of youres to Dorman this place borowed of Ruffians and ribauldes not of any that haue either learning or witte is most farre from the auctours meaning whiche as anie that vieweth the place will easely perceiue so is it in Eusebius from whome Nicephorus toke it moste euident euen at the eye For Eusebius hath that Nouatus made them sweare per ea quae vnusquisque tenebat in manibus by those thinges which euery one Lib. 6. cap. 34. of them helde in his handes but they sware by the bodye and bloud of Christe saieth Nicephorus ergo they had the bodie and bloud of Christe in their handes Well although you doubted whether youre stamping staring and swearing alehouse solution shoulde finde with all men suche credite that they woulde by and by beleue yow yeat of this you doubted nothing to make some men at the least beleue that the doctrine of transsubstantiation Fol. 8 a. 4. were by this place quite ouerthrowen and withall to set furth youre selues to the worlde as the verie folowers of the primitiue churche in deliuering the sacrament into the receiuers handes But this ioy if you conceiued anie hereof you are like to enioy but a while M. Nowell For both Eusebius and Nicephorus calling here the sacrament by the name of bread are to be vnderstand to haue folowed therin the phrase of scripture which either so calleth it as did S. Paule because a littell before it so was as Moises rod being 1. Cor. 11. turned in to a serpent was in scripture called notwithstanding Exod. 7. a rod and saide by the name of a rodde to haue deuoured the roddes of the enchauntors which were also serpentes or as oure sauioure him selfe did not meaning by this worde bread the substance of materiall bread but the true bread of life Ioan. 6. Whereas you saye oute off Nicephorus that they Fol. 8. b 5. tasted that which they receiued and expound it thus that is to saye bread that is youre owne blinde glose and is not in the text If you woulde nedes playe the expositour yow should haue referred that tasting of theirs to the bodye and bloude of Christ which he made them sweare by and which went next in the sentence before So shoulde yow haue done the part of a true interpretour and haue made Nicephorus agree with the auncient fathers of Christes churche and namelie to omitt Tertullian Chrisostome and diuerse other with Cirillus the B. of Alexandria who saith of this matter quomodo Lib. 4. in Ioan ca. 14 non viuemus qui carnem illam gustamus manducamus How can it be that we shoulde not liue who doe both taste and eate that fleshe But what speake I of making him to agree with other when by this meanes you shoulde haue made him to agree with him selfe who in other places for that which he calleth here simply bread ioining thereunto an epithetoÌ„ calleth it vitalis panis liuely bread And whereas Lib. 1. cap. 30. yow would haue him to saye that in this place the communicantes held breade in their haÌ„des and tasted breade in rehearsing the oration which S. Ambrose made to Theodosius the emperour minding to entre in to the churche of Milain bringeth in S. Ambrose emongest other thinges speaking after this sorte Quomodo manus extolles quae caede Lib. 12. cap. 41. iniqua diffluunt Quomodo in eis diuinuÌ„ etiam corpus excipies Quomodo sanguineÌ„ praetiosum ad os afferes per quod ira transuersim actus tantuÌ„ effudisti sanguinis that is How wilt thow lift vp thy handes which flow with wicked murdre yea how wilt thow receiue in them the diuine body How wilt thow bring to thy mouthe the pretiouse blood by the which being caried away with angre thow hast spilt so muche bloud B. 15. S. Austen calleth the sacrament of Chrâ—stes bodie and bloude the sacrament of the altar I made no lye neither yeat dissembled the truthe or cloked the matter as yow charge me vntruly by calling this heauenly and liuely bread the blessed sacrameÌ„t of the altar with the which worde if yow be offended yow maye chalenge S. Austen for his worde it is and not mine It is yow M. Nowell that haue muche daungered youre honestie by falsifieng this place of Nicephorus For where he hath Cum Lib. 10. de Ciuit dei cap. 6. oblationes offerret qui mos sacerdotibus est when he offered the oblations as the maner of priestes is yow adde to the text this worde his and saye when he made his oblations Which The place of Nicephorus falsified worde of youres so conueighed in is such a spiteful worde as destroieth the whole minde of the auctor For whereas we defende the consecration of Christes bodye and bloude of which name yow are ashamed as appeareth by youre ConsecratioÌ„ as they terme it although S. Austen so affirmed the same against Manicheus the heretike that he saieth plainely iff Lib. 20. cap. 13. the bread and chalice be not consecrate it is foode for refection but not a sacrament of religion whereas we I saye defende such consecration to be an oblation and sacrifice when yow sawe the wordes of Nicephorus to meane the publike oblations of the whole churche which are the bodye and bloude of Christe yow thought that sense to be litle for youre aduantage and therfore it semed good counsell to shift in the worde his to the intent it might be thought that Nouatus had offred somewhat of his owne priuate deuotion Let the worlde nowe iudge M. Nowell whether this be true dealing or no. As for youre bragging how yow folow the vsage of the primitiue churche by giuing the sacrament into their handes who receiue it I aske yow this question grounding the Ad Ianuar epist 118. same vpon S. Austen why yow wrangle more aboute the giuing the sacrament in to the receiuers handes because they so toke it in the primitiue churche then yowe doe about the receiuing it fasting which Christ and his apostles did not If that be altered which Christ and his apostles did for the more honour of this greate sacrament why might not for the same reason or for some other as greate or greater the other manner of receiuing it into the handes be abolished also and taken awaye and yow counted schismatikes for breaking the peace of the church Why cause yow not yong babes to communicate againe as once they did in the primitiue churche and then make youre bragges thereof to that yow kepe the vsage of the primitiue churche Now that yow haue discoursed learnedly as yow thinke Fo. 9. a. 3. vpon the place of Nicephorus with charging me off mingling impertinent thinges by the waye c. Whereas he that hath but halfe an eye maye see that without I woulde haue out of halfe the sentence I coulde doe no otherwise then I did Which if I had yow woulde not belike neither haue
the Dorman popes supremacie I saide and do still that he exacted an vnlaufull othe against Cornelius then Pope and in that respecte the heade and gouernour of Christes church The likenes of the othe wherein I matched yow was that bothe that othe which Nouatus offred and this which yow tendre tende to one ende to trouble the beautifull ordre of Christes churche and to withdrawe men from the obedience of their laufull pastour For as laufully is the B. of Rome in spirituall matters oure heade as he was heade to Nouatus So that what so euer yow saie here of the controuersie betwene Cornelius and Nouatus for the bishoprike of Rome what so euer yow imagine of the laufulnesse of youre othes being as yow saye of obedience to youre naturall prince and oures and of the iniquitie of Nouatus othe being against his laufull bishop all is to no purpose For I susteine still that let the controuersie be as yow imagine it was yeat till yow be hable to proue that the B. of Rome is to vs a forriner and that oure obedience to him in spiritual causes cā in no wise stande with oure lauful odience to oure prince in temporall iurisdiction the resemblaunce made betwene Nouatus and yow will euer holde and be good Of oure obedience towardes oure prince whome as Gods ministre in earthe in worldly affaires we honour and reuerence as oure doinges for the time past can beare sufficient testimonie so shall I trust oure demeanure for the time to come be such as shal be able to stoppe the mouthes of al such fawning parasites as labour to make princes beleue that these two obediēces can not stande together as here M. Nowell doth making that the grounde of this lye of his that Nouatus his othe was not only vnlike but A lye 7. cleane contrarie to theirs You bring for an other difference betwene Nouatus case Nowell Fo. 6. b. 27 ▪ and youres that his othe concerned the maintenaunce of his heresie which aswell S. Cyprian B. of Carthage as Cornelius B. of Rome with all other godly bishoppes condemned What conclude yow M. Nowel herof Do the that proue anie difference Naie dothe not that match you together so Dorman much themore For youre othe is it not for the mainteinaunce of your heresies which be so horrible that aswel by al generall councelles and all the godly learned bishoppes in the world as by Pius the Pope thy are condemned Yow saye that as Nouatus required an othe of his folowers c Nowell fol. 7. a. 7. So did the professours of the same heresies trauell in Afrike with their disciples there being Africanes that they shoulde not returne to Cyprian B. of Carthage to communicate with him which as it maketh nothing for any supremacie of S. Cyprian B. of Carthage no more maketh the other for anie supremacy of Cornelius B. of Rome If yow meane that the professours of Nouatus his heresies Dorman in Afrike did exacte an othe as did Nouatus as youre wordes so did the professours c. which must nedes haue relation to that which goeth before doe importe no lesse or if yow meane not so but that they traueiled to wyn men from Cyprian as the other did from Cornelius how so euer yow meane yow can not proue so muche out of the place that yow alleage If yow coulde yeat woulde it Lib. 4. epist 9. make nothing for youre purpose for I neuer alleaged the othe of Nouatus to make for the bishop of Romes supremacie and therfore care not whether this that yow saie the folowers of Nouatus did in Africa make for S. Cyprians supremacie or no. I alleaged the facte of Nouatus to proue that heretikes trouble the ordre of the churche that did they that yow speake of in Africa aswell as Nouatus in Rome If Dorman had writen thus absurdely he had dreamed but suche egle byrdes as M. Nowell is neuer sleepe I warraunt yow but be allwaies waking It foloweth And where Nouatus began first his heresie in Afrike by striuing Nowell fol. 7◠24. against S. Cyprian and not by striuing first against Cornelius B. of Rome as M. Dorman vntruly reporteth the beginning of heresies is rather to make warre and strife against the B. of Carthage then against the B. of Rome Yow obserue well the preceptes of youre arte to staye Dorman vpon small pointes when to the greater yow be hable to saye nothing But to the matter where so euer heretikes begin in Africa as yow saie of Nouatus concerning his heresies vntruly though concerning schisme trulie or in Germanie as did Luther or in England as diuerse haue done as immediatly they make warre against the whole churche so striue they specially against the heade whose parte is to prouide for the bodie For seing that no man is to be counted an heretike but he that renounceth the vnitie of the churche no man do the that who is contented to obeye the heade thereof it foloweth verie well that who so euer is an heretike whether he beginne in Africa England or elles where striueth furthwith against the pope the heade of the churche which can not be saide of the bishop of Carthage who hath no suche office in the churche I haue done you saie maliciously and vntruly calling Nouatus Nowell b. 11. youre auncestour and youre bishoppes as his disciples indurate heretikes You purge youre selfe of that which before I charged Dorman yow not withall For I compared yow only together in that one pointe of forcing men by othes to forsake the B. of Rome Yeat forasmuche as you take the matter as you doe bragging here of youre moste earnest and pithy sermons and writinges against Nouatus doctrine c. I shall desire the learned reader to conferre this place of S. Ambrose Lib. 1. de paenitentia cap. 2. Hist Tripart lib. 8. cap. 9. written of the Nouatians with youre doctrine of penaunce Sed aiunt se domino deferre reuerentiam cui soli remittendorum criminum potestatem reseruant But they saie that they are reuerent towardes God to whom only they reserue power to forgiue synne Doe not you maintaine that man hath no auctoritie to remitte sinne and call vs at youre pleasure for saying that God hath giuen the same power to man his ministre Be not yow the folowers of Nouatus in this pointe Yow saye I beleue also that M. Dorman in the allegation off Nowell Nouatus his othe had a further respecte to that he maketh mention of the bodie and bloude of Christe by the whiche because Nouatus caused them to sweare M. Dorman thought belike thereby to proue or at least to make an insinuation to the simple that the bodie and bloude of Christe shoulde be corporally present in the Sacrament But the daily othes of blasphemouse men swearing likewise in his corporall absence doe confute that collection What respecte so euer I had this answere
table c. And that S Paule calleth it mensam dominicam oure Lordes table To the facte of Christ maye be answered two wayes Dorman First that we considre not in this word altar so muche the matter whereof it is made as we doe the thing which is executed vpon it For it is not stone that maketh it to be called an altar no more then wood siluer or golde but it is the sacrifice done vpon it which maketh it so to be called So that when Christ our sauiour instituted this sacrifice or oblation of the newe testament as namely the auncient father Irineus calleth it although as yow saye Li. 4. c. 32 men had in those daies in their houses no altars in stede of tables yeat was this table made an altar by Christes offring him selfe thereapō Again if you will yeat reason that because it was a table of wood or a woodden altar therefore we must change the ordre off Christes churche and downe with oure stone altars and set vp tables of wood then must I answere you that this was one of the thinges which oure sauiour determined nothing of but lefte to the discretion August epist 118. of his Apostles by whom he would dispose the busines of the church and that by the same very mene that you wolud haue altars pulled downe you may also ouersthrow churches b. 13. A reason of M. Nowelles to ouerthrowe churches For except you think M. Nowel to vse your own reason made here against altars that mē vsed to dwelle in those daies in churches in stede of priuate housen you wil graunte I dare saye that Christ instituted this sacramēt in a priuate house and so by that reason of youres down with the churches and let your cōmunion be ministred in parlors of priuate houses Neither I nor al the papistes with me yow say cā bring so muche Nowell b. 20. out of the newe testament for altars as you haue done for the Lordes table Yes that I can my selfe alone M. Nowell without anie Dorman other helpe Is the first epistle of S. Paule to the Corinth anie parte of the newe testament I trust you wil saye yea seing that one of youre places is taken out of that epistle Yea but is the ninth chapitre anie parte of that epistle If it be then haue you there expresse mention of altars where the texte saieth that they that serue the altar shall liue by the altar And againe to the Hebrues we haue an altar whereof they maye not eate that serue the taberuacle Where you 1. Cor. 9. can not saye that he ment of any altar other then of the Hebr. 12. newe testament for he compareth together the tabernacle of the olde law and the altar of the new How saye you nowe M. Nowell haue we scripture for altars out of the newe testament or no I thinke you will say that we haue and he that shal wel way the places that they are better applied thē are youres toe For whereas you woulde seme to wipe away all such places of the fathers and aunciēt writers which be infinite and the worde altara hundred times no doubt mētioned in their writinges for the worde table once by a figuratiue speche by which reason and by better to as you haue by figures robbed vs allready of Christes body and bloud the sacrifice of the churche so you might bring the temple it selfe to a figure because the Apostle saieth templum Dei quod estis vos the temple of God which are you it is the worde table that is figuratiuely vsed aswell in the scriptures as the fathers writinges As namely in this place here alleaged by you of the Apostle where it is saide Yow can not be partakers of the table of the Lorde and of the table of the 1. Cor. 10. diuels Is not the worde table which you here bring to proue M. Nowell auoiding the worde alta◠by a figure alleageth the worde table that can not otherwise be vnderstand youre communion table by whereas if you woulde nedes vse that worde you shoulde haue taken the table here mentioned in the seconde place which agreeth more aptly thereto is it not I saye a plaine figuratiue worde signifieng to vs the feast or banket exhibited thereupon For when he sayeth partakers of the table it shoulde go verye harde with them that shoulde eate if that were propre speache you wote well And thus you maye see that we haue not onelye scripture for altars aswell as you but more proper also and that better proue the same then the places by you brought You saye that if S. Basile and some other olde writers call it Nowell fol. 14. b. 27. an altar that is no propre but a figuratiue name c. O M. Nowell you knowe well inough howe euer you Dorman woulde here extenuate the matter that it is not S. Basile alone with some fewe other that so call it but all the auncient writers euen from the Apostle Paules time to oures haue so called it and that the contrarie is moste true that as they haue vsed this worde table seldom times so they haue vsed it at suche times as did S. Paule to signifie by a figure either the heauenly banquet deliuered vpon the same or for that an altar hath the office and is in dede a spirituall table The whiche thing youre selfe woulde not sticke to graunt were it not that the graunting of a true altar were like to enforce a true sacrifice But to the entent the worlde may perceiue how you abuse them both in the one and the other I wil here oute of certaine aunciēt writers saye so muche as I trust they shall all perceiue that this figuratiue altar and figuratiue sacrifice is the false fable and vaine dreame that you speake of onely mete for such figure flingers as you are your selfe M. Nowell Touching altars that they be not so called of the fathers by figure but truly what better proufe can you haue then out of Martialis the B. of Burdeaulx one of the 70. disciples of our Sauiour who speaking of suche altars as were throwen downe by the Apostles and at the last of that dedicated to the vnknowen God whereof is mention made in the actes of the Apostles writeth thus Dum altaria daemonum Act. ca. 17. Epistol ad Burdegalens in puluerem redigerentur aram ignoti Dei reseruari iussimus Qua dedicata in nomine Dei Israel ipsius testis Stephani qui pro eo a Iudeis passus est non hominis cultum sed Dei in ea frequentatis That is to saye while the aultars of the diuels were brought to powder we commaunded the altar of the vnknowen God to be reserued The whiche being dedicate in the name of the God of Israel and of his witnesse Steuin which suffred for him of the Iewes you doe not now practise thereupō the worshipping of man but of god Can there be
a plainer place then this M. Nowell to proue that which you denie and which you woulde drawe to so greate an absurdite as that because the Iewes had altars b. 25. therefore it were vnlaufull for vs to haue them Whereas you here may learne that Christes owne disciples without pulling downe without anie other changing or altering then by dedicating it in the name of god and S. Steuin vsed a material altar to worship God vpon Can you cal this a figuratiue altar Chrysostome in a certaine homely or sermon that he Homil. 53. made to the people of Antioche asketh this question Si quis hanc destrueret domum hoc suffoderet altare nonne quiâ—◠〈…〉 prophanum impium 〈…〉 woulde not euery man caste stones at him as a prophane or wicked man How thinke you M. Nowell when to ouerthrowe altars they must be digged vp ment Chrysostome of figuratiue altars or reall tables There nedeth you wote wel neither matock nor pykeax to remoue youre tables If there did they woulde not I trow walke their stations so often in the churche from place to place as they doe especially if the clarcke or ministre shoulde be in daunger to be stoned to deathe to be taken for a prophane and wicked man so often as he shoulde doe it For altars this maye suffice especially the testimonie of Chrisostome who liuing in the same age ought to persuade all reasonable men what maner of altars they were that S. Basile ment of rather then M. Nowels simple reason because it is saide that Fol. 15. a. â— Christ offred him selfe vpoÌ„ the altar of the crosse therfore no altars maie be set vp vnlesse we will turne all crosses in to altars Wheras although it were true that he imagineth that the crosse whereon Christ suffred was called an altar by a figure as in dede to him that considereth the greke worde it is not true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but false for a true altar was it yeat had it not folowed that because there was a figure in those wordes where so euer in anie place elles there shoulde be mention made of an altar there it shoulde be vnderstand by a figure For the sacrifice offered vpon oure altars which we saye to be the verie bodye and bloude of Christe Yow phantasye to be a spirituall thankes giuing onely and drawe to the sacrifice of praier how muche might here be saied to the contrarye if it were not impertinent to the matter Omitting therefore Irinaeus Cyprian Ambrose Austen Chrisostome Cirillus Athanasius with the rest I shall here be contented to haue alleaged one onely testimonie oute 〈…〉 councell of Calcedon so euident to the purpose that bothe the distinction of the bloudy and vnbloudy offering of Christes body and bloude which yow M. Nowell thought you might here vpon the credite of youre bare honestie without farder proufe affirme to be abused is proued thereby to be good and youre onely spirituall sacrifice vtterly condeÌ„ned The place is taken out of the libell which one Isâ—hyrion a deacoÌ„ of the church of Alexandria offered vp to Leo the pope and the whole councell against Dioscorus the bishop there and is this Tanta autem contra omnes Act. 3. non sicut decebat episcopum maximè tantae ciuitatis euangelicae illius sedis praesulem constitutum perpetrare ausus est vt etiam frumentum quod a piâ—ssimis nostris imperatoribus ecclesijs Libiae propter ariditatem illius prouinciae quia ibi omnino triticum non nascitur praestitum est inprimis quidem vt ex ipso hostia offeratur deinde vt peregrini nec non etiaÌ„ prouinciales pauperes ali quod mereantur solatium non permitâ—eret suscipere sanctissimos episcopos illius prouinciae sed aestimaret memoratum frumentum largissimis praetijs ipsum verò in tempore famis amarissimis estimationibus venundaret Et ex hoc neque terribile incruentum sacrificium celebratum est neque sic vt dixi peregrini aut prouinciales hoc solatio fruiti sunt That is to saye He hath bene so hardy to commit so greate thinges against all men not as it became a bishop and especially of so greate a citie and of that euangelicall seate that euen the verie corne which was giuen by oure godlye emperours to the churches of Libya for the bareÌ„nesse of that prouince and because there groweth no wheate there chiefelie * Vt ex ipso hoâ—liâ— offâ—ratur that the sacrifice might be offred of that and next that strangiers and suche pore nedy men also as be of the same prouince might receiue some reliefe therby he suffreth not the holy bishoppes of that prouince to receiue but prysing the saide corne at excessiue prices in time of famine he selleth it most rigorously And thereby neither is the dreadefull and vnbloudy sacrifice celebrate neither doe either strangers or those of the prouince enioye this comforte Hetherto the wordes of this godly deacons supplication whereby all men maye see that the beliefe of the churche at that tyme was that the vnbloudy sacrifice which was offred on the altar stoode not in the onely offering vp of praiers and praises vnto god Which kinde of sacrifice might and may be offred at al times were there neuer so great lacke of corne and can be by no meanes called dreadefull For it is not dreadefull M. Nowell to prayse god inwardly it is the onely comfort to oure consciences so far is it from all terrour But terrible is it to come to goddes table where we shall receiue either to oure damnation or saluation the very bodie and bloud of Christ Go nowe and saye that the wheate here mentioned was figuratiue that this naughtie bishop solde and toke monie for it by a figure For excepte yow saie thus yow can neuer auoide this place Now whereas yow call it a false phantasie that the bodye Fo. 15. b. 13 and bloud of Christ are offred for the quicke and the deade c. therein surely yow note not so muche me of dreaming as if it were true that yow saye yow shoulde note all the fathers of Christes churche of sleping For to begin with S. Iames the apostle of oure sauiour praieth he not in his masse extant in the greke tongue to be sene that this oblation sanctified by the holy ghost maye be acceptable to purchase rest for their soules which slepe before vs Doe not Chrisostome and S. Basile the like in their masses Doth not Athanasius expressely affirme that by the vnbloudy oblation the soules of sinners Lib. de Varijs quest q. 34. In cap. 11. prouerb departed this worlde receiue comfort Doth not S. Hierome holde that veniall sinnes maye be purged after this life by the praiers or almoise dedes of their frindes or by the celebrating off masses As for S. Austen who calleth it a tradition of the fathers De verb. apost serm 52. an obseruation of the whole and
by and by to be confounded as one in truthe and nature the names whereof be confounded Otherwise because the Apostles are in the gospell called disciples an Apostle and a disciple are all one which is well knowen not to be so Likewise though the termes of prieste and bishop were common yeat the thinges were neuer one in so muche that S. Austen making mention of the heresie of Aerius saieth Dicebat etiam praesbiterum ab episcopo nulla differentia secerni debere He saide Ad quod vult Deum haeres 57. also that a prieste ought to be distinguished from a bishop by no difference But what meane you here M. Nowell to talcke so much of the equalitie of bishoppes and priestes being a matter in this place nothing to oure purpose Or if it were seing it might be saide that euen as the olde canons as I declared before in that equalitie which is in priestehode vsed yeat In the 6. chapitre fol. 33. b. the worde Archipraesbiter chiefe prieste and ordeined suche a dignitie in the churche so there is nothing that letteth why in the equalitie of bishoppes and priestes while no one is more bishop or prieste then an other there maie How one bishop is equall to an other not be degrees notwithstanding of superioritie allthough not in the sacrament of ordres which is common to them all yeat in the execution of that power that is conferred thereby But perhappes you be of the opinion youre selfe that there ought to be no difference betwene a bishop and a prieste and therefore are the gladder to snatche occasion by all meanes direct or indirect to vtter youre minde therin Nowe foloweth vpon this grounde laied that bishoppes and priestes be by the first institution and the lawe of God one youre conclusion whereby you will make it appeare that you haue not without cause made mention of this equalitie of bishoppes and priestes So that all bishoppes which be the successours of the Apostles Nowell b. 24. be also praesbiteri that is to saie elders or priestes Whereof it foloweth also that there is an equalitie emongest all bishoppes by goddes lawe as the equall successours of the Apostles And that this is S. Hieromes minde in that place all learned men who haue reade the saide epistle doe well knowe This was not the minde of S. Hierome but is an idle Dorman phantasy of youre owne The learned knowe and to their iudgement I appeale that his minde was here to compare together the state of a prieste and a bishop in the sacrament of holie ordres common aswell to the one as to the other that so he might refell the better the errour of those who helde that deacons ought to be equall to priestes as appeareth by these wordes of his in the beginning of the epistle In this epistle ad Euagri◠Nam quum Apostolus c. For whereas the Apostle teacheth manifestly that priestes and bishoppes be one what eyleth the seruaūt * He meaneth deacons of widowes and tables arrogātly to extoll him selfe aboue them at whose praiers the bodie and bloud of Christe is made Doth not this example put in the consecrating of the bodie and bloude off Christe the whiche the poorest prieste that is hathe as good auctoritie to doe giuen hym in the sacrament of holie ordres as the pope him selfe declare that S. Hieromes minde was no otherwise to make priestes equall to bishoppes but in the only ordre of priestehode common to bothe Yea but yow will saie that the Apostles were equall in all respectes for if you saie not so you can not conclude absolutely as yow doe that all bishoppes their successours be so equall If yow saie so that is but your bare Lib. 1. contra Iouinianum saing only not by the auctoritie of S. Hierome confirmed but most plainly by the same impugned Who in one place saieth that emongest the twelue there was a heade chosen Peter by name and in an other place that Christ made Peter In cap. Marci 14. Note the cause of appointing one heade the maister of his house THAT VNDER ONE SHEPHERD THERE MAY BE ONE FAITH Which is directly against the equalitie that you build vpō But let it be graunted vnto you that the apostles were equal yeat shall not your cōclusion folow for all that For it is to be considered that in the Apostles there is a double respect which is to be weighed nowe of vs. Either we considre them as they were all Apostles or as they were bishoppes As they were Apostles they How the Apostles were all equall were all equall they had all like power to preache and teache thorough out the whole worlde As they were bishoppes and rulers of particuler churches they were all subiect to Petre the chiefe bishop of all As they were Apostles that is to saye generall legates to plante Christes faithe thorough out all the world to founde churchs to preach the word of God finally to gouerne vniuersally in all places where their should come they trāsmitted this right none of thē to their successours but only Peter who was the generall shepherd of all Which is the cause that some of the fathers namely S. Austē saie that the power giuen to Peter was giuē to him In psalm 208. in the persone of the church because it was not giuē to him alone but to all his successours to cōtinue for euer As the Apostles were bishops of particuler places their auctoritie ended not with them but wēt further to the whole church to cōtinue for euer Now to applye this to our purpose howe doe the bishoppes that now are succede the Apostles They succede them as bishoppes not as Apostles For if they succeded them so who seeth not that as the Apostles made lawes absolued excommunicated and ruled thorough out all How bisshoppes be the successours of the Apostles the worlde where so euer they came so might the bishoppes that nowe succede thē doe the like The which thing seing we finde by no recordes sith the apostles time that euer it was practised in the church and if it should it were the nexte waie to disquiet al the worlde and to fill the churche full of schismes and heresies reason it selfe dothe conuince that the ordre taken emongest the Apostles was but by speciall priuileage not appointed to continue for euer or to derogate anie thing from the generall ordre begonne in Peter and appointed to be perpetuall as long as the church shoulde endure To conclude therfore I graunte to you M. Nowell that the Apostles were equall as they were all the generall legates of Christe but not as they had their speciall bishoprikes and charges limited vnto them In which latter sense because the bishoppes that are nowe succede the Apostles in which pointe they were not equall it foloweth against you that all bishoppes be not equall Iff yow will saye that the Apostles were also equall euen in that that
this is a frowarde heretike might denie S. Paules epistles to the Corinthiās especiallie the Latter in the which the case so requiring he glorieth so farre that him selfe confesseth that he hath played the foole 2. Corinth cap. 11. 1◠compelled thereto by them Ywisse S. Paule was as much subiect to persecution and deathe as anie of the popes that you haue named He had as litle lust or leisour to occupie his heade or pen about the setting furthe of him selfe to boaste of his apostleship to tel of his reuelations as anie of them But necessitie compelling bothe him and them to stande vpon their auctoritie it was expedient that they shoulde earnestlie set furthe the same The epistles that you speake of here to haue bene forged were gathered together aboue nine hundred yeares past by one Isidorus archebisshop of Hispalis in Spaine so that when you come to proue this matter those popes of these latter nine hundred yeares you see how they be discharged Now M. Nowell if you thinke that you haue walcked long inough out of the waye we will returne thither from whence we departed to the. 53. Leafe of youre booke The which because as the reader maye see it conteineth nothing but very matter of bragges not worthy to be answered I steppe ouer Ofschismes and sectes wherewith M. Nowell burdeneth the Catholikes The 17. Chapitre HERE M. Nowell by occasion of a fewe lines but such Nowell fol. 54. a. belike as touched him to the quicke and made him to wynse discourseth in manie leaues in defence of schismes and sectes This note of mine whereby I admonished the reader for better credite to be giuen hereafter to the auncient fathers Cypriā and Hierom who telling vs that the not obeing of one chiefe heade in one seuerall diocesse is the cause of schismes and heresies saye withall allthough not in expresse wordes asmuche by force of greater reason vnlesse there be one suche heade acknowledged and obeied in the vniforme gouernement of the whole churche to haue an eye to the present schismes whiche haue burst in vpon vs in oure countrie in stede of one commō receiued truthe in the daies of oure fathers this note I saie so graueled M. Nowell rubbing him on the verie heade of that festred boile of his poisoned heresie that he coulde finde no grounde to stande vpon but nedes must he fling out and laie about him as a man halfe wood and beside himselfe sparing none not the blessed Apostles them selues He beginneth this pastime after his accustomed maner with this Lewde lye It is well knowen that there is as muche consent in true doctrine Nowell A facing lye 44. in the churche of Englande at this time as euer was in anie realme at anie time What a face thinke you hath this man or hath he anie Dorman face or forheade at all I will not trouble him with forein realmes shewing him what consent in true doctrine there is presently in manie Catholike countries nor I will not appeale to all the former ages that haue passed I will only put him in remembraunce of the consent in true doctrine in oure owne countrie fifty yeares ago Can you saye M. Nowel for with you I loue gladliest to talcke that there was then anie dissention in doctrine at all Can yow recken vs vp anie diuersitie of opinions touching beliefe in all the realme of England at that time Will you saie they had no true doctrine at all and therfore no consent in true doctrine If you saie so then name vs a time when there was euer true doctrine in Englande that suche a time being knowen it maie be proued vnto you that there were no suche sectes and schismes then as rage emongest you nowe Note vnto vs the yeare and religion vsed at any tyme since oure realme was firste christened when yow write nexte that we maye aske you whether at that tyme Caūtorbury Rochester Glocestre were of one opiniō cōcerning the presence of Christes most blessed body bloude in the sacramēt and Londō Winchester and Dirham of a cleane contrary as they are nowe that occupye these roomes Who hathe not hearde of a sermon latelye preached before the Queenes maiestye in the defence of the reall presence and the preacher called of his brethern for his labour an asse in a Rochet the Sermon it selfe by a mightye Samson shortly after as it semed confuted Is this a consent in true doctrine M. Nowell Haue you not hearde off these Sermones Or if you hearde them did you nodde there while and beare so litle awaye that you haue cleane forgotten the whole matter telling vs nowe scarse oute of youre sleepe that you haue as muche consent in true doctrine as euer was in anye realme at anye tyme How many of youre brethern be of Verons minde touching predestination Let M. Moulins the vsurper of the Archedeaconry of London youre neighbour tell you M. Nowell why he did excommunicate M. Thomas Walbot a ministre in London Let the saide Walbot instructe you who they are that in his learned supplication to M. Doctour Parker he calleth Florinitians Tell vs M. Nowell whereof it procedeth that three of the moste graue modeste and learned emongest yow men to saye the truthe in all respectes heresye set a parte worthy to beare the office off M. D. Parker M. Cheyny M. Gest true bishoppes in Christes churche are of their subiectes so contemptuouslye set at naught whereof I saye it procedeth that one is called Matthewe meale mouthe a Lince wolsy bishoppe c. that the other hathe Moyer the ministre of Wootton vnder headge borne out against him the thirde termed an Asse but of this that there be schismes and sectes emongest you Are you ignoraunt M. Nowell what cōmunion M. Whittingham celebrated at Duresme not onely against the mynde of his bishoppe but the ordre appointed also by the communion booke Neuer hearde you what a singuler and straunge maner off baptisme he deuised and ministred at Duresme Is al this in your eye consent in true doctrine when you agree not emongest youre selues neither in the substance of the chiefest Sacramentes neither in the maner of their ministration Are we ignoraunt thinke you of the Anabaptistes Arrians Eluidians and whole swarmes of these and other heretikes that lye smoothering in corners looking for the ioyfull tyme of their deliueraunce in to the world and broade light as you and youre felowes did 30. yeares ago Are we ignoraunt thereoff because when some of them sturring before their tyme are brought before youre bishoppes they are with good wordes of greate policie dismissed with exhortation to them to lyue lyke quiet subiectes c. Lest suche hastie and vntimely teeming might be not onely the vtter ruine and ouerthrowe of all those heresyes that hauing nowe continued almost twentie yeares begin to growe to mannes state but of so muche faire issue allso as that cursed moother is lyke to bring furthe hereafter Iudge you vs to
vniuersall churche to offer for the soules departed the sacrifice of Christes moste pretiouse body and bloude the sacrifice of oure mediatour who offred the Lib. confes 9. cap. 13. same for the soule of his mother Monica and had it offred after his deathe for his owne these and manie other places in his worckes are to moste men so well knowen that to alleage them here it maye seme superfluouse What remaineth nowe M. Nowell but that as S. Austen saide to Iulian a scholer of Pelagius after he had alleaged against his heresies the learned writers of the churche Ego a Pelagianis Lib. 2. contra Iulian. cirâ—asin ad istos tu ab istis ad quos I go from the Pelagians to these learned fathers thowe from these to whome wilt thow go so I saie to you a scholer of Caluins touching this matter I go from the Caluinistes to S. Iames to Chrisostome to Basile to Athanasius and you M. Nowell from these to whome will you go If you saie to the scriptures wherby it appereth that Christ offered him self once for al c. theÌ„ harkeÌ„ how you be yeat pressed farder by S. Austen Hebr. 10. VVhy saieth he be al thinges so out of frame is darcknesse so come to passe to be light and light darkenesse that Pelagius Celestius Ibid. Iulianus should see and Hilary Gregory and Ambrose should be blinde Why M. Nowel is the ordre of thinges so inuerted that Nowel Iuell Grindall Horne yea Luther and Caluin if yow will should see this obiection and S. Iames Basile Athanasius Hierome Austen and he which moueth the same obiection out of the 10. chap. of S. Paule to the Hebrues Chrilostom him selfe and answereth thereto shoulde be blinde and not see it Thus appeareth it by how fo 16. a. 10 good right you ouerthrow our altars on which the greatest Idolatrie that you feine to haue bene committed was the oblation of Christes bodye and bloud which you see to be by the iudgement of the most auncient fathers of Christes churche iustified and therefore were the examples of Asa Iosaphat Ezechias and Iosias moste wickedly abused by you for the ouerthrowing of oure altars and consequently that youre doctrine is diuelishe whereby altars are taught to be ouerthrowen whereby the visible sacrifice of the church is abolished and suche like As for the holie daies how euer you kepe those that be left you can not denie but that manie a one instituted by the churche you haue put downe and would count the keping of them now superstitiouse And as for hymnes and singing in the night if you counted it not superstition why haue you taken that maner awaye which Chrisostom Homil. ad popul Antioch 59. witnesseth that the monkes in this time vsed for the moste part of the night Which singing of theirs in the darcke and wheÌ„ other were a slepe he preferred before the melodiouse harmonie of any musical instrumeÌ„t what so euer it were and therefor to this you haue answered but scleÌ„drely saing that you haue such godly and goodly songes in the daye as though we had song only in the night and not in the day Your ministres what maner of men they be I am coÌ„tent to leaue to their iudgemeÌ„t who liuing in the realme emoÌ„gest theÌ„ caÌ„ better witnesse thereof Of whose coÌ„ning in the English toÌ„gue as much as you brag and deface the latin as did once a gentlemaÌ„ in kinge Edward his time who minding to coÌ„mend to Hoper for orders forsoth one of these mere English brethren said of him verie sadly that he was an honest maÌ„ in whoÌ„ a maÌ„ should find no other lacke saue that he had no knowledge in the popish toÌ„gue yeat could I name you some iwisse eueÌ„ the pewterer of Oxford with one eye that wheÌ„ he happened vpoÌ„ the wordes of the prophet 〈…〉 vpon him was streight in a greate rage against the papistes saing that they had corrupted the liuely word of the lord by adding to the texte the worde ostes againe that other greate clerke that for Christe is the propitiation c. reade Christe is the prouocation these I saie with other of like skill in the Englishe tongue manie mo I coulde name if I thought it nedefull And all though these haue not perhappes yeat anie greate learned mannes liuing yeat hathe he that was made not manye yeres since beleue by these wordes Missa fuit a Corintho which are in some bibles after the ende of the epistle to the Romaines that the name of the masse was expressely Cole mentioned in the scripture To cloke the better the ignoraunce of youre ministres Nowell fo 17. a. 11. you tell vs that S. Peter a fisher and S. Paule a tente maker vsed their artes after their calling to the Apostleship that you muche merueile of my iudgement who doe place Peter the fisher in the highest roume aboue all bishoppes and can not suffer other honest artificiers sufficiently exercised in the scriptures to haue any place at all in the inferiour ministerie Peter was a fisher and placed aboue all bishoppes Dorman not by me to take awaye youre merueilinge Hom il in Math. 55. but by Christe him selfe if you beleue Chrisostome who saieth of him that Christe promised to make him by these wordes And I saie vnto the that tho warte Peter c. being an obscure fisher the shepeherde and heade of the churche Matt. 16. that God the Father saing to Hieremias I haue placed the as an Iron piller and a brasen wall made him the gouernour but Herem 1. of one nation but that Christe placed Peter ouer all the worlde Paule had his learning in the scriptures and so had Peter to Note by inspiration Will you nowe because after their calling to the Apostleship they vsed their occupations make this special working of God done of his high â—â—â—dom 〈…〉 the princes and worldly wise of this world a cloke for euery malapert artificer to brag of the spirit to clyme into the pulpit more mete as one no lesse truly then merely saide to clyme a dawes neast as though Christ vsed now to worke by miracles as he did theÌ„ and not by ordinarie meanes and degrees This is a reasoÌ„ M. Nowel reiected of al learned meÌ„ but common I confesse to youre apren ministers Reade the epistle of S. Hierome to Paulinus and you shall see that although the Apostles were Theodidacti yeat men must loke now adayes to come to the knowledge of scripture by exercise and daily meditation As for that that you saye they are sufficiently exercised in the scriptures because no man shall saie that I charge you furder then by them of youre owne side hathe bene acknowledged call to your remeÌ„braunce the oration made in the conuocation by him that was then prolocutour not longe since wherein speaking of youre ministres he vttred these wordes Hodie plerisque locis reperias aut sutorem aut bubulcum Ianuarij
they were clothed this is most certeine that those good men that wandred about the worlde in pelttes and gotes skynnes of whome S. Paule maketh Heb. 11. mention and saieth that the world was not worthy of thē had apparel diuerse and distincte from other men and yeat I trust you will not make them schismatikes As for the other diuersities that you gather as of shauing going becking bowing c. Who woulde euer haue thought that a man of youre qualities had bene so scrupulouse or superstitiouse as to requier that all men should be shauen a like that they vse the like gate in going the same maner of becking and bowing and such like But if in shauing there must nedes for the auoiding of schismes be one vniforme fashion why not in clipping I praie you M. Nowel And then you might doe wel when you preache nexte sobrely to persuade withe the barbers that they cut hereafter all mennes beardes alike all a la marquesato all a la philippina all a la moresca all forcked all square or otherwise as to youre wisdome shall seme best so that all be a like and schisme hereby auoided Let your discretion also prescribe some one vniforme maner of going becking and bowing Nowe concerning diuersitie of diete and meates you will not I thinke take vpon you to prescribe al Englāde one diete and one kinde of meate you will rather turne it ouer to the phisicion and bid him vnder perile of schisme to appointe one suche diete to the whole realme But if this be a note of schismes or sectes M. Nowell for one ordre of religiouse men to vse one diet an other to feede after an other sorte bothe of them notwitstāding susteining nature with no other then with suche as by ordre and law they maie what are they I praie you that in the holie time of lent when all the worlde absteineth and from the Apostles time hetherto euer hath absteined from flesh doe then of al other times moste greedily desire the same That religiouse men haue not allwaies obserued vniformitie neither in cutting their heare neither in their diete emongest other of the auncient fathers none witnesseth more euidently then Epiphanius the B. of Cypres who describing the fourme of the church in his daies when he commeth to make mentiō of the religiouse men writeth thus Quidam verò ex solitariā vitā degentibus c. Some of these that Sub sin lib. 3. contra haereses Diuersities of liuing emongest religiouse men in the primitiue churche Acto 18. leade this solitarie life in the church dwell in cities Some continue in monasteries and get them farre out of the waye Some haue thought good to let their heare growe for cōlinesse sake of the propre inuentiō of their minde not of anie cōmaundemēt of the gospel or tradition of the Apostles for S. Paule the Apostle cut of this attyre There be beside other moste excellent conuersations of lyfe which are obserued in the same holye catholike churche I meane off them which absteine from all fleshe foure footed beastes byrdes and fishe yea egges also and cheese and other diuerse rules of lyfe For euery one shall receiue his rewarde according to his owne laboure And some truly absteine from al these other some from foure footed beastes only eating fowle and all other meates Some absteine from fowle and vse egges and fishe Some eate no egges neither some eate fishe onely Some absteine allso from fishe and eate cheese Some there be that eate not so muche as cheese Beside these there be other whiche absteine from breade other allso from harde fruites nuttes and all sodden thinges manye haue the grounde for their bedde Other weare no shoes other were priuey sacke clothe VVearing of sacke clothe for penaunce for vertue and penaunce sake which do trulye well For it is vnsemelye to be sene openlye wearing sacke clothe as some doe Hetherto Epiphanius touching the diuersitie of maners emongest religiouse men in his tyme. How saye yow M. Nowel were yow ignoraunt of this place when yow made youre description of sectes and schismes or knewe yow of it Iff you were ignoraunt thereof acknowledge at the length that you were deceiued if yow knew it crye shame to youre selfe that durst charge the Catholikes with schismes vsing suche maners as the primitiue churche of Christe vsed Nowe iudge good Reader whether thou haddest rather beleue Epiphanius or M. Nowell The one Epiphanius taketh occasion by these diuersityes to sette furthe the beauty of the churche the other M. Nowell to obscure thereby and deface the same The one calleth these diuerse fashions off lyuing praeeminentes vitae conuersationes moste excelling conuerastions of lyfe the other the vorie propertye of schismes and sectes Epiphanius sayeth they shall be rewarded M. Nowell as muche in effect as that they shal be condemned But where hathe Epiphanius these wordes for that maketh not a little to the matter Forsothe in that worke of his where he doeth nothing elles but fight against heresies and sectes in the very ende thereof when hauing declared before howe heretikes and schismatikes had deformed the church he would as it were oppose and set against them the holy lyfe and vertuouse conuersation off suche good men as had decked and garnished the same So that if these diuerse fashions of liuinges had bene the verye propertye of sectes and schismes he woulde neuer we maye be sure that wrote purposely against them haue cōmended thē for good and vertuouse Now for reading singing and tuning it greueth me to heare how farre you be M. Nowel from all good tune As though it were either nedefull or youre churches at home vsed thorough out all the realme one tune and not diuerse But for this matter I will leaue yow to the musicians mercy for diuinitie maketh no matter thereof I assure yow Yeat there is an other diuersitie and that is of churche seruice If diuersitie herein make a schisme then wo be to you M. Nowell and your companions who haue altered the common receiued seruyce thorough out all the latine churche Ex ore tuo te iudico serue nequam But it is not euery diuersitie of churche seruice that maketh a schisme but onely suche diuersitie as is done against ordre and lawe I meane Goddes lawe the lawe off the church giuen by those spirituall rulers and gouernours whome Christe hathe appointed for the building off his Ephes 4. Acto 20. misticall bodye the churche and to guyde and rule the same redemed with his pretiouse bloude Is there anye suche diuersitie M. Nowell in church seruice emongest religiouse men Or howe euer the same seruice be emongest them in this pointe diuerse that in some places it is longer and hathe therefore mo lessons Antiphones Responces then in other in some places shorter and therefore fewer whiche procedeth of this that some of these ordres being specially instituted to preache as the Dominicanes and those of the
vnderstande of the text written there being then when Christ spake these wordes neuer a word written and therefore must be taken to be ment as well of his worde vnwritten as written of tradition M. Nowell euen that worde of God that once shal iudge you So good be youre reasons and suche wise consequences depend thereon And yeat you ende with a checke as though you had giuen the mate and saye M. Doman auoide the contempte th◠you may escape the iudgement Nowe M. Nowell you haue proued no contempte and therefore I feare not the iudgement Let this be necke till you giue a better checke Of certeine externall furniture of the churche where with M. Nowell chargeth the catholikes to haue blinded the worlde Of the Scriptures being iudge in all controuersies The 21. Chapitre BECAVSE I desired that I might be suffered a little 22. by the readers patience to open to the worlde youre craftye dealing and to shake yow oute off youre maskers clouttes c. Yowe crie holde not the man for Goddes sake Nowell cet No haste but good sir youre fantasie feineth that reason Dorman neuer tolde you I call not the holye Scripture youre A lye 56. clouttes I refer me to the place for my discharge and to proue you a lyer but youre owne clouted gloses are the clowtes the maskers apparell the glittering showes the whiche I speake off and by the whiche yow blinde not onelye the ignoraunt but the wyser sorte allso To discharge youre selues hereof it is a world to see how workemanly you handle the matter by discoursing shortly vpon two pointes The first is that we by copes vestimentes gilted crosses cādelstickes deade mens and ofte deade beastes bones by cerimonies Nowell fol. 69. a. 13. minstrelfye belles banners and other bables haue so be witched and stroken blinde bothe the simple and manie of the wiser sorte also that neither they can see anie thing of Christe their sauiour nor here and vnderstande ought of his moste holie worde Yea that we haue compelled them in stede of the true worshipping of God to put all religion in the outewarde and dombe ceremonies and not to regarde the God off their Father The seconde is a iustifieng of youre religion by the losse which manie of youre parte haue susteined in the defence thereof of liues and libertie To the firste I make answere that the ceremonies and Dorman ornamentes wherewith you scornefuly twite vs were partely The vse of ceremonies reuerent ceremonies to stirre vp deuotion partlye cōly ornamētes to decke the house of God that euen by such outewarde meanes men might eftsones be put in remembraunce to vse no demeanure vnsemelye for that place So far was it from this that the people was hindred thereby from the vnderstanding of Christe and his holye worde that dull affections were muche whetted and colde deuotion not a little enflammed thereby Let the maners off men that liued in that age when these ceremonies and ornamentes were most in vse beare witnes betwene you and me whether they were anie hinderaunce to the knowledge of Christe and his worde or no. It is a sclaunderouse lye of youres to saie that we compelled men in the steede off the A l7e 57. true worshippe off God to put all religion in ceremonies cet As it is also till you can proue it that deade beastes bones were A lye 58. burnished ouer with burning golde But this is M. Nowelles rhetorike good reader After that he and his companions haue brought vs from firme faith to a rashe cōfidence from the truthe it selfe to signes and tokens from one faithe to a nombre of contrary schismes and sectes from the feare of God to a dissolute securitie from praieng and fasting to plaieng and banqueting from repentaunce and confession of oure sinnes to laughter and mockerye of that holie and moste necessarie sacrament after that they haue spoiled the churche of fiue holie sacramentes the other two whiche remaine being made but bare signes and tokens the one a piece of breade the other a badge or signe of Christianitie after they haue robbed God of his due honour the blessed sacrifice of his bodie and bloude the sainctes and friendes of God of their due worshippe the soules departed of all charitable reliefe after they haue spoiled the realme of moste godlie fundations monasteries colleages hospitalles almes houses commeth solemnelye this protestant proctour and reconuenteth vs for copes crosses candlestickes c. As for the seconde pointe M. Nowell it is not iwisse the fo 69. b. 1. imprisonment of heretikes not the death of your stincking martirs not all the Actes and monumentes of Fox that can proue one protestant to be a good catholike Doe not Catholikes also suffer imprisonment losse of goddes lacke of libertie wiues and childern Are they not in banishemēt in a strainge lande out of their own countrie then which there is no worldly thing the lacke wherof grieueth them more not in suche wealthe M. Nowell as Marchantes mainteined yow no one penie whiche we neither requier nor loke for but onelie note youre state and oures herein how different they are comming from them to vs. Haue not manie of them also suffred bitter deathe yea more dreadefull to vse also in this respect youre own wordes then is vsuall to felons murtherers or to most sauage noysome wilde beastes Let the drawing hanging and quartering of that nombre of holie fathers of the Charter house the cruell execution of that good olde man father Forest and of others let the deathe of those two most worthy pearles of Englande B. Fisher and Sir Thomas More let the deathe of diuerse Abbates religiouse men gentlemen and other testifie that Catholikes when deathe was offered haue not forsaken to dye for religion also But what Deathe meaketh not the cause good then M. Nowell is this a sufficient argument to proue the cause good No no M. Nowell if it were so yow Sacramentaries and Lutheranes shoulde be of all sectes lest estemed The Anabaptistes doe in this pointe go far beyonde yowe Who to this houre dailye suffer in all countries where they be to be founde And that deathe being tombled headlong in sackes into the water they suffer secretely Whiche maner of execution if it had bene practised vpon Lutheranes and Sacramentaries that without the sight of the worlde the admiration and applause of the brotherhode without glorie and renowne they might haue ended in this worlde their wretched lyues it is thought that manie of them had yeat liued either for worse or for better I might here bring the example of the Donatistes whose excessiue desire to dye and to seale with their bloude their heresies S. Augustin in diuerse of his epistles and in the later ende of his thirde boke against the epistle of Parmenianus dothe well declare But this that hath bene saide maye Tom. 7. suffise to conclude M. Nowell that if all England shoulde