Againe vpon the 37. Psalme They would be secure c. not onlie from that eternall fire which shall torment the wicked for euer but also from that too wich shall purge emendabit those who shall be safe by fire And a little aster That fire shall be more grieuous then any thing a man can suffer in this life Now we haue found in the Fathers formall tearmes not in our owne forced consequences which were not in question Prayer made at the Altar Sacrisice for the Dead yea and Fire too wherein their soules are tormented and yet some will not be satisfied but will haue that fire to be vnderstood of the Fire of Conflagration at the day of Doome Let vs therefore yet heare saint Augustine wipe awaie this scruple De Ciu. Dei l. 21. c. 23. Paines suffered before the day of Iudgement And it is manifest that such are purged by temporall paines which their spirits suffer before the day of iudgement Againe in the same booke chap. 13. Some suffer temporall paines in this life onlie others after death some both now and then yet before that most seuere and last Iudgement And the same againe the 21 booke chapter the first So that now out of S. Augustine we haue found Prayer Memorie at the Altar Sacrifice Fire which is temporall and that too punishing the spirit or ghost of the dead euen before the day of Generall Conslagration at the day of Doome To thinke to answer all that hath benesaid by opposing some few obscure places cull'd out of the same Father and so were it possible to force him to contradict himselfe were in my iudgment but verie bad payment For first this is not to produce euidences but doubts not to cleare but to obscure difficulties and consequently ought to haue no force at all to thrust a man out of his possession Possideo quia possideo still dasheth such weake opposition vpon the head Secondly it is but a poore shift to make a Father seeme to stand up against himselfe to the end he may stand with them Thirdly it is to treate a holy Father vnworthily to endeauour to draw his sense from his words In his booke de Doctrina Christiana against his owne rule and the Rule of Reason which is that clearer places should illustrate obscure places not that obscure places should be industriously employed to clowde cleare places That is but to put out the light to see better or rather to hate and flye the light least it might lay them naked and they be discouered by it The worst of arguments was wōt to be to ayme to proue an obscure thing by a thing more obscure and yet it is farre worse to darken a cleare thing by an obscure and yet forsooth thinke to haue so preposterous a proceeding passe for an argument Our proceeding is not such our Catholike custome is to pray for to make Commemoration of to Sacrifice at the Altar for the soules departed that they may be releeued or freed from their paines which are caused by fire before the day of iudgement And we bring in our iudge saint Augustine to whom we haue both appealed pronouncing sentence for vs in tearmes in the verie same wordes the Church doth beleeue and practise it We doe not make his sentence for him but take from him such as he pleaseth to deliuer it We vse no violence to him to make him speake what we please but we are well pleased with what he speakes we goe not about to surprise him and wrest a word from him and then force it to our purpose which was spoken only by the bye while he was treating vpon another subiect But wee take his iudgement from places where on sett purpose he is handling that subiect which is in question betwixt vs. In fine wee take it not from one or a fewe which is another Rule of reason to vnderstand a fewe places by many places but from abundance of places all cleare and consonant and to the life expressing the present practice of the Catholike Church Heare him againe and againe in these ensuing passages which I will here promiscuously putt downe as they shall occurre omitting yet a manie more S. Aug. de Ciu. Dei l. 21. c. 16. He speakes of Children soone after their infancie and saies If he haue receiued the Sacraments of our Mediatour though he end his life euen in these yeares that is being translated out of the power of darknes into the kingdome of Christ he is not only not prepared for paines eternall but shall not euen suffer anie purging torments after this life De Ciu. Dei l. 21. c. 24. The prayer of the Church or of certaine pious people are heard for those who being regenerated in Christ neither ledd se verie ill a life in this mortalitie as they should be iudged vnworthie of such mercie nor yet so verie well as that they should be found not to neede such mercie De verb. Apost Ser. 32. It is not to be doubted but the Dead are helped by the prayers of the holy Church and the sauing Sacrifice and almes which are employed for their soules that our Lord may deale more mercifully with them then their sinnes deserued for the Vniuersall Church obserues this deliuered by their forefathers that prayers should be made for those who died in the communion of the bodie and bloud of Christ when at the Sacrifice they are remembred in their place and memorie is made that it is offered euen for them too And againe in the same place But let them employ these things to witt Oblations Prayers and guifts or Almes-deeds which helpe the soules departed more obseruantly instanly and abundantly for them to witt the dead Enchir. c. 110. It ought not to be denied that the soules of the dead are releeued by the pietie of their suruiuing friends when the Sacrifice of our Mediatour is offered for them or almes are giuen in the Church And againe in the same place When therefore the sacrifices either of the altar or what almes-deedes soeuer are offered for all the dead which are baptised they are thankesguings for such as are verie good they are propitations for those who are not verie euill and though to such as are verie euill they be no helpes to the dead yet are they some kind of comforts to the liuing De verbis Apostoli Serm. 17. Therefore doth ecclesiasticall discipline obserue that which the faithfull know when the Martyrs in that place are recited at the Altar of God where we pray not for them the Martyrs but we pray for the rest of the departed whereof commemoration is made For it is an iniurie to pray for a martyr to whose prayers we our-selues ought to be commended De cura pro mortuis Cap. 18. Which being so let vs not esteeme that the dead haue anie aduantage by being buried in this or that part of the Church whereof he had spoken saue only by the solemne supplications which we make
haueing bene primarily instituted to signifie the voyce which the Citizens of Rome gaue in the election of any Magistrate or in the resolution of any other importÌ„at affaire of the CoÌ„mon wealth put to the peoples deliberation Whence we are wont to say that Bishops onely haue right of suffrage or deliberatiue voyces in the Councells c. Hence such towards the Emperours as had the credit to giue their voyces aduice or opinion touching the capacities or incapacities of persons pretending preferments were called suffragators that is informers helping to supplie the Emperours want of knowledge of the merits or demerits of particular persons ayming to beare office in the common wealth And such suffragators saith the Authour and we with him God needs none sith as is said in the same place For be knowes all mens merits from whom nothing lyes hid and so needs not any to informe him of the worth and abilities of his subiects as the Emperours needed the aduice of the Tribunes or Gouernours of Prouinces of the sufficiencie of persons within their precincts and was inabled therby to discerne who were fitt to be imployed Now that it is not a meere imagination of myne for the clearing of this place but a certaine trueth that it was conceaued by some heathen Philosophers that the greater God or Gods stood in need of aduice from the lesser Gods Angels or deuils let S. Aug. speake Cittie of God l 8. c. 28. Some heatheÌ„ Philosophers thinke saith he that the celestiall Gods who haue care of humane affaires would not know what men doe if the deuils of the ayre did not announce it to them because heauen is farre distant from earth and suspended on high In his bookâ— de Mundo wheras the ayre is contiguous or toucheth to Heauen and earth And Aristotle seemes to say no lesse where he compares God with the great king of Persia c. S. Chrysostome Hom. de Profectu Euang. Cos. We are more preualent with God when we pray to him by our selues then when others pray for vs You haue no need of a Patron with God Car. Here are two things affirmed and both true being well vnderstood and make nothing at all against vs The first that a man is more preualent praying alone for him selfe theÌ„ wheÌ„ others pray for him That is it is a surer way to be heard for a man to pray for himselfe then onely to depend vpon another mans prayers he not praying himselfe The second That a man hath no need of a Patron with â—â—od Absolutely as that God would not heare him without a Patron I grantâ—â— And what is this against a Catholike And thus or to this effect must as well the D. as we interpret him vnlesse we will haue him to make head against common sense S. Paul and himselfe where he speakes and that more plainly of the intercession of Saints for here indeed despeakes not of it at all vnlesse in coÌ„sequence and therfore this is not the fittest place to decide a controuersie That he Should oppose common sense it is euident because at least if anothers prayers helpe not no reason can be suggested why they should hurt and therfore we should be more preualent praying alone That he should contradict S. Pauls counsell is no lesse manifest who in the 5. Thess 25. verse saith Brethren pray for vs. Heb. 13. ver 18. Pray for vs and the 5. of S. lames ver 16. Pray for one another that you may be saued And that he should quarrell with himselfe is as cleare if we reade what he saith in his 28. Homilie to the people of Antioche touching the intercession of the Angels in the tyme of the Sacrifice The Angels doe then in lieu of olie branches propose the verie body of our Lord pray for mankind as though they should say We pray ô Lord for these whom thou hast loued in so large measure that for their loue thou incurredst death and gauest vp thy spirit vpon the Crosse we beseech thee for these for whom thou freely gauest thy blood we pray to thee for those for whom thou diddest Sacrifice this body Giue therfore this flood of eloquence leaue to speake for himselfe and he will sweepe away all hints for cauills to catch hold on If we be negligent saith he and slouthfull we cannot be saued euen by the merits of others c. But these things we say not to deny that one may pray to the Saints for sinners In Math. Hom. 8. but least we our selues might fall into slouth and idlenes and leaue the care of our owne affaires to others while we our selues sleepe Againe The prayers and supplications of Saints haue force for vs in Matt. Hom 5. yea and that most great Marry then it is when we our selues too demande the same thing by Pennance Againe Wherfore let vs frequently visite them le ts touch their shrines and with great faith embrace their reliques to the end we may receiue some benediction for as soldiers shew the wounds which they receiue in battell to the king speaking with confidence so these bearing their heads which were cutt of Hom. 40. to the people of Antioche and proposing them are able to obtayne of the king of heauen what ere they please S Epiphanius haer 79. Cos. LEt no body worship the Virgin Marie nor any man or woman besides To God is this holines or religion due Car. Let no man worship her as à Goddesse by giuing her soueraigne honour testified by sacrifice I grant it Let no man worship her by ascribing to her inferiour honour I deny it And that both the parts of this distinction is saint Epiphan not my ne and consequently that it was his true sense is euident to any who will please to looke vpon the place For first the title is against the Collyridians womeÌ„ who sacrificed a loafe a bunne or cake whence they take their name to our B. Lady and the whole discourse is spent vpon the same subiect all through distinguishing betwixt soueraigne worship expressed by adoration and subordinate worship by the word honour As let Marie be honored but let the Father Sonne and holy Gh. be adored And againe Though Marie be most beautifull holy and bonored yet not so farre forth as to be adored In fine he concludes in these words Let Marie be honoured Let Christ be adored fiat fiat Bede in Prouerb Cos. We ought to inuocate that is by prayer to call vpon none for helpe but God alone Car. The answer is easie adde onely two litle monosyllables which you haue left out to witt in nos into vs and leaue out as many for helpe and read We ought to inuocate that is by prayer to call into vs none but God alone and you will perceiue the difficultie insensibly and without force vanished away For the rest if you desire indeed to know S. Bedes sense vpon this subiect be pleased to read him vpoÌ„ the 4th of S.
pardonable in other questions which are not yet maturely digested De verbis Apost Serm. 14. nor confirmed by the full authoritie of the Church their errour is to be borne with but it must not aduance so farre as to endeauour to shake the verie foundation of the Church Of the Popes supremacie Against the Popes supremacie Mr Cosen 's vsed 4. or fiue arguments which I will put downe as they past The first Cos S. Gregorie being demanded certaine questiōs of Augustine Achb. of Canterburie answered him that he was to learne of neighbour Churches how he was to behaue himselfe seeming thereby to say in effect why doest thou aske me who haue noe such authoritie learne of the neerest Churches c. Carre To this it was answered that this obiection was nothing to the purpose because S. Augustins demaund was in matter of ceremonie not of Faith of particular obseruance of a small part of the Church not of the generall gouernment of the whole wherein the Popes supreme power is especially and properly exercised and knowne For these are the words of his third demaund Why there being but one faith are the customes of Churches so diuers And there is one custome of Masses in the Romane Church and another is obserued in the Churches of France So that it appeares euidently that saint Augustins demand to saint Gregorie was onely about the diuers customes of saying Masse the verie word will hardly now be welcome and was indeed like to that of Ianuarius to the great saint Augustine Doctor of the Church Epist 209. and saint Gregories answer againe entirely consonant to the great S. Augustines speaking of an indifferent no necessarie obseruation Le ts heare them both Saint Gregory Your brotherhood is acquainted with the custome of the Church wherein you will remember you were bred But it pleaseth me that if you haue found any thing either in the holy Romane Church that of France or in what other soeuer which may be more agreeable to Almightie God you carefully make choyce of it and powre out by speciall institution in the English Church which is as yet young in faith the choycest things which you can cull out of diuers Churches for the things ought not to be loued in respect of the places but the places by reason of good things Cull therfore what is religious pious and right out of what Church soeuer and hauing gathered them as it were into a bundle settle them as a custome in the heart of the English Saint Augustine vpon the like occasion But other things which are diuersified in diuers places and regions as is that that some fast saturday some not some dayly communicate the body and bloud of our Lord others receiue certaine dayes onely in some place no day is omitted wherein it is not offered in others on saturday and sunday onely in others againe on sunday alone or what euer may be obserued of this nature the whole kind of them haue free obseruances nor can a graue and prudent Christian obserue any better rule or discipline herein then to behaue himselfe according to the Church where he chanceth for the time to light for what is neither enioyned against faith nor good manners may be indifferently obserued and may be kept for their societie amongst whom we liue Now how out of these premises of Saint Gregorie this conclusion which was in question Ergo saint Gregorie did not acknowledge himselfe the Head of the Church can be inferred I confesse I am not able to diuine It will belong to him who made vse of it to make it appeare or els to cease with his to bragge of a victorie when the weakest may discouer he falls so farre short of all shew of a proofe and consequenly as was replyed in his presence that passage alleadged made nothing at all to the purpose pretended which was to conclude against the Popes supremacie For the rest how truly saint Gregorie did acknowledge vindicate and exercise the supreme authoritie of the Church of Rome shall be made manifestly and plentifully appeare vpon occasions of answer to Mr Doctors other obiections as they occurre Though the same might be partly obserued too euen out of his said replyes to saint Augustins questions as when he saith to the 9th quest We giue thee no authoritie ouer the Bishops of France because the Bishop of Arles receiued the Pall from ancient tymes of my predecessours whom we ought not to depriue of the authoritie receiued Againe in the same place But we committ the care of all the Brittain Bishops to thy brotherhood that the vnlearned may be taught the infirme strengthened by persuasion the peruerse corrected by authoritie Againe in the answer to the 8. quest We will haue thy Brotherhood so to order Bishops in England c. OBSERVATION Marke how he giues him authoritie ouer the Bishops of Britanie denyes him authoritie ouer the Bishops of France as hauing formerly receiued authoritie from the same sea by the gift of a pall which is practised by the Romane Church till this day finally how he expresses himselfe by Volumus we will c. all which are the words of a master and speake his power to the life at least if we make him the iudge of the Controuersie as Mr Cosens his argument will haue it Cos Againe the same saint Gregorie cryed out against Iohn Patriar of Constantinople for proudly assuming to himselfe the pompous name of vniuersall Bishop c. ergo he did not allow the supremacie of Rome Carre This was his seconde medium and I confesse it were specious enough had it neuer before bene heard of but being too obuious and euen worne thread-bare with euery ones frequent handling it is transparent to vulgar eyes and he walkes but in a nett who makes vse of it for a cloke To this my answer was that therfore saint Gregorie exclaimed against the proud and pompous title of VNIVERSALL BISHOP vhich Iohn Patriarke of Constantinople assumed to himselfe because he apprchended that thereby all the office or dignitie of Bishop was absorpt or exhausted so as none should be Bishop but himselfe Now whether this apprehension was true we labour not it is sufficiēt to shew that saint Gregorie at least made such a conceipt or feared so much Which is euident by these passages drawen out of his owne Epistles 1. l. 4. Epist 32. If therfore saith he that name of vniuersall Bishop be assumed by any to himselfe in that Church c. the vniuersall Church therfore which God forbid doth fall from its state when he falls which is called vniuersall But may that name of blasphemy be farre from the hearts of Christians wherein the honour of all priests is taken away while one doth madly arrogate it wholly to himselfe 2. And it is very hard to be patiently endured in so much as despising all Epist 34. l. 4. Indict 13. my said Brother fellow Bishop should only endeauour to be called The Bishop
obserued where he exclaimes against that pompous title of vniuersall saying It is euident to all who know the Gospell that the care of the whole Church is committed by our Lords voyce to S. Peter the Apostle the Prince of all the Apostles for to him it was said Peter doest thou loue me feede my sheepe c. beholde he receiues the keyes of the kingdome of heauen the power of binding ad loosing is giuen to him the care and principalitie principatus soueraigntie or dominion of the whole Church is committed to him and yet he is not called vniuersall Apostle OBSERVATION Receiue from saint Gregories owne mouth then that the Sea Apostolique is the head of all the Churches That all Bishops found in fault are subiect to it That Peter was placed ouer all the Churches That the Roman Church is the head of all the Churches That it is knowne to all that know the Gospell that the Care of the whole Church is committed by our Lord himselfe to Peter the Prince of all the Apostles and that yet he is not called vniuersall Apostle What other thing is this I pray then to crye out with a lowde voyce and to make open demonstration to all the world that while he exclaymes against the title of vniuersall Bishop he refuses not the headship of all the Churches but professeth to haue iurisdiction and superintendencie ouer all the other Bishops Archbishops and Patriarkes as doth partly appeare by what I haue alreadie cited out of him and more fully shall yet appeare in my ensuing discourse THE II. TITLE WHEREBY saint Gregorie makes good the supremacie is The exercice of such power all ouer the Christian world FIRST ouer the Bishops of Europe l. 12. Ep. 15. to s. Aug. in particular ouer the Bishops of England Let the Bishop of Yorke order 12. Bishops and enioy the honour of a Metropolitane but let all the Bishops of England be subiect to thy brotherhood Secondly l. 7. Ep. 112. ouer the Bishops of France Granting the vse of the Pall to the Bishop of Auston he saith And withall we perceiued we were to grant that the Church of the cittie of Auston should be after the Church of Lions and to challenge to it selfe this place and rancke by the fauour indulgentia of our Authoritie Thirdly ouer the Bishops of Spayne saying Let him who presumed while the innocent Bishop was yet aliue to be ordered in his Church against the Canons being depriued of priesthood be cast out of all Church-ministerie and withall let him be kept in safe custodie or els be sent vnto vs. Let the Bishops who ordered him being depriued of the Communion of the body and bloud of our Lord for the space of six monthes be appointed to doe pennance in a Monasterie Fourthly l. 7. Ep. 32. Ouer the Bishops of Africa In particular thus to the Bishop of Carthage By louing the Sea Apostolique you baue recourse to the source of your office or dignitie knowing whence priestly ordination had its beginning in Africa Againe l. 10. Ep. 2. Writing to Columbus a Bishop of Numidie c. he saith You are diligently to examine all the contents of his Petition to witt Donadeus Deacon degraded by Victor a Bishop of Numidie and if his complaint be accompanied with truth let canonicall rigour be vsed against his Bishop Victor Fiftly l. 2. Ep. 6. Ouer the Bishops of Greece In particular ouer Iohn Bishop of Iustiniana prima in these words As for the present hauing first disannulled and made of no effect the Decrees of thy sentence we decree by the authoritie of Blessed Peter Prince of the Apostles that for thirtie dayes space thou shalt be depriued of the holy Communion that with verie great pennance and teares thou mayst preuayle with Almightie God to pardon thy so great an excesse And if we shall come to perceiue that thou doest coldly performe our sentence know that then not barely thy iniustice but the contumacie also of thy brotherhood shall be more seuerely punished Againe l. 5. Ep. 7. Writing to the Bishops of Epirus he saith Know that we haue sent a Pall to Andrew our brother and fellow-Bishop and haue graunted or confirmed him all the priuiledges which our predecessours conferred vpon his Againe Writing to Iohn Bishop of Corinth l. 4. Ep. 51. touching Secūdinus a Bishop whom he had deputed to examine and depose one Anastasius Bishop quam causam ei examinandam iniunximus he saith And because in that sentence whereby it is euident that the fore named Anastasius was iustly condemned and deposed our fore-mentioned brother and fellow Bishop so punished certaine persons that he reserued them to our arbitrimēet And a litle after speaking of another we pardō him this fault and we appoint that he should be receiued in his rancke and place Againe We will haue them to witt Euphemius and Thomas to remayne deposed as they are and we decree that they shall neuer more be receiued into holy orders vnder what pretext of excuse soeuer Sixtly l. 5. Ep. 14. Writing to Marinianus Bishop of Rauenna vpō the difference which was betweene his Church and Claudius the Abbot he saith And doe not you your selfe know that in the cause which was agitated by Iohn Priest against Iohn of Constantinople our brother and fellow Bishop recourse was made to the Sea Apostolique following the Canons and the cause was ended definita by our Sentence And thence saint Gregorie frames an argument a fortiori in these words which immediatly follow If therfore the cause be deuolued to our knowledge euen from the Cittie where the Prince to witt the Emperour resides how much more is the busines which is against you to be determined or iudged here the trueth being knowne The like speeches bearing a face of authoritie with them are all his Epistles so full of as may with ease be seene in Dr. Sander's visible Monarchie that who would take the paines could hardly light vpon an Epistle where he should not meete with thē If he should looke vpon the 11. booke and 10. Epistle he would finde him instile the kings his sonnes saying according to the writing of our sonnes the most excellent kings c. And in the end of the same Ep. And we command that all these things shall be obserued for euer which are contayned in this our Decree as well by thy selfe he speakes to a certaine Abbot as by all those who shall succeede in thy place and rancke or whom it may otherwise concerne And if any king Priest Iudge or secular person hauing knowledge of this our Constitution shall offer to oppose it let him be depriued of his honour and dignitie and acknowledge that he stands guiltie of the iniquitie committed in the sight of the diuine iudgement And vnlesse he doe either restore the things which he wickedly tooke away or expiate his iniquitie with the teares of worthy repentance let him be kept from the most sacred body
and bloud of our Lord God Iesus Christ our Redeemer and be lyable to a strict punishment at the day of Doome If vpon the 4. booke 34. Chap. there he excommunicates or suspends from Masse the Bishop of Salonitane who was made without his knowledge against custome as he complaynes The Bishop of the Cittie of Salonitane was ordered without my owne or my Nuncius his knowledge wherein a thing was done which neuer happened vnder the reigne of any the preceeding Princes And concludes with a couered reflection or reprehension against the Emperours themselues And saith he if the causes of Bishops who are committed to me are carried with my most pious Lords by syding and the supportation of others what doe I vnhappie man in this Church But I giue thankes to God and impute it to myne owne sinnes that my Bishops should contemne me and flie to secular Iudges for refuge against me In conclusion fearing to trespasse vpon the patience of my gentle Reader I omitt a number of other cleare passages and appeale to euery Christian heart whether it be not euen industriously to endeauour ones owne losse to dwell vpon the words of an Authour which manifestly contayne some doubtfull and odious sense and thence force the conclusion to what our passion aymes at without going on with the same Authour to heare him out and to take along with vs what he plainely positiuely and frequently deliuers vpon the same subiect It is true sainct Gregorie cryes out against the proud title of vniuersall Bishop yet speakes he not in a limited sense and points he not particularly at what he feares in it saying Least all priests should be thereby depriued of due honour Least he should endeauour to be called Bishop alone c. as I haue intimated from himselfe aboue pag. 123. But is it not also true that he more then any such is God's prouidence preaches proclaimes practises the power of supreme Head of the vniuersall Church Tearming the Sea of Rome THE HEAD OF ALL THE CHVRCHES NOT KNOWING WHAT BISHOP IS NOT SVBIECT TO IT WHERE PETER WAS APPOINTED BY ALMIGHTY GOD TO BE OVER ALL THE CHVRCH THAT NO COMMVNION IS LAWFVLL WHICH THAT CHVRCH ADMITTS NOT. THAT IT IS THE MOTHER CHVRCH THAT THEY ARE PERVERSE MEN WHO WILL NOT BE SVBIECT TO IT Will you heare these propositions secōded and confirmed by his publique practices which suffer no glosse Is it not he who gouernes and giues lawes to Europe Afrique and Asia Doth he not order all the Bishops of England to be vnder saint Augustine Doth he not sende the Pall to Auston in France and by the fauour of his authoritie rancke it next to Lions Doth he not in Spayne depriue a Bishop ordered against the Canons of Priesthoode and all Ecclesiasticall ministerie depriuing the Bishops too who consecrated him of the body and blood of Christ c. Doth he not in Afrique command Columbus to vse canonicall rigour against Bishop Victor if Donadeus Deacon whom he Victor had degraded had right on his side Doth he not in Greece by the authoritie of Blessed Peter prince of the Apostles disannulle what the Bishop of Iustiniana Prima had done and depriue him of the holy Communion for thirtie dayes Doth he not professe openly that the cause of the Patriarch of Constantinople though the Emperour resided there was according to the Canons deuolued to the Sea of Rome and was ended by his SENTENCE If we will then heare Gregorie le ts heare him throughly If we fly to his authoritie let vs stand to his verdict Let not his word be taken where it pleases you and reiected where it displeases you for so I shall haue cause to make vse of a passage of saint Augustine against the Manichees in in Ep. Fundam and say Doe you conceiue me a foole in such a measure that without giuing any reason at all I should beleeue what you please and what you please not I should not beleeue Noe that were not to deale fairely and ingenuously If Gregorie must be our vmpire LET ROME BE TEARMED THE HEAD OF ALL THE CHVRCHES as he stiles it and exercise iurisdiction ouer all the Churches as we haue seene him practise and let not VNIVERSALL BISHOP which we cannot or will not vnderstand aright stand betwixt vs as a wall of diuision a seed-plott of irreconcileable discorde The fortunes of Greece depend not vpon it nor Christian Beatitude If it signifie head or chiefe-bishop of the VNIVERSALL CHVRCH it is but ROMES DVE if it would entayle the whole right power and dignitie of Bishop vpon Rome alone Rome reiects it as sacrilegious and blasphemous and so doe we Mr Cosens his third Mediū or argument was that appeales to Rome were prohibited in the Mileuitane and 6th Carthaginean Councell and that vnder paine of excommunication Ergo the Africans did not acknowledge the Supremacie of Rome Carre My answer was that for minor or lesser persons or minor and lesser causes appeales were prohibited I granted it That Appeales were forbidden for Maior or greater persons at least in maior or greater Causes I denyed it And consequently I denyed the Conclusion intended to witt Ergo the Africans did not acknowledge the Supremacie of Rome And the reason is because the Supremacie of Rome is discerned and exercised in greater causes as in matter of faith or the generall gouernment of the vniuersall Church For such they precisely are which Rome did alwayes challenge as properly belonging to her owne iurisdiction Heare in confirmation of this what saint Gregorie writes to the Bishop of Iustiniana prima l. 2. ep 46. If any cause of faith or crime or Money-matter be commenced against our fellow-Bishop Adrian Bishop of Thebes if it be a thing of little importance let it be iudged by our Nuncio'es Responsales who are or shall be in the Royall Cittie Constantinople but if it be a matter of weight let it be referred hither to the Sea Apostolique And such Africa neuer denyed to Rome to witt aknowledgment of iurisdiction and subiection in GREATER CAVSES but contrarily had frequent recourse to the Popes of Rome with due submission and aknowledgment Yea the verie Fathers to the nūber of 61. of the Mileuitane Councell wrote to Pope Innocētius in these tearmes Wheras God by his speciall grace hath placed thee in the Sea Apostolique and hath giuen vs thee such an one talē one so qualified or so good in our dayes that it would rather be imputed to our negligence if we should conceale from thy veneration what we iudge ought to be represented for the Churches aduantage then that we neede to apprehend that thou wouldst esteeme it importune or otherwise slight the same we beseech thee daigne to employe thy pastorall care in the great dangers of the infirme members of Christ for a new and most pernicious heresie c. Againe in the same place while we intimate these things to thy Apostolicall heart we neede not vse many words to exaggerate so great
of which this is a part and particularly because you heere make a particular obiectioÌ„ against it by Matth. Paris who intimateth so much by repeating a Matth. Paris histma p. 189. the substance of this very Decree in almost as many words as they are in the Councell which are too long to set downe heere Your further say that he that made these two decrees of absoluing subiects from obedience to their Princes and of recouering the land of Promise from the Saracens may well be thought to haue made the decree of Transubstantiation also And you say truth in that but it will not helpe you for Pope Innocent made them all but sacro approbante Concilio that is the whole Councell consisting of the Pope and the rest of the Prelats decreed them Nor haue you reason so to boggle at the word Transubstantiation or at this Councell for the word seeing the thing knew no beginning since our Sauiour as our Catholique bookes doe sufficiently proue and euen the word it selfe was in vse before this Councell as appeareth by Roger Houenden in Henrico 2. where he hath these words b Annul p. 576. Confessi sunt etiam quod Sacerdos noster bonus siue malus iustus vel iniustus corpus sanguinem Christi posset conficere perministerium huiusmodi Sacerdotis virtutem diuinorum verborum quae à Dominoprolata sunt panis vinum in corpus sanguinem Christi verè transubstantiantur Also by Blesensis who was king Henry the second his Chaplayne who saith c Blesens Ep. 140. Et vt gratia exempli in vno Sacramentorum vide as abyssum profundissimam humano sensui imperceptibilem pane vino transubstantiatis virtute verborum caelestium in corpus sanguinem Christi c. Both these wrote in the dayes of Henry the second and the Councell of Lat. was held in the dayes of king Iohn who raigned the second after him And in both these good English authors doe wee finde the word transubstantiated applyed to the bread wine chaÌ„ged into the body bloud of Christ nor doe wee finde in any story that these men were questioned for the vse of these words as if they did import any thing more in their sense than that which was the generall beliefe of that and the foregoing ages It is not therfore the Decree of transubstantiation made in this Councell afterwards which hath made such a noyse in the world as you say it hath but the heretiques and Schismatiques that haue opposed it Nor was this CouÌ„cell for this decrees sake called MaximuÌ„ omniuÌ„ generale celeberrimum but because it was summoned by the Pope froÌ„ all parts of the Christian world and there met together the greatest and most renowned assembly both of Clergy and Laity that euer was in the world which therfore it ill becomes you to deride In fine the three particular decrees you heere oppose but haue proued nothing against them are first inserted into the Decretalls which was done by Pope Gregory IX not many yeeres after the Councell was held who therein vsed the seruice of one of the best men of the world as I haue proued before Secondly they are put into the number of the Canons of this Councell by Crab who as I haue also proued tooke them out of the Originall Records Thirdly they are also reckoned amongst the rest of the Canons by all others that haue made edition of this Councell as Surius Binius and whosoeuer else Lastly they are receiued and allowed by the Catholique Church the strongest testimony of all others and doe you thinke to ouerthrow them who is sufficient for this he therfore that attempts it deserues the name of haereticorum maximus omnium generalis celeberrimus In the next place you inuade vs with an Arithmeticall argument but when I haue reckoned with you it will appeare that you are not a man of good account for thus you cast it C. But as it should seeme he that first composed it and stiled it so or afterwards set it forth and entituled it a Generall Councell had not his lesson perfect For betweene the seuenth and the eighth Generall Councell I trow there cannot another Generall Councell interueene as this notwithstanding is made to doe if it were so Great and so Generall as they say it is They count the second of Nice for the seuenth Generall which was held in the yeare 787. and the Councell of Florence held in the yeare 1449. for the eighth Generall as is there in the last session of it expressly set downe Finis octaui Concilii Generalis factus est 21. Iulii c. So that vnlesse they will make two eight generall Councells this of Lateran could be none ANSWER You passe from the matter of this Councell to disproue the title therof and say he that entituled it a generall Councell had not his lesson perfect and that because as you say they count the second of Nice for the seuenth generall Councell and the Councell of Florence for the eighth betweene thâ— seueÌ„th and the eighth there cannot another interueene as this is made to doe if it were so great and so generall as they say it is Truly if he that published this Councell had had his lesson no perfecter than he that made these obiections he deserued to be whipt for a trewant for neuer were there such idle obiections made I pray who are these they that account the Councell of FloreÌ„ce the eighth generall Councell your reader cannot but thinke you meane vs Roman Catholiques against whom you heere dispute and whom you would make to appeare so simple that they cannot tell eight But it is not the Roman account I trow that you heere follow but the schismaticall Grecian who yet will giue you no more thankes for it nor no more admitt you a member of their Church than will the Catholiques You must know thâ—n if you did not before that the eighth generall Councell was celebrated in Constantinople against Photius who made a schisme betweene the Latin and Greeke Church they of the schisme reiected this eighth and many other generall Councells which were celebrated in the west amoÌ„gst which this fourth of Lateran you so strongly and weakly fight against was one vntill the Grecians meeting againe with the Latins in the Councell of Florence the Grecians called that the eighth generall Councell which yet soone after they reiected and so at this day allow but seuen But if men may receiue and reiect Councells at their pleasure then you may with the Lutherans allow but six with the Eutychians which are yet in Asia but the first three with the Nestorians which are yet in the East but the first two with the Arrians and Trinitarians which are in Hungary and Poland none at all And this you and yours may doe with as good reason as they doe reiect and reuile this of Lateran and aboue all the sacred Oecumenicall Councell of Trent And