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A54048 A question to the professors of Christianity, whether they have the true, living, powerful saving knowledge of Christ or no? with some queries concerning Christ, and his appearances, his taking upon him our flesh : as also concerning his flesh and blood, and our being formed thereof, and feeding thereon, and an incitation to professors seriously to consider, whether they or we fail, in the true acknowledgment and owning of the Christ which died at Jerusalem : likewise some propositions and considerations concerning the nature of church-worships and ordinances, since the death of the apostles, for the sake of simplicity, which hath been long held captive therein : with the sounding of bowels towards thee, O England : also a faithful guidance to the principle and path of truth, with some sensible experimental questions and answers from the tenth chapter of John / by Isaac Penington ... Penington, Isaac, 1616-1679. 1667 (1667) Wing P1184; ESTC R18236 42,725 54

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body for him to do his Will in all things in and particularly to offer up to him the acceptable Sacrifice for the sins of the whole World Quer. 3. Whether it was not necessary in this respect also that Christ should take upon him our flesh that he might have experience of our temptations and infirmities and become a merciful and faithful High Priest and Intercessor for us Quer. 4. Wherein lay the value and worth of his Sacrifice and of all he did Did it lie chiefly in the thing done or in the Life wherein he did it in that he did it in the pure Faith and in obedience to the Father He became obedient unto death even the death of the Cross and he through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God Quer. 5. What was he for whom the Father prepared a Body and who took it up to do the Will and did the Will in it was he not the Arm of God the Power of God the Saviour and Salvation of God the Jesus and Christ of God Quer. 6. To whom do the Names and Titles Jesus and Christ chiefly in the first place belong do they belong to the Body which was took by him or to him who took the Body The Body hath its Nature and Properties and the eternal Word or Son of God the pure spotless Lamb the Fountain of Innocency its Nature and Properties Now the Query is Which was the appointed Saviour of the Father which was the Anointed of the Father chiefly and in the first place Whether the Body prepared or he for whom the Body was prepared to do the Will and offer up the acceptable Sacrifice in Quer. 7. Which is Christs Flesh and Blood which we are to partake of whereof we are to be formed which we are to eat and drink and which is meat and drink indeed nourishing to life everlasting Is it the flesh and blood of the Body which was prepared for and taken by him wherein he tabernacled and appeared or is it the flesh and blood of him who took tabernacled and appeared in the Body For that which he took upon him was our Garment even the flesh and blood of our Nature which is of an earthly perishing Nature but he is of an eternal Nature and his flesh and blood and bones are of his Nature Now as the Life and Nature which is begotten in his is Spiritual so that which feeds and is the nourishment of it must needs be of a spiritual and eternal Nature Quer. 8. What is the Bread which came down from Heaven Is not the Bread and the Flesh all one Outwardly-visible flesh and blood was not in Heaven nor came down from Heaven but the Bread of Life did come down from Heaven which the heavenly Birth feeds on and lives by For that which redeems that which is Jesus the Saviour came down from Heaven and took upon him a body of flesh here on earth in which he manifested himself as King Priest and Prophet and did the Work appointed him by the Father John 17.1 c. Quer. 9. What was that which saved people outwardly from their outward infirmities and diseases while Christ was on the earth in that Body Was it the Body or the Life Power and Spirit of the Father within the Body and manifested through the Body And can any thing less save inwardly Now that which saves that which hath the Virtue and Power of Salvation in it that the Eye of Faith is to fix upon and not to stick or stop in that through which the Life works it Quer. 10. Who was he that humbled himself that made himself of no reputation that took upon him the form of a Servant and was made in the likeness of men and found in fashion or habit as a man Was it the body of flesh or was it He that was glorified with the Father before the World was And who is to have the honour and exaltation At whose Name is every knee to bow Is not the reward to him who laid down his Glory to take upon him the body of flesh and appear in it that he might honour glorifie and fulfill the Will of his Father Quer. 11. Are not the Children and he of one Is not he and they of the same stock Both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one Heb. 2.11 Is it not from thence that he is not ashamed to call them Brethren even because he finds the Nature Spirit and Life of his Father in them What makes a Child to God Is it not the being begotten of the Father and born of the Spirit And that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit Now mark Have we the denomination and relation with Christ from that which is Spiritual and hath Christ himself the Name from or because of the body of flesh Nay nay the Name Christ was from the anointing which was in the Body which ran into and filled the Vessel It is true the Body in and by the Union partakes with him of his Name but the Name belongs chiefly and most properly to the treasure in the Vessel Quer. 12. What is it to put on Christ or what is the putting on of Christ Is it the putting on of that body of flesh Or the putting on a belief concerning him according to what is said of him in Scripture Or is it not rather a putting on of his Nature his Seed his Spirit his Life wherewith the Souls of those that are born from above are cloathed as the Body is with a Garment Quer. 13. Who was it that said I am the Resurrection and the Life Was it not Christ And what did he say it concerning Did he say it concerning the Body Or did he say it concerning the Power and Virtue of the Father which was in the Body Did he not say it concerning that which had the power of Life in it before it took up the Body and had also the power of Life while it was in the Body yea and could raise up not only other bodies but that also after it had laid it down For after it was laid in the Grave he could raise it up and take it on again as well as he did at first when it was first prepared John 10.17 18. Quer. 14. If I or any one else have felt the saving Arm of the Lord revealed in us If we have felt a measure of the same Life Power and Anointing revealed in our Vessels as was revealed in his Is it not of the same Nature Is it not the same thing Is not Christ the Seed And is not this Seed sown in the heart Now if this Seed spring and grow up in me into a spiritual shape or form though it be but of a Babe is not Christ then formed in me If I be ingrafted into and grow up in it am I not ingrafted into Christ the true Olive-Tree the true Vine and do I not grow up in him And is not this the
the spiritually living are ingrafted As the Father is the Husbandman so is not the Son the Vine And hath not this spiritual this eternal Vine in it juice and sap of an eternal Nature and is not this sap its blood Quer. 28. Is there not a choice Vine to which the Foal and Asses Colt of the Seed of Judah is tyed and are not the Garments and Cloaths of the true Jews washed in the Wine and in the Blood of the Grapes of this Vine Gen. 49.11 Quer. 29. What is that which the earthly Nature slayes and what is the Blood which the earthly Nature shall disclose and the slain which it shall no more cover Quer. 30. What are the Robes which are washed and made white in the Blood of the Lamb and how are they washed and made white therein and what is the Blood of what Nature earthly or spiritual wherein they are washed and made white Quer. 31. What is it to have or how come we to have fellowship with Christ in his death and to suffer and be crucified with him Is it by having our natural Bodies crucified on the same Cross of Wood or some such like one as his Body was crucified on or by having the fleshly Nature crucified subdued and worn out of our Souls Minds Spirits c. by the Power of the Spirit Rom. 8.13 Now if the flesh we are to put off be of such a nature and kind to wit inwardly and spiritually corrupt must not the flesh of Christ which we are to put on instead thereof be of as deep inward and spiritual a Nature What is the flesh whereof we are to be uncloathed before we can be cloathed with Christ Is it outward or bodily And what is Christs flesh we are to put on is that any more outward or bodily then that which we are to put off Quer. 32. Is not the flesh and blood which they that have eternal Life feed on and which nourisheth them up to Life eternal they continuing to feed thereon and not feeding afterwards on strange flesh and strange blood I say is not this flesh and blood Spirit and Life For that is it which profiteth John 6.63 Is it not the flesh and blood of the Word Was not the Word made flesh and did not the Word who was made flesh dwell and appear in a Tabernacle of flesh and cause the Glory of his own divine Flesh to shine through that earthly flesh O read and consider that ye who have stumbled and murmured against the Truth may stumble or murmur no more but now at length receive the pure and pretious Doctrine thereof and so come to witness the fulfilling of that Promise Isa 29.18 v. 24. and praise him who giveth understanding Quer. 33. Is not the true Church flesh of Christs flesh and bone of his bone Is not the false or Antichristian Church flesh of Antichrists flesh and bone of Antichrists bone What is the flesh of the spiritual Whore which is to be stripped naked and burnt with fire Shall ever the Church which is of Christs flesh be stripped naked and burnt with fire Nay doth not his flesh make able to abide the devouring fire and to dwell with the everlasting burnings Quer. 34. What is the pure Milk of the VVord which is milked out to the Babes from the pure Breast and what is the Breast from which it is milked out is it of the flesh of Christ or no Quer. 35. Are not the wicked of the seed and flesh of the Serpent Is not that the Body of flesh of sin of death which is to be put off And are not they who are renewed in spirit of the Seed and Flesh of Christ is not that the Body or Garment of Holiness of Righteousness of Life which is to be put on Quer. 36. Is it not as necessary that the eternal VVord be made flesh inwardly that so the Children may feed on him as it was for him to take on him an outward body of flesh to suffer and die for them and to fulfil all Righteousness both of the Law of the Letter and of the Law of the Spirit in Quer. 37. Is there not that which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt and do not they which dwell there instead of eating Christs Flesh and drinking his Blood put his flesh to pain crucifying it in and to themselves trampling under foot the Son of God and counting the Blood of the Covenant an unholy thing Read the Figure Did not outward Israel suffer in outward Egypt Did not just Lot suffer in Sodom Doth not the spiritual Seed suffer in and by spiritual Egypt Doth not the Flesh of the Holy and just One suffer in and by spiritual Sodom Quer. 38. What is that which the Gentile-Christians who are not Jews inward circumcised in heart and spirit who know not the inward Temple the place of the true Jews worship where they worship the Father in Spirit and Truth but only worship in the outward Court which God hath cast off and left out of his measure Rev. 11.2 I say What is that Holy City which these Gentiles tread under foot forty two months Is it the Church which is of the Flesh and Bones of Christ or no He that knoweth the substance the Seed of the Kingdom the Birth of the Spirit knoweth the Flesh and Blood which is of the Seed And this Flesh is Flesh indeed this Blood is Blood indeed even the Flesh and Blood of the Seeds Nature but the other was but the Flesh and Blood of our Nature which he honoured in taking upon him in which he did the Will in which he offered up the acceptable Sacrifice but yet did not give the honour from his own Flesh and Blood to it For the Flesh and Blood of our Nature was not his own naturally but only as he pleased to take it upon him and make it his But that whereof he formeth us and which he giveth us to eat and drink is the Flesh and Blood of his own Nature And this was it wherein was the Virtue and wherein is the Virtue Life and Power for ever Happy O happy is he who is of it who is taken out of and formed of him as Eve was of Adam and so becomes Flesh of his Flesh and Bone of his Bone Then will he know the Mystery of Life feed on the thing it self and not stumble about appearances and expressions as those that are out of and from the thing it self do through the darkness of their mind and because of their ignorance of the thing spoken of in the Scriptures An Incitation to Professors seriously to consider Whether they or we fail in the true acknowledgment and owning of the Christ which died at Jerusalem WE who are commonly called Quakers being a People whom the Lord hath gathered out of the wandrings out of the many Professions out of the several scattered estates and conditions wherein his Eye pittied us and his love found us out into a
may now know what the Apostles and Evangelists have said concerning his appearance in a body of Flesh concerning his Birth Circumcision Baptism Preaching Doctrine Miracles Death Resurrection Ascention Intercession c. and yet not know him of whom these things are said Yea they may know what is said concerning the Word which was from the beginning and yet not know the Word the Power the Life it self Since the prevailing of the Apostles Testimony the way of the Enemy hath not been directly to deny Christ but to bring men into such a knowledge of Christ as saves not And as the Enemy did own Christ when he appeared in that body of Flesh saying I know thee who thou art the holy One of God So he hath found it for his advantage almost ever since to own that appearance of his So that this he doth not oppose nor mens knowledge and understanding of Scriptures so as to confirm them in this But the Saving knowledge the True knowledge the Living knowledge the powerful knowledge of Truth that he alwayes opposeth for that alone overturns and destroys his Kingdom in man and brings man from out of his reach Now there is a vast difference between knowing the Relations concerning a thing and knowing the thing related of And there is also a great deal of difference between believing the Relations concerning a thing and believing in the thing which is related of Spiritual things cannot be savingly known but in union with them in the receiving of them A man can never really know the Spirit of God by all that can be said concerning it but he must first feel somewhat of it whereby he may truly know it So the Peace the Joy the Life the Power they pass the understanding and a man can never rightly know them by reading or comprehending never so much concerning them but by coming out of himself and travelling thither where they are given and made manifest he may come into acquaintance with them And if the Peace which Christ gives the Joy the Life the Power cannot be thus known by litteral descriptions How can he who is the Fulness of all the Fountain of them all the Treasury of all Perfection in whom are hid all the Riches and Treasures of Wisdom and Knowledge how can he be known by outward and litteral descriptions Now we have travelled through these things We knew formerly what ye know now and we also know now what God hath given us further and what our former knowledge was and what our present knowledge is And this is it which gives us satisfaction Our knowledge is in a Principle wherein we receive our capacity of knowing and wherein the Father from whom the Principle came teacheth us And this is his way of teaching us to wit by making us one with the thing he teacheth Thus we learn Christ by being born of him by putting him on Thus we know his Righteousness his Life his Wisdom his Power by receiving a proportion of them which giveth an ability to discern and acknowledge the fulness And in this we receive the understanding of the Scriptures and know the Seed of the Woman which bruiseth the Serpents head by receiving the Seed by feeling its growth in us and its power over the Enemy Then we know the thing likewise we know the VVoman that brings forth this Seed after the Spirit which is the Jerusalem above and we know also and singly acknowledge the bringing forth of it outwardly after the flesh This Seed we know to be the Seed of Abraham the Seed of David after the Flesh and the Seed of God after the power of the endless life And we are taught of God to give the due honour to each to the Seed of God in the first place to the Seed of David in the second place There was the Seed that wrought the thing which Seed was the Life and the Seed in which he wrought it which was formed into a Vessel like ours but without sin in which the pure Lamb appeared in the pure Power of Life which kept the Vessel pure and so he who was to be the first Fruits had the honour above all his Brethren being anointed with the Oyl of Gladness above his Fellows But we also are born of the same Seed He is formed in us we are formed of him we are as well of his flesh and blood as he was of ours And by being thus formed and feeling him grow up in us and receiving an understanding from him and in him thus we come to know him and to understand the words of Scripture concerning him By feeling and knowing the Lamb in our Vessels we know also what was the Lamb in his Vessel Thus we know things in the certainty and demonstration of Gods Spirit even in the Light which shines from him and in the Life which he begets and we speak of things as they are and as we feel them to be in the true Life which the Spirit of Christ hath begotten in us And we can truly say concerning the Scriptures that now we believe not so much because of the relation of things concerning Christ which we have found in them but because we have seen and received the thing which the Scriptures speak of and find it to be the very thing indeed the very Christ of God the spotless One the living Garment of Righteousness and Salvation wherein God findeth no fault and in which the Soul appears without blame before him And concerning this can we speak words of its Nature words of its Virtue words of its Life Power and Righteousness which that which is of the flesh cannot hear but that which is born of God naturally owneth and understandeth Why so Because it knoweth the nature of the thing and receiveth them in the savour thereof Can Life deny Life Can the Birth of Life deny that which springs out of the same Womb No no. The Children which are born of Wisdom do justifie Wisdom in its several sproutings forth and appearances but that which denies it is a birth after the Letter a birth after the litteral and outward knowledge of things a birth of the comprehending Wisdom that indeed reproacheth and blasphemeth the incomprehensible wisdom in its incomprehensible wayes and would restrain life to what they apprehend or can comprehend by the Letter concerning it And this may be a great evidence to Professors that they know not Christ indeed Christ in his Nature Spirit Life and Power because they speak not of him as Persons who feel the thing and speak from the present sence of it and acquaintance with it but only as persons that bring forth a Notion they have received into their understandings And yet they fail therein also for they speak not of Christ according as the Scriptures hold him forth compared one with another but as they have grosly apprehended concerning him from some Scriptures as the Jews outward did For the Scriptures speak not only of a Body but
also of him that appeared in the Body nor only of bodily flesh blood and bones but also of such flesh and bones whereof Christ and his Church consist He is Christ say the Scriptures who is one with the Father who came from the Father in whom the Father was and who was in the Father so said Jesus of himself lifting up his eyes to Heaven and praying to the Father for his Disciples and the Children whom the Father had given him more then once in that seventeenth Chapter of John Yea he is Christ whom a man cannot see but he must see the Father also and whom whosoever seeth the Father seeth who was before Abraham was whom no man could know whence he was even as no man can know whence the Father is Christ granted the Jews that they knew him and whence he was as to his Body and yet for all that he was the Christ who was to come whom no man knew from whence he was What was that Christ called me speaking to Philip Hast thou not known me Philip Hast thou not seen me What dost thou know me after the flesh after the body Dost thou take that for me Have I been so long with you and do ye know me no better then so The body is from below the body is like one of yours only sanctifyed by the Father and preserved without sin but I am the same Spirit Life and Being with the Father We are one Substance one pure power of Life and we cannot be divided but he that sees one must needs see both and he that knows one must needs know both This is the Lamb of God which John bare witnesse of which he said was before him John 1.15 which the body was not Now Friends if ye have this living spiritual knowledge if ye hold it in him that is true then own and acknowledge it as it is expressed in the Scriptures and as God hath now brought it forth in his People that ye may manifest your selves to that which is of God that ye are of him There is an understanding and wisdom of man and there is a Witness of God which Witness gives true Judgment Man at best judgeth but according as things appear to him from the Scriptures but the Witness judgeth of the things of God in the demonstration of the Spirit according as they are felt and known to be in him But if ye have not this knowledge but have long laid out your money and labour for that which is not bread nor can yeeld the true satisfaction O come to the waters and receive that which is given freely without money and without price O sell all for the Pearl for the knowledge which is of Life for the knowledge which is Life I am the Way the Truth and the Life saith Christ this is life Eternal to know And wait to feel the Rock laid as a Foundation in you even the Seed of God the Life of Christ the Spirit of Christ revealed in you and your Souls born of it and built upon it O that ye could come out of your own understandings that ye might feel and receive the love of my Heart and know the travel of my Bowels for you that ye might be born of the Truth and know and receive it as it is in Jesus and as it is felt in the Spirit and in its own pure Power Now a little further to remove Scruple and Prejudices out of the minds of such as sometimes have been touched with the power of Truth and have had the Witness of God reached to in their hearts but afterwards the Enemy hath raised mists and cast blocks in their way stirring up in them hard thoughts against us as if we denyed what the Scriptures affirm in this thing and indeed in effect that Christ which died at Jerusalem and set up a natural Principle within instead thereof To remove this out of the minds of the honest-hearted who in the guidance of God may light on this Paper I shall open my heart nakedly herein 1. We do own that the Word of God the only begotten of the Father did take up a Body of the flesh of the Virgin Mary who was of the Seed of David according to the Scriptures and did the Will of the Father therein in holy obedience unto him both in life and death 2. That he did offer up the flesh and blood of that Body though not only so for he poured out his Soul he poured out his Life a Sacrifice or Offering for sin do not O do not stumble at it but rather wait on the Lord to understand it for we speak in this matter what we know a Sacrifice unto the Father and in it tasted death for every man and that it is upon consideration and through Gods acceptance of this Sacrifice for sin that the sins of Believers are pardoned that God might be just and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus or who is of the Faith of Jesus 3. What is attributed to that Body we acknowledge and give to that Body in its place according as the Scripture attributeth it which is through and because of that which dwelt and acted in it But that which sanctified and kept the Body pure and made all acceptable in him was the Life Holiness and Righteousness of the Spirit And the same thing that kept his Vessel pure it is the same thing that cleanseth us The value which the natural flesh and blood had was from that in its coming from that in its acting in that in its suffering through that Yea indeed that hath the virtue that is it which is of an unchangeable nature which abideth for ever which is pure and maketh pure for ever and it is impossible for a man to touch it but he must feel cleansing by it Now this living Virtue and Power man was shut out from by the fall but through the true knowledge of the death of Christ the way is made open to it again and man brought to it to be baptized washed cleansed sanctified fitted for and filled with life so that this is it that doth the thing this is it from whence Christ had his own flesh and blood for we are taught both by the Spirit and by the Scriptures to distinguish between Christs own flesh and that of ours which he took up and made his which flesh and blood we feed of in the Spirit which they cannot feed on which serve at the outward Tabernacle nor they neither which know onely the outward body but they only that feed in the Spirit Now of this thing we might speak yet more clearly and plainly could men hear our words But if we have spoken to you earthly things in Parables and Figures suitable to your understanding and ye believe not How shall ye believe if we speak to you heavenly things if we should tell you plainly of the Father in whom is all the life of the Son and all the virtue of