Writings And from these the School-men that succeeded learnt the trick of imposing what they lift upon their Readers and declining the force of true Reason by verbal Forks I mean distinctions that signifie nothing but serve onely to astonish the multitude of ignorant men as for the understanding Readers they were so few that these new sublime Doctors cared not what they thought these School-men were to make good all the Articles of Faith which the Pope from time to time should command to be believed amongst which there were very many inconsistent with the Rights of Kings and other Civil Sovereigns as asserting to the Pope all Authority whatsoever they should declare to be necessary in ordine ad Spiritualia that is to say in order to Religion From the Universities also it was that Preachers proceeded and were poured out into City and Countrey to terrifie people into obedience to the Popes Canons and Commands which for fear of wakening Kings and Princes too much they durst not yet call them Laws From the Universities it was that the Philosophy of Aristotle was made an ingredient to Religion as serving for a Salve to a great many absurd Articles concerning the nature of Christ's Body and the state of Angels and Saints in Heaven which Articles they thought fit to have believed because they bring some of them profit and others reverence to the Clergy even to the meanest of them for when they shall have made the People believe that the meanest of them can make the Body of Christ who is there that will not both shew them reverence and be liberal to them or to the Church especially in the time of their sickness when they think they make and bring to them their Saviour B. But what advantage to them in these Impostures was the Doctrine of Aristotle A. They have made more use of his Obscurity than his Doctrine for none of the antient Philosophers Writing are comparable to those of Aristotle for their aptness to puzzle and intangle men with words and to breed disputation which must at last be ended in the determination of the Church of Rome And in the Doctrine of Aristotle they made use of many points as first the Doctrine of separated Essences B. What are separated Essences A Separated Beings B. Separated from what A. From every thing that is B. I cannot understand the Being of any thing which I understand not to be but what can they make of that A. Very much in questions concerning the nature of God and concerning the state of man's Soul after death in Heaven Hell and Purgatory by which you and every man knows how great obedience and how much Money they gain from the common People Whereas Aristotle holdeth the Soul of Man to be the first giver of Motion to the Body and consequently to it self They make use of that in the Doctrine of Free-will what and how they gain by that I will not say He holdeth forth that there be many things that come to pass in this World from no necessity of Causes but meer Contingency Casualty and Fortune B. Me-thinks in this they make God stand idle and to be a meer spectator in the Games of Fortune for what God is the cause of must needs come to pass and in my opinion nothing else But because there must be some ground for Justice of the eternal Torment of the Damned perhaps it is this That mens Wills and Propensions are not they think in the hands of God but of themselves And in this also I see something conducing to the Authority of the Church A. This is not much nor was Aristotle of such credit with them but that when his opinion was against theirs they could slight him whatsoever he says is impossible in Nature they can prove well enough to be possible from the Almighty power of God who can make Bodies to be in one and the self-same place and one Body to be in many places at the same time if the Doctrine of Transubstantiation require it though Aristotle deny it I like not the design of drawing Religion into an Art whereas it ought to be a Law And though not the same in all Countreys yet in every Countrey indisputable nor that they teach it as Arts ought to be taught by shewing first the meaning of their Terms and then deriving from them the Truth they would have us believe nor that their Terms are for the most part untelligible though to make it seem rather want of Learning in the Reader than want of sair dealing in themselves they are for the most part Latin and Greek words wried a little the point towards the Native Language of the several Countries where they are used But that which is most intollâ—rable is That all Clerks are forced to make as if they believe them if they mean to have any Church-Preferment the Keys whereof are in the Popes hands and the common People whatsoever they believe of those sâ—btâ—â— Doctrines are never esteemed better Sons of the Church for their Learning There is but one way there to Salvation that is extraordinary Devotion and Liberality to the Church and readiness for the Churches sake if it be required to fight against their Natural and Lawful Sovereigns B. I see what use they make of Aristotles Logick Physick and Metaphysicks But I see not yet how his Politicks can serve their turn A. Nor I It has I think done them no good though it has done us here much hurt by accident for men grown weary at last of the Insolence of the Priests and examining the Truths of those Doctrines that were put upon them began to search the sense of the Scriptures as they are in the Learned Languages and consequently Studying Greek and Latin became acquainted with the Democratical Principles of Aristotle and Cicero and from the Love of their Eloquence fell in Love with the Politicks and more and more till it grew into the Rebellion we now talk of without any other advantage to the Roman Church but that it was awakening to us whom since we broke out of their Net in the time of Henry 8. they have continually endeavoured to recover B. What have they gotten by teaching of Aristotles Ethicks A. It is some advantage to them that neither the Morals of Aristotle nor of any other have done them any harm nor us any good Their Doctrine have caused a great deal of Dispute concerning Vertue and Vice but no knowledge of what they are nor any method of attaining Vertue nor of avoiding Vice The end of Moral Philosophy is to teach men of all sorts their Duty both to the publick and to one another The Estimate Virtue partly by a Mediocrity of the Passions of Men and partly by that that they are praised whereas it is not the much or little praise that makes an Action Virtuous but the Cause nor much or little blame that makes an Action Vitious but its being unconformable to the Laws in such men
would rather have chosen to obey the Pope that could cast your Body and Soul into Hell than the King that can onely kill the Body A. You say true for it were very uncharitable in me to believe that all Englishmen except a few Papists that have been born and called Hereticks ever since the Reformation of Religion in England should be damn'd B. But for those that die Excommunicate in the Church of England at this day do you not think them also damn'd and he that is Excommunicate for disobedience to the King's Law either Spiritual or Temporal is Excommunicate for sin and therefore if he die Excommunicate and without desire of reconciliation he dies impenitent you see what follows But to die in disobedience to the Precepts and Doctrine of those men that have no Authority or Jurisdiction over us is quite another case and bringeth no such danger with it B. But what is this Heresie which the Church of Rome so cruelly persecutes as to depose Kings that do not when they are bidden turn all Hereticks out of their Dominions A. Heresie is a Word which when it is used without passion signifies a private Opinion so the different Sect of the old Philosophers Academians Peripateticks Epicureans Stoicks c. were called Heresie But in the Christian Church there was in the signification of that word comprehended a sinful opposition to him that was chief Judge of Doctrines in order to the Salvation of mens Souls and consequently Heresie may be said to bear the same relation to the Power Spiritual that Rebellion doth to the Power Temporal and is suitably to be persecuted by him that will preserve a Power Spiritual and dominion over mens Consciences B. It would be very well because we are all of us permitted to read the holy Scriptures and bound to make them the Rule of our actions both publick and private that Heresie were by some Law defined and the particular Opinions set forth for which a man were to be condemned and punished as a Heretick for else not onely men of mean capacity but even the wisest and devoutest Christian may fall into Heresie without any will to oppose the Church for the Scriptures are hard and the interpretations different of different men A. The meaning of the word Heresie is by Law declared in Act of Parliament in the First Year of Queen Elizabeth wherein it is ordained that the Persons who had by the Queens Letters Patents the Authority Spiritual meaning the High Commission shall not have Authority to Adjudge any matter or cause to be Heresie but only such as heretofore have been Adjudged to be Heresie by the Authority of the Canonical Scriptures or by the First 4 General Councils or by any other General Council where the same was declared Heresie by the express and plain words of the said Canonical Scriptures or such as hereafter shall be adjudged Heresie by the High Court of Parliament of this Realm with the assent of the Clergy in their Convocation B. It seems therefore if there arise any new Error that hath not been yet declared Heresie and many such may arise it cannot be Judged Heresie without a Parliament for how foul soever the error be it cannot have been declared Heresie neither in the Scriptures nor in the Councils because it was never before heard of and consequently there can be no Error unless it fall within the compass of Blasphemy against God or Treason against the King for which a man can in Equity be punished Besides who can tell what is declared by the Scripture which every man is allowed to read and interpret to hemself nay more what Protestant either of the Laity or Clergy if every General Council can be a competent Judge of Heresie is not already condemned for divers Councils have declar'd a great many of our Doctrines to be Heresie as they pretend upon the Authority of the Scriptures A. What are those points that the first four General Counsels have declared Heresie B. The first General Councel held at Nicaea declared all to be Heresie which was contrary to the Nicene Creed Upon occasion of the Heresie of Arrius which was the denying the Divinity of Christ the Second General Councel held at Constantinople declar'd Heresie the Doctrine of Macedonius which was that the Holy Ghost was created The Third Councel assembled at Ephesius condemned the Doctrine of Nestorius that there were two persons in Christ The Fourth held at Calcedon condemned the Error of Emtyches that there was but one nature in Christ I know of no other Points condemned in these four Councels but such as concern Church-Government or the same Doctrines taught by other Men in other words And these Councels were all called by the Emperors and by them their Decrees confirmed at the Petition of the Councels themselves A. I see by this that both the Calling of the Council and the confirmation of their Doctrine and Church-Government had no obligatory force but from the Authority of the Emperor how comes it then to pass that they take upon them now a Legislative Power and say their Canons are Laws That Text all Power is given to me in Heaven and Earth had the same force then as it hath now and conferred a Legislative Power on the Councils not only over Christian men but over all Nations in the world B. They say no for the Power they pretend to is derived from this that when a King was converted from Gentilism to Christianity he did by that very Submission to the Bishop that converted him submit to the Bishops Government and became one of his sheep which Right therefore he could not have over any Nation that was not Christian A. Did Silvester which was Pope of Rome in the time of Constantine the Great converted by him tell the Emperor his New Disciple before hand that if he became a Christian he must become the Popes Subject B. I believe not for it is likely enough if he had told him so plainly or but made him suspect it he would either have been not Christian at all or but a Counterfeit one A. But if he did not tell him so and that plainly it was foul play not only in a Priest but in any Christian And for this Derivation of their Right from the Emperors consent it proceeds only from this that they dare not challenge a Legislative power nor call their Canons Laws in any Kingdom in Christendom farther than the Kings make them so But in Peru when Atabalipa was King the Fryer told him that Christ being King of all the World had given the diposing of all the Kingdoms there to the Pope And that the Pope had given Peru to the Roman Emperor Charles the 5. and required Atabalipa to resign it and for refusing it seised upon his Person by the Spanish Army there present and murdered him You see by this how much they claim when they have power to make it good B. When began the Popes to take this
who as they were not much molested in points of Conscience so they were not by their own Inclination very troublesom to the Civil Government but by the secret practice of Jesuites and other Emissaries of the Roman Church they were made less quiet than they ought to have been and some of them to venture upon the most horrid Act that ever had been heard of before I mean upon the Gunpowder Treason and upon that account the Papists in England have been looked upon as men that would not be sorry for any disorders here that might possibly make way to the restoring of the Pope's Authority and therefore I named them for one of the distempers of the State of England in the time of our late King Charles B. I see that Monsieur du Plesis and Dr Morton Bishop of Durham writing of the progress of the Pope's Power and intituling their Books one of them The Mystery of Iniquity the other The Grand Imposture were both in the right for I believe there was never such another cheat in the World And I wonder that the Kings and States of Christendom never perceived it A. It is manifest they did perceive it How else durst they make War against the Pope and some of them take him out of Rome it self and carry him away Prisoner but if they would have freed themselves from his Tyranny they should have agreed together and made themselves every one as Henry the Eighth did Head of the Church within their own respective dominions but not agreeing they let his power continue every one hopeing to make use of it when there should be cause against his neighbour B. Now as to the other Distemper by Presbyterians How came their Power to be so great being of themselves for the most part but so many poor Scholars A. This Controversy between the Papist and Reformed Churches could not chuse but make every man to the best of his power examine by the Scriptures which of them was in the right and to that end they were translated into Vulgar Tongue Whereas before the Translation of them was not allowed nor any man to read them but such as had express License so to do for the Pope did concerning the same that Moses did concerning Mount Sinai Moses suffered no man to go up to it to hear God speak or gaze upon him but such as he himself took with him and the Pope suffered none to speak with God in the Scriptures that had not some part of the Pope's Spirit in him for which he might be trusted B. Certainly Moses did therein very wisely and according to God's own Commandment A. No doubt of it and the event it self hath made it since appear so for after the Bible was Translated into English every Man nay every Boy and Wench that could read English thought they spoke with God Almighty and understood what he said when by a certain Number of Chapters a Day they had read the Scriptures once or twice over the Reverence and Obedience due to the Reformed Church here and to the Bishops and Pastors therein was cast off and every man became a Judge of Religion and an Interpreter of the Scriptures to himself B. Did not the Church of England intend it should be so What other end could they have in recommending the Bible to me if they did not mean I should make it the Rule of my Actions else they might have kept it though open to themselves to me Sealed up in Hebrew Greek and Latin and fed me out of it in such measure as had been requisite for the Salvation of my Soul and the Churches peace A. I confess this License of Interpreting the Scripture was the cause of so many several Sects as have lain hid till the beginning of the late King's Reign and did then appear to the disturbance of the Commonwealth but to return to the Story Those persons that fled for Religion in the time of Queen Mary resided for the most part in places where the Reformed Religion was professed and governed by an Assembly of Ministers who also were not a little made use of for want of better Statesmen in points of Civil Government which pleased so much the English and Scotch Protestants that lived amongst them that at their return they wished there were the same Honour and Reverence given to the Ministry in their own Countries and in Scotland King James being then young soon with the help of some of the powerful Nobility they brought it to pass also they that returned into England in the beginning of the Reign of Queen Elizabeth endeavoured the same here but could never effect it till this last Rebellion nor without the help of the Scots and it was no sooner effected but it was defeated again by the other Sects which by the preaching of the Presbyterians and private Interpretation of Scripture were grown numerous B. I know indeed that in the beginning of the late War the Power of the Presbyterians was so very great that not only the Citizens of Londen were almost all of them at their Devotion but also the greatest part of all other Cities and Market Towns of England But you have not yet told me by what Art and what Degrees they became so strong A. It was not their own Art alone that did it but they had the conâ—urrence of a great many Gentlemen thaâ— did no less desire a Popular Government in the Civil State than these Ministers did in the Church and aâ—â— these did in the Pulpit draw the People to their Opinions and to a dislike of the Church-Government Canons and Common-Prayer-Book so did the other make them in love with Democracy by their Harangues in the Parliament and by their discourse and communication with people in the Countrey continually extolling of Liberty and inveighing against Tyranny leaving the people to collect of themselves that this Tyranny was the present Government of the State And as the Presbyterians brought with them into their Churches their Divinity from the Universities so did many of the Gentlemen bring their Politicks from thence into the Parliament but neither of them did this very boldly in the time of Q. Eliz. and though it be not likely that all of them did it out of malice but many of them out of error yet certainly the chief Leaders were ambitious Ministers and ambitious Gentlemen the Ministers envying the Authority of Bishops whom they thought less learned and the Gentlemen envying the Privy-Council whom they thought less wise than themselves For 't is a hard matter for men who do all think highly of their own Wits when they have also acquired the Learning of the University to be perswaded that they want any ability requisite for the Government of a Commonwealth especially having read the Glorious Histories and the Sententious Politicks of the Antient Popular Government of the Greeks and Romans amongst whom Kings were hated and branded with the name of Tyrants and Popular Government though no Tyrant
as are subject to the Law or its being unconformable to Equity or Charity in all men whatsoever B. It seems you make a difference between the Ethicks of Subjects and the Ethicks of Soveraigns A. So I do The Vertue of a Subject is comprehended wholly in obedience to the Laws of the Commonwealth To obey the Laws is Justice and Equity which is the Law of Nature and consequently is Civil Law in all Nations of the World and nothing is Injustice or Iniquity otherwise then it is against the Law Likewise to obey the Law is the Prudence of a Subject for without such obedience the Commonwealth which is every Subjects safety and protection cannot subsist And though it be Prudence also in private men justly and moderately to enrich themselves yet craftily to withold from the Publick or defraud it of such part of the Wealth as is by Law required is no sign of Prudence but of want of knowledge of what is necessary for their own defence The Vertues of Soveraigns are such as tend to the maintenance of Peace at Home and to the resistance of Forreign Enemies Fortitude is a Royal Vertue and though it be necessary in such private men as shall be Soldiers yet for other men the less they dare the better it is both for the Commonwealth and for themselves Frugality though perhaps you would think it strange is also a Royal Vertue for it increases the publick stock which cannot be too great for the Publick Use nor any man too sparing of what he has in trust for the good of others Liberality also is a Royal Vertue for the Commonwealth cannot be well serv'd without Extraordinary Diligence and Service of Ministers and great Fidelity to their Soveraign who ought therefore to be incouraged and especially those that do him service in the Wars In summ all Actions or Habits are to be esteemed Good or Evil by their Causes and Usefulness in reference to the Commonwealth and not by their Mediocrity nor by their being commended for several men praise several Customes and that which is Vertue with one is blam'd by others and contrarily what one calls Vice an other calls Vertue as their present Affections lead them B. Methinks you should have placed amongst the Vertues that which in my Opinion is the greatest of all Vertues Religion A. So I have though it seems you did not observe it But whether do we Disgress from the way we were in B. I think you have not Digressed at all for I suppose your purpose was to acquaint me with the History not so much of those Actions that past in the time of the late Troubles as of their Causes and of the Counsels and Artifiâ—es by which they were brought to pass There be divers men that have written the History out of whom I might have Learned what they did and somewhat also of the Contrivance But I find little in them of it I would ask therefore since you were pleased to enter into this Discourse at my request be pleased also to inform me after my own method And for the danger of Confusion that may arise from that I will take care to bring you back to the place from whence I drew you for I well remember where it was A. Well then to your Question concerning Religion Inasmuch as I told you that Vertue is comprehended in Obedience to the Laws of the Commonweath whereof Religion is one I have placed Religion amongst the Vertues B. Is Religion then the Law of a Commonwealth A. There is no Nation in the World whose Religion is not Established and receives not its Authority from the Laws of that Nation It is true that the Law of God receives no obedience from the Laws of Men But because men can never by their own Wisdom come to the knowledge of what God hath spoken and Commanded to be Observed nor be obliged to obey the Laws whose Author they know not they are to acquiâ—ss in some humane Authority or other So that the Question will be Whether a man ought in matter of Religion that is to say when there is question of his Dâ—ty to God and the King to rely upon the Praeaching of their Fellow-Subjects or of 2 Stranger or upon the voice of the Law B. There is no great difficulty in that point for there is none that Preach here or any where else at least ought to Preach but such as have Authority so to do from him or them that have the Soveraign Power So that if the King give us leave you or I may as lawfully Preach as them that do and I believe we should perform that Office a great deal better than they that preached us into Rebellion A. The Church Morals are in many points very different from these that I have here set down for the Doctrine of Vertue and Vice and yet without any conformity with that of Aristotle for in the Church of Rome the principle Vertues are to obey their Doctrine though it be Treason and that is to be Religious to be beneficial to the Clergy that is their Piety and Liberality and to believe upon their word that which a man knows in his Conscience to the false which is the Faith that they require I could name a great many more such points of their Morals but that I know you know them already being so well versed in the cases of Conscience written by their School-men who measure the goodness and wickedness of all Actions by their Congruity with the Doctrine of the Roman Clergy B. But what is the Moral Philosophy of the Protestant Clergy in England A. So much as they shew of it in their Life and Conversation is for the most part very good and of very good example much better than their Writings B. It happens many times that men live honestly for fear who if they had Power would live according to their own Opinions that is if their Opinions be nor right Unrighteously A. Do the Clergy in England pretend as the Pope does or â—s the Presbyterians do to have a right from God immediately to govern the King and his Subjects in all points of Religion and Manners If they do you cannot doubt but that if they had Number and Strength which they are never like to have they would attempt to attain that Power as the others have done B. I would be glad to see a System of the present Morals written by some Divine of good Reputation and Learning and of the late King's party A. I think I can recommend unto you the best that is extant and such an one as except a few passages that I mislike is very well worth your reading the Title of it is The whole Duty of Man laid down in a plain and familiar way And yet I dare say that if the Presbyterian Ministers even those of them that were the most diligent Preachers of the late Sedit on were to be tried by it they would go near to be found
seditious Doctrine of the Presbyterians hath been stuck so hard in the Peoples heads and memories I cannot say into their hearts for they understood nothing in it but that they may lawfully rebel That I fear the Common-wealth will never be cured A. The two great Vertues that were severally in Henry the 7. Henry the 8. When they shall be Joyntly in one King will easily cure it that of Henry the 7. was without much noise of the people to fill his Coffers that of Henry the 8. was an early severity but this without the former cannot be exercised B. This that you say looks methinks like an advice to the King to let them alone till he have gotten ready money enough to levy and maintain a sufficient Army and then to fall on them and destroy them A. God forbid that so horrible Unchristian and unhumain design should ever enter into the Kings heart I would have him have money enough readily to raise an Army able to suppress any Rebellion and to take from the Enemies all hope of success that they may nâ—t dare to trouble him in the Reformation of the Universities but to put none to death without the Actual committing such Crimes as are already made Capital by the Laws the Core of Rebellion as you have seen by this and read of other Rebellions are the Universities which nevertheless are not to be cast away but to be better disciplin'd that is to say that the Politicks there taught be made to be as true Politicks should be such as are fit to make men know that it is their duty to obey all Laws whatsoever that shall be by the Authority of the King enacted till by the same Authority they shall be repeal'd such as are fit to make men understand that the Civil Laws are Gods Laws as they that make them and to make men know that the people and the Church are one thing and have but one Head the King and that no man has Title to govern under him that has it not from him that the King owes his Crown to Cod only and to no man Ecclesiastick or other and that the Religion they teach there be a quiet waiting for the coming again of blessed Saviour and in the mean time a Resolution to obey the Kings Laws which are also Gods Laws to injure no man to be in Charity with all men to cherish the Poor and Sick and to live Soberly and free from Scandal without mingling our Religion with points of Natural Phylosophy as freedom of Will Incorporeal substance Everlasting News Ubiquities Hypostases Which the people understand not nor will ever care for when the Universities shall be thus disciplined there will come out of them from time to time well Principled Preachers and they that are ill principled from time to time fall away B. I think it a very good course and perhaps the only one that can make our peace amongst our selves constant for if men know not their Duty what is there that can force them to obey they Laws An Army you 'l say but what shall force the Army were not the Train'd Bands an Army Were they not the Janisaries that not long ago slew Osman in his own Palace at Constantinople I am therefore of your opinion both that men may be brought to a love of Obedience by Preachers and Gentlemen that imbibe good Principles in their Youth at the Universities and also that we never shall have a lasting peace till the Universites themselves be in such manney as you have said reformed and the Ministers know they have no Authority but what the supream Civil Power gives them â—nd â—â—e Nobility and Gentry know that the Liberty of a State is not an Exemption from the Laws of their own Countrey whether made by an Assembly or by a Monarchy but an Exemption from the constraint and Insolence of their Neighbours And now I am satisfied in this point I will bring you back to the place from whence my Curiosity drew you to this long digression We were upon the point of Ship-money one of those grievances which the Parliament exclaimed against as Tyranny and Arbitrary Government thereby to single out as you called it the King from his Subjects and to make a party against him when they should need it And now you may proceed if it please you to such other Artifices as they used to the same purpose A. I think it were better to give over here our discourse of his business and refer it to some other day that you shall think fit B. Content that day I believe is not far off A. You are welcome yet if you had stayed somewhat longer My Money would have been so much the better provided for you B Nay I pray you give me now what you have about you for the rest I am content to take what time you please A. After the Parliament had made the people believe that the Extorting of Ship-money was unlawful and the people thereby inclined to think it Tyrannical in the next place to increase their disaffection to his Majesty They accused him of a purpose to Introduce and Authorize the Roman Religion in this Kingdom Than which nothing was more hateful to the people not because it was Erroneous which they had neither Learning nor Judgment enough to examine but because they had been used to heat it inveyed against in the Sermons and Discourses of the Preachers whom they trusted to and this was indeed the most effectual calumny to alienate the peoples affections from him that could possibly be invented the colour they had for this stand was First that there was one Rosseti Resident at and a little before the time from the Pope with the Queen And one Mr. George Con-secratary to the Cardinal Francisco Barbâ—rini Nephew to Pope Urban the Eighth sent over under favour and protection of the Queen as was conceived to draw as many persons of quality about the Court as he should be able to reconcile themselves to the Church of Rome with what success I cannot tell but it is likely he gained some especially of the weaker Sex If I may say they were gained by him when not his Arguments but hope of favour from the Queen in all probability prevailed upon them B. In such a Conjuncture as that was it had perhaps been better they had not been sent A. There wâ—s exception also taken at a Covent of Friers Capucines in Sommerset-house though allowed by the Articles of Marriage and it was reported that the Jescites also were shortly after to be allowed a Covent in Clerkenwel and in the mean time the principal Secretary Sir Francis Windebank was accused for having by his Warrant set at liberty some English Jesuites that had been taken and Imprisoned for returning into England after Banishment contrary to the Statute which had made it Capital also the great resort of English Catholicks to the Queens Chappel gave them Colour to blame the Queen her self not only for
believe oppose the Lower House B. But why were the Lower House so earnest against them A. Because they meant to make use of their Tenants and with pretended Sanctity to make the King and his Party odious to the People by whose help they were to set up Democracy and Depose the King or to let him have the Title only so long as he should Act for their purposes But not only the Parliament but in a manner all the People of England were their Enemies upon the account of their behaviour as being they said too imperious This was all that was colourable laid to their charge the main of the pulling them down was the Envy of the Presbyterians that incensed the People against them and against Episcopacy it self B. How would the Presbyterians have the Church to be govern'd A. By National and Provincial Synods B. Is not this to make the National Assembly an Arch-Bishop and the Provincial Assemblies so many Bishops A. Yes but every Minister shall have the delight of sharing the Government and consequently of being able to be reveng'd on them that do not admire their Learning and help to fill their purses and win to their service them that do B. 'T is a hard Case that there should be two Factions to trouble the Common-wealth without any Interest of their own other than every particular man may have and that their quarrels should be only about Opinions that is about who has the most Learning as if their Learning ought to be the Rule of Governing the whole World What is it they are Learned in is it Politicks and Rules of State I know it is called Divinity but I hear almost nothing preacht but matter of Philosophy for Religion in it self admits of no Controversie 'T is a Law of the Kingdom and ought not to be disputed I do not think they pretend to speak with God and know his will by any other way than reading the Scriptures which we also do A. Yes some of them do and give themselves out for Prophets by extraordinary Inspiration but the rest pretend only for their Advancement to Benefices and Charge of Souls a greater skill in the Scriptures than other men have by reason of their breeding in the Universities and knowledge there gotten of the Latin Tongue and some also of the Greek and Hebrew Tongues wherein the Scriptures were written besides their knowledge of Natural Philosophy which is there publickly taught B. As for the Latin Greek and Hebrew it was once to the Detection of the Roman Fraud and to the Ejection of the Romish Power very profitable or rather necessary But now that is done and we have the Scripture in English and Preaching in English I see no great need of Latin Greek and Hebrew I should think my self better qualified by under standing well the Languages of our Neighbours French Dutch and Italian I think it was never seen in the world before the Power of Popes was setup that Philosophy was much conducing to power in a Commonwealth A. But Philosophy together with Divinity hath very much conduced to the Advancement of the Professors thereof to places of the greatest Authority next to the Authority of Kings themselves in most of the Antient Kingdoms of the world as is manifestly to be seen in the History of those times B. I pray you cite me some of the Authors and places A. First what were the Druids of old time in Britany and France what Authority these had you may see in Caesar Strabo and others and especially in Diodorus Siculus the greatest Antiquary perhaps that ever was who speaking of the Druids which he calls Sarovides in France saith thus There be also amongst them certain Philosophers and Theologians that are exceedingly honoured whom they also use as Prophets These men by their skill in Augury and Inspection into the Bowels of Beasts sacrificed foretel what is to come and have the multitude in obedience to them and a little after It is a custom amongst them that no man may sacrifice without a Philosopher because say they men ought not to present their Thanks to the Gods but by them that know the Divine Nature and are as it were of the same language with them and that all good things ought by such as these to be prayed for B. I can hardly believe that those Druids were very skilful either in Natural Philosophy or Moral A. Nor I for they held and taught the Transmigration of Souls from one Body to another as did Pythagoras which Opinion whether they took from him or he from them I cannot tell What were the Magi in Persia but Philosophers and Astrologers You know how they came to find our Saviour by the Conduct of a Star either from Persia it self or from some Country more Eastward than Judea were not these in great Authority in their Country And are they not in most part of Christendom thought to have been Kings Aegypt hath been thought by many the most Antient Kingdom and Nation of the world and their Priests had the greatest power in Civil Affairs that any Subject ever had in any Nation And what were they but Philosophers and Divines Concerning whom the same Diodorus Siculus saies thus The whole Country of Egypt being divided into three parts the Body of the Priests have One as being of most credit with the people both for their Devotions towards the Gods and also for their Understanding gotten by Education and presently after for generally those men in the greatest Affairs of all the King's Councellors partly Executing and partly Informirg and Advising foretelling him also by their skill in Astrology and Art in the Inspection of Sacrifices the things that are to come and reading to him out of their Holy Books such of the Actions there recorded as are profitable for him to know 'T is not there as in Greece one man or one woman that has thé Priesthood but they are many that attend the Honours and Sacrifices of the Gods and leave the same Imployment to their posterity which next to the King have the greatest Power and Authority Concerning the Judicature amongst the Aegyptians he saith thus From out of the most eminent Cities Hieropolis Thebes and Memphis they chuse Judges which are Council not inferiour to that of Areopagus in Athens or that of the Senate in Lacedoemon when they are met being in number thirty they chuse one from among themselves to be Chief Justice and the City whereof he is sendeth another in his place This Chief Justice wore about his neck hung in a gold Chain a Jewel of precious Stones the name of which Jewel was Truth which when the Chief Justice had put on then began the Pleading c. And when the Judges had agreed on the Sentence then did the Chief Justice put this Jewel of Truth on one of the Pleas. You see now what power was acquired in Civil matters by the conjuncture of Philosophy and Divinity Let us come now to the
plainly told them they must sit no longer Richard's Authority and business in Town being thus at an end heretir'd into the Country where within a few days upon promise of the payment of his Debts which his Fathers Funeral had made great he signed a Resignation of his Protectorship B. To whom A. To no body But after ten days cessation of the Soveraignty some of the Rumpers that were in Town together with the old Speaker Mr. William Lenihall resolv'd among themselves and with Lambert Haslerig and other Officers who were also Rumpers in all 42 to go into the House which they did and were by the Army declar'd to be the Parliament There were also in Westminster-Hall at that time about their private business some few of those whom the Army had secluded in 1648. and were called the secluded Members These knowing themselves to have been Elected by the same Authority and having the same Right to sit attempted to get into the House but were kept out by the Soldiers The first Vote of the Rump reseated was That such persons as were heretofore Members of this Parliament and have not â—â—tten since the year 1648. shall not sit in this House till farther order of the Parliament And thus the Rump recover'd their Authority May the seventh 1659. which they lost in April 1653. B. Seeing there have been so many shiftings of the Supreme Authority I pray you for memories sake repeat them briefly in time and order A. First From 1640 to 1648. when the King was murthered the Soveraignty was disputed between King Charles the First and the Presbyterian Parliament 2ly From 1648 to 1653. the Power was in that part of the Parliament which voted the Tryal of the King and declar'd themselves without King or House of Lords to have the Supreme Authority of England and Ireland For there were in the Long-Parliament two Factions the Presbyterian and Independent The former whereof sought only the subjection of the King not his destruction and this part is it which was called the Rump 3ly From April the 20 to July the 4 the Supreme Power was in the Hands of a Council of State constituted by Cromwel 4ly From July the 4 to December the 12 of the same year it was in the Hands of Men called unto it by Cromwel whom he termed men of Fidelity and Integrity and made them a Parliament which was called in contempt of one of the Members Barebone's Parliament 5ly From December the 12 1653 to September the 3. 1658 it was in the hands of Oliver Cromwel with the Title of Protector 6ly From September 1658 to April the twenty fifth 1659. Richard Cromwel had it as Successor to his Father 7ly From April the twenty fifth 1659. to May the seventh of the same year it was no where 8ly From May the 7th 1659. the Rump which was turn'd out of Door 1653. recovered it again and did lose it again to the Committee of Safety and again recover it and again lose it to the right Owner B. By whom and by that Art came the Rump to be turn'd out the second time A. One would think them safe enough the Army in Scotland which when it was in London had helped Oliver to pull down the Rump submitted now beg'd pardon and promis'd Obedience The Souldiers in Town had their pay mended and the Commanders every where took the old Engagement whereby they had acknowledged their Authority heretofore they also received their Commissions in the House it self from the Speaker who was Generalissimo Fleetwood was made Lieutenant-General with such and so many limitations as were thought necessary by the Rump that remembred how they had been serv'd by their General Oliver Also Henry Cromwel Lord Lieutenant of Ireland having resign'd his Commission by Command returned into England But Lambert to whom as was said Oliver had promis'd the succession and as well as the Rump knew the way to the Protectorship by Oliver's own foot-steps was resolv'd to proceed in it upon the first opportunity which presented it self presently after Besides some Plots of Royalists whom after the old fashion they again persecuted there was an Insurrection made against them by Presbyterians in Cheshire headed by Sir G. Booth one of the secluded Members they were in number about 3000 and their pretence was for a Free-Parliament There was a great talk of another Rising or endeavour to Rise in Devonshire and Coâ—â—wâ—l at the same time To suppress Sir George Booth the Rump sent down more than a sufficient Army under Lambert which quickly defeated the Cheshire party and recover'd Chester Leverpool and all the other places they had seized divers of their Commanders in and after the battel were taken Prisoners whereof Sir George Booth himself was one This exploit done Lambert before his return caressed his Soldiers with an entertainment at his own house in York-shire and got their consent to a Petition to be made to the House that a General might be set up in the Army as being unfit that the Army should be judged by any power extrinsick to it self B. I do not see that unfitness A. Nor I. But it was as I have heard an action of Sir Henry Vane's But it so much displeased the Rump that they Voted that the having of more General 's in the Army than were already setled was unnecessary burthensom and dangerous to the Common-wealth B. This was not Oliver's method for though this Cheshire Victory had been as glorious as that of Oliver's at Dunbar yet it was not the Victory that made Oliver General but the resignation of Fairfax and the proffer of it to Cromwel by the Parliament A. But Lambert thought so well of himself as to expect it therefore at his return to London he and other Officers assembling at Wallingford-house drew their Petition into form and called it a representation wherein the chief point was to have a General with many other of less importance that were added And this they represented to the House October the 4th by Major General Desborough And this so far forth awed them as to teach them so much good manners as to promise to take it presently into debate which they did and October the 12th having recovered their Spirits Voted That the Commissions of Lambert Desborough and others of the Council at Wallingford-house should be void Item That the Army should be governed by a Commission to Fleet-wood Monk Haslerig Walton Morley and Overton till Feb. the 12th following and to make this good against the Force they expected from Lambert they ordered Haslerig and Morley to issue Warrants to such Officers as they could trust to bring their Soldiers next Morning into Westminster which was done somewhat too late for Lambert had first brought his Soldiers thither and beset the House and turn'd back the Speaker which was then coming to it but Haslerig's Forces marching about St. James's Park wall came into St. Margaret's Church-yard and so both Parties looked all day one upon another
for an University of Learning there was none erected till that time though it be not unlikely there might be then some that taught Philosophy Logick and other Arts in divers Monasteries the Monks having little else to do but to study After some Colledges were built to that purpose it was not long before many more were added to them by the Devotion of Princes and Bishops and other wealthy men and the Discipline therein was confirmed by the Popes that then were and abundance of Scholars sent thither by their friends to study as to a place from whence the way was open and easie to preferment both in Church and Commonwealth The profit the Church of Rome expected from them and in effect received was the maintenance of the Pope's Doctrine and of his Authority over Kings and their Subjects by School Divines who striving to make good many points of Faith incomprehensible and calling in the Philosophy of Aristotle to their assistance wrote great Books of School Divinity which no man else nor they themselves were able to understand as any man may conceive that shall consider the writing of Peter Lombard or Scotus or of him that wrote Commentaries upon him or of Suarez or of any other School-Divines of later times which kind of Learning nevertheless hath been much admired by two sorts of men otherwise prudent enough The one of which sorts were those that were already Devoted and really affectionate to the Roman Church for they believed the Doctrine before but admired the Arguments because they understood them not and yet found the Conclusions to their mind The other sort were negligent men that had rather admire with others than take the pains to examine so that all sorts of people were fully resolved that both the Doctrine was true and the Pope's Authority no more then that was due to him I see that a Christian King or State how well soever provided he be of Money and Arms where the Church of Rome hath such authority will have but a hard match of it for want of men for their Subjects will hardly be drawn into the Field and fight with courage against their Consciences A. It is true that great rebellions have been raised by Church-men in the Pope's quarrel against Kings as in England against King John and in France against King Henry the Fourth wherein the Kings had a more considerable part on their sides than the Pope had on his and shall always have so if they have Money for there are but few whose Consciences are so tender as to refuse Money when they want it but the great mischief done to Kings upon pretence of Religion is when the Pope gives power to one King to Invade another B. I wonder how King Henry the Eighth so utterly extinguished the Authority of the Pope in England and that without any Rebellion at home or any Invasion from abroad A. First The Priests Monks and Friars being in the height of their Power were now for the most part grown insolent and licentious and thereby the force of their Arguments was now taken away by the scandal of their lives which the Gentry and men of good education easily perceived and the Parliament consisting of such persons were therefore willing to take away their Power and generally the Common people which for a long time had been in love with Parliaments were not displeased therewith Secondly The Doctrine of Luther beginning a little before was now by a great many men of the greatest Judgments so well received as that there was no hope to restore the Pope to his Power by Rebellion Thirdly The Revenue of the Abbies and all other Religious Houses falling hereby into the Kings hands and by him being disposed of to the most eminent Gentlemen in every County could not but make them do their best to confirm themselves in the possession of them Fourthly King Henry was of a nature quick and severe in the Punishing of such as should be the first to oppose his designs Lastly As to Invasion from abroad if the Pope had given the Kingdom to another Prince it had been in vain for England is another manner of Kingdom than Navarre besides the French and Spanish Forces were imployed at that time one against another and though they had been at leasure they would have found perhaps no better success than the Spaniard found afterwards in 1588. Nevertheless notwithstanding the Insolence Avarice and Hypocrisie of the then Clergy and nothwithstanding the Doctrine of Luther if the Pope had not provoked the King by endeavouring to cross his Marriage with his second Wife his Authority might have remained in England till there had risen some other quarrel B. Did not the Bishops that then were and had taken an Oath wherein was among other things that they should defend and maintain the Regal Rights of St. Peter the words are Regalia Sancti Petri which nevertheless some have said are Regulas Sancti Petri that is to say St. Peter's Rules or Doctrine and that the Clergy afterwards did read it being perhaps written in Short-hand by a mistake to the Pope's advantage Regalia Did not I say the Bishops oppose that Act of Parliament against the Pope's against the taking of the Oath of Supremacy A. No I do not find the Bishops did many of them oppose the King for having no power without him it had been great imprudence to provoke his Anger there was besides a Controversiy in those times between the Pope and the Bishops most of which did maintain that they exercised their Jurisdiction Episcopal in the Right of God as immediately as the Pope himself did exercise the same over the whole Church and because they saw that by this Act of the King in Parliament they were to hold their power no more of the Pope and never thought of holding it of the King they were perhaps better content to let the Act of Parliament pass in the reign of King Edward the Sixth the Doctrine of Luther had taken such great root in England that they threw out a great many of the Pope's new Articles of Faith with Queen Mary succeeding him restored again together with all that had been abolished by King Henry the Eighth saving that which could not be restored the Religious Houses and the Bishops and Clergy of King Henry were partly burnt for Hereticks partly fled and partly recanted and they that fled betook themselves to those places beyond Sea where the Reformed Religion was either protected or not prosecuted who after the decease of Queen Mary returned again to favour and preferment under Queen Elizabeth that restored the Religion of her Brother King Edward and so it had continued to this day excepting the interruption made in this late Rebellion of the Presbyterians and other Democratical men But thus the Romish Religion were now cast out by the Law yet there were abundance of people and many of them of the Nobility that still retained the Religion of their Ancestors
that but also for all the favours that had been shown to the Catholicks insomuch that some of them did not stick to say openly that the King was governed by her B. Strange Injustice The Queen was a Catholick by Profession and therefore could not but endeavour to do the Catholicks all the good she could she had not else been truely that which she professed to be but it seenâ—s they meant to force her to Hypocrisie being Hypocrites themselves Can any man think it a Crime in a Devour Lady of what Sect soever to seek Favour and Benediction of that Church whereof she is a Member A. To give the Parliament another Colour for their Accusation on foot for the King as to introducing of Popery there was a great Controversy between the Episcopal and Presbyterian Clergy about Free-will The Dispute began first in the Low-Countries between Gomar and Arminius in the time of King James who foreseeing it might trouble the Church of England did what he could to compose the difference an Assembly of Divines was therefore got together at Dort to which also King James sent Divine or two but it came to nothing the question was left undecided and became a Subject to be disputed of in the Universities here all the Presbyterians were of the same mind with Gomar but a very great many others not and those were called here Arminians who because the Doctrine of Free-will had been exploded as Papistical and because the Presbyterians were far the greater number and already in favour with the People they were generally hated it was casie therefore for the Parliament to make that Calumny pass currently with the People when the Archbishop of Canterbury Dr. Laud was for Arminius and had a little before by his Power Ecclesiastical forbidden all Ministers to Preach to the People of Predestination and when all Ministers that were gracious with him and hoped for any Church-preferment fell to Preaching and Writing for Free-will to the uttermost of their Power as a proof of their Ability and Merit Besides they gave out some of them that the Archbishop was in heart a Papist and in case he could effect here a Tolleration of the Romaâ— Religion to have Cardinal's Hat which was not only false but also without any ground at all for a Suspicion B. It is a strange thing that Scholars obscure men that could receive no Charity but from the flame of the State should be suffered to bring their unnecessary Disputes and together with them their quarrels out of the Universities into the Commonwealth and more strange that the State should engage in their Parties and not rather put them both to silence A State can constrain obedience but convince no Error nor alter the mind of them that believe they have the better reason Suppression of Doctrines dues but unite and exasperate that is increase both the malice and power of them that have already believed them But what are the Points they disagree in Is there any Controversy between Bishop and Presbyterian concerning the Divinity or Humanity of Christ Do either of them deny the Trinity or any Article of the Creed Does either Party Preach openly or Write directly against Justice Charity Sobriety or any other Duty necessary to Salvation except only the Duty to the King and not that neither but when they had a mind either to Rule or Destroy the King Lord have mercy upon us Can no body be saved that understands not their Disputations or is there more requisite either of Faith or Honesty for the Salvation of one Man than another What needs so much preaching of Faith to us that are no Heathens and believe already all that Christ and his Apostles have told us is necessary to salvation and more too Why is there so little Preaching of Justice I have indeed heard Righteousness often recommended to the People but I have seldom heard the Word Justice in their Sermons nay though in the Latin and Greek Bible the word Justice occurr exceeding often yet in the English though it be a word that every man understands the word Righteousness which few understand to signify the same but take it rather for Righteousness of Opinion than of Action or Intention is put in the place of it A. I confess I know very few Controversies amongst Christians of points necessary to Salvation they are the Questions of-of-Authority and Power over the Church or of Profit or Honour to Church-men that for the most part raise all the Controversies For what man is he that will trouble himself and fall out with his Neighbours for the saving of my Soul or the Soul of any other than himself When the Presbyterian Ministers and others did so furiously Preach Sedition and animate men to Rebellion in these late Wars who was there that had not a Benefit or having one feared not to lose it or some other part of hâ—s Maintenence by the alteration of the Government that did voluntarily without any eye to reward Preach so earnestly against Sedition as the other party Preached for it I confess that for ought I have observed in History and other Writings of the Heathens Greek and Laâ—ine that those Heathens were not at all short of us in point of Vertue and Moral Doties notwithstanding that we have had much Preaching and they none at all I confess also that considering what harm might proceed from a Liberty that Men have upon every Sunday and ostâ—eâ— to Harangue all the People of a Nation at one time whilst the State is ignorant what they will say and that there is no such thing permitted in all the World out of Chrisiendom â—or therefore any Civil Wars about Religion I have thought much Preaching an incovenience nevertheless I cannot think that Preaching to the People the points of their Duty both to God and Man can be too frequent so it be done by Grave Discreet and Ancient men that are Reverenced by the People and not by light quibling young men whom no Congregation is so simple as to look to be taught by as being a thing contrary to nature or to pay them any Reverence or to care what they say except some few that may be delighted with their Jingling I wish with all my Heart there were enough of such Discreet and Ancient men as might suffice for all the Parishes in England and that they would undertake it but this is but a wish I leave it to the wisdom of the State to do what it pleaseth B. What did they next A. Whereas the King had sent Prisoners into Places remote from London three Persons that had been condemned for publishing seditious Doctrine some in Writing some in publick Sermons that Parliament whether with his Majesties consent or no I have forgotten caused them to be released and to return to London meaning I think to try how the People would be pleased therewith and by consequence how their endeavours to draw the Peoples Affections from the King had already
prospered When these three came through London it was a kind of Triumph the People flocking together to behold them and receiving them with such Acclamations and almost Adoration as if they had been let down from Heaven Insomuch that the Parliament was now sufficiently assured of a great and tumultuous Party whensoever they should have occasion to use it on confidence whereof they proceeded to their next Plot which was to deprive the King of such Ministers as by their Courage Wisdom and Authority they thought most able to prevent or oppose their further Designs against the King And first the House of Commons resolv'd to impeach the Earl of Strafford Lord Lieutenant of Ireland of High-Treason B. What was that Earl of Strafford before he had that Place And how had he offended the Parliament or given them cause to think he would be their Enemy For I have heard that in former Parliaments he had been as Parliamentary as any other A. His Name was Sir Thomas Wentworth a Gentleman both for Birth and Estate very considerable in his own Country which was Yorkshire but more considerable for his Judgement in the Publick Affairs not only of that Country but generally of the Kingdom either as Burgess for some Borrough or Knight of the Shire For his Principles of Politicks they were the same that were generally proceeded upon by all Men else that are thought sit to be chosen for the Parliament which are commonly these To take for the Rule of Justice and the Government the Judgements and Acts of former Parliaments which are commonly called Precedents to endeavour to keep the People from being subject to Extra-Parliamentary Taxes of money and from being with Parliamentary Taxes too much oppressed to preserve to the People their Liberty of Body from their Arbitrary Power of the King out of Paâ—liament to seek Redress of Grievances B. What Grievances A. The Grievances were commonly such as these The King 's too much Liberality to some Favourite the too much Power of any Minister of State of Officer the Mâ—sdemeanours of Judges Civil or Spiritual but especially all Unparliamentary raising of Money upon the Subjects And commonly of late till such Grievances be redressed they refuse or at least make great difficulty to furnish the King with Money necessary for the most urgent occasions of the Commonwealth B. How then can a King discharge his Duty as he ought to do or the Subject know which of his Masters he is to obey For here are manifestly two Powers which when they chance to differ cannot both be obeyed A. 'T is true but they have not often differed so much to the danger of the Commonwealth as they have done in this Parliament of 1640. In all the Parliaments of the late King Charles before the year 1640. my Lord of Strafford did appear in opposition to the King's Demands as much as any man and was for that Cause very much esteemed and cryed up by the People as a good Patriot and one that couragiously stood up in defence of their Liberties and for the same cause was so much the more hated when afterwards he endeavoured to maintain the Royal and Just Authority of his Majesty B. How came he to change his mind so much as it seems he did A. After the Dissolution of that Parliament holden in the year 1627 and 1628 the King finding no Money to be gotten from Parliaments which he was not to buy with the Bloud of such Servants and Ministers as he loved best abstained a long time from calling any more and had abstained longer if the Rebellion of the Scotch had not forced him to it During that Parliament the King made Sir Thomas Wentworth a Baron recommended to him for his great ability which was generally taken notice of by the disservice he had done the King in former Parliaments but which might be useful also for him in the times that came on and not long after that he made him of the Council and again Lieutenant of Ireland which place he discharged with great satisfaction and benefit to his Majesty and continued in that Office till by the Envy and Violence of the Lords and Commons of that unlucky Parliament of 1640. he died in which year he was made General of the King's Forces against the Scotch that then entred into England and the year before Earl of Strafford The Pacification being made and the Forces on both sides Disbanded and the Parliament at Westminster now Sitting it was not long before the House of Commons accused him to the House of Lords of High-Treason B. There was no great probability of his being a Traitor to the King from whose favour he had received his greatness and from whose protection he was to expect his safety What was the Treason they laid to his Charge A. Many Articles were drawn up against him but the sum of them was contained in these two First That he had traiterously endeavour'd to subvert the Fundamental Laws and Government of the Realm and instead thereof to introduce an Arbitrary and Tyrannical Government against Law Secondly That he had laboured to subvert the Rights of Parliaments and the ancient course of Parliamentary Proceedings B. Was this done by him without the knowledge of the King A. No. B. Why then if it were Treason did not the King himself call him in question by his Attorney What had the House of Commons to do without his Command to accuse him to the House of Lords They might have complain'd to the King if he had not known it before I understand not this Law A. Nor I. B. Had this been by any former Statutes made Treason A. Not that I ever heard of nor do I understand that any thing can be Treason against the King that the King hearing and knowing does not think Treason But it was a piece of that Parliaments Artifice to put the word Traiterously to any Article exhibited against a Man whose life they meant to take away B. Was there no particular Instance of action or words out of which they argued that endeavour of his to subvert the fundamental Laws of Parliament whereof they accused him A. Yes they said he gave the King counsel to reduce the Parliament to their duty by the Irish Army which not long before my Lord of Strafford himself had caused to be levied there for the King's service but it was never proved against him that he advised the King to make use of it against the Parliament B. What are those Laws that are called fundamental for I understand not how one Law can be more fundamental than another except only that Law of Nature that binds us all to obey him whosoever he be whom lawfully and for our own safety we have promised to obey nor any other fundamental Law to a King but Salus Populi The safety and well being of the people A. This Parliament in the use of these words when they accused any Man never regarded the signification of
for the reducing of Ireland the Parliament invited Men to bring in Mony by way of Adventure according to these Propositions First That two Millions and five hundred thousand Acres of Land in Ireland should be assigned to the Adventurers in this proportion For an Adventure of 200 l. 1000 Acres in Vlster 300 l. 1000 Acres in Conaught 450 l. 1000 Acres in Munster 600 l. 1000 Acres in Lemster All according to English Measure and consisting of Meadow arable and profitable Pasture Bogs Woods and Barren Mountains being cast in over and above Secondly A Revenue was reserv'd to the Crown from 1 d. to 3 d. on every Acre Thirdly That Commissions should be sent by the Parliament to erect Mannors settle Wastes and Commons maintain preaching Ministers to create Corporations and to regulate Plantations The rest of the Propositions concern only the times and manner of payment of the Sums subscribed by the Adventurers and to those Propositions His Majesty assented but to the Petition for the Militia His Majesty denied His Assent B. If He had not I should have thought it a great Wonder What did the Parliament after this A. They sent Him another Petition which was presented to Him when He was at Theobalds in his way to York wherein they tell him plainly That unless He be pleased to assure them by those Messengers them sent that He would speedily apply His Royal Assent to the satisfaction of their former Desires they shall be forc'd for the Safety of his Majesty and his Kingdoms to dispose of the Militia by the Authority of both Houses c. They Petition'd His Majesty also to let the Prince stay at St. James's or some other of His Majesties Houses near London They tell him also That the Power of Raising Ordering and Disposing of the Militia cannot be granted to any Corporation without the Authority and Consent of Parliament And those Parts of the Kingdom that have put themselves into a posture of Defence have done nothing therein but by direction of both Houses and what is justifiable by the Laws of this Kingdom B. What Answer made the King to this A. It was a putting of themselves into Arms and under Officers such as the Parliament should approve of Fourthly They Voted that His Majesty should be again desir'd that the Prince might continue about London Lastly They Voted a Declaration to be sent to His Majesty by both the Houses wherein they accuse His Majesty of a design of altering Religion though not directly Him but them that counsel'd Him whom they also accus'd of being the Inviters and Fomenters of the Scots War and Framers of the Rebellion in Ireland And upbraid the King again for accusing the Lord Kimbolton and the Five Members and of being privy to the purpose of bringing up His Army which was rais'd against the Scots to be employ'd against the Parliament To which His Majesty replied from New-market Whereupon it was Resolv'd by both Houses That in this Case of extream Danger and of His Majesties Refusal the Ordinance agreed upon by both Houses for the Militia doth oblige the People by the Fundamental Laws of this Kingdom And also that whosoever should execute any Power over the Militia by colour of any Commission of Lieutenancy without Consent of both Houses of Parliament shall be accounted a Disturber of the Peace of the Kingdom Whereupon His Majesty sent a Message to both Houses from Huntingdon Requiring Obedience to the Laws Established and Prohibiting all Subjects upon pretence of their Ordinance to Execute any thing concerning the Militia which is not by those Laws warranted Upon this the Parliament Vote a standing to their former Votes as also That when the Lords and Commons in Parliament which is the Supreme Court of Judicature in the Kingdom shall declare what the Law of the Land it to have this not only questioned but contradicted is a high Breach of the Priviledge of Parliament B. I thought that he that makes the Law ought to declare what the Law is for what is it else to make a Law but to declare what it is so that they have taken from the King not only the Militia but also the Legislative Power A. They have so But I make account the Legislative Power and indeed all Power possible is contain'd in the Power of the Militia After this they seize such Mony as was due to His Majesty upon the Bill of Tunnage and Poundage and upon the Bill of Subsidies that they might disable him every way they possibly could They sent Him also many other contumelious Messages and Petitions after His coming to York amongst which one was That whereas the Lord Admiral by indisposition of Body could not command the Fleet in Person He would be pleased to give Authority to the Earl of Warwick to supply his place when they knew the King had put Sir John Penington in it before B. To what End did the King entertain so many Petitions Messages Declarations and Remonstrances and vouchsafe His Answers to them when He could not choose but clearly see they were resolv'd to take from Him His Royal Power and consequently His Life For it could not stand with their safety to let either Him or His Issue live after they had done Him so great Injuries A. Besides this the Parliament had at the same time a Committee residing at York to spy what His Majesty did and to inform the Parliament thereof and also to hinder the King from gaining the People of that County to His Party so that when His Majesty was Courting the Gentlemen there the Committee was Instigating of the Yeomanry against Him to which also the Ministers did very much contribute so that the King lost His opportunity at York B. Why did not the King seize the Committee into His hands or drive them out of His Town A. I know not but I believe He knew the Parliament had a greater Party than He not only in Yorkshire but also in York Towards the End of April the King upon Petition of the People of Yorkshire to have the Magazine of Hull to remain still there for the greater security of the Northern Parts thought fit to take it into his own hands He had a little before appointed Governor of the Town the Earl of Newcastle but the Townsmen having been already corrupted by the Parliament refused to receive him but refus'd not to receive Sir John Hotham appointed to be Governor by the Parliament The King therefore coming before the Town Guarded only by a few of His own Servants and a few Gentlemen of the Country thereabouts was deny'd Entrance by Sir John Hotham that stood upon the Wall for which Act he presently caused Sir John Hotham to be Proclaim'd Traytor and sent a Message to the Parliament requiring Justice to be done upon the said Hotham and that the Town and Magazine might be delivered into His hands To which the Parliament made no Answer but instead thereof published another Declaration in
would proceed to Judgment Then the King answering that he had no more to say the President began a long Speech in justification of the Parliaments Proceedings producing the Examples of many Kings kill'd or depos'd by wicked Parliaments Ancient and Modern in England Scotland and other parts of the World All which he endeavoured to justifie from this only Principle that the People have the Supreme Power and the Parliament is the People This Speech ended the Sentence of Death was read and the same upon Tuesday after January the 30. executed at the Gate of his own Palace of White-Hall He that can delight in reading how villanously he was used by the Souldiers between the Sentence and Execution may go to the Chronicle it self in which he shall see what courage patience wisdom and goodness was in this Prince whom in their Charge the Members of that wicked Parliament styled Traytor Tyrant and Murderer The King being dead the same day they made an Act of Parliament That whereas several pretences might be made to the Crown c. it is Enacted by this present Parliament and Authority of the same that no Person shall presume to declare proclaim or publish or any way promote Charles Stuart Son of Charles late King of England commonly called Prince of Wales or any other Person to be King of England and Ireland c. B. Seeing the King was dead and his Successors barr'd by what declar'd Authority was the Peace maintain'd A. They had in their anger against the Lords formerly declar'd the Supreme Power of the Nation to be in the House of Commons and now on February the fifth they Vote the House of Lords to be useless and dangerous And thus the Kingdom was turn'd into a Democracy or rather an Oligarchy for presently they made an Act That none of those Members who were secluded for opposing the Vote of Non-Addresses should ever be re-admitted And these were commonly called the Secluded Members and the rest were by some styled a Parliament and by others a Rump I think you need not now have a Catalogue either of the Vices or of the Crimes or of the Pollies of the greatest part of them that composed the Long-Parliament than which greater cannot be in the world What greater Vices than Irreligion Hypocrisie Avarice and Cruelty which have appeared so eminently in the actions of Presbyterian Members and Presbyterian Ministers What greater Crimes than Blasphemy and killing Gods Anointed which was done by the hands of the Indipendents but by the folly and first Treason of the Presbyterians who betrayed and sold him to his Murderers Nor was it a little folly in the Lords not to see that by the taking away of the Kings Power they lost withall their own Priviledges or to think themselves either for number or judgment any way a considerable assistance to the House of Commons And for those men who had skill in the Laws it was no great sign of understanding not to perceive that the Laws of the Land were made by the King to oblige his Subjects to Peace and Justice and not to oblige himself that made them Lastly and generally all men are Fools which pull down any thing which does them good before they have set up something better in its place He that would set up Democracy with an Army should have an Army to maintain it but these men did it when those men had the Army that were resolv'd to pull it down To these follies I might add the follies of those five men which out of their reading of Tully Seneca and other Antimonarchicks think themselves sufficient Politicks and shew their discontents when they are not called to the management of the State and turn from one side to the other upon every neglect they fancy from the King or his Enemies A. YOU have seen the Rump in possession as they believ'd of the Supreme Power over the two Nations of England and Ireland and the Army their Servant though Cromwel thought otherwise serving them diligently for the advancement of his own purpose I am now therefore to shew you their proceedings B. Tell me first how this kind of Government under the Rump or Relick of a House of Commons is to be call'd A. 'T is doubtless an Oligarchy for the Supreme Authority must needs be in one man or in more if in one it is Monarchy the Rump therefore was no Monarchy if the Authority were in more than one it was in all or in sewer than all when in all it is Democraty for every man may enter into the Assembly which makes the Soveraign Court which they could not do here It is therefore manifest the Authority was in a few and consequently the State was an Oligarchy B. Is it not impossible for a people to be well Governed that are to obey more Masters than one A. Both the Rump and all other Soveraign Assemblies if they have but one Voice though they be many Men yet are they but one Person for contrary Commands cannot consist in one and the same Voice which is the Voice of the greatest part and therefore they might govern well enough if they had honesty and wit enough The first Act of the Rump was the Exclusion of those Members of the House of Commons which had been formerly kept out by Violence for the precuring of an Ordinance for the King's Tryal for these men had appear'd against the Ordinance of Non-Addresses and therefore to be excluded because they might else be an Impediment to their future Designs B. Was it not rather because in the Authority of few they thought the fewer the better both in regard of their shares and also of a nearer approach in every one of them to the Dignity of a King A. Yes certainly what was their Principal End B. When these were put out why did not the Counties and Burroughs chuse others in their Places A. They could not do that without Order from the House After this they constituted a Council of forty persons which they termed a Council of State whose Office was to execute what the Rump should command B. When there was neither King nor House of Lords they could not call themselves a Parliament for a Parliament is a meeting of the King Lords and Commons to confer together about the Businesses of the Common-Wealth With whom did the Rump confer A. Men may give to their Assembly what Name they please what signification soever such Name might formerly have had and the Rump took the Name of Parliament as most suitable to their purpose and such a Name as being Venerable among the people for many hundred years had countenanced and sweetened Subsidies and other Levies of Money otherwise very unpleasant to the Subject They took also afterwards another name which was Custodes Libertatis Angliae which Title they used only in their Writs issuing out of the Courts of Justice B. I do not see how a Subject that is tyed to the Laws can have more
Tax upon the people of ninety thousand pound a Month for the maintenance of the Army B Was it not one of their Quarrels with the King that he had levied Money without the consent of the people in Parliament A. You may see by this what reason the Rump had to call it self a Parliament for the Taxes imposed by Parliament were always understood to be by the peoples consent and consequently legal To appease the Scots they sent Messengers with flattering Letters to keep them from ingaging for the present King but in vain for they would hear nothing from a House of Commons as they call'd it at Westminster without a King and Lords But they sent Commissioners to the King to let him know what they were doing for him for they were resolv'd to raise an Army of seventeen thousand Foot and six thousand Horse for themselves To relieve Ireland the Rump had resolv'd to send eleven Regiments thither out of the Army here in England This happened well for Cromwel for the Levelling Soldiers which were in every Regiment many and in some the major part finding that instead of dividing the Land at home they were to venture their Lives in Ireland flatly denied to go and one Regiment having cashier'd their Colonel about Salisbury was marching to joyn with three Regiments more of the same resolution but both the General and Cromwel falling upon them at Burford utterly defeated them and soon after reduced the whole Army to their obedience And thus another of the Impediments to Cromwel's Advancement was soon remov'd Thus done they came to Oxford and thence to London and at Oxford both the General and Cromwel were made Doctors of the Civil Law and at London â—easted and presented by the City B. Were they not first made Masters then Dâ—ctors A. They had made themselves Masters already both of the Laws and Parliament The Army being now obedient the Rump sent over those eleven Regiments into Ireland under the Command of Doctor Cromwel Entituled Governour of that Kingdom the Lord Fairfax being still General of all the Forces both here and there The Marquess now Duke of Ormond was the Kings Lieutenant of Ireland and the Rebels had made a Confederacy among themselves and those Confederates had made a kind of League with the Lieutenant wherein they agreed upon liberty given them in the exercise of their Religion to be faithful to and assist the King To these also were joyned some Forces raised by the Earls of Castlehaven and Clanriccard and my Lord Inchequin so that they were the greatest United Strength in the Island but there were among them a great many other Papists that would by no means subject themselves to Protestants and these were called the Nuncio's Party as the other were called the Confederate Party These Parties not agreeing and the Confederate Party having broken their Articles the Lord Lieutenant seeing them ready to besiege him in Dublin and not able to defend it to preserve the place for the Protestants surrenders it to the Parliament of England and came over to the King at this time when he was carried from place to place by the Army From England he went over to the Prince now King residing then at Paris But the Confederates affrighted with the news that the Rump was sending over an Army thither desir'd the Prince by Letters to send back my Lord of Ormond ingaging themselves to submit absolutely to the Kings Authority and to obey my Lord of Ormond as his Lieutenant And thereupon he was sent back This was about a year before the going over of Cromwel in which time by the Dissentions in Ireland between the Confederate Party and the Nuncio's Party and discontents about Command this otherwise sufficient Power effected nothing and was at last defeated August the second by a Salley out of Dublin which they were besieging Within a few days after arriv'd Cromwel who with extraordinary diligence and horrid Executions in less than a Twelve-month that he staid there subdued in a manner the whole Nation having kill'd or exterminated a great part of them and leaving his Son-in-law Ireton to subdue the rest But Ireton died there before the business was quite done of the Plague This was one step more towards Cromwel's Exaltation to the Throne B. What a miserable condition was Ireland reduced to by the Learning of the Roman as well as England was by the Learning of the Presbyterian Clergy A. In the latter end of the preceeding year the King was come from Paris to the Hague and shortly after came thither from the Rump their Agent Dorisâ—aus Doctor of the Civil Law who had been imployed in the drawing of the Charge against the late King But the first night he came as he was at Supper a Company of Cavaliers near a dozen entred his Chamber kill'd him and got away Not long after also their Agent at Madrid one Ascham that had written in defence of his Masters was kill'd in the same manner About this tire came out two Books one written by Salmasius a Presbyterian against the Murder of the King another written by Milton an Independent in England in Answer to it B. I have seen them both they are very good Laâ—iâ—â— both and hardly to be judged which is better and both very ill reasoning and hardly to be judged which is worst like two Declamations Pro and Con for Exercise only in a Rhetorick School by one and the same man So like is a Presbyterian to an Independent A. In this year the Rump did not much at home save that in the beginning they made England a Free State by an Act that runs thus Be it Enacted and Declared by this present Parliament and by the Authority thereof That the people of England and all the Dominions and Territories thereunto belonging are and shall be and are hereby constituted made and declared a Common-wealth and Free State c. B. What did they mean by a Free State and Common-wealth were the people no longer to be subject to Laws They could not mean that for the Parliament meant to Govern them by their own Laws and punish such as broke them Did they mean that England should not be subject to any foreign Kingdom or Common-wealth That needed not be Enacted seeing there was no King nor People pretended to be their Masters What did they mean then A. They meant that neither this King nor any King nor any single person but only that they themselves would be the Peoples Masters and would have set it down in those plain words if the people could have been cozen'd with words intelligible as easily as with words not intelligible After this they gave one another Money and Estates out of the Lands and Goods of the Loyal Party They Enacted also an Engagement to be taken by every man in these words Tou shall promise to be true and faithful to the Common-wealth of England as it is now established without King or House of Lords They
he meant to sweep the Sea of all English Shipping After this in February â—he Dutch with Van Tromp were encountred by the English under Blake and Dean near Ports-mouth and had the worst And these were all the Encounters between them this year in the narrow Seas they fought also once at Leghorn where the Dutch had the better B. I see no great odds yet on either side if there were any the English had it A. Nor did either of them e're the more incline to Peace for the Hollanders after they had sent Ambassadors into Denmark Sweeden Poland and the Hans Towns whence Tar and Cordage are usually had to signifie the Declaration of the War and to get them to their Party re-called their Ambassadors from England and the Rump without delay gave their parting audience without abating a Syllable of their former severe Propositions and presently to maintain the War for the next year laid a Tax upon the People of 120000 l. per Mâ—nsem B. What was done in the mean time at home A. Cromwel was now quarrelling the last and greatest Obstacle to his Design the Rump and to that end there came out dayly from the Army Petitions Addresses Remonstrances and other such Papers some of them urging the Rump to dissolve themselves and make way for another Parliament to which the Rump unwilling to yield and not daring to refuse determin'd for the end of their sitting the 5th of November 1654. but Cromwel meant not to stay so long In the mean time the Army in Ireland was taking Submissions and granting Transportations of the Irish and condemning who they pleased in a High Court of Justice erected there for that purpose Among those that were executed was hang'd Sir Phelim Oneale who first began the Rebellion in Scotland the English built some Citadels for the bridling that stubborn Nation and thus ended the year 1652. B. Come we then to the year 1653. A. Cromwel wanted now but one step to the end of his Ambition and that was To set his Foot upon the Neck of this Long-Parliament which he did April the 23th of this present year 1653. a time very seasonable for though the Dutch were not master'd yet they were much weakned and what with Prizes from the Enemy and squeezing the Royal Party the Treasury was pretty full and the Tax of 120000 l. a Month began to come in all which was his own in right of the Army Therefore without any more ado attended by the Major Generals Lambert and Harrison some other Officers and as many Souldiers as he thought fit he went to the Parliament House and dissolv'd them turn'd them out and lock'd up the Doors and for this Action he was more applauded by the people than for any of his Victories in the War and the Parliament men as much scorn'd and derided B. Now that there was no Parliament who had the Supreme Power A. If by Power you mean the right to Govern no body had it if you mean the Supreme Strength it was clearly in Cromwel who was obeyed as General of all the Forces in England Scotland and Ireland B. Did he pretend that for Title A. No but presently after he intended a Title which was this That he was necessitated for the defence of the Cause for which at first the Parliament had taken up Arms that is to say Rebell'd to have recourse to extraordinary Actions You know the pretence of the Long-Parliament's Rebellion was Salus Populi the safety of the Nation against a dangerous Conspiracy of Papists and a malignant Party at home and that every man is bound as far as his Power extends to procure the safety of the whole Nation which none but the Army were able to do and the Parliament had hitherto neglected was it not then the Generals duty to do it had he not therefore right for that Law of Salus Populi is directed only to those that have Power enough to defend the People that is to them that have the Supreme Power B. Yes certainly he had as good a Title as the Long-Parliament but the Long-Parliament did represent the People and it seems to me that the Soveraign Power is essentially annexed to the Representative of the People A. Yes if he that makes a Representative that is in the present case the King do call them together to receive the Soveraign Power and he divest himself thereof otherwise not nor was ever the lower house of Parliament the Representative of the whole Nation but of the Commons only nor had that House the Power to oblige by their Acts or Ordinances any Lord or any Priest B. Did Cromwel come in upon the only Title of Salus Populi For this is a Title very few understand A. His way was to get the Supreme Power conferr'd upon him by Parliament therefore he call'd a Parliament and gave it the Supreme Power to the end that they should give it to him again was not this witty First therefore he published a Declaration of the Causes why he dissolv'd the Parliament the sum whereof was That instead of endeavouring to promote the good of Gods people they endeavour'd by a Bill then ready to pas to recruit the House and perpetuate their own Power Next he constituted a Council of State of his own Creatures to be the Supreme Autority of England but no longer than till the next Parliament should be call'd and met Thiâ—dly he summon'd 142 persons such as he himself or his trusty Officers made choice of the greatest part of whom were instructed what to do obscure persons and most of them Phanaticks though stil'd by Cromwel Men of approv'd fidelity and honâ—sty to these the Council of State surrender'd the Supreme Authority and not long after these men surrendred it to Cromwel July the fourth this Parliament met and chose for their Speaker one Mr. Rous and called themselves from that time forward The Parliament of England But Cromwel for the more surety constituted also a Council of State not of such petty Fellows as most of these were but of himself and of his principal Officers These did all the business both publick and private making Ordinances and giving Audience to Foreign Ambassadors But he had now more Enemâ—es than before Harrison who was the Head of the Fifth monarchy-men laying down his Commission did nothing but anâ—mate his Party against him for which afterward he was Imprisoned This little Parliament in the mean time were making of Acts so ridiculous and displeasing to the People that it was thought he chose them on purpose to bring all ruling Parliaments into contempt and Monarchy again into credit B. What Acts were these A. One of them was That all Marriages should be made by a Justice of Peace and the Banes asked three several days in the next Market None were forbidden to be Married by a Minister but without a Justice of Peace the Marriage was to be void so divers wary Couples to be sure of one another howsoever
Authority upon them first A. After the Inundation of Northern People had overflowed the Western Parts of the Empire and possessed themselves of Italy the People of the City of Rome submitted themselves as well in Temporals as Spirituals to their Bishop and then first was the Pope a Temporal Prince and stood no more in so great fear of the Emperors which lived far off at Constantinople In this time it was that the Pope began by pretence of his Power Spiritual to encroach upon the Temporal Rights of all other Princes of the West and so continued gaining upon them till his Power was at the highest in that 300 years or thereabout which passed between the time of Pope Leo the 3. and Pope Innocent the 3. For in this time Pope Zachary 1. deposed Chilperick then King of France and gave the Kingdom to one of his Subjects Pepin And Pepin took from the Lombards a great part of their Territory and gave it to the Church Shortly after the Lombards having recovered their Estate Charles the Great retook it and gave it to the Church again and Pope Leo the 3. made Charles Emperor B. But what Right did the Pope there pretend for the creating of an Emperor A. He pretended the Right of being Christs Vicar and what Christ could give his Vicar might give and you know that Christ was King of all the World B. Yes as God and so he gives all the Kingdoms of the World which nevertheless proceed from the consent of People either for fear or hope A. But this Gift of the Empire was in a more special Manner in such a manner as Moses had the Government of Israel given him or rather as Joshua had it given him to go in and out before the People as the High Priest should direct him and so the Empire was understood to be given him on condition to be directed by the Pope For when the Pope invested him with the Regal Ornaments the People all cryed out Deus dat that is to say 't is God that gives it And from that time all or most of the Christian Kings do put into their Titles the words Dei gratia that is by the gift of God And their Successors use still to receive the Crown and Scepter from a Bishop 'T is certainly a very good Custom for Kings to be put in mind by whose gift they reign but it cannot from that Custom he infer'd that they receive the Kingdom by mediation from the Pope or by any other Clergy For the Popes themselves received the Papacy from the Emperor the first that ever was elected Bishop of Rome after Emperors were Christians and without the Emperors consent executed himself by Letter to the Emperor with this that the People and Clergy of Rome forced him to take it upon him and prayed the Emperor to confirm it which the Emperor did but with Reprehension of their Proceedings and prohibition of the like for the time to come the Emperor was Lotharius and the Pope Calixtus the first A. You see by this the Emperor never acknowledged this gift of God was the gift of the Pope but maintained the Popedom was the gift of the Emperor but in process of time by the negligence of the Emperor for the greatness of Kings makes them that they cannot easily descend into the obscure and narrow Mines of an ambitious Clergy they found means to make the people believe there was a Power in the Pope and Clergy which they ought to submit unto rather than to the Commands of their own King whensoever it should come into Controversy and to that end devised and decreed many new Articles of Faith to the diminution of the Authority of Kings and to the disjunction of them and their Subjects and to a closer adherence of their Subjects to the Church of Rome's Articles either not at all found in or not well founded upon the Scripture as first That it should not be lawful fur a Priest to Marry What influence could that have upon the power of Kings do you not see that by this the King must of necessity either want the Priesthood and therewith a great part of the Reverence due to him from the most Religious part of his Subjects or else want Lawful Heirs to succeed in by which means being not taken for the Head of the Church he was sure in any controversie between him and the Pope that his Subjects would be against him B. Is not a Christian King as much a Bishop now as the Heathen Kings were of old for amongst them Episcopus was a name common to all Kings is not he a Bishop now to whom god hath committed the charge of all the Souls of his Subjects both of the Laity and of the Clergy And though he be in relation to our Saviour who is the chief Pastour of Sheep yet compared to his own Subjects they are all Sheep both Laick and Clergy and he the onely Shepherd and seeing a Christian Bishop is but a Christian endued with power to govern the Clergy it follows that every Christian King is not onely a Bishop but an Archbishop and his whole Kingdom his Diocess And though it were granted that Imposition of hands were necessary for a Priest yet seeing Kings have the power of Government of the Clergy that are the Subjects even before Baptism the Baptism it self where he is received as a Christian is a sufficient Imposition of Hands so that whereas before he was a Bishop now he is a Christian Bishop A. For my part I agree with you this prohibition of Marriage to Priests came in about the time of Pope Gregory the Seventh and William the First King of England by which means the Pope had in England what with Secular and what with Regular Priests a great many lusty Batchelors at his service Secondly that Auricular Confession to a Priest was necessary to Salvation 'T is true that before that time Confession to a Priest was usual and performed for the most part by him that Confessed People And the end which the Pope had in multiplying Sermons was no other but to prop and enlarge his own Authority over all Christian Kings and States B. Within the same time that is between the time of the Emperor Charles the Great and of King Edward the Third of England began their second Policy which was to bring Religion into an Art and thereby to maintain all their Degrees of the Roman Church by Disputation not onely from the Scriptures but also from the Philosophy of Aristotle both Moral and Natural and to that end the Pope exhorted the said Emperor by Letters to erect Schools of all kinds of Literature and from thence began the institution of Universities for not long after the Universities began in Paris and in Oxford It is true that there were Schools in England before that time in several places for the instruction of Children in the Latin Tongue that is to say in the Tongue of the Church but