by and by to be confounded as one in truthe and nature the names whereof be confounded Otherwise because the Apostles are in the gospell called disciples an Apostle and a disciple are all one which is well knowen not to be so Likewise though the termes of prieste and bishop were common yeat the thinges were neuer one in so muche that S. Austen making mention of the heresie of Aerius saieth Dicebat etiam praesbiterum ab episcopo nulla differentia secerni debere He saide Ad quod vult Deum haeres 57. also that a prieste ought to be distinguished from a bishop by no difference But what meane you here M. Nowell to talcke so much of the equalitie of bishoppes and priestes being a matter in this place nothing to oure purpose Or if it were seing it might be saide that euen as the olde canons as I declared before in that equalitie which is in priestehode vsed yeat In the 6. chapitre fol. 33. b. the worde Archipraesbiter chiefe prieste and ordeined suche a dignitie in the churche so there is nothing that letteth why in the equalitie of bishoppes and priestes while no one is more bishop or prieste then an other there maie How one bishop is equall to an other not be degrees notwithstanding of superioritie allthough not in the sacrament of ordres which is common to them all yeat in the execution of that power that is conferred thereby But perhappes you be of the opinion youre selfe that there ought to be no difference betwene a bishop and a prieste and therefore are the gladder to snatche occasion by all meanes direct or indirect to vtter youre minde therin Nowe foloweth vpon this grounde laied that bishoppes and priestes be by the first institution and the lawe of God one youre conclusion whereby you will make it appeare that you haue not without cause made mention of this equalitie of bishoppes and priestes So that all bishoppes which be the successours of the Apostles Nowell b. 24. be also praesbiteri that is to saie elders or priestes Whereof it foloweth also that there is an equalitie emongest all bishoppes by goddes lawe as the equall successours of the Apostles And that this is S. Hieromes minde in that place all learned men who haue reade the saide epistle doe well knowe This was not the minde of S. Hierome but is an idle Dorman phantasy of youre owne The learned knowe and to their iudgement I appeale that his minde was here to compare together the state of a prieste and a bishop in the sacrament of holie ordres common aswell to the one as to the other that so he might refell the better the errour of those who helde that deacons ought to be equall to priestes as appeareth by these wordes of his in the beginning of the epistle In this epistle ad Euagri◠Nam quum Apostolus c. For whereas the Apostle teacheth manifestly that priestes and bishoppes be one what eyleth the seruaūt * He meaneth deacons of widowes and tables arrogātly to extoll him selfe aboue them at whose praiers the bodie and bloud of Christe is made Doth not this example put in the consecrating of the bodie and bloude off Christe the whiche the poorest prieste that is hathe as good auctoritie to doe giuen hym in the sacrament of holie ordres as the pope him selfe declare that S. Hieromes minde was no otherwise to make priestes equall to bishoppes but in the only ordre of priestehode common to bothe Yea but yow will saie that the Apostles were equall in all respectes for if you saie not so you can not conclude absolutely as yow doe that all bishoppes their successours be so equall If yow saie so that is but your bare Lib. 1. contra Iouinianum saing only not by the auctoritie of S. Hierome confirmed but most plainly by the same impugned Who in one place saieth that emongest the twelue there was a heade chosen Peter by name and in an other place that Christ made Peter In cap. Marci 14. Note the cause of appointing one heade the maister of his house THAT VNDER ONE SHEPHERD THERE MAY BE ONE FAITH Which is directly against the equalitie that you build vpō But let it be graunted vnto you that the apostles were equal yeat shall not your cōclusion folow for all that For it is to be considered that in the Apostles there is a double respect which is to be weighed nowe of vs. Either we considre them as they were all Apostles or as they were bishoppes As they were Apostles they How the Apostles were all equall were all equall they had all like power to preache and teache thorough out the whole worlde As they were bishoppes and rulers of particuler churches they were all subiect to Petre the chiefe bishop of all As they were Apostles that is to saye generall legates to plante Christes faithe thorough out all the world to founde churchs to preach the word of God finally to gouerne vniuersally in all places where their should come they trāsmitted this right none of thē to their successours but only Peter who was the generall shepherd of all Which is the cause that some of the fathers namely S. Austē saie that the power giuen to Peter was giuē to him In psalm 208. in the persone of the church because it was not giuē to him alone but to all his successours to cōtinue for euer As the Apostles were bishops of particuler places their auctoritie ended not with them but wēt further to the whole church to cōtinue for euer Now to applye this to our purpose howe doe the bishoppes that now are succede the Apostles They succede them as bishoppes not as Apostles For if they succeded them so who seeth not that as the Apostles made lawes absolued excommunicated and ruled thorough out all How bisshoppes be the successours of the Apostles the worlde where so euer they came so might the bishoppes that nowe succede thē doe the like The which thing seing we finde by no recordes sith the apostles time that euer it was practised in the church and if it should it were the nexte waie to disquiet al the worlde and to fill the churche full of schismes and heresies reason it selfe dothe conuince that the ordre taken emongest the Apostles was but by speciall priuileage not appointed to continue for euer or to derogate anie thing from the generall ordre begonne in Peter and appointed to be perpetuall as long as the church shoulde endure To conclude therfore I graunte to you M. Nowell that the Apostles were equall as they were all the generall legates of Christe but not as they had their speciall bishoprikes and charges limited vnto them In which latter sense because the bishoppes that are nowe succede the Apostles in which pointe they were not equall it foloweth against you that all bishoppes be not equall Iff yow will saye that the Apostles were also equall euen in that that
together stande in some stede You go forwarde and saye For the which it pleaseth D. Harding to call the Aricans emongest Nowell ◠25. whom S. Austen Orosius and Prosper with manie other learned and godly bishoppes were schismatikes as those that submitted not their neckes to the pope and folowing Hosius his auctor he saith that Africa cōtinued in this schisme 100. yeares to wit from Boniface the first to Boniface the seconde M. Doctour Harding neuer mentto inuolue S. Austen Dorman Orosius or Prosper in anie schisme with the Africanes For as at this councell it appeareth not in the recordes thereof that Orosius who neuer was bishop but only a prieste and therfore could giue no definitiue voice in the councell that cōsisted of only bishoppes or Prosper either were present so is it more then probable that S. Austen who to the first epistle sent to Bonifacius gaue his consent and subscribed with other wherein they protested to obserue all thinges demaunded by the pope till they coulde get from the Easte the true copies of the councell of Nice it is I saie more then probable that forasmoche as in this latter epistle to Celestinus no mention is made of him at all notwithstanding that he was legat for Numidia his name so famouse his bisshoprike so greate that he sawe in the meane season so muche right in the bishop of Romes cause and so little in the other allthough by no meanes their doinges tended to the vniuersall abrogating of the popes auctoritie that he refused so muche as to put his name or suffer him selfe to be named in those lettres of theirs So that before yow had charged M. D. Harding thus odiously you ought to haue proued that suche a decree was made in the African councell and haue noted to vs the canon then that Orosius and Prosper were present at the making thereof and gaue their consentes therto Last because yow seing that the decree of the councell was not to be founde referred youre selfe to the epistle written to Celestinus yow shoulde haue tolde vs in what wordes there the mention of this decree laie hidden and proued allthough S. Austens name be not there mentioned that yeat he consented therto Againe M. Nowell whē this matter betwene the B. of Rome and the Africanes began first to be called in question it was entreated with suche humilitie and submission by the Africanes as appeareth by this epistle to Celestinus that they coulde by no meanes be accounted schismatikes Afterwardes in dede the matter grewe so farre that it burst out in to open schisme and so continued to the time of Boniface the 2. To the which schisme that euer S. Austen Orosius or Prosper consented or any other good catholike prieste or bishop yow shall neuer be able to proue And so this lye with that houge Lye 43. heape of all the rest remaineth with you and the truth with vs. But because you bragge as you doe of the companie of S. Austen and Prosper and sclaundre them to the worlde to be schismatikes I will in defence of their innocency alleage out of their workes so muche as shall I trust with the better sorte suffice for their purgation Who is it I praie you M. Nowell that saieth of the church of Rome that in it the principalitie of the apostolike chaire hathe August epist 162. euer florished Who calleth Bonifacius the same in whose time this controuersie was moued the bishoppe that hathe Lib. 1. contra 2. epis Pelag. ca. 1 the preeminence in the bishoply care aboue all other Who calleth the See of Rome alluding to the wordes of Christe in the Psalm contra partē Donat. gospel the rock which the proude gates of hell shal not ouercome Who but S. Austē whom you be not here ashamed to matche with your selfe as thinking of the pope and See of Rome as heretically as you doe To come to Prosper when you here him acknowledg that Zozimus of whom all this talke riseth added to the decrees of the African councelles sententiae suae robur the strength and force of his sentence Lib. contra Collatorem cap. 41. that with Peters sworde to the cutting of of wicked men he armed the right handes of all bishoppes for so are his wordes in Latine ad impiorum detruncationem gladio Petri dexteras omnium armauit antistitum When you are not ignoraunt if you knowe anye thinge that the same Prosper saieth Lib. contra Collatorem cap. 10. that the holye See of Rome spake to all the worlde by the mouthe of Zozimus Will you not for shame call backe againe that wretched sclaunderouse lye off youres that Prosper shoulde be touching the bishoppe of Rome of the same minde that yow are Was Zozimus taken off Prosper to be a corrupter and falsarye a countrefeite catholike and in deede a false schismatike from Christe and the truthe as youre venimouse tongue hath not feared to pronounce of him Is fier more contrary to water then is this iudgemēt of youres to that of Prospers for his vertue and auctoritie You pretend that the fathers of the coūcel of Carthage would barre Zozimus of al auctority Prosper telleth vs that so much he was estemed of them that they had the strength of his sentence added to their decrees as muche to saye as to confirme and alowe them You call him a corrupter a falsarie a countrefeite catholike a false schismatike Prosper calleth him one that armed the right handes of al bishoppes with Peters sworde to cut of wicked mē from the rest of Christes mistical body the church You restreine his power to Rome Prosper confesseth that by his mouthe the See of Rome spake to all the worlde If this be not more then impudencie good reader in M. Nowel then what is impudencie I confesse I know not But acknowledged Prosper this auctoritie in Zozimus onely no verilye For in Celestinus to whome this epistle here mentioned was sent from the African bishoppes he witnesseth that there was suche power that he cured the Iland The pope meddled in England Scotland Fraunce and in the East off Britannye infected with Pelagius heresie that he ordeined Palladius bishoppe ouer the Scottishe men that with the Apostolicall sworde he aided Cirillus the B. of Alexandria to purge the churches of the East of a double plague the Nestorians and Pelagians that in Fraunce he put them to silence who reported euill of S. Augustins writinges Finally to them that reiected certeine bookes of S. Augustins vpon pretence that they were not allowed by the pope he answered An exception in the primitiue churche againste bookes that they were not allowed by the Pope Ibid. ca. 43 in this wise Agnoscāt calumniatores superfluò se obijcere quòd his libris non speciale neque discretum testimonium si◠perhibitum quorum in cunctis voluminibus norma laudatur Apostolica enim sedes quod a praecognitis sibi non discrepat cum praecognitis probat
is not necessarie that thinges compared should be one in all pointes They agree in this that kinges and bishoppes are bothe heades and gouernours the pointe where in the comparison was made Nowe whereas to this that I saie that the B. of Cauntorbury is heade off the bishoprike and diocesse of London as he is of all the bishoprikes within his prouince and that yeat a man can not infer vpon this that therefore the bishopp of London is not heade of that his diocesse as yow doe in saing that because Christe is heade of the whole churche therfore there is no other vnder him whereas I saie to this yow answere that youre bishoppes take it for theire chiefe honour to be and to be called gods ministres in his churche so doe oure bishoppes to M. Nowell and vsed no other titles then those whiche your false bishoppes hauing falsely vsurped vse and abuse at this daie but what is that to the matter that we entreate of Well be bolde man and blushe not coffe owt that tuffe fleaume that lieth in youre throte and saie that the archebishop is of no more power then the bishop If yow had saide thus then had yow answered yeat some thing whereas nowe yowe haue answered nothinge Except this maie stande for youre answere when yow proue it that neither Archebishop nor bishop maie be called heades of the churches fo 81. a. 6. that they gouerne but rather kinges and princes Whiche opinion because yowe see that it is contrarie to all M. Nowell laboureth to helpe his owne contradiction by a folishe shift that yow saied before touching the places of S. Cyprian and S. Hierome where yowe confessed so often that euerie bishop was heade of his owne diocesse to salue that sore yow saie Yeat I denie not but that bishoppes maie be and haue bene Nowell a. 17. though improprely named heades euen by good writers as the scholemaister of a prince in that the prince is his scholer is his heade c. Surely bishoppes are muche beholden vnto yowe that Dorman yow graunte them so muche auctoritie ouer their flocke as yow had ouer your scholers when yow were scholemaister of Westminstre But I praie you M. Nowell cal to your remēbraunce that S. Ciprian saieth of the bishop that he is in the diocesse where he ruleth the iudge in Christes stede that S. Hierom calleth him the high prieste that he must he saieth haue pearelesse auctoritie aboue all other that schismes rise by not obeing him and iudge with your selfe what a handsome comparison you haue made But admitting euen youre owne similitude you shall see how muche you haue saide for the auctoritie of bishoppes against that vnlaufull othe which you exact of all men Euē as the scholemaistre is in his schole the heade of his scholers allthough they be princes so be bishoppes the heades of suche as be in their seuerall bishoprikes all though they be princes but the scholemaister in his schoole is the supreme gouernour in all thinges and causes belonging to the schole his scholers allthough princes hauing in those thinges no power to commaunde Ergo the bishoppes are euery one in his churche the supreme gouernours in all thinges ecclesiasticall and princes haue no auctoritie to entremedle therein The which conclusion deduced M. nowell from your comparison as youre selfe with honestie can not mislike so I trust it shall displease no prince considering that as S. Ambrose saieth there can be nothing more honorable for Epist 32. ad Valent. the Emperour then to be called the sonne of the churche For a good Emperour saieth he is within the churche not aboue the churche But because this sentence is become nowe in Englande by the meanes of certeine clawbackes to be odioufe I will in defence of M. Nowell if anie perhappes woulde quarell with him for giuing to bishoppes so greate auctoritie adde out of Chrisostome of hūdreds of places that might be brought to that effect only one which is this Quanquā nobis admirandus videtur thronus regius ob gēmas affixas Homil. 5. de Esaiae verbis vidi Dominū The power of the prince and of the priest aurū quo obcinctus est tamen rerum terrenarū administrationē sortitus est nec vltra potestatem hanc preterea quicquā habet auctoritatis verum sacerdoti thronus in coelis collocatus est de coelestibus negotijs pronunciandi habet auctoritatem That is to saye Allthough the kinges throne seme to vs merueilouse for the pretiouse stones and golde wherewith it is garnished yeat hath he only the administration of earthly thinges and aboue this power he hathe no auctoritie but the priest hathe his throne in heauen and auctoritie to pronounce of heauenly affaires And thus muche by occasion of the auctoritie that you giue to bishoppes as greate ouer their diocesse as schoolemaisters haue ouer their schooles I woulde furder if it were not for troubling you haue desired you to haue named some good auctor to iustifie this saing of youres that bishoppes when they be called heades are so called improperly But I refer that to youre good discretion and to your better laisour Whether Christe nede to haue one to gouerne his churche vnder him and howe The 23. Chapitre IT IS true the Apologie and we all likewise saye that neither Nowell a. 30. b. 1. hathe Christe nede of anie suche one only heade vicair ouer all his churche which M. Dorman a little before dothe confesse him selfe neither is it Christes will to haue any suche heade vicair For though M. Dorman affirme that he so woulde yeat shall he neuer by the holie scripture wherein Christes will is declared be able to prome it Thirdly it is impossible for anie earthely man to haue and to execute anie suche office c. For the proufe of the first of these thre pointes yow Dorman bring my selfe for a witnes in my boke fo 9. b. Where I haue no such thing but onelie this that Christe had as little nede to gouerne his churche in the olde lawe by the helpe of one heade as he hath nowe I denied not then but he had nede nowe Therefore you continue youre accustomed wont of beelieng me If you aske me how he hath nede A lye 69. which is God I answere that as he neded the witnesse of men as appeareth by this There was a man sent from God Ioan. 1. whose name was Iohn to beare witnes of the light And againe Ioan. 15. Yow shall beare witnes of me because yow haue ben withe me from the beginning for the infirmities sake of men not for him selfe so for vs which can not commodiously be gouerned Howe God nedeth a heade to gouerne his churche nor well kept in orde without one heade a man as we are oureselues to whome in all controuersies we might haue recourse God hath nede of suche a heade Thus take I neede now taking it in youre
vnlearned you vse termes like youre selfe against this chaire of S. Petre minding as I take it to persuade that I shoulde drawe S. Hieromes wordes to suche a meaning as that he shoulde meane that Christes churche were builded vpon a materiall chaire You maye be ashamed M. Nowel where you lacke iust matter to blotte paper and waste incke with suche cauilling triffles as euerie man that hath common sense wil as sone as they haue passed once youre mouthe be hable to discouer and reproue Dothe not S. Hierome in this place make twise expresse mention of Petres chaire Why triumphe you not ouer him as you crowe against me with youre foolishe and vnsauory Rhetorike and saie that he was well occupied to write from Siria to Rome for councell from a rotten chaire that he was a wise man to ioyne him selfe in communion theretoe Who seeth not that yow woulde haue taken the matter as whotly with S. Hierome as you doe with me hauing as good cause alltogether sauing that yow feared the burning of youre lippes I saie therefore M. Nowell that VVhat S. Hierome ment by Peters chayre S. Hierome to answere you in this pointe if you were so verie a dolt that you vnderstode it not before by building the churche vpon Petres chaire meaneth euen as he did in those two places before where you can not denie but that he maketh expresse mention of that chaire Sainte Hierome meaneth there no materiall chaire and therefore no rotten chaire as you like a rotten membre and deuided from the churche blasphemously saie He meaneth as Matt◠23 Christe doeth in the ghospell speaking of Moises chaire as the fathers Cipriā Epiphanius Austen Ambrose Optatus and the rest doe as often as they vse this worde that is to saie by the chayre the power and bishoplike auctoritie which Petre hauing giuē to him cōmitted to his successours For euē as a riuer though it runne manie thousandes of miles leeseth not yeat but reteineth neuerthelesse the name of the founteine and heade spring from whence it came so fareth it in the succession of bishoppes that how many so euer there be that succede yeat they are all saide to possesse the chaire of him that ruled firste yea allthough euerie of them had made for him selfe a newe chaire For the matter consisteth not as I saide before in materiall chaires no more then doth the opening or shutting of heauen gates depende vpon materiall keyes And as well might you like a Lucianist or a Porphirian haue scoffed at Christe for saing that the scribes and Phariseis sate vpon Moises chaire which if they had had emōgest them if euer Moises sate in anie should at that time haue bene as rotten as is S. Petres nowe there being betwene Moises and S. Petre not manie fewer yeares then are nowe betwene S. Petre and oure time or for making keyes for heauen as yow doe against me But to let this passe and to exaggerate no furder that for the which at the handes of suche as be of the learneder and wiser sorte you are like to susteine punishment enough by incurring the note of this infamie to be no learned reasoner but a railing wrangler I will nowe as compendiously as maie be iustifie the inserting of this Parenthesis Peters chaire First these wordes vpon this rocke I knowe the churche to be builded ought to be referred rather as youre selfe before confessed and in this case if in anie you ought to be beleued for you haue bene a scholemaister and practised better in the gramer rules then in the scriptures and fathers writinges to the wordes that go nearest before but the wordes Peters chaire are placed nearest before Therefore by youre owne confession the building of the churche ought to be referred thither Againe S. Hierome in this place it is to be presumed alluded in these wordes I knowe the churche to be buylded on that rocke to the wordes of the ghospell Tues petrus super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam Thow Matt. 16. arte Petre and vpon this rocke wil I builde my church But in that place Christe appointed an other fundation of the church beside him selfe to wit Peter It foloweth therefore that S. Hierome in this place ment not of Christ but of Peters chaire that is Peters auctoritie or Peter him selfe Thirdly it is more then probable that sainte Hierome mēt not in this place of building the churche vpon Christe only but vpon Petre also nexte after Christe because to him that with iudgement wil reade the epistle considre duly the circunstances especially the beginning it shal appeare that his whole talcke is so framed that whereas of purpose and directly he maketh mention of consulting Peters chaire off ioyning him selfe to Peters chaire and in that whole discourse of his setteth furthe the praises of the churche off Rome he speaketh of Christe but incidently and as it were by the waie of a parenthesis and that toe to auaunce the dignitye of the See of Rome as before the which he woulde preferre he saide none but Christe The whiche being so what sounde iudgement will not rather refer these wordes aboute whiche the controuersie is to that whiche is principally and directly handled rather then to that which is mentioned but incidently and indirectly Last of all it is to be iudged that S. Hierome agreeth here with his owne writinges in other places Nowe is this euident that euen the thirde epistle before thys he saieth in plaine wordes that the churche was builded vppon Petre. His wordes are Apostolus Petrus super quem Dominus fundauit ecclesiam Tom. 2. epist ad Marcellā Petre the Apostle vpon whom our lorde founded his churche Thus you see good Readers I trust howe falselye and withoute all cause M. Nowell hathe quarelled with me for this parenthesis added only to make more plaine the wordes of Saint Hierome It foloweth that I showe to you howe he prosecuteth his purposed malice by the auctorities of Erasmus and S. Augustine in the 108. 109. and 110. leaues Erasmus saieth M. Nowell cleane contrarye to all papistes Nowell fol. 108. a. 18. saieth in his notes vpon these wordes Super illam petram c. Non super Romam vt arbitror c. That is to saie Vpon that rocke not vpon Rome I trowe c. From Erasmus thus farre we dissent not that we knowe Dorman as well as he that the church was not built vpō Rome For if Rome were sacked as God forbid to morowe nexte the church should continue neuerthelesse although the bishop went from thence and shoulde sit at the meanest towne in all Italye or elles where As for that that he woulde haue the churche to be builded by S. Hieromes meaning vppon Peters faithe that first he affirmeth not confidently but saieth he troweth so next it maye be saide that in this place Erasmus telleth his owne opinion in the other place off this epistle vpon these wordes Extra hanc domum without this
there is no nede to write or saye anye thinge because I haue no ennemie at all And therefore he addeth For M. Dorman can not be ignorant that we in all oure Sermones Nowell fol. 123. a. 25. and writinges of suche matters doe make a moste cleere and euident difference betwene the functions and offices of princes ciuile magistrates and priestes ecclesiasticall ministres and neither did we euer teache that princes ought neither did they euer desire to execute the offices ecclesiasticall off ministring the Sacramentes preaching excommunicating absoluing and suche like I am not ignorant in deede of this qualification of youres Dorman inuented the rather to intice some seely soules to the taking of youre othe Whome in deede I maye well call seely that will therby any thing the soner be moued For youreselfe are not ignoraunt I trowe M. Nowell that the causes why we stande with you in this matter are not onelye for ministring the Sacramentes for preaching excommunicating absoluing but as I tolde yow and you here guilefully conceale this power extendeth farder to the giuing and making of lawes for the churche to auctoritie to iudge of doctrine wherewith the meÌ„bres must be fedde whether it be souÌ„de or otherwise for these be offices that beloÌ„g to the heade not to the membres excepte you will saie that the sheepe ought to iudge what meate is conuenient for them not the shepherde Againe to appease schismes is the office not of inferiour meÌ„bres but of the heade it selfe and yeat belongeth as youre selfe haue graunted to the chiefe prelaces of euery prouince Finally to be heade of the churche is to haue the gouernement of so manye soules as be in that churche whiche because no laye man c. can haue in Note this reason particuler bishoprickes it foloweth that none can haue ouer the whole churches of a realme vnited Of the whiche matter Chrisostome saieth At quum de ecclesiae praefectura Lib. 2. de Sacerdotio de credenda huit vel illi tam multarum animarum cura agitur vniuersa quidem muliebris natura functionis istius moli ac magnitudini coedat oportet itemque bona viroruÌ„ pars But when the question is of the gouernement of the churche of the committing to this man or that the charge of so many soules then must all the kinde of women giue place to the burden and greatenes of this office yea and a greate parte of men also You bring the examples of king Dauid Salomon c. who you saye had auctoritie in gouerning of the cleargie and churche matters though they might not execute all ecclesiasticall functions and offices This matter is answered in my first booke fol. 31. sequ Thither I referre the Reader What though oure moste graciouse souereigne ladye being a Nowell woman haue not so greate skill in feates of warre as haue her capitaines haue not so good knowledge in the lawes of her realme as her Iustices and other learned men in the lawes haue thoughe she haue in al good learning and in the scriptures toe more knowledge then had anie of youre popes these seuen hundred yeares I beleue and therfore no lette in that pointe but she maie be heade of the whole churche aswell and rather then the pope What if she fitte not in publike iudgement nor determine controuersies as doe her Iustices c. what I saie if she can not execute all ciuile offices in her owne persone woulde yow therfore take from her her ciuile principalitie c Surely yow maie with as good reason doe it as yow would take awaie her superioritie ouer her cleargie from her for that she can not maie not nor will not execute ecclesiasticall functions Your comparison is false M. Nowell For there is no lawe Dorman neither of goddes nor mannes that forbiddeth a Quene although a woman to sitte in iudgemeÌ„t or to be present with her armye in battaile as Delbora did both So that the not Iudic. cap. 5. doing herof procedeth not of lacke of habilitie or power as contrarywise it doth that the prince meddleth not with ecclesiasticall matters whose condition in that that he is a laie man maketh him vnhable for that function Wheras M. Nowell noteth the Quenes maiestie to haue more knowledge in all good learning and in the scriptures toe then had anye pope these seuen hundred yeares as I am not he that would abase those her maiesties rare giftes of excellent learning and princely qualities farre more plentifully by the goodnesse of God bestowed vpon her then anie other so noble prince man or woman that this daie liueth but as my bounden dutie is rendre moste humble thanckes to almighty God therefore so can I in no wise but abhorre this moste impudent parasite good Reader who vpon his beelefe as though he had made neuer a lye in all this booke before A lye 82. addeth this of all other the moste shamefull Whiche I nothing doubte but her graces moste rare modestie can so euill abide to here that longe ere this she hathe iudged him in her princely harte to be as he is a vaine lyer and shamelesse parasite Whome if her grace shoulde commaunde to An Emperours rewarde for a flatterer be rewarded for his labour as Sigismunde the emperour rewarded one of the same profession whome praising him aboue measure he buffeted as fast answering him when he asked why beatest thow me Emperour why bitest thow me flatterer as the rewarde were princely for suche a gift so were the facte worthy so mightie a prince But nowe AEneas Siluius li. 2. Com. de reb gest Alphonsi to the good Reader what cause haste thowe to trust hereafter this mans beliefe in anie matter touching the pope the learning considered of Innocentius the thirde Aeneas Siluius called Pius the 2. Adrianus 6. Marcelâ—us 2. Paulus 4. and Pius 4. that nowe is and diuerse other within that compasse as to the Learned is not vnknowen This parasite staieth not here but going farder sayeth Though the Quenes maiestie haue not that vnderstanding of Nowell fol. 124. a. 1. all the affaires of her realme that experience in all thinges that actiuitie in executing them that hathe the whole bodye of her moste honorable councel yeat dothe the whole bodye of her councell though moste honorable humbly acknowledge her to be their heade only proude priestes because some thinges are incideÌ„t to their office which the prince maye not * VVhat if the prince listed nor list not to doe refuse their Souereigne to be their supreme gouernour You beely all priestes M. Nowell and maye be ashamed to make the bishoppes only councellors in religion whom Dorman before you confessed by S. Cyprians minde to be iudges in earthe in Christes steede whereas you would here make them no iudges or iudges in the princes steede You deale vntruly to sclaundre the cleargie as you doe In whose defence I wil saye as S. Ambrose
wolud woulde   26 ouersthrowe ouerthrowe 27 b 25 tho warte thow arte 51 a 32 betwe betwene 57 b 3 saunderouse slaunderouse 58 a 29 as in well as well 64 b 2 plaees places 65 b 3 praesbiterum presbyterum 74 a 24 ades heades 81 b 25 Macedonio Macedonia 82 b 5 nexte chap. nexte chap. saue one 96 b 6 Agipto AEgipto 98 b 26 Aricans Africans 108 a 1 toke on take on 155 b 10 amsuer am suer 179 a 15 churchand churche and 182 a 13 not not cōpare not compare 192 b 23 * Specially to be corrected fidei ecclesiae 198 b 1 call then call them 205 b 32 African Africanes    esbeare beare 211 b 7 in ipiet incipiet    * Specially to be corrected ipsa est sedes Petri ipsa est petra    shall not doe not In margine 86 a 21 Dorman Nowell 108 a 28 Goddes gooddes If yow finde any other faultes I trust yow will frendely amende them youre selues and considre that we printe not withe suche ease as doe oure aduersaries whose bookes yeat lacke not their faultes HONY SOYT QVI. MAL. Y. PENSE God saue the Quene A DISPROVFE OF M. NOVVELLES REPROVFE THAT the sentence prefixed before my boke to proue the Protestants Schismatikes was not abused and that M. Nowell hath passed ouer in silence the chiefe pointe in it The. 1. Chapter I TOLDE yow M. Nowell before that in this youre long Reproufe of mine so fewe leaues yow had for youre pleasure walcked oftentimes farre out of the way and that therfore I woulde in no wise binde my selfe allwaies to folowe your steppes As euen here in the very entrie to giue men to vnderstande what they are lyke to finde yow in youre whole processe leauing S. Austens interpretation vpon the place of scripture wherby he proueth them to be Math. 7. the rauening wolues that are schismatikes and those to be schismatikes who communicate not with all nations nor those churches that haue bene founded by the Apostles labour yow slily slip from that to youre owne and beare vs in hande that we are the Phariseis of whome oure Sauiour spake the saide wordes Because we walcke grauely in long garmentes pretende long praiers c. Leauing therfore all this by talcke of youres as wide from our purpose I will come to the pointe of the question which is betwene vs M. Nowell whether I lacked iudgement or store of choise in choosing this sentence of S. Austen to sette before my boke or no. Of the which I saie that all were it so that yow had clerely vanquished S. Austen and proued that this texte had bene to be vnderstande against vs because we go in long gownes grauely and yow clime in clokes vp in to pulpites or walcke in long robes lightly yeat had this mised to leaue no one suche sentence vnanswered Ergo the reader maye iudge by this how likely yow are to deale truly hereafter that begin so trustely That the places alleaged by me oute of S. Cyprian Lib. 3. epist 11. and lib. 4. epist 9. were alleaged to the purpose The. 2. Chapter I conclude therefore that these places are by M. Dorman falsely Nowell Fol. 2. b. 7 and shamelesly alleaged to make a showe or as he calleth it an introduction to the B. of Romes auctoritie whereunto they appertaine nothing at all but onely to the euersion thereof I neuer brought these places M. Nowell to proue the Dorman popes supremacie Yow nede not therfore to trouble youre selfe with the prouse of this that they apperteine to the deacon disobeing his bishop Rogatian and to Pupianus abusing S. Cyprian But allthough I graunte yow thus much M. Nowell yeat that these places because they proue not the popes supremacie appertaine therefore nothing at all to him but only to the euersion of his auctoritie that faultie and vntrue conclusion I can in no wise graunte to yow not allthough yow thinke to vnderproppe that ruinouse collection as yow doe with this sclendre staye that there is not one worde in these places of the bishop of Rome Fol. 2. a. 1. b. 6. or hys Supremacy nor he as muche as once named therein For yow shoulde haue considered M. Nowell that I entreate here in this place of the maner and nature of heretikes and schismatikes Which is I saie to rebell against their heades to contemne their superiours and laufull gouernours Nowe as youre selfe woulde not I trowe saie that if anie of yow shoulde by writing or anie other vnlaufull meanes which god forbid go about to stirre vpp the people against oure laufull Quene he shoulde speake impertinently to the purpose that to disswade them therefro shoulde begin his purposed talcke after this manner Remembre my frendes that the nature and propretie of heretikes is and allwaies hath bene after that they be once waxen strong to rebell and make warre against their laufull gouernours Remembre the late tumultes raysed in Fraunce by the Huguenotes there against their gouernour as I saie it is not to be thought that yow woulde reiect this mannes exhortation calling it impertinent to the matter tending to the euersion of the Quenes auctoritie because the example brought was of disobedience to an other prince betwene him and his subiectes and not in termes of the Quene oure maistres so surely ought yow no more to haue quarelled against me bringing these examples out of S. Cyprian Especially seing that I presupposed and afterwardes proued in the discourse of that article that the B. of Romes auctoritie was no lesse ouer the whole churche in spirituall matters then is that of other princes ouer their seuerall kingdomes in temporall iurisdiction The which pointe if yow had done ordrely yow ought first to haue confuted that so iustlie after suche disproufe yow might haue reproued the applieng of these auctorities There is no mention made in anie of these places of the B. of Cauntorbury ne yeat of London neither all though youre selfe graunte that by these places yt is proued that euery inferiour ought to be obedient to his owne bishop as Fol. ◠b. 14. his superiour and that the disobedience of suche is cause of schismes and heresies Whereupon what letted me in my preface to applie aswell these places to the disobeing of the B. of Rome allthough he be not there named as for yow when the case shall so requier to applie them to the bishoppes of Cauntorbury or London no more there then the pope mentioned by name Who is as I saide before as truly the bishop of the whole church as anie other is ouer his owne propre diocesse Yow go forwarde and saie Onely this is moste euident in what sense so euer S. Cyprian Nowell fo 2. b. 19. taketh these wordes One bishopp that ruleth the churche the B. of Carthage is that one bishop and not the B. of Rome and therfore that phrase of one bishop can make nothing
of heresies and schismes when men shoulde departe from the obedience of the pope the chiefe bishop of all other and therefore neither without cause or guilefully to deceiue the simple as yow vncharitably surmise Which youre selfe also perceiued verie well and therefore by the figure called extenuatio you terme this reason of mine a simple collection after this maner Now if he thinke yeat that he might make suche a simple collection Nowell fol. 5. a. 31. of S. Cyprian and S. Basile his wordes as this that as the beginning of heresies in their time was the contempte of the inferiours towardes their owne bishoppes for so Saint Cyprian teacheth so in likewise is the contempte of the Pope as the highest of all bishoppes the beginning of heresies nowe First I denie the argument for that it foloweth not though it be euill for the inferiour to disobey his owne bishop to whose obedience in all godlines he is bounden therefore it is euill for a straungier not to obey a straunge forraine vsurper to whome he oweth no dutie of obedience Againe I saie though it be the beginning of heresie to disobey Cyprian Rogatian yea or Cornelius being godly or catholike bishoppes yeat is it not likewise the beginning of heresies to disobeye any the late Popes of Rome who were not only no godly bishoppes as were Cyprian Rogatian and Cornelius but bothe moste wicked and in deede no bishoppes att all but false vsurpers of wordly tirannie Whome for the subiectes of an other Christian and laufull soueraigne to obeye and not to disobey is the beginning of heresies treasons and other mischiefes This is my simple collection you saie I acknowledge it Dâ—â—man for mine as simple as it is and to youre double answere thereto replye as foloweth First to the first that it is moste false that you laye for a grounded truthe that the bishop of Rome is a forraine vsurper as when I so gathered in my introduction I minded to proue in the handling of the first principall article of the popes auctoritie and so sence haue done Whereof seing youre selfe are not ignorant you haue delt not simply but doubly labouring to deceiue the simple by defacing as you thougth my preface as vnskilfully written for that I haue there only sayde and not proued that the pope is the chiefe heade of Christes churche in earthe whereas that I referred as by good ordre of writing the learned knowe I ought to the first article of the popes supremacie To the reasons and proufes in which place brought as in all youre answere you neuer come neare but cauill and wrangle against my Introduction whiche showeth the cause of schismes to be disobedience against pastours and bishops so if they be applied to this place as they must then shall it appeare how falsely you saye that the wordes of S. Cyprian were alleaged without all cause But because the whole force of this first answere of youres to proue my argument naught standeth in this that the bishop of Rome being a forriner no suche reason can be made from S. Cyprian and S. Basile his wordes I will here ouer and aboue that which I haue allreadie saide in the handling of this article in his propre place presently proue The pope taken for no foriner by S. Cyprian and S. Basile by S. Cyprian and S. Basile bothe that he was taken by them for no foriner neither in Africa Fraunce Spaine neither yeat in the Easte churche of the whiche S. Basile was For Africa first was the B. of Rome thinke yow taken Afrike there by S. Cyprian to be a forraine vsurpar whose churche he called ecclesiae catholicae radicem matricem the roote Lib. 4. epist 8. and mother churche of the catholike churche If the churche of Rome be the roote and mother to all other churches then if the mother be aboue the children if the mother and roote be no foriners to the children and branches of the tree it will folowe verie wel first that the churche of Rome as it is no foriner to the churches of Africa and to the other churches through out the worlde but aboue them all that so the bishop of the same is aboue the B. of Carthage and all other bishoppes and no foriner or vsurper And as carnall children how farre so euer they lyue from their naturall parentes cease not therfore to be their children nor their saide parentes become therby forriners euen so the bishop of Rome who gouerneth that churche that is mother to all other ceasseth not to be a father to his children dwell they neuer so farre of Was the B. of Rome reputed a straunger to the bishoppes of Africa Lib. 4. epist 8. who vsed to sende their legates to him to pacifie matters and to bring knowledge of the truthe Whose communion to holde S. Cyprian calleth in this epistle the firme holding and allowing of the vnitie and charitie of the catholike churche When all the African bishoppes assembled together in councel directed their lettres to the bishop Apud August epi â–ª 90. of Rome praying him to confirme their doings by the auctoritie of the Apostolicall See pro tuenda salute multorum quorundam peruersitate corrigenda for the preseruation of the healthe of manie and the amendement of the frowardenes of diuerse toke they him thinke yow for a forriner If S. Cyprian had had of the See of Rome that opinioÌ„ that you would gladlie persuade men he had woulde he thinke we haue saide of those schismatikes that sailed oute off Africa to Rome to complaine vpon him to Cornelius Post ista adhuc insuper c. Beside all this they haue bene so Lib. 1. Epist 3. bolde hauing appointed to them by the heretikes a false bishop to saile euen to Peters chaire and the principal churche from whence priestly vnitie sprang and to carie from schismatikes and prophane men lettres not considering that the Romaines are they whose faithe by the Apostles mouthe is praised and to whome false faithe can haue no accesse Woulde he haue saide Romam cum mendaciorum suorum merce nauigarunt quasi veritas post eos nauigare non posset quae mendaces linguas rei certae probatione conuinceret They are sailed to Rome with their marchandise of lies as though truthe coulde not saile after them able to conuince their lieng tongues by suer and vndoubted proufe Naye he shoulde and woulde you maie be suer had he bene of youre minde haue saide Let them go on goddes name what care I for the bishop of Rome Shall I be so foolishe to folowe them to debate the matter before him who is a plaine forriner to vs and hathe nothing to doe therein For thus woulde yow I dare saie at this daye answere if one shoulde go to Rome and complayne of you But nowe considering that saint Cyprian saied not thus but contrariewise made his account to stande with them and trie the matter before the bishop of
call it maie be taken as it is for good and sufficient Youre seconde answere for the first it semeth that youre Euill maners of rulers no cause to with drawe obedience selfe mistrusted and therfore added this as it were to vndreprop it is of all other moste vaine and fonde For what scripture haue you what Doctours what councelles if it were graunted to yow that the bishoppes of Rome haue bene of late yeares wicked men to proue that because of their euill maners their subiectes maie forsake them Oure Sauiour saide of the Phariseis allthough Matth. â—3 naughty and wicked men to his disciples that no man shoulde withdrawe his obedience from them but euery man Doe what they taught to be done but not what they did them selues vpon the which wordes S. Austen saith Illa ergo De doctr Christ lâ—b 4. Cap. 27. cathedra non illorum sed Mosis cogebat eos bona dicere etiam non bona facientes Agebant ergo sua in vita sua docere autem sua cathedra illos non permittebat aliena That chaire therfore being not theirs but Moyses his compelled them doing euill to speake good thinges They did therfore in their owne life their owne deedes but to teache their owne an other mannes chaire woulde not suffer them If moyses his chaire had this priuileage as if yow wil beleue S. Austen it had that they that possessed it how vile so euer their lyues were were yeat assured allwaies to teache no euill doctrine what obiect you for defence of youre running oute of the church and forsaking the head therof the euil life and wicked maners of theÌ„ that of late yeares haue you saie sitten in Peters chaire for whome oure Lorde praied that his faithe Lucae 22. might neuer faile as though oure Lorde god had only remembred the Iues and forgotten his churche But considre I praie yow M. Nowel against what men yow speake Yow reason against the gouernement of the bishoppes of Rome whose succession hath continued these 1500 yeares and holde that because of the euill maners of the latter popes they are not to be obeid as who woulde saie so long as their life was vpright and maners honest they were to be obeied otherwise this exception shoulde be in vaine Noweturne that parte of the wallat that hangeth before yow and is euer in youre eyes behinde and placing the other before loke vpon youre owne bishoppes not yeat settled in full 15. yeares quiet possession See whether they that before cried out vpon ambition pride couetousnes lacke of hospitalitie and suche like haue not in these fewe yeares ouertaken the bishoppes of 900. yeares before them and gone beyonde them toe What were to be loked for then might yow quietly continue after one hundred yeares that haue profited in wickednesse so muche in these fewe Might not youre scholers thinke yow euen by youre owne lesson bothe nowe and then giue yow ouer in the plaine fielde But if there be no remedie but that yow will nedes conclude thus of the popes of this latter age by which I thinke yow vnderstande as yow are wont all since S. Gregories time and without anie greate streining of curtosy him toe that because of their euill maners they were no bishoppes at all then giue me I praie yow leaue good sir to saie as muche to yow being as yeat no bishop but taking vpon yow to reproue the chiefe of al bishoppes as did S. Cyprian to Pupianus iudging his rulers no lesse then yow doe nowe all the latter popes Quis est enim hic superbiae tumor c. VVhat swelling pride is this VVhat arrogancie Lib. 4. epist. 9. and puffing vp of minde for the to call to thy examination thy rulers and priestes and except we make oure purgation before the and be absolued by thy sentence for the space of six yeares neither had the brotherhode anie bishop neither the people any heade neither the flocke anie shepherd neither the churche any gouernour neither Christe any bishop nor God any prieste Is it not so with vs M. Nowell not for the space of six yeares but for the continual space of 900 if it were true that yow Absurditie saye Should not the church by this meanes haue beÌ„ without any heade at all vniuersall or particuler Seing that all other bishoppes thorough out the worlde haue bene made bishoppes by the popes who being them selues no bisshoppes coulde not haue the auctoritie to make other And then will it folowe also that the churche hauing no bishoppes coulde haue no priestes if no priestes no sacramentes rightely ministred beside infinite absurdities mo that will folowe if that of all other moste foolishe doctrine of youres were true that naughty maners shoulde make of bishoppes no bishoppes Thus youre double answere made to my simple collection being confuted it remaineth that either yow confesse the collection to be good or seke out newe matter to impugne it One sclaunderouse lye of youres there remaineth yeat to be confuted Which allthough to the learneder sorte be nedelesse yeat for their sakes who be of the simpler with whome youre chiefe labour taken in youre boke is to deface me I shall shortly answere therto in mine owne defence Nowell fo 5. b. 23. In the conclusion it is to be noted when Basile speaketh of all the bishoppes of the East as the shepherdes striken M. Dorman altering the nombre speaketh it of the Pope as the only shepherd Here appeareth M. Nowell youre singuler honestie who burne with suche a hatred towardes my persone that so that somewhat you maie saye to ease youre stomacke yow passe not all is one to yow by what right or wrong For I A sclaunderouse lye 6. neuer alleaged these wordes as the wordes of S. Basile but alluded only to the scriptures where the prophete hathe Zachar. 13. Percute pastorem dispergentur oues Strike the shepheard and the sheepe shall be scattred Yow haue therfore delt vncharitably so falsely to sclaundre me and giuen the worlde withall to vnderstande that youre maliciouse affections beare no lesse swaye in youre pen in writing then in youre tongue in preaching That the historie of Nouatus is truly applied and that I am cleere from those lyes which M. Nowell sclaunderously laieth to my charge The. 4. Chapter Yow say M. Nowell that I maie be ashamed to forge so manifest alye as that Nouatus exacted an othe against the Popes supremacie Nowell Fo. 7. q. 3 or that yow folowe Nouatus in exacting the like othe as he did and to proue this conclusion of youres you laie for a ground that Nouatus his othe is not onely vnlike but cleane contrary to youre othes that the controuersie betwixt Cornelius and Nouatus was not whether the B. of Rome were the supreme heade as it is nowe betwene yow and vs but whether Cornelius or he was by right the B. of Rome I neuer saide that Nouatus exacted an othe against
13. 1562. aut tonsorem aut circulatorem circumforaneum aut aliqueÌ„ huiusmodi ministerio adhibituÌ„ qui bonas liter as ne à limi ne quideÌ„ vnquaÌ„ salutarit At this daye in manie places a man shal finde either a shoemaker or a cowhearde or a barbar or a iuggler or a mountebancke ronneagate or some suche other made ministre who neuer strided so muche as ouer the tresshold into the schole where good learning is taught Where you saye that we haue burned so many of youre learned clerckes that you are driuen to supply small cures with fol. 17. a. some honest artificiers surelie loke ouer youre calendre againe and you shal finde that the greatest nombre of them was of suche craftesmen as we speake of and that the learned that passed that waies were verye fewe to haue furnished those cures that youre honest craftes men be as it is were into their shoppes crept into Howe the saing of S. Cyprian that heresies and schismes rise of the contempt of the bishop which is one is applied to the B. of Rome The 6. chapitre I saied that it had bene declared by S. Cyprian before Epistol 9. Lib. 4. that the diuell in his attemptes against the churche vsed alwaies to beginne with the banishement of the bishop whiche is one c. By this one bishop in this place you saie I make Saint Cyprian vnderstande the B. of Rome I doe so M. fo 17. b. 18 Nowel but not directly or immediatly You are deceiued much and vnderstaÌ„d not my meaning if you so thinke For as I confesse that bothe in the one place and in the other of S. Cyprian he maie vnderstande the bishoppes and gouernours of euery particuler churche so am I not also ignorant that youre conclusion Ergo there is not one worde ment off the bishop off Rome is moste false For when S. Cyprian saied in these places that schismes whiche arise by the diuels worcking where so euer they springe vp come by the banishing of their auctoritie who be appointed to gouerne the churche let it be I graunt so muche of euery bishop in his owne diocesse might not I who presupposed in this introduction of mine which in the processe also I proued that the B. of Rome was the chiefe heade of all other conclude that then by a greater reason S. Cyprians minde was that schismes and heresies shoulde come by the forsaking of the B. of Rome allthough by name he spake not of him As if for example it were written in the lawes of oure realme Treasons and rebellyoÌ„ ryse by the coÌ„temning of the lieuetenaunt which is one in the Shiere shoulde he now saye amisse that to exhorte men to abide in the obedience of their prince woulde reason from the auctoritie of the lawe that by contempt of the kinge rebellion the trouble-feast of all good ordre taketh beginning I thinke no man will so saye And yeat speaketh not the lawe by name off the king Allthough no man can denie but that if the lawe woulde so saie of an inferiour membre it woulde not let to saie as muche of the chiefe membre of all Yow will graunte youre selfe that although S. Cyprian named not the B. of Rome yeat in that sence as he is bishopp of the diocesse of Rome he ment of him Which seing you doe why maie not I who take him to haue aswell iurisdiction ouer the whole churche as ouer that of Rome applye to him by the waye of introduction this place as well as you doe to euery particuler bishop notwithstanding they be not by name mentioned which is youre reason here made to the contrary And thus muche for the applieng of this place to the B. of Rome And as for the quietnes peace securitie B. 25. plenty of thinges c. that yow saye you haue nowe more then of late vnder the pope if you meane of youre selfe and youre companions comparing youre present state with that of late of Geneua surely I thinke yow saye truthe Although I ment generallie and of the better parte of the realme For allthough you wallow in wealth and youre selues be so prouided for either to abide or to flye with youre banckes as it is supposed all readye made in the marchantes handes although the wooddes wasted the leade plucked from the greate palaces haules and kitchins to greate for youre little hospitalitie and small roste the beneuolences exacted of the pore priestes haue filled youre coffers finally although youre brattes be prouided of the best fermes and manours belonging to the churches to the whiche by the olde canons I speake of the children of Conâ—iâ— Tolâ—â—an 9. Can. 10. priestes for you I vnderstand are but a single solled ministre they ought to be bond sclaues yeat are other men pinched and complaine of the lacke of that quietnes that peace that securitie and plenty of thinges that 30. yeares ago they had For you abuse men to much to compare the time present with the late time of Quene Marye in the which neither was the popes auctoritie fully restored with all men neither would Dauus suffer vs to enioy this quietnes peace c that you speake of who by violent armes by seditiouse bokes by sclaunderouse tongues by infamouse and lieng libelles finally by all meanes sought to hindre the same and to stirre vp the subiect against the prince And yeat in good sooth the comparison being so made the oddes is not so cleare as yowe take it to be But how euer it be M. Nowell I spake here of no suche worldly respectes as yow woulde seme to make me I spake and ment of ouerthrowing of churches and altars of the contempt of learned men of the teaching of euil doctrine of the promoting to ecclesiasticall ministeries weuers tynckers coblers bromemen c. I ment of peace and quietnesse in conscience of simplicitie and vpright dealing betwene man and man with suche like thinges Which if youre selfe doe not perceiue since oure first reuolt from the pope to be muche empaired then are yow a piece of deade fleshe and desperatly braine sicke For so saieth Hippocrates of them who being sicke feale not the griefe of their disease Youre promise to proue that where the pope hath had the greatest auctoritie there he hath brought in with him all miseries mischiefes c. shall in the place where you perfourme it be answered Howe Maximus Vrbanus and Sidonius went from the churche by not acknowledging the auctoritie of the B. of Rome and how they returned to the same againe by acknowledging it The. 7. Chapter M. Nowell after that he hath declared that the state of the controuersie betwene Nouatus whome Maximus Vrbanus and Sidonius folowed and Cornelius the pope was which of them two was a catholike bishop holding the truthe and truly and laufully chosen by God and which was the intruder and not of the catholike churche but an heretike concludeth thus Wherefore it is euident that when M.
proue that Maximus and his fellowes called not Cornelius bishopp of the catholike churche in this place here brought by me Cyprian saye yow called not Cornelius bisshop Li. 3. ep 13 of the Catholike churche but bishop Cornelius ordeined in the catholike churche Ergo Maximus and his two companions called not Cornelius bishop of the Catholike churche Is not this a goodly kinde of reasoning Wil you see the like M. Nowell preached not at Poules crosse that there was no scripture no councelles no doctours no allowed examples of the primitiue churche to proue the supremacye of the B. of Rome ergo M. Iuell did not I thinke M. Iuell woulde giue you a good flice out of his benefice vpon the condition that you coulde proue this consequent to be good And that thus you reason can you not denie For the Lib. 3. epistol 11. wordes alleaged by me here out of S. Cyprian be not Saint Cyprian his but the verie wordes by his owne confession of the pore penitentes And therefore to bring a phrase out of S. Cyprian to proue that because he did not so saye therefore an other did not if this were all were a greate faulte in reasoning But now if the wordes had bene in bothe the places S. Cyprians owne then had youre reason bene like to this M. Nowell preaching before the Quenes highnes at the courte saide not that it woulde do him good to rase his buckler vpon a papistes face ergo he saied not so at Powles crosse You obiect againe against this place to be ment of one chiefe bishop ouer the whole churche that then as there is one Nowell fol. 20. b. 12. onely God and none but he so there shoulde be but one onely bishop and no more but he That were true M. Nowell if as God is the name off a Dorman moste simple nature and excellencie so the name of a bisshop were suche as woulde admitte no degree of dignitie When it is saide that there is one bishop in the catholike churche it is ment one chiefe bishop For it is not necessarie that in all pointes this similitude of one God and one bishop shoulde agree It ought to suffise you that the similitude standeth vpright in that wherein the comparison is made which is here of gouernement that as one God gouerneth heauen and earthe so there shoulde be one chiefe bishop to gouerne vnder him the churche in earthe Thus forasmuche as there be degrees in bishoppes though in God there be naturally none for by abuse of Idolatres and by participation of name there be also manie Goddes and manie lordes as witnesseth S. Paule it is sufficient that as 1. Cor. 8. there is one God so there ought to be one chiefe bishop not excluding the reste but referring them to their heade by meanes whereof and in which sense there is one bishoprike and one bishop And so consequently it foloweth that my marginall note of one God one bishoppe meaning as you saye I did was not in vaine The next obiection of youres why in this place these wordes one bishop in the catholike churche shoulde not be vnderstand of one especiall bishoppe ouer all you confirme by S. Cypriā in diuerse places First by that which he hath of one Nowell fol. 21. a. 6 Lib. 4. Epist. 9 Bishop in the firste booke the 3. epistle then by a sentence taken out of his epistle to Pupianus afterwardes by certaine wordes of his to Antonius and last of all by that which he hath in his boke de simplicitate praelator or de vnitate Ecclesiae not farre from the beginning To the first two places youre selfe seme not muche Dorman to trust although folowing the preceptes of youre arte you are content to vse them to make a shewe of store either because youre conscience telleth you that the reason foloweth not He saieth so in this place therefore he must nedes saye so in the other either elles because youre selfe perceiued that there is a greate difference betwene these places by reason of the worde catholike For in the place here alleaged the schismatikes returning to the churche confessed that there must be one bishop in the catholike churche in these two places auouched by you S. Cyprian saieth that heresies doo spring or arise by contempt of the bishop whiche gouerneth the churche and is one Now as the latter wordes maye according to the circumstances of the place and here are I doubte not taken for the seuerall heade of euery bishoprike so the firste can not well otherwise be taken then to exclude all particuler churches by reason of the worde catholike which signifieth vniuersall addid thereto especially the wordes being translated the catholike churche and not a catholike churche as by youre owne so turning of them and otherlike to them it appeareth they must Off the thirde place out of the epistle to Antonius you conclude nothing neither but turne the matter ouer to the laste auctoritie of S. Cypriā in his boke De simplicitate praelat where moste plainely you saye he declareth his minde of this one bishoprike wholly and equally possessed of all and ouerie bishop Well then at the length M. Nowell from post to piller you be come thither where you will cast ancre Wherewith I also for my parte am well contented and desire no better then to be in this controuersie tried by S. Cyprian Now showe how S. Cyprian maketh for you that is nothing for the B. of Rome his supremacie but directly against it For those be the wordes that yow conclude Nowell fo 21. b. 25. Lib. de Simplicitat praelator Dorman withall vpon this place That doe yow after this maner S. Cyprian saieth that there is one bishoprike which euery bishop hath wholy for his parte Ergo consequently all bishoppes be equall and no one can be aboue an other I denie the cōsequent M. Nowell Will yow knowe why This worde episcopatus comprehendeth here by S. Cyprian his minde the whole nature of that kinde of gouernement which bishoppes haue as if in like wise a man shoulde saie Vnum est sacerdotium there is one priestehode in the churche which euery prieste hath wholly for his parte woulde yow now thinke that vpon this proposition it were well done to conclude of priestes as yow doe of bishoppes that therefore because in nature off priestehode they be all equall the meanest as trulye and wholly participating the nature thereof as the chiefe there shoulde be no one priest in dignitie of gouernement aboue the other and so ouerthrowe the office of archipresbiteri chiefe priestes whereof the councell Can. 15. itē Concil Carthag 4. can 17. of Toures in Fraunce aboute the time off Pelagius the first aboue a thousand yeares past maketh mention But what speke I of priesthode will yow condemne the whole churche of Christe for making of Archebishoppes I thinke yow wil not And what signifieth this worde Archebishoppe but a chiefe bishop If there
maye be one chiefe bishop in euerye prouince aboue the rest of his felow bishoppes and yeat no hindrance to the rest or diminishing of their power that they shoulde not be bishoppes aswell as he why maye not the same proportion be kept betwene the pope and the rest of the bishoppes of Christendome that is betwene the archebishop and the other bishoppes of the prouince But these be but wordes yow saye Call them what you will they lacke not reason and therefore answere them as yow can for answere them you must without you will giue ouer in the plaine fielde But I will ioyne to reason auctoritie not of any meane writer but euen of S. Austen him selfe who it is likely vnderstode as well the meaning of S. Cyprian as yow M. Nowell I trust yow will not be angry with me for saing so For as good I saye it as other thinke it The wordes of S. Austen writing to pope Boniface about the resisting of the Pelagians heresie are these Cum verò non desinant fremere ad dominici gregis caulas atque ad diripiendas tanto praetio redemptas Lib. 1. cōtra duas epist. Pelag Cap. 1. oues aditus vndecunque rimari communisque sit omnibus nobis qui fungimur Episcopatus officio quamuis ipse in eo praemineas celsiore fastigio speculae pastoralis facio quod possum pro mei particula muneris c Nowe whereas the heretikes ceasse not to gnash and whett their teethe at the foldes of our lordes flocke and by all meanes possible to searche out where they maye finde any entraunce to spoyle those shepe that haue bene so dearely raunsomed and the bishoprike the office whereof we susteine is common to vs all although your selfe haue the preeminence therein by reason of the higher toppe of the pastorall watche tower I doe what I can for that pece of charge which is commited to me as much as oure lorde by the helpe of youre prayers vouchesauffeth to giue me to withstand their pestilent and deceitfull writinges by other that shall be bothe wholesom and defensiue whereby either the rage wherewith they are starcke madde maye be vtterly cured or at the One bishoprike common to all excludeth not one B. to be aboue all the rest least kept frome hurting of others These be the wordes of S. Austen who confesseth with S. Cyprian that the office of a bishoppe is cōmon to al bishoppes with the pope and yeat condemneth notwithstanding most plainely youre consequent falsely brought in there vpon Therefore all bishoppes be aequall and none aboue an other For you haue hearde that the pope Boniface to whome he wrote was aboue all the rest in expresse wordes Thus is this conclusion of youres Euery bishopp hath in solidum that is to saye fo 22. a. b. fully and wholy that one bishopricke or bishoply function and office ergo no one can haue more than the whole and therefore no one can be aboue all other by grauntinge the consequent to be true touching the nature and substaunce of a bishopes auctoritie and office but denieng it to folow in preeminence and dignitie shewed to be a false conclusion But yeat yow goe forwarde and saie that this one bishoprike Nowell a. 25. is diuided aequally emongest all bishoppes as faithe and baptisme are aequally and wholy deuided emongest the faithful baptised and that therefore as no one man hath any superioritie In solidum in baptisme or faith aboue other truely faithfull and baptised so hath no one bishop superioritie ouer other bishoppes c. S. Cyprian maketh not his comparison here betwene Dorman faithe baptisme and the whole bishoprike of the churche otherwise then in this respect that eche of them is one and the point that he compareth them in is this that as baptisme is one as the faith of all faithful christiās is one and yeat al faithful and baptised haue not aequall auctoritie in gouernement so the bishoprike is one that as no man hath superioritie in baptisme or faithe to be more a faithfull man or more baptised thē an other so no bishop hath of the one bishoprike common to all touching the true nature and substance of bishoply ordre more superioritie of being a bishop then an other but all bishoppes a lyke the one as truely a bishop as the other touching ordre although as you heard before out of S. Austen the pope altius praeeminet hathe the higher preeminence that is to say is in higher auctorite of iurisdictiō then other bishoppes are Thus muche touching youre surmised comparison which if it shoulde haue bene made as you imagine then must yow either condemne S. Cyprian him selfe for bearing the name of an Archebishop or feine that there is also an archebaptisme to set against the dignitie of archebishoprike off the which two as no good man will doe the firste so no wiseman will thinke the last But howe so euer yowe take the matter M. Nowell there is no comparison made in this place till yowe come to the sentence Episcopatus vnus est there is one bishoprike For the better knowledge whereof it is to be vnderstande that the thing which in this place S. Cyprian laboureth to persuade is bothe in the bishoprike and in the churche vnitie To proue this he vseth a cōparison in this wise Episcopatus vnus est c. Ecclesia vna est quomodo solis multi radij sed lumen vnum c. The bishoprike is one etc. The church is one euen as many sonne beames make one light etc. But now let vs examine some one of these seuerall comparisons and you shall see how litle this worde in solidum wholly maketh for your pretensed aequalitie emongest all bishoppes and whether S. Cyprian ment as you do or no. Imagine you therfore with S. Cypr. this whole bishoprike The bisshoprike of the churche compared to a tree of the church to be a tree the brāches wherof be the bishop pes seuered the bodie of the tree the same bishoppes ioyned together the roote the chiefe bishoppe that holdeth thē together Except this be the meaning of S. Cyprian you can not make this comparison agree For the waye to make the things cōpared agree is because of thē selues both the bowes of the tree and bishoppes of the church are many to reduce thē to one beginning And as the same thing that maketh the tree one is a membre and parte thereof so must that which shall make the bishoprike one be a mēbre of the same bishoprike that is to saye a bishop although in that respect that he is a parte of the same bodie equall with the rest as the roote by being of one cōmon substāce with the bodie and brāches is aboue the other partes of the tree notwithstāding because they are all made one thereby and take theire life thereof as appeareth at the eye For cut away the roote and the bodie perisheth Take awaye the roote of this
vrge these wordes as you bring me in at youre pleasure M. Nowell To the moste blessed Lorde c. to proue thereby the popes supremacy but I will here note to the reader in this comparison the familier kinde of writing to the one calling him brother and the reuerent maner of writing to the other where of reuerēce they absteined from that worde To Athanasius they called them selues bishoppes To Iulius they vsed their propre names without all titles And will yow knowe the cause why VVhy Vrsitius and Valēs called not Iulius the Pope brother Forsoth whē they wrote to Iulius they knewe them selues to stande at his mercye as men that were oute of the churche therefore neither durst they call him brother being a catholike bishop and chiefe of all other neither them selues bishoppes hauing made them selues vnworthy that name But as sone as they were pardoned of the pope in their lettres sent to Athanasius they vsed boldly the titles of brother and bishop Whereby maye easelie be gathered that it was no recantation that they sent to Athanasius In the recantation offred to Iulius they professe to desire to be in communion with Athanasius This request saye they to him we trust you will not denie praecipuè quum pietas tua pro insita sibi integritate gratiā nobis erroris facere est dignata Nicephor li. 9. ca. 27. especially seing that youre godlines according to that naturall vprightnes which is in you hath pardoned vs allready oure faulte They adde furder that if these of the Easte churche woulde wickedly yea if Athanasius him selfe Note woulde call them into the lawe touching these matters that without his consent they woulde not goe Finally they abiure Arrius the heretike with all his fautours In the letters to Athanasius there is no renouncing of the Arrians heresie there is no mention of pardon neither of anie thing elles but that he might vnderstande that they were nowe reconciled Whereas if they had conteined a recantation the matters shoulde no doubte in as ample maner haue bene specified as in that to Iulius they were The Tripartite historie saieth that these men offered to Iulius libellum poenitentiae their recantation in writing and that to Lib. 4. cap. 34. Athanasius miserunt literas seqùe ei deinceps communicare professi sunt they sent lettres and professed that they woulde communicate with him hereafter Of all other Epiphanius writeth of this matter moste plainely His wordes are these Vrsatius ac Valens vnà cum libellis profecti ad B. Iulium Ro. Lib. 2. haeresi 68. episcopum pro ratione reddenda de suo errore ac delicto qúod calumnias struxissent papae Athanasio At suscipe inquiunt nos ad communitatem ac ad poenitentiam Sed ad ipsum Athanasium ijsdem conscriptis confirmationibus vsi sunt propter poenitentiam that is to saie Vrsatius and Valens going together with their libelles to Iulius the B. of Rome to giue account of their errour and faulte for that that they had gone about to entrappe Athanasius But receiue vs saie they to the communion and to penaunce Yea and to Athanasius him selfe they vsed the same confirmations for penaunce Lo M. Nowell one of the places that I of set purpose B. 31. woulde not note least my fraude might be perceiued in alleaging that which made nothing to the matter Maketh it not to the matter that these two being bishoppes of the East churche shoulde vpon the forsaking of their heresies take on them so long a iorney offre them selues to suche daungers by sea and by lande to their no small costes and charges to make their submission in writing which they might haue sente and auoided all those difficulties by tarieng them selues as they did in writing to Athanasius at home if the B. of Rome had bene but equall to Athanasius and had had no more to doe in the matter then he Is it impertinent that they confesse of the pope that he hath pardoned them their faulte whereas of Athanasius there is no such worde Or is it lightly to be estemed that they promise to doe nothing in those matters of their faithe not at the calling of the bishoppes of the Easte or Athanasius him selfe without the popes consent Is it not to the purpose that they went to the pope to giue an accompt of their errour and fault committed against Athanasius that they desired of the pope to be receiued to penaunce and wrote to Athanasius for their penaunce Well by this I trust it appeareth that as I had no cause to cōceale these places as though as you saie I feared lest thereby it would fal out that the world should vnderstand my guile in alleaging that which made not to the purpose so that it is you who in saing that Vrsatius and Valēs offred vp their recantation aswell to Athanasius as to Iulius haue to furder youre heresie made an impudent lye and fathered Li. 9. ca. 27. that vpon Nicephorus which is not in him and thought to dor vs and out face vs to with a carde of tē Beside this I say as I saied before that if it had bene true that they had made their recantation to Athanasius also that yeat the consequent foloweth not that then the B. of Alexandria shoulde haue bene by this meanes aswell heade of the churche as Iulius For what letteth why the pope might not enioine them after their recantation made at Rome to make the same againe to the propre bishop of that place where their heresies were moste notoriouse Or how is this any diminishing of his auctoritie The force of this example consisteth VVherin the force of the example of Vrsitius and Valēs dothe consiste in this that being bishoppes so farre from Rome they should skippe Alexandria and come to Rome why they were reconciled at Rome first and then in Alexandria afterward So that what letteth now to conclude as I did By this meanes returned they to the church c. What letteth me to reply to youre I toke my harp into my hande and twang quoth A twang of M. Nowelles harpe my stringe a Youre stringe is broken betwene youre handes and where is now youre twang a O M. Nowell when you thought with suche a seely twang of youre harpe as this is to shift youre hādes of this graue and weighty testimonie you thought belike withal so to bring all the worlde a slepe with that sweete melodie or rather as Orpheus is reported by the poetes to haue by the musike of his harpe moued wooddes mountaines and rockes to appease the furye of wilde beastes so contrary wise by that sweete noise off youres to make wise men suche tame fooles by a strange metamorphosis so to turne them into blockes and stones as that they shoulde not be hable to perceiue youre vneuen dealing Surely in my pore conceite yow littell regarded youre calling yow muche empaired your name in answering thus lewdely Was this
processe plaing the ape in mocking mowing and tossing of suche graue auctorities as maie serue for the confirmation thereof yow haue not impugned my proposition but scoffingly confirmed it Which maner of answering how it is to be liked I praye the discrete reader to iudge Of the necessitie of one heade in Christes churche The 11. chapitre When I minded to handle in writing the preeminence and superioritie of the B. of Rome ouer Christes vniuersall and catholike churche and considered first that the scripture it selfe then the fathers and councelles finally the examples of the primitiue churche alowed the same I laied for a fundation to builde vpon that there must nedes be one heade in Christes churche to gouerne it Not as though if to the wisdome of him who dothe in his wisdome all thinges it had so semed the gouernement of Aristocratie that is to saie off the best and wisest men might not haue bene preferred by him which is Lorde ouer nature before the rule of Monarchie that is of one alone whiche is moste agreable to nature And for this cause I saied that of necessitie it must so be Which necessitie if I had not bene able to proue as the contrarie shall hereafter appeare by that that you keping youre selfe to the title of youre boke haue onely reproued and not disproued anie one reason off myne yeat must all men off necessitie nedes confesse that seing Christ committed in the scriptures the whole charge of his church to only Peter giuing him auctoritie to feede al Lābes and shepe seing that the fathers with Ioan. 21. such cōformitie confesse the same of Peter and his successors as namely to omit other because I haue hādled this matter elles where and this is not the place propre therefore Chrisostome who saieth that Christ committed the whole charge of all to Peter and his successours nedes I saye must Homil. in Maeth 55 li. 2. de Sacerdot all mē acknowledge the necessitie of that one heade which by suche good proufes they see confirmed although I nor any man elles were able to proue the same by reason To make the matter more clere by example the churche of Christe holdeth that oure blessed ladye was a perpetuall virgin aswell after the byrth of Christe as before Eluidius the heretike holdeth the contrarie If I now to ouerthrowe Eluidius shoulde first place this proposition for my fundation to builde vpon against him That of necessitie that womā what so euer she were of whom the Sauiour of the worlde should take fleshe ought aswel to be preserued pure that that place might not be defiled through which Christ him selfe had passed after her bringing furthe as before it was preserued from being contaminat because he should passe through if this proposition were not proued or coulde not by reason or scriptures be proued woulde yow then that Eluidius shoulde go from the receiued faith of the churche and saye there neded no further battery or vndermining to be made to ouerthrow that which is manifestly proued in the persone off oure lady by the faithe of the churche as the matter is here in the personne of the pope What if disputing against a Iewe or infidell that woulde denie that Christ suffred death for the synnes of the world I should laye for the fundation this saing of the gospell Oportebat Christum pati c. Luca. 24. If Iwer not able to proue this necessitie because goddes omnipotent power might by other meanes haue wrought our saluation doth it by and by folowe that the infidell hath proued his purpose that Christ did not suffer death for vs I wright not this as though I mistrusted the prouing off this proposition of mine that there must be one heade c. but to encountre with you who beinge comen but thus farre beganne to repent yow of the long iourney that yow had to make and therefore to abridge the same thought here to make and therefore to abridge the same thought here to make the reader beleue that it shoulde be nedelesse to goe so farre as to Rome to the Popes owne sight that so youre shunning of the matter might seme to come of politike forsight not of dastardly cowardnesse I saide that the state of goddes people in the olde lawe and experience of ciuile gouernement did proue the Nowell Fol. 29. 2. 23. necessitie of one heade Yow answere that as goddes people in the olde law were one seueral people and had one high priest so that no further can be gathered thereof but that likewise in euery diocesse or countrie it were good to haue one chiefe bishop to rule in the cleargie Oh M. Nowell think you thus to ouerbeare youre pore Dorman neighbours You must remembre yow must remembre that you fight against truthe that will not so be outfaced You must remembre that when we talke of the Iewes as of the people of God we doe not in that point recon them as one seuerall people They were in dede seuerall in respect of other natiōs which had forsakē God but neuer in such sorte seueral as though the whole church of god were not vnder the gouernemnet of their lawe and chiefe priest They were therefore a figure not onelie of one diocesse or one countrie but of the whole churche that now is and made the churche that then was And so the example holdeth still You make my reason taken frō the exāples of kingdomes fol. 30. a. 21. societies families etc. and applied by force of greater reasō to the church to come from S. Cyprian to Pighius to D. Harding and so to me The mo that haue it the gladder I am But I pray you what is this to the purpose whose it be except yow doe this to shewe youre selfe to be a man of greate reading and ignorant neither in the olde writers nor in those of latter time What so euer yow make of me or how so euer it please you to take me I am not iwisse so verye a dolt but I could haue made this reason euen by the experience of those thinges which ronne dailie into myne eyes and neuer haue loked either in S. Cyprian or Pighius or borowed it off D. Harding and had not youre memorie failed you you could haue saide youre selfe that I tolde yow that experience was the thing that moued me to saye it Whose argument or reason so euer it be blinde yow saie it is That let indifferent eyes trye M. Nowell I reason thus Euery kingdome hath his seuerall king euery people citie towne village house and so furthe haue their seuer all head or gouernour ergo the whole churche which is but one diuided into many membres as saieth S. Cyprian must haue one heade as wel as hath one kingdome one people one citie c. Now what faulte finde you Li. 4 ep 2. with this reason I praie you that see so clerely and haue euē youre eies as a man woulde saie in youre handes
only in Afrike by common Cypr. lib. 1. epist. 4. consent of the Africans was not in Spaine as appeareth by the appealing from thence of Basilides to Rome Which if it had bene vnlaufull neuer woulde S. Cyprian we may be suer haue made other exception why the sentence giuen by Stephanus the pope for his restitution shoulde not be good then this because it was giuen by him that was no iudge at all of all other the best and moste peremptory neuer would he haue obiected that it was obteined by false suggestion and wrong information which argueth the goodnes and validitie of the appellation of it selfe But what speake I of Spaine when S. Cyprian his owne labouring Li. 1. ep 3. at Rome with the pope by lettres by legates by all meanes possible that this vniust appeale might not be receaued when his counting to saile after them to conuince their lieng tongues by vndoubted and assured proufe of the truthe ought sufficiently to make faithe that seing the pope had neuer confirmed this locall statute of theirs and therby not renounced his right seing his subiectes against the ordre taken had appealed to Rome he must also nedes answere the appeale for the vnlaufulnes wherof on their partes that folowed it he alleageth here their own consent in these words omnibus nobis agreed by al vs to moue therby the rather the B. of Rome not to receiue their appeale but to remit the cause home againe Whereas you saie that S. Cyprian hathe that none but naughty and desperate men doe thinke the auctoritie of some bisshoppes to be inferiour to the auctoritie of other surely yow go about bothe to proue youre selfe S. Cyprian S. Austen and all the learned fathers of Christes church naughty and desperate men You condemne in like maner the auncient generall councelles and continuall practise of the catholike churche For who is so ignorant that he knoweth not that the bookes of the learned fathers the canōs of the auncient councells the vsage of Christes churche haue so religiously alwaies obserued this difference of bishoppes that the verie names of patriarkes primates Archebishoppes reteined allwaies and vsed in the churches are able to conuince him to be an impudent lier that shall susteine the contrary Youre selfe confesse that there be chiefe prelates in euery prouince If chiefe Ergo inferious You call him a naughty and desperate man that thinketh the auctoritie of some bishoppes to be inferiour to the auctoritie of other Yow saye the same youre selfe by graunting that there be chiefe prelates Hauing sought all the meanes that my pore witte can inuent to exempt yow from this companie of naughty and desperate men I finde no other then this that perhappes you only saye it for a shift and thinke it not in deede But if you were to be accounted naught and desperate for this yeat had you in this respecte cause to reioyce that yow were like to haue the companie of S. Austen who telleth Bonifacius the pope that in the Lib. 2. de baptism contra Donat. cap. 1. gouernement of the church he was not onely aboue him but aboue all other bishopps although the office be common to all in sitting in the highest top of the pastor all watche tower who saieth comparing together S. Petre and S. Cyprian Sed si distet cathedrarum gratia vna est tamen martyrum gloria But although betwene the grace of their seates there be difference yeat the glory of martyrdome is all one And againe comparing Innocentius the pope with Irinaeus Ciprian Hilary he hath Cum his Innocentius Romanus Pontifex consedit etsi posterior tempore prior loco With these sate Innocentius the bishop of Rome although behinde them Lib. 1. cōtra Iulian. c. 2. in time yeat before them in place Yea to comfort you the more I dare promise yow the companie of S. Cyprian him selfe For if he had not bene of the minde that some bishoppes are inferiour to other in iurisdiction althoughe not in the substance or nature of bishoply ordre woulde he haue exhorted yea and required the B. of Rome to write lettres in to Fraunce to direct them to the prouince and people of Arles wherby they shoulde depose Martianus the B. there Lib. 3. epi. stol 3. With what face could he haue done this had he thought that the auctoritie of one bishop were no greater then that of an other But here you will vrge me that it is not enough to shewe by probable coniectures that in these wordes Saint Cyprian had no suche meaning vnlesse I showe withal what was his meaning Yes verily M. Nowell it were enough for me to proue that the sense which you giue to these wordes of his coulde not be true but for their sakes who desire to knowe not onely what is false but what is all so true I will open that pointe to This is therefore by this epistle of S. Cyprian moste euident that these naughty men who complained vpon S. Ciprian at Rome went first before they toke their iourney to Rome in to Numidia and there ioyned them selues to certeine hereticall bisshoppes of whome Fortunatus was made a bishop and so by reason that none were made bishoppes that stode excōmunicate it must nedes be that he was by them first absolued These hereticall bishoppes of Numidia these wicked subiectes of his owne who demaunded helpe and complained where they ought not he calleth by the name of a fewe lost and desperate men who had attempted and done so manie thinges to the derogation of the auctoritie of their owne primate and submitted them selues to the vnlaufull auctoritie of heretical and schismaticall bishoppes quasi minor videatur esse authoritas episcoporum in Africa constitutorum As though the auctoritie seme to be lesse of the African bishoppes then of those of Numidia we must supplye who toke vpon them to defende and mainteine Fortunatus and his felowes condemned in Africa before By which is ment Africa the lesser wherein Carthage stoode from which Numidia was a distincte prouince whereas yow M. Nowell take Africa for the whole as it is counted the thirde parte of the worlde pretending as thoughe no one bishop of the other two partes of the worlde had more auctoritie then the bishoppes of Africa Excepte this be the meaning of the place you can not excuse S. Cyprian of being contrary to him selfe as by the auctoritie acknowledged by him in the pope in Fraunce in Spaine in Carthage as you haue hearde as by the calling in this verye epistle the churche of Rome the mother churche and roote of the catholike churche it dothe manifestly appeare Whiche of so graue an auctor is not to be thought To conclude therefore S. Cyprian dothe not here forbid all appellations from a bishop of one countrie to the B. of an other He saieth not that all bishoppes be of like auctoritie that none but naughtie and desperate men doe thinke the auctoritie of some bishoppes to
the lacke of his visible presence by appointing as in well one in his steede to the behooffe of the whole churche as of particuler churches For this one heade lest any man might cauill that he might erre and drawe all after Lucae 22. him Christ him selfe prayed saieng in the gospell to Peter whome he left in his place to be that heade I haue praied for the that thy faithe maye not faile We may not doubte therfore but that he obteined his petition We haue no cause to doubte considering that hetherto all other apostolicall seates and moste famouse churches of the worlde as Antioche Alexandria Hierusalem Constantinople hauing perniciously erred in the faithe and being quite ouerthrowen this onley seate of the chiefe heade of Christes churche the churche of Rome I meane against so manie wicked Emperours openly assaulting it so many De vtilit credendi ad Hoaorat Cap. 17. subtile heretikes craftily vndermining it and barcking rounde about it as S. Austen saieth so manie meanes inuented to bring it to defende euill and perniciouse doctrine hathe in all these difficulties continued allwaies and by goddes grace euer shall continue pure and vnspotted Beside this to stoppe all youre starting holes at once nowe for hereafter yow can not saye that by this reason of mine whereby I go about vpon the necessitie of one heade in euerie diocesse to proue the like ouer the whole churche it shoulde folowe aswell that there ought to be ouer all the kingdomes of the worlde one chiefe king or emperour because as I saide once before all the kingdomes in the worlde meete not together by goddes ordinaunce in one kingdome as all the churches doe in one churche Which if they did off necessitie they shoulde being one bodye haue one heade And therfore in this case I Lib. de vnitate eccles Cap. 12 maie saye with S. Austen Nèque enim quia in orbem terarrum plerunque regna diuiduntur ideo Christiana vnitas diuiditur Neither because kingdomes for the moste parte be diuided through the worlde therefore is Christian vnitie diuided also And yeat this is the thing that M. Nowell laboureth to bring to passe that because there be many kingdomes and consequently many kinges there shoulde be many churches and so many rulers of the churche or goddes apointment of gouerning the worlde by many kinges made frustrate and so no mo kingdomes then there be churches Thus I haue showed yow M. Nowell howe this place of S. Cyprian maketh for my purpose referring those wordes Neque vnus in ecclesia ad tempus sacerdos ad tempus iudex c. Neither that there is one prieste and one iudge acknowledged in the churche in the steede of Christe for the time to the proufe of the necessitie of one heade ouer the whole churche by an ineuitable consequent taken from S. Cyprians wordes not as directly ment of the pope as you laboure to make men beleue spending manie wordes here in vaine to proue that these wordes shoulde be spoken of S. Cyprian him selfe To all the which long processe of youres I will then make answere when I shall vse the place to suche purpose as you imagine I doe Although this I will aduertise you of by the way that the case is not altogether so clere as you take it to be that this place of S. Cyprian is only to be taken as spoken of him selfe and not of Cornelius as to him that shall considre that no particuler bishop is able to staye schismes so conueniently whereas the bishoppes of diuerse prouinces be of equall auctoritie as that one bishop that hathe auctoritie ouer the whole nombre of bishoppes it can not but be manifest And yeat maie euerie man see in this place that the one bishopp of whome S. Cyprian speaketh should be suche as being obeied there shoulde be no schismes in Christes church Which can be vnderstande of no one particuler bishop but of some such one as because his auctoritie is vniuersal it will folowe that the obeing of him shall procure to the whole churche to the colleage of priestes quietnes and vnitie Againe when S. Cyprian handling of purpose this argument of the vnitie off the church telleth vs how the the diuel haleth men to heresies and schismes because they go not to the beginning of the truthe seeke not out the heade obserue not the heauenly maisters teaching and addeth immediatly that our lorde saide to Peter Thow arte Peter c. as though he woulde teache * Not as M. Iuell iuglgeth with this place in 3. his printed sermoÌ„ vs therby Matth. 18. to come to the beginning of the truthe to finde out the heade to kepe the teaching of Christ that he disposed by his auctoritie that vnitie shoulde begin of one Last of all that he holdeth not the faithe that holdeth not the vnitie of this churche that began of Petre ought not these wordes vttred to teache vs to auoide schismes be a rule to directe vs to S. Cyprians meaning in this place where he saieth that heresies and schismes rise because one iudge in the church in the stede of Christe is not obeied But leauing the defence of this interpretation to those that haue so alleaged and vnderstode the place who are able it is not to be doubted to giue good reason of their doinges I will procede to that which foloweth Concerning the Apologie wherewith I founde faulte for saing that Christe in the gouernement of his churche â—ol 38. b. 7 vseth not the ministerye off anye one generall heade c which you labour here to defende I saie that it hathe not onely committed this faulte in denieng this maner off gouernement in Christes churche the contrarie whereof S. Cyprians wordes by a necessary consequent importe but is blasphemouse also against Christe whose ordonaunce it is to haue one heade to gouerne in his steade the churche by affirming so peremptorily that it is not possible for anye man alone to be hable to susteine that office To the which two if I shoulde adde this beside that it was moste foolishely vttred first of the Apologie and nowe moste impudently defended by yow it might perhappes moue Not impossible for one man alone to gouerne the churche vnder Christe youre cholere a litle but yeat M. Nowell it is true For what man that had but a cromme of witt in his heade woulde call that a thing impossible to be done which him selfe for the space of 900. yeares can not denie to haue bene done Denye if you can that thus manie yeares the whole worlde hathe not in spirituall matters obeyed one heade the B. of Rome I presse you not nowe with the first six hundred yeares before in the which the ecclesiasticall histories and writinges of the fathers make moste euident mention that this auctoritie of one generall heade was thorough out the whole worlde acknowledged of all men To this one heade appellations were made from all partes of
40. a. 1. were bothe of one minde Therefore saie I they bothe proue the necessitie of one heade Neither care I whether S. Hierome speake in this dialogue of the B. of Rome by name or no. It suffiseth to proue my entent that as by youre owne confession S. Cypriah is of the minde that in euerye diocesse there must be one prieste and iudge in the stede of Christe whome all the rest must obeye so S. Hierome also is of the same The which being once graunted it foloweth verie well that seing for one litle diocesse a heade ouer so meane men as parishe priestes be is precisely necessarie muche more is a heade in earthe ouer all the bishoppes which haue euerie one of them so greate power ouer their owne flocke lest theye abuse the same of greter and more forcible necessitie And therefore you take greate paines to no purpose to proue that S. Hierome speaketh not of the B. of Rome but of euery other bishop the which thinge I woulde hier you to proue for me For whereas if he had spoken of the B. of Rome by name it had bene a reason grounded vpon the auctoritie of S. Hierome alone now being spoken of euerie bishop it confirmeth by reconing the necessitie of one heade particulerly in euerye diocesse the greate necessitie of the same one heade in the whole bodie of the churche by naturall reason also which proueth my purpose better then any priuate mānes auctoritie can doe If cancred malice and desire to be reuenged had not caried yow so far and fast awaye that it gaue you no leisor to loke backe to the title of the argument that is here handled youre selfe woulde sone haue perceiued howe litle it were necessarie to haue in this place anie speciall mention made of the B. of Rome Which if yow had once marcked then woulde you neuer haue gathered so foolilishely and vnlearnedly out of the argument of the dialogue fol. 40. a. 6 writen by Erasmus Liber est c. The booke is very worthye to be reade as the whiche doth conceine manie ▪ wholesom preceptes M. Nowell a weake reasoner concerning the life of bishoppes that there was nothing in the same dialogue not asmuche as one worde that is special to the B. of Rome onelye For all thoughe there be no one worde there speciall to the B. of Rome as it is not necessary that there be how shoulde yeat this auctoritie presse him that woulde maintaine the contrary and saye to you what M. Nowell I thinke your wittes faile you Maye there not be some one worde speciall to the B. of Rome in that dialogue because it conteineth manie wholesome preceptes concerning the life of bishoppes Is not the B of Rome a bishop Muche like or more foolishe then this are youre other notes gathered here and there out of this dialogue to proue that which you saie of euerye bishoppes auctoritie and to reproue my wresting as you terme it of this place to the auctority of one bishop ouer the whole church For who sence reason was first poured in to mannes heade harde euer of one that occupieth the place of a wise man a more folishe or brainesicke kinde of reasoning then is this S. Hierome speaketh in diuerse places of this dialogue of manye bishoppes because the question was whether bishoppes returning from their heresies shoulde be vnbishopped or no before they were reconciled Ergo He meant not in the place alleaged that there shoulder be one chiefe bisshoppe in the churche This semed to your self to be farre from the marke I doubte not when you promise to come nearer to the place by fol. 40. b. 22. fol. 41. b. me alleaged And therefore you bring in certeine sentences going next before to proue that which I denie not that S. Hierome speaketh of euery bishop in his owne diocesse And thereupon you conclude And therefore this whole matter is altogether impertinent to Nowell fol. 42. b. 9 D. Harding and M. Dormans purpose of one onelye heade ouer the whole churche Vnlesse M. Dorman woulde frame vs thereof this lewde argument S. Hierome saieth that euery bishop ought to haue auctoritie aboue all other priestes of his owne diocesse Ergo the B. of Rome ought to haue a preeminence peerelesse aboue all bishoppes of all diocesses and ouer the whole church thorough out the whole worlde No M. Nowell I will not reason so in this place because Dorman the argument whiche I handle forceth me not so to doe But if I had so reasoned or woulde so reason as yow thinke no man being awake wil yeat am I he that euē in my slepe M. Nowell were able to defende that argument againste yow staring with bothe youre eyes wide open vpon me And that youre selfe perceiued well inough and therefore like a tendre harted mā as lothe to breake my sweete slepe you stolle from it as softlye as you might For this being I praye you first graunted that euery bishop ought to haue auctoritie aboue all other priestes of his owne diocesse and the reason being as S. Hierome hathe here and you in making the argument guilefully left out for the auoiding of schismes I woulde infer for the minor or seconde proposition but the same reason for the auoiding of schismes dothe no lesse yea more enforce that one haue perelesse auctoritie ouer the bishops and priestes of the whole world Ergo there must be one suche heade and that by a consequent the B. of Rome who hathe euer so bene reputed and taken except you by youre deanely auctoritie haue power to appoint some other But I brought not S. Hieromes auctoritie VVhy S. Hierome was first alleaged M. Nowell to conclude so particulerly or to force it to the B. of Romes supremacy but only to proue the necessitie of one generall heade ouer Christes vniuersal churche the which no reasonable man can denie but that most effectually it dooth So that nowe youre greate musing at any man that shall to this sense alleage this place of S. Hierome maye appeare rather to procede off some dumpish melancolike vapours occupieng youre fonde and idle heade or lacke of other matter to thinke vpon then vpon any iust cause or good grounde and that also yow haue vntruly saide of me that I haue wrested this place In answering the place of S. Hierom to Euagrius you saie Nowell fo 4◠b. 18 first that he sheweth that praesbiter and episcopus a prieste and a bishop be all one by the first institution and by the lawe of God If it had pleased yow so to haue taken S. Hierome he Dorman might haue ment that the name of a prieste and the name of a bishop was all one in the vse of speche in the holie scriptures and in the sacrament of ordres but not in dignitie preeminence and auctoritie For a bishop is preferred before a prieste in iurisdiction allthough their names were once confounded Neither are all those thinges
schismes be taken away Thus farre S. Hierom. By which words as it appeareth that the schismes were in particuler churches so the heades of whome he speaketh were afterwarde by his minde chosen in particuler churches Thus is S. Hierome expounded by him selfe which I trust the learned will like much better then suche crooked gloses of youres as tende to no other ende but to the defacing of the graue and learned fathers as this coulde not choose but here discredite S. Hierome if in a matter of suche weight as this is he shoulde be founde contrarie to him selfe It foloweth This which was thus done afterwarde saieth S. Hierome was done rather for the honour of priestehod then for the necessitie of Nowell fol. 43. b. 4 the lawe For by the lawe of God which is first the prieste as S. Hierome saieth may doe asmuche excepting ordering only as maye the bishop but afterwarde for ordre one was placed in the highest place for the auoiding of schismes And if a prieste by S. Hieromes minde may doe as muche as a bishop I thinke also one bishop may by goddes lawe doe as muche as an other bishop Beholde here good reader in M. Nowell a singuler Dorman pointe of false and vntrue dealing which although it be with him in this booke of his and other his companions in their other doinges a thing verie common and therfore the lesse to be merueiled at yeat surelie is it in the wresting of this place of S. Hierome of all other moste euident to be perceiued For whereas S. Hierome in his Dialogues against the Luciferians hath that this ordre in the churche that the bishop confirmeth those that are Christened not the prieste was taken rather for the honour of priestehode then for the necessitie of the lawe M. Nowell to make the matter S. Hierom beelied by M. Nowell 29. probable that this ordre of hauing one heade in the church shoulde not be grounded vpon goddes worde and that there is no necessitie in it but done rather to honour priesthode applieth it to these wordes of S. Hierome to Euagrius where in expresse wordes he hathe that the appointing one to rule and gouerne the rest was to be a remedie against schismes For the better vnderstanding of this false dealing of his I shall wishe those that either haue not the worckes of S. Hierome at hande or if they haue vnderstande not them in Latine or if they doe can not so easelie turne to the place to considre them as they folowe here in this place Quôd si hoc loco quaeris quare in ecclesia baptizatus nisi per manus episcopi non accipiat spiritum sanctum quem nos asserimus in vero baptismate tribui disce hanc obseruationem ex ea authoritate descendere quod post ascensum domini spiritus Hieron in dialog aduer Lucifer sanctus ad apostolos descendit Et multis in locis idem factitatum reperimus ad honorem potius sacer dotij quam ad legis necessitatem Alioqui si ad episcopi tantum imprecationem spiritus sanctus defluit lugēdi sunt qui in viculis aut castellis aut in remotioribus locis per praesbiteros diaconos baptizati ante dormierunt quà m ab episcopis inuiserentur That is to saye But if in this place thow aske of me wherfore he that is baptised in the church dothe not receiue the holie ghost but byt he handes of the bisshop the which holye ghost we doe all affirme to be giuen in true baptisme Learne this obseruation to come of that auctoritie that after the ascension of oure lorde the holie ghost came downe to the Apostles And we finde that the same is done in manie places rather for the honour of priestehode then of necessitie of the lawe Els if the holie ghost come downe only at the praier of the bishop they are to be lamented who being baptised by priestes and deacons in litle townes or villages or places further of doe dye before they be visited by the bishoppes Hetherto the wordes of S. Hierome Nexte after the whiche because it foloweth that the high prieste must haue auctoritie peerelesse aboue all other otherwise that there will be as manie schismes in the churche as there be priestes M. Nowell thinketh that he might vnderstand both the peerelesse auctoritie aboue all other that is mentioned in the dialogue against the Luciferians and the preeminence that one had giuen to rule the rest as for a remedye against schismes spoken off in this epistle to Euagrius to be ment of onely power to confirme children or other lately baptised which because bishoppes had and priestes had not he thinketh S. Hierome should call by the name of a peerelesse power able to be a remedie against all schismes For so vnderstandeth he this place here and before fol. 41. b. 20. But nowe I praye yow let me aske of you M. Nowell when S. Hierome had saide that this obseruation that the bishop shoulde confirme and not the prieste came of this that the holie ghoste after Christes ascension came downe to the Apostles when he added Et multis in locis idem factitatum reperimus c. And in manie places we finde the same to be done rather for the honour of priestehod then necessitie of the lawe What idem what same thing constrew M. Nowell was it that was so done to honour priesthode rather then for necessitie Was not it the ministring of the Sacrament of Confirmation Doe not the wordes that folowe nexte after Alioqui si ad episcopi c. Otherwise if the holye ghoste come downe only at the praier of the bishop c. spoken to proue that there was no suche necessitie of the Sacrament of Confirmation as thoughe to them that dwelling far from the bishop and dieng before they were confirmed the holye ghost shoulde not be giuen in baptisme euidently conuince that S. Hierome ment off that pointe of preeminence that the bishop hathe aboue a prieste in ministring of this sacrament that that was not of the necessitie of the lawe c not of that power of gouernement that we dispute of But what labour I to conuince this wresting of youres to belieng and vntrue which who so euer shall reade the place can not but presently perceiue if he haue his common senses Who is so verie a dolt that when he heareth you bringing in S. Hierome prouiding for the peace of the churche that is the auoiding off schismes this souereigne remedie that the bishop of euerye diocesse maye confirme children or other lately baptised which the priestes cā not do and that there in cōsisteth his peerelesse power wil not be able to tel you that this reason procedeth from some franticke braine M. Nowell not frō the staied and graue heade of S. Hierome For what staye for schismes what remedie against heresies were it like to be tell vs I coniure you by youre wisedome that first founde out this speciall remedie if
nombre of priestes there ought to be one chiefe ruler chosen as though only Petre had bene a bishop and the other apostles pore priestes and no more Where is nowe the equalitie that you are wont to obiect to vs of the Apostles with Petre Who maketh the Apostles more inferiour to Peter you or we We saie the Apostles all of them were bishoppes in one place or other you make youre count that they were only inferiour priestes Now being all of them bishoppes and Peter by youre confession their heade Who seeth not that the ordre planted by Christe in his church is that there be one bishop for the pacifieng of schismes ouer the rest Againe if 12. persones so well instructed by the spirite of God as the Apostles were had a heade appointed ouer them for remedie against schismes what reason leadeth yow to thinke that emongest so manye â—ades as be in the vniuersall churche gouernours of particuler churches not so priuileaged with grace there maye not be the like yea greater cause to feare schismes and so consequently that there ought not to be the same remedie that is to saye one heade So that if you counte youre selfe hurt when it is proued that there ought to be one chiefe heade of Christes churche you are by graunting of this prerogatiue to S. Peter aboue the rest of the Apostles verie daungerously hurte Yea but you were prouided for all suche after clappes before I doubte not Other wise so circumspect a man as you are woulde neuer haue yealded so farre And therfore you adde And if M. Dorman vpon this graunte woulde inferre suche a Nowell supremacie of one ouer the rest of the Apostles as the pope claimeth ouer the churche S. Paule reprouing Peter more sharpely Galat. 2. to his face then is laufull nowe for any bishop to deale with the pope dothe proue that Peter had no suche supremacy One thing I must here tell you by the waie M. Nowell Dorman that in debating this matter of the auctoritie of S. Peter aboue the rest of the Apostles except you forsake S. Hierome you must forgo this example of S. Paule his reprouing of S. Peter which S. Hierome holdeth against S. Austen how truly I dispute not in this place to haue bene but a made matter betwene them that Paule shoulde reprehende and Peter suffer him selfe to be reprehendid for vsing the legall ceremonies as appeareth in the epistles written to and fro betwene them And therfore if you will be tried by S. Hierome he shoulde rather holde with this supremacie as the man who if he erred in striuing with S. Austen about this reprehending of Peter erred onely because he thought it a thing vnsemely and vnlikely that S. Paule woulde so reprehende the prince of the Apostles Which was he saieth the cause why Origen and other to stoppe the mouthe of Porphirius the heretike who laied to S. Paules charge that he was ouerbolde to reprehende Peter the chiefe of the Apostles expounded this place as he did But leauing S. Hierome and graunting that Peter was truly and in deede reprehended by S. Paule let vs examine whether suche a supremacie as is here spoken of maie not by the iudgement of the learned fathers of Christes churche stande wel inough for all this reprouing of S. Peter vsed by S. Paule I will emongest other alleage to this purpose two only S. Cyprian and S. Austen Epist ad Quintum The wordes S. Cyprian are these Naâ— nec Petrus quem primum dominus elegit super quem aedificauit ecclesiam suam c. For neither Pure whome oure lorde chose to be the chiefe and vpon whome he builded his church when he contended after with Paule about circuÌ„cision reuenged him selfe or chalenged anie thing insolently or arrogaÌ„tly in saing that he had the primacy and that he ought rather to be obeied of those that were nouices and came after Thus farre S. Cyprian With whome agreeth S. Austen as he that alleageth this verie place to proue that S. Cyprian to whose auctoritie the Donatistes leaned Lib. 2. de baptis contra Donatist ea for the baptising againe of suche as were Christened by heretikes woulde easely suffer him selfe for his humilitie being but one bishop or the doinges of his owne prouince either to be corrected by the statutes of the whole churche seing that he praised S. Peter in whome was the primacie of the Apostles for the same vertue of humilitie in suffering him selfe to be reproued of S. Paule Thus it appeareth that S. Paules resisting of S. Peter was no derogatioÌ„ to S. Peters auctoritie as the which by the confessioÌ„ of both these learned fathers remained saufe and whole notwithstanding the reprehension of S. Paule and withall that you and your fellowes M. Nowell who vse so often to the derogation of S. Peters auctoritie to cite this place of the epistle Galat. 2. to the Galathians doe shamefully abuse the same with no small iniurie to the blessed apostles bothe But yeat you fare that I haue saide nothing all this while to this that Peters supremacie was no suche as is the popes whome no man may blame what so euer he doe Yes sir the pope maie be blamed Neither doe the texte nor the glose by you here alleaged saye the contrarie And so haue diuerse good men freelie reprehended diuerse popes S. Bernard a moÌ„ke reprehended Eugenius the third more sharpely iwisse as youre selues can full well tel and therfore make much of him in that respect then euer did S. Paule reproue S. Petre. Paulus 4. was admonished by lettres writteÌ„ by one in Rome of the vnhonest behauiour of his nephues the two Caraffas He toke the aduertisemeÌ„t in good parte and banished them the courte immediatly What should I remembre the lettres written by Petrus a So to a frier also to Pius the pope that nowe is wherin he admonished him freely to take ordre that bishoppes and other inferiour pastours might be compelled Dat. Tridenti 17. Aprilis Anno Do. 1563. Nowell fol. 44. b. 24. to kepe resideÌ„ce with their charges and threatened to him vtter daÌ„nation in the iudgemeÌ„t of God vnlesse he did It foloweth not you saye that one being chosen to beruler emongest twelue that therefore one maie be also chosen to be ruler ouer all the cleargie of the worlde No more do the it that because there was one chosen of euerye one churche or diocesse to rule the reste that therefore there shoulde be one chosen to rule all bishoppes of all diocesses namely at Rome and the saide ruler to be called pope or heade of the vniuersall churche The first answere touching that one heade emongest Dorman Institut li. 4. cap. 6. Sect. 8. fol. 53. a. b the Apostles you learned of youre Maister Caluin against whome I haue proued that the consequent holdeth verye well in my first booke The argument I haue showed oftentimes howe it holdeth and last of all in the
not by lawe As fast as you saie I laied on loade of not onelie popishe witnesses but popes them selues for popes I thinke it will be harde for you to name but one beside Leo Innocentius and Gregorie the first whose sainges I alleaged And why I brought those rather then other I showed good cause I denie not yeat for all that but that euen this onely Leo I thinke is a heauier loade then yow woulde be gladde to beare That I yealded so muche at that time as to omit the testimonies of those notable popes I repent me therof By popishe witnesses you can meane no other but the fathers off Christes church and those to within the first six hundred yeares for other I alleaged none If as you would discredite A shift of M. Nowelles not hearde of before to discredite all the fathers that make for the popes auctoritie the popes because they be popes so you will discredite these auÌ„cient writers because they be popish and write for the pope then you haue founde a more neare waie I confesse then M. Iuell coulde Who alloweth all within the first 600. yeares As before for the fundatioÌ„ of this your first exceptioÌ„ you laied a false sclaunderouse lye to builde vpon so now to vnderprop the same vnder the colour off a more reasonable cause of exceptioÌ„ you bring in a feined story of Sozimus bisshop of Rome who you saie did falsefie the decrees of the Nicene councel whereupon you will conclude that neither Leo b. 3. nor anye other pope neither is to be beleued in this matter Not vnlike to the foolishe gentle woman that sware she woulde neuer loue oure Ladie more because she was a Iewe borne and the Iewes had put Christe to deathe I knowe I shall seme to manie men to digresse to far from my purpose in folowing youre rouing from the matter yeat something will I saye thereto because I knowe it to be one of the principall baites whiche suche fishers as you be M. Nowell vse to laye to bring men from the obedience of the Sea of Rome and hetherto in oure English tongue nothing hath bene answered thereto But because it is here impertinently entermedled with the answere to Leo I will first to auoide confusion ende that matter and then handle the other by it selfe Yow saye that Pighius affirmeth and I denye that the title Nowell fol. 48. a. 9 off oecumenicall or vniuersall Patriarke apperteineth to the bisshop of Rome of right and that therefore there must nedes be some erroure You report vntrulye of me M. Nowell Loke better vpon Dorman the place I reherse there the wordes of S. Gregorye who reprehended Iohn the B. of Constantinople for taking on him the name of vniuersall bishop Which title although it perteined to that Iohn in no sense and was as he affected it a prophane title and altogether mete for Antichrist yeat in that sense and meaning that it belonged to S. Gregorie in which sense onelye it is to be taken when it is applyed to the bishop of Rome I denied it not to perteine to the pope Thus doe Pighius and I agree Thus is there no errour thus goe you forwarde to encrease the numbre Lye 33. of youre lyes Yow merueile greatly that Leo woulde so ambitiously chalenge Nowell a. 14. in this epistle the same title in effect which he refused so freely offred vnto him by the whole councell c. LEO Gregorie after him Pius whiche is nowe nor Dorman anye pope that euer was before did striue about titles yow maye be suer The best title that they haue eche off them hathe bene and is to be called Seruus seruorum Dei the seruaunt of the Seruauntes of God But of this maye be merueiled more in what schole yow haue learned this manner with him that of humiltie refuseth suche titles as seme to gloriouse to deale so hardelye that because he refuseth the name he must nedes be depriued of the thinge The histories make mention that Vitellius the emperoure woulde neither be called Augustus nor Cesar Cesar refused the name of kinge Augustus and Antonius of Lordes Woulde youre wisedome haue serued yow nowe M. Nowell if you had liued in their time to denie them their Emperiall kingly and lordly auctoritie because they woulde not be called by suche names The councel is no councel where the heade is absent or â— â—0 coÌ„senteth not being present and therfore if here this coÌ„panie gathered togather in giuing this title to the pope had iudged amisse yet had not the councell erred I denie not as you saie I doe that the councell did well bothe the councell did well in offring a name mete to expresse the auctoritie which the pope had and so erred not and the bishop also well to refuse the same Except yow will saye that S. Paule when he refused the almoise and charitie off good 1. Cor. 9. men either did euell in refusing it or they euill in offring it The pope claimeth not this title no more then Leo dyd accepte it being offred Calle him by what sobre honeste name you list Graunte him the auctoritie due to him let all titles goe This is that whiche the pope claimeth and you ought not to denie This is that whiche Leo most modestly not as yow falselye terme it ambitiously chalenged to Peters seate Nowe let all reasonable men iudge hardely of the goodnesse of this exception whiche is a. 24. youre first The seconde exception that you vse against this testimonie of Leo for now yow saie yow will goe an other waye Nowell a. 28. to worke with me is that Leo saieth here vntruelye if these be Leo his wordes for that yow saye is yeat in controuersie But before you proue it yow will first aske me a question whether I haue trulye translated the place and iff I haue howe I can make these wordes in this epistle there is one dignitie common to all bishoppes to agree with these folowing there is difference of power emongest them and it is giuen to one to be aboue all the reste whose iudgement is of moste auctoritie b. 1. and howe this man is not in dignitie differing from the rest Yow doe like a wise man to goe an other awaye to worke Dorman for some men thinke you did but plaie before But I merueile why you shoulde put anie doubtes whether these be Leo his wordes or no seing that Caluin confesseth this epistle to be true and to be his To youre first question I answere that I haue translated this place trulye according to the copie printed at Colein anno 1561. To the next moued vpon this how then I can make these wordes agree one dignitie common to all and difference of power that they agree thus that allthough they haue all one dignitie of priestehode or bishoprike that yeat there is difference of power in iurisdiction If spirituall examples like yow not if you can not
in the easte churches that they might the rather ouerronne the catholikes The one parte giueth a perfect cause of their testimonie because they were present when the matter was concluded Imagine nowe the other who hauing sought in the east churche for suche a decree saide they founde no suche to saie which they doe not that they had harde of some that were present at the councell that there was no suche thing decreed which witnesses were to be beleuid This that hath bene saide maye seme I doubte not to anye reasonable man a sufficient cause why we ought to giue full credite to Athanasius and those other bishoppes and pronounce for the innocencie of Zozimus Yeat to make it the better appeare how true it is that Athanasius Manie canons made in the 1. councell of Nice that we haue not nowe saieth of the burning of the Nicene canons I will note vnto yow certeine canons which the fathers and stories off the churche witnes to haue bene concluded in that councell which yeat are not emongest those twentie whiche we haue I will first beginne with S. Ambrose who telleth you M. Nowell that you haue done euell being twise maried Epi. 82. li. 10. colū 11 Note M. Nowell to thrust youre selfe into the ministerie of the church not only because the apostle he saieth forbiddeth it but the fathers also in the councell of Nice S. Augustin reporteth that there was a decree made in the councell of Nice that a bishop shoulde not ordeine his Epist 110. successour bshiop with him notwithstanding that him selfe he confessed by ignorance thereof was so ordeined by Valerius his bishop and predecessour Iustinian the emperour saith that it was defined by the first foure generall councels that the B. of Rome should be Constitut 131. the chiefe of all other priestes S. Hierome saieth that the booke of Iudith was counted emongest the canonicall by the fathers of Nice In praefat in Iudith Theodoritus alleageth a decree of giuing ecclesiasticall degrees of consecrating bishops made also by the councell of Nice Lib. 5. cap. 9. Leo affirmeth that there was an other canon touching the doctrine of Christes incarnation Epist ad Leonē 78. Where is there anie canon of the obseruation of the Easter daye the desire of the vniforme obseruation whereof Histor tripart lib. 1. cap. vlt. Haere 70. Lib. 2. ca. 2 was one cause why the councell of Nice was called Yeat dothe bothe Epiphanius and the tripartite historye make mentiō of a decree made by the fathers touching the same Youre Apologie citeth out of the councell off Nice that we ought not to be humiliter intēti ad panem et vinum ouer basely bent to breade and wine We confesse it to be true but shew you it emongest the canons Who doubteth that the councell of Nice was assembled together against Arrius Yeat shewe one canon againste him emongest the 20. that remaine Was there thinke yow none made That were surely a strange matter that in the whole doinges thereof nothing should haue bene concluded against him for the repressing of whome the councell was specially called together Howe saye you now M. Nowell is it likely that the Arrians burned the canons of the councel or no Are all these falsaries and corrupters that haue alleaged thus manye canons to be of the councell of Nice because at this daye there is none of them extant I thinke you will not saye so If yow will not why Zozimus more then they Yes you saye there is an other cause why if not Zozimus for I thinke by this tyme you be ashamed of that matter yeat some other hath fasified those canons What is that I praye yow Because there appeared in the copies sent from the Easte the Nowell fol. 47. a. 11. cleane contrarye to that whiche the pope claimeth For the sixt and seuenth decree off the sayde Nicene councell make the patriarkes of Alexandria Antiochia and Hierusalem equall with the bisshoppes of Rome Trulye if it had bene so it is merueile that Athanasius Dorman who was there present shoulde haue bene ignorant of it Therefore excepte you will saye that either this epistle is feined and not Athanasius owne as that is wont in other auctorities brought against yow to be youre common and last refuge when you be sore pressed which if you doe you must not onelye saye it but proue it also Or that his memorie was so euill that he coulde not remembre so notable a thing so latelye before done or his malice so greate that he woulde faine that which neuer was done you muste nedes graunte that this sixt and seuenth canon haue an other meaning then to make the patriarkes of Alexandria Antiochia and Hierusalem equall with the bishoppes off Rome And so haue they in dede For the true meaning of The true vnderstanding of the 6. and 7. canon of the councel of Nice them is to appoint the limites and boundes of those primates iurisdictions of whom mention is there made according to the custome of the bishop of Rome As the wordes whiche answere trulye to the greke and are in Latine these doe wel declare Antiqui mores obtineant in Agipto Libia Pentapoli vt Alexandrinus horum omnium habeat potestatem quia episcopo Romano hoc consuetum est Similiter etiam per Antiochiam in caeteris prouincijs priuilegia seruentur ecclesijs Let olde customes be kepte in Aegypt Libia and Pentapoli that the B. of Alexandria haue the auctoritie ouer them all for as muche as the B. of Romes maner is suche Semblablye also thorough out Antioche and in other prouinces let the churches haue their priuileges kepte These wordes of the councell as they doe nothing at all diminishe the B. of Romes auctoritie so doe they confirme it verie muche The reason of the councell why the iurisdiction of the B. of Alexandria shoulde extende so far being beside the auncient custome in those partes the custome also of the B. Rome who it is to be thought vsed of long time so to alow it by conteining in his rescriptes those prouinces vnder the patriarchie of Alexandria Which was now brought as an argumēt to confirme and continue the same For this meaning that they should be all equall in power and auctoritie there is no worde there able to induce Except a man woulde bring in those graue fathers reasoning thus foolishely because the B. of Rome hath iurisdictiō ouer his owne bishoprike for more you giue him not and the councell nameth no place at all therfore the B. of Alexandria shall haue iurisdiction ouer all the bishoppes of Aegipt Libia and Pentapoli Had not this bene thinke you a goodly making of them equall If you will saie that the councell ment that the B. of Rome shoulde be patriarke in the west partes and therein they shoulde be equall beside that there be no suche wordes in the councell to inforce suche a meaning yeat shoulde
vnto the whiche doubtes of greate importaunce maye be referred then to haue manie in manie places and euerie one without respect to one chiefe to doe as he shall thinke good Howe thinke you M. Nowell is it not better in one familie to haue one Maister in one citye one Maior in one shiere one lieutenant then in a familye manie maisters in a citie manie Maiors in a shiere many lieutenātes I know not who gouerneth in your house your wife or you or bothe but this I thinke I maye be bolde to saye that if youre wife were not quarter maister onely but as muche maister as you that you were not therefore in better case then youre nexte neighbour that had the whole rule of his house him selfe Iff the streightes off youre owne house like you not loke vpon the largenes of the whole realme and iudge whether it be better to haue one liege souereigne or manie Yow hearde S. Augustines opinion Lib. de verarelig ca. 25. a better diuine I trowe then yowe touching this matter before concluding that their auctoritie was greater and they of better credite that reduced all thinges to one God because in the worckes of nature he saied it was so So in the churche M. Nowell seing that as God is one the faithe is also one one heade is better to conserue that one faithe and the vnitie thereof then many Therefore if the Iues had one heade bishoppe and the churche diuerse heades it is by all reason worse prouided for Excepte you will saie that to haue manie equall rulers in one bodie in one common wealthe is better then to haue only one Which notwitstanding before yow resembled to their fantasy who woulde haue manie equall goddes to rule the worlde But yow saie there is muche labour and paines saued Here while yow seke for ease yow leese vnitie while yowe diminishe paines yow prepare the high waie to the multiplieng off schismes Yow haue an eye to the resorting to that one heade from all places of the worlde but yow considre not the fruite of peace and vnitie that is thereby procured Make diuerse equall heades in the churche and you shall neuer be hable to auoide schismes in the same whiche S. Hierome as yow hearde before saieth can not be kepte out of particuler churches without there be one prieste of perelesse auctoritie aboue the rest Now let the learned reader iudge whether paines be well redemed by suche an inestimable benefite Yow clatter still that this heade emongest the Iues was but of one nation I tell yowe againe as I dyd before it was the churche that God had in earthe at that time But M. Dorman dealeth not truly with the Apologie c. The Nowell fo 62. b. 7 Apologie saieth that as the church decaied in the olde lawe where was the same God the same Christe the same holie ghoste c. then as is nowe so maie it and hath it decaied now M. Dorman handleth the matter as though he coulde proue by the Apologie that because where was the same God the same Christe the same holie ghost c. in the Iuishe church as is nowe therfore must there be one heade bishopp ouer all the christian churches thorough out the world as there was one heade bishop ouer all the Iues whiche foloweth no more then that we muste haue circumcision nowe for that the Iues had it then I merueile that yow be not ashamed to make anie mention Dorman The reason of the Apologie The church decaied in the olde lawe ergo it maie and hathe decaied in the newe confuted of that foolishe false and blasphemouse reason vsed by the Apologie For the concealing whereof reason woulde yow shoulde rather haue thanked me then haue accused me of vntrue dealing But wilt thow see good Reader how vntrulie I haue delt Forsothe because the proposition off one God one Christe c. brought by the Apologie serued not for the proufe of that for whiche it was brought I vsed it being a generall and true maxime to proue a true conclusion But why shoulde it not serue his purpose as well yow will saie as mine I will tell yow the cause One especiall cause why this argument of the Apologie The Synagoge hath decaied Ergo the church hath decaied defended here stoutely by M. Nowell shoulde not be good is because God hathe made other maner of promises for the continuance of his church then euer he made to the Synagoge He hath promised that hell gates shall not preuaile Matth. 16. against it This were not true if it had bene either these 15. or nine hundred yeares either ouerrun with heresies He hath appointed it to continue with the sonne and to remaine till the monel be taken awaie If because the churche Psalm 71. of the olde lawe was brought to that paucitie that some times there were but eight as in Noes time or but Elias alone Gen. 7. as he was persuaded but yeat in dede 7000. mo as God tolde him and that in Israel for in Iuda notwithstanding 3. Reg. 19. the churche florished although your Apologie had not reade so farre If I saie the churche of Christe might after 15. hundred yeares continuance be brought to the same case In the Portress◠the 6. 7. 8. and 10. chapitres nowe where were all these promises with diuerse other diligently of late gathered together made to the churche and of the churche If because in the olde lawe God was Notus in Iudea in Israel magnum nomen ei us knowen in Psalm 75. Iurie and his name greate in Israel but so no farder it maie be laufull for yow to defende youre secrete conuenticles at Geneua or elles where where is then thorough out all nations Lucae 24. beginning at Hierusalem Where is the prophecie of Dauid spoken before hande of Christes kingdome the churche that it shoulde rule from sea to sea and from the floud to the Psalm 71. ende of the worlde Seing therefore these greate promises haue bene made by all mightie God to the churche whereas to the Synagoge the figure thereof there were made no such although it decaied although at the last it vanished awaie as the priestehod and lawe did we can not conclude that therfore the same should happen to the church which hath other maner of staies to holde it vp The compilers of youre Apologie might be ashamed M. Nowell if they had not abandoned all shame and honestie to abuse after this sorte the examples of the holie scripture to proue that Christes churche might faile because in the olde lawe it was brought to some pancitie◠whiche reason they borowed of the Donatistes those wicked heretikes as appeareth by Saint Augustine who confuteth the same And Lib. de vnitat eccle cap. 12. thus haue I shewed you M. Nowell a cause why this saing of youre Apologie could not be applied to the churche of Christe that is nowe it remaineth that I answere
thought that he woulde in this case make lesse prouision for his churche then a temporall king will for the due administration of his lawes and the preseruing of vnitie emongest his subiectes Neither is it anie iniurie to the scripture or derogatiō to the maiestie thereof that the malice of men maketh it lesse sufficient to condemne heresies especially seing as Tertullian saieth the scriptures haue bene Lib. de praescript haeretic 1. Cor. 11. by the will off God so disposed as that they might ministre matter to heretikes seing it is writtē that there must be heresies which cā not be withowt the scriptures To this obiection of myne that the scriptures be so written that there was neuer heretike yeat that dyd not alleage scripture for the maintenaūce of the same and that thought not by the scriptures him selfe wel able to defende the same note I besech the good reader that M. Nowel maketh here no answere at al. Onely he maketh against this an other obiectiō that so the pope maye vnder b. 5. the name of the church mainteine and defende all errours and superstitions Whiche if it were true what woulde folowe other of this conclusion but that there shoulde be no iudge at all Is not this a propre kinde of answering trowe you But because the matter shall not remaine in that incerteintie I will M. Nowell answere youre reason although you woulde not answere mine I saye therefore that the pope as heade of Christes churche that is to saye defining or decreeing anye thinge concerning the affaires and busines thereof neuer erred yeat nor euer shall I proue it by auctoritye and by reason By the auctoritie of oure Sauiour him selfe who praing that Peters faithe might not faile coulde Lucae 22. not but obteine Whiche priuileage so obteined seing that Christe builded his churche not to continue for Peters lyfe tyme but for euer we maye not doubte but that it was giuen also to his successours S. Augustine as I noted before Epis 165. applied the wordes of Christ spoken of the Phariseis sitting in Moises chaire Quae dicunt facite quae autem faciunt Matth. 23. nolite facere Loke what they bid you doe doe it but do not as they do to the bishoppes of Rome succeding Peter and addeth that in so doing oure faithe shal be suer and certeine as the whiche being placed not in man but on God can neuer be scattred with anye tempest of schisme You haue the auctoritie of the Scripture you haue the iudgement of S. Augustine that Peters faithe shall continue in him and in his successours that to doe as they commaunde is to make oure faithe suer and defensible against the tempestes of all schismaticall stormes Now harken to reason Christe promised for euer to abide with his churche S. Paule calleth it the Matt. 28. 1. Timo. 3. piller of truthe If Christe be with it it can not erre if it be the piller of truth it admitteth no falsehode if it can admit no falsehode the pope whiche is the heade thereof and appointed by God to gouerne it in earthe can not in the gouernement thereof erre For if the heade might erre then might the whole body which is bound to folow the heade And thus bothe by auctoritie and reason by experience of these 1500. yeares it appeareth that there is greate difference betwene the two likelihodes that you put in the pope and in other priuate men touching the interpretatiō of the scripture And therefore vppon the ouerthrowe of this downe commeth all that you builde thereupon eitherin this place or elles where Hauing nowe taken youre pleasure sufficiently at vs comparing vs with Annas and Caiphas calling vs theeues aduersaries of the ghospell guiltie of manye heresies corruptions of religion and false superstitions you entre in to a common place of councelles whereof you saye as foloweth But the aduersaries off the Ghospell deale thus with vs Nowell b. 20. The Pope and all hys cleargye being guiltie off manye heresies c. and thereof accused doe assemble them selues together in a councell in the whiche nothing maye be moued muche lesse determined but suche as pleaseth the Pope him selfe there is enquirie made of vs who doe accuse them thereoff and offer to proue it and there vnhearde and vnseene we are condemned of our aduersaries c. Yow here note in the margent for the proufe hereof Dorman that nothing maie be moued in the councell but suche as pleaseth the pope Pighius in his 6. booke and first chapitre of his Hierarchie This place yowe alleaged before As I tolde you then so doe I nowe that you haue beelied Pighius Supra fol. 24. b. For he saieth not as you doe here that nothing maie be moued in the councell but suche as pleaseth the pope He saieth Haud feré fit almoste it is not otherwise not denieng as you saye he dothe that it can not be otherwise The wordes of Pighius note rather the greate diligence of the pope whiche is suche that when all the worlde shall meete together in a generall councell they can not for the moste parte name anye thinge to be refourmed or concluded that the Bishoppe of Rome with his learned councell about him hath not before forseene and handled then take awaye libertie from anye man to moue anie doubte to be resolued not considered before by the pope That the pope moueth ordinarily suche doubtes to the councell i st that offende you be angry with S. Peter his predecessour who practised the same first in the generall councell mentioned in the Actes of thapostles You accuse the pope and his and Act. 15. offer to proue it It is in deede the cōmon bragge of you al to saie you can proue vs Phariseis corrupters of religiō that the churche of Christe hathe vtterly failed and so furth The whiche if yow feare to proue in generall councelles yeat yow might me thinketh giue vs a taste of your prouffes in youre poisoned writinges To that that yowe complaine that yow are condemned vnhearde and vnsene we saie as yow gessed we woulde that yow might be hearde if yow listed against the whiche answere of oures yow replie How we are called and how we maie be heard let Iohn Husse Nowell fo 70. a. 2 called by the emperour Sigismunde his saulfe conduct vnder his greate emperiall seale to the councell of Constance with Hierom of Prague who bothe were contrary to the faithe giuen them by the greatest christian prince in the world condemned and burned to asshes be an eternall witnesse yea let their owne decree made in the saide councell which was that no faithe nor promise is to be kepte to anie heretike nor that anie man by anie promise standeth bounde to an heretike c. be a perpetuall testimonye off the same Beholde howe manie lyes in howe fewe lynes Iohn Dorman Husse being called to the councell of Constance brake the conditions of his saulfe conduct
or perhappes the solemne cuppe councell in Martin Luthers house at Wittemberg as I am to defend the couÌ„cel of Nice Ephesus or LateranuÌ„ Well M. Nowell neither shall you at this tyme bring furthe youre Confession of Augspurg or the solemne conclusion agreed vpon at Martin Luthers house nor I wil alleage Howe S. AusteÌ„ renounced the auctoritie of the Nicene councell either the councell of Nice Ephesus or Lateranum but the scriptures c. then I saie you coulde proue hereby that I who trusting vppon the goodnesse of the cause quit for the tyme the alleaging of the councelles were of the minde that the auctoritye of the councelles made nothing for the decision of controuersies And that this was the meaning of S. Augustine to relinquishe onelye for that present tyme the auctoritie of the councell off Nice that the heretike might forsake his schismaticall councell not that he estemed either the councell of Nice or anie other laufull generall councell so lightly as yow suppose bothe this aduerbe nunc nowe whose nature is to limite and restreine whiche yowe fearing lest it woulde marre all the marcket and perceiuing that it woulde be harde to deceiue the learnedersorte with this place alleaged trulie in A lie by omission 65. the latine but left owt in the englishe thinking that youre parte shoulde be well enough plaied if yowe were able to blinde the ignorant and vnlearned bothe dothe this I saie argue the meaning of S. Austen to be as I saie and not as yow pretende and also that he dothe euerie where against the Donatistes alleage Concilium plaenarium totius orbis the Lib. 1. de baptis contra Donat. cap. 18. Epist 118. ad Ianuar. fo 72. a. 3. S. Austen beelied â—â— Howe the scripture is iudge and howe it is not iudge of aâ— controuersies full councell of all the world and saieth of councelles quorum est in ecclesia saluberima auctoritas whose auctoritie is in the churche moste wholesome It is not to be forgotten in this place that where S. Austen calleth the scripture by the name of a witnes yowe conclude that he calleth the scripture iudge Which if he had done might easelie haue bene answered to be true also when the churche hathe declared what the scripture ment As the lawes of all countries are the iudges of suche controuersies as rise there but not the iudges alone because they be subiecte to wrangling interpretations and therefore requier an other iudge to iudge their meaning But seing S. Austen calleth not the scripture iudge but witnes yowe haue delt vntrulie by concluding more vpon his wordes then is in them To the places brought here by yowe owt of Chrisostome Fol. 72. â— â–ª I answere that we saie as muche in the commendation of holie scripture as he doeth For none of those places make holie scripture the onelie sufficient triall of all controuersies Therefore where as they saie we muste beleue scripture rather then men that if we woulde beleue them we shoulde fall in to no errours we graunte it to be true in scripture as it is deliuered by the fathers and expounded by the church For the first place of S. Hierom he there reiected an allegation of vncerteine auctoritie commonly called ApocriphuÌ„ about the person of that Zachary which was slaine betwene Matth. 23. the teÌ„ple and the altar which because he knewe was not receiued by vniuersall tradition there remained no other grounde of prouing it but by scripture where sith it was not he might well saie it is as easely contemned as proued M. Nowelles ignorance in the writâ—nges off the fathers The laste place non adferamus stateras dolosas c. is not S. Hieromes as yow trusting ouer much Gratianus to whom belike yow haue recourse for youre auctorities owt of the doctours to auoide either furder paine either elles because yow delight not muche in suche companie reporte it here Lib. 2. de baptis cap. 6. to be It is taken owt of S. Austin M. Nowell a token that manie a man speaketh to vse the olde Englishe prouerbe of Robin hood that neuer shot in his bow and maketh nothing against me who wishe you would in dede way thinges with lesse deceitefull waightes of scripture theÌ„ you doe The places here noted owt of S. Austen and Chrisostom B. 14. touching the conference of one place of scripture with an other of the darcke and obscure with the clere and light are brought to proue conference to be good and proffitable which we denie not But that which we denie and therfore yow shoulde haue proued neither those places nor anie other that yow haue alleaged doe proue First that allwaies suche conference can assure vs of the true meaning of the scripture secondarily that in this conferring of places there is no difficultie varietie or vncerteintie which we affirme and proue to be because to one man to the Lutheran it semeth that hoc est corpus meum this is my bodie and verbum caro factum est the word is made flesh are places of like phrase and speache to yow M. Nowell it semeth that Ego sum vitis vera I am a true vyne is like to this This is my bodie Why yow will saie I haue proued this by Chrisostome who saieth Ad ipsum diuinae scripturae scopum accedamus quae Chrisost in 2. cap. Gen. Homil 13. seipsam interpretatur and againe Sacra scriptura seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Let vs come to the marcke of the holie scripture whiche expoundeth it selfe The holie scripture expouÌ„deth it selfe and suffereth not the hearer to erre I knowe that these be Chrisostomes wordes I knowe that they make nothing for your purpose I knowe and be it knowen to all men that they are most shamefully by yowe abused and mangled For whereas Chrisostome confuting the errour of those that grounding them selues vpon this place of Genesis inspirauit in faciem eius Gen. 2. spiraculum vitae and he breathed vpon his face the breathe of life mainteined that the soule of man was off the same essence withe God where I saie Chrisostome specially in this pointe saieth that the scripture expoundeth it selfe you make him generally to saye that the scripture dothe so in all doubtes The whiche to persuade the better whereas the laste of those two sentences of Chrisostome by yowe alleaged hathe thus quamuis sacra scriptura quum nos tale Chrisostomes wordes mangled by M. Nowell quiddam docere vult seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Allthough the holye scripture when it wyll teache vs anye suche thinge expoundeth it selfe and suffereth not the hearer to erre yowe mangling the sentence cutt awaie the middle wordes quum nos tale quiddam docere vult when it will teache vs anie such thing lest by those wordes the reader might vnderstande that Chrisostome gaue there no general rule but spake onely of that special pointe
or some other like vnto it If this were not youre meaning M. Nowell why cut you of the worde quaÌ„uis at the beginning and these other in the middest Tell vs some other cause if you can Next after these auctorities you alleage a treatie of one fo 73. a. Borowed of the coÌ„fession of wittenberge Tit. de Eccles that you set furth Rhetorically calling him an auncient auctor printed withe Chrisostome and of long time taken for him to proue that the churche must be tried by the scriptures To this place I answere that whether it be Chrisostomes owne worcke from whence it is taken or no this is a thing moste certeine that it is to be warily readen as the boke which hath thrust into it if it be Chrisostomes owne or anie other catholike mannes by some false Arrian heretike manie poisoned and perniciouse sentences for the maintenaunce of the Arrians heresie Emongest other to note to you one or two euen in the. 48. homilie whiche is the verie nexte before this that you alleage here the Catholikes for mainteining the equalitie of Christe with God the father are nombred emongest heretikes and in the. 45. they are called heretikes that holde that the blessed trinitie is equall of like substance and auctoritie And therefore in suche places as this auctor who so euer it be dissenteth from the common faithe of Christes churche we haue iust cause to suspect that there this heretike who hath it appeareth ouerronne the whole hath dipped in his fingres and therefore that we reiect As in this place it is likely that he thought to make a waie for his heresies by chalenging to be tried by the scripture onelie the common request of the Arrian heretikes because the worde they saide Homousion was not to be founde in the scriptures But nowe if these wordes were Chrisostomes owne and not put in by the heretike yeat foloweth it not that because the churche is to be tried by the scriptures onelie that therefore all other questions maie be decided by the same alone For God whose wisedome diuised whose holie spirite brethed whose finger wrote the scriptures as for heretikes that coÌ„temne the auctoritie of the churche he hath so disposed them as Tertullian writeth that they might ministre them Lib. de praescript aduers haeres matter so hathe he againe for them that shal be content humblie to rest in the lappe of the same made that matter by the scriptures so clere that a catholike man maie be bolde to prouoke an heretike yea all the heretikes in the worlde to dispute by scripture onelie of that question whiche and where is the true churche And suerlie so was it expedient that it shoulde be that the churche whiche shoulde iudge of the true sense and meaning of the scriptures shoulde by the scriptures be so euidentlie proued that about that their might be no wrangling As it is not to be merueiled therefore if anie catholike man giue councell to proue the church by the scriptures the scriptures speaking of the churche as hath S. Austen more plainelie then they â—narrat in psal 30 doe of Christe him selfe and therto being writteÌ„ so euideÌ„tly that the textes making for the trial therof nede no interpretatioÌ„ Lib. de vnitate ecdes ca. 16 so can you not reason that all other controuersies in semblable wise must be tried by the scripture because the scripture is more ambiguouse in other maters and because the church is proued so plainelie that it might afterwarde hauing the continuall assistence of Goddes holie spirite and being the piller of truthe assuer vs being in doubte of the true meaning of scripture And thus muche for answere to your long place alleaged to so little purpose out of that auncient auctor printed withe Chrisostome and of long time takeÌ„ for him By whose auctoritie lest the worekes of S. Clement making so muche against youre newe A sleight of M. nowells doctrine might get anie credite being here alleaged by this auncient auctor printed with Chrisostome and of long time taken for him you toke youre pen in to youre hande and cut that sentence clene awaie Hauing nowe spent youre store of testimonies brought fo 74. b. 9 by you to proue that the scripture alone ought to be the iudge of all controuersies you returne to youre olde plea so often auouched and neuer proued that we be the phariseis and therfore can not be the true churche of god that you alleage scriptures against vs as the Apostles did against the phariseis of whom and vs you saye furder as foloweth And I am suer that the high prieste withe his Iuishe churche Nowell b. 29. was able to saye as muche for the ordinarie succession of the highe priestes his predecessours euen from Aaron vntill his time for antiquitie for consent and for vniuersality against Christe and his Apostles so fewe in comparison and as it semed latelye start vp as yowe are able to saye for youre churche or againste vs. But yeat we doe thinke that the worde of God as it was alleaged by Christe and hys Apostles againste the saide high prieste and his churche so maye it and ought it allso to be alleaged by vs againste youre highe prieste and youre churche cet What so euer the Phariseis had to saye againste the Apostles Dorman for them selues they had not this to saye whiche we haue againste you that theire churche was by the testimonies of the Scriptures promised to continue for euer The Apostles proued to them the contrary oute of the scriptures if you can doe the lyke to vs and shewe by euident scriptures that the churche of Christe shoulde for the space of fiftene hundred or nine hundred yeares either be ouerthrowen and at the length restored by a newe Messias we renounce the benefite off succession we giue ouer antiquitie consent vniuersalitye and what so euer elles Thus alleaged the Apostles the worde of God against the Phariseis Thus must you alleage it against vs if you will alleage it at all And whether you be so or no the true church of god seing it Nowell fol. 75. a. 23. is in question and a greater doubte and controuersie emongest men I am suer then can be aboute the sense of anye place off the scripture yow shall neuer be hable to make anie exception to the scripture as no competent iudge in controuersies but we shall be able ten tymes more to make exception to youre Pope and his churche as no indifferent nor meete iudge We make no exception nor euer did againste the scripture Dorman as of it selfe an incompetent iudge to determine controuersies This we saye that the frowardenes of men addicted to mainteine their once receiued opinions maketh that the scripture is not alone sufficient to decide the same till the church haue giuen sentence betwene those that shall thus contende which is the true meaning of the scripture How the scripture decideth controuet
heade neither because he was present also with them and no lesse their heade then oures Thirdlye to shewe that the onelye conference of scriptures is not sufficient to ende all controuersies rising vpon the doubtefull meaninge off the lettre seing that if it so had allmightie God woulde of all likelihode haue bidden the Iues doe so and not trouble themselues and the high prieste for the matter Thus yowe see good readers howe I alleage thrise thys one place off scripture whiche argueth M. Nowell saieth miserable distresse But I truste suche as be off sounder iudgement haue learned to giue that reuerence to holie scripture that what so euer they see confirmed by one onelye sentence taken out of the same that they will thinke as sufficiently proued as iff there had bene many brought therfore If a man should aske of M. Nowell what distresse he was in when to proue that there must be manie kinges to gouerne the worlde he alleageth so often alone without anie other in his whole boke that sentence of Ecclesiasticus some times twise in one leafe as Cap. 17. fol. 32. and. 62. which neither proueth his entent and is taken besides out of that boke whiche he and his companioÌ„s In the articles agreed vpoÌ„ in the CoÌ„uocation anno 15â—2 haue noted to be insufficient to establishe anie doctrine by I marueile what answere he woulde make What shoulde I here mention the councell of Africa so many times brought in What shoulde I tell you of the same textes and gloses so often rehersed to one purpose Youre selues good readers in reading this boke of his shall beare me witnes that I lye not You haue here repeated againe that the high prieste must iudge according to the lawe whiche no man denieth for so saieth the texte that he shall that S. Paule a 29. b. 28. threatened Gods vengeaunce to the high prieste that S. Peter and S. Iohn asked boldely him and his whether it were right in the sight of god to heare them rather then God to all the which you haue my answere before in answering the. 59. b. and the. 68. leaues a. You haue beside serued in the seconde time the places of S. Austen and Chrisostome to fo 99. a. b proue that conference of the textes of scripture one withe the other is a good waye to atteine to the vnderstanding of doubtefull places Thus much was saide before in the. 72. leafe b. to the which in the same place I answered as I nowe doe that it is a verie good waie in dede but not suche as is able allwaies to assure vs of the right sense Nowe iudge I beseche you good readers who vseth oftenest to repeate the same thing M. Nowell or I. Where as you saye M. Nowell And no doubte but the Iuish Nowell b 26. priest appointed to resolue other men of their doubtes did him selfe vse the saide conference of scripture c. To that I answere that this maketh nothing for youre Dorman purpose if he so did For allthough the high prieste whose lippes were promised to keepe knowledge were for the office Malach. â— sake which he susteined so directed in the conference of scripture that he neuer failed in his iudgementes yeat hereof foloweth it not that euery priuate man by suche conference shoulde be hable to doe the like The generall councelles at this daie the popes at all times haue vsed you maie be sure this waye also of interpreting doubtes arising vpon the scripture We mislike it not therefore in them to whome it apperteineth to explicate suche doubtes but in suche onelie as being priuate men vse this for a cloke to couer their heresies in them we mislike it thus far as either they content not themselues with suche sense as the whole churche hath allreadie vpon the conference of suche doubtefull places agreed vpon either elles taking that office from publike auctoritie will presume them selues to giue suche sentence proceding this waye as maye best seme to make for their singuler opinions To this reason of mine that if laing and conferring together of one texte with an other were the surest and readiest waye to come to the true vnderstanding of all doubtes God woulde of all likelihode haue commaunded it and not haue sent his people to the high priest nowe at the length M. Nowell in the ende of two leaues and a halfe in the which he hathe done no other thing but first vttred himselfe how muche this place of Deutero grieueth him then vainely repeated that the prieste is bound to iudge according to Goddes lawe that when he did not S. Paule cursed him S. Peter and S. Iohn disobeied him that conference of the scripture is good and necessary now I saye after that he hathe filled vp two leaues and a halfe with this matter denied by no man and with the which he filled as manye before he maketh a proffer to answere in this wise But saieth M. Dorman God coÌ„maunded not any suche confereÌ„ce Nowell fo 100. a. 29. b. 1. of scriptures but only to resorte to the high prieste yeat I trust M. Dorman is not ignorant what it meaneth that God and oure Sauiour Christ doe so earnestly exhorte all meÌ„ to the diligeÌ„t reading and studie of the scriptures and doe condemne the ignorance or waÌ„t of knowledge therof And where he saieth God hath not coÌ„maunded suche conference of scriptures which yeat in effecte he hath commaunded it is happy that he can not shewe where God hath forbidden it which if he coulde he woulde not haue failed to haue done You tell men what I saide whiche they knewe before Dorman but your answere to my saing whiche here they loked to haue had you giue them not I saye that if conference of one place of the scripture withe an other had bene the surest waye to resolue all doubtes God woulde rather haue commaunded that then going to the prieste you answere that God and Christe exhorte vs to the diligent studie of scripture that * The coÌ„ference here meÌ„t is suche as must serue for the finall resolution of all doubtes suche conference he hathe commaunded in effect without shewing when where or by what wordes notwithstanding that herein consisteth the answere to my obiection that it is happy that I can not shewe where it is forbidden whereas euen in the very place that I bring here when I shewe that almighty God commaunded the ordinarie waye of resoluing doubtes to be the sentence of the highe prieste I shewe withall that he forbadde also conference of scripture in such wise as we here take conference that is to be the finall and laste resolution of determining doubtefull controuersies arising vppon the lettre Excepte any man you thincke maye be so desperate hardye as when God hathe appointed one waye to choose anye other as not forbidden That whiche foloweth But seing c. is one of youre extraordinarye walckes and perteineth not to my obiection but yeat
house he confesseth the minde of S. Hierome whiche he saieth was vtterly that all churches ought to be vndre the Romaine See or no strangers from it If Erasmus in his interpretation before saing that the churche was not as he thought builded vpon Rome but vpon the faith of Petre agree with S. Hierome in this pointe that all churches be subiect to the Romaine See howe happeneth it that you and youre fellowes to withdrawe all men from this subiection to that See make that principle that the churche was builded not vpon Rome but vpon Petres his faithe youre chiefe grounde seing that in Erasmus iudgement bothe might stande well inoughe together Iff on the contrarye parte this interpretation made by Erasmus can not agree with the minde of Saint Hierome Why shoulde we rather credite Erasmus not sure off his owne opinion then S. Hierome confidently affirming the contrarye Yea and furder the same Erasmus in the beginning of his argument Nowell fol. 108. b. 1. vpon his treatye against the Luciferians whiche is nexte to his two epistles to Damasus hathe these wordes Nulla haeresis grauius afflixit c. No heresie hathe more grieuously afflicted the churches of all the worlde then the Arrians in so muche that it hathe wrapped in the bishoppes of Rome and the emperours them selues It pleaseth M. Dorman sometime to alleage Erasmus against vs whose auctoritye if it be good downe goeth the pope and all popery For if the bishoppes of Rome haue bene infected with heresie then is not there that vniuersall rocke As good men as Erasmus and better to haue susteined Dorman the contrary that there was neuer bishoppe of Rome heretike But if there had it foloweth not thereof that there is not that vniuersall rocke Let that be the answere till I come to youre question What if the Pope be an heretike Nowe if M. Dorman did not see these notes of Erasmus vpon Nowell b. 16. the place by him alleaged out of S. Hierome I praise his diligence he maye of Dorman be called Dormitantius as S. Hierome whome he falsely alleageth called Vigilantius and more iustlye bothe by nature and sounde of name may M. Dorman be so called then euer was Vigilantius by S. Hierome c. I sawe them and vnderstode them it appeareth better Dorman then you Reade S. Hierome contra Vigilantium ad Exuperium and then see who is likely by S. Hieromes minde to be called Dormitantius you who with that drowsy sleeping heretike raile against the tapers and lightes in the churche the worshipping of sainctes the reuerent keping of their blessed relikes or I who with saint Hierome mainteine the contrary But I thinke euen for that cause a little thinge woulde make yow to call S. Hierome Dormitantius to for it appeareth that it pleased yow neuer a deale that he shoulde so roughly handle youre deare frinde and therefore yow prefer youre allusion to my name before that of his to the name of Vigilantius But I woulde counsell yow M. No-well either to gette yow some new trym name such as is Theodore Basile or some suche like or elles to leaue scoffing at other till this that yow haue conteining nothing well in it maie be mended Because yowe perceiued that Erasmus either made little for youre purpose or that his auctoritie woulde not be muche set by yow saie But if Erasmus iudgement be nothing worthe c. I will yeat in Christes quarell that he is the rocke and not Petres rotten Nowell B. 26. chaire bring furthe one witnes not onelie greater then Erasmus but also equall with S. Hierome and aboue all papistes in credite and auctoritie S. Austen in his 13. sermon vpon the ghospell off Mathew Yow fight with your owne shadowe M. Nowell when Dorman Fol. 109. ◠1. yow imagine to encountre with anie matche that shoulde offre Christe wrong No man denieth to Christe that excellencie to be the rocke of his churche yow maie therfore put vp youre dagger the fraie was donne before it begonne But yeat hereof it foloweth not that therefore Petres chaire that is to saie Peter is not also a fundation in Christe the first and greatest fundation as a little before I showed To the auctoritie of S. Austen I answere that euen as youre other witnesse that yowe brought before Erasmus durst in this case affirme nothing boldely but only shewed his minde doubtefully so is S. Austen in this question as it Lib. 1. Retractat cap. 21. appeareth in his worckes not fully resolued For in his first booke of Retractations where yow saie most impudently that he repeateth and mainteineth moste earnestlie this interpretation An impudent lye made vpō 12. S. Austen B. 18. that Christe and not Petre is the rocke he proposing bothe the interpretations that Peter is the rocke as he confessed that the same sense he had bothe him selfe giuen in writing against Donatus and was song in his time by the mouthe of manye in the verses of S. Ambrose where speaking of the cocke he saieth Hoc ipsa petra ecclesiae canente culpam diluit at the singing of this cocke the rocke of the churche him selfe purged his faulte he proposing I saie this sense and also that other that Christ is that rocke concludeth in this wise Harum autem duarum sententiarum quae sit probabilior eligat lector Of these two opinions let the reader chose that whiche he thinketh moste probable Is this M. Nowell to defende moste earnestly that Christe and not Petre is the rocke to sett men at libertie to beleue in this pointe as they list Is this the candor the sincere and vpright dealing that yowe speake so muche of But if yowe will yeat by no meanes graunte that S. Austen doubted of this pointe if he were resolued on anie parte I will proue by alleaging diuerse places against this one of youres that he thought as we doe and not with yow First in a sermon that he made of Petres chaire he hathe these wordes Petrū itaque fundamentū ecclesiae dominus nominauit August Serm. de cathedra S. Petri ideo digné fundamentū hoc ecclesia colit supra quod ecclesiastici aedificij altitudo cōsurgit That is to saie Our Lord therfore named Petre the fundation of the church and for that cause dothe the churche worthily worship this fundation vpon the whiche the heigth of the ecclesiasticall building riseth Againe in an other place speaking of the firste miracle Sermon de Sanct. 26. that S. Petre did in restoring to a lame man the vse of his feete he writeth thus Audistis frequenter ipsum Petrum a Act. 3. domino petram nuncupatum sicut ait Tu es Petrus super Matth. 16. hanc petram oedificabo ecclesiam meam Si ergo Petrus petra est supra quam aedificatur ecclesia recté prius pedes sanat vt sicut in ecclesia fidei fundamentum continet ita in homine membrorum
of Rome as Erasmus hathe noted yet he knowing or some man warning him that the house withoute the whiche the paschall lambe maye not be eaten the arke c. by all doctours is interprete to be the one vniuersall church of Christe and by none to be the churche of Rome therefore like a wise man or elles a false fox he let that folowing alone also as he cut of Christe the heade going and ioyned nexte before and so he hathe tolde you a tale bothe withoute heade and tayle thereby to proue the pope who is Antichrist to be the heade of Christes churche Is not this M. Nowell more then intollerable impudencie Dorman to charge me with fraude for the leauing out of that sentence then which there is none either in the workes of S. Hierome him selfe or anie of the other learned doctours that more maketh for the dignitye of the see of Rome for the omitting whereof in my boke I deserued rather to be noted at the catholikes handes of ouermuche simplicitye then at youres of fraude and sutteltye But howe truly here let the place itselfe iudge Omitting Erasmus whose iudgement nowe you condemne which yeat in me might haue bene counted some pointe of leuitie if I had euer praised him as you did before to be no vnskillfull or negligent viewer of the olde fathers writinges I will come to the place it selfe whiche I doubte not but by construing for I truste although you care not muche for the rules of the churche you owe yeat for olde acquaintaunce youre reuerence to the rules of Grammer to make bothe you and other men to vnderstād also how much this place maketh for me and howe little cause I had to suppresse it and howe muche yet lesse you had to make anye mention of it Saint Hieromes wordes therefore concerning this matter are these Ego nullum primum nisi Christum sequens beatit udini tuae id est cathedrae Petri communione consocior Super illam petram aedificatam ecclesiam scio Quicunque extra hanc domum agnum comederit prophanus est Nowe let vs construe M. Nowell Ego I sequens folowing nullum primum none first nisi Christum but Christ cōsocior am ioyned communione in communion beatitudini tuae to thy holynesse id est that is to saie cathedrae Petri to the chaire of Petre. Super illā petrā vpō that rocke what rocke M. Nowel but the same chaire of Peter to the whiche he professed him selfe to be ioyned in communion going nexte before these wordes scio I knowe ecclesiam the churche aedificatam to be builded Quicunque who so euer comederit shall eate agnum the lambe extra hanc domú out of this house prophanus est is prophane Now these wordes being truly by me thus construed euerye man learned and vnlearned maye see that S. Hierome by the house whiche he here mentioneth ment Christes vniuersall churche but builded Super illam petram vpon that rocke whiche rocke in the wordes nexte before he called Petres chaire to saie Petres auctoritie If you can construe them otherwise and make them to haue any other relation then this and proue it by the rulers of Gramer you maye vaunt that you haue showed vs a scholemasters tricke that neuer was harde of yeat But I am halfe in dispare that you shall euer be able seing that youre frinde Erasmus as good a Grammarian as you and as euill in a maner affected to the See of Rome as appeareth in diuerse places by his notes and censures coulde finde no suche shifte and therefore was faine as you muste at the length to confesse the truthe that S. Hierome was of the minde that all churches shoulde be subiecte to the churche of Rome or at the least no strangers from it Nowe whereas you saye that this house that S. Hierome mentioneth is of none interprete to be the churche of Rome what were that to oure purpose if it were so seing it is interprete of the vniuersall churche whiche is of all the auncient fathers acknowledged to be builded vpon Peters chaire as S. Hierome saieth here and as hathe bene declared before S. Cyprian who calleth the churche of Rome for that cause catholicae fidei Lib. 4. epist 8. radicem matricem the rocke and mother churche of the catholike churche Yeat lacke there not also fathers that in a sense that is as in the churche of Rome all other churches are conteined call it also by the name of the catholike churche As in effect S. Ambrose did when he called Damasus the pope ruler of the whole church which he coulde by no meanes be but as he was bishop of Rome Thus In commēt in cap. 3. 1. Tim. muche maie serue for my purgation that I haue not delt fraudulently in leauing out this parte of S. Hieromes sentence Nowe let vs procede Yow make much adoe about Vitalis and Meletius and saie that I saie vntrulie that S. Hierome saieth he knoweth not Nowell fo 111. a. 1. them because they were aduersaries to the seate of Rome the cause being because they were aduersaries to the true doctrine of the moste blessed Trinitie whiche Damasus did defende I reporte me to the learned whether I had cause to saie Dorman so or no not because of these wordes who so euer gathereth not with the scattreth alone which might perhappes be trulie spoken to anie other catholike bishop but because of the circumstances that go before ioyned to these as the consulting of Petres chaire the ioyning of him selfe thereto in communion To the whiche because they did not ioyne them selues as he did he refused them If yow had spoken no more vntrulie then I yowe woulde not to colour the matter the better haue imagined that emongest other causes why S. Hierome kepte not these schismatikes companie one was because they were foriners and not his owne bishoppes an other for that they were of a strange language Ah M. Nowell did yow nodde here that yowe coulde not see that S. Hierome affirmeth that the folowed the Aegiptian confessors the bishop of Romes felowe bishoppes Were not they as muche foriners to him as were Vitalis and Meletius was not their language as strange Yeat yow vpon this desire the reader to note that S. Hierome woulde B. 25. not knowe Vitalis and Meletius because they were foriners not his owne bishoppes c. And so make a comparison betwene youre refusall of the pope and S. Hieromes refusall of these schismatikes laing for a grounde without anye proufe that the pope is a foriner and hathe nothing to doe withe yow Of the place of S. Austen taken out of the 110. question of his questions vpon the olde and newe testament The 29. chapiter HERE M. Nowell vpon the censure of Erasmus of this worcke of S. Austens maketh this shorte but sharpe conclusion against me So that it were to muche impudency for Nowell fo 112. a. 30. Dorman anie man but only M.
currebant ego non mittebam Nowe seing the canon lawe helpeth Hier. cap. 23. you not yea seing it maketh directly against you as the whiche accounteth them headlesse that appointe heades to them selfe without the popes approbation seing at the lawes of the realme you finde as I heare saie as little grace seing that by the scriptures you are condemned for running not being sent what remaineth but to saye that the obeing of your Idoll bishoppes can not excuse you from being headlesse All this a doe hathe M. Dorman made nowe by the space of more Nowell fol. 114. a. 1. Clem. li. 3. Tit. 13. de censib exact cap. cum sit lib. 5. de verb. sig Tit. 10. ca. 1. Ex frequentib Dorman then three leaues to deface scripture as no fitte iudge in controuersies and to persuade vs that the pope like an other Pithagoras by his only bare worde maie and ought to satisfie all men heretikes and others and that it shal be sufficient for him only to saye without reason of scripture why he so saieth sauing this reason only papae est pro ratione voluntas with the pope will standeth for reason as is mentioned in the boke of his owne canon lawe c. Not to deface the scripture M. Nowel haue I made al this a doe there you belye me but to deface heretikes while by this meanes it shall not be laufull for thē to peruert and corrupte it with their false and vntrue expositions The places that you bring out of the canon lawe to proue that it is sufficient for the pope to saye without reason of scripture why he so saieth are two but in neither of those places is that which you saye The first place speaketh of certeine priuileges which the pope for causes and considerations will not haue extendid to monasteries and churches after a certeine time Here saieth the glose vpon this place that the popes will in this case standeth for reason Againe in the seconde place which is not there where you falsely note it here in the margent to be but in the title de sententia excommunicat cap. si summus pontifex of the pope absoluing one excommunicate it saieth as muche but no where in the popes lawe is this odiouse saing of youres founde Loke therfore better bothe vpon the texte and the glose and learne to vnderstande them before you bring them nexte An answere to 8. demaundes made by M. Nowell touching the pope The 30. Chapitre THE FIRST what if there be two or three popes at once Is it not to be doubted which of them shall be this certeine iudge in cōtrouersies Nowell And is not the popish churche in this case in daunger to be a liue monstre as hauing manie heades If there shoulde be so manie popes at once as truly popes Dorman as you professe to haue of your church manie heades at once then should the church be not only in daunger but in deede a liue monstre as youre schismaticall churche is But whereas in truthe there is but one laufull pope it is in no suche daunger as yow fantasy not if there were ten that pretended euery of them right to the papacy If any suche chaunce happen we knowe it chaunceth by Goddes permission who as he hath hetherto so guided his churche that when the like hathe happened it neuer susteined thereby anie detriment in faithe so are we by his promise assured who promised neuer to forsake his churche that he will in no wise permitte in this doubtefull time anye such cōtrouersie to be moued as that maye not withoute the detriment of his church remaine in suspense vntil suche time as God haue reuealed the right iudge and true pope What if there be neuer a pope at all Shall all oure doubtes lye Nowell b. 25. therewhile vndiscussed for lacke of a iudge and youre popishe church so longe two or three yeares together lye as a dead troncke for lacke of an heade If your doubtes be suche as the vsage of the churche the Dorman consent of all nations be not able to explicate then is there no other remedie but by praier to desire allmightye God to kepe from vs no longre this necessarie meane appointed by him in earthe to signifie to vs his holye will and pleasure The churche is not in the meane season a deade troncke no more then one of youre particuler churches is when the bishop dieth For euen as there although not in all thinges the Chapitre supplieth the lacke of the bishop in many so the See of Rome being voide by deathe hathe a graue Senate that supplieth althoughe not in defining of controuersies yeat in manie thinges that want of the heade I trust when the generall heade of the church of England in earthe dieth you will not call your church a deade troncke VVhat if the pope sitte not at Rome in Italie May we not doubt Nowell of the certeintie of the iudge not sitting in the chaire whereof he hath all his certeintie The pope hathe not his certeintie of Peters materiall Dorman chaire but of the auctoritie and power giuen to Petre the signe whereof the chaire is And therefore you nede not to trouble youre selfe with that care whether he sitte in the verye same chaire that Petre did or in some other whether he sit at Auinion in Fraunce or Toletum in Spaine he is allwaies bishoppe of Rome and successour to Petre. And as we saie where the kinge is there is the courte so where the pope sitteth there is Peters chaire to saye Petres auctoritye VVhat if he doe erre VVhat if he be an heretike Nowell The pope maye haue his priuate and personall errours Dorman it can not be denied God onely and not man is priuileaged that he can not so erre But in determining any matter of faithe or deliuering any doctrine to the whole churche he that is the chiefe heade of his churche will neuer suffer him so to erre And therefore I saye with S. Augustine that August epist 165. his misdoinges doe not preiudice the churche If it woulde please you M. Nowell to become scholer to those that you call my maisters as for anie greate learning that you haue showen in this Reproufe of youres it might beseeme you well enough Pighius and Hosius in them shoulde you learne Lib. 4. eccles hierarch cap. 8. Lib. 2. contra Brent folio 83. sequent that all youre companions be not hable to conuince so muche as one pope emongest so manie as haue bene to be an heretike But let that be as doubtefull as this is moste certeine that there was neuer yeat anye pope that gaue in any matter of faithe an hereticall sentence And therfore you are much to blame to conceiue of Goddes prouidence for his churche any such dispaire not being hable for all the time past to shewe so muche as one example of that whiche you captiously demaunde VVhat if
iniuriously without auctoritie of speciall commission As for youre promise that yow make in place conuenient fol. 11. b. to bring good proufe that the B. of Rome hath wickedly exacted most vnlaufull othes both of subiectes and of princes c. when you doe so yow shall heare what I will answere in the meane season I count it but an ordinary brag Of the place of S. Basile epist 70. that it was trulye applied to the heretikes of oure time cae The. 5. Chapter M. Nowell woulde induce the reader to thinke that this place of S. Basile shoulde be brought by me to persuade that he and his companions were Arrians And therfore purging him self and his mates of this crime he concludeth thus Wherfore his sainges in that Epistle apperteine nothing to Nowell fol. 12. b. 18 vs who are nothing guiltie of those crimes and heresies but they are brought in by dreaming M. Dorman without anie cause and beside all purpose What nede this affected ignorance M. Nowell Yow Dorman knowe well inough that I neuer charged you with the Arrian heresie But thus it pleaseth yow to handle me as though yow might by this meanes bringe me in to an euill conceite with the reader by persuading that I alleage no place to the purpose The Arrians yow wote well for it is a thing incident to heresies had beside their errours in doctrine manie foule deformities in maners Now what a newe kinde of reason is this I praie yow that yow vse I am not like Dauus or Syrus in one or two properties that they haue Ergo in no propertie at all Doe you agree with the Arrians in no pointe of their maners because yow beleue you saye well concerning the doctrine of the Trinitie If you beleue well God continue you therein at the least some of your pewe felowes pretēding once as good affection therto as you do nowe haue come so farre that they not only haue blasphemed it in open sermons but protested See Staphylus in Englishe fol. 113. a. also to be readier to returne to their Cloisters then to beleue thereoff as the catholike churche dothe But let that be their faulte I saye not here that you be yeat come so farre which notwithstanding youre conclusion that you infer wherefore his sainges in that epistle apperteigne b. 18. nothing to vs is false For you ouerthrowe churches you pull downe altars you contemne the traditions of the fathers the diligent obseruation whereof S. Basile saieth in this place was condemned by the Arrians as a greate faulte beside other thinges as maie to them that reade the histories more plainely appeare So that when you called me dreaming for bringing this as not to the purpose you were belike youre selfe nodding Yow aske why these bisshoppes of the Easte whose epistle Nowell b. 25. I alleaged here wrote not to the pope as head of all the church but indifferently to all the bishoppes of Fraunce and Italy without any mention of the B. of Rome at all whereoff yow gather a folishe fonde coniecture and of that that S. Basile placed the bishoppes off Fraunce before the Italian bisshoppes which I you saie craftely dissembled that the B. of Rome shoulde not be head of the churche Trulye M. Nowell I neuer brought it to proue the bisshop of Romes supremacie I brought it to proue that the face of oure time was not muche vnlike to that of the Arrians and to that it is not impertinent For youre demaunde I aske you againe what if he wrote to the pope speciall lettres for his aide in these difficultyes And if he did how that should not make greately for his supremacie to whome he woulde not write as to a common bishop emongest other but seuerally to him selfe alone as being the head of his other brethern Trulye there is an epistle of his not many before this written by him to Athanasius wherein conferring with him about the withstanding of the Arrians heresie he telleth him that his counsell is that they sende lettres to the B. of Rome that he may considre the matter and Epist 52. giue his sentence that bicause it woulde be verye harde to haue first a common councell called and then so to sende from thence he him selfe chosing mete men for the purpose suche as shoulde aswell be hable to beare out the paines of the iourney as for their gentlenes and sinceritie off manners to warne and reproue suche peruerse men as troubled them should giue auctoritie to the matter c. Why might not this epistle M. Nowell be touching the same matter whereof he wrote to the bishoppes of Fraunce and Italie why might it not be that knowing the honour of that see of Rome to be so greate as it is he woulde by no meanes wright vnto the bishop thereof alone but ioyntly together with bishop Athanasius whose fame he knewe to be in the churche suche that he could aske no reasonable petition whiche shoulde not be graunted or what can you saye why the epistle written to Meletius that they two shoulde sende to Rome for visitours to visite their countrie whiche was in the Easte might not be concerning Epist 57. this matter How euer it be these two places argue that the omitting of the B. of Rome his name here was not as you suppose for contempte of his auctoritie And thus is this fonde coniecture of youres showed to be vaine and of no force Now for dissembling as you saie the ordre of the bishoppes named in the epistle truly you shewe youre selfe to be made euen of the paringes of malice who iudge so maliciously where no cause is For to what purpose shoulde I conceale that which no man coulde suspect that anie woulde euer haue bene so foolishe as to haue brought for an argument against the popes supremacy It foloweth S. Basile with the other bishoppes of the Easte Nowell fol. 13. a. 3. called the bishoppes alltogether brethern and felowes in the ministerie which they would neuer haue done had they had this opinion of his supremacy that M. Dorman and other papistes do nowe defende and maintaine But in the saide 70. epistle the saide bishops of the East which do not once speake of the pope do pray the Frenche and Italian bisshoppes to make humble sute to the Emperoure that he by his auctoritie woulde represse their ennemies the Arrians and relieue their miseries which maketh rather for the Emperours supremacy in the churche then for the bishoppes of Rome I tolde you a litle before of S. Basile his counsell to Dorman Athanasius to sende to the bishop of Rome for helpe against Epist. 52. the Arrians Wherby as it appeareth to be more then probable that these latter lettres were written to the other bishoppes of Italie and fraunce only not to the pope so is it euident also that the mention of the emperour and silence of the pope came not of lacke of acknowledging his auctoritie to
the which before they fledde but of this by ioyning bothe the swordes together the spirituall and the temporall the rather to vanquishe and discomfite the enemie But nowe if it were so that emongest the rest the bishop of Rome had bene comprehended in this epistle yeat the calling of him brother or felowe in the ministerie is no cause to conclude as you doe against his auctoritie For neither doe I nowe nor euer hathe anie Catholike hetherto so defended or mainteined the popes supremacy that it hathe not bene allwaies acknowledged that bothe he and other bishoppes be the ministres of one common maister allthough that maister haue made him the ruler of his felowes and ouerseer of his brethren Yea the popes them selues haue euer vsed to call the other bishoppes their brethern and felowe bishoppes not renouncing therby the auctoritie of their seate What marueile is it therfore if the bisshoppes of the East had called the pope emongest the other to whome they wrote brother and felowe in the ministerie by the which name he calleth him selfe it can not be denied Nowe where M. Dorman speaketh of persecution as he dyd Nowell Fo. 13. a. 13 alittle before of oure moste cruell practise I referre it to the iudgement of all the worlde whether the papistes or we be more cruell persecutours and wheather haue suffred more persecution they or we If they be more cruell persecutours that lacking power Dorman shewe notwithstanding more crueltie in wordes then other doe in deedes if their crueltie be greater who punishe beside and against lawe then theirs who folowe lawe if it be no crueltie at all to punishe a fewe to saue the nombre by terrour of lighter paines to vse the wordes of S. Austen to â—ib de vinit eccl cap. 17. the Donatistes complaining of the Catholikes as you doe nowe to preserue from greater euills then is the matter iudged allreadie in all vpright iudgement then nedeth there no furder processe As for the lenitie by the which you woulde commende youre selues to the worlde youre charitable sermones made aswell before the Quenes moste excellent maiestie at the courte as before the nobles and other honorable of the Realme at the Crosse in the which yow haue consumed all youre eloquence to prouoke oure moste gratiouse soueraigne to imbrue her chaste and vnspotted handes with the innocent bloude of true Catholikes hathe long since made that wel knowen to the worlde So that I maye nowe truly saye to yow as did S. Austen to certeine heretikes in his time bragging of their lenitie towardes the catholikes as you doe of youres Nulla bestia si Epist. 48. neminem vulneret propterea mansueta dicitur quia dentes vngues non habet Seuire vos nolle dicitis ego non posse arbitror No beaste if he wounde no man is therfore called tame because he lacketh teethe and nailes you saye you will vse no crueltie I thinke yow can not Is not this youre verie case M. Nowell See you not a perfect pattern of youre pitie a copy of youre dissembled and countrefeite kindenesse O were youre murdering mouthes by oure most gratiouse Souereignes commaundement vnmoosseled which god for her sake forbid youre bloud thirsty handes at libertie how woulde these tame beastes bestirre them You saye that I go about to burthen you with enuie of churches either pulled downe or altered to other vses and of altars Nowell a. 12. destroied muche like as the rebelles did burthen king Henry the eight c. How the rebelles burdened king Henry or whether Dorman they burdened him at all or no as you saye they did I will not entremedle my selfe therein Of this I am suer that you be burdened of me none otherwise then S. Hierome burdened the Hunnes and wandalles being infected Epist ad HeliodoruÌ„ with Arrius heresie when he wrote of them after this sorte The churches be ouerthrowen at the altars be horses stabled and a litle after Howe manye monasteries be their taken And againe none otherwise then Optatus the bishop of Lib. 6. coÌ„â—â—â— Donatist Mileuite in Afrike burdened the Donatistes there doing the like when he tolde them that there coulde be no greater sacrilege then to breake shaue and remoue cleane away the altars off God on the whicht bothe they them selues some tymes had offred and the prayers off the people and membres off Christ were caried As for youre excuse that you make why Abbayes were ouerthrowen in oure countrye it is not trulie muche pertinent to oure purpose in this place For had it bene all true whereof the greatest parte was moste certeinely false that you sclaunderously and falsely laied to the charges of religiouse men emongest whome as there were manie offendours euen those that haue bene since in England greate pillers and in youre newe churche chiefe fauourers of youre newe religion so were there manie innocent and good who ceassed not daie and night to lament the disordred life of those other their brethren to praie most earnestly to almighty god for their sinnes and the sinnes of the people yeat was this no cause sufficient to turne vp the churches to ouerthrowe the altars Which you youre selfe also perceiuing and knowing that aswell in king Henries time those good fathers of the Chartrehouse as in the late reigne of Quene Marie bothe they in Shene the moÌ„ckes of westminstre the Franciscanes of Grenewich the preachers of S. Bartilmewes the nonnes of Sion and Dertford liued euery ordre so honestlie in all vertue and godlines according to their rule that manie wer edified by their good examples none offeÌ„did by their euil yow flee to an other shifte against the fundations off suche religiouse houses forsothe Which because you say were laied vpoÌ„ prayer for the redemption Nowell fol. 13. 2. 23. of the soules of their founders and their progenitours soules c. Were so vnsuer and weake or rather wicked that they coulde no longre beare suche huge superstructions and buildinges as were laied vpon them Well suche fundations maye be well counted weake Dorman or rather wicked by wicked Aerius who was condeÌ„ned for Aug. lib. de haeresib haer 53. lib. 3. haere 75. the like heresie as witnesse bothe S. Austen and Ephiphanius aboue 12. hundred yeares since But to all good Christian men they seme and euer haue done proufitable and meritoriouse as to him that will take the paines to reade the boke of late learnedly written of purgatorye it shall I doubt not euideÌ„tly appeare Beside that by this meanes our colleages at home in the vniuersities yea your cathedrall churche and Deanery it selfe M. Nowell might be in some daunger to be ouerthrowen if you fal to suche scanning of their first fundations Here you compell me to entre with you into a disputation about altars And for the iustifieng of your communion Fol. 14. b. Altars Nowell 1. Cor. 10. table you alleage first that oure sauiour instituted the sacrament at a