Metropolitical Church you may learn of the most Reverend Primate Dr. Usher a man I think of great Authority among you also as among all Scholars most justly I refer you to his Geographical Tract of the Asian Diocese Tr. Return to the Text Mat. 18. v. 19. I shall prove it undeniably that a single Church hath an independent power But first will you grant me that two or three may be taken for a small Congregation B. Yes I desire to grant you all I can without injury to the Truth Tr. Then thus I argue Where is the Duty and the Blessing there is the Power But in a small Congregation where two or three c. is both the duty and the Blessing Therefore there is also the Power namely of Excommunication B. Where is the duty c. You leave out a very necessary word Independent For supposing that a power of Excommunication were in a particular Congregation I cannot grant it is there independently but there may be an Appeal But did you ever hear of an Indepent Church of two or three Tr. Yes there may be a Church of so few and that independent B. A private Church I grant not a publick enabled with power of Excommunication a power supreme Lo you here is Popery in a little volume an independent absolute supreme Church made up of two or three H. Did you not grant to Mr. Tr. that two or three may be taken for any small number now you recall your words You know if there be twenty in a company we sometimes say there be two or three B. No indeed that 's too far wide Let the people judge of this whether any will say there be two or three if there be twenty persons met in a room Two or three that is twenty silence I pray But Sir the words of Christ are verified if there be but barely two And therefore I may justly think it too small a number to make the Church mentioned v 17. It cannot be for this reason The Church in the 17. v. is of more authority and more in number than the two or three mentioned in the second admonition v. 16. But two or three v. 19 20. are not of more authority nor more in number than the two or three mentioned v. 16. Therefore the two or three v. 19 20. are not the Church mentioned v. 17. Answer this and you shall hold your Supremacy to the worlds end for me H. You hold an Appeal from the Church to the Civil Power which is plain Erastianism B. Erastianisme I shall make it appear to be Christianisme But what was Erastus pray H. I came not here to be Catechized by you B. Erastus was one that denied the power of Excommunication in the Church which I do not but desire it may come into practice upon true Rules If you would know Erastus see the Book of Binding and loosing at large And noble Sir you that are a Civil Magistrate let me call you to witness that I stand here an Advocate truly to plead for the Supreme authority of this Land and I undertake to shew that the Highest powers in the Commonwealth have also the Highest Rule of the Church and may receive Appeals from any Christians that complain of wrong in any Congregation whatsoever Col. A. The Highest Powers haply doubt of that Authority and forbear to execute any such till they be more fully satisfied B. Were I worthy I would request them to know their power and use it for the restitution of Primitive Episcopacy They doubt you say but Sir these men flatly deny that authority of the Civil Magistrate in matters of Religion H. And how I pray do you prove it B. Let every soul be subject to the Higher Powers Every man saith St. Chrysostome whether Lay or Clergy Col. A. There is no such distinction of Lay and Clergy in the Scripture All the Lords people are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his Portion B. Sir you say most true that All the Lords people are his Portion that is as selected and called out of the World but his Ministers are more peculiarly his as called from among his People and admitted nearer to him being separated for the Ministration of Holy things But however all sorts of men I say whether Ministers or others must be subject to the Highest powers Tr. Yea in Civil things they must be subject not in Ecclesiastical The Powers are distinct B. They are distinct in their Objects or Matters about which they are exercised they are united in the same Subjects or Persons that are supreme in all causes both Eccleclesiasticall and Civill W. You were wont to pray for the King in that stile B. Yes when the King was and now they that have the Kingly power may withall assume the same title if they please W. By no means Temporall Governors power Spirituall B. The power of Civill Magistrates in matters of religion is called Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall in respect of the object of it about which it is conversant not in respect of the manner of operating For the supreme powers do not minister in holy things in the Word and Sacraments and censures but they take care and provide that these ministrations be rightly and orderly performed H. But how prove you an appeal to be made to the highest power in a Church-case B. Saint Paul appealed unto Caesar Acts 25. 10 11. Tr. Yea but that appeal was in a cause concerning sedition B. Hear himself speak For the Resurrection of the dead am I called in question Act. 23. 6. W. That was said in policy to divide the Pharisees and Sadduces B. However the Apostle spake nothing but the truth as appears also by the words of Festus Act. 23. 19. The question was whether he might preach Jesus and the Resurrection Tr. That Caesar was Nero a heathen tyrant and persecutor a fit man to meddle with Religion B. He was it seems fir for Paul to appeal unto for want of a better and had he acquitted the Apostle he had thereby given him a right against the Jews See Grotius of Authority concerning this particular and the whole matter As for the Supremacy of Christian Kings this is one argument If the Jewish Kings had power in matters of Religion then have the Christian Kings the like power But the Jewish Kings c. To. Let me adde another Argument out of the Prophet concerning the Christian Church Kings shall be her nursing Fathers and Queenes her nursing Mothers W. Read out the verse and you are answered They shall bow down to thee with their faces to the earth Is 49. 23. Here is subjection rather than superiority To. A superiority of Government and Patronage is included in the name of Father but these Fathers are Sons of the Church too in another sense and subject to the spirituall guides of their soules subjection and Government may consist together in severall respects B. Will you turne to the Text in Matth. 18. once more and hear a
to order and administer the affaires of Gods House signifying the territory or circuit of a Bishop So Creet may be well called the Diocese of Bishop Titus having under his inspection as t is plaine the Elders of the Cities there W. The Cities were not under Titus his Government he was not a Ruler of the Iland B. He was Ruler of all the Christians I mean onely them through all the Cities and Country Tr. But Titus was an Evangelist Therefore no Bishop B. I deny the Consequence He was an Evangelist while he went about Preaching and Planting the Gospell And he was the Bishop of Creet when he was fixed there by Paul to Ordaine Elders and put in order the things that were wanting H. We find Titus in other places beside Creet and Bishops of those times were not non-residents Therefore he was not Bishop of Creet B. Bishops may lawfully be and were antiently non-resident for some time to wit while they attend the business of Religion abroad and procured the greater good of the Church In which time of their absence their places are supplyed at home by their Deputies Tr. But Sir I pray consider Titus was an extraordinary Governor and therefore no Diocesan Bishop And you dispute fallaciously unless you put in the word Ordinary B. I say he was a Diocesan Bishop or if you will rather an Archbishop For I conceive the Elders of every City to have been Bishops and Overseers of severall Ministers and Congregations therefore he was an ordinary Governour Thus I argue He that ordaines Elders and orders the things in the Churches is an Ordinary But Titus ordaines Elders and orders things in the Churches Therefore Titus is an Ordinary Tr. But I mean he was called to that office in an extraordinary manner B. No neither He was called in the same manner as Timothy and others by Imposition of the Presbytery Therefore He was called in an Ordinary manner Col. A. Timothy was called saith Paul in another place by the laying on of his hands B. Noble Sir you say very true and the places are easily reconciled thus Divers Elders laid hands on Timothy among whom S. Paul probably was chief H. And was Paul too a Diocesan Bishop B. The Apostles common Diocese was the whole world which by agreement they divided among them and S. Paul was especially the Apostle of the Gentiles But in the Apostles I grant some things are extraordinary Tr. Pray make it out cleerely that Titus his case is not extraordinary otherwise you dispute fallaciously B. Truth needs no sophistry Thus I make it out The office that is to continue in the Church and to be succeeded in through following ages is no extraordinary office But this office of Titus is such Therefore c. H. What is it to continue to the worlds end B. Yes to the worlds end For it is Christs Promise I am with you alway even to the end of the world Mat. ult ult What say you to my argument Ordination and Jurisdiction are Offices or Powers needfull to the Church in all Ages This Office of Power or Titus was Ordination and Jurisdiction Therefore this Office of Titus is needfull to the Church in all Ages and therefore no extraordinary Office And my Brethren I would have you to know we are able to shew out of the best Records and Monuments of the Antient Church that there was a succession to the Apostolicall Bishops in these parts of their Office And the Catalogues of succeeding Bishops in severall Apostolicall Sees are yet extant And the Fathers and Councills and Ecclesiasticall Histories come in here with undeniable evidence that Diocesan Bishops are successors of the Apostles in the Government of Churches H. See godly Brethren the subtilty of this man He will not contain himself within the Holy Scripture but tells us of Fathers and Ecclesiasticall Stories and human Authorities B. Who succeeded in the government of Churches after the Apostles we must learn out of the writings of the next Ages And I tell you not only Fathers and Church-story but all other good learning is requisite in a compleat Divine Mark this you bold unlearned new-speakers and expounders of Scripture Mark it and remember it well And for the question of Church-government especially it is impossible to find a better way to understand the Scripture than by the practice of the primitive times of the Christian Church H. Expound Scripture by the practice of the primitive Church Do ye heare him brethren as if Scripture needed the help of the Church We thought we should finde him enclining to Popery B. I detest all Popery charge me not so ignorantly Upon my life I will make it good by the judgment of the most learned and sound Protestants that the practice of the primitive Church is a great light to Scripture But this requires the searching of Books which at your lesure I should be glad to shew you W. Protestants Whom do you mean by Protestants B. I mean those that protest against the Errors Innovations of the Roman Church in latter times and endeavour to reform Religion according to the Scripture and the primitive pattern H. You see he takes in the practice of the Primitive Church again B. I do and must and thus I argue That Government which in the primitive Ages took place in the Churches planted by the Apostles is the Apostolicall and Scripture Government But the Government of Diocesan Bishops took place in the Churches planted by the Apostles Therefore the Government of the Diocesan Bishops is the Apostolicall and Scripture Government Now let me see who will answer me W. Antichrist Antichrist was working betimes B. Whether it be Antichristianism to establish or to over throw the Function of Bishops let all considering men judge by the Premises W. But why do you take in any thing else with Scripture as if that alone were not sufficient for us H. Yea Scripture Scripture we are contented with Scripture B. Give me leave to explain my self to All and I entreat you Harken The Scriptures perfection I do thankfully acknowledge but the things conteined in the Scripture are some of them conteined in it plainly and expresly to be apprehended by every Reader other things are conteined there implicitely virtually and so as there is need of many helps to make our deductions thence And for the Scripture-government I know no better light to shew it than the practice of the Antient Church I argue thus They that have commended to us the very Books of Scripture are fittest to give us the sense of them especially in point of Government But the Antient Church hath commended to us the very books of Scripture Therefore the Antient Church is fittest to give us the sense c. And I pray Mr. W. how will you prove that the Scripture is the Word of God W. I know it by the Testimony of the Holy Spirit in me B. But how will you convince another that will not believe your
with cursing and swearing All the rest forsook him and fled Their strength was little and their knowledge was less witness the Disciples going to Emaus fools and slow of heart and the question proposed about the Kingdom Acts 1. What is the lowest measure of grace I will not determine Where I see any hopes or weak beginnings of Christianity I embrace and cherish them In the School of Christ there be many little ones that must be gently used and there be some great ones that must not be offended but upon great reasons Why should I not think better of others than my self when the B. Apostle calls himself the chiefest of sinners and less than the least of Saints He that hath beams to cast out of his own eve must not be picking motes out of his Brothers eye 'T is true the Brother must be admonished especially by the Minister but this must be done discreetly and orderly and with meekness of spirit He that obeys one or a few scapes the censure of the Many and may not be reckoned as an alien None is so but he that proves obstinate after the methods of Counsel and Reproof And verily Mr. H. it had been a good method for you to have admonisht me and the rest of the Congregation whom you are offended with and to have received our Answer before you condemn'd us in your Pulpit And that Answer will serve now In what we have offended God we ask his pardon In what we have offended you we will give you satisfaction Thus doing we shall not be excluded from Communion by any just sentence H. You have some that might be named that both before and after the Communion have shewed themselves no sober men B. That may be and I shall desire to be informed of them that I may labour to reform them or exclude them if they be proved open and notorious evill livers And I do often commend and endeavour to bring into better practice the Duty of fraternall Admonition and Correption which is now the more necessary because we want publick Discipline see D. Hammond of Fraternall Admonition Having declared my self thus I must conclude your Argument against my Communicants till you prove your Accusation better to be only an Argument of your own uncharitableness H. I cannot yet allow of your Call to Minister For Ministers truly called are appointed and ordained by the Godly people But you are not so appointed Therefore B. You will I hope hereafter allow me equall liberty to oppose your Orders I have mine from a Bishop assisted by his Presbyters according to Apostolicall Institution and the constant practice of the Church The People cannot confer on us our power They may approve and assent to our Calling and give testimony of our good conversation and receive us when we are sent unto them I am owned as a Rector of the People to whom I Minister W. We are servants of Gods people Paul I am sure saith so of himself B. He saith so and so doe I their servant for Jesus sake Let them acknowledge us their spirituall Rulers and Fathers in Christ and we will in all humble condescension be their Servants for Jesus sake Jesus himself our Lord and Master stiles himself a Minister or Servant of his Servants and he hath said He that will be greatest among you let him be Servant of all 'T is easy to distinguish between a servant by voluntary condescension and a servant by necessary subjection Tr. You said before that in case of prophaning the holy things you would confess a Minister deserves suspension Who shall suspend him but the Congregation What other power is there B. I confessed the prophaner of Holy things to deserve great punishment but after due Admonition and upon his obstinacy not else Yet I cannot see how the people have any Authority to sentence him Tr. Who would you have to do it Who B. To speak freely I would submit my self to my Ordinary the Apostolicall Bishop or if you like the Latin word better the President or Superintendent for whom I have spoken before And I am ready to joyn with you in a Petition that we may have an Apostolicall Bishop set over us as it was in practice of the antient Church H. You stand too much upon the practice of the Antient Church come to the Scripture B. I am sorry you value the practice of the antient Church so little Pray where is your maine strength in Scripture for your Independent or Congregationall Churches H. Let us read the famous Text Mat 18 15 16 17 18 19. 20. Out of which Text I frame this Argument If here be meant by the Church a Congregation from which lyes no Appeale then is the Independent Church founded upon this Text But here is meant a Congregation c. What else will you conceive by the Church B. I am very inclinable to Saint Chrysostome's interpretation who by the Church understandands the Elders and Rulers of the Church H. The word Church is no where so taken in all the Scripture and therefore it cannot be so taken here shew us any place B. It doth not follow for some word may possibly signify that in one place which it signifies no where else and again there may be other places though I cannot readily shew them I will consider of it H. No I doe assure you t is never so used and therefore I hope you will yeeld to the Word that we may go on with one consent in the work of God B. God grant it if it be the Work of God but you have not cleered it yet I cannot yield to your sense for this Reason That sense of Scripture concerning Church-government which was never received by the Doctors of the Antient Church is not the true sense of Scripture But your sense of the place was never received c. H. Still still he declines Scripture and would lead us to human Ordinances B. As for human Ordinances I can embrace them so far as they are not opposite to Scripture but now we are upon the Interpretation of Scripture I must profess I have been ever bred in the Church that requires all her Ministers to receive the Scripture as interpreted by the Antient Fathers and to propose nothing to the people contrary to what was derived out of the Scripture by them I am not ashamed of my Mother the Church of England nor by Gods grace ever shall I. And I doe heartily warn all that hear me to take heed as they tender their Soules of departing rashly from the Communion of of the said Church W. I thought where we should have you B. You have me where I have ever been and where I mean to abide till I am convinced I am not unwilling to learn of any one And pray Mr. W. tell me whether you hold not a Synod of chosen men gathered out of your Churches to have authority over them all W. No authority at all such a Synod may be of
use for advice and counsell not for goverment or for the exercise of any jurisdiction B. Then as I conceive your modell is very imperfect and me thinks your Ministers in their severall Congregations look like so many little Popes For the Pope is the Great Independent and will allow of no Appeal from him no more will you H. Pray Mr. B. quiet the People B. I beseech you good people I beseech you attend with silence and patience Tr. Where presently followes Execution there can be no appeal But after the sentence of the Congregation presently followes execution If he hear not the Church let him c. Therefore from the sentence of the Congregation can be no appeal B. Well argued I repeat Where presently c. I answer first to the major or first proposition There may be an appeal after execution of the sentence of the Congregation In your own way may not the wronged person appeal from you to your selves In the Presbyterian you know there lyes an appeal to the Classis but that I take not on me to maintain I know no power to excommunicate but Episcopall Tr. Then it seems by you the Bishop is the Church and the sole judge of the Congregations B. Not so neither Hear my Answer I pray and do not you ignorant fellowes laugh at that you do not understand The Bishop is considered either Sole or alone or as he sits in Cathedra crowned with Presbyters In this later sense I humbly conceive the Bishop is or ought to be Governour of the Congregations within his Diocese And such Bishops we can shew innumerable in the ancient Records of the Catholique Church I am very sorry these Gentlemen are so ill read in good Books of our own English Divines as to deny a truth shining so bright upon them Mr. Tr. have you not seen the learned Thorndike of the primitive Government c Tr. We cleave to the Scripture and call you to the foresaid text Can you shew one place where Church is taken for the Bishop and his Presbyters B. What if I cannot The Authority of the antient Fathers is sufficient for the present to commend my interpretation to such as reverence Antiquity But because I would gladly please you I will offer another sense of the words in question which will come neer to you but is not fully yours That is after the first admonition by one and the second before two or three it is the mind of Christ that a greater number should be made acquainted with the business tell it to the Many for the shaming of the offendor as the Apostle somewhere speaks the words may the more probably be taken in this sense because as yet the Disciples were not setled under a Church-government and so there remaining no more to be done after this shaming of the offendor before a good number of Fellow-Christians i. e. the Church he was to be henceforth till his amendment accounted as a heathen and might be prosecuted for any offence before the heathen Tribunalls Which prosecution was not lawfull against those that would hear the Church See 1 Cor. 6. But this will do you no pleasure unless that which followes in the next verse belong unto the Congregation too but that cannot be if Christ spake the words to his Apostles and gave the Keys and Power of Binding and Loosing to them and their successors as I believe he did Consider of it See the learned Dr. Hammond of binding and loosing To. Give me leave to add somewhat here in confirmation of what was last said Scripture you know gives light to Scripture Christ elswhere saith to Peter that he would give the Keys to him Matth. 16. 19. And John 20. 21 21 23. he speaketh to his Disciples and thus enstateth them in that power Then said Jesus to them again Peace be unto you as my Father hath sent me even so send I you And when he had said this he breathed on them and said unto them Receive yee the holy Ghost whosoever sins yee remit they are remitted unto them and whosoever sins ye retain they are retained these are the solemn words of Ordination W. The words are spoken to Peter and to the Disciples as they were Christian professors and so they do belong to our people not as they were appointed by Christ to be Governours of his Church To. The words signify a power committed to them which they used as Governours 't is plain and which they left to the Bishops their Successours Tr. The Apostles had no successors being gifted with a miraculous power B. The Apostles are to be considered in two respects either as planters of the Churches and to that purpose endued with a miraculous power to make way for and to give confirmation to the Gospel or else as Governours of the Churches invested with the ordinary lasting power of ordaining Elders of binding and loosing and of setting things in order herein who were their Successors you may see if you will inform your selves in the book of binding and loosing and in the Latin dissertations against Blondellus Pray take it not ill that we often assert this it is of such concernence that with this truth the Ministers of England must either stand or fall We speak not for Bishops to be Lords of Lands but Fathers of the Church You must all mark that Tr. The difference 'twixt us appears plainly you are for Bishops which you call the Primitive Apostolical Bishops and in them you place the power which Christ hath left to his Church We are for the Bodies of Congregations which we say are under no superiors neither Bishops nor Presbyters but absolute and independent in respect of man and immediatly under Jesus Christ Col. A. Bishops and Presbyters are all one in the New Testament namely Acts 20. 17. Paul sent to Ephesus and called the Elders of the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and v. 28. the holy Ghost hath made you overseers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Therefore Presbyters and Bishops are all one P. Noble Sir I answer Bishops in the new Testament are also called Presbyters but they are more than those we now call Presbyters who are to be ordained and governed by the Bishops Any Presbyter may be called Bishop or Overseer of his own Parish but those we eminently stile Bishops now who are Bishops or Overseers and Rulers of those Parish Bishops or Presbyters The Presbyters St. Paul sent for from Ephesus were properly Bishops Tr. No Hear my Argument The Church of Ephesus was but one Congregation I prove it out of Eph. 2. the two last verses In whom Jesus Christ all the building fitly framed together c. A building fitly framed together is but one Congregation But the Church of Ephesus was a building fitly framed together Therefore c. B. To the Major Not only one single Congregation but many united under one Bishop may be so called And that Ephesus was not a single Independent Congregation but a
fair Interpretation of it out of the Excellent Paraphrast Tell it to the Church i. e. to the Rulers of the Assemblies Verily I say unto you to you the designed Rulers of the Church and your Successors the Bishops H. Enough enough pray who is your Author there B. Regard not so much who as what No matter whose the words are if they cleer the Text. This Author Mr. Tr. shews you the true sense of the next verse concerning two or three It is the manner of Scripture where severall things are mentioned to resume the last first and so go back In this retrogradous order the Power of the Church which was last mentioned is spoken of v. 18. and then the two or three are again mentioned which were spoken of v. 16. I will cleer it if you please by sundry the like passages See in of Binding and Loosing pag. 12. c. W. We have enough of you already I would not goe over the door sill to Dispute with one upon whose spirit I see so much of the Pope B. No Gloster-Hall man would say so but you And you say so because you have nothing else to say I am far from Popery and I doubt you are neer it with your Independency Col. A. But Pray-thee what Author have you there on the Text B. I will obey you It is the great ornament of the English Church the Learned and pious Doctor Hammond W. c. An Arminian an Arminian To. That 's a very indirect answer when the words alleged tend not to Arminianism but to the support of Christianism B. I feared you would cast some aspersion upon this Brave Man and therefore would have concealed his name under a silent veneration But you are mistaken when you think the Doctrine of Universall Redemption Arminianism It was the Doctrine of the Church of England before Arminius was born Wee learn it out of the old Church-Catechism I believe in Jesus Christ who redeemed me all mankind And the Church hath learned it out of the plaine Scripture where Christ is the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the World c. To. God would have all men to be saved Therefore Christ is the Redeemer of all men Col. A. Paul in that Text to Tim speaks de generibus singulorum not de singulis generum B. S. Paul speaks de singulis generum for elsewhere it is said Christ tasted death for every man Heb. 2. 9. a convincing Text. W. There is a distinction of voluntas signi beneplaciti B. If God hath signified and revealed to us that he would have all men to be saved then it is most true that he would have All men to be saved But he hath signified c. He knows not to lye or to dissemble C. I desire to propose an Argument in this Question if you please to answer me B. Most willingly You are a courteous Gentleman C. If Christ died for all men then shall all men be saved But all men shall not be saved Therefore B. I deny the sequel of your major C. Christ cannot fail of his intention Therefore if Christ died for all men all men shall be saved B. I deny your Antecedent C. To fail of ones intention argues imperfefection But you must not lay any imperfection upon Christ B. No by no meanes Therefore I answer One may fail of his intention two waye either by ones own fault or by the fault of another to whom good is intended Christ failes of his intention not through his own fault but ours he is not wanting to us we are wanting to our selves And I beseech you all dear Christians take heed of conceiving hard thoughts of God of Christ as if he would the death of a sinner Tr. God in his eternall Purpose hath appointed to save some and to damne others B. The purpose of God is absolute or conditionall God purposeth not the damnation of any absolutely but Conditionally upon his refusall of the meanes And for election consider what the Apostle saith He hath chosen us in Christ Eph. 1. 4. See also the judicious Mr. Hooker's distinction of Gods generall inclination and his occasioned Will lib. 5. s 49. Wherefore Beloved I charge you again Take heed that you think not ill of God and of Christ as if he were not really and sincerely willing you should be saved Hear Christ mourning affectionately over Jerusalem How oft would I and thou wouldst not Hear God speaking most pathetically in the Prophet As I live saith the Lord I desire not the death of a sinner Will you not take his word Take his Oath As I live saith the Lord I desire not the death of a sinner but that he turn from his way and live Turn ye Turn ye why will ye dye O house of Israel Turn yee Turn yee why will ye dye O yee opposers of the Truth H. You see Brethren what he is we have enough of him It is high time to conclude Sir I desire to conclude all with Prayer B. Sir I have answered your Objections and I take my leave of you For to your Prayers I fear I shall not be able to answer AMEN PSAL. 115. 1. Not unto us O Lord not unto us but unto Thy Name give the Prayse for thy Mercy and for thy Truths sake ADDITIONS ON the By it was said by Mr. To. that although there be no precept for Episcopacy in the New Testament the Apostolicall Institution of it is enough to commend it to us For we have not more to shew for the Lords day than for Episcopacy How then can we maintain the one and abolish the other When the opponent rejected the Authority of the Primitive Church Mr. To. said You do the Papists greater service than you are aware when for feare of Popery you disclaim the Fathers Col. A. In the Revelation the Lords day is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there is the name and we have the practice in other places Holy assemblies on the first day of the week To. True Sir and so much we have for Episcopacy as hath been shewed already B. I remember well I have heard the Learned Doctor of the Chair Dr. Prideaux publickly declaring in the Divinity School that he could not prove the observation of the Lords day by Divine Command in any place of the New Testament but that the Apostolicall practice and example followed by the Church was sufficient to give it a kind of Divine right The like may be said for Episcopacy Church by plain Grammaticall construction doth signify no other thing than the Lords house From 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Kyrc and by adding letters of aspiration Church Hooker l. 5. 13. See the great Hugo Grotius of Authority Ch. 11. Also the Considerations touching the change of Church-Government The Respondent not knowing the most eager Disputant among his Opponents craved his name I was your Collegue saith he B. What I. W. of Gloster-Hall you were an early student in
Divinity I remember you read Dr. Prideaux Lectures De Absoluto Decreto c. when you were but a Fresh-man He is now admonished to study his Antecessor at Tewksbury Mr. Geeres Book against Separation entituled Vindiciae Ecclesiae Anglicanae Another of the Opponents Mr. Tr. asked the Respondent whether he did not Preach before he was Ordained Yes said he once or twice in this Church above twenty years since being Mr of Arts and after that Tryall of my self I entred into Orders Your men do not so See Grotius of Authority pag. 181. Mr. W. At the mention of Christmas was startled and cried Popery Mr. B. Answered there is no hurt in the Word and for the Thing the keeping of that and other Christian Festivalls we commend the sober Christian to the Resolution of the sixt Quaere by the eminent Dr. Hammond Where the Respondent distinguisheth of Bishops as Lords as Fathers he would not have the Reader suspect him as if he envied any temporall Honour or Riches to the Fathers of the Church For who knew how to abound so well as They The good works of the Bishops of England would make a fair volume which perhaps some body will collect Our Mother Oxford especially cannot forget how magnificent Founders and Benefactors she hath had of this sacred Order One of the Opponents about admission of people to the Sacrament urged that proverbiall speech of Christ Matth. 7. 16. Do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles No said the Respondent while they continue such but on their Conversion they may For the true sense of that place hear the Divine Paraphrast By their fruits ye shall know them Ye shall certainly know them and discern them if you take notice of and weigh the doctrins which when they have gotten some Authority with you they will presently endeavour to infuse into you They that make no other use of their being counted Prophets but to infuse higher degrees of all kind of piety and charity into you ye may resolve they are sent from God For the Devill would never help men to credit and reputation in the world who should make use of it only to the advancement of piety But if their designs be to infuse into their followers any seeds of impiety injustice uncleanness uncharitableness sedition rebellion c. Let their pretences and behaviour be never so fair be sure they are false Prophets When it was said by the Respondent that Christ died for all men one Cr. a disciple of Mr. H. was heard to say Then it seems Christ dyed for the Devills and all nor considering that Divine Text to the Hebrews 2. 16. For verily he took not on him the nature of Angels but he took on him the seed of Abraham Where the Paraphrast judiciously as his manner is amending the Translation saith For t is not said any where that he catches hold of Angels as they are falling or running or carried captive from him to save or rescue them from ruine or to bring them out of captivity but only to men doth he this favour peculiarly To his Congregation at Sudeley-Castle ANd now Beloved I end with a Request to you in Saint Peter's words Giving all diligence adde to your Faith Vertue and to your Vertue Knowledge and to Knowledge Temperance and to Temperance Patience and to Patience Godliness and to Godliness Brotherly-kindness and to Brotherly-kindness Charity For if these things be in you abound the greatest objection of our Opponents will be then fully answered if it be not yet Let no man suffer sin upon his Brother but let us exhort and admonish one another lovingly and faithfully and let the most knowing and Zealous among you assist the Minister in the discharge of his duty that no open and notorious liver may presume to come with us to the Holy Table Let us pray for a setled Publick Discipline but in the mean let us settle our selves and keep as good order as we can Let us shew the sincerity of our Religion by our mutuall Love and by our Meekness and Charity to our Enemyes and Calumniators Let us evidence our having the Spirit not by bold intrusion into offices not committed to us but by bringing forth the fruits of the Spirit Love Joy Peace Long-suffering and the rest Finally let us not be weary of Welldoing but go on in every good Work with courage and alacrity with our eyes fixed upon Heaven so shall the mouth of the Adversary be stopped and the Lord shall open our lips and our mouth shall shew forth his praise Amen Your Servant for Christs sake C. B. Scripsi 23. Novem. die St. Clementis natali meo 45. An. Ch. 1653. N. N. To the Reader CHristian Reader Know that after the Disputation ended between two and three in the Afternoon Mr. B. and Mr. To. retired to their Inn whither the Baylifs and Churchwardens and some other honest men of the Town came to them and gave them thanks The next morning was deliver'd to a Servant of the Parish a Paper to be presented to Mr. H. and published declaring that some Neighbouring Ministers would be ready by Gods help on the Monday following to make good in the same place against Mr. H. and his brethren this necessary Truth which they deny That Parish-Churches of England are the true Churches of Jesus Christ They came but could not prevail with Mr. H. to come forth to Answer Wherefore after some little conference with him at his own house with the Account whereof I shall not now detein you Mr. B. departed and Preacht at Sudeley concluding with an exhortation to Peace and Unity and with an earnest Request to the Congregation that they would give no offence neither by word nor deed to the other party When the Account of the former Dispute was come down Mr. B. sent two Copies one to Mr. H. another to Mr. W. enclosed in these Letters which being come unto my hand I think fit not to conceal and shall adde unto them some other since to the end you may the better understand the Temper of the Author and in what condition he is at this present December 17. 1653. Master Helm HAd you hearkned unto me and embraced my motion for a private conference both you and I had saved some trouble but since the matter is come thus far I intreat you to peruse the account with judgement and let me receive from you any thing that may serve for the perfecting of it I have not wronged you nor do I remember any greater provocation in my former Letters but that I once said Your simple Disciples which word I have cause to retract finding by experience that they have much more of the Serpent than of the Dove From them I suppose rather than from your self is a tempest a raising against me in the Higher Region The opinion I have had of your Moderation and Ingenuity yea and some degree of friendship with you formerly enclines me