me vtique tu scis Domine quia amo te Dicit ei Iesus pasce agnos meos Bene conscius sui non ad tempus assumptum sed iam dudum Deo cognitum Petrus testificatur affectum Quis est enim alius qui de se hoc facilè profiteri possit Et ideo quia solus profitetur ex omnibus omnibus antefertur Our Lorde asked that question of Peter whether he loued him not to learne but to teache him whom being to be lifted vp into heauen he leaft vnto vs The Pope is leaft to vs as the Vicare of Christes loue tovvard vs. as the Vicare of his loue that is to saie in plainer termes such a one as should be in steede of Christe in those thinges that for his tender loue towardes vs he would vs to haue For euen so thou hast in the Ghospel Simon the sonne of Iohn louest me Yea verely thou knowest Lorde that I loue thee Iesus saieth vnto him Feede my lambes Peter here knowing right wel the secretes of his owne conscience professeth that his good affection whiche he bare to Christe was not nowe entred into him for the present time but that God knew it long before For who is the man elles that may soone professe this much of him selfe And therefore in asmuch as he onely of al professeth it he is preferred before al. Lo M. Iewel by this you maie see I spake not of this matter altogether of myne owne head and without farther autoritie S. Ambrose saith in effect so much as I said That Christ for so much as he should ascende into heauen and withdrawe his visible presence from vs leaâ—â— behinde him for our behoofe S. Peter as Vicare of his loue Nowe of this I may conclude for so muche as Christe who died for our loue and redemed vs with his bloude ceasseth not to loue vs that he leafte not onely Peter to be the Vicare of his loue for his owne life only but also Peters Successours for euer that is to saie the Popes for other Peters Successours we knowe not Arnobius likewise vnderstaÌ„deth this supreme charge and auctoritie to be geuen vnto Peter and therefore consequently vnto Peters Successours applying the same texte of Scripture to that purpose These be his wordes Arnobius in Psalm 138. Iohan. 10. Iohan. 21. Nullus Apostolorum nomen Pastoris accepit Solus enim Dominus Iesus Christus dicebat ego sum Pastor bâ—nus iterum me inquit sequunturoues meae Hoc ergo nomen sanctum ipsius nominis potestatem post resurrectionem suam Petropoenitenti concessit ter negatus negatori suo hanc quam solus habuit tribuit potestatem None of the Apostles hath receiued the name of Pastor or shepeheard For our Lorde Iesus Christe alone said I am a good Shepeheard And againe my shepe saith he folow me So then this holy name and the power of the name our Lorde after his resurrection gaue to Peter being repentant and being thrise denied he gaue the auctoritie whiche he had alone vnto his denier Peter by the three fold coÌ„maundement of feeding muste feede al sortes of the Flock the laÌ„bes the youÌ„g litle Sheepe and the great Sheepe S. Ambrose according to the worde of coÌ„mission spokeÌ„ to Peter thrise repeted feede feede feede noteth three degrees of authoritie to be exercised in feeding Iam non agnos vt primò quodam lacte vescendos nec oniculas vt secundò sed oues pascere iubetur perfectiores vt perfectior gubernaret Now that is to say when Christe said at the thirde time Feede Peter is not commaunded to feede lambes that are to be fed with a certaine milke as at the first time nor is he commaunded to feede the litle sheepe as at the second time but the Sheepe he is commaunded to feede that the perfiter should gouerne them that are of the perfiter sorte That learned Father S. Leo saith Leo epist ad Episcopos per prouinciaÌ„ Viennen constitut Cùm Petro prae caeteris soluendi ligandisit tradita potestas pascendarum tamen ouium cura specialius mandata est Whereas the power to loose and binde was deliuered vnto Peter aboue the reste yet the charge of feeding the Shepe is committed to him more specially The same S. Leo saith of Peter in an other place Non solùm Romanae sedis sed omnium Episcoporum nouerunt esse primatem As for Peter they knowe him not onely to be chiefe ruler of the See of Rome but also the Primate of al Bishops Peter primate of al Bisshoppes Serm. 2. in Aniuers Assumpt What shal I allege S. Gregorie whose woordes be most manifest He acknowlegeth S. Peter and therefore euery Bishop of Rome his Successour to haue the charge of the whole Churche by coÌ„mission of Christ alleging to that purpose the wordes for alleging of whiche you blame me as though I did it of mine owne selfe without farther authoritie Thus he saith Epist 32. Cunctis Euangelium scientibus liquet c. It is euident to al that knowe the Gospel that the cure and charge of the whole Church hath ben committed by the word of our Lorde to the holy Apostle Peter prince of al the Apostles For to him it is said Peter Ioan. 22. Luc. 22. louest thou me feede my shepe to him it is said Beholde Sathan hath desired to sifte you as it were wheate and I haue praied for thee Peter that thy faith faile not Math. 16. And thou being once conuerted strengthen thy brethren To him it is said Thou 〈◊〉 Peter and vpon this rocke I wil builde my Churche and the gates of Hel shal not preuaile against it And vnto thee I wil geue the keies of the kingdome of Heauen And whatsoeuer thou bindest vpon earth shal be bound also in heauen and what so euer thou lowsest on earthe shal be lowsed also in heauen Beholde he receiueth the keies of the heauenly kingdome the power of binding and lowsing is geuen to him the charge of the whole Churche and principallitie is committed to him And here I wil adde that foloweth in S. Gregorie tamen vniuersalis Apostolus non vocatur and yet he is not called the vniuersal Apostle least M. Iewel finde great faulte with me Replie 225. as he doth in his Replie for leauing it out and least once againe he feine that I haue the Chinecoughe and that I set S. Gregorie to schoole Gregor lib. 6. epistol 37. and keepe him in awe and suffer him not to tel more then I wil geue him leaue and many suche gaie good morowes that needed not at al. The same S. Gregorie writeth in much like sorte to Eulogius Bisshop of Alexandria Leauing al other Fathers that might here to this purpose be alleged Bernardus lib. 2. de Consideratione for breuities sake I wil ende with S. Bernarde who writeth thus to Eugenius Other pastours haue their flockes assigned vnto them eche man one
muche as Priestes there sate in the Church where Deacons vsed to stande and the Deacons neuer durste to sitte emonge the Priestes Hiero. in eadeÌ„ epistol ad eÌ„uagriuÌ„ whiles the Bisshop was present Although he confesseth that once in the Bishoppes absence he sawe a Deacon when disorder tooke place sitting emong the Priestes and at priuate Feastes in priuate houses geuing the benediction to Priestes Whereby it is manifest that the preferring of Deacons aboue Priestes rose not of any ordinarie custome of the Churche of Rome where al states best keept due order in the Bisshoppes presence but of the priuate pride of some Deacons and of the simplicitie of the people of that Citie Therefore S. Hierome saith not Quid mihi profers Romanae Ecclesiae consuetudinem why bringest me forth the custome of the Romaine Churche but Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis consuetudinem Why bringest me the custome of one Citie The ignorant people made more of the Deacons Euseb lib. 6. Eccles histor ca. 33. bicause they were but fewe in number to wit but only seuen at one time as Eusebius maketh mention whereas at that time there were six and fortie Priestes in that Churche whom the people as S. Hierome saith for the number had in contempte Vbicunque fuerit Episcopus siue Romae siue Eugubij siue CoÌ„stantinopoli siue Rhegij siue Alexandriae siue Tanis eiusdem meriti eiusdem est sacerdotij Beholde Reader how M. Iewel hath translated this sentence Where so euer there be a Bisshop be it at Eugubium be it at Rome be it at Constantinople be it at Rhegium be it at Alexandria be it at Tanis they are al of one worthinesse they are al of one Bisshoprike Where the nominatiue case Episcopus Bishop being of the singulare number so placed by S. Hierome with the verbe Est also of the singular number bicause it serued not M. Iewels turne guilfully in translation a change is made into the plural and thereby the meaning of the sentence cleane altered to thintent the sentence might so the rather sounde to his purpose whiche is to make al Bishoppes equal in authoritie of rule and gouernment Now S. Hieromes wordes doo signifie that a Bishop is of the same Merite and of the same Priesthood whether he be Bishop of a great Citie or of a litle And here is to be noted that M. Iewel can not yet brooke this worde Merite and whereas before he vsed the worde Preeminence being by me admonished of it now he translateth eiusdem est meriti they are al of one worthinesse Likewise he termeth eiusdem sacerdotij of one Bishoprike for of one Priesthood How so euer you bring in S. Hierome for the equalitie of Priestes with Bishoppes it forceth not It is wel knowen S. Hierome neuer dreamed of suche an equalitie as you would haue when he wrote this sentence Ecclesiae salus in summi sacerdotis dignitate pendet Hieron aduersus Luciferainos cui si non exors quaedam ab omnibus eminens detur potestas tot in Eccesia efficientur schismata quot sacerdotes The sauegarde of the Churche dependeth vpon the dignitie of the highest Bishop vnto whom if a peerelesse and supreme power be not yelded there shal arise so many Schismes in the Churche as there be Priestes If God haue a special regarde to the safetie of the Churche and if the Churche can not be safe without there be a peerelesse and a supreme power yeelded vnto the highest Priest whiche is a Bishop as S. Hierome saith what so euer M. Iewel saie to the contrarie God must needes allowe the hauing of suche Bishoppes as shal haue power peerelesse to rule their flockes not onely their lambes but also their sheepe to witte the Clergie the Priestes and the Deacons vnder them Hieron Lib. 1. aduersus IouinianuÌ„ He saith also Propterea inter duodecim vnus eligitur vt capite constituto schismatis tollatur occasio Therefore is there one chosen emong the twelue saith S. Hierome who should be made Head that the occasion of Schisme might be taken away And that we should be put out of doubte who chose that one to be Head aboue al the reste and why Peter was rather chosen then Iohn that was so deerely beloued S. Hierome saith delatum est aetati partly in consideration of his age and partly bicause he would deliuer Iohn from the enuie that he should haue incurred if he had benne placed in that roome being so yong a man M. Iewel had neede to looke better vpon his booke and to learne by these places better to tempre the other sayinges of S. Hierome S. Hierome saith vnitie can not be kepte the Churche can not be in sauegarde Schismes can not be suppressed by equalitie of Priestes with Bishoppes Ergo there must be Bishoppes that shal haue power to rule the Priestes and the reste Thus M. Iewels equalitie wil not stande with the doctrine of S. Hierome Although saith S. Augustine after the names of honours now vsed in the Church the state of a Bishop be greater August Epist 19. then the state of a Prieste yet in many thinges Augustine is lesse then Hierome Notwithstanding we ought not to refuse and disdaine to be corrected of any man though he be our inferiour Vpon these wordes of S. Augustine M. Iewel reasoneth that the difference of power and authoritie betwixte Bishoppes and Priestes had no allowance from Scripture but by the custome of the Churche As though one thing could not be allowed both in Scripture and also by the common custome of the Churche The common custome of the Churche teacheth vs to feare God daily doth not the Scripture allowe the same To honour our Father and mother And doth not the Scripture commaunde the same But M. Iewel would faine make debate betwixt the custome of the Churche and the holy Scripture and therefore ful prouidently he hath interlaced a Parenthesis of his owne politike deuise in this manner The office of a Bisshop is aboue the office of a Prieste not by authoritie of the Scriptures but after the names of honour whiche the custome of the Churche hath now obteined I haue here before declared that there was a secte of Heretiques calles Aerians as S. Augustine reporteth who denied that there was any difference at al betwen the state of a Bisshop and the state of a Prieste August de Haresib ad Quoduult deuÌ„ Haeres 53. whiche opinion being accompted for heresie by S. Augustine ought to stop any reasonable mans mouth and to persuade him that S. Augustines opinion is quite contrarie to that which M. Iewel holdeth Iewel Pag. 1â—1 As for Pope Leo his ovvne authoritie in his ovvne cause can not be great The Emperour saithe Nemo debet sibi ius dicere ff Li. 2. de Iurisdict omniuÌ„ Iudicum 16. q. 6. Consuetudo in margine No man maie minister lavve vnto him selfe And it is noted thus in the Decrees Papa non
debet esse iudex in causa propria The Pope maie not be iudge in his ovvne cause Harding The Pope maie be iudge in the cause of the Churche Though Leos Authoritie be not greate in his ovvne cause The .29 Chapt. yet in the cause of the Churche being so auncient so holy so learned a Father by your owne graunt it must be very great The wordes you bring are of your owne forging Wherefore as ye haue hitherto benne a forger of Doctours Scriptures the Canon lawe and Gloses so now you are become a forger of the Ciuile lawe With what wordes the lawe is written here anonne you shal see But be it true that Vlpian said for so you should haue said The Emperour alleged for Vlpian and not the Emperour as your skil in the lawe vnskilfully telleth vs no man maie minister lawe vnto himselfe Yet neither he not the Emperour euer forbad but that a man maie truely reporte of his owne matters Now Pope Leo that holy man and great learned Clerke in the place by me alleged doth not minister lawe vnto him selfe in his owne cause but for the better gouernement of the Churche and that peace and good order maie the better be kepte in the Churche reporteth a difference or diuersitie of power to be emong Bishoppes with likenesse of Order and honour as S. Hierome in his epistle to Euagrius coÌ„fesseth them to be of one merite and of one Priestehood In declaring whereof he speaketh of the right that the Bishoppes of the See Apostolique S. Peters successours ought to haue in the gouernment of the vniuersal Church through out the whole worlde This M. Iewel was not his owne priuate cause but the cause of the whole Churche in whiche he might geue iudgement But M. Iewel guilfully seemeth to put the case as though there had ben many Catholiques that called Pope Leo to lawe for vsurping the authoritie not dewe vnto him and as thoughe he had ben defendant against them al yea as thoughe he had stepte vp into his iudgement seate and there sitting as a Iudge in his owne mater had pronunced sentence for him selfe Whiche thing he did not nor euer was there any catholique man that laid any suche kinde of vsurpation to his charge he neuer stoode as defendant nor sate as Iudge in his owne cause but discretely and truely as occasion serued signified vnto the worlde his lawful authoritie and his â—uccessours as Kinges vse to doo in their titles of honour and stiles If M. Iewel wil calle his double wiued lawier vnto him and with him peruse the lawe that beginneth Qui Iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet â— Qui iu risdiccioni ff de iurisdict omn. iudic neque vxori vel liberis suis c. whiche is the true lawe that he should haue alleged and wil consider that Princes Kinges and Emperours vse to doo in their owne causes by very order of lawe and if he wil therewith searche out the right meaning of the lawe L. in priuatis ff de inoffic testamen In priuatis iudicus pater filium vel filius patrem iudicem habere potest he shal finde both that he hath fondely vainely and rashly alleged a lawe that he vnderstoode not nor made any thing to his purpose but onely to fil vp paper with wordes and also that it is one thing to saie Nemo debet sibi ius dicere as he falsely allegeth the Lawe and that it is a farre other thing to saie Qui iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet neque vxori vel liberis suis neque libertis vel caeteris quos secum habet For so is the lawe vttered by Vlpianus As for your marginal note out of the Decrees you shew how barrein and poore your mater is that for defence of it you are faine to runne for helpe to notes put in the margent of the Glose a very poore shifte God wote To your marginal note I answere The Pope as there the Glosse saith if there be a mater in lawe betwen him and an other man about a temporal thing ought not him selfe to be iudge in that case and to take the thing into his owne possession before it be tried whose it is but to choose Vmpeeres to sitte vpon it Now marke what followeth good Reader 16. q. 6. Consuetudo tamen si vult esse Iudex in causa Ecclesiae potest esse yet if he list to be a iudge in a mater concerning the Churche he maie be Certainely no one thing more concerneth the wealth tranquillitie and good order of the Churche then that whiche Leo intreateth of in the epistle 84. to Anastasius the Bishop of Thessalonica whiche in my Confutation to good purpose I alleged Iewel Pag. 111. Concil Aphricanum cap. 105. Superbum seculi typhuÌ„ It is vvel knovven that the Pope hath sought for and claimed this vniuersal authoritie these many hundred yeres Pope Innocentius vvas therefore reproued of pride and vvorldely lordelinesse by the vvhole Councel of Aphrica Harding The Aphrican Councel vntruly reported by M. Iewel The 30. Chapt. The Pope hath not sought for that whiche our Lorde gaue vnto S. Peter no more then S. Peter sought for it at Christes graunt The fame he maie iustely claime for so muche as it perteineth to the feeding and gouernement of Christes flocke and to the strengthning of the faithful as being the Successour of S. Peter That you saie of Innocentius is vtterly false He was not so reproued of pride and worldely Lordelinesse as more like a proud worldely Lordeling then an humble plaine handler of Goddes Truthe you saie Neither be those wordes superbum seculi typhum which you laie forth in your Margent to be founde in any Epistle of the Aphrican Councel to Innocentius nor be they spoken or written at al against Innocentius as you beare vs in hande Neither was Innocentius then a liue when the Aphrican Councel was holden but departed this life long before I graunt there is extant an epistle of the Aphrican Councel to the learned Pope Coelestinus in whiche Epistle Innocentius that blessed man is not once touched Neither was the charitie of that whole Councel so smal as to speake so il of a holy Bishop so long before departed The manner of those Fathers was to praie for suche specially for the Bishoppes of Rome deceassed rehearsing their names in their Masses and in no wise to reporte so il of them How be it in that whole epistle Pope Innocentius is not so muche as once named nor spoken of There we finde these three wordes fumosum typhum seculi that is to saie the smoky pride of the worlde or the vaine stoutenesse of the temporaltie but in a farre other sense and to an other purpose then M. Iewel pretendeth Whether he rightly vnderstode the place or no I haue good cause to doubte It seemeth that the Bishop of Rome in the cause of Appiarius whom
authoritie to any heresie or errour I denie vtterly neither shal M. Iewel or any of his felowes what so euer be hable to proue the contrarie That any where I haue tolde them sadly and in good earnest that the bishop of Rome is a king if he meane the expresse name of a King I tel him here eftsones sadly and in good earnest and without Saulue la vostre that it is a starke lye Confut. fol. 280. a. The pope hath kingly power yet is he no king In the first place of my Confutation by him coted I say The pope hath a kingly power ouer his owne subiectes euen in temporal thinges and now I tel you here for example he hath it as Moyses had yet he taketh not vpon him to be a King nor chalengeth vnto him that title Neither doth he in his owne person bicause he acknowlegeth him selfe to be no King exercise the function and office of a King but committeth such charge vnto other Laye persons If ye enuie the Pope his kingly power and possessions whiche he holdeth by right beware you be not at length thought vnworthy and remoued from the landes of a Baron and the Earledom of S. Osmunde whiche you holde vnduely If that happen to come to passe where then shal we finde your good Lordship In the other place of the Confutation vpon occasion geuen by wordes of the Apologie I say that the Pope maie rule temporally Confut. fol. 305. b. and more there say I not touching this matter Item there Iewel That vnto him belongeth the right of bothe Svvordes as vvel Temporal as spiritual Confut. fol. 247. b. Harding What so euer I bring in my Confutation concerning both Swordes committed vnto the Successour of S. Peter it is S. Bernardes it is not myne Wheras the Apologie maker were it M. Iewel or who so euer it was by the multitude of the light scoffes it appeareth that he was the Penneman of it mary the stuffe I heare say was gathered by the whole Brotherhead whereas I say he steppeth forth very peartly and saith thus Confut. fo 247. a. I haue a special fansie to common a worde or two with the Popes good Holinesse and to say these thinges vnto his owne face Tel vs I praie you good holy Father c. Which of the Fathers euer said that bothe the Swordes were committed vnto you To this question the answere I make in the Popes behalfe is this Confut. fo 247. b. L. Si quis C. d. test Of the Popes teÌ„poral Svvorde De Considerat li. 4 Math. 26. Let S. Bernard writing to a Pope answer for the Pope He is a sufficient witnesse Where your selfe doo allege him much against the Pope you can not by the lawe iustly refuse him speaking for the Pope The spiritual sworde you denie not I trowe Of the temporal sworde belonging also to the Pope thus saith S. Bernarde to Eugenius He that denieth this sworde to be thine seemeth to me not to consider sufficiently the worde of our Lorde saying thus to Peter thy predecessour put vp thy sworde in the scaberd The very same then is also thine to be drawen forth perhappes at thy becke though not with thy hande Elles if the same belonged in no wise vnto thee where as the Apostles said Lucae 22. The Churche hath both svvordes by S. Bernard beholde there be two swordes here Our Lorde would not haue answered it is yenough but it is to muche So bothe be the Churches the spiritual sworde and the material But this to be exercised for the Churche and that of the Churche That by the hande of the Priest this of the souldier but verely at the becke of the Priest and commaundement of the Emperour Thus touching the Popes bothe swordes you are fully answered by S. Bernarde I trust you wil not be so vncourteous as to put him beside nor so parcial as to allow him when he seemeth to make some shewe for you and to refuse him when he is found plaine contrarie to your false assertions Vpon this place of S. Bernarde M. Iewel in the Defence sitting forsooth M. Iewels graue sentence pronounced against S. Bernarde Defence pag. 528. Ibidem as it were vpon the Benche like a Iudge hauing power to geue sentence either of life or of death saith ful grauely and Iudgelike and pronounceth this sentence S. Bernarde saith The Pope hath bothe swordes But S. Bernardes authoritie in this case is but simple But why I praie you Sir Iudge Marke the cause and profounde reason of this Iudge He liued saith he eleuen hundred yeeres after Christes Ascension in the time of King Henry the first the King of England in the middes of the Popes route and tyrannie And shal we for this cause shake of S. Bernarde Then why maie we not as wel sitte in Iudgement vpon M. Iewel and in like sorte but with more reason pronounce this sentence M. Iewel saith the bodie of Christe is not in the Euchariste the bodie and bloude of Christe are not to be adored in the Sacrament The Churche hath no externall Sacrifice no external Priesthod Praier made for the dead is vaine and superstitious There be not seuen Sacramentes but onely two and by the same grace is not conferred or geuen but onely signified The Pope is Antichriste and al that holde the olde Faith of the Churche who are Papistes perteine to the Kingdome of Antichriste c. But M. Iewels authoritie in these cases is but simple He liued almost sixteen hundred yeeres after Christe and is yet aliue in the time of Quene Elizabeth the Quene of England in the middes of the Caluinistes route and tyrannie The same sentence with a smal change of wordes maie with like reason be pronounced vppon Luther Zuinglius Peter Martyr Bucer Caluine Beza Baudie Bale Hooper Cranmare and the rest of that wicked route It were a thing worthy to be knowen why S. Bernarde should be condemned in respecte of his age and of the route whiche this man telleth vs the Popes then bare and these Apostates should be beleeued and honoured with al mennes assent yelded to their sayinges and teachinges their age being foure hundred yeeres later the tyranny crueltie vilanie and outrage whiche in sundry places by them of that side is vsed farre surmounting any what so euer seueritie of gouernement whiche the Popes vsed in that time their learning not equal with the learning of S. Bernarde their witte muche inferiour to his of eithers vertue and good life what shal I speake To compare theirs with his it were a kinde of blasphemie so holy a Father was he so dissolute Apostates are these Item there Iewel That all kinges and Emperours receiue their vvhole povver at his hande and ought to svveare obedience and Fealtie to the Pope For these be his vvordes euen in this bâ—rke so boldly dedicated vnto your Maiestie It is a great eye soare saith M. Harding to the ministers of Antichriste to see the
many as be so farre accursed of God as to beleeue your wicked generation that ye neither entre in thither your selues nor suffer others to entre The place where the wordes be with whiche you would incense the Queenes wrath against me hath no general threats as you saie but conteine such true matter as I am not a shamed of confute it if you can verely in your Defence ye haue not done it Ye confounde saie I the offices of the spiritual Gouernours and temporal Magistrates What Kinges Confut. fol. 298. a. and Princes maie doo what they be commaunded to doo and ought of duetie to doo in Goddes name let them doo and wel maie they so doo Who is he that gainesaith If by the pretensed example of Dauid and Salomon ye animate them to intermedle with Bishoply offices then beware they saie we that Goddes Vengeance light not vpon them for such wicked presumption whiche lighted vpon king Ozias for the like offence 2. Par. 26. I marueil you denie that the Vengeance of God lighted vpon king Ozias for the like Presumption to that whereunto by your monstrous lawe and Doctrine ye animate your Princes Whiche parte denie you That Goddes Vengeance lighted vpon him Or that the Presumption is like For proufe of the Vengeance ye haue the plaine Scripture 2. Paralip 26. whiche saith that Ozias pounished for presumption as he would haue burned incense to our Lorde at the Aulter of the sweete perfume whiche belonged to the office of the Priestes only to doo a Lepre rose in his forehead whereupon the Priestes draue him out of the Temple and he himselfe also made hast that he were gonne out 2. Par. 26 saith the texte eo quòd sensisset illicò plagam Domini for that streight waie he felte the plague of our Lorde Touching the Presumption it is like For in bothe it is an vndue geuing of aduenture to doo that thing which belongeth to Bishoply Priestly auctoritie aÌ„d power geuen vnto the Quene by the Parlament and priestly office And what is that which Bishoppes and Priestes maie doo whiche ye haue not by your Acte of Parlament geuen the Quene auctoritie to do What power or auctoritie is excepted where al thinges and causes be expressed where I saie by solemne othe taken before God and his holy Angelles ye binde men to acknowledge her for the chiefe and supreme Head for by your new worde Gouernoure ye take not awaie I trowe the meaning of your former worde Head in al thinges and causes as wel spiritual as temporal Ye know ye know M. Iewel this is a very large Commission for a woman to exercise in Christes Churche Tel vs not of your newe deuised Iniunction as for a poore shifte ye are wont to doo so thinne a cloke wil not fence you againste so greate a storme of weather Although the Queene that now is haue no great delite in the exercise of al manner suche auctoritie as ye haue put her in yet what if after her time there come in her place an other Prince King or Queene of an other manner courage and fansie whom it shal like wel sometimes for his pleasure strange deuotion ambitioÌ„ or pride to doo the office which by lawe of your Parlament is committed vnto him 2 Par. 26. as it is written of king Ozias that when he became mightie and of great power his harte was lifted vp and he would needes doo that whiche belonged onely to the Priestes office If it shal like suche a Prince be he your Soueraine Lorde or Soueraine Ladie to go into your Pulpites and there after your manner to raue and raile at the Pope at the Papistes and to tel the people a peece of your lusty Geneuian Gospel whereby they maie be stirred to allewdnesse and carnal libertie If I saie the Prince that shal succeede the Queene that now is shal take vpon him so to doo what wil ye saie in this case M. Iewel and your good Brethren Wil ye come vnto him and tel him Sir if it like your Maiestie you maie not so doo Wil ye saie that it belongeth to you and to such Ministers of the word as you are and to none elles Wil ye resiste him in that attempte and driue him out of the Churche if by that time ye shal haue any Church standing at al as the Priestes of Iewrie resisted and draue out of the Temple King Ozias If your hartes shal serue you so to doo and he replie against you saying that by graunt of your owne Parlament which is a most assured warrant ye haue geuen him the supreme power auctoritie and gouernement in al thinges and causes as wel spiritual as temporal and that therefore he wil vse and practise suche power as he maie by your owne graunte what haue ye then to saie Wil ye then face him out with your pretie litle worthe Iniunctions deuised by two or three Ministers Wil that serue the turne trow ye It wil not it wil not ye maie be assured Now let vs heare with what other matter M. Iewel chargeth me Item there Iewel Thus be saith vnto your Maiestie and vvith al his skil and cunning Confut. fol 277. Confut. fol. 328. a Confut. fol. 172. b Reioind 314. Conf. 87. a CoÌ„f. 269. b Rei 42. a. Conf. 43. a CoÌ„f. 269. a 323. b. 334. a. 338. a. 348. b. A bundel of Vntruthes laboureth to persuade your Maiesties Subiectes if any one or other happely of simplicite vvil beleeue him that the godly Lavves vvhiche your Maiestie hath geuen vs to liue vnder are 1 no Lavves that your Parlamentes are 2 no Parlamentes that your Clergie is 3 no Clergie our Sacramentes no 4 Sacramentes our Faith no 5 Faith The Church of England vvhereof your Maiestie is the most principal and Chiefe he calleth a 6 malignant Churche a nevve Church erected by the dâ—â—il a Babylonical Tovver a Heard of Antichriste a Temple of Lucifer a Synagoge and a Schole of Satan ful of Robberie Sacrilege Schisme and Heresie Harding First that I say thus vnto the Quenes Maiestie it is a grosse and a palpable lye and a lye in sight For al know that reade my Confutation that in my booke I directed not my wordes vnto the Quene but vnto M. Iewel and vnto his companions that conferred with him towardes the making of the Apologie That I saie in my Confutation The Lawes made in the Quenes time be no Lawes it is an other lye That I saie The Parlamentes be no Parlamentes it is likewise an other lye That I saie The Quenes Clergie is no Clergie although I said it not and so is it the fourth lye yet here I maie saie it is a very womanly Clergie if it be a Clergie at al. That I saie Their two Sacramentes are no Sacramentes The Faith of Heretikes not Faith but perfidie it is the fifth lye Sacramentes they maie be though Schismatical Heretical corrupte and polluted Sacramentes The manner
the outward gouernment the being of a Head is common to Christe with others For in this respecte certaine others maie be called Headdes of the Church as in Amos the prophete the great states be called the Heades of the people So the Scripture speaketh of King Saul When thou were a litle one in thine owne eyes thou wast made Head emong the tribes of Israel So Dauid saith of him selfe he hath made me Head of Nations Amos. 6. 1. Reg. 15. Psal 17. Headship in respect of gouernement diuers in Christ and in menne * Left out by M. Ievvel In this sense the name of Head is attributed to princes and gouernours And yet not altogether so as to Christ First forasmuche as Christe is Head of al those that perteine to the Churche according to euery place euery time and euery state But menne are called Heades in regard of certaine special places as Bishoppes be called heades of their Churches Or in respect of a determinat time as the Pope is Head of the whole Church during the time of that calling And according to a determinate state euen so as menne be in the state of this mortal life for further stretcheth not this humanie Headship Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe an other waie bicause Christe is Head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie * Menne be called Headdes in asmuch as they be in steed of Christe and vnder Christe after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians 2. Cor. 2. For if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe and in an other place we are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe 2. Cor. 5. euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in fewe according to inward influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is Head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christe and in steede of Christe is Head of the same These be my wordes there M. Iewel To whiche bicause you had nothing to saie you answer by your accustomed arte of mangling hewing awaie what liked you not by falsifying them and by putting in your owne selfe wordes in place of myne that teache the truthe And at length you fal to skoffing at my Logique making fonde and peeuish Argumentes of your owne forging bearing the simple reader in hande they are mine whiche God knoweth I neuer made nor no wise man elles For they are suche as of al that peruse your writinges you maie be knowen by them as a Begger is by his patched cloke or rather as a Vise is knowen by his Babul The greatest thing you saie is that al is myne owne tale that I tel and that I bring in no Scripture nor Doctour To this I answere Were it true that you saie as my Booke it selfe prooueth it false yet in this case my Yea hytherto is as good as your Nay and better too bicause it standeth with the vniforme Doctrine of the Churche Be it I allege no Authoritie of Scripture or Doctour to prooue the Pope Head bicause I am not yet comme to the place where I minde to prooue it Yet my case standeth as good as youres that bring neither Scripture nor Doctour to the contrarie If it had pleased you ye might haue founde bothe Doctours and Scriptures more The Rock of the Churche then you would gladly heare of in M. D. Sanders booke entitled the Rocke of the Church written for that behalfe and in M. Sapletons Returne written against your so many grosse Vntruthes and errours The Returne of Vntruths You crake muche of your great skil in Logique in comparison of other mennes ignorance searche out I praie you emong your rules of Logique whether Distinctio multiplicis in quaestione positi the Distinction of a worde that hath diuers significations placed in a controuersie ought not to goe before the disputation of the controuersie If it ought then haue I done rightly and orderly in that I made a Distinction of the terme Head before I entred to proue the Pope to be Head and you ignorantly and disorderly in calling vppon me to doo two thinges together against al good order of nature reason and learning or to doo the later before I had ended the former Testimonies auouching the Pope to be head of the Churche Peter the chiefe mēber of the Churche Gregor li. 4. epis 38. Now bicause you be so hasty to haue some Doctour to proue that the Pope is Head somewhat to satisfie your hasty humour the Authoritie of S. Gregorie afterwarde alleged by your selfe maie suffice any wise man who calleth S. Peter the chiefe member of the Church which the Pope succeding in that right of Peter is al one with that we saie the Pope is Head in gouernment vnder Christe What difference I praie you can your wisedome put betwixte the chiefe member and a Head vnder an other or in the steede of an other Chrysost in Matth. homil 55. It is your happe alwaie to allege Doctours to your owne Confusion S. Chrysostome also witnesseth that Peter was such a Head saying of him Ecclesia Pastor Caput Piscator homo The fisherman by whom he meaneth Peter is the shepehearde and head of the Churche Againe he saith in an other place Quod si quis percontaretur Chrysost in Ioan. Hom. 87. quo modo Iacobus Sedem Hierosolymis acceperit responderem hunc totius orbis magistrum praeposuisse In case any man would demaunde of me this question how Iames came to haue the See at Ierusalem I would answere him that this Peter the Maister of the whole worlde made him Bishop there Lo Peter Maister of the vvhole vvorlde he calleth Peter the Maister of the whole worlde by whiche worde what elles signifieth he but that he was the Head touching spiritual gouernment of the whole worlde He saith furthermore and that most plainely in an other place Ieremiam Genti vni pater Chrysost Hom. 55. in Matth. hunc autem vniuerso terrarum orbi praeposuit God the Father made Ieremie the Head and Gouernour ouer one nation onely that was the nation of the Iewes but as for this man Peter made hed of the vvhole vvorlde by Christ to wit Peter Christe made him Head and Gouernour ouer the whole worlde Are you contented now Verely I haue folowed your minde willingly And if ye require mo the like testimonies of me I remitte you to the Answer Ansvver I made vnto your Chalenge Art 4. fol. 9. b. c. where you shal finde that maie satisfie any learned man touching this pointe Neither are you hable to auoide the plaine force of those testimonies for al the great a doo you haue made in your huge Replie Iewel Pag. 94. Ye saie S. Paule saith If I forgaue any thing for your sakes 2. Cor. 2. I forgaue it in the personne
God M. Harding is not hable to shevve vs one Harding The gouernment of the whole Churche exercised by the Popes actually If the Popes manner had benne to bring menne in subiection by the Sworde and force of Armes The 20. Chapt. as it is not whiche thing Kinges haue vsed to doo then had ye as wel knowen the Popes Vniuersal Gouernment whiche you had rather cal Dominion by practise as you doo nowe knowe the Kinges Or were it so that ye fealte so sensibily the paine of Excommunication as ye doo the tormentes that Kinges vse against Rebelles when they once drawe their sworde of correction you would muche more feare to offende the Pope then ye doo now the force of Princes But your manner is alwaies to feare him that hath the sensible rodde in his hande ready at a worde to geue the stroke the Pope bicause he vseth long patience before he striketh and when he striketh his stroke bringeth no bodily paine but causeth a spiritual separation of mannes soule for his contumacie from the vnitie of the Church and from God whiche is not sensibly fealte therefore ye feare to offende Princes and vtterly set nought by the Popes autoritie But what if none of the Popes hitherto euer exercised their vniuersal gouernment ouer the whole Churche of God whiche in deede is not true is theâ—â— right therefore any thing the lesse Not at al. The Duke of Sauoie you know hath in right the Dominion and rule of Geneua yet they of the towne suche is the spirite that your holy Gospel breatheth into the people like errant Rebelles haue kept him out of his right many yeres And what if this be not true that you saie What if diuers Popes maie be named that haue ruled the whole Churche both the East and the Weast as farre as any Christian Emperour extended his Dominion Maie you not then reuoke your stoute assertion You haue read I suppose of the great councel of Chalcedon vnder Pope Leo and of the great Councel of Lateran vnder Innocentius tertius and the Councelles of Florence and of Lions How saie you I praie you finde ye not there that the Greeke Churche as wel as the Latine Churche agnised the Popes Supremacie I denie not but that a fewe Heretiques or Schismatiques perhappes might disobeie him at certaine time and in certaine places But what then So doo rebelles oftetimes disobeye their Princes His authoritie notwithstanding tooke place through the whole Churche emong obedient Christians Iewel Pag. 104. But God be thanked it appeareth already to al them that haue eyes to see that vve haue not departed from the seruile obedience of that See But vpon iust cause and good aâ—ise Harding The 21. Chapt. Yea God wote vpon as iuste causes as they of Germanie rebelled against Charles the fift that noble Prince theire lawful Emperour or if ye list vpon as iust causes as they of Geneua departed from the Duke of Sauoie their lawful Prince or if ye wil wade farther vpon as iust causes as the Huguenotes of Fraunce haue to remoue their lawful king from the godly and accustomed gouernment of his realme by open rebellion now the second time What you accompte seruile obedience Seruile obedience I know not but of this I am wel assured that such gouernment as ye and they of your spirite vse in some places when the worlde serueth your turne for the establishing of your Gospel to worke your policies maie wel be called a yoke made of harde yron whereas the Popes yoke if it must needes be called a yoke Yoke of iron yoke oâ— wood bicause ye speake of seruile obedience is but of softe wood that is to saie light and easie As al theeues would gladly departe from the obedience of their lawful Iudge and cal it Seruile if that might be allowed euen so al suche aduersaries of the Catholique Churche can thinke euery smal cause yea being no iust cause at al sufficient to departe from the obedience of the Pope the chiefe Pastour whose office is to condemne al their Heresies as al your Heresies at this daie are condemned in the Councel of Trent by the Popes authoritie Touching the argument you make à contrario sensu Pag. 104. out of the wordes of Calixtus Epistle in Gratian if you had foreseene the folie of it I dare saie Distinct 12. Non decet M Iewelâ— ArgumeÌ„â— you would neuer haue printed it for very shame The argument is this What so euer is done without discretion of Iustice against the order of the Churche of Rome it maie not by any meanes be allowed Ergo what soeuer is done by discretion of Iustice notwithstanding it be againâ—â— the Order of the Churche of Rome yet ought it to be wel allowed First your duetie had benne to haue laied the causes of your departure from the Churche of Rome before some lawful Iudge and haue proued the causes so alleged both true and iuste and not to make your selues iudges both of the sufficiencie of the causes and of your departure Nexte your duetie had benne to haue weighed wel this Argument whether it receiueth any deceitful sophistication The folie of M. Ievvelles argument shevved by the like either in it selfe or in his like Is this argument trowe ye good M. Iewel What so euer thing is donne without discretion of Iustice against the order of Goddes lawe it maie not by any meanes be allowed Ergo what so euer is donne by discretion of Iustice notwithstanding it be against the Order of Goddes lawe yet ought it to be wel allowed And yet is this argument in al pointes like yours Suche Diuinitie suche Logique Wel maie this Logique be allowed in your new schoole at Geneua in any learned Vniuersitie of Christendome certainely it wil not be allowed Looke what faulte ye can finde in the later Argument the same maie ye finde in your owne This later maie be a glasse vnto you to beholde your folio in the first The Glose expressely founde contrarie to M. Iew. Verely where you founde these wordes in Gratian euen there in your owne Glose vpon GratiaÌ„ you found your Argument disproued with these very wordes Hic vacat argumentum à contrario sensu Here the argument deduced of the contrarie sense is voide and holdeth not This you saw or your gatherer for you Yet you would it should out be it taken wel or otherwise Thus you delight to be striking though we can soone heale your woundes For so you thinke to persuade the simple that ye haue muche matter against vs. The places of S. Augustine and of Pius that you allege Pag. 104. make nothing against the Pope therefore I marueile why you allege them seruing you to so litle purpose Perhaps this may be your manner of reasoning S. Augustine would not haue vs to geue ouer to any Bishops be they neuer so Catholique if they happely be deceiued and be of a contrarie iudgement to Scripture Ergo
any others Reade the olde Fathers in suche sorte that you may vnderstande them without mistaking their right and purposed meaning then maie you cite them both to your owne honestie and to the commoditie of others The errour of one Falcidius One Falcidius a foolishe man vtterly deceiued went aboute to preferre as S. Hierome of him to Euagrius seemeth to reporte or to matche in one equalitie as S. Augustine saith the order of Deacons with the order of Priesthood For suppression of whiche errour the rather to abbase the Deacons vanitie August in Quaest veter no. Testam Quest 101 S. Hierome disputeth that in diuers places of the Scripture in certaine respectes Priestes are taken for Bishoppes and Bishoppes for Priestes so that if the Deacons be aboute the Priestes sith the Scripture doth cal Priestes by the name of Bishoppes it wil folowe that Deacons should also be aboue Bishoppes Which absurditie is so euident as no man maie graunt it Therefore for the auoiding of this absurditie whiche would followe vpon Falcidius false assertion it behoued him and suche as helde with him vtterly to reuoke that errour that Deacons are either aboue Priestes That a Priest is aboue a Deacon or equal with them A Priest maie doo al that a Bishop doth saue that he can not geue Orders A Deacon can not doo al thinges that a Bishop doth saue onely the geuing of Orders for he can not consecrate the body and bloude of Christ in the blessed Sacrament Ergo the Priest that hath more power then the Deacon must be aboue the Deacon This is S. Hieromes very drifte in that Epistle to Euagrius with the whiche meaning of S. Hieromes your authour Erasmus doth wel agree Erasmus in Antidoto post Scholiam in epist ad Euagriū where he writeth thus vpon the same Epistle Itaque quòd hic aequat humilium vrbium Episcopos cum alijs ad Diaconos est referendum qui nonnullis locis praeferebantur presbyteris quos propemodum aquat Episcopis Where as he doth here equally matche the Bisshoppes of the meaner Cities with other that are Bisshopps of great Cities it is spoken for the Deacons sake who in certaine places were preferred before the priestes whom almost he maketh Bisshoppes felowes And againe In hoc igitur aequales sunt Episcopi presbyteri quòd vbicunquesunt Diaconis sunt praeferendi Touching this pointe Bishoppes and Priestes are equal for that they are to be preferred before Deacons where so euer they be But that there is greate difference in authoritie of gouernement betwixte Bishoppes ' Priestes and Deacons S. Hierome is plaine in the laste sentence of that Epistle where he writeth thus Et vt sciamus traditiones Apostolicas sumptas de veteri Testamento quod Aaron filij eius atque Leuitae in Templo fuerunt hoc sibi Episcopi Presbyteri Diaconi vendicent in Ecclesia And that we maie knowe the Apostles Traditions were taken out of the olde Testament what Aaron and his Sonnes and the Leuites were in the Temple Bisshoppes Priestes and Deacons maie chalenge to them selfe the same in the Churche But Aaron being the high Priest and Bisshop was in auctoritie farre aboue al the rest Ergo if Priestes be named in Scripture Bisshoppes as S. Hierome reasoneth against their folie that preferred Deacons aboue Priestes There is one Bisshoppe founde out that ought to haue special rule ouer al the reste and that by a consequent of the very Scripture Whereas S. Hierome condemned the lewde disorder of the Citie of Rome not of the Churche of Rome as M. Iewel vntruly interpreteth which he saith is one with the Churche of the whole worlde keeping one rule of truth with the rest for hauing Deacons in more honour then Priestes and putteth the mater to be tried by authoritie saying that the authoritie of the vniuersal Church of the whole worlde with the which the Church of Rome is one is rather to be folowed then the corrupte manner and custome of that one Citie there is no reason why he should seeme in that place to haue vsed the word Merite Merite for Preeminence after M. Ievvelles iudgement for this worde Preeminence as M. Iewel ful vainely iangleth and can not prooue His seely argumentes stande thus The authoritie of the worlde that is to saie of the vniuersal Churche of the whole worlde and therefore of the Churche of Rome also being One Churche with the reste is greater then the authoritie of the Citie of Rome Ergo the worde Merite in the nexte sentence folowing must signifie Preeminence Againe the power of riches and the basenesse of pouertie maketh not a Bishop either higher or lower Ergo the worde Merite in the sentence before muste signifie Preeminence This is strange Logique by vse whereof euery foole maie seeme to reason wisely if it were once allowed in open schooles The vvorld is more thē the Citie expounded Whereas S. Hierome to Euagrius speaking against the euil custome of Rome where a Deacon was preferred before a Prieste saieth Si authoritas quaeritur Orbis maior est vrbe If wee seeke for Authoritie the worlde is more then the Citie he meaneth not as the circumstance of that Epistle geueth that authoritie there should signifie authoritie in gouernement as M. Iewel hath interpreted making S. Hierome to saie that in Authoritie of gouernement the whole worlde is greater then the Citie of Roome whereby he thinketh to displace the Pope and to depriue him of his authoritie in gouernement and to bestowe it confusely abroade in al the worlde whereof in deede the Confusion whiche they may beste holde and stande by might be procured The truthe is S. Hierome there is not to be vnderstanded to speake of the Churches authoritie in gouernement but of common and publique authoritie to be folowed for auoiding of that errour that made a Deacon better then a Prieste or at least equal with a Priest In Controuersies we folowe authoritie Now saith S. Hierome If we seeke for authoritie the worlde is greater then the Citie As who should saie let no man defende the errour by the authoritie of the Citie of Rome bicause there a Deacon is preferred before a Prieste for what shal we esteme the custome of one Citie the whole world holding the contrarie And the authoritie of no one Citie can be cōparable to the authoritie of the whole worlde Therefore pretending one to obiecte vnto him that the manner was at Rome for a Priest to be ordered at the testimonie of a Deacon he saieth Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis consuetudinem what bringest me foorth the custom of one Citie As who should say Neither at Rome vvas more honour geuen to Deacons then to Priestes it were not to be regarded in cōparison of the custom of the whole world Nowe that the Churche of Rome gaue not greater honour to Deacons then to Priestes by S. Hierome him selfe it seemeth to be euident for so
the Aphrican Bishoppes had deposed and remoued from his Bishprike for crimes not sufficiently proued sent his Clerkes that were his Agentes in Aphrica vnto certaine noble menne of the Countrie bearing offices vnder the Emperour to require their assistence if neede should so require whiche is as muche to saie as now we vse to speake as implorare brachium seculare to cal vpon the temporal power for helpe that iustice maie be executed With this the Aphrican Bishoppes did muche mislike and therefore besought Pope Coelestine that it should no more be donne but that maters might be ended by them being Bishoppes of that prouince without al intermedling of the laie power The wordes of the epistle are these Concil Aphâ—ican cap. 105. Executores etiam clericos vestros quibusque potentibus nolite mittere nolite concedereâ—ne fumosum typhum seculi in Ecclesiam Christi quae lucem simplicitatis humilitatis diem Deum videre cupientibus praefert videamur inducere Furthermore we beseche you that you sende no more your Clerkes that be your Agentes vnto any of the great menne and that you graunt to no suche thing hereafter leste we should seeme to bringe the smoky or vaine stoutenesse of the worlde into the Churche of Christe whiche to them that couete to see God sheweth forth the light of simplicitie and humilitie This is the Vntruthe you make vpon the Aphrican Councel in reprouing Pope Innocentius of pride and worldely Lordelinesse fully answered Now as vow haue brought an vntruth against the Pope out of the Aphrican Councel as you pretend so maie it please you to consider of the contrarie reported in the behofe of the Popes supreme authoritie in gouernment out of a Councel of Aphrica where we finde the same autoritie with these wordes auouched and acknowleged Maximè tustè debent Episcoporum iudicia negotia ecclesiastica ab ipso praesulum examinari vertice Apostolico Epist Stephani trium CoÌ„ciliorum Aphrica ad Damasum PapaÌ„ Con. 10. 1. cuius vetusta solicitudo est tam mala damnare quà m releuare laudanda Antiquis enim regulis censitum est vt quicquid horum quamuis in remotis vel in longinquo positis ageretur prouincijs non prius tractandum vel accipiendum sit nisi ad notitiam almae sedis vestrae fuisset deductum vt eius authoritate iuxta quod fuisset pronunciatum firmaretur The iudgementes of Bishops and ecclesiastical maters ought most iustely to be examined of him that is the Apostolike toppe or the crowne of the head of the Prelates whose care it is of olde as wel to condemne il thinges as to releeue good thinges For it hath ben decreed by the olde Canons that what so euer matter of the Bishoppes were in sute though it were in prouinces that be farre of from Rome it should not be ended before it were brought to the notice of that your See that it might be assured by the authoritie of the same right so as the sentence in iudgement should be pronounced By these wordes and by the whole Epistle of the Fathers of that Aphrican Councel assembled together vnder the Archebishop Stephanus it appeareth euidently how reuerently they submitted them selues and the determination of their causes and controuersies vnto the Pope and how farre of they were from the outragious sprite as to charge Innocentius or any other Pope with pride and wordely lordelinesse as M. Iewel hath fained Iewel Pope Bonifacius 2. condemned S. Augustine and al the said Councel of Aphrica and called them al heretiques and Schismatiques Inter decreta Bonifacij 2. Instigante diabolo for the same and said they vvere al * leade by the Deuil Pope Zosimus to maintaine this claime corrupted the holy Councel of Nice Harding Bonifacius 2. Fowly be lyed The .31 Chapt. It is pitie this man hath not a good mater For where he maketh so muche of nothing what would he doo had he somewhat But it is easie to saie muche in a naughty cause for one that is not a shamed to lie It can not be founde among the Decrees of Pope Boniface the .2 vnto whiche M. Iewel referreth vs nor any where els that he euer condemned that blessed and learned Father S. Augustine by name nor the Councel of Aphrica by any solemne sentence pronounced against them Verely that he called them al Heretiques and Schismatiques for the same that is to saie for the Popes vniuersal authoritie or for any thing and that they were lead by the Deuil it is an impudent lie The most greuous wordes he vttereth against them are these in an Epistle that he writeth to Eulalius the Patriarch of Alexandria exhorting him to reioise and to geue warning to other Bishoppes neare vnto him to reioise also and to geue God thankes for that the Churche of Aphrica was reconciled and returned to the obedience of the Churche of Rome from whence they had seuered them selues for the space of a hundred yeres vpon some stomake as it appeareth for that they would not admitte any Appellations of the Bishoppes of Aphrica to be made vnto the Pope whiche authoritie the Pope claimed by a Canon of the Nicene Councel CoÌ„cil Sardicen ca. 7 Bonifac. 2. Epist ad EulabiuÌ„ CoÌ„cil to 1. pag. 1057. and likewise by a Canon of the Councel of Sardica Aurelius Carthaginensis Ecclesiae olim Episcopus cum collegis suis instigante Diabolo superbire temporibus praedecessorum nostroruÌ„ Bonifacij atque Coelestini contra Romanam Ecclesiam coepit Aurelius some time Bishop of the Churche of Carthage beganne with his felowe Bishops the Deuil intising them to be proude against the Churche of Rome in the daies of Boniface and Coelestine my predecessours c. Of Heretiques and Schismatiques here is not a worde And though he said the Deuil intised them yet wil it not folowe that al they were leadde by the Deuil The Deuil intiseth many yea whom doth he not intise to euil Yet al be not leadde by the Deuil To be intised of the Deuil is one thing to be leadde is an other Touching Pope Zosimus saie what ye can folowing your Maister Caluine and when ye haue said al that ye can saie it is wel knowen ye shal neuer clearely proue Caluine Institut Cap. 1. that he corrupted the Councel of Nice For this I referre the Reader to M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes vpon M. Iewel Articulo 4. fol. 30. sequentib Peruse the place Reader and thou shalt finde thy selfe wel satisfied touching this pointe That whiche there is said in defence of Zosimus against their sclaunderous reportes M. Iewel should first haue disproued if he had minded in that mater to trie out the truthe and then haue laied it againe in our waie But he ful craftily dissembleth al and maketh as though he had not seene any such thing therby bothe to encomber vs with ofte repeating of one thing and the reader with hearing that whiche hath ben
that very argument of Tertullian which now M. Iewel setteth forth And in that very place S. Hierome nameth Tertullian as an enemie of second mariages But verely the case is not like in Bishops and Priestes For euerie man of necessitie is borne a laye man therefore it were not reason to force him who could not chose but be a laye man to marye but once whereas none are made Priestes but those that know before hand that the Apostle willed such only to be chosen Priestes as are the husbandes of one wife that is to say as haue not had two wiues but either none or but one This law being foreseene causeth it to be no iniurie to forbid the second mariage if any man wil be an external and publike Priest For he needeth not to be such a Priest except he him selfe be willing thereunto Againe the internal Priest needeth no more but an internal sanctitie whiche may be kept in the second mariage and whereby God is specially pleased and that bicause he is only his owne Priest But the external Priest must also professe an external sanctitie bicause he beareth the person of the whole Churche and by his order witnesseth 2. Cor. 11. that the Church as S. Paul saith is despoused or maried to one husband alone verely to Christ so that in the internal Priesthod it is inough to haue inward holinesse without any outward signe peculiarly belonging therunto bicause it is a Priesthod which is geuen in Baptisme where the soule is inwardly washed ād prepared to receiue other sacramentes But in the external Priesthod there must be also an external signe of holines bicause that external priesthod is of it selfe a Sacramēt that is a visible signe of a holy thing wrought inwardly Internal priest ād external do differ ad Heb. 5. Thirdly the internal Priest hath only to offer his owne spiritual Sacrifices vpon the Aultare of his harte but the external Priest hath to offer giftes and external Sacrifices vpō the outward Altare also for the sinnes of the whole people as S. Paule saith Therefore both Tertulliā in this point the Mōtanist and M. Iewel the Caluinist are in like sort deceiued The Montanist in making it no more lawful for a laye man to be twise maried then for him to be made a Priest who had ben twise maried The Caluinist in making the internal and external Priest to be al one For whereas I reasoned out of S. Hierome no Priest or Bishop and no Church and S. Hierome meant of suche a Priest as is aboue a Deacon M. Iewel would proue out of Tertulliā that where three Christiā laye men are there is a Church I cōfesse where but one Catholike layeman is there is one of the Church in which Church there are many external Priestes but if ther be a thousand layemen belonging to such a congregation as doth not acknowledge any external Sacrifice and Priesthod as the protestantes doo not there those thowsand neither are the Church nor of the Church bicause no Church is without an external Priest or Bishop who may offer publike Sacrifice and also consecrate an external priest Tertullian was not of this mind that there was no external Priesthod but his errour was Tertulliās errour in that he wold haue the internal and external Priestes to be in like case concerning the second mariages But otherwise his wordes confesse that not only the authoritie of the Church but also the honour sanctified of God by the assemblie of priestes Tertulliā Ibidem hath made a difference betwen the Order of priestes and the laie people His wordes are differentiam inter ordinem plebem constituit Ecclesiae authoritas honor per ordinis consessum sanctificatus à Deo The authoritie of the Church and the honour sanctified of God by the assemblie of the Order to wit of priestes hath made a difference betwen Order that is priesthood and the Laitie Two thinges haue made this difference betwen priestes and laymen the one is the authoritie of the Church the other is Christ him selfe Who beside the authoritie of the Church by the Sacrament of holy Orders hath instituted this difference of priestes and of layemen The sacrament of holy order is geuen Consecration of a Bishop whiles God sanctifieth the honour that is the preferment of him vpon whom the bishop in an assemblie with many priestes about him laieth his hande This Consecration of the bishop with other bishops or priestes Tertullian calleth Consessum ordinis the assemblie of Order and the Sanctification of God is that which is geuen by the Sacrament of Priesthod For euery Sacrament doth sanctifie the worthy receiuer as S. Paule namely saith of the Sacramēt of external priesthod vnto his disciple Timothee 1. Tim. 4. Despise not the grace which is in thee False trāslation to minister the oblation for to offer vp Sacrifice which hath ben geuen thee by prophecie with the laying on of the handes of priesthod Now a priest thus made might baptize and offer Sacrifice albeit he were alone But the worde offerre to offer M. Iewel turneth to minister the oblation But what peruerting of wordes is this What corruption of the sense What licencious translation Speaketh not Tertullian of the action of a Priest You meane by your ministring of your oblation that the Priest ministreth to the people that thing which the people offered to the priest and so you make the people to offer bread vnto the priest but the priest to offer nothing vnto God But Tertullian saith the priest doth baptize and doth offer meaning that he offereth to God But if your sense be true the people doth offer to the Priest and not the priest vnto God and consequently the priest doth not offer at al. Iewel Pag. 131. Againe ye demaund of me vvhat Bishop of Sarisburie euer sithence Augustines time mainteined this doctrine I might likevvise and by as good authoritie demaund of you vvhat Bishop of Rome before the same English Augustines time maintained your doctrine Or as I said before vvhat Bishop of Rome euer before that time either saide or knevv your priuate Masse Harding The questions are not like M. Iewel there is a thowsand yeres distance betwen them I demaund of your Predecessours from this day vpward til S. Augustines tyme who first brought the faith vnto the English nation But you demaund not from our time to S. Augustines and so vpwarde but only from S. Augustines time vpward Many thinges haue ben or might haue ben lawfully concluded betwen this and S. Augustines time which is the space of a thowsand yeres albeit the same had not ben vsed before or not throughly knowen The Eucharist ministred to childrē at their Baptism and decided As for example the vse hath ben these later thowsand yeres to minister baptisme vnto children rather without geuing them the Sacrament of the Altare then otherwise and that euen in those Churches in some of which within
his vvord they vvould euermore haue vs stand in doubt but of the Pope and his vvord they say in any vvise vve maie not doubt Harding Our doubte is not whether Gods word ought to be beleeued no man doubteth thereof But onely what is the meaning thereof And then besides to vnderstand it the better we ioine vniuersal tradition with it and in al further doubtes we say the Pope or the General Councel is the highest and laste iudge in earth to declare vnto vs the meaning of Gods worde Otherwise we should neuer haue an end of Controuersies as we see by experience betwen the Lutherans and Zuinglians Ievvel Pag. 200. 201. Hovv knovv you saith M. Harding that the scriptures be the scriptures c. The Church of God had the spirit of vvisedom vvhereby to discerne the true scriptures from the false So saith S. a In prooemi in Luc. Ambrose S. b cōt Fau lib. 22. Augustin and c 80. li. 6. ca. 2. Eusebius Yet vvil it not folovv that the Church is aboue the scriptures Harding If the Church of God haue the spirite of wisedome to discerne the true scriptures from the false shal it not also haue the same wisedom of God to expound the holy Scriptures and also to determine any question arising thereon Neither doo we say that the Church is aboue the Scriptures in authoritie but that it is to vs better knowen and as a more liuely so a more plaine teacher then the Scriptures be For if we aske the Scriptures any question Clemēs Alexand. li. strō 1 be it neuer so hard as Clemens Alexandrinus hath wel noted They wil answer vs no more then it is written But if any man aske the Church neuer so manie questions if the knowledge be behooful for mannes soule health it wil euer make him to eche question an answer and so wil dimisse him with a ful satisfaction touching al his doubtes 1. Tim. 3. For this cause the Church is called the piller of truth And as you confesse that the Church hath shewed vs which be the true Scriptures so must you likewise graunte that the Church hath the spirite of God to shew vs the truth in al behooful cases yea euen in those which be not expressely written For where is it written expressely that the church of God should haue the spirit of God for this ende to shew vs the true Scriptures to approue the true Scriptures and to condemne the false forgeries Luc. 10. Mat. 18. Christe said generally of al matters He that heareth you heareth me Item he that heareth not the Church let him be to thee as an Heathen and a Publican Of the Sacramentes of the Churche The thirde Chapter Iewel Defence Pag. 103. 104. M. Harding saith there be seuen Sacramentes vvhich as he saith do not only signifie a holy thing but also doo make holy those to vvhom they be adhibited But hovv can Matrimonie sanctifie a man and make him holy Or by vvhat institution of Christ conteineth it grace in it selfe and povver to sanctifie Harding Ephes 5. S. Paule answereth you thus Ye husbandes loue your wiues as Christ hath loued his Church And then he proueth the wife to be the flesh of the husband as also the Church is the body of Christe And so both waies the Prophecie of Adam is verefied Gen. 2. that two shal be in one flesh Sacramentum hoc magnum est in Christe Ecclesia Sacramēt Mysterie This is a great Sacrament or a great Misterie in Christe and the Churche For we stand not now vpon the worde but vpon the thing What is that great Mysterie First Matrimonie is alwaies a coniunction of two in one both by natural consent of myndes and also if it be consummate by corporal coniunction Now by Christes institution that coniunction is also made inseparable Matt. 19. when he said That which God hath ioined together let not man separate or put a sunder Nowe then this coniunction is made to be inseparable betwen faithful persons it is directed by Christ and instituted purposely to signifie his inseparable coniunction with the Church And whiles it is instituted of Christe to signifie that thing it is made a Sacrament or Mysterie whereunto Christe geueth grace and holinesse for that purpose For when any thing or action is appointed by Christ to signifie a holy thing in Religion that action is thereby made a Sacrament and doth sanctifie the worthy receiuers of it We see that Circumcision might be made and was vsed among some Infidels and to them it was no Sacrament Gen. 17. But when the faithful were commaunded to circumcide them selues to signifie the Circumcision of the harte which Christe should make in them that beleeued by his spirit and grace then Circumcision was made a Sacrament and did sanctifie the worthy receiuer Euen so it is in Matrimonie as S. Augustine saith August lib. 1. de Nupt. Concupis cap. 10. Ephes 5. Quoddam Sacramentum nuptiarum commendatur fidelibus coniugatis Vnde dicit Apostolus viri diligite vxores vestras sicut Christus dilexit Ecclesiam A certaine Sacrament of Marriage is commended vnto the faithful married personnes Whereupon the Apostle saith ye men loue your wiues euen as Christe loued his Churche Huius proculdubio Sacramenti res est vt mas foemina connubio copulati quà m diu viuunt inseparabiliter perseuerent Nec liceat excepta causa fornicationis à coniuge coniugem dirimi hoc enim custoditur in Christo Ecclesia vt viuens cum viuente in aeternum nullo diuortio separetur The thing doubtlesse of this Sacrament is The thing of the Sacrament of Matrimonie that the man and woman ioyned together in Marriage as long as they liue continew together vndisseuered and that it be not lauful for the one to be separated from the other but for fornication For this thing is kept in Christ and the Church that he lyuing with the liuing for euer by no diuorce be separated Here we learne not only that the name but also that the thing of a Sacrament is in the Marriage of Christians which thing doth sanctifie those persons that come worthily to Marriage For as Marriage was from the beginning ordeined to begete Children so by Christ it is ordeined to a higher signification verely not to be separated whiles the parties married together doo liue and thereby to signifie Christes inseparable vniō with his Church The chief signification of Matrimonie And as that vnion of Christ with vs is an inseparable sanctification to faithful men so is the signe thereof a special sanctification to them who married in our Lorde It is knowen that as S. Augustine assigneth there are tria bona matrimonij August li. de Nuptijs Concupisc fides proles Sacramentum Three good thinges are in Mariage the faith or fidelitie of wedlocke which the man and wife must kepe rendring duetie the
Gentilium fieri solet appellationem interposuerunt Oh see the desperate boldenesse of rage and furie As if it were in the suites of Heathens and Paganes so these menne haue put vp their Appeale Nowe sir if he had ben of the minde that you imagine or had thought it lawful for Constantine to heare and determine ecclesiastical causes or a right apperteining to his Emperial estate he woulde not haue tolde vs that he thought it a faulte to intermedle in suche matters and therefore asked pardone of the holy Bishoppes Neither would so wise an Emperour seing those Bishoppes appealing in that cause haue dâ—tâ—sted their doinges and cried O rabida furoris audacia oh the desperate boldnesse of rage and furie Wherefore M. Iewel neither this facte of Constantine nor that authoritie of S. Augustine can furder your pretended conuention of Bishoppes before Ciuil Magistrates Let vs see what foloweth Iewel Pag. 638. But vvhat speake vve of other Priestes and inferiour Bishoppes The Popes them selues notvvithstanding al their vniuersal povver haue submitted them selues and made their purgations before kinges and Emperours 2. q. 7. Nos si Gerson in Serm. Paschali Pope Liberius made his humble appearance before the Emperour Constantius Pope Sixtus before Valentinian Leo the thirde before Carolus Magnus Leo 4. before Levves the Emperour Iohn 22. vvas accused of heresie and forced to recant the same vnto Philippe the French king Harding The higher euery good man is the more humbly he behaueth him selfe If then the Popes hauing an vniuersal power ouer Christes Churche did submitte them selues to Princes and Emperours they shewed muche humilitie in their hartes and confidence in their causes and proue against you M. Iewel that if this submission had not ben made voluntarily by them nor King nor Caesar coulde haue had authoritie or power to haue benne iudges ouer them as you maie see by the example of that good Emperour Constantine refusing to be iudge ouer Bishoppes and saying Sozo lib. 1 cap. 17. Deus vos constituit sacerdotes potestatem vobis dedit de nobis iudicandi ideo à vobis rectè iudicamur vos autem non potestis ab hominibus iudicari God hath appointed you Priestes and geuen you power to iudge of vs and therefore we are rightly iudged of you but ye can not be iudged of menne that is of laie menne and menne as S. Ambrose reported of Theodosius whiche I declared before that are vnequal in office M. Ievvel failing of his purpose falleth from the Popes purgatioÌ„ before Emperours to their appearance before Emperours vvhiche no man denied Liberius appearing before Constantius Tâ—â—odorit Eccles Hist lib. 2 cap. 16. Pope Sixtus after vvhat forte he made his purgatioÌ„ and for vvhat cause and vnlike in authoritie and right Of suche Bishoppes maie not be iudged The Pope Liberius you saie made his humble appearance before Constantius It is true But appearance is not purgation M. Iewel You promised to tel vs of Popes that submitted them selues and made their purgations before kinges and Emperours and beginning with that good Pope you forgette your selfe and for making of a purgation you tel vs of making appearance Whereby we gather that either you passe not what you saie or remember not what ye promise Liberius dealing with Constantius the Arian Emperour at that appearance was suche as became a Bishoppe of the Apostolike See For in that cause he would neither be ouerborne by the authoritie of the Emperour nor yelde vnto his wickednesse against Athanasius for a longe time muche lesse acknowledge him for his superiour or iudge As for Pope Sixtus it is certaine that he made his purgation before the Emperour Valentinian But he did it M. Iewel in Concilio in a Councel of Bisshoppes and not in a courte of the Prince And he did it of humilitie to auoide the suspicion and malice of his aduersaries and not to geue any President to others to doo the like nor to preiudicate the authoritie of the Apostolique See These are his wordes in the place that your selfe allege Vnderstande ye 2. q. 4. MaÌ„dastis Nostra authoritate that I am falsely accused of one Bassus and vniustly persecuted Whiche the Emperour Valentinian hearing commaunded a Synode by vertue of our authoritie to be assembled When the Synode was assembled I satisfying al with great examination albeit I might otherwise haue escaped yet auoiding suspicion I made my purgation before them al discharging thereby my selfe from suspicion and from emulation and enuie Sed non alijs qui hoc noluerint aut non sponte elegerint faciendi formam dans But not geuing a president to others to doo the like that either shal not be willing or wil not voluntarily choose this kinde of purgation Lo M. Iewel your owne authour condemneth you Pope Sixtus made his purgation not onely before Valentinian but coram omnibus before al Bishoppes and others assembled in the Synode And he did it not by compulsion of any superiour Authoritie but of humilitie to declare his innocencie and not to geue any other a president to doo the like And by this ye maie perceiue that the Emperour had of him selfe nor authoritie to cal that Councel nor power to summone the Pope to his Iudgement Seate nor any iurisdiction to force him to make his Purgation before his Maiestie For al was done by the submission of the Pope He consented to the Emperours calling of that Councel he gaue him licence to heare his purgation and to be iudge in that cause And he that geueth an other authoritie and commission is by natural reason higher and of greater power in that case then he that receiueth the authoritie and commission Wherefore Pope Sixtus making his purgation before the Emperour Valentinian can not be said to haue benne conuented before a laie Magistrate as his superiour and lawful iudge Leo 3. and Leo 4. Concerning Leo the thirde and Leo the fourth their case is like When they made their Purgation the one said euen in the place that you allege hoc faciens non legem prascribo caeteris 2. q. 4. Audite 2. q. 7. Nossi doing this I doo not prescribe a lawe to force other menne to doo the like The other gaue the Emperour licence to appointe Commissioners to heare his cause and submitted him selfe to their iudgement and therefore we saie the Emperour was not their iudge nor superiour by any princely authoritie but by these Popes permission and appointement As for Pope Iohn the 22. of whose errour you make muche a doo in so many places of your bookes I haue said sufficiently before in the Answer to your View of your Vntruthes Fol. 64. sequent Where I haue declared how falsly you belie him and wherein he erred touching the state of the Soules of the iust after this life And here I saie againe that it is most false that euer he recanted any heresie before Philippe the Frenche king In deede the
errour whiche he helde as his priuate opinion was condemned at the sounde of trompettes in presence of that king as Gerson writeth but that was done before he was Pope Iewel 639. Your ovvne Glose saith Dist 63. In Synod in Glos Papa potest dare potestatem Imperatori vt deponat ipsum sese illi in omnibus subijcere The Pope maie geue the Emperour povver to depose him selfe and maie in al thinges submitte him selfe vnto him Harding Be it that our Glose saith so M. Iewel your Glose I might rather saie For the Gloser seemeth to be your chiefe Doctour There was neuer Diuine that serued him selfe with the stuffe of the Glose so muche as you doo What inferre you vpon it If you can like a good Logician frame this argument vppon that Glose The Pope maie geue the Emperour authoritie to depose him selfe Ergo the Pope maie be conuented before the Magistrate as one that through vertue of his temporal office is his superiour in Ecclesiastical causes let vs haue it in writing and we wil returne you the like with as good consequence and saie The Queene may geue anie of her Lordes and subiectes power to depose her from her roial estat and to transferre it to an other Ergo shee maie be conuented before that Lord and subiect of hers as one that hath authoritie to depose her of him selfe without commission and authoritie from her grace And if you finde fault with the sequele of this find fault with the sequele of you own For they are both like Dist 93. cap. vltim in Glossa The Law saith Ex alterius persona quis consequitur quod non habet ex sua A man getteth of an other-mannes person that which he hath not of his owne Wherefore the Emperour hauing authoritie of the Pope to depose him Extr. de off iudicis Deleg c. Sanè hath not that authoritie of him selfe or any his Imperial power but of the Pope And seing Iudex delegatus à Papa gerit vices Papae a Iudge delegated of the Pope occupieth the roome of the Pope the Emperour in this case shal not depose him as Emperour but as the Popes Vicegerent and Delegate Iewel Pag. 639. Franciscus Zarabella saith De schemate Concilio It is de Schismate pontificuÌ„ Papa accusari potest coram Imperatore de quolibâ—t crimine notorio Imperator requirere potest à Papa rationem fidei The Pope maie be accused before the Emperour of any notorious crime and the Emperour maie require the Pope to yelde an accompte of his faith Harding Neither Franciscus Zarabella nor Franciscus Zabarella for so is his true name saith as you reporte that Papa potest accusari coram Imperatore de quolibet crimine notorio M. Ievvel falsifieth his Doctor by addition of his ovvne to helpe his mater The Pope maie be accused before the Emperour of any notorious crime Those wordes coram Imperatore before the Emperour are of your owne interlacing and be not in the Authour You ought to be ashamed so fouly to corrupte your authours and deceiue the people Againe Zabarella sayth not Imperator requirere potest à Papa rationem fidei the Emperour may require the Pope to yeelde an accompte of his faieth They are your woordes Maister Iewel That whiche Zabarella saith is thus Zabarella made to saie What pleaseth M. Ievvel Si Papa est de haeresi suspectus potest Imperator ab eo exigere vt indiret quid sentiat de fide that is if the Pope be suspected of heresie the Emperour may require of him that he declare what he thinketh of the Faith Nowe sir to require a man to yeelde an accompte of his Faith and to require him to declare what he thinketh are twoo diuerse thinges For the one can not be donne but by Superiour authoritie the other by waie of friendship and common charitie But as for Superiour authoritie In vvhat case of necessitie the Emperour may entermedle vvith matters of Faith and religion after the minde of Zabarella Zabarella alloweth the Emperour none ouer the Pope nor graunteth that he maie intermedle in Ecclesiastical causes but in an extreme necessitie to witte if there were two Popes at one time as there were when he wrote this Treatie whence you fetche your falsified sentences and neither would yeelde vnto the other nor the Cardinalles take order for the quiet gouernemente of the Churche in procuring a General Councel and if he saw the Antipape to geue ouer his vsurped Authoritie then the Emperour whose duetie is to defende the Catholique Faithe maie intermedle in Ecclesiastical causes saith Zabarella His wordes are these Cùmergo deficit Papa vel Cardinales Francis Zabarella de Schismate pontificuÌ„ qui subrogantur Papae in Congregatione Concilij vt dictum est in praecedenti quaestione ad ipsum Imperatorem qui pars post praedictos est praecipua Concilij spectat Congregatio Nec quenquam moueat quòd Imperator est Laicus vt ex hoc putet esse inconueniens quòd se intromittat de clericis Non enim semper prohibetur iudicare de clericis sed tunc prohibetur quando non subest ratio specialis Nam propter specialem rationem permittitur vt ratione feudi Hoc autem casu subest ratio specialis imo specialissima ne fides Catholica ruat quod nimium periclitatur diu permittendo pluralitatem in summo Pontificatu In quo maximè est Imperatoris praecipuam habet potestatem Nam permittere plures in Papatu est offendere illum fidei articulum vnam sanctam Catholicam c. Therefore when the Pope faileth or the Cardinalles who are nexte in roome vnto the Pope substituted to the Pope in assembling of a CouÌ„cel as it was said in the nexte question before the assembling of a Councel apperteineth vnto the Emperour who after the Pope and the Cardinalles is the chiefe parte Neither it ought to moue any man to thinke it inconuenient that the Emperour in that he is a laie man should intermedle with maters belonging to clerkes For he is not alwaies inhibited to iudge of Clerkes But then he is forbidden when there is no special cause For it is permitted for some special reason as in consideration of fealtie And in this cause there is a special yea a most special reason that the Catholique Faith come not to ruine bicause it is in great danger by long suffering of pluralitie in the Popedome that is to say of moe Popes then one In which the Emperour is the chiefe doer and he hath the chief power For to permitte many Popes in the Popedome is to offende that article of the Faith I beleeue one holy Catholique and Apostolike Churche By this and the whole discourse that Zabarella your authour maketh there it appeareth M. Iewel that the Emperour hath not the authoritie you pretende but in that case of extreme necessitie And by your aduocate in the Lawe if he had not
benne halfe in a phrenesie you might haue learned L. NaÌ„ ad ad ea ff de legibus ff de regu lis iuris that ex ijs quaeraro accidâ—nt lages non fiunt of those thinges that happen seldome lawes are not made And Quae propter necessitatem recepta sunt non debent in argumentum trahi those thinges that are receiued for necessitie ought not to be drawen to an argument or president to be followed Wherefore â—â—ither vpon the doinges of the Emperours in that great and lamentable schisme of the Church neither vpon Zabarella you can builde that Bishoppes may ordinarily be conuented before a ciuil Magistrate in ecclesiastical causes But sir seing you thought it conuenient for your purpose to vse the authoritie of Zabarella although you haue fowly falsified and misreported his wordes tel vs by what reason you maie refuse his authoritie if we can allege it against you He saith in the same treatie that you allege Papa est vniuersalis Episcopus Zabarella M. Ievvels ovvne doctor alleged agaiÌ„st M. Ievvel Papa non habet superiorem Papa habet iurisdictionem potestatem super omnes de iure Sedes Apostolica errare non potest The Pope is the vniuersal Bishop The Pope hath no superiour The Pope hath iurisdiction and power ouer al by lawe The Apostolique See can not erre Why admitte you not this Is it reason that you should admitte an authours saying the whiche he spake and allowed in a case of necessitie for auoiding of a greater danger and not admitte the same authours saying in the same treatie whiche he speaketh according to receiued and approued doctrine of the Catholique Church Aske your aduocate L. Si quis Cod. de testibus and he wil tel you that reason and lawe faith That si quis vsus fuerit testibus ijdemque testes producantur aduersus eum in alia lite non licebit personas eorum excipere If one vse witnesses in a cause and the same witnesses be brought against him in an other controuersie it is not lawful for him to make exception against their personnes And if either reason or lawe could preuaile where heresie hath entred you should not onely admitte this but also that whiche he saith in an other place â—â—â—â—stas 〈…〉 immediate pendat à Deo Ioan. 21. per illa verba Pasce 〈…〉 Papa habet potestatem supra omnes quic omnes sunt â—â—â—s Papae vicem Dei gerit in terris Zabarella in ClemeÌ„t de SenteÌ„t reiudicata cap. pastoralis Ibidem in Clement de magistris cap. Inter. de Sentent excommu cap. ex frequeÌ„tib The power of the Pope dependeth immediatly of God by those wordes feede my sheepe The Pope hath power ouer al bicause al be sheepe The Pope beareth the person of God in earth For he spake this with as good aduise as he spake the other And this is generally allowed and that but in a case Wherefore if his authoritie be good in the one ought it not to be good in the other Now therefore M. Iewel I reporte me to your indifferent iudgement how true it is that you saie that a Prince or a ciuil magistrate maie lawfully cal a Priest before him to his owne seate of iudgement and that a Bishop maie be conuented before the Magistrate as his lawful and superiour iudge in ecclesiastical causes No one example or sentence that ye haue yet alleged doth proue that vaine assertion of yours Neither could ye haue had any aduantage by them if ye had truely reported their wordes and declared the circumstances why and wherefore they were spoken But that liked you not Wherefore referring your corruption and false dealing in these matters of weight to the judgement of God and examination of the indifferent and wise I conclude against you with S. Augustine S. Ambrose S. Chrysostome and al other Catholique Fathers that it is not conuenient Extr. de Maiorit obed cap. 2. in marg nor lawful for a king to cal priestes before him to his owne seat of Iudgement as their superiour in ecclesiastical causes As for the note glosed in the Decretalles which ye bring to proue that priestes are exempted from the Emperours iurisdiction by the Popes policie and the princes consent and not by the worde of God we tel you that suche glosed notes declare you to be a very Gloser and argue that your stoare is farre spent when you rest vpon such marginal glosed notes Were it graunted which in no case we graunt that Bisshoppes and priestes were exempted from the Emperours iurisdiction in ecclesiastical causes onely by the Popes policie and consent of princes for confirmation whereof they haue made diuers lawes and geuen out large priuileges yet these lawes standing vnreapealed and priuileges vnauthorized they can not be conuented lawfully before the ciuil magistrate For it standeth not with the Maiestie of a prince to doo against his owne lawes and breake the priuileges by him selfe graunted to others before he hath with as mature aduise and consideration reuoked them as he did first graunte them That the Canonistes are wrongfully charged by the Apologie with teaching the people that Simple Fornication is no sinne The 15 Chapter The wordes of the Apologie Defence Pag. 357. They be the Popes ovvne Canonistâ—â— vvhiche haue taught the people that Fornication betvven single foâ—â—â— iâ— no sinne Harding A sclaunder vttered by the Apologie against the Canonistes not recanted in the Defence touching the thing but only touching the errour of the name IN my CoÌ„futation I saie that this is a greuous offence and worthy to be pounished in processe I saie to the makeâ—s of the Apologie How proue ye it They allege for it one Iohn de Magistris How be it M. Iewel hath recanted that errour and confesseth him selfe to haue ben deceiued For he graunteth it was Martinus de Magistris whom he meant or should haue meant He should doo wel to recant diuers other the like his errours For he hath not only ben deceiued by his note bookes or his Notegatherers in naming Iohn de Magistris for Martinus de Magistris but also in the names of sundrie other menne as it shal be declared in the nexte Chapter But touching the sclaunder of the Canonistes if Martinus de Magistrâ—â— had so taught yet the matter is not cleare for he wâ—â— no Canoniste but a Schoole Doctor of Diuinitie Againâ— he â—â—â—â—ht not the people as our Maisters of the Apologie â—â—e but onely wrote of that matter after the Scholastical manner from vnderstanding whereof the peoples simple capacitie is farre of Wel let these three errours Lyes or ouersightes be â—inâ—â—ed at Hitherto the Canonistes are not touched but sclaundered What shal we answer for Martinus de Magistris Certainely neither that Doctour taught either the people or any other person that vngodly and false Doctrine Certaine it is that in this Treatie De Temperantia quaestione 2. he taught the contrarie where
greeue the harte not onely of his Aduersarie but also of any other godly man with scorneful flowtes in thinges of greatest holinesse But Christian Reader we striue not for the Garland of that game we go not about to trie maisteries of suche witte or of humaine learning Our strife is about the Truthe The waie to shewe it and proue it whiche he him selfe by open Chalenge hath offred his Doctrine to be tried by is by laying forth the plaine Scriptures the examples of the Primitiue Church the testimonies of the General Councelles and ancient Fathers Of these who hath so great stoare saith a frende of his as M. Iewel Who euer sawe the margent of any Booke so beset with cotations as his Bookes are This were a great euidence of the Truthe on his side if the matter were alwaies tried by what so euer multitude of writers sayinges But what if the number of his testimonies be quite beside the purpose Seemeth he not then very shamelesse Is he not then farre to blame so to abuse the plaine and wel meaning Readers It shal be said perhappes in his excuse He seeth the negligence of menne he coÌ„sidered that fewe or none examine our writinges And therefore he thinketh he shal seeme to saie muche though in deede nothing be said that perteineth to the pointes presently handled And where a thing is to be done and the same for want of habilitie can not be done there it seemeth good policie to geue the assaie and to make shewe as if it could be donne or were donne It is knowen how flatterers make resemblance of frendship how Hypocrites geue forthe tokens of holinesse the intended Bankroute of good truste and credite the craking Coward of stoute courage Beggers oftentimes of welth Queanes of womanly honestie and chast demeanour Right so M. Iewel feeling him selfe destitute of the Truthe and impugning the Truthe and professing to deliuer vnto the worlde a new Truthe that is to saie a heape of olde Vntruthes busily set forth of late yeres by Luther Zuinglius Caluine Beza and the reste and by Wiklefe Hus Waldenses and others their predecessours in former times laboureth with al his witte and cunning to iustifie it calling it by the name of Goddes pure worde the Gospel and the sincere Truthe that whereas he is not hable to perfourme his intent in deed yet he might seeme to make it good with wordes Touching the life of the Clergie wel maie I confesse that M. Iewel hath somewhat to saie out of certaine writers how true I knowe not whereto I shal hardly be hable to make answer in ful defence of certaine personnes But as touching the Doctrine that the Catholike Churche holdeth at this daie and hath alwaies holden I auouche boldly as by sundrie our bookes it hath now ben clearely proued and they vnderstand so much that doo thoroughly examine the reasons authorities and proufes of both partes that he is not hable to bring so muche as one sentence out of any allowed writer that may not easily be refelled And bicause he knoweth that in pointes of Doctrine the force of Truth is clearely on our side he would faine traine me from matters of Doctrine wherein he hath smal hope of victorie or of acquitting him selfe with euen hande vnto matters of life and other bye thinges whereof what so euer be beleeued therein is no great danger touching our Saluation As for example what cracke is there made in the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche if the Nominales and the Reales if the Thomistes and Scotistes dissent about pointes Logical or Metaphysical or perhappes also about the paringes of some Scholastical pointes of Diuinitie What if some light beleeuing writers haue sadly and in ernest made mention of one Ioane a woman Pope deceiued by Martinus Polonus Martinus Polonus a man of smal credite who moued with olde wiues tales first committed that fable to writing What if some later writers haue vttered their phantasies whiche they dreamed thereof vpon occasion of an olde Marble Stone hauing in it a woman with a ladde standing by her engraued What if a fewe menne that helde with certaine euil Emperours whiche could not abide to be reuoked from their vnlawful lustes by the Pope for the time being haue written and reported il of a fewe Popes What if Iohannes Casa wrote some vnchaste Italian Sonettes and Rymes in his yewth though for filthinesse not comparable to suche as be extant of Bezaes making the Apostle of the Frenche Huguenotes What if Petrus Aloisius whom Paulus Tertius the Pope loued so tenderly were a vicious man What if Iohn Diazius the Spaniard were vnnaturally murdered by Alphonsus Diazius his brother that liued at Rome What if Luther wrote against the furious vproares of the Boures in Germanie when he sawe they were sure to be ouerthrowen by the Nobilitie there whom notwithstanding he had before by Thomas Muncer his scholer stirred to take weapons against their Lordes that he might laie some good colour vpon that he had il begonne What if some haue written though not without contradiction of others that Poison was ministred in the blessed Sacrament What if a Pope shewed him selfe cruel and without pitie in suffering Frances Dandulus the Venetians Ambassadour to lie vnder his table like a dogge whiles he was at diner What if Popes haue suffered great Princes and Monarkes to kisse their feete to holde their Stiroppes to leade their horses by the Bridle Wâ—at if Gregorie the seuenth otherwise called Hildebrande whom many graue Writers reporte to haue benne a man of great vertue and an excellent good gouernour of the Church be of some Writers of that age who flattered the Emperour then being that Popes mortal enemie accompted an il man What if Pope Alexander vsed Frederike the Emperour more proudly then became a man of his calling What if Constantines Donation can not be most sufficiently proued by record of antiquitie What if certaine Emperours and other Princes for great causes haue ben remoued froÌ„ their estates by the Popes authoritie What if the Gloser vpon Gratian and certaine other Canonistes haue immoderately magnified the Pope and to extol his power haue vsed some termes vndiscretely which neuerthelesse by fauorable interpretation maie be iustified What if the Popes at certaine times either for negligence cared not or for the wrechednesse of mannes il inclination could not or for great considerations would not vtterly purge the Citie of Rome of Courtesanes and Brodel houses What if the life of many Priestes Bishoppes Cardinals yea of some Popes also hath iustly deserued to be reproued Once to conclude what if al sortes of olde Bookes being raked out of dusty corners Schoolemen Summistes Glosers vaine Chroniclers Legendes writers of Dreames and Visions and suche Riffe raffe and menne for the purpose being set a worke to peruse them in the same be founde a fewe fonde pointes of Doctrine certaine loose Conclusions many seely Tales not worth the telling and some lewd faultes of
Religious personnes and others of the Clergie detected What if I saie al these and many other suche thinges were graunted of whiche we are persuaded that some are true the more parte is false muche is so written as it maie be defended no lesse then impugned What great inconuenience what preiudice to our Faith can ensue of al this Must the Catholike and ancient Doctrine of the Churche for these pointes be founde vntrue Must this now needes be made a good Argument Some of their liues were sinneful Ergo their Doctrine was false Truely these be the matters with the enlarging whereof his Defence hath risen to so huge a quantitie About whiche I haue not thought it needeful to bestow muche labour partly bicause in most of those pointes my Confutation of the Apologie yet standeth vnrefelled partly also bicause it liked me not to emploie good houres in so friuolous and vnfruitful a trauaile but chiefly bicause what so euer be said by M. Iewel touching these thinges either on the one side or on the other it importeth no disprouse of the Catholique doctrine in any Article whiche specially I haue taken in hande to mainteine Howbeit the thinges he bringeth in to deface the Churche must needes with wise menne in this case beare smal credite being considered vpon whose authorities and reportes they be auouched The Catholikes can not be greatly moued with suche thinges as are written in preiudice of the Churche either by them whose Bookes be of suspected faith and therefore condemned by the Church as Auentinus and Beno de vita Hildebrandi or haue ben corrupted of late yeres by the Lutheranes of Germanie as Vrspergensis In Indice librorum prohibitorum Antonius de Rosellis Polydorus Vergilius de Inuentoribus rerum Paschasius and others or who haue benne muche inclined to innouations in Religion and fauoured the Procedinges of Luther and his disciples as Erasmus Cornelius Agrippa Carion Lorichius Cassander and suche others or who be knowen to be manifest Heretiques and professed enemies of the Churche as Gaspar Hedio the Author of Paralipomena added to Vrspergensis Anselmus Rid Vergerius Sleidan Illyricus Fabritius Montanus Iacobus Andreae and many suche others al whiche M. Iewel allegeth against the Churche the Popes and the Clergie boldely as if they were Doctours of sufficient authoritie and sound credite against whom specially in these matters no exception might be taken As there is no cause why we shoulde greatly esteeme any thing spoken by these either against the manners of the Clergie or against the Ceremonies and customes of the Churche or against any parte of the Catholique Doctrine bicause in iudgement the bare worde of the Accuser or of him that otherwise is an il willer beareth smal credite against any man So touching the doctrine of Faith we feare not what so euer M. Iewel allegeth against vs out of the Schoolemenne Canonistes of al sortes Summistes and Glosers out of the Cardinalles and those other learned and graue menne appointed by Paulus Tertius to geue information of thinges in the state of the Churche to be refourmed and out of the Bisshoppes speaking their mindes freely in the late Councel of Trent For we are wel assured how so euer M. Iewel telleth their tales for them they helde and mainteined the doctrine which we professe in euery condition What so euer therefore he bringeth out of them bearing any sound of wordes against the Catholike Faith as very litle it is that to that effecte he can bring though with heapes of their sayinges he hath filled his great Volume the same is either by heate of Disputation or by waie of Obiection against the Truthe after the Scholastical manner for the better opening of the Truthe or by vehemencie of zele or perhappes by humaine ouersight vttered otherwise then by them is determined in their Conclusions whereof the taking of aduantage is vndue and ouer captious or by some sleight of M. Iewel falsified and corrupted or to saie the least by vntrue cōstruction wrested to a sense by the Authour neuer intended How so euer it be they shew them selues either very blinde of iudgement or very contentious wranglers or very vaine Ianglers that allege the wordes of any Writer against the Catholique doctrine whose whole course of life shewed him to be Catholique Which is tolde vs by S. Augustine as a moste certaine rule whereby to vnderstand mennes wordes in matter of Religion And therefore thus he crieth out vpon the blindenesse of such men among whom M. Iewel maie take him selfe annumbred that wil not vnderstād mens wordes by their dedes Aug. contra Epist Parme. li. 3. cap. 4. Incredibilis est coecitas hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tāta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorū factorūque patesceret vsqueadeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt cōmemorent sancta Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis Prophetarū quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarū The blindnesse of men is inoredible and certainely I wote not how I might make one beleeue that there were such frowardnesse in men onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so faste shut vp that they allege the testimonies of the holy Scripture and doo not behold in the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded Wherefore seing the farre greater parte of M. Iewels Defence consisteth of their sayinges heaped together of whom some were either them selues or their workes being vntruly set forth after their death of suspect faith some found to fauour heretikes some professed heretikes some contrariwise knowen by publike profession of their life to be perfite Catholikes making litle accompt what they of the one side saie as being of no credite specially in matter of Faith and not doubting but these of the other side meant wel and godly how so euer their wordes by M. Iewel be abused corrupted and misconstrued in consideratiō thereof good Reader I iudged a short Treatie might suffice in this case shorte I meane in comparison of that Huge Volume fraught with so much voide impertinent and superfluous stuffe Otherwise it is longer I am wel assured then he shal euer be hable aptly truly and directly to confute I saie not but he maie do eftsones as he hath twise already donne that is to saie gather together a huge number of sayinges out of al sortes of Writers and printing this Treatie withal sende vs forth an other great booke conteining much stuffe to litle purpose and not once touching the very precise pointes wherein he is charged with foule errours and falshed But to come directly to the pointes by me thoroughly refelled and with good proufes to iustifie the same keeping him selfe in from idle ranging abroad in matters not denied or otherwise impertinent this is that I affirme he shal neuer be hable to perfourme though he write againe as muche as
doctrine Where the thing you treate of is not in controuersie betwene you and vs and where you speake not with affection to ouercome Strange manner of vttering the faith we graunt some tymes ye vtter truth But the manner of vtterance of your Faith is straunge to Christen eares who haue bene accustomed to heare Credo in Deum Credo in Iesum Christum Credo in spiritum Sanctum I beleeue in God I beleeue in Iesus Christe I beleeue in the holy Ghoste That other forme of wordes whiche you vse soundeth not so Christianlike I beleeue there is a God I beleeue that Iesus Christ is the Sonne of the Father I beleeue that the holy Ghoste is God Although this forme of wordes doo expresse a right Faith yet being suche as maie be vttered by Deuilles and hath bene alwaies vttered by Heretikes their ministers the auncient and holy Fathers haue liked better the olde fourme and manner after whiche euerie Christen man saith I beleeue in God I beleeue in Iesus Christe I beleeue in the holy Ghoste For this importeth a signification of Faith with Hope and Charitie that other of Faith only which the deuilles haue and tremble as S. Iames saith wherein as in many other thinges Iacob 2. these Defenders resemble them S. Augustine in sundry places putting a difference betwen these two formes of wordes vpon S. Iohn alleging S. Paules wordes To one that beleeueth in him who iustifieth the wicked his Faith is imputed to righteousnes Rom. 3. In Iohan. Tract 29. To beleue in God what is it demaundeth what is it to beleeue in him It is by his aunswer Credendo amare credendo diligere credendo in eum ire eius membris incorporari with beleeuing to loue him with beleeuing to goe into him and to be incorporate in his members that is to be made a member of his body In an other place he saith speaking of Christe De verbis Domini Serm. 61 it It forceth muche whether a man beleeue that he is Christ and whether he beleeue in Christ. For the Deuilles beleeued that he was Christ neither for al that beleeued the Deuilles in Christ For he beleeueth in Christe who both trusteth in Christe and loueth Christe For if he haue Faith without Hope and Loue he beleeueth that Christe is he beleeueth not in Christe So he that beleeueth in Christe with beleeuing into him shal Christe come and by some meane he is vnited vnto him and is made a member in his body Whiche can not be done excepte there come also both Hope and Charitie Thus S. Augustine The same doctrine he vttereth writing vpon the 77. Psalme By this thou seest â—â—â—â—ed I blâ—me not their 〈◊〉 dâ—sâ—â—â— the Trinitie not their Profâ—sâ—ion of the CoÌ„mon Creede as M. Iewell calleth it but only I seeme beâ—ter to allowâ— the auncient and vsual manner of vttering the Beleefe whiche for good reason hath euer seemed to the learned Fathers more commendable Reason and consideration of duetie would that a Minister of Gods worde should be a fraide to vtter so great and so manifest vntruthes vnto his liege Soueraine But of like some wil saie he wil amende that faulte in other partes of his Epistle to her Maiestie specially sith that he allegeth nothing but directeth the Reader vnto the place where it is to be founde by his quotation noted in the margent whiche hath at least some colour of vpright dealing and being founde false declareth an impudent falshod I would wish that for truthes sake al would reade and conferre and iudge of the oddes betwen vs bothe First thus he writeth Iewel The maine grounde of his vvhole Plea is this that the Bishop of Rome vvhaâ— so 〈◊〉 it â—â—al like him to determine in iudgemeÌ„t can neuer â—rrâ— Fâ—â— directioÌ„ of the Râ—â—der he quoteth thus Câ—sus fo 334. b Harding What he meaneth by his terme Plea I wote not ne care not I pleade not for right of any temporal thing Neither am I a lawier as he knoweth 〈◊〉 emploie my studie of Diuinitie to defendâ— the. Catholique Faâ—th and to detecte his falshod that Godâ— people be not by him and his felowes dangerously seduced The thing whereat he scoffeth for these wordes what so euer it shal like him to determine be scorneful wordes is not so vttered by me as he reporteth Who liste to see what I saie for so muche as the booke of my Confutation is not alwaies at handâ— thus it is The Pope succedeth Peter in auctoritie and power Confut. Fol. 334. b For whereas the shepe of Christe continewe to the worldes ende he is not wise that thinketh Christe to haue made a shepeherd teÌ„porarie for a time ouer his perpetual flocke Then what shepeherdly endoument our Lorde gaue to the first shepeherde at the institution of the shepeherdly office of the Churche that is he vnderstanded to haue geuen ordinarily to euery successour To Peter he gaue that he obteined by his praier made to the Father that his Faith should not faile Againe to him he gaue grace Luca. 22. that to performe the performance whereof at him he required to wit that he confirmed and strengthened his brethren Wherefore the grace of stedfastnes of faith and of confirming the wauering Hovv aÌ„d vvherin the Pope erreth not â—e neuer erred and doubteful in the Faith euery Pope obteineth of the holy Ghoste for the benefite of the Churche And so the Pope although he maie erre by personal errour in his owne priuate iudgement as a man and as a particular doctour in his owne opinion yet as he is Pope the successour of Peter the Vicare of Christe in earth the shepeherd of the vniuersal Churche in publike iudgement in deliberation and definitiue sentence he neuer erreth nor neuer erred For when so euer he ordeineth or determineth any thing by his high bishoply auctoritie intending to binde Christen menne to performe or beleeue the same he is alwaies gouerned and holpen with the grace and fauour of the holy Ghoste Answer M. Iewel to this if ye can Certainely hitherto ye haue not answered As for that you bring against it in your pretensed Defence there is no graue or learned man of your side that is not ashamed of it In that game of scoffing I doo gladly yelde you the garlande Your greatest Doctours there are Alphonsus de Castro and Erasmus menne of our age As for Erasmus it were easie to Answer him but here I thinke his tale not worthe the Answering Mary Alphonsus saith somewhat to your purpose if the tale whiche you make him to tel were his owne Certainely if he once wrote it when he beganne first to write afterwards with better aduise he reuoked it For in the bookes of the later printes those woordes whiche you reherse are not founde Thus you saie Defence pag. â—â—5 AlphoÌ„sus de haeresiae buâ— li. 1. cap. 4. Alphonsus de Castro one of M. Hardinges owne special Doctours saith Non dubitamus an Haereticum
Defenders require vs to follow the example of S. Irenaeus in that he as they saie appealed oftentimes to the oldest Churches whiche had benne nearest to Christes time and whiche it was hard to beleeue that they had erred thus I saie Confut. â—â—4 a. Ye would seeme to be faine that we folowed the aduise of S. Irenaeus We are content with al our hartes And with Irenaeus we appeale to that Tradition Irenaeus lib 3. ca. 8. which is from the Apostles which as he saith is kepte in the Churches by Priestes that succeded them With Irenaeus leauing other Churches whose succession of Bishopes it were a long worke to reherse we require to haue recourse for trial of our Faith to the tradition of doctrine of the Romaine Churche which he termeth greatest oldest Idem lib. 3. cap. 3. best knowen to al founded and set vp by the twoo most glorious Apostles Peter and Paule We appeale to the Faith of that Churche taught abrode in the worlde and by successions of Bishoppes brought downe vnto vs. For to this Churche saith Irenaeus must al the Church of Christe repaire where so euer it be for that it is the chiefe of al and for that the tradition of the true doctrine whiche the Apostles lefte behind them is there faithfully kepte Wherfore if ye would after the counsel of Irenaeus resorte to Rome for decision of the controuersies that be betwixte you and vs and would them to be tried by that sense of doctrine whiche hath continued by Successions of Bishoppes euen from Peter to Pius the fourth now Pope and would stand to the auctoritie of that See Apostolike al strife were ended we should be at accorde But we haue litle hope that ye wil folowe this godly counsel of S. Irenaeus that blessed Martyr whose bodie your brethren the Huguenotes of Fraunce villanously burned at Lions Anno Domini 1562. after it had rested there thirteen hundred yeres and more In al these wordes as thou seest reader I say not as M. Iewel beareth her Maiestie in hande I doo that we must learne to know the wil of God only at the Popes hande But I declare whether we may most safely resorte for decision of the controuersies that be betwixte vs and the Protestantes Whereunto M. Iewel hath not yet answered ne neuer shal be hable to answere though in the Defence he haue shuffled together a great heape of allegations nothing perteining to the present purpose as his custome is to doo and a great parte of my confutation there he hath cut of M. Iewel cutteth and mangleth the Confutation in infinite places leauing out wordes of greatest vveight and therby hath fowly mangled the same as for his aduantage he hath done in infinite places leauing out the matters whereunto he had not what reasonably to answere See the place Reader Defence pag. 701. and thou shalt finde my worde true Item there Iewel That in the Popes onely holinesse standeth the vnitie and safetie of the Churche Confut. 204. b. Harding If I had so said in a right sense it might wel be allowed Howbeit thus I said Confut. 204. b. As Christe gaue vnto S. Peter and his Successours for the benefite of his Churche a supreme auctoritie and power so for the same Churches sake for whose loue he deliuered him selfe to death by petition made to his Father he obteined for him and his Successours Ioan. 14. Luc. 22. the Priuiledge of this Supreme and most excellent Grace that their Faith should neuer faile In consideration of whiche singular priuiledge obteined by Christe and graunted to the See Apostolike and to none other S. Gregorie rebuketh Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople so much as one that presumptuously vsurped that new name of vniuersal Bishop against the Statutes of the Gospel and against the decrees of the Canons To coÌ„clude if either S. Gregorie or any other maÌ„ should saie that the Churche dependeth vpon one man he might seeme to saie truthe meaning rightly and that not alone nor without good authoritie For such a saying we finde vttered by S. Hierome Hieron Contra Luciferian The saftie of the Churche saith he dependeth vpon the dignitie of the highest priest who if he haue not auctoritie peerlesse and aboue al other there wil be so many schismes in the Churche as there be priestes Which peerlesse auctoritie aboue al other as S. Hierome in that place doth attribute vnto the Bishop of euery Dioces directly so consequently to Peters successour to whom it was said Feed my shepe Iohan. 21. For by what reason in ech Dioces it behoueth one priest to be highest ouer other Priestes by the same and in like proportioÌ„ no lesse it behoueth that in the whole Church one Bishop be highest ouer other Bishoppes I meane for auoiding of schismes This reason is not ne can not of M. Iewel be auoided Of other thinges impertinent he bringeth vs great stoare out of other men in the Defence Defence pag. 452. but to this very reason wherein standeth the pointe touching the maintenance and preseruation of vnitie he saith nothing Item there Iewel That vvho so euer is diuided from the Pope must be iudged an Heretique and that vvithout the obedience of him there is no hope of Saluation Confut. 306. b. Harding Who so euer is diuided not onely from the Pope but also from any other Catholique Bishoppe in faith ought to be iudged an Heretique As touching obedience Iohan. 21. whereas by Christe he is commaunded to Feede his Lambes and his sheepe and thereby hath commission to gouerne them how can he be saued from the rauening woolues who through disobedience refuseth to come into that Folde and to be fedde and guided of that high Pastor I confesse that in certaine cases besides faith a man may disobey the Pope and yet not be remoued from all hope of saluation My wordes for whiche you make so muche a doo are these vttered vpon occasion of your Apologie Confut. fol. 306. b. Ye put vs in minde to consider how that your selues are those priuate hil Aulters and darke groues For ye be they that stoppe the people from the commoÌ„ Temple of Christendom the Catholique Church out of which is no saluation the head whereof sitteth in Peters Chaire at Rome Item there Iewel And yet as though it vvere not sufficient for him so vainely to sooth a man in open errours he telleth vs also sadly and in good earnest that the same Bishop is not onely a Bishop but also a kinge Confut. fol. 80. a. 305. b. Harding Neither haue I in any place soothed the Pope in open Errours but haue graunted that certaine Popes had their Errours either before they were called to that roume or also afterwarde holding them priuately and as priuate Doctours That the Pope erreth how is it denied But that by any publique decree geuen out to be holden and obserued of the Churche they euer mainteined or gaue assent or
Vicare of Christe aboue Lordes and kinges of this worlde and to see Princes and Emperours promise and sweare obedience vnto him Confut. fol. 178. b Harding That all Kinges and Emperours receiue their whole power at the Popes hande I neuer said it ne wrote it nor that they ought to sweare obedience and Fealtie vnto him These wordes are not to be founde neither in the places whiche you haue coted nor in the whole Confutation els where What and how great obedience Christian Princes owe vnto the Churche and vnto Christes Vicare the chiefe Gouernour of the same this is no place at large to discusse The wordes that you allege I acknowledge to be myne If that whiche there foloweth be ioyned withal the whole circumstance of my discourse declaring what is my meaning considered nothing shal seeme said beside truthe or reason After the wordes before rehersed immediatly thus it foloweth But they Confut 178. b. It is no absurditie the shepherd to be in auctoritie ouer the vvhole flocke Distinct 96. C. duâ— sunt that are the faithful subiectes of the Church of God thinke it no absurditie that the shepherd be set not only aboue the Lambes and Ewes of the Churche but also aboue the Wethers and Rammes them selues It is a very great folie for them to finde faulte with the Superioritie of the Bishop of Rome who can neuer proue that he is not the Vicare of Christe If he were not his Vicare yet being a Bishop he is aboue any temporal Prince concerning his priestly office Lo M. Iewel by these and other my wordes in that place you might haue seene had you not bent your witte maliciously to stirre her Maiestie to hatred against vs what are the thinges and causes in whiche I reporte the Princes and highest estates of the world to stoupe vnto Christes Vicare and to promise him obedience As for Homage and Fealtie suche as Vassalles rendre vnto their temporal Princes in regard of temporal Dominion whereof by sownd of your speache you seeme to meane I spake not one word Is this the charitie of your Gospel M. Iewel by such vntrue meanes to incense the Prince against vs Item there Iewel VVhereas Pope Zacharias by the consent or the conspiracie of the Nobles of France deposed Chilpericus the true natural and liege Prince of that Realme and placed Pipinus in his roume Lo saith M. Harding ye must needes Confesse that this was a diuine power in the Pope for otherwise he could neuer haue donne it Thus muche he esteemeth the dishonours and ouerthrovves of Gods anointed Confut. Fol. 182. a. Harding Nay rather Lo saith M. Harding ye must needes confesse that M. Iewel belieth him and bothe vntruly reporteth his wordes and falsifieth that Storie For truly to speake it was not Pope Zacharie that deposed Childerike Let it be weighed what I saie touching this matter answering to the obiection which the Apologie maketh against the Popes in general These be my wordes Confut. Fol. 181. b. King Childerike of Fraunce deposed and Pipine aduaunced to the croune If the Pope Zacharias deposed Childerike for so I finde him more commonly named the king of Fraunce only vpon his owne pleasure or displeasure as ye saie and placed Pipine for him can ye tel that storie and not see what a strength of auctoritie is in that See which is hable with a worde to place and displace the mightiest king in Europe With a worde I saie for I am sure you can shewe vs of no armie that he sent to execute that his wil. Is that the power of a man trowe ye to appointe Kingdomes Can the Deuil him selfe at his pleasure set vp and depose Kinges No surely And muche lesse can any member of his doo the same Remember ye what Christe said when the Iewes obiected that he did cast out Deuilles Math. 12. in the name of the prince of Deuilles Beware ye sinne not against the holy Ghoste who confesse that the Pope hath pulled downe and set vp Kinges Which thing vndoubtedly he could not doo profitably and peaceably but by the great power of God And yet did that line of Pipine The prosperitie of the line of Pipine and Charles surmounted al other VVhat did Pope zacharias in the deposing of king Childerike and Charles the great whiche the Pope did set vp florish aboue any other stocke that ye can name sence the inclination of the Romaine Empire Whiche in that transposed state of so great a Kingdome maketh no obscure Argument of heauenly approbation and diuine prouidence Neither did the Pope Zacharias depose Childerike bicause he fansied him not as ye sclaunder but only consented to loose his subiectes from bonde of othe made to him at the general and most earnest request and sute of al the Nobilitie and communaltie of the whole realme of Fraunce VVhat manner a maÌ„ Childerike vvas finding him very vnprofitable and vnmeete for the kingdome as one who being of no witte and therefore commonly named Stupidus as muche to saie a dolt was altogethâ—â— besides like a Sardanapalus geuen wholly to belly chere and to filthy loue of women Therefore in your owne wordes ye confesse a diuine power in the Pope as by whom God directeth the willes of faithful princes on the earth The more such examples ye bring the worse ye make your cause I would hier you to ease me of the labour of prouing such a notable facte You that find so great fault with Pope Zacharias for coÌ„senting after a sort to the depositioÌ„ of Childerike a beastly man an vnprofitable and vnworthy King of Fraunce why do ye allow cherish and coÌ„mend so much Christofer Goodman and Iohn Knoxe with their felowes and helpers that were together at Geneua for writing intising and doing what in their power did lye to depose the noble and lawful Quenes of England and Scotland and with the Blastes of their traiterous Trompettes to remoue them from the right of their Crownes and roial estates Saith not Goodman that Wiat did his duetie in taking Armes against Queene Marie and that al such were Traitours as deceiued him and tooke not his parte If al be rightly constrewed the Quenes Maiestie of England now being I suppose hath no great cause GoodmaÌ„s bookes named the first and secoÌ„d blaste against the monstrous regimeÌ„t of vvomen Item an other hovv to obey or disobey VVith other the like fierbraÌ„des of knoxe aÌ„d Gilbie GoodmaÌ„ in the Treatie hovv to obeie or disobeie pag. 204. either to commende them for such seditious Blastes or to like wel of you and your companions for geuing eare winde and fauour to the blowing of the same If Goodman had ben Pope of Rome as Knoxe they saie taketh vpon him to be Pope of Scotland ô Lorde what Counterblastes would ye and your good fellow Trompeters eâ— this haue blowen vp against him Long er this tâ—e whole world should haue rong of it and the Pulpites whiche ye vse as your
wordes be simply beleeued let my Confutation of the Apologie be vewed and there I shal be founde touching these odious pointes of these princes Variance with the Popes of their time to haue vttered these woordes farre otherwise then he here reporteth Confut. fol. 339. b. Concerning the case between these three Kinges of England and the Bishoppes of Rome for the tyme being I say litle If they did wel and the Bishoppes euil they haue their rewarde the other their punishment If otherwise or how so euer ech one at Gods iudgement shal haue his deserued measure But be it graunted al were true ye say though we know the more parte to be false Henrie the secōd S. Thomas Arch bishop of Canturbury King Iohn What though king Henrie the Second were euil entreated of Pope Alexander about the murthering of S. Thomas the Archebishop of Canturburie and King Iohn likewise of that zelous and learned Pope Innocentius the thirde about the stirre he made against the Church for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop of Canturburie Henrie the .8 This is no iust cause to forsake the Churche King Henrie the eigth likewise of the Popes in our time about matters yet fresh bleeding Is this a good cause why ye who haue nothing to doo with Princes matters now ended and buried should forsake the Churche change your Faith change the whole order of Religion and condemne al before your time for a thousand yeres Bicause the Bishoppes of Rome haue done euil wil ye geue ouer the Faith of the Churche of Rome Bicause the Popes did wronge to Princes wil ye doo wrong to your selues Bicause the Popes were at Variance with these three Kinges wil ye be at Variance with God Bicause they excommunicated them wil ye excommunicate your selues I haue heard of a foole that being striken of one standing a looffe of would eftsones strike an other that stood next him But I neuer heard of any so foolish that seeing an other striken would therefore kill him selfe Verely your Apostasie and departing from the Catholique Churche is to weightie a matter to be defended with so light a reason Thou maist see good Reader that here I take not vpon me in Defence of those Popes to answere vnto these matters nor shortely as M. Iewel saith nor at length nor in light manner nor in sad manner which matters he calleth Tyrannical iniuries and iuste causes of griefe The more cleerely to shewe how litle good matter our new Vsurping Clergie haue to bring for the excuse and Defence of the Alteration they haue made in Religion and of their Schisme and departing from the Catholike Churche bicause in their Apologie they alleged these Practises of the Popes only I demaunde their tale for their better aduantage being graunted to be true whiche yet I saied expressely was knowen to be false for the more parte what reliefe their cause could haue thereby and how the euil doinges of the Bishoppes of Rome if it were graunted they did euil therein could be drawen to Defence of their owne worse doing To whiche demaunde M. Iewel by his silence in his pretensed Defence maketh al the worlde witnesse Defence Pag. 733. how vnhable he is to answere Howbeit in that place he vseth his common sleight by cutting awaie the chiefe parte of my tale wherein lyeth the weighte and so dischargeth him selfe of the paines of answering Any booke may so sone be answered Touching these Popes and these Kinges when M. Iewel or any of his felow Ministers shal truely and with sufficient reason proue vnto vs that Henrie the Second did wel when he gaue occasion that the blessed Martyr S. Thomas Archebishop of Canturburie was murdered that al King Iohns attemptes against the Churche for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop and primate of the same prouince were iuste and right and that King Henrie the eight did wel and according either to the holy Scriptures or doctrine of the auncient and learned Fathers when he tooke vpon him to be Supreme Head in earth of the Churche of England immediatly vnder Christe whiche no temporal prince euer tooke vpon him before and likewise when for maintenance of the same title he hanged headded and quartered so many holy and learned men of al degrees now blessed Sainctes and crowned Martyrs in heauen when I say either he or they or any of them shal proue this much vnto vs in such sorte as I said before then wil we say with them ô worthy Kinges ô naughty Popes yea then wil we saie too ô the crowe is white Neuerthelesse I doo not here iustifie al the deedes of the Popes But what so euer they did that is no sufficient cause why these menne should forsake their Faith and departe from the felowship of the Churche Item there Iewel But concerning the Maiestie and right of Kinges and Emperours M. Harding telleth vs they haue their first authoritie by the positiue Lavve of Nations and can haue no more povver then the people hath of vvhom they take their temporal iurisdiction Confutat Fol. 318. b. Harding If I haue herein spoken euil geue witnesse against me of euil Ye would faine finde a faulte I perceiue if ye wiste wherein You seeme not wel to vnderstand what you saie nor whereof you affirme But you allege the Scriptures Per me Reges regnant Prouer. 8. By me Kinges doo reigne And there is no power but from God very learnedly forsooth As though the auctoritie Rom. 13. that Princes haue by the positiue lawe of Nations and the power whiche they haue of the people were not of God as who vseth that meane to conueie that power vnto them Item there Iewel M. Harding euen in the selfe same booke vnder certaine general threates chargeth your Maiestie vvith disordered presumption by the example of Ozias the vvicked King vpon vvhom as he vntruly saith God sent his vengeance for the like Confut. fol. 298. a. Harding You would faine the Queenes Maiestie should conceiue hatred against me I perceiue M. Iewel and thereto you applie al your skil and cunning But Sir who deserueth more thankes at God and the Princes for the time being he that telleth them the Truthe and in time geueth warning to beware of Goddes Vengeance before it be to late or he that for his owne wordly interest holdeth his peace and leadeth them into a wrong way from the whiche if they returne not backe they are sure at length to feele either the temporal smarte of Goddes Vengeance in this life or the euerlasting smarte in the life to come Ye flatter ye flatter your Princes M. Iewel ye deceiue them ye blinde them ye worke al meanes possible that the Truthe be not brought to their vnderstanding least were it knowen and of them perceiued ye should be turned out of your welthy roumes and driuen againe to Geneua I had almost said Gehenna from whence ye came Certainely ye shutte vp the kingdome of Heauen from Princes and others so
of the ministration of them I vtterly condemne That I saie Their Faith is no Faith it is the sixthe lye I confesse it to be a Faith touching the pointes wherein they agree with the catholique Churche In the other pointes I saie it is no Faith but errour and heresie Albeit Arius the heretique had a Faith Eunomius had a Faith Nestorius Euctyhes Sabellius Photinus Apollinaris briefly al Heretiques had their Faithes but al were false Faithes as much to say no Faithes but as the Latines cal it Perfidia M. Iewel for some shewe of vpright dealing hath filled his margent in this place with cotations as thicke as they maie stand one by an other directing the reader to my bookes If it shal please the reader diligently to peruse the places bothe in my Confutation and in my Reioinder he shal trie him to be as he is euery where a false and a shamelesse lyer As for the Quenes Lawes The Quenes Lavves and Parlamentes and Parlamentes for change of Religion and Faith what haue I to doo with them whether they be lawes and Parlamentes or no Be they as they be It is not my profession to discusse that matter If there be any that doubte thereof let the learned men of lawe be demaunded their opinion If they wil not or if they be loth to speake what they thinke let the questiō be differred vntil the time come that M. Iewel and I shal be placed where we shal no more contende about the authoritie of mannes lawes 2. Cor. 5. but shal ech of vs receiue according to that we haue done in our bodies that is to saie accordingly as we haue in our doctrine and life either kept or broken Goddes lawes The age to come perhappes shal be hable to saie more therein then this present time It is an olde said sawe Filia temporis Veritas Truth is the daughter of time Let vs not trouble our selues about this odious question M. Iewel I praie you but referre it ouer to the time to come Yet bicause in your pretensed Defence ye beare menne in hande that I seeme to saie Defence pag. 595. that the Parlament holden in the firste yere of the Quenes Maiesties reigne was no Parlament for that the Bishops refused to agree vnto the statute made for change of Religion I wil here truely laie forth my wordes in whiche you auouche I seeme so to saie that it maie appeare to al menne what a quareller you are These be my wordes Confut. fol. 276 a. Where haue ye treated of your matters That matter hath benne treated saie ye in open Parlament with long consultation and before a notable Synode and Conuocation First in what Parlament Meane ye the first of our Soueraine Lady Quene Elizabeth or any of those of king Edward the sixth his daies c. If ye meane as by reason you must the Parlamentes of these later daies the first of al did make most for you and yet how open was it for you Had ye any place at al in it Were ye admitted within the doores Or had ye any thing to doo in that assemblie Consider then with what Consultation your purposes were concluded Did they tarie manie monethes about it Had they Bishoppes Had they Diuines and the most learned to reason too and fro with al libertie Was the authoritie of the Vniuersal Churche of Christe and the doctrine of the Auncient Fathers considered Ye saie in Latine Plenis Comitijs that is in the ful and whole assemblie as though none at al had there resisted but euery man had yelded to your matters What saie ye then of the Spiritual Lordes a great parte of the Parlament and without al doubte the parte whiche must be chiefly and onely regarded when the Question is of Religion How many of them gaue their voice to your Gospel Yea whiche of them al did not resiste it c. As of the Spiritual Lordes ye had none at al so of the Temporal ye had not al and so had ye also in the lower house very many and wel learned that spake against you * These vvordes folowing M. Ievvel nipte avvaie in the Defence And mo would had conscience benne as free as auctoritie was dredful And yet cal ye this a ful Parlament and a Parlament whiche had al his partes wholy fauouring you * Vpon these wordes M. Iewel maketh muche a doo in the Defence as if I had denied that Parlament to be a Parlament for lacke of the Bishoppes consent But whether I said so or no let these mine owne wordes before rehersed be the trial Touching the matter it selfe he saith how truely I doubt that in the Parlamentes of England for any Statute to be lawfully enacted the consent of Archebishoppes and Bishoppes hath not ben thought necessarie Defence pag. 595. and that matters haue passed only by the more parte of voices yea although these be his very wordes al Archebishoppes Defence Ibidem and Bishops were neuer so earnestly bent against it And yet he saith further whereat I marueil that Statutes so passing onely by the voices of the Lordes Temporal though the Lordes Spiritual dissente neuer so muche haue neuerthelesse alwaies ben confirmed enacted and published vnder the names of the Lordes Spiritual and Temporal If it be so then I perceiue it faieth with the lordes Spiritual as it faieth with me For as M. Iewel hath published and said many thinges vnder my name that I neuer said nor meant to thintent to discredite me if any happily be so simple that wil beleeue him So by this tale lawes be published vnder the name of Archebishoppes and Bishoppes who are the Lordes Spiritual vnto whiche they neuer gaue their assent but contrary wise earnestly dissented What this is to be called in the Statutes of the Realme I knowe not but in the writinges of priuate menne suche as Maister Iewels and myne are this practise of fathering wordes and sayinges vpon a man whiche he neuer said nor wrote is accompted vnlawful and false and commonly is named forgerie falsifying and belying the chiefe flowers wherewith M. Iewel alwaies decketh his garland He referreth me for further proufe of this matter to the Recordes of a Parlament holden by king Edward the first at S. Edmundes Burie the Archebishoppes and Bishopes being as he saith quite shutte forthe Anno Domini 1296 where he telleth me it is written thus Habito Rex cum suis Baronibus Parlamento Clero excluso statutum est c. The king keeping the Parlament with his Barons the Clergie that is to saie the Archebishoppes and Bishoppes being shutte forth it was enacted c. Perhappes the inferiour Clergie was excluded who as I haue heard Lawiers saie in olde time came to the Parlamentes and had their place in the lower house But that the Archebishoppes and Bishoppes were excluded thereof I doubte Item saith he in the time of king Henrie the thirde a statute touching the legitimation of
Iohn is said to haue erred was onely touching the soules of the iuste and perfit who were fully purged before their departure hence in quibus nihil erat purgabile cuÌ„ de hoc seculo decesserunt as it is shewed in Pope Benedictus Decretale before mencioned or were purged elswhere Defence pag. 617. after the separation from their bodies So that by this Purgatorie is not taken awaie at al as your skoffing tale that liketh you so wel pretendeth it to be Neither were the Heretiques that of S. Augustine are called Arabici the first Authours of this errour as you saie but the Armenians and Grecians if we maie beleeue Guido M. Iew. Vntruly attributeth that to Pope Iohn 22. whiche was written of Iohn 23. Now touching that you haue alleged out of the Councel of Constance in Appendite as you cal it I maruel with what face ye bring it in And what a great falshed is it to put in your booke the name of Pope Iohn the. 22. for Iohn the. 23. who was not borne within a hundred yeres after Iohn the. 22. The name of this Iohn the 23. was before he tooke vpon him to be Pope Balthazar de Cossa as there ye haue it declared Neither was it certaine that he helde that detestable opinion touching the Death of the body and Soule together it was but brought into the Councel of Constance in a bille of complainte conteining many other heinous Articles against him whiche were not proued It was a matter of Diffamation it was not of probation as by the bill it selfe it is expressed For there ye finde these wordes In Appendice Concilij Constantien The said Iohn the. 23. was of these thinges diffamed greuously before the clergie and the people Therefore it is thus said there of his Acousers Denunciant dicunt ponunt si necesse erit probare intendunt c. They denounce saie and put and if it shal be necessarie they intende to proue They that accuse and intende to proue if neede be haue not yet proued And God forbid al thinges shoulde be taken as true whereof some be accused How so euer it be Iohn the. 23. is not Iohn the. 22. no more then Iohn Iewel is Iohn Capon Neither was that three and twentith Iohn a true Pope lawfully elect but an vsurper as two others were with him at the same time whiche were deposed al three at the Councel of Constance and a newe Pope chosen So by this place ye haue prooued no heresie against Pope Iohn the. 22. nor against any true Pope at al but onely haue shewed your selfe a shamelesse shifter and one that hath a more malicious minde to hurte the authoritie of the Pope then matter of iuste accusation against him M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 6. cap. 6. Diuis 1. The Canonistes say the Pope can doe asmuche The. 7. Vntruth as Christe himselfe can doe To this I said it is false and sclaunderous M. Iewel replieth These wordes be most manifest and out of al question Extrà de translatione Episcopi Quanto Hostien Excepto peccato Papa potest quicquid Deus ipse potest Excepte sinne the Pope can doo asmuche as God him selfe can doo This is a most manifest and out of al question to vse this mannes owne wordes a foule corruption Certainely Hostiensis saith not so But bicause the Pope is the Vicare of Christe in earth and God ratifieth what so euer he doth in binding or loosing so it be donne duely and rightly Claue non errante as the Canonistes speake hauing reckened certaine thinges wherein the Popâ— hath authoritie as vnder God and as Christes high officer he concludeth with these wordes Breuiter exceptâ— peccatâ— Ibidem quasi omnia de iure potest vt Deus Briefly excepte sinne he hath power as a man would say in al thinges of right as God Thus saith Hostiensis and not as M. Iewel belieth him And this saying being rightly vnderstanded is a true saying What soeuer the Pope doth or God doth by the Pope that is aboue the power and authoritie of man the same is he said to doo not as man but vt Deus as God bicause he doth it as being the Vicare of Christe as bearing the steede of God And therfore it is said by the learned Canonistes wherewith also M. Iewel beside learning Cap. Romana 1. respon de Appell 6. HostieÌ„sis fovvly corrupted by M. Ievv or reason findeth fault that the Consistorie of God and the Pope is one Consistorie as a Bishops and his Chancellours CoÌ„sistorie is one and the same CoÌ„sistorie Now let vs consider the impudencie of this false Minister First he auoucheth his shamelesse lye boldly as though where truth faileth for shew of proufe the matter might be stowted out The wordes saith he be most manifest and out of al questioÌ„ Excepto peccato Papa potest quicquid Deus ipse potest That is to say the Pope can do as much as Christ him self can do But what if these wordes be not most manifest Is it not then a most manifest impudencie so to affirme of them What if they be not out of al doubte Is it not then out of al doubte that this Minister is a Minister of lyes Certainely the wordes of Hostiensis be those very precise wordes which here I haue alleged and no other See then good Reader this mannes truthe whereof he so muche craketh First Hovv many vntrue partes M. Ievvel plaieth at once he corrupteth the sentence by leauing out sundry the Doctours wordes and telleth his tale for him in such wise as he may finde occasion to carpe him For he hath nipte away first this worde Breuiter which admonisheth the redaer to haue recourse to that goeth before then this worde Quasi which being added by good discretion mitigateth and qualifieth the saying that otherwise perhaps might seeme ouer vehement then againe those other wordes of necessarie importance otÌ„a de iure and vt Next he corrupteth the sentence by putting too of his owne those wordes besides Papa for which I greatly blame him not quicquid and Ipse and that by way of emphasie that the whole might seme the more absurd Besides al this he inuerteth the whole sentence and maketh of Hostiensis true and reasonable saying a blasphemous and â—onde saying of his owne whereof that great learned man did neuer so muche as dreame And who woulde thincke that any man hauing his right witte woulde speake so vainely and so farre biyonde al sufferance of Christian eares that the Pope can doo as muche as God him selfe can doo And yet must al this be faced out and M. Iewel must haue leaue to saie it is most manifeste it is out of al question Who euer saw one litle poore sentence so nipte so hackte so hewed and mangled so turned and caste in a new molde And bicause it liked him wel that is to saie bicause it should mislike al good menne he hath made great stoare of
in So were they restored and held their former roumes And thereupon were made diuers cries in signification of ioy Thus it is euideÌ„t that Iuuenalis and Thalassius were not condemned by the Ciuile Magistrate as M. Iewel saith But M. Iewel allegeth Pope Leos Epistle to Anatholius the B. of Constantinople speaking of these Bishoppes to proue I cannot tel what Defence pag. 683. For thereof it can not be gathered that they were condemned by the ciuile Magistrate These be the wordes of Leo. De nominibus Dioscori c. Touching the names of Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Eustathius Leo epist 40. ad AnatholiuÌ„ not to be rehearsed at the holy Aulter it becoÌ„meth you to kepe this muche By these wordes and the other that folow immediatly Leo required Anatholi to see that the names of those Bishops that had coÌ„sented to Dioscorus vnto the vniust condeÌ„nation of blessed B. Flauianus should not as the manner then was be rehersed at th'Aulter in the time of the Masse among other Catholik Bishops wherby they were praied for specially in that Church of CoÌ„staÌ„tinople wher Flauianus had ben bishop Ibidem that so iniurie should not be donne saith he vnto the blessed memorie of Flauianus and that by so doing he should not turne awaie the mindes of the Christian people from his owne grace and fauour For how could the people gladly heare their names rehearsed in that Churche Iuuenaliâ— not condeÌ„ned in the Councel of ChalcedoÌ„ by Vvitnes of Leo Leo ad IuuenaleÌ„ epist 72. by whom the most worthy Bishop of the same Church was most vniustly condeÌ„ned and deposed As for Iuuenalis the Bishop of IerusaleÌ„ Leo him selfe in his Epistle vnto him is a manifest witnes that he was not coÌ„deÌ„ned but restored againe vnto his Bishoprik For thus he writeth vnto him among other thinges Gauisus quideÌ„ sum quòd tibi ad Episcopatus tui sedem redire licuisset I reioised that it was made lawful for thee to returne home againe vnto thy Bishoprike Againe he saith vnto him eftsones there In tempore indulgentia resipiscentiam magis quà m pertinaciaÌ„ de legisti In the time when pardon might be obteined thou hast chosen amendement rather then stubbornesse Thus I haue sufficiently proued that the six Bishops M. Iewel not hauing sene the Original but trusting to an others note as it seemeth nameth but only three were not condemned of the ciuile Magistrate by sentence of his owne mouth but that Dioscorus and not one els was condemned and deposed not by lay Magistrates who gaue place to the Bishops in that case as I haue before declared but by sentence of the Popes Legates and by the Councel it selfe Now bicause M. Iewel taketh me vp very roundely in his pretensed Defence as if he had gotten a great coÌ„quest against me whereas after a huge number of shamelesse Vntruthes he chargeth me with many Vntruthes I wil here by waie of a briefe dialogue answere him reporting his wordes none otherwise then he him selfe hath vttered them speaking vnto me in his booke Iewel Defence Pag. 685. Novve shortly to consider the vvhole substance of your tale first ye say these three Bishops Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Thalassius vvere neuer condemned in the Councel of Chalcedon M. Iewels obiection of Vntruthes ansvvered This ye see is one vntruth Harding In deede I see it and graunt it to be an Vntruth But of your parte M. Iewel not of mine For as now ye see it by me sufficiently prooued onely Dioscorus the B. of Alexandria was condemned and that by the Councel not by the Ciuile Magistrate as you vntruly affirme Iuuenalis Thalassius and the other three in consideration of their submission and agreeing in beleefe vnto the Councel were pardoned admitted into the Councel and restored vnto their former roumes and dignities Iewel Secondly ye saie the Ciuile Magistrate neuer condemned them This is an other vntruthe Harding True it is it is an other Vntruthe But it is yours not myne For in deede as I haue before proued the Ciuile Magistrate did not condemne them but the Councel of Bishoppes condemned Dioscorus onely This being true it followeth that your contrarie saying is an Vntruthe Iewel Thirdly ye saie Iunenalis and Thalassius vvere rebuked for fitting as iudges in Councel vvithout the Popes authoritie These are tvvo other vntruthes Harding Ye are rise of your Vntruthes Of two I returne one backe vnto you againe For the reporte you make of my wordes is vntrue Looke better in my Confutation There ye shal finde me to speake otherwise not determinatly as you report but coniecturally thus Confutat fol. 316. a They might wel haue rebuke for misusing them selues in the seconde Councel at Ephesus where they sate like Iudges without authoritie of the See of Rome Al this considered with that I haue declared before touching this whole matter lâ—â— the indifferent reader iudge yea one of your owne secte being learned if he wil take the paines to vewe and conferre al that I haue here written with the place in your pretensed Defence whether I had not iust cause to saie as I said in my Confutation what is Impudencie what is licenceous lying what is false dealing if this be not If I seeme ouer long Reader in this point the blame ought to be M. Iewels whose manifold Vntruthes and shamelesse shiftes vsed in his Defence to coloure this matter haue driuen me to vse more prolixitie then otherwise I woulde haue donne After this folow in M. Iewels View of his Vntruthes six mo Vntruthes whiche although he hath aduisedly chosen bothe out of my Reioindre and out of my Confutation as the easiest for him to make his answer vnto and to defende yet by ought he is hable to saie he hath not so iustified the leaste but that he maie yet stande charged The three vntruthes of the Apologie next folowing be of no great weight I confesse And therefore I wil not spend time about them Yet great malice maie lye hidde vnder smal trifles For the trial of them I referre the Reader to bothe our bookes The. 11. The. 12. The. 13. Vntruth Reioind fol. 251. b. The Apologie part 2 c. 13. d. 1. Apology part 2. c 1 Diuis 1. What I said of these wordes post finem orationum true it is and vntrue it is that M. Iewel saith Likewise Origen hath Ille Cibus that meate not ille Panis as M. Iewel vntruly alleged As for the place of S. Augustine whiche M. Iewel noteth in his 13. Vntruthe whether the worde be Oportet or Potest it is doubteful Bookes of diuers editions haue diuersly The point which by that place he woulde proue conteineth heresie So that though it were not an Vntruth in worde yet is it a great Vntruthe in sense and meaning M. Ievv The Apologie Parte 5. cap. 3. Diuis 11. The olde Councel of Carthage commaunded nothing to be readde in the Congregation but the Canonical Scriptures The. 14. Vntruth This olde Councel
against Gods Truth I had thought M. Iewel that the doctrine whiche teacheth vs to obeye God more then menne were fulfilled rather by suffering the penaltie of mans lawe or wil being contrarie to Goddes Lawe and wil then by resisting man put in authoritie by God as S. Peter who wrote the foresaid wordes suffered scourging Act. 5. contumelies and emprisonment rather then he would obey the Magistrate commaunding him not to preache nor teache in the name of Iesus If the prince commaunde Heresie or Idolatrie the waie to obey both God and the Prince is to keepe thee from yelding to Heresie or committing of Idolatrie and for Goddes sake to susteine the pounishment what soeuer the Prince putteth vpon the breakers of his commaundement For it is two thinges and much different to obey the Prince in an vnlawful request and to take Armes against the Prince Round capped Ministers Both we God be praised for the Catholike faith and your Rounde capped Ministers for their Cappes and Hattes refuse to obey the Quenes Maiesties commaundement The Prīce not to be obeied by M. Iewels Diuinitie vvhen Gods cause is touched touching matters of conscience bicause we knowe right wel and they pretende to thinke also that by suche commaundement of the Prince Goddes glorie is touched In whiche case you saie M. Iewel the Prince is not to be obeyed Yet God be praised neither we nor they doo take Armes or attempte any force against our Prince as these Nobles of Scotland haue done We haue not so learned S. Peters lesson We haue not so learned to obeye God more then man But we doo rightly iudge and protest such demeanure to be an open disobediēce both to God and to man And yet saie you M. Iewel and that in your booke dedicated for a singular present vnto the Quenes most excellent Maiestie that these Nobles of Scotland had learned S. Peters lesson Tel vs in good sooth if the Catholike Nobilitie and Commons of England who take your heresies to be against Gods truthe as they are in deede shoulde deale with the Quenes Maiestie for matters of Religion whiche God forbid as the Nobles of Scotland haue dealte with their liege Soueraine would you defende their so doing by S. Peter and the prophete Dauid and saie that God is more to be obeyed then man I perceiue you are so selfe willed and so addicted to your faction that if you were a Papiste you would doo no lesse and be as ready to helpe suche a matter forwarde in England as Beza your good brother in Fraunce as the Gues here in the lowe Countries and as Knox in Scotland haue benne But we openly protest before God and the worlde that we condemne and defie al such attemptes I meane that any Subiecte or Subiectes what so euer of their owne priuate authoritie should take Armes against their Prince for matters of Religion This we doo teache to be plaine disobedience bothe to God and to the Prince This haue your Nobles of Scotland done more then once And therefore you haue done vntruely and lewdly I wil not saie traiterously to the preiudice of the Quenes Maiesties owne safetie in defending them and in calling their outragious attemptes suche obedience as S. Peter taught which was suche Treason and Rebellion as S. Paule condemneth Rom. 13. saying Let euery soule be subiecte to the higher powers c. The Doctours whom you allege make clearely against those Nobles Leo de passione Domini Serm. 10. whose rebellion you defende Leo saith To geue vnto Caesar that whiche is Caesars is not to rebel against Caesar but to helpe Caesar But your Nobles rebelled against their Prince Ergo they gaue not that to Caesar whiche was Caesars Againe the Christians of whom S. Ambrose speaketh Ambrosius lib. 5. Epist 33. said to the Emperour Rogamus Auguste non pugnamus we beseche thee Noble Emperour we fight not But your Nobles fought against their Prince they humbly besought not their Prince And yet ô extreme impudencie these places you allege to shewe the obedience of those Nobles After this as thoughe al the eares of Englande were stopped and their wittes bewitched you conclude in this wise Iewel pag. 17. To conclude the Queene of Scotland is stil in quiet possession of her estate Harding And what wil you sticke to saie or write M. Iewel whiche doo saie write and set out in printe suche a palpable and manifest falsehod Suche I saie as euen the very Tankerdbearers of London and al others of the basest sorte besides can witnesse against you What was not the Queene of Scotland of late imprisoned in her owne realme And had she not benne in prison long before your booke came forth And is a Prince cast in prison by his owne Subiectes stil in quiet possession of his estate What wil you make vs beleeue that the Reuerend Fathers the old and only true Bishoppes of our countrie are nowe stil in quiet possession of their Bishoprikes whom al England knoweth to haue susteined emprisonment these eight yeres and more for their constant profession Gods holy name be blessed of Gods Truthe Goe M. Iewel and tel this tale in the new founde Ilandes of India For not only al England but al Fraunce Spaine Germanie Italie yea as it maie be thought a good parte of Turkie it selfe can controlle you of this most infamous lye that the Queene of Scotland is stil in quiet possession of her estate God keepe you and your brethren in suche a quiet possession if ye wil teache the truthe no better then in this Princes daies ye haue taughte Yet you adde farther and saie of the Quene of Scotland Iewel Ibidem And shee is obeied of her subiectes as farre as is conuenient for godly people to obey their Prince Harding Lo a Quene being the right prince of a realme violently and besides al order of law by her subiectes thrust out of her roial estate is yet obeied of her subiectes so farre as is conuenient for godly people to obey their Prince Then by your doctrine M. Iewel it is conuenient for godly people violently to bereue their prince of princely estate if they like not his Religion and yet in so doing they obey Let vs suppose halfe a realme to be Catholiques whom ye cal Papistes halfe Protestantes Shal the Papistes depose their Protestant Prince shal the Protestant Subiectes depose their Papist Prince If ye teache not this what is that ye teache Are not you nowe one of them that teache Subiectes to take Armes against their Prince Thus muche and more whiche I omitte haue you said of the Quene of Scotland and yet how promised you that you woulde saie nothing Truely it had benne better for you and more for your honestie to haue said nothing in deede and to haue dissembled the whole matter as you haue done many other special matters and suche as be of greatest importance in my Confutation then thus to haue bewraied your traiterous
lib. coÌ„t 9. sectas In the booke in tituled Recta fides de Caena Domin nor by writinges nor by worde nor by deede as the Lord hath commaunded whether he be Zuenckfeldius or Zuinglius or what soeuer he be called And in an other place he condemneth by name Zuinglius Carolostadius and Oecolampadius with al their diuers and dissonant sacramentarie heresies Nicolaus Amsdorffius a famous Superindent in Germanie saith thus plainely Thirdely we condemne the Sacramentaries Zuinglius and his felowes The publike write of the princes of Mansfeld and of the yonger princes of Saxonie doth recken vp in the rolle of condemned Heretiques the Sacramentaries by name Ioachimus Westphalus saith No false doctrine is so farre spred none with such labour and hypocrisie is defended â—oâ—e hath more beguiled the worlde then this false doctrine of the blessed Sacrament meaning Caluines owne doctrine learned first of Berengarius of whom you haue no cause you saie to be ashamed If Heretiques of your own schoole can not make you ashamed of Berengarius and his doctrine what say you to the great General Councel holden at S. Iohn Laterane in Rome vnder Innocentius the third CouÌ„cel of Laterane thereof called Concilium Lateranense That Councel was an vniuersal assemblie out of al partes of Christendom Platina in InnoceÌ„tio tertio The great Assemblie of Laterane Councel as wel out of the Greeke Church as out of the Latine The Patriarkes of Constantinople and Hierusalem were there present Archebishoppes were there threescore and ten Bishoppes foure hundred and twelue Abbates and Priores more then eight hundred There were at that Councel the Ambassadours of both Emperours both of the West Churche and of the East also of the kinges of Hierusalem of Fraunce of Spaine of England and of Cyprus In this Councel so general and vniuersal the Heresie of Berengarius was condemned Concil Lateran Cap. 1. and the doctrine of Transubstantiation by occasion of his heresie exactly and fully discussed was by general consent of al plainely and clearely confirmed If the Sentence Consent and Accorde of the whole vniuersal Church can moue you M. Iewel then haue you good cause to be ashamed of Berengarius whose heresie was in so ful ample and General a Councel condemned as none in this worlde was euer greater If al this moue you not yet let Berengarius him selfe De Consecrat Dist 2. Ego BereÌ„garius whom you esteme so muche moue you to be ashamed of his doctrine of the whiche he him selfe was so muche ashamed at length and not onely in iudgement openlâ— recanted but also 〈◊〉 the houre of his Death ful bitterlâ— and hartily repented him selfe thereof as by sides otherâ— Guilelmus Malmesburiensis recordeth saying thus Guilelmus Malmesburiensis de gastis Anglorum lib. 3. Ipse Berengarius die Epiphaniorum moriens gâ—â—iâ—â—â— producto recordatus quot miseros quondam adolescenâ— primo errâ—ris â—alâ—tâ— secta infecerit bodie inquit in die Apparitionis suae apparabit mihi Dominus meus Iesus Christus vel propter poenitentiam vt spero ad gloriam vel propter alios vt timeâ— ad poenam Nos sanè credimus post benedictionem Ecclesiasticam illa Mysteria esse verum corpus sanguinem saluatoris adducti veteris Ecclesiae authoritate maltis noâ—iter ostensis miraculis Berengâ—rius himselfe as he laie dying vpon the Epiphanie daie whiche we cal Twelfth daie and with heauy be wailing called vnto remembrance how many miserable personnes he had infected with his heresie in youth at the firste heatâ— of the Sacramentarie Errour spake these wordes He alluded to the vvord Epiphanie vvhiche signifieth appearing or reuealiÌ„g This daie my Lorde Iesus Christe being the daie of his appearance shal appeare vnto me either to glorie as I truste bicause it repenteth me of my heresie or to pounishment as I feare me for the sake of others whom I haue seduced What so euer it shal please God to doe with me Truely I beleeue that after Consecration vsed in the Churche those Mysteries are the true Bodie and Bloude of our Sauiour being persuaded both by the authoritie of the auncient Churche and by many Miracles shewed of late yeres Thus ye maie see how so euer ye be not ashamed of Berengarius that yet Berengarius is ashamed of you Iewel Pag. 48. But as for your doctrine bicause it is only of your selues therefore it falleth daily and is novv forsaken the vvorlde through Harding Our doctrine is the doctrine of the Fathers not of our selues neither is the same forsaken The Catholique doctrine The .16 Chapt. The Fathers of the first 600. yeres reiected In institut Cap. 18. de coena Domi. Iacobus Acontius StratageÌ„ Sathan lib. 6. whiche you cal oures hath ben by your owne Confession welneare a thowsand yeres olde I cal your Confession your solemne prescription of the first .600 yeres For prescribing the one ye renounce the other It can not therefore seeme to be of vs that liue now whiche by your owne Confession hath ben so auncient Howbeit it is euident the first 600. yeres stande as fully for vs as doo the later Therefore Iohn Caluine accuseth the first 600. yeres of Iudaisme and of Iewish superstition namely in the matter of the blessed Sacrifice Therefore Iacobus Acontius one of your owne side in his booke dedicated to the Quenes Maiestie plainely misliketh and reproueth such as offer to be tried by the auncient Fathers calling it perniciosissimam omninoque fugiendam consuetudinem a most pernicious custome and altogether to be auoided Therefore M. Nowel as this Acontius calleth it a * Valde amplum spatium Novvel in the preface of his first booke large scope to trie matters by the Fathers And he that hath vttered so muche blasphemie against the Crosse of Christe for his parte also protesteth plainely In the booke against the Cross that he wil not be tried by the Fathers And why al this M. Iewel Mary thâ—y know â—ight wel that by the Fathers you are condemned and that our doctrine by them is clearely established Wâ— therefore haue learned of our Auncestours al that we teache We haue inuented nothing of our selues Your beginning is knowen and is yet in mannes memorie When Papistrie as you cal it beganne you can neuer 〈◊〉 for your life The Gospelleâ— I shal neuer be haÌ„ble to shevv vvhen Papistrie beganne otherwise then with the beginning of Christes gospel Shewe once M. Iewel when in what age in what place Countrie Citie or Churche of whom vnder what Pope Emperour or Prince Papistrie beganne and then saie hardely it is our Doctrine and only of our selues Except you shewe this your lie wil seme palpable If ye haue ought to shew for the worship of your cause bring it forth be it but one sentence or one halfe sentence The Catholique doctrine vntruly reported by M. Ievvel to be forsaken al the vvorld through In like manner a sensible and a palpable lie it
This declaration and determination you take to be a grosse and a palpable errour For you are not ashamed you saie of Berengarius doctrine But Sir if this were a grosse and a palpable Errour how say you then did al those Patriarkes Archebisshoppes Bishoppes Abbates Doctours and learned Priestes grossely and palpably erre Did the Emperours both of the Grecians and of the Latines the Kinges of Fraunce Spaine England Hierusalem Cyprus whose Ambassadours and Oratours were there representing the personnes of their Princes and people to them subiecte did al these also erre with al their people and subiectes grossely and palpably This question then I demaund of you M. Iewel At these daies and in that age where was the Churche of Christe By you al erred grossely and palpably Berengarius him selfe whose doctrine was there condemned had both recanted his Heresie that you holde now and was longe before that time dead and buried There was not a man liuing at that daie who was knowen in the vnitie of the Churche to maineteine that doctrine whiche that Councel condemned and whiche you now doo mainteine Only Almaricus Almaricus is noted of the Chronographers to haue liued about the time of that Councel and to haue holden the heresie of Berengarius Pantaleō Bernard Lutzenburg Gaguinus Lib. 6. Pag. 48. But M. Iewel hath plainely renounced this Almaricus He said before of Abailard and Almarike and certaine other we haue no skil They are none of ours Then as I said there was not so muche as one man knowen at that time in the vnitie of the Churche and allowed by your iudgement to haue holden the opinion by that General Councel condemned This being so either that Councel helde the vnitie of Christes Churche or elles at that time Christe had no Churche at al. But Christes Churche endureth for euer Pag. 32. you haue your felfe before confessed it therefore we must beleue that the said Councel helde the vnitie of Christes Church and the doctrine by the Fathers of the same approued is the true and Catholique doctrine of the Churche and your Sacramentarie opinion to the contrarye at this daie is a condemned heresie In like sorte by Induction we might discourse of the other General Councelles But this one for example maie suffice to proue that the same pointes of doctrine which you cal grosse and palpable Errours M. Ievvel acknovvlegeth al the partes of doctrine vvher in he varieth from vs to be approued by the Churche in General Councelles fully discussed and confirmed in Councelles are no Errours at al but Catholike verities and truthes tried and confirmed by the highest and most infallible Authoritie that is in earth And we haue al good cause to reioise M. Iewel that by the force of truthe ye are driuen so freely and so plainely to graunt vnto vs the confirmation and Approbation of Councelles for al such pointes of doctrine as we defende against you termed by you modestly I trowe and without heate or choler Grosse and palpable Errours He must needes be a great fauourer of your secte that vpon the warrant of your mouth only wil holde the general determinations of Councelles for grosse and palpable Errours And very grosse must he be that seeth not the proude Luciferly sprite breathing forth of you in such a malapert and sawcy controllement of them whom God ordeined in their time to gouerne his Church No no M. Iewel your mouth is no iuste measure your penne is no right square your verdite is very insufficient for a dew resolutiō thereof to be taken in matters of such importance Yet haue you forsooth an example for your so doing and that of no lesse man then S. Augustine him selfe For thus you inferre to iustifie your former asseuerations Iewel Ibidem August Contra Maximin lib. 3. c. 14. Therefore vve maie iustly saie to you as S. Augustine sometime said to Maximinus the Arian heretike Neither maie I laie to thee the Councel of Nice nor maiest thou laie to me the Councel of Ariminum either of vs thinking thereby to finde preiudice against the other But let vs laie matter to matter cause to cause and reason to reason by the Authoritie of the Scriptures Harding How litle this place of S. Augustine serueth M. Iewels purpose and how falsly by him it is alleged How your therefore foloweth M. Iewel I see not The .19 Chapt. excepte you wil reason thus The later Councelles haue confirmed grosse and palpable errours Therefore you wil not that we should laye them against you no more then S. Augustine would laye the Nicene Coūcel against Maximinus the Arian See you not howe vntowardly this your therefore foloweth For admit that we graunted you that the late Councelles were erroneous which we wil not ne may not in any wise graunt you yet you wil not I trowe saie that the Nicene Councel also was erroneous If the Nicene Coūcel were not erroneous but a most Autentike and Catholique Councel what deduction can you make from the one to the other If S. Augustine had refused the Nicene Councel as you refuse the late Councelles that is if he had condemned the Nicene Councel of grosse and palpable errours as you doo condemne the later Councelles then had the example of S. Augustine serued your turne this being presupposed that these later Councelles were suche as you sclaunder them to be Now S. Augustine doth not so put of the Nicene Councel either as an erroneous Councel or as an Authoritie insufficient whereby to controlle the Heretike but partely bicause the Heretike quarelled about the name of an other Councel at Ariminum which was no lawful Councel in deede but a schismatical and heretical conuenticle and yet were there at it 800. Bishoppes but for wante of Damasus the Popes confirmation Sozom. lib. 6. cap. 23. Theodor. lib. 2. cap. 21. as Sozomenus and Theodoritus doo write it was accompted for none partely also bicause he sawe him selfe sufficiently instructed otherwise with holy scriptures to confute the Arian For these two causes to cut of occasion of longer brabling and to drawe the sooner to an issue for it was in an open disputation before a multitude not in priuate writinges carried to and fro S Augustine was content to laie aside the aduantage that he had of the Nicene Councel vpon condition the Arian would brable no more of the Councel of Ariminum This did S. Augustine of Christian policie and by occasion then ministred and not as geuing example to others to shake of al Authoritie of Councelles as you doo M. Iewel of a great many Againe you require vs to presse you no more with the late general Councelles of Laterane of Constāce of Florence of Trent and such other as the Arian required not to be pressed with the Nicene but you haue not so much as the name of one Councel of your parte for the whiche we might by waie of composition yelde our Councelles that you also might yelde
yours as the Arians had the names of that of Ariminum and certaine other Councelles holden by the Arians Your heresies God be praised haue not yet prospered so much that ye might haue hundreds of Bishoppes to assemble and determine on your side as the Arians had Therefore againe your case is very vnlike and your example of S. Augustine and the Arian very vneuen When you haue Councelles on your fitlâ— that shal make for the proufe of your Doctrine and for condemnation of our Doctrine then maye this place of S. Augustine seeme to serue your purpose Last of al your accustomed legierdemaine in citing this place openeth your falshood For in the sentence immediatly going before the wordes by you alleged S. Augustine professeth plainely the authoritie of the Nicene Councel to haue ben sufficient for conuincing of the Arian heretike Thus he saith Hoc est illud Homusion Lib. 3. ca. 14. contra MaximinuÌ„ ArianuÌ„ quod in Concilio Niceno aduersus haereticos Arianos à Catholicis patribus veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate firmatum est This is that Doctrine concerning Homusion whiche in the Councel of Nice was confirmed against the Arian heretiques with the Authoritie of Truthe and with the Truthe of Authoritie S. Augugustine falsly alleged by M. Ievv vvordes of chiefe importaÌ„ce quite lefte out Sed nunc Streight after it foloweth Sed nunc nec ega c. But now at this present neither wil I laye against thee c. as before you alleged it These wordes Sed nunc But nowe whiche importe the doing of S. Augustine to haue ben but for that present time and occasion and doo shewe that he meant not generally to renounce the Nicene Councel those wordes I saie M. Iewel you quite leafte out alleging S. Augustines wordes in such sorte as if he had peremptorily and precisely protested that the Arian had ben no more bounde to the Authoritie of the Nicene Councel then he him selfe was bounde to the Councel of Ariminum Whereas both before he plainely protested that the Catholike Fathers of the Nicene Councel had determined against the Arian heretiques veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate By authoritie of Truth and by truthe of Authoritie and also in this later saying restrained him selfe only to the time present for cause beforâ— mencioned O how would that blessed Father be agreeued if now he were a liue and sawe his sayinges so peruersly wrested to a sense by him neuer meant nor intended and that drawen to mainetenance of heresie wherein he relented for better meanes to be had towardes the Confutation of heresie In what credite and estimation S. Augustine had General Councelles The 20. Chapt. Howbeit this blessed Father touching the credite and authoritie of lawful Councelles not only in this present place as it now appeareth but also in others of his workes hath written so circumspectly and warely that excepte heretiques were of very purpose and mere wilfulnesse sette to peruerte the truthe they coulde neuer haue piked out of his sayinges so muche as any colour of aduantage to the preiudice of Councelles Contrarywise to the aduauncement of their credite and estimation he writeth in sundry places Verely to the Donatistes being confuted and conuinced by a great Assemblie of the Aphrican Bishoppes August epist 152. Ad populuÌ„ factionis Donatiaâ—a he saith Nulla excusatio iam remansit Nimium dura nimium diabolica sunt hominum corda quae adhuc tantae manifestationi veritatis obsistunt There remaineth now no excuse The hartes of menne are too too harde and too too deuilish whiche doo yet withstande the truth so clearely opened vnto them How much better may we saie this vnto you and your companions M. Iewel whose heresies haue ben detected and learnedly confuted in the late General Councel of Trent vnto the whiche out of al Catholique Countries of Christendome Bishopes and the best learned menne were assembled Againe disputing against the errour of S. Cyprian touching the rebaptizing of such as heretiques had baptized in the ende he concludeth with the Authoritie of a General Councel and protesteth that he him selfe would not haue ben so bolde as in such sorte to confute that holy Fathers opinion excepte he had had the General Councel on his side These are his wordes August de Baptismo coÌ„tra Donatist li. 2. cap. 4. Nec nos ipsi tale aliquid auderemus asserere nisi vniuersae Ecclesiae concordissima authoritate firmati cui ipse sine dubio cederet si iam illo tempore quaestionis huius veritas eliquata declarata per plenarium ConciliuÌ„ solidaretur Neither should we be so bolde as to affirme so much but that we are assuredly vpholden with the authoritie of the most vniforme consent of the vniuersal Church To the which S. Cyprian him selfe would vndoubtedly haue yeelded if at that time the truth of this question being boulted out and made cleare had benne by a ful general Councel established In like manner he vrgeth the Pelagians saying August CoÌ„tra Iulianum .li. 3. cap. 1. Vestra verò apud competens Iudicium communiuÌ„ episcoporum causa modò finita est Nec amplius vobiscuÌ„ agenduÌ„ est quantuÌ„ ad ius examinis pertinet nisi vt prolataÌ„ de hac re sententiaÌ„ cuÌ„ pace sequamini Quòd si nolueritis a turbulenta vel seditiosa inquietudine cohibeamini Your matter is now ended by sufficient iudgemeÌ„t of Bishops from al partes Neither ought we now to haue further dealing with you as touching right of examination to be made but now it behoueth that yâ— folowe peacebly the verdite whiche hath 〈◊〉 pronounced of this matter And if ye wil not yet that ye be restrained from al troblesome and seditious disorder August Epist 118. ad Ianuarium Last of al speaking of General Councelles he saith Quorum est in Ecclesia saluberrima authoritas their Authoritie in the Churche is most holsome And bicause M. Iewel findeth him selfe agreeued witâ— the later Councelles and is offended with the newnesse of them and claimeth by former Councels and preteÌ„deth to folow the Apostles owne Traditions let vs see what S. Augustine of whom he would so faine borow helpe if it would be wil saie for him Whereas the Donatistes for their rebaptizing of such as the Catholiques had baptized alleged th' Apostles Tradition and neglected a late General CouÌ„cel assembled against their opinion holding vpon a more auncient Tradition euen such as came from the Apostles to them in this case S. Augustine saith thus Nec quisquam dicat August li. 4. cap. 7. de Baptis coÌ„tra Donatistas quod accepimus ab Apostolis hoc sequimur Quatò robustiuo nuÌ„c dicimus Quod ecclesiae coÌ„suetudo semper tenuit quod haec disputatio dissuadere noÌ„ potuit et quod plenariuÌ„ Concilium coÌ„firmauit hoc sequimur Neither let any man saie as the Donatistes said and as Protestantes now saie we folowe that which we haue
receiued of the Apostles Howe muche more stronger is that we saie now we folowe that which the Custome of the Church hath euermore holden whiche al this reasoning to and fro hath not ben able to plucke out of mens hartes and last of al which a ful General Councel hath confirmed So highly esteemed S. Augustine those things August li. 2. de Baptisme cap. 9. which M. Iewel of al other maketh lest accompt of And againe he saieth Concilia posteriora prioribus apud posterâ—s praepâ—nuntur Later CouÌ„cels preferred before the former for what cause The posteritie preferreth the Later Councelles before the Former Not as though the later should be contrarie to the former but bicause in the later CouÌ„cels the Church is alwaies better instructed through the contradictions of heretikes by occasion whereof matters are more exactely searched discussed and more clearely opened Like as the flint stoanes being knokte harde together fier flieth out and corne the more ye fifte it the purer it is tried so truthe by our aduersaries Contradictions is beaten out and doubteful pointes by long discussion and search are made plaine and cleare Therefore againe he saith Ibidem .li. 2. cap. 3. Ipsa plenaria Concilia saepe priora posterioribus emendantur cúm aliquo experimento rerum aperitur quod clausum erat cognoscitur quod latebat The very former general Councells are oftentimes corrected by the later Councells when as by some trial of maâ—â—er that thing is opened whiche before was close shut vp and that is knowen whiche before laie hid Yeâ— and this is the chiefe and best fruite The benefit and fruite of heresies August in Psal 54. super versum Diuisi sunt prae ira c. that heresies bring vnto the Churche as the same S. Augustine otherwhere declareth where he saith The matter of the blessed Trinitie was neuer wel discussed vntil the Arianâ— barked against it The Sacrament of Penaunce was neuer throughly handled vntil the Nouatians beganne to withstande it Neither the cause of Baptisme was wel discussed vntil the rebaptizing Donatistes arose and troubled the Churche Thus M. Iewel if you geue eare vnto S. Augustine whose example you seeme to claime by you shal learne of him not to refuse and renounce the authoritie of General Councels but to obey them and to yeeld dew reuerence vnto them yea though they be later and as you cal them new Truth draue M. Iewel to iustifie al our Doctrine wherein he dissenteth from vs. The 21. Chap. This oddes therefore remaineth betwen you and vs that our doctrine yea euery pointe thereof in cotrouersie now is by your owne confession approued by the later General Councelles and so we defende no doctrine of our owne nor mainteine any prophane Nouelties of our owne deuise but we folowe Saluberrimam authoritatem the most holesome and sounde authoritie as S. Augustine termeth it of General Councels that is to saie we folowe the voice of the whole bodie of Christes Churche most truely represented in Councelles the voice of Christes spouse yea the voice of Christe him selfe speaking to vs by his Churche and so speaking that he willeth him whiche heareth not the Churche to be accompted for a Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publicane Contrariewise your Doctrine M. Iewel is not only not authorized in General Councelles but also is clearely condemned by the same as for example that one maie serue in steede of many the General Councel of Laterane condemneth your Sacramentarie heresie Yet we thanke not you but the truthe that you haue this muche confessed for vs. And as S. Augustine said of the Donatistes so we saie most truely of you Vt illa omnia vel loquendo vel legendo pro causa nostra promerent atque propalarent Aug. contra Donatist post collat ca. 34. veritas eos torsit non charitas inuitauit That the Donatistes shoulde vtter and bring forthe either by talke or by allegation out of a booke al those thinges for behoofe of our matter the truth forced them it was not any charitie that inuited them The truthe I saie M. Iewel not any loue you beare to our cause forced you to confesse that there is none of our errours so you terme sundry weightie pointes of the Catholike Faith that by some of the late Councelles hath not benne confirmed We take that you geue vs right gladly in asmuch as it declareth you to be conuinced by witnesse of your owne mouthe For if the pointes of Faith and Religion wherein ye dissent from vs be approued and confirmed by authoritie of the Churche in General Councelles who seeth not what a good staffe we haue to leane vnto And who is that Christian man whiche wil not humbly beleue the same The Thirde Booke conteineth a Detection of certaine Lies Cauilles Sclaunders c. vttered by M. Iewel in the second parte of his pretensed Defence Iewel Pag. 88. VVhere ye fantasie that the Bodie of Christe in the Sacramente hath in it selfe neither Fourme nor Proportion nor Limitation of place nor Distinction of partes S. Augustine telleth you Spatia locorum tolle c. Take awaie from Bodies Limitation of place and the Bodies wil be no where Augu. ad DardanuÌ„ epist 57. And bicause they be nowhere they wil be nothing Take awaie from Bodies the qualities of Bodies there wil be no place for them to be in and therefore the same Bodies muste needes be no Bodies at al. Hereof vve maie conclude that the Bodie of Christe vvhich you haue imagined to be contiened grosly and carnally in the Sacrament for as much as by your ovvne confession it hath neither Qualitie nor Quantitie nor Fourme nor place nor proportiâ—â— of Bodie therefore by S. Augustines doctrine it is no Bodie Harding Answer to the Obiection made out of S. Augustine to Dardanus against the real presence of Christes Bodie in the Blessed Sacrament The. 1. Chapt. THE great confidence you haue in S. Augustines two sayinges in his 57. Epistle to Dardanus may much better serue your turne to skirmish with Brentius a Master of youres Brentius the autor of the heresie of the Vbi quetaries and a graund Captaine emong the Lutherans who spareth not by publique write to teache the world that Christes Humanitie is euerie where as his Diuinitie is then against the Catholique doctrine of Christes Bodily presence in the Blessed Sacrament wherein no suche errour is allowed that Christes humanitie should be euery where with his Godhead but it is auouched that Christe by his omnipotent power doth make his Bodie present in as many places as the Blessed Sacrament is duely Natural qualities suspeÌ„ded from Bodies by Goddes special povver Exod. 3. Daniel 3. Exod. 14. and rightly consecrated You are not ignorant M. Iewel but that you know that God by his special power hath suspended from diuers sortes of Bodies sundrie natural Qualities as he did suspende the action of burning from the Fire as wel in the
the reprehension of my vehement speache doo fal into the selfe same Vehemencie Whose wordes are these M. Iewel M. Ievv blameth my vehemencie of speache him selfe being also no lesse vehement Pag. 94. Beholde your owne wordes so many so vaine so bitter so firie so furious al together in one place Are not these your owne wordes Are not these as vehemeÌ„t as you could deuise Wil you finde faulte with me for that you vse your selfe If vehement speache be to be vsed when the matter requireth why blame you me If not why doo you so often vse it Whether you and Luther doo vse it iustly for the zeale of Goddes glorie aske that of them that wrote the Confession of the Churche of Zurich Your owne frendes the Ministers of that congregation doo set forth Luther for his outragious and filthy railing against them in his colours and speake of him as of a very vile felow and paie him home againe with as good as he brought Reade the booke and ye shal finde it to be true Howbeit I could sende you to many other bookes of your brethren fraught with muche more vile stuffe of railing then that litle booke conteineth with al whiche you are better acquainted then I am The Confutation of the Apologie The seconde parte the 2. Chapter Confut fo 44. b Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe aâ— other waie bicause Christe is head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie Menne be called heades in as muche as they be in steede of Christ and vnder Christ after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians for if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it 2. Cor. 2. for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe And in an other place 2. Cor. 5. We are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in few 〈◊〉 vvhat sense Christe is named the Head of the Churche and in vvhat sense the Pope is so named according to inwarde influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is the head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christ and in steede of Christ is head of the same Iewel Pag. 94. To the matter ye saie that touching the influence of grace Christe onely is the head of the Churche but touching direction and gouernemeÌ„t the Pope only as the head Al this is but your ovvne tale M. Harding ye speake it onely of your selfe other authoritie of Scripture or Doctour you bringe vs none Harding Dogge eloquence proued no vnwoonted terme and how the Pope is Head of the Churche To the mater ye saie And truly wel said of you The .7 Chapt For hitherto you haue not directed your talke to the mater but to the person of your Aduersarie with whom you shew your selfe greuously offended for calling the Currish and snarling vtterance of Luther Dogge eloquence And whereas you would faine draw the same to the preiudice of my modestie I trust you that are so great a Rhetorician and so wel seene in poetes Fables wil iudge so muche the better of me for so muche as Quintilian that modeste and graue Oratour and Ouide also no Poete Satyrical thought suche phrase of speache not vnmeete for the countenance of modestie and humanitie that they bare in the worlde For if you remember Canina Eloquentia QuintiliaÌ„ lib. 12. c. 9 Ouid. in Ibin is Quintilians worde calle it dogge eloquence dogged eloqueÌ„ce or dogges eloquence or how soeuer otherwise it please you to terme it And Ouid saith Latrâ—◠〈◊〉 in toro verba canina foro If for the vse of this auncient terme I seeme to passe the boundes of modestie specially attributing it vnto Luther whose heretical and Deuilish vtterance is coÌ„monly in deede farre worse then the barking of any Dogge or the hissing of any Serpent what wil you saie of the Scolding of your hote brother M. Calfhil But now that after muche idle and impertinent talke you are come to the mater what saie you that is worth the hearing M. Iewels foule falsifying of my vvordes Thus you saie Ye saie that touching the influence of Grace Christe onely is the Head of the Churche I graunt I say so in deede Go ye forth and make no lye but touching direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Yea sir Where saie I so You should haue caused your printer to haue falsified that senteÌ„ce of mine that at your owne pleasure the simplest of your owne poore Fauourers who take al for the Gospel that you saie or write might not in your owne booke espie your shamelesse lying For euen there notwithstanding your coÌ„mon falsifyinges other where 's and also there they maie finde my saying otherwise reported It is an euident argument that myne owne wordes were to true for you to confute sith that you thought it necessarie least you should seme ouercome to alter and change them for other wordes of your own which being false to the vnlearned reader I might seeme to speake fondly and besides al truth For how is it likely I should saie that touching Direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Your fetche was to bring your vnlearned fauourers by whom you are magnified to beleeue that from the Direction and gouernement of the Church I excluded Christe and the holy Ghoste the spirite of truth Which God forbid I should doo Now the true wordes of my Confutation in this place are these Defence Pag. 92. whiche the Reader maie see also in the booke of your Defence although very much mangled and falsified of set purpose to thintent the force of truth by me opened should not be seene as by view of my booke it maie clearely appeare Where thus I saie For Head and Spouse alone he is of his kingdom in one respecte not alone in an other respect * Confut. fol. 44. a. left out by M. Ie. For a cleare declaration whereof it is to be vnderstanded that being of a Head maie be considered after two waies The being of a Head considered tvvo vvaies either according to the inward influence so as the vertue and power of mouing and of sense is deriued from the head vnto the other members or according to outward gouernment right so as a man is directed in his outward actes according to the sight and other senses AccordiÌ„g to it ward influence of grace Christe onely is Head of the Churche In respect of outvvard gouernement the name of Head is attributed to others beside Christe which haue their roote in the head Now the inwarde influence of grace is not of any other but of Christe only Bicause Christes manhood onely hath power to iustifie for that the same only is ioyned personally to the Godhead * According to this inward influence of Grace Christ properly and only is Head of his mystical body the Church But as touching
is in heauen Out of this Scripture if your good wil and cunning would serue you ye maie see an argument plainely made from Angelles to menne Likewise from God to the Pope Petre amas me Pasce oues meas Peter louest thou me Iohan. 21. Feede or rule my sheepe If your cunning can not compasse suche Argumentes M. Iewel that are vsed in Scriptures from heauen to earth from Angelles to menne from God to the Pope yet it were good for you to leaue skoffing at suche argumentes as are vsed in the very Scriptures Iewel Pag. 100. But hovv knovveth M. Harding vvhat Orders of Angelles and Archangelles there be in heauen VVhat they doo Hovv they deale c. Harding Of Angelles to what purpose Osee was alleged of the Head inuisible and visible Forsooth I maie easily know that The 14. Chapt. whiche is euidently reueled in the Scripture yea so euidently that yoâ—â— ignorance must seeme to grosse to aske any suche question Of the Angelles That there be orders of Angelles it appeareth boâ—â— in diuers other places and specially by the fourth Chapter of S. Matthew where we finde that the Angellâ—s waite on Christe Matth 4. Beholde saith the Euangeliste the Angelles came and ministred vnto him You might haue founde mention of many thousandes of Angelles in the 12. Hebre. 12. Chapter to the Hebrewes There is mention also made of diuers Orders of Angelles in the epistle to the Colossians Coloss 1. Siue throni sine Dominationes siue Principatus siue Potestates omnia per ipsum in ipso creata sunt Ephes 3. 4. Archangelles 1. Thess 4. The like is to be seene in the epistle to the Ephesians Of Archangelles we reade in the epistle to the Thessalonians that our Lord shal come downe in the voice and in the commaundement or shoute of the Archangel and in the trompe of God In S. Luke we reade that there is more ioie in heauen before the Angelles for one sinner doing penaunce Luc. 15. then there is for 99. iust menne that neede no penaunce In the epistle to the Hebrewes we read that al the Angelles doo honour Christe Hebre. 1. and that al Angelles are spirites to doo seruice sent into seruice for them that doo receiue the inheritance of saluation Dionysius de Coelesti Hierarch cap. 6. Tobia 3. S. Dionyse the Areopagite speaketh of nine Orders of Angelles The Scripture in sundry places telleth vs that the Angelles doo offer vp the praiers of the faithful before God This we knowe of Angelles in heauen that they obey one God that they are spirites so confirmed in grace that now they can not sinne that they are ready to doo Goddes commaundement at al times that there are Orders emong them as there shal be emong them whiche shal be saued emong vs some placed in greater glorie then some others as S. Paule declareth by the diuersitie of Starres 1. Cor. 15. that are not al of one brightnesse We knowe that they being Spirites confirmed in grace hauing no motions at al to doo any thing contrarie to Gods wil neede no Pope to correct to pounish to excommunicate to depriue to depose them and to assoile them This muche we knowe concerning the Angelles and this might you M. Iewel also haue knowen And this confession if occasion so required would better haue becomme you then your skoffes fitter for a common Table Ieaster then for a man who professeth to teache others the duetie of life and truthe of beleefe To S. Dionysius M. Ievvel commoÌ„ly argueth negatiuely from autorities that wrote purposely of the gouernment of the Churche and made no mention of one Pope whiche you obiecte we saie that we holde him for vnskilful in his Logique who deduceth Argumentes negatiuely from any Fathers authoritie as for example That Father or this Father spake not of the proceding of the holy Ghost from the Father and the Sonne Ergo there is no suche thing Yet it had benne more for your commendation to haue argued from Heauen to earth from Angelles to menne from God to the Pope then so sottelike to reason against al good order of learning from Authorities negatiuely Howbeit in dede the manner of your reasoning is not from God to the Pope from Angelles to menne from Heauen to earth â–ª but from truth to errour from Religion to Hugonotrie from Christianitie to Paganisme from good to naught from Christe to Antichriste from God to Satan whiche manner of argumentes is not very holesome The Obiection of the name of Iosue mistaken for Osee You make muche a doo for that I mistake the naâ—â— of Iosue for Osee To mistake one mannes name for an other as long as there is no preiudice thereby made to the necessary doctrine of our Faith and the place truely alleged althoughe the name were mistaken it is but humaine errour In that I named Iosue for Osee I acknowledge myne errour and wishe you would doâ— the like when you erre and then ye should cal in againe al that you haue written hitherto wherein you should doo wel in wise mennes Iudgement and most safely for the wealth of your owne soule But to traine the people from truth to heresie and stubbornly therein to continew as you doo M. Iewel and where no other shifte wil serue you there to assaie whether you can skoffe out the truthe this is not humaine errour but a Deuilish practise Osee to vvhat purpose alleged The place of Osee was alleged for no other purpose but to shew that God doth vs to vnderstand that his Churche militant is then in most perfite state and in best order when al true beleeuers bothe conuerted Iewes and Gentiles doo obey one Head Now then if in the Gouernment of one Head consiste the best Order and state that can be planted in the Church though it be true Christe one and only head Inuisible that our Sauiour Christ be that one Inuisible Head as I neuer denied but that he is yet that the Visible Churche atteine vnto that perfite Order and state whiche the Prophete Osee commendeth for the best Head Visible it behoueth that it haue one Visible general Head that shal keepe and mainteine visible and external Order emong al the faithful This is the force of my drifte Neither for al that did I denie Iohan. 10. but that Christe is that one Head that Christe is that one Shepeheard that S. Iohn spake of whiche I doo openly confesse in my Confutation of the Apologie in the selfe same place where I allege the saying of the Prophete Osee and the saying of Christe out of S. Ihon. So that you needed not to allege al that out of S. Hierome Nicolaus Lyra and S. Augustine to proue that which I confessed before M. Ievvels coÌ„moÌ„ maÌ„ner in al his vvritiÌ„ges But this is your manner alwaies M. Iewel to shewe your copie in matters vndoubted and impertinent and when ye come
Father euer thus scanned the vvordes of the popes commission Or vvhy doth M. Harding auouche so great a matter of him selfe onely vvithout farther Authoritite c. Harding Feede my Sheepe are wordes of Peters commission to gouerne the Churche and the same is proued by the Fathers You tel my tale in suche wise The .17 Chapt. as you maie best make the matter seeme weake and sclender First I thinke good here to set before the reader who is now made iudge of this controuersie myne owne wordes as I vttered them my selfe Then I shal the better frame my Answer to that you obiecte Thus I saie Where these Defenders â—onfâ—t fol. 46. a. as others the Aduersaries of this vnitie saie that Christe is this one shepheard this one Head who is so Christe is the principal Head and of him selfe the Pope is the Ministerial Head and vnder Christ aÌ„d for Christ Math. 28. 1. Pet. 2. A man is necessarie to doo Christes steede of outward gouernment in in the Churche The necessitie and institution of the Head of the Churche Genes 32. Num. 12. we denie not Shepeheard of his flockâ— Head of his body Bridegrome of his spouse Prince of hiâ— kingdome as it is before declared yet saie they therein nothing to the disproufe of the catholique doctrine touching vnitie of the Head which is in steed and ministerie of Christ For whereas the Father hath geuen to Christ al power in heaueÌ„ and earth so as he only is the King Head ruler Iudge of al the Pastour and Bishop of our soules and therefore they whiche we acknowledge to be Kinges Headdes Rulers iudges Pastours and Bishoppes in earth be his Vicares Lieuetenantes Vicegerentes and Ministers al this power by what name so euer it be called being suche as is exercised and administred by his worde neede it is that for asmuche as Christe now dwelleth not with vs in visible presence his Churche haue one man to doo his steede of outwarde ruling in earth by his worde to administer al that is behooful and to performe the duetie of the head in respecte of the bodie Now that Christe is not conuersant with vs visibly as he was with his Disciples before his passion and preacheth no more vnto vs with his owne mouth sensibly to atteine the vnderstanding of his wil we maie not looke to haue God appeare vnto vs as he did vnto the Fathers of the olde Testament to speake to vs as he did to Moyses face to face mouth to mouth as the Scripture saith to sende vs his Angel as he did to the Virgine Marie to instruct vs with visions from Heauen Luc. 1. Actâ— 10. 2. Cor. 12. as he instructed Peter to take vs vp into the thirde heauen as he tooke Paule there to heare the secretes of his wil but it behoueth vs to be content for the working of that whiche remaineth to be done touching our Saluation with suche order as hath pleased him For it is manifest that Christe perfiteth al the Sacramentes of the Churche He it is that baptizeth he it is that forgeueth sinnes he is the true priest that hath offered him selfe on the Crosse and by whose power his body is daily consecrated and offered on the Aulter Yet bicause he would not remaine in visible presence with al beleeuers he chose menne to be his Ministers by whom the forsaid thinges should be done and ministred to them By like reason forasmuch as he would take froÌ„ the Churche his corporal and visible presence it behoued some one man to be put in CommissioÌ„ for bearing the charge and taking care of the Churche in lieu and steede of him selfe For this purpose before his AscensioÌ„ he said to Peter whose loue he had tried and found to be most feruent aboue al others feede my shepe and before his Passion Thou being againe coÌ„uerted strengthen thy brethren Iohan. 2â— Luc. 22. Math. 16. And to him specially he said by promise To thee wil I geue the keies of the kingdome of heauen thereby to shewe that the power of the keies should be deriued to others by him for the better keping of the vnitie of the Churche Now let it be iudged with what substantial learning you haue coÌ„futed this doctrine If it had not ben sounde and such as clearely openeth what we meane The former vvordes of my Confutation lefte out of M. Ievvelleâ— Defence when we cal the Pope the chiefe Pastour and supreme Gouernour of Christes Flocke doubtelesse you would not haue leafte it out of your booke For you making a shewe as though you had printed my whole booke againe and so confuted it take onely that pleaseth you and leaue out what seemeth to hard for you to answere mangling disordering and confounding my whole treatie to thinâ—â—â—â— it may beare the lesse face of learning and of good proufâ— of the thinges I intreate of which is a foule practise nâ—uer vsed by any lerned man hitherto And yet you would men to beleeue you deale truly and plainely in laying foorth my Confutation Yet here hauing nothing to saie elles least you should seeme to geue ouer you demaund of me what auncient Father euer thus skanned the woordes of the Popes Commission or why I haue auouched so great a matter of my selfe without farther authoritie Thus when I bring Fathers you cal for Scripture when I allege Scripture M. Iewels vvaie to continue vvrangling Iohan. 21 you aske what auncient Father euer vnderstode it so or why I dare so handle the Scripture so ye wil be sure not to lacke mater of wrangling what so euer I saie Yet thus I answer It is no hard peece of worke to proue by sufficient authoritie that these wordes Pasce oues meas feede my sheepe spoken to Peter and in him to his successours In Math. Homil. 55 in Iohan Homil 87. Grego lib. 4. epi. 32. Pascere gaue Peter and his successours Authoritie gâ—neral to gouerne the whole Churche S. Chysostome treating vpon these wordes saith as it is before alleged that the charge to rule the whole worlde was geuen to Peter and coÌ„sequently to his successours S. Gregorie saith the same as is before rehersed Pascere is not a word that signifieth to feede only as you know but also to rule and gouerne and therefore Homere calleth King Agamemnon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Pastor that is to say the ruler of the people And that it may appeare that I auouche not this matter and applie the place of S. Iohns Gospel to it of my selfe onely without farder Authoritie as you say it may please you to heare S. Ambrose teaching the same and in manner with the same woordes that I vsed writing vpon the .24 Chapter of S. Luke thus he saieth Ambro in cap. 24. Lucae Iohan. 21. Dominus interrogabat non vt disceret sed vt doceret quem eleuandus in coelum amoris sui nobis velut Vicarium relinquebat Sic enim habes Simon Ioannis diligis
Al are committed to thee the one whole flocke to one Neither art thou onely the Pastour of al the sheepe but also the onely Pastour of al the Pastours Demaundest thou of me howe I prooue it Forsooth out of the woorde of God Ioan. 21. For I praie you to whom I wil not saie of the Bisshoppes but also of the Apostles were al the sheepe so absolutely and indeterminately committed If thou loue me Peter feede my sheepe whiche sheepe The people of this or of that citie of this or of that countrie or kingdome My sheepe quod he Who now doth not euidently see that Christe did not appointe him certaine but assigned him al Where no distinction is made there nothing is excepted Thus you see how litle cause you had to saie why doth M. Harding auouche so great a matter of him selfe onely without farther authoritie Iewel Pag. 103. And if this so large Commission be to Feede and feede so many vvhy then doth the Pope feede so litle Harding The Pope feedeth and why Christe appointed him to be his Vicare The stubbornesse of Heretiques is a lette The .18 Chapt. that his diligent feeding can not take place in many Howe manie Articles of the Christian Doctrine had the peruersitie of Heretiques wrapped vp in a Confusion and brought in doubte that fewe menne knewe howe to vnfolde them The Popes diligent feeding hath so by General Councelles through his authoritie and care assembled vnfolded and disclosed all the false craftes and sleightes of Heretiques that nowe euery man that wil maie haue in a readinesse by perusing the Canons of the Councelles what Doctrine is true and holesome what is false and heretical Of late yeares he emploied his diligence in calling all The Pope feedeth but some refuse his good foode and feede of Poison the Protestantes vnto the Councel of Trent he gaue them safe Conductes to come and departe without danger of their personnes and there during the time of their abode to propone argue and dispute of the pointes in cōtrouersie with al freedome VVhy the Ministers of England vvēt not to the General Councel at Trent most liberal and free Safe cōductes being graunted them But ye of England knowing your owne weaknesse and that ye were not so wel hable to prooue your doctrine in learned Assemblies as ye were with boasting Chalenges and bolde talkes to prate it out of pulpites emong the ignorant at home least with shame ye should there haue ben put to silence and prooued vnlearned wylily absented your selues Notwithstanding libertie was geuen you to come and saie for your Gospel what ye could and as it appeareth in the Actes of the same to frame your safe Conducte if ye desliked the fourme set foorth in the Councel in as ample manner for your owne safegarde and benefite as ye could deuise Iewel Pag. 103. Againe vvhere learned M. Harding to reason thus Christe is ascended into heauen Ergo the Pope is head of the vvhole vvorlde Harding Nay where learned M. Iewel to fashon suche peeuish argumentes of his owne deuise and fathering them vpon his Aduersarie to scoffe at them as if they were of his Aduersaries making If this Argument be naught let him amend it that framed it If it be ridiculous the Reader may see what a ridiculous head he hath that brought it forth My reason dependeth in this sorte If it had pleased Christ to haue remained here visibly emong vs alwaies and to haue taken continual order him selfe for the external gouernment of the Churche we should not haue needed any other general head but Christe him selfe who had ben sufficient But for asmuch as Christes bodily and visible presence through his Ascension was for good purposes taken awaie from vs that we might haue better occasion to exercise faith and the holy Sacramentes it was needeful that in his steede he should leaue some one General Vicegerent In. 24. caput Luca. and Vicare of his loue as S. Ambrose termeth him that should haue ful authoritie to rule the whole Churche The partes of this reason are wel linked together both by diuinitie and also by logique As M. Iewel hath framed it it serueth for nothing but to make sporte emong Prentises I allege not Christes Ascension for the ful and sufficient cause of hauing one general Head as M. Iewel would beare menne in hande if any be so simple to beleeue him The cause vvhy Christe hath placed his Vicare here in his stede Ambros in 24. cap. Lucae but as the occasion why he should place an other in the absence of his Visible person in his steede The necessitie of the Churche that disorder and confusion be auoided and that vnitie be kepte considered together with the great loue that Christe hath to the Churche is the ful cause why Christe placed in his steede a general Vicegerent Vicarium amoris sui the vicare of his loue as S. Ambrose calleth him Iewel Ibidem But ye saie God speaketh not novv vnto vs mouth to mouth c. Harding What rule is like to be if the Scripture be made ruler and gouernour Your drifte is in this place The. 19. Chapt. to put the whole gouernment of the Church quite from the Pope whom Chrysostome as I haue tolde you before taketh to be the vniuersal Head bicause he is S. Peters Successour and to driue vs to deliuer the whole rule vnto the Scripture and that being remoued quite from any one certaine sense and leafte to mennes Phantasies to descant vpon it What vnitie and good Order wil folowe thereof they of Germanie ye of England the Lutherans the Zuinglians the Caluinistes the Osiandrines the Zuencfeldians the Anabaptistes the new Puritanes that now spring vp so freshly and other sectes wherewith the worlde swarmeth haue tolde vs already the whiche could neuer yet come to any good vnitie and common agreement Ye leaue vs also an other sorte of gouernours Apostles Ephes 4. Prophetes Euangelistes Pastours and Doctours of whom S. Paule speaketh If these be the Gouernours appointed by holy Scripture how falleth it out that ye contrary to Scripture haue geuen the supreme gouernment of your Church of England to laye Princes some being vnder their nources gouernance some being women The cas◠thus standing if the Ministers agree not in doctrine hovv shal vnitie be made and the people kepte vnpoisoned If these forenamed the Apostles c. be the right gouernours how happeth it that they can doo nothing concerning Order to be taken for the Churche but by authoritie deriued from a mere laie power If these that is to saie the successours of the Apostles Prophetes c. be the right gouernours what if any of these iarre and fal at square emong them selues as it hath oftentimes ben seene either within the compasse of one Realme or in diuers Realmes and doo poison the people with sundry Heresies to whom shal we resorte to haue them called home and reduced vnto order whom haue
you least vs in this case as Iudge and supreme Gouernour to ende al Dissensions and to condemne perilous Heresies They of Germanie take them selues to be as good menne and to knowe the Truth as wel if no better as either D. Parker of Canturburie or M. Grindal of London or Bacheler Yonge of Yorke or any of the other wiued Priestes Monkes and Friers yea as M Iew. of Sarisburie him selfe Ye of England wil not yelde to them of Saxonie they of Lifeland Swethen Denmarke Pole Scotland Zuitzerland and Geneua wil not yelde them selues subiectes to either of you both And yet euery one of these sundry congregations wil preach stil the doctrine of their owne secte one coÌ„trarie to an other How now M. Iewel Let vs heare what wise tale you caÌ„ tel vs by whose authoritie we maie come from these great Dissensions and manifold Schismes to Vnitie Intreatie can not doo it Colloquies meetinges and Conferences of the learned of eche secte can not bring it to passe The more it hath ben attempted the worse ende hath euer benne concluded Haue not you leaft vs then a beautiful Church a blessed coÌ„panie of Ministers that wil not come to Order Yea leauing vs without any lawful authoritie of one Head to reduce vs to vnitie do you not leaue vs in endlesse strifes and indeterminable broilles Be we not much bound vnto you Were not the worlde wise and wel aduised to forsake al old orders and to put coÌ„fidence in this your new deuise The same selfe S. Chrysostome whom you allege to haue al ruled by the Scriptures sawe a litle farther then you see M. Iewel when he said that the charge of the whole worlde was committed to Peter Chrysost in Matth. Homil. 55. Ambros in cap. 24. Luca. Theodoritus in Epist ad Renatum Cyprianus lib. 3. Epist 13. So did S. Ambrose when he named Peter and by a consequent Peters Successour the Vicare of Christes loue So did Theodoritâ—â— when he said the See of Rome holdeth the sterne and hath the gouernment of the Churches of the whole worlde You allege S. Cyprian though farre otherwise then he writeth and that out of that epistle in whiche he willeth Stephanus the Pope to depose Martianus the Bishop of Arles in Fraunce for Heresie and put an other in his roome whiche argueth a supreme authoritie of gouernment in the Pope you allege him I saie as if he said that therefore there are many Bishoppes in the Churche that if one fal into heresie the rest maie helpe But what if there be as many Heretique Bishoppes as there be Catholique as it hath commonly benne seene in the East Churche What if the Heretiques being more learned wil not yeelde Cyprian ad Cornelium lib. 1. Epist. 3. S. Cyprian in an other place spareth not to tel you that Schismes aÌ„d heresies rise of no other cause then for that the whole brotherhed that is to saie the companie of Christian people Obeye not one high Prieste that is in Christes steede Whiche saying by what reason it taketh place in euery seueral Dioces by the same it is to be vnderstanded in respecte of the whole worlde For as Heresies rise of disobedience of the people to their Bishop so they rise no lesse yea rather muche more as experience teacheth of the disobedience of the Bishoppes them selues if they wil not be vnder one Head And as the people are not kepte in vnitie but by being vnder one Bishop so neither the Bishoppes excepte they be likewise vnder one chiefe Head and ruler who is the Successour of Peter to whom as louing Christe more then the reste whiche the Scripture sheweth the charge not onely of the lambes and weaker sheepe but also of the great and stronger sheepe was committed as S. Ambrose before alleged hath wel noted Whether S. Peter were faulte worthy when S. Paule reproued him as you tel vs without proufe Defence pag. 103. it remaineth in question betwixte S. Augustine and S. Hierome But if there were any thing worthy of reprehension in S. Peter that S. Paule sawe there was great humilitie in S. Peter to agnise the faulte by the warning of his inferiour Likewise there was in S. Victor the Pope in that he would geue eare vnto S. Ireneus Of that S. Peters humilitie thus speaketh S. Cyprian in his epistle to Quintus whiche is also rehearsed of S Augustine August li. 2. de Baptis cont Donatist cap. 1. Nam nec Petrus quem primum Dominus elegit super quem aedificauit Ecclesiam suam cùm secum Paulus de Circumcisione disceptaret postmodum vendicauit sibi aliquid insolenter aut arroganter assumpsit vt diceret se primatum tenere obtemperari à nouellis posteris sibi potius debere Example of humilitie to S. Peter For neither Peter whom our Lorde chose to be first and vppon whom he builded his Churche at what time Paule reasoned with him about Circumcision by and by chalenged any thing proudly vnto him selfe or stately tooke ought vpon him as to saie that he helde the Primacie or the chiefe rule ouer al and that suche as came newly to the Faith and were his aftercommers ought rather to obeie him But this kinde of humilitie is not found emong Heretiques The more courteously they be warned of their Heresie the more stubborne they growe and staie not so but doo the vttermost they can to make their parties as good as the Catholiques as by sundry olde heretiques to them that haue reade the Trâ—gedies by them plaied in the Churche is most euident How now M. Iewel What remedie Shal we resorte in this case to any Head that hath General authoritie or stand stil iarring and snarling the one at the other without alremedie For ought I see you are like to leaue vs stil in the briers Touching your gloses of the Canon Lawe they maie perhappes one daie if it shal be thought worth the labour be altogether answered in some one seueral treatise where doubtelesse it shal appeare to your smal estimation with what beggerly ragges and clowtes you haue patched together your clowted cloke Iewel Pag. 104. For the rest M. Harding saith One King is hable to rule one Kingdome Ergo one Pope is hable to rule the vvhole Churche Harding My talke runneth not so bare as you rehearse it your grace is alwaie to reporte worse then you finde I said that a King or Queene in gouerning a Realme ruleth not al in his owne person but doth many thinges by his Deputees and Officers Euen so why maie not the Pope in al Christendome take order by other fitte menne hauing from him commission notwithstanding his person be not present For very shame M. Iewel make not your Aduersaries tale worse then you finde it For by that you must muche discredite your cause Iewel Pag. 104. Of the gouernment of Princes vve haue daielie practise But of Popes that euer vsed this vniuersal Dominion ouer the vvhole Church of
said before Iewel Pag. 111. S. Hilarie and other learned Bishoppes of Fraunce for vsurping suche vnlavvful auctoritie charged this same Pope Leo of vvhom vve speake vvith Pride and ambition Harding What a man this Hilarie was and how vnworthy to be called S. Hilarie The 32. Chapt. An â—â—pudent and craâ—ty lye This is bothe an impudent and also a crafty lye Impudent as being suche wherein M. Iewel him selfe knewe he lyed For al is vtterly false For neither this Bishop Hilarie as euil a man as he was nor any other Bishoppes of Fraunce for ought that M. Iewel hath to shewe charged Leo with pride and ambition for vsurping vnlawful autoritie Leo epist 89 ad Episcopos prouincia Viennen In deede he is reported of Leo to haue spoken arrogant wordes against the reuerence of S. Peter But what the wordes were or that he laid pride and ambition to Pope Leos charge M. Iewel hath nothing to allege Muche lesse can he proue it of the other learned Bishoppes of Fraunce Leo contrariwise hauing hearde the complaintes of the great disorder and outrage of this Bishop Hilarie charged him with a strange pride and immoderate ambition for vsurping vndew autoritie For as it is cleare by that epistle of Leo wherein this mater is laid forth this Hilarie tooke vpon him to exercise the Iurisdiction of the Metropolitanes chalenging vnto him selfe the ordinations and making of Bishoppes of al the Churches in Fraunce He vniustly depriued Celidonius of his Bishoprike He besides al right and reason deposed Protectus lying sicke in his bed and set an other bishop in his roome whereby he seemed besides the breache of the Canons to haue don very cruelly and to haue sought the shortening of his life He rode vp and downe in the Countrie of Fraunce as the people complained of him like a light person much vnlike a Bishop and ranne from place to place with a companie of armed Souldiers to be the better hable to put his vnlawful attemptes in execution if any resistance should haue benne made Al this notwithstanding M. Iewel calleth him S. Hilarie wherein he vseth crafte S. Hilarie a vvicked man saincted by M. Ievvel bicause he despised the Pope for which this maie be wel called a crafty lie For who is there specially of the vnlearned that hearing the name of S. Hilarie would not thinke that famous Father and learned Doctour S. Hilarie the Bishop of Poitiers to be meant For none beareth that famous name of S. Hilarie but he Thus can M. Iewel to helpe forth his Gospel abuse the name of Gods Saints and make a Rebel a proude an arrogant and ambitious vsurper of other mennes right a Saint Of suche Saintes they haue Canonizate vs good stoare Thus he would gete credite to his doctrine that impugneth vnitie vnder the false colour of the name of a blessed Saint Wherefore good reader let not M. Iewel beguile thee with the name of S. Hilarie who as he died long before this Hilarie was borne so he was alwaies obedient to the see of Rome as who graunteth that S. Peter for the confession of the true faith deserued to haue Hilar. do Trinit li. 6 Vltra humanae infirmitatis modum supereminentem locuÌ„ a place of authoritie passing al other beyonde the measure of humaine infirmitie whereas this Hilarie that M. Iewel speaketh of was a violent vsurper of others right a seditious troubler of the vnitie of the Church and otherwise an il man and suche a one as against whose vniust and violent doinges the godly and discrete Citizens of certaine Cities in Fraunce directed their commoÌ„ lettres vnto Pope Leo to haue refourmation And thus is the forged matter of this Hilarie newe sainted by M. Iewel truly answered Ievvel Pag. 111. But gentle Reader that thou maist the better vnderstand vvhat credite thou oughtest to geue to this Pope Leo specially setting forth his ovvne authoritie I beseche thee consider vvith vvhat maiestie of vvordes and hovv farre aboue measure he auanceth the authoritie of S. Peter These be his vvordes Christus Petrum in confortium Indiuiduae vnitatis assumpsit Leo Epist 89. Leo Epist 52. Christ receiued Peter into the companie of the indiuisible vnitie Authoritate Domini mei Petri Apostoli by the Authoritie â—ot of Christ but of my Lorde Peter the Apostle Deo inspirante beatissimo Petro Apostolo By the inspiration of God and of S. Peter the Apostle c. Leo. 89. Harding These Phrases of Leo defended and iustified It is happy that once you haue mette with an olde Father within the first six hundred yeres The 33. Chapt. whose wordes are so plaine for the preeminence and supremacie of the See of Rome that you could not possibly finde any probable Glose to auoide them Being therefore destitute of a directe answer you goe about to finde faulte with the manner of vtterance that Leo vseth And here you are sore offended with the maiestie of wordes with which he extolleth the authoritie of S. Peter Whiche certainly be no other then maie be founde in diuers other auncient learned Fathers Touching the first sentence you should haue laid it forth truly as it is in the Doctour then would it appeare to conteine no such immoderate nor ambitious dignitie as you finde faulte withal The wordes of Leo are these Petrum in consortium indiuiduae vnitatis assumptum Leo epist 89. Matt. 16. id quod ipse erat voluit nominari dicendo Tu es Petrus super hanc Petram adificabo ecclesiam meam c. Christe willed Peter taken into the companie of his indiuisible vnitie to be named that thing which he was him selfe saying Thou arte Peter or Rocke and vpon this Rocke I wil builde my Church What is that wherewith a ChristiaÌ„ man should here be offended O say you Leo maketh Peter receiued into the coÌ„panie of the indiuisible vnitie I graunt M. Iewel But what indiuisible vnitie meaneth he First al vnitie is indiuisible For where there is a Diuision of a thing into two three or moe Peter receiued into in diuisible vnitie vvith Christ there is not vnitie but multiplicitie Now there is vnitie of Substance and vnitie of qualitie S. Peter is not reported of Leo to be assumpted into the felowship of vnitie of Substance or of nature with Christe the Sonne of God for so he should haue made him equal with God as Christ is for nothing is of one Substance or coÌ„substantial with God but that which is God Which God though he be three in Persons yet is one in Substance Into this indiuisible vnitie of Substance Peter is not receiued which ful deuilishly you would the Reader to conceiue and imagine to be the meaning of S. Leo in those wordes Into the coÌ„panie of the indiuisible vnitie of a qualitie or grace or name with Christ S. Peter was assumpted that is to saie Christ gaue him a qualitie a grace a name that is proper to him selfe What is
time being and also from S. Peter bicause doubtlesse the priuileges which Christe graunted to S. Peter for the health of the Church remaine stil to euery Bishop of Rome his lawful Successour And what so euer is decreed by the Successours of Peter sitting in Peters Chaire it ought to be vnto vs none other then a Decree of S. Peter him sefe For to vs he is Peter Therefore the learned Fathers of the Councel of Chalcedon hauing heard the famous Epistle that Pope Leo wrote to Flauianus against the Heresie of Eutyches Concil ChalcedoÌ„ Act. 3. allowing wel of it in their solenne Acclamations whiche the Grecians alwaies vsed in their Councelles cried out Petrus per Leonemita locutus est Peter hath so spoken by Leo. Leo him selfe seemeth to declare in what sense S. Peter is thus ioined with him in gouernement of the Churche where he saith thus Post resurrectionem suam Dominus beato Petro Apostolo post regni claues Sermo in â—atiuitate Petri et Pauli ad trinam aeterni amoris professionem mystica insinuatione ter dixit Pasceoues meas quod nunc proculdubio facit mandatum Dominipius pastor exequitur confirmans nos exhortationibus suis pro nobis orare non cessans vt nulla tentatione superemur Si autem hanc pietatis suae curam omni populo Dei sicut credendum est vbique protendit quantò magis alumnis suis opem suam dignatur impendere apud quos in sacro dormitionis thoro eadem qua praecedit carne requiescit Our Lorde after his resurrection said thrise signifiyng a mysterie vnto S. Peter the Apostle Iohan. 21. after the keies of his kingdome had ben geuen to him at what time he made three times profession that he loued him Feede my sheepe whiche without doubte he doth also now and as a godly sheepeheard fulfilleth our Lordes commaundement confirming vs with his exhortations and not ceassing to praie for vs that we be ouercome by no tentation And if he streatche abroad in euery place this his Godly care to al the people of God as it it to be beleeued how muche more doth he vouchesaue to bestow his helpe vpon his owne deere ones among whom he resteth in the sacred bed of his dormition that is to saie in his Sepulchre in the same fleshe in whiche he goeth before vs. In what sense then S. Peter is said to feede Christes sheepe to this daie in the same sense it might wel be said of Leos decrees that they were Decreta à Leone beatissimo Apostolo Petro thinges decreed by Leo and by S. Peter the Apostle God geuing the good inspiration Certaine other suche phrases of Leo M. Iewel condemneth as conteining immoderate and ambitious praise of S. Peter and for the same would discredite that auncient learned Father about the discussion of whiche I thinke it not worth my labour to stand They maie wel be admitted with a conuenient vnderstanding and suche as euery good man would at the first reading of them conceiue Marie I confesse a curious carper wil finde faulte not onely with that this holy Father but with what so euer any learned Father hath written if he be disposed to wrangle vpon that whiche seemeth to be contrarie to the doctrine he hath taken vpon him to mainteine Iewel Pag. 111. Some others haue thought that as vvel these Epistles of Leo as also others moe and other the auncient Bishoppes of Rome haue benne interlaced and falsified by the ambitious Popes that folovved aftervvard c. Harding Of the number of these some others your selfe are one M. Iewel and your felowes are the reste who neiter being hable to auoide the truthe by Leo most clearely vttered nor willing to yelde vnto it would faine wiste ye how raise vp against the credite of his Epistles a surmise of Corruption and falsifying a common practise of yours But what you and suche others as you are thinke of Leo it skilleth litle He hath benne esteemed hitherto for a worthy Clerke and a holy Father Berengarius your first founder hath alwaies benne accompted an heretique and so shal al the Zuinglians and Caluinistes that folow him vpon whose credite ye haue gaged the euerlasting state of your soules be accompted of the Church for euer Of al your weake shiftes this is the weakest and hath leaste coloure of learning to saie of that in an auncient Father ye are not hable to answere that it is interlaced and falsified by the Popes If ye could once purchase you this authoritie to condemne of corruption and falsifying what is found to make cleare against you bring we neuer so muche for proufe of the Catholiquâ— religion your Answer maie soone be ready What you saie of Pope Zosimus falsifying of the Councel of Nice it hath benne throughly answered by vs as I tolde you before and as you know M. Iewel right wel and yet you dissemble it as if nothing were by vs said at al and let not so oftentimes to sing one song Whiche argueth a contentious witte and a desire to fil vp great bookes be the matter neuer so much and sufficiently before answered Iewel Pag. 112. Touching that M. Harding calleth the Pope the prince of Pastours be might haue remembred 1. Pet. 5. that the right of this name belongeth only vnto Christe S. Peter saith That vvhen Christe the prince of Pastours shal appeare ye maie receiue the vncorruptible crovvn Novv to inseaffe the Pope vvith Christes peculiar titles a maÌ„ might think it vvere great blasphemy Harding The Pope lawfully called the Prince of Pastours The 34. Chapt. Great blasphemie saie you Wo be then to S. Augustine that spake such great blasphemie when in a Sermon made before the people August de Sanctis Serm. 28. he called S. Peter principem Apostolorum the prince of the Apostles But the Apostles were Pastours yea the chiefe Pastours of Christes flocke Ergo S. Augustine sawe that it was no great blasphemie to cal S. Peter principem Pastorum the prince of Pastours August de verbis domini in Euang. secundum Math. Sermon 13. Euseb Eccles hist lib. 2. c. 14. In Registro epist 32. In Iohan. Homil. 87 He hath the like wordes in an other place Idem Petrus a petra cognominatus beatus Ecclesiae figuram portans Apostolatus principatum tenens The same blessed Peter hauing his name of a Rocke bearing the figure of the Churche holdeth the princehood of the Apostleship Eusebius also calleth S. Peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prince of al the reste of the Apostles To S. Peter prince of al the Apostles the charge of the whole Churche was committed saith S. Gregorie S. Chrysostome nameth him Totius orbis magistrum the maister of the whole worlde no whit lesse in effecte then Prince of Pastours S. Bernard saith to the pope Tu Princeps Episcoporum Thou arte Prince of Bishoppes But Bishoppes are Pastours Ergo the Pope is Prince of Pastours To leaue many others and
and the Popes to be his successours He hath shewed also how the other Apostles were equal with Peter and how in other respectes they had lesse power for ordinarie continuance in their successours then Peter had But if I were of M. Iewels boasting humour I should now dissemble al this and write it in here a fresh as though nothing had benne said thereof before But I trowe wise men espie that smoky pride in him wel ynough I wisse lesse bookes might haue serued him for any good stuffe that is to be founde in them The fourth Booke conteineth a ful refutation of al that M. Iewel hath laid together in his pretensed Defence touching the Succession of Bishops in the Churche from the Apostles time vnto this present age Item a proufe of the necessitie of Confession WRITING the Confutation of the Apologie I had occasion to speake of the Succession of Bishoppes Thereto M. Iewel in his pretensed Defence hath replied at great length Wherein bicause he may perhaps to the vnlearned seme to haue some colour of aduantage against vs the matter being of good weight I iudge it not vnprofitable to bestow some labour and here to coÌ„fute his whole Defence touching that point whereby I doubte not it shal appeare how litle credite he deserueth if his sayinges be throughly examined where he blazeth forth most shew of learning That it maie appeare how directly he answereth the pointes of this Controuersie and of what pith his owne sayinges and how muche to the purpose his testimonies be and how truly alleged and that al be made the more plaine and cleere I wil reherse first the place of the Apologie that gaue me occasion to treat of Succession then the wordes of my Confutation against whiche M. Iewel bendeth the force of his Defence After this I wil laie forth his whole Defence sentence by sentence worde by worde as I finde it in his booke and so briefly as I can refel the same I am driuen to reherse that discourse of my Confutation againe bicause a great parte of the Defence depending thereof and being directed against the same onlesse it were againe by rehersal commended to the readers view and memorie our whole disputation would be obscure and vncertaine And this haue I donne also the rather to thintent the reader might haue that parte of my Confutation intier and whole whiche M. Iewel hath caused to be set forth in his booke pared hewed dismembred and altogether disgraced The Apologie parte 2. Cap. 5. Diuis 1. in the Defence Pag. 125. Furthermore vve saie that the miâ—ister ought laufully duely and orderly to be preferred to that office of the Church of God and that no man hath povver to vvrest him selfe into the holy Ministerie at his ovvne pleasure VVherefore these persons do vs the greater vvrong vvhiche haue nothing so common in their mouthes as that vve do nothing orderly and comely but al thinges troublesomly and vvithout order and that vve allovv euery man to be a priest to be a teacher and to be an interpretour of the scriptures Confutation fol. 56. a. Al from starre to starre leafte out by M. Ievvel Saing and doing are two thinges Ye saye wel in outward appearance Would God your doing were accordingly Albeit the manner of your saying had ben more coÌ„mendable if in so weighty a point you had spokeÌ„ more particularly and distinctly not so generally and confusely * Ye saye that the minister ought laufully to be called for so hath your Latine and duely and orderly to be preferred to that office of the Churche of God Why do ye not so why is not this obserued among you Gospellers What so euer ye meane by your Minister and by that office this are we assured of that in this your new Church Bishops Priestes Deacons Subdeacons or any other inferiour Orders ye haue none No holy orders among the gospellers Leâ—â— out by M. Ievvel In saying thus we speake not of our Apostates that be fledde from vs vnto your congregations Who as they remaine in the order which they receiued in the catholike Church so being diuided and cut of from the Church and excommunicate laufully they may not minister the sacramentes * For where as after the doctrine of your newe Gospel like the foreronners of Antichrist ye haue abandoned thexternal Sacrifice and priesthod of the newe Testament and haue not in your secte consecrated Bishops and therefore being without Priestes made with lawfull laying on of handes as Scripture requireth al holy Orders being geuen by Bishops only how can ye saie that any among you can laufully minister or that ye haue any lauful Ministers at al This then being so let me haue leaue to oppose one of these Defenders consciences And that for the better vnderstanding I may directe my wordes to a certaine person let him be the author of this Apologie or bicause his name to me is vnknowen let him be M. Iewel for with him gladly would I reason in this point the rather for acquaintaince and for that he beareth the name of a Bishop in that Churche where my selfe had a rome How saye you Syr minister Bishop ought the Minister to be laufully called ought he duely and orderly to be preferred to that office or as the Latine here hath promoted or put in authoritie ouer the Church in the Apologie this Defender saith yea Leaft out by M. Ievvel Then answer me directely How proue you your selfe laufully called to the roume you take vpon you to occupie First touching the ordinary Succession of Bishops from which as you knowe S. Iraeneus Tertullian Optatus and S. Augustine bring argument and testimonie of right and true religion do you allow the same with those fathers or no If not then dissent you from the learned and most vncorrupte antiquitie which is not reasonable neither then are you to be heard If yea then how can you recken vs vp your succession by which you may referre your imposition of handes and consecration to some of the Apostles or of their scholers as the foresaid fathers did to repel the nouelties of heresies and defende their continual possession of the Churche Which if ye go about how can ye but to the great hinderance of your cause bewraye your weake holde For whereas succession of doctrine must be ioyned with the succession of persons as Caluine in his institutions affirmeth and Beza auouched at the assemblie of Poyssi in Fraunce and we also graunt Succession of doctrine ioyned vvith succession of persons how many Bishoppes can you recken whom in the Churche of Sarisburie you haue succeded as wel in doctrine as in outward sitting in that chayre How many can you tel vs of that being your Predecessours in order before you were of your opinion and taught the faithful people of that Dioces the doctrine that you teache Dyd Bishop Capon teach your doctrine did Shaxton did Campegius did Bishop Audley Briefly did euer any Bishop of that See
whiche beare the name of Christians And to the Apostles Christe said Matt. 28. I am with you al daies vntil the worldes ende If he be with them til the ende they likewise are in the worlde til the worldes ende But they liued not so long in this worlde therefore it is meant that from age to age and from man to man Christe will haue alwayes some to sitte in the Chaieres and Seates of his Apostles by ordinarie Succession vntil the worldes ende Of this Succession Dauid in the person of Christ spake in spirite saying to the Church For thy Fathers Psal 44. Sonnes are borne vnto thee Thou shalt ordeine them the Chiefe Gouernours ouer al the earth The Church answereth I shal be mindeful o Lorde of thy name in euery Generation and Generation therefore the peoples shal geue praise and thankes to thee for euer and from age to age .. So that the cause why the Churche continueth are the Gouernours by God appointed vnto it and as the Churche continueth from age to age so do they gouerne from age to age For the Visible Flocke of shepe can not long lacke their Visible shepeheard at any time but that the Wolues wil enter in and disperse them a sunder Iewel VVhen Christ beganne to refourme their abuses and errours they said to him Luc. 20. Mark 11. Beda in Lucam li. 5. cap. 80. by vvhat povver doest thou these thinges and vvho gaue the this authoritie vvhere is thy Succession Vpon vvhiche vvordes Beda saith They vvould haue the people vnderstand for that he had no solenne Succession that al that he did vvas of the Deuil Harding See vvhat cōueiāce M. Ievv vseth to helpe his cause Scarse one line hath passed your handes into the whiche you haue nor conueied of your owne head the worde Succession Whereas neither S. Luke nor S Mathew nor S. Marke nor S. Paule nor S. Hierome nor the Pharisees nor Bede whom you allege vsed that worde at al. But to make your tale sound against Succession M. Ievv falsifieth al his testimonies you driue al to that point and thereby you falsifie euery place that you bring as euery man shal finde who doth conferre the matter with the Originals and so al your Defence standeth vpon fialsified Authorities But our cause God be praised for it is so strong Christes true Succession that we neede not to care though al that were true whiche you allege For albeit the Pharisees would not harken to Christes Succession yet in deede he Succeded lineally to al the Kinges and Patriarkes and thereby to the Priestes also of the best Order to wit of the Lawe of nature and not of the Law of Moyses whiche was an inferiour Lawe in respecte of that of Nature Christ therefore had not onely a most perfite Succession which is described in the Gospel from Adam til Ioseph the husbande of the Virgin Marie but also with that his Succession he stopped al the mouthes of his Enemies For thus he said to them VVhat thinke you of Christe that is of your Messias whom you looke for Matt. 22. VVhose Sonne is he They say to him the Sonne of Dauid Christ saith to them Psal 109. How then doth Dauid cal him Lorde in spirite saying The Lord hath said to my Lord sit at my right hand vntil I put thy enemies as a foote stoole vnder thy feete If then Dauid cal him Lorde how is he his Sonne And no man was hable to answer him a worde Neither durst any manne after that daye aske him any moe questions Here it is first to be noted that the Scribes and Pharisees knew Christ to haue a Succession from Dauid For his Sonne they said he must be Therefore M. Iewel in making the Pharisees to acknowledge no Succession of his hath corrupted the texte of the Gospel and vttered a great Vntruthe The Pharisees knew that Christe should succede in the very beste line but they would not attende nor consider how that Succession was now brought to passe in the Sonne of Marie who being of the howse of Dauid had miraculously brought forth Christe the perfite ende of the Lawe So likewise M. Iewel knoweth that the Churche of Christe must needes haue a perpetual Succession but he wil not consider how it is preserued chiefely in the Chaier of Peter Ioan. 21. to whom aboue al others the sheepe of Christ were committed Wel Christe then geuing the Iewes to vnderstand that he succeeded in the line of Dauid Christ not only the Sonne of Dauid but also the Sône of God would haue had them farther to consider that he also was the sonne of God and so shewed that he who was Dauids Sonne was also called the Lord of Dauid his Sonne by flesh his Lord by Godhed which thing did put them al to silence Euen so that weake mortal and some time miserable and sinful man whome sitting at Rome M. Iewel despiseth when he heareth him to be according to the gifte of God the Vicare of Christes loue as S. Ambrose calleth him in feeding his shepe Ambr. in cōmment in Luc. c. 24. and the Successour of the chiefe Apostle he is surely astoined at it and would be put to silence if he were not worse then a Pharisee For admitting that the Pope were not S. Peters Successour but onely one of the lowest Bishoppes of Christes Churche yet who would not woonder to see him keepe his Succession so notably fiften hundred yeres together wheras al the Patriarkes and thousandes of Bishops besides are so mangled and so brought to nought But now if wee adde hereunto that the same is euen by our enemies confession and euer was the first See how muche more ought they to woonder at the special prouidence of God in that behalfe Therefore euen as it was miraculous that the line of Dauid was so notably preserued in so many changes and captiuities of the Iewes right so may we say of the Bishoppes of Rome in suche sorte as smaller thinges doo imitate the greater and may in their manner be compared to the greater Iewel Cyrillus frameth the Pharisees vvordes in this sorte Cyrillus in Cathen in Luc. 20. Thou Being of the tribe of Iuda and therefore hauing no right by Succession vnto the Priesthood takest vpon thee the office that is committed vnto vs. Harding Here againe you adde these wordes hauing no right by Succession vnto the Priesthode of your owne head M. Ievv falsifieth Cyrillus by adding vvordes of his ovvne Howbeit euen there Cyrillus sheweth that Christe had right by Succession which you should not haue conceeled had you dealt truly For there it foloweth Sed si nouisses ô Pharisee scripturas recoleres quòd hic est Sacerdos qui secundùm ordinem Melchisedech offert Deo in se credentes per cultum qui legem transcendit O thou Pharisee Christe had right also by successiō if thou haddest knowen the Scriptures thou wouldest remember that this
ad Antichristum velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent VVould God they vvere not al gonne by consent together from religion to superstition from saith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist These fevv vvordes considering either the speaker or the place vvhere they vvere spoken may seme sufficient Harding If you had considered either the speaker or the place so as you ought to haue donne you might haue benne ashamed to haue alleged the woordes of a Catholike Prelate for your purpose For what soeuer he meant by them you may be wel assured he meant not to say that the Catholique Churche was gonne from faith to infidelitie or from Christe to Antichrist Otherwise he him selfe would not haue stil continued in that Catholique Churche which had seemed to him to haue lacked faith Cornelius episcopus Bitōtinus and Christe But nowe the man is knowen in al Italie and is aliue to this daye who stil continueth in dayly preaching and in exhorting al men to flie from your heresies to the Catholike faith and to keepe them in the Churche so that his deedes do wel shewe what he meant by his wordes The whiche rule S. Augustine would haue kepte in the vnderstanding of what so euer Writers A lesson hovv to vnderstande mennes vvordes in matter of Religion Contra epist Parmen li. 3. cap. 4. and specially touching religion And who so euer doth not so vnderstand mennes wordes by their deedes vpon his blindnesse he cryeth out in this sorte Incredibilis est coecita hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tanta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorum factorúmque patesceret vsque adeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt commemorent sanctae Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis prophetarum quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarum It is an incredible blindnesse of menne and verely I knowe not howe it might be beleeued that there is suche frowardnesse in menne onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so fast closed that they allege the testimonies of holy scripture and do not consider by the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded And straight after where S. Augustine saith those wordes he sheweth by example what he meant Hieremie had written Hier. 2. what hath Chaffe to doo with the Wheate The Donatistes thereupon reasoned that the Catholikes were Chaffe and them selues Wheate but saith S. Augustine by waie of exposition there did Hieremie that said the Iewes were Chaffe forsake their Church and fellowship No verely How so euer then Hieremie the prophete meant we ought to vnderstand his wordes according to his deedes And seing as concerning his deedes he liued in one Temple and faith with them whom he called Chaffe we may be wel assured that by the name of Chaffe he meant not that the Iewes had not true Faith and Religion but only that they had not true Charitie and Obedience Euen so if M. Iewel would consider that the Bishop of Bitonto goeth not from Italie to Geneua nor to Germanie nor to England but both abideth stil in his Bisshoprike and hath so much preached against these present Heresies of Luther Zuinglius and Caluin that now three whole Volumes of his eloquent Italian Sermons are extant in print if he would haue considered this he might haue benne ashamed with such a great brauarie and so ofte to haue alleged a Catholike mannes woordes against Rome the mother Churche of al Catholikes S. Augustine calleth it an incredible blindnesse so to doo and suche as no man would beleeue except he saw it vsed But by whom Verely by Heretikes who hauing no truth for them doo stil make vaine bragges and shewes of woordes when the very deedes of them whose woordes they bring are against them Which thing I stand the longer vppon bicause M. Iewel hath vsed this practise aboue a thowsand times in his pretensed Defence M. Ievvel euery vvhere allegeth their vvordes for him vvhom by their deedes he vvel knoweth to be against him Aboue a thousand tymes I say he hathe alleged the woordes of Schoolemen Gloses Summistes and Canonistes for his purpose whereas he wel knoweth they beleeued al suche as he is to be detestable Heretiques and for suche condemned them Yet must they be brought in and that so often so seriouslie and with suche Preambles as though he woulde beare the worlde in hande they were cleare of his side Neither did Cornelius the Bisshoppe of Bitonto speake of the Bisshoppes of Rome specially as M. Iewel would beare the Readers in hande Bitōtinus in oratione habita in Concil Tridentino but generally of the Christians saying that they haue wandered like sheepe in hilles and feeldes and that the chiefe of them are turned from authoritie vnto Lordlynes from right vnto wronge and would God saith he they were not vtterly as it were with one consent bowed from Religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist Neither doth he say they are al gonne as M. Iewel englisheth the woordes Hovv M. Ievvel falsifieth his allegation The woorde al is not there Againe he saith not they are gonne by consent altogether but velut prorsus vnanimes as it were vtterly of one minde The worde velut as it were doth temper his woordes but M. Iewel hath leafte out velut and hath put in this worde al lest if the sentence of that Bishop should be thus tempered it should not seeme greuous inough His meaning was to complaine as euery good man dayly doth vppon the vices of menne who liue as if they had neither Faithe nor Religion And that woulde haue appeared most plaine if M. Iewel had not cutte of the later woordes of Cornelius vncourteously stopping him from telling out his whole tale For in the very same sentence it foloweth A Christo ad Antichristum quin à Deo ad Epicurum vel ad Pythagoram velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent Would God they had not as it were vtterly with one consent gonne a side from Christe to Antichriste yea rather from God to Epicure or to Pythagoras These last woordes whiche made al plaine were omitted by M. Iewel as his custome is and the authours tale is falsified and his woordes abused For any man woulde soone iudge that they goe not to Epicure or Pythagoras to the ende to mainteine the doctrine and opinions that those Philosophers helde Pardonne me good Reader if herein I seeme to long For at this tyme I doo but as it were geue thee a shewe what and howe muche might be said in euery other Article of the Booke if I thought it labour worthe to discusse them particularly For I assure thee in my conscience there is not any thing in this pretensed Defence whiche might not be wel and easily answered were not that it seemeth to me a thing both superfluous so to answere suche heapes of
euer allege against the truth without some corruptioÌ„ In S. Paules words you leaft out a smal word in appearance but yet great of strength The worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 enim M. Ievv corrupteth S. Paule which in english doth signifie for This word for geueth great light to S. Paules meaning For wheÌ„ he had said that the preaching of the Gospel to the Gentiles was coÌ„mitted vnto him euen as the preaching of the Gospel to the Iewes was coÌ„mitted vnto S. Peter least any man should thinke that he meant of a special commission purposely reserued to him alone by God he declareth how that commission might be proued Qui enim operatus est Petro For he that hath wrought in Peter in the Apostleship of the Circuncision that is to saie of the Iewes hath wrought in me also emong the gentiles That same enim for doth make the place plaine They knew that God had no lesse committed the Gentiles to Paule then the Iewes to Peter How knew they it For he wrought now as mightily with Paule emong the Gentiles as he had wrought before with Peter emong the Iewes So that S. Chrysostome wel noteth Chrysost in 2. ca. ad Galat. non dixit postquà m audissent sed cognouissent hoc est ex ipsis didicissent factis He said not after they had heard but after they had knowen that is to say after they had learned by the deedes them selues Marke M. Iewel marke the deedes them selues It was now the commission of the deedes whereby God declared him selfe to haue wrought in them both But that not withstanding S. Peter did might and ought to preache vnto the Gentiles and to plant and dispose their Churches no lesse then S. Paule And S. Paule might likewise plante dispose and order the Iewes Churches For their right was one concerning the Apostolike authoritie Iewel VVhere you say that according to the ecclesiastical Canons euer from the Apostles time Bishops haue euermore ben consecrated by three other bishops vvith the confirmation of the bishop of Rome Harding I said M. Ievv falsifieth my saying with the consent of the Metropolitane which you haue here pared awaie and Confirmation of the Bishop of Rome I added also thus Vnitie hath euer benne kepte whiche you also haue vntruly leaft out Iewel Pag. 129. As if vvithout him no man might be allovved to be a Bishop yee should not so vnaduisely report so manifest Vntruth For I besech you vvhere be these Ecclesiastical Canons VVho deuised them VVho made them VVho gaue the Pope that singular priuilege that no Bishop should be admitted in al the vvorlde but onely by him Harding Among the Canons of the Apostles this is the first Episcopus à duobus aut tribus Episcopis ordinetur Let a Bishop be ordered or made Bishop by two or three Bishoppes These Canons are allowed by the sixth General Councel Yet can you aske where be these Ecclesiastical Canons who deuised them who made them By a Decre of Hilarius no Bishop can be coÌ„secrated without the Metropolitanes consent What Consecration could M. Iewel and his felowes haue who hath neither Metropolitan at al nor lawful Bishop to Consecrate them Howbeit touching this I nede to saie litle for in the very nexte side of the leafe M. Iewel confuteth him selfe Where as one that had quite forgoten him selfe he saith thus Our Bishoppes are made in Fourme and Order as they haue benne euer by free election of the Chapter by the Consecration of the Archebishop and other three Bishoppes If this be the Fourme and Order of making Bishops that hath benne euer to be Consecrated by tharchebishop and three other Bishops why were you so hote against me in calling for th'Ecclesiastical CanoÌ„s which you bind your selfe now to shew or elles you must confesse that you haue made this new order that hath not ben euer Anacletus In epist Decret The Popes autoritie of coÌ„fiming Bishops is of Christ Ioan. 21. But now concerning the Popes authoritie to confirme Bishops to omit for this present the olde Canon of Pope Anacletus which is afterward alleged and to shew the first author of this mater Christe who made Peter the chiefe Pastour of al and who gaue commission to him louing him more then the other Apostles did to feede accordingly as he loued that is to feede more then the oâ—her Apostles did Christe who inspired Peter to goe to Rome and there to settle the Apostolike See and Chaire of his Bishoply Primacie Christe who inspired Peter to make S. Clement and the other Bishoppes of Rome his Successours gaue the Bishop of Rome Peters Successour this Priuiledge that no Bishop ought to be a Bishop without his consent For what reason can suffer that any man shal gouuerne any part of those sheepe whiche are al committed to the Bishop of Rome without the Bishop of Romes consent which consent is a Confirmation sufficient to any Bishop for the due gouernmeÌ„t of his flocke Now this consent of the Bishop of Rome was many wayes knowen For when soeuer he coÌ„sented to the general order of the catholik Church to wit that he should be a Bishop whosoeuer were laufully chosen by the Clergie Optatâ—us lib. 2. Communicatorie letters then his coÌ„sent was geuen generally And when after the election made coÌ„municatorie letters thereof came to Rome as to be head place of the Christian CoÌ„munion then was the said Bishop specially coÌ„firmed and so coÌ„firmed that the Pope could not choose but coÌ„firme him except he could make any iust exceptioÌ„ against him For as no man ought to gouuerne in the Church without the Popes confirmatioÌ„ when it may coÌ„modiously be had without impediment euen so the Pope must nedes confirme those who are lawfully chosen except he wil vpon good ground change the gouuernmeÌ„t of the Dioces to a more profitable order as many times it hath ben don This mater would require a large Treatise But it is in part handled already in my first booke set forth against the Articles of your ChaleÌ„ge M. Iew. wher you might haue sene what I alleged why the Pope should confirme Bishops so that now this thing should not haue ben so strange vnto you Ievvel Pag. 129. I remember your Canonistes haue said Felin D. constitut ca. Canonum statuta col 6. ver fallit M. Ievvel speaketh as if he had ben a Canonist many yeres agoe the Pope may make a Bishop only by his vvorde vvithout any farther Consecration Harding Do you remember it M. Iewel It was clearkly spoken forsooth and in such sort as if you had ben an olde studeÌ„t of the CanoÌ„ law many a winter past and that now whiles you had ben occupied in higher maters yet some of these former meditations had come againe to your minde and worthily For it was a thing much to be mused vpon of him that occupieth a Bishops place what Felinus or Panormitan said coÌ„cerning the Pope The truth is M. Iewel you either had this
had deceiued the Pope by false suggestion Therefore if a true suggestion had ben made to the Pope his Decree should haue preuailed although it extended it selfe as farre as Spaine and that for the restitution of a Bishop against him that was newly elected a Bishop by the consent of al the Bishops of Spaine Therefore the Popes authoritie ouer other Bisshops grounding it selfe vpon a right and true information was acknowledged in the Primitiue Church Iewel Pag. 129. 130. Dist 64. cap. fin In dede touching euery Metropolitanes seueral Iurisdiction Gratianus noteth thus Illud generaliter clarum est quod si quis praeter sententiam Metropolitani fuerit factus Episcopus hunc magna synodus definiuit Episcopum esse non oportere This is generally cleare that if any man be made Bishop vvithout the consent of his Metropolitane the great councel of Nice hath decreed that such a one may not be Bishop So likevvise saith Socrates of the Bishop of Constantinople VVithout the consent of the Bishop of Constantinople let no man be chosen Bishop Socrates Lib. 7. cap. 28. Here is a right reserued specially to the Bishop of Constantinople and to euery Metropolitane vvithin his ovvne prouince But of the Bishop of Romes vniuersal right of Confirmation vve heare nothing Harding You reason vpon authoritie negatiuely as though if the Councel of Nice and Socrates speake not of that confirmation whiche belongeth to the Bishop of Rome therefore there could be no suche But it appeareth by S. Cyprian in diuers Epistles that it was the custome in his time for a Bishop newly made to sende letters to al the other Bishops intimating his Election Now as those letters came first and specially to the Bishop of Rome Cyprian Lib. 1. Epist 3. as fitting by S. Cyprians owne confession in the principal chaire and succeding S. Peter euen so if the Pope for iuste causes had not receiued the letters and communion of the said newe Bishop he then for lacke of the Popes confirmation could not rightly haue enioyed his Bishoprike as it appeareth by many examples which would require a discourse ouer long for this place nor very needeful sith the confirmation of Bishoppes is not our principal matter but only the Succession Yet M. Iewel who remēbreth of olde so much Canon Lawe may cal to his remembrance what I haue said in my Answer to the Articles of his Chalenge In my Ansvver Artic. 4. where I haue shewed that the Pope had three Legates in the Easte a In epist. Simplicij ad Acatiū one in Constantinople b In epist Bonifacij ad Eulalium the other in Alexandria c Leo epistol 82. the third in Thessalonica Whereunto M. Iewel hath replied nothing as also M. Stapleton hath noted in the Returne Now if those Bishops being not only Metropolitanes but also two of them Patriarkes were neuer the lesse the Popes Legates it is easy to see how the Popes confirmation was geuen to the Bishoppes generally vnder those Primates seing the Primates them selues were confirmed by him or els they were not accompted lawful Bishops for lacke of his cōfirmation Zonaras in vita Constātis nepot Heraclij as it is euident in the exāple of Pyrrhus the Bishop of Cōstantinople who both was put into his bishoprike by the bishop of Rome when he had persuaded him that he was Catholike and againe was put out by his autoritie when it was perceiued that he had dissembled Iewel Pag. 130. Neither doth M. Hardinges counterfeite Anacletus claime al the Bisshops thorough the vvorld as belonging to his Admission Epistol 3. dist 93. iuxta Sanctorū but only a parte These be his vvordes Omnes episcopi qui huius Apostolicae sedis ordinationi subiacent Al the bisshops that are vnder the ordering or confirmation of this Apostolike See Harding If Anacletus be counterfeite Anacletus not counterfeite it is farre from our knowledge For we found that Epistle in his name registred emong the epistles of other Popes aboue a thousand yeres past And Isidorus who gathered them found them so intitled as we reade them Therefore your slaunderours tongue toucheth not vs. Ordination and Confirmation are diuers Concerning that you accompte Ordering and Confirmation to be al one it is a grosse errour both in Grammer and in knowledge of histories Ordinatio is ordering and Confirmatio is confirmation The Ordering of bishops was done by the bishops of the same Prouince with the consent of the Metropolitane Nicen. Concil ca. 6. But the confirmation was made by other Bisshops also without the Prouince and specially by the Bishop of Rome who these many hundred yeres hath confirmed them alone bicause the vse of communicatorie letters is leaft and that is reputed don◠by the whole body which is done by the head thereof Iewel Pag. 130. Sozom. li. 6. cap. 23. So likevvise vvriteth Damasus to the Bisshops of Illyricum Par est omnes qui sunt in orbe Romano magistros consentire It is meete that al the teachers vvithin the Romaine iurisdiction should agree together Harding The olde stuffe of M Iewels Replie here repeated Before you referred these matters to your Replie as though you would haue said no more thereof and yet al this while you do but write out your Replie againe To what purpose you allege these wordes I cannot tel as the which make euidently against you and nothing for you The Romaine world or iurisdiction was both East and Weast as farre as the Romaines had conquered and they had conquered al the countries wherein al the Patriarchal Sees were placed If therefore by Damasus you wil proue that he confirmed al the bishops in the Romaine circuite surely you proue thereby that he confirmed the three Patriarkes of Alexandria of Antioche and of Ierusalem with al the bishops vnder them So wel your owne tale is tolde And in dede better it can not be tolde seing euery thing that is true is agreable with the truth and therefore what soeuer you falsifie not must needes proue against you who susteine the false cause Iewel Pag. 130. Againe that you say a Bisshop hath alvvaies benne consecrated by other three Bisshops vvhether it be true or no it may vvel be called in question a◠being of your parte hitherto very vveakely affirmed Harding My affirmation therein is taken out of the fact of the three Apostles S. Peter S. Iohn and S. Iames Euseb histor Eccl. lib. 2. ca. 2 who as Eusebius witnesseth did consecrate our Lordes brother the first bishop of Ierusalem And he againe reciteth it out of Clemens Alexandrinus So auncient was this tradition whereof now M. Iewel doubteth The same likewise is againe witnessed in the fourth Councel Concil holden at Carthage Cartha 4 where two bishops are prescribed to holde the booke of the Gospels ouer the Bishops head Can. 2. whiles the third blesseth him Iewel Pag. 130. Surely Petrus de Palude
the first fiue hundred yeres the Sacrament of the Aultare was geuen to children at their baptisme And yet M. Iewel can not saie that this later custome is worse then the first was but rather that it is better as the councel of Trent hath declared I demaunde then of any M. Iewels Predecessours in Sarisburie euen til our Apostle S. Augustines time but he skippeth ouer these last thowsand yeres and asketh me of that which was before Whiche inequalitie not withstanding I answer to his question and saie that al the Bishops of Rome as wel before S. Augustines time as sithence mainteined our Religion And that I proue bicause the B. of Rome that now is Pius the fifth doth allow our Religion For we communicate with him and he with vs. And this present Bishop agreed with his predecessour Pius the fourth and he againe with Paulus the fourth And so if we go vpward from man to man from Pope to Pope euen vnto S. Gregories time we shal find that concerning any question which is betwen the ProtestaÌ„tes and vs there was neuer Pope yet which disagreed with his predecessours or aftercommers For euery one of them doth prayse and follow S. Gregorie Now S Gregorie sent S. Augustine into England who turned our English nation to the faith and S. Gregorie him selfe agreed in saith with his predecessours euen til we come to S. Peter Neither can it be shewed whiche Pope did euer breake or change the vniuersal faith which was in Rome or any where els before concerning either priuate Masse as you terme it or any other Article If then Pius the fifth or any Pope els do allow priuate Masse as it is euident he doth and the General Councel of Trent with him certainely euery Pope before him did allow the same For this Pope agreeth with his predecessours Or els if vntil S. Gregories time priuate Masse in such sense as we now dispute of it had not ben heard of being so hainous an offence against God as that whereby the Institution of Christes supper is broken which Pope so euer had begonne it he should haue ben noted for his new Inuention as they haue ben who haue begonne any change as in certaine ceremonies some haue done Platina in vitis Pontifi For pope Sergius is noted to haue ben the first that changed his former name Leo the third was the first that placed the empire in Fraunce and Germanie and Hadrianus the third was the first that chalenged to be pope without the Emperours authoritie and so forth in many like matters But seing M. Iewel can name no man who beganne to saie or allow priuate Masse and yet seing it is said and allowed thoroughout al Christendom it is S. Augustines owne rule that the said vse of priuate Masse came from the Apostles them selues For thus he writeth August ad Ianuarium Epist 118. Quod vniuersa tenet Ecclesia nee Concilijs institutum sed semper retentum est non nisi authoritate Apostolica traditum rectissimè creditur What thing the whole Churche keepeth and hath not ben instituted in Councels but hath ben alwayes reteined the same is most rightly beleued to haue ben deliuered none otherwise then by Apostolike authoritie Neither M. Iewel nor any man els can shew vs which CouÌ„cel instituted first Priuate masse and the Church from age to age is found to haue had priuate masse neither can any one man be named that first said it therfore priuat Masse and also the other necessary pointes of our religion are most rightly beleued to haue proceded onely from the Apostolique authoritie Thus I haue answered M. Iewels question Now let him answer myne Iewel Touching the Bishops of Sarisburie you your selfe haue named tvvo Bishop Shaxton and Bishop Capon both learned and graue fathers and both preachers and professours of the gospel Harding Bishop Shaxton not to be accoÌ„pted of M. Iew els syde Emong the wise a man is accompted to be suche as that is be it good or euil wherein he maketh abode and what thing is done by a man but once or seldom and wherein he maketh no continuance thereof he hath not his name For example he is not accoumpted vertuous and iuste who once or very seldom doth vertuously or iustly Aristotel in Ethicis Vna Hirundo noÌ„ facit ver Math. 10. but he that doth often so and stil desireth so to do This much M. Iewel you shoulde haue learned of Aristotle who teacheth you that it is not one Swalow that maketh the Springtide After this sense Christe him selfe said they are blessed that continue vntil the ende But Bisshop Shaxton although he sometime preached certaine partes of your doctrine as a man being deceiued by Luthers and the Lutheranes bookes before he had wel examined them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet he continued not in your congregation but repented him earnestly of it and reuoked his former vnaduised doinges If then his iudgement with you be of some accoumpte his last iudgement must stand It is said you know by the wise and reason so geueth that the second thoughtes are better aduised and of more wisedome To saie few it is wel knowen in al therealme that he died a Catholique and coulde by no meanes be brought to reuolte to you againe in al King Edwardes time And so you haue no helpe by B. Shaxton Touching bishop Capon he was neuer in his life wholy of your beleefe Bishop Capon â—o Protestant none otherwise but as euery man most loueth him selfe and the thinges of the worlde so he is the more enclined to your side and hath the more liking of your lewde fleshly and licencious Doctrine And who that is more carried awaie with the lustes of the fleshe then is ruled by the aduises of the Spirite would not be glad to hearken vnto such a fleshly Gospel and as it were vpon a softe coishon to leane the elbowes of his loose conscience Whereby I meane not to accuse that Bishop of any vnknowen crime but only to shewe that whiles he was loth to displease the Prince and glad to please him selfe and for feare confourmed him selfe to the worlde he seemed to fauoure sundrie pointes of your proceedinges and in some parte rather did like vnto you then beleeued as you do as it is wel knowen by the order of his life and specially by his ende whiche trieth a man best at what time he shewed him selfe thoroughly Catholique and hartily repented that he had euer gonne so farre with you And bicause he was knowen not to haue ben of your side in harte he was suffered to keepe his state and bishoprike in Quene Maries time when al the Protestantes were remoued from suche roumes Thus haue you neither Shaxton nor Capon for your predecessour and consequently you are as S. Cyprian said of Nouatian Nemini succedens à teipso ordinatus Cypria li. 1. epist 6. a Bishop succeding no man but ordeined of your selfe Which thing would
and the authoritie of Pope Coelestinus resisteth the impietie of Nestorius And yet is Pope Coelestinus a Nestorian No truly but M. Iewel prooueth him selfe a most impudent Lyer and a wicked sclaunderer Iewel Pope Honorius vvas a Monothelite heretique Harding Of Pope Honorius Now at length M. Iewel you say that which hath some face of truth For Honorius in deede fel into the heresie of the Monothelites But he fel into it when as yet it was not euidently condemned by the Churche in any general Councel He fel into it but he defended it not and yet the crime of heresie is not properly incurred without a stubborne defence of falsehod Againe he did not only not make any heretical Decree touching the defence of that heresie by the authoritie of the See Apostolike but rather as a publike person he did resist that heresie Platina in Honorio For he induced Heraclius the Emperour to bannishe Pyrrhus the Patriarke of Constantinople and Cyrus the Patriarke of Alexandria who were giltie of the Monothelite heresie How then standeth it together that Honorius did bothe fauour and hate the selfe same heresie Some men considering what he did say that he was falsly accused of the heresie but others thinke rather that in his harte he fauoured the heresie yet bicause the Romaine Churche to witte the Bisshoppes of Ostia of Porto of Preneste of Velitro of Sabini and suche others that hauing their bishoprikes neare there about are moste commonly resident in Rome or are moste easily assembled thither to euery Consistorie with a great number of Priestes of Deacons and of other learned men who are the Councel Cypria in epist ad Clerum vib Rom. and Senate of the Pope bicause I say they are and euer haue benne euen from the beginning men of great experience as it may appeare in S. Cyprians workes and of constancie in the faith as who liued with diuerse Popes one after the other bicause then this reuerend companie were knowen to resiste as wel the Monothelite heresie as al other heresies it standeth wel together that Pope Honorius albeit in his owne person he fauoured that heresie Pope Honorius only burdened vvith the crime of heresie among the Popes yet durst not to publishe it in the cōmon assemblie but contrarywise did there as they gaue him Councel Whereby it came to passe that he both deposed Monothelites openly and yet fauoured their opinion priuily And this is the only Pope who may iustly be burdened with heresie But now consider good Reader the worke of God when he should come to confirme his brethrene that is to say to doo any open thing whereby the other Bisshoppes might be established in their faith then was he constrained to doo that whiche might edifie and not hinder the true faith that God might be iustified in his woordes Math. 16. who sayd to S. Peter vppon this rocke I wil builde my Churche and Hel gates shal not preuaile against it Luc. 22. and thou being once conuerted confirme thy brethrene feede my sheepe Ioan. 21. feede my lambes For when Honorius came to this pointe whether in publike Consistorie the Monothelite heresie whiche taught that there was but one wil in Christe should be allowed or no! then as Platina recordeth the Pope infourmed the Emperour as wel by letters as by messangers that Christe had two willes and that was done by the common assemblie and the letters went as the deede of the See and Churche of Rome whereas in the meane time Honorius was of an other minde within him selfe And they that are about great personages knowe right wel that they doo many times sende many messages and letters through the aduise of their Councel whiche the greate personages them selues would not haue to take place Thus we see a double person in him that gouerneth one which he hath in respecte of his owne priuate minde and iudgement the other which he hath or rather taketh as put vpon him by the publike office which he beareth Now concerning the matter of Succession the publike person is only to be regarded which in Pope Honorius was Catholike For that is the personage whiche may hurte or hinder the Church Of that publike personage Pope Agatho who followed not long after Honorius doubted not to write as it is recited in the sixth general Councel Act. 4. Concil 6. General Act. 4. concerning this very heresie of the Monothelites Apostolicae memoriae meae paruitatis praedecessores dominicis doctrinis instructi ex quo nouitatem haereticam in Christi immaculatam Ecclesiam Constantinopolitanae Ecclesia praesules introducere conabantur nunquam neglexerunt eos hortari atque obsecrando commonere vt a praui dogmatis haeretico errore saltem tacendo desisterent ne ex hoc exordium dissidij in vnitate Ecclesiae facerent vnam voluntatem vnámque operationem duarum naturarum asserentes in vno Domino nostro Iesu Christo The predecessours that were before me seelie man that I am men of Apostolike memorie and instructed in the Doctrine of our Lorde since that the Bishops of Constantinople endeuoured to bring an heretical noueltie into the vnspotted Church of Christe neuer ceased to exhorte them and with earnest meane to admonish them that they would at the least wise by forebearing talke surcease from the heretical errour of their wicked opinion least affirming that there was in our Lord Iesus Christe but one wil and one operation of two natures hereby they should cause strife to beginne in the vnitie of the Church Thus the predecessours of Agatho emong whom Honorius was one did as he reporteth alwaies openly defende the Catholique faith against the Monothelites It is to men knowen perhaps sometimes that the Pope or prince leadeth an euil life as for example in fornication or in Aduouterie Yet so long as their lawes forbid them bothe the menne are of euil example but the lawes are good and holesom and the common Weale is wel prouided for But if once Aduouterie or Fornication should be made lawful by Lawe as some menne say that vserie somewhere is then is the common Weale domaged No heresie euer decreed openly by any of the Popes But sithens the time that S. Peter sate first at Rome God hath wrought this miraculous yea thrise miraculous worke that there was neuer yet any open Assemblie or Synode kepte wherein any Heresie by any one of so many as haue ben S. Peters Successours was euer decreed The publique sentence and iudgement of the See Apostolike in matters of faith was neuer to this daie defiled or defaced with false doctrine That is the Succession which we holde of and whereof S. Augustine said so long time past August in Psalmo contra partem Donati Numerate c. Recken vp by tale the priestes euen from the very seate of Peter and in that rew of Fathers see who succeded other that is the Rocke which the proude gates of Hel doo not ouercome Iewel
Pope Ihon 22. vvas reproued by Gerson and by the schoole of Paris for an Heretike Harding Of Pope Iohn 22. his errour see my Ansvvere to M. Iewels Vievv of his vntruthes before fol. 64. He was reproued for an opinion M. Iewel which he helde before he was Pope many yeres what the opinion was I haue declared before at large to whiche place I referre the reader for a ful answer But when being Pope he would haue confirmed that his wrong opinion that the soules of the iuste lacked the sight of God face to face vntil the daye of Iudgement God tooke him out of this life that al the world might know come who shal to sit in Peters chaier he shal neuer decree any Heresie to be mainteined as the Faith How be it it was not to be accoumpted heresie at that time as yet not being determined by the Church and semed to haue ben holden of certaine olde doctours of the Church as is before said The miracle of God in staying that man from confirming that errour by authentike decree in open Synode ought more to moue you if you were a man whom Gods workes could moue then his priuate erroneous opinion which hurteth no man but him selfe Iewel 132. Petrarcha saith Rome is a sanctuarie of al heresies Harding I neither beleue you nor him I am sure that men of greater authoritie then euer that ryming Poet was of hath said the contrarie But it may be right wel that your sclaunderous penne belieth Petrarcha Ambrosius in Epist ad papam Siricium Cyprian Lib. 1. Epist 3. In Math. cap. 16. Once you name not where he saith it But what so euer Petracha saie S. Ambrose whom we more regarde said that the Church of Rome kepeth alwaies the Apostolike beleefe whole and vndiminished And S. Cyprian saith that infidelitie can not haue accesse vnto the Romaines Iewel Lyra saith that many Popes haue fallen into heresies Harding He saith many as wel princes as chiefe priestes haue falleÌ„ from the faith but not that many haue decreed heresies as to be followed and embraced of others But how truly he saith that many haue fallen from the faith let him answer to it For I find not those many nor yet M. Iew. him selfe as diligeÌ„t as he is about it Wherin Lyra maie helpe vs for opening the text of holy Scriptures we gladly vse him as for his auctoritie specially touching antiquitie being so late a writer you know how litle weight his worde beareth in the iudgement of the learned And how is it come to passe that Nicolaus de Lyra is now so good an author with you M. Iewel who being a professed Frier in his life time followed the faith of the Romaine Church and beleued the Bishoppe of Rome to be the chiefe Bishop of Christendom and the Romaine Churche to be the head of al Churches Iewel 132. You knovv that Pope Hildebrand as he vvas charged by the Councel of Brixta vvas an aduouterer a Chuâ—che robber a periuâ—ed man a mankiller a Sorcerer and a renegate of the faith Harding I know that you lye I may saie it sauing my charitie rather then your worship For Pope Gregorie the seueÌ„th otherwise before he was Pope called Hildebrandus was a very holy man as Marianus Scotus doth witnesse who liued in the same time Marianus Srotus in Chronicis Pope HildebraÌ„dus persecuted and accused by HeÌ„rie the Emperour Marianus Scotus of Pohe Hildebrand and knew that Henrie the Emperour being enemie to Pope Hildebrand bicause the good Pope warned him of his faultes did procure a false conuenticle at Brixia and caused false accusations there to be laid in against him as he did the like also in Rome it selfe whence the Pope was constrained to flee Videns autem saith Marianus Scotus Henricus papam aufugisse congregatis 30. Episcopis fautoribuss suis in ipsa Romanae vrbis obsidione iussit haberisynoduÌ„ in qua Gregorius papafalsis inauditis criminationibus à fautoribus Henrici fictè compositis absens accusatur Denique dicebant cum prophanum scelestum amatorem discordiae virum sanguinuÌ„ sedem Apostolicam vsurpare per necromantiam Conspirantes ergo qui coÌ„uenerunt in vnum aduersus DominuÌ„ aduersus Vicarium eius Papam Gregorium daÌ„nauerunt eum But Henrie seing that the Pope was fled assembling together 30. Bishops who fauoured his part commaunded a synode to be kept euen as he was at the fiege of the citie of Rome in which Synode Gregorie the Pope being absent is accused of false crimes and such as were neuer heard of the which Henries fautours had purposely forged To be shorte they said he was a prophane man a wicked man a louer of discorde a bloudy man and that he had vsurped the See Apostolike by Necromancie They therefore who had thus assembled them selues together conspiring against our Lorde and against his Vicare Pope Gregorie condemned him If you were but a ciuil honest man M. Iewel you would not take that for a Truth which one enemie saith of an other Hildebrand acquitted by true and indiffereÌ„t historiographers It maie please you to read those Historiographers which wrote without partialitie as Marianus Scotus Platina Lambertus SchafnaburgeÌ„sis and Nauclerus with such like By perusing them you shal finde yourselfe a Lyer and Pope Hildebrand a vertuouse man and one that was zelously bent to correcte such faultes as were in the clergie at that time specially Simonie But though he had ben otherwise it hindereth not oure cause as long as he kepte the same Faith whiche he receiued of his forefathers Iewel Pag. 132. Platina calleth the Popes sometimes in scorne Pontificulos Platina in Romano 2 litle petite Popes sometimes monstra portenta monsters and vnnatural and ilshapen creatures Harding If Platina speake so of some Popes it is the more signe that he either hated the Popes or els that he spake as he thought and that he wrote not for flatterie as sometimes you saye of him I praye you what cause had Platina to flatter with them as with Hildebrand who were so long dead before he was borne And as for those with whom he liued he flattered them neuer a whit as maye appeare by the life of Pope Paulus the second Platina caÌ„not seme to haue flattered the Popes in vvritiÌ„g their liues Wel were then some Popes monsters Verely I thinke so with Platina concerning some few of their liues But euen those that were worste made no breache in the rule of the faith God so prouided alwaies that although Hel gates to wit al vices and al the power of the Deuil were bent against the Popes and the Churche of Rome yet al should not preuaile against the Rocke and true Confession of the Faith which euer hath ben and shal be in the Succession of Peters Chaire Whereupon S. Hierome doubted not to saye Hieron epist ad DamasuÌ„ Cathedrae Petri Communione consocior super illam petram aedificatam Ecclesiamscio I
am ioyned in communion to the Chaire of Peter vpon that Rocke I knowe the Churche is builte Iewel Pope Adrian the fourth vvas vvoont to saye vve succede not Peter in feeding but Romulus in killing Harding Were it true you would haue named your authour Now your saying semeth to procede out of your owne Forge But what if it were true that Pope Adrian said so by waye of complaint This proueth that as some of his predecessours were euil men so alwaies God gaue his grace to some other Popes to disallowe their faultes and yet to continewe their Faith Doctrine and Succession Iewel Pag. 132. And to leane Dame Ioan the vvoman Pope vvith many others mee of like vertue and holinesse as hauing no pleasure in this rehersal Harding There was no such woman Pope and yet God knoweth you take stil great pleasure in the rehersal of a vaine dreame as you doo of many other false tales dreamed first by Martinus Polonus Iewel For as much as M. Harding began this matter vvith Sarisburie to ende it vvith the same Ioannes Sarisburiensis saith In Polya cratico in Romana Ecclesia sedent Scribae Pharisaei In the Church of Rome by Succession sitte the Scribes and Pharisees Harding The matter that I began here to treate of was not of Sarisburie but of your SuccessioÌ„ in Sarisburie for which notwithstanding the huge stuffe you bring you shewe your selfe to haue nothing to saie Touching Ioannes Sarisburiensis if it were so that Scribes and Pharisees sate in the Churche of Rome yet you should be damned for departing from them 3. Reg. 12. euen as Ieroboam was for departing from the Chaire of Moyses You are bound to communicate in Doctrine with the chiefe Chaier what soeuer they be that sit in it For Christe bad vs kepe that Matt. 23. which they commaunde Now as the Scribes and Pharisees sitting in the Chaire of Moyses did exactly kepe his Succession and witnessed the continuance of that Temple whereunto al the Iewes were bound So the Popes of Rome sitting in S. Peters Chaire do exactly mainteine his Succession and witnesse that to be the true Rocke and Churche whereunto al we are bound to be obedient as sheepe to the chiefe Pastour But sith you are desirous to end this matter begonne as you saye of Sarisburie with Sarisburie whereby you meane the auctoritie of Ioannes Saresburiensis therewith I am right wel contente For your parte that is to say against the Churche of Rome whose faith we professe whatsoeuer be the manners of some great persons in that Churche you allege Iohn of Sarisburie saying that Scribes and Pharisees sitte in the Churche of Rome True it is these wordes be in Iohn of Sarisburie in deede As for the Addition by Succession it is your owne it is not his But you must vnderstand they be not his owne wordes as spoken by him selfe but reported by him as wordes of the common people For being required of Pope Adrian the fourth who was an Englishman in familiar talke whereto for his learning and wisdome he was admitted to declare freely what was commoÌ„ly said abroade of the Pope and of the Churche of Rome among other thinges bruted abroade by waye of complaint specially against the Briberie and coueteousnes of great personages of that Churche he rehersed those wordes out of the Gospel Matt. 23. At the ende of his tale thus he concluded Iohannes Sarisburiensis in Polycratico de curialium nugis lib. 6. cap. â—4 signifiing whose tale he tolde Haec inquam Pater loquitur populus quandoquidem vis vt illius tibi sententias proferam These thinges Father the people speaketh for asmuch as you wil haue me to vtter vnto you what they saie Thus M. Iewel by testimonie of your Ihon of Sarisburie you proue nothing against our Doctrine of Succession but onely put vs in mynd what the common people in those dayes said of the gouernours of the Church If you would with as good sinceritie haue alleged on the other side what good he in the same booke and Chapter reporteth of them as with malice you reherse the euil you should haue laid forth a very good tale for them For immediatly after the wordes before rehersed thus it foloweth there Et tu inquit quid sentis And what is your opinion quod the Pope Thereto answereth Iohn of Sarisburie Angustiae inquam sunt vndique Vereor enim ne mendacij vel adulationis cortraham notam si solus populo contradixero Sin autem reatum vereor Maiestatis ne tanquam qui os in coelum posuerim crucem videar meruisse I am driuen quod he to straightes on euery side For I feare me I shal be noted for a Lyer or a flatterer if I alone be in my tale contrarie to the people Elles if I should saie as they saie I feare the gilte of treason least I seme to haue deserued the pounishment of death being as it were one that haue set my mouth vp against heauen This Preface semeth to conteine the wordes of one that intendeth to vtter the truth plainly and discretely And although there in deede he touche the Popes and the Romaine Clergies faultes freely yet on the other side he confesseth him selfe moued in coÌ„science to speake muche also in the praise of many These be his wordes Vnum tamen audacter conscientia teste profiteor Ibidem quia nusquà m honestiores Clericos vidi quà m in Ecclesia Romana aut qui magis auaritiam detestentur Albeit some be faulty yet one thing my conscience bearing me witnesse I dare be bolde to saie that no where I haue sene Clerkes of more honestie then in the Churche of Rome or that doo more deteste coueteousnes Of such good and vertuous Clerkes there he reckeneth vp some by name At length speaking of the number of the good in general he saith Plurium tanta modestia tanta grauitas est vt Fabriciâ— non inueniantur inferiores quem agnita salutis via modis omnibus antecedunt The modestie and grauitie of the more parte of them is so great that they are founde nothing inferior to Fabricius the noble Romaine of famous memorie for his vertue whom in respecte of that they acknowlege the waie of Saluation which he knew not being an Infidel by al meanes they passe and excelle Then folow these wordes immediatly which are most to our purpose and most worthy of consideration Quia verò instas vrges praecipis cùm certum sit quòd Spiritui sancto mentiri non licet fateor quia quod praecipis faciendum est si non sitis omnes operibus imitandi Nam qui a doctrina vestra dissentit aut haereticus aut schismaticus est For asmuche as you are instant vpon me and wil haue no nay and commaunde me to saie what I thinke sith it is certaine that I maie not lye vnto the holy Ghoste I graunte that what you commaunde vs to doo we must doo although ye be not
seing we are at variance let vs resorte to the very beginning and to the Original which is our Lordes worde and the Apostolike Tradition This was wel said But the Apostolike Tradition was so as Pope Steuen defended and not so as S. Cyprian woulde haue had it And this M. Iewel neither doo you nor can you denie For your selfe I trow wil not allow that they should be baptized againe in your owne Churche that haue ben before baptized in an other Churche which ye accompte for false heretical or schismatical What meant you then to consecrate S. Cyprians errour and to allege his authoritie therein where it ought not to be admitted and allowed But with you the ouersightes of the Fathers the errours of the Greekes the sayinges of heretiques the examples of Schismatiques the obiections of Schoolemen and Canonistes and the pelfe of Gloses is alwaies good stuffe Iewel S. Cyprian saith If the Pipes of the conduite vvhich before ranne vvith abundance happen to faile do vve not vse to searche to the head Harding Yeas if they could faile But in Christes Churche the Pipes can not faile The Pipes of the CoÌ„duite of Christes Church can neuer faile Math. 28. bicause Christe promised to be with his Apostles and thereby with their Successours al daies vntil the worldes ende If the Pipes of Christes grace and of his Churche faile to runne any one daie then is not Christe that daie with his Pastours and teachers and consequently he is not al daies or euery daie with them But if his worde can not be false then the Pipes neuer failed ne shall not faile and that was wel seene in S. Cyprians question For although they in Afrike had cut of the Pipes by force in changing the former custome and Tradition yet in Rome the Pipes ranne stil and therefore Christe was stil with the Bishops of Rome and with the other Bishops who remained in his Communion Example of agreeing in coÌ„munion vvhere is disagreeing in opinion Yea Christe was also with S. Cyprian bicause S. Cyprian departed not from Pope Steuens Communion But he was with S. Cyprian not in that question wherein he dissented from the Pope but in that he consented and agreed with the Pope For he both dissented concerning the particulare case and consented concerning the general bond of vnitie wishing to haue his owne sentence followed but if it were not followed as it was not content to yelde to his brethren rather then to breake of and to make a Schisme For thus he endeth that epistle which he wrote in that argument to Iubaianus Cyprianus Ad IubaianuÌ„ de Haereticis baptizaÌ„d Si quis putatur contentiosus esse nos talem consuetudinem noÌ„ habemus neque Ecclesia Dei. Seruatur à nobis patienter firmiter charitas animi collegij honor vinculum fidei et concordia Sacerdotij If any man be thought to be geuen to strife and debate we haue no such custome nor the Churche of God The Charitie of minde the honour of the societie the bonde of faith and the concorde of Priesthoode is both patiently and firmely keepte of vs. If M. Iewel if before him Luther and Caluine if al the rest of these Gospellers had none otherwise dissented from the Pope and the whole college of Bishops then S. Cyprian did they might haue ben saued as he vndoubtedly is a glorious Martyr in heauen But they imagined the Pipes whereby grace faith and al other giftes are deriued from Christ vnto vs to haue ben broken of for the space of these nine huÌ„dred yeres past deuised with them selues how they might repaire to the head and so might fetche the watter of life vnto vs by new Conduites and Pipes But they were deceiued For after Christe did once set the Pipes a ronning they neuer ceassed nor shal ceasse to ronne til the day of iudgement For the holy Ghost is promised to abide with the Apostles Ioan. 14. Esai 59. The B. of Rome is the successour of Peter Cyprian lib. 4. epi. 2 ad antâ—nianum Luc. 22. and their Successours in aeternum for euer And their Successours are the Bishops And as the Chiefe of the Apostles was S. Peter so S. Cyprian saith of Fabianus who was Bishop of Rome two hundred yeres after S. Peter Cùm Fabiani locus id est cùm locus Petri gradus Cathedrae sacerdotalis vacaret when the place of Fabian that is to say when the place of Peter and the steppe or degree of the Priestly Chaire was voide So that as Peters faith was most specially prayed for and that not only for his owne sake but to the ende he should strengthen and confirme his brethren euen so was euery Bishop of Romes Faith prayed for to the ende euery one might strengthen and confirme his brethren whiche are al Bishoppes in the truthe of the Faith and in the Gouernement of the flocke That Succession of the Bishop of Rome Augu. in in psalmuÌ„ coÌ„t parteÌ„ Donati and of the See of Peter is the Rocke which as S. Augustine saith the proude gates of Hel do not ouercome So he said eleuen hundred yeres past so vntil this howre the thing it selfe proueth so doo we beleeue that it shal be perfourmed by him that promised it vntil the worldes ende bicause it is the Rocke whiche shal euer confesse the true Faith and feede the sheepe of Christ and staye vp the howse of God and confirme al the faithful that leane vnto it Thus haue I confuted M. Iewel your treatise of Succession The Pipe of Christes doctrin hath coÌ„tinued in the catholike Churche onely which I tooke in hande specially to treate of bicause it sheweth most euidently that ye haue no true Churche bicause ye can shew no Pipe or Conduicte which from Christ vntil your Sectes hath stil continued ronning or hath stil deriued his doctrine and grace vnto them of your side It is the Catholike Church whiche you cal the Papistical Church which hath that Pipe and can euidently shew where the streame hath gonne and how it hath ben mainteined from age to age from generation to generation yea from man to man without any interruption Isai 62. Matth. 5. Philipp 2. Matt. 28. Ioan. 14. 16. Esai 59. 1. Timo. 3. Such should the state of the Churche be according to Gods worde where watche men should neuer holde their peace where the citie built vpon the hil can not be hid where the children of light shine like sterres in the middest of the infidelles where Christe is al dayes vnto the worldes ende where the holy Ghoste is for euer teaching al truthe where the piller and sure staye of truthe is visibly seene as with whiche menne be conuersant in this worlde as S. Paule saith where to be shorte Ioan. 21. Christes sheepe are fed of Peter al abiding within the vnitie of his one Folde in this worlde thence and thence only to be transferred vnto the glorious Pasture of life
matter lieth open to many accusations And therefore he would a Bishop to geue no occasion of euil to those that be vnder him * Thus Chrysostome Where with S. Paule first he putteth to silence the Cerdonistes Marcionistes Seuerians Tatians Manichees and al other Heretikes that condemned marriage and said it was an impure thing Secondly he alloweth matrimonie fo farre that he acknowledgeth a maried man may ascend to a Bishops seate Thirdly * Leaft out by M. Iev Bigâ—mie lauful rather then coÌ„mendable leafte out by M. Iev The Bigamie of the gospellers condeÌ„ned by Chrysostom and Paule-StroÌ„pets he putteth Bigamie that it to witte marying an other after the first or a widowe to be lawful rather then commendable * Nowe as wee doo not condemne marriage neither denie but that married menne in the Primitiue Churche and before the Ghospel was so generally receiued as it was at length were and might be called to the dignitie of Bishoprike when scarcetie and lacke of single menne worthy of that rome was founde * so we see the impure Bigamie of our holy gospellers condemned both by S. Chrysostom and S. Paule of whom many being Priestes and as they saye Bishops at lest presuming to occupie that holy seate for custodie of their chastitie after their former olde yokefellowes decease solace them selues with newe strompettes By a better name I would cal them if I wist I should not offend For what woman soeuer coupleth her selfe in such damnable yoking how can she appeare either to be honest or to haue care of her soule health As for the simple that be deceiued by the importunitie and craft of those lurdens as they are not to be borne withal so yet I thinke them to be pitied But if this Defender presse vs with Chrysostome we answer that though Chrysostom graunte that a married man may ascende to the holy seate yet he sayeth not that a man may descend from that holy seate to the Bride bedde For we denie vtterly After holy orders receiued mariage neuer coÌ„pted lauful amoÌ„g catholikes that any man after that he hath receiued holy orders maie marye Neither can it be shewed that the mariage of suche was euer accompted lawful in the catholike Church In deed we know that in Germanie and in EnglaÌ„d and certain other prouinces at dissolute times when the discipline of the Church was shaken of Priestes haue ben maried as we reade of the time in whiche Anselmus was Bishop of Cantorbury Priestes maryed in EnglaÌ„d in the time of Anselmus But that disorder was alwayes by due correction of bishops punished and redressed So that what soeuer Bale Poinet or any other of that filthy railing rable bring out of Huldrike of Auspurg Huntingdonensis Capgraue Chronica Chronicarum or such other obscure and barbarous stories for witnes of priestes marriages seing the same were by good rulers of the Churche at al times controlled and resisted as vnlauful and wicked it is of no force nor auctoritie How why and when maried men were admitted to be priestes and wher the profession of chastitie and absteining from companie of their wiues was required of them and many other poinctes touching the vnlawful mariages of priestes who so euer is desirous to be amply instructed the same I referre to a large treatise written hereof by a lerned man in our owne tonge I thinke not good here to recite the thinges that be so wel treated already Iewel Pag. 164. Here I graunte M. Harding is like to finde some good aduauntage as hauing vndoubtedly a great Number of the holy Fathers of his side c. That Priestes and Votaries maie not marrie The first Chapter Harding The Fathers be on our side by M. Iewels ovvne confessioÌ„ THEN vndoubtedly you haue not the holy Scriptures on your side For the holy Fathers haue neuer in great number determined or weighed against the Scriptures For the same Christ that gaue vs the holy Scriptures gaue vs also Pastours and Doctours as S. Paule teacheth to make perfite the Saintes that is the Christians by their ministerial working and to build vp the body of Christe whiche is his Churche Seing then M. Iewel confesseth that for this point we haue a great number of the Fathers on our side let him make his Moustre of Glosers Summistes al the Canonistes Schoolemen and of his other late petie Doctours whom when they serue vs he calleth the Blacke Garde neuer so great we wil content our selues with the great number of Ancient Fathers And if the Fathers be on our side what remaineth but that the Reader make his choise to whiche side to incline to the olde Fathers of the Auncient Churche of whose holinesse wee are wel assured or to these yong Fathers of this new Churche whose Children do geue vs better witnesse that they be fathers then doth their life that they be holy Wel how great number of holy Fathers so euer we haue on our side certaine it is that M. Iewel wil not yeelde Let it then be considered how he defendeth this point and what pith there is in al that number of the Doctours sayinges whiche he would seme to allege for his purpose As concerning the wordes of my confutation of the Apologie touching this point of the marriage of Priestes and Votaries bicause I knew these married Apostates doo charge vs as hauing an euil iudgement of Matrimonie directly answering the wordes of the Apologie first I commende Matrimonie Heb. 13. To marrie vnlauful in tvvo cases and approue the saying of S. Paule vttered in the Epistle to the Hebrewes in praise of it Neuerthelesse I say that to marrie it is vnlawful in two cases The one is if any person haue vowed continencie the other if any man haue taken holy Orders The first I proue by Scripture and the Fathers the second by the Ordinance of the Churche and also by testimonie of the Fathers Then I answer to the place alleged out of S. Chrysostom who saith that a married man may be promoted vnto the dignitie of a Bishop In discoursing whereupon I shew that the Bigamie of the married Apostates of our time is by sentence of S. Chrysostome vtterly condemned After this graunting that in the olde Church married men vpon good causes were made Bishops I denie that Bishoppes were euer made married men after they were Bishops The foure thinges that in this matter M. Ievvel hath to defende These then be the thinges that here M. Iewel hath to defende First that is is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie Secondly that it is lawful after the taking of holy Orders Thirdly that Bigamie or second marriage is lawful in Priestes Monckes Friers and Nonnes Fourthly that in olde time Bishoppes were married after they had once ben consecrate Bishops These foure if he doo not defende he perfourmeth nothing touching this point but sheweth him selfe to al menne ouercomme though his Doctours allegations besides the purpose be neuer so many VVhat
make vs one Pope who is neither Priestes nor laie maÌ„nes sonne nor any maÌ„nes sonne at al. What a maruelous Prophet then was M. Iewels Damasus that could thus prophecie of so many Popes so long to come after his death and tel who should be their fathers so many yeres before their great GraÌ„dfathers were borne If for some excuse you say that this much you found in Gratian Distinct 56. it caÌ„ not helpe you The printed Gratian hath neither this forme of wordes nor this order of names nor so many Popes names by three For he hameth not Iohn 10. nor Iohn 15. nor Adrian 2. So that you must take it vpon you your selfe and beare the shame of it And what if the book of Gratian had it as you haue alleged Doo you not know that such thinges in Gratian be of no authoritie sometimes which be rehersed vnder this worde Palea Palea Palea good Reader is asmuche to say as Chaffe and where so euer this word Palea Chaffe is put in Gratian by the same it is signified as some doo iudge that the saying immediatly folowing is with litle iudgement infarced and that it is litle worth as Chaffe is litle worth in coÌ„parison of cleane wheate Such Chaffe and vaine fables M. Iewel is dryuen to take holde of to mainteine his brothers filthinesse for lacke of better stuffe And were it true that these Popes or some of them whose names be founde here in Gratians Chaffe were Priestes sonnes yet had he benne a true dealer in this cause he should not so vniustly haue conceeled what the Glose saith in the same place specially seing that he is so wel acquainted with the Glose and furnisheth his great booke specially and aboue al other Doctours with the stuffe of the Glose Thus there we finde Distinct 56. in Glossa Omnia ista exempla intellige de ijs qui in Laicali statu vel minoribus ordinibus orationibus parentum suscepti sunt quando suis parentibus licebat vti vxoribus suis Vnderstande thou al these examples of them that were receiued at Goddes hande by the prayers of their fathers being in the state of laie menne or in the lesser Orders when their fathers might lawfully vse their wiues Thus for any thing you haue brought hitherto is your Great Poste of Priestes Marriages thwited to a pudding pricke As for that whiche after al this you pretende to allege out of AEneas Syluius AEneas Syluius whom you cal Pope Pius whereas at the time when he wrote De gestis Concilij Basiliensis he was neither Pope nor Pius and out of Polydorus Vergilius Polydorus Vergil the late Prebendarie of Poules in London whom in the Chronicles you reporte falsly and laste of al out of fabling Fabian Fabian the late Merchant of London a man of smal learning and of as litle authoritie in these pointes though a special fauourer of your side as it is tolde and therefore the readier to reporte vntruth I am sure menne of meane knowledge wil litle esteme and I accompt it not worth the answering Make the best you can of it thereby perhaps or by some part of it ye may proue that of Married menne some were made Bishops which as I haue oftentimes tolde you we denie not but that Bishoppes or Priestes were euer in any wel ordered Churche permitted to marrie you shal neuer be hable to proue Now that you haue laid your two Principles as you cal them let vs see how substancially you defende your foure pointes aboue mencioned And first that it is lawful to marry after the Vowe of Chastitie and after holy Orders taken shewe vs by what learning or authoritie ye proue it Iewel First of al his obiection of Vovves nothing toucheth the Clergie of England For it is knovven and confessed that the Priestes of England vvere neuer Vâ—taries Yet for further ansvver vve graunte it is reason and conuenient that vvho so hath made a Vovve vnto God should keepe his promise Cyril in Leuitic Lib. 3. Cyrillus saith Si castitatem promiserit seruarâ— non poterit pronunciet peccatum suum If he haue promised 〈…〉 vvovved Chastitie and can not keepe it let him pronounce and confesse his Sinne. Harding How long wil you go about the bush as they say when come you to the purpose These bye matters not touched in my ConfutatioÌ„ haue made your booke great but the same geue euidence that you put more truste in multitude of wordes then in substance of matter If ye had the cleare truthe on your side what needed so many wordes One plaine sentence might haue better serued you That you wander not abroad here once againe I cal you home and require you to leaue your delaies and answer to the very point or to confesse your errour Remember my wordes of the Confutation be these It is not lawful for them to marrie Confutat fol. 73. b. which either haue by deliberate vowe dedicated al manner their chastitie vnto God or haue receiued holy Order Ouer against these my wordes you haue placed in the margent of your booke this note with your starre Defence pag. 163. Vntruthes two together as better appeareth by the Answeare By which you charge my saying with two Vntruthes Of such notes your booke hath great stoare But God be thanked the world seeth you are ryfer of vpbraidinges and sclaunders then of substantial proufes Nowe by your note you haue bounde your selfe to shewe vs that it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie likewise also after the holy Orders taken Before you came to proue either of these two pointes you tel vs that the Priestes of England were neuer Votaries that is to say that they neuer made Vow of single life and chastitie whereby to binde them selues not to marrie Neuer is a long daie M. Iewel Wel be it as it is If they be not Votaries they may marrie say you But answer directly to the point I pray you M. Ievvel ful coldly maketh that but reasonable and coÌ„uenieÌ„t that is necessary May they marrie who haue vowed chastitie Say yea or nay VVee graunte say you it is reason and conuenient that who so hath made a Vowe vnto God should keepe his promise This is somewhat though it be coldely spoken But yet you must come nearer vnto the point You speake generally and faintly We speake not of a Vowe or promise in general If a man make a promise to an other man it is reason and conuenient that he keepe it But how saie you to the vow of chastitie deliberatly made of man or woman to God Is it in any wise necessary to perfourme it or no If it be necessary why speake ye so coldly it is reason and conuenient What meane you by your reason and conuenience Is it any more but that if a Moncke or a Frier feele him selfe moued with luste he shal by and by take a woman vnder pretense of Wedlocke and so
man in the time when the faith was persecuted by heathen Tyrātes made promise and profession of Idolatrie Thurificati onely by casting a litle frankencense into the Fier when they vttered no wordes of Idolatrie at al. Many other such exāples might here easily be rehersed by which it is declared that a man in some cases voweth promiseth and professeth a thing good or euil in acte and deede where wordes of Vowe promise or professiō be not spoken And to this sense the common English prouerbe if it may be applied to so sad a matter leadeth vs As good is a becke as a Dieu garde wherby is meant a cōsent Vovv of Chastitie made in silence Concil Ancyran cap. 10. geuen by dede without worde But what neede I to proue this by examples The plaine texte of the tenth Canō of the most auncient Coūcel of Ancyra aboue rehersed putteth this matter out of doubte Where it is said of Deacons that if when they receiued the Bishops laying on of hand vpon them they required not licence to marrie but helde their peace thereby professi continentiā be the wordes of the Councel hauing vowed promised or professed to continew in Chastitie in case afterward they married they should geue ouer the holy ministerie Lo there by taking the holy order only without wordes of a Vowe expressed the promise and Vow of Chastitie is by those learned Fathers pronounced to be made Neither is the partie that after holy Orders taken marrieth excused by that he ceaseth from the ministerie The cessation from the ministerie is a pounishement in the courte of man there remaineth to such a one an other pounishmēt in the courte of God for his breache of promise Thus it is cleere that the Priestes of England were Votaries as wel as other Priestes of the Latine Church be which M. Iewel only vpon warrant of his owne auctoritie denieth Sith then it is so Reader that M. Iewel keepeth him selfe a luffe of and wil not come to the point wherein the controuersie lyeth not being hable in deede to iustifie the marriage of them that haue taken holy Orders or otherwise haue made Vow of Chastitie I thinke it good here briefly to reherse the summe of his allegatiōs wherwith he hath blotted so much paper about this matter The summe of M. Ievvels allegations for proufe of priestes marriages Hauing denied the Priestes of Englād to be Votaries he bringeth in sayinges of Fathers reporting that Virginitie is a harde thing and that it is not in our choise but the mere gifte of God Which thing as it maketh nothing to the present purpose so I graunte to be true We ought not to choose that state of life but vpon good trial of our selues But when we haue taken that yoke vpon vs it behoueth vs to pray for the assistance of Gods grace and to vse al suche good meanes by whiche we may atteine helpe towardes the perfourmance of our promise Then he allegeth other sayinges counseling those that either can not or wil not keepe Chastitie to take the remedie that God hath ordeined that is to say to marrie Which counsel is vnderstanded to be geuen vnto them that haue made no Vow at al to the contrarie After this he bringeth in certaine testimonies speaking in fauour as they seeme of marriage after a Vow of Chastitie taken out of S. Cyprian S. Augustine Epiphanius S. Hierome In al which places those holy Fathers are to be vnderstanded to speake of them that haue made a secret or simple Vow as they terme it and not a Solemne Vow Neither doo they allow such marriages simply Bonifac. 8. in c. vnico de voto in 6. The determination of the Churche in vvhat case of a Vovve made marriage holdeth in vvhat case it holdeth not For vvhat reason marriage holdeth in the case of a Simple Vovv othervvise in the case of a Solemne Vovve but in cōparison of a woorse iniquitie The matrimonie of such is not to be dissolued yet is the breache of their promise a mortal sinne Now so it is by determinatiō of the Church that a Solēne Vow is made at the professiō of any approued Religiō and at the taking of holy Orders and by whom such Vow is made they may not go backe to marriage neither if they marrie doth that marriage holde but is taken for none In the case of a simple Vowe marriage standeth for good and may not be dissolued albeit the partie who Vowed and promised the contrarie by contracting marriage as I said sinneth mortally The reason hereof is this In a Simple Vowe there is made but a bare Promise and the dominion of the thing which is promised remaineth stil with him that promiseth But in a Solemne Vowe there is not onely a promise but also a deliuerie made of the thing that is promised asmuche to say of him selfe and so there is also an acceptation and a possession to the interest of Christ taken of the Churches part This is the differēce betwixt both And it is a thing natural and apperteining to the lawe of al nations that a bare promise be of lesse efficacie then the exhibitiō surrendre and deliuerie of Possessiō of the thing that is promised He that hath promised one a howse or a portion of Lande hath not yet taken away from him selfe the dominion of the thing Wherefore if afterward he make deliuerie of it to an other the deliuerie shal stand for good Yet to the other he is bounde to make recompense which commonly is iudged to be the valour of the thing promised And he that hath now deliuered vnto an other a howse or Lande hath altogether depriued him selfe of the dominion thereof neither can he now geue it to an other as being an others thing The case is like in the Vowe of Chastitie which is a certaine cōtracte betwen man and God And reason it is that what we acknowlege ourselues bound to perfourme vnto mā in a worldly cōtract we be bound to perfourme no lesse vnto God in this spiritual cōtracte The bare promise made to God differeth much from the exhibiting and therfore if after a simple Vow of Chastitie which cōsisteth in promise only a man deliuer his body to another which thing is done by Matrimonie the deliuerie standeth firme and good But if he geue vp also his owne body to keepe chastitie vnto God and by entring into some Religion or by taking Orders now he can not dispose of it otherwise as not being in his dominion neither if he attempt it shal it stand for good This muche touching the diuersitie of a Simple and Solemne Vow I thought necessary to be said in this place This much being weighed and considered it must appeare certaine that the places which M. Iewel allegeth out of S. Augustine affirming the mariages of such as marrie after the Vow of chastitie to be true mariages and to be such as may not be dissolued are truly vnderstanded of
Castro maketh quite against you Viruesius Philippica 19. and your Brethren For this is that Viruesius writeth If a man haue vowed saith he and can not conteine and hauing assaid al meanes yet preuaileth not in this case I would aduise him to prouide for his safetie by Marriage not doing it of his owne head but by the authoritie of the Pope Thus he In which wordes he geueth but his priuate aduise referring the partie so standing in danger vnto the Pope for dispensation of his Vowe Your Brethren on the other side notwithstanding their solemne Vowe as being some Religious personnes some Priestes ronne hedlong to Marriage as they cal it hauing assaied fewe due meanes or none at al for the obteining of Chastitie neuer calling better menne then them selues to counsel nor sticking for any dispensation for their Vowe to be had at al. To say the least of both his aduise is sober and leaneth to ObedieÌ„ce these men seeme to play the merchants venturers their dooing is rash comtemptuous and altogether disobedieÌ„t But how farreforth this aduise of Viruesius is to be allowed whether the case be to be admitted that by Praiers fasting by streight discipline and chastisment of the flesh by any asking seking knocking nor by any meanes a man hauing deliberatly and deuoutly made a Vowe of continencie with intent the more expeditely and purely to serue God can not obteine at his mercie the necessarie gifte of continencie and whether if through frailtie and negligence perhappes he fal he shal not repent and study how to amend that he hath done amisse and continually fight against temptatioÌ„s but streight waie take a woman and marrie and how safe it is for a man in this case to sue vnto the Pope for a dispensation of his Vowe and whether when he hath married he be sure to be deliuered from al temptations of incontinencie these pointes I wil not take vpon me here to determine but leaue them to the consideration of their consciences that be learned in these cases Novv M. Ievv coÌ„meth to the point at length and haue the true feare of God At length M. Iewel commeth vnto that point which he should haue answered long before At length I say bicause after that he hath filled fiue leaues of Paper with diuers sayinges of the Doctours gathered out of his Notebookes and heaped together to litle other purpose then to shewe of a great booke Now then thou shalt here see good Reader how substantially he proueth it to be lawful for Priestes to marrie and that the Marriage of Priestes hath ben accompted lawful As concerning Monckes and Friers and Nonnes that haue taken the vaile of their profession they must defend their Marriages or rather yokinges aswel as they can them selues for this man hath nothing to say in their defence If he had out it should to help to make vp the heape neither could he be spareful of it fauouring the cause so much as he doth That then being leaft as a desperate cause let vs see what good stuff he bringeth for the Mariages of Priestes Iewel M. Harding vnvvares falleth into the same Negatiue Diuinitie that hâ—sâ— often and so muche abhorreth For thus he saith vve denie vtterly that any man after that he hath receiued holy Orders maie marrie Neither can it be shevved that the Marriage of suche vvas euer accompted lavvful in the Catholique Churche If this tale be true then be al the Greeke Priestes Votaries as vvel as the Latines Distinct 31. Quoniam in Margine But it is noted vpon the Decrees Graeci continentiam non promittunt vel tacitè vel expressè The Greekes make no promise of continent or Single life neither secretly nor expressely Harding If you take them to be Votaries In vvhat sense are the Greke Priestes Votaries that make a Vowe neuer to marrie for time to come so are the Greeeke Priestes Votaries by law of the Greeke Churche as wel as the Latines but if you accompte them to be Votaries that Vowe vtterly to absteine from the vse of a woman whether they had wiues before they tooke holy Orders or otherwise in this sense the Greekes are not ne haue not ben Votaries generally that is to say in al places and at al times as the Latines were and yet be as among whom more austeritie of life hath alwaies ben vsed M. Iewels chiefe autoritie is a marginal note vpon the Glose So that in this respecte your Argument is naught and concludeth not As for your marginal note it is besides the texte and therfore of smal authoritie It is a signe ye lacke good euidence for this matter fith that for proufe of it ye are driuen to serue your selfe of such weake stuffe Albeit the same note is thus to be vnderstanded that they of the East Church what time they were promoted to holy Orders made no promise to absteine from the companie of their lawful wiues vnto whom they were married before they tooke suche Orders And so muche you might haue found in the texte Distinct 31. Quoniam being a Decree of the sixt synode that you needed not to haue scraped helpe out of the bookes margent Now shew vs your better stuffe For this is litle worthe Iewel Concil Ancyran cap. 9. In the Councel holden at Ancyra it is concluded thus Diaconi quicunque ordinantur si in ipsa Ordinatione protestati sunt dixerunt velle se Coniugio copulari quia sic manere non possunt Hi si postmodum vxores duxerint in Ministerio maneant propterea quòd Episcopus illis licentiam dederit Deacons as many as be ordered if at the time of receiuing Orders they made protestation and said that they vvould marrie for that they finde not them selues hable so to continue vvithout Marriage if they aftervvard marrie let them continue in Ministerie for asmuch as the Bishop hath geuen them licence M. Harding I trovv vvil not denie but Deaconship is one of the holy Orders Harding Ansvver vnto the Canon of the CouÌ„cel of Ancyra This proueth not that Deacons did marrie nor that any Bishop euer gaue them licence to marrie but onely that if they would marrie the Bishops licence therto obteined they should not be remoued from the ministerie Whether any with licence married or no you are not yet hable to shewe And whereas no deacon might marrie but such as had made protestation that he would marrie before he tooke holy Orders and had obteined leaue of the Bishop so to doo by this we vnderstand that for a Deacon to marrie simply to speake and of it selfe it was vnlawful For otherwise what needed protestation leaue and licence What so euer is lawful may be done without protestatioÌ„ or licence and what may not be done but with protestation and licence the same of it selfe is vnlawful And so my saying by this testimonie is confirmed it is not confuted Againe it is to be considered that by this Councel a
to marrie a wife or no here I dispute not I confesse the Single state of the Clergie not to be Iuris Diuini expressely but Iuris Ecclesiastici positiui And to say that the Pope may in no case at al dispense with a Priest of the West Churche or with a religious person to marrie it is against the Diuines against the Canonistes and against the authoritie Raymeriâ— made kiÌ„g of AragoÌ„ of a MoÌ„ke and married by dispensation See the historie of Franciscus Tarapha which the Churche of Rome hath in some cases vsed de facto as they speake as it is knoweÌ„ by the example of Raymeris the king of Aragon in Spaine with whom about the yere of our Lorde 1160. the Pope dispensed yea he compelled him as we reade to geue ouer the Profession of his Religion and to marrie whiche is more then to dispense with a secular Priest for sauing of Christian bloud and for the necessary disposition of that kingdom The like example happened in the kingdome of Pole Casimirus the onely that remained a liue of the kinges bloud Munster Cosmographiae lib. 3. in Schlesia lib. 4. in Polonia Mart. Cromerus being a Moonke and a Deacon by sute of the Nobles of that realme Dispensation of the Pope obteined was taken out of his monasterie of the Order of Cisterce made Kinge of Pole and married But suche a singular case maketh no common rule Againe where a thing is not done but by special dispensation the dispensation it selfe argueth the same of it selfe that is to say considered without dispensation to be vnlawful Therefore my Assertion that no man may marrie after holy Orders receiued and that such Marriage was neuer accompted lawful in the Catholique Churche standeth true as before Iewel Athanasius saith Athanas ad Dracontium Multi quoque ex Episcopis matrimonia non inierunt Monachi contrà Parentes liberorum facti sunt Many of the Bisshoppes he saith not al but many haue not married By vvhiche vvoordes he geueth vs to vnderstande that some haue married contrarievvise Monkes haue becomme fathers of Children Harding This testimonie is bodged with your forged Parentheses Whereby you signifie that of it selfe and without addition of your owne wordes it helpeth you litle Al standeth vpon trial of the translation If you could haue alleged S. Athanasius owne wordes as he wrote in Greeke a right answere might soone be made The translatour litle thinking of their sleightes that be Proctours for the Marriages of Votaries had rather hauing respect to the finenesse of the Latine so to turne it then otherwise If the place were thus latined Multi ex Episcopis matrimonia non inierant or non habuerunt Monachi contrà parentes liberoruÌ„ extiterunt whereby is signified that many Bishops had neuer contracted Marriages and that some Monkes had ben fathers of children if the place had thus benne turned as I suppose the Greeke hath it would haue serued you to no purpose For I graunt you that some bishops haue had wiues but before they were made Bishops as Spiridion S. Gregorie Nazianzenes father and Gregorie of Nyssa S. Basils brother and that some Monkes were fathers of children whiche they begote in lawful wedlocke before they entred into that profession and order of life Albeit if we allowed you this translation for good and true according to the Greeke yet of these woordes you can not conclude that by iudgement of S. Athanasius the Marriages of bishops are accompted lawful by the circuÌ„stance of the place in that Epistle to Dracontius S. Athanasius may seeme to speake those wordes in dispraise of certaine Bishops and Monkes and not at al in their commendation and so you ought not to allege it for an allowed example But hereof we shal be more assured if they of Basile wil sette foorth that Fathers workes in Greeke Iewel Pag. 176. Cassiodorus vvriteth thus Cassio li. 6. cap. 14 In illo tempore ferunt Martyrio vitam finisse Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum ducta nuper vxore dum adhuc quasi sponsus esse videretur At that time they say Eupsychius the Bishop of Caesaria died in Martyrdom hauing married a vvise a litle before being as yet in manner a nevv married man Harding A man would thinke if this wil not serue the turne that nothing wil serue A blessed man Eupsychius bishop of Caesaria a holy Martyr married to a wise but a litle before his Martyrdome The writer of the Storie Cassiodorus a noble man and graue Senator of Rome a man of good credite What can a man desire more But phy vpoÌ„ such shamelesse falsifiers O lamentable state A falshod in excusable and in tollerable of M. Ievv where the people of God be coÌ„pelled to heare such false Prophetes What wil he feare to speake in pulpite where he is sure no man shal control him that is not ashamed thus to write in bookes openly published vnto the world which he knewe should not escape the examination of his Aduersaries The truth is good Reader Neither Cassiodorus wrote thus nor Eupsychius was euer Bishop of Caesaria nor of any other place nor so much as a Priest Deacon or Subdeacon The writer of the Storie which we haue of this blessed Martyr Eupsychius is Sozomenus the Greeke Who with the Ecclesiastical Storie of Socrates and Theodoritus was translated into Latine by one Epiphanius Scholasticus out of whiche three Cassiodorus gathered the AbridgemeÌ„t that we haue vnder the name of the Tripartite historie Histor Tripartit lib. 6. c. 14 The place truly reported hath these wordes In illo tempore ferunt vitam finisse Martyrio Basilium Ecclesiae Ancyranae Presbyterum Eupsychium Caesariensem Cappadociae ducta nuper vxore cùm adhuc quasi Sponsus esse videretur They say that at that time Basiliê° a Priest of the Church of Ancyra ended his life in Martyrdom Also Eupsychius the Caesarian of Cappadocia hauing married a wife a litle before and when as yet he seemed to be but a new married man Here is no mencion made that Eupsychius was the bishop of Caesaria The storie as we haue it in Latine of Epiphanius turning calleth him only Eupsychium Caesariensem Cappadociae that is to say Eupsychius a maÌ„ of Caesaria that is in Cappadocia whiche is added to signifie of whiche Caesaria he was for that there was an other famous Citie of that name in Palestina an other likewise in Mauritania and others moe in other countries Sozomenus him selfe who is the authour of the Storie addeth a worde more signifying of what estate and condition he was whereby the opinion of his being the Bishoppe of Caesaria is quite taken awaye For thus he reporteth of him in the Greeke Sozomen lib. 5. c. 11 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. EupsychiuÌ„ Caesariensem Cappadociae PatriciuÌ„ asmuch to say Eupsychius of Caesaria in Cappadocia a nobleman or one of the Lordes of the Citie Thus is Eupsychius whom M. Iewel hath made a Bishop as much as
with any suche care how said the Apostle before vnius vxoris virum that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife Some vnderstand such a one to be signified by these wordes that shal be made a Bishop after his wiues death Albeit he that hath a wife may be as one not hauing And this much he graunted them very wel in consideration of the time 1. Cor. 7. and nature of the thing as the case then stoode And a man may take that thing honestly and lawfully if he wil. For as richesse doo hardly bring a man into the kingdom of Heauen yet often times many riche men haue there entred in so also doth marriage Thus farre goeth the greke in S. Chrysostom and no further touching this matter For immediatly follow not the wordes that M. Iewel buildeth his proufe vpon but other wordes coÌ„cerning an other thing as euery learned man may see in the â—…nted Greeke booke in the 20. leafe the seconde pag. tâ—â— 20. line You might haue sene this in the Greeke M. Iewel or your Greeke Frende for you aswel as you saw that other place of S. Chrysostome by me truly alleged and traÌ„slated where he expoundeth these wordes of S. Paul Tit. 1. ho. 2 The husbande of one wife Which place you wring and wrâ—st very violently to serue your purpose and yet it wil not be M. Ievv in his defence pa. 175. vseth false traÌ„slation and the learned may easily perceiue your false iuggling in it There you wil nedes haue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to signifie the wife that is gonne from her husband by diuorce and therefore you turne it Vxori quae decessit à se whereas you should haue followed the allowed translation that is in vse which hath Defunctae vxori the wife deceassed or departed this life So I haue turned the place in my Confutation according to the Greeke and as the common Latine translation hath Consider therefore how impudently you reproue me without cause First in the margent of your booke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pag. 164. ouer against this testimonie of S. Chrysostom truly translated by me out of the Greeke worde for worde For whereas be â—â—epeth no beneuolâ—nce towarde his wife deceased how can he be a good gouernour You haue set this odious note of reproufe directing it by your sterre vnto the worde deceassed * Vntruthe For M. Harding fowly mistaketh S. Chrysostomes meaning And there again immediatly * Vntruth standing in false exposition Not being content with this in your teâ—te page 174. lin 3. you say further Those wordes M. Harding in his translation hath purposely falsified I haue not purposely falsified them M. Iewel for they be not myâ—â— but they be the wordâ—â— of the common trâ—â—slation and the same iâ— according to the Greeke For thâ— verbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth not to departe away by diuorce as you haue violently turned it but simply to departe or goe awaye and sometimes as in this very place to departe out of this life You might haue learned so much of the common Greeke Lexicon VVhat secoÌ„d marriage not forbiddeÌ„ by the lavves Now that S. Chrysostome is so to be vnderstanded S. Chrysostome him selfe clearely sheweth in wordes of the same sentence there For whereas he speaketh of that second marriage which he confesseth not to be forbidden by the lawes what other second marriage meaneth he but that when as a man marrieth againe after the deceasse of his first wife For I trow you wil not say that the lawes after Christes comming among Christian men permitted a man to marrie againe his wife being aliue and so to haue two wiues at once specially in the case which your translation importeth that is when the wife is not put away for Aduoutrie of her parte but departeth from the husband which she may not do but for aduoutrie of his parte It is not likely S. Paule would debarre a man from comming vnto the dignitie of a Bishop that had two wiues at once For such a one excepte he repented and had put awaye from him one of them was not admitted to be made a Christian man What trow ye that he required not a farrâ— moâ—â— pâ—rfection in him that was to be made a Bishop Thus you see good reason why Ambrosâ—â—s-Câ—â—ildâ—leâ—sis that learned man traÌ„slated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for that is S. Chrysostoms word and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as you haue noted in your bookes margent by this worde Defunctae and why I turned it the wife disceassed You may now of your courtesie take backe againe your bitter reproches of fowle mistaking of false exposition of purposed falsifying to your selfe For these special qualities be proued to be yours they be not myne For two other testimonies in proufe of Priestes Marriage M. Iewel craueth helpe at Erasmus and Cornelius Agrippa Thus he saith Iewel Erasmus saith The Priestes of the Greeke Church this daie not vvithstanding their Orders marrie vviues The like vvriteth Cornelius Agrippa against the Iouanians Harding Erasmus and Cornelius Agrippa Erasmus and Cornel Agrippa be menne of smal credite God wote in this cause which in their time they fâ—uoâ—red as much as you do now It is coÌ„monly reported you know for a vaine shifte of a theefe to say Aske my fellow whether I be a theefe or no. Herein we are moued with the authoritie of these two smatterers of your Gospel in their daies but newly brocâ—ed no more then if we heard Frier Luther Monke Hâ—pâ—r Peter Martyr the regulare Chanon of S. Augustines order and suche other married Apostates to speake a good worde in fauour of their vnlawful yokinges How be it the truth is both Erasmus and Cornelius Agrippa belye the Greeke Churche herein as the Doctours of the Sorboâ—e in Paris haue in their Censures againste Erasmus truely declared For by the lawe it was neuer nor yet is to this day lawful in the Greeke Churche for Priestes to marrie wiues after that they haue taken the holy Order of Priesthoodâ— Ieâ—â—l Likevvise Cardinal Caietâ—nâ— saith Nec ratione nec authoritatâ— probari potest Caietan in Quod libet quod absolute loquendo Sacerdos peccet coÌ„traheÌ„do matrimonius â–ª It can not be proued neither by reason nor by aâ—thâ—ritie speaking absolutely that a Priest offendeth God 〈◊〉 marrying a vvife Harding Cardinal Caietane hath his errours for which he hath ben reproued and confuted We are not bound to mainteine what so euer he saith How be it this saying of his seemeth to haue no great errour VVhere of is it that the Marriage of Priestes in the vvest Church is vnlavvful Statute of the Churche and Vovvannexed so it be vnderstanded as he meant There be two thinges that make the marriage of Priestes in the most Church vnlawful the Sâ—… of the Church and the Vow annexed The Statute and coÌ„stitution of the Church bindeth clerkes receiuing holy Orders neuer to marrie As touching
of Christes flesh the onely meane of Resurrection to life And therefore your long talke is to no purpose which you vtter in this place They shal liue by the spirite of Christe who gaue them Faith and Charitie But doth not therefore S. Iohn speake also of real eating as though one effecte may not be wrought by diuers meanes concurring thereunto Ego saith Cyrillus id est Cyrill in Iohā li. 4. cap. 15. corpus meū quod comedetur resuscitabo eū I wil raise him that is to say my body which shal be eaten shal raise him Thus you see plainely that touching this point no lesse Clerke then Cyrillus teacheth the same that I said which you haue vniustly and rashly controlled as you haue done the reste of the Catholike Doctrine That matters of faithe and ecclesiastical causes are not to be iudged by the Ciuile Magistrate The. 14. Chapter Iewel Pag. 637. That a Prince or magistrate maie not lavvfully calae Prieste before him to his ovvne seate of Iudgement or that many Catholique and godly Princes haue not so done and done it lavvfully it is most vntrue Harding I haue tolde you M. Iewel Confut. Fol. 299. ae that the duetie of Ciuil Princes consisteth in Ciuil maters and euer said that Bishoppes ought to be obedient to Princes in suche cases whither so euer they cal them And if they make any temporal Decree the Bishoppe who hath temporal goodes vnder the Prince must obey without grudge Confut. Fol. 302. ae or gaine saying so farre as the Decree standeth with the honour of God But that in Ecclesiastical causes and maters of Faith mere temporal Princes haue any authoritie of them selues to cal Bishoppes and Priestes to their Seates of Iudgement or euer did it lawfully we vtterly denie Ambrosius lib. 5. Epist 32. Priestes only ought to be iudges ouer Priestes by Theosius S. Ambrose said to the Emperour Valentinian Nec quisquà m contumacem iudicare me debet quum hoc asseram quod augustae memoriae patertuus non solùm sermone respondit sed etiam legibus suis sanxit in causa fidei vel ecclesiastici alicuius ordinis eum iudicare debere qui nec munere impar sit nec iure dissimilis Haec enim verba Rescripti sunt Hoc est Sacerdotes de Sacerdotibus voluit iudicare Quinetiam si aliâs quoque arguerelar Episcopus morum esset examinanda causa etiam hanc voluit ad Episcopule iudicium pertinere Neither any man ought to iudge me as stubborne seing I affirme that whiche your father of most renoumed memorie not onely answered in worde but also established by his lawes that in a case of faith or any ecclesiastical order he ought to be iudge that is neither vnequal in office nor vnlike in right or authoritie For these are the wordes of the Rescripte That is he would Priestes to be iudges of Priestes And also if otherwise a Bishop were reproued and a cause concerning behauiour and manners were to be examined he would this cause of manners also to apperteine to the Bishoppes iudgement Vpon these wordes of Theodosius alleged and allowed by S. Ambrose An argument prouing that a Ciuile Magistrat maie not be iudge oner Priestes in causes ecclesiastical and matters of Faith thus I reason with you M. Iewel He can not be iudge of Bishoppes and Priestes nor cal them to his seate of Iudgement in Ecclesiastical causes and maters of Faithe that is vnequal in office or vnlike in right and authoritie But the Prince is vnequal to the Bishop in office and vnlike vnto him in right and authoritie For he hath no right nor authoritie to sacrifice to preache to binde to loose to excommunicate and minister Sacramentes Therefore the Prince can not be iudge of Bishoppes and Priestes nor cal them to his seate of Iudgement in any ecclesiastical cause or mater of Faith Againe no man hath authoritie ouer his superiour But the Bishop in maters of Faithe and Ecclesiastical causes is superiour to euery Prince Therefore in those causes the Prince hath no authoritie ouer the Bishop And if he haue no authoritie ouer him he can not cal him to his seate of iudgement Furthermore were it true that the Prince were equal with the Bishop in Ecclesiastical causes and matters of faith yet could he not cal him to his seate of iudgement ff ad S. Trebel L. ille § Tēpestiuum quia par in parem non habet potestatem bicause the equal hath no authoritie or power ouer his equal But to see M. Iewels arte in facing out this mater let vs consider the authorities that he bringeth to proue his purpose And bicause he blaseth this saying in the toppe of his margent with great letters VVhat it is to be conuēted before a Magistrate Spiegelius in verbo conuenire A Bishop conuented before the Magistrate let vs first define what it is to be conuented before a Magistrate The lawiers saie Conuenire est aliquem in ius vocare To conuent a man is to cal him into the lawe and so Conueniri coram magistratu est in ius vocari à magistratu to be conuented before a magistrate is to be called into the lawe by the magistrate To cal a man into the lawe is a iudicial acte proceding of superiour authoritie in him that is iudge both of the partie so called and also of the cause wherefore he is called As if the Maior of London would conuent any of the Citizens he must both haue iurisdiction ouer that Citizen and also authoritie to iudge in that cause for whiche the Citizen shal be conuented But no ciuil magistrate hath authoritie by vertue of his temporal office to be iudge our Bishoppes in ecclesiastical causes as it is before proued and shal hereafter appeare Therefore no temporal magistrate can conuent any Bishoppe or Priest before him in any Ecclesiastical cause But let vs heare M. Iewel Cod. de Episcopis et clericis L. Nullus Iewel Pag. 637. Iustinian the Emperour him selfe vvho of al others most enlarged the Churches priuileges saith thus Nullus Episcopus inuitus ad ciuilem vel militarem iudicem in qualibet causa producatum vel exhibeatur nisi princeps iubeat Let no Bishop be brought or presented against his vvil before the captaine or Ciuil Iudge vvhat so euer the cause be onlesse the Prince shal so commaunde it Harding Seing Iustinian as you saie of al others did most enlarge the Churches Priuileges is it likely that he would most of al others breake them And whereas he made a lawe Authent 83. Coll. 6. vt Clerici apud proprios Episcopos that Clerici apud proprios Episcopos conueniantur primùm Clerkes shoulde be conuented first before their owne Bishoppes in causa pecuniaria in a money mater and afterwarde before the Ciuil Magistrate if either for the nature of the cause or for some other difficultie the Bishop could not ende it yet he
of Infantes necessarie fol. 336. a. Bastard vvorkes printed with good authours fol. 58. b. Baudie Bale vvorthily so called fol. 37. Beno parcial holding vvith the Emperour against the Pope fol. 57. a. S. Bernard reiected by M. Ievv fol. 12. a. BereÌ„garius vvordes as he laie dying 105. b. his heresie coÌ„demned fol. 105. a Beza persuaded Poltrot to kil the Duke of Guise fol. 85. a. Bigamie lavvful rather then commendable fol. 279. b. Bishoppes only in Councelle haue sentence definitiue fol. 99. a. Bishoppes not doing their dueties are yet Bishoppes fol. 181. 182. Bishoppes and Priestes different fol. 133. b. Bishoppes be Bishoppes though they be negligent fol. 181. a. A Bishop aboue a Priest fol. 235. b. The Bishop of Rome is the Successour of Peter fol. 273. a. A Bishop is not hable to doo his duetie the better for that he is married fol. 309. b. Blame a worde of honest meaning changed by M. Iew. in to Handle a word of filthy meaning fol. 121. a. Brentius the first deuiser of laying together the Aduersaries sharpe vvordes fol. 25. b. Brentius chargeth Bullinger vvith sharpe speache fol. 26. a. Brentius the authour of the heresie of the Vbiquitaries fol. 116. b. Browne the head Minister of the Puritanes fol. 336. a. Brunichildis Quene of FraÌ„ce fol. 382. a C. CAnonical Election of M. Iewel to the See of Sarisburie fol. 232. a. Capon Bishop no Protestant fol. 243. a. The Catholique Church fol. 272. 273. 274. Catholike vvhat by LirineÌ„sis fol. 124. b. Catholique Church staÌ„ding in two personnes by M. Ievvel fol. 126. a. Cathecumenus interpreted by M. Ievvel an heathen fol. 342. a. Celestinus Pope sclaundered fol. 253. b. Chams broode fol. 37. a. Character vvhat it signifieth in the Sacramentes fol. 268. a. Christopher Goodmans Traitours fol. 84. b. The Church standeth in multitude of personnes fol. 125. b. 126. Christ is the Rocke and Peter is the Rocke and hovv eche fol. 174. b. Church a plainer teacher then the Scriptures fol. 328. Christ a consecrated prieste fol. 3 2. b. Christ touched of vs in the Euchariste fol. 340. a. Christes bodie receiued of vs vvith mouth fol. 341. a. Churche hovve it is resolued in doubteful cases fol. 352. The clergie of this nevv Congregation vvhat vvorthy menne it hath fol. 262. b. Clerkes bounde to Continencie fol. 279. a. Communion in one or bothe kindes fol. 343. b. in sequent b. Communicatorie letters fol. 223. b. Concupiscence vvithout consent is not properly sinne fol. 337. a. CoÌ„tinuance of the Church vvithout intermission fol. 31. a. 89. 90. 91. 92. Councel of Laterane a great assemblie fol. 105. a. Councelles of later time in authoritie fol. 108. 109. a. b. Councelles not contrarie one to the other fol. 109. b. Councelles later preferred before the former fol. 114. b. 115. a. Concupiscence in married menne vvithout vvhiche generation is not perfourmed is an il thing fol. 283. a. Consecration of a Bishop fol. 240. b. Confession of sinnes necessary fol. 274 b. 275. 276. 277. Contradictions of M. Ievvel fol. 98. a. 101. b. Cranmar no Successour of S. Thomas fol. â—04 a. Cranmar hovv dealt vvithal for heresie and treason fol. 380. b. Cyrillus falsified by M. Ievv fol. 280. a. Cyprian nipped fouly by M. Iewel fol. 269. a. Cyprian alleaged by M. Iew. in an il cause fol. 271. b. D. DAmasus made by M. Iewel to write of thinges done after his death fol. 287. a. Degradatio fol. 7. a. Deposition of the Clergie what it is and how fol. 69. b. 70. 71. Dioscorus coÌ„deÌ„ned by Bishops not by the Ciuil magistrate fol. 72. 73. Dissensions among the ProtestaÌ„tes fol. 33. 34. 35. 151. 152. Donatistes errour renevved by M. Ievvel fol. 92. a. Dorman defended fol. 295. a. Double holinesse fol. 203. b. Drinke ye al of this in vvhat sense it vvas spoken fol. 343. b. E. ERasmus against the Protestantes fol. 163. b. Erasmus and Agrippa belie the Greke Church touching priestes marriage fol. 307. a. Ephrem praied for the healpe of Saintes and to Saintes fol. 364. b. Errour of S. Cyprian fol. 271. b. Errour of Pope Iohn 22. vvhat was it fol. 64. b. Errours that M. Ievvel maie be induced to acknovvledge fol. 77. a. Errours the greatest that M. Ievvel could find in my bookes fol. 77. b. Euchariste ministred to Children at Baptisme fol. 241. a. F. FAithe in England made changeable fol. 23. a. Faith without workes fol. 369. b. Faithe of the later thousand yeres as good as that of the first fiue hundred yeres fol. 94 b. Faithful wiues haue ben cause of the couersion of their vnfaithful husbandes fol. 315. a. Fathers charged by M. Iew. with ouersight for zele and heat fol. 295. b. Figuratiue bodie and figuratiue eating fol. 333. a. Fisher Bishop of Rochester and Luther compared fol. 108. Fleshe is a meane whereby grace passeth into the Soule fol. 339. a. Formosus Pope fol. 139. b. Fornication how it is punished in the Clergie fol. 69. 70. 71. Fornication euer pounished by the Churche fol. 81. Fruite of the Vine fol. 353. b. G. GErmanie for many partes remaining Catholike fol. 96. a. Gerson impudently belied by M. Iewel fol. 64. a. 100. b. 101. a. b. GoodmaÌ„s traiterous writing fol. 14. b. Gospel commeth vnto vs by Tradition fol. 326. b. Gratians wordes alleged by M. Iev for the CouÌ„cel of Carthage fol. 59. b. Grace necessary to the kepiÌ„g of the commaundementes fol. 366. b. Gregorie Nazanzenes saying touching a married Bishop expounded fol. 61. b. 313. b. H. HEad of the Churche one fol. 136. b. 137. seq Henrie of Luxenburg how he died fol. 57. b. Henrie the eightes bodie bruted to be taken awaie fol. 140. a. Henrie the sixt his body taken vp fol. 140. a. Heretiques it booteth not to striue with them fol. 215. b. Heretiques haue not to doo with Scriptures fol. 216. a. Heresie hath idolatrie annexed fol. 261. b Hildebrand Pope 57. b. acquited by graue writers fol. 256. b. 257. a. Hierome of Prage heretique recanted fol. 104. a. Hieromes place ad Euagrium expounded fol. 165. b. 166. 167. Hilarie a wicked man saincted by M. Iewels Canonization fol. 173. a. S. Hilaries verdite of S. Peters preeminence fol. 173. a. S. Hilarie married by M. Iew. fol. 28â— a. Holinesse of degree and of offite fol. 203. b. Honorius Pope no publike teacher of heresie fol. 253. b. 254. seq Hostiensis fowly corrupted by M. Iewel fol. 67. b. Husse said Masse a litle before he vvas burnt fol. 104. a. Hussites heretiques fol. 83. a. b. 103. a. b. Huguenotes of Fraunce Gues of the lovv Countrie fol. 37. a. Hypsistarij vvhat meÌ„ne they vvere fol. 314. a. I. M. Ievvels dignitie and degree no Bishop fol. 39. a. M. Ievvels especial Doctours fol. 8. a. 213. b. 228. b. 229. a. 251. b. M. Ievvels scoffe against Christ him selfe fol. 8. b. M. Ievvel mangleth his aduersaries text in infinite places fol. 9. b. 17. b. M. Ievvels graue sentence pronouÌ„ced against S.