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A13748 The examinacion of Master William Thorpe preste accused of heresye before Thomas Arundell, Archebishop of Ca[n]terbury, the yere of ower Lord .MCCCC. and seuen. The examinacion of the honorable knight syr Jhon Oldcastell Lorde Cobham, burnt bi the said Archebisshop, in the fyrste yere of Kynge Henry the Fyfth. Thorpe, William, d. 1407?; Tyndale, William, attributed name.; Constantine, George, ca. 1501-1559, attributed name.; Oldcastle, John, Sir, d. 1417. Examinacion of the honorable knight syr Jhon Oldcastell. aut 1530 (1530) STC 24045; ESTC S104932 68,800 141

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pharisies deuided deuided in habite so ye make diuisīon amōge the people And thus thes friers mōkes with soch other be the mēbres of the neste of antichrist And he said Christe saith Wo be to you scribes pharifies ypocrites for ye close vp the kingdome of heuē before mē for sothe ye enter not your self nor ye will nat suffer them that wold to enter in thus ye be the disciples of Antichrist For ye will not suffer gods lawe to go thorowe nor to be taucht preched of good priestes whiche will speke ageinst your sinnes repreue thē but of soch that bē flaterers whiche susteyne you in your synnes cursednes Thā said the archebishop By our lady sir there shall no soche preache that preacheth dissensyon diuision if god will Thā said the lorde of Cobham to the archebishop Christ saith that ther shall be so greate tribulaciō as neuer was syns the begīnīg And this shal be in your dayes by you for ye haue slayne many mē mo shall hereafter but Christ s●ith excepte that those dayes were shortened no flesch sholde be saued but hastly god will short your dayes Forthermore bishops priestes dyacons ben grounded in goddes lawe but not thes other religions as ferre as I can wete Thā a doctour of lawe one master Ihon kempe put to hī thes foure poyntes that folowe The faith the determinaciō of holy chirch touching the blessed sacrament of the altare is this that after the sacramentall wordes ben said of a priest in his masse the materiall breade that was before is torned into Christes body the materiall wyne that was before is torned in to Christes very blode so there remayneth in the sacrament of the altare no materiall breade nor materiall wyne the whiche wer there before the sayng of the sacramētall wordes Sir beleue ye not thys The lorde of Cobhā said This is not my beleue For my beleue is as I saide to you before that the worshipfull sacrament of the altare is very chhristes body in fourme of breade Than said the archebishoppe Sir Ihon ye must say otherwise The lorde of Cobham said Nay yf god will but that it is christes body in fourme of breade as all the comon beleue is The doctour said The seconde is this that holy chirche hath determined that euery christē man lyuyng bodely vpon erth oweth to be shriuē to a prieste ordened by the chirche if he maye come to him Sir what say ye to this The lorde answered and said A seake man and sore wounded hadde nede to haue a sure leche and a trewe knowing his cure and therfore a man sholde principally be shreuen to god and els his confession is noucht And a mā sholde rather go be counsellid with a good prieste that knowith goddis lawe and liueth thereafter than with his owne prieste if he wer an euyl man or with ony other soche The doctour said The thirde is this Christe ordenyd seynt Peter apostle to be his vicare ī erthe whose see is the chirche of Rome ordenyng and graunting that the same power that be gaue to peter sholde succede to all Peters successours the which we call now the popis of Rome by whose power in the chirche particulerly and specially ben ordenyd prelates as Archebisshopis Bisshopes other degrees to whome christen men owe to obeye after the lawe of the chirche of Rome This is the determinacion of the chirche To this he answered and said Who that foloweth next Peter in liuyng is next hym in succession but your liuyng refuseth poore peters liuyng ād many other popes that wer martirs in Rome that folowed peter in maner of liuyng whos condicions ye haue clene forsakyn all the worlde may knowe it well The doctour said The fourth pointe is this Holy chirche hathe determined that it is medefull to a christen man to go on pilgrimages to holy places and there specially to worship holy reliques of seyntes apostles martirs confessours and all seyntes approuyd by the chirche of Rome To this he said Yt wer ynough to bury saintes fayre in the erthe but now sayntes that be deade ben compellid to begge for couetousnes the which in their lyfe hated couetousnes and begging but I say to you all and knowe it for a treuthe that with your shrynes and ydoles your feyned absolucions and indulgencis and your tēporaltes ye drawe to you all the richesse of this worlde Why sir said one of the clerkis will ye not worship ymagis What worship saide the lorde Thā said frier Palmer Sir ye will worship the crosse of Christe that he died on Where is it said the lorde The frier said I put case sir that it wer here before you The lorde said This is a redy man to put to me a question of a thing that they wote neuer where it is And yet I aske you what worship A clerke said Soche worship as Paul spekith of that is this God forbid me to ioye but in the crosse of our lorde Iesu Christe Than said the lorde and spred his armes abrode This is a very crosse Than said the bisshop of London Sir ye wote well that he died on a materiall crosse Than said the lorde Our saluacion cam in onely by hym that died on the crosse and by the materiall crosse And well I wote that this was the crosse that Paul ioyed on that is in the passion of our lord Iesu Christe The Archebisshop said Sir Iohn̄ ye muste submit you to the ordinaunce of the chirche The lorde said I wote not wherto Than the Archebisshop redde a bill of his iugement and conuicted hym for an heretike After the reding of the bill the lorde said Though ye iudge my body I hope to god that he will saue my soule and he said that he wold stande to the death by these thinges before said With the helpe of Iesu And than he said to all the people Sirs for goddis loue be well ware of thes men for they will begile you els and lede you blyndelinges in to hell and themself also For Christe saith if one blynde man lede a nother bothe fall in to the ditche And after this thus he praied for his enemies and said Lorde god I beseche the forgyue my persewe●s if it be thy will And than he was ledde a geyne to the towre of London and thus was the ende WHile the lorde of Cobham was in the towre he sent out priuely to his frendis and they at his desyre enfourmyd and writ this bill that folowith next commending it to the people that they sholde cease the sclaūders leasynges that his enemies made on hym FOr as mekill as sir Iohn̄ Old castell knyght and lorde of Cobham is vntreuly conuicted and prysoned and falsly reported and sclaundered among the people by his aduersaries that he sholde other wyse feale speke of the sacramentis of holy chirche ād specially of the blessed sacrament of the altare than was written in his beleue which was indented takyn to the clergie ād set vp in diuerse opyn placis in the cite of London Knowen be it to all the worlde that he neuer varied in ony poynte there fro but this is playnly his beleue that all the sacramentes of holy chirche ben profitable and medefull to all thē that shall be sauyd takyng them after the entent that god and holy chirche hath ordenyd Ferther more he beleuith that the blessed sacrament of the altare is verely and treuly Christes body in fourme of breade Trewth long hyd now ys dysclosed Praysed be god Amen
other thing that a man dothe it is vnthankefull to the holy goste and therfore saithe Lincoln That prieste that preachith not the worde of god though he be siene to haue none other defaute he is Antichriste and Sathanas a night thefe and a day thefe a slear of soules and an angell of light toornid in to derkenesse Wherfore syr thes authorites and other well considerid I deme my self dāpnable if Iother for pleasure or displeasure of ony creature applye me not diligētly to preache the worde of god And in the same dampnaciō I deme all those priestis which of goode purpose and will enforse them not besily to doo thus and also all them that haue purpose or will to lett ony prieste of this besinesse And the Archebisshop said to those thre clerkis that stoode before hym Lo syrs this is the maner and besinesse of this losell ād soche other to pike out soche sharpe sentencis of holy scripture and of doctoris to mainteine their secte and lore ageinste the ordinaunce of holy chirche And therefore losell it is that thou couetist to haue ageyn the psalter that I made to betakyn from that at Cāturbery to recorde sharpe versys a geīst vs. But thou shalt neuer haue that psalter nor none other boke tyll that I know that thy harte and thy mouthe accorde fully to be gouernid by holy chirche And I said Syr all my will and power is and euer shall be I truste to god to be gouernyd by holy chirche And the Archebisshop askid me what was holy chirche And I said syr I tolde you before what was holy chirche but syns ye aske me this demaunde I call Christe and his seyntis holy chirche And the Archebisshop said vnto me I wote well that Christe and his seyntis ar holy chirche in heuene but what is holy chirche in erthe And I said Syr though holy chirche be euery one ī charite yet it hathe two partis The firste and principall parte hath ouer comen perfitely all the wretchednesse of this lyfe and reigneth ioyfully in heuene with Christe And the tother parte is here yet in erthe besily and continually fighting day and night ageinst temptacions of the fende forsakyng and hatyng the prosperite of this worlde despising and withstonding their flesschely lustis which onely ar the pilgrimes of Christe wandering toward heuene by stedfast feithe and groundid hope and by perfite charite For thes heuenly pilgremis may not nor will not be lettid of their goode purpos by the reason of eny doctours discording fro holy scripture nor by the fluddis of any tribulaciō temporall nor by the winde of any pride of boste or of manasing of ony creature for they ar all faste grounded vpon the suer stone Ch●iste hearing his worde and louing it exercising thē feithfully and continually in all their wittes to doo there after And the Archebisshop said to his clerkis Se ye not how his harte is endured how he is traueled with the deuill occupiyng hym thus besely to allege soche sentencis to mainteyne hys errours and heresies Certeyn thus he wold occupie vs here all daye if we wold suffer hym One of the clerkes answered Syr he said right now that this Certificacion that came to you fro shrewisbery is vntrewly forged ageinst hym Therfore Syr appose you hym now here in all the poītis which ar certified ageinst hym and so we shall heare of his owne mouthe his answers and witnesse them And the Archebisshop tooke the certificaciō in his honde and looked theron a while than he said to me Lo here it is certified ageinst the by worthy men and feithfull of Shrewisbery that thou preachedst there openly in seynt Chaddis chirche that the Sacramēt of the altare was materiall brede after the consecracion What saist thou Was this trewly preached And I said Sir I tell you trewly that I touchid nothing there of the Sacrament of the altare but in this wyse as I will with goddis grace tell you here As I stoode ther in the Pulpet besiyng me to teache the commaundement of god ther knylled a sacring bell ād therfore mekill people toornid awaye hastely with great noyse ran fro towardis me And I seyng this said to them thus Goode men ye wer better to stand here still to heare goddis worde For certis the vertue the mede of the moste holy Sacrament of the altare standith mekill more in the beleue thereof that ye ought to haue in your soule thā it dothe in the outward sighte thereof And therfor ye were better to stande still quietely to heare goddis worde because the thorow the hearing the rof men come to very trewe belefe And other wyse syr I am certein I spake not there of the woorthy Sacrament of the altare And the Archebisshop said to me I beleue the not what so euer thou saist syns so worshipfull men haue witnessed thus ageinst the. But syns thou denyest that thou saidist thus there what saist thou now Restith there after the consecracion in the ofte materiall brede or no And I said Sir I knowe in no place in holy scripture where this terme materiall brede is writen and therfore Sir when I speake of this matter I vse not to speake of materiall brede Than the Archebisshop said to me How teachest thou men to beleue in this sacrament And I said Sir as I beleue myself so I teache other men He said tell out pleinly thy beleue hereof And I said with my protestaciō Sir I beleue that the nyght before that Christe Iesu wold suffer wilfully passion for man kynde on the morne after he toke breade in his holy and moste worshipfull handis lifting vp his eyes ād gyuyng thankis to god his father blessed this breade and brake it and gaue it to his disciples saiyng to them Take and eate of this all you This is my body And that this is ād ought to be all mennis belefe Mathew Marke Luke and Paul witnessith Other beleue sir haue I none nor will haue nor teache for I beleue that this sufficeth in this matter For in this beleue with goddis grace I purpose to lyue and dye knoleging as I beleue and teache other men to beleue that the worshipfull sacramēt of the altare ys the sacramente of Christis flesche ād his bloode in fourme of breade and of wine And the Archebisshop said to me It is sothe that this Sacrament is very Christis body infourme of breade But thou and thy secrete chist it to be substaūce of brede Thynke you this true teachinge And I said Nother I nor ony other of the secte that ye dampne teache ony other wyse thā I haue tolde you nor beleue other wise to my knowynge Neuerthelesse syr I aske of you for charyte that ye will tell me here pleynly how ye shall vnderstonde this text of saynt Paule wher he sayth thus This thinge feale you in youre selfe that is in Christe iesu while he was in the fourme of god
which processe wer now to long to reherse Than I proffered to haue assoiled you for ye wer acursed of your contumacy and disobediēce to holy chirche Than said the lorde Cobham forthe with God saith Maledicā benedictionibus vestris that is to say I shall curse your blessinges Than said the Archebisshop Sir than I peroffered to haue assoiled you if ye wold haue asked it and yet I doo the same Than said the lorde of Cobham Nay forso the I trespased neuer ageinst you and therfore will I not doo it And with that he kneled downe on the pauement and helde vp his handis said I shryue me to god and to you all sirs that in my youthe I haue synnyd greatly and greuously in lecherie and in pride and hurte many men done many other horrible synnes good lord I crie the mercie And therwith wepingly he stoode vp ageyn and said Here for the brekyng of goddis lawe and his commaundementis ye cursed me not But for your owne lawes and tradiciōs aboue goddis law ād therfore it shall be destroied Than the Archebisshop examined the lorde of his beleue And the lorde of Cobhā said I beleue fully in all goddis law I beleue that it is all trewe and I beleue all that god will that I beleue Than the Archebisshop examined hym of the sacramente of the altare how he beleuyd therein The lorde of Cobhā said Christe vpon shere thursday at nyght sitting with his disciples at the supper after that he hadde supped he tooke breade geuyng thankis to the fader he blessed it and brake it gaue it to his disciples saiyng take eate ye of this all this is my body that shall be betraied for you doo you this in the remembraunce of me This beleue I said he Than the Archebisshop asked hym if it wer breade after the consecracion and the sacramētall wordes said The lorde of Cobham said I beleue that the sacrament of the altare is very Christes body in fourme of breade the same body the was borne of the virgin Mary done on the crosse dede and buried and the thirde day rose fro dethe to lyfe which body is now glorified in heuen Thā said one of the doctours of law After the sacramētall wordes said ther remaineth no brede but the body of Christe Than the lorde of Cobham said to one Master Iohn̄ whitehede You said to me in the castell of Cowling that the ooste sacred was not Christes body But I said yt was Christes body though seculers friers holde eche one agenst other in this opinion Than said they We say all that it is goddis body And they askyd hym whether it wer materiall breade after the consecracion Than said the lorde I beleue that it is Christes body in fourme of breade Sir beleue ye not thus And the Archcbisshop said Ye Than the doctours askyd hym whether it wer onely Christes body after the consecracion and no breade And he said to them Yt is Christes body breade for right as Christe was here in māhode and the godhede hidde in the manhode so I beleue verely that Christes flesche and his blode is hidde there in the fourme of breade Than they smylde eche one on other demyng hym takyn in heresy and said it is an heresy The Archebisshop asked hym what breade it was and the clerkis also whether it wer materiall or not Than the lorde said the gospell spekith not of this terme materiall ād therfore I will not but I say it is Christes body and breade For the gospell saith Ego sum panis viuus qui de celo descendi th̄at is to say I am quicke breade that came downe frome heuen For as oure lorde Iesu Christe is very god and very man so the most blessed sacrament of the altare is Christes body and breade Than thei said it is an heresy to say that it is brede after the consecracion the sacramentall wordes said but onely Christes body The lorde said Seynt Paul the apostle was as wise as ye bē he called it breade wher he saith thus The breade that we breake is it not the partetaking of the body of the lorde Than they saide Paule muste be other wyse vnderstanded for it is an heresy to say that it is breade after the consecracion but onely christes body for it is ageynst the determinacion of the chirche Than they asked hī whether he beleued not in the determinacion of the churche And he said to thē No forsothe but I beleue all goddes lawe and all that god will that I beleue but not in youre lawe nor in youre determinacion for ye be no parte of holy churche as openly your dedis shewe but very Antichristes contrary to gods law For ye haue made lawes for youre couetousnes This they said was heresy not for to beleue in the determinacion of the chirche Than the Archebishop asked him what was holy churche He said I beleue that holy chirch is the number of all thē that shall be saued of whom Christ is hed of that which chirch one parte is in heuē an other in purgatorye the thirde here in erthe This parte here standeth in thre degrees estates priestehode knighthode and the comunalte as I sayde playnly in my beleue Than the arbtshop said to hī Wote you who is of this chirche it is doute to you who is thereof ye sholde not iudge The lorde said Operibus credite iustū iudiciū iudicate that is to say Beleue ye the workes iudge ye rightfull iugement And also he saide to them all Where fynde ye by gods lawe that ye sholde sit thus vpon any man or ony mannis death as ye do but Anna Cayphas sat iudged Christe and so do you Thā said they Yes sir Christ iudged Iudas The lord of Cobham said No. Christ iudged not Iudas but he iudged himself went hāged himself but Christe saide Wo to him as he dothe to many of you For syns the venyme was shed in to the chirche ye folowed neuer Christ nor ye stode neuer in perfection of goddes lawe Than the Archebishop asked him what was that venyme The lorde said The lordshippes and possessyons For than cried an angell wo wo wo this day is venyme shed into the chirch of god for before that tyme ther wer many martirs of popis and syns I cā tell of none but sothe it is syns that tyme one hath put downe a nother one hath slayne a nother ād one hath cursed a nother as the cronicles tell also of moch more cursednesse Also he said Christ was meke the pope is proude Christ was pore forgaue the pope is riche a māslear as it is opēly proued And thus this is the neste of Antichriste out of this neste cometh Antichristes disciples of whome these monkes friers ben the taile Thā said the priour of the frier Austines Sir why saye ye so And the lorde of Cobham said for as ye bē