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Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
authority_n bishop_n roman_a rome_n 2,365 5 6.7055 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A27112 Certamen religiosum, or, A conference between the late King of England and the late Lord Marquesse of Worcester concerning religion together with a vindication of the Protestant cause from the pretences of the Marquesse his last papers which the necessity of the King's affaires denyed him oportunity to answer. Bayly, Thomas, d. 1657? 1651 (1651) Wing B1507; ESTC R23673 451,978 466

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your_o religion_n antiquity_n and_o you_o shall_v find_v as_o much_o difference_n in_o their_o article_n and_o we_o as_o can_v be_v between_o church_n that_o be_v most_o opposite_a come_v home_o to_o your_o own_o country_n and_o derive_v your_o descent_n from_o wickliff_n and_o search_v for_o his_o tenant_n in_o the_o book_n of_o martyr_n and_o you_o shall_v find_v they_o quite_o contrary_a to_o we_o neither_o among_o any_o of_o your_o modern_a protestant_n shall_v you_o find_v any_o other_o agreement_n but_o in_o this_o one_o thing_n that_o they_o all_o protest_v against_o the_o pope_n show_v i_o but_o any_o protestant_a country_n in_o the_o world_n where_o reformation_n as_o you_o call_v it_o ever_o set_v her_o foot_n where_o she_o be_v not_o as_o well_o attend_v with_o sacrilege_n as_o usher_v by_o rebellion_n and_o i_o shall_v lay_v my_o hand_n upon_o my_o mouth_n for_o ever_o king_n my_o lord_n my_o lord_n you_o be_v go_v beyond_o the_o scope_n of_o your_o argument_n which_o 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then_o he_o say_v observe_v as_o distinction_n of_o feast_n and_o ordinary_a day_n etc._n etc._n 1._o these_o be_v thing_n of_o a_o inferior_a alloy_n in_o comparison_n of_o many_o thing_n wherein_o protestant_n charge_v the_o church_n of_o answ_n rome_n to_o be_v alter_v from_o what_o of_o old_a it_o be_v 2._o the_o same_o thing_n may_v be_v observe_v of_o old_a yet_o not_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n as_o now_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n they_o be_v viz._n so_o as_o to_o place_v the_o worship_n of_o god_n in_o such_o thing_n so_o they_o now_o do_v which_o make_v 15._o ferus_fw-la though_o one_o of_o their_o own_o author_n cry_v out_o behold_v our_o stupidity_n and_o perverseness_n and_o again_o o_o preposterous_a religion_n 3._o if_o protestant_n have_v abolish_v such_o thing_n beside_o that_o they_o may_v lawful_o do_v it_o god_n in_o
father_n here_o allege_v by_o the_o marquesse_n against_o it_o irenaeus_n who_o word_n the_o marquesse_n produce_v not_o but_o bellarmine_n 1._o do_v say_v only_o that_o of_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o scripture_n quaedam_fw-la some_o be_v such_o that_o we_o must_v commend_v unto_o god_n mean_v that_o we_o can_v perfect_o know_v they_o 47._o this_o be_v nothing_o repugnant_a to_o what_o we_o say_v nor_o that_o which_o be_v say_v by_o origen_n who_o the_o marquesse_n only_o cit_v at_o large_a contra_fw-la supra_fw-la cell_n but_o i_o find_v both_o the_o book_n and_o the_o word_n in_o bellarmine_n viz._n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v multis_fw-la locis_fw-la obscura_fw-la in_o many_o place_n obscure_a of_o which_o what_o protestant_n ay_o marvel_n do_v make_v any_o question_n so_o when_o ambrose_n epist_n 44._o call_v the_o scripture_n a_o sea_n and_o a_o depth_n of_o prophetical_a riddle_n and_o hierom_n praefat._n comment_n in_o ephes_n say_v that_o he_o take_v great_a pain_n to_o understand_v the_o scripture_n and_o austin_n epist_n 119._o cap._n 21._o say_v that_o the_o thing_n of_o holy_a scripture_n which_o he_o know_v not_o be_v more_o than_o those_o he_o know_v and_o dionysius_n b._n of_o corinth_n cite_v by_o eusebius_n hist_o l._n 7._o c._n 20_o say_v that_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v far_o more_o profound_a than_o his_o wit_n can_v reach_v what_o be_v all_o this_o against_o protestant_n who_o only_o hold_v that_o the_o scripture_n in_o thing_n that_o concern_v faith_n and_o manner_n be_v not_o so_o obscure_a but_o that_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v read_v or_o hear_v by_o all_o and_o that_o all_o may_v profit_v by_o the_o read_n or_o hear_v of_o they_o and_o in_o this_o sense_n bellarmine_n yield_v that_o chrysostome_n in_o 2._o diverse_a place_n do_v affirm_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v plain_a and_o easy_a viz._n to_o shake_v off_o the_o laziness_n of_o many_o who_o may_v if_o they_o will_v read_v the_o scripture_n with_o much_o benefit_n and_o beside_o we_o hold_v that_o where_o the_o scripture_n be_v obscure_a the_o interpretation_n of_o it_o be_v to_o be_v fetch_v from_o the_o scripture_n itself_o against_o which_o these_o father_n say_v nothing_o but_o both_o diverse_a of_o these_o and_o also_o diverse_a other_o as_o have_v be_v show_v do_v plain_o avouch_v it_o the_o marquesse_n proceed_v say_v we_o say_v that_o this_o church_n can_v 61._o err_v you_o say_v it_o can_v we_o have_v scripture_n for_o what_o we_o say_v such_o scripture_n that_o will_v tell_v you_o that_o fool_n can_v err_v therein_o isaiah_n 35._o 8._o such_o scripture_n that_o will_v tell_v you_o if_o you_o neglect_v to_o hear_v it_o you_o shall_v be_v a_o heathen_a and_o a_o publican_n mat._n 18._o 17._o such_o scripture_n as_o will_v tell_v you_o that_o this_o church_n shall_v be_v unto_o christ_n a_o glorious_a church_n that_o shall_v be_v without_o spot_n or_o wrinkle_n ephes_n 5._o 27._o such_o a_o church_n as_o shall_v be_v enliven_v for_o ever_o with_o his_o spirit_n isaiah_n 59_o 21._o the_o father_n affirm_v the_o same_o etc._n etc._n concern_v the_o church_n err_v or_o not_o err_v we_o must_v distinguish_v answ_n of_o the_o church_n and_o of_o error_n the_o church_n be_v either_o visible_a which_o consist_v both_o of_o good_a and_o bad_a which_o therefore_o be_v compare_v to_o a_o net_n etc._n etc._n mat._n 13._o 47._o etc._n etc._n or_o invisible_a which_o consist_v only_o of_o the_o elect_n and_o true_a believer_n the_o lord_n know_v who_o be_v his_o 2_o tim._n 2._o 19_o man_n may_v know_v who_o profess_v themselves_o to_o be_v his_o but_o who_o be_v indeed_o only_a god_n know_v all_o the_o elect_n they_o be_v the_o church_n 78._o say_v bernard_n and_o to_o the_o same_o effect_n austin_n the_o church_n consist_v of_o those_o that_o be_v eccles_n good_a who_o build_v upon_o the_o rock_n not_o of_o those_o that_o build_v upon_o the_o sand._n as_o for_o error_n it_o be_v either_o damnable_a or_o not_o damnable_a now_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o invisible_a church_n can_v err_v damnable_o for_o this_o be_v that_o church_n which_o christ_n speak_v of_o and_o say_v that_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o it_o mat._n 16._o 18._o but_o for_o the_o church_n visible_a whether_o our_o adversary_n mean_v the_o church_n virtual_a whereby_o they_o understand_v the_o pope_n or_o the_o church_n representative_a that_o be_v a_o general_n council_n we_o hold_v that_o it_o may_v err_v and_o that_o damnable_o the_o scripture_n allege_v be_v not_o against_o this_o assertion_n that_o esai_n 35._o 8._o speak_v not_o of_o the_o church_n but_o of_o a_o way_n call_v there_o the_o way_n of_o holiness_n so_o sure_a and_o safe_a that_o wayfaring_a man_n though_o fool_n shall_v not_o err_v therein_o that_o mat._n 18._o 17._o only_a show_n that_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n be_v just_o admonish_v by_o the_o church_n aught_o to_o submit_v to_o the_o admonition_n of_o it_o or_o else_o be_v to_o be_v account_v as_o a_o publican_n or_o heathen_a but_o this_o be_v far_o from_o prove_v the_o church_n infallibility_n that_o ephes_n 5._o 27._o show_n not_o what_o the_o church_n be_v here_o in_o this_o world_n but_o what_o it_o shall_v be_v hereafter_o in_o the_o world_n to_o come_v retractat_fw-la it_o be_v not_o so_o to_o be_v understand_v say_v austin_n as_o if_o the_o church_n be_v now_o so_o but_o that_o it_o be_v prepare_v that_o it_o may_v be_v so_o and_o according_o loc_n bede_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n the_o church_n shall_v be_v full_o and_o perfect_o without_o spot_n or_o wrinkle_n etc._n etc._n for_o when_o as_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o only_o say_v that_o he_o may_v present_v it_o to_o himself_o a_o church_n not_o have_v spot_n or_o wrinkle_n but_o also_o add_v glorious_a he_o sufficient_o signify_v when_o it_o shall_v be_v without_o spot_n or_o wrinkle_n that_o esai_n 59_o 21._o show_v that_o god_n will_v give_v both_o his_o word_n and_o his_o spirit_n for_o ever_o unto_o his_o church_n but_o it_o speak_v of_o the_o invisible_a church_n the_o elect_a and_o godly_a such_o as_o turn_v from_o transgression_n ver_fw-la 20._o not_o of_o any_o outward_a visible_a church_n which_o have_v no_o such_o privilege_n but_o that_o it_o may_v err_v and_o so_o err_v as_o to_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o church_n as_o the_o example_n of_o the_o church_n of_o asia_n mention_v revel_v 2._o &_o 3._o do_v make_v manifest_a for_o the_o father_n the_o first_o who_o the_o marquesse_n cit_v be_v austin_n who_o as_o before_o be_v show_v hold_v general_n counsel_n liable_a to_o error_n and_o such_o as_o that_o the_o former_a may_v be_v correct_v by_o the_o latter_a that_o therefore_o which_o he_o say_v err_v contra_fw-la crescon_n l._n 1._o c._n 33._o so_o i_o presume_v it_o shall_v be_v not_o cap._n 3._o as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o marquesse_n his_o paper_n viz._n that_o we_o hold_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n when_o we_o do_v that_o which_o have_v please_v the_o whole_a church_n which_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o same_o scripture_n do_v commend_v that_o i_o say_v must_v be_v understand_v so_o far_o forth_o as_o the_o scripture_n do_v commend_v the_o church_n we_o do_v well_o and_o conformable_o to_o the_o scripture_n in_o conform_v to_o it_o but_o i_o see_v not_o how_o austin_n himself_o can_v hold_v the_o church_n to_o be_v so_o commend_v in_o the_o scripture_n as_o that_o we_o must_v simple_o and_o absolute_o do_v what_o the_o church_n please_v for_o then_o what_o need_v of_o have_v one_o general_n council_n to_o be_v correct_v and_o amend_v by_o another_o our_o adversary_n themselves_o when_o they_o please_v make_v no_o scruple_n of_o wave_v and_o alter_v that_o which_o be_v general_o hold_v and_o practise_v in_o the_o church_n i_o let_v pass_v say_v maldonate_fw-it the_o opinion_n of_o 53._o austin_n and_o of_o innocentius_n which_o about_o 600._o year_n do_v prevail_v in_o the_o church_n that_o the_o eucharist_n be_v necessary_a even_o for_o infant_n the_o thing_n be_v now_o declare_v by_o the_o church_n both_o by_o the_o custom_n of_o many_o age_n and_o also_o by_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n that_o it_o be_v not_o only_o not_o necessary_a for_o they_o but_o also_o that_o it_o be_v not_o meet_v to_o be_v give_v unto_o they_o cyprian_a epist_n 55._o who_o be_v the_o next_o that_o the_o marquesse_n cit_v speak_v indeed_o of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n but_o how_o so_o as_o to_o censure_v and_o excommunicate_v those_o that_o deserve_v it_o about_o that_o he_o write_v unto_o cornelius_n bishop_n of_o rome_n but_o this_o be_v much_o short_a of_o prove_v the_o church_n to_o be_v infallible_a and_o that_o it_o can_v err_v cyprian_n be_v far_o from_o
he_o take_v aquinas_n to_o be_v resolute_a in_o this_o point_n and_o he_o cite_v he_o say_v as_o predestination_n do_v include_v a_o will_n to_o confer_v grace_n and_o glory_n so_o reprobation_n do_v include_v a_o will_n to_o suffer_v one_o to_o fall_v into_o sin_n and_o to_o inslict_v the_o punishment_n of_o damnation_n for_o sin_n hence_o alvarez_n infer_v that_o according_a to_o ibib._n aquinas_n the_o permission_n of_o the_o first_o sin_n for_o which_o a_o reprobate_n be_v damn_v be_v the_o effect_n of_o reprobation_n and_o he_o add_v that_o of_o this_o permission_n there_o be_v no_o cause_n in_o the_o reprobate_n because_o before_o the_o permission_n of_o the_o first_o sin_n and_o before_o the_o first_o sin_n there_o be_v no_o other_o sin_n for_o if_o there_o be_v than_o it_o be_v not_o simple_o the_o first_o sin_n or_o man_n shall_v commit_v some_o other_o sin_n before_o which_o god_n do_v not_o permit_v whereas_o no_o sin_n can_v be_v commit_v but_o by_o god_n permission_n he_o cite_v also_o aquinas_n again_o speak_v thus_o 12._o why_o god_n do_v choose_v some_o to_o glory_n and_o reprobate_v other_o there_o be_v no_o reason_n but_o only_a god_n will._n and_o have_v cite_v that_o of_o the_o apostle_n rom._n 9_o the_o child_n be_v not_o yet_o bear_v neither_o have_v do_v any_o good_a or_o evil_a that_o the_o purpose_n of_o god_n according_a to_o election_n may_v stand_v not_o of_o work_n but_o of_o he_o that_o call_v it_o be_v say_v unto_o she_o the_o elder_a shall_v serve_v the_o young_a as_o it_o be_v write_v jacob_n have_v i_o love_v but_o esau_n have_v i_o hate_v have_v cite_v this_o i_o say_v he_o add_v that_o the_o apostle_n here_o both_o austin_n and_o aquinas_n avouch_v as_o much_o plain_o signify_v that_o in_o the_o absolute_a election_n and_o reprobation_n of_o man_n god_n do_v not_o look_v at_o man_n merit_n or_o demerit_n but_o of_o his_o own_o pleasure_n do_v choose_v and_o predestinate_a one_o to_o glory_n and_o not_o predestinate_a another_o but_o by_o a_o absolute_a will_n do_v determine_v to_o suffer_v he_o to_o sin_n and_o to_o be_v harden_v or_o to_o persevere_v in_o sin_n to_o the_o end_n of_o his_o life_n and_o to_o inflict_v eternal_a punishment_n upon_o he_o for_o sin_n he_o bring_v in_o also_o austin_n confute_v 13._o those_o who_o say_v that_o esau_n and_o jacob_n be_v not_o yet_o bear_v god_n do_v therefore_o hate_v the_o one_o and_o love_v the_o other_o because_o he_o do_v foresee_v the_o work_n that_o they_o will_v do_v who_o say_v austin_n can_v but_o wonder_n that_o the_o apostle_n shall_v not_o find_v out_o this_o acute_a reason_n for_o he_o do_v not_o see_v it_o etc._n etc._n no_o but_o fly_v to_o this_o he_o say_v to_o moses_n i_o will_v have_v mercy_n on_o who_o i_o will_v have_v mercy_n etc._n etc._n so_o then_o it_o be_v not_o of_o he_o that_o will_v nor_o of_o he_o that_o run_v but_o of_o god_n that_o show_v mercy_n and_o that_o none_o of_o our_o romish_a adversary_n may_v sleight_n austin_n in_o this_o point_n alvarez_n about_o the_o begin_n of_o his_o work_n have_v 5._o a_o disputation_n to_o show_v what_o authority_n this_o father_n judgement_n be_v of_o in_o the_o point_n of_o grace_n and_o predestination_n he_o show_v that_o not_o only_o prosper_v but_o also_o many_o bishop_n of_o rome_n do_v approve_v of_o austin_n 3._o doctrine_n concern_v these_o point_n and_o do_v determine_v it_o to_o be_v sound_a and_o good_a and_o therefore_o in_o the_o testimony_n of_o austin_n we_o have_v many_o testimony_n and_o such_o as_o be_v irrefragable_a with_o those_o with_o who_o now_o we_o have_v to_o do_v but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o some_o other_o late_a writer_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v say_v as_o to_o this_o point_n concern_v reprobation_n god_n from_o eternity_n say_v cardinal_n 13._o cajetan_n do_v true_o choose_v some_o and_o reprobate_v other_o do_v love_v some_o and_o hate_v other_o in_o that_o from_o eternity_n his_o will_n be_v to_o vouchsafe_v some_o the_o help_n of_o his_o grace_n whereby_o to_o bring_v they_o to_o eternal_a glory_n and_o from_o eternity_n also_o his_o will_n be_v to_o leave_v some_o to_o themselves_o and_o not_o to_o afford_v they_o that_o gracious_a help_n which_o he_o have_v decree_v to_o afford_v the_o elect._n and_o this_o be_v for_o god_n to_o hate_v and_o to_o reprobate_v they_o with_o which_o yet_o it_o do_v well_o stand_v that_o none_o be_v damn_v but_o by_o his_o own_o work_n because_o neither_o the_o sentence_n nor_o execution_n of_o damnation_n be_v before_o that_o such_o reprobate_n do_v sin_n so_o also_o †_o estius_fw-la say_v that_o the_o apostle_n rom._n 9_o do_v teach_v that_o 13._o neither_o man_n election_n nor_o their_o reprobation_n be_v from_o the_o merit_n of_o work_n but_o that_o god_n by_o the_o mere_a pleasure_n of_o his_o will_n do_v choose_v some_o and_o reprobate_a other_o and_o again_o upon_o those_o word_n o_o man_n who_o be_v thou_o that_o reply_v 20._o against_o god_n etc._n etc._n he_o say_v that_o the_o apostle_n intent_n be_v to_o answer_v not_o so_o much_o the_o objection_n as_o the_o cause_n of_o object_v and_o that_o therefore_o he_o answer_v concern_v the_o will_n of_o god_n elect_v and_o reprobate_v and_o deny_v that_o the_o reason_n of_o it_o be_v to_o be_v inquire_v by_o man_n who_o be_v god_n creature_n and_o make_v by_o he_o yea_o that_o by_o the_o example_n of_o a_o potter_n the_o apostle_n show_v that_o god_n do_v this_o out_o of_o the_o liberty_n of_o his_o will_n without_o any_o other_o reason_n and_o he_o add_v that_o thomas_n aquinas_n do_v also_o thus_o right_o expound_v the_o word_n of_o the_o apostle_n ult_n bradwardine_n who_o entitle_v the_o book_n which_o he_o write_v of_o the_o cause_n of_o god_n be_v not_o to_o be_v omit_v he_o say_v it_o be_v true_a god_n do_v not_o eternal_o punish_v any_o without_o his_o fault_n go_v before_o temporal_o and_o abide_v eternal_o yet_o god_n do_v not_o eternal_o reprobate_v any_o because_o of_o sin_n as_o a_o cause_n antecedent_o move_v god_n will_n what_o do_v our_o divine_n say_v even_o such_o as_o be_v of_o the_o more_o rigid_a sort_n as_o concern_v this_o high_a and_o abstruse_a point_n of_o reprobation_n what_o i_o say_v do_v they_o lay_v more_o than_o be_v say_v by_o these_o great_a and_o eminent_a doctor_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o before_o they_o by_o austin_n and_o before_o both_o he_o and_o they_o as_o both_o he_o and_o they_o conceive_v by_o the_o apostle_n paul_n himself_o the_o decree_n of_o reprobation_n say_v bishop_n davenant_n be_v not_o thus_o to_o be_v conceive_v i_o will_v damn_v judas_n whether_o he_o believe_v or_o not_o believe_v repent_v 352._o or_o not_o repent_v for_o this_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o evangelicall_n promise_v but_o thus_o i_o be_o absolute_o determine_v not_o to_o give_v unto_o judas_n that_o special_a grace_n which_o will_v cause_v he_o to_o believe_v and_o repent_v and_o i_o be_o absolute_o purpose_v to_o permit_v 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believe_v it_o yet_o we_o do_v not_o therefore_o believe_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v god_n word_n because_o the_o church_n do_v say_v it_o but_o because_o god_n do_v reveal_v it_o if_o the_o church_n say_v he_o do_v make_v way_n for_o we_o to_o know_v such_o sacred_a book_n we_o must_v not_o therefore_o rest_v there_o but_o we_o must_v go_v further_o and_o must_v rely_v on_o god_n solid_a truth_n and_o then_o he_o bring_v in_o that_o very_a speech_n of_o austin_n and_o show_v what_o he_o mean_v by_o it_o hereby_o be_v understand_v say_v he_o what_o austin_n mean_v when_o he_o say_v i_o shall_v not_o believe_v the_o gospel_n except_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n do_v move_v i_o and_o again_o by_o the_o catholic_n i_o have_v believe_v the_o gospel_n for_o austin_n have_v to_o do_v with_o the_o manichee_n who_o without_o dispute_n will_v have_v a_o certain_a gospel_n of_o they_o believe_v and_o so_o will_v establish_v the_o faith_n of_o the_o manichee_n austin_n therefore_o 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of_o this_o learned_a romanist_n because_o no_o protestant_a can_v speak_v more_o clear_o and_o more_o full_o to_o the_o purpose_n that_o which_o the_o marquesse_n after_o add_v be_v nothing_o against_o we_o viz._n that_o there_o be_v a_o church_n before_o there_o be_v any_o scripture_n that_o though_o the_o scripture_n be_v a_o light_n yet_o we_o have_v need_n of_o some_o to_o guide_v we_o though_o it_o be_v the_o food_n of_o our_o soul_n yet_o there_o must_v be_v some_o to_o administer_v it_o unto_o we_o though_o it_o be_v a_o antidote_n against_o the_o infection_n of_o the_o devil_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o for_o every_o one_o to_o be_v a_o compounder_n of_o the_o ingredient_n that_o though_o it_o be_v the_o only_a sword_n and_o buckler_n to_o defend_v the_o church_n from_o her_o ghostly_a enemy_n yet_o this_o do_v not_o exclude_v the_o noble_a army_n of_o martyr_n and_o the_o holy_a church_n which_o through_o all_o the_o world_n do_v acknowledge_v christ_n all_o this_o i_o say_v be_v 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etc._n etc._n and_o you_o may_v as_o well_o say_v he_o deny_v the_o bless_a trinity_n for_o we_o have_v no_o such_o word_n in_o scripture_n only_a inference_n as_o that_o which_o you_o have_v already_o deny_v for_o which_o we_o have_v plain_a scripture_n etc._n etc._n but_o 1._o it_o be_v not_o altogether_o so_o that_o what_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v affirm_v the_o same_o they_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n answ_n do_v affirm_v also_o for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v 9_o do_v affirm_v allege_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o apostle_n for_o proof_n thereof_o that_o concupiscence_n have_v of_o itself_o the_o nature_n of_o sin_n even_o in_o the_o regenerate_a which_o the_o romanist_n deny_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n accurse_v