articles and decrees imposed vpon you to be obserued on paine of excommunication and further penalties So Christ alone is not your foundation but his seruants also you ar to whom you obey 2. Your builders are your preaching ministers but I deny them to be Gods builders let them shew when God designed them as he did Bezaleel Aholia'â— to make his sanctuary let them shew by the word their office and calling as the Apostle Paul of whome mention is made in the place you allege 1 Cor 3 10. did â—n all his Epistles Otherwise not all that offer themselues to build may be admitted for you know how it is written It is not for you and for vs to build the howse vnto our God Ezra 4.3 In most of your parish assemblies you haue but one preaching minister and so but one builder and he will be a good while in building the house and if he be taken away as many are then your church wanteth one of the 4 essent all things In many parishes there be vnpreaching ministers your church maketh them builders also though you doe not and vnto such if we were among you should we be constreyned to submit our soules The Bishops are master builders in all your churches they command and control you their inferior Priests if you build not by their line they throw down quicklie all your building and thrust the builders out of dores These are like the hornes that Zacharie saw which scattered Iudah so that a man darst not lift vp his head but your preaching ministers are not like the carpenters that came to fray them away How great a jarr there is between your builders we all doe know and long it wil be ere they agree togither to build Gods house or the work be finished for Christ to dwel in when the master workmen work all awry and when as you complained to the Parliament the walls of Sion lie euen with the ground 3. The instrument of building is the word of God as you allege Eph. 2.20 deliuered by the Prophets and Apostles and Christ himselfe But your builders vse not this instrument aright in doctrine or practise they new not here with the rough stone and knotty timber they reform not the profain rebellious people neither haue they power in their armes to cut off any one wicked man for the axe of excommunication is in the Bishops hand alone and his commissaries he hath the keyes to open shut the dores of your Church the parish priest hath perhaps a weeding hook and may suspend from the sacrament a while by vertue of his service-service-book but the greatest wound that he can make herewith the Bishop or his substitute will quickly heal Again you haue besides the Bible Apocripha bookes commanded by law to be read in your church also that other instrument called the seruice book and with this tool your best minâ—sters build vp your church and the reading hereof doth now much edifie in al your parishes though the dayes hauee been when you could say that in all the order of your seruice there was no edification but confusion And who put this instrument into your ministers hands Christ in his testament appoynted none such Your church hath also Homily books to build withall and many edifying canons and ceremonies such tools the Prelâ—es haue allowed for your building even the instruments of the foolish sheâ—heard Za. 11 15.16 if you will not beleeu me beleeu your selus which heretofore haue complayned and written thus No preacher may without great danger of the law vtter all the truth comprised in the book of God It is so circumscribed and wrapt within the compasse of such statutes such penalties such iniunctions such advertisements such articles such canons such sober caueats and such manifold pamphlets that in manner it doth but peep out from behind the skreen The lawes of the land the book of common prayer the Queens iniunctions the Commissioners aduertisements the Bishops canons Linwoods provincials euery Bishops articles in his dioces my Lord of Canterburies sober â—aueats his licences to preachers and his high court of prerogatiue or graue fatherly faculties these to-gither or the worst of them as some of them be too bad may not be broken or offended against but with more danger then to offend against the bible To the subscribing subscribing agayn thâ— third subscribing are requâ—red for these preachers others are indited are fined ar prisoned are excommunicated are banished and haue worse things threatned them And the Bible that must haue no further scope then by these it is assigned Is this to professe Gods word Is this a reformation c. Thus haue we your own confessioÌ„ what manner of instruments your church is builded with and all men may see what small cause you haue to boast of the word of God amongst you The matter of the building is people ioyned togither in the profession of the Gospell And what manner of people are ioyned togither in your church are there not all sorts of profane wicked and irreligious persons as wel as religious and men of better life and where find you in the scriptures such matter for Gods howse The texts by you alleged teach farr otherweise for the Church of Corinth were saincts by calling even called of God unto the fellowship of his sonne Iesus Christ. 1 Cor 1 2 9 and the Apostle neuer sayd to any profane or confused people ye are Gods husbandry Gods building So for the other text if you had minded eyther that which is before or after it might haue stayed you from applying it to your church For the Apostle writing to the Saincts not to the profane which were at Ephesus sayth Now yâ— are no more strangers and forreners but citizens with the saincts and of the how should of God and after he sheweth how in Christ all the bulding coupled togither groweth vnto an holy temple in the Lord. But neyther are your people saints by calling neyther can you say of your church of England that all the bulding of all the parishes coupled togither groweth to an holy Temple in the Lord for your self here defend not all but the best onâ—ly And we know well that the mâ—ltitudes of profane wicked persons and miscreants meer strangers and forreners are of the matter of your church and are buâ—lded in and with the same if the word and sacraments doe buâ—ld among you even the vilest of theâ— when they goe to the gibbet as pleasantly as Agag did to his death Now mind with your selâ—es if God haue commanded to build his house with the fine Ceder and Sittim trees you take the thornes and briars of the wildernes or wild figtrees of the playn whether Christ who is faithfull to him that hath appoynted him even as Moses was in all his house when he shall take a view of all your work will allow of
church because a great part of his word and scriptures and of the graces of his spirit are here neuer spoken nor heard nor suffred to be vttered and contrariweise much of mans word and writing is brought in as Aprocrypha books made of old the Seruice and homily books made of late in which also there be manifest errourâ— lâ—es contradictions to the holy scriptures idolatrous and and superstâ—tious doctrines rites ceremonses c. taught vnto and obserued by th' priests people an idle soul-murthering ministry maynteyned Chrâ—sts spirituall graces giuen for teaching and building vp his church quenched with other like evils The proof of this may be seen in their communioÌ„ book whose Kalender alotteth what is to be read dayly and yerely in all their Assemblies where many chapters of the Bible are wholly and perpetually excluded many Apocrypha chapters read as holy scriptures And by the written homilies the graces and vtterance of Gods spirit are extinguished that mans erroneus writing may come in place Besides this all preaching Ministers so limitted and restreyned in their doctrine that they may not preach against any sinn by publick authority establâ—shed and if they doe they are silenced excommunicated c. this indignity and dishonour Christ will not suffer at mans hands to haue his word and mans word matched together his spirit spirit truth restreyned he wil be Prophet aloÌ„e or not at al. as they that with the trâ—e God and his true worship had other Gods also other worships are sayd in scripture to forsake the true God and to bâ— without him so they that with the true Prophet and doctor Christ and his doctrine haue other also may rightly be sayd to haue forsaken him and to be wâ—thout him For when men set their thresholds by the Lords and their posts by his they defile his holy name with their abominations and in vayne they worship him that teach such doctrines as be precepts of men Moreover thiâ— Church wanteth part and communion with Christ in that propheticall office which he hath imparted to his peoâ—le namely power and freedom to witnes professe practise and hold forth the word of life and all that Christ hath commanded to admonish reproue one another for sinne and transgression and eyther if they repent to forgiue them or if they repent not to follow them further vnto the church and even to excommunication for their obstinate violating Gods law That they haue not power or freedome to professe and practise the truth of the Gospel in these things appeareth by their seruile subiection to the hierarchie lawes and canons which are amongst them whereby they are restreyned from professing and practising any further truth then is by law establâ—shed among them but must obey follow all that their spirituall Lords the Bishops doe inioyne them and may not speake against or reproue any of the abominatioÌ„s that ar in their church worship Ministery ceremonies c. neyther haue power to deal according to that rule of Christ Mat. 18 15. c for any sinne be it never so horrible and manifest but must leaue it to the censure of the Prelate or hiâ— Commissarie who at his pleasure buyeth and selleth the sins and soules of men This bondage the people should not be in if they had and inioyned the word of God which is the truth for that truth would make them free that they should not in this sort be seruants of men But now not haâ—ing power to professe much lesse to practise the truth nor to reproue the euils that reign among them not hauing the free vse of Gods word in priuate nor the right and lawfull Ministery or vse therof in publick they cannot be sayd to haue Christ for their Prophet and Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God EVery true Church of God hath Christ for the Priest and Sacrificer of the sâ—me for he onely is the high Priest of our profession and to him it was sworne thou art a Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedek Heb 3 1 5.5 6 10 9 11. c. But the Church of England hath not Christ for the Priest or sacrificer of the sâ—me Because the gifts and sacrifices which it offreth vnto God are not presented and offred vnto him by Christ neyther is this church reconciled reconciled vnto God by him And first the worship and seruice which they performe vnto God their prayers prayses and confeâ—sions which now are Christâ—an mens sacrifices are not offred and sanctified by Christ because they are false and idâ—lâ—trous wherewith Christ hath no communion For â—nstead of true spirâ—tuall prayer and prayses the fruits of Gods spirit in his â—eoâ—le they read a written leiturgie translated out of the Masse book and accordâ—ng as they are stinted in the same they speak obserâ—ing also the many Popish ordinances râ—tes and ceremonies commanded in the same as their holy and festivall dayes holy eues and fasting dâ—yes absolutioÌ„ of sinns by their priests confirmatioÌ„ of Baptisme by theâ—r Prelates profanation of the Sacraments by priâ—ate administration and howsling with them by gossips by idolatrous signes and gestures of croâ—â—e kneeling c. also marying by the Priest with signe of the ring churching of womeÌ„ burial of the dead readâ—ng curses or comminations in stead of discipline besides the sundry errours and vntruthes in that book vayn repetâ—tions in their prayers and the like All which being commanded and vsed dayly by law of their church without ground from Gods word which approueth none of these idolatries but condemneth them are not sanctified by Christ nor presented vnto God hiâ— Father For he will not offer the idol sacrifices neyther will God accept such things as by his law he teacheth all men to abhorr Secondly whereas the bodyes and sowles of men are also spiritual and liâ—ing sacrifices and the persons offred in the Church by the Ministeâ—y of the Gospel should be as the holy flâ—ck as the flock of Ierusalem in their solemne feasts that so the oblation of them might be acceptable being sanctified by the holy Ghost the people offred in this church are a confuse vnsanctified mâ—ltitude not separated from the world as before in the first argument is shewed and many of them so wicked even by the confeâ—sion of their own ministers and in every honest mans conscience as they neyther deseru to be layd on Gods alter nor to be touched of any true Israelite in such respect Yet ar they by the Priests of this church offred dayly vnto God in their administration and blessed in his name Yea the precious sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ remembred and reâ—resented by bread and wine at his supper is prostitutâ—â— as if it were an vnholy thing to the prophane and wicked in this church which being vnworthy receiuers are
you vs of this as a consideratioÌ„ to reduce us to your church when we because such Atheists wicked ar coÌ„trary to Gods wil suffred among you doe separate from your Church 3. Agayn who be those godly ministers and people you mean If such as are called Puritans they haue I suppose moe adversaries theâ— freinds in your church yea the publick state alwes and canons of your church are against them and all that know the truth of God and theâ—r estate aright haue just cause to blame them for theâ—r long halting and dissembling If the Prelates be those godly minâ—sters they haue in regard of their vnlawfull places and proceedings many good people for their aduersaries both within and without the land and your selues also which suffer for sâ—paration in your church By neither of these two contrary factions among you ar men ordinarily conuerted unto Christ both sorts setting your selues against the true way of Chrâ—st for gathering and gouernmenâ— of the Church and worship of God and so do hinder mens saluation and deserâ—e to be not approued but reproued in the name of the Lord. The 5. Consideration 5. GOD hath giuen witnâ—â— for the truth of our ministerie by the vndoubted tâ—stimony of his gracious presence and approbation of the same by his gifts of 1. sanctifiâ—ation 2 knowledge 3 spirit of discerning 4. of vtterance 5 of power and authority in teaching 6 effectuall and ordinarie â—alling and begetting to the faiâ—h of God and bringing them from darknâ—s to light from the old man to the nâ—w from the flâ—sh vnto the spirit which ministery of ours begat you â—lso if ever you were truâ—y bâ—gotten in the spirit by Gods mâ—rcie hath begotten me other hâ—s vnworthy seruants Answer 1. THe Papists will say as much as all this and more too if words will serâ—eâ— for the ministery of their church they boast of theâ—r Friers Iesuâ—ts holines knowledge utterance authority in teaching and their maruelous effects in conuerting to Christianity the Indians other â—eâ—thens all ouer the world Yea what religeon glorieth not in tâ—e sanctitie gifts and effects of their ministerie But Gods word must try all 2. The ministerie of â—our Church being Archbishops L. Bishops Deanes Archdeacons c Priests and Deacons as is to be seen in the books statutes and canons of your church you brâ—ng not here any one word of God or text of scriptures which are his testimonies to witnes for the truth of your ministery and this is indeed worthy to be considered of vs of al that shall read your Considerations 3. Your own brethren heretofore confessed and complayned to the Parliament that you lack in England a right ministery of God that the ministers are neithâ—r proued elected called nor ordeyned according to Gods word This testimonie being true how then doth God giue witnes for the truth of your ministery 4. The witnesâ—es that you bring if they be examined wil say little ar nothing to this purpose For 1. The gift of santification is a common note of Christianity 1. Thes. 4.3 1 Pet. 2.9 and therefore no speciall note of a ministery This was Korahs argument when he would haue vsurped the Priesthood All the congregation is holy euery one of them why may they not therefore be Prâ—ests Num. 16.3.10 But what saith the scripture No man taketh thâ—â— honour to himselfe but he that is called of God as Aaron was Heb. 5.4 2.3 The second and third 2 knowledge 3 of the spirit of discerning are also generall for the whole church and not speciall for the ministerie Rom. 15.14 Phil. 1.10 Yea some in the flock may have a greater measure both of sanctification and of knowledge then the Pastor or teacher or any Officer It cannot be denied but Barsabas had knowledge as wel as Matthias yet was he not therefore an Apostle Act. 1.23.26 and they whose genealogies could not be found had knowledge as wel as the other Prâ—ests yet were they not therâ—fore kept in the Priesthood Ezra 2.62 Boast not you therefore of your knowledge but shew vs yoâ—r genealogies in the scriptâ—res There be a great many in your ministerie called dumb Priestâ— whâ—ch are but bare readers by whose meanes many people perish for want of knowledge these testimonâ—es will be dumb for them yet your â—â—urch proclaymeth them to be â—rue ministers Your best ministerâ— of whose knowledge you boast shew themseluâ—â— ignorant or worse in the 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 â—lanting of a church whâ—les they will haue it as their â—ractise proueth with commixâ—â—re of al form without separation whereaâ— they cannot shew any true church since the beginning of the world but was of a separaâ—ed people Gen. 61.2 12 1. Lâ—v 20.23.24 Ezr. 6 21. Act. 2 40.41 19 9. c. 4. 5. The fowrth and fift 4. vttâ—rance with 5 power authority in teaching are needfull in such as are ministers but no neceâ—sarie proof of a true ministerie For had not the false Apostles and Prophets utterance and power that preached wâ—th eloquence and wisdom of words dâ—sgracing the Apostles and Prophets of the Lord 2 Cor. 10.10 11.13.15 1. Kin. 22. â—4 Ier. 23.31 28.1.2.10 11. 2 Tim. 3.8 Your ministers many preach not at al many preach to mayntain the pompous prelacie laudable ceremonies of your Church and they that prâ—ach best shew little power or authority For how many yeers haue they been preaching for Discipline and against some corruptionâ— of your church yet nothing preuailed but are further now at last then they were at the first Who knoweth not that the prelates haue closed vp the mouthes of many Ministers that the prophesie of Esaias is verified vpon them Isa. 56.10 and yet you boast of theâ—r utterance auâ—hority in teaching But lamentable ministers are they â—ll and the best of them may be seen to be but briers and to haue betrayed the authority of Christ For when they took the Order of Priesthood as they call it they solemnly promised euen before the Lord and by his help that they would giue their faithfull diligence alwayes so to minister the doctrine and sacraments and the discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commanded as this realm hath receiued the same according to the commandements of God so that they mought teach the people committed to their care and charge wâ—th all diligence to keep obseruâ— the same They promised also reuerently to obey their ordinary other chief ministers is to whom the gouernmeÌ„t charg is commited ouâ—r them following with a glad mind and will their godly admoniâ—ion and submitting theÌ„seluâ—â— to their godly juâ—gement Yet your forward preachers as they are esteemed doe not minister the doctrine sacraments and discipline of Christ as thâ— Lord hath commanded but sue and wait for authority from the Magâ—strate to haue that whâ—ch they count the true discipline of Christ erected in theâ—r parishes which because the ciuill Magistrate doeth not they practise
you further bring aginst vs forreyn churches and speciall persons the chiefest lights of this age first mind whither this be not â—lso â— ground of Popery so to presse humane authority and whether the Papists cannot for many of theâ—r heresies allege the ancient fathers the chiefests lights of their ages whome your selues I suppose will not deny but to be spirituall seing their testâ—monies are often alleged by your church in pulpits and in print Secondly this your dealing is such as both the better sort of the late Fathers as Augustine for example who was of mâ—nde that counsels Bishops c. ought not to be obiected for triall of controuersies but the holy scriptures onely and the very superstitious Popelings themselues haue condemned saying that we are rather to beleeu â—ne priuatâ— faithfull man then a whol Councel and the Pope himselfe if a man haue better aâ—thorety reason on his side Thirdly your obiection and pleading against vs is much like as if the Iewes should haue obiected against Christianity thus It is not needfull to saluation to beleeu that Iesus who was crucâ—fied is the Christ for then it would be cleerly set down in scripture to the vnderstanding of the spirituall Dan 12 10 Prou 8 9 but that it is not for the thousands of priests and people of Israel Gods own people among whom are the chiefest lights of this age the Rabbines expounders of the law c. which are vndoubtedly spirituâ—ll are of contrary judgment to you his disciples Iob 7 47 48 49.52 Fourthly as I haue before answered forreyn churches and the lights in them haue cleerly seen the things we stand for and doe asseâ—t with vs touching separation from Antichristianisme gathering into and walking in a holy communion of Saincts and other poynts of greatest moment between you and vs. as their Harmony of Confessions besides other particular books many doe testify If you obiect their particular judgment of your churches estate I answer that is not needfull to saluation therefore they may misse in it and yet be spirituall for if men iâ— their own churches profesâ—e and walke in the truth so farr as God giues them to see and thinke better of other churches then they doe deserue such errors even the most spirituall are subiect vnto It was cleerly revealed in scriptures that the Gentiles should be called vnder the Gospell Deut 32.43 Gen. 12 3 Psal. 67. 117 Isa. 11.10 Chrâ—st â—imself plainly confirmed and commanded it Mat 28.19 Iohn 10 16 Act 1 8. Yet the Apostle Peter himselfe and many other spirituall men perceiued it not till in more speciall and particular weise it was to them reuealed Act. 10.14 28 34 3â— 11 2 â— 18. As Peter and many other godly then fayled in esteeming worse of the Gentiles then they should so learned and godly men now may fayl in esteeming better of your estâ—tâ— then it doth deseruâ— The 5. Argument WHatsoeuer church is the mother of the faithfull is a true visible church but the best of our assemblies are c. Ergo true visible churches The preposition is true because that regeneration and new birth is onely ordirarily wrought by the word preached Rom 10.8.17 Iam. 1.18 1 Pet. 1 23. which is onely and ordinarily found in the visible Church Gal 5 26. 1 Iohn â— 5. The assumption is true because many are ordinarily new borne in our best assemblies by the ordinance of preaching in publick vse and force as appeareth by Mr Iohnsons foresayd confession as also by the meanes of the causes and meanes ordeyned by God to beget faith in the hearers and efficacie thereof Esa. 55 11 Rom. 10.17 and lastly â—y the infallible effects of faith and fruits of the spirit appearing in the true members of our best assemblies Gal. 5 6 22. Answer HEre you seem to bring a new argument though it be but the old in a new coat for take away this mantel wherewith your Major is clothed The mother of the faithfull and all the rest wil be but regeneration and new birth wrought as you say by the preaching in your best assemblies Which things we heard in your third argument and there refuted As you here vrge them agayn I further answer first to your proposition Whatsoever church say you is the mother of the faithfull is a true visible church But Israel say I in her idolatrous estate was the mother of the faithfull yet was she not in that estate a true visible church therfore your proposition is not true That Israel then was the mother of the faithfull appeareth by the words of the Lord Plead with your mother Hos 2 2 That they which were willed thus to plead were the faithfull appereth by theâ—r names Ammi Ruhamah that is My people and she that hath obteyned mercy That yet notwithstanding this mother was not a true visible church appeareth by the Plea to be made against her She is not my wife neyther am I her husbaÌ„d her estate being as elsewhere is sayd without the true God and her children that continewed in her idolatrie should obteyn no mercy Thus you see a church may be sayd to be the mother of the faithfull and yet not be a true Church of God You would confirme the proposition to be true because regeneration and new birth is ordinarily wrought by the word preached which is one lie and ordinarily found in the visible church I answer the word preached is to be found also in the false church as among Papists Anabaptists Anabaptists c. as ordinarie if not more ordinarie then â—n many of youâ— assemblies and although there be not such or so many truthes â—aught among them as are among you yet the word that is taught hath effect for sanctâ—fication of life in as great measure as ordinarâ—ly appeareth in your Church of Engl. where so much profannes reigneth as all men see and know The church of Rome is as your selues prâ—feâ—â—e a falâ—e church yet doubt I not neyther doe I thinke you doubt but sundrie children haue been borne vnto God by that harlot The church of Enâ—land it as we professe a false church your Ministery also falâ—e yet God which brought light out of darknesse hath brought forth I doâ—bt not and saued many of his dear châ—ldren among you But let not thiâ— embolden the rest to continew with you in your false estâ—te least they finde no mercy with the Lord because they be children of fornications To your assumption then I answer as you first set it down I graunt it yet will not your conclusion follow for it may be a mother of the faithfull and yet no true visible church for the reason foreshewed But as you afterward explain your selfe saying the assumption is true because many aâ—e ordinarily new borne c. I deny it thus to be true because neyther is a new birth ordinarily to be had among you neither haue you Gods ordinance of preaching in publick vse and
himself and the Conformists of farr greater esteem in this church then the Reformists Whether this be not a playne schisme and Mr Bern a factious person thus to carry hâ—mselfe in a church let himselfe say as also whether he be not fâ—r this ipso â—acto excommâ—nicated by force of theâ—r own Canon which sayth Whosoeuer shall hereafter separate themselues from the Communion of Saincts as it is approued by the Apostles rules in the Church of England and combine themselues together in a new brotherhood accounting the Christiâ—ns who are conformable to the doctrine gouernments rites and ceremonies of the church of England to be profane and vnmeet for them to ioyne with in Christian profession let them be excommunicated ipso facto and not restored but by the Archbishop after their repentance and publick reuocation of such their wicked errors Into like danger doth he come by Canon 11 and 12. The il meanes by which our cause is mainteyned he makeâ—h to be strange expositiâ—n of scripture c. First Mr Bern. here walketh still in the Papists steps who obiect the like vnto the Protestants Let an indifferent reader say they peruse the learnedst book of these reformers and he shall see in them false allegations of Fathers corruptions of scriptures fathers and councels c. Secâ—â—dly I answer our expositions may seeme strange to such as are themselues strangers from God but the Godly wise can discerne to whom if they haue read our books I leane the iudging of this probability Now thâ—s old calumniatioÌ„ which SataÌ„ layd vpoÌ„ the Sainct how truly Mr Bâ—rn hath layd vpon vs let his proofs shew which are in these two particulars First that one of us sayth All the truth is not taught in the Church of Eâ—gland and to proue this Act. 20 21. is cited Which one of vs thus citeth Act. 20 and where Mr Bern. nameth not Good cause we haue to suspect his faithfulnes for in his book he chargeth vs with some errors which we hold not as after shall appear And he that would so iniury the whole what may we think he wâ—ll doe for a part I suppose therefore the party cited that scripture to proue the whole truth ought to be taught which because it may be questioned whether it be needfull at all times therefore the Apostles example is brought As for the Priests of England 〈◊〉 they preach not the whole truth is proued by their dayly practise who balk many truthes touching the church ministery worship governmenâ— c. as all that obserue their doctrines know very well It is proued â—lso by the lawes and canons of their church which excommunicate â—ll such as shall by the truth reproue the falsehoods and abominations that are among them as before in this treatise is shewed And Mr Bern. is very silly if he exspect any scriptures to proue what is now taught in his church Furthermore if it be granted him that Act. 20. were by some one of vs alleged for the purpose he pretendâ—th yet it is no more lâ—kelihood that our cause is evill then that his brethrens cause and plea against vs is evill for they without all doubt doe allege scriptures for to proue things done in Engl which it is not posible by the scripturs for to shew See before in this book pag. 43. c 44. But what speak I of others Mr Bern himsefe is fayn to vse such colours els would the glory of his church soon fade for in the 48 page of his book he allegeth God for witnes that they are his people 1 by giuing them his word Psa 147.19 20. 2 by his effectuall working thereby Ier 22 22 therefore there is the voyce of the sonne of God Ioh. 5.25 c. If these be found and sufficient proofs that England hath Gods word because Israel had it and so in the rest then why may not men allege like Scriptures and proofs against them saying They are stayned with their own works and goe a whoring with their own inuentions Psal. 106 39. from the Prophets of Ierusalem is hyprocrisie gone forth into all the Land Ier. 23.15 I haue not sent these Prophets sayth the Lord yet they ran c. Ier. 23.21 and the like So then Mr Bern. must eyther bring better reasons for himselfe or els he may blush to blame others for that wherein himself is more faulty then they if they be faulty at all The other particular which he specifieth is that places setting forth the inuisible church c. we bring to set forth the visible church by as namely 1. Pet. 2.9 10. But Mr Bern. shewes his reader no reason at all why that Scripture must be vnderstood of the inuisible church as he Sayth and it is an easie matter for him to find faults without reasoÌ„ in any maÌ„s writing That place of Peter as the wise reader may perceiue Speaketh of and to the visible or Sensible church for th' Apostle wrote to the visible christians the strangers that then dwelt in Pontus Galatia c. and this which he speaketh to them in Chap· 2 9.10 is as Moses of old spake to the visible church of Israel Exod. 19 6. Againe he mentioneth the end of their calling to this dignity vidz to shew forth the vertues of him that had called them out of darknes into his maruelous light which whether it appertaynes not to the visible church I leaue it for euery true member thereof to iudge And such as these are the exceptions that D. Allison to whome he referreth us tooke heretofore which because they are vnworthy a Dr. of Diuinity we haue though best to passe by as vnworthy of reply till further occasion The 4. likelihood is that we haue not the approbation of any reformed churches Churches for our cause This is much like his first probability before answered and seemeth to be a mayn propp to vphold the church of England which loue to make flesh their arme The reader may see this poynt thrise vrged before in this book and thrise answered I referr him also to our Letters vnto Mr Iunius whome Mr Bern. mentioneth finally to the Apologie of the church of England where themselues say vnto the like obiections of the Papists thâ— truth of the Gospel of Iesus Christ dependeth not upon councels add also nor vpon Churches nor as S. Paul sayth vpon the iudgements of mortall creatures The 5. is the condemnation of this way by the Diuines of England both liuing and dead c. But this is no other likelihood then it is like Mr Bern. if he had then liued would haue alleged against Christ himselfe when the learned Priests Rabbines and Diuines of Israel condemned his way and doctrine Ioh. 7.48.49 19 7. c. If these learned English Diâ—ines haue confuted vs let Mr Bern. or any shew the scriptures and reasons by which they haue done it if they were our aduersaries without reason as some of them he
the church is builded contrary to the â—layn and manifest doctrine of the scriptures Leu. 20.24 1 Kin 8 53. Act. 2.40 and 19.8 â— Iohn 17.16 2 Cor. 6.14 â—7 18. The form and order of their vâ—iting is alsâ— strange for these profane people euen all persons in a famâ—ly anâ— all families in a parish are vnited into one parish church as it is called not voluntarily â—as ought to be in the true châ—rch but by constreynt not by any due profeâ—sion of repentance from â—ead workâ— and faith in God but by the priests readinâ— a Confession absolution and such like popish stâ—ff as is to be seen in their seruice book not vnder the guidance of Chrâ—sts officers but of a Parson Vicar Curate or other like creature of the Bishops who in many places can but read English vnto them And this with the other Parâ—shes of the Dioceâ—â—e so gathered also are vnited into one See or Dâ—ocesâ—â—â— church vnder a Lord Bishop and his Coâ—rtiers and all the Dioces into two Proâ—inciall churches the Prouinciall into one nationall church called the Church of England ouer all which there is a most reuerend Father and spirituall Lord Archbushop Primate and Metropolitan vnder whome al Bishops and Priests of the land are subiect and all people and parishes in the land bound to obey the dead canons and decrees which he the Ach Lord with his brethren of the gouerning clergie agree of in their repreâ—atiue church in the Conuocation howse if once the Ciuill Magistrate giue life vnto them This forme and order of a church is not to be found in Chrâ—sts Testament but receiued it is from the church of Rome by heritage or succession as the Papists boast of to the dishonour of Protestants when they say A religion c. that distinguished the multitude into pâ—rishes â—roportioÌ„ed â—he tithes annâ—xed thâ— Glebeland fonÌ„ded the Bishopricks â—mitted the Dioceses c So as the mother is the daughter is false in her câ—stitutioÌ„ though in the doctrin which she profeseth she is far better purer theÌ„ that whoremother of Rome The discussing of thes things as Mr Bern. refereth to other places books so also do I seing in thiâ— place â—e hath brought nothing of weight to proue his coÌ„stitutioÌ„ For the scriptâ—re that he alegeth the 3. things that he colecteth from theÌ„ do make against his purâ—ose The word is not by Christs mâ—nistery riâ—htly reached applyed to the people but vnsufferabley abused to the maintenance or the confusion and idolatries that are among them the sacraments are highly profaâ—ed and prostituted to the most vngodly and thir seed and popishly administred and the externall profession which the people make is by constreynt and therefore nought worth besides it is corrupt and idolatrous being a mixed profession partly of the truth of God partly of their own inuentions as appeareth by their Communion book Canons and the like Our second error should be that we hold their Constitution a real idol and so them idolaters To confute this Mr Ber. sayth that he hâ—th perused in any scriptures and can see none that take an idol or idolaters in any such sâ—nse agaâ—n that Marlorat mentioneth 47. idols and not one of them in â—he sâ—nse Whether this article be of Mr Bernards own forginâ— or where he hath had it I cannot tell his reader must take all of his credâ— for he lets not down his author As for his confutation hereof it is very slender that becaâ—se he seeth it not or Maâ—lorat nameth it not therefore it is no idol For it is no sure position that Mr Bernard seeth all that â—he scriptures teach and both he and Marlorat may as soon number the hayres of their heads aâ— all the idols that are in the world Wel therefore yet may â—t be a real idol for oâ—ght that this man hath sayd to saue it And if it be a false constitâ—tion as before is proâ—ed set vp in stead of a true what is it better then a very idol In the end he tâ—rneth and renteth vs for making oâ—r own constitution as he sayth an idol or goddesse and feighneth that we may say Great is the Goddesse Constitution great is Diana of the Bâ—â—â—nists Bâ—t seing this is but a reâ—roch of a scorner and the reproch reacheth vnto Christ himselfe who hath appoynted the frame order and constitution of hâ—s own châ—rch which we haue laboured for I leaue him for this calumniation vnto his rebuke who will teach him one day no more to blaspheme And whether may we think tendeth the inuectiue of this vayn man who thus skoffeth at the Constitution of Christs church but to bring in a mere ataxie or confâ—sion worse then was at Babels tower-building for take away the orderly framing and constituting of a church and there will be but a Tohu as the scripture speaketh a rude indigest heap or confute Chaos more beseeming the wild beasts of the wood then any humane much lesâ—e diuine polâ—ty That such as are not of a particular constituted church to weet such a one as ours is are no subiects of Christs kingdome Neyther is this position set downe in our words to my knowledge neyther doth Mr Bâ—rnard take away but confirme rather the thing that we hold for he granteth that they offend God which may and doe not ordinarily hauing 〈◊〉 canes offred liue in a church rightly constituted and we grant that many of Christs subiects for want of meanes doe not liue in a true constituted church If therefore he were not a caviller he would not haue reckned this among our errors That all nor in our way are without and we apply against them in Engl. 1 Cor. 5 12 Eph. 2 12. The first part of this position you must impuâ—e to Mr Bernards charity who wâ—ll needs frame our assertions for vs because he thinkes we cannot speake for our selues we might leaue it vnto him to frame an answer also But if he would let vs tel what we hold it is that all not in the way â—f Châ—ist are without and if this be an error let him make the most of it The applying of those scriptures against them he must be content to bear til he or his brethren can proue theÌ„selues a true church for though there bâ— great differences of peoples professing religion some with more truth â—ome with lesse yet all not wâ—thin Christs church are without as thâ— Aâ—ostle speaketh Mr Bernards exception that those places are meant of sâ—ch as neuer professed Christ at all is childish why doth he not except aâ—aâ—nâ—t the holy Ghost himselfe who apâ—lieth against the false Christâ—ans of the Râ—mish Church words and sâ—eaches meant first of heathen Babylon that profeâ—â—ed not God or Christ at all His boasting of the word sacraments effects and deliuerances are before in this traatise taken away And Mr Bernards proofs are but a begging of the question which he blameth in otherâ— as
of the archangel Michael Boniface the 8. shewed like honour to the 4 Euangelists and many other memorable gests are recorded of the Fathers of the See of Rome whereof there is not a word in the Testament of Christ that he or his disciples did euer the like For they appoynted not priests apparall long gownes tippers 4. horned capps as did Pope Zacharie nor a white linen surplice at seruice time as did Pope Syluester 1. They hallowed no Temples or Churches as did P. Hyginus nor Churchyards as did P. Calistus 1 Neyther ordeyned ringing of bells to call the people to diuine seruice as did P. Sabinian They appointed no Rood-loft to part the Chancel from the church as did P. Bâ—niface 2 nor hallowed Font to Christen in or Godfathers and Godmothers at baptisme as did P Pius 1. and Hyginus They commanded not the people to goe procession as did Pope Agapetus 1. nor appoynted any Bishoping or Confirmation of children as did P Clement 1. with a great number more of like pranks vsed in the Romish seruice which Christs Apostles knew not as their writings shew But the church of Engl. as next heir of Romes constitutions reteyneth these reliques obserueth these rites and a many moe for which the Papists doe insult and say that from their treasure house the religion now established hath learned the forme of christening Marrying Churching of women Visiting the sick Burying and sundry other likâ— as the books translated out of theirs doe declare And now what sayth Gods law for all such things vnto his people I am sayth he the Lord your God After the doing of the land of Aegypt wherein ye dwel shall ye not doe and after the doing of the land of Canaan whether I will bring you shall ye not doe neyther walke in their ordinances My iudgments shall ye doe and my ordinances shall ye keep to walke in them I am the Lord your God Thus he forbad them not onely the worship of false Gods but euen the imitation of idolatrous worship rites and ordinances in his seruice wherfore he charged them againe that they should not so much as inquire or ask how the nations serued their Gods that they might doe so to the Lord their God But whatsoever he commanded them they should make heed to doe it putting nothing thereto nor taking ought therfrom Yet the Bishops and Priests of Engl. haue almost all things in their Leiâ—ourgie according to the doings of that spiritual Aegypt the Romish church wherein they dwelt and haue imitated her worships‘ orders ceremonies c. reteyned her ministery prelacy courts and canons thâ— Latine being turned into English and some grosse superfluities left ouâ— And in defense of this worship haue these godly ministers written Mr Bernard published their work wherein if the reader see not a soâ—nd proof of the things that Mr Barrow whose errors they pretend to confute reproued he must impute it to the badnes of their cause which wil scars admit of any colour from the booke of God For besides the abuse of holy scriptures alleged to iustify these popish stratagems how sound diuine or rather how fond and corrupt is the reasoning of these men from Gods example and authority vnto their own practise and power that because the Lord God gaue formes of blessing prayer and psalmes to his people as the scriptures which they cite doe shew therefore their Lords the Prelates may giue them also prescript words for blessing prayer and Psalmes c. as is to be seen in their seruice book Can we thinke that Ieroboam had so slender a reason for his goldeÌ„ calues Why doe not these men also plead that God gaue a law by Moses therefore ther may a law be giuen likewise by the Bishops or th' Apostles wrote a new Testament therefore the Conuocation house may also write a Testament or Gospel bring it into the church If the Prophets practise will bear them ovt in the one I see no cause why it may not vphold them in the other Wel seing neyther Mr Gifford heretofore nor these ministers now can bring better defense for the work of their own hands wherewith they worship or rather prouoke the Lords I leaue them to consider of those lawes that euery where cry ovt against and shew the punishment of idolatrie Neyther is it needfull to keep the Reader with longer answer seing Mr Barrow in the fornamed books and Mr Greenwood in a peculiar treatise against these stinted prayers and seâ— worship haue proued the vnlawfulnes of them by many reasons which neyther these ministers nor any other haue yet taken away And when they write agayn let them not bring proofs for things that we deney not as that Daunds Psalmes may be sung in the church and that in our prayers we may vse or apply the words that other holy men before vsed in their prayers vpon like occasions both these we grant and practise but let them proue if they be able and their right hand can help them that their own writetnn prayers psalmes c. may be read and sung in churches churchâ—â— as Gods true worship and then also they may command the clowdes to rayn no more and may cause to cease the bottels of heauen Like to their former plea and maintenance of their seruice booke is also their answer for Catechismes as for Homilies it seemes they leaue the the defense of them to the simple priests that read them but Catechismes are vsed euen by the learned preachers therefore somewhat they say for them as that the principles of religion were taught in the churches of old RoÌ„ 2.20 6 17.2 Tim 1 13 Heb. 5.12.13 14 and 6 1.2 But these ministers are eyther simple or very deceitfull so to turne away from the question For we neuer deneyed that the grounds and heads of Christian religion should be taught to the people far be it from vs but this we say the Prophets and Apostles are not found to prescribe set words for the minister to teach or the people to answer being examined And that therefore these Bishops and Priests are very presumptuous that wil take vpon them to doe that which Christs Apostles neuer did in the churches Agayn that if those men of God had to done yet seing the writings of Prophets and Apostles are canonicall scriptures and so are no mens writings now it will by no meanes follow that if they wrote catechismes to be vsed in the Church therefore men may writ some for like vse now Yea rather why are they not content with that which is already written in the scriptures but run to erroneous catechismes of humane writers such as is that authorized catechisme in the book of common prayer commanded to be vsed in the church of England Hauing heard what these godly ministers say for their people and seruice book I exspected somewhat also for defense of their own minister and the ecclesiasticall gouernment of
and dissolute quallity onely moued thereto in a lazy speculation layd wicked sacrilegious hands on the Lords ark taken his vndefiled testimonies in their defiled mouthes disgraced defaced and defamed the glory and Maiesty of diâ—ine rites and mysteries c. they run like hungry companions with an eye onely to the flesh pots so sel both themselues and their people for morsel of bread and messe of pottage to the Diuill He mentioneth also accursed and simonical patrons who haue sodered simoned the walls of their houses with the very blood of sowlâ—s some others among you speaking of that a miserable vulgus that woâ—fulâ— crew that racked regiment of dunsticall and vnlettered Sir Iohns which haue euen couered the land like the froggs of Aegypt leading many thow sands with themselues into the ditch and â—he same not still graced countenanced by the Prelatâ—s as being their creatures And others complayn that whol swarms of idle scandalous popish non-resident Ministers are tolerated euery where amongst you Your selfe Mr Crashawe in this very sermon tel in of little petty Babylons namely incurable sinns among you 1. That great sacrilege and church robbing as you call it committed by Impropriations in which case you affirme at this day almost halfe of the kingdome is wherby it comes to passe that an ignorant and vnpreaching ministery is set ouer a great part of your people which is the sourse and fountayn of all other euils in your church 2. The vngodly players enterludes so rise in the nations which you call a bellish deuise the Diuils own recreation to mock at holy things by him deliuered to the heathen from them to the Papists and from them to you And these you say bring religion and holy things vpon the stage And hypocrisie a child of hel must bear the names of two churches of God Nicholas S. Antlings Simon S. Maryâ—veries which churches by these miscreanâ—s are thus dishonoured you say not on the stage onely but euen in print To this you add â—heir continuall profannesse on their phrases and sometime Atheisme and blasphemy their continuall profanening of the Sabbath which generally in the country is their play day and oftentimes Gods diuine seruice hindred or cut shorter to make room and giue time for the Diuils seruice Many other like testimonies might I allege froÌ„ your own mouthes of exceeding impiety openly practised not by the people onely but by the Priests and Clergie and how doth your discipline heal these corruptions when by your own grant such caitiffs are graced and countenanced by the prelates when your law punisheth the conscionable ministers more then such as your selfe say of your petty Babilon of Impropriations this deep wound was once curable yenough c. but now alas how incurable it is he obserues but little that sees not And vnlesse the K. Maiesty vouchsafe to take the matter into his hands otherweise it is incurable Agayn you say of that horible abuse of the Sabbath c. that est is hath been complayned of and some haue endeuoured to heal it but it is 〈◊〉 of Babylon that will not be healed but rather it creps 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 though the whole state from the foot to the head and if you would yet haue more add herevnto Mr Iacobs testimony who hath so manfully stood for your church The right and true discipline ecclesiasticall sayth he in â—ch proper visible church is one mayn part of the ordinary meanes of saluation appoynted by God for euery sowl and this we in England vtterly want Now let the reader iudge whether there be not deadly corruption in your discipline which euen in a true church would soon eat out if it wer not healed the hart and life and being of a church according to your demaund But you proceed and ask vs. Q. What book of Canonicall scripture receiue we not what hold we for Canonicall that is not A. What book of Canonicall scripture receiued not the idolatrous Isâ—elites what held they for Canonicall that was not The like I ask for the Arians Anabaptists and sundry other heretikes of these times and shall these or any of them be therfore true churches Agayn in your own church there is read for holy scripture erroneous books and lying stories as Tobie Iudith and other Apocrypha Your Homilies citing thâ—Ì„ call them holy scripture and say the holy Ghost speaketh so in the scriptures the chiefest ministers of your church sometimes preach and take texts out of them If this be not to hold them canonicall I know not what you count canonicall Q. What sacrament that Christ ordeyned doe we want and what haue we more then Christ ordeyned A. What sacrament wanted Ieroboam the son of Nebat what had he more then God ordeyned Or the Anabaptists at this day Yet if one would stand with you he might by your Communion book proue Confirmation to be a sacrament but who ordeyned it I cannot tel vnlesse Pope Clement Agayn Mr Bradshaw a man of your own church and profession hath proued against you in print that your Crosse in baptisme ring in mariage surplice c. are sacraments in your church and not of diuine institution Q. What article of faith deny we or what hold we for an article of faith this is not A. Suppose that the Papists should ask you such a question what would you answer For all the Creeds that are in your communion book are they not with euery article neyther more nor lesse in the masse book and other popish pamphlets The Papists and you both confesse Christ in words both deny him in practise Q. What fundamentall heresie doth our doctrine maintayn A. The vnlawfull commixture of the children of God and children of the Diuell in one church and communion is a fundamentall heresie being stifly mainteyned All the scritures condemne it all wel reformed churches avoyd it nature it selfe teacheth to abhorr it yet in such profane communion your church abiderh and you wil not endure to bâ—â—r of a separation Q. What haue we in our church that ouerthrowes the being of a church A. A popish Clergie and Laitie Q. What is necessarily required to make a church that wee doe want A. You want both matter and forme of a true church namely a people called of God separated from the world and vnited with Christ and one with another according to the rules of his eternall Testament Q. I will end as I began wherein are we deadly and incurably wounded A. The sinns before mentioned are deadly wounds of Satan the onely cure is by repentance and faith in Christ Iesus â—ut as yet you be farr from cure for loe you make questions of your diseases and will not beleeue that you are sick Herevpon you refusâ— all salues and medicines and will neither haue physician nor chirurgian to meddle with your sores If any Leech come with a curing tongâ—e and words that be leaues of the tree of
COVNTERPOYSON CONSIDERATIONS touching the poynts in difference between the godly ministers and people of the Church of England and the seduced brethen of the Separation ARGVMENTS That the best assemblies of the present Church of England are true visible Churches That the Preachers in the best assemblies of Engl. are true ministers of Christ. Mr BERNARDS book intituled The SEPARATISTS SCHISME Mr CRASHAWES Questions propounded in his Sermon preached at the Crosse. Examined and Answered by HENRY AINSWORTH Lord God the strength of my saluation couer thou my head in the Day of battel Psal. 140.7 RIGHT RIGHT Printed in the yeare 1642. A fore-speech to the Christian reader THE truth and church of God by multitude of enemies hath euer been dâ—sgraced and troden down in the world that many which haue seemed to loue and seek after it haue stumbled at the reproch oppotision of the same Yet the godly wise haue vnderstood discerned things that differ It is a great help vnto the weak and simple when the deceits and snares wherewith the adversarie seeketh to destroy the sowl are oâ—enly discouered by the light of Gods word and for this cause haue I endeauoured according to the measure of knowledge and grace giuen vnto me to make answer vnto such reasons cauils and calumniations as are giuen out against that part of the truth which this church witnesseth vnto the world touching our separation from the Church of Engl. the Considerations Arguments first answered were written by Mr Spr a Minister of Glocestershire in them as I suppose the summ and weight of that which may be sayd for that church is comprised Mr Bernards booke hath rather shew then weight of reason as the iudicious reader may perceiue and seemeth to be penned by him rather for disgrace of others then defence of themselues But no better fruit can be exspected from such as rebel against the light which themselues once seemed to regard Mr Crashawes questions are rather to stumble at then to direct the ignorant as hauing neyther weight of argument against vs nor for themselues Yet as by al these meanes the truth is oppugned so by all contrary good meanes it should be defended that wisdome may be iustified of all her children and others left without excuse How weak and insufficient the aduersaries reasons are in partiular the answers vnto them more parâ—icularly will shew Here I will briefly obserue some generall things whereby falshood endeavoureth to vphold it selfe and how it may by the prudente be discried Vntruth hatâ— sought to preuayl 1. By perseâ—uting such as haue spoken against or forsaken her iniquitie iniquitie This the blood of Gods martyrs shed in all ages proclaimeth vnto all men And thus haue the chief Pastors of the Church of England dealt with Christs lambs in these our dayes For hauing gotten into their hands the sword of the Magistrate they there with haue smitten such as with the word the sword of the spirit they could not conuince In which they fulfill the measure of their Fathers for so haue the Papall Prelates vsed to feed their flocks 2. By blaspheming and preaching against the faith witnesses therof For they that hold forth the truth are exposed to the reproch venim of the tongue and many vniust calumniations come forth against their persons especially the principall of them whom evill minded men doe most maligne Also the cause it selfe is often wronged whiles the truth thereof and reasons that vphold it are svâ—pressed arguments feighned and confuted which wer neuer made or otherwise made then the aduersaries pretend and sometimes such articles and errors imputed as from which it is altogether free How others heretofore haue caried themselues this way all records shew how men at this day haue dealt with vs and the truth which we imbrace many pulpits in Engl. can witnesse besides priuate calumnies innumerable and some publicke pamphletes The stinch of their reprochfull mouthes hath caused many to distast the sweet sauour of the Gospell and caused also for a while a dislike in sundry of vs till God in mercy visited and saued vs from the deceitfull tongue 3. Yet is not this yenough but men seek to bear down the truth by writing against and to the defamation of the same with all exquisite cunning and frawd to disgrace it and by plausible reasons to perswade vnto error If any would see this let the generall arguments vsed at this day against vs consonant and agreable to the reasons of Papists other ancient adversaries of the Gospel be obserued 1. The Papists haue continually exclaimed against them for leauing their mother the ch of Rome that bare them crying out the Church the Church the Catholike church and saying that Luther and all the pack of their first fathers were children of their mother the Catholike Church and are gone out from them And when the Protestants obiected her sinns for which they left her it was pleaded againe will ye forsake your mother because shee wanteth perfect bewty or because there is some deformity in her c Moreouer they would allege to proue them schismatiks how in that ch thâ—y had been regenerated and made hâ—r citezens and members by baptisme c that from her they had their first faith and knowledge yea euen the Bible it selfe which treasure their church euer had the custody of and many such like These are the mayn reasons obiected to vs at this day they tel vs the Church of England is the mother of the faithfull that the ministery thereof hath begotten vs if euer we were truely begotten in the spirit asking us where els we were regenerate â—f not in the womb of that their church c. And if we tell them of their transgressions for which we forsake them they answer though there were in our church these wounds you speake of yet doe they not come neare the hart they be not deadly they may blemish the bewty but endanger not the life of our church c. thereforâ— your separation from vs is scismaticall and vniust and many such like pleas they pretend 2 For the châ—rch of Rome it hath by her Mediators been alleged that in her is reteyned the pâ—ofession of Christ authorety of scriptures and Apostolike doctrine as touching all the chief or capitall articles of religion and that the church is to be esteemed by the foundation thereof which is Chrst on which foundation though they that came after builded wood and hay and stubble instead of siluer and gold and precious stones yet haue they not by and by departed from the foundation c. Now who knoweth not that this is the bulwarke of the church of Eng. now against all batteries and one of the chiefest reaâ—ons whereby they reteyn many simple and wel affected people among them and that may be also seen in this book following pag. 43.105 119. 123. and in many other of their writings 3.
Vniuersall consent agreement and applause of Churches in al nations of Synodes and Councels of Fathers and learned men haue been the continuall boast of Papists in all their books against the Protestants now they in Enâ—l to beare out their estate vrge agayn and agayn the like against vs that when Gods word will not vphold them yet mans word at least may honour them before the people See after in this treatise pag 9. 22. 44 5. 89 91.92.128 4. Whereas the truth hath brought for her defense the evident scriptures papists haue been wont to carp at the allegations and interpretations of them and chalenge their aduersaries for corrupting them the formall protestants in Engl. haue done the like against the Reformists and they now use the like colour against vs but how truely let the particulars shew after in this book pag. 90.91.97 5. To reuile and calumniate such as forsooke them hath been the coÌ„mon practise of Papists calling them heretiks schismatikes Lutherens Calumists c. and matching them with wicked heretiks heretofore now liuing The same way doe our aduersaries now walke in proclayming vs to be Schismatiks Seduced Brownists Donatists c. and to make vs the more odious vnto the people they enroll vs sometime with the most vile blasphemers that they can mention For he was esteemed a forward â—reacher amâ—ng them who to grace his own cause by disgracing the truth would needs ioyn vs with the blasphemer Hacket sometimes a brother of the reformists and hot mainteyner of their cause to make his malice the more remarkable he puts in the margine of his book The brownest and Hacket of an euill spirit and that which he writeth besides is so fraudulently set down that the simple reader who knowâ—th not our cause may thinke that this Hacket was one of vs. This abuse we suâ—fer because forsooth we were thought to hinder their couÌ„terfeyt reformation which Hacket would haue set vp by force for which they beare their reproch at his hands that wrote English Scottizing for discipline but this man most iniuriously would turn it vpon vs. These and the like arguments doe euill men continually vse against the truth which presseth them and which they seek to suppresse but all in uayne for it will preuayl mangre their opposition and that which they thinke to hinder the Gospell bâ— God will turne to the furtherance of the same and confusion of his aduersaries Against these and all other like colours wherewith false churches aâ— adorned two meanes haue been vsed for to discouer the falshood thâ— one manifesting the fact or estate of a person or people the other the lawfulnesse of the same The commandement of God is a lantern and the law a light to declare what is good or euill and evidences there are of euery publick estate and action For in al ages God hath moued some to obserue and speake against the abuses reigning and some haue recorded things for their glory which turne vnto their shame â—y this meanâ— the skirts of the whore of Rome haue been discouered whiles some that loued and othersome that loathed her haue painted out her filthinesse which being compared with the chastitie of Christs spowse set forth in holy writ hath caused righteous men as was foretold to iudge her children after the manner of harlots and of murtherers and the very hornes of that beast to hate the whore and burne her with fire And we at this day that witnesse the truth against the remainders of that whores cup are driuen to breake silence to plead for Christ in publik because the aduersaries so importune vs by continuall preaching and writing against vs and seeking to bear out all with the cloke â—f the gospel and to hide the iniquities vnder a vaile of professing truthes fundamentall they will hardly be a known of the manifold euils and grosse corruptions that preuayl in their assemblies Therefore also are we forced to produce their own writers for to witnes with vs who both heretofore and to this day complayn of the sinns that reign among them And worthy it is to be obserued how the ministers of England are come to contradict and depart from their own grounds for to mainteyn their corrupt estate For now they vtterly deney the visible church to be a company of faithfull people that truely worship Christ and readily obey him coâ—traâ—y both to all the scriptures and to their own Articles d of religioâ— Aâ—d Mr Bernarde in the name of all the diuines in their church yea if we â—ay beleâ—ue him of all the reformed Churches in Christendome telleth vs with a marginall note also to haue it wel obserued that the true word of God preached and true sacraments of Christ administred are infallible tokeâ—s of a true church I say not saith he the word truely preachâ—d nor the sacrâ—mâ—nts rightly administred but thus the true word preached the true sacrâ—mâ—nâ—â— administred Now lay these things together and see what a holy communion they will make the church of God to be namely if not a roâ—t of miscreants yet at least a mesceline multitude of beleeuers and infidelâ— holy and profane Among whome it the true word be preached though neuer so curruptly falsly peruersly by any Popeling Baalist or Balaamite if the true sacraments be administred though neuer so superstitiausly profanely and disorderly to the open wicked c. yet there must needs be a true church Such heauenly doctrine or rather such hellish error is now taught by the transformed ministers for to make meÌ„ keep communion with Belial Against these and other like impostures haue I endeauoured to bring out the truth though naked and destitute of all wordly ornaments and by it to manifest the present aberations of my country from the primitiue faith of Christ I haue also produced their own testimonies a-against them that the Saincts on eart may say their rock is not as our Rock euen our enemies being iudges And if they will yet resist the world may see they are condemned by themselues But my harts desire and prayer for my brethren is that they may be saued turning from darknes to light and from the power of Satan vnto God that they may receiue forgiuenes of sinns and inheretance among them which are sanctified by faith in Christ. Hâ—nâ—y Ainsworth A Direction to some principall things conteyned in this book Administration of the Ministers of Engl scanned with the effects pag 14. c. 58. c. 60. c. 62. c. 109. c. 110. c. Antichrists kingdome not ouerthrowne by the ministers of Engl. pag. 61. c. Begetting of faith how it is pag. 5 6 It is no essentiall note of a true church p 6. It should be before the planting of a church p. 40 41 146. Building of the church and how it is performed in England p. 33 34 c Christ not the head Mediator Prophet Priest or
the name of the Lord and 2 of faith by hearing his word 1. Whosoeuer call th upon the name of the Lord shal be saued This we are to understand according to Dauids exposition whosoeuer calleth vpon him in truth Psa. 145 18. for God is a spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and trâ—th Ioh. 4.24 but the worship and calling vpon God which your Church vseth in reading the prayers letanie collects and other like things of your Leiturgie translated out of AntiChrâ—st mass-masse-booke is carnall false Idolatrous for such a manner of diuine service you haue no commandement or warrant in the scriptures And this popish worship begetteth not but destroyeth faith and the true caling on Godâ— name and deceiueth mens sowles for in vayn they worship me sayth Christ teaching fâ—r doctrine the precepts of men Mat. 15.9 and they that wayt vpâ—n lyâ—ng vanâ—ties forsake their own mercy Ionah 1 8 2. For the other poynt Faâ—th is by bearing or by report saith the Apostle and proueth it by Isa. 53.1 Lord who hath beleeued our beâ—ring that is our report Now no man can truly and faithfully report â—nlesse God hath first spoken vnto â—â—m neâ—ther can aâ—y man fruâ—tfully hear other report or doctrine then the Lords and so hearing is by the word of God iâ— the mouthes of such as are sent as he sheweth in the 15 verse But youâ— Ministers are not truly and lawfully sent for they cannot shew eyther calling ordination or office according to Chrâ—sts Testament therefore they cannot truly and lawfully preach his word and consequently cannot beget ordinarily a true sauing faith The next scripture also Mat 28 19 20 playnly condemneth the state of your Church and ministerâ—e for 1. There is a lawfull calling authorizing and sending of ministerâ— from him that hath all power in heauen and in earth saying Goe therfore and teach but such a sending your ministers haue not for as your selues haue sayd they enter not in by Chrict but by a Popish and vnlawfull vâ—cation 2. There is a commandement to teach or make disciples before they be receiued into th' Church by baptisme for oâ— them that ar taught such onely as gladly receiue and beleeue the word are to be baptised and admitted into the Church as the practise of th' Apostle sheweth Act. â— 40 41. but your Church was not thuâ— gathered or plaÌ„ted by th' preaching of the Gospell but by the commandement of the Magistrate neither weâ— onely the willing beleevers receiued and others refused but the whole profane multitudes wer admitted or rather compelled into your church wher they and their seed are still retâ—yned 3. There Gods Ministers are willed to teach Chrâ—stians so baptised to obserue all things whatsoeuer Christ commanded his Apostles verse 20 so they haue his gracious promise and blessing to the end of the world but in your church many things are obserued which Christ neuer commaâ—ded Yea the Ministerie and goâ—erment appoynted in his TestameÌ„t are held and confirmed by practise among you not to be perpetual not necessary nor fitting for your state but an other pompous minâ—stery and Lordly ecclesiastical gouerment after the manner of the court of Rome And as for power and liberâ—y to obserue Christ commandements that is farr from your people which al are in bondage to the Bishops and their courts hauing not chrâ—stian freedom to censure sinne or sinners or practise the ordinances of the Gospel as the Apostles did vnlesse Princes and Parliaments will permit or command them The like may be sayd and returned vpon you from the other scriptures by you alleged all which doâ— concerne the true church and ministerie as your selues will not deny and so will helpe you nothing vntill you proue your church and ministerie such Boast not therefore of a true sauing faith and fruites of the spirit when such bitter fruites and works of the flesh doe reign among you for faith without works 〈◊〉 dâ—ad Iam. 2.26 Now then if you will giue us leaue to consider the state of your Church aright we would mind it thus your Church hath the essentiall notes of a false Church namly a confuse prophane worldly people with an Antichrâ—stian Prelacie and preisthood over them able to beget ordinarily but a vayne and dead faith through want of the true ministery of the word in Christs ordinance and by meanes of the false worship and false doctâ—nes that are in your Church to worke the fruits of the flesh as the idolatries and other sinful actions abounding in your Church doe shew to make a man a very Antichristian by resisting persecuting and blaspheming the true way of Christ and practise of his Gospel which alas too many doe and last of all to destroy him if he repent not of his sinneâ—â—nd find mercie with the Lord. which we desire you all may finde for the saluation of your soules The 3. Consideration OVr Church and ministerie are approved of and rejoyced for of all the pure reformed Churches in the world Our confession by them placed in the Harmonie of Confessions giâ—ing vs the right hand of fellowship as also by all the godly learned and most sound and excellent fathers lights of the churâ—h that euer liued in or meddle with our church Bucer Marâ—yr Fagius Alasio Knoxe who liued â—n our church Caluin Beza Bullinger Gualtâ—r â—ymlâ—r Zanchius Iunius Rolocus c. with others verie many who haue giuen their testimony and approbation to our church and ministerie Wherin if our errors were fundamentall damnable and Antichristian as you terme them these churches and persons had vndoubtedly the spirit of discerning and could not be deceiued all at once 1. Cor. 11 16. 14.33 â— 15 10.15 14.32 37 2. Thes. 1.4 Answer THough you come against vs with horsemen and charrets yet we will â—emember the name of the Lord our God by whose word alone all doctrines must be tried all persons must â—udge and be iudged It is incident to the best men and purest churches to erre and be deceiued wherefore their sentences and approbations must be examined by Gods word If you say otherweise you teach corrupt and popish doctrine With such weapons as these haue the Papists long foâ—ght against you and where you can bring one they can bring many to witnesse for them and their Romish superstitions Antiquity vniversality and sâ—ch lâ—ke popular reasons they seek to vphold their kingdome withall 2. The word of God condemning your church and ministerie as we haue often proued and our proofes ly vpon you yet unanswered though all churches in the world should aâ—proue of you your case wer â—o whit the better for all men are vanity 3. The Iewes obieâ—ted as weighty aâ— argâ—mâ—nâ— agaâ—â—â—t Câ—riâ—t him selfe wheâ— they sayd dâ—th any of the rulers or of the Phariseâ—s 〈◊〉 in him but this people which know not the Law are â—ursed Iâ—h 7 1â— 19 4. If the reformed Church's apâ—roue so well of youâ— Church and
ministerâ—e they are nâ—â— onely against vs but against themselues for theyr own Câ—â—rches consist of â— separated and voluntary people wheras yoâ—rs are coâ—fused and compelled they condemn and haue reâ—eâ—ted the hierarchie and ministerie of Archbishopâ— Lord bishoâ—s c. Prâ—ests Parsoâ—s Vicars c. which are yet among you and haâ—e amonâ— them anâ—ther ministerie Now how they can apâ—roue of two sorts of Churches mâ—nâ—sterâ—es so contrary one to another let them look to â—t 5. It seemeth to me you are verie lauâ—sh in your praise which now vaunt so of the aâ—probation and reioycing of al the â—ure reforâ—ed Churches in the world whereas heretofore you complayned that you had all the bâ—st refâ—rmed Châ—râ—hes throughâ—ut Châ—istendom agâ—inst you Agayn the Harmony that you mention was set forth but by the French and Belgick churches the things that they approue among you are certayn general heads of religeon which a Bâ—shop wrote in an Apologie of your Church most of all which heads we our selues also approue and reioyce for But the controuersies between you and vs touching the gathering and constituting of a Church the manner of divine seruâ—ce the form of Church government and the like are eyther not at all or in very generall termes set down in that boâ—ke and so uerie slenderly if ought at all by them aâ—proued or reioyced for To giue an instance or two in the tenth section of that Hâ—rmony treating of the Châ—rch your English confession is so shorâ— and in generall words I doubt not bâ—t the Pope himselfe will subscribe vnto it letting him haue his own interpretation In the 15 section of Ecclâ—siasâ—icall meâ—tings you speake of prayer in the tongue which all yoâ—r people vnderstand Now because the Reformed churches approue of thiâ— we must take it belike that they approue of your Leiturgie and service book also and al your publick worship though it be not set downe fâ—r any to judge of In the 16. section of Holy day's fasts c. there yoâ— wriâ—e agâ—inst purgatory which being put into the Harmonie iâ— ynough as seemeth to proue that other châ—rches approue of al your Pope holy-dayes and festiuals The lâ—ke may be minded for other poynts as in the 17. section for ceremonies things indifferent which being approued of and reioyced for by all the Reformed churches in the world the Prelatâ—s wâ—l haue a shrewd hand against you that are called Puritans for standing so much against the ceremonies of your Church as you do· And for your minâ—stery I marveil you say not that it is approued of and râ—iâ—yced for of the Pope also for in the 11. section of that Harmony you beleeue these orders and degrees of ministers in the Church 1 Deacons 2 Priests and 3 Bishops which orders wehther the Reformed Churches approâ—e of or no I am sure the Counsel of Trent doth and hath decreed If any shall say that in the Catholik Church there is not a Hirarchie instituted by diuine ordination which consisteth of Bishops and Priests and ministers let him be â—ccursâ—d Concil Trident. Sess 23. Can. 6. But now seeing not onely the Fathers of the Counsel of Trent but all reformed Churches in the world as you sayd doe approue of and reioyce for this your ministerie I hope the Bishops and hirarchie of your Church shall no more be preached writen against by your inferior Priests as many a day they haue been as being Antichrâ—stâ—an Thus may you see what a weak foundation you bring for your church and ministerie and if we lyfted to fight against you with your own weapons we could allege many things from the persons whome you cite against your present church and ministery but the word of God yeeldeth vs armour ynough for this battell against you as in due tâ—me through his grace shall be seen 6. In the meaÌ„ while it shal not be amisse to put the reader in mind how your selues heretofore haue iudged and written of your ministerie which you say it is approued of and reiâ—yced for of all the pure reformed churches in the world your ministers being as before is noted Deacons Priests and Bishops Of the Deacenship you haue written that it is a meer humane institution a degree to the Priesthood and nothing like to the ordinance of God Of Priests c. that they cam from the Pope as out of the Troian horses belly to the destruction of Gods kingdom Of the Bishops c. that you account them no natural members of the body of Christ church becauase they are of humane addition not borne with her nor grown up with her from the cradle Agayne that they be rather members of the strumpet of Rome then of the spouse of the Lamb c. And haue not you the reformed Churches great cause now to reioyce for this ministery 7. Moreouer consider you also how we may allege that now 10. yeares sithence we have published our Confession of faith and causes of our separation from your Church and ministery to the learned Vniversities of the Reformed churches with desire if in our faith or practise we erred that they would shew it vs but to this day we know not any that haue vndertaken so to doe wherefore we also may suppose by their silence that they approue our case or at least suspend their iudgments and condemne vs not 8. Finally it is written in one of the scriptures that you quote the spirituall man iudgeth all things but he himselfe is iudged of no man 1 Cor. â— 15. Now every true Christian is a spirituall man Gal. 6. 1. 1 Pet 2.5 therfore he may judge and discerne by Gods word and spirit faith from here sie and the true church from the false he may see with his eyes liue by his own faith and not depend vpon other men to liue walk in sin till other churches condemne it Let every man therfore retayn his liberty and take heed how he iudgeth 4. THe onely wicked Paâ—ists Athâ—ist and most ungodly ones are aduersaries to our godly ministers and people The godly in all placâ—s and times among vs by them alone anâ— ordinarily haâ—e been conuerted vnto Christ and by them approâ—ed reuâ—renced and obeyed alwayes in the Lord. Answer 1. IF the onely wicked be adversaries to your Godly ministers and people it perteyneth not to us who hate none of you bâ—t wish well and pray for you al euen for our persecutors we are aduersaries onely to the sinns corruptionâ— that are among you whiles we reproâ—e you for â—inne you should â—udâ—e that we loue and hate you not as the law teâ—cheth We say therefore with the Apostle are we become your enemies because we â—ell â—ou the truth Gal. 4 16. 2 The Atheists and wicked oneâ— that so hate your godly ministers and people are theâ— not also mâ—â—bers of yoâ—r owne Church So then your church is diuided against it selfe and you are aduers one to another And why tel
your labours and blesse you for them as Moses blessed the builders of the tabernacle Exod. 39.43 Your first argument therefore is to weak to vphold your church or best assemblies and the assumption of your profyllogisme is denyed The 2 argument 2. THose Churches whose true members are onely espowsed to Christ a true visible Churches Ephe. 5.30.32 2. Cor. 11.2 But the true members of our best assemblies are espowsed onely to Christ. Therefore c. Proof of the assumption They are espowsed onely to Chrisi which are indued with true sauing faith Eph. 5 30.31.32 with Iohn 15.3 4.5.7 17 20.21 But the true members of our best assemblies are indued with a true sauing faith confessed by Mr. Iohnson in Iakob pag. 7· Look also in the confirmation of the 5. argument folowing here Therefore c. Answer HEre agayn you haue gott an other starting hole whiles you plead but for the true members of your best assemblies yet neither tel you vs which are your best assemblies nor who be the true members of them that how to follow or where to finde you we cannot tel As is the way of an eagle in the aire such is the way of an adultrous woman it is hid and cannot be known But I will see if I can discouer your falsehood though I cannot find your footing First I deny that the true members of your best assemblies are espowsed onely to Christ. for as the prophet sayd of Israel lift vp your eyes uÌ„to the high placs behold wher you haue not plaied the harlot Now whils a church doth play the harlot Christ willeth vs to plead with her that she is not his wife neyâ—her is he her husband Idolatrie is spirituall whordome as the Prophets testifie Psa. 106 39. Ier. 3.9 Deut. 31.16 but the true members of your best assemblies commit idolatrie in their daylie worship according to their Romish leiturgy or book of commoÌ„ prayer an idol of your own inuentioÌ„ How are they theÌ„ espowsed to Christ alone Yes they are say you because they ar indued with true sauing faith I answer Faith is in the hart as it is writen with the hart man beleeueth Rom. 10.10 The hart no man knoweth but God alone as agayn it is written thou Lord onely knowest the harts of all the children of men 1 King 8 39 So then I ask you how you know that your members haue true faith your answer must needs be vnlesse you wâ—ll make your selfe a God you know it not but by their words and works Wel theÌ„ let vs bring these to th' trial their confession and theâ—r practise leauing their faith to God that knowes it The confâ—ssion of theâ—r faith is set downe in their service book the 12. articles of the Creed But this Creed the Papists also confesse and read in their church and if it will proue your people to haue true faith it will proue theirs to haue likewise you say no more for England then for Rome Agayn the Apostle sayth there are some which professe that they know God but in works doe deny him and are abominable and disobedient and to euery good work reprobate So then words are not yenough to proue true faith But we must come to the Apostle Iames his triall shew me thy fayth out of thy works for faith without works is dead Now the works of your people are apparant to be evil they standing in communion or confusion rather with the vnclean profane and wicked whereby al Gods holy things are defiled as it is written Num. 19.22 Hag. 2.14 submitting their soules to Antichristian prelates and priests and hearing their voyce contrariâ— to Iohn 10 5. worshiping God in vayn after their own invented seruice book which is a high transgression of the second commandement Exo 20 And these things are general and publick the particular and more priuate inâ—qâ—ities will not easily be numbred Whereas therefore you would perswade vs your church is espowsed onely to Christ although her fornicatâ—ons are so manifest between her brests because she sayth she beleeveth only in Christ it is with no more colour then as if Bilhah wheÌ„ she was known to lie with Reuben should haue pleaded yet am I an honest woman and espowsed to Iaacob onely for my loue and harty affection is towards him alone But the wise man teacheth vs these be but the tricks of an adultrous woman she eateth and wipeth her mouth sayth I haue done no iniquity Pro 30 20. The scriptures which your selfe allege doe also make against your chvrch Eph 5 30. We are members of Christs body of his flesh and of his bones Fâ—rst your church can shew no covenant that was made between Christ and her at any time the gathering and planting of your church having been by the Magistrates authority not by the word of Christ winning mens soules unto his faith separating them from the vnbeleevers and taking them to communion with himselfe Secondly in saying his body the Apostle excludeth al other bodies as more plainlie appeareth in the other scripture 2 Cor. 11.2 where he prepared the church as a pure virgin for Christ which cannot be whiles she defileth her self with others as doth your church with the abominations of the Papists compaÌ„ying also in the bed of loue with the Prelates whom the better son of you haue confessed to be Antichristian and their inferâ—our priests who work vpon mens consciences by their jurisdiction ministery doctrines canons c. being as the bridegrooms of your church not the friends of the bridegroom which stand and heare and reioyce for the bridegrooms voyce for that Christ should speak and rule vnlesse it be according to their own canons they cannot endure The other places in Iohn 15. 17. will confirme also that the true members of your best assemblies are not espowsed onely to Christ For Christ sheweth that his Father is the husbandman who caleth and bringeth vnto and planteth in him the true vine all the branches that is the particular persons of the Church But the true members of your best assemblies are as yet the branches of that false Antichristian vine your confused church of England not separated from but liuing and growing in one stock body and communion with the idolatrous and profain So that you cannot say as did the Israel of God Thou hast brought a vine out of Aegypt thou hast cast out the heathens plaÌ„ted it Christ sheweth that his branches were purged of the Father by the word spoken vnto theÌ„ your members ar not yet purged or clensed by the word of Christ from their idolatries and profane communion with the ympes of Satan The word of life the word of separatioÌ„ from the serpeÌ„t his seed hath not yet sounded in the eares or at least not sunk into the harts of your people Christ branches bring forth much fruit through their abiding in him being able without him to doe nothing your
their dutie Gods word teacheth uâ— tâ—at â—f a man walke in any one sinne though he doe not all he shal nâ—t liue but die the deâ—th Ezek. 18 11 13. Wâ—en Gibeah was giuen oveâ— to the Sinne of Sodom if the Priests and prophets should haue preached against idolatrie swearing breaking of the Sabbath and such like evils and not against that particular filthynes which the people followed should they haue preached repentance truly When Israel followed Iereboams calues at Dan and Bethel if the ministers then had preached against Sodoâ—ie whordome drunkennes and the like and not cried out aâ—ainst that present idol worship but pleaded rather for it shâ—uld they haue tâ—uâ—ht repenatnce truly Even thus it is with your best minâ—sterâ— they will thâ—â—deâ— out in their pulpits against Popery and idolâ—try in â—eâ—erâ—ll aâ—ainst theft whordome prâ—de coueteousnes and mâ—â—y oâ—her iâ—qâ—â—â—ieâ— but the sinne which cleaueth so fast to the bones of â—oâ—r Church tâ—e heynous enormities in Gods worship amongst you these they meddle not with neither vpon payn of excommunicatiâ—â— draw the people to repentance for them as after I will further shew Perhaps now and then they will glance at the Bps. or some other corruptions but bring the people from vnder these iniquities they doe not nay they plead for them rather and cry oâ—t vpon vs which haue forsaken so grosse abâ—minations Now there being no notice giuen by the ministers or taken by the people of the siâ—ns wherein they liue the other two parts of true reâ—entance doe also fail among you for farr you be from confessing your sins which though you offer the sacrifice of fools yet will you not know that you doe evill and most farr from amending them when with so high a hand you doe maintain them although the testimonie and sâ—ffrings of vs your disâ—ised and persecuted brethren against them haue sounded in your eares now manâ—e a day Thus teach they not repentance aright As for faith it cannot be sound and true where it hath not ground oâ— the couenant and promise of God Gods couenant and â—romise of saluation you haue not without repentance as Christ sayd Except ye repent you shall all likewise pâ—rish for surely God will wound the hairie â—ate of him that walketh in his sinnes To preach faith therefore and aâ—ply iustification by faith to an vnrepentant people is to â—rofane that holy doctrine and turne the grace of God into licentâ—ousnes But to giue the seales of the righteousnes of faith baptisme and the Lords supper to the wicked blasphemers irreligious and to their seed it is a sinne of sinâ— for which your ministers shall giue an heauy account to Christ at his appearing as haue counted the â—recious blood of his testament an vnholiâ— thing and washed and fed therewith eâ—en doggs and swine as the scripture calleth such vngodly â—ersons And thus you haue not truly taught among you eyther repâ—ntance from dead works or faith towards God which are the doctrine of the beginning of Christ and the very foundation as the Apostle saith I will now also compare the practise of the Apostles in the placâ— which you cite with yours that the reader may see how your right eye is blinded to bring scripture so playn against your selues In Act. 2 37 c the manner of gathering and planting that church‘ is thus described There was first the word preached by the Apostles verse 14 c which being heard pricked the harts of the â—eople verse 37. there was repentance taught not for adultery theft worshiping of Idols oâ— the like whereof it may be that people was not knowen to be guilty but for their particular trespasse in refusing of Iesus Christ into whose name they must be baptised if they would be saued verse 38 then followed a playn separation from such as frowardly resisted the truth vers 40 and none were baptised or ioyned to the church but such as gladly receiued the word verse· 41. After this followed a contâ—newing notwithstanding the imminent peril of trouble and persecution for the truth sake in the Apostles doctrâ—ne and fellowship and breaking of bread and prayerâ— verse 42 If you had walked in this primitiue churches steps you should before the constituting of your Church haue preached vnto the poor ignorant and idolatrous Papists which was the generall face of the land at Q Maries death repentance for their sinns in all their idolatries wâ—ll worships and superstitions subiection to Antichrist his prelacie priesthood and gouernment c. To such as had their harts pricked with your doctrine you should haue shewed the true way of the Gospel faith and holy walking therein You should haue taughâ— them a separation from the profane and obstinate and haue gathered into the Church such onely as gladly receiued the word and with them you should haue walked in a holy communion and practise of Christs ordinances thâ—ugh Princes and Parlâ—aments thoâ—gh men and Angels should haue forbidden threatned you for it Thus had your church beeÌ„ the daughter of thâ—t mother church in Ierâ—salem whereas now by neglecting this patterne and reteyning the Popish confuse multitude and a great part of their ministery and worship you haue imitated Bâ—bylon â—e mother of fornications aâ—d â—re as vnlike Sion as you are like your selues The objection which you feared and therefore would prevent with answer is yet of more weight then will be eased by your syllogisme the aâ—sumption whereof I deny For the true constituting of a Church by the word perached callâ—ng men to a willing holy covenant with God sepâ—ratinâ— them from the wayes of Satan Antichrist his false idoatrâ—â—s worship priesthood and government vniting them togither in the comâ—union of the true faith and bond of loue and peace which ar the controuersies between you and vs these poynts are cleerly set down in scriptures to the vnderstandâ—ng of the spirituall as the history of all the Bible and the practâ—se of the Apostles and primitiue churhes already alleged doe plainely shew and I am sure you will not deny but they were spirituall Whereas you would â—roue they are not clearely set downe to the vnderstand of the spirituall because thowsands of ministers and people of the churâ—h of Englâ—nd are of contrary iudgment to vs first we haue many testimonies of your own minâ—sters for the things that we defend against you as in this and other books we haue manifested Secondly if we had no such testimony yet what doe you but make your selues iudges in your own cause that though we bring never so playn evidence against you from the word yet if you see it not or wil not see it must not be needful for saluation More vnsound and popish doctrine hath seldome been taught But I leaue vpoÌ„ you the saying of Christ vnto the Pharisees If you â—ere blinde ye should not haue sinne but now ye say WE SEE therefore your sin remayneth Iohn 9 11. And whereas
and by all the Seers saying turne from your evill wayes c. neverthelesse they would not obey but hardened thâ—ir necks c. 2 Kiâ— 17 13 14 The next place Isa 55.11 sheweth the nature of Gods word which is effectâ—â—ll to make better or worse as he will that sendeth it not alwayes tâ— conuert for Pharaoh was hardned by it not onelie by the officers fâ—r â—â—is honoâ—r is to all the Saincts to haue the high acts of God in their mâ—â—thes and a two edged sword in their hands to execute vengeance in the heathens and corrections among the people c. Psal 149 6 7.9 The fruites whereby false prophets are knowne from true Mat. 7 â—0 are not the effects of their doctrine by converting men onely for so many true prophets heretofore should haue been iudged false but the doctrine it selfe and the works of life and conuersation are the prophets fruites which also may both be good in them that haue no office at all The next place Luk. 1.76 speaketh in partâ—cular of Iohns extraordinary office and work wherein God imployed him and proueth your purpose no more then the other Iohn 1â— 1 2. speaketh of lawfull enterers into the sheepfold by the door and of theeues that clime vp an other way What this will say for your ministers I know not vnlesse to proue them theeues for their entrance into the ministerie by the dâ—ore that is by Christs ordinance iâ— his church they cannot shew no lawfull office or calling haue they to witnâ—sse for them Yea they are ashamed of their office calling and entrance by the Bishops and secretly doe disclaym that to their people pretend their gifts graces and effects for proof of their ministerie 〈◊〉 many of vs that haue dealt with them doe know But what say I secrâ—â—ly nay openly and in print they haue yeelded that thâ—y enter not in by Christ but by a popish and vnlawfull vocatiâ—n The like seemeth â—o be closelie implied in these your arguments where you neither name what office your preachers haue nor how lawfullie they come by it as the reader may obserue The words of the Apostle 1 Cor. 9.1 2 4.15 shew two things 1 â— lawfull office of Apostleship 2 and Gods blessing vpon his labors in that office neither of Which can be shewed by your ministers neither proueth it yoâ—r proposition more then the other places For I hold with you that Gods lawfull ministers are the principall and most excellent ordinarie outward meanes for to work repentance faith c. but not the onely as you would haue it The Assumption namelie that such effects doe follow your preachers doctrine is denied You refer vs for the proof thereof to that which you wrote before and I also refer the reader to that which is before answered And here I wil add a further demonstration that true repentance can not follow your preachers doctrine in as much as they teach not true repentance neyther can teach it because their mouthes are mouzled by your church that they may not speake For thus it hath enacted Whosoeuer shall hereafter affiâ—me that the forme of Gods worship in the Church of England established by law and conteyned in the book of Common prayer c. is a corrupt superstitious or vnlawfull worship of God or conteyneth any thing in it that is repugnant to the scriptures let him be excommunicated ipso facto and not restored but by the Bishop of the place or Archbishop after his repentance and publick revocation of such his wicked errors Whosoeuer shall hereafter affirm that the rites and ceremonies of the church of England by law established are wicked Antichristian or superstitious or such as being commanded by lawfull authority men who are zealously and godly affected may not with any good conscience approue them vse them or as occasion requireth subscribe vnto them let him be excommunicated ipso facto and not restored vntill he repent and publickly revoke such his wicked errors Whosoeuer shall hereafter affâ—rm that the gouerment of the Church of Eng. vnder his Maiestie by Archbishops Bishops Deanes Archdeacons and the rest that doe bear office in the same is Antichristian or repugnant to the word of God let him be excommunicated ipso facto and so continew vntil he repent and publickly reuoke such his wicked errors Whosoeuer shall hereafter affirm or teach that the forme and manner of making and consecrating Bishops Priests and Deacons conteyneth any thing in it that is repugnant to the word of God let him be excommunicated ipso facto not to be restored vntil he repent and publicly revoke such his wicked errors These and the like constitutions hath your representatiue church of England made for maintenance of their worship ministerie ecclesiasticall gouernment rites ceremonies c against which your forward preachers heretofore so earnestly inveighed as being corrupt vnlawfull and antichristian but now behold their mouthes are shut they may not preach repentance for the many abominations that are among you if they doe they are excommunicated ipso facto and then are they neither officers nor members of your church Wherfore your ministers are eyther fain to hold their peace and be such as the Prophet complaineth of that rise not vp in the breaches nor make vp the hedge for the howse of Israel to stand in the battel in the day of the Lord or els they preach for defence of your own inuented worship pompous clergie and laudable ceremonies and are such as the prophet blameth for hauing seen a vayne vision and spoken a lying divination saying the Lord sayth it albeit he hath not spoken What reward then can they exspect for their preaching but as the Lord there threatneth that his hand shal be vpon them they shall not be in th' assembly of his people nor written in the writing of the howse of Israel Wherefore if there be any weight or soundnes in this your argument it may be returned vpon you thus The preachers after whose publick doctrine doe ordinarilie follow impenitency and continuance in an evill â—nd idolatrous estate of life in the hearers ar not the true ministers of God But after the doctrine of the preachers of your best assemblies doe ordinarily follow and appear impenitency idolatry and other fruites of the flesh in the hearers as is proued by the answer to this and to the assumption of your 4 argument for the churches Therfore the preachers of your best assemblies are not the true Ministers of God The 2 Argument SVch Ministers as haue promise of salvation in their present standing ar true Ministers of Christ. But so haue the ministers of our best assemblies Ergo. c. Proof of the assumption Because the promise of saluation is giuen to such Ministers as 1 are faithfull and wise stewards giuing the household meat in due season Mat 24 45.46 2. build gold siluer or stubble on the foundation 1 Cor 3 12 15. 3.
Anwser THe assumption or 2 part of your argument that such are the Ministers of your best assembliâ—s is denyed for these reasons 1 In Ephes 4. it is sayd He that is Christ gaue but your ministers are giuen by the Bishops and for disobedâ—ence to them are taken away agayn from your parishes Christ never gaue such hirelings 2. The ministers mentioned in Eph. 4 are Apostlâ—s Propets Evangelists Pastors and Teachers Your minâ—sters are none of these but Priests Parsons Vicars c. whose very names besides their offices calling c. shew them to be from Antichrâ—st 3. Your ministers gather not the Saints but persecute and scatter them as we know by experieÌ„ce they gather or keep being gathered a coÌ„fused idolatrous multitude svch as is in their parishes the right way of gathering a church by separation from the world they know not or will not acknowledge 4. They doe not the work of Christs ministery which is aright to dispense the word seales censures c according to the scriptures but the work of Antichrists ministery in reading the service book marying burying churching of women the like as in your Leiturgie other church books are set down 5. They edify not the body of Christ but build and fortify the tower of Babel their confused assemblies which were constituted of ignorant idolatrous papists and other profane the very body of Antichrist but the way of truth and such as walke therein are evill spoken of by your Ministers as their books sermons conferences c dayly shew For all which reasons the right conclusion of your argument should be this that the ministers of your best assemblies are the ministers of Antichrist To proue your assumption you giue vs your bare word saying they do gather the Saints from the reprobats making a manifest separatioÌ„ c. This is to proue the same by the same they doe so because they do so wheras all the world may may see they doe not so For the church of Eng. and parish assemblies thereof from which we haue departed consist of all sorts of persons the ministers stand priests by law to the whole parishes whereof all are partakers of the holy things of God every one baptized c. and can you say they are not then builded in and with your church And for separation we know your priests nor the whole parish cannot excommunicate any be they never so blasphemous wicked or licentious that power is in the Bishops courts And how few are excommunicated for their heresies blasphemies atheisme or wicked life who knoweth not but for wel doing you haue excommunicated many And further if any of your ministers should goe about to make a separation or gather any other churches or assemblies then are already by the lawes of the land established and allowed they are ipso facto excommunicated by force of the Canons of your church made in Anno 1603. Can. 9 11 1â— So still the open wicked remayn edified with the rest in your church there is no such separation as you against all mens knowledge doe pretend Your argument therefore is no better then as if Ieroboams priests should thus haue pleaded Those priests that teach Iacob Gods iudgements and Israel his law that put incense before the face of God and and bâ—rnt offrings vpon his alter are the true priests of God Deut 33.10 But these things doe we therefore we are true priests If you say their assumâ—tion is false the like is sayd of yours and your works plainly proue your assumption most vntrue The 4. Argument THose ministers by whose ministery and preaching the overthrow of the kingdome of Antichrist is effected are the ministers of Christ. But such are the ministers of our best assemblies Ergo the true ministers of Christ The proposition is proued 2 Cor 10 4 5.2 Thes 2.8 Reu 14.6.7.8 18 12. 11 3 11. The assumption is manifest for that the ministers of our best assemblies haue weakned and thrown down and doe still fâ—ght and prevayl against the kingdom of Antichrist by the power of Christ 2. Thes 2 8 and Satan cannot cast out Satan Mark 3.23 Answer THere is no cause or person so bad but many haue store of such arguments as you bring for your ministers wherein you assume take for granted that which is most needful to be proued if we wil not beleeu your bold affirmation contrary to our knowledge and the truth of your estate your ministery hath nothing to justify or confirme it The assumption of this argument I deny for your ministers haue not throwen down Antichrists kingdoâ—e but sought rather to hold it vp Here in sted of due proof you tel vs it is manifest for that the ministers of your best assemblies haue weakned c the kingdome of Antichrist Thus again you prou the saâ—e by the sain say that is manifest which is most obscur vnknown uÌ„to vs to discouer your falsehood I wil briefly shew how the scriptures that you bring for your propositioÌ„ do disprou your assumptioÌ„ The weapons of our warfare sayth the Apostle 2 Cor 10 4 5. are not carnall but mighty through God to cast down holds casting down the imaginations and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God c. But the weapons of your ministers warfare haue been carnal not mightie through God For against the remaynders of Antichrists kingdome among you they haue sued to Parliaments that the arm of fleâ—h might throw down the prelates their courts and corruptions but when the state hath not hearkned to them what haue your ministers done but submitted themselues to their spirituall Lords or at least weise ceased their warfare against them and in their sermons and writings haue turned the edge of theâ—r sword against vs that haue departed from Babylon And what haue they throwen down by their preaching these half hundred yeares Is there any of their Romish abuses that they haue got reformed any one of the rabble of Antichristian officers courts canons c. cast out of the Church Nay themselues now are caâ—t out if they speak or write any more against them as they did in times past Doe not all their people stand still in subiection vnder that Leitourgie prelacie priesthood and popish ecclesiasticall gouernment which were set ouer them at the first They haue warred with the Antichristians as did Israel with the Canaanites when they were mixed among them and learned their works and serued their idols which were their ruine Therefore are these enemies become thornes to the sides and pricks to the eyes of your best ministers and people vexing them in the land wherin they dwel as God did threaten Num. 33 55. So when th' Apostle sayth 2 Thes 2.8 that the Lord shall consume Antichrist with the spirit of his mouth and abolish him with the brightnes of his comming may we not hereby learne that Gods spirit is not in your ministers mouthes seing they
of state professors that follow the Emperours religions that they worship not God but the purple robe that is the authority and persons of Prâ—nces Moreouer the church of England hath not Christ for their Mediator because they cannot come vnto God by him nor haue assurance by faith that he maketh intercession for them for that they offer vnto God a worship or seruice which themselues haue made and taken by imâ—tation out of Antâ—christs Massebook which Leitâ—rgie or Diuine seruâ—ce hauing in it also many erroneous superstitious and idolatrous ordiâ—ances rites and ceremonies being not required of God nor warrantable by Christs testament they read out of their book dayly in theâ—r aâ—semblies and offer or obtrude â—t vpon God By meanes whereof they also extinguish the true way of calling vpon God by the help of his spâ—rit as the Apostle teacheth and bring in a fleshly and dead kind of seruice reading other mens words instead of their own praying and calling on the name of the Lord. Which humane devise is contrary to the second commandement that forbiddeth vs to make or submit vnto any similitude or likenes of any thing in heauen earth or vnder the earth in matters concerning the worshâ—p of God And it being against the old couenant or testament which Christ hath confirmed vnto euery â—od and 〈◊〉 against the new testament also which calleth vs vnto a worship of God in spirit and truth hath no promise to be sanctified by Christs Medâ—ation who sanctifieth no idols nor idol seruice or false worshiâ— but contrariweise hath testified their offrings of blood will I not offer nor by make mention of their names with my lipps For asmuch then as the people which worshippeth is not the called iustified sanctâ—fied peâ—ple of Gâ—d but an vnlawfull câ—mmixture 〈◊〉 fall sorts of â—ersâ—ns and forasmuch as the worship it self which they read with and before â—he holy bible and thrust vpon God whither he like it or not is a false dead and vayne inuented worship of their own not commanded of God not iustifiable by his word it cannot be by the doctrine of the scripture or a any promâ—ses therein that Christ should be Mediator for such worship or worshippâ—rs or put any odours vnto such prayers Therâ—fore the church of England is not the true church of God EVery true church of God hath Christ for the Prophet of the same For of 〈◊〉 it is written I will raise them vp a Prophet from among thâ—ir brethren c. and every person which shal not hear that Prophet shal be desered 〈◊〉 the people Dâ—ut 18.18 Act 3 23. But thâ—â—hurch of England hath not Christ for the Prophet of the same Because it hath neyther himself in his own person to teach them for he is now in heaâ—en and there must be vntill the time that all things be restored neyther hath it his appoynted ordinanâ—e of teaching by prophesie or office which if it had Christ were the Prophet of the same as himself sayd if I send any he that receiueth him receiueth me The church of England hâ—th not Christs ordinance of prophesie without office for it is vnknowen vnpractised and vnsufferable among them for priuate men to preach in their aâ—â—emblies they must be ministers allowed by the Ordinary els it is punishable by the law of their church though by the law of Christ all men may prophesie in his church which is to speake to edifying to exhortation and to comfort and all men are exhorted to couet this mâ—re then other spirituall gifts 1. Cor. 14 vers 31.3.1.39 Neyther hath the châ—rch of England Christs appoynted officers to teach which are set down in scripture to be these Apostles Prophets Euangelists Pastors and Teachers Ephe 4.11 Of which the first three serued for the first publishing of the gâ—spel throughout the world the latter two continue stâ—ll vnto the worlds end but in stead of these it hath the hierarchie and ministery of Antichrist to teach the same namely Metropolitan Archbishops Lord Bishâ—ps Deanes c. Priests and Deacons which is none of Christs Ministery eyther in name office calling administration or mayntenance but the very ministery of the man of sinne as he left it in the land and as is to be seen at this day in Rome and other his dominions and in the lawes and canons of the popish church wher ar all the offices that now be in England Thus hauing not the ministery giuen of Christ but a different ministery giuen of Antichrist it followeth also by proportion from Christs words saying he that receiueth him that I send receiueth me and he that receiueth me receiueth him that sent me that the church of England receiuing such as Antichrist the Pope did send hath receiued Antichrist himselfe and so hath intertayned him for their Prophet and not Christ. Now where it is obiected that there are many excellent truthes publikly taught in this church and by this ministery of England it is answered that is not yenough vnlesse it were taught in and according to the ordinance of God For false Prophets teach much truth as is to be seen among Papists Anabaptists Arians and other like heretiks And as the morall good works which heathens doe in honouring their parents and Magistrates giuing almose absteyning from and punishing murder adultery theft c. are not inded good works according to christian religion because they are not done in obedience to Gods word by persons that are called iustified and sanctified by that word and so not done in faith and consequently cannot please God even so the theologicall works which Antichristians doe in preaching the truth praying ministring the sacraments c. are not indeed works pleasing vnto God because they are not done by persons that please him for alwayes the man must be accepted before his work can be and such persons please him not as without his calling and sending presume to administer his holy things It is not therefore the work but the word of God that sanctifieth the work which we must look vnto for as by this the vertuous heroik and religious acts of the Patrâ—archs and other holy men differ from the like acts of Pagans and infidels so also by this the difference iâ— to be put between the works and administrations of trâ—e and false Christians And seing the ministers of England are not by Christ called and sent as the better sort of themselues heretofore haue confessed so haue not his word to warrant their administration whatsoeuer good doctrine they teach it proues them no more to be true ministers then the excellent doctrines and prophesies of the soothsayer Balaam will proue him to be a true minister of God or that the Moabites or Madianites hauing him to sacrifice prophesie and teach among them had an ordinance or prophet of God See Deut. 18 10.11.14.15 c. Agayn Christ is not the Prophet of this
before is obsâ—rued That onely Sayncts that is a people forsaking all known sinne of which they mâ—y be conuinced doing all the known will of God increasing and abiding euer thrâ—â— are the onely matter of a visiâ—le church Thâ—s Position I deâ—ey and disclaym also the errors which he gathereth from â—t and therefore will spend no time in answering it but refer Mr Ben to them that haue so spoken or writen if any be This we hold 〈◊〉 let vs se what Mr Bernard can say against it that Saincts by calling are the onely mater of a true visible church Yet withall we hold that â—any be calleâ— but few chosen That â—he power of Christ that is authority to preach to administer the sacramâ—â—â—s and to exercise the censures of the Church belongeth to the whole Châ—rch yea to euery one of them And not the principall members thereof This opinion he calleth the A b c of Brownisme but he may put it if he please in the Criss-crosse rew of Bernardisme he himselfe being the first that I euer heard to vtter such a position This point he much vrgeth and â—relleth vs with he mentoned it in his Forâ—speech to the Reader thus Thâ— Paâ—ist sayth Christs ruling power is in the Pope nay sayth the Protestant iâ— is in the ecclestasticall gouernours Bishops may sayth the Puritan it is in the Presbyterte nay sayth the Brownist it is in the body of the Congregation the multitude called the Church And in this beginneth Brownâ—sme c. Here first I require of Mr Bern. that he produce his autors and shew the book or writing where we haue auouched such things He tells his reader of all the errors that he châ—rgeth vs with that we hold cannot deny them being already auouched vnder our hands and that he will not wrong vs in setting them down c. Yet durst he not as every honest writer writer in suâ—h controuersies vse to doe anâ— if he doe not in his next the reader may estâ—em of his truth and honesty as it is Next for the poynt it selfe I answer Christs ruling power which the Papists say is in the Pope we say not as this man calumniateth vs that it is in the body of the Congregation the multitude but in Christ himselfe and that the Pope is Antichrist not for taking into his hands the power of the mulâ—itude but of Chrâ—st to rule and gouern the church as Head of the same Agayn Christs ruling power which the Protestants say is in the Bishops the Prelates we doe not say it is in the multitude but in Christ himselfe for he onely is Lord of the Church he onely is Archbishop or Chief pastor he only walketh among the seuen golâ—en Candlesticks as Ouerseer of the seuen châ—rches ruling them by his lawes canâ—ns and decrees Whereas the Bishops of England are sâ—irituall Lords and one is Archâ—ishop and Primate over all they rule many châ—rches and minâ—sters makâ— new canons and decrees in their Conuocatiâ—n howse prescrâ—be formes and words of prayer and of preaching by their leiturgie and homilies and other like spirituall jurisdiction apperteynâ—ng to Chrâ—st alone thus are they very Antichrâ—sts and to â—ther with their exorbitant usurped power ought vtterly to be abolished out of all Chriâ—tâ—an churches Neyther that ruling power of Christ which the Pâ—ritans whereby I suppâ—se Mr Bern. meaneth the Christian reformeâ— churches in other couÌ„tries say is in the Presbitery doe we say is in the multitude for we acknowledge Christ to haue ordeyned a Presbitâ—ry or Eldership and that in every church for to teach and rule them by his own word and lawes vnto whome all the multitude the members the Sainâ—ts ought to obey and submit themselâ—es as the scriptures teach And for the particular branches of this 6. Error that Mr Bernard chargeth vs with That the power of Christ that is authority to prâ—ach belongeth to the whole church yeâ— to every one of them c. we deny it aâ— he setts it doâ—n and for the help of tâ—e reader whome he abuseth will distinctly set down our opinion The word of God is giuen to all and every member of the Church to read and exercise priuately but publickly in the Church there is a double vse 1 in prophesie and 2 in office as the Apostle distinguisheth The office of teaching is layd vpon some few chosen ordeyned therevnto Into this office may no man intrude or vsurp it without a lawfull calling This we haue long since published as a paâ—t of our faith Confess Art 19.20.21 Teaching in way of prophesie which the Apostle treateth of 1 Cor 14 is absolutely vs lawfull for all women in thâ— church but men so many as haue the gift and ability from God may all proâ—hesie one by one of which poynt see our Conâ—â—ss Art 34. And this is that we hold concerning preaching which whether it be an error and Mr Bern. hath so proued it let the indifferent reader judge For the second poynt authority to administer the sacraments that it shoâ—ld belong to euery one of thâ— church we vtterly deney and maruell at Mr Bernards vnconscionable dealing with vs for in oâ—r Confession he coâ—ld not but see vnlesse he winked this plainely expressed no sacraments to be administred vntill the Pastors or Teachers be chosen and ordeyned intâ—â—heir office The third and last that euery one hath authority to execute the censures of the church we also deny but hold that euery member hath authority to rebâ—ke hâ—s brother for sinne and if he repent to forgiue him if not to take wâ—tneâ—â—es if yet he repent not to tel it to the church which church hath Christs power to iudge all within the same and cast out from among them all wicked men Now that every one hath not this power nor yet any member or members apart we haue plainly signified in our Conâ—â—ssiâ—n Art 24. If this be an error in Mr Bernards account let him by the scriptures confute it not onely in vs but in a principall minister of his own châ—rch D Fâ—lk who hath written that the keyes of the kingdome of hâ—auen whatsoeuer they are be committed to the whol church and not to one pâ—â—soÌ„ only as Câ—â—rian Augustine Chrysostome Ierome and al the ancient Doctors agreaâ—ly oâ—ly to the scriptures doe confesse So then for popular gouernment which Mr Bern. would traduce vs by we hold it not we approue it not for if the multitude gouern then who shal be gouerned Christian liberty which all haue is one thing the raynes of gouernment which some haue is another thing Now how farr tâ—e peoples right and liberty and benefit thereby eytendeth would require a larged scourse to shew which is not my purpose here It is ye noâ—gh to mainfest the iniquity of this aduersary who would father such errâ—rs on vs dealing like his predecessors the Papists who in this weise
vnderstood of the ordinary cathedrall parish assemblies of England which all are by one line For defense of these churches Mr Bern. refers the reader to an other treatise after and so doe I to the answer of the same following Yet least he should seem â—o say nothing Mr Ber excepteth 1 That they haue no false head for they hold Iesus Christ. I answer so might Ieroboam haue pleaded for himself his people that they had no false head but the true God which brought them out of the Land of Aegypt Yet were they a false church The Papists Papists and Anabaptists at this day hold and professe Iesus Christ yet such errors are among them as Christ in deed is deneyed the parishes of England professe him also but such is their estate otherweise that they haue him not truly for a head prophet priest or king vnto them as befor is proued But it is yenough for Mr Bernard to affirme without proofe and correction with him is a needfuller argument in this case tâ—eÌ„ iâ—struction For when the Priests liâ—s preserue not knowledge how should men be answered but by the gaole or gallowes 2. The matter sayth he is not false and to shew this he noteth a difference between No matter true matter and false matter No matter are thâ—y which make no profession of Christ at all as Iewes Turks and Pagans True visible matter are all such as openly professe this mayn truth that Iesus the sonne of Mary is the sonne of God Christ the Lord by whome onely alone they shal be saued And false matter is contrary to this true matter I answer this false matter is very rawly set down for being contrary to the former true it may imply Iewes and Turks whome he made no matter and then it confoundeth his own distinction But if he mean that they which professe not Christ rightly and truely as he setteth downe are a false matter then say I â—t will euince the matter of their Churches to be false seing there is not aright and true profession of Chrâ—st made by their parishes But Mr Ber. leauing out this word rightly truly tels vs they all professe this fayth as is apparent 1 by the doctrine of their church vidz that in the Harmony of Confessions 2 by the same publickly preached 3 by the same mainteyned by their lawes writings and blood of holy martyrs I answer if all this were granted yet will it not proue Mr Bernards purpose for some may write and preach the truth the Magistrate may establish it by law and some may seal it with their blood and yet not al the nation be a true matter for Christs church except they also make lâ—ke profession Which that the parishes of England doe not the profanenes of the multitudes shew But least I be thought to speake of envy let vs hear the testimony of their own ministers and such as were no fauourers of vs at all as their malicious writings of vs sheweth Mr Nichols esteemed a forward preacher among them sayth We finde by great experience and I haue now fiue and twenty yeres obserued it that in those places where there is not preaching and priuate conferring of the Minister and the people the most part haue as litle knowledge of God and of Christ as Turks and Pagans To confirme this he giues vs an example in his own flock For I haue been in a parish sayth he of fowr hundred communicants and maruelling that my preaching was so little regarded I tooke vpon me to conferre with euery man and woman before they receiued the communion I asked them of Christ what he was in his person what his office how firme came into the world what punishment for sinne what becomes of our bodies being rotten in the graue and lastly whither it were possible for a man to liue so vprightly that by wel doing he might winn heauen In all the former questions I scarse found ten in the hundred to haue any knowledge but in the last question scarse one but did affirme that man might be saued by his own wel doing and that he trusâ—ed he did so liue that by Gods grace he should obtâ—yn euerlasting life by serâ—ing of God and god prayers c. Now then this being so tell me I prâ—y yâ—u sayth Mr Niâ—hols first for Athâ—isme whether these be any bettor then Aâ—hâ—isâ—s whiâ—h know not Christ And tell me I pray you Mr Bernard whether thâ—â—â— be a â—rue matter such as Christs church consisteth of But you would â—aâ—â— vs beleeue the Bishops and Priests of Engl. are wondrous men for iâ—â—hey write books or preach sermons to the people their whole Dioceses and Parishes must needs be estemed conuerts and profelytes Such effect grace was neuer heard of before since the world began More absurd it is to say that the good lawes of the Magistrate doe make a profane idolatrous multitude true professors but most of all that because some few were martyrs therefore they that killed the martyrs professe Christ truly If these be not pregnant reasons then M. Bernards book is little worth 3. But he proceedeth and sayth The visible form is not false which is the vniting of vs unto God and one to another uisibly This he would proue by 3 reasons 1 because the word is preached and offred to the people 2 Because of the peoples open profession of their fayth vnto the doctrine God working in them a will to receiue it 3 because the Lords supper is in vse among them Sundry scriptures are alleged to shew that thus the primitiue churches were planted and constituted all which we grant but when he comes to apply these to themselues he barely assumes that thus is their case neyther answering any reason of ours to the contrary nor shewing any reason of his own to confirme that which he sayth And what cause in the world what church is so bad but may thus be pleaded for He knowes wel that we except and the visible estate of that church their own monuments records complaints c. doe bear witnes with us that they were planted in this religion and profession by force of the Magistrates law that multitudes are profane that many thowsands want the preaching of the word that they ar al compelled to come to church be baptised receiue the communion and the like and what profession the poor ignorant people make is before manifested If he would heare more of their profession and subiection to the word and ministery Mr. Nichols shewes it thus How little haue they esteemed the godly and learned ministers How content they be with simple and ignorant men How hardly are they drawn to pay duties which law hath appoynted How many quarrels they pick against painfull ministers And how little reuerence they giue to any that are faithfull How they follow their couetousnes and pleasures How they fil al sorts of courts with brawles foolish and
wilfull strifes and sutes and demurres in law with murthers whordomes dronkennes and all disorder Loe this is the commendations of the professant people of the Church of Engl whome Mr Bernard pleadeth for As for their constitution and vniting together into parishes dioceses proâ—inces and at last in to one nationall church with an Archbishop his high court ouer all it is before shewed to be a Râ—misâ—â—â—tâ—oâ— and antichristian nâ—t iustifiable by the law or testament of Christ. 4. Lastly the visiâ—le properties are he sayth not false â—ut true namely thâ—se 1 Conâ—inuance in heariâ—g of the dâ—ctâ—ine of Christ receiued and vsing of thâ— sacraments and prayer 2 The holâ—ing out of this truth an◠〈◊〉 sacraâ—ents as 〈◊〉 displâ—â—ed against the eneâ—y 3 A care for the welfare of all and euery one for 〈◊〉 and ech for oâ—her But all this buildâ—ng is on a sâ—ndy ground for their estaâ—e as before is mâ—nifâ—sted beâ—ng euill the longâ—r they continew in it the worse it is fâ—r them Contâ—nuance to read â—he seruice book and homilies to â—rostitute tâ—e Sacraâ—ents to the profane to administer them after a â—opish mâ—nnâ—r by a false mâ—nâ—sterâ— these are the banners and ensignes of Antichrist disâ—layed â—n al his aâ—â—emblies that poor sowles haue cause to complayn aâ— in the Psalm they haue sâ—t vp thâ—iâ— banners for signes As for the care of the welâ—are of all c. which Mr. Bâ—rn boasteth of let Mr. Nichols foresayd complaynt of the people on the one hand and the Bishops Preists open neglect contempt of the people on the other hand shew what care they haue one of another For how many sowles are miserably famished by dum negligent and non resident priests evill beasts and slow bellies How many preachers are put out for not subscribâ—ng and using the ceremonies c. These that I gâ—ue no other instances shew what care there is of mens sowless amâ—â—â— them which he that commendeth shewes himselfe carelesse what he speakes or writes OVr 9. error is that we say Al thâ—â—r ministâ—rs are false ministers Against this Mr Bernard allegeth for the truth of their ministery that they are sent of Christ according to his ordinance in his church as is manifested by thâ— thâ—t thâ—y are quallâ—fiâ—d with good gifts they are called by the church such also as dâ—e diligently and faithfully preach and so preach Christ as many thâ—reby doeth ar and belâ—eue euen confirming their calling by the blessed successe and effâ—ct of thâ—iâ— labâ—urs Rom. 10.14.15 1 Cor. 9.2 First if Mr Bernard would indeed haue refuted our error if such it be he shoulâ— haue answered the reasons which in many writings we haue brâ—ught aâ—â—inst theâ—r minâ—stery Bâ—t he found that all too heauie Theâ— for the reasons that â—â—msâ—lfe allegâ—th they are naked and without all coâ—firmâ—tiâ—n such as Paâ—istâ— Anabaptists or any other Antichristians might â—llege for theâ—selâ—es Fâ—r a Papist wil â—oast as wel as he that their Priests are quâ—lifiâ—â— wiâ—h goâ—d gifts called by the church doe deligently anâ— faithfully preâ—ch so as 〈…〉 hâ—â—r anâ— beleeue Bâ—t I will answer ech of â—is partâ—câ—lâ—râ— Their qâ—alificatioÌ„ is wiâ—h Good gâ—fts is no proffe of a lawful ministâ—ry seing â— many priuate men haâ—e as good gifts as they â—vsurpers and intrâ—derâ— may alâ—o haue as excellent gifts as lawfull officers â— Iesuites Sâ—mmâ—ries and ther instuments of Satan are knowen to be as learned and well furnished with gifts as Mr Bern. and his brethren 4 Moreouer I deny that the principall ministers of England are qualified or able to execute their office the Archbishops Bishops Arch deaâ—ons c. that haue whole Dioceses and Prouinces vnder their charge cannot possibly performe the duty of true ministers vnto them 5 And fiâ—â—lly a number of ignorant Sir Iohns can read their Leiturgie vnto their parisâ—es and haue no other good ministeriall quallity The second thing their calling by the church which afterward he explâ—yneth thâ—s beiâ—g examined found fiâ— and so are elect and ordeyned this 〈…〉 vpon the sands for the church of England not being a true châ—rch of Gâ—d as is before manifested hath no power from God to call and â—rdeyn miâ—isters But besiâ—es this I would fayn learne of Mr Bern. what Châ—â—ch it is that examined elected and ordeyned his Lords grace of Canterbâ—â—y for Arâ—hbâ—shopâ— then whether the same or some other châ—rch examined elected and ordeyned the Diocesan Bishops the Deans the Archdeacons and the rest of that Lordly priesthood then what church ordeyned the parish Priests and Deacons These things if he dare vndertake to deal in and bring to the triall will be found more agreable to the Canons of the Pope then to the testament of Christ. Their office it selfe Mr Bern. balketh quite and tels vs not what functions this pompous clergie haue to execute yet is it most needfull to be known for how els shall men discerne their administration To beginâ— therefore with his Arch Lord of Cant. the Angel of the church of Engl. what office â—ath â—e to execute of a Pastor or of a Pope If he be Pastor of this â—â—â—rch what be the inferior Bishops pety Pastors or Pety popes what offices 〈◊〉 the Suffragans Chancellâ—rs deanes Archdeacons Commissâ—â—â—s â—ffiâ—ials Dâ—ctors Proctors and the residew of that army what offices haue the Prebâ—ndaries Canons Pâ—tiâ—anons Chanters Subchanters and other like bâ—rds of the cloister what offices haue the Bishops bay lifts the Priests the half priests or Deacons the Parsons and Vicars the Churchwardens Clerks Sextius Mr Bern. affirmeth that the Lord onely ordeyneth offiâ—â—s in his church 1 Cor. 12. and that the church it selfe cannot doe this but Iesus Christ both Lord and King Now seing he hath ouerskipped in this book al the stately offices that are in his church let him in his next shew if he can the offices that Christ in his testament hath appoynted this troup of horsemen and charrets vnto Now for their administration he telleth vs they preach the true doctrine or Christ administer the sacraments performe their office faithfully and liue câ—nsâ—iâ—nably and Christ doth assist such graciously in conuerting soules and â—hâ— peâ—ple doe approue of them Fayr words and such as it seemeth Mr Bern. useth to feeed his flock with but if one deny that thus it is he must tary for proof till an other treatise come forth it was yenough in this to affirme it so to be and for his Lords grace to confirme it Wel to let passe the multitude of complâ—ints and testimonies to the contrary in their own books let him shew how it is possible for the Archbishop of the church of Engl. or the inferior Bishops to preach and performe their office faithfully vnto so many hundreds of parishes thowsands of people as are vnder their charge Let the infinite number of soules that are famished vnder them speake how often their Chief-shepheard of Cant haue fed them with the word and sacraments
no Bishops then doth it follow most euidently that all the English Bishops be no Bishops at al as hauing no other coÌ„secratioÌ„ then from them And if our English Prelates be no true Bishops then surely nâ—yther be they Priâ—sts or Minisâ—ers or Deacons that be ordeyned by them and so consequently the congregation of Eâ—gâ— by Mr Sutcliffs argumeÌ„t not thâ— tru church of Christ. This is the Catholiâ—s argument and plea which how Mr Bern. or his brethren will wel answer and stand also to that which they haue written against vs I cannot tel Finally against that often boasting of the work and effect of the ministery of Engl I will oppose a testimony of one of their chief miâ—isters yet our professed aduersary that it cannot be thought he was partial for vs at all Mr Gifford is the man that thus hath written Somâ— dâ—e wonder how it should come to passe that among vs there should be so many which being borne since the gospell was restored in this land are so zealously addicted unto Popery which thâ—y neuer did know and so utter enemies to the Gospel which they hear But if they weigh the causes of this deadly mischeef they will cease wondring at that and rather wonder that there be no more For how can it bâ— so long as there be so many abuses in the ministery but that many shall stumble and loath the Gospell For from thence as it is manifest the cheife cause of this euill doth spring True it is that our ministery doth fight against them but yet in such sort that it doth greatly increase them Seeming and pretending to tread vpon those cockatrise eggs for to breake them and so â—o destroy utterly thâ— viperous generation when as indeed they sit vpon them and so hatch the broâ—ds of this euill kinde and bring them forth in great plenty For behold a number cry out against popery and proclaym vtter defiance in speach but their doings are such that for euery one which they conuert to the gâ—spel they cause an hundred to reuolt to be hardned in their errors or to fall into flat Atheisme While many coÌ„trary to the professioÌ„ wâ—ich they made when they entred setting aside the care of sowles not esteeming nor regarding what become of them studie most how to clime high and to satisfy their ambitious desire of honour taking togither liuings couetously and greedily not caring who feed the flock so they may â—â—me by the fleese Moreouer the door hath been opened also â—o let into the church 〈…〉 and swarme of such as are more like the priests of Ieroboam then ministerâ— of the gospell not onely unlearned idols which haue mouthes and speake nâ—t which being weary of their occupations and couet to liue easily and to that end are entred but also riotous dicers gamesters quaffers quarrellers adulterers and such like If the matter were secret I should doe amisse to make it manifest but when it is open in the sight and view of all men who can complayn iustlie when it is spoken of Let this record of Mr Gâ—ffords for the effect of their administration and their good quallities besides togither with Mr Bernards former doctrine for their first calling and ordination by the popish prelates shew whether it be not like that this ministery will ere long make accord with the mother church of Rome that hatched it and for whom it againe hatcheth cockatrices eggs The tenth error that we should hold is that their worship in Engl. is a false worship To proue this to be an error Mr Bern. bringeth these reasons 1. That they worship no false God I answer Neyther did Ieroboam the son of Nebaâ— who made Israel to syn yet vsed he a false worship 1 King 12. 2. That they worship the true God with no false worship for they haue the true word preached the true sacraments and their prayers are such as maâ— be warranted by the word c. I answer this is but taking for granted that which he should proue for he knowes well that we deney thâ—se things and by many reasons in sundry bookes none of which Mr Bern. answereth haue disproued their preaching ministring of Sacraments booke prayer c. Seing he will answer nothing before written by vs let him in his next booke prooue that the Apocrypha scriptures and homily bookes which they read in Gods worship are his true word that the sacraments which the vnpreaching priests minister to their profane parishioners by their popish leitourgie are true sacraments let him approue by Gods word the obseruation of all their holy dayes fasting dayes with their prescript peculiar seruice briefly let him shew warrant for his seruice book the making and vse thereof with all the popish contents therein These are strange incense new forgeries of their own neuer appoynted by Christ or his Apostles wherefore we doubt not to affirme their worship to be false euen an humane inuention With these things Mr Bern. medleâ—h not but bringeth proof for other matters which we neuer denyed and referreth vs to an after treatise which now next followeth to be answered Yet ere he leaueth us he will utter all his hart and from his inner store powreth out against vs 12. errors moe whâ—ch he will not spend time he saith in conâ—utâ—tion of they are so absurd and false being also as he thinketh conâ—ured by the former Though nothing need be answered where no shew of proof is made yet to satisfy the reader and shew him the vanity of this aduersary I will briefly touch them all and they be these 1 That their congregations as they stand are all and euery of them vncapable before God to chuse them ministers though they desire the meanes of saluation Al such as desire the means of saluation in what congregations soeuer haue ower and liberty from God to separate from all euill and ioyne togither in good and so to enioy Gods blessings in his ministery or any other part of the Gosâ—el But we hold that no false church hath power from God to chuse ministers which he hath ordeyned onely for true churches 1 Cor. 12.28 Eâ—h 4 12 Râ—m 12.4 5 c. we wonder with what face any Christian can say otherweise If Mr Bern. make the error to be in holding them false churches then is it the same with the 8. error before answered and is here bâ—t idly of him repeated 2. That God in their best assembliâ—s is worshipped after a false manner An other idle repetition of that which before he made our Tenth error which there was answered 3. That baptisme is not administred into the fayth of Christ simply but into the fayth of Bishops and Church of Engl. This I think is Mr Bernards vncharitable collection not our Position Though we hold baptisme among them to be administred neyther by a true minister nor after a lawfull manner but according to their own prescript Leitourgie and to the seed of
scriptures they allege haue been before examined and the ministers of Engl. being put into the other ballance are found all too leight But if it were true that they had the meanâ— yet their argument is false if they conclude of the effect Israel had farr better meanes then England I am sure for the Prophets and Apostles and Christ himselfe preached among them Yet loe he complayneth that he had laboured in vayne for Ierusalem killed the Prophets and stoned those that were sent vnto them and the Lord by his Apostles stretched forth his hand to a disobedient and gainsaying people And shall we thinke that the Prâ—ests of Engl. haue such power and grace tied to their lips that because they haue â—reached therefore the whole nation is a true church Or dotâ— there such vertue proceed from these ministers as can make the multituâ—e of swaggering professors atheists blasphemers and all sorts of profane which swarme in the land to be turned Christians worthy to be washed and fed with the body and blood of Christ. and yet continue atheists and profane as before what wondrous effect shall we next hear of but that their preaching hath conuerted the Diuils also But let us hear what testimony M. Gifford hath left behâ—nde him of the graâ— learned prâ—achers of the church of Engl among whom himselfe was one and of the people in their parishes The Diull sayth he is content those preachers should ride vpon his back because he is sure they will not spurg all him they be very gentle riders Doe ye not thinke that if they should set forth Gods word as they ought and spread the light that all wicked of which their parish is full would storme and fret against them the Diuill himselfe would fiâ—k about if they should spur him but a little But they can tell a smooth tale in the pulpit garnished with some merry story for to make the people merry or els some old rotten allegory or some far fetched matter out of some great writers that their people may be at their wits end and admit them A man would thinke to see the people come out of the church blowing that they were fed as ful as tikes when they goe home with emty bellies This I dare warrant if it be not so let me loose both mine eares that gâ—e through the parishes of these graâ—e and learned Diuines and except such as run to fetch their victuals otherwhere ye shall not finde fiâ—e among fiue skore which are able to vnderstand the necessary grounds and principles of religion and yet the People will say they be excellent deep men But I loue not those welles which are so deep that a man can draw no water out of them Loe here the means which the parishes of England doe enioy and worthy effects that follow If Mr Barrow or any of vs should I haue written this it would haue been counted sâ—â—ffing râ—yling blasphemy but now that Mr Gifford so worthy a patron of the church hath thus recorded I hope the witnes wil be thought irrefragable And now let these godly ministers examine Mat 28. Eph. 4 and see if there they can finde these meanes which they enioy iustified But they proceed and tel vs in their second reason that their whole church maketh profession of the true faith For the ConfessioÌ„ of their church tegither togither with the Apologie thereof and those articles of religion agreed vpon in the Conuocation howse anno 1562 doe proue this euidently But herein they would deceiue the simple euidently for first profession of the true sayth when men in practise doe deny it maketh them not a true church but they are as the Apostle sayth abominable Then for profession it selfe if it be by constreynt for fear of punishment by mâ—n that otherweise are profanâ— lewd and dissolute and enemies to the gospell this is no true profession such as will make men a true church for they ought to receiue and professe the truth willingly and gladly Psal 110.3 Act. 2 41. Now we know that with them men were and are forced to the profession they make and if it were at their own choise many thowsands would professe otherwise Their own acts and Monuments besides manifest experience doe witnes this For Mr Fox reporteth that when K. Edward had established this church and religion many people in Cornwal Deuenshire and other places not onely misliked it but openly rebelled for their old idolatrie The Preists though some allowed yet others dissembled and many carelessly conâ—emned all and still excercised their old monâ—ed Popery The Iustices c were not onely slack in furthering of religion but hindred so much as lay in them the Kings proceedings c. So that ciuill force not Christian zelo made men Protestants in that Kings dayes wherefore at his death hauing gotten Q. Mary they soâ— vp agayn their Romish superstition and persecuted the other vnto the death Til Q. Elisah came and inforced them the second tyme to put away theâ—r Latin Masse and images and receiue that English seruice and ceremonies whâ—ch since haue preuayled to this day Whâ—ch how willingly the people yeâ—lded vnto Mr Nichols testimony to omit all others before alleged sheweth And How wel this religion is liked of now after so many yeres let the multitude of church papists in England shew together with the whole rowâ— of rebels in Ireland all which are of the communion of the church of Engl hauing the same Bishops Priests service â— the English and Irish that dwel in the country being ioyned togither in one body and brotherhood Then adde to these papists the profane time-seruers such as M. Gifford deseribeth thus I know there be many which care not for the Pope but yet beleeue much of his doctrine they be those which we call Atheists of no religion but look whatsoeuer any prince doth set forth that they will profess and add vnto them those other firarmes in the church of England that Mr Chaderton complayneth of eronius and hereticall sectaries witches charmers sorcerers murtherers theeues adulterers liars c and all these togither being compelled by law into one church and brotherhood can any man doubt now of that which these ministers say that their whole church maketh profession of the true faith The Confession Apologie and Conuocation-howse articles are strange proofs of the peoples profession If a few men in their Studies or Consistories write books or articles of religion and send them a broad must all people that see or hear them wil they nil they needs be counted professors of that religion yea such also as neuer heard of them in their liues nor caÌ„not tel what they meaÌ„e Surly these ministers ar eyther very ignorant or carelesse what they say when they call this an euident proof The churches in France and Belgia haue published Confessions and Articles also better then those in England yet
are there thowsands and ten thowsands dwelling among them that neyther so professe nor are members of their churches But if it were granted that the publicke writings articles canons c. are to be esteemed the faith profession of all Engl. yet we deny them to make profession of the true faith for their Seruice book homilies book of Ordination with the impious canons confirming all the Romish idolatries Antichristian clergie and ceremonies that are among them excommunicating ipso facto all that speake against them this is no true Christian profession whatsoeuer other truthes are mixed with them For as the Papists holding many good grounds of religion in generall yet by other additions and contradictions do ouerthrow the truth so is it in England as before in this treatise and in many others hath been proued and after shall further appear Whereas these Ministers confidently deny that their church accounteth any one for her childe or member that doth not professe the faith of Christ in some measure it is nothing but a vayn flourish For was there euer such grossnes in the deepest gulfe of Popery as to deney Christ utterly and not to professe him in some measure Nay it could not be the throne of Antichrist vnlesse he did professe Christ. It is wel known none are baptised among the Papists but they professe the very same faith that is now professed at the baptisme in Engl. namely that which they call th' Apostles Creed So then what haue these godly ministers sayd more then the simplest papist in the world could haue sayd for his church Now in that they make this a colour as if the profane and wicked were not accounted children of the church they shew themselues to be the snare of a fowler in al their wayes yet set they a snare so slight that euery man may breake it For who knowes not that there be multitudes of profane and wicked persons in the land Who knowes not that the whole land generally is baptised Yea the baptisiing of the seed of the most wicked is not onely practised but befended in print by their late Archbishop D. Whitg who pleaded what if it be the child of a dronkard or of an harlâ—t what if the Parents be papists what if they be heretiks c. shall not their children be baptised Yes he will haue it to be a common passage for all uile persons Good and euil sayth he clean and vnclean holy and profane must needs passe by it And at baptisme their seruice book teacheth the priest to say of euery one we receiue this child into the congregation of Christs flock Being thus receiued not one of a thowsand wicked persons are euer excommunicated but are fostered in the church vntill their death and then the priest is taught agayn to say that it hath pleased God to take vnto himselfe the sowle of their dear brother there departed and so he committeth his body to the ground in sure and certayn hope of resurrection to eternal life This being the generall state of the land as all men know what dissemblers are these Ministers to intimate as if their church acknowledged not the open wicked for her children and members Mr Gifford when tyme was yeilded farr otherweise I confesse sayth he that our church if ye vnderstand the whole assembly is ful of al wicked vices There are a number among vs which are of your brood speaking to a â—apist whâ—se euill life is seen wel yenough there arâ— a very great number of meer worldlings which doe not greatly esteem any religion although they seem now because of lawes to allow and fauour our side c. Now hauing sayd somewhat for themselues such as it is they cauil at our description of a church when we say that it is a company of faithfull people that truely worship Christ and reaâ—â—ly obey him This say these Ministers is vtterly vntrue if it be understood of the visible church This is strange What would they haue vs describe the Church to be a company of infidels or a company of faithfull and of infidels togither when Paul teacheth that there is no communion between such 2 Cor 6.14.15 or should we say a people that falsely worship Christ Indeed if so we held we might wel returne to their Church of England for there is false worship more then yenough The Apostle writing to the visible church of Ephesus calleth them Saincts and thâ— faithfull in Christ Iesus Wil they say that this also was utterly untrue Their own Articles of religion in England say thus the visible church of Christ is a congregation of faithfull people c. and is this also vttâ—rly vntrue But let vs hear their reason why this should be vntruth For say they if euery one that the church may account a visible member be truely faithfull how is our Sauiour to be vnderstood when he compareth the churâ—h or ministery thereof to a draw net gathering aswel that which must be cast away as good fish c. Me thinks these godly ministers f should be ashamed so to depraue not onely our meaning but our very words that when we say of faithfull people that truely worship they wil turne and transâ— lace them to truely faithfull and then gather as afterwards they doe as if men may not account any to be members of the church by their outward profession vnlâ—sse they know them to haue true faith which the Lord onely is able to disâ—â—rne Could any reasonable man thus construe our words or gather from them vnlesse he purposely would depraue especially knowing as these men know wel our constant witnesse otherweise who esteeme of all men by their outward profession and walking and haue long since published in our Confussion that many hypocrites will lurke in the church whiles it is on earth But thus it pleased these men to abuse vs before the simple reader Their third reason for their church is that they hold teach and maynteyn every part and article of Gods holy truth which is fundamentall The proof of this they would haue to be seen in their Confessions Catechisnes and Articles of religion published and approued of in their church This reason is like if not the very same with the former which sâ—ake also of professing the true faith as was to be seen in their Confâ—sâ—â—â—n Apologie Articles What meane these ministers to cloy their reader so ofteÌ„ with one dish of meat a little diuertly dressed It is doubtlesse for want of better store Yet this whâ—ch they bring is very vnsauoury for it is not seasoned with the salt of Gods couenant First for that poynt of fâ—ndamentall truth which they so long haue stood vpon and coâ—ld neuâ—r be gotten distinctly to shew what truth is fundamental and what not we haue now these ministers resolute judgement of it thus The onely fundamental truth in religion is this That Iesus Christ the Son of
and idolatrous outward worship of God which is polluted with the writings of men vidz with read slinted prayers homilies catechismes c. Here let it first be obserued that whereas Mr Barrow whose books they would seem to answer hath giuen 4. causes of our separation namely the 1. false worship 2. profane people 3 false ministery and 4. Antichristian hierarchie these godly ministers like the vniust steward that set down fifty for fiue skore haue contracted the 4. causes into 2. for what cause let him that readeth consider Secondly in the two which they professe to answer they keep not the words by Mr Barrow there set downe as to begin with the first he sayth For that the profane vngodly multitudes without exception of any one person are with them receiued into and reteyned in the bosome of the church These ministers set down the poynt to be about the not gathering by due meanes Whereas if it were granted that they had due meanes of gathering yet the exception made is of force against them rather more then lesse for they that haue the true meanes of gathering a church and yet gather it amisse the greater is their sinne Now to the particulars whereas Mr Barrow had first shewed by many scriptures and reasons what manner persons were to be the matter of Gods church and then compared here with the people of the church of Engl. where all sorts of wicked persons are admitted kept in communion to this the ministers answer First that they might lawfully be accounted a true church though it could not appear that they were at the first rightly gathered For euen as the Disciples might be wel assured of Christs bodily presence amongst them when they saw and felt him though they could not haue discerned which way or how he could possibly come in so may we esteem them a true church of whose present profession and faith we are wel assured though we cannot see by what meanes they were first gathered This answer of theirs is full of errour and frawd for not to speake how they corrupt Mr Barrowes words in the places which they quote by leauing out things of speciall importance first they blamed because all profane wicked persoÌ„s ar of the mater their church they tel us they may esteem them a true church of whose present profession and fayth they are wel assured If this answer be direct and to the purpose then we must beleeue that the godly ministers are wel assured of the present profession and faith of all the lewd profane irreligious and wicked persons in the realm which are members of the church of Engl. Against these was the exception made for these the answer is giuen vnlesse they answer their own fansies and now what assurance the ministers have of such mens faith let the faithfull iudge Secondly the similitude which they bring is a great abuse of the reader whome they would blinde with a false comparison which if it were duely made would make against them thus As the disciples might be wel aâ—â—ured of Christs bodily presence when they saw and felt him c. so men may he wel assured of the wickeds bodily presence in the church of Engl when they see and feel them as who doe not But now as these men haue made the parable what likelihood of truth is there in it for iustifying the vngodly If a man seeing a Priest in bed with one of the Popes courtizans should blame him for this fornication and an other to defend him should plead thus As we are sure that Sarah was Abrahams wife though we cannot tell when or how they were married so may wee esteeme these two of whose present chascity we are wel assured to be lawfull man and wife though we cannot tel how they came together would this be a sufficient defence Yet loe when Mr Barrow blamed the Priests of England for linking themselues in the bed of spirituall loue with the idolatrous Papists and all other wicked of the land at the beginning of Q. Eliz. and continuing in like sinful commixtur vnto this day these Ministers now to saue their credit tel vs an example of Christ presence c. as before is seen Yea the indignity of it stayeth not here for as the Apostle by the Ministery of the gospell prepared the church of Corinth as a pure virgin for her husband Christ so these men pretending to be true Ministers will haue Papists Atheists profane and wicked persons to be Hephzi-bah people in whome God delighteth they will bring this sinfull and adulterous generation even all the vngodly in the land vnto the bed of Christ in his church whether he will or no Which high transgression is the ouerthrow of the mayn ground of the gospell which euer since it began to be sounded in the world hath proclamed a separation of the children of God from the children of Belial as before hath bene proued This being thus obserued how these ministers haue missed at first oâ— the question the further they goe the further they stray and run themselues out of breath in vayn For neyther the examples of Melchisedek Iob Cornelius c. nor their reasons following of 2 other meanes of gathering the church then by the preaching of the Gospel 3 of the preaching of Mr. Wickliff c 4 5 of the course that Q Elizab. took for bringing the Gospell in agayne c. none of these I say will proue eyther that open profane and wicked persons may be receiued and kept in the bozome of the church or that there be not multitudes of open profane and wicked members of the church of England Their present lamentable estate proclaymeth this latter to all men that haue conscience their own writings also heretofore doe strongly confirme it and all the scriptures cry out against the former teach a separation as before in this treatise and in sundry other books is manifested As these ministers have thus passed by the mayn controuersie so haue they in their pretended answers inserted some things corruptly and fraudulently which I will briefly touch First for to bolster out the constreyned profession of faith and ioyning to the church which their people are compelled vnto they plead that Synce Kings became noursing fathers c. to the church their lawes haue been means to bring men to the outward society of the church and the parable proueth that men may be compelled to come Luk. 14 23. This doctrine openeth a dore in the church to all the profane in the world contrary to the scriptures Isa 25.2 35.8 9.2 Chron. 23.19 Reu. 21.27 Leuit. 10.14 Zac. 14.21 2 Cor. 6.14 17. Act. 2.41 19.9 For if a prince may compel some of his subiects to be members of the church he may compel al and if one prince may doe it all may So if there were such an Emperor as Augustus that commanded all the world to be taxed he might
vpon the sands for the profane popish multitude had not receiued the gospel before but as hath been shewed werâ— constreyned by K. Edw. against their wills to hear English Mattins in their churches where they were wont to hear Latiâ— Latin masse and were glad with all their hearts when their old blind devotion did agayn take place and they might suck the blood of such as spake against it So they cannot rightly be sayd to fall from the gospel which they neuer receiued And what secret congregations there were in Q. Maries dayes I know not but if they were so secret as onely they met now and then in priuate and ordinarily went to church openly with Papists they were not a true church of Christ. And that constreyned vnion of Papists and of Protestants at the beginning of Q Eliz reign vnder Archbishops Bishops Priests c. with most of the same mattins even-songs rites ceremonies c. that before had been imposed this order can neuer be warranted by the testament of Christ nor such a commixture proued to be a true church And whereas it is noted for an other vntruth that Mr. Barrow and Greenuâ— should say that in one day by the blast of her Maiesties trompet at the Beginning of her reign all sorts of men were drawne to a profâ—ssion of the gospell without any further means vsed these ministers may be seen to be mere cauillers and bent to depraue For the words euen as themselues haue set them down whereby the reader may espy their falshoode were these where such profane multitudes were all immediately from publicke idolatry at one instant receiued or rather compelled to be members of this church in some parish or other without any due calling to the fayth by the preaching of the Gospell going before or orderly ioyning together in the faith there being no voluntary or particular confession of their own faith c. Now these men to reign an vntruth yea an other vntruth when nonâ— was afore haue among other things changed without any due calling to the faith into without any further meanes vsed and then to conuince this their own fictioÌ„ they tell vs of sundry preachers sent betweeÌ„ Nouember Midsommer that called many But his neyther cleareth them of corrupt dealing nor proueth that the whole realme which at Midsommer was compelled to this church worshâ—p ministery c. was duely called vnto the fayth much lesse that they orderly ioyned together in the same So that the vntruth must rest in their own bosome This being proued say these ministers that there was a true Church in thiâ— land before her Maiesties reign the question must not be whether the meanes she vsed were the right meanes for the first calling and conuerting a people in the faith but wether she took not a lawfull course for the recalling and reuniting of her subiects vnto those true professors whose fellowship they had forsaken Loe how these men run on as if they had proued that whereof we haue yet heard scarce any shew of proof And altering closely the question they say there was a true church in the land whereas they must prouâ— a true church of the land as now it is and long hath been esteemed the Church of England hauing an Archbishop and other officers ouer it which â—re in their Conuocation house the Representative Church of England So it noâ— not being a true church the examples they allege of reformation by the Kings of Iudah fit not their turnes for Iudah was a true church though some corruptions had crept in as will easily doe into the best Abijah the predecessor of Asa mainteyned Gods true religion and worship against idolatrous Israel both by word and sword So Asa found not his kingdome a false church as K. Edw Q Elizab. found England yet vsed he that great care for reformation mentioned 2 Chro. 14. 15. and his son Iehoshaphat after him greater care both to reforme and teach the peoâ—le 2 Chron. 17. Afterwards when abominations had ouerspread the land Hâ—zekiah laboured a godly reformation and opening the dores of the Lords house he brought in the Priests and Leuites not the Chemarins or Baals Priests as the popish clergie which their own notes on Reu. 9.3 acknowledge to be the Locusts of the bottomlesse pit were brought in or rather reteyned still in this church as Mr Fox sheweth Hezekiah sent ouer all the land to conuert the people from idolatry who laughed the messengers to scorne and mocked them howbeit divers submitted themselues and came to Ierusalem and it was God that gaue Iudah a hart to obey the King and rulers according to his word Neyther were any admitted to the Passeouer but such as had voluntarily yeilded repented and eyther sanctified themselues or els being preuented through want of time were healed or clensed of the Lord at the Kings prayer The other disobedient Israelites God punished by the sword and slauery of Asshur because they would not obey the voyce of the Lord their God Finally Iosijah purged the land of idols false worship reduced his people vnto the true seruice of God which they with himselfe had couenanted to walke in These examples we acknowledge al Christian princes should folow hauing equall power with these Kings of Iudah to abolish all idolatry within their dominions yea and to punish obstinate idolaters and not suffer any superstitious worship among their subjects but to procure their conuersion by the word yet not to compell them to be members of the church because they cannot giue them faith and repentance which is the onely dore into Christs kingdome and cannot be opened to any but by God alone Which doctrine and practise these ministers if they would not learne out of holy writ mought haue seen set forth in their own book of Martyrs where when Ethelbert King of Kent was conuerted and Christened and after him innumerable other daylie came and were adioyned to the church yet the King sayth Mr Fox compelled none for he had learned that the faith and seruice of Christ ought to be voluntary and not coacted I acknowledge the Godly and gratious disposition and care of K. Ed. Q Eliz. at the first for restoring of the Gospel to be worthy of purpetuall praise and memory and the error that was in reteyning the popish profane multitudes the Antichristian clergie the Romish worship worship turned into English some few grosse things left out and thâ— other euils yet to be seen in the ecclesiasticall estate these I iudge are rather to be imâ—uted vnto the false clergie men which were trusted too much in thes matters dealt not according to the trust reposed in them but sought to inrich themselves with the spoyles of Bable and of Iericho the Bishopricks benefices and other like Romish reuenues rather theâ— for the build the howse of God vpon the foundations of Sion And
this sin cleaueth fast vnto these priests euen to this day who cannot endure to haue their portion spoken against but thinke all too little that they inioy when as for discharge of their functions in teaching the people the most conscionable among themselues haue complayned to the Parliament that the word of God is negligently fantastically profanely and â—â—thenishly preached and all the land knoweth that many ministers preach not at all Whereas these ministers tel vs of diuers congregations that haue publikly professed their repentance for their former idolatry it is well if so it be God giue them grace to goe forward in wel doing But they tell vs not of any congregation that professeth repentance for their present idolatrie or that renounceth the communion of the other impenitent and profane parishes which they should also doe if they would be the sonns and daughters of the Lord almighty Nay we know that if any among them doe this they ar excommunicated ipso facto out of the church of England by force of their canons anno 160â— Finally whereas these Ministers doubt not to affirme that the whole land in the parliament held in the first year of her Maiesties reigne did enter into a solemn couenant with the Lord for renouncing of Popery and receiuing the Gospel First they set not downe what couenant the Parliament then made nor how they renounced Popery and therefore that is to be iudged of when it shall more particularly be produced Secondly if then the Parliament house so did it is commendable in them but that the whole communialtie of the realm can be sayd to doe it with them I vtterly deny For howsoeuer all subiects are and ought to submit to the good ciuill lawes there enacted and obedience may be inforced by the sword if any man resist yet in cases of conscience euery man must liue by his own faith men must gladly receiue the word out of which all religion must be gathered all Kings and kingdomes submitting vnto the lawes and ordinances in Chrâ—sts Testament if they would haue blessing and saluation by him And as the honourable in the Parliament could not be baptised for the commons so neyther could they repent or couenant with God for them but the people must yeild their own willing consent which they neuer did but were and still are compelled by law and penalty to be of the church and religion established Which how well they haue brooked let the testimonies of the ministers before alleged and the irreligious walking of many thowsands euer since manifest For now our land is a reprouch to the idolatrous Papists for the multitude of Atheists and Machevillians that are therein The second thing which these Ministers say we obiect against the whole body of their assemblies is That they communicate together in a false and idolatrous outward worship of God which is polluted with the writings of men vid. with read stinted prayers homilies Catechismes and such like To which they giue this answer First it is euident by the word that the church hath vsed and might lawfully vse in prayer and Gods worship a stinted and set forme of words And here â—hey allege Num. 6 23.24 Deut 26.3.15 Psal. 22. 92.1 Chro. 16.8.36 Luk. 11.2 Very strange it is that after so much time and consideration men that professe to be ministers of the Gospell should giue such an answer The thing obiected against their worship made of the inuention of the man of sinne was in the first answer to Mr Gifford who shut his eyes and would not see th' abominations of the same shewed in sundry particulars as the Romish fasts feasts and holy dayes Comminations Rogations Purifications c. blasphemous hereticall collects c. which after were more plainely refuted These and the like evils conteyned in their Leitourgie translated out of the Massebook and imposed vpon their parishesr being by Mr Barrow blamed now come these ministers and tel vs of Psalmes that Dauid made of formes of blessing and prayer that God and our Lord Christ prescribeth to his church and these must countenance and bear our all the popish trash that is in their seruice booke But it would farr better haue fitted their estate and worship if they had cited the Popes in sted of the Patriarches Prophets and Apostles who were altogether vnacquainted with this Româ—sh seruice For howsoeuer Dauid made many Psalmes yet not he but Pope Damasus as writers say ordeyned Glory be to the Father c. to be added vnto them and they to be sung by tournes as the church of Engl. yet vseth and Pope Vitalian to make vp the musick brought in the Organs Yea the foresayd Damasus inioyned Hierom to make an order of seruice for churches and appoynt what prayers should be sayd on euery day and how many Psalmes c. which being done the Pope commanded al churches should vse that order and none other And a much like exploit was performed by the Archbishop of Cant. and his brethren in K. Edwards days as Mr Fox reporteth for the seruice now vsed still in Engl. Agayne for the particulars who framed the Anthemes Responds Collects and Kyries that are sayd at mattins neyther Prophet nor Apostle but as some say pope Gregorie I. and Pope Gelasius And the same Pope Gregory put k the Pater noster into the masse and commanded it to be sung and Pope Marâ—us I would haue the Nicene Creed sung after the Gospell Pope Anacletus thought it fit the priest and people should salute one another another in seruice time and therefore appoynted the one to say Tâ—â— Lord hearâ—th 〈◊〉 and the other to answer And with thy spirit Pope 〈◊〉 put iâ— at the Sacrament O lamb of God that takest away the sinns of the wâ—rlâ— hâ—uâ— mercy on vs Pope Symmachusâ—d added the hymme Glory be to Gâ—d on high and the other Popes bâ—ought in their parts and patched together theâ—r Letaniâ— Leitourgie out of which the English seruicebook is taken Likewise for the fasting dayes and holy festiuâ—ties though the Apostles appoynted them not yet the Popes did Telesohorus woulde haue the Lent to be fasted and Pope Calistus the fowr times in the year or Imbring dayes Pope Syluester 1. added the Wednesdayes Frydayeâ— and Saturâ—ayes weekly and Pope Innocenâ— 3. put vnto the former almost all the Apostles eues The Saincts and Angels were also beholding to these Reuerend fathers for hallowing their dayes For generally all the Saincts found such fauour with Pope Boniface that they had not only a catholik holy day giuen them called All-hallomes but a famous Temple in Rome once dedâ—cated to all the Dâ—uils and called Pantheon was turned by this holy Father into the name of Maria rotunda and consecrated to the honoâ—r of the B Virgin‘ and all martyrs Pope Felix 3 mad holy the day
their Lords the Prelates which were the other two â—eads of error excepted against in the forenamed books But in both these they are silent and reason there may be for it for the inferior ministery hangs vpon the superior the hierarchie and now the godly ministers are in a great strayt for eyther they must loose their ministery and then what boots it to plead for the same or els they must though they be loth be buxome and submit to their Fathers the Bishops and when this is done it may be we shall see some such defense of two later as we haue already of the former Mr Bernard himself hath begun fayrly for whereas a while since he was hot against the Bishops he now cannot endure they should be called Antichristian proud prelates or the like and thinks it can neuer be proued that the entrance into the ministery by the Prelates is a false entrance So it is not to be thought but his Ordinary and he will agree wel yenough Wel howsoeuer it be God I doubt not wil turne all things to his own glory and furtherance of his truth yea euen the writings of these aduersaries shal be a meanes to stir men up vnto a consideration of their wayes which God giue them grace for to doe and to turne their feet into the pathes of life and peace that they may finde rest vnto their sowles AN ANSWER TO Mr. Crashawes 4. questions propounded in his sermon preached at the Crosse Febr 14 1607 and printed 1608. Mr. Crashawe preaching vpon Ier. 51 11. We would haue cured Babel but she would not be healed c. took occasion to inueigh against such as haue separated from the Church of Engl. as from Babel in to a couenant and communion as he sayth of their own deuising To conuince this bitter as he calleth it and schismaticall separation he asketh but 4. questions wherevnto if they can giue him satisfaction he promiseth he wil be one of them Now though this promise be not in his own power to performe for it is not in him that willeth nor in him that runneth but in God that sheweth mercy yet shall it not be amysse to labour for his satisfaction herein for who can tel but there may be giuen him an vnderstanding ear and tender hart for to conuert that God may heal him if not that his own writing may be a witnes himselfe is one of those whome we would haue cured in Babel but he would not be healed I will not stand vpon his interpretation of the scripture treated of whether it be the direct and proper meaning of that place but will come vnto the demands by him propounded HIs first question consisting of many branches is summed vp by himselfe in this one Wherein are we deadly and incurably wounded Your demaund being as the particulars shew of the wounds of sin and corruption I answer First we deny not but all your sins are curable as we trust in the mercy of God if you repent of them and beleeu his promises neyther haue we euer thought your wounds in this sense to be deadly or incurable Secondly the sinns that your church lieth in which if they be not repented of and pardoned in the mercy of Christ are deadly and will destroy the sowl for euer haue heretofore by such as would haue cured you been set before your eyes in large and ample treatises shewing these capitall transgressions 1 Your confuse people 2 false worship 3 antichristian hierarchie or church-gouernment 4 and false ministery therefrom deriued that strange it is you should yet ask what deadly wounds you haue and it makes vs fear your state is like his that sleepeth in the midds of the sea in the top of the mast sayth they haue stricken me but I was not sick they haue beaten me but I knew it not You haue also here in this treatise arguments to proue that Christ is not the head Mediator Prophet Priest King of your church which if it be so no Christian can doubt but your wounds in then selues are deadly Though this were yenough for Answer to your question in generall yet because the particulars which you further demaund are stembling blocks vnto the weak I also wil labour to remoue them away Q. What fundamentall wound is in our doctrine A. This among others that you teach and mainteyn both by word and practise that all sorts of people though profane and wicked are to be receiued into and reteyned in the church which is contrary to the foundation of the Gospel layd by God himselfe Gen. 3 15. That such is your doctrine both your sermoris and printed books and the estate of your church since the planting thereof to this time doe confirm Q. What deadly corruption is in our discipline such as eâ—â—s out the hart and life and being of a church A. First they which execute it as the Prelates Commissaries c. are antichristian so iudged proued long since by the reformed churchs by thâ— better son of your own ministers hertofore now liuing by others Seconly in the executioÌ„ of it the good ar consured excommunicated the wicked fauoured and tolerated That the good are censured appeareth by the late Canons of your church for in them it is enacted against such as blame or resist any of your vngodly ceremonies ordinances wil worship c. in your Communion book book of ordering Bishops Priests and Deacons c. that they shall be excommunicated ipso facto and not be restored vntill they repent and publickly reuoke such as you call them their wicked errors That the wicked are fauoured and tolerated though experience may teach euery man yet your own testimonies wil be most pregnant Mr Bradshawe one of your fellow Ministers in his 11. Argument against the ceremonies of your church complayneth that the 〈◊〉 missions of your ceremonies make a minister by your law more subject to depriuatioâ— and suspension then the commission of the sowlest crimes euen drâ—nkeâ—â—â—s blasphemie grosse ignorance and vncleannes Which he proueth by 〈◊〉 such â—iâ—e persons as he sayth that are ministery Some that haue been 〈◊〉 to be carryed home in a wheel barrow Some that comming home drunkeÌ„ from the market town haue been found sleeping under a hedge in their own filth Some that knowing and consenting to their wiues filthines that he might swear he knew no such matter by her since he maried her maried her agayne the morning before he was to answer it vpon his oath Deliuering the sacrament to a filthy woman instead of Take eat sayd Turne thee turne thee c. To another that would take it in her hand he put it in her mouth and sayd Cob Cob or Daw Daw he knowes not whether Dr Henry Parry tels vs of a 〈◊〉 of â—aterpillars the very trash and riff raff of our nation c. that haue like 〈◊〉 of idle
people had in Babylon But that I suppose will not satisfie you but it was you will say by your church and ministerie Therefore I distinguish and consider of conscience in generall and in particular General lie when men so farr as they are taught and see doe walke carefullie this I confesse we had through Gods grace by means of your church this also I acknowledge many among you haue walking conscionably so farr as they see and know The same I am perswaded also of many Papists and other misbeleeuers But as a conscionable Papist or Anabaptist when a further light of the Gospel ariseth vnto him must leaue that church wherein his conscience was so farr informed because it is not the true church of God so must a conscionable Protestant doe with your church when God giueth him to see the false estate wherein you stand although you worke many good effects in a mans hart and conscience Particularly a good conscience is to be considered in this or that particular action as for example in this particular of our separation and so we had not this good conscience from or by your church or ministenistery for you thought to corrupt our consciences and keep vs still in Babylon we had not I say this good conscienâ—e by your meanes vnlesâ—e it be by accident and against your wils and so no thanke vnto you as he that would haue kild his enemie and vnawares cured him of an impostume thus indeed many of vs haue been brought to this good coâ—science of separation For whereas heretofore many of your ministers vnawares haue discouered the vnlawfulnes of the prelacie priesthood leitourgie and other enormities of your church wee haue herevpon thought how it could be the church of Christ which thus lay vnder Antichrist and pressing you with your own doctrines we haue found that you cannot but eyther goe from that whâ—ch before you taught or elâ— yeeld vs our separation which you so earnestly condemn Of which thing there is before spoken in this treatise THe third question is How haue thâ—y sought and sufficiently endeauoured our healing and til they haue done all that possible can be done for our healing how dare they forsake vs I answer we haue sought your healing euen as by your own doctrin the faithfull Iewes sought the cure of Babel and as you selues haue soâ—ght the healing of Râ—me The meanes which the Iewes and your selues haue vsed to cure Babel you shew in your sermon to be three Instruction example prâ—yer By instruction you say laying opâ—n their errors discouering their impieties and lâ—ying before them the excellency of true religion Thus say I haue we done with you witnesse besides our speeches and conferences the many books of this argument which are publised in print 2 By example you say practising their own religion â—uen before their very faces nor fearing their scornes and rebukes c. And to say I haue we practised our religion amongst you and before your faces not fearing your scornes and rebukes And for proof hereof not one man as Daniel in Babel hath been taken in prayer but very many â—f vs haue been apprehended sundry times when we were praying and excercising in the word of God and from our publick meetings haue been caried to your loathsome gaoles and prisons and there deteyned many a day till some were carâ—ed out vpon the Bere vnto their graues some caried to the tree and executed Which to vse your own words had been sufficient to haue driuen you into deeper and better considerations had you not been incurable and it is to be hoped that the sight hereof hath done good on some of you 3. Thirdly they endeauoured you say to heal them by their prayers praying continually and desiring God to heal them Thus also haue we endeauoured to heal you alwayes mentioning you in our prayers that God would vouchsafe yoâ— mercy and this we professe and promise to doe for you still howsoeuer you reward vs for it so long as we liue on earth Thus haue we dealt with you according to all the duties that your selfe haue shewed both from the Iewes practise and from your own For whereas you allege a fourth thing that your selues haue done namely by devising and enacting good and wholsom lawes against their errors superstitions impieties c. seing this cannot be done by subiects or priuate men but onely where a common weal and magistracie is established and so neyther was nor could be done by the Iewes in Babel nor by vs in Engl I suppose you will not impute this as want to Duty vnto vs which if we had attempted to doe mought iustly haue been esteemed rebellion in vs and so our suffrings should haue been as malefactors Whereas then we haue vsed all lawfull meanes to cure you that we could as your selfe haue layd them down before vs I hope you will be satisfyed or if not yet any indifferent reader will thinke you are sufficiently answered THe 4. and last demand is If they Will needs leaue our church whether will they goe To leaue one thing for another no better is seely but for a â—orse â—s folly and madnes c. I answer We haue left Babylon for to come vnto Sion we forsooke your confused assemblies which consist of all sorts of people and an vnlawfull mixture with the profane and wicked that we might haue communion with the people of the Lord that willingly and gladly professe to beleeue the gospel and walke in it Now where you vrge vs to ioyne to some other church in other countries first you passe the bounds of your text from whence you can gathâ—r no such doctrine for the Iewes forsaking Babel ioyned not to any other nation or church then their own Secondly it is also contrary to your own practise who when you first left Poperie in K. Edwards daieâ— and Q. Eliz. ioyned not your selues to any forreyn church but one to another among your selves And where you tel vs of the approbation of other churches and quote their Harmony of Confessions I answer that book was set out long after your separation from Rome and communion among your selues besides also how farr they approue of you is before in this treatise considered of Pag. 10. Thirdly we could not ioyne to any of those forreyn churches becausâ— We vnderstood not their languages nor they ours and therefore vnlesse we would haue builded a new Babel with strange tongues we must ioyne into communion among our selues Thus haue I answered your 4. demaunds and for your further satisfaction if it may be will yet giue you a view of your own dealings with vs and the Babylonians dealing with the Iewes of old as they are collected by your selfe in you sermoon They of Babel obiected as you say that their own religion was general and vniuersall ouer the world and the Iewes but in a corner and agayn they say Look into the
world at this day and see if any nation of all that came from all the â— sonns of Nâ—ah be of your religion all that came of Cham are of ours all that came of Iaphet are of ours and all that came of Sem but onely your selues Your selfe say vnto vs in these like words Look ouer all Christendome and you shall not finde a Church that condemneth ours or any that is not of our religion c. the churches of the Low countries are of oâ—r confession the Ch of France the church of Geneua the church of Scotland the Cantons of Switzerland the stats and Princes of Germany they are all of our confession Whither then will you goe but vnto your corners and conventicles c. The like things are obiected to vs also by other of your ministers as before in this treaâ—ise may be seen pag. 9. The Babylonians are by you feigned to haâ—e sayd vnto Israel Doth not our religion prosper and flourish and is not yours condemned by the consent of all the world Your ministerse say for England against vs God hath witnessed his loue and approbation to our church by many vectories and deliuerances long continuance of the Gospell prayers heard c. And the Churches and godly learned persons that euer heard of your separation did not approue of it See also Mr Bernards book pag. 33. You sayd the babylonians to Israel for holding your religion are iustly ouerthrown and conquâ—red by uâ— ' Mr Penry Barrow and Greenwood say your ministers to vs were hanged Mr Iohnsons and the rest banished by Christian magistrats professing and mainteyning the Gospel of Christ. Alas poor men sayd the Babylonians for one learned Rabbine that your haue haue not we twentie are not the Caldeans the famoust learned men in the world Of vs your ministers say setting aside one or two at most there is neuer a minister amongst thâ—m thâ—t vnderstandeth the summe of religion and grounds of the Catechisme and further they vnderstand not any tongue saue only English wher theÌ„ is their knowledg againe an other vp braydeth vs by the preaching disputing and printing of many excellent works and volumes published of all sorts by the ministers of England which none of vs is any thing haue euer yet atteyned The Babylonians k sayd to Israel During the time that you haue had your Kings and Priests shew one nation by you conuerted or one that came and ioyned with you of all that time Hardly say your ministers to vs can you shew any one person conuerted by your ministery from papistry athisme or other opeÌ„ wickednes as by Gods blessing multitudes haue been by ours Thus we see how you and your ministers imitate Babâ—l as if they had been set to scool by Nebuchadnezar to get the learning and tongue of the Chaldeans wherein how they haue profited let the reader iudge as also whither we may not apply against you your own words that you please your selues in such like carnall arguments and fleshly conceyts aâ— papist in their popery and other pâ—â—fane men in their carnallity did heretofore and doe at this day Of these things as I haue laboured to giue you notice so I desire God to giue you repentance and to heal all your deadly wounds least that come vpon you which is foretold by the Prophet I will render vnto Babel and to all the inhabitants of the Chaldeans all their euill that they haue done in Sion in your sight saith the Lord. My people goe out of the midds of her and deliuer ye every man his sowl from the feirce wrath of the Lord. Ier. 51.45 Goe out of her my people that ye be not partakers in her sinns and that ye receiue not of her plagues Reu. 18.4 FINIS a Kellisons Suruey 2. book 1. chapt· b Mr Giffords dialogue bteweeÌ„ a pap a proâ— f 19. b c Caluiâ—â— opusc Response ad veâ—s quend Mediator d Kâ—llisons Sur. 1 book 2. chap. e See after in this treatise pag. 49 f pag. 13. a pag. 135. b Mr Crashawes ser. pag. 27. c ibid. p. 28 d Caluin Respons ad versiple e Gregory Martin Campion· KellisoÌ„ c f D. Whiâ—g defen of ans to admon in the gen tab S. g Mr Ios. Nichols h plea of the innoceÌ„t pag 33.34 a Ezek. 23.45 b Rev 17 16. See after in this book p 122. anno 1562 e In the 123 pag of his book a Deut 3â— 31 a Sermon on Rom. 12.6 pag 65 66. b Playn deccla of eccles desc pag 72. c Diâ—l of the stryfe of your Church page 99 a 1 admâ—â—o the Par. in the preface b in the sam admonitioÌ„ c 1 admon pag. 16. d ibid. 14. e Mal. 1 8 f Psa 16.4 g Reu 17 â— h verse 4. i 2 Cor. 3.17 k 1. admon page 15. l Demonst. in the pref m Tâ—ble of Artic by diuin Reader in Cam. n ibedem o 1. admon page 2. Exo. 14.5.9 a Gen 1 2 b Reu 17. â— c one thâ— same word is by figure of speech 〈◊〉 for hearing râ—porting Rom 10. a 2 admon to the Parl f. 16. a Psa. 20.7 b Bellarmin de notu eccl Psa. 62.9 a 1 Admon â—o the Parl. a DeccoÌ„s by interprâ—tation ar ministers 1 〈◊〉 3.5 b DefeÌ„nc of eclesiastical disci p. 102. c 1 admo to the Parlia d defence of godly minis against bridges p. 12 3. e Sermon on Rom. 12 p 34. a Leu. 19 17. a 1 admo 2.3.4 a form manner of consecrating Bishops priests and Deacons b ibidem a 2 Kin. 1â— 33.41 b ver 34. c Gal. 5 19 20. d Num 16.7 a Ioh. 3.8 Reu. 7.1 b Ifâ—· 60 2â— a Epistle before the De monst b Psa. 19.12 a Symmaâ—â—â— in Epist. prâ— sacr patruÌ„ b Caeciliu Arâ—eb lib 8 c Gen 6. 1 Pe 3.19.20 2 Pet 2.5 a Psal. 73.7 b Iob 21.16 c Cyril coÌ„tra Iul. lib. 7 s. d Fast 5 aepe IoueÌ„ vids quum iam sua mittere vellet fulins 〈…〉 sustiâ—â—isse 〈…〉 e Psa 66.18 19 116.1 2.1 Iob 5 1â— a Pro 25 14 b 1 admon to Parl pag 33 c ibid. p 4. d Supplication to the Parl. p 67. e Luk 12.51 52 Mat. 12.6 Ren 11.19 * Psa 18.14 †Gen 4.16 6.2 †Gen 9.25 26. cha 11. * Gen 19 ‡ Gen. 12. †Ex 4 c †Isa 48.20 †Hos. â— 15 * Act 2 40 41. 2 Cor 6 14.17 †Reu. 18 4 * Num 11.1 ‡ Num. 16 32 33. †Num 21.6 †NuÌ„ 25.9 * Num. 14.45 ‡ Ex 32 27 †NuÌ„ 20.12 †Ex 12 37 * Num. 26 64 65 ‡ 2 Tim. 4 10. †Mat. 27.24 * Reu. 1.9 ‡ Mar 3 17 †Act 4.11 †Luk â—3 33 * Gen. 37. ‡ 1 Kin. 11 30.31 37.40 †2 Chro. 14 23 c. †2 Chro 16 7.10 * Ioh. 6.66.67 (a) Gen. 4. b Gen.
pag. 10 27 c 〈◊〉 7 51. c Apol part 6 â— 18. 〈◊〉 1. â— Likâ—lyhood d 〈◊〉 1. Likelieâ—ood pag. 34. Act. 1.17 â— â— â—ikelieâ—â—â—d a Luk 17.26 b Psa 105 12.13 c Geâ— 15. d Deut 10.22 e Gen 17.20 f Gen 36 15. c. g ver 3 c 1 h pag. 44. 1. The evil of the entrance i pag 44 Answer l Psa. 10 7â— a pag 46. Answer b Zeph. 3.7 c Deut 32 5 Reu 2.14 15. f ver 20. c. g Eze 23 â— Chro. 11.15 Reu 17 1 18 2 2 The persons greeuously sinning c. 1 Syn. 2. Syn. 3. Syn. Answer a Kellison Suruâ—y 1 book 4 chap b Iam 5 20 c pag 263. d pag 52 Answer a Mic. 3.6 b Rev. 9. c Mat 7 16 d Ioh 10 10 e Isa. 60.1 2.3 Reu. 21 24 f Isa 50 11 g pag. 56. Answer h Psa 112.2 i vers 10 * â—sal 37. The 4 syn ‡ pag. 90. The 5. syn The 6 syn †It would be knowne what Mr Bâ—rn counted caled them in his book that of late he wrote against them * â—ag 78 c. 1. Error Answer ‡ Discouery Resut of Giff. ConfessioÌ„ Apology Answer to Mr. Iacob c. †Eph. 2 12 †〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Arist 3. Polit c. 1. * Câ—lo 2.5 ‡ Act 2 4◠†Supplic to the king anno 1604. Reason of râ—ligion 6. 2. Error Answer * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ier. 4.23 Gen 1.2.3 Error Answer ‡ pag. 81 4 Error 〈…〉 * Reu 18 ofteÌ„ in that book 5 Error Answer ‡ 1 Cor 1.2 Rom. 1 7. Eph 1.1 †Mat. 20.16 22 14. 6 Error Answe †pag. 78. * 1 Cor 8 6. 12.5 ‡ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Pet 5 4 Reu 1.13 2.1 * 1 Tim 4 14 ‡ Tit. 1.5 2 Co 12 28. Act 14 23. †1 Tim 5 17 †Heb 13 17 1 Pet. 5.5 * Rom 12 6 7· ‡ 1 Cor. 14 34. 〈◊〉 31 24 * Art 34. ‡ Luk 17.3 †Mat. 18.15.16.17 †1 Cors. 4 12 13. * Treatise of Popes pard part 2. c 3 ‡ 1 Cor. 7.23 Gal 5.1 †1 Cor. 12 28. †Apolog of the church of Engl. 1. part c 2 divis 7. * Suruey of the new relig 1 book 3 chap. ‡ See moÌ„ng other the Discouery of the false church pag 165. forward Apology against the Oxford DD. pag. 60 c. a Necess of reâ—orm pag 28. 7 Error Answer b Confess 〈◊〉 3â— c Rom 15 1 Phil 3 15 16. Eph 4 2 3 d Heb 10 25 e Isa. 5 20 23 f Exo. 2â— 2 g Leu 4 27 28. c ver 2â— 23 c i verse 3. k uerse 13. c. a vers 28. b vers 24 c ve 3 14 d Iudg 19 e Iudg. 20.13 c. f Iosh. 22.18.20 g Prou. 21.27 8 Error Answer h 1 Kin. 12 28. a pag. 74. b pag. 111. c pag 116. d pag 113. e Plea of the innâ—â—eÌ„t p. 218. c. A sayer profâ—ssion a pag. â—20 b pag. 121. c Plea of the innoceÌ„t pag 246· a pag. 99 b Ps. 4.4 9 Error Answer a pag. 141. b pag. 131 c pag. 142. a pag 121. b pag 139.140 c pag 141 d pag 54. c. Maâ— 28.19 b 1 Pâ—t â— 1 Act. â—0 28 c 2 Cor 6 4 c. d 1 Cor 1.2 e â— Cor. 12 f pag. 144. g pag. 145. h In his chalenge p 85. i detestion c. p. 100. a Dialogue between a Papist a protestaÌ„t in the Epistle dedicatory 10 Error Answer Aswner Answer Answer Answer Answer Answer Answ. Answ. Answ. Answ. Answ. a Qu 19. ca. 1. Decimaâ— a populo a Act 19.15 b Acts and MonumeÌ„ts WiliaÌ„ Thor in his testament Answ. c Act 17.23 d 1 Cor 10 20. e Reu 9 20 16 14. and 18.2 f Deut. 12.2.3 g Gen 21 33 h Gen 12 7 8. 13 4 c i Iude vers 14.15 1 Reason Answ. a See before p. 37.42.43 b See before p. 2.107 c CouÌ„try divinity in thâ— Episâ— de dic d Ios Nich. Plea of the innocent p. 236. e Luk. 11.47.48 f Mat. 23 3â— a Pag 13 102 103. b Isa. 49 4. c Mat. 23.37 d Rom 10.31 e CouÌ„try diuinity fol. 48. e admire f pag. 116. 2. Reason a Tit. 1 16· b Act monu edi 5. pag 11â—7 1190 c ibidem pa 1184. d pag 1185 CouÌ„try diuinity fol. 2â— f Serm. on Rom. 12. p. 65.66 a See before p. 56. b Hos. 9.8 c Answer to the admon pag. 111. c Defense of the answer to the adm pag. 621. e Seruice aâ— burîall a Dialog betweeÌ„ a Pap a protes fol 38. b pag. 167. c Eph 1 1. d Ano 1562 art 19. e Art 17· f pag 168 3. Reason Answer a pag. 174. b 1 Cor. 3.11 c vers 6.7 d Mat 16.16 e 1 Ioh 4.2 f Mark 16 16. g Col. 2.6.7 a pag 74. c. b Ioh. 3 36 Mat 7.21 23 Rom. 2 6.8 c pag. 174. d pag 74. c. e In the Creed f Art 19 anno 1562 g CouÌ„try diuinity fol. 19. a Art 19. anno 1562 b ibid art 17 c Book of coÌ„mon prayer d Art 35. anno 1562 e Consti canoÌ„s 1603 f Art 36 ano 1562 g CanoÌ„s anno 1603. their practise according h Country Devinity fol. 73 i Preface to Mr D. Fenners CouÌ„terpoys a pag 169. b pag. 173. c Discouer Pag. 156. 2 Tim 3 16 Prov. 30.5 Psal. 19.8 12.6 Psa. 119 entyre Eph 2 20. d Pag. 174 a ibidâ—m b pag 173 c Psal. 119 152. d Answe to Artic 5 e Mat. 22.40 f Mat 5.12 Ioh 3.36 Rom. 1.5 b Ioh 13.14 Mat 28.20 Gal 3.10 d Heb 2.2.3 3.7.8 10.26 c. 12 25. Psaâ— 9.12 f Ian. 3.2 g Rom 6.23 1. Ioh 2.4.6 3.6.8.9 â— pag. 171 h See coÌ„fer in th' Fleet with Mr. Hutch and D'Andrews 4 Reason a In the answer to Mr Raynolds preface b pag. 92. c pag. 8. d pag. 18â— e pag. 191. f Refut of Giff pag 1. g Luk 16 6 Refut pag 1 a Dis p 8. b pag. 182.183 Ioh 20.19 Dis. p. 10. 2 Cor 11.24 a Iâ—a 62 4. b pag. 185. c Luk. 2.1 a Ma 28 18 b vers 17.21.22 23. c Gal 6 12 d Gal 2 14 e Ma 11 12 f pag. 185. g Iohn Bale Cent. 1. scri Brit fol. 35 h Chr. Ranulph Ciâ—â—er i pag 186. Rom 1. 1 Cor 1 c. k Reu 17 l pag 120. a Act. and monuÌ„ edit 5 p. 1180. b ibid. pag. 1181. ibidem pag 1186. ibidem pag 1189. f pag 186 M Dering 23 Lectur on Epistle to the Hebrewes pag 186.187 a pag. 187. b pag. 182. pag. 188. a 2 Cro 14.8 9.10 c. b 2 Chr. 13 2.3 c 2 Chr. 30 6. d vers 10 e vers 11. e vers 11. f vers 12. g vers 18 19.20 h 2 Kin. 18 10.11.12 2 Chr. 34. i vers 30.31.32 Fides suadeÌ„da est non imperanda Bern. in Cantic k vers 30.31.32 l Mar 1.15 16.15 â—6 Act 2.37.38 8.36.377 Act 11.18 Eâ—h 2.8 m Act and monum edi 5 pag. 105. a As appeareth by D Downams Serm. on 1. Tim. 3.1 2 pag. 80.81.86.87 b 2 Admon fol. 43. c pag. 190 d 2 Cor 6 1â— 18. e Rom. 13 f Hab. 2.4 g Act 2.4 h Psal. 2. a Keâ— Sur 8 book in the preface 2 Obiâ—â—tioâ— Answer Reply b Refut p. 8. c Refut pag 29. c. Discouer p. 62. c. c Platima â— vitis pootie Damasus 1 f d Blat Vtalimus 1. i e Guil Durammus f Act. and monuÌ„ edi 5 pag 1184. g Guil Durandus Ifidorus h Ioan. Laziasdus i Platiua de vit Marcus 1 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 d Plaâ—ina Telâ—sphorus Celistus 1. e Bergomen sis f Lyb 3 decretal Grego g Volator Platina Bonif. 4. i Fasci tem h Lib Con k Pap suppl anno 1604 ReasoÌ„ of religion 13. l Leu 18 2 3 c a Deut 12 30 31 b vers 32 c ReuelatioÌ„ 11 8 d Deu 5 8 9 32 33 6 14 15 25 7 25 26 12 2 3.30 c Isa 1.12.13 29 13.14 Ier 1 16. Reu. 17.2 18.3 11 12 20 a pag. 196. b pag. 71 c pag 142. a pag 26. c. b RoÌ„ 9.16 1 Questions Answer c 1 Iohn 5 16. d RoÌ„ 6 23. e Refut of Gifford Discovery Apolog. c f Prou. 22 34 33. a supra pag. 74. c. b Ioh. 8 24 Act 4.12 c CanoÌ„s ano 1603 Can 4 6 7.8 c. d In his pre befor Vrsinus Catechisme a ibidem b Remoual of imput layd on the ministers of Deuo. and Corn. p. 27 c pag 169 d pag 169 e pag 172· a 〈…〉 2 pag. 325. b 9 Argum against the ceremonies a Pro 15 4 b Rev 22.2 c Canons 1603. 2 Question Answer c Iob. 3.8 a 〈◊〉 5â— 16 b 〈◊〉 11 5 c Ier 3 14 d Act. 17.22.33.34 e Gal. 4 26 f Num 23 5 26. c. a T it 1 15 b Psal. 19. a pag. 2.3 c. 3 Qâ—estion Answer b pag. 12 42. a pag. 44. 4. Questions Answer b pag. 3â— a in you sermon p. 17. b pag. 18. c pag 32 d Sermon p 17. d supra p. 19. Consider 7. e supra pag 19. Consid. 6. f. Your Ser. pag. 17 g Supra p. 23 Consid. 2. h Yovr ser. p. 18. i Mr Sions sermon on Psa. 120. Supra pag. 19. Consid. 7. n Dan. 1.4 l Your ser. pag. 19. Supra pag. 30. Consid. 8. o pag. 20. a Ier 51 2â—
beleeue to be saued by him alone and by this colour men continue in transgression and idolatrie stil. which is as if a theef dronkard whormaister blasphemer or other vicious liuer being blamed by the lawes of God which condemne these sinnes should say These are petty faults I confesse but they are not fundamental for the onely fundamentall truth and ground of all Gods law is Loue and that is the fulfilling of the law Rom. 13.8 9.10 Gal. 5.14 1 Tim. 1.5 Now this foundatioâ— I hold for I professe to loue God aboue al and my neighbour as my sâ—lfe on which ground as Christ sayth the law and prophets doe depend and this I doe howsoeuer I cannot keep my tongue from swearing lying and â—iâ—auldrie nor my hands from picking and stealing nor my body chast c. yet my hart is good I loue God and my neighbour and hope to he saued as well as the precisâ—st puritan of them all And now what will these ministers say to theâ—r profane parishioners if thus they pleaded for doe not themselues thus plead for the transâ—reossins of the first table and violating of the testament of Christ in their own false ministery idolatrous rites ceremonies and forged worship But as euery true Christian hart knoweth that such profane ruffians howsoeuer they say they loue god yet in deed they hate him and howsoeuer the sâ—mme and end of all the Law is Loue onely yet that loue implyeth obedience to every particular precept and he which breaketh the least commandement and teacheth men so shal be called the least in the kingdome of heauen as Christ sayth so know they likeweise or should know that such superstitious idolaters false and Antichristian Prelates and priests howsoeuer they boast of true fayth yet by theyr works they deney it and although Fayth in Christ be the foundation of Christian religion yet in imâ—lieth necessarily obedience vnto the ordinances of his Testament euen whatsoeuer is commanded them therein and as the curse is denounced against all the transgressors of Moses law in any part thereof so they shall not escape vengeance that wilfully despise the law of Christ or any part of his testament confirmed with his precious blood And if thus we vnderstand not and interpret those scriptures which sum vp al christianity in Christ we must needs confesse that many false churches euen Rome it selfe is a true church seeing they doe professe such generall grounds of Christ as by playn evidence of scripture seem sufficient vnto saluation as appeareth by Council Trident. Seâ—s 3. compared with Rom. 10.9 Act. 8.37 38. 1 Ioh. 4.2 Mark 16.16 also Rhemes testam annot on 1 Tim. 2.5 wher they professe Christ by nature to be truely both God and man to be that on eternall priest and redeemer which by his sacrifice and death vpon the crosse hath reconciled us to God and payed his blood as a full and sufficient ransome for all our sinns c. How beit that these ministers stumble no more at that we professe let them know we hold euery generall head and ground of doctrine more necessary to be known then ech particular branch of the same an error ouerthrowing a whole ground of religion to be much more wicked then that which ouerturneth but a part thereof Also that many of Gods church are ignorant of sundry particular doctrines of the Gospell yea all of vs in some for none is perfect yet that in some generall grounds ignorance is damnable and further that the wilfull and obstinate refusall or contempt of the least evident truth of the Gospel is deadly and damnable of it own nature Neyther see we how we should beleeue otherweise vnlesse with the Papists we think some sinns veniall some mortall As for Mr Barrowes words from Ioh. 16.13 which also these ministers mistaking doe mislike it is evident by his own writings to the contrary otherwhere that he meant not so erroniously as they collect But that promise made to the Apostles he applieth vnto all the members of Christ by proportion though not in like measure Which that it may be done we learne of the Apostles themselues in other like cases 2 Cor. 4.13 from Psalm 116. Heb. 13.5.6 from Ios. 1 Psal. 118. c. Their last reason is from the approbation of all the known churches in the world which acknowledge this church of Engl. for their sister and give vnto them the right hand of fellowship This poynt is handled before in this treatise pag. 9. c. 48 51. c. vnto which places I refer the reader Many scriptures and reasons these ministers allege from the primitiue churches examples that reioyced for and saluted one another of and of the comfort that a church may haue in the communion and approbation of other churches All which we grant and dâ—e obserue how fast â—hey can cite scriptures for things that we deny not But they say nothing for the controuersie between them and vs. which consisteth of these 3. poynts 1 whither a people may not separate from euill and professe and walke in the truth vnlesse or vntill other churches allow them 2. whether it be a necessary and vndenyable argument that whomsoeuer other churches approue they are true churches and so must be esteemed of all men 3 and whither the reformed churches at this day doe approue of the church of England in all or any of the differences for which we sâ—parate from them The first of these is proved by all Gods commandements which require euery man particularly to refrayn all evill and doe that which is good Exod. 20. The second is disproued by themselues in their writings against the Papists who pressed them with such reasons Let councels sayth Mr Whitaker be esteemed as they deserue let their decrees be examined by Gods word and if they agree let them be receiued for that agreement if not let them be reiected for the contrary To this agreeth their own Bishops Articles ano 1562. Art 21. and also their Apoligie before alleged in this treaâ—ise and finally Mr Bernards own counsel though perhaps he knew no more then Caiaphas what he sayd saying See into the glasse of the word by thine own sight without other mens spectacles c. For the latter poynt we know the reformed churches as their constitution and writings shew are for vs and against them of which see before pag 10 c. and it shall hereafter be further confirmed if these ministers will deny it Hitherto of the reasons alleged by the godly ministers wherein how they haue proued and setled their first position let the godly wise judge Next follow their answers to the obiections made by vs. And these they make two First that their church of Engl. was not gathered by such meanes as God in his word hath ordeyned and sanctified for the gathering of his Church Secondly that they communicate together in a false