founde contrarie to an other Harding Answere to the contrarities in certaine Popes reprehended by M. Iewel and to the violating of Pope Formosus dead Carkasse c. Not so ofte as one king is founde contrarie to an other The .12 Chapt. Read the Stories you shal find it true But Lorde what a doo ye make here about the Contrarieties of certaine Popes and yet you shal neuer finde one Pope contrarie to an other in any article of our Faith as heauy a Maister as you are vnto them But why doo you not cal to minde what varietie of opinions ye haue had emong your selues fith ye brought your Gospel first into the Realme Remember within so shorte a time how many sortes of Communions haue benne seene how many sectes haue risen emong your selues How farre the Puritanes who haue wel nigh tried out the Quintessence of your Gospel Puritanes and perhappes at their nexte proceding wil vtterly denie God how farre I saie they are alienated and diuided from you and that not only for Square cappes and side gownes but also for other matters that in their time shal be reueled I wil saie nothing here of the Arians Anabaptistes Libertines and Atheistes who since the first planting of your Gospel haue crepte into the realme and now swarme in diuers places there vncontrolled who if they had the ful libertie ye preached when ye first laboured to supplante the Catholiques were wel like shortely to set you also beside the stoole But they for that their time is not yet come must doo as they maie and be passed ouer as not seene that al the charitable blowes of your fyrie Gospel might light vpon the Catholiques headdes Your manner alwaies is in the allegation of histories as also of other thinges to adde somwhat of your owne as you doo in telling vs how Pope Steuen vnburied his predecessour Pope Formosus â—abellicus falsified by M. Ievvel Sabellicus Ennead 9. lib. 1. where you reporte that he defaced and mangled his naked carkasse The historie maketh mention of no suche mangling and defacing of his Carkasse onely it sheweth that the forefingers of his right hande whiche had benne annointed and consecrated were cut of and that the Pontifical garmentes wherein Popes were wonte of an olde custome to be buried were taken of from his corps A man that had heard of defacing and mangling a naked carkasse would haue thought that the carkasse had benne hewed in peeces or otherwise spitefully mangled Leaue leaue that il propertie for shame M. Iewel Adde not diminishe not tel stories as you finde them and so shal you geue your Aduersarie lesse aduantage against you It is maruaile it came not into your head by diligent searche to finde out a dissension emong the Popes bicause some of them loued rather to eate fishe then fleshe some vsed to rise sooner in the morning some later some were of stature higher some lower And least your storie should be vnrequitted it were
shal succede him that is your accursed addition but he saith non parcentes gregi which you haue left out Those rauening Wolues shal not spare the flocke but shal diuide the faith and scatter the flocke as you haue doone For where one Faith was you haue made two and where charitie was you haue set debate Now whereas S. Paule farther saith men speaking peruerse things shal spring out of them selues he saith not Act. 20. they shal spring by Succession That is your foule corruption of the holy texte He addeth also other wordes immediatly whiche you haue leaft out as vtterly betraying your foule Heresies It foloweth in the selfe same clause and sentence vt abducant discipulos post se There shal spring out of your selues men speaking peruerse thinges Act. 20. to leade away scholars after them Vt abducant to lead away Whence shal they lead them from the Apostles and from their Successours and from the flocke wherein they liued before Whither shal they lead them Post se after them selues That is to saie they shal not keepe the former Succession of Doctrine and order teaching as their Fathers haue donne but they shal departe from that Succession and shal leade and cari◅ others awaie with them and become peruerse Teachers in suche sorte that they shal haue Disciples of their owne who shal beare their name as Luther hath the Lutherans Zuinglius hath the Zuinglians Caluine hath the Caluinistes after him who goe away from their forefathers Doctrine and them selues set vp a new beleefe comming in Christes name and pretending his Gospel but yet not teaching his truth bicause thei leaue the Succession where only his truth was and is taught For it onely doth by open practise shewe and witnesse the true meaning of his worde vvho be the leaders avvay of the Flock 3. Reg. 12. This this M. Iewel is the Succession that we claime by Tu abducis you leade awaye the flocke from their auncient Pastours and shepeherds we tarie stil behinde in the old Succession of Peters Chaier Ieroboam went out from Moyses Chaier and caried ten tribes after him so did Arius and so did Luther so did Caluine so doo you The Prophetes taried behind with Moyses Chaier in so muche that good Simeon Anna Zacharias Elizabeth and our Ladie the Blessed Virgin Marie chose rather to dwel in Gods Church with the vnclean scribes and Pharisees then to goe out ofter the Samaritans and to seeke a cleaner Congregation either in the mount Garizim or in Egipte in the Scismatical Temple of Onias Euen so doo we abyde stil in the olde Church neither are we greatly moued with your mockes and scoffes when ye cal it the Mumpsimus Churche Yea we abide contented with the olde translation of the Bible with the olde Portuises and Masse bookes yea perhappes also emong some Scribes and Pharisees But yet there by Goddes grace we wil looke for our Lords glorious comming who commended our forefathers to the special charge of Peter Ioan. 21. and therein vs to his Successours We are within the Fold ye without we are Sheepe ye are Goates we keepe in al that we can ye drawe away and pul out al that ye can we sprang not out of you but ye out of vs. If S. Paule had spoken of his Successours in that place he would not haue said Vt abducant to leade away scholars For when some be leadde away some others tarie behind Now the Successour if he abide not behinde he is no Successour Nestorius a skatterer of the flock but a leader away In so muche that Nestorius being Bishop of Constantinople yet when he taught otherwise of Christes Person then his Predecessours had donne he was then no Successour of Alexander Paulus and S. Chrysostome because he disalowed those his Predecessours but he was a scatterer of the flocke and a leader away of Scholars after him selfe and not after his Predecessours Thinke you that any true beleeuing man taketh you M. Iewel for one of the Successours of S. Augustine our Apostle M. Ievv no Successour of our Apostle S. Augustine who conuerted our English nation from Idolotrie to Christe Are you his Successour Why you lead men away from him and persuade in this your booke that he was not our true Apostle nor any true teacher of Gods worde but a cruel and blouddy man 1. Ioan. 2. and proud aboue measure Away Woolfe and deuoure thy Goates abroade thou camest from vs but thou wert not of vs for if thou hadst benne of vs thou hadst remained stil with vs. I exhorte al Christian menne to returne vnto the Succession of Peter and of al other faithful menne who abide in the same faith with him Iewel S. Hierome saith they be not alvvayes the children of holy men that by Succession haue the places of holy men Dist 40. Non est Harding Double holines There is a double holinesse one of life an other of state or office Concerning life it is true that many times euil men succede in the place of good And so meant your Author M. Ievv falsifieth S. Hierome Dist 40. Nō est facile as his owne wordes whiche in the same sentence you haue leafte out doo witnesse For thus he saith Non Sanctorum filij sunt qui tenent loca sanctorum sed qui exercent opera eorum They are not the children of the Saintes who holde the places of the Saintes but those who practise the workes of the Saintes In this sentence you haue leaste out the ende and haue caste in of your owne the worde alwayes and these two wordes by Succession And when al is done the sentence is not S. Hieromes but Gratians owne added to the former woordes of S. Hierome Howbeit they are somewhat altered Hierom. epist ad Heliodorū For thus saith S. Hierome Non est facile stare loco Pauli tenere gradum Petri iam cum Christo regnantium It is not an easy thing to stande in the place of Paule and to holde the Degree of Peter now raigning with Christe of whiche ye can take no aduantage against Succession whereof we treat Holinesse of degree and office Ioan 1. But concerning holinesse of Degree state and office there is the same holinesse in the Successour which was in the Predecessour For it is Christe that baptizeth and that in like ministeries worketh by the euil man as wel as by the good so long as the Succession is not broken of and forsaken For if that be once done he that maketh the breache is not properly a Successour in truthe but a beginner of errour As for example Who wil say that Cranmer was the Successour of S. Thomas Cranmer no Sucessour of S. Thomas the blessed Martyr or of Bishop Warrham in the Chaier of Cantorburie I trowe he him selfe would not say it if he were a liue seing he succeded not in their Faith and Doctrine Iewel Pag. 127. Not vvithstanding the
lyes and gloses and also an vnprofitable bestowing of good time Iewel They are gonne from Faith to infidelitie from Christe to Antichrists Harding Which they M. Iewel Did he speake of the Popeâ—… of Rome M. Ievvel odiously layeth that to the Bishops of Rome vvhiche vvas spoken generally by vvaie of coÌ„plaint of al euil ChristiaÌ„s You say touching the Church of Rome c. And yet now you bring forth that which was generally spoken and that by waie of complaint of al euil Christians and not namely of the Bisshops of Rome Againe how are they gonne from faith to infidelitie and from Christ to Antichrist Verely bicause they are gonne froÌ„ God to Epicure that is to say bicause many of them liue as if they had neither faith nor Christ nor God Last of al he saith not they are gonne as you falsifie his wordes but with a moderation would God they were not gonne He sheweth him selfe to feare lest they be gonne he taketh not vpon him boldly to affirme it as you doo Iewel And yet al other thinges failing they must holde onely by Succession and only bicause they sit in Moyses Chaire they must claime the possession of the vvhole This is the right and vertue of their Succession Harding Is it not reason if secular men hold their kingdomes landes goodes and rightes by Succession yea when al other rightes forces and vertues faile that Gods Ministers if they had nothing els leaft should hold stil their owne also by Succession It is wel knowen that the Bishops of Rome haue more then only Succession For they make good Decrees they geue answer to great consultations they cal General and Prouincial Councelles they execute the Canons of them and send forth Preachers as of late they haue done euen vnto the new found Indies beside many other godly and vertuous actes which they exercise for the saluation of their own soules and of the people But what if they had nothing but Succession Would you then haue men forsake their folde and Church Did Isaias so did Esdras so did Iudas Machabeus so did Zacharias so did S. Iohn Baptist so Can you deuise the Popes to be worse then Caiphas or the Pharisees Math. 23. And yet Christ willed them to be obeied albeit they had litle els beside Succession It is this Succession M. Iewel which shal lie in your and in your companions waie at the dredful day of accompte It shal not be demaunded of euery man why he studied not the Scriptures which most men haue not learned to reade But it shal be demaunded why they haue no faith nor charitie No faith by forsaking the open and knowen Succession no charitie by breaking vnitie Euery man seeth Succession ignorance can not be pretended and euery man shal be iudged by it concerning his Faith Iewel The vvordes of Tertullian M. Harding vvhich you haue here alleged vvere spoken of certaine your ancient fathers that had raised vp a nevv religion of them selues as you haue also done vvithout either vvorde of God or example of the Apostles and holy fathers Harding It is happy that at the length Here at length M. Ievvel beginneth to ansvver my vvordes but how consider you beginne to answere my wordes We shal now see how wel you touche Tertullians meaning You say his wordes were spoken of certaine my ancient Fathers That can not be so For none are in this behalfe my fathers but those who loue wel the Succession of Bishops But Tertullian spake of those De Prascription aduersus Haret that esteemed the Succession of Bishops as litle as you do And therefore they are your fathers of whom he speaketh that is to say they are Heretikes of whom he speaketh For in dede no heretike can abide Succession bicause they would faine iustle out the olde Succession to schuffle in their new Intrusion You say the men of whom Tertullian speaketh raised vp a new Religion of them selues and therein you say truth You adde as I also haue donne but therein you belye me for ye are not hable to laye any one point of doctrine to my charge wherein I follow not that old Succession which abhorreth al new Religion Let al the worlde iudge who raiseth vp a newe Religion you or I. You say the Heretiques of who Tertullian spake raised vp a new Religion without the Worde of God example of the Apostles or of holy Fathers If you meane without the true meaning of Gods worde you say truth and then you also are without Gods worde bicause you are without the Church whereunto Gods worde with the true interpretation thereof was geuen and we are not without it bicause we conteine our selues within the Churche But if you meane that these heretikes did not sounde the wordes of the Scriptures in their lippes as falsely and withal as fast as you doo then you say not truly For Tertullian in that booke doth shew that the Heretikes also appealed to the Scriptures Tertullian in Prascript aduersus haeret and he answered that to striue with heretiques vpon the scriptures was a thing of vncertaine victorie bicause one saith it is not holy Scripture an other saith it is holy Scripture one saith it is meant thus an other saith it is â—â—â—â—t otherwise But saith Tertullian the interpretation of the Scriptures belongeth to them It booteth not to striue vvith heretiques about the Scriptures who haue the true faith and he concludeth that they haue the true faith who haue the perpetual Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne daies Scripturas obtendunt hac sua audacia statim quosdam mouent The Heretiques pretende to bring Scriptures for them selues and with that their impudencie forthwith they shake some And afterward Ibidem Ergo non ad scripturas prouocandum est nec in his constituendum certamen in quibus aut nulla aut incerta victoria est aut parum certa Therefore we must not alwaies appeale vnto the Scriptures neither must we striue about them in which either no victorie at al or an vncertaine or verely not very certaine victorie is obteined Then sheweth he that heretikes of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures but onely the Catholiques Heretiques of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures TertulliaÌ„ Ibidem to whom the Apostles deliuered them and not them only but other thinges also viua voce by mouth and worde without writing Si hac ita sunt constat proinde omnem doctrinam quae cum illis Ecclesiis Apostolicis matricibus et originalibus fidei conspiret veritati deputandam reliquam verò omnem doctrinam de mendacio praeiudicandam quae sapiat contra veritatem Ecclesiarum Apostolorum Christi Dei. If this be so then is it euident that al such doctrine as agreeth with those that are the Apostolique Churches the mother Churches and the original Churches of the faith is to be taken for true and that al other
time of Peter to thintent they should take vpon them the charge of the bishops duetie and he him selfe fulfil the office of an Apostle We finde that he did the like also at Caesarea where though he were present him selfe yet he had Zachaeus whom he ordered him selfe to be the bishop And thus both may seeme true to wit that they were taken for bishops before Clement and yet that Clement after the death of Peter tooke the place of teaching Ruffinus inuented not this solution of him selfe but he tooke it of others For he saith accepimus asmuche to saie we haue receiued we haue heard we haue learned this so that it was a thing knowen and taught from the beginning which yet M. Iewel either knew not or willily dissembled As though it were a great hinderance or preiudice to the Emperours Maiestie if it were vnknowen now whether Vitellius had ben Emperour before Galba or Galba before Vitellius with such toyes he stuffeth his booke Iewel Pag. 129. I might farther say that Peters See Apostolike vvas ouer the Ievves and not at Rome ouer the Heathens Gal. 2. For so S. Paule saith The Gospel of the Vncircuncision was committed vnto me as the Gospel of the Circuncision vnto Peter God that was mightie in Peter in the Apostleship of the Circuncision was mightie in me emong the Heathens Therefore if the Pope this day vvil claime only by Peters title and require no more then Peter had then must he seeke his Primacie emongest the Ievves vvhere Peter had his iurisdiction limited and not at Rome emong the heathen Christians emong vvhom as S. Paule saith he had not much to doe Harding The lewdnes of this licencious Minister passeth al reason He excludeth not only the Pope from the gouernement of the whole Churche but also from his owne Chaire at Rome neither only the Pope but euen the blessed Apostle S. Peter And he thinketh him selfe to haue the Scripture agreable vnto his malicious and fonde conceite VVhy S. Peter had to doo at Rome vvith the Gentile Christiās Mar. 16. S. Peter had to doo with those Christians at Rome which before had ben Heathens or Gentiles for foure special causes First bicause he was one of the twelue Apostles al which had to doo with any Christiā whether he had ben Iewe or heathen before For Christ said to them al Go ye into the whole world and preach the Gospel to euery creature that is to say to men of al nations were they Iewes or Gentiles So that who so euer denieth that S. Matthew S. Thomas or who soeuer els of the Apostles had to doo with the Christians being conuerted from their heathenish Idolatrie he denieth plainly Gods word If then euery Apostle had right to exercise any Apostolike duetie at Rome in case he had come thither what ignorance is it to say that S. Peter could not doo that in Rome which any one of the twelue might lawfully haue donne Secondly Christ him selfe hauing said before Ioan. 10. that he had other sheepe beside the Iewes whiche he would bring into his Folde said afterward to S. Peter Feede my lambes Ioan. 21. Feede my sheepe Seing then the Heathens or Gentiles that became faithful were Christes sheepe they were commended also vnto S. Peter And therefore he had to doo with them aboue al other men Thirdly God chose that is to say purposely prouided that the Gentiles should heare the worde of the Gospel by S. Peters mouth Actor 10. 15. and beleue Therefore it was the special wil and choise of God that S. Peter should haue to doo with the Heathens that should be conuerted which is directly against your saying M. Iewel VVhen S. Peter came vnto Rome Euseb Histor eccles lib 2. c. 14. Hierom. in Catalo VVhen came S. Paule vnto Rome Euseb Ecclesiast Hist lib. 2. cap. 22. Fourthly S. Peter came to Rome before S. Paule For S. Peter came thither in the dayes of Claudius the Emperour as Eusebius and S. Hierome with diuers others doo witnesse And there he preached the Gospel salutaris praedicationis verbo primus in vrbe Romae Euāgelij sui clauibus ianuam regni coelestis aperuit and first opened the gate of the heauēly Kingdom in the Citie of Rome with the keies of his Gospel by the word of heathful preaching But S. Paule came to Rome long after in the daies of Nero the Emperour as Eusebius also recordeth S. Peter therefore must nedes haue to doo with those Christians who were conuerted at Rome no lesse then S. Paule And thence also S. Peter wrote his first epistle as Papias one of the Apostles scholars doth witnesse Euseb Histor lib. 2. cap. 15. Did not you know al this M. Iewel as wel as I How chaunceth it then you are so impudent as to bring into doubte whether S. Peters See Apostolike was ouer the Heathens at Rome or no You answer for so saith S. Paule What doth he say that S. Peter was not ouer the faithful Heathens at Rome He neither saith it nor meaneth any such thing His meaning is to shew that he was made an Apostle not by Peter or Iohn or Iames or by any other man but only by Iesus Christe And therefore although three yeres after his conuersion he went to Ierusalem Gal. 1. Gal. 2. to see Peter and fourteen yeres afterward he cōferred with him concerning the Faith which he preached yet neither Peter nor Ihon nor Iames did geue him any thing or make him either the better learned or endewed him with more power and authoritie But rather they ioined handes with S. Paule and tooke him into their fellowship Why so In consideration that they saw God had no lesse committed to him the preaching of the Gospel vnto the Gentiles then he had before cōmitted to Peter the preaching of the gospel vnto the Iewes And how saw they either this or that Bicause the effect shewed it so For as God had wrought mightily emong the Iewes in conuerting them by S. Peters preaching so they saw that he wrought mightily emong the Gentiles by cōuerting them at the preaching of S. Paule So that by the very euente of the matter they saw that S. Paule was called in deed of God to the Apostleship S. Paule then meant not in these wordes that S. Peter by Christes cōmission had to doo only with the Iewes and him selfe only with the Gentiles Act. ca. 13. For S. Paule had also to do with the Iewes and he preached to them in their Synagogs through diuers partes of Asia and otherwhere Yea at Rome it selfe he preached to the Iewes Act. 28. Shame it is to you M. Iewel the shame of ignorance I meane or which is more likely the shame of impudencie if you see not that both S. Peter had to doo with the Gentiles and S. Paule with the Iewes and eche of them with both But what saying of holy scripture or of holy doctour did you
stuffe in some of your Germaine gatherers or elles it was ministred to you by some of your Cōministers if not by your blind lawier whose help you haue bought with a pece of an Archdeaconrie For you beganne not I suppose to studie the Canonistes and the gloses of the Law before you occupied the place of a Bishop if then at the least you did But how soeuer that be your memory might haue ben better bestowed thē in keping in stoare such a toie The Canonistes meane that the Pope as being the highest iudge is not bound to the obseruation of any thing in the law whiche is only Ceremonial so that he may dispense with those maters when he seeth cause and may with his only worde promote a man to the authoritie of a Bishop the omission of any Ceremonie notwithstanding But they speake only of rites and Ceremonies such as I suppose you your selfe would not or should not sticke vpon when either necessitie or vniuersal profite should require a thing to be spedily donne As for any point necessary to the Sacrament of holy Orders the Pope may not omit in any wise Iewel Pag. 129. Panor de cōstitutiō translato And Abbate Panormitane moueth a doubte vvhether the Pope by the fulnesse of his povver may depriue al the Bishoppes of the vvorlde at one time But thus they say that care not greatly vvhat they say Harding When you had only said that Panormitane moued the doubte you conclude with thus they say as though he had said that in deede the Pope might depriue al the Bishoppes in the worlde at once Certainely the mouing of the doubt sheweth him not to say it For many doubtes be moued you know pardy not to the ende men should thinke that al may be donne whereof by learned men a question is moued but that they may the better carie away the answer So question is moued emong the Scholemen An Deus sit whether God be not that any man at al doubteth thereof but to see how the doubte might be resolued if any man were so mad as to moue it Once it is certaine that the Pope can not depriue al Bishoppes For although they be vnder him specially if they do amisse or nede any helpe yet they are as truly Bishops as he is and are the Successours of the Apostles who knowing the Primacie to belong vnto S. Peter did yet make Bishops by Gods ordinance where so euer they thought it expedient Aaron was the chiefe emong al the Priestes and Leuites yet he could not therfore depriue al the Leuites and Priestes And euen so your owne Panormitane whom you make to doubte concludeth with these wordes Quod si papa vellet c. Translato ex de Constitut non posset remouere omnes Episcopos cum repraesentent omnes Apostolos If the Pope would he could not remoue al Bishops for as muche as they represent al the Apostles Cal you this a doubting when he so plainely determineth against that for which you alleage his doubting Iewel Verely Nilus a greeke vvriter saith thus Nilus d◠primatu Rom. Pontificie The Bishop of Constantinople doth order the Bishop of Cesarea and Other Bishops vnder him But the Bishop of Rome doth neither Order the Bishop of Constantinople nor any other Metropolitane Harding It neither much skilleth what Nilus doth say Nilus a late vvriter and mainteiner of the Greekes Schisme whose authoritie is so litle worth being a late mainteiner of the Schisme of the Grecians and yet though his saying were true it skilleth also as litle bicause it speaketh of a matter of facte and not of power For he sayth not that the Bishop of Rome is not hable or hath not power to order some Metropolitane but only that he doth not so meaning that he vseth not so to doo And if the not doing proue any impotencie or vnablenes to doo it then it maie be said Christe is not hable to ordeine a Deacon bicause we read not that euer he did so by his owne mouth Actor 6. or handes For Deacons were ordeined by his Apostles after his Ascension But albeit the Pope vseth not to Order Metropolitanes with his owne handes yet Nilus I trow meant not but that he was of power to doo it or if he was so folish as to thinke so yet you M. Iewel should not in that behalfe beare the bable with him as who confesse that he was euer as great a Patriarke and much more auncient then the Bishop of Constantinople was so that the Bishop of Constantinople can not be able to doo that which the Pope also can not doo To be short you that can cal so many gloses to your remembrance could you not remember that as Liberatus Liberatus in breuiari◠ca. 21. recordeth Anthenius the Bishop of Constantinople being yet aliue but deposed for heresie Agapetus that good Bishop of Rome consecrated and ordered with his owne handes Mennas who professed the Catholike faith making him Bishop of Constantinople in stede of the other heretical Bishop Are you then so farre to seeke in your Logike as not to know that if the Bishop of Rome did lawfully once order the Bishop of Constantinople that stil he were of authoritie and power so to doo if nede were Iewel But hereof I haue spoken more at large in my former Replie to M. Harding Harding But thereof you are confuted more at large by M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes vpon you and yet could you dissemble the matter as though your fourth Article and namely that part whereof here you speake were not founde as ful of Vntruthes as of Allegations Iewel Pag. 129. Certainely S. Cyprian vvilleth that Sabinus being lavvfully elected Cyprian Lib. 1. Epist 4. and consecrate Bishop in Spaine should continevve Bishop stil yea although Cornelius being then Bishop of Rome vvould not confirme him Harding By this a man may know what a Dodger you are and whence your great bookes procede Verely from certaine heretical Notebookes made by some Grāmarians or Scholemasters of Germanie For alwaies your allegations and reportes come out after the same sorte If once they conteined an open lye being neuer so often repeated they shal stil conteine it and reason For they were alwayes written out of one lying fountaine In the Returne Artic. 4. Fol. 127. M. Stapleton had told you of this very matter before He shewed that your note booke is false It was not Pope Cornelius but Pope Steuen who would haue restored Basilides to his bishoprike against Sabinus who was newly elected in Spaine But the staye why Pope Steuens Decree stoode not was only for lacke of true information in Basilides appeale made to Rome Now reason and lawe sheweth that when a thing is not done only vpon a certaine cause that cause ceasing the thing should be right wel done Sabinus might continue Bishop not withstanding that Pope Steuen wrote against him onely bicause Basilides for whom the Pope wrote
who haue vnlawfully inuaded the administration of the Sacramentes can make any iust and right answer I am sure * These being my questions M. Iewel you answer neither by what example handes were laid on you nor who sent you but only you say he made you priest that made me in king Edwardes daies Verely I neuer had any name or title of Priesthod geuen to me during the raigne of King Edward I onely tooke the Order of Deaconshippe as it was then ministred farther I went not So that if you haue none other Priesthoode then I had in King Edwardes time you are yet but a Deacon and that also not after the Catholique manner but in a Schismatical sorte Truly after that I had wel considered with my selfe those questions which in my Confutation I moued vnto you I tooke my selfe neither for a Priest nor yet for a lawful Deacon in al respectes by those orders Rom. 13. which were taken in king Edwardes daies For I cōsidered that whereas al power commeth from God most specially the power whereby the Church is gouerned commeth from him by Christe And seing al men know and see how the power whereby temporal kingdomes are gouerned is and ought to be wel witnessed by lineal descent of bloud or els by election and such other vocations as are among men and seing that external witnesse whereby their titles are proued is both good and necessary I thought that it was much more conuenient to graunt that the power whereby Christes Churche is gouerned ougtht to be wel witnessed euen outwardly ◠Timo. 3. sithens S. Paule requireth also that a Bisshoppe or Priest should be of a good name emong the Infidels if he liue with them And seing Christ came into the worlde to be seene and to minister and to institute visible Sacramentes and to sende visible Preachers Iohan. 02 I considered what an absurditie it was after his Ascension for man to chalenge an Inuisible Churche or Succession to him selfe Furthermore when I vewed the state of the Primitiue Churche and saw that Bishoppes euermore succeded lineally one after an other euen from the Apostles time and had read that same order of Succession to be vrged and pressed vpon by S. Irenaeus S. Cyprian Optatus and S. Augustine as is afore noted And perceiued that who soeuer forsooke the open and knowen Successiō of Bishops he was condemned for an Heretike as wel in the Latine as in the Greeke Churche al these thinges being set before myne eyes through Gods grace who shewed me them I esteemed not the title of any Ministerie which I might seeme to haue receiued in King Edwardes time so muche as I should haue done if I had receiued it of a Catholique Bishop and after the order of the Catholique Churche being wel assured that those who tooke vpon them to geue Orders were altogether out of Order them selues and ministred them not according to the rite and manner of the Catholique Churche as who had forsaken the whole Succession of Bishops in al Christendome and had erected a new Congregation of their owne planting the forme whereof was imagined only in their owne braines and had not benne seene nor practised in the world before Now the same reasons which with many other moued me I proponed to M. Iewel not being wholly without hope but that through Gods grace they might haue moued him also And yet he not vnwitting that I had returned to the vniuersal and onely true Churche and that I had taken a better ground of Priesthod then his Secte hath among whom al external Priesthod is vtterly denied he dissembling al this wil seeme to be a Priest by my knowledge and confession as if he and I had benne made priestes by the same man No no M. Iewel We were in parte together but I thanke God of it wee were not wholly together For I was with you with feare of God and with misliking of many your deedes and opinions and with desire to serue God in that Truthe Religion and Churche wherein I might safely reste and quiet my selfe In your fellowship I soughte that safe quietnes but I neuer founde it bicause my feete were not staied vpon the Rocke nor vpon anie sure grounde sith I sawe what ye misliked but I sawe not what ye woulde haue I sawe what ye pulled downe but I sawe not what ye set vp I sawe from what auncient Churche ye were departed but I sawe you not to goe to any elder societie of faithful men then your selues were And yet I knewe and at the length considered that Christes Churche must be aboue fifteen hundred yeres olde whereas your Churche place it at Wittenberge at Zuriche or in what other corner so euer ye wil is not yet ful fiftye yeres olde and your firste Preacher can shewe no commission either ordinarie or miraculous for him selfe These reasons with diuers other moued me the same also ought to haue moued you And bicause you can not answer them you dissemble them and therefore of your lawful Commission Vocation and Sending you speake neuer a worde Iewel 130. Father as if you vvere my Metropolitane ye demaunde of me vvhether I be a Bishop or no. I ansvver you I am a Bishop and that by the free and accustomed Canonical Election of the vvhole Chapter of Sarisburie assembled solemnely together for that purpose Harding It was no free Election M. Iewel M. Iewels canonical election to the See of Sarisburie when the Chapter whiche chose you saw that excepte it chose you it selfe shoulde be in danger of the lawe and of the Princes displeasure It was no Canonical Election when he was chosen whom the olde Canons haue iudged vnable for that Vocation For howe can he be chosen Bishoppe that is to saye highe Prieste who teacheth that there is not at al any external Priesthod in the Churche Howe can he be chosen Bishoppe that is to saye highe prieste who teacheth with the olde condemned Heretique Aerius Epiphan Haeres 75. that by Gods lawe there is no difference betwen a Bisshoppe and a priest How can he be lawfully chosen Bishoppe in Sarisburie according to the olde Canons who teacheth al the olde Canons to be superstitiouse wherein from the Apostles time Praiers for the dead were commaunded and prescribed What Canon can allowe his Election who breaketh the Vnitie of the Churche and diuideth him selfe and his flocke 〈…〉 Quenes Chappel let M. Richard Chaundler prebendarie there and Archedeacon of Sarisburie let your owne frende and faithfelowe M. Parry Chauncellour of that Churche be demaunded whether I was present at your Election and gaue free and open consent vnto it or no. I maruel that you who can remember so many sayinges of Glosers and Canonistes could not remember to cal for the Registers booke or for the witnesse of those of that Church there with you daily present to vnderstand the truth hereof before you wrote this much You knew it you knew it right wel M.
Counters the Kinges Beanch and other prisons in London be hable to kepe men fast But if you speake of your owne Church surely you had Apostates and renegate priestes in it Aduersus LuciferiaÌ„ or you had no Church at al as out of S. Hierome I shewed before who saith no Priest no Church And verely no trew Church euer was there without an External and publike Sacrifice which it might offer to God to acknowlege that he is the beginning and ende of al grace and goodnes But where no external Priesthod is as you now beleue ther is none there is no external Sacrifice and coÌ„sequeÌ„tly no true Church And seing renegate priestes can not make a true Church nor their Sacrifice can be acceptable vnto God yea rather seing they are of the mind and belefe that it is not lawful to honour God with the external Sacrifice of Christes owne body and bloud leaft to vs for that intent it doth stil follow that although ye haue true Priestes which runne from vs yet haue ye neither true Sacrifice by them nor true Church Ievvel Pag. 131. Tâ—rtullian saith Nonne laici sacerdotes sumus scriptum est c. And vve being laye men are vve not priestes it is written In exhortatione ad CastitateÌ„ Christ hath made vs both a kingdome and priestes vnto God his father The authoritie of the Church and the honour by the assemblie or Councel of Order sanctified of God hath made a difference betwen the laye and the clergie whereas there is no assemblie of ecclesiastical Order the priest being there alone vvithout the companie of other priestes doth both minister the oblatioÌ„ and also baptize Yea and be there but three together and though they be laye men yet is there a Church For euery man liueth of his owne faith Harding Wonder not M. Iewel as you confesse that once you did at your misfortune and euil lucke in that by vs a thowsand faultes are sooner fownd in your bookes then you could wel without blushing if any shame were in you note two hundred in myne For who so euer writeth against the truth can not possibly bring one word which for maintenance of an vntruth may be altogether truly applied after the writers minde out of whome the same is alleged onlesse that writer were him selfe an Heretike or in that behalfe by better iudgement noted of some errour Therefore it is easier to find many thowsand Lyes in your bookes then any fewe in myne And as that hath ben shewed in many other examples heretofore so shal it now appeare most euidently in this which you bring out of Tertullian TertulliaÌ„ in exhort ad castitatem MoÌ„tanus and Tertullian coÌ„demned the secoÌ„d Mariages First the booke and worke that you allege is one of those which Tertullian wrote against the Churche after that he became an Heretike and was one of the disciples of Montanus For as Montanus did condemne the second Mariages so did his scholar Tertullian Who hauing corruptly interpreted many places of S. Paule commeth at the length to proue his heresie by conferring the olde Testament with the new Ecce in veteri lege c. Beholde saith he in the olde lawe I finde the licence of mariyng ofte to be inhibited It is enacted in the booke of Leuiticus Sacerdotes mei non plus nubent my Priestes shal not marrye any more But the fulnes of the law as in other pointes so in this was reserued to Christe alone VVhereupon it was more fully and more streightly prescribed that those ought bo be of one matrimonie who are chosen in the Priestly ordâ—r In so much that I my selfe remember certaine menne for hauing had two wiues to haue ben remoued from their place of Priesthod An obiection of TertulliaÌ„ against him selfe But thou wilt say Then is it lawful for other menne to marrie twise for so much as exception is made against them to wit against Priestes to whom it is not lauful to haue ben twise maried Hitherto Tertullian hath gon about by the example of the Priestes of the olde and new Testament to shew that Laye men also may not marrye but once For in the newe Testament S. Paule would haue them only chosen to Priesthod Tit. 1. The husband of one vvife who are or haue benne the husbandes of one wife that is to saye haue neither had two wiues at once nor haue married a widowe nor haue had two wiues one after an other For al this doth the Apostle meane and the auncient Fathers do so witnesse Now Tertullian saw euidently that there was a difference betwen Priestes and laye menne whereupon he made the former obiection to him selfe that the second mariages which only do staye a man from being Priest are absolutely lawful for him who wil be no Priest but wil remaine stil in the degree and state of laye men To the which obiection being to strong for Tertullian it behoued him so to answere as yet his heresie against the second mariages might be mainteined So that nowe M. Iewel bringeth forth his heretical answer made vnto a Catholikes argument Thus then Tertullian goeth forwarde Vani erimus si putauerimus quòd Sacerdotibus noÌ„ liceat laicis licere nonne laici Sacerdotes sumus We shal be deceiued or we shal be vaine men if we shal thinke that to be lawful for Laye menne whiche is not lawful for Priestes We that are Laye men are we not Priestes also And so he goeth forward with that which M. Iewel did allege for his purpose Double priesthod For wheras there is a double Priesthod one publike and external which is onely coÌ„mon to those that receiue power to consecrate Christes Body and Bloud at the Altare the other priuate and internal which is indifferently common to the Priestes and to laye men whereby they al receiue power in Baptisme to offer spiritual Sacrifices vnto God 1. Pet. 2. as S. Peter saith Tertullian would haue the argument to be good that as none are made publike and external Priestes whiche haue had two wiues so none who are internal priestes might haue two wiues But Tertullian is deceiued in his heretical argument as wel as M. Iewel is in alleging an heretical authoritie Whereupon S. Hierome saith Montanus TertulliaÌ„ enemie â—o sâ—coÌ„d mariages qui Nouati schisma sectaÌ„tur putant secunda matrimonia ab Ecclesiae communione prohibenda cùm Apostolus de Episcopis Praesbyteris hoc praecipiens vtique in caeteris relaxârit non quòd hortetur ad secunda matrimonia sed quòd necessitati carnis indulgeat Montanus and those who followe the schisme of Nouatus thinke that the second Mariages ought to be forbidden from the Communion of the Church whereas the Apostle geuing that commaundement vnto Bishoppes and priestes hath doubteles released it in other men Not that he exhorteth them to secoÌ„d mariages but bicuase he yeeldeth to the necessitie of the flesh So that S. Hierome reproueth
am ioyned in communion to the Chaire of Peter vpon that Rocke I knowe the Churche is builte Iewel Pope Adrian the fourth vvas vvoont to saye vve succede not Peter in feeding but Romulus in killing Harding Were it true you would haue named your authour Now your saying semeth to procede out of your owne Forge But what if it were true that Pope Adrian said so by waye of complaint This proueth that as some of his predecessours were euil men so alwaies God gaue his grace to some other Popes to disallowe their faultes and yet to continewe their Faith Doctrine and Succession Iewel Pag. 132. And to leane Dame Ioan the vvoman Pope vvith many others mee of like vertue and holinesse as hauing no pleasure in this rehersal Harding There was no such woman Pope and yet God knoweth you take stil great pleasure in the rehersal of a vaine dreame as you doo of many other false tales dreamed first by Martinus Polonus Iewel For as much as M. Harding began this matter vvith Sarisburie to ende it vvith the same Ioannes Sarisburiensis saith In Polya cratico in Romana Ecclesia sedent Scribae Pharisaei In the Church of Rome by Succession sitte the Scribes and Pharisees Harding The matter that I began here to treate of was not of Sarisburie but of your SuccessioÌ„ in Sarisburie for which notwithstanding the huge stuffe you bring you shewe your selfe to haue nothing to saie Touching Ioannes Sarisburiensis if it were so that Scribes and Pharisees sate in the Churche of Rome yet you should be damned for departing from them 3. Reg. 12. euen as Ieroboam was for departing from the Chaire of Moyses You are bound to communicate in Doctrine with the chiefe Chaier what soeuer they be that sit in it For Christe bad vs kepe that Matt. 23. which they commaunde Now as the Scribes and Pharisees sitting in the Chaire of Moyses did exactly kepe his Succession and witnessed the continuance of that Temple whereunto al the Iewes were bound So the Popes of Rome sitting in S. Peters Chaire do exactly mainteine his Succession and witnesse that to be the true Rocke and Churche whereunto al we are bound to be obedient as sheepe to the chiefe Pastour But sith you are desirous to end this matter begonne as you saye of Sarisburie with Sarisburie whereby you meane the auctoritie of Ioannes Saresburiensis therewith I am right wel contente For your parte that is to say against the Churche of Rome whose faith we professe whatsoeuer be the manners of some great persons in that Churche you allege Iohn of Sarisburie saying that Scribes and Pharisees sitte in the Churche of Rome True it is these wordes be in Iohn of Sarisburie in deede As for the Addition by Succession it is your owne it is not his But you must vnderstand they be not his owne wordes as spoken by him selfe but reported by him as wordes of the common people For being required of Pope Adrian the fourth who was an Englishman in familiar talke whereto for his learning and wisdome he was admitted to declare freely what was commoÌ„ly said abroade of the Pope and of the Churche of Rome among other thinges bruted abroade by waye of complaint specially against the Briberie and coueteousnes of great personages of that Churche he rehersed those wordes out of the Gospel Matt. 23. At the ende of his tale thus he concluded Iohannes Sarisburiensis in Polycratico de curialium nugis lib. 6. cap. â—4 signifiing whose tale he tolde Haec inquam Pater loquitur populus quandoquidem vis vt illius tibi sententias proferam These thinges Father the people speaketh for asmuch as you wil haue me to vtter vnto you what they saie Thus M. Iewel by testimonie of your Ihon of Sarisburie you proue nothing against our Doctrine of Succession but onely put vs in mynd what the common people in those dayes said of the gouernours of the Church If you would with as good sinceritie haue alleged on the other side what good he in the same booke and Chapter reporteth of them as with malice you reherse the euil you should haue laid forth a very good tale for them For immediatly after the wordes before rehersed thus it foloweth there Et tu inquit quid sentis And what is your opinion quod the Pope Thereto answereth Iohn of Sarisburie Angustiae inquam sunt vndique Vereor enim ne mendacij vel adulationis cortraham notam si solus populo contradixero Sin autem reatum vereor Maiestatis ne tanquam qui os in coelum posuerim crucem videar meruisse I am driuen quod he to straightes on euery side For I feare me I shal be noted for a Lyer or a flatterer if I alone be in my tale contrarie to the people Elles if I should saie as they saie I feare the gilte of treason least I seme to haue deserued the pounishment of death being as it were one that haue set my mouth vp against heauen This Preface semeth to conteine the wordes of one that intendeth to vtter the truth plainly and discretely And although there in deede he touche the Popes and the Romaine Clergies faultes freely yet on the other side he confesseth him selfe moued in coÌ„science to speake muche also in the praise of many These be his wordes Vnum tamen audacter conscientia teste profiteor Ibidem quia nusquà m honestiores Clericos vidi quà m in Ecclesia Romana aut qui magis auaritiam detestentur Albeit some be faulty yet one thing my conscience bearing me witnesse I dare be bolde to saie that no where I haue sene Clerkes of more honestie then in the Churche of Rome or that doo more deteste coueteousnes Of such good and vertuous Clerkes there he reckeneth vp some by name At length speaking of the number of the good in general he saith Plurium tanta modestia tanta grauitas est vt Fabriciâ— non inueniantur inferiores quem agnita salutis via modis omnibus antecedunt The modestie and grauitie of the more parte of them is so great that they are founde nothing inferior to Fabricius the noble Romaine of famous memorie for his vertue whom in respecte of that they acknowlege the waie of Saluation which he knew not being an Infidel by al meanes they passe and excelle Then folow these wordes immediatly which are most to our purpose and most worthy of consideration Quia verò instas vrges praecipis cùm certum sit quòd Spiritui sancto mentiri non licet fateor quia quod praecipis faciendum est si non sitis omnes operibus imitandi Nam qui a doctrina vestra dissentit aut haereticus aut schismaticus est For asmuche as you are instant vpon me and wil haue no nay and commaunde me to saie what I thinke sith it is certaine that I maie not lye vnto the holy Ghoste I graunte that what you commaunde vs to doo we must doo although ye be not
is that M. Ievvel perfourmeth in this mater of Priestes and Votaries marriages Now commeth me M. Iewel in and allegeth Doctours as thicke as haile olde and newe knowen and vnknowen allowed and disallowed Schoolemen and Summistes vea the very marginal Annotations vpon the Glose of Gratian are haled in to helpe at a pintche and yet al helpeth not Of his owne in manner he saith nothing but thus Origen saith Tertullian saith suche a one saith and suche an other saith and he saith and againe he saith c. Then he laith downe their Latine be it true be it false and putteth a translation vnto it suche as becommeth shifters to vse in a false matter and thus furnisheth out a great booke that the worlde may thinke he is a great Clerke Were al that he allegeth to the purpose then were it somewhat yet were it no great commendation to make bookes onely out of Notebookes already made and gathered to his handes First to declare his order keeping him selfe a luffe of M Iewels order in his treatie of this pointe and his tvvo principles and comming nothing neare the point wherein my Confutation consisteth he bringeth the holy Fathers into suspicion of not dealing vprightly and indifferently herein bearing the Reader in hande they haue swarued from truth either in the auauncing of Virginitie or els in the disgracing of lawful Matrimonie To make proufe of this he allegeth no smal number of sentences out of certaine Fathers in whiche not being thoroughly examined they seeme to speake hardly of Marriage specially of the second Mariage For this point his Doctours be these Tertullian in Exhortatione ad Castitatem the author of the vnperfite worke vpon S. Matthew whom he calleth Chrysostom whereas it is wel knowen not to be his as that whiche conteineth sundry heinous heresies S. Hierome writing against Iouinian Heluidius and to Gerontia Athenagoras in Apologia pro Christianis Nazianzen in dictum Euangelij Cùm perfecisset Iesus c. Origen in Lucam Homilia 17. for which his cotation hath Homil. 19. Nexte he reckeneth vp so many menne as he hath read of that being Married were afterwardes made Bisshops Of whom he saith that they vsed Mariage them selues in their owne personnes which is more then he is liable to proue if by vse of Marriage he meane the carnal copulation M. Iewels tvvo Principles These two that is to say the Fathers disgracing of Matrimonie and their hauing of wiues them selues he calleth by the name of his two Principles whiche being laid he maketh his stoute vaunte that he is the better hable to consider the substance of my reasons for so he saith and there at length he addresseth him selfe to shape an Answere to the parte of my Confutation aboue sette out Now to say somewhat to his Principles before I come to his Answer were it true that certaine Fathers speaking of Matrimonie vsed immoderate and extraordinarie speaches for so he termeth them Againe that many of them had ben married before they came to be Bishops what perteineth that to the defence of the marriage of Votaries and Priestes whiche was the point presently treated of What wil he make this fonde and childish Argument Certaine Fathers spake ouer vehemētly concerning Matrimonie Item some of them were called to the dignitie of Bishops from the state of married menne Ergo Priestes Monkes Friers and Nonnes who haue vowed Chastitie may lawfully marrie wiues and take husbandes Truly either this is his reason or els hitherto he hath no reason at al. And of what smal substance this reason is the veriest Cobblers of al their Ministers if they can reade any English besides their communion booke may easily perceiue Touching the Fathers speaches in reproufe of Matrimonie one answer M. Iewel Ansvver to M. Ievvels doctours in manner may serue to refute al that you would inferre of their sayinges Onely I excepte Tertullian who being fallen into the fowle Heresie of Montanus in his booke intituled Exhortatio ad castitatem wrote otherwise of Marriage specially in that he condemned second marriage then the Catholique Church holdeth or the trueth beareth And S. Hierome witnesseth as Beatus Rhenanus noteth that booke to haue ben written against the Churche Now we thinke not our selues bounde to defende what so euer they say whom the Churche condemneth for Heretiques As for Origen likewise you knowe of how litle credite he is in regard of sundry great errours albeit touching the case of the second and third Mariage The Fathers cal immoderate luste an euil thing for vvhiche they be thought of some vnlearned to reproue marriage De peccato originali contra Pelag. Coelestiū lib. 2. c. 37 Lib 1. de Nuptiu et Concupiscent c. 22 speaking where of you allege him he may better be defended then Tertullian may As concerning the other Fathers by you alleged the thing for which they seeme sometimes to speake of Matrimonie not fauorably is the immoderate concupiscence or luste now after sinne by our first parentes committed which is of the holy Fathers reported to be malum asmuch to say an euil thing and to procede not of God but of sinne without which euil thing the thing that is good in Matrimonie that is to say generation can not be perfourmed This besides other Fathers S. Augustine calleth oftentimes malum an euil thing as carnalis concupiscentiae malum the euil of fleshly luste and malum libidinis the euil thing of carnal pleasure c. He saith that natural shamefastnesse sheweth it so to be by whiche it commeth to passe that although married personnes glorie in Children yet when they attend vpon the worke of begeting Children they choose them selues secrete places and wil al witnesses to be out of their waie thereby confessing the shamefastnesse it selfe of Nature And this muche our first Parentes confessed after they had sinned Gen. 3. by that they were ashamed and coouered their shamely partes with Figge tree leaues as the Scripture plainely declareth Neither proceedeth this euil thing of Marriage but of sinne August in Psal 70. and it is the paine of sinne In married personnes it is euil but no sinne malum poenae not malum culpae as the Scholastical Diuines cal it And this is the meaning of that saying of the authour that wrote the vnperfite worke vppon S. Matthew Opere imperfecto in Matth. Hom. 1. sub finem whome you wil needes to be S. Chrysostome The saying is this Haec ipsa Coniunctio Maritalis malum est ante Deum Non dico Peccatum sed malum This very wedlocke Coniunction it selfe is an euil thing before God I saie not it is Sinne but I saie it is an euil thing In translating whiche woordes you doo very falsly demeane your selfe and beguyle your vnlearned Reader For in that place the authour meaneth not by Coniunctio Matrialis the Copulation of Matrimonie as you translate it as though he said VVhat is that vvhich is of the
processe declared by S. Gregorie Nazianzene in the Oration which he made at the burial of his Father Whereby it is made cleare to al menne how his Father was holpen by his wife not as being a Bishop as M. Iewel doth vntruly say but as yet being an Infidel That her sonne reporteth of her that she was vnto his Father a helper a guide a leader Faithful vviues haue ben cause of their husbandes conuersion to the faith Monica S. Augustines Mother laboured to coÌ„uert Patricius her husband Confessionum li. 9. cap. 9. a Captaine an instructour a teacher a maistresse in religion and godlinesse al this is to be vnderstanded of the time in which he remained an vnbeleuer not of the time in which he was Bishop of Nazianzum Herein she did the parte that many other godly and faithful wiues haue donne who haue vsed the like diligence and care to bring their husbandes being Infidels vnto the faith of Christe That holy woman Monica S. Augustines mother did the like with her husband Patricius of whom he writeth thus in his booke of Confessions speaking vnto God as there his manner is Tradita vira seruiuit veluti Domino sategit cum lucrari tibi c. When she was married out vnto her husband she serued him as if he had ben her Maister and tooke care how she might winne him vnto thee ô Lorde Againe he said there afterwarde Virâ—m sâ—â—m iam in extrema vita temporall eiuâ— lucrata est tibi She wanne her husband vnto thee ô Lorde now in the ende of his temporal life In consideration that God oftentimes worketh such grace by the wife to the winning of the husband vnto God S. Paule requireth that a Christian woman put not awaie her husband from her being an infidel if he coÌ„sent to dwel with her For how knowest thou o woman saith he whether thou shalt saue thy husband or no 1. Cor. 7. Either you haue read these thinges M. Iewel in the place from whence you tooke the wordes which here you allege or you trusted the gatherer of your Notes If you trusted your gatherer you should haue tried the testimonie wel before you had spoken so peremptorily If you haue readde and seene al this in that you haue conceeled the truth and spoken so much to the contrary you shew your selfe to be one that is litle to be trusted Certainely al menne may nowe see howe iust cause I haue not to take these fittons and corruptions againe vnto me but to leaue them with you and to charge you with them as I did before in my Confutation of your Apologie After this M. Iewel bringeth in a great meany of Doctours sayinges with whiche they commende Marriage and seeme to blame them that despised and condemned Marriage and were of the opinion that a man could not be saued if he were married Whereunto I thinke al answere needeles for asmuch as we are not they that condemne Marriage as it hath now ben oftentimes said we esteme it as honorable and where marriage is lawful and lawfully vsed we accoÌ„pt that bed vnspotted and cleane as S. Paule calleth it Mary we say Heb. 13. that who soeuer haue bound them selues to liue in continencie by soleÌ„ne Vow as Priestes and Religious persons for them it is not lawful to marrie and their Marriage is vnlawful or rather none at al. Against whiche doctrine M. Iewel hath nothing to say nor to allege and yet touching Marriage he hath filled a great deale of paper with the doctours sayinges So ready he is to bring muche and so litle hable to bring ought that maketh clearely for him What thinges certaine Fathers haue writen against impure heretikes dispraising marriage in al men VVith vvhat stuffe M. Ievv furnisheth out this pointe at large Defence Pag. 187. 188. 189. the same he allegeth now as if they were spoken against the Catholikes condemning the Marriage of these Apostates He bringeth in a long saying of Origen spoken of the Marcionistes and Cerdonistes and such others He allegeth Epiphanius against the filthy Origenians Chrysostome against wicked wemen that keping the name of Maides liued worse then hartlots in the Stewes Briefely so many mo as he founde old and late writers of al sortes speaking bitterly against the impune life of il menne and wemen Whereunto I answere briefly As al the married Apostates approche neare vnto the filthinesse of Deuils so some of the Catholique Clergie and religious personnes be farre from the purenesse of Angelles God geue vs al grace to amende that is amisse and you M. Iewel a better harte and more charitie towardes his Church With which grace being endewed you wil take lesse pleasure in reporting il of her Ministers I neede not here after this sorte to trauaile any farther in this matter against Maister Iewel What soeuer is beside that whiche I haue here answered in the whole booke of his pretensed Defence touching thâ—… point it is either not worth the answering as altogether impertinent or sufficiently refelled in my former Confutation Compare the one with the other Christian Reader and if thou be hable to iudge of these thinges assure thy selfe my sayd Confutation maie satisfie thee for ought that M. Iewel bringeth Now bicause it were infinite to stand vppon euery pointe and to discusse so many tedious and impertinent allegations I thinke it more conuenient to vse an other waie and by laying together certaine his Vntruthes to make shorter worke M. Iewels Vntruthes and flatte Lies concerning the Marriage of Priestes and Votaries He steineth the authoritie of S. Hierome S. Chrysostome Pag. 165. S. Gregorie Nazianzen and diuers other learned and ancient Fathers as disgracing lawful Matrimonie and the Marriage of Widowes and Widowers He saith S. Hierome in Catalogo witnessed that Tertullian was a married Priest Pag. 166. The place wil shew this vntruth Albeit I denie not but that he was married before he was Priest and so were diuers others as Spiridion S. Gregorie Nazianzenes Father Gregorius Nyssenus and certaine others He saith S. Hilarie Bishoppe of Poitiers was married and that he prooueth by an Apocryphal epistle to one Abra his daughter These toies are vaine and more fabulous then Esops fables So he maketh Prosper the bishop of Rhegium a married man vpon a felender coniecture how soeuer it be it can not be prooued that he was married after that he was Bishop that is ynough for vs. He saith that Polycrates had seuen of his Fathers Bishops before him The meaning of the testimonie alleged for that purpose is that seuen of his howse and kinred had benne Bishoppes in his Churche before him For so signifieth the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as is before noted That which he allegeth vnder the name of Pope Damasus is intitled in the Decrees Palea as muche to say Chaffe by which name in the Decrees of Gratian that is signified which is by some other maÌ„
onely in the Canonical Scriptures of the olde and new Testament mannes harte can haue setled reste Against this I bring the example of Abel Noe Abraham Isaac and Iacob and of those holy menne that liued before the time of Ezdras when the Scriptures were loste and here I demaund whether their hartes neuer founde setled reste For if reste be founde onely in the Scriptures how could they haue reste when no booke nor parte of the Scriptures was written If it be true as the coÌ„trarie can not be proued that Moyses was the first that euer wrote any parte of the Scriptures shal we iudge that al the holy Patriarches that were before that time had no setled reste in their hartes CoÌ„fut fol. 82. b. If this be true then say I had good Abel no better reste in his harte then wicked restlesse Cain As I said in my Confutation so for ought that M. Iewel is hable to bring in his Defence I saie here againe what foolish and absurde Doctrine is this Now how dooth M. Iewel defende this Doctrine of his Apologie What is his answere I wish no more but that it be read and coÌ„ferred with my CoÌ„futation here to write out al againe it were too long He slincketh awaie from his own wordes and by change of wordes maketh of it a new question M. Harding saith he saith further If quietnes of coÌ„science come of the word of God only then had Abel no more quietnes of coÌ„science then wicked rest lesse Cain You belie M. Harding as your custome is he saith not so Let the booke be trial betwen vs bothe The question is not whether mannes harte findeth his setled reste only in Goddes worde the quietnesse of the conscience was not spoken of but whether that reste you spake of in the Apologie be found only in the Scriptures In your Apologie ye said yea in my Confutation I saie nay And now in your Defence your selfe also saie Nay Galat. 2. and so ye destroie what ye builded before and therby proue your selfe a preuaricatour asmuch to say a false hartlot For in that now ye coÌ„ueigh the matter from the Canonical Scriptures of the old and new TestameÌ„t vnto Gods word what is this but a secrete recantatioÌ„ of your former false tale If your said former tale were true and might be mainteined why do you so shifte your handes of it are you a shamed to be accoumpted a Recantour and yet recante in deede Who seeth not great diuersitie betwen Gods word and the written Scriptures These be more special that is more general By skipping from the writteÌ„ Scriptures to Gods worde you thought to set your selfe at hâ—â—re libertie And yet hauing taken your libertie as it were by breaking loose out of your chaine neuer so much as you seme to geue ouer your former saying and to recant so you proue not your later saying You allege S. Chrysostome saying In Gen. Ho. 2. Heb. 1. in Iob. 27. that God from the beginning spake 〈…〉 mâ—n by him selfe S. Paule that God in olde times spake mâ—ny waies and in sundrie sortes vnto the Fathers S. Hierome that the holy Scriptures be euerlasting though the wâ—â—ld shal haue an ende and that the thing which is promised by the holy Scriptures shal last for euer though the paper parchement and leaues of bookes shal be abolished Againe you allege S. Chrysostome saying 2. Cor. hom 18. that S. Paule calleth Preaching not written the Gospel But to what purpose al this How proueth this either that you auouched in your Apologie touching the setled rest of mannes harte to be founde only in the Canonical Scriptures of the old and new testament or which now you teache hauing reuoked your former doctrine that it is founde onely in Goddes worde Verely by ought that you haue said yet either in your Apologie or in your Defence you haue neither shewed where mannes harte shal finde the reste you spake of nor where we shal finde you so like a hunted foxe you starte from one thing to an other as it were from bushe to bushe from hole to hole So must they doo who seruing the Maister that you serue take vpon them to impugne the Catholique Doctrine and to defende Vntruthe Iewel Ibidem God him selfe in his ovvne person and presently spake vnto Abel c. Harding That would I confesse But he spake not to him by paper and incke And yet we are not now in worse case then the old fathers were And the word of God in their hartes whereof they could not doubte was euer much more cleere and plaine then that which is in our bookes whereof some men doubt many times Therefore we also in Christes Church haue as wel Gods word in our hartes as in our bookes whence also to wit out of our hartes we may resolue the doubtes which arise vpoÌ„ our bookes But let vs see this matter ripte vp more deeply Iewel Pag. 194. VVe speake not so precisely and nicely of Gods vvord vvritten in paper for so it is a corruptible creature and shal perish Harding Why then bind you vs in al cases to the written word and wil haue nothing to be beleued or done that is not written Iewel Pag. 195. Chrysostom saith Preaching not writteÌ„ Paul calleth the Gospel Homil. 18. in 2. Cor. Harding But we only haue preaching not written Preaching not vvritten for you wil haue nothing preached which is not also written Therefore we only haue the whole Gospel and you haue but one peece thereof Iewel Pag. 195. S. Antonie the Eremite vvas notably learned Aug. de Doctrinae Christ li. 1. in prologo and perfite in the scriptures Harding But without knowledge of letters as with S. Augustine your selfe must confesse This proueth that by the Scriptures the sense and meaning is vnderstanded and not the bare letter Now the meaning of the Scriptures not only tolerateth but conuinceth the vnbloudy Sacrifice of Christes body Transubstantiation praiers to the Saintes and praiers for the dead as diuers learned men haue declared at large Iewel The force and substance bothe of prayer and of meditation dependeth of reading Aug. de scalis paradisi .c. 11 Harding Not only of reading For then vnlearned persons should neither praie nor meditate nor haue Gods word Marke stil we denie not the written word but we say besides it there are vnwritten Verities Basil de Spiritu Sancto cap. 27. which thing you impudently denie Iewel Pag. 195. S. Basil reckeneth Traditions to be equal vvith the vvorde of God but that he vvrote those vvordes rather of zeale then of iudgement it 〈…〉 appeare bicause the traditions he nameth are forgotten euen in the Churche of Rome as not to kneele in the Churche vpon the sonnedaie Harding If bicause some Traditions be altered TraditioÌ„s or abolished they were not Gods word then the precepte of absteining from strangled meates Actor 15. is not Gods word bicause it is now abolished
when we desire to be holpen by his bloud representing the memorie of S. Thomas vnto Christe our Sauiour and as it were putting him in minde of his death suffered for his sake we desire to haue Gods grace the soner geuen vnto vs through that mercie which he shewed to the said S. Thomas Philip. 1. Scio quia hoc mihi prouenâ—et ad salutem per vestram orationem subministrationem spiritus Iesu Christi I know saith S. Paule that this thing shal helpe forwarde my saluation by your prayer and by the helpe of the spirite of Iesus Christe Prayer of good meÌ„ and Gods spirit ioyned together in healping vs. Here are ioyned together two thinges the praier of good menne and the helpe of the spirite of Christe They are both vttered by this syllable per by or through But what Is S. Paule become blasphemous bicause he ioyneth mennes prayers with Gods spirite No no. He meant that the prayer of menne might helpe him not of them selues but by Gods gift But the spirite of Christe was hable to help him of it selfe as being the spirite of God And yet those two helpes so far vnlike are put together in one sentence and expressed by one kinde of speache But it is not a phrase of speache whiche maketh the difference it is the harte of the faithful which distinguisheth al. Your wordes be faire M. Iewel but your harte vnwares to your selfe doth honour the Idol Caluine more then Christe Iesus For you are ashamed of Christes olde Churche and deformed spouse as you thinke But the trimme strompet of Caluins setting out pleaseth you right wel It is that fowle and blind harte of yours that shal condemne you and not letters or syllables whiche in al your bookes you hunt after Whatsoeuer our wordes be you maie assure your selfe our faith and harte putteth difference inough betwen S. Thomas Becket a good man and Christ Iesus God and man If it shal please you to conferre this praier touching S. Thomas with a praier that I shal anonne allege out of S. Ephem I truste you wil reuoke your rash iudgement wherein you condemne the Catholique Churche for this and the like praiers Iewel Pag. 312. You in your imagination of the Saintes of God haue made Idolles Harding It is you that haue made Idolles of the enemies of God to wit of Luther of Caluin of Peter Martyr your maister and of others the like As for our honour geuen to the Saintes it is no greater then the primitiue Church gaue to them that is that they heare vs in Christ and praie in great charitie for vs. And so did al the olde Fathers beleeue as being so taught of the Apostles S. Irenaeus so nigh vnto the Apostles S. Marie the virgiÌ„ is the aduocate of Eue. Irenaeus li. 5. doubted not to say that the Virgin Marie obeied God Vti virginis Euae Maria virgo fieret aduocata That the Virgin Marie should be made the aduocate of the virgin Eue. And yet doth he not make her equal thereby with Christe For our Ladie is in an other sense and sorte our aduocate then Christ is Christ by right may pleade for vs the Virgin Marie by grace may intreate for vs. S. Gregorie Nazianzene who praied him selfe to S. Basil being departed this life Gregorius in monodia Idem in laudem Cypriani Hilarius in psalm 124. Homil de 40 martyribus reporteth thus of S. Cyprian Virginem Mariam rogauit vt periclitanti virgini opem ferret He desired the Virgin Marie to helpe the Virgin which was in daunger S. Hilarie saith we haue no smal garrison in the Apostles and in other Saintes S. Basil speaking of the fortie Martyrs saith He that is pressed with any calamitie ad hos confugiat vt à malis liberetuâ— Let him flee to these that he may be deliuered from euil thinges hos oret let him praie vnto these c. S. Hieromes minde is wel knowen writing against Vigilantius Hom. 66. ad populuÌ„ Antioch S. Chrysostome saith that the Emperour the pride of his purple laid a syde stat Sanctis supplicaturus standeth to make his supplication to the Saintes that they make intercession for him to God S. Augustine sheweth it to be a commoditie De cura pro mort gerenda cap. 4. that Christian menne should be buried nigh to the Saintes that the frendes of the dead eisdeÌ„ Sanctis taÌ„quam patronis susceptos apud Dominum adinuandos orando commendent that the frendes of the dead may by making their prayer commende the dead as clientes to the same Saintes as to their patrones by them to finde helpe with God Theodorit De curatio graecarum affect li. 8 Theodoritus at large treateth of this mater saying that they whiche go on Pilgrimage praie vnto the Martyrs to be their companions on the waie not saith he that they make them Goddes but they praye vnto the Martyrs as being the menne of God He sheweth moreouer that after their returne some dedicated Images or figures of Eyes some of Handes some of feete made in siluer or golde S. Paulinus S. Leo S. Gregorie S. Bede and al the other holy and learned Fathers agree herein Iewel Pag. 313. VVhereas yee teache the people thus to praie vnto the blessed Virgine Monstra te esse Matrem commaund thy sonne vse thy motherly authoritie ouer him let him knovv thee to be his mother this you saie is no blasphemie but a spiritual dallying Novve verely this must needes be a blessed kinde of Diuinitie that can turne prayer into dallyance Harding You scoffe wel but what say you to my reason that the spouse in the Canticles dallieth in such sorte with Christe her spouse Why is the worde ieasted at and the reason let passe But syr I pray you who taught you to english Monstra te esse matrem CommauÌ„d thy Sonne where haue ye these wordes let him knowe thee to be his mother Monstrare is to shew you knowe The English of monstra te esse matrem Monstra te esse matrem is shew thy selfe to be a mother and it may wel be vnderstanded by relation made as wel towardes vs as towardes Christe Towardes him by nature towardes vs by affection But doo not the wordes next following sufficiently declare the mater Sumat per te preces qui pro nobis natus tulit esse tuus Shew thy selfe to be a mother let him take praiers by thee that is offer praiers vnto him who for our sakes was content to be thy sonne So that al this notwithstanding we may demaunde of you where it is written that we bid our Ladie to commaunde her sonne For whiche demaunde you scoffe at M. Cope without witte Pag. 313. or reason calling him One of my Beauperes of Louaine Why you should so cal him I know not nor your selfe I beleeue For Beaupere in frenche is a Father in lawe And neither I haue married his daughter nor he my mother
he proueth very sufficiently and copiously that simple Fornication is mortal sinne Alphonsus contra haeres li. 5. Coitus Defence pag. 362. But Alphonsus chargeth him with saying that to beleeue the Contrarie is not a point of Heresie And thereof M. Iewel in the Defence taketh holde geuing ouer al his other false holdes Let it be as Alphonsus saith Yet wil it not thereof follow that the Popes Canonistes or Diuines taught the people it is no sinne By Alphonsus whom M. Iewel allegeth this Doctor Martinus de Magistris saith two thinges That Fornication is deadly sinne and yet that to beleeue the contrarie Non sit haereticum is not heretical or a case of heresie The first he proueth substantially The second he proueth not sufficiently as it appeareth to Alphonsus The reason whereby he would proue it is this Quia testimonia scripturae sacrae non sunt expressa The varietie of meaning betuixt Martinus de magistris aÌ„d AlphoÌ„sus de Castro touching simple Fornication bicause the testimonies of the holy Scriptures are not expresse that is to saie bicause simple Fornication is not expressely so called And though it were so yet maie it otherwise be plainely as it is most plainely signified Now this question riseth betwen Martinus and Alphonsus whether to beleeue that Fornication is not mortal sinne be a case of Heresie or no. Alphonsus saith it is Martinus saith it is not And what if he say it be not a case of heresie so to beleeue yet it maâ— be a wicked opinion so to beleue and a more wicked thing to committe the crime which Martinus doth not only not denie but affirmeth and proueth very earnestly and that perteineth to the present purpose Euery false beleefe maketh not a case of heresie but whosoeuer stubbornely holdeth and mainteineth a false beleefe contrarie not onely to the bare letter but also to the sense of the Scripture specially if it be determined and published by the Churche is to be accompted an heretique How soeuer it be and whether Alphonsus impute that saying to Martinus de Magistris as erroneous or no Hitherto M. Iewel proueth not that the Popes Canonistes haue taught the people that Simple Fornication is no sinne Let vs see with what other testimonies he can proue it Iewel Pag. 360. Dist 34. Is qui. Thus it is noted in the Decrees Qui non habet vxorem loco illius Concubinam debet habere He that hath not a vvife in steede of her must haue a Concubine Harding Is it likely that any Christian euer wrote so It was neuer so written and that M. Iewel him selfe knew wel ynough Concil Tolet an 1. cap. 17. For he confesseth the printed booke that so reporteth to be a false copie Wherefore then would he allege it Like wil to like False manners seeke to be defended by false hed For of true dealing they can procure them selfe no reliefe But seâ— Reader what pleasure he hath in Vntruthe Iewel Pag. 360. Ye vvil saie there is errour in the prints Be it so yet tâ—â—◠〈…〉 extant iâ— many Copies And it is vvel agreable to your common prâ—â—tise For the best that you can make of the same place is this Is qui non habet Vxorem et pro Vxore Concubinam habet à Communione non repellatur He that hath no vvife and in steede of a vvise hath a Concubine let him not be remoued from the Communion Harding What shame is it to allege the errour of a false booke that hath either crepte in by the negligence or put in by the malice of the printers Compositour The most and truest Copies haue otherwise and that could you not be ignorant of directing the Reader by your cotations vnto Gratian and vnto the first Toletan Councel from whence the testimonie is taken out And what saie you sir doth not this place proue that the popes Canonistes teache Simple Fornication to be no sinne For this is the thing whiche you haue taken vpon you to proue If you faile in proufe thereof you maie not blame vs if we accompte you for a Lyer and a sclaunderer O saie you lo here a man is allowed to haue a Concubine For in as much as he is not to be repelled from the Communion that hath a concubine The keper of a coÌ„cubine not repelled from the coÌ„munion and yet simple fornication not allovved by the CouÌ„cel of Toledo how is not a man allowed to keepe a Concubine And shal we not saie that they which teache this doctrine teache Simple Fornication to be no sinne If al this were graunted you yet how truly haue you burdened the Canonistes with this Doctrine For these wordes you know be not the wordes of the Canonistes but the wordes of the first CouÌ„cel of Toledo that was aboue a thousand yeres ago Here is good geare M. Iewel for you to iuggle withal And how can it be but that your selfe doo knowe that you doo impudently You peruerte the texte you misconster it you leaue out that goeth before and 〈…〉 followeth immediatly after Bicause you know this place might serue your purpose to deceiue the vnlearned who can not espie your falsehed you thought ye might be bolde as you are in many other places And so without blusshing you sclaunder Christes Churche burdening it with the allowance and maintenance of Concubines You plaie like a shrewde boye of the Grammar schoole who hauing a Theme appointed him by his Maister to dilate and write vpon purleth and gathereth out of euery booke as manie sentences as he findeth to haue one worde of his Theme or sounding towarde his Theme So haue you here or your Coadiutor done to finde somewhat in the writinges of the Catholikes that might seme to allowe simple Fornication and the keping of Concubines And here ye bring vs forth a peece of a Canon concluded in the first Councel of Toledo But in good sooth it maketh asmuche for your purpose as that sentence Diuinum auxilium maneat semper nobiscum made for his purpose that being among others demaunded a prety sentence concerning Wine after al had said their sentences alleged this for his parte bicause in the worde Diuinum the first syllable taken awaye vvhat is meant by a coÌ„cubin in the couÌ„cel of Toledo in the Ciuile and CanoÌ„ lavv and other vvhere there is Vinum which signifieth Wine In much like sorte you haue done here dissembling the Circumstance of the place and omitting the Chapter that in Gratian goeth immediatly before In which Chapter he declareth what in that place and certaine other there by him alleged is meant by a Concubine saying Concubina autem hîc intelligitur quae cessantibus legalibus instrumentis vnita est coniugali affectu ascistitur Hanc coniugem facit affectus Dist 34. Omnibus CoÌ„cubin Concubinam verò lex nominat By a Concubine here to witte in certaine Canons alleged in the former Distinction 33. is vnderstanded such a woman as is coupled
Episcopus But whether he beareth that name of the one or of the other it maketh no great matter If it be so it remaineth that you can tel vs in what parte of the worlde whether in Asia in Aphrica or in Europa or in the new founde landes there be any place of that name I thinke you must be faine to looke ouer al the Geographical tables and bookes you haue and borrowe some of your felowes too and put on your spectales of the best sight and yet for al that I warrant you not finde it except it be in Vtopia Wel M. Iewel that you maie vnderstande that the more occasion you geue me to seeke the more I finde matter of Vntruthe and ignorance to charge you withal I tel you in deede that you haue named Ioannes Camotensis in steede of Ioannes Carnotensis if you haue respecte to his Bishoprike Ioannes Camotensis must be Ioānes Sarisburiensis vvho vvas Bishop of Chartres in France and thereof in Latine called Carnotensis Defence pag. 613. But if you wil haue his Countrie signified then must you cal him Ioannes Salesberiensis or Sarisburiensis choose whether as you haue done Pag. 132. I might saie that this Ioannes Sarisburiensis was a Bishop in al respectes farre better to vse your owne wordes not then Leontius Hippolytus or Clemens as it liketh you to skoffe at those learned and blessed Bishoppes but then Iohn Iewel of Sarisburie if you naming your selfe Iohn of Sarisburie could iustly be accompted any Bishop at al. But betwen a Bishop and no Bishop in this behalfe there can be no comparison This is not the first time that you haue alleged your witnesses by a blinde gheasse hearesaie or reporte not hauing seene their bookes nor knowing what the Authours were You can saie much by rote and prou◠litle by skil as in many other places but here moste euidently it appeareth For if you had knowen that your Ioannes Camotensis is the selfe same Ioannes Sarisburiensis otherwise named Carnotensis for that he was in his time Bishop of Chartres in Fraunce Pag. 132. named Carnotum in Latine whiche you haue alleged before out of his woorke entitled Polycraticon but neuer declaring out of what booke thereof being eight bookes in the whole or what Chapter bicause yee neuer readde the place in the Authour him selfe but receiued it by the waie of almes of frier Bale Flacius Illyricus or some suche other if I saie you had knowen so muche as you might if you had taken the paine to peruse the Polycration your selfe you would neuer haue made so muche a doo about so smal a matter Now for your better instruction and fuller satisfaction maie it please you to vnderstand that he whiche is misnamed in Epitome Bibliothecae Gesneri Ioannes Camotensis is in Partitionibus eiusdem Gesneri tituli 5. fol. 95. rightly called Ioannes Carnotensis And that your Ioannes Camotensis is by you blindly mistaken for Ioannes Carnotensis it euidently appeareth by the sentences alleged by your owne Necromantical Doctor Cornelius Agrippa and by an other of the Spritish sort of your gospel Paulus Scalichius in his railing Libel De Choraea Monachorum Paul Scalichius and by lying Illyricus in Catalogo testium veritatis which are adscribed by Baudy Bale 2. Centur. Scriptorum Britanniae pag. 212. too Ioannes Carnotensis out of his Polycraticon And in deed they are there to be founde albeit not to that purpose that al the packe of your holy brethren haue vntruely alleged them for And therefore neuer a one of you al hath quoted either number of the booke or Chapter where any of those sentences are to be founde lest your falsehed might haue benne espied and that by reading the whole discourse of the places your euil purpose should haue benne nothing furthered but much hindred But if it wil please either you or the Reader to peruse the 16. chapter of the 5. booke and the 24. of the 6. booke of the sayd Polycraticon you for your parte shal haue occasion to vnderstand your errour and folie and the Reader for his parte not to be deceiued with your blinde reporte Pag. 51. Cusanus sovvly and ignorantly belied of M. Iew. You beare your Reader in hand pag. 51. that Nicolaus Cusanus wrote a booke entituled de Auctoritate Ecclesiae Concilij supra contra Scripturam Of the Authoritie of the Churche and Councel aboue and against the Scripture And as though you had seene the booke and wel perused it you referre your Reader thereunto in 14. mo places of this your pretensed Defence as it shal appeare to him A false forged booke odiously attributed by M. Ievv to Cardinal Cusanus in xv Sundri◠places that wil take the paines to turne to these pages here truely quoted 53. 55. 78. 157. 331. 438. 439. 474. 558. 593. 665. 674. 704. 724. Now M. Iewel notwithstanding al these quotations of yours if you be hable to shewe vs any booke of Cusanus so entituled either in print or in autenticke written hande I wil saie that you wil proue your selfe a truer man then euer I tooke you to be But bicause this maie litle moue you I wil more adde on the contrary side if you be not hable to shewe the same after so many allegations out thereof it wil consequently folowe that you are a shamelesse man I might saie a false harlot If a man were disposed to dally with you in a matter most certaine as you vse to doo with others when you thinke you haue gotten any smal shadowe of some counterfeit aduantage for an vndoubted example whereof I referre the readers to the page 414. he might perchaunce dash you quite out of countenance and deface you for euer yea euen before your frendes and the flattering vpholders of your dooinges which would greeue you at the harte Now might one chalenge you and saie M. Iewel if you be hable to shew any booke or halfe booke oration or epistle or any litle pamphlet whereunto Cusanus hath geuen this title then wil the Catholiques graunt you more then euer you were hable to gete yet at their handes If you haue al the bookes in your studie either of your owne or of other menne that you allege then bring the booke with this title forth and you shal discharge your selfe of a most impudent lie and sclaunder And if you be hable so to doo then I praie you let it be proclaimed by you with your booke in your hand at Powles crosse as you haue done at other times to your worship forsooth that al the worlde maie beare witnesse thereof Verely M. Iewel it appeareth that you haue readde more then you vnderstand or at least then you haue liste to vnderstand and yet you allege more then euer you readde in the bookes whereunto you referre vs as it maie wel be proued by this present example and many other the like You maie beshrewe him to whom you gaue so light credite herein Couet not praise by