whome the papistes counte no parte of their church but schismatikes conuerted the Moscouites first of all vnto the profession of the name of Christ which yet continue in their religion being neither the true faith nor yet popish religion As for the popish church as it is certeine that it hath peruerted and corrupted all partes of the Latine or Westerne Church with Idolatry and false religion so it shal be harde for the papistes to proue that it hath conuerted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion except some partes of Germanie and them by force of armes rather than by preaching and reaching as appeareth by the conuersion of Liuonia Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I haue shewed that our Church holding the true doctrine of the Apostles is that which conuerted all nations to true religion and that the popish church hath not conuerted any people to true religion nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ this chalenger whosoeuer he be do the recant The second article conteyneth 4. demandes 1 I aske of him what Church it was which hath induced the Christian people through the whole worlde to geue most humble credit in all points to the holy bookes of the Byble I Aunswere it was the Church of Christ and not the Popish church which hath commended the bookes of holy Scripture to be beleued of all true Christians where soeuer they be although it be the office of the holy Ghost to open the hartes of men and to forme them that they may beleue the scripture to be true like as it is the office of the scripture or worde of God to trie and examine whether it be the spirite of God that perswadeth vs to beleue any thing so the spirite beareth witnesse to the worde and the worde to the spirite As for the popish church it coulde not induce the Christian people to geue credit to the scripture in all pointes because she is contrarie to the scripture in many pointes and euen in the cheefest pointes of Christian Religion namely in pointes concerning the glorie of God and the saluation of mankinde geuing the glory of God to dead men and dumbe Images and denying the mercy of God pourchased by the onely sacrifice of Christes death to be the onely cause of mans saluation Finally seeing it is manifest by the aunswere to the first article that the popish church did not conuerte all nations to the profession of the Christian faith it is euident thereby that the popish church did not induce all them that are called Christians to geue credit to the bookes of the holy Bible as this chalenger woulde haue it to be thought 2 VVhat Church hath had the discerning seuering of them from other writinges of all sortes THe Church of Christ hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse bookes of the scripture but a iudgment to discerne true writinge from counterfaicts the word of God of infallible verity from the writing of men which might erre this iudgement she hath not of her selfe but of the holy Ghost as for the popish Church it can not be said to haue this iudgemēt of discerning the scripture of God from other writings not only because she is so blind that she can not discerne betwene the Canonical bookes of the scripture from the Apocrypha writings as appereth by receauing the bookes of the Machabees Ecclesiasticus c. to be of equall authoritie with the bookes of the Law Psalmes c. but also because she is so presumptuous as to compel men to beleue that Customes and traditions writinges of doctors decrees of Popes and Councells are equall with the authoritie of God his worde yea are of force to alter and change the lawe of God and the institution of Christ set forth vnto vs in the scripture And although she boast that she receaueth all the bookes of scripture yet this proueth no more that she is the Church of Christ than was the churches of the Arrians Donatistes Nouatians Euthychans other heretikes which receiued the Bible as well as the Popish church 3 VVhat Church hath had the custodie of them and most safely hath preserued them for the necessary vse of God his people and from the corruption of aduersaries as well of Iewes as heretikes of all sortes THe prouidence of God hath alwayes preserued the Scripture both from the violence of tyrants from the falshoode of heretikes and hath neuer suffred the true Church to be destitute of the necessarie vse thereof But the popish church hath not kept the scripture for the necessary vse of the people which hath so kept it in an vnknowen tongue that the people coulde haue no vse much lesse the necessary vse thereof wherefore if this be a note of the Catholike Church to kepe the worde of God for the necessarie vse of God his people it is plaine that the popish church is not the Catholike Church which hath kept the scripture so that God his people coulde haue no vse thereof And if the only custodie of the scripture from corruption of heretikes be a sure note of the Church why is not the Greeke Church the Catholike Church which vnto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church why are not other Estern Churches of Asia which neuer acknowledged the Pope or popish religion true Churches which likewise haue preserued the scripture as we haue seen of late that the newe Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue at themperours charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them And finally why are not the Iewes the Catholike Church which haue kept the old Testament in Hebrue more faithfully than euer the Papistes And because they boast of safe preseruing of the scriptures all men that are learned in the tongues can testifie in how corrupt a Latin translation they haue kept the scriptures both of the olde and of the new Testament 4 And let the Protestant declare to me that their Congregation hath had from time to time or euer had right herein or any other Church sauing the Catholike Church and I recant OVr Congregation which is the body of Christ hath euer had both right and possession of the inestimable treasure of the word of Christ her heade as appeareth by this that our Church and Congregation beleueth nothing but that she learneth in it acknowledgeth that all thinges profitable to saluation are sufficiently conteined in it and finally in all thinges submitteth her selfe to the iudgemēt of it But the popish church which beleueth many thinges contrarie to the scripture teacheth many thinges beside the scripture necessary to saluation and refuseth to haue her faith doctrine and ceremonies to be iudged by the scripture neither hath neither euer had any right to the scripture though she haue neuer so many bookes of them in possession Wherefore these thinges considered this chalenger
doth recant The third article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 Shew me why our common knowen Church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteyned in the same THere may be diuers good reasons shewed why your Church commonly knowen to be the church of Antichrist did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteined therein First because she coulde not the copies thereof being so many by the prouidence of God dispersed throughout the worlde Secondly because she thought it not so needefull hauing other meanes to worke her deuilish deuise For although she coulde not corrupt the scripture yet it made the lesse matter because she founde meanes to diminish and controll the authority therof by aduancing decrees of men Popes and Councells to be equall or of greater authoritie than the scripture Thirdly because she woulde be lesse in feare to be reproued by the scripture she prouided that the knowledge thereof shoulde be hidden from the vnlearned people by a strange tongue and from the learned by the tedious mazes of questions deuised by her Canonistes and Sententiaries Fourthly because she submitted all interpretation of the scripture to her owne iudgement and therefore woulde not be controlled by the iudgement thereof but woulde alwayes expound it as it liked her best As appeareth by Ockam and Duns who though they confesse that transubstantiation seemeth to them contrary to the scripture and reason yet they beleued it because of the authoritie of the church and for none other cause These are the reasons why the Romish church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testamēt as the true Religion And yet how corrupt that Latine translation is which they woulde needes thrust vpō vs is sufficiently knowen to all learned men euen in such texts as are the most coulerable places for the defence of Popish doctrine I will geue one example for all They alleage the text 1. Cor. 10. Qui stat videat ne cadat He that standeth let him take heede he fall not against the certainetie of faith whereas the Greeke hath not he that standeth but he that thinketh he standeth let him take heede he fall not Thus the popish church cannot altogether excuse her selfe from corrupting of the text of the Testament whether it was of fraude or of ignorance or of negligence the Lorde knoweth 2 Shew me why she kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe BEcause it was against her owne estimation and profit which are the chiefe endes for which popish Prelates mainteyne popish religion Take away the Popes prerogatiue which is contrary to the sense of God his word downe goe Cardinalls Legates Prothonotaries downe goeth all the Court of Rome take away workes of supererogation which are contrary to the Scripture downe goe Abbeys Priories and Chantries Take away the sacrifice of the Masse Purgatory which are contrary to the word of God downe goeth the estimation and gaynes of all the popish clergie And this is the cause why the popish church kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe although she preserued not the word it self in such safetie as becommed the Church of Christ. 3 Shew me why we should beleue the Papistes as you terme them for the word it self and rather you Protestants thā them for the meaning of the word WE doe not chalenge credit to our selues in any poynt so presumptuously as the Papistes that men must beleue it because we affirme it But because we proue it to be true by the worde of god And therefore for the meaning of the word you should beleue vs rather than them because our groundes proues are better then theirs or else we require not to be beleued better than they 4 Shew me why you beleued our Church telling you this to be God his booke will not credit her auouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke IF we had no better ground to perswade vs of the authoritie of God his booke than the testimony of your Church you may be sure we would not beleue it But because we haue most stedfast assurance of God his spirite for the authority of that booke with the testimony of the true Church in all ages If you say it is God his booke we beleue you not because you say so but because we know it to be true But if you bring out a false sense we beleue you not because we know it to be false are able to proue by the word of God that it is contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghost To be plaine with you we geue as much credit to your Church as to the deuill When the deuill sayth it is written He shall giue his angells charge ouer thee and with their handes they shall hold thee vp that thou dash not thy foote against a stone We beleue that this is the worde of god But when he auoucheth this to be the meaning of it that we may cast downe our selues from a Church steeple without daunger we doe not beleue him because we know this sense is contrary to an other Scripture which sayth Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So when you say these wordes are the Scripture of God This is my body We beleue it because we knowe it to be true But when you say this is the meaning of these wordes This bread is turned into my naturall bodye we beleue you not because it is contrary to all places of Scripture which proue the trueth of Christ his humanitie or naturall body Thus I shewe you why we beleue you if you say the Scripture is God his word namely because we know it to be true why we beleue you not saying this is the meaning of it that is because we knowe by the word of God that it is false 5 Last of all Shew me why you beleued the olde known church affirming this to be the word of God and will not beleue her affirming Luther to be an heretike shew me good reason or Scripture for these thinges and I recant IF you meane by the olde Church the primitiue Church whose testimony of the word of God we allow beleue I deny that the primitiue Church did affirme Luther to be an heretike or the doctrine that he taught which we hold to be heresie but I am able to proue that the primitiue Church from which you haue receiued the Scripture affirmeth your doctrine to be heresie your Church the Church of Antichrist But if by the old knowne Church you meane the Church of old knowne to be the Church of Antichrist which is the popish church we beleue the deuill if he speake the trueth and we beleue not an Angell comming from heauen if he bring any other Gospel than S. Paule deliuered to the Galathians Therefore when your
Idolatrie proueth that there is a God but Idolatry is not therefore the true worship of god Of the heresie of the Pharisies that helde Pythagoras opinion of the passing of one soule into diuers bodies may be concluded the immortalitie of the soule but this doth not iustifie that errour of the Pharisies by the heresy of Origines which taught that all men should be saued at length not onely the immortalitie of the soule and the resurrection but also the infinite mercy of God may be concluded which all are true articles yet was not the heresie of Origine true for all this vnlesse M. Allen hath forgotten that olde sophisme which children can solute who so euer sayth you are an asse sayth you are a lyuing creature but he that sayth you are a liuing creature sayth true therefore who so euer sayth you are an asse sayth true And such for all the worlde is M. Allens reason who so confesseth prayers for the deade confesseth that the deade doe liue and shall rise againe but he that confesseth that the dead doe liue and shall rise againe doth not erre therefore he that confesseth prayers for the deade doth not erre 2 But now their aunswere must be here that this booke by which I haue vrged them so farre shall be no scripture And this is the ishue of heresie lo. These men that lightly writh wreast Gods worde from all true meaning to the maintenaunce of their matter being further charged by euidence of the wordes when other conuenient shifte can not be founde they are driuen to refuse vtterly the sacred canonicall scripture of God for notwithstanding their perpetuall bragges of scripture yet there can no scripture holde them but they will either finde a fonde shifte to loose it or els a shamefull stoutnes vtterly to brast and breake it They first seeke by suttelty to vnfasten the bonde of Gods trueth which is euery waye so enwrapped with the testimonies of holy Scripture then as they can not worke by wiles they boldely brast the bandes in sonder Thus when for misconstruing of this plane assertion of the booke of Machabees they can conuey no fit meaning they are driuen to harde shiftes and vnsemely to deny the whole booke to be scripture and therefore in matters of question of no authority In which pointe the authoritie of the Iewes moueth them more in denying the bookes to be in the canon of Gods scripture then the decree of the holy Church for the approuing of the same to be scripture But S. Hierome though he confesse the Iewes not to allowe them yet is bolde to recken them amongest the bookes of the holy Histories not measuring their authority by the canon of the Hebrues but by the rule of Christian councells The Canons of the Apostles will chalenge them from the Iewes and heretikes to be scripture still Innocentius the first in his rehersall of diuine bookes numbreth these of the histories of the Machabees also the Councell of Carthage the third authorisheth them S. Augustine in his bookes De doctrina Christiana numbring all canonicall scriptures with the reste reciteth these also Of which bookes in the xviij of the Citie of God he thus further testifieth Ab hoc tempore apud Iudaeos restituto templo non reges sed principes fuerunt vsque ad Aristobulum quorum supputatio temporum non in scripturis sanctis quae Canonicae appellantur sed in alijs inuenitur in quibus sunt MachabaeoruÌ„ libri quos non Iudaei sed Ecclesia pro canonicis habet From this time he meaneth after the history of Esdras there was no kinges but chiefe gouernours after the restitutioÌ„ repaire of the temple till Aristobulus time of all which time there is no Chronikle nor couÌ„te in the scriptures which be Canonicall but in other that be extant we finde that supplied as in the bookes of Machabees which bookes although the Iewes do not yet the Church of God counteth for canonicall scripture But what shoulde we stande in this point the whole Church of God and euery part or prouince thereof euery learned doctour and vertuous Christian man hath receiued and allowed them for scripture the which constant and perpetuall iudgement of the Church of Christ if any man refuse let him be esteemed an Ethnike Or because he defendeth the Iewes authority against the determination of Christes Churâ—h let him be at this time accompted for a iewe And yet I thinke he ouer shooteth them herein for they confesse the history to be true although not holy Scripture neither haue they found any such errour of doctrine therein conteined as he doth And as for the auncient Christian writers and famous doctours they alleage euen that place to proue the lawefull prayer for Christian soules departed whereby these fellowes take occasion to saie it is no scripture at all As godly Damascenus in these wordes Scitis enim quid dicat scriptura quomodo Iudas ille Machabaeus in Syon Ciuitate regis magni vt cognouit populum sibi subiectum à Palestinis hostibus occisum scrutatione facta inuenta idola in sinibus corum statim pro vnoquoque eorum ad dominum qui ad misericordiam facilis paratus est munera propitiatoria obtulit sane ob summam religionem fraternamque charitatem in hoc facinore vt in omnibus alijs a diuinissima scriptura magnificus admirabilis habebatur You know sayth he what the scripture reporteth how that worthy Iudas Machabeus of Syon the City of the great kinge after he vnderstood certeine of his subiectes to haue bene slaine of the Palestines his enemies and search being made had founde in their lappes idols straight wayes offered to God who is much inclined to mercy for euery of his souldiars so slaine propitiatory oblations â–ª who suerly for that act as proceding of wonderfull religion and brotherly loue and in all other affaires is of the holy writte esteemed mighty and meruelous Longe before this writer did S. Augustine vse the same booke and text of Machabees to proue the prayers sacrifice for the departed in peace In the booke of Machabees sayth he we reade that sacrifice was offered for the deade But if it were in none of the olde scriptures reade at all yet the authority of the vniuersall Church which for this point is plaine were of no small force whereby it is prouided that in the prayers which be made at the altare by the priest to our Lorde God the commemoration of the deade shall haue their place Thus by these auncient authors both the bookes be approued the text it selfe for which our aduersaries vnworthely denied the booke alleaged for the same purpose and the doctrine so sure that if no scripture coulde be founde it would beare out it selfe against all falsehood But this doctor handleth Pelagius the heretique denying the booke of VVisdome to be scripture because there was a sentence out of the fourth Chapter thereof brought
against his wicked doctrine euen as he shoulde be and as these wranglers in the like case must be The place well marked shal serue our turne when so euer we heare them so impudently reiect scriptures because they impugne their heresies which els shoulde be as good scriptures as any booke of the Bible if they either woulde make with them or by any crafty colouring not plainely make against them Thus he sayth Nec ideo liber Sapientiae qui tanta numerositate annorum legi meruit in ecclesia Christi pati debet iniuriam quoniam resistit eis qui pro meritis hominum falluntur rursus omnibus hic liber tractatoribus anteponendus quoniam sibi cum anteposuerunt etiam temporibus Apostolorum proximi egregij tractatores qui eum testem adhibentes nihil se adhibere nisi diuinum testimonium crediderūt in English thus It is no reason that the booke of VVisdom which so many worlde 's together hath bene worthy the reading in the Church of Christ shoulde nowe receiue such wrong at our handes because it plainely resisteth these fellowes that exalt mans merites aboue Gods grace And againe this booke is of more authority then all the expositours in the worlde for the noble writers hard by the Apostles time did much preferre this booke before them selues who alleaging the testimony of that scripture doubted not but they vsed thereby the witnesse of Gods holy word Euen so must we tell our maisters that it were plaine wrong to discredit the history of the Machabees which hath bene in our Bible euer sith Christes time for holy Scripture because it hath an euident testimonie against their false belefe concerning the state of the soules departed which booke is not onely better to be beleued then all Caluins false gloses but of more authority then all holy expositors Out of which booke both S. Augustine others many haue vsed proofe of their matters as of the testimonie of Sacred and holy scripture 2 I will not gaine saye but who so denyeth the authority of the holy Scriptures thereby bewrayeth him selfe to be an heretike as all Papistes doe which I will proue afterwarde But he that admitteth for scripture that which is not proceded from the spirite of God and thereby will auouch for trueth that which is contrary to the vndoubted worde of God is no lesse heretike then he for it is all one sinne to adde to the worde of God and to take from it But M. Allen pretending to proue the booke of Machabees canonicall by authority of the Church when he can not by consent that it hath with the scriptures of God beginneth with the authority of Hieronym in prol Mach. But what he meaneth thereby or what place he noteth I know not But this I knowe that in his Preface vpon the booke of kinges he doth not onely omit it in rehersall of the canonicall bookes but also accompteth it plainely among the Apocryphall Next he alleageth the canons of the Apostles Wise canons I promise you as truely made by the Apostles as the double canons that lie on the tower hyll of London In which are rehersed 3. bookes of Machabees two Epistles of Clemens for canonicall scripture but the Apocalypse of S. Iohn hath no place at all by which it may appeare what Apostles they were that made that canckred canon Then followeth the prouinciall Councell of Carthage the third which nameth the 2. bookes of the Machabees amonge the canonicall scriptures euen as it doth the 5. bookes of Salomon whereas the Church alloweth but 3. namely the Prouerbes the preacher and the Canticles and although you shoulde numbre to these the booke of Wisdome yet can you make but 4. in all that we know of Againe in what sence they did call those bookes canonicall appereth by Augustine that was one of that Councell namely that they maye be reade so it be with iudgement Contra 2. Gaudentij epistolam lib. 2. cap. 23. Et hanc quidem scripturam quae appellatur Machabaeorum non habent Iudaei sicut legem Prophetas Psalmos quibus dominus testimonium perhibet tanquam testibus suis dicens oportet impleri omnia quae scripta sunt in lege prophetis in psalmis de me Sed recepta est ab ecclesia non inutiliter si sobriè legatur audiatur And this scripture of the Machabees the Iewes compte not as the lawe and the prophetes and the Psalmes to whome our Lorde geueth testimony as to his witnesses saying it behoued that all thinges should be fulfilled that were written of me in the lawe and in the Prophetes and in the Psalmes But it is receiued of the Church not vnprofitably if it be soberly reade and harde Here you see that Augustine howsoeuer he alloweth those bookes yet he alloweth them not in full authority with the lawe Prophetes and Psalmes nor with out condition of sobriety in the reader or hearer But Hieronym sayth plainely the Church receiueth them not as canonicall scriptures in his preface vpon the booke of Prouerbes Sicut ergo Iudith Tobiae Machabaeorum libros legit quidem ecclesia sed eos inter canonicas scripturas non recipit Sic haec duo volumina legat ad aedificationem plaebis non ad authoritatem ecclesiasticorum dogmatum confirmandam Therefore euen as the Church readeth in deede the bookes of Iudith Tobias and Machabees but yet receiueth them not among the canonicall scriptures so maye she reade these 2. bookes videlicet Ecclesiasticus and the booke of Wisdome falsely intitled to Salomon for the edification of the people but not to confirme the authority of ecclesiasticall opinions Thus if Augustine doe simply allowe these bookes you haue Hieronym that doth simply refuse them If Augustine saye the Church receiueth them for canonicall Hieronym sayth the Church receiueth them not for canonicall As for Damascene except you woulde stryue with numbre of witnesses I know not why you alleage him being one to whose iudgement as but a late writer in comparison you know we ascribe small credit I might produce against him Athanasius or at leste wise one of elder time then Damascene vnder the name of Athanasius but that I haue alleaged already is sufficient to represse that vaine and vnskilfull insultation that you vse in so many wastfull wordes against vs for refusing the authority of him that abridged Iason the Cyrenians bookes for canonicall scriptures 3 But our aduersary learned not this practise of Pelagius onely for it is an older sore and a common sicknesse to all deuisers of deuilish doctrine as the skillfull in the Churchies affaires may acknowledge For some there were that otherwise coulde not vpholde heresy but by the vtter deniall of all the olde Testament as Carpocrates Ceuerus Manicheus But Marcion and Cerdon reiect all together sauyng Lukes Gospel Now Cerinthus and Ebion make counte of none of all the Euangelicall histories but the Gospell of Matthewe Cerinthus againe and Seuerus
woulde haue robbed the Church of the actes of the Apostles A sect called Alogiani do refuse the Gospell of S. Iohn with the Apocalypse Martine illiricus Caluine and their companions that no man being but an heretique shoulde euer out pricke them will shoulder with the proudest and lifte out of our Bibles the bookes of Machabees with S. Iames Epistle and more when more nede requireth The which Epistle as also the Epistles of Iohn and Iudas were once doubted of not as conteining any matter wherof the trueth was vncertaine but as bookes not knowen to be of like force as canonicall scripture in the impugning of heresies or confirming articles of belefe as all workes be till Gods Church haue published their authority and declared all thinges in them conteined to be of the same credit that the spirite of God is and of Gospell like trueth And by that authority of the Church what booke so euer be allowed though it was not so taken before yet now we must needes accept it sicut vere est verbum Dei as the very word of god And so be these canonicall Epistles and bookes of Machabees as before is declared Here nowe euery man may learne that it is a very daungerous matter to geue lesse credit to any of these bookes or wauer in any point of faith written in them for such fellowes iudgements that nowe amongest them haue lefte vs neither olde nor newe Testament Such stubborne boldenesse had these willfull men in mainteinaunce of mischeuous doctrine VVhose open impudencie was counted handsome conueiaunce of their scholers and adherents which were very many notwithstanding the Catholike Christian men in all ages both meruailed and lamented their blindnesse And yet doubtlesse it is not much to be wondered at to see that man flatly forsake the scripture of God who is not abashed to refuse and condemne that sense and vnderstanding of the Scripture which the whole Church with all her learned men haue euer allowed and counted most holy VVell by the strength of this piller we haue chalenged and saued hitherto for all the barking of bandogges the Scripture of God with the knowne meaning thereof And so I trust we shall doe still from the new aduersaries by the assured promise of thassistance of Gods holy spirite which shall leade vs not onely to the true canonicall Scriptures with the sense of the same but also guide vs in all truth necessary for our saluation Let euery man therefore here take heede how he doubteth of the knowne and certayne sense that the Church of Christ by decree of councell or consent of doctors applyeth to any Scripture least by mistrusting the sayd sense he goe forward vnaduisedly from open deniall of the common to found a priuate meaning of his owne in the stubborne defense whereof when he shall against the truth malipertly stand he goeth vnluckely forward at the end blasphemously reiecteth the blessed word sacred Scripture of God as we haue proued the auncient enemies of truth to haue done and as in these new sect maisters we may to our great dolour see Yet loe euen these are they that in all ages as Vincentius sayth flye in their talke and teaching ouer the law the prophets the Psalmes the Gospell That cry out of pottes pulpits nothing but Gods word the booke of the Lorde the testament of Iesus Christ Paule scripture as it may be supposed and as in th ende it is proued to driue out of doores Paule Scripture Testament and Christ too and not to bring into the peoples heades or heartes the feare and loue of God the holsom precepts of Paules heauenly preaching nor the true meaning of any Scripture VVho being vrged will rather credit a minstrells ballat then the Machabeis or best booke in the Bible But now you may see that whiles these men thought to saue their credits by miscrediting the Scripture they haue wrought so wisely that they haue lost their owne credits both in this poynt and in all other for euer And as they hoped by deniall of Scripture to cloke their errour they haue wonne to them selues the property of an heretike by open shew of their owne folly 3 And euen as vaine friuolous is this discourse that followeth to shew what bookes of scripture were in olde time refused by what heretikes But you thinke to match vs with them for denying the Machabees where vnto you adde the Epistle of S. Iames. If Martine and Illyricus haue some times doubted of that Epistle they are not the first that doubted of it Eusebius sayth plainely it is a counterfect Epistle lib. 2. cap. 23. And yet he was not accompted an heretike I saye not this to excuse them that doubt of it for I am perswaded they are more curious then wise in so doing but whereas you ioine Caluine with them it is because you can not leaue to lye with out shame while you are an instrument to defend diuelish errors with out shewe of trueth For Caluine receiueth it defendeth it expoundeth it and in all his writings allegeth it as canonical scripture Therefore if he were as ill as you compt him yet it were shame to lye on the deuill But we shall not nede to â—ake among the olde heresies to finde what bookes of holy Scripture you Papistes refuse when it is an easy matter to take your owne confessions and bolde assertions by which it is manifest that you doe not as those heretikes which you name reiect some one or two bookes but the whole authority of all the canonicall scriptures For when you affiâ—me that no booke of holy Scripture is canonicall but so farre forth as your Church will allow it who seeth not that you doe abrogate all maiestie and authoritie from the word of God submitting it to the iudgements of men Moreouer when you will not admit any sence of the scripture but such as your Church wil allow although the same be contrary to the plaine wordes thereof what authority doe you leaue to the worde of God which you make to be but a dead lettre vntil you geue it such a sence as it pleaseth you Finally where you make decrees of men either priuate or common customes traditions vnwritten verities in which is no certainety at all not onely equiualent but also oftentimes superior to the auctority of holy scriptures what certainety credit or estimation doe you leaue to the scriptures of God aboue other writinges nay all other writinges are in better case then the scriptures are with you For other writings may be compted the workes of their authors with out your censure the holy Scripture may not be compted the worde of God except you list so to allow it which may as well refuse that which is Gods worde in deede as you receiue and obtrude that which is not the worde of God at all Other writings haue such sence as the authors haue expressed them selues in their workes and maye be gathered by their wordes The
membres of our common body and howe being practised by one it serueth before God for an other either in this life or the next our holy father Athanasius by his authoritie might well be a proofe sufficient but he is content to declare it vnto vs by an example and such an example that beside the matter may further put vs in remembraunce of the deuotion of our elders in an other point which the studious reader may marke by the waye thus then he sayth Quod in pauperes collocatur beneficiuÌ„ omnis bonae retributionis est augmentum Itaque pro defuncto oblaturus eundem serues scopum quem qui pro paruulo filio adhuc imbecillo infante interim dum puer aegrotat affert ceram oleum thimiama in templum Domini magna fide acceÌ„dit pueri nomine neque enim puer hoc faceret cum ignoret diuinae regenerationis constitutiones Sic cogitet etiam eum qui in domino morteÌ„ obijt posse offerre ceram oleum caetera quae in redemptioneÌ„ offerri soleÌ„t The benefit bestowed vpon the poore is a soueraigne ground of Gods rewarding And in thy oblations for the departed haue alwaies the same inteÌ„t scope that a father hath practising for the recouery of his sicke child being yong tender VVho for his sick son bringeth into the Church of our Lord God waxe oyle incense and with deuotion and faith lighteth them in the boyes behalfe for that the child him selfe being wholy vnskillful â—f the ordinauncies of our Christianity would neuer go about any such thinge euen so must a man thinke of the deceased persons case that he may doth offer as in an other maÌ„s person waxe oyle such like as coÌ„monly for redeÌ„ptioÌ„ are offered VVith proofe of our matter in hande here may be noted beside the vsuall oblation of thinges apperteining to the mainteinaunce of Church light and lampes setting vp of tapers of singular deuotion for sicke persons representing of our goods and Gods creatures from prophane vse of daily occupation to Gods honour in the temple the vndoubted hope that all faythfull people had as well to procure fauour to them selues thereby as mercy to other for whose sakes they did it and especially that in this mans age that was so auncient these tokens of loue and duety towardes our Lorde and shew of their homage by such externall actes were taken as peculiar ordinauncies and solemne constitutions of our Christianitie These thinges though the hedge of my cause forceth me to let them lightly passe yet as I go by I must needes beholde as steppes of olde maners with some mourning to say the trueth and no litle sorow in the contrary comparing of our corrupte conditions The reader as he list may perchaunce with more leasure or at leaste with lesse iniury to other weye the wonderfull waste that sinne and heresie hath wrought in our dayes of darknesse And wheÌ„ he considereth these thinges that be now of most men counted meere madnesse to haue bene liked allowed preached auouched sent out in solemne workes and writings to the vewe of the world and the sight of all posterity from the very heart spring of the ChristiaÌ„ Church by Athanasius the great O Lord what a mighty man in worde and worke do I nowe name him do I name whose memory is blessed in Gods Church in whose lappe our weeryed mother once before as she hath bene often in a maner learned to take her rest from the forsaken children whose only worde with out all proofe though he neuer speaketh but with weight of reason woulde beare ouer all these pety Protestantes put together so said Tully comparing the Epicures with Plato and Aristotle much more bouldly may I payse all heretiques in the worlde with this mans onely worde Him therefore such a man and so great a pillor of faith when the Catholike shall see proue and allow and practise those same thinges which our maisters of sectes can not abide but most abhorre and by him take a sure taste of his whole time shal he not wounder with all wise men at our downefall so deepe shall he not meruaile vnder one name of Christianitie that goeth yet common to our dayes with those happy times past to be such diuersitie of case and conditions that the one vnder so glorious a name must be nothing else but a cloked paganisme but yet I woulde not he shoulde occupie ouermuch his minde in this consideration till he see the whole ranke of Gods holy host and all the blessed bande of Martyrs and Sainctes stande with vs for the full defense of trueth and the common Church their mother and ours 4 The laste parte of this Chapter hath a boysterous bragge of two great doctors authorities Gregory Nyssene Athanasius the great but they stande both vppon either the credit or iudgement of Damascene neither of which we esteeme so much that we neede greatly regarde them Counterfecting was so common in those dayes and before them to maintaine such errors as coulde not be proued by scripture For to passe ouer that which Tertullian writeth in his booke de Baptismo of the priest of Asia which was conuicted to haue fayned certaine writings of S. Paule to Tecta was not the Nycene Councel the first and the best corrupted with counterfect canons by the Byshoppes of Rome to maintaine their vsurped authoritie in the dayes of S. Augustine which was plainely espied and confuted in the Councell of Carthago 6. cap. 4. 7. And in the Africane Councell were there not three faulse quaternions founde added to the 5. Councell of Constantinople which was espied in the 6. Councell of Constantinople Act. 3. 12. If men woulde be so bolde with generall Councells thinke you that they woulde be afrayde of Gregorius or Athanasius writings And what maner of a Sermon of Athanasius was that which was reade in the 4. action of the 2. Nicene Councell Of the image of Christ and the miracle done in Berytus that when a Iewe strake the image there issued out water and bloude what a shamelesse lye is that which Pope Adrian in his epistle writeth that CoÌ„stantine was clensed of a leprosie and baptised of Syluester at Rome contrary to the Historie of Eusebius who liued in Constantines time and knew him what faulsyfying of authorities is there to proue the worshipping of images out of Gregorie Nissene Basilius Magnus Athanasius and Ambrosius Chrysostome Cyrill and Hieronym with diuerse other in that leude Councell wherfore except you coulde alleage their sayings out of their owne workes I will neuer trouble my selfe to aunswere them although if they were there true authorities there is no cause why we shoulde beleeue either of them both in an article of faith with out the authoritie of the word of god Their time had diuerse errors superstitious ceremonies which they being occupied in fighting against greater heresies that then sprang vp of the Arians Macedonians
full of posing M. Protestant as though you were Iohannes ad oppositum I wil pose you M. Allen an other while or any M. Papiste of you all that hath a forheade to mainteine this trumperie for Clemenâ— the auncient Bishoppes writing Alas Syr what if this be proued counterfect that you saye is so olde and you with out peraduenture lye that of late haue founde it so auncient what grounde haue your schollers then Tertullian hath discharged you of authority of the scripture already how will you proue it then to be a tradition of the Apostles your aunswere wil be still Clenens sayth it But alacke Sir whether is it more licke that Eusebius and Hieronym that lyued neerer to the time of S. Clement by twelue hundreth yeares then you shoulde know or here tell of his epistles and other writings better then you But Eusebius and Hieronym neuer hearde of such writinges as were neuer seen in the Church 13. or 14. hundreth yeares after Clemens his death Where shoulde you haue them then but of some counterfecting knawe that coulde not otherwise maintaine his heresie to be old but by falsyfying and counterfecting a newe that which neuer was in the olde writers heades But to shew that your shamelesse Clement daunceth bare and breechelesse with out all honesty I will yet pose you further and bidde you call your wittes together to aunswere me Whether had you rather graunt that so holy a Pope as Clemens was did erre or â—hat he was a false knaw that woulde father an error vppon so holy a mans name and credit your Syr Clemens decreeth that the fortyeth day must be obserued for the departed according to the olde forme because the people did so obserue the bewayling of Moses But if the scripture affirme that the people bewayled Moses but 30. dayes Deut. 34. Then is your Clement a falsyfier of Gods worde and his foolish decree builded vppon his false grounde How saye you now M. Allen is this Apostolike or apostotaticall is this plaine dealing or Popish counterfecting was Clemens in the Apostles age so ignorant of the scripture or was he an ignorant hypocrite that fayned this vnder the name of Clemens Trueth seaketh not to be mainteined which lyes fayth looketh not to be defended by falsehoode The Church of Christ craueth no counterfected authoritie to establish her doctrine Therefore it is neither trueth nor fayth nor the doctrine of the Church of Christ that you mainteine defend and establish by lying falsyfying and counterfecting but error infidelity and heresie he therefore that will forsake the certainetie of Gods worde to builde vpon the traditions of men for leuing the only pathe of trueth hath a iust rewarde to fall into the pitte of error 5 VVell I will close vp this parte of our talke for Tobies almes borde in the obittes of Christian men with S. Augustines graue iudgement who as he is plaine for the benefite of oblations in the memorialls of mens departures in all placies so here in a maner he ordereth the action thereof for abusies that might thereon arise in his epistle to Aurelius The offeringes sayth he obserued for the soules departed whereof there is no question but profet ariseth to them let them not be ouer sumptuous vpon the mindes of the deceased nor soulde away but geuen with out grudge or disdaine to such as be present and woulde be partaker thereof but if mony be offered it may be distributed out of hande to the poore and then shall not those dayes of their freindes memorialles be to their great griefe forsaken or destitute of companie And the ordre with honeste comelinesse shall be kept continually in the Church So S. Clement him selfe teacheth all them that be called to such dayes of prayers for the departed and to be partakers of those oblations or charitable relieues which were by some honest sober refreshing euen in the Church in those dayes obserued whether they be of the laity or of the priestes he geueth them this lesson Qui ad memorias eorum vocamini cum modestia cum dei timore comedite veluti valentes legatione fungi pro mortuis cum sitis presbyteri diaconi Christi sobrij esse debetis priuatim cum alijs vt possitis intemperantes coercere All you that are called to the funeralles of the departed refresh your selues in measure and feare of God that you may be worthy to be as it were in commission of intreatie for the deade and being priestes or deacons of Christ you are bounde to be sobre euen at home but abrode for others example and discipline 5 You had bene as good to haue left out the comparing of Augustines oblations with Tobies almes borde for that custome which most resembled your fantasie of Tobies almes borde Augustine condemneth where he alloweth oblations for them that sleepe to profit some what Sed quoniaÌ„ istae in caemiterijs ebrietates luxuriosa conuiuia non solùm honores martyrum in carnali imperita plebe credi solent sed etiam solatia mortuorum mihi videtur facilius illic dissuadeâ—i posse istam foeditatem ac turpitudinem si de scripturis prohibeatur oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium quas verè aliquid adiuuare credendum est super ipsas memorias non sunt sumptuosae c. But because this dronkennesses and riotous festes vsed in the Church yeardes of the carnall and vnskillfull people are wonte to be beleued not onely to be the honour of the martyrs but also the comforte of the deade my thinke it were more easy that this filthynesse and beastlynesse may be there diswaded if both it be forbidden out of the scriptures and that the oblations for the spirites of the deade which truely we must beleue doth helpe somewhat vpon the memories them selues be not sumptuous c. But if Augustine had knowen the horrible abuses which grew afterwarde by permission of these oblations he woulde as well haue prohibited them out of the scripture as that hethenish banquettinge in the Church yeardes in honor of the martyrs as for comforte of deade mens soules As for Clement that teacheth the preistes and deacones to be sober and moderate in eating where they were bidden to buriall feastes euen here also he sheweth him selfe in his owne colours As though in the dayes of Clemens when the Church was in great persecution they had nothing els to doe but to keepe sumptuous feastes at their burialls where at the priestes and deacons were in daunger of glouttony dronkennesse as they were in the Popish church when Popery was in the pride seldome temperate or sober and lest of all at burialls and monthes mindes c. That the benefite of prayer and almes appertaineth not to such as dye in mortall sinne though in the doubtefull case of mans beeing the Church vseth to praye for all departed in Christes fayth CAP. VII 1 THus farre we now are broght I trust with proofe and euidence enough with
that was the worst and cursed was he that was counted the best then is our case most carefull then are we worse then all other nations that neuer receiued the name of Christ then are we worse then we were before our conuersion then to be shorte there is no religion no Christ no God no hope of saluation 2 I am content to staye with you and ponder as much as is meete the conuersion of the Saxones vnto the faith of christ And first I saye that you reason both falsely and foolishly to proue that either all opinions were true or else all false that the Saxones receiued at there first conuersion For though prayer for the deade and other superstitious opinions then receiued were false yet doth it not follow that all that then was taught them for Christianity was false For although Augustine had bene voyde of all true articles of the faith yet the byshoppes and christian teachers of the Brytish nation in whose ayde they required and at last obtayned to the conuerting of the Saxones reteyned the foundation of fayth Iesus Christ and the onely sacrifice of his death And this was the fayth that was receiued euen of the Saxones as appeareth by those homylies that yet remaine in the Saxon tongue appointed to be reade vnto the people for their instruction and namely in that printed Saxone homylie which was appointed to be reade at Easter where in is declared not onely the faith of the Church at that time concerning the sacrifice of Christ his death but also that heresie of popish transubstantiation and the reall presence of Christes body in the sacrament is pithily confuted And therefore it is altogither vntrue that you say M. Allen that they did institute a sacrifice to the defacing of our redemption as you do that they did adore the sacrament as the natural body of Christ as you doe or counted it a â—â—opitiatory sacrifice for the quicke and the deade as you doe although they vsed vnprofitable prayers for the deade and many other superstitions Neither doth it follow that all that taught or beleued those errours so long as they builded vpon Christ the only foundation haue perished or that all they taught was false because some thing was vntrue or that God hath deceaued vs with fayned miracles which Satan hath shewed to set vp the kingdom of Antichrist euen in the temple of God with all lying signes and wonders 2. Thes. 2. To conclude no truth is false no vertue is vice no good thing is euill because all was not true all was not vertue all was not good that was receiued and practised among them 3 All which things if they repugne to common sense and reason and to the comfortable hope of our saluation which we haue receiued from God by Christ Iesus and the assured testimony of the spirite of God that we be a part of his chosen Church sanctified in his holy name by the word of truth and life which we by the ordinary ministery of man haue receiued signes and wonders confirming their calling and doctrine then this religion which they planted first in our country must nedes be in all points both holy true and accepâ—able vnto god Then as by that religion our fathers were ingraffed first into Christes body misticall which is the Church in which till this day they haue kept the high way to saluation so who so euer forsaketh this or any principall article or braunch thereof and so leaueth that Church into which we first entered at our conuersion he leaueth assuredly life and saluation and without all doubt euerlastingly perisheth Amongest which pointes of doctrine our aduersaries can not deny but the saying masse and offering for the deade the almes and prayers for the departed was taught with the first and proued by miracles with the rest The which either to deny were ouer much discredit of the antiquitie and plaine impudencie or else to attribute them to the deuills working were open vntollerable blasphemy 3 There is nothing that you saye in this parte or that you can say in this respect to proue that the religion here receiued was in all pointes holy true and acceptable to God because it was in some and those the chiefe but it may be sayed by the nations of the Gothes and Vandalles which were first conuerted from hethenish idolatry to the profession of the name of Christ by the Arrian heretikes to defend that there religion was in all pointes holy true and acceptable to God or by them that were conuerted by the Donatistes Nouations or any other heretikes For although the Arrians were blasphemous heretikes yet they tought many thinges truely and soundly concerning the faith of christianitie And therefore no more then the religion of the Arrians who first turned those nations was true in all pointes though it were in many no more I saye was euery article that was tought vnto the Saxons which were conuerted by superstitious Romanistes in all pointes true notwithstanding that many things and the principall were true So much therefore as may be iustified by the worde of God of that doctrine is holy true and acceptable to God but that which is contâ—ary to the doctrine of the holy Scriptures is neither receiued from God nor Christ neither hath it any testimony of his spirite by what presumptuous words oâ— apperance of signes and wounders so euer it be vttered Neither is it any greater offence for the English men to renounce the error of praying for the deade or abusing the communion to the similitude of a sacrifice or any other superstition then or at any time after receiued then it was for the Gothes or Vandalles to forsake the hereticall and blasphemous opinions of the Arrians by whome they were first perswaded to reuerence the name of Christ or for any other that were turned by any heretikes to forsake their first errors and geue place to the trueth after reueiled vnto them And whereas you affirme that we can not deny but that Masse offering almes and prayer for the deade were taught with the first and proued by miracle with the rest we may be bolde to deny that they were at the first taught so grossely as they be now maintained impudently And as for miracles I meane such as were prophecied to be the efficacy of error in the kingdome of Antichrist we will confesse that these and like errors had alwayes great plenty to establish them as they which had no authoritie out of the holy Scriptures to approue them 4 Yea this doctrine hath brought the Church to this bewtifull order in all degrees as we haue seene All the noble monuments not onely in our common wealth but through Christes Church doe beare sufficient testimony of our first faith herein This doctrine as the whole world knoweth founded all Bishoprikes builded all Churches raised all Oratories instituted all Collegies indued all Schooles mainteyned all hospitalles set forward all workes of charity and religion of what
taking away of this olde faith of praying and offering for the dead all the workes of the same faith which ishued downe from that fountaine might shrinke with all or returne to the founders againe because there is no rowme to fulfil their willes how many Churches and Chappelles what Colledges or hospitalls woulde our newe no faith bring forth VVould not euery bishoppes wife builde a Church thinke you or founde a Colledge in such a necessitie lest their husbands shoulde be driuen to serue in a reformed french barne 6 Nowe as touching your vaine supposing if all such landes as were geuen to mainteine prayers for the deade or other like purposes either good or supposed to be good should reuerte to the heyers of their first founders for not performing the intent of the founders perhaps fewe monasteries colledges or hospitalles In Italy Spayne Fraunce or Flaunders shoulde enioyâ— one halfe peny worth of their landes or reuenewes They ment not onely to be prayed for but to be prayed for by men of honester conuersation then the greatest parte of those cloysterers are They are too well knowen to the worlde to be taken for that they be called holy religious and chaste But suppose as you sayde that we had no manner of Churches to assemble in though byshoppes wiues be not able to builde them yet we doubt not but in the time of peace and tranquilitie vnder godly princes we shoulde haue as many and as faire builded Churches as the religion of Christ hath neede of Haue you not hearde of the Churches builded in Orleans and Antwerpe other places by the professors of the Gospell But if it were in time of persecution and tyranny I doubt not but all godly bishoppes had rather serue in a french reformed barne then in a popishe gilded minster And how so euer you iest like a scornefull caytifie of those holy assemblees of Gods children in Fraunce there barnes are more like those caues and vaultes vnder the earth that the olde Christian byshoppes were content to serue in before the time of Constantine theÌ„ your Idolatrous Babylonicall temples are like those princely buildings that by Constantine and other Christian princes were first set vp for the publicke exercise of Christian religion 7 One of these mocke byshoppes complaines very sore in a booke of his that men be not now bent with such zele and deuotion to preferre Gods honour in maintenaunce of his Ministers as they were in olde time and as Constantinus with the like christiaÌ„ Princies in the primitiue Church were But the good man marked not wherevpon this colde deuotion ariseth he considereth not that this is the fructlesse effect of so idle a false faith as his owne lordship preacheth he would not see that the maintenaunce of Gods honour both by liefe landes and goods in the peculiar fructe of that charitable louing faith which the Catholikes doe professe he weyed not well that the great grauntes of Constantinus were made to Syluester Bishop of Rome and not to the maried Byshop of Duresme He remembred not that the like holy workes of the noble kinges of our owne countrie were practised vpon such as wouldâ— professe the trueth and serue the altar and not vpon false pastors that were destroyers of all altars Such honorable portions were parted out for Gods lot and not taken from the worlde to goe to the worldely againe Thinke you any man were so minded to take from his owne wife and children either landes or goods to bestow on priestes babbes or bedfellowes No no God knoweth it was separated from them selues to the sacrifice to the priesthoode to the honour of Gods Church and ministerie The which thinges by your owne preaching my lordes decaide woulde you haue the Prince or peoples deuotion towardes you as is was and woulde be still if you were like your predecessors and serued the altar as they did I wisse if the olde S. Cuthbert Wilfride and William whome they compare in holynesse to horsies so good is their opinion of their holy auncieters had bene of the same religion that the occupiers of their roumes now be all the Prelates in England might haue put their rentes in a halpeny purse Come in againe come in for Christes sake come in to the Church againe serue the altar and then you be wortâ—â— to liue of the altar followe our fathers and you shall be loued as our fathers were confesse that religion which our owne Apostles first taught and we all haue beleued and all the workes of Gods Church protest to be true and then you shall be blessed of God and honoured of men 7 You are a priuileged person as your owne talke doth declare and therefore you may prate what you list if he be a mocke bishoppe which beside his excellent learning is also a painefull and diligent preacher of the Gospell what are those vnlearned Asses and rechlesse ruffians of your secte which haue nothing of a bishop but a rotchet and a myter or because I will not charge you with the worst what are they which if they haue some more learning then the rest of which number there are but fewe yet they count it the least part of their office to preach and teach which S. Paule counteth to be chiefe part of a Christian shepeheard ouerseer But to leaue the name come to the matter you mistake that godly mans complaint if you thinke he meaneth of superfluous buyldinges of Synagoges whereof you speake or the vnnecessary enryching of Prelates whereof you meane when he speaketh of the necessary sustentations of a great number of Pastors which through the rauening of your gluttonous Monkes be robbed of their portions And whereas you aunswere it is the fruite of so idle a false faith as his lordship preacheth your mastership lyeth For that fayth which he preacheth is both a true and a working faith which if it were as generally receiued in this land as it is truely preached by him and others the ministers of Gods word could lacke no liuings as God be thanked they neither doe nor can lacke sufficient for necessity among so many of high authority nobility and wealth as doe vnfaynedly professe the Gospell and dayly bring forth the fruites of a true liuely working and onely iustifying fayth The Churches of Fraunce in time of greatest persecution yet haue alwayes liberally susteyned their Pastors And as for the great grauntes that Constantine made to Syluester Byshop of Rome of such as he made in deede he made to married Byshops of Rome as some of them were since Syluester time rather then vnto Syluester the coniurer Hildebrand the hell hounde Iulius the warriar or any that succeeded Boniface the third which beside their abominable life were all heretikes and Antichristes And touching such benefites as were receiued at the handes of princes and noble men of our cuntry if they were ment to be bestowed vpon the professors of the truth and such as serue the aulter of
sacrifice for the deade was instituted by Christ at his last Supper which the holy Ghost afterwarde did secretly suggest vnto the Apostles and they as secretly deliuered to the nations For no worde nor halfe worde therof is conteined in their writings which are to vs the only true testimony of their tradition Thus haue these heretikes no grounde of their heresie but shifte from the worde of scripture to secret tradition from tradition to the meaning of scripture from the plaine meaning of scripture to the vnconstant opinions of men from the variable and contrary opinions of men in times past to their owne obstinacy and continuaunce in error in time present yet he woundreth that we are so blinde that we can not see the cleere light of the trueth If Satan transforming him selfe into an angell of light hath so dasled their eyes that they can not see the true light they are iustly plagued because they haue refused the faithfull testimony of Gods worde which only geueth true light vnto the eyes as the Prophet saith and geuen heede to spirites of errors and doctrines of deuils by whom they are blinded in vtter darkenesse though it be with false imagination and dreaminge of light Yet see the confidence of the man he is suer that if we were examined of our conscience what triall of this doubt we woulde wishe there is none we coulde name but his cause might well abide it Why M. Allen we haue testified of our conscience longe agoe that the onely authority of Gods worde written shall satisfie vs as well in this as in all other matters if you were as desirous to satisfie vs as you pretend and as able to performe as you are to promise we should haue hearde before this time some sentence of scripture to maintaine prayer and sacrifice for the deade not standing vppon voluntary collection but either in plaine wordes or necessary conclusion For there is nothing that we are bounde to knowe nothing that we are bounde to doe but either in expresse wordes or in necessary collection which is as good as expresse wordes it is set forth in the holy Scriptures Beside this you shoulde bring a great preiudice against vs if you coulde bringe the consent and practise of the primitiue pure Church for the space of an hundreth yeares after christ But neither of these doe we looke to see we before see with our eyes the certainety of those thinges whereof now we contend in words and writinges The heretikes of our time and country be yet further vrged vvith the practise of prayers for the deceased their contrary communion is compared vvith the olde vsage of Celebration They are ashamed of the first original of their Christian faith they are vveary of their ovvne seruice they are kepte in ordre by the vvisedome of the Ciuile magistrates and are forced flatly to refuse all the doctors CAP. XII 1 THe chiefe argument that the Church of God vsed in olde time against Pelagius the enemy of Gods grace was this that at the holy altar the Priest prayed to God for to conuert heretikes and infidells to the faith and euill liuers wicked conuersation to vertue and honesty the which prayers had bene to no purpose if the grace of God had not borne the principall stroke in the chaunging of mans hearte But being assured of this as a grounde that the prayer of the Priest in the whole Churches name at the altar can not but beare singular strength and trueth it is necessarily concluded that seeing the publike minister so prayeth that we must needes beleue that God hath mans hearte in his hande and may turne it to the belefe of his worde or loue of his will as he liketh and listeth notwithstanding the perfect freedome of mans will which by Gods grace is neuer perished but alwayes perfected And in this assured foundation of the publike prayers S. Augustine who then was the souldier of grace so triumphed against one Vitalis a Pelagian that he ringeth him this peale Exerce contra orationes ecclesiae disputationes tuas quaÌ„do audis sacerdotem dei ad altare exhortantem populum dei orare pro incredulis subsanna pias voces ecclesiae dic te non facere quod hortatur homo in Carthagiensi eruditus ecclesia etiam beatissimi Cypriani librum de oratione dominica condemna Holde on fellow exercise thy contentious talke against the vsuall prayers of Gods Church and wheÌ„ thou hearest the Priest of God at his altar exhort the people to praye for the misbeleuers scoffe at the holy wordes and make him aunswere thou wilt not pray as he biddes thee And being brought vp in the Church of Carthage condemne withall S. Cyprians worke vpon our Lordes prayer wherein he teacheth the same I tary nowe the longer on this point that thou mayest learne to kepe an heretike at the bay and to fasten thy stroke so surely vpon him that which waye so euer he shifte he shall beare thy blowe vpon his necke and shoâ—lders It is not for our cause taken in hand that I now so much trauell for that is longe sith made sure enough for all the deuills in Hell or their followers in earth But I woulde in this one example of praying for the deade geue the studious a tast of all such wayes as the trueth of all other pointes in controuersy may be both surely defended and so plainly proued and vpholden that the aduersary shall not be able to say baffe vnto any one of the least of all the groundes wherevpon Gods trueth standeth Handeling then our good men as S. Augustine did the like say to them boldely that the same Church which exhorteth the people to pray for the misbeleuers doth geue vs example to pray for the soules departed Vitalis and Pelagius were heretikes for withstanding the one they must needes be as very heretikes for refusing the other It was the greatest extremitie that Pelagius coulde be driuen to by force of Augustines argument to mocke at the priests prayer made at Gods altar and that which then was so foule an absurditie for those false teachers can it be borne out of ours with honestie Vitalis the Pelagian had a foule foyle by S. Augustine â—hen he charged him with the contempt of S. Cyprians authoritie Byshop of Carthage being him selfe a â—hield of the same Church And shall they goe away so smouthly nowe a dayes not only with contempe of their owne English patrons and Apostles but with impudent deniall of all the doctors at once that euer were gydes of Gods Church sith Christes faith was taught It was of Augustine counted a singular arrogancy not to praye in that forme as Gods Church and ministers at the altar both praye them selues and exhorte other to pray and shall it be such prayse for our preachers to erect a new seruice to be checke mate with the olde to controele the rites and vsages of solemne supplication in all countries Christianed and with the
left out of our seruice which he tormeth like him self prayers and sacrifice for the deade as though he hath not bene often tolde by the example of Gods Church â–ª whereof wâ— haue sure warrant out of Gods word by example of the eldest Church and nearest to the Apostles tymes as we haue shewed out of Iustinus Martyr and Tertullian before he became an heretike And as for him that affirmed the old Liturgies to make against your masse though he be better able to aunswere for him selfe yet haue I shewed also that there are none so full of blasphemy as your masse is And it is easie to be gathered by Epiphanius that the olde forme of liturgie was but to make mention of the deade to haue them in remembraunce And because they vsed to make memory of all sortes of men that were deade in Christ he expoundeth it according to the errour of his time that this memory was a prayer for the sinners for the iust as Patriarkes Prophets c. a signification that they were inferior to christ A simple cause why they should be remembred but this shift he is driuen vnto because he did not coÌ„sider that the memory and oblation which the olde fathers made for all departed in Christ was a sacrifice of thankes giuing and not of prayers for them The same order errour doe all the later liturgies follow making memory prayers for all them that are departed in the faith In the memory of all departed they follow the olde order in praying for all they follow the latter error which had chaunged the sacrifice of thankes giuing into the sacrifice of prayer But herein they declared that they had not yet generally receiued your newe doctrine of purgatory because they prayed not as you doe for them onely that are in purgatory to whom onely you confesse the prayers to be needefull and profitable but for all that are departed in the fayth of Christ from the beginning of the worlde And now Syr I haue shewed wherein they make against you But where as you taunt at the author of that booke because he setteth not his name vnto it you shew your witte bewray your disease You can neither tell what to speak nor yet how to hold your peace In the margent you gesse it was M. Pilkington of Duresme you would faine haue such a man to be your aduersary that though you tooke the foyle yâ—t you might boast that you were so bold as to fight with him But it is an easyer matter for such a desperate dicke to beginning a fraye then to ende it If I may be as bolde to gesse as you I gesse that he which made that lusty chalenge of the Papist against the Protestant promising to recant at the ende of euery article if he colde be aunswered was such a tryed Thraso as M. Allen if you aske me what is the grounde of my gesse to omit the stile somewhat like I will aunswere as one in Plautus doth Credo te esse ab illo nam ita nugas blattis I take it to be euen you you are so full of bracing and facing But who so euer he was was he ashamed of his name because he set not his name vnto it and was the man of Chester ashamed of his name because he setteth it not to his treatise Finally be all those Papistes ashamed of their names which haue written so many petty pamphlettes to be caried abrode in Popish fellowes pocketts O intemperate tonge which can not spare such tauntes as redounde to him selfe and his owne good maisters reproch Your lyes of offering worshipping and praying to the hoste be reproued alredy you say we might with more honesty haue coped for one of those Lyturgies if we liked not Gregories Masse rather then to haue forged a new I aunswere we haue with more honesty reformed our Lyturgie according to the worde of God and example of the oldest Church then Gregory Basill Chrysostome if they were theirs or who so euer were authors of those Liturgies did leaue the auncient Lyturgies that were vsed in the Church before their time because they did not sufficiently expresse their errors and superstition and forge them newe of their owne contrary to the worde of god And where as you prate of the Latine Church and the East parte we neither refuse the Latine Church while it was pure nor receiue the East Church where in it was corrupt but the scripture is a rule vnto vs to iudge all Churches by Although it were easy to proue by that coÌ„trouersie which the Britaynes and the Scottes had against the Saxons about the celebration of Easter that our countrie first receiued their conuersion from the East Church whose ceremonie they did then defend euen as the East Church did longe before against Victor Bishoppe of Rome By which it appeareth that this lande did neuer receiue the doctrine and ceremonies of the Latine Church before the time of the Saxons And whereas you slaunder vs for referringe our faith to an vncertaine and vnknowen Origine the contrary is manifest when we referre it to no iudgement or company of men but to the authoritie of Gods worde and all them that will be subiect therevnto But I tarye to longe in these trifles 3. Euery man in the primitiue Church counted the spring of his faith more pure and a great deale more cleare if he coulde against an heretike declare by good testimony that his belefe did at length by iust counte fall into the Romane Church So doth Irenaeus against the Valentinians so doth Cyprian against the Nouatians so doth Tertullian and Vincentius against all heretikes so doth Augustine and Optatus against the Donatistes so doth Hyerom and all the reste against the Arians All these thought they had a great vauntage if they could by plaine accompt proue against an heretike that their doctrine ishued from the Byshop of Rome Goe whether thou wilt saith Tertulian and thou shalt finde some Apostolike seat to instruct thy conscience thou hast harde by the Philippos or Ephesus or Rome and there loe fetch we the authority of our faith S. Augustine that knewe best how to fetche an heretike ouer the coles vrgeth him euer to reduce his doctrine to some Bishop of Rome when he had him once at that strait then loe he goeth through the whole ranke of holy Byshoppes by name to the nomber of fourty well neare Bring me once an euident declaration that your faith ishued from any one byshop of that Sea and then you may passe throw the longe line of that succession with out bracke or any rupture in the worlde I coulde make accompt sayth Irenaeus of many successions of Apostolike Churches but that were to longe only Rome shall serue that is the greatest the auncientest and best knowen and by the tradition of that Church confundimus omnes eos we vtterly confounde all heretikes It is a straunge thinge that the fathers hauing store of Apostolike
and the whole congregation yea and speciall regard of the oblations of the poore And in the perticular rehearsing of diuerse kind of persons and the forme of the sacrifice named according to euery perticular state it is so farre of that the deade shall be reckned that such thinges are enioyned euery of these perticular persons to doe as it is playne that none but the liuing could offer or haue sacrifice offered for thē What law was appoynted touching lamenting for the deade you may reade Leuit. 21. how the Priest was forbidden to lament for any but speciall persons also Nu. 19. diuerse ordinances concerning the deade yet neuer any sacrifice or prayer for the deade When Nadab and Abihu were slayne their father and brethren were forbidden to mourne for them the people were permitted By all which it appeareth not only that no sacrifice for the deade was offered but that they were so separated from the liuing that the Priestes might haue nothing to do with any of them but in speciall cases And as for your common shift of the common body of the liuing and the deade helpeth you nothing for although all the faithfull make one body in Christ yet there is one state of them that worke an other of them that are iudged according to their works to put no diuersitie betwene them is not to make a communion but a confusion But of all other it is a clerkely cōclusion that you send M. Grindall to looke vpon the example of your masse whith is a sacrifice both for the quicke the deade and thereof will proue that the olde lawe had but one sacrifice for the liue and the deade In deede there you were to good for him if the practise of the popish church be a good president for Moyses to follow in his law we will reason no longer But the fact of Iudas Machabaeus putteth all out of doubt Surely then the fact of euery man that transgressed the lawe shall be sufficient to proue what the lawe was and not the booke of the lawe For else how coulde he haue conceiued any sacrifice which he neuer hearde of How did Dauid conceiue the cariage of the arke in a newe cart which he neuer heard of except it were of the Philistians that sent home the arke in a cart And euen so it is like that Iudas Machabaeus if he deuised not that sacrifice of his owne head yet tooke it by imitation of the Gentiles whose studies and practises your owne author confesseth were more frequented in those dayes among the Iewes then the preaching or keeping of the law Finally to all the other howe 's and whyes I aunswere with one word he had no warrant of his fact in the law of god Neither doth S. Augustine sufficiently answere the heretike that would proue by that fact that men dying in deadly sinne might be saued by sacrifice For though they were not vncircumcised for whom Iudas sent an offering yet they dyed in deadly sinne and such sinne as for which they were iustly slayne as your owne author confesseth for the idolatrous iewells that they had euery one in their bosomes Concerning the authoritie of that booke and how it was taken by Augustine I haue aunswered enough before 4 But here will I nowe make an ende desiring thee gentle reader with such indifferency to weighe the doing and dealing of both parties as the importaunce of the cause the loue of truth the necessary care of thine owne saluation and thy duety towardes God and his Church requireth There is none of all those pointes which the vnfaithfull contention of our miserable age hath made doubtefull in which thou mayest better beholde howe vpright the wayes of trueth and vertue be and howe pernicious double and deceitfull the dealing of heresie is The one is vpholden by the euidēt testimony of holy scripture the other mainteineth her traine by bolde deniall of scriptures the one seeketh with humility the meaning at their mouthes whome God hath vndoubtedly blessed with the gifte of vnderstanding and interpretation the other by singular pride foundeth her vnfaithfulnesse vpon the phantasies of light and lewde persons that are pufte too and fro with euery blaste of doctrine The one resteth vpon the practise of all nations the vsage of all ages and the holy workes both of God and man the other holdeth wholy by contempte of our elders flatery of the present dayes and vnhappy waste of all workes of vertue religion and deuotion the one followeth the gouernours and appointed pastours of our soules whose names be blessed in heauen and earth the other ioyneth to such as for other horrible heresies wicked life are condemned both a liue and deade of the vertuous and can not for shame be named of their owne scholars The one hath the warraunt of Gods whole Church the other standeth on curse and excommunication by the grauest authority that euer was vnder God in earth To be shorte trueth is the Churches dearlinge heresie must haue her maintenaunce abrode This one holy Catholike and Apostolike Church is it wherevnto we owe all duety and obedience both by Gods commaundement and by the bonde of our first faith and profession There is no force of argument no probability of reason no subtelty of witte no deepe compasse of wordely wisedome no eloquence of man nor Angell nor any other motion that can be wrought in the world that shoulde make a man doubte of any article approued by her authority And if thou yet feare to geue ouer thy whole sense and thine owne selfe to so carefull a mother in whome thou wast begotten in thy better birth compare our Church with theirs compare her authority and theirs her maiesty and theirs 4 In Gods name let the readers waye indifferently the doinges and dealinges on both partes the cause the trueth their saluation the Church and the glory of God aboue all thinges And as they see this pointe handeled so let them iudge of the reste The trueth is vpholden by euident testimony of scripture the error by custome practise and iudgement of men The trueth seeketh vnderstanding of the scriptures of the spirite of God in the scriptures error at the mouthes of mortall men The trueth resteth vpon the onely authority of God error vpon the maintenaunce of carnall deuises The trueth is founded vpon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles the other vpon Gentiles and heretikes Trueth is embraced of the pure and primitiue Church of Christ error is continued from a corrupt state of the Church of Christ vnto a plaine departing awaye into the church of Antichrist To be short trueth is tryed by the worde of God heresie by the inuention of men The holy Catholicke and Apostolicke Church is that which humbly obeyeth the word of God and the Synagoge of Satan is that which arrogantly challengeth authoritie aboue the worde The true Church shall neuer decaye but alwaye reigne with Christ the false Synagoge shall daily more and more decaye
VVhere did they gather as in Councells to try the trueth of doubtfull matters AS God gaue them respight from your tyrannie they had conference one with an other and as for doubtes they tried them by the worde of God and not by number of voyces as you do in your councells as for the places where they met is nothing at all materiall at Prage at Lyons at Merindol c. 7 How might Christian men iustly offended with some of their brethern haue sought out your officers or Congregation to make complainct of him YOu are void of all reason that in a persecuted church will require all thinges to be so formall and orderly as in time of peace and quietnes I could choke you with putting like cases of your Church If a number of Papistes be carried prisoners into Barbarie or Turkey what Sacraments what discipline what Iudgement haue they among them if one be offended with his brother how shall he come to your officeâ—s or to your Church to complaine In such cases where the ordinary authoritie of the Church is hindred by persecution or otherwise the rule of S. Paule 1. Cor. 5. may serue and ought to be obserued If any that is called a brother be a fornicator or couetous or an Idolater or a rayler or a drunkard or an extorcioner with such one eate not So that if a Christian be iustly offended with his brother he ought to absteine from his company And if he may haue ordinary authoritie he may complaine further 8 Or how if it had liked any man to haue ben baptized of them or to haue receiued the communion of them or to haue bene married of them or to haue ioyned them selues in Fayth and Religion to them how might I say that secret contemptible and vnknowne company be founde in this case HE must haue sought them out as well as he could if he had bene perswaded that they onely ministred the Sacraments Ecclesiasticall rites sincerely according to the word of God it were no great matter for him to find them seing he knew by whom he was so perswaded and of them might also be informed where he should haue them I maruell you are not ashamed to demauÌ„d these questions as though it were materiall to discusse whether of vs hath the Church to haue the Church so manifest that euery man may see it Doe you not remember how many schismes haue bene euen in the popish church more theÌ„ twenty and sometime two Popes at once sometime three sometime fower which of them should a simple Papist take for head of the Church especially in the 22. schisme which lasted 39. yeares one Pope sitting at Rome an other at Auinion either hauing his court either hauing and making Cardinals either cursing other Or in the 23. schisme when the question was of one of the highest pointes in all popery and is not yet throughly decided among them Whether the Pope be aboue the Councell or the Councell aboue the Pope In the time of these schismes how might a man haue founde out which was the true Church which was Christes vicare in earth which had the right Sacraments and Sacramentalls to which Popes court should he appeale where did the principall Pastors sit in iudgement c. How should councells be gathered which Pope shoulde confirme their actes c When you are able to aunswere these questions for your owne church then you may better require them of ours As for that secrete contemptible and vnknowne company of our Church in the sight of the world was neuerthelesse manifest glorious and knowen to our Sauiour Christ and the liuely members of his body 9 If therefore you can shew me that any man euer sought Iustice or knowledge of trueth sacrament or faith or any helpe of Saluation at the Protestants secret and close congregation or any other where but of Gods knowen Catholike Church I recant ALthough it be to litle purpose to aunswere this demande because it is no reason to say these thinges hath not bene because chronicles make no mention of them yet that all men maye see how farre you ouershoot your selfe I wil partely satisfie your request Charles the great sought knowledge of the trueth of the sacrament of Bertramus Iohn Duke of Lancaster and diuers other noble men were instructed in our Religion by VVickleue The land of Bohemia was conuerted by Iohn Hus and Hieronym of Prage and sought the sacraments of them Finally you alwayes forget the Greeke church which you do not accompt parte of the Catholike church and yet you can not deny but men haue sought Iustice sacramentes faith c. of it Therefore if a man might trust you vpon your worde you recant The 10. article conteyneth in effect but 2. demandes 1 Moreouer I aske whether for all these many hundreth of yeares or euer els before there was any temporall Prince or Potentate that offered to be vnder God a minister of Iustice and an executor of Christian lawes in the right of your Congregation that euer maintained by lawes Ciuill or other your Faith and Congregation and I recant BEfore the general defection it is an easy matter to name you the Emperours and Princes which both offered to be ministers of Iustice in the right of our church and also mainteyned our faith and Congregation by Ciuill lawes as Constantine the greate Iouinianus Valentinianus Theodosius Archadius Honorius Marcianus Iustinianus Mauricius and diuers other But when the kinges of the earth had committed fornication with the great whore of Babylon as the holy Ghost foresheweth Apoc. 17. and 18. it is no preiudice to our cause if we can not shew any of them that haue mainteined our Religion Yet because you make so gentle an offer vpon the triall of such a matter which is of small force either to the hurt of our cause or the maintenance of yours I will let you vnderstande what I haue reade for this purpose Not doubting but other which haue reade much more and seene more auncient histories than I can shew you a great deale more I passe ouer as to well knowen how many of the Grecian Emperors resisted the setting vp of Images in so much that in the Greeke church to this daye they can abide none in their temples likewise I passe ouer Charles the great who wrote a booke against Images which is in printe who also declared that he liked not the heresie of the reall presence and transubstantiation which in his time was in forging in that he called Bertrame to declare his minde of that matter as appeareth by his booke which is also in printe I will not rehearse those princes that contrary to the Popes lawes defended their priestes that were maried For although these and such like defended some parte of the trueth which we holde against you yet lest you should obiect it was but in some one or two pointes I passe them ouer with silence But VVickleue I wene you will not deny
opening of Gods spirite But omitting this matter as touched by the way with two other pages following as containing nothing materiall to be aunswered I will come to the third leafe and second face where you promise an orderly proceeding in the matter you take in hand Which order of yours if you had not professed your selfe to obserue men might haue taken your hochpot to be such as your matter would bring forth that the treaty of Purgatory should be like the troublesome state therof but when you are not content to haue your methode counted to be of the nature of your matter but you will needes make boast of an orderly proceeding in so disordered a cause you must not be offended if your confusion in steade of order be sometime discouered Howbeit the want of order were a small fault if the matter were pregnant and certaine But what assurance shall other men haue of your doctrine when you your selfe affirme and haue learned as you say out of Irenaeus that such doctrine and mysteries may not be safely had at such a mans hand as you are but onely of holy Priestes and Byshops which with the succession of their office haue receiued a sure and certaine gift of truth according to the pleasure of their father It is the duety not onely of a good teacher but euen of a good Christian to say with the Psalmist I haue beleued and therefore I haue spoken If you beleue not these matters why haue you vttered them â–ª â—f you beleue them then be bold to shew vs your grounds out of the word of god For other perswasion then â—uch as is grounded vppon the hearing of Gods worde will neuer of Christians be counted for true beliefe so long as the 10. chapter to the Romanes remaineth in the Canon of the Bible But I knowe your meaning you affect the prayse of humilitie and modestie For wauering and vncertaintie in faith among Papistes is counted modâ—stie but this modesty is soone forgotten and this boldnesse nowe vtterly refused in the next leafe â—ollowing is not onely resumed by your selfe but also enioyned to others Be bolde blush not you might say though you should for shame to charge any of our aduersaâ—â—es c. A sodaine chaunge he that euen now neither can nor must be bolde although he hâ—d many more giftes then he hath and studied much longer then he hath done to expounde the holy Scripture without daunger to him selfe and his hearers because he hath not the certaine gifte of truth with ordinary succession by and by is growne to such a full perswasion of truth expressely proued by argument and authoâ—itie that men must be bold vppon his warrant to charge all his aduersaries either to be helde thereby or else with no honesty to escape his handes A man would maruaile to beholde this speedy alteration if he did not vnderstand the true difference betwene the certaine faith of a Christian and the obstinate blindenesse of an hereticke For when he compareth his opinion with the authority of Gods word where vpon true faith is builded he will not he can not he must not be bolde to vnderstand the scriptures he wanteth that certaine gifte of truth but when he remembreth that he can not deceiue others nor retaine the glory of constancy him selfe by doubtfulnesse and vncertainty then he â—aunteth braggeth of the force of his feeble arguments and vnsufficient auâ—horitie But concerning the place of Irenaeus by him alleged I must admonish the reader that his meaning was not that euery one that succedeth in a Byshoppes seate hath as necessarily annexed to his see that certaine gifte of veritie wherby he may expound the Scripture without error as maister Allen perhaps woulde insinuate But that some in the first age of the Church as they succeded the holy Byshoppes and elders that were ordained by the Apostles in place and office so also it pleased God their father that they shoulde succede in the like gifts and namely in that excellent gifte of interpretation of the Scriptures which was but extraordinarie and for a season For if it had been an ordinarie thing that euery Byshop by succession shoulde receiue that gifte there shoulde neuer haue been any heretike Byshops as there haue been many and againe that prerogatiue which Maister Allen him selfe will affirme to be peculiar to the Byshop of Rome shoulde be made common to euery other blinde Byshop where so eâ—er he sat which were a great absurditie in popery it selfe And as for the gift of the interpretation of scriptures God gâ—ueth it still though not in such full measure nor coÌ„monly without ordinary meanes allowed in the Scripture as reading comparing praying neuer the lesse with as full persuasion in matters concerning Gods honour our saluation by his holy Spirite as euer he did bestowe the same in any age And as for the helpes of learning requisite for the same as knowledge of the tongues and rationall sciences there was neuer greater stoâ—e in the church of Christ son Christ his time ye if we shall iudge by the writings and stories of all ages vnlesse we will be as impudent as maister Allen we must say there was neuer so great store of learning in any age as Gods holy name be praised there is now in these our dayes in menne professing Christian religion with what conscience can maister Allen affirme that there was neuer lesse store of learning then in this age when euen in remembraunce of men that are aliue there was a great deale lesse store then is nowe but in their fathers and grandfathers time there was almost nothing but rudenesse and barbarousnesse euen with the same conscience that soone after he affirmeth that pleasure is euer ioyned to the Protestants doctrine which more preuaileth then the preachers perswasion If you had meant Master Allen that peace of God which passeth all vnderstanding which they tast of that by the Protestants doctrine haue learned that they are iustified by faith Phil. 4. Rom. 5. and to that perpetual ioy in the holy Ghost whereunto we are exhorted by the Apostle Phil. 4. wherein the kingdom of God consisteth Rom. 14. we willingly would haue consented that such pleasure is alwayes ioyned to the Protestants doctrine but seeing it is more like you speake of carnall pleasures I must say thus much to confound your blasphemous tongue and to dashe out your slaunderous writing let the worlde witnesse that heareth our doctrine and God iudge that seeth our hearts whether carnall pleasures be ioyned to our teaching which daily preach with all vehemency and earnestnes vnfained repentaunce mortification deniall of our selues bearing of the crosse hatred of this world amendment of life holines and righteousnes and that vnder paine of euerlasting damnation And whether pleasure more then the godly perswasion of the preachers preuaileth to winne professors of our doctrine if it be not so clearly seene in this Church of England by the meanes of the great peace
them to life and placeth them in heauen with christ Ephes. 2. And as for that painfull penaunce that M. Allen complaineth to be so neglected in our tyme he chargeth vs vniustly with the cause thereof For within tyme of mans memory before the light of the Gospell did shine openly we saw no such painfull penaunce commonly but v. ladyes psalters v. pater nosters v. pence to v. poore men in remembraunce of the v. woundes v. fry dayes fast and such like And as for pilgrimage it was but a pastime for such as loued to roue about the cuntryes The hardest penaunce was to pay so deare for the paultry of Monkes merites and Fryers fables Popes pardons and such like Et hinc illae lachrymae This maketh the bitter complaint that this marchaundise will no more be bought but this is the iudgement of God vpon the great whore of Babylon 3 Considering therefore the great spread of contagion that this vntrue doctrine hath wrought both to the euerlasting miserie of heretikes them selues and also to the greuous punishment that almighty God of iust iudgement may take vpon vs that by his great mercy be yet Catholikes because we liue in wanton welth with out iust care or cogitation of our life past Neither doing any worthy fructes of penaunce nor yet endeuouring to make a mendes and recompense by satisfying for our sinnes before of mercy so pardned that to our damnation they can not now any more be imputed but yet for answering in summe parte of Gods iustice and perfect purging of the same sinnefull life past out of all doubte sharpely punishable for these thinges I say and for the stirring vp of the feare of God in my selfe the helpe of the simple the defense of the trueth and thabating of this great rage of sinne and heresie I thought good to geue warning moued therevnto by my frende also to all such as be not them selues able to searche out the trueth of these matters of that temporall or transitory punishment which God of iustice hath ordained in the other worlde for such as woulde not iudge them selues and preuent his heauy hand whiles they here liued our forefathers more then a thousand yeare since called it Purgatory The truth and certaine doctrine whereof I trust through Gods goodnesse so clearely to proue that the aduersary be he neuer so great with the Deuill shall neuer be able to make any likely excuse of his infidelitie And that so done I shall both open and proue the meanes which the Church of God hath euer profitably vsed for the reliefe of her children from the same punishment to the soueraigne good and comfortable for the faithfull soules departed And here I hartely pray thee gentle Reader whosoeuer thou be that shall finde iust occasion vndoubtedly to beleue this article of necessary doctrine euer constantly set forth by the grauest authoritie that may be in earth that as thou faithfully beleues it so thou perpetually in respect of the day of that dreadfull visitation study with feare and trembling to worke thy saluation Let that be for euer the difference betwixt the vnfruitefull faith of an heretike and the profitable beliefe of the true Catholike Christian that this may worke assured penaunce to perpetuall saluation and his vaine presumption to euerlasting damnation And though the matter which I haue taken in hand be nothing fitte for the diet of such delicate men as haue bene brought vp vnder the pleasant preaching of our dayes yet perchaunce change of diet with the sharpnesse of this eager sawse were if they could beare it much more agreable to their weake stomackes Trueth was euer bitter and faulshood flattering For th one by present paine procureth perpetuall wealth thother through deceitfull sweetenes worketh euerlasting woe But as for these pleasure preachers them selues because I feare me they haue indented with death and shaked hands with hell whatsoeuer may be sayd in this case they will yet spurne with the wordes of the wicked Flagellum inundans cum transierit not veniet super nos quia posuimus mendacium spem nostram mendacio protecti sumus Tush the common scourge when it passeth ouer shall not touch vs for we haue made lying our succour and by lying are we garded Yet when the light of the Apostolike tradition shall dase their eyes and the force of Gods truth beare downe their boldnes their owne blacke afflicted conscience by inward acknowledging that truth which they openly withstand shall so horribly torment their mindes that denying Purgatory they shall thinke them selues a liue in hell But gentle Readers pray for them with teares that God of his mighty grace would strike their flesh with his feare And if my poore paine with the prayers of vs all could turne any one of them all from the way of wickednesse it would recompense doubtlesse some of our sinnes and couâ—r a number of my misdeedes And euer whilest we liue let vs praise God that in this time of temptation he hath not suffered vs to fall as our sinnes haue deserued into the misery of these forsakers To whom if I speake sometimes in this treatise more sharply then my custome or nature requireth the zeale of truth and iust indignation towards heresie with the example of our forefathers must be my excuse and warrant I wil be as plain for the vnlearneds sakes as I may the matter suffer And therfore now at the first I will open the very ground as neare as I can of so necessary an article that the ignorance of any one peece may not darken the whole cause Desiring the studious to reade the whole discourse because euery peculiar pointe so ioyntly dependeth of the residewe that the knowledge of one orderly geueth light to all the other And so the whole togither I â—rust shall reasonably satisfie his desire 3 Here as I take it in the second face of the 18. leafe beginneth the 3. matter promised in the argument namely a briefe note of the authors intent c. The chiefe consideration as I gather is for that men endeuour not to make amendes and recompence by satisfying for their sinnes and therefore for answering some part of Gods iustice and perfect purging of the same sinnefull life past there remayneth sharpe punishment after this lyfe I will commit to Christ to be reueÌ„ged the horrible iniury done to his death and bloud shedding which if it be not a full aunswering of Gods iustice and a perfect purging of all our sinnefull life in vaine shall we seeke it else where But I will reason with M. Allen in his owne principles What say you Sir remayneth there some part of Gods iustice to be aunswered by suffering Surely if the passion of Christ will not serue that was the immaculate lambe of God it were straunge that the suffering of a sinnefull man should satisfie the same And if suffering of the party that hath sinned be necessarily required for aunswering some part of
person A childe then of this houshold continuing in fauour though he can not euerlastingly perish with the impenitent sinners yet he must being not by some especial prerogatiue pardoned beare the rodde of his fathers discipline And gladly say with the prophet In flagella paratus sum I am ready for the roddes And whatsoeuer these wantons that are runne out of this house for their owne ease or other mennes flattery shal forge let vs continue in perpetuall cogitation of our sinnes forgeuen and by all meanes possible recompence our negligences past Let vs not think but God hath somewhat to say to vs euen for our offences pardoned being thus warned by â—is owne mouth Sed habeo aduersum te pauca quòd charitatem tuam primam reliquisti Memor esto itaque vnde excideris age poeniteÌ„tiam prima opera fac But somewhat I haue against thee because thou art fallen from thy first loue Remembre therefore from whence thou fell do penaunce and beginne thy former workes againe And the consideration of this diuersitie betwixt remission had by baptisme and after relapse by the sacrament of penaunce moued Damascen to call this second remedie Baptismum vere laboriosum quod per poenitentiam lachrymas perficitur A kinde of Baptisme full of trauell by penaunce and teares to be wroght In which God so pardoneth sinnes that both the offence it selfe and the euerlasting paine due for the same being wholy by Christes death merites wyped away there may yet remaine the debt of temporal punishmeÌ„t on our parte to be discharged as well for some satisfactioÌ„ of Gods iustice against the eternal ordre wherof we vnworthely offended as for to aunswere the Church of her right as S. Austine saith in which only al sinnes be forgeueÌ„ Mary when occasion of satisfying for our offensies in this life is neglected or lacke of time by reason of longe continuance and late repentaunce suffereth not due recompense in our life which is the time of mercie then certes the hand of God shall be much more heuie and the punishment more greuous And this is with out doubt to be looked for that the debt due for sinne must either here by paine or pardon be discharged or els to our greater grief after our departure required CAP. I. 1 ALthough the argument of this chapter be but one yet I thought it good to diuide the answere into two partes The former part containeth his proposition the latter his confirmation And first concerning the sufficiency of Christes redemption there is nothing can be spoken so magnifically but that the worthines thereof passeth and excedeth it I will therefore agree with you in that you say of the comfort sufficiency and aboundant pâ—â—ce of the death of Christ and I would you would alwayes agre with your selfe in the constant confession of the same truth I receaue also that which you affirme that the benefit of his death extendeth also to the members of his mystical body But in that which you make to be the onely meane whereby the same is conueyed and applyed vnto vs I can not but dissent from your iudgement For the meane on Gods behalfe by which we are made partakers of the fruites of Christes passion and so grafted into his body is his holy spirite of promise which is the earnest and assuraunce of our inheritaunce who worketh in vs fayth as the onely meane by which the righteousnes of Christ is applyed vnto vs Eph. 1. And as for the Sacraments which you seeme to make the onely condittes of Gods mercy we are taught in the holy Scriptures that they are the seales of Gods promises geuen for the confirmation of our fayth as was circumcision to Abraham when he was iustified before through faith Rom. 4. You will vs in the margent to marke the grounde of your cause which is in deede a good admonition For seeing the grounde of your cause leaneth vpon your onely affirmation and is contrary to thautority of Gods word iniurious to the spirite of God and neglecting the fayth of Christ what so euer you buyld thereuppon must needes be like the foundation But howe shoulde your free will be maintayned if Gods spirite had any place that distributeth to euery one according to the good pleasure of his owne will. 1. Cor. 12. And how should the Sacrament geue grace of the worke wrought if fayth were requisite in them that receiue them Of like authority it is which you say that like effect is not geuen to all the Sacramentes Surely all the Sacramentes of Christes institution haue lyke effect in Gods elect But let vs heare your difference By baptisme all sinne committed before and the punishment thereof is clearely forgeuen by the Sacrament of penaunce though the sinne be forgiuen yet there remayneth a temporal punishment When the Pope geueth a general pardon à poena culpa doth he not it by the sacrament of penaunce if he do it by that sacrament then are temporall paines also remitted therby Thus one falshod ouerthroweth an other But Christ you say the author of this sacrament meant not to communicate such efficacie â—o this as to Baptisme Here are two assertions first of the author then of the force of this Sacrament but neither of both able to be proued by the word of god Neuerthelesse here is brought in that which is thought to be the piller not onely of purgatory but also of all other popish satisfactions namely the chastisement and correction that God ministreth to his children whose sinnes he hath pardoned which is not a satisfaction for the sinnes past but a warning for the time to come and is neuer accompted in scripture for an answering of Gods iustice but a token of his mercy being not the punishment of a iudge but the chastisement of the father to the amendement of his childe that suffereth and for an admonition of other that they likewise offend not Heb 12. And after this manner are also those places to be vnderstood where God is sayd to punish the offences of his children But whereas M. Allen allegeth the saying of Christ vnto the Angell of the Church of Ephesus Apoc. 2. But I haue somewhat against thee c. to proue that God hath somewhat to say for our offences pardoned I maruell whether he were sleeping or waking when he wrote it for there the pastor and Church is charged for their offence which is not to be pardoned except they repent if they repent to be clearly remitted But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or age poenitentiam with M. Allen is doe penaunce doing of penaunce with him soundeth to make satisfaction He professeth in one place his ignoraunce in the Greeke tongue but if he would but acknowledge what poenitere in Latine signifieth to be sory he neede not to haue occupied him selfe in alleging that place But proceding a litle further he maketh two causes why the debt of temporall punishment remaineth to be
to the places of punishment in the next life let them with purgatory rase vp the fathers resting place so plainely set forth by scripture beleued of the whole Church and alwayes taught by the holy fathers Yea let them that will haue no place for sinners finde with blasphemie hell like torments for Gods owne Sonne with the damned spirites My hearte surely will scarse serue me to report it and yet cursed Caluine was not afearde to write it and with arrogant vauntes against the blessed fathers to auouch the same That miserable forsaken man sawe that the onely graunt of the olde fathers punishment by the lacke of euerlasting ioye might of force driue him to acknowledge that God sometimes exerciseth his iustice vpon those which he loueth in the next life and so consequently that Purgatory paynes might be inferred therevppon therefore he fell headelong to this horrible blasphemye that Christ went not to loose any from the paynes of the next life but to be punished in hell with the deadely damned him selfe for to amend the lacke of his passion vppon the Crosse. O our cursed tyme O corrupt conditions this beast writeth thus agaynst our blessed Sauiours death and against the sufficiency of the abundant price of our redemption and yet he liueth in mans memory yea his bookes be greedely redd redde Nay by such as would be counted the chiefe of the cleargy and beare Byshops names they are commaunded to be redde and the very booke wherein this all other detestable doctrine is vttered especially by their authority commended to the simple Curats study that they might there learne closely in deuilish bookes such wicked heresies as the preachers them selues dare not yet in the light of the world vtter nor maintaine But other be not so farre fallen therefore they must of reason confesse that God by iust correction hath before Christes comming visited in the next world many hundred yeares togither the sinnes of those whome he dearly loued Although not onely in all that time the soules of the holy Patriarches felt the lacke of the aboundant fruition of the Maiesty but also for sinne they both then in rest and now in vnspeakeable felicity want till this day the encrease of ioy and blesse that by the receauing of their bodyes yet lying in dust they are vndoubtedly sure of Therfore it is ouer much presumption to limit the maiesty of God in the gouernment of his owne creatures to the borders of our short life and almost it toucheth his very prouidence with iniury to say that he letteth him scape without punishment for his sinnes that repented not till the houre of death as for whom he hath no scourge in the next life as he had here if death had not preuented his purpose These childish cogitations can not stand with the righteousnes of his will that for the first sinne committed doth not onely punish many euerlastingly of the forsaken sorte but also for the same punisheth both his best beloued in earth and for a time abateth the felicity of the blessed Sainctes in heauen But I will not stray after these men My matter is so fruitefull that I may not roue And though the sectes of these dayes haue so infected euery braunch of our christian faith that a man can not well ouerpasse them what so euer he taketh in hand yet I will not medle with them no further then shall concerne the quicke of our cause and the necessary light of our matter 5 Now this lusty gallaunt as though he had fully repayred and fortified the olde ruinous and battered towers of limbus patrum with canuas paynted walls he standeth vpon his bulwarke of browne paper and cryeth defiaunce to all his enemies and especially he vttereth his spite agaynst Caluine as a notorious enemy of his cause quarel Whom because he is to young to encounter withall by any witt learning reason or truth he spitteth out against him most impudent sclaunders raylings and lyes in which faculty he hath striued so much to shew him selfe eloquent that not satisfying him selfe with the voyce of a man he hath borrowed the tongue of the Deuill him selfe or at the least wise for feare he should not lye throughly geuen ouer his shamelesse tongue to be wagged by the father of lyes For what man with any shewe of humane reason would accuse Caluine to deny the sufficiency of the redemptiō of Christ to affirme that Christ went downe into hell after his death to be punished there with the damned him selfe for to amend the lacke of his passion vpon the crosse whose doctrine God him selfe the Angells and all the world doth knowe and testifie to be directly contrary to these sclaunders For who euer more constantly affirmed or more substantially proued the sufficiency of our redemption by Christes death what asse so vnlearned if he can but conster Caluins latine in his catechisme institutions or any part of his workes where he entreateth of that article of Christes descense in to hell may not plainly see that he vtterly denieth his descending into hell after his life affirming the same to be vnderstood of the wrath of God which he sustayned for our sinnes before his death at that time especially when he that was God complained that he was forsaken of God which mystery if M. Allen vnderstand not it is no maruell seeing he abridgeth so much the benefite of Christes redemption as all papistes doe alwayes and he specially in this his defence of purgatory and yet he is not ashamed to say of Caluine this beaste writeth against our blessed Sauiours death If I did not moderate somwhat my corrupt affections I could requite him the like reproches but this much I must needes say Is Caluine a beast for speaking the truth to the glory of Christes redemption Allen an honest man for sclaundering him to the defacing of Gods honour But because he would not be thought to haue spued oute all his poison against Caluine he goulpeth vp an other bowlefull of rayling and sclaundering against our Bishoppes who haue not onely suffered but also commended Caluins bookes to be reade and studied of the simple curates affirming that they doe priuily set forth by books that which they dare not openly preach If euery man that can be a witnesse that M. Allen lyeth in this matter should pull one heare from his heade or bearde they would leaue him neuer an heare of an honest man behinde them But that he maie returne to his gentle aduersaries with whome is lesse daungerous dealing there be some he sayth that graunt the punishment of the fathers after their death of whose liberall concession he doubteth not but to patch vp his Purgatory In which practise he is not vnlike a fonde fellowe of whome I haue hearde men iest in Cambridge who when he was non plus as they terme it in disputation and all his argument spent that he had prouided Now sayth he will I dispute of your concesses
you must repeat that which is nothing like to your matter Paula was penitent for her sinnes with prayers almes and fasting and all for feare of purgatory So sayth M. Allen. But Ieronyme sayth not so M. Allen is here all the credit of the matter beleue him as you list But if any man had rather beleue Chrysostome speaking of such kind of workes as M. Allen and his fellowes count to be the chiefe workes of penaunce whether they serue for satisfaction for our sinnes vnto God let him consider what he writeth in his treatise de compunctione cordis lib. 2. Non requirit Deus ciliciorum pondus neque concludi inter angustias cellulae neque in obscuris antris tencbrosis sedere iubet hoc solum est quod exposcatur à nobis vt semper recordemur mala nostra c. God requireth not the burden of heauy garments not to be shut vp with the streights of a litle cell neither doth he commaund vs to sit in obscure and darke dungeons or dennes this onely is that which is required of vs that we should alwayes remember our euill life c. you see therefore by Chrysostoms iudgement that neither the satisfaction of Gods righteousnes nor any obedience of Gods commaundement hath banished the Heremites closed vp the Anachorets and cloyed the world with cloysterers but the superstitious and slauish feare of purgatory the blasphemous presumptuous pride of mens merites I passe ouer as not proper to your matter that for the honour of Christ you except his mother from confessing her selfe to be indebted to God and not to be in the numbre of those by whome the Lordes prayer is to be sayd Such honor neither doth God allowe her nor she arrogate vnto her selfe but acknowledgeth her owne basenesse and ioyfully accepteth Gods saluation It is greater honor to Christ to be sauiour of his mother then to haue such a mother as had no neede of his saluation He him selfe more then once is reade to haue reproued her wherein he had done her wrong if she had committed no trespasse Luke 2. Iohn 2. 6 But list you see how this doctrine of penaunce liked Caluine The shrew saw that by graunting of this satisfaction for sinne and the profitable vsage thereof in this life that it might argue of necessitie the residue of some paines in the next if it were here omitted or not ended And therefore I pray you see how substantially he aunswereth and how like him selfe Parumme mouent sayth he quae in veterum scriptis de satisfactione passim occurrunt video enim eorum nonnullos dicam simpliciter omnes fere quorum libri extant aut in hac parte lapsos esse aut nimis aspere dure loquutos I make small accompt of that which I often finde concerning Satisfaction in the auncient writers for I perceiue diuers of them shall I be plaine with you in a maner euery one that euer wrote till this daye in this point to haue bene fouly deceiued or spoken more roughly then they shoulde haue done Is not this a fellow a lone whether thinke you now our English bragger craking all the doctors to be on his parte or this man confessing plainely that they be all against him and yet setting not a butten by them all whether thinke you is more arrogant I am sure Caluine dealeth here more sincerely and the other more deceitfully If craking had bene a maisterie in sommer games as lying is our man might haue wone of all the worlde two games at a clappe But there is no remedy he must yelde to the learned that haue opened his impudencie Therefore I leaue him and take the benefit of this his maisters confession for further confirmatiō of my cause doubting nothing but that most wise men seeing by the aduersaries graunt all learned fathers to be on our side will accept it either as a full proofe or no small presumption of that trueth which we defend 6 But list you heare how this presumptuousse pratler can not conclude his chapter which he began with lying vpon Melancthon but by slaundering of Caluine He faineth that Caluine in the wordes by him rehersed confesseth all the doctors to be against him and yet setteth not a butten for them all The best reproofe of this calumniation shal be to sende them that be desirous to know the trueth vnto the whole discourse of Caluine vpon satisfaction Insti lib. 3. cap. 4 which who so list to doe shall plainely see whether Allen doth him not here open wrong But because euery man either can not for the lacke of the booke or will not for want of good affections towardes Caluine take so much paines as to peruse his owne writing I will aunswere in a worde or two After that Caluine hath most substantially proued both by authority of holy Scripture and also by consent of auncient doctors that their is no satisfaction vnto God for our sinnes but onely the death of Christ he cōmeth at length to speake of the worde of satisfaction which sayth he as it is often vsed in the olde writers so sometime hardely as improperly that M. Allen calleth roughly or if any of them haue erred about satisfaction it were not reason that their error shoulde preuaile against the open trueth And cleerely to conuicte M. Allen of a loude lye where he sayth that Caluine confesseth all the doctors to be against him his wordes follow immediatly after those rehersed by M. Allen Sed non credam eos ipsos adeo fuisse rudes imperitos vt eo sensu illa scripserint quo à nouis istis satisfactionariis legūtur That is how soeuer they haue either erred or spoken vnproprely of satisfaction yet I will not graunt that the same men were so rude and ignoraunt that they did wright those thinges in that sense in which they are read by these new satisfactionaries Then doth he bring forth diuers testimonies both out of Chrysostome and Augustine to shew what their iudgement was of satisfaction agreable to the Scriptures by which must be expounded what so euer they haue vttered that seemeth either erroneus or at the lest vnproprely spoken As for that reuerend father M. Iewell whome this arrogant Louanist calleth the English bragger how well he hath answered his challendge his owne learned labors do more cleerely testifie vnto the worlde then that it can be blemished by this sycophants braynlesse babling A briefe ioyning in reason and argument vpon the proued groundes vvith the aduersaries for the declaration of Purgatory CAP. V. 1 HAving vndoubtedly wonne thus much both by euidēt testimony of holy writ by the warraunt of all the learned fathers by good reason and by the aduersaries owne confession I will be bolde to bare the very iointes of the argument that both the simple may acknowledge my plaine dealing and the Protestant haue his vauntage if the reason stand not vpright VVith out colour or glose then thus I make my proofe
vnsemely wrething or wraesting do so plainely beare that if ours were a sense neuer hearde of before yet the onely comparing of the textes and necessary circumstancies of the letter might rather driue vs to that meaning then any other that they can euer alleage or proue But now as Catholikes euer do keping the olde meaning and forging no newe geuing no other sense then that which the persuasion of all Christian people both learned and simple hath driuen from the beginning of our faith downe to our dayes and framing no other vnderstanding then that which we finde expressely in the learning and faith of our fathers both set forth and proued who is so rude in iudgement or so entangled with any contrary opinion that will not acknowledge the trueth and doctrine euery waye so compassed with proofe and all likelihoods CAP. VII 1 THat the iudgement of God beginneth at the death of euery man and so continueth vntil the full manifestation therof in the last day is clearer by the Scripture of God then that it needeth the confirmatioÌ„ of mans authoritie But that Ambrose is alleged to proue that euery man immediatly after his death doth feele that he must looke for in the daye of iudgement I meruaile to what purpose it is brought in if it be not to ouerthrow purgatory For if it be true as it must needes be no man feeleth paine after this life but he that shall feele it eternally And surely to the same effect he speaketh in his booke de bono mortis where he commendeth the death of the faithfull quia deteriorem statum non efficit sed qualem in singulis inuenerit talem iudicio fururo reseruat quietè ipsis fouet praesentium inuidiae subducit futurorum expectatione componit Because death maketh not their state worse but such as it findeth in euery man such it reserueth into the iudgement to come and quietly chierisheth them and both taketh them away from the enuy of things present and setleth them in expectation of things to come Thus sayth Ambrose plainely in this place what soeuer he speaketh allegorically of the fiery sword in other places VVell it is euident you saie that the soules departed sleepe not of which error Luther also was noted I neuer harde any man of credit note him therof who is well knowne to haue bene of a cleane contrary iudgement but I reade in the actes of the Councel of Constance that Pope Iohn the 23 was condemned for denying the immortality of the soule the resurrection of the deade and the life euerlasting But if the soules sleepe not then they be awake in purgatory or if ye reason not so subtilly you meane that if they be at all in purgatory they be there immediatly after their departure out of their bodyes But how shall we proue that they come there at all Forsooth by the sayings of the Prophet and of the Apostle before alleged which are so plaine proofe and so euident to be vnderstoode of them selues that they nede none other interpretation But how plaine it is that they serue nothing to that purpose I haue sufficiently declared already yet must we further follow the same matter because here are brought in the authoritie of the doctors to agree with M. Allens glose 2 But as reason is and my promise was at the beginning I will let the good Christian see the wordes of most notable auncient writers that he may reioyse his faith to be so surely grounded First then you shall perceiue that S. Augustine expoundeth the texte of the prophet Malachie before recited for purgatory paines euen as I saide I am certaine he may much moue our aduersaries as one whome they chalenge to be patrone of some of their opinions but how vniustly in all pointes God knoweth and in this matter especially you shall now perceiue After the rehersall of the Prophets wordes and well weying of the matter he thus writeth Ex ijs quae dicta sunt videtur euidentius apparere in illo iudicio quasdam quorundam purgatorias poenas futuras Vbi enim dicitur Quis substinebit diem introitus eius aut quis ferre poterit vt aspiciat eum quia ipse ingreditur quasi ignis conflatorij quasi herba lauantium sedebit conflans emundans sicut argentum aurum emundabit filios Leui fundet eos sicut aurum sicut argentum quid aliud intelligendum est dicit tale aliquid Isaias Lauabit dominus sordes filiorum filiarum Syon sanguinem emundabit de medio eorum spiritu iudicij spiritu combustionis Nisi sortè sic eos dicendum est emundari à sordibus eliquari quodammodo cuÌ„ ab eis mali per poenale iudicium separantur vt illorum segregatio atque damnatio purgatio sit istorum quia sine talium de coetero commixtione victuri sunt sed cum dicit emundabit filios Leui fundet eos sicut aurum argentum erunt domino offerentes hostias in iusticia placebit domino sacrificium Iuda Hierusalem Vtique ostendit eos ipsos qui emundabuntur deinceps in sacrificijs iusticiae domino esse placituros ac per hoc ipsi a sua iniustitia emundabuntur in qua domino hostiae displicebant porrò in plena perfectaque iustitia ipsi erunt cum mundati fuerint quid enim acceptius deo tales offerunt quà m seipsos verum ista quaestio de Purgatorijs poenis vt diligentius pertractetur in tempus aliud differenda est thus in english By the foresaide wordes in semeth very euident that in the time of that iudgement there shall be certaine Purgatory paines for some sort of men For when it is saide Who can be able to susteine the day of his comming who can stand in his sight because he shall sit trying out and purifying as it were golde and siluer and entre in like the fier of the fornace and as washers sope he shall make cleane the sonnes of Leui shall trie them as golde and siluer VVhat other thing by all these wordes can be ment but purgatory paines Namely seeing the prophet Esaie hath the like in these wordes God shall washe a waye the filthe of the sonnes and daughters of Syon and purge bloude from the middest of them in the spirite of iudgement and fier Except a man might conueniently say that they shall be washed from filthe and as you would say newe fourged when the wicked by finall iudgement are seuered out of their company that so their departure and damnation may be the purgation of the rest because after that day they shall liue for euer without the company of the badde But when the Prophet sayth more that he will clense the children of Leuy and purify them as golde and siluer that they may offer their oblations in righteousnesse and the sacrifice of Iuda and Hierusalem shall please our Lorde He â—urely giueth vs
incredulity to blaspheme these peculiar steppes of the spirite S. Cyprian complaineth of such misbeleuers in his time that woulde not agree to the trueth after especiall reuelations had of the same VVhich kinde of men he noteth in the latter ende of an epistle by these wordes Quanquam sciam omnia ridicula visiones ineptas quibusdam videri sed vtique illis qui malunt contra sacerdotes credere quam sacerdoti Sed nihil mirum quando de Ioseph fratres sui dixerunt ecce somniator ille venit Although sayth he I know right well howe litle accompte they make of visions which they esteeme as mere trieftes But yet it is such onely that had rather beleeue against then with Gods priestes And no meruaill that is seeing good Iosephs owne brethern saide by him in mockage Lo yender comes the dreamer So did they scoffe at him because he had more familiarity with the spirite of God then the other had 4 Now followeth a large and needelesse apologie of visions and reuelations the doctrine of which is briefely and plainely set forth in the worde of God what so euer is consonant to the word of God is to be receiued that which is not agreable therewith is to be detested although not a man from purgatory but an angell from heauen were the bringer of it Then seeing the doctrine of purgatory is blasphemous against the merites of Christes death though all those fables of visions that are fayned to defende it were true stories yet are we nothing moued with them I passe ouer the impudency of this man which is not ashamed to compare so many thousand fables or illusions of Sathan as are reported to the maintaining of purgatory to the reuelation of S. Paule and the Apocalypse of S. Iohn or the appering of Moses and Elias with christ They may be in deede a great nombre of them not vnlike to that spirite of Samuell which was raised by the witche which as Augustine affirmeth and M. Allen dare not simply deny was the spirite of the Deuill him selfe 5 Now as the ioyes of heauen Paradise with the tormeÌ„t of sinners and other secrets of the next life haue bin straungly represented to some one or other in all ages by sundry meanes most expedient to our saluation and most seemely to the wisedom and will of the worker so certainely no article was euer with more force of spirite or more graue authority set forth sence the beginning of Christian religion then this one of Purgatory Neuer nation was conuerted to the faith but it had this trueth not only taught by worde but by miracle also confirmed And namely in that aboundant floode of faith when it pleased God almost at once to spreade his name amongest all these contryes it was thought most necessary to his diuine wisedome together with the true worship of his name to plant in all faithfull mens heartes the awe and necessary feare of that greeuous torment for the reuenge and iust iudgement of wicked life This greeuous payne was vttered by the very sufferers them selues as we may see in the notable histories of Paschasius and Iustus reported by S. Gregories owne mouth This greeuous punishment was agayne declared by Furseus who as the reuerent Bede reporteth had the beholding of the eternall blesse the euerlasting miâ—ery and the temporall payne of the next life Drichelmus also by the ordinaunce of God taken from amongst mortall men into the state of the next world after he had seene likewise the terrible iudgement of God practised euen vpon the elect was restored to life againe in our owne nation and was a witnesse worthy of all credit of this same truth not only by his word wherof he was so sparing all his life time after that he would not vtter this same mistery but with singular care and respect of the persons intent that asked him thereof but namely by passing great penaunce and incredible chastising of his body which proceded of the sensible knowledge that he had of the paynes prepared And being asked sometime as holy Bede sayth why he so tormented him selfe in the willing toleration of extreme heate or contrary cold both of frost and snow he made aunswere simply and shortly Frigidiora ora ego vidi austeriora ego vidi Ah maisters I haue seene colder I haue seene sharper Meaning by the vnspeakeable paines of Purgatory The whole history of his visions with many the like may be reade in the Ecclesiasticall history of our owne nation written by as faithfull a witnesse as euer was borne in our lande of such vertue that he woulde begile no man willingly of so great wisedome that he woulde report no tale nor triefle rashly of such grace and learning that he was well able to disâ—erne a false fable and superstitious illusion from a true and diuine reuelation For as it were foly and mere vanity to geue credit to euery spirite so to condemne a spirite or reuelation or any worke of Gods finger approued by the Church of God in which there hath euer bene the gifte of discerning spirites it is properly a sinne against the holy Ghost And because euery man hath not that gifte as I woulde not counsell any man ouer lightely to geue credit to euery priuat spirite and peculiar vision because they may come of wicked intentes and sinister motions so I thinke it were good in feare reuerence and humility to commit the discerning of such thinges to the spirite and iudgement of Gods Church VVith the belefe of euery peculiar mans phantasie we are not charged with humble submission of our whole life and belefe to the Church of Christ there are we especially charged And because there is nothing reported either in the workes of S. Gregory or in Bede or in Damascen or in any other the like concerning the paines either of the elect or the damned in the next life but as much hath bene vttered before by all the holy and learned fathers in great agony of minde and feare of the saide iudgement we may be the more bolde to thinke the best or rather we are bounde to thinke the best of that spirite which so conformably agreeth with the doctrine of the Church and faith of all the fathers There can no man say more of Purgatory nor more plainely then S. Ambrose being in a maner a frade him selfe of wasting away in that horrible tormeÌ„t none more effectually then S. Augustine that confesseth there is no earthely paine comparable vnto it none more fearefully then Eusebius Emissenus who termeth it skaulding waues of fire none more pithely then Paulinus that calleth those places of iudgements Ardentes tenebras burning darknesse More peculiarly may the circumstances and condicion of that state by God be reueled but the trueth thereof can not be more plainely declared nor better proued These babes feared no bugges I warraunt you neither picked they Purgatory out of Scipio his dreame
ante iudicium purgatorius ignis credendus est pro eo quod veritas dicit Si quis in sancto Spiritu blasphemiam dixerit neque in hoc saeculo remittetur ei neque in futuro In qua sententia datur intelligi quasdam culpas in hoc saeculo quasdam in futuro posse relaxari quod enim de vno negatur consequens intellectus patet quia de quibusdam conceditur sed tamen vt praedixi hoc de paruis minimisque peccatis fieri posse credendum est For certaine small sinnes that there is a purgatory fire before the daye of iudgement we must needes beleue because the trueth it selfe vttered so much in these wordes If any sinne against the holy Ghost it shall not be remitted neither in this worlde nor in the worlde to come By which sentence it is geuen vs to vnderstande that as some offensies be released in this worlde so there may some other be remitted in the life following For that which is denyed in one sorte the meaning is plaine that of some other kinde it must needes be graunted But as is saide before this is onely to be taken of lighter offensies thus farre spake S. Gregory and proueth learnedly beside by examples and sondry Scriptures through out the whole worke our matter If our aduersaries woulde with desire to learne as they commonly do to reprehend reade but his discourse onely they might quickely see their owne foly and amende their misbelefe They call him the last good Pope as he was in deede a blessed man and by his authority the perfect conuersion of our nation to Christes faith was wrought I woulde his holy workes deserued but as much credit now with certaine forsakers as his Legates then did with all the vnfaithfull people of our countrie But to go forwarde in our matter we shall finde in S. Bernarde the same wordes of our Sauiour alleaged for our purpose thus Non credunt ignem Purgatorium restare post mortem sed statim animam solutam a corpore vel ad requiem transire vel ad damnationem quaerant ergo ab eo qui dixit quod dam peccatum esse quod neque in hoc saeculo neque in futuro remittetur cur hoc dixerit si nulla maner in futuro remissio purgatione peccati They beleue not sayth he by some heretiques of his owne time that there is any purgatory paines remaining after death but they suppose that the soule straight vpon departure hense goeth either to rest or damnation let such fellowes aske therefore of him that saide a certaine greuous crime coulde neither be forgeuen in this worlde nor in the worlde to come why he so saide if there were no remission nor purgation of sinnes in the life following thus said Bernarde opening his graue iudgement both vpon the text and our matter whose authority if any esteme lesse because of his late writing let him know that the aduersaries haue none for their side so auncient by C C C. yeare except they name the heretike Aërius or such like whose antiquitye maketh not so much for them as his auncient condemnation for heresie in this poynt maketh against them 2 M. Allen in his conscience knoweth that he hath no grounde in the authority of Gods word and therefore he flyeth to the authority of man But that he might seeme to be driuen perforce to that where vnto he doth come most willingly he pretendeth a fonde excuse because he hath to doe with such fickle marchaunts as wil not sticke to breake boldly the bands of euident Scriptures But he knoweth in his conscience that he hath no authoritye of Scripture to charge vs for if he thought we would breake the bonds of Gods word he might well thinke we would not be holden by the authoritie of mens writing and those of the latter sort six hundreth yeares after Christ the eldest For Augustine makeâ—h as litle for them as he doth against vs Gregory and Bernarde whereunto he addeth Bede are of opinion that sinnes not remitted in this world may be remitted in the world â—o come but how hapneth it that Chrysâ—stome and Ieronym which both interpreted that place could gather no such matter although they otherwise allowed prayer for the dead The reason must needes be because the errour of purgatory growing so much the stronger as it was nerer to the full reuelation of Antichrist Gregory and Bede sought not the true meaning of Christ in this Scripture but the confirmation of their pausible error M. Allen thinketh we must be sore pressed with the authoritie of Gregory because we mâ—slike not his authority where he inueigheth against the supremacy of one Bishop aboue all other or where so euer he agreeth with the truth But he must be once againe admonished that we are bound to no mannes authoritie no longer then he followeth the authoritie of Gods word And therefore though Gregory were the last of all the Romish Bishops in whom was any sparke of goodnes because Boniface his successor and so all the rest by Gregoryes owne iudgement prophecy were all Antichristes yet is not all that Gregory writte of equall authoritie with the word of God without authoritie whereof we beleue not an Angell from heauen as I haue often shewed much lesse a Bishop of Rome 3 But that in the mouth of two or three witnesses all trueth may appeare and contrary falsehood vanish away S. Augustine him selfe gathered by this place now alleaged euen then when he had no occasion geuen him by the wrangling of any misbeleuer to wreast any scripture otherwise then the very wordes imported the trueth of remission of certaine faultes in the next life in these wordes Facta resurrectione mortuoruÌ„ non deerunt quibus post poenas quas patiuntur spiritus mortuorum impertiatur misericordia vt in ignem non mittantur aeternuÌ„ neque enim de quibusdam veraciter diceretur quod non eis remittetur neque in hoc saeculo neque in futuro nisi essent quibus etsi non in isto tamen remittetur in futuro There shall be certaine at the time of resurrection also who shal obteine mercy after they haue suffered such paines as deade mens ghostes do abide that they be not cast into the euerlasting fire for els it coulde not in any true sense be spoken that certaine shoulde neither haue pardon in this worlde nor in the worlde to come except there were some that speeding not of pardon in this life might yet haue remission in the next so sayth he Being I warraunt you so sadde witted and so farre from phantasies that he would not grounde any assured doctrine vpon euery light occasion offered or motion made had not the very words and forme of phrase approued it and Gods Church liked it Hauing then these graue fathers with others for our warraunt in the exposition of this place we do take it for a sure grounde that the paine of purgation in the next worlde
for the soules resurrectionis spes solidatur the hope of resurrection is established And therefore Dionysius the auncient in his misticall prayer and saâ—râ—fice for the departed declareth that there was a minister that did solemnely recite certaine places out of scripture for to confirme the hope of resurrection So that this practise of the faithfull hath not onely bene euer accompted a plaine trueth but it hath bene a grounde and a principle to confirme the article of resurrection and immortality of the soule And therefore the facte of Iudas is with such commendation mentioned in the scripture For in those dayes the heresie of the Saduces denying the resurrection and the life to come as Iosephus writeth began to take greate holde amongest the Iewes about byshop Ionathas his time in which tiue of diuersity that true beleuer thought to make plaine protestation of his faith by his notable facte And now I must needes be bolde to tell these enemies of our communion that in acknowledging them selues to haue nothing to do with the soules departed they are at the next doore by to denie the immortalitie and to terme them deade soules as Vigilantius did VVhome Gods Church very conformably to Christes calling and fittly for the protesting the common faith nameth Dormientes in signo pacis Those that sleepe in the signe of peace and the named Scripture for the same cause calleth them men a sleepe in pietie VVell if their denial of prayers for the deceased grow so farre as the vtter impugning of Christian hope for the life euerlasting and so with purgatory take away hell and heauen togither as the Sadduces did which God of his might turne from them but if they doe because there is such affinitie betwixt both their teachings and this of theirs may seeme alwayes to haue bene ioyned to that extreme falshoode of the others then shall Gods Church still protest the faith of her children by prayers and practise for the deade both by the example of the fathers in Christes Church vnder the Gospell and by the fact of worthy Iudas in the lawe before CAP. III. 1 WE haue all this while called for authoritie of the scripture now we shall haue scripture I trowe or else M. Allen shall misse of his purpose Sacrifice almes prayers commended by scripture to be meanes to helpe the soules in purgatory And the scripture is written 2. Machab. 12. Prothesauro carbones we haue founde coles in the steed of treasure Is this all the scripture we are like to haue this hath bene aunswered of olde to be no holy nor canonicall scripture and that by many reasons First because it conteineth matter contrary to the vndoubted worde of god I omit this matter in coÌ„trouersy in the 14. chap. the author of the booke commendeth one Razis for killing him selfe which is contrary to the word of god Wherefore M. Allen by authoritie of this booke the example of a good man Razis may as well conclude that it is lawfull for men to kill them selues as by the example of Iudas that men may offer sacrifice for the dead Secondly the author of this booke declareth that he abridgeth the fiue bookes of Iason the Cyrenian into this one which is a manifest argument that he was not the instrument of the holy Ghost For the holy Ghost maketh no abridgements of others mens writings Againe the purpose of the author proueth that he was not directed by Gods spirite for he confesseth that he tooke this matter in hande that men might haue pleasure in it which could not away with the tedious long stories of Iason But the spirite of God serueth not such vayne delight of men Moreouer he sheweth what labour and sweate it was to him to make this abridgement and to be short he maketh a very prophane preface ambitiously commending his trauell and shewing the difference betwene a story at large and an abridgment all which thinges sauour nothing of that spirite by which the holy Scriptures of God were written which as S. Peter sheweth came not by priuate mens will and ordinance but the holy men of God spake as they were inspired by the holy Ghost 2. Pet. 1. where as all this preface sheweth nothing but a priuate motion an humane purpose And yet the man is to be commended for this that he doth not boast of any more reuelation then he had but in the end of this booke coÌ„fesseth his infirmity desireth pardoÌ„ which is as farre from the maiesty of gods spirit as it is agreeable to the weakenes of our deceiuable nature which are apt to deceiue and be deceiued If I haue wel done sayth he and as the story required it is the thing I desired but if I haue spoken slenderly and barely it is that I could For as it is hurtfull to drinke wine alone and then agayne water and as wine tempered with water is pleasant and delighteth the tast so the setting out of the matter delighteth the eares of them that readeth the story c. Who is so voyd of the spirite of God that can not see plainly that this man had neither the purpose to write that which shoulde instruct much lesse that should bind the consciences of men neither the gift so to write as in writing he could not erre But now to come to the text it selfe first the greeke copy in this place is so mangled and corrupted that no good sense can be gathered of the wordes by which it appeareth that the deuils limbes haue bene â—umbling with this booke as they haue bene with the olde doctors in places where mention is of prayer for the deade Secondly seeing this facte of Iudas hath no commaundement in the law in which not so much as one pinne of the tabernacle was omitted lest any thing might be left to the will of man to deuise in the worship of God it is so farre of that it is to be drawne into example that we may be bold to condemne it for sinne disobedience you shall not doe sayth the Lord what seemeth good in your owne eyes but that which I commaund you that onely shall you doe without adding any thinge to it or taking away any thing from it But M. Allen thinketh he hath a sure post to leane vnto because Iudas Machabaeus did by this fast testifie his hope of the resurrection as Iasons abridger sayth and also that prayers for the deade may be an argument to proue the faith that men haue of the resurrection It is not vnlike that this reason preuayled much with the auncient fathers as appeareth by their writings for commonly it hath the best colour of any reason that they bring to allow prayers for the dead But if it be weighed with good iudgement it is of no force to proue that prayers for the dead are lawful For as truth may be proued alwayes with true principles so often tymes it may be concluded out of false affirmations As for example
Gods worde or authorities of scriptures but such as is so pitifully wrested and drawen vnto them as euery man may see the holy Ghost neuer ment any such thinge as they gather of them 3 Holde on vpwarde still and Tertullian will witnesse with thee that in that floure of Christes Church with in lesse then CC. yeares of our maisters death Oblationes fiebant annua die pro defunctis That oblations and sacrifice were yearly made at the xij monthes mindes of most men he meaneth both by the sacrifice of the Church and offeringes of the freindes of the departed as there also Repete apud Deum pro cuius spiritu postules pro qua oblationes annuas reddas Call to thy remembraunce for whose soule thou prayes and in whose behalfe thou makes yearly offeringes He speaketh of a freinde of his that practised thus for his wiues departure And in an other place he well declareth the duety of maried persons one towards an other if God by death separate them in sonder Pro anima eius orat refrigerium interim postulat offert annuis diebus dormitionis eius She prayeth for her husbandes soule and obteineth in the meane space ease and offereth euery yeare at the mind day of his passing hense And he letteth not to affirme that the maried couple that practise not thus do not beleue the resurrection Therefore he concludeth thus Nunquid nihil erimus post mortem secundum aliquem Epicurum non secundum Christum quòd si credimus mortuorum resurrectionem vtique tenebimur cum quibus resurrecturi sumus rationem de altetutro reddituri VVhat say you shall we fall to nothing after our death as the Epicure thinketh and not rise againe as Christ teacheth And if we beleue the resurrection of the deade then doubtlesse we shall be bounde to make accompt one of an other as we shall together rise againe Beware here my maisters once againe I must tell you you are going towardes the deniall of the resurrection so many as condemne the vsage of the Church in praying or offeringe for the deade Tertullian sayth you be Epicures in this point and so you be in all others I say you are past priuy muttering in your heartes that there is no God for you are come to plaine Manducemus bibamus cras enim moriemur Let vs eate and be mery we can not tell how longe we lieue I say you must aunswere for parting the affection of man and wife and the one must be countable at the day of iudgement to an other that they procured not the dueties of the deade by right of Gods holy Church for their soules departed Take heede therefore you are warned 3 Nay ho there M. Allen no higher then Tertullian And when we haue examined the testimonies of Tertullian in order as you haue brought them you shall haue small aduantage out of him yea your friendes shall thinke you had bene better to haue made no mention of him For first I must tell you that these three lines which are all that he hath written sounding that way are found in three bookes which all were written by him when he was an heretike separated from the catholike Church And therefore it may well be that all that he speaketh of prayers and oblations for the deade was onely in the conuenticles of the Montanistes of which sect he was an earnest defender rather then in the catholike Church And this coniecture seemeth the more probable because Cyprian which was afterward a catholike Bishop in the same city where Tertullian sometime had liued maketh no mention of prayers for the dead but onely of sacrifice for the Martyrs which was none other but the sacrifice of thankesgiuing lib. 4. Ep. 5. But admit that the Church of God in that time vsed these superstitious prayers and oblations for the deade let vs consider vpon what ground they were vsed The firsâ— place M. Allen allegeth in this forme Oblationes fiebant annua die pro defunctis But Tertullians wordes in libro de corona militis be these Oblationes pro defunctis pro natalitijs annua die facimus We make oblations for the dead for our birthes on the yearly day By which it is euident that M. Allen did not read these wordâ—s him selfe but receiued them of some other mans collection or sound them in some booke of common places But to the matter Tertullian him selfe shall say for me that the same custome with many other which he there rehearseth hath no ground in the holy Scripture Harum aliarum eiusmodi disciplinarum si leges expostules scripturarum nullam inuenies traditio tibi praetendetur autrix consuetudo confirmatrix fides obseruatrix Of those and such like disciplines if you require the lawes of the Scriptures you shall finde none tradition shall be pretended to you to be the author Custome the confirmer and faith the obseruer It is good to take that which is so franckly giuen and more is Tertullian to be commended that confesseth the ground of his errour not to be taken out of the word of God then they that labour to wreâ—t the Scriptures to find that which Tertullian confesseth is not to be found in them I knowe the Papistes will aunswere that tradition is of as good credit as the Scripture is the word of God vnwritten as well as the Scripture is the word of God written But why then doe they not obserue all other things that Tertullian in the same place affirmeth to be tradition if tradition be the word of God why doe they not giue to them that are newly baptised a temper of milke and hony and from the day of their baptisme forbid dayly washing all the weeke after Why doe they not count it a wicked thinge to fast on the Sunday or to pray and worship God on their knees Why doe they not count it a wicked thinge to fast betwene Easter Whitsontide or to pray on their knees all that time Finally why doe not they crosse them selues in the forehead at euery steppe they set forth at comming in at going out at putting on of garmentes at putting on of shoes at washing at the tables at lighting of candles at beddes at stooles and at all thinges what so euer they doe What aunswere can they here make but that their Church may dispense as well with the word of God vnwritten which they cal tradition as she doth against the word of God conteyned in the holy Scriptures So that alwayes what so euer they prate of antiquitie customs traditions vnwritten verities or the word of God vnwritten the authority of their blasphemous church is aboue them all Now to the second testimony alleged out of Tertullian S. Ieronym shall testifie for vs that this booke as the other that followeth was written against the Church so was also his booke de corona militis when he was out of the Church whereby it may
appeare what good authorities they are to proue the doctrine of the Church This booke de castitate he wrote to diswade a friend of his whose wife was dead that he should not marry agayne condemning second mariage for adultery as Montanus his maister did and laboureth to proue that he could not pray for his departed wiues soule nor offer the yearely oblation if he married an other To the same purpose he reasoneth in his booke de Monogamia where the wordes alleged by M Allen be so corrupted in all the coppyes that Beatus Rhenamus confesseth that no sense could be made of them and these wordes are the coniecturall correction of Beatus Rhenamus But let them be vndoubtedly the wordes of Tertullian as they seeme to be Here more manifestly then before he brocheth his heresie of condemning second mariages for in that the wife prayeth for her husbands soule and offereth c he would proue that she is still married to him and that she committeth adultery if she take an other directly contrary to the word of god Rom. 7. 1. Cor. 7. yet see either the ignorance or the malice of this Allen that allegeth those words of this writer by which he condemneth them that allow second mariage as denyers of the resurrection agaynst vs that deny prayers for the deade to be lawfull by the word of god And vseth the same reason and wordes to proue prayers for the dead to be allowable that Tertullian vseth to proue second mariages to be damnable For that accompt which Tertullian sayth men and women are bound vnto one to an other he meaneth of the promise of mariage once made betwene them which M. Allen like a wise yong man expoundeth prayers oblations for their soules The words of Tertullian following immediatly where M. Allen leaueth them are these Si autem in illo aeuo neque nubent neque nubentur sed erunt aequales Angelis non ideò non tenebimur coniugibus defunctis quia non erit restitutio coniugij At quin eò magis tenebimur quia in meliorem statum destinamur resurrecturi in spirituale consortium agnituri tam nosmet ipsos quam nostros c. But if in that time they shall neither marry nor be married but shall be equall to the Angells we shall not therfore not be bouÌ„d to our wiues departed because there shall not be a restitution of mariage But so much the more we shall be bounde because we are appoynted to a better state as they that shall ryse agayne into a spirituall fellowship and shall know agayne as well our selues as those that pertayne vnto vs Wherefore M. Allen once againe I must tell you that we woulde be sorrie to be so neere the deniall of the resurrection by denying prayers for the deade as you are towarde the heresy of the Montanistes in vsing such reasons to defend praying and offering for the deade as Tertullian a Montaniste vsed to mainteine his heresy but I shall haue further occasion to retorne to Tertullian when I shall proue that the opinion of purgatory came first frâ—â— heretikes 4 But as neere as we be Christes time by Tertullians helpe we will approch yet neerer to the very Apostles age and looke out some recorde of that time for oblations and distributions with memorialls for the departed And the further from you of the new sect we go the more plaine destruction of your doctrine and more manifest proofe of our olde deuotion shall we fiende to your open shame and the comfort of Catholikes S. Clement therefore the Romane one conuersaunt with the Apostles and instructed by them in his faith a familiar of S. Paule and promoted by S. Peter a true pastor and a holy martyr thus reporteth of the Apostles ordinaunce in our matter Peragatur dies mortuorum in Psalmis in lectionibus atque orationibus propter eum qui tertia die resurrexit Item nonus in commemorationem superstitum atque defunctorum Etiam quadragesimus secuÌ„dum veterem formam Moysen enim hoc modo luxit populus nec non anniuersarium pro memoria ipsius detúrque de illius facultatibus pauperibus in commemorationem ipsius Thus in english VVe will that the third day be obserued for the departed in psalmes lessons and prayers for his sake that rose the third day And so the ix day for the vniting together in one memorie the departed with the liuing In like maner the fourtith day must be kept according to the ordre vsed of olde for so did the people obserue the bewayling of Moyses And with all these the xij monthes minde beside VVhere for the memory of his departure lâ—t somwhat be distributed amongest the poore people How say you now my maisters is this Popish or Apostolike doctrine was it inuented for priestes couetousnesse or obserued as Christes ordinaunce made we much of late of the litle we founde before or of late lost for lacke of deuotion that which we had so long before Mercifull God who woulde thinke this geare were so auncient so litle set by VVho would thinke the aduersaries were so impudent and yet so much regarded VVhat hearte thinke you they reade the auncient writers with all Or with what conscience can they passe by so plaine practise of all the Christian worlde Or with what face can they name either scripture or doctor How dare they looke backe at any one steppe of antiquitie all which be nothing els but a testimony of their wickednesse and as you woulde say a pointing with finger at their horrible spoile of olde doctrine and deuotion VVhat if one of their owne scholars seeing this light in our matter shoulde aske of his maister a lasse sir what if this be true that is proued so olde and you chaunce to lie that are so late where are we your scholars then It is not aunswered if you confort him with faire wordes and tell him you follow the scripture For he will charge you againe straight that these men had scripture vnderstood scripture alleaged scripture both of the newe Testament and the olde and referred their vsage some to Moyses Aaron other some to the fathers in the lawe of nature and all to the Apostles of christ VVhere are you then no more but this perdy we vnderstand scripture perchaunce better then they we haue the holy Ghost perchaunce and so had not the fathers perchaunce that is no scripture perchaunce this and this is not that doctors worke because it makes against vs I thinke he that woulde beleue your chauncing that may haue such assuraunce of the trueth on the other side he is worthy to be deceiued 4 Not content with Tertullians testimony you will clime higher euen to Clemens the Apostles owne scholer but you shal be brought downe with shame enough I will not here repeate the mise dounge with the rotten breade in the boxe and such baggage as I haue discouered before of this carterly Clement but because you are so
diuines some affirming that he was deliuered out of Hell in deede some that he remaineth still in Hell but not in the tormâ—nts of Hell in which opinion is Mathew monke of Westminster in his Flores historiarum Anno gratiae 605. How shall we beleue the booke of Conformities of S. Frances who is there reported to haue deliuered not one but many soules out of Hell. If these be fables and lies M. Allen they be forged in your owne shop wheras purgatory all such other rotten postes and pillers of your Church were receiued If these be true that be set forth with so great authoritie then were not you well aduised to publishe such principles as be proued false by your owne patrons proctors 3 Therefore let no man withdrawe his almes charity or prayers from any of the houshoulde of faith vpon any light presumption yea or strong coniecture of any mans finall continuance in sinne or wickednesse vpon whome in the last spirite of breath as God maye haue mercy so mans prayers then shall be both needefull and exceding beneficiall vnto him Onely with conscience thou may and must cease with Gods Church to practise the wayes of mercy vppon such as be not baptised or otherwise after their baptisme haue by leauing this holy communion of the faithfull iudged them selues vnworthy and made their case vnapte by continuance therein to receiue any benefite either of the Church which of their owne accorde they haue forsaken or of any membre thereof wherevnto by faith and loue they are not ioyned And so all heretikes shall be voide of this mercy and grace after their death which did in their life so earnestly abhorre the same Vpon all other where any hope may be had if thou pray or procure the meanes of mercy it shall at least be to thy selfe a singular helpe and gayne though the partie for whome thou doest it either neede it not being already receiued into blesse or els in perpetuall damnation of Hell be helples for euer Si preces pro mortuis facimus sayth S. Chrysostome si elecmosinas damus etsi ille indignus sit nobis Deus placatior erit If we pray for the deade and bestowe almes for their sakes if he be founde vnworthy yet God will the rather be mercyfull to our selues And sure it is that who so euer be founde so gracious as with much compassion of the deceaseds misery to procure with study and care Gods mercyfull pardon towardes them that such a one especially shall finde grace and fauour at the time of neede and be meruailous apt to receiue benefit by others procurement againe For as it is certaine that no man can receiue benefite after his departure by any worke or will of the liuing sauing such as in their life deserued the same so must it needes be that where these remedies be needefull and profitable that yet more or lesse they shall worke vpon the party for his reliefe according to the more or lesse deuotion and deseruing in this life Therefore this trueth of mutuall participation of the deade with the liue geueth no man occasion of idle rest or carelesse affection in his owne time and cause when he may be assured to lacke the reliefe of others to whome in his liefe by well working he woulde not ioyne before But I had rather ye hearde S. Augustine vttering expressely this meaning of mine in his owne wordes It can not be denied sayth he but that the soules of the deceased be relieued when the sacrifice of our redemer is offered for them or almes bestowed in their behalfe in the Church But in deede these are profitable to none but to such as in their life deserued that those things after their departure might doe them good For there is a state of life that is neither so perfect but it may well haue neede of these helpes after death not yet so very euill but such thinges may well succour them after their departure Mary there is a kinde of conuersation so vertuous that it requireth no such ayed and an other kinde so wicked that those which passed their former life therein can haue after their passage no reliefe by such meanes for by our merites in this life we do obteine that after our deaths we may either atteine to remedy or els be voide of all helpes For it is a very vaine hope that any man should presume to winne that at Gods hand after he be passed out of this worlde which when he was in the worlde he neuer sought nor deserued And a litle after thus he maketh all plaine VVhen the sacrifice of the altar or els any kinde of almes be offered for all men departed being baptised for the very good they are thankes giuing for the indifferent that be not very euill they are a mercyfull deliueraunce For the wicked and very euill all though they be no succour for them which be departed and deade yet they are confortable for those that be aliue And to such as receiue benefite thereby either commeth full forgiuenesse or els their iudgement and damnation is made thereby somewhat more tolerable The which sentence almost in like wordes for that it merueillously opened this matter this author repeteth in the fourth question ad DulcitiuÌ„ and els very often VVhereby the faithfull man may learne both how much and whome these remedies do relieue And then that the Church in his dayes offered sacrifice for all those that were baptised and in the faith thereof departed both for that it was vncertaine who had neede thereof and also because euen then when the parties were not nor coulde not be partakers thereof that Gods glory notwithstanding was excedingly set forth and man comforted thereby Therefore Gods Church in a true sense may be saide to offer sacrifice euen for the holy and blessed martyrs who no doubt by sheeding of their bloude for Christes name and defense of vnitie be fully purged in this their death and so perfectly released of all sinne paine that might otherwise haue deserued punishment and some expectation of Gods mercy in the life to come For so S. Cyprian and other of his Church offered sacrifice for Celerne Laurence and Ignatius as he testifieth him selfe Sacrificia pro eis semper vt meministis offerimus quoties martyrum passiones dies anniuersaria coÌ„memoratione celebramus For them we offer sacrifice as often as we celebrate the yearly memories of martyrs For which kinde of perfect men sacrifice is thankes geuing vnto God for their glory and giftes of grace and a kinde of intercession to them in our necessities For which cause S. Augustine affirmeth Quòd pro martyribus non oramus fed ipsi oranâ— pro nobis VVe pray not for martyrs but they pray for vs Nowe the sacrifice often celebrated for the wicked also that be not knowen to the Church so to be is not beneficiall to them neither because their naughty life and death makes them
conditio sepulturae pompa exequiarum magis sunt viuorum solatia quà m subsidia mortuorum Non tamen ideo contemnēda abijcienda sunt corpora defunctorum maxime que iustorum fidelium quibus tanquam organis vasis ad omnia bona opera sanctus vsus est spiritus Curious prouision for the buriall and the pompe of the solemne obittes be rather done for the solace of the lieue then for helpe of the deade neuerthelesse the bodies of the departed namely of faithfull folkes may not be contemned or cast forth the which the holy Ghost vsed as vessells and instruments of well working By all which thinges it may well be noted that some thinges haue bene vsually practised in funeralls for thankes geuing to almighty God as Hymnes and Psalmes other some for decent comelinesse and solace of the liuinge as the place of the buriall the lights the ringing and such like although euen these things proceeding of loue and deuotion be after a sorte meritorious to the doers and a helpe to them for whome they be procured and good motions and memories of mans duety For which causies those and the like haue bene vniformelie vsed through out the whole Catholike Church from the beginning But the principall thinges perteining to the iustes of the departed be prayers and sacrifice and other such like whereby they are assuredly much proffited by release of their paines So saith S. Augustine in these wordes Non existimemus ad mortuos pro quibus curam gerimus peruenire nisi quod pro eis siue altaris siue eleemosinarum sacrificijs solemniter celebramus Let vs neuer thinke that any other thinge properly apperteineth to the reliefe of the departed sauing the solemne sacrifice of the altar almes and prayer And therefore as the saide holy doctour confesseth the worthinesse of the place where man is buried of it selfe profiteth not at all but in respect of the holy prayers which be there rather made then els where and the patronage of holy martyrs and sainctes to whome he nothing doubteth but intercession may profitably be made for the deceased for which cause as it may appeare by Paulinus men were very desirous euer in the primitiue Church to be buried by some blessed martyrs body And so must we thinke also of buriall by the reuerent holy sacrament that it wonderfully helpeth man not for the placeis sake although the deuotion of the desirer is therin commēdable but because the liuing may there effectually commende the departed to God in the time of the holy sacrifice may be put in remembraunce to call vpon Christes blessed person there present for the soule of that man which with care and study laide his body in the hope of resurrection by the soueraigne holy body that is already risen againe And this was the cause that our forefathers from Christes time till our dayes haue had respecte and desire as occasion serued to be buried there where by ordre prayers and sacrifice were daily had and where the patronage of holy sainctes might best be procured It is a high point of wisdome surely good reader onely to see what godly wisdome our fathers vsed in shew of their zele faith and Christianity As it is an vntollerable arrogancy and a singular signe of infidelity to laugh at and blaspheme those thinges whereof not the prowdest heretike that liueth hath any intelligence at all Obcoecauit enim eos malitia eorum For their owne malice hath blinded them 3 But let vs now followe you into Africa First you allege Augustine in his booke de cura pro mortuis agenda wherin he is so full of doubtes that he knoweth not him selfe what to determine but that he will hold the common opinion receiued in his time But this pasteth M. Allen that you will content your selfe with Augustines authoritie that the pompe of buriall c. profiteth not the deade but that you will haue lightes ringing c. proceding of loue and deuotion to help them for whom they are procured If you may goe beyond Augustine why may not we come short of him But in the 18. chapter he nameth the sacrifice of the aultar to be profitable to the deade This soundeth somewhat like the matter but if it be well marked it maketh nothing for the propitiatory sacrifice of the Masse for euen in the same place he calleth it the sacrifice of almes which is but a sacrifice of thankes giuing And that by this sacrifice he meaneth not the body of Christ nor a propitiatory sacrifice is manifest in his booke de fide ad Petrum diaconum cap. 19. where he sayth that Christ offered him selfe for vs that sacrifice whereby God was reconciled and that the Church offered to Christ the sacrifice of breade and wine in faith and charitie which is a thankes geuing and memoriall of his death The body of Christ is not offered to him selfe but thankes giuing is offered to him for the offering of his body for vs His wordes are Firmissimè tene nullatenus dubites ipsum vnigenitum c. Hold most stedfastly and nothing doubt then that the only begotten sonne of God being made flesh offered him selfe for vs a sacrifice oblation for a sweete fauour vnto God to whom with the father and the holy Ghost by the Patriarches Prophets and Priestes in time of the olde Testament beastes were sacrificed and to whom now that is in the time of the new Testament togither with the father and the holy Ghost with whom his diuinitie is all one the holy Catholike Church throughout all the worlde ceaseth not to offer the sacrifice of breade and wine in faith and charitie For in these carnall sacrifices there was a figuring of the flesh of Christ which he him selfe being without sinne should offer for our sinnes But in this sacrifice there is thankes giuing commemoration of the flesh of Christ which he offered for vs and of his bloode which the same God shed for vs Nowe for the other poynt of inuocation of Sainctes M. Allen affirmeth that S. Augustine neuer doubteth but intercession may be made vnto them for the deade who so euer will take paynes to reade the treatise de cura pro mortuis agenda shall find nothing else but doubtes and questions of that matter as cap. 5. Cum ergo mater fidelis filij defuncti corpus desyderauit in Basilicam martyris poni si quidem credidit eius animam meritis martyris adiuuari hoc quod ita credidit supplicatio quaedam fuit haec profuit si quid profuit Therfore when the faithfull mother desired the body of her faithful sonne departed to be layd in the Church of the Martyr if she beleued that his soule might be helped by the metites of the martyr this that she so beleued was a certeyne supplication and this profited if any thing profited Here Augustine doubteth whether supplications to the Martyr profite any thing or no. Moreuer he can not
testifieth that the Gospell was preached in this lande in the reigne of Tyberius the Emperour proue vnto vs that Paule or Simon or Thaddeus or Ioseph or who so euer first preached the Gospell in this Ilande tought prayers or sacrifices for the deade Proue it I saye and the daye is yours for euer if you proue it not as neither you nor the deuill for you is able to doe it the worlde may see your swelling bragges to be nothing but blowen bladders or bubles in which there is nothing but ayre as your wordes are nothing but winde yet are you not ashamed to name Gildas who as about the first conuersiō of the Britaynes to the faith he hath no worde of any such matters so where he complayneth of there ruyne and decaye he accuseth the priests of his time for sieldome sacrificing but of sacrificing for the deade he speaketh not although the error of praying for the deade were receiued in other places and whether this countrye were free from it I am not able to saye nor you to proue that it was infected with it And therefore hauing nothing to shew for six hundreth yeare◠almost in which this lande was neuer voyde of Christians you come in at last with the peruersion of the Saxons by Augustine that prowde cruell and vnlearned monke of whose pryde and cruelty our stories doe testifie at large his ignorance and vnskilfulnesse is bewrayed by him selfe in his writinges to Pope Gregory I force litle what miracles he wrought to cōfirme his errors neither doe I waye worth a flye that longe tale you tell out of Beda of him that had his cheines fallen o◠in Masse time That credulous and superstitious age had many such fayned miracles 500 such tales are toulde in vitas patrum serm discipuli legenda aurea the festiuall c. But make you no more accompt of Beda his graue authority then of those fayned fables suerly I make this accompt of Beda that if he had reported the matter of his owne knowledge I woulde haue credited the facte done and yet tending to the maintenaunce of false doctrine I would neuer the sooner haue bene moued from the trueth of Gods worde But when he reported it onely of heare saye and that not of the parties them selues that might haue bene witnesses but of them that hearde this one man tell it by him selfe it caryeth small credit with it I beleue that such a tale was tolde to Beda but what if they added some what to it that tolde him and what if he that tolde them lyed if Beda had not bene ouer light of credit him selfe he shoulde not haue put it in writing before he had perfect intelligence not only of the party him selfe but also of that Londiner and gentleman and those that kept him in prison But how so euer the matter weare true or false it is no proofe nor preiudice against the trueth of God vttered in the holy scriptures Let Augustine speake for vs in his booke ae vnitate ecclesiae against the Donatistes which boasted of miracles as the Papistes doe but Augustine will not allow them for sufficient proues with out the authoritie of the scriptures non dicat verum est quia ego hoc dico aut quia hoc dixit ille collega meus aut illi collegae mei aut illi episcopi vel clerici vel laici nostri aut ideo verum est quia illa illa ▪ mirabilia fecit Donatus vel Potius vel quilibet alius aut quia homines ad memorias mortuorum nostrorum orant exaudiuntur aut quia illa illa ibi contingunt aut quia ille frater noster aut illa soror nostra tale visum vigilans vidit vel tale visum dormiens somniauit c. Sed vtrum ipsi ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum scripturarum canonicis libris oftendant c Let him not saye it is therefore true because I say it or such a one my companion sayed it or those my companions or those our byshoppes or clerkes or laye men or it is therefore true because Donatus or Pontius or any other did these or those miracles or because men praye at our dead mens memories and are harde or because these or these thinges doe happen there or because this our brother or that our sister sawe such a vision waking or dreamed such a vision sleeping c. but whether they holde the Church or no let them shewe none otherwise but by the canonicall bookes of the holy Scriptures This place M. Allen if it might take place with you might serue to cut of all controuersies not onely of purgatory but of the Church it selfe and what so euer is in question betwene vs But you are wise enough you will neuer venture your cause vppon that triall 2 VVe must here stay a litle and ponder in our mindes how our forefathers and people of our owne lande were taught in this article when they were first deliuered out of Sathans bondage and conuerted to the fellowship of Christes Church and let vs nothing doubt but that which our owne Apostles both by worde and worke by miracle and by martyrdome first proued vnto vs is the very true and unfallible faith of our Christianitie For if that were not true which at our first conuersion was preached vnto vs then we receiued not the faith but falsehoode at their handes then the histories doe make a lowde lye in testifying we were turned to the Christian faith both at that time and by such men then it were no conuersion from heathen Idolatrie to the worship of Christ but it were a chaunge from one superstition to an other and this latter so much worse then the other because vnder the name of Christ there were practise perpetuall of execrable sacrilege in instituting of a sacrifice to the defasing of our redemption in adoring bare breade as the hoste of our saluation in offering it vp to God for the sinnes both of the quicke and deade in practise of vnprofitable prayers for the soules deceased with the like false worship of God in all pointes Then their preaching was highly to Gods dishonour pernicious to the people and damnable to them selues Then haue all that euer ranne the rase of that faith and doctrine till this daye which they taught perished with them then are they founde false witnesses whome we haue accompted as our vndoubted true and lawfull pastors then God hath purposely deceiued vs with fayned miracles full many with numbers of vaine visions then all our labour is lost till this day The holynesse of so many good princies and priestes is praised in vaine the bloude of Martyrs shed in vaine the exercise of all sacraments in vaine and because all deuotion consisted in our fathers dayes in the earnest zele of so false a religion as they thinke this to be then the more deuotion the farther from Christ the lesse religion more neere to saluation then happy was he
of Christes institution the Apostles tradition the vniuersall practise of the primitiue Church And what so euer great wordes beside you haue streyned your lunges to pronounce you haue sayd nothing for oblation or prayer for the deade to be the institution of Christ and all this geere but I may say the same for the drinking of milke and hony after baptisme for not fasting on Sonday ▪ or prayer on knees c by like vniuersalitie antiquitie consent authoritie 8 If the authors be past hope yet their followers shall take goodly occasion to forsake such wicked maisters and be ashamed of all their vndecent dealyng if they note and consider with me that the first preachers of this peruerse opinion were such that none of all their scholars durst euer for shame for the proofe of their assertion name their owne doctors And truely a man might well maruel why heretikes hauing some that did plainely professe their opinions had yet rather picke out some darke sentence of any one of our holy fathers whome they knowe to be directly against them then out of those same doctors of their owne which in expresse wordes make for them You shall not lightly heare an heretike that denieth praying to sainctes or holdeth with open breache of holy vowes alleage Iouinianus or Vigilantius Nor a Sacramentarie seeke for the authoritye of Berengarius or Wicleffe though they be of some antiquitie and without colour plainely doe mainteine the doctrine that so well lyketh them But they will trauell to writh with plaine iniurie to the author some sentence out of Augustine or Ambrose or some other that by their whole life and practise open them selues to the worlde to beleue the contrary and all this by some shewe of wordes for the bearing of their false assertions Marke it well I saye in heretikes that they can not for shame of them selues euer name any of the plaine auouchers of their owne opinions The cause is that the only vpholding of their opinions made them infamous to the whole posterity And if any honour grewe vnto them amongest the simple because they lacked not the wayes to procure the peoples consent with admiration of their eloquence or other plausible and populare qualities in their dayes yet trueth following time their same raised vpon so light causes easely decayd and the grounde of perpetuall infamie sattled in wise mens heartes by the wickednesse of their attemptes remained for a testimony to all posteritie of their shame and ignominie And this I speake not onely of the authors of our common sectes for they neuer atteined to any shade of famous report in their dayes because they coulde deceiue none but simple wemen but I meane by Arius him selfe and Pelagius with the like who in their owne time being of great esteeme amongest many whome they deceiued yet after their death more more they grew to shame and infamie so farre that who so euer were of their opinions afterward durste not yet for shame vse their name or authority for proofe of their owne doctrine See you not in our dayes howe freshe the name of Luther Caluin Bucer with that rable was amongest the rude people whome they had wonne either with speach or pleasure of licentious doctrine and loe nowe it decayeth in a maner or their bones be coulde The peoples sensies raueshed with the present pleasure of such as they hearde last like them so longe as they heare them afterwarde their memory remaineth onely to malediction Vidi impium superexaltatum eleuatum sicut Cedros Libani transiui ecce non est quaesiui non est inuentus locus eius I haue seene the wicked exalted and set vp as the Cedre trees of Libanus I passed by and loe out of hande he is no body I sought him and his abiding can not be founde VVho so euer shall seeke for our glorious preachers with in this C. yeare he shall finde them in such estimation then as their forefathers be nowe that is to say to be vnworthy the naming of their owne adherents if any of that secte liue and last so longe For let them neuer looke to come to the infamous fame of Arrius the best of all these secte maisters not worthy to be scholar to a hundreth of his followers Thus loe is the case of heretikes liked of fooles when they be alieue contemned of all men when they are deade 8 M. Allen marueileth and giueth a speciall note that we name not Iouinian Vigilantius Berengarius or VVickleffe to be the authors of our doctrine but rather hang vppon some sentence of Augustine or Ambrose and thinketh we are ashamed of the other In deede if we depended vpon any mens authoritie or that any man or men were the authors of our faith as it fareth with the popish faith we should be iniurious vnto them if we did not acknowledge our foūders as they doe some of theirs But seeing God him selfe is the father of that doctrine which we haue receiued by his holy word we neither boast vpon Augustine nor Ambrose when they dissent therefro neither are ashamed of Vigilantius nor Beringarius when they agree therewith We refuse not the truth that Tertullian Origin haue taught because they taught heresies also neither do we receiue the errors of Cypriā Augustin because they taught many points of true faith Onely the canonicall Scriptures are the rule by which we iudge of all men and their writings of all doctrine and the teachers therof It is a ridiculous thing that M. Allen like a cold Prophet taketh vpon him to tell what shall be thought of our preachers names within these hundred yeares But what so euer he prateth the memory of the righteous shall remayne for euer neither shall they be afrayde of any euill reporte their names are written in the booke of life which are ordeyned vnto eternall glory howso euer they be accounted of by the wicked of this worlde And yet there is no cause why we should not thinke that the names and writings of Luther Caluine and Bucer shal remayne in good account with Gods Church euen vntil they them selues shall come with Christ to iudge the worlde when in the meane time Eccius Pighius Cocleus and such other shall not be remembred but as obstinate withstanders of the truth and enemies of the Gospell 9 Now in the doctors of Gods Church it is cleane contrarie and no lesse worthy to be noted for our purpose for their honour and estimation rising vpon the sure vnfallible grounde of Gods trueth by yeares and time gathereth such force that not onely their memorie is in perpetuall benediction before God but their workes follow them in the mindes of their posteritie to their owne eternall praise and benefite of all their followers And which is much more to be woundered at they haue so passed enuy and malice of man that euen those which deadly hate them dare not but praise them And such as mislike their doctrine
and knowe of their owne conscience that they be directly against them yet dare not openly charge them with falshood as they doe vs their scholars but rather as I sayd seeke some sentence out of them to helpe their owne cause then with their plaine condemnation of falshood to refuse their authoritie S. Augustine busyed much with the Pelagians and charged by them in disputation that he defended the Manicheis doctrine concerning originall sinne for his defense and warraunt proueth vnto them that S. Ambrose taught the same doctrine that he did and yet they durst not be so bolde to call him a Manichie Dic huic Ambrosio si audes quae mihi tam petulanter obiectas Thou heretike sayeth he say the same by S. Ambrose if thou dare for shame which thou so sausely and wantonly obiectes to me Looke I pray you Ambrose was but newe deade when his onely name did feare the heretike wheÌ„ other aliue of as good learning was contemned of him and by wordes of reproche charged with the Manicheis secte who was a wicked man of horrible sectes not long before those dayes Pelagius out of doubte thought no better of Ambrose and Cyprian deade then he did of Augustine and Innocentius a liue because their doctrine was all one but yet the men departed were of more authority in Gods Church then the liuing of whose continuance to the ende men were vncertaine before the proofe thereof and their wordes being deade might easely be wrasted to some shew of their purpose when the authority of the liuing coulde not admit any such false dealinge them selues bearing witnesse of the meaning of their own words VVell then our doctors of Gods Church being all of holy estimation and blessed memory doe so dase the eyes euen of their owne aduersaries that being of the very same doctrine that we who by Gods grace be membres of the Catholike Church be of yet they are past the malice of those which like not their doing and doctrine For the heretikes well knowing them to be the authors or at the least especiall mainteiners of this our assertion of the valew of prayers and the holy sacrifice for the departed yet they dare not but clokedly reprehende them when they flowe against the poore Catholikes nowe aliue with wordes of infinite blasphemie and sclaunderous reproche Therefore I nowe will call vppon them with S. Augustines wordes Come on all the packe of you who so euer is the prowdest Protestant vpon the earth call if he dare S. Denyse S. Clement Athanas. Chrysostom Ambrose Gregory Bede we are not ashamed of their names as you be of your Maisters Call these Papistes for praying for their freindes call them Idolaters call them superstitious call them enimies of Christes passion say they be iniurious to his death by prouiding a newe sacrifice for sinne tell them they inuented Anniuersaries monthes mindes and yearly offeringes for their owne gayne call them masse mungers call them blinde gydes No you dare not for your eares you dare not disprayse our heauenly gydes you dare not once name your owne 9 M. Allen staâ—â—our wisedome there is no man will graunt you that the doctors of Gods Church Augustine Ambrose Chrysostom Basill c. are al togither yours because they haue allowed some one or two thinges that you doe and haue condemned the whole substance and principall groundes of your religion Nay rather count vpon the Popes to be the pillers of your Church doctors of your learning and fathers of your faith that haue bene within these seuen or eight hundreth yeares and see whether we might not with more honesty bragge of Iouinian and Vigilantius then you in your conscience can glory in a whole huÌ„dreth of them almost And whereas you bable of Augustine and the Pelagians if you were posed to answere vppon your conscience doe you defend Gods eternall predestination with Augustine rather then free will with Pelagius the only grace of God to be the whole cause of mans saluation as Augustine doth or the merites of workes as the Pelagians doe And whereas you allege that saying of Augustine dic huic Ambrosio c. to proue that Ambrose may not be gaine sayde what so euer he writ you shall heare what Augustine him selfe sayth of the same Ambrose when he was pressed with his authority by the Pelagians as though he defended freewill in his booke de gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. Beatus inquit Ambrosius Episcopus in cuius praecipuè libris Romana elucet fides qui scriptorum inter Latinos flos quidem enituit cuius fidem purissimum in Scripturis sensum ne inimicus quidem ausus est reprehendere Ecce qualibus quantis praedicat laudibus quamlibet sanctum doctum nequaquam tamen authoritati Scripturae canonicae comparandum Blessed Ambrose sayth the Pelagian that Bishop in whose bookes specially the Romane faith doth shine which glistered as a certeyne flower among the Latine writers whose fayth and most pure sense in the Scriptures no not his enemy durst reprehend c. Behold sayth Augustine with what howe great prayses he extolleth him which though he be neuer so holy and well learned yet is he not to be compared with the authoritie of the canonicall Scriptures Loe here the authoritie of Ambrose or any man And by the way note here the hereticall bragge of the Romane faith Finally where you stand forth like a peeuish quarrell picker to dare vs with S. Augustines wordes we may well say vnto you as to such a busy body good fellow thou makest more a doe then thou needest here is no man disposed to striue with Clemens Dionysius Athanasius Chrysostome nor Augustine if they haue spoken any thing that helpeth the matter bring it forth where due triall may be had in the meane time bragge of them as much as thou wilt thou shalt neuer be able to proue that of 20. errors which thou defendest they did hold one If they haue spoken otherwise then truth in any matter they must be told of it as well as other men But thou must not thinke that for one error common with them thou must hold an 100. coÌ„trary to them Thou doest them wrong to make them thy partakers as thou shalt well know when the triall commeth therefore quiet thy selfe and talke of thyne owne mates as for those men thou hast litle to doe with them nor they with thee but for sclaundering of them to be altogither on thy side 10 Such force hath the trueth and such feare there is in falshood and yet these doctors must needes be in a thousand times worse case then we be if the doctrine of purgatory and prayers be not true VVe may be saued or at least reasonably excused by following they in leading vs in falshood can haue no excuse of their impietie But howe glad may all we Catholikes be in our heartes that haue the full consent of all them in the proofe of our beleue out of
conteyned the argument is most inuincible that concludeth negatiuely thus All true doctrine is taught in the Scripture purgatory is not taught in the Scripture therefore purgatory is no true doctrine And this conclusion M. Allen him selfe made of mans authoritie cap. 13. purgatory and prayers for the dead were not preached against at their first entry ergo they are true But of all mens authoritie it is false wheras he sayth we are ouerthrowers destroyers we confesse we are so of all false doctrine and heresie For the word of God is appoynted not only to teach truth but also to ouerthrow error not onely to build faith but to destroy falshood But it is a proper cōceit wherin he pleaseth him self as other of his sect do to tel vs that all our faith standeth vpon negatiues I could frame the Papists as holsome a creede all vpō affirmatiues if they wil receiue it This is more then boyish babling All trueth is to be affirmed all falshood to be denyed Therefore it is not to be loked what is affirmatiue and what negatiue but what is true or false that is affirmed or denyed But to runne through the articles of that creede which he hath framed for vs we truely beleue that man after his fall hath not free will no not aptnes of will to thinke any thing that is good 2. Cor. 3. we beleue truely that a man is not iustified by workes but by faith onely Rom. 3. And yet we beleue that good workes are necessary to be in euery man that is iustified Iac. 2. we beleue that the Church is not alwayes knowne to the wicked vpon earth neither the vniuersall Church seene at all of men because it is in heauen Gal. 4. we beleue that the catholicke Church hath no chiefe gouerner vppon earth but Christ vnto whom all power is giuen in heauen earth Matth. 28. we beleue there are but 2. Sacraments of the new testament baptisme and the Lordes supper instituted by Christ 1. Cor. 10. we beleue that they geue not grace of the worke wrought but after the faith of the receiuer and according to the election of God. 1. Cor. 10. Baptisme is necessary for all Christians to receiue that are not by necessitie excluded from it 1. Pet. 3. Christ is present at his Supper but not after a grosse and caparnaiticall maner but as he was present in Manna to the fathers 1. Cor. 10. There is no sacrifice propitiatory for our sinnes but onely the sacrifice of Christes death once offered for all Heb. 10. There is no priesthood to offer sacrifice propitiatory but only the priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchizedech Heb. 7. The spirituall priesthood is common to all Christian men and women 1. Pet. 1. we haue an altar of which it is not lawfull for them to eate which serue the tabernacle and other beside we haue none Heb. 13. we call not vpon Sainctes because we beleue not in them for how shoulde we call vpon them in whome we beleue not Rom. 10. There is no prayer for the deade nor purgatory after this life because they that liue vnto Christ dye vnto him and being dissolued are with him Ioan. 17. Christ descended into hell to redeeme vs out of hell by suffering the wrath of God for our sinnes Heb. 5. There is no Lymbus for the fathers were at rest with God where they are now whether we call the place Abrahams bosome or paradise or heauen Luke 16. and 23. 2. Cor. 12. The rest which you adde maye be the beginning of the Popish creede which you maye as you list continue negatiuely or affirmatiuely after this maner God a lone knoweth not the heartes of all men God onely is not to be worshipped and serued for Sainctes haue both the one and the other God onely is not true for the Pope can not erre Christ is not our onely mediator and aduocate for Marie and the Sainctes are also Christes death is not a sufficient redemption for vs for we must satisfie for our selues Christes death hath not taken away both our sinnes and the punishment of them but the Popes padon maye Christ is not onely our high priest according to the order of Melchizedech for euery hedge priest is of the same order Christ hath not made them that are sanctified perfect by a sacrifice once offered for all For y greatest part is lefte to the masse Our sinnes are not freely forgeuen vs by Christ for we must satisfie for them A man is not iustified by fayth without the workes of the lawe for euery man must merite for him selfe The scriptures are not sufficient to teach vs all trueth but we must haue vnwritten verities The worde of God is not of soueraine authoritie for the decrees of the Pope and generall councells be equall with it This is the Papistes creede both in the affirmatiue and in the negatiue But in that you exhort the Papistes to reade Caluins institution and there to see whether he teacheth any truth therein I woulde to God that all Papistes in Englande woulde followe your counsell pray vnfaynedly that God would open there eyes that they may see his trueth if it be taught in that booke 2 This negatiue faith hath no grounde nor confidence of thinges to be hoped for nor any certaintie of such thinges as doe not yet appeare but it is an euident ouerthrowe of all our hope and a very canker of the expectation of thinges to come This faith therefore of these pluckers downe must needes vse a conuenient instrument to destroye and not to builde to plucke vp and not to plante to improue and not to make proofe But what way is that mary by way of negatiue proofe they confirme their negatiue and no faith Purgatory say they nor prayers for the deade be not so much as once named in all the scripture ergo there is neither of them to be beleued VVhich forme of argument serued the Arians against the consubstātiall vnitie of God the father his sonne our Sauiour It helped the Anabaptistes against the baptisme of infantes it was profitable to Heluidius against the perpetuall virginitie of Gods mother and it helpeth all pluckers downe but it neuer serueth a buylder The vanity whereof is so well knowen that I will not stande to talke thereof namely seeing it hath no place in our cause for which we haue brought diuers scriptures all construed by most learned fathers for that sense and some so euident that they droue our aduersaries to the open deniall of the holy canonicall scripture 2 What grounde or confidence of thinges not seene and yet hoped for our fayth hath it is not for infidells to iudge no more then for blinde men to iudge of collours And as for our negatiue argument it is stronger then your affirmatiue error can abide there of groweth the spight But when as you saye we frame our argument of the name of purgatory onely or prayers for
may by the example of Christ aunswere one question with an other why was it first reueiled to the Arians in councell holden against Christ that the article of his descent into hell was meete to be added to the creede and confession of faith which was not reueiled to so many godly meÌ„ as set forth the Symbole nor to the holy Nicene Councell Aunswere me if you can or any Robin good fellowe of your sect â–ª learned or vnlearned is it any preiudice to the trueth of that article or to the right that it hath to be placed in the creede that it was first added by the Arrians why was the trueth reueiled to heretikes concerning rebaptisation rather then to Cyprian and so many catholicke byshoppes why was it reueiled to the Pelagians that infantes might be saued without the participation of the sacrament of Christes body and bloude rather then vnto S. Augustine Innocentius byshoppe of Rome and as Augustine sayeth all the catholicke fathers of that time which thought it was as necessary for them to receiue the communion as to be baptised If heretikes shoulde not affirme somethinge that were true they shoulde neuer deceiue any man And sometime Satan affirmeth the trueth not because he will haue it beleeued but rather that proceding out of his lying mouth it might the sooner be discredited And therefore sometymes Arrians Pelagians Anabaptistes and such like by the subtilty of Satan haue affirmed somethinge that is true either to winne credit to their manifolde lyes or else to drowen the credit of that trueth among so many errors 7 Nay I will pose you further is not your preaching the very ready waye to all such extreeme blasphemies as they boldely mainteine did euer man fall from the Catholicke Church to those further heresies then you yet openly professe but he tooke yours by the waye as a plaine passage to extreme infidelitie yea your opinions doe so well stande with the other that they neede not afterwarde to refuse any one pointe of all your doctrine to mainteine their owne There is no article of Catholicke doctrine but it is as much hated of them as of your selues Helpe your selues here my maisters or else all the worlde will take you to be in your heartes of the same sectes wherevnto your faith is alwayes so dearely ioyned Put your heades together and tell vs whie your doctrine is so deare to the AriaÌ„s all wicked men so hated of the holy fathers of Christes Church If you frame not your aunswere well you liese your credites your scholars and your honesties VVell thus haue I pointed out your author his name was Aërius you must be called Aërians you maye kepe the name of Protestaunts or Euangelistes beside For a holy newe calling is lightly ioyned to such men VVhereby though some simple be deceyued yet wâ—se men be warned Or if the olde authors of this secte be not so glorious as these new reuiuers if they list and like so they may call them selues Lutherans or Caluinistes or what they will but Catholickes Although Martyn Luther graunted purgatory and prayers with this error that such as were there might yet by their diuers deseruinges winne or loose life euerlasting as men of doubtefull state as they were before in the worlde plaine against our Sauiours admonition and carefull warning veniet nox quando iam nullus operari potest VVorke whiele the day lasteth for the night shall come wheÌ„ no man can labour But I neede not to stande vpon this point which of neither parte is much regarded Neither will I spende any more time in getting them an author of their secte seeing they haue choise of diuers Let them goe out of the Citye of God from amongest the holy company and turne on the lifte hande and looke amongest the outcastes of all agies and they shall haue freindes and fellowes enowe 7 That you saye of our preaching to be the waye to so many heresies might haue bene sayed of the Gentiles and Iewes to the whole Church of Christians The Gentiles continued constant so did the Iewes without schisme in their errors when the professors of Christianity were rent and torne into an hundreth sectes and heresies There were no heretikes but they hated Iewes and Gentiles as much as the true Christians was therefore the religion of the Iewes and Gentiles better then the religion of the Christians Yea there neuer was since Christ any heresie or heretike but they agreed in many more thinges with the Christians then with the Gentiles and Iewes was therefore the Christian religion false or the Paganes and Iewes superstition true It is therefore no dâ—sâ—redit of our doctrine that Arrians or Anabaptistes of our time either haue any thing of yours or prayse any thing of ours Neither our credit schollers nor honestie are in daunger for their errors which they learned not of vs neither are your wit learning or heresie the greater for vttering this foolish conceipte which no more toucheth vs or defendeth you then it carpeth the religion of Christ and mainteineth the Idolatrie of the heathen The worlde seeth what vaine reasons you leane vnto being destitute of the worde of god An heretike helde this opinion therefore it is false The deuill beleueth there is one God therefore shall not Christian men beleue so why woulde God reueile any trueth to heretikes why did the Pharizees which otherwise were heretikes defende the resurrection of the deade This vaine frothe of wordes and smoke of foolish and vnlearned questions will euen fall downe and vanish awaye of it selfe though it be not blowen away by vs The latter end of this chapter hath one croppe of his olde custome to charge Luther with defending of Purgatory which either was while he remained in ignorance or else it is but a fained fable as many other of him and others are deuised by the Papists who as they erre from the trueth of God so they delight in sclaundering of good men but they shall not preuaile their madnes is made knowen to all men That their falsehood is condemned and the Catholicke trueth approued by the authority of holy Councells Their pride in contemning and the Catholickes humilitie in obedient receyuing the same And a sleight vvhereby the heretikes deceiue the people is detected CAP. XV. 1 ANd for our parte it is sufficient good reader that we knowe the first founder thereof and that we be nowe right well assured that he in his time and his scholars in theirs haue bene noted called and condemned for heretikes in this as in other fonde peruerse opinions beside not onely by the singular iudgements of diuers learned men but by the common sense and consent of the worlde and by auncient Councells both generall and particular as we maye reade in the Councells of Carthage the iiij of Bracharense and Vase the Decrees of which by occasion we rehearsed once before They are both auncient and of greate authority and honored with the presence of
many notable fathers as Augustine and other But especially for the approuing of our faith and condemnation of the aduersaries part the whole processe of the great Councell of Florence must be noted for there the question of purgatory and prayers for the deade was fully handeled by the most learned of both the Latine and Greeke Church the Patriarche of Constantinople him selfe with the Legats of Armenia and other nations of that parte being present and fully condescending with the Romane Church vpon the trueth of purgatory and other graue mysteries into the doubt of which that part of the Church by schisme miscredit of their forefathers had fallen into not loÌ„g before and so made perfect protestation of their faith with the abiuring of the contrary as heresie But omitting that longe processe and large treatie of the matter for the establishing of euery mans conscience I wil conclude vp all the matter with the Councell and the holy Ghosts determination of all the whole cause in these wordes Si verè poenitentes in Dei charitate decesserint antequam dignis poenitentiae fructibus de commissis satisfecerint omissis eorum animas poenis purgatorijs purgari vt à poenis huiusmodi releuentur prodesse eis viuorum fidelium suffragia missaruÌ„ scilicet sacrificia orationes eleemosynas alia pietatis officia quae a fidelibus pro alijs fidelibus fieri consueuerunt secundum ecclesiae instituta VVe define and determine that true penitents departing in the fauour of God before they satisfied for their negligencies or faultes committed by worthy fructes of penaunce shall be clensed by purgatory paines and likewise for the release thereof the prayers of the faithfull the sacrifice of the blessed Masse and almes with other thinges customably practised by the faithfull for their freindes decessed according to the ordinaunce of Gods Church to be profitable CAP. XV. 1 ANd for our parte it is sufficient that we knowe God in his holy worde to be the first founder of our doctrine and therefore that they lye blasphemously which woulde make any heretike the author of it And as for the authority of Councels that is alleaged against vs we haue shewed before that the decrees of 95. Can. of Car. the forth and second of Vase are flatly falsified which speake not at all of oblations for the deade but oblations of the deade that is such mony as the departed haue bequethed to the vse of the poore The 79. Can. of the forth Councell of Carthage decreed that if penitents dyed before absolution they shoulde haue their memory commended with prayers and oblations The Bracarense decree Can. 39. prescribeth how the mony offered at such commemoration of the deade shoulde be distributed The 34. Can. of the same Councell wherevnto he pointeth vs in this place decreeth that for them that kill them selues no commemoration shoulde be made nor that they shoulde be buried with Psalmes But wherefore trowe you did he omit the next Canon to it which decreeth that neither the commemoration of the holy oblation nor the office of singing Psalmes should be bestowed vpon them that were cathechised and dyed before they were baptised Either he sawe not the booke him selfe or else he misliked that phrase the commemoration of the holy oblation wherby the Bishoppes of that Councell expound what they meane when they named the holy communion to be a sacrifice That is they did not take it to be so properly but onely a commemoration of the holy sacrifice of christ As also when we reade in the olde writers or councells oblation for the deade we must not alwayes vnderstand the celebration of the communion as the Papastes imagine but that monye which first was offered for almes and afterwards superstitiously was taken to be a kind of redemption for their sinnes As in the 11. Councell of Toledo cap. 12. is declared where they decree of such penitents as dyed before reconciliation Placuit nobis vt memoria talium in ecclesâ—s commendetur oblatio pro eorum delicto a presbyteris recipiatur It pleaseth vs say the Bishops of that Synode that the memory of such maye be commended in the Churches and the oblation for their offence maye be taken by the priestes This office that was bestowed vppon the deade which so generally of the olde writers and councells is called a memorye vndoubtedly tooke the name of that which it first was Namely nothing but a memory with thankes giuing which after was corrupted to a prayer for them Lykewise the oblation as Origen testifieth at the first was nothing but almes to the releife of the poore for ioy of the rest of them that were departed and for comfort and godly exercise of them that were a liue But afterwarde it grew to be compted a redemption for the sinnes of the departed and the name of oblation was drawen further to the celebration of the communion and to be compted a sacrifice for the quicke and the deade But before this Councell there was an other Synode helde in Spayne at Toledo called Toletan 3. cap. 21. Where it was decreed that they which by Gods calling departed out of this life shoulde be caâ—yed to their graues onely with singing of Psalmes Forbidding that funerall song which was wonte to be song to the deade and all other vnseemely gestures of morning If you saye this doth not exclude prayers and oblations they adde that it must be thought sufficient for the buriall of Christian mens bodyes that the office of singing of godly Psalmes is bestowed in hope of the resurrection And so throughout the Canon they woulde haue men comforted by the hope of the resurrection affirming that Christian mens bodyes throughout the worlde ought to be no otherwise buried As for the decree of the Councell of Florence is but a meere mockerie For it was helde not past seuen score yeares a goe when at the same time there was an other Councell holden at Basill against it in which the Pope Engenius the fourth who gathered that mocke Coâ—ncell of Ferraria and Florentia was deposed and an other Pope chosen against him So there was one Pope and his councell in Italy and an other Pope with his councell in Germanie Goodly gawdes for fooles to playe with all As for the holy councel which was helde the other day at Trent you did well to put in the margent for it was not worthy to come in the texte If the determination of that councell be so holy why do you Papistes daily breake a nombre of canons decreed therein which conteins scarse a-shadow of reformation But you can dispense with councells as you liste To omit all other canons why doe not your bishoppes and parish priests as often as they minister the sacraments to the people declare the effect of them to such as receiue them in the mother tongue Session 8. c. 7. 2 The which graue determination if any man be so willfull to contemne Let him