which but seems so unto deluded mindes but Conscience on the infallible Word of God in which can be no falshood Shew us now if you be true men that this is indeed your Conscience and we will go along with you But excuse us if we subscribe not unto such dull and stupid opinions for which you cannot shew that Christs Ministers were ever in your sense made manifest But you would have Magistrates punish and restrain the evil We wish it so but doubt that you would wince when you were under the lash for Sacriledge and your Opinion could not save your You say Would not this ease the Magistrate and be more acceptable to God To so impious and vain a question it is enough to answer No. Who say you made him a Judge c He or they who made him a Magistrate and a restrainer of the evil Pag. 20. A third sort you say plead for Decrees c. I am loath to be expensive of precious time in examination of that which others plead and I content me to say concerning the rubbish which you here scrape together That those things have been sufficiently answered by the learned and most industrious Dr. Tilsley Animad on Hist. of Tythes to whom I refer the Reader who desireth further to be satisfied concerning those things And then you say about that time it came to be received and believed that tythes ought to be paid c. I cannot but think you dissemble your knowledge who say That it was about a thousand years after Christ before it came to be received and believed that tythes ought to be paid Origen Cyprian Jerom Ambrose Augustine c. believed them to be due and payable or else they would not have pleaded so earnestly for them and you know that these lived some hundred of years before the time which you mention Consider what your self have confessed and for shame contradict not that You say That in England as well as other Nations every man might have given his tythes where he pleased till about the year One thousand two hundred If that were true I could not but think it great pitty that they were so long ignorant But must we still be troubled with your Crambe and often repetitions of one and the same falshood surely it is already nauseous to the understanding Reader Page 21. Pleaded for Humane right To this and many things else gathered out of Mr. Seldens History of Tythes I answer again That it skills not much what others plead God gave Ministers the jus and right of Tythes from that time that he had a Church I say Jus in re a right in Tythes though Humane Laws may be said to give them Jus ad rem that is a Law and Custom of Court to claim and recover them as their right To this if Kings and Parliaments have contributed their power and authority by Laws and Decrees they did justly and religiously therein For therefore God put the power into their hands well knowing how malicious Satan is against Ministers of the Gospel and how in his ambition to bring men to his Kingdom of Darkness and Atheism the subtil Impostor works as you do on the worldly minder of Neuters in Religion who wouldly gladly be of the cheapest one that they might spare their purses and the newest that they might be in the fashion Now for Statutes of Kings and Parliaments suppose they have power concerning mutual Humane rights i. e. Meum and tuum God onely hath right in his reserves Suum cuique is the Rule of Justice and Christ said Give to Caesar that which is Caesars to every one that which is his onely let Gods Portion be sacred and inviolable We look therefore on Statutes as effects of Gods mercy towards his Church making Kings and high Powers her Nursing-fathers and yet we say that we ground not our Claim and Interest therein God hereby used a Coercive power to restrain the Sacriledgious because of the hardness of their hearts who regard not Gods Laws but fear Mans. The Law you say doth not give any man a property But sure the Law of God doth of and by which we hold from whence we claim our portion And we further say That if no Humane Law Act or Decree had been made for us on this behalf yet had we a firm right to that which God assigned us by his Will revealed in his Word Yet we thankfully acknowledge that we ow very much to the Laws and Grants of good Princes Magistrates Councils and Judges for our actual recovery of our dues without which it may too easily appear by you and your party how little comfort and support mens consciences would afford Ministers notwithstanding your pretended sufficient maintenance for them whose Judges you would appoint your selves Was not Ticonius your Tutor August Ep. Vincent Cic. Acad. q l. 4. or one of that Sect who said Quod volumus sanctum est or some Protagoras affirming Id cuique verum esse quod cuique videatur You say He that saith they are onely due by Humane Right Pag. 22. c. We know not any of ours who say so We say they are due by the Law of God and Man and recoverable by Humane Laws to God subordinate As Stante Repub. Israeliticâ peculiar Rights and Interests by the Moral Law due and claimable were justly recovered by the Judicial which God appointed as a subsidium thereto and Band of Obedience the execution whereof was by men appointed to judge so now For Magistrates are still to execute justice according to those Laws which by Statute or Statutes are made Judicial to us And if our Magistrates may justly judge for me I may as justly claim and recover my right by the same Law and Equity Adde hereto That Councils may and ought to make Laws to binde the people to obey Gods Moral Law and by just punishments appoint restraints of transgressors thereof that it may be well with them and their children For Salus populi suprema Lex This may appear if we consider either first or second Table As in case of prophanation and common swearing or prophanation of the Sabbath or against Murder Adultery Theft we have wholsome and necessary Laws Now if for the obedience to God Humane Laws be good and necessary in respect of one Moral duty why not in others As if for the maintenance of Gods worship in the quotâ parte of time by God reserved and thereto still necessary Why is it not as just and necessary in the quotâ parte of our substance by the same Law of God reserved to and necessary for the same To the matters in your following Cavils concerning Civil Rights Ministers Proprieties and Courts wherein they have been or ought to be recovered you vainly trouble your Reader our claim being from Divine Law whereto all Laws and Courts ought to be subordinate Pag. 22. You say further That the Act for Tythes gives nothing but
Again in the writing of the history of the Creation Moses mentioneth not the Creation of Angels What will you say that Angels were not created because in Moses writings we read not of their Creation Nay but Moses saith Gen. 2.1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished and all the host of them You may say and that truly in that general word all are comprehended the particulars though not nominalitèr and expresly named for indeed omne or totum est extra quod nihil est and why I demand where the Apostle saith Gal. 6.6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things that is in all his goods for he would not teach any to offer è rapina holocaustum to rob others to pay his teacher and why may not the Apostles all comprehend the unspecified particulars Tythes and Offerings as well as Moses all comprehendeth unspecified Angels By this it appears how feeble your main argument is to prove no use or practise of payment of Tythes because we read them not commanded or paid in express words in the New Testament and seldome in ancient councels of the first age of the Church yet ye will not deny Tythes expresly specified and paid Heb. 7. Abraham paid Tythes or gave a tenth of all to Melchisedech pag. 5. Of Ambrose you say But his authority he produceth wholly from Moses writings And would you desire better authority then Moses writings which Christ the Lord of the Prophets citeth See whither blind zeal precipitates men But you say They imposed their own opinion with so heavy Penalties How were they their own opinions if from the Law given to the Israelites they take as you confess their whole Doctrine 2 Pet. 1.19 St. Peter would teach you better That no prophesie of the Scripture is of any private interpretation But h ly men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost And what say these men of God as to this matter more or less then God spake by the Prophets Moses and Malachi Ye are cursed with a Curse Deut. 33.11 Mal. 3. ye have robbed me in Tythes and Offerings pag. 6. You say Tythes Easter Pentecost Now for another sigary Our question is concerning Tythes What are Easter and Pentecost to that Will he not bring the Poles Artick and an-Arcick together if he please But you say It was not a general received Doctrine that Tythes ought to be paid Nor as it seems by you is it now it sufficeth us that the devouter sort as your self confess gave Tenths or greater parts of their annual encrease And who knowes not that the better part of the people is very seldome the greater You say Fathers Popes Bishops Praesto pretty Legerdemain you shuffle in Popes hoping as it seems in that company to render Fathers and Bishops odious to the vulgar but if we consider the original of that name Papa was once a name of honour and reverence importing only Patrem Patriae a father of the Country and so was it long used in the better part as Cypriano Papae Cyprian l 2. ep 7. 16. l. 3. ep 11 12. so ad Cornelium Papam This use of that name continued until after the time of Gregory the last of the good Roman Bishops and the first of the bad When Boniface 3. obtained of the Emperor Phocas that the Church of Rome should be called Caput omnium Ecclesiarum which his predecessor Gregory gave for the mark of Antichrist or his fore-runner then was his Seat quickly exalted to Supremacie not only above all Bishops of the Western Churches but also to a claim of Superiority over Kings Princes and People hence the name Papa Pope began to fall into an odium with all those who received not the marke of the beast Rev. 13. But if Popes did in any thing declare or determine Truth and Equity would you eo nomine reject it Remember that the Pharisees Scribes sitting in Moses Chair though bitter enemies to the Person and Doctrine of Christ were to be heard Yea If the devil confess Christ to be the Son of the most high would you reject it as devilish Nay but consider that though the Devil spake it it is the truth of God which when Satan uttereth he speaks not his own God hath so over-ruled some wicked men as to make them instrumental to that eminent good which he who can do nothing but good fore-ordained to do by them See it in the example of Judas the high Priests Herod and Pontius Pilat Act. 4.27 28. You say None of the first 8 general Councils of the Church did so much as mention the name of Tythes While none contradicted there was no cause why they should speak of them yet were the issue and determination of your controversie put upon antiquity we could say enough thereof We can prove that Tythes are more ancient then the law of Moses who shews that Abraham paid them and you cannot shew them taken away by any law of God why general Councels did not make Canons for them Agobardus cited by Mr. Sâ—lden some give this reason Nulla enim compulit necessitas fervente ubique religiosa devotione c. indeed the actual payment of Tythes was not exacted in the infancy of the Church of Christ but respited until the greater interests of Faith and Obedience to the Gospel were setled in a Church constituted yet Paul sheweth that there was much due unto him in respect of his Ministry 1 Cor. 9. but concluded that he had not used that liberty but as the time and present condition of the Gospel required suffered all things that he might not hinder the propagation thereof and that he might stop the mouths of backbiters Add hereto that there appeared more probability that men of the world and Pagans would more readily entertain the truth which cost them nothing and when the Ministers could not be suspected to preach for gain honor or any selfishness but only for their auditors Salvation That which you say That Tythes were never so much as named in the first 8 general Councels makes nothing against their right yet you may know that though we avow not the Canons attributed to the Apostles to be indeed the children of those fathers yet that the first of them are very ancient and neer the Apostles times it may appear in that Dionysius exiguus who lived within 400 years of the Apostles translated them out of the Greek and received long before in the Eastern Church Sr. Henry Spelmans large work of Tythes c. 20. of which City you may see Plin. lib. 3. c. 1. Stra. lib. 3. c. Bin. To. 4. See thereof the fifth Canon likewise the Council Agrippinense is cited Anno 356. Decreeing that Tythes should be called Dei census Gods rent The Concilium Hispalense or Spalense as Garsias citeth it held about the time of Gregory 1. about the year 603. in a
fragment thereof saith Omnes primitias decimas tam de pecoribus quam de frugibus dives simul pauper Ecclesiis suis rectè offerant The same citeth Mal. 3. and thereon saith Sicut enim Dominus omnia dedit ita de omnibus decimam exigit ut de fructibus agri c. siquis autem haec omnia non decimaverit praedo Dei est fur latro maledicta quae intulit Dominus Cain congeruntur That is all the first fruites and Tythes both of Cattle and Fruits let both rich and poor duly offer or set out to their Churches for as the Lord gave all so of all he requireth the tenth as of the fruits of the field c. If any man will not pay Tythes of all these he is a Thief and robber of God and the curses which the Lord brought on Cain are heaped upon that man The second Councel of Matiscon Carranz Sum. Concil Anno 588. by some accounted a general Councel because therein all the Metropolitan Bishops met saith Canon 5. Leges namque divinae consulentes Sacerdotibus ac Ministris Ecclesiarum pro haereditaria portione omni populo praeceperunt decimas fructuum suorum locis sacris prestare quas leges Christianorum congeries longis temporibus custodivit intemeratas unde statuimus ut decimas Ecclesiasticas omnis populus inferat That is Divine Laws providing for Priests and Ministers of Churches have commanded all the people for an hereditarie portion to bring the Tythes of their fruits to the holy places which laws multitudes of Christians have kept inviolable a long time Therefore we decree that all the people shall bring in their Ecclesiastical tenths Concil Turonense held in the time of Charls the great An. 813. saith Nonas ac decimas qui res Ecclesiasticas tenent solvere rectoribus Ecclesiarum ordinati sunt It were easie to add hereto many more Testimonies of ancient Councels but because others have sufficiently travelled herein I shall refer the Reader who is desirous to be further satisfied to the large work of the learned Sir H. Spelman c. 20. Dr. Tilsley Animad on hist of Tythes Preface and Catalogue only let me have leave to inform them who know not what is the difference between a general and a provinciall Councel In a general Council omnes provinciarum Episcopi conveniebant yet the forecited Councel of Matiscon ordained Ut quolibet triennio universalis Synodus celebraretur which would not be intended concerning a General Councel in the first acceptation except that Matiscon Councel may be allowed for a general one as some account it for a Provincial could not prescribe a General one though the General might prescribe the Provincial The Provincial thus differed from the General in numbers of voices and suffrages as in that it was of inferiour authority to the General But concerning this matter I shall content me to observe That 1. No humane Constitutions can any more give credit to precepts divine on which all must ground then many Torches can give light to the Sun which can be discerned by none but its own light nor can all testimonies or decrees of men impair the truth of God 2. Testimonies of men are not to be valued by number but weight nor weighed by any but the standard of the Sanctuary the word of God and so far forth to be received as they hold weight therewith that is divine truth 3. Christ promised his presence where two or three should be gathered together in his name whose truth is not limited unto or by multitudes in Councels As the little Mole-hill may as truly have the Sun-beams shining upon it as the vast Mountain so may few gathered together in Christs name be as truly assisted by the Spirit of Jesus Christ as where a multitude are met together Yet here are two Cautions very necessary to be held 1. That not every assembly which saith lo here is Christ is to be taken for such as are indeed gathered together in the name of Christ but such are so to be esteemed who sincerely hold the truth of Christ 2. Though holding the truth of Christ with a comfortable assistance of Gods Spirit as to their own particular Interest yet may they not presume to make and give Laws for the Churches publick discipline But if Christ be with them they must shew it in their peaceable obedience to authority and order either actively if with good conscience they may or passively if otherwise they cannot 4. We may note that in the general Councels venerable for truth and antiquity some have dissented and departed 1 King 18.19 1 King 22.6 8 5. The major part have not always been the best nor the lesser the worst Ahabs Prophets were hundreds against one Elijah and so against one Micaiah 6. Generall Councels though exceeding the Provincial in number and suffrages yet may they not excel them in weight there may be error of many as may appear in the second Nicene Councel can 7. Decreeing for Images and the Councel of Trent c. and there may be truth in few The Apostles in the Councel at Jerusalem were not many but sufficient to determine for the world because assisted by the Spirit of God 7. Provincial Councels as occasion was offered them Decreed that Tythes should be duly paid which if the General did not meddle withall it may be conceived that it was because they had no occasion thereof presented to them by any complaint and they being then in pursuit of the enemies of truth would not divert to the care of things thereto subordinate and much inferior These things laid down the prudent Reader may be satisfied concerning this argument of Councels and perceive the weakness thereof and the falshood of that assertion that these Councels did not so much as name or mention Tythes until the Lateran Councel Ann. 1119. and after a little pawse he saith Ann. 1180. Oh for the whetstone For the use of the poor This ointment said Judas might have been sold for much and given to the poor but this he said pag. 7. not that he cared for the poor but because he was a thief c. Mat. 26 9. Joh. 12.6 Now whether the poor are here intended and mentioned for love and care of them or malice to the Ministers against whom you bring this argument God knows and all good men know that a Sacrilegious person is a thief I fear your Charity would be contented that any one the devil not excepted should have your Tythes would he but send his Tything-Carts abroad for them so that Ministers might be deprived of them your work were done If some Charles Martell would take the Churches estate to pay Souldiers you would resolve upon the question it were Christian policy But to your often repeated objection we say that there were Tythes allotted for the poor distinct from the Ministers Tythes who have willingly relieved the poor and would do still but that
suppose you will not affirm that Mens charity was the first or principal moving cause or do you mean that the freewil of man in this business of tythes preceded that command of God as a cause the effect or that posito Dei mandato man did yield a free and chearful obedience in paying tythes as God had commanded Which voluntary act was as Pauls preaching of the Gospel such as that wo had been to him if he had not done it Express your terms and sense and let us have no after-reckonings We know that Gods Children yield a chearful and a voluntary obedience they do their duty commanded not moillingly grudgingly or of necessity and 2 Cor. 9 7. 1 Pet. 5.2 1 Cor 9.17 that God loves and rewards chearful obedience and such are all acts of true Religion voluntary not compulsory the Spirit of God making us willing of unwilling so carrying about our wills and affections as Astronomers say the primum mobile doth the inferior orbs of Heaven in their Diurnal motion from East to West contrary to their Natural motion yet by an admirable influence Citra violentiam So we can admit tythes paid by Gods servants to be a free-will offering respectu offerentis but not ex parte praecipientis as if man instituted and paid them without Gods Command for the same and as if they were works of Supererogation We know that in every good which we do God worketh both velle perficere Phil. 2. we acknowledg that they are not rightly performed by any pure Naturals of man but of Gods free Grace both Jubentis quod vult praestantis quod jubet So Israel brought a willing Offering unto the Lord every man and woman whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work Exod 35.29 which the Lord had commanded to be made by the hands of Moses But our Adversaries would fain have it that Tythes were but as some votive Obligation of the Owners which they needed not to have dedicated or paid except themselves pleased This is the Witchess Herodias which they so ambitiously pursue that they might once conclude an Arbitrary maintenance for Ministers and do but mark the Circle to which this mole is Conjured Fain would they have Gods Ordinance undermined and dissolved into such Imaginary Principles as might bear this castle in the Air that Tythes should henceforth be only what men in Charity and Free-will would give their Ministers Thank you for you kindness gentle Sir but get you Alms-men where you will we are none of them The Papist hath too much advantage already in their large maintenance open Presses for their Students Works liberal Contributions for any advancement of his Cause while our Presses are too much shut to good Studies Contributions rare is Honesty and if the Jesuite could but yet more discourage us by taking away the remainder of Ministers necessary maintenance by Tythes his work were done and England undone To the reverend Ministers I entreat leave to say If they be Prophets and if the Word of the Lord be with them let them now make Intercession to the Lord of Hosts Isai 27.18 that the Vessels which are left in the house of the Lord go not to Babylon And now limit them that is Tythes to Parishes c. That which you speak Page 30. may pass muster among your Impertinences as to the present question concerning Parishes I have already spoken Gen. 14.18 here I only add 1. That the first place of Scripture mentioning a Priest mentioneth Tythes paid unto him 2. The first place also wherein House of God Gen. 28. â—8 â—2 or Church is spoken of there also are Tythes the maintenance of the Priest-hood vowed to God as some note by that name whereby Parish-Churches were anciently called that is tituli lapis iste quem posui in titulum erit Domus Dei So Damasus in the life of Evaristus Bishop of Rome Anno 112. saith hic titulos in Urbe Roma divisit Presbyteris Platins vit Evaâ—ist Onuthrius compuâ—eth Anno 96. Concil To. 1. Pag. 106. eâ—i 1606. And the Nicen Council c. 21 mentionth Parishes as Carraza reciteth the Canons thereof out of the second Epistle of Julius So that by those divisions the Congregations were assigned to such and such Churches and the Tythes thence arising belonged to the Ministers there serving as hath been noted from Gal. 6.6 what the Popes you speak of got of first-fruits impropriate Tythes c. is a loss to our Clergy and therefore not advisedly urged by you against them That which you further say that No man can prescribe to have Tythes c. Were somthing against those who make prescription the ground of their claim which concerns us not who claim from divine donation Again you say many may prescribe to be free from Tyithes or part thereof Consider of what value prescription can be against Gods unchangeable moral Law and your second thoughts will tell you that antiquity of error can never make any good Prescription Christ yielded the Pharisaical glosses antiquity on their side Math. 5.21 c. ye have heard of old time that it was said by or to them c. which he presently corrected with his but I say unto you c. The rest of your following discourse savoureth strongly of your siding with the Popish party as your stomaking the Title of the head of the Church which we understand to be the supream Governor under God of inchurched men neither is this as you say here The Kings new Authority as the head of the Church For what say we more therein than Tertullian many hundred years since said We honor saith he the Emperor as we ought Vt hominem a Deo secundum solo Deo minorem Sic enim omnibus major est dum solo vero Deo minor est In Scap. c. 2. I conceive that you are not to learn that Caput importeth a Chief First or Principal But you say That all Arch-Bishops Bishops c. were no longer to hold of the Pope Page 30. but of the King and not to claim their benefices by Title from the Pope but of the King by vertue of that Act of Parliament and here the succession from the Pope was cut off and discontinued c. A grief to all good hearts think the Papists But why should this trouble you if you be none of them What is this to us who acknowledg neither dependance on nor Succession from the Pope You say more And so all their Right Title and Claim was and is at an end What because the Popes donation is at an end must Gods also be involved in the same ruin How will that conclusion follow The abuse and usurpation is taken away ergo the right use and just possession must down Are Gods Laws grounded on the Popes Decrees and Grants I never yet heard that claimed by any of you And what wilde Logick stands your discourse