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A16171 A disproofe of D. Abbots counterproofe against D. Bishops reproofe of the defence of M. Perkins reformed Catholike. The first part. wherin the now Roman church is maintained to be true ancient catholike church, and is cleered from the vniust imputation of Donatisme. where is also briefly handled, whether euery Christian can be saued in his owne religion. By W. B.P. and D. in diuinity Bishop, William, 1554?-1624. 1614 (1614) STC 3094; ESTC S102326 229,019 434

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the whole face of their church being as he raileth and writeth berayed with the filth of Idolatry if the church of Rome be such a monster as hee would make her I desire him to explicate in particular which be those fundamentall points that do constitute church a the true member of the Catholike church In the meane season it is pleasant to heare how roundly hee reckeneth vp without either staggering or blushing the Iolly agreement which hee takes to bee betweene their church and ours wee do not saith hee take vpon vs to bee any other church then that which they call the old but the same church reformed wee reteyne still the same scriptures which they acknowledge true saving that you haue cut of at one clap fiue books of the old testament wee retayne the same articles of faith which they professe you should for modesties sake haue added except some twentie or thirtie wee retayne the same sacraments of Baptisme and the supper of the Lord. Iust if bread and wine bee the same with the blessed bodie and bloud of Christ Besids how do wee agree about the other five Sacraments which wee retayne and you haue cast away They finally retaine the same forme of service except that they haue cut of the best parts of it and as it were pulled out the hart and bowells of the sacrifice and consecration leaving to themselues and their miserable followers onely the pa●ings and offals Behold the goodlie conformitie of the old and new English church of late devised and published by M. R. Abbot minister of the word and teacher of the reformed church of England Hee is so farr of as hee saies from Donatisme as that he doth teach the church never to haue perished no not in the City of Rome it self why then hath hee taken so much paines to proue the church of Rome to be turned Donatisticall vnles hee will now also in a very calme and pitifull humour allow even the Donatists church it self to haue been a part of the true Catholike church And so consequently like a good Atheisticall libertine allow all heretikes that professed Christs name to haue been true members of his church Hauing thus confuted that which M. Abbot had to obiect against their agreement in the maine point of the Donatists heresie I now come to the second resemblance that is betweene the Anabaptists an ofspring of the protestants and the Donatists who now do teach rebaptisation as the Donatists did then which M. Abbot granteth but saith my foolerie therin needeth no answere because the Anabaptists bee exploded out of all protestant churches And to that comparison which I made betweene the diuision of the protestants into Lutherans Sacramentaries and Anabaptists with the partition of the Donatists into Donatists Maximianists and Rogatists hee saith that I should rather haue devided Papists into Anabaptists secularists and Iesuists what voluntary light babling is this who ever before M. Abbot tooke the Anabaptists to bee papists when as they as stifly deny the popes authoritie the sacrifice of the Masse the reall presence the merites of good workes and most other articles of our religion as any other protestants And albeit they differ from the Sacramentaries in some few matters as the Sacramentaries do also from the Lutherans yet they bee descended from them and do agree with them in most points of religion wherfore they may bee aswell sorted and ranked with them as the Rogatists and Maximianists were with the Donatists neither will it helpe M. Abbot to say that they cast the Anabaptists out of their congregation For the Donatists did no lesse excommunicate and chace out of their churches the Maximianists and Rogatists then the Sacramentaries do the Anabaptists It was then rather a foolery of M. Abbots vpon so foolish a reason to deny the Anabaptists to belong vnto the common body of the protestants and more impudent folly is it to associate them to vs from whom they dissent further then the other protestāts do And because wee bee now entred into degrees of comparison let it bee taken for a superlatiue folly in M. Abbot to divide all men of our religion into Anabaptists Secularists and Iesuists for to returne the Anabaptists to themselues as their owne sweet brood with whom they consent against vs in most controversies of religion Do the other names of Secularists and Iesuists comprehend all Romane Catholikes bee there no lay Catholiks at all nor any other religious persons in our church besids secularists and Iesuists what was become of M. Abbots senses when hee wrote this The Seminarists and Iesuists being compared vnto all other Catholiks both religious and lay do scarse amount as I gesse vnto the thousand part of that body So that here M. Abbot infabling fumbling and confounding rather then in diuiding surmounts the highest degree of comparison R. ABBOT THE third resemblance that M. Bishop mentioneth is this They held not the faith of the blessed Trinitie entire For some of them like the Arrians taught the sonne of God to bee lesser then the father Though as S. Austin noteth this was not marked of their followers This hee applieth to vs in this sort sundrie of their principall teachers as Melancthon Caluin and others do corrupt the sound doctrine of the holy Trinitie as I haue shewed in the preface of my second part of the reformatiō of a deformed Catholike though the common sort of their followers do not greatly obserue it In which third point hee verie wilfully belieth S. Augustin the Donatists and vs. For S. Austin doth not saie that of the Donatists but only of a second Donatus who was a follower of the first who had an vnsound opinion of the Trinity which the Donatists were so farre of from approuing that there was scarse one among them that knew that hee thought so to him only is that to bee referred which S. Austin saith If any of them haue said that the sonne is lesser thē the father yet they haue not denied him to bee of the same substance S. Austin never vpbraided the Donatists with this error Aug. Epistola 50 though Theodoret do But hee spake by hearsay How M. Bishop dealeth with Melancthon Caluin and others I haue fully declared in my answere to that preface W. B. HERE is a whot charge and a peremptory condemnation before due examinatiō as you shall heare that I haue at one clap belied S. Austin the Donatists and their good Maisters Melancthon Caluin and others But if M. Abbot can make good no one of those imputations then it must bee granted that hee hath at once let slip a leash of slanderous lies Let vs descend to the particulars I write that S. Austin reporteth some of the Donatists to haue had a bad opinion of the blessed Trinity M. Abbot taketh mee vp short auouching that hee affirmeth that of a second Donatus onely well was not that second Donatus a great famous Donatist and had hee not many followers but not