vanity and men of high degree are a lye and the heart of man is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things Hear this ye wise men and foolish The more ye strive against the Lord the more is your wound made incurable and the higher you rise in envy always the deeper is your fall in confusion And now Christian Reader whose heart God hath opened to see and behold the things that be eternal and can truly discern of different causes and between the good and the evil and between the light and the darkness This Book is sent forth in the pursuit and after a Book called Hosâ—nna to the Son of David c. by a nameless Author whose work indeed was hardly worthy of an honest mans Name though very subtilly and craftily he prosecutes his purpose and traverses his steps full cunningly as this worlds wisdom could guide him in which wisdom he cannot know or receive the things of God and therefore it cannot be expected that the things of God should be received from that wisdom and though he hath confounded in his words his description of the Light of Christ sometimes speaking well of it aâ—d sometimes otherwise and not knowing hardly whereof he hath affirmed his words are so confounded and mixed in his corrupt reason in giving forth his knowledge of the things of God which he seems to be ignorant of but only as he hath the knowledge of them from the Letter by which no man can come to the knowledge of God nor of the things of his Kingdom without the revelation of the Spirit of Jesus and the operation of the same Spiriâ— But Friends the Testimony of God stands sure for ever though men would confound it in their own reason And this is the Testimony That Christ lighteth every man that cometh into the world which Light is sufficient to lead every man to God or else to condemn every man from God and this Testimony is true notwithstanding all the opposition against it and it shall abide sure for ever though men strive never so much in the gain-saying of it And this is the Testimony which we have born and shall bear to the end and who believes it and who believes it not this is the hand of the Lord according to his pleasure and to him we leave it and so we do and must clear our consciences from time to time while the Lord gives us a being And herein we are a good savour to God and our reward is with him whether Israel be gathered or no Isa. 49. And also this nameless Author which is supposed to be one John Jackson known in this City hath taken some seeming occasion against us by searching our Books and as he saith hath found some contradictions in them which may appear to be so to his dark mind yet in the sight of the spirit of the Lord that is truth which he sees to be no other than error However this is sent forth for the true information of peoples minds that they may know that truth is bold and confident and that it is Armour which defendeth from all Enemies and giveth strength to answer the craftiness of men And this same John Jackson hath shewed himself now to be one with the common Priests of the world for as they have done so hath he opposed the way and people of God and with the very same arguments shewing that he is of the very same spirit with them his discourse and arguments being of the same nature as theirs are yea he hath shewed himself to be of the very same spiâ—it with all the open prophane wretches which doth revile and scorn and abuse in every Town and Countrey the Lords people and as they do so so hath he written with subtile Arguments to the very same end as they reproach and scorn to wit in a derision and despising the way and servants of the Lord so that his self-separation is now seen what it is to be a very cheat and hypocrisie who while he professeth a separation frâ—m the World doth practice the very same wickedness and is not changed from them in nature though he be in appearance But what a poor work hath he brought forth in two years time which he saith his work hath been as Embers raked up in ashes yet a work that gains no praise of God nor very little of the praise of any man It seems he hath hatched mischief upon his bed and brought it forth in the morning Who would have thought but a wise man in that time would have brought forth a larger piece and more to purpose I am sure he might have made better use of his time in another exercise than to have writ against the servants of the Lord It had been more honest for him to have set his pen to paper and studyed to have given his testimony against the Pridâ— and Drunkenness and Oppression and Whoredoms and Wickedness in this great City I say it had been more honest and liker a Saint to have sought the reforming of prophaneness and wickedness that greatly abounds in this City than to have studyed two years to bring forth his invented stuff against a harmless and innocent people which he nor any can justly charge with evil but as he hath digged deep by his imaginations in recollecting a seeming-contradiction out of our writings which is no contradiction no more then Christs words are who saith Except ye eat my flesh and drink my blood ye have no life in you And yet in the same discourse saith The flesh profits nothing And for Isaiah to go with the Word of the Lord to Hezekiah to tell him he should dye and not live yet in the same instant of time told him he should live and not dye Would not John Jackson have counted these contradictions But what he hath done in this in sending forth a Book against the Quakers he hath been so far from beating down sin drunkards and rude scorners and abusive men that he hath fully strengthened their hands and the wickedst people in this Nation are very glad of his work he hath given them matter to oppose truth withall but his reward and theirs shall be both with one hand and he shall drink his portion in the same Lake with such whose hands he hath strengthened and let him know and them all God hath established us upon a sure Mountain which the Gates of Hell and Death cannot prevail against So his work is counted of us and cast by as our spoiled prey of Babylons treasure onely this is sent abroad after it in the pursuit of it which is not done with multitudes of words of mans wisdom but in the plain nakedness of innocent truth which is more strength than all his arguments of guile whereby he would deceive the people but he can deceive none but such as are deceived already for all that are in the Light and in the Truth sees beyond all that he can say and are established
all know which secretly worketh to bring forth his own plant hâ—s seed his elect from the ends of the earth and from the bondage of corruption which the creatures groan under but the redemption and deliverance of the creatures is to be waited for that the glorious liberty may be witnessed which is free from corruption and this the daughters and sons of the living God is to waiâ— for abiding in the word of his grace there is nothing hid whicâ—â—hall not be made manifest nor nothing promised but shall be fulfilled to the seed in whom all the promises of God is Yea and Amen for ever Your dear brother in that which from the world is hid Richard Hubberthorn Prisoner in Norwich Castle Written the 19. day of the second Month 1655. Some Queries for you to answer who hold forth this testimony to the people That Christ is a Creaâ—ure against those that wâ—â—ness him to be the Son of God by which the World was made perfect God and Man not created but begotten according to the Scriptures 1. What knowledge of Christ that is without a man and how may a man do to lay his foundation thereon without having him revealed in spirit within seeing that was held forth by some of you 2. When was that Christ created which you say must as a Creature judge the World and if in Maries time who was judge of the World till then or did he judge the World as God till then and as a Creature ever since 3. Whether was not that Christ which you call a Creature sent out of Heaven from the Father and did he send a Creature to redeem the Creation and judge it 4. Is there any son of man as a Redeemer but he that came down from Heaven who filleth heaven and earth and was not he in heaven when he was in the flesh with his Disciples and do not the Saints partake of his flesh now upon earth 5. Whether all they which did see that body which to the world appeared in similitude of sinful flesh did see the shape and hear the voice of the Son of God or know the Man Christ Jesus 6. And if Christ was in that body which he appeared to the World before the World was as was asserted by Joshua Sprigge and he a creature as you say and the World made by a creature whether is not this to make the word of God of none effect 7. Was not the person of Christ Jesus before the World was his nature and glory the same that is now with the Father in heaven or in what is it changed and when had the man Christ Jesus his beginning if you can declare it 8 Did the Son of man take upon him the nature of the first Adam as he is in the fall when he took part of flesh and blood or do any know his nature who are in the fall and is not the flesh of Christ a mysterie to all mankinde till he be revealed in spirit 9 What that eating of the flesh of the Son of Man is seeing none can have eternal life in them but who eat it is the eating of it the eating of a creature and doth not all as they eat thereof become one flesh and spirit with him in his life and knowledge and if you have eat that flesh drunk that blood how is it you have the knowledge of God which is life eternal yet to seek seeing he that eats and drinks thereof can never thirst more but shall have the spring of life within or can the eating of that flesh which is of the nature of the first Adam give life eternal 10 How is Christ the only begotten Son of God if he be a creature or how can God beget a creature and if the whole person of Christ was not the before the earthly Adam how was the Creation made by him or how can he be of the nature of fallen Adam and not earthly and defiled or can God dwell in that nature but as it is purified and brought to the beginning seeing the fulness of the God-head dwelt bodily in him and is â—he flesh of Christ heavenly or earthly or is he Christ without his flesh 11 Whose obedience and righteousness and works is that which is not Christs and how is it that Christ makes any obedience or righteousness accepted with the Father which is not his own and of his own working this being one thing affirmed by you 12 How is it that a man can be in the spirit of God and in the spirit of Satan both at one instant and doth not the obeying the one deny the other and are not these the two Masters that no man can serve which you seem to affirm the contrary 13 Whether did God create man with any thing of the Devil in him and if not whether any can witness perfect redemption so long as the Devil hath any thing in them seeing some of you could not receive this testimony Now seeing we did answer many of your queries and you would answer none to us so now answer these things in writing that it may be manifest what testimony it is you bear of Christ Jesus for of our testimony of Christ Jesus we are not ashamed before men A lover of your souls and eternal good R. H. The innocency of the righteous seen of God cleared from all slanderous tongues and false accusers IN answer to a printed paper set forth by Frederick Woodall wherein he goes about to render the truth of God odious and by a cloak of maliciousness to cover those lies which he hath formerly published but in the light of God I do him see and comprehend and in it he is made manifest to all the children of light to be no Minister of Christ and to the light of Christ in all consciences I speak that in it they may read these things which from the light is declared that so occasion may be cut off from all who seek occasion against the truth that so peoples minds may not be incensed against the truth of God by his refuge of lyes set forth in his paper called Natural and Spiritual light distinguished But in the light of Christ which is but one which is not natural but spiritual is he seen to be natural and his distinction to be natural and so in the light the natural man with his natural doctrine and natural distinction is denied and Christ Jesus we do witness who is the true light which lighteth every one that cometh into the world Joh. 1.9 I am come a light into the world that whosoever believeth in me should not abide in darkness Joh. 12.46 and this is the condemnation of the world that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather then light because their deeds were evil Joh. 3.19 20 21. Now all you who are enlightned by Christ Jesus and can read in the light and with understanding to you there is no occasion of stumbling but all
Except ye eat my flesh and drink my blood ye have no life in you And this is his Supper in eating of which the creature hath life in himself Therefore fly from idolatry I speak unto wise men judge what I say the cup of blessing which we bless is the Communion of the blood of Christ and the bread which we break is the Communion of the body of Christ For we being many are one bread and one body for we are all partakers of that one bread 1 Cor. 10.14 15 16 17. For the bread of God is he that came down from Heaven and giveth life unto the World John 6.33 Then said they unto him Lord evermore give us this bread and Jesus said unto them I am the bread of life he that cometh to me shall never hunger and he that believeth on me shall never thirst John 6.34 35. I am the living bread which came down from heaven if any man eat of this bread he shall live for ever and the bread that I will give is my flesh which I will give for the life of the world v. 51. But the Jews could not belive this neither can this Priest but saith we own feâ—ding on Christs flesh but deny his Supper and so as blind as they But by the life which we receive in eating of his flesh and drinking of his bloud are we manifest to be of those that feed at his Table and cannot have communion at the Table of Devils as the Church of God could not 1 Cor. 10.21 Again He saith that we own baptism with the spirit but deny baptism with water I answer Who come to the baptism with the spirit into one body they are come to the one baptism which the Saints witnessed not laying again the doctrine of baptism which waâ— several but witnessing the one the substance of the other which was necessary to salvation so all those things in which the substance was signified whether circumcision or water is not denied in their time and place when the obedience in them was from the command of the spirit and not from tradition but people now in the ignorance of God and his ways take up things by tradition being both out of the command and out of the substance and such deny the substance where it is witnessed as for this Priest Clapham he hath never ministred water baptism as it was ministred when it was a doctrine from heaven for there is not one in all his Congregation that had first received the holy Ghost nor believed in Christ before he baptised them with water and so both the substance and the figure is denied in him so that in that in which he would accuse another without ground is he upon good ground found guilty And as for denying to give thanks that is false for we are bound in spirit to give thanks always to the Father who hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the Saints in light and whether we eat or eat not we give God thanks and this we are come to witness to pray without ceasing and in all things give thanks for so is the will of God concerning us and in us is it fulfilled and we sing with the Spirit and with understanding also but such take Davids conditions which waâ— made manifest unto him in the sure mercies of the Lord to him and sing his deliverances whose soul is yet in the pit and sing his prophesies who never knew the spirit of prophesie in themselves and say they have roared all the day long by reason of their sins when as they have roared all the day long in fulfilling their sins and iniquities and for the scorners to say they have no scornful eye and for the proud to say they are not puft in mind such singing we deny which is without the Spirit and without understanding also For light is sown for the righteous and joy for the upright in heart so to the light with which Christ hath enlightned every one that cometh into the world I speak which tends to uprightness of heart and unto holiness without which no man can see the Lord those things which are reprovable are made manifest in the Liâ—ht and that which doth make manifâ—st is light which all who be out of it is in darkness and know not whether they go nor what they profit as many now in these days being kept from the light and gate of truth by the doctrines of men and so never come to read in the Lambs book of life which first all must come to know the vials poured forth upon the earth upon the Beast and his works and his sear which is found standing in all them who be from the light they be enlightned withal But the hour is coming and now is when all they that be upon the face of the earth may see the appearance of the Son of God and may receive his power in the measure which his Father hath given them to receive him in therefore every one who comes to see with the light of the Son of God enter into thaâ— which you see to be of him and out of that which you see to be of the World that so the everlasting righteousness and peace you may possess in your obedience to what is made manifest that you may come to see and favour the things of God from those things that be of the World and as every one walks in the light you will be as a sweet smelling sacrâ—fice unto the Lord and knowing and feeling the power of â—he Lord with it the everlasting door vvill be opened and the vvell-springs of life to the feeding of the plants of God with the uncorruptible food which is every word which proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord vvhich vvill be received as that of God in every particular is kept single Again The Priest in his 3 4 5. Section saith That we deny the doctrine of the Trinity and that we hold equality with God and the soul be â—ne being with God and corrupt the doctrine of justification Answ. For a Trinity of persons there is no such docâ—â—â—ne in the Scriptures neither the vvord three Persons nor Trinity and so three distinct one from another eternally as he hath held forth saying Christ is the eternal Son of God distinct from the Father eternally and the Spirit is distinguished from the Father and the Son eternally This is a Tradition of men taught for a doctrine but no doctrine and in denying of that vve do but deny Claphams tradition but as for the Father Word and Spirit which bear record in heaven these three are one and vvas never separated eternally for Christ in the days of his flesh vvhen he vvas in the vvorld said I and my Father are one and said I in them and they in me that they may be one as we are one John 17.11 22. and so this doctrine of the unity of the Father Word and Spirit
saith that Christ ascended far above all Heavens that he might fill all things to wit with his Light Eph. 4.11 So here he hath answerd himself for if Christ that is ascended doth fill all things with his Light then he doth not make mens hearts void of Light In page 17. he saith That Christ enlightens the world with the knowledge of God as the Prophet of the Church and if so then men want not Light to guide them in the knowledge of their duty and the way to salvation so herein he hath answered himself to his own confusion Again in page 43. he saith That none of the Gentiles not barbarous people who had not the Scripture nor such other teachings as God's People were taught by had the Light within them which might be a â—â—mpleat and safe rule or guide to them for the pleasing of God Ans. In contradiction unto which he saith in page 60. that Christ as the Mediator enlightens with spiritual Light every man that cometh into the World and pag 62. That he enlightens Gentiles as well as Jews with a spiritual Light And page 63. that Christ as the Sun of Righteousness was to enlighten all Nations So then if those latter be true then the former is false for if all that come into the World both Jews and Gentiles be enlightened with a spiritual Light by Christ as their Mediator and as he is the Sun of Righteousness then they do not want a Light within them which is a compleat and safe Rule or Guide to them for the pleasing of God and so by this the Quakers Doctrine is approved and made good instead of being disproved Again that John Tombs may appear to be wise above what is written he goes about to prove many Lights under several names and distinctions as page 12. he saith There are Lights that like ignis fatuus foolish fire lead men into dark places lakes and bogs wherein they that follow them perish Secondly There are lights that for a while lead men in the way and then soon go out and so leave men in darkness and perplexity Thirdly That there is an amazing light that doth by its brightness strike dead and cast down to the Earth Rev. 1.16 17. Acts 22.6.11 Act 9.9 Fourthly Christ is an excelling light not striking dead nor casting down nor blinding Fifthly That there was a light in the law but it was imperfect Sixthly That there is a bodily light in animate bodies Seventhly That there is a natural light of Creatures Eighthly There is a rational light of men pag. 16. Ninthly That there is a Scripture-light and saith he the Word which is written in my Bible shall be my light page 80. Ans. In that which is above-mentioned he appeareth to be puffed up by vain conceits imaginations and distinctions above what is written in the Scriptures of Truth till he manifests himself to be wholly in darkness not knowing what he saith nor whereof he affirmeth For where doth the Scripture speak of any Lights like false fire that leads men into dark places Lakes and Bogs but we read in the Scriptures that he that walks in darkness knows not whether he goes and there is the perishing in the Lakes And where doth the Scriptures speak of such Lights as for a while lead â—â—n in the way and then go out when men are in the way and so leave them in darkness And where do the Scriptures speak of a natural Light and a bodily Light and a rational-Light and a Scripture-Light And whereas thou speakest of an amazing light that by its brightness doth strike down dead and cast down to the Earth and brings Rev. 1 16 17. Acts 22.6 11. Acts 9.9 whereas it saith That the light of Christ's countenance was as the Sun shining in his strength which when John saw him fell at his feet dead and Paul with the light was struck down which Light appearing to John and Paul was Christ yet in the next words contrary to the Scriptures and thy own assertions saith That Christ is an excelling light not striking dead nor casting down nor blinding And so thy words is but as a heap of confusion and contradiction one unto another and to the Scripturâ—â— and so in a few words thou maist be answered even with thy own darkness for if thou knew the Light of Christ in the least measure it would keep thee out of the line of this confusion and then thou would justifie those whom now thou condemns and falsly accuseth to be guilty of thy own devisings Again Another contradiction concerning the Light from page 33. thou saist That light from Christ as Creator is conferred upon all men without exception of any person And to contradict it in p. 37. he saith that the Gentiles are without light And p. 66. that Christ enlightens Gentiles as well as Jews with his spiritual light Ans. So to what end is all thy preaching and printing but to utter forth thy own confusion And dost thou think that all people are blind as thy self that cannot see plain contradiction Nay for the light is risen in which thou art seen if thou hadst more subtilty craft and guile to cover thy self withall than thou hast but thou hast appeared naked that every one may see thy shame Again John Tombs in the 26. page saith that in this life they that are born of the Spirit are flesh whereas Christ saith He that is born of the spirit is spirit Ans. Herein thou art imprudent to place these two contrâ—dictions together and to set thy lye before Christ's Truth to make people believe that although Christ said He that is borâ— of the Spirit is Spirit yet it is not so for he that is born of the Spirit is flesh saist thou and to prove thy lye against his truth saith that the new birth which makes us no longer flesh and blood iâ— that seâ—ce is not the birth of water and of the Spirit mentioned Job 3.5 but the Power of God by which he will raise us up 1 Cor. â— 14 the birth of water nor the Spirit John 3.5 6. is here in this life thâ— other is not till the resurrection Ans. Herein thy proof is as false as thy lye before-mentioned for â—hat which is born of water and of the spirit is spirit and also the power of God bâ— which we are raised up is witnessed in this life whereby the Apostle said they were made members of Christ and were joined unto the Lord by that one Spirit of which they were born And is this the Faith which thou begets people into that they cannot be born again in this life of the Spirit So they have believed and followed thee long enough for they were but in the fleshly birth before thou came amongst them and are so yet and must not be born of the Spirit by thy doctrine while in this life until the resurrection and so that they may believed thee and not Christ thou strivest to keep them from
tares which men gather which must be bound in bundles and cast into the fire for what is the Chaff to the Wheat or what is all such invented words to the knowledg of the Father Son and Spirit which are one which bear record in heaven and are three that beare witnesse in earth the Spirit and Water and the Blood and these three agree in one and when these are known in their witnesse in man what they witnesse unto and what they witnesse againsti within and without such will give them names according to their works and according to the Scriptures The Third head of John Stelhams Scripture Contradiction is concerning the light which every man is enlightened withall which of all things is most hated by all such whose wayes words works are contrary ot it for it being risen in the hearts of the Children of men to give the knowledge of the truth hath in this day made many wiser than their Teachers and now they which have caused people to err are by the light seen and by the Children of light are denyed and they being denyed their envie is up against the light which hath made them manifest and they walk not by the light nor according to the Scriptures buâ— there is a line of confusion comes over them by which now they walk and from which their writings doth proceed as John Stelham in page 52. saith they may affirm agreeable to the Scripture and yet contradict the Scriptures in saying Christ is in every man or that the light in every man leades to the Father saith Christ God or as God is in every man a spark of his god-head-light is in every man but there is not in every man that redemption light which leads to the Father That light which Christ hath enlightened every man withal leads to the Father all who are led by it and believe in it and condemns all from the Father which do not obey it but hate it and speak dispitefully against it who are turned out from God who is light and truth into the confusion saying that the God-head-light is not the Redemption-light but with the light that Lye and confusion is judged for ever and in affirming that the God-head-light is in every mâ—n and then calling it common and old Creation-light Scripture-light pag. 61. and the light of Nature page 74 75 and a legall light page 76. and a created light page 78. and an universal light unto which I say as God is so is his light so is his god-head not created nor natural and as every one comes to know the light which by J.S. is so reviled they shal neither follow nor believe his Doctrine till he can prove when the light of the God-head was created and how it became natural or legal or where he had those names for the Scriptures doth give no such names to the light so by his own rule he speaking more than is in the Scripture is not a Messenger sent by Gods spirit nor guided by it in what he sâ—ith As also in other things as in Pag 64. saying That light without Sâ—ripture is no light Then Enoch's light in which he walk'd wiâ—h God was no light nor Jacobs light nor Isaacs nor Abrahams for they were without these Writings this letter which he calls the Scriptures but they were not without light And thousands have so much light whether they have the Sâ—riptures or not as to see this darkness as to say light though saving light without Scripture is no light did the Scriptures make the light to be light and was the saving light made by that which was written let all take notice turne away from such in another place he calls the Scripture but the declaration that Christ is the Word calleâ—h them a Vessel that the light is put into in p. 43. 44 Now let them of understanding consider judg whether the vessel be the maker of that which is put into it whether Wine that is put into a Bottle be made wine by the Bottle or whether it is not Wine without the bottle Water put into a vessel be not Wâ—ter without the vessel or whether the vessel make it to be Water J.S. saith Every verse of Scripture is a little vessel of light that light without scripture is no light so these things have I laid open that every one may see how the Lord hath turned wise men backward and made their Wisdom foolishness and that they may see how those stumble and fall and are snared and taken whose light is turned into darkness and hovv great that darkness is and novv is the Scripture not denied but fulfilled for now is the Light and Truth come into the World by which they are found to be blind who said they saw and in which they see that vvere blind And now the depths are seen vvhich are covered vvith darkness and Babylon is seen the Mother of Harlots which bring forth in confusion and bind up in ignorance Other confusions and lyes I shall also mention given forth by J.S. in his Book As p. 68. he saith that God was and is the Word according to John 1.1 and in p. 69. he saith The Father is not the Word nor never so called which is a contradiction And in p. 70. saith Christ is more in the Scriptures than in his Saints vvhich is false for greater vvas that vvhich the vvords came from than the vvords vvhich did but declare of the fulness from vvhence they came as all that know Christ wil bear witness unto and against all such that say Christ is more in the words than in them who spake the words Again in p. 73. he saith Christ the Author of salvation to them that obey him speaking in the Scripture saveth by the Scripture which is false and contrary to the testimony of the Scriptures and the witness of them who witnessed his salvation who said By his Life are we saved and by Grace through faith which was the gift of God and not by the Letter and their Witness was true for God and his Works and against all such who are of a lying heart and spirit of error who would make the Letter to be the Light yea more even that vvhich makes light to be light and so greater for that vvhich makes a thing is greater than a thing that is made and would have the Letter to be the Word when as the Letter saith God is the Word and would make the Scriptures to be that by which people are saved as in p. 73. saying Christ saveth by the Scriptures but the Scriptures speak no such thing of themselves for they say there is no other name under Heaven by which men can be saved but by the name of Jesus neither is there such a word written in the Bible that saith men are saved by the scriptures nor that the Light of the God-head is natural as I. S. saith that he may
sent by us to bring others to the knowledge of God through it and this is no self-contradiction let J.S. say what he will Further J.S. doth instance E.B. his calling mans light natural and carnal in the Warning c. and would cal his contradiction to some who deny the light of Christ to be natural and carnal as the Priests of England terme it but this is no contradiction for though we do deny that the light of Christ Jesus is natural and carnal and doth not allow any so to call it yet the light of man by which carnal men do judg of carnal transgressions is natural E.B. doth never say that the light of Christ is natural and carnal but the light of Mâ—n is so he saith and in this Instance there is no contradiction neither in any parts of the words following which are transcribed and much might be said as to the occasion of those words being uttered when E. B. was in prison falsly as many have been since who was one of the first that by imprisonment was a sufferer for the name of Jesus in the North part of England before J. S. was troubled with any of us but it is sufficient what is said to the mans light by which carnal men judg of any thing is one thing and the light of Christ Jesus which is spiritual mens guide is another thing E. B. spake of mans light and J.S. foolishly opposes him as if he spake of the light of Christ Jesus and so opposes his own conception And further J. S. asserts That Scripture light is the standing rule for faith and manners so are not immediate revelations and teachings Here he hath set up the Scriptures above the Spirit of God and above the Revelation of Jesus Christ the Saints were led by what the Spiâ—it revealed and taught Christ said he should teach into all truth and they that were the Sons of God were loved by the spirit of God and that was their rule to be led by in their Faith and manners But yet see a Hypocrite J.S. is he that pleads for scripture to be the rule and yet is acting in many things contrary to the scriptures as at large may be instanced neither is in all the scripture the scripture called light but scripture saith Christ is the light Further he saith There is sufficient light in the scripture to guide men to salvation Mark his Doctrine whether he hath not preached another thing than Christ to be the way and whether he hath not made Christ and the blood of Christ of none effect without which no salvation But he saith there is sufficient in the Scripture to lead men to salvation and neither Christ nor his blood is in Scripture let it be moved Further he saith The scripture was given by the spirit for a rule this we desire a proof of by plain scripture and till then we deny it And further he saith The spirit gives out himself by scripture and yet he saith he never said the scripture did give the spirit and this is an absolute contradiction as may be noted so J.S. is taken in the snare contradicting himself in one quarter of a sheet of Paper and hath not at all proved us to be self-contradictors concerning any of these things mentioned by him Further he saith in his 8 th Head That our possessing perfection and quaking after Moses Example cross shins on the other but wherein he doth not shew neither can the honest-minded read any contradiction in it but only it seems J. S. hath set himself to cavel Further he saith We contradict our selves concerning Quaking and trembling from this confession That the same power that made Moses to quake and tremble the same power we witnesse but wherein doth this contradiction appear in these words let honest men try the cause and J. S. be silent And whereas he instances J. P. standing in an evil cause and of I. P. he may be silent whose bloud he or his Generation fought after and now might they well be quiet of him their wills being stifled by drinking his blood as it were but that wicked men must add to their own wickedness till it be fulfilled that they may receive their reward and I. P. was bold as is the children of God and though J. S. would clear himself and his company from what was done to I. P. yet by the effect it appeared that there was enough envy in them towards him and the truth and though his body be in the ground yet the Spirit of the Lord which guided him stands alive a sufficient witness against them and all their cruell and wicked dealing and let J. S. judgement be what it will neither concerning growth of Grace nor forms of Religion nor fruits of the Spirit do we at all contradict the Spirit of God neither doth he prove us in these things whereof he accuseth us in strife and debate except against such as J.S. and the Devils Kingdom neither in emulation hatred scoffs or any of these things which the Lord hath redeemed us from though we be falsly accused in these things as in many other by him and whereas he would prove their preaching in their method Points and Reasons and Uses from the example of the Saints in former ages he falls far short in effecting his extent for he cannot prove that they studied for what they spake nor that in such a way they delivered what they said an hour by a glass c. as the Priests of this age do also if it were they preached in the like manner as the Apostles did yet not by the same spirit but by the spirit of error and for a wrong end that is the thing which makes their manner abominable when as they are not guided with the same Spirit of the Apostles and their preaching in their method of points and particulars is rather an art of preaching by humane policy and not the gift of preaching by the Spirit of God neither do we concerning humility and love contradict our selves but are in humility love towards all men even such as wrongs us we seek no revenge against and herein doth our humility and love appear yet cannot we respect any mans person with hat or knee and that is it which J. S. I suppose is offended with In his 13 th Head concerning Ordinances He charges us with self-contradiction because we say we own praying c. and yet hath given over Family prayer morning and evening and at meals but this is no contradiction for we own praying in the Spirit of God bur do deny it without the Spirit and this is no contradiction he may as well say it was contradiction in Christ to cry against the prayers of the Pharisees and yet to teach his Disciples to pray and to pray himself this is the same cause of ours which he foolishly charges with contradiction and as I have said the prayers of the Wicked we deny and yet doth own