he punish them for no fault at all 4. But give me leave now Mr. Bagshaw to ask Who are you of what Sect Of what Church Common report gives you for a Presbyterian a man formerly very busie in the Intrigues of that Faction Yet some passages in your Preface and Epistle Dedicatory speak you an Independent in which you call your self an Assertor of Christian Liberty complaining of the keenness of Laws against such a disliker of Episcopal Authority as setled in England and one that refuses to admit the interpretation of Scripture from any Person or Church but only from your own private Reason Most likely it is you reserve in petto a Declaration whether party you mean to adhere to till you see how they are likely to thrive till then you would pass for an Amphibion And truly such a temper among you threatens much danger to the State When Pilate and Herod are made friends Christ must look to himself 5. If you be an Independent on all others will you not suffer others to be Independent likewise on you Or if you be a Presbyterian are you not content with enjoying hitherto the fruits of his Majesties most gracious promise from Breda None pretend more then you to tender consciences Have any call'd you in question for differences in Religion But this it seems will not serve your turn Nor an Independents turn Your tender conscience will not accept of the only condition that his Majesty annexes to this his Grace which is That you must not disturb the peace of the Kingdom This most just and necessary condition you here in your Preface renounce in which you again blow the Trumpet to sedition by telling the World that English Divines are bringing in Popery If that were true as long as it may be permitted to you to be Presbyterians or Independents among your selves what do you complain of Will you never leave this peevish this malicious envy not to content your selves with your own safety unless others be ruin'd 6. But it is intolerable that you should call your selves in your Preface We Protestants and talke of our Reformed Church of England or our Ancestors Our primitive protestancy c. Are you an English Protestant a member of the English Church established by Law and Canons Why then do you not submit peaceably to the government of your Bishops and indifferent Ceremonies Why do you reject the Book of Common Prayer enacted by supreme authority both Spiritual and Temporal to be the publick Liturgy of the protestancy of England Why do you find fault with the keenness of Laws against such Assertors of Christian Liberty The very titles you assume of Presbyterian or Independent declare that your formal essence consists in an opposition to English protestancy and prelacy You pilfer therefore the name of an English Protestant ut sportulam furunculus to use Tertullians phrase Or rather you are English protestants as Salvian says some in his time were Christians in opprobium contumeliam Christi 7. But you are wise in your generations you know you could do no mischief unless you took a vizard For if you had spoken in your Preface the true Language of a Sectary if directing your speech to English Protestants you had said I Mr. Edward Bagshaw Student of Christ-Church a very Presbyterian or Independent a professed Rebell against the English Church do out of my tender love and care of the welfare and promotion of the said Church give you O English Protestants warning to take heed of Popery for the bringing in of which among you Doctour Gunning and Mr. Thorndike and God knowes how many more are preparing way the Bishops are of intelligence with them and the State connives at them Therefore look to your selves All we can do is to blow the Trumpet and tell you once more how couragiously we will lead you to a thorough Reformation If you have neither zeal for God nor knowledge of your own strength 't is none of our fault Little do you know that we Presbyterians Independents Anabaptists Quakers e. are again become good friends and will joyne together to put down this Antichristian Hierarchy and when we are to divide their lands it will be time to try which of us can get most Now a beater Meane we have not for such a purpose then as formerly we did to cry out Beware of Popery Take heed of your Antichristian Clergy c. 8. If you had unwisely discovered your thoughts with such plainnesse your open dealing would have shewed some sincerity some appearance of the simplicity of the Dove but little of the subtle wisdom of the Serpent a quality much more for your purpose Notwithstanding your vizard being quite worne out your calling your selves English Protestants will not have the effect it had in your former happy dayes twenty years since Your Voice is too well known now not to be Jacobs There is scarce an English subject so ignorant or of so short a memory but can take notice that this was the Old Tune that sounded to a charge and invited them to kill one another for Charities sake and to suffer you know whom to murther the best King that ever reigned before him The difference between the two Brethren in iniquity being only this One did but fight against him and the Other killed him One bound his hand and the other cut off his head They will be so far from startling at the name of Popery out of your mouthes that perhaps they may begin to entertain a better opinion of a Religion so persecuted by you especially remembring that the Papists never separated their interests from the Kings and Theirs but unanimously ventured their lives and estates for them and this purely out of love Duty and conscience even when all they could expect by a victory was to remain still under the penalty of the Laws 9. Therefore a disguise is necessary for you whensoever you would speak except to your own Party in private It had been folly in extremity to say We Presbyterians Independents c. do give you English Protestants warning to beware of your Doctours that would bring in Popery It had been apparently to your own prejudice unless you had said We tell you this who are true Reformed English Protestants of the same Church with you your Pastours who have care of your souls whom you see no man hinders from preaching in your Pulpits and writing Books to Preach to those that cannot hear us in Pulpits If we were enemies would the Civill or Ecclesiastical State think you allow us such a liberty and maintain us at their charges to Preach and Print as we do 10. But I do assure you Mr. Bagshaw you are no English Protestant For what is it to be an English Protestant or a member of the English Church This is a question of greater moment then ordinarily is believed The very subsistence of Protestant Religion in England now depends upon the right stating of it
set pen to Paper to answer you since if you be never so evidently confuted you are excused from yielding by saying you have said a very little but could have said more and Catholicks are forbidden to yield since they have a world of proofs to demonstrat the Infallibility of the Church far more efficacious then these one or two Texts of Scripture called out by you for your best advantage And even these Texts as they are produced and made use of by Catholicks are unanswerable especially to those that think it reasonable to admit that to be the sence of Scripture which all antiquity has given which all protestants and all reasonable men do They could not foresee that there could arise a Disputant so void of reason as Mr. Bagshaw to whom the whole consent of all Ages of the Church all Councils and Fathers appeared light and inconsiderable if compared with his single reason Therefore till you have proved that Ground demonstratively that is turned sand into a Rock you are not in a capacity either to object or answer 6. And to the end you may set upon such a work to some purpose I pray please to enquire out a Book called Exomologesis or Motives of the Conversion c. where your great Lanista Mr. Chillingworths reasons for such a position are pretended to be answered and in an Appendix to that Book You will find an Examination of the Fundamental Grounds of my Lord Faulklands Discourse on that Subject These are the men you brag of in Your Preface as your great Patrons that is indeed such Protestants as you are that lay such grounds as utterly demolish the whole structure of the English church denying that any Authority upon Earth can oblige any man And this very thing I mean the destruction of the Church of England you Preface your self confesse in your Preface to have Preface been the Design of your small Treatise though written against Papists adding that Nothing can be more unreasonable ib. then this that those Churches or Church-Rulers should Lord it over the Faith or conscientious perswasion of other men who are not certain but they may err and be deceived themselves For that would be to take the Pope's Chair and succeed into his room 7. This therefore having been by your self acknowledged your Design I must repeat what I have already said That the English Bishops and Clergy are far more interessed in your Book for all the Title be only against Catholicks then Catholicks are But as to this horrible position of Yours which utterly destroys all Order and peace Let me tell You that to particular Churches and Church-Rulers if they be members of the Catholick Church infallibility is not at all necessary to make their Doctrines or Orders obliging even in conscience Because all their subjects whilest they remain so are bound I do not say to believe internally but not to contradict their declared Doctrines and to submit to their Orders the refusing of either perhaps not damning but certainly excluding the refusers from an outward communion with that Church So that here you plainly exerto Capite tell the World you are no English protestant though perhaps you would fain have an English Benefice and preach against order in English pulpits 8. Now as for that Great Question of the Infallibility of the Church which You consider only as the conceit of some few Catholicks if You have a mind to write any thing to the purpose to prevent Your mistaking if that be a possible thing give a well-wishing friend leave to informe you in general That there is extant no formal Decision of the Church touching her own infallibility Notwithstanding all Catholicks are bound to acknowledge her to be infallible by a necessary consequence of an essential Article of the Creed Which consequence You may conceive to be thus deduced viz. 9. First it is an Article of our Creed Credo unam Sanctam Catholicam Apostolicam Ecclesiam that is I believe one and but One holy Catholick and Apostolick Church By which Article sincerely professed the person declaring himself a Christian signifies a necessity of his being truly a member in Communion with that One Church and consequently renounces all other Congregations and all Ecclesiastical Communion with persons divided from that One Church 10. In the Second Place Your only Guide common sence and reason tells us that a multitude cannot be called One Society except they be joyned and linked together by a Government and Lawes common to all And therefore the whole Catholick Church being indeed one Body as St. Paul sayes and one General Congregation it must necessarily have both general Rulers and Common lawes universally obliging which does not at all hinder but that under and within that general Congregation there may be many distinct Societies enjoying particular Lawes Priviledges and Rulers upon condition they do not contradict nor refuse to submit to the said general Laws Tribunals and Governours 11. Thirdly our Lord having expressly promised to preserve and continue this Church as one Society to the end of the World so as that the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against it it followes undeniably that he has provided sufficient and efficacious means to preserve this unity for otherwise one Article of the Creed might happen to fail 12. In the fourth place since universal Experience both in Humane and Divine matters testifies that never any Writing Law or Science could yet be so expressed but that being left to the wits enlightned Reason and interests of particular men to descant upon them there would follow differences of sences and interpretations and consequently Divisions and separated interests destructive to unity to provide against which the only possible remedy hath alwaies been acknowledged to be the constituting of an External lasting Authority of Judges and Magistrates Hence it is that the Supreme Tribunal of a General Council has evermore hitherto been confessed by all Christians to be the only preservative against a breach in the universal Church and because it cannot alwaies be possible to summon such an Assembly therefore by way of provision the supreme Pastour of the Church hath alwaies exercised in matters that concern the common Faith and Discipline an Authority if not to decide at least to compose and silence all differences in Opinions c. and to put in Execution the Ordinances of precedent Councils 13. Now if You will discourse to any purpose in opposition to this as I know You have a great Tooth against it You must either demonstrate that there is no need at all that controversies should be composed and Schismes healed Or if You cannot do this You must contradict the Experience of all mankind by shewing that Judges are not necessary to end Law-suites that writings alone with enlightned reason will do the business and especially that above all Lawes and Sciences the Holy Scriptures that are in some places infinitely obscure and in plain places compiled in
be pardon'd had you only said I fear or I suspect this But sure there is not any Christian except Mr. Bagshaw whose Religion would allow him to say I hope his Lordship thinks his Book unanswerable that is in effect I hope in God that his Lordship is both an Atheistical Hypocrite professing a Religion contrary to his conscience and withall that his Hypocrisie against the nature of that sin is sencelesly void of all worldly pretentions since he counterfeits a Religion that he knowes is ruinous to his fortunes Is this your Theological vertue of Hope Truly it becomes you well Your Faith Hope and Charity I see are all of a piece 6. It may be you knew some Great Men that for some ends you could permit to strain their consciences so far as to profess a Religion that themselves are able to confute But sure they will be no losers by it whatever becomes of ther souls care shall be taken that their worldly Estate shall thrive by it They will declare for a Sect where money abounds and where power and Offices may be shared That is of all Religions in England they will take heed of the Catholick 7. Indeed if you understood what Catholick Religion is you would never say so much as I suspect c. and if you knew what Christian Religion is you would never have said I hope such an abominable so unreasonable a thing In your Sect I conceive such an Hypocrisie may be practised at a cheaper rate But in Catholick Religion no Man can commit that sin alone it must necessarily be attended with most horrible sacriledge and a solemn profanation of two Sacraments Pennance and the Holy Eucharist Therefore I hope that you have been bold to bely your self when you said I hope his Lordship thinks his Book unanswerable I have a better opinion of you then you desire I should 8. As for the Author of Fiat Lux complained Fiat Lux Epist Deâ—â—â—â—â— of by you to your Honourable Patron in the Epistle Dedicatory where you lay to his charge Blasphemies that you good man tremble to mention If you had sincerely related those passages and were they considered not as standing alone but with the dependance on what is delivered before they will be so far from deserving to be called Blasphemies that no sober charitable Reader will deny them to be simple unstrain'd Truths And if you think good to reply to these papers I here undertake to justifie those passages in the proper true sence that the Author apparently meant them Which that it is no hard matter to do I will shew you presently His first passage related by you is this In my judgment saith he Christ our Lord hath no less shewn his Divinity and power in the Pope then in himself And all things considered I may truly say that Christ in the Pope and Church is more miraculous then in his own person My reason to demonstrate the truth of this which is the Authors too is this because the preservation of the Church in Unity and Truth under the Government of supream Pastours without interruption for sixteen hundred years and more amongst so many tryals and oppositions is a greater effect of a Divine power in Christ then he shew'd in prolonging his own personal life for about thirty three years 9. And as to the second passage viz. That the first great Fundamental of Christian Religion which is the truth and Divinity of Christ had it not been for the Pope had failed long ago in the World So that I may truly say that Christ is the Popes God For if the Pope had not been or had not been so vigilant a Pastor as he is Christ had not been taken now for any such person as he is believed this day Consult your books and the whole Series of Ecclesiastical Story will inform you that the Pope by means of Councels of the Western Church assembled by his Authority was he alone that instrumentally destroy'd Arianisme and other Heresies denying the Divinity of Christ which for some ages had in a manner poyson'd all the East 10. And lastly without much boasting I may with him conclude This I may boldly say and am assured of that if the Pope be not an unerring Guide in affairs of Religion that way I mean that I have shewn him in all ages to have exercised his Guidance by General Councils all is lost For this is no other then what with all Catholicks I have asserted and will positively justifie that the authority of the Church in her supream Tribunals is the only assured means of preserving the Church in Unity as being an Authority from which no Appeals must be admitted that is being Infallible These therefore you see are no such Blasphemies as to put you into a fit of trembling 11. I do now expect Sir unless God inspire more charity into your heart that you will make loud complaints of the presumption of your Roman Catholick adversary for daring to defend his Religion against your evident mistakes and the cause of all his profession from the trayterous imputation of a Dependence on a forreign authority most unjustly by you laid to their charge like the ancient Gladiatour you will accuse us for avoyding your blows and thrusts and because we do not recipere totum gladium But this Confidence is the effect of our Innocence only which as the Scripture says Gives the boldnesse of a lyon Nay it is for your sake if you please however it is for our Countreys sake that we beg no more innocent blood may be laid to its charge But if it must still be spilt we had rather you should be our Executioners than any other We give Almighty God and the Parliament most humble thanks that we have been permitted to wipe off the scandal of Infidelity from our Religion This we triumph in Hereafter if we suffer we call God to witness and the whole Kingdom I mean English Protestants that it will be purely our Conscience our Religion our love of Peace and Unity that we suffer for for all manner of security we have and ever will give of being faithfull quiet good Subjects all Oaths expressing only our obligation to Fidelity or acknowledgment of the Kings temporal Supreamacy we will take Does it not become then such Sufferers to be confident Does it not become such lovers of their Countrey to wish that no more guilt may lye upon it True it is we look upon your party as our Murderers you give us up into their hands you kill us with their swords They are inclin'd to mercy being satisfyed of our Innocency but you threaten to set the Kingdom on fire with your crying out Popery if they spare us We do not expect from his Majesty that for our sakes though his most loyal Subjects he should take upon himself the envy that you would raise against him We beseech him he would not indeed he ought not to do it considering the mischief that
mutually maintain one anothers quarrells On the other side I am not without suspicion that some even of my own belief and Church will think that it did not become a Catholike to busy himself with justifying the writings of protestants especially when he endeavours to shew that such Writers are no Catholicks though the particular points taught by them be real Catholick verities 22. Now to both these I must say that I never had the happiness to know or see either Doctour Gunning or Mr. Thorndike never was there any message or intelligence between us But my only Motive to write as I have done was to comply with that precept of God Pacem veritatem diligite Love peace and Truth As a true faithful English subject I could not see so professed a disturber of peace without reproving him As a catholick I could never hope what I am bound to desire and aim at that both truth and peace would find admittance into England by any endeavours either of Protestants or Catholicks till it was apparent what the true grounds of our separation are and this never will be known till other Sects be made to blush when they impudently and perniciously both to the Church and State call themselves English protestants and pretend to be judges of what is to be esteemed in the English Church Catholick Doctrine 23. Therefore for a conclusion of this argument touching your charge against Dr. Gunning and Mr. Thorndike I will once more protest that unless either the Civil or Ecclesiastical Authority do in time provide against such writers as you the whole Kingdom in a very short space will be in iminent danger to become a mere Babel For if it shall be permitted to such men to defame any English Doctour or Writer that shall not conspire in all the furious positions of Presbyterians Independents c. against the Catholick Church there will not be a Bishop or sober Divine in England that will not be at your mercy both for his fame and subsistence nay his life also when you can either raise a tumult or which is more dreadful a new Tribunal of Justice III. That Mr. Bagshaws attempt to render only the Roman Catholick Subjects in an incapacity of Toleration is in it self most groundless and in his mouth most ridiculously malicious 1. WEE poor Roman Catholicks could not but be strangely surprised to see such a Protestant of the Church of England as you Mr. Bagshaw are to become our Advocat and to beg our pardon saying How ill an opinion soever I have both of the Papists Religion Preface and of the unchristian waies they take to propagate it yet far be it from me to wish that amongst us they may suffer the same hard measure which I know by their Principles they are alwaies ready to inflict For so much do I desire their conversion which can never be sincere unless it be voluntary and unconstrained and so little fear their power of seducing since their greatest strength lies in the ignorance of their followers rather then in the cunning of their guides that I heartily wish all penal Lawes against them were utterly taken away For I never yet saw any Argument that could clearly evince why any sort of men who would profess a peaceable subjection unto the Civil Government might not in all their Civil Rights be protected by it 2. What a kind wish is here and a reason for it truly unanswerable Indeed here is Charity a point too high to be believed sincere Therefore to the end your Charity may be rational do not deprecate the inflicting of all punishment upon any if you can indeed prove that by the Principles of their Religion they are obliged to inflict the like punishment on others As for our Principles we protest unto you they are very innocent in this point Laws indeed have oft been made in Catholick Countries very severe against those that the Church calls Hereticks But they are none of the Churches laws they were not enacted by Ecclesiasticks but by Civil Governours only You know that by the Canons of the Church ever in force the Clergy under penalty of Irregularity are forbidden to have any hand either by Counsel or otherwise in blood And whatsoever Laws have been or shall be made by Catholick Civil Governours especially such as reach to blood if the Motive of them hath been pure Opinions of the Understanding not prejudicial to Government or any thing except a prudent mean to prevent Sedition or Rebellions justly apprehended we assure you they are not made by the Principles of Catholick Religion but against them 3. You will object the Spanish Inquisition But withall be pleased to consider that almost all the Catholick Kingdoms in Europe besides do abhorr the cruelty of that Inquisition and have often declared they will suffer the utmost extremities rather than admit it 4. This Charity of yours therefore was too excessive to be long-liv'd or deserving to be esteem'd sincere for you presently repent and revoke it whilst immediatly after you add I must confess there are two things which do much difference the case of the Papists from that of any other Religious Sect Preface this day in the World and which renders the Toleration of them very unsafe if not unwarrantable 5. How was it possible for one that wrote this cruel passage not presently to blot out what with the same ink he had written immediatly before The King and State are little beholding to you when you wish that may be done which is both very unsafe and unwarrantable and besides that may be done for Roman Catholicks which you say are the only Religous Sect in the World which it is both very unsafe and unwarrantable to tolerate you except not even the Fifth-Monarchists whose Religion forbids subjection to all Civil Governours whatsoever and commands by Fire and Sword to erect their new spiritual Kingdom of Christ which is to last a thousand years Let but Papists be excluded and all the monsters of Egypt are welcom to Mr. Bagshaw Yet he must know that if there had been no Papists in the World no other Sect among us had ever heard of Christ Behold the mercies of a Presbyterian or Independent I know not whether how cruel they are 6. And all this he writes to prevent the benignity of Protestants which he suspects may in some measure be extended as well to Roman Catholicks that suffered with them as to his own party that still grieve they had not swallowed up both He forgets what a converted criminal as if it were some honest Anabaptist or Quaker one that had been but now is no longer a murderer and seditious person said to his obdurat companion Dost thou not fear God since thou art in the same condemnation And we indeed justly But these Men what have they done But we should not much apprehend that his perswasion should prevail with persons that sure should now know us both were it not that
to justify In the year 1651. a devout Italian Friar being appointed to preach in the Great Dome at Padua the Archbishop present and having been informed that among his Auditors there were some English Protestants that in discourse had earnestly objected as you do Idolatry to Catholicks He therefore that he might occur to such a scandal made choice of the Doctrine concerning Images for the subject of a great part of his sermon And when he came to that point holding in his hand a Crucifix he told his hearers That that Image did in one glance lively represent even to the most ignorant beholder our Lord Jesus God and Man and almost all the circumstances of his most bitter and accursed death so patiently and willingly suffered for us Thereupon with great passion and Rhetorick he magnified the Love of our Lord hanging on the Cross earnestly pressing his hearers to return a proportionable Love and Duty to him And during this discourse he often with great reverence and tenderness of affection embraced and devoutly kissed the Crucifix Having said much to this purpose after a little pause he pursued his Discourse telling them he could not believe or suspect that any one that had heard and seen what he had said and done could reasonably imagine that he had any intention to dishonour our Lord by that which he had done to the Crucifix which represented him much less that he adored it as if he thought it a kind of God that he put his trust in it as expecting any good from it as if he knew not what Divinity Vertue or Sanctity was in that carved piece of wood Notwithstanding because he had heard that such a scandalous imputation was by some misperswaded persons laid on the Church he would then and there undeceive them Thereupon he spit upon the Crucifix threw it scornfully to the ground and trampled it under his feet 36. You see Mr. Bagshaw what kind of Idolaters the Papists are Against this Idolatry let us see what express Scripture you can produce This is the great crime for which there can be no expiation but oppressions emprisonments and Gallowses Now if what hath been here said give you no satisfaction in case you have a mind to reply do not practice your old way of snatching a phrase or expression out of a single Authour a Schoolman or Controvertist and making the whole Church answerable for one mans indescretion But search what the Church her self has declared in the Council of Trent and dispute against that as well as you can and be assured you shall either be answered or else told that you are unconquerable IV. VI. That Mr. Bagshaw's whole Discourse against the Churches Infallibility is nothing to the purpose 1. HItherto of your Preface Now I come to your book which truly will afford very little businesse And in grosse concerning your grave Discourse I must tell you That if you would be as merciful to our Estates and our Lives as You are to this our fundamental Doctrine we should find You a a very commodious Adversary For notwithstanding all your blustring You have not given this Doctrine one blow that smarts at all But God bless us from Your Swords and Your Sermons 2. The Title of your book is The great Question about the Infallibility of the Pope and Church of Rome This Question you undertake to determine We are likely to have good stuff in a Book that mistakes the subject to be discoursed on You should not have said The great Question about c. but Two Questions the one a great one about the Infallibility of the Roman Catholick Church which if it be disproved destroys the foundation of that Church the other a very little question about the Popes personal infallibility in which the Church it self is not concerned at all but only Cardinal Bellarmine and a few Writers zealous for that Court. And when you had said this in all reason having a design to triumph over Roman Catholicks you ought not to have said a word about this little trifling unconcerning Question but have bent all your forces against that Great one which was only to the purpose 3. But You very wisely have spent your whole book upon it only though a subject that You your self in your Preface confess is not yet decided in the Schools amongst learned men which is as much as to say no Catholick is obliged to maintain and consequently no Protestant needs trouble himself about it Nay moreover you say the two Councils of Basil and Constance and in your Book the sixth General Council have vertually decided the contrary having preferred the Authority of a Council above the Pope which therefore may reverse his decisions and actually condemned a Pope of Heresie you might have added the seventh and eighth General Councils which ratifyed the same condemnation and to them You might have joyned Pope Agathon the successour of Pope Honorius that was condemned and his Successours Pope Leo the second and the rest till Pope Adrian the second who lived in the time of the eighth Council 4. Why do You write Books Mr. Bagshaw so confessedly to no purpose at all And why do you trouble your self about a subject that the Authour whom you pretend to confute cannot himself believe what ever opinion or suspition he may have of it For no Catholick can be said to believe any thing as a Christian Verity merely upon discourse of Reason or probable deduction from Scripture but only when such a verity appears either expressly contained in the Bible or is formally decided by a General Council or received by unquestionable Tradition of the Church Now it is apparent even out of Bellarmine himself that none of these wayes the Popes Infallibility has been confirmed Nay more Never yet has any Pope declared that himself is Infallible But you are wise in the midst of folly You write out of all danger of being confuted because no body thinks himself touched so that you have an easie and cheap triumph of it Notwithstanding by your own example I do much doubt your Honourable patron by whose command You say You wrote finds not Epist Dedic his expectation answered if he did expect any great matter and I am sure being very knowing and wise he will not believe that as you brag you have killed the Enemy having left no Argument unanswered since evidently you have mistaken your enemies person through your whole book excepting only the two last leaves where obiter and in answer to an Objection supposed to be made by moderate and ingenuous Papists you make an offer to speak de tribus capellis that is the Pope's being infallible not in himself but in and with a Councill which though it be the only matter in question you call only a Conceit of which you will speak a little and you keep your word you say very little and that little to no purpose at all 5. Therefore to what purpose should any Catholick