begin with an O yes still for fear least no man would not heed what ye say and did they heed you rightly they would take heed how they read your writings I hope you are more just in your cases of conscience 1. You acknowledge part of the truth but not all here are three sorts expressed and differenced clearly in their feeding why do not you ingeniously confesse it or deny it by argument but you confesse only what will serve your owne turne this will not availe in the day of Christ 2. You have two sorts of feeding the one with meat the other with rule yet both sorts are fed alike but Sir where is the third what is it or is it not in the Text or are you not willing to have it there or known it is there and then the Lambs are fed with Doctrine Sheep with rule 3. These are recommended to one man but was he not an extraordinary officer and were they not several administrations given unto him 4. If I prove the office from the Scripture by institution practise and continuance how can you say it is a new coyned office you have not one of these to shew for your single Nationall Church ministry in all the book of Christ yea in the Name of Christ either prove your call and ministry or lay it downe or this will be a witnesse against you at the last day Dr. If this be your clearest proof it is clear you have no proof at all but make your fancy and wrong application of the Text all your proof this proves no more then that Peter was fully re-installed unto his office and that notwithstanding his threefold deniall he was againe thrice admitted to his charge â—nd to all the objects and parts of it Resp Sir to all understanding men you clear up the truths of my Treatise and bring a darknesse on your selfe and judgement what twelve moneths time to find out Peters re-instalement and to put in a few empty lines and to put it in againe and againe you should have put it in a little further off if that were it you aimed at but Sir pray what do you make of Peter a Pope indeed or I pray Sir tell me what expresse Scripture have you to prove that Peter lost or was put out of his Apostleship or if you will his Bishops See that he was now re-installed and that nothing else but his three-fold re-instalment must be understood in this place I believe you had this from some Popish Priest or Postill pray Sir at the call of any of the Apostles had they a three-fold instalement as you here set downe if not why should they have it at their re-instalment had Christ prayed that Peters faith should not faile before he fell and shall his Episcopacy Sir I know none that lost his Episcopacy but Judas of the Apostles you are in a Popish dream the Lord awaken you are there several feedings of which one sort are fed with rule only good Mr Doctor P. 22. 2 Cor. 6.1 Dr. The Apostles meaning is that men worke together with God that is every minister is in his own work subordinate unto God it is then impertinent to make this inference it is not the work of one man alone many men may work in one and the same worke and one may have diverse workes as the objects differ one Shepheard maâ—â— at one time feed both Lambs and Sheep Resp Sir Hereunto I have not had 14 houres time to copy out your breviary and returne you this Answer in a little longer time I should deal better with you but any rational man that wil look on the Text and see your falaciousnesse may tract you and know you you say the meaning is that men worke togâ—ther 1. What men 1 Cor. 1.19 are they not we Paul Silvanus and Timothy or what were they 2. Where did they work was it not in the Church of Corinth 3. How did they work was it not together in ministry Now to this you seem to agree but then after in your after exposition because you feared the former like fire that might burn your double doctrine you fly to an exposition quite contrary to truth that serves your selfe every eie may see where you were going and as for part of the inferences they are like your doctrine corrupt and none of mine it is your chief art and skill to man inferences you make none good of your owne nor deduce those honestly mine P. 23. He that plants and he that waters are one 1 Cor. 3.8 Dr. By one in this place is not meant so much the ministry as the efficacy and vertue thereof that is they are as to the bringing forth of the effect as one thing that is of no efficacy but only outward instruments servants of God Resp 1. I cannot but admire how men do befoole themselves when they fight against the truth saith he they are as to the bringing forth of the effect as one and the same thing that is of nâ— efficacy it is learnedly cleared 2. Consider this is first spoke of Paul and Apollo and here relates to them and their ministry in the pronoun quis and after more clearly in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is unum â—â—ministerium againe every one hath his own reward according to his owne labour ver 9. we are labourers together now judge if here be not intended onely Ministers and Ministry and the Doctors glosse very spurious and corrupt worse then whimsicall P. 23. 2 Cor. 1.15 That in no constituted Church we read of no more but three in fellowship of Ministry ordinarily Dr. These are weake conjectures and can make no such in probability as are inferred on them Resp I beseech the Reader see I propose texts of Scripture and affirme that in no constituted Church were more or should be lesse the Doctor cannot disprove it by the word that confirms it abundantly and therefore he shakes it off with a conjecture only pray see of what authority the Scripture is with these kind of men â—or â—y â— Church patterne in the Gospel P. 23. We do that never Apostle did doe Dr. Was not Peter bound by the charge that was given him to feed both Lambs and Sheep as well the young as the old by giving them their meat and ruling them Resp 1. As Apostle he had this charge but this warrants not us in our practise being ordâ—â—â—â—â— ministers by a ordinary call 2. The Apostles had â—uthority for all that from them authority may be communicated to others in an ordinary way 3. Ordinarily and so I intend no Apostle did the whole ministery what meanes the mentioning of their co-workers so oft else and that of Acts 10.48 Dr. I say that every one that is called to the Ministry is bound to do all that God doth inable him to doe both to Teach and to Rule as the occasions do require his service Resp 1. You have Mr Doctor a dixi for it if
that they are so ordinary as to be any where but in a true visible Constituted Church only which hath or ought to have the Evangelist also in ordinary As to the Question I Answer there hath not been this 1240 year a visible Church in which rightly have been the true Church ministry and right Church constitution though there hath been an invisible Church through all the time in the world 1 Cor. 12.28 God hath placâ—d in the Church these but not out of the Church Dr. The warrant we have is a lawful call to the ministry the Apostle James doth forbid a masterly elusorious way of teaching as is clear by the whole sequel of his discourse Resp Sir The smoke of the Temple offends your eyes yet ye cannot see clearly your Church is no true Church nor that it is as you found the Antichrist of Rome leave it and is no better for its constitution then Rome's Church is Now such as your Church is your call is and such your ministry It is true Indeed James forbids a masterly Teaching and such is yours Sir for you Teach in the Church so by your single Ministry as you have no example in the Scripture for it As for James his Church Church ministry there spoke of was the same with yours not a company of Saints but adulteresses and adulterers Jam. 4.4 persecutors and blasphemers James 2.6 7. their tongues set one fire of hel ful of cursing and bitterness Chap. 3.6 9 and no where called a Church in his Epistle Sir it seemes the more I rub your eyes the worse the smoke troubles youâ— John's first Epistle was written to another manner of Society Dr. It is true Paul did all because every officer of a superiour degree hath authority to do the actions of the inferiour but where are we forbidden to teach must not a minister be chosen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Tim. 3.12 Resp 1. He did them all until the Church was constituted where he was but when he had others to Teach and labour with him he took not their worke out of their hands 1 Cor. 1.14 thus Peter Acts 10.48 2. That ye are forbidden to Teach without a lawfull call that is Anticristian 〈…〉 yeâ— you are forbid to Teach as you doe 2 Cor. 10.13 we that is Paul Silvanus Timothy 2 Cor. 1.19 in the name of the full Church ministry Paul saith we wil not boast of things without our measure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mr Doctor pray observe in one Church every minister hath a measure allowed him to Teach by which is laid out as by a rule of which in ministry every man is not to take what he wil as you do but God hath parted to each ministry his doctrine in the Church yea to the Apostles when they taught as ordinary Teachers and to those that taught with them to which Paul alludes 1 Thes 2.4 as we were allowed of God there is a Gospel allowance to Teachers what they should Teach and yet Bishops chosen by teaching that doctrine he was to be called to teach in the Church and not by others P. 10. Dr. Here is no mention of an Evangelist at all how then is it proved hence that he is a perpetual and assistant minister in the Church and if as he saith The Apostle doth speak here of publique Church Ministry and doth not name an Evangelist in it then the argument is strong against him that an Evangelist is not an ordinary publique minister Resp Mr Doctor seems profoundly to argue in this place against nothing pray consider it 1. That in this Scripture Rom. 12.6 7 8. is not mentioned the name of Prophet Pastor or Teacher which he cannot deny but yet are implyed here but because the Evangelist is not set down therfore he hath no place at all though the other may have having the Doctor 's leave 2. The Prophet in prophesy which was before him is implyed and the Pastour in his work of exhortation that comes after him and the Doctor in teaching is implyed And there is Ministry for one in the Evangelist's place but he must not be there unlesse he be set down an Evangelist though all teaching and his emmenter may be called Ministry Sir here cannot be understood any other Church-Teacher whatever nor your Church-Deacon or supposed Elder these follow in vers 8. in giving and ruling Sir I pray take heed of your taking too much liberty in making the Scripture speak against themselves if you forbear that I am sure they will not speak for you at all here Dr. This is a silly and irregular thought for how can a Church be constituted before God give gifts Shall we make Evangelists before God makes them All Pastors and Teachers are in a generall sent Evangelists that is publishers of the Gospel but not in a peculiar sent as he would have the Evangelist to be Resp Reader the cause of the Doctor breaking out into this silly cry is for that in my Book pag. 10. is written whereas the Apostle saith there be divers gifts from this Rom. 12. I think if ever a Church were rightly constituted greater gifts would be bestowed on men then since the Apostles 1. The Doctor understands not that God hath distinguished the Church gift from the Heavenly gift the Church gifts are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which are given to men by the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the divine gift God had given them to minister the Church gift by which is the severall cals of the Church ministry Evangelists Pastors Teachers and thus indeed the Church is not to make before God hath made them but after 2. For what cause the Doctor troubles himself about Pastors and Teachers being Evangelists having before written of it and so few unworthy observations of a Doctor and up with it so often shews he wanted matter to object and that the man is mightily troubled about the Evangelist in his mind Dr. This Paragraph is to me a piece of nonsense for I knew not what he would say in it or how it is coherent with this former discourse Resp If the Doctor be silly as he makes himself I wonder he would take upon him in so unworthy a way to send down his notions in so secret a way to disgrace me and my writings privately amongst the ignorant multitude it had been more honour having been provoked to the presse or print to have published some worthy work in defence of their Presbyterian Government set out in the Propositions which I printed against or against that form of Church Government I added to it or prove their Government by the practice of the Primitive Church and disprove that in my Treatise of the resurrection of faln Churches and not in seeking to correct truth for errour in a Book make ten errours when he proves none but the not understood nonsense he talks of is in this The Church ministry is set out oft times by one word in
the Doctor could not understand it or rather would not as being a fine way of evasion it had been his wisest way to have done thus with all that he could not obâ—ect against which is materially against him as the rest P. 32. 1 Tim. 3.14 Dr. This place is neither rightly alledged nor applied rightly to the Apostles scope Resp The former part of the words were not truely Printed the latter which hath that which was intended are rightly obtained to themselves a good degree in the house of God which was to shew that any office in the house of God was of great honour and men should be content with any therein though the lowest P. 34. Heb. 14.17 Dr. The Apostle writes to all the Hebrews in the world Resp Mr Doctor how doth this appear I wil not take your word for it was Heb. 5.12 said to the Jewes of all the world or chap. 12.22 Dr. These had many leaders in several Congregations and he desires them respectively to be subject to them that is that each Congregation should submit to â—â—â— r â—wn Resp Mr Doctor Doth Paul write as John to the seven Churches or Peter to the dispersed in Galatia Capadocia c. that you dare affirm this you doe on these tearms and at last for your parochiall liberty or all were lost Doctor From hence you will infer because the word Leaders is in the plurall number that every congregation hath many leaders which is very weak Resp From whence shall I inferre but from the Scriptures James 5.14 and I provoke you to shew in all the Scripture where the whole Church Ministry are spoken of of any Church and are not set down in the plurall number and M. Dr. to say they should be in every Congregation is a conclusion of your own and none of mine I say in every Church as for the weaknesse of it I know it is not the weaker for your blowing on it But M. Doctor What think you of Acts 14.23 they ordained them Elders in every Church 1. these not Nationall Churches 2. Nor were they Elders ordained Doct. Then you say that these leaders are to be meant by the ministring officers and not ruling Elders by verse 7. but that verse doth speak of those that guide and rule _____ and no ruling Elders should be no others then such as are able to speak the word on occasion nor should those that speak the word be without a guiding and ruling authority for the leading is to be according to the word and by it which makes the Doctor and the Pastor to be the same Resp Mr Dr. the _____ are all here spoken of either ruling Elders or teaching Elders I speak according to your own distinstion but that they are teaching and not ruling Elders verse 7. They have spoken to you the word and for that conceit that the ruling Elder should be such 1. I require you to sâ—ew me the constitution of ruling Elders 2. The command or practice that any was to or did do such a thing if not Sir you doe but undervalue your selfe to write such things at all 3. You come with your old device and find away out of this text and every text to make the Doctor and Pastor â—nâ— but let me mind you if by divine institution they are two you wrong the truth and your self and the Church also to make them one and here spoke of as of diverse persons Sir I shall ingeniously confesse that of all the books I ever read of my little reading I never read any man that endeavoured to make Pastor and Teacher one as you have all along done and altogether opposite to the truth yea the Assembly propositions Adeo dat Eph. 4.11 the two last ordinary and perpetuall that is the Pastor and Doctor Wollebius Pastores Ecclesiis Doctores Scholis Praefecti Eph. 4.11 Arminius disp Theol. Corrol 59. mâ—diate vocati Pastores Doctores Episcopi Praesbyteri qui certis Ecclesiis sunt praefecti Calvini Just lib. 4. cap. 4. ex ordine Praesbyterorum partim eligebantur Pastores Doctores Bilson Vide Zanch praecep 4. cap. 19. and the Churches practice in New-England Pag. 35. People Ministers and ordinary ministry Doct. O these allusions and applications are no proofs of the point Resp which Dionysius they are as I have since the writing of my book read to good satisfaction and many more of the Antients though the Doctor saith it is nought P. 35. That the man of God may be perfect 2. Tim. 3.16 17. Doctor This perfection is the end and effect of the foregoing usefulnesse of the Scripture and from thence is to be inferred that by the Doctors and Pastors office rightly used the man of God will become perfect Resp M. Doctor Why do ye not adde the Evangelists offici you may as well for the Doctor nor Pastors office is not rightly used in your Presbytery but these rightly used with the Evangelist through the effect and usefulnesse of the Scripture make the man of God perfect Doctor And therefore none other distinct office in ordinary is requisite to infer because the word perfection is here used that therefore an Evangelists office is intimated as a meer fancy Resp 〈◊〉 Doctor 〈◊〉 Pastor is not mentioned yet they are allowed but there is no allowance for an Evangelist an ordinary Church-minister no less of God intended then the rest but is still cast off by Mr Doctor for and with the reproach of fancy notion whimsy P. 36. Evangelized Christian man Doctor What this Evangelized Christian man is distinct from him that is taught and governed I know not neither do I believe you can shew Resp M. Dr. As in Adam so in Christ there are differing statures you may being a rationall man understand the one by the other now as he differs in stature from children so should the administrations differ that are administred in the Church to him accordingly 2. That this Evangelized Christian should differ from one taught and governed by the Gospel is a conceite of your own and none of mine P. 26. 1. Doctrine is not for all but babes only 2. Exhortation for young men only Evangelical ministry for perfect men only Doctor Is not the teacher and the exhorter a Gospel minister this is a fancy indeed which hath no ground Resp Mr Dr. See Rom. 12.6 7. Prophesie is for the Prophet ministry for the Evangelist Teaching for the Teacher exhortation for the exhorter and is not the exhorter or teacher a minister in this place and is not this a fancy the Apostle speaks in this place or what saith the other then said before P. 36. 1 Cor. 4.1 Of that men are Ministers they are stewards onely the Dr. of doctrinall part the Pastor of the pastorall c. Doctor Is not the doctrinall of the Evangelicall part of ministry Resp The Gospel ministry is Evangelicall all but is divided into three parts by God in the Gospel one being not more Evangelicall then the other Doctor Why do you leave out the practicall which is the Pastorall charge Resp It s well you are so sensible as to misse one in my writing you doe not miss two in your Church one is enough you know not what to doe with any more but see Mr Dr. 2 Tim. 1.12 puts down Apostle the first of the Church ministry and Dr. of the last and under these comprehends the rest and will you not allow me this if not I will take it Dr. There is no more requisite but faith and obedience which two are wrought out by the doctorall and pastorall administrations what use is there of this Imaginary part of the Exangelist distinct from both Resp Mr Dr. Faith and obedience are ministred under Teacher Pastor Evangelist one as well as the other according to the capacity of those are taught each one by degrees perfecting Faith and Obedience in the Saints the Doctors Teachers faith and obedience to Saints as children the Pastor as young men the Evangelist as strong men and not as the Doctor dreams one teacheth faith onely the oâ—her obedience Thus the Dr. having done with my book I have done with him untill he please to rejoyn and begin again only this I commend to thee Reader that that which followeth in my Book did more particularly strike at presbytery which the Doctleft to some other to do or to some other time to do or afraid it may be it would trouble his mind to study it or what ever it was he thought he had done enougâ— in this for once and so have I at this time Vale. If thou hast any knowledge of thâ— truth of the Gospel hereby at all FINIS