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A00333 Seven dialogues both pithie and profitable The 1 is of the right vse of things indifferent. 2 sheweth what comfort poperie affordeth in time of daunger. 3 is betweene a good woman and a shrew. 4 is of the conversion of a harlot. 5 is of putting forth children to nurse. 6 is of a popish pilgrimage. 7 is of a popish funerall. By W.B.; Colloquia. English. Selections Erasmus, Desiderius, d. 1536.; Burton, William, d. 1616. 1606 (1606) STC 10457; ESTC S121852 117,991 172

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growne into such a kinde of licentiousnesse as if there had béen no God at all Héereupon were ordained lawes as barres and ceremonies as railes precepts and threatnings as bridles that so men might repent But Why then doe not those barres and bridles remaine vnto this day Fish Because the rigor of that carnall seruitude was taken away after that by the Gospel we were adopted to be the sonnes of God when the grace of God did more abound those preceps were abrogated But Gods law is perpetuall And Christ saith he came not to breake the Law but to fulfill the Law How then durst they that came after to abrogate a good part of the Law Fish That Law was not giuen to the Gentiles and therefore it séemed good vnto the Apostles not to burthen them with circumcision which theIewes obserue vnto this day lest they should as the Iewes also doe place the hope of saluation in bodily obseruations rather then in faith and loue towards God But I omit the Gentiles By what scripture prooue you that the Iewes if they would imbrace the profession of the Gospel should bee frée from the bondage of Moses Law Fish Because the Prophets did fore-tell that God would make a new couenant with them and giue them a new heart and they bring in the Lord abhorring the festiuall daies of the Iewes refusing their sacrifices detesting their fasts reiecting their offerings and desiring a people of a circumcised heart The Lord himselfe confirmed their prophecies who giuing his body and his blood vnto his Disciples calleth it a new Testament Now if nothing were abolished of the old why is this called a new The choice of meates is abrogated both by Christs example as also by his word who saith That man is not defiled with that which goeth into the belly is cast out in the draught The same was shewed to Peter in a vision yea and Peter himselfe with Paul and the rest eateth common meates forbidden by the Law This matter is handled by Paul in all his Epistles and without doubt the Christian people to this day doe follow the same rule as deliuered them from the hands of the Apostles Therefore the Iewes are not onely fréed from the superstitious obseruation of the Law as it were from milke or food that they were familiarly vsed vnto but now they are driuen from it as a thing out of season Neither is the Law abrogated but onely some part of it is commanded to cease which now would be idle or in vaine which may be illustrated by some familiar similitudes in the course of Nature Gréene leaues and blossomes doe promise fruit to spring after them Now when the trée is loaden with fruit no man desires the blossomes neither is any man gréeued for the losse of his sonnes childhoode when his sonne is growne to mans estate No man careth for candles and torches when the Sunne is risen The tutor hath no cause to complaine if his scholler being of a ripe age doth challe●…ge his liberty and hath his tutor vnder his owne power or command A pledge is no longer a pledge when the things promised are exhibited The Bride before she be brought to the Bride-groome doth comfort herselfe with letters which he sent vnto her she kisseth the gifts that come from him and imbraceth his picture but when shée inioyeth the Bride-groome himselfe then she neglecteth those things which shee loued before But the Iewes at the first are hardly drawne from their old customes as a childe is hardly weaned from the breast Therefore they are almost by force driuen from those figures or shadowes or temporary comforts that they might wholly i●…brace him whome that ceremoniall lawe did promise and shadow But Who would euer haue expected so much diuinity to come from a Fish monger Truely you are worthy to sell salt-fish no longer but fresh fish But tell me one thing if you were a Iew as I am not sure whether you be or no and were in danger of death by reason of extreame famine woulde you die rather then you would eate any swines flesh Fish What I would do I know but what I should do I know not But. God hath forbidden both he hath said Thou shalte doe no murther and he hath saide Eate no swine flesh In such a case which commandement should giue place to other Fish First it is not e●…ident whether God forbade the eating of swines flesh with this mind that men should rather die than preserue life by eating of it For the Lord h●…mselfe excuseth Dauid that contrary to the lawe did eate the shew bread and when the Iewes were exiles in Babylon they omi●…ted many things which the law prescribed Therefore I should iudge the law of nature which is perpetuall and inuiolable to be preferred be●…ore that which neither was euer and was af er to be abrogated But. Why then are the brethren of the Macha●…ees commended for choosing to die rather a most cruell death than once to taste of Swines flesh Fish I thinke it was because that eating so commannded by that heathen king did comprehend vnder it a renouncing of the whole law of thei●… country euen as circūcision which the Iewes would enforce vpon the Gentiles contained the profession of their whole religion no otherwise then an ear●…est which serueth to bind men to the performance of the whole bargaine But. I●… then the grosser part of the law were rightly taken away when the light of the Gospel arose what is ●…he reason that the same or more grieuous then they are now commaunded againe and especially ●…eing as the Lord doth call his yoke an easie yoke And Peter in the Acts of the Apostles doth call the lawe of the Iewes a hard law which neither they nor their fathers were able for to beare Circumcision is taken away but baptisme is com in steade thereof I had almost saide of a harder condition Then the Infants were deferred vnto the eight day and if the childe chaunced to die in the meane time the parents desire of circumcision was imputed vnto them for circumcision We bring little children immediately from the mothers wombe and dippe them ouer head and eares in cold water which hath stoode perhappes long a putrifying in a stone font An●… if it chaunce to die the first day or to miscarry euen in th●…●…irth through no default of the friendes or parents they say in Popery that the poore miserable infant is damned in hell for euer Fish So they say indéede but I sée no reason for it for not the want of the sacrament but the contempt and neglect of the sacrament is dangerous but especially to the parents but other wise if children die before they can be lawfully baptized we must beléeue that they are saued by gods election and by vertue of the couenaunt which God hath made to the faithfull and to their séede of which couenant baptisme
a ship left at sea without a guide is tossed of the windes and the waues There were some that went arme in arme to hold by one another and yet so weake they were that they were stil downe and could hardly rise againe Many of them were crowned with oaken leaues A certaine Seignior amongst them playing the foster-father of Bacchus was carried like a packe vpon mens shoulders in that manner as men vse to carry a dead corps his féet vpward and his head downward with his face towards this porters legges lest hée should choke himselfe with vomiting if he had béene vpward he did pitteously bewray the hose and shooes of those porters that came behinde neither was any of the porters sober for the most part they did nothing but laugh but in such sort as any man might easily perceiue them to be besides their wits The fury of Bacchus had so possessed them all and with this shew they went through the City euen in the open day light If these men had but tasted an egge they should haue béene haled to prison as if they had killed their father whereas for loosing the sacred sermon for neglecting the publike worship of God for cōmitting so horrible intemperancy that vpon so holy a day in so publike a manner to the great offence of God and griefe of the godly no man punished thē no man was angry with them Fish Neuer maruaile much at that for in the middest of the City in Ale-houses that be next vnto the Church vpon Sabaoth daies and other holy daies you shall haue them tipling singing bawdy songs dancing quarrelling and fighting with so great noise and tumult that neither the sermon can be heard nor any holy businesse be performed without disturbance If the same persons should at the same time but mend a shooe or eate a pigge vpon a Friday they should bee seuerely punished for a most deadly sinne And yet the Lords day was chéefely ordained to this end that men might be at leasure to heare the doctrine of the Gospel and therefore are men then forbidden to worke bodily worke that they might be at leasure to informe their mindes with the wil of God Is not this strange peruersenesse of mens iudgements But. Uery strange Now in the fast it selfe which is prescribed in Poperie there be two things one is the abstaining from meate the other is the choise of meates Euery one knoweth the first to be according to Gods commaundement but the other is not onely humane but also contrary to the doctrine of the Apostle howsoeuer we would excuse the matter yet here also by a pr●…posterous iudgement it is lawfull for the people to suppe and it is no fault in them but to taste of meate forbidden by man and permitted by God his seruants the Apostles is a deadly sin counted What a heinous offence would men account it to receiue the holy sacrament of Christs bodie and blood with vnwashen hands and indeed it is a ●…ault but h●… 〈◊〉 little do they feare to receiue the same with anwashen hart and a minde defiled with peruerse and wicked lusts Fish Yea how many Priests are there which woulde rather die then minister the Sacrament in a Cuppe not yet consecrated by the Bishop or in such garments as they vsually weare euery day but amongst these that are so affected how many do we sée which are no whit afraide to come to the holy Table béeing as yet full and foule with the former nights surfetting gurmandizing and drunkennesse It is forbidden by humane constitution that no person that is base borne lame or poreblind shal be admitted to the holy Ministrie and here how strict are w●… And yet in the meane time we admit euerie where such as bée vnlearned gamsters drunkards souldiers cutters and ruffians They will say perhaps they know not the diseases of the minde but I speake not of secret defects I speake of such as are more open in the view of al men then the defects of the bodie be Againe there be great ones that make no bones as the saying is of oppressing the liberties and priuiledges of ecclesiasticall persons neither yet of ioyning vnto their own houses such houses as are part of the Churches inheritance and were giuen by the deuotion and liberalitie of godly and well disposed persons for the relieuing of such as are aged and sicke and poore néedy in the Parish And yet they séeme vnto themselues very great Christians if they can rage and play the mad men against such as omit a ceremonie leaue out a Collect or obserue not euerie holy day or holy day euen and the like Bu. Well let them go and leaue them to the Lord who will méete with such hypocrites well inough Let vs now talke of fish and flesh another while Fish With a good will Let vs returne then to our former speach of fasting and fish-eating I haue heard that the lawes of the church do expressely except children old folks sicke persons and weake great labourers women with child giuing sucke and very féeble But. And the same haue I also often heard Fish I haue also heard of an excellent Diuine Gerson I thinke his name is that hath added this that if there bée any cause of the like moment with those which the canons of the Church do except by name that then also the force of the law doth cease For there be peculiar habites of states of mens bodies which do make the restraint of meat more daungerous than an euident disease And there be secret diseases which yet do not appeare which in truth may bée so much the more dangerous And they which compel children or very old folkes or sicke and féeble persons either to taste or to eate fish doe commit a double sinne first against brotherly charitie Secondly against the mind and meaning of the Church which would not haue them wrapped in a law which cannot keepe it without their owne destruction or danger Whatsoeuer Christ did institute he instituted it to the health both of soule and bodie neither can any potentate chalenge vnto himselfe so great power as that by his constitutions he may driue any persons to endaunger their liues As if one by fasting one night should not be able to sleepe and for want of sleepe should be in danger of a frenzie he that shal driue a man to this inconuenience is both against the minde of the Church and against the will of God a murtherer of his neighbor Princes so often as they sée cause do make lawes to punish men by death what they may do I do not define this I thinke I may say that they should deale more safely if they did not punish any by death but for such causes as are expressed in the holy scriptures In heynous crimes the Lord doth call men away from the vttermost bond of circumstance that may leade thereunto as in the case of