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A48937 Quakerism no paganism: or, A friendly reply to W.R. his unfriendly discourse intituled, Quakerism is paganism Shewing the insufficiency of what he hath written to unchristian the Quakers, and to render them as heathens and pagans to the people By W.L. a lover of peace more than of parties. Loddington, William, 1626?-1711. 1674 (1674) Wing L2805; ESTC R216893 25,726 71

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the close of the Title page an Abominable Vntruth and that they seem to have no regard to Truth or Honesty If these be not angry words I know none But in all these five pages concerning this Charge where is a particular of any one Scripture not relating to some external part of Worship which they deny Why should you say they deny the Bible which contains all the Books This is but quibbling by which you know I may easily prove that you deny it all by denying Circumcision a part therein contained But in short Sir Be not angry for I must tell you that until all we that own the Scriptures for our Rule come to an Unity in Faith and Practice according to it and it s well known we are now far from it methinks it seems a pitiful contradiction for us to press it upon others as an easie plain intelligible and unalterable general Rule Do you think our Divisions both in Doctrine and Discipline about it do not wonderfully weaken our Commendations of it as the Evangelical appointed Rule yea in so much that Church Discipline Doctrines will hardly keep people awake while they are Preaching up even from Scripture Authority They may well say unto us Physitians heal your selves agree among your selves ye wise and Learned what is the mind and meaning of the Scriptures about which now ye dispute and then we will more willingly conform to what you call Scripture Ordinances and Appointments Lastly Sir you conclude this Charge with a palpable abuse of my words Seeing then said I the great Design of all the Scripture is to bring us to an holy life let 's bear with Opinions which we plainly see do not subvert it especially considering that we read of no punishment denounced against men for their Opinions Now can any fairly and honestly conclude from hence that I allow of wicked Atheistical and Antichristian Principles But I see you are resolved to bring me under some manner of Scandal if you can therefore in your 42d page you say I forget That Corrupt Principles lead to Corrupt Practices No I do not forget it nor do I plead for or go about to extenuate any sinful or corrupt Principle but to oppose that of Pride and Bitterness against others Demonstration is the best proof in this Case Survey the Quakers and put their Lives and Conversations into one Balance of the Sanctuary and the lives of any other sort of Christians into the other and if they be found the lighter I 'le never speak a word more for them as a People How long must we wait to know a corrupt Principle They have been among us about six or seven and twenty years and yet we see no corrupt Practices growing from their Principles Certainly were such evil Fruit as you imagine natural to the Tree we should have seen it before now for you say when a mans Conscience is debaucht we shall quickly see him a man of a debaucht Conversation The Sixth Charge is That the speaking of the Spirit in any is of greater Authority than the Scriptures To this I said and I see no cause to alter my saying that there is no Reason for this Charge to be drawn from G. VVhiteheads words For these words and greater being added to the closing of the Sentence doth plainly signifie to me that it must relate to the Influence For what doth Authority signifie without Influence Of what worth is the Authority of a Magistrate where his Commands are not regarded Now it must be the Spirit opening of our hearts as it did the heart of Lydia to hearken to the Scriptures and suffer them to have any impression upon us or Authority over us wherefore VV. R. saith well That whatever good effect the Preachers Doctrine hath upon the Soul it is wrought by those words not as they are the words of men but as indeed the words of God which effectually work in them that believe So that they must first believe them before there will be any effectual work wrought by them and this they cannot do without the inward operation and Conviction of the Holy Spirit Therefore I see no evil in ascribing the greater to the Spirit so long as they give a great Authority to the Scriptures both which G. VV. doth in his Answer cited by T. H. viz. That which was spoken from the Spirit of Truth in any is of as great Authority as the Scriptures and Chapters are and greater I must put in Chapters now for Civilities sake for VV. R. catches at my leaving them out before but truly I know no difference or force depending on Chapters more than Scriptures they were Scriptures before they were in Chapters But the great Reason of this Charge is yet behind and the Apeal directing me to Dial. 1. p. 28. there I find it viz. That because the Script if diligently consulted with would deter persons from believing the Quakers feigned Revelations therefore 't is they so much endeavour to beget in the minds of men an ill Opinion of them This is a hard Censure and how he will get off I know not unless by way of supposed Consequences for I dare say they never told any man that their endeavours were to beget in the minds of men all ill opinion of the Scriptures or that they feared the Scriptures would deter persons from believing them But it being none of my Purpose to give a particular account of their Faith in this or other Points I refer those that are minded to know their Judgment about the Script to the 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th Chapters of Quakerism a new nick name for old Christianity and the Defense of it And whereas he saith a man may see how dark my Vnderstanding is that I should acknowledg G. W. ' s words and yet see no Reason for the Charge Is not the Reason of the Charge what I last mentioned as a hard Censure And indeed he that sees a Reason for that Consequence in G. VV. his words I confess sees more than I do The Seventh Charge is That is no Command from God to me which God hath given by way of Command to another neither did any of the Saints act by the Command which was to another Every one obeyed their own Command This in Substance is but the two former Charges drest up in other words For by Commands I suppose T. H. means Scripture Commands and by Saints such as are recorded in Scripture And then 't is no more than what Ben. Furly said before that there is nothing in the Scripture which he is obliged to obey because there Recorded And so say I not only because Recorded in that Book do I obey any Command but because the Spirit of God convinceth me that it is my Duty For if its very being in that book be the ground of Obedience what would become of him who should happen to have one of that false Impression whose Compositor W. R. saith was a Papist and