upon the same grounds turn Christianity out of doors and own it to be built on no better foundation than the Ignorant Zeal and Confidence of its Asserters The Motive of St. Augustin for his embracing the Scriptures for the Word of God was the Authority of the Catholic Church he expresly declaring cont Ep. Fundam That he would not believe the Gospel except the Authority of the Catholic Church mov'd him to it From this same Authority it is he receives every Article of his Faith and since in his very Creed he is taught to believe the Holy Catholic Church he thinks he has Reason enough to do it And whosoever taxes him of Weakness or Confidence for so doing do's nothing less than call him a Fool for believing his Creed and this is only one Remove from telling him that if he 'll be Wise and have good Reasons for what he do's he must be no Christian Others may be so Wise as to believe only Eleven Articles of their Creed for his part he thinks it no reflection upon his Wisdom to believe Twelve he was taught so many when he was a Child and he do's not find he has outgrown any one of the number This Catholic Church which by the Creed every Christian is bound to believe is as was explicated in our last the Congregation of all true Believers under the Government and Direction of Pastors and Teachers in an uninterrupted Succession descending from the Apostles who by Gods appointment are set over the Flock to feed and rule it and whom the Flock is oblig'd to hear and obey and whose Faith they are bound to follow in each respective Age. 'T is thus deliver'd to him by St. Paul Heb. 13. 7 17. Remember them which have the Rule over you whose Faith follow Obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves And this way of the Faithful receiving their Instruction in the Christian Belief from the Catholic Church speaking to them by the Pastors and Teachers of the said Church which is the Method he observes as to every Article of his Faith has been always look'd on so sound and reasonable that in the time of the very Apostles and of the Primitive Church there was never any us'd but this 't was by this means the World first became Christian and by the very same Orthodox Christianity has been always preserv'd in its vigour and purity notwithstanding all the oppositions of Subtle Malicious or Self-interested Adversaries He that has but read the Scriptures cannot but have observ'd that the Method prescrib'd by Cbrist himself for the planting and propagating the Mysteries of his Holy Faith in the World was by ordaining and commissionating Apostles and Disciples to inform all Mankind of his Doctrine and Religion and the only Reasonable Means for any at that time to arrive to the certain Knowledge of the True Faith was to hear and submit to the Doctrine deliver'd by Those that were thus sent to Preach and Teach it This is the way by which the Christian Religion was first planted in the World and by this it has been ever since maintain'd The same Pastors and Overseers that were to teach the Gospel having another part of their Charge viz. To stand up in case of any Difficulties or Divisions arising in Point of Faith and by their Decision to put an end to the Controversie So to preserve Unity amongst the Faithful and defeat all the attempts of Turbulent and Presuming Spirits This Method of Pastors and Teachers directing and feeding and the Obligation of the Flock to Submit and Obey as necessary for continuing One Faith amongst Believers he has learnt to be Reasonable and of Divine Institution from the Practice of the Apostles For he finds Acts 15. that a Controversie being started at Antioch concerning the necessity of Circumcision 't was not left to every Particular Believer to think and decide the matter as they judge fit according to the best of their Knowledge and Parts neither did Paul and Barnabas with other Overseers of the Church of Antioch undertake to define any thing in this Particular No what was the Common Concern of all Christians was not to be determin'd by the Rulers and Pastors of any Particular Church but as belonging to All 't was to be remitted to the Consideration and Decision of Those who had All under their Charge that is the Pastors of the Vniversal or Catholic Church And thus did Paul and Barnabas for going up to Jerusalem the Cause was committed to the Hearing and Sentence of All the Apostles and Elders assembled at Jurusalem And as 't was determin'd by Them thus in Body 't was receiv'd by the Faithful with consolation not only at Antioch but in all other Places wheresoever the Gospel of Christ was preach'd by the Apostles who as they went through the Cities deliver'd them the Decrees for to keep that were ordain'd of the Apostles and Elders who were at Jerusalem Act. 16. 4. This was the Practice of the Apostles as it stands recorded in Holy Writ providentially there describ'd that their Successors the Rulers and Pastors of the Church in future Ages from this Authentic President might be provided of a Means whereby to maintain a Vnity in Faith amongst all True Believers however spread throughout the different and divided Nations of the Universe and know how to give a check to all growing Schisms and Heresies As therefore the Apostles put a stop to this Debate concerning the Circumcision by determining in Council in what manner the Faithful were to be taught were to believe and do in this Particular and by this Determination preserv'd the Vnity of Spirit in the Bond of Peace amongst the Faithful and prevented the many Divisions which otherwise might have torn the Flock asunder had they been every one lest to their own thoughts to judge of it as they pleas'd In like manner did the Pastors of the Church succeeding them in their Charge in the like Circumstances for when there appear'd any entring in among the Flock as was foretold by St. Paul Act. 20. 29. and like grievous Wolves not sparing it but speaking Perverse things to draw away Disciples after them The Overseers who were to feed the Church of God and commanded by the same Apostle to Watch and take heed to all the Flock ib. v. 28. assembled in Council and by their Determination declar'd to all under their Charge the Faith deliver'd and directed them which way to believe as to the Point in debate This was the Practice of the Primitive Church when as yet acknowledg'd Pure and Vncorrupted Thus did the Pastors then in the First General Council at Nice decide the Controversie rais'd by Arius thus they did in the Second at Constantinople in the Third at Ephesus in the Foutth at Chalcedon The Faithful always receiving with great Veneration the Determination of their Pastors thus Assembled and looking upon this Submission to their Doctrine as the most Reasonable Means whereby
Alas the Protestant Church in the Time of Luther c. was but in her Nonage and what wonder is it if We standing upon their Shoulders see farther than They Repres Then we are like to have Old Protestancy I see and New Protestancy a Protestancy of Luther and a Protestancy of those that stand upon Luther's Shoulders And who knows but some other Doctors in the next Age may set their Feet upon your Shoulders and see as far beyond you as you think you do beyond Luther As far as I see The Reforming Humovr is not so much out of Fashion but all this is possible And tho' the Word of late be STAND FAST yet this cannot be very effectual when Those that give it never knew what 't was to Stand Fast themselves They that have no other Being but what they gain'd by a Violent Breaking loose and Separation Argue but weakly when they cry to their Followers to HOLD FAST When Doctrine and Example go together it moves powerfully but when the Example is a Confutation of the Doctrine it sinks not beyond the Ear and is no more to the purpose than for a Rebel to Preach up Loyalty and Obedience to his Followers Misrep Whither are you gone Why the Protestancy of the First Reformers and Our Protestancy is much at one only Luther and his Contemporaries were for Reforming the Primitive Fathers taking them for as rank Papists as those that we found in the Time of King Henry 8. And we take them for Good Sound Protestants and regulate our Belief and Doctrine according to what was then generally Taught by them and Practis'd Repres So that Those Fathers it seems whom Luther condemn'd as Superstitious Monkish and Accursed you follow as True-Protestants 'T is well Luther is gone before you if he were to come again he would as certainly throw you into the same List of Superstitious Monkish and Accursed as he did those Fathers whom you follow as Protestants but were rejected by him for Papists Misrep No such matter For tho' we believe as the Fathers believ'd yet we don't dissent in any material Point from Luther we accept of and own his Reformation and fear no Anathema from him tho' he were to have a Second Coming All the business is Luther Peter Martyr c. did not understand the Fathers They mistook their Meaning and thought them in their Writings to teach Popery and therefore declar'd them Accursed But Our Divines the Divines of these Days of clearer Light whose Discerning Faculties are more Pure and more Refin'd than those that went before them have now Examin'd the Works of the Fathers with a stricter Eye and find all that in the Fathers to be Stanch-Protestancy which Luther and his Followers mistook for Popery Repres How so Man What strange Discovery is this Misrep Nothing strange at all 'T is only by the Natural Art of Interpretation 'T is but the Application of three or four Significant Words to the Popish Expressions of the Fathers and forthwith they appear all in as true a Protestant Dress as if the Fathers of the XXXIX Articles had been the Authors Repres What this is some Controversial Legerdermain I le warrant you You 'l favour me with a sight of it who knows what Effect it may have upon me If it do's not make a Convert of me at least I shall undoubtedly admire the Art and Industry of the Operators Misrep You are upon your Rallery However produce you any of what you take for the most Popish Sayings of the Fathers even those very Sayings for which They were condemn'd by Luther for Papists and you shall soon see I le make good what I tell you I don 't like Empty Quacks promise more than I le perform Repres Let 's see then As to Invocation of Saints We quote St. Gregory Nyssen who thus directs himself to S. Theodore Martyr Orat. de S. Theod. Intercede and Pray for our Country to the Lord of the Vniverse Thou hast left this World yet thou knowest our Desires our Wants and the Necessities of Human Life Ask for Peace We quote likewise S. Gregory Nazianzen who thus Addresses himself to S. Cyprian Orat 18. in S. Cyprian Do you full of Compassion look upon us from Heaven direct our Words and Life and help me who have the Charge of this holy Flock The like we read in St. Chrysostom St. Ambrose St. Jerome St. Austin c. And for this very Reason are these Fathers reprov'd by former Protestants as infected with Popish Errors and spotted with Superstitious Doctrines Now how do you make this a Protestant Doctrine Misrep Why look you now with one Word I turn all this Popery into Protestantism These Sayings of the Fathers are not Prayers to the Saints but only so many Rhetorical Flights or Innocent Wishes and what 's become of all the Popery now But proceed have you any more Repres This is as good as the Powder of Pimperlimpimp a German Artist cou'd not make a more Expedite and Undiscernible Conversion But pray let 's have some more of this We quote for the Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome some Passages of the First General Councils in which he is stil'd Head and of some Ancient Fathers who acknowledge his Jurisdiction and obey his Orders tho' being Prelates not of the Western but of the Eastern and African Church Misrep These are nothing but Complements Repres Good agen We quote likewise upon the same Subject St. Irenaeus who lib. 3. c. 3. adv Haer. says that All Churches ought to accord to the Roman Church in regard of her more Powerful Principality And Others who call it the head-Head-Church adding that to its Bishop is given a Preeminence of Priesthood For which Sayings These Fathers are rejected by the Centurists Misrep Pish The Centurists understood them not These are only Expressions of Civil Respect and no acknowledgments of Authority Primacy or Jurisdiction They are nothing but Respectful Compellations and Words of Courtesie Repres We quote again upon this Subject The many Applications that were wont to be made by the Eastern and African Bishops to the Bishop of Rome wherein they acquainted him with the State of their Church-Affairs Gave an Account of their Faith Inform'd him of Heresies arising Requir'd his Assistance c. Misrep All this was only for the maintaining a Mutual and Brotherly Correspondence It means no more Repres We quote again in behalf of the Real Presence and Transubstantiation the Sayings of the Primitive Fathers affirming That as Christ chang'd Water into Wine at Cana of Galilee so at his Last Supper he chang'd Wine into his Blood. That the Flesh of Christ which we eat for our Salvation ought to be Ador'd and that we Sin in not Adoring it That the Words of Christ cannot deceive us or be untrue but our Sense is very often deceiv'd Since therefore He has said This is my Body let us be Convinc'd and Believe That He that Sanctifies and Changes the
see Misrepresenter how many different Conceptions of the Mind and Affections or Motions of the Heart are express'd by this one and the same Word Worship And all these the Papists give to these several Objects due proportion being always observ'd according to their different Degree of Excellency So that tho they are all call'd by the same Name of Worship yet it signifies a different Affection of the Soul as due to each respective Object Upon this hinge turns this Controversie and if you would be so sincere as to explicate this Truth and not presently make every thing Idolatry where you see a Worship paid much of this Unchristian Wrangling which has disturbed the World these hundred and fifty years might be prevented for the future Mr. Thorndike was so honest as to give this notice to his Readers Epil p. 3. p. 353. Where he says that the words Adoration Worship Respect Reverence or howsoever you translate the word Cultus are or may be in despite of our hearts equivocal and the cause of this equivocation is the want of Words properly to signifie Conceptions which came not from common use St. Augustine declar'd this Truth long ago l. 10. de Civit. Dei c. 1. where he shews all these Words Servitus Cultus Religio Pietas Service Worship Religion Piety to be Equivocal and may be applied both to God and Creatures And thus Catholics many times use them without the least entrenching upon the Divine Prerogative or scandal to their Neighbour which had never been heightned to that degree as is at this day had not some as the Pharisees did to our B. Saviour stood by and taken as much pains to wrest every thing into a Wrong Sense as Charity obliges to interpret in a Right one And as Worship is understood in all this latitude 't is hard to make it out that Men are to pray to every thing they Worship or that Prayer is necessarily depending on it But then again if the Catechism by his Praying to means no more than Praying at or before Images I have nothing to say to it I only complain'd of it because by his Expression as it stands there he seems willing to have his Reader understand it that the Papists so pray to Images as if they expected to be heard by them or that They should obtain or grant their Request which is a most foul Misrepresentation But as for Praying before them 't is what we own and Practice And since to at and before come to be all one with him let the Words of Abjuration quoted by Spelman be thus Understood as Dr. Stillingfleet makes Bowing to the Name of Jesus and at it Idol of Ch. R. p. 111. Ed. 1. to be the same and then it plainly declares our Doctrine and we shall not fall out much upon this matter Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's most Excellent Majesty for His Houshold and Chappel 1686. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. VI. The Papist do's not believe but upon most Convincing Reasons Mysteries of Faith above Reason not contrary to it The Papist is not depriv'd of the Word of God nor kept from the Knowledge of the Gospel He does not Pray to the Cross more than Protestants pray to their Bibles or the Sacrament Three Protestant Queries Answered THe Papist Misrepresented knows no reason for the Religion he professes He 's over-ruled by Authority and is forc'd to submit his Belief to such Points as are contrary to his Reason He 's depriv'd of the Word of God and kept in a miserable Ignorance of his Duty both to God and his Neighbour THe Papist Represented very commendably enquires into the Reasonableness of his Belief He searches into the Motives of his Faith and here applys all the Reason he is able to Examine Consider Weigh and Judge of things aright not taking one step forward in order to give the least assent by Faith till his Judgment is thoroughly convinced that in Reason he 's bound to do it and that he should be self-condemn'd by his own Knowledge or Conscience if he did not submit upon such Evidence and full conviction This is what he is taught to do as to the Motives or Reasons of his Believing all those Points which are purely Mysteries of Faith. But although he has good Reason for giving his assent by Faith to all the Articles of Christian Religion Yet because the greatest part of them are above his Reason and therefore properly call'd Mysteries he cannot pretend to measure them by his short-sighted Reason no more than take the demensions of the Heavens by his Span which are out of his reach For how can Reason without a daring Presumption undertake to fathom such things which however agreeable to the Infinite Vnderstanding of God bear no proportion with any Created Faculties whilst encompassed with Flesh In the Mysteries therefore of his Faith his Reason is over-rul'd by Authority so that in these he goes much farther than his Reason will carry him His Reason indeed directs him to the Authority but then having discover'd this his Faith follows with Certainty and Security where Reason can give her no Light. Misrepresent Vpon this account it is I declare to my Followers that the Papists believe without Reason that whosoever will be a Papist must cast a Blind over all his Rational Faculties and by a slavish Obedience submit his Faith without controul Represent And for this very reason you are a Misrepresenter and slander the Papists For the Papists use their Reason as much as any Protestant in the World can do I have told you already they apply their Reason to search with the strictest scrutiny into all the Motives which are apt to make a thing Credible and never Submit their Faith but where their Reason upon the strongest and most convincing Arguments obliges them to it and that so forcibly that 't would be a contradiction to their Reason not to submit Can any Protestant do more than this Misrepresent Yes We search into the very Mysteries of the Christian Faith and believe no farther than is agreeable to our Reason at least so as not to be against it A Protestant by his Religion is so reasonable a Creature that no Authority in the World can oblige him to believe contrary to his Reason he 'll believe things above his Reason but not contrary to it Represent Thus you deceive your selves and all that follow you Why all this is nothing but what the Papists are taught to do You pretend to Reformation condemning the Papists for going Blindfold and yet what you do is downright Popery There 's no Papist in the World is taught to believe contrary to Reason they believe such Mysteries as are above Reason but nothing contrary to it Let me examine you a little in this Point and we shall soon find what agreement there is betwixt us You believe the Mysteries of the Trinity and Incarnation Misrepresent Yes Represent But can any
expected he should know or deliver truly the Doctrine of our Church who is so unhappy as not to know his own Mind But in one breath desires to be inform'd and Vows to follow wheresoever Truth â—or Charity shall lead him and in the very next without condition or reserve desires rather to die than to move one step from where he stands No this coming with Vow'd Docility in one hand and sturdy Presumption in the other is no good Argument of Sincerity and Honesty the qualities he so eagerly pretends to and ungroundedly questions in me Misrepresent Well but he has prov'd beyond the possibility of Reply that the Papists are on the Uncharitable side and Protestants on the Charitable out of your own Authors and your Charitable Doctrine to be new Popery Represent You have his Word for 't p. 8. But any besides a Layman will call it only a Say-so instead of a Proof His Protestant Charity which he even boasts of is the granting Salvation to Papists upon no other score than Invincible Ignorance and for this he thinks them p. 6. Charitable to a high degree And yet this is the very same Charity Papists have for Protestants the allowing of Salvation possible for such as through invincible Ignorance remain separate from the Church being a common opinion of the Modern and Antient Schoolmen And all those who pronounce so severely against Protestants 't is against Protestants remaining such as he words it p. 8. that is Obstinately and Pertinaciously continuing in Error and Schism in which circumstances Papists too are allow'd no claim to Salvation by Protestants Now where 's the Contradictions and the two sorts of Popery he brags of p. 8. Come Misrepresenter I look upon your Friends put to a hard shift when they begin to talk of New Popery They have been making the Papists odious these hundred Years for their Vncharitableness to Protestants and now the Disguise begins to wear off and the Papists appear as Charitable as Protestants nothing can serve to amuse the people and hinder their seeing the delusion but the noise of New Popery This may do with some but methinks a Sincâ—â—e Layman who desires to be led into all Truth p. 5. might be glad to find Men better than he thought them and not seek for one disguise to palliate another If his mind be tinctur'd with the Blood that runs in his Veins p. 11. yet assure him a Friend of his wishes heartily 't wou'd flow something Cooler and cause in him a more Even Pulse than to require as he does p. 12 nothing less than an Infallible Certainty to better his Opinion of the Papists whilst yet a Fallible Perswasion will content him for all the rest of his Religion Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel MDCLXXXVI THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. IX The Scriptures not always the Same to the same Person No Possibility of meeting in One Faith whil'st Private Reason sets up for Interpreter of the Word of God. The Sham-story of the Frogs and Crabs The Truth of the Anniversary Solemnity Misrepresent YOur last attempt of Proving the Scriptures to be as various in the Heads of Protestants as there are Heads amongst them was very Bold and I am perswaded now you are Cooler you 'l disown the Assertion Represent What I said was to lay before you the Reason why amongst the Catholics the Reading of the Bible is not promiscuously allow'd the Vulgar And to that end I shew'd you that the Ordinary People in all Nations being for the most part Vnlearned and Vnstable wheresoever the Canvassing the Scripture is freely permitted them without exception they generally understand it several ways and consequently what is the Scripture to Them is Multiplied and made as Numerous as their different Conceptions and Imaginations of it And now I 'll go farther with you for 't is not only thus in several People but even the same Person many times has the Faculty of Multiplyiâ—g the Word of God. For how many are to be found amongst the Vulgar who according to their different Humours as their Interest changes according to the different Impressions they receive from Confidents especially such as have gain'd their good Opinion espouse different Doctrines and Perswasions and run through as many Sects as there are Divisions in the Nation And yet in all their Windings they still follow as they imagine the Scriptures always guiding themselves by what they think the Word of God evidently speaks to them Don't you see how to these same Persons the Word of God is not always the same It alters according to Seasons and Times and 't was one Word of God directed them the last year another this and it may be another before the next So that tho' it be always the same Vnchangeable in their Hands as to the Letter yet it often changes in their Heads as the Meaning Misrepresent This is a fine Whim to undermine the Authority of the Scriptures But say what you will the Word of God is Plain Easie and Clear and God has given to every one Reason enough to Understand it the Reading it is comfortable the Following it a Duty And 't is an injury of the highest nature to deprive any tho the meanest Soul of so considerable a Blessing Represent If it be so Plain and Easie as you say how comes it there 's so little agreement in the Vnderstanding it How are there so many Different and Contrary Divisions Sects and Perswdsions in this One Nation How comes it that even in the Essentials of Christianity concerning the Trinity Incarnation the Divinity of Christ the Sacrament Baptism the Holy Catholic Church the Communion of Saints the Forgiveness of Sins the Resurrection of the Flesh c. there has been and at present is so great diversity amongst those that read the Scripture The business is you are for setting up every mans Private Reason to be Judge of Scripture If you have seen the Answer to the Protestant Plea for a Socinian you 'l find there p. 26. he points it out for the Mark of a Right Socinian to make Reason the Rule of the Scriptures Such a one says he makes Reason the Rule of that Rule And are not you far worse in this than the Rankest Socinian in the World whilst with him you do not make Common Reason the Measure of that Rule but every mans Private Reason which when put to the Test proves in Thousands and Thousands to be nothing better than Passion Prejudice Interest Imagination Guessing or Phancy Don't you find by experience there 's no such Trivial Proposal made but presently the Company 's divided there 's Head against Head Reason against Reason and this tho' the concern be but of Hay or Straw or the most obvious in the World Don't you see again that almost every Man's Reason is different as their Capacity Parts Education Temper Inclination Impressions are different
Clouts and some other Reports that have been warmly carried about this last Month by Men of all Coats came all out of the same Miâ—t And were it not that the People you deal with were so wonderfully short-memory'd when a Lie is discover'd and again so wretchedly Credulous when a Fresh one is Broach'd these Fictions would be your utter Confusion But I 'll tell you the Truth of all this matter There 's a Mourning Hearse indeed plac'd in the Chappels in Memory of the Deceas'd Party and Prayers are offer'd up for his Soul after the Practice of the Primitive Church in the time of her Purity above Thirteen hundred years ago and as 't was then perform'd to Constantine the First Christian Emperour whose Body after his Decease as 't is related by Eusebius l. 4. de Vit. Const c. 71. being expos'd upon a stately Throne great numbers of People together with the Priests offer'd up Prayers to God not without Sighs and Tears for the Soul of the Emperour thus performing a most acceptable Office to their Prince of Pious Memory And this Pious Office was not only perform'd to the Faithful Departed at the time of their Departure but every year at the return of that Day and thus says Tertullian l. 10. de Monog c. 10. speaking of a Christian Widow She prays for his her Husbands Soul and makes Oblations on the Anniversary days of his Departure This is what VVe now do and all that is perform'd in our Chappels but for the Erogs and Crabs they are no where but in your Brains Misrepresent I 'll send some to see within a day or two Represent You have enough ready to go upon such an Errand If they bring you any Crabs or Frogs thence pray let me have a sight of them Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel MDCLXXXVI THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. X. Private Interpretation of Scriptures the Occasion of Divisions Some Protestant Divines call in the assistance of Authority and Guides but all ends in the Private Spirit The Question started Where was the Protestant Religion as it is now Reform'd before Luther The Answers of some Protestant Divines Represent YOu broke off my last Discourse with your Dream of Frogs and Crabs But I 'll take it up now and therefore I must tell you I cannot but admire your Procedings in leaving the Holy Bible to the Vulgar to be scann'd and Interpreted by them at pleasure 'T is evident they being of Different Capacities and Inclinations they can never so agree in their Interpretations as to meet in One Faith to be of One Mind and One Spirit as is commanded by St. Paul. 1 Cor. 1. 10. This is too clearly Demonstrated in the Distractions of this our Nation where so many setting up for Interpreters of Scripture there are Religious Sects Divisions Perswasions Faiths and Creeds multiplyed without number to the scandal of the Christian Name every-one pretending to the Truth while yet these being so numerous the true Faith is but One One God and one Faith Eph. 4. 5. And the Reason of these divisions is obvious For tho' the Bible is but one in all their Hands yet this Sacred Book doe's not instruct and direct them but by certain means to be us'd on their part And these Means being according to D. Reynolds and Whitaker The reading it their conference of Places their weighing of the circumstances of the Text their skill in the Tongues their Diligence and Prayer How is it possible they should all agree in their Expositions of H. Writ since these Actions on their behalf are but Humane Endeavours Subject to Error Oversight Infirmity and as different as their several Parts and Capacities Can all compare Texts alike Can they all weigh Circumstances alike Are they all skill'd in Languages alike How then shall they be instructed and directed alike when their Instruction and Direction as to the Christian Faith depends upon these Means And while they thus rely on their own endeavours their own searching and interpreting the Scriptures as the Means whereby to arrive to the True Faith is it not a miserable thing to consider that these Divided Christians having rejected the Interpretation of the Catholic Church do now every one rely on so unsafe Means for their Faith and Salvation that no man dares trust to but themselves that is every Private Person on his own Private Search and Interpretation of H. Writ Which whilst every one depends on for himself yet no body dares trust to besides nor think it sufficient whereon to build their Salvation And the result of this is to bring all to the Private Spirit Misrepresent I have let you run on so long declaiming against the Interpretations of the Private Spirit to see what you wou'd be at And now you have spent so much breath you have at last said nothing but in the air Why We are not for the Private Spirit If you read Mr. Sa. Crispe 's Sermon at the Primary Visitation of the Bishop of Norwich 1686. You 'l see the Guidance of the Private Spirit prov'd nothing better than Enthusiasm p. 6. That it has made so much havock in the World in the worst designs in the murder of Princes the overturning of Kingdoms and Churches that there is nothing so vile or Monstrous Earthly sensual or devilish but if this pretence be admitted may pass for Inspiration And that consequently 't is not to be rely'd on as proper to conduct any to salvation He declares plainly the necessity of a Guide in this affair And that all those who desire not to miss their way must not only apply themselves with due modesty to the searching the Scriptures but must likewise carefully use the Ministerial Aids of the Christian Church And the reason why so many are given over to Strong Delusions and to believe a Lye He says p. 7. is because out of Pride or Wantonness they forsake the Guides of Gods appointment The like application to Church Guides or Ministerial Helps is required by the Author of the Discourse concerning a Guide in matters of Faith p. 38. as likewise by the late Discourse Concerning a Judge of Controversies So that you see These Protestant Divines are not for encouraging the Enthusiasms of every mans Private Interpretation of Scripture No they are for a just deference to Authority and the use of Guides Represent I confess some of them to keep up the Face of a Church do Speculatively contend for Authority and Guides but then in Fact they again defeat all these their Pretensions whilst they own no Authority to be so Great or Safe with them but 't is to be subjected to the control of every Private Examiner and so to be follow'd or not follow'd as every man in his own Private Capacity shall think fit So that the Vltimate Appeal with them is not to Authority but to the Private Spirit They maintain the
Authority of the Church as being to decide Controversies of Faith Art. 20. and this is not to ordain or enforce any thing to be believ'd that is against the Scripture But whether that which it decides be against or according to Scripture this every man is to decide again by his own private Reason They maintain the Authority of General Councils But because these may err Art. 21. their Decrees have neither Strength nor Authority unless it may be declar'd that they be taken out of Holy Scripture But whether de facto they be taken out of Scripture or no this every Private Man must judge for himself And this Dr. Burnet asserts positively in his Exam. of Meth. p. 82. The Principle of Protestants with relation to the majority even in a General Council is That when any Doctrines are establish'd or condemn'd upon the Authorities of the Scriptures those who differ from them and do think that the Council misunderstood the Scriptures are bound to suspect themselves a little and to review the matter with greater application Yet if they are requir'd to profess that they believe opinions which they think false if they were never so inconsiderable no man ought to go against his Conscience And if any Synod of Protestants has decreed any thing contrary to this in so far they have departed from the Protestant Principles But the whole matter is more fully express'd by the Author of the Discourse before mentioned Concerning a Judge of Controversy Who p. 11. at the bottom clears it thus If you ask whose Judgment ought to take place the Judgment of the Church or of every private Christian I answer says he and mark it The Judgment of the Church of necessity must take place as to external Government to determine what shall be profess'd and practis'd in her Communion and no private Christian has any thing to do in these matters But when the Question is What is Right or Wrong True or False in what we may obey and in what not Here every Private Christian who will not believe without understanding nor follow his Guides blindfold must judge for himself and 't is as much as his Soul is worth to judge right Don't you see here there 's no Authority so Great and Safe amongst them but what is to be subject to the Censure of every Private Christian And tho' there be the Name of such a thing as a Church yet let that Command prescribe and ordain what it will to be receiv'd as the Truth and Faith of Christ 't is not That is to be obey'd or believ'd but being esteem'd as a piece of Formality not to be relied on every Man when he thinks fit must set himself up above Church and Authority and ee'n judge for himself Is not here every Controversy left to the decision of the Private Spirit And under the Notion of a Church a gate open'd to all the Fanaticisms and Quakerisms in the World By the Creed all Christians are bound to Believe the Holy Catholic Church And St. Paul Heb. 13. v. 7. commands all to Obey and Submit to those that are over them and this not only as to External Government but likewise as to Truth and Belief and therefore says he v. 7. Whose Faith follow But here you see tho' your Divines maintain the Authority of a Church yet there 's no Obligation on any Members of submitting to it as to any Point of Faith They must acknowledge it indeed as to the Governing or Politic part But as to the Christian or Believing part here every Christian as to what he is to obey and what not is to judge for himself And pray now what do's all this end in but the Private Spirit Can it desire any fairer Plea than this Certainly this their Church were it the Catholic Church the Ground and Pillar of Truth 't would not thus be commendably left to be over-rul'd by every Private Man's Reason There would not be this liberty for every one to run astray from it by preferring their own Judgment before the Decision and Judgment of the Church 'T was said heretofore and we know by whom Let him that do's not hear the Church he as a Heathen and a Publican But now it seems That Man alone is as Blind as a Heathen or Publican who do's not rather hear himself than the Church I wonder how long this has been so Misrepresent I le warrant you now you have got in your Head the Question Where was the Protestant Church before Luther But don't reproach this Church and perswade the World she is as yet but in her Infancy If you have seen a Book entit'led The Antiquity of the Protestant Religion You 'l see it there prov'd That the Protestant Religion was Anciently and Generally profest in the Christian World before the Reformation p. 1. Represent You have brought in this Question now by Head and Shoulders But since 't is staâ—ted satisfie me so far as to let me know where this Church was before the Pretended Reformation In what Country or Nation was it Visible Whether in the Eastern or Western World We have a fair Historical account of it from Luther's time to our days But I would willingly know where it was in all those Fifteen Hundred years from Christ's Ascension to the coming of the Prophet Luther as he is styl'd by Slydan Misrepresent Why this Author of the Antiquity of the Protestant Religion asserts it positively and proves That the Protestant Religion was Anciently and Generally profest in the Christian World before the Reformation And sure you that pretend to History and Religion cannot be ignorant Where that Religion was which was Anciently and Generally profest amongst Christians throughout the World. Represent Certainly then This Man must have had some extraordinary Revelation or made some New Discovery For the former Protestants who liv'd nearer Luthâ—r's time knew nothing of this Religion being Generally profess'd â—oannes Regius lib. Apol p. 176 Bishop Jewel Apol. p. 4. c. 4. d. 2. and Mr. Parkins Eâ—poâ— Cre p. 400. confeâ—s that before the days of Luther and Zuingliâ— the Church viz. Protestant was Invisible unknown unheard of that for the space of many hundred years an Vniversal Apostacy overspread the Whole face of the Earth and this Church was not then visible to the World. So that by what I see Authors don't agree in this matter And then besides this in a late Famillar Discourse betwixt a Minister and his Parishioner The Question being propos'd p. 14 Where was your Religion as it is now reform'd when Luther began his Reformation As to this particular the Minister answers It may be 't was in the Greek in the Abassine and Aegyptian Churches amongst the Armenian Christians It may be 't was in a Corner under a Cloud covered with Rubbish What if we say 't was no where Misrepresent Well and what then Represent Nothing but that I see 't is very hard to be found some find it Generally profess'd
And what think you now Misrepresenter tell me your Opinion was the Protestant Religion Anciently and Generally profess'd and practis'd in these Primitive Times when Constantine govern'd both the Western and Eastern World Do's the Church in his time practising as you have now seen acknowledg'd by unquestionable Authorities look like a Protestant Church If you know what 't is to be a Protestant tell me your mind Was Constantine and his Church Protestants or no Misrepresent You have hunted out for all the Superstâ—tions Errors and Oversights of that Age and now ask Whether the Professors were Protestants And I answer you They were Protestants as to the Doctrine of the Gospel and Creed which they profess'd tho' not as to their Oversights and Errors Represent That is to say in plain English They were Protestants as the Papists now are Protestants Any honest man by your appeal to and Pretext of Reformation according to the Primitive Times would have expected to have found a Protestant Religion profess'd and practis'd in those times as 't is now here in this Nation by Law establish'd And yet when we have taken a Prospect of those Primiâ—ive Ages we find the Christians then living Professors of no other Protestancy than such as is seen practis'd at this day in their Majesties Chappels at White-Hall Somerset house and St. James's and that I think is a Protestancy which is call'd Popery Misrepresent Why in our Reformation we are no more oblig'd to take in the Errors of Constantine 's time than those Corruptions we found in the time of Henry 8. No we Reform according to the Purity of the Gospel and have no other Rule than that of the Word of God Instructing and Directing us And as for all Superstitions they are alike rejected by us tho' some have Antiquity to plead in their behalf Represent Then I see however you pretend your Reformation has reduc'd Christianity to that state as 't was profess'd in the Primitive Times Yet when we come to look into those times thinking to find a Flourishing Uncontrol'd Protestancy Generally and Publickly Profess'd we are still as far to seek for 't as before and all that appears is the Doctrine of the Creed and Gospel profess'd but together with what you call the Errors and Superstitions of Popery so that to be a Protestant according to the Primitive Times is nothing else but to be a Papist Certainly this must be a very surprising disappointment to some to find Constantine the Great and Eusebius his Historian to be such kind of Popish Protestants as these who yet are set down by your Dr. Swadlin as the Ancient Protestants according to whose Faith and Practice the present Reformation was regulated and against whose Positions says he Ans 11. if we hold any thing name it we answer it prove it we yield So that let me tell you By what I can see as yet when a man has taken the pains to look back to those Primitive Ages he can be no more satisfied where the Protestant Religion as 't is now Reform'd was in the time of Constantine than when Luther began the Reformation but after all his search he must rest contented either with the Plain Mans Reply of its being Home where or other or else with the same It may be as was given to the Parishioner It may be 't was in the Greek in the Abassin and Egyptian Churches amongst the Armenian Christians It may be 't was in a Corner under a Cloud cover'd with Rubbish What if we say 't was no where Famil Discourse betwixt a Minister and Parishioner p. 14. ADVERTISEMENT THis is to give notice That this last Week were sound here in London several Good Protestant Lies concerning Flying Crabs seen in the Chappel at Somerset-house and of the Parish Church of St. James's in the Fields being undermin'd by the Papists and in danger of being demolished by Fire-Balls If the Right Owners will appear they shall be restor'd to them without Cost or Charges and if any will produce them they shall be well rewarded for their Pains Publish'd with Allowance Publish'd with Allowance Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel MDC LXXX VI. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. XII Protestant Historians shew us Popery in the Primitive Church under Constantine but no Protestancy The Christians of that Age never Protested against the Popish Doctrines professedly Taught and Practis'd in those times Therefore they were no Protestants An Enquiry into the Religion of the Ages succeeding Constantine Represent IF you remember at our last meeting Misrepresenter we were looking back into the Primitive Times to see if we could find there the Protestant Religion as 't is now reform'd Generally Profess'd and Practis'd amongst the Christians of that Purer Age. But we lost our labour and all the Hopes You came big with ended in nothing but a disappointment Misrepresent 'T would be a Miracle indeed to find it as long as you have the carrying and management of the Light by which we are to make the Discovery Represent A short memory makes you Unreasonable Have you forgot so soon the very Means and Method by which we enter'd upon our Search were of your own Choice at least by approbation and consent Our business was to make enquiry after the Protestant Religion We agreed to examine the Religion Practis'd in Constantine's time who as your Dr. Swadlin says was a Protestant and in whose time according to your Divines the Protestant Religion was generally profess'd We took an account of the Religion of that Age from Eusebius a Protestant Professor too if you credit Dr. Swadlin and some other Modern Protestants The Translation of Eusebias we made use of was done by a Protestant approv'd and publish'd by Protestants and Printed at Cambridge Anno 1683. a Protestant Vniversity what possibly could be fairer done and more to your advantage And yet after all instead of meeting in those times with the Protestant Religion as now Reform'd we were got in the middle of Good Catholics Professing and Practising their Religion receiv'd from the Apostles pure as yet and uncorrupted as your Fulk and Calvin confess and such as you under the specious Pretext of Reformation have since made Odious and Criminal and done your best to hiss it out of the world Misrepresent The Reformers have preserv'd the Religion of those times Inviolable and have only labour'd to purge Christianity of the Errors then or since that time brought in to deform it Represent This is the proper Mark of the Beast Never a Reformer yet even from Arius to this Day but what has set up his Standard against Pretended Errors and Innovations And this is the stamp they set upon every thing that does not sute with their Humour Fancy or Interest The Reformers of the Reformation go by the same Rule and such as Reform agen upon those that Reform the Reformation still pursue this Method till at last they have
in his Sermon at Paul's Cross to all his Learned Adversaries the Papists to bring against the Protestant Doctrine any one sufficient Sentence out of any One Catholic Doctor or Father for the Space of Six hundred Years after Christ and he is content to yield Whitaker renews the same Challenge Resp ad rat Camp. p. 90. provoking the Papists to the first Six hundred Years and if they can produce any one Father or Council against the Protestant Articles he grants the Victory It is the Offer of us all says he the same do we all promise and we will perform it So that as far as I see I have not exceeded the Protestant Bounds Repres Neither have I in our Enquiry pass'd these Limits Our Search has been restrain'd within the Compass of the First Six hundred Years and the whole System of Popery I have laid before you has been the Belief and Practice of the Christians of those Times And this will oblige you to consider what Grounds you have to trust to for the Support of the Pretended Reformation whilst you see some eminent Protestants Appealing to the Primitive Church of the First Six hundred Years and Challenging the Papists to produce any One Doctor in favour of Popery within that Compass and yet other Protestants at the same time are charging the most Learned and Eminent Fathers of those Ages as Abbettors of Popery and reprove them for being infected with Popish Doctrines Misrepres This you have been often Saying but I must see it Prov'd Repres Do you keep then in your Mind the Challenge of Bishop Jewel above mention'd wherein he provokes the Papists to shew One Father holding against the Protestant Doctrine in the First Six hundred years and bidding them Defiance upon this Trial the like of Whitaker and others and I le let you see the Concessions of some other Protestants upon the same Subject But have Patience then 1. For the allowing Vows of Perpetual Chastity and affirming them to be Obligatory S. Basil Ambrose Chrysostome Epiphanius and S. Austin are reprov'd by Chemnitius Exam. p. 3. p. 41 42. And the General Council of Chalcedon is confess'd to have forbidden Marriage to Monks and Nuns by Just Molit de Eccl. Milit. p. 80. 2. As touching the Sacrament Chrysostom is thought to confirm Transubstantiation Centur. 5. col 517. Eusebius Emissenus did speak unprofitably of Transubstantiation Cent. 4. col 985. In Cyprian are many Sayings which seem to affirm Transubstantiation Ursin Commen p. 211. 3. As concerning Sacrifice it is affirm'd by Learned Protestants that the Ancient Fathers viz. Athanasius Ambrose Austin c. err'd herein So Calvin and Dr. Field who say of them that they made a Sacrifice of the Lords Supper The Centurists likewise affirm of Cyprian that his Judgment in this Point is Superstitious Cent. 3. col 83. That the Writings of Irenaeus and Ignatius are herein incommodious and dangerous Cent. 2. c. 4. col 55. And that presently after the Apostles Times the Supper of our Lord was turn'd into a Sacrifice sebas Franc. in Ep. de Abrog 4. Concerning Prayer for the Dead It was general in the Church lorg before the Days of Austin as appears in Cyprian and Tertullian So Mr. G. Gifford in his Demonst p. 38. Mr. Fulk likewise acknowledges that Tertullian Cyprian Austin Jerome and a great many more do witness that Sacrifice for the Dead is the Tradition of the Apostles Consut of Purg. p. 362. That Prayer and Alms were made for the Dead almost from the very beginning of the Church Bucer in Enar. 4. Evang. in Mat. c. 12. 5. Concerning Merit of Works Dr. Humfrey says It may not be deny'd but that Ireuaeus Clement and others who are call'd Apostolical Men have in their Writings the Opinions of Free-will and Merit of Works Jesuitism par 2. p. 530. Origen and Chrysostome are affirm'd by the Centuriators to have handled impurely the Doctrine of Justification and that they attribute Merit to Works Cent. 3. col 265. and Cent. 5. col 1178. And not only Cyprian but almost all the Holy Fathers of that Time were in that Error as thinking so to pay the Pain due to Sin and to satisfie Gods Justice Whitak in Resp ad Rat. Camp. Rat. 5. 6. Concerning Invocation of Saints The Lord Archbishop of Cant. Discoursing of Doctrines taught in any Age since the Apostles Times affirms without any Exception of Age or Father That almost all the Bishops and Writers of the Grâ—ek Church and Latin also for the most part were spotted with Doctrines of Free-will Merit Invocation of Saints c. Whitgift Def. ag Rep. of Cartw. p. 473. Mr. Fulk likewise says I confess that Ambrose Austin and Jerome held Invocation of Saints to be lawful Rejoyn to Brist p. 5. S Cyprian is charg'd by the Cent. to maintain That Martyrs and Saints departed pray for the Living Cent. 3. col 84. Origen likewise with Prayer for himself to Holy Job and Invocation of Angels Cent. 3 col 83. and col 75. The same Centurists affirm moreover That there are manifest Steps of Invocation of Saints in the Doctors of that Ancient Age. Cent. 3. c. 4. col 83. 7. Concerning Confession and Absolution The Centurists confess That even in those Times of Cyprian and Tertullian was us'd Private Confession and that the same was then commanded and thought necessary Cent. 3 c. 6. col 127. That also Penance or Satisfaction was enjoyn'd according to the Offence Ib. And likewise that the Priest when the Confession was made and Penance enjoyn'd did afterwards Absolve the Penitent with the Ceremony of Impâ—sing his Hand Cent. ib. 8. Concerning the Primacy of Peter above the other Apostles the Ancient Fathers of the Church viz. Jerome Hilary Nazianzen Tertullian Cyprian Origen are reprehended by the Protestant Centurists viz. for affirming the Church to be built upon Peter Cent. 4. col 1215 555 558 c. The same Centurists reprove S. Cyprian for teaching say they without any foundation of Scripture that the Roman Church ought to be acknowledg'd of all other for the Mâ—ther and Root of the Catholic Church Cent. 3. col 84. In like manner Irenaeus who as Hamelmannus says might yet remember the Apostles own lively Preaching is condemn'd by the Centurists for his affirming That all the Churches ought to accord to the Roman Church in regard of a more powerful Principality for which words they charge him with a corrupt Saying concerning the Primacy of the Roman Church Cent. 2. Alph. Tab. word Irenaeus And this Authority of the B. of Rome D. Philip Nicolai referreth for its beginning to the Infirmity of the Apostles and of the first succeeding Bishops of Rome in Comment de Reg. Christ p. 221. With whom concurs Mr. Middleton in his Papist Mast p. 193. No marvail therefore says he tho' perusing Councils Fathers and Stories from the Apostles forward we find the Print of the Popes Feet For these and all other Points of Catholic Doctrine the
currant Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers are so certain and evident that many Learned Protestants upon this Consideration refuse to stand the Test of their Authorities thinking it far more advantageous to their Cause to give them a general Disclaim Hence Mr. Whitaker affirms the Popish Religion to be patcht up out of the Fathers Errors Cont. Dur l. 6. p. 423. And Dr. Humfrey most severely reprehends Mr. Jewel for his so bold Appeal to the Primitive Fathers affirming that herein Mr. Jewel gave the Papists too large a scope was injurious to himself and after a manner spoil'd himself and the Church Misrepres So then I see you intend to claim the Fathers not only of Constantine 's Time and the Following Ages as Abettors of Popery but likewise Those who in the First Centuries immediately succeeded the Apostles And what Room then do you leave for Protestancy Repres 'T is not only I that claim Them but even the Protestants themselves you see of the precedent Age such who were not asham'd to speak the Truth make a surrender of them laying aside all Pretensions either to Them or their Doctrine And when they have disown'd all the Fathers one by one from Clement Ignatius Irenaeus who liv'd in the Apostles Days and succeeded them in their Function to S. Jerome Austin Leo Gregory the last of which surviv'd the Fifth Century when they have declar'd that Antichrist began his Reign and obscur'd the Light of the Gospel even from the Time of the Apostles I wonder what Room as you say there 's left for Protestancy It savours something of a Mystery methinks call'd Nonsense to say the Protestant Religion is the same Pure Religion as was Anciently and Generally Profess'd amongst the Fathers and Christians of the Primitive Church and then to condemn the same Fathers and Christians of the Primitive Church for being infected with Popery and giving way to Antichrist Wherefore to avoid these Inconveniences if you 'l take my Advice Misrepresenter I believe you had better pretend no longer Right to the Primitive Fathers but as you have condemn'd the Eight hundred Years next before the Reformation of Damnable Errors and Popish Superstitions to take one step further back and e'en take in the other Six hundred Years too and so condemn them all in the lump from Christ's Time to Luther for being Papists and Popishly affected Never Mince the matter They were all Men you know and subject to Error and when you are once in 't is as easily condemning your Fore-fathers for Fourteen Ages as for Eight Your First Reforming-Apostles were something of this mind and thought it no more difficulty to Censure and Condemn the Primitive Fathers than Those they found in the time of K. Henry 8. but were for Reforming all with the same Hand Hearken a little to your courageous Luther In the Writings says he of Jerome there is not a word of True Faith in Christ and Sound Religion Tertullian is very Superstitious I have held Origen long since Accursed of Chrysostome I make no account Basil is of no worth he is wholly a Monk I value him not of a Hair Cyprian is a Weak Divine The Apology of Philip Melancthon far excels all the Dostors of the Church and exceeds even Austin himself Coll. Mens c. de Patr. Eccles And in another place The Fathers says he of so many Ages have been plainly Blind and most Ignorant in the Scriptures They err'd all their Life-time and unless they were mended before their Deaths they were neither Saints nor pertaining to God's Church To. 2. l. de Serv. Arbit Peter Martyr is of the same mind and therefore says plainly That as long as we stand to Councils and Fathers we shall always remain infected with the same Errors viz. of Popery And certainly Misrepresenter these Your First Setters up for Reformation were in the Right on 't for nothing can possibly so strengthen Protestancy and justifie the Separation as this Levelling Divinity For your Going by halves and pretending to be of the Religion of the First Ages of the Church fills People with Doubts and Scruples whilst looking back upon the Professors of those Times instead of Protestancy they find so much Popery amongst them Publish'd with Allowance Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel M DC LXXX VI. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. XVI A New Way of making all the Popish Sayings of the Primitive Fathers to be Good Protestancy The Art of Interpreting do's Feats it makes way for Atheism and Infidelity Represent HOW stands your Head to day Misrepresenter have you Consider'd the Proposal I made you at our last Meeting Are you for disclaiming all Title to the Primitive Church and Huffing those Ancient Fathers as Luther Peter Martyr and others did who designing a Through-Reformation were alike for calling those Great Doctors to an account of the First Ages as they did those they found in the Time of King Henry 8 Or are you for Reforming upon These First Reformers and taking in those Primitive Fathers of the Church for Protestants which They cast off and Condemn'd for Papists Misrepres I have Consider'd this Matter very seriously and taken the Advice of Friends upon the Point And therefore to be short with you I value no more the Saying of Luther than he did Those Ancient Fathers whom he condemn'd as Weak Divines Superstitious and Valu'd not of a Hair. He was so near the Times of Darkness that he could not well look back and make Judgment of any thing behind him Repres Nay I commend you in this 't is only just to serve him in his kind 'T was Tertullian's Saying Curâ—â—nm idem licet Marcionitis quod Marcioni If Marcion has rebell'd against the Church why should his Followers think much to rebel against him And since Luther cast off all Authority and valu'd not the Writings and Doctrine of the most Eminent Fathers of the Primitive Church why shou'd any one think much of undervaluing him by his own Example If Luther could so easily throw by S. Cyprian for a Weak Divine and S. Basil for being wholly a Monk is not this Precedent enough for any Follower of Luther to cast him off for an Apostate Friar and an Ambitious Divine Well but if you Reform upon Luther in this Point and don 't think fit with him to lay aside all the Writings of the Ancient Fathers as Erroneous and Superstitious what do you do with all those troublesome Passages in their Works wherein They are such Positive Asserters of Popish Doctrines that 't is impossible for any Man to take the Authors for any thing but Papists which do's not well suit with your Claim to them as Protestants Misrepres Pish I value no more these Difficulties than Luther did the Fathers that is not of a Hair. If the First Reformers bad their Eyes but half open what 's that to us who have the Noon-light of the Gospel shining upon us