conscience For if so be that the white apparell of the minister haue any force either to moue the people or the minister vnto greater purenes or to any other godlynes whatsoeuer then it is that whych ought to be commaunded and to be obeyed of necessity and to be retained althoughe the contrarye were forbidden And then also if there be a vertue in a white garment and the signification therof be so strong to worke godlynes it were meete that order were taken that the whitest clothe should be bought that it should be often at the least euery weeke once washed by a very good launder and wyth sope for if the white helpe more white helpeth more and that whych is moste white helpeth moste of all to godlynes Although the church haue authoritye to make ceremonies so they be according to the rules before recited of Gods glory and profiting the congregation I coulde for all that neuer yet learne that it had power to giue newe significations as it were to institute newe sacramentes And by this meanes is taken cleane awaye from vs the holde whych we haue against the papistes whereby against all the goodly shewes whych they make by the coloure of these significations we say that the word of God and the sacramentes of baptisme and of the supper of the Lord are sufficient to teache to admonishe and to put vs in remembrance of all duetye whatsoeuer So we are nowe come to the superstition of the Grecians for as they will haue neyther grauen nor carued image in their Churches but painted so we wil nether haue grauen nor carued nor painted but wouē And truely I see no cause why we may not haue as wel holy water holy bread if this reason whych is here be good for I am sure the significations of them are as gloryous as this of the surplice and call to remembraunce as necessarye things And if it be sayde that it maye not be least the number of ceremonies shoulde be to too great it may be easely answeared that these whych we haue may be taken away and those set in place of them And therefore althoughe the surplice haue a blacke spot when it is whitest yet is it not so blacke as you make it wyth your white significations nor the cause so euill as you defend it If you pres me with M. Martyrs and M. Bucers authoritye I first say they were men therefore although otherwise very watchfull yet such as slept some times And then I appeale from their Apocryphas vnto their knowne wrytings and from their priuate letters vnto their publike recordes M. Doctor proceedeth to proue that they are signes and shewes of good and not of euill as the authors of the admonition alleage To the proufe wherof although according to his manner he repeateth diuers things before alleaged yet the summe of all he hath comprehended in an argument whych is that for so muche as the ministers are good whych weare them therfore they are also good and because the ministers whereof the apparell are notes and markes be good therefore those be good notes and good markes so the reason is they are notes and notes of good ministers therefore they be good notes of the ministers So I will proue the names of idolles to be fit and conuenient names for good men to be called by Beltshaser Shaddrake Misacke and Abed-nego were names of Daniell and hys three companions and they were the names of good men therefore they are good names of men And so the names of the Babylonian Idols are by thys reason of M. Doctor iustified to be good names Again the golden calfe was a signe Also it was a signe of the true God therefore it was a true signe of god Concerning the notes of ciuill professions and what difference is betweene those and thys cause I haue spoken before You say the cause of discorde is not in the apparell but in the mindes of men You meane I am sure those that refuse the apparell but if you make them authors of discord because they consent not wyth you in wearing do you not see it is as soone sayde that you are the causers of discorde because you doe not consent wyth those whych were not for as there should be vnitie in that poynte if all did weare that apparell so should there be if all did weare none of it It is a very vnequall comparison that you compare the vse of thys apparell wyth the vse of wine and of a sworde whych are profitable and necessary but it is more intollerable that you match it wyth the word of god I could throwe it as farre downe as you lifte it vp but I will not doe so Thys only I will saye if there were no harme in it and that it were also profitable yet for as much as it is not commaunded of God expresly but a thing as you say indifferent and notwithstanding is cause of so many incommodities and so abused as I haue before declared it ought to be sufficient reason to abolish them seing that the brasen serpent whych was instituted of the Lorde him selfe and contained a profitable remembrance of the wonderfull benefite of God towardes hys people was beaten to pouder when as it began to be an occasion of falling vnto the children of Israel and seeing that S. Paule after the loue feastes whych were kepte at the administration of the Lords supper and were meanes to nourishe loue amongst the churches were abused drawne to an other vse thē they were first ordained did vtterly take them away commaund that they shuld not be vsed any more The rest of that whych followeth in this matter is nothing else but either that whych hath bene often times repeated or else reprochefull words or vniust accusations of contempt of magistrates wythout any proufe at all and therfore are suche as eyther are answered or whych I will not voutchsafe to answere especially seeing that I meane not to giue reproche for reproche and reuiling for reuiling and seeing that I haue before protested of our humble submission and louing feare or reuerence whych we beare to the Prince and those whych are appoynted magistrates vnderneathe her And therfore I will conclude that for so muche as the ceremonies of Antichristianitie are not nor can not be the fittest to sette forthe the gospell and for that they are occasions of fall to some of hinderance to other some of griefe and alienation of mindes vnto others the contrary of all which ought to be considered in establishing of things indifferent in the churche therefore neyther is thys apparell fittest for the minister of the gospell and if it were yet considering the incommodities that come of the vse of it it should be remoued To the next section in the. 62. and. 63. pages YOu know they allow studying for sermones and amplifying and expoūding of the scriptures why then do you aske But by thys question you would haue
good common wealthes wherein many haue lyke power and authoritie And further if because there is one king in a lande aboue all he will conclude there should be one archbyshop ouer all I say as I haue sayde that it is not agaynst any word of God which I know although it be inconuenient but that there may be one Cesar ouer all the world and yet I thinke M. Doctor will not say that there may be one archbyshop ouer all the world Now M. Doctor commeth to hys olde hole where he woulde fayne hyde hym selfe and with hym all the ambition tyranny and excesse of authoritie which is ioyned wyth these functions of archbyshoppe and byshoppe as they are now vsed and thys hys hole is that all the mynisters are equall with byshops and archbyshops as touching the mynisterie of the worde and sacramentes but not as touching pollicie and gouernment The papistes vse the very selfe same distinction for the mayntenance of the Popes tyranny and ambytion and other their hierarchie Maister Doctor hath put out the marke and conceled the name of the papistes and so with a little chaunge of wordes as it were with certayne new coloures he woulde deceiue vs For the papistes saye that euery syr Iohn or hedge priest hath as great authoritie to sacrifice and offer for the quicke and the dead and to mynister the sacramentes as the Pope of Rome hath but for gouernment and for order the byshoppe is aboue a priest the archbyshoppe aboue a byshoppe and the Pope aboue them all But I haue declared before out of the scriptures how vayne a distinction it is and it appeareth out of Cyprian that as all the byshops were equall one to an other so he sayth that to euery one was geuen a portion of the Lordes flocke not only to feede with the worde and sacramentes but to rule and gouerne not as they which shall make any accoumpte vnto an archbyshop or be iudged of hym but as they which can not bee iudged of any but of god And Ierome vpon Titus sayeth that the elder or mynister dyd gouerne and rule in common with the byshops the churche whereof he was elder or mynister After followeth M. Caluin a great patrone forsoth of the archbyshop or of thys kynde of byshop which is vsed amongst vs heere in Englande And heere to passe ouer your straunge cytations and quotations which you make to put your answerer to payne sending hym sometymes to Musculus common places for one sentence to Augustines workes to Chrysostomes workes to Cyrill to Maister Foxe and heere sending hym to the viij chapter of the institutions as though you had neuer red Caluins institutions but tooke the sentence of some bodye else withoute anye examination whereby it seemeth that you were lothe that euer any man should answere your booke letting I say all thys passe what maketh thys eyther to proue that there shoulde bee one archbyshoppe ouer all the mynisters in the prouince or one byshoppe ouer all in the diocese that amongst twelue that were gathered together into one place there was one which ruled the action for which they mette And that it may appeare what superioritie it is which is lawfull amongst the mynisters and what it is that M. Caluin speaketh of what also the fathers and councels doe meane when they geue more to the byshoppe of any one church then to the elder of the same church and that no man be deceiued by the name of gouernoure or ruler ouer the rest to fancie any such authoritie and domination or Lordship as we see vsed in our church it is to be vnderstanded that amongst the pastors elders and deacons of euery particulare church and in the meetinges and companies of the mynisters or elders of dyuers churches there was one chosen by the voyces and suffrages of them all or the most part which did propound the matters that were to be handled whether they were difficulties to be soluted or punishmentes and censures to be decreed vpon those which had faulted or whether there were elections to be made or what other matter so euer occasion was geuen to entreate of the which also gathered the voyces and reasons of those which had interest to speake in such cases whiche also did pronounce according to the number of the voyces whiche were geuen which was also the mouth of the rest to admonishe or to comfort or to rebuke sharply such as were to receiue admonishment consolation or rebuke and which in a worde dyd moderate that whole action which was done for the time they were assembled which thing we do not deny may be but affirme that it is fitte necessary to be to the auoyding of confusion For it were an absurde hearing that many should at once attempt to speake neyther coulde it be done without great reproch that many men beginning to speake some should be bidden to holde their peace which would come to passe if there should be no order kept nor none to appoynt when euery one should speake or not to put them to silence when they attempted confusedly to speake and out of order Moreouer when many ministers mete together and in so great dyuersitie of giftes as the Lorde hath geuen to hys church there be founde that excell in memory facilitie of tong and expedition or quicknesse to dispatche matters more then the rest and therefore it is fitt that the brethren that haue that dexteritie shoulde especially be preferred vnto thys office that the action may be the better and more spedely made an ende of And if any man will call thys a rule or presidentship and hym that executeth thys office a president or moderator or a gouernour we will not striue so that it be with these cautions that he be not called simply gouernor or moderator but gouernor or moderator of that action and for that time and subiect to the orders that others be to be censured by the company of the brethren as wel as others if he be iudged any way faulty And that after that action ended meeting dissolued he sitte hym downe in hys olde place and set hym selfe in equall estate with the rest of the ministers Thirdly that thys gouernment or presidentship or what so euer lyke name you will geue it be not so tyed vnto that minister but that at the next meeting it shall be lawfull to take an other if an other bee thought meeter Of thys order and pollicy of the church if we will see a liuely image and perfect paterne let vs set before our eyes the most auncient and gospel like church that euer was or shall be In the actes the church being gathered together for the election of an Apostle into the place of Iudas the traytor when as the interest of election belonged vnto all and to the apostles especially aboue the rest out of the whole company Peter riseth vp telleth the cause of their comming together with what cautions and qualities they ought to
common wealth vnto the church 181. Drunkardes whoremongers c. papistes are neither of the church nor in the church 50. M. Doctors Clemens counterfait 88. c. Communion receiued by 2. or 3. the rest of the church departing not to be suffered 147. c. Papistes ought not to bee compelled to receiue the Communion of the Lord nor to be admitted if they offer them selues 167. c. Communicants what they be which must of necessitie be examined 164. c. Wherupon the ministring of the Communion in houses to sicke parsons rose 146. c. Common bread most conuenient for the Communion 164. c. Kneeling at the Communion daungerous and not so agreeable to the action of the supper as sitting 165. c Confirmation of children ought to be taken away 199. D  Deacons ordayning with vs in part examined 39 Deacons were in euery church 190. c. Deacons office is only in prouiding for the poore of the church 190. Deacons office perpetuall 191. Deacons may not preach nor baptise 161. DecoÌ„sh is no ordinary step to the ministery 163 Deanes in times past how much they differed from ours now 96. Disciplyne and gouernment of the church â—â—â— matters of fayth and saluation 26 Discipline standeth in 3. principall partes 183. Dyonisius Areopagita no archb but bish 91. M. doctors Dyonisius a counterfait 188 E  Elders in euery congregation in the Apostles times 173. c Elders necessary in euery churche of the causes of their office 175. c. Elders in euery church alwayes necessary but especially in the time of peace vnder a christen magistrate 178. c. Eldership was kept in the church vnder christian Emperors in the time of peace 182. Eldership fel out of the church through slouthfulnes ambition of the Doctors 182. Election of the ministers ought to bee by the church 44. c Pretended differences to alter the manner of election of the mynisters vsed in the primatiue church answered 49. c Election and ordination differ 58. c Euangelists no ordinary ministers 63. c. Excommunication doth not belong to one maÌ„ but vnto the church and especially to the minister and elders therof 184. c. F  Standing lawes of fasting brought in first by the hereticke Montanus 30. Augustines and Ambroses corrupt iudgement of fasting 30. G  We haue more certaine direction by the gospel in the whole seruice of God then the Iewes had by the lawe 35. c. Greater seuerity ought to be vsed against sins and especially against idolatry vnder the gospel then vnder the law 42. c There ought to be no more standing at the reading of the gospell theÌ„ at the reading of other scriptures 203 Churche Gouernment compounded of all the good formes of gouernment 51. H  The churches authoritye in makyng of Holy dayes 151. c Of the Apostles and saints dayes 152. c. Of homilyes reading in the church 81. 196. c I.  Iames no archbyshop but a byshop by Eusebius iudgement 91. There ought to be no more curtesy at the name of Iesus then at the other names of God. 203. M  Abuses in the celebration of maryage 196. c. Metropolitane byshop what that the name implieth no supertoritye 93. Metropolitanes very pore 108. 94. Ministers lordship one ouer an other eyther in office or name forbidden 22. c In what sorte and howe farre ministers are superiors one ouer another 109. c The cause of want of ministers with vs. 40. c. Ministers reuolting to idolatrye oughte not to be receiued againe to the ministery 40. Ministers may not exercise ciuill offices 206. O  Officials iurisdiction vnlawfull 188. c. Ordination and election differ 58. c. Receiue the holy ghost an vnlawfull speache of the B. in ordaining ministers 62. c. P  Parishes not deuided by Denis the Monke but by the word of God. 69. Prayers not only in matter but also in forme ought to belike the prayers of the scripture 138 Particulare faultes in oure forme of Common prayer 136. c The name of Priest cannot agree vnto the minister of the gospell 198. Prophet no ordinary minister 63. c R  Reading is not preaching 160 Reading preaching the word compared 159 Residence or abiding in one certain place required of al ordinary ecclesiastical ministeries 60 Residence continuall and necessary of the minister in hys church 65. c S  Sacramentes oughte to be ministred after the word is preached 157. Sacramentes vnlawfully ministred in priuate houses 28. 142. c Scripture containing the direction of al things pertaining to the churche and of whatsoeuer things can fall into any part of mans life 26 Scriptures Canonicall ought only to be red in the church 196. c Singing of Psalmes in the church side by side corrupt 203. T  Theodoret a pore Metropolitane 115. Timotheus and Titus by the iudgement of the Scholiaste byshops 91. but in deede Euangelists 65 Aug. iudgement of traditions very corrupt 31 VV  Widowes in the churche to helpe the sicke and impotent in it 191 Women may not minister baptisme and howe this corruption came into the church 143. c Womens churching corrupt 150 ⧠To the Church of England and ALL THOSE THAT LOVE THE TRVETH IN IT T. C. wisheth mercy and peace from God our father and from our Lord Iesus Christ AS our men do more willingly go to warfare and fyght with greater courage agaynst straungers then agaynst theyr countreymen so it is with me in thys spirituall warfare For I would haue wyshed that thys controuersy had bene with the Papystes or with other if any can be more pestylent and professed ennemyes of the church for that should haue bene les griefe to wryte and more conuement to perswade that which I desire For as the very name of an ennemy doth kyndle the desire of fyghting and stirreth vp the care of preparing the furniture for the warre So I can not tell how it commeth to passe that the name of a brother staketh that courage and abateth that carefulnes which should be bestowed in desence of the truth But seeing the truth ought not to be forsaken for any mans cause I enforced my selfe considering that if the Lord myght lay it to my charge that I was not for certayne considerations so ready as I ought to haue bene to publyshe the truth he myght more iustly condemne me if being oppugned and slaundered by others I should not according to that measure which he hath dealte vnto me and for my small habylitie defend it and delyuer it from the euill report that some endeuor to bring vpon it And as vnto other partes of the gospell so sone as the Lord openeth a dore for them to enter in there is for the most part great resistance so in thys part concerning the gouernment and dyscipline of the church which is the order which God hath left as well to make the doctryne
cause In the. 240. page he reasoneth thus that the surplice c. be notes and notes of good ministers therefore they be good notes of ministers which is a fallacion of compositiō when a man thinketh that whatsoeuer is sayd of a thing by it selfe may be sayd of it when it is ioyned with an other In the. 149. page he reasoneth thus those which authorised the booke of Common prayer were studious of peace building the churche therefore those which finde fault with it are pullers downe of the church and disturbers of the peace which is a fallacion of the Accident when a man thinketh that euery thing which is verified of the Subiect may be likewise verefied of that which is annexed vnto it The further confutation of which arguments I refer vnto their places There be diuers other which he hath which are so farre from iust conclusions as they haue not so muche as any colour of likelyhode of argument which I can not tell where to lodge vnles I put them in the common Inne which is that which is called the ignorance of the Elench as in the. 69. page when he concludeth thus that Cyprian speaketh not of the bishop of Rome ergo he speaketh of an archbyshop And in the. 71. page There must be superioures ergo one minister must be superiour vnto an other There must be degrees therfore there must be one archbyshop ouer a prouince And in the. 73. there was one ouer euery congregation therefore there was one ouer all the ministers in the prouince These and a number like vnto these M. Doctor hath scattered throughout his boke which as Nero sayd of his master Senecas works cleaue together like sand thus let it be sene whose arguments are most iustly concluded those of the admonition or these of M. Doctors An answere to the exhortation to the eyuill Magistrates IT is more thē I thought could haue hapned vnto you once to admit into your mynde thys opinion of Anabaptisme of your brethren which haue alwayes had it in as great detestatiō as your selfe preached against it as much as your selfe hated of the folowers fauourers of it as much as your selfe And it is yet more strange that you haue not doubted to geue out such slaunderous reports of them but dare to present such accusations to the holy and sacred seat of iustice thereby so much as in you lyeth to corrupt it to call for the sword vpon the innocent which is geuen for their mayntenance and safetie that as it is a boldnes vntollerable so could I hardly haue thought that it could haue fallen into any that had caryed but the countenaunce and name of a professor of the gospell much les of a doctor of dyuinitie Before you will ioyne with vs in this cause you wil place vs whether we wil or no in the campe of the Anabaptistes to the ende you myght thereby bothe withdraw all from ayding vs which are godly minded as for the you fearing as it semeth the insufficiencie of your pen myght haue the sword to supply your want other wayes And if we be found in theyr campe or be such disturbers of the quiet estate of the church defacers of such as be in authoritie maintayners of licenciousnes and lewde lybertie as you do seme to charge vs with we refuse not to go vnder those punishmentes that some of that wicked sect receiued for iust recompence of their demerites You say you will not accuse any I know it is for want of no good wil that you do not accuse them of whose condemnation and extreame punishment we myght be sure if your hand were as strong as your hart But you suspect the authors of the admonition and their fautors * Charitie is not suspitious Let vs therefore see whether there be iust matter to beare out and to vphold this suspition You wil beare men in hand that if we be not already full Anabaptistes yet we are in the way thither the footesteps whereby you trace vs must be considered To the first article It is all true you here alleage of the Anabaptistes God be praysed there is nothing of it true in vs If through these questions moued the church be disquieted the disquietnes riseth in that the truth and sinceritie which is offered is not receyued VVe seeke it in no tumultuous manner but by humble sute vnto them to whome the redresse of thinges pertayne and by teaching as our callinges wil suffer If all those are to be counted in the way to Anabaptisme which moue controuersies when the gospell is preached Then those that taught that the Gentilles were to be preached vnto when as the most of the beleuing Iewes which likewise preached the gospell thought otherwise are to be counted in the way to Anabaptisme Likewise those that preached that circumcision was not necessary vnto saluation when as a great number of Christians at the first thought it necessary Then maister Zuinglius Oecolampadius smelled of Anabaptisme which went about to ouerthrow dyuerse things which maister Luther helde I could goe further with thys but I content my selfe wyth these examples If any be brought in doubt or hatred of the truth hereby or any man take occasion to be contentious it is not in the nature of the doctrine which is taught but in the corruption of their myndes nor it is not offence geuen but taken nor thys doctryne can be no more charged then the rest of the gospell which is a * sworde that cutteth a citie or kingdome in sunder and setteth a * fire where there was none and putteth contention betwene the father and the sonne But what is to geue an incurable offence vnto the simple and matter to the enemie to reioyce in to all good Christyans of teares and weeping if thys be not to make the world thinke that numbers of those which professe the gospell are infected wyth the poison of Anabaptisme whych can not be touched wyth the smallest poynt of it As for the magistrate and authority we acknowledge the lawfulnes necessity and singular commodity of it we commēd it in our sermons to others we pray for them as for those of whose good or euill estate hangeth the flourishing or decay of the common wealth and church both We loue them as our fathers and mothers we feare them as our Lords and maisters and we obay thē in the Lord and for the lord If there be any thyng wherin we do not according to that which is commaunded it is because we can not be persuaded in our consciences that we may so doe wherof we are ready to render a reason out of the word of God and if that wil not serue forthwith to submit our selues to that punishment that shall be awarded against vs And herein we first cal the Lord God to witnes of our meaning and then we referre our selues to the consciences of all men in the sight of God. To the second Article There
oute any wythout good cause that then the Magistrates shoulde compell the churches to doe their duetye In deede the byshop of Rome gaue the election then into the Emperoure hys handes because of the lyghtnesse of the people as Platina maketh mention but that is not the matter for I do nothing else heere but shew that the elections of the ministers by the Church were vsed in the times of the Emperoures and by their consentes and seeing that Otho confessed it pertayned not vnto him it is to be doubted whether he tooke it at the Bishop his handes And if the Emperoures permitted the election of the byshop to that Citie where it made most for their suertie to haue one of their owne appoyntment as was Rome which with their byshoppes dyd often tymes put the good Emperoures to trouble it is to be thought that in other places both Cities townes they dyd not deny the elections of the ministers to the people Besides that certayne of those constitutions are not of Rome but of any citie whatsoeuer And these Emperoures were and lyued betweene 500. and odde yeares vntill the very poynt of a thousande yeares after Christ so that hyther to thys lyberty was not gone out of the Church albeit the Pope which brought in all tyranny and went about to take all libertie from the churches was now on horse backe had placed hym selfe in that Antichristian seate To the next section in the 45. THose that write the Centuries suspect thys Canon and doubt whether it be a bastarde or no considering the practise of the church But heere or euer you were aware you haue striken at your selfe For before you sayde that thys order of chusing the minister by voyces of the church was but in the Apostles tyme and duryng the time of persecution And the first time you can alledge thys libertie to be taken awaye was in the 334. yeare of our Lorde which was at the least 31. yeares after that Constantine the great began to raigne I say at the least because there be good authors that say that thys Councell of Laodicea was holden Anno. 338. after the death of Iouinian the Emperoure and so there is 35. yeares betweene the beginning of Constantines raigne and thys councel Now I thinke you will not say that the Church was vnder persecution in Cōstantines tyme And therfore you see you are greatly deceiued in your accoumpt And if it be as lawfull for vs to vse maister Caluins authoritie which both by example and wrytings hath alwayes defended our cause as it is for you to wryng him and his wordes to things which he neuer meant and the contrary wherof he continually practised then thys authoritie of youres is dashed For maister Caluin sayth where as it is sayd in that councel that the election should not be permitted to the people it meaneth nothing else but that they should make no election without hauing some ministers or men of iudgement to direct them in their election and to gather their voyces and prouyde that nothing be done tumultuously euen as Paule and Barnabas were cheefe in the election of the churches And euen the same order woulde we haue kepte in elections continually for auoyding of confusion for as we would haue the libertie of the Church preserued which Christ hath bought so dearely from all tyranny so do we agayne condemne and vtterly abhorre all barbarous confusion and disorder But if councelles be of so great authoritie to decide thys controuersy then the most famous councell of Nice will strike a great stroke with you which in an Epistle that it wryteth vnto the Church of Egipt as Theodoret maketh mention speaketh thus It is meete that you should haue power both to chuse any man and to geue their names which are worthy to be amongst the clergye and to doe all things absolutely according to the law and decrees of the churche And if it happen any to dye in the churche then those which were last taken are to be promoted to the honor of him that is dead with thys condition if they be worthy and the people chuse them and the bishop of the citie of Alexandria together geuing his consent and appoynting them An other of the famousest councelles called the councell of Constantinople which was gathered vnder Theodosius the great as it is witnessed by the * Tripartite storie in an Epistle which it wrote to Damasus the pope and Ambrose and others sayth thus We haue ordayned Nectarius the byshoppe of Constantinople with the whole consent of the counsell in the sight of the Emperour Theodosius beloued of God the whole Citie together decreeing the same Likewise he sayth that Flauian was appoynted by that synode byshop of Antioche the whole people appoynting him Likewise in the councell of Carthage where Augustine was holden about anno domini 400. in the first canon of the councell it is sayde when hee hath bene examyned in all these and founde fully instructed then let hym be ordayned Byshop by the common consent of the clarkes and the lay people and the Byshoppes of the prouince and especially eyther by the authoritie or presence of the metropolitane And in the Toletane councell as it appeareth in the 51. distinction it was thus ordayned Let not hym be counted a priest of the Churche for so they speake whome neyther the clergye nor people of that citie where he is a priest doth chuse nor the consent of the metropolitane other priests in that prouince hath sought after Moreouer concilium Cabilonense which was holden anno domini 650. in the tenth Canon hath thys If any Bishop after the death of hys predecessor be chosen of any but of the byshops in the same prouince and of the cleargie citizens let an other be chosen and if it be otherwise let that ordination be accompted of none effect All which councelles proue manifestly that as the people in their elections had the ministers rounde about or synodes counceiles directing them so there was none came to be ouer the people but by their voyces or consentes To the next section in the 45. page Thys alteration c. IN deede if you put such darke coleures vpon the Apostles church as thys is it is no maruell if it ought not to be a patrone to vs of framing and fashioning our church after it But O Lord who can paciently heare thys horrible disorder ascribed to the Apostles church which heere you attribute vnto it that euery one hand ouer head preached baptised and expounded the Scriptures VVhat a window nay what a gate is opened heere to Anabaptistes to confirme their fantasticall opynion wherin they holde that euery man whome the spirite moueth may come euen from the ploughe taile to the pulpit to preache the worde of god If you say it is Ambrose saying and not youres I answere vnlesse you allow it why bring you it and that to proue the difference betwene the Apostles times and these
hand as fast as you builde with the other But to answere directly to the place of the fifthe of the first to Timothe I saye first that S. Paule wryteth to Timothe and therefore instructeth hym what he should do for his parte in the appoynting of the minister If he had written to the whole Churche of Ephesus he would lykewise haue instructed them how they should haue behaued thē selues in that businesse If one do wryte vnto hys frende that hath interest in any election to take heede that he chuse none but such as are meete shall any man conclude therupon that none hath to doe in that election but he to whom that letter is writtē Then I say further that S. Paule attributeth that vnto Timothe that was common to moe with hym because he being the director and moderator of the election is sayde to doe that whiche many doe which thing I haue proued by dyuers examples both out of the scripture and otherwise before And euen in this imposition of handes it is manifestly to be shewed For that where as S. Paule sayth in the 2. Epistle that Timothe was ordayned by the putting on of hys hands vppon hym in the first Epistle he sayth that he was ordayned by the putting on of the handes of the eldership So that that which he in one place taketh to him selfe alone in the other he communicateth with moe And that he dyd it not him selfe alone it may appeare by those wordes which folow and communicate not with other mens sinnes as if he should saye if other will ordeyne insuffycient ministers yet be not thou caryed away with their example And further that his authoritie was equall with other elders of that church and that he had no superioritie aboue his fellowes it may appeare for that he sayth lay thy hands rashly of none where if he had had authoritie ouer the rest he would rather haue sayd suffer none to lay his handes rashly Agayne it is a fault in you that you can not distinguishe or put difference betweene the election and imposition of handes Last of all I answere that although this might agree to Timothe alone as in deede it can not yet it followeth not that euery Bishop may do so For Timothe was an Euangelist which was aboue a Bishop as hereafter shall better appeare And it is an euill argument to say the greater may do it therfore the lesse may do it The superiour therfore the inferioure If you were at any cost with producing your witnesses you should not be so vnwise to be so lauishe of them as to cite Ambrose and Chrisostome to proue a thing that none hath euer denyed For who denyeth that S. Paule doth not geue warning to Timothe to be circumspect If you meane to vse their testimonie to proue that he only made the elections they saye neuer a word for you if there be any thing cite it To the place of Titus I answere as to that of Timothe for there is nothing there but agreeth also to thys place And as for Ierome he hath nothing in that place as he hath in no other to proue that to the Bishop only doth belong the right of election of the minister I haue shewed you reasons before why it cā not be so taken of the sole election of the Bishop the church being shutte out If authoritie woulde doe any good in thys behalfe as it seemeth it ought seeing that all your proofe throughe out the whole booke is in the authorities of men which Aristotle calleth atechnas peiseis vncunning proofes I coulde sende you to maister Calum which teacheth that it is not to be thought that S. Paule woulde permit to Titus to ordayne byshoppes and ministers by hys owne authoritie when he hym selfe would not take so much vpon hym but ioyned hys with the voyces of the church But he peraduenture sauoureth not your tast and yet you woulde make men beleue sometimes that you make muche of hym if you can gette but one worde vnioynted and racked in peeces from the rest to make good your part If hee weyghe not with you you haue maister Musculus whome you take to bee a great patrone of youres in thys cause which dothe with greater vehemencie affirme the same thing that mayster Caluin sayth asking whether any man can beleeue that Paisle permitted in thys place to Titus or in the place before alledged to Timothe that they shoulde ordayne of theyr owne authoritie and by them selues when as Paule woulde not doe it but by the voyces and election of the churche In the ende you say it is the generall consent of all the learned fathers that it belongeth to the byshop to chuse the minister Because you acquaint my eares with such bolde and vntrue affirmations I can now the more paciently heare you thus vaunting your selfe as though you had all the fathers by heart and caryed them about with you wheresoeuer you went whereas if a man woulde measure you by the skill in them which you haue shewed heere he woulde hardly beleeue that you had redde the tenthe part of them Are all the learned fathers of that mynde I thinke then you would haue bene better aduised then to haue sette downe but one when as you know a matter in controuersie will not be tryed but by two or three witnesses vnlesse the Lord speake hym selfe and therefore you geue me occasion to suspect that because you cite but one you know of no more now let vs see what your one witnesse will depose in thys matter And fyrst of all you haue done more wisely then simply in that you haue altered Ieromes wordes For where hee sayeth wherein doth a byshoppe differ from an elder but only in ordayning you say a byshop doth excell all other mynisters c. I report me heere vnto your conscience whether you dyd not of purpose chaunge Ieromes hys sentēce because you wold not let the reader vnderstand what oddes is betweene S. Ieromes bishops in his dayes betwene our Lord Bishoppes For then the byshop had nothing aboue an elder or other minister but only the ordayning of the minister Now he hath a thousande parishes where the minister hath but one For the matters also of the substaunce of the ministerie the bishop now excommunicateth which the minister can not absolueth or receyueth into the church which the minister can not Besides diuers other things which are meere ciuill which the byshop doth and which neither byshop nor other minister ought to doe I say I reporte me to your conscience whether you altered Ieromes wordes to thys ende that you would keepe thys from the knowledge of your reader or no. For answere to the place it is an euill argument to saye the byshop had the ordayning of the minister Ergo he had the election of hym the contrary rather is a good argument the byshop had the ordayning of the minister therefore he had not the election of hym For ordination
seuered from other men by any note of apparell You say you knowe that the cheefe notes of a minister are doctrine and learning if you meane that the distinction of apparell must supply the rest and that that also hath some force to commend their ministery the prophets and apostles of our sauior Christe left vs no perfect paterne of a minister nor no sufficient glas to dres him by wherof the moste parte neuer vsed any suche seuerall apparell and none of them haue left any commaundement of it For want of store and to make a long boke heere is S. Iohns miter rehearsed thrise in one leafe to the same purpose and in the same wordes And because it was not enough that M. Bullinger and M. Martyr should speake of them you haue preuented them both least you shuld haue semed to haue brought nothing If this be not Coleworts twise sodden I can not tell what is You aske whether the christian magistrate may enioyne a seuerall kinde of apparell to the ministers Either the cause is too weake whych you defende or else it hath gotten an euill patron whych would so gladly shift it and chaunge it with an other For this is an other question which you speake of For although that be graunted vnto you whych you demaunde yet you can not conclude your cause For all be it the magistrate may commaunde a seuerall apparell yet it foloweth not that he may commaund this kinde of popishe apparell and therefore what manner of argument is this of youres the magistrate maye commaunde a seuerall apparell therfore he may commaunde this The colledge walles will tell you that a man can not conclude from the whole to the parte affirmatiuely So you see I might let you fish and catch nothing but I am neyther afrayde nor ashamed to tell you the truth of that you aske so farreforth at least as I am perswaded I thincke therefore it may be such a kinde of apparell as the magistrate commaunding it the minister may refuse it and such it may be as he may not refuse it But whatsoeuer apparell it be this commaundement can not be without some iniury done to the minister For seeing that the magistrate doth allow of him as of a wise learned and discrete man and trusteth him with the gouernement of his people in matters betwene God and them it were somewhat harde not to trust him with the appoynting of his owne apparell and he is probably to be supposed that he hath discretion to weare his owne geare comely and in order that is able to teach others how they should weare theirs and that he should be able to doe that by his wisdome and learning that others do without learning and great store of wisedome that he should keepe order and decencie in apparel which hath learned in the schole of Christ which they doe that had neuer other scholemaster then common sense and reason And if any minister be founde to fault in going either dissolutely or to exquisitely and delicately then the Magistrate may punishe him according to the disorder wherein he faulteth And whereas you would proue that it may be done with the ministers as it is done with Iudges sergeants Aldermen and Sheriffes the case is not like For as for these which be in office their robes and gownes may as their maces swordes somewhat helpe to set forth the maiestie and moderate pompe which is meete for the offices of iustice which they execute and consequently to helpe to strike a profitable feare into their heartes which are vnderneath them which hath nor can haue no place in the minister whose authoritie and power as it is not outwarde so can it not nor ought not to borow any credite of these externall shewes And the Magistrate or the Citie may seeke some honor of the citizens mustering as it were by numbers in one liuerie which ought not to be loked for at the ministers hand because he honoureth and serueth the magistrate an other way nor can not also considering that they are scattered through all the land in euery towne one or not so many as being put in one liuery would make any great shew to the honor commendation of the towne or citie where they remaine And so you see your question answered whereby appeareth they are subiectes as other are and to obay also sometimes where the commaundement is not geuen vpon good grounds The place of Theodoret cited of M. Bullinger maketh mention of a golden cope and that vsed by byshops of Ierusalem and solde by Cyrill a good bishop whereby he declared sufficiently his misliking of such garments in the ministerie of the sacramentes In the place the which hee citeth out of Socrates there is one Sycinius an Nouatian bishop which is sayd to haue worne white apparell and therefore is reprehended as for to muche exquisitenesse finenesse of apparell the B. of Duresine in a letter he wrote alledgeth the same place agaynst the surplice A man would hardly beleue that maister Bullinger shoulde vse these places to proue a distinction of apparell amongst the ministers We are not ignorant but that a cloke hath bene vsed of the ministers in theyr seruice but that was no seuerall apparell of the ministers but common to all the Christians which with change of their religion changed also their apparell as appeareth manifestly in Tertullian de pallio As for the Petalum that S. Iohn ware I see not how it can bee proued to be like a bishops miter For the cap that S. Cyprian gaue the executioner argueth rather that it was the commō apparell which was customably worne for else it would not haue done him so much good As for his vpper garment which hee gaue to hys deacon it was a token of his good will which he would leaue with him as the practise hath bene seene with vs and proueth nothing that it was any seuerall apparell As for the white linnen garment which he suffered in it can not seme strange vnto vs which haue sene the holy martyrs of the Lord executed in Smithfield and other places And it is not to be thought that S. Cyprian had so small iudgement that lyuing in the time of persecution he would by wearing of some notable apparell from the rest as it weare betray him selfe into the handes of his enemies vnles all the christians had done so too for clearer and more open profession of theyr fayth and greater detestation of the contrary religion as Tertullian and the christians in his time did by the wearing of a cloke which reason may be also alledged of the Petalum of S. Iohn It is true Chrysostome maketh mention of a white garment but not in commendation of it but rather to the contrary For he sheweth that the dignitie of their ministerie their safetie and crowne was in taking heede that none vnmeete were admitted to the Lordes supper not in going about the church with a white garment And
it is easely to be seene by * Salomon in his Ecclesiastes that to weare a white garment was greatly estemed in the East partes and was ordinarie to those that were in any estimation as the wearing of blacke with vs and therfore was no seuerall apparell for the ministers or for to execute their ministerie in The reasons that M. Peter Martyr vseth are the same before and how he hath also condemned them it shall appeare with M. Bucers iudgement of these thinges in the ende of the booke As for Eustathius his depriuation because he did not weare apparel meete for a minister it maketh not to this purpose one whit For I haue shewed that if any minister go like a ruffian or swashe buckler or in the brauerie of a courtier that it is meete he should be punished according to the quaintitie of the fault And that it is so to be vnderstāded it appeareth manifestly by the councell of Gangris which did therfore confirme the same deposing because he ware a stranger apparell the habite of a Philosopher caused all his fellowes to do so Therfore I maruell what you meane to alledge this place It is also alledged of * Nicephorus in neither of the places there is any Eustathius the sonne of Eustathius but of Eulabius or as Nicephorus readeth Eulalius And therfore your conclusion is both vntrue vncertaine that since the Apostles times there hath bene a distinct seuerall apparell of the ministers from the rest The matter lyeth not in that whether these things were first muented by papistes or being deuised of others were after taken by the papists but the matter standeth in this that they haue bene vsed of the papists as notes markes and sacraments of their abhominations As for Augustin hys place it is to be vnderstanded of such things as haue a necessary vse and therefore may not be taken away from vs by the superstition of men For so we might also be depriued of the sunne which is as it were the life of the world because the sinme hath bene worshipped But that S. Augustin did not like of this kinde of retayning ceremonies it may * appeare Do you aske sayth he how the Paganes may be wonne how they may be brought to saluation forsake their solemnities let goe their toyes and then if they gree not vnto our truth let them be ashamed of their fewnesse whereby he sheweth that the nearest way to gaine the papistes is to forsake their Ceremonies And yet I would be loth to say eyther with you or with Augustin that it is not lawfull for a man to make of a popishe surplice a shirt for him selfe or to take the gold of a cope which he hath bought conuert it to his priuate vse And herein we do nothing disagree with S. Augustin which graunt that surplices and copes and rippets and cappes may be applyed to a good vse eyther common or priuate as they wil best serue but wee deny that that vse is in distinguishing eyther the ministers from other men or the ministers executing their ecclesiasticall function from themselues when they doe not exercise that office To all these things that M. Martyr reckeneth vp of reuenues and wages verses wine bread oyle water whych being consecrated vnto Idols are well vsed Tertullian answeareth in the same boke whereout a numbre of these are taken when he sayth that we ought to admit a participation of those things whych bring either a necessity or profite in the vse of them but we deny that these things thus vsed are either necessary or profitable And therfore in stead of temples tithes wine c. if you woulde haue matched the surplice well you shoulde haue sayd sensors tapers holy bread holy water and such like It is true that M. Bucer sayeth that it is not in the nature of any creature to be a note of Antichrist but yet followeth not therof that the creature that hathe bene accidentally through abuse applied to idolatry may be forthwith vsed as we shall thinke good For neither the idolles of the Gentiles nor the corruptions of those which offered had power to make the beefe or mutton that was offered no good and holesome meate for the sustenaunce of man neither cause that a Christian man coulde not eate them as beefe and mutton but yet either to eate it at the table of idolles before them or else priuately in hys owne house when there was anye weake by that thoughte it an abhominable thing was not lawfull and yet the meate neuertheles the good creature of God and whych might be receiued wyth thankes giuing so the abuse of the surplice and coape c. can not cause but that they may be vsed as clothe and silke And wheras he sayeth that they are chaunged and made of notes of Antichristianitie markes of Christianitie I say that they can not be chaunged so by any decree or commaundement for as much as notwithstanding that profession of chaunge the heartes of men vnto whych euery man must haue regarde vnto are not chaunged For not so soone as the magistrate will saye that these thyngs shall be from henceforthe vsed as things indifferent forthwyth men doe vse them so but those only vse them so whych haue knowledge both the ignorant and the weake take them stil otherwise The rest of those things whych M. Bucer and those whych M. Bullinger and Gualter bring are all of that sorte wherevnto answere is made Only this they adde that if the people do abuse and peruert these ceremonies they oughte to be better instructed whych is a counsell not so conuenient that the ministers and pastors whych haue so many necessary poynts to bestowe their time on and to informe the people of should be driuen to cutte of their time appoynted thereto to teache them not to abuse these things which if they vse neuer so well they can gaine nothing and to take heede that they hurte not them selues at those things whych in their best estate do no good especially when one sermon of the taking of them away ioyned wyth authoritie to execute it may do more good then a thousand sermons wythout authoritie Besides that it is absurde that ceremonies whych ought to be helpers to promote the doctrine shoulde become lets and hinderances whilest the minister is occupied in teaching to beware of the abuse of them and of superstition And it is as muche as if one should be set to watche a childe all day long least he hurt him selfe wyth the knife when as by taking away the knife quite from hym the daunger is auoided and the seruice of the man better employed And so it foloweth that althoughe the churche may appoynt ceremonies and rites yet it can not appoynte these that haue great incommoditye and no commoditie great offence and no edifying And althoughe they haue all these properties whych you recite yet if they be not to edifying if not to God hys glorye if
of the Pope of Rome as it is for M. doctor Whitgift to alledge the. 25. 26. 27. to proue the name of archbyshop archdeacon patriarke for they are all of one stampe and haue lyke authoritie I feare greatly some craftye dissembling papist had hys hand in this boke who hauing a great deale of rotten stuffe whych he coulde not vtter vnder hys owne name being already lost brought it vnto the author heereof whych hath vpon his credite without further examination set it to sale Peraduenture you will thinke scorne to be censured and reprehended of a poore minister of the countrey and therfore I will turne you ouer for your lesson in thys behalfe vnto the bishop of Salisburie in hys Replie against M. Harding touching the article of the supremacie If all shoulde be allowed of that S. Ambrose alloweth of then besides other things whych he holdeth corruptly the marriage of the ministers should go very hard But it is worthy to be obserued wyth what words Amb. doth allowe of the archbishop that all men may vnderstande howe lowe it goeth wyth M. Doctor for his defence of the archbishop and howe the archbishop is so out of credite that there can not be gotten any to be surety for hys honesty Ambrose complaining of the ministers or bishops in those dayes sayeth it a man aske them who preferred them to be priestes answere is made by and by that the archbyshop for an hundreth shillings ordained me bishop to whome I gaue a hundreth shillings that I might get the fauor to be bishop whych if I had not giuen I had not bene byshop And afterward he sayeth that this greeued him that the archbyshop ordained byshops carnally or for some carnall respecte And thys is all the allowance that Ambrose sheweth of an archbyshoppe Your archbishop taketh all things in good parte so that his very dispraise he expoundeth to hys commendation And there is great likelyhode that the archbyshop whych Ambrose maketh mention of was no other then he whych for the time ruled the action wherin byshops were ordained and after the action ended had no more authoritye then the rest And I am moued so to thincke First because it is not like that one only ordained byshops being contrary to the olde Canons of the best councelles but that there were other and that thys whome Ambrose calleth archbyshop dyd gather the voyces c. Secondly because it was very vnlike that there was any absolutely aboue S. Ambrose in those partes where he complaineth of euill byshops or ministers made Thirdly for that Ambrose in an other place whych you after cite deuiding all the church into the cleargye and laitye dothe subdeuide the cleargy into bishops elders and deacons and therfore it is not like that there was any which had any continuall function of archbyshop But as he was called choregos or leader of the dauÌ„ce whych commeth first and after comming in againe in the second or third place is no more so called so that byshop was called archbyshop whych for the time present did gather the voyces of the rest of the byshoppes whych he by by layde downe wyth the dissoluing of the meeting And that this is not my coniecture only that there was no ordinarye or absolute archbyshop let the Centuries be seene whych alledge that place of Ambrose to proue that the office of an archbishop was not then come into the church whych was 400 yeares after Christ and more also Basile you say the greate Metropolitane of Cappadocia I haue shewed what the worde metropolitane signifieth and howe there was not then suche a metropolitane as we haue now and as the admonition speaketh against You play as he which is noted as none of the wisest amongst the marchants which thought that euery shyp that approched the hauen was his shippe for so you thinke that wheresoeuer you reade metropolitane or archbyshop forthwith you thinke there is your metropolitane or your archbyshop whereas it shall appeare that besides the name they are no more like then a byshop wyth vs is like a minister I can not tell whether you would abuse your reader heere wyth the fallacion of the accent because thys worde Great is so placed betweene Basile and metropolitane that it may be as wel referred to the metropolitane as to Bastle and so you hauing put no comma it seemeth you had as lâ—eue haue your reader read great metropolitane as great Basil But that the simpler sort be not deceiued therby it is not out of the way to let the reader vnderstand what a great metropolitane thys was whych * appeareth for that when he was threatned by the magistrate confiscation of hys goodes answeared that he was not afraid of the threatnings and that all hys goodes were a very few bokes and an olde gowne suche were then those Metropolitanes vnder whose shadowes M. Doctor goeth aboute to shroude all this pompe and princely magnificence of oure archbyshoppes As for Simeon archbyshop of Seleucia I will not deny but at that time was the name of archbyshops for then Sathan had made throughe the titles of archbishop primate patriarch as it were three stayers wherby antichrist might clime vp into hys curssed seate Notwithstanding there wanted not good decrees of godly councelles whych did strike at these proude names and went aboute to keepe them downe but the swelling waters of the ambition of diuers coulde not by any bankes be kept in whych hauing once broken oute in certaine places afterwardes couered almost the face of the whole earthe This endeuoure of godly men may appeare in the councell of Carthage whych decreed that the bishop of the first seat shoulde not be called exarchon ton hieron e akron ierea e toiouton tipore that is either the chefe of the priestes or the high priest or any such thing by whych wordes any such thing he shutteth out the name of archbyshop and all such hautie titles The same decree also was made in the Affricane councell and if you saye that it was made against the Pope of Rome or to forbid that any man should be called archbyshop shewe me where there was either byshop of Rome or any other that euer made any suche title or chalenge to be the generall byshop of all at that time when this councell of Carthage was holden when as the first of those whych did make any suche chalenge was the byshop of Constantinople whych notwithstanding chalenged not the preheminence first ouer all but that he might ordaine byshoppes of Asia Pontus Thracia whych were before appoynted by their Sinodes and thys was in the councell of Chalcedon whych was long after that councell of Carthage before remembred For to proue the lawfulnesse of the name of an archdeacon the antiquitye the necessitye of it the testimonies of foure are broughte which neither speake of their lawfulnes nor of their necessity and they say not in deede so muche as God saue them and two of these
chuse an other conceyueth the prayer wherby the helpe of God in that election and his direction is begged and no doubt executed the residue of the things which pertayned vnto the whole action In the seconde of the actes all the Apostles are accused of drunkennesse Peter answeareth for thē all wypeth away the infamy they were charged with But you will say where are the voyces of the rest which did chuse Peter vnto thys First you must know that the scripture setteth not downe euery circumstāce then surely you do Peter great iniury that aske whether he were chosen vnto it For is it to bee thought that Peter would thrust in hym selfe to this office or dignitie without the consent and allowance of hys fellowes and preuent hys fellowes of thys preheminence vndoubtedly if it hadde not beene done arrogantly yet it must needes haue a great shew of arrogancye if hee hadde done thys without the consent of hys fellowes And heere you shall heare what the Scholiast sayth which gathereth the iudgement of Greke diuines hora speaking of Peter panta meta koines auton gnomes poiounta Behold how he doth all with their common consent And if any man hereupon will say that Peter exercised domination ouer the rest or gate any archapostleship beside that the whole story of the actes of the apostles and his whole course of life doth refute that the same Scholiast which I made mention of in the same place sayth he did nothing archikos imperiously nothing meta exousias with domynion or power Further I will admonishe him to take heede least if he striue so sore for the archbyshop he slide or euer he be aware into the tentes of the papistes which vse these places to proue that Peter had authoritie and rule ouer the rest of the apostles And that it may bee vnderstanded that thys moderate rule voyde of all pompe and outward shew was not perpetuall nor alwayes tyed vnto one man which were the last poyntes of the cautions I put before turne vnto the 15. of the Actes where is shewed how with the rest of the church the apostles and amongst them Peter being assembled to decide a great controuersie Iames the Apostle and not Peter moderated and gouerned the whole action when as after other had sayd their iudgementes and namely Paule and Barnabas Peter he in the ende in the name of all pronounced the sentence and that whereof the rest agreed and had disputed vnto and the residue rested in that iudgement the which also may likewyse appeare in the 21. of the Actes This is hee which is called the byshop in euery church thys is he also whome Iustin wherof mention is made afterwardes calleth proestos And finally thys is that great archbishoppricke and great bishoppricke that M. Doctor so often stumbleth on This order and preheminence the Apostles time and those that were neare them kept and the nearer they came to the apostles times the nearer they kept them to this order and the farther of they were from those times vntill the discouering of the sonne of perdition the further of were they from thys moderation and nearer to that tyranny and ambitious power which oppressed and ouerlayde the churche of God. And therefore maister Caluin doth warely say that one amongst the apostles indefinitely not any one singular person as Peter had the moderation and rule of the other and further shadoweth out what rule that was by the example of the consul of Rome whose authoritie was to gather the senate together to tell of the matters which were to be handled to gather the voyces to pronounce the sentence And although the Antichrist of Rome had peruerted all good order and taken all libertie of the church into hys the Cardinalles Archbishops and Byshoppes handes yet there are some colde and lyght footinges of it in our synodes which are holden with the parliament where amongst all the mynisters which are assembled out of all the whole realme by the more part of voyces one to chosen which should goe before the rest propounde the causes gather the voyces and bee as it were the mouth of the whole company whome they terme the prolocutor Suche great force hath the truthe that in the vtter ruines of Popery it could neuer be so pulled vp by the rootes that a man coulde neuer know the place thereof no more or that it shoulde not leaue suche markes and printes behinde it whereby it myght afterwardes recouer it selfe and come agayne to the knowledge of men Now you see what authoritie we allow amongst the ministers both in their seuerall churches or in prouinciall sinodes or nationall or generall or what so euer other meetinges shall be aduised of for the profite and edifying of the church and withall you see that as we are farre from thys tyranny and excessiue power which now is in the church so we are by the grace of God as farre from confusion and disorder wherein you trauell so much to make vs to seeme giltie M. Doctor reasoneth agayne that Paule an Apostle and in the highest degree of ministerie was superior to Timothe and Titus Euangelistes and so in a lower degree of mynisterie therefore one mynister is superior to an other one byshop to an other byshop whych are all one office and one function As if I shuld say my Lord Mayor of London is aboue the sherifes therfore one sherife is superior to an other Again an other argumēt he hath of the same strēgth Titus being an Euangelist was superior to al the pastors in Crete which was a degree vnder the Euangelists therfore one pastor must be superior vnto an other pastor And that he was superior he proueth because he had authority to ordaine pastors so that the print of the archbyshop is so deepely set in his head that hereof he can imagine nothing but that Titus shuld be archbishop of all Crete I haue shewed before how these words are to be taken of S. Paule and for so much as M. Doctor burdeneth vs wyth the authority of Caluin so often I wil send him to Caluins owne interpretation vpon this place wher he sheweth the Titus did not ordaine by his owne authority for s. Paul wold not graunt Titus leaue to do that whych he him self wold not and sheweth that to say that Titus should make the election of pastors by him selfe is to giue vnto hym a princely authority and to take away the election from the church and the iudgement of the insufficiency of the minister from the company of the pastors whych were sayeth he to prophane the whole gouernment of the church I maruell therfore what M. doctor meaneth to be so busy wyth M. Caluin and to seke confirmation of his archbyshop and byshop at him whych wold haue shaken at the naming of the one and trembled at the office of the other onles it be because he would faine haue hys plaister where he receiued hys wound but I dare assure him
Egipt cryed in the councell of Calcedon that he was no bishop it is to be obserued that which the Emperoures Theodosius and Valentinian wryte vnto Dioscorus bishop of Alexandria that he had commaunded Theodoret byshop of Cyrus that he should kepe hym selfe vnto hys owne church only wherby it appeareth that he medled in moe churches then was mete he should Besides that wanteth not suspition the he speaketh this of him selfe especially when he sayth the there was not in all those 800. churches one tare the is one hypocrite or euil maÌ„ Now that it may appeare what great lykelyhoode there is betwene thys Theodoret and our Lord byshops and archbyshops it is to be considered which he wryteth of hym selfe in the Epistle vnto Leo that is that he hauing bene 26. yeares byshop was knowne of all that dwelt in those partes that he had neuer house of hys owne nor field nor halfepennie not so much as a place to be buryed in but had willingly contented hym selfe with a poore estate belyke he had a very leane archbyshoppricke And if the fat morsels of our byshopprickes archbishopprickes were taken employed to their vses of maintenance of the pore of the mynisters and of the vniuersities which are the seede of the mynisterie I thincke the heate of the disputation and contention for archbyshops and bishops would be cooled Now good reader thou hearest what M. Doctor hath bene able to take together out of the olde fathers which he sayth are so playne in thys matter and yet can shew nothing to the purpose Heare also what he sayth out of the wryters of our age all which he sayth except one or two are of hys iudgement and allow well of thys distinction of degrees Maister Caluin first is cited to proue those offices of archbyshop primate patriarche the names whereof he can not abyde and as for hym he approueth only that there should be some â–ª which when difficult causes arise which can not bee ended in the particulare churches might referre the matters to sinodes and prouinciall councels and which myght do the offices which I haue spoken of before of gathering voyces c. But that he lyketh not of those dominations and large iurisdictions or at all of the byshoppes or archbyshops which we haue now it may appeare playnly enough both in that place when as he will haue hys wordes drawen to no other then the olde byshoppes shutting out thereby the byshoppes that now are as also in other places and namely vpon the Philippians where reasoning agaynst thys distinction betwene pastor and byshop and shewing that geuing the name of byshop to one man only in a church was the occasion why he afterward vsurped domynation ouer the rest he sayth after thys sort In deede I graunt sayth he as the dispositions and manners of men are order can not stande amongst the mynisters of the woorde vnlesse one be ouer the rest I meane sayth he of euery seuerall and singuler body not of a whole prouince much lesse of the whole worlde Now if you will needes haue M. Caluins archbyshop you must not haue hym neyther ouer a prouince nor diocese but only ouer one singuler and particuler congregation How much better therefore were it for you to seeke some other shelter against the storme then maister Caluins which will not suffer you by any meanes to couer your selfe vnder hys winges but thrusteth you out alwayes as soone as you enter vpon him forceably But heere I can not let passe M. Doctors ill dealing which recyting so much of maister Caluin cutteth hym of in the waste and leaueth quite out that which made agaynst hym that is which maister Caluin â—ayth in these wordes Although sayth he in thys disputacion it may not be passed ouer that this office of archbyshop or patriarke was most rarely and seldome vsed which dealing semeth to proceede of a very euill conscience Then followeth Hemingius who you say approueth these degrees of archbishop metropolitane byshop archdeacon for so you must needes meane when you say he approueth these degrees or els you say nothing for there vpon is the question Now how vntruely you speake let it be iudged by that which followeth * First he sayth that our sauiour Christ in S. Luke distinguisheth and putteth a difference betwene the office of a Prince and the office of the minister of the church leauing domynion to the Princes and taking it altogether from the mynisters Here you see not only how he is agaynst you in your exposition in the place of S. Luke which wold haue it nothing else but a prohibition of ambitioÌ„ but also how at a word he cutteth the throte of your archbyshop and byshop as it is now vsed And afterward speaking of the churches of Denmarke he sayth they haue Christ for their head for the outwarde discipline they haue magistrates to punish with the sword for to exercise the Ecclesiasticall disciplyne they haue bishops pastors doctors which may keepe men vnder with the word without vsing any corporall punishment Here is no mention of archbyshops Primates metropolitanes And although he sheweth that they kepe the distinction betwene byshops and ministers against whych there hath bene before spoken yet he sayth that the authority which they haue is as the authority of a father not as the power of a maister whych is far otherwise heere For the condition of many seruaunts vnder their maisters is much more free then the condition of a minister vnder hys byshop And afterward he sheweth wherin that authority or dignity of the byshop ouer the minister lyeth that is in exhorting of him in chiding of hym as he doth the lay people and yet he will haue also the minister although not with such authority after a modest sort to do the same vnto the byshop And so he concludeth that they retain these orders notwithstanding the anabaptists Now let the reader iudge whether Hemingius be truely or faithfully alledged or no or whether Hemingius do say that they haue in their church archbishops primates metropolitanes archdeacons or whether the byshops in the churches of Denmarke are any thing like oures For I will omit that he speaketh there against all pomp in the ministery all worldly superiority or highnes because I loue not to wryte out whole pages as M. Doctor doth out of other mens wrytings to helpe to make vp a boke M. doctor closeth vp this matter wyth M. Foxe but eyther for feare that the place should be found that there might be answer or for feare that M. Foxe should giue me the solution whych hath giuen you the obiection he wold neither quote the place of the boke nor the boke it self he hauing wrytten diuers You caÌ„ not speake so much good of M. Foxe whych I will not willingly subscribe vnto And if it be any declaration of good will and of honor that one beareth to an other to read that whych he wryteth I thinke I haue
and yet then there being no christian magistrate whych woulde punishe the disorders whych were committed of the christian byshops there was greatest neede that there shoulde haue bene some one whych might haue had the correction of the rest If therefore when there was moste neede of thys absolute authoritie there neyther was nor myght be anye suche it followeth that nowe we haue a Christian magistrate whych maye and oughte to punishe the disorders of all Ecclesiasticall persons and may and ought to call them to accoumpt for their faultes that there shoulde be no suche neede of an archbyshop The moderation of their authority in the auncient times may appeare first by a Canon whych is falsly geuen to the apostles being as it is like a Canon of the councell of Antioche wherin although it ordaineth one primate in euery nation ouer the rest and will not suffer any great matter to be done wythout him as also will not suffer him to do any thing wythout the rest yet euery B. might do that whych appertained vnto hys own parish wythout hym and he nothing to do wyth hym in it But as it seemeth the meaning of the Canon was that if there were any waighty matter to be concluded for all the churches in the natiō then the byshops of euery parish should not enterprise any thing without calling hym to counsell Now we see that the archb medleth with that whych euery byshop doth in hys owne diocese and hath hys visitations for that purpose will take any matter out of their hands concludeth also of diuers matters neuer making the byshops once priuy to hys doings Higinus or as some thincke Pelagius I speake heere as Platina reporteth not thincking that in Higinus time there was any Metropolitane ordained that no Metropolitane should condemne any byshop onles the matter were first bothe harde and discussed by the byshoppes of that prouince at what time and after a great while a bishop was the same we cal a minister Now the archbyshop will wythout any further assistance or discussion by others suspend hym and in the ende also throwe him oute of hys charge and if he haue the same authority ouer a byshop as a byshop ouer the minister as it is sayd he may do the like vnto hym also The councell of Antioche ordained that if the voyces of the byshops were euen and that if halfe did condemne hym and halfe cleare hym that then the metropolitane byshop shoulde call of the nexte prouince some other byshops whych should make an end of the controuersy Wherby appeareth that the Metropolitane had so small authority and power ouer and aboue the rest that he had not so much as the casting voyce when bothe sides were euen and therefore it appeareth that besides the names of metropolitane there was little or no resemblance betweene those that were then and those whych be now Now to consider how the byshops whych are now differ from the byshops whych were in times past I must call to thy remembrance gentle reader that whych I haue spoken before which was that then there was as appeareth out of Cyprian and Ierome and others one byshop in euery parishe or congregation nowe one is ouer a thousande then euery byshop had a seuerall church where he preached and ministred the sacraments nowe he hath none then he ruled that one churche as I shewed oute of Ierome in common wyth the Elders of the same nowe he ruleth a thousande by hym selfe shutting oute the ministers to whome the rule and gouernement belongeth then he ordained not any minister of the churche except he were first chosen by the presbiterie and approued by the people of that place wherevnto he was ordained nowe he ordaineth where there is no place voyde and of hys priuate authority wythout either choise or approbation of presbyterie or people then he excommunicated not nor receiued the excōmunicated but by sentences of the eldership and consent of the people as shall appeare afterward nowe he dothe bothe And thus you see that contrary to the woorde of God he hathe gotten into hys owne hande and pulled to him selfe bothe the preheminence of the other ministers and the liberties of the church whych God by his word had geuen And as for the offices wherein there is any laboure or trauaile those they haue turned vnto the other ministers as for example in times past it was not lawfull for hym that was then an elder to preache or minister the sacraments in the presence of the byshop because the bishop him selfe should do it and now those which they call elders may preach and minister the sacraments by the byshops good licence although he be present Now if you will also consider how much the Lordship pompe and statelines of the byshops in our dayes differ from the simplicity of them in times past I will geue you also a taste thereof if first of all I shewe the beginning or as it were the fountaine wherevpon the pompe grewe whych was when in steade of hauing a byshop in euery parishe and congregation they began to make a bishop of a whole diocese and of a thousand congregations In an epistle of ʒacharie vnto Pope Boniface it is thus wrytten it hath bene oftentimes decreed that there shoulde not be a byshop appoynted in euerye village or little citie least they should waxe vile through the multitude whereby it bothe appeareth that there was wonte to be a byshop in euery parishe and vpon howe corrupte and euill consideration one byshoppe was sette ouer a whole diocese No doubte those that were authoures of thys had learned too well our olde prouerb the fewer the better cheare but the more byshops the meryer it had bene wyth Gods people And they might wyth as good reason hinder the sunne from shining in al places the raine from falling vpon al grounds for feare they should not be set by being common as to bring in such a wicked decree wherby vnder pretence of deliuering the byshop from contempt they sought nothing else but an ambitious and stately Lordshyp ouer those whych had not that title of bishop that they had althoughe they did the office of a byshop better then they dyd And what intollerable presumption is thys to chaunge the institution of God as though he whych ordained not one only but some nomber more or les of byshops in euery church did not sufficiently foresee that the multitude and plentye of byshops coulde breede no contempt of the office And it may be as well ordained that the children of pore men shoulde not call them that begate them fathers and mothers but only the childrē of the rich and of noble least that if euery man that hathe children shoulde be called a father fathers should be sette nothyng by And heere let vs obserue by what degrees and staires Sathan lifted the childe of perdition vnto that proude title of vniuersall byshop First where the Lorde did ordaine that
let him as though there were some variance betwene the people and the minister or as though he were afraide of some infection of plage And in dede it renueth the memory of the Leuitical priesthode whych did withdrawe himselfe from the people into the place called the holyest place where he talked wyth God and offered for the sinnes of the people Likewise for Mariage he cometh backe againe into the body of the church and for baptisme vnto the church dore what comelines what decency what edifying is thys Decencie I say in running and trudging from place to place edifying in standing in that place and after that sort where he can worst be harde and vnderstanded S. Luke sheweth that in the primitiue church both the prayers and preachings and the whole exercise of religion was done otherwyse For he sheweth howe S. Peter sitting amongste the rest to the ende he myght be the better heard rose not that only but that he stode in the midst of the people that his voyce might as much as might be come indifferently to all their eares and so standing both prayed and preached Now if it be said for the chapters Letany there is commaundement geuen that they shuld be red in the body of the church in deede it is true and therof is easely perceiued this disorder whych is in saying the rest of the prayers partly in the hither end and partly in the further end of the chauncell For seeing that those are red in the body of the church that the people may both heare and vnderstand what is red what shuld be the cause why the rest should be red farther of vnles it be that either those things are not to be heard of them or at the least not so necessary for them to be heard as the other whych are recited in the body or midst of the church And if it be further sayd that the boke leaueth that to the discretion of the ordinarye and that he may reforme it if there be any thing amis then it is easely answered again that besides that it is against reason that the commoditye and edifying of the church should depende vpon the pleasure of one man so that vpon hys eyther good or euill aduise and discretion it should be well or euell wyth the church Besides this I say we see by experience of the disorders whych are in many churches and dioceses in thys behalfe how that if it were lawfull to commit such authority vnto one man yet that it is not safe so to doe considering that they haue so euill quitten them selues in their charges and that in a matter the inconuenience wherof being so easely sene and so easely reformed there is notwythstanding so greate and so generall an abuse And the end of the order in the boke is to be obserued which is to kepe the praiers in the accustomed place of the church chappell or chauncell whych how maketh it to edification And thus for the generall faultes committed either in the whole Liturgy or in the most part of it both that I may haue no nede to repete the same in the particulares and that I be not compelled alwayes to enter a new disputation so ofte as M. Doctor sayeth very vnskilfully and vnlike a deuine whence so euer thys or that come so it be not euill it may be well established in the church of Christ Nowe I come to the forme of prayer whych is prescribed wherin the authors of the admonition declare that their meaning is not to disalow of prescript seruice of prayer but of thys forme that we haue For they expound themselues in the additions vnto the first part of the admonition It is not to any purpose that M. Doctor setteth himselfe to proue that there may be a prescript order of prayer by Iustine Martyrs testimony which notwithstanding hath not one word of prescript forme of prayers only he sayth there were prayers He sayth in dede the auncient fathers say that there hathe bene alwayes such kinde of prayers in the churches although they do say so yet all men may vnderstand easely that M. doctor speaketh thys rather by coniecture or that he hath heard other mē say so for so much as that Doctor whych he hathe chosen out to speake for all the rest hath no such thing as he fathereth on him He sayeth that after they haue baptised they pray for them selues for hym that is baptised and for all men that they may be mete to learne the truth and to expres it in their honest conuersation and that they be found to kepe the commaundements that they may attaine to eternal life but is this to say the there was a prescript forme of prayer when he sheweth nothing els but the chefe poynts vpon the whych they conceiued their prayers If you had alleaged thys to proue what were the matters or principall poyntes that the primitiue church vsed to pray for you had alleaged thys to purpose but to alleage it for a profe of a prescript forme of prayer when there is not there mētioned so much as the essentiall forme of prayer whych is the asking of our petitions in the name and through the intercession of our sauior Christ without the whych there is not nor cannot be any prayer argueth that either you litle know what the forme of prayer is or that you thought as you charge the authors of the admonition so often that this geare of yours should neuer haue come to the examination But for as muche as we agree of a prescript forme of prayer to be vsed in the church let that go thys that I haue sayd is to shew that when M. Doctor hapneth of a good cause whych is very seldome in this boke yet then he marreth it in the handling After he affirmeth that there can be nothing shewed in the whole boke whych is not agreeable vnto the word of God. I am very lothe to enter into this field albeit M. Doctor dothe thus prouoke me bothe because the Papistes will lightly take occasion of euill speaking when they vnderstand that we do not agree amongst our selues in euery poynte as for that some fewe professors of the gospell being priuate men boldened vpon such treatises take such wayes sometimes and breake forth into such speaches as are not meete nor conuenient Notwythstanding my duetie of defending the truthe and loue whych I haue first towardes God and then towards my countrey constraineth me being thus prouoked to speake a fewe woordes more particularly of the fourme of prayer that when the blemishes thereof doe appeare it may please the Queenes maiestie and her honourable Councell wyth those of the Parliamente whome the Lorde hathe vsed as singulare instrumentes to deliuer thys realme from the hotte furnaice and iron yoke of the popishe Egipte to procure also that the corruptions whych we haue broughte from them as those wysh whych we being so deepely dide and stained haue not so easely shaken
thys poynt and in stead that the Lord sayth sixe dayes thou mayst labor if thou wilt to say thou shalt not labor sixe dayes I do not see why the church may not as well wheras the Lord sayth thou shalt rest the seuenth day commaunde that thou shalt not rest the seuenth day For if the church may restraine the liberty that God hath geuen thē it may take away the yoke also that God hath put vpon them And whereas you say in the. 173. page that notwithstanding thys fourthe commaundement the Iewes had certaine other feastes whych they obserued in deede the Lord whych gaue thys generall law might make as many exceptions as he thought good and so long as he thought good But it foloweth not because the Lord did it that therfore the church may do it vnles it hath commaundemēt and authority from God so to do As when there is any generall plague or iudgement of God either vpon the churche or comming towardes it the Lorde commaundeth in suche a case that they should sanctifie a generall fast and proclaime ghnatsarah whych signifieth a prohibition or forbidding of ordinary works and is the same Hebrewe word wherwyth those feastes dayes are noted in the lawe wherin they shuld rest The reason of whych commaūdement of the Lord was that as they abstained that day as much as might be conueniently from meat so they might abstaine from their daily workes to the ende they might bestowe the whole day in hearing the word of God and humbling themselues in the congregation confessing their faultes and desiring the Lorde to turne away from hys fearce wrathe In thys case the churche hauing commaundement to make a holy day may and ought to do it as the church which was in Babilon did during the time of their captiuity but where it is destitute of a commaundement it may not presume by any decree to restraine that liberty whych the Lord hath geuen Nowe that I haue spoken generally of holy dayes I come vnto the apostles and other saints dayes whych are kept wyth vs And thoughe it were lawfull for the church to ordaine holy dayes to our sauioure Christe or to the blessed Trinity yet it is not therfore lawfull to institute holy dayes to the apostles and other saintes or to their remembrance For although I confes as muche as you say in the. 153. page that the church of England doth not meane by thys keping of holy dayes that the saintes shoulde be honoured or as you alledge in the. 175. and. 176. pages that wyth vs the saints are not prayed vnto or that it doth propoūd them as meritorious yet that is not enough For as we reason against the popish purgatorie that it is therfore naught for as much as neyther in the olde Testament nor in the newe there is any mention of prayer at any time for the dead so may it be reasoned against these holy dayes ordained for the remēbrance of the saintes that for so much as the old people dyd neuer keepe any feast or holy day for the remembrance eyther of Moses or Daniel or Iob or Abraham or Dauid or any other how holy or excellent so euer they were nor the apostles nor the churches in their time neuer instituted any eyther to kepe the remembrance of Stephen or of the virgin Mary or of Iohn Baptist or of any other notable and rare personage that the instituting and erecting of them nowe and thys attempt by the churches whych folowed whych haue not such certen and vndoubted interpreaters of the will of God as the prophets and apostles were whych lyued in those churches is not wythout some note of presumption for that it vndertaketh those thyngs whych the primitiue churche in the apostles times hauing greater giftes of the spirite of God then they that folowed them had durste not venter vpon Moreouer I haue shewed before what force the name of euery thyng hath to cause men to thynke so of euery thyng as it is named and therfore although you say in the. 175. page that in calling these holy dayes the dayes of suche or such a Sainte there is nothyng else meante but that the Scriptures whych are that day red concerne that saynte and contayne eyther hys callyng preachyng persecution martyrdom c. yet euery one doth not vnderstand so much For besides that the corrupt custome of popery hath caryed theyr mindes to an other interpretation the very name and appellation of the day teacheth otherwise For seing that the dayes dedicated to the Trinity and those that are consecrate to our sauior Christ are in that they be called Trinity day or the Natiuity day of our sauior Christ by and by taken to be instituted to the honor of our sauyor Christe and of the Trinity so lykewyse the people when it is called S. Paules day or the blessed virgin Maryes day can vnderstand nothing therby but that they are instituted to the honor of S. Paule or of the virgin Mary vnles they be otherwyse taught And if you say let them so be taught I haue answeared that the teaching in thys lande can not by any order whych is yet taken come to the moste parte of those whych haue drunke thys poyson and where it is taught it were good that the names were abolyshed that they should not helpe to vnteach that whych the preaching teacheth in thys behalfe Furthermore seeing the holy dayes be ceremonies of the church I see not why we may not heere renue Augustines complaint that the estate of the Iewes was more tollerable then oures is I speake in thys poynt of holy dayes for if their holy dayes and oures be accompted we shall be foūd to haue more then double as many holy dayes as they had And as for all the commodityes whych we receiue by them whereby M. doctor goeth about to proue the goodnes and lawfulnes of their institution as that the scriptures are there red and expounded the patience of those saintes in their persecution and Martyrdome is to the edifying of the church remembred and yearely renewed I say that we myght haue all those commodities wythout all those dangers whych I haue spoken of wythout any keping of yearely memory of those sayntes and as it falleth out in better and more profitable sorte For as I sayd before of the keping of Easter that it tyeth and as it were fettereth a meditation of the Easter to a fewe dayes whych should reache to all our age and time of oure lyfe so those celebrations of the memories of saintes and martyrs streighten our consideration of them vnto those dayes whych should continually be thought of daily as long as we liue And if that it be thoughte so good and profitable a thyng that thys remembrance of them should be vpon those dayes wherin they are supposed to haue dyed yet it foloweth not therefore that after thys remembrance is celebrated by hearing the scriptures concerning them and prayers made to folowe their
and that the mynister made prayers and thankes geuing in the hearing of the people which is that which the Euangelistes call the blessing and hath bene of later tymes called the consecration and after that the people were partakers of them that then thys being done the deacons dyd cary of that which was left vnto those which were not present for that corruption of sending the communion vnto the houses was then in the churche agaynst which I haue before spoken now if to cary to a priuate house the breade and wyne which was blessed or set a part by prayers by obeying the institution of Christ by the mynister be to mynister the sacrament of the supper then Serapions boye of whome mention is made by Eusebius mynistred the sacrament For Serapion being sicke as I haue before shewed and sending hys boye to the mynister for the sacrament receiued the same at the handes of hys boye for that the mynister being sicke could not come hym selfe so by M. Doctors reason Serapions boye mynistred the sacrament And a man would not thinke that one that hath bene the Quenes Maiesties publike professor of diuinitie in Cambridge should not know to distinguish put a difference betwene mynistring the sacrament helping to distribute the bread and the cup of the sacrament And if M. Doctor could not learne thys in bokes yet he might haue eyther sene it or at least heard tell of it in all the reformed churches almost where the Deacons doe assist the mynister in helping of hym to distribute the cuppe and in some places also the bread for the quicker and spedyer dispatch of the people being so many in number that if they should all receiue the bread and the cuppe at the mynisters hand they should not make an end in eight houres which by that assistance may be finished in two which is tha◠that M. Caluin sayth For he sayth the Deacons dyd reach the cup maketh no mention of the bread And if thys be to mynister the sacrament then they that cut the loafe in peeces they that fetch the wine for the supper they that poure it forth from greater vessels into glasses and cuppes or whosoeuer aydeth any thing in thys action doe mynister the sacrament then the which thing there can be nothing more ridyculous In the ende M. Doctor to shut vp thys matter sayth that it is the first steppe to the mynistery and so ioyned of S. Paule in the third chapter and first Epistle to Timothe But what a reason is thys to be a Deacon is the first step to the mynistery therefore the Deacon may preach and mynister the sacraments when as the contrary rather followeth For if it be a step to the mynistery then it is not the mynistery but differeth from it and so ought not to doe the things that belong to the mynister But I deny that it is or ought to be alwayes a steppe to the mynistery I knew that it hath bene the vse of long tyme I know also that there be very many which interpreate the place of S. Paule where he speaking of the Deacons that behaue them selues well that they get them selues a good bathmon that is a degree to be a mynister or a byshop But I will shew a manifest reason why it can not so be vnderstanded which is for that as the functions of a Deacon or a mynister are dyuers so are the giftes also wherby those functions are executed likewyse dyuers And therefore there may be some men for their wisedome and grauitie discretion and faythfulnesse and whatsoeuer other giftes are required in hym that shoulde doe thys office of prouyding for the poore and to be a good Deacon which notwithstanding for some impediment in hys tongue or for want of vtterance shall neuer be able as long as he lyueth to be a good mynister of the word and therefore the giftes being dyuers wherewith those offices must be executed although it is neyther vnlawfull nor vnmeete to make of a Deacon a mynister if he haue giftes for that purpose yet I deny that S. Paule appoynteth that the Deaconship shoulde be as it were the seede or frie of the mynisters or that he meaneth by those words that the Deaconship is a steppe to the pastorshyp Which may yet also further appeare by the phrase of speach which the Apostle vseth For he doth not say that they that do the office of Deaconship well shall come to or get a good standing but he sayth that in so doing they doe gette themselues a good standing that is they get themselues authoritie estimation in the church whereby they may be both the bolder to doe their office and whereby they may doe it with more frute Whereas when they liue naughtely they neyther dare doe oftentimes that which they should doe nor yet that which they doe well taketh so good effect because of the discredite which commeth by their euill behauiour And so I conclude that M. Doctor hath brought hetherto nothing to proue why either Deacōs ought or else haue wont eyther to preach or to mynister the sacramentes And albeit M. Doctor be not able to shew it yet I confes that it hath bene in tymes past permitted vnto them in some churches to baptise in other some to preach and baptise and sometymes also to mynister the supper but I say also that thys was a corruption and vsed at those tymes when there were many other grose vntollerable abuses from the which I doe appeale vnto that which was first that is the institution of the Apostles which lymitted and bounded euery function within hys seuerall limites and borders which it ought not to passe Vnto the three next sections contayned in the. 94. 95. and a peece of the. 96. pages touching that which is called the introite and fragments of the Epistles and Gospels and the rehersall of the Nicene Crede I haue declared before the causes of our mislyking neyther meane I to stand to refute the slaunderous surmises which M. D. rayseth of the authors of the Admonition wherby he would bring thē into the suspitiō of Arrianisme to whom all those that feare God beare witnes y they are most far from He him selfe notwithstanding once again in the last of these three sections 96. page doth lay the manyfest foundations of that part of Anabaptisme which standeth in hauing al things common saying directly agaynst S. Peter that in the tyme of the Apostles Christians had proprietie in nothing And further geuing great cause of triumph of the one syde to the Catabaptistes and such as deny the baptisme of yong infants in matching that with those things which the church may although not without incommoditie yet without impietie be without and of the other syde vnto the papistes whilest he sayth that we reade not of any women which receiued the Lords supper in the Apostles tyme For thys is that they alledge to proue theyr vnwritten verityes when as
is mentioned of one Theodotus who is sayd to haue seperated or excommunicated Apollinaris but it doth not appeare there that he alone of hys owne authority dyd excommunicate hym And there be great reasons in that Chapter to proue that he dyd it not of hys owne authority for immediatly after his heresy was knowne Damasus bishop of Rome and Peter bishop of Alexandria caused a sinode to be gathered at Rome where hys heresy was condemned Now for so much as the custome of synodes and councels is when they condenme the heresyes to excommunicate the heretickes it is to be thoughte that that councell dyd excommunicate hym and that Theodotus byshop of Laodicea dyd execute that decree and excommunication And in deede Sozomene doth so expound hym selfe when immediatly after he had sayde that he dyd excommunicate him he addeth acoinonetoh auton apophainei whych is that he declared him excommunicate whych in deede properly belongeth to the minister when the excommunication is decreed by those to whoÌ„ it appertaineth Whych thing may yet better appeare by the manner of speache whych is vsed in an other place where speaking of â—ictor excommunycating Theodotus he vttereth it by thys apekeryxe whych is to promulgate or pronounce the sentence whych was decreed by others As for Amb. although he be greatly commended for excommunicating the Emperor yet he was neuer commended for that he did excommunicate him himselfe alone and if he dyd excommunicate him himselfe alone yet hys fault was the les for so much as he being desirous of an eldershyp could not as it semeth by hys complaint which I haue spoken of before â—â—â—aine one And although the storyes doe not make mention y there were others whose authority came into thys excommunication yet it followeth not y there were no other And how often wil you stomble at that which you do so sharply reproue in others whych is in making of arguments of authority negatiuely And if you will not grauÌ„t thys manner of reasonyng in the scripture in matters pertaining to the gouernment of the church whych are all comprehended in the scripture how would you reason of a common story whych neither can nor dothe professe to speake all those things whych fall into that matter whych it wryteth of But what if so be it be proued that Ambrose did not this of hys owne authoritye but by the authoritye also of others will you then confesse that he is commended of all those whych wryte stories for so doing and confesse that the vse and practise of the primitiue church was far from thys that is nowe For proufe whereof I will geue you a place whych Ambrose the best wytnes of thys matter hath in one of his epistles wher he sheweth that assone as the murther whych Theodosius had caused to be done at the citye of Thessalonica was heard by and by the byshops of Fraunce came and there was holden a Synode where also Ambrose sayeth that hys communicating wyth Theodosius coulde not absolue hym for that as it myght appeare the byshops in that synode had in excommunicating hym ordained that he should not be absolued vntill suche tyme as he had done repentance whych he did afterward with confessyon of his faulte before the congregation and asking forgeuenes of it So it appeareth that that whych he did he did it by the sentence of the synode and not of hys owne authority alone In the. 220. 221. pages he speaketh of thys thing a fresh but hath no newe matter but maketh a bare rehersall of the places of the admonition asking after hys accustomed manner of confuting what maketh thys or what proueth that only wheras he sayd before and proued as he thought that the minister had only to do wyth excommunication being pressed there by the admonition either to defend or renounce hys Chauncellors c. he had rather deny bothe the truth and himselfe then he wold haue any of that horrible confusion and prophanation of the holy discipline of God brought in by popery threatnyng the ouerthrow of the whole church seruing for nothing but for the nourishing of the ambition and idlenes of a fewe driuen out of the church Of the whych I will vpon occasion speake a word if first I shewe that the vse of the auncyent church hath bene not to permit the excommunication to one but that the sentence therof should come from the gouernors and elders of the church vnto whome that dyd especially appertaine Although I can not passe by that which M. doctor sayth that for so much as the authors of the Admonition had alledged the words tell the church to proue the interest of the church in excommunication that therefore they could not vse the same to proue the interest of the pastor as who should saye that the pastor is not one of the church But of the absurdity of this I haue spoken sufficiently before and how all men do see the vanity of thys reason that because that people haue an interest by thys place therfore the pastor hath none But I come to shew the vse of the primitiue church in thys matter wherof we haue a manifest testimony in Tertullian If sayth he there be any whych hath committed suche a faulte that he is to be put away from the partakyng of the prayer of the church and from all holy matters or affaires there do beare rule or be presidents certaine of the most approued auncients or elders whych haue obtayned thys honor not by mony but by good report And that the auncients had the ordering of these things and the peoples consent was required and that if the case were a very difficult case it was referred vnto the synodes or councels and that the ministers dyd not take vpon them of their owne authority to excommunicate and that those whych dyd receiue the excommunicate wythout the knowledge consent of the churche were reprehended it may appeare almost in euery page of Cyprians Epistles and namely in these whych I haue noted in the margent In Augustines tyme it appeareth also that the consent of the church was required for in the third boke agaynst the epistle of Parmenian he sheweth that if the multitude of the church be not in that fault for which one is to be excommunicated that then it helpeth much to make the party both afrayde and ashamed that he be excommunicated or anathematised as he calleth it by all the churche and in hys bookes de Baptis contra Donatistas in diuers places he is so far from permitting the excommunication to one man that he semeth to fal into the other extremity whych is to make the estate of the church to populare and the people to haue too great a sway For there he sheweth that if the most of the people be infected wyth the fault whych is to be punyshed by excommunication that then no excommunication ought to be attempted for because a sufficient numbre of voyces will not be obtained
wrytings and paraphrases vpon the scryptures are estemed comparable in that kinde of paraphrasticall wryting wyth any whych hath laboured that wayes And if any mennes wrytings were to be red in the church those paraphrases whych in explanyng the scrypture go least from it and whych kepe not only the numbre of sentences but almost the very numbre of words were of all most fitte to be red in the churche Seeing therfore I say the church of God then abstained from such interpretations in the church and contented it selfe wyth the scryptures it can not be but a moste dangerous attempt to bryng any thyng into the church to be red besydes the word of god Thys practise continued still in the churches of God after the apostles times as may apeare by the second Apologie of Iustin Martyr which sheweth that theyr manner was to read in the church the monuments of the prophets and of the apostles and if they had red any thyng else it is to be supposed that he would haue set it downe consydering that hys purpose there is to shewe the whole order whych was vsed in their churches then The same may appear in the first Homilye of Oregine vpon Exodus and vpon the Iudges And as for M. Bucers authoritye I haue shewed before how it ought to be wayghed heere also it is suspitious for that it is sayd that hys aduise was when the lord should blesse the realme wyth moe learned preachers that then order should be taken to make more homilyes whych should be red in the church vnto the people As if M. Bucer dyd not know that there were then learned preachers enough in the realme whych were able to make homilies so many as the volume of them myght easely haue exceeded the volume of the Byble if the multytude of homilyes would haue done so much good And if the authority of M. Bucer beare so great a sway wyth M. Doctor that vpon hys credite only wythout eyther scripture or reason or examples of the Churches primitiue or those whych are now he dare thrust into the church homilies then the authorities of the most ancient best councels ought to haue ben considered whych haue geuen charge that nothyng should be red in the church but only the canonicall scriptures For it was decreed in the councell of Laodicea the nothing shuld be red in the church but the canonicall bokes of the olde and newe testament and reckeneth vp what they be Afterward as corruptions grew in the church it was permitted that homilies myght be red by the deacon when the minister was sicke and coulde not preach and it was also in an other councel of Carthage permitted that the martyrs liues might be red in the church But besides the euill successe that those decrees had vnder pretence wherof the popishe legende and Gregories homilies c. crept in that vse and custome was controlled by other councels as may appeare by the coūcell of Colen albeit otherwyse popishe And truely if there were nothing else but thys consideration that the bringing in of the reading of Martyrs liues into the church and of the homilies of auncient wryters hath not only by thys meanes iustled with the Bible but also thrust it cleane out of the church or into a corner where it was not redde nor seene it ought to teach all men to beware of placing any wryting or worke of men in the church of God be they neuer so well learned as long as the world should endure And if any man obiect that by thys meanes also is shut out of the churche the forme of ordinary prayers to be sayd I say the case is nothing lyke for when we pray we can not vse the words of the scripture as they orderly lie in the text But for so muche as the churche prayeth for diuers thyngs necessarye for it the whych are not contained in one or two places of the scripture and that also there are some thyngs whych we haue neede of whereof there is no expresse prayer in the scripture it is needefull that there be a forme of Prayer drawne forthe out of the scrypture whych the church may vse when it meeteth as the occasyon of the time dothe require whych necessity can not be by no meanes alledged in the reading of Homilies or Apochrypha Wherevpon appeareth that it is not so wel ordained in the churche of Englande where bothe Homilies and Apochrypha are red especially when as diuers chapters of the bookes called Apocrypha are lyfted vp so high that they are sometime appoynted for extraordinary lessons vpon feastes dayes wherin the greatest assemblies be made and some of the chapters of the canonicall scripture as certen chapters of the Apocalipse quite left oute and not red at all Vnto the two next sections I haue answeared before where I haue entreated of holy dayes and of kneeling at the Communion it followeth to speake vnto the section contained in the. 183. and. 184. pages ALthough it will be hard for you to proue that thys worde priest commeth of the Greke word presbyteros yet that is not the matter but the case stādeth in thys that for so much as the common and vsuall speach of England is to note by the word priest not a minister of the gospel but a sacrificer which the minister of the gospell is not therefore we ought not to call the ministers of the gospell priests and that thys is the Englishe speache it appeareth by all the English translations whych translate alwayes hiereis whych were sacrificers priests and do not of the other syde for any that euer I red translate presbyteron a priest Seeing therfore a priest wyth vs and in our tonge dothe signifye both by the papistes iudgement in respect of their abhominable masse and also by the iudgement of the protestant in respect of the beasts whych were offered in the law a sacrificing office whych the minister of the gospell neyther dothe nor can execute it is manifest that it can not be wythout great offence so vsed The next three sections I haue before answeared wher I haue spoken of the abuses in baptisme crossing and interrogatories it foloweth to speake vnto the section contained in 194. 195. 196. pa. IF it be M. Bucers iudgement whych is alledged heere for the ring I see that sometimes Homere sleapeth For first of all I haue shewed that it is not lawfull to institute new signes and sacraments and then it is dangerous to doe it especially in this whych confirmeth the false and popyshe opinion of a sacrament as is alledged by the admonition And thirdly to make suche fonde allegories of the laying downe of the money of the roundnes of the ring and of the mystery of the fourth finger is let me speake it wyth hys good leaue very ridiculous and farre vnlike hym selfe And fourthly that he wil haue the minister to preach vpon these toyes surely it sauoreth not of the learning and sharpnes of the
to be dennes of loyterors and idle persones whylest there are nouryshed there some whych serue for no profitable vse in the church their offyces being suche as bryng no commoditye but rather hurte of whych numbre certen are whych the Admonition speaketh of in the. 224. page some other which hauing charges in other places vnder the coloure of their prebendes there absent them selues from them and that whych they spoyle and rauen in other places there they spend and make good cheare wyth and therfore not wythout good cause called dennes Finally there being nothyng there whych might not be much better applied and to the greater commodity of the churche whylest they myght be turned into colledges where yong men myght be brought vp in good learning made fitte for the seruice of the church and common wealthe the vniuersities being not able to receyue that numbre of scholers wherwyth their neede may be supplyed And where M. Doctor sayth that that whych is spoken of the Queenes maiestyes chappell is worthy rather to be punyshed then confuted if so be that these be abuses the example of them in her maiesties chappell can not be but most daungerous whych wyth all humble submission and reuerence I beseeche her maiesty duely to consider And as for the reasons which M. doctor bringeth to establishe them in the 225. page as that they are necessary whych he doth barely say and that s Aug. alloweth of a Deane and that the authors of the Admonition are instruments of those whych desire the spoile of them and that a man may as well speake against vniuersities colledges as against them I haue answeared before sauing that it is to be feared that colledges in vniuersities if M. doctor may worke y which he goeth about wil shortly be in little better case then those cathedral churches whych not only by hys own example but wyth might and maine and al endeuor possyble goeth about to fill and fraught them wyth Non residences and suche as haue charges of churches in other places whych do no good in the vniuersitye and partly are such as can do none only are pernicious examples of riotous feasting and making greate cheare wyth the prayes and spoyles whych they bryng out of the country to the great hurt of the vniuersity presently and vtter ruine of it hereafter onles spedy remedy be therfore prouided And wher he sayth it is not material although these deanes vicedeanes canons peticanōs prebēdaries c. come from the pope it is as if he shoulde saye that it skilleth not although they come out of the bottomles pit For whatsoeuer commeth from the Pope which is Antichrist commeth first from the deuill and where he addeth thys condition if it be good c. in deede if of the egges of a cockatrice can be made holesome meate to feede with or of a spiders webbe any cloth to couer with all then also may the things that come from the Pope and the Deuill be good profitable and necessary vnto the church And where he sayeth that collegiate churches are of great auncientie he proueth not the auncientie of the cathedrall churches onles he proue that cathedrall and collegiate be all one But I will not sticke wyth hym for so small a matter if our controuersy were of the names of these churches and not of the matter I could be content to graunt hys cause in this poynt as good as antiquitie without the word of God which is nothing but rottennes could make it But for so much as those auncient collegiate churches were no more lyke vnto these which we haue now then things most vnlyke our cathedrall churches haue not so much as thys olde worne cloke of antiquity to hide theyr nakednes and to keepe out the shoure For the collegiate churches in times past were a senate Ecclesiasticall standing of godly learned mynisters elders which gouerned and watched ouer that flocke which was in the citie or towne where suche churches were and for that in suche great cities and townes commonly there were the most learned pastors and auncientes therefore the townes and villages rounde about in hard and difficult causes came and had their resolutions of theyr doubtes at theyr handes euen as also the Lord commaunded in Deuteronomie that when there was any great matter in the countrey which the Leuites in matters pertayning to God and the Iudges in matters pertayning to the common wealth could not discusse that then they should come to Ierusalem where there was a great numbre of Priestes Leuites and learned Iudges of whome they should haue their questions dissolued and thys was the first vse of collegiate churches Afterward the honor which the smaller churches gaue vnto them in asking them counsell they tooke vnto them selues and that which they had by the curtesy and good will proceeding of a reuerent estimation of them they dyd not only take vnto them of right but also possessed them of all authority of hearing and determyning any matters at all And in the ende they came to thys which they are now which is a company that haue strange names and strange offyces vnhearde of of all the purer churches of whome the greatest good that wee can hope of is that they doe no harme For although there be dyuers which doe good yet in respect that they bee Deanes Prebendaries Canons Petycanons c. for my part I see no profite but hurte come to the church by them And where hee sayeth they are rewardes of learning in deede then they should be if they were conuerted vnto the mayntenance and bringing vp of scholers where now for the most part they serue for fat morsels to fill if it might be the gredy appetites of those which otherwyse haue enough to lyue with and for holes and dennes to keepe them in which eyther are vnworthy to be kept at the charge of the church or else whose presence is necessary and duetifull in other places and for the most part vnprofitable there Last of all whereas M. Doctor sayeth that we haue not to follow other churches but rather other churches to follow vs I haue answeared before thys only I adde y they were not counted only false Prophets which taught corrupt doctryne but those which made the people of God beleeue that they were happy when they were not and that their estate was very good when it was corrupt Of the which kynde of false prophecie Ieremy especially doth complayne And therefore onles M. Doctor amend hys speach leaue thys crying peace peace all is wel when there are so many things out of order and that not by the iudgement of the admonition fauorers therof only but euē of al which are not willingly blind I say if he do not amend these speches the crime of false prophesy will sit closer vnto him thē he shal be euer able to shake of in the terrible day of the lord The next section I haue answeared in the treatise
can not be seuered is vsed for that that they ought not to be seuered when we say folowing S. Paule that we can do nothing against the truth doe we not meane that we ought to do nothyng nor can do nothyng lawfully agaynst it And do not al men knowe when we say that a man can not be separated from hys wyfe but for the cause of adultery that we meane he ought not or he cannot lawfully Therfore thys is as all men may see a mere cauill and triumph ouer hys owne shadow There is no brag of suffering made by the authors of the admonition The modesty wherwith he hath defended this cause cā not be hiddē That he wold haue other men punished for wel doing when he is not content that the open wrongs whych he doth shuld be once spoken of I haue shewed how vnreasonable it is Finally as you exhorte vs to submit our selues to good order whych haue ben alwayes and yet are ready to do to leaue to be contentious which neuer yet began to ioyne wyth you in preaching the word of God which haue stopped our mouthes and wil not suffer vs to preache so we exhorte you in Gods behalfe as you will once answere it before the iust iudge that you wil not willingly shut your eyes against the truthe that if the Lord vouchsafe to open it vnto you you kicke not agaynst it Where we pray you to take heede that neyther the desire of keping your wealth and honor whych you are in nor the hope whych you maye haue of any further promotion nor yet the care of keeping your estimation by maintaining that whych you haue once set downe nor the sleighty suggestion of crafty wily papists do driue you to stomble against thys truthe of God which toucheth the gouernement of hys churche and the purging of those corruptions whych are amongste vs knowing that you can not stumble vpon the woorde of God * but forthwith you run your selfe agaynst Christ whych is the rocke And you knowe that he will not geue backe but breaketh all to fytters whatsoeuer he be that rusheth agaynst him And if the matter heerein alledged do not satisfy you then I desire euen before the same God that you confute it not by passyng ouer thyngs whych you can not answeare or by leauing both the words and the meaning of the booke and taking your owne fansye to confute or by wrangling wyth the fault of the Printe or by carping at the translation when the wordes being changed the sence remaineth or by alledging that such a one or such an other was of thys or that iudgement as you for the most parte hauing nothyng but hys bare name haue done All whych things you haue committed in thys boke but that you confute it by the authoritye of the worde of God by good and sound reasons wholy and not by pecemeale And if you bring the practise of the churches we desire that it may be out of authorities whych are extāt which are not counterfait and whych were in the best and purest times And if you thinke that the credite of your doctorship or deanrye will beare out that which you can not answer your self besides that ecdicon omma is neuer shut remember M. doctor that light is come into the world men wil not be deluded with nothing nor abused wyth visards Neither let it embolden you whych peraduēture hath made you to presume the more in this boke to wryte any thing vpon hope that no man dare answer it For neither the Quenes maiesty nor her honorable coūcel as we are persuaded wil deale so sharply wyth those whom they know to be faithfull lawfull subiects whych pray that all the treasures of Gods wisedom may be powred vpon them neither haue we cause to thinke but that as the euill opinion whych is in part conceyued of vs hathe growne vpon false vntrue informations which you and such other haue geuen in crying in their eares that we be anabaptists conspired with papists puretanes Donatists bringers in of cōfusion anarchie enemies to ciuil gouernment and I knowe not what euen so whē her maiesty their honors shal vnderstand how far we are from those wicked opinions they will leaue that opinion of vs and rather esteme of vs by that we haue preached taught and now wryte then that whych other men report of vs being things which we neuer taught spake or so muche dreamed of Vnto master Doctors censures vpon the additions detractions and alterations of bothe the partes of the admonition BEsydes that oftentimes M. Doctor dothe accounte the expositions and explanations corrections he leaueth vs somewhat the les hope that he wil correct hys errors for that he pursueth the authors of the admonition so harde correcting their very smal and few slips which they haue made calling thys singulare modestye and commendable humility amongste other reproches dalying and inconstancye when it is oure profession euery day to learne better thyngs For vnto what ende should we lyue if time if experience if reading if musing if conference should teache vs nothyng And therefore when thyngs are Printed againe it is good and prayse worthy to pollish those things whych are some ▪ what rude to mitigate those things whych are to sharpe to make plaine and to geue lighte to those things whych seeme darker and to correcte that whych is a misse I thinke M. Doctor shoulde not be ignorante that wise men haue their deuteras phrontidas their seconde counsels and those also wyser and better then their first as that sentence doth declare I will therfore say no more heereof but admonishe M. Doctor that he receiue more louingly those whych correcte them selues seing that the best defence to hys booke must be not a correction here and there but a cleane blotting and striking out not an amending but a new making almoste of hys whole booke Other matter in hys censures he hath almost none at all worthe the answearing sauing that he hathe a place or two whych touch the matters before entreated of For whereas he accuseth the authors of the admonition in the first leafe as though they should condemne Doctors and bachellers of diuinitie and so bryng in confusion of degrees he vpon the. 5. leafe confesseth that they allowe of a Doctor Althoughe he that taketh away degrees of Doctor or Bachelor of Diuinitie dothe not bryng in confusion nor taketh not away all degrees of schooles especially seeing they are nowe made bare names wythout any offices and oftentimes they are admitted to these degrees whych neyther can nor will teache Vnto the seconde leafe of the addition of the second parte of the admonition master D. saith that because the third to Titus maketh not against reading therfore it maketh not against reading ministers that is ministers that can doe nothyng but reade And wheras he would picke out a contradiction in the words of the admonition because they say bare
the churche purchased by the precious bloude of oure sauioure Christe and by their owne saluation that they woulde not deceiue by retaining so harde suche excessiue and vniust dominion ouer the church of the liuing God. But Ierome sayth that this distinction of a byshop a minister or elder was from s Marke his time vnto Dyonisius time wherby M. doctor would make vs beleeue that Marke was the author of this distinction But that can not be gathered by Ieromes words For besides that things being ordred then by the suffrages of the ministers and elders it might as it falleth out of tētimes be done without the approbation of s Marke the words from Marke may be rather taken exclusiuely to shut oute S. Marke and the time wherin he liued then inclusiuely to shut hym in the time wherin thys distinction rose How so euer it be it is certaine that S. Marke did not distinguish make those thyngs diuers whych the holy ghoste made all one For then whych the Lord forbid he shoulde make the story of the gospell whych he wrote suspected Againe it is to be obserued that Ierome sayeth it was so in Alexandria signifying therby that in other churches it was not so And in deede it may appeare in diuers places of the auncient fathers that they confounded priest byshop toke them for all one as Eusebius out of Ireneus calleth Anicete Pius Telesphorus Higinus xystus presbyterous cai prostantas elders and presidents Cyprian confoundeth priest and byshop in the epistles before recited so doth Ambrose in the place alledged before by M. doctor and yet it is one thyng with vs to be a priest as M. doctor speaketh and an other thing to be a bishop Ierusalem was a famous church so was Rome as the apostle witnesseth so was Antioche and others where also were great contētions both in doctrine and otherwise and yet for auoiding of contention and schisme there there was no one that was ruler of the rest therfore we ought rather to folowe these churches being many in keping vs to the institution of the apostles then Alexandria being but one church and departing from that institution and if there had bene any one set ouer all the rest in other places it would haue made much for the distinction that Ierome had recited But against thys distinction of s Ierome I will vse no other reason thē that whych Ierome vseth in the same epistle to Euagrius Ierome in that epistle taketh vp very sharply the archd that he preferred hym selfe before the elder the reason is because by the scripture the deacon is inferior vnto the elder Now therfore Ierome him selfe confessing that by the scripture a byshop an elder are equall by Ieromes owne reason the byshop is to be sharply reprehended because he lifteth hym selfe aboue the elder But what helpeth it you that there was a byshop of Alexandria whych vrge an archbyshop or what auauntageth it you that there was one cheefe called a byshop in euery seuerall congregation whych would proue that there ought to be one byshop chefe ouer a thousand congregations What could haue bene brought more strong to pull downe the archbyshop out of hys throne then that whych Ierome sayeth there when he affirmeth that the byshop of the obscurest village or hamlet hath as great authority and dignity as the byshop of Rome Erasmus did see this and sayd eironeuomenos that is iestingly that Ierome spake that of the byshops of hys times but if he had sene how the metropolitanes of our age excell other bishops he wold haue spoken otherwise And what could haue bene more fit to haue confuted the large dominion and superiority of our realme then that that Ierome sayth when he appoynteth the byshops sea in an vplandishe towne or in a pore village or hamlet declaring therby that in euery towne there was a byshop and that the bishop that he speaketh of differeth nothing at all from an elder but that the byshop had the ordaining of the ministers whervpon it doth appeare which I promised to shew that by this place of Ierome there is neither name of archbyshop nor so much as the shadow of his authority and that the byshops whych are now haue besides the name no similitude almost with the byshops that were in Ieromes time as for his reason ad Luciferanos it is the same whych he hath ad Euag. and to Titus and is already answeared What is that to the purpose that Chrysostom sayth there must be degrees who denyeth that there are degrees of functions we confes there is and ought to be a degree of pastors an other of doctors the third of those whych are called elders the fourth of deacons And where he sayth there should be one degree of byshop another of a minister an other of the lay man what proueth that for the office of an archbyshop whych is your purpose to shew how often times must you be called ad Rhombum And that he meaneth nothingles then to make any such difference betwene a byshop and a minister as is wyth vs which you wold faine make your reader beleue I will send you to Chrysostome vpon the third chapter 1. ep to Timothe where he sayeth The office of a byshop differeth little or nothing from an elders and a little after that a byshop differeth nothyng from an elder or minister but by the ordination only Still M. doctor goeth forward in killing a dead man that is in confuting that whych all men condemne and prouing that whych no man denyeth that there must be superiority amongst men and that equality of all men a like confoundeth all and ouerthroweth all Thys is a notable argument there must be some superior among men ergo one minister must be superior to an other Again there must be in the ecclesiastical fūctions some degrees Ergo there must be an archbishop ouer the whole prouince or a bishop ouer the whole diocese And all be it M. doctor taketh great paine to proue that whych no man denyeth yet he doth it so euill fauoredly and so vnfitly as that if a man had no better proufes then he bringeth the degrees of the ecclesiasticall functions myght fall to the ground For heere to proue the degrees of the ecclesiasticall functions he bryngeth in that that Chrysostom sayth there must be magistrate and subiect hym that commaundeth and hym that obeyeth The most therefore that he can conclude of thys for the mynistery is that there must be minister that shall rule and people that shall be obedient and heereby he can not proue that there should be any degrees amongst the ministers and ecclesiasticall gouernors vnles he will say peraduenture that as there are vnder Magistrates and a king aboue them all so there should be vnder mynisters and one mynister aboue them all But he must remember that it is not necessary in a common wealth that there should be one ouer all for that there are other