and explaned Page 53. 54 The summe of the second answere touching the true meaning of the Scripture 1 The substance and soule of the scripture is the true meaning Page 59 2 The sense is not that which most hold but which is agreeable to the scripture ibid. nota 3 Papists make the Church the interpreter of scriptures that is first Bishops then Councels in their defect the Pope for he so challengeth it that whatsoeuer he thinketh that must be the meaning of it Page 60 4 It is very absurd to hang the sense of the scriptures vpon one mans iudgement especially vpon the Pope so vnlearned and absurd an interpreter as many of them haue bin Page 60. 61 5 They teach the sense of the scripture may be changed with the times and occasions Page 61 6 Foure senses of euery scripture made by Papists Page 61. 62 7 The manner of interpreting the scriptures amongst Protestants which is auncient and safe Page 62 8 Protestants do not exclude Christ from the supper as Papists falsely accuse them yet they include him not in it as Papists do his naturall body they place in heauen but the virtue communion and benefit of this body they exclude not but mainteâ—â— that whole Christ is present to each mans faith Page 63 9 Christ is as present in Baptisme and was to the Fathers as in the Supper ibid. nota 10 The popish and false interpretation of these words This is my body this my bloud confuted by the same rule whereby Campian would confirme them that is by conference of them with the words adioyning Page 64. 65 11 That the words of the sacrament bee figuratiue is proued by the induction of other sacraments Page 65. 66 12 There is no miracle in the sacrament Page 67 13 Papists affirme that the wicked eate the body of Christ as well as the beleeuer Page 67 14 All antiquity is on the Protestants side for the interpretation of the words of the sacrament against the Papists and so their transubstantiation is a new inuention Page 67 15 The testimonies of Tertullian and Augustine alleadged and of Theodoret. Page 68. 69 16 The testimonie of Macarius a Monke Page 70 17 Campian dealeth vnequally pressing the Protestants to leaue the iudgement of the scripture and stand to the iudgement of the Pope being an enemy to them Page 71 The summe of the third answere touching the nature of the Church 1 The true notes of the Church whose present being maketh a true Church whose absence marreth and ouerthroweth it are the word the whole and pure sacraments Page 77. 78 2 The Church is more hid and vnknowne then the Scripture Page 78. nota 3 The Church is euer and must be vpon the earth and oftentimes inuisible compared therefore of Augustine to the Moone Page 78 4 In the daies of Ahab and of Christ it was inuisible or scarce visible Page 80 5 Succession not necessary to the being of the Church for it hath bin and yet no Church as in the Church of the Iews Page 81 6 The small number of the faithfull as Christs 〈◊〉 Pag. 82 7 What is a visible Church Page 82. 83 8 Though perticular Churches are visible it followeth not that the Catholike Church is euer visible ibid. 9 The antiquitie of our faith and doctrine is from the Apostles time Page 83. 84 10 Superstitious growing vpon the Church Page 84 11 The growing of the Popes authority to the height it is now at 84. nota 12 The bringing of Images into the Church Page 84. nota 13 The Grecians not subiect to the Romish Church ibid. 14 The vow of virginitie not vnderstood by faith in S. Paul and what is meant by it Page 86. nota 15 To what Church the Protestants will subscribe Page 87 16 In the visible Church are both good and hypocrites in the inuisible only godly and faithfull men Page 88 17 The distinction of visible and inuisible make not two Churches but one and how they differ and what the Catholike Church is nota The summe of the fourth Answere touching generall Councels 1 Protestants with consent of antiquitie prefer the Scripture before Councels Page 94. nota 2 Nazianzenes hard censure of Councels Page 95 3 The first Councell hold by the Apostles and Church by necessarie consequent condemneth the multitude of popish ceâ—â—â—â—nies Page 96 4 Augustine condemneth the multitude of ceremonies in his time how would he complaine if he saw the multitude of popish ceremonies Page 96 5 Gregories speech expounded touching the foure generall Councels Page 97 6 The iudgement of the Church of England touching the foure generall Councels Page 98 7 The Popes may not haue Peters honour seeing they haue not his vertues and pietâ—â— 99 8 The Canon of the Councell of Nice vtterly ouerthrowed the supremacie of the Pope giuing him no authoritie ouer other churches no more then others ouer his Page 100. 101 9 The Councell of Calcedon doth not confirme the Popes supremacie but ouerthrowes it The Councell gaue to the church of Râ—â—â— greater prerogatiues because it was the chiefe seate of the Empire and not for any law of God and made the Bishop of Constantinople equall with the Bishop of Rome Page 101. 102 10 The Councell of Constantinople gaue vnto the sea of Rome the honour of precedence and place not of authority Page 103 11 The Councell of Ephesus ascribeth no more to the Bishop of Rome then to other Bishops ibid. 12 The Councell of Nice doth not establish the vnbloudie sacrifice of the altar for in the canon named there is no mention of sacrifice or altar Page 104 13 The Fathers haue called the Lords Supper an vnbloudie sacrifice because it is without bloud and not because no bloud is then shed Page 105 14 Saincts departed know neither vs nor the things we do or slâ—â—â—d in need of no reason then we should pray vnto them though the custome be auncient it hath no warrant Page 106 15 Saincts departed know our generall conditions as we theirs not our perticular state nota 16 S. Paul prayed not to the Romanes and Corinthians as Papists do to Saincts but required of them a christian dutie nota 17 The Councell of Calcedon admiâ—teth ministring Widowes who are but 40. yeares of age forbidding them marriage when as S. Paul would haue them 60. before they be admitted Page 107 18 Duraeus confesseth that in the first age they did not prefer continone is before marriage nota 19 They who haue vowed single life and cannot performe it haue done euill in vowing but not in marrying and for to vow things not in our power is to mock God Page 108 20 Chastitie and single life is not in mans power nota 21 Cyprian alloweth Virgins who haue vowed virginitie if they cannot liue honestly to marry Page 109 22 Campian maketh the Councell of Trent and other Councels equall with the foure Euangelists Page 110 23 Priuate men alleadging the scripture rather to be beleeued then the
profitable and fruitfull Finally what is a Christian life but that which is spent in the duties of charity for all Christians are bound vnto these duties Then notwithstanding all these Gregorie is still with vs. Nazianzen de haer Philosoph Nazianzene speaketh no lesse honourablie of this ciuill and sociable life than of the solitarie life of Monkes which your cloister men cannot indure Ambros in Rom. cap. 1. r DVR Ambrose codemneth suffragators not intercessors that is such as might informe God what we are not such as might commeÌ„d our vvants to him WHIT. pag. 446. As if God did not know as well our wants without an intercessor as what we are without a suffragator If he do why should the one be allowed more then the other This new distinction of yours I thinke our Vniuersity men neither know not wil acknowledge or what is intercessioÌ„ but a suffragation or what do you els desire of the Saints but that they would speake fauourablie for you to God Ambrose enueigheth bitterly against them who thinke it necessary for them when they would goe to God to vse some mediatours as men doe in courts of Princes before they can bee brought to the King himselfe they must seeke the fauour of some of his neere attendants Doth not this thing touch you doth not this speech draw blood of you who neuer aske any thing of God in your prayers but first you seeke some of the Saints to bee a mediatour for you to whom you commend the care of your businesse and requests Hieron Ep. Å¿ DVR Hierome neuer vvriteth thus but affirmeth that there is the like difference betwixt a Bishop a Priest and a Deacon as was betwixt Aaron and his sonnes and the Leuites Epist ad Euagr. And if there be equality it is in iurisdiction not in povver of order WHIT. pag. 447. It is strange that you deny that which Hierome directly affirmeth in the beginning of the same Epistle namely that the Apostle doth plainly teach that a Bishop and a Priest are all one and this he proueth by many testimonies of the Scripture And vpon the 1. chap. to Titus hee affirmeth plainly that a Bishop is aboue a Priest by custome not by Gods ordinance And so must that be vnderstood you bring out of the forenamed Epistle And where you acknowledge the same iurisdiction of both by the law of God which happely slipped from you vnawares their vnequall power must needs be only by the law of man Hierome did too much contemne your Pope and other your glorious Bishops when hee writeth that a Priest and a Bishop by the law of God are all one doe you iudge him worthy to bee a Father of the Romish Church the Bishop whereof you make not onely to be farre aboue all Priests but also all Bishops t DVR Leo the Pope did decree this first of all and Gelatius the fourth after him confirmed it least any of the Manichies vvho superstitiously and vvickedly abstained from blood might looke among the Catholikes WHIT pag. 451. I will accept your answere though your Gratian bee against it But who seeth not what a goodly patron you are of the popish cause who make the Manichies the first author of the dismembring of the Supper But whosoeuer did it Gelatius censureth it thus The diuision of one and the same mystery cannot bee without great sacriledge And so by a Pope is the whole Popish Church condemned of sacriledge Gelasius who himselfe was a Bishop of Rome condemneth your drie and maimed supper as Sacrilegious and strictly commandeth De consecrat dist 2. Comperimus Vigil lib. 1. cont Eutych that either the whole be receiued or it be wholly omitted Will the authoritie of the Pope moue you no whit at all Vigilius writeth that Christ is departed from vs in his humane nature u DVR Vigilius meaneth that Christ withdrevv from the vvorld the visible presence of his humanity and not the humane nature himselfe WHIT. pag. 453. But the words that follow after shew the cleane contrary He therfore is vvith vs and not vvith vs because whom he left and from whom he departed in his humanity he hath not left nor forsaken in his Diuinity And againe in lib. 4. contr Eutych vvhen he vvas in the earth hee vvas not in heauen and novv that he is in heauen hee is not in the earth And againe hee vvas circumscribed in a place according to his humane nature and not conteined in a place according to his Diuinity this is the Catholike confession and faith vvhich the Apostles haue deliuered the Martyrs haue confirmed and the faithfull haue kept to this day If this be the Catholike faith then are not you Catholikes vvho iudge farre otheâ—vvise of the humanity of Christ The Sonne of God in his humane nature is gone from vs but in his diuine nature hee is alwayes with vs whereas you say Christ is present in both natures * DVR Chrysostome because hee savv many so addicted and giuen to theaters stage plaies and impious Interludes did thus admonish them lest they should distast the reading of the Scriptures WHIT pag. 458. Be it so haue you also no impious places and spectacles and prophane exercises And yet vvith you any thing is lawfull saue reading of the Scriptures But vvho so readeth Chrysostome in Ioan. hom 13. in Epist. ad Coloss hom 9. de Lazaro hom 3. shall find that he required this simplie necessarily and generally of all men Chrysostome exhorteth lay men and all the people that they would get them Bibles Chrysost ad Coloss hom 9. in Ioan. hom 8. reade the Scriptures and that at home in their houses the husband with the wife the father with his children would conferre among themselues of the Scriptures But this neither can nor lawfully may be done in your Church yea it is a certaine proofe of an heretique for any to haue the Bible in his house What shall I say of Augustine who in the greatest and most principall controuersies as of grace predestination free will iustification the Scripture the Law the Gospel sinne good workes Sacraments and Church is wholly and fully ours I should neuer make an end if I should pursue particulars and collect but a little of euery thing Gregor lib. 4. Epist. 30. 34. Gregory the great though he was a Bishop of Rome yet will he take our part against you For tell mee doth hee not touch your Pope to the quicke when peremptorily he affirmed that whosoeuer should call himselfe the x DVR Gregory condemned Iohn because he sought for such an authority ouer all Bishops as the Emperour had ouer the Kings vvho are subiect vnto them WHIT. pag. 460. Whether Iohn of Constantinople sought such a povver or no it is not certaine but no man can be ignorant how the Pope affecteth it And long ago hath not only got authority ouer the Bishops but hath subdued the Emperour
also happily at thy commaund though not to be drawne with thy hand speaking to the Pope WHIT. pag. 747. Duraeus is ashamed of this sophisme buâ— yet he fathereth it vpon Bernard which also Iohannes a Capistrano of the Pope and Councels p 77. and others of them haue handled and Pope Boniniface girt himselfe with a sword in signe hereof but this place speaketh nothing at all for any such power Pope must beare both swords The seruant is not aboue his master therefore i DVR What Catholike euer taught or wrote thus howbeit the Fathers of the Sinuessan Councell said The chiefe seate is iudged of no man WHIT. pag. 749. Thus you will make the Pope no Catholike who saith Dist 40. si Pâ—pa The Pope may bee reproued of no mortall man though he leade with him innumerable people vnto hell And who knoweth not these two pillers of Popery the Church of Rome cannot erre whatsoeuer it teacheth and the Pope may not be accused whatsoeuer â—e doth The Bishops of the Sinuessan Synode spake to Marcellinus the Pope who had denied Christ and committed Idolatrie and might bee accused by the Popes owne lawes so that in citing that authoritie you contradict both your selfe and your lawes it is lawfull for no man to accuse or reproue the Pope Christ prayed that Peters faith should not faile him k DVR Christ made Peter his Vicar on earth and by his prayer obtained that his Vicars faith might not faile by force vvherof the Pope cannot erre as Augustine and Cyprian also perceiued WHIT pag. 750. It is not true that Christ made Peter his Vicar nor doth it follow Peters faith failed not therefore no Popes faith hath failed who are his successors for Popes haue done and may fall into heresies as you will confesse and may erre in faith saith Pope Boniface Dâ—st 40. Papa which he could not do it this argument of yours vvere true Further Christ prayed for all his Apostles and the whole Church shal we say Christs prayer was lesse effectuall for the rest then for Peter If it be not then none of their successors could erre no more then Peters which I suppose you will not affirme And Augustine and Cyprian neuer reasoned as you do you abuse their names therefore the Pope cannot erre The vulgar people commeth seldome and negligently to the Lords Supper l DVR If you beleeued the Prophet Malachie or the Masse you vvould confesse this argument to be good WHIT pag. 753. You can neuer proue your Masse by the Prophet Malachie who speaketh of the prayers of the godly as Tertullian Eusebius and Jerome expound him and if the Masse were a sacrifice indeed as you call it the peoples negligence is no sufficient cause to make it priuate and yet to profit the people yea though they be absent you may aswel abuse the Word it selfe so and say it is inough when it is in publike it the Priest handle it and heare it and beleeue it alone yet the people being absent and not dreaming of any such thing may be saued by it therefore the Priest may celebrate priuate Masse Christ admitted onlie his Apostles to Suppe therefore Priests alone must m DVR The people also receiue the vvhole Sacrament vnder one kind WHIT pag. 754. It is childish dotage to say so as though one part of a thing were the vvhole or as if Christ appointing both bread and wine ordained more then a whole Sacrament that Pope was wiser vvhich said of certaine heretikes that refrained from the Cup as you doâ— De concil dist 2. cap. Comperimus Let them either receiue the vvhole Sacrament or refuse all DVR Christs vvords Drinke yee all of this proue nâ—t that all Christians must doe so WHIT. pag. 755. They doe proue it as those vvords take eate doe proue that all must eate and you may as vvell keepe both the elements from the people as one contrarie to S. Paul 1. Cor. 11.23 DVR The Passeouer might be eaten vvithout vvine WHIT. pag. 756. It might because God had not commaunded vvine but Christ himselfe commaundeth it in his Supper 1. Cor. 11.45 DVR The common people are aâ—t bound to drinke of the Cap for S. Paul saith As oft as ye drinke it to signifie they were not commanded so to doe WHIT. So he saith of the bread also As of as yee eate 1. Cor. 11.26 so that by your argument neither is the bread commanded them receiue the Sacrament the people ought to bee contented only with one part The title which Pilate fastned vpon the Crosse was written in Hebrew Greeke Latine therfore n DVR No Catholike doth so reason we say that title had in it a mysterie and Augustine proueth by it that the vvord coessentâ—all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be vsed in the Creede WHIT. pag. 757. Papists often reason thus as all men knovve which read their writings though you bee ashamed of it Tell vs what mysterie you meane if it bee worth the labour as for Augustine hee speakes no word that makes here for your cause yet you blush not to quote him prayers must bee read in the Churches in no language but either Hebrew or Greeke or Latine Harding That which is holy must not be giuen to dogges o DVR VVe say not that all but that some of the people may not haue the Scriptures committed to them WHIT. pag. 758. Who doubteth but that vvisedome is to be vsed in teaching the people and that they vvhich shevv themselues dogges and hogges must be barred from the Scriptures but this is nothing to the present question vvhether this reason be good vvhich Papists sometimes vse and vvhich here you should haue spoken to and not thus vvander therfore the vulgar people must be forbidden to reade the Scriptures This is my bodie therefore the p DVR Christ said it vvay his bodie WHIT. pag. 759. Christ by an vsuall phrase of Scripture called the thing signifying by the name of the thing signified because of the sacramentall ioint receiuing of both to vvit of the bread vvith the mouth and of his bodie by faith Againe if that vvhich vvas in Christs hands vvere his reall body vvhen he said so then vvas transubstantiation before vvhich you deny and then he had tvvo bodies but if it vvere bread then is there a metonymie in his vvords as vvee truly say bread is turned into Christs bodie Fall downe before his footestoole q DVR Ambrose and Augustine reasoned so from this Scripture WHIT p. 761. That is false they teach onely that vve must vvorship Christ in the mysteries and Sacrament not the myâ—teries and Sacrament themselues therefore the Sacrament must be worshipped God is no respecter of persons Pighius r DVR That vvas Pighius his error but the iudgement of Catholike Vniuersities is that foreseeing of merits is no cause of Predestination WHIT. pag. 762. Thus you fall from your champion Pighius in vvords
you Ireneus Victor Polycarp Cornelius Cyprian Sixtus Laurentius are ours But I affirme that all these do belong vnto vs let vs then consider how you will perswade vs they are yours Telesphorus enioyned a more strict obseruation of Lent fast appointed by the Apostles e DVR But J proue it by these witnesses Augustine Hierome Basil Ambrose Epiphanius Clemenâ— WHIT. pag. 862. And I proue the contrary by the Fathers August Epist. â—6 writeth plainely that neither Christ not his Apostles ordained any certaine time for fastings And so not Lent Tertul. aduer Psychicos In times past ChristiaÌ„s indifferently fasted of their owne free will as euery mans time and occasions required and not by any coÌ„mand of new gouernmeÌ„t Doth not this ouerthrow the necessary obseruatioÌ„ of Lent Chryso in Mat. hom 47. freely confesseth that Christ did not command vs to imitate his fast But what is Lent but an imitation of it Further Montanus was the first who brought vp set solemne daies of fastings Euseb lib. 5. cap. 17. Finally Ireneus in Eusebius lib. 5. cap. 26. sheweth that in the Primitiue Church there was great variety about the keeping of this fast and that this difference began not in his time only but was long before Therefore it is false that Christ and his Apostles appointed the fast of Fortie daies I deny that the Apostles ordeined any such Lenâ—en fast or that Telesphorus commaunded a more precise obseruation thereof The Apostles were farre from ordeining and Telesphâ—rus from reuiuing so great superstition Clemens his Constitutions where this is reported are not sufficient authoritie But if this fast were prescribed by the Apostles I wonder how afterwards it was discontinued so as it should bee necessarie for Telesphorus to enioyn the keeping of it more precisely especially seeing such strife was in the Church about the celebration of Easter The epistle of Telesphorus wherein he commaunds the 7. weekes fast hath the same authority with the rest of your decretall epistles of your Pope which were not framed by the most holy Bishops themselues but coyned since by the most impudent Parasites of the church of Rome Jren. lib. 4. cap. 43. Ireneus say you declared the Apostolike faith from the succession and sea of Rome So he might well then for as Ireneus elsewhere saith They retained with the succession of Bishops the gratious succession of truth for succession is nothing worth without truth Your Chaire and Sea hath Bishoply succession it hath not the succession of truth Victor say you by his edict subdued Asia He endeuored it indeed Campian but failed of his purpose for being a man very passionate he would needs excommunicate all such Churches of Asia as refused to keepe Easter according to the Romane custome When he began thus insolently to abuse his authority f DVR Neither Ireneus nor any other denied to Pope Victor this power to excommunicate the Churches of Asia WHIT. pag. 863. But Eusebius wriâ—eth lib. 5. cap. 25. that both Ireneus and many other Catholike Bishops sharpely reproued him for assuming that power Ireneus tamed and restrained him As for the controuersie about Easter Victor was so farre from composing and ending it that it coÌ„tinued vnto the g DVR By the same reason you may say the CouÌ„cels decree preuailed nothing to endiâ—â—â— controuersie WHIT. pag. 864. The reason is good proueth that wheÌ„ he could preuaile neither by examples reasons nor threatnings that those Churches did not accouÌ„t Pope Victor for the head of the Church And though after that Councell of Nice some Churches obserued the Passeouer after another manner yet the most Churches followed the iudgement and authoritie of the Councell So the Councell preuailed more then the Pope could doe Councell cell of Nice You may see how well Victor subduer all Asia Polycarpe in the question about Easter went to Rome Smyrna gathered his reliques Wonderfull reasons Polycarpe went to Rome to consult with Anycetus about Easter and Smyrna gathered his reliques ergo Polycarpe is yours Doth not the learned Vniuersities make you ashamed of this childish sophistrie h DVR Enuie maketh you forge an vntruth And whil for eunie you pine avvay aâ— the honor which is giuen of Christians to the reliques of Martyrs you imitate the Jewes and the Diuell WHIT. pag. 865. I haue spoken neither lesse nor more then Eusebius hath written who theÌ„ liued After we had gathered his banes being more precious then pearles and gold we buried them where it was thought sit And as for the reliques of Saiâ—ns I enuy them not the Saints themselues I euer honorablie remember But that the reliques of Saints were worshipped with religiâ—us honor as they are in your Church you shall neuer be able to proue His bones indeed were gathered by the Church of Smyrna not to worship them but to bury them as Eusebius in the same place recordeth But why are Cornelius and Cyprian yours forsooth because Cornelius abolished the i African error and Cyprian had him in great reuerence Oh wonderfull Iesuiticall Logick l DVR His supreame authoritia appeareth in this because hee decreed that controuersie being not the Bishop of Africke but of Rome WHIT. pag. 866. Saint Paul confuted many errors of the Churches of Galatia Coâ—inth Rome and diuers others yet was hee neuer supreame Bishop So did Augustine But what error did he suppresse was it touching Baptisme by heretikes that he neuer could doe but Cyprian and the Bishops of Africke constantly held it which proued they neuer acknowledged that he had any such authoritie who can chuse but be much moued with such strong reasons But let vs heare another Sixtus is ours and why so Seauen of the Clergie ministred vnto him while hee serued at the altar Seauen Deacons helped Sixtus to celebrate the Lords supper ergo Sixtus is yours If this reason be of force let him be yours hardly I will not striue with you about him but herein is nothing why he may not as well be k DVR Pope Sixtus a Priest offred vp the body and blood of Christ Deacons assisting of him could not bee a Caluinist but on our side WHIT. pag. 868. As if we had no Deacons who helpe the Minister when he celebrateth the Lords Supper ours as yours Doth it become you Campian thus to trifle thus to abuse our patience What followeth Laurence is yours how so I pray you Our aduersaries haue cast him out of their Calouder We remember him with reuerence as a saint and a friend of Christ though we worship him not as God But Prudentine prayed vnto him a thousand yeares agoe Giue leaue Campian to a Poet to vse poeticall auersions from whence yet no strong reason can be drawne But if Prudentius were something too superstitious what is that to vs Now you recken vp virgins Câ—cilia Agatha and others but what haue they done why they should not be ours When the Tyrants examined them of their faith they
19 Prayers in an vnknowne tongue profit not the people as Duraeus thinks they do ibid. nota 20 Nazianzene alloweth and praiseth ciuill societie no lesse then Monkish life ibid. 21 Ambrose condemnes all prayers to Saints and their intercession Page 163 22 Duraeus vaine distinction of Intercessors and Suffragators ibid. nota 23 Hierome makes a Bishop and a Priest of equall authoritie bâ— the laâ— of God ibid. 24 Pope Gelasius condemneth as sacrilegious the tâ—king away of the cup from the people and commaundeth that either both the elements be giuen to them or neither Page 164 25 Duraeus maketh the Manechies the first authors of dismembring the supper ibid. nota 26 Vigilius denies the presence of Christ in the Church in both natures ibid. 27 Chrysostome exhorteth all men to reade the scriptures ibid. 28 Augustine is wholly on the Protestants side Page 165 29 By Gregories iudgement he that calleth himselfe Vniuersall Bishop is a fore-runner of Antichrist Page 161 30 Iohn Bishop of Constantinople first challenged the title of Vniuersall Bishop ibid. 31 What is meant by vniuersall Bishop by Gregories iudgement which toucheth the Pope home ibid. nota 32 Boniface the 3. tooke the name of vniuersall Bishop and deriued it to his successors Page 166. nota The summe of the seuenth Answere touching histories 1 Campian only numbering vp the Historiographers foolishly concludeth all are on their side page 169 2 Protestants refuse not to examine their doctrine by histories so they be not tied to the apparent blemishes in theÌ„ Page 170 3 Historiographers are tainted with the corruptions of their times and the later they are the more corrupt for the most part they are found to be Page 161 4 The church of Rome is maruelously corrupted though we could not tell when it begun to be so and yet see the beginning of some particulars as of vsurped authority ouer Churches of deniall of Priests mariages of worshipping Images of carnall eating in the Sacrament of Transubstantiation of Purgatory of the Pope aboue Councels Page 177. nota 5 The corruption of it greâ— not all at once no more then of Ierusalem but by little and little as in the Greeke church also Page 172 6 The heads of the heretikes who rose vp in the Greeke church so of those who rose vp in the Latine church ibid. nota 7 The Church all the Apostles time was a pure virgin after their departure became corrupt Page 173. 174 8 The promises of the Churches perpetuall preseruation from corruption did and do belong to the Church of the elect not to particular Churches ibid. nota 9 In the Councell of Africk where there were present Page 217. Bishops and Augustine himselfe the Bishop of Rome affected to haue all appeales made to him but the Councell denied it vnto him Page 175 10 The Legates of the Pope forge a Canon of the Councell of Nice to perswade this Councell which forgerie is found out by search ibid. 11 Augustine and the Bishops of Africke censured for schismatikes by Boniface for resisting the Bishop of Rome who affirmeth that they were moued vnto it by the Diuell Page 176 12 Eulalius the first Bishop of Carthage who admitted the Popes power ouer the Churches of Afrike ibid. 13 Then became the Church of Rome plainely Antichristian when Phocas the murtherer granted to her to be the head of Churches and Boniface the 3. to be vniuersall Bishop ibid. 14 Gregorie the great was the last good and the first bad Bishop of the church of Rome Page 177 15 Bernard and Aeneas Siluius who was afterward caâ—â—d Pope Pius maruellously inueâ—ed againsâ— the corruptions of the church of Rome ibid. 16 Bernard cryeth out of the pomp of Eugenius the Pâ—â—e and the impietie of his court ibid. nota 17 All sinnes in Rome might both be practised and reprehended Page 1â—8 18 The censure of Cornelius which he gaue of the church of Rome in the Councell of Trent ibid. 19 The Argument is weake the church of Rome was once holy therefore it is so still ibid. 20 Rome though it be Babylon yet not that which S. Peter spoke of 1. Pet. 5.13 Neither haue they yet prooued that Peter was at Rome Page 179 21 If histories do mention any such thing yet it is with such varietie that there is no certaintie of it in the scriptures there is not one tittle of it nay by necessary collection they disclaime it when as this then is the whole ground of the hierarchie of the Papacie it is a ground without any foundation of the scripture ibid. nota 22 Caluine confesseth the church of Rome in the time of Syricius and other Bishops to haue bene the Church of Chriâ—t but denies not but it had erred Page 181 23 Errors ouerthrow not a Church for being a true Church ibid. 24 Syricius the first who inforced single life vpon the Ministers ibid. nota and Page 182 25 Syricius and Innocent did condemne marriage as euill Page 182. nota 26 The Church of Rome is but a Church in shew and pomp else it hath nothing in it of a true Church Page 183. nota 27 Pelagius and Papists agree both about grace inbred in mans nature ibid. The summe of the eight Answere touching the Paradoxes of the Aduersaries 1 Caluin nor any Protestant maketh God the author of sin pag. 193. nota and Page 194. nota 2 God hath a finger in the action which is euill not in the corruption of it which is wholy from man but in the motion and action which is in it selse good Page 195 3 If wee say God permitteth sinne vnwillingly wee ouerthrow his prouidence and omnipotencie he willeth yet alloweth not that which is euill Page 196 4 Men are guiltie of sinne in the things they doe which are euill and yet God holy though he willeth them Augustine and Hugo de Sancto Victore doe so thinke Page 197. and Page 198 5 The Lord worketh both in him that sinneth and in him that worketh well but after a diuers manner Page 199 6 Christ is the Sonne of the essence of the Father not by decision or propagation but by communication But he is God of himselfe Page 201. and nota 7 The essence is not begotten but the person of the person Page 202. and Page 203 8 Beza corrected his error of two personall vnions in Christ. ibid. 9 The 10. of Iohn vers 30. expounded and defended that it proueth not the vnitie of essence in Christ his Father Page 204 10 Not Luther only but many of the Fathers disliked and repented the bringing in of the word Homousion yet they held the thing Page 205 11 Christ was not at the first perfect in wisedome but mcreased as in bodie so in his minde and wisedome Page 206 12 Christ was ignorant of many things but without sinne Page 208 13 Christ was ignorant of the last day as man and not onely because hee would not or did not reueale it to others Page 208. nota
Aduersaries I was in so doing most vain-glorious and proud aboue measure for that I considered neither them nor my self more deeply But if vpon considerations of the cause I thought my selfe able enough to proue that this sunne shineth now at Mid-day you must beare with this my feruent zeale which the honor of Iesus Christ my King and inuincible truth haue vrged me vnto Yee know that Marcus Tullius in his oration for Quintius when Roscius warranted him that he should get the better if he could proue that it was not possible for a man to trauaile 700. miles within two daies space was not only nothing afraid of the force and strength of that famous Orator Hortensius but also cared nothing for Philippus Cotta Antonius or Crassus who were Orators farre more excellent then Hortensius was And were as he iudged the principall Orators of his time There is vndoubtedly a truth in all matters so apparent and euident that neither any iugling trickes or enchaunting words can darken the beames thereof But that which I intend to proue is much more plaine then was that supposition of Roscius for if I shall proue this that there is a heauen a God a faith a Christ I haue gotten the victorie Should I not in this cause then be couragious Truly wel may I be killed but ouercome I cannot be for I depend vpon those Doctors whom that holy spirit hath instructed which can neither be deceiued nor ouercome I beseech you haue a care of your soules health of whom I shall obtaine this I expect the rest assuredly Let this be your only care and cogitation First to giue your selues to earnest prayer then diligentlie to studie also and yee shall find out the very depth of the matter and that the Aduersaries are in despaire and that we being so surely grounded haue good cause chearefully and couragiously to looke and long after these disputations I am the shorter in this preface because that all the Treatise following appertaineth properly to you Fare you well AN ANSWERE TO CAMPIANS EPISTLE WRITTEN TO THE STVDENTS OF THE two famous Vniuersities Oxford and Cambridge A Yeere agoe you write it fell out That according to the order of the religion which you professe vpon the commaundement of your Superiours you returned into this Iland Whether Campian you came willingly and of your owne accord or of a certaine necessitie by the order of your profession and Iesuiticall sect you were compelled to returne into England whence some yeeres ago you departed I will not be inquisitiue of because it is not much for the purpose we haue in hand It had bin far more glorious for you and more befitting the person you made shew to be not to haue crept in obscurely and by stealth but to haue returned with credit and authoritie But who is he that had power to send you an Embassage into a forreine country or what necessity lay vpon you to obey his commaundement who had no authority to enioyne you a iourney whither you were vnwilling to goe If that Spanish Souldier the first Author of your Iesuiticall societie were now aliue and should enioyne you to set your country on fire would you obey him I am sure you would say he would neuer commaund so foule a fact And yet he might better commaund and you execute that then this thing for which you professe you are now come hither For whether I pray you may we deeme lesse to set houses on fire then to diuert the minds of people from true Religion to trouble the peace of a Common-wealth to estrange the minds of loyall Subiects from their lawfull Prince and to turne all things topsie turuie which yet was the end of your comming and the order of your profession required no lesse at your hands But let vs heare how you go about your Embassage when say you I had gone further into England I saw nothing more vsuall then vnusuall punishments But Campian what be they Do you eft-soones so slaunder the mild gouernment of gratious Elizabeth accuse it of cruelty England neuer enioying a more mercifull Prince that you affirme you find nothing so common as vnusuall punishments But what new kind of torture haue you seene in Englād since you came into it Or which of your men can you name who hath bin condemned put to death for Religion not only since you came into England but for these 23. yeeres the whole time that good Elizabeth hath swayed the Scepter of this kingdome It is true indeed that some few haue bin punished who iumpe with you in opinion and Religion but they died not for religion but were by open iudgment of law conuicted of Treason There was of late executed one Euerard a Priest sent from the Colledge at Rhemes into England Who though he was in daunger to the Lawes many waies yet might haue had his life but that impudently at the barre he vttered things shamefull vile and intolerable For he boasted himselfe both to be the subiect and Vassall of the Pope euen in England and affirmed that the Pope was no lesse the head of the Church of England then of the Church of Rome Auouching further that he was verily perswaded that the Pope did not erre when he termed Queene Elizabeth an Heretike and the Patron of Heretikes and denounced her no lawfull Queene Euerard was for this confession conuicted and condemned who afterwards as if this had not been enough in prison professed plainly and directly in the presence and hearing of Sixteene men of credit That it was no sinne against God to commit treason against his Prince Yet for all this he suffered no new and vnusuall punishment but the same that all Traytors suffer among vs in the like case But who are you and what is your religion that you so bouldly obiect crueltie vnto vs Heare me this one thing Campian and denie it if you can It is not long since moe of our brethren were condemned by you at one Session executed in one day consumed in one fire then you can recount to me haue yet bin put to death for the Popes cause at any time or by any kind of death in the whole happie raigne of Queene Elizabeth Doe but call to mind Campian the rare cruelty the exquisite tortures the frequent Martyrdome of former times and if there be in you any sparke of humanity you cannot chuse but confesse that your side hath been extreme cruell and we sufficiently prouoked to seueritie against you and to haue repayed you with the like For what times I pray you can afford vs such and so many butcheries of men as was to be seene when you were Lords ouer vs and which are yet fresh in memorie Tell vs what sexe or age you spared and did not bloodilie execute all without difference and distinction of learned or vnlearned male or female old or young Children Virgins Married Clergie and Laytie Bishops Archbishops escaped not your hands The Martyrs you did
WHIT. pag 272. It the Arrians or any other heretike can proue the doctrine of their Churches out of the holy Scriptures they may answere the same which we doe for euery Church which holdeth the Apostles doctrine may professe that all cities village◠〈◊〉 which were religous were seasoned with their doctrine for in the Apostles time all Churches all cities all townes euery family embraced the same faith and religion which we now professe After that by little and little the purity of doctrine n DVR Tell me then from whom and in what age any doctrine of our profession was brought into the Church WHIT. pag. 277. The motion of the Sunne is so very swift that we may see it hath moued though we cannot discerne the mouing of it so such is the mystery of your iniquity that I well perceiue by the Scriptures your doctrines are not Apostolicall but the time when and the manner how they were brought in is not much to our purpose And it were too long to tell all yet heare some Your Romish Bishop a long time together was but equall to other Bishops thâ—ugh much was giuen to him for the excellency of that Church After the Christian world was diuided into foure Prouinces when he became the chiefe of the Patriarkes after this he began to challenge authority ouer other Churches and for that purpose counterfeited the Councell of Nice but he was repressed by the African Councell Then Gregory the great greatly inueyed against Iohn of Constantinople because he sought the name of vniuersall Bishop and for that ambition called him the forerunner of Antichrist Lastly Boniface the eight with a great summe obtained that honor of Phocas the Parricide And since that hee grew to that height that hee made not only Churches and Kings but the Christian Emperour himselfe to kisse his feete But see another example Time was when there were no images in Churches As that of Epiphanius proueth who rent a vaile in peeces because there was in it an image of Christ or of some Saint But in time they were receiued into the Church but no honor giuen them yet after that good Bishops brake them and cast them out againe as Gregory writeth that Serenus the Bishop of Massilia did whom he thus checketh for it In that you forbad them to be worshipped wee commend you but that you brake them we reprehend you Gregor regist lib. 7. Epist. 9. Lastly the second Nicene Councell decreed that they were not to be broken yea that they were religiously to be worshipped And thus hath it succeeded in other things as S. Paul did foretellâ—e saying The mysterie of iniquitie doth alreadie worke 2. Thess 2.7 began to be corrupted and diuers superstitions spread far and neare though the holy Fathers did as much as they could resist 2. Thess 2.7 vntill that mystery of iniquitie which tooke rooting in the very Apostles time spread it selfe o DVR VVhat can be spoken or imagined more wicked and impious WHIT. pag. 278. Then prophesied S. Paul impiously when he did so â—â—â—ell of a departing and that Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God Is this any other then that the mysterie of iniquitie should spread it selfe ouer the Church by all the parts of the Church and at length possessed it wholy Yet Antichrist that man of sinne could neuer preuaile so farre but a great multitude of the Saints remained and those whose names were written in the booke of life did vtterly abhorre all those filthie and wicked superstitions of Antichrist For in the Church of Rome it selfe euen in the worth times of it yet many were euer found who worshipped the God of their Fathers and kept themselues vnpolluted with that horrible Idolatrie And this can histories of all times witnesse which I could now recite if it were needful and reckon vp to you many houses villages townes cities and countries where Christ had many and populous Churches The p DVR This is very false for in the FloreÌ„tine Councell the Emperour Paleolus together with the Grecians and Armenians freely acknowledged the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ and imbraced the Romane faith yea and at this day they dissent from vs in few things as Icremy the Patriarke of Constantinople hath plainly written WHIT pag. 279. Why are they then of you accounted Schismatickes or vvhy obey they not the Pope why came they not to the Councell of Trent the Pope by al meanes hath sought to haue theÌ„ subiect to him but they stil coÌ„temne him to his no small griefe It is true the Emperour the Patriarke and a multitude of Bishops came to the FloreÌ„tine CouÌ„cel They agreed vvith theÌ„ in many things â—â—â—hers they dissented your TraÌ„substantiation they vtterly renouÌ„ced At that time Iesaphus their Patriarke suddenly died Eugenius the Pope instantly vrged a nevv election They denied to make any till they came to Constantinople See you not hovv vvell they agree I haue a booke of yours not of Ieremies neither vvill a small thing make me beleeue it is his for both the Grecianâ— and particularly he hath giuer great approbation of our Churches as vve find it in his vvorkes published both in Greeke and Latin Greeke Church could neuer yet be brought to ioyne it self to your Church and it is 〈◊〉 opposite to you as euer our Church was And yet you so forge these things as if the Pope of Rome long agoe had had the whole world vnder his subiection Vntill that vnhappy Monke as you say by his incestâ—â—â—â— marriage had defloured a Nunne dedicated to God by 〈◊〉 soleâ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 or vntill that quarrelling Swâ—â—â— had câ—â—spired against his country or that infamous â—â—â—â—gate had vndertaken an vsurped authority in Geâ—â—â—â— So Campian go on to raile and reuile euery good man powre out the gall of your bitternes seeing you haue vndertaken to spend all your venemous darts vpon them Luthers name is written in the book of life and his memory shal euer be sacred among all good men and your reproaches shall not be able to pearce or wound him It is a true saying that a false repreach pierceth not the skinne you call him Monke your selfe is but a Frier now Monkes were euer accounted more honest then Friers But he by incestuous marriage deâ—â—oured 〈◊〉 Nomâ—â—â— dedicated to God by solemne vow q DVR But you goe against S. Paul who directly denounced damnation to those who will marry hauing broken their first saith which is vnderstood by all the Fathers of violating the vow of single life by incestuous marriages WHIT. pag. 281. But how proue you that the Apostle vnderstaÌ„deth by that faith the vow of virginity Nay the scope of the place sheweth vs the contrary for he forbiddeth that younger widdowes whom he perswadeth to marry should be taken into that office only such as were threescore yeares old who may well abstaine from marriages follow this calling Now if they be not of this age he sheweth
suppose that we did euer attribute thus much to these Councels that we iudge all that to be necessarily embraced whatsoeuer they haue decreed heare you now what our Church hath thought and ordained of these generall Councels Councels not only may erre but also sometimes haue erred In the Artic of Religion Artic. 21. and that in these things which belong to the rule of piety and therfore whatsoeuer by them is decreed as necessary to saluation hath no vertus nor authority vnlesse it may be shewed that it is taken ouâ— of the holy Scriptures Cite you now these words and then contest as you call it your sweet couÌ„try And in like maÌ„ner this your most deare countrie in which you were borne brought vp and graced doth contest intreat and beseech you by all those things which are vnto you most sweeâ—e and best esteemed that you desist any more in this bâ—dde cause to be troublesome vnto her that you will noâ— corrupt her children with an impious and strange religion that you will make more preciouâ— account of her dignity then of a forraine enemie and that you would at length returne thither from whence you haue straâ—ed And surely you would not contemne this speech of your country if you could euen for a litle space lay aside that preiudicate opinion which you haue sucked from Rome and brought with you hither into England But let vs heare what is this your contestation If say you you will reâ—erence these fourâ— Councels you will chiefely honâ—r the Bishop of the chiefâ— Sâ—â— that is Peter And so do we ascribe great honour vnto Peter and that worthily neither doe we contend with you about him but this affirme that those things which were proper vnto Peter cannot in any wise appertaine to your Pope who was neuer like either Peter or Paul And in truth what madnes is this so insolently to bragge of Peters great vertues when in the meane time you cannot proue that your Popes are indued with any such Do you suppose that any man that is in his right wits will thinke that Peters faith piety and all the rest of his vertues haue bin deriued to your Pope by a lineall descent from so many other Popes of whom a great number were not men but monsters This doubtlesse is a grosse dotage and fit to be taken away Quouis helleboro dignum with the mad mans purge and as one saith for those diseases reprehension is the best maâ—â—â—r of cure Should I entitle your Gregoriâ— the 13. who now gouerneth at Rome with the name of Peter doth he teach doth he feed Christs sheepe surely he cannot Doth he performe the duty of an Apostle or of a Bishop nothing lesse How therfore doth he demeane himselfe Sitting in the Vatican he prouoketh to warre moueth seditions armeth subiects against their Princes and filleth the whole world with vproâ—â—â—â— Did Peter thus behaue himselfe is this to be Peter can you deny that these things be true and shall I then yeeld vnto him the like honor that is due to Peter being so vnlike him in conditions But let vs further examine your words You will say you chiefely honor the Bishop of the chiefe Sea that is Peter but by what Councell doe you proue that necessary you alleage the Councell of Nice Can. 6. In which there is not so much as any mention of the Bishop of the chiefe Sea or of Peter neither in truth could any thing be produced of greater force against your Bishop then that decree of Nicene Synode for it matcheth all Metropolitanes and Patriarkes in an equall ranke of honor with the Bishop of Rome neither doth it attribute any more to him then vnto the Metropolitanes of Antioch Alexandria and the rest of the other Prouinces If you please you shall heare the words of the Councell Concil Nicen Can. 6. d DVR This cause by you alleadged maketh much for establishing the authority of the Romane Sea ouer all Churches For vvhen as the Fathers to proue the authority of the Bishop of Alexandria alleage the custome of the Church of Rome they shew hereby that Alexandria dependeth vpon Rome as the mother Church froÌ„ which she hath all her authority And that this was their mind appeareth by the words of Paschasmus the Popes Legat in the Councell of Chalcedon is also proued by the 39. Canon translated out of Arabicke into Latin The same Fathers likevvise assembled at Sardis approued the Supremacy of the Romane Sea WHIT. pag. 299. Nothing could be alleadged more direct against the Romish Supremacy then this Canon wherin their own proper limits of iurisdiction are assigned to euery Metropolitane For if the Pope should rule ouer the whole Church it had bin absur'd to limit euery one their owne borders wherein they should haue supreame authority according to the custome of the Church of Rome Neither doth this proue the supremacy of the Romish Church because they alleadge her custome and example as you ignorantly inferre seeing an example may be taken aswell from an equall or inferiour as from a superious It is no maruell if Paschasinus being the Popes Legate spake for the supremacy of the Romane Sea neither is his testimony to be regarded being a party Your Arabicke Canon is meerely Arabicke and not Nicene for of this Councel there were only 20. Canons written in Greek and not in the Arabian tongue The Canon of the Councell of Sardis helpeth you not seeing the Councell of Africke testifieth that iâ— was counterfeite Let the ancient custome be in force which was in Aegypt Libya and Pentapolis that the Bishop of Alexandria haue the chiefe dignity ouer all these things because also this was the custome of the Bishop of Rome and in like manner at Antioch and in the rest of the Prouinces let the Primacy and authority be receiued vnto the Churches You see Campian I suppose that no extraordinary prerogatiue hath been giuen to the Bishop of Rome and that his Prouince and Iurisdiction hath been circumscribed within determined bounds and borders Ruffin lib. Decimâ— And after this same manner doth Ruffinus if you do not credit vs interpret this Canon This Auncient custome is obserued at Alexandria and in the citie of Rome that the Bishop of Alexandria take the charges of Aegypt and the Bishop of Rome of the Churches of the cities neire adioyning And therefore let the Bishop of Rome take care of the bordering Churches of the neighbour cities with which the Nicene Synode hath enioyned him to rest satisfied and hereafter let him not trouble himselfe with the care of our Churches which appertaine not vnto his charge And so you see that if you had been well aduised you would neuer haue mentioned this Councell Act. 4.16 But you adioyne also vnto this the Councell of e DVR The Councell of Chalcedon standeth so directly for the supremacy of the Romane Sea that you ca with no shifts auoid it For therein
Dioscorus as for diuer other faults so especially for excommunstating the Pope vvas depriued of Episcopall authority Act. 3. Besides they writ thus to Pope Leo. He exteÌ„deth his madnes against him vnto whom the custody of the vineyard is committed by our Sauiour and against thee who labourest to vnite the body of the Church Againe they desire that their decrees should be confirmed of the same Pope And Paschasinus saith that the Pope of Rome vvhichus head of all the Churches depriued him because as Lucentius addeth hee presumed to call a Councell vvithout the authority of the Apostolike Sea WHIT. pag. 302. This councell is so far from confirming the Popes supremacy that it plainly ouerthroweth it for though Pope Leo with all earnestnes opposed against the honor and dignity of the Bishop of Constantinople yet he obteinâ—â— of the Councell that degree of honor which he desired which he could not haue done if the Councell had acknovvledged the Popes supremacy Concerning Dioscorus he was depriued for many notable crimes as murther blasphemy against the Trinity burglary adultery and excommunicating the Pope and you make this last a speciall cause of his depriuation as though it were a more heinous crime then murther adultery and blasphemy Therein aduauncing your Pope as your manner is aboue the blessed Trinity The committing of the vineyard to Peter maketh nothing for your Pope who is not Peter nor any thing like him Proue that it was committed to the Pope and you say something The confirmation of the decrees was not a thing proper to the Pope but also appertained to the other Patriarckes and Metropolitanes yea to the Emperors Paschasinus and Lucentius accusing Dioscorus say not a word of the Popes supremacy although they were the Popes Legates And whereas he calleth Rome the head of all the Churches his meaning was that it was the first greatest and most famous Church Chalcedon that thereby you may proue that the chiefe honour is to be ascribed vnto the Bishop of the chiefe sea that is vnto Peter I graunt Campian that this sea in time past was had in the chiefe place of honour and I know very well that the chiefe dignitie was attributed to the Bishop of this sea the reason whereof you may easilie perceiue out of the selfe same Councell For this was not done by any commaundement of Christ that the Church of Rome should excell in dignitie all other Churches of the world but the Fathers testifie that the cause why that Citie was inuested with greater priuiledge than others was this because it was the chiefe seate of the Empire You may finde the words themselues in the same acte which you cite Act. 16. But if as you say the Church of Rome ought to haue the preheminence aboue all other Churches in the world in diuine authoritie what then ment the Chalcedonian Fathers to affirme that there were some prerogatiues graunted vnto that Church for this cause alone in that Rome was the head of the Empire and therefore they thought that the Bishop of that Citie which was the Empresse of the world was worthie of some more honour than others And this honour to speake of was onely this that the Bishop of Rome should haue the preheminence of place in Councels the prioritie of speech in deliuering his opinion and the precedence in rancke and place And thus neither doe we our selues now much enuie this honour to the Romane Bishop but that if so it please him he may enioy it so that he doe not because he hath the chiefe place imperiouslie tyranize ouer his brethren as he hath done for many ages and perswadeth himselfe that he may doe it lawfully But seeing it pleaseth you to obiect vnto vs the CouÌ„cel of Chalcedon that you may challenge the chiefe honor as due to your Bishop of the chiefe Sea before I proceed further I would gladly you should resolue me in this question why the f DVR This was not the iudgement of the whole CouÌ„cell but of certeine men Neither did the Constantinopolitanes require that their Sea should be of equall authority with the Sea of Rome but that it should haue the like soueraignty in Ecclesiasticall matters and obtainâ— the next place to it WHIT. pag. 306. This was the iudgment of the whole Councell except the Popes owne Legates Paschasinus Bonefacius and Lucentius who in vaine opposed for the decree runneth thus These things we all say these things please vs all And contrary to your assertion these Fathers decreed that the Bishop of Constantinople should be matched in equall priuiledge with the Bishop of Rome which equality of priuiledges cannot stand with the vnequality of authority Neither did prioritie of place proue that the Bishop of Rome had any priority of authoritie sâ—â—ing this was only for orders sake otherwise by the same reason the Bishop of ConstaÌ„tinople should haue had the like authority ouer the Bishop of Alexandriâ— because he sate aboue him Fathers of this Councell made the Sea of Constantinople equall to the Sea of Rome for so they decree and diffinitiuely determine that seeing great priuiledges were graunted to the Church of Rome in respect of the Empire of the citie they thought it a matter of great equity that the new Rome that was now graced with the Empire and Senate should enioy the same priuiledges which old Rome had done And although the Bishop of Rome did most earnestly contend and labour that the Bishop of Constantinople might not be made his equall yet he could not by his best meanes effect his desire but that the decree of the Councell preuailed which had equalised the Bishop of Constantinople with the Bishop of Rome And therefore me thinkes you haue but ill defended the honor and dignity of your Bishop when you alleadge the decree of that Councell Moreouer the Councell of g DVR The filth Canon of the Councell of Constantinople ascribed greater honor to the Romane Sea then to any other WHIT. pag. 311. This honor was only of precedence and place and not of authority as plainly appeareth in the words of the Councell it selfâ— Chap. â—8 and in that the like prerogatiue was graunted in the next place to the Bishop of Constantinople and therefore by the like reason he might â—rrogâ—â—â— authority ouer the whole Church Constantinople which you also cite Canon 5. decreed no other thing for the Romane Sea then that the Bishop of Constantinople should haue the prerogatiue of honor next to the Bishop of Rome And this we also confesse that in times past the Prouinces were so distributed that Rome had the chiefe Constantinople the next and so euery one in their owne order But what maketh that to this cause which we haue now in hand For this is not the honor which the Bishop of Rome challengeth vnto himselfe this not the height of power and maiestie which he so often arrogateth Ephes Conc. in Epist ad Nestor The Councell also of h DVR
and authoritie with him and forbids all appeales to the Bishop of Rome Therefore he must needes deest your Pope who preferreth himselfe both in dignity authority before all other Bishops from all parts drawes vnto his courts all appeales i DVR Cyprian in this place speaketh not at all touching any appeale WHIT. pag. 434. If you consider the place well you shall find that he inueigheth against certaine false Bishops who being condemned by the voices and censures of the Bishops of Afrike for iust causes vvould haue the causes pleaded againe at Rome before Cornelius the Bishop And in his discourse 1. He shevved that causes ought to be heard vvhere the crimes are committed And so not things done in Afrike at Rome 2. He affirmeth that euery Bishop hath his portion of the flocke for which he must giue an account Then not the Bishop of Rome the vvhole nor the administration of all causes finally he calleth them desperate and forlorne men vvho thought the authority of the Bishops of Afrike to bee lesse then of the Bishops of other countries and so vvith reproach hee reiecteth the supreame authoritie of the Bishop of Rome Is there heere any thing lesse then vve haue affirmed Lactantius writeth that it is a thing without questioÌ„ Lactan. 2. cap. 19. k DVR Lactantius speaketh not of the Images of Christians but of the Idols of the Heathen vvhich he condemneth because they are made of the earth besides the Ieves had their Cherubins WHIT. pag. 436. He nameth not Idols but Images such as your Church is full of and so can there be no religion in it Besides your Images are no more heauenly then theirs but made of the earth as theirs who pretended for themselues as he vvriteth lib. 2. cap. 2. as you do that they vvorshipped not the Images but the God expressed by them Further for the Cherubins they were placed in the most holy place into vvhich the people might not enter not yet looke in and shevv vs particular precepts for yours as they had for theirs and vve haue done But he that commanded theirs forbiddeth euery vvhere all others There can be no religion wheresoeuer there is an image If hee now liued and saw your Churches full of images would he acknowledge any signe of true Religion Athanasius affirmeth Athanas conts a Gentas That the holy Scriptures giuen by inspiration are sufficient to instruct men in all trueth wherein with one word hee hath put to slight the whole armies of your l DVR VVill not all your Vniuersity men account you a cosener vvhen Athanasius ioyneth the bookes of the Fathers with the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 438. If Athanasius say asmuch as I affirme The Scriptures are sufficient of themselues vvhy do you reptoach me but he addeth the bookes of the Fathers he doth but not as traditions differing from the Scriptures but as Commentaries vpon them For saith he by reading of them a man may in some measure vnderstand the sense of the Scripture These vvords make not for you neither against vs therefore I vsed neither cosening nor disceite traditions Epiphanius sharply reprooueth certaine foolish women Epipham lib. 3. Haeres 79. who worshipped the virgine Mary with a certaine new kind of worship and condemneth all that superstition m DVR Epiphanius speaketh nothing of the adoring of the Saints but reproueth â—omen for offering vp sacrifices to the Virgin Mary aâ— to a Gâ—â—ldâ—â—â—e WHIT. pag. 440. Nay he speaketh against the adoration and honoring of Saints and not of sacrificing only his vvords are plaine â—et none of the Saints be adored The vvord he vseth signifieth to bovv and prostrate our selues and to vvorship one vvith Diuine honor vvhich being proper to God you impiously giue to the Virgin Mary and to other innumerable Saints Let none saith he worship the Virgine Mary What would he say if hee now saw not onely foolish women but also men and all mortall wights n DVR No Câ—tâ—oâ—ike doth offer vp sacrifice or performe vowes to the Virgin Mary WHIT. Yet you confesse you do such things to the honor of the Virgin and other Saints I pray you what may be the meaning of this you offer vp sacrifices and vowes to God in honor of the Saints let me demaund of you as Epiphanius of these women what Scriputre â—peaketh any thing of this matter Then answere your Masses are they offered to the Virgin Mary or for her whether soeuer Epiphanius saith It is foolish strange and that vvhich proceeded from the spirit of Diuels Againe who knoweth not that you offer vp prayers and intercessions to the Virgin Mary and all Saints And no man is found either so greatly couetous or so little superstâ—tious but he voweth somewhat to some Saint specially to the Virgin Mary offering vp sacrifices and vowes to the Virgine Mary Basil in Epist ad Cleric Neocaesariae Basil is the author that in his dayes there was a o DVR Basil doth not say it was the custome of all Churches WHIT. pag. 442. It seemeth you haue not read Basil reade the place and you shall find these words there The câ—â—ome we now keepe is consonant and agreeable to all the Churches of God And he reckoneth the Churches of Aegypt Afrike Thebes Palestine and all who vse singing of Psalmes custome in all Churches that the people repeated the Psalmes in the holy assemblies But in your Churches the people can p DVR As if the publike prayers of the Church did not profit the people vnlesse they vnderstand the 〈◊〉 what a foolish dreame is this WHIT. pag. 443. We had rather dreame with the Apostle then watch with you for thus S. Paul speaketh 1. Cor. 14 4.5.6 He that speaketh a strange tongue speaketh not vnto men but vnto God vers 6. If I come vnto you speaking diuers tongues what shall I profit you Strange tongues then profit not vnlesse your tongues haue some more Diuine power then the Apostles tongue had neither heare nor vnderstand those things which are read but are onely deluded with ridiculous gestures and pompous shewes q DVR Gregorie neuer thought so but in the same place he commendeth the solitary life as more excellent then any humane condition neither speaketh he of the common life of Christians but of that vvhich is spent in the duties of charity WHIT. pag. 444. I proue it easily out of his words Hierome the Philosopher saith he proposed vnto himselfe to know whether of our liues vvas more to be vvished for and more profitable to the end he might make choice of it And when he knew that euery man was not borne for himselfe only but for all others who beare the same nature with him he embraced this common life rather then that solitary life Doth he not now preferre this life and from the praise he giueth the other he hath somewhat detracted when he sheweth that it is only for themselues and so lesse
Churches Apostasie out of these your owne Chronicles they are no secrets but such as any man that will reade and obserue may easilie discerne And since you call vs vnto Histories f DVR Two things here are of which you would persvvade the Reader one that the Fathers of the Councell allovved not that vvhich the Pope affected by his Legates another that the Legates did malitiously produce a forged Canon What vvould you doe if you could find any thing of vvaight in any storie against vs WHIT pag. 494. They are the things indeed wherein I would instruct the Reader and what can any storie afford vs more solide and perspicuous for whether you respect the aâ—â—bition and fraud not vsed in former times by the Bishops of Rome or the authority of the Councell or that famous sentence giuen against the Bishops of Rome there is no man so ignorant and vnexperienced but he will confesse that they enacted and decreed a great matter and of no smale importance I will put you in mind of one thing related in an auncient storie consider it well whether it touch your Pope or no and then answere fully concerning the whole matter A Councell was assembled in Africke of 217. Concil Carthag 6. cap. 3.1.7.9 Bishops whereof Augustine himselfe was one the glorie and starre of Africke I will set downe the story briefly Zozimus Bishop of Rome sent thither his Legates which should perswade the Fathers of Africke that appeales might be made to the Bishop of Rome from all other Bishops The Legates make relation hereof vnto the Fathers and withall produce a Canon of the Councell of Nice wherein the priuiledge was recorded the Fathers wonder at this new decree and answere the Legates that they neuer saw any such Canon in any copie Greeke or Latin and that as they thought the true and perfect copie of that Councell remained with them which Cecilianus Bishop of Carthage which was himselfe present at that Councell had brought into Africke notwithstaÌ„ding they determine to send to Constantinople Alexandria and Antioch such as might receiue the true and naturall copies from the Bishops of those cities The Popes Legates would faine haue stayed them from sending but could not Cyrill Bishop of Alexandria and Atticus of Constantinople deliuer vnto the messengers the copies with letters to the Fathers of Africk wherin they do auouch that those copies were most true and sincere Concil Afâ—â—c Can. 105. Then at length the forgery appeareth in the Canon of the Councell of Nice no such thing can be found so they writ to Celestine then Pope and command him to surcease from making any such claime euer after and not to send abroad his Collectors lest thereby they may seeme to bring the presumptuous smokie pride of the world into the Church of Christ The Pope for the time yeelded not voluntarily but perforce for an hundred yeeres after Boniface the second in an Epistle vnto Eulalius inueigheth bitterly against Aurelius Bishop of Carthage which was now President of the African Councell and affirmeth that hee and his fellowes whereof Augustine was the chiefe were all moued by the deuill to withstand the Church of Rome thus Pope Boniface censureth as schismatikes Aurelius of Carthage other the African Bishops yea and Augustine himselfe among the rest because they resisted the Bishop of Rome in that matter as for Eulalius then Bishop of Carthage he giueth him great thankes because he made friendship with the Church of Rome that is he willingly permitted the immediate power of the Bishop of Rome ouer the Church of Africke These things I haue related out of their truest records and of this kind I could rehearse many more so little cause haue you to promise your selfe much helpe out of Historie Hence may bee perceiued what the purpose and endeuour of the Bishops of Rome haue bin these many yeares viz. to make themselues Lords of all Churches which also at length they obtained But because you aske the question and desire answere when Rome lost her faith so much commended and what that which once was ceased to be I may truly affirme that though in many things she had made shipwracke of faith before yet theÌ„ did it begin to be the seate of Antichrist when Phocas the murderer granted vnto Boniface the third that the Church of Rome should be head of all Churches and the Bishop of Rome should be called Vniuersall Bishop I will not too curiously search into the moments of times a mischiefe creepeth priuily for a time vnespied of men But the common opinion which men conceiued of those times was that Gregory the great was the last good and the first ill Bishop of Rome He was no better then he should be and all that succeeded him were starke nought euery one striuing to goe beyond his predecessor in all lewdnes so that now a sincke of all wickednes hath violently burst into the Church and hath possessed all the parts therof You force me Campian to open the sores of your Church which I had rather not touch but you are so vnreasonable that you neither spare vs nor your selues Barnard who was the only religious man your Church had for many yeares how often and how grieuously doth he bewaile the most desperat estace of your Church g DVR Bernard speaketh not of the doctrine of the Church but of the manners of the vvicked and in the Church the euill men were euer mixed among the good WHIT. pag. 504. I wonder vvhat was in your mind when you confesse that the manners of your predecessors were such as he describeth both heere and ad Eugen. lib. 4. Amongst these you being their Pastor vvalke decked vvith much pretious apparell If I durst speaze it these are rather paâ—â—ors for diuels then for Christs sheepe Your Court vsually receiueth good men but maketh sevv good There the vvicked are not made better but the good farre worse A number of such places I could alledge out of him neither bewailâ—th lâ—ethe mixture of the bad as you say but the perishing of the good and the ruâ—ne of the Church A shamefull contagion spreaâ—â—â—h ouer the body of the whole Church Bernard in Cant. Ser. 33 De conuer Pauli the seruants of Christ serue Antichrist From the sole of the foote to the crowne of the head nothing is sound With these and the like speeches vsed Bernard to bewaile and complaine of the intolerable wickednes of your Church which he would neuer haue done without sufficient reason mouing thereunto Aeneas Syluius ad Casparem Schlik Aeneas Syluius afterwards Pope writeth that charity was waxed cold and faith vtterly gone and what manner of Church shall we iudge this to haue been when shee had lost both faith and charity But it may be you will say that he wrote this of malice vnto the Church and that after hee changing his opinion when of Aeneas he was made Pius for that was euer his vsuall speech Cast
troubled thoughts But holy men diligently prepared themselues and so came to this Sacrament hauing quiet minds free froÌ„ guilt of sinne And in the Primitiue times they who had fallen were not admitted to the Eucharist but after coÌ„fession full satisfaction made for their sins And then a Deacon was wont to crie Holy things are for holy men WHIT. pag. 718. You haue not tasted what true faith is if you thinke all sorrowes doubts are remoued so soone as faith is begotten The Prophet often remembreth his sorrowes Psal 42.5.6 32.4 And this all the faithfull haue experience of and yet are vpheld by their faith They are the best prepared who haue the greatest sorrowes for their sins and in the word and Sacrament seeke a salue for them For wherefore was the supper ordained but to strengthen and confirme our faith Therfore the best prepared haue many temptations and sorrowes in themselues The custome of the Church proueth nothing against this For will you account them wicked and prophane whose consciences are frighted with the sense and bitter sorrowes for their sinnes So shall you wickedly condemne the most holie seruants of God Only they do rightly receiue the Lords Supper who bring sorrowful afflicted coÌ„founded consciences And so it is indeed for they are no right receiuers who trusting to their owne merits come audaciously but they who heing opprested with the greatues of their sinnes Psal 51.19 doe desire to bee eased For they which are whole desire not the Physitian A contrite and broken hart is an acceptable sacrifice to God wherefore they which haue greatest feeling of their sinnes and sorrow for them to them that heauenly food is wont to bee most wholesome Good Lord who would euer thinke it might come to passe that anie Christian should dislike these things But is there any thing else x DVR VVho knoweth not that the Nouatians vvere condemned of the vvhole Church for denying this authoritie to the Priests And that it vvas an old custome of the Church as Tertullian hath it that penitentials vvere sent to none but to the Priests to whom as Ambrole Hierome Chrysostome writ the keyes and power of binding and loosing are committed WHIT. pag. 720. That you speake of the Nouatians and the custome of the Church toucheth not Luther for they admitted neither repentance not confession in the Church did Luther euer any such thing or did he euer reproue the custome of the Church that they who had offended publikely did publikely testiue their repentance It was a priuate auricular confession of all sinnes which hee reproued which is without testimonie either of Scripture of sincere Antiquitie which made Nectarius Bishop of Constantinople put it out of the Church for the offence of a Deacon For the Fathers by which you would establish your keyes we haue against them Augustine in Ioan. tract 124. and Theophil in Matth. 18. You may confesse you sinnes but to any bodie y DVR VVhat is then more manifest then that hee may giue a Sacrament which neuer inteÌ„ded 〈◊〉 VVe beleeue that Priests as Iudges can absolue the guilty from their sins WHIT pag. 722. When as faith dependeth vpon no mans will and faith bringeth remission of sins another mans will caÌ„not hinder but that they who beleeue may haue the pardon of their sins For that to the Centurion Mat. 8.13 is to euâ—ry man As thou beleeuest so bâ—â—t â—â—to thee not as another wil. If absolution were then in the Ministers will it should not be as men beleeue but as their Minister thinketh than vvhich nothing can be more absâ—â—d What skilleth it vvhether the Minister be in â—est or earnest if I beleeue seriously his iest shall not hurt mee And what is more miâ—erable then to baâ—g the dignitie of the Sacrament vpon the thought and intention of the Minister which if it were true of SacrameÌ„ts yet what is that to absolution which neuer was a SacrameÌ„t wheras you say you beleeue that the Priesâ—â— do absolue men as Iudges do I do not find fault with it And such â—uâ—ges are they as Priests vnder the Law were of diseases The chiefe Prâ—â—st iudged of the Leprosie which he neither inflicted nor cured So the Minister doth pronounce and iudge all beleeuers to be absolued and the contrarie vpon the wicked and vnbeleeuers who if he do absolue you but in iest so as you beleeue you are absolued And why not for it is not need full either to number sins by our fingers or to vse a Priest or a Frier such a one as your selfe Iam. 1.16 1. Ioh. 1.9 We may confesse our faults one to another so as Friers may be idle hereafter And whosoeuer beleeueth that his sinnes are forgiuen him him saith it selfe absolues whether he be absolued in iest or in earnest Well make haste To reade prayers by the houre belongeth not to Priests but to lay meÌ„ What your Priests do or what they thinke they ought to do it concernes me not Let them reade let them pray let them say Masse let them drinke let them play and in a word let them be alwayes like themselues It behoueth a Minister of the Gospell not to recite certaine Collects by an houre-glasse and to make his walke in them certaine spaces of houres but to giue daily diligence vnto reading 1. Tim. 4.13 exhortation and doctrine which things your Priests haue euer thought to be farre different from their office But these same prayers by the houre albeit they do not ill agree to your sacrificing priests who vnlesse they should speÌ„d the time on this fashion would neuer goe out of Stewes and Tauernes yet are they vnworthie of a Christian man because of their infinite z DVR Js it superstition to sing Psalmes vnto God to pray for remission of sinnes and other temporall and spirituall graces and to performe other exercises of religion vvho knovveth not that Christians had their night Psalmes that the Hymnes of Ambrose vvere at set times In the Acts vve read that Peter and Iohn vvent into the Temple at the ninth houre of prayer WHIT. pag. 726. These things I reproued not as superstitious and impious but that all the time which should be bestovved in instructing the people should be spent in saying their daily appointed houres specially in that tongue vvhich not the people and often times not the Priest himselfe doth vnderstand No man is ignorant that Christians had their night houres but it vvas because they might not assemble themselues in the day time vvill you keepe this custome and not be accounted superstitious The Hymnes of Ambrose are full of piety and sarre from superstitious chaunting As for the Apostles they vvent not vp to sacrifice nor to keepe Canonicall houres but to instruct the people who came thither to the euening sacrifice in great multitudes superstition Let vs heare the rest Christians are free from the lawes of men That neuer came into Luthers mind to
all the c Hiero. in cat script saincts of heauen that through their pure and vertuous conuersation vpon the earth gaue a rare example vnto all sorts of men Thou shalt finde that they both liued here and died members of our Catholick Church And that we may take a tast of some few by name d In Epist. ad Smyr on our side was Ignatius that so earnestly thirsted after martyrdome who in ecclesiasticall matters aduanced a * And we in those thingâ— which are proper to a Bishop make none equall to a Bishop Bishop euen aboue a King who penned also certaine traditions of the Apostles whereof he himselfe was a witnesse least they should be quite forgotten e Euseb lib. 3. cap. 30. Dam. in vit Telesp To. 1. con c. stat d. 5. On our side was that Anchorete Telesphorus who commanded that the fast of Lent which was before instituted by the Apostles shouldbe kept more strictlie On our side was S. Ireneus f Lib. 3. c. 3. who proued that the Apostolike faith descended vnto vs by the succession and sea of Rome On our side also was that high Bishop g Euseb 5. hist. 24. Victor who by a generall Proclamation * This is false for he could not subdue it kept the whole Countrie of Asia in due obedience which Proclamation though to some it seemed somewhat hard but specially vnto this most blessed man S. Ireneus no man yet attempted to deface as * This is false for many Bishops haue bitterly inueyed against Victor for this cause forraigne authoritie Polycarpus h Euseb 4. hist 14. Suidas was on our side that about the question of the keeping of Easter day went and conferred with the sea of Rome whose reliques after he was burned the faithfull Christians at Smyrna gathered together and gaue due honor vnto their Bishop by obseruing yearely the day of his death as an high and solemne feast On our side were i Euseb 7. Hist 2. S. Cornelius and S. Cyprian those golden paire of Martyrs which were both very worthy Prelates but the former was the greater who when he was Bishop of Rome abolished the Affrican errors The latter also got great commendations through his loyall obedience which he shewed to his superior and dearest friend he had in the world On our side was Sixtus who when he song Masse at the Altar was solemnely serued with seauen men of the Cleargie On our side was S. Laurence this mans Archdeacon whom the aduersaries cancell out of their Calenders To whom k Prud. in Hym. de S. Laur. vi Aug. ser de S. I aur Ambros lib. 1. off cap. 4. lib. 2. off 28. Leo serm in die S. Laur. Prudentius a man that had been Consull in Rome about 1200. yeares ago prayed in this wise O most glorious seruant of Christ what power is giuen thee and what authoritie is graunted vnto thee in heauen the great ioy of the Romanes doe sufficiently shew vpon the obteining of such requests as they make vnto thee Amongst the which number I beseech thee mercifullie giue eare to me thy rude Poet that doth confesse vnto thee my sinfull thoughts also disclose my wicked actions heare benignly I pray thee me thy humble suppliant Prudentius that hath highly offended Christ my Sauiour On our side l Metaph. Ambros ser 90. tom 3. lib. 1. de Virg. Ado. Tae in martyr Euseb 8. Hist 27. were those most blessed virgins S. Cecilia S. Agatha S. Anastasia S. Barbara S. Agnes S. Lucia S. Dorethy and S. Katherine who constantly kept their vowed chastitie against the tyrannie both of men and diuels S. Helen was on our side who was most famous for the finding of the crosse of Christ S. Monocha the mother of S. Augustine was on our side who when she lay on her death-bed most deuoutlie desired to be praid for after her death Ruff. lib. 1. cap. 8. Ex Aug. lib. 9. con cap. 7. vsque ad 1â— Hieroâ— in Epist Paul Hieroâ— in cap. Semp. Athanas Ambros in orat fut de Satyro Ioan. Diacon Seu. Sâ—lp Metaph. Grae. lib. 2. Dial. and to haue the * This was not the sacrifice of the Masse reade the answere sacrifice of the masse offred for her at Christs altar S. Paula was on our side who forsaking her faire pallace situated within the citie of Rome and her goodly farmes abroade in the Countrie went on pilgrimage by long iourneys euen vnto to the caue of Bethelem where Christ lay crying in his cradle there in solitarinesse to spend the residue of her time On our side was S. Paulus S. Hilarion S. Antony who liued in solitarinesse till they were old men On our side was Satyrus that was brother germain vnto S. Ambrose who carrying about him in a stole that dreadfull hoast and being in present danger of shipwrack hoping assuredlie that he would protect him lept into the raging sea and sâ—ome to land On our side were S. Nicholas and S. Martin who were both Bishops much exercised in watchings cloathed altogether in haire-cloth and fed with fasting On our side was S. Benet who was father vnto a great number of Monks Ten yeares were not long ynough for me to recite this infinite number of Saints neither do I heere make mention of them whom before I placed among the Doctors of the Church I do not forget my promise that I would passe ouer things as briefly as I could conuenientlie let him that would know more hereof peruse not only the large histories of auncient writers but also much more rather the graue authors which haue almost euery one of them written speciall bookes of the liues of the Saincts for a remembrance to their posteritie * And you of al those name me one Iesuit then let him tell me what his opinion is of those most auncient Christians Vide. 12. tom Surij and most blessed of whether religion were they of the Catholikes religion or of the Lutherans religion * After this manner Campian vseth to dispute I call to witnes the throne of God and that his tribunall seate before which I shall stand to render an accompt of these my ten reasons and of my said act in making my challenge that either there is no heauen at all which I and my adherents do detest or that it belongeth properlie to such only as are of our religion which thing we for our parts hold for sound doctrine Now on the contrary side if you thinke good let vs looke downe into hell Damnati where lye some burning in euerlasting fire Who the Iewes what Church are they against ours Who else the heathen What Church haue they most cruellie persecuted ours who besides these the Turks What Churches haue the pulled downe ours who yet the hereticks to what Church were they enemies to ours * The Catholike Church of which your Church is no part Forwhat Church I pray you hath
2. cap. 35. whom they vsually called Atheist but an other Aetius the likenes of the names deceiued you To that you obiected concerning Vigilantius and Iouinian an answere is formerly giuen a DVR You speake vvitâ—ilie but you must of necessity do the one WHIT. pag. 884. If they haue defended any thing against the Scriptures they are heretikes but if not they cannot bee condemned by the iudgement of any Church for my part I neither meane to defend them nor can I greatly accuse thâ—m If they were hereticks conuince them of some error they held against the scriptures Hieromes passions can make no man an heretick Now you bring in the swarme of hereticks Macedonians PelagiaÌ„s Nestorians Eutychians the Mâ—â—otholites and Iconomachs These first we hate as hell it selfe those last haue committed nothing deseruing the name of hereticks To set vp and worship Images is hereticall but not to ouerthrow them What you iudge touching Luther and Caluinâ— is nothing materiall whiles they liued they nothing regarded you now they are dead they despise you what will you conclude at length from this hereticall companie Aâ—â— these you say forsooke the gouerment of your Church and were ouerthrowne by them Nay Campian these were your forefathers and you their progenie and successors for your monster of Poperie hath been hatched by the impure commixtion of all heresies But you now appeare out of hell Lands and are come to land and wheresoeuer you cast your eyes or thoughts All is your own as you say all subiect themselues and subscribe to your religion Me thinks I see that brainsick Merchant who standing by the sea and beholding the ships cried out all he saw was his owne otherwise such senselesse dreames could not proceed but from a wit and iudgement exceedingly weakned Sedes Apostolica For say you the Romane succession witnesseth in which Church as Austen speaketh the Primacie of the Apostolike chaire hath alwaies had the preeminence Many causes there were why speciall accompt in times past should be made of the church of Rome especially for that Rome was the seate of the Empire as approued in the Councell held at Constantinople Concil Constantinop 1. cap. 5. b DVR VVhy then may not he that is Bishop of this Church be ouer all other Bishops and so the Prince of Priests the chiefe Priest and supreame head of the rest WHIT. pag. 885. Because authoritie and dominion is not proper to them who are more excelleÌ„t then others which may bee shewed by infinite examples Who can be ignorant that the tribe of Iudah was the chiefe the first and the Prince of the other tribes will it therefore follow that the head of the principall family in this tribe had authoritie ouer all other tribes Aristotle was accounted the prince of Philosophers Homer of Poets Hippocrates of Physitians Apelles of Painters did they therefore exercise authoritie ouer all the rest of the same profession So though for a long time together the church of Rome for many respects was excellent among the rest yet it neuer had domination and rule ouer the rest of the Churches of Christ I graunt therefore thaâ—â—his Church was accompted the supreme chiefe greatest and the principall preferred before other Churches Trow you hence to conclude the Bishop of Rome is the chiefe and principall Bishop or head of the Church Concil Carthag 3. cap. 26. Dist 99 prima sedis Austen himselfe forbid it in the Councell of Carthage viz. that the Bishop of the chiefe Sea should not be called Prince of Priests or any like title Although then the holy Fathers for diuers respects gaue the preheminence to the church of Rome yet â—â—d they neuer acknowledge c DVR This prohibition was giuen by the Fathers because they knew that aâ— the soueraignty of the Apostolike Chaire did euer flourish in the Romane Church so they did not doubt but the manner of the chiefe Priest did appertainâ— onely to the Bishop of Rome WHIT. pag. 885. Nay the prohâ—bition of the Councell did as well concerne the Bishop of Rome whom all acknowledge to be the Bishop of the chiefe seate as the Bishops of other Seas Therefore for the time he obeyed the decree of the Councell and was content with his names and refused to be called the soueraigne chiefe Priest that infinite pâ—â—â—â—â—â—â—ll authority which he now challengeth neither â—â—d other Apostolike Churches whether they were founded by the Apostles themselues or by some of their schollers yeeld any testimonie of truth to the church of Rome Heere you stick in a quagmire and â—â—e faine by intreatie to beg that which by strong reason you should prooue and cannot But you vrge further and recompt the Pastors of seuerall countries to whaâ— end I pray you The remainderâ— say you of the labours of all those that haue published the Gospell in all nations farrs and wide all present vnto vs this same religion which Catholâ—kes at this day professe What could be affirmed more weakely for the Greeians are opposite vnto you which vnto this time haue their succession of Bishops not interrupted And further the spyeâ— which you send in your new found lands haue found in the furthest coasts thereof many monuments of that faith which we mainteine Osâ—rius neither may you preferre vs before them at least afore all you ought to preferre the truth Aristot. as the Philosopher saith But if you thinke your Popes and other glorious titles more auncient then the Gospell what can you alleage why Christ should not denie you to belong to him seeing you value any thing more then him Heere you tell vs of Princes Princes Kings Câ—sars Emperours and make a goodly shew of names as your manner is At length you meÌ„tion our noble Queenâ— Elizabeth and will needs teach her her dutie But she Campian needs no such Masters â—say 48. or instructiors She knoweth her selfe to be the nursing mother of the Church and that by diuine dispensation and accordingly doth she with all watchfulnes and care procure the good thereof and labours by all possible diligence to preuent all dangers intended by you and your adherents You say of Caluine and these Princes 〈◊〉 you haue spoken thâ—◠〈◊〉 heauen can noâ— containe theÌ„ But it passeâ—h your skill to pronounce certainely hereof nay your Pope himselfe cannot with all his might pull Caluiâ—â— out of heauen not any of them whom Christ hath made witnesses of his truth As for you and your fellowes we wish you not the gallowes but saluation I desire to hope the best of you and I doubt not but you might attaine to the knowledge of the truth in controuersie betwixt vs if for the time you could lay aside all preiudicate opinions and consult with the word of God and the holy Fathers of the Church As for the societie of Iesus whereunto you are admitted it braggeth that it is wholie at the Popes dispensation and loues Gregory the 13.