they should be accepted from such a judgement To which I answer Do you know any thing against the particular infant of an heathen if this be a reason upon which we are to judge any infants in particular to have faith because we know nothing againstany particular t is a reason upon which we are in charity to judge all particular infants in the world to have faith as well as any yea the infants of infidels as well as Christians for who knoweth any thing more against the infant of an infidell in his infanny whereby he should be excepted from our charitable opinion of him then he knows against the infant of a Christian especially that I may to your confutation conclude against you in your own words p. 5. 6. since it cannot appear that one of these more then the other hath by any â—…ctual sin barred himself and deserved to be exempted from the general staâ—…e of little infants declared in the Scripture viz. that the kingdom of heaven belongs to them So having run through and repelled that rout of responsives that would not be ruled by reason I come now to enter skirmish with your Scare-crow for verily what follows is no other then a false Alarum a sound of words a number of Iackeâ—…s and Breeches stuft with stubble and bombasted into the shape of men in arms to fright fools at a distance Review We shall only present to the Christian Reader those horrid sins this wretched error of the Anabaptists involves men in and so for bear to be further troublesome it may be the sight will make many tremble and forsake their tents and not suffer them to be so frolick about the hâ—…le of the Asp or play with the Leviathan and walk upon the ridge of thosâ—… Alps whose Praecipice is so fearfull Re-Review Bona verba quaeso and not thunder without lightning Review 1. It makes them deny their first â—…aith with their baptism for there is but one faith saith the Apostle and one baptism Eph. 4. 5 Re-review Aliâs it makes them first confesse and visibly professe that one faith and own that one baptism which what ever they did in words in works they denyed till now and makes them renounce that none faith and none baptism which they had in infancy for if they had faith while they were infants how can they deny it in your opinion who deny any falling from faith but if they had none in infancy then how can you deny but that they had none and so they deny none at all Review 2. It makes them crucify Christ again for we are baptized inâ—…o Christs death and therefore but once because Christ dyed but once Re-review It makes them crucify Christ often ore and ore again indeed i. e. in the Supper where in a figure they break his body and shed his blood an orderly fellowship and communion in which service they are ingaged to and enter upon after the example of those Acts 2. 42. immediately after baptism Other crucifying Christ I know none among them that is caused by their doctrine but that of those who after they are inlightned in it and have tasted the good word of God c. do after that fall away again and such indeed crucify to themselves the sonne of God a fresh and put him to open shame Heb. 6. 4. but I hope the truth among none but Reâ—…nlesse persons shall bear the blame and be made the cause of their crucifyings of Christ who depart from it as for us we are crucifyed dead and buried with Christ by baptism Rom. 6. for we are baptized into his death and that but once because Christ dyed but oâ—…ce and yet once because Christ dyed once and that is more then any Rantized Priest in Châ—…istendome can say of himself for he is not so much as once baptized at all Review 3. It makes them count the blood of the Covenant an unholy thing for if it be holy what need they repeat it if unholy how do they prophane it Re-review How far forth Anabaptism properly so called i. e the repetition of baptism without such warrantable ground as it was repeated upon Act. 19. 5. doth saving the nonsense that is in that expression repeat the bloud of the Covenant and so count it an unholy thing I am not so much a friend to it as to gain say but sure I am that A-no-baptism and such yours is doth count not only the bloud of the Covenant but also that holy ordinance of baptizing believers which is the token of it an unholy thing for if it be holy why do you neglect it if unholy in so saying oh how do you prophane it Review 4. It makes the Covenant of the Gospel worse then the lâ—…gal this taking in all Children into the visible Church the Anabaptists excluding them making them no better than Turks and Pagans Re-review What again Review 5. It destroyes all the comforts that afflicted parents can have over their deceased children the grounds of them being destroyed their right in the covenant and promises of Christ. Re-review What again Review 6. It unchristens the whole Church of God for many hundreds of years together and calls in question the truth of Christs promises of being present with his Church to the end and guiding it by his spirit into all truth Re-review What again what ore ore and oreagain are you drawn so dry that you are fain to fill up to swell up your Review into the magnitude of a sheet with old ends and pieces and patches of things that were precedent or did these three Renegadoes fearing a storm run from their old ranks hither to secure themselves by câ—…ouding in amongst the rest of this rubbish stuff for every one of them have faced us once or twice a piece before page 6. 7. 12. 13. neverthelesse sith I meet with them here again I le have a word or two with every of them now To the first I say thus if the legal covenant did take in all children into the visible Church as you say as indeed it did i. e. as well the children of unbelieving as of believing Jewes neither had the one of these a strawes more right to circumcision then the other then sith the Covenant of the Gospel is inlarged and communicated to both Jewes and gentiles between whom the partition wall is broken down and they both made one And sith now by the Priests own confession it stands in the same way to be administred among the Jewes and Gentiles as that legal Covenant did for a time among the Jewes only the Priest himself makes the covenant of the Gospel worse then the legal that taking in at least to the visible Church all children of that people to whom it extended i. e. the Jewes without any exception without any respect to the parents being godly or ungodly believers or unbelievers the priests contrariwise under the Gospel Covenant which extends and belongs to the whole world i.
to our consciences to be what you here assert him to be viz. the Patron of Paedo-baptism but this from Mar. 10. nor act 2. nor 1. Cor. 10. nor from any other portion of his Testament nor from his patronizing Paedo-circumcision you cannot much less can you of Paedo-rantism which is your way and then we are so sensible of our future appearance before his Iudgement Seat and have gain'd so much self denial for his sake since we practised Pisto-baptism that we shall as readily lay it down I hope as we took it up Report Afâ—…er the Ministers were retired diverse Gentlemen and others who had beâ—…n present at the Disputation thanked the Ministers expressed tâ—…e satisfaction they had received assuring them that many were confirmed by their means and the resolution of the Ministers who were Auditors was that they would faithfully in their several congregations declare their sence of it and oppose the growth of Anâ—…baptism in their respective flocks Reply Here followes the Story of what event and success your meeting had among your selves and you great friends after you were hous'd of its powerfull influence upon you Ministers and your Maecenasses when you met together at your Randezvous which was on this wise you had their gratulatorie expressions of their own satisfactions and assurances of many ones confirmation by your means and this reciprocally raised you Ministers into joint incouragements ingagements and resolutions to declare your sense of this happy efficacy and acceptation your indeavors had among them and to stickle more stifly then ever against Anabaptism in your respective flocks where you usually winne all because you plaie with none there but your selves and that you do with such eaâ—…nestness and zeal that for fear men should come to Anabaptism i.e. a second Baptism you stave them off at a distance and what in you lies forbid them to own a first thus while they doted on your Doo-little Disputation and plaistered it ore with their applause you in requital agreed to new White-lime and daub ore their Babylonish Idol babysprâ—…ling with â—…our untempered Morter Sirs I half wonder at one rhing for which whether more happâ—…ly or unhappily it befalls you I wot not yet I however rather more pitty then envy you viz. that who ere carries the thing yet you still carry the thank and who e're is at loss in your holy warres against us Hereticks yet your selves take upon you still to be Triumphant you give the satisfaâ—…tions the confirmations for which you have gratulations from the great ones as if the good issue of things did run only and alway on your side I find it so in all verball Accounts and also in those printed Accounts that are extant of your doings and disputations with them of this way called Anabaptism viz. Dr Featly's Account of his Disputation with them in South-wark and this of your own also with us at Ashford and another of Mr Baxters with M â— Tombes at Bewdley pend all as is supposed by the Opponents themselves who whip them if they have not more wit and less grace then to disgrace themselves too much whilst they continue Clergy-men And now I name Dr. Featly the man whom in the next page you turn us over to for more furniture in this point I cannot but note by the way how finely you Featlisie throughout your whole Account as well as here as if there were a certain Transmigration of Dr. Featly's spirit into that person that was the inditer of your Account for as most of the Arguments are found in not to say fetcht and filcht out of Featly's fardell so how many things in yours are after the very Image of his Account as if one had been the plat-form of the other Dr. Featly pens and prints forth his disputation under the title of a True Relation of what passed and how properly I appeal to all men so do you Dr. Featly saies it was the clamors of the Adversaries awakn'd his or else it had slept securely by him in a whole skin so say you the disgraces the Adversaries loaded your disputation with rakâ—… it out of those ashes in which else it was designed to be smothred Dr. Featly be-Asses us Anabaptists and so do you both us and your selves too as is shew'd above Dr. Featly makes as if none of that sect ever troubl'd him any more after that so ye that after your handling of the enquirer none did propound any more questions as if you had stopt the mouths of all Dr. Featly relates that the dippers were dipt and plung'd ore head and ears in disputation with him so you that your Respondent was extremely foundred answer'd nothing in the least measure satisfactory or that carried any shew of sense or reason to the purpose Dr. Featly relates the issue of his as to himself to be great thanks so ye how you were thank'd and as you from diversGentlemen so he from the Knights Ladies and Gentlemen of which rank few stoop so low as to the plainness of the Gospel but neither of you from the poor of this World that are rich in faith and heirs of that Kingdome which God hath promised to them that love him into which few Knights Ladies and Gentlemen except more of them repent believe and obey the Gospel then mostly do shall ever enter thus you flaunt it over the little flock over this sect which is every where spoken against as baffled non plust worsted by you still but Sirs we can give loosers leave to talk you tell of gratulations satisfactions confirmations of people in your wayes by your means but how comes it to pass that there are so many Churches the true Church i. e. those you call Anabaptists may say in her heart after her long widow-hood as Isa. 49. 21. who hath begotten me these seeing I have lost my children and who hath brought up these behold I was left alone these where have they been thy people crumble from thee apace O P P Priest for all thy satisfactions and are captivated some more to Christ and some more to the Devill then ever before while they served thee thy Divinity O Divine is as the blood of a dead man it hath no life in 't thy Common stock and store of Religion thou hast treasur'd up to thy self out of this Author and that out of Harmonies of Confessions Councels c. grows stale and begins to stink before the Scriptures in a word gray-hairs are here and there upon thee and thou knowst it not Report And this opposition of Anabaptism hath been since done say you accordingly Reply And 't were enough to make a man think though I say it not that ' â—…was done even immediately considering what a Tom-boyes trick was serv'd us so soon after whilst we were preaching besides the steeple upon a Tombstone which that it grieve you not know Christ preacht in a ship on the shore on a mountain in the Synagogues in houses even any where where people
examine himself and so let him eat because there 's that required in order to eating there viz. self examination discerning the Lords body and blood which infants cannot do Baptist. T is very true they are excepted from all these as you say implicitly and in effect though not expressely but then let it be considered is there not as fair and as clear an exception of them from baptism as from any of these or in particular as from that service of the supper in as much as theres that required in order to baptisme which infants can no more do then they can do what 's required to the supper viz. to believe with all the heart Act. 8. 37. and to be discipled i e to be taught and to learn the Gospel Mat. 28. 19. If any should ask this question what hinders why I may not eat the supper you would answer thus if thou examinest they self thou maiest eat of that bread and drink of that cup so when the Eunuch enquired of Philip what hinders why I may not be baptized he answers him in the very same viz. if thou believest with all thy heart thou maiest for whoever shall say these answers viz. let a man examine himself and so he may eat let a man believe with all his heart so he may be baptized or if thou examinest thy self thou mayest eat or if thou believest with all thy heart thou maiest be baptized are not the self same in sense and signifification shall never go for a wise man more with me and whoever shall say that the phrase of Philip to the Eunuchs question what hinders why I may not viz. if â—…hou believest with all thy heart thou mayest be baitized is as not exceptive of infants from baptism as that phrase of Paul let a man examine himself and so let him eat is exceptive of infants from the supper can seem no other to me then one whose reason is basely captivated to some carnal interest or other yea the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 8. 37. doth ful as much if not more imply an unlawfulnesse of their admission to baptism that believe not with all the heart as the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Cor. 11. 28. doth imply an unlawfulnesse of their admission to the supper who do not first examine themselves what ever exception therefore ye can find in the word of infants from the supper the self same will I find of infants from baptism and what eâ—…er ground of admission to baptism you shall find there for them the same will I bring for their admission to the supper Babist Those places where it s said if thou believest thou mayest he that believeth and is baptized repent and be baptized go teach and baptize imply onely an unlawfulness of baptizing persons at years without instruction belief and repentance and are phrases that relate to such onely and not to infants who may notwithstanding any thing to the contrary there exhibited be baptized without any of these Baptist. So you use to say still indeed of these Scriptures that they speak of persons at age and not in non-age and so say I too but I wonder then where are the Scriptures that speak of infants baptism if all the places of Scripture that speak of baptism at all speak onely of the baptism of adult ones and so you are fain to confesse they do when we come to examine them one after another yea I remember that at two publique disputes when we have put you to assign what Scripture infant baptism is commanded in Mat. 28. 19. hath bin nominated as your warrant out of which when it hath been plainly proved that Christ commands no more in that place to be baptized then such whom he commands also first to be instructed reply hath been made to this purpose viz. that Christ there requires that such as are capable of instruction should be instructed first but that hinders not why infants may not be baptized before instruction but if so I say I wonder still where that place is that warrants it that infants may be baptized at all siâ—…h you are fain to confesse that that phrase go teach and baptize yea even you your selves sometimes who just before assigned it as the warrant for infant baptism that it speaks onely of persons capable to be taught and not of infants As you say therefore that these places speak of the baptism of men and women onely that are capable to learn believe and repent and not exclusivly of infants because they are not capable to do those things who yet may be bapâ—…ized for all that so I say of these words let a man examine himself and so let him eat they imply an unlawfulnesse in men and women only to eat the supper without self-examination but not in infants who being not capable to examine themselves may any thing to the contrary there notwithstanding be admitted to the supper without it t is men and women onely and not children who upon non-examination of themselves are excepted As you argue therefore that every administration to an Nation includes infants as well as men unlesse the be excepted and therefore they must be baptized I conclude the same from those premises concerning their right to other ordinances viz. therefore they must be preacht to therefore they must eat the supper two administrations given to all nations from which infants are no more excepted then from baptism As therefore you take it for an implicit exception of infants from the supper in that they cannot perform what is required in that place to the receiving of it i. e. not examine themselves nor discern the Lords body though by name they are not excepted so if you be not partial your own consciences will compel you to take it for at least as implicit an exception of infants from baptism in that they are no way capable to perform those things which are required of persons in order to their admission to baptism in other places viz. nor to believe with all tbe heart nor to confesse â—…in nor amend their lives nor repent nor call on the name of the Lord all which were required of adult ones that come to baptism as we see Mat. 3. Act. 2. Act. 8. Act. 22. and also in the Rubrick where it being askt what is required of persons to be baptized answer is made thus viz. repentance whereby they forsake sin and faith whereby they stedfastly believe the promises of God made to them in that sacrament though by name they be not excepted in any of these places Your cui signatum ei signum nisi obstet c. your thredbare Argument viz. to whom the thing signified belongs to them the sign unlesse there be some impediment or in capacity to perform what is required in order to the receiving of the sign if it had one farthing worth of force in it to give infants accesse to baptism would equally avail to give them accesse to the
not for the use and inâ—…ruction of infants in infancy in the way of life the Scriptures were given as a coppy of the testament and the will of God concerning men and women to declare to them what he requires of them and in what way he would have them to wait upon him in order to the attaining of that salvation he hath purchased by the blood of Christ and will freely confer on them for his sake viz. the way of faith repentance baptism supplication submission self-denial obedience both active and passive perseverance therein to the end and in a word attendance to the law of Christ the voice of that prophet that he hath now raised up in all things or else to have no part among his people from all which conditions and performances I say from every of them as well as any one of them from believing as well as obeying in baptism or any other part of his will or any other works of God under the Gospel among which belief is a chief one Iohn 6. 28. 29. little infants as being yet uncapable subjects to obey in any of these are universally exempred in their infancy otherwise I dare a vouch no dying infants in the world shall ever be saved for can they do any of these things in infancy so such as are to be baptized are called to do Act. 22. 16. and who ever so doth shall be saved and whoever doth not shall perish Ier. 10. 25 if the way wherein men are to be saved must be walkt in by all infants too in order to their salvation then wo to all infants that die in non-age for alas how shall infants call on him in whom they have not believed and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not yet heard and how shall they hear without a Preacher and who can preach to them before they can understand Rom. 10. 14. 15. so then they cannot believe for faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God some way or other outwardly as well as inwardly 〈◊〉 Babist The spirit here speaks de subjecto capaci onely viz of the way how men come by faith and not of the way wherein infants have it and t is confest that faith in adultis in them that are capable to hear and understand is begotten by this means of hearing but not so in infants who cannot hear the spirit is not tyed to work by means in little infants to the bringing of them to the faith as â—…e doth in men but without the outward hearing of the word he works faith in little children Baptist. This same that you now say fits us very well to you ward again when you say justification comes by faith for we grant that adultis to them that are capable to act faith justification comes by faith nor shall they by any means obtain it who are capable to believe and yet believe not but not so to infants who cannot believe the spirit is not tied to work by means in little infants to the justification or bringing of them to salvation as he doth in men but by the righteousnesse of Christ imputed without obedience in baptism or faith either he saves them in nonage and farther that they cannot believe which is properly as I shewed before not onely to have but act faith in Christ your selves tell us saying they have not the use the second act the exercise the fruit of it and so do not believe and so must according to your sense of Scripture if the word speak of them be cast into the lake of fire Rev. 21. 8. but further grant they could have faith in both the habit and act of it also yet can they not obey Christ in other things which are required necessarily to salvation in the word of the Gospel at least concomitanter et consecutivè as well as faith it self they cannot hear Christs voice in all things they cannot confess Christ before men nor to be come in the flesh they have not crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts of it they cannot deny themselves and take up their cross and follow Christ nor hate father and mother and life for him nor keep his commandments nor abide in his Doctrine and many such like things all which the Gospel saies as universally whosoever doth not as well as whosoever believes not cannot be his disciple Mat. 18. Luke 14. Is not Christs Gal. 5. 24. hath not God 2 Iohn 9. is a lyâ—…r and shall not enter into the holy City 1 Iohn 2. 4. Rev. 21. 27. 22. 14. 15. is a deceiver and an Antichrist 2 Iohn 7. shall be denyed by Christ yea punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of Christ for non obedience to the Gospel 2 Thes. 1. 6. so that if the Scriptures speaking of the waies and means of salvation be to be understood as the terms and conditions on which dying infants shall be saved as well as men and without which they must be damned then all dying infants must perish contrary to your sense of Mat. 18. 14. who take the little ones there for infants for it s said there it is the will of my Father that not one of these little ones should perish put the case therefore that infants could believe yet their case would be little the better as to salvation so long as still they must be short of shewing their faith by other good works without which faith is not saving nor worth a straw for what would it profit if infants could go so far as to say they have faith and yet have not works can faith save them Iâ—…m 2. 14. 26. no its dead and helpless for as the body without the spirit is dead so faith without works is dead also Therefore the body of Scripture is to be understood as spoken concerning men and women and the means and way of their salvation and noâ—… of infants Babist Yea when the word speaks of works of holiness self denyal suffering mercy c. as the way to life which infants cannot do it excepts them from the doing thereof as no capable subject and not from the salvation nevertheless nâ—…r yet doth it except infants when it speaks of faith Baptist. Is not faith a work as well as repentance and the rest yea the main and principal work of the Law of Christ i. e. the Gospel Iohn 6. 28. 29. Secondly is it not as difficult a work for infants to believe in Christ as to obey Christs voice in other things and are they not still as uncapable a subject to do that as to do any more things that are required why then not exempted from that for the sake of their incapacity as well as from other things Thirdly if the spirit doth go extraordinary waies to work at all about the salvation of infants as you must confess he must and brings them to it without and besides the ordinary means he brings men by why will you tie and limit
head and all under for a time answerable to Christs three daies burial which cannot be without danger yea certainty of drowning 2. If it should be granted that a representation and resemblance of Christs death burial and resurrection is set before us in baptism and so of our death to sin and rising again to holinesse yet I demand why this may not as well be by infusion of water as dipping can you give me an example of so many killed and buried by immersion or dipping into the water as I can give of them that have been put to death and buried by infusion of water I am sure a whole world of men and other creatures those few that were in the Ark only excepted were buried in the universal deluge at once by infusion not by dipping so that infusion or sprinkling may as well clearly signifie death and burial as dipping and to the preservation of Noâ—…h and those that were with him in the Ark on which waters were poured from drowning the Apostle compares baptism as its Antitype Thus far Mr. Cook p. 16 17. And then again p. 19 20. 21. he undertakes further viz. to argue back again upon us at large and to prove that if there must needs be a resemblance and representation in baptism of the things that are signified therby then it may be as well nay must be rather by washing pouring sprinkling then by dipping and putting under the water sprinkling and infusion being as if not more agreeable to the nature and institution of baptism then dipping or immersion for as the word used i. e. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies washing so the thing represented sigâ—…yed and sealed saith he in the wonted implicit phrase in baptism is a washing 〈◊〉 Cor. 6. 11. ye are wasted c. the washing of Regeneration 2 Tit. 5. having your bodies washed with pure water Heb. 10. 22. t is a cleansing and purging 1 John 1. 7. blood of Christ clenseth us from all our sinnes Heb. 9. 14. blood of Christ shall purge your conscience which things viz. washing clonsing purging are done as well by infusion of water saith he as dipping and though it were granted saith he that in those hot countreys they commonly washt by going down into the water and being dipt therein that will no more inforce a necessity on us of observing the same in baptism now then the examples of Christ and the Apostles gesture in the supper ties us to the same which was leaning and partly lying but it may be objected saith he that sprinkling a little water doth not so fitly represent the washing of sins away as dipping or plunging sith here the whole body is washed there the face or head onely I answer first saith he the Scripture no where requires washing of the whole body in baptism Secondly with as good reason one may plead thus that t is most convenient that at the supper every communicant should receive his belly full of bread and wine and take as long as his stomack and head will hold to signifie the full refreshment of the soul with the body and blood of Christ but who would endure saith he such reasoning These outward elements of water bread and wine are for spiritual use and to signifie spiritual things so that if there be the truth of things the quantity is not to be respected further then is sufficient for its end namely to represent the spiritual grace and that it be neither so little as not clearly to represent it nor so much as to take off the heart from the spiritual to the corporal thing yea the spirituall grace and visible act of God upon the soul signified and represented by the outward act of baptism viz. The application of Christs blood and donation of the spirit is exprest in Scripture by the name of powring sprâ—…kling and that probably if not certainly with allusion to the administration of baptism Isa. 44. 3. Joel 2. 28. I will powre out my spirit upon all flesh Ezech. 36. 26. He spâ—…inkle clean water upon you and you shall be clean this clean water questionlesse is the blood and spirit of Christ represented in the water of baptism so in the new testamet Act. 2. Heb. 10. 22. 1 Pet. 1. 2. Heb. 9. 13. and 14. verses compared together and Heb. 12. 24. Now saith he let any one without prejudice consider these Scriptures whether at least some of them speak not in allusion to baptism and whether baptism be not a lively resemblance and representation of the things here spoken of and withall let him consider whether the thing exhibited in this sacrament be ever so fully set forth by dipping and then I leave him to iudge whether sprinkling be not as if not more agreeable to the nature of this sacrament as dipping or immersion In this manner Mr. Cook delivers his conceptions in his to A. R. we will onely see what his parallel saith who argues as Mr. Cook doth epitomizing as it were the labors of Mr. Cook unto his own turn against C. B. wee l first fully receive his charge also and then fully return what in right reason remaines to be returned to both If by baptism saith he we are planted into the likenesse of Christs death and also made partakes of his resurrection will it follow therefore that there must be some ceremony in the application of the water to resemble it if you may take this liberty of argument give me leave saith he to attempt the like and with as good reason to conclude that baptism must be no other then sprinkling that there may be proportion between it and that sprinkling of blood and water that did foreshadow it or baptism must be onely by powring of water there being a lively representation between that and pouring out of the holy spirit or that baptism must be by washing with water only there being a lively proportion between that and washing away of sins by Christs blood you see saith he what you will gain from these disputes from Analogy and proportion To this purpose Mr. Blake p. 6. as if he had stopt all our mouthes by this at once for ever yet I hope he shall see that he hath left us room enough yet to breath in and by which to breath out some reply Now to give the more plain quick cleer and condign check to these two palpable controulers not to say contramâ—…lers of the present piecious and apparent Truth reducing Mr. Blakes sharp and snap-short Syllogisticalls unto that long circumferaneous collation of Mr. Cook out of which for ouhgt I find he fetch it and in the answering of which Mr. Blake is answered as well as he I most earnestly intreat both those two and all other opposites to that one and onely true way of baptizing we plead for viz. of total dipping seriously to advise what is granted and denyed what is asserted and argued and by what weak Mediums and on what crazy grounds those things are that are
only signify but also resemble at least the main things that are signified of which sort baptism is without question one We must here thefore distinguish concerning signes among which some are natural which by nature signify the things whereof they are signs as smoak signifies that there is fire as we say there is no smoak but its a sign there is some fire a red and â—…ouring morning a sign of a foul day Others Praeter-natural and institutive which by institution signify the things whereof they are signes and this either by humane appointment as the Ivy-bush is a sign among men that wine is to be sold where it hangs or divine as the Rainbow is a sign by divine appointment to signify that the world shall never be wholly drowned again by water and these signes by divine institution are either such as are simpliciter signantia meerly and simply significative of the things they signifie without any Analogy or likenesse to them at all as the Rainbow which signifies but resembles not the worlds deliverance from drowning and the dew and drought that were by turnes on Gideons fleece which were signes to him of it but not resemblances of his victory and the shadowes going back upon the dial of Ahaz which was a sign to Hezekiah but not a resemblance of his recovery and such like Or else such as are sign 〈◊〉 similantia siâ—… having in them the signification and similitude of the things signified together and of this sort are all those signs which you commonly but not properly call seals also viz. the sacraments whether those of the old or those of the New Testament viz. Circumcision and the Passeover baptism and the Supper from the manner of the administration of the two first of which you use to argue to the manner of the administration of the two last which so far but no further then serves your turnes you say came in the room of the other for though by way of Analagy with Circumcision as comming in the room thereof you would have baptisme dispensed to infants yet neither Anallogically to males onely nor on the 8th day onely nor to male servants also nor yet by way of analogy with the passover which admitted of every circumcisied soul will you admit baptized infants to the supper which came by institution more truly and immediately in the room of the Passeover even when it was moriturum if not plane mortuum for it was no more to be meddied with for ever whereas circumcision was in use de jure after baptism was begun But I pray Sirs be not pickers and chusers thus at your own pleasure but if you will have an analogy to be held let it be in such things wherein it should be held between the old testament sacraments and the new An argument however ad hominem i. e. sufficient to confute you out of your own mouthes who plead so for analogy between those two administrations of the old testament and these two of the new arises naturally from your own opinions for if a proportion must needs be kept between circumcision and baptism in point of administration otherwise why not in the manner of the administration of these signes as they stand in reference to the things thereby signified so as that the one of these signes viz. baptism may stand in some proportion to its signatum as well as the other i. e. circumcision The Pascal lamb without blemish a bone of which was not to be broken did not onely signifie but lively resemble also Agnum immaculatum exhibendum that lamb Christ Iesus which was once to be offered without spot to God and not a bone of him to be broken also the supper that came after it doth not onely signifie but resemble also Agnum exhibitum Christ crucified that immaculate lamb now offered whose body was broken and blood shed by bread broken and wine powred forth Circumcision or cutting off the superfluous foreskin of the flesh did not only signify but lively represent the signatum the Circumcision of the heart i. e. sanctification the paring off and putting away the fleshly superfluities of the heart and can you give us think you or give your selves either any good account why baptism onely of all the rest should be exempted in this case from bearing with the rest an Analogy proportion and similitude to its signatum i. e. the thing mainly notifyed therein which originally is the death burial and resurrection of Christ and our communion therewith and plantation into the likenesse thereof is not the manner of administration of that to be such also as may resemble and so onely the way of dipping doth a Death Buriall and Resurrection Rouse up and reckon but with your consciences a little and see if they will tell you otherwise if they do they give the ly and that you who deify your Orthodox Divines will be loath to do to all divines both antient and modern who so far as I find except onely Mr. Blake do teach us that the end of all the institutions of the Old and New Testament to which you allow the name of Sacraments are ex instituto to resemble as well as signify their signifyed objects Kekerman referres all the Sacraments to the signes of that sort that do signifie cum Analogia i. e. that bear a likenesse to the things signifyed System log p. 12. 13. Calvin and Ursin that are men of much note in your Account are thus opinioned both as you may see in the institutions of the one and the Catechism of the other whether we are directed by you for sufficient furniture for infants baptisme Calvin saies thus of the Sacraments Institutionum lib. 4. cap. 14. sect 20. The Sacraments of the old Testament did tend to the very same end and purpose as ours now do namely that they might direct and lead us as it were by the hand to Christ or rather that they might represent him as certain images or pictures and set him forth to us to be known Ursins Catechism saies no lesse but much more and that much more plainly to this purpose and what is spoken there too is not spoken as the opinion of Pareus or Ursin onely but as the mind of one that may be more taking with you then any of these viz. Saint Austin who is stiled Malleus Hereticorum one that maâ—…ld the Hereticks in his daies who also is sainted up in so many pages of your Ashford Pamphlet that you cannot for shame unsaint him so far as not to believe him but to rehearse a little what is there said in the 358. 359. pages of that book after mention made of the promise of the Gospel you may find these words viz. That promise that is given us in the word God doth more plainly declare to us by the sacraments namely by that likenesse which is between the signs and those things which are signified as a picture or image declares that of which it is
the other yet coâ—…es this sixâ—… of the Rom. 3. and 4. to prove the Analogy that is between the sign and the thing signifyed in baptism in his 24 question in page 668. quae est analogia conventenâ—…a sigâ—… et rei signatae in Baptismo optima c. saith he What is that Analogy and Agreement which is between the sign and the thing signifyed in baptism Most apâ—… forasmuch as in the same Manner as the water washes the body and clenses it from bodily impurities so the blood of Christ by its merits washes away our sins and spiritual impurities and his spirit sanctifyes us Moreover that immersion into water or aspersion doth most clearly denote Rantismon the sprinkling of the blood of Christ in order to remission of Sins and imputation of righteousnesse but the abode Quantumvis Momentanea quantula cunque saith Tilenus though never so small so that both these confute Mr Cooks fancy of a necessity of 3 daies abode under water if we will have Christs burial represented lively denotes the death burial of our corruption by vertue of the death burial of Christ that is the mortification of the old man but the rising out of the water doth most analogically as it were object unto our eyes â—…he resurrection of the new man or our vivisication and newnesse of life and also our resurrection at the last day See how this man saving that he shuffles in aspeâ—…sion and immersion as nothing differing doth own immersion into water abode under it rising out of it as the most admirable way of analogy to signifie and resemble what evâ—…r was to be resembled in baptism again in his 53 question p. 692. he quotes Rom. 6. 4. saying with allusion to that Scripture that Predicatione sacramentali we are said in baptism to die to be buried to be raised with Christ and that baptism confirmes our faith in these things because it doth pingere mortem c. plainly paint out the death burial and resurrection of Christ and therein is documentum c. a certain lesson of our renovation and resurrection Now the reason of all such sacramentall locutioâ—… whereby the things signified are said to be done in the outward sign is saith Paraeus analogia signi et reâ—… signatae tale enim quiddam est res significata in suo genere quale quiddam est signum in suo genere c. The likenesse that is between the outward sign and the thing signified for such as the thing signified is in its kind just such a thing the sign is in its kind for as the water washes away the filth of the flesh so Christs blood our sinnes and in such a manner as the sign is outwardly dispensed so inwardly the thing signified as the minister acts without so God within c. As therefore God within by the power of Christs death and resurrection mortifies buries to sin and raises us to righteousnesse so must not the administrator without semblably bury the person in water in baptism unto death and raise him again unto life or in token of his resurrection to a new life if not where is then the analogie and if no analogie why are we said sacramentally in baptism to be buried and raised sith the cause of all such sacramental locution is because the sacraments are as Austin saies pictures of the things signified in them or is aspersion an action as answerable to a burial and resurrection and painting it out as lively as submersion and emersion do hic murus ahaeneus esto This I know as sorry a shifâ—… as it is must be your most inmost shelter when all is done for it can never be with any colour of reason nor is it by any reasonable men that I know save Mr. Cook and Mr. Blake denied but that baptism must 〈◊〉 according to the word yea that word Rom. 6 â—…ol 2. bear analogy to and the image of the thing signified yea and that very thing of all the rest which are represented therein viz. a death burial and resurrection by being under water and brought out of it again though by all that sprinkle t is moâ—… heedlessely thought and therefore as senselessely taught that rantism i. e. aspersion sets forth those to the life as much as baptism i. e. immersion or overwhelming Among the rest that write of baptism with any allusion to those Scriptures we are yet in hand with what learned Tilenus saith is worth your animadversion I confesse the man though in his judgement he seem clear for our manner of baptizing by immersion submersion and emersion as that which was the onely primitive action and institution yet is so far benighted by the mist and black vail of implicit faith which hath covered all Christendom as to suppose that aspersion may now serve the turn and that for sundry reasons some of which are apparently faâ—…se and never a one of them worth a â—…raw which I le repeat and answer as I go for saith he Ritus in baptismo est triplex immersio in aquam 〈◊〉 sub aquâ et emersio ex aquâ quam vis autem immersio usâ—…atior olim fuerit presertim in Judea c. The outward ceremony to be used in baptism is threefold dipping into the water abode under the water and rising out of the water but howbeit this immersion was the usual way in former times especially in Judea and other warmer Countries rather then aspersion where note that he grants and who does â—…ot but Mr. Cook Mr. Baxter and Mr. Blake that having once denied it do strenuously resist it that the primitive way in Iudea and those Regions was totall dipping yet saith he the circumstance pertaines not to the substance of baptism which is false for I have proved that to be no baptism that is but sprinkling Secondly and sith the analogy of the Sacrament may be held out no lesse in aspersion then immersion which is as false and fond a fanâ—…asm as the other for sprinkling hath no more likenesse in it to a death a burial and a resurrection which though Mr. Cook and Mr. Blake deny it yet Tilenus himself abundantly pleads as I shall shew and that ex instituto from these Scriptures Rom. 6. Col. 2. ought to be represented in baptism then it hath likenesse to immersion submersion and emersion and that 's not so much as is between an apple and a nut Thirdly and sith in legall purifications sufficiebaâ—…t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sprinklings did suffice which if they did it was because these sprinklings with blood of the sacrafices which were as well on the mercy seat as on the people in token of onenesse or atonement between God and them were instituted directly and solely to point out the spiritual sprinkling of Christs blood on the mercy seat in heaven and on us here on earth in token of atonement which is not the thing onely mainly originally or immediately signified neither so as that it onely is to
be remembred and resembled in baptism but the truth of the death burial and resurrection of Christ as the root whence all the other flows and therefore that reason though true yet is nothing to the purpose Fourthly sith immersion quoth he may indanger the health specially of such tender infants as are wont to be baptized now a daieâ—… which shewes that of old such were not baptized and that Christ never instituted this ordinance for infants who cannot bear the dispensation of it to them as it should be by right without danger of death but must of necessity and in charity and in humane prudence taking upon it to correct the divine wisdome of Christ and modle his ordinances more to their own ease have another thing i. e. Rantism universally dispensed to them instead of it Fiftly sith both these rites viz. sprinkling and dipping are expressed by the name of baptism Mat. 3. 26. Luke â—…1 38. Mark the 7. 4. then which nothing is more contrary to truth for though t is true that dipping is stiled baptism in Mat. 3. 16. the place he brings to prove that where note again that Christ himself was baptized by submersion yet that 's not true that Rantism is any where called by the name of baptism yea in the very places he uses to prove that viz. Luke 11. Mark 7. t is most evident that t was more then sprinkling yea and no lesse then a dipping that is there called baptism for t was washing of hands which if ever any body living saw any but slovens wash when foul by no more then sprinkling two or three drops of water on them they have seen more then ever I saw to my remembrance since ever I were born and christned For these forâ—…named reasons saith Tilenus we suppose the Church by the law of charity anâ—… neâ—…essity may use which of these rites she pleases By all which it appears that though speculatively he saw submersion to be the way by institution unlesse out of necessity and charity the Church forbid it yet practically he was as you are for aspersion and this makes the more against you in this matter in that a man that retained sprinkling as you do sith t is the fashion in these colder climates should yet be constrained to confesse so much institution as he does for that way of truth I mean submersion which we contend for for seriously take away the wretched reasons which flattered him in to speak favorably of sprinkling he was as to the true way of total dipping caetera orthodoxâ—…s as orthodox as we desire him to be Iâ—…e bestow the paines of rehearsing what he writes so far as concerns our purpose in very elogan Latine p. 884. 886. 889. 890. of his disputations in as plain English as I am able Baptism saith he is the first sacrament of the New Testament instituted by Christ in which with a most paâ—… and exact Analogy between the sign and the thing signifyed those that are in Covenant are by the Minister washed in water the outward rite of baptism is three fold immersion into the water abiding under the water and resurrection out of the water the form of baptism to wit internal and essential is no other then that Analogicall proportion which the signes keep with the things signifyed thereby for as the properties of the water in washing away the 〈◊〉 of the body do in a most suitable similitude set forth the effiâ—…acy of Christs blood in blotting out of sins so dipping into the water doth in a most lively similitude â—…et forth the mortification of the old man and rising out of the water the vivification of the New although that Leviticaâ—… rite of sprinkling of blood Exod. 24. 8. did more grossely resemâ—…e the blood of Christ yet that was not so exact a similitude as is in the water of our baptism That same plunging into the water holds forth to us that horrible gulfe of of divine Justice in which Christ for our sins sake which he took upon him was for a while in a manner swallowed up Abode under the water how little a while soever yet saies Mr. Cook it must be three daies answerable to Christ three daies burial or else it answers it not as a true resemblance of it at all denotes his descent into hell even the very deepest degree of lifelessenesse while lying in the sealed and guarded sepulchre he was accounted as one truly dead rising out of water holds out to us a lively simitude of that conquest which this dead man got over death which he vanquished in his own den as it were that is the grave in like manner therefore it is meet that we being baptized into his death and buried with him should rise also with him and so go on in a new life Rom. 6. 3. 4. Col. 2. 12. that these things are signifyed unto us in baptism the very outward rites themselves do teach for immersion shadowes out to us the pravity of our nature dying in us in which our old man dies and is buried with Christ the progresse of which benefit putting forth its power in us by a little abode under the water points out even as rising out of the water sers forth a new life corruption being done away hence it is that baptism is called the washing of Regeneration and that whereby we are saved â—…us 3. 5. 1 Pet. 3. 21. namely because what is done outwardly by the body in the sign the same is truly performed and confirmed to believers in the soul and even therefore both the names and properties of the sign and the thing signified are very often interchangeably attributed to each other by a Sacramentally metonimy Thus saith Tilenus in the forecited pages and some of this he repeats ore again page 1078. whereby you may guesse that in this his thoughts were well digested Forma Baptismi est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saies he sive Relatio c. The Form of baptism is that Analogicall relation of the external and earthly which are the signes with the heavenly things or things signifyed this relation and most lively similitude that is between them is the cause why both the names and the properties of the signes and things signifyed are frequently given to one another by a familiar metonimy of the holy Scriptures wherein baptism is called the washing of regeneration and is said to save us saith he and in this respect also say I we are said to be buryed and raised in baptism in those places because of that lively resemblance of and likenesse to a burial and resurrection that ought by institution to be in the dispensation of baptism and that is in that institution if practised as ordained by Christ. Now who would think by all this but that this man had been baptized indeed i. e. dipped into buried under and brought out of the water in his baptism in remembrance and resemblance of Christs death resurrection and his own with him for how
baptism that was in the primitive and purest times and for a reformation of all things according to the word and example of the Churches the word speake of it is true those Churches indeed worshipped thus were congregated thus ordered thus baptized thus viz. by dipping when they believed but sprinkling infants is the way and fashion now adaies and as for what was done of the Churches of old we have nothing to do with it and if any list to be contentions for it we have no such custom now nor the Churches of God! of which sure Mr. Cook cannot but be ashamed who hath covenanted to reforme according to the word fiâ—… a covenant keeper and a Custom-monger cannot possibly be denominated both of one Rantist Nay stay a little you 'l forget your own words I think anon did you not say your self even now that we must put difference between examples in substantiall matters and in matters meerly circumstantial we desire to keep as close as your selves can do to the primitive custom in things of weight and that there may be no variation from it without a violation of the will of Christ in any point that is positively commanded but I hope you will not make such a matter of moment of the manner of baptizing as if Chrst had injoined this way or that way of dispensation of it viz. dipâ—…ing so strictly as that sprinkling may not be used nor yet sprinkling so as that dipping may not be used nay rather its a meer ceremony a prudentiall point in which the Church may use her discretion so as to dispense it either way as conveniency and charity may dispose her and no lesse is very well observed by Mr. Baxter p. 135. Christ saith he hath not appointed the measure of water nor manner of washing no more then he hath appointed in the Lords supper what quantity of bread and wine each must take and as it would be but folly for any to think that men must needs fill themselves with bread and wine because it best signifies the fullnesse of Christ so it is no better to say that we must needs be washed all over because it best signifies our burial with Christ c. Christ told Peter that the washing of his feet was enough to clense all a little may signisie as well as much as a clod of earth doth in possession of much lands and a corn of pepper fignifies our homage for much and much to such a purpose are those words of Mr. Cook p. 20. some of which having been quoted and spoken to before though not so satisfactorily but that they sway with me still I am almost loath to repeat them yet sith they be so among the other I can hardly decline the mentioning them once more by your leave in answer to the objection that a little water doth not so fitly and perfectly represent as dipping and plunging sith in the one the whole body is washed in the other the face or head only He saies first that the Scripture no where requires the washing of the whole body in baptism Secondly that with as good reason one may plead thus that at the supper it is most convenient that every Communicant should receive his belly full of bread and wine and take as long as stomach and head will hold to signify the full refreshment of the soul with the body and blood of Christ but who saies he would endure such reasoning Thirdly These outward Elements of water bread and wine are for speciall use and to signify special things so that if there be the truth of things the quantity is not to be respected further then is sufficient for its end namely to represent the spiritual grace and that it be neither so little as not to represent nor so much as to take of the heart from the spirituall to the corporal thing not the washing away the filth of the body in baptism nor the glutting or satisfying of the natural Appetite in the Lords Supper is to be looked after but the washing and refreshing of the Soul which may well be represented by the sprinkling of a little water eating and drinking of a little bread and wine In circumcision a little skin was cut of You see what these worthy men say you need not be so hot as you are for the ceremony if so be you keep the substance Baptist. I have received as much as all this comes to long since in a loving letter from a worthy friend of mine whose words shall sway me where I see them suit with the word of truth where not I must be excused to the full as much as Mr. Cook and Mr. Blake and Mr. Baxters sway you be they right or wrong Grant that dipping was alwaies used in those Hot Countreys yet you know saith he that necessity and charity dispense with Ceremonies even of Gods own institution nor is the Nature of the Sacrament altered by this change viz. from dipping to sprinkling for seeing the whole vertue of the Sacrament is in signification perablutionem it no more matters Quantum quisque abluatur then it doth in the Supper Quantum quisque comedat But verily I am not able to discern either in this or in that you say above or in that you cite out of Mr. Cook and Mr. Baxter the least warrant in the world for the way of sprinkling or for waving the old wonted way of dipping with all the wisdome I have to weigh it by at this instant as for what you take notice of that I said my self above viz. that there is difference between matters circumstantial and substantial so that we need not be so strict in the observation of the one I will not eat any thing I then uttered but me thinks you might as well had you not been partial have taken notice of what followed as of that which had you done you would have seen how little accrues to your purpose out of that grant of mine for I told you there and now tell you again sith I see you so quick to catch at things by the halves and slow to mind what in them makes against you that howbeit it is not so material which way you baptize so you baptize yet if you Rantize onely you vary not onely in a circumstance but in the very substance of the Ordinance doing quite another matter then that you should do and not the matter i. e. Baptism in another manner onely for we will bear with that as a thing neither here nor there whether you baptize i. e. wash a person by overwhelming or burying him in water in this gesture or that this form or that with his face up or down yea be it by infusion of water on him or immersion or putting him under it which of the two is most proper and easy we weigh it not so you see to it that you bury and overwhelm him for all this while you retain both the true outward sign which is baptism or burial
in the field is the son of man i. e. Christ the field is the world therefore not the Church the good seed or wheat are the children of the Kingdom i. e. the Saints the true Church and worshippers the tares which while men slept and did not mind it the enemy came and sowed among the wheat i. e. in the same parts and places of the world Towns Countreyes c. locally considered the children of the wicked one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the same as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 Thes. 2. that wicked false worshippers of God after their own inventions mens precepts not his will people and priests grown up into a Church worship ministery religion insensibly by little and little from false principles and foundations custome forefathers prudential additions of orthodox men c. not the pure naked word it self a people born to their religion yea their christian religion in the way of flesh and blood and the will of man of the Pope and councells constituting and civil powers from them commanding not of God by the word of truth The Enemy that sowed them is the devil for he indeed filled the whole world even the whole Christian world with false worshippers false principled Clergy men and when he could not kill the wheat the Christians in the ten persecutions in his open war against them by the mouth of thâ—… beast or empire heathen wherein he prosecuted them under their own names because Constantine a Christian was come now to the crown then he turned Christian himself and would have Christianity imbraced by all meanes by a law and sowed the seed of false principles of stablishing Christian religion as the onely religion before which all other shall now down promoting Christianity in the shell that he might kill it in the substance causing great honours revenues Peters patrimonies to be given in favour of Christianity from which principles selfish ambitious lazy luxurious Ministers as the Pope formall meer nominal Christians gâ—…w up and overtopt the truth and true Saints that kept close to the truth in the midst of all this mock shew wherin the devil hath kept an apish imitaon of Christs church all along and ministry ordinances baptism supper church censure but all corrupt and trod the holy city to the ground Rev. 11. the same subtle one now he sees his trade of forcing men from the truth by the pâ—…inciple of conformity to the false Christianity and the old Spiritualty fail is now shifting himself undoubtedly in to another Spiritualty that will as much corrupt delude the world by the principle of liberty of conscience abused and turnd by the Ranter into license though we who plead for liberty of truth say in maxima libertate est minima licentia in the greatest liberty of conscience to serve God there 's the least licence to serve the devil by our lusts and corrupt our selves in what we know naturally as bruit beasts nor is that conscience that makes conscience of nothing The harvest is the end of the world the reapers the Angels by whom at that time Christ will throughly purge his floor and gather his wheat into his barn and burn up all chaff Tares husks weeds bryers thornes idolators hypocrites subtle seducers and sinful subverters of the truth whoever shall appear to have been such and all other trash with unquenchable fire Matth. 3. 12. Mean while I say still Tares may stand among wheat locally in one Country yet not lawfully in one church society Weeds and flowers Roses and nettles Lillies and thornes Vines and brambles Idolatours and true worshippers Believers and infidells the children of the Kingdome and of the wicked one the Temple of God and idols Christs church and the Devils chappel discovered hypocrites and sincere Saints Christians of all sorts save such whose very principle prohibits toleration and they make the case uncapable to be which will win or loose all stand alone or not at all as whether the P P Priesthoods do not or at least did not let all men judge Jews Turks and Pagans may be lawfully allowed their religions living in subjection under one civil power if the whole world were but one Monarchy in one World in one Field or Common-wealth though not in one Garden not in one Vineyard or Church and may not be made to be of the true religion whether they will or no yea I appeal to the conscience of any sober minded man whether if Pontius Pâ—…ue whom the Scripture stiles the Governour of Iudaea and a lawful Governour over the church a very heathen may be but no heathen lawfully a member much lesse an officer or a Governour in the Church whether I saie if Pilate should have been converted by Christ at the bar while he sate on the bench and truely believed in him it would have pleased Christ that he should have improved his civil power to have established Christianity in Iudaea and forced all men under penalty to believe in christ and renounce all meer Jewish worships or whether it had been as lawful a decree in Augustus â—…aesar to have forced all men to be Christians under a penalty as t was in him to issue out a decree that all the world should be taxed I suppose not but that he must have left all to their waies and have practised it himself and protected it from injury and propounded it to all in way of preaching but not prosecuting any by his civil power if they would yet remain Jewes or heathens and Christ might as easily have made Emperors his Disciples had he meant that the Gospel should be established by civil power And this is for the further safegard and advantage to the wheat as I sayd before for Christ gives this reasâ—…n why he would have the tares to be leâ—… alone least by rooting out the taâ—…es the wheat be roâ—…ed out also for if all religions may stand then the true one may stand in quiet without disturbance if all peâ—…ple may walk every one in the name of his God Mich. 4. 5. then we may walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever but if all be beaten down in a state and but one stand ten thousand to nothing it is not the truth that is there established for truth may be trodden down but treads not down others in a violent way of persecution Besides if true Religion establish it self alone in some States by forcing men to subject to it its gives a bad example to false religions in other states that think themselves in the right to do the like and force men that love the truth there to submit to them and â—…o there 's quiâ—… for quo and no end of disturbances they saying that we are Tares we that they are and so there is nothing but pulling up by the roots if toleration be not tolerated as the most peacemaking principle and so in these bussles if the wheat grow alone some where it must fall
me saith the Lord yea had you been sprinkled with holy water it self yet except you repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sins through his blood which so doing saves even them that shed it you are not onely by eating and drinking unworthily i. e. disorderly at the Supper which baptism must precede in Gospel reformation but also by your cruelty to his disciples whom you would have crusht if you could tell how become guilty of the body and blood of the Lord however repent or repent not this I say unto you from the Lord that your bloody principle of persecution for conscience and forced conformity to your foolish forms canons creeds chatechisms dictates directories shall utterly perish from off the earâ—…h I wish the Independents for their turn 's next look to it in time and take heed of turning aside too much from that precious principle of depending upon no King but Christ in conscience cases neither state Councells nor Church councells nor Classes save onely for conscience to Christ to be subject freely in all meer civill cases to the one and for cognizance sake to consult in meer church and conscience cases with the other and whom else they please keeping Church and State as distinct as t is possible which the CCClergy have confounded so together that we have lost the true Peculiarities of either and as not suffering such sawcy doings as to have most general Assemblies of the Kiâ—…k quâ Church Assemblies to be tampering at all with state affairs so not troubling any officers of state qua State officers no not the highest nor Committees nor Sheriffs to wearinesse with representations of things pertaing purely to churches and church orderes expecting no more then a passive permissive influence from them to the church-ward i. e. to let all Churches and all religions Jewes themselves alone to their light till they see the true one so be they live faithfully under them and quietly peaceably and civilly one by another but me thinks I smell a mixt mongrel Independency too much on foot and creeping on an Indepency by the halves a Presbyterian Independency Independency too dependant in church work upon the state for state pay enquiring after parish maintenance telling some truth and taking as much tith as they can lay their hands on lending liberty to themselves to have no supper in the parishes when they please yet resolving to make the people pay for it so long as they preach whether they eat a bit of it at all yea or no A thing I cannot well tell what to call it that has a smack too much of Smectimnuus and yet t is not so tyrannical neither nor yet so tender towards a toleration of all consciences and Religions though of all tender conscienced Christians as that the poor Jew or natural Israelite can have any room or creep hole by it into the Common-wealth in order to his conversion he must keep out unlesse he be so converted before he come as to resolve heel own Christ and not speak against him as not the Christ which what power in any State under heaven can banish a Jew out of any nation for doing I plainly know not an Independency that is willing to let Israel go but not to let another Israel come into the Land so as to promulgate his principle which I'm sure is contrary to the principles of Christian Religion oâ—… if the Jew may deny Christ and yet live in the world in quiet why not another unlesse the word can gain him to the belief of it as well as he Independents a word or two with you by the way no hurt I hope if you will have but patience I find proposals presented Fâ—…b 11. 1651. that make me amazâ—…d to think that they should come from Independents for I took Independents till of late to be genuine Independents indeed but I see there 's nothing but may have something like it which is not the same and such is your Semi-demiindependency to me For supply of all parishes in England with Orthodox Ministers it s propounded that the Sheriff of each County give account to the Committee what parish hath no Minister â—…hat maintenance each such parish hath what Ministers that reside in each County have no livings and such of them as are Orthodox be placed there as the Committee shall think sit For settling right constituted Churches that all Churches that are or shall be gathered signifie to the Committee of the Universities or elsewhere whom they have or shall choose for their Pastors and that such and such onely shall be declared right constituted Churches whose Pastor shall be approved by the Committee to be able godly â—…nd orthodox Fye Fye Sirs that you will still have such a minglement of Sheriffs Committees Ministers Churches in a kind of Omnigatherum about the Gospell and your Churchwork and that you will trouble the Sheriffs to find what pay is in parishes what parishes want Ministers and what Ministâ—…rs lack means if your Ministers lack meanes cannot they look after it themselves and bestow them selves in some honest calling or other to get a living out on or if they cannot cannot your Churches see to them a little what they lack or do you lack to have the tithes and parish pay turned ore to you now as the Presbyters gaped after augmentations from the Bâ—…shops Deans and chapters lands if you do I hope the State will save your longing as they did theirs and take them sheer away root and branch and let those Churches that have Ministers maintain them if they need and let the Gospel be preached freely by Messengers from Churches to the Gentiles to the world without charging them with it till converted to it for such you suppose the nation to be now as well as we and not a Church of Christ why else do you gather Churches of Christ out of it will you gather Churches of Christ out of Churches of Christ what rule have you for that surely Churches must be gathered out of the world and if so that the nation be no true constituted Church of Christ it s no true Church of Christ for Christ hath no falsely constituted true Churches that I know of and so her Ministers no true Ministers of Christâ—… for Christs Ministers are not Ministers of no Church but such as came remotely as to their ordination and parish posture baptism and all from the Pope whom if you also look upon with such favourable construction as to own him and his ordinations and his baptism and administrations and what the Prelate and Presbyter sucks in a way of succession from thence as Apostolical so as to stand Ministers and baptized by it I shall think the world goes round then indeed and that whoever chances to get on horseback and sit in the Saddle here in England whether Prelate Presbyter or Independent they cannot chuse for customes sake but face about still