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former_o have_v of_o confer_v spiritual_a jurisdiction_n upon_o bishop_n have_v the_o temporal_a magistrate_n authority_n to_o preach_v to_o assoil_v from_o sin_n to_o inflict_v excommunication_n and_o other_o censure_n why_o have_v he_o not_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v as_o well_o as_o to_o dispense_v in_o irregularity_n as_o our_o late_a sovereign_a lord_n king_n james_n either_o dispense_v with_o the_o late_a archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n or_o else_o give_v commission_n to_o some_o bishop_n to_o do_v â—t_a and_o since_o they_o be_v subject_a to_o their_o primate_n and_o not_o he_o to_o they_o it_o be_v clear_a that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o dispense_v with_o he_o but_o that_o power_n must_v proceed_v from_o the_o prince_n as_o superior_a to_o they_o all_o and_o head_n of_o the_o protestant_n church_n in_o england_n if_o he_o have_v no_o such_o authority_n how_o can_v he_o give_v to_o other_o what_o himself_o have_v not_o your_o ordination_n or_o consecration_n of_o bishop_n and_o priest_n imprint_v no_o character_n can_v only_o consist_v in_o give_v a_o power_n authority_n jurisdiction_n or_o as_o i_o say_v before_o some_o kind_n of_o deputation_n to_o exercise_v episcopal_a or_o priestly_a function_n if_o then_o the_o temporal_a magistrate_n confer_v this_o power_n etc._n etc._n he_o can_v nay_o he_o can_v choose_v but_o ordain_v and_o consecrate_v bishop_n and_o priest_n as_o often_o as_o he_o confer_v authority_n or_o jurisdiction_n and_o your_o bishop_n as_o soon_o as_o they_o be_v design_v and_o confirm_v by_o the_o king_n must_v ipso_fw-la faclo_fw-la be_v ordain_v and_o consecrate_a by_o he_o without_o intervention_n of_o bishop_n or_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o ordination_n which_o absurdity_n you_o will_v be_v more_o unwilling_a to_o grant_v than_o well_o able_a to_o avoid_v if_o you_o will_v be_v true_a to_o your_o own_o doctrine_n the_o pope_n from_o who_o original_o you_o must_v beg_v your_o succession_n of_o bishop_n never_o receive_v nor_o will_v nor_o can_v acknowledge_v to_o
express_o condemn_v as_o erroneous_a or_o in_o the_o next_o degree_n to_o heresy_n but_o because_o it_o be_v a_o vanity_n to_o muster_v a_o number_n of_o writer_n in_o a_o question_n impertinent_a to_o our_o present_a design_n which_o be_v only_o against_o heresy_n or_o schism_n both_o which_o exclude_v invincible_a ignorance_n i_o hold_v it_o best_a to_o pass_v they_o over_o in_o silence_n 30._o your_o say_n that_o a_o man_n may_v be_v a_o true_a visible_a membër_fw-la 47._o membër_fw-la pag._n 47._o of_o the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n who_o be_v not_o actual_o otherwise_o then_o in_o vow_n a_o member_n of_o any_o true_a visible_a church_n destroy_v itself_o for_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n and_o degree_n neither_o more_o nor_o less_o a_o man_n be_v a_o visible_a member_n in_o act_n or_o in_o desire_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n as_o he_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n which_o be_v visible_a and_o bellarmine_n who_o you_o cite_v for_o yourself_o be_v 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contra_fw-la ruff._n apol._n 1._o style_v the_o ensign-bearer_n of_o the_o arian_n sect_n and_o who_o be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v relate_v that_o s._n irenaeus_n 24._o irenaeus_n hist._n eccles_n lib._n 5._o c._n 24._o reprehend_v victor_n for_o have_v excommunicate_v the_o church_n of_o asia_n for_o the_o question_n about_o keep_v easter_n yet_o even_o he_o dare_v not_o say_v that_o irenaeus_n blame_v the_o pope_n for_o want_v of_o power_n but_o for_o misapply_v it_o which_o suppose_v a_o power_n to_o do_v it_o if_o the_o cause_n have_v be_v sufficient_a and_o the_o success_n show_v that_o even_o in_o the_o use_n of_o his_o power_n pope_n victor_n be_v in_o the_o right_n for_o after_o his_o death_n the_o counsel_n of_o nice_a constantinople_n and_o ephesus_n which_o you_o receive_v as_o lawful_a general_n counsel_n excommunicate_v those_o who_o hold_v the_o same_o custom_n with_o the_o province_n which_o
victor_n have_v excommunicate_v and_o so_o they_o come_v to_o be_v rank_v among_o heretic_n under_o the_o name_n of_o quartadecimam_fw-la you_o may_v know_v what_o opinion_n s._n irenaeus_n have_v of_o pope_n by_o these_o word_n every_o church_n ought_v to_o have_v recourse_n 3._o recourse_n adverse_a haeres_fw-la lib._n 3._o cap._n 3._o to_o rome_n by_o reason_n of_o she_o more_o powerful_a principality_n and_o even_o in_o this_o your_o instance_n eusebius_n do_v only_o say_v that_o irenaeus_n do_v fit_o exhort_v pope_n victor_n that_o he_o shall_v not_o cut_v off_o all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o hold_v this_o ancient_a tradition_n which_o exhortation_n do_v necessary_o imply_v that_o pope_n victor_n have_v power_n to_o do_v it_o as_o i_o say_v already_o and_o now_o i_o pray_v you_o reflect_v upon_o your_o precipitation_n in_o say_v of_o vactor_n and_o stephen_n their_o censure_n 50._o censure_n pag._n 50._o be_v much_o slight_v and_o their_o pride_n and_o schism_n in_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n much_o condemn_v for_o they_o do_v nothing_o which_o be_v not_o approve_v by_o the_o universal_a church_n of_o god_n and_o the_o doctrine_n which_o they_o condemn_v be_v no_o less_o than_o heretical_a and_o therefore_o to_o answer_v also_o to_o what_o you_o object_n pag._n 52._o if_o the_o british_a and_o scotish_n bishop_n do_v adhere_v to_o the_o church_n of_o asta_n in_o their_o celebration_n of_o easter_n after_o the_o matter_n be_v know_v to_o be_v define_v by_o the_o church_n their_o example_n can_v only_o be_v approve_v by_o such_o as_o yourself_o nor_o can_v it_o either_o impeach_v the_o authority_n or_o darken_v the_o proceed_n of_o the_o pope_n you_o cite_v baronius_n 604._o baronius_n aun_n 604._o in_o the_o margin_n who_o direct_o against_o you_o relate_v out_o of_o bede_n that_o when_o our_o apostle_n s._n augustine_n can_v neither_o by_o argument_n nor_o by_o miracle_n wrought_v in_o their_o presence_n bow_v their_o stiffness_n 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most_o manifest_a not_o only_o in_o s._n augustine_n who_o keep_v most_o strict_a amity_n with_o zozimus_n innocentius_n and_o celestinus_fw-la pope_n but_o also_o in_o s._n fulgentius_n and_o other_o but_o it_o must_v be_v understand_v only_o of_o some_o bishop_n of_o carthage_n and_o in_o particular_a of_o eulalius_n himself_o till_o he_o be_v inform_v of_o the_o truth_n submit_v himself_o to_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o you_o ought_v rather_o to_o have_v allege_v his_o submission_n and_o condemnation_n of_o his_o predecessor_n to_o prove_v the_o pope_n authority_n over_o the_o african_a church_n then_o to_o object_v against_o it_o the_o example_n of_o some_o of_o his_o predecessor_n &_o of_o himself_o who_o afterward_o repent_v and_o condemn_v his_o own_o fact_n you_o do_v well_o only_o to_o mention_v the_o protension_n and_o forgery_n of_o the_o sea_n of_o rome_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o appeal_v for_o you_o may_v know_v that_o bellarmine_n vbisup_n bellarmine_n vbisup_n do_v so_o full_o answer_v that_o point_n as_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o effectual_a to_o prove_v the_o pope_n supremacy_n in_o africa_n than_o the_o right_n of_o appeal_v from_o africa_n to_o rome_n in_o cause_n of_o great_a moment_n 34._o your_o last_o instance_n about_o three_o chapter_n of_o the_o council_n of_o chalcedon_n condemn_v by_o the_o five_o general_n council_n the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n at_o length_n consent_v for_o which_o diverse_a bishop_n of_o italy_n and_o also_o the_o bishop_n of_o ireland_n do_v joint_o depart_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v like_a to_o your_o former_a objection_n for_o baronius_n who_o you_o cite_v in_o your_o margin_n have_v these_o word_n as_o contrary_a to_o your_o purpose_n as_o may_v be_v hence_o be_v it_o that_o the_o spond_n the_o ann._n 553._o num_fw-la 14._o apud_fw-la spond_n bishop_n of_o venice_n &_o the_o adicyne_a region_n do_v gathâ—â—_n together_o a_o council_n at_o aquileia_n against_o the_o five_o synod_n and_o the_o 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in_o fine_a all_o this_o controversy_n do_v nothing_o concern_v any_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o only_o in_o fact_n and_o not_o doctrine_n but_o person_n as_o may_v be_v see_v at_o large_a in_o baronius_n neither_o be_v it_o betwixt_o catholic_n and_o heretic_n but_o among_o catholic_n themselves_n the_o rest_n of_o your_o section_n need_v no_o answer_n at_o all_o only_o whereas_o you_o say_v whosoever_o wilful_o oppose_v 57_o oppose_v pag._n 57_o any_o catholic_a verity_n maintain_v by_o the_o catholic_a visible_a church_n as_o do_v heretic_n or_o perverse_o divide_v himself_o from_o the_o catholic_a communion_n as_o do_v schismatic_n the_o condition_n of_o both_o they_o be_v damnable_a what_o understand_v you_o by_o catholic_a verity_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v not_o all_o veritye_n maintain_v by_o the_o catholic_a church_n catholic_a verity_n or_o how_o do_v you_o now_o distinguish_v heresy_n and_o schism_n from_o the_o catholic_a communion_n you_o tell_v we_o pag._n 76._o that_o it_o be_v the_o property_n of_o schism_n to_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o hope_n of_o salvation_n the_o church_n from_o which_o it_o separat_n and_o be_v it_o not_o a_o heresy_n to_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n &_o hope_n of_o salvation_n the_o catholic_a church_n how_o then_o can_v one_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n be_v a_o schismatique_a from_o the_o catholic_a church_n &_o not_o be_v joint_o a_o heretic_n chap._n iii_o the_o protestant_n 59_o protestant_n pag._n 59_o never_o intend_v to_o erect_v a_o new_a church_n but_o to_o purge_v the_o old_a the_o reformation_n do_v not_o change_v the_o substance_n of_o religion_n but_o only_o cleanse_v it_o from_o corrupt_a and_o impure_a quality_n therefore_o say_v we_o the_o visible_a church_n extant_a before_o those_o your_o cleanse_a day_n have_v &_o still_o have_v the_o substance_n of_o religion_n and_o so_o according_a to_o your_o own_o ground_n we_o be_v safe_a if_o
now_o and_o heretofore_o i_o have_v declare_v at_o large_a in_o what_o sense_n and_o upon_o what_o occasion_n and_o reason_n s._n augustine_n against_o the_o donatist_n mad_a recourse_n to_o scripture_n alone_o 26._o you_o begin_v to_o impugn_v the_o pope_n infallibility_n by_o say_v that_o charity-mistaken_a mean_n by_o his_o infallible_a church_n only_o the_o pope_n which_o say_v of_o you_o do_v well_o declare_v how_o fallible_a your_o affirmation_n be_v and_o that_o if_o the_o pope_n define_v that_o to_o be_v white_a which_o the_o eye_n judge_n to_o be_v black_a it_o must_v be_v so_o admit_v by_o we_o you_o pretend_v to_o prove_v out_o of_o i_o know_v not_o what_o paper_n of_o the_o jesuite_n find_v in_o milan_n in_o witness_n whereof_o you_o allege_v paulus_n soarpius_n a_o seditious_a scandalous_a and_o condemn_a author_n &_o we_o must_v by_o no_o mean_n believe_v you_o without_o better_a proof_n you_o cite_v also_o out_o of_o bellarmine_n these_o word_n if_o he_o the_o pope_n shall_v quodantens_fw-fr shall_v de_fw-fr rom_n â—_o pont._n lib._n 4._o c._n 5._o §§_o quodantens_fw-fr err_v and_o command_v the_o practice_n of_o vice_n or_o forbid_v the_o exercise_n of_o virtue_n the_o church_n be_v bind_v in_o conscience_n to_o believe_v vice_n to_o be_v good_a and_o virtue_n to_o be_v bad_a who_o will_v not_o think_v by_o these_o word_n of_o bellarmine_n as_o you_o corrupt_v he_o that_o indeed_o we_o may_v believe_v vice_n to_o be_v good_a and_o vertueil_n the_o direct_a contrary_n whereof_o he_o affirm_v and_o from_o thence_o infer_v that_o the_o pope_n who_o the_o church_n be_v oblige_v to_o obey_v as_o her_o head_n and_o supreme_a pastor_n can_v err_v in_o decree_n of_o manner_n prescribe_v by_o he_o to_o the_o whole_a church_n these_o be_v his_o word_n if_o the_o pope_n do_v err_v in_o command_a vice_n or_o forbid_v virtue_n the_o church_n be_v bind_v to_o believe_v that_o vice_n be_v good_a and_o virtue_n ill_a unless_o she_o will_v sin_v against_o her_o 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indeed_o scripture_n can_v not_o propose_v or_o command_v any_o such_o thing_n this_o be_v that_o which_o bellarmine_n say_v but_o yourself_o be_v he_o according_a to_o who_o principle_n we_o may_v be_v oblige_v to_o embrace_v vice_n etc._n etc._n for_o since_o you_o affirm_v that_o the_o authority_n 1st_a authority_n pag._n 1st_a of_o general_n counsel_n be_v immediate_o derive_v from_o christ_n and_o that_o their_o decree_n bound_v all_o person_n to_o external_a obedience_n and_o see_v you_o hold_v that_o they_o may_v err_v pernicious_o both_o in_o faith_n and_o manner_n what_o remain_v but_o that_o we_o must_v be_v oblige_v even_o by_o authority_n immediate_o derive_v from_o christ_n himself_o to_o err_v with_o the_o council_n and_o at_o lest_o external_o embrace_v vice_n 29._o you_o come_v afterward_o to_o discourse_v thus_o these_o man_n 17â—_n man_n pag._n 17â—_n deal_v not_o plain_o with_o we_o when_o they_o pretend_v often_o in_o their_o disputation_n against_o we_o scripture_n father_n counsel_n and_o the_o church_n since_o in_o the_o issue_n their_o final_a and_o infallible_a argument_n for_o their_o faith_n be_v only_o the_o pope_n authority_n it_o be_v indeed_o a_o happy_a thing_n and_o a_o most_o effectual_a way_n to_o end_v all_o controversy_n if_o people_n will_v submit_v themselves_o to_o some_o visible_a live_a judge_n by_o who_o they_o may_v be_v instruct_v &_o by_o who_o it_o may_v be_v declare_v who_o allege_v scripture_n and_o father_n right_a or_o wrong_n which_o since_o you_o and_o your_o brethren_n refuse_v to_o do_v no_o wonder_n if_o we_o be_v constrain_v to_o allege_v scripture_n and_o father_n as_o you_o likewise_o do_v though_o you_o say_v that_o scripture_n be_v infallible_a and_o that_o all_o controversy_n must_v be_v decide_v by_o it_o alone_o beside_o though_o the_o pope_n be_v infallible_a yet_o he_o be_v not_o so_o alone_o as_o if_o he_o do_v exclude_v all_o other_o infallible_a mean_n for_o scripture_n general_n counsel_n and_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n be_v also_o infallible_a and_o therefore_o as_o i_o be_v say_v it_o be_v no_o wonder_n that_o we_o allege_v other_o argument_n beside_o the_o decree_n of_o pope_n alone_a for_o since_o in_o our_o dispute_n with_o you_o we_o abound_v with_o all_o kind_n of_o argument_n why_o shall_v we_o not_o make_v use_n thereof_o and_o if_o you_o will_v know_v the_o reason_n why_o counsel_n be_v gather_v to_o the_o great_a good_a of_o the_o church_n notwithstanding_o the_o pope_n infallibility_n you_o may_v read_v bellarmine_n who_o give_v id._n give_v de_fw-fr rom._n pontif_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o §._o respondeo_fw-la id._n the_o reason_n thereof_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v grant_v that_o s._n peter_n be_v infallible_a and_o yet_o he_o think_v good_a to_o gather_v a_o council_n act._n 15._o for_o great_a satisfaction_n of_o the_o faithful_a and_o to_o take_v away_o all_o occasion_n of_o temptation_n in_o the_o weak_a christian_n what_o estimation_n antiquity_n make_v of_o the_o pope_n authority_n i_o have_v show_v heretofore_o and_o if_o some_o who_o have_v write_v plea_n or_o prescription_n against_o heretic_n do_v not_o without_o more_o ado_n appeal_v 173._o appeal_v pag._n 173._o all_o heretic_n to_o the_o pope_n tribunal_n you_o have_v no_o cause_n to_o wonder_v since_o common_o the_o first_o error_n of_o all_o heretic_n be_v to_o oppose_v the_o pope_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o therefore_o they_o must_v be_v convince_v by_o other_o argument_n tertullian_n in_o his_o prescription_n against_o heretic_n do_v particular_o advise_v and_o direct_v that_o heretic_n be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o dispute_v out_o of_o scripture_n and_o that_o it_o be_v but_o in_o vain_a to_o seek_v to_o convince_v they_o by_o that_o mean_n and_o yet_o you_o hold_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o only_o infallible_a but_o the_o sole_a rule_n also_o of_o faith_n how_o then_o do_v you_o infer_v against_o we_o that_o if_o 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etc._n and_o other_o from_o other_o place_n the_o side_n of_o the_o world_n and_o i_o cite_v these_o word_n out_o of_o he_o before_o who_o speak_v of_o rebaptisation_n say_v then_o 1._o then_o in_o com._n part_n 1._o the_o bless_a stephen_n resist_v together_o with_o but_o before_o his_o colleague_n judge_v it_o as_o i_o conceive_v a_o thing_n worthy_a of_o he_o that_o he_o shall_v surmount_v they_o as_o much_o in_o faith_n as_o he_o do_v in_o the_o authority_n of_o his_o place_n of_o the_o opposition_n of_o some_o particular_a man_n to_o the_o pope_n we_o have_v speak_v already_o and_o in_o your_o say_n that_o his_o authority_n have_v be_v oppose_v by_o general_n counsel_n we_o will_v not_o believe_v you_o till_o you_o bring_v better_a proof_n that_o the_o division_n of_o the_o eastern_a from_o the_o latin_a church_n proceed_v from_o the_o ambition_n &_o pretension_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n
be_v clear_a by_o his_o other_o ensue_a word_n in_o the_o same_o place_n we_o ought_v not_o then_o to_o approve_v by_o our_o consent_n all_o thing_n which_o we_o read_v in_o the_o scripture_n to_o have_v be_v do_v by_o man_n even_o adorn_v with_o praise_n by_o the_o testimony_n of_o god_n himself_o but_o to_o mingle_v our_o consideration_n with_o discretion_n bring_v discretion_n with_o we_o not_o ground_v upon_o our_o own_o authority_n but_o upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o holy_a and_o divine_a scripture_n which_o permit_v not_o we_o to_o praise_v or_o imitate_v all_o the_o action_n even_o of_o those_o of_o who_o the_o scripture_n give_v good_a and_o glorious_a testimony_n if_o they_o have_v do_v any_o thing_n that_o have_v not_o be_v well_o do_v or_o that_o agree_v not_o with_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o present_a time_n in_o which_o word_n we_o see_v s._n augustine_n call_v the_o book_n of_o the_o maccabee_n scripture_n even_o as_o afterward_o he_o call_v canonical_a book_n in_o general_a divine_a and_o holy_a scripture_n and_o that_o the_o sobriety_n of_o circumspection_n which_o he_o advise_v to_o be_v observe_v in_o read_v they_o be_v not_o how_o far_o they_o be_v true_a or_o false_a but_o whether_o the_o example_n of_o razias_n recount_v by_o they_o be_v to_o be_v imitate_v more_o or_o less_o what_o you_o allege_v out_o of_o s._n gregory_n 17._o gregory_n moral_a lib._n 19_o ç._fw-la 17._o be_v easy_o answer_v for_o he_o do_v not_o call_v the_o maccabee_n not_o canonical_a as_o if_o he_o will_v exclude_v they_o from_o the_o number_n of_o true_a and_o divine_a scripture_n but_o because_o they_o be_v not_o in_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o jew_n or_o in_o that_o which_o he_o have_v at_o hand_n when_o he_o write_v his_o first_o draught_n of_o his_o commentary_n upon_o job_n for_o he_o be_v at_o that_o time_n the_o pope_n nuntius_n or_o legate_n at_o constantinople_n and_o the_o greek_a rhapsody_n of_o african_a canon_n have_v untrue_o put_v out_o of_o the_o 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not_o for_o the_o confirmation_n of_o ecclesiastical_a doctrine_n thus_o s._n hierome_n and_o you_o have_v reason_n to_o cite_v his_o word_n by_o half_n for_o he_o afterward_o retract_v what_o he_o say_v of_o the_o book_n of_o judith_n and_o tobias_n with_o which_o the_o maccabee_n be_v yet_o join_v in_o the_o word_n cite_v by_o you_o say_v in_o his_o preface_n upon_o the_o history_n of_o judith_n the_o book_n of_o judith_n be_v read_v by_o the_o hebrew_n among_o the_o hagiograph_n who_o authority_n be_v esteem_v less_o sufficient_a to_o decide_v controversy_n but_o for_o as_o much_o as_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a have_v reckon_v it_o among_o the_o holy_a scripture_n i_o have_v obey_v your_o request_n where_o you_o see_v that_o s._n hierome_n affirm_v that_o the_o most_o ancient_a and_o grave_a council_n of_o nice_a receive_v the_o book_n of_o judith_n in_o that_o sense_n in_o which_o the_o jew_n do_v not_o receive_v it_o &_o consequent_o as_o a_o book_n esteem_v sufficient_a to_o decide_v controversy_n which_o the_o jew_n deny_v and_o in_o another_o place_n the_o same_o father_n say_v ruth_n hester_n and_o judith_n have_v be_v 140._o be_v ep._n 140._o so_o glorious_a as_o they_o have_v give_v their_o name_n into_o the_o sacred_a volume_n where_o you_o see_v that_o s._n hierome_n place_v judith_n with_o ruth_n and_o hester_n the_o former_a whereof_o you_o admit_v for_o canonical_a and_o part_n of_o the_o latter_a in_o his_o preface_n upon_o the_o book_n of_o tobias_n he_o say_v the_o hebrew_n 100_o hebrew_n ep._n 100_o cut_v off_o the_o book_n of_o tobias_n from_o the_o catalogue_n of_o the_o divine_a scripture_n and_o again_o the_o jealousy_n of_o the_o jew_n do_v accuse_v we_o that_o against_o their_o canon_n we_o translate_v the_o book_n of_o tobias_n into_o latin_a but_o i_o judge_v it_o better_a to_o displease_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o pharisee_n and_o to_o obey_v the_o commandment_n of_o the_o bishop_n and_o elsewhere_o he_o place_v 23._o place_v in_o jsa_n c._n 23._o the_o maccabee_n among_o canonical_a book_n say_v the_o scripture_n report_v that_o alexander_n king_n of_o the_o macedonian_n come_v out_o of_o the_o land_n of_o cethim_n and_o wonder_v not_o if_o s._n hierome_n speak_v not_o always_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n of_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n since_o upon_o experience_n examination_n and_o knowledge_n of_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n he_o may_v alter_v his_o opinion_n as_o once_o he_o say_v of_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o hebrew_n that_o it_o panlinum_n it_o ad_fw-la panlinum_n be_v put_v out_o of_o the_o number_n by_o the_o great_a part_n of_o man_n and_o yet_o elsewhere_o he_o receive_v it_o dardanum_n it_o ep._n ad_fw-la dardanum_n as_o the_o epistle_n of_o s._n paul_n and_o if_o you_o will_v have_v a_o general_a explication_n of_o s._n hierome_n concern_v his_o reject_v of_o book_n not_o admit_v by_o the_o hebrew_n hear_v it_o in_o his_o own_o word_n whereas_o i_o have_v report_v 2._o report_v adâ—_n russ_n apolog_fw-la 2._o what_o the_o hebrew_n use_v to_o object_n against_o the_o history_n of_o susanna_n and_o the_o hymn_n of_o the_o three_o child_n and_o the_o story_n of_o the_o dragon_n bell_n which_o be_v in_o the_o hebrew_n i_o have_v not_o declare_v what_o i_o think_v but_o what_o the_o jew_n be_v wont_a to_o say_v against_o us._n and_o he_o call_v ruffinus_n a_o foolish_a sycophant_n for_o charge_v he_o with_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o hebrew_n about_o these_o part_n of_o daniel_n and_o s._n hierome_n explayn_v himself_o in_o this_o manner_n be_v acknowledge_v by_o 87._o by_o answer_v to_o burges_n pag._n 87._o covell_n and_o majesty_n and_o conference_n before_o his_o majesty_n bankeroft_n how_o then_o will_v you_o excuse_v your_o church_n which_o in_o her_o sixth_o article_n say_v in_o general_a of_o all_o the_o book_n which_o you_o esteem_v apocryphal_a among_o which_o be_v the_o history_n of_o susanna_n the_o hymn_n of_o the_o three_o child_n and_o that_o of_o the_o dragon_n the_o other_o book_n as_o hierome_n say_v the_o church_n do_v read_v for_o example_n of_o life_n and_o instruction_n of_o manner_n but_o yet_o it_o do_v not_o apply_v they_o to_o establish_v any_o doctrine_n how_o can_v she_o i_o say_v be_v excuse_v since_o s._n hierome_n even_o according_a to_o the_o confession_n of_o your_o own_o brethren_n do_v explain_v himself_o that_o he_o utter_v only_o what_o the_o jew_n be_v wont_a to_o say_v against_o we_o and_o call_v ruffinus_n a_o foolish_a sycophant_n for_o say_v the_o contrary_a so_o as_o instead_o of_o s._n hierome_n and_o the_o church_n of_o god_n you_o put_v on_o the_o person_n of_o ruffinus_n against_o s._n hierome_n and_o of_o the_o synagogue_n against_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n our_o lord_n &_o so_o your_o whole_a canon_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n rely_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o jew_n and_o final_o d._n potter_n while_o he_o grant_v that_o catholic_n and_o protestant_n disagree_v about_o the_o very_a canon_n of_o scripture_n forget_v to_o answer_v what_o charity-mistaken_a pag._n 43._o &_o 46._o do_v thence_o infer_v to_o wit_n that_o they_o can_v be_v account_v of_o one_o and_o the_o same_o religion_n faith_n and_o church_n 20._o the_o chymericall_a church_n of_o your_o 234._o your_o pag._n 234._o master_n d._n usher_n consist_v of_o man_n agree_v only_o in_o fundamental_a point_n be_v indeed_o a_o chimaera_n or_o non_fw-la ens._n for_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o there_o can_v be_v a_o visible_a church_n which_o profess_v fundamental_a point_n do_v not_o in_o other_o point_n either_o agree_v with_o we_o or_o you_o or_o else_o disagree_v from_o we_o both_o for_o either_o they_o must_v hold_v for_o example_n the_o real_a presence_n transubstantiati_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o to_o saint_n worship_n of_o image_n supremacy_n
confutation_n can_v there_o be_v then_o by_o your_o own_o word_n the_o believer_n see_v for_o if_o he_o see_v how_o do_v he_o believe_v or_o if_o he_o believe_v how_o do_v he_o see_v especial_o since_o you_o say_v he_o believe_v and_o see_v upon_o the_o same_o formal_a object_n or_o motive_n yet_o that_o scripture_n be_v know_v by_o itself_o you_o prove_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n who_o saych_a that_o the_o scripture_n 2._o scripture_n de_fw-fr verb._n deilib_n 1._o çap._n 2._o which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o prophetical_a and_o apostolical_a write_n be_v most_o certain_a and_o divine_a scripture_n itself_o witness_v but_o these_o word_n will_v prove_v to_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o bellarmine_n in_o that_o place_n dispute_v against_o the_o swenckfeldian_a heretic_n who_o deny_v all_o scripture_n say_v that_o he_o do_v not_o allege_v ibid._n allege_v ibid._n testimony_n of_o scripture_n as_o if_o he_o think_v that_o his_o adversary_n make_v any_o great_a account_n of_o they_o 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say_n that_o we_o yield_v to_o the_o church_n a_o absolute_a 144.145_o absolute_a pag._n 144.145_o unlimited_a authority_n to_o propound_v what_o she_o please_v and_o a_o unlimited_a power_n to_o supply_v the_o defect_n of_o scripture_n i_o let_v pass_v as_o mere_a slander_n as_o also_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v absolute_a not_o 144._o not_o pag._n 144._o depend_v on_o scripture_n but_o on_o which_o the_o scripture_n itself_o depend_v and_o you_o can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o that_o which_o have_v be_v so_o often_o inculcate_v by_o catholic_a writer_n that_o the_o scripture_n in_o themselves_o do_v not_o depend_v on_o the_o church_n but_o only_o in_o respect_n of_o we_o who_o learno_fw-la from_o she_o what_o book_n be_v canonical_a scripture_n which_o be_v to_o say_v not_o the_o scripture_n but_o our_o weak_a understanding_n and_o knowledge_n of_o scripture_n rely_v on_o the_o church_n which_o our_o saviour_n christ_n command_v we_o to_o hear_v and_o yourself_o grant_v that_o the_o church_n 142.143_o church_n pag._n 142.143_o be_v the_o ordinary_a outward_a mean_n to_o present_v and_o propound_v divine_a verity_n to_o our_o faith_n you_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o your_o knowledge_n of_o the_o trinity_n incarnation_n etc._n etc._n depend_v on_o scripture_n will_v you_o thence_o in_o fer_fw-fr that_o the_o bless_a trinity_n incarnation_n etc._n etc._n in_o themselves_o depend_v on_o scripture_n as_o if_o god_n have_v not_o be_v god_n unless_o scripture_n have_v be_v write_v beside_o to_o such_o as_o believe_v scripture_n we_o may_v prove_v the_o church_n herself_o by_o scripture_n and_o she_o in_o all_o her_o definition_n do_v consult_v examine_v and_o submit_v herself_o to_o scripture_n against_o which_o she_o never_o do_v nor_o ever_o can_v define_v any_o thing_n &_o in_o this_o sense_n also_o she_o depend_v on_o scripture_n but_o to_o make_v good_a your_o slander_n you_o 144._o you_o pag._n 144._o cite_v bellarmine_n after_o your_o wont_a fashion_n if_o we_o take_v away_o testimonium_fw-la away_o de_fw-fr effect_n sacram._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 25._o §_o tertium_fw-la testimonium_fw-la the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n this_o of_o rome_n be_v your_o addition_n and_o of_o the_o trent-councell_n the_o decree_n of_o all_o other_o ancient_a counsel_n and_o the_o whole_a christian_a faith_n may_v be_v question_v as_o doubtful_a for_o the_o strength_n of_o all_o doctrine_n and_o of_o all_o counsel_n depend_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n will_v not_o one_o think_v by_o these_o word_n that_o the_o strength_n of_o all_o doctrine_n depend_v on_o the_o church_n whereas_o bellarmine_n only_o say_v that_o we_o can_v not_o infallible_o know_v that_o there_o be_v such_o general_n counsel_n and_o that_o they_o be_v law_n full_a counsel_n and_o that_o they_o define_v this_o or_o that_o but_o because_o the_o present_a church_n which_o can_v err_v do_v so_o believe_v and_o teach_v us._n which_o word_n demonstrate_v that_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o speak_v of_o faith_n or_o doctrine_n in_o themselves_o but_o in_o respect_n of_o us._n and_o do_v not_o you_o yourself_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v the_o church_n which_o direct_v we_o to_o scripture_n and_o that_o she_o likewise_o be_v the_o ordinary_a outward_a mean_n to_o present_v and_o propound_v divine_a verity_n without_o which_o propesition_n no_o object_n can_v be_v convey_v to_o our_o 142.143_o our_o pag._n 142.143_o faith_n and_o what_o be_v this_o but_o to_o acknowledge_v that_o in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n without_o the_o guidance_n direction_n and_o proposition_n of_o the_o church_n we_o have_v no_o faith_n at_o all_o 11._o you_o likewise_o cite_v these_o word_n out_o of_o est_fw-la of_o de_fw-fr eccles_n mil._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 10_o §._o ad_fw-la haec_fw-la necesse_fw-la est_fw-la bellarmine_n the_o scripture_n tradition_n and_o all_o doctrine_n whatsoever_o depend_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n he_o mean_v say_v you_o that_o of_o rome_n without_o which_o all_o be_v whole_o uncertain_a but_o bellarmine_n word_n be_v these_o since_o the_o scripture_n tradition_n and_o all_o doctrine_n whatsoever_o depend_v upon_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n all_o thing_n will_v be_v uncertaync_a unless_o we_o be_v most_o assure_v which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n you_o see_v bellarmine_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n as_o you_o in_o your_o parenthesis_n will_v make_v he_o seem_v to_o speak_v and_o as_o for_o the_o universal_a true_a church_n what_o principle_n of_o atheis_fw-la i_o be_v it_o as_o you_o very_o exorbitant_o 145_o exorbitant_o pag._n 145_o affirm_v to_o say_v that_o if_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n we_o can_v have_v no_o certainty_n of_o scripture_n tradition_n or_o any_o thing_n else_o do_v you_o think_v that_o it_o be_v safe_a to_o take_v the_o scripture_n upon_o the_o credit_n of_o a_o false_a church_n as_o well_o may_v you_o take_v they_o upon_o the_o
infallibility_n because_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o she_o be_v the_o self_n same_o church_n which_o be_v found_v by_o our_o saviour_n christ_n and_o continue_v from_o the_o apostle_n to_o this_o age_n by_o a_o never_o interrupt_v succession_n of_o pastor_n and_o faithful_a people_n it_o follow_v that_o she_o be_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v once_o grant_v it_o be_v further_o infer_v that_o all_o be_v oblige_v to_o have_v recourse_n to_o she_o and_o to_o rest_v in_o her_o judgement_n for_o all_o other_o particular_a point_n which_o concern_v faith_n or_o religion_n which_o we_o can_v not_o be_v oblige_v to_o do_v if_o we_o be_v persuade_v that_o she_o be_v subject_a to_o error_n which_o yet_o be_v more_o evident_a if_o we_o add_v that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o rule_n give_v in_o what_o point_n we_o shall_v believe_v she_o and_o in_o what_o not_o and_o therefore_o we_o be_v oblige_v to_o believe_v she_o in_o all_o moreover_o since_o the_o true_a church_n must_v be_v 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most_o pure_a virgin_n that_o such_o particular_a matter_n and_o form_n be_v necessary_a for_o the_o validity_n of_o sacrament_n that_o such_o particular_a book_n chapter_n and_o line_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n with_o diverse_a such_o other_o point_n of_o all_o which_o we_o may_v say_v that_o which_o s._n augustine_n say_v about_o rebaptisation_n of_o heretic_n the_o obscurity_n of_o this_o question_n 7._o question_n lib._n 1._o cont_n donat_n cap._n 7._o before_o the_o schism_n of_o donatus_n do_v so_o move_v mon_fw-fr of_o great_a note_n and_o father_n and_o bishop_n endue_v with_o great_a charity_n to_o debate_v and_o doubt_n without_o breach_n of_o peace_n that_o for_o a_o long_a time_n in_o several_a region_n there_o be_v diverse_a and_o doubtful_a decree_n till_o that_o which_o be_v true_o believe_v be_v undoubted_o establish_v by_o a_o full_a council_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n and_o yet_o the_o point_n declare_v in_o that_o council_n be_v neither_o fundamental_a in_o your_o sense_n nor_o contain_v in_o scripture_n and_o to_o the_o same_o effect_n be_v the_o word_n of_o s._n ambrose_n who_o speak_v of_o the_o heretic_n condemn_v in_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a say_v that_o they_o be_v not_o condemn_v by_o humane_a 5._o humane_a lib._n 1._o defid_v ad_fw-la gratian_n cap._n 5._o industry_n but_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o those_o father_n as_o likewise_o the_o last_o general_n council_n of_o trent_n define_v that_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o church_n 4._o church_n 1._o sess_n 4._o to_o judge_v of_o the_o true_a sense_n and_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n which_o must_v needs_o suppose_v her_o infallibility_n and_o last_o the_o thirst_n that_o every_o one_o who_o desire_v to_o save_v his_o soul_n feel_v in_o his_o soul_n to_o find_v out_o the_o true_a church_n and_o the_o quiet_a which_o every_o one_o conceive_v he_o shall_v enjoy_v if_o once_o he_o find_v she_o show_v that_o the_o very_a sense_n and_o feel_v of_o all_o christian_n be_v that_o 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and_o pastor_n in_o which_o if_o one_o shall_v place_v a_o universal_a infallibility_n it_o be_v sufficient_a to_o overthrow_v your_o assertion_n of_o the_o fallibility_n of_o the_o church_n and_o even_o yourself_o teach_v that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o all_o fundamental_o and_o yet_o you_o affirm_v that_o any_o particular_a or_o general_n council_n may_v err_v even_o to_o heresy_n or_o fundamental_a and_o damnable_a error_n and_o therefore_o you_o must_v grant_v that_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o say_v general_n counsel_n may_v err_v and_o another_o that_o the_o catholic_a church_n may_v err_v but_o yet_o for_o the_o thing_n itself_o it_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n that_o true_a general_n counsel_n confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n can_v err_v and_o if_o any_o hold_v the_o contrary_a he_o can_v be_v excuse_v except_o by_o ignorance_n or_o inaduertence_n and_o as_o for_o the_o roman_a author_n which_o you_o cite_v occam_n be_v no_o competent_a witness_n both_o because_o that_o work_n of_o his_o dialogue_n which_o you_o cite_v be_v condemn_v and_o because_o he_o himself_o be_v a_o know_a enemy_n and_o rebellious_a against_o the_o sea_n apostolic_a beside_o the_o word_n which_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o he_o against_o the_o authority_n of_o counsel_n be_v not_o his_o opinion_n but_o allege_v for_o argument_n sake_n for_o so_o he_o profess_v express_o in_o the_o very_a preface_n of_o that_o work_n and_o often_o repeat_v it_o that_o he_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o deliver_v any_o opinion_n of_o his_o own_o three_o whereas_o he_o allege_v reason_n for_o and_o against_o counsel_n he_o allege_v but_o fine_a against_o they_o and_o seven_o for_o they_o last_o before_o he_o come_v to_o dispute_v against_o counsel_n he_o do_v in_o two_o several_a 28._o several_a dialog_n lib._n 5.1_o part_n cap._n 25._o etc._n etc._n 28._o place_n &_o in_o the_o very_a beginning_n of_o those_o chapter_n of_o which_o
learned_a man_n do_v dissent_v from_o they_o be_v not_o i_o pray_v you_o these_o and_o the_o like_a tradition_n upon_o which_o your_o hierarchy_n depend_v of_o some_o consequence_n and_o worth_a your_o labour_n to_o put_v they_o in_o a_o catalogue_n or_o do_v you_o not_o hold_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o apostle_n to_o be_v infallible_a true_a 23._o it_o be_v but_o a_o calumny_n to_o affirm_v that_o 163._o that_o pag._n 163._o we_o receive_v the_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n with_o no_o less_o devotion_n than_o the_o holy_a scripture_n for_o you_o cite_v 169._o cite_v pag._n 169._o that_o very_a place_n of_o bellarmine_n where_o he_o 12._o he_o de_fw-fr cont._n l._n 2._o cap._n 12._o set_v down_o at_o large_a five_o singular_a prerogative_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n above_o the_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n in_o which_o respect_n your_o fault_n be_v less_o excusable_a it_o be_v your_o own_o doctrine_n that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o all_o fundamental_o and_o yet_o you_o will_v not_o even_o in_o respect_n of_o such_o point_n equal_a her_o authority_n with_o that_o of_o holy_a scripture_n 24._o at_o length_n you_o come_v to_o teach_v that_o general_n counsel_n may_v err_v even_o damnable_o and_o yet_o you_o also_o teach_v that_o their_o authority_n be_v immediate_o 162_o immediate_o pag._n 162_o derive_v from_o christ_n and_o that_o their_o decree_n ibid._n decree_n ibid._n bind_v all_o person_n to_o external_a obedience_n but_o will_v you_o have_v man_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n external_o believe_v themselves_o &_o dissemble_v against_o their_o conscience_n and_o think_v that_o they_o do_v so_o by_o authority_n from_o christ_n the_o truth_n be_v that_o you_o may_v as_o well_o say_v the_o church_n be_v invisible_a as_o to_o say_v that_o her_o infallibility_n consist_v not_o in_o general_n counsel_n but_o in_o this_o that_o every_o member_n of_o the_o church_n can_v err_v damnable_o for_o towards_o the_o effect_n of_o instruct_v man_n in_o doubt_n concern_v faith_n all_o come_v to_o one_o effect_n and_o with_o what_o colour_n of_o truth_n do_v you_o say_v pag._n 164.165_o that_o you_o give_v general_n counsel_n much_o more_o respect_n then_o do_v most_o of_o our_o adversary_n since_o catholic_n believe_v they_o to_o be_v infallible_a which_o you_o deny_v 25._o but_o you_o will_v glad_o prove_v that_o counsel_n be_v fallible_a because_o they_o be_v discursive_a in_o their_o deliberation_n and_o 167._o and_o pag._n 167._o use_v the_o weight_n &_o moment_n of_o reason_n for_o the_o draw_v out_o of_o conclusion_n from_o their_o principle_n wherein_o it_o be_v confess_v they_o may_v mistake_v 26._o it_o be_v true_a we_o grant_v that_o the_o church_n coin_n no_o new_a revelation_n but_o only_o declare_v such_o to_o we_o as_o have_v be_v already_o deliver_v in_o the_o write_v or_o unwritten_a word_n of_o god_n to_o find_v which_o out_o she_o use_v mean_n by_o search_v out_o true_a record_n of_o antiquity_n by_o discuss_v 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even_o this_o council_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o say_v with_o he_o that_o james_n who_o 29._o who_o in_o assert_v art_n 29._o opinion_n the_o whole_a council_n follow_v change_v the_o verdict_n of_o peter_n who_o judgement_n that_o the_o gentile_n shall_v not_o be_v constrain_v to_o observe_v the_o jewish_a ceremonic_n be_v most_o true_a &_o consequent_o the_o opinion_n of_o james_n and_o the_o council_n can_v not_o be_v true_a you_o grant_v as_o i_o must_v often_o put_v you_o in_o mind_n that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o fundamental_a point_n must_v she_o therefore_o use_v no_o industry_n to_o attain_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o such_o point_n and_o protestant_n who_o hold_v scripture_n to_o be_v the_o only_a rule_n of_o faith_n use_v mean_n of_o confer_v text_n consult_v the_o original_n prayer_n etc._n etc._n for_o attain_v the_o true_a meaning_n of_o scripture_n and_o yet_o you_o will_v not_o grant_v that_o your_o faith_n be_v fallible_a because_o you_o will_v say_v 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by_o the_o latter_a have_v be_v answer_v a_o hundred_o time_n and_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o you_o have_v read_v bellarmine_n who_o 6._o who_o de_fw-fr couc_n lib._n 1._o cap._n 6._o show_v that_o the_o second_o council_n of_o ephesus_n proceed_v unlawful_o wherein_o s._n flavianus_n bishop_n of_o constantinople_n be_v murder_v by_o the_o faction_n of_o dioscorus_n and_o the_o pope_n legate_n be_v drive_v away_o and_o final_o the_o eutichian_a heresy_n be_v confirm_v for_o which_o cause_v that_o council_n be_v annul_v by_o pope_n leo._n you_o have_v pick_v out_o a_o pretty_a example_n to_o prove_v that_o lawful_a counsel_n confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v to_o the_o word_n of_o s._n augustine_n bellarmine_n answer_v that_o primò_fw-la that_o de_fw-fr consul_n lib._n 2._o c._n 7._o §._o respondeo_fw-la primò_fw-la either_o they_o be_v understand_v of_o unlawful_a counsel_n such_o as_o be_v the_o second_o of_o ephesus_n or_o else_o they_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o 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i_o have_v cite_v