like bowls before the altar yea that every pot in Ierusalem and in Iudah may be holiness to the Lord of Hosts Zech. 20. 21. We pray for the coming of his Kingdom and praise him that the number of those that seek the Lord in Scotland are not diminished but grow even under evil shepherds and lazy feeders which is the lilly among the thorns though we go under the name of Protesters Separatists hypocrites unpeaceable implacable spirits are made as the filth of the world and the off-scourings of all things yea troubled on every side in the streets Pulpits in divers Synods Presbyteries c. more then under prelacy yet not distressed perplexed but not in despair persecuted but not forsaken cast down but not destroyed We desire to believe our cry shall come up before the Lord though we be afflicted and helpless and look on the right hand and behold now man knows us refuge falls us It s wonder if there be a power now on earth who saith in reality as Iob did when the secret of God was on his Tabernacle Job 29. 11. When the ear heard me then it blessed me and when the eye saw me it gave witness to me because I delivered the poor that cryed and the fatherless and him that had none to help him the blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me and I caused the widows heart to sing for joy I put on righteousness and it clothed me my judgement was as a Robe and a Diadem I was as eyes to the blind and feet was I to the lame I was a father to the poor and the cause that I knew not I searched out c. And now to other snares this is added That our Brethren have framed and defend one engagement which every Intrant to the Ministry must take and subscribe otherwise there is no maintenance for him that he is resolved to live peaceably and unoffensively under the present government and how far we are from siding with any seditious unpeaceable treacherous and malignant way and from raising tumults is well known but we dare not deceive our souls and deal doubly with the Lord and with the present powers to make a difference betwixt a resolution to do a duty and a promise or engagement to do a duty as our brethren do when the resolution is declared and subscribed 2. When it is judicially declared to understanding and wise men who cannot take the sense to be he is resolved for the present but hath power to alter his resolution to morrow and judges in conscience he may alter without equivocating For when the resolution is declared 2. Judicially inforâ— declared 3. When it is declared ad modum compacti by way of covenant if the present powers shall give order for his enjoying the stipend he is resolved to do such a duty Let any say whether he doth not covenant promise and if he speak sincerely as a Minister of Christ he may not swear the same This we disown as no lawful act of a Presbytery though it be said to be done by a surreptitious meeting of Correspondents from the Synods of this Church without the knowledg and consent of some and of hundreds of godly Ministers 2. As we desire not Presbyterial government to be reproched for such judging so neither are Prelatical acts of Synods for debarring from the holy ministry men of an holy and unblamable conversation and for the grace of God in them and their knowledge and utterance able and fit to preach the Gospel upon this account because they are unpeaceable and hold up debates that is because they will not be satisfied with the publick resolutions for taking in to places in the Church Parliament Army Committee of Estates all the malignant party in the land or will not promise silence in their matters 3. Nor doth it belong to the essence of Presbyterial Government that all members of this Church and inferiour Judicatures should so submit to the superiour respective Judicatures that if they be grieved with the sentence they ought to acquiesce thereunto and not to contra-act but onely appeal until there shall be a general assembly to determine the matter This never was and I trust nor shall ever be their mind who are for Presbyterial government nor do our brethren justly father it upon the general Assembly 〈◊〉 1648. Sess. 30. For our Church acknowledgeth no subjection nor subordination of inferiour Judicatures unto superiours but in the Lord and so to submit to any sentence and to forbear a duty of preaching the Gospel praying visiting exhorting catechising pastorally in families to abstain from the Lords Supper and from acts of due censure necessary for the flock upon the known unjust sentence of a Synod until a general Assembly which possibly cannot be convened in an age to determine is to 1. obey men unjustly forbidding a called Minister of Christ to preach in season and out of season rather then God for they unjustly forbid and the Lord justly commands therefore the called Minister must act and contra-act to their unjust sentence and not forbear for an hour as the Scripture clears 2. Tim. 4. 1 2. Act. 20. 31. 18 19 20. 1 Cor. 9. 16. Isa. 58. 1. Ier. 1. 17. Ezek. 2. 3 4 5. 3. 10 17. Act. 5. 28 29. and so this is unjust 2. It is to make Synods and Ecclesiastical Judicatures Lords of our faith which the Reformed Churches detest in popish Councels for all men and Councels most lawful can challenge only limited obedience and submission in the Lord to their determinations if they speak and command according to the Law and the Testimony Isa. 8. 20. otherwise there is no sight in them And so it is popish 3. We conceive in performing acts of that government which Christ owns in his Word we do not sin for no authority of a Judicature can make that to be the word of God and obedience to God which was not as to the matter obedience to God before that authority nor on the contrary Now to abstain from preaching praying eating and drinking as the Lords Supper in a called minister and in a visible professor duly called and fitted is sin then cannot the authority of the Church fat less their known unjust senâ—ence make it lawful 4. Suppose the general Assembly should ratifie and confirm the unjust sentence of the inferiour Judicature or annull their just sentence the people of God are not obliged to stand to either the one or the other So we disown the point which our Brethren delivered to us in their papers for union sought by us as nothing belonging to the essence of Presbyterial government but reject it as unsound tyrannical and popish 4. As we desire to be humbled for our accession to the sins of the Land so it s no part of Presbyterial government owned by us that many unsufficient ignorant and wickedly weak not a few yea too many scandalous malignant and prophane Ministers and
organick body but it hath power to edâ—fie it selfe as totum essentiale Ans. Christian edifying one of another in divers congregations 1 Thes. 5. 12. Col. 3. 16. Heb. 3. 13. by women and children of age we deny not but a Church edifying without Pastors or a perfecting of the body without officers Eph. 4. 11 12. 1 Cor. 12. 12 13 28. 1 Cor. 14. 4 12. we find not 2 Your male-Church edifying without Pastors must also edifie as an organical body In it women and children be silent and some unofficed brother teach pray and preside in the creating of officers and do the like when the Officers turn grievous Wolves and are to be cast out for then some unofficed brother must be Mouth and Organ to the rest and that is the very charge that Peter sustained in pastoral preaching at the creating of an officer and the Apostle Matthias Act. 1. 15. Mr. H. Let Mr. R. tell how God set teachers in the Church if teachers be before the Church Ans. Let Mr. H. tell how God giveth breath to them that walk on the Earth Isa. 42. 5. Was there breath before there was a living man walking on the earth or was there a living man walking on the earth before there was breathing Teachers are before Converts as Fathers are before Children Iohn Baptist and the Apostles were before such as they converted to the faith and baptized Noah before the Vineyard which he dressed God planted Apostles and Teachers even in the organical politick Church before it was a politick organical Church for by setting Organs in the body he made it an organical body but it is a senseless inference Ergo these Organs who are both Organs and Fathers and causes procreant of the Church had no being before the politick Church had being for natural organs in a physical body are only organs but not causes of the natural body but politick organs may be both and in this case are both Mr. H. To these are the Keys promised who are Stewards of the mysteries of God 1 Cor. 4. 1. servants of his house 2 Cor. 4. 5. Ans. The Servants are Pastors and Teachers in these places then the ruling Elder shall bear no Key Ans. Yet the conclusion is strong against the unofficed bearers Mr. Cotton the New England Discipline and Paul are herein as much crossed as I am for to them the ruling Elders are Stewards applying in censures in the external Court of Christ the Word as the Teachers apply it concionally Mr. Cotton makes the ruling Elders to be included with the Teachers of Ephesus Act. 20. And by the Argument Mr. H. may deny office-power of overseeing the house to all but to such as labour in the Word and Doctrine Mr. H. The places Isa. 9. 6. Revel 3. 7. speak of Monarchical power in Christ onely and prove not the point of delegated power Ans. Nor did I bring them for any other end but to prove that the Keys whoever bear them Head or Servants do signifie a power of office steward Oeconomus Commander of the Castle and so are never given to unofficed brethren for which cause I brought Fathers Doctors Divines Protestants Learned Papists saying the same And Mr. H. passes them all without an answer So the Learned Pagâ—in Mercerus Shimlâ—rus Buxtorf Ark of Noah Mr. Leigh and all Dictionaries expound the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when given to House Prison Gaol Kingdom and Stephanus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Mr. H. dictates against the authority of all the Learned Interpreters and Linguists and tells us besâ—de an office power it noteth Matth. 16. a judicial power of the spouse and wife to admit unto or reject out in the family as cause requires But 1. one word of Scripture he gives not 2. Nor saith Christ Matth. 16. any such thing as he gives the Keyes to the Church upon the Rock as the formal subject though it may be gathered he gives them for that Church as the object and final cause Mr. H. To these Mat. 16. doth Christ give the Keyes to whom be giveth warrant and official authority for actual exercising of opening and shutting but this he giveth to Peter as representing Teachâ—rs and Elders to thee will I give c. whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth c. So Mr. R. Ans. All may be granted and the official authority may be formally in the officers and originally and virtually in the Church 2. The proposition is fallâ— to wit to them the power of the Keyes is given firstly to whom warrant and official authoritie is given for the exercise of the same Keyes for the power of the Keyes is larger then office-power Ans. 1. My Argument is yet wronged to the same person to whom he promiseth the power or keyes or the power in its essence actu primo to the same person he promiseth shall exercise the specifick acts of the power and the second acts that must be the first formal subject to which God proâ—iseth a â—…sonable soul and the second and specifick acts of discoâ—rsing and that must be essentially a man Now unofficed brethren are not Embassadors but they are onely these to whom the Embassadors and officers are sent 2. By Mr. H. the â—eyes must in their official power begiven to Peter as representing the Guides â—nd also the power of the Keyes in the power of ruling must be given to Peter as to the first subject representing believers If the Text speak this it is a new conceit that never an Interpreter dreamed of and it must be made out that Peter iâ— spoken of in the Text in that â—â—ofold relation but that Peters binding and loosing on earth are acts of office or at least include â—cts of office and acts both of concional and also juridical remitting and retaining of sin and who despiseth Peter and the officers in either despiseth Christ and him that sent him is clear and that remitting and retaining sins is a binding and loosing cannot be denied and that remitting and retaining of sin flows from Christ calling the Disciples to an office is as clear Iohn 20. 21. As my Father Apostled me so send I you receive the Holy Ghost whose sins ye pardon they are pardoned c. And that this is a clear commission to Peter and all officers in him to exercise an official power of binding and loosing is apparent by this Text if by any in the New Testament But Mr. H. against this clear Text saith here Pastors have good warrant for their office power because the Church hath received power to admit chuse and refuse officers c. But because Mr. R said they have clear commission for the Keys both in power v. 19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and in the acts and exercises 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and what thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven But though the place be clear and all Interpreters teach it yet will not Mr H. grant
lay on bands neither as formal Scripture for they come not from the immediately inspiring Spirit nor yet onely as clear and infallible deductions from Scripture for so the counsel of a woman Abigail infallibly deduced from the sixth Command laid a burthen upon the conscience of David And this is all the tie that Mr. H. gives to Synods they tie as godly counsels of women and servants But Mr. R. and so Mr. Cotton gives a third member they lay burthens on the consciences of the Churches not for the matter onely as the godly advice of women but formally as from the Ministerial Authority of the Commissioners And this power Mr. Tho. Goodwyn and Mr. Ph. Nye give to all Ministers over their congregations So as these three shall be Judges of Mr. H. his great mistake in this distinction Hence two contradictions are here Mr. H. gives no power to Synods but power of advising such as women over men Mr. Cotton offends at that and sayes that Synods have a Ministerial power over the Churches In the former Mr. H. leaves his Brethren and sides with Socinians and Arminians And Mr. H. shall confess the weakness of this distinction if applied to doctrines delivered by Pastors to the flock for they neither binde as womens godly counsels deduced from Scripture onely not do they binde as immediately inspired formal Scripture 2. The first and formal subject of the power of the Keys is the male-Church of the congregation saith Mr. H. yea not that onely saith Mr. Cotton a part of the power of the Keys is in a Synod The Dissenting Brethren gave in a Paper to the Committee of Accommodation at Westminster concerning Synods c. 1. At these meetings let them pray and expound Scripture resolve difficult Cases of Conscience 2. They may dogmatickly declare what is the will of Christ in these cases and this judgement ought to be received with reverence and obligation 〈◊〉 from an Ordinance of Christ. 3. If the doctrine or practise of any Congregation be erroneous hurtful or destructive to holiness and peace of that or of other congregations they are bound to give an account thereof to the Classis or Synod So we owe a reason of our hope 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to every one women and Magistrates that are scandalized 1 Pet. 3. 15. Rom. 14. 15. 1 Cor. 10. 31 32. 4. The Classis and Synod may examine admonish and in case of obstinacy declare against that congregation 1. This is but toward an offending Church 2. A brother or womâ—n may declare against or withdraw from obstinate offenders though not as from a Church 5. The Classis or Synod may judge of any who deserve excommunication 6. If the particular Eldership refuse to do their duty the Classis ought not onely to withdraw communion from them but also to exercise the sentence of excommunication themselves This was refused by some but it s a great testimony from Adversaries for Presbyterial Government onely it wants Scripture 7. In the case of an appeal from an unjust sentence the Classis may repeal they say not by the power of Jurisdiction for a Christian woman a Martyr repealed the Acts of Trent the unjust sentence if the congregation be obstinate 8. The Classis or Synod may ordain Ministers for congregations that have not a sufficient Ministery In all this except the sixth much is yielded and nothing is yielded For 1. Every godly counsellor man or woman as a counsellor by the fifth Command is above such as are counsell'd being honoured to carry the minde of God as a private messenger of God beside that the counsel for the matter bindes the conscience So David saith to a woman 1 Sam. 25. 32. Blessed be the Lord God of Israel which sent thee this day to meet me 2. They insinuate a distinction of erroneous doctrine hurtful to holiness and some erroneous doctrine not hurtful to holiness whereas he who commands us to be holy as he is holy 1 Pet. 1. 16. commands all sound opinions in fundamentals or all revealed truths nor can it but be hurtful to holiness to have erroneous opinions of God and Christ such as Socinians Antinomians and Familists and others have 3. They do not with Christian candor set down their minde concerning Synods and Classis as they call them nor confirm what they say by Scripture Mr. H. If a heathen turn a member of the Iewish Church he is by Mr. R his way by the Law of Nature to submit to Iewish ceremonies because every-member of the corporation must be under the Laws of the whole This shall make every Law positive to be the Law of Nature Ans. Not so It s the Law of Nature in general that the whole rule the part but it follows not Ergo every member is to submit to every positive Law of the whole though most unjust the member is tâ—… submit to every Law of Nature commanded by the whole The little finger infected with a Gangrene is to submit to the whole man that it be cut off for the safety of the whole body but it s against particular nature that it be cut off but most suitable to universal nature So in the general its natural for the creature rational to obey the Creator but it follows not but it s a meer positive Law that Peter give his life for the Gospel when God by a positive command calls him to it and the Law positive if Divine iâ— not contrary to the Law of universal Nature Mr. H. frequently in such purposes slips Mr. H. The division of a Nation into Provinces of a Christian Province into Territories or Presbyteries is either a device of man or a Divine Institution Ans. If a device of man be taken for an act of Christian prudence it is then neither simply the one nor the other but mixt of both for a device of man is taken in an evil part for an unlawful forgery as 1 King 12. 33. Hos. 13. 2. Psa. 106. 39. and so whatever is an act of Christian choice is not a device of man Mr. H. That which is acted by one and may be altered by another Prince is a device of man But such is the division of a Nation into provinces Ans. That which is in question is not concluded the division of a Christian Nation into Presbyteries and Provinces according to local bounds and Mathematical inches is alterable and so a congregation Independent of 350 rather of 349 or 360 is alterable shall it not upon reason be an alterable device The quantity of water in Baptism of wine that every one drinks at the Lords Supper how long the pastor shall preach two hours or three are alterable as to the quantity by men but for that the Ordinances of a congregation of water in Baptism are not devices or forgeries of men that there should be such associations of Provinces of Territories for convenient feeding governing and Mr. H. granted for
Church members Ans. If the faithful scattered in sundry Congregations have an invisible communion onely by faith and so make up an invisible communion and an invisible Mystical Body then two Sister-Churches that cannot meet in one place though they may do all the duties of Church-gaining one another as Mat. 18. yet are not a visible body noâ— their acts acts of Church-profession not are they visible members of the same Body of Christ because they partake noâ— of the Ordinances within the same walls as do members of the same single Congregation so there is no visible communion but within the walls of one Church which is absurd and repugnant to common sense 2. It is uncharitable and against the Word to teach That when a Church is dissolved by no sin and scandal visible but by persecution or pestilence that the dissolved members though both real and visible converts have no right to the Ordinances for if the formal cause to wit their confederacy into one visible body as Mr. H. saith be removed their visible and external right is removed The like is to be said of visible professors and of members of another Congregation and known godly sojourners these Mr. H. excommunicates for no scandal visible and invisible for impossible it is that they can meet together in one place with their own Church with which onely they are incorporate by this confederacy Mr. H. This confederating implieth two 1. The act of mutual engaging which passeth away arising from the act of obligation the state of membership The nature of incorporating members to mutual duties will constrain to yield to this Ans. 1. An Oath or Covenant is no passing away thing as Mr. H. saith but leaveth the person under the tie 2. The state of trying these persons and their seed to be baptized onely into the single Body is a dream even to Mr. Robinson and the engagement that gives them right to Ordinances onely with that single Congregation and in one place and with no society else to partake of one Bread and of one Christ 1 Cor. 10. 16 17. is a Scriptureless imagination for 1 Cor. 12. 12 13. We are baptized all Iews and Gentiles by one Spirit into one Body Catholick not a single Congregation onely and are all made to drink into one Spirit in the Lords Supper even all not of one single Congregation onely but of several Congregations whether they be engaged Mr. Hâ— way or not Mr. H. The judgement must be of persons free in regard of humane constraint for they may joyn or not joyn to this Congregation to receive them or not receive them 2. It gives power to each over another to watch over one another Answ. Mr. H. makes three properties of this engagement but he is sharp-sighted who can difference the third from the first 2. Freedom from humane constraint iâ— dubious If from the Christian Magistrate compelling to Elicite acts of the will Never man I think dreamed of such constraint as may be laid upon men to believing loving fearing If it be freedom from compelling the external man to Imperate acts our Divines say The Magistrate may civilly in his way compel to the means of Salvation the baptized ones especially both to hear and to eat and drink at the Lords Table in some true Church If it be freedom from a Law of God or the Church constraint as this it must be or then nothing is said 1. God hath commanded all to come to the house Pro. 1. â—0 Prov. 9. 1 2 3. Matth. 22. 3 4 5 6. Luk. 14. 16. And that is a Prophesie to be fulfilled under the New Testament Zach. 14. 17. And it shall be that who so will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King the Lord of hosts even upon them there shall be no rain The English notes say it figures the Elects gathering together into a particular Church to which every one must reduce himself to partake of the communion of Saints And they are also the words of Diodati and Calvin Iunius Piscator Danaeus say the same in sense It is true preaching to a particular Church should be voluntary but not by such a Covenant and so all worship should be and it were not enough to say Lord thou commandest us to get us to the shepherds tents Cant. 1. 7. And to come into Wisdoms house but we have freedom to enter Members to this or this or all the Churches on earth 2. And it is in all the Churches on earths power to receive us or not which is also false One is born baptized comes to be a visible professor in the Church of Boston is not that providential necessity a ground to the Magistrate to command him to do his duty and for the Church to constrain him by Obâ—estations Censures being born a member to partake of the Ordinances as his duty is O but he is not satisfied with the Ministery of Boston but he hath freedom to enter a Member of a Church a hundred miles distant by a new Church-oath shew a warrant why he ought not to worship the Lord there where his Calling and Trade is he must confess Christ before men in all places it is not arbitrary then 3. Not one word of God is alledged that this engagement gives power to watch over one another in this Congregation onely and not in all Congregations where Providence shall dispose he shall be as if all these Church-duties to Members of Christ of warning one another comforting watching over one another taking care for one another mourning with those that mourn Col. 3. 16. 1 Thess. 5. 5 11 14. 1 Cor. 12. 26 27. Heb. 10. 24 25. 3. 13. Rom. 12. 15. were forbidden as contrary to the Rule of the Gospel in order to all precious Church-membes of other Congregations of which we are not Members Mr. H. There is good cause why visible Saints uâ— supra who are thus to engage to watch over one another should be acquainted with each others fitness c. and because the work is weighty it would be done with fasting and praying which is not requisite when one single Member is admitted Ans. That the thousands baptized of Iohn Baptist and the three thousand Acts 2. who were to engage themselves that is before they were admitted could have acquaintance and knowledge of the spiritual fitness one of another is impossible and not onely wants the authority of the Word but is expresly against it for it was impossible in some few hours to be done 2. Ten neighbouring sister Churches lying together are obliged to watch over one another then they ought by the Rule of the Gospel to come under the same engagement Mr. H. An implicite covenanting may be sufficient as suppose a Congregation consist of the children of Parents expresly confederate but vocal and express confederation comes nearest to the Rule Mr. R. his bitter clamours that we make all
congregation Yea I adde A member of the visible Church whereas he was no better then a heathen before and the Churches of New England say with me Though Mr. H. say That never one of them said any such thing And sure this is one Church-covenant by which persons are made fixed members of a congregation Ergo they are by this covenant made members of the visible Church whereas they were as pagans before But there is another Church-covenant by which pastor and people are married and every member so married as they cannot act as Church-members without their own congregation and he cannot act as a pastor toward any but toward his own flock Hence a new Quaere Whether there be two different Church-covenants 3. It s without question that the family of Abraham was Gods covenanted people before circumcision was instituted Gen. 17. nor is there any ground for a formal Church-covenanting among themselves And it speaks against all Scripture to say there was a Church covenant in Egypt and in the Wilderness Exod. 19. 1 5. for they were not made Church-members for members they were before by these covenantings with God And this is Mr. H. his own consequence They are members before they chose their Pastors Ergo. So I retort Mr. H. If this covenant difference the visible Church from the invisible as the formal cause then there have been no visible Churches since the Apostles times till now Now the Churches saith Mr. H. in England Holland c. have the implicit covenant at their practice evidenceth Ans. Yet it must fâ—…ow since presbyterian Churches believe and practice juridical power without the bonds of a single Independent Church in divers associate Congregations 2. And do not contend for but are against really supposed Saints as only constituent members of the visible Church and in the causes internal and external And 3. are so contradictorious to Independency there have been no Church according to the rule of the word since the Apostles dayes 2. If an implicit covenant suffice we shall find popish Churches to have much of that Mr. H. Though many unwarrantable wayet convey this covenant yet it self may be warrantable Ans. If by ways Mr. R. mean as he doth wayes inseparable causes pillars means and undeniable consequences the covenant must be the more unhappy as the unlawful wayes of the Mass the lifting up of the bready God and Idolatrous Ceremonies inseparably conveying it render it unlucky Mr. H. It is a dream to say that when the Apostles came to plant Churches that private men not the Apostles converted them Where is the man of ours that will affirm that all All are converted by private Christians Ans. The reply auswers not a whit to the Charge of Mr. R. now when the Apostles are not 2. The Apostles by our Brethrens way are not Pastors so much as extraordinary nor publick men for extraordinariness destroys not the nature of Pastors and to our Brethren Pastor and flock are relatives but the heathen are no fed stock nor these who now teach the Gospel to the heathen Apostles nor Pastors 3. These who teach that now Apostles ceasing Pastors as Pastors convert none according to the revealed command of Christ but pre suppose all are converted before they be admitted members they convert not as Pastors Ergo they must convert them as no Pastors Ergo they convert them as private men except there be a middle preacher between a preaching officer and a private man but this every where is taught by our brethren now this middle uncalled man must be the ordinary converser of all 2. Mr. H. teacheth that the Church homogeneal in ordinary now when there are no Apostles is before Baptism and Ministry now this Church is all the visible sovieties of confederate converts on earth Let Mr. H. tell us who converted them not Pastors for they are a framed Church in esse and operari the Fathers and sole Creators of all Officers Mr. H. It is unwarrantable to say Pastors now convert not Indians and Heathens saith Mr R. It is warrantable enough saith M. H. Answ. Enough is a feast Converters of Heathen now are either Apostles Evangelists or Ordinary Officers and Pastors or of some middle new Officers this latter cannot without Scripture be said not the former for they want the gift of tongues and miracles nor are they ordinary Pastors For Pastor and flock saith Mr. H. Shepherd called and Church chusing Husband and Wife are Relatives But Indians are no chusing Church Mr. H. Men must be satisfied in conscience of the conversion one of another saith Mr. R. Ans. To reasonable charity they should saith Mr. H. and no doubt it was in Ananias Saphira Ans. But their long conversing together for this satisfaction Mr. H. bringeth down to two poor experienced Witnesses Magus and Iudas for every one must witness of another and that witnesses were called and judicially deponed that all the 3000. Act. 2. and all Iudea and all round about who were baptized Matth. 3. 3 4. Mark 1. 5. Luk. 4. 21. were real converts who can believe except you believe for so saith Mr. H. Mr. H. What is all this to overthrow the covenant Ans. Very much for it destroyes the Ministry for though some private Christians may convert some yet no man can shew me by our brethrens way that pastors now do convert any at all contrary to Mat. 28. 19 20 Rom. 10. 14 15. Eph. 4. 11 12 13. 1 Cor. 3. 5. 2 Cor. 5. 20. Act. 26. 16 17 18. or if they convert any they do it not as pastors M. H. They which have no Church-power can put forth no Church power but such as Churches to other Churches Ans. The proposition is weak they put forth an act of love of counsel of approbation of conjunction as well as power Mr. R. grants one single Congregation to have no power over another many Churches sent to Parliament to declare their judgement may approve of their determinations if holy if not may confute them yet they have no Church-power over the Parliament Ans. 1. My argument is mistaken many Churches suppose mine have not power by this way to receive in one Church nor Iames Cephas and Iohn power to receive authoritatively Paul as they do say Calvin Pelicanus Pareus Piscator Diodati Beza yea Ierom also before them Mr. H. If Mr. R. constâ—ue a token of consent consensionis to be a Symbole of authority it is beyond my understanding Ans. Mr. R. never understands private consent or private counsel such as one private man or woman may give to another private person of their own or of another congregation to be publick authority but I acknowledge a publick authoritative and Aopstolick consent to be in Iames Cephas Iohn and their meaning was Brother Paul our counsel as Brethren is and our consent you be a Preacher but we have no Apostolick authority from the Lord to own you as an Apostle
blood and yet if the matter was too hard the same man was a Judge and a Member of the Sanhedrim Deut. 17. Mr. H. his last difference The Iudicature of Classis and Congregations do not differ formally saith Mr. R. but onely in more or lesse extension of power Ans. Then there are no specifical acts that the one puts forth but the other can put forth as occasion shall require gradus non variant speciem then they can ordain officers and excommunicate in the Congregation He said before if there be the same office there is the same definition and the same causes to wit of election and choice of the Classical and of the Congregational Elders Ans. The difference is only of more or less as of a River and the whole Element though divers learned men judge the Congregation to be no governing Church at all but only their Elders the delegates of the Presbyterial Church which consisting of divers Congregations is the first governing Church 2. There are no sâ—â—cifick acts which the Elders collectively taken may not exercise in both the one and the other but then shall it not follow thâ—â— a single congâ—â—gational Eldership may ordain and exâ—â—mmunicate in one 〈◊〉 Congregation there alone divided from the body for congrâ—…nal Elders cannot teach oâ—derly and he is the God of ordâ—r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in his Church in all the Congregations without a calâ— Nor 2. Exercise the power of a Synod in them all 3. I 〈◊〉 this argument Archippâ—â— hath the same office to the whole Congregation and to the single mâ—mbers who chused him and whom he feeds or then he hath so many officer as there be chusing and fed members â—â—ught by the word and ruled which is absurd Eâ—go as the single voâ—â— of one member made him a Pastor to one and of a second made him a Pastor to a second and so forth So the â—otes of the whole made him a Pastor to the whole for that is the same officâ— thâ—â— hath the same causes and the same choice and election saith M◠〈◊〉 Ergo where the same causes are not the same office cannot be but one single electing vote and the electing votâ—â— of the whole Church by Mr. H. his way cannot be the same causes for one vote makes him not a Pastor 2. If Archippuâ— hath the same office to the whole congregation and to every single member then as he 〈◊〉 pastoral acts of teaching and ruling to the whole so to the parts and single members but this latter is denied by Mr. H page 104 who saith That a Pastor cannot put forth Pastoral acts but in the Church assembly A strange imagination Mr. H. By the same official power saith Mr. R. that a Pastor teacheth his own fleck viva voce he teacheth others by writing Ans This is a new invention that I never heard of before 1. The official power by which he preacheth he receiveth by election and he may be rejected from it by the people in case of delinquency 2. By his official power he may require them to hear but may not require all Churches to read his writings and if they offensively refuse to read he cannot censure them as he may censure them that refuse to hear the word 3. If this power of writing of Books to edifie the Churches proceed from his office all Ministers by their office should write Books 4. That which another may do with as much authority and more authority of truth as being more able yet being out of office that cannot belong to the officer but to write books is such Ans. 1 Official power is not from election but from the saying on of the hands of the Elders 1 Tim. 3. 1 2. 1 Tim. 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2 2. Tit. 1. 5. 2. It is true that a Pastor cannot require by his office those of another Congregation to hear him preach and receive the seals from him nor censure them if they refuse but it is a bad consequence of Logick therefore he doth not exercise these pastoral acts to them by his office as the Brethren grant 2. A Minister by his office may require his hearers to give much alms pray much read and confer much both these of his own and other flocks yet he cannot censure them for not coming up to the highest pitch of these affirmative duties except he may rebuke them and so may he do all who are remiss in reading edifying writings and the Church may censure unsound books Acts 15. 24. 3. Neither Mr. R. nor any judicious man can teach that either a gift to write Books or of eminent preaching praying exhorting proceeds out of a power of office it is a sanctified gift which the Church seeth and judgeth to be in any before they call him to office and any gift is by order of nature and time before the office and so proceeds not from the office and therefore it is not required that every Pastor should have a gift of writing books but if the Lord have given it to any they exercise it as such gifted officers as the Prophets and Apostles as such Prophets so gifted did write Canonick Scriptures so are Pastors if gifted to write and preach in their way and both to write and preach by their office Nor is it good Logick that all in office should write books because some by vertue of their office writ books for a Minister gifted with four Talents is obliged to gain with these four Talents and that as a Minister by vertue of his office but it is weak Logick to infer Ergo all Ministers by vertue of their office are obliged to gain with four Talents for many are obliged by vertue of their office to gain with only two to their Lord and with only one 4. It was needless to Mr. H. to prove writing of books doth not belong to the power of office because a learned man out of office may do it with more authority for Mr. R. had no such intention For sure if such a thing agreed to the office-power as the office-power then all Officers Pastors Elders were obliged to write books and yet Mr. H. does not very happily prove it because many learned men unofficed may with more authority of truth write books then officed men It is only some officed men he must mean or it is not true And then I retort it thus many officed men may write books with more authority both of truth and of office and two are better then one then some unofficed men less learned Ergo some gifted Pastors do not as Pastors so gifted and by vertue of their office relating both to the presbyterian Church and their own Congregation edifie all the Churches about by writing books It follows not Mr. H. We are told that Elders are ruling in all Churches collectively taken and they are teachers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in some reserved acts not constant teachers he that rules teacheth but always the
same flock Ans. Take classical Elders as they are congregational Elders and that is all one as to say no classical Elders and then they are no teaching Elders and all that is gained is this a classical Elder as he is no classical Elder is a teaching Elder And so there is no distinction Ans. Such quirks become not grave M. H. What is a Synodical Elder Mr. H. saith a counselling Elder I reply that is no Elder but a counselling Brother or Sister But Mr. Cotton and our Brethren say better A synodical Elder is an Elder synodically teaching the Churches with pastoral and dogmatick authority without all power of jurisdiction that is a Synodical Elder as no Congregational Elder but as he judgeth in Synod is a teaching and a ruling Elder Then I infer that al Synodical Elder must be both an Elder and no Elder So animal as he is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is non hâ—mo but he is vivâ—â—s It were easie to weary the Reader with many wild unsolid notions such like Ergo animal is homo non homâ— Mr. H. So a Pastor may be a teaching Pastor to one Church and a ruling Pastor to two or three or thirty This is a Bâ—shop Obj. The Bâ—shop arrogates thiâ— to himself alone Ans. Shew a rule of Christ why the Elders may not join many Elders to join with him for you have no rule of Christ to join many to him to rule many Churches nor hath he a rule to assume many to him Ans. Not any of the separation ever refuted with that strength of Scripture Reason Antiquity the domineeringg prelacy as the godly presbyterians in Britain and the reformed Churches But so many thousand Independent Monarchies and two Congregational or three Elders for a Deacon is for Tables Act. 6. subordinate in point of jurisdiction to none on earth is a more lively image of a domineering Prelacy then all the Presbyteries on earth 2. There is no rule to join other prelates or elders to a prelate an unlawful officer having power of jurisdiction the only proper pastor and all others are but pastors under him and his delegates But Mr. H. cannot say that the pastor of a congregation is an unlawful pastor to whom so many bastard pastors are added if he do this shall reflex upon his own way for the Synodical Elder is a pastorally teaching Elder to many Churches Antioch Ierusalem and also a teaching and ruling Elder to one congregation by our brethrens way Is the Synodical Elder therefore a pastor of pastors and a Bishop And Mr. H. cannot say but that there might have been divers congregations in Ierusalem and yet unformed Churches and that the twelve Apostles did feed and rule them all in common and so shall Peter teach one Congregation at once and rule many whom he cannot teach for physically it is impossible he can feed many at once and yet there was but one Presbytery and this we shall hear Mr. H. confess hereafter Ergo the twelve Apostles and Church-Elders feeding many Congregations not formed with fixed Pastors shall bring in such sort of Bishops as Mr. H. charges upon me Mr. H. If they do not both rule and teach they cannot fulfâ—l their Ministry Ans. How is it proved that Pastors cannot fulfil their Ministry except they both rule all the Churches with acts Synodical and their own Congregations also 2. How is it proved that there is a blank in the Ministry except Pastors both teach and rule these same persons some of the Congregation are so experiencedly taught of God that rebukes and censures of excommunication are never drawn out nor need to be drawn out against them never Interpreter so expounded Col. 4. Mr. H. If Pastors be Pastors and in office when they are out of Court then have they Church-jurisdiction out of the Court but the first is true Also censures shâ—uld be dispenced in the Congregation and there they must preach also Ans. Priests when not actuâ—lly sitting in the Sanhedrim Members of Parliament are Members sitting in the House and Pastors are Elders actu primo when not sitting in the Congregational Judicature Ergo they can exercise acts of jurisdiction out of Court in their Houses and may the Eldership preach out of the Court it is a shame to hear such Logick 2. Belike Mr. H. thinks it unpossible to dispence censures but the Elders must preach Ergo when the people excommunicate their whole Officers because heretical they must also preach pastorally for it is pastoral ruling and teaching which makes a fulfilling of the Ministry but the conclusion is absurd let Mr. H. see to it CHAP. V. The Argument from the onerousness of Presbyterial Ruling of many Churches and of Congregationally feeding of others against the Presbyterial Church are discussed MR. H. The classical course layeth a burden upon teaching Elders which Gods word never laid and which they are not able to discharge the Apostles appointed Elders in every Church to feed the flâ—ck not the flocks Mr. R. the way of watching over Sister Churches is as dreadful for onerous careful laborious watchfulness in the way of conscience as to be bound thereto by way of duty for this bond of lovely and brotherly consociation which is the foundation of Presbyterial governing ties us to doe no more in governing and helping other Sister Churches then if We had no further warrant to promote their ed fication then the alone relation of brotherly consociation The sentence is saith Mr. H. unperfect and therefore that it may reach his purpose I think is must be thus expressed the bond of brotherly consociation tiâ—th us to do no more in governing Sister Churches then brotherly consociation simply can do is true but impertinent to Mr. R. his scope which is to compare the bond and burthen between brotherly association and office-imposition as if there were a parity between them Ans. 1. The classical course layeth no other burthen upon teaching Elders by way of united jurisdictions in governing neighbour Churches that are the same body and have the same seals common as Mr. Cotton and his own Discipline agrees as I often cite then the way of Churches both associated by brotherly association and by Synodical and authoritative governing as the same Mr. Cotton teacheth and Mr. H. saith it is true but not pertinent and if it be true why contend we 2. That it is not pertinent to my purpose is denied Why Because saith he Mr. R. his scope is to make a parity and equality between the burthen of Brotherly consociation and of Office-imposition But that is a change of my words and therefore must lie upon Mr. H. as his not my words except they be wrested Nor is it my scope to make an equality in quantity as if there were as Mr. H. most mistakingly saith the like care onerousness and labour required in duties of Christian watchfulness in a brotherly way as in duties of office relation But in equality of
31 32. 7. Though there be many Churches in Galatia Gal. 1. 2. yet must they be one lump who have power to judge and censure false teachers Gal. 5. 9. and there is a Church restoring made by spiritual officers Gal 6. 1. otherwise they might have replied We Galatians have no power in one body to cut off a troubler who infecteth the whole lump every single congregation is to see to that and the troubler is without our Churches save to one only single Independent power say our Brethren 8. It s not possible that the Churches can send their common Messengers whom they choose 2 Cor. 8. 19 23. except the Churches convene men women and children or then convent in Elders of many Churches or the Apostles must have gone from Church to Church to beg suffrages and votes which sort of Election is never heard of in any Writer sacred or profanâ— As to the first who can believe that men and women and children capable to hear and be baptized also which is the onely Church of Believers owned by our Brethren the externally covenanted and redeemed did send the Apostles to Ierusalem or received the Apostles and did welcome them or salute the Saints as Act. 16 3 4. Rom. 16. 16 Act. 15. 22 27 28 therefore need for it the second must be said That the Churches in their Heads Rulers Officers sent them which is a very Presbyterial Church 9. If divers Churches meet for laying on burthens by power of the Keys as M. Cot. saith exercising acts of Church-government then there is a Presbyterial Church governing without and above a single congregation by pastors neither chosen to be fixed and constant teachers nor that can possibly teach many congregations But the former Mr. Cotton and our Brethren teach Obj. This is no Church-power for a Synod is not a Church bâ—cause it is no Church-jurisdiction Ans. 1. The Antecedent is false 2. The Consequence is naught A number of private Christians wanting all official Authority so might lay on Synodical burthens binding materially if this be no Church-power 2. They are called the Decrees of Apostles and Elders Act. 16. 4. written and concluded Act. 21. 25. Saith Iames Act. 15. 22. It seemed good to the Apostles and Elders with the whole Church to send chosen men Now whether Church note the Apostles Elders and Brethren or the multitude of believers onely or the Church of Ierusalem made up of both the Decrees must come from Church-power governing teaching uniting and removing a Schism Though it were no power of jurisdiction yet here is a Church-power above a Church except it be said that so many pastors of the same or of divers Churches or so many private Christians commissionated from no Churches made the Synod Act. 15. and Synodically said It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us But this shall no more import the promised presence of Christ to such as are convened in his Name Mat. 18. 19. 20. 28. 19 20 21. Ioh. 2. 21. than if so many private Christians had been convened and so may such of a sister-Church remove all Schisms and a Synod shall be nothing at all 10. If Christ build the power of binding loosing gaining upon brotherhood Mat. 18. If thy brother offend c. then as far as brotherhood goes if I possibly can converse with him and may be offended or edified by him so far must the power of jurisdiction be extended because these two The gaining of a brother 2. The safety of the Church by edifying of others and removing of scandals are intended by Christ. Mat. 18. but brotherhood is without the bounds of the congregation whereof I am a member Rom. 16 14. Salute the brethren that are with them 1 Cor. 16. 20. All the brethâ—en salute you These were brethren of other congregations 2. If there be no Church-tye upon me to gain any but those of mine own congregation then 1. There may be communion of Saints onely within the same congregation and no communion of Churches what Scripture is for this 3. It must be the will of Christ that we bestow no Church-rebukes upon other Churches which must be contrary 1. To Christian love to save others 2. Contrary to zeal for the Lords glory 3. Spreading the Gospel 4. Desire to remove Scandals 5. To be made all things to all men to save some 6. To serve one another in love 7. To promote the common interest of the whole catholick Body of Christ. 8. It s against our praying for the Church and that all Israel may be saved 9. Against the Doctrine of our Brethren who say That Churches ought to rebuke exhort warn comfort Churches 10. It s against the communion of Spiritual priviledges of one Head and Saviour one Covenant one God one Faith c. It s not enough to say We are the same Body entitativè for that entitative Body without this congregation is either visible or invisible if visible then members of divers congregations are of the same visible body and to say that other congregations are not as visible as that whereof I am a member to me and others about is to deny twice three to be six for one Christ one Faith one Profession the same seals are as visible in a Church within few paces to me as in the Church whereof I am a member to say it is invisible is to speak against sense CHAP. VII Of a Church in an Island MR. H. If a Church in an Island may dispense all Censures and all Ordinances then every congregation may But such a Church may For 1. it is a City and a little Kingdome of Christ. 2. The essential notes of a visible Church agree to it Ans. The consequence from a broken arm to a whole arm is not good or because Iames the day before he be beheaded in strong prison cannot discharge all Christian duties to brethren and to neighbour Churches therefore he is not actu primo a Christian. A Church in an Island is not actually associated with other Churches and so cannot in the full extent dispense all Ordinances of rebuking comforting neighbour Churches and of withdrawing communion from them because of the want of the object not because of defect in the subject I might retort the argument Therefore associated congregations cannot dispense all Ordinances of rebuking comforting c. But the latter is absurd 2. An homogeneal Church in an Island void of pastors and men able to teach cannot administer the Seals by Mr. H. his way 3. A Church so divided and not associated is imperfect and may remove scandals within it self but it follows not Ergo every associated Church may remove scandals within it self and without it self also independently and without any subordination to united powers of the associated congregations it follows not the notes of a visible Church agree to such a Church imperfectly except it be said That the same Church from its own intrinsecal and
internal independency can dispense censures it proves nothing but the independency here is extrinsecal and objective and so accidental and the affliction not the power of jurisdiction in this Church Mr. H. There be all the officers in such a Church in an Island and all the operations operari sequitur esse and the end is the same in both the perfecting of the Body Ans. There be neither all the Church-operations because there is no dispensing of pastoral acts censures Church rebukings Church-warnings to neighbour Churches nor is there the same adequate end which is the perfecting of the visible body round about as far as may be which is the complete end of an associated Church the perfecting of one single congregation is a mangled and imperfect end Mr. H. 3 Ground Where there is an office or power appointed of God there needs no other power but the office to authorize the work Ans. There is nothing more false Every pastor hath a power to preach but there is need of a call of God to preach to Macedonia not to Bithynia Acts 16. There is need of a call to preach fixedly to this not to this flock and to ossociated Churches 2. How is it proved its but begged that there is a power independent in an associated congregation Mr. H. If the power be the same and the end the same the power must be vain if it be not put forth to the end the power and institution of Christ should be wronged if it should be hindred in attaining its end Ans. This is also a false ground Power of admonishing of rebuking of preaching is not wronged when the object to wit neighbouring Churches are not and the Lord cannot wrong his own institution It s a carnal reason to say an institution is in vain a power when they are not put forth in all possible acts Steven is stoned Iames is beheaded Paul imprisoned the Church scattered that they cannot by a physical impossibility meet to remember the Lords death preach the Gospel dispense censures is therefore the power given by Christ to do all these in vain Mr. H. Neighbourhood of other Churches is but a separable adjunct it can adde nothing to the constitution and so to the operation of the Church for death and dissentions may take away some Churches and may nullifie them Ans. This is for me Neighbour Churches are extrinsecal to the nature of a Church in an Island Ergo the Church in the Island hath a ministerial and official power actu primo to rule and joyntly edifie the neighbour Churches if they be If any say Evah was accidental to the nature and to the operations of Adam will it hence follow a power of procreating children is accidental also to Adam no more does it follow from the notexistence of neighbouring Churches that the Church in the Island hath no power to edifie and joyntly rule those nighbouring Churches its poor Logick because the object is not to remove the power Such a man is in a dark dungeon Ergo he hath no visive faculty and because light and colours adde nothing to the visive faculty or to its nature and essence Ergo if light and colours be removed the visive faculty is removed So associated Churches are accidental to the Church in an Island Ergo that Church is deprived of all politick power to govern associated Churches if they were it follows not Mr. H. Suppose a Church be gathered in a wilderness any latter Church planted beside it cannot binder nor abridge the liberty power authority and operations that all are from Christ and when the same intrinsecal power of constitution according to God remains unaltered the operations remain the same Ans. 1. A Church or Churches added do not hinder or abridge nor bring any privative power but the added Churches bring a perfecting helping and cumulative power to perfect objectively in complete operations the former Church in the Island in things of common concernment in which hoth that Wilderness-Church and the added Churches must be either edified or scandalized 2. When the same intrinsecal power remains unaltered the operations may be altered to the better and perfected Mr. H. deviseth much Logick of his own When the visive faculty of a man brought out of a dungeon who could not see the day-light seeth now should the operations remain the same when he is brought forth Ergo as he saw not before so he sees not now Mr. H. If it be said the Church in an Island should submit to a combination of Churches as well as combine as members of a congregation Ans. 1. This is to beg the question 2. Suppose they will not submit then thâ— other Churches cannot coÌ„mand that no more than a particular congregation can coÌ„mand me to be a member 3. They ought not so to combine as to prejudice the operations of that power they have received of Christ and there is no warrant of Christ to hinder the operations of a Pastor or ruling Elder more in one act of his office than another Ans. The contrary is a begging of the question For 1. The Church in an Island should submit to the counsel and advice of new added Churches as to the Lords Word by Mr. H. his grant Ergo a new addition of Churches as an addition doth help and not hinder the power 2. The addition of a new power of jurisdiction to the power that was in the Wilderness-church and that in matters of common edification as in dogmatick points by grant of Adversaries is no prejudging â—xcept they over-vote in a corrupt way the Wilderness-church And we say Christ never gave any power of erring or male-administration 3. The adding of 50 members to a Wilderness-church consisting of 25 shall have the same inconvenience for the Wilderness-church is to submit to these added members if added according to God as we suppose as to as lawful a Church-judicature as the Wilderness-church was before the addition But what if they will not submit Let Mr. H. see to that I should think by Mr. H. his grounds they ought to submit for they are added according to the Rule of Christ and by Mr. H. his grounds they ought not to submit which is a contradiction For 1. The power of the wilderness-Wilderness-church the authority within themselves offices officers were before complete were all from Christ. Ergo the operations should be the same and they should vote and conclude as they did before without the addition of 50 members 2. Those 50 added are separable adjuncts to the constitution and nature and so to the operations of the Wilderness-church For by Mr. H. the Wilderness-church being of 25 members was complete in essence and operations before the addition of 50 members 3. The 50 members over-vote and nullifie the righteous preceeding of the poor holy Wilderness-church of 25. Ergo here the power of a single congregation in the Island and the Wilderness must be over-turned by these three Arguments
may excommunicate all officers and whereas he so much contends for the signification of the word Church Let him answer what is meant there 1 Cor. 11. 16. If any man seem to be contentious we have no such custom neither the Churches of Christ. If the meaning be that the congregations meeting in the same place contend not among themselves what if they so should do who should right them by our Brethrens way and if that be the Church that meets in one place onely when shall the Church Catholick which Christ loved and gave himself for meet not until the day of Judgement and did the Brethren testifie of the charity of Gaius 2 Ioh. 16 before the Church was that in the convened together congregation or was it not before the men of the Church And 1 Cor. 11. When ye 〈◊〉 together to the Church Was not this to the meeting of men and women except women be debarred from the Lords Supper And when Saul made havock of the Church he must persecute only the binding and loosing Church but the Scripture saith he persecuted both men and women Act. 8. 3. 9. 2. Mr. H. Arg 11. The Church which the Plaintiff must tell is to admonish publickly the offender But this is the Church of Elders 1. Thes 5. 12. 13. 1 Tim. 5. 20. Luk. 10. 16. for they onely are to receive publick complaints Tit. 1. 13. 1 Tim. 5. 19. 2 Tim. 4. 2. Ans. Complaints are to be given to the Elders that they may prepare them for the congregation and lend the action Tâ—â—â—efore the incestuous Corinthian 〈◊〉 said to be râ—… of many and so judged of many not by the judgement only of discration for so they might judge these that were without but legally Ans. Mr. H. answers not one word of Scripture for telling the complaints to the Elders Christ saith Tell the Church that is tell all the visible Saints say our Brethren 2. That the incestuous Corinthian was rebuked legally of many that is of the Elders and Brethren or Male-Church only that is said not proved If we speak of judging by the judgement of discretion he was rebuked of Elders Brethren Women aged Children Servants for it concerned them in conscience to have knowledge of it and to yield to withdraw from him and to forgive him upon his repentance to joyn with him else their obedience must be blind 2. The minor is false 1. For though they judge Heathen with the judgement of discretion it follows not that therefore Brethren Women aged Children and Servants should not also judge an excommunicate person by the same judgement 2. The probation is faulty for I appeal to the conscience of our Brethren whether there be not sundry kinds of judgement of discretion and whether Church-members have not one kind of judgement of discretion toward the excommunicate man who is now under a medicinal Church-cure and another judgement of discretion toward them that are without and were never members Mr. H. to Mr. R. his twelfth Argument It hath received an 〈◊〉 out of a mistake because neither women alone nor children will make a Church nor have any publick power put into their hands for that purpose Ans. I never said in any Argument that women and children there alone maâ—e a Church nor spake I of womens ruling there But yet I say women children of years of discretion servaâ—â—s being the Lords freemen and professing the faith Arg. 1. The essential parts and largest part of the Congregationâ—… Church of Believers professing the faith of Peter builded upon the rock Mat. 18. â—â—â—ting every Lords day to partake of all the Ordinances and therefore if the Church Mat. 16. signifie such a Church 〈◊〉 â—hat which you say women and such children and servants must especially be understood as parts thereof under the name of the Church tell the Church and if so the Church to which we complain doth not bind and loose by your own grant 2. What ground is there in the Word that the Brethren alone because men should only be mooned by the name of the instituted Church in the Gospel or the 〈◊〉 Church of Believers partakers of all the ordinances excluding women and such children and servants since there 〈◊〉 neither made nor female bound nor free to be regarded in the condtion of believing visible Saints Gal. 3. 28. 〈◊〉 9. 14. 1 Cor. 7. 21 22. So is not this very like to the respect of persons condemned by the Apostle Iâ—… ch 2 3 4 5. when brethren because of their sex and heads of families must be the only Church of believers built upon the rock the Body of Christ the Kingdom of Christ the Redeemed of God partakers of all the precious ordinances and the only visible Church above all the officers women children servants 3. Nor hath such a Church of only few any such power put in their hand and so to say because it is said Tell the Church except Mr. H. prove them to be the governing Church above the Officers is to beg the question for Mr. Cotton and Mr. Burroughs say without officers the brethren can exercise nâ— jurisdiction no excommunication one of the highest acts of rude in the Church they have nothing without the officers saith Mr. Burroughs but brotherly admonition no jurisdiction And Mr. H. is to give a parallel place in old and new Testament if he hear not the Church id est the male-Church of Brethren let him be cast out Mr. H. Arg. 13. Not only the Church must convene to worship God in Spirit and Truth but that they bind and loose by the Pastoral Spirit of Paul and officers in their convention Ans. The Church met hath power to execute all acts of discipline as well as doctrine 2. The Church of Corinth is blamed because without the knowledge of Paul or his authority as they ought to have done they did not excommunicate the incestuous person only for their encouragement he expresseth his consent and the concurrence of his spirit Ans. That the Church of Believers without the pastoral spirit and authority of Paul or any other officer and excluding the tacit consent of women children of age and believing servants could exercise all acts of Discipline and Doctrine that is of pastoral preaching destroyes Mr. H. his principles for who can preach but sent Pastors Rom. 10. 14. not unofficed brethren And as to the point of Jurisdiction Mr. Cotton and Mr. Burroughs with me deny it and Mr. H. nakedly saith it That the Church of Corinth was rebuked for not excommunicating the man is true But 1. what means he by the Church rebuked 1. All that were rebuked must be the Church can Mr. H. deny but women children of years servants were rebuked as those who were puffed up and mourned not ver 1 2. 2. And as those who were a part and the largest part of the lump that is of the body of the people in danger to be leavened with that
scandal ver 6. 3. As those who were to keep the feast Christ being sacrificed for them With sincerity ver 8. 4. As those who should not familiarly converse with scandalous fornicators ver 11. but all of them were to judge and put away the wicked person from among them ver 13. in a way suitable to their place that is the officers with Pauls Spirit or a pastoral authority like unto it the brethren women children of age and servants professing the faith in their way by consenting and by the judgement of discretion so far as belonged to their practise in withdrawing from the delinquent 2. Not did I deny that the Church of Corinth should have excommunicated the man before Paul wrote to them but that they should have done it without Pauls knowledge is onely said not proved and that any save officers and such as were indued with such a pastoral spirit as was in Paul could have done it is onely asserted by Mr. H. his sole word and this answer insinuates that the onely male-Church did it and they needed not any pastoral spirit onely Paul addeth ex superabundanti his encouraging consent whereas the work might have been done without officers by this new male-jurisdiction which is contradicted by Mr. Cotton and not owned by the Scripture LIB III. CHAP. I. Of the first subject of Ecclesiastick Power Of the delegated Power of the Church THere is a double Authority one Supreme and Monarchical onely in Christ and another Subordinate and Delegate which 〈◊〉 a Right given by Commission from Christ to fit personâ— to act iâ— his House according to his order By Right is meant jus or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which according to God certain persons possess in their external administrations issuing from such special relations unto which they are called by Christ. 2. It s given to 〈◊〉 persons who are capable to receive this power not to women children â—ad-men c. Therefore let the Reader take notice of that as not worthy to be considered If power be in the Church of believers then women and children may exercise it 〈◊〉 Mr. Ball Mr. R. for they are not fit persons appointed by Christ to manage this power Lastly they must act according to Gods order The whole Church is an Army terrible with Banners but the parts do fight in their own order The power is in the whole firstly but each part knows his rank the officers in their part order and manner the members in theirs The whole acts some things immediately some things mediately Ans. A Monaâ—chical power in Christ we know and authority delegate of Jurisdiction in the Ambassadors and Officers who are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Tim. 5. 17. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Thess. 5. 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heb. 13. 17. Rulers we know but that the people or Church of believers especially separated from officers are called Rulers or indued with any delegate power over we know not whom we reade not in Scripture 2. By the Keyes he must mean both the Keyes of Knowledge and of Jurisdiction But what Scripture gives the pastoral Key to unofficed Brethren I do not know a right given to fit persons without any mentioning of the first subject the Church of confederate Saints as Mr. H. which includes women children of age servants for these are fit persons to be members of the Church built on the Rock and of the Church of Believers Ergo they are fit persons and as fit some of them to wit children of years of discretion and believing servants as the Brethren for neither Sex nor want of understanding nor distemper of judgement the three causes of unfitness owned by Mr. H. can render them more uncapable than the brethren yea the brethren being often unlettered Tradesmen and many of them dull and rude though believers are most unfit persons to judge of sound and unsound Doctrine and of controverted points whether the Pastors teach perverse things Acts 20. 29. hold the doctrine of Balaam Rev. 2. 13. or not and yet by Mr. H. they are the onely and none but they are to judge and try the learning ability of Pastors unsoundness in Socinian Antinomian Popish Arminian c. Tenets though they know no more the Tongues Arts nor Sciences than some Priests who can scarce reade the Mass-book in Latine nor understand the Languge thereof and they onely have power to depose them all for Ignorance and Heresie 2. As for women they are redeemed built on the Rock and have a voice tacit or no let Mr. Hooker say 1. To choose or refuse Officers 1. They are of the sheep that can discern the voice of Christ in sent Pastors Joh. 9 and this is Mr. H. his argument to prove that the people should call their own pastors as hereafttr he saith 2. Women must have a vote in admission of members which Mr. H. calls potestatem judicii a power of judging for they are not to own as Church members and to rehuke and tell the Church and to gain brethren and sisters blindly they by the judgement of discretion if not by more according to Mr. H. must have some hand in this Women are to try by the judgement of discretion the spirits of Teachers whether Antichristian or not whether they be of God or no and to hold what is good as men 1 Ioh. 4. 1. 1 Thess. 5. 21. Ergo they must try both men and doctrines and must as was said withdraw from the unsound and scandalous therefore what Mr. Ball and Mr. R. say touching them must be considered If the power be in the whole Church firstly then must the power of the Keyes be in all the members firstly also if Logick have place and if it be in all then it s in women How came it to women shew the Scripture And whereas Mr. H. saith The whole Church is terrible as an Army with Banners it saith the Church ruling and conquering by the Keyes both of Knowledge and Iurisdiction is made up of ruled commanders and ruled souldiers not of a number of onely brethren and souldiery acts of ruling for of the Church that beareth the Keyes Mr. H. must now speak in women Mr. R. would know for that terribleness is in acts of Discipline not a little if all be terrible then also women Your homogeneous Church which onely and none but they by Mr. H. his doctrine may lift a Banner against all the officers and depose and excommunicate them every man But Mr. Cotton saith to this What haste brother Mr. H Mr. H. This power is either a power of many when combined and this is either a power Of judging judicii or of donation Or its power in one a power of Office The power of judgement the whole hath and doth use in admissions and excommunication the same powâ—r that takes in must cast out Ans. The distinction of power of Office or Order in one who is a Pastor and of
Jurisdiction in many in a Presbytery is warranted by Scripture But for the power of judging and of giving of power potest as donationis to others to preach and administer the seals in the people who have no power themselves it hath neither the countenance of Scripture nor Reason and is but a device of Merellius holden by Mr. H. Calvin saith The thing before judged was cleared to the people Pet. Martyr Pareus and others say well Excommunication would not be done nisi plebe consentiente without the consent of the people which includes women and servants over whose consciences faith and practise Rulers are not to domineer more than over the consciences of men Cyprian by the plebs and universa fraternitas the people and fraternity understands the whole redeemed flock men and women It s true Cyprian threatens some Presbyters that if they go on in their scandalous way they should give an account to the people apud plebem universalem and writes to some that desired to be reconciled to the Church of Carthage All things shall be examined you the people being present But judging there as frequently with Cyprian is no authoritative judging given to the people He who answers to Pamelius in his learned Annotations gives no more to the people but the knowledge of Church-affairs About Anno 70. as Eusebius saith Simeon the son of Cleophas is chosen in the room of Iames all the disciples consenting The Council of Carthage Anno 420. Let not a Bishop ordain any Clergy-man without an Assembly of the Clergy and let him seek the peoples consent connivance and testimony So was Cornelius made Bishop of Rome by the Authority of God and of the Clergy and by the suffrages of the people Our Divines Bucerus Calvin Bucanus Tilenus Beza Virttut give consenting and in some cases correcting not judicial power sure but which is great enough a Negative consent for eschewing of a Schism And the Professors of Leyden Urfine Pareus Iunius give the people a vote a consent in Excommunication and this cannot exclude women who are offended when the whole Church is offended The times of Ambrose did witness more pride in the Clergie who began to do all without the people Chemnitius Daneus the Confession of Bohemià of Helvetia the Synod of Middleburgh the Synod of Tylleburgh in Nassovia Anno 1582. teach That the whole Church with consent of all did excommunicate but the judging Authority is in the Eldership Mr. H. The power of election is especially to be attended by the end as a corporation hath power to choose a Major and to give him power 3. The safety of the whole is to be attended and that is to submit one to another and be rebuked one by another Ans. Papists prove the Pope and Prelats from such have their warrant peoples choosing of their Pastor is from the rule of the Word not from civil corporation from which it differs 1. The people makes one of no King to be a King and does not onely choose him 2 Chron. 29 22. the people kinged Solomon Sâ—ul 1 Sam. 11. 15. David 1 Chron. 12. 38. but the choice of the people doth not make an officer but the laying on of the hands or ordination of the Presbytery doth that 1 Tim. 4. 14. 2 Tim. 2. 2. Tit. 1. 5. Act. 6. 6. 2. The Corporation civil may limit the Major in regard of time for a year and no longer 2. they may make him half a Tyrant a Dictator and absolute or give him less power that he shall rule none but with the consent of 12 Assâ—ssors but the people may not make him a Pastor for a year and then lay him aside for no fault as a Major is unofficed nor may they limit him so as he shall not preach in season and out of season but by the consent of 12 men 3. The Corporation may erect it self in a Kingdome or Commonwealth and may create Consuls Dictators Praetors Tribunos Plebis c. as may most serve for the safety and peace of this State but the Church may bring in no new officers but those appointed by Christ nor may they alter the government and metamorphose it into another than that which is according to the pattern shewed in the Mount 4. Women and servants have no vote in choosing or creating Rulers but since they are to be fed and this concerns their conscience it is not so here in the Church though men may domineer over the civil power of women yet not over their faith If some acts were to be performed by a King or Major without the skill knowledge of counsellors and of which the counsellors are as ignorant as the Church of believers ordinarily are of Tongues and Controversies it might well be said that the Wisdome of God never appointed such counsellors and for such an end as to appoint such men to be counsellors and such to create Pastors and therefore it s a naughty Argument taken from a Civil Corporation and Popish From a worldly Monarchy Papists prove their Monarchy in the Church Yea this Argument proves 1. That Pastors as Pastors have no warrant by any Institution of Christ to try ordain and lay on hands upon Pastors for 1. that which is to be done according to Divine Iâ—stitution by a company of visible believers to whom Christ hath committed the power of the Keyes as to the first and prime subject before officers be created that cannot be done by officers as having the power of these Keys 2. So visible saints and women as well yea and by better right might appoint Elders i. e. chuse and elect them in every City then Titus could do yea Tit. 1. 5. 〈◊〉 Tim. 〈◊〉 22. 〈◊〉 bâ—tter right then Timothy as for the place Eph. 5. 21. whâ—â—h Mr. H. had no leisure to cite every one submit unto another what Logick is here is every Womaâ— a Church to another for it is not spoken of Church-subjâ—ction but as Ambrose of the subjection of humility Mr. R Boide Zanchius of tâ—e subjection in families and Common-wealths as of the Wife to the Husband the Children to the Parents of the subjection of Lâ—ve as Calvin and Beza Hieronymus poniâ— generalâ— principium politiae Christiana So Cajâ—tan Paul Baines saith it is the submission of humility which the highest owe to the lowest the husband to the wife is not every woman the daughter to submit to the mother is not this a busing of Scripture may not the father the son be in divers congregations and though it were meant of Church subjection owe not I Church-subjection to these of another congregation as to these of my own and should Mr. H. limit the sense of the Holy Ghost to one single congregation i. e. submit only to these of your own congregation Mr. H. The power of rebuking pertains to all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to rebuke Mat. 18. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to judge 1
confederate Saints as to the first subject thereof it is no new opinion 2. I oppose Fathers to Fathers 3. If it be in the peoples power to hinder excommunication to take place then the Elders only have not a power given them of Christ to manage this but this is against the wisdom of Christ to ordain means that cannot attain the end which must be if the people may â—inder it Ans. If man be the first and proper subject of capacity to laugh then must all contained under this subject Peter Annâ— be capable to laugh but women servants aged children are as properly the confederate and inchurched Saints by Mr. H. his words as men Cyprian and most of the Fathers take in the people with the Rulers in the exercise of censures by way of consent but without vanity I say never Fathers Greek or or Latine Councels old or late Doctors Schoolmen Prote â—ant Papist or any Divine till of late the Socinians and now the brethren of the Congregational way and the Separatists and Anabaptiâ—â—s taught that the Church of believers of a single congregation hath formally a power of jurisdiction in them to make and unmake officers to call and excommunicate them But you shall find all the principles and grounds of this new way 〈◊〉 the Arminian Authors and Socinians cited in the Margin and Mr. H. never laboured to vindicate their way from these impure Sects For 1. They deny the notes of the visible Church as the brethren do against the reformed Churches 2. They deny the word Church either Mat. 18. or elsewhere to signifie any thing but Believers never Rulers only 3. They deny the definition of a visible Church from a profession and require reality of holiness at least some of them as our brethren with Anabaptists do 4. Episcopius maintains separation 5. They deny all jurisdiction and necessity of lawful Synods as our Brethren do 6. All Churches to them are visible congregations which meet in one place to hear the Word so our brethren Churches of Câ— in new England c. 1. sect 1. par 1 2. and Mr H. 7. Our brethren reject ordination by the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery and all juridical mission by officers of associate Churches and teach that aptness to teach and holiness of live is sufficient for a call so the people desire them or chuse them and so do also the Arminians and Socinians 8. Thâ—â— the whole Church id est the Brethren and the Officers by accident being only separable adjuncts of the Church have a juridical power of excommunication so Socinians acknowledge all the godly and believers to be the visible Church though scattered all the world over and reject the authority of all visible Churches and Councels deny all juridical calling and ordination so that it is clear that they judge the visible professors and people to be the visible Church which governs and excommunicates which is the mind of Mr. Hooker Mr. H. And the brethren and 9. some Socinians as Nicolaides and others hold that wicked men by no law of God are to be suffered in the visible Church and they are not there Iure Mr. H. offends that unregenerated men when known to be such are to be suffered to be there or that the ordinances should be dispenced to them which to be is against 1. The patience and meekness of Christ I speak of the known non-regenerated that are not scandalous and so against the patience and meekness required in his servants and Church in order to his end 2. Against the institution of the visible Church the schoole of Christ no master ought to exclude out of the school a child who though dull of learning yet is well disposed and keepes the laws of order and discipline for it is ordained â—o fine that the non-regenerate may be effectually called 3. None should be excommunicated but these who are extremely scandalous or obstinate and so none are to be excommunicated for simple non-regeneration which can appear only to be non-regeneration to some regenerate only Ps. 36. 1. and not to them infallibly 4. By the command of Christ and so jure Iohn Baptist baptized huge multitudes of whom he had no assurance that they were regenerate when by the spirit of God he names them a generation of Vipers and rebukes them as Hypocrites who thought it holiness enough to be the carnally born sons of Abraham Mat. 3. 10. I do not speak this to lay any odium upon the brethren as if they loved the wayes of Arminians and Socinians but upon a twofold account 1. Because Mr. H. passes all what I said of this as not worthy the answering though indeed to speak or comply in opinions with enemies to Christ his redemption satisfaction and free grace is not overly to be looked on especially in a new frame of government spiritual in the house of God 2. Because the Presbytery is called Antichristian prelatical formal by our brethren I love not high appeals judging that they often fail against the third command as for toleration maintained by Socinians and Arminians I impute it not to Mr. H. or the brethren of N. E. But there be not many to my knowledge I say no further for the congregatonal way but they are for toleration in non-fundamentals and how few fundamentals there be possibly 2. What they are who can define so that this way seems to me no less new then other sinful ways of Arminians and Socinians and what mischiefe toleration brings forth in Britain also Lastly we hold that censures should not be dispenced against the peoples mind for as Augustine saith the censure shall not edifie if most of the people be infected with the same scandal and if the people shall not in their practices yield it may breed a separation and a schism But it is a naughty consequence if the people may hinder excommunication then it is no ordinance of God which is executed without the peoples judicial power this follows not except the people had a Ius a judicial power from Christ to hinder excommunication which they have not yea and though they had a judicial power yet if they use it not right but abuse that judicial power suppose they had it it follows not Ergo excommunication is not an ordinance of God For 1. The Elders may abuse their power and so hinder excommunication and without them saith Mr. Cotton no act of ruling and excommunicating can be shall therefore excommunication be no ordinance persecutors do hinder the preaching of the Gospel shall the preaching of the Gospel for that be no ordinance of God but the people lawfully may withdraw their consent and then there shall be no excommunication This yet proves not If the peoples power lawfully used hinder undue excommunication then the Elders onely have not power For the peoples power lawfully used hindered King Saul to put Ionathan to death and hindered all the Judges from doing
the same Ergo King Saul and the Judges only have not judicial power of life and death but the people have it also it follows not yea but saith he that Christ shall appoint a means of reformation and purging the Church that in an ordinary course shall not attain the end is deeply prejudicial to the faithfulness wisdom and power of Christ any manner of way this is an argument carnall and humane 1. Where hath Christ interposed his faithfulness and wisdom that if officers and brethren make use of the judicial power he hath given to them the Church shall be actually purged is not this the question 2. Where hath he promised a reformed Church in case these who have power to reform stand in the way shall Christs wisdome be accused or the Gospel reproched because either men hinder it to be preached or these to whom it is preached believe it not or does the faithfulness of God fail though all men are lyars Rom. 3. Is his wisedom darkned though all become vain and foolish in their imaginations yea if women servants children of age refuse to withdraw from the excommunicate the censure cannot edifie they have not for that a judicial power to excommunicate by Mr. H. his way Mr. H. The keys of the kingdom by way of Metaphor signifies all that ministerial power by Christ dispenced and from Christ received whereby all the affairs of his house in point of opening to such as stoop to him and of shutting to such as will not come under his authority are acted according to his mind Ans. Learned Mr. Wilson Mr. Liegh Beza Beda Chrysostome Augustine Ierom Cyprian tell us that the keys noteth ministerial power never since Learning and Tongues were in the world given to unofficed and private men to exercise and make use of them but to the oeconomus Master-houshold or steward Cyprian and the learned Annotator who answers Pamelius make Stantes distinguished from these who fell a part of the Church because they are not utterly to be debarred ut prophani canes as prophane ab omni rerum Ecclesiasticarum cognitione but never indued with juridical power as the Rulers to these Mr. H answers nothing onely all such means saith he as are sufficient private or publick to open and shut Heaven may be called the keys All means of promises and threatnings in the mouths of women Abigail and others of ged children and servants yea and of these of another congregation are sure means of the word for opening and shutting Heaven shall these women and children and servants for that bear the keys of the Kingdom of God Mr. H. The key of Royalty is only in Christ the key of charity in the hand of all believers who out of Christian love lend some help but have no power judicial to proceed There is the Key of subordinate power which only such and all such have as are combined in a special corporation and come under the external government of the Scepter of Christ such have good law to proceed against such as will not stoop to the rule Ans. 1. What the Brethren have more then the key of charity to lend help out of love is the debate sure if women be not excluded from the Law of Love this key cannot be taken from them 2. If only such and all such omne solum as are combined in a speciall corporation have the key of subordinate power this power essentially and universally must agree to the so combined body But women aged children servants are especially combined by the Church-covenant as is easie to prove from Mr. H. quod convenit omni soli convenit reciprocè universaliter Ergo only the combined Church-members and all the Church-members so women must excommunicate and all for them then the officers as members combined not as officers do excommunicate I quit all Logick if this can be eluded Now Mr. H. sayes that confederate Saints all and onely have the keys Mr. H. Pro. 3. The keys of subordinate power are seated firstly in the Church and by vertue of the Church they are communicated to any that in any measure or manner share therein heat to first in the fire as its proper subject the faculty of sense belongs first to the sensitive soul c. Ans. The power of the keys belongs to the Church of Believers of men and women as the first virtual subject 2. To the rulers and guides as to the formal subject as heat is in the fire so every part of the fire is formally hot as a part of the first formal subject as iron is hot by participation by the fire But by this Mr. H. must say all the parts of the Churches of Believers are endued with this power of binding and loosing as the partial and incomplete subject So yetmust women children and servants be endued formally with the judicial power of the keys but this is false 3. The keys are in the whole in the exercise in the rulers formally by the judicial power inherent in them in the people men and women by consent not by any inherent formal power juridical 4. The keys belong to all rulers ruled men women masters servants parents children objectively and finaliter for the edification of the whole body and every part thereof Eph. 4. 11 12. 2 Cor. 10 8. Mr. H. Is suits not with right reason to cast some part of the power firstly upon the people some part upon the Rulers as though there were two first subjects of this power which the letter of the text gainsayeth to thee will I give not to them it were to speak daggers and contradictions to make but one first subject of the power and yet have others to share in this power is more wide from the mark Ans. Judge if it suits with reason which judicious and godly Mr. Cotton saith when the Church of a particular Congregation walketh together in the truth all the brethren of the Church are the first subject of Church liberty and the Elders thereof of church-Church-authority and both of them together are the first subject of all Church power needful to be exercised within themselves whether in Election Ordination or Censures of their own body They may distinguish between the power of the keyes and between Church power But it suits as little with reason to make two to wit Elders and Brethren the two first subjects or one complete first subject of Church power as to make them one complete first subject or two first subjects of the power of the keys Nor is it against reason that the body organick be the first virtual subject of the Keys and the same body be the first formal subject of both the Keys and of Church-power in the exercise the Rulers acting their way and the people their way as is said nor are there for that two subjects of power 2. The Argument by which Mr. H. proveth this is most feeble It is said to Peter
dissent so as it shall be no marriage In which case the Fraternity onely or male-Male-Church formally intrinsecally judgeth and may judge though there were no officers as the Maid may marry though Parents and Tutors were dead and the directive authority of the officers may be wanting as the directive authority of the Magistrate may be wanting 2. The officers cannot consent to a sinful sentence it s not their duty to sin nor can they dissent from a just sentence for then they might hinder the execution of a just sentence and the officers shall keep communion with a man whom the people excommunicates and that the people may erre is too well known in the condemning of Ieremiah of Christ and of others And whereas he saith The dissenting shall blemish the wisdome of God it s answered already It blemishes our folly but not his wisdome when people are divided from Rulers and Rulers from people 3. There is a midst between consenting to an unjust sentence and a dissenting from a just sentence to wit a consenting by the judgement of discretion tacitly to a just sentence in which there is a causality popular nor judicial nor juridical coming from the inherent power of the Keyes Mr. H. Arg. 4. It crosseth the rule of righteous proceeding to understand the Church Mat. 18. of the Elders onely Suppose three Elders in a Church all have been convinced before witnesses in private of an offence they will not hear the offended brethren must tell the Church that is they complain to these three Elders of these three Elders and make the guilty both judge and party in their own cause 2. Suppose of these three two be offenders the grieved party must tell the third and so one shall be the Church Ans. This inconvenience follows clear from the hampering of all power of the Keyes within one single congregation in the midst of six congregations round about 2. The Book of Discipline of New England saith A Church Independent may consist of four officers and three brethren three brethren are offenders if they cannot in this case tell the Elders onely for they are not the Church Mat. 18. saith Mr. Hooker Ergo the three offending brethren must complain to the three offending brethren and make themselves both Judge and party therefore the Argument necessitates us to tell the Elders of associate Churches Mr. H. Arg. 5. If the power of judgement be in Rulers then it is either in some or one to wit Peter and to hâ—m derived from the rest and that is Popery or it is in them all equally for those that are equal in commission are equal in power but that is not for the teaching Elders are in degree and also in power superiour to the ruling Elder Ans. The issue of this Argument is to strip the officers naked of all power of Rule and Mr. H. must take it away off his own way as well as off ours 2. The teaching Elders are worthy of double honour above the ruling Elder 1 Tim. 5. 17. for they speak to us the word of the Lord Hebrews 13. 7. and are the Ambassadors of God who in Christs stead beseech us to be reconciled to God 2 Cor. 5. 20. Their feet are pleasant because of their message and in this have power above ruling Elders and those who serve Tables Act. 6. and above the brethren and Church as being sent of God with pastoral power not onely vi materiae by vertue of their commands but as in an Epistle is spoken judiciously to this purpose by Mr. Tho. Goodwyn and Mr. Philip Nye by reason of their Ministerial Authority Now how they can be equal in commission of judging to the people is the question for as the woman is independent in regard of intrinsecal power of consenting or dissenting in point of marriage the Parents directive power of commanding extrinsecal as the judicious Prefacers say so the Fraternity is the onely judging society by them Yea Mr. H. saith The Elders are superiour to the fraternity or brethren I would he had said to the sisters also in office rule act and exercise and in managing the censures are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 overseers by Hen. 13. 17. How are leaders and overseers in the same managing of censures equal in power and not above those whom they lead and oversee yea to whom they are to yield obedience as Mr. H. cites to that purpose the place Heb. 13. 17. are Parents equal in power who do command the Virgin whose it is to consent to the marriage 3. Let the godly Reader consider whether the Brethren though believers yet ignorant of the mystery of Balaams doctrine and of Iezobils teaching Rev. 2. and of the learning and qualification of pastors and of the deep and subtile Heresies for which pastors must be cast out are by the Word of the Lord equal in judicial power and trying of Doctors and Pastors with the Rulers whose office it is to know more of the minde of God than Brethren and whether are they by Divine Institution so Mr. H. If Rulers alone have power to excommunicate by Mat. 18. then may three Elders excommunicate 400 or 500 brethren and if so Rulers should not onely censure the fraternity but destroy themselves for where no flock is but all are excommunicated there are no shepherds Besides as Ames saith a body cannot be cast out of it self Ans. 1. Observe in all these six Arguments there is not one jot of Scripture but the one Magna Charta of Mat. 18. where yet Mr. H. will not stand to the signification of the word Church 2 They are not there alone to excommunicate the Church of believers without the consent of the Church and we judge it no way of Christ to excommunicate not 400 onely but six thousands who all made one congregation of Ierusalem say our Brethren But Mr. Cotton saith well in the case of the defection of a congregation to blasphemy and persecution and no help by a Synod is to be hoped for the Elders may withdraw and separate disciples from them and carry away the Ordinances with them and denounce judgement against them 3. D. Ames whose name is savoury in the Church of Christ saith But if a Church should be excommunicated then a body having and retaining its essence should be cast out of it self No Judge can properly punish himself but the Presbytery and Synod may declare a Synagogue of Satan to be a Synagogue of Satan 4. It is against the meekness of Christ and not warranted by any Scriptures that faithful pastors that are pastors to the universal Church should be unpastored because this or that particular flock to which they were sent leave off to be the flock of Christ that is as much as because they are faithful in his house Christ will have them cast out of his house The argument will conclude That the Church excommunicating all the officers destroyeth it self Of this before also
Ans. If the Church congregational as congregational not as this or that congregation be built on the Rock then this or that congregation must of necessity be also built on the Rock If man as man be rational then so are all individual men Peter Iohn Anna if the congregational Church as such be built on the Rock then this or that congregation c. must be built on the Rock Quod conveni◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But this presently Mr. H. recals This or that visible Church may doth and will fail But this or that visible congregation partakes of the common nature of a congregational Church and what reason this Church more than this should fall off the Rock since the promise is made to the congregation in its common nature then of necessity the Church must have the promise upon some other account than as the congregation in its common nature Mr. H. Each particular congregation is complete and independent for the exercise of all acts and dispensations belonging to a congregation or Church without any reference to any other congregation because they are distinct species which firstly and equally participate of the nature of the genus or the general nature of the Church Ans. 1. Then are there no clamours raised against you by those who say It is most unjust that 10 or 30 or 40 should be an Independent Male Judicature as if others had no souls countable onely to Jesus Christ for their administration 2. By Mr. Cotton his true principles they are not independent within themselves to exercise all acts belonging to a congregation for Synods not onely have power to give light and counsel in matters of truth and practise but also to command and enjoyn the things to be believed and done 1. If then the Synod hath a share of the Keys the single congregation must be too narrow a first subject of the Keys especially when the Synod as the Synod hath the power of the Keys to command the Churches as the Churches and several congregations 2. So the necessity of being circumcised or not circumcised if we would be saved Act. 15. must belong to a congregation and to all the congregations of Antiâ—â—h of Ierusalem c. then the Lord Jesus hath not given a power independent to any single congregation to exercise all acts and all dispensations belonging to them for sure they cannot determine in a matter belonging to other Churches and more belonging to other Churches than to themselves because of the multitude of concerned Churches but they must no less impose upon the consciences of other Churches if the same seem good to the holy Ghost and to them onely otherwise it s a bastard determination then if they should determine it contrary to the knowledge of their own Church congregational and members thereof 2. Mr. H. takes the word Congregation and Church for all one against the Grammar of the holy Ghost who taketh the word Church even in the New Testament for the collection of believers agreeing in one Faith one common Râ—demâ—tion common Saviour common hope of Glory though they be 〈◊〉 a congregation that meets in one place Eph. 5 23 25 27 29. 1. 22. Col. 1 18. Hâ—b 12. 23. 3. The reason why they are independent in the exercise of all acts and dispâ—â—sations belonging to a Congâ—…gation or Church to wit because they are distinct species and Churches different in nature is most frâ—volous for beside that the reason is false except Christ the Head of one congregation be different in nature from the same Christ the Head of another congregation and their Faith Baptism Hope of their calling be different in nature whereas they are all one in nature in all the whole Catholick Body Eph. 4. 3 4 5 6 1 Tim. 4. 10. Eph. 5. 23 25 29. Iudo ver 9. 1 Cor. 10. 17. They are as distinct species and Churches different in nature in regard of pastoral preaching and parâ—aking of the same seals as the Brethren teach if any difference of this kinde be as they are different in nature in regard of censures and so as it is unlawful by their way to one of this congregation to submit to the forreign and extrinsecal Jurisdiction of other Churches as they call it so it s as unlawful to submit to pastoral preaching and the seals tendred by the forreign authority of other Churches because if the Head Christ and power juridical be peculiar to one congregation independently so must pastoral preaching and the seals be to the same Church and a member must be as much restricted to their own officers onely for acts of office since they are set over them by the holy Ghost as our Brethren say from Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5 2. Philip. 2. 25. as they are to hear Matth. 18. that Church onely in acts of Jurisdiction The Brethren are obliged to shew a difference or to yield to the Argument Mr. H. A particular congregation is species specialissima which hath in it the nature of the Churches in general and of the species or kindes of Churches are complete without the Classâ—s Ans. Let the congregation be complete as species specialissima in its kinde yet in extension of power it s not complete for we hold that Classis Synods Congregations differ in nature and that every one of them yea the whole integral Catholick visible Church are all species specialissima and Mr. R. grants they differ onely in more or less extension of power and therefore Jurisdiction is firstly in them all as the heat is firstly in the whole body of the fire not firstly in this or that quarter or portion of the Element CHAP. II. The Arguments of Mr. R. for the first Adequate and Catholick subject of the Keyes are vindicated from the unsatisfying replies of Mr. H. MR. H. The Apostles saith Mr. R. stand in the room of the whole Catholick ministerial guides when they revealed the Keyes Ans. The Apostles in that commission were extraordinary persons sent to all the world to lay the foundation of the Gospel by an Apostolick power and in this sense they have no successors nor stand in the room of any Ans. If the Apostles represent none in this sense Mat. 28. 19. Mark 16. 15. Iohn 20. 21. Go and teach c. whose sins ye remit c. Then none succeed the Apostles to teach baptize remit and retain sins Pastors then must do these without a commission from Christ or these ordinances must cease 2. Mat. 28. Iohn 20. he sends the Apostles and sayes behold I am with you to the end of the world in preaching and baptizing But the Apostles do not live to preach and baptize to the end of the world Ergo that ministerial presence of Christ must be promised to some represented by the Apostles So the English Divines Calvin Beza Diodati as Apostles gifted with power of working miracles c. they
shall not be the same spiritually politick body visible being of divers congregations contrary to Scripture expounded by Mr. H. and Mr. Cotton we being many are one body visible and visible of twenty congregations partaking of one bread and body of Christ. Now by this as a finger cut off Paul is not a finger cut off Iohn for Iohn hath all his ten fingers entire and Paul hath his nine fingers only So also if Thomas disobedient he cast out of only his own congregation he is never cast out of Church-right to Christ and ordinances in the rest of the congregations for excommunication by consequence is only a declaring by witnesses as Mr. H. saith pag. 242. that the man is cast out of his own congregation Now the declaring that Paul's finger is cut off is not a cutting off of his finger that is impossible Far less is it possible that the declaring that Paul's finger is cut off can be either a declaring that Peters finger is cut off or that that declaring is a cutting off of Paul's finger or a cutting off of Peters finger Therefore Peters being cast one of his own Church-right and Church only is no casting of him out of other Churches or real removing of his Church-right to ordinances in other Churches For that which was never really removed and Peter once had it must remain with Peter yet now Peter was never a member of any congregation but of one then membership to another congregation cannot be taken from him 4. A member is cast out as really scandalous his adultery obstinately continued in makes him be deprived of Christian fellowship with Brethren as Brethren Ergo he is deprived of the Christian fellowship of all Brethren For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 followeth upon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And 5. It is thus confirmed his visible scandal is a Church-offence to one of a Sister-congregation and is apt to bring a Church-contagion to these of another congregation who are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 one body with him at the Lords Table and therefore are they now to look on him as an Heathen But who put him in that state if he be not really and formally cast out of that body when his own Church excommunicates him 6. He that hears not the Church heares not Christ and he that despiseth any Pastor sent in the name of Christ despiseth Christ Mat. 10. 4. Luke 10. 16. Iohn 13. 20. Now if this stand good one that despiseth his own Pastor only and his own congregation only though he despise all the godly Prophets Pastors and soundest Churches on earth despiseth not Christ nor his Father that sent him nor is he first in foro Dei bound in Heaven and guilty before God nor deserves he to be excommunicate for he hath not failed against that He that despiseth you despiseth me For that is true only when any despiseth their own Pastor or their own congregation And if so then when one is cast out and judgeth an heathen for not hearing of his own Church he is not heathen in Heaven and in foro Dei as touching his communion with other Pastors and other congregations 7. Peter before he was excommunicated had a real right to the Lords Table in all Churches on earth and so a sort of membership and visible communion with all these Churches Now if by the act of excommunication in his own Church this right be not taken from him then must it be taken from him by all the Churches and so all the Churches must excommunicate when one excommunicates and by the like all must admit one into membership when one admits into membership Mr. H. The Sister Churches Mr. R. receive members of other Churches to communion by an intrinsecal Church power Ans. By an authoritative Church power we can enjoyn our own members to come to the seals or else censure them but we cannot so deal with others if it shall seem good to them to refuse Ans. This only follows that the congregation hath a larger Church power over their own members both to censure them if they come not and positively to admit them if they come but Mr. H. must confess that the congregation admits strangers of other congregations by a meer private pâ—wer and by no Church power which is gross Erastianisme and makes it arbitrary to one single Pastor to admit some to the communion as he pleaseth and some not 2. By no Church power is the Sacrament tendered to strangers of another congregation so may the Minister give this seal to a stranger in his chamber which is a private communion for there is no authoritative Church power required to give it to some Whereas Paul saith it is a priviledge of the Church coming together to eat the Lords Body 1 Cor. 11. 17 18 21. 1 Cor. 10. 17. 3. This Supper must be given to our own Church members by Church authority to strangers by no Church authority 4. It is by accident that the congregation cannot compel strangers to come to this seal for in Collegio the Elders of the congregation may joyntly with the rest of the Presbytery censure these of another flock who altogether refuse the seals 5. Mr. H. grants that a congregation excommunicates in the general nature of a congregation Well then the general nature discourseth in man and so doth a Church in an Island excommunicate Ergo that Church proceeding according to the rule of Christ casts the man formally out of all the congregations on earth Mr. H. addeth yea the neighbour Churches are saith Mr. R. to exercise the punishment of avoiding the excommunicate person as an heathen which follows from a power which is no wayes in them what conscience is here Ans. A good conscience if we may carry our selves to a scandalous mâ—n so dâ—clared by two or three witnesses as we avoid his company far more upon the testimony of a whole Church are we to avoid his company Ans. Then nothing is left to the neighbour Churches but is he excommunicate or not by one onely congregation they had no hand in it onely they must believe the man is rightly cast out upon the word of five or six of the male-Church who are both Judge and Party This is what I said A declararation of Excommunication is no Excommunication And then must the congregations about with the meer judgment of discretion which women have eschew the man as a Pagan Obj. By Mr. R. his way you have the testimony of the Church only which did excommunicate Ans. Yea place is left to many Churches and Synods to judg this is another matter then four of the male-Church that are both Judge and Party who declare he is cast out Mr. H. One classical Church excommunicates not antecedenter But a man in the confines of two Presbyteries is excommunicated by the Presbytery only of which he is a member saith Mr. R. Ans. What ropes can tie the consequent with the antecedent What Mr. R.
counselling Mr. Cotton for command and use of the Keys yields also so the question shall not be of the subject but of the power and of the bounds where acts of free choice of rectified reason for civil ends also have place But the Conclusion is naught So That which is not in the Word saith he is a device of man I assume the frame of the meeting-house for congregational Worship the number names trades callings of members the quantity of water in Baptism the quantity of Bread that every one eats aâ— the Lords Supper are no more in Scripture than the Territories or bounds of Presbyteries yet are they not for that humane devices Mr. H. It is doubtful that all our singular actions as Mr. R. saith are mixed for eating and drinking must be for Gods glory and Omnis actio in individuo est moraliter bona vel mala Ans. If Mr. H. doubt of this Ames Didoclavius can speak to it There is such a thing as an action indifferent as Augustine saith or rather Ierome that is neither good nor evil but it is not a humane action properly as to spit or purge the nose But see all the Schoolmen Scotus Thomas Lombard and all that writ upon them and you shall never reade this new Axiome Omnis actio in individuo est moraliter bona vâ—l mala Durandus indeed and the Schoolmen say that every act individual which followeth deliberate reason is necessarily either morally good or evil See Greg. de Valentia 2. For the mixture of our actions its cleare there is something physical in eating at the Lords Supper as the word hath not set a rule concerning the physical quantity of Bread and Wins so there be not too much for it is not to feed the body nor too little for it must work upon the senses And there is in praying preaching the tone the accent of the organs of the voice and their motion so that we eat and drink for God and soberly and seasonably is moral and squared by the word but a man sins not in eating quickly or lently in the house or in the garden or sometime in his bed sometime at midnight upon necessity Mr. Hooker errs not a little in calling the acts of the Synod Act. 15. Councels such as godly men and women who are not Apostles and Elders may give to others for counsels are not burdens laid upon the people and Churches by the wisedom and authority of the Holy Ghost 2. By Apostles and Elders who sharply rebuke the pressers of circumcision as subverters of the soules of people 3. Neither are they indifferent advices â—hich they might reject but these they could not reject without despising God and the Holy Ghost the very thing that the Lord saith he that dispiseth you dispiseth me which cannot be said of a counsel of the Heathen man to a Christian. It is saith Mr. Cotton an act of the binding power of the Keys to bind burthens as Acts 15. 27. 4. The Decrees of no properly so called Church on earth are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Decrees of Apostles and Elders Mr. H. calls them only Advices and Counsels is it not safer to believe Luke Act. 16. 4. then Mr. H But a Synod is never called a Church say they this is but to contend for names for the word Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is three times Act. 19. 32 39 40. given to a civil meeting and Mr. H. will not have it given to bodies meeting for the affairs of the Church of Christ. Mr. H. Where there is no delegation of messengers by mutual consent there is no right of jurisdiction decrees onely bind the Churches who send them Ans. Antioch Act. 15. 2. and Ierusalem sent messengers therefore two Churches at least were sent and were bound as for delegation we shall speak hereafter of it 2. If they ought to send and stand in need of light and peace and send not they are the same way tyed that some hundreds absent when Iezabel is sentenced and excommunicate are obliged to withdraw from communion from her though they were not present to consent to the sentence Mr. H. It s no prejudice to the care and wisedom of our Saviour that the punishing of the congregational Throne be reserved to God only Ans. When scandals between congregation and congregation and members of divers Churches are greater in number and offence and necessity of edifying and scandalizing greater his wisedom must provide for the more rather then the less Mr. H. If when a Church offends I must tell a higher then must I at length tell an Oecumenick or General Councel Ans. General Councels being more abstracted from infecting scandals of conversation are rather doctrinal Remedies nor are censures the ordinary possible adequate way of removing of Scandal The Word and Censures exercised in the Catholick integral visible Church in parts integral is the adequate cause Mr. H. If every man be allowed his appeal to an higher then also to a General Councel then for many hundred years while the appeal be discussed pendente appellatione the appealer cannot be censured Ans. We allow only just appeals in case of oppression to relieve the oppressed 2. In difficult cases Deut. 17. which rarely are such as call for a general Councel in case of general defection in point of Doctrine such may be and the inferiour Churches that truth suffer not are to declare for the truth 2. We allow only what men jure may do 3. The argument supposeth that we approve a towering up of appeals even to a General Councel as a liberty of every member whatever unjust prejudice be in it and that every such appeal may stop the actings of Christs visible Kingdom and called Pastors Christ hath given no power to sin Mr. H. It s a wonder that because Churches may rebuke yea Christians may rebuke Heathens though not in a Church way that therefore the Synod hath a power of jurisdiction Paul rebuked the Athenians Acts 17. A 〈◊〉 these acts of Church communion Ans. My argument is not à genere ad speciem sed specie ad genus These convened in the name of Christ by the Holy Ghost who 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with one consent by way of suffrage and judgement 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 15. 9. 21. 25. rebuke perverters of souls Act. 24. 28. and lay on burdens and commands 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to observe Act. 21. 25. and keep such things and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to abstain from such things Act. 15. 29. and give Decrees by which the Churches were established in peace and truth Act. 16. 4 5. these have power to excommunicate the refusers of such acts according to Matth. 18. for Paul and Barnabas were scandalized and complained to the Church of Antioch Act. 1. who sent them to complain to a Synod at Ierusalem Act. 15. 2 3 6. and these who in a Church-way determine
against perverters of souls have juridical power if therefore these men had done the contrary and had refused to hear the Church or Churches convened and should teach these decrees came not from the holy Ghost were they not to us as Publicans and Heathens Yea and whâ—â— more could the Church of Pergamus and that of Thyatira Independent 〈◊〉 say our Brethren do in making acts against such as hâ—ld the Doctrine of Balaam of the Nicholaâ—… against Iezabel Rev. 2. 14 15. 20. If they should after prctice and practice such impure doctrine but declare them perverters of souls and charge others to keep no fellowship with them and shall all be but a rebuke such a counsel as one private man giveth to heathen and sure Pauls rebuke of these at Athens Act. 17. though it made not up the rebuke of a Church yet Paul rebuked them not as a private man or as a godly woman may rebuke Idolaters but formally as a Pastor And Paul and Barnabas as Pastors removed the Caadlestick and turned to the Gentiles Act. 13. and unchurched the Jews which no private men could do So the prophesies of Isaiah Ieremiah Ezekiel against Babylon Persians Tyrus c. as they made not the people to be Churches so they came not from private men but from the immediatly inspired Prophets and such Prophets of Divine authority these are proved to be from these Prophesies So the juridical Church-authority of the Synod by Whitaker Calvin Beza and hosts of learned Divines is concluded from Act. 15. Not is it my mind that the Jews did excommunicate the Samaritans so formally as a single delinquent is excommunicate nor do I defend the superstition by Mr. Io-Weemes and Jewish Doctors in the manner of excommunicating them It s sure the Jewes the true Church deservedly renounced Church-communion with them Origen Iosephus Carâ—lus Sigonius and others tell us they were most corrupt in their Religion 2 King 17. and though Augustine say the Jewes so abhorred them that they would not drink water out of any vessel of the Samaritans and Christ refutes that seeking water to drink from the Woman of Samaria Yet since Christ saith Ioh. 4. 22. Ye worship ye know not what we know what we worship for salvation is of the Iews he evidently as Mr. R. said justifieth the substance of the excommunication which is all I intend let their fooleries pass Mr. R. granteth one Church hath not power over another Ans. True but one associate with many hath power Mr. H. A man may separate totally from a Church and from an assembly of Turks but for one man to excommunicate were a prâ—fanation of the Lords Ordinance Ans. A single person could not separate from the Church of the Jewes though they had not a few corruptions Mat. 23. 1 2 3. Mat. 8. 4. no single person can lawfully be a member of a Turkish Church how can he then separate from such 3. The Church of the Jewes and salvation was of the Jews Ioh. 4 2â— was not one man therefore their excommunicating of the Samaritans is not hence concluded to be null 4. But when the sounder part though fewer separateth from the major part and the major part makes manifest defection from the truth and professed cause and covenant And 2 carry along with them the body of Atheists and malignant opposers of pure Religion and wicked men 3. And that the fewer and sounder part have the collective part of the godly and generality of such as make conscience of their ways with them And 4. That major part is again and again warned and 〈◊〉 go on to hold out and cast out as far as they can all not of their sinful way though in their conscience they in other things judge and prosess them to be sound and godly in that case I judge the fewer part the Church and their censures valid for the promise is made to such as meet in the name of Christ Mat. 18. Mr. H. If all common affairs that concern many congregations saith Mr. R. were managed not by one congregation but by the suffcages 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 15. 25. Apostles Elders and select Brethren then Synods and their Church-power most be lawful but the former is true in the chusing of Matthias Act. 1. and the treasury of the Churches and callâ—ng of their Deacons Act. 4. 6. are disposed by a Synod of Apostles with consent of the Churches Paul instructeth a Synod or meeting of 〈◊〉 at Ephesuâ— in their duty of feeding Act. 20. Act 11. Peter gives an account of his going in to the Gentiles to a meeting of Apostles and Breâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 4. It s true in the chusing of Matthias something extraordinary there was that the Apostles could not do as Pastors but as Apostles as Apostles they appoint two v. 23. God only could limit the call to two certain men all the Pastors and Churches on earth could not do that and as Apostles v. 24. they pray for the directing of the loâ—… and Act. 6. as Apostles by the immediately inspiring authority by which they writ Scripture they appoint a new office of Deacons which was not in the Church before but they do most of the rest by the Churches going along Mr. H. There is no Synod in these 1. There be no delegate Commissioners 2. No gathering of members by common consent 3. No disputing 4. No common determination Ans. Neither the first nor the second are essential to Synods if they be persons in publick authority they have a material delegation a formal commission is a matter of order nor were the last two wanting not to say where the matter is plain shall it lose the nature of a Synod because it wants doubtsome â—…diations But Mr. H. and Mr. Cotton are obliged to give an instance scriptural beside the question we have Act. 15. a meeting of Apostles Elders Brethren exercising by the grant of Mr. Cotton and the 7. dissenting Brethren some specifick Churchâ—â—cts of synodical pastoral authoritative teaching and commanding of more congregations then one Ergo they have power to exercise juridical acts for if Peter may exercise one specifick act of a man let us suppose to play the Musician the Astronomer to number things numerable to admire to laugh no man can deny but Peter then must be a man and hath power to discourse and argue So if a Synod as a Synod can exercise one specifick act of a Church being convened in the name of Christ a reason must be given why a Synod hath not the essence of a Church to exercise all the specifick acts of a Church A Synod is not a congregational Church Ergo it s no Church est incons à negatione species c. Mr. H. Peter gives an account of his fact Act. 11. to the Iews who doubt of the lawfulness of his conversing with the Gentiles but here is no Synod Ans. Yea the Jewes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Syrus Chrysostom
they accused Peter before the Apostles Epiphanius thinketh Câ—rinthâ—s set them on work Beza they chid It s like saith Gualther the Apostles did not understand this but they accuse noâ— Peter But Calvin wel observes Peter willingly submits himself to the judgement of the Church and renders an account to the Apostles and Church and what is that but a Synod Mr. H. his answer is one with that of the Jesuits Lorinus and Cornelius that he gave out of humility an account to the people not to the Apostles for he was above the Apostles Mr. H. Act. 21. The Elders were occasionally 〈◊〉 they prescribe nothing â—o Paul Ans. It seems Calvin takes up the mind of Luke 〈◊〉 for he saith Hence we may gather when any serious business was to do the Elders were in use to assemble and Paul doth nothing in the Church of other pastors â—aith Gualther by his own private authority but gives an account to the Ministers Bâ—… saith this was the fourth Councel Lorinus no for there were no vâ—tes asked saith he no debates c. Corneâ—â—us à 〈◊〉 also denies it was a Synod and sayes it was but a meeting that saluted Paul Mr. H. ownes their opinion for his own and calls it only an â—â—easional meeting But say that it were so as all synodical meetings both that Act. 1. and Act. 6. and that Act. 15. it will not conclude it to be no Synod 2. The saluting of Paul was a Christian formality of courtesie but Paul in the Synod v. 18 19. gives them an exact account 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 singula ordine saith 〈◊〉 particularly what God had done among the Gentiles which is a business of the spreading of the Gospel through the habitable world and they shew their judgement of Pauls carriage toward the Jews and the ceremonies were not fully expired to them and toward the Gentiles they confirm the act of the Synod Act. 15. businesses worthy of a Synod Mr. H. Independent Government is deficient saith Mr. R. because now when Apostles are not all the means of publick and pastoral propagating the Gospel to other Churches and to the heathen are confined to a single congregation whereas the Elders thereof can act nothing as officers and the members can act nothing in a Church-way without that one congregation This Argument of mine is not answered by that of Mr H. Those whom pastors cannot judge as being without to them because of another congregation and heathen over them they have 〈◊〉 pastor-like power For the Proposition is most false Pastors cannot excommunicate those of another congregation or heathen Ergo they cannot teach them as pastors It follows not ex negatione speciâ—i non sequitur negatio generis This is not a man therefore this is not a living creature So 1. A single pastor he alone cannot excommunicate an offender of his own congregation for one man is not a Church Ergo he cannot preach as a pastor to this offender The consequence is most false and contrary to Mr. H. for he hath no other proper pastor on earth but he So weak is M. H. his present Proposition 2. Paul and Barnabas preach as sent pastors authorized both by God and the laying on of hands and praying of the Prophets at Antioch Acts 13. but they have no power to excommunicate the Gentiles who are yet no members of the Church nor baptized Paul Acts 16. 15. is sent to preach to Macedonia without their choosing him to be their pastor and yet Paul could not cast out those that were no members until they should be member If it be said that Paul and Barnabas preached to the Gentiles not as pastors because not chosen by them but as Apostles this is well near nonsense For 1. Apostles as Apostles essentially are Catholick pastors not private Teachers and so Apostles preached as men not sent of God nor yet of men whose Baptism was neither from heaven nor from men 2. Why not pastors because not chosen by the people that is men onely can make properly so called pastors but God cannot Whither go we 3. Are not all pastors either Apostolick or extraordinary or ordinary the same pastors in nature and essence except acts of preaching Christ and of Baptizing differ in specie and nature as they flow from Apostles and as they flow from ordinary men which were to make Ordinances the Gospel the Seals of different nature better or valid or worse and less valid as they come from Apostles or from ordinary pastors Strange Divinity 〈◊〉 3. By this Doctrine of Mr. H. the Gospel must be propagated to the world and Churches planted among heathen 1. Either by Apostles which are not now and shall gratifie Seekers or by pastors as pastors which we say and Mr. H. and his gainsay or 2. By private men or by pastors as private men gifted But 1. are private men successors of the Apostles to plant Churches among the heathen What Scripture for this Is that Promise Lâ— I am with you to the end of the world left by Christ to private men Sure that Promise is made to the Apostles and their Successors in all acts of their pastoral preaching either in planting or watering So he sheweth saith Ierome that the Apostles shall ever live in faithful pastors to succeed them both in planting Churches that ye may gather to 〈◊〉 my Church and Saints saith Chrysostome out of all Nations Now by Mr. H. his way the Lord promiseth thus I will be with you and all faithful pastors in preaching when the Apostles are dead to their own formed congregations but I promise no presence nor Ministerial assistance at all to pastors ordinary when they preach in another congregation than their own or when they preach the Gospel to heathens and those that are not yet Churches of Christ for then they act not as pastors Then must either private Christians or some new kinde of officers that are unknown to the Word and are neither Apostles Evangelists Pastors nor Prophets nor Doctors be the onely planters of Churches among the heathen and where is there Scripture for that Or then this Promise of Christs presence must be made to private men But have not some private men brought the Gospel to heathens True but now we dispute of the onely fixed ordinary spreaders of the Gospel to other congregations and heathen societies since the Apostles are now dead yeâ— and we finde that the Lord gave a sort of new calling to the Apostles touching those to whom they were hic nunc to preach as Peter and Iohn are called to Samaria Acts 8. Peter to Cornelius and the Gentiles Act. 10. Paul and Barnabas Act. 13. to the Gentiles Paul to Macedonia not Bithynia Act. 16. Now is there nothing of this in the ordinary pastors but private men must be heirs to these Apostolick warnings from God 4. It must follow if pastors be now so confined to one congregation in all pastoral actings then all
pastoral care of Apostles for vacant Charges for planting of new Churches relief of the poor removing divisions c. Act. 1. 6 4. 35. 11. 1 2. 15 22 23 24 c. 1 Cor. 11. 28. Act. 8. 14. 21. 18. 20. 38. 13. 1 2 3. were temporary and Apostolick stirringâ— not pastoral duties now but such as died with the Apostles which is contrary to the wisdome of Christ. Mr. H. If government by Independent congregations be insufficient because it authorizeth not persons to be pastors over pagans government by Synods is sick of the same disease Ans. We judge the essence of a pastor not to stand in the call and choice of those to whom they are pastors for it makes Paul Barnabas and the Apostles to be no pastors to the Gentiles and to the heathen to whom they preach and maketh the Apostles as Apostles to be no pastors 2. Synods from Act. 15. and Act. 13. may lend men authorized with pastoral power to heathens to spread the Gospel and private men as no pastors but as private men are intruders authorized by Mr. H. for they have no promise such as pastors have by Mat. 28. 19 20. Mark 16. 15 17. Ier. 1. 6 17 18. to plant Churches among the heathens nor is there a warrant to say that Evangelists are ordinary officers left by Christ to plant Churches If Richard Hooker have any ground from Eusebius or Scripture for Evangelists now or in Trajans time he must shew that they have the gift of Tongues for how could Evangelists be fellow-helpers to preach the Gospel to the Churches planted by the Apostles if they were not an extraordinary office onely See those Divines in the margin and my learned and dear Brother M. George Gillespy Miscel. quest c. 7. If the Church should send any to the heathen any way ripâ— for the Gospel these could be no other than ordinary pastors to them I omitted that of Mr. H. There is nothing Act. 1. but any one might have done Ans. If he mean that any one private man might have chosen Apostles he speaks wonders if he mean Peter might have called Matthias to be an Apostle 1. It s without practise that Apostles could call Apostles 2. It follows not therefore it was not a Synod Paul did more in writing Scripture than if alone he had penned the decrees Acts 15. 16. 4. But Mr. Cotton and all his Brethren will deny M. H. his Consequence Ergo there is no Synod at all Act. 15. Mr. H. If the Apostles by extraordinary power cared for the poor Acts 4. Ergo there was a Synod Ans. The Antecedent is not mine but false 2. There was no doubt but ordinary pastors might oversee the Poors goods of many Churches CHAP. XI Of the National Church and the lawfulness of a National Covenant MR. H. The greater authority of the politick whole body saith Mr. R. should help the weaker parts 1 Cor. 12. 23 26. Ans. It s true but there is no National Church under the New Testament to help the congregational Church nor are Churches Christian now in Worse â—ase than the Church of the Iews for they had a High-priest and a National Worship at which they were to meet three times in the year Ans. That there is an integral Church Catholick which is more than National is proved 2. Our Brethren allow the association of many Churches for help of counsel and the Proposition that is granted by M. H. is as true for Church help as is said associated Churches could not yield for union in peace and truth except they made one visible body united Natura conjugatorum hoc â—vincit 3. Visible and professed covenanting with God makes a visible Church Gen 17. 7. Deut. 7. 6. For thou art a holy people unto the Lord thy God Deut. 10 15. Onely the Lord had a delight in thy fathers Abraham Isaac as a covenanted seed and Church Gen. 12 1 2 3. 17 6 7 8 9. to love them and their seed after them Now the seed of Abraham visible covenanted by M. H. his confession was a visible Church before they had an High-priest or a Temple or a National Worship in Abrahams house Ergo the High Priesthood and National Worship was accidental to the visible Jewish Church If it be said Yeâ— but they were in Abrahams time a congregational Church It s answered Yet then Priesthood Temple and National Worship differenced not the Church of the Jews from the Church of the Gentiles Our Brethrens Argument in this is of the same stamp with that of the Murtherers of Steven Acts 7. Steven all along in his Apologie refutes them and â—aith the Jews were a true Church in Egypt when they had no Temple no Ceremonies no National Worship but by faith onely rested upon the promises So Calvin Gualther Bullinger Brentius Marloratus Beza contend that Steven his Apologie had been impertinent if this had not been his scope 2. They were a visible Church in Egypt multiplied above an hundred congregations Exod. 1. 9 11 15. more in number than the Egyptians and the Lords covenanted Church Exod. 3. 6 7 8. 6. 7. 8. obliged to sacrifice to God Exod. 8. 29. and did eat the Passover and were circumcised in Egypt Exod. 4. 24 25 26 12. 1 2 3 c. when as yet Aaron was not consecrated High-priest and there was no Temple nor any National Temple-worship thrice a year at that time in the world 3. When Priesthood Temple-National-worship thrice a year sacrificing are removed Iudah remained in the Babylonish captivity the visibly covenanted people of God obliged to pray to him with their faces toward the Temple 1 King 8. 35. Dan. 6 10 11. and this is no more one National worship than the hearing of the Word and receiving the Seals of the N T. are one National worship to all the Protestant Church-members in Scotland 4. That which is common to Gods people of the Jews and to Egypt and Assyria and the people of God in the Gentiles is no distinguishing character differencing the Jewish Church as National from the Christian Church as not National Quae sunt communia â—a non distingunnt But to profess say and swear by the Lord and give him publick Church-worship agree to Egypt and Assyria and to Kingdoms and Nations of the New Testament as to the Jewish Nation as Isa. 2. 2. It shall come to pass in the last dayes under the New Testament v. 3. that many people shall go and say Come ye and let us go up to the Mountain of the Lord to the house of the God of Iacob and he will teach us of â—ù wayes c. So Isa. 19. 25. God shall bless thus saying Blessed be Egypt my people and Assyria the work of my hand and Israel my inheritance Which the seventh Angel declares to be fulfilled in the New Testament Rev. 11. 15. The Kingdoms of this
It s true they may say he plays the Tyrant in that but yet God hath given him the onely supreme power both to inquire saith Mr. H. and judge of Professions and Religions which is true and ought to be maintained which is false and ought to be rejected And if so the many godly who fled from Old England to New England because of Prelatical Tyranny of conscience did believe that the late King Charles had power as a King to judge the Service book and Ceremonies imposed upon the godly in England yea and upon Scotland also was the onely true Religion and had power given him of God as supreme Magistrate to command all the three Kingdoms to be of the Kings Religion or then let them all be banished out of his Dominions But is not this to make the King a Pope and the onely carver and Lord of the Faith and Religion of his Subjects and so the King by his Office is the Messenger of the Lord of Hosts and a Royal Prophetical Teacher who watches for the souls of all his people What Scripture puts the King in such an Office 2. Did not the godly and sound condemn such an Headship in the Oath of Supremacy and in the Kings Proclamation in which he as King commands all to receive such a Religion as he thinks fit even the substantials of the Mass and no Prayers but book-prayers the other Prayers being fancies And this command is equal to a pastoral or Synodical Decree 1. Because it comes from the King having no act of the Church but onely having taken the counsel of his Clergie and so by civil power peculiar to his power Royal and place as Mr. H. speaks p. 56. 2. Because its the onely form of worship he thinks fit 3. Because he commands it to all Ecclesiastick persons Arch-bishops Bishops c. as the onely Spiritual Pastor of Pastors on earth Hence if Christ hath given such power it s not lawful without breach of the fifth Command to embrace or profess any Religion in a Christian Kingdom except it be first instamped by or with the Authority of the King the Head as the Chaplain calls him of the Churches by his Royal Authority Yea our Book of Canons say that Christian Kings now have the same power in causes Ecclesiastical that the godly Kings among the Iews had And are they not then Prophets by office and may write Canonick Scripture as David and Solomon did and so we must not without Rebellion profess the Faith or the Christian Religion but when and where such as the King commands us contrary to Mat. 10. 32. or we are to confess Christ before men but not except the King teach and command a confession and such a confessor 3. Paul must have told us Eph 4. 11 12. of the King as well as of the Apostle given to edifie the Body and gather the Church if so be that he is the onely supreme Iudge of true and false Religions And he must be some spiritual officer and one who chooseth a God and a Religion to his Subjects and he must be â—he holiest Subject who can say The Kings God is my God When I read this I was sad to see Mr. Tho Hooker speak and write like the Royalist Mr. Rich. Hooker 4. The Magistrate supreme and inferiour except Mr. H. be an Erastian is a member of the Church and under the Scepter of Christ in the preached Gospel and to be edified by the Word Seals Rebukes and Censures for otherwise He that despiseth you despiseth me and if he hear not the Church let him be as a heathen and Faith comes by hearing must suffer a strange exception in the person of the King he may despise pastors and the Church without guiltiness for he is above the pastors and carves their Religion and prescribes as our cited Proclamation saith the causes why Bishops should excommunicate and censure to wit if they refuse the Kings Religion and Mr. H. warrants him by a power peculiar and supreme so to do 5. We reade not that the Kings of Israel and Iudah prescibed what was true and false Religion but were subject to the Priests and Prophets who spake the word of the Lord and the Prophets rebuked Kings as Ieroboam and others for intruding themselves in that office Moses Samuel David Solomon were Prophets 2 Chron. 36. 16. Isa. 50. 19. 6. The Magistrate is the Minister of God and bears the Sword to take order with evil doers and is Custos vindex utriusque tabulae and the Religion is supposed to be before the Ruler 7. It s somewhat heathenish like Numa Lycurgus who to procure obedience and authority to themselves gave out that they prescribed what Religion was true and that they conversed much with God 8. All questions and controversies of Religion in the Nation must be determined all cases of conscience resolved by this Pope who onely can determine what is true and what is false Religion and the King must be the Oracle and Priest with whom onely the Urim and the Thummim must be 9. All fallings against Religion must be Treason against the King whereas Kings and people are rebuked because they hearkened not to the voice of the Prophets not because disobedient to the word of the Lord in the mouth of the King Either this is to take both the Swords from the Pope and to give them to the King or it is nothing for without controversie the King bears the Sword to take vengeance of him that doth evil Rom. 13. 4. 1 Pet. 2. 14. and whosoever determineth by his supreme power what is true and false Religion to all the Subjects must bear the other Sword 10. M. H. makes out his Assertion thus Kings could not provide for their Subjects to live in godliness and honesty except they had power to inquire and judge of true and false Religions Now this is spoken of Nero and of heathen Kings 1 Tim. 2. 1 2. But out of doubt God never made heathens that are enemies to true Religion supreme determiners of true and false Religion And if this agree to Rulers as Rulers as M. H. saith it is peculiar to their power and place then all Rulers Heathen Christian high and low sound in the faith and corrupt and heretical should be carvers of so many sundry Gods and Religions But the next Reason is ill and worse if because the King is a Nurse-father to the Church he must be father and a begetter both of Religion and of the Church because he protects and defends the true Church then true Religion must be before him As also when Mr. H. saith that the Prince is a Nurse father to the Church he means the Independent Church onely so that he owes no protection to Presbyterians nor justice to them And if the Nurse-fathers care be that there should be a right opinion and worship openly professed within his Territories the Magistrate is to do this no other wayes but
of Christ by faith make one body and that he excludes not but includes the visible body he proves from 1 Cor. 12. ye are the body of Christ and Eph. 4. the body gathered by the Ministry of Apostles Evangelists Pastors c. which shall be brought to the unity of faith So Christ is the rock of life and the rock of faith to the Church builded upon the rock which admits not Magns who is not builded upon the rock as Ioh. Hush refused a wicked Pope to be head or member of the Church so built Hieronymus clearly expounds the ports of Hell to be Viâ—ia atque peccata reâ—r vâ—l certè 〈◊〉 Doctrinas sins or herefies which is strong for the invisibâ—e Church of true believers not for the visible congregation of which Iudas and Magus are members to Mr. Hooker and were never built on the rock And the Keyes are given to Bishops and Presbyters who may not under that pretence condemn the innocent And Hieron Com. Mat. 18. 18. Si Ecclesiam non audierit quaecunque alligaveritis potestatem tribuit Apostolis ut sciant qui à 〈◊〉 condeâ—nantur humanam sententiam divinâ roborari quodcunque ligatum fuerit in terra ligari pariter in coelâ— See Hieronym Com. ad Eph. 4. 11. who expounds the body of Christ of the Church until we all meet all the company of believers And Hâ—eron Let the Bishops hear who have power of ordaining Elders in every City Nor need our Brethren suspect Hieronymus to be prelatical his judgment is known to be contrary thereunto See Hieron in Tit. 1. 5. See him for the present purpose in Opuscul in Prover c. 7 p. 217. See Ruffinus for the marks of the true Church saying with us That pure doctrine declares a pure Church and so the Churches which Marcion Valentinus Ebion and Manicheus and other hereticks gather are not true Churches Chrysostom If the ports of hell prevail not against the Church far less shall they prevail against me therefore thou shouldst not be troubled Peter when thou hearest that I shall be crucified Then by the mind of Chrysostom Christ speaks here for the comfort of Peter as a sound believer and not as an external visible member of a congregation as saith Mr. H. And see here a fisher-man is made Pastor and Head of the whole Church Then it could not have been the mind of Chrysostom that such a headship whatever it was or whether peculiar to Peter or no is another question was given to the people Chrysostom expounds tell the Church tell the Rulers Chrysostom As a King sending Iudges gives them power to cast guilty men in prison and to deliver them so sends Christ his Disciples and arms them with authority Will any dream that Chrysostom judgeth that Christ gave this power to the people Chrysostom saith the Apostles take to themselves to determine the number of the Deacons and to ordain them but they give the election of the men to the people lest the Apostles should seem partial and to favour men Mr. H. saith the contrary Valiant Athanasius makes the Church builded upon a Rock to be a strong an unshaken promise and that the Church is an inseparable thing although hell it self were moved and these that are in hell and the Princes of darkness should rage Sure this great Witness never meant any such invincible promise to an external visible congregation and its members Iudas and Simon Magus Peter himself who received the heavenly Keyes sinned saith Athanasius Hilarius commends the Rock which breaks the ports of Hell and sayes that men are loosed or bound in Heaven by condition of the Apostles sentence then doth he not think it the sentence of the people Let the learned judge of the ancient writings of Clemens that Epistle of his to the Corinthians read sometimes in the ancient Church will have Mr. Hookers visible converts only Church-matter though he writ to them as the true Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yet he writes of a sad change of their profession such as was in Israel when they made defection to Idolatry 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It were hard to say such a company are all visible converts 2. Clemens seems to deny to the people power of commanding and to say that the preachers ordained Bishops and Deacons 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Cyrillus Alexandrinus upon these words I will give thee the Keyes he gifted universally all the Apostles with power over unclean spirits then neither the one power nor the other gave he to the people Cyril Alexan. in Isa. l. 5. pag. 393. Cyrillus tom 2 dialog de Trinitat l. 4. pag. 278. Peter is so called from his most firm and unshaken faith in qua Ecclesia Christi ita fundata ac firmatt essâ—t ut non laberetur esser expugnabilis inferorum portis aeterâ—…um manens on which the Church is built that it cannot fail but remains for ever cannot be overcome by the ports of hell Cyrillus well knew single congregations are not invincible and he speaks of such a saving faith as Magus cannot have it came from the Father teaching ex ineffabili eruditione superna c. See what Apostolick dignity he gave to them which he gave not to the people Cyrill in Ioan. l. 12. c. 56. page 699 700. Cyrill on Isa. 5. c. 60 page 383. August tom 10. Dom. 11 post Epiphan sect 2 page 235. Tertius modus est quomodo totus Christus secundum Ecclesiam id est caput corpus praediceturâ— etenim caput corpus unus Christus non quia sine corpore non est integer sed quia nobiscum integer esse dignatus est membra Christi corpus sumus omnes simul non qui hoc loco sumus tantum fed per universam terram nee qui tantum hoc tempore sed qui dicam ex Abelâ—…sto usque in finem seculi quandiu generant generantur hominis It were needless to prove a visible integral catholick Church all the world over not in Asia onely from Augustine 2. Or to prove a mixture of tares and wheat of good and bad in the visible Church and that they are not visible converts that are members of the visible Church 3. How far in the communion of the Church and of Sacraments mali maculent contaminent bonos see August-cont Epist. Parmen Mr. H. deviseth a way for this It s referred to a mans free choice without any compulsion of any to what congregation he shall joyn himself or not and though the doctrine and ordinances be most pure yet he may keep within himself the causes of his not joyning thinking such are profane and so there is little or nothing of Christs presence in this Church But the formal cause of joyning to a Church in which one should reside is not the holiness of members but the soundness and purity of
the Ordinances and if the Gospel be there he is obliged to profess it as he is to confess and not deny Christ before men 2. If any of Israel goodwell in another city or town where another Priest shall teach is it in his choice to be taught by that Priest or not or was there no freedome under the Old Testament but there is freedome now Prove this difference from the Word 4. The Donâ—… in that contr Pâ—… l. 11. c. 14. A wicked Minister can no more convert quam vivificare quenquam mortuus potest than a dead man can give life So our Brethren they are not fit to be edifying matter who shall destroy the Church 5. August lib. Retract 2. c. 18. Ubicunqus autem in 〈◊〉 libris commemoravi Ecclesiam non habentem maculam aâ—… rugam non sic accipiendum quasi jam sâ—â— sed quâ— praeparatur ut sis Augustine owns no Church that in the esteem of Saints is without spot or wrinkle 6. Augustine condâ—… the Donatistâ— Aug. contr liter Petil. Episc. Donatistâ— l. 1. 〈◊〉 1. they were broken off from the catholick Church ab or bis 〈◊〉 sancta communiono that was sure no congregation for they set up congregations of their own but they said With themselves onely was the true Church 7. Petilianus said What hath righteousness to do with unrighteousness Augustine saith It s not righteousness taking part with unrighteousness Si Judas Petruâ— paritor sacramenta communiâ—… 8. Petilianus applied the Scriptures that are spoken of real Saints as Psal. 1. Blessed is the man and Psal. 23. The Lord is my shepherd he leadeth me c. to their onely members of separated Churches So do our Brethreu Mr. Cotton Mr. Hooker So Mr. Robinson Augustine answers These words belong not to baptized Simon Magus They are not the words of the tares of the chaff but of the wheat 9. Petilian said the Catholicks admitted all to be just and members of the Church qui verba legis noverunt that knew words of Scripture and Satan knew Scripture The same Mr. H. objects to us See Aug. 10. The question between us and the Donatists is Where is this Body visible for it were madness to think the question was touching the invisible Church where it is Where the Church is What then shall we do shall we seek it in our words or in the words of her Head the Lord Iesus See August It s known Augustine acknowledgeth in all these Writings a Catholick Church from Sea to Sea to which men should joyn themselves as to the visible society of Christ. 11. Our Brethren will have none to be baptized except they be baptized into a particular congregation And Aug. condemns the Donatists who will have it no baptism which is administred without the Church 12. Our Brethren will have so many conditions of the visible Church 1. That the matter be fit visible Saints 2. That the form be a Church covenant 3. That they meet in one place c. Augustine following the Word saith All of Jews and Gentiles in covenant are the visible Church 13. This or that congregation or believer may fall off the Rock defecit ex omnibus Gentibus Christiana Religio excepta parte Donati except some following Donatus and some in America aut alibi See Aug. 14. They who saith Augustine teach That the Church which was to take its beginning at Jerusalem is not that visible City but by a figure is the whole Church that is in heaven and earth may say that also is spoken by a figure It behoved Christ to die and to rise the third day Then Augustine thinks the Church of Jews and Gentiles all the world over to be one visible City against the Donatists and our Brethren Catholicks as August teacheth said that it was the minde of Cyprian that the tares were in the Church not lurking but seen to which the Donatists durst answer nothing they were so moved with the authority of Cyprian Cyprian clearly saith the Lord gave first to Peter upon whom he built his Church nor did he then build the Church upon the confessing Church power to binde and loose as also he saith after the Resurrection to the Apostles As my Father sent me so send I you To Cyprian then one place in Ioh. 20. expounds Matth 16. Now Cyprian never thought that Christ sent the people as the Father sent him And Cyprian soli Petro dixit Quaecunque ligaverâ—s Quando in solos Apostolos insuâ—â—â—vit Christus dicens accipite Spiritum Sanctum si eujus remiseritis pâ—ocata Cyprian proves that the Church is one and Baptism one What talk they then of multiplied visible congregations and multiplied Baptisms And see Cyprian Et quamvis Apostolis omnibus post resurrectionem dicat Sicut â—ifit me pater c. tamen ut unitatem manifestaret unam Cathedram Petri constituit c. Cyprian expounding Matth. 16. 18. And I say to thee Thou â—â—t Peter c. the Church is founded upon the Bishops and every act of the Church by these overseers is guided and therefore the lapsi should not have peace but by satisfying Church-discipline FINIS Isa. 15. 6 7. The adequate subject of Church discipline is not the visible Church as M. H. take 〈◊〉 it A Church without officers may not do what a civil corporation without rulers may do Pag. 13 14. What influence habitation hath to make Church-members Survey p. 1. c. 2. pag. 14 15. M. H. his visible Saints are not the onely fit matter of the visible Church nor is it proved but by conjectures Pag. 15. M. H. 1. Arg. Christ is two wayes a head by M. H. his way Or where Christ is in Scripture called the head of Magus M. R. desires to know Men are the confederate people of God visibly without any mans passing his judgment thereupon M. H. his Second Arg. part 1. pag. 16 17. M. H. 2. Arg. That reall Saints onely are members and subjects of the visible Church and of Christs visible kingdome the place Isai. 33. 22. doth not prove that M. H. his visible Saints are the onely matter of the visible Church Marlorat comment in Isai. c. 3â— 20. tentorium firmum adeo ut ne portae inferorum adversus eam praevaleant Matth. 16. 18. Ioan. Piscator v. 20. adhuc alloquitur pios Iudaeos Calvin in Locum quin dominus in medio ejus ideo non commovetur Muscul. 16. oves meas nemo rapiet è manu mea Calv. in vers 22. notandum hic quae vera sit ecclesia Dei scil Deum logislatorem regem agnoscit Bullinger in locum ita instruct à gratiâ Dei ut malis nec cedat nec frangatur sed semper permaneat firma Calvin vers 24. notatâ— dignum est quod soli ecclesiae cives hoc privilegio remissionis ornantur Gualter in loc ad solam ergo ecclesiam â—ujus cives illa
of the Churches c. 1. sect 1. pag. 2. prop. 3. For all the joyning of faithful Christians into the fellowship and estate of a Church we finde not in Scripture that God hath done it any other way than by entring all of them together as one man into holy covenant with himself to take the Lord as the Head of his Church for their God and to give themselves to him and one to another in his fear c. M. R. 5 Arg p. 83 84. Read for this a Judicious piece of my reverend and learned brother Mr. R. Baily his disswasive from the errors of the time and the disswasive vindicated An. 1675. All are converted in ordinary by private men or by no pastors by our brethrens way Survey par 1. c. 11. p. 55. By our brethren pastors convert not Indians Way of the Church c. 1. pro. 5. sect 2. p. 6 7 8. Survey par 1. c. 4. 7. p. 87. The way of our brethren doth destrâ—y the ministry Calv. Com. Gal. 2. incitavit ad sanciendum Ministerii societatem Pelican ib. Synod Paulus primarius fuerit inter Apostolos Pareus in Collegium Apostolorum nos receperunt Pisc. Me pro Apostolo agnoverunt Diodati Beza Symbolum nostrae consensionis dextram dederunt Hieronym Gal. 2. Many Churches may put forth a Church-power upon one Church associate as Iames Cephas and Iohn Gal. c. 2. as Apostles received Paul into the Colledge of Apostles Pag. 88. Some chiefe and ordinary church-prophesying and church-praying is given to the unofficed church as to the only kindly subject by Mr. H. Mr. H. Survey par 1. c. 8. p. 52. Mr. H. par 1. c. 8. pag. 89. Mr. H. is dubious what is the instituted Church in the New Testament Way of the Church of N. E. c. 1. sect 1. pro. 1. pag. 1 2. Pa. 8. par 1. p. 90 91. Mr. H. makes a Church without Rulers to be a Ruling Church to ordain officers and excommunicate Mr. Cotton Keys c. 4. par 2 as the Presbytery cannot excommunicate the whole church though Apostates for they must tell the church so neither can the church excommunicate the whole Presbytery because they have not received from Christ an office of rule without their officers M. Cot. contradicts M. H. There is no warrant in the word for a male Church-ruling and admitting members ordaining excommunicating officers and yet that is void of rule and office The Epâ—… to Timotâ—… Titus are neâ—… ther written to them as to Prelats Pastors of Pastors nor to unoffic'd christians nor to them as Evangelists but especially as representing Elders to be a copy to officers to the appearing of Christ. Pauls Presbyt cap. 4. ans to ar 6. p. 45. Page 90 91. The Logick of Mr. H. God set officers in the Church Ergo the Church without officers is a ruling Church before they have Rulers is naughty So Mr. Robinson Justif. of Separat Pref. p. 9. Bishops and Elders are the onely ordinary Governors in the Church But not essential to the Church Sure they must be essential to the governed Church Mr. Robinson ib. p. 295. Page 92. By Mr. H. the adjuncts beget the subject the sons the fathers The Churches Rev. 1. 2. are not a number of unofficed believers but the believers with Doctors and Teachers as shining Lamps Pareus Com. in Apocalyp in loc Candelabris assimilantur quia Ecclesia gestat facem coelest is doctrinae Pignet Apoc. 1. Quia in ea vâ—rum lumen lucet Marlor Quia in ea sunt Prophetae Apostoli Evangâ—listae quia lucent per saluberrimam vitae doctrinam Piscat Apoc. 1â— observ 39. Candelabra illa quae vidisti in vera Ecclesia instar auri splendet lucet pura doctrina So Diodati English Annotations Beza Mr. H. Survey p. 92. It is not a like in a Church wanting officers as in a civil corporation wanting Rulers Papists so argue See Jac. Gualter in Tabula Chronographic Secul 1. ad an 100. verita sect 1. p. 150. Page 92. It is not absurd that a politick body destroy its own politick being when they remâ—ve Lions Leopards which destroyed hâ—m Page 92 93. To remove the candlestick is to remove the Ministry and so the church is not a politick church any more Pag. 93. The way of the Churches of Christ in N. E. c. 1. sect 1. prop. 1. p. 1 2. Survey par 1. c. 9. p. 94. Officers can be no essential parts of the visible Church by Mr. H. his way Pag. 94 95. The two first Pillars of a Presbyterial Church to wit 1. framed Churches 2. Formal commissioners sent to Presbyteries are to us no pillars to Mr. H. they are People that are no stewards have no authority to censure or thereby to edifie How pastors are regulated in the exercise of their calling Survey c 〈◊〉 par 1. p. 99. The Churches united have more power extensively after they are united than before but not intensively in nature more Actual voluntary combination is no pillar of the Presbyterian Church Page 99 100. Twelve pastors feed 12 congregations in Jerusalem or in some large city in coÌ„mon not being fixed any of them to any one congregation all the 12 are pastors to all the 12 congregations yet it is not possible physically that any one man can reside in all the 12 congregations here shall be divers Non-residents Pluralists but not in a Prelatical sense The Elders of the Presbytery are fixed and proper Pastors only to one flock and Pastor in common in matters of common concernment to all the rest of tho associate Churches A Pastor may administer the Supper of the Lord which he doth as a Pastor to these of another Congregation yet is he not a fixed proper Pastor to those of another congregation Cotton Keys c. 6. n. 3. p. 25. Mr. H. Survey par 2. c. 2. p. 65. Way of the Churches of Christ in New England c. 6. sect 6. pag. 103 Hr. H. Survey par 4. c. 1. p. 1 2 3 4. Our brethren destroy Synods though they give them the name of ordinances of Christ. Mr. H. Survey par 4. p. 1 2 3. When no more is given to a Synod but to counsel and advise it is for that no more an ordinance of God then a private man or woman giving a counsel is an ordinance of God Private Christians and women giving counsel to men may as well be called an ordinance of Christ as a Synod Survey par 4. c. 1. p. 6. Pag. 101. A Pastor constantly feeds his own flock and administers the Lords supper to forty persons of forty congregations about as Mr. Cotton and Mr. H. grant but he hath not fourty pastoral offices for that Mr. H. Survey par 2. c. 2. p. 65 Way of the Churches of N. E. c. 6. sect 6. p. 103. Survey par 2. c. 2. p. 65. Pag. 102. The place Mat. 18. is mistaken by our brethren contrary to the scope and to the minde of Fathers Doctors Divines
the power intrinsecal of a congregation to rule the associated Churches if they were Page 126. The adding of associated Churches to a Wilderness-church doth strengthen perfect and not nullifie the intrinsecal power of the Wilderness-church Pag. 117. When scandals fall out far off or near hand how association of Churches removeth them The limiting of Church-edifying and Church-comforting to one onely congretien whereof the man onely is a sworne member is an unwarrantable and comfortless way The Way of Churches of N. E. c. 1. sec. 1. p. 1. c. 4. sec. 3. sec. 4. p 70 71. Mr. H. Survey pa. 3. c. 2. p. 10. M. Cotton keys of the kingd c. 7. p. 39 40 4â— Mr. H. par 1. c. 9. p. 127 128. sec. 4. 3 ground One and the same nature agrees to the congregational presbyterial Church c. Pag. 127. 128. The congregational Presbyterial National Oecumenick Churches are species specialissimae How a congregation is an intire church Tertul. in Apolog Though the Churches of believers men and women be before the Apostles Evangelists Pastors Presbyteries Synods yet it follows not therefore must Apostles Pastors Synods have their calling and authority from those Churches Sect. 4. p. 128. Mr. Hooker acknowledges that divers meetings and Church conventions may may be all under one Presbyterial government only he will not call them Churches Way of the Church c. 1. sect par 1. Survey par 1. c. 9. p. 110 111 c. Mr. H. must be forced by his own principles to grant there is one visible Church which cannot meet conveniently 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the same place and yet under the same Eldership Mr. H. yeilds to us a Presbyterian Church at Ierusalem Page 51. Fixedness or no fixedness of the Elders of Ierusalem to their own proper congregations is altogether accidental to the Church presbyterial The Apostles fixed feeding at Rome at Corinth is not opposite unto but of that same nature with his feeding pastorall all the world over All the incongruities that are the onely arguments of Mr. H. against a Presbyterial church are militant against the presbyterial Church which Mr. H. grants was at Ierusalem Mr. H. well near also yieldeth that there was a Presbyterian Church at Antioch Ephesus Rome There are the like reasons that the multitudes of Believers at Rome Antioch Ephesus Corinth Samaria Thessalonica could not meet in one place and so there must be in these huge Cities many Congregations under one Presbyterial Government as for the multitudes at Ierusalem What is meant by Church Act. 2. were added to the Church Mr. H. inclines to expâ—… the word Câ—…h of the â—â—â—thful Saul made havock of the Câ—… Eâ—… there is 〈◊〉 Presbyteriâ— a church How watery is this Lâ—gick Par. 1. c. 10. p. 130. Mr. R. argument Mat. 18. from allusion unto the Jewish Sanhedrim abused not answered M R. is not for all appeals whatsoever justor unjust but for such as are edifying and necessary and relieves from tyrannicall oppression the plaintiff Pag. 131. The removing of scandals Mat. 18. cannot be of onely scandals between brother and brother of the same congregation except I must not owne as brethren to be gained those of another Church beside me Christ willeth every little congregation to exercise discipline upon an offender Ergo there is no discipline to be exercised in a greater Church So Mr. H. But the contrary rather strongly followeth The Sanhedrim was not mixed by institution Pauls Presbyt c 8. p. 88. The Church Mat. 18. is to be obeyed in the Lord by the people but the Church of the people is not to be obeyed in the Lord by the people Women are as essential parts of the believing Church as men and womâ—n must no more blindly believe what the Church believes than men nor must their faith in discerning the voice of Christ in this pastor not in this be blindly included in the males discerning and so women must be a part of the binding and loosing Church Mat. 18. Survey par 1. c. 10. p. 133. The Church principally meant Mat. 18. must be the binding and loosing brethren which are the Church fiâ—stâ—y the officers are onely separable adjuncts thereof saith M. H. Par. 1. c. 11. p. 198. When all the officeâ—s turne wolves the people must complain to the people when the people turn Familists Socinians c. to whom sâ—aâ—l the officers complain accoâ—ding to M. H. minde The officers cannot binde potestate officii since the Keys were given to the Male-church before the officers had being as M H saith We cannot tell the church of Jerusalem or Galatia by M. H. Women have no less a tacit consent a faith of practise in eschewing the society of the excommunicated in admitting of him again and of all members in election of officers than men and in other duties recommended to Church-members Let M. H. shew how women are all excluded from Church duties in their way more than men So Cypr. Juban Epist. 73. pag. 22. Nam Petro primum Dominus super quem adificavit Ecclesiam Mat. 16. Istaem potestatem clavium dedit post resurrectionem sicut me misit pater c. Firmilian ad Cypr. Epist. 75. Cypr. pag. 239. n. 14. Hinc intelligi potest quod soli Petro Christus dixerit quemcunque ligaveritis Matth. 16 c. Quando in solos Apostolos insufflavit Christus dicens accipite Spiritum Sanctum c. The word Church can signifie no other but the ruling Church Mat. 18. and the notation of the word Church in our brethrenssense is neither Mat. 18. nor elsewhere See how Bilson Perpetual G ve n. c. 4. mistakes in this Though women children of age and servants be excluded from governing yet the question now is a farre other thing Whether the word Church Mat. 18. if it be the Church of Redeemed ones meeting to and for publick ordinances in the same place include not women c. The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Church is ever taken in Scripture according to the subject matter and scope of the place and so must the binding and loosing or excommunicating Church Matth. 18. be taken and cannot note a company of redeemed ones Men Women Servants Children of riper age come together in one to partake of Word Seals Censures the onely acception of the Word Church that our brethren can give us from Scripture The Church Matth. 18. 1 Cor. 5. includes all who meet for the publick worship Elders Men Women Servants aged Children every one according to their place according as Paul rebukes comforts teaching in his Epistle 1 Cor. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Rom. 16. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The women in their daily practice are concerned in conscience to censent unto or dissent from the sentence of excommunication or forgiving and re-admiting again and that upon rules of the Gospel as well as men Caelv Inst. l. 3. c. 4. sec. 12. Instit l. 4. c. 1. sec. 2. Instit. l. 4. c. 12.
the pastors It is but a poor evasion of Mr. H. that the people doth excommunicate the officers not as officers but as members for none are sure to be excommunicate but as scandalous and rotten members The ruling Elders there alone with the people have no power by the Word to judge the Pastors Pag. 189 190. It is no staple rule that one cannot be compelled to joyn in a congregation The Ruler makes no Church-laws but he may compel Christians yea and subdued heathens in some case to obey them when they are made Pag. 190 191. There is no Scripture that unofficed men have a power of creating of officers Ames in Bellarm enervato â—om 2 l. 3. c. 2 Oves rationales foeminae adulti pueri servi possunt eligere sibi pastorem non per jurisdictionem sed potius per subjectionem See the mistakes of D. Bilson Perpetual Governm c. 7. Page 191. Many breâ—hâ—eÌ„ have no divided powers to make â—ne an officer The fraternity or brethren are in no place of Scripture put for the male-Church of Redemed ones far less for the congregational male Church Way of the Churches cap. 1. sect 1. pag. 1 2. Stephan in Concord N. T. Mr. Leigh Crit. Sac. N. T. p. 7. Beza 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 achava pro fratrum coetu Calvin Pro fratribus collectivè sumptis English Divines and Lorin ipsam Ecclesiam Esthius Qui regeneratione fratres sunt Piscator 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 die brudâ—rschaff id est totam multitudinem fratrum sic infra 5. v. 9. sic Latini nobilitatem pro nobilibus Cyprian lib. 3. Epist. 17. Cum fraternitatis nostrae vel utilitas vel necessitas sic utique gubernetur fraternitatem universam meo nomine salutate So Cypr. lib. 3. c. 18. Augustine Basilius Epist. ad Galliae Episcopos fratres If brethren Church be all one women must be no members of the Church M. H. makes censuring no act of ruling Cottons Keyes c. 4. n. 2. p. 16. Excommunication is one of the highest acts of rule in the Church and therefore cannot be performed but by some Rulers Now where the Elders are cuâ—pable there be no Rulers left in that Church to censure them Lâ—x-Rex 〈◊〉 6. pag. 28 29 seq Page 191. M. H. abusâ—s but expounds not the place Heb. 13 17. in making all pastoral autority over the people to be in the pastors presiding and ordering of the meeting in the censures especially of Excommunication Calvin Ut plebs fidem reverentiam pastoâ—â—bus habeat â—arâ—us Obedient in domino Marlorat In summo pretio habeant cum charitate 1 Thess. 〈◊〉 12. Piscat Hortatur ad obedientiam erga ipsorum duces ductores id est pastores â—â—ctores gubernatores Cajetan Subditos ad obedientiam hortatur Esthius idem Survey par 〈◊〉 c. 11. sect 2. p. 192. Cypr. lib. 〈◊〉 Eâ— 4. paâ— 1. ca. 11 p. 186. Par. 1. c. 2. p. â—5 The way of our brethren in most of 〈◊〉 pâ—…ples is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Episcopius Arminianorum antesignanus in respons ad diâ—eÌ„mata decem Pentificia to 2. quaesit 2. p. 255. NuspiaÌ„ sub Ecclesiae nomine pastores Episcopi Doctores veniunt uti videre est Act. 14. 1. 14. 22. 15. 12. 20. 17 18. 1 Cor. 12. 18. 14. 4. Philip. 1. 11. pag. 156. Si quaesitor secundo sensu à nobis judicato Ecclesiae vocem sumit unam sanctam ca holicam Christianam multitudinem vere pâ—o um simplicium Christianorum reperiri qui ubique in sacris Christâ— oves aut ovâ—le Christi corpus Ecclesia vocantur pro certo etâ—aÌ„ apâ—d nos esse professioâ—em cum dicimus notâ—m Ecclesiae inquit idâ—m Episcop part 3. disp 28. thes 9. eam intelligi volumus quâ non singulitantum sed plerique singulatim doctrinam Christi salutarem profitentur dictis ac factis sed juncti etiam ea faciunt quae Deus fieri voluit quae non nisi in coetu fieri possâ—nt Remonst in declaraâ— suâ c. 22. 〈◊〉 9 10. thes 7. Externâ—m mandatorum Jesu Christi observationem nâ—tam esse Arminius in disp 54. 11. 8. signa haec sunt verae fidei professio vitae sâ—cundum spiritus praescriptum instinctum institutio quod ad externas actiones attinet de quibus â—olis judicare possumus homines disp 58. 11. 3. Concilium nullum maxime orthodoxum potest successoribus suis praescribere Episcop par 3. disp 31. 11. 12. nec enim fas est ut quis se socium in celebratione nominis ac beneficiorum Jesu Christi faciat ejus quem niâ—il minus quem Christianum esse novit Ecce manifesta est separatio prorsus illicita Idem â—â—sp 32. th 5. Si vero ad decidendum alicujus in religione capâ—tâ— sive veritatem sive necessitatem indicantur non tantum non utiles esse conventus sed pericalosos etiam tyrannicos asserâ—mus R menst â—eclar c. 25. th 2. 6. conditio Synodorum si quod in iis statutum est libere semper examini 1 Ioh 4. 1. 1 Thess. 5. 21. ulteriori tevisioni subjectum relinquâ—tur R monst Apolog. c 22. Scriptura testatur nos per fidem fieri filios Dei membra corporâ—s Jesu Christi imâ— corpuâ— Jesu Christi visibile de quo lâ—quuntur ut unum quidem corpus cum eo esse per eundemque fiuci spiritum Ioan. Volkelius Socinianus de vera Religione Lib. 6. cap. 1. Particularis Ecclesia eo hominum coetu continetur qui in certo quodam loco convocatus est veluti est Ecclesia unius domus ac familiae c. 15. p. 690. Animadvertendum est Ecclesiam loci illius in quo res ista geritur totam in unum locum â—ogendam esse ut nimirum tum omnes de ejus qui excommunicandus est peccato justissimum judicium faciant tum ipsius animadversâ malâ—tiâ uno consensu eum in Christi membris nullo pacto haberi posse statuant c. 16. p. 695. Ubi sit vera Ecclesia res non est scitu necessaria ad salutem c. 17. p. 669 700. Nullae sint notae aspectabilis Ecclesiae quas credis esse has assignatas à Protestantibus non sint verae Theoph. Nicolaides de Ecclesia missione Ministrorum râ—su cap. 2. p. 9. Ego ostendo Socinum affirmare quaestionem de Ecclesia non omnem sed aliquam nempe quaenam apud quos sit esse non simpliciter absolutè sed vel propemodum vel modo quodam inutilem resut c. 3. p. 27 28. Certe etiamsi in Ecclesia esse possunt tam boni quam mali non est tamen vera Christi adspectabilis Ecclesia in qua mali sunt perpetuo Nam mali qui sunt in Ecclesia qua mali ferendi non sunt sed aut ad frugem perducendi vel tandem excommunicandi ita ut dici non posset jure ita plane Robinsonus in Ecclesia esse vel bonos vel