end you ad that the Apostle doth shewe vs how he was dead and how he was aliue by adding dead flesh and quickened spirit The verie text as I take it will denie you this for it hath not that the spirit was quickened and the fleshe killed but that Christ was killed in the fleshe and quickened in the spirit which is all one as if he had said that the suffered death as he was man and ouercame death as he was God And this Paull doeth speake in other wordes that he was crucified in his infirmities yet liveth he through the power of God Fourthlie you say that the Scripture doeth joine this his going and preaching close to his passion As if it had said As soon as he had suffered he went and preached This as if includeth no necessarie matter We expect demonstration and wil not be caried with as and if Fiftlie you argue out of the 6. of Genesis that the preaching of Noah is attributed to the third person of the Deitie and not to the second The wordes be these My Spirit shall not alwaies striue with man because he is but flesh Which wordes fewe or rather no interpreters that euer I saw expound as you doe of the third person of the Deitie Tremelius and Iunins whose great panies learning and judgement all sinceare hearts do reuerence expound them thus I will not long dispute with my self saieth the Lorde what to doe with these men for my sentence shall stand that except they spedelie repent I wil destroy them Neither maketh it much against vs though it were as you would haue it For seeing the actions of the Deitie are cōmon to all the three persons he erreth not that giueth thē to any of the three So doth the scripturs in many places attribute the resurrectiō of Christ sometimes to the Father somtimes to the sonne and sometimes to the Spirit of sanctification And Christ himselfe telleth vs that whatsoeuer the Father doth the same he doeth also After this you object that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is disobedient some-time doth separate the time of their disobedience and his preaching But heere I must put you in minde that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is went disobedient preached be all of one tense in the Greeke and must needes be referred to one time so that hee went and preached to them euen then when they were disobedient And this the word disobedient doth confirme For to whome I pray you were they disobedient but to the spirit that preached to them As for the adverbe sometime it is not set heere to separate words of one time but to distinguish the time of their inprisonment which was present from the daies of their rebellion which was past in the dayes of Noah when the long patiēce of the Lord exspected their amendement Whereas you argue that this cannot bee spoken of Noah his preaching because he preached to men and not to Spirits I am perswaded that no man can preache to men and not to their Spirites because hee that teacheth a man instructeth his Spirit which is his reasonable soule And yet heere you may marke if it please you that there be two things heere spoken of preching prison the on pertayning to these spirits when they were men with spirits the other now that they are onelie spirits and that therfore the Apostle did discreetlie choose the name spirit which is common to both these tymes Lastlie you charge this construction with violēce for that we take the word spirit in one place for the Deitie of Christ and streight way againe for the spirits of men in prison I hope you will not denie but that the word is vsuall in both significations that it is no wrong to giue words their own significations when the drifts and circumstances of the place doth requyre them Hitherto I haue dealt with your objections against Beza Nowe I will proue with vnfallible reasons that your sense cannot stand with this text You take the word flesh onlie for the bodie of Christ which died and was buried and the word spirit for his humane soule which you beare vs in hand did descend into hell and did preach there to the soules that had ben disobedient and rebellious in the dayes of Noab If this your conceit shall go for current that which the Apostle speaketh heere of Christ may be verified as well of anie other man For when we die our soules die no more then his did But let vs look a little nearer the matter The spirit heere as it appeareth by the text doeth signifie that which gaue life to that that was dead That I trust was not his humane soule but his deuine and heauenlie spirit Thirdlie in this Participle mortified is comprised death which giuen to Christ is neuer taken in al the Scriptures for the temporal death of his bodie onlie but whatsoeuer Christ suffered either in soule or bodie for the redemption of our soules and our bodies doth compryse his whole passion Which if it bee true then the word flesh must be the whole subject of all this passion that is both his soule and body or the whole man Christ For hee suffered as well in soule for our soules as in bodie for our bodies or else he had beene but half a Redeemer Fourthlie seeing his bodie was quickned that is restored from the graue as well as his soule from hell If you take spirit heer for his humane soule then shal you confound those things that the Apostle doth distinguish attributing that to the soule alone which is commō both to the soule and the bodie Fiftlie seing quikned is to receaue life either which it neuer had or els had lost the soule cannot be said to be quickned because it neuer lost life after that it once liued with the bodie Heere you tell vs that quickened is to be deliuered from miseries and sorrowes Howe the English word may be taken I leaue it to the discretion of the discreete and indifferent reader But sure I am it will proue a hard thing to finde that signification either in the Latine word viuificari or the greeke word Zoopoteisthas which bee so mixed with life that if they signifie deliuerie from miseries then life it self must signifie miseries and sorrowes which though they follow on it are neuer signified by it If this deuise may stand you wil ouerthrow the Antithesis betweene dead and quickened For if quickned doth not signifie a restitution to life what contrariety hath it with mortefied or dead which signifieth the extinguishing of life Sixtlie spirit doeth heere signifie that which was free from death and the violence of his enemies This I hope you will not say was his humane soule wherein hee suffered the death of the soule that is the torments of Hell as well as in bodie the death of the bodie Seuinthlie the soule of Christ could not
preach beeing destitute of a tongue mouth and other organes of necessitie required in that action Eightlie to what end shuld Christ preach to those damned soules who were past the frute of his preaching that which you say that he went to reproue them is not liklie For meÌ„ are reproued either for amendement or to take away excuses which to these was needlesse beeing past all remedie and excuse Ninthlie this preaching was then when their dis-obedience was reform-able which was in the dayes of Noah and neuer since Add to these if it please you that moste infallible reason of Bezaes taken from the drift and scope of the text to whose notes I referre you being not able to handle it so well as hee hath done it himself HIL his Reply HEere you play the Captaine and will beate down bulwarks and therefore you should haue these 4. properties in you vertue knowledge authority and felicity for the first two they are in you God grant you vse theÌ„ to his glory but what authority you haue to interpret the word I know not therefore in this case I hope you shall haue no felicitie Where you say that this word spirit doth signifie the deity and this word flesh the humanity of Christ and that there is an antithesis betwene the diuine humane nature I confesse y â— spirit some time doeth signifie the Godhead and fleshe the humanity of Christ But they doo not so signifie in this place as I proue by the circumstances of the text and the woords them selues For where you say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 killed or put to death doth signifie the whole passion of Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth the resurrection of Christ that can note be for of the passion of Christ is mention made before in the same 18. verse Christ suffered for vs the just for the vnjust to bring vs to God Now after his sufferings ended as Peter saith he was both killed and made aliue Now of his resurrection is mention made in the 21. verse as of his ascention in the 22. verse Therfore seeing the sufferings of Christ are mentioned before and his resurrection is namelye set downe after whereof can these words he vnderstood but of the seperation of the body and the soule and of the state of them during their seperation for an antithesis as you know is of contrary or diuers things as in this place you see in killed and quickned now how both these were true at on time S. Peter doth shew for at the same time he was dead as concerning his body he was aliue in spirit that is in soule for the soule seperate from the body is aptly called a spirite Eccle. 12. 7. And dust returne to earth as it was and the spirite returne to God that gaue it So is it taken Heb. 12. 23. Act. 7. 49. and so doth this woord signifie in this place for Christ was not killed both in body and soule but only in body and in flesh for if the soule of Christ had bene killed then had it bene mortall Therefore Athanasius Epiphanius and all the Fathers which did confute the Heretiques called Damoerite and Appolinaris which denyed Christ to haue a soule do coÌ„fute them by this place prouing that his spirite was among the spirits that his soule seperate from his body was among the soules seperate from their bodies This interpretation you see is gathered out of Gods woord is made more manifest by the wordes following 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which we translate In which sprite he went and preached to the spirits in prison First you translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the which But in the 1. pet 16 you do not so translate it nor in the 2. Chap. and 12. ver the same woorde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are Eph. 1. 13. 2. 22. 5. 18. and so could I cite at the least an hundreth texts in the new Testament where if you translat 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the which or by whome you shall ouerthrow the meaning of the holy ghost The next word construing is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wâ—ich as I haue saide before so I auouche still is spoken noâ— of the deity neuer in all the Scriptures and therefore must needes be spoken of the soul of Christ To conâ—ute this you alleadg Gen. 18. 21. Exod. 3. 8. First I must tell you these bookes were written in the Hebrewe tong and not in the Ereâ—ke I craued an instant out of the new Testament Secondly in those places that you haue named y â— interpreters do traÌ„slate Iarad by y â— greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And this I proue Iohn 16. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For if I shall not depart the comforter wil not come vnto you but if I shal depart I will send him vnto you Heere you see when he speketh of the descending of the deity he vseth y â— word 368 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but when he speaketh of the humanitie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And in the same chapter verse the 28. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I came out from the Father and cam into the world againe I leaue the world and goe to my father And this proprietie of speach which the holy ghost vseth ought to be obserued I confesse the scriptures vseth the figure Anthropopatheia but when God is said to come downe there is vsed the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or some one of the forenamed and when mention is made of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is alwaies spoken of the humanitie as it is to be seen Luk. 4. 30. 9. 51. 52. 56. 57. Luk. 13. 22. Ioh. 8. 1. And in this place of Peter the last verse is vsed the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He went vp into heauen Therfore if you can quote but one text in the new Testament that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is figuratiuely applied to the deitie your interpretation may seeme tolerable but if yon can not as I knowe it is impossible then can you neuer proue your interpretation to be agreaeble to faith because it is not agreable to y â— word Out of the next word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this I note he that was killed and quickned did preach but Christ was killed and quickned ergo Christ not the deitie preched He preched not vocally for he was killed ergo he preached really in soule for here is noted First who preached Christ To whom to the spirits Where in hell When after his death and before his resurrection This is the order of Peter and of our Creede which cannot bee by man ouerthrowen The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is spirits also is not as you take it for you say it signifieth the men in Noahs time but you can not bring one scripture to proue it Therfore I say as I said before it signifieth soules seperated from the body That my exposition is true I haue prooued by three Scriptures Ecles 12. 7. Heb. 12. 23 Act. 7 59. Now as mine is true so will I proue yours to be false impossible by Christs owne words Luke 24 59. where our Sauiour to proue himselfe to bee noe ghoste but to haue a true body after his resurrection thus reasoneth Behold my hands my feet that I am the same handle me for a spirit hath no flesh and bones as yee see me haue This was Christs argument I haue a body therefore I am not a spirit and so I reason against you and your teachers The men in Noahs time had bodies ergo they could not be called spirits Euery boy can tel you in Oxford that substantia is deuided into corpus and spiritum and that one of these opposite species can not be affirmed of another And therfore to be short when you can proue out of the new Testament that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is iournying is spoken figuratiuely of the deity or Pneuma that is spirit signifieth a man y â— hath a body I will giue you the goale but if you will runne on this course vntill you haue proued these 2. points which you must doo if you will haue me to recant then take heede least you run your selfe out of breath Lastly the word Phylake that is prison doth signify hel as it is to be sene Apoc. 20. 7. When a thousand yeeres shall be fulfilled Satan shall be losed out of his prison Thus thou seest good reader how I haue proued my interpretatioÌ„ out of the word of God for euery word which our aduersaries can not doo for their interpretation therfore thou maist safely assure thy self ours to be good and theirs to be false And that this word prison doth signify hell you may see Epiphanius Athanasius Fulgentins centuria 1. lib. 2. cap. 14. Peter Martyr on the Crede Nowell in his Catechisme Beacon in the sick mans salue Crowlev in his answer to the reasons of Pound the Papist All these old and new writers haue alleadged this Scripture as I haue done with good warrant and conscience Now that I haue proued this my owne interpretation I will by Gods grace proue your answere to be friuolous First you confesse that killed and quickned are Participles of one tense and yet you say they are not referred to Christ at one time this is meerlye false as I thus proue Christ was after his passion dead aliue or neuer if he were neuer dead and aliue at one time then Peter saith not truly if he were dead and aliue at on time then you speak falsely Now you your selfe confessed that he was dead and aliue at on time alittle before and proued it out of the 2. Cor. 13. 4. He was crucified concerning his infirmity yet liueth hee by the power of God Heere by your own woords Christ was aliue when he was crucified so may I say w t Pet. he was aliue when he was dead at one time Then you say the flesh signifieth the manhode and spirite the deitye this also is vntrue for the body may be killed but the soule can not Again shew me any Scripture where on and the sam word in on sentence and period is taken for diuers things for in this sentence In which spirite hee went and preached to the spirits that ar in prison Heer the word spirit in the beginning of the sentence signifieth the deity in the latter end the same woord signifieth the men that liued in Noahs time by your interpretation but by my interpretation it signifieth the soule seperate from the body in both places For as Cirill saith as Christ was with the liuing in body and soule so to shew himselfe a true man his body was among the dead bodies and his soule among the soules Then you auouch the preching of Noah is attributed to the whole Trinity be it so but can you proue that Christ after he was killed did prech in Noah for this preaching was after Chriâ—â—s death which is mentioned in the 18. verse and before his resurrection which is spoken of in the 21. verse You goe forward and tell mee that pote doth not determine the Participle apeithesasi that is disobedient but ekeryxen that is preached I must tell you plaine you speak neither like a Deuine nor a Gramarian For an Aduerb is some time put to a Participle as Math. 2. 7. Tote erodes lathra kalesas tous magous Then Herod calling priuilye the wise men Sometime to a Noune as homo egregie impudens Somtime to an Aduerb as parum honeste se gerit Therfore the Aduerb pote comming after apeithesasi next immediatly and being distinguished from ekeryxen by a Comma cannot by any example in diuinitye or by any rule of Grammer be coupled with the verb ekeryxen Now to answer your infallible reasons First your reason against me that if my construction bee true then nothing did happen to Christ which might not be verified of any man And did you not blush wheÌ„ you wrote these things Can any mans soule goe to hell and returne againe For his going downe to hell I proue in the 19. verse and his returning from hell in the 21. verse Secondly you say the word spirit doth signifie that which gaue life what then as God giueth life to the body effectually so the soule giueth life to the body formally Your Geueua translation which you follow saith hee was quickned in the spirite not of the spirit And this I note against your side en in the 18. verse you translate In But in the next verse as though you had not done well in the former you translate it by Now you know the preposition dia signifieth by and not en as it appereth in the 21. verse and in many places mo dia anastaseos that is by the resurrection Moreouer if you had said quickned of the spirite then had you made a probable answer but no diuine is able to proue this exposition that Christ was quickned in the spirit that is in the deity for the deity is life it selfe Your third pregnant reason is that thanatotheis signifieth not only the death of the body but also the whole passion of Christ This can not be for the suffrings of Christ are set downe before in the same verse then in this word thanatotheis is shewed the maner of the death that Christ suffered that is hee was killed and
10. reasons and put other 10. to the other scale to counter-weigh them You neither defend your owne nor answere mine in order as they ly But like a mad Dog snatch heere one and there another and let them goe that you cannot bite I cannot follow your steppes they be so crooked Wherefore I will walke on my first steppes and seeke your answeres where I can finde them That which I say of the vse of the words you confesse and diuers of my reasons you slip without an answere The first of my reasons was from these wordes mortified in the flesh and quickened in the Spirit Thus If flesh heere doth signifie the body and spirit the humane soule then nothing in these words is spokeÌ„ of Christ that may not be verified of other men But in these words some singular matter is attributed to Christ that other men are not capable of For we cannot say that Augustine Ierome or Cyprian are mortified in the flesh and quickened in the spirit in that sense as it is heere spoken of Christ Ergo flesh is not the bodie and spirit the humane soule of Christ That which you answere of his desceÌ„ding into Hell and returning thence is not comprised in these words wheron my argument is builded though you gaue them your owne liverie and cloathed them in your owne cullours The second was this The Spirit heer doth signifie that which gaue life to that which was dead But the humane soul gaue not life to that that was dead Ergo the spirit doth not signifie the humane soule Heere you denie the maior and alleadge against the 〈…〉 which you call ours and should bee yours as well as ours if you and others of 〈…〉 highlie 〈…〉 in the flesh and 〈…〉 mortified as hee was man and quickened as hee was God by himselfe According to that of Iohn I haue power to lay downe my life and I haue power to take it vp againe Take your note of in and by and make a wheele-barrow of it But you moue me heere another question of some importance and craue an instance if I can in all the Scripture Howe one word in one period can carie two significations You are not I hope so verie an novice in Gods booke as you make your selfe Haue you not read Let the dead burie their dead Or labour not for the meat that perisheth but the meate that lasteth c. Or Who so will saue his life shall lose it Or Abraham rejoiced to see my day and saw it Or God is a spirit and will be worshipped in spirit wher you haue the same word in both significations O howe you would be-slouen mee if you could finde such a hole in my hose Now I feare nothing but that you craued an instance out of the olde Testament The third was If death whensoeuer it is attributed to Christ in the Scriptures compriseth the whole passion the fleshe in this text must be the subject of the whole passion that is the whole manhoode of Christ But deth is neuer attributed to christ but for the whol passioÌ„ Ergo flesh must be the subject of the passion that is the whole manhood of Christ Heer you denie the minor and like a skilfull Logician giue instance in the questioÌ„ If you haue not forgot your olde logicke the argument and the thing argued should not be one You supplie the imperfection of this answere with two arguments 〈…〉 that death in this place cannot signifie the passion 〈…〉 Your first reson is that the passion is mentioned before in the word suffred Be it so Yet it may bee repeated in more speciall tearmes By your reason in the beleef where a repetition is lesse tollerable crucified and died belong not to the passion because they are expressed before in the word suffered Suffering which may be in torturing whipping and imprisonment is too slacke a tearme to expresse the hellish tormentes of Christs passion The other is if mortified pertaine to the soule and bodie it will followe that the soule is also mortall You tell mee out of Athanasius in the reply to my fift section that by the double punishment inflicted on Adam the soule should die the death And I heard you preach in our Ladie Church at Sarum That when it was saide to Adam thou shalt die the death the meaning was he should die the death of soule and bodie Now if you wil apply these two significations of death to Christ the one to the bodie and the other to the soule I hope this objection wil neither scratch nor byte My fourth reason was this In this Antithesis mortified in the flesh and quickened in the spirite morfied belongeth not to the spirit nor quickened to the fleshe but mortified belongs to the soule for it died the death of the soule and quickened to the 〈◊〉 for it receaued life againe Ergo flesh is not the bodie onlie and spirit the humane soule To this you answere that Christ was raised from the dead and that was signified in the word resurrection vers 21. and therefore you do not confound these distinguished things antitheticallie opposed But wee that make mortâ—â—ed suffered quickned resurrection all one How this may answere mee I leaue it to the â—ead that bred it to explane But you do vs wroÌ„g we make not mortified suffered one c. Suffered and quickned ar tearms more general mortified raised againe more speciall expressing things more plainlie and particularie which were touched before more covertâ—â— and generallie My fift reason was To be quickened is to receaue life which the thing that is quickened either neuer had or els had loste But the soule had life in the bodie and neuer 〈◊〉 after Ergo the soule cannot bee quickened To this you answere nothing but tell vs by the same reason it can much lesse pertaine to the Deitie Thus thinking to wound vs with our owne weapon you strike short and with the back drawe blood at your owne brow I told you in my answere to your second objection that quickened is not heer attributed to the Deitie but to the whole Christ by the participatioÌ„ of proprieties How can you excuse your self heere of wilfull falsification But you mend the matter with a more sufficieÌ„t answere out of Ioh. That the soule of the beleeuer liueth though hee were dead What then Iohn telleth not your tale that the soule of the beleeuer is quickened when hee is dead That it liueth is not the question The burden of the bodie which you alledge out of the book of Wisd loadeth the soule but killeth it not And therfore when it is deliuered of that load it is not quickened but releeued And the renewing of the inward man which you alleadge from Paule quickneth not the soule being dead but addeth courage and comfort to the living and languishing soule by Gods promises Heere I see you are quite thrust froÌ„ your hold at Chippenham that
demum reddidit animatum quo purius inde ferretur ad coelum Here this man maketh the place where Christ was buried the mouth of hell meaning thereby the place of death our Doctor denies that and yet this is one of his Authors Aretius in the ninth of his common places fol. 31. Sed de illâ— non satis constat quamdiu apud inferos sit commoratus non diu vt apparet vt eadem die secundum animam ab inferis reversus gloriose Paradisum ingressus sit cum latrone Heere this man saith that Christ was not one day in hell M. Doctor saith that hee was there al the three daies that he lay in the graue and yet this is his chefest Authour Maister Nowell in his greater Catechisme saith Christum vt coâ—pore in terrae viscera Ita anima à corpore sepâ—rata ad inferos descendisse simulque etiam virtutis suae virtutem atque efficacitatem ad moâ—tuos atque inferos adeo ipsos ita penetrasse vt incredulorum animae acerbissimâ—m justissimamque infidelitatis suae daÌ„nationem â—pseque Satanas iâ—ferorum princeps tyrannidis suae tenebrarum potestatem omnem debâ—â—itatam fractam aâ—que ruina collapsâ—m â—ssâ— persentiret Contra vero mortui Christo dum vixerunt fidentes redemptionis suae â—pus jam peractum esse ejusq vim atque virtutem cum suavissima cerâ—â—ssimaque consolatione intelligeâ—ent atque perciperent Heere gentle Reader because Maister Doctor wrongeth this good man then whome the earth beareth not many and as I am perswaded 〈◊〉 any better I pray thee mark this place well for these are the onely wordes that M. Doctor challengeth in all his workes First thâ—u maâ—est obserue that he vseth the name inferi not for the damned onely but for al the dead because he saith that by Christs descending ad inferos both the wicked felt the justnes of their damnation and the godly the sweetnes of their salvation and so Christus descendit ad inferos is but Christ descended to the dead Secondly that he saith not that Christs soule descended into the hell of the damned as our Doctor doth but that his soul being severed from his body that is beeing departed this life he discended ad inferos that is was laid vp amongst them whose life was blotted out of the memory of the living Thirdly hee saith not that those to whome he descended saw him there personally but they felt and vnderstood the one their jâ—st damnation the other their sweet salvation together with his descending to the dead that is presently vpon the dissolution of his soule and body Wherefore great wrong hath our D. done this man to wâ—ing hiâ— words being somewhat obscure to a sense that he never meant and to brag of him as being the father of an opinion that I dare hope for he is yet aliue he doth disallow His opinion is amongst all the godly allowed to be true thâ—ugh not so wel fitting the article of the Creed but our D. opinion no man accepteth yet for trueth except it be himself and his favorities Thus I haue set down what jarring there is betweene this man and his authors Now I will shewe thee how he hath pulled some into this braul that never dealt in the matter to make his muster booke long ynough to feare mâ—n with naked names Robert Samuell in the boâ—ke of Martyrs making a confession of his faith when he comes to this point saith no more thaÌ„ the words of the beleefe which be meant as wel with vs as with him and him he quotes for one Lambeâ—t in the same book handling the question of the real presence quotes a place out of Aug. ad Dardanum to proue that Christ being corporally in heaven is not corporally in the Sacrament in which place being long Aug. amongst those things that Lambert quotes him for saith that Christ according to his soule was in the bottome of hel which if it be wel taken may be was devoured and swallowed vp of death but Lambert himselfe neither alloweth nor dissalloweth it as being a thing beside his question and yet hee is alleadged for one M. Fox writeth a litle Pamphlet intituled Christ triumphing be cause in it is displaied the greatnes of the battell the worthines of the victory the joye of the conquest The Printer for I think M. Fox neuer cared greatly what signe they hanged at his shop dore or if it was M. Fox himselfe all is one devised a picture to expresse the matter within the book A man with foure wound in his hands fect invested in a bright cloud with a glistering flame as it were of fame glory glimmering about his face standing with the one foot on the head of a Dragon and the other on the heart of death This picture M. Doctor tooke to be so sure an argument of Christs descending into hell that he not onely causeth to set it before his owne bâ—â—k likewise but also repeateth the name of M. Fox 4. times if not oftner as favouring his opinion hauing to my knowledge not one word in al his works and I am sure not one syllable in the book which he quotes of Christ triumphing saving that picture Thus gentle Reader I haue giuâ—n thee a vewe of 23. of M. Doctors Authors of whome some speake against him some differ from him some say nothing for him wherefore thou maiest conclude that it is but a painted cause that alleadgeth pictures for arguments there is not one of al the Authours that he masters so often that agreeth with him in all things concerning this opinion Cajetane a Cardinall of Rome writing vpon the place of Peter Iâ— he had not scarred at his popish name commeth neeâ—er him than any of these Vt ipse Christus mortificatus carne nam vere mortuus est secundum carnem viuificatus autem spiritu nam tunc cum mortuus erat viuificatus erat spiritu vt pote beatus secundum spiritum triumphans de daemonibus Here he hath his descending into hell his triumphing over the Deuils his being aliue when he was dead and his flesh for the body spirit for the humane soule Therefore good Reader let him follow Cajetan and follow thou the trueth FINIS The second consideration is better than the first The admitting of a man to a degree of schoole in Oxford is called a grace Synod Ed. Quemadmodum Christus pro nobis mortuus est sepultus ita est etiam credendus ad inferos descendisse Nam corpus vsque ad resurrectioneÌ„ in sepulchro iacuit spiritus ab illo emissus cum spiritibus qui in carcere siue in inferno detinebantur fuit illisque predicauit queadmodum testatur Petri locus Synod Eliz. principium tantum retinuit Quemadmodum Christus pro nobis mortuus est sepultus ita est etiam credendus ad inferos descendisse A true and godly opinion The Paralogismes in the D. reply 1 My argumeÌ„ts
that spoake breake Now heere beholding the maior and the minor two brasen vnbreakable walles you set all your teeth on the poore conclusion to pull it from them To take this place of this Psalme quite from vs you alledge the holie Ghost and Peter two sufficient witnesses because they referre this place to the resurrection and we to the passion Allace good Doctor vbiacumen tuum Doe not you see man that though the negatiue Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell pertaineth to the resurrection yet the affirmatiue that his soule was in hell may pertaine to his passion Peter alledgeth the negatiue in the Psal to proue his resurrection and our question is not whether hee rose againe or not but whether the thing wherein he was is to bee taken for the place or the panges of hell And heere I muste needes confesse that this consideration hath driuen mee quite from Calvine whome in this place I first followed As for the place of the beleefe I am perswaded that his sense is moste agreable beeing godlie consonant to the Scriptures necessarie for the perfection of the creede not repugnant to the circumstances thereof and moste comfortable to a Christian conscience But in this place of this Psal now I see that Olevians opinion is truer more consonant to the rest of the text and more plaine against your drousie dreame Wherfore now I am perswaded that SHEOL is heer set for the state of the dead and my soule for mee as it is Psal 3. 2. Manie say to my soule that is to mee And Psal 7. 2. Least hee devoure my sonle lyke a Lyon that is mee And Psal 6. 3. My soule is sore troubled that is I am sore troubled So the sense must bee Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell that is mee amongest the deade That this must needes bee the true sense heereof I haue two reasons First that this was the SHEOL wherein Christes soule was not left whence hee rose againe as may appeare by this allegation of Peter But hee rose again from the graue and condition of the deade not from hell and condition of the damned Ergo the SHEOL wherein Christs soule was not left is the condition of the dead and not the place of the damned The answere here that he rose in soule and body the one from hell and the other from the graue will not holde for the name of resurrection belongeth onelie to the bodie because nothing ryseth againe but that which death laide downe So hath our beleefe the resurrection of the bodie not the resurrection of the soule This was M. Fieldes argument which did choake you in the act at Oxonford and hang so fast in your teeth that hee coulde not get it out of your mouth much lesse an answere to it The other is builded vpon the wordes of Peter Act. 2. 19. Men and brethren I may boldlie speake to you of the patriarch Dauid that hee is dead and buried and his sepulchre is amongest vs to this day In which wordes expounding this place of the Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption hee laboureth to proue that Dauid spake not this of himselfe but of the Messias that was to come of his loines His reason is because Dauid is deade and buried and his sepulchre remained amongest them as if he had said because Dauids soule was left in Hell and saw corruption For where the negatiue is not true there the affirmatiue muste bee true by the rule of contradiction Wherevpon thus I reason Dauids soule that is Dauid himself as I haue said before was left in the SHEOL wherin Christs soule should not be left But Dauids soule was left in the state and condition of death Ergo it was the state and condition of death wherein Christes soule was not left by this place The same argument may bee formed negatiuelie to take away your exposition of this place Dauids soule was left in the SHEOL wherof it is said in the Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption But Dauids soule was not left in the place of the damned Ergo it is not the place of the damned whereof it is said in the Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption Wheras some alledge against this interpretation that it doeth violate the text taking the soule first for the whole man the whole againe for the bodie Let them consider that the condition of the dead expressed heere in the name of SHEOL pertaineth not to the body only but to the whole man Neither were it injurie to the text if it be so taken For the cup is set for wine and wine for the blood of Christ by Paull himself who vseth not to violate wordes These reasons therefore haue led mee from Calvine whome though I reuerence as he is well worthie as much as anie man yet I am not so maried to him howsoeuer M. Doct. is perswaded otherwise to folloâ—e him the bredth of a haire beyond truth and reason Hee may bee deceaued aswell as others though he hath plunged through manie deepes that haue devoured manie Nowe to returne againe and to followe vpon your walke you charge mee heere as euerie where with an vntruth To fasten it vpon mee you turne my wordes out of their figured coate into their bare skinne For whereas I say that Christ suffered the whole tormentes of hell vpon the crosse taking the drosse by a Synecdoche for the whole passion as he did before mee which said God forbid that I delight in any thing but in the crosse of Christ The preaching of the crosse is to manie foolishnes Christ reconciled vs to God by his Crosse You tell mee that it is most vntrue because he did not suffer his whole torments on the wodden Crosse which Symon the Cyrenian did beare on his backe And to make my wordes more odious you do them more injurie For whereas I say hee suffered the whole tormentes of Hell on the Crosse a thing defend-able you charge mee as saying he suffered all his torments vpon the Crosse meaning the Crosse of wood a thing without shewe of truth In the ende to fasten another little faulte on me it is but blasphemie you wring my last wordes in the fame presse For whereas I say that a word of double signification standeth at the courtesie of the reader to be taken as shall seeme most probable meaning that there is nothing in the word it self to lead the mynde to one signification more then another but depends vpon the probable circumstances and drift of the text you charge mee as making the Scriptures like a nose of waxe to bee set which way mens fantasie will bend it a thing as farre out of my penne as out of my heart and as far out of my heart as it is out of your heart to take my
bee in Latine Thus much for the aunswere that you deale with You left another answere which I will heere set against your argument in his best liuery If the man is said to be say you wher the soule is then where the man is not the soule is not But the man is saide to bee where the soule is Ergo where the man is not the soule is not First say I the maior is not true For though the man may bee said to bee where the soule is by a Synecdoche yet it will not follow that where the man is not the soule is not Because this speach is simple and that is figuratiue In a good argument the wordes must carie one face not heere one and there another To examplifie this with your owne examples out of Math 8. Manie shall rest with Abraham Isaac and Iacob in the kingdome of heauen Abraham Isaac and Iacob are said to be in heauen by a figure becaus their soules are there But if you will take the words simplie and conclude because Abraham that is the whole man is not in heauen therefore his soule is not there euerie carter will finde the absurditie of your fallacie This for my first reply Now I add that you flee from the wordes of the text For Christ said not to Marie I haue not beene with my Father but I am not yet ascended to my Father which wordes will admit no forme to carie your conclusion turne them and winde them as you list For the Scripture denieth in plaine words that the name of ascension can be giuen to the soule I hope you will grant that Dauids soule is in heauen and yet of him it is saide Act. 2. 34. David is not ascended This wypeth also away your other objection of two ascensions For that name was neuer yet giuen to a man in respect of the soule And therefore I will haue the goale though you stand in it You wring out of my examples of the whole race of mankind Campions bodie two absurdities The one that I hold no greater vnion betweene Christs soule and his bodie then al the men in the world The other that I holde the soule of Christ to bee mortall because I compare it to an integral part of Campions body Why M. Doctor haue you now you are Doctored forgot the olde speach of the Schooles when you were a generall Quae comparantur in vno non comparantur in omnibus Things cōpared in one thing are not like in all things You may bee like your Father and yet perhappes your Father coulde not wrangle in this matter like your selfe And the Cuckow singeth onelie in the spring like the Nightingall though in melodie and variety of notes there bee no likelie-hood at all An argument taken indefinitly from the manhood of Christ to his soule and his bodie parts thereof is no better then from the race of mankinde to euerie particular man or from the bodie of the traitour Campion to the parts thereof And yet if you regarde the vnion of the soule body or the immortality of the soule there is no more comparison then betweene your spirit and your Fathers if it was righter or the Cuckowes song and the Nightingals beeing far sweeter Lastlie you tel mee that I vtter a great error in these wordes the whole man Christ Indeede if I had said man the whole Christ I had perchance opened my head to this venew But now I am faster locked then that you can fasten anie blowes vpon mee with the best weapons in your armorie For seeing the worde of truth doeth call Christ a man so manie times I am perswaded it wil not proue so foule an errour to cal the whole man Christ except you can proue that some part of him was Christ and not the whole The testimonie of Athanasius to confute this errour toucheth not mee The conclusion out of Irenaeus though it might haue a favourable construction I leaue it amongst the judgements of men which you haue promised not to trust sect 3. HVME Sect. 12. NOwe let vs come to the great bulwark of your defense which you made choise of to raze the whole worke vpon I meane to bee the text of your sermon It is written in the first of Pet 3. That Christ was put to death in the flesh and was quickened in the spirit By the which spirit he went and preached to the spirites that are in prison and were disobedients in the dayes of Noah c Heere Beza whome we follow because he commeth nearest to the true sense of the Apostle by this word Spirit doth giue vs to vnderstand the Deity of Christ following Iohn who called God a Spirit and by this word flesh his māhood containing both his body and soule as hee findeth it vsed of Paule God was made manifest in the fleshe Which Antithesis of the divine and humane nature Paule doeth also expresse in the same wordes which was made of the seede of Dauid according to the fleshe and declared mightelie to bee the sonne of God according to the Spirit Where you see that he vseth the words no otherwise then he findeth them vsed in the Scriptures Now that this cānot be the sense of them you reason thus First say you this Participle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doeth signifie some motion from some place can by no meanes agree with the diuine essence which beeing at one time in all places cānot at anie time leaue any place To this I answere that it is spoken of the same spirit in the 18. of Gen. I will go downe and see whether the Sodomites haue done according to the crie that is come vnto mee And in Exod. 3. I am come to deliuer them out of the hands of the Aegyptians You can not bee ignorant M. Hill that the spirit of God speketh so manie times of the Deity by a figure called Anthropopatheia when God doth declare his presence in one place more thē in another by some notable effect Which in this place was most necessary to note vnto vs the cōtinual presence of Christ in his church departing as it were from all other places which indeede hee cannot and sitting in it as it were a continual ruler and moderator therof Next you alledge the other participle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is quickened that because it is a passiue it can not stand with the Deitie which cannot suffer at al. This we denie not For we attribute not this participle to the Deitie but to the whole Christ God and man Neither doth the text say that the spirit was quickned but that Christ was quickened in the Spirit Thirdlie you tel mee that mortified and quickened are contraries both attributed to Christ at once to note vnto vs that he was both dead and aliue at one instant Heere we confesse that they be attributed to one Christ but why they shold be referred to one time wee see no reason to induce vs to think it To this
suffered a violent death For thanatotheis being deriued of thanateo must needs signifie put to death Now I hope you wil not say Christ was put to deth in soul body but in body only And wher you say that Christ suffered in soule aswell as in body that is true that is gathered not of thanatotheis y â— is killed but out of these words antecedent for Christ suffered the iust for the vniust No reasonable man but hee will say that the sufferings of Christ are comprised rather in the word suffered then in y â— word killed To your fourth reason I reply that Christ was raysed from the dead but it is specially signified in the word resurrection ver 21. therfore I do not confound those things that are distinguished but your selfe for you make suffered and killed all one and quickned and the resurrection all one and so mak not only a confusion but a tautology and needelesse repetition which neuer was read in the word of God To your fift argument where you say zoopoiâ—isthai is to receaue life I confesâ—e it is to be made aliue Then you vrge it can not be spoken of y â— soule which neuer lost life Then by y â— same reason more strongly it can not be spoken of the Godhead which hath doth shal liue for euer for God caÌ„ not receaue life but y â— soule is said to liue when he is out of the body not because he liued not before but because y â— body doth hinder y â— actions of the soule Iohn 11. 25. He that beleeueth in mee though he were dead yet shall he liue Sap. 9 15. The corruptible body is heavie vnto the soule the earthie mansion keepeth downe the minde that is full of cares 2. Cor. 4 16. Therfore we faint not but though our outward man perish yet our inward man is dayly renewed Heere Paul sayth the weaker the body is y â— stronger is his soule therefore the death of the body is the life of the soule To drawe to ane ende your Antithesis of the Deuinitie humanitie is answered before For your Antithesis must be of things contrary or at the least diuers and seperate but as you affirme truly the Godhead was never seperated from the humanitie therefore this antithesis is of the body and soule which at this time were deuided and not betweene the deity and humanitie which were alwaies vnited wherfore this bulwarke I can assure you will stand and you haue ouershot both it your self in attempting to ouerthrow it For the very scope of the Apostle is this all Christians must suffer afflictions for well doing for Christ did not only suffer both in body and soule but also was put to a shamefull death in his body and in his soule went downe to the soules in hell which were vnbeleeuers in the dayes of Noah but Christ did arise againe from hel and the graue and ascended both in body soule to heauen therfore shal you that suffer for wel doing be deliuered from death and hel by his merits and goe vp into heauen and be partakers of his glory as you haue ben partakers of his affliction Moreouer as you referre mee to reade Bezas greate notes one this text so I pray you to reade Aretius handling this place whose words ar these Generally sayth Aretius Pet. repeateth three effectes of Christs death if you marke it wel The first pertaineth to the damned The second to the elect The third the person of Christ The first was declared in his descending in to hell The second in his resurrection The third in his ascention into heauen This is the true and naturall meaning of this place which wee will follow leauing the intrications of other interpretations I willinglye confesse this place is very hard for Augustine doubteth of it Luther douteth of it how it is to bee vnderstoode but this obscurity aryseth not of the place but of the varietie of interpretations If thou marke the plainnesse of the place the matter will be easye but that pleaseth not all men therefore that euery on may establish his owne sence they apply the words of the Apostle Peter to their owne conceit But leauing these let vs imbrace that which the words do teach vs in the which if we attaine to the truth it is well if not yet they shall bee probable because they haue warrant out of the scriptures and leane to the very letter to reto otherwise it is certain the knowledge of man to be vnperfect in many questions of holie scripture of the which the Apostle doth warne vs 1. Corin. 15. For now wee knowe vnperfectlie I haue sayd here is declared three effects of Christs death which differ in time are set in order in the Creede The first effect is that Christ being dead denounced eternal paines to the wicked in hell The words of the Apostle are these In which spirite he went and preached to the spirits detained in prison I take the place simply of the descence into hell for so the words do plainly sound and I see al the Fathers so to interpret them Augustine Epist 99. and Ciprian doth manifestly interpret this place of the descending into Hel. Neither doth the word prison hinder this Interpretation which in the Apocal. 20. 5. is taken for hel When a thousand yeers shal be fulfilled Satan shall be losed out of his prison Therefore the prison that Peter heere speaketh of is the place deputed to the damned Hyther came Christ as we confes in the Creede He went downe into Hell where Hell is it is a foolish curious question to enquire sith no man coÌ„ming to that place euer returned but only Christ Furthermore what Christ did there Peter expresseth he preached to the spirits that is he declared that he shewd himselfe manifestly to the world and made that dire and mornefull sermon namely to y â— wicked that the mirit of his death did nothing pertaine vnto them but by his presence were confirmed those punishments of the which Noah and other prophets had forwarned them And the tyme of this Preaching I referre not to the tymes of Noah but to the tyme of hys descending into Hell Wherevnto agreeth the worde pneumasi that is spirits for hee preached to the spirits that is to dead and not to liuing men Thus sarre Aretius I could heere alleage many other newe Writers whiche are of my iudgement but because you yeelde them no credite therefore of purpose I will omit them HVME his Reioynder to the 12. sect THis berrie is so confused that I can not finde where to enter my firret First I prooued that Beza whome we follow in this place doth no violence to the wordes but vseth them as hee findeth them vsed by Iohn Paull and Peter Which foundation beeing laide I answere your
your self or half so indifferent as men do wish that wish you well you might haue seen that the graue is vsed by a Metonymi◠for all the dead whether layd vp in the bowels of the earth or floting in the sea or devoured of rauenous beasts For the Hebrue SHEOL doth not so much signifie the graue which for want an other word we are forced to set for it by a Metonymia as that which the greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doeth better expresse by the privation of light or life separating all the dead which in Latine be called inferi and manes from the living which they call superstites And not comprysing onelie them which are buried in a graue as you do ignorantly suppose heere nor the damned as you do as wiselie hold in another place Thus the very heathens did vse this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith Homer that is hee sent manie worthie soules not to the hell of tormentes that had beene a bad rewarde for their worthinesse but to the dead or to the graue So is the same word vsed by Nonnus a Christian Poet of great antiquitie in his Paraphrase vpon Iohn cap 11. speaking of Lazarus who you will not saye I hope was in Hell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is and hearing amongst them that were dead rotten the fugitiue corps returned again out of hel The same authour in the same place vseth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the same signification whence the Latines haue borrowed their Barathrum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is who raised vp the dead Lazarus skipping out of the smokie gulfe and returning from the dead So the Latines vsed their Orcus and Tartarus not deuiding the damned and the saued but the dead and the living by the privation and habit of light and seeing Wher you aske mee why Dauid should speake of their temporall death which is common to all I tolde you if you will be tolde it to solace himself by the rememberance of their malice that it was not euerlasting but should cease with their short liues You conclude this section with a new syllogisme with protestation to good M. Hum◠so you call him to answere it plainelie The lower partes of the earth signifie not the graue but hell Christ descended into the lower parts of the earth Ergo Christ discended into Hell Now M. Hume to deserue your good name first denies the maior secondlie he replyes to the minor that in his judgement the lowermost partes of the earth that Christ descended into may wel be taken for the base and meane estate that the sonne of God discended into vpon the earth The sonne of a Carpentar borne in a stable cradled in a cratch and living in a base estate without a hole to hide his head in was even the lowest and basest partes of the earth Hee could not well goe lower Thus Hume bids you goe your way and take this for an answere HVME Sect. 9. YOur other places be I wil pearce through all the lowermost partes of the earth and looke on them that bee a sleepe Eccles 24. And they shall be cast downe into the lowermost parts of the earth and sleep in the middest of the vncircumcised Ezech. 31. 18. which two places by your leaue cannot be well meant of Hel. Except that you can perswade vs that there is sleepe that is rest and quietnes in Hell but of the graue and state of the dead whereof wee haue as commonlie almoste as stones in the streete he did sleepe with his Fathers The same wordes ERETS TACHTITH which you say doth signifie properlie Hell be so vsed by the Prophet David Psal 139. 14. That they can no wise bee taken in that signification except it can be proued that Dauid was fashioned and made in Hell His wordes bee these My bones are not hid from thee though I was made in a secrete place and fashioned beneath in the earth Here Beza doeth well obserue that the place of the Apostle which you alledge may fitlie bee applied to the sense of this place and note vnto vs the discense of Christ into the wombe of the Virgine HIL his Reply FIrst you say the place quoted by me Syrac 24. 37 maketh not for the proofe of my assertion If you had considered what went before and what followeth you wold haue bin of another mind For before in the 8. verse is saide I alone haue gon round about al the compas of heauen and haue walked in the bottome of the depth Which depth Pellicanus alearned writer doth interpret abyssum mortis inferorum the depth of death and hel Yea the whole Chapter speaketh of the Sonne of God and of his wondrous workes in sauing mankinde of the which this is on that he was not only aliue among the liuing but after death his bodye was among the dead bodyes and his soule among the soules in hell which hee calleth the lower parts The like scripture to this is in Iob. 38. 16 17. Hast thou entered into the bottom of the sea or hast thou walked to seeke out the depth haue the gates of death bin opened vnto thee or hast thou seene the gates of the shadowe of death These words are thus opened by Martin Borrhauius in his learned Commentaries vpon Iob. I haue dwelled in the highest places and my throne is in the pillar of the cloudes I haue gone rounde about the compasse of heauen aboue and haue wallted in the flouds of y ◠sea I pearce through all the lower parts of the earth Haue those in hell or the dead bin searched out of thee dost thou knowe their estate and condicion and what shall happen to their bodyes hereafter and what doth happen to their soules now The force of death and of hell hee maketh maniefest by the names of gates as it is manifest in that scripture and the gates of hell shall not prevaile against thee By these words it is euident that the nethermoste partes of the earth Syrac 24 37. and Zalmaueth the Hebrue word Iob. 38 17. doo signifie hell and that none but the Sonne of God aboue hath personaly shewed himself in all these places For the place in Ezechiel that it maketh most significantly for my purpose I wil proue it by Esay Ezech and diuers other both learned modest writers Esay 14 9. handling the same matter saith Hel beneth is moued for thee to meet thee at thy comming And Ezechiel in the 15. and 16. verses calleth it hell plainly Sith then both the prophets call it hell how dare you to interpret the graue that the nethermost parts of the earth do signifie hell I prooue it out of the 12. ver of Ezechiel And the strangers haue destroyed him euen the terrible nations and they haue left him vp on the montaines and in all the vallies his branches are broken Munster
on this place saith that by the branches are vnderstoode the carcasses of his hoast which the veasts of the field did deuour Lauaterus the Minister of Tigurin agreeth with him All the beasts of the field shall dwell vpon his ruine the kings carkas shall not be laide vp into the sepulcher of his elders but shall be a pray to crowes griphins and other carniâ—orous birdes So doth Pellican a learned Linguist interpret this place at the laste there is ane auersion or Apostrophe to Pharao himselfe or to the Assyrian King To whom art thou liâ—ened O thou noble and high among the trees of pleasure thou hast passed all other in power and yet with other kings that were in thy company they were brought to the lowest parts of the earth that is to hell among the abhominable heathen shalt thou sleepe and lye as a wretched and miserable man Now because you tak holde of the word sleepe you must remember that these words ar spoken ironically as it is noted in the contents of Esay 14. The derision of the king of Babilon Moreouer Lauaterus on this place of Ezech. saith These things may be better vnderstood out of the 14. of Es which prophecying of the destructioÌ„ of y â— king of Babilon Baltassar describeth with what bitter scoffs he is entertained in hell To end Lauaterus on this place proueth these four things first that there is ane hell secondly that hel in this chapter is called by three names that is 1. SHEOL 2. ERETS TACHTITH 3. BOR Hell the lowest parts of the earth and a pit thirdlie that this Hel is beneath vs and lastlie that the tyrants and wicked of the world do discend into it and this he proueth out of Numb 16. 33. Psal 55. 15. And addeth also that Tertullian and Ierome doo proue hel to be beneath in the earth The conclusion then is thus for as much then as the Assyrians dyed with the sword and were deuoured of the beasts and birds of the fielâ— I pray tell mee how that can bee true that you affirme that the lowest partes of the earth doth signifye the graue for howe were they in the graue y â— were neuer buried therfore they were in hel as both Esay and Ezechiel doo affirme and as Pellican Munster Lauater three notable lerned men in the holy tong doe interpret it I thinke your owne friends when they reade this will confesse you either to bee ignorant of the word of God or els to wrest it contrary to the meaning of the holy ghost Moreouer where you mislike with me because I said that ERETS TACHTITH that is the lowermost partes of the earth doth signifye hell generally in the Hebrew toong and you bring an instance out of the 139. Psal and 14. verse where you proue that the lower parts of the earth doth signifie the mothers womb therefore it doth not signifie hell alwaies this is a childish reason In a metaphorical signification it signifieth the mothers womb therefore in his proper signification it can not signifie hell Argumentum a metaphora ductum non valet an argument drawen from a metaphore is of no force And that heere is a metaphor M. Caluin shall be the iudge He compareth saith Caluin the mothers wombe to the lowest and inward dens of the earth and a little after for no doubt Dauid would expres metaphoricaly that inestimable cunning which appereth in the figure of mans body The mothers womb is compared to hel for the darknes of it for as Caluin saith that artificer which maketh a cunning peece of worke in a darke place is more to be commended then hee which doth the like in the light Dauid also is heere saide to bee made in the nethermost parts of the earth 336 because he was by nature the child of wrath and of hell if he had not bin deliuered therehence by Iesus Christ Breefely where you say that he descended in to the Virgins wombe and that it is the true meaning of the place Eph. 4. 9. both you and your M. Beza are deceaued For Paul reproueth you Ep 4. 10. He that descended is even the same that ascended Now the body and soul of Christ ascended into heauen therefore the body and soule of Christ descended into the virgins wombe if the body did descend into the virgins womb then Christ took not flesh of the virgin Thus that you may contradiâ—t me you are not affraid ignorantly or wittinglye to deny the incarnation of our Sauiour Theophilact saith well of these words when you read that the Sonne of man came down from heauen you may not think that his flesh came down froÌ„ heauen for this is y â— opinion of Heretiques which did teach that Christ brought his body from heauen and did passe through the virgin I hope you holde not this opinion but if you hold this interpretation you must needs fall into it For he that descended is euen the same that ascended Eph. 4. 10. Violence in this section done to the text by the Doctor First that the whole 24. chap. of Eccles speaketh of the Sonne of God and of his wonderfull workes in saving mankinde of the which this was one that he was not onelie aliue amongst the living but after death his bodie was amongest the dead bodies and his soule amongst the soules in Hell c. That Esay in 14. 9. and Ezech. in the 15. verse of his 31. cap. calleth that Hel plainelie which Ezech. in the 18. verse of the same chapter calleth the lowermost partes of the earth That in the 31. 18. vers of Ezech. Thou shalt bee cast downe in the lowermost parts of the earth and sleepe in the middest of the vncircumcised the word sleepe is taken ironicallie That in Eph. 4. it is ment that Christ descended in soule and body as he ascended in soule and body A new rule in Logick that argumentum a Metaphora sumptum non valet HVME his reioynder to the 9. sect FIrst marke that by a general axiome whatsoeuer a man alledgeth to proue a thing either doutfull or vnknowne the same must be better knowne and inforce such a necessitie of consequence as cannot be denied The thing that you haue heere in hand to proue is that the lowermost parts of the earth is as proper and peculiar a name for the place of the damned as Hell is in English To proue this your testimonies should be without controulment But are in deede so farre short of that marke that they are if not harder altogether as hard and obscure as the place that they are alleadged to illustrate The first of them I haue dispatched in the former section The next is out of the 24. of Eccles a booke not Canonicall nor written in the tongue whereon wee stand In which respect I might haue rejected it But becaus one answere serued it and your