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authority_n	good_a	king_n	power_n	4,538	5	4.8909	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A14406	Actes of conference in religion, holden at Paris, betweene two papist doctours of Sorbone, and two godlie ministers of the Church. Dravven out of French into English, by Geffraie Fenton; Actes de la dispute & conference tenue à Paris. English.	Fenton, Geoffrey, Sir, 1539?-1608.; Vigor, Simon, d. 1575.; Sainctes, Claude de, 1525-1591.; Du Rosier, Hugues Sureau.; L'Espine, Jean de, ca. 1506-1597.	1571 (1571)	STC 24726.5; ESTC S112583	180,168	252

which euer hath bin in the world laying the worshipping of Images the inuocation intercession to Saincts the veneration of relikes other like impieties to the honor of God persuading the ignorante that al the was done to aduance him Vnder pretence likewise of his seruice he hath brought in all the contradictions and inuentions of men and chaunged with the time the true and lawfull seruice of God whiche consistes in the obedience of his Holy wil as he hathe declared it to vs in his Lawe and his woorde into obseruation of their commaundementes ceremonies by them inuented vnder pretence and colour of the Sacramentes ordeined by God for confirmation exercise and nourtour of the Faithe of his Churche there is crepte in the Masse which is not the ruine and absolute subuersion of the supper but also an abolishment of al the benefites of Iesus Christe and by consequent of the Faith of all true Religion vnder colour shadowe of Holinesse and vnder shadowe of chaste shamefast and honest conuersation whiche is principally required in the Ministers and Pastours of the Churche he hath established serilitie or singlenesse and hath taken from them al libertie of Marriage which hathe bene the occasion of muche Filthinesse Infamies stinking execrable Whooredomes Lechery which are amongst the Papists seene vnder colour of Praiers which wée are commaunded to make one for an other and Charitie by the which wee are bounde to succour the poore and néedy he hathe broughte in Suffrages whiche haue bene sung for the Dead Merites and Woorkes of Supererogation and other like Abominations vnder colour of the day of Reste which God hathe chosen and assigned to the sanctifying of his Holy name to the contemplation of his Woorkes to the recording and preaching of his benefites and fauours he hath brought foorth infinite prophane Holy dayes in whiche Goddes name is blasphemed his Ordinaunces corrupted and his Alliance violated Yea who can number the wicked abominations whiche were committed in those dayes vnder the pretence of the Keies and Discipline of the Church wherof the Administration and vse was giuen to the Ministers of lawful vocatiō as to haue a meane to preserue the Doctrine pure to enterteine a good order in the Churche and to withstande the slaunders which mighte happen by the insolencie of others he hathe established a tyranny whereof is happened an entyre dissipation of the Church of God a corruption of all estates and the diminishing of the lawful authority which God hath giuē to Kings Princes and Magistrates of whom some haue bene wholy spoiled aswel touching their goodes as dignities by the Pope and his Bishoppes and others so weakened that they are constrained in many places to bowe their neckes and lay it vnder their yoke and power To be shorte this may be noted and obserued in al the enterprises and actions of the Diuel that as he is a Serpent so hath he alwaies ramped creeping as it were couertly vnder leaues and likelyhoodes of godlinesse into the house of God to sowe there the disorder confusion and destruction which he pretended wherein wee see at this day that continuing and folowing as it were his earnest he bringes in the almightinesse of God a title peaceable and fauourable to al the worlde to the ende that vnder the honour and light of such an occasion he may dimme the eies of the ignorant and nussel them stil in the opinion persuasion of their errours which haue no ground in Gods woorde Wee beseeche the Readers as all others also in whom remaines a feare to God and zeale to his honour that with greate wisedome they consider of the saide artificiall practises of the Diuell beleuing not all sprites afore they haue wel sounded and examined them neither let them approue all things that may be proponed to thē vnder the name of God which at the first may seeme to resemble and appertaine to his honor glory but let them remēber the aduise of the Apostle to trie and proue the sprites with diligente regarde to the ende and marke of suche as propone them such doctrines And if on any behalf part wée haue to stād vpon our garde againste suche suttleties and deceites whiche are snares cast out to entrappe the simple we haue special néede of singulare regarde in this matter of Gods Omnipotencie wherof the question lies at this present for we confesse that it oughte to be knowne beleued and woorshipped of al creatures vniuersally that are in Heauen and earth and that the faithful cannot haue a better grounde nor better bulworke to defende them aswell againste the force of the Diuell and the Worlde as their other enimies together with all other temptations wherewith they may be assaulted Wée say this Omnipotency is as the pointe of the Shield vpon the which the worlde and al his partes is turned and holden vp Wée confesse also that this Almightinesse is not onely to be reuerenced of the Angelles and happy Soules in Heauen and of the chosen and holy ones that are in earthe but also to be redoubted of the reprobate and Deuilles that are in Hell whereof the one sorte of frée will doo folowe it and submitte to it and the other are constrained to stoupe vnder it and obey Lastely wee confesse that it is infinite and of a greatenesse incomprehensible to all creatures as the wisedome bountie iustice truth and other vertues and properties of our God. This is it that which wée confesse and beleue of the Omnipotencie of God as also that which wée thinke al Christians ought to holde and beleue And nowe to vse rightly this Omnipotency and apply it as apperteineth wée must iudge of it according to his Wil and of his Wil according to his Woord so that we ought not to attribute indifferently to the power of God al things good euil ordered and disordered conuenient and contrary to his nature false and true things But the better to rule and leade the thoughtes and cogitations rising in our mindes of the Almightinesse of God wée muste measure them for our regarde according to his holy Wil beléeuing that it can not be limited staid or hindred by any other wil or power which wold or can be set against it which S. Augustine teacheth at large in many places as in the fifth Booke of the Citie of God Chapiter 10. where speaking of God he saithe that he calles him selfe Almighty bicause he dothe all that he wil and suffereth nothing onlesse he will it Also in his 21. Booke Chapter 17. he calles him selfe Almighty for none other reason than that onely he can doo all that he will. Also in the Booke of the Symboll and Catec Chapter 1. our God doothe all that he will and that is his Omnipotency Lastely in his Sermon 119. De Tempore he is almighty as dooing all things which he will and ordeines them to be done These sentences with many other like founde in the writings of this good Father and

to the nature of God and of the parte of the body doth implie no contradiction Then God can do it or else so God cannot do it then it foloweth that God is not almightie in this sorte is proponed the reason and deduction of the antecedent and consequent and also the proofe of the assumption or seconde preposition for it is proued that there is no contradiction in saying that one body may be in two places that it doth not impugne the nature of God whereof the proofe hathe bene made by the Example of like things as God may bring to passe that two bodies may be in one place with other like reasons which are deduced in the Obiection And where they say the Doctoures doe argue euil from a particulare to an vniuersal it seemes vnder correction they haue forgotten the rules of Dialectice as being most certaine that this rule hathe place in the affirmatiue and not in the negatiue But of the contrary when there is any thing affirmed generally and the default is proued in particular as say the Dialecticians Ad negationem perticularis sequitur negatio eius quod vniuersaliter affirmatum est In like sorte when any thing is affirmed of the whole which hath many partes and the default be proued in one parte the destruction of the whole foloweth As if one would say all the body is whole who would proue one part of that body diseased shuld proue this proposition false all the body is whole such is the manner of arguing which the Doctors haue made that is that if God can not do a particulare thing as to bring to passe that one body be in two places then he can not doe all things or if he can doe all things he can also doe that They are sory to be referred to their Dialecticke as consisidering none other end than to make the antecedent graunted which is that God can not bring to passe that one body be in two places wherein for their partes they are glad to vnderstand the Resolution of the Ministers vpon this Article which is that God can not bring to passe nor cā not wil that one body be in two places bicause it implies cōtradiction And where the Ministers say that the Doctors by their reasons can not inferre the truthe of the antecedent the Doctors confesse it by which the ministers also perceiue that the reasōs which they haue brought foorth are nothing woorth to the confirmation of the Antecedent which is their resolution But the Doctoures say that those reasons albeit they were not vailable yet were they brought forthe by the ministers to this end to proue the impossibilitie of God to bring to passe that one body should be in two places For the Article beginning touching the authorities c the Doctoures Obiecte that the Auncientes neuer thoughts to make any exception of any thing which is not subiecte to the power of God for as it is manifest he that saith all excepteth nothing so when the scripture saithe that God is almightie hir meaning is clear that there is no exception and to giue exception in this should be no lesse to gainesay many places of Gods woorde than to blaspheme his power But the Doctoures say that the Auncientes haue interpreted the omnipotencie of God not to comprehend that which toucheth the perfection of his nature but onely that which concerneth creatures So that there be not to manifest contradiction repugnancie of their parte The present Question importes not that there is not contradiction that one body be a body and that at one instant it be in diuers places For of the essence of bodies speaking of one body hauing his dimensions according to the phrase of the Philosophers de predicamenio quantitatis it is certaine that the Dimensions be of the essence of a body but to be circumscript and enclosed in a place is accidentall The same being declared by Philosophie for the moste high heauen according to his whole is a body and yet it is not in place according to his whole And therefore it is not a thing essentiall to a body to be enclosed in one place Wherein to speake of the present matter the Ministers should be muche encombred to proue that the body of Iesus Christe is in one place in Heauen séeing it is written in the fourthe of the Ephesians he is mounted aboue all the Heauens oute of the which there is no place as they speake of places in regarde of bodies according to nature And if it were so that it were essentiall to one body to be in one place according to the rule which the Ministers giue there wold followe an other blasphemie againste the omnipotencie of God that God could not make one body and bestow it aboue all the Heauens and to speake more vniuersally that God could not make a body without place equal to his greatnesse Touching the Allegations proponed by the Ministers of certaine Auncient authoures the Doctoures Obiecte that those Allegations make against themselues bicause to be enclosed in one place depends not of the essence of the body nor his dimensions as appeareth by the Authorities produced making mention of the Aungels who haue no bodies it it is not then an essentiall reason that the dimension of one body be contained in one place Neither dothe all this blonderment of Authorities make any thing to purpose séeing they tend not but to shew that the natural propertie of creatures is different from the nature Diuine as saithe S. Basile expressely in the place alleaged by the Ministers as S. Ambrose in the first Booke of the holy Ghost Chap. 7. where the saide Authoures declare that God of his nature may be euerywhere as his creatures by their natures not neither doo the said Authors pretend that God by his omnipotencie can not make one body to be in diuers places séeing euen very they or their like when they come to speake of the power of God in the holy sacrament affirme that Christes body is in heauen and in the holy Sacramente inueighing also by the same power that the Aungels and soules of the blessed may be in many places and the Doctours wil recite in their Resolution Where the Ministers saye that a Body muste be circumscripte of the place according to his essentiall propertie that hath bene declared false héere before And the Ministers confounde the name of a body which signifieth sometimes substance sometimes quantitie hauing his dimensions largenesse length and profoūdnesse which dimensions are essentiall in a body taking body for fourme of quantitie and not in a substantial body for then it is accidentall It is most certaine that God may seperate the accidents of a body make a substance without accidents otherwayes would folow an other blasphemie that God coulde not seperate the accident from a subiect and substance And where the Ministers say that by a violent mouing a stone may be throwne on highe it is not Aunswered to

Ministers affirme that he doth it not and can not doe it bicause he vvill not for that according to Tertullian the power of God is his will. Touching the Doctoures reason of Philosophie to proue that a body in respecte it is a body forbeares not to be in diuers places the Ministers say that they suppose a false which is that the quantitie is accidentall and not essentiall to the body For that a body is measured limitted and circumscript is so of his essence that without it it is no more a bodie according to S. Augustines opinyon speaking euen of the bodie of Iesus Christe glorified that if they take from a bodie his space he hathe no more place where he can be and by Consequence being no where he is no more The reason of their Philosophie touching the firste Heauen not to be in any place the Ministers denie it seeing to vse the speache of the Scripture we must confesse that euen aboue the Heauens there is place As Christe saide to his Disciples I go to prepare you a place and in the very place in the house of my Father be many dwellings And in an other place There where I am taking the Present for the Future there shal be my seruaunte in whiche sentence wée muste obserue that there be Aduerbes of Place S. Augustine writing to Dardanus holdes expresse opinion that the Body of Iesus Christe must necessarily be in some place in Heauen bicause it is a true Body Besides in the number of the erroures heretofore condemned by the facultie of Paris it is said expressely that the Heauen called by them Empyreum is the place of Angelles of happy Soules and Humaine bodyes glorified Touching that whiche the Doctours pretende that by the Ministers Doctrine mainteining that a Bodye cannot be without place nor in many places at one instante maye be inferred that they blaspheme the power of god The Ministers of the contrary saie that the Doctoures blaspheme his Maiestie whiche they diminishe as giuing to the Creature that which belongs to him alone that is to be incircumscript as appeareth by Dydimus in his Booke of the Holy Ghoste where he proues that the Holy Sprite is God and not a Creature bicause it is circumscripte and all creatures necessarily are circumscripte and lymited The same resembling also the opinions of S. Basile Vigilius and the Maister of Sentences in the firste Booke Where they confesse that the Ancientes happy Sprites are circumscript albeit they are not corporal Bodyes they reason directely againste themselues and properly to proue our opinion heretofore of Bodyes whiche is that it cannot be but in what place so euer they are they are circumscripte For by an argumente of the Lesse to the More if the Aungelles whiche haue no Dimension nor measure be by their confession necessarily circumscripte as being creatures by greater reason the bodyes of men which be Creatures and measured muste be so And where they alleage that the Auncientes haue not saide that a Body by the power of God cannot be in diuers places that impugnes S. Augustine in his 30. Treatise vpon S. Iohn which is recited de Consec Distinct a. C. Prima quidem where speaking of the body of Christe he saith precisely that the Bodye of our Lorde wherewith he rose againe muste be in one place teaching thereby that at one time it cannot be in diuerse places And touching their reason taken of the Sacramente to enforce and proue their saying the Ministers aunswere that the Angelles neuer vnderstood nor saide that the body of Iesus Christe was in Heauen and in the Sacramente in one self sort maner nor that he was in the Sacrament otherwayes than sacramentally And where they pretend to proue in their resolution that the Angels may in one instant be in diuerse places whē we vnderstande their reasons they shal be aunswered Their speache deliuereth absurditie to saie that a Bodye being dispoiled of his Dimensions forbeares not for all that to be a Body For if it happened that a substance Corporall were wholy dispoiled of his dimēsions it should be no more a Body but a substance not Corporal of like nature to the Aungelles and Sprites And albeit God by his power may separate the Dimensions of a substance withoute corrupting it yet it cannot be but they muste be separated from a Bodye without corrupting the same bicause the Qualitie and Dimensions be Accidentes of the Substance but not of the Body which cannot subsiste without them bicause they are of his proper Essence And where the Doctours inferre after in their obiection that the weight in a body is a thing essential the Ministers denie it and by this reason if it were of the Essence of the Bodye the Bodye failing it muste also cease to be And yet we sée that the Body of Iesus Christ glorified to the which the bodyes of all the Electe shal be conformed after the Resurrection dothe not forbeare to be and subsiste albeit at this daye it be exempt from al weightinesse Touching theire moste strong and mighty Argumente that if twoo Bodyes maye be together in one place one body may also be in diuers places at one instant the Ministers withoute graunting their Antecedente saie theire Consequence vnder correction is not good as the Argumente it selfe is moste weake Adding this further that the Doctoures neither haue proued nor euer can proue by Scripture nor any Authoritie of the Auncientes no nor any sufficiente Reason that either the matter of theire Antecedente or the Consequence they inferre vppon it are true Where the Doctoures to proue that twoo bodyes may be together in one place alleage scripture that Christe entred the house where his disciples were the doores being shutte the Ministers aunswere that it is not written that he entred by the doores shutte but onely the doores being shutte whiche the Aunciente Interpreter hath giuen well to vnderstande expounding in one of the places of S. Iohn where standes mention of the matter afore recited Cum Fores essent clausae When the doores were shutte came Iesus c. Yet the Ministers saie they beleue and are assured of the cleare opinion of the Scripture that the doores being shutte he came and stoode in the middest of his Disciples But that it cannot be defined nor determined whiche waye he entred whether throughe the Walles or by the Gates of Woode whiche S. Hilarie him selfe puttes in doubte in his place alleaged by the Doctours what soeuer it be the Ministers say that in entring he made his way myraculously the one body whether it were the wood or the wal made place to the body of Iesus Christ entring or that an opening was made to him by the Aungel who opened shut the doores againe in a moment as hath bene said before But in what fashion so euer it was done two bodyes were neuer founde together in one selfe place Touching that they alleage of S. Augustine in his Booke de Agone Christiano

firste place they alleage that God can not do a thing to derogate the order which he hath established in the world in the seconde that it were to establishe mutabilitie and chaunge in Gods councels to confesse that he is able to doe any thing contrary to the said order established in the world in the third that if it were so there should be contradiction in his will whereof should folow that he were a lier And for the fourth blasphemie that the power of God is his will and likewise his not power his not wil And for the fifth they pretende that God would haue a body which in one instant might haue bene in many places afore they beleue that God could haue made it otherwayes they meane to infer that he neither hath could nor can make it by which the Ministers will acknowledge nothing of Gods power but so muche as he shewes by effect for which matter they alleage Tertullian All these blasphemies are drawne out of the propre woordes of the first Article of the Ministers Touching the firste that God can not doe a thing to derogate the order he hath established in the worlde it is proued an apparant blasphemie by the Scripture who in infinite places makes mention of Gods works aboue nature which the Ministers call order established in the world the Scripture teacheth in proper termes the God can do infinite things aboue the order established in the world As the wife of Lot which was conuerted into a piller of Salte that a barraine woman in hir last age hauing an olde husband had a childe That a Vine all drie hathe flourished A shée Asse hath spoken that the Sunne stayed and went backe againe with other innumerable Examples contained in the olde Testament And for the new Testament that a virgin brought forth a childe That a body hath walked vpon the Sea and mounted to heauen and generally all the miracles done by Christ and his Apostles aboue nature the same being contrary to the order established in the worlde From this blasphemie growes an other that God séeing he hathe established his order in the world hath not done nor coulde nor can doe any miracle But to proue by the Authoritie of the scripture that God can do against the order established in the world it is writtē in Esay 50. My hand which is my power is it abridged that I can not redéeme buy againe is there no more power in me to deliuer Behold by threates I wil make dry the sea wil put the fluddes into the deserte so that the fishes shal perishe for wante of water and shal die of thirste I apparel the heauens with darkenesse and putte a sacke for their couer But more expressely in the newe Testamente where it is saide by S. Iohn that God can raise children to Abraham of the stones Which place albeit may be expounded Allegorically yet by the literall sense S. Iohn declares it was possible to God the Deuil knewe and hath confessed that if Christe were the true sonne of God he might transeforme stones into breade The same notwithstanding contrary to the order established in the worlde And we haue to note that there is no lesse impossibilitie that bread be turned into Flesh by Gods omnipotencie than a stone transnatured into bread Wherin for such as denie this last done by the power of God they declare that they beleeue lesse of the almightinesse than Deuilles The confuting of the seconde blasphemie dependes vpon the disproofe of the first for albeit God contrary to the order established in the world hath done many miracles as hathe bene recited héere before yet there is no mutabilitie or chāge in his Councell Touching the third blasphemie that if God did any thing contrary to the order established in the worlde there shoulde be contradiction in his will and therfore he should be a lier The Doctoures Obiecte that it would folowe that suche should be the will of God neuer to doe any thing against the order established in the world and that he wold haue stayed and declared that to be his will by his woorde For otherwayes it coulde not haue bene knowne what was Gods will. And as the ministers neither haue nor can make appeare by Gods woorde that suche is Gods wil as not to do any thing against the order established in the world so they must firste teache and instructe that suche is Gods will afore they conclude that if God made one body to be in two places or other thing against the order of Nature established in the world he should be a lier Touching the fourth blasphemie that Gods power is his will and that his impower is his vnwill According to the sense which the ministers giue it if God can not doe but what he will to be an Heresie of the Heretikes called Monarchians in the primitiue Church against whom Tertullian writes in his Booke aduersus praxeam and since renued by one Petrus Abaillardus and continued by one VVickleffe they in déede measured Gods power according to his will the same contrary to the expresse woord of God which oftentimes declars many things to be possible to God which notwithstanding he wil not doe as appeareth in Sap. 2 where it is recited that God could sende many sortes of afflictions to the children of Israell to chastise them but he would not doe it hauing disposed all things by measure number and ballance and that he might destroy suche as had offended him but he would not but vsed mercy to them In the gospel our Lorde saide to S. Peter Thinkest not thou that I can pray to my Father and he will sende me more than twelue legions of Aungels and yet as he would not pray to him so his Father did not send them although he was able to haue done it in the persone of his sonne Christe might haue let his enimies to haue taken away his life but he would not And the Father might haue saued him from corporall Deathe saithe S. Paule by his power but neither the one nor other would doe it which albeit the ministers might say was foreordained yet the Scripture holdes expressely that he might haue done it notwithstanding it was foreordained And touching the authoritie of Tertullian the Doctoures are glad they produce it as making altogither for the truthe againste their blasphemies and yet they haue omitted many of his woordes and sentences to confute their erroure as the text it selfe heere witnesseth Nihil Deo difficile Quis hoc nesciat in possibilia apud seculum possibilia apud deum q●is ignorat Et stulta mundi elegit Deus vt confundat sapientia Ergo inquiunt heretici monarchiani scilicet difficile non fuit Deo ipsum se patrem filium facere aduersus traditam formam rebus humanis Nam sterilem parere contra naturam difficile Deo non fuit sicut nec virginem planè nihil Deo difficile sed si tam abruptè in

appeares first by this that it belongs not to al persons to cōsecrate the bread and the wine in the supper but only to such as are lawfully ordained by the imposition of the handes of the Pastors and Bishoppes according to the succession since the Apostles till our time And it is moste certaine that the most parte of the ministers of the supposed reformed church are not ordained by the authoritie of the handes of the Pastors who haue power by succession of one to an other since the Apostles So that we must conclude that suche ministers vsurping the office that pertaines not to them can not make any consecration and by consequence they giue but common bread and wine of which Article shall be spoken when we handle the sacrifice and priesthoode Secondly to make consecration of bread and wine it suffiseth not that the person be fit to consecrate the matter but it is also necessary that by a certaine meane the lawfull minister make the consecration which is by Benediction and pronuntiation of certaine woordes vpon the matters proposed as Iesus Christe did firste obserue wherein bicause the ministers albeit they were lawfully ordained and had authoritie and power to consecrate do not vse Benediction and pronuntiation of certaine woordes vppon the Breade and Wine impugning first that which Iesus Christe did and after left it to the Apostles and their successoures to doe so they can not pretende any consecration of the Breade and Wine nor that in them doe come any mutation whereof it foloweth that as they differre not from other Breade and Wine so that banket and feast is but common and that it is blasphemie to attribute to it the name of Christian Supper And this is a partie cause why we said the ministers supper was a banket prophane and polluted We haue required the ministers to Aunswere pertinently and fully to our Demaundes which bicause they haue not done to the ende to intercept all vaine trauaile we thinke it not good for the present to impugne their Aunsweres only we summon them eftsoones to Aunswere that which is proponed to them without shifting of the conference which they pretend to holde in so deare regarde The first Demaund was general for all the Sacraments to wéete if the ministers beléeued that two things were essentiall and necessary to the confection of the Sacramente which are the matter or element and the woorde the Ministers Answere that the Sacrament considered in his perfection consists in thrée things c. they speake in determinately so that it can not be iudged if their spéeche vnderstand the Sacrament only which they call of the Supper or generally of all as they were asked albeit in respecte they alleage Ireneus it may be easily gessed that they meane not but the Sacrament of the Supper we haue also to note the woordes of their Addition considered in his perfection as alwayes to haue a hole to créepe out when we speake of the essence of the Sacrament We demaunde that they Answere to the Question proponed in general of all the Sacramentes séeing there is like reason touching the essence of the Sacraments in generall and that also they declare openly what things are essentiall and necessary in the Sacrament to be made a Sacramente without speaking for the present of the perfection of one Sacrament containing the essence and spirituall frutes which are not of the essence of the Sacrament Touching the seconde Demaund the Ministers Answere no more pertinently than to the firste And specially where we made a Demaunde that certaine woordes muste be vsed for the confection of the Sacramente and what was necessary for the Sacramente of the Supper the ministers haue sayde that the base and secrete speeche of certaine woordes addressed to the Elementes was not a necessary speeche to the confection of the sacrament We did not Demaund whether that spéeche should be pronounced high or lowe But the Question was if there be any necessary spéeches to make the sacrament which ought to be pronounced vpon the matter or in administring the matter and what might be those woordes for the supper wherin it is not inoughe to say that the word by the which the ordinance of Iesus Christ is declared is the woorde of the sacrament But they muste Answere in what woordes that speeche consistes and when it ought to be pronounced Touching the sixthe Demaunde which is the principall the ministers care not to Answere pertinently and clearely only they exhibite a captious Answer by which it can not be perceiued what is their opinion of the presence and participation of the body of Iesus Christe in the supper And so doe they temper their spéeche that there is neither Zuinglian nor Almanist which confesseth not as muche or more than they that is to say that they are conioyned to our Lord Iesus Christe and that they possesse him ii vertue of their Faithe and by the operation of the holy Ghoste as to be made fleshe of his fleshe and bones of his bones c. But it is farre from the question which was if in the sacrament of the supper the Faithfull receiue in their soules besides all the spirituall graces amongst the which is communication with our Lord Iesus Christe the true bodie and the true bloude of him Really truely and touching the substance And if in the supper the Ministers make not distinction of the substance contained and perceiued in the Sacrament from the frutes and effects which procéede therof And to be short we aske if the Ministers receiue and allowe that which Caluine in his Catechisme Institution other Bokes hathe written of the Supper and that whiche is receiued therein Touching the seuenth Demaund the Ministers haue not vnderstand what was proponed to them touching the concomitance for they haue taken it as if the Demaund ran whether it was lawful to receiue the sacrament vnder one kind or not which was not ment nor put in question onely this was the difficultie that was proponed to them whether in their supper when the bread is receiued and afore the wine be receiued they participate really with the true body of Iesus Christe and not participate with his bloud till they haue taken the wine or whether in eating the bread the bodie be receiued afore the cuppe be taken To which Demaundes to the ende Paper be not spente and moiled for nothing we admonishe the ministers to Answere without swaruing or varietie and yelde open Confession of their Faithe And that we may knowe what Doctrine we may impugne or approue Touching the Articles of the Masse we reserue them to their propre places which is of the Sacrifice of the body and bloud of Iesus Christe after it be knowne and proued that they are present in the supper and holy sacrament Sunday the fourthe of August the yeare aforesaide An Answere of the Ministers to the vvryting of the Doctours sent vnto them by the Duke of Nyuernois the Wedensday morning the seuenth

to the sacrifice which they pretend of the body and blood of Iesus Christ where it is sayd for the which we offer thee or who offer thee c. That which we say of the sacrificature that it is common to al the church to offer to God sacrifice of thankes giuyng ought not to be slaūderously interpreted as though we wold confuse the ecclesiastical ministery wyth the sayd sacrificature and by that meane reuerse and trouble the order of the church giuing to euery one an autority power to gouerne it For we know well inough that vocations are different amongst the people of God and that it is necessarye that in the church ther be Pastors Doctors with other Ministers as Deacons and Auncients to guide it well and edifie as well by continual preaching of the word as carefull execution of other thinges concerning their charges onelye wee must distinguish those vocations which are particular from the sacrificature aforesaid which ought to be generall and common as is sayd to all the Church Such now as with diligence wyll obserue the matters here before discoursed proued by Gods word may easely see iudge that the Masse as it is celebrate at this day in the Romish church is the whole corruption reuersement of the institution of the supper which Iesus Christ hath established and left in his church so that at this daye it is impossible to finde or discerne one onely mark of his first ordinance For of a sacrament which Iesus Christ left in his church to ed●y and entertain it in a present memory of his death they haue made a sacrifice by the which the remembrance of the same Iesus Christ is altogether buried defaced Wherin there is this thing specially maruelous and no lesse worthy to be wel noted that the which appertained not but to the sonne of God impossible to any to do but to himselfe as to sacrifice for synne to reconcile men vnto God to appease his wrath towards them to intercesse for fauour and helpe of them the Prests attribute to themselues And that which is lawfull cōmaunded yea possible for them to do as to solemnise the memory of Iesus Christ in taking breaking distributing and eating the bread and drinking the wine to declare his death they haue altogether left So that as we may say that whatsoeuer Christ did in the supper and commaunded to do the Priestes do nothing at all euen so what he did on the crosse and commaunded man neuer to do it the Priests vndertake and seeke to do it The errors and abuses aswel of transubstanciation as of sacrificature and sacrifice expiatory and the repeticion of the same which be the principall partes and as it were the groundes of the Masse haue bene heretofore confuted and sufficiētly ouerthrown as wel by Gods word as other reasons here alledged in the declaratiō of the parts of that supper And now ther restes no more to batter wholy this Idol but to shew that the residue of the Masse is no better stuffe nor better grounded in Gods word For the adoration which is there done to the bread and wine is an idolatry condemned and cursed of god And it is not likely to be true that Iesus Christ instituting the supper had not ordained it S. Paule reciting this as he had receiued it of the Lord had not taught it and that the auncient church had omitted it if it had bene a thing wherin God might haue bene any way honored Besides the seperation of the Priest from the people is directly contrary to the article of faith of the Communion of the church and contrary to the purpose end for the which the supper was ordained the same tending to confirme and entertaine the societie that ought to be betwene the faythfull and bynde them alwayes more strayghtly one to another So that as it cannot be more rightly tearmed than a presumption intollerable and a manyfest disdayne of the rest of Gods people So that whiche the Doctors haue alledged to excuse and couer such a sacriledge is no lesse vaine and friuolous which is that the Masse of the Priestes doth not forbeare to be good not withstanding the assistants wyl not communicate ther. For first they are forbidden to eate alone in the supper and there is no supper where is no communion as S. Paule teacheth rebuking the Corinthians for departing one frō an other in the celebration of their supper When saith he you assemble your selues together it is not to eate the supper of the Lord séeing whē ye come to eating euery one aduaunceth to take it particularlye Therefore vpon the end of the chapter teaching them what forme to vse therein he sayth therefore my brethren when you assemble to eate tary one for an other Besides it happeneth often times that in their Masse there is none but the Priest and a litle Clarke to aunswer him whom they wyll not take to communicate with them Also howe can they excuse the Masses which are soong in Monasteries wher the people are defended to communicate with the Moonkes that celebrate them yea it is ordinarelye séene in great parishes in Paris and elswhere that when the people communicate they are seperate from the Prests who doing their businesse a part disdayne to eate and cōmunicate at one table with them And what cōmunion is there betwene the Priestes and the people séeing that in place to breake in the assemblye one selfe loafe to the ende that all participating therein shoulde by that meane be the more straightly conioyned and knyt in one selfe body euerye one hath his owne a part the Priest a greater and the people one somewhat lesse Séeing also the Chalice is in no sort distributed Furthermore what indeuor is vsed by the prests to inuite and exhorte the people to comunicate wyth them yea euen the Bishops who at this day hold it as a matter of shame to communicate with Artisans and other people of meane condition For conclusion if the Doctors had well considered the customes of the auncients who caused to go out of the place wher the Communion was done the Catachumeni and others not prepared to communicate And likewise if they had remembred the doctrine of S. Iohn Chrisostome shame would haue forbid them to defend such an abuse and impietie as is that of their Masse Wherin to the ende the people shal not rest ignorant in the opinion of that holy Doctor we wyl here deuide it word by word It is in vayne that the dayly oblatiō is done it is in vayne that we remayne at the aulter ther is no body that Communicates there I say not this to the ende you Communicate in any fashion but to the ende you make your selues woorthy of it Arte thou not woorthy to Communicate no more art thou to pray A little after he saythe further if any were called to a banket and washed his handes and being set at the