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A09287 Rhemes against Rome: or, The remoouing of the gagg of the new Gospell, and rightly placing it in the mouthes of the Romists, by the Rhemists in their English translation of the Scriptures. Which counter-gagg is heere fitted by the industrious hand of Richard Bernard ... Bernard, Richard, 1568-1641. 1626 (1626) STC 1960; ESTC S101681 240,340 338

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the buriall of In ours Chap. 4. 17. the iust man but doe not eate and drinke thereof with sinners Answ 1. This booke is Apocryphal and therefore of no such credit as to end a Controuersie Secondly here is not one word of Purgatory Thirdly nor any mention of prayers for the dead by which they inferre though vnsoundly Purgatorie Fourthly this Feast was for the comfort of the liuing sorrowing for the dead as is cleere out of Ier. 16. 7. and not for any thing touching the soules departed Fiftly the name of Iust man is against the conceit of being in Purgatorie for the iust shall goe into life euerlasting Mat. 25. 46. The soules of the iust are in the hand of God and torment shall not touch them saith the booke of Wisedome chap. 3. 1. Esai 4. 4. The Lord shall cleanse the filth of the Daughters of Sion and shall wash the bloud of Ierusalem out of the midst thereof in the spirit of iudgement and spirit of heate First these words are wholly Metaphoricall and not properly spoken to be taken after the letter Secondly he speakes here not of veniall sinnes lyable to Purgatorie but of mortall sinnes set out vnder filth and bloud Thirdly this cleansing was to be in the midst of Ierusalem was Purgatorie in it Esai 9. 18. For impietieis kindled as a fire it shall deuoure Bryer and Thorne Answ 1. This speaketh not of Purgatorie but of impietie and the nature thereof But the Gagger did well to take impietie for Purgatorie for it is an impious conceit and Purgatorie can as truely purge sinne as impietie it selfe and both alike Secondly here is not a speaking of fire but onely by way of similitude kindled as a fire and not properly meant of any materiall fire Thirdly they say Purgatorie fire is but a purging and not a deuouring fire but here the Prophet speakes of deuouring Fourthly Purgatorie fire deuoures not Bryers and Thornes and if they expound these of sinnes then are they not veniall for bryers and thornes are the curse on the earth and therefore if they set out sinnes they must note out cursed sinnes Fiftly the Prophet speaketh of Gods wrath which he would powre out against the people then aliue in those dayes for their wickednesse as the words before from verse 13. and after this text verse 19. doe euidently shew Thus Ierome Haymo and other take to be the meaning Math. 3. 11. Hee shall baptize you with the holy Ghost and with fire Answ A man would iudge the Gagger a very Goose in citing this for Purgatorie but that Bellarmine produced it before him I answer First if fire be here Purgatory then Christ baptized with the holy Ghost and with Purgatorie Did he so Secondly let them allegorize how they will the absurdities arising are so great as no reasonable iudgement will rest thereupon For almost euery thing in the text ouerthrowes this feigned Purgatorie prison I. Agree This being done preuents going to this prison of Purgatorie For he is cast in for not agreeing But all the godly who onely are subiect to goe into Purgatory and not the wicked haue made their agreement with God by Christ who hath satisfied for them procured for them remission of sinnes and made an atonement to God for them Rom. 5. 10 11. Therefore by this text none that are in Christ goe into this prison and so none at all for the Reprobate goe to Hell This Purgatorie prison is therefore a babish Bugbeare a place for no body II. With thine Aduersarie This is diuersly expounded but take it which way they will it serues not for Purgatorie First some make him the Deuill But with this Aduersary we may not agree but must euer c. Iam. 4. 7. And what hath the Deuill to doe with Purgatorie Secondly some say he is God If so First he is agreed with as before is shewed so as by him wee cannot be cast into Purgatorie iustly Secondly who is the Magistrate to whom God leadeth vs Luk. 12. 58 Is any aboue God that he needs to seeke iustice at the hands of another Cannot hee right himselfe Thirdly but where reade we that God is called an Aduersarie to his children We reade the Deuill to be our Aduersarie 1. Pet. 5. and the man of sinne the Romish Antichrist 2. Thes 2. 4. but where is God so called Fourthly if hee be in casting of his into Purgatorie for their veniall sinnes then are veniall sinnes iniurious to God which they deny but if they were not God would be their Aduersarie for such sinnes not being reconciled till they had made him satisfaction Thirdly some make this Aduersarie the Law but if the law be he then veniall sinnes are the breach of the law and so become mortall For the law curseth euery one that obeyeth not all things therein Deut. 27. Neither doth the law send them to Purgatorie but as accursed to Hell Yet can it not thus doe with such as be in Christ for hee was made vnder the Law to redeeme vs from the curse thereof Gal. 4. 3 4. III. Quickly whilest thou art in the way with him The way here is either good or bad Not bad for how can God whom Bellarmine makes this Aduersarie walke with him that hee is an Aduersarie to in an ill way If a good way how is it that he and the offending partie should continue at odds and he be his Aduersarie in a good way IV. Lest at any time to wit in this life being in the way the Aduersarie deliuer thee to the Iudge Who may this Iudge be Betweene God and vs there is no Vmpire or Dayes-man Iob 9. 33. Christ indeed is Iudge but first hee sits not yet to iudge but at the last Day as yet hee sits to make intercession for his people to God to reconcile God to them Secondly when Christ is Iudge he shall reward all the godly he deliuers them not to the Gaoler as the Iudge here doth And thirdly this Aduersarie deliuers the offender to this Iudge to bee punished but God the Father drawes such as he will saue to Christ Christ therefore is not this Iudge And who he may be else let the Gagger tell vs for other Iudge of men before God there is none after this life V. And the Iudge deliuer thee to the Gaoler or Officer In this Allegorie the Iudge is last except they will say it is conscience But will God deliuer his seruants ouer to the worme of conscience at their death This were to send them not to Purgatorie but to Hell where this worme dyeth not And if the Iudge be Conscience I pray them tell vs who then is the Officer subiect to Conscience If they say The Officer is the Deuill or some one of his wicked angels who can beleeue it For will either God or Christ permit Deuils to carry soules to Purgatorie Or is it some good Angell Good Angels carrie soules into Abrahams bosome Luk. 16. 22. and not into Purgatorie
the ground Let them proue to vs by Gods owne voice as here that their Images are holy and that Gods presence is in them And yet for all that will not this procure adoration to them no more then Moses adored the earth Fourthly this place if Images were holy should rather keep vs from them then make vs come to them For it is said Approach not or come not hither loose off thy shooes from thy feet for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground It s therefore rather against going to Images then to goe to worship them Ador●●●e the footstoole of his feet Vnderstood say they of the Arke 1. Chron. 28. 2. Which was worshipped of the Iewes in regard of the Images set vpon it Answ Vnderstanding this footstoole of the Arke as they say it will helpe nothing their worship of Images For first the Arke was of Gods own appointment to be made for manner matter and end Exod. 25. 9. but so bee not their Images Secondly the Arke is called his footstoole But Images are not so called neither claimeth he them for his Thirdly God promised his presence with the Arke Exod. 25. 22. But where is his promise to be with their Images Fourthly the Arke was not an Image What is this then to an Image Fiftly the Arke was in the most holy place into which none could enter but the High Priests Therefore the people could not adore it but a farre off as being in the out-Court without any sight thereof Now their Images are neere and in the peoples view and not only where the High Priest of Rome comes If they will haue Images as the Arke then let his High Priestship keepe them in his most holy Chappell for himselfe and let them be for him only as the most Holy was for the high Priest Sixtly by the Arkes being in so remote a place its cleere that the words must be translated Adore yee towards his footstoele as in 1. King 8. 44. Pray towards the holy Citie and the house which hee had chosen And then the Arke was not adored but God it being the signe of Gods presence before which they worshipped 1. Sam. 1. 19. Seuenthly if it was worshipped because of the Images vpon it then was it only worshipped in the Sanctum Sanctorum For there the Cherubims were spred ouer it and not elsewhere and then onely the High Priest adored it for he onely saw the Images ouer it And then this Text seemeth to speake not to all but to him What is this to the peoples worshipping of Images Eighthly and lastly it is vntrue to say the Iewes worshipped it because of the Images on it For first they neither did nor could euer see any Image vpon it Secondly wee reade of the Arke brought forth in their iourneyings in the wildernesse so in going ouer Iordan also into the Campe of Israel 1. Sam. 4. 5. and at other times but wee neuer read of any that did worship it But if this had beene a commandement here surely there would haue beene some example of adoring it Thirdly they were commanded to worship God Deut. 6. 13. 10. 20. but no where to worship any other thing Fourthly how could it be that they worshipped the Arke because of the Images vpon it when the angels which by the Images were represented were not adored of them Would they worship the Image and not the things themselues For as Origen saith No Contr. Cels lib. 5. man adored the heauenly Angels which did submit himselfe to the Law of Moses Phil. 2. 10. At the name of Iesus c. Answ 1. Here is no Image mentioned What is this to Saints worship and their Images For this Text speakes of Iesus our Lord Sauiour Christ because we must bow downe to him the Sonne of God one person God and Man when wee doe make mention of his name Will it follow therefore that we should doe so to dead Images XXIII Proposition That the Lords Supper is to be administred to the people in one kinde onely Confuted by their owne Bible 1. IT teacheth vs that Christ instituting this his last Supper administred it in both kinds giuing a commandement to take and eate and also to drinke Mat. 26. 26 27. Luk. 20. 20. Secondly the Apostle Saint Paul repeating the institution mentioneth both the Bread and the Chalice 1. Cor. 11. 24 25. And first he tels them that this hee receiued of the Lord. Secondly that he deliuered the same vnto them verse 23. Thirdly he in verse 28. plainely prescribeth the eating of the Bread and drinking of the Chalice and that to euery one that commeth prepared and proueth himselfe saying Let him eate of that bread and drinke of that Chalice Out of which place it is euident that the drinking of the Chalice is of equall extent with the duty of prouing our selues before wee come vnto this Sacrament But the duty is generall and belongeth vnto all indifferently The drinking of the Chalice therefore may not be denied vnto any Thirdly the Church then in his dayes did receiue it in both kindes 1. Cor. 11. 26. For it is said there So often as you shall eate this bread and drinke this Chalice you shall shew the death of our Lord vntill hee come By both they shew his death And this place shews clearely that so often as they receiued they did eate the Bread and drinke the Chalice Fourthly the Apostles and Ministers of Christ did administer in both For the Apostle saith 1. Cor. 10. 16. The Chalice of benediction which we doe blesse is it not the communication of the bloud of Christ and the bread which wee breake is it not the participation of the body of the Lord Here the Apostle first mentioneth both the Chalice and Bread Secondly by the word we he vnderstands himselfe and other which did blesse the Chalice and breake the Bread Thirdly he saith that by the Chalice we communicate of Christs bloud and by the bread wee participate of his bodie and not by one of them of them both Saint Paul would haue Christs bloud out of his bodie in the Against concomitancy See D. White his last booke pag. 460 466. Chalice represented and not by the bread onely both his body and bloud Fourthly Christ is perfect food wee must therefore eate him and drinke him Drinke alone preserues not life nor onely to eate but both to eate and drinke therefore Christ instituted both to be receiued If the Aduersaries say that this receiuing was of the Apostles and as they by consequent would See an answer to this there also pag. 488 489 492. inferre of Priests onely which may receiue in both kindes but not the Laitie I answer first that the Apostles receiuing the Sacrament from Christ were then and there for the whole Church They receiued alone because they were Christs family to receiue together the Passeouer Secondly the Apostles were not as yet fully ordained till Christ breathed on them after