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A54132 England's present interest discover'd with honour to the prince and safety to the people in answer to this one question, What is most fit ... at this juncture of affairs to be done for composing ... the heat of contrary interests & making them subservient to the interest of the government, and consistent with the prosperity of the kingdom? : presented and submitted to the consideration of superiours. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 1675 (1675) Wing P1279; ESTC R1709 45,312 70

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things for their Country And if we had no other Instance then our own Intervals of Connivance they were enough to satisfie reasonable men how much more Moderation contributes to publick Good then the Prosecution of People for their Religious Dissent since the one hath ever produced Trade and Tranquillity the other greater Poverty and Dissension The second Objection and by far the more weighty runs thus Obj. The King and Parliament are sworn to maintain and protect the Church of England as establisht c. therefore to tolerate other Opinions is against their Oath Answ Were the Consequence true as it is extreamly false it were highly unreasonable to expect Impossibilities at their Hands Kings and Parliaments can no more make Brick without Straw then Captives They have not sworn to do things beyond their Ability Had it been in His and their Time and Choice when the Church of England had been first disturbed with dissenting Opinions it might have reflected more colourably a kind of Neglect upon them But since the Church of England was no sooner a Church then she found some sort of Dissenters and that the utmost Policy and Severity of Q. Elizabeth King James and King Charles the 1st were not successful towards an absolute Uniformity Why should it reflect upon them that the Church of England hath not yet rid her self of Dissenting Parties Besides it is Notorious that the late Wars gave that Opportunity to Differing Perswasions to spread that it was utterly impossible for them to hinder much less during the several Years of the King's Exile at what time the present Parliament was no Parliament nor the generality of the Members of it scarce of any Authority Let it be considered that 't was the Study of the Age to make People Anti-Papistical and Anti-Episcopal and that Power and Preferment went on that side Their Circumstances therefore and their Ancestors are not the same They find the Kingdom Divided into several Interests and it seems a Difficulty insurmountable to reduce them to any one Perswasion wherefore to render themselves Masters of their Affections they must necessarily govern themselves towards them on a Ballance as before exprest otherwise they are put upon the greatest Hazards and extreamest Difficulties to themselves and the Kingdom and all to perform the Uncharitable Office of suppressing many Thousands of Inoffensive Inhabitants for the different Exercise of their Conscience to God This is not to make them resemble Almighty God the Goodness of whose Nature extends it self universally thus to narrow his Bowels and confine his Clemency to one single Party of Men It ought to be remembred that Optimus went before Maximus of old and that Power without Goodness is a frightful Sort of a Thing But Secondly I deny the Consequence viz. That the King is therefore oblieged to persecute Dissenters because he or the Parliament hath taken an Oath to maintain the Church of England For it cannot be supposed or intended that by maintaining Her they are to destroy the Rest of the Inhabitants Is it impossible to protect her without knocking all the rest on the Head Do they allow any to Supplant her Officers Invade her Livings Possess her Emoluments Exercise her Authority What would she have Is she not Church of England still in the same Regency invested with the same Power bearing the same Character What Grandeur or Interest hath she lost by them Are they not manifestly her Protector Is she not National Church still And are not the greatest Offices Civil Military and Maritin conferr'd upon her Sons And can any of her Children be so insensible as either to challenge her Superiours with Want of Integrity because they had not performed Impossibilities or to excite them to that Harshness which is not only destructive of many Thousands of Inhabitants but altogether injurious to their own Interest and dishonourable to a Protestant Church Suppose Dissenters not to be of the visible Church are they therefore unfit to live Did the Jews treat Strangers so severely that had so much more to say then her self Is not the King Lord of Wastes and Commons as well as Inclosures Suppose God hath elected some to Salvation doth it therefore follow he hath reprobated all the rest And because he was God of the Jews was he not therefore God of the Gentiles or were not the Gentiles his People because the Jews were his peculiar People To be brief They have answer'd their Obligation consented to severe Laws and commanded their Execution in that they have still preferr'd her above Every Interest in England to render her more Powerful and Universal till they have good Reason to be tired with the Lamentable Consequences of those Endeavours and to conclude that the Uniformity thereby intended is a thing Impracticable And I wonder that these men should so easily forget that great Saying of King CHARLES the 1st whom they pretended so often and with so much Honour to remember in his Advice to the present King where he saith Beware of Exasperating any Factions by the Crossness and Asperity of some Mens Passions Humours or Private Opinions imployed by You grounded only upon their Differences in Lesser Matters which are but the Skirts and Suburbs of Religion wherein a Charitable Connivance and Christain Toleration often Dissipates their Strength whom Rougher Opposition Fortifieth and puts the Despised and Oppressed Party into such Combinations as may most Enable them to get a Full Revenge upon Those they count their Persecutors who are commonly Assisted with that Vulgar Commiseration which attends all that are said to Suffer under the Common Notion of Religion So that we have not only the King's Circumstances but his Father's Counsel who saw not the End of one half of them defending a Charitable Connivance and Christian Toleration of Dissenters Obj. 3. But it may be further alledged This makes way for Popery or Presbytery to undermine the Church of England and mount the Chair of Power and Preferment which is more then a Prudential Indulgence of Different Opinions And yet there is not any so probable an expedient to vanish those Fears and prevent any such Design as keeping all Interests upon the Ballance for so the Protestant makes at least six Parties against Popery and the Church of England at least five against Presbytery and how either of them should be able to turn the Scale against five or six as free and thriving Interests as either of them can pretend to be I confess I cannot understand But if one only Interest must be tolerated which implies a Resolution to suppress the Rest plain it is that the Church of England ventures her single Party against six growing Interest and thereby gives Preshytery and Popery by far an easier Access to Supremacy especially the latter for that it is the Religion of those Parts of Europ which neither want Inclination nor Ability to prosper it So that besides the Consistency of such an Indulgence with the Nature of a Christian-Church there
Relief and by their Help freed all their Cities from the sharp Bondage of their Natural Lords The State of Sparta was grown Powerful and opprest the Thebans they though but a weak People yet whetted the Despair and the Prospect of greater Miseries by the Athenians deliver'd themselves from the Spartan Yoak Nor is there any other considerable Reason given for the Ruin of the Carthagenian State then Avarice and Severity More of this is to be found in W. Raileigh's History of the World lib. 3. who hath this witty Expression in the same Story l. 5. of a severe Conduct When a forced Government saith he shall decay in Strength it will suffer as did the old Lion for the Oppression done in his Youth being pintcht by the Wolf goar'd by the Bull and kickt also by the Ass This lost Caesar Borgia his New and Great Conquests in Italy No better Success attended the severe Hand held over the People of Naples by Alphonso and Ferdinand 'T was the undue Severity of the Sicilian Governours that made the Syracusans Leontines and Messenians so easie a Conquest to the Romans An harsh Answer to a petitioning People lost Rehoboam Ten Tribes On the contrary in Livy Dec. 1 l. 3. we find that Petilia a City of the Brutians in Italy chose rather to endure all Extremity of War from Hannibal then upon any Condition to desert the Romans who had govern'd them moderately and by that gentle Conduct procur'd their Love even then when the Romans sent them Word they were not able to relieve them and wisht them to provide for their own Safety N. Machiavel in his Discourses upon Livy p. 542. tells us that one Act of Humanity was of more Force with the Conquer'd Falisci then many violent Acts of Hostility which makes good that Saying of Seneca Mitius imperanti melius paretur They are best obeyed that govern most mildly 9. And lastly If these ancient Fundamental Laws so agreeable with Nature so suited to the Disposition of our Nation so often defended with Blood and Treasure so carefully and frequently ratified shall not be to our great Pilots as Stars or Compass for them to steer the Vessel of this Kingdom by or Limits to their Legislation no Man can tell how long he shall be secure of his Coat enjoy his House have Bread to give his Children Liberty to work for Bread and Life to eat it Truly this is to justifie what we condemn in Roman-Catholiks It is one of our main Objections that their Church assumes a Power of assuring People what is Religion thereby denying Men the Liberty of walking by the Rules of their own Reason or Precepts of Holy Writ To which we oppose both We say the Church is tyed to act nothing contrary to Reason and that Holy Writ is the declar'd fundamental Law of Heaven to maintain and not to usurp upon which Power is given to the true Church Now let us apply this Argument to our Civil Affairs and it will certainly end in a reasonable Limitation of our Legislators that they should not impose that upon our Understandings which is inconsistent with them to embrace nor offer any the least Violation upon the Fundamental Law of the Land from whence they derive their Power to prosper such Attempts Do the Romanists say Believe as the Church Believes Do not the Protestants and which is harder Legislators say so too Do we say to the Romanists at this rate Your Obedience is blind and your Ignorance is the Mother of Devotion Is it not also true of our selves Do we object to them This makes your Religion sluid as the Rivers one Thing to Day and another to morrow any Thing the Church saith or doth Doth not our own Case submit us to the like Variation in Civils Have we not long told them that under Pretence of obeying the Church and not controling her Power she hath raised a Superstructure inconsistent with that Foundation she pretends to build upon And are not we the Men in Civils that make our grand Priviledges to depend upon Men not Laws as she doth upon Councils not Scripture If this be not Popery in Temporals what is It is humbly beseecht of those Superiours that it would please them to consider what Reflection such severity justly brings upon their Proceedings and remember that in their ancient Delegations it was not to define resolve and impose Matters of Religion and sacrifice Civil Priviledges for it but to maintain the Peoples Properties according to the ancient Fundamental Laws of the Land and to super-add such Statutes only as were consistent with and preservative of those Fundamental Laws To conclude this Head My plain and honest Drift has all along been neither more nor less then this to show that Church Government is no real Part of the old English Government and to disintangle Property from Opinion the untoward Knot the Clergy for several Ages have tyed the which it is not only the Peoples Right but our Superiours Interest to undo for it gauls both People and Prince For where Property is subjected to Opinion the Church interposes and makes something else requisite to enjoy Property then belongs to the Nature of Property and the Reason of our Possession is not our Right by Obedience to the common Law but Conformity to Church-Law a thing dangerous to Civil Government for 't is an Alteration of old English Tenure a suffering the Church to trip up supplant the State a making People to owe their Protection not to the Civil but Ecclesiastical Authority For let the Church be my Friend and all is well make her my Foc and I am made her Prey Let Magna Charta say what she will for me my Horses Cows Sheep Corn Goods go first my Person to Goal next and here 's some Church Trophys made at the Conquest of a peaceable Dissenter This is that anxious Thing May our Superiours please to weigh it in the equal Scale of Doing as they would be done by Let those Common Laws that fix and preserve Property be the Rule and Standard Make English Men's Rights as inviolable as English Church Rights Disintangle and distinguish them And let not Men sustain Civil Punishments for Ecclesiastical Faults but for Sins against the ancient establisht Civil Government only that the Natures of Acts and Rewards may not be confounded so shall the Civil Magistrate preserve Law secure his Civil Dignity and Empire and make himself Belov'd of English Men whose Cry is and the Cry of whose Laws has ever been Property more sacred then Opinion Civil Right not concerned with Ecclesiastical Discipline nor forfeitable for Religious Non-conformity But though an inviolable Preservation of English Rights of all things best secureth to our Superiours the Love and Allegiance of the People yet there is something further that with Submission I offer to their serious Consideration which in the second place concerns their Interest and the Peoples Felicity and that is their Discord about
the lawful Inheritance of all Commoners That all Statute-Laws or Judgments whatsoever made in Opposition thereunto should be null and void That all the Ministers of State and Officers of the Realm should constantly be sworn to the Observation thereof and so deeply did after-Parliaments reverence it and so care ful were they to preserve it that they both confirm'd it by 32. several Acts and enacted Copies to be taken and lodg'd in each Cathedral of the Realm to be read four times a Year publickly before the People as if they would have them more oblig'd to their Ancestors for redeeming and transmitting those Priviledges then for begetting them And that Twice every Year the Bishops apparel'd in their Pontificials with Tapers burning and other Solemnities should pronounce the greater Excommunication against the Infringers of the Great Charter though it were but in Word or Counsel for so saith the Statute I shall for further Satisfaction repeat the Excommunication or Curse pronounced both in the Dayes of Henry the Third and Edward the First The Sentence of the Curse given by the Bishops with the King's Consent against the Breakers of the Great Charter IN the year of our Lord 1253. the third day of May in the great Hall of the King at Westminster in the Presence and by the Consent of the Lord Henry by the Grace of God King of England and the Lord Richard Earl of Cornwall his Brother Roger Bigot Earl of Norfolk Marshal of England Humphry Earl of Hereford Henry Earl of Oxford John Earl Warren and other Estates of the Realm of England We Boniface by the Mercy of God Arch-Bishop of Canterbury Primate of England F. of London H. of Ely S. of Worcester E. of Lincoln W. of Norwich P. of Hereford W. of Salisbury W. of Durham R. of Excester M. of Carlile W. of Bath E. of Rochester T. of St. Davids Bishop apparell'd in Pontificials with Tapers burning against the Breakers of the Churches Liberties and of the Liberties and other Customes of this Realm of England and namely these which are contained in the Charter of the Common Liberties of England and Charter of the Forrest have denounced Sentence of Excommunication in this Form By the Authority of Almighty God the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost c. of the blessed Apostle Peter and Paul and of all Apostles and of all Martyrs of blessed Edw. King of England and of all the Saints of Heaven We Excommunicate and Accurse and from the Benefit of our Holy Mother the Church we sequester all those that hereafter willingly and maliciously deprive or spoil the Church of her Right and all those that by any Craft or Willingness do violate break diminish or change the Churches Liberties and free Customs contained in the Charters of the Common Liberties of the Forrest granted by our Lord the King to Arch-Bishops Bishops and other Prelates of England and likewise to the Earls Barons Knights and other Free-holders of the Realm and all that secretly and openly by Deed Word or Counsel do make Statutes or observe them being made and that bring in Customs to keep them when they be brought in against the said Liberties or any of them all those that shall presume to judge against them and all and every such Person before-mention'd that wittingly shall commit any Thing of the Premises let them well know that they incur the aforesaid Sentence ipso facto The Sentence of the Clergy against the Breakers of the Articles above-mentioned IN the Name of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost Amen Whereas our Soveraign Lord the King to the Honour of God and of holy Church and for the common Profit of the Realm hath granted for him and his Heirs for ever these Articles above-xwriten Robert Arch-Bishop of Canterbury Primate of all England admonished all his Province once twice and thrice because that Shortness will not suffer so much delay as to give knowledge to all the People of England of these Presents in writing We therefore enjoyn all Persons of what Estate soever they be that they and every of them as much as in them is shall uphold and maintain these Articles granted by our Soveraign Lord the King in all Points And all those that in any Point do resist or break or in any manner hereafter Procure Counsel or in any wise Assent to Testifie or Break those Ordinances or go about it by Word or Deed openly or privily by any manner of Pretence or Colour we the aforesaid Arch-Bishop by our Authority in this Writing expressed do Excommunicate and Accurse and from the Body of our Lord Jesus Christ and from all the Company of Heaven and from all the Sacraments of Holy Church do sequester and exclude We may here see that in the obscurest Time of Popery they were not left without a Sence of Justice and the Papists whom many think no Friends to Liberty and Property under dreadful Penalties injoyn an inviolable Observance of this great Charter by which they are confirm'd And though I am no Roman Catholick and as little value their other Curses pronounc'd upon Religious Dissents yet I declare ingenuously I would not for the World incur this Curse as every Man deservedly doth that offers Violence to the Fundamental Freedoms thereby repeated and confirmed And that any Church or Church Officers in our Age should have so little Reverence to Law Excommunication or Curse as to be the Men that either vote or countenance such Severities as bid Defiance to the Curse and rend this memorable Charter in pieces by disseizing Free-men of England of their Freeholds Lib●●ties Properties meerly for the Inoffensive Exercise of their Co●science to God in Matters of Worship is a Civil sort of Sacriledge I know it is usually objected That a great Part of the Charter is spent on the Behalf of the Roman Church and other Things now abolisht and if one Part of the great Charter may be repeal'd or invalidated why not the other To which I answer This renders nothing that is Fundamental in the Charter the less valuable for they do not stand upon the Legs of that Act though it was made in Honour of them but the Ancient and primitive Institution of the Kingdom If the Petition of Right were repeal'd the great Charter were never the less in Force it being not the Original Establishment but a Declaration and Confirmation of that Establishment But those Things that are abrogable or abrogated in the great Charter were never a Part of Fundamentals but hedg'd in then for present Emergency or Conveniency Besides that which I have hitherto maintained to be the Common and Fundamental Law of the Land is so reputed and further ratified by the Petition of Right 3 Car. 1. which was long since the Church of Rome lost her Share in the Great Charter Nor did it relate to Matters of Faith and Worship but-Temporalities only the Civil Interest or Propriety of the Church But with what