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A18440 An answeare for the time, vnto that foule, and wicked Defence of the censure, that was giuen vpon M. Charkes booke, and Meredith Hanmers Contayning a maintenance of the credite and persons of all those woorthie men: namely, of M. Luther, Caluin, Bucer, Beza, and the rest of those godlie ministers of Gods worde, whom he, with a shamelesse penne most slanderously hath sought to deface: finished sometime sithence: and now published for the stay of the Christian reader till Maister Charkes booke come foorth. Charke, William, d. 1617. 1583 (1583) STC 5008; ESTC S107734 216,784 212

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Sacramentes which can be no Sacraments if there be not the signe as well as the thing signified The one offered to the sense as consisting of an earthly part the other to faith as being the heauenlie and spiritual parte And where as you say that we haue found out a new exposition of these words this is my bodie affirming that we say it must needes be thus construed It is the onely signe of my bodie We say not so It is an impudent slaunder and you declare of what spirite you are when you shame not in the light of the sonne and before al the 〈◊〉 to aduouch such a manifest vntruth Amb. saith As thou 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 receiued the similitude of death so doest thou in the Sacrament drinke the similitude of his blood And againe in eating 〈◊〉 the bread Wine we doe signifie the eating 〈◊〉 of the flesh and blood he offered for vs. And in the very place by you alleadged 〈◊〉 thou wilt say saith he I see no appearance of blood no 〈◊〉 hath a 〈◊〉 For euē as thou hast taken a similitude of his death so thou 〈◊〉 the similitude of his most precious blood As for Cyrill none is playner then he Christ gaue saith he peeces of bread to his disciples saying Take yee eate yee this is my body Chrisostome saith 〈◊〉 ordained the Table of his last holy supper for this purpose that in the Sacrament he shoulde daily shew vs bread and wine for a 〈◊〉 of his bodie and blood But why doe I enter into this course with you The Doctors in infinite places doe testifie the truth of this doctrine that wee holde and mainteine in our Churche If you haue any thing it is either by clipping thē adding vnto them or diminishing from thē And though Luther in his time brought not onely 8. but 8. score interpretations and your not learned Claudius de Zanctes not 84. but 800. and 4. what maketh this to diminish the authoritie of the Scripture This is your reasō Luther in his time noted 8. sundrie interpretations vpon these wordes This is my body which yet is malitiously gathered of you and Claudius Zāctes 84. who is an impudēt Frier therfore a liar and althese alledge the Scriptures therefore there is no fit trial by the scriptures We leane not so to men that we in their names receiue whatsoeuer commeth from them that is common with papistes that if any thing be thrust vpon you in the name of any whō you like of by by you admit it how corrupt soeuer it be And though Luther had his faultes yet wee may truely say that he was a man enlightned by Gods spirit considering the time wherin he wrote being but newly crawled out of the dūghil of your corruptions in that notable fortitude and zeale wherin he set himselfe against Antichrist he may in some sort be wel compared to Elias And in regard that he taught the trueth in the most principall matters of faith and religion we pardon whatsoeuer he hath vttered against our persons as I haue said before which you set forth in the 13. 14. sections this shalbe al the answere I wil vouchsafe to bestowe vppon you at this time for this matter But your conclusion of the premisses is too grosse in the 15. section where you disfauour the controuersie betwixt vs concerning our prouoking to scripture for we prouoke to God you to men Wee leane not vpon any interpretation that is priuate but to that which is frō God we refuse not the testimony of men whē it is not against God Further we shift no scriptures For that concerning vowes it is playne that the prophet vnderstandeth that place of the worship of God For as they receiued benefites vnder the lawe so they vowed according to the holie purposes of their hearts such sacrifices as were enioyned by the law of God what makes this for the maintenaunce of rash vowes in a wil-worshippe deuised by sinful men who neither haue the gifte nor power to keepe that which they rashly promise vnto God And therefore it is iustly so wiped away by M. Fulk Again tha to ther place of Mat. 19. If thou wilt be perfect goe sel al that thou hast and giue it to the poore who seeth not that it was singuler for him that boasted of a perfection aboue other as also that other declareth If thou wilt enter into life keepe the cōmandements though this belōg vnto all yet our iustification is not frō the law but frō faith which that this yong mā might haue bin made to see he was beatē frō his hold y t knowing his own imperfection he might disclaime it and rest in that perfectiō of Christ which also vnles you Papistes do whatsoeuer you boast of a more perfectiō of life in Christianity thē others therfore do as you think more then you ought therfore at least must keep the cōmandements you cānot be saued It is pitiful to see your blindnes how greedily you snatch at that which yet you cānot swallow leaue that which is prouided for your euerlasting comforte Whatsoeuer pertaineth to life or doctrine is cōmon to all to serue both for exāple instructiō but yet many things are spokē to finguler persons in singuler respects as the fasting of Christ 40. daies his going vppon the water his healing of the sicke his raising the dead c. which yet I thinke you wil not so apply as though al your Iesuites shold do al such things as Christ did But I know where to haue you For in times paste you had some shame but now you haue gotten harlots forheads That also of S. Iames cap. 2. Cōcerning iustification not by a dead faith hath bin made plaine lōg agoe not only that but also that whiche you bring out of the 2 to the Rom. againe out of 1. Cor. 7. Mat. 19. where as you had touched them often But you make no conscience to blot paper againe againe with one the same thing You are like vnto flies who though they iolte thēselues neuer so oftē against the glasse yet they seeke stil a way to get out We hold according to the doctrine of Iames that he that shalbe iustified both before God mē must haue a true a liuely faith which we discerne by good workes as by fruits frō that dead faith which hath no fruits of sanctificatiō yet we affirme still with M. Fulk that those works that do proceed frō the fullest truest faith that is cānot iustifie vs in thēselues before God therfore whē Abraham is said to be iustified by works whē he offred vp his sōne Isaack y e meaning is plain that he was foūd a iustified mā by that worke that was before mē not before God otherwise thē as faith being liuely layeth hold vpō that righteousnes of Christ
learne or to teach Dispute you as men to bee tryed or rather as these that are 〈◊〉 and woulde subuert both Church and common wealth You may prate what you list and write as long as you will but wise men see well enough where at you shoote as hath been saide before And whereas you attribute their obstinacie which you call constancie to the mercie and grace of God you abuse both the name and grace of God contrarie to the commaundement of God Thou shalt not take the name of the Lorde thy God in vaine Besides you charge God with their treason and superstition the cause neither being his not depending vpon any worde of his And therefore it was not for him but against him and in his iuste indgemente hee found them out as I doubt not but in time it shall likewise fall out with all those that are so redie of whom you speake that carry so treasonable and traiterous mindes whereto if according to your confession they be still so bent and shall pursue that which others left I beseech the Lorde to appoint the time quickly that you may receiue a iust recompence and peace may bee vpon all Gods Israel amongest vs. The rest you say in master Charkes Preface is not worth answer neither surely is that which is answered alreadie which yet you haue accounted moste worthie of answere For your bare affirmation and wordes is no more proufe and reason then a 〈◊〉 is a milstone no more is your disabling of our cause in comparison of yours Not ours but Christes as yours is not yours but Antichristes And wee easily yeelde you that in respect of the worlde surely our cause is somewhat more beggerly then yours For Satan by Antichriste the Pope doth enable furnish and decke it with all possible pompe efficacie deceite lying signes and wonders that can bee Rome is a rose coloured whoore and your Rochettes and Crochets your Hattes and crownes are not decked with studdes of Iron but all to beedawbed with iewels and precious stones Her cup in her hand is of fine golde Shee is a whore not for euery man but kinges and princes commit fornication with her And for vniuersalitie it is cleare that all the inhabitants of the earth shal worship the beast whose names are not written in the booke of life they are not written in the booke of the lambe that is slaine Hee shall rule and giue them a marke in their handes and no man shall by nor sell without the marke of the beaste In deede in this respect Christe is a beggar true religion is beggerie and your cause is honourable and you are the Lordes of the worlde But heere I must warne you that whilest you talke of your wealth and your honour yet you forgate not to begge very beggerly the matter in question If you had wonne the cause then you might charge vs with pride and take the name of humilitie But if you bee so good a Phisition to knowe the disease of an heretike I wonder you coulde not finde your owne sicknesse to the death heretikes in deede and therefore pride such a disease in you as meane Phisitions may see and handle knowen to all that knowe but little seene to them that are halfe blind and apparant to the whole worlde without measure But Christ howe base and beggerly soeuer you make him yet is hee the high riches and very treasurie of God And as Augustine with the testimonie and consent of those sounde witnesses standing in mainteinance of the truth had an honourable cause and the other though Iulianistes Arrians Donatists and all the rabble of earth and hell set against him in the strength of flesh blood had a weake and beggerly cause euen so haue you that haue neither sentence of Scripture nor sounde Doctor for the space of the first 600. yeeres to take your parte your pith is so poore of these almost 1200 yeeres that we can neither see nor feele it and therefore it is a vaine popish bragge As for Luther whō you raue so much against it is a lie that our religion began with him For our religiō is the wisedome of God before al beginning Al the Saints of God that euer were in al the times ages of the worlde haue euer both opened their mouths spoken against Antichrist you his members All the Patriarches Prophets Christ himselfe and his Apostles Yea when Antichrist grew and occupied that holie place boasting himselfe as God in the greatest times of darknes yet God euermore stirred vp lōg before Luther was borne sundry excellent spirites to controll his abhominatōs and to stand for his blessed truth which as it hath gained against him made the towers of his pride to bowe towards destruction so beeing the breath of Christe it shall not cease til it haue vtterly ouerthrowne him But it is to be marked how your popish heate carried you here into a disdayneful reproch against one of your own names when you cal him a Rūnegate Frier If his order were holy then you doe amisse because of his heresie to disdayne his profession But a man may see what reuerence and conscience you beare to your owne titles And yet me thinks this should not so much gaule you in respect of vs cause you so to raue against vs seing he is one of your owne and hauing so farre proceeded amongst you brought out such is the streight of truth so harde batterie against you But blessed be God that euen out of your own bowels hath bred so sundry notable instruments to bewray your falshood to vindicate the truth As for his impugning of vs take you no care for that It wilbe best for you to keepe your own heads as hath bin said We easily pardon that which may be pardoned euery man seeth not al things and some differences may wel stand with the vnity of faith You papistes bee not al of a coate nor all of a religion your deuision is indeede in the bowels in matters of substance and weight and therefore I trust it is a true Prognostication of your vtter destruction when God shal appeare in glory You are deuided into infinite orders professions at warre contrary one to another Nay your opinions are so contradictorie as by no meanes they canne bee reconciled and so are your popes your Popes Canons At the death of your popes you are wont to publish that they are departed out of this life to euerlasting happines and rest and yet you commaunde herses to bee set vp and prayers to bee saide for them that they may be receiued to happines and rest Yee glorie of your consent and agreement in expounding the scriptures and yet your doctours teach that the scriptures are fitted and diuerslye vnderstoode for the time so as they maye bee expounded at one time according to the curraunte vniuersall ryte of the Churche but that ryte beeyng chaunged that also