prayed for the faith of S. Peter and so consequently for the faith of all his sucessours according to the opinion of the aduersary * In their Rhemish notes vpon the 28 of S. Luke verse 31. that it should neuer fayle But if any Bishop of Rome may proue a false Christian and liue so lewdly that he may dye a Reprobate then vndoubtedly euery Bishop of Rome is not the true successour of S. Peter vnlesse a true faith may contradict in maners the things which it professeth in words for it was a true faith in S. Peter which our Lord prayed for to continue in his Church and not a vaine fayth And if it be true that the Bishop of Rome may erre as he is man but not possible as he is Pope that is to say although in person he may erre in his priuate doctrine and maners yet not possible to erre iudicially or definitiuely then could it not be preiudiciall to the Church although Antichrist himselfe were Bishop of Rome * See S. Chrisost vpon the â— to the Thâ—ssa and S. Barnaâ—d in hâ—s 123. Epistle and Vniuersall Bishop But according to diuine reason this séemes not agréeable to trueth Gregory My sonne If this be permitted to be lawfully spoken f In his 4. Booke and 36. Epistle the honor of all Patriarchies is denied and perhaps when he peâ—isheth in errour which is called vniuersâ—ll then no Bishop is found to haue remayned in the state of trueth c. I say therefore the vniuersall Church g In his 6. Booke and Epiâ—tle 24. falleth to ruine if one Vniuersall fall But farre be this vanity and foolishnessâ— from my eares c. * A true faith doth not contradict in maners the things which it professeth in words * for which Hom. 29 in Euâ—ng Tit. 1. cause it was sayd of certayn false ChristiaÌ„s by S. Paul * that they confessed God in words but denied him in deeds by S. Iohn * that whosoeuer sayth he knoweth â— Iohn 2. God and keepeth not his coÌ„maundements is a Lyar Which being so we must examine the trueth of our faith by consideration of our life for then not otherwise are we true Christians if we fulfill in works that whereof we haue made promise in words c. Lay. Would to God thy successours had bene of the same mind herein as thou and thy predecessours were for then the Church vniuersally could neuer haue bene so much diuided as it hath bene for most true it is according to thy speach that within lesse time then this 200. yéeres past hardly was there a Bishop to be fouÌ„d remayning in that sincere and pure doctrine taught in the Primitiue Church but being reuolted and departed from that sound doctrine they all from the highest to the lowest taught lyes in hypocrisie euen as Saint Paul prophested of them forbidding to marry h 1. Tim. 4 1 2 3. and commaunding to abstayne from meates lawfully to be eaten with other such like errours and deceyueable doctrines But the principall cause of such vniuersall euils thou hast playnely declared to procéede from the pride of him called vniuersall Bishop which man wée take to be no better then Antichrist himselfe for according to S. Paul i 2. Thesse 2. 4. he sits hypocritically in the Temple of God in word The seruant of seruants but in déede extolling himselfe aboue all power on earth for by vsurped authority he séekes not onely to be supreme head ouer all Bishops but ouer all Chrâ—stian Kings also which loftynesse was neyâ—her in thée nor in thy predecessours and that thou doost make most manifest not onely by these playne speaches here vttered but elsewhere also k In hiâ— 38. Epistle Chap. 82. with which we restfully satisfied herein And so we will conclude this first part with a few words taken froÌ„ our late Minister but now an Aposâ—ata Theophilus Higgons * Written since hiâ— reâ—oâ—t in his first Motiue Page 64. because they coÌ„taine a truth touching this poynt contrary to himself as thus It was a tyranny in Mezentius sayth he to bynd liuing men vnto dead carkeyses But the wisdome of God doth assure me and me also that he will not tye the lyuing body of his Church vnto the dead and putrified members thereof The end of the first part The second part treating of the Sacrament of the Blessed Body and Blood of our LORD and Sauiour Iesus Christ NOw diuine Augustine let vs go forward in that principall poynt touching the holy Sacrament let vs certaynely know thy mind whether Christ be there after a spirituall maner onely for the faithfull to eate and drinke or after a corporal and carnall maner as foode both for the worthy and vnworthy receyuer We find in holy Scripture that our Sauiour called l Iohn 6. 35. and 10. 7. and 15. 1. himselfe Bread called himselfe a Doore called himselfe a Vine These things in a spiritual sence we know to be truely and properly spoken yet according to the letter we take them figuratiuely to be spoken But wée would gladly vnderstand from thée what our Sauiour meant when he called Bread his body m Mat. 26. 26. and also what he meant when he sayd Exceptye eate n Iohn 〈…〉 the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood ye haue no life in you c. Whether these speaches according to the letter were figuratiue or proper Aug. My sonne Our Lord doubted not to say This is my body o Against Adamantus Chap. 12 when he gaue the signe of his Body c. p Vpon the 3. Psal Christ admitted Iudas to that Banket in which he did deliuer to his disciples the figure of his Body c. Note this also If it be a speach of commaundement eyther forbidding a mischieuous deed or a hainous fact q In his â— Booke of Christian doctrine Chap. 16. or commaunding a profitable thing or a good deed it is not figuratiue But if it seeme to coÌ„maund a wicked deed and a naughty fact or to forbid a profitable thing or a good deed it is figuratiue Vnlesse ye shall eate sayth he the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood ye shall not haue life in you c. He doth seeme to commaund a hainous or wicked deed It is a figure therefore commaunding vs to communicate with the passion of our Lord and sweetely and profitably to lay vp in memory that his flesh was crucifyed and wounded for vs c. r Vpon the 98. Psalm The words which I haue spoken vnto you sayth Christ is spirit and life s Iohn 6. 63. Vnderstand spiritually that which I haue spoken vnto you Ye shall not eate this Body which ye see neyther shall ye drinke that blood which they shall sheade that crucify me I haue commended vnto you a certayne Sacrament which being spiritually vnderstood shall giue you life c. t â—n his 2â— â—reatiâ— vpon
S. Iohn He himselfe doth expound how that may be done which he spake of what it is to eate his Body and drinke his blood He which eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood sayth he dwelleth in me u Iohn 6. 56. Iâ—n him This it is then to eate that meate and drinke that blood to dwell in Christ and to haue Christ dwelling in him And by this he that dwelleth not in Christ and in whom Christ doth not dwell without doubt hee neither eates his flesh nor drinkes his blood spiritually although carnally and visibly hee presse with his teeth the Sacrament of his body and blood but rather hee doth eate and drinke the Sacrament of so great a thing to his owne Iudgement because hee presumes to come vncleane to the Sacraments of Christ which no man receyues worthily but hee which is cleane of whom it is sayd x Mat. â— 8. Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God c. Lay. Then it séemes by thée contrary to the doctrine of the Church of Rome that the presence of Christ in the Sacrament is in such a spirituall maner that although the wicked may eate and drinke the same Sacrament vnworthily according to S. Paul y 1. Cor. 11. 27. yet they cannot by any meanes eate and drinke Christ himselfe the matter and substance thereof Whereby thou doost declare this thing to be an vnspeakeable mystery onely for the faithfull to vnderstand for it séemes here also by thée that none can receiue the Body of Christ but onely the liuely members of Christ that dwell in him so that as they dwell in Christ Christ dwelleth in them but this is not according to Transsubstantiation Therefore to satisfie our weake brethren speake yet more playne if thou canst reuerend Father and tell vs by some familiar example whether any can haue true life not eating and drinking that holy substance and also whether there bée any cause or spiritual sicknesse in man eating and drinking the Body and Blood of Christ to exclude him from that eternall life Aug. My sonne r In his â—6 Treatis vpon S. Iohn He hath not that life which doth not eate that Bread and drinke that Blood Indeed men may haue a temporall life without that but not at all the eternall He therefore which doth not eate his flesh nor drinke his blood hath not life in himselfe and he which eateth his flesh and drinketh his blood hath life He answereth to both because he sayd eternall It is not so in that meate which we receyue for the sustayning of this temporall life for he which shal not receyue it shall not liue yet for all that he shall not liue alwayes which doth receyue it for it may come to passe that many which haue taken that meate may dye by old age or by a disease or by some other cause But in this meate and drinke that is to say the Body and Blood of our Lord it is not so for both he which doth not receiue it hath not life and he which doth receyue it hath life and this likewise eternall Therefore he would haue this bread and drinke to be vnderstood the society of the body and his members a Iohn 14. 20. and 17. 21 22 23. which is the holy Church his Saints and faythfull c. The Sacrament of this thing that is to say of the vnity of the Body Blood of Christ is prepared on the Lords Table in some place dayly in some place at certayne times and is receyued from the Lords Table vnto some to life vnto some to destruction But the thing it selfe to which the Sacrament doth belong is to euery man to life to no man to destruction whosoeuer shall be partaker of it c. Lay. Here thou art most playne indéed that the wicked cannot eate and drinke Christ Iesus the Bread of life And by this also we finde that thou doost acknowledge according to S. Paul b 1. Cor. 10. 3 4 that the faithful Iewes did eate and drinke the same spirituall substance which we do but in their SacrameÌ„ts Christ to come in ours Christ is come the same spirituall vertue in both otherwise as thou doost affirme they could not haue entred into eternall life Aug. True my sonne c In his Booke of the profit of repentance Chap. 1. Whosoeuer in Manna vnderstood Christ did eate the same spirituall food which we do c. To the beleeuer it was neyther this nor that meate and drinke which belongs to the hungry and thirsty but to the beleeuer the same which is now for then Christ to come now Christ is come to come and is come are diuers words yet the same Christ c. Lay. What other difference is there betwéene their Sacramenâ—s and ours besides Christ to come and Christ is come Aug. d In his 26. Tâ—eatis vpon S. Iohn In signes they are diuers but in the thing signifyed they are alike c. They did all drinke the same spirituall drinke but in the visible appearance they one thing we another but the same in spirituall vertue which that signifyed c. Hold firmely my sonne and make no doubt thereof e In his Booke to Peter the Deacon Chap. 18. 19. the same onely begotten Sonne the word made flesh to haue offered himselfe for vs a sweete smelling sauour to God f Ephe. 5. 2 A sacrifice and Hoste to whom with the Father and the holy Ghost beasts were sacrificed in the time of the old Testament by the Patriarks Prophets Priests and to whom now that is in the time of the new Testament with the Father and the holy Ghost with whom he is equall in diuinity the holy Catholike Church through the vniuersall world ceaseth not in fayth and loue to offer the sacrifice of Bread and wyne for in those carnall oblations there was a figuration of the flesh of Christ which for our sinnes he without sinne was to offer and of the Blood which he was to sheade for the remission of our sinnes But in this sacrifice there is a thankes-giuing and also a remembrance of the flesh of Christ which he did offer for vs and of the blood which the same God did shead for vs c. g In his 20 Booke against 〈◊〉 Chap. 2â— Before the comming of Christ the flesh and blood of this Sacrifice was promised by oblations of similitudes in the Passion of Christ it was deliuered in the trueth it selfe After the Ascension of Christ it is celebrated by a Sacrament of remembrance c. Lay. We note here from thée one thing well worth the nothing against our aduersaries that is if Christ be really contayned in the Sacrifice of their Masse then Christ the second person in Trinity is offered to himselfe the second person in Trinity But we assure our selues that it cannot stand with thy grauity to allow of such absurdity Thou doost here call this 〈◊〉 The sacrifice of Bread
Christ can not haue condeÌ„ned members c. Who then can poynt to those that can not erre Although both good and euill i In his booke of the vnity of the Church chap. 18. may giue and receyue the Sacrament of Baptisme yet not any are spiritually regenerated built together in the body and members of Christ but the good Doubtlesse in the good is that Church by whom it is sayd k Canti Cap. â— 2. Like a Lilly among the thornes so is my Loue among the daughters c. For it is in those that build vpon the Rocke that is those which heare the words of Christ and doe them for it was sayd to Peter l Mat. 16. 18. confâ—ssing Christ the Sonne of God And vpon this Rocke I will build my Church It is not then in thâ—se which build vpon sand that is those which heare the words of Christ and do them not for he sayth m Mat. 7. 24. He that heareth my words and doeth the same I will liken him to a wise man which builds his housâ— vpon a rocke And in the same place a little aâ—tâ—r he sayth He which heareth my words and doeth them not I will liken him to a foolish man which builds his house vpon sand c. Those then that are incorporated by the ioyning of charity dwelling vpon the Rocke and standing together bright as a Lilly among thornes they shall verily possâ—sse the kingdome of God But those which buyld vpon â—and or are accounted as thornes who can doubt that they shall not possesse the Kingdome of GOD Truely the Sacrament of Baptiâ—me profits not such c. They shal not possesse the kingdome of God and therefore they are noâ— on the Rocke and because they are not on the Rock without all doubt they are not to bee accounted in the Church because vpon this Rocke sayth he I will build my Church c. Lay. To those that are not wilfully obstinate in erronious opinions thou hast sayd inough for this matter most reuerend Father for here thou dost most plainly declare vnto vs who they are of whome the true Church the Spouse of Christ coÌ„sisteth euen those that heare the words of Christ and do them they onely build vpoÌ„ the Rock against which hel gates cannot preuavlâ— for as thou dost most truely affirme whosoeuer builds not vpon that Rock without al doubt they are not to be accounted in the true Church because vpon the same Rocke that Church is built But what is thy opinion touching Peter and Peters successours in Peters chayre which in the new Law as some say is answerable to the chayre of Moses If they heare the words of Christ and do them not shall they yet notwithstanding be obeyed as men that cannot erre Aug. My sonne n In his 〈◊〉 Sermon vpon S. Mat. This name that he should be called Peter was giuen him of our Lord because by that figure he might signifie the Church for Christ is the Rocke Peter the Christian people for that Rocke is a principall name Therefore he is Peter from the Rocke not the Rocke from Peter euen as Christ is not called from a Christian but a Christian from Christ Thou art therefore Peter sayth he and vpon this Rocke which thou hast confessed vpon this Rocke which thou hast acknowledged saying Thou art Christ the Sonne of the liuing God I will build my Church that is vpon my selfe the Sonne of the liuing God I will buyld my Church vpon mee I will buyld thee not mee vpon thee for men willing to be built vpon men say I verily am of Paul but I belong to Apollos but I am of Cephas which is Peter But others which would not build vpon Peter but vpon the Rocke say But I am of Christ c. 1 Cor. 1. 12. Many in the Church follow after earthly businesses o In his 46. Treatis vpon S. Iohn yet they preach Christ and by them the voice of Christ is heard but the sheep follow not the hirelings but the voyce of the Shepherd by meanes of the hirelings Note the Lord himselfe doth declare vnto you what hirelings are p Mat. 23. 2 3. The Scribes and the Pharises sayth he sit in the chayre of Moses what they say do but what they do that do not What other thing sayd he but By hirelings heare the voice of the Shepherd for fitting in Moses chayre they teach the Law of God therefore God teacheth by them But if they teach their owne neyther heare nor do what they say for truely such seeke their owne not those things which are of Iesus Christ c. Lay. It séemes then by thy iudgement that we must not build vpon men of what calling or place soeuer vnlesse what they teach be agréeable to the Law of God and herein indéed thou doost follow the good counsell and aduice of blessed Paul who sayth plainely touching the visible Church q Gala. 1. 8. Though that we or an Angell froÌ„ heauen preach vnto you otherwise then that which we haue preached vnto you let him be accursed c. And thereby proues inuincibly that no doctrine is to be receyued in the Church although constituted by the Church contrary and besides that pure doctrine taught from the beginning And the same thing doth S. Iohn proue also r 1. Iohn â— 24. â— 1. and therefore our aduersaries of Rome would gladly proue some of their owne doctrines to be the traditions of the Church receyued first from the Apostles themselues and vainely they boast as a great matter against vs that we are not able directly to shew the time when the Church of Rome fell into any Error nor by whom shée was first brought into errour But all this is but vaine cauelling for the deuill hath not so little craft in him as to change good to euill suddenly for then the euil could hardly take place but by little and little which craft by a great nuÌ„ber is little or nothing perceyued at the first he brings much euill into the Church By continuance of time the often droppes of water haue made a hole in the hardest stone but none could tell the time directly when that hole was made It is sufficient to proue the Church of Rome to teach now contrary to the doctrine taught in the same Church aboue a thousand yeres since which thing is easie to be proued by the helpe of thée and other ancient witnesses They séeme also to make good and lawfull their owne Doctrines and Traditions besides the Scriptures by that place in the Gospell where our Sauiour sayth to his Disciples s Iohn 16. 12 13. I haue yet many things to say to you but ye can not beare them now howbeit when he is come which is the Spirit of Truth he shall lead you into all trueth c. But what sayest thou ancient Augustine to this delusion of theirs Aug. My sonne t In his 97. Treatis vpon S. Iohn
A Profitable Dialogue for a peruerted Papist OR A little Labour of a Lay man tending to the profit of a peruerted Papist namely by laying open vnto him his owne errour in beleeuing that the Church of Rome cannot erre Composed in Dialogue maner as it were betweene a simple Lay man and certayne graue Diuines and published onely for the benefit of the Lay Papist Written by R. M. Gent. and Student in Diuinity Brethren be not children in vnderstanding 1. Cor. 14. 20. If God be on our side who can be against vs Rom. 8. 31. Seeke and ye shall finde Math. 7. 7. LONDON Printed by Simon Stafford dwelling in the Cloth-fayre neere the signe of the red Lion 1609. The Contents of this Booke THis small Treatise is diuided into two parts 1 THe first part contaynes certayne proofs froÌ„ Antiquity that it is onely the society of the faithfull the holy Catholike Church that can not finally erre and that the visible Church of Rome or where else soeuer may erre And therefore not lawfull for any one Bishop on earth to be admitted vniuersall Bishop or supreme head of the vniuersall Church 2 THe second part confirmes the former proofes by manifest proofes also from Antiquity that the visible Church of Rome doth erre in a principall poynt of Christian doctrine as namely touching the Sacrament of the blessed Body and Blood of our Lord and Sauiour Iesus Christ The Authour to the learned Reader GOod Reader my selfe being a Lay man and altogether vnskilfull in Artes I am therefore to entreat of thee being a scholer that thou wilt not so much regard the maner and forme of this my weake worke as the matter and substance it selfe which is no other thing in effect but certaine manifest proofes from Antiquity that the Church of Rome doth erre proued by such ancient witnesses as the Papists themselues allow for lawfull and so forcible are those witnesses against those Romish aduersaries that if hereafter any of them shall go about to reply against this Treatise ensuing they shall but thereby the more lay open their owne follies and shame in striuing against the inuincible streame for great is the Trueth and it will preuayle yea what can more confound the learned aduersary or as S. Paul sayth * Tit. â— 10. 11. condemne him to erre in his owne iudgement then to find himselfe altogether vnable without absurd cauelling and vndirect dealing to resist the weakenesse of a simple Lay man fighting in Trueths behalfe for notwithstanding my Sixe demaunds to the learned Papists be the simplest booke that euer hitherto hath bene brought foorth against them yet are they not able to reply directly against it without absurdity WhereupoÌ„ I doubt they will seeme to skorne to vouchsafe it an answere But here by the way I acknowledge and that sincerely that it is vnmeete for any Lay man although neuer so great a scholer to take to himselfe the office of ministery in the Church or to clime vp to the Pulpit before he be lawfully called to that holy and reuerend function But for Lay men decently to instruct and admonish one another it is no nouelty but a thing allowable in the Church many yeeres since as witnesseth S. Hierome who sayth playnely * Vpon the Epâ—stle to the Colo. Chap. 3. that the Apostle Paul doth teach that Lay men ought to haue the Scriptures abundantly and to instruct and admonish one another c. But if it be tolerable for Lay men to admonish one another it followes then because all are not scholers that some of them may be also tolerated to write simply and playnely and according to that maner of speach which the common vulgar sort do vsually speake who neuer speake more eloquently then when they speake trueth sincerely and playnely and then they thinke they speake very well if they be vnderstood very well But perhaps some learned Aduersary will obiect according to his vsuall maner against these proofes which I haue here cited from some of the ancient Fathers liuing in the Church aboue a thousand yeeres since that they haue bene brought forth already by diuers learned men long since answered by learned men also therfore in vaine for me being a Lay man vnlearned to cite them againe thinking that I haue but gathered them here and there out of other mens workes where they haue bene collected before and for that cause likewise from me the lesse to be regarded These things being obiected I answere True it is that the same proofes haue long since bene brought forth against the Aduersaries by theÌ„ also answered but how well or how ill they haue bin answered let that be tryed by those Christians which are of souÌ„d iudgement for this I daâ—e auouch that a lawfull witnesse being brought against any maÌ„ it is no lesse then an absurd answer in that man whosoeuer to reply that the same witnesse in speaking of one thing doth thereby meane another But into the same strayte are all Heretiks brought by resisting the apparaÌ„t truth And this is a principall marke to be aymed at in this our corrupt age in which there is so much dissension and controuersie among professed Christians For if our aduersaries might be permitted to answere so absurdly and to passe from one poynt to another before some one poynt onely be throughly decided all the labour wee take to cleanse them from their infectious spots of errour would proue but labour in vayne but God be thanked the faithfull know well how to preuent the silly shiftes of Heretikes and so with little labour eyther to conuert them or confound them for commonly the Heretike may be condemned by his owne mouth his doctrine contradicting some trueth in Scripture which himselfe professeth to beleeue for where traditions and customes of men are regarded before holy Scripture there ignorance doth soone beget errour especially if diuers things called by one name be not so perfectly distinguished but that the one may be taken for the other But let the ignorant learne first touching faith A true faith which worketh by loue is one thing and a verball or vaine faith another Secondly touching iustification A iustification before God is one thing and a iustification before men another for God iustifieth according to the inward heart by the good tree true faith but man iustifieth according to the outward declaration by the fruits proceeding froÌ„ that tree * Luke 6. 43. good workes S. Paul treating of the first iustification denyes not the second for he sayth If Abraham were iustified by workes he hath wherein to reioyce but not with God c. γ Rom. 4. S. Iames treating of the second denyes not the first for he graunts Abraham beleeuing God it was imputed vnto him for righteousnesse c γ Iames. 2. Thirdly touching the Church The society of the faithfull which liue by true faith and therefore hell gates not possible to preuayle against them is one thing and a
visible congregation which may professe Christ by words and deny him by deeds another Fourthly touching Baptisme the outward Sacrament the washing of the outward man is one thing and the inward grace the clensing of the inward man another Fiftly touching the Eucharist The outward Sacrament also foode for the Body is one thing and the inward matter euerlasting life for the soule another and so foorth in the like Now the faithfull knowing well the differences in these things and that the one may be oftentimes taken without the other will neuer permit the aduersary to passe away vncorrected with any vntrueth therein be it neuer so little because from one error another may ensue but not possible directly an errour to proceede from trueth for Gods word is not both Yea and Nay in one thing but absolutely Yea or Nay as S. Paul testifieth γ 2. Cor. 1. As touching the maner of my collecting hereof I may iustly auouch it from the first authors themselues but admit it were otherwise yet let no man be so vayne as to thinke the trueth to be of lesse force in one place then in another but let him rather learne this wisdome from S. Paul that although Paul or Apollos or whosoeuer plant and water yet it is God onely that giues the blessing of increase * 1. Cor. 3. 6 7. And because God may giue that heauenly blessing to whom he will and without respect of persons γ Ephe. 6. 9. in hope of the same blessing vpon this my little labour rude and harsh in maner and forme though in substance according to trueth I will now require no more of thee courteous Reader but that thou wilt permit it thy fauourable pasport and not to reiect the maner of it more then to respect the matter in it in so doing thou shalt declare thy selfe a most faithfull friend to the simple Trueth and thereby not iustly to offend any whosoeuer Vale. A profitable Dialogue for a peruerted Papist Wherein he may clearely discerne his owne error in beleeuing that the Church of Rome cannot erre The first part briefly treating of the Church Lay man DIuine Augustine forasmuch as thy proper workes are of great fame estimation in the Church of Rome which now in part is fallen from that her first faith and integrity which sometime thou didst know her sincerely to hold for she doth now presumptuously auouch that she can not erre in any substantiall poynt of the Christian faith and by reason of that vaine and presumptuous opinion she is fallen by euill custome into diuers errours by which great controuersies among Christians do arise therefore in the behalfe of many simple Lay people we most earnestly craue of thée Reuerend Father to tell vs directly thy true opinion touching the vayne opinion of them which hold that the same Church cannot erre We certaynely perswade our selues that thy direct answeres herein will greatly preuayle with those our aduersaries for some of them haue written a N. D. Author of the Wardword in his 1. booke of of the ◠conuersions of England Chap. 3. as a matter of great moment against Heretiks that Wheresoeuer any doctrine is found in any of the Ancient Fathers which is not contradicted nor noted by any of the rest as singular that doctrine is to be presumed to be no particular opinion of his but rather the generall of all the Church in his dayes for that otherwise it would most certaynly haue bin noted and impugned by others c. Therefore whatsoeuer is spoken by thée learned Aug. not yet contradicted they must thereby graunt it to be the Trueth of the Church in thy flourishing dayes We confesse that the true holy Catholike Church cannot finally erre for hell gates are not able to preuayle against it b Mat. 16. 18. but this holy Catholike Church we vnderstand to consist onely of the Elect as our Créede witnesseth euen the Communion of Saynts which without spot or wrinkle Christ by his precious bloud hath made glorious to himselfe c Ephe. ◠27. for against all other hell gates doe preuayle and that doeth the Euangelist S. Iohn witnesse saying d 1. Iohn ◠19. They went out from vs but they were not of vs for if they had bene of vs they would haue continued with vs But this cōmeth to passe that it might appeare that they are not all of vs c. But it is euident that against whosoeuer hell gates may preuayle they also may erre for it is most true that none can erre more then those that take the ready way to hell supposing they goe to heauen By which we may well hold against the Church of Rome that not all which receyue the outward Sacrament of Baptisme are then made members of that Church which cannot finally erre And by this wée may well proue also that the Bishop of Rome may as much erre as the meanest of vs Laymen Saint Ambrose sayth c Vpon S. Luk◠the 6. Booke 9. Chap. that The foundation of the Church is sayth If thou wilt be a Rock sayth he thou shalt be in the Church because the Church is vpon a Rock if thou be in the Church the gates of hell shall not preuayle against thee the gates of hell are the gates of death but the gates of hell cannot be the gates of the Church And what are the gates of death that is to say the gates of hell but euery one of our seuerall sinnes c. And more in an other place f Vpon the 40. Psalm Where Peter the Rock is saith he there is the Church where the Church is there is no death but eternal life and therefore he added And the gates of hell shall not preuayle against it He then that liues and dyes in his sinnes both liues and dyes out of the vnity of that holy Church against which hell gates can not preuayle But for these things speake diuine Augustine Aug. My sonne g Against Cresconius the 2 booke Chap. 21 22. The Apostle Paul doth say h Ephe. ◠2. that the Church is made subiect to Christ The Church therefore ought not to preferre her self before Christ that she should thinke to be able to baptize those which are iudged or condemned by him but not possible of her selfe to baptize them because he alwayes iudgeth truely but the Iudges of the Church as being men are often deceyued Therefore forasmuch as pertayneth to the visible ministery both good and euill baptize But by them he doth inuisibly baptize of whom both the visible baptisme and the inuisible grace is Both good and euill then may sprinkle but to wash the conscience not any can do it but he which is alwayes good * None but God alwaies good And by this also by reason of the euill and polluted conscience the Church is ignorant of such as are condemned by Christ They are not thē in the Body of Christ which is the Church because
forme c. Compare the signe with the trueth thou shalt vnderstand the similitude for the figure ought to be like the trueth for truely that body hath the first forme and figure and circumscription and that I may say at once the substance of a body but it was made immortall after the resurrection c. Lay. Most true it is graue Father Christ hath still the true substance of a Body and therefore the signe and the thing signified being alike those Heretickes whosoeuer they be that séeme to proue the forme of Bread in the Sacrament to be there without the substance of Bread do thereby séeme to proue also Christ to a haue a fantasticall Body that is a Body in shew without the substance of a body But thou doost here most playnely confute that palpable absurdity therein thou art agréeable to the true doctrine of the Primitiue Church for what Christian liuing a thousand yeres since or vpwards did euer affirme such a reall presence in the Sacrament that thereby Christ God and man is to be swallowed into the bodyes of many damned creatures We find many proofes from Antiquity to the contrary as partly hath bene noted already and yet for more witnesse thereof we note S. Ambrose also who sayth playnely touching this sacred Bread euen Christ himselfe that it is not bread which goeth into the body h In his â— Booke of Sacraments Chap. 4. but the Bread of eternall life which strengthneth the substance of our soules c. He sayth not as some peruersly misconster him Non transiâ—e in corpus per nutritionem i Bellarm. vpon the Eucharist the 2. Booke 14. Chap. it passeth not through the body by nourishment but Non vadit in corpus it goeth not into the body c. Who then can mistake him here but he that wilfully makes himselfe ignorant euen he which by such vndirect dealing peruerts thy words also saying k Bellarm. in the same Booke Chap. 27. Where thou doost affirme the Bread and wine to remayne after sanctification both in substance nature figure and forme as they were before thou doost thereby meane onely the sensible accidents and visible formes do so remayne but the substance to be changed But if such weake defending of errours be allowed for good and lawfull in vayne then it is to bring any testimony from antiquity against Heretikes But we hope that such peruerse answeres from the peruerter may proue in good time a good motiue for the peruerted to looke about him betimes and not both to liue and dye a childe in vnderstanding for ignorance cannot excuse those that wilfully refuse to walke by the light of holy Scripture The word of God is a lanterne vnto my feete and a light vnto my paths saith the Prophet Dauid * Psalm 119. It is as a light shining in a dark place sayth S. Peter * 2. Pet. 1. By which we are giuen to vnderstand that as the Sunne giues light to the corporall eye so doth the holy Scripture giue light to the spirituall eye Whereupon it followes that if neyther our aduersaryes nor our selues would wilfully become blind and then trust to the leading of others we should soone all agrée in one outward profession for who is he that can beleeue contrary to that which he séeeth or where is that spirituall man so contentious as not to allow those Traditions and customes of the Church which are not contrary to the expresse word of God We grant from the Sacrament according to that trueth which we finde in holy Scripture * Iohn 6. 63. the true eating drinking of the flesh and blood of Christ spiritually we say word for word as Saint Basil said aboue a thousand yeeres since l In his 141. Epistle We eate his flesh and drinke his blood being made partakers of him by incarnation and sensible life of the word and wisdome for he called all his mysticall conuersation in the flesh flesh and blood and made manifest that doctrine which depends of his life actuall naturall and diuine by which the soule is nourished exercised and trayned vp to the contemplation of heauenly things c. but we deny such a grosse eating and drinking therein that thereby both the righteous and the vnrighteous are made partakers of Christ which doctrine is most manifest against the sacred Scripture m 1. Cor. 10. 21. we deny also such a grosse eating drinking therein that thereby Lay people must not communicate with the blessed cup of our Lord fearing lest they should shead his prectous blood vpon their garments or lest by the weakenesse of their stomackes they should bring vp againe their Creator by belchings and vomitings which absurdity the Church hath long since confuted as witnesseth S. Aug. n Against Faustus the 20 Booke and Chap. 13. for indéed according to the doctrine of her head Christ Iesus so doth the true Church teach alwayes But neuer did the true Church teach that our Sauiour Christ hath any reall being in the body of a wicked creature for Christ himselfe is most playne against that vayne doctrine And briefly to proue that to be true we will now set aside all other witnesses and proofes whatsoeuer and humbly beséech the author of this blessed Sacrament euen Iesus Christ himselfe to resolue vs herein Speake holy Lambe of God thou that art the onely Sauiour of the world speake so we most humbly beséech thée that thy words herein may proue a swéete sauour of life to the small remnant of thy holy Church in this corrupt age Teach vs swéete Lord whether any can haue true life without eating and drinking that blessed flesh and blood of thine and also whether any can misse of that true life eating and drinking the same blessed foode Christ My sonne o Iohn 6. 48. to 36. I am that Bread of life your fathers did eate Manna in the wildernesse and are dead This is that bread which came downe from heauen that he which eateth of it should not dye I am that liuing bread which came downe from heauen If any man eate of this bread he shall liue for euer and the bread that I will giue is my flesh which I will giue for the life of the world c. Verily verily I say vnto you except ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood ye haue no life in you Whosoeuer eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternall life and I will rayse him vp at the last day for my flesh is meate indeed and my blood is drinke indeed Lay. My Lord and God these words of thine are profound and to the spirituall man spirit and life although to the carnall man farre otherwise for notwithstanding thou hast commaunded vs all not to adde any thing to thy sacred word p Deut. 〈◊〉 2 and 12. 32. 〈◊〉 22. 18. yet these carnall-minded men can not vnderstand these thy comfortable speeches