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A69024 A replie to a relation, of the conference between William Laude and Mr. Fisher the Jesuite. By a witnesse of Jesus Christ Burton, Henry, 1578-1648. 1640 (1640) STC 4154; ESTC S104828 423,261 458

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before him in the view of all the Councel And the maine point of their Contentions was about Precedency which Bishoprick should be before another Oh devout and humble Prelates O holy successors of the Apostles Are these men like to remedy Schisme in the Church that are the Authors of them themselvs How came the great Schisme of Arius but by the Prelates when but one chiefly stood up against him How got Antichrist to be Caput Vniversale Universall Head or Bishop but by the dessent of the Bishops which causing their Appeales to Rome brought the Roman Bishop to that height so as the Prelates being worse divided among themselves then the Presbyters had been before them for remedy of whose Schisme they were by mans prescription erected gave occasion to the two Bishops of the two Imperiall Cities Rome and Constantinople to stickle for one Headship over all to reconcile all And so the Popedome it selfe the Throne of the Beast was erected in Schismatis remedium for the onely Remedy of all Schisme And it is to be noted how these two Prelates strove for this supremacy and both under the veile of humility Iohn of Constantinople becomes a great Faster whereupon he was styled Iohannes Iejunator Iohn the Faster Gregory then of Rome though he thundred against Iohns Ambition calling him that had or affected that Title the forerunner of Antichrist yet seeing Iohn like to prevaile with pretence of holinesse and humility Gregory stiles himselfe servus servorum Dei He thought he would not come behind for humility but indeed therein bewraying his pride when his humility was but in emulation And we see in Gregories Registrum in sundry of his Epistles how low he descends in most base flattery to that Parricide Phocas and his Empres to visit the thresholds of Peter and Paul c. But what will not Episcopall zeale doe for the Hierarchy But thus he kept Iohn off and so made way for his own Prophecy which was Filius superbiae prope est The son of pride that is Antichrist is neere at hand And neerer surely then he was aware For Gregory deceasing and Sabianus succeeding and siting but one yeare Boniface 3. the next successor obtaind this Title of Phocas and so each confirmed other the Emperour the Pope in the Throne of Antichrist which is a Tyranny over mens Soules and the Pope the Emperours Cruelty in a Tyranny over mens Bodyes And thus came that Prophecy of the Angel Revel 17.18 to be fulfilled The Woman which thou sawest is that great City which reigned over the Kings of the Earth As Rome then did in S. Iohns time So as according to Gods word not Constantinople which was not the Imperiall C●ty till Constantine so made it but Rome must be the feat of the Beast and of the Whore thus described Thus from Bishops emulation ambition contention one against another for honour precedency and greatnesse in the world came Antichrist to mount upon that Beast which had 7 heads and ten hornes And your selfe confesseth The difficulty was to accommodate the Places and Precedencies of Bishops among themselves And for this you say The most equall and impartiall way was that the Honours of the Church should follow the Honours of the State So that the greater City the greater Bishop And thus Romes Primacy in Order brought him to his supremacy in Authority Againe you say The Calling of Bishops Whence this Calling Not from God And of Aarons Priesthood it was said No man takes this honour upon him but he that is called of God as was Aaron Heb. 5.4 So all the Apostles had a speciall Calling and Commission from Christ to preach c. Paul Called to be an Apos●le of Iesus Christ. He stood upon his Calling he had a lawfull Calling wheron his Apostolicke Authority was founded Now you would be accounted Apostolick and the Apostles successors but where 's your Calling We find no such Calling as of lord-Lord-bishops in the Scripture Therfore you have no Authority over the inferiour Clergy not over Gods Ministers I meane Either therfore prove your Calling from God or give us leave to deny your Authority as being an usurped Tyranny If you aledge those Bishops so called Act. 20.28 Phil. 1.1 1 Tim. 3.1 Tit. 1.7 c. Prove they were Diocesan Bishops We prove them by the plain Text to be but Presbyters over the severall Congregations over which the Holy Ghost made them Episkópous Bishops or Overseers as more fully at after If you aledge Timothy and Titus for Bishops that 's soon answered they were onely Euangelists no Bishops Those Epigraphees in the end of that to 2 Tim. and Tit. they are no part of the Text but were added long after at the leas● 400. years It behoves you therfore to prove your Calling better before you so presse and oppresse us with your Authority But you adde L. p. 177. Among these to wit Patriarchs Metropolitans Bishops there was effectuall subjection respectively grounded upon Canon and positive Law in their severall quarters P. Here you confesse that all subjection of Metropolitans to the Patriarchs and of Bishops to the Metropolitans was but grounded upon Canon and Positive Law Ergo not upon the Canon of Scripture nor the Law of God As you confessed openly in High Commission that no one Apostle had Authority or Iurisdiction over the Rest or any of their fellows so as though you call your calling Apostolicke yet your Arch-Bishoprick is not Apostolicke in exercising Authority and Iurisdiction over all the Bishops in your Province This you have not from the Scripture I know not from what Papall Canon For as for Positive if you meane the Politick Laws of Princes you will not take your Authority from them And the Judges have declared their judgement in the Kings Edict that your exercising your Authority and keeping Courts in your own Names is now no more a trenching upon the Kings Prerogative then formerly it hath been Where the Judges are to be commended for their Discretion But it is very well Thus you are loose off from the Positive Law of the Prince and we deny you any title either of Authority or Calling over the Ministry and so you may prove to sit between two stooles or as he that hath not one string to his bow But whereas you confesse before that Bishops have no Jurisdiction one over another because the Apostles had not hence it is evident that those who are true Bishops to wit Presbyters have no jurisdiction over one another and so there is no such Order or Calling of Lord Bishops whereby they have Authority over the true Bishops and Pastors of the flocks of Christ. These things are noted sufficiently before but as Augustine writing against the Pelagians saith By these things so often repeated though the importunity of the Adversary will not be repressed yet the Truth shal be the more confirmed and the Faith of Beleevers the more firmly established L. p. 183. The
●enders helps in Governments And all this according to the expresse Law of Christ our King recorded in the Scripture as being the most perfect pattern of the Government of his Church for every particular Congregation to be regulated and ordered by So as in truth those Congregations that are thus governed are the onely true Churches of Christ as wherein himselfe his spirit his word doe govern both Minister and people whereas on the other side all Prelaticall Churches are false and Antichristian as wherein not Christ and his spirit and his word do beare rule but Antichristian men by the pride of their spirit and by their Canons doe altogether beare sway thrusting Christ out of his Throne despising his word and puting a yoake of bondage over the necks both of Ministers and people To conclude this point because you are of such a beliefe and so confidently tell us and peremptorily avouch that Christ thought it fitter to govern his Church by Diverse then by One Vice-Roy besides what is already sayd I will a little more presse and present before you Christs own words at full which I doe to put you out of all such beliefe or so much as any such conceit that Christ had ever any such thought Math. 20. upon occasion of those two at that time ambitious bretheren sent to Christ by their Mother to be chiefe about him in his Kingdome Christ first tells them Ye know not what ye aske Then calling his Disciples to him he saith thus unto them Ye know that the Princes of the Gentiles exercise Dominion over them and they that are great exercise authority upon them But it shall not be so among you but wh●so ever wil be great among you let him be your Minister c. Which the Euangelist Luke expresseth thus The Kings of the Gentiles exercise Lordship over them and they that exercise Authority upon them are called Euergétai Benefactors But ye shall not be so Ye Who Not the Apostles of Christ not the Ministers of Christ in succeding ages Not so How Ye shall not exercise Dominion Lordship Authority one over another you shall not be called Benefactors Patrons Lords Gratious Lords Honourable your Grace your Honour c. Why so For such are the Kings of the Gentiles who exercise Dominion over them and are called Benefactors You shall not be as they in exercising any Authority or Jurisdiction one over another Nor shall ye be called Euerg●t●i My Good lord My Benefactor My Patron My lords Grace or My Gratious lord and the like Thus under those words Christ cha●geth his Apostles not to affect not to be ambitious of not to exercise Superiority or Prelacy Iurisdiction and Authority one over another or over Christs Kingdome his Church and 〈◊〉 as Peter saith Not as Lords over Gods heritage where the Apostle useth the same word that Christ his Master used M● 〈◊〉 katakuriéuontes ton k●úron not exercising Dominion or 〈…〉 God 's Inheritance or if you will over his Clergy though they be not his onely Inheritance but his people are no 〈…〉 unto him and are kleros Gods lot But now for Christs 〈◊〉 do you not think that Christ spake as he thought and 〈◊〉 as he spake Or can you beleeve any other And do not his 〈◊〉 to his Apostles in them reach to all his Ministers 〈…〉 succeed them in future ages If you say you are the 〈◊〉 onely successors why are you then l●rds ov●r Go●s 〈…〉 why do you exercise ●u●hority and Dominion over his 〈◊〉 and peop●e as Heathen Kings doe over then people 〈…〉 expresly forbid to his Apostles and to all their Successors But you shew your selves to be none of Christs Disciples and so none of his Apostles successors for you obey not Christs word as the Apostles did What do you answere then to Christs words Or what interpretation can you devise to avoyd them You will answere perhaps with Bellarmine that Christ forbad his Apostles to be like the Heathen Princes in exercising a temporall Government or Authority one over another This is indeed all the evasion Bellarmine hath But how vain Let 's bring it to the Touch. How shall it be tryed What saith Christ Humeis dè ouk outos you shall not be so Now if you be not so all is well you may prove Apostolicall men But if you prove to be like the Heathen Princes in exercising Lordship over the people under your Government and in exercising Authority over them what can you say for your selves why you should not be proclaimed for proud Contemners of Christs word and for usurping Tyrants over his peopl and so for a rebellious Faction and Confederacy against Christs Kingdome Let 's therfore draw our Parallell Those Heathen Powers were called Princes so you call your selves they were Kings and so were Gods Vice-gerents you call your selves Vice-Roys of Christ they were called Benefactors though they never did good so you are styled My lords Grace and when in your Court you condemn poore innocents yet they must confesse the justice and favour of your Court They were called Fathers of their Countrey so you Right Reverend Fatheres Most Reverend Father your Grace c. They were lords so you yea you are temporall lords and so sit in Parliament though styled spirituall they exercised lordship dominion Authority over the people and that with tyranny and without Law so do you And in a word Is not your Pompe and state your Power and Greatnesse your Palaces and Courts your Traine and Attendants your Fasces and Lictors to wit your Pursuivants and Apparitors your Kinglike Attire in Purple and Scarlet and fine lynen soft rayment of silkes and sattens your Tables overflowing with delicacies of viands and wines in all abundance and variety and what not like that of Kings Thus doe you not beare the Image of the Beast the Dragon the Heathen Emperour who gave power to that other Beast the Pope who in himselfe erected the Image of the first Beast from top to toe namely the Imperiall state and magnificence being fully expressed and limmed out in the Papall though but in somwhat a lower degree in your Episcopall Pontificiall state As Pope Boniface 8. in the first day of his Jubilee came forth pompously arayed in all his Pontificalibus and the next day in the Imperiall Ropes with two Swords caried before him And a lively Image of this is my Lord Bishop a mixt Creature partly temporall and partly spirituall spirituall in name onely and temporall in his whole outward state as the Kings and Princes of the Gentiles were as the Crea●ure called Amphibius that lives now in the water and now on the Land and yet is neither good Fish nor Flesh. Now tell us my Lord whose Image you beare Christs or Caesars yea in all things you resemble Caesar but not many one thing the Lord Iesus Christ. I say not in one thing Shew any one thing wherein you instate either Christ o● his Apostles after his
your own Name This in our poore opinions will mightily take with the vulgar and easily vindicate and set upright your Graces Reputation And because we are not ignorant of your multiplicious and waighty affaires in Court not permitting your thoughts that vacancie which such a worke would require let not that trouble your Lordship our Service shall not be wanting Thus or so your Divines Well now that you heare your friends Counsell what 's your Resolution L· ibid. I confesse I looked round about these men and their motion and at last my thoughts working much upon themselves I began to perswade my selfe that I had been too long diverted from this necessary worke And that perhaps these might be in voce hominum tuba Dei in the still voyce of men the loud Trumpet of God P. And perhaps my Lord and that whereof it may be ye wil be the rather perswaded the unanimous cons●nt of these Divines might be by the instigation of that same Spirit in which those 400. Prophets by their unanimous vote prevailed to perswade King Ahab to goe up to Ramoth Gilead that so according to Gods own purpose he might there perish But it might be you say Gods loud Trumpet What to hasten you to Judgement Certainly that lying Spirit in those Prophets was sent from GOD to prepare the way of executing vengeance on that Ahab the more speedily as who had sold himselfe to worke wickednesse in sheding Nabaths blood And surely when I look'd into the intrals of this your Booke as the Roman Southsayers of old did into the bowels and entralls of their Sacrifices and found them so exceedingly vicious and corrupt and withall like to Caesars Sacrifice wherein was found no heart which the Astrologers took for a bad signe no heart at all to the true Religion indeed it suggested these conceits into my mind about this very passage of yours But time will try all things And if you will have my poore opinion I am perswaded if you had never put pen to paper it having been super-sufficient to have expressed your mind in your other handy-works or Practises and so had reserved your Apology when requisite to your perswasive Language and powerfull Rhetorick men might have had lesse hold to take off you when you might have put all your other Actions upon a higher moving Cause as usually ye doe But for writing you know Litera Scripta manet Or else it had been better to have reprinted your First Coppy as it was at first without Alteration and in your Chaplains name still for so you should both have vindicated it from obscurity lying hid and lurking in the belly of Dr. Whites Works and also at pleasure have either owned or disclaimed it as you found occasion Or might have excused any thing that might be taken in it as offensive either imputing it to your Chapleins mistake or to want of leasure to revise it or which is the surest and most beaten way to the Printer as was lately done about that notorious Popish Book of Salis his Devotions And hereof if your Lordship knows it not I will tell you a pretty Tale. This Book of Devotion of Salis bearing the Title of Bishop of Geneva although the Church of Geneva have no such Bishops had been so long ago translated into English and being purged from those grosse points of Popery which were in the Originall Coppy was by Authority published in Print and sold well But of late dayes since you came to sit in that Chaire one undertook to translate the Originall anew and intire as it was at first set forth by the Author without altering any thing as the Translator professed in his Epistle Dedicatory to Mris Anne Roper a notorious Recusant This Translation being brought to your Chaplein to license it past for currant as containing nothing in it against Faith and Manners and so was licensed without the least correction of the grossest things in it It came to the Printer who falling aworke upon it began to stumble at some no small Popish blocks that lay in his way insomuch as he was afraid to goe on but went and shewed them to your Chaplein who making a tush at it bad him goe on and he would beare him out in it So Printed it was And coming abroad some began to find fault with it and the stinke of the Booke more and more increasing with stirring it came at length to be smelled by your Lordship Hereupon what serious examination you used about it I know not but there being some Jealousie that some one of those THREE forementioned troublesome bitter men whose Cause was then shortly to be heard might haply among other things might they have been permitted to speake freely cast that Booke in your Lordships dish the next newes we heard of it was that a Proclamation is published for the burning of the Book in Smith-field wherein also all the blame was layd upon the poore Printer for which he must to prison and you and your Chaplein were acquitted and cleared as no way faulty So easie is it with the least breath to blow away the blackest clowds when they threaten a storme either against you or your Chaplein in such cases But now in this your Booke so exactly Reprinted and revised and republished wherein also you have ratified and avowed all in your former Booke for yours you have for ever fast bound your hands that you cannot helpe your selfe at a dead lift Well 't is too late now either to prevent or remedy what is past Yet one thing there is which you may perhaps deem to be operae pretium worth your paines as wherein lyes your maine Confidence of vindicating your Reputation with good men and that is some Large Discourses in your Booke wherein you seeme to be point blanke against the Papists as about the Scripture Transubstantiation c. This indeed might say well to it and passe for currant were there not in some of them so much grosse allay as makes the whole to be reprobate Silver as the Prophet saith and also did you not commit a grosse Solecisme in writing a seeming Truth and practising apparently contrary and did you not overballance seeming Truths with too much Popish Truth throughout your Booke as will all along appeare And you know that if one dead Fly will corrupt a whole box of oyntment how much more a Swarme And a little poyson corrected and infused in a Potion proves medicinall but if uncorrected and of two great a quantity it becomes mortall and so instead of bealing kills the Patient But to proceed L. p. 9. I have thus acquainted your Majestie with all occasions which both formerly and now againe have led this Tract into the Light P. And not without cause needs your Tract to be led into the light I will not here apply that speech of Christ If the blind lead the blind but leave it to the event L. p. 11. GOD forbid I should
Antichrist both as he pretends to be Christs Vicar for Christ or Vice Christ as he practiseth against Christ. And for this reason he is noted to be ho Antikristos That Antichrist by a note of singularity as 1 Iohn 2.22 to distinguish him from other Antichrists of whom there are many as 1 Iohn 2.18 Of which many your Lordship and all Prelates are and especially Arch-Prelates or Patriarchs as the Pope call'd you For you tell us at after that you Prelates are Vice-roys whereby Christ governes his Church So as you being Christs vice-roy over the Church of England you are as vice Christus vice-Christ or in the Greek Antikristos as Anthúpatos Vice-roy under the King Christ. This you confesse and professe And under this Title you practise Antichrist you are an Antikeimenos an Adversary as all your practises proclame you and as we have in part noted and shall yet more set you forth And this is that Mystery of Iniquity For it were not els a Mistery if it were not veiled with a pretence and profession to be for Christ and under that to be against Christ. So as the difinition of Antichrist pertaineth no lesse properly to you then it doth to the Pope onely he is Antichrist with an Ho That Antichrist And you are An Antichrist and no little one neither as being Papa alterius Orbis The Pope or Patriarch of the other world to wit of England as the Pope said of you Now this being so cleare as is without all contradiction and you being Metropolitan of all England and the Church of England under you and the Government thereof being Prelaticall or Hierarchicall and this Hierarchy being that Mystery of Iniquity of such Antiquity for it pretends and professes to be for Christ as the Government of a vice-roy but in practise is against Christ and so is altogether Antichristian can you blame your Seperatist for condemning your Church of England of Antichristianisme and that for that very Church-Governments sake which you Say hath been used both in and ever since the Apostles in all Ages and Places where the Church hath taken any rooting But you will with the Jesuite alledge that place of Iohn to defend you from being an Antichrist as they doe to defend the Pope from being that Antichrist Iohn saith Who is a lyer but he that denyeth that Iesus is the Christ He is Antichrist But you Say you doe not deny Iesus to be Christ therefore you are neither a lyer nor Antichrist 'T is true indeed none is a more devout adorer of the Name JESUS then your selfe but yet I must tell you that for all this you deny the Person Iesus to be the Christ. But you confesse him to be the Christ. In words you doe But what saith the Apostle They professe that they know God but in works they deny him being abominable and disobedient and to every good worke Reprobate So that in words a man may confesse and professe Christ and yet in works deny him And so doe you for all your faire pretences and professed love to Iesus And who was fitter to betray Christ then he that with a Hale Master Saluted him with a Kisse But let us now see what it is to deny Iesus to be the Christ. Iesus in that place is spoken of his Person and Christ is spoken of his Offices So as there is meant not a denyall of Iesus to be the Sonne of God or God-man not a denyall of his Person and two Natures these you doe not deny but a denyall of Iesu● to be the Christ the Anointed of the Father And this you deny How For Christ is that Anointed King Priest and Prophet which three Offices of his are comprehended and signified in the Title ho Kristòs The Christ as Iohn there sets it down and our English doth well expresse it The Christ That Anointed Anointed above his fellowes namely King Priest and Prophet so as none of his fellowes those foregoing Types or Figures of him were anointed Melchisedech was King and Priest Samuel was Priest and Prophet David was King and Prophet but never any was this ho Kristòs The Christ The Anointed King Priest and Prophet And Christ was anointed solemnly and in a conspicuous and visible manner King Priest and Prophet by the Holy Ghost lighting upon him at his Baptisme whereupon that voyce of the Father from heaven proclamed him King Priest and Prophet This is my Beloved Son there he is King in whom I am well pleased there he is Priest heare him there he is Prophet Now he that denyeth or destroyeth any one of these three Offices of Christ which are inseperably inherent in him and incommunicable to any Creature denyeth Iesus to be the Christ as either denying him to be the onely King or the onely Priest or the onely Prophet of his Church Now 't is no hard matter to prove that you Prelates as Prelates deny and destroy all these three Offices of Christ. And first you deny Iesus to be the Onely Priest and that not onely in taking upon you the Title of Priests but also the Office The Title of Priest you professe and take a pride in And the Office of Priest you Priests of the Church of England doe in part at least usurpe For the Office of Christ as Priest is in two things First to Sacrifice Secondly to forgive Sins Now though you doe not yet openly professe your selves to be sacrificing Priests as the Romish Priests doe yet you take upon you to doe that which never any Priests under the Law did or might by their Office doe namely to forgive Sinnes This I say never any of the Leviticall Priests did This was and is Christs onely Prerogative as he is God and Priest For who can forgive Sins but onely God This the proud Pharisees confessed But this power you Say you have derivatively from Christ by his Authority committed unto you as Priests But first we have before proved that you are no Priests of Christ. Secondly where hath Christ given any such power even to his Apostles and true Ministers of the Gospell to forgive Sins Indeed he saith unto them Receive ye the Holy Ghost whose Sins ye remit they are remitted and whose Sins ye retaine they are retained Was this by a Priestly Absolution But the Apostles were no such Priests as you professe to be Therefore it was not by any such Priestly Absolution as you practise How then How then Say you You are here at a Non-plus if it was not by a Priestly Absolution It must needs remaine then that it was by the Ministry of the Gospell and by the preaching of Faith and Repentance and pardon of Sinnes to the Penitent Beleevers As He that beleeveth and is baptised into Christ professing his true Faith and Repentance hath his Sinnes remitted but he that beleeveth not hath his Sins still retained And this is that remitting of Sins Declarative the power whereof Christ committed to his Apostles
either in profession dissenteth or in practise differeth from the Church of Rome you reckon those among Romes corruptions Therfore on the contrary in whatsoever you are one and the same Church with Rome those must be no corruptions but the very pure Essence and Substance of that one Church which is just there where Romes is now And what are those Namely One and the same in the Hierarchy or Prelaticall Government which is so essentiall to your Church as where 't is not there 's no Church Onely with this difference The Pope Christs Vicar over the whole world and your Lordship his Vice-roy over all England that other world One and the same in all the members of this great body of the Hierarchy and in all the Officers of this Church-Government as Chancellors Archdeacons Officialls Commissaries and so downe to the very Skirts of that goodly guarded Babilonish Government One and the Same in all your Ecclesiasticall Courts as the Prerogative Court the Court of Arches the Bishops Ordinary Court the Spirituall Court the Court of Inquisition and High Commission with a little difference in the name One and the Same in their Canons and chiefly the Popes Canon Law One and the Same in your Episcopall Robes and vestments both rare and rich as purple and scarlet and fine linnen as it were the livery whereby you are known to be of one and the same house or family with that Woman Rev. 17. aliâs the Great Whore of Babilon with whom you claim Sister-hood So also in your Miters your Rochets Palls Semiters Square Caps Tippets and so cap a pied One and the Same in your Liturgy Service or Matins or Service-Booke which even your Iesuite confessed to be Catholick and so One and the Same in all your Service dressing and garbe as rich Copes Palls and other Altar-ornaments goodly guilt plate faire Crucifixes over them and devout adoration unto them and praying toward the East where your Altar and Crucifix standeth goodly gay Images and Loud-sounding Organs and sweet chanting Choristers and Chanters Deanes and Subdeanes and Prebends Epistlers and Gospellers Singing-men and Viergers and a huge Sately pome and Equipage more then I can tell where you have Long Service and Short Sermons or rather to avoyd tediousnesse none at all yea and your Service in your Cathedralls in an unknown tongue the Popish Service mumbled in a strange tongue and yours in a strange tone chanted and roared out so loud by a sort of profane and drunken Singing Men and Apish Boyes with such a black Sanctus as the people is no way edified as not knowing whether they sing a Song of Robin Hood or play a Scotish Jigge One and the Same in your Altars Priests Sacrifices Onely with some small difference in some termes and manner of expression both holding a reall presence Rome explicitly by Transubstantiation and England implicitly not daring to speake plainly how onely willing to come as neare Rome as the time will give leave in stead of an Host you will have at least your Crucifix a representation of Christs body Sacrificed on the Crosse either upon the Altar for a pawne till the Host it selfe come or as neare over the Altar as may be One and the Same in exercising an Antichristian Tyranny over mens Soules Consciences Bodies Purses Estates by holding them in hard bondage under your roaring Canons and intollerable burthens of Ceremonies but this is rather to be referred to the Title or Caput of Hierarchy the Essence and Substance of your One and the Same Church One in punishing the Transgressors of Ecclesiasticall Canons more severely then of Gods Commandements One in execution of Discipline by Excommunication in your blind Courts for every trifle which must cost more then a trifle to get off So as there must be a Commutation and Solution for Absolution One in Dispensations and Prohibitions dispensing with such as will dispend that by Licence they may Marry or eate flesh in Lent One and the Same in persecuting the true Church of Christ his Word his Ministers his People onely Rome doth it under the name of Hereticks of which you are none and you under the name of Puritans the worst of Hereticks One and the Same in bowing at the Name Iesus One and the Same in observation of Holydayes onely with some difference Rome hath more yet not an English Almanack but sets them forth at least in black attyre as the Papists veile their Images all the Lent from the peoples view to make them hunger the more after such food after their long Fast at Easter in hope that in time they may come to be cladde in Scarlet their Holy-day suit So as a Religious Gentleman late the Astronomy-Reader in Gressham-house but now translated above the Starres for Setting out an Almanacke with a Martyre to every day in stead of the Popes Saints was brought into the High Commission Court where he hardly escaped findging for an Heretick One and the Same in profaning and disesteeming the Lords day both accounting it to be of humane Authority both preferring their Church-holy-dayes before it both profaning it onely with this difference Rome profanes it onely practically but England both practically and professedly and Authentically by Speciall Dispensation and Edict One in condemning Innocents in your Ecclesiasticall Courts mixt with temporall Iudges as in your High Commission and in temporall Courts mixt with Ecclesiasticall Iudges such a sower leaven as after Ecclsieasticall Censure you deliver them over to the Secular power where through your instigation no mercy can be expected your selves being both Parties and Iudges One and the Same in holding the rule of Faith onely with this difference Rome equalling her Tradition with the Scripture and you puting a necessity of the present Churches Tradition and voyce as without which the Scripture cannot be beleeved to be the word of God as was touched before and as will appeare more fully at after So as Rome yoaketh her traditions in equall ranke with the Scripture and you put your Churches Authority and Tradition for the Forehorse to draw and lead the Scripture into mens beliefe as the Oxen drew the Arke towards Ierusalem that it is the word of God One and the Same in exempting your Clergy from the Civill power and Iudicature onely with this difference Rome hath got it in possession and you have often attempted it and openly professed your hope of Seeing the Clergy of England as high as ever they were or as the Lawyers now are In a word One and the Same in your Babilonish Faith and Religion For Rome hath so contrived some of her doctrines as those about Grace layd down in the Decrees of Trent as that those two mighty dissenting Sides about merit of Congruity to wit Andreas Vega with his Franciscans and Dominicus Soto with his Dominicans both Sides bearing a great sway and swindge in the Councel as that each side perswaded it selfe that the Decrees brought from Rome
to another it is grounded upon Nature which admits of no created thing to beare witnesse to it selfe and is acknowledged by our Saviour If I beare witnesse of my selfe my witnesse is not true that is is not of force to be reasonably accepted for truth P. Though the Scripture as it is considered in the written Letter be a Creature yet the matter of it the Light the Truth the Authority and Evidence of it is meerly Divine as wherein God hath imprinted and expressed his Divine Nature Counsell and Will So as as is said before we must never abstract the Scripture from that Spirit of God which is alwayes in it and with it as a cleare and sufficient witnesse of it and as the very life and Soule of it Whereas you with the Papists take the Scripture for no other but as a bare Letter or barke of a Tree or dead Corps without any Divine Spirit in it But you aledge Christ Saying of himselfe If I beare witnesse of my selfe c. You must know that Christ here speaks as the Jewes took him for no other as a meere Man But take him as Christ God-man in one Person and is he not a'ut●pistos worthy of himselfe to be beleeved And what Saith he when the Pharisees objected unto him Thou bearest record of thy selfe thy record is not true Though I beare record of my selfe yet my record is true Saith he For is not Gods record true And againe v. 17. It is written in your Law that the testim●ny of two men is true I am one that beare witnesse of my selfe and the Father that sent me beareth witnesse of me So may the Scripture say Though I beare record of my selfe yet my record is true for the Father speaketh in me and Christ speaketh in me and the Holy Ghost speaketh in me and all these joyntly beare witnesse in me with me and to me that I am the word of God And in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established And hereunto might I adde the many Divine and Admirable works and effects which the word of God produceth all which beare witnesse abundantly that the Scripture is the word of God Why what works what effects doth it produce Yea what not It enlightneth the eyes it quickeneth dead Soules it is that great Engine of battery that subdueth the world unto Christ. It is the sharpe two-edged sword lively and mighty in operation c. it is the mighty power of God to Salvation it is to all men the sweet savour of God the savour either of life unto life or of death unto death Loe my Lord what think you now of this Word Is it trow ●ou onely a dead letter being of such a Divine and Spirit-full efficacie as no word of man is or can be And here might I bring many negative proofes to shew it cannot be the Word of Man But let this suffice I will passe on L. p. 89. No man can set a better State of the Question then Hooker doth his words are these The Scripture is the ground of our beliefe the Authority of man that is the name he gives to Tradition is the Key which opens the doore of entrance into the Knowledge of the Scripture P. We have already answered sufficiently that the Scripture is both the Garden wherein all the pleasant Flowers and wholesome Fruits of Paradise are planted and grow which are of that beauty fragancie sweetnesse and relish as he that beholds them smells to them and tasts of them may easily discerne they are not of a terrene or earthly nature Non vox hominem son●t and it selfe is the Key that lets in those that will to tast of her Fruits which I say when they once tast they will Say This is none other but the Garden and Paradise of God even the Word of God This is that Key of knowledge for the taking away whereof Christ denounceth a Woe to the Pharises And that by this Key is not meant Tradition is plain seeing the Pharisees did not take away Tradition but they exalted it so farre as therby they made the Word of God of none effect Is this the Tradition that you call the Authority of Man and so highly commend which the Pharisees used for no other Key but as a false Key or picklocke to robbe the Scripture of their Divine Authority But if you understand by Tradition here the Delivery of the Scripture from hand to hand to be kept as a Depositum by the Church of God thus the Scripture is a rich Cabinet full of precious Jewels together with the Key or Spring-lock so united unto it as it is a part of the Cabinet and so deposited with the Church of God as by the Ministry and preaching of the Word the Key is turned and the Cabinet unlocked the Key being no other but of Gods owne making and appointing and so the Cabinet thus opened and man looking into it his eyes being also opened by the same Key there he finds that goodly Pearle of the Kingdome and that rich Treasure which to purchase he goes and sells all that he hath But suppose now for all this we should either grant your Lordship such a Key as Prelaticall Authority whereby you assume a power of opening an entrance to men to read the Scriptures when the Key is once in your hand what if you should prove so closse fisted and so churlish a Keeper as not to suffer them to come to read the Scriptures as you have done in not suffering them to heare them preached on the Lods dayes at least in the After-noones As also in so keeping fast under Locke and Key those precious Jewels of the Doctrines of Gods Grace as aforesaid as the Ministers themselves may not come at them once to touch them So as it might prove a dangerous thing and too suspicious if you had such a Key of Authority or the Authority of such a Key put into your hand men should rather be shut out from the Scriptures then have the entrance open to goe freely to them when they will But if you will needs perforce wrest this Key as the Preaching of Gods word out of the hands or from between the teeth of Godly Ministers as you have done we have no remedy but to complain to the Lord of the Vineyard and pray him to vindicate his Key out of such Hucksters hands and to force you to give up your usurped false Keyes L. p. 91. Could the Pope and his Clergie put this home upon the w●●ld as they are gone farre in it that the Tradition of the Present Church is Divine and Infallible how might they and would they then Lord it over the Faith of Christendome contrary to S. Peters Rule whose Successors certainly in this they are not P. Thus you confesse there is or may be a Lording of the Clergie over the Faith of Christendome or Christians contrary to S.
after the Pleasures after the Ease and after the goodly Palaces and Demeanes of your Bishoprick● in all which you cannot shew k●lòn ' érgon a worthy worke And so indeed these words of the Apostle and elswhere concerning a Bishop do nothing concerne you but onely to convince you that you are none of those Bishops whom the Scripture so styleth Well what be those speciall qualities which the Apostle requireth in a true Bishop set over the Congregation of the Lord It shall suffice to mention for the present purpose but some of them As first He must be Anégkletos unreprovable such as cannot be justly accused of any crime Now none of you come thus cleane to your Bishopricks for you are or may be justly accused of having been Pluralists which is against your Old Canons Non-Residents Idle Dreanes seldome Preaching in their own Cures but by a poore Stipendary Curate flattering Court-Preachers and the like Nay who is capable or heire apparent of a Bishopricke or Prelacie that hath not two or three ●at livings with a Prebend or two and a Deanery that being thus qualified having his Purse well lyned I say not that he may purchase his Bishopricke he may be able at least at his In-coming to defray five or six hundred Pounds or a thousand Markes for Fees and Feasts and Gloves at his Consecration Well secondly He must not be Authádas selfe-willed so our last Translation renders the word And beleeve me this may come neere the proudest of your Coats when you come with your Volumus Iubemus We will and command and that without either Law or Canon And you must have your will ther 's no remedy for that else ye will take the pet or pepper in the nose and cry out of contempt of Authority And the word signifieth also one that is arrogant and proud a selfe-pleaser You may take all these senses if you will Thirdly He must not be Plékges a strik●r whether with his own or others hands as delivering over to the secular Power or Sword whereby he so strikes as he sheds the blood of the Innocents He must be none of that society Fourthly he must not be Orgílos soon Angry testy or touchy such as Na●al that one might not speake to him he was so snappish and curst Fiftly he must not be Aiskrokerdès given to filthy lucre as in exacting Fees he or his Officers of poore Ministers either extraordinary at their Admissions or ordinary at Visitations and a thousand wayes besides Viis modis sine modo in your Bishops Courts Sixtly He must be Philágados a lover of good men not a hater and persecuter of them Seventhly he must be Díkaies just not oppressing Innocents by a faction and confederacy of voyces forepacked in your Courts before the Cause come to be heard Eightly He must be Osios holy not one that is an enemy to all true holinesse and persecutes the very name of it and suppresse the practise and meanes of it as by crying down the sanctification of the Lords day and the sincere Preaching of the word of God and commending and dispensing with profane sports on that day Ninthly He must be Didáktikos apt to teach not onely sufficient and able for his Scholarship or one that can make a Sermon if he will but he must be diligent in preaching in season and out of season He must hold fast the faithfull Word that he may be able by sound Doctrine both to exhort and to convince the Gainsayers So farre must he be from abbetting and countenancing false Teachers and unsound Doctrine and old damned Heresies and forbidding to preach sound Doctrine and punishing those that doe I might reckon up sundry more qualities which Christ requireth in those whom onely he allowes and appoints as fittest to govern and feed his People as becom●th good Pastors to doe their flocks as 1 Tim. 3. and Tit. 1. and elsewhere But because Lord Prelates or Diocesan Bishops as I said before are none of those Bishops here which the Apostle requires to be thus qualified therfore I have said enough to convince you that you are none of Christs Bishops if you do but look your selves in this Glasse And if you mark it well these are those that immediately succeded the Apostles and Euangelists in the Ministeriall function As we read Eph. 4.11 where the Pastors and Teachers are those who are elswhere called Presbyters and Bishops such as Paul and Barnabas did Keirotonesi elect ordaine or appoint by imposition of hands Kat ' e'kklesían in every Church or particular Congregation A place very remarkable And these Presbyters Bishops Pastors Teachers Preachers Ministers for all is one and the same Office as they succeded the Apostles but with a particular limitation every one to their peculiar charges and Congregations respectively so while the Apostles lived they were still next unto them as we see Act. 15.2.4.6.22 23. And these are those Elders that rule well which especially doe Kopian labour hard in the Ministry of the Word and Doctrine These are those Aristoi those Optimates the best men by whose Aristocraticall Government according both to the thought we may boldly and truly say and to the expresse word of Christ the severall Churches and particular Congregations and flocks of Christ are governed and that not by any their own devised Canons but by the onely Canon of Scripture wherein are expressed all those Laws and Rules by which all true Ministers of Christ doe regulate themselves and govern their severall Congregations For although Christs faithfull and true Ministers are the best men and therfore are but few in comparison and who is fit or sufficient for these things saith the Apostle yet Christ left them not to governe his Churches or flocks as they should thinke best but according to his own Laws as Deputies are to govern the people according to the Kings Laws and no otherwise For such is the Government of Aristocratie it is established upon good Laws of the Common-weale otherwise it should degenerate into the corrupt and bad Government of Oligarchia So as here is no roome for your Diocesan Lord Bishops for you are none of those Aristoi Optimates the best m●n whom Christ thought fit for the Aristocraticall Government of his Church sith ye are neither qualified for it as he requires in his true Bishops nor will you confine your Prelaticall Government to the Laws of Christ expressed in his word but will govern by your own Canons and lusts as usurpers use to doe And therfore by the way no mervaile if you speake so contemptibly and basely of the holy Scripture seeing in them you can find no ground either of Precept or Apostolick Precedent for your Antichristian Hierarchy All which considered doth in the second place give us just cause to doubt at least or rather to be well assured indeed that Diocesan Prelates or Bishops as you usurpe the Title are no Vice-Roys under the Great King Iesus Christ because your
and needs the Churches mouth and if it be dead as being not living Certainly it can be no fit Iudge at all except ye will admit of a Judge that is both blind and dumb and dead As three Romans being sent in Ambassage one a Foole an other a Coward the third having the Gout Cato told the Senate they had sent an Ambassage that had neither Head Heart nor Feet And such a Judge would you make the Scripture But 't is visible you say So are your dumb dead and blind Images in your Churches they are visible and very conspicuous when the Scripture oftentimes can neither be seen nor heard Now to your Generall Councels L. p. 192. And surely what greater or surer Iudgement can we have where sense of Scripture is doubted then a Generall Councel I do not see And pag. 211. The making of Canons which must bind all particular Christians and Churches cannot be concluded and established but there to wit in a Generall Councel P. 224. I said The Determination of a Generall Councel erring was to stand in force and to have externall obedience yeelded to it till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration to the Contrary made the errour appeare and untill thereupon another Councel of equall Authority did reverse it And pag. 226. Now suppose a Generall Councel actually erring in some point of Divine Truth I hope it will not follow that this Errour must be so grosse as that forthwith it must be known to private men And doubtlesse till they know it obedience must be yeelded Nay when they know if the Errour be not manifestly against fundamentall verity in which case a Generall Councel cannot easily erre I would have A. C. and all wise men consider whether externall obedience be not even then to be yeelded And p 227 Therfore it may seem very fit and necessary for the peace of Christendome that a Generall Councel thus erring should stand in force till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration make the errour to appeare as that another Councel of equall Authority reverse it And ibid. No way must lye open to private men to refuse obedience till the Councel he heard and weighed And p. 261. A Councel hath power to order settle and define Differences arisen concerning Faith This power the Councel hath not by an immediate Institution from Christ but it was prudently taken up in the Church from the Apostles example Act 15. And ibid. If the Councel be lawfully Called and proceed orderly and conclude according to the Rule the Scripture then the D●finitions therof are binding but not from calling another Councel to reverse or abrogate the former Asts upon just cause P. 346. 'T is true that a Generall Councel de pace facto after 't is ended and admitted by the whole Church is then Infallible for it cannot erre in that which it hath already clearly and truely determined without Errour After 't is confirmed 't is admitted by the whole Church then being found true it is also Infallible that is it dece●ves no man And p. 347. For a man upon the pride of his own Iudgement to refuse externall obedience to the Councel was never lawfull nor can error stand with any Government P. 357.358 Christ did just intend to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie either Contentious or Curious or presumptuous spirits And therfore in things not fundamentall nor necessary 't is no matter if Councels erre in one and another and a third the whole Church having power and meanes enough to see that no Councel erre in necessary things c. If it erre in things necessary we can be Infallibly assured by the Scripture the Creed the 4. first Councels and the whole Church where it erres in one and not in another And pag. 360 For one Faith necessary to Salvation a most infallible certainty we have already in the Scripture the Creeds and the 4. first Generall Councels to which for things necessary and fundamentall in the Faith we need no assistance from other Generall Councels P. 378. I submit my Iudgement with all humility to the Scripture interpreted by the Primitive Church and upon new and necessary doubts to the judgement of a lawfull and free General● Councel And I absolutely make a lawfull and free Generall Councel Iudge of Controversies by and according to the Scripture And p. 386. I have expresly declared that the Scripture interpreted by the Primitive Church and a lawfull and free Generall Councel determining according to these is judge of Controversies P. Thus in your Commending of Generall Councels you are very large that I may not say lavish too And surely in one respect especially you have great Reason for your Generall Councels must consist of Prelates onely so as in exalting Generall Councels you magnifie your Prelacie But I remember a saying of Basill that in his Observation he never knew any good to come of Generall Councels of Bishops who when they met in Councel were more zealous and eagre for their own particular Honours and Dignities then of the Church of God And as Bernard saith Totus fervet Ecclesiasti●us zelus sola pro Dignitate tuend● All the zeale of Church-men is inf●amed altogether for the advancing and upholding of their Dignity But let us now take a briefe view of your words which we will collect and reduce to certain summary Heads First That Generall Councels are the supreme Iudge of the sense of Scripture when and where 't is doubted p. 192. Secondly that the Canons and Decrees of Generall Councels bind all Christians of necessity p. 211. Thirdly yea though Generall Councels determine Errors yet that requires at least externall obedience Fourthly That Generall Councels erring in some points of Divine Truth yet you hope it will not be so grosse as to come to the common view or if it doe yet obedience must be yeelded p. 226. onely except the Error be not manifestly against the fundamentall Verities Fifthly That a Generall Councel hath no power from Christ to be Iudge in Controversies but the Church prudently tooke it up from the Apostles example Act. 15. Sixtly That the Difinitions of Generall Councels bind being according to the Rule the Scripture yet that those may be reversed by an after-Councel Seventhy A Generall Councel in things clearely and truly determined cannot erre but in that is infallible Eightly That it is pride not to obey the Councels Difinitions yea unlawfull and not standing with any Government Ninthly That Christ intended to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church but not to satisfie contentions or curious or presumptuous spirits Tenthly That it is no matter if Generall Councels erre in one two three c. things not fundamentall nor necessary Eleventhly That for necessary Faith to Salvation we have an Infallible certainty in the Scriptures Creeds and 4. first Generall Councels to which for things necessary we need not the Assistance of any other Generall Councel Twelfthly That the Scripture interpreted by the
And Virgil also a heathen Roman Poet did afterwards take and borrow this from Plato expressing it in his Aeneads And so from these two might Origen borrow his Purgatory and the Church of Rome from them all three might out of this lake of Plato or Pluto if you will borrow so much Bitumen or Pitchy matter and so casting into it the stone Asbestos which being once kindled is not quenched againe it became the hot-burning lake of Purgatory as namely for the purging of Indifferent men such as are neither hot nor cold neither Beleevers nor Infidels neither Christians nor Heathen neither good fish nor flesh Indifferent between Papists and Protestants halfe for Christ and halfe or rather All for Belial Reconcilers of light and darknesse of Truth and Errour or as the Papists say such as had onely veniall sinnes not throughly purged with holy-water in this life and therfore must be purged with fire what water could not doe untill after a Venal Masse chanted for their soules they should be delivered and so passe the Pikes into the El●sian Fields And this is both Authority and Antiquity sufficient for your Purgatory though you bestow much sweat in this hot Stove and in pursuing this Ignis fatuus yet haply it may purge you● Reputation of that venial opinion which men have of you L. p. 375. Rome but with all other particular Churches and no more then other Patriarchall Churches was and is radix existentiae the root of the Churches existence And The uni●ersall Nature and Beeing of the Church hath no actuall ●xistence in all her particulars And this I say for her existence onely not the purity or forme of her existence which is not here considered P. These words confirm what you have said before of your Catholicke Church consisting of particular Patriarchall Prelaticall or Hierarchicall Churches throughout the world all of them visible and conspicuous in these it existeth as in the root this existence may be without the consideration of purity as a Church may be a true Church of Christ and yet not be holy Having then answered these things before it is sufficient for this And this still confirmes what I have said of Christs true and onely holy Catholick Church which is a matter of faith in the Creed This true and onely holy Catholick Militant Church of Christ hath for its prime Radix or Root Christ in whom it existetth subsisteth and hath its beeing Then it is diffused into all the members of Christs mysticall body all the Elect over the world or in any corner thereof to the end of the world and hath no existence at all in the Hierarchy or Prelacie or in any one visible Church or particular place or Countrey but it lyes hid as the sappe in the root in all the Persons of the Elect onely and the substance and life thereof is hid with Christ in God the Prime root And the existence of this Catholicke Church cannot be considered possibly without Purity and Holinesse for it exists no where but in purity and holynesse so as every person is holy in whom it existeth And so much for this L. p. 370 371. But if she be not the Catholicke nor the root of the Catholicke Church yet Apostolick I hope she is Indeed Apostolicke she is as being the sea of one and he a Prime Apostle But then not Apostolicke as the Church is called in the Creed from the Apostles no nor the onely Apostolicke Visible I may not deny God hath hitherto preserved her but for a better end doubtlesse then they turne it to The Church of Rome indeed Apostolicke Why so As being the sea of one and he a prime Apostle That was Peter you mean sure He was a Prime Apostle though not the Prime 〈◊〉 somtimes Iames is placed before him Gal. 2.9 And Paul was no whit inferiour to those 3. Iames Peter and Iohn who were Pillars and seemed to be somwhat And in this respect may you not possibly meane Paul rather then Peter for Paul we are sure was in Rome and there preached though in prison But we read no where in Scripture that Peter was at Rome much lesse that he sate there Bishop of Rome and so fixed his Chaire there If therfore you mean Peter and pitch upon him though the Popes are faine to use somtimes two strings to their bow and to challenge their succession both from Peter and Paul and some stories speake both of Peter and Paul as Bishops there I say if you pitch upon Peter how doe you prove that Peter was at Rome and if at Rome whether Bishop there and if a Bishop there why consequently must that Sea be still Apostolicke seeing non sedes sed fides not the seat but the Faith makes Apostolicke But there be many reasons and arguments from Scripture some that Peter was not at Rome others and those more demonstrative that he was never Bishop of Rome as Pontifex or Prelate such a Bishop as you meane I have seen a Booke Printed in English by Authority which proveth that Peter was never at Rome And this he doth by computing and comparing the times and other Circumstances in the Acts and Pauls Epistles with those Histories which say he was there and Bishop there which stories neither agree with the Scripture nor with themselves nor with other Histories profane And if Peter were at Rome how cometh it that Paul being there doth not in all his Epistles make mention of him Was Peter either so obscure as Paul should not know him to be at Rome Or so proud of his new Prelacie as not to acknowledge his fellow Apostle now a Prisoner Or what was it that Paul doth not so much as mention him Because Peter being for the Circumcision should a'llotrtoepiskopoin take Pauls Bishoprick over his head who was for the Uncircumcision whereof Rome was the Metopolis Or had Peter with Demas forsaken Paul imbracing this present world in a Lordly Bishopricke But let it be given you that Peter was at Rome and Lord Bishop of Rome what then Ergo is the Church of Rome indeed Apostolicke Did Peter leave his Apostolick Bishopricke by an Intayle ●o all his successors in Rome Are ●hey Apostolicke when they are become Apostates from the faith Alas alas your words utter your spirit but no truth Onely one thing you deliver as doubtlesse where you say Visible I may not deny God hath hitherto preserved her but for a better end doubtlesse then they turne it to Visible Ergo the Pope is Peters successor Ergo the sea of Rome is indeed Apostolicke Ergo a true Church of Christ. For visible it is It is indeed that visible and conspicuous City on its seven tops or hils whereon it stood in Iohns time and now that Woman that sits and rides mounted on her seven-headed ten-horned Beast Visible with a witnesse otherwise all her pompe would loose the Grace if it wanted spectators as her Scarlet and Purple and Pearle and