thought that he woulde in this case make lesse prouision for his churche then a temporall king will for the due administration of his lawes and the preseruing of vnitie emongest his subiectes Neither is it anie iniurie to the scripture or derogatiō to the maiestie thereof that the malice of men maketh it lesse sufficient to condemne heresies especially seing as Tertullian saieth the scriptures haue bene Lib. de praescript haeretic 1. Cor. 11. by the will off God so disposed as that they might ministre matter to heretikes seing it is writtē that there must be heresies which cā not be withowt the scriptures To this obiection of myne that the scriptures be so written that there was neuer heretike yeat that dyd not alleage scripture for the maintenaūce of the same and that thought not by the scriptures him selfe wel able to defende the same note I besech the good reader that M. Nowel maketh here no answere at al. Onely he maketh against this an other obiectiō that so the pope maye vnder b. 5. the name of the church mainteine and defende all errours and superstitions Whiche if it were true what woulde folowe other of this conclusion but that there shoulde be no iudge at all Is not this a propre kinde of answering trowe you But because the matter shall not remaine in that incerteintie I will M. Nowell answere youre reason although you woulde not answere mine I saye therefore that the pope as heade of Christes churche that is to saye defining or decreeing anye thinge concerning the affaires and busines thereof neuer erred yeat nor euer shall I proue it by auctoritye and by reason By the auctoritie of oure Sauiour him selfe who praing that Peters faithe might not faile coulde Lucae 22. not but obteine Whiche priuileage so obteined seing that Christe builded his churche not to continue for Peters lyfe tyme but for euer we maye not doubte but that it was giuen also to his successours S. Augustine as I noted before Epis 165. applied the wordes of Christ spoken of the Phariseis sitting in Moises chaire Quae dicunt facite quae autem faciunt Matth. 23. nolite facere Loke what they bid you doe doe it but do not as they do to the bishoppes of Rome succeding Peter and addeth that in so doing oure faithe shal be suer and certeine as the whiche being placed not in man but on God can neuer be scattred with anye tempest of schisme You haue the auctoritie of the Scripture you haue the iudgement of S. Augustine that Peters faithe shall continue in him and in his successours that to doe as they commaunde is to make oure faithe suer and defensible against the tempestes of all schismaticall stormes Now harken to reason Christe promised for euer to abide with his churche S. Paule calleth it the Matt. 28. 1. Timo. 3. piller of truthe If Christe be with it it can not erre if it be the piller of truth it admitteth no falsehode if it can admit no falsehode the pope whiche is the heade thereof and appointed by God to gouerne it in earthe can not in the gouernement thereof erre For if the heade might erre then might the whole body which is bound to folow the heade And thus bothe by auctoritie and reason by experience of these 1500. yeares it appeareth that there is greate difference betwene the two likelihodes that you put in the pope and in other priuate men touching the interpretatiō of the scripture And therefore vppon the ouerthrowe of this downe commeth all that you builde thereupon eitherin this place or elles where Hauing nowe taken youre pleasure sufficiently at vs comparing vs with Annas and Caiphas calling vs theeues aduersaries of the ghospell guiltie of manye heresies corruptions of religion and false superstitions you entre in to a common place of councelles whereof you saye as foloweth But the aduersaries off the Ghospell deale thus with vs Nowell b. 20. The Pope and all hys cleargye being guiltie off manye heresies c. and thereof accused doe assemble them selues together in a councell in the whiche nothing maye be moued muche lesse determined but suche as pleaseth the Pope him selfe there is enquirie made of vs who doe accuse them thereoff and offer to proue it and there vnhearde and vnseene we are condemned of our aduersaries c. Yow here note in the margent for the proufe hereof Dorman that nothing maie be moued in the councell but suche as pleaseth the pope Pighius in his 6. booke and first chapitre of his Hierarchie This place yowe alleaged before As I tolde you then so doe I nowe that you haue beelied Pighius Supra fol. 24. b. For he saieth not as you doe here that nothing maie be moued in the councell but suche as pleaseth the pope He saieth Haud feré fit almoste it is not otherwise not denieng as you saye he dothe that it can not be otherwise The wordes of Pighius note rather the greate diligence of the pope whiche is suche that when all the worlde shall meete together in a generall councell they can not for the moste parte name anye thinge to be refourmed or concluded that the Bishoppe of Rome with his learned councell about him hath not before forseene and handled then take awaye libertie from anye man to moue anie doubte to be resolued not considered before by the pope That the pope moueth ordinarily suche doubtes to the councell i st that offende you be angry with S. Peter his predecessour who practised the same first in the generall councell mentioned in the Actes of thapostles You accuse the pope and his and Act. 15. offer to proue it It is in deede the cōmon bragge of you al to saie you can proue vs Phariseis corrupters of religiō that the churche of Christe hathe vtterly failed and so furth The whiche if yow feare to proue in generall councelles yeat yow might me thinketh giue vs a taste of your prouffes in youre poisoned writinges To that that yowe complaine that yow are condemned vnhearde and vnsene we saie as yow gessed we woulde that yow might be hearde if yow listed against the whiche answere of oures yow replie How we are called and how we maie be heard let Iohn Husse Nowell fo 70. a. 2 called by the emperour Sigismunde his saulfe conduct vnder his greate emperiall seale to the councell of Constance with Hierom of Prague who bothe were contrary to the faithe giuen them by the greatest christian prince in the world condemned and burned to asshes be an eternall witnesse yea let their owne decree made in the saide councell which was that no faithe nor promise is to be kepte to anie heretike nor that anie man by anie promise standeth bounde to an heretike c. be a perpetuall testimonye off the same Beholde howe manie lyes in howe fewe lynes Iohn Dorman Husse being called to the councell of Constance brake the conditions of his saulfe conduct
call it maie be taken as it is for good and sufficient Youre seconde answere for the first it semeth that youre Euill maners of rulers no cause to with drawe obedience selfe mistrusted and therfore added this as it were to vndreprop it is of all other moste vaine and fonde For what scripture haue you what Doctours what councelles if it were graunted to yow that the bishoppes of Rome haue bene of late yeares wicked men to proue that because of their euill maners their subiectes maie forsake them Oure Sauiour saide of the Phariseis allthough Matth. â—3 naughty and wicked men to his disciples that no man shoulde withdrawe his obedience from them but euery man Doe what they taught to be done but not what they did them selues vpon the which wordes S. Austen saith Illa ergo De doctr Christ lâ—b 4. Cap. 27. cathedra non illorum sed Mosis cogebat eos bona dicere etiam non bona facientes Agebant ergo sua in vita sua docere autem sua cathedra illos non permittebat aliena That chaire therfore being not theirs but Moyses his compelled them doing euill to speake good thinges They did therfore in their owne life their owne deedes but to teache their owne an other mannes chaire woulde not suffer them If moyses his chaire had this priuileage as if yow wil beleue S. Austen it had that they that possessed it how vile so euer their lyues were were yeat assured allwaies to teache no euill doctrine what obiect you for defence of youre running oute of the church and forsaking the head therof the euil life and wicked maners of theÌ„ that of late yeares haue you saie sitten in Peters chaire for whome oure Lorde praied that his faithe Lucae 22. might neuer faile as though oure Lorde god had only remembred the Iues and forgotten his churche But considre I praie yow M. Nowel against what men yow speake Yow reason against the gouernement of the bishoppes of Rome whose succession hath continued these 1500 yeares and holde that because of the euill maners of the latter popes they are not to be obeid as who woulde saie so long as their life was vpright and maners honest they were to be obeied otherwise this exception shoulde be in vaine Noweturne that parte of the wallat that hangeth before yow and is euer in youre eyes behinde and placing the other before loke vpon youre owne bishoppes not yeat settled in full 15. yeares quiet possession See whether they that before cried out vpon ambition pride couetousnes lacke of hospitalitie and suche like haue not in these fewe yeares ouertaken the bishoppes of 900. yeares before them and gone beyonde them toe What were to be loked for then might yow quietly continue after one hundred yeares that haue profited in wickednesse so muche in these fewe Might not youre scholers thinke yow euen by youre owne lesson bothe nowe and then giue yow ouer in the plaine fielde But if there be no remedie but that yow will nedes conclude thus of the popes of this latter age by which I thinke yow vnderstande as yow are wont all since S. Gregories time and without anie greate streining of curtosy him toe that because of their euill maners they were no bishoppes at all then giue me I praie yow leaue good sir to saie as muche to yow being as yeat no bishop but taking vpon yow to reproue the chiefe of al bishoppes as did S. Cyprian to Pupianus iudging his rulers no lesse then yow doe nowe all the latter popes Quis est enim hic superbiae tumor c. VVhat swelling pride is this VVhat arrogancie Lib. 4. epist. 9. and puffing vp of minde for the to call to thy examination thy rulers and priestes and except we make oure purgation before the and be absolued by thy sentence for the space of six yeares neither had the brotherhode anie bishop neither the people any heade neither the flocke anie shepherd neither the churche any gouernour neither Christe any bishop nor God any prieste Is it not so with vs M. Nowell not for the space of six yeares but for the continual space of 900 if it were true that yow Absurditie saye Should not the church by this meanes haue beÌ„ without any heade at all vniuersall or particuler Seing that all other bishoppes thorough out the worlde haue bene made bishoppes by the popes who being them selues no bisshoppes coulde not haue the auctoritie to make other And then will it folowe also that the churche hauing no bishoppes coulde haue no priestes if no priestes no sacramentes rightely ministred beside infinite absurdities mo that will folowe if that of all other moste foolishe doctrine of youres were true that naughty maners shoulde make of bishoppes no bishoppes Thus youre double answere made to my simple collection being confuted it remaineth that either yow confesse the collection to be good or seke out newe matter to impugne it One sclaunderouse lye of youres there remaineth yeat to be confuted Which allthough to the learneder sorte be nedelesse yeat for their sakes who be of the simpler with whome youre chiefe labour taken in youre boke is to deface me I shall shortly answere therto in mine owne defence Nowell fo 5. b. 23. In the conclusion it is to be noted when Basile speaketh of all the bishoppes of the East as the shepherdes striken M. Dorman altering the nombre speaketh it of the Pope as the only shepherd Here appeareth M. Nowell youre singuler honestie who burne with suche a hatred towardes my persone that so that somewhat you maie saye to ease youre stomacke yow passe not all is one to yow by what right or wrong For I A sclaunderouse lye 6. neuer alleaged these wordes as the wordes of S. Basile but alluded only to the scriptures where the prophete hathe Zachar. 13. Percute pastorem dispergentur oues Strike the shepheard and the sheepe shall be scattred Yow haue therfore delt vncharitably so falsely to sclaundre me and giuen the worlde withall to vnderstande that youre maliciouse affections beare no lesse swaye in youre pen in writing then in youre tongue in preaching That the historie of Nouatus is truly applied and that I am cleere from those lyes which M. Nowell sclaunderously laieth to my charge The. 4. Chapter Yow say M. Nowell that I maie be ashamed to forge so manifest alye as that Nouatus exacted an othe against the Popes supremacie Nowell Fo. 7. q. 3 or that yow folowe Nouatus in exacting the like othe as he did and to proue this conclusion of youres you laie for a ground that Nouatus his othe is not onely vnlike but cleane contrary to youre othes that the controuersie betwixt Cornelius and Nouatus was not whether the B. of Rome were the supreme heade as it is nowe betwene yow and vs but whether Cornelius or he was by right the B. of Rome I neuer saide that Nouatus exacted an othe against
13. 1562. aut tonsorem aut circulatorem circumforaneum aut aliqueÌ„ huiusmodi ministerio adhibituÌ„ qui bonas liter as ne à limi ne quideÌ„ vnquaÌ„ salutarit At this daye in manie places a man shal finde either a shoemaker or a cowhearde or a barbar or a iuggler or a mountebancke ronneagate or some suche other made ministre who neuer strided so muche as ouer the tresshold into the schole where good learning is taught Where you saye that we haue burned so many of youre learned clerckes that you are driuen to supply small cures with fol. 17. a. some honest artificiers surelie loke ouer youre calendre againe and you shal finde that the greatest nombre of them was of suche craftesmen as we speake of and that the learned that passed that waies were verye fewe to haue furnished those cures that youre honest craftes men be as it is were into their shoppes crept into Howe the saing of S. Cyprian that heresies and schismes rise of the contempt of the bishop which is one is applied to the B. of Rome The 6. chapitre I saied that it had bene declared by S. Cyprian before Epistol 9. Lib. 4. that the diuell in his attemptes against the churche vsed alwaies to beginne with the banishement of the bishop whiche is one c. By this one bishop in this place you saie I make Saint Cyprian vnderstande the B. of Rome I doe so M. fo 17. b. 18 Nowel but not directly or immediatly You are deceiued much and vnderstaÌ„d not my meaning if you so thinke For as I confesse that bothe in the one place and in the other of S. Cyprian he maie vnderstande the bishoppes and gouernours of euery particuler churche so am I not also ignorant that youre conclusion Ergo there is not one worde ment off the bishop off Rome is moste false For when S. Cyprian saied in these places that schismes whiche arise by the diuels worcking where so euer they springe vp come by the banishing of their auctoritie who be appointed to gouerne the churche let it be I graunt so muche of euery bishop in his owne diocesse might not I who presupposed in this introduction of mine which in the processe also I proued that the B. of Rome was the chiefe heade of all other conclude that then by a greater reason S. Cyprians minde was that schismes and heresies shoulde come by the forsaking of the B. of Rome allthough by name he spake not of him As if for example it were written in the lawes of oure realme Treasons and rebellyoÌ„ ryse by the coÌ„temning of the lieuetenaunt which is one in the Shiere shoulde he now saye amisse that to exhorte men to abide in the obedience of their prince woulde reason from the auctoritie of the lawe that by contempt of the kinge rebellion the trouble-feast of all good ordre taketh beginning I thinke no man will so saye And yeat speaketh not the lawe by name off the king Allthough no man can denie but that if the lawe woulde so saie of an inferiour membre it woulde not let to saie as muche of the chiefe membre of all Yow will graunte youre selfe that although S. Cyprian named not the B. of Rome yeat in that sence as he is bishopp of the diocesse of Rome he ment of him Which seing you doe why maie not I who take him to haue aswell iurisdiction ouer the whole churche as ouer that of Rome applye to him by the waye of introduction this place as well as you doe to euery particuler bishop notwithstanding they be not by name mentioned which is youre reason here made to the contrary And thus muche for the applieng of this place to the B. of Rome And as for the quietnes peace securitie B. 25. plenty of thinges c. that yow saye you haue nowe more then of late vnder the pope if you meane of youre selfe and youre companions comparing youre present state with that of late of Geneua surely I thinke yow saye truthe Although I ment generallie and of the better parte of the realme For allthough you wallow in wealth and youre selues be so prouided for either to abide or to flye with youre banckes as it is supposed all readye made in the marchantes handes although the wooddes wasted the leade plucked from the greate palaces haules and kitchins to greate for youre little hospitalitie and small roste the beneuolences exacted of the pore priestes haue filled youre coffers finally although youre brattes be prouided of the best fermes and manours belonging to the churches to the whiche by the olde canons I speake of the children of Conâ—iâ— Tolâ—â—an 9. Can. 10. priestes for you I vnderstand are but a single solled ministre they ought to be bond sclaues yeat are other men pinched and complaine of the lacke of that quietnes that peace that securitie and plenty of thinges that 30. yeares ago they had For you abuse men to much to compare the time present with the late time of Quene Marye in the which neither was the popes auctoritie fully restored with all men neither would Dauus suffer vs to enioy this quietnes peace c that you speake of who by violent armes by seditiouse bokes by sclaunderouse tongues by infamouse and lieng libelles finally by all meanes sought to hindre the same and to stirre vp the subiect against the prince And yeat in good sooth the comparison being so made the oddes is not so cleare as yowe take it to be But how euer it be M. Nowell I spake here of no suche worldly respectes as yow woulde seme to make me I spake and ment of ouerthrowing of churches and altars of the contempt of learned men of the teaching of euil doctrine of the promoting to ecclesiasticall ministeries weuers tynckers coblers bromemen c. I ment of peace and quietnesse in conscience of simplicitie and vpright dealing betwene man and man with suche like thinges Which if youre selfe doe not perceiue since oure first reuolt from the pope to be muche empaired then are yow a piece of deade fleshe and desperatly braine sicke For so saieth Hippocrates of them who being sicke feale not the griefe of their disease Youre promise to proue that where the pope hath had the greatest auctoritie there he hath brought in with him all miseries mischiefes c. shall in the place where you perfourme it be answered Howe Maximus Vrbanus and Sidonius went from the churche by not acknowledging the auctoritie of the B. of Rome and how they returned to the same againe by acknowledging it The. 7. Chapter M. Nowell after that he hath declared that the state of the controuersie betwene Nouatus whome Maximus Vrbanus and Sidonius folowed and Cornelius the pope was which of them two was a catholike bishop holding the truthe and truly and laufully chosen by God and which was the intruder and not of the catholike churche but an heretike concludeth thus Wherefore it is euident that when M.
vrge these wordes as you bring me in at youre pleasure M. Nowell To the moste blessed Lorde c. to proue thereby the popes supremacy but I will here note to the reader in this comparison the familier kinde of writing to the one calling him brother and the reuerent maner of writing to the other where of reuerēce they absteined from that worde To Athanasius they called them selues bishoppes To Iulius they vsed their propre names without all titles And will yow knowe the cause why VVhy Vrsitius and Valēs called not Iulius the Pope brother Forsoth whē they wrote to Iulius they knewe them selues to stande at his mercye as men that were oute of the churche therefore neither durst they call him brother being a catholike bishop and chiefe of all other neither them selues bishoppes hauing made them selues vnworthy that name But as sone as they were pardoned of the pope in their lettres sent to Athanasius they vsed boldly the titles of brother and bishop Whereby maye easelie be gathered that it was no recantation that they sent to Athanasius In the recantation offred to Iulius they professe to desire to be in communion with Athanasius This request saye they to him we trust you will not denie praecipuè quum pietas tua pro insita sibi integritate gratiā nobis erroris facere est dignata Nicephor li. 9. ca. 27. especially seing that youre godlines according to that naturall vprightnes which is in you hath pardoned vs allready oure faulte They adde furder that if these of the Easte churche woulde wickedly yea if Athanasius him selfe Note woulde call them into the lawe touching these matters that without his consent they woulde not goe Finally they abiure Arrius the heretike with all his fautours In the letters to Athanasius there is no renouncing of the Arrians heresie there is no mention of pardon neither of anie thing elles but that he might vnderstande that they were nowe reconciled Whereas if they had conteined a recantation the matters shoulde no doubte in as ample maner haue bene specified as in that to Iulius they were The Tripartite historie saieth that these men offered to Iulius libellum poenitentiae their recantation in writing and that to Lib. 4. cap. 34. Athanasius miserunt literas seqùe ei deinceps communicare professi sunt they sent lettres and professed that they woulde communicate with him hereafter Of all other Epiphanius writeth of this matter moste plainely His wordes are these Vrsatius ac Valens vnà cum libellis profecti ad B. Iulium Ro. Lib. 2. haeresi 68. episcopum pro ratione reddenda de suo errore ac delicto qúod calumnias struxissent papae Athanasio At suscipe inquiunt nos ad communitatem ac ad poenitentiam Sed ad ipsum Athanasium ijsdem conscriptis confirmationibus vsi sunt propter poenitentiam that is to saie Vrsatius and Valens going together with their libelles to Iulius the B. of Rome to giue account of their errour and faulte for that that they had gone about to entrappe Athanasius But receiue vs saie they to the communion and to penaunce Yea and to Athanasius him selfe they vsed the same confirmations for penaunce Lo M. Nowell one of the places that I of set purpose B. 31. woulde not note least my fraude might be perceiued in alleaging that which made nothing to the matter Maketh it not to the matter that these two being bishoppes of the East churche shoulde vpon the forsaking of their heresies take on them so long a iorney offre them selues to suche daungers by sea and by lande to their no small costes and charges to make their submission in writing which they might haue sente and auoided all those difficulties by tarieng them selues as they did in writing to Athanasius at home if the B. of Rome had bene but equall to Athanasius and had had no more to doe in the matter then he Is it impertinent that they confesse of the pope that he hath pardoned them their faulte whereas of Athanasius there is no such worde Or is it lightly to be estemed that they promise to doe nothing in those matters of their faithe not at the calling of the bishoppes of the Easte or Athanasius him selfe without the popes consent Is it not to the purpose that they went to the pope to giue an accompt of their errour and fault committed against Athanasius that they desired of the pope to be receiued to penaunce and wrote to Athanasius for their penaunce Well by this I trust it appeareth that as I had no cause to cōceale these places as though as you saie I feared lest thereby it would fal out that the world should vnderstand my guile in alleaging that which made not to the purpose so that it is you who in saing that Vrsatius and Valēs offred vp their recantation aswell to Athanasius as to Iulius haue to furder youre heresie made an impudent lye and fathered Li. 9. ca. 27. that vpon Nicephorus which is not in him and thought to dor vs and out face vs to with a carde of tē Beside this I say as I saied before that if it had bene true that they had made their recantation to Athanasius also that yeat the consequent foloweth not that then the B. of Alexandria shoulde haue bene by this meanes aswell heade of the churche as Iulius For what letteth why the pope might not enioine them after their recantation made at Rome to make the same againe to the propre bishop of that place where their heresies were moste notoriouse Or how is this any diminishing of his auctoritie The force of this example consisteth VVherin the force of the example of Vrsitius and Valēs dothe consiste in this that being bishoppes so farre from Rome they should skippe Alexandria and come to Rome why they were reconciled at Rome first and then in Alexandria afterward So that what letteth now to conclude as I did By this meanes returned they to the church c. What letteth me to reply to youre I toke my harp into my hande and twang quoth A twang of M. Nowelles harpe my stringe a Youre stringe is broken betwene youre handes and where is now youre twang a O M. Nowell when you thought with suche a seely twang of youre harpe as this is to shift youre hādes of this graue and weighty testimonie you thought belike withal so to bring all the worlde a slepe with that sweete melodie or rather as Orpheus is reported by the poetes to haue by the musike of his harpe moued wooddes mountaines and rockes to appease the furye of wilde beastes so contrary wise by that sweete noise off youres to make wise men suche tame fooles by a strange metamorphosis so to turne them into blockes and stones as that they shoulde not be hable to perceiue youre vneuen dealing Surely in my pore conceite yow littell regarded youre calling yow muche empaired your name in answering thus lewdely Was this
leane vnto so notable a lie The first exception against this testimonie of Leo is this Nowell b. 13. No man maie be witnesse in his owne cause nor iudge Therefore Leo his testimonie brought furthe for the preeminence of his own See is not to be admitted c. This exception of youres yow proue by reason by scripture by lawe First to answere youre reason if reason theire maie be in Dorman anie so vncharitable a iudgement I saie it is false that the holiest and best men be lightly partiall in their owne matters He is neither holie nor good much lesse to be accounted amongest the holiest and best that for the bettring off his owne cause will swarue from the truthe Youre testimonie alleaged out of the ghospell is not to the purpose Ioan. 5. For that place proueth not that allwaies the testimonie that a man giueth of himselfe is false but that when a man hath to doe with aduersaries that will not otherwise beleue him as the Phariseis woulde not Christ then he must vse the testimonie of other theÌ„ him selfe Which as Leo in such case you maie be suer did so wheÌ„ the matter was so farre froÌ„ being by anie aduersarie gainesaide that he made his commission B. 25. to the bishop of Thessalonica to be in his steade thorough out Grecia and other countries adioning as he did here what nede had he there to bring anie proufes where there was at all no doubte If yow will saie that I defending the auctoritie of the pope bring Leo against yow which are the aduersaries and that therefore nowe becawse you are against Christes vicair as the Phariseis were against Christe him selfe for so doe yow confesse that you M. Nowell confesseth him selfe to reason against Leo as the phariseis dyd against Christ reason as they did although perhappes yow woulde haue bene angrie with an other that should haue saide so much so I must bring other witnesse then him except I will take the foile To that I answere that you come nowe to late with that exception if it had no other faulte For to answere you who dispute so depely oute of the lawe like one that is not alltogether ignorant therein conclusum est in causa M. Nowell sententia transijt in rem iudicataÌ„ I nede not to expounde these termes vnto you who haue the marow of the glose euen at youre fingres endes For other men who haue not atteined to such knowledge I saie that seing in Leo his time when he appointed in this epistle the bishop of Thessalonica in his steade thorough out Grecia and other countries adioining in an other place the B. of Orleance or some other thorough out Fraunce Hormisdas bishop of Hispalis to be his vicair in Spaine the churches that theÌ„ were and in to whose power the churches of this time succede excepted nothing against these doinges of his in his owne cause as you surmise but suffered theÌ„ to passe till our time the space of 1100. yeares and odde I answere I saye for replie to youre exception that had this testimonie bene being vrged by the rigour of the lawe insufficient that yeat forasmoche as the churche from that time hetherto accepted it for sufficient you come now to late to propose matter against it To make the matter by example more plaine if my auncestor a hundred yeares past in a contention betwene him and some other aboute a piece of landes woulde vpon trust of the vpright conscience of some neare kinsman of his aduersaries admit him to be a witnesse or iudge in the matter whome he might laufullie repell might I if sentence were giuen against my auncestor by the meanes of this iudge or witnesse come after the 100. yeares and excepte against the witnesse or iudge Leo speaketh not nowe M. Nowell he gaue this testimonie that the giueth 1100. yeares agoe The whole churche iustified his persone then to be bothe holie and blessed It is to late and to muche shame also for yow to starte vp now and saye the contrary Thus muche might be saied if it were true that Leo had bene witnesse or iudge in his own cause But the truthe is it is not his cause it is the cause of Christes church and of the whole ordre of priesthod For he pronouÌ„ceth for that seate vnde vnitas sacerdotalis exorta est froÌ„ whence priestly vnitie Cipr. li. 4. Epis 9. â—libi came Neither is Leo in this place more to be reiected for mainteining the supremacie of Peters seate wherein he theÌ„ sate then are the testimonies of S. CipriaÌ„ mainteining the iurisdiction of his owne bishoprike against stubborne rebelles Shall S. Hieromes auctoritie against deacons who woulde be equall with priestes be of no auctoritie because him selfe was a prieste This is not the meaning M. Nowell of the glose as greate a gloser as you be The glose meaneth that in priuate matters that concerne the pope as he is likewise How the glose brought by M. Nowell is to be vnderstande a priuate maÌ„ he shal not him selfe be iudge but in those thinges which concerne the whole bodie of the church and beloÌ„g to the ordre therof and haue no other iudge in earth it taketh not away the power of being witnesse or iudge Pighius you saye alleaged beside the decree of the pope the councell Nowell fol. 46. a. 1 of Vienna lest anie man might estemethe auctoritie the lesse as proceding from the pope in his owne case And by this yow saye it maye seeme that he thinketh the popes onelie testimonie in his owne cause not to be sufficient Pighius was neuer of that minde that you would haue him seme to be When he spake these wordes he touched Dorman the humour and noted the fashion of heretikes and therfore ex abundanti he cast in the mention of the councell of Vienna which I coulde doe also if that woulde helpe the matter and for Vienna giue yow Calcedon for 300. bringe yow 630. bishoppes that called Leo the kepar of Christes vineyard vniuersal bishop with other termes to that effect I forbare to alleage I confesse so muche in one place off a 28. my boke the notable testimonies of Clemens Anacletus Euaristus Alexander Xistus Telesphorus Pius Victor Fabianus and suche other onely because the gainesaiers might happelie haue excepted against them that because they were bishoppes of Rome they were not in that cause which was there owne indifferent witnesses How saye you M. Nowell what gather you hereof That you might laufullye take exception to them as not indifferent If you gather so you wrangle with me My wordes that went before in whiche to iustifie their persones and to shewe how vnlaufullie you shoulde doe it I called them martirs and in the whole course of their liues verie apostles doe witnesse with me the contrarie Yeat saide I that you might doe it de facto not de iure as you maie kill a man in dede but
not by lawe As fast as you saie I laied on loade of not onelie popishe witnesses but popes them selues for popes I thinke it will be harde for you to name but one beside Leo Innocentius and Gregorie the first whose sainges I alleaged And why I brought those rather then other I showed good cause I denie not yeat for all that but that euen this onely Leo I thinke is a heauier loade then yow woulde be gladde to beare That I yealded so muche at that time as to omit the testimonies of those notable popes I repent me therof By popishe witnesses you can meane no other but the fathers off Christes church and those to within the first six hundred yeares for other I alleaged none If as you would discredite A shift of M. Nowelles not hearde of before to discredite all the fathers that make for the popes auctoritie the popes because they be popes so you will discredite these auÌ„cient writers because they be popish and write for the pope then you haue founde a more neare waie I confesse then M. Iuell coulde Who alloweth all within the first 600. yeares As before for the fundatioÌ„ of this your first exceptioÌ„ you laied a false sclaunderouse lye to builde vpon so now to vnderprop the same vnder the colour off a more reasonable cause of exceptioÌ„ you bring in a feined story of Sozimus bisshop of Rome who you saie did falsefie the decrees of the Nicene councel whereupon you will conclude that neither Leo b. 3. nor anye other pope neither is to be beleued in this matter Not vnlike to the foolishe gentle woman that sware she woulde neuer loue oure Ladie more because she was a Iewe borne and the Iewes had put Christe to deathe I knowe I shall seme to manie men to digresse to far from my purpose in folowing youre rouing from the matter yeat something will I saye thereto because I knowe it to be one of the principall baites whiche suche fishers as you be M. Nowell vse to laye to bring men from the obedience of the Sea of Rome and hetherto in oure English tongue nothing hath bene answered thereto But because it is here impertinently entermedled with the answere to Leo I will first to auoide confusion ende that matter and then handle the other by it selfe Yow saye that Pighius affirmeth and I denye that the title Nowell fol. 48. a. 9 off oecumenicall or vniuersall Patriarke apperteineth to the bisshop of Rome of right and that therefore there must nedes be some erroure You report vntrulye of me M. Nowell Loke better vpon Dorman the place I reherse there the wordes of S. Gregorye who reprehended Iohn the B. of Constantinople for taking on him the name of vniuersall bishop Which title although it perteined to that Iohn in no sense and was as he affected it a prophane title and altogether mete for Antichrist yeat in that sense and meaning that it belonged to S. Gregorie in which sense onelye it is to be taken when it is applyed to the bishop of Rome I denied it not to perteine to the pope Thus doe Pighius and I agree Thus is there no errour thus goe you forwarde to encrease the numbre Lye 33. of youre lyes Yow merueile greatly that Leo woulde so ambitiously chalenge Nowell a. 14. in this epistle the same title in effect which he refused so freely offred vnto him by the whole councell c. LEO Gregorie after him Pius whiche is nowe nor Dorman anye pope that euer was before did striue about titles yow maye be suer The best title that they haue eche off them hathe bene and is to be called Seruus seruorum Dei the seruaunt of the Seruauntes of God But of this maye be merueiled more in what schole yow haue learned this manner with him that of humiltie refuseth suche titles as seme to gloriouse to deale so hardelye that because he refuseth the name he must nedes be depriued of the thinge The histories make mention that Vitellius the emperoure woulde neither be called Augustus nor Cesar Cesar refused the name of kinge Augustus and Antonius of Lordes Woulde youre wisedome haue serued yow nowe M. Nowell if you had liued in their time to denie them their Emperiall kingly and lordly auctoritie because they woulde not be called by suche names The councel is no councel where the heade is absent or â— â—0 coÌ„senteth not being present and therfore if here this coÌ„panie gathered togather in giuing this title to the pope had iudged amisse yet had not the councell erred I denie not as you saie I doe that the councell did well bothe the councell did well in offring a name mete to expresse the auctoritie which the pope had and so erred not and the bishop also well to refuse the same Except yow will saye that S. Paule when he refused the almoise and charitie off good 1. Cor. 9. men either did euell in refusing it or they euill in offring it The pope claimeth not this title no more then Leo dyd accepte it being offred Calle him by what sobre honeste name you list Graunte him the auctoritie due to him let all titles goe This is that whiche the pope claimeth and you ought not to denie This is that whiche Leo most modestly not as yow falselye terme it ambitiously chalenged to Peters seate Nowe let all reasonable men iudge hardely of the goodnesse of this exception whiche is a. 24. youre first The seconde exception that you vse against this testimonie of Leo for now yow saie yow will goe an other waye Nowell a. 28. to worke with me is that Leo saieth here vntruelye if these be Leo his wordes for that yow saye is yeat in controuersie But before you proue it yow will first aske me a question whether I haue trulye translated the place and iff I haue howe I can make these wordes in this epistle there is one dignitie common to all bishoppes to agree with these folowing there is difference of power emongest them and it is giuen to one to be aboue all the reste whose iudgement is of moste auctoritie b. 1. and howe this man is not in dignitie differing from the rest Yow doe like a wise man to goe an other awaye to worke Dorman for some men thinke you did but plaie before But I merueile why you shoulde put anie doubtes whether these be Leo his wordes or no seing that Caluin confesseth this epistle to be true and to be his To youre first question I answere that I haue translated this place trulye according to the copie printed at Colein anno 1561. To the next moued vpon this how then I can make these wordes agree one dignitie common to all and difference of power that they agree thus that allthough they haue all one dignitie of priestehode or bishoprike that yeat there is difference of power in iurisdiction If spirituall examples like yow not if you can not
or perhappes the solemne cuppe councell in Martin Luthers house at Wittemberg as I am to defend the couÌ„cel of Nice Ephesus or LateranuÌ„ Well M. Nowell neither shall you at this tyme bring furthe youre Confession of Augspurg or the solemne conclusion agreed vpon at Martin Luthers house nor I wil alleage Howe S. AusteÌ„ renounced the auctoritie of the Nicene councell either the councell of Nice Ephesus or Lateranum but the scriptures c. then I saie you coulde proue hereby that I who trusting vppon the goodnesse of the cause quit for the tyme the alleaging of the councelles were of the minde that the auctoritye of the councelles made nothing for the decision of controuersies And that this was the meaning of S. Augustine to relinquishe onelye for that present tyme the auctoritie of the councell off Nice that the heretike might forsake his schismaticall councell not that he estemed either the councell of Nice or anie other laufull generall councell so lightly as yow suppose bothe this aduerbe nunc nowe whose nature is to limite and restreine whiche yowe fearing lest it woulde marre all the marcket and perceiuing that it woulde be harde to deceiue the learnedersorte with this place alleaged trulie in A lie by omission 65. the latine but left owt in the englishe thinking that youre parte shoulde be well enough plaied if yowe were able to blinde the ignorant and vnlearned bothe dothe this I saie argue the meaning of S. Austen to be as I saie and not as yow pretende and also that he dothe euerie where against the Donatistes alleage Concilium plaenarium totius orbis the Lib. 1. de baptis contra Donat. cap. 18. Epist 118. ad Ianuar. fo 72. a. 3. S. Austen beelied â—â— Howe the scripture is iudge and howe it is not iudge of aâ— controuersies full councell of all the world and saieth of councelles quorum est in ecclesia saluberima auctoritas whose auctoritie is in the churche moste wholesome It is not to be forgotten in this place that where S. Austen calleth the scripture by the name of a witnes yowe conclude that he calleth the scripture iudge Which if he had done might easelie haue bene answered to be true also when the churche hathe declared what the scripture ment As the lawes of all countries are the iudges of suche controuersies as rise there but not the iudges alone because they be subiecte to wrangling interpretations and therefore requier an other iudge to iudge their meaning But seing S. Austen calleth not the scripture iudge but witnes yowe haue delt vntrulie by concluding more vpon his wordes then is in them To the places brought here by yowe owt of Chrisostome Fol. 72. â— â–ª I answere that we saie as muche in the commendation of holie scripture as he doeth For none of those places make holie scripture the onelie sufficient triall of all controuersies Therefore where as they saie we muste beleue scripture rather then men that if we woulde beleue them we shoulde fall in to no errours we graunte it to be true in scripture as it is deliuered by the fathers and expounded by the church For the first place of S. Hierom he there reiected an allegation of vncerteine auctoritie commonly called ApocriphuÌ„ about the person of that Zachary which was slaine betwene Matth. 23. the teÌ„ple and the altar which because he knewe was not receiued by vniuersall tradition there remained no other grounde of prouing it but by scripture where sith it was not he might well saie it is as easely contemned as proued M. Nowelles ignorance in the writâ—nges off the fathers The laste place non adferamus stateras dolosas c. is not S. Hieromes as yow trusting ouer much Gratianus to whom belike yow haue recourse for youre auctorities owt of the doctours to auoide either furder paine either elles because yow delight not muche in suche companie reporte it here Lib. 2. de baptis cap. 6. to be It is taken owt of S. Austin M. Nowell a token that manie a man speaketh to vse the olde Englishe prouerbe of Robin hood that neuer shot in his bow and maketh nothing against me who wishe you would in dede way thinges with lesse deceitefull waightes of scripture theÌ„ you doe The places here noted owt of S. Austen and Chrisostom B. 14. touching the conference of one place of scripture with an other of the darcke and obscure with the clere and light are brought to proue conference to be good and proffitable which we denie not But that which we denie and therfore yow shoulde haue proued neither those places nor anie other that yow haue alleaged doe proue First that allwaies suche conference can assure vs of the true meaning of the scripture secondarily that in this conferring of places there is no difficultie varietie or vncerteintie which we affirme and proue to be because to one man to the Lutheran it semeth that hoc est corpus meum this is my bodie and verbum caro factum est the word is made flesh are places of like phrase and speache to yow M. Nowell it semeth that Ego sum vitis vera I am a true vyne is like to this This is my bodie Why yow will saie I haue proued this by Chrisostome who saieth Ad ipsum diuinae scripturae scopum accedamus quae Chrisost in 2. cap. Gen. Homil 13. seipsam interpretatur and againe Sacra scriptura seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Let vs come to the marcke of the holie scripture whiche expoundeth it selfe The holie scripture expouÌ„deth it selfe and suffereth not the hearer to erre I knowe that these be Chrisostomes wordes I knowe that they make nothing for your purpose I knowe and be it knowen to all men that they are most shamefully by yowe abused and mangled For whereas Chrisostome confuting the errour of those that grounding them selues vpon this place of Genesis inspirauit in faciem eius Gen. 2. spiraculum vitae and he breathed vpon his face the breathe of life mainteined that the soule of man was off the same essence withe God where I saie Chrisostome specially in this pointe saieth that the scripture expoundeth it selfe you make him generally to saye that the scripture dothe so in all doubtes The whiche to persuade the better whereas the laste of those two sentences of Chrisostome by yowe alleaged hathe thus quamuis sacra scriptura quum nos tale Chrisostomes wordes mangled by M. Nowell quiddam docere vult seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Allthough the holye scripture when it wyll teache vs anye suche thinge expoundeth it selfe and suffereth not the hearer to erre yowe mangling the sentence cutt awaie the middle wordes quum nos tale quiddam docere vult when it will teache vs anie such thing lest by those wordes the reader might vnderstande that Chrisostome gaue there no general rule but spake onely of that special pointe
or some other like vnto it If this were not youre meaning M. Nowell why cut you of the worde quaÌ„uis at the beginning and these other in the middest Tell vs some other cause if you can Next after these auctorities you alleage a treatie of one fo 73. a. Borowed of the coÌ„fession of wittenberge Tit. de Eccles that you set furth Rhetorically calling him an auncient auctor printed withe Chrisostome and of long time taken for him to proue that the churche must be tried by the scriptures To this place I answere that whether it be Chrisostomes owne worcke from whence it is taken or no this is a thing moste certeine that it is to be warily readen as the boke which hath thrust into it if it be Chrisostomes owne or anie other catholike mannes by some false Arrian heretike manie poisoned and perniciouse sentences for the maintenaunce of the Arrians heresie Emongest other to note to you one or two euen in the. 48. homilie whiche is the verie nexte before this that you alleage here the Catholikes for mainteining the equalitie of Christe with God the father are nombred emongest heretikes and in the. 45. they are called heretikes that holde that the blessed trinitie is equall of like substance and auctoritie And therefore in suche places as this auctor who so euer it be dissenteth from the common faithe of Christes churche we haue iust cause to suspect that there this heretike who hath it appeareth ouerronne the whole hath dipped in his fingres and therefore that we reiect As in this place it is likely that he thought to make a waie for his heresies by chalenging to be tried by the scripture onelie the common request of the Arrian heretikes because the worde they saide Homousion was not to be founde in the scriptures But nowe if these wordes were Chrisostomes owne and not put in by the heretike yeat foloweth it not that because the churche is to be tried by the scriptures onelie that therefore all other questions maie be decided by the same alone For God whose wisedome diuised whose holie spirite brethed whose finger wrote the scriptures as for heretikes that coÌ„temne the auctoritie of the churche he hath so disposed them as Tertullian writeth that they might ministre them Lib. de praescript aduers haeres matter so hathe he againe for them that shal be content humblie to rest in the lappe of the same made that matter by the scriptures so clere that a catholike man maie be bolde to prouoke an heretike yea all the heretikes in the worlde to dispute by scripture onelie of that question whiche and where is the true churche And suerlie so was it expedient that it shoulde be that the churche whiche shoulde iudge of the true sense and meaning of the scriptures shoulde by the scriptures be so euidentlie proued that about that their might be no wrangling As it is not to be merueiled therefore if anie catholike man giue councell to proue the church by the scriptures the scriptures speaking of the churche as hath S. Austen more plainelie then they â—narrat in psal 30 doe of Christe him selfe and therto being writteÌ„ so euideÌ„tly that the textes making for the trial therof nede no interpretatioÌ„ Lib. de vnitate ecdes ca. 16 so can you not reason that all other controuersies in semblable wise must be tried by the scripture because the scripture is more ambiguouse in other maters and because the church is proued so plainelie that it might afterwarde hauing the continuall assistence of Goddes holie spirite and being the piller of truthe assuer vs being in doubte of the true meaning of scripture And thus muche for answere to your long place alleaged to so little purpose out of that auncient auctor printed withe Chrisostome and of long time takeÌ„ for him By whose auctoritie lest the worekes of S. Clement making so muche against youre newe A sleight of M. nowells doctrine might get anie credite being here alleaged by this auncient auctor printed with Chrisostome and of long time taken for him you toke youre pen in to youre hande and cut that sentence clene awaie Hauing nowe spent youre store of testimonies brought fo 74. b. 9 by you to proue that the scripture alone ought to be the iudge of all controuersies you returne to youre olde plea so often auouched and neuer proued that we be the phariseis and therfore can not be the true churche of god that you alleage scriptures against vs as the Apostles did against the phariseis of whom and vs you saye furder as foloweth And I am suer that the high prieste withe his Iuishe churche Nowell b. 29. was able to saye as muche for the ordinarie succession of the highe priestes his predecessours euen from Aaron vntill his time for antiquitie for consent and for vniuersality against Christe and his Apostles so fewe in comparison and as it semed latelye start vp as yowe are able to saye for youre churche or againste vs. But yeat we doe thinke that the worde of God as it was alleaged by Christe and hys Apostles againste the saide high prieste and his churche so maye it and ought it allso to be alleaged by vs againste youre highe prieste and youre churche cet What so euer the Phariseis had to saye againste the Apostles Dorman for them selues they had not this to saye whiche we haue againste you that theire churche was by the testimonies of the Scriptures promised to continue for euer The Apostles proued to them the contrary oute of the scriptures if you can doe the lyke to vs and shewe by euident scriptures that the churche of Christe shoulde for the space of fiftene hundred or nine hundred yeares either be ouerthrowen and at the length restored by a newe Messias we renounce the benefite off succession we giue ouer antiquitie consent vniuersalitye and what so euer elles Thus alleaged the Apostles the worde of God against the Phariseis Thus must you alleage it against vs if you will alleage it at all And whether you be so or no the true church of god seing it Nowell fol. 75. a. 23. is in question and a greater doubte and controuersie emongest men I am suer then can be aboute the sense of anye place off the scripture yow shall neuer be hable to make anie exception to the scripture as no competent iudge in controuersies but we shall be able ten tymes more to make exception to youre Pope and his churche as no indifferent nor meete iudge We make no exception nor euer did againste the scripture Dorman as of it selfe an incompetent iudge to determine controuersies This we saye that the frowardenes of men addicted to mainteine their once receiued opinions maketh that the scripture is not alone sufficient to decide the same till the church haue giuen sentence betwene those that shall thus contende which is the true meaning of the scripture How the scripture decideth controuet
Dorman vaine or euill thing neither because the Arrians and Anabaptistes vsed it neither for any other cause you haue therfore beelied me once more I acknowledge it to be bothe A lye 80. proffitable and necessarie only I saie that to ende all controuersies it is an insufficient meanes Because reiecting the determination of the churche you take vpon you as the Arrians did and the Anabaptistes doe to mainteine youre heresies by this pretensed conference of scripture not regarding that suche iudgement belongeth to the churche therefore I call yow and iustly terme you heretikes And as I doe reiect this conference that you talcke of because you vse it to that ende that these heretikes did so doe I refuse all suche scripture toe as is falsely wrested as was that whiche the diuell alleaged In whiche sense because Christe and his Apostles neuer alleaged anie I can not finde faulte with them I can not you saye deuise a waye that shoulde satisfye Nowell a. 20. all heretikes withoute all contradiction or exception on their parte I can deuise no waie in dede M. Nowell to satisfie al heretikes Dorman it passeth my power I cōfesse But God hathe deuised a waye to ouerthrowe all heresies if suche as you are woulde The way to ouerthrowe heresies be no let to his working And that is the thinge that ought to suffice vs. Will you knowe what waye it is Forsothe if this principle and grounde the which I labour to proue that Christes churche here in earthe being but one and visible hathe also one chiefe visible heade to rule and gouerne the same were thoroughly as it ought to be persuaded to all men then the heretike which nowe by coloured argumentes triumpheth ouer not onely the meaner sorte but also oftentimes many of the wiser and better learned the thinge called into question being either suche as is the question of baptising of infantes as whereof we haue no expresse scripture but onelye a tradition continued in the churche from the Apostles time and deliuered from hande to hande to vs either elles so perplexe and doubteful as the aduersarie will for his heresie bring not onely as many but mo textes also that shall seme to make for his purpose then shall the catholike as did the Arrian then shoulde I saye the heretike in al mens iudgemēt although neuer in his owne easely be discomfited and ouerthrowen For then let the Anabaptiste crie as muche as he woulde that the baptisme of infantes hathe no grounde of scripture the meanest man in a parishe woulde be able to tell him Sir the churche whiche I am bidden to giue eare to by the scripture vseth it and hathe done from the beginning this suffiseth me Againe let the Arrian bringe and heape together all the scripture that he hathe let him vse all his shiftes distinctions and gloses when he hathe all done the true catholike seketh after the interpretation of the churche that interpretation to witte that the membres agreing with the heade obserue and haue obserued vniuersally thoroughe out the whole worlde Thus if the more parte of men woulde doe as they ought neither woulde heretikes haue any list to publishe heresies their starting holes being by this wholesome remedie taken awaye neither shoulde they being brought furthe into the light be hable anie while to continue And this call I the ouerthrowing of heretikes and heresies For to persuade an indurat heretike by anye meanes I confesse it to be a thing impossible seing that not euerye man that is a true Christian can by conference of the scripture be by and by persuaded in all doubtes as you here vntruly saye he maye When partes be taken in opinions emongest learned men eache parte forcing the scriptures by conference and otherwise to make for that sense which he hathe conceiued is no man a true Christian but he that cā be satisfied in this case by the scripture Hath it not bene sene that the mainteiners of suche contrary opinions beinge for vertue and learning estemed of the worlde haue made also right good Christians to doubte And what case had Christe lefte vs in if in this perplexitie there were not a churche to directe vs if that churche had not a heade to speake to vs which being in S. Augustine and Prospers tyme Prosper lib. contra Collator cap. 10. Zozimus the Pope as you hearde before shewe vs nowe if you can why Pius the pope shoulde not be the lyke And thus you see M. Nowell I truste that you haue to muche abused bothe the Readers and me in labouring firste to persuade that I mislike the Scriptures whiche I doe in no sense or the conference thereof whiche I doe not simply but in this respecte that you contende that that waye alone is sufficient to ende all controuersies nexte in this that you altre my reason whiche is that because by this pretensed conference of youres heresies can neuer be ouerthrowen while by the subtilitye of heretikes alleaging scripture conferring scripture and that so probably that euen the best learned maye be shaken in their faithe and so heresie mainteined you make the same reason to be because there can no waye possibly be founde able to satisfie all frowarde heretikes Vppon this supposall of youres that I reiect this conference of scripture as no sufficient meane to ende all controuersies because it can not satisfie al men you aske this question And thinketh he that Popes of Rome men of suche lyfe suche Nowell b. 6. Holde the man a bowle for he will vomite partialitie suche ignorance such vntruthe such falsehode such bribery Simoniakes poisonners murtherers shal satisfie all men in all iudgementes of all causes and controuersies yea in their owne verye causes wherein they be parties and that without all exception The diuell they shall and that I may saye truly Non loqueris sed latras you speake not here M. Nowell Dorman but you barcke you reason not but you raile If all these faultes that you here heape together were in one pope at one time yeat shoulde they not be all any let why the same might not and shoulde not giue true iudgement and satisfie all good men To this I haue answered before where Cap. 3. fol. 8. b. 10 fol. 39. b. yow gaue me like occasion thither I remit the reader Yeat this I woulde faine knowe of yowe by the waie and desire yow when yow wright nexte to resolue me therein whether if these popes had the contraries to these vices that is so manie vertues yowe thinke they might giue true iudgement and satisfie all men If yow saie they could not what neded then this odiouse rehersall of so manie grieuouse faultes seing by no meanes they coulde If yowe saie that being good men they might then shewe scripture or bring reason to proue that this auctoritie is lost by euill manners In controuersies rising vpon the scripture the popes cause is not handled but gods and
currebant ego non mittebam Nowe seing the canon lawe helpeth Hier. cap. 23. you not yea seing it maketh directly against you as the whiche accounteth them headlesse that appointe heades to them selfe without the popes approbation seing at the lawes of the realme you finde as I heare saie as little grace seing that by the scriptures you are condemned for running not being sent what remaineth but to saye that the obeing of your Idoll bishoppes can not excuse you from being headlesse All this a doe hathe M. Dorman made nowe by the space of more Nowell fol. 114. a. 1. Clem. li. 3. Tit. 13. de censib exact cap. cum sit lib. 5. de verb. sig Tit. 10. ca. 1. Ex frequentib Dorman then three leaues to deface scripture as no fitte iudge in controuersies and to persuade vs that the pope like an other Pithagoras by his only bare worde maie and ought to satisfie all men heretikes and others and that it shal be sufficient for him only to saye without reason of scripture why he so saieth sauing this reason only papae est pro ratione voluntas with the pope will standeth for reason as is mentioned in the boke of his owne canon lawe c. Not to deface the scripture M. Nowel haue I made al this a doe there you belye me but to deface heretikes while by this meanes it shall not be laufull for thē to peruert and corrupte it with their false and vntrue expositions The places that you bring out of the canon lawe to proue that it is sufficient for the pope to saye without reason of scripture why he so saieth are two but in neither of those places is that which you saye The first place speaketh of certeine priuileges which the pope for causes and considerations will not haue extendid to monasteries and churches after a certeine time Here saieth the glose vpon this place that the popes will in this case standeth for reason Againe in the seconde place which is not there where you falsely note it here in the margent to be but in the title de sententia excommunicat cap. si summus pontifex of the pope absoluing one excommunicate it saieth as muche but no where in the popes lawe is this odiouse saing of youres founde Loke therfore better bothe vpon the texte and the glose and learne to vnderstande them before you bring them nexte An answere to 8. demaundes made by M. Nowell touching the pope The 30. Chapitre THE FIRST what if there be two or three popes at once Is it not to be doubted which of them shall be this certeine iudge in cōtrouersies Nowell And is not the popish churche in this case in daunger to be a liue monstre as hauing manie heades If there shoulde be so manie popes at once as truly popes Dorman as you professe to haue of your church manie heades at once then should the church be not only in daunger but in deede a liue monstre as youre schismaticall churche is But whereas in truthe there is but one laufull pope it is in no suche daunger as yow fantasy not if there were ten that pretended euery of them right to the papacy If any suche chaunce happen we knowe it chaunceth by Goddes permission who as he hath hetherto so guided his churche that when the like hathe happened it neuer susteined thereby anie detriment in faithe so are we by his promise assured who promised neuer to forsake his churche that he will in no wise permitte in this doubtefull time anye such cōtrouersie to be moued as that maye not withoute the detriment of his church remaine in suspense vntil suche time as God haue reuealed the right iudge and true pope What if there be neuer a pope at all Shall all oure doubtes lye Nowell b. 25. therewhile vndiscussed for lacke of a iudge and youre popishe church so longe two or three yeares together lye as a dead troncke for lacke of an heade If your doubtes be suche as the vsage of the churche the Dorman consent of all nations be not able to explicate then is there no other remedie but by praier to desire allmightye God to kepe from vs no longre this necessarie meane appointed by him in earthe to signifie to vs his holye will and pleasure The churche is not in the meane season a deade troncke no more then one of youre particuler churches is when the bishop dieth For euen as there although not in all thinges the Chapitre supplieth the lacke of the bishop in many so the See of Rome being voide by deathe hathe a graue Senate that supplieth althoughe not in defining of controuersies yeat in manie thinges that want of the heade I trust when the generall heade of the church of England in earthe dieth you will not call your church a deade troncke VVhat if the pope sitte not at Rome in Italie May we not doubt Nowell of the certeintie of the iudge not sitting in the chaire whereof he hath all his certeintie The pope hathe not his certeintie of Peters materiall Dorman chaire but of the auctoritie and power giuen to Petre the signe whereof the chaire is And therefore you nede not to trouble youre selfe with that care whether he sitte in the verye same chaire that Petre did or in some other whether he sit at Auinion in Fraunce or Toletum in Spaine he is allwaies bishoppe of Rome and successour to Petre. And as we saie where the kinge is there is the courte so where the pope sitteth there is Peters chaire to saye Petres auctoritye VVhat if he doe erre VVhat if he be an heretike Nowell The pope maye haue his priuate and personall errours Dorman it can not be denied God onely and not man is priuileaged that he can not so erre But in determining any matter of faithe or deliuering any doctrine to the whole churche he that is the chiefe heade of his churche will neuer suffer him so to erre And therefore I saye with S. Augustine that August epist 165. his misdoinges doe not preiudice the churche If it woulde please you M. Nowell to become scholer to those that you call my maisters as for anie greate learning that you haue showen in this Reproufe of youres it might beseeme you well enough Pighius and Hosius in them shoulde you learne Lib. 4. eccles hierarch cap. 8. Lib. 2. contra Brent folio 83. sequent that all youre companions be not hable to conuince so muche as one pope emongest so manie as haue bene to be an heretike But let that be as doubtefull as this is moste certeine that there was neuer yeat anye pope that gaue in any matter of faithe an hereticall sentence And therfore you are much to blame to conceiue of Goddes prouidence for his churche any such dispaire not being hable for all the time past to shewe so muche as one example of that whiche you captiously demaunde VVhat if
of heresies and schismes when men shoulde departe from the obedience of the pope the chiefe bishop of all other and therefore neither without cause or guilefully to deceiue the simple as yow vncharitably surmise Which youre selfe also perceiued verie well and therefore by the figure called extenuatio you terme this reason of mine a simple collection after this maner Now if he thinke yeat that he might make suche a simple collection Nowell fol. 5. a. 31. of S. Cyprian and S. Basile his wordes as this that as the beginning of heresies in their time was the contempte of the inferiours towardes their owne bishoppes for so Saint Cyprian teacheth so in likewise is the contempte of the Pope as the highest of all bishoppes the beginning of heresies nowe First I denie the argument for that it foloweth not though it be euill for the inferiour to disobey his owne bishop to whose obedience in all godlines he is bounden therefore it is euill for a straungier not to obey a straunge forraine vsurper to whome he oweth no dutie of obedience Againe I saie though it be the beginning of heresie to disobey Cyprian Rogatian yea or Cornelius being godly or catholike bishoppes yeat is it not likewise the beginning of heresies to disobeye any the late Popes of Rome who were not only no godly bishoppes as were Cyprian Rogatian and Cornelius but bothe moste wicked and in deede no bishoppes att all but false vsurpers of wordly tirannie Whome for the subiectes of an other Christian and laufull soueraigne to obeye and not to disobey is the beginning of heresies treasons and other mischiefes This is my simple collection you saie I acknowledge it Dâ—â—man for mine as simple as it is and to youre double answere thereto replye as foloweth First to the first that it is moste false that you laye for a grounded truthe that the bishop of Rome is a forraine vsurper as when I so gathered in my introduction I minded to proue in the handling of the first principall article of the popes auctoritie and so sence haue done Whereof seing youre selfe are not ignorant you haue delt not simply but doubly labouring to deceiue the simple by defacing as you thougth my preface as vnskilfully written for that I haue there only sayde and not proued that the pope is the chiefe heade of Christes churche in earthe whereas that I referred as by good ordre of writing the learned knowe I ought to the first article of the popes supremacie To the reasons and proufes in which place brought as in all youre answere you neuer come neare but cauill and wrangle against my Introduction whiche showeth the cause of schismes to be disobedience against pastours and bishops so if they be applied to this place as they must then shall it appeare how falsely you saye that the wordes of S. Cyprian were alleaged without all cause But because the whole force of this first answere of youres to proue my argument naught standeth in this that the bishop of Rome being a forriner no suche reason can be made from S. Cyprian and S. Basile his wordes I will here ouer and aboue that which I haue allreadie saide in the handling of this article in his propre place presently proue The pope taken for no foriner by S. Cyprian and S. Basile by S. Cyprian and S. Basile bothe that he was taken by them for no foriner neither in Africa Fraunce Spaine neither yeat in the Easte churche of the whiche S. Basile was For Africa first was the B. of Rome thinke yow taken Afrike there by S. Cyprian to be a forraine vsurpar whose churche he called ecclesiae catholicae radicem matricem the roote Lib. 4. epist 8. and mother churche of the catholike churche If the churche of Rome be the roote and mother to all other churches then if the mother be aboue the children if the mother and roote be no foriners to the children and branches of the tree it will folowe verie wel first that the churche of Rome as it is no foriner to the churches of Africa and to the other churches through out the worlde but aboue them all that so the bishop of the same is aboue the B. of Carthage and all other bishoppes and no foriner or vsurper And as carnall children how farre so euer they lyue from their naturall parentes cease not therfore to be their children nor their saide parentes become therby forriners euen so the bishop of Rome who gouerneth that churche that is mother to all other ceasseth not to be a father to his children dwell they neuer so farre of Was the B. of Rome reputed a straunger to the bishoppes of Africa Lib. 4. epist 8. who vsed to sende their legates to him to pacifie matters and to bring knowledge of the truthe Whose communion to holde S. Cyprian calleth in this epistle the firme holding and allowing of the vnitie and charitie of the catholike churche When all the African bishoppes assembled together in councel directed their lettres to the bishop Apud August epi â–ª 90. of Rome praying him to confirme their doings by the auctoritie of the Apostolicall See pro tuenda salute multorum quorundam peruersitate corrigenda for the preseruation of the healthe of manie and the amendement of the frowardenes of diuerse toke they him thinke yow for a forriner If S. Cyprian had had of the See of Rome that opinioÌ„ that you would gladlie persuade men he had woulde he thinke we haue saide of those schismatikes that sailed oute off Africa to Rome to complaine vpon him to Cornelius Post ista adhuc insuper c. Beside all this they haue bene so Lib. 1. Epist 3. bolde hauing appointed to them by the heretikes a false bishop to saile euen to Peters chaire and the principal churche from whence priestly vnitie sprang and to carie from schismatikes and prophane men lettres not considering that the Romaines are they whose faithe by the Apostles mouthe is praised and to whome false faithe can haue no accesse Woulde he haue saide Romam cum mendaciorum suorum merce nauigarunt quasi veritas post eos nauigare non posset quae mendaces linguas rei certae probatione conuinceret They are sailed to Rome with their marchandise of lies as though truthe coulde not saile after them able to conuince their lieng tongues by suer and vndoubted proufe Naye he shoulde and woulde you maie be suer had he bene of youre minde haue saide Let them go on goddes name what care I for the bishop of Rome Shall I be so foolishe to folowe them to debate the matter before him who is a plaine forriner to vs and hathe nothing to doe therein For thus woulde yow I dare saie at this daye answere if one shoulde go to Rome and complayne of you But nowe considering that saint Cyprian saied not thus but contrariewise made his account to stande with them and trie the matter before the bishop of
proue that Maximus and his fellowes called not Cornelius bishopp of the catholike churche in this place here brought by me Cyprian saye yow called not Cornelius bisshop Li. 3. ep 13 of the Catholike churche but bishop Cornelius ordeined in the catholike churche Ergo Maximus and his two companions called not Cornelius bishop of the Catholike churche Is not this a goodly kinde of reasoning Wil you see the like M. Nowell preached not at Poules crosse that there was no scripture no councelles no doctours no allowed examples of the primitiue churche to proue the supremacye of the B. of Rome ergo M. Iuell did not I thinke M. Iuell woulde giue you a good flice out of his benefice vpon the condition that you coulde proue this consequent to be good And that thus you reason can you not denie For the Lib. 3. epistol 11. wordes alleaged by me here out of S. Cyprian be not Saint Cyprian his but the verie wordes by his owne confession of the pore penitentes And therefore to bring a phrase out of S. Cyprian to proue that because he did not so saye therefore an other did not if this were all were a greate faulte in reasoning But now if the wordes had bene in bothe the places S. Cyprians owne then had youre reason bene like to this M. Nowell preaching before the Quenes highnes at the courte saide not that it woulde do him good to rase his buckler vpon a papistes face ergo he saied not so at Powles crosse You obiect againe against this place to be ment of one chiefe bishop ouer the whole churche that then as there is one Nowell fol. 20. b. 12. onely God and none but he so there shoulde be but one onely bishop and no more but he That were true M. Nowell if as God is the name off a Dorman moste simple nature and excellencie so the name of a bisshop were suche as woulde admitte no degree of dignitie When it is saide that there is one bishop in the catholike churche it is ment one chiefe bishop For it is not necessarie that in all pointes this similitude of one God and one bishop shoulde agree It ought to suffise you that the similitude standeth vpright in that wherein the comparison is made which is here of gouernement that as one God gouerneth heauen and earthe so there shoulde be one chiefe bishop to gouerne vnder him the churche in earthe Thus forasmuche as there be degrees in bishoppes though in God there be naturally none for by abuse of Idolatres and by participation of name there be also manie Goddes and manie lordes as witnesseth S. Paule it is sufficient that as 1. Cor. 8. there is one God so there ought to be one chiefe bishop not excluding the reste but referring them to their heade by meanes whereof and in which sense there is one bishoprike and one bishop And so consequently it foloweth that my marginall note of one God one bishoppe meaning as you saye I did was not in vaine The next obiection of youres why in this place these wordes one bishop in the catholike churche shoulde not be vnderstand of one especiall bishoppe ouer all you confirme by S. Cypriā in diuerse places First by that which he hath of one Nowell fol. 21. a. 6 Lib. 4. Epist. 9 Bishop in the firste booke the 3. epistle then by a sentence taken out of his epistle to Pupianus afterwardes by certaine wordes of his to Antonius and last of all by that which he hath in his boke de simplicitate praelator or de vnitate Ecclesiae not farre from the beginning To the first two places youre selfe seme not muche Dorman to trust although folowing the preceptes of youre arte you are content to vse them to make a shewe of store either because youre conscience telleth you that the reason foloweth not He saieth so in this place therefore he must nedes saye so in the other either elles because youre selfe perceiued that there is a greate difference betwene these places by reason of the worde catholike For in the place here alleaged the schismatikes returning to the churche confessed that there must be one bishop in the catholike churche in these two places auouched by you S. Cyprian saieth that heresies doo spring or arise by contempt of the bishop whiche gouerneth the churche and is one Now as the latter wordes maye according to the circumstances of the place and here are I doubte not taken for the seuerall heade of euery bishoprike so the firste can not well otherwise be taken then to exclude all particuler churches by reason of the worde catholike which signifieth vniuersall addid thereto especially the wordes being translated the catholike churche and not a catholike churche as by youre owne so turning of them and otherlike to them it appeareth they must Off the thirde place out of the epistle to Antonius you conclude nothing neither but turne the matter ouer to the laste auctoritie of S. Cypriā in his boke De simplicitate praelat where moste plainely you saye he declareth his minde of this one bishoprike wholly and equally possessed of all and ouerie bishop Well then at the length M. Nowell from post to piller you be come thither where you will cast ancre Wherewith I also for my parte am well contented and desire no better then to be in this controuersie tried by S. Cyprian Now showe how S. Cyprian maketh for you that is nothing for the B. of Rome his supremacie but directly against it For those be the wordes that yow conclude Nowell fo 21. b. 25. Lib. de Simplicitat praelator Dorman withall vpon this place That doe yow after this maner S. Cyprian saieth that there is one bishoprike which euery bishop hath wholy for his parte Ergo consequently all bishoppes be equall and no one can be aboue an other I denie the cōsequent M. Nowell Will yow knowe why This worde episcopatus comprehendeth here by S. Cyprian his minde the whole nature of that kinde of gouernement which bishoppes haue as if in like wise a man shoulde saie Vnum est sacerdotium there is one priestehode in the churche which euery prieste hath wholly for his parte woulde yow now thinke that vpon this proposition it were well done to conclude of priestes as yow doe of bishoppes that therefore because in nature off priestehode they be all equall the meanest as trulye and wholly participating the nature thereof as the chiefe there shoulde be no one priest in dignitie of gouernement aboue the other and so ouerthrowe the office of archipresbiteri chiefe priestes whereof the councell Can. 15. itē Concil Carthag 4. can 17. of Toures in Fraunce aboute the time off Pelagius the first aboue a thousand yeares past maketh mention But what speke I of priesthode will yow condemne the whole churche of Christe for making of Archebishoppes I thinke yow wil not And what signifieth this worde Archebishoppe but a chiefe bishop If there
maye be one chiefe bishop in euerye prouince aboue the rest of his felow bishoppes and yeat no hindrance to the rest or diminishing of their power that they shoulde not be bishoppes aswell as he why maye not the same proportion be kept betwene the pope and the rest of the bishoppes of Christendome that is betwene the archebishop and the other bishoppes of the prouince But these be but wordes yow saye Call them what you will they lacke not reason and therefore answere them as yow can for answere them you must without you will giue ouer in the plaine fielde But I will ioyne to reason auctoritie not of any meane writer but euen of S. Austen him selfe who it is likely vnderstode as well the meaning of S. Cyprian as yow M. Nowell I trust yow will not be angry with me for saing so For as good I saye it as other thinke it The wordes of S. Austen writing to pope Boniface about the resisting of the Pelagians heresie are these Cum verò non desinant fremere ad dominici gregis caulas atque ad diripiendas tanto praetio redemptas Lib. 1. cōtra duas epist. Pelag Cap. 1. oues aditus vndecunque rimari communisque sit omnibus nobis qui fungimur Episcopatus officio quamuis ipse in eo praemineas celsiore fastigio speculae pastoralis facio quod possum pro mei particula muneris c Nowe whereas the heretikes ceasse not to gnash and whett their teethe at the foldes of our lordes flocke and by all meanes possible to searche out where they maye finde any entraunce to spoyle those shepe that haue bene so dearely raunsomed and the bishoprike the office whereof we susteine is common to vs all although your selfe haue the preeminence therein by reason of the higher toppe of the pastorall watche tower I doe what I can for that pece of charge which is commited to me as much as oure lorde by the helpe of youre prayers vouchesauffeth to giue me to withstand their pestilent and deceitfull writinges by other that shall be bothe wholesom and defensiue whereby either the rage wherewith they are starcke madde maye be vtterly cured or at the One bishoprike common to all excludeth not one B. to be aboue all the rest least kept frome hurting of others These be the wordes of S. Austen who confesseth with S. Cyprian that the office of a bishoppe is cōmon to al bishoppes with the pope and yeat condemneth notwithstanding most plainely youre consequent falsely brought in there vpon Therefore all bishoppes be aequall and none aboue an other For you haue hearde that the pope Boniface to whome he wrote was aboue all the rest in expresse wordes Thus is this conclusion of youres Euery bishopp hath in solidum that is to saye fo 22. a. b. fully and wholy that one bishopricke or bishoply function and office ergo no one can haue more than the whole and therefore no one can be aboue all other by grauntinge the consequent to be true touching the nature and substaunce of a bishopes auctoritie and office but denieng it to folow in preeminence and dignitie shewed to be a false conclusion But yeat yow goe forwarde and saie that this one bishoprike Nowell a. 25. is diuided aequally emongest all bishoppes as faithe and baptisme are aequally and wholy deuided emongest the faithful baptised and that therefore as no one man hath any superioritie In solidum in baptisme or faith aboue other truely faithfull and baptised so hath no one bishop superioritie ouer other bishoppes c. S. Cyprian maketh not his comparison here betwene Dorman faithe baptisme and the whole bishoprike of the churche otherwise then in this respect that eche of them is one and the point that he compareth them in is this that as baptisme is one as the faith of all faithful christiās is one and yeat al faithful and baptised haue not aequall auctoritie in gouernement so the bishoprike is one that as no man hath superioritie in baptisme or faithe to be more a faithfull man or more baptised thē an other so no bishop hath of the one bishoprike common to all touching the true nature and substance of bishoply ordre more superioritie of being a bishop then an other but all bishoppes a lyke the one as truely a bishop as the other touching ordre although as you heard before out of S. Austen the pope altius praeeminet hathe the higher preeminence that is to say is in higher auctorite of iurisdictiō then other bishoppes are Thus muche touching youre surmised comparison which if it shoulde haue bene made as you imagine then must yow either condemne S. Cyprian him selfe for bearing the name of an Archebishop or feine that there is also an archebaptisme to set against the dignitie of archebishoprike off the which two as no good man will doe the firste so no wiseman will thinke the last But howe so euer yowe take the matter M. Nowell there is no comparison made in this place till yowe come to the sentence Episcopatus vnus est there is one bishoprike For the better knowledge whereof it is to be vnderstande that the thing which in this place S. Cyprian laboureth to persuade is bothe in the bishoprike and in the churche vnitie To proue this he vseth a cōparison in this wise Episcopatus vnus est c. Ecclesia vna est quomodo solis multi radij sed lumen vnum c. The bishoprike is one etc. The church is one euen as many sonne beames make one light etc. But now let vs examine some one of these seuerall comparisons and you shall see how litle this worde in solidum wholly maketh for your pretensed aequalitie emongest all bishoppes and whether S. Cyprian ment as you do or no. Imagine you therfore with S. Cypr. this whole bishoprike The bisshoprike of the churche compared to a tree of the church to be a tree the brāches wherof be the bishop pes seuered the bodie of the tree the same bishoppes ioyned together the roote the chiefe bishoppe that holdeth thē together Except this be the meaning of S. Cyprian you can not make this comparison agree For the waye to make the things cōpared agree is because of thē selues both the bowes of the tree and bishoppes of the church are many to reduce thē to one beginning And as the same thing that maketh the tree one is a membre and parte thereof so must that which shall make the bishoprike one be a mēbre of the same bishoprike that is to saye a bishop although in that respect that he is a parte of the same bodie equall with the rest as the roote by being of one cōmon substāce with the bodie and brāches is aboue the other partes of the tree notwithstāding because they are all made one thereby and take theire life thereof as appeareth at the eye For cut away the roote and the bodie perisheth Take awaye the roote of this
processe plaing the ape in mocking mowing and tossing of suche graue auctorities as maie serue for the confirmation thereof yow haue not impugned my proposition but scoffingly confirmed it Which maner of answering how it is to be liked I praye the discrete reader to iudge Of the necessitie of one heade in Christes churche The 11. chapitre When I minded to handle in writing the preeminence and superioritie of the B. of Rome ouer Christes vniuersall and catholike churche and considered first that the scripture it selfe then the fathers and councelles finally the examples of the primitiue churche alowed the same I laied for a fundation to builde vpon that there must nedes be one heade in Christes churche to gouerne it Not as though if to the wisdome of him who dothe in his wisdome all thinges it had so semed the gouernement of Aristocratie that is to saie off the best and wisest men might not haue bene preferred by him which is Lorde ouer nature before the rule of Monarchie that is of one alone whiche is moste agreable to nature And for this cause I saied that of necessitie it must so be Which necessitie if I had not bene able to proue as the contrarie shall hereafter appeare by that that you keping youre selfe to the title of youre boke haue onely reproued and not disproued anie one reason off myne yeat must all men off necessitie nedes confesse that seing Christ committed in the scriptures the whole charge of his church to only Peter giuing him auctoritie to feede al Lābes and shepe seing that the fathers with Ioan. 21. such cōformitie confesse the same of Peter and his successors as namely to omit other because I haue hādled this matter elles where and this is not the place propre therefore Chrisostome who saieth that Christ committed the whole charge of all to Peter and his successours nedes I saye must Homil. in Maeth 55 li. 2. de Sacerdot all mē acknowledge the necessitie of that one heade which by suche good proufes they see confirmed although I nor any man elles were able to proue the same by reason To make the matter more clere by example the churche of Christe holdeth that oure blessed ladye was a perpetuall virgin aswell after the byrth of Christe as before Eluidius the heretike holdeth the contrarie If I now to ouerthrowe Eluidius shoulde first place this proposition for my fundation to builde vpon against him That of necessitie that womā what so euer she were of whom the Sauiour of the worlde should take fleshe ought aswel to be preserued pure that that place might not be defiled through which Christ him selfe had passed after her bringing furthe as before it was preserued from being contaminat because he should passe through if this proposition were not proued or coulde not by reason or scriptures be proued woulde yow then that Eluidius shoulde go from the receiued faith of the churche and saye there neded no further battery or vndermining to be made to ouerthrow that which is manifestly proued in the persone off oure lady by the faithe of the churche as the matter is here in the personne of the pope What if disputing against a Iewe or infidell that woulde denie that Christ suffred death for the synnes of the world I should laye for the fundation this saing of the gospell Oportebat Christum pati c. Luca. 24. If Iwer not able to proue this necessitie because goddes omnipotent power might by other meanes haue wrought our saluation doth it by and by folowe that the infidell hath proued his purpose that Christ did not suffer death for vs I wright not this as though I mistrusted the prouing off this proposition of mine that there must be one heade c. but to encountre with you who beinge comen but thus farre beganne to repent yow of the long iourney that yow had to make and therefore to abridge the same thought here to make and therefore to abridge the same thought here to make the reader beleue that it shoulde be nedelesse to goe so farre as to Rome to the Popes owne sight that so youre shunning of the matter might seme to come of politike forsight not of dastardly cowardnesse I saide that the state of goddes people in the olde lawe and experience of ciuile gouernement did proue the Nowell Fol. 29. 2. 23. necessitie of one heade Yow answere that as goddes people in the olde law were one seueral people and had one high priest so that no further can be gathered thereof but that likewise in euery diocesse or countrie it were good to haue one chiefe bishop to rule in the cleargie Oh M. Nowell think you thus to ouerbeare youre pore Dorman neighbours You must remembre yow must remembre that you fight against truthe that will not so be outfaced You must remembre that when we talke of the Iewes as of the people of God we doe not in that point recon them as one seuerall people They were in dede seuerall in respect of other natiōs which had forsakē God but neuer in such sorte seueral as though the whole church of god were not vnder the gouernemnet of their lawe and chiefe priest They were therefore a figure not onelie of one diocesse or one countrie but of the whole churche that now is and made the churche that then was And so the example holdeth still You make my reason taken frō the exāples of kingdomes fol. 30. a. 21. societies families etc. and applied by force of greater reasō to the church to come from S. Cyprian to Pighius to D. Harding and so to me The mo that haue it the gladder I am But I pray you what is this to the purpose whose it be except yow doe this to shewe youre selfe to be a man of greate reading and ignorant neither in the olde writers nor in those of latter time What so euer yow make of me or how so euer it please you to take me I am not iwisse so verye a dolt but I could haue made this reason euen by the experience of those thinges which ronne dailie into myne eyes and neuer haue loked either in S. Cyprian or Pighius or borowed it off D. Harding and had not youre memorie failed you you could haue saide youre selfe that I tolde yow that experience was the thing that moued me to saye it Whose argument or reason so euer it be blinde yow saie it is That let indifferent eyes trye M. Nowell I reason thus Euery kingdome hath his seuerall king euery people citie towne village house and so furthe haue their seuer all head or gouernour ergo the whole churche which is but one diuided into many membres as saieth S. Cyprian must haue one heade as wel as hath one kingdome one people one citie c. Now what faulte finde you Li. 4 ep 2. with this reason I praie you that see so clerely and haue euē youre eies as a man woulde saie in youre handes
only in Afrike by common Cypr. lib. 1. epist. 4. consent of the Africans was not in Spaine as appeareth by the appealing from thence of Basilides to Rome Which if it had bene vnlaufull neuer woulde S. Cyprian we may be suer haue made other exception why the sentence giuen by Stephanus the pope for his restitution shoulde not be good then this because it was giuen by him that was no iudge at all of all other the best and moste peremptory neuer would he haue obiected that it was obteined by false suggestion and wrong information which argueth the goodnes and validitie of the appellation of it selfe But what speake I of Spaine when S. Cyprian his owne labouring Li. 1. ep 3. at Rome with the pope by lettres by legates by all meanes possible that this vniust appeale might not be receaued when his counting to saile after them to conuince their lieng tongues by vndoubted and assured proufe of the truthe ought sufficiently to make faithe that seing the pope had neuer confirmed this locall statute of theirs and therby not renounced his right seing his subiectes against the ordre taken had appealed to Rome he must also nedes answere the appeale for the vnlaufulnes wherof on their partes that folowed it he alleageth here their own consent in these words omnibus nobis agreed by al vs to moue therby the rather the B. of Rome not to receiue their appeale but to remit the cause home againe Whereas you saie that S. Cyprian hathe that none but naughty and desperate men doe thinke the auctoritie of some bisshoppes to be inferiour to the auctoritie of other surely yow go about bothe to proue youre selfe S. Cyprian S. Austen and all the learned fathers of Christes church naughty and desperate men You condemne in like maner the auncient generall councelles and continuall practise of the catholike churche For who is so ignorant that he knoweth not that the bookes of the learned fathers the canōs of the auncient councells the vsage of Christes churche haue so religiously alwaies obserued this difference of bishoppes that the verie names of patriarkes primates Archebishoppes reteined allwaies and vsed in the churches are able to conuince him to be an impudent lier that shall susteine the contrary Youre selfe confesse that there be chiefe prelates in euery prouince If chiefe Ergo inferious You call him a naughty and desperate man that thinketh the auctoritie of some bishoppes to be inferiour to the auctoritie of other Yow saye the same youre selfe by graunting that there be chiefe prelates Hauing sought all the meanes that my pore witte can inuent to exempt yow from this companie of naughty and desperate men I finde no other then this that perhappes you only saye it for a shift and thinke it not in deede But if you were to be accounted naught and desperate for this yeat had you in this respecte cause to reioyce that yow were like to haue the companie of S. Austen who telleth Bonifacius the pope that in the Lib. 2. de baptism contra Donat. cap. 1. gouernement of the church he was not onely aboue him but aboue all other bishopps although the office be common to all in sitting in the highest top of the pastor all watche tower who saieth comparing together S. Petre and S. Cyprian Sed si distet cathedrarum gratia vna est tamen martyrum gloria But although betwene the grace of their seates there be difference yeat the glory of martyrdome is all one And againe comparing Innocentius the pope with Irinaeus Ciprian Hilary he hath Cum his Innocentius Romanus Pontifex consedit etsi posterior tempore prior loco With these sate Innocentius the bishop of Rome although behinde them Lib. 1. cōtra Iulian. c. 2. in time yeat before them in place Yea to comfort you the more I dare promise yow the companie of S. Cyprian him selfe For if he had not bene of the minde that some bishoppes are inferiour to other in iurisdiction althoughe not in the substance or nature of bishoply ordre woulde he haue exhorted yea and required the B. of Rome to write lettres in to Fraunce to direct them to the prouince and people of Arles wherby they shoulde depose Martianus the B. there Lib. 3. epi. stol 3. With what face could he haue done this had he thought that the auctoritie of one bishop were no greater then that of an other But here you will vrge me that it is not enough to shewe by probable coniectures that in these wordes Saint Cyprian had no suche meaning vnlesse I showe withal what was his meaning Yes verily M. Nowell it were enough for me to proue that the sense which you giue to these wordes of his coulde not be true but for their sakes who desire to knowe not onely what is false but what is all so true I will open that pointe to This is therefore by this epistle of S. Cyprian moste euident that these naughty men who complained vpon S. Ciprian at Rome went first before they toke their iourney to Rome in to Numidia and there ioyned them selues to certeine hereticall bisshoppes of whome Fortunatus was made a bishop and so by reason that none were made bishoppes that stode excōmunicate it must nedes be that he was by them first absolued These hereticall bishoppes of Numidia these wicked subiectes of his owne who demaunded helpe and complained where they ought not he calleth by the name of a fewe lost and desperate men who had attempted and done so manie thinges to the derogation of the auctoritie of their owne primate and submitted them selues to the vnlaufull auctoritie of heretical and schismaticall bishoppes quasi minor videatur esse authoritas episcoporum in Africa constitutorum As though the auctoritie seme to be lesse of the African bishoppes then of those of Numidia we must supplye who toke vpon them to defende and mainteine Fortunatus and his felowes condemned in Africa before By which is ment Africa the lesser wherein Carthage stoode from which Numidia was a distincte prouince whereas yow M. Nowell take Africa for the whole as it is counted the thirde parte of the worlde pretending as thoughe no one bishop of the other two partes of the worlde had more auctoritie then the bishoppes of Africa Excepte this be the meaning of the place you can not excuse S. Cyprian of being contrary to him selfe as by the auctoritie acknowledged by him in the pope in Fraunce in Spaine in Carthage as you haue hearde as by the calling in this verye epistle the churche of Rome the mother churche and roote of the catholike churche it dothe manifestly appeare Whiche of so graue an auctor is not to be thought To conclude therefore S. Cyprian dothe not here forbid all appellations from a bishop of one countrie to the B. of an other He saieth not that all bishoppes be of like auctoritie that none but naughtie and desperate men doe thinke the auctoritie of some bishoppes to
the lacke of his visible presence by appointing as in well one in his steede to the behooffe of the whole churche as of particuler churches For this one heade lest any man might cauill that he might erre and drawe all after Lucae 22. him Christ him selfe prayed saieng in the gospell to Peter whome he left in his place to be that heade I haue praied for the that thy faithe maye not faile We may not doubte therfore but that he obteined his petition We haue no cause to doubte considering that hetherto all other apostolicall seates and moste famouse churches of the worlde as Antioche Alexandria Hierusalem Constantinople hauing perniciously erred in the faithe and being quite ouerthrowen this onley seate of the chiefe heade of Christes churche the churche of Rome I meane against so manie wicked Emperours openly assaulting it so many De vtilit credendi ad Hoaorat Cap. 17. subtile heretikes craftily vndermining it and barcking rounde about it as S. Austen saieth so manie meanes inuented to bring it to defende euill and perniciouse doctrine hathe in all these difficulties continued allwaies and by goddes grace euer shall continue pure and vnspotted Beside this to stoppe all youre starting holes at once nowe for hereafter yow can not saye that by this reason of mine whereby I go about vpon the necessitie of one heade in euerie diocesse to proue the like ouer the whole churche it shoulde folowe aswell that there ought to be ouer all the kingdomes of the worlde one chiefe king or emperour because as I saide once before all the kingdomes in the worlde meete not together by goddes ordinaunce in one kingdome as all the churches doe in one churche Which if they did off necessitie they shoulde being one bodye haue one heade And therfore in this case I Lib. de vnitate eccles Cap. 12 maie saye with S. Austen Nèque enim quia in orbem terarrum plerunque regna diuiduntur ideo Christiana vnitas diuiditur Neither because kingdomes for the moste parte be diuided through the worlde therefore is Christian vnitie diuided also And yeat this is the thing that M. Nowell laboureth to bring to passe that because there be many kingdomes and consequently many kinges there shoulde be many churches and so many rulers of the churche or goddes apointment of gouerning the worlde by many kinges made frustrate and so no mo kingdomes then there be churches Thus I haue showed yow M. Nowell howe this place of S. Cyprian maketh for my purpose referring those wordes Neque vnus in ecclesia ad tempus sacerdos ad tempus iudex c. Neither that there is one prieste and one iudge acknowledged in the churche in the steede of Christe for the time to the proufe of the necessitie of one heade ouer the whole churche by an ineuitable consequent taken from S. Cyprians wordes not as directly ment of the pope as you laboure to make men beleue spending manie wordes here in vaine to proue that these wordes shoulde be spoken of S. Cyprian him selfe To all the which long processe of youres I will then make answere when I shall vse the place to suche purpose as you imagine I doe Although this I will aduertise you of by the way that the case is not altogether so clere as you take it to be that this place of S. Cyprian is only to be taken as spoken of him selfe and not of Cornelius as to him that shall considre that no particuler bishop is able to staye schismes so conueniently whereas the bishoppes of diuerse prouinces be of equall auctoritie as that one bishop that hathe auctoritie ouer the whole nombre of bishoppes it can not but be manifest And yeat maie euerie man see in this place that the one bishopp of whome S. Cyprian speaketh should be suche as being obeied there shoulde be no schismes in Christes church Which can be vnderstande of no one particuler bishop but of some such one as because his auctoritie is vniuersal it will folowe that the obeing of him shall procure to the whole churche to the colleage of priestes quietnes and vnitie Againe when S. Cyprian handling of purpose this argument of the vnitie off the church telleth vs how the the diuel haleth men to heresies and schismes because they go not to the beginning of the truthe seeke not out the heade obserue not the heauenly maisters teaching and addeth immediatly that our lorde saide to Peter Thow arte Peter c. as though he woulde teache * Not as M. Iuell iuglgeth with this place in 3. his printed sermoÌ„ vs therby Matth. 18. to come to the beginning of the truthe to finde out the heade to kepe the teaching of Christ that he disposed by his auctoritie that vnitie shoulde begin of one Last of all that he holdeth not the faithe that holdeth not the vnitie of this churche that began of Petre ought not these wordes vttred to teache vs to auoide schismes be a rule to directe vs to S. Cyprians meaning in this place where he saieth that heresies and schismes rise because one iudge in the church in the stede of Christe is not obeied But leauing the defence of this interpretation to those that haue so alleaged and vnderstode the place who are able it is not to be doubted to giue good reason of their doinges I will procede to that which foloweth Concerning the Apologie wherewith I founde faulte for saing that Christe in the gouernement of his churche â—ol 38. b. 7 vseth not the ministerye off anye one generall heade c which you labour here to defende I saie that it hathe not onely committed this faulte in denieng this maner off gouernement in Christes churche the contrarie whereof S. Cyprians wordes by a necessary consequent importe but is blasphemouse also against Christe whose ordonaunce it is to haue one heade to gouerne in his steade the churche by affirming so peremptorily that it is not possible for anye man alone to be hable to susteine that office To the which two if I shoulde adde this beside that it was moste foolishely vttred first of the Apologie and nowe moste impudently defended by yow it might perhappes moue Not impossible for one man alone to gouerne the churche vnder Christe youre cholere a litle but yeat M. Nowell it is true For what man that had but a cromme of witt in his heade woulde call that a thing impossible to be done which him selfe for the space of 900. yeares can not denie to haue bene done Denye if you can that thus manie yeares the whole worlde hathe not in spirituall matters obeyed one heade the B. of Rome I presse you not nowe with the first six hundred yeares before in the which the ecclesiasticall histories and writinges of the fathers make moste euident mention that this auctoritie of one generall heade was thorough out the whole worlde acknowledged of all men To this one heade appellations were made from all partes of
40. a. 1. were bothe of one minde Therefore saie I they bothe proue the necessitie of one heade Neither care I whether S. Hierome speake in this dialogue of the B. of Rome by name or no. It suffiseth to proue my entent that as by youre owne confession S. Cypriah is of the minde that in euerye diocesse there must be one prieste and iudge in the stede of Christe whome all the rest must obeye so S. Hierome also is of the same The which being once graunted it foloweth verie well that seing for one litle diocesse a heade ouer so meane men as parishe priestes be is precisely necessarie muche more is a heade in earthe ouer all the bishoppes which haue euerie one of them so greate power ouer their owne flocke lest theye abuse the same of greter and more forcible necessitie And therefore you take greate paines to no purpose to proue that S. Hierome speaketh not of the B. of Rome but of euery other bishop the which thinge I woulde hier you to proue for me For whereas if he had spoken of the B. of Rome by name it had bene a reason grounded vpon the auctoritie of S. Hierome alone now being spoken of euerie bishop it confirmeth by reconing the necessitie of one heade particulerly in euerye diocesse the greate necessitie of the same one heade in the whole bodie of the churche by naturall reason also which proueth my purpose better then any priuate mānes auctoritie can doe If cancred malice and desire to be reuenged had not caried yow so far and fast awaye that it gaue you no leisor to loke backe to the title of the argument that is here handled youre selfe woulde sone haue perceiued howe litle it were necessarie to haue in this place anie speciall mention made of the B. of Rome Which if yow had once marcked then woulde you neuer haue gathered so foolilishely and vnlearnedly out of the argument of the dialogue fol. 40. a. 6 writen by Erasmus Liber est c. The booke is very worthye to be reade as the whiche doth conceine manie ▪ wholesom preceptes M. Nowell a weake reasoner concerning the life of bishoppes that there was nothing in the same dialogue not asmuche as one worde that is special to the B. of Rome onelye For all thoughe there be no one worde there speciall to the B. of Rome as it is not necessary that there be how shoulde yeat this auctoritie presse him that woulde maintaine the contrary and saye to you what M. Nowell I thinke your wittes faile you Maye there not be some one worde speciall to the B. of Rome in that dialogue because it conteineth manie wholesome preceptes concerning the life of bishoppes Is not the B of Rome a bishop Muche like or more foolishe then this are youre other notes gathered here and there out of this dialogue to proue that which you saie of euerye bishoppes auctoritie and to reproue my wresting as you terme it of this place to the auctority of one bishop ouer the whole church For who sence reason was first poured in to mannes heade harde euer of one that occupieth the place of a wise man a more folishe or brainesicke kinde of reasoning then is this S. Hierome speaketh in diuerse places of this dialogue of manye bishoppes because the question was whether bishoppes returning from their heresies shoulde be vnbishopped or no before they were reconciled Ergo He meant not in the place alleaged that there shoulder be one chiefe bisshoppe in the churche This semed to your self to be farre from the marke I doubte not when you promise to come nearer to the place by fol. 40. b. 22. fol. 41. b. me alleaged And therefore you bring in certeine sentences going next before to proue that which I denie not that S. Hierome speaketh of euery bishop in his owne diocesse And thereupon you conclude And therefore this whole matter is altogether impertinent to Nowell fol. 42. b. 9 D. Harding and M. Dormans purpose of one onelye heade ouer the whole churche Vnlesse M. Dorman woulde frame vs thereof this lewde argument S. Hierome saieth that euery bishop ought to haue auctoritie aboue all other priestes of his owne diocesse Ergo the B. of Rome ought to haue a preeminence peerelesse aboue all bishoppes of all diocesses and ouer the whole church thorough out the whole worlde No M. Nowell I will not reason so in this place because Dorman the argument whiche I handle forceth me not so to doe But if I had so reasoned or woulde so reason as yow thinke no man being awake wil yeat am I he that euē in my slepe M. Nowell were able to defende that argument againste yow staring with bothe youre eyes wide open vpon me And that youre selfe perceiued well inough and therefore like a tendre harted mā as lothe to breake my sweete slepe you stolle from it as softlye as you might For this being I praye you first graunted that euery bishop ought to haue auctoritie aboue all other priestes of his owne diocesse and the reason being as S. Hierome hathe here and you in making the argument guilefully left out for the auoiding of schismes I woulde infer for the minor or seconde proposition but the same reason for the auoiding of schismes dothe no lesse yea more enforce that one haue perelesse auctoritie ouer the bishops and priestes of the whole world Ergo there must be one suche heade and that by a consequent the B. of Rome who hathe euer so bene reputed and taken except you by youre deanely auctoritie haue power to appoint some other But I brought not S. Hieromes auctoritie VVhy S. Hierome was first alleaged M. Nowell to conclude so particulerly or to force it to the B. of Romes supremacy but only to proue the necessitie of one generall heade ouer Christes vniuersal churche the which no reasonable man can denie but that most effectually it dooth So that nowe youre greate musing at any man that shall to this sense alleage this place of S. Hierome maye appeare rather to procede off some dumpish melancolike vapours occupieng youre fonde and idle heade or lacke of other matter to thinke vpon then vpon any iust cause or good grounde and that also yow haue vntruly saide of me that I haue wrested this place In answering the place of S. Hierom to Euagrius you saie Nowell fo 4◠b. 18 first that he sheweth that praesbiter and episcopus a prieste and a bishop be all one by the first institution and by the lawe of God If it had pleased yow so to haue taken S. Hierome he Dorman might haue ment that the name of a prieste and the name of a bishop was all one in the vse of speche in the holie scriptures and in the sacrament of ordres but not in dignitie preeminence and auctoritie For a bishop is preferred before a prieste in iurisdiction allthough their names were once confounded Neither are all those thinges
by and by to be confounded as one in truthe and nature the names whereof be confounded Otherwise because the Apostles are in the gospell called disciples an Apostle and a disciple are all one which is well knowen not to be so Likewise though the termes of prieste and bishop were common yeat the thinges were neuer one in so muche that S. Austen making mention of the heresie of Aerius saieth Dicebat etiam praesbiterum ab episcopo nulla differentia secerni debere He saide Ad quod vult Deum haeres 57. also that a prieste ought to be distinguished from a bishop by no difference But what meane you here M. Nowell to talcke so much of the equalitie of bishoppes and priestes being a matter in this place nothing to oure purpose Or if it were seing it might be saide that euen as the olde canons as I declared before in that equalitie which is in priestehode vsed yeat In the 6. chapitre fol. 33. b. the worde Archipraesbiter chiefe prieste and ordeined suche a dignitie in the churche so there is nothing that letteth why in the equalitie of bishoppes and priestes while no one is more bishop or prieste then an other there maie How one bishop is equall to an other not be degrees notwithstanding of superioritie allthough not in the sacrament of ordres which is common to them all yeat in the execution of that power that is conferred thereby But perhappes you be of the opinion youre selfe that there ought to be no difference betwene a bishop and a prieste and therefore are the gladder to snatche occasion by all meanes direct or indirect to vtter youre minde therin Nowe foloweth vpon this grounde laied that bishoppes and priestes be by the first institution and the lawe of God one youre conclusion whereby you will make it appeare that you haue not without cause made mention of this equalitie of bishoppes and priestes So that all bishoppes which be the successours of the Apostles Nowell b. 24. be also praesbiteri that is to saie elders or priestes Whereof it foloweth also that there is an equalitie emongest all bishoppes by goddes lawe as the equall successours of the Apostles And that this is S. Hieromes minde in that place all learned men who haue reade the saide epistle doe well knowe This was not the minde of S. Hierome but is an idle Dorman phantasy of youre owne The learned knowe and to their iudgement I appeale that his minde was here to compare together the state of a prieste and a bishop in the sacrament of holie ordres common aswell to the one as to the other that so he might refell the better the errour of those who helde that deacons ought to be equall to priestes as appeareth by these wordes of his in the beginning of the epistle In this epistle ad Euagri◠Nam quum Apostolus c. For whereas the Apostle teacheth manifestly that priestes and bishoppes be one what eyleth the seruaūt * He meaneth deacons of widowes and tables arrogātly to extoll him selfe aboue them at whose praiers the bodie and bloud of Christe is made Doth not this example put in the consecrating of the bodie and bloude off Christe the whiche the poorest prieste that is hathe as good auctoritie to doe giuen hym in the sacrament of holie ordres as the pope him selfe declare that S. Hieromes minde was no otherwise to make priestes equall to bishoppes but in the only ordre of priestehode common to bothe Yea but yow will saie that the Apostles were equall in all respectes for if you saie not so you can not conclude absolutely as yow doe that all bishoppes their successours be so equall If yow saie so that is but your bare Lib. 1. contra Iouinianum saing only not by the auctoritie of S. Hierome confirmed but most plainly by the same impugned Who in one place saieth that emongest the twelue there was a heade chosen Peter by name and in an other place that Christ made Peter In cap. Marci 14. Note the cause of appointing one heade the maister of his house THAT VNDER ONE SHEPHERD THERE MAY BE ONE FAITH Which is directly against the equalitie that you build vpō But let it be graunted vnto you that the apostles were equal yeat shall not your cōclusion folow for all that For it is to be considered that in the Apostles there is a double respect which is to be weighed nowe of vs. Either we considre them as they were all Apostles or as they were bishoppes As they were Apostles they How the Apostles were all equall were all equall they had all like power to preache and teache thorough out the whole worlde As they were bishoppes and rulers of particuler churches they were all subiect to Petre the chiefe bishop of all As they were Apostles that is to saye generall legates to plante Christes faithe thorough out all the world to founde churchs to preach the word of God finally to gouerne vniuersally in all places where their should come they trāsmitted this right none of thē to their successours but only Peter who was the generall shepherd of all Which is the cause that some of the fathers namely S. Austē saie that the power giuen to Peter was giuē to him In psalm 208. in the persone of the church because it was not giuē to him alone but to all his successours to cōtinue for euer As the Apostles were bishops of particuler places their auctoritie ended not with them but wēt further to the whole church to cōtinue for euer Now to applye this to our purpose howe doe the bishoppes that now are succede the Apostles They succede them as bishoppes not as Apostles For if they succeded them so who seeth not that as the Apostles made lawes absolued excommunicated and ruled thorough out all How bisshoppes be the successours of the Apostles the worlde where so euer they came so might the bishoppes that nowe succede thē doe the like The which thing seing we finde by no recordes sith the apostles time that euer it was practised in the church and if it should it were the nexte waie to disquiet al the worlde and to fill the churche full of schismes and heresies reason it selfe dothe conuince that the ordre taken emongest the Apostles was but by speciall priuileage not appointed to continue for euer or to derogate anie thing from the generall ordre begonne in Peter and appointed to be perpetuall as long as the church shoulde endure To conclude therfore I graunte to you M. Nowell that the Apostles were equall as they were all the generall legates of Christe but not as they had their speciall bishoprikes and charges limited vnto them In which latter sense because the bishoppes that are nowe succede the Apostles in which pointe they were not equall it foloweth against you that all bishoppes be not equall Iff yow will saye that the Apostles were also equall euen in that that
schismes be taken away Thus farre S. Hierom. By which words as it appeareth that the schismes were in particuler churches so the heades of whome he speaketh were afterwarde by his minde chosen in particuler churches Thus is S. Hierome expounded by him selfe which I trust the learned will like much better then suche crooked gloses of youres as tende to no other ende but to the defacing of the graue and learned fathers as this coulde not choose but here discredite S. Hierome if in a matter of suche weight as this is he shoulde be founde contrarie to him selfe It foloweth This which was thus done afterwarde saieth S. Hierome was done rather for the honour of priestehod then for the necessitie of Nowell fol. 43. b. 4 the lawe For by the lawe of God which is first the prieste as S. Hierome saieth may doe asmuche excepting ordering only as maye the bishop but afterwarde for ordre one was placed in the highest place for the auoiding of schismes And if a prieste by S. Hieromes minde may doe as muche as a bishop I thinke also one bishop may by goddes lawe doe as muche as an other bishop Beholde here good reader in M. Nowell a singuler Dorman pointe of false and vntrue dealing which although it be with him in this booke of his and other his companions in their other doinges a thing verie common and therfore the lesse to be merueiled at yeat surelie is it in the wresting of this place of S. Hierome of all other moste euident to be perceiued For whereas S. Hierome in his Dialogues against the Luciferians hath that this ordre in the churche that the bishop confirmeth those that are Christened not the prieste was taken rather for the honour of priestehode then for the necessitie of the lawe M. Nowell to make the matter S. Hierom beelied by M. Nowell 29. probable that this ordre of hauing one heade in the church shoulde not be grounded vpon goddes worde and that there is no necessitie in it but done rather to honour priesthode applieth it to these wordes of S. Hierome to Euagrius where in expresse wordes he hathe that the appointing one to rule and gouerne the rest was to be a remedie against schismes For the better vnderstanding of this false dealing of his I shall wishe those that either haue not the worckes of S. Hierome at hande or if they haue vnderstande not them in Latine or if they doe can not so easelie turne to the place to considre them as they folowe here in this place Quôd si hoc loco quaeris quare in ecclesia baptizatus nisi per manus episcopi non accipiat spiritum sanctum quem nos asserimus in vero baptismate tribui disce hanc obseruationem ex ea authoritate descendere quod post ascensum domini spiritus Hieron in dialog aduer Lucifer sanctus ad apostolos descendit Et multis in locis idem factitatum reperimus ad honorem potius sacer dotij quam ad legis necessitatem Alioqui si ad episcopi tantum imprecationem spiritus sanctus defluit lugēdi sunt qui in viculis aut castellis aut in remotioribus locis per praesbiteros diaconos baptizati ante dormierunt quà m ab episcopis inuiserentur That is to saye But if in this place thow aske of me wherfore he that is baptised in the church dothe not receiue the holie ghost but byt he handes of the bisshop the which holye ghost we doe all affirme to be giuen in true baptisme Learne this obseruation to come of that auctoritie that after the ascension of oure lorde the holie ghost came downe to the Apostles And we finde that the same is done in manie places rather for the honour of priestehode then of necessitie of the lawe Els if the holie ghost come downe only at the praier of the bishop they are to be lamented who being baptised by priestes and deacons in litle townes or villages or places further of doe dye before they be visited by the bishoppes Hetherto the wordes of S. Hierome Nexte after the whiche because it foloweth that the high prieste must haue auctoritie peerelesse aboue all other otherwise that there will be as manie schismes in the churche as there be priestes M. Nowell thinketh that he might vnderstand both the peerelesse auctoritie aboue all other that is mentioned in the dialogue against the Luciferians and the preeminence that one had giuen to rule the rest as for a remedye against schismes spoken off in this epistle to Euagrius to be ment of onely power to confirme children or other lately baptised which because bishoppes had and priestes had not he thinketh S. Hierome should call by the name of a peerelesse power able to be a remedie against all schismes For so vnderstandeth he this place here and before fol. 41. b. 20. But nowe I praye yow let me aske of you M. Nowell when S. Hierome had saide that this obseruation that the bishop shoulde confirme and not the prieste came of this that the holie ghoste after Christes ascension came downe to the Apostles when he added Et multis in locis idem factitatum reperimus c. And in manie places we finde the same to be done rather for the honour of priestehod then necessitie of the lawe What idem what same thing constrew M. Nowell was it that was so done to honour priesthode rather then for necessitie Was not it the ministring of the Sacrament of Confirmation Doe not the wordes that folowe nexte after Alioqui si ad episcopi c. Otherwise if the holye ghoste come downe only at the praier of the bishop c. spoken to proue that there was no suche necessitie of the Sacrament of Confirmation as thoughe to them that dwelling far from the bishop and dieng before they were confirmed the holye ghost shoulde not be giuen in baptisme euidently conuince that S. Hierome ment off that pointe of preeminence that the bishop hathe aboue a prieste in ministring of this sacrament that that was not of the necessitie of the lawe c not of that power of gouernement that we dispute of But what labour I to conuince this wresting of youres to belieng and vntrue which who so euer shall reade the place can not but presently perceiue if he haue his common senses Who is so verie a dolt that when he heareth you bringing in S. Hierome prouiding for the peace of the churche that is the auoiding off schismes this souereigne remedie that the bishop of euerye diocesse maye confirme children or other lately baptised which the priestes cā not do and that there in cōsisteth his peerelesse power wil not be able to tel you that this reason procedeth from some franticke braine M. Nowell not frō the staied and graue heade of S. Hierome For what staye for schismes what remedie against heresies were it like to be tell vs I coniure you by youre wisedome that first founde out this speciall remedie if
nombre of priestes there ought to be one chiefe ruler chosen as though only Petre had bene a bishop and the other apostles pore priestes and no more Where is nowe the equalitie that you are wont to obiect to vs of the Apostles with Petre Who maketh the Apostles more inferiour to Peter you or we We saie the Apostles all of them were bishoppes in one place or other you make youre count that they were only inferiour priestes Now being all of them bishoppes and Peter by youre confession their heade Who seeth not that the ordre planted by Christe in his church is that there be one bishop for the pacifieng of schismes ouer the rest Againe if 12. persones so well instructed by the spirite of God as the Apostles were had a heade appointed ouer them for remedie against schismes what reason leadeth yow to thinke that emongest so manye â—ades as be in the vniuersall churche gouernours of particuler churches not so priuileaged with grace there maye not be the like yea greater cause to feare schismes and so consequently that there ought not to be the same remedie that is to saye one heade So that if you counte youre selfe hurt when it is proued that there ought to be one chiefe heade of Christes churche you are by graunting of this prerogatiue to S. Peter aboue the rest of the Apostles verie daungerously hurte Yea but you were prouided for all suche after clappes before I doubte not Other wise so circumspect a man as you are woulde neuer haue yealded so farre And therfore you adde And if M. Dorman vpon this graunte woulde inferre suche a Nowell supremacie of one ouer the rest of the Apostles as the pope claimeth ouer the churche S. Paule reprouing Peter more sharpely Galat. 2. to his face then is laufull nowe for any bishop to deale with the pope dothe proue that Peter had no suche supremacy One thing I must here tell you by the waie M. Nowell Dorman that in debating this matter of the auctoritie of S. Peter aboue the rest of the Apostles except you forsake S. Hierome you must forgo this example of S. Paule his reprouing of S. Peter which S. Hierome holdeth against S. Austen how truly I dispute not in this place to haue bene but a made matter betwene them that Paule shoulde reprehende and Peter suffer him selfe to be reprehendid for vsing the legall ceremonies as appeareth in the epistles written to and fro betwene them And therfore if you will be tried by S. Hierome he shoulde rather holde with this supremacie as the man who if he erred in striuing with S. Austen about this reprehending of Peter erred onely because he thought it a thing vnsemely and vnlikely that S. Paule woulde so reprehende the prince of the Apostles Which was he saieth the cause why Origen and other to stoppe the mouthe of Porphirius the heretike who laied to S. Paules charge that he was ouerbolde to reprehende Peter the chiefe of the Apostles expounded this place as he did But leauing S. Hierome and graunting that Peter was truly and in deede reprehended by S. Paule let vs examine whether suche a supremacie as is here spoken of maie not by the iudgement of the learned fathers of Christes churche stande wel inough for all this reprouing of S. Peter vsed by S. Paule I will emongest other alleage to this purpose two only S. Cyprian and S. Austen Epist ad Quintum The wordes S. Cyprian are these Naâ— nec Petrus quem primum dominus elegit super quem aedificauit ecclesiam suam c. For neither Pure whome oure lorde chose to be the chiefe and vpon whome he builded his church when he contended after with Paule about circuÌ„cision reuenged him selfe or chalenged anie thing insolently or arrogaÌ„tly in saing that he had the primacy and that he ought rather to be obeied of those that were nouices and came after Thus farre S. Cyprian With whome agreeth S. Austen as he that alleageth this verie place to proue that S. Cyprian to whose auctoritie the Donatistes leaned Lib. 2. de baptis contra Donatist ea for the baptising againe of suche as were Christened by heretikes woulde easely suffer him selfe for his humilitie being but one bishop or the doinges of his owne prouince either to be corrected by the statutes of the whole churche seing that he praised S. Peter in whome was the primacie of the Apostles for the same vertue of humilitie in suffering him selfe to be reproued of S. Paule Thus it appeareth that S. Paules resisting of S. Peter was no derogatioÌ„ to S. Peters auctoritie as the which by the confessioÌ„ of both these learned fathers remained saufe and whole notwithstanding the reprehension of S. Paule and withall that you and your fellowes M. Nowell who vse so often to the derogation of S. Peters auctoritie to cite this place of the epistle Galat. 2. to the Galathians doe shamefully abuse the same with no small iniurie to the blessed apostles bothe But yeat you fare that I haue saide nothing all this while to this that Peters supremacie was no suche as is the popes whome no man may blame what so euer he doe Yes sir the pope maie be blamed Neither doe the texte nor the glose by you here alleaged saye the contrarie And so haue diuerse good men freelie reprehended diuerse popes S. Bernard a moÌ„ke reprehended Eugenius the third more sharpely iwisse as youre selues can full well tel and therfore make much of him in that respect then euer did S. Paule reproue S. Petre. Paulus 4. was admonished by lettres writteÌ„ by one in Rome of the vnhonest behauiour of his nephues the two Caraffas He toke the aduertisemeÌ„t in good parte and banished them the courte immediatly What should I remembre the lettres written by Petrus a So to a frier also to Pius the pope that nowe is wherin he admonished him freely to take ordre that bishoppes and other inferiour pastours might be compelled Dat. Tridenti 17. Aprilis Anno Do. 1563. Nowell fol. 44. b. 24. to kepe resideÌ„ce with their charges and threatened to him vtter daÌ„nation in the iudgemeÌ„t of God vnlesse he did It foloweth not you saye that one being chosen to beruler emongest twelue that therefore one maie be also chosen to be ruler ouer all the cleargie of the worlde No more do the it that because there was one chosen of euerye one churche or diocesse to rule the reste that therefore there shoulde be one chosen to rule all bishoppes of all diocesses namely at Rome and the saide ruler to be called pope or heade of the vniuersall churche The first answere touching that one heade emongest Dorman Institut li. 4. cap. 6. Sect. 8. fol. 53. a. b the Apostles you learned of youre Maister Caluin against whome I haue proued that the consequent holdeth verye well in my first booke The argument I haue showed oftentimes howe it holdeth and last of all in the
in the easte churches that they might the rather ouerronne the catholikes The one parte giueth a perfect cause of their testimonie because they were present when the matter was concluded Imagine nowe the other who hauing sought in the east churche for suche a decree saide they founde no suche to saie which they doe not that they had harde of some that were present at the councell that there was no suche thing decreed which witnesses were to be beleuid This that hath bene saide maye seme I doubte not to anye reasonable man a sufficient cause why we ought to giue full credite to Athanasius and those other bishoppes and pronounce for the innocencie of Zozimus Yeat to make it the better appeare how true it is that Athanasius Manie canons made in the 1. councell of Nice that we haue not nowe saieth of the burning of the Nicene canons I will note vnto yow certeine canons which the fathers and stories off the churche witnes to haue bene concluded in that councell which yeat are not emongest those twentie whiche we haue I will first beginne with S. Ambrose who telleth you M. Nowell that you haue done euell being twise maried Epi. 82. li. 10. colū 11 Note M. Nowell to thrust youre selfe into the ministerie of the church not only because the apostle he saieth forbiddeth it but the fathers also in the councell of Nice S. Augustin reporteth that there was a decree made in the councell of Nice that a bishop shoulde not ordeine his Epist 110. successour bshiop with him notwithstanding that him selfe he confessed by ignorance thereof was so ordeined by Valerius his bishop and predecessour Iustinian the emperour saith that it was defined by the first foure generall councels that the B. of Rome should be Constitut 131. the chiefe of all other priestes S. Hierome saieth that the booke of Iudith was counted emongest the canonicall by the fathers of Nice In praefat in Iudith Theodoritus alleageth a decree of giuing ecclesiasticall degrees of consecrating bishops made also by the councell of Nice Lib. 5. cap. 9. Leo affirmeth that there was an other canon touching the doctrine of Christes incarnation Epist ad Leonē 78. Where is there anie canon of the obseruation of the Easter daye the desire of the vniforme obseruation whereof Histor tripart lib. 1. cap. vlt. Haere 70. Lib. 2. ca. 2 was one cause why the councell of Nice was called Yeat dothe bothe Epiphanius and the tripartite historye make mentiō of a decree made by the fathers touching the same Youre Apologie citeth out of the councell off Nice that we ought not to be humiliter intēti ad panem et vinum ouer basely bent to breade and wine We confesse it to be true but shew you it emongest the canons Who doubteth that the councell of Nice was assembled together against Arrius Yeat shewe one canon againste him emongest the 20. that remaine Was there thinke yow none made That were surely a strange matter that in the whole doinges thereof nothing should haue bene concluded against him for the repressing of whome the councell was specially called together Howe saye you now M. Nowell is it likely that the Arrians burned the canons of the councel or no Are all these falsaries and corrupters that haue alleaged thus manye canons to be of the councell of Nice because at this daye there is none of them extant I thinke you will not saye so If yow will not why Zozimus more then they Yes you saye there is an other cause why if not Zozimus for I thinke by this tyme you be ashamed of that matter yeat some other hath fasified those canons What is that I praye yow Because there appeared in the copies sent from the Easte the Nowell fol. 47. a. 11. cleane contrarye to that whiche the pope claimeth For the sixt and seuenth decree off the sayde Nicene councell make the patriarkes of Alexandria Antiochia and Hierusalem equall with the bisshoppes of Rome Trulye if it had bene so it is merueile that Athanasius Dorman who was there present shoulde haue bene ignorant of it Therefore excepte you will saye that either this epistle is feined and not Athanasius owne as that is wont in other auctorities brought against yow to be youre common and last refuge when you be sore pressed which if you doe you must not onelye saye it but proue it also Or that his memorie was so euill that he coulde not remembre so notable a thing so latelye before done or his malice so greate that he woulde faine that which neuer was done you muste nedes graunte that this sixt and seuenth canon haue an other meaning then to make the patriarkes of Alexandria Antiochia and Hierusalem equall with the bishoppes off Rome And so haue they in dede For the true meaning of The true vnderstanding of the 6. and 7. canon of the councel of Nice them is to appoint the limites and boundes of those primates iurisdictions of whom mention is there made according to the custome of the bishop of Rome As the wordes whiche answere trulye to the greke and are in Latine these doe wel declare Antiqui mores obtineant in Agipto Libia Pentapoli vt Alexandrinus horum omnium habeat potestatem quia episcopo Romano hoc consuetum est Similiter etiam per Antiochiam in caeteris prouincijs priuilegia seruentur ecclesijs Let olde customes be kepte in Aegypt Libia and Pentapoli that the B. of Alexandria haue the auctoritie ouer them all for as muche as the B. of Romes maner is suche Semblablye also thorough out Antioche and in other prouinces let the churches haue their priuileges kepte These wordes of the councell as they doe nothing at all diminishe the B. of Romes auctoritie so doe they confirme it verie muche The reason of the councell why the iurisdiction of the B. of Alexandria shoulde extende so far being beside the auncient custome in those partes the custome also of the B. Rome who it is to be thought vsed of long time so to alow it by conteining in his rescriptes those prouinces vnder the patriarchie of Alexandria Which was now brought as an argumēt to confirme and continue the same For this meaning that they should be all equall in power and auctoritie there is no worde there able to induce Except a man woulde bring in those graue fathers reasoning thus foolishely because the B. of Rome hath iurisdictiō ouer his owne bishoprike for more you giue him not and the councell nameth no place at all therfore the B. of Alexandria shall haue iurisdiction ouer all the bishoppes of Aegipt Libia and Pentapoli Had not this bene thinke you a goodly making of them equall If you will saie that the councell ment that the B. of Rome shoulde be patriarke in the west partes and therein they shoulde be equall beside that there be no suche wordes in the councell to inforce suche a meaning yeat shoulde
together stande in some stede You go forwarde and saye For the which it pleaseth D. Harding to call the Aricans emongest Nowell ◠25. whom S. Austen Orosius and Prosper with manie other learned and godly bishoppes were schismatikes as those that submitted not their neckes to the pope and folowing Hosius his auctor he saith that Africa cōtinued in this schisme 100. yeares to wit from Boniface the first to Boniface the seconde M. Doctour Harding neuer mentto inuolue S. Austen Dorman Orosius or Prosper in anie schisme with the Africanes For as at this councell it appeareth not in the recordes thereof that Orosius who neuer was bishop but only a prieste and therfore could giue no definitiue voice in the councell that cōsisted of only bishoppes or Prosper either were present so is it more then probable that S. Austen who to the first epistle sent to Bonifacius gaue his consent and subscribed with other wherein they protested to obserue all thinges demaunded by the pope till they coulde get from the Easte the true copies of the councell of Nice it is I saie more then probable that forasmoche as in this latter epistle to Celestinus no mention is made of him at all notwithstanding that he was legat for Numidia his name so famouse his bisshoprike so greate that he sawe in the meane season so muche right in the bishop of Romes cause and so little in the other allthough by no meanes their doinges tended to the vniuersall abrogating of the popes auctoritie that he refused so muche as to put his name or suffer him selfe to be named in those lettres of theirs So that before yow had charged M. D. Harding thus odiously you ought to haue proued that suche a decree was made in the African councell and haue noted to vs the canon then that Orosius and Prosper were present at the making thereof and gaue their consentes therto Last because yow seing that the decree of the councell was not to be founde referred youre selfe to the epistle written to Celestinus yow shoulde haue tolde vs in what wordes there the mention of this decree laie hidden and proued allthough S. Austens name be not there mentioned that yeat he consented therto Againe M. Nowell whē this matter betwene the B. of Rome and the Africanes began first to be called in question it was entreated with suche humilitie and submission by the Africanes as appeareth by this epistle to Celestinus that they coulde by no meanes be accounted schismatikes Afterwardes in dede the matter grewe so farre that it burst out in to open schisme and so continued to the time of Boniface the 2. To the which schisme that euer S. Austen Orosius or Prosper consented or any other good catholike prieste or bishop yow shall neuer be able to proue And so this lye with that houge Lye 43. heape of all the rest remaineth with you and the truth with vs. But because you bragge as you doe of the companie of S. Austen and Prosper and sclaundre them to the worlde to be schismatikes I will in defence of their innocency alleage out of their workes so muche as shall I trust with the better sorte suffice for their purgation Who is it I praie you M. Nowell that saieth of the church of Rome that in it the principalitie of the apostolike chaire hathe August epist 162. euer florished Who calleth Bonifacius the same in whose time this controuersie was moued the bishoppe that hathe Lib. 1. contra 2. epis Pelag. ca. 1 the preeminence in the bishoply care aboue all other Who calleth the See of Rome alluding to the wordes of Christe in the Psalm contra partē Donat. gospel the rock which the proude gates of hell shal not ouercome Who but S. Austē whom you be not here ashamed to matche with your selfe as thinking of the pope and See of Rome as heretically as you doe To come to Prosper when you here him acknowledg that Zozimus of whom all this talke riseth added to the decrees of the African councelles sententiae suae robur the strength and force of his sentence Lib. contra Collatorem cap. 41. that with Peters sworde to the cutting of of wicked men he armed the right handes of all bishoppes for so are his wordes in Latine ad impiorum detruncationem gladio Petri dexteras omnium armauit antistitum When you are not ignoraunt if you knowe anye thinge that the same Prosper saieth Lib. contra Collatorem cap. 10. that the holye See of Rome spake to all the worlde by the mouthe of Zozimus Will you not for shame call backe againe that wretched sclaunderouse lye off youres that Prosper shoulde be touching the bishoppe of Rome of the same minde that yow are Was Zozimus taken off Prosper to be a corrupter and falsarye a countrefeite catholike and in deede a false schismatike from Christe and the truthe as youre venimouse tongue hath not feared to pronounce of him Is fier more contrary to water then is this iudgemēt of youres to that of Prospers for his vertue and auctoritie You pretend that the fathers of the coūcel of Carthage would barre Zozimus of al auctority Prosper telleth vs that so much he was estemed of them that they had the strength of his sentence added to their decrees as muche to saye as to confirme and alowe them You call him a corrupter a falsarie a countrefeite catholike a false schismatike Prosper calleth him one that armed the right handes of al bishoppes with Peters sworde to cut of wicked mē from the rest of Christes mistical body the church You restreine his power to Rome Prosper confesseth that by his mouthe the See of Rome spake to all the worlde If this be not more then impudencie good reader in M. Nowel then what is impudencie I confesse I know not But acknowledged Prosper this auctoritie in Zozimus onely no verilye For in Celestinus to whome this epistle here mentioned was sent from the African bishoppes he witnesseth that there was suche power that he cured the Iland The pope meddled in England Scotland Fraunce and in the East off Britannye infected with Pelagius heresie that he ordeined Palladius bishoppe ouer the Scottishe men that with the Apostolicall sworde he aided Cirillus the B. of Alexandria to purge the churches of the East of a double plague the Nestorians and Pelagians that in Fraunce he put them to silence who reported euill of S. Augustins writinges Finally to them that reiected certeine bookes of S. Augustins vpon pretence that they were not allowed by the pope he answered An exception in the primitiue churche againste bookes that they were not allowed by the Pope Ibid. ca. 43 in this wise Agnoscāt calumniatores superfluò se obijcere quòd his libris non speciale neque discretum testimonium si◠perhibitum quorum in cunctis voluminibus norma laudatur Apostolica enim sedes quod a praecognitis sibi non discrepat cum praecognitis probat
vnto the whiche doubtes of greate importaunce maye be referred then to haue manie in manie places and euerie one without respect to one chiefe to doe as he shall thinke good Howe thinke you M. Nowell is it not better in one familie to haue one Maister in one citye one Maior in one shiere one lieutenant then in a familye manie maisters in a citie manie Maiors in a shiere many lieutenātes I know not who gouerneth in your house your wife or you or bothe but this I thinke I maye be bolde to saye that if youre wife were not quarter maister onely but as muche maister as you that you were not therefore in better case then youre nexte neighbour that had the whole rule of his house him selfe Iff the streightes off youre owne house like you not loke vpon the largenes of the whole realme and iudge whether it be better to haue one liege souereigne or manie Yow hearde S. Augustines opinion Lib. de verarelig ca. 25. a better diuine I trowe then yowe touching this matter before concluding that their auctoritie was greater and they of better credite that reduced all thinges to one God because in the worckes of nature he saied it was so So in the churche M. Nowell seing that as God is one the faithe is also one one heade is better to conserue that one faithe and the vnitie thereof then many Therefore if the Iues had one heade bishoppe and the churche diuerse heades it is by all reason worse prouided for Excepte you will saie that to haue manie equall rulers in one bodie in one common wealthe is better then to haue only one Which notwitstanding before yow resembled to their fantasy who woulde haue manie equall goddes to rule the worlde But yow saie there is muche labour and paines saued Here while yow seke for ease yow leese vnitie while yowe diminishe paines yow prepare the high waie to the multiplieng off schismes Yow haue an eye to the resorting to that one heade from all places of the worlde but yow considre not the fruite of peace and vnitie that is thereby procured Make diuerse equall heades in the churche and you shall neuer be hable to auoide schismes in the same whiche S. Hierome as yow hearde before saieth can not be kepte out of particuler churches without there be one prieste of perelesse auctoritie aboue the rest Now let the learned reader iudge whether paines be well redemed by suche an inestimable benefite Yow clatter still that this heade emongest the Iues was but of one nation I tell yowe againe as I dyd before it was the churche that God had in earthe at that time But M. Dorman dealeth not truly with the Apologie c. The Nowell fo 62. b. 7 Apologie saieth that as the church decaied in the olde lawe where was the same God the same Christe the same holie ghoste c. then as is nowe so maie it and hath it decaied now M. Dorman handleth the matter as though he coulde proue by the Apologie that because where was the same God the same Christe the same holie ghost c. in the Iuishe church as is nowe therfore must there be one heade bishopp ouer all the christian churches thorough out the world as there was one heade bishop ouer all the Iues whiche foloweth no more then that we muste haue circumcision nowe for that the Iues had it then I merueile that yow be not ashamed to make anie mention Dorman The reason of the Apologie The church decaied in the olde lawe ergo it maie and hathe decaied in the newe confuted of that foolishe false and blasphemouse reason vsed by the Apologie For the concealing whereof reason woulde yow shoulde rather haue thanked me then haue accused me of vntrue dealing But wilt thow see good Reader how vntrulie I haue delt Forsothe because the proposition off one God one Christe c. brought by the Apologie serued not for the proufe of that for whiche it was brought I vsed it being a generall and true maxime to proue a true conclusion But why shoulde it not serue his purpose as well yow will saie as mine I will tell yow the cause One especiall cause why this argument of the Apologie The Synagoge hath decaied Ergo the church hath decaied defended here stoutely by M. Nowell shoulde not be good is because God hathe made other maner of promises for the continuance of his church then euer he made to the Synagoge He hath promised that hell gates shall not preuaile Matth. 16. against it This were not true if it had bene either these 15. or nine hundred yeares either ouerrun with heresies He hath appointed it to continue with the sonne and to remaine till the monel be taken awaie If because the churche Psalm 71. of the olde lawe was brought to that paucitie that some times there were but eight as in Noes time or but Elias alone Gen. 7. as he was persuaded but yeat in dede 7000. mo as God tolde him and that in Israel for in Iuda notwithstanding 3. Reg. 19. the churche florished although your Apologie had not reade so farre If I saie the churche of Christe might after 15. hundred yeares continuance be brought to the same case In the Portress◠the 6. 7. 8. and 10. chapitres nowe where were all these promises with diuerse other diligently of late gathered together made to the churche and of the churche If because in the olde lawe God was Notus in Iudea in Israel magnum nomen ei us knowen in Psalm 75. Iurie and his name greate in Israel but so no farder it maie be laufull for yow to defende youre secrete conuenticles at Geneua or elles where where is then thorough out all nations Lucae 24. beginning at Hierusalem Where is the prophecie of Dauid spoken before hande of Christes kingdome the churche that it shoulde rule from sea to sea and from the floud to the Psalm 71. ende of the worlde Seing therefore these greate promises haue bene made by all mightie God to the churche whereas to the Synagoge the figure thereof there were made no such although it decaied although at the last it vanished awaie as the priestehod and lawe did we can not conclude that therfore the same should happen to the church which hath other maner of staies to holde it vp The compilers of youre Apologie might be ashamed M. Nowell if they had not abandoned all shame and honestie to abuse after this sorte the examples of the holie scripture to proue that Christes churche might faile because in the olde lawe it was brought to some pancitie◠whiche reason they borowed of the Donatistes those wicked heretikes as appeareth by Saint Augustine who confuteth the same And Lib. de vnitat eccle cap. 12. thus haue I shewed you M. Nowell a cause why this saing of youre Apologie could not be applied to the churche of Christe that is nowe it remaineth that I answere
That whiche foloweth is but a common place of railing wherein because you talke but in youre facultie I can the lesse blame you And to reason sadlye with an outragious rayler were but you wot well to preache to frantike Tom of Bedlem The foundation you saye of altars belles banners candels Nowell fol. 67. a. 3. c. leaneth to this reason of mine It was so in the shaddowe therfore it must be so now in the body in the truth in our church This reason you thinke you saie that I like as well as the former reason of one heade and that reason it is that so I shoulde thinke No M. Nowell you are fouly deceaued if you write as Dorman you thinke But what It semeth to me that you foregtte yourselfe Will you I praye you on high dayes when you distribute those holye misteries of youres weare no cope Or if you doe muste the foundation of the wearing thereof be grounded vppon the Iuish ceremonies No you will answere I weare it because the Quenes Maiesties iniunctions will haue me doe so And oure priestes weare them because the lawes of the churche will haue them doe so Iff of youre doinges the Princes lawe maye be the grownde Whie maye not the churche be the same of oures Now if the Prince may commaunde the ministre to weare a cope Why maye not the same commaunde the bishop to weare a mitre albes and tunicles Whye maye not by the same commaundement altars belles banners candels plentie of golde and siluer be brought into the churche And then if the Prince maye commaunde it why maye not the churche of Christe doe as muche Thus reteine we these thinges as commaunded by the church not as vsed by the Iues. Who euer vseth them so is a Iue who so vseth them so sinneth deadly Neither is the reason like why I should reason from ceremonies in the lawe appointed but for the while as you woulde haue me to that by whiche I argue from thinges foreshadowed in the Synagoge to continue in the church for euer You procede and after my maner of reasoning you aske Nowell a. 13. why you maye not also reason for the scriptures to be had in a language that the people do the vnderstande For priestes to haue wiues for images to be taken awaye seing that in the Iuish churche all the people men women and children had the scripture in a language that they did well vnderstand the Leuites and priestes had wiues and children seing that in that church there were no Images especiallie when reason beside the lawe proueth that it ought to be so Who can denie suche a frende his requeste Will yow Dorman gladlye learne why my argumente shoulde holde and not youres Listen a while and you shall knowe Firste for the Scriptures I take not here vpon me to resolue that question whether it be expedient that they shoulde be in the vulgare tonge or no. For I knowe it is impertinent to oure matter But to youre question I answere that whereas you saie that women and children had the scripture in a language that they did well vnderstand that is once false for firste that Hebrue tongue wherein the scriptures were written was not the common tongue that the people vsed emongest them selfes but suche as being peculier to the learned coulde not beinge vttred by the prieste be vnderstande excepte he did firste expounde and interprete it Nexte beinge writen without pointes that is without anye vowell at all noted in the texte as we haue it nowe pointed when or by whom it is not certeinlie knowen but by the learned Iues them selues as it is thought beinge gathered together in a councell at a towne called Tiberia it foloweth that the vnlearned coulde as euill reade it as vnderstande it beinge readen till it were expounded And for this cause the 72. elders had onelie power and auctoritie to interprete the scripture and to reade it to the people as here in the Chapiter by yow alleaged Moyses dyd This beinge Exod. 24. most true as for the first point we haue the testimonie of that learned bishop Theodoretus the B. of Cyrus for the nexte that of longe time the hebrue tongue remained vnpointed the consent of the beste stories howe had then the people of the Iuishe church men women and children the scripture in a language that they did well vnderstande being readen by other The wordes of Theodoretus are these Vocem Hebraicam arbitroresse sacram Quemadmodum enim In quaest in Gen. q. 60 in templis Graecorum quidam sunt literarum characteres peculiares quos sacros appellarunt Sic deus omnium per Moysen donauit hanc linguam non naturalem sed ad docendum aptam Siquidem cum reliqui omnes loquantur lingua gentis suae in qua nati fuerint nati in Italia Italorū vtantur vòce qui in Graecia voce Graecorum qui in Perside Persarum qui in Egipto lingua Aegiptiorum loquantur nihilominus nulli pueri Hebraeorum reperiuntur qui statim hebraica lingua vtuntur sed eorum apud quos nati sunt Deinde cum parum adoleuerint docentur literarum characteres discunt literis scripturam diuinam hebraica voce scriptam That is to saie The hebrue tonge I thinke to be holie for as in the Greke temples there be certeine peculier characters of lettres whiche they call holie euen so the God of all by Moyses hathe geuen this tongue not naturall but apte to teache for whereas all other do speake the tonge of theire owne nation wherein they were borne and they whiche be borne in Italie vse the Italian tongue being borne in Grece speake the greke tongue in Persia the Persian and in Egipte the Egiptian tongue yet notwithstandinge none of the children of the Hebrues be founde whiche from the beginninge vse the hebrue tongue but their language emongest whom they be borne Afterwarde when they waxe somewhat bigge they be taughte the caracters and letters and learne in lettres holie scripture writen in the Hebrue tongue Yowe here M. Nowell that the hebrewe tongue wherin the old lawe was written was no naturall tongue that the characters and letters were peculiar that is to saie not to be vnderstande of euery man and for that cause called holy as those were that the Grekes had in their temples Yow here that it was not learned by nature as are the Englishe french Italian and other vulgare tongues but by arte as are the latine Greke and Hebrue with vs. So that as the readinge of scripture in latine helpethe nothinge the vnlearned Englishman no more did the reading of the lawe in the Hebrewe tongue proffit the vnlearned till the reader did expounde it For whiche cause by the lawe the people was commaunded to Malach. 2. demaunde the lawe at the priestes mowthe who kepte it And thus much for the lawe for your reason that they that are bounde to obey goddes lawe ought to vnderstande it
run to morowe nexte with the bloude of heretikes as God of his tendre mercie forbid suche hardenes of harte in those that professe them selues to be Christians yeat ought not therefore the cause to be iudged anie whit the better seing that we see the cursed secte of Anabaptistes and haue heard of the wicked Donatistes and knowe beside that the diuell hathe aswell his false witnesses readie to suffer gladlie moste bitter deathe for their conceaued opinions as Christe hathe his true martirs to doe the like for the true catholike faithe Thus muche be saide to M. Nowelles impertinent discourse of copes vestimentes gilted crosses candelstickes c. and to his other idle talcke of the persecution forsothe and martirdome sauing youre reuerences of his deare brethern Nowe at the length he commeth to that whiche he shoulde chiefely haue answered in this place that is of thetrieng of all controuersies by the only scripture To proue that of controuersies rising about the true vnderstandinge of the scripture the scripture it selfe should be the iudge he vseth a similitude wherin he compareth vs to the phariseis and him selfe and his companions to the Apostles And vpon that comparison reasoneth in effecte as foloweth As in the controuersie betwene the Apostles and the Phariseis Nowell fol. 69. a. 1 the question being whether Christe were the true Messias the Apostles affirming the Phariseis denieng if the matter had bene referred to the interpretation and determination of the high prieste and his consistorie we mighte yeat haue loked withe the Iues for Messias to come and as it was no reason that in the controuersie betwene the saide highe priestes and the Apostles whether they had put Christe iustlie or vniustlie to death they shoulde be them selues the iudges who were not onelie accessaries but the principall partes to the murther so must we nowe with the Apostles make the scripture the iudge of oure controuersies and the pope by all reason must be excluded as he that is the sinke of all the abhominations wherewith he that hath but halfe an eye maie see how shamefully the lawe of God is as it was by the Phariseis corrupted Youre similitude M. Nowell halteth and is not able Dorman therefore to go so far as it should For the better declaration whereof it is to be knowen that as sone as Iohn the Baptist Matth. 11. began to preache the Synagoge which had no promise to continue for euer began to languishe and so was at the length weakened that after Christes deathe it came to nothing Christe hauing then established a newe church and made his Apostles the doctours and iudges thereof and Peter the gouernour of all Now see I praye you how this similitude of youres holdeth The Apostles being the true church of Christe referred not their controuersies to the Phariseis which perteined not to the church yea were enemies and persecutours thereof but referred the same to the scriptures and iudged by the scriptures them selues ergo the church of Christe that is nowe maye not be the iudge of controuersies but we must refer the same to the scriptures I denie that consequent M. Nowell You proue it because the Apostles did not referre their controuersies to the high priestes and Phariseis I graunte you for their priestehode and auctoritie was expired When you shal be hable to proue vs Phariseis and your selues the true churche then maie you by this similitude reason that as the Apostles referred not the iudgement of the meaning of the scriptures to the Phariseis which were not the church nor of the church so you will not being the church refer the matter to vs but iudge of the scripture your selues as the Apostles The Apostles being the true churche of Christe iudged of the scriptures did In the meane season as the Apostles alleaged for thē selues the scripture and saied it made for thē wherein they gaue iudgement of the scripture so foloweth it that Christes church which is now the same that was then iudgeth in al controuersies which is the right and true sense Neither can it serue you to saie to the contrarie as you doe sclaunderouslie that the worde of God hauing bene moste shamefully by vs corrupted as he that hath but halfe an eye maie well see it is no reason being parties that we shoulde be iudges therein Seing that thus might the Phariseis haue saide euen of the Apostles them selues and laied to their charges partialitie because they were Christes scholers and disciples and so parties to the cause whiche they mainteined and also for that you haue not as yeat proued nor euer shal be hable to proue that Christes church hath euer erred in the faith or the heade thereof at anie time deliuered to the church any tradition or erroniouse opinion whereby the worde of God hath bene corrupted Which assertion of youres being moste directly against the scriptures bearing witnes so manifestly Math. 14. 16. Ioan. 14. alibi of the continuance of the churche incorrupted so often auouched by you and being the only fundation of this plea of youres that we be the Phariseis and you Christes true Apostles me thinketh you should haue done well once in so often affirming it to haue proued by one sentence of scripture or some approued auctor and not facingly to saye that he that hathe but halfe an eye maie see that it is so or elles till you coulde haue proued it it had bene more for your honestie to haue absteined from suche vnmercifull and vnchristianlike demeanure as you vse towardes bothe the church of Christe and the head thereof Where you saye that I will haue the scripture reiected there you reporte vntrulie of me This I saie that scripture not thorough anie imperfection or insufficiencie that is in it but onelie by occasiō of stubborne wrangling and contentiouse natures who neuer will giue ouer the opinion that they haue once conceiued euerie one being at apoint to receiue no other interpretation thereof thē to them shal seme good is not hable to ende and determine al cōtrouersies moued vpō the lettre thereof and that therfore euen as in the lawes of the realme whiche were to decide all controuersies sufficient so that the lawe being broughte euerie man woulde furthewithe yealde to it because they will not there be iudges by the prince appointed to cut of all altercations and to preserue the realme in quiet who when the councellours bothe of the one parte and the other haue contentiouslie disputed the matter eache of them affirming that the lawe is on his side shall by opening the meaning thereof ende the strife So is it not to be thought but that God forseing the innumerable sectes of heretikes that shoulde trouble his churche of whome there shoulde be no one no not of them that directlie blush not to teache Suencfeldius that there ought to be no scripture at all that woulde not colourablie defende the same by scripture it is not I saie to be
8. cause in the conclusion of my firste boke Reade the discourse annexed vnto the Apologie of Staphilus latelie set forthe in English Reade the fortresse You shall The first parte the last chap. finde there a numbre of your assertions holden generallie of al protestantes to be olde condemned heresies in the first six hundred yeares you shall finde that the doctrine of Iohn Caluin youre Maister bothe in the doctrine of the blessed sacrament of the altar and of baptisme is stuffed with a nombre of olde heresies condemned also in the primitiue churche Discharge youre selues first of these heresies and then saye that we saie onelie that you be heretikes We saie not onely that we be the churche but we proue it also and haue made it moste euident that you can by no meanes be the churche As of late hathe bene proued answere it when you can In some countries if the partie accused pleade not guilty and saye a. 19. Nowell naie to the crime obiected if he by diuerse tormentes enforced to confesse doe still mainteine his naye he is discharged and let goe But it can not helpe vs accused as heretikes to denie the false accusation c. I blame you not M. Nowell though for heretikes yow Dorman clayme the fauour that is wont to be shewed to murderers theues and other malefactours allthough this reason of youres that heretikes the greatest offenders that are for no crime is so greate as the faulte of heresie shoulde haue this fauour because other malefactours lesse offending haue it woulde scarselie be founde sounde if it shoulde be by the rigorouse rules of logicke examined But it nedeth not it hath other faultes enough For allthough in some couÌ„tries the parties accused denieng the faulte in suche wise as you saye be vpon their denial discharged and let go yeat is there no countrie where if the partie accused for thefte would confesse the dede but saye it were no faulte he shoulde be be so discharged the lawes coÌ„demning theft by deathe and let go And yeat this is youre case M. Nowell For you confesse the dede You denie for example sacrifice and praier for the deade you stande in defence of it as did Aâ—rius a Epiph. lib. 3. haeresi 75. condemned heretike aboue 13. hundred yeares ago Onelie your denial is that it is no heresie which thinge if it might be laufull for euerye heretike to doe and to escape euerye one giuing to heresie the title of true doctrine howé manye thinke you woulde be condemned Did not Michael Seruetus put to deathe by the procurement of Iohn Caluin at Geneua denye that he was an heretike as you doe Did Caluin anye wrong to him in condemning him who saide he coulde bring as good testimonie of his innocencye oute of Gods worde as you saye you can for youre heresies Did Cranmer any wrong to Ioane of kent because she saide she was no heretike Doe not the Anabaptistes dailye saye the same It is toe greate an absurditye M. Nowell and sauoreth of your cholere ouer much that while you labour to bring the catholikes in hatred as though they showed you lesse fauour then they doe to theeues murderers and other offendours you forget that in so doing you shewe youre selfe M. Nowell playeth the proctour for all heretikes a proctour for heretikes of all sortes and that yeat you misse of your purpose the fauour of the lawes extended to heretikes being greater then is practised vppon anie other trangressours For make the coÌ„parison aright and you shal make it betwene a theefe sorie for his theft or murderer for his offence and an heretike denieng and repenting his heresies Nowe who knoweth not in this case who hathe the greatest fauour the heretike vppon repentaunce being receiued to mercy whiche fauoure other offendours haue not To make suche false and vntrue comparisons as you doe if it procede not of ignoraunce M. Nowell surelye it commeth of malice and that is worse Where you saye A lye 64. b. 6. that I deuise God to be absent that I saye that he is dombe I saide not so Why doe you falsely burden me with that whiche I neuer thought I sayde that he is In my boke fo 9. b not present with vs in suche sorte as that we maye see him and speake with him face to face to be resolued at his mouthe of suche doubtes and questions as shoulde rise emongeste vs. Saie not you the same Doe you call him then dombe or saye that he is absent If you doe not why I more then you Nowell fol. 71. a. vnto fol. 74. a. 26. in which compasse the testimonies brought to proue that only Scripture is sufficieÌ„t to determine all coÌ„trouersies are examined Dorman S. * Depecca merit libr. 1. cap. 22. Ad Cresc lib. 2. cap. 31. 32. Augustine contending againste those who doe attribute Goddes grace and giftes to the the worthynesse of mennes merites concludeth thus Cedamus consentiamus auctoritati Scripturae sanctae quae nescit falli nec fallere Let vs giue place to the auctoritye of holy Scripture which can not be deceiued nor deceiue We saye with S. Austen Let vs giue place and agree to the auctoritie of the holy Scripture which can not be deceiued nor deceiue Will not two heires striuing aboute their fathers good des saie as muche as this commeth to of his testament desire that it maie be brought furthe and both of them offer to be tried by it and to stande to it and yeat the wordes being doubtefull require a iudge notwithstanding S. Augustine preferreth the Sriptures before the priuate opinion off Saint Cyprian So doe we toe and before anye other doctour disagreing from the scripture expounded to vs in generall councelles and by common consent of all nations Howe farre this sense whiche you woulde wrest out of Saint Augustins wordes that the church maie not be iudge of the true meaning of the scripture Contra epist fundament Manicheor cap. 5. is from the mynde of S. Augustine his wordes in an other place doe well witnes where he protesteth that he woulde not beleue the Ghospell if the auctoritye of the churche did not moue him thereto How often beside doth Lib. 2. contra Iulian. alibi he in writing against Iulian the Pelagian obiect to him the doctours of the church expounding the scriptures againste his opinion As for that whiche you bring oute of Saint Augustine against councelles it is falselye and vntrulye applyed For b. 10. Lib. contra MaximinuÌ„ 3. cap. 14. Saint Augustins yealding to the aduersaries whome he sawe frowardly bent to stande to the hereticall councell off Ariminum dothe no more proue him to be of the mynde to eneruate and weaken thereby the auctoritye of generall councelles then if I woulde saie to you disputing with you vpon the reall presence of Christe in the sacrament and knowing that you were as wholly bent to mainteine the Confession of Augspurg
is not necessarie that thinges compared should be one in all pointes They agree in this that kinges and bishoppes are bothe heades and gouernours the pointe where in the comparison was made Nowe whereas to this that I saie that the B. of Cauntorbury is heade off the bishoprike and diocesse of London as he is of all the bishoprikes within his prouince and that yeat a man can not infer vpon this that therefore the bishopp of London is not heade of that his diocesse as yow doe in saing that because Christe is heade of the whole churche therfore there is no other vnder him whereas I saie to this yow answere that youre bishoppes take it for theire chiefe honour to be and to be called gods ministres in his churche so doe oure bishoppes to M. Nowell and vsed no other titles then those whiche your false bishoppes hauing falsely vsurped vse and abuse at this daie but what is that to the matter that we entreate of Well be bolde man and blushe not coffe owt that tuffe fleaume that lieth in youre throte and saie that the archebishop is of no more power then the bishop If yow had saide thus then had yow answered yeat some thing whereas nowe yowe haue answered nothinge Except this maie stande for youre answere when yow proue it that neither Archebishop nor bishop maie be called heades of the churches fo 81. a. 6. that they gouerne but rather kinges and princes Whiche opinion because yowe see that it is contrarie to all M. Nowell laboureth to helpe his owne contradiction by a folishe shift that yow saied before touching the places of S. Cyprian and S. Hierome where yowe confessed so often that euerie bishop was heade of his owne diocesse to salue that sore yow saie Yeat I denie not but that bishoppes maie be and haue bene Nowell a. 17. though improprely named heades euen by good writers as the scholemaister of a prince in that the prince is his scholer is his heade c. Surely bishoppes are muche beholden vnto yowe that Dorman yow graunte them so muche auctoritie ouer their flocke as yow had ouer your scholers when yow were scholemaister of Westminstre But I praie you M. Nowell cal to your remēbraunce that S. Ciprian saieth of the bishop that he is in the diocesse where he ruleth the iudge in Christes stede that S. Hierom calleth him the high prieste that he must he saieth haue pearelesse auctoritie aboue all other that schismes rise by not obeing him and iudge with your selfe what a handsome comparison you haue made But admitting euen youre owne similitude you shall see how muche you haue saide for the auctoritie of bishoppes against that vnlaufull othe which you exact of all men Euē as the scholemaistre is in his schole the heade of his scholers allthough they be princes so be bishoppes the heades of suche as be in their seuerall bishoprikes all though they be princes but the scholemaister in his schoole is the supreme gouernour in all thinges and causes belonging to the schole his scholers allthough princes hauing in those thinges no power to commaunde Ergo the bishoppes are euery one in his churche the supreme gouernours in all thinges ecclesiasticall and princes haue no auctoritie to entremedle therein The which conclusion deduced M. nowell from your comparison as youre selfe with honestie can not mislike so I trust it shall displease no prince considering that as S. Ambrose saieth there can be nothing more honorable for Epist 32. ad Valent. the Emperour then to be called the sonne of the churche For a good Emperour saieth he is within the churche not aboue the churche But because this sentence is become nowe in Englande by the meanes of certeine clawbackes to be odioufe I will in defence of M. Nowell if anie perhappes woulde quarell with him for giuing to bishoppes so greate auctoritie adde out of Chrisostome of hūdreds of places that might be brought to that effect only one which is this Quanquā nobis admirandus videtur thronus regius ob gēmas affixas Homil. 5. de Esaiae verbis vidi Dominū The power of the prince and of the priest aurū quo obcinctus est tamen rerum terrenarū administrationē sortitus est nec vltra potestatem hanc preterea quicquā habet auctoritatis verum sacerdoti thronus in coelis collocatus est de coelestibus negotijs pronunciandi habet auctoritatem That is to saye Allthough the kinges throne seme to vs merueilouse for the pretiouse stones and golde wherewith it is garnished yeat hath he only the administration of earthly thinges and aboue this power he hathe no auctoritie but the priest hathe his throne in heauen and auctoritie to pronounce of heauenly affaires And thus muche by occasion of the auctoritie that you giue to bishoppes as greate ouer their diocesse as schoolemaisters haue ouer their schooles I woulde furder if it were not for troubling you haue desired you to haue named some good auctor to iustifie this saing of youres that bishoppes when they be called heades are so called improperly But I refer that to youre good discretion and to your better laisour Whether Christe nede to haue one to gouerne his churche vnder him and howe The 23. Chapitre IT IS true the Apologie and we all likewise saye that neither Nowell a. 30. b. 1. hathe Christe nede of anie suche one only heade vicair ouer all his churche which M. Dorman a little before dothe confesse him selfe neither is it Christes will to haue any suche heade vicair For though M. Dorman affirme that he so woulde yeat shall he neuer by the holie scripture wherein Christes will is declared be able to prome it Thirdly it is impossible for anie earthely man to haue and to execute anie suche office c. For the proufe of the first of these thre pointes yow Dorman bring my selfe for a witnes in my boke fo 9. b. Where I haue no such thing but onelie this that Christe had as little nede to gouerne his churche in the olde lawe by the helpe of one heade as he hath nowe I denied not then but he had nede nowe Therefore you continue youre accustomed wont of beelieng me If you aske me how he hath nede A lye 69. which is God I answere that as he neded the witnesse of men as appeareth by this There was a man sent from God Ioan. 1. whose name was Iohn to beare witnes of the light And againe Ioan. 15. Yow shall beare witnes of me because yow haue ben withe me from the beginning for the infirmities sake of men not for him selfe so for vs which can not commodiously be gouerned Howe God nedeth a heade to gouerne his churche nor well kept in orde without one heade a man as we are oureselues to whome in all controuersies we might haue recourse God hath nede of suche a heade Thus take I neede now taking it in youre
warned vs that their propertie is whē scripture is brought to them either vtterly to denie it either elles if they admit it to peruert it with false and vntrue gloses concludeth in this wise Ergo non ad Scripturas prouocandum est nec in his constituendum certamen quibus aut nulla aut incerta aut parum certa victoria est Therefore that is to saye we maye not appeale to the scriptures neither is the strife to be ordered in them by whome either there is no victorie to be gotten either vncerteine or not verie certeine Nowe that you haue done with Pighius you flee vpon Hosius as fierce as a ramping Lion of Cottes holde of whome you saie as foloweth Nowell fol. 87. a. 17. Hosius youre greate estate for learning and vertue c. in comparing the ghospell written in paper and inke with the churche which he calleth the liuely gospell as though the other shoulde be called the dende ghospell goeth as neare to Swenckfielde as foure pence doe to a grote I thinke you will not youre selfe denie if you were well Dorman apposed M. Nowell but that the lettre of the scripture compared with the sense thereof is deade From whiche phrase and maner of speache howe farre wyde are those wordes Ioan. 6. of oure Sauioure The lettre sleeth it is the Spirite that quickeneth Although yowe might if you had not made a vowe to interprete all thinges to the worst haue giuen a more gentle interpretation to these wordes off Hosius It is a true proposition that Hosius vsed that scripture is A. 27. the worde not of God but of the diuell as heretikes doe alleage it Why seing that Hosius toke it out of S. Hierome as yow confesse doe yow not refell and confute it but vsing youre auctoritie barely denie it Why reherse yowe not his M. Nowell alleageth Hosius wordes falsely wordes wholly but cutt awaie these in the middest of the sentence cui absit vt quicquam anteponendum esse putemus before the whiche scripture God forbid we shoulde thinke anie thing to be to be preferred For so hath Hosius Scriptura quomodo profertur a catholicis est verbum dei cui absit vt quicquam anteponendum esse putemus quomodo profertur ab In fine lib. 4. contra Brentium haereticis est verbum diaboli The scripture as it is brought furth by the catholikes is the worde of God before the whiche God forbid we shoulde thinke anie thing to be to be preferred as it is alleaged of the heretikes it is the worde of the diuell Yowe sawe well inough if yowe shoulde not haue cutt awaie these wordes all the grace of the comparison in this pointe had bene marred by Hosius humble and reuerent speaking of the scriptures but so were yow blinded with malice that all other yowe thought woulde haue bene as blinde as yowe and no man haue noted so foule a faulte Yow staie not here but to bring Hosius vttrely out of cōceit and to deface him with all men you charge him withe comparing the scriptures Dauids psalmes withe rymes onlye Nowell fo 88. b. 11 written by princes in oure daies with a blasphemouse derision in matching them with fabulouse poēsies Hosius compareth not the scriptures withe rymes but Dorman Hosius once againe misused by M. Nowell sed by M. Nowell with metres quibus dei laudes celebret to praise God by With suche meetres what contempte or contumelie is it I praie yow to compare the scriptures Are not Dauides Psalmes suche meetres yow haue therefore once againe delt vnhonestly with Hosius to snatche a parte of his wordes and to make youre vauntage therof leauing those that most manifestly declare his meaning He matcheth not at all the scriptures with fabulouse poesies that is an other lie of you A lye 73. res He saieth that as learned and vnlearned write poêsies euerie where so maie euerie kinge or prince or anie other write to the honour and praise of God without restreint The comparison is not betwene the scriptures and poêsies but betwene the libertie that men haue to write of the one argument or the other And thus is this greate blasphemouse blast God be thancked well ouerblowen The Iues are not suffered by the pope to vtter most horrible A lye 74. b. 27. blasphemies against Christe It is a horrible lye We haue not giuen ouer preaching of goddes worde fo 89. a. 16 Lett those countries where Catholike religion florisheth conuince yow to be a liar Where there are in most meane A lye 75. townes mo sermones in euerie of them in one daie then are commonly in London in three They be ordinarie also thorough oute the whole yeare not bought with monie as youres be We barre not the people from reading and hearing A lye 76. it To that I answered before We saie not that the holie ghoste vseth to come from aboue into oure churche without all helpe of meanes as hearing preaching or reading A lye 77. That is the fistht lie made within the compasse off these fewe wordes Thus yow see good readers I trust euidently that he comparison made by me betwene the protestantes and the Swenckefeldians is in that pointe of building vpon like groundes the one parte to abolishe scripture the other to ouerthrowe the generall heade of Christes churche in earthe like and therefore trulie made The whiche is confirmed the more for that that as I haue shewed before the aduersarie not susteining to trie the comparison by such wordes as I made it leaueth oute their reasons wherein they meete and then crieth Lo Sir yow see a greate likenesse betwene them fol. 84 a. 9. Yow see beside how to compare vs with Swenckfield he hathe wrested mangled and falsified the wordes of Pighius and Hosius and laste of all charged the whole numbre of catholikes with most euident and apparent vntruthes That Cardinall Hosius was impudently beelied and sclaundred by the Apologie of the churche of Englande that M. Nowell continuing the same addeth more matter therto The 25. Chapter ITRVST that who so euer shall reade that conformitie betwene Nowell fol. 90 a. 1. the papistes and Swenckfeldius and bothe theire heresies before declared and specially by the wordes of Pighius and Hosius him selfe shall vnderstande that Hosius was not without cause charged with some affinitie to Swenckfeldius his heresie c. Is the matter nowe come to affirnitie M. Nowell Well Dorman let it be so I nothing doubte the learned readers iudgement euen therein also Although this can not be denied but that your Apologie which yow take vpon you here to defende in the first editiō therof charged Hosius with these wordes Nos inquit ipsas scripturas quarum tot iam non diuersas modo sed etiam contrarias interpretationes adferri videmus facessere iubebimus c. VVe saieth Hosius wil bid the scriptures them selues whereof we see so many not diuerse
haue loked so farre in the 34. and 35. leafe of my firste booke Nowe to the place of Chore Dathan and Abiron of the whiche you saye Nowell B. 5. thus Concerning the reason made by Chore Dathan and Abiron that the people ought not to obeye their gouernours because they be all holye * These wordes and the lorde is emōgest them left oute by M. Nowell Dorman and that therefore the magistrates ought not to lifte them selues aboue the Lordes people it is not oure reason cet No in dede M. Nowell as you haue alleaged it it is not youre reason But if you had trulye reported it it woulde haue gone as nere to your reason as twelue pense to a shilling But you doe here as you did before with the reasons of Swenckfielde that is leaue oute the chiefe reason wherein the comparison is made and then crie oute vpon me for making suche wise comparisons Who seeth not that I compare you hereto these schismatikes refusing to obeye Moises and Aaron not because they saide they were all holy but because they added in ipsis est Dominus and the Lorde is present with the multitude as you refuse that one heade of Christes churche because Christ is present with his churche As for the wordes that you note here in the margent of youre boke multitudo sanctorum and populus domini papae as though you coulde thereby make some shewe that this place might be applyed to Chanon Chore Deane Dathan and his felowes it deserueth to be rather laughed at then answered seing that bothe it is a manifeste lye wherewith you sclaundre the cleargye who neuer called them selues the holy people of the greate Lorde of Rome as you here feine and also it is well knowen that what so euer libertyes and immunities the cleargye had the same were giuen as the faithe encreased by Emperours and kinges them selues and therefore they were moste far from the maner of reasoning vsed by these schismatikes Nowe whereas M. Dorman alleageth the Apologie as thus reasoning Nowell B. 25. that the churche hathe no neede of anie other ruler because Christ is with it truth it is if M. Dormā doe meane one only heade of the vniuersall church For Christe nedeth no suche generall gouernour seing he is bothe present him selfe continually by his spirite as he promised and also for that he hathe in euery peculier countrie and churche his Moises and Aaron that is to saye his feuerall deputies in his steede euerye where here in earth for that no one mortall man can possibly suffice to the gouernaunce of the whole worlde or churche c. If he nede gouernours of euery peculier churche where Dorman he is no lesse present then with the whole why nedeth he not aswell one chiefe heade to gouerne the whole who shall emongest so manie heades diuided into partes euerye one thinking his opinion to be best strike the stroke and preserue vnitie If yowe saie God maie so preserue euerie bishop that he fall not into heresie you put god to worke daily mo miracles then he doth to preserue the chiefe bisshop of all whiche yet you stagger to graunte as a thinge impossible The wordes folowing in youre Apologie that no one mortall man can suffice to the gouernement of the whole fo 96. a. 3. worlde or church I of my accustomed sinceritie omitted yow saye And what haue you gotten by it nowe you haue alleaged it youre selfe Verilie this that you will make all men vnderstande that god is able with you to doe no more then you list to giue him leaue but of this I haue entreated before sufficiently You saye that you are far from rebelling Nowell against youre naturall soueraigne and other gods ministers appointed to gouerne you c. But how farre M. Nowell I Dorman praie you Who made the boke of succession at home Who sounded the two traiterouse blastes against the mōstrouse regiment of women their Quene being a woman From whence were they blowen but from the lake of Gehenna Who grudgeth against the princes ordinaunce in matters indifferent and of small importance no greater then of a square cap Who made warre against their prince in Scotland Who set all Fraunce in an vprore against their king Who but that vnhappy vermine the protestants That which foloweth fol. 96. b. and 97. a. b. is answered before That the waye to ouerthrow Fol. 68. vsque ad fol. 106. heresies is not by the only scripture The 27. chapiter THIS matter hath bene sufficiently handled before in the 21. chapitre And allthough in me it be a greate faulte and highly laide to my charge to alleage thrise one place of scripture yet muste yowe good readers beare withe M. Nowell if he alleage his absurde and wicked assertions more then six times thrise and maie not in any wise twite him with the prouerbe Crambe his that to muche of one thing is naught yea allthough he neuer proue anie of them once But maie yowe not be ashamed M. Nowell so vniustly to M. Nowell repre hending other men for vnreuerent speaking of the scripture speaketh of all other most vnreuerētly him selfe charge Pighius and Hosius with vnreuerent speaking of the scripture when youre selfe in this place applie your prophane prouer be to signifie that to muche of scripture maie be nought that anie place thereof maie so often be alleaged that it shoulde become vnsauory By what auctoritie claime yow I praie yowe tell vs suche libertie that yowe maie speake of the scriptures that whiche is vnlaufull and plaine blasphemie and other maie not vse so muche as similitudes or comparisons betwene the scriptures and other prophane thinges Why is it laufull for yow so oftentimes to repeate these heathenishe wordes that it is impossible for one man assisted by gods grace for otherwise we affirme it not to gouerne the whole churche of Christe that we be like to the Phariseis and high priestes of the Iues you to Christe and his apostles that there ought no more to be one chiefe heade to gouerne the churche then one emperour to gouerne the whole worlde that the pope can not be iudge in his owne cause as though goddes cause were his owne priuate cause with suche like absurdities a nombre mo and maie not be laufull for me to alleage thrise the holie scripture of God to proue three seuerall pointes Firste that it coulde not be likely that God prouiding for his chosen The place of Deuter. alleaged by me thrise to three seuerall purposes people the Iues a chiefe and heade gouernour to ende and determine all their controuersies woulde not for his churche whiche he loueth more tendrely where he knewe shoulde be greater nede doe the like nexte to answere thereby youre foolishe reason Christe is heade of his churche and present allwaies withe it therefore there nedeth no other By which reason I saide that God shoulde haue prouided for the Iues no chiefe
heade neither because he was present also with them and no lesse their heade then oures Thirdlye to shewe that the onelye conference of scriptures is not sufficient to ende all controuersies rising vpon the doubtefull meaninge off the lettre seing that if it so had allmightie God woulde of all likelihode haue bidden the Iues doe so and not trouble themselues and the high prieste for the matter Thus yowe see good readers howe I alleage thrise thys one place off scripture whiche argueth M. Nowell saieth miserable distresse But I truste suche as be off sounder iudgement haue learned to giue that reuerence to holie scripture that what so euer they see confirmed by one onelye sentence taken out of the same that they will thinke as sufficiently proued as iff there had bene many brought therfore If a man should aske of M. Nowell what distresse he was in when to proue that there must be manie kinges to gouerne the worlde he alleageth so often alone without anie other in his whole boke that sentence of Ecclesiasticus some times twise in one leafe as Cap. 17. fol. 32. and. 62. which neither proueth his entent and is taken besides out of that boke whiche he and his companioÌ„s In the articles agreed vpoÌ„ in the CoÌ„uocation anno 15â—2 haue noted to be insufficient to establishe anie doctrine by I marueile what answere he woulde make What shoulde I here mention the councell of Africa so many times brought in What shoulde I tell you of the same textes and gloses so often rehersed to one purpose Youre selues good readers in reading this boke of his shall beare me witnes that I lye not You haue here repeated againe that the high prieste must iudge according to the lawe whiche no man denieth for so saieth the texte that he shall that S. Paule a 29. b. 28. threatened Gods vengeaunce to the high prieste that S. Peter and S. Iohn asked boldely him and his whether it were right in the sight of god to heare them rather then God to all the which you haue my answere before in answering the. 59. b. and the. 68. leaues a. You haue beside serued in the seconde time the places of S. Austen and Chrisostome to fo 99. a. b proue that conference of the textes of scripture one withe the other is a good waye to atteine to the vnderstanding of doubtefull places Thus much was saide before in the. 72. leafe b. to the which in the same place I answered as I nowe doe that it is a verie good waie in dede but not suche as is able allwaies to assure vs of the right sense Nowe iudge I beseche you good readers who vseth oftenest to repeate the same thing M. Nowell or I. Where as you saye M. Nowell And no doubte but the Iuish Nowell b 26. priest appointed to resolue other men of their doubtes did him selfe vse the saide conference of scripture c. To that I answere that this maketh nothing for youre Dorman purpose if he so did For allthough the high prieste whose lippes were promised to keepe knowledge were for the office Malach. â— sake which he susteined so directed in the conference of scripture that he neuer failed in his iudgementes yeat hereof foloweth it not that euery priuate man by suche conference shoulde be hable to doe the like The generall councelles at this daie the popes at all times haue vsed you maie be sure this waye also of interpreting doubtes arising vpon the scripture We mislike it not therefore in them to whome it apperteineth to explicate suche doubtes but in suche onelie as being priuate men vse this for a cloke to couer their heresies in them we mislike it thus far as either they content not themselues with suche sense as the whole churche hath allreadie vpon the conference of suche doubtefull places agreed vpon either elles taking that office from publike auctoritie will presume them selues to giue suche sentence proceding this waye as maye best seme to make for their singuler opinions To this reason of mine that if laing and conferring together of one texte with an other were the surest and readiest waye to come to the true vnderstanding of all doubtes God woulde of all likelihode haue commaunded it and not haue sent his people to the high priest nowe at the length M. Nowell in the ende of two leaues and a halfe in the which he hathe done no other thing but first vttred himselfe how muche this place of Deutero grieueth him then vainely repeated that the prieste is bound to iudge according to Goddes lawe that when he did not S. Paule cursed him S. Peter and S. Iohn disobeied him that conference of the scripture is good and necessary now I saye after that he hathe filled vp two leaues and a halfe with this matter denied by no man and with the which he filled as manye before he maketh a proffer to answere in this wise But saieth M. Dorman God coÌ„maunded not any suche confereÌ„ce Nowell fo 100. a. 29. b. 1. of scriptures but only to resorte to the high prieste yeat I trust M. Dorman is not ignorant what it meaneth that God and oure Sauiour Christ doe so earnestly exhorte all meÌ„ to the diligeÌ„t reading and studie of the scriptures and doe condemne the ignorance or waÌ„t of knowledge therof And where he saieth God hath not coÌ„maunded suche conference of scriptures which yeat in effecte he hath commaunded it is happy that he can not shewe where God hath forbidden it which if he coulde he woulde not haue failed to haue done You tell men what I saide whiche they knewe before Dorman but your answere to my saing whiche here they loked to haue had you giue them not I saye that if conference of one place of the scripture withe an other had bene the surest waye to resolue all doubtes God woulde rather haue commaunded that then going to the prieste you answere that God and Christe exhorte vs to the diligent studie of scripture that * The coÌ„ference here meÌ„t is suche as must serue for the finall resolution of all doubtes suche conference he hathe commaunded in effect without shewing when where or by what wordes notwithstanding that herein consisteth the answere to my obiection that it is happy that I can not shewe where it is forbidden whereas euen in the very place that I bring here when I shewe that almighty God commaunded the ordinarie waye of resoluing doubtes to be the sentence of the highe prieste I shewe withall that he forbadde also conference of scripture in such wise as we here take conference that is to be the finall and laste resolution of determining doubtefull controuersies arising vppon the lettre Excepte any man you thincke maye be so desperate hardye as when God hathe appointed one waye to choose anye other as not forbidden That whiche foloweth But seing c. is one of youre extraordinarye walckes and perteineth not to my obiection but yeat
vnlearned you vse termes like youre selfe against this chaire of S. Petre minding as I take it to persuade that I shoulde drawe S. Hieromes wordes to suche a meaning as that he shoulde meane that Christes churche were builded vpon a materiall chaire You maye be ashamed M. Nowel where you lacke iust matter to blotte paper and waste incke with suche cauilling triffles as euerie man that hath common sense wil as sone as they haue passed once youre mouthe be hable to discouer and reproue Dothe not S. Hierome in this place make twise expresse mention of Petres chaire Why triumphe you not ouer him as you crowe against me with youre foolishe and vnsauory Rhetorike and saie that he was well occupied to write from Siria to Rome for councell from a rotten chaire that he was a wise man to ioyne him selfe in communion theretoe Who seeth not that yow woulde haue taken the matter as whotly with S. Hierome as you doe with me hauing as good cause alltogether sauing that yow feared the burning of youre lippes I saie therefore M. Nowell that VVhat S. Hierome ment by Peters chayre S. Hierome to answere you in this pointe if you were so verie a dolt that you vnderstode it not before by building the churche vpon Petres chaire meaneth euen as he did in those two places before where you can not denie but that he maketh expresse mention of that chaire Sainte Hierome meaneth there no materiall chaire and therefore no rotten chaire as you like a rotten membre and deuided from the churche blasphemously saie He meaneth as Matt◠23 Christe doeth in the ghospell speaking of Moises chaire as the fathers Cipriā Epiphanius Austen Ambrose Optatus and the rest doe as often as they vse this worde that is to saie by the chayre the power and bishoplike auctoritie which Petre hauing giuē to him cōmitted to his successours For euē as a riuer though it runne manie thousandes of miles leeseth not yeat but reteineth neuerthelesse the name of the founteine and heade spring from whence it came so fareth it in the succession of bishoppes that how many so euer there be that succede yeat they are all saide to possesse the chaire of him that ruled firste yea allthough euerie of them had made for him selfe a newe chaire For the matter consisteth not as I saide before in materiall chaires no more then doth the opening or shutting of heauen gates depende vpon materiall keyes And as well might you like a Lucianist or a Porphirian haue scoffed at Christe for saing that the scribes and Phariseis sate vpon Moises chaire which if they had had emōgest them if euer Moises sate in anie should at that time haue bene as rotten as is S. Petres nowe there being betwene Moises and S. Petre not manie fewer yeares then are nowe betwene S. Petre and oure time or for making keyes for heauen as yow doe against me But to let this passe and to exaggerate no furder that for the which at the handes of suche as be of the learneder and wiser sorte you are like to susteine punishment enough by incurring the note of this infamie to be no learned reasoner but a railing wrangler I will nowe as compendiously as maie be iustifie the inserting of this Parenthesis Peters chaire First these wordes vpon this rocke I knowe the churche to be builded ought to be referred rather as youre selfe before confessed and in this case if in anie you ought to be beleued for you haue bene a scholemaister and practised better in the gramer rules then in the scriptures and fathers writinges to the wordes that go nearest before but the wordes Peters chaire are placed nearest before Therefore by youre owne confession the building of the churche ought to be referred thither Againe S. Hierome in this place it is to be presumed alluded in these wordes I knowe the churche to be buylded on that rocke to the wordes of the ghospell Tues petrus super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam Thow Matt. 16. arte Petre and vpon this rocke wil I builde my church But in that place Christe appointed an other fundation of the church beside him selfe to wit Peter It foloweth therefore that S. Hierome in this place ment not of Christ but of Peters chaire that is Peters auctoritie or Peter him selfe Thirdly it is more then probable that sainte Hierome mēt not in this place of building the churche vpon Christe only but vpon Petre also nexte after Christe because to him that with iudgement wil reade the epistle considre duly the circunstances especially the beginning it shal appeare that his whole talcke is so framed that whereas of purpose and directly he maketh mention of consulting Peters chaire off ioyning him selfe to Peters chaire and in that whole discourse of his setteth furthe the praises of the churche off Rome he speaketh of Christe but incidently and as it were by the waie of a parenthesis and that toe to auaunce the dignitye of the See of Rome as before the which he woulde preferre he saide none but Christe The whiche being so what sounde iudgement will not rather refer these wordes aboute whiche the controuersie is to that whiche is principally and directly handled rather then to that which is mentioned but incidently and indirectly Last of all it is to be iudged that S. Hierome agreeth here with his owne writinges in other places Nowe is this euident that euen the thirde epistle before thys he saieth in plaine wordes that the churche was builded vppon Petre. His wordes are Apostolus Petrus super quem Dominus fundauit ecclesiam Tom. 2. epist ad Marcellā Petre the Apostle vpon whom our lorde founded his churche Thus you see good Readers I trust howe falselye and withoute all cause M. Nowell hathe quarelled with me for this parenthesis added only to make more plaine the wordes of Saint Hierome It foloweth that I showe to you howe he prosecuteth his purposed malice by the auctorities of Erasmus and S. Augustine in the 108. 109. and 110. leaues Erasmus saieth M. Nowell cleane contrarye to all papistes Nowell fol. 108. a. 18. saieth in his notes vpon these wordes Super illam petram c. Non super Romam vt arbitror c. That is to saie Vpon that rocke not vpon Rome I trowe c. From Erasmus thus farre we dissent not that we knowe Dorman as well as he that the church was not built vpō Rome For if Rome were sacked as God forbid to morowe nexte the church should continue neuerthelesse although the bishop went from thence and shoulde sit at the meanest towne in all Italye or elles where As for that that he woulde haue the churche to be builded by S. Hieromes meaning vppon Peters faithe that first he affirmeth not confidently but saieth he troweth so next it maye be saide that in this place Erasmus telleth his owne opinion in the other place off this epistle vpon these wordes Extra hanc domum without this
house he confesseth the minde of S. Hierome whiche he saieth was vtterly that all churches ought to be vndre the Romaine See or no strangers from it If Erasmus in his interpretation before saing that the churche was not as he thought builded vpon Rome but vpon the faith of Petre agree with S. Hierome in this pointe that all churches be subiect to the Romaine See howe happeneth it that you and youre fellowes to withdrawe all men from this subiection to that See make that principle that the churche was builded not vpon Rome but vpon Petres his faithe youre chiefe grounde seing that in Erasmus iudgement bothe might stande well inoughe together Iff on the contrarye parte this interpretation made by Erasmus can not agree with the minde of Saint Hierome Why shoulde we rather credite Erasmus not sure off his owne opinion then S. Hierome confidently affirming the contrarye Yea and furder the same Erasmus in the beginning of his argument Nowell fol. 108. b. 1. vpon his treatye against the Luciferians whiche is nexte to his two epistles to Damasus hathe these wordes Nulla haeresis grauius afflixit c. No heresie hathe more grieuously afflicted the churches of all the worlde then the Arrians in so muche that it hathe wrapped in the bishoppes of Rome and the emperours them selues It pleaseth M. Dorman sometime to alleage Erasmus against vs whose auctoritye if it be good downe goeth the pope and all popery For if the bishoppes of Rome haue bene infected with heresie then is not there that vniuersall rocke As good men as Erasmus and better to haue susteined Dorman the contrary that there was neuer bishoppe of Rome heretike But if there had it foloweth not thereof that there is not that vniuersall rocke Let that be the answere till I come to youre question What if the Pope be an heretike Nowe if M. Dorman did not see these notes of Erasmus vpon Nowell b. 16. the place by him alleaged out of S. Hierome I praise his diligence he maye of Dorman be called Dormitantius as S. Hierome whome he falsely alleageth called Vigilantius and more iustlye bothe by nature and sounde of name may M. Dorman be so called then euer was Vigilantius by S. Hierome c. I sawe them and vnderstode them it appeareth better Dorman then you Reade S. Hierome contra Vigilantium ad Exuperium and then see who is likely by S. Hieromes minde to be called Dormitantius you who with that drowsy sleeping heretike raile against the tapers and lightes in the churche the worshipping of sainctes the reuerent keping of their blessed relikes or I who with saint Hierome mainteine the contrary But I thinke euen for that cause a little thinge woulde make yow to call S. Hierome Dormitantius to for it appeareth that it pleased yow neuer a deale that he shoulde so roughly handle youre deare frinde and therefore yow prefer youre allusion to my name before that of his to the name of Vigilantius But I woulde counsell yow M. No-well either to gette yow some new trym name such as is Theodore Basile or some suche like or elles to leaue scoffing at other till this that yow haue conteining nothing well in it maie be mended Because yowe perceiued that Erasmus either made little for youre purpose or that his auctoritie woulde not be muche set by yow saie But if Erasmus iudgement be nothing worthe c. I will yeat in Christes quarell that he is the rocke and not Petres rotten Nowell B. 26. chaire bring furthe one witnes not onelie greater then Erasmus but also equall with S. Hierome and aboue all papistes in credite and auctoritie S. Austen in his 13. sermon vpon the ghospell off Mathew Yow fight with your owne shadowe M. Nowell when Dorman Fol. 109. ◠1. yow imagine to encountre with anie matche that shoulde offre Christe wrong No man denieth to Christe that excellencie to be the rocke of his churche yow maie therfore put vp youre dagger the fraie was donne before it begonne But yeat hereof it foloweth not that therefore Petres chaire that is to saie Peter is not also a fundation in Christe the first and greatest fundation as a little before I showed To the auctoritie of S. Austen I answere that euen as youre other witnesse that yowe brought before Erasmus durst in this case affirme nothing boldely but only shewed his minde doubtefully so is S. Austen in this question as it Lib. 1. Retractat cap. 21. appeareth in his worckes not fully resolued For in his first booke of Retractations where yow saie most impudently that he repeateth and mainteineth moste earnestlie this interpretation An impudent lye made vpō 12. S. Austen B. 18. that Christe and not Petre is the rocke he proposing bothe the interpretations that Peter is the rocke as he confessed that the same sense he had bothe him selfe giuen in writing against Donatus and was song in his time by the mouthe of manye in the verses of S. Ambrose where speaking of the cocke he saieth Hoc ipsa petra ecclesiae canente culpam diluit at the singing of this cocke the rocke of the churche him selfe purged his faulte he proposing I saie this sense and also that other that Christ is that rocke concludeth in this wise Harum autem duarum sententiarum quae sit probabilior eligat lector Of these two opinions let the reader chose that whiche he thinketh moste probable Is this M. Nowell to defende moste earnestly that Christe and not Petre is the rocke to sett men at libertie to beleue in this pointe as they list Is this the candor the sincere and vpright dealing that yowe speake so muche of But if yowe will yeat by no meanes graunte that S. Austen doubted of this pointe if he were resolued on anie parte I will proue by alleaging diuerse places against this one of youres that he thought as we doe and not with yow First in a sermon that he made of Petres chaire he hathe these wordes Petrū itaque fundamentū ecclesiae dominus nominauit August Serm. de cathedra S. Petri ideo digné fundamentū hoc ecclesia colit supra quod ecclesiastici aedificij altitudo cōsurgit That is to saie Our Lord therfore named Petre the fundation of the church and for that cause dothe the churche worthily worship this fundation vpon the whiche the heigth of the ecclesiasticall building riseth Againe in an other place speaking of the firste miracle Sermon de Sanct. 26. that S. Petre did in restoring to a lame man the vse of his feete he writeth thus Audistis frequenter ipsum Petrum a Act. 3. domino petram nuncupatum sicut ait Tu es Petrus super Matth. 16. hanc petram oedificabo ecclesiam meam Si ergo Petrus petra est supra quam aedificatur ecclesia recté prius pedes sanat vt sicut in ecclesia fidei fundamentum continet ita in homine membrorum
of Rome as Erasmus hathe noted yet he knowing or some man warning him that the house withoute the whiche the paschall lambe maye not be eaten the arke c. by all doctours is interprete to be the one vniuersall church of Christe and by none to be the churche of Rome therefore like a wise man or elles a false fox he let that folowing alone also as he cut of Christe the heade going and ioyned nexte before and so he hathe tolde you a tale bothe withoute heade and tayle thereby to proue the pope who is Antichrist to be the heade of Christes churche Is not this M. Nowell more then intollerable impudencie Dorman to charge me with fraude for the leauing out of that sentence then which there is none either in the workes of S. Hierome him selfe or anie of the other learned doctours that more maketh for the dignitye of the see of Rome for the omitting whereof in my boke I deserued rather to be noted at the catholikes handes of ouermuche simplicitye then at youres of fraude and sutteltye But howe truly here let the place itselfe iudge Omitting Erasmus whose iudgement nowe you condemne which yeat in me might haue bene counted some pointe of leuitie if I had euer praised him as you did before to be no vnskillfull or negligent viewer of the olde fathers writinges I will come to the place it selfe whiche I doubte not but by construing for I truste although you care not muche for the rules of the churche you owe yeat for olde acquaintaunce youre reuerence to the rules of Grammer to make bothe you and other men to vnderstād also how much this place maketh for me and howe little cause I had to suppresse it and howe muche yet lesse you had to make anye mention of it Saint Hieromes wordes therefore concerning this matter are these Ego nullum primum nisi Christum sequens beatit udini tuae id est cathedrae Petri communione consocior Super illam petram aedificatam ecclesiam scio Quicunque extra hanc domum agnum comederit prophanus est Nowe let vs construe M. Nowell Ego I sequens folowing nullum primum none first nisi Christum but Christ cōsocior am ioyned communione in communion beatitudini tuae to thy holynesse id est that is to saie cathedrae Petri to the chaire of Petre. Super illā petrā vpō that rocke what rocke M. Nowel but the same chaire of Peter to the whiche he professed him selfe to be ioyned in communion going nexte before these wordes scio I knowe ecclesiam the churche aedificatam to be builded Quicunque who so euer comederit shall eate agnum the lambe extra hanc domú out of this house prophanus est is prophane Now these wordes being truly by me thus construed euerye man learned and vnlearned maye see that S. Hierome by the house whiche he here mentioneth ment Christes vniuersall churche but builded Super illam petram vpon that rocke whiche rocke in the wordes nexte before he called Petres chaire to saie Petres auctoritie If you can construe them otherwise and make them to haue any other relation then this and proue it by the rulers of Gramer you maye vaunt that you haue showed vs a scholemasters tricke that neuer was harde of yeat But I am halfe in dispare that you shall euer be able seing that youre frinde Erasmus as good a Grammarian as you and as euill in a maner affected to the See of Rome as appeareth in diuerse places by his notes and censures coulde finde no suche shifte and therefore was faine as you muste at the length to confesse the truthe that S. Hierome was of the minde that all churches shoulde be subiecte to the churche of Rome or at the least no strangers from it Nowe whereas you saye that this house that S. Hierome mentioneth is of none interprete to be the churche of Rome what were that to oure purpose if it were so seing it is interprete of the vniuersall churche whiche is of all the auncient fathers acknowledged to be builded vpon Peters chaire as S. Hierome saieth here and as hathe bene declared before S. Cyprian who calleth the churche of Rome for that cause catholicae fidei Lib. 4. epist 8. radicem matricem the rocke and mother churche of the catholike churche Yeat lacke there not also fathers that in a sense that is as in the churche of Rome all other churches are conteined call it also by the name of the catholike churche As in effect S. Ambrose did when he called Damasus the pope ruler of the whole church which he coulde by no meanes be but as he was bishop of Rome Thus In commēt in cap. 3. 1. Tim. muche maie serue for my purgation that I haue not delt fraudulently in leauing out this parte of S. Hieromes sentence Nowe let vs procede Yow make much adoe about Vitalis and Meletius and saie that I saie vntrulie that S. Hierome saieth he knoweth not Nowell fo 111. a. 1. them because they were aduersaries to the seate of Rome the cause being because they were aduersaries to the true doctrine of the moste blessed Trinitie whiche Damasus did defende I reporte me to the learned whether I had cause to saie Dorman so or no not because of these wordes who so euer gathereth not with the scattreth alone which might perhappes be trulie spoken to anie other catholike bishop but because of the circumstances that go before ioyned to these as the consulting of Petres chaire the ioyning of him selfe thereto in communion To the whiche because they did not ioyne them selues as he did he refused them If yow had spoken no more vntrulie then I yowe woulde not to colour the matter the better haue imagined that emongest other causes why S. Hierome kepte not these schismatikes companie one was because they were foriners and not his owne bishoppes an other for that they were of a strange language Ah M. Nowell did yow nodde here that yowe coulde not see that S. Hierome affirmeth that the folowed the Aegiptian confessors the bishop of Romes felowe bishoppes Were not they as muche foriners to him as were Vitalis and Meletius was not their language as strange Yeat yow vpon this desire the reader to note that S. Hierome woulde B. 25. not knowe Vitalis and Meletius because they were foriners not his owne bishoppes c. And so make a comparison betwene youre refusall of the pope and S. Hieromes refusall of these schismatikes laing for a grounde without anye proufe that the pope is a foriner and hathe nothing to doe withe yow Of the place of S. Austen taken out of the 110. question of his questions vpon the olde and newe testament The 29. chapiter HERE M. Nowell vpon the censure of Erasmus of this worcke of S. Austens maketh this shorte but sharpe conclusion against me So that it were to muche impudency for Nowell fo 112. a. 30. Dorman anie man but only M.
there is no nede to write or saye anye thinge because I haue no ennemie at all And therefore he addeth For M. Dorman can not be ignorant that we in all oure Sermones Nowell fol. 123. a. 25. and writinges of suche matters doe make a moste cleere and euident difference betwene the functions and offices of princes ciuile magistrates and priestes ecclesiasticall ministres and neither did we euer teache that princes ought neither did they euer desire to execute the offices ecclesiasticall off ministring the Sacramentes preaching excommunicating absoluing and suche like I am not ignorant in deede of this qualification of youres Dorman inuented the rather to intice some seely soules to the taking of youre othe Whome in deede I maye well call seely that will therby any thing the soner be moued For youreselfe are not ignoraunt I trowe M. Nowell that the causes why we stande with you in this matter are not onelye for ministring the Sacramentes for preaching excommunicating absoluing but as I tolde yow and you here guilefully conceale this power extendeth farder to the giuing and making of lawes for the churche to auctoritie to iudge of doctrine wherewith the meÌ„bres must be fedde whether it be souÌ„de or otherwise for these be offices that beloÌ„g to the heade not to the membres excepte you will saie that the sheepe ought to iudge what meate is conuenient for them not the shepherde Againe to appease schismes is the office not of inferiour meÌ„bres but of the heade it selfe and yeat belongeth as youre selfe haue graunted to the chiefe prelaces of euery prouince Finally to be heade of the churche is to haue the gouernement of so manye soules as be in that churche whiche because no laye man c. can haue in Note this reason particuler bishoprickes it foloweth that none can haue ouer the whole churches of a realme vnited Of the whiche matter Chrisostome saieth At quum de ecclesiae praefectura Lib. 2. de Sacerdotio de credenda huit vel illi tam multarum animarum cura agitur vniuersa quidem muliebris natura functionis istius moli ac magnitudini coedat oportet itemque bona viroruÌ„ pars But when the question is of the gouernement of the churche of the committing to this man or that the charge of so many soules then must all the kinde of women giue place to the burden and greatenes of this office yea and a greate parte of men also You bring the examples of king Dauid Salomon c. who you saye had auctoritie in gouerning of the cleargie and churche matters though they might not execute all ecclesiasticall functions and offices This matter is answered in my first booke fol. 31. sequ Thither I referre the Reader What though oure moste graciouse souereigne ladye being a Nowell woman haue not so greate skill in feates of warre as haue her capitaines haue not so good knowledge in the lawes of her realme as her Iustices and other learned men in the lawes haue thoughe she haue in al good learning and in the scriptures toe more knowledge then had anie of youre popes these seuen hundred yeares I beleue and therfore no lette in that pointe but she maie be heade of the whole churche aswell and rather then the pope What if she fitte not in publike iudgement nor determine controuersies as doe her Iustices c. what I saie if she can not execute all ciuile offices in her owne persone woulde yow therfore take from her her ciuile principalitie c Surely yow maie with as good reason doe it as yow would take awaie her superioritie ouer her cleargie from her for that she can not maie not nor will not execute ecclesiasticall functions Your comparison is false M. Nowell For there is no lawe Dorman neither of goddes nor mannes that forbiddeth a Quene although a woman to sitte in iudgemeÌ„t or to be present with her armye in battaile as Delbora did both So that the not Iudic. cap. 5. doing herof procedeth not of lacke of habilitie or power as contrarywise it doth that the prince meddleth not with ecclesiasticall matters whose condition in that that he is a laie man maketh him vnhable for that function Wheras M. Nowell noteth the Quenes maiestie to haue more knowledge in all good learning and in the scriptures toe then had anye pope these seuen hundred yeares as I am not he that would abase those her maiesties rare giftes of excellent learning and princely qualities farre more plentifully by the goodnesse of God bestowed vpon her then anie other so noble prince man or woman that this daie liueth but as my bounden dutie is rendre moste humble thanckes to almighty God therefore so can I in no wise but abhorre this moste impudent parasite good Reader who vpon his beelefe as though he had made neuer a lye in all this booke before A lye 82. addeth this of all other the moste shamefull Whiche I nothing doubte but her graces moste rare modestie can so euill abide to here that longe ere this she hathe iudged him in her princely harte to be as he is a vaine lyer and shamelesse parasite Whome if her grace shoulde commaunde to An Emperours rewarde for a flatterer be rewarded for his labour as Sigismunde the emperour rewarded one of the same profession whome praising him aboue measure he buffeted as fast answering him when he asked why beatest thow me Emperour why bitest thow me flatterer as the rewarde were princely for suche a gift so were the facte worthy so mightie a prince But nowe AEneas Siluius li. 2. Com. de reb gest Alphonsi to the good Reader what cause haste thowe to trust hereafter this mans beliefe in anie matter touching the pope the learning considered of Innocentius the thirde Aeneas Siluius called Pius the 2. Adrianus 6. Marcelâ—us 2. Paulus 4. and Pius 4. that nowe is and diuerse other within that compasse as to the Learned is not vnknowen This parasite staieth not here but going farder sayeth Though the Quenes maiestie haue not that vnderstanding of Nowell fol. 124. a. 1. all the affaires of her realme that experience in all thinges that actiuitie in executing them that hathe the whole bodye of her moste honorable councel yeat dothe the whole bodye of her councell though moste honorable humbly acknowledge her to be their heade only proude priestes because some thinges are incideÌ„t to their office which the prince maye not * VVhat if the prince listed nor list not to doe refuse their Souereigne to be their supreme gouernour You beely all priestes M. Nowell and maye be ashamed to make the bishoppes only councellors in religion whom Dorman before you confessed by S. Cyprians minde to be iudges in earthe in Christes steede whereas you would here make them no iudges or iudges in the princes steede You deale vntruly to sclaundre the cleargie as you doe In whose defence I wil saye as S. Ambrose