victory onely of your own abusive allegation or interpretation thereof Smoke Pag. 59. I did confider who was engaged a Parliament c. and had I not highly valued them I had not ventured so farre in my Quere Light Not so farre as to oppose retard and reproach the Church Government wherein they were so farre so publiquely engaged is this to value them to value them highly if such be the price you set upon such Honourable Patriots I shall never be ambitious of your good acceptation nor solicitous of your estimation of me whether the rate you set upon me be pretious or vile Smoke Pag. 59. I considered the fatall troubles which attended the Magistrates engagements with the Ministers Light If the Ministers engagements in Religion be right it is a happinesse that Magistrates be engaged with them and therefore on the one side promised as matter of great joy and glory to the Church that Kings should be unto it as nursing Fathers and Queenes as nursing Mothers Isa 49.23 and on the other required as a dutie to pray for Kings and for all that are in authority that we may lead a quiet life in all godlinesse and honesty 1 Tim. 2.2 and in all Ages to this day the orthodoxe party have much desired the Patronage of Princes and civill States in their Religious ministrations as a meanes to propagate the Gospel in the power and puritie of the Ordinances of Christ and if the Parliament should which the Lord forbid yeeld to such a toleration of Religions as you propound I would know whether you would not desire the security of State for that licence you lust after if any should oppose you therein and would you not have the power that granted it engage so farre as to make it good unto you and to suppresse those who would debarre you of the libertie allowed you We know the spirit of your partie by their speeches and some practises so well that we doubt not of this and we have cause rather to beleeve that you would not waite upon the Magistrates leisure to right you in such a case if you had power for more speedy remedy in your owne hands Smoke Pag. 59. And I considered the bloud which hath beene poured out by Nationall compulsion of teader consciences Light In what Nation doe you meane if in England as I suppose you doe either onely or chiefly I confesse that in the time of Popish Tyranny there was much blood poured out of the veâ—â—es of such as had tender consciences so tender that they could endure death more willingly then Idolatry And I deny not but the domination of the Starchamber and the High Commission were very Tyrannicall and injurious to tender consciences and very bloody especially the Starchamber to the porsons of such as came under their censure for I have read the reports of the cruel usager of Mr. Primâ—â— Dr. Bastwickâ— and Mr. Burton and truly Sir I could not but be affected with compassion towards Mr. Lilburne and with indignation towards his persecutors though he have often bewrayed a bitter spirit by many disdainfull contumelies against them upon the reading of the late Relation of his sufferings proved before the Right Honourable the House of Peeres Feb. 13. 1645. wherein it is testified that a Pag. 3. he was whipped from Fleet bridge to Westminster so cruelly that the cords bruised his shoulders and made them swell as bigge as a penny leafe and wheales on his backe bigger then a Tobacco-pipe and that the Warden of the Fleet caused him to be gagged in such a cruell manner as if he would have torne his jawes in pieces But did not the Parliament so farre abominate the Tyranny of these Courts as utterly to depose them and to exclude the Bishops out of the House of Peers and will you compare their engagements for the puritie and unitie of a reformed Religion and Government with the intolerable-Tyranny of such mercilesse oppressours And for the tender consciences so much so plausibly pleaded for by you and your partie many who had good meanes to know Sectaries and no bad minds to mis-report of them finde that for a few tender consciences among them there are many leprous ulcerous blinded hardned and cauterized consciences to which if the State should be so tender as you would have them it would be cruell to farre better Christians SECT XXVIII What a Trumpeter Mr. Saltm is his reproach of the Parliament plaine enough though rather implied then expressed A challenge of him to prove his insinuated suggestions of Treason Blasphemie c. in my Examination of his New Quere Smoke Pag. 59. ANd like a spirituall watchman I could not but blow my Trumpet Light The premises considered your Trumpet is as the Trumpet of Sheba the sonne of Bichri sounded to sedition a Sam. 20.1 Smoke Pag. 59. And for my comparison of Papists and Prelates I appeale to the world if there be any reproach whether it be not in the Interpreter rather then in the Authour Light For my comparison of Papists and Prelates If you compare Papists and Prelates it is not so great a reproach to Prelates for the most part to be matched with Papists as for the Presbyterians to be likened to the worst of either as you make the comparison but you should have said further for my resemblance of such as desire and endeavour the speedy setting up of Government to Papists and Prelates for so you made it in your Quere p. 8. I appeale not to the world that is too wide a compasse for a Iudicatory as well as for a Church but to the ingenuous and impartiall Reader whether the Parliament making as much haste as they can to finish the Governement that they may establish it by their civill Sanction be not implicitly taken into that imputation and let him judge also whether the reproach be in the Authour or in the Interpreter Smoke Pag. 59. If it be lawfull say you to draw in consequent conclusions and then father them I could prove you to speake Treason Blasphemie Idolatry Atheisme Heresie nay Independency which some of you may thinke worse Anabaptisme Separation which would seeme to be as hatefull to you but I judge you not in any such sort nor had I spoken so farre now but in a just vindication Light If it be lawfull why should you doubt of it but that it is lawfull If I have any premises which you can make parents to bring forth such corrupt and criminall conclusions spare me not Sir nay I challenge you to lay downe your antecedent in my words and bring in your consequent of Treason Blasphemie Idolatry Atheisme c. out of them which if you can doe by any faire and unforced deduction I will take you for an unerring Oracle and follow you with an implicit faith with punctuall observance and imitation of you whithersoever you goe through all your vatiations of Heresie and Schisme though you ramble all over the Catalogue of them
LIGHT FOR SMOKE OR A CLEARE AND DISTINCT REPLY by IOHN LEY One of the Assembly of Divines at WESTMINSTER TO A DARKE AND CONFVSED Answer in a Booke made and intituled The Smoke in the Temple by Iohn Saltmarsh late Preacher at Brasteed in Kent now revolted both from his Pastorall calling and charge Psal 37. vers 6. He shall bring forth thy righteousnesse as the light and thy iudgement as the noone day Whereto is added Novello-mastix or a Scourge for a scurrilous News-monger LONDON Printed by I. L. for Christopher Meredith at the signe of the Crane in Pauls Church-yard 1646. TO THE RIGHT VVORSHIPFVL Sr. VVILLIAM STRICKLAND KNIGHT and HERBOTTLE GRIMSTON Esquire two worthy Members of the Honourable House of COMMONS Right worthy Sirs I Presented you with a former Booke against Mr. Saltm his Remora to the Reformation in hand as I did other mine honoured and worthy friends this I offer to your view as to Judges of the difference betwixt him and me as it hath been a graduate by the presse from an Answer to Reply from that to a Rejoynder where for the present the period is fixed and for my part it shall be to me as an Herculean pillar beyond which I will not sayle and this resolution with my Reasons I have imparted to Mr. Saltm in a particular Epistle to himselfe But though I proceed no further with him in the reciprocation of Replyes you may be pleased having acquaintance with him as he maketh his addresses to you or as any opportunitie presenteth him before you to contribute some of your discreet counsels for better imployment of his parts and pen then in crying downe that Discipline and Government as terrible and tyrannicall which the prudent Senators of both the Honourable Houses of Parliament in part have set up and further endeavour to advance and in damning the maintenance of Ministers as Antichristian and Iewish which the same authoritie by many ancient Acts and your selves with your Honourable Associats by a late Ordinance have established For the former I professe unto you it is matter of wonder unto me how any man can have the face to make such out-cryes against the Government as he and some others doe as if it were more formidable then Prelaticall domination in the highest degree when every Bishop by his own power set out Articles in his Visitation concerning all aberrations from Ecclesiasticall Canons whether sinnes or no sinnes and by a meere Arbitrary power made many times crimes of duties as preaching in the afternoone of the Sabbath day and duties of crimes as Reading the Book for Recreations and sports on that Day and convented and censured all sorts of persons by his sole Jurisdiction sentencing whom he would to suspension and excommunication imposed Orders of Penance with ordinary Fees and extraordinary Commutations sometimes at no lesse then 100 or 200 pound price besides the additionall power of Justice-ship of Peace and the High Commission whereby the two Archbishops and as many as in either Province they made choice of to be Assessors to them on that dreadfull Tribunall punished as they thought meet with fine and imprisonment with great fines and long imprisonment many times for small faults and sometimes for none at all whereby some of them carryed their concurrent authoritie with such cunning that most were overawed by it knowing it was great and various and not knowing for the most part when they did act by one power when by another And can our Anti-presbyterian opposites say that any single Presbyter any Presbytery Parochiall Classicall or Provinciall assume any such jurisdiction or power either over mens persons or estates Is not suspension from the Sacrament and Excommunication from the Church the utmost authoritie they claime and is this any more then they that both condemne and contemne the Presbytery of their own free-will or self-will doe unto themselves It is said by some that to set up Presbytery in stead of Prelacy is to multiplie Clergie masters over the people and for one Bishop in a Diocesse to set up many in some no fewer then a thousand for one But they should consider that all the Ecclesiasticall authority of a Diocesse united in one Bishop as in an Episcopall Sea was as the river * Cyrus Gynden late fusum amnem vado transire tentavit ibt unus ex equis qui trahere regium currum albi solcbant abreptus vehementer commovit regem Juravit itaque amnem illum regiis equis meatum aufereutem co se redacturum ut transiri calcarique etiam a foeminis posset Huc deinde omnem transtulit belli apparatum tamdiu assedit operi donec centum octoginta cuniculis divisum alveum in trecentos sexaginta rivos dispergeret fiecum relinqueret in diversum fluentibus aquis Senec. de ita lib. 3. cap. 21. pag. 448. Gyndes very deepe and of a boysterous streame as when it drowned the white Horse that drew the Charet of Cyrus but being divided among so many Ministers or Presbyters it is as the same River when Cyrus enraged at the losse and meaning to be revenged of it caused it to be divided into three hundred and sixtie channels And yet is not every Presbyter though a Bishop as a Prelate in his own Parish that is endowed with sole power of censures for others are to be joyned in administration of Government with him in many places many for one and in no place under a double number As for the right of Presbytery whether it be Divine or humane I conceive if the Question were rightly stated and the officers their power dutie qualifications and administrations clearly distinguished those that are in extremes for their Tenets whether holding all of it or none of it to be of Divine right would be eafily convinced of an errour and a Tenure would be found out and made good wherein Christ might have his due to the full without any diminution of the Magistrates just Authoritie or of any libertie which truly might be called Christian For the latter concerning the unlawfulnesse of Tythes if his Tenet now be right his taking of them before was wrong and the same constitution of conscience which makes him now to renounce them may make him at least to doubt whether he be not bound to returne what he hath received of the Parishioners of Brasteed in that kinde into their hands againe by vertue of that received Rule of * Non remittitur peccatum nisi restituatur ablatum August Epist 54. ad Macedon pag. 280. Augustine in his Epistle to Macedonius The sinne is not remitted unlesse the goods that are wrong fully taken be restored And if he appeare before you againe you may doe well to put such a case of conscience to his consideration For my part I am sorry to see him so unsetled in his judgement so sedulous in his endeavours under pretence of Evangelicall calmenesse and meeknesse and moderation of spirit to prepare a
their Tenets Smoke Pag. 50. The Bishops had a better prescription even by Law for their Government then we i. then Independents But how is this is a legall prescription better hold the a Gospel prescription Light In this and some lines next following you take that for granted which we cannot yeeld nor can you ever prove viz. that your Independency is purely Evangelicall which if you can make good but the Texts you have crowded together at the end of your opening of Mr. Prinnes Vindication will not doe it you shall make me of your Religion when you let me know which it is you will choose and stand to when you have chosen SECT XIX Of the pretended modesty and humilitie of the Independents by way of comparison with the Presbyterians Smoke Pag. 50. BVt there is one Government set up already a Civill Parliamentary Government and will you set up another above that or co-ordinate with it will you set up one government to rule another or tutor another Light And if your Independent Government were set up which you accompt an Evangelicall and Scripture Government Christs golden Scepter Christ upon his Throne should that Government be above the Civill Government or coordinate with it would you set up this government to rule the other or tutor the other when you have answered these Queries put upon Independency you will see it will not be difficult to answer the like concerning Presbytery yet it is evident to all that make any serious observation on both wayes that the Presbyteriall Government is more moderate more subordinate to the Parliamentary Government then the Independent because that is humbly submitted to the debate of the Parliament for approbation of it and waiteth for their Civill establishment before any part of it is put into execution and practise the Independent Government in this respect Independent on the Parliament as well as on Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Assemblies comes under no such triall of them but is set up without any authoritie from them Smoke Pag. 50. And must you needs set up as large a dominion as the civill power hath must your Presbytery be as ample as high as supreme as the Parliament will no lesse territory or kingdome serve it but all England whole Nations must Christs government be iust as long as broad as the worlds Light Here is a great deale of aggravating Rhetoricke to bring in a suspicion of a vast and unlimited domination of the Presbytery and I pray you Sr if Independency were the Parliaments darling as you desire it would nor you wish it and if you could procure it to be set up in every Citie and Towne in England would not you that think it a good government the best government advance your good opinion of it well-wishings to it according to the maxime Bonum que communius comelius Every good thing the more common the more commendable We observe your sedulitie in spreading your opinions into remote regions and cannot but conceive by your zeale and activitie for your cause that you are ambitious like the Spaniard to enlarge your Religion as he his Dominions whereof * Myraeus Comment de bello Bohemic p. 7. Myraeus saith that the Sunne never sets but alwayes shines in some place or other where he raignes Smoke Pag. 50. Now Reader iudge which government affects dominion which brings in whole nations under the scepter of it poore Scripture government can be content to sit downe in a village To the Church in thy house saith the Spirit in a Citie as Corinth and over but a few there the Saints onely in fellowship to the Church in Corinth in a Countrey not over a Countrey To the seven Churches in Asia not of Asia not the Church of Asia or the Church Asia a Church taking in halfe part of the world Light And let the Reader judge how much of roving fancie and fond affection how little judgement is in this paragraph Which Government say you affects dominion c. speake properly Sir and the truth will better appeare and be more ready for sentence and judgement and then your question will be which sort of those that stand for Government for the government as abstracted from them hath no affections at all affect dominion more You say poore Scripture government can be content to sit down in a village to the Church in thy house c. where you assume and presuppose which I deny that Independency is a government either poore or pure according to the Scriptures And for Independent Ministers when you see them so placed in the Citie in the chiefe Citie of the Kingdome culling out of mens charges the fairest and fattest of their flocks to be the materials and members of their new-gathered Churches and so ordering their Sermons and covenanting with their hearers that they have the most populous congregations all sects coming to heare them and adhering to them as to their Patrons who will not come to the Sermons of the most Orthodox and able Preachers of the Presbyteriall way When you know or may know that most of them are eminently richer then other Ministers how can you how dare you bragge of the humilitie and povertie of Independency sitting down contented with a village especially when none of those who set up Independency in England planted themselves in a village except in vicinitie to some great Citie where they might have the profit and comfort and the best accommodations of Citie and Countrey And for the small Church in a house or a particular Citie in a Countrey not over a Countrey in Asia not the Church of Asia This makes no more for Independency then for Presbytery when there were too few professing the faith to be sorted into Congregations Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Assemblies and so your instance cannot be a fit patterne for these times wherein the profession of the Gospel is received all over the Kingdome SECT XX. Whether Christ if he would have a nationall comprehensive Church was bound to have begun the practise of it over whole Kingdomes as Mr. Saltm saith and whether importeth more pride to desire a subordination of Assemblies Parochiall Classicall c. then to be adverse to it Smoke Pag. 50 51. SVre if Christ would have had such a nationall comprehensive Church he would have converted Kings and Princes first and they should have given up their Kingdomes to Iesus Christ in the way of a Presbyterian Light To this I oppose your own words both in your a New Querie repeated in my Examination Sect. 12. p. 38. Querie and in your Smoke in both which places you tell your Reader that the publication of the Gospel and the proposall of Church government were brought in at distance heresies say you might have growne from Iohns first Sermon to Pauls Epistles and the sending of the Spirit but you see there was no government setled till afterwards upon the people of Gods and in your last you tell me that
Patronage for all wild and wicked fancies that every man may beleeve what he list and live as he beleeveth and so may doe what is right in his own eyes that is whatsoever is wrong in the eyes of God and of all good men as if there were no King in Israel Iudges 17.6 that is no Government for then the Kingly power over that people was not set up But the cure of this belongs to the care of your selves and your Honourable Colleagues for whom it is our parts whom God hath placed under your power and protection uncessantly to supplicate to the throne of Grace that as you have pulled down the remainders and removed the rubbish of ruined Babel from among us so you may in Gods good time and the sooner the better set up in stead thereof such a faire and goodly frame of Church-government from the foundation to the top-stone as may be entertained with shouting not of a party onely as at the laying of the foundation of the Temple Ezra 3.11 12 13. but of all sorts both old and young and to this publique devotion wherein you have your sociable share as you have a part of the common care and providence for the welfare of three Kingdomes I shall adde my private supplications for your prosperitie in particular and to them my sincere endeavours To be faithfully and affectionately yours in any acceptable service IOHN LEY The Contents Section 1. OF the Title Independent in what sence it is disclaimed in what acknowledged and of subordination denied by Mr. S. and purity in the Church held necessary by him p. 1. Sect. 2. The Objection of unseasonablenesse of Master Saltm his Quere justified and his grosse mistake or wilfull falsification of my words detected p. 4. Sect. 3. Rom. 14.23 Whatsoever is not of faith is sin no barre to the establishment of the Presbyteriall government Master Saltm his distinction of a State and publique conscience and a personall conscience p. 5. Sect. 4. Master Saltm his unequall dealing in distributing his owne and his adversaries worke The Presbytery not like Prelacie in unwarrantablenesse by the word of God Of Prudence how farre of lawfull use in religious matters p. 8. Sect. 5. Whether Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Presbyteries be like the Independents gathering of Churches p. 11. Sect. 6. It is unreasonable to require an undertaking that the best government in constitution should be faultlesse in execution Tyranny more to be feared in Independencie then in Presbyterie p. 13. Sect. 7. Of the power of the Presbyterie for reformation of manners compared with Prelacy the evill effects of Independency the difference betwixt a Discipline and the Discipline Mr. Saltm his precipitancy in writing and in divulging what he hath written of Popery in the Covenant or under the Covenant p. 15. Sect. 8. Tythes not Jewish and Popish as Mr. Saltm pretendeth pag. 19. Sect. 9. Of Mr. Colemans observation of the Church of Scotland pag. 21. Sect. 10. A comparison of young men and old for prudence and counsell Of visions and dreames where Ioel 2.28 Act. 2.17 are vindicated from Mr. Saltm his mistaking and misapplication of them p. 23. Sect. 11. Master Saltm his insufficient answer and figurative trifling unworthy of an answer p. 28. Sect. 12. A comparison of Presbyterians and Independents in point of strictnesse and loosenesse in admission of members Of the mixture in the Church of Corinth p. 29. Sect. 13. To whom Christ is an head and how of his rod of iron and his golden scepter and of his being a Lord and a servant gentle yet terrible p. 21. Sect. 14. The Presbyteriall government not unsutable to the condition of Christ the prevailing of Independents and of the sects that meete in Independencie much more terrible then the Presbyteriall Government can be p. 33. Sect. 15. A pleasant reproofe of a misaepplication of Scripture is no offence against the Majesty of the Word how and in what cases a taunting speech may be allowed p. 39. Sect. 16. Of the Presbyteriall and Independent Government how affected The slow proceeding of the Church Government made no argument for it nor mentioned to the disparagement of the Parliament Mr. Saltm brings the Parliaments Authoritie under popular libertie Of wheat in the Independent Congregations p. 42. Sect. 17. The settling of Government falsly suggested to be heretic all with an implicit reproach upon the Parliament Of the truth of Sleydans story of the Anabaptists in Germany A rash censure of Luther and the Lutherans in Germany for opposing them A caveat to England to take warning by Germany The Ministers practise slandered and the Magistrate dishonoured by Mr. Saltm p. 47. Sect. 18. The Toleration desired by Mr. Saltm neither safe nor sound opposite to the mind of Paul 1 Cor. 1.10 Cal 5.10.12 Of the comparison of the two ambitious Brethren to ten more humble and moderate The Presbytery not proved by Magistrates though approved by them Of the pretended truth of Sectaries and of the prescription of Bishops and Independents p. 51. Sect. 19. Of the pretended modesty and humility of the Independents by way of comparison with the Presbyterians p. 54. Sect 20. Whether Christ if he would have a nationall comprehensive Church was bound to have begun the practice of it over whole Kingdomes as Mr. Saltm saith and whether importeth more pride to desire a subordination of Assemblies Parochiall Classicall c. or to be adverse to it p. 57. Sect. 21. Master Saltm his mistake touching the building of the Temple Of the difference of the patterne of the Temple and the patterne of the Government of the Gospel Master Saltm confusedly jumbleth them together p. 60. Sect. 22 Of staying for the Spirit to give light of instruction to the reformation of the Church p. 63. Sect. 23. Of expedition or delay in setting up of Government Whether Moses and Christ the Jewish and Christian State be so contrary that there is no conformitie betweene them p. 65. Sect. 24 Truth not to be parted with for peace the Magistrate dishonoured and the Presbyterians slandered by Mr. Saltm p 68. Sect. 25 The Magistrates assistance to the Ecclesiasticall Government no argument to prove it no Gospel Government the sword of God and of Gideon of Church Discipline and Civill severity how lawfull and usefull zeale against Toleration of evill commended connivence at it blameable p. 71. Sect. 26. Mr. Saltm his dangerous supposition of equality of number and power with diversitie of Religion of incorporating of two powers and what may be expected should the Sectaries prevail p. 74. Sect. 27. The Authority of the Parliament not pleaded by the Presbyterians as a supplement of Scriptures as Mr. Saltm suggesteth nor slighted by them as by Mr. Saltm it is of the pretended danger of the Magistrates engagement with the Ministers of the pretended tendernesse of consciences in Sectaries p. 77. Sect. 28. What a Trumpeter Mr. Saltm is his reproach of the Parliament plaine enough though
be a patterne to another so farre as the word of God is a patterne to it as Paul said to the Corinthians Be ye followers of me even as I also am of Christ 1 Cor. 11.1 or where it is silent so farre as the light of reason directeth SECT V. Whether Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Presbyteries be like the Independents gathering of Churches Smoke Pag. 23. ANd when people are instructed still your worke remaines to prove your Presbytery over Congregations or a Church gathered out of a Church to be over a Church which may upon the Presbytery more instly be recriminated then where you doe so often recriminate upon gathered Churches and me thinks to me it is unreasonable to taxe any for Church-gathering when your Presbytery is maintained by such a kinde of principle What is your Classicall your Provinciall your Nationall Presbytery but a Church gathered out of the rest call it a veronall or representative or what you please Light Still your worke remaines You are still putting worke upon me as I told you before which was no part of my undertaking when I examined your Quere and as unwilling to performe your own for you say in the next precedent paragraph it is not your worke to dispute the Interest of Elders and people distinctly and yet you have taken upon you a Discourse of Church order in the opening of Mr. Prinnes Vindication I did not so nor was it needfull in the thing it selfe being fully done by others nor directly incident to my Answer to your paper Nor if I thought it fit to argue and to discusse that controversie would I doe it in a debate with you for the reasons fore-alleadged And for your recrimination that Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Presbyteries are gatherings of Churches out of Churches which the Presbyterians condemne in your partie it is a very impertinent and perverse comparison wherein there are many considerable differences that make it criminall in your Church and commendable in Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Assemblies which besides many other are these First These subordinate gatherings are not made out of any conceipt favouring of singularitie disdaine or contempt of entire communion with those out of whom they are gathered as in your gatherings of Churches but out of care and compassion to them to consult and provide for their good as the gathering of the principall Patriots out of the countrey to be united in the House of Commons is not for making of a Schisme from their countrey but for meeting in counsell and care for their countrey Secondly This gathering into Classes c. is with consent and free choice of those Societies out of which they are gathered as it is in the choice of Knights Citizens and Burgesses for the Parliament not so in your Church gatherings for those who are left out when you admit of Members in your selected choice for Church-way are displeased with your neglects of them and refusall to administer all the ordinances of God unto them Thirdly Those who you call out as Members of your new gathered Churches might more conveniently joyne together in the administration of holy things as they are by Gods providence disposed of in Parishionall dwellings then your covenanted members who are many times in their habitations as farre distant as London and Dover yea sometimes as farre as London and Amsterdam Raterdam Arnhem or New England But the gathering of Pastours and Elders into Classicall Assemblies is made with much conveniency and withall in a kinde of necessitie because the Churches whom they represent cannot possibly all of them convene in one place or if they could they would be too many to be drawn from their dwellings too many to be admitted to counsell and censure Fourthly Gatherings of Ministers and Elders into Classes c. makes much for preservation of truth and peace in Parochiall congregations but your gatherings of Churches are and have proved the meanes to broach eâ—â—ours and breed schismes Fifthly The gathering of Elders for consultation and provision for the welfare of other particular Churches as it hath sure ground of religious reason so hath it the honour of most ancient and honourable prescription from the * Bin. Tom. 1. Concil pag. 2. Excus Paris 1636. fourteenth yeere after the resurrection of Christ Act. 15. to this day whereas your gathering of Churches out of Churches in a State and a time of reformation is a new device never practised or approved by the godly in former ages Sixthly The gathering of Ministers and Elders into Assemblies Classicall c. is authorized by the Parliament the supreame Iudicatory of the Kingdome whereas your Church gathering is not allowed by authoritie but taken up without it and against it SECT VI. It is unreasonable to require an undertaking that the best government in constitution should he faultlesse in execution tyrannic more to be feared in Independency then in Presbytery Smoke Pag. 23. BVt what if such at your selfe and some other godly meeke of your way may propound nothing but wayes of meeknesse can you undertake to secure the people for hereafter and for all and for the way in its own nature Light It is a most unreasonable thing that you should require such a securitie of those who have the greatest authoritie in their hands much lesse should you looke for it from any private man Minister or other since no government how warrantable so ever if managed by sinfull man can be secured from all abuse either by falling short of dutie by remisenesse or overshooting it by rigour But Sir any rationall man that knoweth the regular constitution of the Presbyteriall Government and the experimentall execution of it in the Churches where it is established may be more bold to undertake for it both for the government it selfe and for the most probable consequences of it then any may engage for the way of Independency and the manifold evill effects and fruits of it whereof see Mr. * c. 3. a p 59 c. Bayly his Disswasive from errours Smoke Pag. 23. You know Episcopacis beganne in meeknesse and Bishops were brought in first for good and for peace but how proved they tyranny had ever a countenance of meeknesse and love till it got seated on the throne Light Episcopacie began at such a time as this wherein we live and upon occasion of such an evill as now is much complained of viz. the turning of Religion into Faction and it was taken up as a remedy against it but when in stead of an Antidote against contention it became an Engine of oppression by the slothfulnesse of some as well as by the ambition of others for if some had not beene willing to do too little others had not been able to usurpe too much Presbytery was by the Reformed Churches restored and the presidencie which before was perpetuall for feare of the returne of tyranny was made so mutable that none might be ambitious of it or injurious by it And if
impeachment of the antecedent allegation The like may be said of Psal 91.13 as brought in by Pope c Foxe Martyrolog Vol. 1. pag. 265. printed London Ann. 1641. Alexander to prove his proud usurpation over Princes when at Venice Anno 1159. he set his foot upon the necke of the Emperour Frederick Barborosse the Story whereof though d Bin. Tom. 7. concil part altera p. 629. col 1. Binius say it was fained by Henetiques e Vicars Decapl in lib. Psalm in p. 91. pag. 268. col 2. is set out and is to be seene in a Table at Venice and of the f See Paraus in Gen. 28. ver 12. col 1597. inference which some make of the ubiquitie of the body of Christ from the vision of Iacobs ladder Gen. 28.12 And what resolution can be made of a Popish glosse on Gen. 1.10 according to the Latine Translation Congregationem aquarum vecavit maria applying it to the praise of the Virgin Mary without such a scoffe as may expose the Authours ridiculous descant to scorne and laughter which repeated by a learned Hebrician he begins the report with g Audi Lector ride Sixt. Amam Antibarbar Bibl. l. 2. p. 287. heare Reader and laugh And if I thought your quotation of Matth. 9.17 were as wide from the scope and as weake for the proofe of that for which it was produced by you as some of these now mentioned allegations are wherein there are divers judicious and religious Readers concurring with me I might reserving all due respect to that sacred Text entertaine your misapplication of it rather with a jesting correction then a serious conviction You will say perhaps as in h Smoke p. 59. another place you have done that mis-application is a word sooner written then proved and i Ibid. you would have the Reader iudge so would I if he be neither imprudent nor partiall whether it be your misapplication or my misinterpretation and let him judge also whether mis-interpretation be not a word sooner written then proved as well as misapplication is and let him further judge whether these words of yours I am sorry my younger pen should reprove the aged for is sting which the Apostle faith is not convenient should have been uttered by you in a jesting or jeering way as they are and whether now you should not be sorry in good earnest that your younger pen was so forward to blet the face of the aged with such a blacke aspersion as uncomely iesting at the Scripture and being but a servant playing upon the Master of the Feast or any thing in his hause especially upon his wine which alludes to his blood and which he hath promised to drinke new with us in his Fathers Kingdome It would better have becomed you especially professing such respect to me as you doe in your Letter and k Smoke p. 16. else-where to have taken my jesting as I meant it with a candid acceptation as the laughter of Ioh was received by younger men then himselfe If I laughed faith he they beleeved it not and the light of my countenance they cast not down Iob 29.24 that is as the Last Annotations expound it they thought a man of my gravitie would not be so familiar with them or as Grotius makes the note l Etiam joca mea putabant aliquid occultare serii Grot. in Job 29.24 They thought some serious matter lay laid under my iesting and my familiaritie did not cause them to grieve be angry or contemne me or * Authoritas mea mihi apud ipsos constabat Grot. Ibid. my authoritie suffered no diminution by that meanes or upon that occasion You frame the like objection against me for m Smoke p. 41. being too pleasant with your expression of the truth by a starre because it is the very allegory of the spirit and so was that which Barchoche has alluded unto Numb 24.17 yet was his misapplication of it justly entertained with a taunt and his name with derision turned into Beâ—â—bozba the sonne of a lie for which I quoted two grave Authours in mine n Pag. 27. Examination of your Quere You say there was more lightsomnesse then light in that passage and I beleeve there was more light also then in most parts of your Booke which you have smoked in every page you will say perhaps that here againe I am too pleasant with your Scripture evidence but let me tell you Sr. without offence you are observed to play upon the Sacred ground-worke with too much boldnesse and wantoâ—nesse of wit to make many allusions which are but illusions of your owne misinformed sancie and they take the Title of your Book to be very fantasticall and besides many jests which have passed upon it by some ingenuous Readers which I forbeare lest I should make you angry with that which made them merry while I was writing this there came to my hands a Latine Letter form a very learned and religious Divine with whom I have a commerce of Letters in that Language wherein he takes your Answer which you call a full answer unto me to have none other fulnesse in it then a o Persuafissimum habco postertorem ejus scil libri partem quae responsum tuum perstring it merum fumum esse sacillimeque uno tctu calami tui dissipatum iri c. fume and vapour which will easily vanish into nothing SECT XVI Of the Presbyteriall and Independent Government how affected the slow proceeding of the Church Government made no Argument for it nor mentioned to the disparagement of the Parliament Mr. Saltm brings the Parliaments Authority under popular liberty of the wheat in Independent Congregations Smoke Pag. 38. PRove your Argument Government you would say first to be Christs the particulars and entirenesse accordingly and then I shall allow you your Argument but you grant it to be but partly Christs partly the Assemblies or of prudence Light It is no part of mine undertaking to prove the Presbyteriall Government to be Christs Government nor is it needfull so to doe for I have told you where it is done already which no man hath refuted nor can doe nor is it needfull to assert every part of it by expresse Scripture and if the Independent platforme be according to the pure Gospel patterne as you phrase it why have not your Brethren cleared that doubt all this while having been ingaged thereto by promise and often called upon for performance thereof Smoke Pag. 38. To your last that the Reformation hath proceeded by slow paces and degrees What would you prove it by its slow proceeding to bee Christs Government and therefore to be setled that were a strange kinde of reasoning Light I see it is not strange with you to mistake or pervert a plaine truth for did not you plead against the speedy setling of the Presbyterian Government by the example of Christ and was not mine p See Sect. 8.
p. 23. of mine Examination Answer to this purpose Christ was not so long in setling of his Government nor the Parliament and Assembly so hasty as you pretended Is this a proofe of mine opinion I pray you or a confutation of yours Smoke Pag. 41. Why should you speake of the Governments fluttering on a limetwigge at Westminster sure the State or Parliament may deserve better of any of the Assembly then to be thought their Retarders or limetwigs Light Here you make as if I spake without due respect or rather with termes of reproach unto the State or Parliament for bringing in the Government as fluttering upon the limetwigge at Westminster and thereupon you say Sure the State or Parliament may deserve better of any of the Assembly then to be thought their Retarders or limetwigs and you strive to straine up the words to an higher degree of guilt by an aggravation of ingratitude in that they have honoured them above their Brethren To which I answer First that my words Sect. 9. p. 26. are these It hath been if not the fault yet the ill hap of our Church and State to have the Government fluttering upon the limetwig of deliberation at Westminster when it should be upon the wing of actuall execution all over the Kingdome Secondly that if I had mistaken termes of diminution of the dignitie of the Parliament for termes of honour and gratefull acknowledgement there is no reason that for my fault the Assembly should be involved in the imputation of an offence since I did not write by any either command from them or consultation with them Thirdly confining the charge to my selfe I may challenge you for a fayling in charity and memorie First in charitie in that you make so ill a construction of my words both really and personally really interpreting the limetwig in a sence of defilement whereas I meant it onely as a let and impediment which may befall the deliberations of the best and wisest men and personally in turning the terme upon the State or Parliament in an offensive signification towards them whom I never meant nor mentioned with a thought or expression of disparagement Secondly in memory in that you forgate a precedent passage in my Booke which might had you remembred it have prevented such a sinister surmise of the metaphor I used my words which manifestly hold out a confutation of your corrupt glosse on these now in question are these Yet they cannot make that speed with the Government which by most is desired and very much desired by themselves as we of the Assembly can witnesse who have often beene sent to by that Honourable Senate to quicken our worke and to ripen our debates to a full resolution because as with us the libertie of speaking wherein every one is frce to propose and prosecute any doubt prolonged the Government in our hands so the like libertie in the Honourable Honses or rather our libertie is like theirs it being the prototypon longthens the debates and delayes the votes of that most Honourable Senate and so much the more because they are more in number then we in our Synod and because their determinations are finall as ours are not But when you have made the worst sence you can of them you come in with this allay it may be you call your dissenting Brethren the limetwigs I doe not that neither for I doe not so confound persons and things as to meane men to be the limet wigs but their deliberations objections and obstructions that step in and keepe out deciding votes and resolutions of debates wherein if I mean your Independent Brethren had their part and fault I doe them no wrong but then you make as if I wronged my selfe defiling my argument with a limetwigge and be wraying our slow proceeding to have beene rather of constraint then conscience which is a me are inconsequence for we neither endeavoured nor desired such a precipitation of conclusions as should not admit of necessary or competent consideration and discussion beforchund nor such a slownesse of proceeding as should wiredraw a dispute for a weeke or a fortnight which would not have taken up one whole day if there had not beene some such among us as q Rem planam argumentatione facere dubiam Hieron advers Ruffin Tom. 2. operum p. 217. Hierome taxâ—th for cavilling a cleare truth into abscuritie And now I have cleared my selfe of your imputation of disrespect to the State or Parliament I may rooriminate some contempt in you towards that most Honourable Assembly For First you seeme to thinke it a matter of praise to your partic that r So in your Letter to me you are more on the Magistrates side then the Magistrate on yours as if the Magistrate were bound to tolerate your way against law and the pence and union of Church and State as much as you are bound to allow them their power and authoritie for preservation of the publicke welfare Secondly In your designe for Pence as farre as you dare you project a way to decline the Magistrates Authoritie about religious matters which an advised Reader may perceive though your termes be very cunningly chosen and covertly couched together where you say Å¿ Smoke p. 4. nu 13. Let not abose beleevers who have the advantage of the Magistrate striue to make any unwarrantable use of it one against another because Scripture principles are not so cleare for it Thirdly you for your part cast a notorious calumnie upon the Parliament calling t Ibid. p. 25. the maint enance of the Ministers by Tythes undeniably Iewish and Popish which are confirmed by Ordinance of Parliament whereof you cannot be ignorant and it cannot be avoided if Tythes be of that nature but that you make the Parliament Patrones of Iudaisme and Popery and that is such a notorious reproach as you should not have entertained in your most secret thoughts nor whispered in the care of any friend much lesse have proclaimed it in Print in such peremptory termes as you have done Fourthly you give up the Magistrates Authoritie to the peoples libertie leaving it in their choice to receive or refuse Church-government as they like or dislike it for thus you would have it propounded unto them u Smoke p. 14. People here is a Government which to some of us seemeth to be a government according to the Word of God take it and examine it if you be so perswaded and if the Word of God hold it forth clearely embrace it if not doe not obey any thing in blinde and implicite obedience this were faire dealing with conscience But it were foule dealing with the Magistrate yea and the people too for it would bring all to Anarchie and confusion as Iudg. 17.6 If you say you meane it in respect of the Assembly or Ministers they present it not to the people untill the Parliament have ratified it by their Authoritie and so your meaning must be that they should
if their transgressions deserve it since therein they doe their owne worke whereto by their office they are obliged and when they doe so you should not so disparage the Magistrates as to match them with such wicked Officers as set upon our blessed Saviour and with violent hands violated the Majestie and Piety of his Person nor so honour such hereticall Incendiaries and slaughter men as those Anabaptists were as to compare them to Christ And for your caveat against shedding of spirituall blood if you meane by that phrase the blood of Sectaries or Hereticks whom some take to be more spirituall then other men they are many of them very carnall Gospellers and if spirituall rather such as are led by a wicked spirit the suggester of hereticall untruths and tempter to diabolicall blasphemies and outrages then such as are guided by the Spirit of truth and holinesse and if by spirituall blood you meane as the most judicious commonly use and understand the phrase the blood of soules it is that which ingageth the Magistrates to represse hereticall Teachers for by drawing others to heresie they are guilty of the blood of soules and they are all guilty of that blood who doe not all they can according to their place and power to prevent the shedding of it by seducing Doctors for zeale in this cause I have cited some lively and vigorous sayings of the Ancients in my former * Sect. 12. p. 13. Book to which I remit you Smoke Pag. 46. So as you will have an hazard runne both in State and Church for a new experiment upon the Ministers but sure your Statists will tell you it is not safe trying experiments with States they are too vast bodies for that what thinke you of that Physician who will cast his Patient into a disease to trie a cure on him you know the old morall Adage Turpius ejicitur quam non admittitur hospes light To your exception we have not yet any experience of our new Clergie my a Examination of the New Querie Sect. 10. p. 32. Answer was Then they cannot yet be charged with misgovernment of the people and how can there be experience of them if there be no Government to try them withall but we have experience of much evill for want of Government as b Ibid. I told you before And for that you say your Statists will tell you it is not safe trying experience with States which you illustrate by a similitude of a Physician casting his Patient into a disease to try a cure on him I like it very well in those and being rightly applied it makes much against you and the toleration you plead for for we have found it by wofull experience that some politick Mountebankes have made a perillous experiment upon our State by connivence at and pressing for a toleration of many erroneous and some very hereticall Sects the cure whereof the longer it is delayed will be more difficult and more dangerous to the soules of the people in whom errour and heresie spread and eat like a canker or gangrene as in the Greeke 2 Tim. 2.17 SECT XVIII The Toleration desired by Mr. Saltm neither safe nor sound opposite to the minde of Paul 1 Cor. 1.10 Gal. 5.10.12 Of the comparison of the two ambitious Brethren to ten more humble and moderate The Presbytery not proved by Magistrates though approved by them Of the pretended truth of Sectaries and of the prescription of Bishops and Independents Smoke Pag. 47. I Would there were more such that is such as would give full scope and libertie to multiplicitie of sects I am sure it is safest and soundest It is safest for there is no such danger in that of crucifying Christ in ignorance or fighting against God and soundest for so they die out most naturally by their owne unsoundnesse without noise and commotion Light In this you have delivered a most unsafe and unsound paradox which is disproved by the experience of former ages and foraine parts but most of all by that of our owne Kingdome within these foure yeeres last past witnesse Mr. Edwards his last Booke the Gangrene which if you were so unpatiall and patient as to read without prejudice or passion you could not patiently review your own writing in this particular Smoke Pag. 47. Oppose with words as Paul did but not with sword and turning the edge of authoritie against us light In this you are opposite to Paul and your selfe both to Paul who expressely presseth to union in minde in judgement in speech 1 Cor. 1.10 and wisheth them cut off who trouble the Church Gal. 5.12 whereas you would have sects to be left to themselves and to your selfe whereas before you would have them let alone to die out most naturally without noise now you would have them opposed with words as Paul did but can there be words of opposition without any noise And for that you say against the coercion or execution by the sword it is impertinently proposed to the Presbytery who take not upon them to turne the edge of authoritie any way and prejudiciall to the prudence and power of Magistrates as if they knew not when to use it unlesse they were admonished and moved by others unto it or might not use it against disturbers of the publique peace of Church and State Smoke Pag. 48. But how came you by such plentie as ten of the better sort for two of the worse Light There meeds none other answ to this quest then to repeat your words and mine aright Your selfe said * See my Examination of the New Querie Sect. 10. p. 34. I question not but some Presbyterians may be like the ten yet there are others like the two brethren who strive who should be the greatest To which mine Answer is If we keepe the proportion you brought in and make application accordingly we may say for two ambitious Presbyterians it is like there may be ten that are more modestly and humbly minded then to affect such a preeminence above their brethren Smoke Pag. 48. Indeed you are able to prove by the Magistrate that Presbytery is some of it Christs way that is an argument of power not of Scripture Light How farre the Presbyteriall government is Christs way is sufficiently set forth by the forecited Authour who hath professedly handled it but who I pray you offers to prove by the Magistracy that the Presbytery is Christs way they may prove it to the Magistrate but to doe it by the Magistrate is neither undertaken nor required by any Smoke Pag. 49. We had rather be a few with truth then a multitude against it Light If that were your minde you would rather close with Presbyterians whom you cannot deny to be sound and Orthodox in all matters of faith and godlinesse then with so many extravagant Sectaries who are so contradictory both to the Scripture and to themselves in their opposite Tenets that there must needs be very much untruth in
others besides them talke of new lights I doubt they are for the most part but like your Book which offers Smoke for light and some of them very destructive illusions of Satan as that of the Anabaptist of c Sleydan Comment ad an 1527. l. 6. fol. 87. b. Sangalli a Towne of Helvetia who cut off his owne Brothers head in his parents presence telling them it was revealed to him and commanded him of God he should do so and none of them such as may be a rule of direction to any societie of pious and prudent men much lesse to those by whose Authoritie the Government is to be set up and settled throughout the whole Kingdome Smoke Pag. 59. An Angel was yet to come with power and glory Light The Angel whereof John prophecie was to come after his time but now about sixteene hundred yeeres are passed since he had that vision and how can you say he is yet to come in respect of the time wherein we have this debate what Angel or Spirit hath stood by you as by Paul and told you that we must yet expect such an Angel to come and when he will come that when he comes he will bring a revelation of Church Government with him which hath been kept all this while in the darke if you have any warrant any good ground for such a vision and revelation from heaven shew it it is a matter of too great moment to be taken upon trust upon your bare word or of any mans alive and it may be Sir you may waite for this Angel as long as the Iewes have done for another Messias and at last faile of your expectation as they have done and for ever must doe Smoke Pag. 59. Or the Gospel will fill the earth with more light Light You sent forth your Dawnings of light the last yeare but in stead of faire day light next to follow you present us with a Smoke what Gospel-light you meane is too darke to me and it may be also to your selfe If you meane the new lights that Sectaries bragge of they are and I beleâ—ve all Scripture-learned Christians will take them but for the glimmerings of an ignis fatuus some illusive flashes from the shining of Satan when he puts on his holy-day habit and presents himselfe as in the apparition of an Angel of light 2 Cor. 11.14 To me they represent the juggling imposture of a Popish Priest of whom Erasmus writes in one of his Epistles that he got together many Crab-fishes and tied pieces of Wax candles lighted at their clawes who crawling up and downe in the Church-yard in the night made the lights moveable to and fro and the simple people seeing them at distance for they durst not come neere them the Priest made them beleeve they were soules come from Purgatorie which needed and craved the prayers of good people for their release As many as have not their eye sight hurt by your Smoke for Solomon sheweth Prov. 10.26 and experience complaines of it as ill for the eyes will take many of the new lights so much talked and boasted of by divers of your partie rather for such false illusions then for true illuminations Smoke Pag. 59. So as we should not shut up our selves too soone in the darke And now Reader judge whether it be my mis-application or his mis-interpretation Light That we might not be shut up too long in the darke I have brought all this light of truth to dispell your vapour of errour and slander and now I may I doubt not the premises considered and judiciously weighed conclude as you doe with an addresse to the Reader but with a necessary transmutation of your termes Now Reader judge whether mis-interpretation be not a word sooner said then proved as well as mis-application and whether it be my mis-interpretation or his mis-application Here he ends his exceptions against me and here I fixe my period of Apology against them A Postscript in Answer to Mr. Saltmarsh his Postscript consisting of two testimonies of Claudius Salmasius the one against the forme of Baptisme in the name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost the other for Independency of Churches 1. Of Baptizing in the Name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost YOur allegation out of the excellently learned Salmasius is lyable to manifold exceptions First In that you make him a German Writer whereas he is not a German but a Frenchman borne nor is he a Writer in Germany for he is an honorarius professor at Leyden in Holland where you say he is imployed by the State to write I suppose you are so addicted to noveltie you will not for your defence have recourse to a record of Antiquitie which a Salmas de Primatu Papae c. 17 p. 261. Salmasius citeth out of Marcellinus wherein both Germanyes and Belgium were comprehended under the name of France Secondly But to come from the man to the matter your allegation out of him consisteth of two particulars the first whereof is of the manner of Baptisme for that you cite Salmasius thus First That the Baptizing in the Name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost is not the way of Baptisme practised by the Apostles Secondly The Baptisme of Apostolicall use and institution is in the rivers not with invocation of the three persons seeing the Apostles baptized onely in the Name of the Lord Iesus Christ the later of these you set down in the words of b Baptisma in aquis perennibus Apostolici instituti moris sed non invocatio Trinitatis super Baptizatum cum Apostoli in solo nomine Jesu Baptizarent Salmas in Apparat ad lib. de Primatu Papa pag. 193. Salmasius in Latine wherein three things are to be considered 1. The forme of Baptisme In the Name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost 2. The matter of it River water 3. The scope of Salmasiâ—â— in these assertions of Baptisme First For the forme of Baptisme Salmasius doth not as you doe Except against that forme of Baptisme at all much lesse for this reason c Smoke p. 13 14. of the first order of figures because Iesus Christ left it not made up to the hands of the Apostles for if the Apostles baptized onely in the Name of the Lord Iesus it doth not appeare they had any forme for that left unto them by Christ no more then of the other In the Name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost And if the Apostles used that forme it was not because the other was unlawfull but because it was that wherein the practice of Baptisme began in the Ministery of Iohn Baptist Act. 19.4 and yet from your own d Smoke p. 14. nâ— 6. Exposition of Baptizing In the Name of Iesus Christ in your next word 〈◊〉 will follow that it is as lawfull to baptize In the Name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost as in the Name of the Lord Iesus Secondly For the matter of Baptisme River-water
you differ much from Salmasius for he takes it literally e Smoke Ibid. pag. 13. you figuratively Thirdly For the scope Salmasius his ayme in what he said of the manner of Baptisme and other Rites was to shew the diversitie of them and various use of them for confutation of the superstitions of Papists but you bring it in to plead for the presumption and countenance the continuacy of Antipopish Sectaries Your other Testimony you bring in thus Salmasius his Testimony against the present Presbyteriall way You might have added as you English it afterwards for the Independency of Churches If he write for Independency of Churches against the Presbyteriall way he is an Independent and then I may retort the Testimony upon you and make the Title thus The Testimony of Salmasius 〈◊〉 Independent for the The Presbyteriall way against Independency For I can bring as good evidence for the Presbyteriall way out of Salmasius as you can doe against it and yet is not Salmasius a f That Mr. Saltm may not thinke me too youthfull in bringing in this paranomasie and so with an affected gravitie take upon him to reprove me for it I will present him with some examples of paranomasies in the Hebrew of the old Testament as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God shall enlarge or perswade Japhet Gen. 9.27 and in that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Dan shall iudge his people Gen. 49.16 and in that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nabal is his name and folly is with him 1 Sam. 25.25 and in the Greeke of the New Testament as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Rom. 1. vers 29.31 and in the Fathers as in Augustine who speaking of Faustus the Manichee saith thus Legent qui volunt invenient aut falli imprudenter aut fallere impudenter Aug. contr Faust Manich. lib. 22. cap 32. and in another place Nihil opus est ut eâ— cum discrimine definiantur quae sinc crimine nesciuntur Aug. de Trin. lib. 8. cap. 5. Saltmarshius mutable in his Tenets unconstant and contradictory to himselfe as you are His words that seeme to make for you you â—â—t down first in Latine which you so cite as he that taketh you for a faithfull Scribe must take him for a very poore Scholler and ignorant of Grammer who is acknowledged by competent Iudges of his abilities abundantly witnessed in works to be a man eminently furnished with all kinde of knowledge for in fourteene lines you set down no fewer then seventeene errours which must imply either grosse ignorance or supine negligence in your selfe or in those whom you employed in the printing of your booke as he that diligently compareth his originall and your transcript will acknowledge and secondly in English thus g Duobus modis haec Independentia Ecclesiarum accipi potest si vel respectum non habeant ad viciuâ—s ullas Ecclesias aut si non pendeant ab authoritate aliquot Ecclesiarum simul in unam Classem vel Synodum conjunctarum cujus conventâ—â— partem ipsae faciant prior modus similior reperitur primitivae Ecclesiae praxi consuetudini ac usui quo voluntaria haec communio inter Ecclesias fuit posterior magis convenit cum instituto quod postea juris humani dispositione introduction est Hoc pos teriore modo libertaâ— particularium Ecclesiarum magis imminuta videtur quam priore Sed quod ab initio fuerit voluntatis postâ—â— factaâ— est juris Hoc jus sane positivum atque Ecclesiasticum humanumque 〈◊〉 divinum juris est quidem divini ut una sit Ecclesia Christi unitaâ— autem ejuâ— non gregalium aut concorporâ—lium plurium adurata collectione consistit sed in 〈…〉 doctriâ—â— unâ—â—imi consâ—nsionâ— Salmasius in apparatu ad libr. de Primat Papae pag. 265. 266. This Independency of Churches may be taken two wayes either as not having respect to any neighbour Churches or as not depending on the authoritie of some Churches that are ioyned in some Classes or Synod of which the Churches themselves may make a part The former way is found to be more like the practise custome and use of the Primitive Church whereby this voluntary communion was among the Churches The latter way doth more agree with the institution which afterwards was introduced by a humane authoritie By this latter way the libertie of particular Churches seemes to be lesse more you should say diminished then by the former But that which from the beginning was arbitrary afterwards is made necessary as a law This law truly is positive and Ecclesiasticall and humane not divine 'T is by a divine law that the Church of Christ should be one but the unitie of it doth not consist in the union or collection of many that are of the same flocke or body but in the unanimous consent agreement in faith and doctrine In this saying of Salmasius you have not a word against the lawfulnesse of the subordination of Churches in the Presbyteriall Government and that which sounds in favour of Independency is but this First That the States of Churches by themselves without respect or relation to any neighbour Churches are more like the practise custome and use of the Primitive Church where a voluntary communion was among the Churches He doth not say our Saviour did institute that Government nor that the Apostles gave any order for it nor that it was the same that was in the Primitive Church but that it was like the practise custome and use of the Primitive Church And so we say of Baptizing in rivers of receiving the Sacrament at night of the love feasts greetings with an holy kisse and communitie of goods and many other particulars but it will not follow that in our time and State it is better to Baptize in rivers then in Churches to receive the Sacrament at night then in the morning and to continue those love feasts and kisses of love which for the abuse of them were left off by the religious many hundred yeares agoe nor that communitie of goods is better then the proprietie of them as in the present age Secondly He saith The later way that is of union of Churches in Classes and Synods doth more agree with the institution which afterwards was introduced by humane authoritie To which I answer that the Institution of it might be before and the practise of it according to the Institution come in afterwards or if it were but instituted afterwards by humane authoritie it doth not follow that it was without much lesse against authoritie divine for he saith as you cite him it is by a divine law that the Church of Christ should be one if so it is a dictate of naturall prudence which is a beame of divine light though not an expresse and positive law of God that all just and fit meanes to preserve this union so farre as the State and condition of the Church and time will permit be made use of it and that is an union in Classicall and
Synodicall Assemblies Thirdly That by this later way that is the way of association and subordination in and to both Classes and Synods the libertie of particular Churches seemes to be more diminished where he speaketh cautelously saying it seemeth to be more diminished it may seeme and yet not be as it seemes but if the libertie be more diminished the safetie of it by that meanes is more assured and the authoritie of it the more strengthened while it governeth aright in that if the censures of it be slighted while they are just they will be ratified by the superiour Assembly and the contumacy of offenders the more kept down Fourthly That what from the beginning was Arbitrary afterward was made necessary as a law this law truly is Positive Ecclesiasticall and Humane not Divine It might be arbitrary from the beginning while there were few Christians for Churches few Churches for union and those perhaps not so situate that they could with convenience or safetie come under such a combination or subordination as was requisite for the Churches securitie against heresie and schisme but if after the beginning how long or little a while is hard to know it were thought so necessary as to be formed up into a law though it were not divine but humane positive and Ecclesiasticall and coming under no complaint for impietie against God or injury to man and withall conducing directly to such ends as but now I noted it is more for subordinate Presbytery then that which hath been alleadged for the Independency which you and your party so importunately plead for All this considered that you have produced in the name of Salmasius for the Independent and against the Presbyteriall way will doe you little good especially if it be known what he writeth against Independency of which since you silently smother it I will make some supply An expresse and cleare Testimony of Salmasius against Independency h Quod tamen nullo modo iis suffragatur qui censent unamquamque Ecclesiam habere potestatem Independentem nec probant plurium Ecclesiarum conjunctionem sub directione Classium ut vocant vel Synodorum paulo post Which notwithstanding makes nothing for them who thinke every Church hath an Independent power and approve not the uniting of many Churches under the direction of Classes or Synods And a little after he saith i Totalis inquit Indepenentia earum ab omni alia Ecclesia minime laudanda nec recipienda Salmal Apparat. ad lib. de Primat Pap. p. 265. Their totall Independency upon any other Church is neither worthy of praise nor of acceptation And again he saith k Si eo tempore cum Spiritus Christi Ecclesias per Apostolos suos regeret ac dirigeret non tamen eae Independentes fuere quanto minus nunc in hac Seculorum extrema colluvie cum tot haeresibus quasi loliis Zizaniis Ecclesia tota inquinata sit admitti oportet hanc Ecclesiarum singularum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 absolutam qua non debeant ad vicinos referre conventus cum nodus apud sc viâ—dice dignus inciderit nec a concilio plurium Ecclesiarum simul junctarum ex viciniae commoditate gubernari sustineant Vnitâ—s omnium toto orbe dispersarum Ecclesiarum sub uno Pastore Christo in unam Doctrinam consentientium non potest constare absque communione nec communio absque communicatione communicatio autem nulla esse potest ubiomâ—â—s inter se sunt Independentes Salmas Apparat. ad lib. de Primatu Papae p. 267. If the Churches were not Independent at that time when the Spirit of Christ by his Apostles ruled and governed them how much lesse in this last colluvies of ages when the whole Church is pâ—stered with so much cockle and tares of heresies should this absolute self-ruling of all Churches be admittedâ— according to which if they meet with a knotty difficultie they may not referre it to their neighbouring conventions nor will they be governed by an Assembly of divers Churches which vicinitie hath commodiously united The unitie of all the Churches dispersed through the world under one Shepherd Christ and consenting to one Doctrine cannot stand without communion nor that communion without communicaâ—ation which can be none where all are Independent on each other And that this is the minde of Salmasius without imposing any thing upon him or wresting his words to any other sence then he inâ—ended as you doe I am assured by the Testimony of a godly and learned Divine of great integritie and reputation with those that know him who had conference with Salmasius in Holland while his Booke was at Presse and where counting the time of printing and accidentall pawses it l Prodit ecce tandem noster de Frimatu Papae Tractatus prima quidem tantum sui parte diu a multis expectatâ— quia diu sub praelo morâ—s traxit ob varias Sonticas causas mode absentiae meae modo valetudinis interdum aliarum occupationum saepius interruptus Ante quinquenuium excudi coeptus hoc demum tempore lucem videt Salmas initio Epist Lect. praefix Apparat. ad lib. de Primatu Papae continued five yeares together and told me that his scope in that Booke was to oppose the extreames Popery on the one side and Independency on the other and to assert the middle and moderate way of Presbyteriall Government These two quotations out of Salmasius the one a little before the other the next page after the Testimony produced by you may give just cause of suspition that you meant to delude your Reader with a maimed allegation omitting what made against you by a fraudulent Apharesis and Apocope of the precedent and subsequent words unlesse it be more like that you never saw the Booke but had the Testimony sent you in some piece of paper which contained no more then you have made use of Which we may the rather beleeve because the mistakes were so many in Salmasius his Text as could hardly have been if you had taken your Testimony at the first hand FINIS