faultes if the persons did not like you I knowe your disposition where I dwell The 4. Demonstration That which is contrary to naturall affection and worketh the trembling of the very heart Demonstration may not be done but in extremitie So is excommunication Ergo. Why are not you afraid in your owne cause sith many of your crue stand excommunicate Remonstrance and yet like prophane Esau or Lucian the dogge make a ieste of it if you esteeme it not because Bishops doe inflict it we will and may vpon better ground contemne yours that lay elders determine whensoeuer you set vp shoppe The 2. Assertion of the Demonstration Excommunication must be done by the Elders Demonstration not by one man The 1. Demonstration That which Christ commaunded to bee done by the Church may not be done by one man but Christ commaunded so 18. Mat. 15. Ergo. What force is in your Maior Remonstrance The Church must pray for princes Ergo no one man may Christ commaunded at one time the Apostles to preach Ergo all must preach together and no one of them To the Minor This is most absurde for then hee commaunded to be done and ouerdone that is both done and vndone viz. both by the Presbyterie and then by the whole Congregation for so you teache If in those wordes Tell the Church the Church is the Eldership then the rest of the Congregation hath not any warrant to giue consent or to deale in it which else-where you require For when the Church that Christ committed it vnto haue once determined the matter what haue those to doe further that were not meant nor thought of by him And if hee that tels the Eldershippe any thing telles it to the Church what neede any moe bee acquainted with that belonges not to them For if they be of the Church they knowe it already Et qui certus est amplius non debet certiorari if they be not then let them pacifie themselues but if the whole Congregation be theremeant then hath not the Eldershippe therein authoritie giuen by that place And if the Church be the Eldershippe then the one is the other idem numero conuertuntur so that he that is not of the Eldership is none of the Church To auoide these absurdities they will say the Eldershippe is called the Church because it hath herein the authoritie of the Church This is strange Shall they bee the Church it selfe that haue herein the Churches authoritie then he is a king that in some thing hath the kings authoritie Well let it goe Those that with vs doe excommunicate haue the Churches authoritie also and let them shewe a reason out of the worde of God why the Church may not giue her authoritie to one aswell as to many If this bee one of your essentiall pointes that the Church cannot giue it to one for shame finde some Scripture for it If you say that the Church being a collectiue must needes bee more then one true but yet one or a fewe may haue the authoritie of many committed to them as one man may bee Syndic or Legate for a whole common weale If it cannot bee represented but by a number then two may serue else shewe by howe many and both of these by Scripture or confesse your gouernement not to be grounded on Scripture And when such authoritie is giuen to many shew that any thing may bee done except euery of them agree for if you say as you practise that the most voyces ouercome the fewer shewe Scripture for that and howe the odde voyce that makes the greater number hath such a power as to make that to bee the determination of the Church which otherwise were not so And if in such case one odde voice perhaps of a very odde fellowe may haue such force why may not a Byshops voyce bee of as great force in this matter where the Church committes it to him That by this place the power generall of excommunication is not established may thus appeare For if this be the very warrant and cōmission that it hath then may none excōmunication proceede in any other matter then vpon priuate offences originally and onely by the same degrees that there bee propounded otherwise the commission were violated That an Eldershippe as is fancied shoulde haue that power here giuen to them cannot be entended for if Christ had ordeyned them afore this time then their authorities whatsoeuer were no doubt giuen withall vnto them but wee reade no such thing The pollicie of the Iewish Synagogue had still his continuance and Christ had not yet setled the Church which hee was in gathering That by these wordes at this time it was erected it coulde not be for neither were the officers afore ordeyned of which it consisteth viz. of Elderly doctor and Pastor vndoctorly and vnpastorally Elder and of deacons nor yet were they here ordeyned For the Apostles could neuer out of this single worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Church haue picked this great varietie and distinction of officers and their authoritie which they had neuer heard of afore But Christ speaketh hereof to them as of a thing knowen whereunto in like case resort might bee had But if it were here appointed consisting of Christ and his Apostles then was Christes headshippe of the Church taken from him and hee ranged with his Apostles as his collegues in the Eldershippe Then also must they either say that Christ was not perpetuall president in such eldership but as it fell to his lotte or choise as they now practise in Synodes and conference albeit the Pastor in their Elderships be the President perpetuall or they must haue a perpetuall president in all their Synodicall assemblies to be conformable to this being the best and first It will also hereof followe if your Elders mind to be successors of the Apostles in an eldership here they must be ministers of the worde and Sacraments as the Apostles and all the first Elders were Then also cannot your Eldership haue any other parts of authoritie then Christ at this their institution here bestowed vpon them as namely you must abandon ordinations depositions and other gouernment Lastly if he ment to erect an office or authoritie that afore was not the wordes would haue bene praeceptiue and dispositiue for such purpose not imperatiue commaunding onely a course to be holden before such a tribunall as was not afore erected or heard of for it woulde thus or in some like forme haue beene conceiued let such and such Church gouernours bee erected to whome you may alwayes tell it If therefore to auoyde these inconueniences it wil be said that he made allusion to the Iewish Sanhedrim or College of 72. in vse with them and wel knowen to them with insinuation that as the Iewes had so hee would haue established in his Church which should after be gathered of the Iewes and Gentiles Besides that it is likely the name of Sanhedrim would haue
as they chuse their Presidents And we do not hold Caluin or any humane authoritie affirmatiue and therefore we rather defend it was for order Superioritie both of dignitie office Eusebius whom Caluin citeth to this purpose maketh Iames the sonne of Alpheus Byshop of Ierusalem and Byshop of the Apostles because the Synode of the twelue Disciples and 72. Euangelists continued from Christ his ascencion to the dispersion of the Apostles It must needes be amongst the Apostles and other Pastorall Elders not onely a gouernment for continuance of order but also preeminence in the action Act. 15.19 For there the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I iudge or determine is vsed whereupon after much disputation all rested and the matter was concluded for it is no preiudice to the equalitie of the Apostleship or ministerie a modest orderly and temperate authoritie This is worth the whole It was of order say they not of Superioritie as the speaker in Parliament as if all Superioritie were opposite to good order but as neere as they can they will borrow from the high Court of Parliament Belike they meane one day to keepe a Court of it Retortion The Speaker doeth not gather the voyces neither hath voice but when all the house is euen The L. Chanceller in the vpper house asketh the Clarke gathereth but the L. Chanceller remaineth the propounder so long as he is Chanceller And this their temporarie Presidencie is for order say they nay it is for disorder ordo est rationis Aristotle in his physicks To choose one this day another to morow and the third day choose a neewe is a tumultuous order Note this by the way Their gouernour or president of order in euery meeting is to propound matters to gather voyces viua voce or by scrutinie Ergo some authoritie is left vnto him for he is to propounde Ergo it is in his choyse to gather or scatter to silence or propound Ethicorum 3. eadem quae agere possumus non agere which is as much in valewe as a Warden amongst his schollers with a negatiue voyce which is a great preeminence and Superioritie The 6. Obiection Paul was Superiour to Timothie and Titus Demonstrator The Answere Paul and they had diuerse offices Paul an Apostle and they Euangelists ouer others Let him shewe me a reason Remonstrance with reply An Apostle being Superiour to an Euangelist and he to a Pastor c. why a Byshop may not be Superiour to a Pastor succeeding the Apostles for if vos autem non sic doe take away all Superioritie then an Apostle and euery Pastor is euery way equal a Pastor but equal with their lay Elder and Deacon As for Paul Doctor Gentium a Doctor of the Gentiles he was their Superiour this is beyond all question As for Titus and Timothie if as you say they were Superiors as Euangelists Ergo euery way Superior for Ecclesiasticall order ouer ordinarie Ministers It is an Absurditie to say Absurditie of the Demonstrator hee was Superior as an Euangelist Ergo not Superior as a Byshop sith hee that desireth a Byshopricke praeclarum opus desiderat desireth a good worke Paul sayth that Timothie worketh the worke of the Lord euen as he 1. Cor. 16. But hence followeth not that he was an Apostle euen as Paul was no more then hereof that hee was an Euangelist Or as well to make the holy Ghost say Episcopatum eius accipiat alter Let another take the Byshopricke of Iudas but let no man take the Apostleship of Iudas The fallacie of this is the caption adidem Our positiue learning is better then your negatiue learning they were Euangelists in some maner signification as Preachers but no such Euangelists as a seuerall office Ephes 4. as you imagine of them for by their owne authoritie they did not plant Churches but by commission and teaching of Saint Paul The one Timothie being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Prelate of the Ephesians 1. Thes 5.12 1. Tim. 3.14 Ephesus Metropoliticall citie of Asia where after his abode which Saint Paul requested of him for to stay no where you can finde Saint Paul afterward to sende for him especially from the date of writing the Epistle The other Titus being Archbyshop of Crete whether in that time or after times Crete were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Homer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Iliad reporteth hauing three or an hundreth cities be it for ordeining or gouerning the one the other had Superioritie of all the Pastors there Iustin Martir one of the next writers to the Apostles calleth Timothie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gouernour or Prelate of the Church of Ephesus which he could not call him if hee had bin chosen for one onely meeting or action This worde in Plato 7. Epist. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is Prefect of a city therefore al his Superioritie was not so much of order as of greatnes in authoritie and the Church from time to time hath admitted the title of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ordeined by imposition of hands first or chiefe Byshop not so much for time as dignitie for he had to denounce and commaund 1. Tim. 1.4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is with power denounce and commaunde with many other wordes in that Epistle importing his Iudiciall authoritie and Superiour dignitie The 3. Proposition of the Demonstrator None may be ordeined to an office in the Church vntill the place be voyde Demonstrator The 1. Demonstration As was the twelfth place for Matthias so is a certaine place for euery Church officer But Matthias was not ordeined to the place til Iudas had made it voyde by hanging himselfe Ergo none is to bee ordeined before the place bee voyde Adde vnto this conclusion which you ought to do Remonstrance by hanging himselfe or by lot Or when an Apostleship falleth or when euery twelfth place is voyde by such maner of Resignation Absurditie of the Demonstrator as hanging himselfe or when Matthias commeth againe to bee chosen in Iudas place This Argument leapeth from one praedicament to another from the praedicament agere to vbi He ordeined him to an office Ergo to a place and a certaine place as if the Apostles were not to preach 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in all the world The Maior proposition is false For Christ appointed the number of twelue such as had bin conuersant with him so that there might of the Apostles be no lesse or more albeit he had 72. Disciples besides that had bin instructed by him which were Euāgelists but there is no set number of ordinarie Ministers prescribed to any nation which it may not come short of nor exceede In one Church of Antioche Ast. 13. was there not sundry both Prophets and Doctors there named yet no stinted number for it is there noted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as happely the Church then stood and it stoode very flourishing
taketh vpon him to preach is a preacher nay according to the first Demonstration and others of this chapter and his interpretation of it none be The hauing a Reader debarreth not from seeking to a Preacher and therefore it is better to haue readers then none at all As for parrat Preachers it is better to haue a discreete Reader then one of them who are bolde and hambolde to speake but speake not to the purpose or else speake schismatically and therefore are turned out The 3. Obiection of the Demonstrator It is impossible to haue preachers euery where Demonstration ergo readers Answere of the Demonstrator This is a disgrace to say it is impossible and yet to say all is well and to violate the Lordes decree He that is challenged so to say by you Remonstrance with reply saith it is not possible as the state is nowe to haue such supplie in euery free chappell or place of seruice of a preacher there is some difficultie in compassing of this But to depraue other mens word is your speciall grace as for breaking Gods decree you must better proue it then you haue or else neuer say that the parte of a ministers dutie to reade in the Church to be thus vnlawfull In the feare of God be it spoken we will thanke God for our freedome both to reade Gods word and preach and pray for her Maiesties gratious continuance for so much quantitie of dominion no such plenteous preaching is in all the world as in her Maiesties dominion God increase the number of learned and well aduised preachers The 4. Obiection of the Demonstrator It were vncharitablenes to turne bare Readers out Demonstration for they their wiues and children should begge Answere of the Demonstrator Better 3. or 4. begge then damnation of 1000. Yea it were iniustice and impietie to turne them away Remonstrance with replie because they cannot preach for they can exhort and teache and minister the sacraments no such feare of damnation of a 1000. But it is your preiudice and condemnation to auouch that by their ministerie God cannot saue soules I doubt not but much better by sundrie mens labours being but simple in learning then by the most of that crue their vaine verball babling which with griefe of heart I knowe the most of your humour to vse in sermons for set aside a fewe resonant ill applied wordes culled together to astonish the simple a litle for that time what order what learning or any thing else tending to the building of the inward man in spirituall knowledge is to be founde in most of their speakings or exercises So that I see no difference betwixt such vnlearned talkers and the ignorant ministers whome with great disdaine they terme neuer better then Dumbe dogges but that these because they cannot preach will not and therefore are lesse impudent the other in truth cannot barke but yet will be bolde to be balling though it be but against the Moone or with running riot How much different is S. Hieroms iudgement from yours he saith thus It is a fault in some Bishops Hierom. 〈…〉 19. 〈…〉 that chuse not into the Clergie those who be the best but who talke the best non meliores sed argutiores and thinke simple and harmelesse men to be vnliable for the ministerie The 2. Assertion of the Demonstrator That the Church ought not to be gouerned by Commissaries Officials Demonstration and Chancellors The 1. Demonstration They who are no elders ought not to haue any thing to doe in the gouernment of the Church 1. Tim. 5.17 Those Chancellors Commissaries Officials are no elders whether you take elder for a minister or assistant ergo To the Maior The Maior proposition is intricated both with schisme vntruth Remonstrance and treason For the Queenes Maiestie is no elder no minister no priest and yet hath and ought to haue the gouernment of the Church whereas such elders as you meane haue nothing at all to doe in the Church either by precept or president The conuersion is false which the Demonstrator would haue gathered Elders gouerne well ergo they that are no Elders doe not gouerne others may gouerne in the actions of the Church who are no pastorall elders which is the answere to your Minor For Chancellors Commissaries Officials they are assistant to the pastorall elders or doe gouerne in foro litigioso and yet many of them also pastorall elders and ministers It is a loude lie to say none of them are ministers Well the griefe is that euery minister may not gouerne and rule without checke of all superiors not onely bishops or their substitutes but any other This is a wise Demonstration which is a paralogisme consisting all of negatiues and is like to this viz. No bishoply authoritie is lawfull none eldership is a bishoply authoritie ergo none eldership is lawfull The 2. Demonstration They who must gouerne the Church Demonstra must haue a warrant for so doing from Christ But the Chancellors c. haue no warrant from Christ ergo The Maior is false if you meane immediately from Christ Remonstr or especially and positiuely warranted otherwise then as all superiour power is of God It is sufficient to be warranted from the Christian Magistrate those who occupie the place of the Apostles else a Maior Sherife and Constable Iustice of peace and maister of an Hospitall should haue an vnlawfull authoritie For a man may no more deale without lawfull warrant in the Common-wealth then he may doe in the externall gouernment of the Church To the Minor Their warrant is out of the worde of God He that gouerneth in diligence Rom. 12. The bishops and others make them partakers of their authoritie by way of delegation and substitution which in Church and Common-wealth is both lawfull for not onely by the equitie but by examples of Scriptures and practise of the Primitiue Church substitution may be approoued lawfull The 3. Demonstration They whose names Demonstration offices and practise be deriued from Antichrist may not gouerne the Church of Christ for who will suffer his wife to be gouerned by the maister of a Brothell house but so are the names c. of our Chancellors because they are grounded in the filthie dunghill of the Canon lawe ergo To the Maior The Maior is of infinite distance from the Minor Remonstrance I answere to the Minor The name of Chancellor is not founde in all the Canon Lawe in that sence it is vsed but in the Ciuill Lawe of the Romanes is vsed for any chiefe assistant sitting intra eosdem tribunalis cancellos cum Magistratu as I haue learned of those who be skilfull and is not repugnant vnto but may be said to be deriued out of Gods lawe if the deriuation be drawne à cancellis to keepe vnbrideled or inordinate men intra cancellos within their boundes So the name of Commissaries by reason of commission or matter of
is simply forbidden to all Christians both in ciuill ecclesiastical gouernment Now to apply these more neerely by the authoritie the bishops haue in this realme a matter so impugned by these men It cannot be resembled vnto oeconomicall albeit in some sence a bishop is called the father of those in his charge and the husband of that church whereof he is bishop that for two causes First in that his authoritie is not contained in the straites of one familie but reacheth ouer many seuerall families and congregations of people Another for that the bishops authoritie is tied by lawes not only what not to do but he is appointed also what to doe whereas oeconomicall authoritie hath no publike lawes positiue commaunding a man howe to gouerne his familie but onely negatiue what they may not doe in that gouernment as not to wound nor kill wife childe nor seruant c. As for supreme authoritie whether Ciuill or Ecclesiasticall absolute or limited our bishops neither haue nor claime It is that which they cōdemne in the Pope by this place as well for that as successor of the Apostles he claimeth both swordes all earthly kingdomes to be his to dispose sinon actu saltem habitu as Bellarmin distinguisheth as for that in matters Ecclesiasticall he claimeth and vsurpeth not onely Seigneuriall but euen tyrannicall authoritie For he saith he may iudge all and be iudged by none may carry millions of soules to hell and none may say to him Domine curita facis Sir why doe you so may command Angels to carry and recarry soules at his pleasure may pardon sinnes past to come for so long or short a time as him listeth and in matters of Ecclesiastical liuings nay in all causes may doe what he list and therefore is iustly condemned by this place as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 one exercising a Lordly absolute and tyrannous authoritie There resteth then vnto bishops of this Realme none other but subordinate or delegated authoritie which they haue partly from God partly from the soueraigne christian Magistrate From God they haue either first to plant or else to gouerne and direct Churches already planted to ordeine ministers and deacons and likewise the vse of the keies either by loosing the penitent according to Gods worde or binding the impenitent which last is done by admonition reprehension suspension excōmunication and by anathematisme The three first of which censures are with vs euen in practise common to all ministers of the word so farre as suspension is taken for debarring from the sacramēt of the supper The last two though by all practise of antiquitie in purer times they were principally and especially attributed to bishops yet not so but that other ministers of the worde vnto which the keies are annexed may not vnlawfully herein concurre with them if the lawes of the Church for weightie causes doe not otherwise dispose which they haue done here in England as I take it by reason of the sundrie ciuill effects which excommunication and anathematisme by lawe doe worke and are such as without great inconuenience and confusion cannot be permitted to euery minister in his cure that haue but slender skil no direction of lawe in this behalfe none autentique seales to certifie of record nor temporalities to be seised for not performance of the Queenes writtes that lie in such cases as de cautione admittenda de excommunicato deliberando c. And these former be the pointes wherein bishops authoritie is from God and not of man but now from the soueraigne Prince by the mediating of lawes bishops haue set downe vnto them the places where the compasse of territorie howe farre the manner howe with other circumstances of executing both the former authorities and also their iurisdiction Likewise they haue assistance of their iurisdiction sundrie waies from the Prince and lawes for the sounder execution thereof and better bridling of offenders as to burne an Heretike to imprison a person obstinately remaining excommunicate aboue 40. daies with such like Lastly they haue the heads and matters wherein their iurisdiction is occupied by and from the Christian Magistrates authoritie in whome as supreme Gouernour all iurisdiction within her dominions aswell Ecclesiasticall as Ciuill by Gods and mans lawe is inuested Such matters in this Church of England so attributed to bishops are causes of titles of benefices matters of maintenance for Ministers vpholding of Churches and Churchyardes of matrimoniall contracts and diuorces testamentarie diffamatorie where there is breach of charitie and none action lieth thereupon at the Common lawe or lastly punishing of sundrie crimes termed Ecclesiasticall being such as are not at all punishable at the Common law or els are left by lawe to be punished by either authoritie And in this respect may this part of bishoply function not vntruely be saide to be deriued from the supreme Christian Magistrates authoritie and supremacie which they haue vnder God By which may appeare both the vndutifulnes of Popish Bishops and of the factious Consistorials the first whereof deriueth their iurisdictions Ecclesiasticall within all Christian kingdomes from the Pope and the other will needes deriue theirs immediately from God and that in larger manner and in moe matters then bishops in England may any way exercise for they of the faction attribute therein no more vnto soueraigne Princes but to be gouerned in that behalfe by them and to defende the exercise thereof by their temporall sworde whereas our bishops cannot make any newe Ecclesiasticall decrees without the Princes authoritie both precedent and subsequent and in the whole course of their function are tied strictly and precisely to obseruation of due course of lawe which if either negligently or wilfully they shall violate it is remediable by appellation the last resorte wherein is to the Soueraigne Prince her selfe who heareth and finally determineth it by her Iudges delegated So that by this discourse it plainely appeareth that our Bishops neyther clayme nor yet exercise any ciuill authoritie at all as Bishops that their authoritie Ecclesiasticall is but subordinate vnder God and the Prince moderated exactly both positiuely and priuatiuely by good lawes deriued for the moste parte from the Prince and reformable by her Not supreme not absolute not tyrannicall not Seigneuriall nor Lordely according to the Rulers luste And therefore no way touched or meant much lesse by these places condemned as the Demonstrators Assumption more boldely then eyther skillfully or truely importeth But out of these groundes thus wee reason and bende the nose of the Cannon against themselues If the bishops authoritie be condemned by these two places as they would inferre then is all greater and more absolute authoritie exercised by persons Ecclesiasticall much more to be condemned But your selues doe claime and exercise greater and more absolute authoritie then the bishops namely to haue your Consistoriall iurisdiction not deriued from the Princes authoritie but supreme vnder God and that in all
such other sophistications to plaister vp your assertions with vntrueth videlicet as these and such like As when you argue from your Puritane Idaea of gouernment out of the 14. Rom. All lawfull things are of faith all lawfull things of faith are warranted by the worde Ergo all lawfull things are warranted by the worde and consequently euery lawfull action in gouernment of the Church Where the conclusion is vniuersall in the third figure and Medius terminus videlicet lawfull things is in the conclusion contrarie to all rule of reasoning and yet the Demonstrator misseth of S. Pauls wordes which are Quicquid non ex fide peccatum est All that is not of faith is sinne Or where as you argue Hypotheticallie out of the 4. Ephes If all needfull gifts be appropriate to other ministeries then is the Archbishops ministerie vnlawfull but they are Ergo the Archbishops vnlawfull And T. C. before you argueth Categorically after this sort Those functions onely are sufficient for the Church which haue gifts needfull but all those Ephes 4. and Cor. 1.12 haue gifts needfull Ergo they are onely sufficient Which is as good a conclusion as if one of you did argue thus Those things onely are sufficient to saluation which are contained in the Scripture But all those things in the Aue Marie are contained in the Scriptures Ergo those things onely in the Aue Marie are sufficient to saluation Or as cunningly after this sort Those onely are men which are endued with reason But all the Costerdmongers in London are endued with reason Ergo the Costerdmongers in London are the onely men Or where you goe about to prooue that none is ordinable to the ministerie vnlesse he haue a benefice As was the 12. place for Mathias so is a certaine place for euery church officer But Mathias was not ordained till Iudas had made it voyd by hanging himselfe Ergo none is to be ordained before the place be voyd Adde vnto this by such maner of Resignation as hanging of himself Or when another Apostleship falleth voide Or when euery 12. place is voyd Or when Mathias commeth againe to be chosen into Iudas place The Argument leapeth from one predicament to another from the predicament Agere to Vbi They ordained him to an office Ergo to a place and a certaine place as if the Apostles were not to preach 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in all the world Or when you will euince indefatigable residence of the Minister on the place out of the 1. Samuel 9. Elie the priest sate vpon a stoole by one of the postes of the Temple Ergo a Minister must be resident and belike must also as he did sit downe vpon a stoole Or this A Shepeheard must feede a Minister is a Shepeheard Ergo he must corporally and continually reside without naturall or legall dispensation for his absence As if you had sayd a Minister to be a Shepeheard otherwise then Metaphoricallie for a king also is a shepeheard but in a Metaphor who may law fully depute others to gouerne and to feede Or against non Residence out of the 1. Thes 1.17 v. Satan hindered mee Satan is the cause of non Residence Ergo vnlawfull where the Demonstrator maketh S. Paul to write good diuinitie Satan hindred me that is after the Demonstrators skill Satan caused me to doe an vngodly and vnlawfull thing whereas S. Paul his meaning is Satan raised persecution against me Or as fitly and perfectly after this sort for your popular elections and choise of ministers from the 8. Num. 9. v. The children of Israel put their handes vpon the heads of the Leuites The Leuites put their hands vpon the heads of bullocks Ergo the people must lay their hands on the heads of the Ministers Then adde vnto this The Ministers must lay their hands on the heads of bullocks T. C. taught you to reason thus from the ceremonie to the Gospell Et vitulo tu dignus hic Or when it pleaseth you to establish the presbyterie you interprete roundly Dic ecclesiae tell the Church that is the Eldership or Aldermanship of the Church yea and goe farther for the authoritie of this venerable Eldership out of the 49. Esay Kings and Queenes shall worship thee with their face towards the earth and shall licke vp the dust of thy feete c. Ergo great homage and honour shall be done to the Eldership Or in that place where you ouerthrow all standing superioritie of Ministers ouer Ministers you demonstrate after this fashion A bishop is called Episcopus An ordinarie Minister is called Episcopus Ergo all one Or a Bishop and an ordinarie Minister must haue one qualitie Ergo a parish Bishop and a diocoesan Bishop are all one thing Or all Bishops are equall in commission of the Ministerie Ergo equal in whatsoeuer commission of authoritie Or In the beginning for a while a Bishop and a priest or Minister were all one Ergo they must continue all one For in the Apostles time was the change and that same I am of Paul I am of Cephas was the occasion of the change and finally the decree of all the world at least as S. Hierome thinketh was the approbation of the change This were strange reasoning In the beginning Kings and priests were all one ergo they must continne all one In the beginning such was the simplicitie c. Great lords sonnes as Iacob c. kept their fathers sheepe ergo noble mens children mus◠keepe their fathers sheepe In the beginning they baptized in Riuers ergo men must carie their children downe to be christened in Riuers Or in another where you demonstrate agaynst the superioritie of Archbishops If the Pope be odious the Archbishop is odious also as who would say If the vnmeasurable and illimitable power be vnlawfull Ergo a modest and limited superioritie by law is vnlawfull also Finiti ad Infinitum nulla est proportio Or The Archbishops office and name is vnknowen to vs Puritanes Ergo vnknowen and vnheard of in the Church You shall well know that both the name and equitie of the name and thing is knowen and allowed of in Gods Church Or where it pleaseth you to say Caluin saieth there were gouernours of order not of superioritie Ergo this is true as if it were truly sayd all gouernment of superioritie is gouernment of disorder and that these were opposite Or in the demonstration To prooue Doctor and Pastor to be distinguished you dispute cunningly thus Male and female are distinct in sexe or kind Gal. 3. Ergo Doctor and Pastor must be distinct why not then in sex or kind with many other like Paralogismes as in your seuerall Chapters shal be vnfolded the whole Demonstration being nothing els but a bundle of absurdities Howbeit the booke thereof is a thing so preciously esteemed by the author himself so magnified by his folowers as worthy to be set vpon the highest pinacle of this Church new reformed for which cause hee giueth
bad harper harpeth alwayes on one string My answere is as vnto the 7. 8. Demonstrations 1. Cap. Or I answere with concession because it is nothing to the question and therefore your fight is with no body but with the foolish feare of your owne shadowe Or I answere by distinction thus Direct warrantie is either immediate from the voyce of God or which is mediate by direct consequencie gathered out of the worde of God Such is any calling in the Church of England by what name soeuer it be named deducible from the worde of God The 3. Demonstration If Corah Dathan and Abyram were punished hauing no warrant of that they tooke in hand Demonstration then is euery calling generally warranted out of the worde and particularly layde vpon the parties But the first is true Ergo the second Nomb. 16. This is well concluded Your consequence of the Maior no way followeth Remonstrance except the want of warrantize had bene the only cause of their punishment You confesse a trueth before you are aware in the Minor your owne feters shall serue for your owne feete If Corah Dathan and Abyram were swallowed vp aliue for insurrection against Moses and Aaron the high Priest Retortion for ambitious seeking to be all high Priestes not contented with the ministerie of the Tabernacle as inferiour Leuites and for scismatical assertion Is not the whole Congregation holy Hij omnes sunt sancti are not all these holy that is sanctified to the Lord Num. 16.3 both intruding into the office and obtruding to the people the office of the high Priest at that time Must not the scismatikes of our time whose contradiction is the same perish also in the same contradiction Pares culpa pares paena like fault like punishment without the mercie of God But the Antecedent is true Ergo the consequent is together true For these doe the very same against those who are set ouer them in the Lorde Plus satis arrogatis vobis Inter eos est Iehoua quare ergo effertis vos super Congregationem Iehouae You take too much vpon you amongst them is the Lord Is not all the Congregation holy Why doe you aduance your selues aboue the Congregation of the Lorde Are not all holy all Ministers alike and ministeries Is not the laytie a holy presbyterie to the Lord Are not the Congregation interessed in the gouernment of the Church Nemo de vobis vnus excellat Omnem exuperantiam virtutis oderunt Tusc quest lib. 5. Euery of vs is as good as other These be as the voyces of old scismatikes were The 4. Demonstration That which giueth cōfort in trouble must haue a warrāt out of Gods word Demonstration But euery lawfull calling doeth so Ergo. The Argument lyeth at Cowards warde Remonstrance We denie not but that all lawful callings haue warrant of Gods worde but not particularly or totidem verbis For where findeth he a Master of an Hospitall a Printer a Cartwright a Salte-peter man a shirte-maker a gunne-maker an Attorney in all Scripture Ante diem clauso componet vesper Olimpo From morning vnto night Stans pede in vno you may demonstrate thus The 5. Demonstration That which helpeth forwarde in godlinesse Demonstration must haue a warrant out of Gods worde But euery lawfull calling helpeth forward in godlines Ergo. These and such other like Arguments Remonstrance are like to the Islands in Archipelago 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lying in the middle way to be surprised of any man or as the prouince of Iewry and Syria where of Tullie saith Iudaei et Syri ad seruitutem nati De prouin consul bound to serue all turnes and pay tribute vnto all who will make them tributarie Wastewordes of the Demonstrator They confesse all this to bee true Demonstration but denie the Archbyshop and LL. B B. c. to be distinct Ministers which we holde to be distinguished and by sixe Demonstrations doe prooue it first thus The 1. Demonstration Those things which haue diuerse efficient causes Demonstration are diuerse Our L L. B B. and the Ministers of the worde haue diuerse efficient causes the one the ordinance of God the other of humane policie Ergo. Wee holde their ministerie of the worde to be as others Remonstrance and there in equall but for order and policie of the Church a Superioritie in gouernement censures and ordinations in which respect they are B B. So much Beza and Caluin also confesse in effect speaking of Patriarkes Archbyshops and Byshops in the Primatiue Church To the Maior This must be true in naturall or in artificiall and ciuill things or true in neither For some things haue diuerse efficients and are the same things other are diuerse thinges and haue the same efficient Ergo. It is true in neither The braine of an Anabaptist and the braine of an asse haue one efficient and yet are diuerse things Sol et homo generant hominem Sol et asinus generant asinum vnlesse you make an Anabaptist the foale of an asse The soule of Nouatus and the soule of T.C. haue but one creator and yet are indiuiduated and diuers things vnlesse you holde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 transmigration into T.C. of Nouatus soule Againe if wee might beleeue your selues Moses made the Sanedrim of olde or authorised it Christ in your eldership made or authorised the Sanedrim of the new according to your selues These are diuerse efficients yet but one thing The egge of this byrds laying and of another byrds hatching hath diuers efficients but yet is one chicke Diuersities of efficient church wrights and reformers of the state belike must needes breede diuersitie of reformation of the state and diuerse communion bookes as fell out within two yeeres experience thrise diuersely your Presbyteries your Classies and your Synodes seuerally may make or ordeine ministers and these be diuerse assemblies ergo their ministeries be diuers that so diuersly be ordeined and called of them The Minor cannot passe it is passing naught viz. our BB. and the ministers haue diuerse efficients as themselues doe confesse Who euer of vs did confesse the BB. to be a mere humane constitution Therefore let this lie As for the worde and title of Lorde in which limitation they thinke a great aduantage lurketh it is but per accidens as they haue Baronries If it were otherwise why not titles of honour due to them if honour bee due The efficient of BB. in respect they are ministers is God as BB. properlie is also God Omnis potestas a Deo For admit all their authoritie or names were not specifically expressed shall not their power therefore be of God els where be the foure Syndicts of Geneuaes authoritie For there is no such office named particularly in scripture See the 304. page of the defence of the answere to the admonition whose plaine distinction is That great is the oddes to be ordeyned of
your cures when you are at Synodes at your Classies at Termes at Parliamentes in visiting your friendes in halfe a dozen shires The 3. Demonstration That which is from Antichrist is vnlawfull Demonstration To haue more then one is from Antichrist Ergo vnlawfull I may reason also thus euen with as great probabilitie To follow the example of S. Paul is to follow Christ Remonstrance To haue more charges to looke vnto then one is to follow S. Paul cura omnium ecclesiarum incumbit mihi I beare a care of all Churches Ergo to haue more charges then one is to folow Christ Ergo it is not simpliciter euil to haue more charges then one For none can follow two contrary masters Christ Antichrist neither is it absolutely to haue more charges then one deriued from Antichrist and therefore your Minor is false The 4. Demonstration That which declareth a minister to be more desirous of the fleece then to profit the flocke that is vnlawful But moe charges then one is so Ergo. Demonstration This fallacie is non causa pro causa Remonstrance To haue more charges then one proceedeth not from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 couetise of more but from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sufficiencie or competencie of liuing and from priuiledge fauour of the law For they that preach the Gospell must liue of the Gospel as also the Geneua note vpon these words 1. Timoth. 5.17 Qui benè praesunt presbyteri duplici honore digni sunt that is they must haue sufficiēt maintenance But that expositiō is not the only meaning of the text for double honour is something more then sufficient maintenance the proportion is double 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Now double is more then sufficient and honor presupposeth maintenance or els it wil be very single honor The 5. Demonstration He may not haue more charges Demonstrator vnlesse he be willing to be quartered that euery charge may haue a peece The Demonstrator is at great coste and charges to bestowe this argument Remonstrance but I take it that if euery quarter of the Citie had a quarter of him that made this Demonstration and many like to this whatsoeuer came to the H. mans part he could not boast of the least fraction vna quarta one fourth part of an honest man The 6. Demonstration or Allegation Hooper vpon the 8. commandement reckoneth them among theeues and their actions theeuerie Demonstration by that commandement His wordes are 76. pag. super 8. com Such as liue of spirituallty thes Remonstrance c. who do neglect their dutie in teaching office commit sacriledge he speaketh against vnable men or those who haue more then competency with vndesert The 2. Assertion of the Demonstrator One minister may not haue soueraigne authoritie and Lordship ouer his fellowe ministers Demonstration The Demonstrator cannot distinguish betweene soueraigntie dominion Remonstrance or entier Lordship which is one thing and superioritie or authoritie ouer others which are different things both in Church and Common-wealth The 1. Demonstration They that haue their commission indifferently giuen them without difference are equall Demonstration and not one aboue another But such is the commission of all Ministers 28. Matth. 19.20 ergo equall not one aboue another To the Maior Although par in parem non habet imperium Remonstrance touching the commission yet in other respects in comparably they may be superior one vnto another as experience daily teacheth If you were in a commission of peace c. with my Lorde Treasurer would you be his equall therefore and as good as he To the Minor There are two commissions included in 28. Matth. One as they were Apostles chiefe builders and planters of Churches in which respect they had also gouerment authoritie ouer them and such they also gaue to bishops of places as Timothie and Titus whome they so ordeined Another in that they are also Pastors and herein euery minister is their successor as bishops only in the other respect The one bringeth equalitie in the essence for the exercise of the ministerie the other an inequalitie of authoritie rule that are exercised in the Church and must be for gouernment and order An instance is the very example of the Apostles whereof some were chief pillars chiefe Apostles Iames a standing superior amongst the Apostles at Ierusalem Act. 15. 2. Cor. 12. Bishops and ministers are for their ministerie equal but for order policie of the Church in gouernment vnequal This is both Caluins and Bezaes answer The 2. Demonstration That which Christ hath directly forbidden is for euer vnlawfull Demonstration But Christ hath directly forbidden this dominion of one minister ouer an other Matth. 20.25 Luc. 22.25 Ergo To the Maior This is directly auerred for that is directly forbidden Remonstrance which by one of the 10. commandements or by some new commandement or speciall forbode is forbidden not that alwaies which in the letter of the word seemeth forbidden Els were it not lawful to sweare at al nor to cal any mā your father on earth nor to preach to the Gentiles Christ forbiddeth arrogant dominion or domination not all authoritie Absolute tyrannicall dominiō is forbidden among all christiās Aristot in his politikes maketh 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the dominion of Barbarians To your places the answer is Our Sauiour destroyeth not there either his owne primacie or the superioritie of the Apostles ouer other callings ecclesiasticall inferiour but rather establisheth it attempering them neuertheles to humilitie He that is great or will be great amongst you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Let him be your seruant or as Luke 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he that is greatest let him be as punie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the chiefest as he that serueth he doth not deuest himselfe of lawful superioritie but willeth them after his owne example to be inuested with humilitie for he himselfe did not degrade himselfe from his supremacie when by washing of their feete he serued them But because this is a matter that they do no lesse insist vpō and applaud vnto themselues in then the papists doe in their Hoc est corpus meum I wil craue leaue that I may a litle dilate hereupon further then that breuitie requireth which I first propounded to my self In those two places of S. Mathew S. Luke are to be cōsidered both what Christ reprooued also the general doctrine which by that occasion he deliuered If both the stories be to be vnderstood of one action then must we interprete that the contention of all the Apostles who of them should be the greatest mentioned by Luke had his original occasion of the request of Zebedees children at which the other Apostles tooke indignation as Mathew testifieth both they and all the Apostles dreamed of an earthly kingdom of Christes and therefore to sit at his right hand and at his
left and to be the greatest was an honour and ciuil preheminence and authoritie next vnto Christ in such his kingdome that they shot at He reprooued therefore this erroneous conceit and for thinking that ciuil iurisdiction should appertaine to them as they were apostles and drew them to another consideration of his heauenly kingdome If they desired that to be giuen them to haue the very condition state of their persons so aduanced with earthly honor authoritie ciuil in regard of some speciall affection which each of thē seuerally supposed Christ did beare vnto him in this respect was it their ambition the was reprooued But if ech of thē thoght such an honor due to himself by reasō of some excellēt qualities aboue others which he fansied to be in himself then was their arrogancie and want of humilitie withall rebuked And lastly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the brawle contention that all the apostles burst foorth into about this matter was by our Sauiour taxed and blamed Now the BB. in this church of England do not claime any ciuil iurisdiction or authoritie to be incident to their callings although if as citizens of the common weale subiects some such be imposed vpon them by the prince as they may not lawfully refuse so we know they may lawdablie vse it But if either erroneously any of them should thinke ciuil iurisdiction of or vnder earthly princes to belong vnto them as successors of the apostles or if they seeke after any authoritie whatsoeuer ambitiously arrogantly or contentiously such should iustly incurre our Sauiors censure and reproofe in this place In that by the law and customes of the land they haue the title of lordes this is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 simplie in it selfe in regard of their bishoprikes but by reason of the Baronries which are annexed of old vnto those dignities yet it is but a mere title of external honor as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the Gręcians Dominus with the Latins without any authoritie or iurisdiction annexed For there is neuer a lord in the land either of the ecclesiastical or ciuill state that hath any iote of authoritie or iurisdiction in him as he is a Baron Neuertheles the apostles and BB. their successors are not therfore without all rule superioritie for they are termed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ouerseers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gouernements or gouernors 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 men set ouer others 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rulers guides or directers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 feeders rulers which they cannot be except they haue some rule gouernment authoritie But this rule and authoritie is but ecclesiasticall whereas that which was affected by the apostles was ciuill which ecclesiastical authoritie whether it be wholy or in part condemned by that generall doctrine there deliuered by our Sauior doth now rest to be considered We are therfore in these words Vos autē non sic it shal not be so amongst you to note these two things viz. vnto whom such prohibition reacheth what rule it is which is there forbidden First it was not spoken to the apostles as they represented the whole Church as may appeare by the example the Christ propoundeth to thē of his own abasing of himself Neither was it forbiddē so to euerie one of them seuerallie as if it might haue bene permitted to them all together or to the greater part of them Quia nihil est in composito quod non est in simplicibus vel actu vel saltem habitudine If no one of thē might exercise such rule nor any part of it thē cannot they altogether haue it neither yet was the prohibition personall to them for then it would follow that albeit no one of them might haue authoritie ouer the rest yet their successours neuerthelesse whether more properly taken as bishops or generally as all ministers of the word might haue had such authoritie as is there forbidden which were absurd to imagine so that the prohibition reacheth to thē all to euery one of them to their successours also The whole difficultie therfore now resteth in this what kind of authoritie or rule either ecclesiastical or ciuil it is which vnder the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is forbidden And because there are many resemblāces between ecclesiastical ciuil authoritie the exact laying foorth of ciuil authoritie serueth aptly for the vnderstanding of the other I wil distribute ciuil or temperal authoritie into his parts differēces according to Arist other Politiciās Authoritie ciuil or temporal as we speake is either oeconomical such as is exercised within the limits of one family or Politicall ouer greater societies Oeconomicall is either 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the husband ouer the wife being the most moderate Or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the authoritie of the father ouer the children being more ample or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is of two sortes either of the housholder ouer such of his houshold as bee of condition free men and is lesse milde then the other two or of the Lord ouer his bondmen and villaines which is most seuere and absolute of all the others Politicall authoritie is either supreme that is Soueraigne or els subordinate and delegated Soueraigne or supreme is either Absolute called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is of two sortes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is Seigneuriall such as the good Emperors of Rome had and vsed who though they had all authoritie in thē without restraint so that their word was a law yet did they vse it according to the rules of ciuill honestie iustice or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tyrannous where not onely their will is a law but they also vse it contrary to all rules of ciuill honestie or iustice as the Empire of the Turkes Russes and other Barbarians or limited by certaine boundes of lawes That which is Soueraigne and yet limited is also of two kindes either wholy limited by lawes as is the authoritie of ordinarie chiefe magistrates in all free common weales as the dukes of Venice c. or restrained but in part as for the most part in all monarchies and kingdoms For albeit kings and such soueraigne Monarches are so tied to lawes as that they cannot dispose of their subiects liues or liuelihood and goods contrary to them yet are they at libertie to allowe or disallow lawes to be made to enhance or decrie the price or standerd of their coines to pardon offenders condemned by law and to make warre or peace truce or league Those which haue subordinate or delegated authoritie by the supreme magistrate they may not claime nor exercise more then is allowed vnto thē either by commissiō or by law Of all these authorities there is none as I take it simply vnlawfull but the tyrannicall gouernment which maketh self-wil a law And therefore this both here and also by other places
causes of doctrine or manners so farre as appertaineth to conscience to make lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall without her knowledge or consent to sitte and determine as your selues iudge best without any guiding of lawes to haue your sentences once giueÌ„ to stand in force though they be appealed from vntil they be in the last instaÌ„ce reuersed to excommunicate your Soueraigne consequently to discharge your selues for that time of all actuall obedience to call your Synodes and Classies without her writte and to haue the last appellation not to runne vnto the Prince but vnto a nationall Synode All which being true notes of soueraigntie in iurisdiction are at least 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lordly or Seigneuriall if not tyrannicall ergo that which is by you claimed and exercised is in deede by Christ there condemned Neither is it the bare ciuill title of Lorde which is giuen to bishops without any authoritie in that respect that will helpe you against vs here for the Scripture giueth not lawes to wordes but to the matters themselues Yours is Lordlines in deed when you both practise these things against her Maiesties royall supremacie and will haue her to throwe her scepter downe and to licke the dust of the feete of your Church viz. your Presbyterie an epitome or representation of euery seuerall Congregation or Church The 3. Demonstration They that may not be Lords ouer Gods people much lesse may be Lordes ouer the ministers Demonstration who are aboue the people but the first is true ergo the second To the Maior The Maior with a litle more helpe will make themselues Lordes Remonstrance For I doe assure you this no Bishop is Lord ouer the people but a Lorde in respect of his owne Baronrie It is more to be aboue the people in deede then to be a Lord vnto the people in phrase of speech or obsequious worde Nowe forsooth the Ministers are aboue the people that is their betters and in authoritie ouer them as this Maior doth import To the Minor Lordlines is one thing in malam partem Lordship is another S. Peter say you forbiddeth it 1. Pet. 5.3 on whome you say we father Lordlines to be Lordes of Gods heritage 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nay Peter writeth to the bishops or gouerning pastorall Elders such as himselfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I a fellowe elder not to tyrannize ouer the flocke but to be example to the faithfull The place of Peter and your collection maketh against your selues Retortion To say ministers may haue dominion ouer the people but Ministers may not haue dominion ouer ministers that is Ministers may rule and not be ruled The drift of the place is Ministers may not tyrannize or haue absolute commaund ouer the people or ouer one another I referre me to the answere made to the second demonstration of this matter The 4. Allegation or Demonstration It is ordeined that euery mans fault must be heard Demonstra Cypr. lib. 1. epi. 3. Remonstrance where the accusers and witnesses are ergo euery Minister had authoritie ouer his flocke The Illatiue is ergo euery bishop hath his limited proper iurisdiction Cyprian complained thus Paucis desperatis minor videtur esse authoritas episcoporum in Africa Certaine desperat companions thought worse of the bishops authoritie in Afrike then else where He founde fault with those that went to Rome out of the prouince not for going out of the Parish with the cause as you insinuate The 5. Allegation Bishops in all the worlde are equall to Parish ministers Demonstrat Luth. aduer Papat à Satana fundat Remonstrance some are of better giftes which giftes cause no Lordship Luther confuteth the supremacie of the bishop of Rome Papam non esse caput christianitatis Dominum mundi And that all bishops whether of Eugub or Rome Rheg or Constantinople Alexand Tauis are equall for the ministerie and heires of the See Apostolike The 6. Allegation The Ministers in the Apostolike Church none aboue other Demonstrat Muscu â—e com de verbi minist were subiect to no Head nor President That is no vniuersall Head otherwise Musculus vpon the 20. Remonstrance of Matth. alloweth Gouernors Presidents Rulers in the church The 7. Allegation A Bishop taking the honour from the Ministers Demonstra Idem super 2. Thess 8.2 was the first steppe to Papacie That is translated from them to erect a newe Ministerie Remonstrance or an illimitable authoritie in the Church which a bishoprike vnder the Gospell is not neither of the 7. steppes to Papacie The 8. Allegation Christ did forbid the Apostles primacie and dominion Demonstraet Confess Holuet That is absolute worldly auaritious ambiti ous dominion Remonstrance not all moderate gouernment and authoritie whatsoeuer Remonstrance The 9. Allegation Equall power is giuen to all Ministers sauing for order Demonstrat Confe Hel. c. 18. Order includeth superioritie and excludeth not dignitie Remonstr Nullus dominium in episcopos vsurpauit The 1. Obiection of the Demonstrator Christ 20. Demonstration Matth. 25. v. forbiddeth ambition and not dominion as Musculus doth expound Answere of the Demonstrator Caluine and others expounde it against superioritie but admitte that dominion is ambition because it causeth a man to aspire aboue his fellowe Ministers There is no witte in this misshapen answere Remonstrance with reply the obiection doth not permit so much vnto you dominion in the better part taken for rule is most contrarying to ambition It must be vniust dominion that causeth ambition as to conspire against his superior and to aspire to an higher place or seate your factious study may be called ambition The 2. Obiection of the Demonstrator The Greeke worde signifieth rule with oppression Demonstration which is forbidden Answere of the Demonstrator That is not so Luke 22.25 v. vseth the single verbe to rule the sonnes of Zebedee desired not to oppresse but to rule It is certaine Remonstrance with reply one place must expounde the other the tenor of the text expoundeth all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is one and consignificant termes which is absolutely tyrannously or ambitiously to gouerne and rule or violently to rule and ouerrule or else an absurd interpretation will follow of the word 19. Act. 16. v. 19. Act. 16. v. The man in whome the ill spirite was ranne vpon the vagabond Iewes and ouercame them and preuailed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 had violent dominion and maisterie ouer them or 1. Pet. 5.3 v. not as exercising a proude dominion ouer the Lordes heritage If the worde signifie not so S. Peter should forewarne them of that which yourselues say is no fault therefore it is as cleare as noone day the children of Zebedee and the Apostles were schooled for that same 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 contentious and ambitious desire of ruling and that ciuilly and absolutely The 3. Obiection of the Demonstrator
is not of your minde Remonstrance with reply Petrus nequaquam imprecatur eis mortem vt stultus Porphirius calumniatur sed Dei iudicium prophetico spiritu annunciat did not curse them by his word as Porphirie the foole would but in a prophetical spirit telleth them of Gods iudgement that was at hand First wee make no such obiection The Bishops haue no prisons they had lately custodias of clerkes conuict but they were not carceres vnto which they committed them for their offence done but were sent thither to be in safetie being persons found guiltie till by course of lawe as it then stood they should be deliuered Yet in one case they may as Bishops by a statute of H. 7. imprison at this day viz. a minister of his Diocesse conuicted of incontinencie he may commit to a priuate prison and enioyne him what straite diet or penance he thinketh fit I thinke so they and their Eldership might haue this authoritie they would let it passe the musters But that the hypocrisie of them may better appeare who here speake against Bishops prisons and ciuill punishments it would be asked of them what difference in the substance of the matter it is for an ecclesiastical person to commit a man to prison himselfe or for their Elderships to haue a bedle or Sergeant of the ciuil Magistrats attending on their Consistories euery Court day who both bringeth thither by force such as will not come being sent for and carieth such to prison as the Eldership iudge to deserue it as the vse of Geneua is or to procure gouernours of Bridewell to whippe one of their Church that abused the Minister in speaches sitting with his Eldership in Consistorie as not long since one of the French Church in London was vsed Belike it is lawfull for vs to crie Take him away crucifie him but we may not in any case kill or punish any man our selues Oh that were ciuill authoritie farre bee it from vs. The argument shoulde proceede thus Peter killed Ananias by ciuill extraordinarie iurisdiction and not by his worde onely although they cannot doe the like Neuerthelesse by ordinarie power committed to them they may doe the lesse and therefore imprison for disciplining the inordinate and correction of the badde where the magistrate imparteth to them such authoritie The sixteenth Chapter Assertion THe placing of Church-officers pertaineth to the Eldership Demonstration and also the displacing The 1. Demonstration They who are lawfully called from heauen to the ministerie outwardly by the means of men may not be displaced being blamelesse 1. Timoth. 3.10 But suche are the ministers whome the Bishoppes doe displace Ergo Howe doeth this agree with the issue Remonstrance or Assertion he taketh vpon him to proue vz. that as hee hath proued he saith afore the Eldershippes authoritie of placing so nowe he proues that they haue the displacing of ministers What euen without the peoples consent Beware this be no tyrannie by your owne constructions Cuius est instituere eius est destituere è conuerso But I pray good Demonstrationers doeth this followe Bishops displace men whom they ought not because they are blamelesse men Ergo displacing of ministers belongeth to the Eldership yet this is your reasoning in this Chapter Your brother Martine Malapert in Thesibus will ease both Bishops and Eldership of this labour For he sayeth that a minister once called may vpon none occasion by any humane authoritie bee displaced or put from preaching Belike it shal be a sanctuarie for him though he preach daily treason or committe anie wickednesse whatsoeuer your griefe is onely because you with your Eldership haue not the displacing of them for if you had it should then well be seene howe farre one man differeth from another and that the commissioners ecclesiastical are but sillie fellowes in comparison of you at remouing of a minister O beware at a dead lift as long as you liue of halfe a score substantial fellowes bredde vp at home To the Minor How many such are there of them whome the Bishops haue displaced Numero vix totidem quot Thebarum portae vel diuit is ostia Nili Not so many as the gates of Thebes haue beene euer so displaced nay name one and we graunt all They are othergates men then you beare the world in hand men cankered with malice pyning away with enuie of the present flourishing estate swolne with pride and ouerweening of themselues whose learning is contention whose zeale is singularitie and factious studie ingendring schisme and heresie in the Church As for the difference betweene vs and them euen so great as is betweene obedience and rebellion to God and the Prince these are the men the Bishops haue displaced let them name their own selues but his meaning is so long as they broch their owne fancies of their Church-gouernment to the people seditiously reuile and traduce the persons of Church-gouernors vniustly inueigh against our publike Lyturgie the lawes orders and rites of this Church ragingly breake all orders and the precious bond of peace and vnitie schismatically and wickedly so long they are blamelesse and not to be displaced Then turne the case the other waies imagine your Discipline were vp and a foote and I a poore minister of that Church and that I wil not obserue the order of praying preaching ministring of Sacramentes and marrying prescribed vnto all ministers by the Synode but in steede of it eyther that which I doe nowe vse or any other cleane differing deuised by my selfe I will likewise inueigh against the iniustice and tyrannie of your Eldershippes and Synodes and of them who assemble there I will confute that kinde of gouernment which my selfe haue subscribed vnto and condemne it as a tumultuous popularitie a newe fiction of mans brayne a multiplied popedome hauing neither reason practise nor commaundement for it and yet otherwayes I hope you shall not distaine me for life or vnsound doctrine shal In euerthelesse bee accounted blamelesse and not bee displaced by you Nay will you rest in displacing I holde that I escape well if I escape with banishment and so saue my life as I knowe to haue beene practised vpon lesse occasions then these by your Eldershippes You will say you haue good groundes to inueigh against ours and that we may not doe so against yours because it is holy pure reformed Discipline and proceeding then here ought to bee the issue and not to be offended that you are displaced as disturbers of the peace of the Church For I tell you we thinke no lesse euill of your gouernment then you speake of ours Qui hominem legibus belluam qui legem hominibus deum praeponit saith Aristotle 3. Polit. And therefore in that all your gouernment is grounded vpon Law-will-I and chested vp Pope-like in your Elders brestes to doe as shall like them best we holde it very tyrannie and as ill as Antichristian gouernement And thus I retort your reason
Christ for externall policie of the Church and to bee constituted for mere humaine policie Vide Sarau lib. 1. de diuersis grad minist This conclusion therefore driueth the dust and winde of their folly into their owne eyes God and christian policie ordeyneth all ministers Ergo all ministers haue the same efficient Or God and christian policie ordeyneth all ministers God and christian policy are not diuerse efficients as this diuerse man doeth dreame but subordinate for all christian policy is the good gift of God and therefore no efficient absolute of it selfe but effected by God The 2. Demonstration A diuerse forme maketh diuerse things Demonstration ministers of the word and the LL. BB. haue diuerse formes as their ordinacion sith one L.B. may ordeine a minister but there must be three to ordeine one of them Ergo To the Maior Whether you meane accidentall forme or substanciall Remonstrance it is not euer true viz. diuerse formes make diuers things you know the olde sayde saw Ouorum inter se similitudo Nothing so like as an egge to an egge Nothing so like as Hypocrates two twinnes which in specie were not different things yet the one was not the other Againe diuerse formes are in any thing as Trigonus in Tetragono the one included in the other or where the one is ordeyned for the complement and perfection of the other 2. physic Homo prius viuit vitam plantae deinde bruti postremò hominis To the Minor The ministers and the LL. BB. haue one essentiall forme in their ordinacion to the ministerie as in giuing them the ministeriall charge of the word the administration of the sacraments which is his commission for the ministery The forme is all one the consecration of a B. which is a commission for superiour authoritie in ordinacions and iurisdictions with the censures or whatsoeuer else is annexed thereunto is neuer a deale the more for the presence of three any newe or straunge ordiancion of a ministery For accidens non mutat speciem subiecti yet is it such as if we read al the old fathers counsels and other antiquitie who were like to know best in what sort the apostles planted established churches ye shal neuer find aboue one B. required at the ordination of any presbyter a priest or minister but 2. BB. at least and the Metropolitane at the consecration of a B. according to which number our booke of ordination in that behalfe was framed it may be gathered from the like ordination of Paul and Barnabas in the thirteenth of the Acts the one of which was an apostle the other vir apostolicus before from which example I reason thus Either this new ordination of Paul by the prophets and doctors of Antioch gaue him a new and diuerse ministerie from his former so that he continued not an Apostle still or else by this accession no such alteration is made But he continued an apostle still ergo by this accession of ordination or function no such diuersitie was made And consequently an accession of function or authoritie vnto our BB. by their consecration maketh them not cease to be ministers of the worde still which is contradictorie to their maior and therefore that vntrue But to pommell them about the pates with their owne swordes thus againe I may reason A diuerse forme maketh diuerse things Ministers and Elders in a church not yet established must bee chosen and ordeyned by the whole church but in a church established by the presbitery alone as their owne platformers describe which two bee diuers formes and diuerse members of ordeiners ergo they who be chosen and ordeyned after the first manner haue a diuerse ministery and eldershippe from such as be of the latter making and consequently the first being of another kinde cannot choose or ordeine any of the second sort and so shall their newe discipline be nipped in the head and stand after possibilitie of issue extinct Or thus A diuerse forme maketh diuerse things All our new discipliners sauing the church of Scotland which thinketh it a needelesse abrogated ceremony in ordination of elders doe necessarily require and vse imposition of hands ergo the ministers of Scotland haue a seuerall function and ministery from all reformed churches besides Or reason for your selues and reason thus Mixt formes put together make either no thing quia species cum specie non copulatur c. or a mingle mangle Retortion of their argument erratum naturae a monstruous thing The newe manner and guise of ordination by combining laitie and clergie is not actus purus but a compound and mixt forme ergo such ordination by the imposing of handes of laitie and clergie maketh their ministerie either a nullitie or a monstruous thing The 3. Demonstration Members of one diuision are distinct one from another Demonstration The L.BB. and ordinarie ministers are members of one diuision for the ministers are diuided into the Rulers and ruled Ergo To the Maior The axiome is Remonstrance Membra vnius diuisionis contra distinguuntur de se inuicem non predicantur are not verifiable one of another As a man is not an horse prudence is not fortitude fortitude is not prudence howbeit they are concident in vno subiecto as temperance and prudence in one Scipio Secondarily conueniunt in aliquo superiori meete and concurre in one generall or vniuersall a man and beast in one liuing creature This is T.C. ouersight See the defense of the answere to the admonition 203. pa. To the Minor The Minor we distinguish The Ministers are not oppositiuely distinguished but relatiuely Or the diuision is of the common of more into the common of the lesse They are not of diuers predicaments The argument to be framed is thus Euery B. is not an inferiour minister ergo euery inferiour minister is not a B. in or out of his parish viz. a parish B. which these men craue The fallacie is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Absurditie of the Demonstrator It is absurd to argue thus The BB. and other inferiour ministers are according to superioritie and inferiority of order distinct ergo altogether and in euery respect distinct Or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the worde that importeth ministers aswel as deacons or ministers are diuided into BB. and priests ergo BB. are not priests Or thus Their officers ecclesiasticall are diuided into pastores doctores presbyteros et diaconos ergo Pastores non sunt presbyteri et per consequens non sunt de presbyterio Pastours are none Elders and therefore are not of the Eldership The 4. Demonstration The thing that haue diuerse effects are diuers in themselues one from another Demonstration The LL.BB. and other ministers haue diuerse effects The one effecteth gouernment the other subiection Ergo To the Maior What a confident Demonstration call you this An 100. Remonstrance Instances to one thing Eaedem causae sunt interimentes quae efficientes