his owne Ma. This shift is fetch'd beyond the circumference of all probable Appararance Hee speakes in the e In Pref. lâ—b Salomonis present not in the preterperfect tense of the Church then being Legit ECCLESIA sed eos inter Canonicas Scripturas non recipit Yea by way of toleration he deliuers his minde permissiuely thus Legat Ecclesia ad edificationem plebis yet with this Limitation non ad authoritatem dogmatum Ecclesiasticorum confirmandam f De Ciuit. Dei lib. 18. cap. 38. Yea S. Augustine himselfe confesseth that one and the same man may write some thinges historica diligentia which though proceeding from himselfe may serue ad vbertatem cognitionis and other things ex inspiratione diuina which must be receiued ad authoritatem religionis Iab Those g Pag. 43. wordes come short of your summe to proue your Protestant distinction of the Canon of Manners and Canon of faith Ma. I grant Saint Hieromes sentence doth not deliuer these wordes in so many explicite sillables yet doth it necessarily imply as much in the implicite sence The Church readeth them for the edification of the people therefore they are in the Canon of Manners and serue to the bettering of knowledge The Church receiueth them not amongest the Canonicall Scriptures Therefore they are not in the Canon of faith as tending to th' authoritie of Religion Iab Euerie booke h Ibid. that may bee read for edification in the Church may not bee termed a rule of Manners What is iust with the rule of Manners is certainly good But actions aacording to these bookes wee speake of the Knight granteth may bee wicked For example to kill himselfe is a thing vnlawfull yet it is conformable to those actions that he saith are praysed in the Macchabees How then can they bee the Canon and Rule of Manners Min. Besides the Primarie and Diuine Canon of Manners properly so called I meane the Canonicall Scripture which is absolutely to bee receiued as wholy authenticall by and in it selfe there is also a Subordinate Ecclesiasticall rule which by vertue of Concordance is so farre to bee admitted for a rule as it is consonant to the first Thus the Macchabees from i So we call that awedge of Gold wherein there is some drosse the best and greatest part which is certainly good may deriuatiuely receiue the Denomination of the Canon of Manners albeit some little portion thereof be not leuelled and squared according to the first vnerrable squire This Deuiation though it exclude not the reading of the rest which may serue as a Subsidiarie promoter of edification yet can it not but debarre the whole from the Supremacie of k In Apocriphis etsi inuenitur aliqua veritas tamen propter multa falsa nulla est Canonica authoritas Aug. de Ciuit. Dei lib. 15. cap. 23. Canonicall esteeme Ma. Sir It is your courtesie thus to explane your selfe Yet vnder correction you doe not well to flie after the Doctors Lure It is sufficient for you that Saint l A Diuo Hieronimo extra Canonicos libros supputantur inter Apocripha locantur c. Ad Hieronimi limaÌ„ reducenda sunt tam verba Conciliorum quam Doctorum Caietan ad fin comment in l. hist Vet. Test Hieromes vndeniable testimonie hath explaned Saint Augustines Si Sobriè by which though the toleration of the Macchabees bee permitted yet the Canonization is vtterly m Maximè propter istos Martyres Machabaeos disanulled It belongeth to his taske to prooue them to bee of the Diuine Canon which hee shall more easily attempt then accomplish seeing Saint Augustine himselfe confesseth that the Ancient Iewes vtriusque tabulae custodes did not receiue them as they did the Law the Prophets and the Psalmes So that it will bee a point of no small difficultie without some Night-Ghosts reuelation to shew by what warrant or meanes the Church of Christ was after moued to adopt them Iab I could n Pag. 58. ioyne with Saint Augustine other Fathers no lesse ancient then hee canonizing the same bookes but his testimonie may suffice alone which bringeth with it the authoritie of the Church in his dayes Nick. Alas poore Doctor Bragge this is but a coppie of your countenance you will make but a mean liuing by singing Solus cum Solo I trowe Master Vicar wil bee able to vie fathers as fast as you Your Mastershippe may perhaps finde a Counter for the Post but you dare not for your eares bee in at the Payre Ma. Verily I thinke Clichtoueus was more then halfe a Prophet hee doth so visibly deschipher the guise of our Disputant as if hee were here present o Iudocus Clictoueus in Epist ad Franciscum Molinum Alij sunt saith hee qui non nisi suo credunt consilio quod semel asseruerunt volunt oraculo solidius vt haberi Alij autem authoritatula vna aut vnius scribentis dicto vt equus capistro retinentur caeteros aspernaentur qui ea de re aut dixerunt aut scripserunt Min. Sir it is faire play to till this gamester on by reseruing the best card till the last tricke The Ancient records of the Church shall be produced when they shall strike all dead for the present I thinke I shall sufficiently discharge my part if I make good the Knights argument out of S. Augustines ground to ratifie our conclusion Ma. Herein shall you not bestow your paines amisse Min. Then thus p Counters pa. 41 In Holy Canonicall Scripture there is no Diuine precept or permission to bee found that either to gaine Immortalitie or to escape any peril we may q Placuit vt hi qui per ferrum aut praecipitium sibi ipsis mortem inferunt nulla pro illis in oblatione commemoratio fiat Concil Bracaren 1. ca. 34 make away with our selues But Razias mentioned in the Macchabees is commended for a fact of this kind Ergo r His non adhibetur fides in quibus etiam contra fidem librorum Canonicorum quaedam leguntur Aug. de Ciuit. Dei lib. 18. cap. 38 they are not Canonicall Iab It was Å¿ Pag. 49. farre from Saint Augustines grauitie to read the Macchabees with so little Sobrietie as to thinke that Razias was praysed for killing himselfe t Pag. 51. writing against the Circumcellians hee doth often teach and largely prooue that Razias was not commendable for that fact which the Scripture did report not prayse Min. I will not presse you with tautologies neyther would I willingly bring Lyram ad Asinum vnlesse you were a better Musitian Lyraes record is extant that u Lyra in 2. Mach. cap. 14 the Scripture of that Booke which is receiued by the Church to be read for the Information of Manners doth not seeme to reprooue Razias but rather to commend him for killing himselfe c. Iab This is x Pag. 51. false and against the minde of Saint Augustine who
by mistaking of the word Canonicall which is sometimes taken largely to signfie aswel the Bookes that might concerne the Rule of Manners as those which serue for the foundation of the doctrine of Faith in which sence your Father and Councell are to be vnderstood whereas the same word in the strict and proper signification doth only comprehend the Bookes which agree with the Canon of the Hebrewes according to the generall consent of the Ancient Fathers of all Churches before the dayes of Saint Augustine To this end hee sent no worse p Letter to T.H. pag. 62. Messenger to cleare this doubt then a person eminent both by name and place I meane that famous Cardinall Cajetan Ne turberis Nouitie saith he Si alicubi reperias libros istos inter Canonicos supputari Cum hac distinctione poteris discernere dicta Augustini scripta in Concilio Prouinciali Carthaginensi Hee tels you that they are thus to be vnderstood as also that none but Nouices in the writing of the Ancient Fathers will trouble themselues by making any question in so apparaÌ„t a truth Nick. Iabal hath well requited him for his paines I trow he hath sent the Cardinall away with a flea in his eare If Caietan had beene Pope hee would haue beene twice aduised before he had so rudely reiected his Oracles My fellow Iack Footeman would haue no great Maw to carry a Message to such a currish Swaine from whom hee expects no better entertainment Min. Caietan I wis had more wit in his little finger then Iabal in his whole body Beati Pacifici was his aime Should such hot-spurres as our Nouice haue beene made Arbitrators there would haue beene such a broyle amongst the Fathers as would not be easily reconciled For if you take away this fauourable most probable distinction you should soone see a field pitch'd betweene q Vide Admon praefix Concord Bibliorum per haered Wecheli Cyril Cyprian Origen r Si quid extra haec inuenitur inter adulterinos libros numerandum est Greg. Nazian Nazian zene Å¿ Anthonin Summ. maior Parâ— 3. tit 18. cap. 6. § 2. Hierome t Alij libri sunt qui non Canonici sed Ecclesiastici a maioribus appellati sunt eiusdem ordinis Tobiae Iudith et Machabaeorum libri Ruffi in Symbol fol. 575. Ruffinus Epiphanius u Sunt Canonici veteris testamenti libri viginti duo lâ—teris baebraicis numero parâ—s Aâ—ban ex Synopsi Athanasius Eusebius and Gregory on th' one side discarding them and Augustine the Councell of Carthage Trent on th' other part defending them When this pitch'd battel should haue beene fought the Romanists might haue sought our valiant Sanga vnder the Trundle-bedde till the hurly burly had beene at at end vnlesse they had pluckt him out by the heeles no perswasion would haue drawne him to shew his face they are all so peremptory and plaine against the Canonizing of these Apogriphall bookes This was not vnknowne to the Cardinal who was thereby induced to thinke that S. Augustine tooke the word Canonicall in the larger sence as comprehending the Ecclesiasticall writings within the verge thereof Ma. Had it beene an error an the Iewes not to haue receiued these bookes as they did the Law and the Prophets I cannot thinke but that Christ or his Apostles would surely haue reproued so notable a crime seeing they were not meale-mouthed in the reprehension of lesser faults And whereas we receiue this maine benefit by the Apostacy of the Iewes that therby the world seeing them enemies vnto the Messias cannot but giue the greater credence to the bookes of th' old Testament without suspect of partiality which otherwise might haue beene doubted the adopting of these other Apocriphall into the Canon were as much as in vs lieth to vilifie th' authority of their authentique records who may not improbably be thought to haue taken in those that were adulterine as well as to haue degraded those that are found to haue beene diuine Min. If all other reasons were mute me thinkes the Author Matter and Manner of the history might well make an ingenuous person very sparing in the defence The Author if wee may credit the x Vide Zanch. de diuin attrib lib. 4. ca. 4. enlarging Epitomizer of these bookes is y 2. Mac. 2.23 Iason Cirenaeus a z Spiritu sancto inspirati loquuti sunt sancti Dei homines 2. Pet. cap. 1. v. 21. heathen man for-sooth a fit Secretarie for the Court of heauen It seemes pen-men were then as scanty as sometimes a 1. Sam. c. 13. v. 19. Smiths in Palestine This must needs bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which requireth so much b 2. Mac. 2. v. 26. watching sweating and pains in the refining Calamus Scribae velociter scribentis would haue eased all this toyle which is not to bee feared where the Omniscient spirit is the Dictator As touching the matter it is wouen in a webbe of such palpable contradictions that a man who regardeth his credit would be sorry at his heart to bee taken tripping in such contrary tales One while c 1. Mach. c. 6. v. 16. Antiochus died for griefe in Babilon Another while hee was slaine in the Temple of d 2. Mac. c. 1. v. 13. Nanea where his head was cut off And yet is not Antiochus out of his paine As if he had as many liues as a Cat you shal see him stalke once more vpon this historicall Stage and then at last fall downe and dye with a most noysome stinking smell consumed with e 2. Mach. c. 9. v. 9. Ducit ad inferos â— educit wormes Indeede I must needs say he is very modest in the deliuery He writes not f Math. 7. v. 29. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as one who had the custody of the mint to warrant the mettle whereunto he had put his stampe but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pleasure and recreation of the reader Had he had the warrant of the spirit hee would haue spared the labour of begging fauor and suing out a pardon for which hee is faine to crowch to the Readers gentlenesse Ma. Then had the holy Father S. Augustin good cause to say that they are receiued profitably if they bee read Soberly For if they should bee read with a precipitate opinion as Canonicall Scriptures in the strict sence the many leakes which are transparant in them would goe very neere to sinke th' authority of the rest Iab It appeareth by that testimony against the Epistle of Gaudentius that the Christians gaue that authority to those h Pag. 55. bookes which the Iewes did not grant vnto them that the Church did set them vp in the throne from which the Synagogue had kept them which was the Imperiall throne of sacred Authority Otherwise S. Augustins opposition The Iews did not but The Church doth were vaine Ma. The
other doth giue may not be the best which is to erre according to the Analogy of place not of faith Ma. The Knights answere is not yet refelled If the Doctrine of true faith depend vpon the soliditie of exposition it cannot be but they who may errein the Analogy of exposition of place may likewise faile in the Analogy of faith Laeso fuÌ„damine nutat Tota domâ— Iab This Distinction you n Ibid. vnderstand not when manie Fathers of the Church agree in the same exposition of Scripture without the contradiction of anie the same is to be thought the vndeniable sence of that place Ma. The Doctrine of the Romish Church is far more strict then you seeme to allow If the credit of the Ihesuite Chauasius o Profess orth sid §. 37 may beare any sway you are to stand to that exposition of Scripture and that vpon oath which is Secundum vnanimem consensum Patrum whereas you content your selfe with the agreeable consent of manie p Ad quem ibimus Fathers in the same exposition of Scripture How you will auoid perjurie or what time you had need take to the making of a Sermon following this rule I referre me to your most serious and sober thoughts he had need haue a good Librarie that will auoid the censure of your Church yea he may perchance burne all his bookes before hee shall set them agreed In this point wee will giue allowance to your position hauing produced more demonstratiue authorities for the nullifying then you for the ratifying of Purgatorie I confesse it will bee no easie matter for vs to prooue a contradiction in the exposition of the place especially amongest those who neuer heard of that Commentitious figment for how should they gain say that which was not so much as questioned in the more Ancient times It sufficeth vs that your sence hath no generall iustification in neyther of your grounds which are otherwise interpreted by the most and not peremptorily paraphrased for your purpose by anie of the best ranke Iab Caluins q Pag. 70 Arianizing wit though hee may find some plausible euasion cannot be excused of haereticali call rashnesse who dareth expound this text of Scripture Ego Pater vnum sumus I and the father are one of vnitie of consent and will not of nature and substance adding that the Ancients did abuse the same to proue the consubstantialitie of the Sonne of God Seing the vniforme consent of Fathers haue canonized that meaning of the words he cannot be a true Christian that will not neyther was Caluin that did not submit his Iudgement thereunto Ma. May the Fathers to proue this or that Catholique veritie bring in places of Scripture that haue other sence yea maie the sence that one or other doth giue not bee the best though the Doctrine thereby proued be true then iudge how base and iniurious an imputation you lay vpon Caluin fetching him by force within the compasse of hereticall Arianizme who was euer most aduerse to that viperous brood hauing no other crime to challenge him withall besides a religious modestie in forbearing to rack a parcell of Scripture for the vttering of that euidence which was more naturally deputed to the deliuery of other places The sacred writ is so plentifull in proofes for the confutation of that diuellish surmise that hee held it no good discretion to rayse a suspition of penurie or doubt by insisting vpon that which being not fully pregnant might bee auoided by the indifferent sence of another clause where the same phrase did occurre You may as well challenge Bellarmine Valentianus and other Ihesuites who in their Treatises concerning the Trinitie doe not approoue of manie interpretations of Scripture which were by the Fathers somewhat too liberally produced against the same Heresie of Arianisme As for the place now questioned the judgement of Caluin is that the word vnum cannot absolutely euince an Indiuidual vnitie of Essence because in the seuententh of Iohn vers 22. Christ prayeth vnto his father concerning the elect that they may be one as we are one where the word vnum cannot inforce an vnitie of Essence in respect of the elect and therefore not inferre an Indiuidual vnitie in respect of the father This Inducement of Caluin thus grounded vpon Analogie of Scripture doth at least acquit him from your Taxation of Rashnesse Might it stand with your leasure to peruse his diuers confutations of Arianisme you should find him plentifull in alleadging manie other more direct places to that end Iab Hee cannot bee a true Christian that would not submit his Iudgement to the vniforme consent of the Fathers Ma. This is your vsuall ostentation this is one of the bombasted Articles of your new Romish faith If this may be allowed as the touch stone of Christianitie all the sort of you will soone appeare to bee most professedly periured aboue all other Votaries in the world There are diuers places of Scripture expounded with vniforme consent of Fathers in cases of no small moment which are at this day r D. Mâ—rta de Iurisdict part 4. pag. â—73 Maldon com in Mat. 19. Platin. in Steph. vita rejected by your Church When you pull out this beame of Periurie out of your owne eye you may with better licence point at the mote of Rashnesse which you cast vpon Caluins brow Iab The vniforme consent of Fathers Å¿ Pag. 71 doth not require that euerie one none excepted should expressely teach the same Doctrine for then scarse in anie point could this vniforme consent be proued seeing all write not of the same point but it sufficeth that manie haue taught it without the contradiction of the rest and such is the exposition of this place for Purgatorie and for the dead in the next world Nick. O how curious the Doctor is in his limitations and preuentions hee would haue made a good Lawyer able to set all his neighbours together by the eares Hee is content to chop Logick with you by the clocke but to keepe himselfe from push of Pike he sets a dead hedge and a double quicke set in the way When he boasts of vniforme consent hee meanes not euerie father none excepted when hee speakes of teaching he supposeth it may be collaterally and not expresly Besides he would haue you learne that all who expound the same place doe not write of the same point Nay more if the corruptions of latter times haue put a Quillet vpon any learned mans pen vnlesse it bee contradicted by the writers of former ages who did not so much as suspect any such vnhatched Nouelties it must passe as currant not to be opposed whithout the tincture of heretical rashnesse This I take to be the project of Iabals mazed speech Ma. By my white Staffe the earnest of my neighbours loue and the Ensigne of mine office well noted He would lead vs into a Labyrinth and wot you what the taile of his assertion sauors more of
with the loathsome staines of Heathenish Idolatry If words will carry it wee will roll in our figures as well as you Iab Oh what x Pag. 95. glorious Fathers and Doctors could I name famous in former ages for sanctity and learning that submitted their iudgements to the sayings of the Church Ma. O what a glorious Church were your Antichristian Synagogue did it not dissent from that primitiue purity of doctrine whereunto those famous Doctors and holy Fathers did subscribe then were it insolent madnesse in any to reiect her authority Iab Little y Pag. 96. Iudgement or piety doe you shew in your iest at our Ladies A. B. C as if the authority of the Church were not the Alphabet and Christ-Crosse row in which all Christians ought and all ancient Christians did learne to read and beleeue the Scriptures S. Augustine the Phoenix of wits the Mirrour of learning did hee not learne in this booke Truly saith he I would not belieue the Gospell did not the Churches authority mooue mee vnto it Min. Sooner shal you perswade vs that a foule noysome Stye is a faire princely pallace then that your Romish Seminary is that Church of which S. Augustine spake And yet must that holy Father bee z Non disputas ad idem rightly vnderstood He spekes there of his Introduction to the faith not of the Foundation thereof Being before a Manichy he could not of himselfe haue found the way out of the darknesse of that blind heresy vnlesse the Catholique Church had lent him her hand to conduct him to those Christall streames by the a Ecclesia proposuit Euangelium Euangeliu composuit fidem vertue whereof his eyes were opened and his mynd enlightened He had beene like enough to haue passed by that Liuing fountaine without regard had not their b Causa sine qua non direction who had made triall of the soueraignty therof persuaded him to make his repayre thither for the like successe Wherefore he should haue bene very vngrateful for so irrequitable a benefit had he concealed the meanes whereby that his so great happines was so luckily occasioned What good he receyued from the Church he freely acknowledgeth yet is he not so vniust as to make his requital with the Scriptures c Non dicit Nisi me Ecclesiae authoritas Moueret sed Commoueret wronge Yea so farre is he from subiecting those infallible Oracles to the Iudgement of Men that in the fourth Chapter of the same d Aug. Cont. Epist funda booke he challengeth the Manichyes to produce Scripture for their opinionatiue error with protestation that he would then forsake the name of the Church the Consent of people and Nations and returne vnto them So that howsoeuer the authority of the Church was an allectiue inducement to drawe him to the Ghospell yet was the Ghospell a farre more potent instrument in the founding and setling of the spirituall edifice of his faith vppon the solidity whereof he did principally and most confidently depend Ma. If it had not bene for the tydings of the little e 2. Reg. 5.3 Mayd Naaman had not gone to the Prophet in Samaria by whose praescript he was healed Shall we therefore saye that she had any hand in the curing of his leprosy No doubt her courtesie was not forgotten but the mayne homage and rewarde was offered to the man of God Had it not bene for the f Ioh. 4.42 Woman the Samaritans had not come vnto Christ but they heard him speake before they knew him to be Christ then loe they beleiued not because of her wordes but because themselues had heard him Iab The g Pag 57. Ladies of your Church learne forsooth of the spirit they trust to ipse dixit who will teach them which is the Scripture They are the sheepe of Christ and knowe his voice from that of strangers Theise are your Ministers faire promises Yet I dare giue them my worde though they haue the best spirit that euer possessed any man of your Church notwithstanding they maie erre damnably mistacke Scripture thinck that to be true translation which is indeed erroneous I see h Pag. 98. no remedy for them if they meane to be saued from the Deluge of errours but to fly to the Arke of Noe printed at Venice Your sheepe must learne in an hebrew Grammar to vnderstand their Pastors they must nibble on those rootes of Iury wherewith it would be great pitty your rare Creatures should be troubled Min. As touching our translations of the Bible though they admit a variety of style and phrase yet they concurre in a Sympathizing vnity of matter and sence They all accord in one issue without contradiction they all direct by one and the same waye to one and the same end so that the most vnlearned if he haue not a desire to goe astray cannot tread amisse There being but one choice of truth proposed there is hardly any possibility of being deceiued The Ladyes are not ignorant with what princely Cost and Care that Worke hath bene lately reuised by such graue learned and industrious persons who for knowledge in the originall tongues were best esteemed and for their sincerity least to be suspected Wherefore this hauing past the test of strictest discusse being allowed by the Church and vncontrolled by the most prying and Censorious aduersarie they are assured of the infallible truth thereof By the sweetnes of the fruite they euidently see that it sprang from a sound Roote by the illumination of the i 1. Ioh. 2.20 spirit which leadeth into all trueth by the ministry of the worde of God ratifyed with the k In Euangelijs omnis veritas omnis manifestatio veritatis Origen agreement and explaned with the perspicuous reasons of the Scripture it selfe by the efficacy thereof in captiuating their vnderstandings vnto the diuine will and their carnall affections to the regiment of a supernaturall lawe by often reading which begetteth experience and by hearty prayer which hath a promise of effectuating their zealous desires they are infallibly sure that their translation is true and their vnderstanding agreable to the rule of faith Moreouer the principles of faith with are absolutely and necessarily to be knowne beleiued and practized of all men are there blazed with such a l Aug de doct chris l. 2. c. 9. radiant lustre that without affected ignorance they are obuious to euery eye Though perhaps the genuine interpretation of some places of lesse consequence be sometymes mistaken yet is not the foundation raced so that their error is neither pernicious nor damnable Ma. If our Ladyes thus furnished in their mother tongue hauing no recourse to the hebrew text be in such danger of errour in what a pittifull plight are those creatures who are tyed to their vulgar latin translation which they vnderstand not How shall they trye the spirits of their teachers hauing so crooked a rule which they know not how to
vse May not such a Pilot as Dr. Iabal steere their vessells vpon the rockes and sandes how shall they know that this or that is the sence or Tradition of the Catholique church I see no remedy for them but to fly to Socrates Zozomen Eusebius Theodoret and the other Antiquaries for releife and then they must be well skilled in the tongues Nick. Yf there should be a grammar schoole erected for the feminine gender it would be a braue world Iabal would sue for the Vsher-shipp O how featly would he discipline their Albes There would be Tollo tollis sustuli The Girles will neuer consent to so harsh a motion they had rather speake true english at home then make false latin at Schoole vnder such an yll-faced Tutor Iab Had not m Pag. 58. Luther the first fruites of the protestants spirit Yet he erred most grossely that euen Zuinglius his fellow-witnes against the Pope doth giue this testimony against him Thou Luther doest corrupt the worde of God thou art seene to be a manifest corrupter of the holy Scriptures If he be so corrupt what translation or spirit of your church may your Ladies trust Ma. These are not the first fruites of your witlesse malice neither was Luther the first Coyner of our protestant faith which doth carry the right stampe of the most auncient sacred and primitiue truth Let the Scripture be the arbitrator of his writings then will your slaunder be soone silenced and supprest with shame As he was a man he might be subiect to some particular error which if Zuinglius reproued by warrant of the Scriptures it proceeded from his loue to the truth not out of hatred to his person And haue there not bene worse broyles among your scholasticall Diuines Haue not the positiue Constitutions of former Councells bene repealed by those that succeded Haue not the Popes Decrees bene censured and discarded by their successors Where was your Catholique spirit all that while It is in vaine to looke for a n Foelix qui minimis vrgetur heauen vppon earth Shall the whole fabrick be puld downe because a Wyndowe or a Chimney or a Tyle is misplaced He is a good Architect that leaues nothing to mend Zuinglius his reproofe may informe you that our Church is more deuoted to the Scriptures verity then to the most prime mans authority Iab This is o Pag. 98. 99. the felicity of our Catholike Ladies that by the worde of the Church they know certainlie which is the letter of the scripture Which your Ladyes like stray-sheepe must seeke on the topp of craggy mountaines as the Knight tearmeth the Hebrew language not without eminent daunger of an eternall downefall Nick. Here is a doe with the Ladies falling Yf you were their Gentleman Vsher should they not haue a stout supporter Stand to your tackling good Doctor Iab There is such a Ibid. confusion in your Church that as Irenaeus noted of auncient Heretikes one shall scarce find two that will spell the same sence out of the same wordes Ma. Why hath God giuen such diuersity of guiftes to his Church but that there should be q Quid in diuinis eloquiis largius vberius potuit diuinitus prouideri quam vt eâ—dem verba pluribus inte ligantur modu Aug. de Doct. Chris lib. 3. variety of applications Is not the Kings Daughter in fimbrijs aureis circumamicta r Psal 45.14 varietatibus Clad in a vesture wrought about with diuerse colours If the stuffe be the same t is no great matter though the lace and embrodery be not laid in all alike What contradictions can can you specify in their expositions Iab These foure Å¿ Pag. 99. wordes Hoc est corpus meum contayning not aboue fourteene letters you haue deuised aboue fower times fortie expositions so different as the Authors of the one damne the Fauorers of the other to Hell Ma. A fitt receptacle for all such loud lyars who care not what Crudityes they vomit vppon the bosome of the most eminent and innocent persons without either feare or shame Min. They that are conuersant in the writings of your Catholique Authors know that there is allmost as much difference among them about the three letters of this one sillable Hoc as is amongst the Protestants in the whole sentence Ma. If Mercury himselfe were amongst them with his rodd of truce all his Rhetorique would hardly teach them their t Quid dem quid non dem renuis tu quod iubet alter Concordes Iabal forgets how Leo the second condemned Pope u In Epist ad Imperat. ad fin 6. Synod Honorius for an Heretique Had Zuinglius serued Luthers bookes as Pope x Platina in Sabin Senens lib. 4. pag. 23. Sabinian did the workes of Gregorie his predecessor wee should haue an outcry against fiery spirits then he might more tolerably haue demaunded What shal your poore Ladies do in this combate Iab They may y Pag. 99. rashly perswade themselues that this or that exposition is the best but certaine of any thing they can neuer bee till they admit the Catholike Ladies A.B.C. the Churches authoritie learning of her the sence of whom they tooke the text Nick. When the men of Thessalonica z Act. 17.11 tried the Apostles Doctrine whether it were true or no did they send a Legate to learne the judgement of the Church of Rome Vnto whom did they repaire but vnto a Scrutabantur Scripturas him that had the wordes of life Our Ladies are not so raw in the Scriptures but that if there were such difference amongst our Ministers as you suppose they can take that which doth best agree with the Analogie of Faith and the Rule of Charitie The spirit of God is not so fixed to the Doctors chaire but that it is most free to make euen them of the lowest forme b Super Senes intellexi quia mandata tua quaesiui Psa 119 v. 100. wise vnto saluation Ma. I haue heard a worthie speech of Panormitan often alleaged to this purpose that there is more credit to be giuen to one c Plus credendum viro Laico afferenti Scripturas c. Laick that bringeth Scripture then to a generall Councell representing the vniuersall Church if it haue not the warrant of the word It is not long time since I read how Paphnutius by this meanes preuailed against a whole Synode and stopped the passage of the warrantlesse superstition of single life And not without great reason For if antiquitie be to bee respected or consent to be regarded the Prophets and Apostles haue the superioririe in both Min. Whereas he complaines of confusion and danger of misinterpretation for the magnifying of Tradition he forgets the censure of d Lib. 3. Cap. 2 Irenaeus vpon the prime Heretiques for the same quarrell e Difficilis paucisque conueniens eruditis Aug. aduers Iulian. l. 5. c. 1 Iulian the Pelagian thought by
contrary so it sorteth best with her honour who was the Mother of our Sauiour As for rebaptizing of those who were baptized by o Efficacia Sacramenti est ex institutioni ordinansis non ex sanctitate minâ—strantis Baptismus talis est qualâ—s ille iâ— câ—ius potestate datur non qualiâ— percuius ministerium datur Aug. in Ioh. â— Heretiques we rather follow Augustine then Cyprian yet not because he hath taught it but for that as him selfe saith Ex Euangelio profero certa documenta I haue sure p Eph 4.5 proofes out of the Ghospell Yea he pronounceth a q Cont. lit Petil. lib. 3. ca 6. curse vppon all such as teach any thing either of Christ or his Church or any other matter of faith besides that which is receyued from the Legall and Euangelicall Scriptures I once heard a Papist exceedingly puzled with a speeck of his to r Ad Max. lib. 3. cap. 14. Maximinus Neque ego Synodum Nicaenam nectu Ariminensem debes tanquam praeiudicaturus afferre Nec ego huius authoritate nec tu illius detineris Scripturarum auctoritatibus non quorumcumque proprijs sed vtrisque communibus testibus res cum re causa cum causa ratio cum ratione certet Min. Irenaeus Tertullian who had to doe with such refractory Heretiques as either denyed the purity of the Scriptures or traduced the perspicuity of them did both of them appeale to Tradition because they where challenged at that weapon by their aduersaries And by what Compasse did they saile first they proue that alone to be true and authenticall Tradition which was deliuered by Christ to the Apostles and by them to the Church by whome it was successiuely deriued to posterity Secondly they stand for no other Traditions but for the very same articles of faith which were contayned in the written worde Peruse Å¿ Irenae lib. 1. cap. 2.3 lib. 3. cap. 4. Tertul. lib. de praescrip haeret both their seuerall and specificall Enumerations of Traditions which the Church hath successiuely continued and you shall find them to iumpe in all respects with the Apostles Creede T is true they might haue proued them before competent Iudges by the authority of Scripture but as the Case stoode the authority of the Church was thought more preualent and the rather that they might shew the harmony thereof with the holy Scriptures Wherefore if you stand for such Traditions as they vrge it is fit your Bill should passe otherwise you must not take it ill if your Grace be stopt Iab Doe but t Pag. 105. read your learned Author Hierome Zanchius who will giue you a newer tune then that you haue piped vnto vs. That Author teacheth that diuerse vnwritten Traditions concerning Doctrine and Manners are in the Church which are not only profitable but in a manner necessary which we must reuerence and obey else we contemne the authority of the Church which is very displeasing vnto God Your Dr. Feild grauntes that Papists haue good reason to equall their Traditions to the written worde if they can proue any such vnwritten verities Ma. Zanchius meaneth not your Lenten fast your Ecclesiasticall orders of Acolothytes and Exorcists your Purgatory and Prayer for the dead which you will sooner proue to be dreames then Apostolicall Traditions but the very same which Tertullian and Irenaeus haue recorded for such Dr. Feildes If touching the poynt in question carries the sence of an impossible Supposition which we haue reason to suspect till your Purgatory shewe a better pedigree If you can proue this to be one of those vnwritten TraditioÌ„s whereof Zanchius speaketh then we will according to Dr. Feildes aduise not much dissent from your Conclusion till then we must craue pardon Iab The u Pag. 107. places which the Knight alleadgeth to proue the Churches Doctrine in this pointe to be a Sathanicall figment disgracefull vnto the great mercy of God and euacuating the Crosse of Christ are many but either so triuiall and knowne together with the Catholiques aunsweres or else so ridiculously applied wrung and wrested to your purpose that their very sound is able to breake a learned mans head Nick. Then had you neede of a good head-peice to beare off the weight of the blowe whose sound maketh so great a battery Yet if none but learned mens heads be in daunger of breaking your rough-hewen skonce neede feare the lesse Well seeing my Mr. is arrested for bloud-shed he meanes to aunswere the action vpon Bayle And for want of a better Atorney let me craue a Coppy of your Plea Iab Shall x Pag. 108. I make the Analisis of his Rhetoricall arguments They be three Enthymems I thinke The first The Gates of Hell shall not preuaile against the Church ergo there is no Purgatory The second The scule of Christ went downe to the nethermost hell ergo no Purgatory can be found The third Christ bound the strong man and tooke his Fortresse ergo Purgatory must vanish awaye Ma. The argument that once passeth your fingers is not dismissed without a torne fleece but seeing we must take it as you present it let vs heare your exceptions why it should vndergoe so triuiall and ridiculous a censure Iab Can you y Ibid. deny but many of your praedestinate and Elect are for robbing and stealing and other such crimes locked vp in London Gaoles What shall not Hell-gate preuaile against them shal the wal of a prison mew them vp Hath the soule of Christ gone downe into the nether-most Hell made no passage through Newgates Limbo where sometimes your Elect are kept Hath hee bound the strong man that hee should not harme and shall now a Hangman put them to death You perceiue I hope the vanitie of your Inferences Ma. Hee that lookes vpon them through your spectacles may read Absurdity indeed But that you may know the falsenesse of your Glasse by the mishapen Representation which it giueth to so well a proportioned face you must bee aduertised that the Knights argument was neyther so Wide-mouthed nor so Goggle-eyed as the picture which you haue drawne according to your own Idaea to resemble it He speaks of the state of th'elect in the after-world according to the intendement of the Scriptures alleaged you wrest it to their corrections in this life which haue their profitable vse His scope looks to the satisfying of Gods Iustice which Christ hath fully accomplished and not to those Chastisements which are as spurres to driue men to lay hold vpon that all-sufficient Sacrifice at which your Squint-eyed supposition doth glance Min. There are sundrie reasons why the Lord suffereth his Elect to vndergoe those bodily penalties First for the manifestation of his owne Iustice Secondly for their Correction humiliation and amendement that their Spirits may bee saued in the day of the Lord Thirdly for the Caution and Example of others Fourthly for the maintenance of publike tranquillitie and politique Societie
that brought it Harry the Portar Idem de eodem VVHen Chance came in he seem'd to bring a prize Nick look'd and found a fardle full of Lies And when he tooke it Chance did wag his tayle Praesaging that the Groome should Iabal quaile When Dogs bring popish Libels tween their gills T is time for Groomes to exercise their quills THE CONTENTS of the seuerall Chapters of this Booke CHAP. 1. Pag. 1. THe Libellers malice fraud and folly detected CHAP. 2. Pag. 71. The Machabees vnthronized CHAP. 3. Pag. 103. Purgatories deduction Logically and Theologically disprooued CHAP. 4. Pag. 150. The Scriptures authority and sufficiency warranted against Praier for the dead and other Romish traditions CHAP. 5. Pag. 206. Lipsian Miracles morterized CHAP. 6. Pag. 246. Great Gregories proud Delegate dismounted and popish pretended deuotion vncased Dialogue Betweene the Maior of Queenboroughe Minister of Queenboroughe NICK Groome of Queenboroughe Iabal Rachil Libeller A CVRRY-COMBE for a Cox-combe CHAP. I. The Libellers malice pride fraud and folly detected Ma. WHat honest Nick Welcome into Sheppy How fares the noble Knight and all the true Trojans at home Nick. I thanke God Sir all well My Master remembers his loue to your Worship to you Master Vicar and to all his friends in these parts Min. We are much bound to him for his kinde remembrance but I wonder what winde driues you hither we may strew greene rushes for you I thinke you were neuer heere since Master Maior tooke his oath Nick. Sir you are in the right but such troublesome guests come soone enough like foule weather before they be sent for Ma. Nay say not so Nick the worst dogge in your masters house cannot come vnwelcome to Queenborough Nick. That 's more of your kindnesse then our merit but I pray you what 's the reason the bowling greene is so emptie vpon so faire a day Min. Why man there is a great Faire at Sittingburne thither they are all gone tag rag and long-taile Nick. Then I feare I am come at an ill time Ma. Why so Nick. My master hath sent me for the pyde nagge hee would haue him runne in Iames parke lest hee spoile himselfe this drie season besides I haue appointed the Smith to bee heere in the afternoone Now if the Castle-keeper bee gone to buy Hobby-horses too I am in a faire case Min. To put you out of doubt vpon my knowledge he is ridde out more then an houre and a halfe since Nick. Then it is likely to be darke night before he finde the way home Ma. Assure your selfe of that it is a forfeit for a Sheppy-man to come from a Faire till Sunne set Nick. See the ill lucke and the worst is I know not how to spend the time all this liue-long day Ma As if I haue not a good dish of Oysters and a cold pye at home to hold you tacke Nick. Many thankes good Master Maior but in very deed I brake my fast so well with our old Gardiner at Vpberry before I came out that I shall haue little mawe to any meate till night Min. Then what will you doe Nick. On my little honestie I know not vnlesse some good bodie would lende mee a Play-booke to make my worship laugh Ma. Faith Nick I doe not remember any such in my custodie but our Searcher lent me a merry book which came to his hands the last weeke Min. Sir you meane that squibbing pamphlet against Sir Edward Hoby which I borrowed of you yesterday morning Ma. The very same I would you would take the paines to fetch it Min. That labour shall be saued we neuer parted companies since we met Nick. Now if you bee kinde gentlemen let vs sit downe yonder vpon a Secretum silentium magis disputationibus conuenit ne sermo interpâ—llâ—tur a tanta vltro citroque cuntâ—um hominum frequentâ—â— sirepitu Pennylesse Bench and suruey it Ma. Agreed for I thinke wee shall haue no bodie in hast come to trouble vs. Nick. What may the title of the booke bee and who is the Author Min. He may be Nicholas nemo for ought I know he discouers himselfe only by the marke of b Conscia splendâ—ntâ—in formidat noctua solem I. R. Nick. I dare lay a good wager it is that Ishmael Rabshacheh whom my Master so hampred in his CouÌ„ter-snarle my minde giues me it is the same Gurgullio whose late arriuall makes him so much merriment Min. Not vnlike hee hath wonne the spurres for an arch-rayler The most rauing and brauing Paf-quil that euer I read Had he gotten any prize by his last worke you should haue now seene him out of his maskers sute he stands close behinde his picture if it passe currant he will then peepe out otherwise he will hide his head in a Bench-hole Ma. But is this the fashion of professed c Illi saciem velant qui se pudenda dicere cognoscunt fatentur se non dicenda dicere Laur. Val. de volupt lib. 3. Diuines to broach Positions which they dare not justifie with the subscription of their names and being namelesse themselues to perbreake persons of note Nick. Doe you wonder at that As if old purse-takers will present themselues in their owne likenes without vizards and scarfes Ma. Indeede that were the next way to the Gallowes but surely this kinde of cunning ioyned with so great scurrility which in my little view I discouered would make me shrewdly suspect their d Non sic Phidias qui clypeo Mineruae imaginem suam insculpsit sinceritie who are so intemperate in their owne affections and regardlesse of better mens credits Min. This is the Catholike charitie and soule-gaining patience practised now adayes but he is not without his shifts That he concealeth his name it is his e Page 26. humilitie as regardlesse of worldly respects That hee is so tarte it proceedeth from his zeale of the cause not any hatred of the person Ma. In my opinion he needs not feare any great applause for the extraordinary skil of his work T' is well if he scape in this learned age without reproof· But to make zeale the Patron for his f A trimme Minion one of a merry scoffing wit Frier-like Steph. Winton against G. Ioy. page 2. personall trumps is intollerable hypocrisie Min. Could he shew any such sparkes of personall disdaine flying from Saint Augustines penne there were yet some little hope that hee hath at least a dramme of that Primitiue Spirit but you shall heare how he contradicts himselfe g Preface Dedicatorie Saint Augustine saith he did endeauour to curbe the motions of anger seeking to ouercome his Aduersaries not by returne of iniurious reproaches to disgrace their persons but by cleare Demonstrations of the victorious truth Ma. Then is hee as like Saint Augustine as an Owle to an Iuie bush Nick. And could hee single out no body but my Master to make the Anuill of his malice I doubt hee hath