it is all one now to say the Catholike and to say the Roman Church The Church of Rome as the most famous and chiefe Church was most fit to bee named in this case but otherwise it may euen as well be said They were Catholike Bishops that coÌ„municated with the Church of Millan where Ambrose was Bishop therefore to say the Church of Millan is all one as to say the Catholike Church As little discretion is there in his next allegation out of Hierome who mentioning the words of Ruffinus concerning some workes of Origen by him translated The Latin Reader shall finde nothing in them different from our faith demandeth thus a Hieron Apolog aduers Ruffin lib. 1. Fide suam quam vocat Eamnè qua Romana pollet Ecclesia an illam quâ— Origenis voluminibus continâ—tur si Romanam respondeâ—it ergo Catholâ—ci sumus qui nihil de Origenis errore transtulimus c. Which calleth hee his faith that which the Church of Rome professeth or that which is contained in the bookes of Origen If he answere the Roman faith then are we Catholikes who haue translated nothing of the errour of Origen For what is there here said of the Roman Church but what might likewise bee saâ—d of any other Church professing the true faith The argument followeth because the Roman Church did then maintayne the true Catholike faith so should it follow of the rest If he professe the faith of the Church of Constantinople of Antioch of Alexandria yea of the poore Church of Eugubium then is he a Catholike because al these did then professe the Catholike faith But what is this to M. Bishops purpose to proue in the Church of Rome a priuiledge of continuance and stability in the same true Catholike faith to proue that the Roman faith should bee alwaies the certayne and vndoubted patterne of the true Catholike faith In which conclusion his other Authours also doe all faile him who though it be graunted him that they did as he saith proue themselues then to be Catholikes and their Churches Catholike by declaring themselues to communicate with the Church of Rome and their aduersaries to bee Heretikes because they did not so for that the Church of Rome was then famously knowen to haue continued the same from the beginning in the points of faith then impugned by the Heretikes yet very idlely and childishly are they alleaged to proue that which M. Bishop intendeth that it should alwayes thenceforth continue so But indeede hee racketh his Authours and wrongeth them neither doe they say that which hee would haue them taken to say Tertullian appealeth to other Churches as well as to the Church of Rome and referreth his Reader to the most famous of them accordingly as they are nearest at hand b Tertul. de praescript Percurre Ecclesiaâ— Apostolicas apud quas ipse adhuc Cathedrae Apostolorum suis locis praesidentur c. Proxima est tibi Achaiai habes Corinthum Si non longè es a Macedonia habes Philippos habes Thessalonicenses Si potes in Asiam tenderâ— habes Ephesum Si autem Italâ—ae adiaces habes Romanam Runne through the Apostolike Churches in which there are Bishops still sitting in the seates of the Apostles in their places Is Achaia next vnto thee thou hast Corinthus If thou be not farre from Macedonia thou hast Philippos and the Thessalonians If thou canst goe into Asia thou hast Ephesus If thou border vpon Italie thou hast the Church of Rome What is there here for M. Bishops turne c Epiph. haeres 27. Epiphanius setteth downe a Catalogue of the Bishops of Rome but saith not a word to that effect as M. Bishop citeth him Optatus approueth his part to be Catholike not simply by communicating with the Church of Rome but for that togâ—ther with the Church of Rome d Optat. lib. 2. Siâ—icius hodie noster est socius cum quo nobis totus orbis coÌ„mercio formatarum in vna communionis societate concordant they communicated with thâ—â—hurch of the whole world Yea in the same booke hee attributeth as much in this behalfe to the seuen Churches of Asia as to the Church of Rome therby as strongly reproueth the Donatists e Ibid. Cum quibus Ecclesijs nullum communionis probamini habere consâ—rtiâ— c. Extra septem Ecclesias quicquid soris est alienum est You are proued to haue no fellowship of coÌ„munion with the seuen Churches Whatsoeuer is without the seuen Churches is stranger to the Church Austin setteth downe the succession of the Bishops of Rome and vpbraideth the Donatists that f Aug. Epist 165. In hoc ordine successionis nullus Donatista Episcopiâ— inuenitur no Donatist was found amongst them but as well doth he obiect to them that whereas g Ibid. Quile gunt in codicibus sanctis Ecclesias quibus Apostoli scripseruÌ„t nullum in eis habeÌ„t Episcopum Quid autem peruersius insaniê° quà m lectoribê° easdem Epistolas legentibus dicere pax tecum ab earum EcclesiaruÌ„ pace separare quibus ipsa Epistolae scriplae suÌ„t they read the Epistles of the Apostles they diuided themselues from the peace and fellowship of those Churches to which the Apostles wrote the same Epistles So then in all these Authors which he alleageth he doth but meerely abuse his reader which is the cause why he thus set downe their names without their wordes for that he presumed that only alleaging their names men would imagine that vndoubtedly they said somewhat for him whereas if he had set downe their wordes euery man might see that they said nothing Yea but it is greatly to be noted saith M. Bishop that there is no generall Councell of sound authority wherein the Christian truth hath beene expounded and determined but is confirmed by the Bishop of Rome Well and it is as greatly to be noted that the sentence of no Bishop of Rome was anciently holden sufficient for the deciding of a question of faith except the same were confirmed by a generall Councell Therefore doth Leo Bishop of Rome mention h Leo epist 61. Apostolicae sedis Epistola vniuersali sancta Synodi assensâ— firmata Et Epist 70. Scripta mea adiecta vniuersalis Synodi coÌ„firmatione c. his Epistle against the heresie of Eutyches confirmed by the vniuersall assent of the sacred Synode and his writings hauing the confirmation of the generall Councell added thereto And what his authority was in the Councell it may be conceiued by that he wrote to the Councell of Ephesus i Idem Epist 14. Misi qui vice mea sancto conueÌ„tui vestrae fraternitatis intersint communi vobiscum sententia qua Domino sint placitura constituant I haue sent my deputies to be present with you in your assembly and by sentence in common to decree those things which may be pleasing to the Lord where wee see that he challengeth no more but a voice in common with the
appertayneth be not according to the letter and in common speech called by that name Let him then vnderstand proportionably that the truth of the name of Catholikes belongeth not to the Romish faction who challenge to themselues as the Iewes did to haue gotten by succession the possession of the name and will be commonly so called but it belongeth to vs who though we vse not the word being growen to ill meaning by their abuse yet do maintayne one and the same truth with them who first were called by that name In a word as there is a double sense in the one so is there also in the other and I doe not so hoppe from one sense to another in the one but that I shew a iust â—orrespondence betwixt them both W. BISHOP §. 3. BVt and it please you the Protestants haue the kernell of the name Catholike and we but the shell Why doe they then so bitterly inueigh against it why are they not more willing to extoll and magnifie that renowmed title being of such ancient Nobility Twenty pound to a peny that what face soeuer he set on it yet in his heart he meruailously feareth the contrary himselfe If that faith and religion only be Catholike and Vniuersall as he acknowledgeth that hath euer beene and is also spread ouer all the world and shall continue to the worlds end then surely their religion cannot be Catholike euen by the vniforme confession of themselues who generally acknowledge that for nine hundred yeares togither the Papacy did so domineer all the world ouer that not a man of their religion was to be found in any corner of the world that durst peepe out his head to contradict it Could there be any Church of theirs then when there was not one Pastor and flocke of their religion though neuer so small in any one Countrey And euen now when their Gospell is at the hottest hath it spread it selfe all the world ouer is it receiued in Italie Spaine Greece Afrike or Asia or carried into the Indians nothing lesse They cannot then call themselues Catholikes after the sincere and ancient acceptation of that name which is as himselfe hath often repeated out of S. Augustine Quia communicant Ecclesiae to to or be diffusae Because they communicate in fellowship of faith with the Church spread ouer all the world They must therefore notwithstanding M. Abbots vaine bragges be content with the shell and leaue the kernell to vs who doe embrace the same faith that is dilated all Countries ouer yea they must be contented to walke in the foote-steps of their fore-fathers the Donatists euen according to M. Abbots explication and flie from the vniuersality of faith and communion of the Church spread all the world ouer vnto the perfection of their doctrine which is neuerthelesse more absurd and further from the true signification of the word Catholike then the Donatists shift was of fulnesse of Sacraments and obseruation of all Gods Commandements as hath beene already declared But let vs heare how clearely and substantially he will at length proue their Church to be Catholike R. ABBOT IT pleaseth vs very well M. Bishop that we haue the kernell of the name of Catholikes and in the meane time because your importunity so requireth we are content to leaue the shell to you The kernell serueth vs to feede vpon and it is very tastfull to vs but you haue berayed the shell and therefore we haue no care to meddle with it Our inueighing against it is no otherwise but in respect of your abuse let it be restored to his true vse and we shall be ready to extoll it and where it is so we doe so As for your wager M. Bishop of twenty pound to a peny you haue lost it and you know that you haue lost it because you see that I haue set no other face vpon the matter then by sufficient proofs I haue made good But here he taketh in hand to bereaue vs of the kernell because our faith and religion was neuer Catholike that is was neuer spred ouer the whole world Whereas I on the other side doe tell him that it is only our religion which appeareth to haue beene absolutely spred ouer all the word and none but ours For our religion is no more nor other then is contained in the Gospels and Epistles of the Apostles and because we know that the religion there set downe was spred ouer all the world therefore we cannot doubt but that our religion is that that was spred ouer all the world and though Apostasie hath ouershadowed it yet hath euer since continued in the world As for that which he alleageth to the contrary it is no vniforme confession of ours but a deformed lye of his owne We doe not acknowledge that for nine hundred yeares togither there was not a man of our religion to be found in the world The Papacy indeede did mightily domineer accordingly as it was foretold but yet it could neuer so preuaile to the extirpation of our religion but that euen in the middest of the Papacy it hath continued still yea thousands and hundred thousands as by their owne stories appeareth haue beene murthered and slaine for the profession thereof Yea in the very religion of Popery our religion hath continued for what is Popery but a doctrine compounded of our religion and their owne deuice Our religion hath serued them for a foundation whereupon to build not only their wood and hay and stubble but also the wild-fire and poison of their idolatries and damnable heresies which without the pretence and colour of our religion Christian eares would haue detested and abhorred but therefore dreaded them not because they saw them cloaked with shew of still retaining that which we professe They durst not deny those Canonicall bookes of the old and new Testament which our religion receiueth but to serue their turne they added other bookes not inspired of God to be notwithstanding of like authority with those They acknowledged the Lords praier the articles of the Creede the ten Commandements which we receiue as principles of our religion but they frustrated them by a superstitious custome brought in of reciting them like a charme in an vnknowen tongue They haue neuer denyed the two Sacraments which we teach which were fast rooted in Christian profession but they haue added to them other fiue and made them vp seuen They vsed no other substantiall forme of Baptisme then we doe only they prophaned it with sundry polluted and corrupt ceremonies of humane deuice In their Masse and Sacrament of the Altar the ground of all is that that we doe according to the institution of Christ and example of the primitiue Church They bring bread and wine to the Lords table they sanctifie or consecrate the same with the words of Christ when and where they list they administer the same to the people and all this they take vpon them to doe in remembrance of the Passion Death and
of that that we say that the best worke of the righteous man is stained with sinne you conclude Therefore as good to leaue all vndone as to doe any therefore all men are bound vnder paine of damnation neuer to doe any good deede I doe but only name those worthy disputes of yours referring the Reader to their proper places to see further the absurd inconsequence and vanity of them I might goe along your questions of that part and put you in minde of a great number of such illations but I will content my selfe to name an argument or two in the last only To proue the worshipping of Images e Of Images sect 16. you alleage out of the Psalme Cast downe your selues before his foote-stoole and conclude that much more Images may be worshipped Againe to proue that the Arke was worshipped you tell vs First none but the high Priest might come into the place where it was and it was carried before the campe with great solemnity when they were to fight against the Philistines they had great confidence in the presence of the Arke the Bethshamites were slaine for looking into it Oza was smitten of God for touching it You propound first that by these things it is euident that the Arke was worshipped and when you haue set them downe as it were to make your selfe ridiculous you demand Doth not all this conuince in what reuerence the Arke was had Anone f Sect. 17. after for confirmation of the same point that Images are holy and to be reuerenced you alleage that the place where Moses stood was holy ground that daies were called holy and worshipfull that the Priests Vestiments were holy from which wee wonder how you should dreame to deriue that conclusion which you intend Some man will haply excuse the matter that being towards the end of your booke you had spent your wits and knew not well what you said which we would easily admit but that we see that hauing refreshed your wits againe your arguments in this booke are found to be of the same stampe I require example out of the old Testament for the worshipping of Images and you answere that g Chap. 4. §. 3. the hauing of them in the Tabernacle and the Temple where it was neuer thought lawfull to set vp the Image of a man but only the Cheâ—ubins to vs vnknowen what they were and the pictures of Lyons and Buls and Palme trees and Flowers for garnishing the house and the sentence of the Psalmist Adore yee his foote-stoole and many such places and resemblances doe very strongly argue that Images are to be worshipped To proue the profession of Monkery amongst the Iewes you tell vs out of Iosephus of the Essees that were amongst them who with the Pharisees and Sadducees as I haue shewed were no other but Iewish Heretikes For example of Pilgrimages to Relikes and dead mens bones you answer vs that all the males amongst the Iewes were bound by the law to goe thrise in the yeare to the Temple of God at Ierusalem To make good that you may lawfully pray to haue your sinnes forgiuen by the bloud of Thomas Becket and by the same bloud to be brought to heauen you alleage that in the Psalme it is said h Ibid. §. 5. Lord remember Dauid and all his trouble To shew that St. Paul speaketh of the Masse you tell vs hereafter that i 1. Tim. 2. 1. he desireth that obsecrations prayers postulations thanks-giuings be made for all men What M. Bishop doe your iudicious Catholikes of whom you speake tell you that they like well of these proofes of yours And may not we then thinke that both you and they haue drunke of a spiced or rather an inchanted cup that will take such wilfull and affected Sophistications to be very vrgent and forcible reasons Surely M. Bishop with as much wit as you haue told vs here that some Catholikes like better of your booke then they doe of mine I might also tell you that many Protestants hauing seene these your collections and our solutions doe pitty your Catholikes that suffer themselues to be gulled and deluded with such reasonlesse reasons as before I affirmed them to be Yea so reasonlesse are they that when we haue shewed by answere how little reason there is in them we neuer doubt to commit them to the sight of all men And whereas you aske who are more circumspect then we are to keepe our followers from the reading of your bookes I aske of you what cause you your selfe haue to complaine in that behalfe Surely your bookes haue beene very openly and commonly sold and whereas you say that we imprison any that will helpe to print them you see your owne bookes printed for you and free for all men to buy that are desirous of them How many other of your books are there in the same sort common to the view of all men and by vs made common our care only being not to suffer poison to goe freely abroad without a preseruatiue therfore hauing ioyned answer to them we leaue euery one that list to reade at his liberty to iudge of both It would goe amisse with you M. Bishop if our books had that free passage amongst you that yours haue amongst vs. Your Kingdome would soone goe downe euen in Italie and Spaine if your men had liberty to reade our answeres togither with your books The last part of this passage concerneth his deliuery of a speech vttered by his Maiesty at the conference at Hampton Court That no Church ought further to separate it selfe from the Church of Rome in doctrine and ceremonie then shee hath departed from her selfe when shee was in her flourishing and best estate and from Christ her Lord and head In the rehearsall whereof I note him that subtilly he left out the last wordes And from Christ her Lord and head He telleth me that I shew no cause why I doe so and that indeede none can be shewed because they are needlesse wordes and comprehended in the former But we suppose that he needeth more vnderstanding that conceiueth those wordes to be needlesse which are no otherwise comprehended in the former then as the former are expounded by them For although in right meaning it be true which he saith that if the Church of Rome be not departed from her selfe when shee was in her flourishing and best estate shee cannot bee departed from Christ her Lord and head yet such a meaning he may make of her flourishing and best estate as that in that estate shee may be found somewhat to haue departed from Christ her Lord and head His Maiestie therefore to preuent this with great iudgement added And from Christ her Lord and head as to note that by her departing from Christ her Lord wee are to take knowledge of her departing from her selfe when shee was in her flourishing and best estate because then was her flourishing and best estate when shee was nearest to
sect 18. elsewhere and I should wonder but that it is his manner so to doe that the absurdity thereof being so displayed he would thus repeate it againe almost in the same wordes It shall be here sufficient thence briefly to answere him that the iustifying faith of a Christian man is not incident to the Diuell But the Diuell is capable of beleeuing all â—o bee true which God hath reueiled The Diuell could beleeue that God according to his promise would giue Abraham a sonne and make him the father of many nations Therefore iustifying faith is more then to beleeue all to be true vvhich God hath reueiled That more is plainly gathered of that which Cyprian saith d Cyprian de dupl martyrio Non credit in Deum qui non in â—o solo collocat totius foelicitatis suae fiduciam He beleeueth not in God that doth not place or repose in God only the confidence and trust of his whole felicity and happinesse Iustifying faith then is the reposing of trust and confidence in God only to obtaine of him eternall blisse and happinesse through the merits and mediation of Iesus Christ And this was Abrahams faith not a carnall beliefe only that God vvould giue him a sonne and a great posterity of many nations but a beleefe of a spirituall e Gen. 12. 2. Gal. 3. 8. 9. blessing in his seede according to the promise of God both to himselfe and to all the nations of the earth And this vve see in the place which M. Bishop citeth vvhere the Apostle alleaging that Abrahams faith was imputed to him for righteousnesse addeth f Rom. 4. 23. Now it is not written for him only but also for vs to whom it shall be imputed for righteousnesse What to beleeue that old and barren persons may haue children if God say the word as M. Bishop in the place before mentioned very rudely expresseth the faith of Abraham Nay but to beleeue in him that raised vp Iesus the Lord from the dead who was deliuered to death for our sinnes and rose againe for our iustification This was it which the faith of Abraham respected By beleefe of the promise of God g Iohn 8. 56. he saw the day of Christ He beleeued that of his seed should come a Sauiour both to himselfe and to vs who should be deliuered to death for our sinnes and rise againe for our iustification and by this faith he was iustified For the same faith saued Abraham that now saueth vs as hath beene before shewed But the faith that saueth vs is the faith of the Gospell the faith of Iesus Christ the faith of his Crosse the faith of his Bloud the faith of his Death and Resurrection Therefore this was also the faith that saued Abraham Thus M. Bishops heapes of testimonies proue for his part heapes of chaffe and not of corne they carry a shew of multitude but say nothing at all for him He is a â—aiâ—e man that goeth about by such allegations to impeach any peece of the Protestants iustification When he hath spent all his paper-shot the Protestants iustification vvill remaine still W. BISHOP §. 3. NOw I come to the other points named by M. Abbot There is nothing saith he in S. Paul for the merit of single life But he is greatly mistaken for the Apostle saith That the care of the single and vnmarried 1. Cor. 7. vers 32 33. 34. is to please God and their study to thinke vpon those things that appertaine vnto God and how they may be holy both in body and in spirit which must needes be more acceptable in Gods sight then to be carping for this world and caring how to please their yoke-mate To this wee adde Monkish vowes of which if hee were worthy to be a good Abbot he would speake more respectiuely somwhat S. Paul hath of the vow of chastiâ—y which is one of their principall vowes for he auoucheth certaine widdowes worthy of damnation because 1. Tim. 5. v. 12. they broke the same former vow of chastity And S. Paul himselfe shoare his head in Cenchris because Act. 18. vers 18. he had a vow which was the vow of a Nazarite not much vnlike for the time though much inferiour vnto the vow of religious persons see of that vow the sixt Chapter of the booke of Numbers There is nothing saith M. Abbot in S. Paul of prayer for the dead which is not true for he teacheth that some of the faithfull who haue built vpon the right foundation hay 1. Cor. 3. vers 13. stubble and such like trash shall notwithstanding at the day of our Lord bee saued yet so as through fire Which the ancient Doctors doe take to be the fire of SS Aug. in psal 37. Hieron lib. 2. cont Iouin 13. Ambros in hunc locum Gregor in psal 3. Poenitentialem Purgatory Now if many whiles the drosse of their workes be purged doe lie in fire it will easily follow thereof that euery good soule who hath any Christian compassion in him will pray for the release of their Christian brother out of those torments R. ABBOT THou maiest here see gentle Reader M. Bishops tergiuersation and manifest shifting I propounded out of Theodoret that the Epistle to the Romans containeth all manner doctrines of faith Vpon this ground I noted that the doctrine of Popery is to be condemned for that it containeth so many points as necessary articles of faith whereof there is nothing to be found in the Epistle to the Romans Herewith M. Bishop found himselfe greatly distressed On the one side he durst not openly reiect the testimony of Theodoret fearing least that haply might be some preiudice to him On the other side he saw he could not finde their religion in the Epistle to the Romans Now therefore silently he stealeth away and betaketh himselfe to the rest of Pauls Epistles not vpon any hope that he hath that he can thence make good his cause but for that hee findeth there some speeches deliuered vpon occasions whereby hee can better giue colour to some doctrines of theirs of which the Apostle neuer thought He telleth his Reader that I say there is nothing in St. Paul for the merit of single life But my saying was that in the Epistle to the Romans which Theodoret affirmeth to containe all kinde of doctrine there is nothing said for the merit of single life Well let him yet haue his way let vs giue him full liberty of the rest of St. Pauls Epistles and what hath he there for the proofe of it Forsooth he telleth vs that the Apostle saith that the care of the single and vnmarried is to please God and their study to thinke vpon those things that appertaine to God and how they may be holy both in body and in spirit which saith he must needes be more acceptable in Gods sight then to be carking for this world and caring how to please their yoke-mate But here he