saiththat by Martin the 5. it was ratified But he extenuateth that of Basil and saith that by Nicolas the 5. it was approved in those things which beloÌ„g ad ciÌ„sur as causas boneficiales c Vt. supra Sic Bellar. de Concil lib 〈◊〉 cap 7 Possevinus like a Iesuit who must stick close to the Pope saith that indeed that of Censures of Benefices was allowed by Nicolas the 5. but the rest was al refused in the CouÌ„cel at Laterane by Leo the 10. And there he telleth vs that such part of the CouÌ„cel of CoÌ„staÌ„ce as did set the CouÌ„cel aboue the Pope was caslated cashiered but that which was done against Wiclef and Hus was ratified before by Pope Martin Is not your provorb here true So many meÌ„ so manie minds that faith giveÌ„ to I. Hus may be brokeÌ„ as being to an heretik shal staÌ„d for good doctrin but the allowaÌ„ce of the d Cochâ—… in Hist Hussit l. 7. Eucharist in both kinds made to the Hussits by y e deputies of the couÌ„cel of Basil the yeelding to the other 3. articles is frustrated And it wil go hard with the Vir. Mary also who there was quit of being conc Basil Sess 36. coÌ„ceived in Original sin whervpoÌ„ dependeth the feast of the coÌ„cepâ—… of our Lady as you cal it wherof what the FraÌ„ciscane Friers will thinke I leane to your consideration By this men may see how wise the Pope is who will surely liue without his damme if we will let him alone when albeit all the Prelates of Christendome come togither and determine that which is good for the regiment of the Church yet if it touch the Pope he will stande to nothing Nay if Martin say yea confirme it Leo comming after will say No and vndoe it So that let the Councel pray and talke what they wil of the holy Ghost being among them if the Popes holy spirit do not agree with theirs their holy Ghost is nothing Somewhat it was that Pope f Platin ain Faschal 2 Paschall did put on a girdle whence 7. keyes and 7. seales did hang that he might advertise men that according to the seven fold graces of the holy Spirit he had power to close and seale and open and shut the holie Churches over whom by Gods appointment he was ruler That you must thinke to be all the world and by a consequent the generallest Councell Open your eies Papists and see whither that these doctrines be not the mockery of all religion You were as good take a compendious course and say plainely that the Pope may doe what he list as talke of a Councell and trouble a greate many meÌ„ about nothing then the resolutioÌ„ must be with g Centu. 16 in An. 1518 Silvester Prierias that the Popes authority is farre before the CouÌ„cels yea that the force of the sacred Scripture doth depend vpon the authority of the Pope or with h Ibidem Caietane the Cardinall who in a Conference with Luther at Auspurge did directly preferre the power of the Pope before al Scriptures and Councels which Luther good man would not beleeue I pray you gentle Doctor suffer your selfe to be coniured so farre as on your honesty to tell me whither you or we do attribute most to a Councel when we teach that many comming togither in the feare of God and sincerely vsing the best meanes that they possibly can and beeing directed by Gods spirit word may conclude that which must stand good and you say that be they never so many so learned so holy do they what they wil yet if the Pope like not of it he will not like any thing that shall binde him to any goodnes it is not al worth a straw 10 I cannot here omit that the milke which you gaue in the beginning of this Chapter is nowe cast downe by your owne heele I coÌ„mended you too soone A black More cannot change his skinne and you will to your owne biace Here the Councels were not only allowed and confirmed by one and the selfe same authority and this you meane to be your Popes but they are gathered also The impudencie of this Proposition which in a worde you thinke to steale away with I haue shewed before The Bishoppe of Rome durst neither for his head nor soule haue saide such a word in the time of the Primitiue Church He should haue been most arrogant before God and a rancke traytour to the Emperor his best master if he had assumed that vnto him I helped you even now with a place out of Socrates let mee now quit that with another Thus then he saith i Soc in pro aemio lib. 5. I haue everywhere in my storie made mention of the Emperours becacause since that time that they began to be Christians the businesse of the Church did seeme to depende vpon thâ—…â—…cke yâ—… and the greatest Councels were by their sentence or order called together and yet are so called Alas there was no token of the prety Popes supreame authority in coÌ„vocating such Occumenicall assemblies till almost a thousande yeares after Christ. Afterwarde when the Pope had got the head he began to bee a little bold but his Dictates were only attended in such places of the West as over which he had vsurped a spirituall dominion But the Greeke and Easterne Church tooke no notice of those assemblies more then of factious and partiall Conventicles which is the true cause that at the Councell of Florence which was cunningly got togither by Eugenius the 4. to toppe that of k Coch hist. Huss lib. 9. Basile held at the same time and which was assembled before by his owne authority but afterward thwatted some of his designes the Greekes did take no notice of any of the Synodes at Laterane Lions or Vienna where their ancestours before had not beene but only they tooke knowledge of such as whither the Greekes their predecessours had freely gone And therefore as l Li. 4. Chr. Genebrarde saith they who came to the meeting at FloreÌ„ce count that the eighth Synode which is to be vnderstood if they hold it for a Synode at all And in the m Scss. 5. 6. Councell of Florence it selfe the seconde helde before at Nice was then called by the Greekes the last Generall Councell and speciall exception was taken to that which is commonlye called the eighth Generall CouÌ„cel albeit it was held at CoÌ„staÌ„tinople they saying first that it never was at all received and secondly that afterward it was formerly abrogated For in as much as it had condemned Phoâ—ius Patriarke of Constantinople his successour Iohn called another Synode and antiquated the former Marke here that the Patriarke of the Greeke Church thinketh that he hath power to assemble Councels directly opposite to the proceedings of the Romish Bishop and that he challengeth to himselfe authoritie to dissolue and annullate that which he supposeth the Western Patriarke with
vnfit saying it is wel that it is but one Doctors opiniō since the words of men yea of all the world put togither cannot be ballanced in equall waight with the immediate word of God which is so directly inspired by the holy Ghost A sweet childe the while was our Campian z Ration 4 who would take on him to proue that the rest of the Synods namely that of Trent was of the same authority with those foure first and so consequently all as powerfull as the Gospels By which reconing wee should not only haue a fifth Gospell of Nicodemus or some such counterfeit but eighteene Gospels more besides the foure Evāgelists so our Bibles now will grow so big that one volume wil not hold thē What a wrōg did that prowde and arrogant Iesuite to the Scripture when hee durst write on that fashion we dare not so far dignifie or rather magnifie the best Councels after that in the Apostles time for feare of blasphemy But if we shall compare the better with the worser the weaker with the stronger we shall see that we are not to far to leane on such assemblies least by attributing over much to such confluences we sometimes take error for verity For haue there not bin meetings which haue concluded against the truth yet haue caryed a goodly shew too I wil not insist on Provinciall Councels as that of a Inter opera Cyptiā A frike where Cyprian the rest cōcluded for rebaptising of those which were baptised by heretiks or that of b Soc. 1 21. Tyrus which proceeded against Athanasius being innocēt or that of c Lib 2 7. Antioch as also of d cap. 25. Sirmiū both which decreed for the Arrians against the faith of Consubstantiality in Christ with his Father I will rather stand on those who go for generall as that of Sardis in part reiected by e In Indice conciliorū Possevinus that of Milaine where were 300. Bishops ioyning for Arrianisme that of Selētia being gathered to the same purpose Here may you finde more general Synods making for the Arrians while they were in anye strength then making against them 13 Lay to these the Great Councell of Ariminum vvhere vvere sixe hundred Bishoppes mainetaining and decreeing for the opinion of Arius and the authoritye vvhereof seemed to bee so greate and vvas so farre vrged that Saint Augustine himselfe had beene everborne vvith it had hee not beene forced to flie to the Scriptures which were and are the touch-stone to trye Councels by The place which he hath to that purpose is famous f Aug contra Maxim Arrian Episcop l. 3 But now neither shoulde I produce the Nicene Councell nor thou that of Ariminum as meaning to extoll it Neither am I helde vvith the authoritie of the one nor thou vvith the other VVith authorities of Scriptures vvhich are vvitnesses not proper to either but common to both let matter contend with matter cause vvith cause reason with reason Both of vs doe reade That vvee may be in his true sonne Iesus Christ He is very God life eternal Let both of vs yeeld to waight of so great moment These are the words of the same S. Austē who els-where had said g Epist 118 The authority of Plenary Coūcels is most wholesome in the Church Very whole some while they keepe right with the verity of Christ but whē they fal frō that they are otherwise But S. Austē was never of opiniō to atrribute too much to Coūcels for he was not so simple but that he saw there were or might be many imperfectiōs in thē yea in the best of thē It is a worthy testimony which he gives in this behalf whē he was pressed with the authority of Cypriā the Africane Coūcel h De Bap◅ismo cōtr Donaust lib. 2. 3. The sacred Scripture saith he is not at alto be doubted or desputed of The letters of Bishops writē since the Scripture if there be any errour in thē may be reprehēded by the wiser speech of any one who is more skilful in that matter by the graver authority of other Bishops by the wisedome of the more learned by Councels And who knoweth not that Provincial Councels without any sticking do yeeld to the authority of plenary Councels which are gathered out of the whole Christian world yea that oftentimes the former Plenary Coūcels are amended by the later when by any experiēce of things that is opened which was shut known which did lye hid without any vanity of sacrilegious pride without any puffed necke of arrogācy without any contention of malicious envy with holy humility with Catholike peace with Christian charity And some part of this he cōfirmeth againe afterward Among after-cōmers the later Coūcels are preferred Cap. 9. before the former the whole evermore by very good right is esteemed before the parts Wel thē by Austens sentēce evē General coūcels may be amēded altered therfore they may erre or come to short Which wil the better appeere if we remēber that sometimes one Councel is directly contrary to another as that of Ariminum to the former of Nice that of Franckforde touching Images to the later at Nice those of Constance Basile in the subiecting of the Pope to the Councel to those of Florence and Trent the 2. at Ephesus approving Eutyches to that of Chalcedō which cōdēned him Yea the k Socrat. 2. 16. Coūcel of Sardis against it self whē the Easterne Bishops were for Arrianisme the Westerne against it whervpō they devided thēselves in place as wel as in opiniō It were thē a hard matter in an vnavoidable cōtrariety or rather cōtradictiō to have both sorts of Coūcels allowed the affirmer the denier therfore simply absolutly of thēselues they are not to be held for sufficient cōfirmers of that which we must beleeve It may bee added as another singular exception against Coūcels that most of thē are hādled with such irregularities that it is not only probable that they may swarve but likely that they wil since even the best men to the best Coūcels do come so laden with passions affections humours partialities that they wil not or cannot see the truth One of the most moderate of all the Popish Councels was that of Basile yet what turbulētnes doth l De Concil Basilcens Aeneas Sylvius witnes there to haue bin He therfore in that argumēt is rather to be reade thē that which cōmōly goeth for the Coūcel of Basile as m In Indice falcic rerum expet fugiend Orthuinus Gratius wel observeth for in Aeneas who was present at that meeting and saw and recorded all the manner of it a man may find the order or disorder of it so described that he may imagine himselfe to behold the Fathers there assembled sitting in their Pōtificalibus If we would haue an exāple of this in an olde
testimony and he saith that s Rom. 15. 19 from Hierusalem rounde about vnto Illyricum he caused the Gospell of Christ to abound And to take away all pretence of obiection he addeth that he preached the Gospell where s vers 20. Christ was not named least hee shoulde haue built on another mans foundation If these things be so plaine as no Christian can doubt of them blush and blush againe at such desperate audaciousnesse as maketh no conscience egregiously to faine T. HILL TRue it is that Heretikes have corrupted such as were Catholikes before but that they ever converted any Heathen Nation to Christianity can never bee shewed I know very well that Iohn Calvine to get glorie sent certaine of his Ministers into nevve-founde landes but I never coulde heare that any of them converted so much as one sily vvoman to their Gospell in those partes The trueth is their agreement in doctrine vvas so greate that one destroying anothers buildings they became laughing flockes to the Heathens and so vvere glad to depart with shame G. ABBOT 3 THAT Heretikes haue corrupted such as were weaklings or discontented persons is true and may well bee exemplified in your broode perverting diverse credulous and indiscreete folkes from their obedience to God and their Princes but they are not sounde Catholikes or vvell setled and grounded in the faith who will listen to you or any seducer And if there bee any heathen nation vvhich hath hearde of the name Christ by you and your polluted Christianity it is most certaine that it hath bin by Heretikes the servauntes and attendantes of the whore of Babylon beeing a hundred waies infected with heresie and the vvhole body of Popery where it differeth from vs being nothing else but a masse of abhominable heresie But vvhere-as you say that Calvine sent some of his Ministers into the nevve-founde lande if you vnderstoode your selfe in this which like a Parret you speake from other men and know not what it meaneth the t Io. Leriuâ—… in navigat in Brasil ca. 1 2 6. viage into Brasile in the yeare one thousand fiue hundred fifty fiue was the original worke of Villagagno a Knight of Malta who pretending himselfe to be religious seeing the persecution which at that time was vsed in France against Gods children vnder K. Henry the second gaue out in words that hee would search out a place in the newe-found VVesterne vvorld whither persecuted Christians might flie out of Fraunce Spaine and other countries And for this purpose hee had ayde of Chaâ—…llion that worthy Admirall of Fraunce who was afterward slâ—…ine at the u An. 1572. Massacre in Paris And whereas by his letter Uillagagno had made request to the Church of Geneva to send with him or vnto him diverse Ministers of the Gospell they at his entreary condescended therevnto and some went who as especially they desired to prepare a place for their afflicted country-men whereof at that time many were burnt for Religion so their next intendment was to vse their best meanes to convert the Barbarians vnto the faith of CHRIST And when diverse of the Ministerie leaving their countrie kinred and that estate which they had in Fraunce were come thither with those resolutions they never dissented in the least pointe of theâ—… doctrine But Uillagagno like a notable Hypocrite togither with a Popish Priest of his one Cointas who had before abiured Popery there as also the Generall voluntarilie had done relapsed to their vomite evill entreated their Ministers by all meanes that they could devise set the companie vpon a mutinie and forced such as lost not their lives there to returne to their country when they had scant spente one yeare in those partes and that full of vexation by reason of their Conductours perfidious falshood This was the reason wherefore that viage sorted to small purpose and not the discorde of the Ministers And this wicked practise did arise from the Cardinall of Lorraine who either in secret before the departure of Uillagagno or afterward by letters drewe him to Apostate from his faith â—…s Lerius who was there in presence and reporteth the specials of all that viage and their Generals vsage there doth amply remember And that this was the true cause of their returne wee neede not appeale to any of our men fince Costerus the Iesuite will tell it thus u The Calvinistes not many yeares agone Controver cap 2. did attempt to bring in their errours to the people of India and Peru but by the â—…ide of CHRIST and by the industrie of the Catholikes they were excluded Indeede the Cardinall of Lorraine be stirred himselfe in that businesse being so bitter an enimy to the Gospell of CHRIST that hee could not endure that the Frenchmen should have it at home or abroade least belike multitudes of them should have left their countrie and built Colonies elsewhere So he cared not what losse or dishonour the kingdome of Fraunce had so there might be no Sanctuary or refuge for those whome hee reputed heretikes dealing as honestly and faithfully therein as Steven Gardiner while hee lived and afterwardes other of the Cleargie did with Caleis in Queene Maries time which towne they vnderstanding to be the receptacle of many good Christians fled out of England for their conscience were so averse from regarding repayring and supplying it that the French discrying the weakenesse thereof by attempting it both sodeinely and subtilely afterward pursuing their enterprise fearcely did get it from the English Such was the blessed minde of that Machiavellian Cardinall whome GOD x Commentar Relig. Reip. in Gal. Lib. 13. remembred at the last suffering him by a colde which he had taken by going barefoote and whipping himselfe for his lascivious sinnes to grow first into a fever and then into a madnesse which sent him raving and foolishly speaking to receive his iudgement The Queene mother as ashamed that Ahitophel shoulde proove Nabal caused it to bee reported about the Courte that the man went to GOD in most sweete meditations but the other was so evident that every bodye laughed at the simplicitie of their devise who would have that covered which the Lorde had shewed of purpose that every ones y 1. Sam 3. 11. eares who heard of it might tingle T. HILL BVT who knoweth not that the Catholikes as they have converted all to Christianity that ever were Christians so in this age they have brought infinite numbers to the Christian faith in the East VVest Indies by the meanes and labours of the most happy and holy fathers of the holie Order of S t. Frauncis of S. Dominicke and of the blessed Society of Iesus which blessed Religious men in our owne Country there of England onely in regard of their sacred function are executed as Traitors And have not these I pray you their authority from Rome G. ABBOT 4 THE vanitie and vnwisenesse of this asseveration I haue plentifully shewed before
crosse the Adriatike sea step into Grecia or Morea why traveile you not farther to Constantinople Tripoly or Aleppo to winne men from Mahomet which is so much the easier because all these Turkes Saracens admit of some Positions beloÌ„ging to the ChristiaÌ„ faith but the Indians accept of none Truth it is that vnto these places other nations of Christendome for trafficke do resort and therefore if you should report any vntruth coÌ„cerning these you would quickly be disproved But far traveilers may say more then ordinary men and for that cause you tell vs a tale of the Indies and some of your men say that there they cast out Devils also They do wel to lay it in places so distantâ—… for although they egregiously faine yet we shal hardly take them tripping it is no ready worke to convince them But wee imagine that your attemptes for conversion may have the same successe in the East and VVest Indies as the offer of your u Maff Hist. Lib. 1. Portingale Priestes and Friers had in Congo where adventuring vpon verie small acquaintance to baptize the king and the inhabitantes the most part as your Historiographer saith but it is to be feared that all quickly renounced Christianity returned to their heathenish wallowing in the mire They disliked not the first principles of the faith neither the Ceremonies therein but when they were called vpon to leave their grosse vices as adultery and witchcrafte and seeking to Devils to remitte iniuries to restore thinges vniustly taken each from other they would not endure these exhortations but like reneging Apostatas they became as before And of likely-hood so it fell out frequently with the Spanyards in America where they x Petr. Martyr Decad. 3. 10. were exceeding nimble in administring baptisme to those who knewe very little Had it not beene fit that before the Sacrament had beene imparted the Infidels should out of Gods booke largely haue heard of many thinges which course Iohn the Baptist did take preaching repentaunce y Math. 3. 2 and that woulde well have tryed them before hande and so Gods name might not haue beene dishonoured nor Baptisme abused nor the people made the worse nor the Priest never the better Doth not the true Church of Christ gaine much by such titulary bargaines and is not Gods kingdome much increased through it And yet doubtlesse such good matches your Friers also make in the Indies but especially in those of the East where the inhabitants have more witte and your messengers have lesser power And if it bee so and no otherwise yet with vs heere in Europe all these must goe for good Christians and if there bee a score of such Nuâ—…s Christians wee shall heare of fiue hundred So much may a talâ—… growe in coâ—… so 〈◊〉 And the reporters speake for their owne reputation and therefore without questioning you must beleeue them 6 But I cannot chuse but heere smile at the vertuous titles vvhich you bestovve vppon the Iesuites vvhen you call them the blessed Societie of Iesâ—… and thâ—… blessed religious men Hovve gladlye vvoulde you clavve them vvho perhaps lately at z Apolog. of the Archpriestâ—…c a. 5. Rome did clapper-clavve you And albeit you be now got to bee a Doctour of Divinitye yet since it vvas certainelye against their a Answere to the Manifestat c. 1 vvilles you are vvith them but in nature of a Probationer and an eye is câ—…rryed over you so that if once againe you exorbitate from the rule of your superiours haue at you for an olde grudge Since your comming into Englande to the ende that you maye deserue better of your good Lordes the Iesuites you haue set out this present Pamphlet yet the colde commendation vvhich vvas vpon you continueth still leaving an imputation of vveake iudgemente in you by your credulitye and of heate and rashnesse in your apprehensions and contentions Yet novve standing vpon your triall there is some hope that the tongue which formerlye you exercised vpon these iollye Iesuites in the Colledge at Rome shall bee turned against your King and Countrey that in time you also may bee if not a Iesuite yet one of those blessed men vvho having their authoritye from Rome and not from heaven from Antichrist and not from God maye bee entertained as a Tâ—…ytour You beginne pretty vvell and if you holde on but a vvhile and increase as you desire you may deserue such a prefermente The Iesuites as you tell vs haue their authoritie from Rome not from Iesus and vvhat a forge of mischiefe that Rome hath beene against Englande he is blind who doeth not see b Sand. de Schismat Thence came the sentence against King Henry the eight Thence was continuall hatred derived against our late Soveraigne from the day of her birth vntill her dissolution from this mortalitie Thence came the excommunication by Pius the fift the declaration of the same by Sixtus the fift the ratification of it by Clement the eight if the Spanish Generall in c An. 1601 Ireland did vvitnesse a truth Hence came the Conspiracy of one Noble man nowe acknowledged by d Catena in vita pij 5. him who vvrote the life of Pope Pius the fift the insurrection of other Nobles the attempts on Ireland in the Lord Grayes time the incouraging and ayding of the vincible fleete in the yeere 1588. the late tumults in Ireland besides such infinite proiects by Ballarde Parrhy Lopez Squire and such infamous varlets to destroy her vvho vvas the most famous and renoumed Prince of Christendome These thinges vvere sufficient to cause the honourable Councel and chiefe Magistrats not to sleepe but as with eies opened towarde you And if vvisedome vvill say e Virgil. Aen. 2. ab vno disce omnes or ex vnguibus leonem pretende you as long as you wil that the Iesuits are heere executed for their sacred Function vvee haue reason not to doubt but somevvhat more there is in it He who wrote the Iesuites Catechisme in French as he hath many memorable matters touching the sweete and sacred vices of these vnblessed and irreligious Fathers so hee hath some thing touching Englande as that f Lib. 3. 3. Parrhyes attempt in the yeere 1584 And g Cap. 4. Squires in the yeere 1597 was plotted incouraged and abetted by the Iesuites as hee sheweth by the whole processe of it These devises can bee the execution of no function which is holy vnlesse you will take it to bee holy after the Devils fashion And may it not vvell bee supposed that they vvho vvere so vvickedly affected tovvarde our last Soveraigne vvill carrye the same minde tovvarde our present King the mirrour of all Princely vertues vnlesse the everlasting blessing of God and prudent fore-fight otherwise do restraine them VVhat loue this Iesuiticall crewe doeth beare to his Highnesse let that one thing in steede of all testifie that they combined abroad and to their best plotted at home to
many though not vniversall of all And whē he saith in many lands it is received of the greatest part of the inhabitāts he meaneth not that the naturals do accept of it but the Spanyards Portingals have killed the greatest part of them and now they themselves do make the maior part This advantage you have for your words D. Hill but yet notwithstanding all your fraud and facing we conclude that your Poperie is not predominant as you make it for put it altogither if I should say nothing of that which we teach but leave it wholy to God and his good blessing Gentilisme is yet by many degrees more then all the Papisme in the world and Mahometisme in Barbary in Turky in Persia and in the dominions of all those who hold for that false Prophet doth exceede it And yet the great propagatiō of Ethnicisme or Saracenisme doth not make them to bee in the right neither doth the same evince in behalfe of your Romane fancies but that only must go for truth which hath warrant out of the Scriptures T. HILL AND vvorthy it is to bee noted that in no land or countrey vnder heaven ever was or is any persecution of any moment against Papists as you terme them or against the Priestes of that Religion in regard that they be Papists or Priests made by authority from the Sea of Rome but onely in England And in very deede the vvhole vvorld doth wonder that little England dare and is not ashamed to doe that which never vvas seene in the vvorld before for let a Seminary Priest as they call him keepe him out of England and he is safe inough in any region vnder heaven This I say by the way for that it grieveth mee at the very hart to beare that my deare countrey doth persecute that religion which all the vvorld hath ioyfully embraced or at the least doth vvillingly tollerate as though shee were wiser then all the world beside is or ever hath beene or then al her Elders Or as though English Protestants knew and saw more then all the vvhole learned men of Christendome have done for so manie ages together G. ABBOT 17 IT should seeme that by this time in the shewing of your mē you have spēt al your powder for frō hēce to the end of this presēt Reasō you talke like a good fellow in more familiar sort leaning on the nose of your peece somewhat angry but will not fight Howe your Pseudo-Catholikes in England live afflicted and persecuted not onely our bookes h Execution of Iustice. A Letter to Mendoza declaring a truth but the matter it selfe sensiblie doth speake They lye well and they farewel and many of them do purchase and encrease their lively-hood yea some by your leave finde meanes to extraordinary lasciviousnes The bigger sort of them are by the monethly mulct vpon them so punished that besides that they have for much idle expence they can by bribes keepe spies about great personages they can give large giftes to winne their private purposes they cā haue their cursetors al the Realme over to give and take intelligence they can releive Prisoners they can maintaine diverse Iesuites like such gallants and swaggerers as requireth for each some hundred pounds by the yeare And yet in searches sometimes more ready mony and good golde is founde in their custody then ordinary men of their quality can be maisters of To these thinges they attaine by keeping no house or very little vnder a shew that for their conscience they pay all away I thinke that you your selfe wil confesse that in Queene Maries daies men of our Religion could not live so quietly although they had nothing to obiect against them but that they beleeved not the article of Transubstantiation Now for Priests that they have bin more looked vnto the reasō is sppatant The examples of i 1. Reg. 18. 40. Elias ill intreating Baals Priests of k 2. Reg. 23. 20. Iosias so serving other of like disposition as also of l Cap. 10. 25 Iehu proceeding in the same course shewe that wolves and destroying foxes if they will not keepe from the flocke must be woorried that is must be cut off by the sword of the magistrate Otherwise shall the perishing soules of the flocke bee required at the civill shepe-heards hande as well as they are exacted of the spirituall pastour for negligence But howe rough the state generally hath bin to such may be coniectured by their hasting hither fiftye in a m D. Elyes notes on the Apology fol. 211. yeare out of Rhemes alone Also by the sending away of Harte Pilcher and many other where of some were already condēned other by law were to suffer yet their lives were granted vnto the they only were banished their coūtry frō whēce they had volūtarily exiled thēselues for divers years before thirdly by the keeping of so many of thē at Wishbich Framingl◅ā some for 10. years some for 20 wher al was so to their wil that they had leysure to fall out who shold be n Relation of stirres at Wisbich greatest amōg thē sit highest at table yea to o Apolog cap. 6. feast to bowze to game to fight yea as since it is expressed in plainer wordes to fall top dicing drunkennes yea and whoredome fit exercises for men who would be taken to be designed martyrs And if some few of them have suffered let all sober men iudge whither the state had not cause to proceede so with them whose minds were discovered so plainly beyond the seas The excōmunication of Pius the 5. was procured at Rome by the instigation of some of our own countri-men thervpō a rebelliō was raised q Sander lib. 7. de visib Monar Concertat li◅cle Cathol in Angl Part 1. Felton is cōmended for fastēing vp the Bul at the Bishop of Londons gate And it is held as his praise that hee called the Queene no otherwise but by the name of the pretended Queene Sanders also ordinarily vseth that phrase against her And it is held as a glory in Doctor Story that writing to his wife he bestowed no other title on her Such as suffered for the rebellion in the Noth are tearmed r Ibidem Martyrs so is s Brist Motiv 1◅ Felton also These matters are compiled togither in the booke called s Edit Anguste ◅reviror 1588. Concertatio Ecclesiae Catholica in Anglia out of which I will gather two or three flowers more It is saide as a praise of Everard Hanse that being asked of the Bull of Pope Pius he answered I hope hee did not erre in his sentence Hee saide I hope because that declaration was not doctrinal and therefore there might be an errour Speaking of Iames Laborne executed at Lancaster it is related as a Catholike acte in him that t E. Sander de Schism Lib 3. he tooke two exceptions why Lady Elizabeth was not Queene one by
you would haue laid freely at them Dare you strangers and captiues and boyes and vpstart companions set your selfe against a million of wise men Princes and Counselours They should haue had your voice to haue gone to the fiery Furnace Doe you not pity your selfe when you reason in this fashion Among them that be wise pendenda sunt suffragiapetius quà m numeraÌ„da voices are to be weighed rather then to be numbred I can say no more vnto you but that when this is your best Divinity Lorde haue mercy vpon you Saint Austen would haue tolde you for o Epist. 19. all these and aboue all these we haue the Apostle Paule T. HILL NEither may the Protestants now at length glory in their great number as some of them haue done for that their Religion is there in England and in Scotland and some thereof in â—…aland and in the Lowe Countries and in some partes of Germany and a few of them in Fraunce Apol. Eccl. Anglic. for they never yet passed into Asia nor into Africa nor into Greece nor into many places of Europe much lesse into the Indies But indeede if you rightly scanne their doctrine you shall finde that your Religion ProtestaÌ„tine of England is no where in the world else and that English service contained in your booke of Common praier is vnknowne and condemned of all other Nations and people vnder the cope of Heaven So that in very deed the doctrine of your Protestantes is taught or received no vvhere but in England and the Puritant Doctrine of Scotlande the contrariety therof duely considered is no where but in Scotlande the Lutherane Doctrine taught in Denmarke is no where but in Denmarke and in a few places of Germany the Libertine doctrine taught in the Low Countries is no â—…here but in the Low Countries and the like may be said of other sectes G. ABBOT 26 YOV are mis enformed that the Protestants doe glorie in their great number they know that truth is truth be iâ—… in more or few As for M. Iewell whose Apologie you quote in your margent hee hath no such matter Onely where as it is obiected that our Religion overturneth kingdoms and governmentes hee answereth there vnto that there p Apol. Eccl. Anglican doe remaiue in their place and ancient dignitie the Kings of England Denmarke Sweden the Dukes of Saâ—…cony the Cunties Palatine c. This is to answere to an obiection by giving many instances to the contrary and not to glory of any multitude And if any other of our Church do note in breefe that the Gospell hath taken roote in some large nations that is to stop the mouth of the clamorous adversary and to satisfie the weake as also not least of all to praise God who so spreadeth the beames of his compassion but it is not to boast vainely as you ignorantly imagine Yet who doubteth but a good Christian may ioy in his hart exceedingly and thankfully expresse it in his tongue that many who sate in darkenesse may now behold the light and the sheepefold of Christ is more and more filled But if we would be too forward you will plucke vs backe againe Although it be say you in some places of Europe yet in some other it is not As who should say your Popery is generall in all Where I pray you in Greece is your Papistry It is not in Asia and Africa and much lesse in the Indies The East Indies are part of Asia if you could think vpon it By what means your Idolatry came into those Countries I haue shewed before and how plentifully there it is If we would talke idly as you for the most part doe we might say that in every place where the Marchants of Holland trade and haue people residing our religion is accepted But since the English Merchants haue companies houses in Russia in Constantinople in Aleppo in Alexandria sometimes in Barbary in Zacynthus in Venice and Legorne we might say after the fashion of your boasting that our religion is in those parts But we desire to make no more of things then indeede they are Yet we tell you for those remote provinces that as now one hundred and twenty yeeres agone they knewe not one whit of your faith so it may please God before one hundred and twenty yeeres more bee passed if it so seeme good to his most sacred wisedome to plant the truth which we reach in the East Westerne world especially if a passage by the North ende of America or that by Asia beyond Ob may bee opened vvherein our q M. Hacluiâ—… vnges Nation hath much adventured and speng good summes of treasure vvhich also the Hollanders haue done But the issue of this whole matter must bee leste to the divine providence which is to bee magnified therefore if hee adde this blessing to his Church And if he deny it either there or in any other place we must not be caried too farre with griefe or pitty since it doth not please him who is the father of mercie to condescend vnto it Nowe vvhereas you avouch that our doctrine is onelye in England I knovve not vvhither I shoulde put that in your ignoraunces or rather in your malicious cavils Truth it is our common prayer booke is vsed onelye by those who are of Englishe allegeaunce but is there anie pointe of doctrine in it vvherevnto other Churches reformed in Europe doe not condescend The Catechisme of the Councell of Trent doth differ in words from the Catechisme of Canisius and both of them from that of M. Vaux yet you would thinke it a wronge if anye man should tell you that they disagree in pointes of doctrine So the service of the reformed Congregations in Europe as in England Scotland Fraunce Switzerland in the dominion of the Palsgraue in the Regiments and free cities of Germany which are of the Pallsgraues confession as also in a good parte of the low Countries is the same in all pointes of moment not differing one intâ—… their Professions are the same There is no question among these in anie one pointe of religion The Ecclesiasticall policy being different as in some places by Bishops in some other wâ—…thout them doth not alter ought of faith The Apostles in that they were Apostles had a kinde of governement vvhich the Church had not afterward in the very same particular In the auncient Church some cities and Countreyes vvere immediately ruled by a Patriarke Grande Metropolitane some other by an inferiour Bishoppe vvho was subiected to the greater yet they all might agree in the faith The cheefe at Rome immediately is the Pope at Millaine for spirituall thinges the Arch-bishoppe in some places bee but Suffragaines in some other Iurisdictions a Deane or Priour by Privilege hath almost Papall auctoritie vvhich also in times past vvas in the Chauncellours or Vice-chauncellours of our English Vniversities some fewe thinges beeing excepted and reserved Yet will you say that these doe differ in
fight Then if you had your will touching the authority of these controversed books you could not make one quarter of the gaine by them as you suppose but since they are not of the right stampe we may not allow theÌ„ to you Be the matter in theÌ„ for vs or agaiÌ„st vs we may not authorize those for Authentike Scripture which God hath not so authorized In the 2. of the Machabees there is a place against Limbus PatruÌ„ where one of the seven brethren saith p Cap 7 36 My brethren that haue suffered a little paine are now vnder the divine covenant of everlasting life that is to say at that very time inioying it and in possession of it for if it be vnderstood but of the way thither the mother and brother yet remaining aliue were also vnder that covenant of assured hope but we account not of this testimony neither do wee vrge it because the booke whence it is taken is Apocryphal T. HILL FOr Heretikes ever framed the Bible to their opinions changing wresting paring and somtimes flatly reiecting al which made over-plainly against such Doctrine as they devised and so doe most impudently the Protestants now Wheras the Catholikes ever squared their Doctrine by the line and the levell of the Word of her Spouse and therefore never had cause to reiect the least iote of the holy Bible and at one worde the Catholikes followe the Bible but the Protestantes force the Bible to followe them G. ABBOT 5 WHat heretiks do to the Bible or how they intreat it we respect not neither doth it make ought against vs til you haue first proved vs to be heretiks Nay look you well to it whither you do not seclude vs from being heretiks since we do not change wrest pare the Bible We allow al Scripture to be Scripture we wreÌ„ch nothing we alter nothing but avow that our collections and interpretations are consonant to other places of Gods sacred word and in all points material are to be warranted out of some or many of the ancient fathers of the Primitiue Church which when any of you shall iumpe vpon we never refuse to put in trial with you Now that you Pseudo-Catholiks do that indeed wherwith you wrongfully charge vs how can you deny when you admit for q CoÌ„c Triden Sess 4â— authenticall no copy nor translation of the Scripture but the vulgar Latin which hath diverse flawes and gaps in it much being missing which is in the Originall Hebrew Greek When almost in al your r Vaux Catechi Horae beatissim Virginis Catechismes other books you leaue out the second CoÌ„mandement touching Images as too plainly coÌ„vincing your idolatrous carved painted stuffe in Churches So wheÌ„ in the Eucharist you take the Cup froÌ„ the s CoÌ„c Constat Sess 13 people coÌ„trary to Christs institution the relation of the forme of that Sacrament by S. Paule expouÌ„ding s Mat 26. 27 Drinke you all of this to be meant of the Clergy only how do you wrest and pare As when you say that your Masse is a dayly reall sacrifice wheras the t Heb 7 27 cap 10 18 Author to the Hebrews so copiously disputeth that there is no more sacrifice for fin Briefly you do little better then take away all the Bookes of the Bible when for so many yeares togither you willingly suffred not the laity to looke into them And how do you pervert the Scripture to confirme that abuse as when u In Apolog. Staphilus directly applyeth to that purpose the text u Mat 7 6 Giue not that which is holy vnto dogs so accounting the laity to be no better then dogges and swine Yea your great Rabbins Peter x Lib 3 Distinct 25 Lombard the Master of the Sentences Thomas of y Aquin 2. Aquine can finde so much in that place of Iob z 〈◊〉 art 6. The Oxen were plovving and the Asses were feeding in their places taking the oxen plovving to signifie the Priests reading the Scripture the Asses feeding Iob 1. 14. to be the people not troubling their heads with such matters but contenting themselues to beleeue in grosse as the Church and Cleargy do beleeue Are not these sweet men do they not froÌ„ dogs swine Oxen Asses proue their matters handsomely Thus you square your doctrine by the level of the Babilonish harlot no otherwise folowing the Bible verily as many in LoÌ„don do follow the Law when they go to Westminster after the Iudges who know much law but their followers study vnderstand little of it So you sometimes let the Bible stand in your Libraries or studies before you but you look little in it take very small acquaintance of it when any thing commeth to bee questioned you had leifer be tryed by any thing then that and for traditions you wil striue as for your soule knowing they must do the deed in vpholding your Popery or els al wil to the grouÌ„d for in the Scripture it hath no footing But we contrarywise doe teach our people to cary with them Gods booke to read it and meditate on it to try our teachiÌ„gs therby not to force the exposition thereof to their own humour but to the purpose of the holy Ghost And so I leaue you and this your slaunder 6 Here to proceed a litle farther in the matter of this Motiue we are charged as the Reader doth see to offer iniury to the scriptures in denying those to be Canonicall whoÌ„ the Romanists do grace with that name But what is our fault Is it that we do not allow all that to bee of vndoubted authority which is within the coÌ„mon volumes of the Bible Yea that is it as M. Bristow his fellows belike wold say We answer that if this be it the Church of Rome it selfe is gilty of that crime For are there not 2. books which are coÌ„monly called the 3. 4. of Esdras which theÌ„selues evermore coÌ„prise within their Bibles yet repute not Canonical No better triall of this then by the a Session 4â—… Councell of Trent which reckoning vp the sacred Volumes doeth with those vvhich are not controversed yea with those which are past controversie ioyne Tobias â—…dith Wisdome Ecclesiasticus and the two books of the Machabees but of these of Esdras not a word Heere then by the iudgement of that renoumed Synode which curleth as many as ioine not with it some tractes in the Bible are now as good as leaped out of the Bible This fact of theirs wil warraÌ„t our proceedings since by the same reason wherefore they seclude some may more bee shut out if they do deserue it Gentle Genebrard saw this wel and therfore he was desirous although it were but by the head shoulders to haue pulled in these two bookes againe b Lib. 2 Chron An. 3638. postea He therefore more then once is vehement for them would make
not expressely tell or whether they were there but to assist dispute search informe or to ease the Prelates And yet the manner of his particular enumeration doth seeme to give them consent there vvhich notvvithstanding cannot bee gathered concerning the g In fiâ—…e Conâ—…il â—…ridentin Councell of Trenâ—… vvhere albeit the Divines and Canonists which were there of any reckoning be remembred yet the Bishops as having voice alone are at last nuÌ„bred by themselues In the first Nicene Councel it seemeth by h Soz l 1. 19 Sozomen that CoÌ„stantine the Emperoure had a suffrage But it may be doubted whither Athanasius had any or none being then no Bishop yet a right worthy man on whom the burthen of disputing with the Arrians there didly as much as vpon any one man whatsoever It were good therefore that it were agreed vpon betweene you Papists who be the proper and peculiar persons who haue consent of iudgment and deciding in Councels before that you build too much vpon such Convocations i In contro Costerus saw that there was no small scruple in this and other circumstances beloÌ„ging to Councels therefore he would not meddle at all with this Argument 2. Bellarmines opinion is that ordinarily only Bishops 1. Bellar. de 〈◊〉 c 15 haue a right of deciding determining voices extraordinarily by priviledge or custome Cardinals Abbots Generals of orders albeit they be not Bishops may also haue voices but this saith he was only in the Councels of Florence Lateran and Trent other Priests or Cleargy men may helpe by disputing to finde out trueth but haue no suffrage And therefore hee condemneth the Councell of Basill where such were admitted to a deciding voice Princes are called to defende the Councell and to take notice what is decreed that they aftervvarde may castigate such as stande against it Other lay men may be present to performe some necessarie services to such Assemblies Now you are as it seemeth for the extraordinary 2 For the second point if the supremacy of your Pope must stande vpright it vvill prooue to be his alone to call and assemble Councels For giue it to Princes and then they shall bee supreme governors in causes Ecclesiasticall vvhich you will not admit albeit it be an evident truth permit it to the Cardinals then you set the meÌ„bers aboue the head the coch before the horses Your Popes in these later ages haue take on theÌ„ to coÌ„vocate al Synods wil not indure that any man should meddle vvith that matter which they desire to keepe as charily as the apple of their eie k Sleid. l. â—â— Against Pope Iulius the 2. there were 9. Cardinals who combined themselues going to Mâ—…laine decreed that a CouÌ„cell should be held at Pisa to reforme Iulius but the Pope protested against it and said that it belonged to him alone to call such assemblies and there vpon as l Lib 9 Guicciardine saith the Divines and Canonists were in iudgement divided And yet vvee know that all the olde Councels were congregated only by the order and commandement of the Emperors So was the first Nicene Councell gathered by Constantine the Gâ—…eat as m De vita CoÌ„stâ—…l â—…3 61 Eulebius who lived in his age witnesseth and after him n Hist Eccâ—…l 1 9 Soc 16. Theodoret. The Synode at Constantinople is expresly o Socr. 5 8â—… said to be called by Theodosius And the great Councel as Chalcedon was congregated by the commandement of Valentinian and Martian the â—…mperors as appeareth in the preface to the same Leo the Pope was one who vpon an imagination that he sate in a seat Apostolicall tooke somewhat more stomake to him then any of his predecessours and also more then any of his successours til after the time of Gregory the Great yet there is an p Episto ad Theodos. Epistle of his extant which he wrote to Theodosius wherein he maketh request that his Highnesse would giue him leaue to assemble a Synode in Italy This is so plaine in Histories that the French Chronicler Du q Lib. 5 Haillan in the life of Ludovicus Pius vseth this speech By so many examples cited by me it doth appeare that Charles the Greate and Ludovicus Pius did gather Councels that so they â—…ight do without the authority and permission of Popes and that they were the supreme iudges of Ecclesiasticall matters in their kingdomes and that they coulde as well dispose and order things spirituall as teÌ„porall I would our English Papists would marke this who make such scruple of the oth of Supremacy Nay Chatles the 5. a late Emperour and one who much more then mough was devoted to the Romane Bishops had learned so farre to walke in the waies of his noble Progenitours and Predecessours that without the Popes privity or consent he gathered assemblies in matters of religioÌ„ which as r In Actis Lu thers Ann 1544 Cochleus reporteth Pope Paulâ—…s the 3. tooke ill and challendged him for it that in his Rescripts making mention of celebrating a meeting about businesses in religion â—…e saith nothing of the Pope The Romane Bishop would haue made the world beleeue that therein was some wrong done vnto him but Charles knew well inough what he himselfe had to do Thus it is not yet agreed among our Romanists whose is the primary authority to commaunde convent and congregate Councels and therefore you in your very extraordinary wisedome and modesty declining this doubt tell vs onely that these Councels must be confirmed by the See Apostolike He would haue a Negatiue voice to repell them when they haue decreed done what they meant to do Now these two observations being made we trace your other steps 3 Your words are liable to many exceptions For first when heresies sprung vp there were not evermore Councels gathered as is evident by that time which was before the Nicene Councel held vnder Constantine and yet betweene the daies of the Apostles and that Emperour there were many heresies stirring as may be seene by s In haeres Epiphanius and S. s De heresib ad Quodvult Deum Austen But such flâ—…wes as these be with you are nothing Secondly it would be expressed what you meane by the Church of God for sometimes heretiks did make such Convocations and representing then the visible Church did beare much away Such were the Councels at t Theo 217 Sardiâ—… at u Sâ—…c 1. 21â—… Tyrus at u Lib 2. 7 Antioch at x 〈◊〉 caâ—… 25 Sirmium at y Lib 4 11. Ariminum I mean those meetings which were made by for the Arrians Thirdly in all such assemblies trueth was not approved and heresie condemned for in these which I haue named it was otherwise and as the z Mat. 26 3 Councell of Annas and Caiphas with the other Priestes was not for Christ but against Christ so the meeting of the Arrians in those places