to mock gain say and abhorr all religioÌ„ obtruded to the people without assurance of God his word hauing nether respect to antiquitie to multitude to authoritie nor estimatioÌ„ of them that mantean the same The Idoles of the Gentiles were more ancient then is the Idole in the masse There worshippers manteners and patrons were mo in multitude greater in authoritie and more excellent before the world then euer was any that bowed to that Idole Isa 4â— And yet feared not the Prophet Isayas to mock and iest them yea sharplie to rebuke them in these wordes They are dung backward with shame they shal be ashamed whosoeuer trusteth in a grauen ymage and that say to the molten ymage Isa 44. ye are our Gods All the makers of graueÌ„ ymages are vaine there pleasing thinges shall not proffet them For they themselues are witnesses to there Idoles that they nether se nor vnderstaÌ„d any thing and therefore they shal be ashamed who then sayeth he shall forge a God or a molten ymage that profiteth nothing behold all those that are of the fellowship thereof shal be confounded for the workmen them selues are men let them all be gathered together and stand vp yet they shall feare and be confouÌ„ded together And when he hath fully painted forth there vanitie he concludeth They haue not vnderstand for God hath shut vp there eyes Blindnes and induration is Gods iust punishmeÌ„t for Idolaters that they can not see and hartes that they can not vnderstand none considereth in his hart I haue brunt half of it euen in the fyre and haue baken bread also vpon the coalles thereof I haue rosted fleshe earen it and shall I make the residew thereof an abomination shall I bow to the stock of a tree c. Thus I say we see how that the Prophet doeth triumph against the Idolaters in mocking of there madnes and paintiÌ„g forth of there vanitie Who then can iustlie be offended against me or any other albeit by all meanes possible we let the blind world see the vanitie of that Idole considering that by it hath the glorie of God bene more obscured then euer it was by any Idole in the earth For to none was neuer absolutlie giuen Let the Papists consider the name nature power and honor of God but to that Idole allone If any think that the Scriptures of God giue vnto them patrocinie ether to beleue Christes naturall body to be there after the wordes of consecration as they cal them ether yet to beleue that Christ Iesus in his last Supper did offer vnto God his Father his body and blood vnder the formes of bread and wine he is miserablie deceaued for the Scripture maketh no mention of conuersion or transubstanciation of bread in Christes naturall bodie but witnesseth that bread remaneth bread yea eueÌ„ when the faithfull receaue the same 1. Cor 10 as the Apostle affirmeth in these wordes The bread that we break is it not the coÌ„munication of Christes bodie the cup of blissing which we blisse is it not the coÌ„munion of the blood of Christâ—â— we many are one bread and one body because we are all partakers of one bread And after he sayeth 1. Cor. 11. as ofâ— as ye shall eat of this bread and drink of this cup ye shew the Lordes death till he come Let therefore a man try himself and so let him eat of this bread and drink of this 〈◊〉 c. By these wordes we may clearlie vnderstand what iudgement the Apostle had of the substaÌ„ce of that Sacrament euen in the verie action of the same And as touching that foolish opinion that Christ Iesus did offer his body vnto God his Father vnder the formes of bread wine c. which the Papistes make the ground of there masse what suffrage that euer it hath by man of God nor of his word it hath none Ioh. 3. The Scripture dooth witnes that God the Father gaue his Sone vnto the world that the world might be saued by him and that Iesus Christ did offer him self ones vnto God Heb. 10 and 9. for the destructioÌ„ of sinne and for to take away the sinnes of many but that euer he did offer him self vnder the formes of bread and wine as the Papistes alledge the holy Goste doeth no where make mention And therefore the faithfull not onely may reiect it as the dreame and inuention of man but also are bouÌ„d to abhor detest it as a doctrine broght in by Satan to deceaue suche as delyte not in the veritie of God to whose 〈◊〉 and voice are the faithfull onely â—ouâ—â— M. Quintyne that great patron of the masse in this subsequent conference Maister Quintynes affirmatiue aâ—â—â—ieds for the probation of his affirmatiue Christ Iesus did offer sayeth he vnto God his Father in his last Supper his body and blood vnder the formes of bread and wine c. For the probation hereof I say he adduces the fact of Melchisedec that broght forth bread and wine Gen. 14. c. But how sone he is ashamed thereof and how vnable he is to proue that which he alledgeth to be moste easie to be prouen the diligent reader may esâ—y For perceauing him self unable euer to proue Luk the ressonig of the thrid day that ether Christe Iesus or yet Melchisedec did make any suche oblation as he the fond Papistes do imagine He riÌ„neth straight to his fortres shameles schift O sayeth M. Quintyne I haue hurt my own cause I was caried away with zeal c. It apperteaned not vnto me to proue any thing but to defend my artickles as they are written If M. O. and his collatâ—ralles will resolue me an dout then will I giue my iudgement whether he oght to proue or to defend onely My dout is this whether are M. Quintynes artickles necessarie to be beleued to SaluatioÌ„ or are they suche as without danger of damnation we may dout of them If we may dout of them and not offend God then assuredly I think that M. Quintyne may hold them for treuth til that the falshead of them be manifestly declared But if they be suche as we are bound to beleue as a treuth of God and an doctrine necessarie to Saluation then is M. Quintyne bound to shaw to vs that God hath prononced them and not man which if he be not able to do and that in plaine and expressed wordes then must we reiect them as deceauable Ioh. 10. fals accordiÌ„g as we be taucht by our maister Christ Iesus saying My sheip heare my voice but a stranger they will not heare If M. Q. will not be reputed an fals Prophet one that teacheth lies in the name of God and so expone him self to Gods here displeasure he may propone no doctrine to the Church of God the assurance whereof he bringeth not from the mouth of God If M. Q. were brawling in the scooles or bragging of
abbote wes soir offended at the first but whil the said Iohn wold in no wise be stayed he and his gaue audience which being ended the abbote said be my faith it is weil said And so after that he had spoken certane wordes he commanded one of his Scribes to read openly his protestation as followeth ☞ ✚ ☜ Heir followes the coppie of the ressoning quhilk wes betuix the commendator of Crosraguell and Iohn Kiâ—â—â— in Mayboile concerning the masse in the yeare of God 1562. M. Quintyne PErceauing the great perturbation controuersie and debeate quhilk is stirred vp laitlie in all Christen realmes for the cause of religion honorable auditor and al 's being remembred of the terrible seÌ„tence conteined in scriptures toward all negligent pastors in this dangerous tyme. I was constrayned in conscience notwithstanding my great inhabilitie as it pleased God to support my imperfectiones to giue instruction to all those coÌ„mitted to my cure within my Kirk of Kirkoswald how they shoulde be able to be enarmed against all wicked and decetfull preachers quhilk gaes about not knowing quherâ—fra they come nor by quhaâ— ordre And to the effect that our deirlie-beloued flock micht haue bene the more able to haue bene warre with all fals wicked vngodly doctrine Amang other godlie lessones conteined in my exhortation I inserit certane catholick artickles hauing their warrand of the scriptures of almighty God according to the doctrine of the halie catholicke Kirk and burdyned my conscience in the presence of God the saides artickles to be godlie necessarie and expedient to be beleued by all good christiane men Iohn Knox vpon sonday the aucht day of September came vnto the said Kirk of Kirkoswald being certefied that I might not be present and as I was enformed to make impugnatioÌ„ to my saides artickles wherethrough I wrote to him certifying that I wold affirm the saides artickles and in speciall the artickle concerning the masse against him or quhasoeuer pleases to make impugnation there to vpoÌ„ aucht dayes warning the place being in any hous of Mayboyle the nomber tuentie on either syde without any further conuocation Shortlie we being agreed by writing of the day hour and place quhilk was the 28. day of this instant September I am coÌ„men conforme to my writing to affirme the saides artickles as they are written beginning at the artickle concerning the masse Protesting alwayes that I come not to dispute any of my artickles as maters of faith religion disputable coÌ„sidering there is ordre taken alreadie by the Kirk of God as I wold say be the generall councelles deulie coÌ„uened quhilk represents the vniuersal Kirk of almighty God to whom it apperteines to take ordre quhensoeuer question rises for maters concerning faith and religion but according to the doctrine of S. Peter and al 's S. Paule to render my dett and duetie to all that inquires therfore and after that maner to abyde gentle and formall reasoning of all that pleases as may stand to the glorie of God and the instruction of the auditor And to the effect foresaid that we may come to formal ressoning as to ward the artickle coÌ„cerning the masse I wil ground me vpon the Scriptures of almightie God to be my warrand coÌ„forme to my first coÌ„firmation quhlik was gathered vpon the priesthead and oblation of Melchisedec and was presentet Èou in Februare and as Èit has gotteÌ„ no answer notwithstanding that it was of sober quantitie sextene or 20 lynes Wherfore please you to receaue this same confirmation yet as of before for to be the beginning of our formall reasoning concerning the artickle of the masse in maner as after followes The Psalmest al 's the Apostle S. Paule affirmes our Saluiour to be an priest for euer according to the ordure of Melchisedec quha made oblation and Sacrifice of bread and wine vnto God as the Scripture plainly teaches vs now will I reason on this maner Read all the Euangell wha pleases he sall find in no place of the Euangel quhere our Saluiour vses the priesthead of Melchisedec declaring him self to be an priest after the ordor of Melchisedec but in the latter Supper quhere he made oblation of his precious body blude vnder the forme of bread and wine prefigurate by the oblation of Melchisedec then are we compelled to affirme that our Sauiour made oblation of his bodie blude in the latter Supper or els he was not an priest according to the ordor of Melchisedec quhilk is expres against the Scripture Iohn Knox. Iohne Knox protested that he mght haue the coppie of this formar writting giuen in by my Lord in writ to answer therto more fullie at greater leaser which was deliuered vnto him Quintene And in lykemaner my Lorde protested that he might haue place to reply if he thoght good The answer of Iohn Knox to the Abbottes oration giuen in by the Abbote before the disputation in writ Iohn Knox. WHensoeuer it pleaseth God of his great mercy to shew the light and to blow the trompet of his true word vnto the blind vnthankful world after darknes and loÌ„g silence it hath the streÌ„gth to moue and walken not onelie the chosen but also the reprobate but in diuerse maner for the one it walkeneth from ignorance error supersticion vanitie and horrible corruption to walk before there God in knowledge veritie true seruing of his maiestie and in puritie of life But the other it walkeneth from there formar â—iueth and yet to there further coÌ„demnation For suche as in the time of darknes did liue as men without God at the sound of the trompet calling them to repentance addes and ioynes to there format corruption blasphemie against God and against his eternal veritie For perceauing that the light discouereth there turpitud and that the trompet wil not suffer them to slepe as that they did before without open reproche Isay 5. they shame not to call light darknes darknes light good euil and euil good And to bring that to pas to wit that the light shine no more doeth the whole baÌ„d of suche as oppone them selues to the veritie of God so earnestlie trauell that stugardes and effeminat men become actiue and strong Souldioures to the Deuil The exemples hereof are in Scriptures so coÌ„mon that they nead no long rehearsal For what was the estate of the fals Prophetes and Preastes in the dayes of Isayas Ieremie Ezechiel Micheas and the rest of the true Prophetes of God What care I say they which by ordinarie successioÌ„ oght to haue teached the people of God tooke ouer there charges the complaintes attestations of the true Prophetes vsed against them do witnes Isay 56. Read the place In the which they call them dum dogs blind watchemen suche as regarded nothing but ambition tyarous cheare and lustes of the flesh Ezeh 34 Pastors that fedd not the flock but fedd them selues Finally they terme them Iere. 6. men from the
to the right institution of Iesus Christe in some cace which ones wes woid bothe of those ceremonies and that damnable opinion M. Quintyne I am not cumin heir to mantein the opiniones of meÌ„ but to defend the institution of Iesus Christ conform to my artickle Iohn Knox. It appeareh to me yet againe This is a dowble cannoÌ„ against the messe that my Lorde is willing to defend no thing but the werray institutioÌ„ of Christ Iesus And I haue alreadie affirmed that neither the name of the masse the ceremonies vsed in the same the opinion conceaued of it neither yet that power which the actor vsurneth hath either the institution or assurance of Iesus Christe M. Quintyne I am willing to defend my diffinition concerning the messe as I haue diffined it and takes Goddes word to my warrand My lord fled the Barras for the first and as to the ceremonies actor and all the rest fall defend God willing to be aggreable with Goddes word all throuch abundantlie as tyme and place sal serue beginning first at the substance and effect Iohn Knox. I answer that albeit in my iudgement the conscience of man oght first to haue bene sett at libertie yet hoping that my Lorde wil be coÌ„tent according to his promes that the name ceremonies and the rest of the accidents of the masse suffer the tryal by the worde of God I am content shortlie to enter in the bodie of the mater And desireth the difinition to be resumed M. Quintyne Let my Lord remember his promes I promes before this honorable auditor to defend that all coÌ„tened in the action of the messe to be aggreable with Goddes word prouiding alwayes we gang to the substance The difinition being resumed Iohn Knox answered Your lordship is not ignorant that in euerie difinition there oght to be Genus which I take your lordship here maketh this term Sacrificium but because the term is generall and in the Scriptures of God is diuersly taken therefore it must be broght to a certane kinde For in the Scriptures there be sacrifices called EVCHARISTICA that is of thankes giuing The mortification of our bodies and the obedience that we giue to God in the same is also called Sacrifice Prayer inuocation of the name of God hath also the same name within the Scriptures Liberalitie toward the poore is also so termed But there is one Sacrifice which is greatest and moste of all called Propiciatorium which is that Sacrifice whereby satisfaction is made to the iustice of God being offended at the sinnes of man c. Now I desire of my Lord that he appoint vnto the masse whiche of these Sacrifices best pleaseth him M. Quintyne Quhat Èe mein be the Sacrifice Propiciatorium presentlie I will not dispute But I tak the sacrifice vpon the croâ—â— to be the onelie Sacrifice of redemption and the Sacrifice of the masse to be the Sacrifice of coÌ„memoration of Christs death and passion Iohn Knox. So farre as I can conceaue of my Lordes answer he maketh no Sacrifice Propiciatorie Heir are mo cannons theÌ„ one in the messe which is the chiefhead which I intend to impung For as for the coÌ„memoration of Christes death and passion that I grant and publictlie do confesse to be celebrat in the right vse of the Lordes Sâ—â—pper which I denie the messe to be M. Quintyne It is Èour deutie according to formall proceiding to impung my warrand If this be shifting or not let men iudge quhilk I haue chosen to defend my diffinition be and artickle euen as it is writtin Iohn Knox. Protesting that this mekle is win that the Sacrifice of the masse being denied by me to be a Sacrifice Propiciatorie for the sinnes of the quick and the dead Let men now iudge whitther the messe gat a wond or not according to the opinion thereof before conceaued hath no patron at this preseÌ„t I am content to procede M. Quintyne I protest that he hes win nothing of me as Èit and referres it to black and quhite contened in our writing Iohn Knox. I haue openlie denied the masse to be an Sacrifice Propiciatorie for the quick Note c. and the defence thereof is denied And therefore I referre me vnto the same iudges that my Lorde hath clamed M. Quintyne Èœe may deny quhat Èe pleis for all that Èe deny I tak not presentlie to impung bot quhair I began thair wil I end Shift on that is to defend the messe conforme to my artickle Iohn Knox. Seing that neither the name the action the opinion nor the actor of the masse can be defended for this present I wold glaidly knowe what I should impung M. Quintyne All aboue rehearsed can be defended and salbe defended Godwilling I did nothing but as my lord commaÌ„ded and quhair Èe are glaid to knaw quhat Èe sould impung apperanlie that sould be na newinges to Èow for I certifie Èow Èe sould impung my warraÌ„d alledged for defence of my diffinition and artickle Iohn Knox. If be your warrand Haue at your ground ye vnderstand the oblation made in bread and wine by Melchisedec I plainly deny that Melchisedec made any oblation or Sacrifice of bread and wine vnto God and desires the text to be iudge M. Quintyne It is Èour pairt to impung and myne to defend for I am the defender and salbe Godwilling Iohn Knox. Can I impung more plane then when I denie your ground M. Quintyne I say the denying of the ground is na proper impugnation Iohn Knox. Your lordships ground is that Melchisedec is the figure of Christe in that Let men iudge now if my lords ground for the messe be not shaken that he did offer vnto God bread and wine and therefore that it behoued Iesus Christe to offer in his latter supper his bodie and blood vnder the formes of bread and wine I answer to your ground yet againe that Melchisedec offered neither bread nor wine vnto God And therefore it that ye wold thereupon conclude hath no assurance of your grouÌ„d M. Quintyne Preue that Iohn Knox. Whether that the probatioÌ„ of a negatiue should be deuolued vpon me especially when I haue denied your chief ground I am content the learned iudge M. Quintyne Moued throuch feruor of the tryall of the treuth of Goddes worde I refuse logik captious cauillationis for the present not perchance for ignorance bot that we tyne not tyme Gather what is spoken to finnish and establis our godlie pretence for the ease and quietnes of the conscience of the noble men heir present Iohn Knox. I haue els protested that I abhor all cauillationes and yet againe declares vnto your lordship that in my iudgement it is the way moste succinct that your lordship proue your own grouÌ„d that is that Melchisedec offered vnto God bread and wine which I denie M. Quintyne I tak the text to be my warrand and ground Iohn Knox. The text being red
counsell deulie indicted and conuened But where that he compareth the doctrine of the forenamed with the damnable heresie of Arrius I wold lykewise haue wished vnto his lordship greater foresight in so graue a mater For howsoeuer the Arrians appeared to abouÌ„d in testimonies of Scriptures without all ground indistinctlie coÌ„gested and that because they made no diffreence betuix the two natures in Iesus Christe Let my lorde accuse before he coÌ„paiâ— but did foolishlie appropriat to the Godhead that which did onelie aperteane to the manlie nature yet think I that my lord shall neuer be able by plaine Scripture to impung any chief head ether affirmed or denyed in doctrine of saluatioÌ„ by the foresaides persons lyke as did the godly and learned in there ages the foresaid damnable herisie To the last I haue alreadie promised to answer to my Lordes argumeÌ„t in writ and therefore oght not to be burdened with it now especiallie because it is without our formar ground and doeth not properlie aperteane to the cause And yet therefore now last for conclusion that we shal not be compelled continually to repeat on thing I desyre my lord according to his deutie and reason of disputation Heir my lord stayed for answer offerred to me a book to bring forth his probation of his two formar groundes be me plainly denyed This conference being ended for this tyme my Lorde presentlie did rise for trouble of body and then Iohn Knox did shortlie resume the principall groundes And because the noblemen heir assembled were altogether destitute of all ê“uision bothe for hors and man the said Iohn humblie required the foresaid Lord that it wold please him to go to Air where that better easiment migh be had for all estates Which because my Lord vtterlie refused the said Iohn desired when that the said conference should be ended My Lorde did promes that vpon licence purchased Whither I haue so done or nor mo then them selues can witnes of the Quenes maiestie and her honorable counsell that he wold coÌ„peir in Edinburgh and there in there presence finish the said conference The said Iohn did promes to trauel with the secret counsel that the said licence might be obteined And desired the foresaid Lorde to do the lyke with the Quenes maiestie whereupon the said Iohn Knox took instruments and documents M. Quintyne At the conclusion of our ressoning The answer wes giuen before so that it apperteaned not to me to proue my interpretatioÌ„ but it appertened to my lord to proue that melchisedec offerred c. But that can not my lord vnderstand I gaif Iohn Knox ane argument in writ desiring him that he wald iustifie his opinion be expres testimonie of Scripture or ony apperance thereof Quhairto the said Iohn required tyme to gif answer and the tyme micht nawise serue of farder ressoning for sic causes as ar comprehended in the said Iohn Knox writing And as toward his desyre of me to Air treulie it was the thing that I micht not presentlie coÌ„modiously do Bot alwayes I will copeir before ye Quenes grace and sic as hit grace plesis to take to be auditors to defend the saides artickles and in special the artickle concerning the messe as thay ar written quâ—en and quhair it be hir grace plesure swa that the habilitie of my bodie will serue ony wise as I hope to God it sall to quhom be praise glorie and honor for euer Crosraguell The answer to my Lordes last argument proponed by him in writ the last day of disputation The argument is this M. Quintyne WHatsumeuer opinion is conceaued of the Scriptures of almichty God hauand na expres testimonie nor apperance of the samin is vtterlie to be refused as sayes Iohn Knox him self Bot swa it is that Iohn Knox a win opinion coÌ„ceaued or contracted of the Scripture concerning the bringing furth of bread and wine be Melchisedec to refresh or gratifie Abraham and his werie company is not expresly conteined in the Scripture nor hes na apperance of the samin thairfore it falâ—â— wis weiâ— that it is allâ—terlie be his awin iudgement to be refused Iohn Knox. Yf I should grant vnto you my Lorde your whole argument I should but declare my self ignorant of the art and â—â—â—lyndful of my owne affirmation but yet had ye prouen nothing of your intent The chief question and controuersie betuix you and me is not whether that my interpretation of that place which 〈◊〉 your instance and 〈…〉 not but whether that Melchisedec the figure of Christe did offer vnto God bread wine whiche ye haue affirmed and haue laid it to be the ground and cause why it behoued Christe Iesus to haue made oblation of his bodie and blood vnder the formes of bread and wine in his latter Supper Which bothe I denyed So that it rests to you to proue that Melchisedec the figure of Christ did offer vnto God bread and wine c. And apperteines not vnto me to proue my opinion nor interpretation For supposing that my opinion coÌ„ceaued of that place were to be reiected as ye are neuer able to proue it to â—e yet is your affirmatiue neuer the better prouen for if ye will conclude it wes not broght forth to refresh Abraham which yet is not prouen ergo it wes broght forth to be offered vnto God babes will mock you and send you againe to your logick But yet my Lord with your leaue I must come nerar you and say that the maior or first part of your argument is fals and that ye falsly alledge vpon me that which I neuer spak nor ment Read the whole conference betuix you and me and ye shall not find that I haue simple affirmed that all opinion of man conceaued of the Scriptures is vtterlie to be reiected onles the same be prouen by the manifest worde of God For I am not ignorant that some interpretatioÌ„s ar tollerable yea and may be to the edification of the Church althogh they do not fully expres the minde of the holie Goste in that place But I haue affirmed and yet affirmes that nether the authoritie of the Church the determination of the counsell nor the opinion of the doctor is to be receaued in matters of faith in the doctrine concerning our saluation onles the same be prouen by the expres word of God And therfore my Lord with your leaue I must say that ether wilfully or els by some ouersight ye haue omitted bothe in the maior in the minor of your argument that which should haue bene the cause and assurance of your conclusion For thus ye oght to haue reasoned Whatsoeuer opinion is conceaued of the Scripture of almightie God concerning faith and the doctrine of Saluation hauing no expres testimonie of the same is to be reiected But so it is that Iohn Knox owne opinion concerning the bringing forth of bread and wine by Melchisedec is a matter concerning faith and the doctrine of our Saluation