in his chirche to make the chyrchâ— and the doctryne thereof knowen for trew Tyndale then vnder the false pretexte of fauour to goddes wrytynge blasphemeth all his vnwryten wordes and hym selfe to wyth callynge goddes myracles nothynge but dyuels wonders And this dotâ— Tyndale bycauâ—e he wolde not in any wyse that the chyrche hadde any credence farther then yt can proue by the wryten wordes of some apostle where he woteth well that thapostles wrote not all that they taught and also that god ordeyned his apostles for hys chyrch and not his chyrche for hys apostles and doth therfore more esteme and more sette by his chyrche then by any of his apostles or all the whole twelue to gether And yet wyll not Tyndale byleue for goddes word any thynge that the chyrch teacheth for his worde but yf he fynde it wryten in holy scrypture where as yf he byleue not the chyrch he caÌ„ neuer tell of any parte of scripture whyther it be holy scrypture or not But his dealynge well declareth wherfore he wold haue nothynge byleued wythoute scrypture The cause is none other but bycause he wolde haue nothynge byleued of no man but what he lyste hym selfe For he wyll not stykke to denye some parte of holy scrypture for holy scrypture and expowne all the remanaunt in suche false folyshe fashyon that among his other hundred heresyes he wolde make vs so madde to byleue that freres may wedde noÌ„nesâ— and that no man sholde wurshyppe the precyouse body holy blood of Cryste in the blessed sacrament of the auter And fynally thus ye se that Tyndale and suche other as wolde haue vs reiecte and refuse al that god hath taughte hys chirche but yf yt be proued by scrypture be not onely vnable to proue or defende that heresye but also do handle the scrypture yt selfe in suche a shamefull wyse that yf other men whom they reproue dyd not handle yt better yt hadde ben better to haue lefte all to gether vnwryten and neuer hadde scrypture at all And we muste nedes perceyue that wythout the bylyefe and credence geuen vnto the catholyke chyrche of Cryste we coulde be sure of nothynge but that as saynte Paule sayth the chirche is the pyller and strength of the trewth And thus ende I my thyrde boke coÌ„teynyng the answere of hys two specyall chapyters the tone whyther the worde were byfore the chyrche or the chyrch byfore the worde and the tother whyther the apostles lefte any thynge vnwryteÌ„ necessary to soule helth In whyche two poyntes as gloryousely as he glytered in his owne yâ—e euery man seeth now how fowle a fall he hath whereby more then halfe of hys heresyes are vtterly drowned in dyrâ— And now shall I god wyllyng in my fourth boke as sone as my tyme shall serue my so confute his false fayth and so shew whyche is the chyrche that I shall leue Tyndale neuer a chyrche for hys flokke but the chyrche wherof the the prophete speketh Odiui ecclesiam malignantiuÌ„ I haue hated the chyrche of malycyouse folke whyche chyrche is very proper for hym For all that euer Tyndale wryteth when it is well coÌ„sydered is powdered with malyce toward all good men bothe relygyouse that lyue here in erth sayntes that are lyuyng in heuen Thus endeth the thyrde boke ¶ The fawtes escaped in the pryntynge The fawtyâ— in the preface   The fawtes The amendementyâ— v. lefe â—â— syde A. vâ— takyng talkyng vj. lefe A. xij deth Hytton deth of Hytton the same lefe C.x. to an fro to and fro vii lefe.ii.â—yde B. xii Thymas Thomas viij lefe B. xiiij.iâ— England in England the same lefe .ii. syde A. iâ— and that and some that ix lefe A. ix accordyng to vnto accordyng vnto x. lefe.ii.syde B. iiij thas that xiiij lefe A. ij And thys And to thys xvj lefe B. iij â—efte fefte ¶ The fawtes in the Boke â— C.viij then them ix A.j. is that the is the ix C.j. salfe false xxviiâ— A. vj neth ned xxx C.xiiij man maner xxx C.xiiij penaus penauns xxxj C.vi sauaunt saruaunt xxxiiâ— B. xiâ— vncharmed charmed xl B.j. keth ked xliiâ— A. vj accoâ—â—yng the accordyng to â—he lâ— B.v. laâ—â—ed laâ—â—eth lij A. xi iâ— iâ— iâ—â— liiij B. xiiii loâ—t leâ—t lxv C.xiiii fyght leâ—acyon syght of the leuacyon lxxxix A. viii xv C. viii C. xc C.ix. preserue persecute xciii B. xii god good xcv C.ii. thanke thanked xcix B. xi and all at all cxxxi B. iii neyther eyther cxxxvi C.vi beche beseche cxl A. xi holy hole cl C.xiiii rather thys rather than thys clxxxiiii B.i. euery man to man perceyue euery man to perceyue clxxxviii C.i. vnto hym vnto them cxcvj C.xiiij them selfe them hym selfe cc. B. iii euer hath synnyâ— euer synnyâ— ccx B. vii may mary ccx C.iii. euery may euery man may ccxv B.v. neythe neyther ccxvi A.v. not care not ccxix B. iii euery very ccxxâ—ii C.xii. argument agrement ccxlâ—iii B. vii yf any of any ccxlâ—iii B. viii apofile apofiles ccxlvi B. vii for me fro me cclxv B. xii vnwryten otherwyse vnwryten eny otherwyse cclxâ—ii A. iii teacâ—e teache cclxxii A.v. say â—â— say yt cclxxiii B. ii at all and all cclxxvii B. iiii bowleâ— bowels ccxc C.v. be nother be no nother ccxcii A.v. Iuspicite Sâ—rutaminâ— cccvii A. ix heretyque heretyques cccxiiii A. xi cononyke canonyke cccxv B. vi them hym cccxvi C. xiiâ— where were ccxxi B. ix thyâ— lyghâ— â—ye lygh◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈…〉 〈…〉
¶ The cōfutacyon of Tyndales answere made by syr Thomas More knyght lorde chaūcellour of Englonde ¶ Prentyd at London By wyllyam Rastell 1532 CVM PRIV 〈…〉 ¶ The preface to the crysten reader OUr lorde sende vs nowe some yeres as plentuouse of good corne as we haue hadde some yeres of late plentuouse of euyll bokes For they haue growen so faste and sprongen vppe so thykke full of pestylent errours and pernyciouse he resyes that they haue enfected and kylled I fere me mo sely symple soules thē the famyne of the dere yeres haue destroyed bodyes And surely no lytle cause there is to drede that the great haboundaunce and plentye of the tone is no lytle cause and occasyon of the great derth and scarcite of the tother For syth that our lorde of his especyall prouydence vseth temporally to punyshe the hole people for the synnys of some parte to cōpell the good folke to forbere abhorre the noughty wherby they maye brynge them to amendement and auoyd them selfe the cōtagyō of theyr cōpanye wysdome were it for vs to perceyue y◠lyke as folke beginne now to delyte in fedyng theyr soules of the venemouse caryn of those poysened heresyes of whyche maye well be veryfyed the wordes of holy wryt 4. Regum 4. deth is in the pot our lorde lykewyse agaynwarde to reuenge yt wythall begynneth to wythdraw hys gracyouse hande from the frutes of the erth mynyshynge the fertylyte both in corne and catell and bryngynge all in derth myche more then men can remedy or fully fynde out the cause And yet bysyde thys somwhere he sendeth warre sykenesse and mortalyte to punyshe in the fleshe that odyouse and hatefull synne of the soule that spoyleth the frute from all maner of vertues I meane vnbylyefe false fayth and infydelyte and to tell you all at ones in playne englyshe heresye And I say that god nowe bygynneth For I fere me surely that excepte folke begynne to reforme that fawte the soner god shall not fayle in suche wyse to go forwarde that we shall well perceyue and fele by thencreace of our greyfe that all this gere hytherto is but a begynning yet The prophete Hely as it is wryten in the thyrde boke of kynges for the infydelyte and idolatry that then was vsed in Israell by his hartye prayour made vnto god kepte that whole cuntre frō rayne by the space of .iii. yeres and a halfe not of euyll wyll or malyce but of deuocyon and pytye by the payne pynchynge of the bodyes to compell men to remember they re soules whyche ellys were in parell of peryshynge by false idolatrye Nowe all be yt that these bolde shamelesse heretyques haue of longe whyle neyther letted nor ceaced falsely to insymulate and accuse the chyrche of god callynge all good crysten people idolatres for honourynge of sayntes and reuerēt byhauour vsed at theyr images yet that haue they done so farre agaynste theyr owne conscyence by whyche them selfe well wote that the chirche vseth to sayntes and ymages none honour but ordinate not honouryng images but for the sayntes sake nor sayntes but for the sake of god neyther image as saynte nor saynt as god this knoweth I say Tyndale hym selfe so well and thereby so farre hath rayled agaynste his owne conscyence that nowe at the laste in his answere to my boke he retreateth so farre bakke that he reuoketh almoste all that euer he sayde byfore is fayne now to graunte that cristen men may haue images knele byfore them to as ye shall hereafter se when we shall come to the place But we on the tother syde saye playnely vnto them that the thynges wherwyth they corrupte the worlde are of infydelyte and faythlesse idolatrye the very moste cursed kynde The chyefe euyll in an idole was that yt bare the name of god eyther yt selfe or the deuyll that yt represented and beyng so reputed and wurshyped for god robbed the reuerence and deuoute honour fro god Now when Tyndale calleth his heresyes by the name of fayth and maketh men serue the deuyll whyle they wene to serue god what abomynable idolatrye is this If yt be idolatry to put truste in the deuyll serue the deuyll wyth fayth yt is worse then idolatrye to make men wene they serue god wyth fayth whyle they dyspyte hym wyth a false bylyefe And yf it be very infydelyte to do as the Turkes do byd men byleue in Machometes alchoran yt is more infydelyte to do as Tyndale hath done purposely mysse translate Crystes holy gospell to sette forth heresyes as euyll as the Alchorane And yf it be idolatry to do as the paynēs dyd make an idole god yt muste nedes be myche worse idolatry to do as these heretykes do that call god the cause of all euyll and therby make god not a vayne idole but a very deuyll And what can be worse kynd of infydelyte◠then to make bokes of heresyes and call them the ryght fayth And what more abomynable infydelyte then to abuse the scrypture of god to the colour of theyr false bylyef◠And what can be a worse bylyefe then to byleue that the sacramentes that god hath ordeyned by his holy spyryte be but inuencyons of man or as Tyndale sayth of confessyon but inuencyon of the deuyll And what can be worse bylyefe then to byleue that goddes word is not to be byleued but yf yt be put in wrytyng Or what can be a worse bylyefe then to byleue y◠mennis good wurkes be they neuer so well done be yet nothyng worthe nor the man neuer the better for them nor no rewarde for them commyng towarde man in heuen Or what can be a wurse bylyefe thē to byleue that a man doth wronge to pray for hys fathers soule Or what can be a wurse bylyefe then to byleue that a man may as sleyghtely regarde whytson sonday◠as hokke monday and as boldely eate fleshe on good frydaye as on shroue tuysdaye And what can be a wurse bylyefe then to byleue that none other synne can dampne a man but onely lakke of bylyefe And yf yt be idolatrye to do as the Paynems do geue wurshyppe vnto an idole how myche is yt wurse then idolatrye to do as Tyndale doth forbed vs to geue wurshippe to the very bodye and blessed blood of god in the holy sacrament of the auter These pestylent infydelytees and these abominable kyndes of idolatryes farre excede◠and passe and incomparbly more offende the maieste of our lorde god then all the secretynge vppe of Beel and Baal and Belzabub and all the deuyls in hell wherfore lyke as in other places where these heresyes haue taken deper rote ben more sprede abrode god hath taken more depe and sore vengeaunce not onely by derth and deth but also by batayle and sworde so is yt to be fered that for the receypte of these pestylent bokes our lorde sendeth vs some lakke of corne and catayle for a begynnynge and wyll not fayle
please god then man But when Tyndale that ys an heretyke putteth for a rule of the peoples obedyence to a good crysten prynce that they be bounden to obay hys teranny yf yt be not agaynste his fayth I say that this his rule of obedyence ys a playne exhortacyon to dysobedyence and rebellion For euery man well seeth that Tyndale amonge many other abhominable heresyes techeth for the ryght faith that freres may lawfully wedde nuÌ„nys and that no man is bounden to the kepynge of any fastyng day or holyday made by the chyrch and that no man sholde pray to any saynte nor pray for all crysten soules and that yt is great synne to do any wurshyppe to crystys precyouse body in the blessed sacramente of the awter and wolde the people sholde kepe hys false translacyon of scrypture for mayntenance of these heresyes And therfore yf any prynce make a lawe againste Tyndales heresyes in any of these poyntes or suche other lyke Tyndale here teacheth thaâ— the people are not bouÌ„den to obay yt but may and must wythstande suche tyranny Or at the leste wyse though they be bouÌ„den peraduenture openly to obaye theyr pryncis tyranny in forberynge fleshe on good fryday or coÌ„mynge to goddes seruyce on whytsone sonday or freres in forberynge open weddynge with noÌ„nes in all which thinges they be yet by Tindales godly gospell at theyr euangelycall lybertie secretely to do what they liste theym selfe where no peace is brokeÌ„ nor any weke coÌ„science offended yet for any law or coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„t eyther of prynce or pope or generall counsayle of all crysten nacyons or of any angell that wolde come out of heuen to commaunde in goddys name yâ— coÌ„trary euery maÌ„ must kepe still Tyndales false translacyon of scrypture and abyde by hys other false bokes made for the mayntenaunce of hys manyfolde false heresyes And no man muste for no law nor commaundement pray to any saynt nor for any soule in purgatory nor kysse any relyque nor crepe to Crystes crosse nor do any worshyppe to Crystes blessed body and bloode in the holy sacrament of the aulter But yf any prynce wolde by any lawe or commaundement compelle hys people to any of those thynges then Tyndale here playnely teacheth them that they maye and muste styffely wythstande hys tyranny So that fynally coÌ„cernynge obedyence Tyndales holy doctryne is that the people sholde in the defence of hys false heresyes not let to dysobaye but stubernly to wythstande theyr prynce whych yf any man were so mad to do then were therfore in theyr obstynacye burned or otherwyse in theyr rebellyon slayne there were the tryumphe the greate reste and glory of Tyndales deuelysh prowde dyspytuouse harte to delyte and reioyce in the effusyon of suche peoples blode as his poysened bokes had myserably bywyched and from trew crysten folke turned into false wycked wreches Now to th entent that ye maye the more clerely perceyue the malycyouse mynde of these men and that theyr pestyleÌ„t bokes be bothe odyouse to god and dedely contagyouse to men and so myche the more perylouse in that theyr false he relyes wylyly walke forth vnder the counterfayt vysage of the trew crysten fayth thys is the cause and purpose of my present labour wherby god wyllyng I shall so pull of theyr gaye payâ—ted vysours that euery man lystyng to loke theron shall playnely perceyue and byholde the bare vgly gargyle facys of theyr abomynable heresye And for bycause the mater is longe and my leysour seld shorte I can not as I fayne wolde sende out all at ones but yf I sholde kepe styll all togyther by me lenger then me thynketh conuenyeâ—t I sende out now therfore of thys present worke these thre bookes fyrste In the fyrst of whyche I answere Tyndales preface made before his answere to my dyaloge whiche preface of hys is in a maner an introduccyoÌ„ into all his heresyes The seconde boke is agaynst hys defence of hys translacyon of the new testament The thyrde agaynst two chapyters of Tyndales answere the tone whythet the word were afore the chyrche or the chyrche afore the worde the tother whyther the apostles lefte any thynge vnwryten necessary to saluacyon wheruppon greate parte of all hys heresyes hange Now shall I god wyllyng at my nexte leysor go ferther in hys booke and come to the very brest of all this batayle that is to wyt the questyon whyche is the chyrche For that is the poynt that all these heretyke by all the meanes they may labour to make so darke that by theyr wyllys no man sholde wyt what they meane But I truste to drawe the serpent out of hys darke denne and as the poetes fayne that Hercules drew vppe Cerberus the mastyffe of hell into the lyght where hys eyen dased so shall I wyth the grace of that lyght whych illumyneth euery man that cometh in to this worlde make you that mater so lyghtsome and so clere to euery man that I shall leue Tyndale neuer a darke corner to crepe into able to hyde hys hed Then after that I haue so clerely confuted Tyndale coÌ„cernynge that poynt and shall haue playnely proued you the sure and stedfaste authoryte of Crystes catholyke knowen chyrche agaynste all Tyndales tryflynge sophystycacyons whyche he wold sholde seme so solempne subtyle insolubles whyche ye shall se proued very frantyke folyes after thys done I say before I go ferther wyth Tyndale I purpose to answere good yong father Fryth whych now sodaynly commeth forth so sagely that .iii. olde men my brother Rastell the bysshoppe of Rochester I matched wyth father Fryth alone be now but very babys and as he calleth vs insipientes But thus goth the worlde forth bytwene Fryth and vs. He encreaceth I se well as fast as we decay For ones I wene the yongeste of vs thre thre dayes ere father Fryth was borne had lerned within a lytle as mych as father Fryth hath now How be it I shall leue yonge father Fryth in his pryde glory for the whyle But wheÌ„ Tindale is ones in yâ— article touchyng the chyrch coÌ„futed theÌ„ hath Frith alredy concernynge purgatory clerely lost the felde and all hys welbeloued boke is not worth a bâ—ton though it were all as trew as it is false For then is the fayth of the chyrche in that poynt infallyble or at the lest vnculpable were there scrypture therfore or not And no scrypture can there proue the very trew chyrch to holde an artycle as trew fayth that were in dede dampnably false And yet shall I for all that go ferther wyth yonge father Fryth and to wch yf god wyll euery parte of hys freshe paynted boke and so shall I plukke of I truste the moste gloryouse fethers from hys gaye pecoks tayle that I shall seue hym yf he haue wyt and grace a lytell lesse delyghte lykynge in hym selfe then he semeth now to haue whyche thynge hath hytherto made hym for to stande not a lytell in hys owne lyght I praye
the auter For as mych as he seeth that the masse is the speciall thyng in whych the sacrament of the auter is honored in which yt is moste frutefull in so mych as there the very body and bloode of our lorde is not onely receyued by the preste hym selfe and for hym selfe but is also for his owne synnys and other mennys to offred vppe to god as an holy hoost oblacyon and sacryfycye representyng the same sacryfyce in whych our sauyour both beyng the preste and the sacryfyce offred vp hym selfe for the synne of the world vnto his father in heuen and acceptable sacryfyce vppon his paynfull crosse therfore doth Tyndall after his maysters doctryne â—este and rayle and make mokkes at the masse wherof these be his wordes Tyndale What helpeth yt that the preste when he goeth to masse â—â—sgyseth hym selfe wyth a great parte of the passyon of Cryste and playeth oute the reste vnder sylence wyth sygnes and profers wyth noddynge beckynge and â—owynge as yt were â—acke a â—aâ—â—s when nether he hym selfe nether any man else woteth what he meaneth nor whereof no man can gyue a good reason as he saythe sone after More Here he mokketh and playeth hym selfe as ye se in mokkynge these holy ceremonyes vsed as well in thapparell of the preste as in the secretes of that holy sacryfyce whyche he sayth do no good but mych hurt and make men superstycyouse bycause as he sayth there they haue the more deuocyon therby therfore he wold haue them lâ—â—te as though the deuocyon that is increased by the beholdynge of those holy ceremonyes were superstycyon bycause they vnderstande them not If Tyndale say trew in this then dyd god by hys owne coÌ„maundement make his chosen people of Israel to fall in to suê‘stycyon in stede of deuocyon wyth the ceremonyes vsed aboute the sacrafyces in the olde lawe bycause they vnderstode them not After this he mengleth hys lyes therwyth saynge that crysten menne thynke that they haue done habundauntly ynough for god ye and deserued aboue measure yf they be present on s in a day at such a mummynge More what may not such a man be bolde to saye that is not a shamed to lye so shamefully for he knoweth that all the readers well know that he lyeth when they rede yt and yet he is not ashamed to wryt yt what man wolde be so folysh to thynke that he hath done ynough for god yet layeth he a nother incommodyte that the infydelys wyll mokke vs and abhorre vs in that they se nothyng but suche apes playe amonge vs whereof no man can geue a reason Lo what an hygh reason hath Tyndale here fouÌ„de out yâ— such holy ceremonyes wherof Crystes chyrch hath receyued many by the blessed apostles them selfe from theyr dayes vsed euer hytherto as apperyth by the wrytyng of holy doctours far aboue a thousand yere a go we muste now geue ouer for fere left infideles as Turkes and Saracens wold lerne of Tyndale to mokke vs for them because we can not tell them a good reason for eche of them Be ye sure this ys a ryght solemne reason and Luther in dede maketh a mych lyke so that ye may se that they haue wayed it well bytwene them or ellys Tyndale wolde not after so longe a laysour alledge yt agayne so solemnely But now wold I wyt of wyse Tyndale whyther yf men could and dyd gyue a good reason vnto Iewes Turkes Saracens and Paynyms as for ensample such causes as Tyndale telleth some for great hydde mysteryes that no maÌ„ could tell but he whych he set out late of a good frerys boke called Rationale diuinorum shewyng what sygnyfyeth the albe the amys and stole and so forth wold theâ— all the Iewes Turkes Saracens and other infydelys hold them selfe satisfyed mokke no more yf they so wolde theÌ„ were they all mych lesse infydeles theÌ„ Tyndale is for he hath sought out such thynges and yet mokketh styll How be yt that is lytle meruayle For in dede he bryngeth all such thynges forthe but for to make mokkes at them But then wold I wyt of wyse Tyndale farther whyther yf all these infydeles that he speketh of as Iewes Turkes and Saracens were present at the masse and no such ceremonye at all vsed thereat but onely knelynge knokkynge on brestes and holdyng vp of haÌ„des at the syght leuacyon and receyuynge of that blessed sacrament and that thereuppon merueylynge on the manner therof they were tolde the very trouth that the cause of all this reuerent behauour is bycause that there vnder that forme of brede and wyne is the very blessed body and blood of oure sauyour hym selfe the same that hynge vppon the crosse when he suffred his passyon for our redempcyon wold those infydeles then holde them selfe all content and neuer mokke at yt more Naye will none of them besyde the blessed sacrament mokke at all the hole mater both at the incarnacyon deth resurreccyon and all Lo thus ye se good crysteÌ„ readers that by Tyndales reason we must caste of clene all our hole fayth leste such infydelys as hym selfe is shold make mokkes there at as he doth what crysteÌ„ eares can abyde such blasphemouse foly yet wolde some vnwyse man wene peraduenture that Tyndale dothe for all this not meane any thynge agaynste these holy ceremonyes of the masse but onely mokketh the preest bycause he speketh not all the secretes of the masse a lowde and also bycause he teacheth not all yâ— paryshe what all those cerymonyes meane Surely there nedeth no man to dowte but he that can fynd in his herte to make such mokkes vppon the deuoute obseruaunces vsed so many hundred yeres about the masse hath a lewde bestely mynde agaynste the very sacrament yt selfe But yet to th ende that euery man may se yt the more clerely ye shall perceyue by his owne wordes that accordyng to Luthers bablynge in his boke of Babilonica Tyndale teacheth playnely that the blessed sacrament is in the masse no sacryfyce none hoste nor none oblacyon by whych abomynable herefye he taketh â—uyte a way the very speciall profet and frute of all the masse These be his very wordes Tyndale There is a worde called â—n latyne â—â—cerdos in greke hiereâ—s in hebrue cohaâ— that is a mynyster an offycer a sacryfycer or a preste as Aâ—â—on was a preest and sacryfyced for the peple and was a mediatour beâ—wene god and theÌ„ and â—â— the englyshe shuld yt haue had some other name then preest But Antecristâ— hath deceyued vs wyth vnknowen and straunge termes to brynge vs in to confusyon and superstycyous blyndnes Of that maner is Criste a preest for euâ—r and all we prestes thorow hym and nede no more of any such preest on erth to be a meane for vs vnto god More By these wordes yese that where as the prestes in the old law offred sacryfyces for the people and that of dyuerse 〈◊〉 des as appereth in Leuitici and Numeri and other placâ—s
of holy scrypture in stede of all whyche sacryfyces Cryste hath in his new law instytuted one onely sacryfyce his own blessed bodye and blood to be offered vp to his father for his people by the handes of the preest in forme of brede wyâ—ne of whych holy offerynge in the masse nowe the offerynge of Melchisedech that offred bred and wyne Câ—â—â— 14 was a solemne figure Tyndale telleth vs here that bycause Crist is a preste for euer and that all we be prestes thorow hym man woman ye muste vnderstande we nede therfore he saythe no more of any such preste on erth that sholde be a meane betwene god and the people to offer vp any sacryfyce to god for the people For he sayth farther that Cryste hath 〈◊〉 vs in to the inner teÌ„ple wythin the veyle and vnto the mercy stole of god and 〈◊〉 coupled vs vnto god where we offer euery man for hym selfe the desyres and petycyons of his herte and do sacryfyce and kyll the lustes and appetytes of his fleshe wyth prayour fastynge and all maner of golâ—y lyuynge More wyth these gay glytterynge wordes wolde Tyndale so blere our eyen that he wold make vs to reken our selfe taken in so nere to god and so coupled wyth hym that eueÌ„ vppon god almyghtyes mercy stole we offer euery man so suffycyently for hym selfe the desyres and petycyons of his hart and so suffycyently sacryfyce and kyll the iustes and appetes of his fleshe wyth prayour fastynge and all manner of good lyuynge that we nede now no preste as meane betwene god and vs to offer vp for vs to god the holy hoste and sacryfyce of all sacryfyces the blessed bodye and blood of our holy sauyour Cryste This is the goodnesse that he bryngeth all his holy processe to And where as in other places all is nought among vs and all is but synne yet here leste we sholde nede the sacryfyce of the masse we be all goddes good sonnes kyll and sacrifyce full well the lustes and appetytes of our flesh wyth prayour fastynge and all manner of godly lyuynge How be it when Tyndale sayth that we offer our desires of our harte at god almyghtyes mercy stole that we kyll and sacryfyce the lustes of our fleshe with prayour fastyng and all godly lyuynge he meaneth none of vs peuysshe popysshe popystes but the lyuely lyghtsome Lutheranys For they perde as ye se by Luther hym selfe and hys holy noÌ„ne kylle sacryfyce theyr flesshely lustes with prayour fastynge and mych godly lyuynge euery man and woman woteth how I meruayle yet in what place of scrypture Tyndale fyndeth that men sacryfyce theyr synnes we fynde that men offer sacryfyce for synne and that men kyll synne and then peraduenture offer them selfe clene depured from synne But to offer vppe synne in sacryfyce me semeth it is a very stynkyng sacryfyce and of suche a scryptured man not very scrypturely spoken But therfore Tyndale turneth those .ii. wordes out of theyr ryght frame to iugle and blere our yieÌ„ wythall For he sayth not that we kyll and sacryfyce oure flesshely lustes leste we sholde haue spyed that it were no metely sacryfyce But he sayth that we sacryfyce and kyll them as though that in the olde lawe men had ben wont to sacrifyce the bestes fyrst and burne them vppe hole or ellys burne parte and eate parte and then kyll them after But Tyndale careth not how he set hys wordes so that he maye make vs to byleue that we nede no preest to offer vppe dayly the same sacryfyce that our sauyour offred onys and hath ordayned to be by the prestes perpetually offred in hys chyrche For thys is hys labour to take out of our bylefe and thys is Luthers labour of whom he lerned it in hys booke of Babilonica And for this cause be they wroth wyth the holy canon of the masse bycause the sacrament is in the masse called as it is in dede a sacryfyce an hooste an oâ—Ì„rynge Thys wolde they haue vs leue of for the onely spyghte that they bere to preesthed bycause they se that in thys poynt that holy order of preesthed hath an excellent pryuylege in whyche none angell hath the lyke authoryte And all be it that Tyndale telleth vs many tymes as the man is somwhat shamelesse that we wyll not byleue saynt Hierom saynt Austyne saynt Ambrose saynt Gregory and the other olde holy doctours of Crystes chyrche yet knoweth Tyndale that in thys one poynt amonge many other they be quyte agaynste hym euerychone And bycause it wolde here make a longe worke to reherse many of theyr wordes therfore that Tyndale shall not denye but that I therin saye trewth I shall alledge hym Luther hys owne mayster whyche in hys booke of Babilonica playnly confesseth the same and answereth it wyth saynge that the gospell of god is playne agaynste them all as thoughe that amonge them all eyther neuer none had redde the gospell of god or ellys neuer none had vnderstaÌ„den it but hym self And then agaynst them all he construeth that gospell so folysshely that afore god a man wolde wene almoste that a goslynge had as mych wyt as he And yet now wolde hys wyse dyscyple Tindale haue vs for his pleasure in hatered of the order of preesthed byleue that the preest doth at the masse make none offryng of yâ— holy sacryfyce for our synne wyth whyche heresye he clene taketh awaye the very frute of the masse in whiche that blessed sacrament is both moost honored of the people and is also most profytable to the people But yet shall ye se ferther that as fayre as he couereth hym selfe in hys spekynge of thys holy sacrament in some other places yet in some he sheweth his affeccyon full well for these are hys wordes Tyndale The sacrament of Crystes body after this wyse preche they ye maye 〈◊〉 peâ—â—ceyue 〈◊〉 thâ—◠〈…〉 Tynâ—â—â—â— Thou muste byleue that it is no more brede but the very body of Cryste flesshe blood and bone euen as he went here on erthe saue his cote For that is here yet I wote not in how many places More Is not here a fayre mokkynge maner in rehersynge of that holy sacrament But yet to couer his infydelyte he maketh here a colour as though he were angry that they teche no more But he is angry in dede that they teche so mych or ellis coude he neuer fynd in his herte to speke so mokkeshly of such a mater as he doth For euery man well knoweth that where he maketh after as though they whiche teche the people thys dyd not teche them also the profyte of the receyuyng nor the promyse of god he doth vntrewly belye them For who is there so symply taught but that he well vnderstandeth that the receyuyng of the holy body of our lord in suche wyse as men are taughe to receyue it is holsome to the soule and that by goddys ordynaunce And therfore is in Tyndale but
a shamelesselye wherof euery man well knoweth the contrarye wolde god hym self beleued as well of this holy sacrament as the sympleste lerned preest in a contrey teacheth his paryshe whych yf he dyd his herte I dare saye wolde not serue hym so folyshely to ieste therat For he speketh there of prechynge of ê“mise for no other cause but onely to bryng in his worshypfull ieste of our lordis holy body beyng in the sacrameÌ„t to say he is there all saue his cote Of whych holy sacrameÌ„t he that iesteth so beleueth of lyklyhed that there is no more of his body there theÌ„ of his cote I haue in his boke of obedyeÌ„ce coÌ„sydered his wordes of this holy sacrament I haue aduysed theÌ„ the better for certayne wordes that I haue herd of hym I se not one worde by whych he may be bounden to saye that euer he confessed yt to be the very body and blood of Cryste How be yt yf he had yt were not yet wyth that sorte mych the surer For they maye do as theyr mayster hath saye the contrarye after and when they say worse theÌ„ tell vs that they haue sene more synnys and lerned better How be yt he is in dede comen to that poynt all redy as ye shall perceyue by his wordes in his boke made agaynste me wherof I shall reherse you parte anon And yet we nede not mych more profe wheÌ„ we se that he mokketh at yâ— masse and wolde haue no preest at all nor the sacrament to be taken as a sacryfyce and now iesteth vppon the doctrine that teacheth vs to byleue that in the sacrament is the blessed bodye and blood of our lorde to turne yt to a mokke ye sayth this fole all saue his cote a worshyppefull ieste in a crysten mannes mouth that mouth is more mete in dede for sand then holy salt What auayseth sayth he to teache folke this that the very bodye and bloode of our lorde is in that sacrameÌ„t the deuyll knoweth that Criste dyed on a frydaye and the Iewes to and what are they the better we haue a promyse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 why steppeth he from thexample of the same sacrament why saythe he not the deuyll knâ—weth this to be trewe that vnder the forme of brede is Cristes owne bodye and yet the deuyll is neuer yâ— better Surely bycause hym selfe beleueth that the deuyll knoweth yt not at all nor god neyther And for bycause he wold not yet haue vs therin ê‘ceyue his miÌ„de to the vttermoste he ioyned the Iewes wyth the deuyll to fâ—e fro the sacrament to the fryday where he myght haue seuered them and spoken of both or ellys wyth the Iewes the deuyll he myght haue ioyned hym selfe and haue bounden all thre in a bundell For he byleueth lesse then the tone and is as malycyouse as any of them both yet to th enteÌ„t that ye may perceyue clerely that he is playne of Luthers heresye that the sacrament of the auter is very brede styll ye shall vnderstande that where as I in my dyaloge reherse Luthers heresyes and amonge other thys heresye that I now speke of Tyndale in hys answere affyrmeth Luthers heresye for good and trew sayeng That that is broken and that the preste â—ateth wyth his teth is yt not brede what is yt elles And after those wordes he goth forth in iestynge mokkynge god wote full lyke hym selfe And sone after in a nother place he sayth in defense of Luthers heresye bycause he wold haue folke set lesse therby haue lesse reuerence therunto It were a perilouse case yf men and women touched yt bycause the 〈◊〉 hath not oyled them And afterwarde he sayth At Oxforde aboute the sacrament was no smale question of late dayes whyther yt were brede or none some affermyng that the flowre wyth longe lyenge in water was turned in to starch More what a cankerd mynde this heretyque hath there can I trow no man dowte that hereth what folysh gaudes he deuyseth vppon it of his own frantyque hed For yf euer there were any such folysh fantasye spoken there yt was by hym selfe one or twoo wretched felows of his owne secte syttynge and blasphemynge god vppon theyr ale benche But now shall ye yet more playnely se to what poynt he goth aboute to brynge you Tyndale It is the sacrament of Crystes bodye and blood and Cryste calleth yt the new and euerlastynge testament in his blood and commaundeth that we shuld so do in the remembraunce of hym that his bodye was broken and his blood shede for our synnes And Paule commaundeth therby to shew or preache the lordes deth They say not pray to yt neyther put any fayth therin For I maye not beleue in the sacrament but I muste beleue the sacrament that yt is a true sygâ—e and yt true that is sygnyfyed thereby whych is the onely worshyppynge of the sacrament yf ye geue yt other worshyppe ye playnely dyshonour yt as I maye not beleue in Crystes chyrche but beleue Cristes chyrch that the doctryne whych they preache of Cryste is true If ye haue any other doctrine teache vs a reason and leade vs in syght and we wyll folowe More No man can desyre better knowledge of hym then he sheweth of hym selfe in these wordes For here he sheweth playnly that though to blere our yies wythall he calleth it the sacrament of Crystes body and blood and his new and euerlastyâ—ge testament in hys bloode and sayth that we be commaunded by saynt Poule therby to preche the lordes dethe yet he wylâ— not in any wyse yâ— men shall praye therto nor put any fayth therin And it is no dowte but he yâ— hath that mynde byleueth nothyng at all that it is the very body of Cryste wherwyth hys holy soule is coupled and hys almyghty godhed ioyned from whyche fro the fyrst assumpcyoÌ„ therof it was neuer seueryd And therfore vnto all hys other gaye gloryouse wordes he hath a false glose by whyche he meaneth that the blessed sacrament is nothynge els but a token a fygure ordayned for a remembrauns of Cryste and not the very body and bloode of hym selfe It is also to be noted whereuppon he grouÌ„deth this holy precepte of hys that men sholde not praye to the sacrament nor put any fayth therin He sayth bycause that the scrypture doth not commaunde it therfore it is dyshonoure to the sacrament to do it Doth not these wordes alone teche vs suffycyently to knowe the myscheyfe of that heresye by whych they say that there is nothyng to be byleued without playn and euydent scrypture when we se now yâ— Tyndale vppon that doctryne of hys forbedeth vs to honour the holy sacrament of the autre ye may se now that Tyndale vttered not all his false ware at onys For fyrst he bygan wyth ymages then wyth relyques then wyth sayntes that we maye wurshyppe none of all these And now at laste he techeth vs that we maye not worshyppe Crystes owne body
euer are vnwryten are no lawes But now in my name he answereth hys questyon and then confuteth that answere Tyndale Bycause they sholde not come to the handes of the hethen for mokkynge sayth mayster More I praye you what thynge more to be mokked of the hethen coude they teache then the resurreccyon and that Cryste was god and man and dyed betwene two theues and for his deths sake all that repente and byleue therin sholde haue theyr synnes forgyuen them ye and yf the apostles vnderstode therby as we do what madder thyng vnto hethen people coude they haue taught then that brede is Crystes body and wyne his bloude And yet all these thynges they wrote And agayne purgatory confessyon in the eare penauÌ„ce and satysfaccyon for synne to godwarde with holy dedes and prayenge to sayntes with suche lyke as dome sacramentes and ceremonyes are maruelouse agreable vnto the superstycyon of the hethen people so that they neded not to abstayne from wrytynge of them for feare lest the hethen sholde haue mocked them More Thys was an happy happe for mayster Tyndale that it happed mayster More wyth the layenge of suche a slender cause to mynyster mayster Tyndale so mych pleasaunt mater of replycacyon For yf I had not happed to haue sayed that the apostles forbare the wrytynge of some thynges for estewynge of infydeles mokkynge Tyndale had had now no more to saye but had lâ—â—te of wyth shame inough where as now by thys poynt he hath occasyon of mych mater and wynneth mych wourshyppe therwyth But now yf I wolde be content to saye that I was ouer seen in so sayenge and that I can not defende my wordes that they forbare to wryte any maner thyng for any such cause â—nd that also I can not tell why nor for what cause the apoles wrote some necessary thynges and lefte some necessary â—â—â—nges vnwryten no more then I can tell why that euery eâ—angelyste wryteth many thynges that hys felowes haue and yet lâ—â—eth out some as greate and as necessary as some that hâ— wâ—â—â—â—â—h in yf I wolde for Tyndales pleasure saye thys â—hâ—câ—â— yâ— I dyd I neded not mych to force for any greate haâ—â—â— that my parte could take therby for yâ— thynge were in it selfe neuer the lesse trewe that the apostles so dyd in dede though I coude not tell why then hadde I taken away quyte all Tyndales pleasure in his present bablyng and lefte hym onely to those reasons that he hath layed before in all whych he is as ye se to shamefully confounded But yet yf it lyke you good readers to rede myn owne wordes as I wrote theÌ„ which ye shall fynde in the fyrst boke of my dyaloge the .xxv. chapyter there shall ye perceyue it that it is not fully so farre from all reason as Tyndale wolde haue it seme For I shew there that the apostles dyd more playnely speke and more opeÌ„ly declared many thinges by mouth amonge the crysten folke bycause theyr audyence was more mete whyle they were onely amonge them selfe then they dyd by theyr wrytynge whyche myghte percase come in to the handes of hethen men that wold laugh some such thynges to scorne Now cometh Tyndale and sheweth that thys is fondely sayed syth the apostles letted not to wryte the thynge that the hethen wolde moste mokke of all and that purgatory and the sacramentes were lest lykely to be mokked amonge them for that they were most agreable vnto theyr owne superstycyon But now lest he sholde haue combred hym selfe somwhat wyth the answere and haue defaced therwyth the bewtye of hys owne tale he leueth out here all suche thynges as I layd in that place for the profe How be it those thynges wyll yetâ— I truste serue me suffyâ—yentely agaynste all Tyndales scoffes Amonge whyche yet where he weneth that he speketh wyseste he helpeth me so in what hym selfe euyn here vnware For fyrste though I coude not tell why they wrote somwhat that the hethen men wyll mokke yet leue out somwhat lest they sholde mokke though I coude not I saye tell why they dyd thys yet is it inough yf I proue that they so dyd in dede For the profe wherof I maye laye and so dyd in my dyaloge whych Tindale here leueth out that not onely saynt Peter so dy◠〈◊〉 the seconde chapyter of the actys Actuum 2 where he forbaâ—e â—o call Câ—yâ—t god lest it sholde haue hyndred the fayth in that audyenâ—â— but that our sauyour dyd the same hym selfe in the many 〈◊〉 preachynge of hys godhed aâ— appâ—reth in theâ—â— câ—apyteâ— of saint IohnÌ„ Now syth ye se thâ—t thus thâ—â— dyâ— in dede whâ—â— nedeth me to caâ—e for all Tyndales whyâ—s 〈◊〉 they 〈◊〉 bare thys where was lesse cause to â—ere and whâ— the◠〈◊〉 thys where was more cause to fere syth he can 〈…〉 but that they so dyd am I bounden to gyue the rekenynge why and wherfore they so dyd This dare I be bolde to say that they neuer taught thynge of dyffyculte be wrytynge but that they taught yt more playnely by mouth by whych explanacyons by mouth the people cam into the vndouted trouth and fayth of the mater were the wrytynge neuer so full of doute For the profe wherof Tyndale hath here as I sayed byfore by reason of his heresye wyth false vnderstandynge of saynt Paule brought forth a ryght good sample For thus he sayeth Tyndale ye and yf the apostles vnderstode therby as we do what madder thyng vnto the hethen people coulde they haue taught then that brede is Crystes bodâ—e and wyne his blood and yet all these thynges they wrote More Lo here ye se that Tyndale hym selfe dowteth vppon saynt Poules wordes whyther he ment as we do whyche yet meane not as Tyndale doth that brede is Crystes bodye and wyne his blood so that the brede and wyne styll remayne as Tyndale sayeth that the apostles wryte but that the brede wyne is conuerted and chaunged into Crystes body and blood and that by what wordes so euer the apostles wryte yt yet that is the thynge that they meane that all be yt that they haue wryten yt playne inough in scrypture yet bothe Cryste and they wyth many wordes so clerely dyd declare yt by mouth that in that artycle neyther then nor neuer after was there any doute arose tyll that these heretykes here now of late yeres make dowtes vppon the wrytynge contrary to the declaracyon made by Cryste and his apostles and well and surely writeÌ„ in mennys hartes fourtene hundred yere byfore Such parell is yt lo to fall froÌ„ the vndouted fayth vnto the dyspycyons of the scrypture whyche by the fayth is vnderstanden as the scrypture yt selfe For lykewyse as yt sayth playnely scrutamini scripturas serche ye in scrypture so sayth yt as playnely nisi credideritis non intelligetis but if ye byleue ye shall not vnderstande And here ye se that though Tyndale wyll not coÌ„fesse that the apostles lefte any thyngâ—
vnwryten nor that they wrote any thynge the more coueâ—â—â—â—â—or the mokkynge of the Hethen yet he sayth hym selfe that tâ—e apostle wrote so that men myght doute what they meâ—â—â— Aâ—d that I â—are well say that in the crysten flokke they presently so farreforth declared yt that they lefte no such doute therin And also dare I say that they taught thinges by mouth whyche they wrote not parte for the cause afore sayde parte for that yt neded not and thys I saye boldely For though Tyndale saye nay â— Corinth 11. yet saynt Poule sayed yes hym selfe when he wrote vnto the Corinthianes caetera quum venero ipse disponam the other thynges I wyll dyspose or order when I come my selfe But the sacramentes so sore greue Tyndales sore yien that he may not abyde the syght of them therfore he goth on agaynste them styll Tyndale More ouer what is yt that the apostles taught by mouth and durst not write the sacramentes As for baptyme and the sacrament of the body and blood of Cryste they wrote and yt is expressed what is sygnyfyed by them And also all the ceremonyes and sacramentes that were from Adam to Cryste hadde sygnifycacyons and all that are made mencyon of in the new testament Wherfore in as mych as the sacramentes of the old testament haâ—e sygnyfycacyons and in as mych as the sacramentes of the new testament of whyche mencyoâ— is made that they were delyuered vnto vs by the very Apostles at Crystes coÌ„maundement haue also sygnifycacyons and in as mych as the offyce of an apostle is to edefye in Cryste and in as mych as diuyne ceremonye edefyeth not but hurteth all to gether for yf yt preache not vnto me then I can not but put confydence therin that the dede yt selfe iustyfyeth me whyche is the denyenge of Crystes blood and in as mych as no mencyon is made of them as well as of other ner is knowen what is ment by theÌ„ therfore yt appereth that thapostles taught them not but that they be the false marchandyce of wylye hypocrytes More If a man rede ouer these wordes and examine them not he maye be sone abused But who so well way them and consyder euery parte shall sone perceyue that this processe ys fylled vppe wyth malyce falsed and foly Fyrste he wolde that bycause the apostles haue writen the two sacramentes that is to wyt baptysme the sacrameÌ„t of the auter and the sygnyfycacyons of them and of the tother fyue as he sayth haue not wryten he wolde I saye therfore that we sholde take yt as proued that the other â—yue were no dyuine sacramentes nor delyuered to the chyrche by Cryste nor hys apâ—stles Now is this argumenâ— though his antecedenâ— were trew yet as wysely concluded as this is of the lawes of â—â—glande Men haue wryteÌ„ some ergo they haue wâ—â—ten aâ—â—â— By the tytle of his chapyter he taketh in hande to proue that the apostles haue lefte no necessary thynge vnwryten And now he proueth yt by that that they haue wryteÌ„ some For of his reason ye of all his reasons in concluâ—yon this is the hole somme whyche somme what effecte yt hath euery fole may se but yf Tyndale proue me farther that the apostles promysed that they wolde wryte all wherof saynte IohnÌ„ professeth playne the contrarye and so dothe saynte Poule to Now yet in this reason of his as faynte and as feble as yt is he is fayne to psuppose false For he presupposeth that of any of the remanauÌ„t the apostles haue not writen whych is so playne false that yf there were any shame in hym he myght not for shame say yt Of coÌ„fyrmacyon wryteth saynt Luke in the actes playnely saynte Poule to the Hebrues as playnely Aâ—â— 8. Heâ—re 6. 〈◊〉 â— 1. Timâ—â—â— 4. 〈◊〉 5. Mâ—rc â— Of matrimony and presthed saynt Poule manyfestly the tone to the Ephesyes the tother to Timothe Anelynge saynt Iames and saynt Marke in the gospell also And of penaunce and the partes thereof euery man all moste in euery parte of scrypture And this thynge Tyndale so well knoweth and that yt hath bene so often so playnely proued vnto them that they coude neuer yet nor neuer shall whyle they lyue be able to wythstande yt neyther wyth scrypture nor wyth reason but wyth raylynge and bablynge And therfore as I say this knoweth Tyndale so well that yt is more theâ— shame for hym now so to wryte as though the apostles hadde neuer wryten of them whyche yf they neuer had done in dede yet were the sacrameÌ„tes sure inough whych hange vppon godâ—es worde as sure as all theyr wrytynge and of whych vnwryten worde we be certayne sure by the selfe same meanes by whyche we knowe theyr bokes for holy wrytynge that is to wyt by the relacyon of the catholyque chyrche of Cryste and by the spiryte of god that ledeth the chyrche in to the bylyefe of the trouth ledeth euery well wyllynge person a parte into the byleuynge of the catholyque chyrch by the belyuyng of the chyrch into the ryght bylyefe of euery necessary trouth by the groundes therof fyrste hadde into the ryght vnderstandynge of holy scrypture whereby the fayth byfore had is more and more fastely confeâ—med and wyth out which fayth byfore hadde the wyt of â—an myght abuse the scrypture to the occasyon of infydelyte and â—nfaythâ—ullnesse But yet bycause I wolde be loth that Tyndale myght say that I mysse take hym in any thyng and then grounde my reason agaynste hym vppon my owne mysse takynge of his wordes I wyll yet a lytle examyne his wordes better when he sayth that the remanaunt of the sacrameÌ„tes bysyde baptysme and the sacrament of the auter be no profytable sacramentes nor haue no promyse of grace bycause the apostles wrote not of any of them as they dyd of the tother twayne I wolde wyt of Tyndale whyther he meane that of any of the tother fyue the apostels wrote nothyng at all or ellys that they wrote not of any grace promised vnto any of them or ellys that of none of them the apostles wrote any proper sygnyfycacyons of theyr outwarde sygnes as saynt Poule dyd of baptysme when he resembled yt vnto Crystes beryeng and resurreccyon and of the sacrament of the auter when he teacheth the Corynthyes that one lofe is made of many graynes of corne and the wyne of many grapes and that crysten men sholde in lykewyse beyng many in person be made one in loue and concorde and as it were made all one bodye in and wyth our sauyour Cryste hym selfe If he meane the fyrste way that is to wyt that yf any of the sayd fyue sacrameÌ„tes the apostle wrote nothyng at all then shall he shew hym selfe to shamelesse For the wordes be clere both of confyrmacyon presthed anelynge and bothe the other twayne If he meane of the secuÌ„de manner his â—ayeng shall be as shamelesse as in the fyrste For yt is euydent in
hym all theyr sacrameÌ„tes coude not for theyr fynall saluacyoÌ„ serue them But when they began lytell lytell to fall from that fayth and began to truste in the law the â—â—orkes of the law alone leuynge of thys poynt of fayth which was of the law sacramentes ceremonyes and all theyr bodyly workes the soule then went they wronge And that is â—he thynge whiche saynt Poule so sore reproueth in theyr tâ—ust coÌ„fydence to be saued by the workes of the law where as yf they had not lefte of the force strength of fayth both workes of the law and the ceremonyes to had stande them in â—tede of heuen And therfore thys nothyng toucheth the chyrch of Cryste when they put truste in the sacramentes for they do it not wythout the fayth that all the force and strength of them cometh of Crystes passyâ—n for thys they beleue and thys they teche And it is no dowte but that the iewes neuer knew the specyall sygnyfycacyoÌ„s of all theyr sacramentes sacryfyces ceremonyes other then grace remyssyon of synnes or peraduentuâ—â— that they were fygures tokeÌ„s of thynges that shold fall not yet perceyued by them as we know our sacramentes 〈…〉 sygnes of grace And it is vndowted that both they we â—hich in fayâ—h hope cheâ—yte do any such thyng as god 〈…〉 〈…〉 such fashyon as he byddeth vâ— all though we knowâ— not why he wyll be serued in suche wyse no more then Abraam knew why god bad hym to serue hym wyth the sacryfysynge of hys owne sonne yet is that doynge of that dede done in that wyse pleasaunt acceptable to god and profyte to maÌ„nes soule what so euer Tyndale tell vs and hys mayster Martine to frere Huskyn also and take theyr wyse wyues wyth them And therfore all thys tale of Tyndale agaynst the sacrament is not worth the leste fether of a wylde gose wynge But yet consyder one thynge by the way that ye mysse take hym not nor be not by a fayre word ledde out of your way He calleth the sacrament of the auter the sacrament of the bodye blode of Cryste in which wordes he calleth it well but yet meaneth he not so well therby as good crysten men do nor as hym selfe wolde seme to do For he meaneth not that there is the very body blode of Cryst in dede though he saye there is the sacrament therof For by that meaneth he nothynge ellys but onely a bare sygne and token and a memoryall therof For the great heretyke Thorpe in his examynacyon calleth the sacrament a ryght and by the same name that Tyndale now doth so that â— man wold at the fyrst heryng fynd no faute therin but mysse take hym for a good crysten man But afterward he declareth hym selfe well and clerely that he meaneth lyke a naughty heretyke as Tyndale doth also in sondry places of his boke For he saith the sacrameÌ„t sygne and token be but thre names of one thynge and that the sacrament of the auter is very brede styll And he mokketh at them that teache it to be the very body of our sauyour hym selfe and he is woode wyth them that do it any honour And so in this poynt concernynge the blessed sacrament of the auter Tyndale is yet a mych more heretyke then Luther is hym selfe in hys wrytynge all though in dede it appereth well that he ment as mych in the begynnâ—ng tyll he wythdrew hym selfe for enuye of other that hasted forward and set forth that heresye byfore hym And of trouth I am ryght credebly enformed by a very vertuouse man whom god hath of his goodnesse illumined called home agayn out of the darke Egypte of theyr blynd heresyes that at suche tyme as frere Barons and Tyndale fyrste mette talked to gether beyonde the see after that he fledde out of the fâ—eres where he was enioyned to 〈…〉 his penaunce after he hadde borne his fagot Tyâ—dale â—nd he were of sondrye sectes For frere Barons was of zwynglius secte agaynste the sacrament of the auter byleuynge that it is nothynge but bare brede But Tyndale was yet at that tyme not fully fallen so farre in that poynt but though he were badde inough bysyde was yet not coÌ„tent with frere Barons for the holdynge of that heresye But wythin a whyle after as he that is fallyng is sone put ouer the frere made the fole mad out ryght and brought hym blyndfelde downe into the depeste dongeon of that deuylysshe heresye wherin he sytteth now as faste bounden in the chayre of pestylence wyth the chayne of pertynacyte as any of hys vnhappy felowes And this I geue you knowledge of bycause I wolde not in any wyse that ye were deceyued wyth hym where he speketh well yet meaneth nought But now lette vs yet farther consyder well hys wordes Thus he sayth Tyndale All the ceremonyes and sacramentes that were from Adam to Cryste hadde sygnyfycacyons and all that are made mencyon of in the new testament More Uppon this he concludeth after that except baptysme the sacrament of the auter all the remanaunt be no trewe sacramentes for lakke of sygnifycacyons But ere he can so conclude he muste fyrste proue not onely that all the sacramentes and ceremonyes from Adam to Cryste hadde sygnyfycacyons but also that all those sygnyfycacyons were theÌ„ to the people knowen and vnderstanden For ellys though god dyd sette thynges to sygnyfye and to be done yet yf he commaunded them to do it and tolde them not the sygnyfycacyons but wolde leue them to be shewed and dysclosed at suche tyme afterwarde as it sholde lyke hym selfe it was no synne for them in the meane whyle to do the thynges that god bode them do but greate meryte to them though they vnderstode not what the thynges sygnyfyed that they dyd no more then my â—eruaunt that can no more but wryte is worthy rebuke and blame in the wrytynge of a latyn booke at my byddynge wherof he woteth not what any one worde meaneth Now that all the sygnyfycacyons of all the sacramentes and ceremonyes from Adam to Cryste were vnderstanden of the people that shall not Tyndale proue me though he shuld lyue as many yeres as were betwene the creacyoÌ„ of Adam the â—â—rth of Cryst And therfore as many yeres must he nedes haue alsoâ— ere euer hâ— make hys coÌ„clusion folow and hys argument good For yf god gaue them ceremonyes and sacrameÌ„tes wherof he gaue them not the sygnyfycacyons then so myghte he lykewyse gyue vs yf it so please hym to do And farther yf they by the doynge of those not vnderstanden ceremonyes and sacramentes in obedyence of his byddynge dyd not synne but deserued thanke all suche I saye as dyd them in dew fayth of saluacyon by Cryste that was to come then maye we also by the obseruynge of sacramentes and ceremonyes hauyng some sygnyfycacyons farther then we perceyue for one generall sygnyfycacyon of them all we knowe
Tyndale feleth neyther fayth lernynge reason wyt nor grace I alledged in my dialoge the wordes of saynte Pâ—ule to the Corynthies where he wryteth vnto them of the holy howsell As our lorde hath delyuered yt to me so haue I delyuered yt to you To this doth Tyndale answere thus Tyndale And wheÌ„ he alledgeth Paule to the Corinthies I say that Paule neuer knewe of this worde masse neither can any man gather therof any straunge holy gestures but the playne contrary and that there was no nother vse there then to breke the brede among them at soper as Crist dyd A and therfore he calleth it Cristes super and not masse More Here goth Tyndale aboute to iugle but his gallys be to greate I layed those wordes for none other cause but to proue that the apostle byfore his wrytynge taught them that great mystery by mouth and shewed them the manner hym selfe byfore his pystle writeÌ„ which he wold not haue wryten vnto them at all yf he myght then coÌ„ueniently haue ben present wyth them And now where I sayed that yt was well lykely that of saynt Poule by his present tradycyon was receyued holy gestures as the chyrche vseth in the consecracyon he answereth me that there is no suche thynge there spoken in the pystle whyche I sayed not there was but I saye that he fyndeth no worde in the pystâ—e that proueth that saynt Poule therin wrote euery thyng that he presently spake or dyd But yt appereth well that saynt Poule speketh of that thynge in that chapyter not to put in wrytynge all thynge that he hadde byfore tolde them by mouth but onely to put them in remembraunce that the thyng whyche they there receyued in the forme of brede though yt were called brede was yet in dede the very blessed bodye of Cryste And for the more clere profe therof he put them in remembrauÌ„ce that as he hadde byfore shewed them our sauyour hym self told hym so And this he remeÌ„bred them of by wrytyng to make them vse them self there after the more reuereÌ„tly For lakke wherof he wryteth to them that sykenesse and deth by the vengeaunce of god fell amonge them bycause they dyd not vse suche reuerence honour as they sholde do to the precyouse body and blessed blood of Cryste And in that chapiter saynt Poule speketh but of certayne vnreuerent poyntes in specyall and concludeth sayeng caetera autem quum venero disponam the remanaunt or all the other thynges I wyll my self order at my commyng Here may we se what so euer Tyndale saye that saynte Poule bysyde thys that he wrote of the sacrament gaue the people other tradycyons thereof by mouth as I sayde in my dialoge pâ—cteynynge to the reuerence and honour therof and Tyndale sayeth here the contrarye But now let the boke be iudge and by that chapiter iudge also the false fayth of Tyndale that sayth yt is synne to do any honour to yt And where Tyndale sayth that saynt Poule neuer know thys worde masse I byleue that well inough for I neuer herd that he spake any word of englyshe But that he knew not the thynge that englyshe men call the masse Tyndale hath not proued yet nor wyll not do this weke For he must proue yt better then by that saynte Poule spake of goddes supper For we call the howselynge of the people goddes borde and Crystes table and yet we know the masse to for all that besyde And the apostles them selfe I dowte not sayd masse many a tyme oft before any gospell wryteÌ„ And holy saynte Chrysostheme sayeth that the apostles in the masse prayed for all crysten soules where as I sayd that of the apostles tradicyon was lerned the maner of coÌ„secracyon yâ— answereth Tyndale in this wise Tyndale A great dowte as though we coulde not gather of the scrypture how to do yt More Surely men settynge no more therby then Tyndale and his felowes do may gather out of the gospell or the pystle eyther or out of what they wyll the maner of the consecracyon saynge of the masse that shall serue them self â— whyle they say yt they care not how byleue they care not what whyle they byleue yt to be none oblacyon hoste nor sacryfyce nor the body nor blood of Criste to be in the sacrameÌ„t nor that the masse doth any man good at all saue onely to the preste him selfe For what care they how they say masse whyche the more synfull they be and the more encombred coÌ„scyence that they haue the more encombred the more boldely as Luther byddeth in Babilonicaâ— presume they to goddes borde But vndouted who so haue a reuerent care therof and ryght fayth of the sacrament well perceyâ—eth that how to saye masse hathe ben taught the apostles by the spiryte of god and by the apostles forth And yf Luther frere Huskyn zwinglius Tyâ—dale and Lambert hadde neuer knowen it afore but shold haue taken the scripture in theyr handes and eche of them deuyse a maner of sayng masse by hym selfe I dare well saye for all Tyndales boste eche of them sholde haue deuysed a sondry fashyon and yet neuer one of the ryght For profe wherof Luther hym self castyng awaye the holy canon of the masse frameth after his fonde fashyon a maner of consecracyon and saynge of the masse in hys boke of Babilonica whyche folyshe inuencyon of hys Rosseus impugneth and playnely proueth that sauyng for the tradycyon of the chyrche Luther coulde neuer tell how or in what wyse to consecrate or saye masse and that the way that Luther deuyseth is vnsuffycyeÌ„t and vncertayne by Luthers awne rule And I doute not but that Tyndale hathe redde both Rosseus and Luther in those places and therfore I meruayle so myche the more that he dare be so bolde to saye yt when beynge hym selfe but Luthers scoler he seeth his mayster made a fole therin all redy where as I in my dialoge alledge that the preste in the consecracyon putteth water in to the wyne where as the scrypture speketh but of wyne therto answereth Tyndale thus Tyndale A great dowte also and a perilouse case yf yt were lefte out For eyther yt was done to slake the hete of the wyne or put to after a ceremonye to signifye that as the water is chaunged into wyne so are we chaunged thorow fayth as yt were into Cryste and are one wyth hym How be yt all is to theyr owne shame that ought sholde be done or vsed amonge vs crysten wherof no man wiste the meanynge For yf I vnderstode not the meanynge yt helpeth me not one corne .1 Corinth 14. and as experience teacheth But yf our sheperdes had bene as wyllynge to â—ede as to shere we hadde neded no such dispycyeÌ„ce ner they to haue burnt so many as they haue More where Tyndale sayth in skorne as he gladly scorneth alway when he speketh of the sacrament that yt were a great doute and a perylouse case to leue
that is in the whych is gyuen the by prophecye wyth the puttynge vppon of the handes of the preesthed and vnto hym also those wordes 2. Timoth. 1. I warne the that thou resuscytate and â—tyrre vp the grace of god that is in the by the imposycyon or puttynge vppon of my handes these placys were very playne for theyr mynde when they here redde that grace was by god infused wyth the receyuyng of the holy order of preesthode by the outwarde sacrament of puttynge the bysshoppys hande vppon hym It semeth also that the wordes of god spoken by the mouth of the prophete Ezechiel souneth to the same where he sayth I haue wasshed the wyth water Ezecl 16. I haue clensed thy blood By whych wordes yt semeth to be sygnyfyed that the outewarde wasshynge of the water of baptysme sholde be an effectuall instrument of the inwarde wasshynge of the soule And by the mouth of the same prophete Ezeâ—â— â— â—6 in prophecyeng of the sacrameÌ„t of baptysme our lord sayth also I shall shede out vppon you clene water and ye shall be clensed from all your fylthynes These wordes shewe that the water shall wasâ—â—e the fylthe And what fylthynes meaneth he but the fylthynes of the soule and that doth no water wasshe but the water of baptisme And where to wolde our lord by the mouth of his ê“phete call it clene water but for the differeÌ„ce that it hath in makynge clene the soule by influeÌ„ce of goddes gyfte ouer that other waters haue for ellys as for elementall clennesse of that water in yt selfe other water is as clene as yt Those holy doctours consydered also the yet more open wordes of yâ— ê“phete zacharie Zachar. 14 There shall go forth he sayth quykke lyuely waters oute of Hierusalem the one halfe of them to the oryentall see the other halfe to the very vttermost see These wordes veryly descrybe the holy water of yâ— sacrament of baptysme the water that welleth oute of holy chyrch whyche strecheth to two sees of synnes that is to wit both of synne orygynall and of all the actuall synne that the man hath done all were he neuer so olde ere he were baptysed And why calleth the prophete this water quykke and lyuely but for the dyfference betwene it and other waters that are but deede in token that the water of baptysme hathe by the secrete sanctyfycacyon of god a certayne strength of spirytual lyfe infouÌ„ded in to that corporall element wherby it is not onely a bare dede token and sygne of grace and clensynge of the soule but also a quycke lyuely workynge medycyne meane and instrument By these places of scrypture and dyuerse other many good holy men of old all be yt the no man otheâ—wyse thought nor thynketh but that the pryncypall worke and the hole workes in the clensyng of the soule and infundyng of grace is god hym selfe and that he doth yt for the merytes of Crystes passyon as he hath promysed to do and that vppon our parte is requyred in suche as haue vse reason at the tyme of baptysme repentaunce of the euyll lyfe passed with fayth and bylyef of the worde of god and hope of saluacion wyth loue and charyte towarde god and our neyghbour and a purpose of workynge of good workes yet dyuerse god holy doctours haue tought as I say by such placys of scrypture that god in the workynge of such clensynge of the soule and infusyon of grace vseth the sacramentes not as a bare sygne but as an instrument wyth whyche and by whyche it pleaseth hym to worke them And they that thynke otherwyse that is to wyt they that thynke that the sacramentes be but as yt were the lyuery gowne wherof I gaue you the ensample and hath no spâ—cyall power nor influeÌ„ce gyuen of god by whych it any thyng may worke in cleÌ„syng of the soule all they haue none other thynge for them selfe as far as I haue redde and could perceyue but argumentes grounded vppon philosophye and metaphisycall reasons by the coÌ„straynte wherof I wyll not say they be dreuen and compelled but say that as yt semeth me they dryue and compell theÌ„ selfe to fynde gloses to these scriptures vnto the wordes of other good holy doctours to For as for my parte I wold not let to deny an hole hepe of those reasons in maters of the sacramentes whych hang all vppon goddes will and pleasure and his omnipoteÌ„t power For all be yt that we se no lykelyhed how that bodely water can worke vpon the spyrytuall substauÌ„ce of the soule yet god can make that fyre which is a bodely substauÌ„ce as well as is the water to worke not vppoÌ„ soulys onely discharged of theyr bodyes in purgatory but also vppon the euyll angelles the deuyls whose substauÌ„ce is as spirituall as is the soule I can not greatly se why we shold greatly fere to graunte agre that by goddes ordynauâ—ce the water may be goddes instrument in purgynge and clensynge of the soule whyche argument for ought that I perceyue among theÌ„ is to myne vnderstandyng so symply soyled that till I here eyther better or perceyue them better I lyke as yet that argument better then I lyke all they re solucyons that they make thereto For some of them be fayne for theyr solucyon to graunt almoste that theyr payne in the fyre were but a detaynynge therin by some streÌ„ger power then them selfe and then were the payne but as a prysonement and restraynt of lybertye if the fyre burne them not And then why more in fyre then in water yf they be for the fyre neuer the warmer And vn the tother syde yf that by the kepynge of them in the fyre the fyre do worke vppon theÌ„ and burne them as I thynke the trouth is then so maye by goddes ordynaunce the water helpe to wasshe and clense the soule And surely syth experyence teacheth vs that the soule whych is of yt selfe a spyrytuall substaunce god hath of his hygh wysedome and power foundeÌ„ the meane so to put it in a bodye and so to knyt yt therto that not onely by fyre or frosen water putte aboute yt but also wythoute any outwarde thynge put vnto yt by the onely boylynge of the distempered humours wythin yt selfe the soule is in such gryef payâ—e and torment that it wold be as fayne out of the body as the bodye wold be rydde of it syth we fynde this thus I dowte nothynge at all but that god can by mo meanes then men can thynke or imagyne so bynde the spyrytuall soule to the fyre that he shall fele the feruour of the fyre as he nowe feleth the hete of his ague here and yet shall not the fyre and he be made one person as the soule and the body be now which thynge who so wolde aske me howe maye that be myght as well aske me how myght the worlde be made when there was nothyng to make yt of and a thousand madde questyons
scripture neyther he myght by his passioÌ„ haue wrought our redeÌ„pcion all though he had wedded goten chyldreÌ„ to And in good fayth I wene we shall se those folke fall so frantyque ones that they shall not let at laste to say he dyd so to and bydde vs go proue the contrarye by scrypture or ellys they be at theyr angelycall lybertye to byleue whyche waye they lyste But now come we to Tyndales other example that he putteth of purgatorye Tyndale What am I the better for the bylyefe of purgatorye More In good fayth not the better of an halfpeny whyle ye by leue yt no better then ye do But surely if ye byleued yt well ye myghte be bothe the better for purgatorye and the farther from hell Tyndale To fere men wyth thou wylte saye More He maketh men answere as yt pleaseth hym selfe But we wyll not saye so for it were a folyshe sayeng to say Tyndale is the better for the bylyefe of purgatorye to fere men wyth what fole wolde saye so but Tyndale For Tyndals bylyef can not fere folke no more then other mennys bylyef fereth Tyndale nor Tyndale is not the better though other men be aferde And therfore that questyon as he folyshely frameth yt so he folyshely answereth yt But I saye that purgatory is ordeyned for the punyshement of suche synnys as were eyther venyall in the bygynnynge or from mortall turned to venyall by the forgyuenesse of the mortalyte And I saye that the bylyefe thâ—rof profyteth two maner of wyse One wyse in that yt maketh a man to be preserued thens or to be the lesse whyle there by that yt maketh hym do penaunce and good workes here of whiche two thynges Tyndale abhorreth to here A nother waye the bylyefe therof profyteth in that as for so farre forth yt kepeth the byleuer from hell into the fyre wherof for the contrary bylyefe and heresye holden agaynst yt he sholde ellys fall hedâ—ynge downe byleued he neuer so well and lyued he neuer â—o well also bysyde And therfore of the bylyefe of purgatory there commeth â—hese profyâ—es 〈◊〉 other folke though Tyndale be neueâ—â—he better for the bylyefe therof whyche byleueth yt not Tyndale Cryste and his apostles thoughte hell inough And yet besydes that the flesshely ymagynacyons maye not stande with goddes worde what greate fere can there be of that terryble fyre whyche thou mayste quenche almoste for thre halfpens More Nay surely that fyre is not so lyghtely quenched that folke sholde vppon the boldenesse of perdons stande out of the fere of purgatory For lykewyse as though the sacrameÌ„t of penaunce be able to put away theternalyte of the payne yet hath the party for all that cause to fere bothe purgatory and hell to leste some defaute vppon hys owne parte letted god in the sacrament to worke such grace in hym as sholde serue therfore so though the perdon be able to dyscharge a man of purgatory yet may there be suche defaute in the party to whom the perdon is graunted that though he gyue for thre halfpence thre hundred pounde yet shall he receyue no perdon at all And therfore can he not be for thre halfepence out of fere of purgatory but euer hath cause to fere it For no man excepte reuelacyon can be sure whyther he be partener of the perdon or not though he maye haue and ought to haue bothe in that and euery good thynge good hope And yf the fere of purgatory were so clere gone bycause it myghte be quenched wyth the coste of thre halfepence then were the fere of hell gone 〈◊〉 by Tyndales techynge syth bare fayth and sleyght repentyng putteth out that fyre clene wythout the cost of a peny And where he sayâ—â—h that Cryste and hys apostles thought hell inough I aske hym how he preueth that For we se well by experyence that hell and purgatory to be scant inough bytwene them bothe to refrayne folke from synne we se also that bothe Cryste and hys apostles haue shewed vs that there is purgatory And that haue they shewed vs not onely by mouth whyche were suffycyent to faythfull folke but by the scrypture to And yet bothe twayne be not inough to Tyndale For hys felowes and he wyll not vnderstande those places of scrypture but after theyr owne fasshyon And therfore now where as he calleth as vnprofytable â—â— the soâ—le as smoke to sore eyes all thynges that be not eyther wryten in scrypture or deduced theruppon put the ensamples of the assumpcyon of our ladye and purgatory he muste adde vnto them as many thynges mo as hym selfe putteth in the same case And so therby ye se that he sayth now that a chylde to be confermed or to be crystened eyther yf yt be crystened in latyne or a man to shryue hym selfe of his synnys or to do penauÌ„ce or to do any good workes toward heuen warde or to be aneled or to pray to sayntes or to byleue in the holy sacrament of the aulter the blessed body and blood of Cryste or to do any honoure vnto yt all these thynges be by Tyndale as profytable for the soule as smoke is for sore eyes But I praye god that the sore eyes of hys sycke soule maye ones loke vppe better leste he fynally fall in to the foule smoke of hell where he shall neuer se after Tyndale And that the apostles shold teache aught by mouth that they wold not write I pray you for what purpose More Now haue ye herd all redy by what hygh reasons Tyndale hath prouyd you the thynge that he affermeth that ys to wyt that the apostles wrote and lefte in wrytynge euery thynge that is of necessyte for the soule eyther to be done or to be byleued But syth he seeth hym selfe that in his reasons for hys owne parte there is so lyâ—â—e pyth that he can neuer proue nor no man ellys the thynges that Tyndale muste proue or ellys proue hym self a fole for fallynge from the fayth of Crystes chyrce that is to say yâ— the apostles left all such necessarye poyntes of the fayth in wrytynge he leueth of now his parte hym selfe asketh vs why they left aught vnwriten as though if I that neuer was of counsayle with them can not tell vnto Tyndale playnely wherfore and why the apostles left aught vnwryteÌ„ he myght theruppon conclude that they wrote all to gether Is not this a wyse and a worshyppefull reason Thys maner is mych lyke as Tyndale wolde afferme that all the lawes of England be wryten and what so euer were vnwryten were no law And when he hadde longe wrestled therwyth and coulde not proue it wolde then aske me hath the realme of Englande any lawes that he not wrytenâ— to what purpose I praye you sholde they be lefte vnwryten And then yf I coulde not gyue hym an answere therto such as coude content hym he myghte therfore wyth good reason take hys parte for proued and well and wourshypfully conclude that all that
all the thre byfore remembred that the apostles wryte of grace geuen wyth the puttynge vppon of the handes And therein when Tyndale seketh an euasyon in his boke of obedyeÌ„ce sayenge that the puttyng of the handes was but a maner of menne in that coâ—tre as yt was to stretche oute the arme in prechynge or to laye an hande vppon a boyes hed call hym good sonne this euasyon is noâ—e euasyoÌ„ For in the syxte chapyter of saynt Poule vnto the Hebrewes saynte Poule wolde not haue made so seryouse ernest remembrauÌ„ce of the puttynge vppon of the handes whyche he reherseth as ernestly as baptysme yf yt were but such custumable maner that men maye do and lyue vndone as they lyste Nor yf yt were but suche a thynge he wolde not so expressely saye to Tymothe that he had grace geuen vâ—to hym by yâ— puâ—â—yng of his handes vppon hym These places of scryptuâ—â— and many mo to be for this mater so playne agaynste Tâ—ndale and so â—uydent that when he wrestleth with them and wold fayne scape away wyth some gay glose of his owne diuyse he fareth lyke a butter flye falleÌ„ on a lyme twygge whych yâ— more yt stryueth and flotereth euer the faster yt hangeth Now yf he meane in the thyrd fasshyon that is to wytte that the apostles of those fyue sacramentes do not besyde the comen sygnyfycacyon of grace wryte any specyall and proper sygnyfycacyons of the outwarde tokens to whyche sygnyfycacyons the same outwarde tokens hadde suche resemblans and lykenesse that they were therfore appropred vnto them as water in baptysme hath by the wessynge of bodye a resemblauns vnto the clensynge of the soule yf Tyndale meane in this manner as yt semeth that he dothe for when Luther and he and all the sorte of them hadde longe labored agaynste the blessed sacramentes and hadde fyrste assayed to saye that fyue of them were not in scrypture spoken of at all and whan that wolde not be bydden by then that there was at the leste wyse no grace promysed wyth them when they se them selfe shamfully conuycted and reproued in that poynte to then fell they fynally to the thyrde poynt and wolde not wythstandynge that the scrypture make mencyon of them of grace also graunted wyth them yet wold the wise meÌ„ make vs so madde as to take theÌ„ all for nought but yf we fynde in scrypture what other specyall sygnyfycacyon euery outwarde token hath and preache that sygnyfycacyons to the people as the specyall thynge and the hole effecte of the sacrameÌ„t lettyng the grace go by whych these men wolde were clene forgoten in no wyse byleued But where as in all theyr wryâ—ynges they rayle vppon allegoryes crye out vppon such holy doctours as preache them yet the holy sacramentes selfe they wolde shold serue for allegoryes onely and for nothynge ellys Now then I saye syth Tyndale meaneth thys wyse and therfore sayth in his wordes afore remembred that otherwyse preached they do no good but hurte all to gether for yt maketh he sayeth the audyence to put confydence therin that the dede yt selfe iustyfyeth a man whyche is the denyenge of Cristes blood syth Tyndale I saye sayeth thus I wolde wyt of Tyndale whether the sacramentes and the ceremonyâ—s of the olde law were by god prouyded to be well and with theyr profyte delyuered taught by Mâ—yses vnto the Iewes I thynke â—â—â—t Tyndale wyll not be so madde to say that god dyd by Moyses teche them to serue hym wyth those sacrameÌ„tes sacryfyces ceremonyes dyspleasauÌ„t to hym selfe thankles toward them selfe also to theyr hurte wherfore yf he haue eyther wytte or grace he muste nedys grauÌ„te agre that they were by Moises taught vnto the iewes very well and agreable to goddys pleasure theyr welthe But then say I that those specyall and proper sygnyfycacyons of euery sacrament sacryfyce and ceremonye were not taught them nor they vnderstode them not wherfore it foloweth that Tyndale sayeth false in that he sayth that the knowledge of them was so necessary for the soule helthe that wythout that knowledge the vse of them muste nedes be noyfull and not lawfull vnto them For but yf Tyndale teche false in thys god had taught hys people in the begynnynge to serue hym wyth damnable ceremonyes hym selfe Now yf Tyndale wyll at thys clappe turne hys cheke a syde and say that bycause that ellys all theyr seruyce to god done wyth those sacramentes and ceremonyes hadde bene dampnable therfore it appâ—reth well that all the sygnyfycacioÌ„s of them were taught them and so the minor of myne argueÌ„mt false yet in turnynge the to cheke for me he tourneth the tother very fayre to me so that he wyll haue a clap on the tone cheke or the tother make what skyfte he can For then say I thys vnto hym that yf the knowledge of all these sygnyfycacions was so necessary to them that with out that knowlege the doynge of those thynges whyche without synne they myghte not leue vndone were synne as ofte as they dyd them and that therfore lest we sholde be so wretched to wene god had on â—ueâ—y syde so bywrapped hys people in synne hym selfe by hys owne specyall prouysyon that they coude not by no meane escape we muste nedys perceyue that god caused theÌ„ to be by Moyses taught all those sygnyfycacyons Then say I that syth they were not wryteÌ„ vnto them in the scrypture they were yf Tyndale tolde vs trew taughte them but onely by mouth and so fro mouth to mouth taught and contynued amonge them tyll men by theyr foly and slougth fell to forgeâ—â— them or lytell to force of them and then to not byleue them as these heretyques fare by the ryght fayth at thyâ— dâ—ye And then saye I that therupâ—onâ— it very well foloweth ferther that Tyndale sayeng that Mâ—yses receyuâ—â— all â—â—cessary thynges in wrytynge sayed very false 〈…〉 fole for the knowlege and vnderstandynge of those sygnyfycacyons of all theyr sacryfyces and ceremonyes he confesseth to be necessary vppon parell of theyr soulys and yet he confesseth that they were not wryten in the scrypture And yf Tyndale wene to wry asyde and skape by that he sayth that those sacramentes ceremonyes serued them for bookes that they â—ed all the sygnyfycacyons in them as in bookes I aske hym whyther the ceremonyes were tokens so lyke the sygnyfycacyons that they were able to teche the sygnyfycacyons and kepe them by the beholdyng of the ceremonyes or not If they were they had not ben forgotten If they were not and yet the sygnyfycacyons so necessary then yet agayne was not euery thynge necessary delyuered Moyses in wrytynge But lettyng Tyndale with his foly passe the trouth is that the iewes had necessary thynges taught them besyde the wrytynge had an expectacyon of Cryst and of redempcyon by hym before the law wryten in that tyme and after and the iewes loke for it yet they knowe that wythout
the fewer yf the doctryne were in them to But now let vs se whyther of vs two playe the false iugeler I that tell you that euery necessary poynt of bylefe is not wryten in saynt IohnÌ„s gospell or Tyndale that wolde make you wene that what so euer ye fynde not wryteÌ„ there ye were not bounden to take it for any necessary poynt of fayth For ellys yf Tyndale wolde grauÌ„te that saynt IohnÌ„ had not wryten in dede euery necessary poynt of fayth then is it as good for Tyndale that saynt IohnÌ„ say so as that in dede it be so Let vs therfore leue disputyng vppon the word and loke vppon the dede and se whyther it be so or not If a man seke amonge the other euangelystes he shall fynd mo necessary thynges then one lefte out in saynt IohnÌ„ and in eche of them somwhat that some other hath And yf a man loke ferther in the boke of fayth wryten in the hartes of Cristes hole catholyke chyrche he shall fynde some thynges that none of them all hath wryten and yet necessary poyntes of fayth as I haue shewed you samples and shall But now bycause of Tyndale let vs take some one And what thyng rather then the last souper of Cryste hys mauÌ„dye with hys apostles in whych he instytuted the blessed sacrament of the auter hys owne blessed body and blode Is this no necessary poynt of fayth Tyndale can not deny it for a necessary poynt of fayth though it were but of hys owne false fayth agreynge wyth Luther Huskyn or zuinglius And he can not saye that saynte IohnÌ„ speketh any thynge therof specyally not of the instytucyon Nor he can not saye that saynt IohnÌ„ speketh any thyng of the sacrament at all syth that hys secte expressely denyeth that saynt IohnÌ„ ment the sacrament in hys wordes where he speketh expressely thereof in the .vi. chapyter of hys gospell And thus ye se howe wysely Tyndale sykketh wyth me in the sentence of saynte IohnÌ„s wordes when the thynge that I entende thereby is proued by his dede And yet bycause Tyndale wyll nothynge alowe but the word if he pull frome that word of saynt IohnÌ„ I shall proue hym the same purpose by the worde of saynte IohnÌ„s mayster our sauyour Cryste hym selfe and saynte IohnÌ„ shall bere me recorde that yt was Cryste that sayed yt For oure sauyour lo as wytnesseth saynte IohnÌ„ in the .xvi. chapiter Iohan. 16 sayed vnto his dyscyples hym selfe I haue yet many thynges to saye to you but ye can not bere them now but when that the spyryte of trewth ys come he shall teache you all trewth Lo here ye here our sauyour saye hym selfe that he lefte and wolde leue some thynges and that great thynges and therfore of lykelyhed necessarye that they sholde not here tyll after his passyon that the holy goost sholde come and teache them and well ye wote that saynte IohnÌ„ endeth his boke byfore And therfore as for thys authoryte of saynte IohnÌ„ that I layed in my dialoge Tyndales answere wherin he calleth me a iugler hath not yet iugled awaye the force but hath by his false caste of iuglynge fetely conuayed hym self out of the fryenge panne fayre into the fyre where as I shew in my dyaloge that yt is not wryten in scrypture that our ladye was a perpetuall virgyne and yet yt is a necessarye poynt to be byleued This is his answere thereto Tyndale And how bryngeth he in the perpetuall virgynite of our lady whych though yt be neuer so trew is yet none artycle of our fayth to be saued by but we byleue yt wyth a storye fayth bycause we se no cause resonable to thynke the contrarye More By this answere yt appereth well that god be thanked he fyndeth not yet the peoples deuocyon so farre falleÌ„ from our lady that he dare be bolde to saye all that he thynketh For ellys he wolde saye more then he doth And lyke as he forbedeth folke to pray to her and specially mysselyketh her deuowt antem of Salue regina so wolde he not fayle yf he saw the people frame all after hys fantasye to blaspheme her in this mater of a nother fashion as other of his felowes haue done byfore his dayes But now for the meane whyle he is contente that men may thynke them selfe at lybertye to byleue it or not byleue yt as they lyste as a thynge of no necessyte to be byleued vppoÌ„ saluacyon of our soules And full well he woteth that though he say now that he can se no reason why to thynke the contrary yet if he could bryng vs ones in the mynde that there is no parell therin he myght afterward well inough tell vs when he wolde the contrarye and saye that wyth better lokynge theron he hath now founden that Eluidius other elder heretyques of the same sewte sayde therin very well and that reason and scrypture is wyth them and that saynt Austayne and saynte Hierome all the remanauÌ„t say wrong bycause theyr parte is not wryten in scrypture This wyll not Tyndale herafter let to say when he lyst yf he maye make vs wene in the meane whyle that we maye chuse whyther we wyll byleue thys poynt or not But I saye that in that poynte Tyndale sayeth wronge For in any suche thynge as we be bounden to byleue yf I byleue yt in dede yet byleue therwyth that I maye lawfully chuse whether I wyll byleue yt or not I saye that in so byleuynge I byleue nought nor my bylyefe shall not serue me Then saye I farther that this artycle is suche that we be boundeÌ„ to byleue yt For he that byleueth yt not is an hâ—retyque as yt playnely appereth hoth by saynt Austayn in his boke to quod vult deus and by saynte Hierome in hys boke agaynste Heluidius and by the other holy sayntes and martyrs who as saynt Hierome saynt Austayne reherse dyd wryte agaynste heretykes byfore called them Antidichomarians that is to say Maries aduersaryes Then say I fynally that for as mych as it well playne appereth that all those holy coÌ„nynge men and blessed sayntes therwyth all the whole catholyke chyrch bysyde haue euer hytherto taken the perpetuall virginyte of our blessed lady for so sure a poynte of crysten fayth and bylyefe that they haue euer condemned the contrary for an heresye and then syth yâ— artycle is not in holy scrypture wryten but that the wordes of scrypture not well vnderstanden seme to say the contrary I may do agaynst Tindale his felowes well and fully coÌ„clude that there is some thynge necessary to be byleued and yet is not writen in scripture And so to my secund argument ye fynde his answere fonde For as for his story fayth wyth onely whych he sayth we byleue this poynt I shall touche yt I trust in â—uch wyse his felynge fayth ther wyth when I come thereto that euery man shall fele wyth hys fyngers endes that
the water oute I am very sure that yf there hadde be not dowte nor parell to leue yt out there was neuer good crysten man that any reuereÌ„ce hadde to Cryste but he wold haue put great dowte haue thought yt great parell to put any water in For what beste wolde be so bolde when he fyndeth not that Cryste in the coÌ„secracyon and chaunge of the wyne into hys owne blood vsed any other thynge then wyneâ— and spake also hym selfe of the onely lycoure of the grape who durste I say haue put therto any thynge ellys and to haue consecrated his blood of wyne and water But one thynge is there that maketh Tindale in this poynt so bolde that is to wyt his owne spyrytuall rule that he so myche bosteth of in serchyng out the cause and then rulynge all thynge by some cause of his owne makynge As here he gesseth here two causes why the water is putte in And though he wote nere whyther of the twayn is the trewth yet he maketh hym selfe sure that yt must nedys be the tone And then rekeneth he the causes both twayne so substancyall that yt maketh in his mynde no mater why ther the thyng be done or vndone Luther was hym selfe also so meshed in thys mater when the kynges hyghnesse layed agaynste hym the puttynge of the water into the wyne that in hys frantyke answere he fared as Tyndale doth here and not wyttynge what to saye therto began to gesse at the cause wherfore it was put in wherin he sought so farre that at last he founde that whyther it were in or out it made no mater bycause he sayd it was a thynge impertynent to the mater so that by hym a man myght put into the wyne what he wolde besyde yet then founde he forther that it is euyll done to put it in For he sayed it had an euyll sygnyfycacyon and sygnyfyed that the syncerite of scrypture was watered with mennes tradycyoÌ„s Lo so was he be wrapped therin that he coude not in thys worlde wyt what to say therto but farynge lyke a frantyque fole and answerynge thys and that he wyste nere what nor at what poynt to holde hym fynally fell to blasphemy And now his good scolar Tyndale wyll be nothynge a knowen of hys maysters foly but diuyneth and deuyseth two new causes of hys owne brayne and affyrmeth that some one of those twayne muste nedys be the very cause as though god hym selfe coude fynde no ferther cause then Tyndale hath serched out and then he theruppon concludeth that they water may be as well lefte out as put in But what so euer Tyndale saye there was neuer good man yet thys .xv. C. yere that durste leue it out nor other wyse vse it theÌ„ god hath taught his apostles with his owne worde vnwryten otherwyse then in crysten hartes Holy sayntes also haue thought vppon other causes For some haue thought that god ordayned the water to be mengled wyth the wyne as the water welled out wyth the blood out of hys blessed harte vppon the crosse And holy saynt Cypriane that connynge doctour and blessed martyr theruppon sayth that our sauyour hym selfe at the tyme of the instytucyon of that blessed sacrament dyd put water in to wyne though there was no mencyon made therof in the wrytyng no more then there was of dyuers other thynges that our sauyour dyd as saynt IohnÌ„ sayth that he wolde haue to be done in hys chyrche euer after Of whyche thynges thys infusyon of water is one taught vndoughtedly by god to hys apostles and by them forth and so thys .xv. hundred yeres contynued in Crystes chyrche wythout any mencyon therof made in scrypture yet men of necessyte bouÌ„deÌ„ to obserue it nor no man euer thought or durst thynke the contraryâ— tyll now Luther and Tyndale and suche other of theyr sorteâ— whyche set so lytell by that blessed sacrament that they wolde haue all honour and reuereÌ„ce taken from it and rekened for a bare sygne set but onely to sygnyfye wythout any geuynge of grace and therfore they wolde haue yt homely handeled how so euer men lyste Deuyse ones some sygnyfycacyon then wold those heretykes by theyr wyllys that in stede of wyne and water men wolde consecrate new ale in cornes Now where he sayth that it is the shame of the clergy if aught be vsed amonge crysten men wherof no man wyste the meanynge why more then for Moyses to delyuer and leue to the people many ceremonyes commaunded by god wherof the people what so euer Tyndale saye neuer vnderstode the meanynge wold the wyse man that yf god bydde a man do a thynge he shall saye hym nay but yf he tell hym why Then fynysheth he this mater wyth a proper taunt that yf our shepeherdes were as willynge to fede as to shere we hadde neded no suche dyspycyons nor they to haue burned so many as they haue Lo the great faute that Tyndale fyndeth in that the prelates do not as he doth deuyse causes at auenture and warraunt them for trewe nor leue out the water boldely vppon hys goostly consayle now agaynste the fayth of all faythfull folke this .xv. hondred yere byfore And where he layeth that the slaknesse of fedyng hath caused so many to be burned I wyll not saye naye but that yt myght haue beÌ„ better with some if there had ben vsed more dilygence in preachyng But as fâ—r many such as haue ben burned all the pchynge in the world wold not haue holpen theyr obstynacy But sure yf the prelates had taken as good hede in tyme as they sholde haue done there sholde peraduenture at length fewer haue ben burned therby But there shold haue ben mo burned by a great many then there haue ben wythin this seuen yere laste passed The lakke whereof I fere me will make mo burned within this seuen yere next commynge then ellys sholde haue neded to haue ben burned in seuen score where I alledged the chaunge of the sabbaoth daye into the sonday wythout scrypture thereto he answereth thus Tyndale As for the sabbaoth a great mater We be lordes ouer the sabbaoth day and may yet chaunge yt into the monday or any other day as we se nede or may make euery tenth day holyday onely yf we se a cause why we may make two euery weke yf yt were expedient and one not inough to teacke the people Neyther was there any cause to chaunge yt from the satterdaye then to put dyfference betwene vs and the Iewes and leste we shuld be come seruauÌ„tes vnto the daye after theyr superstycyon Neyther neded we any holy day at all yf the people myght be taught wythout yt More Tyndale maketh the chaunge of the sabbat daye a very sleyght mater And bycause that our sauyour sayde of hym selfe that the sonne of man that is to wytte he hym selfe was lorde of the sabbat daye therefore as though euery man were god almyghty his felow Tyndale sayth that we be lordes
the tyme of those olde ceremonyes sacrameÌ„tes iudycyalles all was gone sauynge for as farreforth as the chyrch of Cryst by the spiryte of god hath taken vp any aâ—ayne But let Tyndale brynge of saynt Poule all the places that he possyble can and he shall neuer fynde one whyle he lyueth amonge them all in whyche saynte Poule reproueth any sacrameÌ„t or ceremony taken vppe and accompted for good thorow Crystes whole catholyque chyrche nor yet the iewes for vsynge the ceremonyes geuen by god to Moyses and by Moyses to them for the tyme whyle they serued though they knew not the sygnyfycacyons excepte yt were for lakke of some other vertue whych they lefte of rought not for and thereby loste the frute of they re ceremonyes at all One other thynge he sayth whych he taketh for an hygh poynt to proue that saynt Poule taught no ceremonyes or sacramentes but suche as hâ— taught also theyr sygnyfycacyons And that he proueth thus Tyndale Paule commaundeth that no man ones speke in the chyrche that is the congregacyon but in a tonge that all men vnderstnade excepte that there be an interpreter by More And what than At suche tyme as the lawe was gyuen fyrste to the chyldern of Israel yt was in dede wryten in a tonge that the people vnderstode But yet the ceremonyes though they were wryten in the same tonge yet were there many of them that the people neuer vnderstode what they ment nor peraduenture Moyses neyther and yet were they bounden of obedyence to obserue them and theyr obedyeÌ„ce was frutefull to but yf that some other faute made yt lese the frute And therfore where Tyndale telleth a longe tale that saynt Paule commaundeth them to labour for knowelege vnder â—tadynge felynge and beware of hypocrosye ceremonyes and all maner of dysguysynge and many such wordes mo some of saynt Poule some of his owne planted in among them hys tale semeth somwhat solemne but yt is nothyng substauncyall For the sacramentes aâ—d ceremonys geuen by god vnto 〈◊〉 chyrch be neyther hipocrisye nor iudaycall ceremonyes nor dysguysynges neyther whyche worde Tyndale setteh in hym selfe in scorne as yt semeth of the blessed sacrament of the auter Nor saynt Poule though he wold haue them labour for knowlege meaneth not yet they shall leue the sacramentes vnserued which god hath taught tyll he teche them the knowlege why he taught them and what specyall sygnyfycacyon euery sacrament ceremony had For where as Tyndale rymeth yt out and sayth that he both denyeth and also defyeth that the apostles taught any ceremonye wherof the reason coulde not be knowen for all hys denyeng and also defyenge a better man then the apostles dyd our sauyour Cryste hym selfe when he sent is dyâ—cyples forth to baptyse and to preache he taught them how they sholde go and what they sholde do but the reason and cause of euery ceremony that fynde we not yâ— euer he taught them but at some of them he suffred both them then and vs euer synnes to gesse and to dyuyne For that he wolde haue them neyther bere walet nor sachell nor shone vppon theyr â—â—te nor stykke in theyr hand nor salute any man by the way nor why he chose water and baptisme in stede of circuÌ„cisyon nor why he wold they shold lay theyr handes vppon some syke folke whom they shold hele nor why they shold anoynt syke folke wyth oyle hele them by that meane the causes I say and the proper sygnyfycacyons of all these ceremonyes and many other we fynd not that our sauyour when he sent them shewed them and yet he bode them do yt and they were bounde to obaye and meryted and deserued by theyr obedyeÌ„ce Myche more theÌ„ he sholde haue done who so wolde haue sayde tell me fyrst good lorde why maye I not putte on my shone why maye I not take a stykke in myne hande what arte thou the better thought I go bare fote what shall yt hurte the mater though I bere a stykke why were yt not as good to smere a syke man wyth butter as anoynt hym wyth oyle tell me the causes of all those thynges and yâ— proper sygnifycacyon ere I go For ellys to say that I wyll be sent out with such dumme ceremonyes wherof I know not the causes that I denye and also defye He that thus sholde haue sayd lyke Tyndale shold haue goten lytle thanke And as I haue byfore somwhat sayâ—e almyghtye god taught many ceremonyes to Moyses and he forth to â—he people and neyther can Tyndale nor any man elips proue me by scrypture that the people vuderstode all theyr sygnyfycacyoÌ„s no nor Moyses neyther And where is then Tyndales worshyppefull ryme that I denye and also defye I lette passe all the ceremonyes taught about the arche the temple the sacryfyces and many other thynges wyll wyt but howe Tyndale can proue me that the chyldern of Israell or as I saye Moyses eyther vnderstode all the ceremouyes commaunded by god about theyr departyng out of Egypte why a lambe why a kydde why of one yere why wythout spotte why taken the .x. daye why offred the xiiii why the vengauns of god put fro the house at the token of the blood put vppon the postes why eaten by nyght why none lefte tyll the morow but rather the remanaunt burnte why vnleuened brede why wylde letuse I knowe well god wyste why he commaunded all those ceremonyes but I saye Tyndale can not proue that the people vnderstode them all nor peradueÌ„tnre that Moyses neyther If Tyndale yet say that the people vnderstode all those ceremonyes I wyll fyrste bydde hym proue me that poynt by scrypture And then for some lykelyhed towarde a profe of the contrary I wyll laye forth for authorite agaynst wyllyam Tyndale the wordes of one maÌ„ whom Tyndale wold were moste byleued of all men that is to wytte the wordes of wyllyam Tyndale hym selfe For hym selfe sayth in hys boke agaynste me Tyndale Cryste axed the apostles Matth. xv whom they toke hym for And Peter answered for them all sayngeâ— I say that thou art Cryste the sonne of the lyuynge god that art come into this worlde That is we byleue that thou art he that was ê“mysed vnto Abraham shuld come and blesse vs and delyuer vs. How be yt Peter yet wyste not by what meanes But now yt is opened thorow out all the worlde that thorow the offerynge of hys body and bloude More Now syth as Tyndale sayth hym selfe saynt Peter at the tyme dyd not knowe by what meane Cryste sholde redeme vs and yt is very lykely that saynte Peter al be yt he was not yet fully lerned dyd yet at the tyme goynge to scole wyth Cryste vnderstande as myche at the leste wyse as the comeÌ„ peple dyd euen in Moyses days I thynke therfore the Tyndale sholde hym selfe agre contrary to that hym selfe hathe sayde byfore that the people vnderstode not all the ceremonyes And yet I thynke he wyll not
whyche she hadde ben accustomed no daye myssynge to do seruyce from whyche she well knewe that holy sacryfyce to be dyspensed by whyche the oblygacyon that made agaynst vs was cancelled and by whyche was led as a captyue in triumphe that ennemy of ours that kepeth a rekenynge of our synnes and sekynge what he myght obiecte coulde in hym nothynge fynde in whom we haue had the vyctoryâ— who can shed hym agayne an innocent blood for hys who can restore hym agayne the raunson that he redeined vs wyth To the sacrament of whych raunson of ours thyne hand mayde hath bouÌ„de her soule with the bonde of fayth Let no man pull her froÌ„ thy proteccyoÌ„ Let neyther the lyon nor the dragon neyther byforce nor by false sleyght steppe in betwene her and the. She shall not answere that she oweth the naught lest she be therin conuynced and cast and that therby her suttle accuser get her But she shall answere that her dettes be forgyueÌ„ her whom no man is able to paye that he payed for vs when he owed naught for hym selfe In peace mote she be therfore and her husbonde to a fore whom and after whom she neuer maryed non whom she lyke a seruaunt obeyd bryngynge frute to the thorow her pacyent sufferaunce that she myght therby wynne hym to the to Inspyre good lorde my god inspyre thy seruauntes my bretherne thy chyldren my lordes whom both wyth worde and herte and wrytynge I serue that as many as rede thys may remember at thyn aulter thy seruaunt Monica with Patricius somtyme her husbande by whose flesh thou haste brought me into thys lyfe I can not tell howe Make them remember wyth a deuoute assercion them that were in thys transytory lyfe my father and mother vnder the my father and my mother the catholyke chyrche where my syster and brother and in the eternall Hierusalem shall be my neyghbours and cytesens whyche Hierusalem thy people from theyr goynge forth tyll theyr commyng home in all theyr pylgrymag longeth for and sygheth Good lord graunte thys that the thynge whych was the laste that euer she desyred of me she may the more plentuously obteyneâ— by the prayours of many mo The olde holy doctour saynte Chrysostome in his home lye wherin he sheweth that almes dede masses and diriges greatly profyte them that are dede among many other thynges wryteth in thys wyse It was not for naughte ordeyned by thapostles that in the dredfull mysteryes of the masse sholde commemoracyon be made for them that be dede For thapostles knewe that thereby cometh to the soules great auauntage and profyte For when all the people standeth to gether holdynge vppe theyr handes and the preste fulfyllâ—th hys obseruaunce and that dredfull sacrifyce set forth how can yt be but that then praynge for the soules â—e shall obteyne Now se you very playne good cristen readers that of the eldeste and the very beste that euer haue wryten vppon the scrypture of god in Crystes chirche and whyche bene holy sayntes in heuen and suche as sufferd persecucyon for goddes sake do testyfye for our parte that the thynges whych the catholyke chirche vnyuersally â—yleueth and vseth are nothynge to be douted of but to be byleued and vsed whyther they be founden in scrypture or not And ye se that they saye that the apostles taught and delyuered to the chyrche dyuerse thynges by mouth bysyde all that they wrote whyche thyng saynt Poule sayth also hym self and yet bysyde that we se that of his wrytynge there is parte soste ye se also that some suche thynges as Tyndale sayeth that the popes haue oflate fayned them selfe for theyr lucre as the masse and the paynes of purgatory both saynte Austayne and saynte Chrysostome and other holy sayntes saye that the thynges were byleued vsed and taught by the apostles them selfe 〈◊〉 as for the olde holy doctours ye se howe farre they 〈◊〉 Tyndale and therfore of Tyndale or theym byleue whom ye lyke â—este for me and consyder well wyth your selfe wyth whyther of those two were surer to sende your soules yet is there as old as any that I haue rehersed yet saynt Polycarpus the dyscyple of saynte IohnÌ„ whyche wrote a boke of the tradycyons geuen vnto the chyrche by the apostles whyche wolde playnely haue proued Tyndale a fole and a lyar both yf the boke hadde not ben loste And vndoutely god wolde neuer haue sufferd yt to be loste yf he coulde not haue kepte hys tradycyons without wrytynge How be yt what nede we better or elder then as I byfore haue sayde the authoryte of saynte IohnÌ„ hym selfe in hys laste chapyter of the gospell Many thynges were done that are not writen in this boke or of saynt Poule wrytyng hym selfe to the Corynthyes All other thynges I wyll ordeyne when I come my selfe and to the Thessalonycenses kepe you my preceptes or institucyons whych I haue geuen you eyther by worde or by my pystle By whych wordes yt appereth well that he had wryten vnto them byfore that then was holy scrypture and yet hadde â—en yf yt hadde ben kepte and preserued and was not wythout good thynges therin and necessarye wherof parte may be suche thynges as the heretykes now do barke at bycause the pystle is loste But god is not loste that preserueth styll the mater though he lette go the letter Saynte Poule also to Timothe wryteth of such vnwryten tradycyons well and playnely in his secunde pystle in these wordes Thou therfore my son Timothe be comforted in the grace that is Cryste Iesu and those thynges that thou haste herd of me by many wytnesses commyte theym vnto faythfull men such as shal be mete to teche them forth to other men Those wordes of saynt Poule do very playnely shew that some thynges there were whyche saynt Poule taught Timothe and that in presence of certayne good vertues wytnesse and whyche thynges were as saynt Ambrose sayth secrete mysteries whych thynges he there coÌ„maunded Timothe to commytte also to other faythfull men suche as shold be able and mete to teche to th entent that they myght teche the same thynges farther and whiche be some of such thynges as these heretyques now barke at that are comen fro mouth to mouth and from hande to hande from the apostles dayes vnto our owne It is a myche lesse thynge also to byleue our selfe to be bounden to do a thynge of necessyte wythout authoryte of scrypture then to thynke our selfe wythoute scrypture vnbounden and in no necessyte to do the thynge whyche we fynde commaunded in scrypture But we fynde commaunded in scrypture fyrst by the law of nature and after in the law wryten the olde law wyth a cause annexed for vyolatyng of nature and after agayne by the apostles as I haue rehersed in the new law the .xv. of the actes that men sholde abstayne from strangled and from bloode of whyche coÌ„maundement in scrypture we se no dyscharge but the custome of the catholyke chyrch yet hath Tyndale
preched what auayleth it to lay manyfeste holy scrypture to Tyndale that forceth so lytell so manyfestely to mokke it Tyndale cryeth out that euery man myssecoÌ„strueth the scrypture and then hym selfe ye se what construccyon he maketh Saynt Paule sayth playnly that Timothe receyued grace by the puttynge of hys handes vppon hym And Tyndale letteth not to tell hym as playnely nay and that he dyd but stroke Timothees hed and call hym good sonne by lykely hede bycause he was but yonge But how so euer Tyndale lyste to tryfle these places playnely reproue and connycte hys heresye and proue prestehed an holy sacrament Now falleth he to raylyngâ— vppon the holy ceremonyes of prestehed as shauynge anoyntynge And fyrste he sayth that yf onely shauen and anoynted may preche or coÌ„secrate the sacramentys then Cryste dyd them not nor none of his apostles nor any man in longe tyme after for they vsed no suche ceremonyes Thys is a worthy ieste I promyse you If melysted here to tryfle as Tyndale doeth I coude aske hym how he proueth that saynt Peter was neuer shauen syth I suppose he neueâ— saw hym or yf he wolde put me to proue that he was shauâ—n and therin when I coude fynde no playne scrypture for itâ— Tynâ—ale wold not byleue me but yf I broughte forth hys barbâ—â—â— I myghte tell Tyndale agayne that I were not bosideâ—â—yth the sâ—â—â—pture sheweth it not to byleue hym that â—ayn◠〈…〉 cryâ—tened tyll Tyndale brynge forthe hys godfather But these fantasyes of hys and myne bothe go farre fro the mater The trouth is that as god by Moyses taughte hys synagoge certayne goodly ceremonyes for the garnysshynge of the seruyce done to hym by his chosen people there and for the styrynge of them to deuocyon so hath he by hys owne holy spyryte whom he sent to instructe hys chyrche taught them holy ceremonyes to be vsed about hys blessed sacrameÌ„tes to the honour therof and to the encreace of crysten mennys deuocyon as in dede it doth what so euer Tyndale bable Now be there amonge these the shauynge and the anoyntynge of the preste And so is there thapparayle of the preste at masse and many other obseruauÌ„ces vsed in the same Now yf some of the same were before vsed eyther amonge iewes or paynyms yet Crystes chyrche borowed them neyther of the iewes nor the paynyms as Tyndale sayth but toke them agayne of god Now where Tyndale argueth that yf none maye consecrate the sacrament but onely shauen and anoynted then Cryste nor any of hys apostles myghte not bycause they were neuer shauen nor anoynted he maketh a worshyppefull reason For fyrste our sauyour Cryste the very inwarde anoynted preste whom god hadde anoynted wyth the oyle of gladnes aboue all hys felowes neded neyther ceremony nor sacrament as towchynge hym selfe And as towchynge hys apostles though Cryste vnto them instytuted sacramentes yet he lefte many of the ceremonyes to the holy ghoste to teche by whom they be instytuted and by whom they be in the chyrche contynued Now is there none that maye consâ—crate the sacrament but yf he be fyrste made preste and preâ—te is there none made but the ceremonyes of shauynge and anoyntynge are vsed in the makynge though they be not the substaunce of the sacrament of order no more then the cathecismes and exorcismâ—â— at the crystenyng be of the substauÌ„ce of the sacrament of baâ—â—ysme And therfore though before those ceremonyes vsed prestes myghte consecrate vnshauen and vnanoynted when shauynge and anoyntyng was not yet instytuted yet now can there none do so syth there is no preste made vnshauen and vnanoynted For yf they make any at wytteÌ„berge by a bare choyse wythout the gyuynge of the sacrament of holy orders by such as haue power to gyue them they be no prestâ—◠〈◊〉 maye not consecrate at all no more then maye th◠〈◊〉 Tyndale And seynge that the oyle is not of necessite let M. More tell me what more vertue is in the oyle of confyrmacyon in as mych as the byshoppe sacryth the one as well as the other ye and let hym tell the reason why there shuld be more vertue in the oyle wherewith the byshoppe anoynteth his prestes Lette hym tell you from whence the oyle cometh how it is made and why he selleth yt to the curates wherewyth they anoynte the sycke or whether this be of lesse vertue then the other More Tyndale here putteth many questyons to me whyche he wyll that I muste nedys answere bycause the oyle in the makynge of a preste is not of necessyte but surely these questyons be to the mater of mych lesse necessyte How be it bycause I must nedys answere to men of suche authoryte when the questyons be so solempnely put I saye that yf a bysshoppe sacre the tone oyle and the tother bothe alyke there is no more vertue in the tone then is in the tother But I say that the oyle beynge all one it is in the anoyntynge of the preste an holy ceremony and in the anoyntynge of the chylde at confyrmacyon it is the mater of an holy sacrament and in yâ— anelyng of the sycke also and euery of these two is one of the seuen whyche the spyryte of god hath taught the chyrche of Cryste to knowe and vse for .vii. souerayne meanys of very specyall grace And therfore such dyfference is there as is bytwene the halowed water standynge in the font before it be occupyed or yf it were sprynkled vppon a man for holy water and the same holowed water beynge occupyed in the crystenynge of a chylde at the tyme in whyche it is applyed thereto For in that tyme besyde the goodnes that it hath of the halowyng it hath a nother effectuall goodnes by goddys ordynaunce whereby it is made a meane of purgyng the soule fro synne andâ— infusyon of goddys grace and of enablynge the newe regendred creature to inherytaunce of heuyn And when Tyndale asketh me in any of these thynges the cause the reason why I myght as well aske hym the cause and reason why in the nature and properte of any naturall thynge beste herbe tre or stone whych yf I were so madde to loke that Tyndale were able to tell me what had he more to saye then that god had planted that nature and properte therinâ— whych answere shall also serue in these holy ceremonyes and â—aâ—rameÌ„tes wherof the vertues be caused by goddes ordynaâ—â—ce thorow his holy wordes whereof the profyte is lymytâ—â— and poâ—â—â—nâ—d after such rate and degreesâ— as is to no man full perfitely knoweÌ„ but onely to god that gyueth it And thus answere I Tyndale to these qstyones He asketh farther from whence the oyle coÌ„meth and wherof yt is made what is that any more to the mater then froÌ„ wheÌ„s the water is fet that is put in to the fonte or of what grapes the wyne was made that Cryst at his mauÌ„dye turned iÌ„to his blood Now where he asketh me why the byshope selleth it
vnto the curates wherewith they anoynt the sycke thereto I saye that the byshoppe sendeth yt to the curates bycause they shold therwith anoynte the sycke in the sacrameÌ„t of anoylyng But why he selleth yt to the curates yf he so dyd therof can I not tell the cause but yf yt were peradueÌ„ture bycause he wold be payed therfore But I caÌ„ tell well that the byshop selleth it not to curates nor no man ellis but the curatis haue it sent theÌ„ fre but if they reward the brynger of theyr courtesy with a grote which brynger is yet the archidecons seruauÌ„t not the byshops And this I can tell for I haue inquyred for the nonys And by this caÌ„ I tell as well yâ— Tindale here bylyeth the byshope shamfully for the nonys Tyndale And when he affyrmeth that I saye how the oylynge and shauyng is no parte of the presthed that improueth he not nor can do and therfore I saye yt yet More It is very truth that I improue hym not in that poynt but am well content that he saye yt yet and I wyll saye the same But I improue that he sayth euery Crysten man and euery woman to is as veryly a preste as these that at the recepte of that holy order are both anoynted and shaueÌ„ This is yt that I improue and this is yt that is a starke heresye though Tyndale saye yt yet Tyndale When he enserched the vttermost that he caÌ„ this is all that he caÌ„ say agaynst me that of an huÌ„dred there be not tenne that haue the propertees which Paule requyreth to be in them Wherfore yf oylynge and shauyâ—ge be no parte of theyr preesthed then euer more of a thousanâ—e .ix. hundred at the leâ—te sholde be no prestes at all And quoth your frende wolde confyrme yt wyth an othe and â—were depely that yt wolde folowe and that it muste nedys so be Whych argument yet yf there were none other shyfte I wolde solue after an Oxforde fashyon wyth concedo couse quentiam consequens More Tyndale here maketh a tale as though yt were a dyaloge or rather a tryaloge bytwene hymselfe the messenger and me sayenge that I in my dialoge dyd alledge that yf â—ylynge and shauynge were no parte of theyr prâ—â—â—hâ—d then of a thousande prestes nyne hoÌ„dred at the leste were no prestes at all for lakke that â—f an hundred prestes there be not tenne that haue the propertes that saynt Paule requyreth to be in them And he sayth the messenger wolde afferme yt wyth a great othe and that hym selfe wolde yf there were none other shyfte soyle yt after an Oxforde fashyon wyth concedo consequentiam consequens wherin he meaneth that syth he sheweth none other shyft he grauÌ„ted both twayne for trew that is to wytte that excepte oylynge and shauynge be parte of the prestehed ellys yt muste nedys folow that of a thousande prestes nyne hundred be none at all for lakke of good condycyons And also he graunteth not onely that of reason yt wolde so folow but also that yt is trew in dede that for as so myche as oylyng and shauyng be not the thynges that maketh them prestes and good coÌ„dicyons they lakke therfore they be no prestes at all But for as mych as he sayth that he wyll soyle yt so for lakke of other shyfte he shall not nede so to do for I wyll fynde hym a nother shyfte my selfe and a playne contrarye shyfte and soyle yt wyth nego consequentiaÌ„ consequens For where as he graunteth bothe to be trew I saye that they be bothe false And where as he maketh as though they were myne owne wordes and the messengers with me in good fayth I neyther remember them nor fynde theÌ„ all be yt that I haue purposely loked for them in all such places of my dyaloge as me thought yt shold be yf yt were there at all And therefore leuynge the poynt in questyone betwene vs tyll I come to replye to his answere made vnto my dialoge at whyche tyme I shall rede yt ouer of necessyte and muste nedes fynd yt yf yt be therin I wyll iâ— the meane whyle not let if I sayed yt my selfe to say that I sayd wronge For by goddes grace neuer wyll I wyttyngly whyle I lyue defende the thynge that my selfe shall thynke vntrew though yt hadde happed me to saye yt my selfe but that I shall well and playnely reuoke yt and call yt bakke not dissymulyng myn owne ouer syght And wold god Tyndale wolde do the lyke Luther to they sholde then neyther so styffely defende so shamelesse heresyes as they do nor make so shamelesse gloses of theyr owne formare wordes when they se them so reproued that they can in no wise defende them nor so shamefully chaung from worse to worse as Luther hath agaynste his owne coÌ„scyence done in some one mater thryes To the mater I saye therfore that yt is false that yf oylynge and shauynge be no parte of the presthed then it must folow that of a thousande there be .ix. hundred no preestys at all For I say that oylynge and shauyng be no parte of the presthed in dede but be holy ceremonyes vsed about the coÌ„secracyon lykewyse as in matrymony and baptysme both be dyuerse holy ceremonyes vsed that be not the essencyall poyntes of those sacramentes And therfore is yt false that yf oylynge and shauynge be no parte of the presthed the prest is no preste for lakke of prestely vertues For the holy sacrament of order is gyuen hym by the imposycyon of the bysshoppes handes vppon hym in such wyse as the chyrche of Cryste vseth and euer hath vsed synnys the deth of Cryste vnto these dayes And that the grace by god appoynted vnto holy orders is geuen wyth that puttyng vppon of the handes is twyes declared by saynt Paule in his pystles to Tymothe that so playnely that yt greueth Tyndales herte to here thereof and maketh hym to make a mokke thereat and saye it was but lyke as a man layeth his hande on a boyes hed when he calleth hym good sonne But the place is for all that so playne that when Tyndale so playeth therwyth and so lawgheth thereat he lawgheth but from the lyppes forwarde and gyrneth as a dog doth when one porreth hym in the teeth wyth a stykke And thus haue I proued the consequency to be false which Tyndale graunteth for trew Now to thet other parte that is to wyt the consequente whych he graunteth for trew also I saye that yt is false also For lyke wyse as he graunteth that a preste is no preste at all for lakke of prestely condycyons so myght he saye as well that a crysten man is not crystyned at all for lakke of crysten condycyons And bycause Tyndale wyll haue a preste nothyng but an offycer yet after his owne false and fonde fashyon he sholde not graunte yt for trew For then muste he saye that euery euyll offycer mayre baylye constable or shyryffe yf he mysse