off this then falleth he from his conning distinction off hauing it ambitiously and by election For considering that Bernarde saith he is forbidden it and speaketh not there against the abuse but against the vse off dominion in a bishop it followeth that domynion nether falleth into a bishop in that he is a bishop nor can be receiued off him being offred off the cyuill Magistrate The reader therfore may see that the exposition yow follow off this place doth quite ouerthrowe the bishops answer ād openeth the Papistes mouth which he had stopped Yf this cawse should be tried by autoritie yow could gaine nothing Not onely Caluin Iewell with the auncient fathers which he alledgeth but Bulling Zuing. Gualter with a a nomber of others doo expound it as I haue doon and proue by those places off the Euangelistes in plaine wordes that there is no superioritie off one minister ouer an other and that with fuller wordes then Caluin vseth And euen the very same word Maioritie which yow say in the margent off the text is proued by these places Bullinger affirmeth to be ouertrowen by the same As for yow albeit yow pretend Musculus c. yet in very deed these answers which yow make are taken properly owt of Pigghius which hath all those corners reasons and shiftes almost word for word as yow haue cowched them here in this treatise I report me whether I haue spoken to the meaning or no yow haue mustered them by fyrst second third I will also answer them seuerally And to the first I answer that although our Saui. Christ saied not no man owght to be great amongest yow yet he saied as muche for when he saith the greatest shal be as the least he that is first as seruant to all he fetching downe the greatest to the least and making the cheiftie amongest them a seruice vnto them all taketh away all dominion off one ouer an other This reason I hauing answered before was vnneedfull to be here repeated so remaineth for him to proue that if our Sauiour Christ had ment to take away all domynion off the Apostles one ouer an other then he would haue saied no man owght to be great amongest yow and that there was no other way to giue owt this sense but this The second concludeth that our Sauiour had no meaning to take away superiours amongest Christians nothing to this question For no man denieth but there owght to be superiours As for that he interlaceth off Peter◠cheifty it is answered afterward The similitudes he vseth can not win his superioritie off one minister ouer an other For as for heauenly bodies althowgh one off them be more excellent then an other yet they exercise no dominion one ouer an other Therfore if it proue any thing it proueth that excellency off giftes amongest ecclesiasticall persons doth not lift them vp in autoritie and commaundement one ouer an other but onely maketh a differēce in order ād comelines Which we haue shewed in the beginning to be in ecclesiasticall mynistery where we willingly receiue order opposed to confusion refusing domynion opposed vnto subiection For the heauenly spirites what will yow alledge to proue that they haue domynion one ouer an other The place of the Ephesians thrones domynions principalities povvres if yow doo it is boldier then Augustine durst doo But if they be superiour one to an other that superioritie is answered in the church by superioritie off mynisters ouer the people If they be seuered in orders one from an other that is not denied to be in officers off the church If they exercise domynion one ouer an other that is expressed in commen wealthes So that if the Answ were able to proue all these which will be hard for him withowt Denyses dreames yet he may see they conclude not a domynion off one minister ouer an other The third reason likewise concludeth not against this cawse and to thes two reasons I answered at large Which if the Ans would haue taken away he owght to haue shewed that there can be no superioritie of one ouer an other in the church onles one minister be superior to another but that he passeth slily by and picketh a quarell vnto the examples To his exception against the first example that there is inequalitie amongest seruantes I answer there is none but by the maisters expresse appointement And therfore if he will haue aduantage theroff he muste proue that it is the Lordes ordinance that one minister shoulde rule ouer an other beside that it is enough to mainteine mine answer off equalitie off seruantes in a familie that it is so for the most part ād whē my meaning was of seruātes left in one and the same order yt is owt off time to alledge this exāple Secōdly the inequalitie there made is not of one steward ouer an other but ouer the familie which he ministreth vnto and therfore this similitude maketh to shew that one minister is not ruler ouer an other but euery minister ruler off his flock Thirdly that similitude off gouernement off the steward Math. 24. being propounded as a picture to set forth the rule off ministers ouer their flockes declareth not onely how there owght no gouernement to be erected in the church but by commaundment off God but also how far it owght to be from that absolute domynion or lordly pomp which the Answ would bring in which Musc a great man with the D. declareth when he saieth He speaketh after the commen faschion for this vvas the office of the principall seruant to gyue euery man his diet he vvas not appointed to be lord off others As for his exception against my other example of equalitie off brethren the inequalitie which the scripture maketh betwene the elder brother and the rest is nothing les then any rule or autoritie to commaund them but onely a reuerence which the younger owght to beare to the elder which we willingly graunt amongest the ministery that the younger men gyue place to the gray heares off the elder Thother preeminence off hauing two partes off the goodes wheroff the younger brethren had but one is no matter off inequalitie in autoritie wherof onely we speake wherin also we will not deny but one minister according to his charge off children may haue greater portion then other And both these exceptions are not taken against my allegation so muche as against the godly writers off our tyme Which to proue the equalitie of autoritie off the bishop off Rome with other bishops haue alledged that they called one an other brethren that they vvere fellovv seruantes Dominion here forbidden saith the Ans is not of one minister ouer an other but ouer the people wherin he is greatly deceiued For our Sau. Christ speaking to his 12. disciples according to S. Math. saith vvhosoeuer shall be great amongest yovv shall be yovvr minister and vvhosoeuer amongest yovv shall be fyrst shall be yovvr
Bishop off the paris hes there which when by common construction yt maye be aswell referred vnto Alexandria onely or vnto the reste off Egypte onely or to bothe together yt was to greate boldnes not onely to gather this sense of Eusebius but also to bringe him in so speaking But that the worde there can not be referred vnto the reste off Aegypte but onely hathe relation vnto the parishes off Alexandria and that as there are no suche wordes as yow ascribe vnto Eusebius so there can be no suche sense as yow Imagin yt may easely and clearly be vnderstanded off that before and after For if nether the bishops of Alexandria before Demetrius nor those after him vnto the times wherin Cyprian and Cornelius liued had that Iurisdiction ouer Egipt which yow Imagin then by all reasonable vnderstanding yt muste be estemed that this worde there owght to be restreined vnto Alexandria Abilius the thirde Bishop off Alexandria after Marke had bene in that churche about the yeare of our Lorde a 100. Eusebius affirmeth to haue bene bishop off the parishe off Alexandria but of the other partes of Egypt maketh no mētion He saith the same off Primus succeding him in that bishoprick off Alexandria the same off Iustus which succeded Primus the same of Eumenes which succeded him the same off an other Marke which succeded him the same of Celadion which succeded him the same off Agrippa whō also he calleth Agripinus which succeded him And where speaking off all the former he saide they vvere bishops off the Parishe off Alexandria off Iuliane which succeded Agripinus he saith he gouerned the churches in or at Alexandria vttering the same thinge by diuers wordes Vnto this Iuliane succeded Demetrius off whom is saide as before hathe bene shewed yea off those which succeded Demetrius as famous and as renoumed as he there is no suche thinge For off receiued the ministerie vvhich vvas at Alexandria likewise of Dionisius which succeded Heracles that he receiued the gouernement of the churches vvhich vvere at Alexandria which Dionysius liued abowte the times off our Cyprian and Cornelius which we haue presently in hande When therfore the Bishops of Alexandria so famous are not red to haue had bishoply autoritie off anie Prouince but are conteined within the circuit off one citie vntill the time off Cyprian and Cornelius yt appeareth not onely that the D. hathe bene abused in thes wordes off Eusebius but that this owght to be an other marke to know that nether Cyprian nor Cornelius had any Bishoplicke autoritie at all further then the cyties wherin their churches were And withall appeareth the cawse why Euseb did no more particularly restreine the bishoprick off Demetrius vnto Alexandria namely for that he had so often spoken before of the precinctes of that bishoprick The next diu hath nothing worth answer being onely that which I in few wordes subscribed vnto Sauing this that Cyprian was Pupianus bishop which maketh nether whot nor kolde vnto this question seing that Pupianus was no bishop but one that sometime had bene off Cyprians churche But of answer to my argument that forasmuche as Cyprian condemneth the pride of Pupian for that his deede vvas like as if one should be appointed bishop of a bishop or iudge of iudge there is no newes wheras if yt were not a proude thinge to be bishop of a bishop c. Cypr. did with no good aduise set owte the faulte of Pupian by those wordes And that Cyprian complaineth not off any wronge doone to him as archbishop which the Ans afraied to affirme would haue his reader thinck but onely as he was Bishop yt appeareth manifestly by diuers places in that he denieth that he pressed him vvith further autoritie then that vvhich all bishops had by succession vnto the Apostels That Cyprian did not obiecte this to appointe hym selfe bishop of a bishop as a prowde name but as a prowde deede is a poore exception for if yt were a prowde deede to exercise the office off bishop ouer a bishop yt muste be also a proude name to be called the bishop off a bishop The Answ wordes carie no meaning with them to cōclude that which this cawse requireth For what meaneth this one bishop off a Prouince had no autoritie ouer another but were equall what is this to my reason which is that forsomuche as the godly vvriters proue the equalitie off the bishop off Rome vvith other bishops for that they called one another fellovves and brethren the bishops off dioceses and metropolitanes calling one an other fellovv bishop fellovv in office brother c doo therby declare that there vvas none vvhich ruled ouer an other For onles the reason be firme in the one yt is not good in the other But he answereth further Cyprian in calling the bishops off his Prouince fellow bishops and brethren declared therby the function to be all one So may the Papistes answer that the Bishop off Rome called the Bishops his fellowes and brethren becawse they had the same function and not in that for pollicie sake they were not subiect vnto him But as that so this is an absurd answer The Godly writers vse not this reason to proue that other bishops exercised the same ministerie off the word and Sacramentes with the bishop of Rome which the Pope him self confesseth but to proue that they were not vnder but off the same autoritie with him which he denieth The next answer Cyprian in calling them fellow bishops declareth his humble spirit is I doubt not althowgh I can not presently note the place another buckler off the Papistes againste this reason As if true humilitie did hinder any to take that honour which his lawfull office ether in churche or commen wealth doth put vpon him He further answereth that S. Peter calling the Bishops and Pastors to whom he wrote fellow Elders was notwithstanding higher in degree then they I graunt but I denie that therfore S. Peter could exercise dominion ouer them When it is saied that fellow bishop importeth equalitie yt is not ment so much for honour as for equalitie in autoritie that one hath ouer an other For in honour the bishop off Rome had some preeminence ouer the Alexandrine c. yt being graunted him to haue the first seat in meetinges which notwithstanding had no dominion Therfore this maketh directly against the dominion off Archbishops For if Peter in degree off ministrie aboue the pastors in calling them fellow elders renounced dominion ouer them how much more owght they forbeare to vse dominion ouer those with whom they carie the same yoke and degree off ministrie To that owt off Cyprian none of thē toke him self bishop off bishops he answereth he meaneth the title off vniuersall bishop which how absurdly it is spoken may appeare by that a before spoken off the Africane Councell His second answer is a pinch at Cyprians autoritie for that thes wordes were
vttered off him in that Councell where an error was decreed wherof hs was cheif autor Where he might with as good right reiect all that euer Cypriā wrote For albeit this were spokē in that Councell yet yt no more perteineth nor hathe no more acquaintance with that error then this that we are iustified by faithe alone Yf he woulde conclude that Cyprians autoritie is no sufficiente proofe considering that being a man he might erre in this pointe as he did in another it is that we willingly graunte and therfore call and crie vpon the D. as loude as we can that the whole cause may be tried by the scripture from which he flieth as Darckenes before the face off the light His thirde is by thes wordes none taketh on hym to be the bishop off bishops he mente that one bishop shoulde not tyrannically rule ouer another which is vntrew for Cypr. addeth that as an either thinge likewise forbidden So that where he saith none dothe ether make him selfe bishop off bishops or bynde his fellovves by tyrannicall feare the D. off twoo sentences maketh one and Cyprians or he expoundethe that is to say But doeth he not see how still he ministreth weapons vnto the Papistes by this friuolous answer for vnto the godly learned writers alledging this place to proue that the bishops off Rome haue no autoritie ouer other bishops the Papistes may answer with the D. that all that is mente off tyrannicall autoritie Fouthly he saith thes wordes Euery bishop hathe ftee libertie and free iudgment off his ovvne povver are not mente off iurisdiction but of iudgement and opinion As if there were les daunger in letting a bishop holde what opinion he thincketh good withowt controlement of an other bishop then in letting him gouerne his churche as him semeth best withowte the same controlement So that herin the D. flying from the smoke falleth into the fire The vanitie off which answer appeareth also by that in an other place where he saith there is but one bishopricke vvheroff euery bishop holdeth one part vvholy fully in all respectes Likewise in an other place he saith he holdeth his bishoprick off Christ vvho is the cheif bishop And most plainly it is confuted by that I haue alledged owt off Cyprian Where in expresse wordes he referreth this freedome off power which euery Bishop hath not as the D. to the bishops opinion but vnto the gouernement off his church Where for confirmacion off thes answers he saith otherwise a bishop should be exempted from all controlement off Synodes and other as well as of archbishops the answer is easy For althowgh Cyprian say no one Bishop can be iudged off an other bishop yet he denieth not but he may be iudged off the church And althowgh no one bishop haue autoritie ouer him yet a Councell off bishops may correct him And that this is one off those iudgementes off Christ Cyprian ment off and that in those wordes he doth not reserue the iudgement off the bishop offending vnto the day of the general iudgemēt may be shewed by that he saith Christ set thē bishops in their charges As therfore Cyprian calleth the placing off a bishop in his charge by the churche by the elders theroff and the next bishops the placing of Christ so he meaneth that iudgement giuen against a bishop offending by the church and Synodes is the iudgement of Christ That owt off Cyprian wherin the weight off the argument lyeth euery Bishop muste rule his ovvne flock him self as he that shall make account off his deed vnto the Lord he passeth by After to the wordes off Cyprian that nether he nor his fellovves vsed compulsion tovvardes any appointed any lavv to any seing that euery one set ouer the church hathe in gouernement theroff free disposition of his owne will werof he shall gyue accoumpte vnto the lorde he saith I left owte that which gyueth the solution and therupō according to his coustome picketh a quarell to translate the whole sentence Yet nether sheweth one word nor can shew lefte owte to make for him against me Onely he saithe vndowtedly Cyprian in saing he would not deale with other bishops c. meaneth those churches and bishops which he had nothing to doo with which is very straunge seing he hath before made him archbishop almost ouerall the world After he saith he would not haue suffered them if they had bene off his owne charge which is a grosse begging off that in question for yt is debated whether he had any bishops vnder his charge And what manner off interpretacion is this vve do violence to none nor appointe lavves to none that is to none in other Prouinces and euery bishop hathe povver of the gouernment of of his ovvne churche that is euery bishop owte off Cyprians prouince what a kold saying should this be that nether he nor any of his fellowes vsed violence towardes bishops off other Prouinces With whom they hauing so small intercommuning could scarce vse violence if they would Or to say they appointed no lawes to vvhom they had no coulor to gyue any And as this interprepretacion hauing lien in the Ans rack is pulled owt of all the ioyntes so that it is vtterly false may appeare by that before alledged owt off the Councell off Carthage Where wordes of like effect are vttered by Cyprian vnto the bishops off the same Prouince he was of Last of all becawse I may not haue that credite which the Ans to vnderstand this place off Cyprian yet I trust he vvill belieue Musculus Who of this place and others concludeth that vvhen Cyprian vvrote he did neuer so much as think off the povver off Patriarches off Metropolitanes off the bishop off Rome but esteemed that all bishops ovvght to haue like care and povver euery one in his ovvne church So beside this testimonie that Cyprians priest was nether Patriarch nor Metropolitane he hathe also that he was bishop of one church which is that I haue affirmed For the autoritie vvhich the archbishops and bishops haue ▪ there is an other place yt is sufficient here to shew that they had no iurisdiction one ouer an other in Cyprians times That owt off Cyprian towching ministers sacrificing is before answered To Cyprian saying the vnitie off the church is interteined by consent off bishops one vvith an other the D. answereth they agree neuer the worse by hauing a superior aboue them Albeit they agree neuer the worse yet if they agree neuer the better he owght as an vnprofitable tree which occupieth place in the lordes orchard be rooted owt Althowgh it shal God willing appeare that the Archbishops office is the knife which cut the cordes off vnitie which both was and otherwise might haue bene mainteined amongest the bishops The first reason why tharchbishop is necessarie is because there may be one to assemble them together As thowgh that was not doon before that office was
which the Ans hathe alledged yf yt be weighed dothe sufficiently declare how farre Dionysius was front that antoritie euer the churches off Pentapolis which he imagineth For there ys shewed bow when he vnderstoode off certeine bishops there leauened with the heresie of Sabellius he sente messengers to them to call them backe from their heresie And when they wente yet forwarde more impudently what iurisdiction doothe he exercise againste them doothe he cause them to appeare before him send owt the sentence off excōmunication remoue them from their charges suspende them at the leaste vntill some triall off their amendement none off all thes but saith he vvas by this stubbernes off theirs compelled to vvrite againste them And yet if Dionysius might haue vsed this autoritie he woulde no dowbte and if he had Athanasius would by no meanes haue let it passe For if he could haue alledged that Dionysius had ether deposed suspended or excommunicated those Sabellian bishops yt had bene a singular meanes to haue stopped the mouthe off the Arrians which woulde haue borne men in hande that Dionysius fauored Sabellius heresie and consequently also theirs And towching the gouernement off his owne churche in Alexandria how farre yt was from that lordlie dominion the bishops and archbishop vse now maie appeare in that he calleth the elders off the churche off Alexandria his felovv elders After folowethe one Gregory which he auoucheth owte of Euseb 7. li. 24. to haue gouerned all the churches throwghe Pontus firste this word all is not founde there Secondly yt is vtterly vntrue that he saith he gouerned all the churches For Eusebius ioineth Athenodorus with him as his matche in all pointes So that if there were any archbishop there it was two headed contrary to the archbishops institution supposed of his patrons Thirdly yt appeareth in an other place where Eusebius speaketh of them againe that they were not bishops off all the churches of Pontus but had onely their parishes or churches in Pontus And the cause why Euseb made mention of those onely was as is there apparant because they were the moste famous amongeste the Bishopes in those partes and therfore by all likelihood chosen owte off the reste were sent vnto the Councell off Antioche gathered against the heresie of Sabellius Therforè he which is saide off the D. to haue bene ruler off all the churches off Pontus is founde to haue but one onely parishe in that circuite Peter Bishop off Alexandria foloweth which hauing regarde vnto the time wherin he died was onely aboute eight yeares before the Councell off Nice So that the Answ in saying he was 20. yeares before must be vnderstāded of the tyme he entred into his bishoprick Of him Epiphanius saithe he had the administracion of all the churches of Aegypte was archbishop What manner off archbishoprick and gouernement this was may be gathered by that that Epiphanius saithe Miletius vvas archbishop likevvise and had the gouernement together vvith him And not that onely but that Miletius occupied the seconde place in the archbishopricke vvith Peter Wherby Epiphanius gyueth to vnderstande that there was the third and fourth and consequently as many archbishops as there were bishops off name and estimacion amongest them which beside their owne procured the good off other churches rounde aboute This is further confirmed in that Epiphanius as rendring the cause why he calleth Miletius Archbishop and to haue the seconde place after Peter saithe Miletius seemed to excell the other bishops in Aegypte And where yt is saide that Miletius vvas vnder peter yt is to be vnderstanded that he was vnder him in honor and not subiecte vnto him as vnto a commaunder or as to one which had dominion ouer him as yt shall appeare by the Councell off Nice after and as the discourse of Epiphanius storie plainely shewethe For where as betwene Peter and his adherentes off the one parte and Meletius and his felowes off the other being shut in in prison for testimonie off the trwthe there fell a controuersie abowte receiuing those which had fallen in time off persequution Peter as Epiphanius reporteth desired and made supplication vnto Miletius and the rest saying let vs receiue them and appoint them a penance And when he coulde not gaine his cawse by praier and supplication he spred owte a vaile in the middaste off the prison and proclaimed by a deacon that as manie as vvere off his syde ▪ shoulde come vnto him and those vvhich vvere off Melitius parte shoulde goe to him Wherupon a fevv ioined them selfes vnto him the greater nomber remaining vvhith Melitius In which counte off Epiphanius there is nether any autoritie or dominion pretended by Peter ouer the reste nor any subiection acknowledged off the other but there is to be seene contrariwise all felowlike behauiour of one towardes an other And onles this be the propertie of an Archbishop to be autor off a horrible schisme and rente in the churche whereas yt ys vaunted off him that he compoundeth schismes made by other ther appeareth nothing in Peter in that whole action Archbishoplike If the Answ say the prison was no place where he could exercise his archiepiscopall autoritie the replie is easie that he might as well exercise yt there as owt off prison For yt being a time off persequution he coulde vse no where any other constreint then by the ecclesiasticall censures and those hauing as appeareth a company with him in prison he might as well vse there as being at libertie Hitherto I trust hath appeared that there hath bene not so much as any footing or kold sent ether off archbishop or metropolitan suche as ours yt followeth to examin that owt off the Nicene Councell which bringeth the first tydinges of the Metropolitanes Where we hauing confessed that there were Metropolitanes denied that they vvere like ours how truly resteth to be considered First that which the Answ can most pretend owt off this Councell for iurisdiction off Metropolitanes ouer Bishops off the same Prouince is the bishop off Alexandria ovvght to haue povver ouer the bishops in Egypt Lybia and Pentapolis Thes are the sounding wordes and which carie the greatest noyse off Metropolitane autoritie Yf therfore it fall owt that thes wordes to haue power bring more shew in the eie then weight in the balance then the Answ is greatly fallen from his hope which thincketh to reape of this peace dominion off the Metropolitan ouer other bishops The wordes which the D. turneth to haue gouernement signifie in that place nothing but to g haue cheif dignitie or honour Which is apparant for that the same thing being attributed vnto Rome Antioch and other metropolitane churches is vttered by the word honorable revvard the same that dignitie in the next canon where be speaketh off the bishop off Ierusalem as it is also noted off Villerius where he confirmeth this signification off the word preeminence owt off Plato This may be further vnderstanded
the bishop bothe a Patriarche off Englande and a Patriarche off all Englande But because the D. will not suffer him selfe to be bounde with any cordes but off autoritie I will annexe his autoritie off whom he would seeme to haue borowed the greatest pillor off the Archbishop Musculus therfore after he had alledged the sentence off Ierome to Euagr. off equalitie off the Bishop off Rome and Eugubium c. concludeth thus Ierome vvhen he vvrote that did not thincke off the povver off the patriarches metropolitanes and primacie off the bishop off Rome but esteemed that vnto euery bishop did belonge the same care and povver in his ovne church Nowe to the Ans shiftes The first is owte off Ierome to Rusticus that euery ecclesiasticall order is subiecte vnto her gouernours wheroff I would gladly knowe what he concludeth If an Archbishop there is no apparance And the Ans being so bountifull in translating hathe here cut off the sentence in the mâ—ddle for what pourpose let other iudge my answer is therfore that he must proue by Ierome that there was an archbishop or that Ierome alowed off one before the sentence off Ierome can profite the Archbishop His seconde is that the testimonie off Ierome touching the equalitie off the bishops dooth not hurte the autoritie off the Archbishop considering that it is not denied but that euery bishop and minister are equall as towching the ministerie but not in order and policie which distinction althowghe I haue confuted and shewed also immediatly before that it is cleane againste the minde off Ierome yet here yt is to be obserued that as his argument owte off the place againste the Luciferanes for the Archbishop ys borowed of the Papistes so this shifte is Hardinges wherby he would auoide the force off the bishops answer Harding saith that tovvching honor dignitie and povver off bishoply order and office and off pristhood as good and as greate a bishop in that respecte is the one as the other and the bishops off thes litle tovvnes haue as greate a merite in regarde off any their vertues and as great povver concerning the order off priesthood as the bishop off Rome c. Yet tovvching povver and autoritie off regiment the Patriarches off Constantinople c. be aboue the bishops off other dioceses The bishop to this shifte answereth with Erasmus who saith that Ierome seemeth to matche all bishops together as if they vvere all equally the Apostells successors And further alledgeth an other place of Erasmus where owte off that place off Ierome he affirmeth plainlie that the bishop off Rome is aboue other bishops onely by riches If by riches onely then not by gouernement as Harding and the Ans affirme And where Harding vnder this word merite woulde hide him self as doth the Ans the bishop answereth by merite is mente vvithovvt all question preeminence which he D. alledgeth is vsed off Harding againste the bishop so yt ys Latomus an other Papistes shifte againste Bucer vnto whom Bucer answereth the Bishops vvere in euerie respecte at the firste equall one vvith an other as is before alledged And where otherwhere he pretendeth alowance of this Popishe distinction by the godlie writers the trwth is nothing so For as touching Caluin he hath openly depraued him He onely sheweth vpon 2. Cor. 10. vers 8. that there are diuers degrees off ministers and that one is aboue an other as an Apostel aboue a pastor which is confessed but that one pastor is aboue an other which is the question he hath not a worde That owt of Heza is onely a recital what was done not what he alowed coÌ„sidering that as hath bene shewed he vtterly condemneth those offices off Lorde bishop Archbish c. beside that in shewing that they came in proces off time after the Apostles he hangeth the D. cawse on the hedge which woulde haue this distinction in the time of the Apostles Nether hath Hemingius this distinctioÌ„ where the D. supposeth he onely saith that they are equall as towching spiritual regiment What they be in external he referreth to another place which when the D. bringeth he shall haue answer And whensoeuer yt cometh I thincke yt will ouerthrowe his before that there are some ministeries of the word and Sacramentes onely some for gouernement also for althowgh he allowe a gouernement vnto him he calleth bishop larger then to an other minister yet I thincke he can not shew that he shutteth owt thother owte off the externall gouernement Ad also that I haue shewed that euen when thes smokey offices came first in nether the Doctor nor pastor were seuered from gouernement off their seuerall congregation For that wherin the metropolitane then exceded the pastor was a preheminence or honour withowt autoritie so that euen then yt was an euill distinction off certein ministers off the word and sacramentes onely and certeine which did gouerne His third answer is owt off the B. off Salisbury which affirmeth that there were archbishops in Ieromes time But it is to obserued that that assertion off the bishop proceded off mistaking Ierome and some ouersight Which is cleare by that in an other place the bishop auowcheth owt off Ierome â—o Nepotian archbishops where there is no mention off Archbishop in any sort And althowghe the place which the bishop vouchethe be in the Epistle vnto Rusticus yet there is no mention off an Archbishop as I haue before declared This assertion therfore can not helpe the D. which hathe no better grounde His laste proofe is Erasmus who saith that metropolitans haue some dignitie aboue other bishops an other of Hardinges bucklers againste the bishop in the same place Where yt is manifest that Erasmus kepte his oulde coustome off carying fire in the one hande and water to quenche yt in the other and tempered the truthe with some leuaine off the corruption off those times therby to procure saftie vnto him and to his bookes whilest those which coulde not abide to looke vpon the truthe barefaced might at the leaste beare yt being muffled Yf the Ans will make his owtecries that I discredite the autor when I can not answer them beside that I discredite not moe then he I referre me vnto the conscience off all men whether yt be true which I haue saide And yet doo I not saie the tenthe parte off that which I coulde alledge written off him by men off excellent learning and zeale But let yt be considered how bothe corruptly contrary to the minde off Ierome and vnconstantly contrarie to that him selfe hath written off this place he hath blinded thes together For if it be trw that he hath said that Ieromes meaning is that the bishop off Rome differeth from other bishops onelie in riches then it is manifeste that in autoritie he differeth not from the bishop off Eugubium a small towne in the same prouince And where he saith that Ierome in making the bishop off a
base citie equall vvith the reste referreth that to the deacons vvhich in some places vvere preferred before the elders who seeth not but that speaking against the truthe he was so amazed that wordes comminge from him reason stickethe yet in his penne For what reason is there that Ierome shoulde therfore saie the bishop off Eugubium vvas equall vnto the Bishop off Rome notvvithstanding the bishop off Rome vvere his superior because the deacon vvas preferred in Rome before the elder What giue is here to ioyne thes together or what cawse was there that Ierome shoulde speake basely off the metropolitanes autoritie ouer the bishop because the deacon was preferred before the elder ys there anie reason that because the deacon did iniurie vnto the elder therfore Ierome shoulde speake sparingly of the metropolitane â—nd doo him iniurie also moreouer if this was the occasion why he spake so off a bishop because certeine deacons were preferred before the elders considering that that coustome was onely at Rome as Ierome him self declareth why should he make the bishop off Tanais a small towne in Egypte equall with the bishop off Alexandria the metropolitane citie there and the bishop Rhegium equall with the bishop off Constantinople For seing that mischeif off the preferment off Deacons before the elders was not in other places then in Rome there was no cause why he should speake thus off theÌ„ if that had bene the cause which Erasmus alledgeth Where he addeth vvhen Ierome saith the bishops and elders vvere equall that is to be vnderstanded that the elder vvas equall vvith the bishop in that they vvere bothe preferred vnto the deacon I meruaile the Ans is not ashamed to alledge that saying without all colour off truthe For I haue alledged diuers other places owte off Ierome where he speaking absolutely withoute respecte off any deacon affirmeth the bishop and elder all one in the beginning And what a ridiculous disputacion doth he make Ierome to hould For it is all one as if a maÌ„ after longe discourse to proue LondeÌ„ and Yorke equall in the ende shoulde conclude that Yorke were equall with London because they be bothe greater then Nuington Now let the reader iudge what vnworthie outcries the D. vseth bothe before and after off guilful dealing and shifting the place of Ierome therby to drowne the voice of the trwthe and whether I haue interpreted it according to his naturall meaning and as other godlie and learned haue doone and whether he contrarily to mainteine his firste saying hath vsed shiftes partely popishe ouerthrowinge the answers off those which haue trauailed againste popery aswell as mine partely fonde and childishe which he woulde beare owt with Erasmus autoritie withowt any weight off reason Likewise how he after dallieth in his longe translation and repetition of Ierome to no purpose That a doctor differeth from a pastor hathe bene shewed that he is inferior vnto him appeareth not onely because the Apostle placeth him after where he dothe moste exactly set downe the order off preaching ministers but also that the giftes required for that office are as hathe bene shewed lesse wherunto may be added the practise off the elder churches which estemed the doctor alwaies vnder him whom they called bishop or Pastor That the elder which gouerneth onely is inferior to the Doctor appeareth bothe in that his giftes be fewer and that the Apostel giueth more honour to him then to the elder That Deacons are vnder those elders for that their charge is to serue the tables onely and therfore but a part off the churche where the elders gouernemeÌ„t is ouer the whole Likewise for that the deacons charge being in thinges perteining to the nourishement off the body muste gyue place to that off the elders whose watche is ouer the sowles Al which the ministery off the Doctor onely excepted which is shut vp commoÌ„ly in the bishop is confirmed by continuall practise off the churche which vppon all occasions off speaking off this ministerie placeth the bishop before the elder and the elder before the deacon and precisely the foresaid Ignarius sheweth that the deacon is vnder the elder thelder vnder the bishop where that thelder which onely gouerneth and not onely he which teacheth is vnderstanded at which hole the D. would creepe out shall be after in proper place declared So appeareth that order in the ministery and diuersitie off degrees are defined off by the word of God and that euen in the Ecclesiasticall ministery ther is inequalitie althowgh all pastors be equall amongeste them selues and withall that order standeth withowt the archbishop or any other deuised ministery Chrysost browght by me is shamfully corrupted and the corruption opened in the former diuis his allegations there owght to be rulers in the church and order to punishe faultes so erksomly repeted are Idle yt being confessed and withall shewed that there is none off those but are doone withowt his ether bishop or Archbishop where hauing no reason he falleth to exhortacion that I would not stand in my conceite but thincke the gouernement off his bishop better then that laid forth by vs if he can compound with the word of God with the reformed churches Apostolical and present with the purest writers ould and newe I with my conceites as he speeaketh will be ready to hould tharchbishops stirup That he affirmeth the forme off gouernement wherin one is aboue all necessary in our commen wealthe althowgh I haue shewed that I greatly allow of it yet that yt is necessary and that the Prince and ParlemeÌ„t can not vpon occasion alter yt especially without breache off the lawe off God which onely maketh the necessitie vve speake of ys an vntrwth apparant to all that haue euer tasted off holy or humane letters And althowghe yt semeth he hath couenanted vvith him self to speake all he supposeth may please yet his knowledge answering not his wâ—ll he is found here to abridge the authoritie off the ciuile powre which he thowght to haue stretched owt and to binde it to that which the lord lefte at the libertie theroff Where he saithe the externall gouernement off the church vnder a Christian magistrat muste be according to the kinde and forme of gouernement vsed in the comon wealth it partly hath aÌ„d further God willing shall appeare that the gouernemeÌ„t of the church debated is certein by the vvord off God and vnchangeable As for his bolt so soone shot and with so smal drafte of reason yt is brokeÌ„ with the vvinde off his owne mouth For where he maketh the externall gouernement throwghe owte his whole booke at the pleasure of the Prince which is his principall hould here he teacheth that yt is not in the princes powre onles she will ether put of or deuide her crowne vvith others to put downe the archbishop for the externall gouernement off the church saith he muste be according to the kinde and forme off gouernement off the comon wealth
the lord hath giuen The Prince with his power the minister with his conforte and instruction the priuate man with the wealthe God hath blessed him withe at the least with his praier the communion off sainctes and fellowfeeling in the members off one bodie requiring this Hereoff we haue example in Aurelius which saith he had care off all churches Bouins a Popishe friar or Monke I well remembre not whether tawght in this point in the same schole with the D. in esteming that care off churches implied rule least the bishop off Rome should be hurte by that speache expoundeth all churches all in Affricke Our D. h alledging this place because in taking care in his sence for rule with authoritie he should in trauailing with the Archbishop haue browght vs forth a Pope in steede off all churches putteth many churches so that he wil neuer want for if his places be to streite for his Archbishops measure he settethe them vpon the teinter hookes if to wide he laiethe them in water and shrinkethe them But what shoulde I stand in confuting this seing yt is so farr off that care prouethe rule and dominion that it is sene not onely in one equall ouer an other but euen in seruantes ouer their masters As for that that is said Chrysostomes care restreined here to certeine places can not be vnderstanded off suche a generall care as comprehendeth all churches I answer that the care off his owne churche being properly commended vnto him it is mete that as the churches next doo most affecte his bettering it commonly yf they be good making yt worse if they be nawght so in that generall care ouer the rest ther should be suche dispensation as to haue a greater care ouer those then ouer the rest as we see in wise Princes more carefull off the borderers then off those further remoued from them In which degre yt is not vnproperlie spoken that he had the care off suche churches rather then off all His foure notes owt off Theodoret depend vpon these wodes the same care so that yf yt fall owt that Chrysostome had not the same rule ouer Thracia Asia c. which he had ouer Constantinople then those wordes spoken off the gouernement he had in that citie are idle to proue the same in Thracia c. But first the D. crieth owt of corruption crafte and either ignorance or malice good wordes Maister D. I pray yow For ignorance yt is no greate matter I am content yow say that I borowed two greeke wordes off my neighbours But why corruption c did I not set downe wordes sufficient to confute your vntrew dealing which in stede of care put downe rule was I bownd to set downe more in greke then yow surmised in Englishe yea could I haue set downe the worde yow require with any sence vnto the reader vnles I had set downe as yow now the whole story and so haue giuen your cause greater coulour then your selfe knew of then I helpe yow diuerse times with argumentes which yow make much of but will yow binde me to do so alwaies I haue more coulour to crie out of yow which to proue Chrysostome gouernour of these places voluntarily cite Socrates trippinglie vvinding vp in thes wordes et caetera vvhich is your ruine and which manifestly confuteth the largenes yow suppose off the bishop off Consiantinoples metropolitaneship Therfore seing this bitternes must be vented yow at least should haue waited some better opportunitie now let vs see vvhether these wordes he had the same care ouer Thracia c that he had ouer the churche off Constantinople vvill intitle Chrisostome lawfully to as great authoritie ouer one as ouer the other For the discussing vvheroff I must by thy good leaue gentle reader fetche this matter somewhat higher The Councell off Nice bounding and butting the metropolitaneships decreed that the bishop of Constantinople vvhich it calleth the greate citie should be metropolitane ouer Thracia certeine other ouer Pontus others ouer Asia to the nombre off ten metropolitaneships This order was confirmed by other councels off Constantinople and Ephesus as they are obserued and continued vntill the councell off Calcedon vvhich moste confusedly and disorderedly throwghe extreme Ambition off the bishop off Constantinople drowned almoste all these ten in his one onlie sea Where also yt was ordeined by the same Councell of Nice that the Metropolitanes shoulde be off equall power and not one vnder an other this Councel made one Metropolitane ouer a nombre Where further it was ordeined by diuerse Councells as hath partely before and partely may appeare by c Theodoret that the Metropolitane off euerye Prouince shoulde be chosen by the bishops theroff this Councell maketh the bishop of Constantinople to haue the appointement off all metropolitaneships within the compas alledged by the D. Moreouer where the same Nicene Councell with sundrie others ordeined that the bishops of the Prouince at the least three should be at the ordinacion off euerie bishop this Councell giue the yt in the bishops off the Barbarians meaning as I suppose Scithians vnto him off Constantinople Now if the D. will make Chrysostome accessary vnto this famous robberie if giltie off all this confusion and disorder off the breache off so many Canons off the Nicene and other Councels and finally if he will make him a Pope he dothe him that iniurie which I would be lothe For where vnto me alledging that if he vvere Archbishop off all thes churches he vvas off moe then euer the Pope in his greatest pride he answereth that I am greatly deceiued for that Phocas the Emperour made all these churches and all other subiecte to the Pope and appointed him head off all I answere that he is greatly deceiued Considering that the Empire being deuided into the east and weast Empire more then 250. yeares before Phocas made Boniface the third Pope Phocas coulde not hauing his Empire for the most part in the easte where the churches were most ruined make all or halfe the churches subiecte vnto Boniface So that yt ys manifest that Chrysostome by his saying metropolitane off all Asia and a good parte off Europe must needes haue moe vnder him then Pope Boniface What the Pope claimed is nothing to that I set downe which spake precisely off that he was and not off that he claimed to be Therfore if he build vpon Chrysostomes supposed metropolitaneship he doth manifestly allow a larger circuite vnto a bishop then euer any Pope had Yf I would haue sought to haue discredited Chrysostome I might haue answered that yt was no meruaile thowghe he exercised suche dominion considering that bothe Socrates and Camerarius after him which commende diuerse vertues off his affirme him to haue bene a proud man But considering that him selfe opposeth the Emperours large dominion to a bishops charge in one cytie I chose that sence which I setdowne Neither are there any wordes either in Theodoret or the Centuries
to admonishe those to whom the election off the ministers belongeth to tell them what maner a one owght to be chosen if that be not yet ys not this necessary to commend the election of the minister of the worde to the praiers of those whiche are presente at the election And where as he saithe that yt being extraordinary is not off necessitie to be followed he should haue saide that being extraordinary yt owght not to be followed Now vvhen he graunteth them to be suche as may be vsed althowghe not necessaryly he concludeth against him selfe that they are not extraordinary for as those thinges whiche are ordinarie in the worde off God owght to be followed so those thinges that are extraordinary are by no meanes of vs withowt an extraordinary spirite to be followed thinges whiche may be doone or lefte vndoone are nether ordinary nor extraordinari but haue a meane nature betweene bothe But as it is in in prouerbe the egle ketcheth no flies Maister D. hathe greater matters in hande then thes and yet to keepe the proprietie of speche profiteth muche to the keping off the pure nes of doctrine But the wordes off maister Caluine saithe he are plaine So they are in deede plaine to shewe your great vntreuth and plaine to shewe that which I contende for that is that althowghe some thinges are not to be followed yet other some thinges in this election are and owghte to serue for the direction off the election off the ministers nowe And because you shall not abuse the reader nether with the deniall off thinges to be so which are manifest nor guilfull escapes wherwithe yow goe aboughte to defeate the autorities which I alledge although yt be muche against my will to lenghthen my booke with translating so thicke and three folde of other mens sentences into mine yet being driuen to yt I had rather be somewhat troublesome to the reader then that yowr vnhonest practises shoulde not appeare to all that will not willingly close there eyes against the truthe But before I cum to maister Caluine I will set downe Cyprians wordes which are there commended by maister Caluin Cyprian therfore speaking off the election of a Minister writethe amongest other thinges thus God commandeth that the preyst shoulde be placed before the face off the vvhole congregation off the Ievves that is to say he dothe teache and shevve that the ordeininges off the ministers ovvghte not to be made but vvithe the knovvledge of the people standing by vvherby they being presente either theyr faultes shoulde be discouered or their vertues commended and so it may be a iuste and a lavvfull ordination vvhich is by the voyces and iudgemētes of all examined The vvhiche after vvard according to the dyuine mastershippe or authoritie is obserued in the Actes off the Apostels vvhere Peter speaketh vnto the people off ordeining a bishop into Iudas place Off which place fyrst yt appeareth that the people not onely had but oughte to haue to doo in the appointing off there minister and that not by any custome or decree off men but by the eternall worde off God bothe in the olde and newe Testament Also that theyr right consisteth bothe in examining the life off him which is to be chosen and in the approbation off him yff they like off him or refusall iff they like him not which Cyprian proueth bothe by the 20. off the numbers by this place and the sixte off the actes which he also citeth Now I come to maister Caluin After he hathe in the 13. section shewed that the election off the Apostell into Iudas place is no certaine rule for our elections he sheweth further whearin yt is no rule namely for that the election there was committed to lotte the vocation off an Apostell so requiring that by the iudgement off the lotte as yt were by Gods owne mowthe a successour might be appointed in steed off Iudas But in the 14. section he sheweth the lorde so approuethe off the iudgment off men vvhich he after expoundeth the churche that euen in the Apostels appointement vvhich haue this prerogatiue that they shoulde be created immediatly from God the iudgment off the churche shoulde not be passed by and to that endecitethe the 13. off the actes and 2. verse and this place off the first off the actes and 23. verse and off those places gathereth a perpetuall document to establishe the discipline and order off the churche in elections for euer Whearby appeareth that maister Caluins minde is not as the doctor woulde make vs beleue that ther can nothing be gathered out off this place perteining to our elections Afterward confuting them which vppon the places off Timothy and Titus gooe abowte to proue that the election off the ministers is in the Bishopps powre he saithe thus VVel therfore sayd CyPrian vvhyle he contendeth that yt commeth off the authoritie off god that the minister shoulde be chosen the people being presente in the eies off all and shoulde be by the cōmon iudgment and testimonie approued vvorthy and fitt And forth with reciting Cyprians vvordes before alledged and quoting this place off the Actes he concludeth in this sorte vvee haue therfore saith he that this is the lavvfull vocation by the vvorde off God vvhere those vvhich are chosen are appointed by the consent and approbation off the people Here againe yt is manifest that Maister Caluine vseth this place off the Actes to proue that the election owghte not to be withowte the approbation and consent off the people Furthermore speaking against the popishe election for that in yt all is in the pleasure off the bishoppe He citeth Leo and Cyprian which proue that by the worde off God the church owghte to haue her interest in the election off the minister and many Synodes which dooe severely prohibite suche elections and if they be made commaund that they shoulde be off none effect Then concludeth yff thes thinges be trvve there is this day in poperie no canonicall election nether by Godes nor by any ecclesiasticall lavve And if there vvere nothing els hovve can they excuse them selues that they haue spoiled the churche off her righte And so goeth forthe with confuting off the same reasons off the Papistes which are afterwardes alleadged off the doctor This may be sufficiente to let the reader vnderstande howe the Ans woulde shamefully abuse him with the authorytie off M. Caluin Wherin I doe not forget that in going abowte to proue that this place off the Actes hathe place in diuers pointes in the ordinary election I haue together with those places belonginge to the examinatiō pressed also those which touche the election yt selffe Which I did pourposely that I myghte not be compelled to set downe thes places againe a litell after Where yt beinge alleged for the election which is here alledged for the examination receiueth the same answere off the S. which this doothe Vnto my reason in the second Diuision that if an
the Epistell againste the circunstance off the place he alledgeth that the moste off the preceptes conteined in that epistell doo properly perteine vnto Timothe as he is a bishop Which is vntrwe especially in that sense he taketh a bishop which the Apostels neuer knewe off for there shal be scarse two sentences found in the whole epistle which agree not to euery pastor And set aside those whiche cōcerne teachinge there are very fewe not commen with him vnto an elder which onely gouerneth Beside diuers belonging vnto the whole church as well as vnto him and some rather to other partes off the church then vnto him yet iff the moste shoulde properly belonge vnto him howe can he proue that the sentence off not layinge one off handes rashly doth onele belonge vnto him he hath cyted many to proue that Saint Paule saith yt doth belonge vnto the bishop which is not denied but that yt doth onely belonge by this place off Saint Paule which is denied he hath not one Nay diuers off his authors heere alledged haue the contrarie off that he pretendeth to proue by them For Bull. I haue saide Calu. denyinge that ether Paule or Timothe did any thinge in elections withowt the consent off the church towching the bare ceremonie off layinge on the handes he dowteth whether yt were doone by one or many And Ierome althowgh he saie that the ordinacion belonged to the bishop yet I haue shewed in the former booke that he cōfesseth that that was by no order of God or rule of the Apostles by which he confesseth that the bishopps were equall vnto the reste of the elders but onely by constitutiō off men Therfore he is vntrwely cited to confirme that by this place off the Apostell the bishoppe hath ether the election or ordination vnto him selffe As for Chrysostome and Oecumenius vnto whome is added Beza pag 226. Where this is repeted I answer at ones that yt semeth violent that the Apostle vsinge the worde eldershipe shoulde shutte forth those which were properly called elders And where I alledged pag. 226. that Chrisostome ment not by those wordes to put a distinctiō betwene elders by age and office I was deceiued The occasion was because he doth so in the same epistle where he had no more cause then heere and not lokinge vppon the the place when I wrote I tooke one for another But yt is to be noted that their interpretation is directly againste the D. for Chrysostome affirmeth that the Bishoppes off Ephesus which appeare to haue bene diuers in the Actes did lay on their handes and Beza that all those vvhich had the mynistrie off the vvorde are meant by the vvord presbitery So that by their iudgement one onely did not ordeine nor lay on handes both which the D. affirmeth As for the other sentence off Chrysostome with Theophilacte althowgh Paule lefte vnto Tite to doe those thinges which were ioined with most honour yt foloweth not that he lefte them to be doone otherwise then himselfe did them But he doth to much abuse his reader which would make hym beleue that he drewe this from the godly writers which he hath from professed enemies off the trwth For thes are the reasons off Pighius which to proue that the bishopp onely should choose and not the church alledged thes twoo places off Tite and Timothe which the Answerer hath Thus the firste reason off the D. with all the authorities wherwith he hath walled yt is gone to the ground for as for Ambrose testimonie yt maketh nether whot nor kolde no man dowteth but that Timothe owght to be circumspecte in ordeininge ministers The second reason is that iff the election off a bishop had off necessytie perteined vnto the people thē S. Paul would not haue writtē to Timothe of yt but vnto the churches as well as vnto him As though there were not many thinges in those epistles necessay for the churches to doo or as though they inscribed vnto Titus and Timothe are not written for the instruction of the whole churche euen in that very sentence off imposition off handes For when Saint Paule tawght that Timothe mighte not lay on his handes rashly he tawght the whole churches that they shoulde not chuse any rashely What is I besech yow in Saint Lukes two bookes dedicated vnto Theopilus which doth not aswell perteine vnto all sortes off men in the church as vnto him That the holy ghoste therfore intituleth his bookes sometimes vnto particular persons was not that the Doctrine conteined in them shoulde more perteine vnto them then vnto others but ether because he woulde lifte vpp their heade aboue the reste or for some other particuler circumstance .. And in Maister Caluines iudgement they were both written rather for instruction off other in the church then for Timothe and Titus For there beinge great resistance made vnto those younge men off diuers in the churches off Ephesus and Crete the Apostle to supporte them againste their aduersaries and to gird them with more authoritie so intituled their epistles that they mighte knowe that those thinges they did ād tawght they nether did nor taught of them selues but by his cōmaundement As therfore all thinges conteined in thes Epistles were to be knowen off Timothe and Titus so were they all to be knowen off euery one in those churches And as there are thinges in them the exercise wheroff concerned Timothe and Titus onely so there are other the exercise wheroff did at no hand apperteine to any off them As for the circumstance off the place which he saieth is against my replie he sheweth none But there is a manifest circūstance againste him which the Apostle by and by addeth kepe they selfe pure and communicate not vvith the faultes off other as iff he should saie althowghe thow canste not hinder the ordeining off insufficient officers of the church yet kepe they selfe pure Moreouer if this writing vnto Timothe alone that he should laie handes off none rashely shoulde giue him alone authoritie to ordeine and electe pastors then yt should followe that not onely the church and elders off Ephesus but the Bishopes which were there together with Timothe should haue bene shutte owte which iff the D. dare not saie beside that this holde is gone he muste recante the sole election and ordination by Timothe Yow maie easely put me owte off dowbte off that which I neuer dowbted and which I haue somewhere confessed that by the ceremonie off layinge on off handes the whole forme off orderinge is vnderstanded But off that yow shoulde proue that in that place off Saint Paule it is so vnderstanded althowghe yt is not that which can hurte our cause yow bringe not so much as maie induce vnto any the leaste suspiciō Your reason that he did electe because he did appoincte is to symple For albeit to chuse be to appointe yet euery one which appointeth chooseth not no more then yt followeth that because euery man liueth
Euangelists more to these then to those Nowe therefore forsomuch as yt ys manifest by the subscription of S. Pauls epistels that he writing did the office of an Apostle it is also cleare that both S. Mathew and Iohn being Apostels in writing the storie off the Gospell did the same and that the committing off the Gospell to writing was not the proper difference off any speciall office but according to thoccasions offered and mouing of the holy spirit off God commen to other functions off that time And as the Pastors off our time which both preach and write differ not in ministerie from those which preach onely and are oftentimes more excellent pastors then they so the wâ—sting off Saint Iohn and Mathew being Apostels off Saint Lucke and Marck Euangelistes might paraduenture make them more excellent Apostels or Euangelistes then those which wrote not but to chaunge their ministerie it could not Last off all off this answer followeth thabsurditie before noted that one man at the same time should be first and second before and behinde himselfe That an Euangelist at one time may be a bishop at an other maketh litle for the D. considering that we shewe that Timothe was euen then at Ephesus an Euangelist when he supposeth hym to haue bene bishop Howbeit it is vnlike that they which were ordeined Euangelistes and set in higher degree aboue the Pastor were without their fault thrust downe vnto the order of Bishops Men nowe a daies peraduenture may chuse to an office off charge one whom vppon better triall as not altogether sufficient they may cause to rise out off his chaire and sit in a lower place but in the Apostels ordinatioÌ„ especially of Timo. in whom they were directed by the voice off God it could by no meanes comme to passe This being vntrue in the Euangelists cast down to thoffice off bishops ys yet more vntollerable in the Apostels For they are by this meanes not let but cast headlong downe from the highest staier in the ministerie vnto the lowest almost yea by the D. saying which maketh the Pastor and the Doctor all one euen vnto the lowest But it can not be that they which were appointed by the voice off Christe immediatly to the Apostelship can ether off theyr owne or any other autoritie in yearth be put from that ministerie And therefore our men doo substantially dispute against the Papistes which would haue Peter bishop of Rome for that being ordeined an Apostel he could not betake him vnto thoffice off a bishop which the Answ with diuers other groundes would to mainteine his phantasies gladly shake The reason pretended out off Zuing. for that they abode in one place yf it be his is vnsufficient For to omit that it is easy to shew that Iames immediatly after he was ordeined to the Apostelship at thascension off our Sauiour exercised his charge in one place namely Ierusalem during his whole life whereby should follow that he was neuer any Apostell and to let passe that Eusebius citeth out off Clement that all the Apostels remained by the space off xij yeares in Ierusalem after our Sauiour Christes ascension whereby they all should be bishops during that time to say nothing also off Saint Paule which teaching at Rome and there looking to end his life eueÌ„ from thence writeth him self an Apostle aÌ„d not a bishop I say to let all this passe which notwithstaÌ„ding casteth downe this opinioÌ„ the Ans must know that thabiding long in one place doth not make a bishop differ froÌ„ an Apostel but the necessitie and bond to abide in one place by reason of his particular function Which when it nether can be shewed off any Apostel and is as hath bene shewed directly contrary to his function yt can not be that the abode in one place should proue a chaunge off the Apostelship into the function off a bishop Whereby is also answered the last reason off the D. that Tim. was bishop becawse he retourning to Ephesus died there For yf that were graunted what reason is there that whereas by the biscours off the scriptures before alledged it appeareth Timothe tawght in diuers churches he should be saide bishop off Ephesus becawse that was the last church he instructed why not off the first or second as well as off the last it is all one as yf a man being a straunger in diuers places should be saide to be Cytisen of that were he laieth his bones Wherein the D. againe approcheth vnto the absurditie off the Papistes which against that the Protestantes alledge that Peter is saide off writers as well bishop off Alexandria and Antioche as off Rome answer that the differeÌ„ce is great because he died at Rome Nether helpeth it him any thing which he alledgeth in an other place out of Cal. that Tychicus was sent to supplie Timothies absence For beside that the Apostle doth not goe so far and whatsoeuer can be saide in that point is coniecturall Calu. wordes do not necessarily enforce a deputie considering that absence may after a sort be supplied by a successour And if beside the first ordination off Timoth. vnto the function off an Euangelist which is vnlimited we will consider the manner off his embassage towardes the Ephes there can nothing les be gathered then this that Timothe was off Saint Paul instituted bishop off Ephesus whereby he should need a deputy For in that he sent him desyring him to tary for him there he declareth that he was not sent to remaine alwaies but for a tyme But if the Answ take exception that I haue found out this newe translation to make the place serue for my turne fyrst I trust that those which haue still in the greek will easly graunt that the word will bear this sense then it hath some confirmacion of that which Saint Paul writeth off diligence to be vsed in his caling there vntill his coÌ„ming Which word vntill although not alwaies yet for the most part maketh an eÌ„d of that whereunto it is applied Last off all it appeareth by Augustin which vseth this translation that yt was off auncient tyme receiued which testimonie off antiquitie cast in when the skoles are euen on both sides may cary it away Thus I leaue it to the Iudgement off the indifferent reader what truth it hath that the Answ affirmeth of Timothes being bishop at Ephesus I returne back to the generall treatise off the Euangelist Where I shew that if there vvere Euangelistes yet the bishops could not ordein theÌ„ being their inferiors he answereth that yt can not be proued that an Euangelist is of higher degree theÌ„ a bishop Yf O. Paules autoritie be not sufficient which setting the ministries off the word so precisely in order preferreth the Euangelist and Prophet vnto the Pastor or bishop nor the Iudgement off writers whereoff although some make an Euangelist next in honor vnto an Apostle some the Prophet yet both sortes prefer the
about An. 266. had no authoritie but was a poore Bishop vnder persequnting Emperours And if the Emperours had been Christian then as they were heathen yet how cometh yt to passe he doth not vnderstand that in going about to make men belieue that the Bishop off Rome at that tyme had authoritye to limite dioceses parishes c. in the church off God he setteth vpp a Pope and armeth him with that authoritie which he neuer came vnto foure hundreth yeares after Finally if this Monke were off any credite he is directly against him euen in this cawse For off the wordes before alledged yt is cleare that he appointed vnto euery elder a seuerall parish vvherin he should keepe him selfe which is against the pluralitie off benefices that he so greatly striueth for He asketh where it appeareth that the scripture deuided nationall churches into congregations and parishes I answer that off that the scripture willeth elders to be chosen for euery competent congregation and particular bodie off church and also that thes assemblies as all other thinges in the church should be with the greatest conuenience so that as Ierusalem had commendation in hauing her building knit closely together euen so the church as much as may be conueniently should haue her partes not onely in a spirituall bond off charitie but in neighbourhood of dwellinges well trussed one with an other yt is apparant that although the scriture doth not mention parishes nor precisely define off the compasse yet yt giueth the rule wherby they are squared owt For when a parish well bounded is nothing els but a nomber of those families which dwelling neere together may haue a commodious resort and the assemblies off the churches owght so to be ranged as they may be neerest the place off their spirituall refection yt followeth that the scripture hathe after a sort gyuen the churches tarriers and that a parish well bounded for the spirituall intercommuning hath testimonie owt off the word off God. Where he asketh proofe off this that dioces is taken for a parish yt appeareth first that in the primitiue church bishops in steed that they are now off such a dioces were then of a parish afterward when they began to hooke into their possession moe churches then they were able to feed they were called bishoppes off dioceses ▪ yet the name parish was not quite worne owt but indifferently vsed for a dioces as appeareth by the councell of Ancyran where one translation hauing dioces thother hath parish And yt shall better appear in the 8. Tract that at the first there were dioceses off so narrow compas that diuers parishes in England may appear to be off greater circuit then they That the place off buriall mentioned off Euseb wat in the field may as I saied be gathered off the vse off the church which I haue noted in an other place That the churches of Christ had nether thē nor in the time that the D. imagineth any churchyardes ys manifest considering that then the temples wherunto the churchyardes were annexed were possessed off idolaters The answer to the incommodities off buriall in churchiardes that by that reason churches and other thinges must necessarily be remoued is a begging off that in question and otherwise insufficient For yt is in demaund wether it be conuenient and if it had been yet being not necessary it owght for such abuses to be taken away And beside the incommodities assigned it was as may appeare taken of the Papistes from the superstition off the heathen For Lycurgus made this law that men should burye in cyties and round about the temples Now residence being necessary and that principally for preaching off the word it appeareth how disordered a power yt is off the bishop off whose licence the pastor both chosen and ordeined must depend in a thing precisely commaunded to him by the Lord and for omitting wherof the thunderbolt of Gods course is from heauē throwen vpon him Therfore the chapter intitled Off licences to preach shall be heere in a word or two dispatched First the D. charged with false dealing in that he surmiseth of the Ad. as if one might preach withowt their approbation to whom yt apperteineth answereth their meaning is plaine belike he hath it by reuelation for in their wordes there is not a title sounding thar waies But he saith yt was their owne case which put from preaching would haue preached against the bishops will. Where leauing that to those that may haue knowledge therof I answer that he towcheth not the matter For both they speake ād my reply was of those which ordeined to preach the gospell are sent to their charges not able to doo their duties withowt further licence as if a man charged to doo a thing should be bound hand and foot of him that charged hym and layed at his mercy whether he wil lose him Wherunto he answeretth not a word Thirdly he laieth to my charge that I had not answered towching that the Adm. would haue preached against the bishops will a word wheroff is not found but onely in his latter book then which what greater dotage can there be as yf there could be default off answer whera there was no such thing obiected In that I saied vvithovvt their approbation to vvhom yt apperteineth he excepteth that there is an equiuocation yt being not set downe by whom the election should be made Where beside that yt was apparant before by a whole treatise what we think in that behalf and owt of place to speake off it heere his exception is too childish For to whomsoeuer thelection doth appertein this case remaineth the same whether it be vnlawfull to ordein one to preach the word and yet to keepe it still in his power whether he shall doo yt or no. Off this sort is that he saith I suppose no man may preach which hath not certein charge and onely in yt Wheroff although I make not heere one word off mention yet howsoeuer yt be taken this case remaineth one Where I shewed that the bishop could not alledge for defense that he vvhom he sendeth prisoner to his church is ether heritik or schismatick or suspected for that he ovvght not then to haue admitted hym vnto that ministery he vseth open falsehood For he saith I suppose that hypocrites schismatikes c. may be knowē forthwith or suspected may be by and by remoued Wheras first I haue not a word off Hypocrites and haue before manifestly tawght the contrary off that he heere forgeth that the church can not procede against Hypocrites that is those whose sinnes are not discouered and that God onely hath reserued their iudgement vnto him self Then where I shewe that those which are to be admitted to the ministery owgt to be free from suspicion off heresy or schisme the D. answereth as if I had saied that those which haue already bene in the ministery were vpon suspicion off heresy to be desposed Which what
officers bringe singular fruict vnto the commeÌ„ wealth For whilest they conquere by the word riote adultry couetousnes pride idlenes c. wherby diseases beggery translations off inheritance from the right heires needles dearthes seditions rebellions whereoff euery one is an engin able to pull downe the commen wealth they may be well called the horse and chariot of the coÌ„men wealth But yet as the pastors can not therfore be saied officers of the commeÌ„ wealth no more can the magistrate which by vertwe of his ciuill office giueth singular assistance vnto the churche be called properly the churche officer Yf as I see it like some to call magistrates a kind of officers in the churche because they being members by publike calling procure the quiet theroff they which are disposed may so speak I will not striue But why I esteme the title off head of the church not to agree vnto any simple creature etherin heauen or earth I haue shewed my reasons let the church Iudge The questioÌ„ is not whether the name of Archbishop is but whether it owght to be coÌ„tinued and if the coÌ„tinuance of it in our church draw such credit the putting downe of it in all other churches throwghowt ChristeÌ„dome must needes bring great preiudice But it is lawfull therin is the question Which althowgh he hath ofteÌ„ affirmed yet we are come to an end of the decisioÌ„ of this question by the scriptures and no word browght to confirme it Wherin ether he is litle beholding to his cawse which will minister him nothing to say or his cawse to him which leaueth it thus destitute For althowgh the reasons against yt should be insufficieÌ„t yet if he would haue this title continew in the church he should haue by shewing the lawfullnes of it owt of the word both perswaded those which haue an euill opinion of it and confirmed them which wauer For the sixt diuis let the Iudgement be the readers Before I come vnto the 7. I will for the cause alledged in the beginning off this treatise take in here the residue off the 20. off S. Math. Yowr transâ—ation the kinges off the Gentils wherby yow would prone that he putteth not a difference betwene the cyuil and ecclesiasticall power is faulty as that which withowt necessity goeth from the proper signification off the word For it signifieth naturally not the Gentils but symply any nation in which signification yt is taken oft in the ould and new testament and not onely when the Israelites are ioyned together with other nations but euen when the holy gost speaketh of the Iewes a part he calleth them by the same word here vsed Therfore it appeareth that there is nether any such meaning of the EuaÌ„gelistes and if there were yet he gaineth nothing For it is easy to answer that he therfore maketh mention off the Princes off the Gentils forasmuch as there was no King nor soueraigne ciuill principality amongest the Iewes Wheruppon our Sauiour was coÌ„pelled to take example off princely autority from the Gentils And if there were any small fragments of cyuill gouernement in the Iewes handes yt was the high priestes and other ecclesiasticall persons Which beside that yt was bastard and degenerate from the institution off God it was both more ambitiously sowght as may appeare by the ecclesiasticall stories and more tyranically administred as appeareth in scriptures then any the most disordered gouernement amongest the Heathen So that if our Sauiour would haue set forth a patron off ambition and tyranny in gouernment he needed not haue sowght it amongest the Gentils when he had it at home Yt may be saied further that he taking his example off the cyuill dominion off the Gentills would therby pull owt off the peoples heades that fond opinion amongest them and the rest off Iewes that they at the comming off the Messias should be Emperours off all the world and all the Gentills be their subiectes Especially considering this petition off the sonnes off Zebedy was grounded off that idlephansie And if neede required it were not hard to bring examples off diuers Kinges and principall magistrates amongest the Gentils which both came vnto their gouernement modestly and vsed yt with all equitie and commoditie off the subiectes as off the contrary part diuers off the Kinges amongest the Iewes whose entry hath not bene so honest nor gouernement so easy vpon which consyderations it may appeare that there was an other reason off making mention of the Gentils Math. 6. then in this place Last off all there is nothing answered to the example off our Sauiour Christ which doth manifestly ouethrow the D. interpretatioÌ„ For wheÌ„ as it is certeine that examples are browght to explane the rules which goe before and in the example our Sauiour Christ opposeth mynistring vnto others to this to be ministred vnto by others it must needes follow that the place which went before must be vnderstanded simply of domynion and not tyrannicall domynion for if the example had bene sitting vnto M. D. meaning he should haue saied as I came not tirannically to be ministred vnto or ambitiously to desyre it but modestly to rule The distinction also of the Magistrate and off the minister wherin the weight of this cawse lieth is not towched This diuision off domynion is altogether idle for it is plaine that when I say the cyuill Magistrate is seuered by bearing domynion from the ecclesiasticall person I ment lawfull and when as I deny that the ecclesiasticall person can exercise any domynion at all what place is there left to this diuision for what dominion soeuer he had proued to haue bene lawfull for an ecclesiasticall person had bene suffycient ouerthrow of that I set downe And as the diuision is superfluous so yt is vnskilfull For the two first partes the rule with oppression and the rule described 1. Sam. 8. be all one and the last member comprehendeth all that goe before And so it is not onely no good diuision but no diuision aâ— all Nether is he any happier in applying off it for where my second proposition was that the ecclesiasticall person is seuered from the cyuill by bearing domynion he saith that is true in the two fyrste significations Wherby muste follow that ether yt is lawfull for the cyuill magistrate to rule with oppression or els for the Bishop For if it be lawfull for nether of them theÌ„ one is not seuered from the other in those kindes off domynion The last section off the 62. page c. perteining altogether vnto the question off Bishopes bearing cyuill offices I will put ouer vnto the proper place Here the question is onely what belongeth to the mynister in respect off his ecclesiasticall ministery The autoritie off man in Gods cawse weigheth no further then weight is giuen by reason Therfore yow should not preiudice the exposition of this place by Bucers Iudgement especially coÌ„sidering it hath counterpois of other as learned Howbeit although
or not at the churches vvill Moreouer if he say that it is necessarie ād commaunded a◠some tyme and not at others vvhat a miserable case is the churche in that hath no certein addresse owt of the word vvhen that necessitie and commaundement beginneth and when it endeth vvhen this office is in season vvhen owt of season Lastly forasmuch as S. Paul speaketh of offices thē in the chuch not of those vvhich came after as the Ans him self is forced to confesse the Archbishops office must needes haue bene in the Apostles tyme Which if it be true those times being as the Answ hath borne vs in hand so vnlike ours the persons in the church then off so different dispositions from those now the place also the gospell being thē in the East partes where now it is in the West it must needes follow that this monely office off the archbishop which ebbeth and floweth being fit for the Apostles times is by all likelihood vnfit for ours His distinction vnto the second proposition is that an Archbishop in respect off the ministerie off the word and Sacramētes is necessarie alwaies but not in respect of policie and gouernemēt Which is asmuch to say as an archbishop vvhen he is an archbishop is alwaies necessarie for the church For when he hath not the owtward gouernement then by yowr owne rule he is no archbishop then which speach what can be more absurd And of this answer followeth that there is a time vvhen the Pastors haue nothing to doo vvith the externall policie and gouernment off the church but onely to administer the word and Sacramentes and then the church shal be an heape and not a bodie a confused multitude not an orderly societie Yet in the next section he gyueth the gouernement off the church and order vnto the bishops and archbishops and will haue them part the stake off the Apostles autoritie vvhich they had in the church And as this answer is absurd so yt ys contrarie to that he hath set downe in his former booke that not onely the office off the Archbishop is necessarie but most necessarie I saied before that the Apostle speaketh to the Ephes off mynisteries vvhich haue to doo vvith preaching the vvord but neuer added as yow in yowr Doctors booke and here and not those which haue to doo with order and discipline Therfore I had nothing forgotten my self if be would haue vnderstanded that which is plaine to all the world for thes two may well stand together the Apostle spake there onely off functions conuersant in the vvord and the Lord spake of those functiōs vvhich Preach the vvord and administer the gouernement for the word onely doth not seclude gouernemēt from those ministries but shutreth owt all ministeries not preaching as that off the Elder and Deacon And yt is one thing to say the Lord spake there onely off preaching mynisteries an other to say he spake there of ministries onely preaching which me thincketh yow could not be ignorāt of Therfore Saint Paul reckening vp the ministeries there which haue together with the preaching of the word the administration off gouernement and making no mention off the Archbishop supposed to haue both yt followeth that yow are yet behinde with yowr answer I haue not confuted my shadow but yowr fond phantasie For if S. Paul speake in that place of those that haue the ministerie off the word and Sacramentes onely and not off those which haue to doo with the order of discipline yt followeth that Apostles haue nothing to doo with order and discipline forsomuch as they are amongest those which S. Paul there speaketh of If this cogitacion neuer entred into yowr head how cometh it to passe that yt ys found in yowr papers Lastly yow say the administration off discipline and gouernement in the Apostles is fallen vpon the Archbishops and bishops the ouerthrow off my whole assertion Yf a man will belieue yow speaking he may otherwise here is nothing but I saied yt And surely yt must be a very simple hould that is cast downe with this paper shot of bare affirmatiō but if yow will weigh a litle what yow say yow shall see that if there be any bullet at al in this yowr saying yt is charged wholy vppon yowr self For before yow haue saied once or twise that the office and autoritie off an Archbishop was in the Apostles tymes Which if yt be true how doth the Archbishop receiue his auauritie off order and gouernement by their death for hauing yt before he cannot receiue yt by their departure Ether therfore this is vntrue that the archbishop exerciseth the same autoritie which the Apostles or that which yow saied before that the office off the Archbishop was in the Apostles time or els this third is true that he hauing in the Apostles time autoritie which he hath now by their death obteined beside their former autoritie that which the Apostle had also Which how neere it pricketh at the papacye I leaue to euery one to consider But yf the Archbishop will succede vnto the administration off order and gouernement off the Apostels why sheweth he not his euidence why bringeth he not forth his recordes of bequest off resignation that it may appeare he is not entred as a trespasser In that sense which I haue shewed in an other place I graunt it true which Ierome saith that all bishops succede vnto the Apostles but shew me who speaketh any thing off the succession off the archbishop vnto them Nay verily that is flat against the archbishops autoritie For if euery bishop haue that autoritie in his church which the Apostles had in all the world it followeth that there nether needeth nether can be any archbishop to receiue any theroff And that if any archbishop chalenge a greater autoritie then is in any one bishop he pulleth to him self greater autoritie in his prouince then euer the Apostles had in the world And by the same reason that they be Lordes and superiours ouer bishops they must be lordes and superiours in their prouince ouer the Apostles them selues if they were aliue Considering they rule ouer those which in their dioceses haue the same autoritie that the Apostles had This I speake not that I thinck the Bishops had not this autoritie from the very birth and foundacion off the function as towching the gouernement off their churches or that there came any autoritie vnto them by the Apostles death which they had not in their tymes but that yt may be vnderstanded that if there were any such succession vnto the Apostles gouernement as the D. phansieth the bishops are the right beyres and that not certein other some shut forth but euery one as Ierome saith Although if tharchbishop should haue an Apostolicall autoritie in gouerning his prouince it hath appeared and more shall God willing that the Apostles gouernement was far from that principalitie and rule one ouer an other which tharchbishops chalēge ouer
no merueill if he were ignorant off the difference between a booke and an epistle and therfore not vnlike but Polidore helped him in his title for the next diuis I am content that the issue declare from whence the archbishop came This is deintie and tender geere and such as I can not deale with diuers times before his answer hath bene that tharchbishops ministerie differeth from the Bishops towching order here he saith they differ not in order before to proue that the church might appoint an archbishop he saied that it might appoint an office beside the offices off the scriptures now he is gone from that saying the Archbishops ministerie is no other ministrie but an other degree Also in an other place he to mainteine tharchbishop saith the church may ad ministeries here because he is ashamed off that he denieth that yt is a new ministerie Then forasmuch as his answer standeth in this difference off ecclesiasticall office and degree and againe betwene ecclesiasticall degree and order becawse I thinck they were neuer heard off before they need some autoritie off the scripture at least some Ecclesiasticall writers to confirme them And beside that in ecclesiasticall writers the mynisteries are separated one from an other by degree the Ans him self in an other place will haue the word degree when it is saied they get vnto them selues a good degree to signifie a diuers ministrie from the Deaconship Likewise in an other place to proue that a Bishop is aboue a priest he vppon certein autorities concludeth that in those times there were three degrees off ministers bishop priest and deacon whereuppon yt must follow that if the Archbishop differ from the bishop in degree ecclesiasticall he must differ in ministerie euen as the degree off deacon being different from the Elder maketh a seuerall mynisterie from yt yea theruppon followeth that there being then but three degrees in the church wheroff the archbishop was none by his owne saying there was then no archbishop seing he maketh him a seuerall degree from them which is a manifest ouerthrow off that he defendeth In an other place to proue Timothe archbishop he alledgeth that thoffice off tharchhishops and bishops be one becawse whatsoeuer is necessarie for a bishop is necessarie for an archbishop which is ridiculous For then a bishop is all one with an Elder considering that whatsoeuer is necessarie for an Elder is necessarie for a bishop and the Euangelistes office the same that an Apostles considering that whatsoeuer is necessarie for an Euang. is necessarie for an Apostle Where to proue the offices all one he should haue saied not onely that it is necessarie for an archbishop which is for a bishop but also that whatsoeuer is necessarie for an archbishop â—s likewise for a bishop Where he saith they differ onely in order and policie and therfore all attributed in the Epistle to Timothe the Archbishop agreeth vnto euery bishop theroff followeth that a commen as he is called not differing in office from our bishop as himself confesseth after shall by the same reason haue power to doo all thinges described in that epistle and consequently make ministers and put owt as well as our bishops doo Thes thinges therfore were giuen owt or euer they were well thowght off some time tharchbishop differeth in office from a bishop sometime he differeth not sometime he differeth in order sometime not some time in degree sometime not To proue that S. Peter by him self withowt the autoritie off other Apostles instituted Archbishops ys browght the example off S. Paul which made Timothe and Tite Archbishops which is to proue one thing in controuersie by that which is likewise and is all one as if one doubting the suffiencie off his creditor in steed off some substanciall man to assure his debt should haue a banck rowt browght to be bownd vnto him Which manner off reasoning when all men know how absurd it is it appeareth that the Ans vsing it continually is as they say at the end off his rolle That S. Paul did not appoint Titus and Timothe of his owne autoritie onely hath before appeared that he did not appoint theÌ„ Archbishops shall afterward God willing be shewed Beside that yt hath bene already off Timothe shewed that he was an Euangelist and the same reason is off Tite To my other reason that S. Peter would not graff the most noble plant as it is counted off the ministerie off the gospell in the rotten stocke off Archflamines he answereth that Peter might place Archbishops where the Archflamines were not in respect off them but in respect off the cytie Which distinction I confesse I vnderstand not onely I see that in this clowde and mist off confused and vndistinct distinctioÌ„ he would steale away vnespied for yf in the same cyties onely where there were Archflamines as we are borne in hand and in place off them Archbishops were placed and as the Archflamines were set to ouersee the flamines so the Archbishops to ouersee the bishops how can it be but they were placed as well in respect off those Achflamines as off the cities For they differ not in this point from Archflam considering that as archbishops were placed in respect off great cyties so were the Archflam before them Here also the Answ floteth in his iudgement off Peter For before he saide he had the cheife rule off the â—â—â—stles in all matters and here he was not aboue them in power so that onles he can mynce vs a diuersity betwene superior in rule and superior in power yt is cleare that he is not the same man here that he was there The lordes preistes and Sacrafices were before the preistes and sacrifices off the Gentills therfore that exception God instituted preistes and sacrifices though the Gentils had the like â—â— vaine to proue that there may be Archbishops as there were Archflamines A Kinge was necessarie for the Israelites to shadow owte to theÌ„ the kingdome of our S. Christe therfore that exaÌ„ple is owte of place To proue conformite betwene the people of God and Idolaters in thinges which are not necessarie as the Archebishoprick is confessed beside that yt ys an euill conclusion to saie there maie be conformitie betwene the people off God and Idolaters in cyuill affaires therfore in ecclesiasticall to ordeine a bishopp and mynister being the institution of God in euery churche where there was other a flamen or masse preiste can not be saide to be framed according to those orders But to ordeine an Archbishop not instituted off God bothe in that place where the Archflamen was and with that rule and autoritie ouer the bishopes which the archflam had ouer their flameÌ„s can not be imagined but to haue bene framed according to that Idolatrous function Yf yow will therfore make the like yow must proue that as yt ys the institucion of God that in euery churche there sholde be a bishop or mynister
that he hathe not smelte this frawde of the papistes and the cawse hereof he mighte haue learned it of Gratian who carieth this whole fable vnto that ende Yow wipe not awaie the filthe off the times vvherin Volusianus wrote and him yow purge not vvho by that he is so deepe in his masse appeareth to haue bene defiled with it And where yow say yt is not like that he would write any thing in that matter which he had not certeinly learned of worthy writers I pray yow what worthyer writers coulde there be in this behalfe then Denis bishop off Corinthe and Euseb I am sure he coulde not fetche further then thes So that from whom soeuer he took yt yf he receiued yt of any yt is cleare he receiued yt off those which being further off the Apostels times can haue no credite herin further thē they shew forthe the autors of their reporte but to make reume for the archbishop we must belieue those thinges as certeine which nether are now nor yet were thē extante whē Eusebius wrote which gathered his storie off writers before his time and not onely testimonies which neuer were but wherof the bare names are not to be founde Wheras the maner of writers is when they alledge any thinge that the former times had not spoken off as at the finding of some greate treasure to note the meanes how that fell into their handes Against the autoritie alledged owte off Eusebius that Denys was bishop is opposed that it is a negatiue argument of autorisie which is an engine to wringe owte off the churches handes a singular meanes which all the writers of our times vse againste the forgeries off the Papistes For when they reason against the forged Epistles againste Chrisostomes leytourgie against the bastard writinges of Augustine c. that there are thinges conteined in them which no writer of that age wherein they are supposed to haue writte maketh mention off the D. hath tawght an easie answer that yt is an euill argument off autoritie negatiuely and that yt followeth not that there were no suche thinges then becawse they were not mentioned in their writinges Likewise when the bishop of Salis made this chalenge after performed that yt coulde not be shewed owt off any alowed writer 600. Yeares after Christe that there was any mention off suche and suche thinges mainteined by poperie the Answ hath with one worde wiped awaie the profite off all those trauailes for yt maie be answered that suche thinges were althowghe none made mencion of them The Papistes in their defences haue harde foreheades but I thincke there is scarce founde amongeste thē that would not blushe at suche an answer Yet this is almost the salue for all sores namely where I haue shewed that in none of the writers within certeine hundred yearés after Christe which haue filled their bookes vvith the mention of bishops there is any the leaste mention of an Archbishop Againste which ryot off answer oftentimes repeted yt shall be sufficiente once here to haue spoken generally Now I come to that more proper to this place that histories are not so curious in calling men by their seuerall tytles because we vse to call the bishops of Canturbery and Yorke oftener by name of bishop then archbishop But he should vnderstand that yt is one thing to speake after the commen sort and an other to write to the approbation of the learned And when there ys no kinde of writing so narrowly bound to the obseruation of circumstances off place time person as a storie yt must bring a great mist in it to put no difference betwene a bishop and an Archbishop considering that that perteineth to the policie off the church vvherunto they had regard So that althowgh he vse some libertie off speach in other places yet in this place yt was more insufferable ād that so cōtinually in Denys twise in Iames in the bishop of Rome of Alexandria c. he might withowt reprehension haue spoken so once or twise but him perpetually to call all Archbishops bishops I thinck yow vvill hardly perswade any man off iudgement And if there had bene any such titles allowed yt would haue appeared in the superscriptions off bishops to archbishops At least the lower degrees off Deacons and Elders would haue acknowledged it as both dutie and honest ciuilitie requireth otherwise if the archbishops had bene froward they would not haue red the letters But not Eusebius onely Denys the Bishop who wrote vnto the church off Athenes so called him euen in that place where if he could truly he would haue awakened those of Athenes with the honorable mention off Denis their former archbishop and not haue let passe that weight off autoritie to haue made his admonition more sounding Furthermore if Eusebius had spoken so vnproperly he is yet to be charged with further confusion For he assigneth hym a parish which is a territorie belonging vnto a simple bishop and not a prouince which is an archbishops kingdom Yf therfore he confounded archbishop with bishop at least he should haue spoken dinstinetly off their charges Last off all how idle a pharisie this is off Denises archbishoprick may be considered forasmuch as Euseb in both places by me alledged calleth him the first bishop off Athenes And that he was first in those partes may easely be seene for that it was the wisdome of the holy gost to settle first the Gospell in the mother townes and head places of dominion◠that from thence it might haue passadge to places rownd about as the practise in the Actes doth declare Now if he were the first bishop chosen after the conuersion of Athenes by the D. saying he was made Archbishop before there were any other bishops to ouersee But forasmuch as tharchbishop is in the nombre of those vvhich hang of other and that there could be no archbishop vvhere there were no bishops nor bishop where there were no churches rownd about it is browght to passe that there being no bishops in those partes at that time vvhen Saint Paul ordeined Denys bishop he can by no meanes be thowght to haue ordeined him archbishop And that vvhich I haue saied in this point against the archbishoprick off Denis the last onely excepted is to be vnderstanded off Iames Titus Timothe c. Yf a spade be but a spade and a fig but a fig then a bishop is but a bishop Then also Erasmus saying alledged pag. 405. that Timothe was a bishop and no vvhere that he vvas an archbishop affirmeth that he was but a bishop Nether doth this make against but for me For if Erasmus speaking but of two called one of them archbishop is it like that Eusebius speaking of so many supposed archbishops called neuer one of them by their proper name nether vvill I stick to confesse that Erasmus deceiued vvith the corruption of times vvherin he liued spake as he thowght imagining Titus an Archbishop as left in Creta an Isle and
the places harde by and lykewise a deacon three which together with their owne bishop should haue autoritie to heare and determine the causes in debate Now if for euery accusation of a bishop there were assembled 12. bishops at the least and that when the matter required haste for euerie accusation of an elder six and off a Deacon three beside their owne bishop and that those might be taken in places harde by all men maye vnderstande that there was more neighbourhood in bishops then is nowe and that yt behoued that those bishops dwelte within no greate compas which might be assembled with suche commoditie For if we shoulde imagine the same condition off bishops then which is nowe how euill aduised should the Councell haue bene to cawse so manie bishops to come so farre with so greate charges with suche longe absence from their churches with suche delaie and suspence off the purgation off them whose speedie dispatche stoode so greatly vpon the glorie off God and edification of their churches Herof yt may easely be seene that this blessing and gifte of God in hauing off a bishop rained not onely vpon greate cities and greate townes but euen ouer litle borowghes and villages where there was a sufficiente congregacion hable to mainteine this mynisterie off the worde And althowghe there be diuerse cawses why the aunciente stories doo not so often make mention of the bishopes of vplandishe townes as that in those tymes of persequution a nomber off them did scarcely yelde one sufficiente companie hable to mainteine the mynisterie off the worde and that by all likelihoode the countrey men rownde abowte made their resorte vnto the good townes nexte them which had a bishop and for that the stories for the moste parte keepe the memorie onely of the moste famous bishops which by godly policie off the churche were placed in the moste peopled townes yet notwithstanding yt ys not harde to shew diuers which are expressedly called bishops off small townes or villages As off one Zorâ—cus Bishop of the village of Coman of Mares Bishop of a small towne called Dolicha of Asclepius Bishop of a small towne in Africa and of others vvhich partly I haue alredy shewed owte off the testimonie off Ierome and partly shall be shewed God willing in discouse off Cyprians testimonies I leaue also to speake of Gregorie bishop of a small cytie called Nazâ—anzum of an other which was priest of the Castle Cumane that is Bishop both which are as well forbidden as to haue a bishop in a village I followeth to shewe vpon what cawses and by what meanes the churche so fruictfull in Bishops became afterwarde so baren wheroff albeit yt is moste certein that the principall cause was the wrathe off the lord who angrie with his churche sente suche a dearthe yet the doings off men which God had disposed of wisely for the accomplishement of his counsell towchinge the man of synne were partly vnaduised partly proceeding off ambicion and that not alwaies after one sorte but taking encrease and gathering strenght with the time So that the ambition which at the first was kepte in some awe and restraincte in the ende brake owte and shewed yt selfe as yt were bare faced In the Africane Councell yt appearethe that before a certeine lawe made of the Emperour whersoeuer aÌ„d in what diocese soeuer there was a churche off Donatistes conuerted vnto the Catholike churche that those proselytes and conuertes had a Bishop of their owne and the Councell there confessethe that they deserued so to haue Wherupon yt folowethe that how many churches so euer off the Donatistes were conuerted so manie Bishops at the leaste there might be in one onely diocese And if this were a good lawe and equall as the Councell confessethe what cause can be assigned why yt shoulde be taken awaie as appeareth yt vvas afterward In the second Councell of Carthage yt vvas decreed that those dioceses which had no bishops should haue none aÌ„d those which had should kepe their proper Bishop Notwithstanding if the number off the faithfull should encrease in that diocese that the people desyring a Bishop if the bishop of the diocese consented therunto might haue another bishop Now in that the Councell ordeined that there should be no bishops in that diocese where there had bene none yt is apparaÌ„te that their dioceses were not the tweÌ„tith parte so large as ours For is there any likelihoode consideringe the nomber off the bishops before proued that the Councell woulde decree that there should be no bishop within 30. or 40. myles as it is with vs And when it ordeineth that in that diocese where there was a bishop alredy the nomber of the faithfull encreasing there might be at the instance off the churches and consente of the bishop other bishops ordeined yt vttereth the cause vvhy diuerse parishes rounde abowte vvere the diocese of one bishop namely for that here and there in this aÌ„d that towne there vvas scarce gleaned owte a sufficient number off those which hauing giuen their names to the gospell were hable to make one sufficiente congregatioÌ„ to maintein the ministrie And therfore ordeined that wheÌ„ the harueste of the faithefull should be more plentifull in those places then also counsell might be taken off moe Bishops Wherupon vve may gather this to haue bene a cause of this scarcitie that it being lefte alwaies in the discretion off the Bishop vvhether he vvoulde haue any moe Bishops throwghe Ambicion yt came to passe that the nombre off Christians increasing they woulde not suffer the people to haue moe bishops but ordeining them Elders and Deacons together with the name off the Bishop reteined vnto them selues a greate parte off the autoritie and gouernement to other belongyng And this ys that vvhich that excellent Martir of God William Tindall shortly noted vvhen the multitude off Christians encreased and the church vvas endovved vvith greate possessioÌ„s the bishops made theÌ„ substitutes vvhich they called preistes and kept the name of Bishop vnto them selues And how vnhappely it was lefte in the Bishops choise ether to suffer another bishop to be instituted or no in his diocese maie appeare by this shameful ambition vvhich euen theÌ„ beganne to shew yt selfe For so far vvas yt that they vvoulde departe vvith any already gotten that they assaied to encroche and sometimes by stronge hande vpon the boundes off others as appeareth by the manifolde debates which they had one with another aboute their precinctes testified in the booke of Councells Another cause off this dearthe was an order taken amongest theÌ„ that where in Afrike there were greate swarmes of Donatiste heretikes and other straungers from the churches as euery Bishop gained those foreners vnto the churche so he enioyed them Which thinge extended not onely vnto euery ones owne diocese but also to other dioceses if the other Bishop were somewhat sluggishe in that behalfe which what a greate
prophanacion yt was of the giftes of God no man of any iudgement in the worde of God can be ignorante For semeth it a meete thing that for the blessing off God gyuen vnto their preaching they shoulde be made rulers off all those peoples which they gained And what differeth this from symonie but that as one selleth the giftes off the holy goste for monie so this made march andrise off them for honor and money both And verely hauing before a competente stocke in this poincte they did not so much get disciples vnto Christe as to them selues nor so much enlarge his kingdome as their owne not doo thoffice of pastors as of hirelinges and stâ—pendarie souldiers bente vpon the spoile Another cause off this scarcitie was that as they prouided that there should be no bishops where were none before so they decred that in dioceses where there were if after the deathe of the bishop the people of that church had rather yelde them selues subiecte vnto another bishop then chuse a newe that it shoulde be lawfull for them so to doo And theruppon yt is very like that diuers churches when good bishops beganne to be rarer then wedges of golde seing any one which behaued him selfe more tolerably yelded them selues vnto him Not muche vnlike those times off the Lordes indignacion which the Prophete speaketh of wherin a nomber of weomen laide holde off one man Beside that it is not vnlike but the stately pompe off bishops hauinge taken deepe roote the people did not vnwillingly quite the estate of a bishop and as off an euill neighbor and one which laie to heauy vpon them were glad to be rid off him yt might be also the peoples faulte which as our experience teachethe to muche rather then they woulde beat the charge of mainteining a sufficiente mynistrie off their owne were contente to yelde vp their priuiledge off hauing a bishop to receiue with abatement off their charges a mynistrie they cared not what Laste of all when Sathan had lifted vp the sonne of perdition into his feare and had made a full conqueste off all synceritie off religion yt was flatly decreed that yt should not be lawfull to ordeine any Bishop ether in villages or small cytie leste throwghe the multitude bishops should waxe vile as I haue alledged in the former booke Wherupon cometh here to be considered what ys answered that I be not coÌ„pelled there to renewe this question againe His answer is that I haue falstfied the place that I haue not redd the Epistle that yf I had hauing anie modestie I would neuer haue so written To let the reste goo and withal his vnworthy reproche so often repeated for saying Boniface to Zacharie in steade off Zachary to Boniface seing the quotation in the margent is right I say to let thes goe consider wherin I haue vsed falshoode Yâ— ys firste assigned in that where the wordes off the Epistle are leste the name off a Bishop shoulde vvax vile I saide leste they shoulde vvaxe vile throvvghe the multitude If I haue falsified in adding throvvgh the multitude what truth or faithe hathe the Answerer vsed in adding becawse the contemptiblenes off the place often tymes bringeth contempte off the person This addicion off wordes ys greater then mine and no more founde in the Epistle then mine whose interpretacion is more aggreable vnto the minde off the writer his that the daunger off contempte was conceiued by reason off the place ormine that it was by reason off the multitude let the reader iudge Which that he may he may the easelier doo let it be considered what Ierome writeth where speaking off the pride off the Deacons he assigneth the cawse that they were so much set by to haue bene their fewnes and the cawse why the Elders were so light made of becawse they were moe in nomber For the aboundance of any commoditie doth so commenly bring downe the price of it that there is no nation I thinck where it is not in prouerb that rare thinges are greatly esteemed as contrariwise thinges off excellent and necessarie vse are throwgh their multitude called vile Which is declared there by example of Poley a commen and vile herb in those countreis and yet for the rarenes more esteemed in India then pepper Of the other side where he saith they were not placed in villages â–ª or small cities because the smallnes of the place doth make the person often times contemned in steed that it is meet the bishop should be reuerenced by that reason there should be no minister of the word in those places at all For it behoueth that the minister also haue the reuerence of his people which becommeth the embassadour and steward off Christ and if the bishop looke for more he pricketh at a further marck then euer the word off God set vp But how cometh it to passe that the bishop off Canturbery is more esteemed then the bishop off London and he off Winchester then he off Norwich if the place cawse the estimacion of the Bishop When gentlemen and noblemen build their howses more commenly in small townes and more solitary places doth the Ans thinck that they lose any of their estimacion therby Also by this reason it owght to be forbidden that Iustices off Peace and Quorum shoulde dwell in countrey townes and commaunded to dwell onely in great townes lest they be contemned off the people But beside that it is contrary to the wisdome of God in the scripture the Paganes which neuer saw that light could tell that the places doo not make men honorable but men the places And Ierome saith the bishop off an obscure citie hath as much autoritie as he off the most famous If the D. aÌ„swer that it owght to be so but it is not throwgh the folie off certein yf that were graunted yet yt is vnmeet that the ministrie should be according to the euill disposition off certein for then forsomuch as yowth is subiect to contempt it shoulde be vnmeet to choose a young man of what giftes soeuer vnto the ministerie Thother falshoode the Ans chargeth me with is for that I gather off this canon that in times paste there were bishops in seuerall parishes and small townes when there was no bishop before off anie parishe yt semeth that his vnderstanding can not be so simple but that he maie perceiue if there were no other proofe that those canones made so often for the forbidding of ordeining of bishops in villages and small cities proceeded theroff that the churches in villages and small cyties had their bishops as other places had For to what pourpose doo they defende yt but that yt was vsed And wherfore was that lawe so often renewed vnles there had bene resistance and vnles the churches refused to subiecte themselues to suche a wicked order yf men make not lawes but vpoÌ„ erperience of thinges which they mislike how muche les doo they renew them againe and againe
but vpon gainsaying And in that Boniface which wrote vnto Zachary had appointed those three bishops in small parishes and townes all vnderstand that yt was no new thing then to haue bishops in such places But because he closethe his eyes and will not see thinges set before him at leaste let him grope them The false Damasus and verie Antichriste writing of this matter inueiethe vehemently againste the appointinge off Bishops in villages which he calleth countrey bishops And yt appeareth plainly in that Epistle that they had the selfe same autoritie in all thinges which citie Bishops had There he saith also that yt was forbidden that there shoulde be any bishop ether in small cytie or in village or Castell leste the name and autoritie of a bishop should waxe vile And therfore commaundeth that those bishops off villages being disgraded off their Bishoprickes shoulde be throwne downe to the order off preisthoode Heere the D. maie vnderstande that euen in the time off Antichriste this order off euerie churche hauing her bishop was not so abolished but that there were remnantes off it in diuers places and some which mainteined the libertie wherin God had sed them againste that owtrage off Satan who becawse he woulde make off bishops yong Princes and saw that euerie parishe was not hable to mainteine that pompe wente abowte with robberie off the reste to lifte vp the heade off one Heroff yt may be seene what cawse the D. hathe to charge me with the falsifiyng of the Popes wordes and how his habilite to defende the Popes decree doothe not answer his desire As for the reasons I browght to proue that the placingâ— off bishops in villages and small cyties coulde no more bringe them in contempte then the shininge of the sonne or falling off the raine in villages as vvell as in cyties breedeth contempte off those benefites or the name or autoritie of father gyuen to poore men as vvell as riche maketh that ordinance off God nothing set by he answereth not a worde Where I further alledged the foresight and wisdome of God which shoulde receiue a greate wound if in instituting for euery churche a Bishop he shoulde not haue foreseen this inconuenience which the Ans vppon the Popes autoritie meinteineth he askethe when and where I haue I truste shewed him now bothe althowghe he if he had ether vnderstoode or remembred what he wrote before twise or thrise when with Ierome he propoundeth vnto vs that Bishop and elder were all one by Gods worde he should not haue falleÌ„ into this extreme boldenes of denying euery thing which is enemie vnto his vnaduised assertions For yf yt be the institution off God that euerie churche shoulde haue a teaching elder and that elder according to Ieromes saying alowed off him were a bishop yt muste needes folowe that to haue a bishop in euerie churche ys the institution of god And because the D. boweth so casely vnder the autoritie of men that he estemeth it the beste proofe let him vnderstande that this was the iudgemeÌ„t off twoo of the moste famous meÌ„ which our lande browght forth thes manie yeares And the same also executed for the testimonie off the truth off god wheroff one of them amongest other thinges suffred also for this cause nowe in hande a The sixte Article which M. Barnes was condemned for is this I vvill neuer belieue nor can neuer belieue that one man maie by the lavve off God be bishop off tvvoo or three cyties yea off an vvhole contrey for that yt is contrary to the doctrine of S. Paul vvhich vvriting vnto Titus commaundeth that he should ordeine a bishop in euery tovvne prouing that by the worde elder the Apostell meaneth a bishop M. Hooper shewing that one man may not haue two lyuinges addeth but this is clavv me and I vvill clavv the. If the bishops permitted not their priestes to haue 2. benefices it may fortune the priestes vvould likevvise say the bishop should be bishop but of one citie And in deed so it should be and till magistrates bring theÌ„ to that point it shal he as possible to heare a bishop vvade godly and symply thorovvgh the scripture in all case off religioÌ„ as to driue a camell thorovvgh the eie of a nedle A great pitie it is to see hovv far the office off a bishop is degenerated from the originall in the scripture It vvas not so in the beginning vvhen bishops vvere at the best as the Epistle to Tite testifieth that vvilled him to ordeine in euerie citie of Crete a bishop And in case there vvere such loue in them novv as vvas then tovvardes the people they vvould say them selues there vvere more to doo for the best off them in one cytie then he could doo They knovv the primitiue church had no such bishops vntill the time off Siluester the first c. Off thes thinges partly and partly of that which shall be hereafter God willing spoken I leaue yt to be esteemed off the indifferente reader with how small ether knowledge or conscience the D. hathe affirmed that yt can nether be shewed by scripture nor confirmed by anie ecclesiasticall writer or practise off the primitiue churche that ether euery churche shoulde haue her bishop or that there should be bishops in villages and small Cyties Thother off the two questions remaineth whether yt can be shewed by scripture and by examples off the primatiue churche â–ª that there were in one churche moe bishops then one which we might in parte haue bene eased off if the answ hauing fallen owte with the trwth were not likewise falleÌ„ owte with him selfe For he approuing off the testimonie off Ierome which affirmeth elders and Bishops all one and that the elders off a churche chose one amoÌ„geste them which onely kepte the name of bishop dothe withall necessarily affirme that before the time that this ordinance was established there were diuers bishops in one church And in saying the word bishop is not commenly vsed but for him that in degree is aboue the rest he at vnawares confesseth that there were diuers bishops in some churches althowgh not commenly But becawse he hath a facultie in denying and affirming withowte shewing any reason and that his worde is no bonde to tie him with all when yt maketh againste him some thinge also muste be spoken towching this matter And seing I haue shewed that he is by S. Paules determination a Bishop which is apâ—e to teache and to exhorte to conuince false doctrine and reproue corrupte maners and that the Ans can not denie but one suche alwaies is not sufficiente for some churches especially where the commoditie of assemblies is so good that euery daie the worde off good ys to be preached yt can not be denied but that there bothe maie and owght to be moe bishops in a churche muche more in a cytie then one And that this was the institution off God it appearethe by the practise of the churches in
Callis Deep Ireland and Flaunders then at Canterbury Yea the triall from Carthage vnto Rome is much easier seing there was but three daies iorney betwene Rome and Carthage As appeareth by that Cato to induce the Senate of Rome to desiroy Carthage held ovvt a fig saying that vvas but the third day sithēs that fig grevv in Carthage Therfore Cyprians argument by his interpretacion is not worth a shoe buckle to proue that they owght not to flie from Carthage to Rome the passage being easter then from one end of a Prouince to an other Especially making suche large Prouinces as he doth that is one to cōteine 160. bishoprickes belike such as ours Where he saith this reason may serue as well againest VVestminster hall leauing that as impertinent vnto this question it shall be sufficiēt to answer that besides that there be many causes ended in lower courtes houldē almost in euery village he owght to vnderstand that ecclesiasticall causes are to be handled with greater speed then ciuill matters of consciēce more then of the pourse the title of heauēly inheritance more then the earthly of the life to come then of this So that althowgh the trial of ciuill cawses for the whole realme were as he saith necessary a◠Westminster yet the same reason will not stand in ecclesiasticall In all thes places which the Ans hath browght owt off Cyprian Eusebius Socrates it is manifest that one bishop is opposed vnto heretick bishops Whereby may appeare how like it is which I haue alledged that by one bishop is vnderstanded not the vnitie off nombre but off truth in religion And that there be no doubt hereof let Cyprians wordes be considered That there should be an other altar appointed and a nevv priesthood besides one altar and one priesthood it can not be VVhatsoeuer he be vvhich gathereth īn an other place scattereth yt is adulterous yt is vvicked yt is sacriledge vvhatsoeuer the rage off men doth institute vvherby the ordinance off God is broken Now except the Ans will say it is wicked against the word of God adulterous to haue two bishops in one citie yt must follow that Cyprians wordes doo not bar many bishops to be in one citie And what if it be shewed that not onely in Cyprians time but in Cyprians church there were diuers bishops Augustine speaking of the Donatistes which seperated them selues from the church for that they saw certein faultes vnpunished therin saith Hovv did then Cyprian and other the Lordes corne in that church meaning Carthage of vnitie eate the Lordes breade and drink his cup not vvith the people onely or commen sort off the Clergie but vvith the bishops themselues vvhich vvere couetous ketchers and vvhich shall not possesse the kingdome off heauen I woulde gladly vnderstand what Bishops they were like to be with vvhom Cyprian did celebrate the supper off the lord were they not Bishops off the churche off Carthage If they were it appeareth I haue not so vainly expounded Cyprian as the Ans would beare his reader in hand And althowgh the D. be not able to proue that ther was but one onely bishop in a citie in Chysostomes time yet I graunt that was obserued in the moste places Whether I am able to shew that from Christes time there were two Bishops in one cytie before appeared now appeareth what a vaine crack it was that all the godliest and best learned expound Cyprians wordes off an Archbishop when not one can be found to testifie it Yet to th end he may haue some thing to mainteine this brag he goeth about to make the writers differ from them selues For if this place be off the autoritie that euery bishop hath in his dioces as writers doo flatly affirme in so much that the bishop off Salisbury bringeth in Cyprian speaking after this sort For euery bishop saith Cyprian vvithin his ovvne dioces is the priest of God c then yt cannot be vnderstanded of an Archbishop For the autoritie Cyprian speaketh off being the highest and such as could not be controlled of any other bishop yt must necessarily seclude tharch bishops autoritie which is aboue a bishop And as the Answ to make Cyprians place serue his turne was compelled to expound Priest archbishop church Prouince so to make the bishop and M. Fox help to beare owt his folies he must expound dioces Prouince and Bishop archbishop And what man̄er of proofe is this to cōclude the greater by the lesse yf of an archbishops autoritie he had concluded a bishops it had bene more probable but off a bishops to conclude an archbishops and off dominion ouer a dioces as he pretendeth to conclude dominion ouer one Prouince is far owt off square The next is answered in the beginning The first place is that the bishop vpon that of Cyprian saith confusion and sectes rise in a Prouince or dioces vvhere the Bishops autoritie c. Here because the bishop maketh mention off Prouince he concludeth that he speaketh off an archbishop As if his wordes may not well be taken that the confusion of secres insueth in a whole Prouince thorowghowt because the bishops autoritie which be therī is dispised For beside that I haue shewed that the bishop can not sauing his former sentence which he soft repeateth expound Cyprians place off an archbishop if he had in this place ment an archbishop it had bene easie to haue coupled him with his Prouince as he doth the bishop with his dioces He asketh me what I call him that hath gouernement off a Prouince I aske him where the bishop off Sal. saith Cyprians place is to be vnderstood of that bishop which hath gouernement off a Prouince doth the onely mention of the word Prouince ▪ infer an Archbishop If he proue an Archbishop and Prouince relatiues so that a man can not name the one but he muste vnderstand the other he saith some thing Ad also that the Ans dealeth vnfaithfully in this place For the bishop making his conclusion both off Cyprian and of a place off Honorius Emperour he propoundeth it as the conclusion of Cyprians place onely Whereas if he could conclude off thes wordes vvithin a prouince an archbishop yet yt were easie to answer that the bishop put in those wordes in respect of the place cyted owt of the Emperour and not in respect off Cyprians Considering that within a dousen lines after he affirmeth that Cyprians place is vnderstanded off thautoritie off a Bishop within his seuerall dices and by vvhole Brotherhood a companie vvithin a seuerall dioces For that off M. Novvell pag. 33. beside that whatsoeuer he speaketh there is not vpon this place of Cyprian but of an other I haue shewed in the former booke that cheif Prelate ys not alwaies vsed for a bishop And that it is not altogether vnlike but M. Nowell might meane so appeareth by that the D. cyteth owt off the 62. and 63. pag. wherehe taketh cheif
priest and bishop for the same Howbeit because the autor him selfe ys aliue and knoweth best what he meaneth I am well content the meaning off his wordes be such as him self shall beste like off Out off M Fox he can not finde so much as a fig leafe and therfore telleth vs how he saith Rome vvas a patriarchall church and therfofore not vnlike but Carthage was also how by a dioces is ment a Prouince and forsomuch as he allowed an archbishop yt is like he expounded Cyprians place of an archbishop The onely rehersall is too long a confutation In the end are recited at large the wordes of M. Philpot. which attributing vnto Cyprian a dioces declareth that he esteemed him a bishop not an archbishop For that he calleth him the Nouatians cheif Bishop yt is far from the estate of an archbishop He might well call him so in respect of his singular learning and pietie or in that he was bishop off the cheifest place in Afrik And the same may be saied off Cornelius being Patriarch For otherwise in autoritie he could not be seing him self confesseth that patriarches were appointed at the councell off Nice about 150. years after Albeit the truth is that the appointement of those 4. patriarchall seates was not by the Councell off Nice but off Calcedon Nether doth it follow that if Cornelius were a Pairiarch therfore he was Prince off many bishops onles he will say that becawse Tertullian calleth Philosophers Patriarches off Heretikes and Ierome Tacianus the Patriarch of Encratites therfore Philosophers and Tacianus bore dominion ouer the Heretikes or Encratites He might be so called in that he was cheif father of the church off Rome where he executed his office as Ierome witnesseth off the Iewes Rabbines to haue bene called Patriarches yet they had no gouernmēt or rule but in the seuerall Synagogues where they taught Now it appeareth the Ans can not bring so much as one seely testimony to proue this place of Cyprian vnderstood of tharchbishops or metropolitanes autoritie besides that alledged of Muscu flatly denying that Cyp. thowght of any Archbis or Metrop but onely of euery Bishop in his owne church I will ad the testimony of Bucer who affirmeth the very same that I. Shewing against the Pope that Christ onely is vniuersall bishop he assigneth this reason For he is present vvith his sheepe and vvith euery of them and feedeth thē vntill the end of the vvorlde and for this cavvse putteth ministers in his place and that to euery church her seuerall minister For he did not onely gyue Apostles Prophetes Euangelistes and ministers off many churches once but gyueth also daily vnto euery church off his her ministers Pastors and Doctors and both instructeth and leadeth them vvith his spirit that they may serue their ministries him self onely gyuing increase vnto their planting and vvatering For vnto euery one off them he hath appointed a proper portion off the flock as S. Cyprian testified by vvarrant off tradition off Christ and his Apostles and that vvith this condition and povver that euery one together vvith his presbyterie and Clergie should rule his vvhole flock as one vvhich should make account off his ovvne act not vnto the Pope off Rome but to the lord vvhich is the Prince of Pastors Amōgest vvhō no man might appoint him self bishop of bishops or iudge an other or be iudged of an other vvherupon the iudgemēt of the bishop belonged vnto Synodes not vnto one bishop as long as the policie off the church gyuen by thapostels stoode Therfore bishops vvere equall not onely in povver of the keies by vvhich fable Latomus vvould elude the place of Cyprian but also in vse and degree off povver and iurisdiction In the end shutting vp all that he had saied off the metropolitanes he saith This is the sentence off the catholike church concerning the povver of bishopes as vvell off Rome as others grounded on the vvord off God approued by canons obserued off all true bishops Wherin Bucer affirmeth that this portion off the flock which Cyprian speaketh off is the charge off euery minister in his seuerall church and that by institution off Christ and his Apostels no minister or bishop can haue an other bishop to iudge him but that if there be a fault in him it is to be iudged by Synodes Thus I leaue to the readers iudgement how it was more easie for the Ans to say the godliest and learnedest writers expound the place of Cyprian of an archbishop then to shew it when it cometh to proofe And althowgh he fall flat vnder the bourden vndertaken in his first booke yet as thowgh he had not half his lode he hath charged him self a fresh For where before he saied the godliest and learnedest expound this of an archbishop now he saith all learned writers expound it as he doth It were well there were some reasonable proportion betwene the toung and the hand for it can not be but a fowle fault to be so long tounged and so short handed Before I come to Ieromes testimonie the order off tymes for the better vnderstanding off this cause requireth that those bothe autorities and examples be answered which the Answerer hath alledged bothe before owte off the Councell off Nice and Antioche and after pa. 470. c. The nexte to the times off Cyprian is Dionysius Alexandrinus which saith he had vnder his iurisdictiō all the churches in Pentapolis as Athanasius testifieth in a certeine epistle Apolog 2. First there ys no suche thinge in all that booke nor in no epistle conteined therin The place he meaneth of is in an epistle he wrote concerning Dionysius iudgement againste the Arian heresie Then yt ys not saide as he reporteth that all the churches of Pentapolis were vnder his iurisdiction but onely that he had care of those churches or as the translators words be the care of those churches apperteined vnto him Which what litle or no weighte they haue to proue archiepiscopall iurisdictiō shall be seene when we come to the place where the sense of this to haue care ys discussed In the meane time yt is to be obserued for better triall of this matter which I haue before noted owte of Eusebius that he succeded in the bishoprick off Alexandria vnto his predecessor withowte attributing vnto hym any further charge And when as Euseb declareth that he writing vnto the churches in Egipte wrote vnto them by the bare name of the brethren vvhich vvere in Aegypte withowte any title betokening anie bonde or knot off mynisterie towardes them and off the other parte writing vnto the churches in Alexandria intitleth that writing an exhortation vnto his flocke he declareth euidently that he estemed Alexandria his proper charge and that sauing that bothe in respecte Aegypte was his contrey and the peace of his owne churche was folded vp in the welfare of yt his care for Aegipte was generall as for other churches And the very testimonie
ministers preach and suppresse heresies so well thorowgh all the church as an archbishop in a Prouince I haue shewed that albeit one be graunted more impossible then the other yet this also is impossible which is sufficient to proue that in hand And that is here confessed when he is constreyned to lay one part off his dutie vpon his Suffraganes shoulders an other vpon his archdeacons c. All which if he be able to beare him self why doth he driue them vnto others Let the church at least be discharged off thes bourdens If not why hath he taken it vpon him Yf the Pope deserue condemnacion for taking more vpon him then he is able to doo the Archbishop and bishops which beare him companie in this point caÌ„ not be separated from it So this reason browght against the Pope standeth fast against them Moreouer as the Pope can not dispatch his matters in the whole churche so well as an Archbis in a prouince so can nether an Archbis in his Prouince so well as a bishop in his dioces nor he in his dioces so wel as in a particular coÌ„gregacioÌ„ doo the duties of a bishop So that this answer no more shutteth owt the Pope then the archbishop or lordly bishop But he saith the archbishop may haue conference with his archdeacons and Chauncelours which the Pope can not He seemeth to haue forgotten the conference by letters and intelligence which the Pope hath had from tyme to time so particular and precise off churches furtheste off him as if he had bene in the bosome off them which pointe Maister Tindall hathe well set forthe And would to God there were the tenth part off the fruicte off the archbishops conference vnto the good off our churche which hathe bene off the Popes to the ouerthrow therof And if conference by mouthe be necessary Rome is not so far but as it hathe bene so it maie be had For besydes that stories aforde vs diuers examples off churches which haue sowght the appeasing off their controuersies from places further remoued then Canterbury is from Rome the marchandrise off vnitie owght to be so precious that we shoulde not doubte to saile for yt vnto the Indes and Garamantes so that if there be suche a mysterie in the nomber of one to kepe vnitie the distance of place owght not to hinder this monarchie off the whole churche yf for no other cause yet for this that when the archbishops of whom hangeth forsoothe the churches peaâ—â— are fallen owt there maie be some to accord them That as the mynisters haue lorde bishops and they tharchbishops so the archbishops might haue a Pope in reuerence off whose autoritie they might easelyer be conioined And in deede by so much more yt is necessary in this respect there should be a Pope ouer the archbishop then ether archbis ouer bishops or bishops ouer ministers as the reÌ„te and diuisioÌ„ in theÌ„ being cheif is more hurtfull then when it falleth amongeste those in lower places For when schismes and heresies light amongeste them they spred so muche further as they with the arme and power off their autoritie are hable to flinge them further then the other The differences betwene the Pope and the archbishop serue but for stuffing for I excepted in my replie the corruptions off doctrine and yow owght to haue vnderstanded that superiority of one bishop ouer all in the catholike churche chosen by consente doothe not necessarily drawe thes accidentes of contempte of Princes of making their decrees equall with the lawes of god c. Yow should therfore haue made yowr coÌ„parison betwene an vniuersall Bishop chosen and not breaking in violently meinteining the truthe and not fighting againste yt c. Vnto that I alledged that thinges passing by voice in the churche of Alexandria the distinction off bishop from the reste off the elders in the church there might come in vvithovvte Saint Marckes consente he saithe nothing And in deede if he had obteined that which he woulde so faine that this alteration was made in S. Marckes time yet he shall neuer obteine this that S. Marke had his hande in that chaunge onles he will saie the Apostells and Apostolicall men were autors off all thinges doone in their time in euery singular congregacion Vnto that I saide the vvordes from Saint Marcke maie be taken rather exclusiuely to shut ovvte S. Marke he answereth that none off iudgement will graunte that where notwithstanding he that hath anie iudgement doth easely vnderstande that the wordes haue manie times that significacioÌ„ and that they are so here I am coÌ„tent it be tried by the other reasons propounded I alledged that S. Marck can not be autor off that distinction because he making those thinges diuers vvhich the holy Gost made one should make the storie he vvrote suspected He answereth yt ys certeine thes were no otherwise distinguished then the holy gost appointed them which I haue shewed how shameles yt ys Then that my collection is vngodly to imagine so off the gospell written by the Euangeliste As yff I did not in plaine wordes deteste all suspicion of the vntrwthe off that Gospell and therfore caste awaie his false surmise which might gyue occasion theroff He saith therby appeareth at the least that yt was auncient I denie not but yt is manifeste also that ther were other corruptions in some places of the churche as aunciente The Answ as his coustome is taketh his pleasure off me because vpon the wordes off Ierome this coustome vvas at Alexandria I gather that yt was not in other places As if yt were not manifeste that Ierome noteth where yt began and if it had beginning at Alexandria yt was there when yt was not in other churches If it had had further passage at that time Ierome should haue doone yt iniurie in coÌ„cealing yt For it would haue made much for the credite off that distinction Which I alledging in the next diuis the Ans saith nothing vnto Nether is there anie so rude an idiote which knowethe not that a notable or vnwonted thinge saide off one man place or time is spoken emphatically and excludeth all other But as the D. will not vnderstande a generall proposition vnles yt haue the signe all or euerie before yt so he will not vnderstande that any thinge is appropriat vnto another vnles yt haue thes wordes onely alone c. And it is cleare how intollerable the D. is in his insultations seing Ierome in saying that this coustome gat grounde by litle and lytle declareth the trwth of my collection And where he answereth to that I obiected off the confounding oftentimes off prieste and bishop that the bishop is a prieste but not contrariwise he first answereth not to the argumeÌ„t For this is not to be confounded when off two thinges one is verified of the other but thother can not returne and be verified of his fellow Secondly his answer is ouerthrowne by his exposition of the place of
which I haue shewed to be far from the vse of those times or onles we graunt that there can be no schismes nor heresies in a particular congregacion wherof there is to good experience or that yt is impossible there should be many elders in one church which I haue declared and shall God willing declare further to be vntrue I saie onles thes proue an archbishop or a lorde bishop there is nothing in those wordes off Ierome And yet the D. that he may helpe his weake reasons with stronge wordes muste vppon thes conclude yt impossible to expounde Ieromes wordes otherwise then off bishop or archbishop such as ours Where he concludeth vpon that the elders chose one amongeste them whom they made bishop as the captaine is chosen of the the soldiars that therfore the bishop was ouer diuers congregations there is no likelyhood off reason And where to giue yt some he threapeth twoo thinges at my hande the one that this worde elder signifieth onely a minister off the worde thother that euery minister of the worde had his seuerall flocke he doothe but dalie For he knoweth well that I hould that the worde elder reacheth to such as gouerne onely and that there were in diuers congregations more then one which preached the word of god Where he saith those which I call obscure villages were litle cyties suche as with vs Ely or Peterborowgh I leue it to the reader to iudge how muche I haue therin squared from Erasmus who calleth them peeuish litle Tovvnes Where he saith he callethe them base cities I am contente the reader take which he liketh beste For bothe in proper speache can not be trew for to cal a towne and a litle towne and a peuishe lytle towne a citie is not for any thinge I know wonted Howbeit I will not here striue yt is sufficient that I haue shewed that there were bishops in other places which were no cities And euen in this the D. letteth fall the Popes decree which he defendeth in an other place which forbiddeth as well to place bishops in base and small cities as in vplandishe townes And albeit the D. be not hable by thes wordes of Ierome nor by any other which he hathe browght to proue that the bishop had any further reache then vnto one onely churche yet forsomuche as yt is not here question off the victorie but off trwth nor what the Ans is hable to proue but what maye be proued I will not denie but in Ieromes times the bishops vpon occasions before off me alledged had enlarged their boundes in suche sorte that there were certen congregacions which belonged to their ouersight and wherof they were called bishops But I appele first to the institution off God and vse of the purer times after the Apostles and then I answer that a dioces was not the twentith part of that which they haue now As appeareth by that alledged before owt of the Councels and by that Ierome saith that their elders vnder them gouerned in commen vvith them which they coulde not haue doon onles they being hard by had made one bodie with them For nether could the bishop doo any thing in his congregation withowt the elders nor they in theirs withowt him but they made one Senate amongest them The practise wherof is yet to be seen in certein reformed churches ▪ where the elders off certein small parishes round abowt make one bodie off Senate with the elders off the principall towne meeting together once at the least euery week Sauing that they haue altogether abolished that euill coustome which wrong the name of bishop from all the rest vnto one and graunted the ordinacion to him alone there being one amongest them which hath onely this aboue the rest when they assemble together to propound matters gather the voices giuethe exhortations and that also for a time and not during his ministerie I haue shewed that the argument wherwith the Ans would off a bishop conclude an archbishop and off one ouer a dioces one ouer a whole Prouince is too bad and it is not here to be repeted This place requireth to shew that albeit the Metropolitan was now receiued in the East partes yet ether he was not in the most partes off the weast where Ierom was or Ierome did not acknowledge him Wherin I will first propound my argumentes and after answer to his obiections And firste euen with the selfe same places he would proue tharchbishop is he ouerturned as of that againste the Lucifer For if it be certein which I haue shewed that Ierome speaketh off the autoritie that euery bishop hath in his precincte and plaine by Ieromes wordes that the autoritie he speaketh off there is suche as not onely hath no superior but no mate yt muste folow that aboue the bishop which Ierome propoundeth there can be no archbishop Againe where he affirmeth that the bishop elder and deacon vnder the gospell are in the same place that Aron his sonnes and the Leuites were vnder the law yt maie be concluded that forasmuch as euerie bishop in his charge hathe the same autoritie Aaron had and yt is certeine that there was no ecclesiasticall autoritie ouer Aaron therfore by Ierome there owght to be none aboue the bishop in euery churche Moreouer vpon that he saith that all bishops succede vnto the Apostels yt maie be reasoned forsomuch as the bishops haue the places off the Apostels in their seuerall churches and it certeine that the Apostels had no dominion one ouer an other but equall autoritie ▪ as bothe hath bene and shall be God willing further shewed that bishops owght not to haue anie bishop to whom they owght to be subiecte Beside this speaking off the orders in the churche in his times he reckenethe vp deacons archdeacons elders archelders and bishops If there had bene any Archbishops where hē was or he had alowed of anie there coulde neuer haue bene so fit a place to haue spoken off him considering that his purpose was to shew those degrees which were Seing therefore he maketh no mention off him yt is apparant that there was none or that he alowed off none Moreouer he putteth this difference betwene the Montanistes and the Catholikes that Catholikes had their bishops as the successors off thapostels gyuing vnto them the firste place but the montaniste heretikes had in the firste and cheifest place Patriarches in the seconde certeine vvhich they called Cenones so that the Bishop with them occupied but the thirde Now if the bishop was the higheste degree in the catholike churche and if to haue a Patriarche which the D. saith is all one with a Metropolitane and Archbishop ouer the bishop was in Ieromes iudgement worthie off this reproche I leaue yt to the readers iudgement what was Ieromes opinion off the office off an Archbishop and whether the same blot which he marked in the rowte off Montanistes be not in our churche where there is aboue
so strong to carrie the metropolitaneship ouer all these places to Chrysostome as Nazianzenes wordes before handled are to carrie the metropolitaneship off almost all the churches in the worlde vnto Cyprian For these wordes he had the same care can not be vnderstoode as the D. would that he did the same thinges in all places which he did at Constantinople For how could he teache and rebuke sin in all that circuite as there depriue and excommunicate in proper person as there so that will he nil he the wordes must haue a restreint in respecte off those before as for the greke word he translateth he gouerned which signifieth he adorned vnles he haue some singular licence i◠is for a translation especially too riotous althowghe if that were there yt drawethe no metropolitane autoritie as hathe bene shewed in Cyprians example I graunt Sozomenes are more pressing which speakethe off his deposing off the bishops in Asia and if to mainteine my former answere I would say he deposed them not by his autoritie but by his counsaile as Diophantus said off the cytie of Athenes ruled by him because Themistocles his father vvhich ruled yt vvas guided by his mother and his mother by him and therto alledge that he is called the Doctor off the vvoride by the same Theodoret when notwithstanding he coulde not be an authorised doctor off suche a compas yt would peraduenture be more then he can wel answer But if he will as he dothe make that his paterne to frame his Archbishop by he maketh vs a faicrer but to shoote at then before the archbis being made therby in authoritie off breaking canons off the best Councells by putting in and putting owte off his absolute power not infeferior vnto the pope of Rome and in compasse off dominion aboue him and a fatter Pope then he And beside that it is but trifling to fetche examples off Archbishop like gouernement fower hundrethe yeares and a halfe after Christe or there abowt where the question is off three hundrethe I haue shewed how daungerous yt is to builde vpon the examples off those times especially when euen in this pointe off broad dominion before Chrysostomes time there was an intollerable excesse in the bishop off Antioche which beside Chrysostomes compas had also all Illyricum Towching Ireneus ambassage into Phrigia the D. eye is not simple For after Euseb had shewed that there were Ambassadours sent by the frenche churches to those off Phrigia he addeth as an augmentation that they vvere also sent to the bishop off Rome After to the ende the ambassage might haue more autoritie he sheweth how Ireneus was sent being commended vnto the bishop off Rome to the end as may easely appeare that his letter also obteined with theirs the churches might be the rather moued Whether I haue followed the Scoliastes meaning towching euerie hishop hauing a seuerall congregation I referre me to that I haue before alledged The D. answer to Chrysostome which placeth the bishops charge in one citie that he dothe but shew how the Bishop ys subiecte to as many afflictions as the Emperour and that he puttethe no difference betwene the Bishop and the Emperour is but a cauill For his pourpose is to shew what are the manifold troubles that accompanie the mynistery therby to pinche those which seeke after yt and that he dothe with an argument off comparison in that being but bishop off one citie yet he is subiecte not onely to so many but to moe troubles then the Emperour which hath so large gouernement Now if bishops autority should be extended as the D. estemeth Chrysostomes who seeth not that his cōparison halteth downe right considering that there were few Emperours or rather none sithens Constantine that euer had so large dominion as this ascribed vnto Chrysostome For against this argument yt might haue bene easely replied off those which laie in waite for the ministerie that seing one was able to gouerne so many whole countreis and nations yt could not be so hard a matter to gouerne one onely citie I could not here be put to shifte seing where our question is off 300. yow fetche your proufes off 400. whether I haue said trew let the reader iudge Where I alledge the first acte off the Calcedon Councell that the bishops cried that Theodoret vvas no bishop be alledgeth the 8. acte that he was If yt be a simple answere to set one author against an other yt is muche more simple to set one autoritie at variaunce with yt selfe withowt shewing any way of reconciliatiō That the Councell did well in condēning that Theodoret appeareth for that he had writtē against Cyril euen in that Cyrill wrote against Nestorius errors in which respecte his bookes were commaunded to be burnte with those errors And this was not onely done by the Councel off Calcedon but by that also off Ephesus and Constantinople so that here are three condemnations passed against him for one absolution And that what maner off one verelie which appeareth to haue bene throwghe the fauour off the Emperour Martian For what if he reuoked his heresie there as he had I thinck done before in the Councel off Constantinople yet as I haue shewed there was no cause why he should be trusted with suche a greate charge no not in the D. iudgemēt I suppose so soudenlie and withowt further triall Which I say not to discredite his trew repentance and learned writinges but onely to shew how totteringlie the D. Archbishop is set Where I alledged that the Emperour Theodosius and Valētinian cōmaunded him to kepe him to his ovvne church onely his answere is fond that the Emperours meaning was that he should not come to the Synode For are these two all one to kepe him self to his ovvne churche onely and not to come to the Synode When he might come to the synode althowghe he kept not him selfe to his owne churche onely which he could not haue done yf they had bene all one Where he saithe yt appeareth that the Emperour gaue that charge that he should not come vnto the Synode but called yt maketh nothing to the pourpose For that may well stand with that I alledged off his keping to one churche onely And in dede there had bene small wisdome to haue forbidden him the Councell in respecte off the heresie he laboured off and yet to haue suffred him to gouerne such a mightie people When I expounded tares hipocrites I had not the booke before me but trusting therin to Theodoretes knowledge in the scripture estemed that he meant them off whom the parable is vnderstanded that is those off whose ether corruption in life or doctrine the churche can haue no certeine knowledge to procede againste or to giue as he did sentence vpon Neither is he yet purged off the suspicion considering that yt can hardly be belieued that ther was not in 800. churches one onely heretike And if ther were
him selfe listeth with other such archbishoplicke and vnministerlike loftines reckened and earnestly auouched and yet notwithstanding as he saith sparingly touched to th end belike that it might haue an easyer defense And if the lord bishops are his vassaâ—eâ— the poore ministers what place shall they haue His repetitions I will not touch The autoritie out off the counterfaicte Higinus as I noted him that the metropolitan should coÌ„demne no bishop before the matter heard aÌ„d discussed by the bishops of the Prouince maketh for vs more then yf yt had bene out off the true Higinus considering that the archbishop in the counterfaicte Higinus time being groweÌ„ much our of fashion was yet girded in les roume then ours The like restreincte off his autoritie was in the Africane Councell How fond the D. answer is that our archbishop putteth none out withowt due proof is manifest considering that the greatest monarche that euer was hath no further autoritie to condemne then vpon dew proof likewise what daliance yt is that he doth nothing but by consent of al the realme and therfore off the bishops is before declared Where missing the nomber off the Canon I alledged out off the Councell off Antioch that the metropolitan had not so much as the casting voice vvhen the bishops vvere equally deuided he answereth there is no mention off equalitie off voices as thowgh he vvere ignorant that matters in Councells passed by the more parte off voices Forsomuch therefore as the Councell vppon the diuision off the bishops iudgementes willeth that other should be called yt is to be estemed that that was because the bishops were equally parted Where he saith therby a metropolitan had autority ouer moe prouinces then one yt foloweth not For beside that the canoÌ„ is of all metropolitans so that whatsoeuer any off them might doo in an others precincte that the other might doe in his by this accounte the elders yea the Deacons had autoritie ouer the bishops considering that they accused might call other bishops theÌ„ their owne Where he saieh thautoritie of our metropolitaÌ„ and bishops is nothing increased but decreased forsomuch as nether he nor all the bishops can depriue a bishop withowt the consent of the Prince yt is not to purpose seing al the bishops in the world may not nor euer could off right remoue a bishop by force if the Prince vvould kepe him in Our question is of the ecclesiasticall sentence of deposicion And if he meane that a bishop heretike schismatike or corrupte in manners may not be proceded againste by an ecclesiasticall sentence off deposition yea off excommunication yf the case require onles the Prince vvill consente beside that his endeuour off flattery is to manifeste his meaning is to cut out the archbishop so that he shall doo nether more nor les then will agree with his ease and wherby he may shifte the Crosse from his shoulders For all know that Christian princes may be and sometimes are drawne to fauour those vvhose pastorall gouernement can not be but harmefull vnto the churche in which case the Ecclesiasticall censures owght not to sleepe to th end that allthowghe he can not be remoued yet the churche after he be descried and condemned for such as he is may flie from him That the bishop may excommunicate an elder belongeth to an other tractate that he may depose an elder is vntrw and hath appeared in that the councell off Carthage decreed that an elder accused by his bishop might cal 6. other bishops and the deacon three and likewise may by an other which decreed that being condemned off his bishop ether by right or vvronge he might appeale vnto other bishops Beside that I haue shewed that he might heare no cause withowt his clergie therfore those condemnations by the bishop must be vnderstanded if he be duly and according to the order prescribed condemned He abuseth also his reader in that he would proue the bishops autoritie greater because it was forbidden to those put out by him to goe to the Emperour Considering that the same canon gyueth them remedy againste the bishop in a greater assembly yea euen againste a whole Synode in a more generall then it Whether the 4. Firste principal differences betwene the bishops in times paste and oures now be trwe let the reader iudge off that hath bene alledged Likewise off the fift vpon that vvhich hath and shall be against which he hath nothing but repetitions Also whether the D knoweth any thing off order that denieth this to be the place off mentioning the excommunication in such sorte as I did That alledged owt off the Councell of Hispalis touching that the elder ovvght not to preach in the bishop presence is in a Councell supposed more auncient then thr firste Nicene likewise yt was obserued in the Africane churches in Augustines time And that yt endured vntil the yeare off the Lord 659. when there were â—rosse corruptions tendeth to further condemnation off our Bishops further owt of fashion in that behalfe then those degenerat ones and if this Councell be not to be alledged for the corruptions then how cometh yt that Volufianus in the year â—65 a bishop off a corrupter estate whose masse is grosser then that off this Councel is made so godly a man yt is well knowne that later Councels then this and therefore for the most part corrupter are cited off the godly learned as testimonial traces of the Syncerity in purer times That the elder by this canon willed off the bishop myght preach in his presence is vntrw onely yt is said that with the bishops commaundement he might giue absolution to the penitent which was then as now with vs an other thing from preaching That ther hath bene no time wherin there haue bene moe preaching bishops then now with vs onles all be preachers is vntrw seing an vnpreaching bishop was wonte as M. Cal. proueth to be a moÌ„ster and cried owt on in very corrupt times Yf our bishops be compared with the Popishe in this poincte they may be thowght dutifull but diuers compared with bishops off auncient time may well be accounted domb Considering their often preaching the traces wheroff are to be seen diuersly namely in the Councell off Ments before by me alledged Wherunto serueth M. Hoopers saying that the churche at the beginning had suche bishops as did preache many godly Sermons in les time then our bishops horses be a brideling Yf the rare preaching off some be but Mens faulte and not the offices then our Archbishops whether off synistre fauour or as gyltie them selues play their partes euil Considering that diuers faulte openly in this euen the cheif pointe off their office and haue had for any thing I haue heard good peniworthes off yt Where still appeareth how daungerous yt is to the churche to lay such weight off the churches welfare in one man In the next diuis let the reader
off the church nor disturber off the peace but pleased god and lefte a notable example to all posteritie off Kinges and Queenes that they should not for any respecte of kindred league or allie suffer any suche pollution in their landes The same also might be fall vnto them in gatheringe off the booke for it maye well be that there purpose was by that tempere off popishe ceremonies with the gospell partly the easelier to drawe the papistes to the gospell whilest fearing that they would not frame them selues to yt yt should be some what framed vnto them partely to redeme peace therby the breach wheroff they feared might haue ensued off suche a perfecte and throwgh chaunge as the sinceritie off the gospell required Yff this were there purpose they were studious of peace and buildinge of the churche but yet erred in the meane so it appeareth that it being graunted vvhich the A. demaundeth yet my gathering off his argument is iustified To the 37. sect pag. 30. WHie should yow note here that Cyprians place was abused by the Papistes yt is besides your purpose and contrary to the law to leaue your matche withe whom your are collered and take yow to a stander by For so vnhappelie is it come to passe that the papistes whose disorders and corruption off the discipline off Christ were here oppugned haue founde yow their champion to fight for them whilest they looke on And to what ende seruethe this headlesse arrowe not shott but picked owt against the Papistes They are god be praised substantially conuinced off the corruption off this place off Cyprian by diuerse learned men so that this bare affirmation that Cyprian speakethe not off the vsurped authoritie off the Bishopp off Rome besides yt is owt off season dothe rather moue laughter and confirme the enemie in his obstinacie then giue him remedie against his error But what weighethe this word for in our language is it not a causall and rendreth a reason off that which goethe before Whiche yow haue therfore by all lykelihoode lefte owt that this poore shifte might haue some colour the reste is answered before Vnto the next I answere that yt shall appeare when I come to that place whether there be suche reasons or no. In the next sectioÌ„ he chargeth me in great wordes withe vntruthe and askethe me where I finde in the â—3 page this argument that by that there was one offeuerie congregation he prouethe that there was one ouer a whole prouince To whom I answere that in that he concludethe an Archebishopp ouer a prouince vpon Ignatius places whiche speake off a Bishop in euerie churche he makethe the same argument whiche I haue made To the next page 32. being bare denials and false accusations I answere not Vnto the next sect pag. 33. LEauing his vntrue accusations I answere that where he saithe that the case off Luther and Zuinglius off Circumcision and preaching vnto gentilles which I alledged are not like for that they be substantiall pointes of religion and these be not it is his oulde cuckoes songe For we offer to proue this also off the substance off Religion And I browght the examples onely to shew that to be vntrue which he goethe abowt to perswade that all those which contende where the gospell is preached are to be holden for disturbers Thother difference which he placeth in that Luther and Zuinglius did that which they did in strininge abowt the SacrameÌ„t by consent off theire seuerall magistrates althoughe he dothe not make that appeare yet I aske him what Zuinglius c. should haue done iff the Magistrate would not haue suffred him to answere should he haue suffred the truthe to be destitute off his defence Where he citeth owt off Zuinglius that the gospell is a sworde to deuide the faithfull and therfore that this doctrine which hathe made a diuision in the church can not be good I answere that althoughe he might well saye it to the Anabaptistes and that yt so comethe to passe for the most parte yet that can be no generall rule consideringe that the preaching that circumcision was not necessarie although it deuided those off the church which beleued it from those that did not beleue it yet those which did not beleue it did not ther fore cease to be off the churche and off the numbre off the faithfull The Sermon which our Sauior Christ had amongest his disciples and those that beleued in him touching that his fleshe was the true meate and his bloude the true drinke which who soeuer did not eate and drinke could not haue life in hym did make suche a cut amongest the Disciples that all sauing twelue departed from our Sauiour Christ Yff they made a full departure and Apostasie it is euident that the gospell cureth euen those which be in the church cleane from it yff they did not vtterlie forsake the gospell but offended at that sermon were not as before dailie folowers off our sauior Christ yet it is cleare that that doctrine of the gospell did make apartition betwene the twelue and those other which went there waies in that they beleued that sermon which the other did not they were taught and the other offended Wherupon it foloweth that ether the doctrine which our Sauiour Christ preached was not the truthe or els the truthe may sometimes deuide the faithfull amongest themselues I could cite diuerse other examples bothe owt off the Actes off the Apostles and owt off S. Iohn but these shall suffise to shew the vanitie off M. D. reason And iff he will saye that iff he err M. Zuinglius errethe withe him he is vecelie vnworthy the name off a Deuine that carethe not how ofte he fallethe so he maye fall withe companie Howbeit I haue shewed howe M. Zuinglius sayinge may be vpholden and yet make nothinge for the confirmation off that which he would proue To the next pa. 36. IT fareth withe M. D. as withe malefactors whiche hauing left somethinge behinde them wherby they may be knowen for feare off that whiche foloweth renounce it vtterlie to be theirs But that the conclusion off all thes articles is as I haue set downe that is to saye that the authors off the admonition are either Anabaptistes or in the waye to Anabaptisme albeit he here denie yt I reporte me to the conscience off all those that shall reade him And let his vvordes be considered vvhich be that Anabaptiisme is almost plainely professed in the admonition and so be iudged vvhether I haue trulie gathered his meaning yea or no. I haue spoken so plainelie in that the Answerer maketh so straunge and weroff he requireth more open speache that I can not speake plainlier I vse the wordes which are worne in all schooles and writers which haue occasion to speake off these matters I gaue that which I said light by examples Notwithstandinge he can not see how the Ministerie off England maye be commonlie and for the moste parte vnlawfull and
at large Vnto the fowre nexte sections I answer nothing sauing that where in the seconde secâ— pa. 5â— he saith that master Caluin in his booke against the Anabaptistes affirmethe that the churche as towching the external pollicie can not be perfecte I doo assure my selffe that as in other places so heere he hathe vntrewly saide off Maister Caluin And yt cannot bâ— vnknowne but in Moses and the Apostlâ—â— times ther was a perfecte patruÌ„ of the owtwarde gouernernment off the churches bothe giuen off the lorde and receiued off the churches neither can there be any parte of the owtwarde gouernement off the churche assigned by the answerer which draweth any suche impossibilitie withe yt as he imagineth And iff he saye that ther were faultes committed againste those perfecte patrones that is not to the purpose For the faultes off particular persons doo no more ouerthrowe the perfection off the gouernment whiche was receiued then the faultes off the officers in our churche againste the lawes theroff are to be imputed vnto the lawes them selues wherby that gouernment standeth And as for the examples off the churches off Corinthe and Galatia whiche he alledgeth they rather make against him For that disorder whiche the Apostle chargeth them withe being a slyding backe and falling awaye from that estate wherin they were firste off all set by the Apostell argueth that there was a time when the contrarie off those disorders had place in their churches In the nexte section he alledgeth diuers examples to proue that enemies one withe another conspire against the trewthe whiche no man do which and where I shewed that the churches friÌ„des may doo some thiÌ„ges which some of the churches enemies doo against him whiche in that the admonitors doo certaine thinges with the Papiste and Anabaptistes woulde giue to vnderstande that they are conspired with theÌ„ he answerethe that the admonitors conspire withe the enemies off the churche in thinges whiche are againste the churche which is a manifest begging off that whiche is in controuersie Towching that which I sayde he hathe tawght that there is no commaundement in the scripture to put heretikes to deathe althowghe he denie that euer he did so yet beside that he mainteineth the same in the seconde treatise where he leaueth yt in the libertie off the magistrate whether he will doo yt or no and reiecteth all the lawes off God prouided in that behalfe as Iewis he there be moo witnesses off this then his bare deniall is hable to beare downe to whose knowledge I wil so reporte me in this behalfe that if they confirme not the same I refuse not to beare the blame off that reporte where he saieth there is no cause that he shoulde be better thought of emonge the papistes which teache and practise the contrarie althoughe the Papistes abuse this doctrine to the horrible murther off the church yet the doctrine is the doctrine off god and not the Papistes and yow by staying the course off yt nourishe them to the daye off slawghter and shedding off the bloude off the sainctes off god vvhich is their feaste and vvhiche they so greatly delight in and longe after In althat which foloweth vnto the first tractate vvhich beginneeth page 62. there is nothing worthe the answere And as for that whole tractate because yt perteineth to the question off lordeshipp and dominion off the Archebishopps ouer the bishops and off the Bishopps ouer the reste off the Ministers yt shall be referred to the beginning off the 8. Tractate where the answerer shall receiue his replie What authoritie the churche hathe in making off orders Chapter 1. pag. 77. THe playster vvherwithe the answerer woulde heale his vnskilfulnes in the expounding off tollerating in the churche by these wordes placing in the churche will not cleane For to let pas the meanig off the admonition whiche he shoulde haue shewed iff he mainteine his answer by yt and not as he doothe contrary to all lawe of disputation bid me proue that their meaning was not so as he supposeth I saie to let that pas yt appeareth by bis plaine vvordes that this exposition was not framed in regarde off the meaning off the admonition but for that he knew not what difference there was betwene placinge in the churche and tollerating in the churche For himselffe coÌ„fesseth that this is the principall grounde of their booke that those thinges onely shoulde be placed in the churche whiche the lorde himself in his worde comÌ„aundethe and ascribing this iudgemeÌ„t vnto them he afterwarde expoundeth that to be asmuche as if they shoulde haue saide that nothing shulde be tolerated c. yff this be their principall grounde that nothing be placed c as the A. confessethe and placing in the churche is not the same that tollerating in the churche as he doothe also confesse yt must folowe that the principall grounde off the admonition was not as he saithe that nothing shoulde be tollerated in the churche not commaunded by the worde And his wordes doo discharge the admonition off any suche assertion For in that he saithe that their meaning was so farr as he coulde gather that nothing shoulde be placed c. yt is manifeste that in saying nowe that they mente that nothinge shoulde be tolerated c. he chargeth them farther then he was then hable to gather off their booke Afterwarde he chargethe me withe an vnaduised and a popishe assertion for that I say that many thinges are commaunded in the scripture vvhich are not expressed in yt He neded not to haue trauailed far to haue seene how far I am from poperie in in this pointe iff he woulde haue but considered the wordes which folowe in the same diuision that god hathe set before vs in his vvorde a perfect patrone off his churche But I was at leaste ouerseene in this kind off speache Alas iff he woulde vnderstande his grammer and acknowledge that which simple scholers off the gramÌ„er schoole doo well knowe that their is difference betweene expressed and conteined betweene expressed and included betweene expressed and implied betweene expressed and gathered He woulde neuer haue troubled the reader with suche folies And as for that which I set downe I did yt vppon Good groundes For who is there which knoweth not that thes thinges that there is one essence and three persons in the godheade that there is in our Sauiour Christe one parson and two natures are not expressed but onely conteined in the worde off God And iff proofe must be had off thinges which is to greate shame for one that cariethe the title off a diuine to be ignorant off let the answerer know that lerned diuines speake afte this sorte Their wordes be thes Off the father of the Sonne and holy ghoste there is one nature one essence and thre persons In Christ our lorde there be tvvo natures and one person and many other thinges vvhich the catholike churche doothe receiue rather layde oute by the interpretation
othe made with theÌ„ put to deathe And vnles this be admitted we shall be compelled to condemne the spies which entred into league with Rachab the Harlot and SalomoÌ„ which receiued the Amorytes that voluntaryly yelded theÌ„ selues vnto his obedience and withall vnto the obedience off the lorde as it maie appeare in the bookes off Esra and Nehemias where their posteritie which are there called the sonnes off the seruantes of Salomon hauing of olde time grow ne into one bodie off the churche off god withe the children of Israel ioyne themâ—elues with theÌ„ in the restoring of the temple Wheruppon the A. may vnderstande that the Scripture reasonethe negatiuely againste the Israelites in a thinge wheroff there was no commaundement to the contrarie Moreouer we reade that when Dauid had taken this counsell to builde a temple vnto the lorde albeit the lorde had reuealed before in his worde that there shoulde be suche a standing place where the arke off the couenante and the seruice off god shoulde haue a certeine abydinge and albeit there was no worde off god which forbad Dauid to builde the temple yet the lorde with commendation off his good affection and zeale he had to the aduancement off his glorie concludeth againste Dauid his resolution to builde the temple with this reason namelie that he had giuen no commaundement off this who shoulde builde yt Where he woulde grounde this answer vpon the wordes off Zuinglius yt is manifest that Zuinglius reproueth the Anabaptistes not for reasoning negatiuely off the authoritie off the scripture but that they reasoned negatiuely off an acte or an example And there is great difference betwene them that saye it is no conteined or it can not be concluded off any place in the scripture therefore yt is vnlawfull and betweene the Anabaptistes which reason that therefore the baptisme off children is vnlawfull because it is not founde in the Scriptures that the Apostles did babtize any children Wheras iff they had reasoned thus that the baptisme off yonge children was vnlawfull forasmuche as yt was not commaunded in the scriptures althowghe the grounde off their reason had bene false yet their conclusion had bene faste and sure And therfore iff the answerer wolde haue delte trewly he shoulde not haue fathered this answer of Zuinglius whiche hathe no suche thinge but off the Papistes whose proper defense this is againste those whiche manifie the sufficiencie of the worde off God as that whiche giueth men addresse vnto all thinges whiche are to be doone Maister Harding reprochethe the Bishopp off Salusbery with this kinde off reasoning whiche the answerer obiectethe againste vs so often vnto whom the Bishopp answereth The Atgument Maister Hearding meanethe and not very plainely vttereth is the argumente off authoritie negatiuely vvhich is taken to be goode vvhen soeuer proufe is taken off godds vvorde and is vsed not onely by vs but also by many of the catholike fathers And there alledgeth how Saint Paul in the 3. Gal. dispureth negatiuely off the authoritie off the scripture for that the Apostel vppon the wordes off Moses in thy seede and not seades concludeth that our sauiour Christe was vnderstanded likewise he shewe the how Origine reasoneth after the same sorte And a litle after sheweth the reason why the argumente off authoritie off of the scripture negatiuelie is good namely for that the worde off God is perfecte In another place vnto Maister Harding casting him in the teethe with the negatiue Argumentes he alledgeth places owte of Ireneus Chrisostome Loo which reasoned negatiuely of the authoritie of the scripture The places which he alledgeth be very full and plaine in generalitie withowt any suche restraincte as the A. imagineth as they are there to be seene Wheras he saithe that the reason that God coulde giue a perfecte patrone off the churche therfore he hathe so doone doothe no more folow then in there all presence off the Sacrament he doothe but trifle withe his reader For I reason not off the bare power off God but haue ioyned his will with his power For my wordes be that the Lorde determining to set before our eyes a perfecte forme off his churche is bothe hable to doo yt and hathe doone yt Where yt is euidente vnto all men that I grounde my reason not onely off the habilitie off the lorde but vpon his determination not onely off that which he coulde doo but off that he hathe doone Diuision 2. pag. 79. VNto that wherin he was towched for his vnskilfulnes in diuiding in that bothe matters off gouernement and matters of faithe which he deuideth and by diuiding opposethe meete so frendlie together in the gouernement of the Pope he answerthe not And yet hauing nothing to answer he findeth him selfe the talke of a whole sheete of paper For first off all how ridiculous ys it that he saithe he did not put a case but an example Then whether perteines it that he settethe doune what the Papistes saye off the pope what the pope doothe himselffe That also whiche he affirmethe in so good earnest that no gouernement owght to be receiued direcly againste the worde off God that he repeatethe and repeateth againe his negatiue argument of the popes supremacie are they not all strey spreaches fraied owt of ther wittes carying not the weight of a fether to the profe off any thinge in controuersie hauing no knot either with the cause or one of them with another Likewise the distinctions off Ceremonies and gouernement off substantiall and accidentall of externall and spirituall are altogether vnprofitable brought to auoide his apparant ignorance in diuiding Likewise his dalying in his questions what gouernement I meane which is apparant in the discours off all our bookes off boothe sydes also his groping at none dayes by questions what it mente by matters necessarie to saluation which is expressed off me in the very nexte diusioÌ„ and againe in the thirde chap. 2 diuision Afterwarde when he setteth him selffe to proue that there is no one finde off gouernement certaine and vnuariable in the churche let yt be obserued how loosely aÌ„d childishelie he doothe yt For beside the firste reason which is a begging of that whiche is in questioÌ„ and the later reason drawne of the authoritie of maister Gwalier wherof he can haue no aduantage vnles with master Gwalter he will affirme that excommunication is not necessary nor yet conuenient vnder a Christien magistrate all the reste of his authorities drawne owte of M. Caluine the heluetian confession Bullinger are quite beside the cause For they are to proue that there may be a churche withowte excommunication As thowghe the question were what thinges the churche of those whiche be prescribed by the worde off God may wante aÌ„d yet be the churche of god and not what thinges yt owght to haue by the prescripte of the worde off god Or as thowghe the question were how sicke the churche might be and yet liue how meimed
to the bishoppes alone is made off custome that is twise a yeare at the least iff any come at the intreaty off some in authoritie of tentimes and not vpon any neede off the churche For when almoste is the request of suche as be in authoritie refused in that election In deede there is no extreme sute the doore is not so harde locked ther neadeth but the liftinge vp off the latche And yt is also I graunte withowt contention For howe can the bishope contende with him sele Vnles he and his conscience sometimes fall owte which cōtention is to be wisshed that it were greater And set me all the borowghes and cities together in the whole realme where elections passe by voice yowe shall finde they can not all afforde so many vnworthy officers as haue swarmed ministers from the sole election of the moste parte off the bishopes in Englande Yf yowr affirmaciōs be so clear that yowe dare com̄itte thē so barely withowte profe to the iudgemēt of mē I dare with better reason let these goe which are donne before the sonne in the conscience off all men which the brwte beastes them selues woulde witnes iff they coulde speake Yf he be condemned off the Apostell which iudgeth off one mans action before the time that is before he seeth what it i◠▪ what great presumption ys it thus to iudge the churche off God And therfore that I be no partaker off yowr sinne and plage which withowt repentance ensueth I answer that I thinke they will chuse the meteste that they will followe the lorde before the lorde of the towne yf the lorde off the towne drawe not with the Lorde that they will not doe one off their neighbours pleasure to the dishonour off the lorde and the hurte off all them selues and the whole congregation that the peace off God not contention will be in the churche off God that they being the church off God and the mysticall bodie off our fauiour Christe shall haue an hable and fit pastor if they haue one lyke vnto them selues and so shal be like people like pastor And iff a whole churche assembled together in the feare off God with inuocation off his name be ouercaried by affection off loue or feare to chose him that ys vnmeet the bishope maie muche more beinge but one man subiecte to the same passions they be onles yow can happely shewe some prerogatiue to exempte him from the common infection So for any thinge yet alleadged the lighte off reason rather fauoureth the election off the minister by many then by one Nowe let vs see whether the holie scriptures wheruppon wee laie the weighte off this election receiue any better answer To youre answere to the ◠and sixte off the Actes yow haue my replye before And where yow add further to the firste off the Actes that Maister Beza saithe that they were not presented by the multitude but by the Apostels onely I know not wherfore yow shoulde bringe that in For I say not that the multitude had the presentation yt appeareth manifestly that no one had the handlinge of that action which striketh the bishopes sole election to the harte yt appeareth also that the iudgement and consente of the churche was required which is that wee desire Maister Beza writeth thus Augustine vvith vvhome this vvhole chapiter is reade very corruptly interpreteth this vvorde they set vpp he set vp not vvithovvt a daungerous error for here vvas nothinge done off Peter by him selfe as one endevved vvith greater dignitie but euerie thinge is done publikely and by voices off the vvhole churche Vppon the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he saithe thus The strenght off this vvorde vvhich is to ordeine by voices is to be noted that vve maye knovve that Paule and Barnaba◠did nothīg by their ovvne priuate pleasure nor exerciced no tyrāny in the churche as the Romishe Harlot dothe novve and his assistants vvhich they call ordinaries And in other place vppon the wordes lay not thy handee suddenly vpon any c. That is saithe he admitte not all vvithovvt choise to any Ecclesiasticall function as muche as in the liethe For all the authoritie vvas not in Timothie but after the election made by voices off the vvhole churche as vve haue saide of the electiō in the 14. of the Actes ād as appeareth by the election off Matthias and the Deacons he that gouerned the cōpanie in the name of the vvhole Eldershipe did by the putting on off his handes consecrate hym that vvas chosen And in an other place were the apostle willeth Titus that he shoulde appointe elders tovvne by tovvne he referreth the reader to his exposition off the place off the 5. to Timothy and the 14. off the Actes And in the same chapiter owte off the whiche maister D. hathe borowed this place he sheweth that albeit all those thinges are not allwaies to be followed whiche were done in the apostolicall elections notwithstanding that they had one vnchangeable ende and asking what that was he answereth amongest other this that nether pastors nor Deacons shoulde be thruste vppon the flocke againste the vvill theroff And after in the same chapiter he saithe plainely that it is tyranny that the gouuernours off the churche shoulde be geuen vnto the churche vvithovvte the consent theroff also that it belongethe to the Presbytery to choose the offices off the churche when they be voide There are a nomber off moe places to be foūde in hī to this pourpose that I may leaue owt heare it epistle in his boke of epist. because I suppose yt is in euery mans handes which is moste cleare for the deciding of this cōtrouersie To come therfore to the examination off this dealinge fyrste in that he saith that it had bene a dangerous error if S. Peter had done any thinge off his ovvne authoritie withowt the assistance of other the Apostels in that he saithe that Timothie had not not onely not the election off the ministers but not the ordination in his povvre but that whiche he did he did in the name off the reste off the eldershipe and in that he saithe yt belongethe chefly to the office of the elders to chuse the offices of the churche as ofte as they be voide and addethe that he neuer founde in any Christian churche established that kinde off election vvhiche is in the povvre one yt is cleare that he vtterly condemnethe as altogether vnwonted as vsurped as tiran̄icall that election whiche is made by the bishope alone and that this is one of the substantiall poinctes off a lawfull Ecclesiasticall election that it be donne by the Eldership Secondly in that he saithe yt vvas the vnchangable pourpose off the Apostels to prouide that the gouernours off the churche shoulde not be thruste vppon the churche againste her vvill that Paule and Barnabas to then-tente they vvoulde bringe in no tyrannie into the churche permitted the election off the elders vnto the voices theroff
that they bringe tyranny vnto the churche vvhiche vvithovvte the coÌ„sent of the multitude at their one pleasure call any vnto a publike function in the churche yt is moste manifeste that maister Beza holdethe this for an other substantiall poincte off a lawfull Ecclesiasticall electioÌ„ in a church established that yt be made with the peoples coÌ„sente So that yt appearethe that the election made by the Bishope alone receiueth off Maister Beza twoo deadly woundes as yt were in the harte and in the heade one for that it is not as well done by the authorite off the Eldershipe as by the bishoppe or pastor an other bicause yt is not done by the consente off the churche Nowe what doe wee require in the election off Ecclesiasticall officers which Maister Beza dothe not wee require that yt be not permitted to one he detestethe it as tyrannie we saie that yt oughte to be done by the elder shipe and by consente at the leste off the people he saithe the same What are the thinges then vsed in the Apostels elections that M. Beza saithe may be altered and wheroff there is no certeine rule prescribed whiche the churche is allwaies bounde to followe forsouthe thes thinges as may be easely gathered that where sometimes the people vppon particular occasions did first chuse and the approbation off the gouernours did followe other some times and for the moste parte the gouernours wente before and directed the iudgementes off the people that in this circunstance the churche shoulde be at her libertie to order and vse whiche off theis waies she shoulde thinke moste fâ—tte hauinge regarde to the times and other circumstaÌ„ces whiche mighte moue to take ether the one or the other Againe where the GreciaÌ„s vsed in their elections the cerimonie off holdinge vpp the hande to testifie their liking off him that was chosen other as the Romains goinge from one syde vnto an other Whereoff cam pedibus ire in sententiam others by silence did approue that whiche was propounded that in thes and suche lyke the churche mighte vse that ceremonie whiche is bothe receiued in that place and leste subiecte to slaunderous speache And that whiche the Answ hathe browghte here dothe especially belonge vnto this and is geuen off M. Beza where he shewethe that the manner off the Asians was to testifie there consente by liftinge vp of handes But off what thinges so euer in the election that rule is giuen Yt can by no means take awaye the election from the Eldershipe off euery churche nor the peoples consente to put all in the Bishopes hande Seinge that as hathe bene shewed he makethe these twoe substantiall poinctes off a lawfull ecclesiasticall election And if the Answ will accorde vs those wee shall soone agree for the reste Vppon all this matter I leaue to the reader to esteme howe ether vncircunspectly or vnfaithfully M. S. hath not borowed but taken awaye whether Maister Beza wil or no his senteÌ„ces to ouerthrowe that whiche he so often times and in so vehement wordes so plainly dothe establishe Nowe for your questions yowe praie me to answere althowghe they come so often that yow maye aptelier be called the Questioner then the Ansvverer and that I neede not by any order off disputation be driuen to speake to suche flying demaundes yet I am contente to let yow vse this aduantage off venting them after this sorte which yow can not put in any forme off argument and whiche beinge a litle streighte girte shrinke a waie or euer they come to be examined But I muste praie yow also that where yowr questions be no weightier yow will be contente that I answer them as shortly as yow propownde them Albeit I haue in effecte answered them already in this section I saie therfore that where the Apostles in the firste off the Actes good before the reste off the churche and directe them that is the moste conuenient waie for ordenary elections as that whiche was bothe moste vsed in the Apostolicall elections and whiche is borne vp by apparante reason whiche is that they shoulde shewe the waie to others which are likeste to knowe it best And wheras the people present firste and then the Apostels approue after for as muche as that roose of a particular occasion whiche was for that the Apostels dealing was somewhat suspected as not altogether indifferent but to muche bending to the poore off theire one nation yf the lyke case shoulde fall the like remedy may be vsed beside that that election off the Deacons might be more safely committed vnto the people then that off the pastors the people being more able to iudge off their abilitie in disposing off the mony then off the knowledge required for the preaching off the word The casting off the lottes for so muche as yt was to this ende that the election off an Apostle shoulde be immediatly from God and not by any mans voice that consideratioÌ„ ceassing the lot also in ecclesiasticall elections howesoeuer yt semeth otherwise to some owghte to die In the sixt off the Actes the imposition of handes being vsed in all elections by the churche and hauig a profitable aduertisement that he whiche is ordeined is sett a parte from the rest for the seruice off the churche and that from thence forthe he muste not serue him selffe and his but the churche and conteining also an assurance off the lordes hande and helpe alwaies readie in assisting of him muste needes be holden still for ordenary to be vsed in all elections The praier be fore the lot in the 1. of the Actes being expressedly vsed in all elections And being nowe by so muche more necessary then it was then as the habilitie is lesse nowe in the chusers then yt was then muste needes be thoughte a paterne to frame owre elections by And where yow saie ther was no suche thinge as praier in the 〈◊〉 off the Actes yt is a token yow haue litle truthe in yow whiche will denie that whiche is expressed manifestly in the texte for although S. Luke doeth not declare what were the wordes they vsed yet there being praier made for them there was suche a thinge That in the 1. Act. twoo were presented for one office that was that waie mighte be made to the deuine election by lotte that one onely was taken was becawse there was but one place voide That in the sixte of the acres 7. were presented was becawse the church was thowght to haue neede off so manie for the prouysion off their poore that all were ordeined was for that the Apostels liked well off them all Be there yet any more behinde I loked when yow shoulde saye that in the firste off the actes there was a bowte sixe score in the sixte almoste six thowsande there but eleuen Apostles here twelue there speaking withe one tonge here with many For the matters in controuersy that is to saie whether the peoples consente is to be had c.
affyrme that the example off the Apostles in layinge on of handes vpon hym which ys to be ordeined coun terualleth a commaundement and owght to be folowed And if where I haue said the doinges of the Apostles owght to be folowed in the gouernment of the churches he aske how I answere that that they did in especiall cases then is to followed vvhen suche cases fall those which they did ordinarily and generally to be ordinarily and generally followed Those thinges which they did in founding off churches and before they were established to be in life maner vsed those which they did when the churches were established to be in the same maner ordered And to enter yet further into this matter Where he saithe that the argument is nothing worth which is drawen of the facte of the Apostle by the same reason he also condemneth argumentes browght of the factes of our Sauiour Christ and muche more of all other holie men and Prophetes Wherof the scripture is full as when our Sau. Christ proueth that it was lawfull in some case to breake the corporall reste of the Sabothe by the example off Dauids eating of the shew bread As when he excused him selfe that he did not worke his miracles in Nazareth where he was nourished vp rather then in Capernaum and other places by the examples off Elias and Elizeus by which he tawght that a man may attempte nothing without a vocation all these argumentes if M. D. had had the answeringe of them he would as it semeth haue said vnto our sauiour Christ that they are nothing worth I graunt there be some actes of our Sauiour Christ and other godlie men in the scripture vvhich being commendable in them would not be so in vs they hauinge some either extraordinarie spirite or commaundement vvhich we haue not Off which sort Idowbte not but Maister Zuinglius mente this sentence which yow alleadge As would haue bene easely seene yf yow had quoted the place I think he hathe bene alledged ād quoted aboue fortie times before and neuer a sentēce that maketh either whot or coulde to the matters in controuersie or which might once prouoke me to look whether they were so or noo this onely place was somewhat materiall and here it is not quoted But to come againe to those extraordinarie factes I saie that as the spoilinge off the Egyptians by the Israelites at the commaundemēt off God and the killinge of Cosby and Zamry by Phinchas throwghe the inspiration off the spirite off God can not let vs from teachinge generally that theft is vnlawfull that the Magistrate only owght to punishe publike malefactors so those fewe Actes vvhich doon of our Sau. Christ the Apostles and other godlie men are not to be folowed off vs can not let vs to teache generally that there Godly deedes which lie in vs to doo owght to be followed And as I may reason notwithstanding those exāples that he is a thefe because he hath taken that vvhich an other hath labored for against his will and he is a murtherer because he hathe slaine a malefactor being no magistrate for that purpose so I may saie he dothe well for so our Sau. Christ did so did the patriarches and he dothe euill for our Sauiour Christ the Apostles the patriarches did otherwise in that case And he that shall denie this argument vvithowt shewinge some speciall and manifest reason Wherfore it was lawfull for the one to doo that vvhich was not for the other he is vnworthie to be a scholer in the diuinitie scooles much lesse Doctor Yf therfore the Ans would haue by any Good order put me from the possession of this place he should haue shewed that S. Paul of some speciall occasion which falleth not into our ministerie vsed this circumspection in taking suche a clowde off witnesses for the assurance off Timothies good behauior or that there is some generall rule and commaundement to the contrarie But that as he hathe not done so he can not doo there being no one stepp of any such either particular cause or generall rule either mentioned or to be gathered of that place or of any other scripture It must therfore be estemed that S. Paul did that of a generall equitie and common conuēience which owght to be vsed in such graue and weightie matters off the church Yea if M. D. Would haue a litle laid a syde his inordinate desyre off mainteining that which he hath once written he should haue founde iuster cause of this circumspection in our elections then in this For if S. Paul an Apostel endewed vvith suche a gift of discretion of spirites would not take Timothy vvhich had bene browght vpp from his cradell in the knowledge of the Scriptures and had liued in all commendation from his infancie Timothe I say whom he had now knowen as it may be verie probably shewed of some reasonable time into companye of his ministe rye withowt suche diligent circumspection how muche lesse may a Bishop in authoritie inferor vnto him in gifte of discerninge spirites not to be compared receyue into the mynistery vpon the Testymonie off one onelie a man vvhom he hathe not knowen before and vvhatsoeuer he be in knowledge of the word of God far behinde Timothy And yt is not to be let passe for further answere to that which ys alleadged owt of Zuinglius Of a deede or an example to make a lavv that yt hath bene shewed to haue bene the practise of all the Apostles at other tymes in there elections and therfore this is not of one facte to make a rule but off the continuull practise of the Apostles Moreouer by defense of receiuing at the testimony of one onely what doth he els then make as easie an entrance into the highest place off the church off God as a man off any calling and wisdome ioyned with yt would make into one of the least offices of his howse for surely if he haue any regarde vnto the good order of his howse and consider that the misbehauiour off his seruāte vvhom he vvill put in any trust reacheth vnto the dishonour of him selfe and his vvhole howshold he vvill neuer admit him vvhom he knoweth not vvithowt some one mans commendation off whom he is well assured But the law of God in this behalfe is most clere which to the deciding of a vveighty matter in dowbt requireth two witnesses and if it can be thre and namely where the iudgement is of bloude yt expresly forbiddeth that iudgement should passe vpon the Testimonye of one But in the iudgement of a minister where the question is of a great numbre of destruction of bodie and soule and that for euer shall it being dowbtfull be giuē vpō one mās testimonie how sufficient so euer he be Especially seing that there owght to be greater triall and more plentifull witnes in the churche matters thē in ciuil causes which may appeare further by that which S. Paul writeth vnto Tymothie Where he
that mynisterie So that yf they vvoulde conclude any thinge off that example they muste conclude that the churche maie chuse one which yt thincketh vvill deceyue the truste that ys laide vppon him I coulde here dispute vvhether althowghe he repented trewlie yet forsomuche as he is subiecte to another suche fall as well as any other yt vvere boothe lesse daunger for hym and les hurte for the churche to receiue suche an ouerthrowe vnder an other capitayne neuer foiled then vnder him vnder whoÌ„ yt hathe already bene put to flighte But forsomuche as yt is not so cleare and requireth a longer discourse I am contente to let that passe Yet that maye not be omitted that as in the refusall off a minister which hathe defyled hym selfe withe Idolatrie prouision is made for the safety and securitie of the churche so an eye ys had to a more plentifull fruicte which maie redounde vnto it by hym that is placed in the ministrie And forasmuche as no smale portion off that shoulde be by greate likelihoode turned a waie by restoring suche one as hathe fallen so grieuously amongest other reasons that also hathe force to hinder his restirucion For vvhen S. Paule requireth aucthoritie in a deacon purchased by continuall tenor and as yt weere by an euen thread of a holye and innocente liffe that he might vvithe greater libertie and boldnes execute his office he sufficiently declarethe that suche a fall especially in the bishoppe and mynister taken in the race off his ministerie maketh a deepe wounde into that authoritie and freedome off rebukinge others which is necessary for hym for furtherance off hy mynistry to retaine And as yt taketh awaie from his freedome in reprehending so that which he reprehendethe hathe so muche lesse aucthoritye withe the hearer as yt is not onlye not confyrmed but contraried by his example And yf Tymothe beinge endewed with suche rare gyftes off knowledge and holynes off lyffe had muche a doo to mainteine his authoritie in the churche againste the contempte of his yowthe which was no faulte he had neede haue very extraordinarie gyftes which can deliuer hys mynisterie from contempte ten folde more occasioned by suche a fall then by wante of a fewe years Seinge therfore the vvounde beinge healed by repentance the skarr dothe yet remaine in the eyes of the churche to the blemishinge of his Mynistrie yt ys good he be taken downe and set in some les lightesome place off the churche off God. There was yet a thirde reason vvhiche no doubte moued the churches to keepe this order that this barre off hym from the mynistrie vvhiche had so fallen mighte serue for example vnto other mynisters to take heede For they consydered well that as common wealthes so the churches of God are preserued by rewarde and punishement and that as in the rewarde off some other are prouoked to make after those thinges vvhich are by that rewarde crowned so by the punishement off some other are terrified from doinge that for whiche they see them dishonored Therfore they thowghte yt vnmete that he which had faulted in the qualytie off a mynister shoulde no other wise be disciplined then a pryuate person but rather as his faulte exceded so his correction shoulde encrease Whiche thinge beinge so muche commended in common wealthes well gouerned I see no cause why yt shoulde not be as conueniente in the churche off God so farre and in suche kinde off corrections as are in the churches power And therfore yt appeareth that the commaundemente which is gyuen in Ezethiell and in the booke off the kinges for the separatinge off the Leuytes from their Ministerie which had fallen to Idolatrye was not a lawe for a tyme but drawne from the springe off that equytie which can not be changed And so farr is yt that the gospell hath made this lawe voide that yt hathe also confyrmed yt for yf the ministerie off the lawe were so gloriouse that yt vvoulde not be handled off those which had once fallen from yt by Idolatrie althowghe they did repente howe muche more owghte the mynystrie off the gospell which so surmounteth the mynisterie off the lawe as the gospell dothe the lawe be vntowched off suche as forsaking yt haue defyled them selues with that synne And if for a lesse faulte they were kepte from a lower place in the church for a greater faulte shoulde not they muche more be kepte from a higher dignitie for wheras nowe the seconde tyme he faithe that vnder the lawe there were certeine corporall pollutions which made a man vncleane for a tyme yt proceadethe of too great ignorance off the Scripture either in not knowing in what shorte tyme those polutions mighte be purged or els assigning anie cawse off the Leuytes putting forthe off their ministrie for euer for the polutions which were in so fewe dayes clensed Yowr allegatioÌ„n owte off maister Caluin towching the widowes is nothing for yow nothing to the cause For what if he saye that the Apostell requireth that they shoulde be benyficiall doothe yt therfore followe that respecte shoulde not be had into their vvhole life Yt may be easely vnsterstaÌ„ded that the apostel hauing drawne the office off a wydowe throwghe diuers sortes of good workes becawse yt had bene to longe to recyte all shutteth vp vvith that clause as yf he shoulde saie that I stande not in rehersall off all I will haue her suche as hathe exercised her selfe in euery good worke But I desire the reader to obserue the vnfaithfullnes and open corruption that he vseth in cyting off maister Calu. For his iudgement being not called for but answere required to the wordes of S. Paule he hath taken that which serueth not to the purpose and hathe lefte owte that in the exposition of the same verse which is directly againste that he alledgeth maister Caluin for Whose wordes are these There is no dovvbte bâ—t there vvere vvorshipfull and very reuerent colledges or companies off vvidovves therfore Paule vvill haue none chosen thether but such as be commended by a notable testimonie off their vvhole former lyfe And wheras he asketh howe coulde that be when they had but one parte off theire lyfe knowen Christe not to speake off the Iewishe widowes which might haue led their whole life in good and holy worckes in deede he muste learne that S. Paule dothe not there speake onely off good workes which are the fruictes of faithe but callethe those good workes whiche are cyuilly and in owtewarde shewe and estimacion off men good So that he requireth that those onely be chosen emongest the weomen which were neuer detected off any notable cryme but haue allwaies lyued in an honeste cyuill behauiour amongest their neighboures And thus S. Luke calleth those vveomen religious and honeste which were moued to persequte S. Paul. There was nether trewe Religion nor honestie in them but so he calleth them because they were so estemed S. Paul also saithe off him selffe when he was the enemy off
and by the expresse mouthe off God I see not what man coulde put him owte off yt withowte the same authoritie whiche put him in Laste off all it is verie probable that vvhere yt is saide in an other place that Moses stood vp and praied for Aaron then Moses receiued answere what shoulde be doone withe Aaron towchinge his continuance in the ministerie Where yowr glosse in the ende supposeth contrarietie seinge yt settethe downe none I haue not to answere yt may be the A. lawghed vvhen he vvrote that vvherby he requireth sincere dealing in the scriptures For if this be sitting in his mouthe vvhich corrupteth in a manner all he toucheth vvhy should not also a light housewiffe talke of the chastitie off a graue matrone The nexte diuis belonging vnto the 6. Tract off vnpreaching ministers shall there God vvilling be answered Off election off Ministers vn voices or other consente off the people Chap. 4. pag. 155. IF Chrysostome had had anie thinge to saie towching the election off Deacons he shoulde haue spokē vvhen tyme was and when that place was handled Yet for answere the reader maye vnderstand that Chrysost in that place makethe comparison betwen the election in the firste off the Actes and this and sheweth howe the Apostels did otherwise there then here For there they chose two vvhiche they set vpp before the churche So that vvhen Chrysost saithe the Apostels myght haue chosen the deacons yt may be he meaneth they might haue chosen them as they did the two Mathias and Barsabas In whiche choise I haue shewed the consente off the people was required Yff there were but this place whiche the D. citeth I woulde stande vpon this answer but considering that Chrys in another place affirmeth that Peter might haue chosen him selfe which I would not kepe from the knowledge off the reader I will not denie but that Chrysost might haue heere the meaning the D. supposeth Wherto as I can by no meanes agree vpon the reasons both before and after alledged so the D. is not helped For when Chryso commendeth Peter that he did all thinges by the aduise off the churche nothing off his ovvne autoritie nothing vvith dominion When he addeth also that the same was to auoide contention and that nether he nor the reste off the Apostles should be thovvght to chuse off fauour he declareth sufficiently that there is no bishop of that ether authoritie or holines off life vvhich in making the election without consente of the church dooth not bothe laie him selfe and his ministery open to suspiciō of parcialitle and giue occasion off pernicious debates in the churche He shoulde also vnderstande that this proportion is vneuen and that if yt were granted whiche he desyrethe yet he is not where he woulde be For iff it were lawfull for the Apostels indued with extraordinarie giftes off discretion off spirites to chuse yt foloweth not therfore that one Bishopp may doo so And because yt was lawfull for the 12. Apostels to chuse them withe whome they were dailie conuersante therfore it is lawfull for one bishoppe to chuse those whiche he neuer see nor knewe before Before I goo any further yt is to be obserued that althowghe the Ans holde owte in the defense off this cawse off election by the Bishope certeine wordes of learned mē racked from their meaninge and contrarie to the continual practise off the authors yet the trwthe is that as this assertion is the Papistes and Papistes againste the Protestantes so all his principall bothe argumentes and solutions haue bene worde for worde ministred vnto him owte off the bokes off the ranckeste enemyes off the trwthe Yff the reader will see this question diducted at large betwene the catholikes and the papistes let hym reade Hosius and Phigius in thes bokes which I haue noted I will onely note the places whēce the Ans argumētes are fetched with his startinge holes vvherwithe he vvoulde abuse the worlde And firste off all Marsilius a Catholike whome the lorde had stirred vpp to mainteine the trwthe off the Gospell Aboute the time off Pope Iohn the 12. disputinge againste the sole election off the bishope vsethe this reason whiche wee haue heere in hande namelie that forasmuche as the churche chose here Deacons as it appearethe in the Actes therfore yt owghte muche more chuse her mynisters This reason Phigius as the D derideth no more hable to answer yt then he The manifeste wordes off the texte are that Paule and Barnabas ordeined elders by voces neither is there any learned and godlie man browghte or as Iam perswaded can be browghte that euer denied that the churches were in election off their ministers ioyned with Paul and Barn. That Zuingl saithe some were called to the ministerie off the worde by the Apostels onely what is yt to proue that Paule and Barnabas did here in this place ordeine myinisters withowte the voices off the churche yt is well therfore M Zuing. hath expressed whiche the D. hathe vnfaithfully holden backe who translatinge whole pages to no purpose coulde not here aforde vs one poore sentence off the lengthe off two lines The other halfe off the sentence is this As saithe he vvhen by the decree off the Apostels Peter and Iohn vvere sente vnto Samaria Marcke I beseche yow what manner of election this was The Apostels chose two but suche as were approued mynisters before what is this to proue that the byshope maie chuse those whiche were neuer approued or chosen vnto the ministrie The Apostels chose them to goe an embassage whiche shoulde be ended in a fewe daies and what is that to proue that a bishoppe maie chuse to a perpetuall function The Apostels did yt withowte the consente off that churche vnto whiche that matter did not belonge what is that to proue that the bishope maie chuse a minister withowte the consente off that churche whiche that election dothe concerne for that electiō belonged not vnto the churche of Ierusalem where they were if yt had there is no doubte but the Apostels woulde not haue doon yt withowte the cōsente therof I leue here to speake of the difference of bishop and Apostel off twelue and one whiche beinge obserued in the former section needeth no rehersall And as this maketh nothinge for the election off the bishope so yt maketh against that for the whiche this place is browghte For iff maister Zuing. had bene off that iudgemente that Paule and Barnabas did by them selues chuse withowte the churche he woulde likely haue browghte that example cōsideringe that this can not be properly called any election to the Mynistrie whiche was off those which were ministers before But that yow may yet better knowe the D. vnfaithfull dealinge ioined with shameles bouldnes off alledging authoritice I will set downe Maister Zwinglius iudgemente in this cause which he vttereth in diuers places off that booke owte off whiche the D. hathe alledged this but most manifestly within les
haue answered yt before There is nothinge so easie which is not harde to him that is vnwillinge And therfore the A as Salomons sluggard saith that the Lion whose delighte is in the foreste and in the wildernes is in the highe streat or in the burse that is to saie maketh difficulties wher none is And as this partly cometh of his vnwillingnes so diuers of thes questions if he doo not dissemble come of wante off knowledge not onely of the gouernemente of the churches nowe but off all aunciete tymes For he asketh who shall complaine off the faulte committed in the election to the churches by if the elders to vvhom that care especially apperteineth doo not others owght whō that disorder offendeth Ther needeth no callinge together and therfore no danger off tumulte disorder confusion charges partes takinge runninge vpp and downe losse off time offence quarels yt is enowghe that yt be doone by the eldership off the churches and if were needfull to haue the churches who le consente it might be doone in ordinarie meetinge for the seruice of god without anie of those things which the D. imagineth The churches maie admonishe by their seueral or cōmen letters emōgeste thē But aske me not who shall carie the letter what he shal haue for his paines whether he shal ride or goe a foote whiche yow might as well as those fonde questiōs which you haue moued It is meete the prouinciall Synodes be certeine and standinge as often also as maie be conueniently and it was ordeined as I thinke in one of the Africane Councels that their shoulde be at the leste twoo or three euery yeare So there shall be as spedie prouision off a pastor for the churche in suche cases off difference as now when they be without a pastor six whole monethes For the questions who shall summon the Synodes and in what place they shall be holden they perteine not to this questiō onles the A. will haue no Synodes at all for if he admitte them the sum̄oner and the place which are meete for the assemble generally and for the decidinge off all causes which fall into the consideracion off the Synod are meete also for this cause And where he asketh what if the prince doo not his dutie then yt is as if there vvere no godly magistrate then yt is vvith them as if suche a disorder shoulde happen vnder an vnchristian prince and then the people shall perishe in their sinnes but their bloud shall be required at his hand But still the A. seethe not how hee reasoneth againste hym selfe For if none of the bishoppes off the foresaide parishes none off the elders neither those bishoppes and elders vvhich emongeste the reste and in the name off all are chosen as the flowres oute of the prouince ād sente to the Synode nor the magistrate I saie if none off all thes nor all thes together doo their dutie how shall we thinke that the bishopp vvill doo it And iff hee doo yt in appoinctinge a fitt bishopp for the parishe and the parishe will not admitt him but take one vvhich is vnmeete off their owne choise what remedy hath he when he is forsaken off the magistrate Thus as shortly as I coulde I haue answered this legion off questions and if my answer in speakinge off thinges so commen be tedious take thy selfe good reader vnto the A. which merueileth at them as if they came oute off India Where he saithe I thus appointe the Prince a good office I haue shewed that the scripture appointeth yt and not I and it is the moste honorable office which the Prince can haue to see the churches be kepte in good order nether taketh yt any thinge from the royall estate that he muste obey and serue the lorde And where he saithe by this meanes the Prince muste stande and loke on all this while and in the ende laie to his hande I answer that wheras thes waies off admonition by the churches and Synode are sente before his authoritie yt serueth not onely for the ease off the magistrate whilest that after this sorte oftentimes the difference is ended before it come to him but also agreeth better with the maner off Phisicke which owght to be vsed in such diseases For that vvhich may be conueniently wonne vvith a vvorde shoulde not be gotten by the sworde and that vvhich maye begotten to bee doone with conscience shoulde not be essaied by compulsion Yowr slaunder that wee gyue no more to the cyuill magistrate then the papistes so often repeted is already and god willing shall be more apparante Yt is also a notable and an impudente slaunder that the Magistrate muste onely at the cōmaundemēt of the seniors execute suche lawes as they haue deuised wher as wee holde that if al the bishopes and elders in the realme woulde decree vnlawfull thinges the Prince owght to make them voide ād that he may ād owght to punishe all ecclesiasticall persons which walke disorderly Likewise yt is a fond dreame of surcharginge the Prince with thes matters as thowgh the Princes authoritie necessarily deriued vnto diuers in euery shire for other affaires off gouernment maie not likwise depart also this care vnto them Therfore if yow haue no better exceptiōs then these I am not afraied stil to cōmit my reasons to the iudgement not onely of the godly vvhich rest in authoritie of the word but euen off the wise ād reasonable man which maketh his account of likelihoodes THes highe wordes that he remembreth no learned writer new nor oulde which denieth that there were fewe professors of the gospell in the Apostels times in respecte off those professe nowe what haue they beside a crake And in respecte off the oulde writers yt is absurdly saide For howe coulde they compare the nomber of the professors of our times with those which were in the primitiue churches onles they shoulde prophecie seinge they were dead long before And maketh yt for yow if the newe writers doo not denie this Iff it he no good reason from the scripture negatiuely in those thinges which yt professeth to speake off is it good from other vvriters and frō one parte off them in thinges which they make no profession of ▪ I looked therfore yow shoulde haue browghtesome vvhich by affirming that yow saie mighte if not make it true yet at the leste seeme true I could off yowr chalenge take occasion to bringe all the peregrination off Sainct Paul declared in the Act. Epistles and especially in the 15. Rom. drawen to my hand by which appeareth that he for his parte onely had caused the Gospell to sounde in more then halfe off the worlde I coulde also fetche in Euseb and Ierome which testifie vvhat the other Apostels did for their parte I propounded that which I saide withoute proofe because the thinges are manifestly knowen and suche as can not be denied yow affirme withowte all proofe that in controuersie and wheruppon yowr cause in yowr
trifling questions here albeit moste vnworthy yet are answered almoste all before And if there were a legion moe they are not onely confuted in that this manner off election by the churche confirmed by the magistrate hath bene vsed more then â—00 yeares together but also by the D. owne wordes wherby he leaueth yt in the princes pleasure so to order yt still For if there were such incoÌ„ueniences and absurdities as he imagineth how hath the practise continued so longe bene thowght good by so many good Emperours and so many learned men in all those ages Or if all they were a sleap or of so shorte sighte that they could not see thes inconueniences which the D. hath espied how commeth yt to passe that he leaueth yt in the magistrates pleasure to establishe this order encombred with suche inconueniences and absurdities For the chalenges wherby he would giue to vnderstand that I haue not faithfully alledged Musculus the firste is that I affirme that he vvente aboute to defend the election vsed vvhere he vvas by this that it approched to the election of the primatiue church which he saith is vntrue But the reason wherwith I confirme yt that Muscu saithe yt vavs made not by one minister but by al by the voices of the Senate vvhere some nomber off the people vvere He toucheth not The second that I call the choise off the minister by the churche the Apostolicall forme yet they are not my wordes but Musculus his authors vvhich calleth yt the oulde the fytteste the deuine the Apostolicall and lavvfull election Where he saith that Musculus dooth not call the other elections forced I woulde gladly knowe what difference there is betwene forced and thruste vpon For Musculus in the same tytle maketh all one a mynister thruste vppon the church and a minister which is not chosen off the church in thes wordes The forme off election vsed in the Apostles times is conformable to the libertie and priuiledge off the church vvherof Cyprian made mention and that forme off choise vvherby men began to be thrust vppon the people off Christe being not chosen off yt dooth agree to a church vvhich is not free but subiecte to bondage Hetherto yt hathe appeared that although Musc Iudgement be not wholy for vs yet the reasons vvhich he alleadgeth for this cause are suche as can not be shaken Now I will further shew that as there is some disagreement betwene ours and his Iudgement so there is further distance betwene hym and the D. First therfore he saithe that as the election by the church endured vntill the time off Christian magistrates so the election made by the church and confirmed by the christian magistrate endured vntill that time that the bishoppe off Rome hauinge wronge owte both from the Emperour and the people their right in the election tooke it all to him selfe The D. denieth this stoutly Secondarily Musculus maketh the disorders off electioÌ„s by chusinge vnmeete persons or by corruption throwghe giftes or parciall fauour to beginne then especially when the election taken from the people cam into the bishoppe of Rome and his suffragans handes The D. cleane contrary that thes disorders were especially in the elections by the people and beste auoided when the election is called to the will and becke off one bishoppe Thirdly Musc maketh yt an vnlawfull forme off election when yt is made of the prince but maister D. saith that yt is in the princes powre to make election off ministers him selfe if he will or committe yt to others iff he liste Fourthly Musc helpinge him selfe off the authoritie off Ierome saith that there was no election in poperie becawse they were made without the knowledge off the people and condemneth also the election of the bishopes made by the Canons for the same cause But M. D. saith yt is a moste conuenient and sufficient election which notwithstandinge in that poincte is all one with the election in poperie Last off all wherin lieth a great weight of this controuersie he dooth not saie simply that this forme off choise by the church is vnmeete and inconuenient for this age off he churche but that it coulde not be by and by and out of hand restored and after a litle that it could not be in al churches by and by restored Wherby he gyuethe to vnderstand that in some places yt might be forthwith restored and in other all men owght endeuour to bringe yt in againe withall coÌ„uenient speed So appeareth that although Musculus be pretended yet Pigghius and Hosius be his storers Here cometh to shewe the manner off the election off the Tigurine churche wheron the D. heareth hym selfe so much vvhich as Bullinger whom he cyteth for his author reporteth is this After he had shewed that in all lawfull ministeries off the worde there is required that with innocencie of life he shoulde be learned then chosen accordinge to the worde off God thirdly after he is chosen and presented to the church haue imposition of handes he addeth Heruppon the Tigurine church hauinge taken her leaue off the inordinate ordination off the popishe bishoppe chuseth off the learned and off the ministers off the Senators and off the councell off the 220. that is to saie off the common people vvhich out off the learnedest and honestest deacons should present certeine that are to bee made Bishoppes vnto the Senate and people Off vvhich vvhen the Senate and people haue chosen one they sende him vnto the church ouer vvhich he is set and vvith him a counseiller vvhich doth commend him vnto his church Then the cheifest off the bishoppes off that citie or other place vvhere this nevve bishop muste be maketh a Sermon and in publike praier made off the church in this behalfe layinge on his handes commendeth the church vnto him Wherin howe many thinges are fauouringe our cause and openly fighting against the D. vppon that I haue before noted of the election of the churches of Berne I leaue to be considered ALthowghe the D. as his vse is speaketh off one thinge so often and that in the same diuision and with spaces put betwene so that yt is harde to giue answer with any conuenient vnderstandinge off the reader yet I will as well as I can referre his scattered sayinges to certeine heades Wheroff the firste is that he did not meane to proue by thes places off Timothe and Titus that the election belonged vnto one man Wheruppon he chargeth me with willfull deprauinge off his answer Yt muste be therfore considered if we maie holde this wett eele by the mouthe The Adm. saithe in the primitiue church no minister vvas placed in the congregation but by consente off the people but novve that authoritie is giuen to the bishoppes handes alone the D. answereth by the place off Timothe and Titus Now this beinge a commaundement and by his iudgement both directed onely to Tim. and Tit. and to them as bishoppes yt followeth
that he hath taught that Sainct Paule commaundeth that they and in them all bishoppes shoulde onely chuse Wherby are condemned all election by the church as those which haue intruded vppon the bishoppes possession Where he saith that the Adm. dothe coulorably affirme by thes wordes thautoritie is gyuen to the bishopp alone c. that the right off orderinge ministers doth at no hand apperteine vnto the bishopp I would knowe what word there is heere where this coulor is to bee seene aÌ„d what light he is able to giue vs to make yt appeare The other sentence wherwith he woulde proue yt followeth after nether was he come vnto yt Yf he did therfore confute that it is as straunge as iff a man shoulde shutte off and spende his arrowes or euer he come within the reach off his enemie And I thinke there is no example off suche confutation onles he had coupled that place with this and comparinge them together sett vpon them both at ones beside that it is Absurde that where the Adm. heere spake off the election he answereth off admission Here cometh to be considered the A. dealinge in the end off the booke where charged with vnfaithfullnes for that as in this place he would haue in synuated that the Adm. would haue the people chuse onely to proue hym selfe giltles he alledgeth a place of the Adm. wherin yt is said Then the election vvas made by commen consent off the vvhole church To this answer I repâ—lied that it was his ouersight that he tooke the people which is but a parte of the church to be al one with the church which is the whole coÌ„teininge as well gouernours of the church as the people in which replie the D. crieth owte off manifest falsification Why so forsooth because I lefte owte this worde whole that is to saie because I spared hym and kepte backe a peece of his folie and that with disaduantage off that which I pretended to proue For the word church simply set downe doth comprehended as well the gouernours as the people howe much more doth it comprehend them when this worde whole is added And if it were falsely concluded off him against the Adm. that they would haue the ministers to be called allowed and placed off the people because they saide that the election was made by commen consent off the church how much more is yt falsely concluded of thes wordes off the Adm. the election vvas made by consente off the vvhole church Thus appeareth that the D. together with his diuinitie seemeth to haue loste his commen sense yt is time therfore to carie him owte off the schole to some other place iff peraduenture by some sharper discipline he might gather vpp him selfe againe In the same place also vpoÌ„ that I shewed that in proper speach the church and people differed hauing there declared that difference to be in that the church is the whole and the people a parte theroff â–ª this complainer off falsificatioÌ„ saithe that I seeme to seperate the people from the election of the ministers for that I will not haue the worde church in the Adm. comprehend the people which is manifestly againste that I set downe For I precisely reprehended hym for that vppon the worde church vsed off the Admon he woulde haue mainteined his false insinuation againste them that the election should perteine to the people onely consideringe that the word church cited off him was the vvhole and the people one parte and necessarily comprehended vnder it This is not onely falsifyinge but flat facynge Nowe to retourne backe I aske what he needed twife in this diuision in so many and greuous wordes complaine off corrupte dealinge seinge him selfe flatly affirmeth asmuch as I saie of him and otherwise caÌ„ not mainteine his cause The truth is that he absteined then from the wordes electinge and onely bycause he sawe he had nothinge to mainteine them which nowe by my replie he was driuen to put downe or els to forsake his cawse Wherin as he dissenteth from the trwth so he is driuen to haue a newe combat with him selfe in that he heere maketh yt indifferent and at the discretion of the church in tyme of persequution to make elections ether by one or by the multitude which is contrary to that he hath before in thes wordes Lastly in time of persequution when they haue no magistrate they be all equall nether is one bound to obey another by any ciuill lawe none hath cheiff and especiall care ouer the reste as magistrate to compell wherfore yt can not be otherwise then but that such offices should be chosen by common consente Where he alledgeth Zuing. and Bull. owt of place and contrary to the title of his chap. to proue the callinge of certeine by one Apostle because they be Euangelistes vvhich wee haue no vse off and for that I haue shewed that they both are clearly of this Iudgement that the minister owght to be chosen with consent off the church I will not much busie my selfe with this matter But althowgh the Apostles did send thes Euangelistes off their Embassages to knowe howe the churches did and such lyke thinges as required no tariance nor execution off any set ministrie in the churches wherunto they where sent yet that they euer set them to rule any congregation by their priuate autoritie is not to be estemed wheroff this is an apparant reason that Timothe was not set ouer the church off Ephesus by Saint Paule onely seinge that Paule confesseth that he receiued imposition off handes by the eldership Thother also here mentioned beinge Euangelistes it is like the order vsed in one was in thother Nether doo the wordes I lefte the at Creta proue it for he doth not saie that he ordeined him and if he had yet it muste be vnderstanded that he did ordeine him as he had doone in other churches with consente off the church And that this is not my iudgement yt maie appeare by that I haue alledged owt off Caluine and Musculus in the former booke aÌ„d Bez. in this nether could Bull. be thought to haue here such meaniÌ„g as the D. giueth him that the Apostles alone should sett ouer the churches ministers as appeareth by that I haue alledged So that onles he will make Bullinger contrary vnto him selffe thes wordes that Paule and Peter called certeine can not be vnderstanded off placinge them ouer any congregation no further then being cheife in that action they directed the iudgemeÌ„t of the churches there remaineth zuinglius which I meruaile the D. will charge me with seinge he himselffe will not stande to him in the place which he hath alledged For that which he hath lefte owt off Mathias chosen by the vvhole church is directly againste that which he hath in diuers places before affirmed After many vaine wordes againste the replie vnto the places off Timothe as that it is against thauthoritie off learned writers against the whole course off
is a popishe shifte as I haue shewed sufficiently before confuted yt hath no grounde in the vvorde testimony wherout he woulde pull yt For by a fygure off metonymy he noteth the peoples voice because by giuinge it they gaue also testimony what they the wght off him Where it is to be noted that the D. giueth no more to the churche off God then S. Paul giueth to straungers froÌ„ yt of whom he willeth that the bishop shall haue a good report There followeth the open violence doone vnto August wordes Where first let the reader obserue againe that this wresting of the example of Eradius against the election of the church was taken from Pighius as appeareth manifestly But for answer vnto Pigbius and the D. it muste be vnderstanded how for that election of Eradius to be bishop after August decease there were assembled two bishopes besides August 6. Elders beside Eradius with the reste of the clergie and people For what purpose all thes if it were in Augustines powre to choose onelie After yt appeareth that Augustine did call the people to haue there consente because he had experience off trouble and discontentement of the people off Millen for that Seuerus the bishop there did appoincte his successor before his death withowte speakinge any thinge theroff vnto them vvhich could not be auoided off Augustine if he mente to chuse any againste the will off the people For yt had bene better for him to haue appoincted one as Seuer us did vvithowte communicatinge the matter vnto them then in communicatinge yt to take one againste their willes Againe where the D. vppon those wordes I vvill haue Eradius my successor woulde haue that Augustine onely had the election off him he is coÌ„futed by and by after with his owne wordes I saie that I vvill haue him because I knovve that yovv vvill haue him And after he vvilleth that the publike notories shoulde as vvell note their voices as his vvill in this matter that saith he your consentes fall not to the grounde or become voide Wherunto also pertaine the subscriptions of them which folowed Which althowgh the D. saith are referred onely vnto the peticion off Augustine to be discharged off the hearinge off ciuill matters yet the wordes sounde otherwise For when he required their subscription to those Actes yt is cleare that he muste be vnderstanded to haue spoken off both those matters otherwise he woulde haue required subscription to that Acte and not vnto the Actes And where in the ende for an other reason he addeth Augustine was appointed bishope when Valerius bishope off Hippo was a liue I see not howe it maketh for him one word For if he think that Valerius off his Authoritie did it he is vtterly deceiued seing Possidonius writeth that Valerius spake vnto the people to prouide and to ordeine an elder off the cytie and sheweth how he was ordeined by the consente off all the people Which thinge yff it were not more lighter then the none daies off this Epistle off August yet yt mighte appeare by other as where he declareth that Pinianns was ordeined off the people elder off the church againste his will. moe might be alleadged but thes shall suffyse Sauinge that I muste put Maister D. in remembrance howe he merueilously forgetteth him selfe For grauntinge me before that the councell off Carthage wherat Augustine was presente decreed that the election shoulde be made by the commen consente off the people clerkes and bishopes in the same prouince he must heere needes confesse that ether Augustine did there ioine together in election with the church and the clergie as they terme them or that he brake the order off the Councell which could not be vvithowt his fault although the election off the church had bene as the D. esteemeth yt but a thing indifferent And the truth is yt appeareth that August had in that election an expresse regard vnto the decree off the councell which caused him beside the eldership off the church and people to send for two other bishops to be assistants Wherupon the reader may see how there is no light off wordes so cleare which Phighius and the Ans misled will not giue thâ—nser to darcken Besides that Ambrose calleth yt a diuine election which is made by the church which he could not onles yt were by the institution off God the whole discourse off the Epistle teacheth that the election off the people is there accounted off as necessary For when the church off Vercella did linger the time in not chusing a bishop vvhen it vvas also infected vvith Heretickes vvhy did not Amb. at least by vvay off Lapse take the election vnto him self but vvriteth vnto them reprehending them that they did not aske for a bishop as other churches were vvont to doo Gregor Nazienz speaking there off diuers elections vvherin still the people bore one part and that withowt controlement speaketh more for that election in that one place then the D. hath hitherto or in the residue of his treatise is able to shew And where he might seeme to haue somewhat nipped at it in shewing how at certeine elections some off the people were contentious he healeth that euen in the next sentence to this saying that at that time it was to be feared lest he ovvght to iudge the popular regiment better ordered then their ovvne and after maketh mention off the corruption off those which were fellow elders vvith his father but obserue I pray yow againe the D. faith fulnes which expouÌ„deth the worde churches the clergy Where learned he thus to expound Let it be that as in the scripture sometime so in the auncient fathers the eldership off a church is called by the name off church where can he euer shew that the eldership or as he termeth it the clergy of one onely church vvherof Greg. speaketh is called by the name off churches In steed therfore that he should haue translated both the richer and they off great authority in the church vvere cleane from that euill he hath translated the churches that is to say the clergy c taking the nominatiue plurall for the genitiue syngular Which although in the latin toung if one take not heed vnto the sense may deceiue yet vvhen the D. had the Greeke which hath off the church before him as it seemeth by cyting the greeke in the same place by and by after ether he vnderstood it not or willingly peruerted the meaning So I leaue to the reader whether I haue reasoned to the pourpose or no and whether yow besides wordes haue any thing at all As in certeine other places so in this in steed off that I should haue taken the quotacion which came after I taking the quotacion in my paper booke which went before was deceiued and for the 6. and 7. of Socrates set downe the 6. and 7. of Eusebius This verely is the error which the D. maketh so
great triumphes of For the first off the places it appeareth how Chrysost there called Iohn elder of the church of Antioche was chosen bishop of Constantinople by cōmē voice of all both people and clergy and how he had his election ratified by the Emperour Arcadius For the seuēth booke yt appeareth that Chrysanthus was chosen bishop off Costantinople by the people And when as Sabbatius because Chrysanthus hid himself and would haue none off the bishopricke gat certeine bishops to ordeine him into yt the story sheweth how the people sowght Chrysanthus owt and put owt Sabbatius diuers other exāples there be which I leaue as I would also haue doon thes if it had not bene to haue shewed the vaine triumphes off the D. And where he saith that there is nothing in those 6. and 7. of Euseb which maketh mentiō of any electiō by the people but in one onely which he goeth about to wipe a way that thow maiest know the D. changeth not his skin I will note them in a word To leaue therfore the election made by reuelation where he saith the election was made by the ministers and pastors yt is manifest that the churches had to doo in the electiōs For in the indorcemēt of the letters wherby an other was appointed at Antioche into Samosatenus roume as well autority off the churches is pretended as off the bishops elders and deacons Where also he would clude the other place firste because it was a miracle then for that by the word brethren it is not certeine whether the people were noted for the first yt may appeare how vaine yt is seing the story saith the brethren came together to chuse a bishop The miracle therfore which came vnloked for off them and after they were assembled was to direct them in their election and not to authorise them to chuse For autority they had before els they would not haue come together for that purpose As for the other it is a boldnes too insufferable withowt shewing any one exāple and contrary both vnto the phrase off the scripture and aucient fathers shewed in my former booke and off Eusebius him self as may appeare diuers times in some one chapter In all thes sentences set downe owte of Euseb there is not a worde for the D. nor againste vs The D. cōsesseth that Origine tawght beinge a laie man in the church publikely he can not denie if he woulde but that he tawght by the appointment off bishoppes Thes two beinge put what followeth but that in those daies he was counted a laie man which toke vppon him the ministerie vppon the bishoppes appoinctinge onelye And that he abuse not his reader with such rouinge treatises my reson I will set downe in a fewe wordes That appointement vnto the ministrie which was thowght not to inhable to be minister was thowght insufficient but the appointement off the bishops onely was thowght not to inhable to be minister for Origene that had that appoinctement and authoritie vvas still coumpted a laie man therfore that authoritie onely was then thowght insufficient Eusebius therfore giuinge me this houlde which the D. is driuen vvhether he will or no to confesse ▪ there is wherwith to vpholde that I haue saide For if the bishops appointment off Origine to preach did not gyue him any degree in the ministrie for what cawse did it not except yt be it at I haue assigned his trāslatiō of Euse words whē he was yet not ordeined minister wherin another point off this matter standeth is not warrāted For by this means he must take one of his wordes which properly signifieth the choise by lifting vp and vsed sometimes of eccesiasticall writers for laying on of hands for a degree which hathe no example Likewise he must take the other vvhich I haue shewed to signifie the company of all the gouernours off the church for the office off one onely elder which wanteth proofe Beside that Muscul which translateth yt semeth to haue folowed the sence I haue where if he had folowed the D. he would haue doone otherwise For in steed of he had not appoinctmēt of the eldership he would haue saied the degree of an elder Where he alledgeth that Demetrius suffred hym to teach at Alexandria when he was a laie man belike therby to proue that the reprehension of Demetrius was not to be regarded which did himselfe that he found faulte with in other yt maketh nothinge to this question For yt is enowghe to that in hande that yt is confessed bothe by Demetrius and Eusebius Which taketh the defense off those whom Demetrius rebuked that Origene was a laie man althowghe appoincted to the preachinge off the vvorde by the Bishops Whether yt be lawfull for a laie man to teache the worde off God in publike place is an other question The nexte sect I leaue to the iudgmente of the reader Of this greate heape which foloweth the moste parte haue bene broughte before some foure times at the leaste they haue bene thresshed and there is no yelde it shal be seen that the rest are no better then their fellowes the places off scripture alledged heere are all answered sauing onely that of the Actes 13. which is borrowed of Hosius who vseth this place againste the choise by the church For answer wherunto I saie that it is nor question there off such election as wee spake off that beinge the election off God and not off the church I for my parte rather thinke that it was the voice off God by the Prophetes or one off the prophetes and for proofe alledge the storie in the Crome which may be cōmētary to this For as the church thē in distresse by publike praier and faste receiued comforte throwghe a Prophet whom the Lorde sodenly in the myddeste off the congregation raised amongeste them euen so the church off Antioche beinge in great distresse and feare off ruine off the church off God partly by the sworde and famine partly by contentions and serchinge remedy by puhlike praier and faste receiued by a Prophet which the lord stirred vpp amongeste them this oracle wherby he shewed them a singular meanes not onely to mainteine but to amplifie the borders off the kingdome off Christe If the S. will not receiue this interpretation but take the holy gost to haue sounded immediatly from heauen yet it helpeth him nothing there was no place lefte for any election but needes muste Paule and Bar. besent Iff therfore the bishop haue the spirite off prophecie at any time wherby he may haue such a certeine and vnfallible direction as this was wee will les sticke with him for his sole election Iff not yt is in vaine to alledge this example sauinge that it maketh much againste him For if the lorde woulde haue the approbation off the whole companie of Doctors and elders in that election vvhich him selfe had made and vvhere there was no daunger off error howe
much more owghte the bishops election which hath so manie bankes both off ignorance and euill conscience to put him from the waie of a good election be susteined by the iudgement off others And yt ys vntrwe that it is plaine that the church was heere shut forth For althowgh yt was nether in the ministers powre nor the peoples to chaunge this election yet the faste there mentioned beinge generall and the accoumpte off their embassage and successe therof beinge afterwarde made vnto the churche yt is not vnlike but in the approbation which that election coulde admit the church also had her parte That which is heere added owte off Beza vvhich the D. woulde haue so diligently noted is but to vvaste paper For vvee holde that it is moste conueniente the people shoulde haue the ministers and elders goe before and directe them in their elections But yt is moste directly againste the D. For therby appeareth that Beza is off that minde that althowgh the people be ignorant and vntractable yet they owght not to be cut of from ecclesiasticall electiōs but directed and called to some moderation Off that which remaineth in this diuision the canons called the Apostels that off Antioche Eusebius and others which speake off ordeining make nothing to this question which is off election consideringe that yt hath bene shewed not onely that ordinacion differeth from election but also that the councells from time to time haue confirmed the election by the churches So that iff there haue bene any elections made by the Bishopes alone they haue bene directly contrary to the tenure of the councelles In the councell off Nice althowgh his boldnes be greater then in the other canons hauing chaunged the wordes off the councell and in steede off ordinacion put election yet hath he no more warrant off the wordes off that canon then off the others And albeit the generall answer is more then sufficient to resiste suche naked assertions yet euen in this councell it is manifestly to beshewed that that canō is to be vnderstāded of ordinacion as it is distinguished from election For in the letters which the Synode off Constantinople wrote vnto the councell holden at Rome yt is thus written Touching the care off the gouernement off euery church yovv knovv that the oulde decree and appointement of the fathers off the Nicene councell hath preuailed from time to time that the inhabitants in euery prouince taking to them if they vvill and if yt be profitable those vvhich are next adioining should make the elections According to the tenure vvherof vnderstand yovv that the residue of the churches vvith vs are gouerned VVherupon vve haue in our generall councell set our bishopp off Constantinople Nectarius in the sight off the Emperour Theodosius and clergy off that citie the vvhole citie giuing theyr voices therunto And so goeth forward with the election off the bishop off Antioche and confirmacion off the bishop off Ierusalem Where yt appeareth manifestly not onely that the ordinacion gyuen by that canon to the bishop did not shut owt the election off the people but that yt implied necessarily an election by the people and clergy ioined with yt For the Synode saith that those elections vvhich vvere made by consent of the church vvere made according to the decree off the Nicene councell And if it should be as the D. pretendeth that the councell off Nice ment to gyue the whole interest off election vnto the bishops and to take yt from the church then coulde not that councell haue saied that they made the Nicene councell the squire off their elections when they admitted the suffrages off the people And that there be no doubt heroff I will set downe the wordes off the councell off Nice which are these Let the people chuse and the bishop approue and seale vp the election vvith them For Gratians distincions vvith his glosse first them selues gyue me defense enough against all the force wherwith they assaile this cause as when he saith that the other priestes vnder degree off a bishop may be ordeined off their ovvne bishop so that both the citisens and the rest off the priestes gyue their assent And the glosse vpon the second canon off that distinction saying the Bishop alone may gyue the degree vnto priestes addeth alone that is to say vvithovvt other bishopps Then I coulde oppose the authoritie off Illyricus which sheweth plainly that the wordes cited owt off the 63. distinction by the D. be a mere lie off Gratian. Howbeit I will not gyue ether Gratian or his glosse that honour as once to vouchesafe hym off any answer in the church of god And that thow maiest know good reader what maner of man he was of vvhom the D. plunged seeketh helpe vvith commendation also of his interpretation euen where it is condemned off protestantes writers off our time as heere thow seest and further shall appeare I will in a word aduertise the. That whether he vvere the brother off Lombard tharchepiller of Antichristes seat borne with a third brother of a strompet as they write vvhich couer the shame of his birth or Lombardes bastard conceined by a Nun which by reuelation accompanied her selfe vvith Lombard vvhether so euer I saie he vvere off thes this is certeine that in gatheringe the canons off the councelles he endeuored by mighte and maine to make them agree vvith the Patrone off the adulterous church off Rome Therfore in goynge aboute to reconcile thee gouernemente off the elder churches off Christe vvith that vpstarte Synagogue off Antechriste as yt vvere to make accorde between the owle and the rauen there is no kinde of false dealinge nether in addinge changinge dimynishinge false interpretinge nor other corruptions and that contrarie to the cleare lighte off wordes controrolmente off recordes extante to confute him wherin he hath not caried awaie the bel of vnshamfastnes from all that euer wrote before him or in his time Off thes corruptions there are almoste as many both vvitnesses and gath erers off our owne cotrey men and of others as haue at any time bene exercised in this fielde off confutation off the popishe religion As for his glossers as the Popes hyred seruantes such as flattered for a cruste off breade sayinge yea to his yea and nay to his nay they shall goe to gether with their maister And let euen this place of the D. befor a sey off the glosses impudencie in expounding Leos wordes For where Leo speakinge of electiō setteth forth the intereste of the churches with all thes wordes that the minister ovvghte to be chosen by the consente off the people by the voices off the people by their good vvilles and that none be ordeined vvhich they desyre not vvhich they vvishe not for vvhich they require not all thes wordes this good glosse bringeth me vnto this that the people shoulde onely gyue testimonie off his good behauiour vvhich is before confuted And if he saie here
that I deale not equally which barre him off that authoritie that I haue sometimes vsed my selfe ▪ he owghte to remember that a foreine testimonie and witnes off an enemie is glorious and that I hauinge vvarre in thes questions off the discipline not onely vvith him but with the Papistes mighte with commendation strike the◠thinges with their owne sworde which he hauinge herin the same cause vvhich they haue can not doo That which is gathered off Ambroses election owte off Theodorete is moste vntrwe ▪ for yt is manifeste that Ambrose was chosen by the whole church off Mylane and neuer a vvord to proue that the Byshops had the righte off election but the contrarye by the wordes and circumstances off the storie And wheras vppon the bishoppes offer vnto the Emperour to appointe one the D. woulde make the intereste of election a runninge and walkinge righte firste as the emperours gaue vnto the bishoppes thinges vvhich vvere vnmeete for them so yt was no meruaile if the bishops sometimes offred vnto the Emperours that vvhich perteined not vnto them Which may well appeare there by the answere off the good Emperour which refused yt as a thinge vvhich he had not to doo with and vnmeete for him Secondly yt is very like that for the diuersities of iudgementes vvhich vvere emongeste the people the bishoppes perceiuinge that they shoulde run into displeasure off one off the parties woulde haue bene glad to shifte off that euill will and lay yt on the Emperour which was better hable to beare it last of all they offred the Emperour that which he willed them to doo which vvhen yt was to ordeine onely as the issue declared and not to chuse the churches election can be by no meanes preiudiced in that offer off the bishops As for Chrysostomes 3. booke de Sacerdotio besyde that I doubte not but if yt had any thinge of Valewe for yow yow would alledge yt yt is the same authoritie which Hosius alledgeth and alledgeth in grosse as the D. doth againste the churches election To the D. firste reason againste the churches election vvhich standeth in that there haue bene great contentions and diuersitie off myndes amongeste the churches I answer that the Apostles vvhen there fell a contention and a iarr amongest those off the church neuer entred into any such deliberation off cuttinge awaye the churches libertie contrariwise they estemed the neareste waie to heale vppe the breach to gyue them some thinge more in that election off Deacons then was ordinarie For where they were accustomed to shew the way in other elections and by ripenes off their iudgemente helpe the weaknes off the People there they suffring the church to goe before folowed with their approbation And not onely in respecte off that election but if a man will consider the vvhole estate off the primatiue church in the Apostles time it shall appeare plainly that if there were euer good cause to take away the churches election throwgh contentions and diuersities off mindes that was in the Apostles times For the churches off God then almoste throwghowt the world standinge of Iewes and gentils and there beinge such a naturall hate betweene those two peoples as vvhatsoeuer the one woulde the other commenly vvoulde not and contrarywise if the Apostles had iudged that for reason vvhich the D. estemeth highe vvisdome they shoulde neuer haue permitted any election vnto the churches For albeit the knittinge off both those peoples into one profession off the gospell did mortefy that deadly hatred which was naturally in thē yet notwithstandinge yt appeareth by diuers places off the scripture that there vvere such remnantes off that hatred lefte that nether the Apostles them selues which were so vvise peace makers and so kunninge tiers off loue knotes nor yet the ministers and elders which had receiued the firste fruictes off the spirite off God coulde kepe them from moste daungerous contencions And Maister Zuinglius off vvhom the D. woulde seeme to receiue some succour in this cause euen when their churches were moste dangerously infected with Anabaptistry and many nourished it in wardly vvhich durste not vtter it openly teacheth that this forme off choise by the churche was to be kepte Nether is it to bee passed by that Basil noteth that one Anthimus in choosinge a bishop withowt the churches voices filled all Armenia vvith sedition Whervnto add the testimonie off Chrysostome where he askinge vvhy Peter communicated the election vvithe the Disciples answereth leste the matter shoulde be tourned into a bravvle and haue fallen to a contention When he assigneth the cause off contention cleane contrarie to the D. that the election was not communicated with the church Secondarily iff the churches elections shoulde be taken awaie because off cōtentions which happen in them Monarchies which oft haue declyned into tyrānie and bene abused to oppression off the subiectes shoulde haue had an ende long a goe and other such moste lawfull and necessarie aides off this present life owghte to be taken awaie as those which are abused And to come to ecclesiasticall affaires councelles by the D. reason owght to haue no place in the churches off Christe off which it is saide that there was neuer seen good issue of them and that throwgh merueilous ambition and desyre off contention in them thinges ovvte off order vvere not remedied but made vvorse Thirdly the examples off the contentions which the D. hath heaped vpp to gether beside that they are in parte not off the churche with yt selfe but off the church with hererickes which is her commendation as in the election off Ambrose beside that also it is noted specially that the people off Alexandria was off a Mutinous and stirring nature and therfore vniustly obiected againste the whole estate of the church beside this I saie thes examples alledged by the Answ are so farre from weakeninge the churches election that they make yt stronger For notwithstandinge those contentions had vnder bothe Christian magistrates and Bishops there was not onely no counseill taken to barre the churches off their election but were as hath bene shewed councells from time to time to ratifie yt And if the Emperours and Bishops had not thowght yt necessary that the churches shoulde haue intereste in their elections or had thowght as the D. that bothe the churches were put in hasarde of false teachers and the commenwealth off vprores by reason off popular elections yt had bene greate folie or madnes rather to haue suffred that which they mighte haue so easelie remedied Which opinion off the necessitie off the churches interest as yt hath appeared by diuers examples before alledged so maie it clearly be seene in the letters off the good Emperour Constantine to the Cytisens off Nicomedia which althowghe they had chosen to his great greife one Eusebius Bishop dooth not therfore take awaie the election from them but moueth to a newe And albeit they had abused their righte in
chusing such a one as was an Arian a runnigate from his former bishoppricke a railer of the Emperour yet he confesseth still that yt belonged vnto them to make a hewe election Fourthly what will he say to that that the people bridled the rage of the scribes and pharises againste the truth and ministers theroff in that they were a fraide off them that the Bishop off the church being an Arrian the people haue bene for the most parte Catholike That also the Emperour hath displaced the catholike bishop chosen by the church ād placed an Arian Which disorders beinge often cōmitted by the Bishops maie by the D. rule as well depriue them of their intereste in ordering and confirming as the people in chosing What also that the euill disposition off the people hath for the moste parte proceded off the mouing off their euill gouernours So that people diuers times good when the rulers were naughte hath bene seldome naughte whē their gouernours were good besides all this there are other faultes off Symonie off choise off moste dissolute and most vnlearned ministers wherwith the sole election off the bishops is so infamous and the churches election scarsly to be touched with that many contentions off the people woulde drawe les blould off the churche then the choise onely off one suche blinde and lame minister as many off the assemblies off the bishoppes for that purpose sende forthe by whole armies Laste all as in other reasons before I haue shewed that the D. defendinge the same cause which the Papistes vseth the very selfe same armour bournished by the names off Zuinglius Caluin Beza c. so here he hath the very selfe same reason which the Papistes vsed for the bishoppes sole election wherunto Caluin maketh answer For vnto the Papistes sayinge that the people were shut forthe because off the contentions and tumultes which happened often times he answereth confessing there were such motions and sturres but that the taking awaie off the churches electiō was browght in for a remedy against those sturres he affirmeth to be a plaine lie and sheweth that there were other waies to meete with those disorders as to punishe them which should moue any tumult And so goeth forward in shewinge the trewe cawse off the falling awaie off this libertie from the churche To all the reste off his reasons I haue answered before at large sauinge that he hath embossed owte this laste with a sentence off Chrysostome vpon Iohn drawen from Hosius who vseth this testimonie againste the election of the churche Where both Hosius and the Ans shoulde haue learned to haue put a difference betwene a confused multitude and the church off god For I woulde aske off Hosius howe shamles so euer he be whether he dare define the church off God which is the spouse and body off Christe to be a certeine thinge full off tumulte and sturres consistinge ad rashly compacted for the moste parte of folie c. and yet ether the answer is not afraied to saie that this is the difinition that is to saie the very nature and vnchangeable propertie of the church off God or els if he vnderstand yt of some other companie he hath saide nothinge againste the election off the church And verely I can not see howe he coulde speake more vilely of the moste disordred rowte off moste godles people then he semeth to doo off that assemblie vvhich beinge indewed with the wisdome of the moste higheste he calleth a thing consistinge off folies and which beinge the piller off trewth he lykeneth vnto waues off the sea By which symilitude the scripture setteth forthe the estate of the reprobate or at leaste off the wicked vvhich haue as yet no societie with our Sauiour Therfore to conclude seinge that the election off the churche in her ministers hath grounde owt off the worde off God both in commaundement and continuall practise both in the olde Testamente and in the newe consydering also it hath allowance off commen reason the approbacion off all times after the Apostles as longe as ther was any sinceritie in peace and perquution both by councells and Emperours decrees both by godly writers ancient and off our time and considering he hath not so much as browghte an example to the contrarie owte off any auror and if he coulde yet the same is condemned not onely by the worde off god but by continuall good harmonie off councells one in the necke of another diuers 100 yeares and forasmuch as the Ans hathe this question of election by the bishope onely commen with the Papistes and hathe had both sworde and buckler ministred him owte off the moste grosseste Papistes I conclude that both the church owghte to haue her consente in the election off her ministers and that the sole autoritie off bishops creating ministers is vnlawfull Vnto this question off election and ordination belongeth the 2. chapter of the 4. tract of ceremonies in ordeining off which the 2. Diuision beinge answered and the first and third vnworthy of answer there remaineth onely the fowrth Againste that he alledgeth that the bishop mighte as well say receiue the holy goste to the ministers made by him as to vse the wordes off the Lordes supper I replied that there was a commaundement for the one and not for the other wherunto he saith that there is no speciall commaundement Which is no answer For if the generall commaundement off kepinge that whole institution doo comprehende this beinge aparte theroff then the argument standeth That he bringeth off the minister sayinge withowt inconuenience This is my bodie and in recitall off the commaundementes thow shalte haue no other god but me is nothing worthe seinge the inconuenience is taken away by preface off God spake thes vvordes Christe tooke bread c. The place of Timothe vvith Maister Caluins expositiō is vtterly impertinent For it is not question whether God doth gyue his giftes to them which he calleth or no but vvhether he giueth them by this means of sayinge receiue c. where he saith that the Apostels when they laide on their hands likely vsed thes wordes it is vntrwe considering that Saincte Luke pursuing the leste of those ceremonies which were vsed made no mencion off it being in the D. iudgement worthiest off all other to be followed And if they had vsed yt yet yt folowed not that the bishops maie doo it considering that it was proper onely to the Apostles to giue the giftes off the holy goste by layinge on off handes Where he saith that Christe commaundinge the sea to be quiet and breathing vppon his disciples confirmed his diuinitie I answer that he did the same in commaunding to receiue the holy goste which otherwise he woulde haue praied for as at other times when he gaue testimonie off his humanitie Caluin althowgh he vse not the same example yet vseth the like when he compareth the imitation off thes wordes receiue the holy goste with those being saide
he hath off one vvhen that one is able to mainteine him and his familie honestly he answereth not yet was it necessary to be answered considering that therby the peinting of that Zeale vnder pretence whereoff they spred their nettes ouer so many churches is washed away Where he accuseth me whotly other of deceiuing or being deceiued in that the Councell off Nice is put withowt the addition off Second wherby yt might be seuered from the purer Councell off Nice I can not precisely say whether the leauing owt off Second were my fault or the fault off some other but that I meant to deceiue none there be which can witnes by that that in the second edition howsoeuer yt was omitted I gaue a note wherby that should be corrected His reasō wherwith he would proue that I ment to abuse the reader for that I set it before Damasus is to friuolous considering that that conterfeict Damasus mentioned in the first Tome off councels was not before this second Councell and yt is not vnwonted to put the iudgemēt off a councell before that off a particular person As for the corruption off the Councell I haue shewed how that maketh more against the D. then if the testimonie had been fetched from the first Councell And where he saith the Councell ment that one should not haue permitted vnto him moe great cyties then one yt is a shameles corruption off the minde off the Councell Considering that the drift theroff is that one should not haue more to liue one then is needfull to mainteine him self competently and therfore is cōtent as it were to wincke at those which are placed in poore churches not able to mainteine their Pastor albeit it inclineth rather to this that he should supply that which is wanting by some honest occupation That he addeth that Gratian him self doth so expound it all men vnderstand how vnsauourly yt is spoken As yf it were any meruaile that Gratian so expounded yt which is knowen to be an open corrupter off the Councels and manifestly in this point off hauing many benefices not onely in this councell but in that off Calcedon For where the Councell decreed that no man might be ordeined in tvvo cyties he doth impudently dally with it saying he may be notvvithstanding Archebishop of one cytie and bishop of an other prouided that he enioy the one as intituled to yt and the other by vvay off commendation Which is but a toy to mock an ape As if a man should say that yt were not lawfull to haue two wiues at ones but yet he might haue two weomen one vnder the title off a wife an other of a lem̄end This interpretation off the Councell is yet made worse by the D. for he addeth that a Pastor may not be ordeined in moe great cities then one as thoug the Councell would permit one to be ouer diuers small cyties The proofe browght by the Councell that euery one ovvght to tary in that vocation vvherin he is called is fit The reason against yt that the Apostle speaketh off the kinde off vocation and not off the place is fonde as thowgh yt were not a mannes calling to doo that he hath to doo in one certein place or as thowgh yf the soldier or embassadour commaunded to serue in one place serue in an other he offended not against this rule off the Apostle Where fault is found that I set downe councels in the plurall numbre alledging but one he dealeth very streightly which will not suffer me to speake as other doo but that there may be councels let him learne that the same was decreed in the councell off Toledo Wherunto I ioyne Maister Hopers iudgement which saith that no man off vvhat giftes soeuer may haue tvvo liuinges and therfore he is not so much a shepherd which hath many flockes as the D. saith as a theef seing not able to doo the office of a Pastor towardes them he pilleth them Towching Damasus that his pourpose was nothing les then to condemne idle bishops him selfe idlest off all shal be seen in an other place when yt shall appeare that he had no good meaning in thes wordes Notwithstanding the comparison which likeneth the Pastors that put ouer their charge vnto harlots that gyue their children to other to nourse that they may sooner gyue them selues to lust being apt I tooke as a good stone set in an euill place In the next diu the first part that it is better that one should haue diuers flockes then any be vntawght is answered in that yt is both better that one church be sufficiently fed then all insufficiently and it is alledged before and after how the want off preachers is in part becawse they are not sought after in part because they are driuē owt which were placed The other part is also answered All the Answer witnesses browght in to proue that Denis the Monkish pope fyrst deuided parishes and Dioceses are suspected Polidore whom he hath chosen to speake in the name off the rest doth as the D. hym selfe hath doon falsifie the wordes off the Monke Considering that he saith not that he appointed dioceses but parishes and churche yardes onely making no mention off dioceses Wherupon the Canonistes them selues say that boundes off bishoprickes were deuided long before Both which opinions shall appeare more at large to be false where I shall shewe God willing by what practises the bishoppes stretched owt their armes so far Afterward the man in going abowt to shew mine proclaimeth his owne ignorance For where he saith ther was no limitation off place in the Apostles tyme he is greatly deceyned For beside that there is almoste in euery story before the Apostles often mention off prouinces wherinto the gouernementes were deuided Cicero maketh mention off the diuision off prouinces into dioceses The Romans likewise before the Apostles had their Curias the same with the greeke word wherof our word parish is taken Also towching the very word parish by that Eusebius reciteth owt off Apolonius a Senator off Rome who liued about the yeare off our Lord 180. of Montanus vvhich could not be receiued not so much as of his ovvne parish vvhence he vvas yt appeareth that it was both in vse and in the same signification that we take yt long before Denis off whom the D. would father this diuision off Parishes was bishop So yt is manifest thes diuisions were before the Monkes tyme yea before the Apostles time And where he saith all men may know that limitation off Parishes and dioceses could not be made but off men in authoritie and theruppon concludeth that it could not be made by the Apostles yt is very true towching the precise limitacion but how is he so blinded that he can not also therby see that yt is an idle dreame that he so greatly stryueth for that Denis limited dioceses parishes c considering that the Denis he supposeth lyuing
magistrate and ecclesiasticall person which is taken for graunted where yt owghte to be proued for all thowghe he saie I maie see it yet he sheweth forth no lighte off reason to make me see yt by as for that he alledgeth that in some places he is called Dominus which hath but small lordship I haue answered yt in another place where I shew that lord with vs can not be so taken vnles he meane a Christmas lord our lorde off misrule Nowe both the propositions standing the conclusion is moste treue When as also the tytle off Grace is gyuen to ecclesiasticall persons which is gyuen vnto the prince and doth not agree vnto any vnder the degree off a Duke the nexte vnto the prince I vvoulde gladly know vvhat difference there is betwene the titles off ecclesiasticall persons and the ciuill magistrate so great that he muste needes be very blind which doth not see yt And where the D. saithe that ecclesiasticall persons may shewe forthe the countenance of their degree he nether sheweth what that is and muste be belieued off his bare worde for there is no profe at all But off the pompe in other thinges there shall be God willing spoken off afterward Wheer the D. saith yt is the poincte off a Sophister to striue for names off thynges where there is agreement off the matter vnto the reasons and examples I alledged to proue that the very bare vse off certeine names is vnlawfull althowgh the thinges noted by them be not he answereth not a worde And if those exaÌ„ples be not stronge enowgh to obteine that at his handes I would knowe of him which maketh so smal accounte off names vvhether a man which confesseth him selfe mortall may be called by the name of Iehouah c. The answer to the first propositioÌ„ is insufficient I could take exceptions to the examples here aliedged as that thes wordes I haue said yovv are Gods are not gyuen vnto magistrates that they should be saluted by the name off God or that one king should be called the God of England another the god off France vvhich vvere not tollerable and approching to the pride off Antiochus but to this end that the autoritie vvhich they exercise according vnto God might be acknowledged in them yet I answer generally that those speaches be therfore lawfull because the Lorde in his scripture hath communicated them vvith men vvherfore if the D. vvill proue that the tytle off archbishop proper vnto our Sauiour Christe may be imparted vnto a mortall man he muste shewe that as the name off God light off the vvorld c. is gyuen vnto men in the scripture so is also the name of Archbishope vvhich vvhen he shall neuer doo yt ys in vaine to pretend thes examples For as yt had bene an intollerable arrogancie for any man to haue ether taken or gyuen the autoritie off God vnto the sonnes off Adam onles he him self had so honored them so is yt full off presumption ether to gyue or take this so highe a name vvhich being the seuerall off our Sauiour Christ was neuer by no vvorde off his laide owte in commen vnto any symple man vvhatsoeuer The D. answer vnto the second proposition by distinction the ignorance vvheroff he doth so often times reproche me vvith is full of disorder and hath nothing sound first yt faulteth in that yt rendeth a sunder thinges vvhich can not be seperated and that two waies one in separating the gouernement of the church by pastors doctors c. from the spirituall For vvhen the ecclesiasticall ministrie hath respecte to the sowle and conscience when yt is called the mynisterie off the spirite spirituall when they which 〈◊〉 yt are called mynisters in the kingdom off heaueâ—â— when the owtward preaching excommunication and other discipline which they vse be spirituall this seperation off the owtward gouernement off the church from the spirituall and making off them opposite members doth not distinguishe but destroie the gouernement off Christe Thother is that where our Sauiour Christ gouerneth his church spiritually both with his spirite and word he placeth his sprituall gouernement onely in that he toucheth the heartes off his electe by his spirite And where our Sau. Christe vseth the externall ministerie off men not onely in distribution off his word but also off his spirite the D. maketh thexternall ministrie to serue onely for the dispensation off the word and not off the spirite wheras he owghte to haue considered that as Christ him selfe sitting in heauen nowe teacheth by the mouth of the ministrie so he giueth also his spirite by the same ministrie in which respecte yt is called the ministrie off the spirite Seing therfore the externall gouernement off Christ in his church is spirituall and euen that inward towch off the spirite of God is not ordinarily but by the subordinate ministeries which God hath appoincted in his church yt is manifest that that distinction that Christ hath no subordinate pastors vnderneath him in the spirituall gouernement is false And if no man should touche yt the D. hath gyuen it the fall him selfe For where he saith Christ in the spirituall regiment is the onely Pastor by and by he saith he is the onely archbishop in spirituall gouernement Which if yt be true then hath he also in the spirituall gouernement other bishops vnderneath him for he can not be saide arche or cheife bishop but in respecte off other bishops vnder him And if this distinction were not false yet is it here idle and owt off place for S. Peter owt off whom I cited this testymony appropriateth to our S. Christ the name of archbishop in respecte off the externall regimeÌ„t that is to say in respecte that euery bishop had a particular charge of ministrie vnderneath him And where the D. faith there are other archbishops beside Christe in the externall gouernement seing he can not denie but the autoritie off Christ in euery prouince is greater then off his Archbishop I would gledly know off hym when he hath gyuen the name off Archbishop to another what name he leaueth vnto our Sauiour Christ wherby that exellencie and preheminence off autoritie may be noted if yt fall owt that there is no name aboue an archbishop I see not how he must not be constrained to confesse that that name is excessiue which being the greatest that can be in ecclesiasticall gouernement is giuen to him that hath not greatest autoritie The other faulte of this distinction is that yt confoundeth and shuffleth together the autoritie of our Sauiour Christ as he is the sonne off God onely before all worldes coequall with his father vvith that vvhich he hath gyuen off his father and vvhich he exerciseth in respecte he is mediator betwene God and vs For in the gouernement off the church and superiorytie ouer the officers off it our Sauiour Christ himselfe hath a superior vvhich is his father but in the gouernement off kingdomes and other
Bucer followed an other interpretaciō thē wee yet yt shall appeare he mēt nothing lesse thē therby to approue any of this stately Lordlines vsed of our bishops and that he is in this cawse ours As for his interpretaciō for my part although I cōfesse that Princes in prouiding for the peoples vnder them doo after a sort serue them yet I deny that our S. Christ ment to note here Princes duties in their gouernment And fyrst the circumstance of the place doth confute yt For when as the disciples gaping after worldly rule depended of the opiniō conceiued that our S. Christ should be a great king vpon earth it is apparant that his answer that he came to be a minister and to serue was to ouerthrow that phantasye of theirs as if he should say yow looke to be Lordes vnder me and I my self came not to be a lord or Prince wherfore yowr desyre of rule vnder me is in vaine And if this be the naturall sense of those wordes then yt is manifest that this word of ministring being opposed vnto the state of a Prince this sentence can by no meanes agree vnto ciuill magistrates Further when he calleth his disciples to the imitacion of his seruice and ministry him self being a minister of the gospelly it is cleare that he speaketh of such a ministery as can not agree vnto the ciuill magistrate This may yet better appeare by the adiointes or cleauinges knit vnto the mynistery which being suche as can not agree to the cyuill Magistrate it followeth that thes wordes can not be vnderstanded off both gouernementes For our S. Christ in his mynistry did not onely serue vnto others but was as a seruāt ād did not onely minister but was as a minister that is to say caried the face and countenāce of a seruāt in apparell in diet in obediēce vnto the cyuill Magistrate Wherunto the Apostle hath regard when he saith that our Sauiour tooke the shape and forme off a seruant But Princes althowgh they serue the profite off their peoples yet they nether carye nether is it meet they should carie the forme and shape off seruantes ether in apparell or diet or any part off cyuill behauiour ▪ but contrariwise it standeth with the ordinance off God that they should haue some owtward marke off excellency aboue the rest Moreouer in that our Sauiour Christ declareth that the cheiftye of the disciples shall neuer be so great in the churche but that the highest shall be seruant vnto the rest it muste needes be that he meaneth an other kinde off seruice then can agree vnto the cyuill Magistrate For although he be called a minister and publicke officer of God for the profit of the people ād it be saied that Dauid did minister vnto the age vvherin he liued yet that the holy gost doth euer call them seruantes off their people as he saith here his disciples shall be it can not be shewed for this word seruant which our Sauiour Christ attributeth vnto his disciples and S. Paul vsed in saying that he was the Corinthians seruant signifieth a lower and more humble kinde off seruice then the other and is neuer attributed as I thinke vnto the ciuill Magistrate in respect off his subiectes but onely in respect off his subiection vnto the lord Wherupon followeth that forsomuch as our Sauiour Christ speaketh here of a more humble seruice then can fall into the Maiestie of the cyuill Magistrate towardes his people this place can not be vnderstanded off the cyuill gouernement That in the end hath also force that wheras the Euangelistes speaking off principalitie and greatnes which the Magistrate hath ouer his subiectes vse with full consent the word Prince when they come to describe the superioritie and greatnes which our Saui. Christ will haue in his mynisters they also with full consent absteine from it being proper as I haue shewed to the Magistrate and set in place theroff a leader a word off lesse autoritie and by thapostle ascribed vnto mynisters Where yf he had ment in that later part to haue described the duty off the cyuill magistrate he would by all likelihood haue kept the same word saying whosoeuer amongest yow shal be Prince shall be as yowr seruant Therfore yt is euident that our Sauiour ment this sentence off the ministry off the word and not of Magistrates I know well yow say this place is fitly alledged against the Pope and that in wordes yow thrust him far away whom in deed yow cawse to approch But forasmuch as yowr wordes seruing against the Pope yowr reasons are for him and that his person being changed his cawse is still defended it behoued me to looke not so much at yowr defiance in wordes as at that maintenance which the course off yowr disputation bringeth vnto him And let it be now considered whether yowr toung being with the Bishop yowr hand be not with Harding He to proue that the Pope may exercise both ciuill and ecclesiasticall iurisdiction bringeth forth the exāple of Moses both priest and Prince The Bishop to confute that alledgeth this text off S. Mathew which if it put not a differēce betwene the office of a Prince and off a minister as yow say it doth not then hath the Bishop answered nothing For the question is not there whether the Pope may tyran̄ously or ambitiously ether seeke after or exercise cyuill iurisdictiō but whether he may exercise any at all Nether is the question whether the Pope may exercise that autoritie as a thing belonging vnto him self or of the graunt off Princes For then his rule should be auouched good in some times when the Emperours haue willingly submitted them selues with their scepters vnto the pleasure off Popes As for his reigning in mennes consciences it peteineth not to this place So that if the D. answer be good then this place which the Bishop alledgeth maketh nothing against the Popes ciuill sword prouided that he seeke it not and that he haue it of the kinges graunt Which how contrary it is to the Bishops meaning may easely appeare by that which followeth Yf therfore he agree with the bishop as he saith he muste allow off thes wordes off Cyprian Christ by seuerall dutyes and distinct honours hath here set a difference betvvene both the povvers And then doth Bucers autoritie faile him who thincketh that those offices are not distinguished in those vvordes it shall not be so vvith yovv and then also is he goen from his strongest hold that our Sauiour Christ did onely discerne betwene the affections when as it is saied that he discerned betvvene the offices Moreouer then must he allow off Bernardes saying yt ys plaine that temporall domynion is forbidden the Apostles novv therfore thovv being Pope hovv darest thovv vsurp ether the Apostleship being a prince or the Princehood being successour off the Apostle doubtles from the one off them thovv art forbidden c. And if he allow
stand withowt him is not by any meanes conteined vnder S. Paules Pastor The proofes of yowr diuision of bishops into archbishops and those called by the commen name of bishops are as doubtfull as that wherfore they are brought To proue that the office off an Archbishop was in S. Paules tyme although the name were not is brought the word Consubstantiall ▪ which being the commen hooke off the Papistes to pull in their vnwrittē verities owght to serue the reader for a watch word that tharbishops office needing this phisick is sick off the same disease And for the word it self although it be lawful ād very conuenient and the councell off Syrme did not well in yealding vnto the Arrians to the displacing of it yet yt is not necessarie as withowt which the doctrine off the truth off the diuinitie off our Sauiour Christ can not be mainteined For to say so were to accuse the holy writers S. Iohn especially which debating that cawse against the heretickes of his time Cerinthus Ebion c. did neuer vse it But what is this vnto the Archbishop let vs haue but one testimonie owt off the word off God off the office off an Archbishop for the infinite testimonies off the diuinitie of the sonne of God and then this example may help yow And although the word Consubstantiall were not in S. Paules tyme Yet wordes off the same weight were If yow can shew therfore wordes of the same valew with Archbishop although yow shew not this yt shall be sufficiēt if yow can not then this example maketh against yow Here also is further to be obserued that this answer off the D. off the office of the archbishop being in the Apostles time although the name was not is the armour vvherewith the Popes title of vniuersall bishop is mainteined For this is Hardinges answer to the bishop that although the name of vniuersall bishop was not at the first gyuen to the Pope yet the autoritie was After he flieth to his ould refuge of the Prince and there seeketh couer for the Archbishop asking whether he shall haue no autoritie in the church becawse he was not in S. Paules tyme. Although S. Paul had saied that our Sauiour Christ had gyuen princes vnto his church immediatly after his ascension as he beareth vs in hand he gaue archbishops ether they must haue had autoritie then or neuer after So keeping yowr similitude if our Sauiour gaue Archbishops when he ascended and in S. Paules time ether they must haue had their autoritie then or neuer after And the case is nothing like for if there were no Christian Princes in the Apostles times they being needfull for preseruation off the churches the cawse was that it was not in the Apostles power to ordein Christian Princes But it was in their power to haue prouided the churches off Archbishops if they had bene needfull and therfore they had bene inexcusable for not appointing them seruing so greatly to the building off the church as we are borne in hand Moreouer the comparison is most vnfitly made seing the cyuill magistrate is a perpetuall office for all times persones places wheras by his owne confession the Archbisop is temporall and arbitrarie Where also he asketh whether the ciuill Magistrate shall not haue the cheif autoritie in gouerning the church because there ys no expresse mention off him in thes two places I answer that the Princes autoritie is established in other places so that it may florish withowt thes But the Archbishoprick seing yt ys an ecclesiasticall function ether must be planted by one off thes places or die in the church considering that there is no ecclesiasticall function which is not here set forth Yowr collection off my wordes is euill bound together for how cleaue thes Some offices instituted off God endured for a time therfore men may deuise new offices Where lieth the strenght of yowr argument Whether in this that becawse God instituted offices for a time therfore man may or in this that God did abrogate certein offices therfore man may institute Which soeuer yow say as yow must needes say one the absurditie is apparant for in both the comparison is made between the autoritie off God and thautoritie off man Betwene whom how great distance there is so great difference is there between yowr argument and a iust conclusion The cleane contrarie is gathered rather For as we reason against the Papistes that God did not abrogate his owne ceremonies that men should thrust in others considering that if he would haue had ceremonies he would haue taken off his owne so yt may be saied that God did not cut off his owne ministeries to make place for others and that if moe ministeries off preaching and gouerning iointly had bene necessarie beside Doctors and Pastors he would rather haue kept his owne then takē those vvhich men deuise Here all shiftes and coulors failing him and not being once able to lift at this reason he hath chaunged my argument For where I had saied yt forth in a plaine hypotheticall Syllogisme he hath altered yt But I will offer yt him againe yf vnder Saint Paules Pastor tharchbishop be comprehended then he is necessarie and commaunded by the vvord off God but yow say he is comprehended therfore he is commaunded and necessarie Which if it be true then yow are fallen from yowr distinction of thinges necessarie to saluacion and not necessarie off thinges arbitrarie and commaunded by the word off god But let vs see now yow haue prepared the argument after yowr owne fashion and as yow thowght yow could weld yt how yow deale with yt Yow say first this proposition Pastors are necessarie at all times is particular verily the masters by whom this should be iudged neuer tawght that an indefinite proposition in a necessarie matter is particular But because yow like not the forme which I vsed yow shall haue it after yowr owne in this sort All S. Paules Pastors are necessarie the Archbishop as yow say is one off S. Paules Pastors therfore he is necessarie Here if yow denie the first proposition yow haue the whole councell and Senate almost of learned men against yow affirming that those two Pastor ād Doctor are amōgest the rest perpetuall offices And if to be a perpetuall office be verified off the Pastor which S Paul speaketh of then it must be verified off all conteined vnderneath amongest whom yow say the Archbishop is Secondly the Archbishop being made one off the giftes which our Sauiour ascending sent vnto his church if yt were in the power off the church ether to establish or not to establish him yt should be in her power to refuse the giftes off Christ which if it be absurd that also must be wheroff this followeth Thirdly if the Archbishop be necessarie at any time which must needes be if he be comprehended vnder S. Paules Pastor then goeth to the grownd his cōmen refuge that his office may be instituted
their vnder bishops The next diuision I will not answer The next vnto that I report me to the reader whether I haue faithfully and allmost seruilely bound my self vnto his wordes in translating thes peeces of his latin pāphlet For the next also I hauing shewed that yow placing the Apostles function in preaching and ministring the Sacramentes not in gouernement and assigning to tharchbishop both Administratiō off the word and Sacramentes and order and discipline must needes lay greater weight vpon tharchbishop then vpon the Apostles yf yow now reuoke yt I am glad Howbeit ashamed to speake it in so many wordes euen yet the course off this treatise doth breath nothing els This is no answer vnto my reason For if the church withowt the Archbishop and Archdeacon be a bodie consisting of all the partes comely knit together wherin nothing wanteth nor nothing is to much then it followeth that thes offices bring nether ornement nor accomplishement to the church but make onely an vnprofitable knob and lump off flesh to the both disfuguring and hinderance off the growght off the bodie And the ministrie off order and policie of the church being one part off this bodie if it be not whole and complete but need to be peeced owt with archbishops and Archdeacons it must draw with it this absurditie that there being one member vnperfect withowt them the bodie also off Christ is not perfecte And where it ys saied that as in the Apostles times the church was not perfect withowt them and Prophetes c. so it is not now meaning therby as both before and after hath appeared that tharchbishops should supplie the roume off the Apostles I answer that the Argument holdeth not For considering that the perfection off the bodie must be measured by the will off him whose the bodie is that is Christ as when he gaue Apostles Euangelistes c. he made it appeare that he would not haue his bodie perfect withowt them so when he tooke them away from his church he made it knowen that the bodie was perfect withowt thē Yf Apostles and Euangelistes had bene put downe by autoritie of man then yt might haue helped yow that as men put downe Mynisteries so they might supplie them with other But seing they were taken away by the Lord this yowr reason in effect becawse God taketh away therfore men may administeries hath no strenght in it And where all this drift is that yow vvould haue tharchbishops office come in for the Apostles and therfore say that their autoritie ouer the pastors doth and must remaine in such places as there be churches besides my former answer vnto this point yow are againe taken in the wordes off yowr owne lippes For if it must remaine then the office off the archbishop which yow make the vessell to receiue this autoritie in and whose office yow say consisteth in the rule off other pastors is not variable and depending off circūstance off time c. but perpetuall and constant Yf Bucer speake as yow make him I can by no meanes subscribe vnto him For S. Luke saith plainly that there were many bishops at Ephesus and gyueth the name off bishop to many That the name off bishop did properly remaine in one off them ād improperly in thother if it haue so good autoritie as the former I will belieue that too if not I hould me vnto the wordes off S. Luke And if the name off bishop doth vnproperly belong vnto those whom Saint Paul saith the holy gost had appointed bishops ouer the church I confesse that I can not tell what autoritie is sufficient to make that name off bishop proper vnto them And if the name off bishop did not properly belong vnto them all but vnto one onely yt followeth that the name also of an Elder did not properly belong vnto them For the one of them ys as well verified of them as the other and there is no more restreint off the name off bishop then of an Elder vnto any one singular person amongest them And how is this sentence off Bucer here pulled in by the heare for albeit it were concluded that one bishop should beare dominiō ouer the ministers of one churche yet yt followeth not which is here in question that one also owght to rule ouer all bishops in a prouince The rest is answered In deed I denie but yow affirme that there be still Apostles Prophetes c. ād therfore by yowr saying that order which was then owght now also to be continued And although yowr archbishop vvere vnder gownde yet order in ecclesiasticall mynistries remaineth that the teaching Elders should be a degree aboue those vvhich gouerne onely and they aboue the Deacons The marck I shoot at is certein that is to confute yowr distinction off mynisteries off the word and Sacramentes onely and ministeries off gouernement and order and it seemeth I shot so nigh that I haue driuen yow away from the marck For yow wander and tell vs of thinges that haue nether head nor foot and which if they were true make nether whot nor kold vnto this question For if your learned interpreters haue well defined S. Paules rule the Elders vvhich rule are vvorthy c. when they say yt is to serue Christ and his church faithfully in doctrine and integritie off life c then it must suffice yowr Archbishop to doo so and no more For if yow thinck that euery minister in his church is barred by that definition from further gouernement then which consisteth in preaching administring the Sacramentes vncorrupt life c it followeth that he medling with moe then those breaketh the boundes off good gouernement After yow make an other rode owt off the question bearing the reader in hand that I would conclude owt off that place equalitie off ministers when as my pourpose was as I haue shewed to confute yowr vaine distinction Which although yow here denie yet the print off yowr hand is deeper then yow can wipe owt by thes so strong but litle honest denials For onles yow refer this word onely to the secluding off the ministeries mentioned to the Ephesians from the gouernement and policie off the church yowr answer falleth as is before declared Considering that yow labouring to make a difference betwene those mynisteries and the Archbishops make none if they together with administratiō off the word and Sacramentes handle also order and gouernment And although yow had quite left owt the word onely yet thes wordes the Apostle doth recite those ministeries which are occupied in praier the word and Sacramentes not off them which are instituted for order and discipline haue that sense which I haue gyuen them For if he speake off those which minister the word and Sacramentes not off those instituted for gouernement c. yt followeth that he speaketh off those which minister the word and Sacramentes onely As he that saith a man is iustified by faith and not by worckes saith
Timothe a simple bishop as left in one cytie But it is good to obserue by the vvay how the Ans building vvith one hand ouerthroweth vvith the other For let all men that haue but a graine of salt iudge how likely it is that Timothe was Archbishop wheÌ„ so many writers both ould and new yea some in those times that archbishops were speaking of him not one calleth him archbishop but all bishop as in his treatise may appeare but thus their tounges must be confounded that build vpp Babylon As for Titus vvhom Erasmus calleth archbishop to make his autoritie of any vveight he muste needes raise that title ether of some name giuen vnto him in the scripture or of some effect which he was knowen to excute proper to an archbishop or els off some auncient writer But he could not raise it of any title the scripture giueth him there being none such nor off any thing Titus did forasmuch as there is nothing doon off him vvhich the Ans affirmeth not to be commen to euery bishop nothing prescribed to him which was not prescribed to Timothe whom Erasmus calleth simply bishop nor off any auncient vvriter there being none browght nor as I am perswaded can be browght therfore it is cleare that Erasmus calling Titus archbishop hath no weight as one vvhich spake according to the corruption off time vvherin he liued The rest of this diuis is answered before for the next let yt be iudged how yow haue ouerthrowne that alledged towching Timothe and Tite being Euangelistes I will also refer to the readers iudgement what vnlearnednes yt ys to confute autoritie by better autoritie and in vvhat place the D. vvill haue vs receiue mens autoritie vvhen he vvill not haue them controlled by other men How by this meanes he that hath the first place to speake may stop the mouth off all that follow forasmuch as yt shall be vnlawfull for them ether owt off the autors vvhich the first speaker alledged or any other to oppose a contrary sentence How also this being so vnlearnedly doon off me is notwithstanding learned in him which hath vsed it diuers times I leaue also to be iudged how to the pourpose he hath alledged thes examples off Iustice and cheif Iustice seing I helped him with this kinde off diuision and yt might haue easely appeared that my argument vvas that forsomuch as the Scoliast called them simply bishope therfore yt could not be thowght that he esteemed them archbishops vvhich is opposite meÌ„ber in this diuision Last of all how absurdly ys it saied that he which calleth an archbishop a bishop speaketh properly WheÌ„ he that hath litle more then learned his GraÌ„mer knoweth that it is a Trope vvherin the generall is taken for the speciall which is contrary to proper speach To the first reason I haue shewed vvhat mighte lead Erasmus to cal Titus archbishop ouer Crete and not Timothe ouer Ephesus To the seconde I am content that my reason off framing titles according to times be nothing worth yf Erasmus in a matter off diuinitie and hauing the vaile off corrupt tymes to hinder his sighte could not be deceiued which erred in many thinges and in those he sawe was ofte more Cretian theÌ„ Christian The third Erasmus did not gyue Titus a title according to the custome off that age wherin him selfe lyued for that there was then no bishop of Crete â—s there was of Rome when Vincentius lyued ys sensles Consydering that my answer is apparante that in speaking of Titus he applied him selfe to the coustome which had preuailed in all places off calling the bishops off the metrapolitane cyties archbishops which this answer towchech not Let him shewe one approued autor for the name of archbishop or patriarch once onely vsed in Eusebius time or before to note the superioritie off one bishop ouer all his fellowes and wee will all clap our handes vnto him if he can not then yt ys shame to say those names were vsuall in Eusebius tyme. That Nicephorus spake no otherwise off Victor then yow haue set downe yt is all one to me which pourposed to shew that he spake otherwise then ether Eusebius or the trwth would suffer hauing regard vnto the tymes wherin he lyued So that my vntrue reportes off autors are such as they are no more beficiall to my cawse then if I had vsed their very wordes For my answer made vnto Volusianus and Erasmus that men vse to speake and to thincke for the moste parte of thinges past by the measure off thinges present yf yt had no examples to warrant yt with yet yt is so manifest and sensible that I durst barely leaue yt to the conscience off all and yf the D. would gyue the rule of his toung but a litle into the hand of his conscieÌ„ce I dowbt not but he would also confesse yt Howbeit we haue a manifest example in the Centuries which confessing there was no Metropolitane in Cyprians time call him Metropolitane Another in Cornelius whom M. Philpot calleth patriarke of Rome wheÌ„ all know that ther was no patriarke many yeares after him Laste off all when yt happened vnto me to call Cyprian Metrapolitane which am an enemy to that estate as I am also charged therwith by the D. following therin the custome off the tymes which folowed how muche more might that befall to others which had no such combat with that office That next conteining vaine excuses to salue ether his ignorance or his vnfaithfullnes I haue answered His escape that Iames called bishop by Eusebius to whom may be adioined Ierome yet might be Archbishop I haue coÌ„futed The plenty off testimonies for the Archbishop browght now hideth not his pouertie in his fyrst boke for all may know that this haruest cam in sithens For the expositioÌ„ of Ireneus which interpreteh they euery one seuerally yf they seuerally ordeined bishope euery one in his circuit so it be vnderstanded with the churches consent as is before declared I am well content Yf the error off my argument had bene so grosse as yowr sight had perceiued yt I had bin sure to haue heard of yt Whatsoeuer and how many cawses soeuer yow assigne of appoincting an archbishop yet this is a perfect diuision off the subiecte that forsomuch as the Archbishopricke if any owght to be muste needes be both in some person and place not found by thapostels ordination which knewe the best gouernment nether in that person nor place both most fittest and moste likest to receiue yt yt muste folow that yt owght not to be As for yowr exception off the time fyrst yt is your manner that yow might be thowght to haue store off answer to make fowre off one for wheras the tyme and persons to be gouerned the suppression off sectes and peace off the church â–ª are put for seuerall cawses yt ys manifest that one time maketh no difference off gouernement from another
but in respecte off the persons gouerned nor the persons them selues but in respecte of their contentions and alteracion of disposition Then it shall appeare after that the tymes off persequution suche as those were the fittest for that office yf that had bene conuenient This Archbishop saied to be the officer off order confoundeth all order and changeth all an Euangelist into a bishop a bishop into an Archbishop an archbishop into an Apostel an Apostle into an Archbishop which folies are before confuted If S. Iohn were Archbishop or did an Archbishops office in those places where he abode then the other Apostle in their circuites did the like and were likewise Archbishops ouer them and the bishop there so it foloweth that ether there were no Archbishops in the Apostles tymes or if there were any they had nothing to doo their offices being not yet fallen but in the Apostles handes And if the Ans will needes haue S. Iohns antoritie the pose to measure owt the Archbishops autoritie yt muste folow that forasmuch as he had the care and ouersighte of all churches in the world the Archbishop must haue the same For the next section lett the reader iudge whether I haue delte syncerely and whether in saying Anaclete and Anicete are but suspected although he ad not without iuste cawse he leaue to them some credit For the next also of the yeare wherin the Nicene councell was houlden being not to pourpose althowghe I could mainteine the account I folowed I will leaue the Ans in his earnest disputation whose practise is to handle trifles earnestly and earnest thinges triflingly The leape is as great as I haue saied and consequently as dauÌ„gerous to tharchbishops neck For yt falleth still forth that for the space off 300. yeares from the time off the Apostles there is no syllable in any one approued autor off any ether archbishop or Metrapolitane for as for the Canons attributed vnto the Apostles those onely excepted vvhich are to be found in their writinges being as is agreed amongest men off any iudgement gathered off diuers councels in sondry times that which is here alledged off the Ans was by all likelihood drawen owt off the councell off Antioch hauing almost the very vvordes theroff sauing as yt cometh to pas yt being somewhat later is somewhat vvorse The councell of Antioch a good while after that of Nice can not make the fall off tharchbishop les daungerous As for the fable off Archbishops in Englande in Euleutherius tyme yt is before confuted So that if a Metrapolitane were all one with an Archbishop yet he is destitute of the testimonie off the purest and best tymes Where the D. thincketh those wordes off the councell off Nice Let the auncient custome be kepte will saue his necke and his body from harme he is deceiued For this word auncient being in nomber off those which haue relation and depend of others signifieth a greater or smaller time according to the thinges vvherwith it is coÌ„pared or hath relatioÌ„ vnto so that that maie be and often is called auncient which is but of very fewe yeares and vvhich other sometime can not be so called withowt a greater nomber The bishops therfore comparing that decree with other made at that tyme and not before called that an auncient custome And yt can be no straunge kinde off speach for the ministers being assembled together to speake off a matter continued a score off prouinciall Synodes and houlden in the space off 10. yeares after this sorte In suche and such thinges vvee vvill kepe our old coustome And that yt could not be long before the councell off Nice beside no testimony to the contrary â–ª Aeneas Syâ—uius gyueth this for vs before the Nicene councell euery bishop lyued vnto him self and smale regard vvas had to the bishops of home But admit yt had bene so before the councell off Nice 20. yea 30. yeares yet by yowr owne counte there is no mention off him all that time which I haue affirmed which is 300. yeares after our Sauiour Christes ascension Now therfore that the auncientie off the Metrapolitane appeareth not by this councell to be other then I alledged Let vs see what credite yt owghte to haue to proue that this decree off theirs was good For therunto the D. regardeth when he saith the notable and famous councell off Nice muste be off all wise and learned men nexte vnto the scriptures reuerenced c. It is sure that hauing regard to the decision off the different touching the perfect vnitie off substance of our Sauiour Christ with God the Father it giuing sentence vppon the vnfallible word off God is worthy to be reuerenced But if the D. will haue their soundnes in that poincte autorise the rest and that our reuerence to yt should close vp our mouthes from demaunding from whence the other canons come what ground they haue yt is that which we can by no meanes consent vnto And that yt may appeare how iustly we call this canon off the councell vnto the towch stone of the word off God let it be considered what is ordeined off them in the 12. and 23. Canons after Ruffin where they prescribe seuen yeares vnto one fallen in to Idolatrie all which tyme althowgh very repentante they forbid him the supper off the lord where also yt kepeth owte one which coming from the warr retourneth thether againe by the space off thirtene years c. which seueritie to let pas the rest as yt is againste the rule of S. Paule so yt could not but put a halter in the deuiles hand to snare a noÌ„ber of soules with all what corruption there was further at that time ether by ignorance or ambition may appeare by that if one Paphenutius had not beene they had all concluded against the honorable societie off bishops elders and Deacons vvith their lawfull wiues Yf the Ans say thes errors were but the errors off those bishops onely but the canon off a Metrapolitane hath beside their allowance the approbation off the former times also so that althowgh their single autoritie be not hable to waie yt downe yet helped vvith the auncient coustome before yt will carie yt away I answer that in the same councell appeareth that to those chosen vnto the ministrie vnmaried yt was not lawfull to take any wife afterwardes onely being maried before entrance into the mynistrie it was lawfull for them to vse the benefite of that mariadge And Paphenutius sheweth that not onely this was before that councell but was an auncieÌ„t tradition of the churche vvhich both him selfe and the reste off the councell rested in what soeuer credit therfore in any respecte cometh vnto the Metrapolitane by this sixt canoÌ„ the same in euery point cometh to this so great a corruptioÌ„ that nether single ministers might mary nor those which entred maried might after death of their wiues mary againe Yf the fame of the councell can not wipe
of an Archbishop prouoked by me you can not shew off his allowance And yet becawse yow put me in remembrance off the story vvitnes wheÌ„ I considered that nether the reste of his writinges nor other writers off the same auncientie and quarters as Ierome and Augustine mention an Archbishop yt made me suspecte greatly that there was corruption in that place After seing howe proudly and swellingly he speaketh off bishops and howe basely off kinges saying the bishops are gold and kinges in comparison off them but lead and kinges muste put their nekes vnder the knees of the bishops and kisse their right haÌ„d which speaches are â—aâ— vnlike Ambrose stile of kinges considering also that Erasm nippeth that booke in the head I assure my selfe that yt is a false Ambrose aÌ„d therfore that testimonie to be of no force Wherin I am yet further coÌ„firmed by Ambrose owne testimonie who saying it is comely that there should be equalitie in the churches which taketh away bishops dominion For seing that can not be vnderstanded off the whole companie of the church yt is manifest that it muste be restreined vnto the mynisters theroff and sauing this aduantage I answer to the next diuis that yt shall appeare after how straunge the name off the Archbishop vvas at that time For that alledged out off the Centuries Ambrose was Metrapolitane off diuers churches ioined together besydes that yow take that for graunted which is in coÌ„trouersy that is to say that the name of Metrapolitane and Archbishop be all one yow owghte to haue shewed the reasons vvherby they say so For seing they haue not that they vvrote by reuelation in a matter of controuersie they owghte no further to be belieued then they shew reason Otherwise I can oppose also autoritie which saith in plaine wordes Ambrose vvas a bishop not of a vvhole prouince or of many cyties but off one onely citie whose testomony yet is so muche more off credyt then that off the Centuries as by a neerer sighte into Ambros workes which he reuewed he was better able to giue iudgement in this matter then they vvhich occupied in reading off so many could not performe that diligente in all vvhich he in that autor he especially laboured in That I said of the Archbishop if any vvere ruling the action wherin the bishops vvere ordeined and after the action ended hauing no more autoritie theÌ„ the reste is vnconfuted by any writer yow alledge Caluin the ignorance of whose writinges with all otther yow obiecte vnto me doth not onely not speake against yt but saith in some respect more then I. For I speake this onely of the Archbishop alledged owt of the counterfaict Ambrose but he as I haue shewed saieth generally of those auncient times that the office off the Archbishop vvas rarely vsed And that I said not as yow vse withow reason but vvith those reasons which yow lifting at can not moue For vvhere I shewed yt not hke that one Archbishop ordeined bishops but other bishops with him vvhose voices he gathered the auncient councells expresly forbidding that yow say yow shewed yt not straunge at that time for a bishop alone to ordeine ministers Which thing howe vntrue yt is I refer my selfe to that before said And if yow had shewed yt yet yow making difference betweene a minister and a bishop in prouing that one bishop onely ordeined mynisters haue not proued that one bishop ordeined bishops And in saying that Ambrose is to be vnderstanded of that done by all bishops in all places yow make them all gilty off breach off canons off the generall councells in that behalfe Which how vntrwe yt is may likewise appeare by that before said Then how vaine is yt that for that the people had to doo in the bishops election one bishop alone withowt other his fellowes did ordeine After he asketh VVhere is nowe my distinction of election and ordination Firste I declared that they being for the moste parte distinguished are sometime taken for one Secondly I haue vttered no word wherby it is once towched Thirdly yf I had taken yt away yet he same toucheth not this matter as he saith but nether sheweth nor can shew how onely hauing nothing to answer he speaketh in the clowdes where he is so far from being vnderstood of others that I thinke he vnderstood not him selfe His answer Ambrose mente not off the Archbishop in the prouince where him selfe was bishop is firste vpholden by flatte begging of diuers thinges in controuersie as whether an archbishop and metrapolitan be all one whether Ambrose were metrapolitane and whether being he had autoritie him selfe to forbid such disorders Secondly that he alledgeth to remoue yt from Ambroses prouince maketh rather against him For if that corruption he complained of were in all places then it was in his prouince also Where he saith I am deceiued that I thincke he wrote his booke for his owne diocese onely my wordes importe no such thing yt is enowghe for me yf in the prouince where he was this corruptioÌ„ had place the further he will strech those wordes the depelier he woundeth the gouernement off the archbishop But this is more then dutie vnto that counterfaicte Ambrose What truth this deuise hath I am coÌ„tent yt be iudged of the reasons before alledged my quotacion off the Centuries was easie to find if yow had not helpe of the table the time yt selfe would quickly haue directed yow yt is in the beginÌ„ing of the chapter which yow alledged so that if yow had red any more then serued for yowr tourne yow should haue found how he affirming that in those daies there were but three principall degrees off the â—lergie bishop elder and deacon alledgeth for profe Ambrose The name off Archbishop owte off Sozomen maketh not againste this considering that he writing abowte the yeare 430. calleth Simeon Archbishop according to the time wherin he vvrote and not vvherin Simion liued Nether doth the place off Epiphanius alledged after owte of the Centuries make againste this For albeit the name of Archbishop was in his time vvhich liued ether in Ambroses time or somewhat before yet there is no likelihoode that it was then receiued in the latin churches seing none off their writers of those times once make mention off that name And it is certein that it being a greeke name was firste receiued in the greeke churches and Easte partes or euer it came into the latin and weaste Nowe for this great shewe the A. bringeth into the stage they are scarce worth the looking on they shall haue therfore a shorte answer their autoritie shall be coÌ„sidered after being here altogether owte off place and contrary to the litle off his chapter and according to the oulde coustome off repetitions propounded after I here therfore deale onely with the names And firste for that off Metrapolitan yt is shewed that it is not the same in signification with the Archbishops yt
much a minister bestowethe in a vocation which is not his so muche he leaueth his owne and therby manifest that in altering the wordes I kepte the sense And so yt still fallethowte that my falsifying which the Answ penne doothe so willingly runne vpon is nether with any aduantage to my cause nor disaduantage vnto his The two nexte sections I let passe as hauing no matter off answer What attendance the prelatship off the Garter requireth and what absence from a Bishops charge being a thinge in the knowledge off all I leaue whether he hathe manifestly peruerted the wordes off the Admonition which here he denieth the bookes off bothe sydes are vvitnes His slaunders first we take a waie the princes authoritie ouer ecclesiasticall persons then we woulde giue to vnderstande that he maketh yt in her maiestyes power to minister the worde and Sacramentes still confirme his shameles impudencie of the one there is no syllable that can be pulled that waies The wordes of which he would vvreste the other be yt is not lavvfull to take those vvhich god hathe appointed to the mynistry to applie to other vses there mentioned Which because yt falleth into the question off residence before handled and into that bearing cyuill office by the Ecclesiasticall person herafter God willing to be disputed the resolution ys to be taken from those places Where in the laste dyuision he calleth vppon my answer to the tytles off Lordes grace c. beside that he hathe nothing but bare sayinges withowte shewinge forthe any matter he hathe answer Thus after large promises off shewing the greate antiquitie off thes names that they were not onely in the Councell off Nice but are manifestly to be founde in all stories and writers before the councell off Nice after highe wordes againste those which denie the pretended antiquitie after rifling and ruffling vp euerie darcke corner where thes greate and glorious names might be hidden after hell yt self hath bene moued and sommoned to witnes of this antiquitie yt is manifest that thes names nor no one of them hathe hetherto bene shewed in any one Councell writer or storie before the Councell of Nice and then onely the name Metropolitane which by the Answ owne account was abowt the yeare 330. yt ys manifest also that the names Archbishop archdeacon Primate c. be not shewed owte off any ether Councell storie c. before Epiphanius time vvhich vvas aboute the yeare 380. and so manifeste that thes names being not founde in moste aunciente monumentes could not haue their allowance what approbacion they haue had sythens they came into the church I leaue yt to be estemed partly off that which hathe bene and partly off that which shall be God willing alledged â–ª being bent as well against the office as name off archbishop Which I therfore forbeare to set downe here leste I shoulde be compelled to repeate them againe Caput 3 Diuis 1. THat the reader maie haue clearer light to iudge of our writinges on both sydes in the rest off this controuersie and that we may be better furnished of weapons againste this greate leuie off pretended autorities two questions seeme necessarie to be decided before we come vnto them The one whether the worde off God hathe ordeined that in euery seuerall congreation there shoulde be a bishop which the Answ dothe flatly denie and further saith yt appeareth owte off certeine ecclesiasticall writers and the exampels off Timothe and Titus that the Apostels appointed bishops onely in principal townes and cities The other is whether there were allowed in one citie 2. or moe bishops which likewise he flatly denieth can be shewed to haue bene from Christâ—â— time and that the whole practise off the prymitiue churche is againste yt Yf thes thinges be shewed to haue bene ordeined off the Apostels yt muste folowe that this institution off God banished by Satan owght to be called home an that all autoritie off men and coustome exalted againste this must yealde theÌ„ selues prisoners Likewise if these be shewed the trwthe of expositioÌ„ of the testimonies of the moste aunciente writers shall better appeare vvherby we haue shute the bishoplike autoritie in the circuite aÌ„d roundell of one church which the Ans would haue extended vnto a realme or diocese And so shall come to pas that they which hauing all their senses possessed of the coustome of thes later and corrupter times when they reade or heare off a bishop in the scripture or in the moste auncieÌ„te writers conceiue forthwith a bishop of the same mould that ours be shall a greate deale easelier correcte their error For if a bishop in the Apostels time and off their institution was the bishop off one churche onelie by all likelihood those times which folowed nexte after them kepte them neerest vnto that image whervpon will fall owte that this vsurped autoritie of bishops ouer their fellow ministers did by litle and litle encrease according to the measure of time further from that wherin thapostels liued and nearer vnto that wherin Antichrist was fully setled which thinges although they haue light enough in them selues yet to cleare this matter better there shall be God willing set downe certein testimonies of the most auncient times wherby as by certein traces the truth off thes thinges may be easelier found owt The first that euery particular church should haue her bishhop is manifest by Paul to Timothe For seing the description of a bishop which he gyueth doth agree vnto the minister of euery congregacion and nothing there required in the one which is not in the other it followeth that the minister off euery congregacion is the bishop theroff For the description agreing with euery of them the thinges described must likewise Secondly onles he doo by this description off the bishop set forth the nature off euery minister of the word in his congregation in describing the offices off the churche he hath left owt the principalest membres and was more carefull in describing the Deacons ministerie not occupied in the vvord then the preaching ministeries but that is absurd yt must follow that he vnderstood them by the name off bishop Furthermore S. Paules bishop was appointed to the same place wherunto his Deacons but his Deacons were assigned to a particular congregation as appeareth both by the vse of the scriptures aÌ„d also by that after this corruption entred that euery church had not her bishop yet it had her Deacons as is to be seen by that alledged of the Deacons off the churches off Mariotes S. Paul also there assigning the charge and care of the bishop ouer the church of God must ether gyue him charge ouer the whole bodie of the catholike church or ouer one particular congregation or of the faithfull companie of one howse but he extendeth not his charge ouer all the Catholike church for that were to make a Pope not a bishop nor restraineth him to the faithfull of one
heard off or it could not be doon conueniently without an archbishop by appointing one amongest them at euery off their Synodes who should haue autoritie to call the Synode following Which is likewise answer to his next reason of putting them in minde off their duties Al this may be seeÌ„ not onely by practise of reformed churches in diuers places Fraunce especially where Synodes are assembled from all partes of the realme twise a yeare notwithstanding al that dominioÌ„ of one minister ouer an other pulled vp by the rotes but also in the primitiue church by that recited of one Malchion Who being a simple Elder so far from the estate of aâ—â— Archbishop that he was not Bishop was president in the Councell off Antioch assembled against Samosatenus heresie If a simple Elder might gouerne the Bishops yt shall be to great shame for them not to suffer them selues to be gouerned for the time by one of their owne order withowt making an archbishop Wherby appeareth how vntollerable the D. is which condemneth this order as inconuenient confused disordered Where he saith it can not be but a great help that one haue cheif care of prescruacion of vnitie the office off an archbishop can put no further care for the church vpon any then the Lord putteth on hym by vertue off the office off bishop For if the gouernement off his owne church take not vp all his thowghtes and cares whatsoeuer is left is due vnto other churches by ordinance off the lord Forsomuche therfore as euery bishop in the Prouince by calling off God careth to the vttermost of his power for the churches wheruÌ„to he is associated and tharchbishop can doo no more then what lieth in his power it followeth that there can be no calling off men which can ad vnto his care for this vnitie If he saie that this institucion off men causeth the care coÌ„maunded off god the rather performed firste yt is vntrue for althowghe the ordinances off men maie gyue a prick to the doynge off thinges owtwarde yet they are not hable to moue the conscieÌ„ce and inwarde affections wheroff the care he speaketh off is a fruicte Then yf it had suche force as to awake his care yet that shoulde be with no aduantage vnto the churches of the Prounce forsomuche as that woulde giue occasion vnto other bishops off diminishing theirs whilest they phansie with them selues a streighter bonde to prouide for the vnitie off the churche in the archebishop then in them selues And so the care by this meanes reuiued in one shoulde die in a great nomber where he addeth as yt is in other societies yt hathe bene shewed that our Sauiour Christ forbad that rule off one minister ouer an other in the churche which maie be vsed in the common wealth Althowghe I haue answered further vnto this pointe where those societies are particularly specified Where he asketh what if the bishops were deuided amoÌ„gest them sel ues who should compounde their controuersies He hathe his answer that he may call them together in whose hande the laste Synode lefte that autoritie And what yf the archbishop him selfe draw owte off his trace and be ether deuided from all the bishops or from the better and sounder parte standing this goodly order who shall range him And when the D. saithe that tharchbishop can not deale for appeasing off controuersies but by persuasion and that composition which is made by intreatie off parties maie be made conueniently by equals what needethe there any superior archbishop How vntruly the Ans writeth off the archbishops and bishops autoritie in our church to hyde the hornes off their immoderate power both in this diuis and that before the eyes and eares off all men are witnes But as he serueth tharchbishops and bishops in this defense so for recompense off his paines he maketh them waite vpon him and hauing now set them on horseback by and by for shift of answer he maketh them light and goe a foote with their fellowes Cyprian saith the cause muste be heard vvhere the faulte vvas committed the D. that is to be vnderstanded of the Prouince or diocese as if it were not hearde within the prouince and diocese when yt is hearde within that particular churche where the controuersy groweth Therfore to make good his answer thus he must interprete thes wordes there vvhere the faulte vvas committed it shall be heard whersoeuer in the Prouince or diocese the faulte is committed yt must be hearde at the archbishops or bishops palace The firste interpretacion is coÌ„trarie to the proprietie of speache For seing matter rising in a particular church is saide properly to rise there where yt was doone and can not but improperly and by figure be saide to rise in the Prouince or diocese yt is manifest that Cyprian is made withowte any necessitie to sprake improperly As for the nexte interpretacion yt is cleane contrary to Cyprians meaning For when he will haue the matter there handled where they may haue bothe accusers and vvitnes that can be by no meanes vnderstoode off the Archbishops or bishops consistory For the parties haue not their witnesses aÌ„d accusers there whether they are coÌ„streined with greaate charges and longe iorneis to transporte them Where he saith Cyprian speaketh againste those which wente from Africk into Italie I preuented that shewing the reason is generall and seruing aswell againste those which will pull their causes vnto their hearing which dwell a 100. or 200. miles off them as againste those which carie them from one contrey to an other wherunto he answereth nothing For if there shoulde be a bare opposition betwene Africke and Rome and not rather betweene the place where the coÌ„trouersie riseth and that far of as lawfull as yt ys for him to say Cyprian meaneth not a particular churche where the cawse riseth but the diocese or Prouince so lawfull ys yt for me to saie that he meaneth nether diocese nor prouince but onely that quarter which makethe the fourth parte of the worlde So that by this meanes the cause rising in Mauritania maie be iudged in Aethiopia which is more then 10. times farther a sonder theÌ„ Rome froÌ„ Carthage And consequently yt should follow that any controuersy rising in the churche off Englande may be determined at Rome being a parte off Europe as at the place by his answer where the cause rose Where he saith there ys no Prouince with vs where bothe the accusers and witnesses may not be browght I graunt if they come and leaue their busines at home yf they die not by the way if the parties be able to beare their charges And with thes conditions they may be browght further And by this exposition off the Ans the triall made in passing the seas which the councell off Africk after forbad may be a great deale more commodious then the archbishops For they which dwell by the seaside may both with more ease and lesse charges haue end of their matters in
set downe off the Ans He saith it is a poore refuge to discredite the autor I spared the autor casting part of the error vpoÌ„ the times wherin he liued which I proued corrupter and further from the truth left by thapostles by a reason which he could not so much as wrangle with althowgh as towching the proofe off an archbishop or bishop suche as ours I am content the Ans set vp his credit as much as he will. He saith there is no difference betwene Cyprians bisbop and Ieromes Seing he will needes haue it so let one measure be off both and therby I trust shall appeare off that which I haue spoken before that Ieromes bishop is lower by heade and shoulders then they for whom his autoritie is houlden owt Howbeit if in Cyprians time the bishop onely had not the laying on of handes and ordeining him that was chosen to the ministrie by the church but the Elders and he did nothing in his church or parish but vvith aduise of the Elders theroff yt appeareth that Ieromes bishop althowgh differing onely from an other minister in ordeining Elders and Deacons had somwhat encroched vpon the boundes off the presbitery more then Cyprians Lastly he saith for the corruption off times this kinde of bishop was deuised I willingly giue testimonie vnto those gouernours or at least the most off them that they had a good meaning in that inuention off man but that it was remedy against the corruptions I deny And to the reasons before alledged for proofe therof let this be added that euen from the first day wherin this deuise was established the corruption in the church was not deminished but grew and got strenght by litle vntill the whole face of the earth was couered and the power off darcknes in the fulnes off Antichristes kingdome wholy setled Likewise that the first resistance by any setled church against that corruption was by those which abolished that deuise off man and receiued the order in the Apostels times towching the equalitie off ministers As the Bohemians Merindoles the churches in Germany and Geneua whose standerd bearers as partly hath appeareth and more hereafter shall fowght against this stately dominion both of bishops and archbishops The next diuis I leaue to the readers iudgement referring him to that answered in the beginning In the next as one whose forehead is more hard then Adamant he shameth not still to affirme that this manner off bishop and archbishop was in the Apostles time notwithstanding the autor owt off whom he draweth his proofes confesseth that at the first there was no difference betwene a bishop and an Elder and that after it was decreed that in euery church one onely should haue the name of bishop Yf it were the first institution that they shoulde be one and the first institution be the Apostels institution it was the Apostels institution that they shoulde be all one yf the Apostels did reuoke this institution off theirs shewe their handes bringe forthe their euidence Ierome prouethe by diuers testimonies off scripture that a bishop and elder were one according to S. Paul. Therfore if the D. auoide this autoritie he must shewe vs the Apostels autoritie in writing for herin yt is trwe that the lawe saith matter of vvriting and recorde can not be auoided but by that of as high a nature He gathereth that this order of bishops and archbis was in thapostles times because there were schismes then I haue by this reason proued in an other place that thâ—â—e were no archbishops where if he had any thinge he should haue spoken And how is he bewitched which seeth not the wordes of his autor For when Ierome saith this came by custome he euidently declareth that â—â— was not by determinacion of the Apostels The same declareth Augustin when he saith the office of a bishop vvas greater then off an other mynister as tovvching the names off honor throvvghe a custome off the churche vvhich novve hathe gotteÌ„ the vpper hand Likewise when Ierome saithe this preferment of the bishop is not by any necessitie of lavve but for that yt vvas graunted to honor him vvithall yt ys manifeste that yt was not by the Apostlels determinacion For yf yt had bene their institution yt had bene necessarie After admitting yt was after the Apostels he procedeth to answer Tertullian which saithe that ys true vvhich is first that ys false vvhich is later But how cometh yt to passe that he anwereth not that alledged owte off our Sauiour Christes e wordes which calleth the Pharisies vnto the firste institution that was belike to harde for him to byte vpon And the answer vnto Tertullian is absurde For he bringeth him in reasoning as he vseth that is prouing the thinge in controuersie by that a like doubtefull For if the rule of Tertullian extende yt selfe no further then vnto thinges he there speaketh of and in debate his reason is no reason but a giddie turne aboute wherin altowghe greate paines be taken yet there is no grownde gotten Wheras Tertullian proue the that Praxeas iudgement of our Sau. Christe was therfore naught because yt was new aÌ„d new because yt was not agreing with that gyuen by the scripture Moreouer his answer to the place presumeth that the gouernement off the churche is not a matter off faithe and saluacion which is the question And as for his Phantasies he resembleth my reason with they haue nothing like For beside that there were Christian magistrates baptisinges in churches coÌ„munion ministred vnto more then 12 â–ª in thapostels times and off their alowance the Apostels neuer tawght that there should be no ChristiaÌ„ magistrates no baptisinges hut in riuers no eating off thinges strangled c. the contrary off all which they plainly taught ordeining onely that the Gentils should support the Iewes in strangled thinges abut they rawght that a bishop and traching elder be all one and neuer alowed that one Pastor shoulde take the name off a bishop from all his fellows within 40. myles compas The testimonie owt off Tertull maketh way for Montanus heresie wherof I haue spoken beforé Vnto the nexte diuis he answereth not For yt being plaine that the Apostels tawght that a bishop and elder were all one because he had nothinge to answer he leueth that and runnethe backe to that handled in the beginning off the equalitie off ministers As for the testimonie owte of Zuinglius firste yt is vntrw that the Anabaptistes obiecte this place againste Zuinglius which I haue pressed him with secondly yt is vntrue that they obiected vnto him in the like case which wee doo for in all their controuersies with him they haue not one of those pointes now debated And where he saith Tertullians wordes serue not because thes degrees are not againste the truth let him denie if he dare that this is the truth off God that a Bishop and an other minister off the word be all
one Then let him answer whether thes sayinges a bishop and an other minister off the word are all one a bishop and an other minister off the word be not all one be opposed and set one against an other If he can deny none off these then it ys iustly concluded that this inuention off man which hath made a bishop to differ from another mynister off the worde is againste the truth Because I loue not that compas off wordes which the D. delighteth in I concluded shortly and yet sufficiently to the vnderstanding off any that dothe not willingly blindefolde him selfe My argument ys The best deciding off controuersies vvas in the apostels time but that vvas not by archbishops vvherfore the best deciding of cōtrouersies is not by archbishops for proofe that yt was not by archbis I set downe that there were no archebishops then Vnto this deformed face off reason as he calleth yt let vs see how formally he answereth Firste he saith we are not bounde to the forme of gouernemēt vsed by the Apostels and therin referreth him selfe to that he hath and shal saie where also let him take his answer Secondly that althowghe the Apostels had not the name off Archbishops yet they had the office which I haue shewed to be a shift of the Papistes Then yt is to be obserued how he proueth that thapostels had the office of an archbishop and in what good logicke Archbishops haue the direction off many churches the ending off controuersies c. the Apostles had the same therfore the Apostels were archbishops by this reason a man maie proue not onely diuers but contrary thinges to be all one seing contraries haue diuers thinges wherin they agree So that first this kinde off reasoning hath the fault of those ridiculous argumentes which the D. propoundeth pag. 316. secondly yt taketh for graunted which is the question For he presumeth that the Archbishops office kepeth the church in godly quietnes which is debated Thirdly to proue the Apostels autoritie in the churches which is not in question he hath made a greate muster of testimonies to proue the archbishops not a word After he cyteth Ambrose to proue that Apostles are bishops Yt is greate merueill if he kepe good order in the church for whose establishement the Answ is constreined thus to confound and make a broile off all and it is before confuted Howbeit admitting that the bishops succede vnto the Apostels in preaching the word and gouerning the church I haue shewed how that is a whip to driue the archbishop cleane owt of the church off god And this is here to be obserued that when it is saide the bishops succede vnto the Apostels c. that must be vnderstanded off the Apostles bishops and such as they instituted For what bishops haue better right to succede the Apostles then they But those were as I haue shewed bishops off singular congregations bishops which had no superiotitie ouer their fellowbishops as Ierome doth confesse In the end he saith If I can proue by good autoritie that one was gouernour amongest the 12. Apostles it shall not seme strange to haue an archbishop ouer a Prouince If vpon this that one had gouernement of 12. assembled in a particular place he can conclude that there should be one gouernour off the ministers in a Prouince I can with better reason conclude that there may be one to gouerne all the ministers in the worlde For if because one gouerned twelue therfore one may gouerne all in Prouince then becawse one may gouerne all in a Prouince I will conclude that one may gouerne all in the worlde As towching the number off those which are gouerned there is not so much difference betwene the ministers off a Prouince and the ministers off the whole church as betwene 12. and the ministers off some whole Prouince Towching the distance off place yt is as much betwene a Prouince and the wole extent off Christianitie as betwene a particular place off an acre breadeth and some Prouince Wherfore this reason is more fauorable to the Pope then to the Archbishop Peters superioritie shall be after seen where also this sentence of Ierome shall be answered Onely here let it be obserued that the Answ hath borowed this reason off Pope Anaclete which alledgeth it to proue Archbishops And it is browght also of Pighius against the protestantes which denied that there owght to be any archbishops as shall appeare herafter more at large The place off Caluin is handled afterward Bucers vpon the Ephes I haue answered That owt off his booke de Reg. Ch. the same in effect hath the same answer Howbeit it is here to be noted how the D. thorowgh greedy desire off seeming to say somwhat putteth downe with one hand that he setteth with the other For to the maintenance off the archbishop and bishop here be browght two testimonies one of Ierome thother of Bucer cleane contrary If Ierome say true that the superioritie off one Bishop ouer an other is by coustome not by institution off God then is that vntrue pretended out off Bucer that it pleased the holie goste yt should be so For if it be off the holie goste it is the institution of god The D. therfore must forgoe one off thes seing that both will neuer drawe in one forowgh The contrarietie with my self which the glosse chargeth me with is for that pag. 349. I saied owt off Eusebius that as long as thapostles liued if any vvent about to corrupt the doctrine they dit it in the darck and here owt off the Apostle I affirme there vvere heresies and schismes Wherin what contrarietie there is and what a trifler this is let the reader iudge sauing that if there were any contrarietie it is not mine with my self but Eusebius with the Apostle The Answ would gird vp his Archbishop in smaller roume that he might seme les growen owt off faschion He saith therfore the archbishop when a schisme or heresie riseth determineth yt according to the law established by the church Wherin he speaketh absurdly considering that the church can make no other rule wherby he may procede in decision off schismes and heresies then in referring him to the rule off the scripture So the summe off this answer is the Archbishop may not determin the matter at his pleasure but according to the word off god As thowgh the question were by what rule controuersies should be decided and not by whom For when the controuersie at Antioch was referred to the Apostles c. in Ierusalem it was not permitted vnto them otherwise to iudge off it then according to the word Now therfore let it be obserued how aptly the D. answereth To abat◠the swelling autoritie off the Archbishop I alledge that in deciding cōtrouersies yt is not permitted to any one to determin vvhat is the vvill off God in that behalf The D. saith the archbishop must determin by the word off God.
bishop all men see that in taking Ierome by the lips withowte considering his meaning the contrary off that the D. gathereth doth folowe that euery minister is a bishop but not euery bishop a minister For that which is conteined vnder an other is more particuler and les then that vvhich dothe conteine as because the kinge is conteined in the magistrate therfore euerie Kinge is a magistrate but not euerye magistrate a Kinge And albeit yt be no meruaile althowghe he which striueth with the trwth shoulde be stricken with suche a guiddines off spirite that he shoulde not be hable to discerne not onely betwene the morning and noone daies but not between noone daies and midnight yet because the smattering in logick which this booke maketh shew of might be so much as not to be so grossely abvsed in casting with my selfe wherfore he shoulde alledge this in the ende yt came to my minde that by thes wordes the elder is conteined in the bishop he woulde haue vnderstanded that the elder is conteined vnder the bishops gouernement If he meane so there is as great ouersight in his grammer as before in logicke ogicke considering that the toung as I suppose will bare no such sense certeine ys that the autor will not suffer yt For he assigneth as reason why thapostle did not speake of the elder for that an elder is conteined in the bishop and therfore speaking of th one he needed not to speake of thother Wheras if he should meane that he would not speake of an elder because he was in the gouernement off the bishop to order as he thowght good yt had bene a witles saying vnworthy of Ierome considering that thapostle speaketh of a deacon which is vnder a bishop Which shall be answer to his like dealing with Chrysostome That Ierome speaketh of an archdeacon in that place I haue before declared But the D. asketh why I went about to deface Ierome if he nether make for our ether bishop or archbishop for that there coulde be no other cause but this I haue shewed that I saued him his due and conuenient honor the cause why I gaue the reader warning to trie him by the rule off the worde off God was because he seemeth in some places to alowe that distinction off bishop from an elder which is diuers from the institution off the Apostell After he setteth downe his places oftén before repeted and asketh whether I thincke those meÌ„te of euerie pastor in his parishe I haue shewed how althowghe vpon occasions before recited there were not in euery congregacion at that time a bishop yet there were in diuers he saith further that the pastor in euery congregation from the beginning had his autoritie ouer his flocke withowte anie suche constitution I graunte he had his antoritie but not so soueraigne as after he obteined by this euill custome considering that he had an equall parte of gouernement with those ioined with him in the administracion off the churche And this althowghe yt be debated betwene vs yet the D. frameth his answer as thowghe there were no suche thinge For albeit for the moste parte there were no moe pastors theÌ„ one in a parishe yet there were moe elders And albeit Ier. speake of those elders which had the ministerie of the word yet â—â—at excludeth not those which were onely for gouernement Where he saith moreouer the care of the whole flock was committed vnto him I see not how he can conclude therof that the bishop was ouer a whole diocese suche as ours yt might rather be concluded that he had charge off one onely congregation considering that althowghe him selfe alone were thowght hable to care for one congregacion yet there is none which would thinck him self alone able to care for a whole dioces And beside that the churches should be in miserable case if none should care for theÌ„ but euery bishop in his dioces let the D. stretch owt the bishops iurisdiction as far as he can yet I haue shewed owt off the Emperours letters to the bishop of Alexandria that the elders off the same church where he abode had aioynt care with him ouer all Which is also confirmed by the testimonie the Ans hath alledged owt off M. Fox where not the bishop onely but his church also is saied to haue the ouersight off the precinctes which perteined vnto him And Ierome him self shewing that the elders ovvght to gouerne in commen vvith the bishop can not be thowght to giue vnto the bishop the whole care of the church as peculiar vnto him alone onles a man will make him contrary to him self For if they haue the gouernement in coÌ„men with him they haue the care in coÌ„men for somuch as there can be no gouernement withowt care So that where Ierome saith the care off the whole churche was coÌ„mitted vnto one yt must be vnderstanded so as yt may be leuell with his other saying especially wheÌ„ he saith that a bishop differed from his elder onely in ordinacioÌ„ Which may appeare by the practise off the churches about the time wherin Ierome wrote For it was ordeined that the bishop should not iudge off any matter but in presence off his clergie if othervvise his sentence should be voide Wherby appeareth that an other canon permitting the iudgement off subdeacons and other inferior orders vnto the bishop alone must be vnderstanded alone withowt other bishops not withowt other assistance Which is also cleare considering that the Councell opposeth the decision off their cawses vnto that off elders and deacons which was to be doon by six and three bishops beside the bishop off whom they were accused This gouernement in commeÌ„ appeareth also in that vvhen one off the clerckes vvould goe ether to the vvidovves or virgines he must haue as vvell the leaue off the elder as off the bishop Likewise that it was ordeined that the deacon should acknovvledge him self as vvell the minister vnto the elder as to the bishop Here it is also to be obserued what that ordinacion was wherin onely the bishop differed from the elder how poore a thing For beside that it can not be vnderstanded off the election which was commen to him with the people and the eldership yt was decreed that vvhen there vvas a bishop to be ordeined tvvo bishops should hould the booke ouer his heade one other bishop should pronounce the blessing aÌ„d the rest of the bishops vvith thelders present should all lay on their handes So that ether there was an other order at Rome theÌ„ is here appointed or els the bishops preeminence was onely to pronounce the blessing and hould the booke the elder hauing as good right to lay on his handes as he Where he saith his place against the Luciferanes with an other owt off his epistle is more cleare he bringeth no reason at all nether are there any wordes to enforce that Onles by church one vnderstand dioces or Prouince such as ours
off this diuis he saith Peter was in all such assemblies the cheife and in an other place he was the cheife in euery matter and for proufe saith the moste off the old ecclesasticall writers in that respecte counte him cheife of the Apostels yt had bene good he had shewed at the leaste one I cōfesse that there are ould writers which call him so but that they doo yt in that respecte I denie for the cheifty they giue him ouer the reste was for his singular zeale and other giftes not as he saith for that he had autoritie ouer them For proofe wherof I will propound him firste that Peter was Prince of the Apostels as Plato was of the Philosophers likewise that he was Prince off the Apostels as Moses Helias Dauid Isay off the Prophetes Now if Plato were ruler or had the commaundement off other Philosophers or if Moses of the Prophetes that cam after his death then Peter also might haue the same ouer the Apostels but if they be therfore so called because they excelled the reste in giftes then yt is cleare that thes fathers estemed not Peter chiefe for any powre or autorny ouer the reste An other saith Peter vvas that the reste off the Apostels vvere off like not office onely but honour and povvre directly contrary to D. vvhere he preferreth Peter in honour and contrary to that he both here and pag. 68. althowghe not in the same in wordes yet indeed doth affirme Thirdly it is to be noted that heere the D. hande is againe with Harding againste the bishop to whom alledging that Peter had powre ouer the reste off the Apostels the bishop answereth Peter vvas chiefe off the APostels as Aristippus is called chiefe off Philosophers that is the firste or beste man off the company where he denieth that S. Peter was ether lord or Prince or had povvre or vvas gouernour ouer the reste off thapostels He addeth from this opinion that Peter in all such assemblies and in all matters moderated the reste was chiefe and spake first the late writers dissent not If he meane the Papistes I graunt if the Catholike he bringeth not nor as I thincke can bring so much as one which saith so Here he hath the bishop againste him to whom may be added Caluin Bullinger Beza Gualter with others Wher I shew that Iames ruled the action Act. 15. and not Peter considering that he pronounced the sentence vvherunto the rest agreed he saith first that Peter spake before the reste which is vntrew for there was great disputacion off both sides before Peter spake ▪ therfore yt muste needes be that the cawse was propounded by some before And so yt is friuolous he alledgeth owt off Caluin to proue Peter proloquutor for that he stoode vpon this especially that he mighte declare thestate of the question as yf the Apostels Synode were so confused that a great parte of it was spente or euer the company were informed of the state off the question Wheras Caluin meaneth that S. Peter confirmed pithely the trwth in that question and not that he trauailed to shew wherin the question consisted as appeareth by Peters whole oration So that Saint Peters oration is firste set downe not for that he spake firste but for that he was the first amongeste the Apostels and Elders which S. Luke thowght good to commit to writing It is also childish that Peter was moderator because he spake after there was great disputacion as if euery one which cometh betwene two parties striuing to draw thē to concord hath autoritie ouer them considering that ther is not a worde in Peters oration which giueth the least ynckling off suche autoritie beside that to helpe him selfe he shamfully slaundreth the Apostels Synode attributing vnto yt a tumult and bitter contention where S. Luke saith onely greate disputacion which may well be withowt both Whether yt be custome off Synodes for the moderator to speake laste and so to ponounce the sentence gathered vpon the former voices I leaue yt to the iudgement off the reader referring him also to that the bishop writeth in this behalfe who proueth against Harding which will haue Peter cheife that Iames vvas chief because he gaue the definitiue sentence Wherby also appeareth that this came ether from Pigghius or Harding or from some suche popishe fen After admiting Iames Moderator he faithe being then bishop by the Scoliastes iudgement yt was not vnmeete he should be moderator within his charge I haue shewed that an Apostle can not be changed into a bishop and if he coulde yet yt was vnmeete that S Peter should leefe his right wherto he saith he was ordeined off God to vse from thascention vnto his dying day Therfore it is against him directlie but how against me he nether doth nor cā shew Beside it is absurde that an Apostle shoulde giue place vnto a bishop because the bishop is in his charge considering that an Apostle is in his charge in what churche soeuer he come and that as an Apostle to whom the bishop vnlesse he were by consent chosen to gouerne the synode owght to giue place And if yt be trew that it is meete the bishop of the place where the synode is houlden should gouerne the synode why hath he made this before a necessarie cause off hauing an archbishop to gouerne Synodes The other place off the Actes makethe for this matter For if Iames assembled the lders and ruled that meeting wherin it was determined what S. Paule should doo him selfe being present which was as shall appere in nothing inferior vnto Peter he might by the same right moderate the assemblie in Peters presence Where I shew that this is the superioritie which is amōgest bishops and ministers he answereth yt is so but not all But owt of the scripture wheroff the question is here he neither doth nor can shew other superioritie so that here his cause faleth flat Wher I alledged Maister Caluin that one off the Apostles indefinitelie not any one singular person had the moderation off the rest he answereth owt off him that it vvould not be absurde if vve confesse that the Apostels gaue preheminence vnto Peter Which is but daliaunce For he affirmeth simply that our Sauiour Christ meant nothing lesse then to make Peter cheife off the reste off the Apostels Here Hauing proued that Peter vvas nothing els but one of the tvvelue that he vvas equall vnto them their fellowe not their lord that they had as muche povver ouer him as he ouer them he disputeth that if it were graunted which the Papistes require off Peters being Prince off the Apostles which he vtterlie deniethe yet yt followethe not which they would conclude off a Pope Likewise he daliethe in shewing what autoritie the Consull off Rome and masters of Colledges haue adding that tharchbishop is content with lesse Where Caluin compareth the moderator in the ministers meeting with the
this testimonie of Epiphanius And further saith of Wickleue that therfore he tooke away the difference betwene bishop and elder because he could not obteine the bishoprick of Worcester and in an other booke inueigheth sharplie against them for that they would haue neither Pope nor primate nor Archbishop nor Bishop And that yt may yet appeare euen to the simple reader that they had the same cause against Pigghius and the Papistes which we against the D. I offer to his consideration besides the two flat testimonies of M Barnes aÌ„d Hooper before cyted M. Wickleues tenthe article in thes wordes Ther be 12 disciples of Antichrist Popes Cardinalles Patriarckes Archbishopes Bishops Archedeacons Officials Deanes Monkes Chanons Fryers and Pardoners If the D. say that Wickleue spake that not off the offices but off their abuse in popery that shift will not serue coÌ„sidering that he leaueth owt priestes and Deacons Wherof the priest especially doing more mischeife then diuerse which are reckened yet because he occupied the place off the pastor in euery congregacion which was the ordinance off God and was onely a deprauacion and deformitie off the trew ministerie he spareth him the other because they were deuised partlie herbingers to prepare his way partly purucâ—ers to interteine his estate he marked with the black cole off Antichristianitie Yf yt be further said that Wickleue should by this meanes condemne the estate off a bishop vvhich S. Paule alloweth off yt is manifest that he bet against the lord bishop which ruleth ouer other ministers in adiocese coÌ„sidering that he leaueth the priest the deformitie of the teaching minister which minister is all one as hath bene shewed with S. Paules Bishop Beside this reason they may as well saye he spake not against the office off Pope Chanons Monkes Friars Pardoners but onely against the abuse which is absurde This to the learned may better appeare by Pigghius discourse which confesseth that the Waldenses and Wickleue left the ordeâ— off priesthode as they call yt and that the whole question betwene them was not whether lord bishops and Archbishops did their dutie but whether they were lawfull estates Wherby appearethe that whosoeuer was the D. marchant these wares come from one off the filthiest puddels off popery and withall that as sone almost as there was any set and apparant estate of the churche which proclaimed open warre against Antichrist the letters off defiaunce were as well sent against the Archbishop and longehanded bishop as against the Pope Luther also after them writethe thus Bishops vvhersoeuer they be in all the vvorlde are equall to our bishops or parishe ministers and preachers of none caÌ„ yt be said one is lord an other a seruant they are off the same iudgement and vvhatsoeuer belongethe to the churche equally belongeth to all except that vvhich Paule teacheth some preacher or Christian may be off a sounder faith then other haue greater giftes then another interprete the scripture better then an other rule better then an other preache better and haue the discretion off spirites more then an other c. hovvbeit suche giftes cause no inequalitie or lordship in the church Here I will also set downe the iudgement off the reformed churches in Heluetia Zurich Berne Geneua Polonia Hungery Scotland c. who hauing reckened the ministries specified in scriptures add in the times follovving ther vvere many other titles off ministers brovvght into the churche For some vvere ordeined Patriarckes some Archbishops other Suffraganes also metropolitanes Archelders c. but for all those vve passe not ether vvhat they vvere in times past or are novv the Apostels doctrine of the ministers is sufficient for vs. Yf all these churches make no accounte off these offices not onely as they are now but when they were at the best if they esteme them withowt the doctrine of the Apostles I leaue to the readers iudgement what estimacion they had off them and how the D. woulde abuse vs that drawethe the sentences of the cheif in this coÌ„fession to proue their conuenieÌ„ce Neither do I dowbt but that our Archebishops and Bishops refusing to ioyne with the rest off the churches in this confession did it because they could not digest this morsell especiall Now to come to the D. that saith Epiphanius calleth vs heretickes which pinchethe vs. master Wickleue and the pore Waldenses bare yt at Pigghius hand we must do yt at the D. in dede so muche more pinching as yt commethe from him from whom yt least owght But what remedy the Lord will looke to it in time Howbeit because this arrow is as yt is said of Epiphanius a man subiecte to error shot owt off Pigghius bow one giuen vpp to error hauing no heade off the worde of God to make yt enter yt may peraduenture raise the skin but wounde yt can not make But Augustine reckenethe yt so but Augustine reporteth what he found written for towching his owne iudgement he is flat against Epiphanius which maketh a bishop aÌ„d an elder differ by the Apostels institution wheras Augustin as I haue shewed teacheth euen as Ierome that this difference was not by the word of God but by custome now I would know of the D. how Augustin can houlde that for an heresie which to leaue the rest can not be conuinced by the word off God but onely by a custome off the churche And here first he must either let goe his hould of Ierome or this of Epiphanius For if yt be trw that Epiphanius houldeth that a bishop and an elder differ by the Apostels institution then it is false which Ierome and others hould that they were all one at the first and that the difference came by custome Contrariwise if Ierome in that point say true as in dede he dothe then Epiphanius authoritie falleth Secondly yf the D. will preiudice this cause for that Epiphanius a Catholike thowght them to differ by the word off God where Aerius an heretike thowght them all one or els in that Augustin reckeneth that amongest his heresies by the same reason he must preiudice this trwthe that we owght not to praie or make any oblation for the dead For both Epiphan estemed him an heretike for his iudgement in that behalfe and Augustin reporteth this as one off his heresies which is catholike doctrine So that Pigghius might vse this autoritie better which condemnethe as well the one as the other then the D. which houldethe as I thincke for Catholike that which Aerius the hereticke affirmed and for hereticall which Epiphanius the Catholike condemned The flower off Epiphanius reasons browght before is answered now the D. distressed bringeth forth tag aÌ„d rag for towching Epiphanius saying the bishop by imposition off handes begetteth fathers 1. teachers to the churche vvhere the priestes begate onely sonnes yt is but asking off that in question when Aerius holding them both one by Gods institution the imposition off handes belonging vnto the bishop muste
not yet yt was hard for him to haue suche knowledge off so many churches wherby he might giue so precise a sentence especially if they be compared with ours which often haue heretikes euen vnder there nose and either see them not or looke throwghe their fingers Where to declare the vnlikelihoode off our bishops with thē in times past Theodoret bishop 26. yeares is shewed to haue had neuer a halfepennie c his answere is he professed voluntarilie pouertie Wherto I haue litle to replie but that the D. for aduantage spareth not the honour of his authors it being a great reproche in so great wealthe as the D. supposeth he might lawfully haue had to be so beggarly The next I leaue to the readers iudgement That the office off Archbishop and Patriarck by Caluin was nothing but to assemble the Synod propound the matter gather the voices c. I haue shewed condemning those names in the generall he must nedes condemne them in the particular for in bothe those names the word off dominion ys put which he condemneth That he condemneth the office with vs is clearer then the sunne and that in diuers sortes first generall in that vppon the Apostles wordes no man may take honour but he that is called as Aaron he denieth yt lawfull to set vp any gouernement in the churche at the pleasure off men vvithovvt vvaiting for the commaundement of God and that the church office deuised vvithovvt his commaundement and expresse ordinance is vnlavvfull Wherby appeareth that the admonitions allegacion which the D. other where calleth grosse is in effect as fyne as Caluins Secondly in that he dothe in flat wordes declare that the holie goste tooke great heede that one should not so much as dreame off principalitie and dominion in the gouernement of the churche Thirdly in that he dothe precisely mislike that any should haue postorall charge ouer a Prouince which he declareth yet more manifestlie when he saithe the gouernement of the highe priest vvhich vvas ouer one nation ▪ being a figure off our Sau. Christ ovvght not to be follovved Wherby appeareth how vntrwly he chargeth me otherwhere with falsifiyng Caluin for saying that his iudgement is that no one should be minister off a whole nation That onely which he liketh off and confesseth to haue bene done according to the word off God is that when there were controuersies to be voided one had the preheminence to assemble the companie c. which preheminence we haue before confirmed so far is yt from vs that we can not abide yt That it can not be drawen further appeareth by that in the beginning off this treatise where it is manifest he streineth him selfe to speake honorably off the maner off discipline in the elder churches yet he saith there vvas almost nothing againste the vvord off God. And further that althovvgh there may be some lack in their orders yet because they did it oft good mynd and erred not muche it is good to gather yt Moreouer towching that institution which off all other is most plausible and least princelike that one in a churche should haue the name off bishop which notwihstanding as hathe bene shewed had no dominion nor autoritie to commaunde the reste he saithe that autoritie had no institution nor ground ovvt off the vvord of God. Wherupon yt is manifest those wordes off Calu. the ould bishops did frame no kind off gouernement but prescribed in the lordes vvord can not be drawen further then I haue said Where he expoundeth Caluins wordes euery singular bodie off church a dioces or prouince yt is as all the rest off these diuisions a shamefull bouldnes considering that Calu. doth in expresse wordes shut forthe a prouince and in calling it a singular bodie vsed moste propre wordes to set forthe a congregation which assembled into one place may at once be fed at one mouthe Where also otherwhere he supposeth Calu. meant by Prouinces suche as are vnder diuerse gouernours because one Prouince in one particular church in one kingdome vnder one Prince is but one bodie c. to omit his absurd speache that a prouince is in a particular churche in stede that he should haue said a particular churche is in the prouince let it be obserued that in making the whole churche in a kingdome but that singular bodie Calu. speaketh off he maketh notwithstanding the churche in one prouince which is the halfe off that yea euery diocese to be that singular bodie So that one singular and vndiuisible bodie off a churche must be twentie and one off them also cōteining an other which is absurde yea by this meanes the church in a 100. Prouinces being vnder one Prince shall be but one singular bodie His reason that he can not meane a particular parish because euery one hath not many ministers is a cauill For it is enowghe that ther were diuerse in some churches as in the churche off Philippes wheroff he spake to draw him to that consideration Besides that there was as shall appeare in the particular churches appointed by the word off God an eldership amongest whom it was meete the same order shoulde be kepte Where he supposethe Caluin to haue thowght the churche off Geneua with all those belonging vnto yt to haue made but one bodie off a churche all see the D. pouertie driuen to leaue his wide workes to seeke some comforte in his thowghtes onely knowen to the lord If I shoulde vse the aduantage off that he spake and I hearde off vndowbted witnesses that althowghe he had no preheminence before the lowest Mynister but onely to propounde the causes gather the voices c. and was chosen therunto euerie two yeare yet he misliked that that small preheminence shoulde so long remaine with one as which in time might breed in conuenience likewise that I hearde my selfe off Maister Beza which misliked off yt for the same cause affirming it cōuenient that it shoulde be done by euerie Pastor off the same resort in his weeke wheroff there be also other witnesses I say yf I should vse this aduantage a great deale more honest then his all see how that chaunge of presidētes which he derideth and will haue my onely phantasie should beside the scripture alledged and vse off the churches in Fraunce haue the approbation off these godly learned men But when in deede he deride the their iudgement written I haue smale hope that he will beare any reuerence to it onely spoken Neither require I that he esteme any thing theirs which can not be conuinced owt off their writinges let him wreste and wring wind and turne his worst But that we be not streight with him admit Caluin so thowght dothe yt follow that becawse he estemed a singular bodie off a churche scarce 20. small parishes lying round abowt wheroff euery off the ministers at the least meete once a weeke bothe for exercise off prophesie or interpretacion off the
the name I driue it to the office If he had bene awake he should haue perceiued that the same reason I assigned why there was primacie in the ministrie off the law vnmeet for ours serueth also to shew why they might haue the title off Princes which ours may not For being the counseil of God in that superioritie to peint forth the chieftie off our Sauiour Christ it was moste conuenient that that shoulde be also written in the names Where I shewed the distribution off the Leuites offices not made off Dauid but by expresse commaundement off God he saith the Bishop hath answered that such negatiue argumentes are but weake So hee bringeth him in answering this reason after his death for in his life it was not propounded Howbeit I haue shewed how the argument holdeth and that the D. shift is Hardinges against the bishop confuted also by the bishop Nether did the bishop condemne here simply negatiue reasons but that negatiue which supposed there owght to be no name of archbishop because there was none vnder the law which he might worthely For I shewed that we meane nothing lesse then to conclude that of the precise gouernement off the churche vnder the law Nether is mine an argument off one example but of cōparison For if Dauid a figure off our S. Christ a man after Gods owne hart a Prophet would not meddle with altering any thing in the ministries withowt Gods word what man is he that shall dare doo yt withowt the same warrant By the Printers small ouersight in putting 1. for 2. the D. hath stumbled vpon a notable place that Iosaphat apointed Leuites c. for deciding the Lordes causes not onely in Ierusalē but for the whole countrey and made Amaries the priest chief ouer them yet no commaundement red of so to doo Which is vntrw For Iosaphat did nothing but commaunded off the Lord by Moses that there be in Ierusalem an Ecclesiasticall Senate wherof the high priest should be chief vnto which they should resort in difficult cases not able to be voided at home For otherwise there was a Senate erected by Iosaphat in euery strong cytie off Iury. The Ievves church vvanted nothing to that perfection vvherin the Lord vvould haue it then and many thinges vvere vndecided by the expresse vvord off God be friendes and doo well agree For both the perfection of yt then as ours now standeth if thinges cōstāt defined vpō there be also generall rules left in his word wherby thinges variable by circumstances may be compassed In the next reason for causes there assigned I will procede no further but leaue it onely to the readers iudgement likewise whether I haue shewed that there were vniuersities amongest Gods people before our S. Christes time and whether the D. if he had wherewithall woulde not contrarie it That Schooles are ciuill in heathenish commen wealthes and Ecclesiasticall in Christian is poore diuinity for so a Schoolemaster teaching Terēce or Professor reading Aristotle is become an Ecclesiasticall officer which hath nether ecclesiasticall election not ordinaciō and is often chosen onely of him that founded the Schoole Yea euery one that reacheth to play on instrumētes wherby mē may be apter to sing the lordes praises is one off the D. Eeclesiasticall officers His reason schooles are like the first nources of the true knowledge off God ys not good For beside that the Fathers howse is the first nource not the schoole by this reason the Father off the howshold that nourtereth his sonnes yea the mother that bringeth vp her dawghters in the feare off God shoulde be ecclesiasticall officers which are onely oeconomicall or house gouernours That bishops can not come in place off thapostles seing they were together with the Apostles is vnanswered That the D. alledgeth off Apostles being bishops is b before answered althowgh it be nothing to purpose for to haue confuted the replie he shoulde haue shewed that all bishops are Apostles where his places be to proue Apostles bishops For it followeth not if all Apostles were bishops that all bishops should be Apostles Where I shew that Archbishops could not come in place off Apostles if they vvere as Erasmus supposeth in their time because they should so preuent the time not vvayting for the Apostels death he answereth where the apostels could not be them selues there they appointed other which is fond For how followeth it that because they appointed others where they could not be them selues therfore they appointed archbishops As if they might not appoint Euangelistes or in euery particular church a Bishop Off Bishops appointed by the Apostles to conclude Archbis I haue shewed how sikly it is likewise how that bishops being the Apostles successours is to be vnderstanded Against my reasons that there is more libertie in instituting thinges in the commen vvealth here is nothing but bare denials In answering generally off all offices in the commen wealth a man not vtterly forsaken off his iudgement muste needes know that I had answered the example off Saul The answer to Chrysostome ys made before Where I shew that Titus presidentship in ordination off bishops implieth not perpetuall gouernement if it did yet not to helpe the archbishop yt is the D. part to shew that iudgement and gouernement be all one seing he imagineth it a staffe off his cawse But the reader may see that allthowgh the D. kepe open shop still yet his wares are vttered long sythens For I besech yow in this defense off the bishops answer besides his owne colewortes and bare repeticion off the Bishops reasons with some yeas and naes what hath he worthy the inuention of the meanest To the next diuis Further then I haue I will not answer the next also I leaue to the readers iudgement THe Councell off Antioch repeted here with the commentary is answered Where I shew no neede vvith vs of archbishops considering that the cause vvhy they vvere ordeined to call Synodes and propoūd the cavvses to be hādled in thē is ceassed vvith vs ▪ the D. in prouing that Emperours called generall Councells shooteth fayre but cometh nothing nere the mark For althowgh some prouinciall Councells were called by the Emperour yet yt is manifest both by the Coūcell of Nice and by this I alledged that decreed there should be 2. prouinciall Councels euery yeare wherin the Metropolitan should giue vvarning to the rest that the bishops might not hould a coūcell withowt his knowledge that the Metropolitan vvith the bishops aduise might hould a Prouinciall Councell It was doen I graunt by consent and sometime by expresse confirmacion off the Godly Princes as in other thinges perteining to the ministery their autoritie assisted when men refused to come to the bishops who were not able to compell them but the order off it vvas with the Bishops This althowgh it were not in the 9. canon yet whē the D. knew it was in that
councell as appeareth by his precise denying off it to be in that canon vvhere otherwise he would haue saied in that Councell it appeareth that he vseth lesse synceritie in thes holy matters then the Heathen â—n their prophane For Alexander counseilled to set vpon Darius in the night answered that he vvould not steale the victorie but the D. concealeth from his reader euen that which he knew my answer must needes discouer Where he saith our metropolitan calleth Synodes althowgh not prouinciall and propoundeth the matters first is nothing to the purpose for calling onely diocesan Synodes he doth nothing which a simple bishop may not aswell as he â–ª and therfore no cause vvhy there should be an archbishop in this respect Secondly all know that those Synodes he speaketh off are houlden for the moste pate by deputies at his appointement So that vvhich the D. vtterly condemneth in the Discipline vve propounde touching the chusing off a president euery Synod is doen here and that at the plrasure off one man not by consente off the mynisters yea by appointement off one for the moste parte no Ecclesiasticall person in matters perteining to the ministrie Thirdly I would know by what right the archbishop may call his diocesan Synodes â–ª yf by Ecclesiasticall then vvhy not also the Prouinciall considering that they are of one kinde ether both Ecclesiasticall or both cyuill Yf he do yt by ciuill autoritie vvhy doth he not aswel vvaite for the magistrates commandement in one as in the other He saith the archishops office consisting in sondry other thinges besides calling Synodes propounding matters ouerseing the limites owght not to ceasse althowgh he doo none off these Yt being manifeste that these were the cheife cawses vnder pretence wheroff he was browght in and especially to thend that controuersies and contentions amongest the mynistrie by Synodes called and ordered by him might he ended yt must follow that if wee may spare him for these we may easely be with owt him for the rest and so this is not for the amendement but for the ouerthrow off his surisoiction Because wee agree in the matter and I haue before shewed that the metropolitanes were appointed to ouersee that none passed his boundes I omit the iniury he dothe in supposing that I send him to the ninth Canon for that matter when as the word there by all indifferency owght rather to be referred to the councell in the text then to the canon in the margent Where I say that this ouersight off limites may be withowt an archbishop he sayth yt may be beste by him whereoff let the reader vpon the former allegations off both Sydes iudge where he affirmeth yt no good argument againste the archbishop that he doth not kepe the olde Canons owt off vse with vs seing our archbishop houldeth off those in times past and hath for his cheifest defense that there where archbishops in times paste all see if there be not the same causes off them now that were then how at the least this hould is throwne downe Where I shew that our archbishop in giuing licences to preach in a dousen dioceses at the leaste breaketh the same order for the keping vvheroff he vvas ordeined he answereth yt is profitable Where beside the vntruth before shewed he condemneth that order off the Councell off Constantinople that decreed against that wandring and ouerthroweth one off the cawses wheruppon the metropolitans office standeth That parte off the difference of the metropolitan from other bishops rose off the commoditie off the citie and for that yt vvas honoured vvith the Emperours courte is manifest by the encrease and decrease lifting vp and throwing downe off the authoritie off the Patriarch all seates That the Emperour might make the metropolitan seate which he would I well vnderstood seing I set it downe before but the question to where yt is meetest the Archbishop should be if there must be one And my reason was forsomuche as the place moste fyttest hath well and happely wanted him therfore our churche may be well without him His trifling in the two translations argueth that to fill vp he careth not if his reader peele strawes for nothing â—ether off them is againste that I setdowne The cauil against my order becawse I come from the councel of Antioche backe to Cyprian is too simple For yt is not as his for one matter but for diuers beside that I reprehended him for that yt skilleth much to obserue the order off times when question was off the time and antiquitie of tharchbishop Whether Cyprians wordes do flatly forbid any one bishop to haue autoritie ouer an other muche les ouer all I leaue yt be iudged off that before likewise how honeste an exception yt is againste this sentence that yt was spoken in a Councell where an error was decreed also in what sense I called Cyprian metropolitan further how vntrwe yt is that he which denieth the autoritie of one bishop ouer an other exempteth the ministers either from cyuill or ecclesiasticall subiection or punishement Lastly what a cauil yt is that when the correction of the disorders in the ministrie is gyuen to the cyuill magistrat the prince therby is ouercharged Now if the reader finde vpon the discourse before that the churche well gouerned in Cyprians time had no archbishop nor metrapolitane that had autoritie ouer others when there was moste neede considering there was then no christian bishops Then yt is manifeste that there is now les cawse when wee haue a Christian magistrate which alledged here by me the D. him selfe althowgh he had good will to bite at durst not come neere His cauill that I alledged this canon falsely attributed vnto the Apostels is answered beside that I shew that yt being falsely assigned to them is notwithstanding the true canon off the Councell off Antioche The Canon is as I haue alledged nothing nether added nor diminished which might disaduaÌ„tage the D. cause any â—ote whether the bishop according to that canon may doo that which apperteineth vnto his owne parish without the archbishop whether the archishop taketh matters owt off their handes concludeth them not making the bishops prime contrary to the tenure off that canon which the D. denieth I leaue to the readers iudgement his especially which hath seene the marchandise and trafique off his courtes And it may partly appeare by the boke off the 7â— archbishops where Canterbury is made the head off all our churches all bishops svvorne to canonicall obedience off that archbishop and defense off all Priuiledges and liberties of that seate â–ª Where the bishop off London is his deane to cal synodes to publishe his decrees to make retourne off th execution VVinchester his Chauncelour Lincolne his vice chancelour Salisburie his chanter VVorcester his chaplaine Rochester his cros bearer when that bagage was Wher his autoritie is said to haue no certeine boundes but almost as
but Iesus Christ Lastly so many of them as shall be founde to maintaine all therrours in this packe of the D. I dare wil pronounce that they are deplier ploÌ„ged in error then any of those ould bishops which keping the foundacion erred in the reste off the building wheroff vpon that alledged off both partes let the iudgement be the readers What their honestie off lyfe is which is another pointe wherin he compareth oures with the elder bishops I will not further medle especially seing that whether there life be good or bad can hardly be hidden Althowgh for any imperfections he sheweth that waie in the fathers he might as well haue made ours equal with thapostels them selues amongest whom there was contention as amongest the ould bishops That the 5. Canon of the 2. Councell of Tyron he stombled one is against me and my likes which leaue our calling is from the purpose and vntrw as hath bene shewed That my collector deceiued me in the councell because yt is nether the firste nor second is meere trifling seing my allegacion is mainteined yff yt be as yt ys in deed the third this faulte being by all lykelihood some others then mine Considering that I found yt trwly noted in my paper booke from whence I toke yt I may rather say that his deceiued him and was herin somewhat to well skilled in Greke which for Hierapolis a Cytie in Phrygia wheroff Papias was bishop tould him that he was of Ierusalem Where I compared the councell which decreed that no bishop sitting in any place shoulde suffer a mynister or elder to stande â–ª vvith the behauiour off our bishops tovvards the ministers he staggereth on this and that side But his drifte is that yt is the bishops right that they should stande and he syt wherein he accuseth the councell off gyuing yt away from them Then he will haue yt in their discretion that yt may belike serue for a brake to break prowd stomacks But what if the bishop being prowd the ministers be humble surely by this reason yt shoulde be rather in their discretioÌ„ to make the bishop syt or staÌ„de before theÌ„ For they often beaten with pouertie learned humilitie which he throwgh sodain wealth yf he had any before may easely forget Yf there be such high minded ministers yt is meete their pride be otherwise corrected then by this vncanonicall crowching both to blowe vp the bishops heart in pride and to drawe the rest with their ministerie into conâ—â—mpt whilest both equall in office and sometime superiour in giftes they haue harder intertainement off them then many off the better sorte off Seruantes haue at the handes off their maisters So that where they are by the lawe off God the bishops fellowes the poore ministers thincke them selues well dealt with yf they may be admitted for compagnions off his seruantes as if my lord bishop onely were Shepard ouer the people and al the rest were Swinardes I omitt that some of them are content that a Iustice off peace yea off Quorum as I haue heard staÌ„d before them with their cappes in hand which how neere yt is to dispising off powers wheroff the Apostle speaketh let all iudged To that alledged off the traine off vvaiting men before and after condemned in all bishops in the person off Samosatenus he answereth he was condemned for hauing Souldiours and for walking the streets which is friuolous For there was no more likelihood off a capitaine in him then in our bishops sauing that where he was waited vpon with speares peraduenture according to the seruing mens fashion off the countrie oures are folowed with swordes and bucklers He is generally there spokeÌ„ against for his pompe as that he vvas like vnto men in vvorldly dignitie and made him a throne or pulpit like a Prince And for his men not onely because they had spears but because they were in great nomber Now if this were damnable in a bishop to be like a ptince or vvordly potentate yt is manifeste that our bishops for thir traine are vnder the same condemnation Gregorie also althowgh not in the same chap. off Ruffin entred as well as George and before him with a troupe off men into the bishoprik off Alexandria owt off which Athanasius was wrongfully put and that is with other thinges reproched him althowgh they were lent by the gouernours He saith it appeareth by these examples that bishops had riches and autoritie which is absurd seing him self confesseth and the storie maketh mention that they enioyed this by vniust meanes and churche robberie I graunt the bishop was steward off great aboundance but not to his owne vse That euery teacher in the churche was called Rabbi those know which haue any skill in the toung from whence it was taken So that what honour the D. can draw to the ministrie by that word groweth no more to the bishop then to all other teachers and it conteined a profession off obedience in respect off those that were tawght not in respect of one teacher towardes an other If the Euangelistes had turned it Lord which I corrected in the second edition yet the degre off superioritie signified by this word Lord must be very small Seing yt was vsed by a women off honest estate to one whom she supposed no other but a gardener Where therfore he would proue that the word Lord gyuen to Athanasins by the Synod signifieth some high degree and autoritie becawse the Emperour and his nobles were called onely Lordes withowt other addition he trifleth seing it is manifest by that alledged that with theÌ„ being a coÌ„men title almost to the basest sort of men yt had no such honour shut in yt as he pretendeth but was great or small according to the persons yt was applied vnto So that or euer that word will help him he must shew that the bishops then were set in great owtward dignitie Where also he would make the reader belieue that the Synode called Athanasius Lord off the priests of Alexandria yt is but to abuse him when that word as the greke is gyuen to any of meane estate and is as much with vs as Syr. And not with vs alone but in diuerse other countreis which speake so to any of meane condition yet the D. turneth it alwaies my Lord. Wherby he lordeth those which haue no lordship to mainteine them nor maÌ„ to waite vpon them yea as I haue shewed thus we shall haue my Lord gardenkeper then which what can be more ridiculous And that it was not the Councels meaning to make Athanasius Lord off the elders in Alexandria â–ª appeareth manifestly by that I haue alledged off the elders off Alexandria which call him their fellovv minister withowt any other title Wherin they should be too vnmanerly and vndutifull if he were as it seemeth the D. woulde beare vs in hand their Lord. Which dalying may yet better appeare in that Alexander bishop off Alexandria writing to
before yt came into the church off the Christians yt vvas as diuers other corruptions taken off them by imitation whether a thirde and more higher cawse theroff were that the brauery of the pourpled vvhore of Rome might bothe easelier take her seate and faster houlde yt vvhilest other bishops vvere made somevvhat sutable vnto her vvhich she could not haue done if other bishops left in the simplicitie vvherin God had apointed them she had bene as an ovvle amoÌ„gest the reste of the birdes I say whether these three are amongest the causes off bringing in the bishops pompe into the churche I leaue to the readers iudgement Considering that the D. beside begging and dissembling the matter which I goo abowte to proue hathe nothing That Christians might aswel be thowght to haue folowed Maximinus in building churches as in sufficiently prouiding for the ministers ys to simple seing we deny hym not sufficient prouision But if he esteme nothing sufficient onles he be mainteined as a lord let him learn off S. Paul what is sufficient and so he shal I doubt not fall from his 1000. to a 100. vnto thes three causes off the bishoplike statelines I will heer ad the fourth worthy to be obserued M. Bucer shewing the incommodities which came by that the bishops vvere receiued to bear ciuill offices saith after they began to occupie the place off princes they chalenged also to them selues their pompe and brauery So let the reader iudg how trw yt ys that I said that our archbishops bishops c. besides the names haue almost nothing commenvvith those of elder times and hovv if the old bishops vvere aliue they vvould not knovv one annother For that they vvould thinke ours princes and ours vvoulde esteme them as hedge priÌ„estes What I allow off the oulde Canons and what I disalow althowgh he dissemble yet he knoweth better then he would I hauing at large declared yt in this Tractate The first diuis I oâ—â—it In the next to that the Apostle called the Corint to a moâ—â—rate estimacion of the ministers meane betvveen contempt and to much exalting them vpon occasion that the false Apostels were to much lifted vp he saith yt was a partial affection to wardes their teachers not in respect off any title which is friuolous for if it be denied generally that they shoulde not be so mounted then the way is stopped against titles and offices and other meanes whatsoeuer wherby that may grow Beside that the D. is afraied as appeareth by his answer to be browght vnto a moderation and meane betvvene contempt and excessiue estimacion Where I shew that as the false Apostels pompe in preaching lifting them vp aboue the faithfull ministers caused the faithful ministers to be contemned so the pompe of our bishops lifted vp aboue the rest off the pastors to be a ready vvay to bringe their mynisterie ovvt off credit and that as that gaue occasion to the Corinthes to saie I houlde off suche a teacher c. so this giueth occasion to say I vvil beleue my Lord Bishop or my lord Archbishop vvhatsoeuer our parson say for they be vvise men and learned I say to all this beside wandring and vnlikely slaunders there is not a word seing I trust it appearethe to all that we giue no occasion by any pompe that the people in magnifying off vs should condemne others The next diuision I leaue to the reader Where against the D. slaunder off the Admonitions intent to take away princes I shewed that his practise against vs is the same vvith the Pharisies against our Sauiour Christ vvhich being rubbed for their ambition accused him as no friend off Cesar He answerethe that we are not Christ which is ridiculous that the case is not like whereof let the reader iudge seing he is as they were honour pricked Whether our Archbishop dvvell as far asonder almost from the ciuil magistrate as Rome and Ierusalem let the reader iudge off that alledged likewise what a coÌ„ning stargaser the D. is which saw in the star off my forehead that the admonition intended the ouerthrow off the ciuill magistrate The nexte off the canon off Antioche Councel is answered but where I shew that that Canon is not like to be iustifiable considering that it sovvght falsely â—â—edite off the name off the apostels he answereth not Onles this be his answer that yt is the naturall Canon off the apostels And in deede his wordes so sound for thus he saithe That canon off the Apostels is repeated in this councel as diuers off the Nice be repeated off other councels Which how shamfully yt is spoken may appeare off that we haue before disputed off the antiquitie off the metropolitane How dangerously to the ouerthrow off our faithe whilest we are borne in hand that there be canons of the Apostels not coÌ„teined in the canonicall scripture al that haue iudgement may vnderstand and yt is in parte before declared I omit that yt is cleane contrary to his doctrine off the archbishop wherby he maketh him an officer changeable at the wil of the Prince For if that be thApostles Canon there is no ministery in the holde scripture which hathe better euidence for an vnchangeable perpetuitie then yt That M. Bucer is wholy for vs in this point I refer the reader to that before written The place alledged here would haue made litle for him if he had not kepte his custome For where Bucer speaketh off obedience to be gyuen by the bishops to the metropolitan he hath left owt these wordes after their maner By vvhich conning he may proue the Acthiopian afaire man because he hath white teeth For all see that M. Bucer by these wordes delaied the autoritie off the metropolitanship And if they were not plaine enowgh yet others in the same place are that the patriarches vvere set ouer the metropolitanes as they ouer the bisho â–ª but that nether could doe any thing saue onely admonish those ouer vvhoÌ„ they vvere set aÌ„d if they obeied not to complaine of them to the synod After he condemneth that the Patriarches toke vnto them the ordination off the bishops nigh them and by meanes therof by litle and litle gat some iurisdiction ouer those bishopes and their churches So appeareth that if there be any difference here touching these offices betwene vs and M. Bucer yt is onely that where we affirme yt good that the presidentship should be chosen at euery meeting as that which cometh neerer the apostels example and more safe against Tyranny M â–ª Bucer may seem to make yt a standing and continuall office set â—â— in one man For as towching his autority wherin the chief poinct off the controuersie lieth yt findeth as smal grace with M Bucer as with vs. Whatsoeuer is here is answered sauing the contrarietie assigned betwen this an Apostle vvas aboue an Euangelist and that there was chiefrie euen amongest the apostels in that one labored more and
had more excellent giftes then another which how manifest an argument yt is that the archbishop hathe robbed him off all sense let the reader iudge Sauing also that he signifieth that the difference betweene the Apostels must be in autoritie not in excellency off giftes or laboures Considering that there was amongest them in those poinctes a most perfect equalitie Which how absurd yt is may be considered in that some had the gifte off continencie which other some had not some trauailed with their handes for their liuing which other did not aÌ„d in that S. Paul is said expresly to haue laboured more then they all To the nexte beside bare affirmations and slaunders ofte repeted he answereth nothing To the ninth I answer not That the greke worde 2. Gal. 2. signifieth for the most parte to seeme can not be denied Whether there be any necessitie to chaunge this vsual aÌ„d ordinary signification in that place I leaue to the reader Seing first the same word in that chapter is twise so turned where the same bothe matter and persons are spoken off seing also yt is confessed by M. Beza which corrected yt that the apostle speaketh not according to his owne but according to the sense off his aduersaries Thirdly seing the cause which moued Erasmus and M. Beza to departe from that translation for that ther is nothing ioined to declare vvherin that seeming and apparance shoulde be is not so vrging For S. Paul vseth ofte suche shorte and cut speaches which are to be supplied by other places off his as M. Beza him self sheweth in the same chap. vers 6. I omit the nomber off interpreters which haue folowed the oulde in this behalfe Howbeit I confesse that if I had knowne that I had in this pointe to doe with the Geneua M. Bezas and Erasmus translation and Budies autoritie I would for reuerence off their learning haue vse â–ª an easier worde in dissenting nether wil I striue about yt witâ—â—he D. yt making litle ether off or on to the matter in hand seing the reason alledged by the adm and mainteined by me standeth still against the archbishop For if Saint Paul were in nothing inferiour vnto Saint Peter one of those cheif there meÌ„tioned and yf the making of S. Peter to haue autoritie ouer Saint Paul be the ouerthrow of S. Pauls argument then yt foloweth that thadm aptly alledged that place againste the archbishop Nether can it be alledged to proue any degree of honour the in ministery not onely because the price which the Galatheans had off those by suggestion off the false Apostels was excessiue in that they preferred those three before S. Paul but also for that off men in the same degree and autoritie one may iustly be honoured more then an other in respecte off giftes more excellente in him then in the reste Where I shewed that our Sa. Christs calling is auowed iust because yt was coÌ„teined in scripture he saith the apostel onely shewed by scripture that he intruded not him self but was called off god Where the testimonies put as causes off this that he did not glorifie him selfe muste be also cawses off his vocation and that in suche sorte that if those and suche like testimonies had not bene his vocation coulde not haue bene iustified where he saith none can iustifie his calling if it were not lawfull withowt suche a personall testimonie as our Sau. Christ had we presse not all the circumstances Ther being no more in that kinde off office but he alone the testimonie off it must needes be personall Yt shall be sufficient for him to shew that the Archbishops haue the same testimonie off the worde which the bishops or pastours To the next I answer not In the next there is nothing but bare affirmacions answered before To that alledged that if all the church vvere in one Prouince and one ouer them all in trauailing vvith an archbishop he should bringe forthe a pope he answereth that can not be the churche being scattered throwghout the worlde Which I graunte hauing respecte vnto Gods election and calling hidden from vs but that the churche established in a visible and apparant from may not which God foâ—â—id be browght into one land I hetherto heare no reason he saâ—th further that the church after the ascension being in Ierusalem onely yf yt had had one bishop should by my reason likewise haue had a pope which is vntrew For we ioine with the pastor and that in equal autoritie of gouernement thelders off the church condemning al monarchicall gouernement in the pastor The rest is aÌ„swered The next is answered before Accused for charging the adm to haue vsed the papistes reasons he saith he may vvel doo yt but reason he can shew none He denieth that he woulde proue one archbishop ouer a prouince by one kinge ouer a realme yet beside he flatly affirmeth that the forme off gouernment in the church must be according to that of the coÌ„mon wealthe driuen to the wal yt is his coÌ„mon refuge that by the same reason we easte away Archbishops we may likewise depose kinges His whole answer almost heer is cloured off diuers diuisions before where he hath reply And yet suche is his forehead that althowgh he haue heer set before me a charger off Colewories yet for answering them with repetition off one line in as few wordes as if I had onely referred him to the former treatise he shameth not to say that I vse nothing almost but repetitions To that alledged out of Caluin that the churche dothe cleane one part vnto an other vnder our Sau. Christes dominion according to the order and forme off policiÌ„e vvhich he hathe prescribed and therfore not by a bishop of a diocese or archbishop as those vvhich he praescribed not he answereth that he speaketh off the spirituall gouernement and not off the externall wherby he maketh Caluin a trifling disputer For the Papistes which will haue the pope a ministeriall head vnder Christe Confesse that he alone gouerneth inwardly and secretly by his spirit but that their pope is a meanes wherby he doth yt Therfore Cal. in saying that that is doen by the order and forme off policie prescribed off God stopped vp that corner against them And beside that yt will be hard for him to shew that the inwarde working off God by his spirit is called an order and forme off policie let him answer where that order and forme off policie off the lordes secret working with his spirit is prescribed seing the worke thereof ys as the voice of the wind which we hearing can not tel from wheÌ„ce yt cometh nor whetâ—â—â— yt will and seing the lord commaunding his ministers to doe their dwtie reserueth to him selfe the manner and order how and when he will worke in wardly Secondly he answereth that this policie off our Bishop and Archbishop is praescribed althowghe not particularly expressed in his word as if the
force off this worde prescribed were not more then contemed and asmuche as his particularly expressed But I haue shewed that he requireth also that al church officers be expressed in the worde and what expressed meaneth is before obserued The reader to make vp his mouth with aÌ„d as yt were for a ban quetting dish hathe the next whole chapter off repetitions which ys answered and so is the nexte vnto yt Thus we are by the grace off god come to an ende off this treatise wherin let the reader iudge whether yt hathe bene proued that the offices off archbishops and archdeacons be vnlawfull that they came not into the church 300. yeares after the ascension off our Sa. Christe that there names are likewise vnlawfull by the worde forbiddeÌ„ by auncient councels not to be founde in any auncient writing before 400. yeares approched Further whether that euery congregation owght to haue a bishop that one onely may haue two or moe that they owght all to haue like titles and autoritie Sauing that in their meetings for orders sake one by consent of the rest gouerneth that action in suche sorte as is declared That all these pointes off the bishop haue grounde off the word off God and moste off theÌ„ shewed to haue remained some time after thapostels and the traces loÌ„ge after Finally whether that euen the elder Bishops when they were declined from the synceritie off gods ordinance and the archbishops and archdeacons which he neuer ordeined were much more tollerable then ours as those whose autority was without comparison les and pompe none at all Esr 6. 15. Neh. 2. â— a Esr 4. 12 Neh. 6. 1. b Neh. 6. 10. 17. 18. 19. c Esr 4. 12 c. Neh. 2. 19. d Lib. de haeres nost tep e l. 2. de legit iudic reruÌ„ eccl. f lib. 5. de cathol eccles a M. Cap i to vnto M. Farel in the boke off M. Cal. Epist b Vpon 4. Ephes c In the life off M. Calu. d pa 299. 27. line pag. 459. 47. lin item pa. 560. lin 5. item pa. 646. li. 29. c. Calu. in his praeface to the psames Act. 22. 20 Iob 31. 35 36. pag. 33. pag. 55. pag. 33. pag. 33. pag. 354. pa. 12. 34. 20. Act. 27. August 2. lib. Serm. de moÌ„te Sozom. 6. lib. 20 c. Cicero â— li. de nat deorum Pag 25. pag. 799. pag. 709. Pag. 586. Pag. 48. Pag. 781. a pag. 12. pag. 446. b In this boke pa. 154. li. 16. c pa. 225. d pa. 354. pag. 173. p. 241. 283 a pag. 207 b pa. 412. c pag. 123. d pa. 1. 9. e pa. 423. pa. 4. 8. 9 12. pag. 1. 20. c. pag. 707. In orat pro Muraena pag. 16. a Arist in his Rhetorick ad Theodecten a Herâ—clitus b Act. 23. 5 1. Cor. 4. 10. 2. Cor. 11. 19. 12. 13. c August 15. l. coÌ„tra Faust Manich c. 4. pag. 156 Exo. 18. 25 Deut. 1. 15 pag. 157. pag. 198. off this boke Decad 5. serm 4. Psal 69. 4. Psal 35. 11 pa. 10. 14. 118. 171. 195. pag. 2. 16. 27. 72. 89. 280. 593. 656. pag 16. pag. 20â— Genes 25. 22. In M. Cal. Epistles Nomb. 13 28. c. Genes 25. 23. Nehem. 3 Neh. 2. 5. pag. 40â— 1. 2 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 14. 15. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 17. 13. 14. 15. 16. 18. 19. 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. 29. 30. 31. 32. 33. 34. 35. 36. 37. 10. Esâ—â— â–ª Esay 60. 12. 1. Reg. 15. Act. 10. Cyp. lib. 2. epist. 3. 23 Leui. Iam. 2. 5. Act. 17. Schelomo Iarchi Esra 8. ca 15 vers 2. Tim. 3. 1 epist. 4. Rom. 3. vpon the 86. Psal Epist 18. epist. 48. Against Maxim. â— the Arrian 3. 14. chap. De vnitate ecclesiae cap. 3. Contr Iulian PelagiannÌ„ lib. prim lib. de natur grat Ier. 3. To praefat in Iob. Ioâ—â—â—â— â–ª Iohn 6. 66. Ier. 3. To praefat in Iob. Num. 11. 25. Act. 15. Iohn 10. 24. Iud. 5. 10. Mala. 2. 3. Phil. 3. 8. Lib. 3. c. 4 1. Cor. 11. ca. 18. 19. Mat. 1 â–ª Ephes 4. 13. Coloss 3. 10. Acta Ratilboncusia Quà m ipsaruÌ„ scripturaruÌ„ verbis expressa ipsis tamen scripturae verbis implicida 9. Iosuah 14. Deut. 20. 1. Sam. 21. 2. Iosue 1. Reg. 9 2. Sam. 7. 7. 1. Chron. 17. 6. In the 29. diuisioÌ„ of the first Article In the defence off the Apologie 5. parte ca. 15. diuision 1. 6. Rom. 8. Rom. 1. Cor. 3. 12. Col. 3. 19. 2 Pet. 2. 1. Math. 26. â—3 35. 2. Proue 12. 5. 1. Cor 10. 1. Tim. 4. 14. Rom. Cie 1. off Caluin vpoÌ„ the cpistle and Insti l. 3. ca. 15. s 5. 1. Cor. 10. Mat. 5. 29. Gal. 6. 18. Mat. 6 1. Cor. 8. 11. Rom. 14. 15. 20. Bucer vpon the 18. of S. Math. 1. Cor. 14. Rom. 14. 19. Rom. 14. 24. epist. 1. Cor. 5. 2 Tim. 2. 18. 1. Tim. 2. 20. 2. Cor. 13. Pag. 667. 1. Tim. 5. 8. sect pa. 5. off his booke 22. Exo. Num. 15. 30. 31. 32. 10. Heb. 28. 19. Deut. Chron. 2. 15. â— Esra 26 ver 27. 28 2. Chro. 6 Prou. 8. 6. Mat. 5. Hosius de tradit Contr. literas petit lib. 3. cap. 6. Cypri in ser de bapti Chr. De praescript advers haeret 2. lib. ad â—â—xorem De Monogam De coron militis 65. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 20. Li. 4. con Don. ca. 23. De bapt contr Donatist 5. lib. 23. ca. epist. 119. lib. de spirit sanct 〈…〉 Aristot ad Theode Vpon 2. Tim. 3. Cal. Institu 4. cha 20. s 15. Bez. in his booke of putting Here. to death Ephes 2. Beza in his former booke 1. Cor. 9. Deu. 25. 4. 1. Cor. 9. 1. Iohn â— Deut. 19. 13. Rom. Leuit. 19. 29. Iob. 31. 11. Gen. 26. 11. Gen. 38. 24. Nomb. 35 33. 34. Gen. â— Math. 26 Iohn 18. 31. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In theÌ„ c. of punis of forbidden lust In his com vpp Iohn Har. in Mo. super iudic 7. mandati Har. in c. 13. v. 5 Deut. Rom. 6. Rom. 13. Prouer. 6. Deut. 13. 9. ver Deut. 17. 7. ver In the next treatise 4. lib. off the liffe off Const 1. lib. 9. cap. Iulius firmicus Materâ—us 1. Rom. epist. 11. 14. 20. 83. pag. 130. Pag. 133. Act. 1. 23. 1. Tim. â— ver 10. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Plut. 1. li. Epi. 4. 4 li. 3. ca. 3. cap. 15. s 4. li. 5. c. 2. s pag. 133. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pag. 135. Pa. 25. Rom. 1. 12 Act. 18. 26. Socrat. 1. 8 Sozom 1. 18. 1. Cor. â— 5 Vpon the 1. Act. Ma. Beza vpon the 14. of the actes Vpon the 5. of S. Pa. to Timo. ver 22. Vpon the first vnto Titus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ImperiuÌ„ 6. Act. Act. 1. Act. 14. Ansvv to his first question 1. Act. 13. Act. 14. Act. Act. 6. 3. 5. To his
described cccâ—xlix ccccliij Whether refer that the archbishop and bishop are nue ministeries ccccxxxviij Likewise that the first step to this kind off bishoprik began at Alexandria and not in Sion or Ierusalem and that it was after the Apostles times dxlviij Also the first step of preheminence to an archbishoprik ouer many bishops was but a litle before the Nicene Councel cccclxxxv That both this bishop and archbishop had their beginning by bare custome and not by the institution off God cccclxxxv dlxviij These two last pointes being expreslie shewed off the bishops and archbishops may be easely vnderstanded to be true in the Archdeacons and deanes by that dj dxxxvj diiij Yt ys further shewed off the archbishop that hâ— was not in steed of Archflamins instituted by S. Peter as 〈◊〉 pretended cccclxix Where is shewed that there were no Arâ—â—â—lamins vnder the Romain Empire cccclxxj not in England especially in the time supposed cccclxxij We refuse them also for that they exercise dominion Forbidden precisely vnto Ecclesiasticall persons 20. Mat. and 1 â–ª Pet. 5. ccccxxj ccccxxxj Declared in the example off S. Peter which had no autoritie giuen him aboue the rest off the Apostles but was in such respect equall dcvij Here are confuted the endes off instituting this autoritie Whereoff one is pretended to assemble rhe Synodes and to propound the matters dcxij dlxxxij Wherto belongeth that of those otherwise equall it is meet to auoid confusion that one by choise of the rest should rule the action and that yt is not meet that this should be perpetuall ccccxxij Which is conâ—â—â—ed by the example off S. Peter chosen therto by the Apostles and not perpetually dcxcvij made plaine by the examples off the elder and french churches now dxiâ—x The other pretended cause is to remedie contentions ccccxlvâ—ij â–ª dxlix dl dlxxiâ—ij dlxxxij Here also is shewed that he is the cause off contention dlxxix Which being shewed in the bishop and archbishop perteineth in part also to the archdeacon and deane Further against this dominion serueth that they are fellow seruantes fellow brethren in office ccccxx viij dxlv Also for that order and degrees stand withowt them ccccxxvij dcij This ys further declared by comparison of the elder archbishops and bishops with ours dxciiij dcxliiij Namely of Cyprians dxlvj and Ieroms dlxviij Likewise of the elder Archdeacons with ours dij And deanes with ours diiij That the Nicene Councell is far from mainteining the autoritie off our metropolitan dlxij So are the Councels off Antioch and Arles dlxv That Epiphanius Archbishop stood not in autoritie but in excellency off giftes dlx Here vpon we condemn as in all Ecclesiasticall ministers so in these foure al loftie titles as those which are annexed to dominion Wherunto perteineth that names are not alwaies indiffereÌ„t 408 And first the giuing high titles of ciuil honour as those which put a differeÌ„ â—â— betwene the ciuil aÌ„d ecclesiast officer ccccvj ccccxxiij As forbid â–ª 〈◊〉 precisely 22. Luk. cccciiij namely that the bishop Archbishops â—nd by the same reason deanes ought not to be called lordes hauing regard to the vse of our contrey ccccvij dclv Also that the title off Prince part off the Archbishops and Archdeacons name breaketh vpon the possession off the ciuil magistrate ccccvij Secondly in Ecclesiasticall titles we denie vnto them to be called heades off the churches Where is shewed first that that title agreeth vnto no simple creature The causes wheroff are ccccxij The absurdities which folow the giuing off it to any other then to our San. Christ ccccxj The approbation off writers nue and ould that he is onely head ccccxiij The same shewed off the name off Archbishop cccix Hetherto belongeth that it was not so sone in the west partes as in the East ccccxciiij That yt is not shewed to haue bene giuen to any but with condemning off yt in any alowed writer vntill about 380. yeares ccccxcv Wherto perteineth that nue writers gyuing yt to ministers of elder times are shewed to haue doen it according to the times wherin not whereoff they wrote cccclxxxj ccccxcv Likewise that the name metropolitan is not off the same value with archbishop cccclxxxvij And that it is not shewed to haue bene before the Councell off Nice ccccxciiij Also that the Councels off Carthage houlden about ccl and 400. yeares doe forbid this name ccccxcviij Finally hether perteineth that off the counterfait canons off the Nicene Councell handled cccclxxxviij And the counterfait book off Ambrose which mentioneth the archbishop ccccxcj Likewise the name of Arch deacon is not shewed vntill about 400. yeares page 502. Nor off the deane vntill about the same time page diiij Furthermore vpon this that dominion is forbidden them is also forbiddeÌ„ their other pomp off lije Wherof vnto the three causes assigned in my former book xcviij Is added the fourth â—â—0 off this book This ys shewed by comparison off the elder bishops with ours in their apparel houses houshould stuf fare traine off men dcxlxij c. Further that the most part off the riches wherwith this pomp is mainteined is the commen treasure off the church for mainteinance off the miâ—sters which want off the poore and off the vniuersities and th … in this point they haue succeded vnto those which got the 〈◊〉 sacriledge dcxlix Further we refuse the archbishop and archdeacon for that they haue larger charges then they are or can be sufficient for Hetherto perteineth that all the ordinary ministers owght to be appointed to a place and that that place is a particular congregacion no diocese nor prouince ccxcvj ccclx Where the D. corruption drawen from the Papistes is confuted Hether also perteineth that Denis did not deuide parishes Prouinces and dioceses ccclviij Hether also perteineth that by the word off God there may and owght if the case require be moe bishops in one particular congregation â—â—n one dxxvij The traces theroff in the church long after the Apostles time page dxxviij dlâ—â— Likewise that there owght by the word off God to be in euery particular congregation one bishop dxv Hether refer the causes off the falling away of this order which were naught dxx Likewise that care ouer churches inferreth not necessarily charge ouer them dcxxij That the iurisdiction they had owt off their particuler churches was nothing but a reuerend estimation page dxxxij Hetherto perteineth the vse off the church long after the Apostels times ccc Also that the elder bishops were called bishops off parishes cccclxxvâ—ij The examples off Demetrius dxlij off Cyprians bishop aâ—most through the whole 3. chapter off the last Tra. off Cornelius 540. 556. of Dionysius Alexandrinus 558 Gregorie 5â—9 Peter Alexandrinus â—60 Athanasius 56â— Ambrose 492. Al which alledged by the D. as bishops off prouinces were ether of one particular church or off the churches in one onely ciâ—â—e or at the least had far les compas by the twentith part then our bishops This
howshoulde considering that he opposeth the gouernement off his howse to the gouernement of the church yt followeth therfore that he appointeth hym to one particular church That by this word church must be vnderstanded one of thes three significacions yt standeth vpon this grownd that in none off S. Paules other Epistles or S. Lukes writinges that word church is euer vsed otherwise and neuer signifieth the church ether off Prouince or Dioces For when the Apostles vtter the companie off belieuers in such a circuit they alwaies speake in the plurall nombre and call them the churches of such and such a place And if it can be shewed that this word is taken in them for the faithful in a whole prouince or dioces I will giue ouer the hould of this argument If as I perswade my self that can not be doon then the church assigned vnto S. Paules bishop is a particular congregacion Moreouer S. Paul writing to Tite to appoint Elders throwgh euery towne which were vnblamable addeth because a bishop must be vnblamable Wherupon ether euery towne must haue a bishop or his reason is not well knit For he should both giue his rule off one thing and his reason off an other and it should come to passe that those churches vvhich haue no bishops might lawfully haue slaunderous and spotted bishops seing his onely reason why elders of euery towne owght to be withowt reproche is because a bishop must be so Againe vvhere it is saide that Paule and Barnabas apointed by voice elders in euery churche ether beside the auncientes off the churche the Bishop was ordeined or els the famous cities of Antioche I conium and Listra in the number of those churches there mencioned receiued no bishop But the Ans him selfe affirmeth that the Apostels ordeined bishops in the principall cities and townes therfore vnder thes wordes ▪ they ordeined elders by voice in euery churche ys vnderstanded that they ordeined bishops in euery churche For S. Luke vsing the same wordes to set for the the ministerie off all other churches wherwith he settethe forthe the ministerie off those famous cities vnlesse he will denie there were Bishops there he muste off necessitie graunt that the other churches had their bishops aswell as they Laste off all vnles yt be the institution off God that euery particular congregacion shoulde haue her bishop in that largies and bountifull liberalitie of ecclesiasticall ministers which S. Paule shewethe our Sauiour Christe bestowed vppon his churche after he was ascended nothing falleth to the lot of the partilar churches But yt ys horrible iniurie vnto the liberalitie off Christe so to shutte his hande which he opened so wide therfore it muste needes be that our Sauiour Christe gaue euerie churche her Bishop as for the apostles Euāgelistes and Prophetes beside that their ministerie was not streightned vnto particuler churchs they are as before hathe bene shewed ceassed There remaine therfore of the ministeries there reckened the Pastor and Doctor wherof whether the bishop be the same with the Pastor as some thinck or whether he conteine both Pastor and Doctor as other some esteme it ys manifest that ether euery particular churche must haue a bishop ▪ or els none of those ministeries there recited For if it be saied that taking a bishop for the same vvith a Pastor the particular congregations hauing the Doctor may haue one off them althowgh they haue no bishop it is easy to answere that if the Pastor most necessarie and vvhom the churche can worst spare doo not belong the Doctor can les be thowght to apperteine to a particular church And thus far owt of the scripturs for proofe of a bishop in euery particular church yt followeth to shew the traces of this institution in the primitiue church vvhich succeded next vnto the Apostels The same the D. supposeth the true Ignatius writeth thus Euery church should haue her altar and euery churche her bishop And lest peraduenture the D. should interprete euery church euery dioces or prouince beside that I haue shewed that signification of churche was vnknowen vnto those times the autors meaning is cleare to the contrary when he saithe euery church should haue her communion table which he calleth vnproperly an altar Onles therfore the D. will say that his meaning is there should be but one cōmunion table in a whole dioces or prouince this hole is stopped vp against him And if as he would make vs belieue this was Iohn thapostles scholer then amongest the testimonies of men this may worthely beare the bell Yf not as I for my part thinck yet the later he is the longer is proued this order of hauing a bishop in euery particular congregation seing he sheweth what the face off the church was in those times when he liued Epiphanius prouing a bishop and preaching Elder to differ which cometh after to be examined saith vvhere not as the Pope and the Answ in what great cytie soeuer there vvas found any vvorthy to be bishop there a bishop vvas appointed yea and vvhere there vvas not to fournish both bishop and preaching Elder there thapostles made a bishop and left the Elder So that by his Iudgement bishops were in greater nombre then then preaching Elders That the same was also in Cyprians time shall appeare God willing in the places after to be handled owt off him From his time vnto the Councell off Nice we haue the storie of Eusebius wherin as in a glasse we may see that the churche in this point was litle altered Considering that he assigneth the bishops charge continually for any thing that ether the Ans sheweth or I can gather to one church or to the churches in one citie onely Which maie better appeare in that his bishops are so often times called the bishop off a parishe as hath bene shewed and that he confoundeth a parishe with a churche a pastor with a Bishop as shall appeare so that onles the Answ will saie that there was in those times but one parish church pastor in compas off a prouince or dioces he muste be constreined to confesse that euery particuler churche for the moste parte had a Bishop And althowgh after time of the Nicene Councell there is no dowbt but that as the Bishops had more occasions of enlarging their boundes throwghe the disordered zeale off the godlie Emperours so they let not slip those occasions yet if we consider the estate off the churche what yt was abowte 400. yeares after Chryste we shall finde that bishops were not the tenth parte so thyn sowen as ours be now If a bishop ranne in to any slaunder and the slaunder pressing him he coulde not assemble a greate nomber of bishops to the ende he shoulde not remaine in that slaunder the Councell off Carthage was off aduise that his cause shoulde be hearde off twelue bishops and his owne bishop And an other that if an elder were accused he might call 6. bishops frō
whom there is any light off iudgement would say it is matter off storie vvhether the appointing off one in euery church ouer the rest is remedie againste heresie or no I◠perteineth to the storie that one was placed ouer the rest at such tyme and place as is set downe by Ierome likewise that the cawse that moued them to bring in this coustome was for preseruacion off peace and none off thes is denied but whether this cawse were well assigned and whether this supposed to preserue peace banished godly peace is the question If this be a matter off storie storie hath a larger kingdome then euer I heard off Yet this he doth as absurdly charge me with after in Iustines testimonie where likewise I denie no part off his storie Yf this be to discredite men to say their autoritie ovvght not to vveigh further then yt hath vveight ether off scripture or some reason grovvnded theroff then I haue discredited all writers from the Apostels time For by thes weightes I haue esteemed the best But I leaue to be cōsidered what a popish tyrānie he goeth abowt to bring into the church which lifteth the credit of any be he neuer so godly ād learned aboue that which I haue here alledged Where he saith I confound Monarchie with Tyrannie in that I ask whether the church be not in as great daunger when all is doon at the pleasure off one as when one pulleth one peece and an other an other yt is but a vaine shifting hole For althowgh thes wordes at the Pleasure and lust off one be for the moste part spoken by way off dispraise and I willingly confesse I vsed them becawse this Ecclesiasticall monarchie seldome or neuer deserueth better yet my wordes following declare that my comparison is betwene the Ecclesiasticall gouernement off one and off many not betwene one gouerning tyrannically and many moderatly For supposing that both the Archbishop and those which gouerne in commen be godly and catholike I affirme that he being one is sooner drawen into error then many sooner ouercaried with his affection then a godly companie In answer wherof and reasons wherwith this is confirmed the D. falleth flatly into that wherewith he chargeth me For in steed that he should haue marched many godly and learned ministers with one he matcheth him with the multitude and commē sort and in steed off comparing one ruling by law with many gouerning by the same he compareth him with a lawles companie and in steed off comparing a litle vvater with much of the same kinde he compareth a litle conduite water closed vp in lead with much fennish and muddy Which what leaden answers they be let the reader iudge For in this path of reasoning which he walketh in a man may proue it better to haue but one eye then two becawse some see better with one then other some with both His answer to that off preferring contention before vvicked peace that we haue the true doctrine and right administration of Sacramentes c. and therfore no contention is to be moued is as muche to the question as if he had answered off the wether For the question is not of the estate off our church but off all generally nor whether we haue the truth of doctrine c. but by what way yt ys best kept His answer to the similitude of fire stricken by flintes is more fond For I shewing by yt that contētion is better then wicked peace he answereth the fire stricken may be in suche a time that it may consume the whole countrey and that it is madnes to light a candell at noone daies As if the fire off the truth which I spake off and so called off our Sauiour can consume any thing but straw stuble c. or the Apostle were not glad that the truth came forth allthowgh by contention or it were noone day when the heauens thorowgh ignorāce ād errors are like an haircloth which is the time I spake of And where hauing shewed that tharchbishop is not fittest to kepe the church in possession off the truth I admit by way off disputation that he vvere the fittest adding that forsomuch as he hath as great force to kepe men in error vvhen they are fallen into it this in commoditie ovvght to driue vs to some other gouernement he answereth a monarchie being the worst kind of gouernement when it ruleth by affection ceasseth not to be lawfull when it ruleth by lawes Where first I refer the reader to that before that it is one thing off the forme off church gouernement an other of the commēt wealth which is answer to all thes slanderous speaches here repeted Secondly the church receiueth greater dammage by an Archbishop keping yt in error then the commen wealth by any outrage off tyrannie For there can be no tyrannie in the gouernement off the cōmen wealth so extreme wherin there is not somthing tending to preseruacion off it and consequently off the church But in the gouernement off an Archbishop fallen from the truth and in the swinge off his vncontrolled autoritie keping the truth vnder there is nothing but destruction and ruine withowt step or footing off the fauour off God towardes the vpholding off the church Seing therfore tyrannie in the commen wealth is not so great an ennemy vnto the commen wealth as a church tyrant vnto the truth there is better cawse to haue a Monarchie in the commen wealth then in the church as that which can not stray so far as the other from the end wherunto it was ordeined Moreouer the cawse why the Monarchie in commen wealth can not be condemned is for that it is one off those gouernementes which God hath established and allowed by his word But the Archbishoprick to let pas that yt is contrarie to the word off God yt is sufficient in this consideration that yt hath no allowance off the same For therupon foloweth that althowgh the abuse off those thinges which God hath approued can not destroie the lawfull vse off them yet this which hath no further alowance then of the mouth off mē may vpon experience off euill husbandrie in the church matters be worthely reiected So yt may be seen that althowghe the Ans would make one case off a Magistrate and archbishop yet there is as far distance betwene them as betwene heauen and earth Yt resteth to shewe that the archbishopricke hath bene so farre from nourishing the church peace that yt hath bene the knife wherwith all the stringes and knottes theroff haue bene cutte in peaces Againste vvhich the Ans alledgeth firste the testymonies off Cyprian and Ierome Wherin besyde that I haue shewed that they helpe him not yt is before declared that nether Cyprians bishop did any thing at all nor Ieromes the ordination excepted but by common consent off all the elders Not onely because they were at making off the church lawes vnder which wrinckel the D. woulde hide the excesse off the archbishops
autoritie but also for that they had felowlike autoritie in the deciding off controuersies which rose in their seuerall churches accordinge vnto the lawes After where I quoted certeine places oute off the decrees and other Canons to proue the contention for thes offices the Ans acknowledgeth nothing there that carieth any sounde that waies Albeit the sound was cleare enowghe if he had not bene deafe of that eare For to what ende both in the Nycene Councell where the Metropolitanes are first hard of and when they were yet in the cradell and in many other holden more then 200. yeares after are there founde so many canons for the acknowledging off the autoritie off one Metropolitane in euery Prouince For the honor vvhich he shoulde haue the name he should be called by for the place where they should sytte at their meatinges for the boundes of their circuite doo not all thes declare that there were which were ennemies to that autoritie and that those which were lyfted vp into yt had continuall warre one with an other who should be the first who the greatest who of largeste spreade What meaneth yt also that they changed the seates so often so that the second or third at one Councel was fourth at an other and none at the third and contrariwise he that was none before was cheif afterward What also that the teritoiries appointed by one Councell were abbridged by an other enlarged againe by a third Ys there any man of so smale conceite which doth not hereby vnderstande that this lifting vp of one aboue the reste was a bone caste of the deuill to cause the ministers fall owt one with an other wherby place was made to heresies of all sortes to the vtter vndoing of the church aÌ„d quenching off the gospell And if the D. had bene off so narrowe vnderstanding that vppon so often and so diuers decrees in this behalfe he could not conceiue the contentions which this did breed yet expresse wordes off histories which testifie generally of the coÌ„tentions for those preeminences of Councells as it may appeare by the canons off the Aphrican councel which I haue alledged of the Tauritan which sheweth that the FreÌ„she bishops stroue which church should haue the MetropolitaÌ„ship and how the bishop of Arles and VienÌ„a fell owt for the same were redy to haue informed hiÌ„ of the trwth in this behalfe Yea in the discourse of the Councell of Nice wheron the cheife credit off the Metrapolitane dependeth he might haue redd how almost all the Bishops assembled there had quarels one with an other Which when they were not as doth appeare for diuersitie off iudgement in religion yt is easie to vnderstand that they were for the causes aboue rehersed And if he could be ignorante of all thes yet our stories at home which specifie the combates and going together by the â—ares for thes causes offred vnto him a plentifull proofe off all thes thinges Whherby yt appeareth that this Metropolitaneship was the very apple off contentioÌ„ in schambling for which the church was miserably haled in peaces Therfore forasmuche as the Apostle sheweth that the trwth is kepte by the bonde of vnitie and yt being moste manifeste that thes smokie titles off honor were cawse off contention yt followeth that so farr they are from that pretended off being bulwerckes againste heresies and schismes that they were the principall hookes that pulled them in The Papistes saie that there maie be a bishop of all the whole church because there may be of a prouince I that there can be nether off one nor other They would establishe the Pope by the Archbishop and I ouerthrowe the Archbishop by the Pope This is great ioining with the Papistes If I woulde take the aduantage off your owne wordes firste that there is the same reason of one ouer a diocese and ouer a Prouince and a gaine that forsomuch as one was ouer 12. therfore one maye be ouer a whole prouince I need not seeke for further defense as I haue there declared But againste this M. Caluin and M. Nowell be browght which saie there is not the same reason off one ouer the whole churche and ouer a prouince let yt be so For the one is a more prowder title then the other breaketh in further into the the prerogatiue of Christe then the other And if the church muste needes be accombred ether with Pope or Archbishop let vs graunte so muche to the archbishop that to avoide the Popes iron furnaies wee would be content to grinde in his myll and to a voide the scourge off the one passe by the whip off the other yet heroff foloweth not but that yt ys true I haue set downe For althowghe they are not in all pointes a like nor euery reason which concludeth the one concludeth the other yt hindreth not but ther are certeine reasons which conclude bothe a like That this pointe off keping peace in the church is one off those which requireth as well a Pope ouer all the Archbishops as an archbishop ouer all the bishops in a realme I will goe no further then to the causes your selfe haue assigned For where I shewe that vnitie maie be kepte vvithoute an Archbishop yow assigne two causes for which in keping vnitie yt is meete to haue an Archbishop the one to call the bishops together when there is variance the other to put them in minde of their dewties And if an Archbishop be necessarie for calling of a prouinciall councell when ther is cause off assemblie and when the bishops are deuided yt is necessarie there be also a Pope which maie call the generall Councell when ther is diuision betwene the Archbishops an other cause of generall Councell For wheÌ„ the churches of one Prouince be deuided from other and the archbishops are at variance as yow aske me so I aske yow who shall assemble them together who shall admonishe them off their dewties when they are assembled If you can finde a waie how this maie be doone withowt a Pope the waie is also founde wherby the church is disbourdened off the Archbishop Of the autorities yow alledge nether affirme that the gouernement of an Arbishop ouer a Prouince is conuenient onely they affirme that there is more likelihoode in the one then in the other and that there were archbishops in the churche when ther were no Popes yf one should conclude that becawse a man maie touche the moone with his haÌ„d therfore he maie touche the sonÌ„e and yt be said for answer that althowghe yt be possible to touche the moone yet it foloweth not so of the sonÌ„e who is there of so litle iudgemeÌ„t vvhich vvould gather of this answer that one maye touche the moone vvith his hand And as this proueth that one may ouerthrowe one impossible thing by an other withowt teaching ether off them possible so that I haue alledged 467. pag. perteining to this matter off one vvhich against him that vvould
consulship not in all pointes but onely in this that he should propound the matters c. as before Which appeareth in an other place and euen in this verie place when he saith yt is meete that althovvghe they be all off equall povver yet there should be one as yt vvere moderator And therfore if yow woulde haue made yowr archbishops according to Caluins measure he owght to haue no more preheminence before the simplest pastor then the Consull which spake had before his fellow Consull which helde his peace Wher he saith the prolocutor chosen for the inferior sort of clergie yet the Archbishop reteineth still his office yt shewethe that he is now but an idoll hauing put ouer the duty to other for which he is supposed to haue bene so necessarie But yt is manifest that the Prolocutor in the synode hathe all that preheminence which Peter had aboue the other Apostels and therfore which one pastor owght to haue aboue an other which is that I browght yt for The next I answere not Where I shew his vaine argument that one bishop shoulde be aboue an other because Paule an APostle was aboue Timothe an Euangelist he saith that yt houldethe because they differ not in the administring off the the worde and sacramentes but in gouernement Which is vntrew for they differed in both alike For as they differed from the Apostles in that they gouerned those onely churches ouer which they were set where the Apostles gouernement stretched vnto all churches so they could not administer the worde and sacramentes but where they were appointed where the Apostles might do yt in all places But for further confutation off this distinction I referre me to that before Where I shew his argument all one with this my Lord maior is aboue the Sherifes therfore one sherife is aboue an other he saith I should haue concluded that because my Lord Maior hath rule ouer the cytisens therfore the Apostels superioritie ouer an inferior degree off ministerie proueth that one in the same degre of ministerie may rule ouer an other Which is to ridiculous For if it were as it is not a good argument from ciuill gouernement vnto ecclesiasticall yet to saie that therfore one ecclesiasticall officer may beare rule ouer an other yea that one may beare rule ouer his fellowes off the same order becawse the magistrate beareth rule ouer priuate men cleaneth togither as goates dounge So that if there were any argument here yt ys that as my Lord maior ruleth ouer the cytisens so yt behouethe the pastor to rule ouer his flocke The next diuisiō is answered Wher he calledged Calu. that vppon that Paul willed Titus to appoint Elders saithe Titus was in autoritie and counsell aboue other Pastors and I opposed Calu. which sheweth that he did nothing in that behalfe vvithovvt the aduise off other pastors and consent off the churches he askethe whotly still for answere As if it were not answered especially when I shewed before that the superioritie that ministers can haue in suche meetinges is onely to propounde c. as is before declared Which Calu. do the expresly set forthe in the same place when he saith S. Paule commaunded him onely to be president or moderator in the election The two first sections how shamefullie they be said I leaue to the readers iudgement in the last against that I alledged owt off the Scoliaste that Paule would not haue one rule the whole I le and therfore not Titus is browght first an exposition gone abowte to be confirmed off him and Chrysostome which say that Paule committed vnto Titus Crete and to Timothie almoste all Asia As yf that might not well stand with that that Titus gouerned one citie alone for in that they had autoritie giuen them to appoint ministers in forme aforesaid in all that circuite vntill the churche there were fully established and a lawfull ministerie throwghly planted ▪ there charge in that respecte extended yt selfe to that whole circuite But when the countrey was deuided into seuerall churches and euery churche had a lawfull and complete ministery he charge before generall is now restrained vnto that one churche where Titus made his abode Euen as euerie off the 12. Princes and Aaron which deuided the land off Canaan had before partition a certein power off all which after lottes cast had onely to do with that which apperteined to them in seuerall A thowgh yf yt be graunted that Titus and Timothe continued that large gouernement during their abode there wherin I will not striue yet considering as hathe bene shewed they were Euangelistes and no Bishops nor Archbishops there can nothing grow to them hereby For as no man can haue gouernement ouer all the churches which the Apostels had but they that haue that speciall office so none can succede into the iurisdiction off Euangelistes but they onely which haue that extraordinarie ministerie And therfore Caluin in the place before cited off the D. saith there vvas not then suche equalitie c. but that one did rule ouer an other noting by the word then which the D. hathe vnfaithfully left owt that the gouernemēt which Titus had in Creta was for those times when ther were suche extraordinarie callinges Wher he saith in streightening Titus to one church I make him pastor which I donie let him learne that to haue charge in one church alone not a pastor vnles he be so tied that he can not departe withowt the churche lose his bonde Which neither Titus was nor is by any word affirmed off me Whether the rest be shamels accusations let the reader iudge The next althowghe vnworthy of answer being but bare affirmacions against my reasons is answered before As for that those wordes receiue no accusations c. must needes be vnderstanded of one which hathe other elders vnderneathe him and therfore not off euerie pastor yt argueth that the D. is spent For he knowethe that we hould that euery pastor had his elders assistan which hath and shall God willing appeare Besides that it argueth his ignorance off the state of the elder churches wher as hathe bene shewed bishops sat in iudgement off other bishops ād elders not vnderneath them That ther be not a hundreth seuerall preceptes in the three epistles to Timothe and Titus wheras in diuers verses there be sixe or seuen doth well become his bouldnes Against reason alledged owt off Augustine that the place owt off Epiphanius was of some false Epiphanius here is nothing but autoritie Howbeit not to striue for this before I come to answere yt is to be noted that this is Pigghius reason against the churche off God euen in the verie selfe same cause which we haue now in hād towching this sort of bishops For against the Waldenses firste and after against Wickleue which put no difference betwene a bishop and a priest Pigghius hath a treatise in his Hierarche wherin he pressethe them with
vse is shewed to haue continued in the Deacons diij We are also confirmed in this refusal by autoritie off a nombre off the reformed churches dcxviij off the Godly writers which haue particulerly spokeÌ„ against ether all or some of these offices As Ierome 598. M. Wicleue 616. Luther 617. Barnes and Hooper 526. Bucer 556. 567. 662. Musculus 549. 598. Caluin 566. 613. c. 629. The bishop off Salisbury 568. Beza 505. Bullinger 426. 567. Hetherto belonge â—â— that the answerers reasons in this cause are drawen almost 〈◊〉 from the Papistes Namely from Pighius Harding and other â—â—pistes against the Catholikes 414. 426. 446 573. 616. 622. And from Harding against the bishop of Salisbury 425. 430. 453. 472. 497. 500 599 601. 611. 612. Ecclesiasticall election IT owght to be with consent of the church first for that yt ys the institution off god This is shewed owt off the 14. Actes 194. Here is disputed off the signification of lifting vp of handes 199 Also out of the 8. 1. Corinthes 209. and Actes 6 134. for that the lightest charges off the church were not doen but by consent off yt where the exception taken from Pigghius is answered Likewise owt of j. Actes 12â— Considering that in that Election which was made immediatly by the lord the churches iudgement was not passed by This ys strenghtned by Nomb. 8. 220. Leuiticus â— Nombers 20. 222. Hetherto perteineth that which the D. alledgeth to the contrary owt off Titus 1. and Timoth. 1. 5 â–ª cclxv drawen from Pighius cclxx Whereto belongeth that the scripture sometime attributeth to the chief in an action that is coÌ„mon to moe then to them confirmed by the manner off speaking both in scripture and otherwise also by the iudgemeÌ„t of Caluin Musculus 196. Beza 135. Bullinger 197. Further that which the D bringeth owt off 13 Act. taken from Hosius cclxxxiij Likewise that the form off the Election should be other now then in time off the Apostels ccxxxv Where the number off Christians and throwgh the nomber tumult in elections is confuted Also that of the difference of religion and maners betwene Christians then and now taken from Hosius ccxlj â–ª Where is handled the shutting forth of papistes Dronkards and Whoremongers Further that the estate off the church was not then popular ccxlix That the confirmation off the election by the magistrat altereth not the forme cclxij Hether also refer the counterfait Ambrose drawen from Pighius off the diuersyty off gouernement off the church then and now cclix This is confirmed of the effectes off the church Election because yt breedeth assurance off the minister in his calling maketh the people more obedient to him as Musculus confesseth cclx Causeth the Godly to loue him 〈◊〉 and bridleth the Hypocrites from outrage against him … xix Hetherto refer that the D bringeth off the supposed contention that this will breed cxxxiiij cxlvij cclxxxviij Likewise of the comparison betwene the effectes off our bishops elections with those off the churches cxlvij. ccxxvij Likewise that the errors off the churches election may be commodiously remedied by the churches hard by by the Synodes and if they faile by the magistrat 23â— That it is the churches liberty as Musculus saith cclx Also that the consent off the parliament touching the bishops election ys not the churches ecclesiastical election Where the D doth but mocke the church ccxxv That certein thinges ar variable in this election hindereth not the perpetuitie off the churches coÌ„sent cxxxvij That the ignorance off the church is not such as both hinder the churches election cxi cxlvj. ccxxix Nether corruption of religion such cxivij Nor of affections ccxxix This is also shewed by comparison off the churches election with that which is coÌ„monly doen in ciuil affaires ccxxiiij confirmed by Peter Martyr ccxxviij Last off all this is confirmed by ould custome ccxx by Councels Nycene cclvij cclxxxiiij CoÌ„stantinople Carthage Toledo alledged page xxxvij off my first book off Paris Orleans with diuers other ccxx Emperours decrees cciij Ignatius cciij Cyprian cxxv ccxâ—ij Where is the D. exception taken owt off Pigghius Gregorie Nazianzene Ambrose ccixxx Chrysostome cxciij Ierome cclxxvj Augustin cclxxviij The exception against which testimony is takeÌ„ from Pigghius Oecumenius ccij Luther ccxiiij Archbishop off Reines â—usanus Celestinus Leo ccliij Off the autorities which he vseth that off Chrysostome vppon the 6 off the Actes is answered cxciij That owt of his book de sacerdorio and S. Iohn drawen both from Hosius cclxxxviij ccxcj The rest ether are nothing to purpose or are shewed flat against him for vs as the Canon attributed to the Apostles off the Ancyran and Antioch can Councel ccxvâ—ij Caluin cxxvj. ccxvj ccxxij Zuingâ—â—us and Bulllinger cxcvj Beza cxciâ—ij Musculus ccixiij and toe example off the Tigurine election ccixv Differing in some point fâ—â—m vs are shewed greatly against him Examinâ—â—â—on an other part off election That the ecclestasticall ministers examinatioÌ„ is instituted in the word ys shewed owt off Acres j. cxxj 6. Act cxxvij. 1. Timothy iij. cxliiij Whether perteineth the example off Ieroboam clxi Althowgh they be knowen yet meet they should be offered vnto yt cxxij yea and examined althowgh some good knowledg be before exxviij That it owght not to be made by one onely as appeareth by the former testimonies Hether belong the reasons of ignorance corruption in religion and affection noted in the former title as those which are common to this aswel as to the churches consent in election This is explaned by comparison off Ciuill affaires res cxxâ—x c. clix Confirmed by example off S. Paul xvj Act. cliiij Whether perteineth that alledged of the D. that S. Paul was receiued at the testimony of Barnabas 160. Especially this examination owght not to be made by the Archdeacon in the election off a bishop cliiij And that the receiuing of a bishop at his testimonie came from Rome cxliij That in the examination with vs the church ys vtterly shut owt howsoeuer the D pretend otherwise cliiij Knowen adulterers owght not to be receiued into the mynistery clxxvj Nor ministers fallen into Idolatry cxlv The law of Moses in that behalf owght rather to be obserued vnder the gospel then vnder the law cixxvj The endes hereof clxxiiij Here is handled the example of Iudas clxviij clxxiiij The Pharisies clxviij Off S. Paul and Peter clxxiiij Likewise are handled S. Peters denial clxxvij and the gentiles Idolatry clxxxiiij Increased by the D. to the end that the Popish Idolatry should semeles Likewise that the decree off restoring ministers fallen into Idolatry was not of the Councel of rebaptization clxxxij That they which are nue come to religion owght not to be receiued to the ministery off the word clxxx That a prouf may be taken off the bishops habilitie in teaching before he be ordeined cl That if they be not able to teach they owght not by the word to be ordeined ccclxvij Hether perceineth that