Churches under him may be provided of good and able Pastors and that both of Pastors and People conformity to Laws and performance of their duties may be required under Penalties not left to discretion but by Law appointed Philal. By the account you have given me of those Divines I am confident they do not unchurch those Churches that will not admit of this Government as highly as they themselves approve of it Theoph. If they should they would be very inconsistent with their own Principles But let me tell you they cannot but look upon it as very desirable that those few Churches that refuse it would receive it upon more accounts than that of its great Antiquity I need not tell you that they moreover believe the Civil Magistrate to have a Power both Legislative and Judiciary as well in Sacred as in Civil Affairs Philal. But this will not be admitted by many Protestants any more than by the Papists themselves Theoph. I know it will not and that some very fiercely talk against it where they think they may do it safely but they bewray too much ignorance in so doing For as the Learned Author of the Ancient Liberty of the Britannick Church hath shewn as Fathers of Families were at first both Princes and Priests and as by the encrease of Families and their enlargement into Cities and Communities the Oeconomick Authority at length became Politick So it is apparant that in the first Institution of Priesthood Moses took away no part of the Supream Jurisdiction from the Politick Authority for he as King of Iesurun was constituted by God himself the Keeper as well of both Trumpets as Tables And as Moses not Aaron delivered the Ceremonial Law so long after Moses King David instituted the Courses of Priests and Solomon thrust out Abiathar the High Priest And when Christ inaugurated his Apostles he furnisht them with great powers of his own such as the Administration of Sacraments and the power of the Keys but all that he bestowed on them he did it Cumulatively and nought at all Privitively for he detracted nothing from the Authority of the Civil Power nor gave any Commandment that Kings because Christians should have their Jurisdiction abated But you may find this Subject excellently and more fully handled in the former part of the Discourse of Ecclesiastical Polity lately publisht Philal. Seeing Theophilus those Divines are of those good Subjects that heartily acknowledge the Kings Majesty to be Supream Governour in these his Dominions in all Causes as well Ecclesiastical as Civil they must needs likewise believe that the Church Government He hath Constituted may not without the guilt of Rebellion be violently opposed or of Sedition be in any kind affronted by any of his Subjects Theoph. You may be assured of it Philalethes of any as well as them that are not next door to Mad-men And these our Friends acknowledge also that it is in the power of the Governours of the Church to Compose Forms of Prayer to be used in Publick and such Rites as they in their Wisdom shall conceive most proper for the decent orderly and Reverend Solemnizing of Divine Worship And that it is the duty of all under their Authority to Submit to the use of such Forms supposing the matter of them be agreeable to the Holy Scriptures and that they are directed onely and immediately to God in the Name of Christ and that they ought to conform to those Rites so long as they are of an indifferent nature and not imposed as necessary in themselves or essential parts of Worship or to recommend the Worshippers to God and make their Service accepted or to convey Grace or as laying an Antecedent Bond upon the Judgment as well as on the Practice but only as things alterable and in their own nature indifferent And such they conceive the Forms of Prayer now enjoyned to be and the other Rites of our Church and to be no otherwise than as such imposed Philal. But do they not likewise hold that Governors are obliged not only to make choice of such Rites as are in their own nature indifferent and to impose them as such but also to beware how they enjoyn any that they are not on good grounds assured are for Edification Theoph. This is out of doubt And I presume they also believe that no Rites may be enjoyned that are known to be but by accident and the infirmity of the people generally inconvenient But yet though Governors should miscarry in the discharge of their duty they question not but that the people are bound to obey them while they command nothing but what is lawful though it should be inconvenient Philal. That Command of the Apostle Obey them that have the Rule over you in the Lord hath no such limitation as this annexed When they command things convenient We are also required to submit to every Ordinance of Man for the Lords sake Whether it be to the King as Supream or unto Governors as those that are sent by him Theoph. Nor ought that limitation to be implyed in these or the like Precepts For that though those that are under Authority ought to judge for themselves what is lawful yet it is most unreasonable that the judgment of what is convenient should not be left to their Governors Philal. Nothing is more apparent than that if the people should have this liberty it would tend to the invalidating of all Laws and utter subversion of Government Theoph. That 's certain Therefore these Divines though they could heartily wish that nothing may be injoyned in the Worship of God among us but what considering the very outward Circumstances we are in may be as expedient as lawful yet they esteem it as unquestionably true that the people ought to obey even in those things that the Magistrate should not command And that a certain duty and such is Obedience to Authority may not be forborn upon uncertain Conjectures or any miscarriage in those to whom they owe it The mischiefs of contending with Governors about supposed inconvenient things being incomparably greater than any that can follow upon obedience in such things Philal. By what you have said I easily guess what Opinion they have of that conceit that hath of late years been broached and practised upon viz. That when the Supream Magistrate refuseth to reform what is amiss in Church or State the Subjects ought to take that work into their own hands Theoph. Do you only guess at it You may be most certain that they judge no Fancy more wild and mad nor of more pernicious Consequence And know also that they profess unfeignedly to believe as well as subscribe to it that it is unlawful for the people to take up Arms against their Prince or those commissionated by Him upon any pretence whatsoever I need not now inform you Philalethes whom by their forementioned Moderation they greatly offend You know that also upon that account
of people of prostituted Consciences let them live never so exactly according to all the notices of Gods will clearly expressed in his Word which as I said those Friends of ours are so far from living in contradiction to that I hear of no clamours against them upon that account which I am confident I should with both ears if any thing of immorality did discover it self in their conversations Philal. But now I think of it don't you believe that there are those Conformable persons that have given too good cause for such a severe Censure Theoph. I don't think that any have done so by their bare Conformity but whereas there are those that in all our Changes have been observed to be zealous still for that which was most countenanced by the Authority that bare the sway and have been taken notice of to leap out of one extreme into another that is from the hight of Fanaticism to that of Conformity these I confess may thank themselvs for the hard words that are heapt upon them but they did not merit them or gave occasion for them by their meer Conforming their former actings might have rendered their Honesty too liable to suspicion though they had never Conformed nor may their doing what is now enjoyned considered as such adde to the suspicion but onely considered as diametrically opposite to former actings And now I have this occasion I must tell you that I know none of our Friends in the number of those that have merited the opprobrious name of Turncoats But under the late Usurpers they did so behave themselvs as that some of them were great Sufferers for his Majestie and the Church and the rest of those I was acquainted with though they were so prudent as to keep as much as they could out of harms way and not to expose themselvs to needless sufferings and such of which there could come no good yet were they no less consciencious and had a care to preserve themselvs unspotted from the guilt of the then wilde extravagances Philal. You have told me no more than I have often before heard but I am glad of its confirmation from your mouth I pray pardon my occasioning so many digressions from the main business and be pleased now again to return to it Theoph. You shall not have my pardon but thanks for the digressions you have occasioned they being none of them I think impertinent To go on then They are not onely not scandalous but very lovely also in their behaviour and greatly obliging I never in any one sort of men observed so much of openheartedness and ingenuity freedom sociableness and affability as in these generally They have nothing of that Crabbed austerity foolish affectation or sullen gravity that render too many of their Censurers to wise men not a little contemptible But as the Pharisees bare our Saviour a grudge upon the account of his being contrary to their humour in this very particular so I have reason to believe that by this means these persons do not a little distaste divers of their Adversaries because they look so unlike them and condemn those their follies by a quite contrary carriage But with any Sarcastical smartness to perstringe those fooleries which some of them have done is looked on as an expression of a profane spirit as if to dislike that which makes Religion ridiculous were to be an enemy to Religion it self Philal. Nay I have thought that there is too much cause to suspect that what they themselvs cannot but acknowledge very commendable in those our Friends is a great motive to them so much the more to traduce them as being jealous that they may thereby gain with many too great esteem For there was one some time since that took occasion to commend a Reverend and most worthy person that is called by the Long name to an eminent Pastor of a Separated Congregation in London from whom he received this answer That Iesus Christ hath not in this Nation a greater enemy and that the goodness of his life was that which put him into a capacity of doing so much the more mischief Theoph. The story you have told me I should have looked upon as not incredible had a less faithworthy person related it than your self For I have often observed that Scandalous Ministers of which there are too many the more is the pity though the number of them is computed by those that gladly take all advantages to bespatter and fling dirt in the faces of their Civil and Ecclesiastical Governours to be far greater than I am verily perswaded it is I say I have often observed that scandalous Ministers have the good luck better to escape the tongues of our Carping people than the most painful and consciencious Philal. Any man may if he will make this observation And truly I have too good reason to fear that not a few of those men are more sorry that all Conforming Ministers are not persons of debauched lives than that any are so for if they hear but an ugly tale of any one of them they never stand to examine whether it be true or false but with great greediness catch at it and send it flying Theoph. Would you have me in the next place to inform you how those Divines in their Pulpits demean themselvs I dare affirm that if our Separating people would be but perswaded to make their own ears judges and for some time deign to be their Auditors if they could also leave all prejudice behinde them they would confess that they cannot in any of their private Meetings at least better spend their time I am sure it must be their own fault if their experience doth not convince them that there are no Preachers by whom they may gain more real profit For none can give their hearers better instructions or back them on with more cogent and effectual motives and arguments than they do I have my self been as constant a hearer of them before I betook my self to this solitary way of living as any man but never was my judgement more convinced my will perswaded nor my affections more powerfully wrought upon by any Sermons than by theirs I found that in their Discourses generally they handled those subjects that are of weightiest and most necessary importance I mean such as have the greatest influence into the reformation of mens lives and purification of their souls Nor had I ever so lovely an idaea of the divine nature which is the most powerful incentive to obedience to the divine will nor so clear a sense of the excellency of the Christian Religion the Reasonableness of its precepts the nobleness and generosity of its designe and its admirable fitness for the accomplishment of it as through the blessing of God I have gained by the hearing of these men Philal. You say Theophilus that you have gained by these men a clearer sense of the Reasonableness of the Gospel-precepts there are many now-a-days
considered the three or four first verses of the 13 th Chapter of Deuteronomy where God by Moses saith thus to the children of Israel If there arise among you a Prophet or a Dreamer of dreams and giveth thee a signe or a wonder and the signe or the wonder come to pass whereof he spake unto thee saying Let us go after other gods and let us serve them thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that Prophet or that Dreamer of dreams for the Lord your God proveth you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul c. Theoph. That place is to very good purpose quoted by you and these two things are plainly to be gathered from it First That we are to consider the Doctrine it self before we believe it to be of God as well as the means of its confirmation Secondly That God for certain Reasons may suffer wonders to be wrought that is such things as no man can give account how they should be effected by natural means for the confirmation of a false Doctrine And you have from thence rationally concluded what I now said viz. That the goodness of the Doctrine is necessary to go along with the consideration of the Miracles whereby it was confirmed to make them such an Argument as we may reasonably desire to induce us to entertain it as coming from God and to receive him as Gods Son that brings it By the goodness of the Doctrine I mean at least its negative goodness and say that we ought to see that there be nothing in it that is plainly unworthy of God to revele or that containeth a manifest contradiction to any of his Attributes but when positive goodness is also therein observable that is a high congruity and agreeableness with the Divine perfections such Doctrines make Miracles a more abundantly strong argument that the Preacher of them is no Impostor but that he came from heaven upon Gods Message Philal. But there are Learned men that distinguishing betwixt Miracles and Wonders assert that the former are sufficient motives of Credibility though not the latter Theoph. Though these two ought to be distinguished yet I conceive that distinction will signifie very little when applyed to this matter For I cannot question but that it may lie within the compass of Evil Spirits power to play such Feats as no mortal man though they should be but Wonders can be sagacious and quick-sighted enough to discern them from real Miracles But when a person doth not onely perform most marveilous works but also delivereth the most excellent doctrine we have the greatest assurance that can be from both together that he came on Gods errand and that the Religion he brought with him hath the Majestie of Heaven for its Author We have reason to be no less assured of it than that God is good it being utterly unconceivable that he should lay before us such an invincible Temptation to believe a Cheat and Falsity Philal. But there are those you know that seem by their discourse to lay no weight either upon the Miracles or excellencie of the Doctrine and are heard to cry up onely the Testimony of the Spirit as an Argument of the truth of Christianity and of the divine Authority of those Books that contain it Theoph. There are so Philalethes but why do they distinguish between Miracles and the Testimony of the Spirit They are one and the same without all doubt for were they not performed by the power of the Holy Ghost And therefore they were his Testimony or attestation to the truth of the Gospel Philal. But they mean an internal Testimony or a secret powerful perswasion wrought immediately in the souls of men by the Holy Ghost Theoph. But those that say that Credit cannot be given to the truth of the Gospel without this make the Devils greater Unbelievers than we are from Scripture assured they are And moreover they seem to me to assert that Christ and his Apostles might have spared their mighty works for who will deny that the Spirits immediate testimony is alone abundantly sufficient for that purpose But besides those that talk thus do apparently run in as gross a Circle as that we accuse the Papists of For as they prove the Scriptures by their Church and their Church by the Scriptures so these prove the Scriptures by this Testimony of the Holy Ghost but then cannot prove so much as that there is any such person but by the Scriptures And once more if there be any truth in this opinion there is nothing to be done for the conviction of Infidels for this internal Testimony can be an Argument to none but those that have it Philal. This I once urged to a certain Divine who stiffly maintained that Conceit and was angry with those that went about to prove the Authority of the Scriptures the other way and he readily replied that he knew no means to be used for the conviction of unbelievers but praying for them Theoph. I commend that Gentlemans ingenuity in that concession but nothing could be said more dishonourable to our excellent Religion or that tends more to expose it to the scorn and contempt of those that bear no good-will to it Philal. But Theophilus do you think then that there is no such thing as this inward Testimony Theoph. All I think as to this matter I will briefly tell you I say that the external and rational Motives of Credibility are as sufficient to give unprejudiced persons an undoubted belief of the truth of our Religion as any rational Arguments are to perswade a man of the truth of any thing he desireth satisfaction concerning But yet because our Grand Adversary useth all Arts to make it as much suspected as may be and to shake our faith therein and we are moreover in regard of the Contrariety of our Religion to our carnal and fleshly interests very apt to be strongly prejudiced against it and we are not easily brought fully to believe what we would not have true God is ready without all question to assist our weakness by his grace and Spirit in this as well as other particulars when humbly sought to but we have no reason to think that he doth this ordinarily in an immediate manner but by blessing the use of means i. e. the consideration of the motives he hath given us to believe And that he confirms our Faith by giving us to see such strongly-convincing demonstration in those Arguments and by so closely applying the evidence of them to our understandings as that they come to be even perfectly over-power'd and against all opposition to have full assent and such as hath a powerful influence upon our practice as it were even forced from them But if all the external motives will not make one sufficient Argument to perswade to assent how could they render the unbelieving Jews inexcusable as our Saviour several times assured them they would
cry up the Four first Oecumenical Councils as our great Standard and assert that their Determinations ought to be by all acquiesced in Theoph. But there are few Controverted Points determined by them what then shall we do as to all other But besides what assurance have we that those Councils ascribed Infallibility to themselves But suppose they did must we believe them infallible upon their own bare word If any will assert so they must prove it except we are bound to believe them as infallible as those Councils and if they undertake to prove this who shall judge whether they do it well or no They must say every man 's own reason or hold their peace and if so then all is at last to be thereinto resolved Nor is it any mens saying that General Councils are infallible that will cause considerative men one jot the sooner to embrace their Decrees unless their understandings be first convinced by a proof of it If any will say that those Councils proved themselves or shall for them go about to prove that they were infallible the same Question recurrs who shall judge whether this be done convincingly And so the matter comes again to the same Issue Philal. But you do not contemn the Authority of those Councils Theoph. I am so far from it that I have a great Veneration both for the Ancient Fathers and all General Councils that have been impartially Called and whose members have been under no restraint but were freely permitted to speak their minds and give their Suffrages but I must tell you that such have been at most very rarely known Yet I will not ascribe more to such neither than I have good reason for much less will I believe them infallible against plain reasons too many to be now given If I could think any so I should be most inclined to believe it of the Great Jewish Sanhedrin because the Jews were expresly Commanded to stand to their Determinations but he that will say that Council could not err must renounce his Christianity and believe that it justly Condemn'd our Saviour Philal. What is the Veneration then that you say you have for those Councils Theoph. I say that we ought rather to suspect our own private Judgments than without very apparent reason to conclude their Determinations false And moreover that it is our duty in order to the preserving of the Churches peace not publickly to oppose them whatsoever opinion we have of them For supposing them obnoxious to errour yet I will grant them to have the Authority of Courts of Appeal and that their Power is so great as to bind men to outward submission when their errours are not so weighty as to preponderate the Churches peace But though we ought for peace-sake to submit to them in all things that are not contrary to the great Essentials of our Faith yet as I said there is no warrant for our being obliged to assent to their Decrees quatenus so as infallibly true But for all this saying neither I nor those friends of ours who are all I believe of the same Judgment in this point do no less value all General Councils then doth our Mother the Church of England as appears by what she saith of them in her 21 Article whose words are these General Councils may not be gathered together without the Commandment and Will of Princes And when they be gathered together forasmuch as they be an Assembly of men whereof all be not governed with the Spirit and Word of God they may erre and sometime have erred even in things pertaining unto God Wherefore things ordained by them as necessary to Salvation have neither Strength nor Authority unless it may be declared that they are taken out of Holy Scripture And it will not be amiss to mind you also that in her 19 Article she declares not onely that the Church of Rome but also that those of Ierusalem Alexandria and Antioch have actually erred By these Citations you will easily guess who are most of the Church of England's Judgment in this Point whether we or those Persons whose talk we but now took notice of and which occasioned this Discourse And the like to what was said of General Councils we also most heartily acknowledge concerning our own particular Church viz. That we are bound by no means to oppose the Determinations of her Governours and Representatives in disputable Matters nor do they as hath been shewn require our internal Assent to their Articles but enjoyn our submission to them as to an Instrument of Peace onely And what wise and good man can think though he should suppose them not only subject to error but likewise to have actually erred in some of them that Contention about them can by any means make amends for the loss of the Churches Peace Philal. It is too apparent that those which contend for an Infallible Judg of Controversies in Religion are like to do no service towards the ending of them but indeed so much disservice as to encrease them Seeing there is nothing more hard to prove than that there is any such Judge and if there be where he is to be found And in the determining of this Controversie the Reason of every mans own mind must be appealed to except there be another Judge to resolve us concerning that Judge and again another to satisfie us concerning him and so we shall never have done And I look upon this as a most certain Argument that our Saviour never intended us any other besides our own Reason assisted with his Blessing for if he had he would no doubt have been so plainly deciphered as that there should be no dispute about him much less would that which was ordained for the Churches Peace be an unavoidable occasion of Contention Theoph. For my part I see no need of any other Judge for the Rule of our Faith the Scripture is in all Essential Points so plain that we can not reasonably desire to have it plainer And moreover in such Points every private honest Christian hath a promise of Infallibility in the same sence that the Church Representative hath If any man will do his Will saith our Saviour he shall know of the Doctrine whether it be of God John 7. 17. If ye continue in my Words then are ye my Disciples indeed and ye shall know the Truth Joh. 8. 31 32. several other promises there are to the same purpose I grant the Church cannot err in Fundamentals while she continues so for should she she would ipso facto cease so to be and therefore the same is to be asserted also concerning every particular Member of it And as for Circumstantials why may not men dispute about them and maintain peace and love notwithstanding What is there in not thinking just alike in doubtful Matters that should make people so much as angry with each other I like not I confess a Disputatious wrangling and