it is bread saith he but after consecration of bread it is made the flesh of Christ. And againe before the words of Christ be vttered in the consecration the Chalice is full of Wine and Water but when the words of Christ haue wrought their effect there is made the bloud that redeemed the People I. D. Whether those bookes of the Sacraments here cited by you vnder the name of Ambrose be his or no is not agreed vpon by all Possevine the Iesuite affirming that all almost together with Cardinal Bellarmine hold them to be legitimate plainely insinuates by the word almost that some are of another minde Their reasons are first because the stile much differeth from that of Ambrose his being cleare perspicuous florid and elaborate this oftentimes negligent harsh rude savouring of Monkish barbarisme Secondly because no writer before Lanfrank Guitmund who liued six hundred yeares after Ambrose quote them which were strange if they be his especially considering the matter of these bookes and how commonly the rest of his writings were alleaged Lastly because repeating the Lords Prayer hee deliuereth the sixt Petition in these words And suffer vs not to bee led into temptation whereas the words of Christ are And lead vs not into temptation which it is not to bee thought that S. Ambrose either was ignorant of or meant to amend As touching the other booke de Imitandis you should say de mysterijs initiandis the same iudgement haue they as of the former But if you will let them bee Saint Ambroses For I meane not to be peremptory herein What would you conclude out of him That hee denies it expresly to bee bread after consecration Certainely in expresse tearmes he doth not All he saith is that after consecration bread is made flesh and wine bloud out of which it followeth not that it ceaseth to be bread and wine for S. Ambrose himselfe affirmeth that this notwithstāding they still remaine what they were If saith he there bee so great power in the word of the Lord Iesus that they should beginne to bee that which they were not how much more effectuall is it that they be what they were yet be changed into another thing But how may this be will you say that it should remaine bread and yet be made flesh Let S. Chrysostome resolue you The grace of God saith he sanctifying the bread it is freed from the name of bread and counted worthy of the name of the Lords body Yea and S. Ambrose himselfe also The Lord Iesus himselfe saith he cryeth this is my body Before the blessing of the heauenly words it is named another kinde after consecration the body of Christ is signified He saith his Bloud Before consecration it is called another thing after consecration it is called bloud Where by the way I cannot but marvel at the fore-head of your Cardinall Bellarmine who vouching this place changeth that clause the body of Christ is signified into this it is the body of Christ. Happily he did not brooke the word signifie because it cleareth this point of the Real Presence more then willingly he would But hereby it is evident how bread may be made flesh and yet still remaine bread namely because it is made so only typically and in a signifying mystery N. N. Whereas Christ hath said of the Bread This is my Body who will dare to doubt thereof And whereas hee hath said of the Wine This is my Bloud who will doubt or say it is not his Bloud He once turned Water into Wine in Cana of Galilee by his owne will which Wine is like vnto Bloud And shall we not thinke him worthy to bee beleeued when he saith he hath changed Wine into his Blood Our Lord Iesus Christ doth testifie vnto vs that we receiued his Body and Bloud and may we doubt of his credit or testimonie Those things that are written let vs read and what we read let vs vnderstand so shall we perfectly performe the duty of Faith for that these points which wee affirme of the naturall verity of Christs being in vs except we learne thē of Christ himselfe we affirme them wickedly and foolishly c. Wherefore whereas he saith My Flesh is truly Meat and my blood truly drinke there is no place left to vs of doubting concerning the truth of Christs body and blood for that both by the affirmation of Christ himselfe and our owne beleefe there is in the Sacrament the flesh truly and the blood truly of our Saviour Eusebius bringeth in Christ our Saviour speaking in these words For so much as my flesh is truly meat and my Blood truly drinke let all doubtfulnesse of infidelity depart for so much as he who is the author of the gift is witnesse also of the truth thereof And Saint Leo to the same effect Nothing at all is to be doubted of the truth of Christs Body and Blood in the Sacrament and those doe in vaine answere Amen when they receaue it if they dispute against that which is affirmed And finally St Epiphanius concludeth thus Hee that beleeueth it not to bee the very Body of Christ in the Sacrament is fallen from grace and Salvation I. D. Your Argument Christ saith This is my Body This is my Blood True no man denieth it The Fathers say He is worthy to be beleeued and wee may not doubt of his testimonie True also and he is an infidel whosoever questioneth any thing he saith What then Ergo by the judgement of the Fathers the flesh of Christ is Really and by way of Transubstantiation present in the Sacrament It followeth not For Christ saith not so and his Flesh without Transubstantiation may be present Sacramentally and Spiritually Saint Paul expresly saith The rocke was Christ and he is worthy to be beleeued neither may wee doubt of his credit Yet I hope you will not inferre thereupon Ergo in S. Pauls iudgement the Rocke was transubstantiated into Christ. No more can you conclude the like Change out of Christs words for the case is exactly the same In a word to argue from the Thing to the Manner It is Ergo it is so or so is meerely ridiculous With this generall answere might I at once quit all your authorities but to three of them I haue somewhat more to say in particular Christ saith Cyril hath said of the bread This is my Body and who will dare to doubt thereof Verily no true beleever Yet Papists dare For that Bread should bee Christs Body tropically figuratiuely they iest flout at and that it should be so literally and properly they flatly deny It is impossible saith your law that Bread should be the Body of Christ. And Bellarmine which sentence this is my body either must be vnderstood tropically that bread is the body of Christ significatiuely or it is altogether absurd and impossible for it cannot be that bread should
with more patience then he But this in no case may be imagined His 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his feare and consternation his strong cries his agonie and bloudy sweat his earnest prayer that if it were possible the cuppe might passe from him and that lamentable expostulation my God my God why hast thou forsaken me doe all mainely argue that his pangs were high strained and extraordinary For although he were not forsaken of his Father either by breach of personall vnion or losse of vnction or diminution of grace or despaire of protection and deliuerance yet he was abandond and â—eft destitute of all present comfort so that his sorrowes could not but bee aboue all other sorrowes And indeed how could it bee otherwise For not to speake of the paines of the body which yet some affirme to be more intense then could be of other men by reason of the perfection and finenesse of his complection his sorrowes were not for the sinnes of one man but of the whole world which could be no lesse then a world of sorrow And if his loue to vs were so infinite that he was content to suffer all these extremities for vs his sorrow for the miseries wee were in could be no lesse but must every way bee answerable vnto his loue So must it vnto his wisdome also for by it perfectly knowing and apprehending all the causes and reasons of sorrow it cannot be avoided but that according to this knowledge apprehension his sorrowes should be strained and intended The last point is the Duration of his paines or how long he suffered them They were not eternell nor might continue vpon him for ever Had they so continued hee had never conquered death nor hell and hauing not freed himselfe from them how could hee set vs free They continued therefore vpon him but that houre the time destined by his Father therevnto which being once expired all his paines and sorrowes ceased together therewith Here it will surely be obiected the punishment due vnto sinne is an eternall punishment If then the sufferings of Christ were only temporarie and not eternall how hath he suffered and satisfied sufficiently for sinne For time holdeth no proportion with eternity Wherevnto I answer first that in regard of the dignity of his person the shortest punishment inflicted vpon him is equivalent to the eternall punishment laid vpon others For hee is not a meere man but God and man And as there is not betweene time and eternity so neither is there betweene God and meere man any proportion at all I answere secondly that eternall punishment is due only to an eternall sinne not to that which is interrupted and broken off by grace Sinne though the act thereof bee transient yet it leaueth such a staine vpon the soule as continueth in it evermore if by mercy it be not blotted out and evermore disposeth vnto sinne Now he that is so disposed sinneth in suo aeterno and hauing as much as lies in him a perpetuall purpose of sinning he shall as he deserues perpetually and everlastingly bee punished But they for whom Christ died haue their sinnes broken off by grace their soules by little and little cleansed from the staines of sin in his bloud a hatred and detestation of sinne wrought in them together with a sincere loue and study of holinesse vntill sinne be vtterly destroyed and abolished in them Christ therefore thus purposing to put a full end to all their sinnes reason would that an end 〈◊〉 should bee set vnto his sufferings and their sinnes not being eternall that neither his sufferings should bee eternall And thus much for the Duration of his Passion The vse of all may be this First seeing Christ hath suffered all these things and that for vs it is fit that we by all waies and meanes should study to come to the full knowledge thereof It was not for Angells and yet they earnestly desired to looke into this mistery Vs it concernes only and nothing more then it and can wee possibly neglect the learning of it The Apostle Saint Paul accounted the knowledge hereof to be of all other the most excellent and all other things in comparison of it to bee but losse and dung Wherevpon he protesteth that among the Corinthians he was resolved not to know any thing saue Christ Iesus and him crucified Why then should not wee bee of the same and pray with him that wee may be able to comprehend with all Saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height That knowing what great matters hee hath done for vs wee may be the more incited to bee thankefull vnto him for it Secondly seeing it pleased the Father thus to decree that his sonne should suffer all these things for the satisfaction of his iustice and that otherwise he would not be appeased for sinne we may thereby learne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 how precisely rigorous God is in the punishment of sinne together with the vilenesse and odiousnesse thereof The due consideration whereof would both terrifie vs from the committing of sinne and worke in our hearts a loathing detestation of sinne For if God will not be pacified without full satisfaction how dare we commit it And if nothing can cleanse the leprosie thereof but only the bloud of the sonne of God how can we but abhorre it Thirdly seeing he hath resolued to appease his wrath and to rest satisfied for sinne in the sufferings of his sonne wee may therein as in a crystall glasse clearly behold 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the great loue of God towards man It was not for the sinning Angells and their redemption that he gaue his sonne but for vs men and our salvation Rather then he would loose the whole race of mankind he would spare nothing no not his best beloued With whom although he were ever well pleased yet he must needs suffer for vs that in him he may be also well pleased with vs. Feare we not therefore nor despaire of grace Though our sinnes be never so many and greivous yet the sonne of God hath satisfied for them all Tender wee this payment vnto his Father and it cannot but be accepted But yet lastly seeing his sufferings were but a short time and so not intended for eternall sinnes but those only which were to haue an end it may giue vs a cave at to breake off our sinnes be time least being iustly cut off in them they proue eternall to vs and so we haue no benefit in the sufferings of Christ. For as the Apostle St Paule saith if obstinately and wilfully we resolue to sinne after we haue received the knowledge of the truth there remaineth no more sacrifice for sinnes For this is to tread vnder foot the Sonne of God to count the bloud of the Couenant wherewith we were sanctified an vnholy thing and to doe despite vnto the spirit of grace But of this second part the worke of the houre enough The third
waies First by his profession of conformitie and obedience to his Fathers will whereof wee haue already spoken sufficiently Wherein seeing he fayleth not and it is his Fathers will as we haue shewed that he should giue them eternall life vndoubtedly it is his will also Secondly by giuing himselfe for vs. For if then hee was content with the expence of his dearest blood to ransome vs whē we were his enimies how much more now is it his will pleasure to saue vs hauing of enimies made vs friends and begun the spirituall life in vs Thirdly by conioyning vs vnto himselfe in so straight a bond of vnion that we are of his bone and of his flesh For it may not bee imagined that he hateth his owne flesh but loueth all the members of his body so dearely thas as long as hee is able hee will surely preserue them aliue Fourthly by his mediatory intercession For as he prayed for Peter that his faith might not faile so he intended the same vnto all beleeuers as appeareth in the sequele of this prayer where he saith I pray for them also which shall beleeue in me through their word and requests his Father also to keepe them Which hee would never haue done but that he earnestly desired their preservation in life Fiftly by his care and desire that wee should every way be conformed to him that as he died and rose againe and from thenceforth dieth no more so wee should first dye to sinne and then liue to righteousnesse and afterward spiritually never dye more Lastly by sending vnto vs the holy Ghost to lead vs into all truth to comfort vs and to consecrate vs vnto him both Soules and Bodies FINIS A GODLIE DISCOVRSE OF SELFE-DENIALL OXFORD Printed by I. L. for E. F. 1633. LVKE 9.23 And he said to them all if any will come after me let him deny himselfe and take vp his crosse daily and follow me THese are the words of our blessed Lord Saviour Iesus Christ and they containe in them Counsell of singular importance given vnto all those that purpose to come after him Vpon what occasion it was giuen is not so fully recorded by our Evangelist S. Luke but what is defectiue in him is perfecty supplied by two other Evangelists S. Mathew and S. Marke by Saint Mathew in his sixteenth Chapter by S. Marke in his eighth It was this Our Saviour had signified vnto his Disciples not obscurely and darkly as at other times but in expresse and plaine tearmes that he was ere long to goe vp to Ierusalem and there to suffer many things of the Elders chiefe Priests and Scribes and at length to bee put to death by them Herevpon S. Peter being as the Fathers obserue of him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more hot and hastie then the rest of his fellowes presently takes his Master aside consulting only with flesh blood begins to schoole him Master pittie thy selfe this may not be vnto thee But Christ turning about and looking vpon his Disciples first in the hearing of them all sharply rebukes him Get thee behinde me Satan thou art a scandall vnto me for thou savourest not the things that be of God but those that are of men and then addressing his speech as my Text saith vnto them all he giueth them this wholsome and soueraigne Counsel If any of you be disposed to come after mee hee may not with Peter follow his owne carnall reason nor presume by his advise and counsel to guide and direct me nor finally must he timorously and fearefully shrugge and shrinke at the mention of the Crosse no hee must resolue to deny his owne selfe to take vp his Crosse daily and to follow me otherwise it is but in vaine to thinke of comming after me This was the occasion of the Counsell and this is the context and coherence of the words in this history In them it may please you further to obserue with me these three particulars First the Parties to whom the counsell is giuen secondly the forme of words wherein it is deliuered and lastly the counsell it selfe The Parties Hee said vnto them all the forme of words If any will let him the counsell Let him deny himselfe take vp his Crosse daily and follow me In the first yee haue the generalitie of the Counsell He said vnto them all in the second the Liberty of them that are counselled if any will let him in the last the conditionall necessitie of the counsell if any will come after me he must of necessity deny himselfe take vp his cross daily and follow me Of these in order as God shall assist and the time permit The Parties to whom the Counsell is giuen are All He said vnto them all What All All his Disciples as it seemeth by S. Mathew for saith he Then said Iesus vnto his Disciples But S. Mark further affirmeth that hee gaue it to the multitude also When saith hee hee had called the people vnto him together with his disciples hee said vnto them And these are St Lukes All all the Disciples all the People all the present auditory The present auditorie will some say Thē it concernes not vs who were none of that auditorie Yes vs as well as them for although Christ at that time spake only to them that were present yet the holy Evangelists haue written it for vs also Yea it is clear that our Saviour intended it vniversally vnto all men for that which Matthew and Luke deliver hypothetically and conditionally thus if any will come after me let him the same Saint Marke vttereth in a Categoricall and simple forme thus Whosoever will come after mee as if hee should say Every man without exception So that as our Saviour elsewhere said What I say vnto you I say vnto all Watch in like sort is hee to bee vnderstood here that what he spake vnto his auditorie then was generally meant vnto all mankinde if any whatsoever he bee will come after me he must deny himselfe take vp his crosse daily and follow me I haue seene an end of all perfection saith David in his hundred and nineteenth psalme but thy word is exceeding broad Broad as in sundry other respects so especially in this that it stretcheth and reacheth vnto all men There is no speech nor language saith the same David in the nineteenth Psalme where the voice of the Heavens is not heard their line is gone out throughout all the earth their words vnto the end of the world The Sunne which God hath placed therein goeth forth from the end of heauen and compasseth about vnto the ends of it and nothing is hid from the heat thereof This doth the Apostle Saint Paul in his tenth to the Romans apply vnto the word preached by the Apostles plainely implying that no man in the world of what condition soever is priviledged from the authority thereof When God first gaue the law vnto
for the Transformation of Bread into Flesh which he speakes of though still it seeme Bread it is plaine hee meanes not that of Transubstantiation for in this Bread ceaseth to be but in that he confesseth it still to remaine and that it is Bread which is eaten by vs in the Mysteries Which yet he more plainly expresseth where hee saith God in mercy condescending to our infirmity preserueth the Species or Nature of Bread and wine but trans-elementeth or changeth it into the vertue of his flesh blood where it is farther to be obserued that hee saith not into flesh and blood but into the vertue thereof intimating a Change not of Substance but of Operation and Efficacy Your next witnesse is Magnetes an author to me vtterly vnknowne saue that Gesner in his Bibliotheca reporteth that he was very ancient and that about thirteene hundred yeares since hee wrote in the Greeke tongue certaine bookes in defence of the Gospell vnto Theosthenes against the Gentiles that flandered it and that he is quoted by Fr. Turrian By which words it seemes that hee never yet saw the Presse and what is alledged out of him is warranted only by Turrians testimony But Turrian is one that deserues no credit at our hands as being a Iesuite and knowne to haue plaid many foule tricks this way Yet if to make your author agree with the rest of the Fathers you will giue the same construction to his words that aboue is giuen vnto Theophilact you may Otherwise his authority is as easily reiected as alledged N. N. St Hilary vseth this kind of argument If the word of God were truly made flesh then doe wee truly receiue his flesh in the Lords supper and thereby he is to bee esteemed to dwell in vs naturally St Cyril proueth not only a Spirituall but also a Naturall and Bodily vnion to be betweene vs and Christ by eating his flesh in the Sacrament I. D. That Hilary speaketh of the Lords Supper or of our Coniunction with Christ by Eating thereof I thinke it will hardly be proved Had he so meant how cometh it to passe that he never alledgeh those words of the Sacrament This is my body which would haue made more for his purpose but ever voucheth the sixt of Iohn which maketh little to the Sacrament Howbeit if you will needs vnderstand him so I will not striue Know then that in those bookes St Hilary disputes against the Arians To them he obiected that saying The Father and the Sonne are one One answered they as wee are with Christ by Will not by Nature wherevnto he replied that wee are even by Nature one with Christ. And this he proues first because both in Christ and vs there is the same Humane nature by the Incarnation of the Sonne of God which hee calls the Sacrament of perfect vnion Secondly because the Faithfull are ioyned vnto him by his Spirit dwelling in them which regenerateth quickneth sanctifieth them and not only conformeth them vnto him but also transformeth them into him And for proofes hereof hee alledgeth divers passages of St Iohns Gospell such as your selues confesse no way to belong vnto the Sacrament Thirdly for that by Baptisme we are ioyned vnto Christ and that not only by consent of will but naturally according to that of Saint Paul As many as are baptized into Christ haue put on Christ. Whereunto lastly if you please you may adde for that also in the Lords Supper wee are vnited vnto him by Eating his Flesh and Drinking his Blood All these waies saith Hilary are wee Naturally ioyned vnto Christ. If so then not only by the Eucharist And if for the establishing of the other meanes there needeth no Transubstantiation at all as of the Sonne of God into Man of Faith into the Spirit of Christ or of Baptismall water into the Bloud of Christ neither is it necessarie for this that bread be Transubstantiated into the Body of Christ. Or if to bring Christ into vs and our mouth you will needs transubstantiate the bread into his body I wonder what Transubstantiation you will devise to bring vs into him and his mouth For Hilary affirmeth that by the same Mysticall coniunction not only is Christ in vs but also wee are Naturally in him The same Answere may serue for Cyril also wherevnto for farther explication of the word Naturally and Naturall so often vsed both by Cyril and Hilary I adde that in them Naturally signifieth Truly Naturall True if wee may beleeue him who best knew their meaning even Cyril himselfe For thus he Not according to naturall vnity that is true vnity By nature wee are the children of wrath where by nature we are to vnderstand truth So that Naturall vnion is true vnion and naturally to be vnited is truly to be vnited which I hope may bee without Transubstantiation N. N. Theodoret doth proue that Christ tooke Flesh of the blessed virgin and ascended vp with the same and holdeth the same there by that he giueth to vs his true flesh in the Sacrament for that otherwise hee could not giue vs his true Flesh to eat if his owne flesh were not true seeing that he gaue the same that he carried vp and retaineth in heauen I. D. I marvell much not one of the Fathers being more expresse against Transubstantiation then Theodoret that yet you durst to praise him in the maintenance thereof Evē for this cause doth the Preface to the Roman Edition goe about to weaken his authority and Gregorie of Valentia flatly condemneth him It is no wonder saith he if one or two or more of the Ancients haue thought or written of this matter not so considerately and rightly Adde herevnto that Theodoret was noted by the Councell of Ephesus for some other errours besides But how much Theodoret maketh against Transubstantiation you shall heare hereafter Now you may be pleased to knowe that in the place by you cited he disputeth against an Eutychian Hereticke who held that the Humanitie of Christ was abolished and absorpted by his Deitie This hee would proue by the Eucharist that as the Symbols before Consecration are one thing but after it are changed and become another even so the Body of Christ after the Assumption thereof is chāged into the Divine Substance Now if Theodoret had beene Transubstantiator hee had beene finely taken for Transubstantiation abolisheth the substance of Bread and turneth it into the substance of Christs Body But hee taketh the Heretike in his owne nets affirming the Mysticall signes after their sanctification doe not depart from their nature and that therefore Christ after the Assumption thereof retaineth his Humanity still Whereby you may see that although it be yeelded that Christ giueth vs his true Flesh in the Sacrament yet in the iudgement of Theodoret he so giueth it that the Mysticall signes retaine their Nature still which vtterly overturnes your Transubstantiation N. N. S. Irenaeus S. Iustin and S.