as may sometime deceive a man and therefore though the exposition be true yet how can I be as sure that it is true as I am that S. Iohns Gospell is canonicall I like better of that saying of Marsilius c Dict a Christi five Dei non vera sunt causaliter â—o quod â—iâ—dem testificatur Ecclesia Catholica vero testimonio sed testimonium Ecclesiae causaliter verum est dum dicit dicta christi vera propteâ— veâ—tatem dictorum christi Marsil Desensor pacis part 2. cap. 19. The words of Christ or of God are not therefore made true because the Catholicks Church by a true testimony giveth her testimony unto them but the testimony of the Church is therefore true when shee speaketh the true words of Christ because of the truth of Christs words And as S. Augustine said * August cont epist fundament c. 5. That hee beleevea the Gospell Reply pag. 114. by the authority of the Church so are we to beleeve the Traditions which the Church propoundeth unto us as the word of God 2. I wish our Adversary to consider two things which make the meaning of S. Augustine most evident 1. That S. Augustine speaketh of the primitive Church d Augustinus ibidem Ecclesiam sumit proâ— primitivâ— congregatione fidelium qui Christum viderunt audieruÌ„t sui testes sueruÌ„t Gerson de vitâ spirit lect 2 dâ— S. Augustine saith Gerson in that place taketh the Church for the primitive congregation of the faithfull who did see heare and were witnâ—sses of Christ What is this to the now Roman Church Have you the same power and authority which that Church had Your own Driedo telleth you no. e Ecclesia primitiva propter collegium Apostolorum majoris erat gratiae majorisque authoritatis quam Ecclesia quaenunc est Driedo de dogma l. â— c. 4. The primitive church by reason of the colledge of the apostles was of greater grace and of greater authority then the Church which now is If the Iesuite speake of the Traditions delivered by that Church we refuse them not let him prove this or that to be a Tradition delivered by the Apostles and we will beleeve it but if he speake of the now Roman Church his argument is of no force and as S. Augustine beleeved not the Gospell by the authority of that Church so wee will not beleeve the Traditions taught by her 2. That this was the occasion why he alledged the authority of the Church S. Augustine had beene for nine yeares a Manichee and now having to deale with the Manichees to convert them hee propoundeth unto them the authoritie of the Church to move them even as in the time of his heresie it moved him This he speaketh of the time past I had not beleeved the Gospell if the authority of the Church had not moved me But afterward being converted and made a Bishop he maketh a better confession saying f I am credere coeperam nullo modo te fuisse tributurum tam excellen tem illi scripturae per omnes jam terras authoritatem nisi per ipsam tibi credi per ipsam te quaeri voluâ—sses Aug. confess l. â— c. 5. Now I began to beleeve that thou wouldest not have given so excellent authoritie unto the Scripture it selfe â—ver the whole world but that by it thou wouldest be beleeved and by it thou wouldest be sought This is all that can be gathered out of S. Augustine that the Church is a good motive to perswade men to beleeve the word of God and not that it is such a Doctor that can give such lawes as shal be equall with the word of God S. Augustine confesseth that he had an other motive to perswade him to beleeve besides the authoritie of the Church g Se Carthagine motum esse disputatione cujusdam Elpidij cui Manichâ—i imbeâ—illa responsione restiterint August confess l. 5. c 11. Being at Carthage he was moved to beleeve by the disputation of one Elpidius whose arguments the Manichees were not able to answere But every mover is not a Law-giver h 1. Pet. 3. 1. The honest conversation of the wife may move the husband to beleeve must he therefore beleeve whatsoever she shall say I may aswell inferre thus the testimonie of the Iewes moveth us to beleeve the old Testament therefore we must beleeve their Cabbala their Masoreth and all their unwritten Traditions We are willing to i Math. 22. 21. give unto Cesar the things which are Cesars and unto God the things which are Gods and therefore wee give unto the Church the ministery to allure us and to move us to beleeve the word of God and to the Scripture the dignity and authority to be the onely word of God If the Church were bound not onely to preserve the sacred Reply pag 124 writings but also to deliver the forme of wholesome doctrine contained in them why should she not be likewise bound to preserve the sacred Traditions and to deliver the forme of wholesome doctrine in them contained And why should not we receive them upon her credit 3. If unwritten Traditions had beene committed to her trust there is no doubt but that she ought to preserve them and to deliver them as shee received them to keepe nothing backe but to deliver the whole counsell of God and to teach the forme of wholesome doctrine whether written or unwritten but unwritten Traditions are no wholesome doctrine they are part of that poysonous potion that bewitching doctrine which is in the golden cup of that glorious Religion for outward shew of the Scarlet coloured beast of Rome And though it were true that the Church received unwritten Traditions and that she is bound to teach them yet how can I be assured that this or that is a true Tradition as sure as I am of any written article of my faith That Christ dyed I beleive because the Scripture saith it that this is a Tradition you beleive it because a Father the Fathers or the Church saith it Can a man beleive that testimony which may be false as sure as he beleiveth that cui non potest subesse falsum No humane testimony can beget that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or full assurance which a divine Testimony doth k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Clemons Alex. Strom. 1. 7. Wee regard not an humane testimonie let us confirme the question by the Word of GOD which is the surest demonstration yea the onely demonstration saith Clemens of Alexandria It is l 2. Pet. 1. 19. more sure then the testimonie of men and of Angels Epiphanius layeth downe these for the limites and bounds Reply pag. 125 of our faith * Epiph hâ—res 55. Apostolicall Traditions and the holy Scriptures and the succession of doctrine by which Gods truth is fortified on every side that no man should be deceived with fabulous novelties 4. None of the Ancient were more deceived with
on both sides and yet these and many such things were defended by some of the Fathers 2. We confesse that the Fathers are Patrons of Traditions of such Traditions as we allowed in the * Sect. 1. Diâ—is 4. stateing of the Question and not of Popish Traditions for all our Writers have disputed by the testimonies of the Fathers against unwritten doctrinall Traditions learned Whitaker shall answere for himselfe and for all the rest c Conâ—edimus defensas esse Traditiones à Patribâ—â— sed â—â— modo â—uod dictumest at quod aiâ— Patres non oppugnare illud falâ—um est Whâ—â—akeâ— controvers 1. de verbo Del non scâ—â—pto q. 6. c. 1â— Wee confesse that the Fathers defended Traditions but they were such Traditions as we defend But whereas you say that the Fathers did not oppugne Traditions it is false What now may we thinke of the Iesuite who falsely chargeth both the Fathers and our Writers He verifieth the saying The Monke of all men and the Iesuite above all Monkes is most impudent This babling prater or prating babler may bragge that He hath the consistorie of Antiquitie and that we are The babling upstarts Wee cannot tame his tongue from rayling for as he observeth out of S. Hilary * Hilar. de Triâ—iâ— l 3. Desperation bringeth alwayes with it selfe an unbridled boldnesse and professed impietie leâ—peth beyond the bounds of all shame This is true of him although S. Hilary hath no such words in that booke He deserveth the whetstone for his impudent lying and the cucking-stoole for his shamelesse scoulding And for his excusing of the most reverend Primate to those of his owne side and to the outlandish Doctours hee hath more need to excuse himselfe 1. To those of his owne side who stand for the perfection sufficiencie and prerogative of the sacred Scripture d Scriptura sufficleuter continet doctrinam necessariaâ—â— viatori-Scotus in prolog in 1. sentent â— â— The Scripture saith Scotus sufficiently containeth the doctrine necessary for him that is in his trauell e Sacra Scripturâ— est regula fidei cui nec addere nec subtrahere licet Aquin 〈…〉 ar 9. The holy Scripture saith Aquinas is the rule of faith to which we must not adde and from which we must not substract f Loquitur Deus in Scripturis it a copiose quod non oportet Deum iterum loqui nobis aliquod necessarium 〈◊〉 habeantur Aâ—ton part â— 3. tiâ— 1â— c. 3. God speaketh in the Scripture saith Antoninus and speaketh so copiously that he need not speake againe unto us any thing that is necessary seeing all such things are in the Scriptures Thus God hath made the g Ioh. 1. 5. light tâ— shine in darkenes And how can the Iesuite reconcile himselfe unto these men who denyeth that which they affirme 2. To all the outlandish Doctors who preferreth himselfe all his Countreymen before all other writers of what Countrey soever That they are partakers of that benigne and blessed influence which it pleaseth the heavens to distill into the Irish disposition This is good Divinity The heavens distill this influence of grace The outlandish Doctors are beholding unto him for his good opinion of them in that Ireland or the Irish disposition is made partaker of this influence before all other Countreyes and Countreymen whatsoever This is to make all other places and persons like h â— Sam. 1 21. The mountaines of Gilboa upon which there falleth neither dew nor raine And only Ireland to be like the Reply pag. 112. 1â—3 hill of i Psal 133. â— Hermon the dew whereof watereth other hills And how shall we excuse him in these things 1 Be pleased to remember that he left his native soyle and wenâ— over seas to write this booke by means whereof he leâ—t his wits behinde him and deprived himselfe of this blessed influence if he had remained at home he might perhaps have received some of this benigne influence which it pleaseth the heavens to distill upon his native Climate 2. That those of his owne side speake of the susticiency of Scripture in things necessary in doctrines of salvation but he denyeth the sufficiency of Scripture in rituall points which are the Traditions which he defendeth this will appeare in the examining of his next Section which is SECT IIII. Of the nature and quality of unwritten Traditions 1. THe subject of this and of the former Section is the same and therefore I wil answere the Iesuite as S. Augustine did Iulian upon the like occasion a Replicas quae superiore disputatione consumpta â—unt August cont Iulian. l. 4. c. 18 Thou replyest those things which are already coÌ„futed We * Sect. 2. D. 1. have answered the argument drawne froÌ„ the infallibility authority of the Church yet here againe the Iesuite reneweth it The Catholick Church cannot erre and therefore whatsoever she delivereth Reply p. 1â—4 as a point of faith or an interpretation of any obscure passage of Scripture we must beleeve it as fire as that S. Iohns Gospell is Scripture Sir you reckon without your Hoaste for the Catholicke Church never taught unwritten Traditions And according to your own sayings and tenents unwritten Traditions were of no authority for the first 300. yeares for if it be the Catholicke Church that must give authority to an unwritten Tradition and if the iudgement of the Catholicke Church could not then be heard but in a generall Councell and if there were no generall Councell untill about 300. yeares after Christ what nature or quality what credit or authority had unwritten Traditions untill that time Traditions likewise which are particular not observed by the Catholicke Church but onely in some Churches which by your doctrine are parcels of the unwritten wordâ— must needs want their authoritie because they are not delivered by the judgement of the Catholicke Church Neither is any Church on earth so infallible as that it cannot erre in delivery of a Tradition or exposition of an obscure passage of Scripture The Church which hee meaneth hath erred in many foolish and ridiculous expositions What shall we thinke of that exposition which is so famous among the Franciscans upon this text Revel 7. 2. From the East that is b Ab ortu solis id est decivitaâ—ate Assissij in Oriente posita asceâ—dit Angelus id est Franciscus puritate sanctitate Angelis consiâ—oilis cum signo Dei vivi id est cum stigmatibus Iesu Christi conformit Francis l. 1. from the city Assissium which is in the East the Angell ascended that is Francis like unto the Angels in purity and sanctitie with the Seale of the living God that is with the wounds of Iesus Christ Is this exposition as true as S. Iohns Gospell Besides the testimonie of the Church I have diverse arguments to perswade me that S. Iohns Gospell is canonicall the testimony of the Church is but one argument and such an one
Lord God of Israel hath entred by it And so are many of our Adversaries who defend that shee vowed perpetuall virginity by these words p Luc. 1. 34. How shall this be seeing I know not man That Sunday ought to be kept holie Reply 14. This is a doctrine warranted by the Scripture S. Augustine thinketh that it was tipisied q August epist 1 9. ad â—anâ—aâ— â— 13. by the â—ight day appointed for Circumcision and that it was taught by Christs resurrection upon that day We finde in Scripture that it is called r Revel 1. 10. The Lords day and upon this Ribâ—â— observeth that I may oppose one Iesuite to another that which this Iesuite cannot see Å¿ Videmus hic etiam tempore Apostolorum Sabbathi solemnitatem mutatam esse in dieâ— Dominicum Riber in Apoc. c. 1. We see even here that in the times of the Apostles the Sabboth was changed into the Lords day We finde that day ordained by S. Paul for t 1. Cor. 16. 1. holy duties so Chrysostome Ambrose Remigius Primasius and many others expound that place And we find the observance of it u Act. â—0 7. by the Apostles themselves in preaching of the word and administring of the Sacrament upon that day That Easter day be celebrated alwayes upon Sunday Reply pag. 126. 15. It is a decent order in the Church to observe the feast of Easter and there is no day fitter then Sunday for it but we deny the observing of it upon Sunday upon another day or upon any day to be a point of faith It is only a custome or ordinance of the Church and therefore commeth not within the compasse of this Question x Controversia de die Paschatis diu â—eterum Ecclesias exercuit Socrat. l. 5. c. 22. This Question about Easter day saith Socrates troubled the Churches a long while The Churches of Asia unto which S. Iohn wrote pleaded his Tradition for the 14. day other Churches observed Sunday alledging the Tradition of Peter and Paul at the last it was determined in the Councell of Nice that it should be kept upon Sunday not as if it were a point of faith but because it was a decent order 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c It is a comely order saith Constantine in his letters written to the Bishops that were absent which the Churches of the West North and South doe observe And Epiphanius saith of the Audians y Epiphan in Anacephal They are of the same faith in all things with the Catholicke Church And yet they kept the Passeover as did the Iewes And truely they that deny this to be sound Doctrine cannot Reply possibly have any sure ground for their Faith For how can they prove that they have any word of God at all but onely by the Tradition and authority of holy Church how will they know which bookes of Scripture be canonicall which not c How shall those Heretickes be disproved who denied the Canticles the foure Gospells c How shall those five Gospels attributed unto Thady Thomas Barnabe Bartholomew and Andrew be disproved c but by the authority of the Church Why then doth he condemne such Traditions 16. Such Traditions we condemne not In the stateing of this Question it doth appeare that we allow modum tradendi the manner of delivery of the volume of Gods written word by the authority or testimony of the Church and all this concerneth the manner of deliverie In this the Iesuite not onely belyeth our Doctrine but also shrinketh from the Question hee should prove that unwritten Traditions are the word of God but he goeth about to prove that by an unwritten Tradition namely by the authority and testimony of the Church a man may know that there is a word of God and which bookes are the word of God and which are not All Questions are not to be disputed of saith z Aristot l. 1. Topic. c. 9. Aristotle Of all things this is most sure and ought to be beleeved that the Scripture is the word of God As he that a Hebâ— 11. 6. Will come to God must first beleeve that God is so he that will come to the knowledge of Gods word must first beleeve that there is a word of God and that the Scripture is this word To doubt of this is to deny a most sure principle and to dispute of this is to take away the very ground of this Question If this Question were given Whether Heaven covereth all things if the opponent should argue thus It doth not cover it selfe therefore it doth not cover all things Wee would judge him a sillie Sophister The trifling Iesuite disputeth after the same manner The Scripture doth not discover all points of faith because it doth not discover it selfe to be the word of God But this point is excepted by the Question it selfe for when the Scripture saith b 1. Cor. 15. 27. That all things are put downe under him it is manifest that he is excepted which did put downe all things under him So when we say that the Scripture declareth all points of faith it is manifest that this is excepted it needeth not declare it selfe to be the Scripture or the word of God As the first good is to beloved for it selfe so the first truth is to be beleeved for it selfe saith c Aquinas in Prolog in sent Aquinas The Scriptures are accounted among those things which are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be beleeved for themselves yea they are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 most worthy of beleife being like Principles in an Art which oportet discentem credere the Learner must beleeve as d Basil in Psal 115. Bafill saith So that in this disputation this must be datum a thing granted and taken pro concesso that the Scripture is the word of God e August Confessâ—l 6. c. 5. Heare them not saith S. Augustine who demaund How doe you know the Scripture to be the word of God for that is a thing to be beleeved Yet we wil be content to answere this foolish demaund and to shew by what meanes we know which bookes are canonicall and which are counterfeit We know the Scriptures to be the word of God by those arguments which we finde in them They neede not testify for themselves but it is to be presupposed as a pracognitum that they are the word of God yet they beare witnesse for themselves The Scripture is a witnesse to it selfe saith f Testis est ipsa Scriptura Bellarm de verb Dei â— 1 c. 2. Bellarmine g Humana dicta argumentis testibus cgeâ—â— Dâ—i auâ—em sermo ipse sibi testis est Salvian de gubernatâ— Dei Humane sayings saith Salvian neede arguments and witnesses but the word of God is a witnesse to it selfe h Scotus in prolog in l. 1. sent q. â— Scotus proveth it by eight arguments taken out of the Scripture it selfe the
because they are all one with those things that be expressely written As for example Whether Children shal be baptised or no Or whether the baptised by Heretickes shal be rebaptised or no We read no expresse commandement nor evident practise either way yet by sound consequence these points may be determined out of the Scripture And of this in this testimony S. Augustine disputeth against the Dâ—â—atists Reply pag. 14â— The third is against the Non-conformists * Aug Epist â—â— ad Casul In thâ—se things whereof the Scripture hath deliveâ—â—◠〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of Gods people and the 〈◊〉 of our Aâ—â—â—estâ—râ— are to be held for a law In this he disputeth of the rites customes or constitutions of the Church and specially of the Saturdayes fast concerning which in the same Epistle â—e giveth this advice Let the â—aith of the universâ—ll Church â—â— one alâ—hough the unity of faith be â—â—â—nded upon with diverse observations by the 〈◊〉 thâ—â— which is true in the faith is â—â— way 〈◊〉 Here he distinguisheth these observations of the Church from â—â—th â—â—ith is one they are diverse they are not of faith but attend upon faith So that they are to bee held for 〈◊〉 yet not for the law of faith which is of divine â—ight universall and bindeth all but as the law of man which is but of humane right particular to some places like the Law of Gâ—â—all kinde and bindeth not all like the by-lâ—wes of a Corporation The fourth testimony which he citeth out of Augustine I finde it in his 118. Epistle and it is * Sect 2. Div. 6. formerly answered * Aug ad Inquisit laâ—â—aâ— l. 1. c. 1 All those things which we hold without writing onely by unwritten Tradition were commended and ordained either by the Apostles themselves or by generall Councells All such things are not Doctrinall but Rituall Traditions not points of faith but orders and constitutions for the Church This appeareth both by the words allâ—adged and by the subsequent words in the same Epistle Wee see in the words alleadged S. Augustine cannot well tell upon whom to father such things but he leaveth it doubtfull it may be they were from the Apostles and it may be they were ordained first of all by generall Coâ—â—â—lls But all points of faith are elder then the eldest Councell The Iesuite himselfe telleth us out of Aâ—hanasius * Pag. 140. It is not nâ—wâ—dayes that our faith received its beginning but it is derived from the Lord himselfe And Athanasius himselfe was one of the first generall Councell That of Gerson iâ— most câ—rtaine c Nec Papa neâ— generale Concilium potest facere aliquid esse de side quod antè non â—uâ—t Gerson part 1 de err cirâ—a pâ—aecept Non Occides Neither the Pâ—pâ— â—or any generall Councell can make that to be a point of faith which was not so before And in the words immediately following S. Augustine declareth what such things were as were delivered without writing As the Passion reâ—â—â—rection and ascensâ—â—â— of our Lord and the descâ—nsion of the holy Ghost are yâ—â—rely solemnely celebrated These Feastâ— put us in minde of greater things but the Feasts themselves aâ—â— to be accounted but as rites and ordinances belonging to the Church The fifâ— is against the Doâ—atists and it is like wise * Sect. 4. Div. â— formerly answered The Apostles have not commanâ—ded any thing in this poinâ— but that customâ— which was opposed unto Cyprian must be held to have taken its originall from their Tradition The point of rebaptization is the point of which he dispâ—teth concerning which we oft declared the judgment of S. Augustinâ— to be this that the Apostles expressely commaunded nothing in this point and yet that this point may be determined by sound inference out of the holy Scripture The sixt is this He would not beleeve the Gospell it selfe but that the authority of the Church moved him The summe of our former * Sect. â— Div. 2 answere unto this is this S. Augustine spake this of the time when he was a Manichee but after his conversion he maketh a better confession He speaketh of the primitive Church not of the now Roman Church That power which he ascribeth unto the Church is to be a mover to perswade us to beleeve not to be a law-giver to coyne Articles of our beleefe The 7th is likewise * Sect. 4. Div. 8 answered Although we have no certaine example hereof out of Scripture yet we hold the truth of the Scripture in this thing when wee doe that which now pleaseth the universall Church The Example which is sought for is an example how those were received when they returned to the Church who were baptised by Heretickes whether they were rebaptised or no We confesse the Scripture giveth no example how they were received but none can inferre because the Scripture containeth not an example in this point therefore it containeth not the Doctrine of this point The 8th is likewise * Sect 2. Div. â— formerly answered This neither thou nor I can fiâ—de plainly and evidently in the Scripture This is against the Dâ—natists in the same point and I returne the same answere This that is an example of this how they were received into the Church that were baptised by the Heretickes neither thou nor I can finde in Scripture Yea we confesse the point of Doctrine is not written plainely evidently and expressely word for word but by sound consequence it is deduced from the Scripture And now let the understanding Reader judge of the reason that moved the Iesuite to object all those testimoniâ—s which were formerly answered surely it was onely to make his promise good to heape up a number without any regard of their nature He mustereth his testimoniâ—s as some Captaines when their companies are not full muster their Souldiours presenting some of them three or foure times over The 9th is this * Aug. l. â— cont Crese â— I receive not that which Cyprian held because Reply p. 14â— it is not received by the Church And I receive not that which is held by the Iesuite because it is not received by S. Augustine Doe I therefore hold unwritten Traditions Cyprian held rebaptization Augustine held the contrary and confuteth him by the authority of the Church but doth the use of one meanes exclude the power of another Because he confuted him by the authoritie of the Church could he not therefore confute him by the authority of Scripture Cyprian would have this question to be tried by the Scripture f Cypâ—ian epist 74. ad Pompâ—ium whence saith he is this Tradition Is is descended from the authoritie of our Lord and the Gospell or doth it come from the Acts or Epistles of the Apostles And a little after Let us goe to the fountaine to the Evangelicall and Apostolicall Tradition This is so evident that Bellarmine confesseth g Bellar de verbo non script l.
4. c. 8. He speaketh of the Scripture And S. Augustin approveth of his admonition h Aug. de bapt cont Donat. l. 5. c. 26. That which Cyprian admonisheth us That we should have recourse to the fountaine to wit to the Apostolicall Tradition that is best and ought to be done So that in S. Augustines judgment this point may be determined by the Scriptures He accounted the testimonie of the Church one good meanes but the testimony of the Scripture the best meanes to judge it by The 10th is this * Aug. in Psal 57. The truth surely harboureth in the belly Reply p. 148. of the Church The truth is while Christ is the head and husband of the Church truth must needs harbour in the belly of that Church but if Antichrist become the head husband of a Church truth cannot harbour in the belly of that Church The man of sinne the Sonne of perdition doth set as God in the Roman Church which was once â— The â— Thes 1. 4. temple of God He equalizeth all his Decrees and his Cathedrall voyce with the voyce of God sounding in the Scriptures She was along while like a woman sicke of a timpany or some swelling disease and at length brought forth a monster k Nec Deus es nec homo quasi nevter es inter utruâ—que Clemen proem in Glos Neither God nor man but a nevter betweene both And this monster is the Father of this monstrous doctrine of unwritten Traditions The 11th followeth * Aug. epist 56 The whole height of authority and light of reason for the reparation of mankinde consisteth Reply only in the saving name of Christ in his one onely Church As we give unto God the things which are Gods so to the Church the power belonging to her that is the supreame power and absolute authority unto Godâ— and under God a subordinate power and ministeriall authoritâ—â— unto the Church And this is all which S. Augustinâ— meaneth He addeth the 12th * Aug cont Fausâ— Manich l. 11. c. 2. Thou seest of how great forcâ— in Reply p. 149. thâ—â— matter the authoritie of the Catholicke Church is which by the orderly succession of Bishops from the most assured soaâ—â— of the Apostles unto these our dayes and by the consent of so many nations and people is confirmed As in all things wee give due respect unto the authoritie of the Catholicke Church so likewise we doe in this point of which S. Augustine speaketh which is of the truth of holy Scripture that it is the word of God We confesse the authority of the Catholicke Church is of great fâ—rce to confirme our faith in beleeving which is the Scripture and what is the true meaning of it yet her authority extendeth not it selfe so farre as to adde unwritten Traditions to the Scripture or to give any other interpretation of the Scriptures then is contained in them Her authority is one meanes but noâ— the onely meanes to confirme this point for in the same place S. Augustine sheweth that there are other meanes likewise as Searching into other copies of the Scripture and comparing the copies with the originall And yet this is nothing to the Roman Church it is not the Catholicke Church in it there is no orderly successioâ— if there be it is not from the most assured seats of the Apostles but from a doubtfull seat of an Apostle in it the consent of nations and people is not to be heard but onely the voyce of the Pope is to be regarded And to make up his Bakers douzen hee concludeth with this * Aug. cont Iul Pelag. l. 2. cap. 1. It is necessary that all Christian people preferre the judgment Reply pag. 149 and testimonies of holy Fathers before your Novelties and choose rather to adheare unto them then unto you I should but slander you with an action of truth if I should say Popery is a Novelty Vnwritten Traditions are novelties We have ever preferred the testimonies and judgements of holy Fathers before such Novelties and if wee will adheare unto them we cannot adheare unto unwritten Traditions You preferre Novelties before the judgements and testimonies of the holy Fathers The Popes Cathedrall voyce is preferred before the judgements and testimonies of all Councels and holy Fathers and this is a Noveltie never heard of untill it was hatcht of late noâ— much aboue an 100. yeares since in the Lateran Councell l Melch Canus Ioc theolog l. â— c. 5. In generall Councels saith a flatterer of the Pope matters are not to be judged by the number of suffrages but by the weight Pondus autem dat summi Pontific is authoritas but the authority of the Pope maketh up the weight So that among the Fathers and in Councells hee hath not onely a negative voyce to stop that which they conclude but even a divine voyce farre transcendent aboue them all As Pharaohs leane kine eat up the fat so hath he eaten up the authoritie of Church and Fathers And as Iacke Cadâ— would have all written law banished that the law might proceede out of his mouth even so dealeth the Pope Thus we have sifted your â—eapâ— and finde it but chaffe and cast up your number and finde it nothing but cyphers The testimonies are weapons whereby Heretickes and Schismaticks such as deny the true doctrine of the Church may be wounded and put to flight but unto us who defend S. Augustines doctrine they are defensive and not offensive And if dropping of testimonies out of S. Augustine might beare away the bell I dare hazard the game upon it to drop three for one but I dare not take that liberty unto my selfe as the Iesuite doth to be both Respondent and Opponent least I should be censured for gresling from the right rule of answering wherefore I tie my selfe to answer those testimonies which follow * Chrysol ser â—5 S. Peter Chrysologus A Christian minde knoweth not Reply p. 149. how to dispute against such things as are strengthned by the Tradition of the Fathers 21. The same Christian minde is in us for we dispute not against such things Chrysologus his sermon was upon that text of S. Iohn * Ioh. â— 1. There was a Feast of the Iewes This gave him occasion to discourse of holy dayes and specially of such fistivall dayes as were strengthned by the tradition of the Fathers and long continuance These we account as ordinances of the Church and give that respect unto them as is due but we dare not give them that authoritie which belongeth to the word of God as to be points of Reply p. 149. faith or necessary doctrines S. Leo affirmeth * Leo serm â— Thâ—t true learning doth acknowledge and piety doth embrace that which Tradition hath long since dâ—creed and custome hath established * Leo de Iejun Pentecost Neither is it to bee doubted but whatsoever is observed by the
Tradition of the Church and notwithstanding all your corruptions of the writings of the ancient yet there remaineth enough to finde out the deceit of unwritten Traditions Let the Scripture have the first place which Vincentius assigneth unto it that so God the Father of our faith may have the first audience theâ— let the Tradition of the Church come up in the reare to back that which the Scripture teacheth But the Iesuite would have all done by the Church and nothing by the Scripture For our Saviour fore-seeing the presumptuous and rasâ— Reply pag. 160 boldnesse which some would take upon them to interpret the meaning of his written word hath ordained that his Church should be provided of a singular meanes to finde out and to declare the true meaning thereof being alwayes endâ—ed with that supâ—rnaturall gift which our Saviour imparted unto his Disciples when * Luâ— 24. 45. he opened their understanding that they might understand the Scriptures That which our Saviour fore-saw we see in you A presumptuous and â—ash boldnesse in interpreting Scripture Christ saith of himself All power is given unto me in Heaven and on earth This is presumptuously applyed to the Pope S. Iohâ— saith I saw another Angell come from the East which had the seale of the living God This is rashly boldly applyed to S. Francis And yet the Church interpreteth both these places of Christ The Church hath his supernaturall gift but what Church f Tho. Wald. l. 2. doct fid entiq c. 19. Not the African Church as Donatus said nor the Roman Church as the Iesuite meaneth But the Catholick Church of Christ dispersed over the world As Thomas Waldensis saith And where wilt thou finde or how wilt thou know which is this Church The author of the imperfect Worke on Matthew hom 49. answereth The Scripture is the onely way whereby to know which is the true Church of Christ And againe The Lord knowing that in the last dayes there would be such a confusion commandeth Christians to fly onely vnto the Scriptures For if they doe otherwise They shall perish saith he not knowing which is the true Church by that meanes shall fall into the abomination of desolation which shal stand in the holy places of the Church He sheweth that the Scripture must not be interpreted by privat imagination privat fancie or privat spirit Can he charge us with this Interpretation of Scripture is a g 1. Cor. 12. gift of the spirit He that denyeth this is an Heretick The same spirit that inspired them must interpret them This spirit which like the h Ioh. 3. 8. winde bloweth where it listeth may blow on private men Private men having this spirit may discerne the sense and meaning of the Scriptures aswell as the Priest either grant this or else condemne i Act 18. Apollos Aquilâ— and Priscilla who are commended in Scripture for this yea condemne the Homilies of Leâ— the Emperor commended by Gretzer in his edition of those Homilies or else grant this that private men may discerne the sense and meaning of the Scriptures When private men through the helpe of Gods â—pirit doe discerne the sense and meaning of the Scriptures and deliver the sense intended by the Holy Ghost will you call this privat imagination privat fancie privat spirit It is the doctrin of the Devil of Antichrist which possesseth our Adversaries perswadeth them that their doctrine must not be examined nor their Spirit tryed but whatsoever Interpretation their Church that is the Pope giveth of any part of Scripture be the Interpretation never so private never heard of before never so contrary to the exposition of the Fathers yet it must be believed as sure as that S. Iohns Gospell is Scripture And neither S. Iohns Gospell nor any part of Scripture is by them accounted true because it is written but it is accounted true because it so pleaseth the Pope What then he alledgeth out of S. Augustin may fitter be aâ—plyed unto them then unto us * Aug Ep. 222. They are Heretickes not because they contemne not the Scriptures for so S. Augustine is to be read but because they understand them not aright Againe * Aug. tract 18. in Ioh. Good holy Scripture is not rightly understood what is wrongfully understood is audaciously affirmed by them And againe * Aug. cont Faustum This doth not please them because it is written but it must therefore be true Scripture because it pleaseth them If S. Augustine were now alive to â—ee the doctrine practice of the Roman Church he could not more fitly expresse it then he doth in these sayings His third digression is about the translation of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Wheresoever the Scripture speaketh against certaine Traditions Reply p. 161. of the Iewes partly fcivolous partly repugnant to the Law of God there all the English translations follow the Greek exactly never omitting the word Tradition For example Mat. 15. Contrarywise wheresoever the holy Scripture speaketh in commendation of Traditions there all their Translations agreâ— not to follow the Greek but for Tradition they translate ordinance or instruction as 2. Thes 2. 15. c. any word else rather then Tradition Insomuch that Bezatranslateth it Traditam 2. Thess 2. 15. doctrinam the doctrine delivered putting the singular number for the plurall and adding Doctrine of his owne 3. This is transcribed out of Gregory Martin a learned divine as he stileth him who is censured by one of his own side for an k The treatise of renunciat ignorant divine But all his geese are swans as the proverb is Asinus asinum scabiâ— one good turn requires an other he could doe no lesse then afford him some worthy title who stored him with such a deal of worthy matter He harpeth much upon Allour Translations and yet I know but only of one TranslatioÌ„ the Bishops as they call it which was published by authority untill after the daies of cavilling Martin As that translatioÌ„ doth justifie our doctrin so we are able to justifie that all other our translations in this point from the slanders of this Martin We confesse the fact in those places cited by Martin the Translators have not englished 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Traditions D. Fulk who hath discovered Martins discovery to be an heap of senselesse cavillations confesseth the same This I observe to free that learned Dr * yet M. Fulk saith it is found there If he give not us an instance let him give himselfe the lie from this marginal note in which setting aside all good manners the he is given him He hath answered for himselfe in his confutation of Martins discoverie in these words I say there is no law nor statute made against it but the word Tradition may be used by our Translators This is no more then if I should say Papists may be suffred to live as good subjects not